I, Claudius was a excellent series. I recommend it highly. I've seen it available on DVD. Much lower production values, but a great story and great cast. Seeing young Livia here and imagining her growing into the old, scheming hag Livia of Claudius was quite a treat.

Seeing young Livia here and imagining her growing into the old, scheming hag Livia of Claudius was quite a treat.
Don't need to rent a DVD to see that -- I've been married 25 years...

I've come to expect; if it's a top quality series it's going to be cancelled.
Rome was the best yet but the fact that every principle character in it was a cold blooded murderer was a bit disquieting.
In America today hitmen and serial killers seem to dominate our entertainment. I sure hope we're not leading the world in that category.

I've come to expect; if it's a top quality series it's going to be cancelled.
Rome was the best yet but the fact that every principle character in it was a cold blooded murderer was a bit disquieting.
In America today hitmen and serial killers seem to dominate our entertainment. I sure hope we're not leading the world in that category.
Off Topic...
If you want to see a really really great show that is "Good" in nature checkout This American Life that will be airing soon on Showtime...it is based on the Radio show from WBEZ Chicago...

I've come to expect; if it's a top quality series it's going to be cancelled.
Rome was the best yet but the fact that every principle character in it was a cold blooded murderer was a bit disquieting.
In America today hitmen and serial killers seem to dominate our entertainment. I sure hope we're not leading the world in that category.

That's why it's a show intended for "Adults". "Adults" know the difference between fantasy and real life. "Adults" aren't infulenced by "Fantasy", and don't try to mimmick what they see on TV in real life.

I've heard it said that if aliens are monitoring our television before paying us a visit, they'd think that 1 out of every 2 Americans is either:
a) a cop
b) a doctor
c) a game or reality show contestant.

Twenty years ago, you would have had to add... d) a private investigator.

That's stupid, you are believing the BS the studio's are telling you. The people who download that stuff wouldn't pay for it in the first place. I find nothing more annoying then going to a theater and having to watch an advertisement telling me that stealing movies online is bad... I just paid $9 for to go here and studios are going to lecture me even though I'm being a good consumer.

HBO has gotten a lot more conservative and scared towards it's ratings, so it will not shell out big money for shows that J6P won't understand or appreciate (Carnivale & Deadwood).

Stupid?....Hmmmm, I always thought comparing apples to oranges was stupid myself. :rolleyes:

How good of a copy of the movie 300 do you think is available on the internet right now?.....answer...not that good.

However, I could find a pristine digitlal copy of ANYTHING that airs on HBO within a day of it airing (in near DVD quality and with 5.1 suround sound).

Nice rant though .... :rolleyes:

Someting tells me that we have internet downloading to blame for the loss of these great shows :( .
LOL... yeah, that must be it!

Which production company do you work for?

LOL... yeah, that must be it!

Which production company do you work for?

I work for Yoursarcasmisweaksause Pictures Inc. :D

I think this thread is losing its focus.

Anybody ready to hazard a guess as to how Vorenus and Pullo end up? Alive, dead, happy, miserable? I don't know about Vorenus, but I'd like to see Pullo do allright. After all, I think he had the best line I can remember:" I know we got off on the wrong foot, me killing your husband and all." Quoting from memory, please feel free to correct.

Anybody ready to hazard a guess as to how Vorenus and Pullo end up? Alive, dead, happy, miserable?

I'm gonna guess that they end up as we all do, dead....... :D

I'm gonna guess that they end up as we all do, dead....... :D
Hee, hee. Ok wise guy, I meant at the end of the series.

Stupid?....Hmmmm, I always thought comparing apples to oranges was stupid myself. :rolleyes:

How good of a copy of the movie 300 do you think is available on the internet right now?.....answer...not that good.

However, I could find a pristine digitlal copy of ANYTHING that airs on HBO within a day of it airing (in near DVD quality and with 5.1 suround sound).

Nice rant though .... :rolleyes:

And yet you don't bother to read the part where I say those who steal wouldn't have bought it anyway. Wait a month and I'm sure you can get the dvd screener of 300 which will be pristine enough.

That's if you feel like waiting for the long ass downloads even with broadband and torrents for movies/shows.

There is no need to harass paying customers at the movies about theft... they already made their choice . Just like the guy who doesn't pay for HBO and will download stuff. He isn't going to all of a sudden change his mind, and his theft is still a tear drop in HBO's profits.

I don't remember the figure, but I believe HBO's profits was north of 1 Billion ("with a B"). They have a change of attitude the last few years of quickly scaling down costs by cutting newer expensive shows before they run their course (Carnivale & Rome) and trying to make J6P as happy as possible by going with cheaper less challenging programming (cutting Carnivale, OAR policy, Lucky Louie). If they want to keep making shows like Lucky Louie to pull in more J6P, they shouldn't close a blind eye to using some of that profit to keep their current or former subscribers who expect a bit more from their programming. Maybe J6P might even give those shows a chance if they are on for awhile.

But you are free to keep the flock of sheep attitude and keep eating the lines they feed you. :rolleyes:

Except that HBO is still "rolling in the dough". They made over a billion (yes, with a "b") in profit last year even after paying for the blockbuster series 'Rome' and 'Deadwood'. They've just gotten cheap, that's all, or the price of keeping an HBO executive happy and well fed has really gone up. It's sad, because as has been said again and again, if they don't do this kind of television, who will?

Hope everybody is enjoying 'Rome' and these (promised) last 4 hours of 'Deadwood' that they say they're going to produce, because when they're gone, we'll probably not see their like again.

Yeah, I seem to remember something from a college marketing class; about how a company will spend big money to sort of 'bull' their way into a market and gain market share. Once you have market share, you then go to a maintenance phase where you kind of coast on your superior position and begin recouping expenses, reaping better profits. I've probably mangled that explanation quite a bit, but I think HBO is doing something similar. They achieved a name as *the* premiere original series channels, cutting edge entertainment "It's not TV, It's HBO"

Now they probable figure they can cut Rome, Deadwood etc, Sopranos is gone, SFU is gone, and instead of replacing them they can fill in with 'Lucky Louie' or the 'The Comeback' for a couple of years, reap big profits, spend little money. Essentially hope that the reputation they earned will carry them for a few years. That and the influence of shows like American Idol must have also convinced them that its possible to draw huge audiences while spending very little. It's like trading in your stocks and bonds and buying a bunch of Scratch-n-Win tickets, hoping that you'll hit paydirt on just one or two cheap tickets.

And yet you don't bother to read the part where I say those who steal wouldn't have bought it anyway. Wait a month and I'm sure you can get the dvd screener of 300 which will be pristine enough.

Do you have a doctorate in assumption and and LACK of logic and debate skills? Because I did not respond to a particular "point" of yours, you jump to the conclusion that I did not read it..... :rolleyes: ....quite the assumption.

Those who steal wouldn't have bought it anyway????? Why is that? Says who?
If I chose to, not only could I download any HBO show in good quality the day after it aired, I could burn it to disk and archive it. Thus, I could avoid subcribing to HBO ...AND paying a premium price for the dvd set down the road.

ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO TRY TO TELL ME THAT THERE ARE NOT PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING THIS WHO WOULD EITHER SUBCRIBE OR BUY/RENT THE DVD SET IF THEY DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEAL IT? :rolleyes:

That is like saying that people who steal cable would chose to not to watch/pay for cable if they did not have the OPPORTUNITY to steal it.

IMO, one the of the few points of yours that is sound is that the studios effort to curb illegal downloads is futile. I am not debating this. I am simply saying that illegal downloads are cutting into profits and influencing decision making.

But you are free to keep the flock of sheep attitude and keep eating the lines they feed you.

Feel free to continue making condescending assumpions and using flawed logic to support invalid arguments.

Anybody ready to hazard a guess as to how Vorenus and Pullo end up? Alive, dead, happy, miserable? I don't know about Vorenus, but I'd like to see Pullo do allright. After all, I think he had the best line I can remember:" I know we got off on the wrong foot, me killing your husband and all." Quoting from memory, please feel free to correct.
I bet Vorenus dies, Pullo lives

Do you have a doctorate in assumption and and LACK of logic and debate skills? Because I did not respond to a particular "point" of yours, you jump to the conclusion that I did not read it..... :rolleyes: ....quite the assumption.

