Is there any real answer on the value of buying expensive HDMI cables?
Most seem to agree that analog benefits from higher priced high quality cables but HDMI is another question.

Until recently the stock answers when someone asked about HDMI cables was,
1. Monster sucks (but that seems to be the answer about any cable question!)
2. Digital bits are digital bits, 1's & 0's don't care if they are sent down a $5 Monoprice cable or a $120 monster cable so don't waste your money on high priced cables.


But there now seems to be some different "facts" coming up.
On the discussion about HDMI version 1.3 (which many believe is not worth waiting for but that's another question) they say the data transfer rate is much higher & are now saying that cables made for HDMI 1.1 won't be able to carry the amount of data that 1.3 will be capable of transmitting.

So what is the truth?
When I get my HDMI 1.3 receiver will I see better sound & pic quality if I use a high quality cable from my PS3 to the receiver or will the $15 monoprice cables I've been using work just as well?

I haven't tested out any 1.3 equipment so my views are based on speculation.

Quality can make a difference even with digital cables. While it's true that if the data is transmitted and received, one signal is the same as another. What can happen on crap cables however, is that you can get data drop outs. This would be most evident on longer cable runs (25+ feet). With 1.3, since your dealing with a higher transfer rate, you could very well find that a cable that worked 100% perfectly for 1.1, isn't up to snuff. The real question at this point in time is how are you going to test this? Do you have any equipment that will be contain deep color or TrueHD? Until that is available, even your HDMI 1.3 will be transmitting at the 1.1 rate.

That being said, the expensive cables are a rip off and are not necessary. There is a difference between a pos cable and the $15 cables you can get at monoprice. The monoprice ones seem to be very good quality. Just remember that most of the wiring even in the expensive cables, comes from the same manufactoring sources. If cables are specifically marked as 1.3 then perhaps they were tested and certified to handle 1.3 sources.

The bottom line is, try out the monoprice cables and worry about getting better cables IF they don't work. My guess is they will work fine.

So what is the truth?
When I get my HDMI 1.3 receiver will I see better sound & pic quality if I use a high quality cable from my PS3 to the receiver or will the $15 monoprice cables I've been using work just as well?

As a follow-on to your question I think we need to understand exactly what some things mean. For instance, when you say "When I get my HDMI 1.3 receiver" I think you'll hear the response that "HDMI 1.3" doesn't by itself guarantee that you'll get "better sound & pic quality". It will depend on which portions of HDMI 1.3 the manufacturer put into the receiver.

They may have only included "Deep Color" for the pic quality but didn't include any of the audio portions, which there are more than one audio feature. Unfortunately, here is where everyone (HDMI, Dolby, etc.) are saying the buyer should be looking for HD features such as "Deep Color", Lossless, Lip sync, etc. Those involved are making it a "Buyer Beware" issue instead of renaming HDMI 1.3 to something like HDMI 1.3 FULL or Extended. I think this issue is why we now have some coming up with CERTIFICATION type software or process that vendors can put their products through as a means to help out the consumer who is at the mercy of the manufacturers much like when they use "HD Ready" or "HD capable" BS.

This is by no means an attack on anyone. It is simple stating that their lack to detail of specifications branding is causing consumer confusion. Hence, the certification became a necessity. They can fix this first by admitting there's a problem arising and that they shouldn't ever make it a BUYER BEWARE thing. Many are looking at "HDMI 1.3" as a LABEL that indicates that all or the NEW HD audio/video will be in that product. Simply further name the label when the product includes ALL of the HDMI 1.3 specs. Then you can "Buyer Beware" all you want.

So then we ask, "Since HDMI 1.3 has more 'bandwidth', does that mean I need thicker cables, better quality cables, certain connecters, etc".
What guage wire do we need? 12, 16, 24?
What quality? 99% pure copper? 99% pure gold? 58% pure aluminum?
What type of connectors? A new type? One that is backwards compatible with HDMI 1.1? One that has a certain number of "pins" or "soldering points"?
I do not know the answers. I would like to find out if the connecters are to be different, I think that would be the biggest difference.

I would like to find out if the connecters are to be different, I think that would be the biggest difference.

I would think if they changed the connectors (not including the HDMI mini connectors) that it wouldn't be HDMI anymore.

After all they aren't calling it DVI v2.3.

Is there any real answer on the value of buying expensive HDMI cables?
Most seem to agree that analog benefits from higher priced high quality cables but HDMI is another question.

Until recently the stock answers when someone asked about HDMI cables was,
1. Monster sucks (but that seems to be the answer about any cable question!)
2. Digital bits are digital bits, 1's & 0's don't care if they are sent down a $5 Monoprice cable or a $120 monster cable so don't waste your money on high priced cables.


But there now seems to be some different "facts" coming up.
On the discussion about HDMI version 1.3 (which many believe is not worth waiting for but that's another question) they say the data transfer rate is much higher & are now saying that cables made for HDMI 1.1 won't be able to carry the amount of data that 1.3 will be capable of transmitting.

So what is the truth?
When I get my HDMI 1.3 receiver will I see better sound & pic quality if I use a high quality cable from my PS3 to the receiver or will the $15 monoprice cables I've been using work just as well?

Do not buy overpriced cables no matter what!!!! Did you know it costs Monster just about the same amount of money that most of cables at monoprice cost to make their product? The mark-up is pure profit. If you think it costs them anywhere near $150 to make an HDMI cable then you are dreaming! It costs them maybe $5 each at most. They rake in more money then anyone else on their pure profit operation luring unsuspecting average joes into the cable scam every day. It is really sad that so many people fall for their hard pushed sales pitches and glitsy product displays. You are NOT, I repeat, NOT getting a better product buying the "Premium" digital cable.

