We have lost power again in my area (ice storm) and this is the last straw.

I have been eyeing a Generac Generator for a couple of years (liquid cooled model). They are not inexpensive so I was wondering how those of you that own them would rate them in terms of reliability and maintenance over the years.

I am looking at a 20 KW or 30 KW model. The 20 W will run my whole house as if there is no outage and 1 AC compressor. The 30 will that and run all my AC compressors.

Anyone here own one of these. These are fully automatic and require no user input for powering on. It runs on natural gas.

If we want to keep it somewhat on topic, I am sure I can run my power hungry theater on it..

Generac, Kohler and some other manufacturers provide similar units. They can be useful at times. One situation to remember is, these units need to be run regularly in order to operate properly. Some of the units have timers, which can be set to automatically run the generator and swap over the residential loads.

A second possibility is to get a portable generator, have an electrician install the necessary interfacing equipment (disconnects, interlocks etc.) so that all you have to do is plug the generator into the interface and start the unit. This is a much cheaper method BTW.

25kw natural gas generator minimum: specify a low RPM unit for quiet operation and a sound box

check local codes : I needed a variance and local code had a noise level spec which was impossible to meet: there are setbacks from the property line and clearances from the house in the codes: should be mounted on a concrete base

oversize the generator breaker panel so you can add additional loads

when your A/C compressor turns on, beware your audio system may kick out

I actually sell and install Generac generators. In general I would recommend a 16 KW unit. This is the largest residential generator that they sell. The larger liquid cooled ones require more work to install and maintain. The 16 KW can come with an automatic transfer switch that will power any 16 circuits of your choosing. It can also be wired to power your whole home, although if you have a really large home, a whole house transfer switch is probably not a good idea. For Detroit, I wouldn't even put the AC units on it unless you often lose power in the Summer. In Buffalo, almost all of our outages are in the Winter months.

Mark,

Good to know.

My city has a strict noise ordinance. 70 db from 25 ft away. THe Generac models (Quietsource) are rated from 70-72 db. I will ask my electrician about the low RPM - meaning I may have to go with a larger unit.

If it fails the noise test, I have to build a wall (brick, etc) to further dampen it and hide it with evergreens, etc.

My city requires 3 permits (noise, mechanical, electric). They are a real PITA.

Thanks for the advice.

I think if you are in a region where severe weather can knock out the power it is a good idea. One person that I know installed a 30k gas powered set-up. The hurricane forced some people to rethink whether they need a generator. I only have a small one for back up power. I own a large spread of property north of New Orleans and am investigation both solar as well as generator power for it as I plan to build my retirement home there. I believe that high gas prices are going to do more than create cars with alternative power sources. Something that I have been watching for years is battery technology. My hope is that as car companies develope solution for cars, and off-shoot will be large batteries with great storage capacity that can serve as back-up power in such cases. Perhaps such batteries could be kept charged with trickle solar power. Does not help your current situation though. On another note, I have been watching such companies for awhile as good stock investment candidates. The company that figures out high tech battery storage is going to be a very profitable one.

I have a fairly large house, with 9 tons of AC (5 + 4) and was going go just go the whole house route (35 or 40 kw), with 1000 gallon buried LP tank.......UNTIL i found out how much it would cost to run the damn thing for a week (Southern louisiana, huricane season).....

Check the generac data sheets on fuel usage (available online), they are hungry.

I beieve the quite models run around 1200-1600 rpm...and they have real mufflers..not noisy at all (sound like a honda civic)....

I would go with the 20ish Kw, automatic transfer and pick 1 ac unit and 1 section of the house (for me, kitchen/keeping/living/1 guest room/1 bathroom/ hotwater heater/ and the 5 ton unit). you dont even know the other side of the house is hot!



Mark,

Good to know.

My city has a strict noise ordinance. 70 db from 25 ft away. THe Generac models (Quietsource) are rated from 70-72 db. I will ask my electrician about the low RPM - meaning I may have to go with a larger unit.

