I'm in the market for a 52". Was looking at Pioneer plasma but afraid of IR's and
possible burn ins. Sony LCD's have a clouding issue. Sharp has a banding issue.
I just started to look at Samsung in this board and don't see any concerns on banding or clouds with Samsung. Is Samsung free of these problems? Please let me know honestly as this is a lot of $$ to spend then make a mistake.
Thanks
Bob

No mention of these problems cause nobody's seen em! I'll post my findings when I get my pre-order. This is assuming the distribution chain works properly and I actually get it in a reasonable amount of time. Hopefully some will be reviewed before the actual release, but don't bet the farm on it.

ABT electronics has it listed on their website, but given that this is a completely new, untested set I don't think I'll risk ordering the set online unless I absolutely have to. I'll try getting BB to check their warehouse stock this weekend.

Also let the BB know that Magnolia A/V out West is carrying them, maybe they can figure out the distribution model if they do a little snooping.

Dude, I would seriously doubt any manufaturer would create 2 entirely different models to distinguish the same LCD with and without a glossy screen or for Marketing purposes, but if that is what you want to believe, I'm not going to argue with you. If the only differentiator was the glass, I would think there would be an LN-T4665FM (Matte) and a LN-T4665FG (Gloss), or something to that effect, and the features/specs would be the same.

Personally I could care less about the 61 and 65 mid-tier models, because I will most likely be pulling the trigger on either the 71 or 81 premium-tier models. Yes, I know the 61's and 65's are currently listed as premiums now, but I doubt they will be listed in that category once the 71's and 81's are introduced.

No offense, but this proves you are definitely NOT a marketing guy. Marketing is evil, by the way. ;)

All it takes is glass vs matte finish, and someone leaving out features in a brochure for the 61 series, and voila, 65 series can be sold at a $200 premium, with a same or slightly higher manufacturing cost than the 61 series. It happens all the time in this industry.

From time to time people bring up the gloss issue, and I respond, particularly when I see denial of its effect on viewing in a typical family room environment. It is an extremely important aspect of an LCD display. Yes, some are regulars here but others come in and begin new discussions and do not have the time to read such huge threads. They have not heard the arguments, and should be given a little slack. Go read the CNET 4661 review, then call him names, since I believe his review is very well done.

I would like to see how the set performs. For such high contrast ratios, it just may be that a glossy screen is the right way to go for this particular model. It seems that Samsung has more trouble getting high CR with a matte screen, based on details elucidated in previous parts of this discussion. Local dimming will probably be a dark room phenomenon and will not be noticed at all in a typical lit living room environment, or perhaps at the margins.

Still, it would be nice if the 81 could be a TV for all needs, with a semi-matte finish like the Sharp d92, usable in bright and dark environments. That is not to be, Samsung has decided to go the glossy notebook PC route. So that is the way it is, that is over. I am over it, but as new people come on board and the topic, a very important topic, arises, I feel some discussion is justified.

Still, what I consider to be worse than inane ravings is an attitude of intolerance to criticism. In science and academia in general, that attitude is untenable. This is the AV Science Forum, and I have to keep bringing this point up again and again, but there should be no excuse for people to try to limit discussion, as long as it is relevant. This topic is very relevant, it has a direct bearing on the performance of the set. Statements against repetition are not an excuse to squelch a voice, rather they are inconsiderate of newcomers who cannot invest the time to read 100 page threads.
If you are not buying a 71/81, why are you still here?

I checked Fry's Electronics in Woodland Hills (L.A. County), CA. The LNT-4681 is now in their system, and the sale price is set at $3799. By being "in the system", I have been told it is expected to be due into their stores within a few weeks.

Regards,

RC

If you are not buying a 71/81, why are you still here?
Is everyone here buying a 71/81?

Anyway, Westa is right, if the performance is that good, who knows, I could buy one anyway despite my distaste of the design and glossy screen. I do have curtains and miniblinds :). I was considering the 4065 for a computer monitor but realized there is generally 1 or more lamps nearby so would not have worked out, so I type as I watch this fantastic 4061 as a 1920x1080 monitor.

what kind of pricing can we expect from the big river? im new to the game and was wondering if they offer big discounts on newly released sets or if it takes awhile to go down. i ask bc the 4665 has a huge discount and i would willingly wait for the 4671 to come out if i could expect to get it for ~$2600. TIA

Is everyone here buying a 71/81?

Anyway, Westa is right, if the performance is that good, who knows, I could buy one anyway despite my distaste of the design and glossy screen. I do have curtains and miniblinds :). I was considering the 4065 for a computer monitor but realized there is generally 1 or more lamps nearby so would not have worked out, so I type as I watch this fantastic 4061 as a 1920x1080 monitor.
Well what you do is set up some backlighting behind the tv, like some nice wall lamps, draw the blinds/curtains and relax make some popcorn. Everyone here is interested in the 71/81 and have been since it has been announced, hence why we are here. We are waiting for it to hit shelves so that we can indulge in the first adopters reviews and decide for ourselves if this is THE tv to be had. We then wait out the 2 week honeymoon so the owners can start posting some positives and negatives. Then we all rush frantically to the store to get one. That is how it usually works on here.