Do not buy overpriced cables no matter what!!!! Did you know it costs Monster just about the same amount of money that most of cables at monoprice cost to make their product? The mark-up is pure profit. If you think it costs them anywhere near $150 to make an HDMI cable then you are dreaming! It costs them maybe $5 each at most. They rake in more money then anyone else on their pure profit operation luring unsuspecting average joes into the cable scam every day. It is really sad that so many people fall for their hard pushed sales pitches and glitsy product displays. You are NOT, I repeat, NOT getting a better product buying the "Premium" digital cable.

So you are saying that I should just pick up the cheapest cables, interconnects & speaker wires I can find to hook up a sunfire amp to B&M speakers?

Or do you just hate Monster?

This is the kind of crap that flows from the internet "experts" on this site.
This is exactly what isn't needed in this thread.

In case you didn't know it Monster cables are actually cheap when compaired to a set of $3000 Nordost valhala speaker cables.

Unless you can do better than flaming a company I'm not intrested in what you have to say.
Show me some facts, not troll crap!

Wow that was pretty harsh themoose. I have used Monster cables in the past and I spent a lot of money on them. One day someone told me about this board AVS. I checked it out and after reading a lot of posts about Monoprice I tried them myself. Guess what their cables work just as good as monster at least I could not tell a difference. I have nothing against Monster I will buy them if they are on the discount shelf. I have friends that work for the big box stores and the mark up on Monster cables is ridiculous. If you like Monster buy them or give Monoprice a try. Me personally I like saving money and putting it towards new equipment.

WOW....I can tell someone likes the Monster and other overpriced, overhyped cables! Just do a quick google search and you will see 100's of reports, tests and studies that have been done showing that price does not equal video/sound quality when it comes to cables. I would NEVER spend $3000 on speaker cable, ever. You would have to be just plain obsessed and sick to put down that kind of money on a cable.

My favorite and one of the best tests done was one completed by PC World. They concluded and I quote:

You don't need to spend a fortune on cables. The HDMI cables performed comparably in both our instrument tests and our visual tests. And with analog cables, the analyzer revealed some degree of variation in quality, but the variances did not translate into noticeable differences in our visual tests.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,121777-page,1/article.html

Wow that was pretty harsh themoose. I have used Monster cables in the past and I spent a lot of money on them. One day someone told me about this board AVS. I checked it out and after reading a lot of posts about Monoprice I tried them myself. Guess what their cables work just as good as monster at least I could not tell a difference. I have nothing against Monster I will buy them if they are on the discount shelf. I have friends that work for the big box stores and the mark up on Monster cables is ridiculous. If you like Monster buy them or give Monoprice a try. Me personally I like saving money and putting it towards new equipment.
I have both Monoprice & Monster in my system & have had good luck with both.
This is NOT a thread to bash Monster or any other cable manufacture, it's a thread to get facts, not spew out false statements because someone doesn't like a particular company.

I'm looking for actual information here, opinions are fine if you can back them up.
Saying "Do not buy overpriced cables no matter what!!!! " is not helpful at all because some cables are obviously better than others in some situations & I'm wanting to find out if that applies to HDMI since there is so much misinformation on this site.

My statements were based on FACTS. I have provided you with a link. Overpriced cable are Never a good buy. You will Never see a noticable increase in PQ or AQ by using them.

Moose dont get the thread closed. If you don't like what this person has to say then ask some on else. The thread just got statred. :cool:

Keep this thread in check guys. You should be talking about the HDMI format and not cables and costs.

Is there any real answer on the value of buying expensive HDMI cables?
Most seem to agree that analog benefits from higher priced high quality cables but HDMI is another question.

Until recently the stock answers when someone asked about HDMI cables was,
1. Monster sucks (but that seems to be the answer about any cable question!)
2. Digital bits are digital bits, 1's & 0's don't care if they are sent down a $5 Monoprice cable or a $120 monster cable so don't waste your money on high priced cables.


But there now seems to be some different "facts" coming up.
On the discussion about HDMI version 1.3 (which many believe is not worth waiting for but that's another question) they say the data transfer rate is much higher & are now saying that cables made for HDMI 1.1 won't be able to carry the amount of data that 1.3 will be capable of transmitting.

So what is the truth?
When I get my HDMI 1.3 receiver will I see better sound & pic quality if I use a high quality cable from my PS3 to the receiver or will the $15 monoprice cables I've been using work just as well?

Monster does not suck. They are very good cables, just grossly overpriced. Yes, HDMI 1.3 carries more bandwith but that is a non issue now. Go ahead , buy gear now, enjoy it and in five years upgrade. You will not be missing much. The PS3 is 1.3 but is your display? Most people out there would not be able to tell the difference between 1.2 and 1.3 content right next to each other. Enjoy.

I'm looking for actual information here, opinions are fine if you can back them up.
Saying "Do not buy overpriced cables no matter what!!!! " is not helpful at all because some cables are obviously better than others in some situations & I'm wanting to find out if that applies to HDMI since there is so much misinformation on this site.

Moose, I have been researching a lot on HDMI since I just got a new television. What I found out was that HDMI is a digital signal and cables do not make a difference in a digital signal.

I found a great article, an interview with the Director of Marketing for HDMI Licensing in which the director discusses the basics of HDMI. (http://www1.electronichouse.com/info/specials/hdmi_basics.html)

A few quotes from interview that I found really interesting:

"Fatter cables do not necessarily mean better signals. Previously, fat cables were deemed superior because the copper was thicker and the cables carried more shielding. Additional shielding reduced the likelihood of interference between the copper strands, which led to a better signal.