If it fails the noise test, I have to build a wall (brick, etc) to further dampen it and hide it with evergreens, etc.

My city requires 3 permits (noise, mechanical, electric). They are a real PITA.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm glad someone mentioned this, I have been mulling over the idea of installing an LP unit in the new house, which is already going to have an LP tank... Thanks everyone for the info...Something that I have been watching for years is battery technology.Bulldogger---do a Google search on "EEStor", if you haven't already. If they succeed in getting real product out, it's going to be revolutionary stuff. For example:

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html

...and for us people that live in earthquake country, propane might be a better way to go because of natural gas line breakage.

Why not go with:

(1) a smaller unit (~10kW),
(2)a 5-10kW solar array,
(3) and a few of these (http://www.skystreamenergy.com/skystream/product-info/) puppies.
(4) A nice bank of deep cycle batteries will store the extra energy in order to supply nice clean energy when you need it.

This way, you'll lower your bills 24/7 AND be ready for emergency instead of paying a huge chuck of money for a system that is used maybe once a year.

Something "alternative" to think about.

Hi


First. I doubt 20 KW can do anything for your house... unless you restrict yourself to not running AC, most appliances, etc. Keep in mind the following. Most electric motors draw sometimes up to 3 times their nominal output... Just think of the many electrical motors in the typical american house and also think of the heating elements... An electrical iron is usually a 1.5 KW energy devouring device... A microwave oven takes its 1.8 KW easy and a 100 gallons water heater often has 2 4,500 watts heating elements.... That is 9,000 watts just for the water heater. Of course it does not work all the time but when it does make sure this does not coincide with a few AC compressors starting or 2 people ironing or.. you get my point....
Adding these up will take you over 20 KW easy.

LP and Diesel generators would be the preferred way to go. Some do come in self contained form some of them can be rather silent. Good name with sterling reputation are (among others) ONAN , Kohler. They can come with is called in the industry an automatic Transfer switch wich starts them up when main power goes off and disconnects them from the house once commercial AC is restored. THe switching is rather fast but not fast enough for sensitive electronics not to be turned off or damaged sometimes if you do have that kind of problem a UPS could become a necessity, it keeps certain fragile or important things alive while the generator is spinning up to be up to the demand of the load.

Micahel, yes batteries are an option and we in Haiti and other countries use them to power our houses, some use the DC current but most people use a DC to AC inverter. Often the batteries charger (AC to DC rectifier) and the Inverter (DC to AC inverter) are housed in one box called an "Inverter". THe "Inverter" is usually a Battery charger, DC to AC Inverter and Transfer switch capable of controlling generators... Battery capacity is a function of the total load and of the autonomy required to put things in perspective. If you were to run a regular American house with all its equipment functioning as usual a bank of battery costing say $10,000 and taking the area of a one car garage will power it for, maybe 2 hours if that much.. So yes batteries can be used but you have to use different unless you curtail the use of energy devouring appliances.. No way you can run water heater on batteries for example ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.. Batteries can and are used in residential setting all over the world but a different strategy of home energy must be devised... more later..

Frantz,

Running the AC is not what I am after. It is keeping warm and pipes from freezing.

You may be right about the size. My guy is coming out to size it.

We have 2 large refridgerators, wine fridge, 2 bar fridges, wine cellar AC unit. All total, I have 4 AC compressors for the home (just under 6000 sq ft). I wouldn't pay for a large enough unit to run all of them..but one would suffice.

I'll check out the other options you mentioned or a larger Generac. To be fair, my elctrician guesstimated over the phone - he has yet to come out and size things up...