I guess you don't like the bezel but I don't ever see it with the lights off, all I see is the screen and what it is displaying. Mine is mounted on the wall with a 15 degree angle downward. Since the tv is mounted up high about 5 feet at center, it is downsloped so that when I am lounging on the recliner couch, it is at a perfect viewpoint. This also helps to not reflect anything. Something I have been doing since I owned a PDP back in the day. These are easy work abouts to increase ones enjoyment of thier tv.... Plus it looks elegant.

Is everyone here buying a 71/81?



I haven't ruled it out, but I mostly just lurk here to keep up with the technology advancements. I'm scoping out the XBR4's, and if they disappoint, I may wait for the 81 reviews to pour in.

Brandon

Dude, I would seriously doubt any manufaturer would create 2 entirely different models to distinguish the same LCD with and without a glossy screen or for Marketing purposes.

The ironic beauty in this statement is that it shows how effective marketing can be if it's done well.

Brandon

Well all i know i that i went to my Best Buy in Minnesota and just asked about it in the Magnolia section, the guy was one of those button up shirt and tie magnolia salesmen and he looked like the "head honcho". So much for his dazzling sales skills when i asked him about the "new samsungs" he insisted, quite intently that "they are already out" and then showed me as i rolled me eyes as i knew exactly how the next 10 of my minutes would be wasted.

It took several insitances that Samsung isnt FINISHED coming out with TV's to get him to check, and oddly, they had a late august ship date for the 81 series but NOT the 71, apparently, at least the magnolia best buy nearest to me is not going to carry the 71, but they do plan to carry the 81.

It took several insitances that Samsung isnt FINISHED coming out with TV's to get him to checkLOL! Gotta love those types of sales guys - I feel your pain...

Well all i know i that i went to my Best Buy in Minnesota and just asked about it in the Magnolia section, the guy was one of those button up shirt and tie magnolia salesmen and he looked like the "head honcho". So much for his dazzling sales skills when i asked him about the "new samsungs" he insisted, quite intently that "they are already out" and then showed me as i rolled me eyes as i knew exactly how the next 10 of my minutes would be wasted.

It took several insitances that Samsung isnt FINISHED coming out with TV's to get him to check, and oddly, they had a late august ship date for the 81 series but NOT the 71, apparently, at least the magnolia best buy nearest to me is not going to carry the 71, but they do plan to carry the 81.

Wasn't too long ago dealers of high end electronics were hired for, and prided themselves in a ridiculous dedication to the trade, and held it as a point of pride that they could tell you everything about anything related to what they sold. Even in chains, there was always at least one guy there that was fanatical about knowing his stuff. Those days seem to be over, and with the independant shops dropping like flies, I dont think it will ever come return.

Imagine going to a car dealership, especially a high end dealership and the sales manager just giving you dumb looks when you ask about whats coming out in the near future, let alone being able to describe the selling points of cars on his lot.

Imagine going to a car dealership, especially a high end dealership and the sales manager just giving you dumb looks when you ask about whats coming out in the near future, let alone being able to describe the selling points of cars on his lot.

That doesn't happen now :D

That doesn't happen now :D

Well, I'm talking high end dealers, so a Porsche dealer or Mercedes dealer you expect to know his stuff. :)

Well, I'm talking high end dealers, so a Porsche dealer or Mercedes dealer you expect to know his stuff. :)

You would think so but you might be unpleasantly surprised.

When are these TVs coming out again I am getting antsy LOL

I think that some of you might find this info about 81 series dimming zones interesting:

40" 64 zones (683.1 sq. in.)
52" 117 zones (1154.81 sq. in)
70" 192 zones (2092 sq. in.)

http://i14.tinypic.com/4ukbdds.jpg

;)

I'm not really sure those numbers can be right. Let's say that 70" is 16x12 = 192, like it says there. What is the 40" - 8x8? Seems strange that it's a completely different aspect ratio (1:1 squares instead of 4:3 rectangles). 52" = 13x9 = 117, that's neither 4:3 nor 1:1.

When are these TVs coming out again I am getting antsy LOL
In a couple of weeks. I think everybody is getting a little antsy around here too. :p

Not in the latest manual that was posted but on the german specs page

http://www.1staudiovisual.co.uk/catalog/pdfs/SamsungF96.pdf

It seems as F96 has 24p output capability. What about 71/81 series?

this 81 series along w/ the kuros gave me a woody. boing ! :p 2 more weeks !!!! woot

O.K., I know there have been complaints about new members asking the same questions over and over in this thread but I've sincerely looked back through the posts and couldn't find an answer to this.

Was it ever settled that the 81 is also 120Hz or is it just 60Hz?

Google searches have yielded conflicting info and if it is 60Hz it's going to make for a difficult decision for me. I'd love the local dimming but I primarily use my setup for watching sports or gaming so the 120Hz sounds really attractive.

O.K., I know there have been complaints about new members asking the same questions over and over in this thread but I've sincerely looked back through the posts and couldn't find an answer to this.

Was it ever settled that the 81 is also 120Hz or is it just 60Hz?

Google searches have yielded conflicting info and if it is 60Hz it's going to make for a difficult decision for me. I'd love the local dimming but I primarily use my setup for watching sports or gaming so the 120Hz sounds really attractive.

