I often hear people mention how many people are frequenting the various areas of AVS and thus this gives us a look at which format is currently "ahead." I personally treat these type of patterns much like the data we receive from such places as thedvdwars.com/Amazon or DVDEmpire.com. I think they are accurate in showing "trends."

I also feel AVS is very lopsided in HD-DVD's favor. This is fine, I just feel this site attacts a larger number of HD-DVD supporters vs. Blu-ray supporters. However 5 minutes a go I made a jpeg of the current visiting members. Look at the Software sections:

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8629/visitorsno7.jpg

~Josh

first!!
I really don't think this shows anything.

Now that CES is over Blu-ray talk is down.
The HD-DVD forums seem to still be practicing some serious damage control after what went on at CES.

Lately the conversation in the BD sections has been dead, while there seems to be some indignation, panic, and outright silliness in the HD-DVD sections. I've been checking in there just to see what's going on post-CES.

I noticed this as well when I logged in just now. Usually Blu-ray has only 1/2 to 2/3 the visitors of the HD DVD forums. This is very interesting. However, not to get too excited, I think we should see if this trend maintains and grows over time. It is a pleasent change, I'll admit that. :)

There's a lot more movies to talk about in BD now than the past. I think fundamentally, the negative atmosphere of mudslinging made the normal public who only wants to watch talk think movies stay away.

If we only talk about movies, pink rectangles or what nots, I think people will feel better about posting and asking questions.

Before, ask a question and you get bombarded with people trying to convince you to go to their side. It was getting downright irritating to read these posts.

FWIW, hdgamedb.com has very interesting tools. I was tracking the sales last 14 days of the dual releases (both HDDVD and BD) of several titles, WTC, Superman Returns etc. The statistics you get on these sales rankings and how they are trending is quite consistent.

Even Warner titles that are released first on HDDVD and later on BD are pretty much showing this behavior. The only one that bucked the trend was Ant Bully, everything else seemed to be pointing in one direction.

--- And this in spite of BD titles consistently being out of stock at amazon.com.

A driving factor these past few days seems to be the numerous p-o-r-n discussions that are attracting people in droves to the HD-DVD Players and Software forums!

Have I missed the point? The screenshot shows twice as many visitors to the HD DVD forums, and if that's how it is normally then what's the point?

That is indeed a first!

I'm not exactly sure what the OP's intent really is but he seems to be pointing out that there are 122 people viewing the HD-DVD Software forum but a greater number (+2 = 124) viewing the BD Software forum. IMHO, 122-124 viewers with a 2 viewer difference isn't much of sample size from which to derive a trend. But, if you look at the Players forums there are twice as many viewing HD-DVD than BD.

Have I missed the point? The screenshot shows twice as many visitors to the HD DVD forums, and if that's how it is normally then what's the point?

You must have missed the point. In the OP I said look at the software sections of each format. Blu-ray was ahead in members in that gallery. I had not seen that before on AVS (have scene it on other A/V sites though). My opinion is that this could be another sign that the momentum of this war has shifted to Blu-ray's favor.

~Josh

He meant that more people are viewing the BD software forums than HDdvd software forums. Makes sense. There is alot more software coming out on BD than HDdvd.
Also interestingly there is a thread titled,

HDdvd owners: What will you do now that CES is over?

with options like, Switch to BD, buy both or stay the course.

No similar thread in the BD forums asking what owners will do because I'll bet all the BD owners are grinning like kids on Xmas morning with all the new software announcements.


but what do I know...?


;) d

No similar thread in the BD forums asking what owners will do because I'll bet all the BD owners are grinning like kids on Xmas morning with all the new software announcements.



;) d

I Know I Am :D

~Josh

me too!

And bias, war aside. I am honestly surprised. I was pretty nervous jumping in at this time. I have owned a Betamax, a DAT machine. I know what it's like. I really thought Universal would announce a helluva lot of awesome titles that would make me insanely covet-y. I really honestly did. I don't know what they're thinking and if I were an HDdvd owner, (and I almost was if that Adam/Eve bogus offer had gone through!) I would seriously be asking what's up? Content is king after all...

:)

me too!