Those who steal wouldn't have bought it anyway????? Why is that? Says who?
If I chose to, not only could I download any HBO show in good quality the day after it aired, I could burn it to disk and archive it. Thus, I could avoid subcribing to HBO ...AND paying a premium price for the dvd set down the road.

ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO TRY TO TELL ME THAT THERE ARE NOT PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING THIS WHO WOULD EITHER SUBCRIBE OR BUY/RENT THE DVD SET IF THEY DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STEAL IT? :rolleyes:

That is like saying that people who steal cable would chose to not to watch/pay for cable if they did not have the OPPORTUNITY to steal it.

IMO, one the of the few points of yours that is sound is that the studios effort to curb illegal downloads is futile. I am not debating this. I am simply saying that illegal downloads are cutting into profits and influencing decision making.



Feel free to continue making condescending assumpions and using flawed logic to support invalid arguments.


Your assumption is that once the option to steal is gone the offender will go straight and reform their wicked ways. That's very optimistic, but having witness stealers/cheaters get cut down on one avenue they tend to look for another path or just do without.

Not that it would be easy to get an accurate demographic of who would be stealing (not something one would be that willing to admit to), but I'd say it would be a safe assumption (your word of the day ;) ) to say that most of the large scale offenders would be kids (high school/college) and those without much disposable income, which would also include the former group. That isn't to say that those with a higher level of disposable income can't be included in this, but are less likely as they have the resources to say they don't want the hassle swindling HBO out of a monthly fee or their way too high dvd prices (I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one).

I agree that if the option of stealing was withdrawn then there is a percentage of offenders that would determine that it is worth their money to invest in their hobby. But do you really think that that group is enough for HBO to notice in new subscriptions/dvd sales? I think you would have to better look at the initial attitude and reasoning for someone who is ripping off HBO. Making an assumption, I'd say they would tend to possess an attitude of "i don't give a crap" or "I'm not paying for that attitude" then they would "well it's free so why not".

There isn't an apples to apples comparison to stealing hbo programs and stealing cable. It's close, but I still see HBO shows as much easier to do without then cable as a whole.

You want to so easily disregard my opinion and claim my assumptions are off the wall, but fail to really support any of your "points" with anything more then opinion.

So you have no problem downloading a show the next day and then burning it to disc. Ok, so you think there is a large enough contingent of J6P that has broadband, disc space, burners, time and effort to download and burn, as well as the knowledge of where to find the files and what to do with them. Easy for us to do, but do you really have that much faith in J6P?

My problem with your point of view, aside from your attitude with my attitude, is that you assume HBO is merely protecting it's revenue by canceling its assets (programs) so that they avoid an epidemic of piracy. I can't think of anything HBO has done to support that. I tried, really. I'm not just blatantly ignoring your assumption.

But from viewing HBO's stance toward things like OAR, quick cancellation of expensive shows which tend to be period pieces geared towards a slower pace, and them even considering showing something like Lucky Louie (I'm sure people like this... just not me) I feel it is clear they are positioning themselves more like a standard network then a premium channel. Thankfully they haven't degraded themselves to reality tv or american idol, but I can see a clear business plan. I can't blame them. Why continue with expensive shows which don't bring in much revenue? But I see no business reasoning which would cause a knee jerk reaction to what amounts to small losses of revenue due to piracy which may or may not be able to recoup .

Honestly, this is a stupid argument on both our parts. We weren't in the conference calls, board meetings, or whatever and they have announced nothing to support either claim.

I'll cancel HBO because I see this cancellation of the blockbusters as a trend, not a matter of replacing one blockbuster for another. For whatever reason, the time of the massive scale HBO drama is drawing to a close. These shows made sense 4-5 years ago and HBO was rolling in the dough. Then they started cutting these big buzz worthy shows. When they're gone, all that's left is HBO as movie channel, and it's pretty much a second rate movie channel at that.
It's not vindictiveness, or sending a message. When the food's good at a restaurant, I eat there. If the food ceases to be good, I go elsewhere. Our relationship is that of consumer/merchant, we're not friends, I don't owe HBO any loyalty.


So true. Sopranos ending this year too. No deadwood, no rome, no sopranos. I watch big love, but it's not worth keeping HBO for. The only thing that will keep me watching HBO is Entourage now. Maybe I'll just subscribe the three months that it is on a year. Oh well

FX has taken HBO's place as the edgy network and the channel that offers great original programming.. The stuff I see on FX.. I never thought I would ever see on a cable channel. Plus the shows are great.

speaking of FX, when is Rescue Me coming back? dare I say best show on TV :)

I think all of us are upset about HBO not making any more blockbuster series. But even more upsetting is that we know there is no other movie channel doing it. And no where else to go if you cancel HBO. HBO still has movies and Boxing and smaller series. Its a shame but showtime is no better. :(

showtime does have dexter

Your assumption is that once the option to steal is gone the offender will go straight and reform their wicked ways.

Not true. My argument is that because there exists a way to steal this content from the comfort of your home, many people choose to steal it instead of subscribing to it. Internet downloading is in the moral "grey area" for many people. I know several "30 somethings" who make a decent living who do it. Hell....I'll admit it... I have done it before :( .

So you have no problem downloading a show the next day and then burning it to disc. Ok, so you think there is a large enough contingent of J6P that has broadband, disc space, burners, time and effort to download and burn, as well as the knowledge of where to find the files and what to do with them. Easy for us to do, but do you really have that much faith in J6P?

For the record, I do have a moral problem with doing this. I also run an HD front projector to a 96" screen (anything less than HD does not look good :D ).

These shows that are being cancelled are not shows that appeal to "J6P" . And no...I have very little faith in J6P :D . What I do have "faith" in is many peoples inherent desire to "beat the system" Hell..it's even an easy thing to rationalize. Have you seen the prices on the DVD sets for an HBO series? ( I own several for the record :D ). I have to pay X amount a month for the HBO package when I only watch the HD channel????????

My problem with your point of view, aside from your attitude with my attitude, is that you assume HBO is merely protecting it's revenue by canceling its assets (programs) so that they avoid an epidemic of piracy. I can't think of anything HBO has done to support that. I tried, really. I'm not just blatantly ignoring your assumption.

First of all...I "qualified" what I said with the words "something tells me". In other words, it was not an assumption. Secondly , I will admit that it was a little "baitish". I should have chosen my words more carefully. I believe it is very possible that internet downloading was a factor in cancelling big budget shows on HBO.

Honestly, this is a stupid argument on both our parts. We weren't in the conference calls, board meetings, or whatever and they have announced nothing to support either claim.

What's been stupid is us attacking eachother personally. For my part, I apologize. I am glad the "debate" has gone to higher ground :D .

showtime does have dexter

Weeds is good as well.

Why is the "horse trader" pulling his cart by hand?

showtime does have dexter
Dexter does not compare to the Sopranos, Deadwood or Rome sorry. Different ballgame. Im sure HBO will have lower budget fare as well.

Not true. My argument is that because there exists a way to steal this content from the comfort of your home, many people choose to steal it instead of subscribing to it. Internet downloading is in the moral "grey area" for many people. I know several "30 somethings" who make a decent living who do it. Hell....I'll admit it... I have done it before :( .



For the record, I do have a moral problem with doing this. I also run an HD front projector to a 96" screen (anything less than HD does not look good :D ).

These shows that are being cancelled are not shows that appeal to "J6P" . And no...I have very little faith in J6P :D . What I do have "faith" in is many peoples inherent desire to "beat the system" Hell..it's even an easy thing to rationalize. Have you seen the prices on the DVD sets for an HBO series? ( I own several for the record :D ). I have to pay X amount a month for the HBO package when I only watch the HD channel????????



First of all...I "qualified" what I said with the words "something tells me". In other words, it was not an assumption. Secondly , I will admit that it was a little "baitish". I should have chosen my words more carefully. I believe it is very possible that internet downloading was a factor in cancelling big budget shows on HBO.



What's been stupid is us attacking eachother personally. For my part, I apologize. I am glad the "debate" has gone to higher ground :D .

