Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread [Text View] - Page 10

glow11

07-23-07, 04:53 PM

Why the big hurry? I'll keep following this thread to see if Samsung can efficiently work out the glitches that the 81 series will inevitably demonstrate. Remember the HDMI-related issues in the 65 series? Although instant gratification works in the short run, jumping into a new technology with both feet seems risky over the long haul. Good luck!

I would assume the 30 day return policy would take care of any major risk.
Unless BBY's return policy is different on pre-orders or TV's...anyone know offhand if there would be a problem returning a pre-ordered TV?

bearfun

07-23-07, 05:12 PM

the 71 might have some stiff competition fro the new toshiba line and LG HAS A 57"120 HZ COMMING OUT SEP FOR 4500.00 hummmmmm

Transcend

07-23-07, 05:24 PM

the 71 might have some stiff competition fro the new toshiba line and LG HAS A 57"120 HZ COMMING OUT SEP FOR 4500.00 hummmmmm

Also from the new 120hz Mits with cablecard and thin(ner?) frame.

spincut

07-23-07, 05:28 PM

CRT contrast ratio numbers decrease in similar fashion to LED LCD. LED LCD can hold the black level better though. Maybe your tube had far less light output and your lcd couldn't go dim enough?

decrease how? like when dynamically when the scenei s darker? Also, when my LCD uses the light sensor and dims the backlight further down than the min regular setting, it looks darker and dimmer than my CRT TV though to get it that tolerable way, whereas my CRT TV still looks bright and virbant, it just isnt overbearing, i still dont know why.

BBY in stock date is 8/26/07
price
40" = 3
46" = 4
52" = 5
57" = 8

you made a similar looking post in the sony thread with the same date, are you sure you're not mixed up? somehow i dont see the 81 being released on the 26 of august (and people have been wrong many times about it already anyway).

Nambit

07-23-07, 07:48 PM

So when you ask what's the maximum static contrast the eye can see--the answer is, "It depends." Perception is really complex.

http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html

Sorry, I have to butt-in a bit here. Folks keep referring to 'eyes' when referring to
such perceptual references, and are DEAD WRONG!! A great deal of the fallacies of
human perception is not based on the receptive organs, but instead the processor
itself. In other words, THE BRAIN. The contrast effect is hugely caused by the
processing of information (as opposed to the raw data provided).

farscaperkevin

07-23-07, 09:52 PM

according to the computer the 26 is the in stock date for best buy it isnt necessarily the release date from the manufacturers. also it is possible that the date in the computer is just a temporary tentative date. the tvs arent in the official system yet the skus exhist but searching for them doesnt bring up any products. I found the info in a backdoor type area of our system.

ahwig60

07-23-07, 11:57 PM

huh A looks lighter to me

mike123abc

07-24-07, 01:34 AM

To get the dynamic contrast ratio Samsung is probably using the dimmest "on" setting of a cluster with the LCD pixel turned off (just light leakage) vs the brightest "on" setting of a background cluster with the LCD pixel turned all the way on. This prevents the "infinite" contrast ratio.

On CRTs, ever go to sleep in a dark room with the TV on? only to turn it off without opening your eyes, then open your eyes to observe how bright the screen still is? even some time later? The phosphors did not decay infinitely quickly so that the black was truly "off".

borf

07-24-07, 04:59 AM

huh A looks lighter to me

Nope. I cut and pasted them together lol.

westa6969

07-24-07, 06:12 AM

scherer326

07-24-07, 07:55 AM

farscaperkevin, since the prices are already in the BBY system, can you preorder the 81 series yet or does it just list the prices only.

glow11

07-24-07, 09:46 AM

Might be. 100 000:1 number is actually static. I'm not sure about the european 500 000:1 number. Business to business numbers are always real:

http://i10.tinypic.com/6gukfg4.jpg

Business to consumer is another story.

What is it that we're looking at here?

farscaperkevin

07-24-07, 10:41 AM

we just got a magnolia around november 4th 2006. I asked the home theater department and the mag guys about preorders and they both told me that best buy doesn't do pre orders. you have to wait for them to come out and then snag one. Usually as soon as a product comes out ( at least in the computer department, I'm not sure about Home Theater) it will go on sale immediately or the next week. We have a price match guarantee so it doesn't matter if you buy it on sale or not though. they almost always go on sale within a month of being out.

scherer326

07-24-07, 10:57 AM

farscaperkevin, you cant do a special order thru them? I know you can do special orders for tvs with CC because I have done it with them in the past.

conan48

07-24-07, 11:33 AM

Go to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11109057#post11109057 if you enjoy Dnice vs. g081. This whole thread is go81 vs. EVERYONE. I jumped in for a little back as to make the thread not so one sided.

Anyway. Even though go81 is a 81 series propaganda machine. He does know his stuff. Knows quite a bit more then the average AVS forum member. Makes me questions his low post count as he knows too much ;)

enator

07-24-07, 12:40 PM

ahhhhha soon will be time here too :D

bigjohns1997SS

07-24-07, 02:23 PM

Glad this thread wasn't locked, I am dying to know about this 81 series ASAP. I am holding off on the 65 series for this model alone and i do think it's worth the extra money when considering the upgrade is supposed to bust lcd's shortcomings. I know this thread has seen alot of action late but i thought everyone would be dying to get on this tv and ride it off into the sunset.

spincut

07-24-07, 02:37 PM

so go, since you work for samsung, will this new 81 series have a better handle on the reflective screen (or, a better anti-reflective screen) than the 65 was? i had heard rumors that it would be better.

matchmole

07-24-07, 03:01 PM

Thanks for stepping in... that pissing contest was cute for the first hundred years.

match

dvdmonster

07-24-07, 03:20 PM

Can someone please save me alot of looking thru posts and tell me when we can expect the first 81 screens in the hands of the endusers/reviewers? Thanks!

taurus2007

07-24-07, 03:26 PM

Can someone please save me alot of looking thru posts and tell me when we can expect the first 81 screens in the hands of the endusers/reviewers? Thanks!
Endusers, probably in late August.

Reviewers like cnet, who knows. Remember, Cnet didn't come out with reviews for 61F & 65F after people have brought those panels from stores.

Lustror

07-24-07, 04:35 PM

Okay, I officially have an unhealthy amount of anticipation for Samsung's new offerings.

I just read this, and you can guess what came to mind:

Without an inordinate amount of blitzing, Chicago has generated 81 sacks and 71 turnovers the past two seasons.

conan48

07-24-07, 11:00 PM

Went to Futureshop today and they had no info on the 71 or 81 series yet. Any Canadians know who may carry the 81 in Canada?

sgolko

07-24-07, 11:12 PM

Went to Futureshop today and they had no info on the 71 or 81 series yet. Any Canadians know who may carry the 81 in Canada?

I have talked to 2 Futureshops in Calgary who have said they will be carrying the 81 series upon release. I assume 71 as well.

conan48

07-24-07, 11:55 PM

thanks, good to know. While at Future I checked out the 65 series again and.......They look pretty damn good! Better then any LCD I have seen before. That glossy screen sure makes a difference in colour and blacks. Also checked out the Pio 8g and while I was impressed, the black levels are not as dark as the frame. I could still clearly see some glow coming from the set. ( however, it was much better then my Panny 60u) I left the store thinking that if I was really impressed with the 65, then the 81 with the glossy screen, even if it was only a little better would be the TV for me. Knowing that it should be alot better made me very happy. The Pio 8g is no slouch either, but that damn phosphor lag mean no 8g for me :(

We are on the brink of a revolution in consumer display tech, and Im happy that Samsung is bringing it THIS YEAR. I won't wait for Sony to release an overpriced TV with the same tech NEXT YEAR. Oh, and LG has never exactly been at the top of any tech. Good times.

conquerermtm

07-24-07, 11:59 PM

LN-T5781F at Abt Eletronics :

Just go to abteletronics site and search for model code.

Available for pre-ordering... :)

swlee

07-25-07, 12:41 AM

Just looked at the LN-T**71 and LN-T**81 listings on the Abt Electronics site. Near the bottom of the Product Details listing for any of those models, there's a link for a PDF of specifications. All of these details have probably already been discussed here, but it is a nice compact gathering of the details for each model ...

conquerermtm

07-25-07, 01:01 AM

Yes,

I saw the PDF also.....very nice.

Did you notice the $8000 list price for 57" model? :eek:

It was set as 7k at CNET...

007craft

07-25-07, 01:09 AM

I have talked to 2 Futureshops in Calgary who have said they will be carrying the 81 series upon release. I assume 71 as well.

good to know. I got a buddy who works there and is hopefully gonna get this for me on his staff purchase. Makes a big difference cause on new products like this, markup is around $1200. So I should be able to grab the set for around $900 less then what it will sell for at FS. If he cant get me hte SP, Ill try and bargain with a salesman to at least get $600 off.

Knowing us Canadians, this will probably be released in mid-late september, a month after the US. I dont mind really, cause it allows me to read online reviews and peoples opinions before hand. + it should be out just in time for halo 3 :)

xtiger

07-25-07, 03:30 PM

Specs for the 40 inch. Dang, they added 3 inches to the width.

Approximate Dimensions:

With Stand

* Width: 43.7"
* Height: 26.6"
* Depth: 11.4"

Without Stand

* Width: 43.7"
* Height: 23.9"
* Depth: 4.0"

Approximate Weight:

* Unit With Stand: 57.8 lbs
* Shipping: 65 lbs

mark_1080p

07-25-07, 03:36 PM

Yea, the 4061 is 38.2" wide.
This thing is too bloody wide.

Transcend

07-25-07, 04:01 PM

This thing is too bloody wide.