And bias, war aside. I am honestly surprised. I was pretty nervous jumping in at this time. I have owned a Betamax, a DAT machine. I know what it's like. I really thought Universal would announce a helluva lot of awesome titles that would make me insanely covet-y. I really honestly did. I don't know what they're thinking and if I were an HDdvd owner, (and I almost was if that Adam/Eve bogus offer had gone through!) I would seriously be asking what's up? Content is king after all...

:)

I agree that "Content Is King." I mean when you really look at us AVS member who debate this format war, we are all basically the same kind of people, we love all things Audio and Video.

The HD-DVD supporters feel that greater Hardware support and a slow and steady release of software will win the war.

The Blu-ray supporters feel that greater Software support and a blizkrieg of software releases will win war.

I personally subscribe to the latter because history repeats itself and software has always been the deciding factor. I do not see history changing this time around. Blu-ray just has too much Exclsuive Studio Support.

~Josh

normally hd-dvd has twice as many, hence the momentum change comment....

normally hd-dvd has twice as many, hence the momentum change comment....

Exactly My Point.

~Josh

By two visitors?... :rolleyes: Grasping at straws once again... ;)

I just did the same:

http://www.picturepuppy.com/images/HorrorScope/bddvd.jpg

I just did the same:

http://www.picturepuppy.com/images/HorrorScope/bddvd.jpgAnd I was just about put my HD-A1 on ebay after seeing those two additional visitors... :rolleyes:

And I was just about put my HD-A1 on ebay after seeing those two additional visitors... :rolleyes:

How much wil you pay me to take it off your hands? :rolleyes:

He meant that more people are viewing the BD software forums than HDdvd software forums. Makes sense. There is alot more software coming out on BD than HDdvd.
Also interestingly there is a thread titled,



Where do you get this from? HDDVD has anounced a slate of 300 titles as well. BD anounced a lot of titles but as with both sides... lets wait and see what actually is released with solid release dates.

How much wil you pay me to take it off your hands? :rolleyes:The how would I play the movies I buy from the upcoming 300?...and, no, I won't sell it to you when I look to upgrade.

Where do you get this from? HDDVD has anounced a slate of 300 titles as well. BD anounced a lot of titles but as with both sides... lets wait and see what actually is released with solid release dates.

They say 300 but They’ll be lucky to get half that here in the US. Due to the fading HD-DVD support I highly doubt they will put our more movies this year than they put out last year.

How do you make the page let you see who is viewing?

Don't you think alot of Blu-Ray supporters would frequent the official Blu-Ray forums?

Don't you think alot of Blu-Ray supporters would frequent the official Blu-Ray forums?
They do!

The how would I play the movies I buy from the upcoming 300?...and, no, I won't sell it to you when I look to upgrade.


It's ok. I am starting to believe more and more that both formats will succeed. Especially if they have dual format players and discs. If several gaming formats can survive so can two different movie formats.

They say 300 but They’ll be lucky to get half that here in the US. Due to the fading HD-DVD support I highly doubt they will put our more movies this year than they put out last year.

You probably haven't been around long enough to realise that the studios are not very good at keeping release dates.... and they are very good at telling us the good news without really making any promises.

You must have missed the point. In the OP I said look at the software sections of each format. Blu-ray was ahead in members in that gallery. I had not seen that before on AVS (have scene it on other A/V sites though). My opinion is that this could be another sign that the momentum of this war has shifted to Blu-ray's favor.

~Josh
Is that it, just the views? I spend more time reading the BR threads than the HD threads and that's since the start of the format war. Yet I prefer HD DVD. Am I scared that my preferred format will loose? Of course I am, especially now after CES. Nonetheless, I'm still behind HD DVD.

BD is absolutely thrashing HDDVD on Amazon, DVDEmpire, and Buy.com.

Where do you get this from? HDDVD has anounced a slate of 300 titles as well. BD anounced a lot of titles but as with both sides... lets wait and see what actually is released with solid release dates.

They've announced 300 titles that are coming from Warner and Paramount. All of those titles will be on Blu-Ray too.

I guess things are back to normal now because there are 29 more people viewing the HD DVD software... :D

You probably haven't been around long enough to realise that the studios are not very good at keeping release dates.... and they are very good at telling us the good news without really making any promises.