Oh when I was in college most things were fair game to be downloaded for me... I had some moral objections to it, but not like I do now. But looking back on it, I could have done without downloading games/movies.

I stopped buying HBO dvd's after a few seasons of the Sopranos. God they are so expensive. I don't see how they can justify the premium, and would imagine if they leveled the prices they would sell way more. I guess they are doing well enough though. If HBO started to release more on HD-DVD I'd start buying again though... if I can catch a sale. HBO does need to get more then one HD channel, at the same price, since I'm sure most of us are like you and only watch the HD channel. I know I'm the same way.

Apology accepted, I shouldn't have been so confrontational either, sorry.

Now that I know there is only one episode left, I feel really bad to see this show ending. Understanding how expensive it is and seeing how the characters have really created a world like no other, well it's just too bad.

Tonight's episode was better than most in that it's reaching that big finale. The set designers are just incredible.

If they could just drop the distracting English accents. It's not good for consistency.

Anybody ready to hazard a guess as to how Vorenus and Pullo end up? Alive, dead, happy, miserable? I don't know about Vorenus, but I'd like to see Pullo do allright. After all, I think he had the best line I can remember:" I know we got off on the wrong foot, me killing your husband and all." Quoting from memory, please feel free to correct.

It's quite odd the love/hate relationship you get with these characters who if anything are inconsequential to the Roman Empire. But somehow you want them to be okay, as if the common man can have a good time of it.

The show's shooting is just tremendous. The best work I've seen in HD.

If they could just drop the distracting English accents. It's not good for consistency.

Well, they're going to speak English (made for America and the UK) and they're going to have to have some sort of accent--American, British, Irish, Scottish, something. Might as well be British: you have the very flowery nobility sounding British, and the plain working class sounding British, and the cockney sounding lower class British--all pretty much recognizable by most people. It works for me.

This show certainly could have played out over two or three more seasons, plenty of interesting stuff following some key points of history.

After this episode it just reinforces my belief that Pullo ROCKS!. :D

He IS the man.

BTW, Pullo does know that Vorenus did not kill his wife, right? I'm guessing he's not telling the kids this fact in order to spare them the thought that mom committed suicide.

I can see this show ending with Vorenus and Pullo having to kill each other in battle.

After this episode it just reinforces my belief that Pullo ROCKS!. :D

He IS the man.

BTW, Pullo does know that Vorenus did not kill his wife, right? I'm guessing he's not telling the kids this fact in order to spare them the thought that mom committed suicide.

Pullo knows what Vorenus told him, which is that he didn't kill his wife. Whether Pullo believes Vorenus about that is another story (he probably does). But regardless, Vorenus is not totally blameless in Niobe's death.

I forsee a good end for Pullo but a not-so-good end for Vorenus.

when speaking to Ceasar's son about his father, was Vorenus describing Pull or Cesare ("bravest man that he ever knew," "would eat the entire table," etc.)?

I can see this show ending with Vorenus and Pullo having to kill each other in battle.


Ive thought this ever since the first season

I took it as he was describing Pullo.

I took it as he was describing Pullo.

I didn't think Vorenus knew the boy was Pullo's, but now that you mention it, his description makes more sense if it was Pullo.

I didn't think Vorenus knew the boy was Pullo's, .

Oh ... he knows alright ... and if you recall from season 1, the boy was very nearly V's ...

I took it as he was describing Pullo.

I did as well

I didn't think Vorenus knew the boy was Pullo's, but now that you mention it, his description makes more sense if it was Pullo.

He knew Pullo slept with Cleo - and when she announced she was pregnant he raised an eyebrow towards Pullo - and Pullo had a sh*t-eating grin on his face. The lack of paternity testing means they both are just speculating that he very well could be the father.

BTW, Pullo does know that Vorenus did not kill his wife, right? I'm guessing he's not telling the kids this fact in order to spare them the thought that mom committed suicide.

He knows, but knows it's useless to try to convince her otherwise. He and Vorenus had the same discussion a week or 2 back, but can't remember the exact exchange.

when speaking to Ceasar's son about his father, was Vorenus describing Pull or Cesare ("bravest man that he ever knew," "would eat the entire table," etc.)?

Caesareon(sp?) was asking Vorenus to describe Caesar (who he thinks is his father)...Vorenus was describing Pullo. That's why he said "he could eat a whole table" and Caesareon said "Really, I heard he didn't eat" and Vorenus demures and says "you're right, I didn't know him as well as others". He kindof got caught in describing 2 different men. On a similar note, notice Pullos face when he found out Octavian was planning to kill Caesarian? He knows its his son and he knows he's already had 1 son killed...wonder if it will come into the storyline next week (I doubt there is time).

I loved the part where Vorenus talks with Anthony and tells him that he isn't a coward but something is eating his soul (as he is stricken by the same disease). Really poignant scene, to me.

I'm really going to miss this series and the characters. It certainly is at least #2 on my all-time favorite list, behind(or tied with) Deadwood and followed by Sopranos. After the Deadwood movies wrap I will likely cancel my subscription. As someone posted earlier, it would be different if they were trading 1 great show for another, or there was a potential one waiting in the wings. Lucky Louie doesn't qualify as that for me.

One potential spoiler I saw in the previews for next week


If you notice in the previews, it shows Vorenus fighting Anthony. Something has to drive them to fight, wonder what that is? Pullo's death?

One potential spoiler I saw in the previews for next week


If you notice in the previews, it shows Vorenus fighting Anthony. Something has to drive them to fight, wonder what that is? Pullo's death?


It isn't a spoiler since it was in the previews - but I'd wager it was the result of Pullo talking some sense into Vorenus and he weighing his "oath for life" to Antony against what is best for the Republic (along with the vision of Antony dressed and made up like a French whore).

I bet you Attia wishes she had kept that gift slave from season 1 after Antony dismissed her.

Is the finale a 2 hour show? And if it isn't, do you think it's too late to ask HBO if they could make it 2 hours?

Is the finale a 2 hour show? And if it isn't, do you think it's too late to ask HBO if they could make it 2 hours?

It's a 1 hour and 15 minute finale. You can ask all you want, but this episode was filmed months ago. I don't think they can help you.

I'm really going to miss this series and the characters. It certainly is at least #2 on my all-time favorite list, behind(or tied with) Deadwood and followed by Sopranos. After the Deadwood movies wrap I will likely cancel my subscription. As someone posted earlier, it would be different if they were trading 1 great show for another, or there was a potential one waiting in the wings. Lucky Louie doesn't qualify as that for me.


The next "big" series coming up on the new, cheapskate HBO is David Milch's ('Deadwood') 'John from Cincinnati'. It will be very good, no doubt, but not a huge period production like 'Deadwood', 'Rome', or 'Carnivale'. It's part of the company's new marketing slogan: "It's nothing special, just HBO". :rolleyes:

If they aren't careful, people are going to start calling them "Home BO". :)

Best episode so far.. can't believe that there is only 1 more left. Who was that guy in the cage? The HBO executive that cut this series? I agree that this could go on for a few more seasons.

Best episode so far.. can't believe that there is only 1 more left. Who was that guy in the cage? The HBO executive that cut this series? I agree that this could go on for a few more seasons.

Memmio, the ex leader of the Caeliens. (minus his tongue, of course).

Perhaps Memmio's tongue was in taxman's cheek when he asked that question?

Best episode so far.. can't believe that there is only 1 more left. Who was that guy in the cage? The HBO executive that cut this series? I agree that this could go on for a few more seasons.
Chris Albrecht? Now that you mention it, there was a slight resemblance. :D

Perhaps Memmio's tongue was in taxman's cheek when he asked that question?

Doh, I glanced over his reply while watching Prison Break and missed the second half somehow. I'll go sit in the cage and shut up now.