Supposedly its a strobed backlight, so 120hz isn't necessary. Double supposedly, it does 24p stuff at 48hz. Both these things align technically at least, because it was always the flourescent backlight in the LCD TVs that prevented pulsing the light. Pulsing the light should get rid of the motion blurring because you won't be seeing the intermediate image as the LCD crystal realigns. Instead the backlight will shut off, then the LCD will realign, and then the backlight will come back on. This is really a big change for LCDs.

Are you just making this up??

If you have some prof then fine but all the available evidence says you are wrong.

Well, I cannot speak for every piece of Samsung TV set but I owned 4061 and I did my research. So if you look at tech spec for this TV, not marketing BS, you would see for yourself that 65s have WCG and 61s have not.

Talking about panels. Coz I did not open my set and have it returned now, but every Samsung TV has a sticker on back with panel version. My set had SS03 version which is different from SPxx or SQxx versions for 65s TV. We know that Samsung has 2 versions of panels in 40” and 46” sizes – 72% and 92%. I can imagine that depends on panel availability some 61s can be equipped with 92% panels, but I hope not other way around. So some of 61s owners may be lucky to have 92% panel, but with 72% FW settings. This setting makes 92% panel perform like 72%. My set had 72% setting (see attached picture. Please note Panel Option setting is AM instead of AMWCG or AMCCFL_120 for 92% sets) and I did not try to overstock it to 92%. Besides, I remember that couple of months ago I looked for replacement for 4061 I examined 4661 and 4665 at BB with magnifying glass and pixels structure did look different.

Anyway I am not interested in this discussion, new 71 and 81 sets will have new panels and the knowledge of may or may not 6-th gen of Sammy share the panel is irrelevant.
YMMV.
AG

Anyone care to comment on the low color gamut % on the german pdf spec sheet, surely that's a misprint or the PAL color space is diffrent than the NTSC or something. I can't believe this tv would have less availible color than current ccfl 92% sets.

Anyone care to comment on the low color gamut % on the german pdf spec sheet, surely that's a misprint or the PAL color space is diffrent than the NTSC or something. I can't believe this tv would have less availible color than current ccfl 92% sets.

AFAIK PAL eqwalent of 92% NTSC is 117 or 120%.

AFAIK PAL eqwalent of 92% NTSC is 117 or 120%.

Thanks Alex !!

http://www.1staudiovisual.co.uk/catalog/pdfs/SamsungF96.pdf

There is the original link, now i can continue my waiting for the 81 series, I was wondering if it was all for nothing had this set been a downgrade in any aspect i would have gone with the 5265, now i get to wait...

Thanks again.

Well, I cannot speak for every piece of Samsung TV set but I owned 4061 and I did my research. So if you look at tech spec for this TV, not marketing BS, you would see for yourself that 65s have WCG and 61s have not.

Talking about panels. Coz I did not open my set and have it returned now, but every Samsung TV has a sticker on back with panel version. My set had SS03 version which is different from SPxx or SQxx versions for 65s TV. We know that Samsung has 2 versions of panels in 40” and 46” sizes – 72% and 92%. I can imagine that depends on panel availability some 61s can be equipped with 92% panels, but I hope not other way around. So some of 61s owners may be lucky to have 92% panel, but with 72% FW settings. This setting makes 92% panel perform like 72%. My set had 72% setting (see attached picture. Please note Panel Option setting is AM instead of AMWCG or AMCCFL_120 for 92% sets) and I did not try to overstock it to 92%. Besides, I remember that couple of months ago I looked for replacement for 4061 I examined 4661 and 4665 at BB with magnifying glass and pixels structure did look different.

Anyway I am not interested in this discussion, new 71 and 81 sets will have new panels and the knowledge of may or may not 6-th gen of Sammy share the panel is irrelevant.
YMMV.
AG

:rolleyes: What ever

I checked Fry's Electronics in Woodland Hills (L.A. County), CA. The LNT-4681 is now in their system, and the sale price is set at $3799. By being "in the system", I have been told it is expected to be due into their stores within a few weeks.

Regards,

RC

I was going to call them & see if they can get it cheaper than what I pre-ordered mine for but their return policy states this:

Refunds cannot be given on televisions 24" and larger. In-home service is offered by the manufacturer on large TV's and may be your most convenient option. Defective items may be returned within 30 days of the purchase date for replacement or upgrade. Please insure sufficient packaging is used to protect any return shipments. Customer is responsible for any damage caused due to insufficient packaging.


Er, WHA?

:rolleyes: What ever
I do not care either…
I am happy owner of 40W3000 (10bit/10bit, 92%WCG) set and Sammy has about 3 weeks to convince me to return it in exchange for 71/81 model.
:) :) :)

Supposedly its a strobed backlight, so 120hz isn't necessary. Double supposedly, it does 24p stuff at 48hz. Both these things align technically at least, because it was always the flourescent backlight in the LCD TVs that prevented pulsing the light. Pulsing the light should get rid of the motion blurring because you won't be seeing the intermediate image as the LCD crystal realigns. Instead the backlight will shut off, then the LCD will realign, and then the backlight will come back on. This is really a big change for LCDs.

Good to know, Thanks Admiral! :)

Supposedly its a strobed backlight, so 120hz isn't necessary. Double supposedly, it does 24p stuff at 48hz. Both these things align technically at least, because it was always the flourescent backlight in the LCD TVs that prevented pulsing the light. Pulsing the light should get rid of the motion blurring because you won't be seeing the intermediate image as the LCD crystal realigns. Instead the backlight will shut off, then the LCD will realign, and then the backlight will come back on. This is really a big change for LCDs.