Call me silly, but I have more confidence in firm release dates for Q1/Q2 on Blu-Ray than vague comments about 300 HD-DVD titles over the whole year.

The lack of Matrix and Harry Potter last year was one of the deciding factors for me to jump ship.

They've announced 300 titles that are coming from Warner and Paramount. All of those titles will be on Blu-Ray too.

I believe the number includes Universal's titles. However the number itself is likely to be wrong. When they announced it they weren't talking about US releases but global releases and that means they were counting the same title again and again for each region. Chances are they plan to release 180 in the US which is still a very large figure. BD will probably release 4-500 this year

Call me silly, but I have more confidence in firm release dates for Q1/Q2 on Blu-Ray than vague comments about 300 HD-DVD titles over the whole year.

The lack of Matrix and Harry Potter last year was one of the deciding factors for me to jump ship.


You really thought Warner was going to deliver The Matrix to a market with less than 250k players? That's a tad naive. TM and HP aren't exclusives anyways. Jumping ship accomplishes nothing. <smacks forehead>

You really thought Warner was going to deliver The Matrix to a market with less than 250k players? That's a tad naive. TM and HP aren't exclusives anyways. Jumping ship accomplishes nothing. <smacks forehead>

Since Blu-ray has around 1.5 Million players sold, maybe these titles will come out on Blu-ray first then :D

~Josh

These threads are really getting old. :rolleyes:

Oh for the love of...

You take a single snapshot in time, with the state of visitors in continual flux, and from that you extrapolate a "change in momentum"????

You've achieved new heights in fanboyism. Congratulations.

Oh for the love of...

You take a single snapshot in time, with the state of visitors in continual flux, and from that you extrapolate a "change in momentum"????

You've achieved new heights in fanboyism. Congratulations.

heavy,

It's not so much as it's one snapshot in time, it's that it even happened. For as little as 30 days a go this would have never even dreamed of happening here on AVS. The HD-DVD section always out-numbered the Blu-ray section by as much as 4 to 1 or 3 to 1. Yet since the release of the PS3 that gap has been continually closing. I am not saying that Blu-ray viewership on AVS has passed HD-DVD's, I am just saying I think there has definately been a momentum change, that's all.

~Josh

But a momentum change in what?? This shows nothing. The point is threads like this are irrelevant and getting really, really old. We don't need to know whenever more people are viewing the Blu-ray forum or if there were 3 people browsing the Blu-ray section this morning at Best Buy as opposed to the usual 2.

beatboy
its amazing how much yoy try to spin things too
you are wrong about ps3 numbers by about 2/3 because what you quote is shipped numbers not actual sales
I hope you have a plan B ready incase bluray fails

Warner Brothers will be neutral to the end, so we will see the Matrix on both.

Last night I noticed that the trailer for the movie "300" was downloadable on the Playstation store. If my memory serves me, that is a Warner Brother movie, but I could be mistaken. And if so, I see a business relationship building.....

denass, Ironically us gamers who are watching BD movies with our PS3 do not risk anything in the case that BD fails. PS3 games will always use the storage capacity of BD nomatter what happens in the war.

However 5 minutes a go I made a jpeg of the current visiting members. Look at the Software sections:

I'm afraid, but you must have witnessed a momentary high.
I just checked, and this is the result:

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6203/avslx8.jpg

But a momentum change in what?? This shows nothing. The point is threads like this are irrelevant and getting really, really old. We don't need to know whenever more people are viewing the Blu-ray forum or if there were 3 people browsing the Blu-ray section this morning at Best Buy as opposed to the usual 2.

You are entitled to your opinion, which I respect. I feel these types of instances, however small they appear on the surface, can give us a peak in to how trends may be changing. If you disagree with my point of view, that is fine, but please do not call this thread irrelevant as many people disagree with you. Since you feel this thread is irrelevant perhaps choosing to not participate in it would make the most sense?

~Josh

beatboy
its amazing how much yoy try to spin things too
you are wrong about ps3 numbers by about 2/3 because what you quote is shipped numbers not actual sales
I hope you have a plan B ready incase bluray fails

I appologize if I made a mistake in the numbers. I just read somewhere on AVS that the PS3 has sold 1.5 Million units worldwide since launch.

