Just read a review and they weren't all that impressed (two out of four stars) but it's back at 9:00PM Sunday.

I'm looking forward to it. I liked the first season a lot. Did the reviewers like the first season? I don't remember.

A review I just read said it was incredible. A tour de force and that it was ashame it was going away. Oh well, every critic has their opinion, its their job. I for one will definitely be watching it.

This is on reason why there are many reviews posted regularly in the "Hot Off The Press" sticky. To give you a wide range of opinions, not just that of your local critic.

This is on reason why there are many reviews posted regularly in the "Hot Off The Press" sticky. To give you a wide range of opinions, not just that of your local critic.

No offense Fred, but there are too many spoilers in some of those "Hot Off The Press" reviews.

No offense taken, cheery ghost. It is hard to preview/review a show without telling anything about it. (It seems to me the critics seem to be doing a far better job of hiding key elements of the plot line in their "24" reviews.)

But if people want to take a look, some of the reviews are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9434771&&#post9434771

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9436250&&#post9436250

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9436183&&#post9436183

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9425106&&#post9425106

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9426364&&#post9426364

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9425478&&#post9425478

It will be interesting to see how well Mix Pirkis's (Octavian) replacement does--I guess they had to age the character by quite a few years so a different actor plays him midway through the season. I thought the Octavian character/story was just about the most interesting thing on Rome, I hope it doesn't take a back seat to the whole Servilia/Atia storyline.

I didn't care for the first couple episodes of season 1,but I stuck with it and the show got progressively better.Great series.Glad it's back.

Yeah, this was one terrific series in S-1; had it all: brilliant production values (that $100 million is all up there on the screen), a first-rate cast, great writing, and a gritty, micro-view of ancient Rome that has never really been done before. Lots of sex, violence, and political intrigue as well. I find it hard to understand how it failed to "ignite" as one of HBO's better efforts. Seemed to kinda' fly under the radar. Like others here, I'm glad it's back.

I liked Rome, but I liked Deadwood better WAY better. I killed my sub to HBO months ago. I may re-sub when Big Love comes back.

I didn't care for the first couple episodes of season 1,but I stuck with it and the show got progressively better.Great series.Glad it's back.

Same here!

I'd like a little more sex and violence in it, but other than that pretty good.

THere hasn't been much hype about the upcoming season on tv.

Great new episode of Rome. A lot of chips are falling very quickly.

Awesome!

Tonight was the best episode of the whole series. Vorenus is going to be a very interesting character now. Of course the German slut from the kitchen is now my favorite character...

Of course the German slut from the kitchen is now my favorite character...

LOL.. I know what you mean!

Just got done watching it. Wow, really incredible start to the season, actually seemed to be up a notch from where it left off.

Of course the German slut from the kitchen is now my favorite character...

Yep. Kitchen help that can get you toast and coffee for breakfast are a dime a dozen - but that one's a keeper. :)

Favorite line:

"No prostitutes, actors, or unclean tradesmen may attend." :D

As our British friends would say: "Bloody good episode."

. . . everything was well thought out as far as the visuals, but the actors sometimes fall into a cockney british accent . I know this is a co-production with the BBC, but come-on everything else is so good.

Ah yes, it was good to have Rome back again.


ron

The Cockney accent is usually meant to differentiate the "lower class" Romans, picaso.

It is a standard staple in British productions.

What's the significance of the breast milk in the mouth?

Rome, it's good to have you back. :)

That episode was intense. Nothing like good old fashioned vengeance, and there should be allot more to come!

The Cockney accent is usually meant to differentiate the "lower class" Romans, picaso.

It is a standard staple in British productions.

Exactly. I wish I could find the article from last year on Rome, but I remember reading about how they were very deliberate in the use of accents on the show. Now I'm not an expert in English regional dialects, but you can tell the change from say Brutus, to Octavian, to Anthony and on to Vorenus and then Pullo. It goes from a high nobility RP dialect all the way to an over the top Cockney one for the people on the street. I also like how they toss in the ocasional Italian accent.

And Fred's right, this is a staple of British Productions. Anybody ever watch Allo, Allo? Its histerical in that in order to simulate different languages they change the accent while still speaking English. For example, the French characters speak with a crazy French accent when speaking in "French" but will drop the accent when they switch to "English". Really funny show.

I liked Rome, but I liked Deadwood better WAY better. I killed my sub to HBO months ago. I may re-sub when Big Love comes back.

I liked Deadwood although i didn't care for how they ended it. It seemed like everything was for nothing. While that may be true of life, I didn't find it that entertaining. I hope they do the movies though.

Rome, as good as Deadwood was is better in my opinion. That was one of the best season openers I have seen of any show.

I liked Deadwood although i didn't care for how they ended it. It seemed like everything was for nothing. While that may be true of life, I didn't find it that entertaining. I hope they do the movies though.


The ending of the last season of 'Deadwood' was not intended to be the end of the series, only of the third year of the four-year saga of the real town. It did end the "George Hearst" storyline that dominated the season, albeit with something of a whimper.

They still have to cover at least one of the two devastating fires that ravaged the town, and they've laid the foundation of that with the delivery of the fire engine that we saw this past season. I suspect that will be the focus of at least one of the "movies".

The ending of the last season of 'Deadwood' was not intended to be the end of the series, only of the third year of the four-year saga of the real town. It did end the "George Hearst" storyline that dominated the season, albeit with something of a whimper.

They still have to cover at least one of the two devastating fires that ravaged the town, and they've laid the foundation of that with the delivery of the fire engine that we saw this past season. I suspect that will be the focus of at least one of the "movies".


It was the end of the series though. Hopefully the movies do come through! :)

It was a brutal episode

Like many I disliked the first few episodes of S1, but stuck with it and then the show improved greatly. Loved the last 4 or 5 episodes. This new one left me satisfied. Liked it a lot. Cannot wait for next Sunday!

Antony is great. "I'm not getting out of bed until I've ****ed someone." haha

Great season 2 opener! I loved that it picked right up where the last episode of season 1 left. So many times a new season puts some time in between the final ep of one season and the first ep of the next. Such a shame that this 10 episode season is Rome's last.

Really good, as expected. Sorry that's it's only on for 10 episodes and then gone. I'm sure the main reason HBO is killing it is expense vs. ratings. They have stuck with other shows (The Wire) due to extraordinary reviews and press, but that is much cheaper to produce. Rome costs a fortune - but it's worth it! I'll be sorry to see it end.

Nothing says "badass" like walking through the street with your enemy's head in hand.

Loved it.

Can't wait to use Antony's wakeup line this weekend on the wife. :D

Vorenus sure has some major guilt, huh?

His act of leaving Caesar left Caesar unprotected and murdered.

His act of threatening Nadia led to her suicide and death.

His act of cursing his children (in his mind) led to their kidnapping and (we are led to assume) death.

Theres allot more revenge to go around too!

Awesome, Awesome episode 1. Just tremendous ..

Nothing says "badass" like walking through the street with your enemy's head in hand.
Ain't that the truth. :p

Great episode.

I had high hopes for the season two premiere and HBO exceeded my expectations.

The red headed bitch, forget her name at the moment, packed on more than a few pounds between seasons. :(

The red headed bitch, forget her name at the moment, packed on more than a few pounds between seasons. :(
You talking about Polly Walker(Atia), or Caesar's widow? Polly Walker is looking a lot worse for wear this season.

Really good, as expected. Sorry that's it's only on for 10 episodes and then gone. I'm sure the main reason HBO is killing it is expense vs. ratings. They have stuck with other shows (The Wire) due to extraordinary reviews and press, but that is much cheaper to produce. Rome costs a fortune - but it's worth it! I'll be sorry to see it end.

They're going to be sorry eventually. Just my gut feeling, no math or science behind this opinion: I honestly believe 'The Buzz' of HBO is made up of things like Rome, Deadwood, Sopranos, Carnivale, The Wire--almost like a situation where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. The ratings don't tell the whole story. Up till recently there was always a sense that you had to have HBO--it's where all the big action is, the prestige channel, even if you don't currently watch some/all of these shows.

As these shows drop away and aren't replaced by something similar in scope, so does that elite status of HBO. I was going to drop it after Deadwood, but decided to keep it until I see the end of Rome and The Sopranos. I'll catch the Deadwood movies (if they ever come out) some other way, plus I'll check out Milch's new show later and see if it's something I absolutely have to see immediately, in HD, or if I can just wait for DVD sets.

Re: the episode.

I can't help but think the underworld boss was lying to Vorenus. He knew he was going to die regardless of what he said or did, so he may as well make it as painful for Vorenus as possible. I'm guessing that he sold them as slaves and we'll see them pop up toward the end of the season so Vorenus can redeem himself.

Apparently I need to brush up on the actual history from that period. I couldn't remember what happened at the funeral and had to rely on the pleb to describe it.

Re: the episode.

I can't help but think the underworld boss was lying to Vorenus. He knew he was going to die regardless of what he said or did, so he may as well make it as painful for Vorenus as possible. I'm guessing that he sold them as slaves and we'll see them pop up toward the end of the season so Vorenus can redeem himself.

I agree, but I also think he wanted be killed quickly instead of being tortured.

Oh, no doubt the mafioso was lying about the children. He surely knew he was going to die and wanted to inflict as much pain on Vorenus as possible before he went.

Vorenus only *thinks* his "curse" on his children came to fruition.

Regarding the actors' appearance, Attia is not the only one that looked markedly different. Octavius is obviously a little older and less boyish this time around too. Interesting to hear that the actor that plays him will be replaced later in the series. Too bad, I think he's excellent as a know-it-all little snot.