This is assuming the LCDs can realign fast enough for all grey to grey transitions where typical crystal response times are higher than the stated pixel response time. The more crystals that finish aligning before the blanking period ends the greater the motion blur is reduced. Typically you want very fast pixel response time with this approach so you can reduce the blanking period thusly increasing candela output. If the average g2g pixel response time is 8ms the panel should be able to achieve close to a 50/50 on/off duty cycle.

I was going to call them & see if they can get it cheaper than what I pre-ordered mine for but their return policy states this:

Refunds cannot be given on televisions 24" and larger. In-home service is offered by the manufacturer on large TV's and may be your most convenient option. Defective items may be returned within 30 days of the purchase date for replacement or upgrade. Please insure sufficient packaging is used to protect any return shipments. Customer is responsible for any damage caused due to insufficient packaging.


Er, WHA?


if you got that off of fry's website, then that policy applies only to their website orders. Going to the store for a purchase, that restriction doesn't apply. For example, I returned a 32" lcd to them last year, bought in store and returned in store and there was no problem with the return.. money back, just like they informed me when I had inquired about their return policy prior to purchasing.

The more I read about this television, the more I think that if it performs as advertised I won't be able to settle for less.

I weep for my bank account :(

Supposedly its a strobed backlight, so 120hz isn't necessary. Double supposedly, it does 24p stuff at 48hz. Both these things align technically at least, because it was always the flourescent backlight in the LCD TVs that prevented pulsing the light. Pulsing the light should get rid of the motion blurring because you won't be seeing the intermediate image as the LCD crystal realigns. Instead the backlight will shut off, then the LCD will realign, and then the backlight will come back on. This is really a big change for LCDs.

Please excuse me crushing the party :), but it had been discussed in this thread before. All CCFL are actually pulsing all the time with 200 or 400 Hz frequency. This is the fact, does LED pulsing in a different fashion? I am not sure, but I am sure is that CCFL BL does not have enough domains for efficient LD. An of cause RGB LEDs have a better spectra characteristics, but not as good as lasers.

EDID: I don’t really understand the difference between pulsing and strobing conformably to BL? Any comments?

if you got that off of fry's website, then that policy applies only to their website orders. Going to the store for a purchase, that restriction doesn't apply. For example, I returned a 32" lcd to them last year, bought in store and returned in store and there was no problem with the return.. money back, just like they informed me when I had inquired about their return policy prior to purchasing.

Ah!, I will check out their price then, thanks!

Please excuse me crushing the party :), but it had been discussed in this thread before. All CCFL are actually pulsing all the time with 200 or 400 Hz frequency. This is the fact, does LED pulsing in a different fashion? I am not sure, but I am sure is that CCFL BL does not have enough domains for efficient LD. An of cause RGB LEDs have a better spectra characteristics, but not as good as lasers.

My understanding is that CCFL is unable to produce a precise finely tuned on/off duty cycle that is required for the blanking interval to allow the crystals align to their new positions. For LED it is easy to get them to precisely turn on and off as required.

All CCFL are actually pulsing all the time with 200 or 400 Hz frequency. This is the fact, does LED pulsing in a different fashion?LEDs don't pulse at all, unless you switch the power to them on and off very quickly, which apparently is what Samsung is planning to do with this set. By pulsing the LEDs at the frame rate, hopefully there won't be any motion blur. In theory, this should work, but we'll have to see whether it works in practice.

Please excuse me crushing the party :), but it had been discussed in this thread before. All CCFL are actually pulsing all the time with 200 or 400 Hz frequency. This is the fact, does LED pulsing in a different fashion? I am not sure, but I am sure is that CCFL BL does not have enough domains for efficient LD. An of cause RGB LEDs have a better spectra characteristics, but not as good as lasers.

EDID: I don’t really understand the difference between pulsing and strobing conformably to BL? Any comments?

200-400hz doesn't buy you anything because they are blinking at 5ms or 2.5ms respectively. Since LCD crystals don't reallign that fast and the blinking of a CCFL is not complete light to complete dark (I believe its more like a SIN wave) you will still see all parts of the LCD crystal realignment (which causes motion blur). Ideally you would like to be able to turn off the backlight for most of the state change of the LCD crystal.

LEDs don't pulse at all, unless you switch the power to them on and off very quickly, which apparently is what Samsung is planning to do with this set. By pulsing the LEDs at the frame rate, hopefully there won't be any motion blur. In theory, this should work, but we'll have to see whether it works in practice.

Thanks, This is a good point. Would be interesting to see LED BL timing diagram ... how dip the dimming... and how it synchronized with progressive scan... questions....

Wait a minute -

The "71" series has the glossy screen? True or false?

Wait a minute -

The "71" series has the glossy screen? True or false?

True

True

Yuck.
:(

Thanks for the swift answer. :D

Looks like it may be the Tosh 46LX177 for me after all.

Looks like it may be the Tosh 46LX177 for me after all.