Wide and bulky. You can count me in with those who think the aesthetics is lacking with these new sets. I know PQ is most important, but that doesn't mean visual appeal of the set counts for nothing. It would be different I suppose if Samsung products have always lacked design appeal.

snowstorm81

07-25-07, 04:11 PM

Yea, the 4061 is 38.2" wide.
This thing is too bloody wide.

Well, maybe thats fact worth considering having 2 integrated subwoofers?
But I hardly belive that will make any incrediable performance sound -
why is there no no output power specs having 2 additional speakers?

Snatched from European F86 specs (i.e. 71-series)
· RMS 2x10 Watt
· 2.2 Channel Sound (2 Sub Woofer)
· A2/NiCAM Stereo
· SRS Surround XT

The 65 series or M86 series is carrying the same specs, thoug lacking of sub-woofers.

By the way, Samsung Europe seems completley out of their mind if our initial anticipations pointing at only releasing
40" and 46" of F86 (71 series)
52" and 70" of F96 (81 series)

SharpOne

07-25-07, 04:35 PM

Okay, I officially have an unhealthy amount of anticipation for Samsung's new offerings.

I just read this, and you can guess what came to mind:

I feel your pain Lustror. I just figured I'd throw you a little fellow Chicagoland support...Da Bears!!! :D

Bye the way, if you live anywhere within 30 miles of the ABT store, it might be worth a trip when they get some of these newer TV's in. I believe they have the Toshiba 46LX177 and 52HL167 in stock now.

I swear in my life I have never seen a larger electronics/appliance store. Pretty fancy too...there's even a damn fountain in the middle of the store.

CruelInventions

07-25-07, 04:38 PM

Wide and bulky. You can count me in with those who think the aesthetics is lacking with these new sets. I know PQ is most important, but that doesn't mean visual appeal of the set counts for nothing. It would be different I suppose if Samsung products have always lacked design appeal.

They should offer a monitor-only version of this thing. no tuner, no speakers, no frilly extras.. just a straight to the point, unadulterated screen surrounded by a small frame. Tidy, neat and placement versatile. Not everyone needs all those extras. I've got my own speakers, I've got my own tuners and I've got my own wall from which I can hang the bloody thing. :D

Lustror

07-25-07, 09:15 PM

I feel your pain Lustror. I just figured I'd throw you a little fellow Chicagoland support...Da Bears!!! :D

Bye the way, if you live anywhere within 30 miles of the ABT store, it might be worth a trip when they get some of these newer TV's in. I believe they have the Toshiba 46LX177 and 52HL167 in stock now.

I swear in my life I have never seen a larger electronics/appliance store. Pretty fancy too...there's even a damn fountain in the middle of the store.

I actually used to live in walking distance from Abt (the new store, not the old one in Morton Grove), and you're right, it is very impressive. It's no wonder they have pictures on the wall of all the celebrities who have made purchases there.

I went with my friend there when he bought his 60" SXRD a couple of years ago, and the salesman was great, and they were willing to wheel and deal (something I am horrible at, by the way). Good service too.

You can be sure that when the 71s and 81s arrive, I will make a trip there to see them in person.

conquerermtm

07-25-07, 09:37 PM

I think Samsung didn't talk about release date...

It would be good to know if these TVs will really arrive next month... :rolleyes:

glow11

07-25-07, 09:37 PM

They should offer a monitor-only version of this thing. no tuner, no speakers, no frilly extras.. just a straight to the point, unadulterated screen surrounded by a small frame. Tidy, neat and placement versatile. Not everyone needs all those extras. I've got my own speakers, I've got my own tuners and I've got my own wall from which I can hang the bloody thing. :D

Fully agree...I would think that a fraction of people in the market for a TV like this wouldn't own dedicated receivers, amps, speakers and tuners. I think the stand should be available at the dealership, but optional.

IBNobody

07-25-07, 09:52 PM

I checked out the Abt site, and I was a little confused...

Weren't the 71's and the 81's supposed to have less than a 4ms response time in addition to the new 120Hz refresh rate? That site (and Samsung's Data Sheet) lists them as 8ms.

I'm kinda excited, though. It looks like the 46" 81 will be priced similar to that of the 52" 65. I'd take a smaller screen size if the LED backlight tech pans out to be a winner.

glow11

07-25-07, 09:54 PM

I think Samsung didn't talk about release date...

It would be good to know if these TVs will really arrive next month... :rolleyes:

All the press I've seen has said August, and I would hope that they got that from Samsung, but it sure would be more comforting with a hard release date ON Samsung's site.

Perhaps Samsung feels official announcements would torpedo sales of their current models, but I feel the really dedicated consumers (us) will pick up on limited press releases (like we have) and wait for the 71/81s. Those people that buy their sets on impulse certainly won't surf Sammy's site for stats on upcoming models. They buy on the floor of the dealership when they see something they like. If the announcment was official, I dont think they would postpone any more buyers than they have with the "unofficial" announcements.

Supply is another issue. Perhaps they will be released in such small numbers they dont want to piss off the dealerships with angry hordes.

I would pre-order it today, but God forbid a dealbreaking flaw in the technology emerges. A 25% restocking fee on these sets would really, really, really hurt. I guess I'll wait to see one.

ebduda

07-25-07, 10:43 PM

Is this series going to have the glossey finish? I am going to be putting this is a bright room and glare is an issue

conquerermtm

07-25-07, 11:12 PM

I wouldn't pre-order it also.

It's a new technology (LED) and we have to wait for the reviews and see the TVs for ourselves.

Better safe than sorry... ;)

glow11

07-25-07, 11:29 PM

Is this series going to have the glossey finish? I am going to be putting this is a bright room and glare is an issue

Yup, glossy.

xb1032

07-25-07, 11:44 PM

Yes,

I saw the PDF also.....very nice.

Did you notice the $8000 list price for 57" model? :eek:

It was set as 7k at CNET...

A few press releases (not from Samsung) said $6999 for the 57 inch and another said $7999. We'll see soon enough which one is right. Hopefully $6999. Even still for me, it has to hit a store that will deal. It's not uncommon to get 20-30% off Sammy's since there is typically a high markup on them.

glow11

07-26-07, 12:00 AM

A few press releases (not from Samsung) said $6999 for the 57 inch and another said $7999. We'll see soon enough which one is right. Hopefully $6999. Even still for me, it has to hit a store that will deal. It's not uncommon to get 20-30% off Sammy's since there is typically a high markup on them.

What if the supplies are very restricted? I haven't bought (or thought about) a TV in 7 years. Do retailers ever pull a "Prius" and adjust prices upward of the MSRP or does that not apply in the TV world?

conan48

07-26-07, 12:11 AM

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Glossy. :D I really do love the glossy screens.

tonydeluce

07-26-07, 12:35 AM

A few press releases (not from Samsung) said $6999 for the 57 inch and another said $7999. We'll see soon enough which one is right. Hopefully $6999. Even still for me, it has to hit a store that will deal. It's not uncommon to get 20-30% off Sammy's since there is typically a high markup on them.

You mean this bad boy could be had shortly for $5K and some change?

Sign me up...

spincut

07-26-07, 01:47 AM

Yup, glossy.

i had heard though that they were going to do something to make it less glossy than the 65's and whatnot, since some reviews i read pegged it as more reflective than CRT's and many plasmas.

I heard the 81 (and 71) would be more of a middle ground between plasma and matte.....then again that was a while ago and i hadnt heard much mentioned of it since.

Also, what press releases have said august? Didnt press releases also say may near the beggining of this thread?

I'm not so sure that they are going to be coming in august.

smaybee

07-26-07, 02:17 AM

Also, what press releases have said august? Didnt press releases also say may near the beggining of this thread?

I'm not so sure that they are going to be coming in august.

So far, I believe that there has not been an "Official" press release from Samsung mentioning the actual release date, the very first post in this thread mentions July, which is what Samsung was saying at CES. August is not that much of a slip from July. Previously in this thread, people who work at chain stores report that their systems are showing August availability and the loose cannon that was go81 was claiming next month (if you think he was at all reliable). So it seems somewhat possible. There was earlier speculation that perhaps Samsung would *announce* the 81 series as early as May (which did not turn out to happen).

hyslopc

07-26-07, 11:09 AM

Is there any word on when we will see the European equivalents to the 81 series? Someone suggested they will be called M96 - is this confirmed info, or just a guess?

2006GTO

07-26-07, 11:23 AM

From what I heard the BB geeks go to some info class this Thurs. for Samsung products..
He was saying it had to do with the 71/81 Series...

Samsung told me Aug/Sept for these new units
I have a 4665F and its beautiful,I cant imagine anything getting better?

snowstorm81

07-26-07, 11:26 AM

Is there any word on when we will see the European equivalents to the 81 series? Someone suggested they will be called M96 - is this confirmed info, or just a guess?

71-series is called F86
81-series is called F96

Visit our Swedish thread here:
http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161881

After IFA we know more about these sets, though they seem hitting the UK market in a month already according to this thread
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590827

Transcend

07-26-07, 11:26 AM

I have a 4665F and its beautiful,I cant imagine anything getting better?

As a previous owner of a 4665F, I can.

2006GTO

07-26-07, 12:08 PM

Mine was a P6 and has the newest boards
If your implying the 4665F is bad then u didnt get a P6 because its perfect.

glow11

07-26-07, 12:35 PM

Mine was a P6 and has the newest boards
If your implying the 4665F is bad then u didnt get a P6 because its perfect.

CNET seems to agree (but they didnt like the shiny screen)

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-and-plasma/samsung-ln-t4665f/4505-6482_7-32306311.html

2006GTO

07-26-07, 01:02 PM

Actually they like the screen and thats why they picked the 65 over the 61

KingNYC

07-26-07, 01:03 PM

This just posted on electric house
Says August Release for 81 Series. I will put url after 4 more posts. Sorry about that.