They're going to be sorry eventually. Just my gut feeling, no math or science behind this opinion: I honestly believe 'The Buzz' of HBO is made up of things like Rome, Deadwood, Sopranos, Carnivale, The Wire--almost like a situation where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. The ratings don't tell the whole story. Up till recently there was always a sense that you had to have HBO--it's where all the big action is, the prestige channel, even if you don't currently watch some/all of these shows.

As these shows drop away and aren't replaced by something similar in scope, so does that elite status of HBO. I was going to drop it after Deadwood, but decided to keep it until I see the end of Rome and The Sopranos. I'll catch the Deadwood movies (if they ever come out) some other way, plus I'll check out Milch's new show later and see if it's something I absolutely have to see immediately, in HD, or if I can just wait for DVD sets.

Very well put. I agree completely with your assessment. These "larger than life" series getting replaced by lesser ones will be the network's eventual downfall ..

As these shows drop away and aren't replaced by something similar in scope, so does that elite status of HBO. I was going to drop it after Deadwood, but decided to keep it until I see the end of Rome and The Sopranos.

This is my current plan as well. No Sopranos, No Deadwood, No Rome... Then I'll have NO HBO! Without these shows, HBO is just a junket for old movies that I've seen a dozen times in other venues.

Regarding the actors' appearance, Attia is not the only one that looked markedly different. Octavius is obviously a little older and less boyish this time around too. Interesting to hear that the actor that plays him will be replaced later in the series. Too bad, I think he's excellent as a know-it-all little snot.

Attia is still hot, just not smoking hot.

I completely agree with cavalierlwt regarding HBO. I miss Carnivale.

Late, but have to add my me too on the premiere of Rome.

What a stunning episode. Vorenus is a truly classic, tragic character. He reminds me of Russell Crowe's character in L.A. Confidential. Don't piss him off!

Attia does look like she's aged a bit. Still attractive, though, at least to me...

Another good episode I thought. Octavious finally stood up.

Tough having to wait a week until the next one though.

This has become a great show. I'm really enjoying season 2 so far. I wish HBO would rethink pulling the plug on this series.

This has become a great show. I'm really enjoying season 2 so far. I wish HBO would rethink pulling the plug on this series.

They've already struck the sets and released the cast and crew. It's done. BTW, I agree with you; it is/was a great show and terribly unappreciated. This is the kind of thing that makes you want to subscribe to HBO, not 'Lucky Louie'.

I thought last night was the best episode of the series so far. Things are REALLY starting to heat up. I think the first season was good (not great) but these first two episodes this season have been fantastic.

-Dave

Agreed.

Now, what did Atia whisper to Cleopatra? I got "...trollop" at the end, but missed the rest. It seemed to be some sort of warning, as in "Don't f*** with me!"

I'd love to see the two of them get into it! :D

Agreed.

Now, what did Atia whisper to Cleopatra? I got "...trollop" at the end, but missed the rest. It seemed to be some sort of warning, as in "Don't f*** with me!"

I'd love to see the two of them get into it! :D

"Die screaming, you pig-spawned trollop"

I re-watched all of season 1 as HBO played the episodes leading up to the start of season 2 and I've watched the first two shows of this season. Like many of you have stated, the first couple of shows last season seemed slow and just didn't click. I think all the hype combined with the disappointing slow start to the series drove off a lot of viewers - something I think happened with Carnivale, too. By the end of the season, I think the show had hit it's stride and was living up to the hype that preceded it. The final episodes of season 1, in my opinion, were approaching the quality of the shows from Deadwood's last season. I'm not quite sure where the line is on giving away plot points to season 1 in this thread, so I'll just say that the increasing intensity, emotion, and inter-connectedness of the various plot-lines resulted in a spectacular end to the first season.

Season 2 has started off on the same level as season 1 ended. By this point, we know the characters fairly well and, even better, the actors/actresses know their characters even better. Ray Stevenson's Pullo and Kevin McKidd's Vorenus get better and better and better every episode. Polly Walker's Atia and Lindsey Duncan's Servilia are also fantastic characters and antagonists. The one performer who's really step forward this season is James Purefoy who plays Marc Antony. Now that Ceaser has been killed, Antony has stepped out from the shadows and it's been fun to watch the combination of guile, brutality, charm, boorishness, and bored disinterest in governance which he's been putting on display.

I would suggest that anyone who just didn't get into the show in the first season to rent the first season DVDs and push through the first few episodes and watch the entire season. Rome is good show, a very good show, and it gets better and better each and every episode. I would not, though, suggest watching Rome for the first time at this point in the show. The ever increasing pace, intensity, and emotion of Rome is a cumulative effect resulting from each episode feeding upon all the previous episodes. Without seeing those previous episodes, it's going to be hard to understand what's happening and there's more chance Rome will come off as overly populated with characters with an overly convoluted plot.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

oh, wait........I forget to tell you what I think of Concordia. Do you want to know what I think of Concordia?

dr

"Die screaming, you pig-spawned trollop"
:eek: OMG, that's even better than I had imagined! :D

zeitgeistdr, great analysis. Also, as the characters and their relationships get more fleshed out in the second season, the intensity and momentum will naturally come out of that rather than just the historical narrative. I always find it remarkable to be reminded that all aspects of human nature, good or bad, are seemingly constant, regardless of time period. And that's the hook: these characters are real, in spite of setting or time, because we recognize their traits, whether they be noble or despicable. As long as the writing, acting and direction continue at this level, the show will become richer and richer and, hopefully, avoid the pitfalls of melodrama.

Oh, no doubt the mafioso was lying about the children. He surely knew he was going to die and wanted to inflict as much pain on Vorenus as possible before he went.

Vorenus only *thinks* his "curse" on his children came to fruition.

Regarding the actors' appearance, Attia is not the only one that looked markedly different. Octavius is obviously a little older and less boyish this time around too. Interesting to hear that the actor that plays him will be replaced later in the series. Too bad, I think he's excellent as a know-it-all little snot.

Caesar's widow oughta be playing bass for Rush.

That out of the way, weren't Vorenus' kids in the slave-wagon at the end of the 2nd episode?

Caesar's widow oughta be playing bass for Rush.

That out of the way, weren't Vorenus' kids in the slave-wagon at the end of the 2nd episode?
:D

Yes, his kids and his sister-in-law, I believe.

Its not clear whether they were with Octavious or just heading the same way. Don't suppose it really matters though. Octavious or Pullo (who I suspect will end up down there) will probably recognize them. Octavious may hear their name.

Can't wait until the next one.

Yeah, it was definitely them. They were listed in the credits too.

Agree that it's up in the air whether they were with Octavius or not, looked like they were just using the same road.

I'd imagine the next time we see Octavius, there will be a new actor playing him.

Cleopatra was excellent in this episode. My wife commented that "she wasn't all that hot," which I think is actually the point. Her allure is not in her looks/surface. Attia has good cause to be so concerned.

I wouldn't turn down a roll in the sand with her.

I wouldn't turn down a roll in the sand with her.

I'd think twice if it was summer. :eek:

This is my current plan as well. No Sopranos, No Deadwood, No Rome... Then I'll have NO HBO! Without these shows, HBO is just a junket for old movies that I've seen a dozen times in other venues.

my plan as well. Only way it stays (after the Deadwood movies) is if I decide the premier package is a better value for me. It's currently my only "movie" channel, but I will be ending that after they run their course.

Certainly a shame Sopranos, Deadwood, and Rome (my top 3 series ever) make way for "lucky louie" and a show about a surfer.

I certainly think HBO has made the wrong decision as well. They certainly will still be profitable (if that's all they're concerned about), they just won't be the "flagship" channel they once were.

I wouldn't turn down a roll in the sand with her.

This is so rife for comment. I'll simply ask, how do we know what this says about your powers of (or judgement in) such discriminatory matters? How low (or high) does that bar actually go?? :D I remember that old college policy on drinking night: "drink that woman pretty" OR "if all the women in here are beneath your standards, then lower your standards". (apologies in advance to the ladies - I know that was sexist...but it was funny).

Certainly a shame Sopranos, Deadwood, and Rome (my top 3 series ever) make way for "lucky louie" and a show about a surfer.


Oh, I expect 'John From Cincinnati' to be stellar TV drama. It's David Milch; it's going to be good. That doesn't mean I forgive those c*!ks*!#ers for what they did to 'Deadwood'.

If you want to see Polly Walker looking utterly spectacular, catch "Roseanna's Grave" also with Jean Reno and Mercedes Ruehl.

A nice little gem of a movie, hilariously funny.

http://pro.imdb.com/title/tt0120034/
IMDb Pro : Roseanna's Grave: Main Details

:D

Yes, his kids and his sister-in-law, I believe.O wow, I thought that could have been them

Pitching in late...while I enjoyed season 1, fairly accurate historically and fairly compelling dramatically, it just didn't have the pace of S2. The characters have been winnowed and since Ceasar's now gone, the knives are really going to come out,, as more characters meat their fate and history plays on. As others have said, it's really a shame that now we're hooked, we are watching the count down for another great series. Rome is getting into "I Claudius" territory, in HD...starting to love this show. There's just a wealth of drama/trauma, 'blood opera", during the next 50 years of Roman history. It's a shame we won't see it. :D

Wow...no comments on the last episode? I loved the scenes in Turkey. All that sicko seemed to care about was the "baboon" show...

The 3-month time lapse at the end of the episode was awkward. It stinks that we're getting a shortened season.