Yuck.
:(



:)

Wasn't too long ago dealers of high end electronics were hired for, and prided themselves in a ridiculous dedication to the trade, and held it as a point of pride that they could tell you everything about anything related to what they sold. Even in chains, there was always at least one guy there that was fanatical about knowing his stuff. Those days seem to be over, and with the independant shops dropping like flies, I dont think it will ever come return.

Imagine going to a car dealership, especially a high end dealership and the sales manager just giving you dumb looks when you ask about whats coming out in the near future, let alone being able to describe the selling points of cars on his lot.

You know though i then went to Ultimate Electronics, which used to be an Audio King and the guys there usually know their stuff, but the same damn thing happened with the guy there too! He showed me the 61's and the 65's, i tried playing dumb insisting "no the NEW ones, the ones that HAVENT come out yet". He claims to have heard nothing, he even made me watch as i had to "think of the model number" as he sat at the PUBLIC SAMSUNG WEBSITE......gee, think i might have not looked there if i was really curious???

Anyhow, i very nicely tried to imply that if he was browsing the samsung website looking for a model i was knowingly inquiring about that perhaps he didnt know anything i was looking to find out about, but he was nicer about it, saying "you got me there buddy, you probably know alot more about it than me".

Anyhow though they didnt even have any shipping information, strange considering best buy actually did.

I dunno though, i might be leaning away from LCD's at this point, if for the primary reason that only today was i able to ask and find out that it was exclusively to them that my eyes couldnt adjust to their glare unless dimmed heavily below what looked like any other tv i owned. I thought the new samsungs might not be as bad in that respect but apparently LCD's really do sheen out brightness that other TV's like Plasmas and tubes do not, even when they are visually on the screen not as bright.

I may have to go with a plasma if i want to be able to watch tv in the dark without having the backlight be below minimum manual levels (when i use the auto light sensor on my XBR2 and the lights are off it actually forces the backlight to below the lowest manual setting to make it to overpowering, unfortauntely any other TV would be alot brighter looking but much less bright "feeling".....if you know what i mean).

Yuck.
:(

Thanks for the swift answer. :D

I know how you feel.

I've got the money and I'm anxiously awaiting the 46" of the 81 series. But when I was buying my MacBook Pro, I looked at both the glossy and matte screen options in the store, and immediately noticed that in the glossy version, I could see every light source and light-colored object behind me. Needless to say, I went with matte, and I'm very satisfied.

If my impression of the LN-T4681F on display is similarly disappointing, I may be forced to wait for another worthy HDTV to come along before I buy. I really want a Samsung; in my opinion they're the best LCD maker out there. But the gloss may be a deal-breaker for me. :( I'll have to wait and see though; maybe it won't be so bad.

On the plus side, if I decide not to go with the 81 series, I'll probably wait for the Philips 120Hz and spend far less money. For me, it's a question of which I will regret more: a glossy screen or a fluorescent backlight.

:rolleyes: What ever
Apology accepted ;)

Apology accepted ;)

:rolleyes: Ya what ever you are wrong but can't comprehend the multiple links I provided.

Just give it up go post you thoughts over on the LN-T thread I am done with this stupidity.

I've got the money and I'm anxiously awaiting the 46" of the 81 series. But when I was buying my MacBook Pro, I looked at both the glossy and matte screen options in the store, and immediately noticed that in the glossy version, I could see every light source and light-colored object behind me. Needless to say, I went with matte, and I'm very satisfied.

If my impression of the LN-T4681F on display is similarly disappointing, I may be forced to wait for another worthy HDTV to come along before I buy. I really want a Samsung; in my opinion they're the best LCD maker out there. But the gloss may be a deal-breaker for me. :( I'll have to wait and see though; maybe it won't be so bad.
Viewed HP notebooks today, all had glossy screens. Scientist colleague just got a new MAC, matte screen. His logic, basically as mine - why put up with the distractions, especially as the computer is for scientific work and some internet, not games. Don't know if HP makes matte or not, if not bye bye HP.

Deal breaker - that is the whole problem with glossy screens. For the gloss fan boys around, let's realize that

gloss is excluding a segment of the population, just like DLP.

Let's face it - if Samsung had not introduced gloss the same people would still be around here.

How many really would not buy a Samsung if it was matte only? Very few, I suspect.

hey. . . . the 81 series is now in bestbuy inventory. . . . one small problem though. . . no product from samsung yet. . . . . . the respective prices are $2999 for the 40, $3999 for the 46, and $4999 for the 52.. . . . not a bad price point. . . . but definately a little over the current models. . .

hey. . . . the 81 series is now in bestbuy inventory.


Do you know when the 71s are shipping? There a nice little store in NYC that has ordered them...

Viewed HP notebooks today, all had glossy screens. Scientist colleague just got a new MAC, matte screen. His logic, basically as mine - why put up with the distractions, especially as the computer is for scientific work and some internet, not games. Don't know if HP makes matte or not, if not bye bye HP.


Matte has its virtues...but in the retail channel you can only find Gloss except for the rare exception. Goto HP or Dell or any manufacturer site and you can still buy the standard matte screen. I was helping my GF decide which type to get for her laptop....and I pointed out that every LCD TV was matte finish for a reason.

The 65 series is a great addition to the marketplace of LCDs....some people love the screen...and Samsung is smart to serve them....Other are not...and Samsung is smart to continue to serve them.