~Josh

I'm afraid, but you must have witnessed a momentary high.
I just checked, and this is the result:

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6203/avslx8.jpg

This shows a typical view of AVS in relation to the viewership of each section. So when I saw the Blu-ray section with more viewers then the HD-DVD section you can now understand my reason for this thread.

~Josh

beatboy
its amazing how much yoy try to spin things too
you are wrong about ps3 numbers by about 2/3 because what you quote is shipped numbers not actual sales
I hope you have a plan B ready incase bluray fails

Actual sales are close to 1.5 million worldwide right now. When Sony said they shipped the 1 million by December 31st they really meant it. Those suckers are being airlifted in, there is very little difference in the numbers.

Anyone who was looking for a PS3 at the year end know the week after Christmas there were massive shipments. NPD does not record after December 26th. Bestbuy had supplies of at least 60 PS3s on December 31st in a relaunch ad. Anyone who was at launch knows most BB has at least 26.

So they sent a massive amount of PS3s just before the new year to reach their target. If you go to bestbuy online right now it's sold out. So, obviously they are close to their shipped numbers.

Also for fact they have actually SOLD over 500,000 in Japan, they report numbers weekly. Even if it did fail, blu-rays will still be made because all PS3 games are on blu-ray disc.

Also, you can actually MOD the HD-DVD add-on to work on your PS3 if you wanted to. Some people have done it over on the PS3 forums. It uses the usb port.

About two months ago there were less than 50 disc available in either format on Fleabay. As of today, 01-13-2007 @ 1400 hours CDT, there are 644 Blu-ray disc and only 21 HD DVD disc. It is obvious there has been a major shift in this place of business for BD. FWIW, I do not see any bargains for titles that I would like.

Even after the bad reviews and press Video Business shows The Fifth Element (BD format) in the #4 spot for the week ending 1/7/2007. Content still appears King.

The above is verifiable, now back to the regular trash talk :D

About two months ago there were less than 50 disc available in either format on Fleabay. As of today, 01-13-2007 @ 1400 hours CDT, there are 644 Blu-ray disc and only 21 HD DVD disc. It is obvious there has been a major shift in this place of business for BD. FWIW, I do not see any bargains for titles that I would like.

Same here. I used to find some great deals on new BDs at eBay but now the prices are ridiculously high, especially considering the high shipping costs most sellers have. I keep checking for low BIN deals daily but haven't had any luck for the last week or so. Got The Descent for dirt cheap that way.

Same here. I used to find some great deals on new BDs at eBay but now the prices are ridiculously high, especially considering the high shipping costs most sellers have. I keep checking for low BIN deals daily but haven't had any luck for the last week or so. Got The Descent for dirt cheap that way.

That because they know the Blu-ray is in high demand and that they could make a pretty penny off of selling them at higher prices.

It feels good to know that none of this gets my shorts in a bind any longer. I own over 100 HD DVDs and I am pleased with most of those purchases. Many of them are exclusive to HD DVD or are superior to their Blu-ray counterparts. However, yesterday I took the Blu-ray plunge and bought a PS3 60G and purchased six recent Blu-ray titles: Fantastic Four, X-Men: The Last Stand, Into the Blue, Underworld Evolution and Eight Below. After viewing Eight Below and Underworld Evolution, I was just as pleased with the PS3's performance as the HD A1. Both are gonna be around awhile and for the time being Universal, Image and Weinstein are HD DVD exclusive so I will continue purchasing both.

Good for you Aaron, now you can begin to understand how pointless it is to argue. People are free to say what they want and buy what they want. It's just tiring to sift through endless threads of format bashing when the simple solution is to just buy into both and enjoy what they have to offer. Honestly, it's easier than ever. Many people already have a 360 so what's another $200? Even the ps3 is in stock at a lot of places as demand has significantly dipped so what is everyone waiting for?!

You want a sign the momentum is changing? I just got a PS3 for movie playback. I despise the Beast that is Sony, yet I want something to watch. I've bought all the HD's I care about. Like.....eight or so. The future holds the final outcome, I guess.