They are probably going to rush right through Gaius Octavius's reign then to get to the point of the battle between him and Marc Anthony and Cleopatra. Gaius Octavius was Rome's greatest emperor and ruled longer then any emperor in history. He gave Rome over 200 years of peace and was hailed as Rome's greatest emperor ever. If they plan on ending the season on this note, they are going to have to rush it forward.

I can't believe there isn't much talk about this show / episode either! What about the showdown coming between Puollo and Veranus? Ddin't Veranus pledge alliaince to Antony in Season 1, and in a similiar way Puollo to Octavious? Of course I'm just specualting, but none the less, it seemed pretty obvious the two friends, brothers as they call themselves, are on a collision course.

I wonder if the lack of comments is an indication of the number of folks actually watching this show. It is a great show with even more potential than is currently coming across. HBO's decision to end it this season is causing too much compression of potential material, not only in the main plot lines but also (and equally important to me) in the side Roman cultural issues. If HBO keeps up with this trend (Carnival, Deadwood) it will lose all of its attraction to me.

Back on topic...
There has to be a showdown between Puollo and Veranus. Two great comrades gone off in two opposing directions. One must be destroyed or brought back on the right path.

Episodes are getting better and better,next week looks great!

This is so rife for comment. I'll simply ask, how do we know what this says about your powers of (or judgement in) such discriminatory matters? How low (or high) does that bar actually go?? :D I remember that old college policy on drinking night: "drink that woman pretty" OR "if all the women in here are beneath your standards, then lower your standards". (apologies in advance to the ladies - I know that was sexist...but it was funny).

How about "If she's a 2 at 10, she'll be a 10 at 2" :)

Looks like Servillia (sp?) is going to pay a brutal price for the poisoning. I'm looking forward to that.

That sure was a lot of buggery for one episode --- as the Brits might put it.

And hemp smoking too! Felt a bit tacked on -- what was the point?

And hemp smoking too! Felt a bit tacked on -- what was the point?

It offered an avenue for Atia to show some snobbery and to find out that Macedonia is not a very good place for Marc Antony to retire in. The hemp came from Macedonia.

That sure was a lot of buggery for one episode --- as the Brits might put it.

And hemp smoking too! Felt a bit tacked on -- what was the point?

LOL ... I'm surprised there hasn't been a chorus of moral outrage yet.

I also am enjoying this show. Too bad this is the last season. I hope they are able to tie up the story. Does anyone know how many epsidoes this season will be?
-Evangelo2

10 total.

I was surprised to see that Brutus was actually a secret follower of the Hebrew faith.

I was surprised to see that Brutus was actually a secret follower of the Hebrew faith.

Humm ... I thought he was pleading to the Roman god Janus (of January fame) ... essentially asking for a "new beginning" to his life ... but I'd have to review the play in the booth to be sure.

me thinks poor Servilla is headed for some 'monkey time' with the aforementioned mr. baboon.

Humm ... I thought he was pleading to the Roman god Janus (of January fame) ... essentially asking for a "new beginning" to his life ... but I'd have to review the play in the booth to be sure.


No...not that.

There was a revealing moment as he entered the river to "baptize" himself, indicating that he had adopted the Jewish faith. Let us just say that he was very "circumspect" in his bathing.

I can't believe there isn't much talk about this show / episode either! What about the showdown coming between Puollo and Veranus? Ddin't Veranus pledge alliaince to Antony in Season 1, and in a similiar way Puollo to Octavious? Of course I'm just specualting, but none the less, it seemed pretty obvious the two friends, brothers as they call themselves, are on a collision course.

Well there is plenty to bring them around. Anthony and Octavian's relationship changes back and forth between Mutina and Actium. And it seems that Pullo will rescue Vorenus' children at some point. Then we also have a future conflict between Octavian and Pullo over Ceasarian, who Pullo, Vorenus and Cleopatra all know to be Pullo's son not Caesar's. What does Pullo do when Octavian decides that there are "too many Caesars"?

I don't know but they better hurry up. The EP are a dwindling... :(


ron

Well there is plenty to bring them around. Anthony and Octavian's relationship changes back and forth between Mutina and Actium. And it seems that Pullo will rescue Vorenus' children at some point. Then we also have a future conflict between Octavian and Pullo over Ceasarian, who Pullo, Vorenus and Cleopatra all know to be Pullo's son not Caesar's. What does Pullo do when Octavian decides that there are "too many Caesars"?

Crap, I hadn't even thought that far ahead! :eek:

me thinks poor Servilla is headed for some 'monkey time' with the aforementioned mr. baboon.

That'll be creepy...a baboon going at it with a praying mantis!! :eek:

Caesar's widow oughta be playing bass for Rush.

That's funny. She does bear a striking resemblence to Geddy Lee... definitely not a good thing.

I must give another vote for Sevilla actually being Geddy Lee in drag. :)


Anyone else feel that Brutus doesn't get a fair shake? I mean, according to many books i've read Brutus was also a great general and warrior. Do I have a mistaken impression?

Anybody else notice severe pixelization/macroblocking tonight on HBO-HD? I have Verizon FiOS in Northern Virginia.

I watched it off and on between plays of the Superbowl. As I imagined, replacing the actor who played Octavian was a mistake. Should have just rode it out with the original actor. At this point it really feels like things were rushed due to Rome's impending doom (thanks to HBO). Can't quite put my finger on it, just a sense that they are now rushing to tie up loose ends. I would have liked to have seen this play out over a few more seasons.

replacing the actor who played Octavian was a mistake. Should have just rode it out with the original actor.

agreed...it's not like the new actor seems so much older. Would have been much better served to keep the other one.

I watched it off and on between plays of the Superbowl. As I imagined, replacing the actor who played Octavian was a mistake. Should have just rode it out with the original actor. At this point it really feels like things were rushed due to Rome's impending doom (thanks to HBO). Can't quite put my finger on it, just a sense that they are now rushing to tie up loose ends. I would have liked to have seen this play out over a few more seasons.

I'm with you on both counts. It seems like they're trying to cover a lot in such a short amount of time. Imagine how great of a series this could have been if given several seasons...

Replacing the actor who plays Octavian was a big mistake. He doesn't even remotely resemble the other actor. Wonder why they did that. Did something happen to the original actor in the last year and a half?? As for moving ahead too fast it depends on how far they are going to go. Are they going to depict Octavian's reign as Augustus or go on to his successors Caligula and Nero? Possibly they are just going to go to the point where Augustus is crowned as the new Emperor of Rome. They still have to contend with the forces of Antony on the one hand and Cassius and Brutus on the other. Still it is good writing and exciting drama thanks to the well developed characters of Pulo and Vorenus through whom we see this story unfold.

Note to WilliamR: Octavian's reign as Augustus Caesar gave Rome 75 years of prosperity and peace.....not 200.

Replacing the actor who plays Octavian was a big mistake.
I agree it was rather jarring to see this new Octavian. However, I do understand the need to have a less boyish-looking, more adult actor if the developing story line necessitates it. But at least find someone who looks like young Octavian grown-up (I was half expecting Pullo to not recognize him even after he took his helmet off... :D ). How much time was supposed to have passed anyway?

Very big mistake to replace the actor for Octavian. That turned me off to the whole episode.

Very big mistake to replace the actor for Octavian. That turned me off to the whole episode.

I think it was a good idea to do it within one episode. It would have been far worse if he just showed up like that in a new episode. Such a shame that HBO couldn't (wouldn't...) give this show a four year run. After this series is over I'd like to pick up a book about this period in Roman history, any one have any suggestions?

I'd start off with the Caligula DVD. ;)

Finally got around to watching this last night. Another excellent episode.

Pullo is such a good friend and probably my favorite character.

Vorenus is another fave, what a bad-ass he is.

Mark Antony continues to entertain with his hilarious arrogance.

Octavian's change in appearance was jarring, but I'll wait this one out and see if the new guy grows on me (I really liked the previous actor in that role).

The Jewish family sub-plot is kind of a shock, I never expected to see that particular character get his due...but it's surprisingly interesting.

More buggery in this one, I'm assuming that is what was happening to Servillia anyway. Have we had a buggery-free episode yet this season? :D

Replacing the actor who plays Octavian was a big mistake. He doesn't even remotely resemble the other actor. Wonder why they did that. Did something happen to the original actor in the last year and a half?? As for moving ahead too fast it depends on how far they are going to go. Are they going to depict Octavian's reign as Augustus or go on to his successors Caligula and Nero? Possibly they are just going to go to the point where Augustus is crowned as the new Emperor of Rome. They still have to contend with the forces of Antony on the one hand and Cassius and Brutus on the other. Still it is good writing and exciting drama thanks to the well developed characters of Pulo and Vorenus through whom we see this story unfold.

I don't think they have enough episodes left to push this past his reign and move on to Nero, etc.

Note to WilliamR: Octavian's reign as Augustus Caesar gave Rome 75 years of prosperity and peace.....not 200.

Sorry, but I disagree. According to wikipedia:

Augustus (Latin: IMP•CAESAR•DIVI•F•AVGVSTVS;[1] September 23, 63 BC–August 19, AD 14), known as Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (English Octavian; Latin: C•IVLIVS•C•F•CAESAR•OCTAVIANVS) for the period of his life prior to 27 BC, was the first and among the most important of the Roman Emperors.

Although he preserved the outward form of the Roman Republic, he ruled as an autocrat for 41 years, longer than any subsequent Emperor; and his rule is the dividing line between the Republic and the Roman Empire. He ended a century of civil wars and gave Rome an era of peace, prosperity, and imperial greatness, known as the Pax Romana, or Roman peace, which lasted for over 200 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavian

What I was referring to is the Pax Romana era. He started this, and was directly responsible for its beginning, and the Pax Romana era lasted 200 years.