In the world of digital cables, there's no need for shielding since there is no possibility of interference within a cable."

The Best Quote

"Digital cables are either compliant or they are not; they either work or they don't. Compliance is given to a specific speed rating, and the default speed that all HDMI logo'ed cables meet is 75MHz, which corresponds to 720p or 1080i video resolutions.

Unlike analog, there is no such thing as an HDMI cable that makes the digital audio or video data come out better than another. If the 1s and 0s make it to the other end, the cable has done its job, period. "

CrasMack, have you read this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=783574
A few pages in they seem to be saying the opposite & that HDMI 1.1 cables will not pass as much information as 1.3 cables.

That's what got me to post this thread.

CrasMack, have you read this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=783574
A few pages in they seem to be saying the opposite & that HDMI 1.1 cables will not pass as much information as 1.3 cables.


Hey, I will check out that post but to make it clear, my previous comments were about whether big $$ cables were better then cheap cables and according to the director of HDMI licensing, the answer is no. My comments had nothing to do with the current hdmi version versus HDMI 1.3...

I have had some experience, several years ago, sweeping analog cables , fixed & variable waveguide, etc.... While not mentioning brands, a thicker (to a degree) copper, silver, or especially gold* cable, with properly constructed ground/shield will perform better in analog applications. For one thing, in cables, the electrons actually flow on the "surface" of the wire/strand.

Now for passing digital information, whatever the minimum spec is that will not unduly distort the square wave to such a degree that 1's & 0's become undistinquished from one another, then that cable is good enough.

About the 1.1 versus 1.3 cables. I'm not 100% sure but I am fairly certain, that the HDMI is TDM (Time Division) & not Frequency Divided. That is, for more bandwidth, one would send more pulses in a given set of time. Or another way to put it, is the rest period between each pulse would decrease. For example, let us say that (NRZ) a '0' is 1.5V & a '1' is 8V. To get more bandwith from the output device, one would not change either of those voltage values, one would just send the individual voltages faster.



*If you look at the Periodic Table of the Elements, one will find Gold, Silver, & Copper appearing one of top of each other in that order. Their location, in the connecting peice, between the left & right side of the table is called the Transitory Metals; as the elements transition from the ert on the left to the inert of the right. Because Gold is close to the right side & higher in the table than either Silver or Copper it does hold a higher electronegative value than those other two earth metals. Gold is a much better conductor than copper. In fact gold wants to "pass" those electrons along so well, that it will often interact with the air around it. Copper being the most easliy found of the 3 is the cheapest, but Silver is the best compromise. It conducts better than Copper, but is not so reactive as Gold.

So you are saying that I should just pick up the cheapest cables, interconnects & speaker wires I can find to hook up a sunfire amp to B&M speakers?

That's a good place to start, though you'd do well to at least buy the cheapest of some known brand/store, like Radio Shack, A/R, monoprice, etc. There's certainly no demonstrated sonic/video need to pay Monster prices.

anyone buy from eHDMI.com? their prices look very good to me, and my buddy is all setup with their HDMI and fiber audio cables, and likes them.

Here is an interesting link on HDMI cable specification and performance issues:

Article "HDMI Part 8 - Cables for 1.3" by Rodolfo La Maestra for HDTV magazine.
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/08/hdmi_part_8_-_c.php

Actually, I thought the first part of the article "Spend more on cables?" didn't add anything new, if you've seen the similar discussions on many many many ... threads in the AVS forums. But the second part "The HDMI cable" and the third part "Do we really need another cable for 1.3?" were much more interesting.

A key quote is:

And they added, "Intra-pair means that what really matters is the relative length of the two wires ("D+" and "D-") in each data pair. Reliability is not impacted by one pair being substantially longer than another pair but it is severely impacted if the two wires within a pair are substantially different."

Interestingly, they have seen an almost inverse relationship between cable performance (primarily impacted by intra-pair skew) and cable thickness, which unfortunately could be very roughly generalized as "the more you pay (and I add "for thickness to impress, not necessarily for the higher cost of quality") the lower the performance". The suspicion is that it has something to do with the difference in manufacturing technique for thicker-gage wires, for which it might become harder to get consistent tensioning.

The lesson quoted from HDMI Licensing to the cable makers is: "you have always designed for analog, but HDMI uses digital, differential signals, in Gbps. Manufacturers can't keep using the same technique that they have used in the past."

And the "reader commentary" by Mark Stockfisch (mstockfisch) shouldn't be overlooked. Another key quote:

have personally tested very long (50-meters)/expensive/high-quality cables through a pre-emphasized/equalized repeater and seen zero errors at 1080p 60Hz. So I can say for sure that perfection is possible for a price - using expensive cable and quality electronics on both ends.

To summarize, I think it would be safe to use just about any name brand off-the-shelf cable at 4-meters - so long one has properly designed source and sink products at either end. At longer lengths (e.g. 10-meter or greater) there may be a reason to spend more money. Here, I'd buy pre-emphasized/equalized electronics and cables with Simplay certification.

Note: Currently There is only one actual cable mfgr. certified for "Simplay".
As noted intra-pair skew is very important and if all of the 1/0s (are most anyway) don't make it there will be problems.
More expensive cables (should) adhere to more stringent construction and testing methods.
Every on of our HDMI cables is physically tested 5 times before leaving the factory (causing a higher reject rate but a much lower defect rate).
Under 4 or 5 meters this is not really an issue (however if you are installing your cable in wall get a better on and don't take the chance).
Over 5 meters differences start to compound and higher rez will make this worse.
Currently (to the best of my knowledge) 5 meters is max length for 1.3 rated cables.
10G is not easy, fiber will be a better choice if you feel the need for longer 1.3 installs.
Absolutely look for certification. If a company is cutting cost by not testing and paying for the license they might be cutting other areas as well.