KingNYC

07-26-07, 01:04 PM

KingNYC

07-26-07, 01:04 PM

KingNYC

07-26-07, 01:04 PM

KingNYC

07-26-07, 01:04 PM

KingNYC

07-26-07, 01:04 PM

6
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/led_backlighting_boosts_samsung_81_series_lcd_hdtvs/C157

ns66

07-26-07, 01:28 PM

Hi, i am new to this, i have a question, i am interested in 4681, i need to connect my computer to it, DVI to HMDI, looking at a dvi-hdmi cable at bestdealcables,
it's rated "Conductor Size and Type: 24AWG, Silver Plated, OFC Copper, Resolution Abilities: Rated up to 1080p@60hz"...

I mean my graphic card (nvidia 7600gt) can do 120hz and 81 series can do 120hz, do i need a better cable that can do 1080p 120hz to utilize it? does it even exists?

thanks

Zappes

07-26-07, 01:34 PM

No and you don't need it. The signal you feed to the display is still 60Hz, the 120Hz frame rate is something the display does internally.

ns66

07-26-07, 02:05 PM

LaserEdge

07-26-07, 02:32 PM

another concern that i have is the price, currently 4661F is only $2038, the 4681F is twice the price (not to mention the wait), so far my understanding is 81 has better black and maybe less motion lag, is it really worth extra $2000? :eek:

Can't answer the question for you. Only advise I can offer is if you feel you can't wait a month or two for the intial impressions and reviews then go buy the 4661F now. Any other answer will just be feuling further speculation at this point.

rbarg

07-26-07, 02:34 PM

6
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/led_backlighting_boosts_samsung_81_series_lcd_hdtvs/C157

There is absolutely nothing new in this article and no new information on Samsung's site. Why is ABT the only vendor w/preorder info online?

Transcend

07-26-07, 03:06 PM

If your implying the 4665F is bad then u didnt get a P6 because its perfect.
No, I wasn't implying it is bad; you said you couldn't imagine anything better, and I said I could. The set simply had a few quirks that could have been improved upon, other than the faulty board issues. That's not the same as saying it is bad.

2006GTO

07-26-07, 04:15 PM

U say potatoe and I say moe larry the cheese ;)
Fair enough...

glow11

07-26-07, 07:17 PM

There is absolutely nothing new in this article and no new information on Samsung's site. Why is ABT the only vendor w/preorder info online?

I wonder if they just cobbled together the available information and threw the listing up to capture bleeding edge 81 fanatics. They may have no more information than any other vendor, just a brassier pair.

glow11

07-26-07, 07:20 PM

Actually they like the screen and thats why they picked the 65 over the 61

Actually they said:

The bad: Shiny screen collects excessive ambient light; edges slightly brighter than the middle in dark areas.

I like the shiny screen myself, they apparently didn't understand the advantage of the screen; they praised all the things the screen did for the picture and then bagged on the screen itself...oh well.

conquerermtm

07-26-07, 09:04 PM

CNET was really incoherent...no doubt about that.

HD-Gaming

07-26-07, 09:55 PM

is there a built in cable tuner in these models like that of the Sony XBR4/5 series?

xb1032

07-26-07, 10:37 PM

What if the supplies are very restricted? I haven't bought (or thought about) a TV in 7 years. Do retailers ever pull a "Prius" and adjust prices upward of the MSRP or does that not apply in the TV world?

I've heard people say they have but I personally haven't run across it. I sure hope not.

xb1032

07-26-07, 10:40 PM

You mean this bad boy could be had shortly for $5K and some change?

Sign me up...

I doubt it. If it hit stores like HH Gregg I bet 20% off would be a cinch. I know in the past getting 20-25% off on Samsunds DLPs and such hasn't been very difficult. I bet only stores like Magnolia will have it at first. If I can't get at least 20% off I'll either get the Pioneer plasma or waitfor the price to drop. I can't justify spending near $7k on a TV that I know I'm going to want to replace as soon as they come out with a 65" or 70" set.

borf

07-27-07, 08:09 AM

no motion blur with LED strobing...

From what i know, at the expense of flicker/judder. Without raising the temporal rate (like 120hz lcds do by interpolation) you substitute one artifact for another.

Not accurate but when one artifact goes down the other goes up.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3619/untitledqt4.jpg

CRT tv at the origin, LCD at right (SAH) and plasma/DLP/scanning LCD refresh somewhere in the middle.

glow11

07-27-07, 09:06 AM

snowstorm81

07-27-07, 12:18 PM

It's been debated extensively weather or not the 81 is 120hz.
The ABT listing is the only one that clearly states 120hz.
I would assume they are correct, but if not, it would be grounds for returning the thing if it turned out not to be true, and a person didn't like TV.

Europeean 81-series ~ F96 series specs to 120 Hz as well (i.e. 100 Hz)
A strange thing is though the contrast, 5 times bigger than 81-series
It seems to equal the Koreean F91 series only avaiable in 70" though
F96 seems onlly to be 52" and 70" - very strange Samsung Europe?

Also it says audio output is 2x15W, which may confirm additional sub woofer effect

source
http://www.zettavolt.co.uk/HDTV/LE52F96BD.html
http://www.zettavolt.co.uk/HDTV/LE70F96BD.html

Raitzi

07-27-07, 12:51 PM

F96 seems onlly to be 52" and 70" - very strange Samsung Europe?
http://www.zettavolt.co.uk/HDTV/LE52F96BD.html
http://www.zettavolt.co.uk/HDTV/LE70F96BD.html

That can't be the case. In Europe we are far behind in HD material and that means we are likely buy smaller tv to enjoy also SD-content. And most of people here think 42" is too big. Im intested to buy f96 when it comes in sizes 42-46".
Official annoucement of f96 lineup will be made in IFA 2007.

Shinraven

07-27-07, 01:05 PM

considering that the LN-T5265F is now near 3k street price, what's the odd of the new 81 series hitting the 3.5k ...say do you think by Feb 08 we can get to this price point.

As much as I am drooling over the specs listed on the 81 series, I know samsung will have stiff competition from LG and the rest. I for one will play the waiting game till this winter when i will pull the trigger on whichever set is best.

for now based on what we heard, the sammy has my vote.

I thank you guys for bringing up so much info.

Human Bass

07-27-07, 01:14 PM

The price seems quite good for such a kickin ars product.

2006GTO

07-27-07, 04:00 PM

I've seen the 52 for under 2800 at frys....

scherer326

07-27-07, 04:09 PM

called bby, you cant pre-order or special order a 71 or 81 series until they have a display on hand. The guy said maybe aug/sept release, was pretty much clueless.

spincut

07-27-07, 06:05 PM

From what i know, at the expense of flicker/judder. Without raising the temporal rate (like 120hz lcds do by interpolation) you substitute one artifact for another.

Not accurate but when one artifact goes down the other goes up.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8062/untitledbr7.jpg

CRT tv at the origin, LCD at right (SAH) and plasma/DLP/scanning LCD refresh somewhere in the middle.

so that would make the LCD somewhere at the equilibrium point....so wouldnt that be a good thing?

sentinelo

07-27-07, 06:14 PM

Is it possible for LED backlit sets to have clouding?

Nucknfutz6

07-27-07, 07:31 PM

Magnolia (standalone store) in Santa Monica is taking preorders for full purchase price deposit. First one in CA to order it...guess noone cares to get one unless they've seen the reviews?

AceBates

07-27-07, 07:32 PM

Is it possible for LED backlit sets to have clouding?

In theory yes, if they don't turn the LEDs all the way off and leave them on some lower, but still very visible, setting. But given the premise of the set and the way things are lit, IMO the chances of clouding are minimal. You're more likely to see brightness bleeding on high contrast pictures, but again, given the nature of the LEDs and the set, it should again be minimal. Though it's all intelligent speculation at this point as very few people have really test driven the set in person.

Shinraven

07-27-07, 07:32 PM

LED backlit displays can have uneven back light.

I found a quote from an article i read a while back

"
One can also vary the LED backlight brightness is by simply varying the DC current to the LED's, but at low current the individual LED emitters start to become visible resulting in an uneven looking back light. The third use of the PWM ( Pulse Width Modulation. method is to facilitate a wide range of brightness control for the LED backlight, without an uneven looking back light. By varying the on/off ratio of the controlling PWM waveform, a very wide range of brightness can be achieved while maintaining a very even appearing back light. "

samsung will offer local diming to take care of that problem ie fully shut off areas that are not in used, in theory ( since we havnt seen the sets) should be pitch black.

vtms

07-28-07, 12:53 AM

I wonder how many shades of gray 81 Series can display.

pikoo

07-28-07, 01:04 AM

Thought you might be interested:

Two HDTV Technologies Worth Waiting For (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135144-pg,1/article.html)

DSET

07-28-07, 02:20 AM

so what do you guys assume about when these will hit shelves?

The 65series came out when promised so I'm assuming these will too

but Ive heard numerous rumors these will get delayed till October

sharpjunkie

07-28-07, 03:11 AM

Thought you might be interested:

Two HDTV Technologies Worth Waiting For (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135144-pg,1/article.html)
Ughh sorry but what is the difference between 81 and 71, is it just contrast ratio? seems both are led, 120hz, super clear panel,

bronxkid

07-28-07, 03:39 AM

I enjoy watching a lot of sports so I think the 120hz will be good reason to wait to buy this set, but I'm not sure if the LED backlighting is going to sway me to pay the extra premium. I guess we'll have to wait to compare the 71 and 81 series to know. If the 65 series managed to produce great colors, I hope I'll be satisfied with the 71 series. I'll be broke just paying for that set :)

borf

07-28-07, 06:20 AM

so that would make the LCD somewhere at the equilibrium point....so wouldnt that be a good thing?