That because they know the Blu-ray is in high demand and that they could make a pretty penny off of selling them at higher prices.

Yes I realize that. If I were selling any BDs on ebay I'd ask a lot more now than I would have last fall and I'd probably get it too. :)

beatboy its amazing how much yoy try to spin things too you are wrong about ps3 numbers by about 2/3 because what you quote is shipped numbers not actual sales I hope you have a plan B ready in case bluray fails

Give it up. At this point both camps are entrenched and neither is going anywhere. Here is a wake-up call for all the HD DVD loyalists: If you are totally subjective and begin to look around at various brick and mortar retailers, it is obvious there is movement in blu-ray ownership. A number of titles are very difficult to find in my neck of the woods. It took three stops to get my hands on "Kingdom of Heaven." The dazzling quality of BD playback on the PS3 is driving lots of sales according to sales people I spoke with yesterday. The purchase of a remote as opposed to game software is pretty common. In fact, the remote control may become a hard accessory to find. Before I went neutral I dismissed movie playback on what is essentially a game console but man, was I wrong. The PS3 delivers an image and sound every bit as good as I have experienced with HD DVD. Go out and get both a Blu-ray player and an HD DVD player and you won't need those anger management classes any longer.

Truth be told both formats are doing pretty damn well. There is in fact a market for HD movies.

What the PS3 and the HD DVD players prove is that if you dangle this carrot in front of people and the price is right consumers will buy in. The PS3 is vital for BD success this year and low cost HD DVD drives are vital for the DVD Forums success.

We're enthusiasts so many of us are not adverse to adding two components to the "stack" especially if one gives us access to games.

I'm ok with sticking with one format for now because I still have to get my TV and a new AVR and speakers. I got other things to worry about. But I'll certianly give Blu-ray a strong look mid 2008 after I get inverted and shaken pennyless paying for my wedding.

I look forward to the forums getting back to discussing our love for movies and audio. This Civil War has gone on long enough.

...I'll certianly give Blu-ray a strong look mid 2008 after I get inverted and shaken pennyless paying for my wedding.

Go to a justice of the peace and buy a Blu-ray player for yourself as a wedding gift. ;)

Go to a justice of the peace and buy a Blu-ray player for yourself as a wedding gift. ;)

Better yet. Does Best Buy have a Wedding Registry...hehehehehe<diabolical>

I appologize if I made a mistake in the numbers. I just read somewhere on AVS that the PS3 has sold 1.5 Million units worldwide since launch.

~Josh


Next time do not believe everything you read. Just thought I would ask all the BR supporters, although both BR and HD-DVD are much better in PQ over DVD, why in the world would anyone want to support BR knowing that you will have to either 1) Repurchase all of your DVD titles on BR (which Sony wants you to do) or 2) keep a separate player for DVD and another for BR (for those who are married, WAF kinda low there).

I own both the 360 add-on and the PS3 and I will say this, I will not play a BR movie in my PS3 again. With the 360 add-on, at least it is a separate drive so if it does go bad, I can easily pick another one relatively cheap. On the other hand, knowing the issues that Sony had producing the BR drives for the PS3, it is only a matter of time for issues to occur.

Just my two cents.

Next time do not believe everything you read. Just thought I would ask all the BR supporters, although both BR and HD-DVD are much better in PQ over DVD, why in the world would anyone want to support BR knowing that you will have to either 1) Repurchase all of your DVD titles on BR (which Sony wants you to do) or 2) keep a separate player for DVD and another for BR (for those who are married, WAF kinda low there).

I own both the 360 add-on and the PS3 and I will say this, I will not play a BR movie in my PS3 again. With the 360 add-on, at least it is a separate drive so if it does go bad, I can easily pick another one relatively cheap. On the other hand, knowing the issues that Sony had producing the BR drives for the PS3, it is only a matter of time for issues to occur.

Just my two cents.

I'm scratching my head at your post. Every single BD player I've seen from samsung to panasonic to PS3 all play DVDs, so why would I need to keep a separate player for DVD? Heck, DVDs look pretty good on PS3 - my 50" plasma has a pretty good scaler.