.... Such a shame that HBO couldn't (wouldn't...) give this show a four year run.

"Wouldn't" is the correct term. HBO made a billion (yes, with a "b") in profit last year; they could easily afford to finish this series off properly, as well as 'Deadwood' and 'Carnivale' for that matter. But since they've decided to go in a different (read: cheaper) direction, they clearly are no longer rolling their massive profits back into quality programming of the kind that only they can do. Their executives must be driving real nice cars these days (and the cost of Mediterranean villas just keeps going up, ya' know). :rolleyes:

"Wouldn't" is the correct term. HBO made a billion (yes, with a "b") in profit last year; they could easily afford to finish this series off properly, as well as 'Deadwood' and 'Carnivale' for that matter. But since they've decided to go in a different (read: cheaper) direction, they clearly are no longer rolling their massive profits back into quality programming of the kind that only they can do. Their executives must be driving real nice cars these days (and the cost of Mediterranean villas just keeps going up, ya' know). :rolleyes:

Everytime someone mentions Deadwood I get upset. Man, that decision really bugs me. What an awesome show, one of the best I've ever seen.

Very big mistake to replace the actor for Octavian. That turned me off to the whole episode.


I was about to write that they had no choice because he was much older at the time. I'm glad I checked before posting that. Turns out his political career started at 15, and he was only 18 at the time of the current episode. That wouldn't have been too hard to pull off with the original actor. To me, this means they are planning to go far into Octavian's reign where a change would be necessary anyway, and it would be easier to pull off while he hasn't been seen in a while.

Too bad they've had to condense this series. HBO continues to disappoint with their ongoing discarding of their best entertainment. :(

I'll enjoy Rome while it lasts.

Art

This might be my favorite series currently on the air. It's heartbreaking that they will not be able to adequately tell the tales of Octavian/Anthony/Cleopatra...

As I imagined, replacing the actor who played Octavian was a mistake. Should have just rode it out with the original actor.

Yes, it seems totally pointless and unnecessary. Especially since Niobe's bastard son looks to be the same age as he was when Vorenus last saw him.

Watched the last episode again. The friend (soldier, General?) that Octavian sends to communicate with his family, Agrippa...for some strange reason he just reminds me of Eric aka 'E' from HBO's 'Entourage'. His looks, mannerisms and even his role is weirdly sort of similar. Not a dead ringer, just somehow similar.

But since they've decided to go in a different (read: cheaper) direction
I don't know -- wasn't "Lucky Louie" about as cheap as could possibly be? It had almost no sets, small cast, almost no design or extra production expenses....(And super funny in my opinion) but it got canned after only one season!

I think you missed the point. It's not that they won't cancel low rated cheap shows - it's that they won't continue the decent rated costly ones.

I think it was a good idea to do it within one episode. It would have been far worse if he just showed up like that in a new episode. Such a shame that HBO couldn't (wouldn't...) give this show a four year run. After this series is over I'd like to pick up a book about this period in Roman history, any one have any suggestions?

Gibbon would work, but you may have more fun if you rent the entire "I Claudius" series from Netflix and look up the various people/events on Wikipedia.

Or better still get over to Borders and buy the two Robert Graves paperback novels "I Claudius" and "Claudius the God." Gives you lots of the history in a really entertaining package.

Hey everyone! I'm new to the forums (been a longtime lurker) and I just wanted to share my thoughts on this show.

My family just got HBO and this is their first show I've seen in HD (instead of the DVDs). Yeah, this show is basically a big expensive soap opera, but to me at least it's astounding how Rome hasn't had any good exposure or word of mouth - kinda underrated. IMHO it's probably the best show airing on TV right now ... 24 is too predictable (though still a guilty pleasure) and I stopped watching Lost because of the new 10 pm time slot.

And is it just me or does Rome have some seriously good HD? Except for a miniscule bit of macroblocking for a couple busy seconds, this is probably one of the prettiest things I've seen on my Panny - the excellent cinematography doesn't hurt at all. :)

Rome wasn't built in a day... But in only survived 2 seasons

sorry couldn't resist. I am bummed it will be over soon, great show...and I am sorry to state with no Deadwood, Rome, and Last Sopranos...guess it will be heave-HoBO for me soon.

I was about to write that they had no choice because he was much older at the time. I'm glad I checked before posting that. Turns out his political career started at 15, and he was only 18 at the time of the current episode. That wouldn't have been too hard to pull off with the original actor. To me, this means they are planning to go far into Octavian's reign where a change would be necessary anyway, and it would be easier to pull off while he hasn't been seen in a while.Good point.

The previous actor was certainly believable at 18, but he wouldn't work for Octavian at 25-30.

Good point.

The previous actor was certainly believable at 18, but he wouldn't work for Octavian at 25-30.

Considering Max Pirkis is 18 years old today, yes it would be believable. Perhaps the final chapters are going to be in that 25-30+ range and they decided that it was time to change the actor now to continue continuity.

Everytime someone mentions Deadwood I get upset. Man, that decision really bugs me. What an awesome show, one of the best I've ever seen.

yeah, it really pisses me off too.

Is this the final season of Rome? that really sucks too. May have to drop HBO after they wrap up the Soprano's in June.

I think what Max Pirkis had in his favor is he just gives off the aura of being super smart, shrewd beyond his years. He had it in Master and Commander (the Russel Crowe flick) and he displayed it again in Rome. It's easier for me to see men following the Pirkis version then it is to see them following someone else who may be older but doesn't give off that genius vibe.

Take the scene where Pullo relies on Octavian for guidance in dealing with Niobe's boyfriend. The balance of power (for lack of a better term) in that torture scene seemed natural in spite of Pullo being an experience soldier and Octavian being a kid.

yeah, it really pisses me off too.

Is this the final season of Rome? that really sucks too. May have to drop HBO after they wrap up the Soprano's in June.

Yes, last season of Rome. I believe they said it is to expensive to keep going.

I don't understand why its so expensive for them?? Its not like there have been any(many) large battle scenes or anything. Most of the show is dialogue in the same locations between the main characters.

Another fine episode. I am so hooked on this series. ..

I don't understand why its so expensive for them?? Its not like there have been any(many) large battle scenes or anything. Most of the show is dialogue in the same locations between the main characters.

Lots of reasons why this has been a very expensive production: the vast sets that they built, including a mock-up of the Roman Forum. All the period costumes and relatively large numbers of extras, all of whom needed to look authentic. And the fact that they film on location in Italy. It all adds up. But, again, it's something that HBO can easily afford given their equally vast profit margins.

You'd think a large part of the expense was already absorbed by Season 1's $100 million investment in all the sets and startup costs.

Lots of reasons why this has been a very expensive production: the vast sets that they built, including a mock-up of the Roman Forum. All the period costumes and relatively large numbers of extras, all of whom needed to look authentic. And the fact that they film on location in Italy. It all adds up. But, again, it's something that HBO can easily afford given their equally vast profit margins.

What percent of the budget did the BBC pick up?

I think what Max Pirkis had in his favor is he just gives off the aura of being super smart, shrewd beyond his years. He had it in Master and Commander (the Russel Crowe flick) and he displayed it again in Rome. It's easier for me to see men following the Pirkis version then it is to see them following someone else who may be older but doesn't give off that genius vibe.

agreed completely. I don't get that feeling of the new actor at all. He's seems more like an overwhelmed child than the original actor, which seems pretty ironic since that seems to be why they moved away from him.

Aside from the actor change, it seems they're even making the character "less smart". The whole thing about declaring Brutus a murderer and then being suprised when it was announced Brutus was marching towards Rome. That seems something the "old" Octavius would have planned for, yet he says "I don't know" and is scared when asked what he plans to do with it. That whole thing just seemed out of character to me based on what they built up in season 1 for Octavius.

Hey everyone! I'm new to the forums (been a longtime lurker) and I just wanted to share my thoughts on this show.

...and I stopped watching Lost because of the new 10 pm time slot.


Welcome to the forums...have you heard of Tivo? Not sure who your cable company is, but you might want to consider getting yourself a SA8300HD. Then you can watch Lost whenever you want. I can't imagine cutting a show from my list because of what time it's on.

great episode of Rome again, doesn't his daughter know that the wifes death was an accident? Maybe I missed a few scenes but I don't trust the daughter..Hail Caesar!

great episode of Rome again, doesn't his daughter know that the wifes death was an accident? Maybe I missed a few scenes but I don't trust the daughter..Hail Caesar!

I was under the impression that she committed suicide.

I was under the impression that she committed suicide.
She did, but it was after a heck of a fight about the father of the little boy. The daughter probably figures if Vorenus had been a little more forgiving, the mother might still be alive.

She did, but it was after a heck of a fight about the father of the little boy. The daughter probably figures if Vorenus had been a little more forgiving, the mother might still be alive.

yup, and Vorenus was holding a knife. She knew that he may have killed her anyway, had she not jumped.

yup, and Vorenus was holding a knife. She knew that he may have killed her anyway, had she not jumped.I don't believe forgiveness was one of the many Roman virtues. Honor to one's name and ancestors was a driving force that morals sort of warped around. Pater familias had life and death authority over the direct family. Thus if Vorenus felt dishonored, he was totally justified in killing wife, bastard child and any other children that lifted an eyebrow about it. It's spoken of enough in history, we just don't know how prevalent or bloody minded the average family head really was regarding capital family offenses.