This thread has helped a lot with my decision. I am putting together my home theater. I bought a 46" Sharp Aquos and hung it on the wall last weekend. I haven't bought any other components yet, but my plan was to put them on an ajacent wall (my family room layout really sucks) I am going to run a 30' HDMI cable throught the wall and attic to the TV. I stopped by Best Buy and priced the 35' cable they had. I think it was Monster. It was $350. I about died. Surely that is a joke. Right? Well, I came home and started searching on the net and the price varies considerably. Monoprice has the same length cable for $51. Its gold plated and CL2 rated. They're out of stock right now, but for that price I will wait.

Please see a more detailed posting here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=794088

Longer lengths and higher video speeds will tend to push the signal integrity to the limits. A cable acts as a high speed filter, attenuating the electrical signal. The HDMI signal is an "eye diagram", where the opening of the eye will tend to get smaller as the cable gets longer, and as the video speed increases. When the HDMI receiver chip is unable to resolve and decode the eye diagram, the video will experience degradation in the form of pixel noise or even no image in the worst case. Thus, the attenuation quality of the cable does have an affect on the signal if the cable length and/or video speed are close to the limits of the HDMI receiver chip.

The HDMI spec does not define any limit to the length of the cable. Rather, it defines a source reference signal that goes into the cable, and the maximum amount of attenuation that is allowed to the signal at the end of the cable.

Personally, I have seen demonstrations by some HDMI semiconductor companies showing a 1080p signal run on a 50 ft copper cable with a clean image, and a 720p signal run on a >75ft copper cable also with a clean image. I can't say whether these cables were actually HDMI compliant, but this seems to indicate that a high quality receiver chip can also have an impact on the signal margins.

HDMI-Org.
DId we meet at the Ethereal CES Booth last year?
Or possibly @ EHxpo East in either the Digital Living seminar or during the Jeff Boccaccio/Ethereal HDMI training seminar?

Thanks for all the HDMI info. It has saved me from paying high markups at BB and CC. However, I am looking at monoprice for an HDMI cable to connect from my ps3 to my 46 samsung and from my DirectTV box to the T.V.
An HDMI cable 10 feet or less will probably work fine, but it will be running behind the wall and then out again. Will any of the HDMI cables on monoprice work as long as I get the right size, or is there more I need to be aware of.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan

I ran a poll years ago on on expensive verses cheap cables and was suprised by the result. I for one had purchased a no name 30ft DVI cable off of eBay to use with me Z2 projector (720P) and got sparkles in the picture. I replaced it with a 30Ft RAM electronics cable and that fixed the problem. In the poll back in 2004 most people with 30ft+ DVI cables were alright with them but a few like me needed something better. May be we should run the poll again but now with HDMI and 1080P as the bench mark.


http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=379989

While we're citing examples.

I have a 15m run of high quality (ram electronics I think) HDMI cable.

I bought it originally to run a DVI connection with an HDMI to DVI adapter on each end.

The picture was graced with sparkles.

Using the same cable running an HDMI source works fine, using a different HDMI device for the source also produced sparkles. The difference is in the transmitter. The HDMI transmitter allows for a longer run than DVI, but it appears all HDMI transmitters are not equal.

I am using the cable still with the DVI transmitter but have a KeyDigital "HDMI Blaster" which fixes the sparkles.

So I would say buy a cable you can return and try it with your devices.

Thanks for all the HDMI info. It has saved me from paying high markups at BB and CC. However, I am looking at monoprice for an HDMI cable to connect from my ps3 to my 46 samsung and from my DirectTV box to the T.V.
An HDMI cable 10 feet or less will probably work fine, but it will be running behind the wall and then out again. Will any of the HDMI cables on monoprice work as long as I get the right size, or is there more I need to be aware of.

Thanks in advance,
RyanYou want to get their CL-2 rated cables for running behind a wall (otherwise your fire insurance can be declared null & void).

You want to get their CL-2 rated cables for running behind a wall (otherwise your fire insurance can be declared null & void).
Where did you pull that from?? The voltage in these cables are signal level, just like any 12v wiring they have no relation to the 120V power wiring requirements.

If you want a bunch of great info on the cables, go to the source. The HDMI organization site (for some reason I can't post URLs because I'm using a new log in).

Its a great site with a 30 minute training that I highly recommend - it will definitely help to eliminate a ton of the minsconceptions regarding the cable, some of which are posted here.

Larry M.

Where did you pull that from?? The voltage in these cables are signal level, just like any 12v wiring they have no relation to the 120V power wiring requirements.

It's about being compliant with National Electric Code, and what happens when an insurance inspector finds out your burned-down house had modifications made by you that made it non-compliant with NEC.

Are you an expert at interpreting the NEC?

Apparently you are not. I've built homes from the ground up with approval and reviews of the electrical inspectors. Your just spewing with no backing. The 12volt and under wiring (low power) Do not have the same requirements as power lines. Thus your house has bell wiring that has no ground, single insulation, no breakers. Why because it can't generate enough heat to cause a fire. Have you ever heard of a HDMI cable suddenly bursting into flames . Well???.

Why because it can't generate enough heat to cause a fire. Have you ever heard of a HDMI cable suddenly bursting into flames.