Thanks!

i have a Kohler 11RMY 11kw Natural Gas generator wired into my home electrical system. it was here when i purchased the home three years ago (the home is now 6 years old). at the time it seemed a bit of an extravigance......but recently it seemed to be the most important feature of the house.

i live in the mountains 30 miles east of Seattle on 4 1/3rd acres. we are at about 1100 ft elevation. the house is 5200 sq. ft. it uses radient floor heat so there is no heater fan to run but there are pumps for each branch of the heat. i do have a separate 1800 sq ft barn which has a heat pump but the generator does not power that.

i have a water feature with a big pump, a front gate, and a hot tub/spa (NG heated) all of which are powered by the generator. most of the house runs on the generator except the ovens in the Kitchen. my HT (in the house) is not powered by the generator but my other TV's are. i do have direct TV satellite for when the cable is down.

the generator turns on automatically 10 seconds after the power goes off and then shuts down automatically 30 seconds after the power comes back on. every friday morning at 10am the generator runs for 20 minutes as a test.

when i bought the home the generator had about 50 hours on it. up until a month ago it had about 120 hours on it. some from the power outages we do have for various reasons (mostly weather related) and the test runs.

on December 14th we had a '100 year' windstorm. basically the whole of western Washington was affected.....1.5 million people were without power for at least a day, about 800,000 were without power for 3-4 days.......and 125,000 were without power for over a week.

i had no power, cable tv or internet service for 8 days. you think that is no big deal but unless you go thru it.....it is hard to imagine how much you depend on electricity to live.

i was very lucky and here is why. guess what......gas stations run on electricity.....no electricity.....no gas. wide areas were without electricity and therefore people could not get gas. many people had generators but these people had to keep filling these gas tanks with a dwindling supply of gasoline. people were driving 50 miles to get gas for their generators. cars were dead oon the side of the road having run out of gas. the stations that had gas ran dry. kinda like a made-for-tv movie.

i had an uniterupptable supply of natural gas.

you cannot appreciate how essential my generator became to my comfort level.

another thing.....natural gas burns clean. my generator ran for eight straight days without stopping. on the 6th day i did shut it down for 5 minutes to check the oil. it had not used a drop and was perfectly clean.

this generator 'rocks'.

one additional point.

at the auto dealership i manage we were without power for over 2 days. we have three generators but had never used them fo so long before. it turns out that the UPS's for our main computers and phone system were not compatible with the 'dirty' electrical output of our generators.

for the last three weeks we have been researching this issue and have figured it out. we are installing a 'gen-tran' system which will be a pre-wired panel we will easily and quickly be able to switch over to generator power and at least power our main computer and phone. we have also tested a 7500 watt Honda generator with an 'inverter' that does work with the UPS of our phone system and main computer. this generator lists for $4k. if you have some computer issues consider this approach.

i am learning waaaay more than i ever wanted to know about generators.

unfortunately the windstorm of a month ago left behind a very fragile power grid for the entire region. it will likely be 6 months to a year before we can feel that things are back where they were prior to the windstorm. we are seeing lots of flickers and short outages. so having a good generator solution has become essential around here.

Did major research on these before my purchase. I went with a Cummins commercial unit after checking out Kohler. Kohler makes a nice product but their distribution system allows NC dealers ro sell them for thousands more than any other state in the union. Since they must be started at setup by an authorized dealer to validate warranty I rulesd out Kohler. Generac is more of a low end unit. Check the rpm of the engine and fuel consumption. They are available with an automatic exerciser that runs them for 10 minutes every few weeks.

A good electrician can also designate one panel as essential and move the circuits that you truly need to that panel. We have a 20kw unit that will run everything in the main part of our house for several weeks on a 1000 gallon lp tank.

This company sells by mail and they are one of the largest dealers in the US. Most dealers order from manufacturer when you place an order, he has millions in inventory. The recent rash of storms may have put even him behind. His web site is informative and he carries the major brands.
http://www.generatorjoe.net/product.asp?0=0&1=0&3=335

I have the same Kohler 11RMY 11kw Natural Gas generator as Mike

a couple of years ago a substation transformer blew out and we were without power for 10 days in the summer: each day was over 100 degrees: the generator did me proud and kept one 3 ton A/C and essentials running without problem: we lived in the one air conditioned room (which happened to be my HT) the whole time