Matte and Gloss finishing for photography existed together for many years....and you will see more Gloss LCD come out....I still prefer Matte

Viewed HP notebooks today, all had glossy screens. Scientist colleague just got a new MAC, matte screen. His logic, basically as mine - why put up with the distractions, especially as the computer is for scientific work and some internet, not games. Don't know if HP makes matte or not, if not bye bye HP.

Deal breaker - that is the whole problem with glossy screens. For the gloss fan boys around, let's realize that

gloss is excluding a segment of the population, just like DLP.

Let's face it - if Samsung had not introduced gloss the same people would still be around here.

How many really would not buy a Samsung if it was matte only? Very few, I suspect.

I agree. At least with the 61/65 series, there was a choice. I wish Samsung would put out an 80 series which would be identical to the 81 series, but matte screen. That'd be my ideal HDTV, no doubt about it.

The 81 is OFFICALLY 120 HZ

Like the 71 series, the 81 series models include 1080p resolution and a 120Hz frame rate using Samsung’s Auto Motion PlusLED technology. The Auto Motion Plus system is implemented “a little bit differently” than in the 71 series models, employing the LED quadrant scanning system, said Ali Atash, Samsung LCD senior marketing manager.

Stepping up is the 81 series, which will receive a protected distribution policy targeting A/V specialty dealers, installers and sales-driven regional accounts.

The series adds most of the features of the 71 series plus LED-based backlighting, which dramatically increases contrast, black level, and color saturation, while increasing the life expectancy of the panel lighting system to 80,000 hours from 50,000 hours in most CCFL models.

To improve contrast, the LED system uses a process called “local dimming” and scans images onto the screen in three synchronized quadrants to achieve a 100,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio. Unlike CRT “scanning” the system does not introduce artifacts into the picture, the company said.

------------------------

The 71 series, which will receive open distribution, features 1080p resolution, a 120Hz “Auto Motion Plus” frame rate system based on interpolation techniques to smooth out fast motion images, CCFL backlighting, and three HDMI v1.3 inputs with x.v.YCC expanded color gamut capability. Other features include Samsung’s Super Clear Panel technology and a 25,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio. In addition to the side-firing speakers, the series includes a subwoofer mounted on the back of the panel to enhance bass sound response.

I agree. At least with the 61/65 series, there was a choice. I wish Samsung would put out an 80 series which would be identical to the 81 series, but matte screen. That'd be my ideal HDTV, no doubt about it.

I think we will see combos like the 61 and 65 nongloss and gloss for a good long time. I can no believe that Samsung does not get the clear split of consumers that want either one.

But from the marketing perspective if you are going to bring out one first...you bring out the gloss...it wows them just the same way VIVID default valued sell TVs in showrooms.

As I just posted above the screen is going to be different than the 65 its a higher C/R screen....so there is a chance it won't be so glossy....As with laptops there are Gloss screen that are not so super reflective as others....the 65 was on the High side for shinny glossy. So the proof will be in the pudding.....to bad no tasting yet.

The 81s will only be in high end stores too...quite interesting.

I think that some of you might find this info about 81 series dimming zones interesting:
40" 64 zones (683.1 sq. in.)
52" 117 zones (1154.81 sq. in)
70" 192 zones (2092 sq. in.)

Fascinating. The difference in backlight matrix resolution between 40'' and 70" pretty much explains why 40'' is listed as having 100K:1 CR while 70'' as having 500K:1. The zone numbers for different sizes clearly indicate Samsung is using the same-sized clusters for all sets (~4.3''x2.5'') and that the number of clusters depends on the panel size and cluster dimensions rather than on the ability to drive them. 70" at 16x12 has exactly 3X more clusters than 40" backlight at 8x8 and should be the most impressive display in the series. I guess with locally dimmed sets size will matter. No wonder it's being sold in Korea for $63K.

Nice nick, btw. :cool:

The 81 is OFFICALLY 120 HZ

Like the 71 series, the 81 series models include 1080p resolution and a 120Hz frame rate using Samsung’s Auto Motion PlusLED technology. The Auto Motion Plus system is implemented “a little bit differently” than in the 71 series models, employing the LED quadrant scanning system, said Ali Atash, Samsung LCD senior marketing manager.

Stepping up is the 81 series, which will receive a protected distribution policy targeting A/V specialty dealers, installers and sales-driven regional accounts.

The series adds most of the features of the 71 series plus LED-based backlighting, which dramatically increases contrast, black level, and color saturation, while increasing the life expectancy of the panel lighting system to 80,000 hours from 50,000 hours in most CCFL models.


To improve contrast, the LED system uses a process called “local dimming” and scans images onto the screen in three synchronized quadrants to achieve a 100,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio. Unlike CRT “scanning” the system does not introduce artifacts into the picture, the company said.

------------------------

The 71 series, which will receive open distribution, features 1080p resolution, a 120Hz “Auto Motion Plus” frame rate system based on interpolation techniques to smooth out fast motion images, CCFL backlighting, and three HDMI v1.3 inputs with x.v.YCC expanded color gamut capability. Other features include Samsung’s Super Clear Panel technology and a 25,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio. In addition to the side-firing speakers, the series includes a subwoofer mounted on the back of the panel to enhance bass sound response.

I've seen that article before, but it's as official as the articles that state that the 81 is not 120hz.
I hope it is, but until Samsung (or the TV) say or prove otherwise it's not "official".