There rules governing low-voltage wiring exist not because the low voltage/low power wiring can be a source of flame, but to prevent the jacketing from sustaining or spreading a fire (like a fuse) to other parts of the home once it starts. Someone familiar with NEC would not have overlooked this basic concept.

Why do you think there are firestops in conduits between floors in a high-rise building? They prevent the wire insulation from spreading the fire on one floor to another.

There's another thing to consider in buying a HDMI cable that hasn't been mentioned here: cable stiffness. I bought some of Monoprice's better 24 AWG cables and found them so stiff that they were difficult to route through my HT cabinet. They also put a good bit of stress on the standard HDMI connectors, which are none too beefy in the first place. I ended up replacing them with Monoprice's less expensive, 28 AWG HDMI cables for my six-foot runs. They work fine, were easy to route through the tight spots, and don't stress my connectors. YMMV.

As for maximum length issue there are a number of factors - quality of the transmitter and receiver as well as the cable. Also their are "cable equalizers" that compensate for the skin-effect loss of the cable.

The longest I've seen over copper was 70 meters using an equalizer and 22AWG cable. Note that this is a pretty fat and stiff cable with low intra-pair skew. The result was that at 1.65Gbps (about 2x the data rate for 720p or 1080i) the eye easily passed the HDMI receiver eye mask for that rate. Caveat: a cable this long is quite expensive, and the large gauge makes it stiff.

Optical transmission opens up the door to 100's of meters, even kilometers. There are a few vendors. I think OWlink has a single fiber solution. Not sure if it is in production. This is probably fairly expensive as well.

I think the problem with non-rated cable is that they may spread a fire from one walled compartment to another much quicker than the fire would have spread without the cable.

I think if there is a fire in my house, there would be little left of any wires to be able to tell that they were or were not CL-2 rated.

*If you look at the Periodic Table of the Elements, one will find Gold, Silver, & Copper appearing one of top of each other in that order. Their location, in the connecting peice, between the left & right side of the table is called the Transitory Metals; as the elements transition from the ert on the left to the inert of the right. Because Gold is close to the right side & higher in the table than either Silver or Copper it does hold a higher electronegative value than those other two earth metals. Gold is a much better conductor than copper. In fact gold wants to "pass" those electrons along so well, that it will often interact with the air around it. Copper being the most easliy found of the 3 is the cheapest, but Silver is the best compromise. It conducts better than Copper, but is not so reactive as Gold.

This is all very wrong.

Gold is not a better conductor than copper, it is in fact worse. Copper's conductivity is 5.88E7 ohm*meter, as opposed to Gold with a poorer conductivity of 4.55E7 ohm*meter. Silver is the most conductive element on the periodic table with a conductivity of 6.21E7 ohm*meter. These numbers alone are enough, but I must continue.

The high electronegativity of gold is one of the factors in why it has a lower conductivity. Electronegativity is the propensity of an element to take and keep electrons, rather than pass them on. When an electron comes near a gold atom, it is much more likely to pull that electron in and keep it than a copper atom is.

anyone buy from eHDMI.com? their prices look very good to me, and my buddy is all setup with their HDMI and fiber audio cables, and likes them.

eHDMI is a mirror site of Monoprice.com, they blind drop ship from monoprice. Same exact product.

I've always agreed that cables were cables... but with the new 120hz TVs I've been trying to match things up. Granted my PS3 only plays at 60hz and I don't know of a 120hz source at the moment... Anyway, what do you guys think has or has not changed with the new line up of cables from Monster. I know that some of you in here don't see the point but I get them on the cheap and I see they have the new 1000 series with the 120hz and 12bit display tech stuff on it... Are they worth buying? Are they better than other cables? Or is it just marketing BS? (have a reason for the marketing bs if you do call bs on the cables) Thanks.

Or is it just marketing BS? (have a reason for the marketing bs if you do call bs on the cables) Thanks.

Gizmodo did a quasi-scientific test comparing Monster cable and Monoprice econo cable:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/feature/the-truth-about-monster-cable-part-2-verdict-cheap-cables-keep-upusually-268788.php

Verdict:some Monster cable is better at long runs(>15m) but for shorter runs it's a ripoff.

Okay cool. It seems that they were testing the 1000 series cables. I have a 600 series and I'll keep it. Thanks.

The real problem is the digital hand shake, the quality wires will help with this but to what degree I have not heard. if the wire is good the hand shake may be bad---so u end up chasing your tail. The standard is more of a problem then wire. Component is a better choice for now.

I've always agreed that cables were cables... but with the new 120hz TVs I've been trying to match things up. Granted my PS3 only plays at 60hz and I don't know of a 120hz source at the moment...

The PS3 only plays at 60hz?

I've always agreed that cables were cables... but with the new 120hz TVs I've been trying to match things up. Granted my PS3 only plays at 60hz and I don't know of a 120hz source at the moment... Anyway, what do you guys think has or has not changed with the new line up of cables from Monster. I know that some of you in here don't see the point but I get them on the cheap and I see they have the new 1000 series with the 120hz and 12bit display tech stuff on it... Are they worth buying? Are they better than other cables? Or is it just marketing BS? (have a reason for the marketing bs if you do call bs on the cables) Thanks.

I recently sold both of my Monster M1000HD cables (4ft ea.) and replaced them with Blue Jeans Cable Belden bonded-pair HDMI 1.3a cables (4,8 and 9ft runs) for less than the cost of one 4ft M1000HD. The result? There was not a heap of a difference between the Monster and BJC cable. In fact, it cost me less for all three BJC's (21ft worth) than it did for one 4ft Monster. So I saved money and got the same pic quality!!!!