But every time the A/C compressor cycled on, my HT would drop out because of the voltage drop: I have UPS supplies that keep the PC and other loads running until the generator kicks in: UPS supplies draw a heavy load on a generator

I got a quote to install a larger generator but it would have been too big for the pad: that is why I suggested Jeff consider a 25kw unit minimum: knowing he has larger loads in his house: most folks install 25 kw units in large new houses in my area

fwiw: a neaby resident who is a day trader installed 2 high speed generators to prepare for Y2K: these things (I think they were 35 kw each) were screamers: they were so loud he only ran them as backup for the Y2K event (turns out they were not needed) and then had to remove them because of noise complaints: he dropped a bundle on that mistake

Living in Miami, I know about generators.

We recently bought 15kw liquid propane Generac generator. It runs both air conditioning units ( 3 ton and 5 ton unit) as well as all the electrical inside. Things you cannot run are electric heaters, the oven, strong electric motors (like a circular saw or compressor) because they eat up a ton of juice and can pop a breaker.

If you can, go with a natural gas line straight from the city so you don't have to buy a tank. Mines needed a tank because my area does not have natural gas lines.

Last major outage we had a 400lb propane tank last 5 days (AC in the day, off at night)

In Jan '03, after a "last straw" 3-day Dec. (a very cold one) power outage, I installed a 15KW Generac, running off a 1K gal propane tank. I picked it up at Home Depot (they loaded it in my horse trailer :) ), and installed everything myself except the propane hook-up and trenching/cables from generator to house. I bought the Generac dedicated transfer switch separately, since I had the builder install an aux. generator panel w/breakers when I built the house, so I didn't need the switching/breaker combo unit that comes w/the generator.

Has been 100% reliable, through probably at least 15 outages so far (3 days was probably the longest). Performs its automitic 15-min. exercise every week. Runs my HT gear (including PJ and Krell monoblocks) w/no detectable change in performance.

On the generator circuit:
all lites and most plugs
water heater
furnace
refrigerator
disposal
microwave
well pump
phone & alarm systems

Not on generator:
A/C
washer & dryer
dishwasher
trash compactor

If I were to do it again, I would at least research a larger unit, b/c the A/C would have been reeeeeeeally nice during a couple of mid-summer outages. But other than that, I would highly recommend the Generac.

We recently bought 15kw liquid propane Generac generator. It runs both air conditioning units ( 3 ton and 5 ton unit) as well as all the electrical inside. Things you cannot run are electric heaters, the oven, strong electric motors (like a circular saw or compressor) because they eat up a ton of juice and can pop a breaker.


Re. "strong electric motors": if you allow for the motor's startup surge current in your total usage calculations, you can run them off the generator. Your A/C units have a huge surge for their motors. My well pump, which is on my generator circuit, runs at 6A @ 230V, and has a 15A surge (and it frequently cycles on and off).

Jeff, email me mburnste@dmc.org and I'll give you my generator installer. I am replacing my 25KW unit tomorrow with one that will be quieter (the noisy one came with the home, but won't pass a use permit db test). This will do my entire house including the 3 HVAC zones. Luckily, we have kept the noisy generator connected since we moved in last year and it kicked on twice this past 2 months, including 12 hours yesterday!

MarkWe have lost power again in my area (ice storm) and this is the last straw.

I have been eyeing a Generac Generator for a couple of years (liquid cooled model). They are not inexpensive so I was wondering how those of you that own them would rate them in terms of reliability and maintenance over the years.

I am looking at a 20 KW or 30 KW model. The 20 W will run my whole house as if there is no outage and 1 AC compressor. The 30 will that and run all my AC compressors.

Anyone here own one of these. These are fully automatic and require no user input for powering on. It runs on natural gas.

If we want to keep it somewhat on topic, I am sure I can run my power hungry theater on it..

What about guardian generators. I have seen there ad a few times on TV and there sold @ Home Depot.
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/default.aspx

I believe that the Guardian generators are Generac's.