:rolleyes:

You guys are just getting hooked on Roman history (as we know it). The series started to exceed my expectations towards the end of last season, but the Roman culture and this period of history is so rife with action and melodrama, we the fans, are compelled to watch the drama with extremely high production values. It's just addicting...and now that we're hooked...WTF

The next "big" series coming up on the new, cheapskate HBO is David Milch's ('Deadwood') 'John from Cincinnati'. It will be very good, no doubt, but not a huge period production like 'Deadwood', 'Rome', or 'Carnivale'. It's part of the company's new marketing slogan: "It's nothing special, just HBO". :rolleyes:

I would be more excited about the new series had they named it after
me: "Bill From Cincinnati"

I'd like to see more of Livia. I don't think there's much left, but I'd like to see it.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/e4bc9d1c.jpg

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Excellent episode, but we shifted so far future it makes you wonder what could have been. There could have been an entire season filled with the events between the last episode and this one.

Ah well.

Agree that the scene between Antony and Vorenus describing "something eating at (their) souls" was very poignant. They've both become evil men and I think Vorenus will die as well as Antony.

Boy, that Cleopatra was some vindictive b*tch, huh? Every option she gave Antony for dealing with Attia was fueled by her jealousy. Antony chose the most humane option, I guess he really does care for Attia.

Speaking of Attia, go and read about the "real" Attia...they took some serious license with her for this character, to say the least.

Poor Pullo, he really seems to be the classic tragic character. Nothing but bad things happen to him...he did the right thing in dealing with his dead lover though. Does anyone think she *really* loved Pullo? I just recall how she came onto Vorenus previously, it makes me wonder if she just loved his power and position. Another dark and tragic character.

I really hate that we only have one episode left of this excellent show.

Oh, and I think the writers are waiting for a more dramatic scene to reveal to Vorenus' children that he didn't "kill" Niobe, so they can forgive and redeem him. Perhaps at his funeral?

Poor Pullo, he really seems to be the classic tragic character.

Pullo got EXACTLY what he had coming to him. Remember how he got his first wife????

I fell over laughing during Octavian's sex scene...quite the jackhammer...lol

Who was that guy in the cage?
why was that guy in the cage? I must have missed something.

It was Memmio, Vorenus' main rival in the Collegium and the one that Pullo ripped out the tongue from in their clan brawl at the end of the previous episode.

Pullo even commented on why he was in the cage in the episode...paraphrased as, "to serve as an example for others to consider their loyalty" or something like that.

Speaking of Attia, go and read about the "real" Attia...they took some serious license with her for this character, to say the least.

you got that right. The real one was a prude:

In her presence no base word could be uttered without grave offence, and no wrong deed done. Religiously and with the utmost delicacy she regulated not only the serious tasks of her youthful charges, but also their recreations and their games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atia

He knew Pullo slept with Cleo - and when she announced she was pregnant he raised an eyebrow towards Pullo - and Pullo had a sh*t-eating grin on his face. The lack of paternity testing means they both are just speculating that he very well could be the father.

That was a great scene. As the whole army was cheering, the look on those two's faces was great and Pullo was cheering but with much less conviction. It was hilarious.

The scene with V and Anthony should be all the reason anyone needs to be sad this series is coming to a close. So well done. Anthony who's scenes are filled with perfect one liners and hilarious situation worked perfectly with V in that scene.

The scene with Livia and Octavian was great too.

I've been recording the show, but I'm still about 5 episodes behind watching it. Anyway, can somebody tell me when will they air the last episode of season?

This Sunday is the SERIES finale.........

This Sunday is the SERIES finale.........
Thanks. For me that also means the Finale of my HBO subscription :D

That was a great scene. As the whole army was cheering, the look on those two's faces was great and Pullo was cheering but with much less conviction. It was hilarious.

The scene with V and Anthony should be all the reason anyone needs to be sad this series is coming to a close. So well done. Anthony who's scenes are filled with perfect one liners and hilarious situation worked perfectly with V in that scene.

The scene with Livia and Octavian was great too.
And Anthony sure reminded me of Brando in Apocalypse Now during that scene. It seemed like he was trying to sound like him.

you got that right. The real one was a prude:

In her presence no base word could be uttered without grave offence, and no wrong deed done. Religiously and with the utmost delicacy she regulated not only the serious tasks of her youthful charges, but also their recreations and their games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atia

And as we all know... wikipedia is the last word in factual accuracy. :rolleyes:

In fredfa's thread on daily television news, he linked to an article in today's NY Times regarding the current state of HBO programming. I'll leave it to the readers to decide whether they think HBO is committed to spending money for quality programming.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10093387&&#post10093387

And as we all know... wikipedia is the last word in factual accuracy. :rolleyes:

True, but no less so than the textbooks we all grew up with.
Everything is influenced by interpretations of the facts. And that's even when we HAVE facts to interpret.

And as we all know... wikipedia is the last word in factual accuracy. :rolleyes:

I can't doubt the validity of the wiki entry, but it comes down to who writes the history. If Antony defeated Octavian, then who knows what the "facts" would be.

Goodbye to a great series!! Above poster answered my question about length of the finale. What do we get for 1 week until the Sopranos come on? Et Tu Tony Soprano?

Goodbye to a great series!! Above poster answered my question about length of the finale. What do we get for 1 week until the Sopranos come on? Et Tu Tony Soprano?

They are going to show a Jerry Seinfeld tribute.

Wow, that last episode was so good, if anything I'm even more pissed that HBO is cancelling it, I didn't think that was possible.

Honestly, this series was just getting better and better. That exchange between Octavian and Cleopatra reminded me of the powerful yet subtle verbal dances normally only seen in certain episodes of 'Deadwood' Carefully chosen words all with underlying implied messages, would put any modern politician to shame.

Great episdoe but felt almost cheated by the timeframe as it ended eight minutes after the hour not fifteen.

This series was most certainly getting better and better and the division between the nobility and common man was an interesting touch as the characters wove back and forth. Most interesting was the development of Pullo from a "Of Mice and Men" Lenny like idiocy to effective participant in the society.

The way the show stood to match history with its storyline I found intoxicating towards the finale.

And the acting, well bravo. Even though I didn't care for the character, Attia certainly had a poignant moment at the end with her son taking charge of the Roman Empire, yet you were focused on her emotional look in the rear view mirror of her relationship with Marc Anthony.

That was impressive and I thought the ending might come right there.

Pullo walking through the streets though with his "son" and explaining the truth of his being the father, well... that's the way you wrap up a series.

Then I sat back and marveled at the detail of the wide shot on a 106" screen in 1080p via a Sony Pearl.

The best HD production ever. What a shame to see it end.

I can't believe its over, what a shame. The show really hit a stride this year, especially the latter episodes. I think thye did a pretty good job wrapping it all up. Hated to see Vorenus finally bite the dust though. Him and Pullo just made the show. Pullos change from thug to somewhat honorable man was a great arc throughout the series. Anyway very sad that one of the few quality shows on TV is now over.

Agree, great series and great final episode. Considering how they were hamstrung and had to accelerate the timeline, they did a fantastic job.

Agree, great series and great final episode. Considering how they were hamstrung and had to accelerate the timeline, they did a fantastic job.

Loved the series...and will miss it!!!! :(

Can someone give me the correct spelling of the battle where Agrippa defeats Anthony?

I want to research it more, is it "Achiem"?

I have now had about three different explainations on it, and none of them really match. I would find it fascinating that Anthony would just take off after Cleopatra, and leave his men to essentially be slaughtered...but last night they mentioned Cleopatra had the gold on her ship, I had not heard that before.

It's the Battle of Actium.

Thanks.....its funny but on the surface you would believe Anthony was a great General, but in reality, he lost a lot more than he won.

Pullos change from thug to somewhat honorable man was a great arc throughout the series.

Well I think he was always honorable, and he certainly still has his vices. But that whole topic resulted of one of last nights best quotes....Vorenus: "Define good" :)

I liked the part where you think Pullo is going to try to talk Vorenus into giving up the boy to save his life, but it never crossed either of their minds. Pullo showed up and they immediately started plotting a way to escape. I think you feel so much for those 2 characters because the writers/actors did such a good job of portraying their honor and never ending loyalty. Pullo knew it was a waste of time to even ask Vorenus to open the gates. It was telling they had more success getting to Cleopatra's loyalty than they did Vorenus, and he had no emotional investment. The Anthony exit scene with Vorenus was touching and exuded those honor and loyalty traits as well.