For one thing, in cables, the electrons actually flow on the "surface" of the wire/strand.

Are you talking in RF transmissions as what you are describing (skin effect) is negligible on multistranded wires, on solid core it is a different matter of
course.

Optical transmission opens up the door to 100's of meters, even kilometers. There are a few vendors. I think OWlink has a single fiber solution. Not sure if it is in production. This is probably fairly expensive as well.

OWLink has transceiver/receiver with 100 ft. cables package using a single super-thin (fishing line like transparent) wire that carries both video and IR, or another model that carries video, IR, USB, and analog audio for lower price than typical fiber optic cables. Current prices are $599 and $799 respectively for the two models. This model will do up to 1080p @24/30 fps.

What about the differences between 1.3a cables and regular cables?

If I am trying to "future-proof" (just picked up an Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver that does 1.3a), than should I be going with the 1.3a cables?

Both types I'm getting from Monoprice.

What about the differences between 1.3a cables and regular cables?

If I am trying to "future-proof" (just picked up an Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver that does 1.3a), than should I be going with the 1.3a cables?

Both types I'm getting from Monoprice.

First, there's no such thing as an HDMI 1.3A cable. It is either a Category 1 (1.65 Gigabit) or a category 2 (3.4 Gigabit) cable. If you want to future proof, get only a category 2 cable.

Apparently you are not. I've built homes from the ground up with approval and reviews of the electrical inspectors. Your just spewing with no backing. The 12volt and under wiring (low power) Do not have the same requirements as power lines. Thus your house has bell wiring that has no ground, single insulation, no breakers. Why because it can't generate enough heat to cause a fire. Have you ever heard of a HDMI cable suddenly bursting into flames . Well???.


Yes yes I know, his post is from June 1st but just to clarify

Chuck

unfortunatly NEC sides with Jhue

even for low voltage, they must conform to NEC standards.

So that doorbell falls under NEC Article 725 Class 1, Class 2, Class 3 Remote-Control, Signaling, and power limited cicuits.

and particularly under 725.21

Audio falls under Article 640 Audio Signal Processing, Amplification and Reproduction equipment and particularly Part II which is for Permanent Installations.

In part II, the one which we are concerned with is (B) Betwen loudspeakers and amplifiers (cables used to connect loudspeakers or to an amplifier shall comply with article 725) and (C) Between Equipment (cables used for distribution of audio signal between equipment shall comply with article 725). In short both MUST comply with Article 725

but both Article 725 and Article 600 call on Article 300 for the wiring.

300.4(A)-(F) go into detials about the wiring for boring through wood, notching wood, joist, raceways etc.

300.21 applies to inwall use (Electrical installations in Hollow spaces, Vertical shafts, and ventilation and or air handling shall be made so that the possible spread of fire or the products of combustion will not be substantially increased.

and just to make sure

for communication (HDMI, DVI). That falls under Article 800 which also mentions article 725 and article 300 for compliance.

First, there's no such thing as an HDMI 1.3A cable. It is either a Category 1 (1.65 Gigabit) or a category 2 (3.4 Gigabit) cable. If you want to future proof, get only a category 2 cable.

Monoprice.com has 1.3a cables:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024006&p_id=3661&seq=1&format=2


So are they the same as their reg. hdmi cables?

Just my .02 I bought two of these from Monoprice:
HDMI Tin-Plated Copper CL2 Rated (For In-Wall Installation) Cable (26AWG) - 25ft (Gold Plated)

$15 each, and they work just great. I run my cable box and my DVD out from a closet up into the attic and down the inside of a wall to my Panasonic TH-42PX75U.

So lets say I buy a couple of cables from amazon... cables to go... hey I have a free demo of Prime account from them and I'm trying to use it... Those cables to go are just as good....:D

I am upgrading my HDTV Directv STB and Plasma.

1.In order to get the features of HDMI1.3, must the STB and TV have HDMI1.3 outouts and inputs respectively?

2. Does anyine know if the HR20 and HR21 STBs have HDMI1.3?

3. do the Panasonic 42 inch xx700 have HDMI1.3?

Partial answers are welcome.

Thanks.

..I don't care what anyone out there says, I have thoroughly been proven that expensive cables can drastically out perform cheap cables.

For anyone out there that believes that all cheap cables are as good as expensive cables, and all expensive cables are a rip-off, here is a fail proof test that will make you a believer, lol. (here comes the classic avs number count: )

1. get a playstation 2
2. buy the $60 psyclone component cables from bb or cc
3. go on ebay and buy the cheapest >10 component cables out there, preferably the xbox/gamecube/ps2 all-in-one multi output cables
4. get Okami

5. Now I want you to play the game using one of the cables. the outcome is so serious, it doesnt even matter which one you use first (you will be switching back and forth several times in disbelief.) depending on which cables you use first, your initial reaction after the experiment will either be disgust, or pure awe.

..IF YOU CANNOT SEE HOW MUCH RICHER, *SHARPER* COLORFUL, LIFELIKE, 3-D AND EFFING ENJOYABLE THIS WHITE WOLF'S WORLD IS WITH THE PSYCLONES, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT PICTURE QUALITY, BECASUE YOU ARE STEVIE WONDER. the crappy cables looked pixley, dull, and even had one of those gohstly line things constanty crawling up the screen. yum. The picture was so much better on the expensive daddys, i could have sworn it even sounded better. like violins and sh*t.