You still substitute one problem for another, while keeping the same amount of total artifacts. It can be fixed by raising the temporal framerate. Going from 60 to 120 theoretically reduces artifacts by half. They would not be percieved except maybe for some blur I hear.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1369/untitled2vo5.jpg

CRT tv at the origin, LCD at right (SAH) and plasma/DLP/scanning LCD refresh somewhere in the middle.

oldcband

07-28-07, 06:21 AM

Thought you might be interested:

Two HDTV Technologies Worth Waiting For (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135144-pg,1/article.html)
The 71 series inserts a black frame that degrades the overall brightness? This doesn't sound good. The advantage LCD has over plasma is the overall brightness, and until I see the 71 series this isn't what I want to hear.

Appears to me that 120Hz is a good thing but I don't believe its going to change the world like the article believes. Now led backlighting is a different story and will just have to see how it changes and impacts the industry.

pclausen

07-28-07, 07:19 AM

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but does the 81 support 5:5 pulldown so that 1080p24 sources (HD-DVD and BD) can be displayed at an even multiple of 5?

If not, what the heck were they thinking. 5:5 pulldown and 120Hz refresh seems like the killer app to me for 1080p24 sources...

borf

07-28-07, 07:37 AM

Thought you might be interested:

Two HDTV Technologies Worth Waiting For (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135144-pg,1/article.html)

according to them the 81 series is not 120hz. 71 series is though.

liquidaim

07-28-07, 08:44 AM

From the article :
"Samsung's technology looks for any movement, then it creates an average of those movements to insert a frame in between them. OtherHDTV makers insert a black frame in between frames, an approach Samsung claims fixes the motion-blur issue, but degrade the panel's brightness."

liquidaim

07-28-07, 08:45 AM

Please see post #11 on this page to understand the shortcomings of using 5:5 on an LCD display:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=205212

glow11

07-28-07, 08:46 AM

Ughh sorry but what is the difference between 81 and 71, is it just contrast ratio? seems both are led, 120hz, super clear panel,

The 71 series is using CCFL backlighting.

glow11

07-28-07, 08:50 AM

The 71 series inserts a black frame that degrades the overall brightness? This doesn't sound good. The advantage LCD has over plasma is the overall brightness, and until I see the 71 series this isn't what I want to hear.

Nope, what they said was:

"Samsung's technology looks for any movement, then it creates an average of those movements to insert a frame in between them. Other HDTV makers insert a black frame in between frames, an approach Samsung claims fixes the motion-blur issue, but degrade the panel's brightness."

71 series creates interpolated "tween" frames.

glow11

07-28-07, 08:55 AM

according to them the 81 series is not 120hz. 71 series is though.

I've seen various sources claim the 81 is also 120hz, although most dont. The ABT Electronics pre-order page specifications states that it is, and if it isn't they are falsely advertising.

oldcband

07-28-07, 09:33 AM

Nope, what they said was:

"Samsung's technology looks for any movement, then it creates an average of those movements to insert a frame in between them. Other HDTV makers insert a black frame in between frames, an approach Samsung claims fixes the motion-blur issue, but degrade the panel's brightness."

71 series creates interpolated "tween" frames.
I stand corrected thank you. LCD white levels is its greatest strength. Losing brightness would be something that would degrade the technology.

IBNobody

07-28-07, 01:13 PM

I've seen various sources claim the 81 is also 120hz, although most dont. The ABT Electronics pre-order page specifications states that it is, and if it isn't they are falsely advertising.

The ABT PDF datasheet available looked very similar to datasheets for other sets found on Samsung's website. It appears to have been pulled out of Samsung's "dealer book".

mark_1080p

07-28-07, 01:42 PM

"Samsung's technology looks for any movement, then it creates an average of those movements to insert a frame in between them. Other HDTV makers insert a black frame in between frames, an approach Samsung claims fixes the motion-blur issue, but degrade the panel's brightness."These panels are so bright that BFI induced intensity loss should easily be compensated for, but what you do lose with CCFL (not with LED) is efficiency.

spincut

07-28-07, 04:56 PM

You still substitute one problem for another, while keeping the same amount of total artifacts. It can be fixed by raising the temporal framerate. Going from 60 to 120 theoretically reduces artifacts by half. They would not be percieved except maybe for some blur I hear.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1907/untitled2xa6.jpg

CRT tv at the origin, LCD at right (SAH) and plasma/DLP/scanning LCD refresh somewhere in the middle.

i really dont understand what you mean now

lipcrkr

07-28-07, 05:57 PM

Nope, what they said was:

"Samsung's technology looks for any movement, then it creates an average of those movements to insert a frame in between them. Other HDTV makers insert a black frame in between frames, an approach Samsung claims fixes the motion-blur issue, but degrade the panel's brightness."

71 series creates interpolated "tween" frames.

The Toshiba LX177 doesn't lose brightness in their "Clearframe" technology.

btstarke

07-28-07, 07:17 PM

I've seen various sources claim the 81 is also 120hz, although most dont. The ABT Electronics pre-order page specifications states that it is, and if it isn't they are falsely advertising.
actually to be falsely advertising they would have to be intentionally putting up misinformation. Since we can't even get a clear answer here I seriously doubt they are intentionally giving out wrong information.

Ok back to topic, it just gets on my nerves when people jump on the false advertising band wagon so quickly.

glow11

07-28-07, 07:38 PM

actually to be falsely advertising they would have to be intentionally putting up misinformation. Since we can't even get a clear answer here I seriously doubt they are intentionally giving out wrong information.

Ok back to topic, it just gets on my nerves when people jump on the false advertising band wagon so quickly.

Ethically speaking, false advertising is achieved by selling a product and promoting it with untruths.

Legally speaking the advertiser MAY have to be KNOWINGLY deceptive.

I would assume the legal definition of false advertising varies on a state by state basis since consumer affairs laws are handled on a state level, not a federal level (unless mail fraud or other federal laws are impinged upon)

However, if ABT Electronics is simply stating 120hz because thats what Samsung told them, and the set is not 120hz, then Samsung knowingly misled the consumer. If ABT Electronics stated 120hz, and the TV is not then ABT either stated it knowingly, or just didn't bother to find out the facts. Either one is ethically false advertising, but if the law makes companies exempt from false advertising claims because they are stupid, well, welcome to America. (By the way, I'm selling my car, I dont really know the gas mileage, so I'll say it gets 100mpg, since I'm not really sure what it is, if I say 100mpg, I guess I'm ignorant, and therefore protected)

If it gets on your nerves that the public should be protected from deceptive OR stupid advertisers, I would assume that you are, in some capacity, an advertiser.

TonPalmans

07-28-07, 08:08 PM

Ethically ... blah blah blah... protected) Well, most of the time you will find that wrong information is just the result of little mistakes people - you and me included - make from time to time. Intent and rampant stupidity are really the exception to the rule. Mistakes should be identified and corrected as quickly as possibly off course, but immediately assuming the worst of possible causes is just groundless aggravation.

If it gets on your nerves that the public should be protected from deceptive OR stupid advertisers, I would assume that you are, in some capacity, an advertiser.This really seems needlessly hostile....

tombaker

07-28-07, 08:30 PM

Ethically speaking, false advertising...
snipped
......If it gets on your nerves that the public should be protected from deceptive OR stupid advertisers, I would assume that you are, in some capacity, an advertiser.

Translation of this long posting....." ummmmmmmm...I am going to tell my mommy on you....really I am!"

if you are buying a TV without looking at one, or talking to someone who has extensively looked at one....you R a mo-r-on

yanks1927

07-28-07, 09:13 PM

Lustror

07-28-07, 10:10 PM

a lot of people on this thread are getting hung up on numbers and graphs and rumors, but what it is going to come down to is how it performs in real life. the real question is with the 61/65 series costing about $1500 now for a 40 inch (just for comparison), is paying an additional $1000 (assuming discount on new models, and the bigger sizes will be a higher price difference) for a higher contrast ratio and 120hz really worth it? I think I'd rather buy a 40 inch for the living room, a 32 inch for the bedroom, and a subscription to netflix with that extra $1000. that's just me though, im sure there are a lot of people out there who have great reasons for waiting and for them it's important to have these features. i think im gonna wait it out a few months and see what sorts of issues these things have and what the reviews say. maybe we'll get surprised this time around, though, and these sets won't haves issues like the previous generations. at least we can count on the prices dropping fairly rapidly again.

I'm glad you brought this up, because it touches on a couple of things I've been wondering. I haven't bought a TV since 2001 (a 36" Wega CRT behemoth), and back then my research paled in comparison to what I'm putting in for my next set (either a 65 or an 81). I am essentially a TV-buying neophyte.

You mentioned a discount on new models ... is it usually the case that new models have a discount?

And assuming that is the case, would that be the case with an 81, which according to the article(s) published so far, will have limited supply?

I know no one knows any of this for certain, I am just asking for speculation based on past experience with the retail TV market.

I've been waiting for further price drops on the 5265f, only to see it go up by hundreds in the last few weeks, so I have no idea which way is up anymore.

glow11

07-28-07, 10:10 PM

Translation of this long posting....." ummmmmmmm...I am going to tell my mommy on you....really I am!"

if you are buying a TV without looking at one, or talking to someone who has extensively looked at one....you R a mo-r-on

Hey, lookie over there! There's the point, and you completely MISSED IT!
Here it is AGAIN!
If I buy the TV, SIGHT UNSEEN, because the advertiser says it is 120hz, and it is 60 or 100hz, I WILL RETURN IT, and that retailer WILL TAKE IT BACk, because HE HAD WRONG INFORMATION.
THanks for playing!

glow11

07-28-07, 10:12 PM

Well, most of the time you will find that wrong information is just the result of little mistakes people - you and me included - make from time to time. Intent and rampant stupidity are really the exception to the rule. Mistakes should be identified and corrected as quickly as possibly off course, but immediately assuming the worst of possible causes is just groundless aggravation.