I believe the 1.5M number may be from vgcharts.org - a site that tracks only video game sales - console & software. I don't know how accurate their data is, but their historical data is incredible - you can even track how two consoles sold from launch date.
http://www.vgcharts.org/images/nexgenwars.png (http://www.vgcharts.org)

It is possible they are wrong, but this is probably the source for all the 1.5M number.

well isn't that more of kudos to your tv than the ps3?

On the issue of the ps3 as a SD DVD player vs other SD DVD players (including the 360) there are plenty of reasons why someone wouldn't want to use it for SD DVDs.

There is no denying that the PS3 is an excellent piece of hardware at a great value. I also agree the recent BD movie releases are great for the format. However, as I see it, both formats are increasing mind share. One isn't dominating the other. Both formats have more to offer. The battle is far from settled IMHO.

At least in N. VA, my personal experience from talking to the retailers is that HD DVD is doing substantially better it sales. The A2 is easily the best selling standalone player and they can't keep the Xbox drives in stock.....

Plazman and me must be in different parts of Northern Virginia. ;)

No but seriously... those accessories/players *are* doing very well, but frankly BD and PS3 are doing very well here also.

You must have missed the point. In the OP I said look at the software sections of each format. Blu-ray was ahead in members in that gallery. I had not seen that before on AVS (have scene it on other A/V sites though). My opinion is that this could be another sign that the momentum of this war has shifted to Blu-ray's favor.

~Josh

I think it is the PS3 effect becuase once you have the hardware, you are interested in seeing what movies you can watch on it on BD. Hence the jump in BD Software forum. Historically, it always used to be less than the hardware BD forum in terms of viewers. Now this has changed.

Plazman and me must be in different parts of Northern Virginia. ;)

No but seriously... those accessories/players *are* doing very well, but frankly BD and PS3 are doing very well here also.Plazman must be in my part of Northern Virginia. There are 4 stores in my area where it's the same situation with HD DVD outselling Blu-ray (according to some salespeople a "large" margin...since no numbers are ever mentioned, I don't know what that really means). Heck, just one look at the shelves and you can see what's been gone through (HD DVD) and what's been left alone (Blu-ray). Not to mention sores near my office in Maryland. Consumers know when they see a value and a PS3 isn't much of a value in comparison to HD DVD. Especially since the Xbox drive is a mere $199!

Plazman must be in my part of Northern Virginia. There are 4 stores in my area where it's the same situation with HD DVD outselling Blu-ray (according to some salespeople a "large" margin...since no numbers are ever mentioned, I don't know what that really means). Heck, just one look at the shelves and you can see what's been gone through (HD DVD) and what's been left alone (Blu-ray). Not to mention sores near my office in Maryland. Consumers know when they see a value and a PS3 isn't much of a value in comparison to HD DVD. Especially since the Xbox drive is a mere $199!3

Yeah, that would be true if that add-on was selling. If you add 400+200 you end up at 600, when you could just go for 500 with the PS3.

The Add-on sold 42k in November, and 50k in December, if you compare that to the 690k confirmed by NPD for PS3. Also considering according to a survery of 10,000 PS3 owners 80% intend to buy blu-ray movies. So that is more than 5 to 1 user ratio.

Apparently consumers appear more than willing to get a PS3 instead of the 5 million 360 users in this country who appear almost completely uninterested in a subpar add-on drive that is not really a good player.

There is no denying that the PS3 is an excellent piece of hardware at a great value. I also agree the recent BD movie releases are great for the format. However, as I see it, both formats are increasing mind share. One isn't dominating the other. Both formats have more to offer. The battle is far from settled IMHO.

At least in N. VA, my personal experience from talking to the retailers is that HD DVD is doing substantially better it sales. The A2 is easily the best selling standalone player and they can't keep the Xbox drives in stock.....

I'm laughing at this. Microsoft sent tons of these drives out. They only sold 42k in November and 50k in December. Official NPD numbers for North America, apparently it's only your stores selling out.

Microsoft won't even release the number they shipped because it won't look good in a shipped/sold ratio.

Just sayin, I think that's anecdotal to where you live. Cause NPD says they are sitting on shelves.