Lol, i know this experiment seems like a joke, but its really quite do-able, if you already have a ps2. you just have to get the psyclone cables, which you can return the same day (that is if you're retarded), the cheap cables on ebay, and a used copy of okami while you're online, or at gamestop (you should have this spectacle of a game for you're dying system anyway). at most you will waste 2-10 bucks on some ****** cables.

God please somebody else do this and post the results so all the little cheap cable trolls can stop whining. NOT all cables are created equal. thaaanks.

..I don't care what anyone out there says, I have thoroughly been proven that expensive cables can drastically out perform cheap cables.

For anyone out there that believes that all cheap cables are as good as expensive cables, and all expensive cables are a rip-off, here is a fail proof test that will make you a believer, lol. (here comes the classic avs number count: )

1. get a playstation 2
2. buy the $60 psyclone component cables from bb or cc
3. go on ebay and buy the cheapest >10 component cables out there, preferably the xbox/gamecube/ps2 all-in-one multi output cables
4. get Okami

5. Now I want you to play the game using one of the cables. the outcome is so serious, it doesnt even matter which one you use first (you will be switching back and forth several times in disbelief.) depending on which cables you use first, your initial reaction after the experiment will either be disgust, or pure awe.

..IF YOU CANNOT SEE HOW MUCH RICHER, *SHARPER* COLORFUL, LIFELIKE, 3-D AND EFFING ENJOYABLE THIS WHITE WOLF'S WORLD IS WITH THE PSYCLONES, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT PICTURE QUALITY, BECASUE YOU ARE STEVIE WONDER. the crappy cables looked pixley, dull, and even had one of those gohstly line things constanty crawling up the screen. yum. The picture was so much better on the expensive daddys, i could have sworn it even sounded better. like violins and sh*t.

Lol, i know this experiment seems like a joke, but its really quite do-able, if you already have a ps2. you just have to get the psyclone cables, which you can return the same day (that is if you're retarded), the cheap cables on ebay, and a used copy of okami while you're online, or at gamestop (you should have this spectacle of a game for you're dying system anyway). at most you will waste 2-10 bucks on some ****** cables.

God please somebody else do this and post the results so all the little cheap cable trolls can stop whining. NOT all cables are created equal. thaaanks.

Dude, you're missing the whole point. We're talking about DIGITAL cables, not analog component cables. When purchasing an analog cable, eg. component, speaker cables, composite, etc., you absolutely get what you pay for.

Dude, you're missing the whole point. We're talking about DIGITAL cables, not analog component cables. When purchasing an analog cable, eg. component, speaker cables, composite, etc., you absolutely get what you pay for.

Lol, well the first few guys in the thread were arguing about speaker wire, so i just thought i would throw that in there :P

I've also heard this same debate over anolog cables (component specifically), so that is all bs as far as i'm concerned. i guess i should have been more thread specific.

..I don't care what anyone out there says, I have thoroughly been proven that expensive cables can drastically out perform cheap cables.

For anyone out there that believes that all cheap cables are as good as expensive cables, and all expensive cables are a rip-off, here is a fail proof test that will make you a believer, lol. (here comes the classic avs number count: )


Nothing to do with HDMI cables BUT...I will put up $2000 in money if you come to my house in florida and I will setup a good blind test for you....

I will bet that $2000 that you can not see the difference between monoprice.com component cable ($15) and Monster component cable ($55)!!!

This goes for the HDMI too!!! Monster HDMI at over $100 is A PURE RIPOFF. Dumbass people can buy all they want but I will stick with flawless monoprice.com products.

DizzyBoy, you are a simply a fool about this and this is how you post the first time on here? Post about component video cables in the one of the video theory forums. It will be fun to show you how wrong you are.

Are they worth buying? Are they better than other cables? Or is it just marketing BS? (have a reason for the marketing bs if you do call bs on the cables) Thanks.

Monster as a company is about marketing and huge markups. This well known in the AV world, avoid them at all costs since there are alternatives 2 to 3 times cheaper.

Monster products are good, no one questions that but at 3 times the price tag of comparable products why bother??

In the end if you absolutely have to buy monster then buy them through an ebay store front. The price tags there are 1/2 the price vs Best Buy prices and its the same product.

Everyone should realize that Monster products cost sometimes 1/10th of what they sell them for in a Best Buy, especially those HDMI cables over $100....who actually buys those???

So you are saying that I should just pick up the cheapest cables, interconnects & speaker wires I can find to hook up a sunfire amp to B&M speakers?

Or do you just hate Monster?

This is the kind of crap that flows from the internet "experts" on this site.
This is exactly what isn't needed in this thread.

In case you didn't know it Monster cables are actually cheap when compaired to a set of $3000 Nordost valhala speaker cables.

Unless you can do better than flaming a company I'm not intrested in what you have to say.
Show me some facts, not troll crap!



There are million challenges to win if you think speaker wire is different (straight wire vs straight wire).

There once was a great magazine called the audio critic and it debunk many, many things.

With ANY cable once you get to a certain level of quality, it wont perform better than that quality and there is simply no way to improve cables beyond that. The cost to obtain this quality is NOT that high so if someone is spending hundreds or thousand on any sort of cable they are simply wasting their money (and we like to poke fun at them ;) ). Its scientifically proven over and over and over but people will always deny it.

In the end, if someone wants to spend the money on extreme things we shouldnt stop them, its none of our business but if that same person thinks that their purchase makes better sound or better video then that person should prove it with science, not just "hey I see our hear the difference". Placebo stuff isnt valid here. If you didnt do a proper ABX test then your hearing or seeing something different is actually invalid in terms of science. Not surprisingly when put through a proper test, the true results show what the science crowd has been saying all along there isnt really a difference.