Great ending and series and I realized after it signed off that it was my favorite of all time. It was a close race between it and deadwood, but I felt I would miss it more when it signed off than I did with deadwood (though with the latter I know it's still not really "over" yet, what with the 2 movies).

Thanks to HBO for giving it to us, even in a small dose. It's a shame they're not going to continue in that direction in the future as they have put together 3 of the best series ever IMO (rome, deadwood, sopranos).

If nothing else the series has perked my interest in the whole era as I'm now reading more history books than I ever did in school :)

Thanks.....its funny but on the surface you would believe Anthony was a great General, but in reality, he lost a lot more than he won.

I would say he won much more battles than he lost. He had campaigns in Judea, Africa, and Gaul, and numerous battles against Pompei. And history tells us he was more than a compentant military leader.

Great acting by James Purefoy when he thinks Cleopatra killed herself. Show will truly be missed.

Yes, it will be missed. We may never see another series with this combination of production values, acting, and ripe historic storyline. It may be the end of an era in television just as we saw the end of the great mini series such as Roots, Thorn Birds, Shogun, etc.

I would say he won much more battles than he lost. He had campaigns in Judea, Africa, and Gaul, and numerous battles against Pompei. And history tells us he was more than a compentant military leader.

I guess Octavian just had his number...although deserting your men at the climax of the battle would hardly be cosndiered "Compatent".

Reminds me of Napoleon, had great victories, but most remember him losing the Russian campaign, and then to Wellington at Waterloo.

I can't believe Rome is over, I mean we get 10 versions of Law and Order and CSI but only 2 seasons of one of the greatest made for tv show ever.

Definitely my favorite series of all time. It's in a league of its own.

Great episdoe but felt almost cheated by the timeframe as it ended eight minutes after the hour not fifteen.

This series was most certainly getting better and better and the division between the nobility and common man was an interesting touch as the characters wove back and forth. Most interesting was the development of Pullo from a "Of Mice and Men" Lenny like idiocy to effective participant in the society.

The way the show stood to match history with its storyline I found intoxicating towards the finale.

And the acting, well bravo. Even though I didn't care for the character, Attia certainly had a poignant moment at the end with her son taking charge of the Roman Empire, yet you were focused on her emotional look in the rear view mirror of her relationship with Marc Anthony.

That was impressive and I thought the ending might come right there.

Pullo walking through the streets though with his "son" and explaining the truth of his being the father, well... that's the way you wrap up a series.

Then I sat back and marveled at the detail of the wide shot on a 106" screen in 1080p via a Sony Pearl.

The best HD production ever. What a shame to see it end.

There is a reason Attia looked so shocked in that scene. If you'll play it back in slow motion, you'll see a decorated cart in the parade with what looks like a mannequin of a Roman General lashed to the front, well that ain't no general, that's Anthony's decomposing corpse, and lashed to the pole opposite him is the blackened, decomposing body of Cleopatra. I think that sight would have shocked anyone, except Livia and Octavian.

If you really want to see the rest of the series, rent or buy the 13-hour BBC series "I Claudius". It continues with Rome under the Emperorship of Octavian and continues through Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. If you think Attia was tough, wait until you get a load of Octavians wife,Livia. She makes "Murder Inc." seem like a Boy Scout Troop. The "I Claudius" series is well worth your time and is actually better written and acted than HBO's "Rome" and will take you to the bloody end of that entire regime.

One other thing. There is an excellent Discovery documentary "The Mysterious Death Of Cleopatra" that reveals the fact that no one to this day knows how she died...no one. That whole snake thingy, Shakespeare made it up. It's like DeMille once said on the set of "The Ten Commandments", 'never let history get in the way of a good scene'.

Last word on Cleopatra in the HBO production. It sure was great to see an actress with some curves and meat on her cast in the role and not one of the usual starvation projects.

My grandparents used to watch "I, Claudius" but it was more like watching a stage production done for TV. I never got into it and found it tolerable the way I guess a young teen does. It certainly merits a mention here though.

On the other hand, I thought Octavian's new wife was a fine philly, so much better than his sister. It may be hard to erase the episode with her from a week back. Yipes!

On the other hand, I thought Octavian's new wife was a fine philly, so much better than his sister. It may be hard to erase the episode with her from a week back. Yipes!

You must mean Alice Henley as Livia......

There is an excellent Discovery documentary "The Mysterious Death Of Cleopatra" that reveals the fact that no one to this day knows how she died...no one. That whole snake thingy, Shakespeare made it up. It's like DeMille once said on the set of "The Ten Commandments", 'never let history get in the way of a good scene'.

Last word on Cleopatra in the HBO production. It sure was great to see an actress with some curves and meat on her cast in the role and not one of the usual starvation projects.Hmm, if "nobody knows" then I guess there was no history to get in the way anyway ;). The Cleopatra character appeared pretty fit and toned to me. Granted, she is proportioned toward the bottom end. But from that screen cap posted in the thread last week she looked to even have the start of a six pack going there. I think our Cleo has been dedicated to her crunches.

On the other hand, I thought Octavian's new wife was a fine philly, so much better than his sister.Ginger..... or Maryanne? Octavia for me please!

Very good wrap up ep. Satisfying in pretty much all ways for me. It is a shame to see it go, and for sure they could have done a lot more even just within the time frame they covered. But at least it went out still burning brightly.


ron

Rome has been one of those series, along with The Sopranos and Deadwood, that we'll think about fondly for years to come.

Rome has been one of those series, along with The Sopranos and Deadwood, that we'll think about fondly for years to come.

IMHO, you can add Carnivale, Six Feet Under, and even Sex in the City to that list.
Sadly, I think the era of HBO significantly impacting pop culture is coming to an end :( .

Off topic....It has long tortured me who the actor playing Vorenus reminded me of and it finally came to me last night. He is a dead ringer for Boris Becker (German tennis star).

Yes, it will be missed. We may never see another series with this combination of production values, acting, and ripe historic storyline. It may be the end of an era in television just as we saw the end of the great mini series such as Roots, Thorn Birds, Shogun, etc.

People say this every time an expensive, well-made production ends. Eventually, another fine show/film will come along. Unfortunately, shows of this caliber are just too far and few in between.

I liked how they didn't stay exactly to the letter with Rome's history and added some things to it that really spiced it up and made it even more interesting. Like Octavian's sister. There is no historical evidence she ever had anything with Octavian's general. But by throwing that in a little, while not historically acurate, made the other scenese when like she had to marry Anthony, have that much more impact/drama. Well done series. Pullo and Vorenus where they best. While agan, no historical records on anything they did other then serving the in the Legion, it was great having those two. Some of the best characters on a TV show ever.

It will be sorely missed. :(

My fav show of all time. It will be missed. I was nearly choked when Vorena was looking at Vorenus through the window. What a proper sendoff for such a show.

Can't wait till it hits HD formats so I can treasure it the way it was meant to be seen.

Another voice in the "me, too!" mode. The series just kept getting better and better. I think the final line of dialogue was perfect: "About your father ...". The expressions on Attia's face, the grief of Antony and Cleopatra on each one's suicide, the subtle interplay between Cleo and Octavian - excellent acting.

I thought the actor playing the younger Octavian was very good (Max Pirkis) and wondered how the older Octavian actor would do (Simon Woods) or how the transition would be handled - it turned out that by the second episode after Simon joined the cast I was completely convinced of him as Octavian right at the period of his becoming the Augustus of the history books.

And of course Vorenus on Pullo: "Define good."

Cliff

This is by far the best TV series I've ever witnessed. The story told just leaped out at you and grabbed hold, and never loosened its grip.

The last episode was a great send off for all the characters we've become so interested in following. The Roman tribute lives on, and its not something you can buy with your denari. ;)

If I'm to have any quibble, I thought a bit too much screen time was given to Timon in the 2nd season. Other than that, absolutey tremendous.

Pullo, Vorenus, you guys live in my mind.

That look on Attia's face at the end (coupled with the knowledge of Servilia's curse on her) will forever be burned into my memory.

Another voice in the "me, too!" mode. The series just kept getting better and better. I think the final line of dialogue was perfect: "About your father ...". The expressions on Attia's face, the grief of Antony and Cleopatra on each one's suicide, the subtle interplay between Cleo and Octavian - excellent acting.