I have a 45kw Coleman on my home here in the desert. It runs my whole house, except for the oven and cooktop. I have actually had it running and supplying power to all my AC (over 20 tons). My house is all glass, and without it, I would quickly cook if the power went out in the summer.

I am looking at installing a Generac at a second home up North, where I will have a smaller load. I will probably go with a 35kw, which will run the whole house up there.

Hi

Keep one thing in mind. Most Generators one is likely to consider in the USA are of the "stand-by" type. THey assume they will work for a certain amount of time less than 8 hours per day.. They usually run at a higher RPM and are not meant to work every day for long hours. They can be do it but their useful life is severely curtailed under such utilization. The Coleman are definitely of the light duty variety... and are as low wend as one can get. Decent for occasional use and their regulation (stability of output under different loads) is to put it nicely just OK.
Generac is in the world of generators a so-so brand (not that bad but not that great either ) ONAN, Honda, Kohler,etc stands at the top of such generators
By the way a 35 KW with not much frills can be had for less than 20 K with a silent enclosure...

I have owned a 25kW Generac gas generator for 13 years. Wired into a special circuit board that services one HVAC, selected lighting and receptacle circuits around the house, garage doors, gate, alarm, etc.

Has an automatic transfer switch to power on when main circuit fails. Runs once a week on autotest, and has an annunciator panel for quick review of status.

Maintenance is expensive and must be done regularly or it will not be working when you need it. However, it was invaluable during a multiple day power failure during a hurricaine a few years ago. Not sure I would do it again just becuase of recurring service expense but I always change my mind when we lose power.

Will provide more specifics on request.

The engine r.p.m. and continuous load rating is important. The specs are easy to compare, noise level is published in dB and the gallons per hours at 75% load are readily available.The differences between brands can be eye opening at $1.80/gallon. I was also advised that the generators are most efficient running at around 75% load. Undersizing and oversizing can cause problems and result in greatly decreased efficiency. You or your electrician can read the tags on your aplliances/HVAC/etc. and total the load requirement.

Perfectionist2,
What expensive maintenance is there? The engines require oil changes like any automotive engine and there may be a battery in the controller to replace but what other expenses are you referring to? I plan on replacing the oil with synthetic although this is probably overkill.

I have mine maintained by the authorized Generac service vendor in my area. Although more expensive than doing it myself, they guarantee 24/7 service to regular customers should the unit fail during a power outage. This is the same company that services the Generacs I see installed at most of the banks in my area (I live in Texas).

I have a regular maintenance about every 12-18 months. Every few years it needs a new battery or spark plugs. Oil and filter are changed regularly and coolant replaced when indicated. Regular maintenance usually takes 2+ hours to perform and includes a thorough test of multiple components, etc. Have had some other parts fail over the 13 years - nothing major with the exception of the radiator which needed to be replaced once.

I estimate it costs an average of $700 per year to maintain, however, because I live about 40 minutes away from their facility, this includes an about $100 travel charge which apparently is not uncommon in the commercial business. I am one of only a few non-commerical customers.

I could probably get service a little cheaper if I shopped around but the only reason to own a generator is to have it function 100% of the time when needed and I feel more comfortable with an authorized dealer.

One more point.

Fire regulations in your area need to be consulted. The fire department may want to know that you have a generator.

When responding to a fire one of the first things they do is kill the house power at the switch located outside your house (usually near your meter). Depending on local regulations, they may need access to your generator power so they don't get electrocuted when spraying water in your house thinking the power is off when in fact a generator is running.

Ice got my power 2 days ago.

Hence this thread....maybe you too!

I'm glad someone mentioned this, I have been mulling over the idea of installing an LP unit in the new house, which is already going to have an LP tank... Thanks everyone for the info...Bulldogger---do a Google search on "EEStor", if you haven't already. If they succeed in getting real product out, it's going to be revolutionary stuff. For example:

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html
Great info Mike. Just the kind of stuff I am looking for. Turns out I lost power for a few hours last night. Not too cold down here, around 35 degrees, but it still was a pain in the arse.