Here's one article that seems to indicate otherwise:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072701313.html?nav=rss_technology/personaltech

Is anyone else worried that there may be a supply shortage of the 81 series? It seems strange that Samsung is keeping so quiet this close to launch and going with protected distribution policies for a tech that's supposed to beat everything else out there at a non-outrageous price.

Goto HP or Dell or any manufacturer site and you can still buy the standard matte screen.

Matte and Gloss finishing for photography existed together for many years....and you will see more Gloss LCD come out....I still prefer MatteThanks for the info, I'll check it out, as I'm in the market for a matte notebook.

Great reminder on the photography!!!!
Wouldn't you know it - I never chose matte for photographs, always glossy :o :o .

Do you know when the 71s are shipping? There a nice little store in NYC that has ordered them...


....since there's no Magnolia here in nyc, care to share Morpheze?

It seems strange that Samsung is keeping so quiet this close to launch and going with protected distribution policies for a tech that's supposed to beat everything else out there at a non-outrageous price.
Not really. It's new tech and they're not geared up to make many of them.

I believe they specifically asked them to check warehouse stock/SKU's, and not just in-store stock/SKU's. These models are not currently available in stores or being advertised on their Web sites, because they are not expected to be available in stores for about another month, and they will probably only be available through high-end retailers like Magnolia and Tweeter, and not through Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.

Went back to BB today and tried this advice, but no luck. It doesn't seem that I can convince this BB that these sets even exist. Being in the middle of nowhere NY it also makes it more difficult to get to a high end store. :/

Would it be really, really bad of me to order this thing through an online retailer?

I'm in the same boat as you. I custom built my entertainment unit to fit the 4665 plus a little give "in case the 81 was a little wider". Yet it's bigger than the 'little bigger' I set aside.

I hope that the extra width is just floating glass or plastic that can be removed with a little modification.

Yep, a Sawsall :eek:

Great reminder on the photography!!!!
Wouldn't you know it - I never chose matte for photographs, always glossy :o :o .

and you always did so because glossy yields you the more vibrant, more visually satisfying image.

sorry, you lobbed one over, how could one resist? :p


In a perfect retail world, they would have offered both glossy and matte 81's, but if it had to be one or the other, it makes sense that they chose glossy. They probably figure that for some one who is looking to make an 81 Series panel their next purchase, skipping over what most consumers would consider to be some already excellent LCD panels and instead going for top of the line, sparing little expense to get there, etc., the likelihood is higher that this type of consumer wants the absolute best image even if only by the relatively small degree, and is more likely to be willing to adapt his or her viewing environment to bring about that totally non-compromised image, i.e., drawing shades, dimming the room, re-orienting the panel direction away from light sources, etc., in order to achieve all that is absolutely possible from their viewing image.

Yep, I lobbed it over and it is true - the colors do have more pop on the glossy screens and glossy photos.

Your logic behind the marketing decision is sound, I did consider the fact that the very high contrast ratios can only be differentiated in a darkened environment, where glossy is not a problem, as a motivator. But I think your post really hits it.

I agree with everything you say here, nice post.

I've seen that article before, but it's as official as the articles that state that the 81 is not 120hz.
I hope it is, but until Samsung (or the TV) say or prove otherwise it's not "official".

Here's one article that seems to indicate otherwise:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072701313.html?nav=rss_technology/personaltech

I think its actually much different....one is a quote from a Samsung executive that was being interviewed. He gave specifics that it would have 120Hz but it would be a hybrid of sorts. That type of information is too specific to attributed as a quote, to not think its reliable.

The other article is just a journalististic segway to introduce the topic of LED technology. He could have easily said "if you are more concerned about contrast...then"

120Hz has been by far the most confusing spec of 81 Series since CES07. There has been so much, seemingly reliable, yet contradictory evidence on this that I don't know what the truth is anymore. The only sure thing is that the set will have some form of backlight scanning to address motion blur. However, there's nothing in the manual about 120Hz. In fact, the only refresh rate listed there is 60Hz.

And while we're on the subject of motion blur, it might be relevant to point out here that LEDs will achieve different levels of brightness by pulsing at frequencies well above refresh rates so I guess that means less image persistence automatically. I still think, though, that additional benefit could be gained by incorporating 120Hz into LED implementation. In order to eliminate all motion artifacts some form of motion interpolation would have to be added too probably. Maybe after these sets come out Samsung will finally explain what's in them exactly and how it all works.

I agree. At least with the 61/65 series, there was a choice. I wish Samsung would put out an 80 series which would be identical to the 81 series, but matte screen. That'd be my ideal HDTV, no doubt about it.

How many times do i have to say there was no 52" 61 series, so no , there wasn't a choice between the 61 & 65 series.

just stopped by my local visions store in canada and the sales person was saying about 6 months for the 81 series in canada :( im hoping he's wrong.

in the mean time, i saw the 46" w3000 next to the sammy 4665 and the w3000 looked breathtaking! this tv may be enough to make me stop waiting for the 81 series and go blow $3000 bucks. this is the first real lcd tv that looked truly life like and best of all, NO GLOSS!!!! after seeing it next to the sammy 65 series, i realized how much i prefer matte over gloss. anyways, hopefully the guy was wrong and i'll get a chance to check out the 81 in a couple of weeks :p

keep up the hunting guys! this thing has to show up sooner or later!!!