She should beg forgiveness from her father. She lied to him when she said the boy was hers, and Vorenus forgave her. Plus he spared the boys life.

She should be grateful that her little sister isn't an only child now.

HBO want Sopranos type ratings vs costs--back in the day when Sopranos was just hitting it's peak ratings-wise (11 million viewers+ per episode) but before the cast started getting big money.

If Rome, Deadwood, Carnivale pulled in 9 million viewers (more than twice what they actually do/did) then HBO would be happy. I honestly think HBO still makes a profit off of these shows at around 4 million viewers from 'The Buzz', the DVD sales etc.

It's just not a big enough profit to excite HBO. Kind of like a baseball player who hits a lot of doubles, but the owner insists on homeruns.

Welcome to the forums...have you heard of Tivo? Not sure who your cable company is, but you might want to consider getting yourself a SA8300HD. Then you can watch Lost whenever you want. I can't imagine cutting a show from my list because of what time it's on.

Especially when the 1st episode since coming back was killer

She did, but it was after a heck of a fight about the father of the little boy. The daughter probably figures if Vorenus had been a little more forgiving, the mother might still be alive.

Vorenus is not the forgiving type, he is a stubborn bad ass. And he can remove your head with the best of them ;)

The best made-for-television series that's ever been made.

yup, and Vorenus was holding a knife. She knew that he may have killed her anyway, had she not jumped.

I don't think the kids know that she had jumped. Who would have told them? They showed up, she was dead, and her husband standing over her with a knife. Then he goes into a rampage about the boy, curses all of them, and leaves. Then they are kidnapped.

I think as far as they know he killed her, which is the point.

Yep, there has been NO indication that the children know their mother committed suicide. Only one living person knows what happened and that is Vorenus.

Rome is by far my favorite show on TV right now, but its lack of popularity does not surprise me. In the beginning of season 1, I gave the first episode a try and didn't make it through the first episode. I did not give the show a second chance until this January when I was out of commission for a few days and dreadfully bored, so I gave the show another try during the season 1 countdown On Demand. I may not have gotten into it if not for watching multiple episodes in a couple of days. I also think that the excess nudity and violence turns many people off.

I am sad this will be the last season, but I understand why. In addition to the expensive nature of the production, I have a difficult time seeing how they could further the story line much longer after Octavian wins the power struggle. It's true that ancient Rome has a rich history like no other, but the current set of characters would have run their course and have no compelling role to play. Any attempt at concocting some sort of story would likely result in a disastrous piece of garbarge. For the show to move on they would have to overhaul the entire project, and I doubt that is feasible.

One of my favorite season 1 characters was Max Pirkis's Octavian. I thought he did a damn fine job of taking Octavian from a whiny little aristocrat to a mature (sans incest) and cunning figure. The new actor seems a little fruity, IMHO, but I am sure I will adjust, much like a grew to like Ceaser's actor in the first season.

On a side note, my Comcast service does not offer an HD-HBO On Demand. Is there another provider that has exclusive rights to this?

On a side note, my Comcast service does not offer an HD-HBO On Demand. Is there another provider that has exclusive rights to this?It's not yet available. Look for it in 2H 2007.

I am sad this will be the last season, but I understand why. In addition to the expensive nature of the production, I have a difficult time seeing how they could further the story line much longer after Octavian wins the power struggle. It won't happen, but things get very interesting during Augustus reign through to Nero as portrayed in I Claudius. That would be a production I'd like to see re-done with Rome's production values. The 13 eps of I Claudius might not be improvable performance wise, but the storylines, poisonings, murders, betrayals and just plain madness would be compelling to see again in HD. Maybe a grassroots effort...yeah, right :p

What the heck is Attia up to in the last episode?

Her about-face in regards to her son is baffling. I know it ended up joining him and Antony together, but surely her motivations are more nefarious than that.

Maybe she expects Antony to take over her son's legions?

What the heck is Attia up to in the last episode?

Her about-face in regards to her son is baffling. I know it ended up joining him and Antony together, but surely her motivations are more nefarious than that.

Maybe she expects Antony to take over her son's legions?She's just thinking of herself, as always?

We didn't see what happened after she came into the room after Octavian was told of Brutus' incoming "20 legions." However, after what Attia just did to Servilia, I'm sure she wasn't thrilled about the possibility of Brutus returning to Rome with an army. It's also clearly in the best interest of Octavian and Antony to stop Brutus, so I doubt it was a hard sell.

Does anyone recall how many legions Antony was said to have?

Does anyone recall how many legions Antony was said to have?

It all depends how many times Rome inadvertently sent reinforcements. :D

It all depends how many times Rome inadvertently sent reinforcements. :DI got the impression that Cicero sent these armies knowing that they would join Antony.

Did he do this because he believed they would join Octavian if they were left in/around Rome? Otherwise, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Good episode last nite, the hit list expanded to 1,000. Finally a good battle scene at the end. Anybody know how many men in a legion?

It was a good episode but very apparent they're flying through this season at break neck pace. :(

tv.com shows the next episode as March 4th, is there something going on next week?

Good episode last nite, the hit list expanded to 1,000. Finally a good battle scene at the end. Anybody know how many men in a legion?
I believe Brutus remarked having 100,000 men to feed. So if he had 14 legions (don't recall exactly), that would be ~7000 men/each, give or take.

tv.com shows the next episode as March 4th, is there something going on next week?

Academy Awards.

Two thumbs up for Octavia's performance last night. Truly riveting. ;)

Good episode last nite, the hit list expanded to 1,000. Finally a good battle scene at the end. Anybody know how many men in a legion?A Roman legion had 5000-6000 men.

I found it particularly interesting that Brutus getting killed by the soldiers (completely surrounded, and stabbings from all directions) was almost identical to the way that he and the senators killed Caesar. Poetic justice?

A very good episode last night ... though as you guys said somewhat rushed llike all the episodes this season have been.

The battle scene was also pretty good, especially for a TV show. Those CG shots were very convincing. The only problem I had with it was that they still relied too much on close camera shots to hide the fact that they don't have a lot of extras, and that they didn't really show the strategy behind the fighting - minor quibbles.

Oh, and the picture quality (almost no compression!) and sound quality were both superb last night - hearing the leather clothing creaking or the arrows flying around was awesome. :D

I found it particularly interesting that Brutus getting killed by the soldiers (completely surrounded, and stabbings from all directions) was almost identical to the way that he and the senators killed Caesar. Poetic justice?

And that is not, historically, the way it actually happened. There were actually 2 battles. Antony beat Cassius in the first go around but Brutus got the better of Octavian. In the second battle Octavian is the victor and Brutus goes off into the hills and commits suicide. It was more dramatic this way.

Academy Awards.

So HBO isn't phased by the Super Bowl, but bows to the Academy Awards? ;)

If 'Rome' had all it's battle scenes portrayed like they were last night, it might have gotten better ratings. For once it was nice to see full blown battle!

So HBO isn't phased by the Super Bowl, but bows to the Academy Awards? ;)

Kind of an unwritten rule that you don't agressively counter-program awards shows for the talent you regularly feature on your network. (Unless you're ABC and you're pissed at the lack of a nomination for Lost ;) )

Did anyone else find Pullo's visit to kill Cicero humorous?

hey Im here to kill you
Really? just give me a few minutes to get ready and sum up some courage
What beautiful peaches. Can I have some peaches?
O sure take all you like.

This could have been a scene from a Monty Python flick or something from SNL

Did anyone else find Pullo's visit to kill Cicero humorous?

hey Im here to kill you
Really? just give me a few minutes to get ready and sum up some courage
What beautiful peaches. Can I have some peaches?
O sure take all you like.

This could have been a scene from a Monty Python flick or something from SNL

That was great!

Did anyone else find Pullo's visit to kill Cicero humorous?

hey Im here to kill you
Really? just give me a few minutes to get ready and sum up some courage
What beautiful peaches. Can I have some peaches?
O sure take all you like.

This could have been a scene from a Monty Python flick or something from SNL

Oh yeah, hilarious scene. :D

The actual killing was rather convincing too.

THe show has new life. Finally some boobs, violence, and humor! That chick is sooo sexy. It 's great to see real breasts on tv once in a while.

Oh yeah, hilarious scene. :D

The actual killing was rather convincing too.

Actually the killing stroke was one of the few things that was historically accurate in this series. I made a documentary, along with Atlantic Productions, called "True Gladiators" for Discovery Channel (available on DVD), and this stroke was diagnosed in our film as an "instant kill" technique since the sword plunge should have severed the main arteries leading to the brain and sliced straight threw the heart and it's arteries. Regardless, it will never be a viable substitute for dying in your sleep from natural causes. As for the death of Brutus, I still prefer the noble, historically correct version left to us by the late actor James Mason. Class...class, all the way.

Oh yeah, hilarious scene. :D

The actual killing was rather convincing too.
That was the only convincing thing.

Actually the killing stroke was one of the few things that was historically accurate in this series. I made a documentary, along with Atlantic Productions, called "True Gladiators" for Discovery Channel (available on DVD), and this stroke was diagnosed in our film as an "instant kill" technique since the sword plunge should have severed the main arteries leading to the brain and sliced straight threw the heart and it's arteries. Regardless, it will never be a viable substitute for dying in your sleep from natural causes. As for the death of Brutus, I still prefer the noble, historically correct version left to us by the late actor James Mason. Class...class, all the way.
Yeah Brad Pit killed a lot of people that way in Troy.

