1394 Firewire Forum???

[Kipp Jones]

David,
Now that we have an HDMI area, any chance we could get a 1394 firewire area? Lots of questions out these with this connection method. Thanks.

[David Bott]

We can, but only if we get the 1394 design group involved with the area. The HDMI camp came to us and this the area was born seeing they will be taking part directly. It is not just an area to have an area, it is somewhere for the industry to come in and take part.

Get them to contact us and pledge to take part and we can consider it.

Thanks

[Kipp Jones]

David,
Expect to be contacted soon from James Snider who is the Executive Director of the 1394 Trade Association. Thanks.

[VideoGrabber]

This is a great idea, and I'd like to see a centralized area for discussion on this topic. Especially if we can get some participation from people who know what they're talking about.

- Tim

[Kipp Jones]

David,
Are we on track with this?

[David Bott]

Got an e-mail today, but was not able to contact them based on the issues with the site. I will look into it come Monday.

[Kipp Jones]

Great, thanks. Have a great weekend.

[Kipp Jones]

David,
Any update???

[David Bott]

Have not heard from them Kipp after my reply. So nothing is taking place currently.

[JSnider1394]

AVS Forum, count me in. It may take me a few days to track down answers, but I will do what I can. Bear with me if I seem to disappear for a week or two. I hit periods of heavy travel, but I will get back to you as soon as I return.

[David Bott]

Thanks James...Please be aware that the direct contact from people involved in 1394 that would make the area work. Without attention, where weeks can go by without answers, that really is not the intent. Deeper involvement would need to play a part by the 1394 group.

[FastEddy23]

I have no problem joining a public FireWire / 1394 forum. Count me in ...

Here is my usual rant:

I do hope you won't get too wrapped around the "1394" axle. IMOP this naming convention is one of the reasons that FireWire has never taken off in the consumer arena = lack of name recognition for what it really is: Apple's original and at the time, unique packet switching, double duplex, peer to peer data transport for external devices and systems. Sony adopted the iLink scenario shortly after Apple's introduction in order to get digital images out of their cameras and into desktop systems ... The combination of Apple's FireWire and Sony's iLink is the adopted IEEE 1394a subset.

Yes folks, there is a very healthy FireWire /1394 universe, composed mostly of professional audio (analog to digital mixing, recording & playback), professional CGI movie graphics (high resolution graphics rendering), industrial machine vision (robot eyes, process monitor & control, home land security) and secure high performance peer to peer networking. FireWire 400 (1394a) is faster and has more bandwidth than either USB2.0 or GigaBit Ethernet for streaming audio or video, FireWire 800 (1394b) is more than twice as fast as GigaBit Ethernet. FireWire audio has better latency and much, much less jitter problems than USB1.1 or USB 2.0. ... Optically transported FireWire 400 DV video can stream four feeds at a time out to a quarter of a mile, USB 2.0 can nominally handle one stream to a maximum of about 150 feet.

My link is: FireWireStuff ... online with FireWire / iLink / IEEE 1394a/b parts and accessories since 1997.

[rezzy]

1394 may be withering consumer-wise, but industrially (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/partners/cameras.html) speaking, it's not only surviving, but thriving nicely.

[oztech]

is there a reason that there is a decline in consumer 1394 is it cost or politics.

[VideoGrabber]

oztech inquired:
> is there a reason that there is a decline in consumer 1394 is it cost or politics. <

Neither one. It's that most consumer 1394 is so poorly implemented and incompatible with other so-called 1394 devices that most consumers are unwilling to put up with the grief from expensive gear that doesn't work a goodly portion of the time.

Consumer 1394 killed itself, due to pi$$-poor implementations by JVC, Motorola, LG, Samsung, etc.

- Tim

[FastEddy23]

" ... 1394 may be withering consumer-wise, but industrially speaking, it's not only surviving, but thriving nicely. ..."

" ... is there a reason that there is a decline in consumer 1394 is it cost or politics.[?] ..."

There was a serious effort by Cypress Technology to infiltrate and undermine FireWire 1394 market position. Cypress Technology are makers of excellent and universally compatible USB chip sets, best of the best USB, IMOP. But Cypress marketing & management took a tack several years ago that FireWire was somehow "the competition" and thus overtly and covertly took it upon themselves to shoot down FireWire 1394 in the engineering marketplace.

Fortunately, there were and are several significant technical advantages that FireWire 400 (IEEE 1394a) has over USB 2.0:

* FireWire is faster than USB 2.0 (even with a slower processor clock rate).
* FireWire is "peer to peer" making it more stable and closer to true "plug and play".
* FireWire actually is cheaper to produce than USB 2.0, primarily because it is less complicated.
* Although FireWire cabling is slightly more expensive to produce, it more redily conforms to radio noise polution requirements of the FCC ... and to common sense.
...

(Mercenary announcement: I work for usbstuff and firewirestuff ... online with both for more than 10 years.)

[Krobar]

Thanks James...Please be aware that the direct contact from people involved in 1394 that would make the area work. Without attention, where weeks can go by without answers, that really is not the intent. Deeper involvement would need to play a part by the 1394 group.

Hi David,

I dont see any involvement from the 1394TA aside from the Cable box thread which is linked with thier own agenda. Is there any point in keeping this forum open?

[6volt]

I thought this was the firewire forum?

[FastEddy23]

There is another FireWire forum at Apple's Developers' Forums ... but I thought you folks wanted to have a public one here ... I'm willing to continue to contribute if anyone a willingness to do so as well ...

[6volt]

My interest in IEEE1394 is strictly MPEG-2-TS, the only digital format which is used as both inputs and outputs on only D-VHS components so far to my knowledge.

Since D-VHS is the only way to record HD (so far) and TS is the only way to interface with D-VHS or HTPC's, then this TS format is a critical link and of great importance.

On thing of interest is OTA tuners. What will be their output? HDMI I would think, but will they also have TS? If not, that will basically eliminate the ability to record HD since TS is required to do so.

When the Toshiba HD-DVD w/HDD is finally released to this market, it will be interesting to see what it will have as inputs.
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What I find confusing is the i.Link does not imply anything regarding TS operability.
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With SD, demodulated RF resulted in a VIDEO signal. Now with HD, is there such a thing as the "VIDEO" signal? Component is almost an "RF" version of a digital signal so that is definitely not a standard. Is MPEG-2-TS the "VIDEO" signal? Is HDMI the encrypted "VIDEO" signal? is it encrypted MPEG-2-TS? (I don't even want to talk about DVI at this point.)

[FastEddy23]

" ... My interest in IEEE1394 is strictly MPEG-2-TS, the only digital format which is used as both inputs and outputs on only D-VHS components so far to my knowledge ..."

That may very well be, in the mainstream at least.

FYI: There are also several bi-directional professional and audiophile grade digital audio formats, the most popular seems to be the ASIO standard used by pros in pro audio studio and stage recording. check out the 24bit audio stuff from just about any pro equipment maker: M-Audio, Roland (Edirol), Tascam, EchoAudio.com, ... many more ...

(" What I find confusing is the i.Link does not imply anything regarding TS operability. ..." iLink was a Sony version of FireWire, which has since been encapsulated into the main IEEE1394a-2000 standard = a sub set if you will, although there isn't much missing from iLink such that it is in effect synonymous with 1394a = same, same for all practical purposes.)