This really seems needlessly hostile....

How is it needlessly hostile to assume someone that thinks consumers should be expected to accept false information and get on with their lives might be in advertising?

Woodrow

07-28-07, 10:19 PM

Please get back on topic folks

Thank you!

Raitzi

07-28-07, 11:35 PM

This might be posted here already but here it goes anyway.

New TVs for europe(IFA 2007 Preview by PRAD) (http://www.prad.de/en/tv/specials/ifa-preview-2007.html)

It states that F8-series(71) will be display 24Hz content with frequency of 48Hz (frame interpolation). Though no info how F9-series(81) handles it but i don't think it is any worse. Styling of new models is also better than last ones.
http://www.prad.de/images/tv/ifa-preview-06.jpg
Samsung LE-40F86BD

PS: I still have to wait for the end of next month for more info.(and september to sets actually arrive) By the way now all sammy M87(65-series) tvs work here in 24 Hz mode with ps3.(thanks sony)

tonydeluce

07-28-07, 11:39 PM

I will be making a decision between the Samsung 57 inch 81 series and the 60 inch Pio Elite 1080p KURO. Repeating each 1080p24fps frame exactly three or five times is an important part of the decision. I know the Pio will be able to do it at 72Hz and I really hope the Sammy/'s can too ( especially if they really deliver 100,000:1 CR...

borf

07-29-07, 01:06 AM

i really dont understand what you mean now

this helps (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/naturalmotion/images/RES_dossier_nat_motion_02-1377.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/naturalmotion/judder-free.html&h=510&w=363&sz=39&hl=en&start=0&sig2=az2e5EiYKXAarWOhA-VfPQ&tbnid=oqjHwONCnhYbPM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=93&ei=Ux2sRr-HNoLYiwHEob3LDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djudder,flicker%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN)

Basically, without framerate interpolation (raising the temporal rate) motion will never be better than what's on current displays (crt,lcd ect). That's ok for most ppl.

:)

spincut

07-29-07, 01:54 AM

this helps (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/naturalmotion/images/RES_dossier_nat_motion_02-1377.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/naturalmotion/judder-free.html&h=510&w=363&sz=39&hl=en&start=0&sig2=az2e5EiYKXAarWOhA-VfPQ&tbnid=oqjHwONCnhYbPM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=93&ei=Ux2sRr-HNoLYiwHEob3LDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djudder,flicker%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN)

Basically, without framerate interpolation (raising the temporal rate) motion will never be better than what's on current displays (crt,lcd ect). That's ok for most ppl.

:)

....ok so 120khz tech will help the motion look better.... i got the just of that already.

tombaker

07-29-07, 02:17 AM

Hey, lookie over there! There's the point, and you completely MISSED IT!
Here it is AGAIN!
If I buy the TV, SIGHT UNSEEN, because the advertiser says it is 120hz, and it is 60 or 100hz, I WILL RETURN IT, and that retailer WILL TAKE IT BACk, because HE HAD WRONG INFORMATION.
THanks for playing!
Sure if that is there return policy....but if that's not their return policy...and you did not read the standard boilerplate of "Specifications may change without notice" you become wrong....pathetically wrong

In your case study of a fool buying a TV without seeing based upon only specifications....the resulting answers are pretty much a waste of time...but I am sure if you have the cash you can spend your time paying a lawyer to tell you...you are right....only to conclude differently once their billable hours are all used up.

Glow11 if you want to be a fool thats fine....but as a fool's advocate need more work

Tempest25

07-29-07, 03:52 AM

Beating a dead horse...

Take a hint. The mods already said let it go.

HD-Gaming

07-29-07, 04:09 PM

can some PLEASE answer if this TV comes with a built in TV tuner like the Sony XBR series

tower101

07-29-07, 05:15 PM

can some PLEASE answer if this TV comes with a built in TV tuner like the Sony XBR series

Real specs are not releases but it should have up to and include a quam tuner. This is a save bet since the current 61/65 tvs have them.

pakotlar

07-29-07, 05:21 PM

I stand corrected thank you. LCD white levels is its greatest strength. Losing brightness would be something that would degrade the technology.

Though in a way your right, something like a scanning backlight ( which also degrades brightness) with something like a 75% duty cycle won't degrade the brightness level to something less than what most us already see using custom settings for our sets. Who leaves their LCD @ 100% brightness/backlight? I think most keep it at ~ 0, with -10 to 10 being the range, and something like -50 representing "off" for comparison. I'd say a 25% reduction in brightness, even IF they didn't compensate for it by using a brighter backlight (in this case LED's are supposedly brighter than their ccfl counterparts), we would still come out with an LCD that had comparable brightness levels at normal settings.

Motion interpolation (frame interpolation) does allow the LCD to reduce motion artifacts while retaining brightness, but at the cost of accuracy and latency. The latter is the reason this mode is disabled in "game mode" on the new LX series and most likely the 71.

leemell

07-29-07, 05:26 PM

can some PLEASE answer if this TV comes with a built in TV tuner like the Sony XBR series

The FCC has required digital tuners since last July on all TVs bigger than, I believe 32". Yes.

spincut

07-29-07, 07:07 PM

Though in a way your right, something like a scanning backlight ( which also degrades brightness) with something like a 75% duty cycle won't degrade the brightness level to something less than what most us already see using custom settings for our sets. Who leaves their LCD @ 100% brightness/backlight? I think most keep it at ~ 0, with -10 to 10 being the range, and something like -50 representing "off" for comparison. I'd say a 25% reduction in brightness, even IF they didn't compensate for it by using a brighter backlight (in this case LED's are supposedly brighter than their ccfl counterparts), we would still come out with an LCD that had comparable brightness levels at normal settings.

Motion interpolation (frame interpolation) does allow the LCD to reduce motion artifacts while retaining brightness, but at the cost of accuracy and latency. The latter is the reason this mode is disabled in "game mode" on the new LX series and most likely the 71.

wait, they're BRIGHTER? So the issue with it being really tough to watch an LCD in the dark as opposed t oa CRT with similar looking brightness will be even worse with the samsung? (when i set my urrent TV to the light censor on it turns the backlight all the way off when you turn off the lights, and it definetly looks dimmer than a CRT, which someone i suppose finds a way to be more viewable in the dark with its brightness up.

glow11

07-29-07, 11:15 PM

Was anyone paying attention to Samsung's site around the time of the previous model's release? Wondering when they update their site relative to when the TV's go to retailers.

wtfer

07-30-07, 04:00 AM

Was anyone paying attention to Samsung's site around the time of the previous model's release? Wondering when they update their site relative to when the TV's go to retailers.

Their TV product page is a piece of crap, they had a glaring typo for one of their LCD's & they kept it for months.

johnnybrulez

07-30-07, 04:57 AM

Any.. er news on when we can expect to check these out?

Alex the Great

07-30-07, 09:20 AM

Sales manager in my local BB store has told me that vendor’s fair is going to take place at the end of this week. So by next week we may expect to hear some information about new models availability.

ahwig60

07-30-07, 09:56 AM

what state your bb in?

Alex the Great

07-30-07, 10:10 AM

what state your bb in?
Canada, Ontario

Admiral Ackbar

07-30-07, 01:31 PM

Canada, Ontario

Thats not a state! :D

KingNYC

07-30-07, 01:35 PM

Yahoo's 2 cents on the subject...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20070727/tc_pcworld/135144;_ylt=A9G_R3SIEapGZSgALRMjtBAF

Alex the Great

07-30-07, 01:41 PM

Thats not a state! :D

Yap, province ...

sgolko

07-30-07, 01:57 PM

skyehill

07-30-07, 02:31 PM

Yahoo's 2 cents on the subject...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20070727/tc_pcworld/135144;_ylt=A9G_R3SIEapGZSgALRMjtBAF

Hmm based on that, I want the 71 and not the 81.

mhemu

07-30-07, 02:36 PM

IBNobody

07-30-07, 02:58 PM

Hmm based on that, I want the 71 and not the 81.

The 81 has all the plusses of the 71 (120Hz) and adds the LED backlight.

pakotlar

07-30-07, 03:56 PM

Can anyone shed some light on the differences and similarities between the 81 series and Sony's Triluminous LED backlit XBR3?

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1003751&navigationPath=n32050n100188

How does Sony's try at LED backlight measure up?

Steve

LED BLUs can be very power efficient, so in other words luminence/watt is in some cases significantly better than competing ccfl's.

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2006/02/21/37735/reducing+laptop+battery+drain+with+led+backlights.htm

I assume that Samsung will not release a panel that is inferior in brightness to previous models, at least as is perceptible to the naked eye. One of the largest attention grabbers for LCD displays is their comparitive brightness, and I expect Samsung to do everything they can to continue capitalizing on this. So I am expecting a display with very similar brightness levels even with the benefits of the scanning backlight.

I've seen the Sharp D92 with scanning backlight (or is it BFI?) on, and the drop in brightness was minimal at worst (it still looked very comparable to other displays in brightness level...all were in torch of course). I would imagine that the 2nd generation 120hz/scanning backlight displays will only improve.

Of course, Samsung could screw up :D

Hope that helps.

thorpemark

07-30-07, 05:36 PM

Their TV product page is a piece of crap, they had a glaring typo for one of their LCD's & they kept it for months.

Yes.. I had the "opportunity" to fill in a questionnaire about the Samsung website last time I visted.

I ripped them a new one... but in a very constructive way. You can see someone put some effort into that web site.. but it is just hopeless trying to find real information.

I ended by giving them a list of questions and asked whoever was reading my feedback to dare to try to find the answers.

Anyone reading this thread and other Samsung TV threads can guess what the questions were.

okiedigger

07-30-07, 09:00 PM

The 81 has all the plusses of the 71 (120Hz) and adds the LED backlight.