And that is not, historically, the way it actually happened. There were actually 2 battles. Antony beat Cassius in the first go around but Brutus got the better of Octavian. In the second battle Octavian is the victor and Brutus goes off into the hills and commits suicide. It was more dramatic this way.


The way this whole thing was portrayed really irked me, and I am normally fairly forgiving for historical inacuracies, but everyone whos has any sense of history knows that Brutus killed himself with a sword to the belly. Having him charge Anthony's army was absurd and far less dramatic than a somewhat historically accurate portrayal would have been. I can forgive combining the two battles into one, but Brutus should still have been made to do the "honorable" thing.


And by "honorable" I mean in the Roman tradition.


That is really my only complaint about this show though, well expect for it coming to an end. This show really needed a 5 season arc

Also, I will go on record as saying I am a big fan of Octavia's boobies, even though I don't think her face is attractive at all. I kind of wish Atia didn't Pork up in the offseason so we could some more glimpses of her "assets" as well.

The way this whole thing was portrayed really irked me, and I am normally fairly forgiving for historical inacuracies, but everyone whos has any sense of history knows that Brutus killed himself with a sword to the belly.
That's why it's a drama and not a documentary. History is far more boring than you think. ;)

History is destined to repeat itself. That being the case, I'd just as soon Hollywood focus on the fiction since we'll have a shot at seeing the history during a repeat. ;).

Seems like the "new" Octavian relies too much on his "consigliere". Not only is there a new actor playing Octavian, it seems like a totally different persona as well! He is written as to not appear as shrewd as the younger version. I don't understand this departure.

Also, I will go on record as saying I am a big fan of Octavia's boobies, even though I don't think her face is attractive at all. I kind of wish Atia didn't Pork up in the offseason so we could some more glimpses of her "assets" as well.

Agree completely on both Octavia and Attia.

Just remember that a girl will sometime plump up when she's pining away for her absent lover (Antony). :D

The way this whole thing was portrayed really irked me, and I am normally fairly forgiving for historical inacuracies, but everyone whos has any sense of history knows that Brutus killed himself with a sword to the belly. Having him charge Anthony's army was absurd and far less dramatic than a somewhat historically accurate portrayal would have been. I can forgive combining the two battles into one, but Brutus should still have been made to do the "honorable" thing.


And by "honorable" I mean in the Roman tradition...




Yes, but I think you're missing the dramatic intent of the story's retelling. Brutus' decision to wade in without armor gives us the opportunity to see him stabbed multiple times, rather painfully, in fashion similar to the death of Caesar himself.

It's called dramatic irony.

And just by the way: do we know with certainty Brutus fell on his sword? Is this verified historical fact or was it merely Shakespeare's way of retelling the story?

Only four episodes left. :(

Btw, I'm also a big fan of Vorenus' slave/madame/whatever. I had actually thought they had a "good" plotline in store for her, but after last episode's attempt at seducing Pullo, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Btw, I'm also a big fan of Vorenus' slave/madame/whatever. I had actually thought they had a "good" plotline in store for her, but after last episode's attempt at seducing Pullo, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Now if only the two of them could learn to do a sex scene. The one they had was incredibly fake.

And just by the way: do we know with certainty Brutus fell on his sword? Is this verified historical fact or was it merely Shakespeare's way of retelling the story?

There are many areas that speak of suicide. This one is the best:

After the murder of Caesar, Brutus went east and, in the republican cause, joined Cassius and held Macedonia with him. Late in 42 B.C., Octavian (later Augustus) and Antony arrived, and a battle was fought at Philippi. When it went against the republicans, Brutus committed suicide.

The Columbia Encyclopedia 6th Edition
http://www.bartleby.com/65/br/Brutus.html

I think it was a good idea to do it within one episode. It would have been far worse if he just showed up like that in a new episode. Such a shame that HBO couldn't (wouldn't...) give this show a four year run. After this series is over I'd like to pick up a book about this period in Roman history, any one have any suggestions?

Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic
by Tom Holland

http://www.amazon.com/Rubicon-Last-Years-Roman-Republic/dp/1400078970/sr=1-1/qid=1172111678/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3949511-9592829?ie=UTF8&s=books

Also, I will go on record as saying I am a big fan of Octavia's boobies, even though I don't think her face is attractive at all.

yeah, I wouldn't mind splitting a hooka with her :)

I didn't realize or it didn't register that this week was a re-run. Man was I ticked off when I tuned in and found this out. I almost had withdrawl symptoms. :D Now I have to wait another week to get my Rome fix.

Seems like the "new" Octavian relies too much on his "consigliere". Not only is there a new actor playing Octavian, it seems like a totally different persona as well! He is written as to not appear as shrewd as the younger version. I don't understand this departure.

couldn't agree more, and I made a similar comment earlier in the thread. Seems just a completely different character (aside from being a different actor). As you mention, it appears he was shrewder as a younger teenager (enough to impress Caesar himself) and now doesn't even think far enough ahead to realize that declaring Cassius and Brutus murders would force them to march on Rome (he was suprised and didn't know what to do when he learned of their advance).

couldn't agree more, and I made a similar comment earlier in the thread. Seems just a completely different character (aside from being a different actor). As you mention, it appears he was shrewder as a younger teenager (enough to impress Caesar himself) and now doesn't even think far enough ahead to realize that declaring Cassius and Brutus murders would force them to march on Rome (he was suprised and didn't know what to do when he learned of their advance).


I do know what you mean, just as Ceasar had an aura about himbefore his murder, he would "demand" your attention with any scene he was in, The original Octavian was beginning to deliver that same type of performance, where as this new Octavian does not seem to have that aura.

Are you sure Octavian wasn't just surprised at the size of Cassius and Brutus's armies, instead of them coming to regain their honor?

Are you sure Octavian wasn't just surprised at the size of Cassius and Brutus's armies, instead of them coming to regain their honor?

Notice also the subtle business about not executing anyone on Antony's wishlist ...

Anyway, I suspect the newfound "stumbling" by Octavian was as much about giving Atia a dramatic purpose in the "big picture" as anything else.

From Wikipedia:

While in Egypt, Antony had been conducting an affair with Cleopatra that resulted in three children, Alexander Helios, Cleopatra Selene, and Ptolemy Philadelphus. Aware of his deteriorating relationship with Octavian, Antony left Cleopatra. Fulvia's death allowed for the two triumvirs to effect a reconciliation. Octavian gave his sister, Octavia, in marriage to Antony in 40 BC. During their marriage, Octavia gave birth to two daughters, both named Antonia. In 37 BC, Antony deserted Octavia and went back to Egypt to be with Cleopatra. The Roman dominions were then divided between Octavian in the West and Antony in the East.


How much can they possibly play out in 4 episodes? Its a shame its ending so soon.

Notice also the subtle business about not executing anyone on Antony's wishlist ...

Yes, but Pullo made up for that by cutting Cicero's hands off and nailing them to the door, just as Antony requested.....

:D

Amazing episode tonight,a whole helluva lot going on.
Best line of the show....Antony.."Now that was an exit!" :D Hilarious

"There's no way I'm marrying him"

The actor playing Octavian is doing a fine job to be sure, and he really looks the part, it's just such a different person then that of the previous actor.

As for the pacing and number of seasons left--wouldn't it just be perfect if HBO/BBC had entered into this venture with deal for a set number of episodes? It would be brave, but at some point it would have made sense for HBO and BBC to say 'If we can't pull this off, then no one can'. Let's say a four season arc, 48 episodes. It would have been enough to let the story play out through Octavian's reign. The writers would be able to graph out precisely where they need to be with each episode (more or less).

I know that's not how things work, I guess I'm just dreaming of a better system. Besides, it's not like we're talking about introducing some run of the mill sitcom, we're talking blockbuster sized historical Rome here! You have to commit to something of that scope.

It is interesting how the whole Avantine is turning into the Sopranos with Lucius Vorenus playing a skewed kind of good Tony Soprano, bad Tony Soprono. They could do a spin off on just that and I would bet it would have an audience. (Reminds me of the episode in season 2 when Tony is beating up the Jewish motel owners son and he tells Tony that the Jews defeated the Romans and there are no more and Tony's response is "But we ARE the Romans." OOOHHH!! What goes around, comes around.)

Amazing episode tonight,a whole helluva lot going on.
Best line of the show....Antony.."Now that was an exit!" :D Hilarious

Yeah, a real nose gusher!!

And while I think of it, is it just me or does season 2 seem to be more "british" in the dialog than season 1? More BBC influence than HBO? ("Bollicks", "get my kit", British sense of humor. Thngs like that.)

I guess the slave girl is going to kill titus pullo's wife's baby and possibly her too by slipping her the abortion potion.

Yeah, a real nose gusher!!

And while I think of it, is it just me or does season 2 seem to be more "british" in the dialog than season 1? More BBC influence than HBO? ("Bollicks", "get my kit", British sense of humor. Thngs like that.)

I agree.

Anthony has stolen the season for comedy and fun. Not that he wasn't good last year, but he took it to a new level. He had at least 3-4 great lines last night.

"I know you're not happy about this whole marriage thing, but . . . . it is our wedding night..."

Be careful with the spoilers, guys.

I don't see any spoilers.

Antony to Octavia, "Now this is strange."

"I know you're not happy about this whole marriage thing, but . . . . it is our wedding night..."
great line. How dead is Antony's former slave going to be? I bet he bites the dust next week.

Yeah, I was pretty shocked at Antony's slave's behavior too. And, Antony had just made him a free man too. AND aligned him with a young (somewhat) hot piece of action. Some gratitude.

Once again, Antony has all the best lines. There were so many that it's hard to remember them all, though some are mentioned above. What a scoundrel.