Austin has been iced in for a couple days, too. My folks didn't lose power, nor did the community I'm going to build in. But you can bet I'm still reading this thread with interest...

Austin? Been around Bee Cave? Nice homes there. I drove out there when I was visiting Houston in Aug 05. Guy there was selling some RPG Skylines but did not want to ship them. Lots cut into the side of hills and terraced so that one property sits above the other and does not block the view of the other houses. Lots over look a valley. Gated community with guards. I am sure these homes are 1/3 of what they would cost in California. Also Ne Plus Audio is really cool out there. Balanced Audio dealer as well as a lot of other high end gear. True, iced up out there. Severe weather over a large part of the country. Another benefit of solar power is that in some areas of the country, you can actually generate enough power for your own use and sell some back to the grid. Being able to store the power for days when sunlight in not optimal and not selling the power back will make solar power more practical. Back to that batt tech.

To conclude, I ordered a 25KW Generac (60 db at low load and 69-76 db at full load) and a 300 Amp transfer switch (left the Home Theater electrical panel off the generator).

Bumped to post the new article about EEStor's batteries.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/

Bulldogger---yeah, I've been to Bee Cave, it's pretty nice! You can indeed get some nice homes, but of course you'd be living in BFE.

the bland

Maje sure you wire an electrical outlet back into the genrac unit.
You will then go out and get the little magnetic heater that is available at any auto parts place. You will plug it in; set the thermostat and then will not worry when it gets below 0 for any length of time. I own a generac 16kw. unit. its quiet, and easy to install.

PS. A story to be told. 10 years ago I had a older generator, my first one. 7 days after I hooked it up we had a big thunderstorm; took a lighting hit near the house and lost power. My wife called me and told me my piece of crap never turned on. Unit tried to turn over but would not start. Long story short. Ligting bolt hit the gas line after it hit a well. Took power out for the whole nieghborhood; Oh and the gas line with it. You can't win.

Make sure your installer balances your loads that you connect to it.
Also UPS systems really do not like the voltage sent to them by a standby generator. Keep that in mind.

The 25kW Generac is a different animal. It's very loud and large. But it's also reliable.

During a hurricane a few years ago, we lost power for 3 days. Mine uses natural gas and ran flawlessly for 72 hours.

But as previously discussed they need regular maintenance. ATS is also quite large but can be mounted high on an inside garage wall.

Recommend buying an annunciator panel and place it in your garage in a visible location so you can tell when there's a problem It monitors all critical functions and sets off an alarm and illuminates red LEDs so you can tell it needs service (battery, oil pressure, coolant, etc,).

hey guys

I design datacenters for zero down requirements so I thought i put my input in here.

are you guys looking for instant cut over without losing juice at all or is downtime acceptable while the gen kicks in (takes about 1 minute - 2 minutes for most residential)? If downtime is acceptable then any of the gen mentioned work quite well, just keep an eye on LPG/Propane availability during a cane or any other natural disaster if getting fed by the city. If it has it's own tank then the worry is not as big but from a cost perspective, lpg and propane will use a lot more fuel per hour than a diesel based system. Most gen in datacenter use diesel.

good luck on your purchase!

Good suggestions.

I have to get a variance so it won't be installed until after that clears (Mar 18).

Not too loud. it is rated at 57 db in exercise mode and up to 76 db at full load @ 25 ft.

The magnetic heater is a great idea for cold starts.

The annunciator...Is that by Generac?

I do not need seamless back up as this is simply residential.

I looked at batteries but I want something that can go a week or more if needed w/o interruption.

25kW should do my whole hgouse, wine cellar and 1 AC compressor similtaneously. (NO THEATER though :()

First, I should state that I purchased my Generac in 1993 so it may not compare at all to current models.

It's pretty loud (don't know dBA) when it runs - deep gutteral engine sound - you might like the bass effect!

My annunciator is manufactured by Generac and made to compliment the generator. Since my generator is behind a pool building I don't hear it and don't really see it. Therefore, the annunciator is the lifeline to the generator. I never look at the ATS.