That's not how I read the article. It sounded like to me the 81 series would still be 60 Hz. Hopefully I read it wrong as I'd like to get the 81 series to watch BD's. Although it looks like the wife wants the 71 for gaming...

wayniac

07-30-07, 11:46 PM

That's not how I read the article. It sounded like to me the 81 series would still be 60 Hz. Hopefully I read it wrong as I'd like to get the 81 series to watch BD's. Although it looks like the wife wants the 71 for gaming...

i was also under the impression that the 81 (without getting into too much detail) was just the 71 but with led backlighting. but yea, that pcworld article really makes it sound like the 81 only has a refresh rate of 60hz...

Lustror

07-30-07, 11:47 PM

I think I made a taboo post by mentioning names so it got deleted, but a store sent me a card for my birthday (!!!) for a small discount on merchandise, and on the list of excluded items, it says the Samsung 81, 89, and 94 TVs.

It's valid through the end of August, so presumably they'll be available by then.

tombaker

07-31-07, 03:03 AM

Hmm based on that, I want the 71 and not the 81. 81 is also supposed to be about 5-6 inches thick vs the 3 inch LCD of today....so the LED is clearly bleeding edge...Generation 1 stuff....while the 120hz is an evolution.

While they won't need to sell the 120Hz for a bunch more....they will.....a good 200-400 premium at least.....why? because they can

snowstorm81

07-31-07, 03:22 AM

spincut

07-31-07, 03:59 AM

One could read this report in time of waiting on these sets.
It costs $5000...
http://www.insightmedia.info/emailblasts/2006lcdreport.htm

Anitcipation on high level now:
I wonder if the 81-series allows configuring the LED-scanning function, i.e. put it on or off? In off mode, it will work as an ordinary uniform BLU, with possibility to increase or decrease backlight as in the 65-series.

In on-mode, the Local Dimming / LED-scanning algrorithm will do its work (hopefully). Also - I hope its possible that they will refine this existing algortihm by providing new firmware as time goes by - just for us too re-Flash!

that's interesting, i never really thought about how the TV would operate if you turn the Local Dimming off. But more importantly, one of the things that i currently dont like about the XBR2 i'm returning is that when i turnb the lights off i either have to deal with a sudden unpleasant brightness from the same setting when the lights were on, or use the light sensor which decreases the backlight level below even the manual setting (Which makes it look alot dimmer than my much easier to watch sony tube television i used to have, which i often watched in the dark, was bright and vivid, but much easier on the eyes at such a level somehow).

glow11

07-31-07, 06:04 AM

81 is also supposed to be about 5-6 inches thick vs the 3 inch LCD of today....so the LED is clearly bleeding edge...Generation 1 stuff....while the 120hz is an evolution.

If the ABT specs are correct, the 81 series adds less than 1/3 of an inch to the depth of the 46 inch LED TV.

westa6969

07-31-07, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by tombaker - 81 is also supposed to be about 5-6 inches thick vs the 3 inch LCD of today....so the LED is clearly bleeding edge...Generation 1 stuff....while the 120hz is an evolution.

According to the specs there's only a three tenths of an inch difference in depth between a 5265 4.3" and a 5281 4.7". My 57" Sharp is five inches deep so where is this person finding three inch LCD's? My 23" Sony in my kitchen is 3.5" deep. In fact, the 5781 is actually slimmer at 4.8" vs my 57" at 5". They must be awfully small panels he's comparing to be 3". The depth difference appears to be insignificant and overstated by some. :)

conan48

07-31-07, 10:19 AM

81 series has reached it's 81st page. CONGRATULATIONS :p Hopefully we get some good news today!

Shinraven

07-31-07, 11:33 AM

81 series has reached it's 81st page. CONGRATULATIONS :p Hopefully we get some good news today!

Lmao ! heres to good news. come on samsung, give us some info.

I could use one of those go81 sessions at work, whatever happened to that boy. :p

rbarg

07-31-07, 11:33 AM

The following is analysis from a blog about the 81 series.

"The Samsung-developed lighting technique is said to dramatically improve color gamut (to 105% of the NTSC range), promising images that perfectly match the source material. Local dimming also boosts contrast ratio to an exceptional 50,000:1, by selectively reducing light for pixels that display darker colors in a given scene"

1. What exactly is color gamut and how does it affect PQ? Is the extra 5% 100% "wasted" wy/TV (NTSC)?

2. Why do some ads place the 81 series contrast ratio at 50,000 to 1 while others show it as 100,000 to 1?

3. On a related ?, why is ABT the only vendor in the world w/a listing for the 81 series? Does that mean it has some sort of exclusive from Samsung because it so large and sells at close to list price?

4. Samsung is probably benefitting immensely by not releasing more information on the 81 series or perhaps nothing is going to ship in August?

5. Is this product the equivalent of the iPhone, technologically speaking, for the flat panel industry or at least for LCDs?

glow11

07-31-07, 01:44 PM

1. What exactly is color gamut and how does it affect PQ? Is the extra 5% 100% "wasted" wy/TV (NTSC)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut
Quick answer NTSC gamut is the range of colors comprising the NTSC standard. Humans can actually see a wider range of colors than is comprised by the NTSC gamut.

2. Why do some ads place the 81 series contrast ratio at 50,000 to 1 while others show it as 100,000 to 1?

I believe it is because the TV can display true black by turning off the backlight in areas. That means there is zero light being emitted by that section. Since 0 to whatever the top value is, is actually infinite, 100,000 or 50,000 are just ways of sounding really impressive. There would be ambient room light and reflections in the truly black areas however, so infinite CR would not be precise either.

3. On a related ?, why is ABT the only vendor in the world w/a listing for the 81 series? Does that mean it has some sort of exclusive from Samsung because it so large and sells at close to list price?

I would guess that ABT just had the stones to post what information they have. I would assume most other retailers that will be selling the 81 have policies against putting pre-orders up without 100% confirmation of specs and delivery dates from the manufacturer.

4. Samsung is probably benefitting immensely by not releasing more information on the 81 series or perhaps nothing is going to ship in August?

Dunno!

5. Is this product the equivalent of the iPhone, technologically speaking, for the flat panel industry or at least for LCDs?

I doubt it, it's just the first of many TV's to be released with this technology. There's nothing truly unique which is protected by patents about the 81, it's just the first out of the gate.

I'm not an expert, so these are just my rattlings.

Admiral Ackbar

07-31-07, 01:56 PM

5. Is this product the equivalent of the iPhone, technologically speaking, for the flat panel industry or at least for LCDs?

I hope not. The iPhone doesn't actually do anything that smartphones haven't done for the past two years. It just makes it easier.

The 81 series is a taste of the future of all LCDs. Its a huge technological leap, not a marketing/UI leap.

tombaker

07-31-07, 03:39 PM

According to the specs there's only a three tenths of an inch difference in depth between a 5265 4.3" and a 5281 4.7". My 57" Sharp is five inches deep so where is this person finding three inch LCD's? My 23" Sony in my kitchen is 3.5" deep. In fact, the 5781 is actually slimmer at 4.8" vs my 57" at 5". They must be awfully small panels he's comparing to be 3". The depth difference appears to be insignificant and overstated by some. :)

It looks like what I referring to by my memory....was some sort of engineering sample for a road show....I looked and I can not find my original reference....so I think I am wrong.

I just looked at my LCD again and it is wider than the 3 inches I thought....so this time of underestimating inches error is new to me.

Usually my error is looking at something 6 inches and thinking its 8
;-) or really :(

westa6969

07-31-07, 03:41 PM

I hope not. The iPhone doesn't actually do anything that smartphones haven't done for the past two years. It just makes it easier.

The 81 series is a taste of the future of all LCDs. Its a huge technological leap, not a marketing/UI leap.
The irony is that CNBC disected the IPhone last month when it debuted and the highest cut of the pie for suppliers that contribute to the building of the IPhone is Samsung.

They generate income of around $74 from their contribution to each IPhone. I would guess that nice panel we see in the commercials is actually Samsung panel and perhaps part of the circuitry I would guess. :)

Admiral Ackbar

07-31-07, 03:59 PM

The irony is that CNBC disected the IPhone last month when it debuted and the highest cut of the pie for suppliers that contribute to the building of the IPhone is Samsung.

They generate income of around $74 from their contribution to each IPhone. I would guess that nice panel we see in the commercials is actually Samsung panel and perhaps part of the circuitry I would guess. :)

I would love to be at a meeting of Samsung executives where they justify making cellphones and selling components to competing cell phone manufacturers.

I'm not saying its bad business, but I bet there are some different division VPs at Samsung who don't get along well with each other.

tonydeluce

07-31-07, 04:45 PM

The irony is that CNBC disected the IPhone last month when it debuted and the highest cut of the pie for suppliers that contribute to the building of the IPhone is Samsung.

They generate income of around $74 from their contribution to each IPhone. I would guess that nice panel we see in the commercials is actually Samsung panel and perhaps part of the circuitry I would guess. :)

What is interesting is just about every high end SMART phone / PDA uses the Marvel processor ( palm, blackberry, pocketPC, etc ). Even Samsung uses the Marvel processor in their highest end smart phones/pdas ( but use samsung processors in their low to mid end lines ).

Marvel does have about $6 for low power wi-fi chip in the iPhone, also BroadCom has a couple bucks, but yes, Samsung seems to have the lion share of components in the iPhone.

jwlswl

07-31-07, 04:55 PM

acramos1

07-31-07, 05:13 PM

Does anyone know if the 81 Series is supposed to come out in early August or late August?

sgolko

07-31-07, 05:15 PM

Does anyone know if the 81 Series is supposed to come out in early August or late August?