Pretty shocked at Pullo's action with the slave girl, though I might be tempted by her too. ;) I just figured Pullo was a better man than that, but I guess it is tough when your wife is holding out on you based on her primitive beliefs.

I noticed Attia's post-coital scene had her with a shirt on...that wouldn't have happened last season. Too bad she porked up so much between the two.

I noticed Attia's post-coital scene had her with a shirt on...that wouldn't have happened last season. Too bad she porked up so much between the two.

Which actually would have made a nude scene with her even better (she hasn't porked up that much, after all). But maybe it's made her more shy. ;)

Which actually would have made a nude scene with her even better (she hasn't porked up that much, after all). But maybe it's made her more shy. ;)

I think that's mostly it. The camera angle they used would've been fine for her, ah, "more voluptious" figure. :)

Am I the only one who thinks the actor playing Anthony has more than a slight resembalance to the young Brando?

Yeah, I was pretty shocked at Antony's slave's behavior too. And, Antony had just made him a free man too. AND aligned him with a young (somewhat) hot piece of action. Some gratitude..

Actually Bosco (Bosca?) was Julius Caeser's slave and was freed in Caeser's will. He hung around with Antony as an adviser, for lack of anywhere else to go. ... In this production anyway. IRL, who knows.

Actually Bosco (Bosca?) was Julius Caeser's slave and was freed in Caeser's will. He hung around with Antony as an adviser, for lack of anywhere else to go. ... In this production anyway. IRL, who knows.

That's right, thanks.

He's still in a heap of trouble if Antony finds out though. :D

He's still in a heap of trouble if Antony finds out though. :D

Humm maybe. OTOH, under Julius' regime, I get the impression that Bosca actually wielded more "real" power as a slave than Antony did as a free man, thus, perhaps, explaining his "impudence" toward Antony. But that's just my impression. ;)

Humm maybe. OTOH, under Julius' regime, I get the impression that Bosca actually wielded more "real" power as a slave than Antony did as a free man, thus, perhaps, explaining his "impudence" toward Antony. But that's just my impression. ;)

Exactly, but JC is now dead and gone and the hot-tempered Mark Antony is in (part) power. I'm sure he would be interested in getting his revenge if he found out what Bosca did.

Actually Bosco (Bosca?)

Posca

That's right, thanks.

He's still in a heap of trouble if Antony finds out though. :D
finds out? Antony knows, he aint that dumb.

Amazing episode tonight,a whole helluva lot going on.
Best line of the show....Antony.."Now that was an exit!" :D Hilarious

Antony complaining that he wanted lions to pull his chariot, and that the ones he had weren't worth a damn...they won't pull and one of them bit off his servants hand.

Antony complaining that he wanted lions to pull his chariot, and that the ones he had weren't worth a damn...they won't pull and one of them bit off his servants hand.

Yep, hilarious. I think this will be our only reference to this supposed event, it would be too expensive (CGI) for them to actually shoot. Would be nice to be wrong though.

Good episode, the kid playing Octavian did good job, his best performance so far. The brief shot of Alexandria even looked better--more convincing--then the last time we saw egypt. This show really needs another season to wrap things up, and I'm getting more and more pissed at HBO as we count the episodes down. Oh well, two to go.

Good episode, the kid playing Octavian did good job, his best performance so far. The brief shot of Alexandria even looked better--more convincing--then the last time we saw egypt. This show really needs another season to wrap things up, and I'm getting more and more pissed at HBO as we count the episodes down. Oh well, two to go.
My feelings exactly. As I was watching the confrontation between him and Antony, I understood better the re-casting. With the original Octavian, Antony's referring to him as "boy" would have had more impact and you would have half-expected Antony to wipe the floor with him. This more mature version, while equally arrogant, was strong enough to give Antony pause. For me, it worked.

And, yes, I'm already going through withdrawl. :(

Am I the only one who thinks the actor playing Anthony has more than a slight resembalance to the young Brando?No. At certain angles the resemblance is uncanny.

I loved the part where Octavian informed his perspective wife that he would beat her for sexual pleasure! :D

And next weeks episode, I bet Marc Anthony is wonder why he didn't wear that eye makeup before. Pimpin' Baby! :cool:

Dang, the latest episode was just excellent. Probably the biggest number of (good) staredowns in the whole series, so far. Octavian and Antony, Vorenus and his daughter, Pullo and the other captain (and biting out his tongue - heh!), the two centurions, Octavia and Agrippa, Antony looking at Cleopatra at the end ... And it all came together perfectly from the characters motivations and the story narrative. It gave me shivers.

I can't imagine why HBO can't scrounge up enough money for another season (but then I'm not an accountant). Big Love has it's moments, but it's not enough to keep me subscribed (once the Sopranos is finished). I see rumors where HBO has bought rights to the "Song of Ice and Fire" (George RR Martin), which has the potential (if done right) to be every bit as good and big a spectacle as Lord of the Rings. But that would be years and years in the future (and it would need to be 3 or 4 seasons to be done well ... or maybe even a season per book - 7).

Just remember that Caesar was assassinated in 44 BC and Octavian defeated Antony in 43 BC and the great purge where Cicero is murdered happened around 39 or 40 BC and Octavian and Antony split in 33 BC (last nights episode) so we are talking about 10 years of time here. It wouldn't make sense for the young Octavian to still be there if 10 years has past. Historically Antony only has a little over 2 years to live (he died in August of 30 BC) The marriage of Octavia to Antony was in 40 BC and both Antony and Ocatvian had both been married and divorced by that time, (Octavian to Antony's step-daughter, Clodia Pulchra) something the series has failed to show.

We saw Atia keep her top on twice in parts where she would have been unfettered last year. Great episode beside that.

I think the casting on this series has been excellent with one exception. Whenever they build up to an appearance of Cleopatra I find myself dissapointed when the actress playing her makes her enterance. She just doesn't have the powerful beauty and presence that I imagine Cleopatra to have.

I think the casting on this series has been excellent with one exception. Whenever they build up to an appearance of Cleopatra I find myself dissapointed when the actress playing her makes her enterance. She just doesn't have the mesmerizing beauty that I imagine Cleopatra to have.

Yea I keep thinking Elaine Beness (Seinfeld) when I see her... :eek:

Yea I keep thinking Elaine Beness (Seinfeld) when I see her... :eek:

Ha...yep.

Now that you mention it though, Elaine in a see-through dress would have been kind of hot. :p

Ha...yep.

Now that you mention it though, Elaine in a see-through dress would have been kind of hot. :p

Hope she doesn't start dancin'.... :D

I like Cleopatra. Looked even better last night.

Last night after the show, they said only 2 episodes left. I guess there are just 10 episodes this season. I was thinking there were 12. During last night's episode I was like " 4 more episodes until the end of a great show." Then I find out there are only 2 left. I hope they at least make a 3 1/2 hour movie or something. I hate it that this is the end.

I think the casting on this series has been excellent with one exception. Whenever they build up to an appearance of Cleopatra I find myself dissapointed when the actress playing her makes her enterance. She just doesn't have the powerful beauty and presence that I imagine Cleopatra to have.

Historically Cleopatra was no beauty. She was short and stocky. The whole "beauty" thing was a marketing thing she did for a legacy and it worked! She was extremely ruthless and self centered.

Historically Cleopatra was no beauty. She was short and stocky. The whole "beauty" thing was a marketing thing she did for a legacy and it worked!
Dude! Buzzkill! ;)

I hate it that this is the end.

And the end is artificially accelerated. It is distracting to view the past three or so episodes because the pace of events is so quick compared to what the show has been. It's almost like 1/4 the way into the season's episode editing, the brass said "boys, get this done in six more episodes. You don't have eight to work with."

[selfish mode on] I have a lot invested into watching this series and I deserve the full treatment as we come to a conclusion.[/selfish mode off] :D

Historically Cleopatra was no beauty. She was short and stocky. The whole "beauty" thing was a marketing thing she did for a legacy and it worked! She was extremely ruthless and self centered.


Right.

Accounts from the time spoke of her charming with the force of her personality and conversation rather than great beauty. The coin of her face made during her life is not attractive.
I think the casting did a great job of finding an actress whose profile resembles Cleopatra's while still being pretty attractive...

I think the casting did a great job of finding an actress whose profile resembles Cleopatra's while still being pretty attractive...

Yup. If it worked for Pullo, it works for me. :)

Just read a review and they weren't all that impressed (two out of four stars) but it's back at 9:00PM Sunday.This from the thread starter way back when. Goes to show how wrong reviewers can be.

In a perfect world, we would have year after year of Rome and could watch Vorenus and Pullo getting old before our eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRinDenver
Am I the only one who thinks the actor playing Anthony has more than a slight resembalance to the young Brando?

No. At certain angles the resemblance is uncanny.


Last night when he was yelling "Attia!" I kept imagining him yelling "Stella"!

This from the thread starter way back when. Goes to show how wrong reviewers can be.

In a perfect world, we would have year after year of Rome and could watch Vorenus and Pullo getting old before our eyes.Well, IIRC the show was a bit slow to come up to speed. Seems to me it took 3-4 ep to really get rolling. It was definitely worth the wait though :).


ron

Isn't it Agrippa who defeats Anthony at Achiem (sp?).

Trying to remember my ancient Rome History......Anthony had Octavian outnumbered 4-1, but made the boneheaded decision to fight on sea rather than land...I have no idea how HBO is going to pull that one off, thats some serious $$$ CGI right there.

This shouldn't qualify as a spoiler, since its in just about any history book, right?