Are you sure refrigerators & freezers with their startup power requirments won't be damaged if your generator is at max? My electrician spent a lot of time calculating loads, etc.

Will a propane tank last a week? I have city natural gas so I'm vulnerable to a disruption in gas lines but unless that occurs it will run forever.

One more suggestion

The generator does not come with a battery. Batteries Plus has a super start battery guarenteed to start at 25 or 30 below zero I believe. Battery cost about $120.00 but for where you live; you should get it.

BTW they make two types of heaters. magnetic and non magnetic. Don't let someone talk you into the nonmagnetic. Someone I know almost burned up his generator with one. The magnetic one is the one to get.

Make sure the auto start check is set on a day when you are usually home, so you can make sure its working.

We have a 16 Kw air cooled Generac here in Indiana that is starting hard when it gets below about 20 degrees. We are looking at the various types of heaters to keep the block/oil warm enough to help it crank better. How can a non magnetic heater cause a generator to burn up?? Was it set to high and placed to close to plastic parts?

Thanks, Steve


One more suggestion

The generator does not come with a battery. Batteries Plus has a super start battery guarenteed to start at 25 or 30 below zero I believe. Battery cost about $120.00 but for where you live; you should get it.

BTW they make two types of heaters. magnetic and non magnetic. Don't let someone talk you into the nonmagnetic. Someone I know almost burned up his generator with one. The magnetic one is the one to get.

Make sure the auto start check is set on a day when you are usually home, so you can make sure its working.

Wow. Haven't seen this thread in a while. I ended up installing a 25kW Generac last year. We've had multiple outages since (one being 4 full days straight last summer). It runs the house, theater and 3 AC compressors all at once - though after an outage each AC compressor has delay so all don't power on at once. Liquid cooled. Relatively quiet overall - especially for exercise.

First of all, if you don't have a UPS on all your electronics, you really should and this has nothing to do with the generator. To me it's a must.

As for the backup power, if you go with a smaller unit, all you would have to do is unplug all unnecessary stuff and frankly, there IS a lot that you can unplug for quite some time.

You can easily plan your shower/bathing if you wanted to. After all, it IS more of an emergency situation than anything.

Say the power goes out. You unplug some stuff but keep other stuff plugged in.

IF you need to heat some water then you can easily turn off the AC or something else for an hour or two while the heater gives you water.

Also, if you already have gas, it would be easy to install a tankless water heater. This gives you an unlimited amount of hot water IF you have water and gas coming to you.

IF you decided to do this however, e mail me or pm me for more details as I've had some issues with mine.

George

Do the entire house if you are going to do a generator, and bury an extra propane tank to power it a few weeks in case of extended emergencies...

We had a smaller unit in my last house and the three day power outage on the east coast convinced us to go with a full house unit when we moved to our new house. When the power goes out we get thirty seconds or so without power, then life continues again as if nothing happened.

Wow. Haven't seen this thread in a while. I ended up installing a 25kW Generac last year. We've had multiple outages since (one being 4 full days straight last summer). It runs the house, theater and 3 AC compressors all at once - though after an outage each AC compressor has delay so all don't power on at once. Liquid cooled. Relatively quiet overall - especially for exercise.

If you don't mind saying, what did you pay for this setup?

Here I sit reading this thread in a hotel as the power was knocked out to almost 300,000 homes early this am due to 50-60 mph winds in Metro-Detroit.....I have two AC's, two furnaces, and lots of power hungry appliances including a large built in refrigerator in the kitchen and extra frig/freezer in the walk out basement. I have a newer home (2004), 4,600 sq. ft with 200 AMP service.

My wife and kids are sleeping while I worry if my sump pump is working and the temp in the house is down to 50 degrees!!!! Power is supposed to be back in the next 1-3 days.

I am curious what I should expect to pay for a 25kw system like THE BLAND's??

This is the last straw!!!! No mercy here in D-Town in 2008!!