I think the short answer to that is no.

xtiger

07-31-07, 05:21 PM

I was in Best Buy yesterday to purchase a Samsung LN-S4096 at their close out price when the sales rep found reference in his inventory to a Samsung 40" with 81 in the model number. He became very frustrated when I told him I was interested and no matter what he did he could not pull up any more info on the TV.
He speculated that indeed it was the new model and that the reason why he couldn't get any info was because he was not allowed to sell it yet. Maybe a 8/1/07 release date? I decided to wait.

What was the closeout price? I think the 81 series is going to be too wide for my center so I might have to purchase the 4096.

acramos1

07-31-07, 05:24 PM

yoshinoja

07-31-07, 05:28 PM

I was in Best Buy yesterday to purchase a Samsung LN-S4096 at their close out price when the sales rep found reference in his inventory to a Samsung 40" with 81 in the model number. He became very frustrated when I told him I was interested and no matter what he did he could not pull up any more info on the TV.
He speculated that indeed it was the new model and that the reason why he couldn't get any info was because he was not allowed to sell it yet. Maybe a 8/1/07 release date? I decided to wait.

Called a local dealer who was advertising the 81's in a recently mailed catalog. They pulled it up on their system and he stated it wasn't expected in until 9/1. So I would suspect they'll be here at the end of August not the beginning.

sgolko

07-31-07, 05:28 PM

I'm a bit confused right now about the price of the 57" inch version of the 81 Series. Half of the websites I've been on say it's $8000.00 while the other half says it's $7000.00. Abt Electronics has it listed as $8000, so can someone please just comment on this?

Hate to look like the jerk, but I'm afraid I have to give the same answer. Samsung has not made any official announcement on release date or MSRP, so all the numbers/dates you have been seeing are speculation or people taking preliminary numbers as official.

Steve

bigjohns1997SS

07-31-07, 05:35 PM

5. Is this product the equivalent of the iPhone, technologically speaking, for the flat panel industry or at least for LCDs?

I doubt it, it's just the first of many TV's to be released with this technology. There's nothing truly unique which is protected by patents about the 81, it's just the first out of the gate.

I'm not an expert, so these are just my rattlings.

Hmmm, i thought i read somewhere that local dimming was patented and that any other lcd's wouldn't be able to dim the led's because it would infringe on their design. If this isn't true then i will probably wait for the first matte screen LED LCD.

glow11

07-31-07, 06:11 PM

Hmmm, i thought i read somewhere that local dimming was patented and that any other lcd's wouldn't be able to dim the led's because it would infringe on their design. If this isn't true then i will probably wait for the first matte screen LED LCD.

Well, I don't know for certain that they don't have some of the technology protected, but Brightside has been selling a ($50,000) model for a couple years, and I've heard talk of other manufacturers prepping local dimming LED displays for release later this year.

Woodrow

07-31-07, 06:47 PM

Some off topic posts removed

Folks, Please return to the thread topic.

Thanks all!

Raptor007

07-31-07, 07:18 PM

Well, I don't know for certain that they don't have some of the technology protected, but Brightside has been selling a ($50,000) model for a couple years, and I've heard talk of other manufacturers prepping local dimming LED displays for release later this year.

Interesting. I too would prefer a matte version, but I'm not sure if I'll have the patience to wait any longer once the 81 series finally does come out. I'm on a tiny CRT at the moment, which contrasts awkwardly with my $1900 surround sound. :¬)

glow11

07-31-07, 07:51 PM

Interesting. I too would prefer a matte version, but I'm not sure if I'll have the patience to wait any longer once the 81 series finally does come out. I'm on a tiny CRT at the moment, which contrasts awkwardly with my $1900 surround sound. :¬)

Is your CRT flat tubed or bowed? If it's flat and glare bugs you, you might want to wait, but I have a flat CRT monitor with glossy surface, and it reflects about 2/3 less than the bowed one I had, just because it doesn't act as a reflection refocusing device :) Samsung's reason for using glossy is that it's impossible to have the surface diffuse just reflective light and not transmissive light, so the gloss coating transmits more of the picture without bloom/blur.

vtms

07-31-07, 08:03 PM

Hmmm, i thought i read somewhere that local dimming was patented and that any other lcd's wouldn't be able to dim the led's because it would infringe on their design. If this isn't true then i will probably wait for the first matte screen LED LCD.
Brightside (now Dolby) owns all the patents for dynamic backlighting but said it wanted to license this technology to as many manufacturers as possible. This is great as all manufacturers are free to adopt local dimming/IMLED if they want to compete with Samsung (and I can't imagine they won't after 81s come out). Soon, this technology could be as prevalent as 120Hz now with all the manufacturers competing to design better IMLEDs (by then, I guess) cheaper.

HD-Gaming

07-31-07, 08:08 PM

Technologically, how is this 40' 81 series going to be better/worse then the 40' XBR4???

Sienar

07-31-07, 08:31 PM

tower101

07-31-07, 09:30 PM

I know a while back there was some debate over the BLU's being controlled in groups. Some people were whining over "just" 60-70 groups not being enough.

I was just wondering if any more details are known on how this grouping works, and how many groups are being used. I know 60-70 is probably more than enough, but I'd still like to the more technical details.

Cheers

That went on for a little while check back a few 100 pages LOL

Summery

It should be better then no dimming but it may produce artifacts and may not be as good as true local dimming.

or

It does not matter and will look great.

:D

There are some nice pics showing what images would look like just using the backlight.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11050204&&#post11050204

mrjgkelly

07-31-07, 10:48 PM

Technologically, how is this 40' 81 series going to be better/worse then the 40' XBR4???
The primary difference is the "new" LED backligting technology and its ability to provide a 100,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio for the 81 Series versus the "old" CCFL backligting technology and the its ability to provide "up to 18,000:1" dynamic contrast ratio for the XBR4 Series. How Samsung's implementation of this relatively new backlighting technology will translate into overall picture quality on the 81 Series compared to the XBR4 Series is still TBD, but on paper the LED backlighting technology is a major advancement over CCFL, and is expected to eventually replace CCFL as the backlighting technology used in LCD displays.

glow11

07-31-07, 10:56 PM

Local dimming is all the rage, but are there any more advancements in the actual liquid crystals on the horizon or have they reached reached their pinacle?

ezstreit1

07-31-07, 11:47 PM

I was in Best Buy yesterday to purchase a Samsung LN-S4096 at their close out price when the sales rep found reference in his inventory to a Samsung 40" with 81 in the model number. He became very frustrated when I told him I was interested and no matter what he did he could not pull up any more info on the TV.
He speculated that indeed it was the new model and that the reason why he couldn't get any info was because he was not allowed to sell it yet. Maybe a 8/1/07 release date? I decided to wait.

I checked the Best Buy web site. The six stores in my area list the Samsung 61 and 65 series in 40, 46 and 52 inch as mostly unavaliable for pickup. One might conclude they have depleted their inventory in anticipation of a new model coming soon- hopefully the 71 and 81's.

foxdie

08-01-07, 12:19 AM

I was in Best Buy yesterday to purchase a Samsung LN-S4096 at their close out price when the sales rep found reference in his inventory to a Samsung 40" with 81 in the model number. He became very frustrated when I told him I was interested and no matter what he did he could not pull up any more info on the TV.
He speculated that indeed it was the new model and that the reason why he couldn't get any info was because he was not allowed to sell it yet. Maybe a 8/1/07 release date? I decided to wait.

I looked on Monday 7-30 and found no Samsung Lcd with "81" in the model number. I will check again tomorrow, Wednesday 8-1.

jksgvb

08-01-07, 02:12 AM

I was thinking about the LED back light arrays on this Samsung and the black bars above and below the picture when a widescreen (2.39:1) image is displayed on a 16:9 aspect-ratio screen. The blacker the black bars the better, of course, because they're less distracting if completely black. I thought if the back light arrays overlapped the widescreen image, distracting 'ghosts' would appear in the black bars. I discovered an interesting relationship between the widescreen image and the backlight arrays: the widescreen image just fits between the upper and lower rows of arrays so these can be completely black.

16:9 back light array of 64 clusters:

http://i18.tinypic.com/4pai0dh.jpg

same array with widescreen (2.39:1) image superimposed:

http://i17.tinypic.com/4qgdba0.jpg

Anybody but me think the size and resolution of the back light arrays were chosen partly to accomodate wide-screen images better? No other aspect ratio need apply...

vtms

08-01-07, 02:25 AM

Anybody but me think the size and resolution of the back light arrays were chosen partly to accomodate wide-screen images better? No other aspect ratio need apply...That's a nice observation, jksgvb.

spincut

08-01-07, 02:38 AM

it's nice in a way, but it then means that the clusters are so big that getting a fine accuracy of what will be pitch black and what wont may not be so great in many situations, and that makes me a bit concerned about how well it will work when it isnt some great demo picture with a great contrasted picture with a nice black backround seperate from the rest of the luminatable picture.

mark_1080p

08-01-07, 03:25 AM

I was thinking about the LED back light arrays on this Samsung and the black bars above and below the picture when a widescreen (2.39:1) image is displayed on a 16:9 aspect-ratio screen. Anybody but me think the size and resolution of the back light arrays were chosen partly to accomodate wide-screen images better? No other aspect ratio need apply...What is just as interesting is what happens if you cut out the left and right column, you end up with a 4:3 screen, perfectly. This is the case because:

16(6/8)/9 = 2*2/3=4/3 the 6/8 is simply the reduction in width if 2 columns are off.