This from the thread starter way back when. Goes to show how wrong reviewers can be.

In a perfect world, we would have year after year of Rome and could watch Vorenus and Pullo getting old before our eyes.

I agree. I wish this show had several more seasons coming. IMDB.com has this rated 9.2 out of 10. That is a fantastic rating.

Isn't it Agrippa who defeats Anthony at Achiem (sp?).

Trying to remember my ancient Rome History......Anthony had Octavian outnumbered 4-1, but made the boneheaded decision to fight on sea rather than land...I have no idea how HBO is going to pull that one off, thats some serious $$$ CGI right there.

This shouldn't qualify as a spoiler, since its in just about any history book, right?


From Wikipedia:

Battle of Actium

The Battle of Actium was a naval battle of the Roman Civil War between Mark Antony and Octavian (Caesar Augustus). It was fought on September 2, 31 BC, near the Roman colony of Actium in Greece (near the modern-day city of Preveza), on the Ionian Sea. Octavian's fleet was commanded by Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, Antony's fleet was supported by the fleet of his lover, Cleopatra, queen of Ptolemaic Egypt. The battle was won by the forces of Octavian, whose victory led him to be titled the Princeps Augustus, and eventually to be considered the first Roman Emperor; for this reason the date of the battle is often used to mark the end of the Roman Republic and the beginning of the Roman Empire.

Agrippa was quite the general in his own right basically leading Octavian's forces in to victory after victory and allowing Octavian to become ruler of the Roman Empire.

He also was quite the architect. He desgined Hadrian's Pantheon.

His grandson was Caligula.

Here is the wiki url for Agrippa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Vipsanius_Agrippa

Another fantastic episode of a great show. God how I hate what HBO has become when great shows like this and Deadwood are cancelled prematurely. After the Sopranos is over, I'll probably pull the plug on HBO after many years.
Bish

Excellent episode - probably the best of this season! I love this show! I'm going to go into serious withdrawals after Rome ends in 2 eps...

Another fantastic episode of a great show. God how I hate what HBO has become when great shows like this and Deadwood are cancelled prematurely. After the Sopranos is over, I'll probably pull the plug on HBO after many years.
Bish

Excuse me if I find this logic a bit shortsighted. If it weren't for HBO, you wouldn't see such fine programming at all. Everything in entertainment (TV, movies, sports, etc) has its business side. While we may wish it were different, it isn't. Yes, it can be tough to lose such a quality show, but much tougher, IMO, to never have seen it all. I'll take these two terrific seasons of Rome (and many other examples) and continue to subscribe. Pulling the plug on HBO is your right - and more importantly, your loss.

Excuse me if I find this logic a bit shortsighted. If it weren't for HBO, you wouldn't see such fine programming at all. Everything in entertainment (TV, movies, sports, etc) has its business side. While we may wish it were different, it isn't. Yes, it can be tough to lose such a quality show, but much tougher, IMO, to never have seen it all. I'll take these two terrific seasons of Rome (and many other examples) and continue to subscribe. Pulling the plug on HBO is your right - and more importantly, your loss.
Fair enough. It's kind of like a love/hate relationship. We're grateful to HBO for making these fantastic series yet hate them for cancelling them too soon for a lot of viewers. Though you have to admit that cancelling Carnivale and, in particular, Deadwood were shortsighted decisions - give those shows at least one more season to complete the story arc, dammit! :cool:

Interesting that time is so accelerated in some areas (historical events), but is frozen in others (the age of Vorenus' children). I guess there was really no other way to do it.

Love this show, and I really feel for Vorenus' character in this. Pullo always entertains. :)

The brawl at the end reminded me of "Gangs of New York".

I did not expect Pullo to do that.

...Though you have to admit that cancelling Carnivale and, in particular, Deadwood were shortsighted decisions - give those shows at least one more season to complete the story arc, dammit! :cool:

Absolutely, I agree. I have that same complaint with network shows that promise a complex storyline (The Nine, Invasion, Threshold, etc) and end them mid-story with no resolution whatever. I find it less troubling with HBO, given the content/quality and that they are less likely to cancel something mid-story/mid-season. They simply make a business decision that Rome (for example) though worthy, is simply too expensive to continue with its relatively small fan base. But don't you love it while you have it?

And those who so often post and threaten to cancel HBO, as I said, have that right. But they lose more than they gain IMO and are more shortsighted than HBO ever was. Plus, they undoubtedly will be back later when the next "big thing" comes on, as it always does. Seems kind of pointless to me.

And those who so often post and threaten to cancel HBO, as I said, have that right. But they lose more than they gain IMO and are more shortsighted than HBO ever was. Plus, they undoubtedly will be back later when the next "big thing" comes on, as it always does. Seems kind of pointless to me.

Unfortunately canceling a subscription is one of the only ways to influence the programming decisions made by a pay channel.

I'm curious as to how they'll wrap up the show. A naval battle probably can't be pulled off, so they will probably deviate from history there. How will the ending portray Octavian? Will we get a post show history lesson before the credits roll?

I liked the introduction of Livia. Very ominous if you're familiar with BBC's old production of "I, Claudius".

I was watching the episode again last night and am amazed at how great the HD quality and cinematography/lighting are on this show. 1) Did anyone else see the light literally fade from Eirene's eyes? Brilliant lighting, though I bet that was also altered afterwards. 2) Any scene involving Octavian/MarcAnthony/Atia/Octavia - really gorgeous costumes and great side lighting. 3) When Anthony marches into Egypt, you can literally see all of the detail on the great gold doors ... and all the detail under Cleopatra's diaphanous dress ;) .

I would actually give this show a perfect 10 for PQ (and SQ) if it wasn't for the compression on the channel ... it was only really bad and distracting when Pullo ripped out Memmio's tongue and the fight that ensued. This is such a good show! I wish there was a bigger fan base so I could talk about it with people at school. :confused:

I'll cancel HBO because I see this cancellation of the blockbusters as a trend, not a matter of replacing one blockbuster for another. For whatever reason, the time of the massive scale HBO drama is drawing to a close. These shows made sense 4-5 years ago and HBO was rolling in the dough. Then they started cutting these big buzz worthy shows. When they're gone, all that's left is HBO as movie channel, and it's pretty much a second rate movie channel at that.
It's not vindictiveness, or sending a message. When the food's good at a restaurant, I eat there. If the food ceases to be good, I go elsewhere. Our relationship is that of consumer/merchant, we're not friends, I don't owe HBO any loyalty.

FX has taken HBO's place as the edgy network and the channel that offers great original programming.. The stuff I see on FX.. I never thought I would ever see on a cable channel. Plus the shows are great.

I think all of us are upset about HBO not making any more blockbuster series. But even more upsetting is that we know there is no other movie channel doing it. And no where else to go if you cancel HBO. HBO still has movies and Boxing and smaller series. Its a shame but showtime is no better. :(

I'll cancel HBO because I see this cancellation of the blockbusters as a trend, not a matter of replacing one blockbuster for another. For whatever reason, the time of the massive scale HBO drama is drawing to a close. These shows made sense 4-5 years ago and HBO was rolling in the dough. Then they started cutting these big buzz worthy shows. When they're gone, all that's left is HBO as movie channel, and it's pretty much a second rate movie channel at that.
It's not vindictiveness, or sending a message. When the food's good at a restaurant, I eat there. If the food ceases to be good, I go elsewhere. Our relationship is that of consumer/merchant, we're not friends, I don't owe HBO any loyalty.

I completely agree. I highly doubt that there will ever be anything as good as Rome, The Sopranos (seasons one and two), Six Feet Under (seasons one and two), Deadwood, Carnivale, Band of Brothers and From the Earth to the Moon on HBO again in my lifetime. However, I will continue to subcribe to HBO for Curb Your Enthusiasm, Entourage, Extras, Real Time and Big Love.

For those of you looking for the "next best thing" check out Dexter on Showtime when it comes out on dvd.

Someting tells me that we have internet downloading to blame for the loss of these great shows :( .

Another suggestion to check out Dexter if you want to see another show with comparable quality to Rome.

Someting tells me that we have internet downloading to blame for the loss of these great shows :( .

That's stupid, you are believing the BS the studio's are telling you. The people who download that stuff wouldn't pay for it in the first place. I find nothing more annoying then going to a theater and having to watch an advertisement telling me that stealing movies online is bad... I just paid $9 for to go here and studios are going to lecture me even though I'm being a good consumer.

HBO has gotten a lot more conservative and scared towards it's ratings, so it will not shell out big money for shows that J6P won't understand or appreciate (Carnivale & Deadwood).

For whatever reason, the time of the massive scale HBO drama is drawing to a close. These shows made sense 4-5 years ago and HBO was rolling in the dough. Then they started cutting these big buzz worthy shows.

Except that HBO is still "rolling in the dough". They made over a billion (yes, with a "b") in profit last year even after paying for the blockbuster series 'Rome' and 'Deadwood'. They've just gotten cheap, that's all, or the price of keeping an HBO executive happy and well fed has really gone up. It's sad, because as has been said again and again, if they don't do this kind of television, who will?

Hope everybody is enjoying 'Rome' and these (promised) last 4 hours of 'Deadwood' that they say they're going to produce, because when they're gone, we'll probably not see their like again.

Yeah I am keeping HBO for the rest of Rome and to finish up the Sopranos then it is gone. I NEVER watch movies on it and only had it for Sopranos, Entourage, Deadwood, Rome, and my wife used to watch Sex and the City and Sixfeet under. After the next few months they will only have entourage and I can get that when the dvd comes out.