DizzyBoy, you are a simply a fool about this and this is how you post the first time on here? Post about component video cables in the one of the video theory forums. It will be fun to show you how wrong you are.


Lol, I am a fool, and you seem to be marketing for monoprice (hence the repeated "Monoprice!!" with the unforgotten ".com!").

In case you didnt understand my post, I wasn't asking about it, I was just TELLING you. yes this is the wrong forum but i already have one guy in here that agrees with me. then here comes you. Mr. monoprice.

I wasn't attacking your little webstore, i was stating that through my personal experience, all cables do not work equally well. and through your infinite wisdom, you brand me a fool. let me guess, you also think Monster is Satan himself right? i dont even need to lol....

Tell you what, I will come to your house next time im in FL and participate in your little magic show. Then I will take out my cables and see if you can pretend with a straight face that you CAN'T see a difference.

OK Bub?

Then I will take out my cables and see if you can pretend with a straight face that you CAN'T see a difference.


see a difference? I hope so! Hear on the other hand..........

Tell you what, I will come to your house next time im in FL and participate in your little magic show. Then I will take out my cables and see if you can pretend with a straight face that you CAN'T see a difference.

OK Bub?

Deal! I have a fine educated background, I lived with Engineers for too many years (during University years), I have travelled the world looking at manufacture/distribution systems so I know what Im talking about, what is your background again? Your component cables are not better then my component cables and mine are cheap (actually from ebay). I can garuntee it, 10 ft, no magic, Cable Box, One Plasma, HD discovery channel, plug either of them in and you will NOT SEE a difference. heck I have over 3000 ft of RG6 used for full house Component video distribution, you cant beat it!

Personally, I dont care about monoprice.com but I do love they cut the BS markups out of the products they sell.

In end the only fools are the people that buy Monster products and they are only fools because they are dupped into thinking $$$ equals performance. Monster products are 2-5x more then anyone should spend on cables.

You want to spend more fine but dont bother saying yours is better, you have NO SCIENCE to back it and that is ALL that matters!

Would I be able to tell any difference in Picture Quality between a category 1 cable and a category 2 cable when viewing HD over satellite to an HD Plasma?

What kind of material would you be able to see a difference on between category 1 and category 2? Does it make any difference with Blue Ray/HD-DVD or only some future content that we don't have yet?

Anyone out there know the answer to these questions?

Anyone out there know the answer to these questions?

Buy both and try them, then send one back. Only you are going to care about what you will see and how "subjectively" different it is.

I guess what I meant to ask is what amount of data would go over a satellite broadcast or ouput from a HD-DVD or blue-Ray Player.

Would the amount of information that they send be more than what a category 1 cable--if so a category 2--would it be better?

Or are there no current video materials that have so much data to make a category 2 cable worth it?

You will not see any picture quality difference between HDMI (or DVI) cables if the bits make it to the target intact. There is no error detection/correction encoded in the video stream (unlike the audio packets with HDMI). If random bits get dropped they will not subtly change the image. You'll see "sparklies" or maybe fail to get a connection if HDCP is enabled. This "property" of DVI/HDMI (TMDS) has not changed since DVI was first introduced years ago.

8bit RGB (or YCbCr 4:4:4) 1080p60 was close to the maximum amount of data you could send over a single TMDS link with DVI and the initial HDMI implementations. DVI spec'd a max 5m length and HDMI never did specify a maximum length. It's just a function of how much data you try push for a given distance over a metal cable. Since HDMI now allows higher max bandwidth the cat 2 "certification" was added. Just because a cable is cat 2 certified doesn't mean that it's any different (if not the same exact cable) than what was sold prior to cat 2.

larry

I'll buy category 2--maybe a zillion years from now when we're watching 9999P it might make a difference.

Sees full implementation...we'll all get nuked by some Islamofascist nutcase and the EMP will fry all our toys and this will all be a moot point!

Carpe Diem!


Greg:)

Is HDMI 1.3 and 1.3a the same thing?
If not, what is the difference?
How do you determine the category?
Is there a link or site that explains all the details of HDMI connections/cable:confused:? I've looked but can't find it.
Thanks-

Is HDMI 1.3 and 1.3a the same thing?
If not, what is the difference?
How do you determine the category?
Is there a link or site that explains all the details of HDMI connections/cable:confused:? I've looked but can't find it.
Thanks-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi

-Bill

Ok I don't know what I'm doing but after researching and researching my brain hurts after deciding on a tv. Then it started hurting reading about cables lol. I'm getting a samsung fpt5080 plasma (actually 3 of them I think, one for my parents and one for my sister for christmas) and I'm buying it off amazon. I'm going to order these cables to use with it.

HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified CL2 Rated (In-Wall Installation) Cable (24AWG) w/ Net Jacket - 10ft (Gold Plated)


I wanted to get 10ft ones in case I want to hang it on the wall. Anyone see any problems with any of this? This is the only cable I need to hook up the tv right? I have good speaker cables running from my reciever to my speakers and from my reciever to my subwoofer. Do I need new cables to run from the tv to the reciever or will the ones I was using from my tube tv be fine. thanks for all the help avs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi

-Bill
Thanks Bill!

This is a little off the subject but hopefully someone can help.

I have a 10meter DVI run which I have used for the last 3 years between
my SD DVD and SharpVision ZVX12000 without noticing problems. I don't
remember the company name but I got their name off of this site (started
with an "L"??).

What is the liklihood I'll have trouble when get that HD DVD (or Blu-Ray)
player I've been dreaming about and running the system at 1080i?

Thanks.