For the other case where the rows are reduced by 2,

16/(9(6/8)) = 2.37 not 2.39 and very close to 2.35. It works, nice observation. We are going to get very black bars on 4:3 and 2.35 movies. Great.

vtms

08-01-07, 07:16 AM

I wonder how many shades of gray 81 Series can display.After investigating this for few more days, according to my calculations based on 64 levels of cluster brightness and 10-bit panel, this display should be capable of displaying 4 extra shades of gray between the lightest gray and white on a standard 256-step grayscale and 256 extra shades between the darkest gray and black (as in 0 cd/m2 black) on 256-step grayscale. In theory, nobody should ever see crushed blacks on this display.

hyslopc

08-01-07, 08:21 AM

Local dimming is all the rage, but are there any more advancements in the actual liquid crystals on the horizon or have they reached reached their pinacle?LED backlighting is only possible because of fairly recent advancements in LED technology, specifically, mass-production of white LEDs. Until white LEDs came along, there was no suitable backlight technology that could be placed in a matrix with enough resolution to make local dimming practicable. So white LEDs (a new technology) are the reason why we've never seen local dimming in flat screen TVs before.

As an aside, the first notebook PCs with LED backlights have just been released in the past few weeks (eg Dell M1330). AFAIK these are not local dimming backlights, they're just using LEDs to give higher brightness with lower weight and a thinner screen.

Alex the Great

08-01-07, 09:48 AM

LED backlighting is only possible because of fairly recent advancements in LED technology, specifically, mass-production of white LEDs. Until white LEDs came along, there was no suitable backlight technology that could be placed in a matrix with enough resolution to make local dimming practicable. So white LEDs (a new technology) are the reason why we've never seen local dimming in flat screen TVs before.

As an aside, the first notebook PCs with LED backlights have just been released in the past few weeks (eg Dell M1330). AFAIK these are not local dimming backlights, they're just using LEDs to give higher brightness with lower weight and a thinner screen.

AFAIK you are mistaken about white LED to be used in 81s. Based on what we heard for now it suppose to be RGB LEDs.

rgreenpc

08-01-07, 11:05 AM

I scanned the thread and did a search but was unable to find any case sizes.

mark_1080p

08-01-07, 11:27 AM

AFAIK you are mistaken about white LED to be used in 81s. Based on what we heard for now it suppose to be RGB LEDs.That is what I thought but one begins to wonder whether with RGB array one would see a christmas tree backlight. To avoid that effect, either the diffuser would have to be very efficient, which would wash out the resolution of the backlight, or the LED's would have to be very small and subclustered together. Just what is the size of these LED's?

Snuffy101

08-01-07, 11:49 AM

LED backlighting is only possible because of fairly recent advancements in LED technology, specifically, mass-production of white LEDs . . .So-called "white LEDs" are not white! They're more blue and use a doping process to try and correct towards white. The do not contain a full spectrum white or even come close. White LEDs are fine for flashlights and such, not LCD BLs. To get a full spectrum white BL, only an RGB array would work and that's what has been stated for the Panny in about every piece of paper on the subject. The arrays would contain very small, closely grouped triads of RGB LEDs.

SoftMachine

08-01-07, 12:11 PM

bluechunks

08-01-07, 12:58 PM

As an aside, the first notebook PCs with LED backlights have just been released in the past few weeks (eg Dell M1330). AFAIK these are not local dimming backlights, they're just using LEDs to give higher brightness with lower weight and a thinner screen.
It appears that the Dell M1330 remains delayed (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41374) with shipping dates posted for September here in the U.S. :mad:

However, I am typing this message on a laptop that does (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) have LED backlighting. ;) And it does work exactly as hyslopc stated with no localized backlighting. 1st gen laptop LED backlights simply allows laptop manufacturers to design units that draw less power and are lighter.

Any way you look at it, LED backlights are coming for pretty much every LCD panel in laptops and televisions in the near future and the 81 series is just the vanguard.

Fedaykin98

08-01-07, 01:03 PM

I've probably just missed it in all the various & sundry posts on this board (I'm old... very old) but I cannot determine whether the 81 has 120hz or not. Is this an unknown so far, or does it in fact have "all the features of the 71, plus..."Thanks

I think there's a lot of confusion on that subject, myself included. There have been reports that suggest the 81 is 120hz, and reports that say that the 71 is 120hz and say nothing about it for the 81, leaving some to think that it might not be.

I think we're still waiting for Samsung to spell it out very clearly in an official communique of some sort - AFAIK, none have specifically said "120hz". And of course they're never going to go out of their way to say "NOT 120hz, unlike our cheaper 71 series! Don't buy this if you care about 120hz!" :)

RainbowGuy

08-01-07, 01:10 PM

I found an article on the Samsung LED BLU by googling LEDBLU. It was by Samsung Electro-Mechanics and in pdf format.

This article suggests that the Samsung LED BLU is Color Sequential and my understanding is that it is the Color Sequential System that causes the "Rainbow Effect" and not necessarily the Color Wheel in DLPs. It is just that until the LED BLU, the only systems using Color Sequential was DLP. Because I am particularly bothered by "The Rainbow Effect, I would appreciate any comments on what we might expect in the way of rainbows or not on the Series 81. Perhaps it is just a "wait and see" type of issue.

vtms

08-01-07, 01:19 PM

81 Series doesn't have sequential color. That's the next stage in LCD's evolution after dynamic backlights that we might see in 3rd or 4th generation of LED-based LCDs.

RainbowGuy

08-01-07, 01:37 PM

81 Series doesn't have sequential color. That's the next stage in LCD's evolution after dynamic backlights that we might see in 3rd or 4th generation of LED-based LCDs.

This solves some interesting math for me. I assumed 120 Hz and color sequential. That would require a new frame every 1/360 th of a second. That works out to 2.78 millisecond refresh time. I would have to assume that the RGB LEDs are mixed in the diffuser. I would not think that white LEDs could be doped to give 105% NTSC. Is there a reference that Series 81 is not color sequential?

hyslopc

08-01-07, 01:58 PM

However, I am typing this message on a laptop that does (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) have LED backlighting.Does the MacBook Pro use white or RGB LEDs for its backlight?

bluechunks

08-01-07, 02:20 PM

Does the MacBook Pro use white or RGB LEDs for its backlight?
Sorry, I don't know and a quick Google search did not provide much insight.

Anybody?

scherer326

08-01-07, 02:24 PM

foxdie, any luck with the 81 series in the best buy computer

glow11

08-01-07, 02:30 PM

What benefit would sequential color bring to a display? Seems like a step backward to me.

mike123abc

08-01-07, 02:47 PM

What benefit would sequential color bring to a display? Seems like a step backward to me.

I do not see any advantages either. The next logical step would seem to be able to dim the individual RGB LEDs. So, you can have full intensity red, blue slightly lit and green turned off in the same cluster to better produce a certain shade of slightly bluish red (or whatever color) without having the slight tinge of green not being blocked out 100%.

irkuck

08-01-07, 03:50 PM

What benefit would sequential color bring to a display? Seems like a step backward to me.

Sequential color may bring improvement in color purity and black levels. This is because in sequential color system only one of the RGB backlight colors is active at any time and then the LCD cells for other colors can be put to full blocking state. The color leaking through the other cells will be thus minimized. In conventional system the color leaking is reduced only by employing color filters. In the color sequential system it is additionally reduced by having only single color active and by full blocking of light by LCD cells of other colors.

Taking this reasoning to extreme, one can think about an LCD color sequential system WITHOUT color filters. It should work, the question isonly how much light would be leaking through LCD cells in full blocking state without additional blocking done by the color filters.

Alex the Great

08-01-07, 03:51 PM

...... 1st gen laptop LED backlights simply allows laptop manufacturers to design units that draw less power and are lighter.
.....

Ironically first LED BL TV 81F is heavier compare to CCFL 71F. If specs we have now is correct (TBC).

Raptor007

08-01-07, 04:00 PM

Does the MacBook Pro use white or RGB LEDs for its backlight?

Not sure; it isn't mentioned on the specs page (I'm pretty sure this is the right one):
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/productInfo.do?upper_fmly_id=601&fmly_id=611&partnum=LTN170U1

RainbowGuy

08-01-07, 04:57 PM

What benefit would sequential color bring to a display? Seems like a step backward to me.

Because of my problem with the "Rainbow Effect", I agree that it would be a step backward. Because I am new to the forum I am unable to post the link to the Samsung document on LED BLU in which they specifically refer to it being color sequential. You can find it by googling "LED BLU". I think it would be an improvement if it doesn't cause rainbows because the LED light would be unfiltered and therefore a purer source.

4min33

08-01-07, 04:58 PM

Does the MacBook Pro use white or RGB LEDs for its backlight?
white (blue + yellow phosphor actually)

but laptops are typically 50% NTSC color gamut best case

Some one asked about color sequential. Color sequential can be a huge power savings because the color filters in an LCD lose over 2/3 of the light. Typical panel stackup has only 6-7 percent of the backlight luminance passing through the panel. White LED's crossed over CCFL in luminous efficacy last year and won't look back. However RGB's will not be as efficient and generally need a closed loop system for white balance.

Samsung has been demonstrating a color-sequential LCD TV for a while now (I think it was 40" diagonal). Not too impressive looking, had noticeable color break-up if shook your head.

RainbowGuy

08-01-07, 05:03 PM

Sequential color may bring improvement in color purity and black levels. This is because in sequential color system only one of the RGB backlight colors is active at any time and then the LCD cells for other colors can be put to full blocking state. The color leaking through the other cells will be thus minimized. In conventional system the color leaking is reduced only by employing color filters. In the color sequential system it is additionally reduced by having only single color active and by full blocking of light by LCD cells of other colors.

Taking this reasoning to extreme, one can think about an LCD color sequential system WITHOUT color filters. It should work, the question isonly how much light would be leaking through LCD cells in full blocking state without additional blocking done by the color filters.

This precisely the system described in the Samsung Paper which can be found by googling "LED BLU". If in fact there is something about LCD panels which would cancel out the "Rainbow Effect", this would be my choice for a new display. I am concerned that filtering the LED light would lose much of the color gamut increase that LED could provide.