I thought the actor playing the younger Octavian was very good (Max Pirkis) and wondered how the older Octavian actor would do (Simon Woods) or how the transition would be handled - it turned out that by the second episode after Simon joined the cast I was completely convinced of him as Octavian right at the period of his becoming the Augustus of the history books.

And of course Vorenus on Pullo: "Define good."

Cliff
Agree completely. I think I'm going to start going through withdrawals soon ... and start looking for a life. :rolleyes:

Seriously, awesome show! While the season finale for the first season was better imo (but honestly who can top that effort??) I loved this season better overall. Wonderful acting, cinematography, writing excellent for the most part. I'm actually glad we had a chance to view Pirkis' and Woods' performances this year - they have very interesting interpretations of Octavian and Woods look while speaking with Cleopatra this last episode was awesome.

Oh, and the HD and SQ are superb! Definitely a must own when it comes out on one of those HD disc formats. I don't know what else HBO is going to do with them cancelling all these shows, which now officially take up half of our blockbuster que. :)

oh, and the whole "look like Medusa on the rag" line. :p

So many of these would come out of the blue! just wow.....

OK, who's got some good spin-off ideas we can pitch to HBO. ;)

OK, who's got some good spin-off ideas we can pitch to HBO. ;)I'm already jones'ing for more

How about Pullo and company join Carnivale as a Roman gladiator act and the shows will be held in Deadwood. :)

Video Game:

God of War: Pullo vs. Vorenus Edition

How about Pullo and company join Carnivale as a Roman gladiator act and the shows will be held in Deadwood. :)

The three great leaders build rival empires: Octavian, Tony Soprano, and Al Swearengen.

The three great leaders build rival empires: Octavian, Tony Soprano, and Al Swearengen.

I think Al Swearengen would win that one! :D

You must mean Alice Henley as Livia......

Usually a dark brunette guy, but yes Alice is lovely. And that character shows how well women adapt to upward mobility. :rolleyes:

I'm late to the thread, had to DVR the episode and finally watched it last night...

As others have said, what a fantastic show. It actually had me choked up when Vorena and Vorenus had their reconcilement, even though I knew it was coming for 3-4 episodes.

Hate that they had to leap such huge time gaps, but I thought they handled it really well. Every major character (except for possibly Posca) got a proper send off. Yet, none of it seemed forced or rushed.

Loved the standoff between Attia and Livia there at the end. "I don't give a f--- what the priests said..." Great stuff. :D

As others have said, "medusa on the rag"..."define good"...all great lines.

Pullo, after so much tragedy and heartbreak, finally got a son of his own.

And, Caesarrion doesn't have such a bad future ahead of him. He's next in line as a captain of the collegium at least. :)

Its a shame there was nothing on the actual battle between Anthony and Octavian. All we got was some smoking ships and an indication of a naval defeat.

The Battle of Actium was the decisive naval engagement fought off the promontory of Actium on September 2, 31 BC, between the Roman fleet of Octavian (later first emperor of Rome as Augustus), under the command of Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, and a combined Roman-Egyptian fleet commanded by Mark Antony and Cleopatra.

The battle was really a political ploy by Octavian to take power from Marc Anthony and Cleopatra, for control of the Roman world. Also Marc Anthony had divorsed Octavian's sister to be with Cleopatra, and Octavian stired up the Roman senate as an excuse to get back at them. There had been skirmishing of armies encamped on opposite shores of the Ambracian Gulf before.

Marc Anthony launched the initial phase of the engagement. (Against the advice of his generals) Cleopatra really wanted an opportunity to withdraw to Egypt. but Marc Antony launched his fleet of approximately 220 heavy craft equipped with missile-throwing devices attacked at close range.

Octavian's fleet was of some 260 light vessels had greater maneuverability.

Cleopatra insisted on taking part in the campaign. The outcome of the battle could have gone either way until Cleopatra, became alarmed and ordered the Egyptian contingent, about 60 vessels, to withdraw.

Marc Antony himself followed Cleopatra, and most of his remaining vessels were soon overtaken and annihilated. The deserted army later surrendered to Octavian.
http://waltm.net/cleohisa.htm

If I'm to have any quibble, I thought a bit too much screen time was given to Timon in the 2nd season.

yea, that's true. And what ever happened with that story arc after he killed his brother? It just seemed they planned to go somewhere with that but ran out of time.

Timon was one I was wondering about too. Didn't think he warranted all the screen time this season, but his sendoff (I think last we saw, he and his family were packed up and leaving?) was in an earlier episode.

I seem to recall his first appearance had him having his way with Attia. :)

As for the Naval Battle at Actium, I wasn't suprised we didn't see much of that...this show has typically only shown post-battle scenes...

So did Vorenus live or die at the end? Pullo said he "didnt make it" but Pullo also said he had killed the boy. I like to think Vorenus and his family moved away and lived happily ever after.

I'd like to think that too, but I'm afraid the hard truth is that Vorenus passed on after reconciling with his children.

I'd like to think that too, but I'm afraid the hard truth is that Vorenus passed on after reconciling with his children.

I'm surprised he lived as long as he did after that skirmish at the roadblock. Remember he was severely stabbed by the soldiers. An injury similar to that suffered by Marc Anthony (although from the front not the back) was fatal to him within a few minutes.

They're in Egypt. How long would it take to get back by ship to Italy and by road to Rome itself? My guess is somewhere around a month, maybe two? Vorenus has a strong constitution but that's stretching it a bit.

I'm surprised he lived as long as he did after that skirmish at the roadblock. Remember he was severely stabbed by the soldiers. An injury similar to that suffered by Marc Anthony (although from the front not the back) was fatal to him within a few minutes.

They're in Egypt. How long would it take to get back by ship to Italy and by road to Rome itself? My guess is somewhere around a month, maybe two? Vorenus has a strong constitution but that's stretching it a bit.

Well, we really don't know where the stabbing occurred (we can assume it was Egypt based on the guard's words/actions though), but it's still questionable he lived that long.

After the stabbing scene I believe it said "A month later" when it switched to him arriving in Rome. The wound was quite a bit different than Anthony's though. Anthony went up at an angle from just below the rib cage into the heart area, while Vorenus' wound looked like it was in the lower back.

So did Vorenus live or die at the end? Pullo said he "didnt make it" but Pullo also said he had killed the boy. I like to think Vorenus and his family moved away and lived happily ever after.

only if after thousands of defections from HBO they realize their mistake and decide to resurrect the series :)

otherwise this isn't Bobby Ewing and Vorenus is dead and buried. I think it was pretty obvious he really died, and in the way he wanted to (in Rome, with his family and friend by his side).

Although I do wonder why Pullo told the children "you're father is here" and "he's LIKELY to die" (instead of saying he WAS dying).

It's a shame seeing the show end. It always seemed to get better and better with every show. Sure, the time span covered by the evens of this last season seemed to skip over several years between episodes several times and some plot-lines seemed rushed toward resolution before they played out in full. In any case, the main stories of Pullo, Vorenus, Octavian, Anthony, Servilla and Atia did get their full due. James Purefoy (as Antony) and Lindsey Duncan (as Servilla) were especially fantastic in their performances. Duncan's performance was always strong - from the start until the suicidal finish of Servilla. Purefoy seemed a weak link to me at the beginning of the series but looking back it's obvious that was part off the plan since Antony would come into his own only after Ceaser's death. From that point on, Purefoy was awesome. Kevin McKidd's Vorenus and Ray Stevenson's Pullo were always great though I do think McKidd got the better role to play.

To the poster above that said Vorenus reminded him of Boris Becker, you're right...I can definitely see that myself.

Kevin McKidd was also in "Kingdom of Heaven" in a somewhat Vorenus-like role, so if you're wanting more of him in Rome's absence, you have that option.

Likewise, Stevenson played a very Pullo-like character in "King Arthur."

Pretty interesting coincidence considering the movie titles.

One of my favorite Letterman Top 10's was "Why did Boris Becker do so poorly at the French Open?" (or something similar)

#?: He thought if he showed up, they'd just surrender the cup to him. :)

only if after thousands of defections from HBO they realize their mistake and decide to resurrect the series :)

Rome was a joint production of HBO and the BBC. From what I understand the BBC was even more adamant about cutting the cord due the high costs involved.