Brett,

Sorry to hear about your current situation. Ballpark is around $10,000-14,000 depending on the size and make of the generator. A few of us have purchased from www.generatorjoe.com. He has the generators in stock vs. all the dealers that I contacted who would order a generator from the factory. There is a good explanation and tool for calculating the load that you will actually have and sizing accordingly. They are most efficient running at 75% capacity. At the upper end of this price range you can purchase an industrial vs the lower cost consumer models.

Good luck getting back home soon.

Dave

Here I sit reading this thread in a hotel as the power was knocked out to almost 300,000 homes early this am due to 50-60 mph winds in Metro-Detroit.....I have two AC's, two furnaces, and lots of power hungry appliances including a large built in refrigerator in the kitchen and extra frig/freezer in the walk out basement. I have a newer home (2004), 4,600 sq. ft with 200 AMP service.

My wife and kids are sleeping while I worry if my sump pump is working and the temp in the house is down to 50 degrees!!!! Power is supposed to be back in the next 1-3 days.

I am curious what I should expect to pay for a 25kw system like THE BLAND's??

This is the last straw!!!! No mercy here in D-Town in 2008!!

Our generator purchase occured years after 'last straw' outages... I live in metro Detroit as well and those winds, oddly, sparred us this last time..

As far as cost.. It is a liquid-cooled 25 kW Generac. It has a sound deadening covering (required by my city). I had a patient that distributed them and he delivered it to me for $7200 including Transfer Switch (cost to his electricians). I think a good price from a dealer would be closer to $8 - $9K for that model... but I do not know.

EDIT:Our house is just under 6K sq ft. We have 3 AC compressors for the house. In addition, there is a mini-split for the theater and smaller AC compressor for a wine cellar, 2 large fridges, 2 smaller fridges, 3 furnaces. 300 amp service.

Also:

$800. I had to upgrade my gas meter to a larger model to handle the increased gas load. Gas company installed it.
$500. Cement slab had to be poured to support it. Dimensions are 6' X 2' X 2' (approx).
$750. For Gas Piping (30 ft) from meter to generator. HVAC company installed.
$1700. Electricians fees / materials
$300. Permits (electrical, engineering, noise, landscape - generator required to be screened from view with plants / trees).
$500 Generac start up fee/ tune up / warranty activation.

Maintenance: $250 every 6 mos for oil changes, tune up, etc.. The unit 'exercises' for 10 minutes a week automatically.

Dave's estimate is pretty close...

We had a stretch a few months ago where it ran 4 days... Even though the cost of such a unit / installation is outrageous to me, we sure enjoy it during outages. No regrets.

Mburnstein, my neighbor here on the forum, installed the identical model as well.

I see you live in Northville, I'm 20 minutes away... I've got the names of the gas & electrical companies I used. Very neat, expert, and competitively priced. PM me if you want more info (or to stop by and check out the installation).

Thanks for the detailed information about the unit and the additional cost considerations.

Power is back on and all is well.....for now.

I am really struggling with justifying this expenditure....I appreciate the help from everyone who has posted here and to The Bland for offering to share specific contractor information and offering to see it first hand.

I will post back as I ponder this investment. Thanks again and have a safe New Year.

I am really struggling with justifying this expenditure....

My house was pre-wired for a generator; unfortunately the AC and heavy appliances (washer/dryer, trash compactor) were on different circuits, and it would have been a major house re-wire job to put them on the generator circuit. So I got the 15KW Generac at Home Depot for about $3K (had them load it into the back of my horse trailer and 'delivered' it myself :) ). Auto-transfer switch was another couple hundred (IIRC); trenching and runs for gas/electrical was another $2K or so.

Once you have one, you can't for the life of you imagine how you lived w/out it....It sometimes runs for days during long power outages, and except for "roughing it" being w/out washer/dryer or AC in summer, it's life as usual (including my HT :cool: )...

So if you're willing to leave some things off the generator circuit, the 15KW model could be a cheaper option for you.