One of my favorite Letterman Top 10's was "Why did Boris Becker do so poorly at the French Open?" (or something similar)

#?: He thought if he showed up, they'd just surrender the cup to him. :)thanks :p

Rome was a joint production of HBO and the BBC. From what I understand the BBC was even more adamant about cutting the cord due the high costs involved.

Darn, I guess that means all those people threatening to cancel HBO are going to have to cancel the BBC as well! And me, I'm going to have to cancel NBC for taking off...oh, never mind. :D

One of my favorite Letterman Top 10's was "Why did Boris Becker do so poorly at the French Open?" (or something similar)

#?: He thought if he showed up, they'd just surrender the cup to him. :)

That's hilarious. :)

A great ending to a great series. Maybe Vorenus is in a VA hospital in Rome.. Guess Pullos is going to celebrate Fathers day this year.. Goodbye Rome..

I'm surprised he lived as long as he did after that skirmish at the roadblock. Remember he was severely stabbed by the soldiers. An injury similar to that suffered by Marc Anthony (although from the front not the back) was fatal to him within a few minutes.

They're in Egypt. How long would it take to get back by ship to Italy and by road to Rome itself? My guess is somewhere around a month, maybe two? Vorenus has a strong constitution but that's stretching it a bit.

If you look closely at the scene, the soldier got maybe 3 inches of the blade into Vorenus. It wasn't a fatal blow.

If you don't see it -- it didn't happen. Vorenus did not die.

Vorenus is dead. Long live Vorenus!

He clearly died.

So did Vorenus live or die at the end? Pullo said he "didnt make it" but Pullo also said he had killed the boy. I like to think Vorenus and his family moved away and lived happily ever after.

Don't you people get it?

ROME may be over, but JERUSALEM (or maybe JUDEA) can now begin! Timon & family have a whole new life to start but he's got to deal with his own stud-farm/murderous past and the ongoing rise of Zealotry and other forms Rome-hate, Herod's going to have his problems, somewhere out there we'll soon find this small Jewish sect prefering the simple sayings of some Jesus guy to all the sanctimonious ramblings of uppercrust Rome-supporting Priests and their Zadokite buddies -- and to top it all off Pullo, Vorenus, and family have fled Rome -- to far-off Judea, of course -- because Augustus is starting to suspect Caesarion may have survived because he's heard rumors Vorenus isn't really dead.

Heck, the story's only just beginning!

He clearly died.

He didn't die by the end of the show, and he is clearly dead by now. Other than that, we can all make our own assumptions how long he lasted. Personally, I'd like to think he earned immortality and spent the last ~2000 years fighting for truth, justice and the American way (with a British accent, of course) - one ass-kicking at a time.

Unfortunately the writers don't share that thinking, because you're right, they clearly intended for us to assume that he never left that bed alive - and he left that bed shortly after we saw him last.

He's not only merely dead,
he's really most sincerely dead.

Rome will definitely go down as one of HBO's great shows, along with The Wire. I really like the Sopranos and Oz and watched them every week, but they are just good shows, whereas Rome and The Wire are truly on another level.

Pullo had to tell Octavian that Vorenus died. If not, Octavian wouldnt have believed that the boy was killed. Vorenus lives! Or, I mean, lived. Well, you know what I mean.

Define dead

He is dead, gone, its over. He was stabbed. Then Pullo states that he didn't make it. He is dead.

Rest peacefully Vorenus, you will be missed.

He is dead, gone, its over. He was stabbed. Then Pullo states that he didn't make it. He is dead.

Rest peacefully Vorenus, you will be missed.


Pullo also stated that the boy was dead too.

Pullo also stated that the boy was dead too.

And we saw that he wasn't. Point is, they are telling us something so we have the answer, no cliff hanger, no what ifs. It was stated as fact. When he said the kid was dead we where then shown he wasn't, so we had proof. There was nothing shown saying he isn't dead. Just saying that people want to think he isn't because of some obscure sign or something, I don't think this show was like that, especially the final epsiode, more just telling us so everything is wrapped up. Some people want to think that since the knife appeared to only go in 3 inches he survived (or whatever). I highly doubt the show's creators said, yeah, only go 3 inches deep, the audience will understand he survived even though we take the oppurtunity to state he didn't make it.

I highly doubt the show's creators said, yeah, only go 3 inches deep, the audience will understand he survived even though we take the oppurtunity to state he didn't make it.

absolutely and I actually laughed out loud when I read the original post :)

Vorenus himself said he was dying right after he got stabbed (when pullo told him it wasn't anything serious right before they showed all the blood).

But I do think the shows creators intentionally did NOT show him dying to get a response in just this way (There's a 10+ page thread on the HBO forum about whether he is actually dead) :)


I'd like to think he earned immortality and spent the last ~2000 years fighting for truth, justice and the American way (with a British accent, of course) - one ass-kicking at a time.


Didn't he just get assasinated on the court steps? No wait, that was Captain America.

Define ambiguous

I buried Paul ... turn me on madman. :D

Well, here it is three weeks since the airing of the last episode, and I'm finally up-to-date having just last night gotten to watch the finale off of DVR. Actually I watched the previous three next-to-last episodes the night before and couldn't bear to watch the finale just then as well in a one-shot marathon. I had to put off the finale for at least a day, just as I'd put off the finale of "Six Feet Under" for a month.

I just didn't want this series to end. It was fabulous, and I enjoyed the second season more than the first... though way back at the start of Season 2 I didn't have any idea that was how I would end up feeling. I initially didn't think they could outdo what Season 1 had produced, but in retrospect they far exceeded it (and with it, my corresponding viewing pleasure experience as well).

As many posters over the previous 6 pages have described, the growing time-acceleration over the final 4 or 5 episodes, along with increased action, story, emotion, acting skill, writing skill, karmaic wrapping up of earlier plot points, etc., made it just more and more addicting to watch this second season as it progressed. The costumes and production values and STORY (mostly historically accurate, from what I deduce, despite its occasional DeMille-like dramatic liberties as as also been pointed out) inevitably got me into another universe as I watched each episode, first during the first season but even more during the second. Just wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.

I don't remember have ever being transported so successfully into a "period piece" on TV ever before. I really was there this time, with the story characters actually on my screen [it's difficult to keep in mind that they're just actors, reciting lines that have been written for them].

What a wonderful job of casting! Nobody seemed badly cast, and I got to love or hate everyone I was supposed to. Even more amazing, I actually got to learn everyone's name! During the early parts of Season 1 I went to several sources multiple times to review the cast actor names and the character names that they played, because I still was not fully involved yet. But now that Season 2 has ended I know every one by their first name (and many by their full name as well, thanks to The Daily Reader... another great little side character) and also remember all of their personal stories and histories , going back to the first season as well... because I was "there with them" when it happened.

In fact, I can't recall a literary work getting me so fully involved IN the story (so that I had the same feeling of "being there with them") since reading James Michener's "The Source", a brilliant work of historical-like fiction spanning 10,000 years leading up to 1964 in 16 chapter/short-stories.


Anyway, everybody before me has said it all, and already made the same types of comments about story, detail, subtlety, actors, writing, production values, etc., that I would also like to make. I particularly enjoyed how all of the female characters (and there were MANY) were presented throughout the two seasons. And I thought Cleopatra was superb.

This series, short as it was, definitely must be described as "special" television. And it's final episode was remarkable.

Kudos. A definite purchase-for-posterity when the HD-DVD/BRD is released.

I started this thread but didn't see any of season two until last Thursday. I just signed up for HBO again to watch the Sopranos and my local cable company has all of the episodes available On Demand. So I spent a lot of Thursday and Friday going through the entire season.

I must say it was enjoyable. Even more so being able to watch one episode after another. One thing I did find interesting was almost all (if not all) of the episodes were written by a different writer. I'm wondering how they tied the story arc together?

My only real complaint was at times it appeared choppy but I think it was pretty much required to get where they wanted to go with the amount of time they had to use.

I started this thread but didn't see any of season two until last Thursday. I just signed up for HBO again to watch the Sopranos and my local cable company has all of the episodes available On Demand. So I spent a lot of Thursday and Friday going through the entire season.Unfortunately, you did not get to experience Season 2 in glorious HD. Glorious.

DSperber - I absolutely agree. Rome was one of the most under-appreciated shows on TV - it seems 24 got all of the hype and look how that has turned out.

Yeah, some of the writing was choppy and some of the plots/time management was less than ideal because of time restraints. Still - one of the best shows on TV I've ever watched period. HBO should have touted it as a miniseries and done major ad campaigns a week or two before the premier ... I mean I saw The Tudor ads all over the place but I had to look hard to find anything about Rome. Kind of sad.

Anyways, great show, wonderful acting, great camerawork, great editing, ... fantastic HD. I swear, if this show came out on any one future HD format, I would definitely choose that format just to watch this show. OK, done with my rant :)

Awesome Season

Unfortunately, you did not get to experience Season 2 in glorious HD. Glorious.Having the ability to play the episodes on demand outweighed the HD factor. Now if I wanted to watch them in my theater it would have been a different story.

I went and saw The Namesake last night. Not only was it a very good movie but I was treated by an unexpected appearance by Gaia (Zuleikha Robinson).

Can't wait for the series (hopefully the whole series) to come out on Blu-ray. Do PCM like the Sopranos!

Can't think of a better story to revive this long-dormant thread. From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread:

TV Notes
Heller looking for movie version of 'Rome'
Wants to produce theatrical wrap-up of TV series
By James Hibberd, The Hollywood Reporter - December 1, 2008

The creator of CBS' red-hot procedural "The Mentalist" has unfinished business in Italy.

Bruno Heller says he wants to produce a theatrical wrap-up to his critically beloved and prematurely canceled HBO drama "Rome."

"There is talk of doing a movie version," he said. "It's moving along. It's not there until it is there. I would love to round that show off."

The lavish period drama ran for two seasons on HBO, which co-produced the series with the BBC. With the final season of "The Sopranos" as its lead-in, the first season was solidly rated, but high production costs presented the network with a tough call on the pickup. HBO opted for a second season to help get more value from its initial investment but not a third, effectively canceling the show in summer 2006 before the second season debuted the following January. The "Rome" sets were destroyed, and the actors were released from their contracts, making the decision all but irreversible.

Season 2 of "Rome" was a surprise. Although slightly lower rated than the first, the show did remarkably well without a "Sopranos" lead-in. The first season received four Emmy Awards, and another seven Emmys were heaped upon the final season.

Suddenly "Rome" was a Greek tragedy: a hit show with no future. The broadcast nets quickly snatched up the show's leads for top fall pilots.

HBO executives have since admitted that axing the show probably was a mistake.

One seeming drawback to revisiting the show after its wrap was the demise of a key lead character, Lucius (Kevin McKidd). Yet Heller reveals that the character's off-camera fate was far from fatal.

"It was very deliberate that we saw him drifting away but didn't see him atop a funeral pyre," Heller said.

McKidd is in a recurring role on ABC's "Grey's Anatomy." Fellow "Rome" star Ray Stevenson is in "The Punisher," and Polly Walker is cast in Sci Fi's "Caprica."

A feature revival of a defunct series always is considered difficult, though HBO succeeded with "Sex and the City," and Fox's "Arrested Development" is making progress toward the big screen. Heller would not discuss plot ideas, but the original series outline for "Rome" next called for the hedonistic Roman leaders to deal with the rise of a certain problematic rabbi -- a story line that would have put a whole new spin on the Greatest Story Ever Told and potentially bring "Rome" a larger audience.

"I discovered halfway through writing the second season the show was going to end," Heller said. "The second was going to end with death of Brutus. Third and fourth season would be set in Egypt. Fifth was going to be the rise of the messiah in Palestine. But because we got the heads-up that the second season would be it, I telescoped the third and fourth season into the second one, which accounts for the blazing speed we go through history near the end. There's certainly more than enough history to go around."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3i4fc2c2322d54edaca3e9e52b4eb2d7e7

Knew they went waaaaaaay too fast there, but they went too fast with season 1, too. I'd have liked to see a whole season of Caesar in Gaul. Hell, back up, and revisit young Caesar and the formation the triumvirate.

Crassus, Clodius, the Gracchi, etc. Lots of fun to be had in Rome.

In the meantime, release the complete series on Blu-ray, please. :D

I would have watched a weekly sitcom starring Voranus and Pullo. Here's hoping they put it together, though I'd prefer an I Claudius treatment.

Exclusive: HBO series 'Rome' may finally be headed to the big screen
by Lynette Rice
Categories: Movie Biz, News, TV Biz

Fans of HBO’s critically-beloved (but short-lived) series Rome may not have seen the last of Vorenus and Pullo. Multiple sources have confirmed to EW that a big-screen sequel to the sword-and-sandals series is well underway. Rome creator/executive Bruno Heller — who went on to create CBS’s hit The Mentalist — has finished a script for Morning Light Productions, which financed the development and will produce the film. Series stars Kevin McKidd (Lucius Vorenus) and Ray Stevenson (Titus Pullo) will likely sign onto the movie, which picks up in Germany four years after the series ended. The next step for Morning Light is to find a director and a studio, since HBO Films won’t be involved.

Rome the series aired from 2005-07 and took place during Ancient Rome, beginning with Caesar’s invasion of Gaul and continuing with the rise of the first Emperor Augustus. The series centered on soldiers Pullo and Vorenus, who appeared to die at the end of the series.

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2010/03/04/hbo-rome-movie/

That's great news, but uh, didn't Lucius die?

No Heller said Vorenus did not die.

Of course that was the impression they gave in the show, but when it benefits him for a movie script, he's alive.

One died, one lived. Can't recall which is which now. Not sure both are back.

SOOOOOO can't wait to see this movie, one of the best shows on TV, EVER.

Boy I miss this show. One of my favorites ever as well. I would love a film.

Hmm... Teutoburg Forest?

Just finished rewatching this entire series on Blu-ray last weekend. Miss this show!

So is the movie going to be set after the fall of Marc Anthony and Cleopatra? That's a much less traveled period of Roman history, The early days of the emperor Augustus.

I'd be first in line to see this movie.

Anyone who got really interested in this period of history and needs some books to read ought to read the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/26/The_First_Man_In_Rome.jpg/220px-The_First_Man_In_Rome.jpg

They're just unbelievably great books. The TV series covers action in books 5-7 of the 7 book series.

So is the movie going to be set after the fall of Marc Anthony and Cleopatra? That's a much less traveled period of Roman history, The early days of the emperor Augustus.

I'd be first in line to see this movie.

Anyone who got really interested in this period of history and needs some books to read ought to read the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough.


I'll second that; great stuff. Remarkably researched, you feel like you're there.

So is the movie going to be set after the fall of Marc Anthony and Cleopatra? That's a much less traveled period of Roman history, The early days of the emperor Augustus.

I'd be first in line to see this movie.

Anyone who got really interested in this period of history and needs some books to read ought to read the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/26/The_First_Man_In_Rome.jpg/220px-The_First_Man_In_Rome.jpg

They're just unbelievably great books. The TV series covers action in books 5-7 of the 7 book series.

The article says 10 years after the final show so I say yes seeing as how they ended it.

I read somewhere else it will pick up 4 years after Season II. Either way it's a continuation.

I read somewhere else it will pick up 4 years after Season II. Either way it's a continuation.Per the posts above, you're right. Ceasarion would be about 15, still hanging w/Pullo I presume, Vorenus survives, they're in the German forest, can't imagine who with. The Romans had tons of generals trying to tame that region during that period. It's too soon for Tiberius (Livia's son), who was successful up there...or his brother Drusus (father to Germanicus and Claudius the stutterer). Octavian's got Agrippa and another guy sharing duties under him. Livia's starting to stretch her legs (but her kids have to be really young)...and then this new Rabbi in Jerusalem. Timeline doesn't seem right for this one. I thought he cropped up during the end of Tiberius, beginning of Caligula reigns. It really doesn't matter if they jumble it up again. The characters, acting and writing were so good, I was happy to accept Heller's interpretation.