I wonder if the led flicker technique is going to increase eye strain....


either way i hope the 81's turn out good... the 40" would be awesome for the bedroom. $3k is kinda high but i should be able to get it for near cost so hopefully that saves some coin.

I wonder if the led flicker technique is going to increase eye strain....

If it does flickering at 120hz, then no, there will be no eye strain. If it does flickering at 60hz, then yes, there could be some eyestrain depending on how well it is implemented.

Let's hope the CEO quote is right. Imagine 1080p, 120hz, LED BL, BL scanning, and local dimming, all on the same set. I believe that would eliminate every single problem of LCD technology.

Only three weeks out; this is getting rather exciting. :D

If they want to keep motion blur to a minimum with just strobing the back light most likely they will keep the backlight on most the time, but turn it off briefly between frames when the LCD is changing images. This way your eye will not catch the in between state of the crystals. Much closer to a movie theater where they black out the light to move the frame so you do not catch the blur of the movie frame in motion. Depending how fast the crystals can move they could end up with 90% of the time with the backlight on.

Fascinating. The difference in backlight matrix resolution between 40'' and 70" pretty much explains why 40'' is listed as having 100K:1 CR while 70'' as having 500K:1. The zone numbers for different sizes clearly indicate Samsung is using the same-sized clusters for all sets (~4.3''x2.5'') and that the number of clusters depends on the panel size and cluster dimensions rather than on the ability to drive them. 70" at 16x12 has exactly 3X more clusters than 40" backlight at 8x8 and should be the most impressive display in the series. I guess with locally dimmed sets size will matter. No wonder it's being sold in Korea for $63K.


Lets please be careful in drawing conclusions that could potentially influence a forum member’s wallet. The specification sheet that I have shows all 81 models have the same 100K:1 dynamic contrast ratio.

From a technical perspective having more ‘zones’ will not significantly increase contrast ratio. Having more ‘zones’ just enables the panel to have more dynamic range control over the display area. Having more ‘zones’ does not affect the panels minimum and maximum candela output from which contrast ratio is based upon. Each every image that is displayed on a locally dimmed panel will be presented with a certain contrast ratio that falls within the maximum contrast ratio. The number of ‘zones’ increase the potential of presenting images with greater contrast. It really depends on the image being displayed on whether or not any discernable difference can be made with more ‘zones’.

Is anyone else worried that there may be a supply shortage of the 81 series? It seems strange that Samsung is keeping so quiet this close to launch and going with protected distribution policies for a tech that's supposed to beat everything else out there at a non-outrageous price.

If you are worried then just find a store you can preorder from that has a great return policy. Then there is nothing to worry about. To put it simply if you are in the market for a new LCD panel, the 81s fit your budget and you are not sure if it will work for your needs then preorder.

As to the potential for a supply side shortage there are too many unknown variables involved to draw any sound conclusion. Based on what we have heard so far it is possible.

Lets please be careful in drawing conclusions that could potentially influence a forum member’s wallet. The specification sheet that I have shows all 81 models have the same 100K:1 dynamic contrast ratio.From a technical perspective having more ‘zones’ will not significantly increase contrast ratio.
If you're referring to dynamic contrast, then yes, but even 70" is listed at 500K:1. I really doubt any of these numbers are correct anyway. The point is that ANSI contrast will increase proportionally with the number of clusters which, in turn, is proportional to size of a display. 70" will undoubtedly have higher ANSI contrast than 40" but how this difference will translate to the difference in PQ is unknown. My guess is there will be a discernible difference in favor of 70".

just stopped by my local visions store in canada and the sales person was saying about 6 months for the 81 series in canada :( im hoping he's wrong.

in the mean time, i saw the 46" w3000 next to the sammy 4665 and the w3000 looked breathtaking! this tv may be enough to make me stop waiting for the 81 series and go blow $3000 bucks. this is the first real lcd tv that looked truly life like and best of all, NO GLOSS!!!! after seeing it next to the sammy 65 series, i realized how much i prefer matte over gloss. anyways, hopefully the guy was wrong and i'll get a chance to check out the 81 in a couple of weeks :p

keep up the hunting guys! this thing has to show up sooner or later!!!
ALL I CAN SAY IS YOUR SALES PERSON AT VISIONS WAS SNIFFING GLUE IN THE BACK ROOM OR SOMETHING.I just pre ordered one at visions a 52" due in september first week or so.what city did you order from?

....since there's no Magnolia here in nyc, care to share Morpheze?

it seems that the best buy on 23st is building a magnolia section. I work a couple of blocks away. The construction is almost done.

I will be cool to see them.

There is also a Magnolia in Astoria / Long Island City, right off the R Train. so...yes we do have Magnolia in NYC. ;)

it seems that the best buy on 23st is building a magnolia section. I work a couple of blocks away. The construction is almost done.

I will be cool to see them.

There is also a Magnolia in Astoria / Long Island City, right off the R Train. so...yes we do have Magnolia in NYC. ;)

I was in the Best Buy on 5th avenue (around 44th street, I think) about a month ago. The guy there said that they were building a Magnolia section and it would be done by about now.

i saw the 46" w3000 next to the sammy 4665 and the w3000 looked breathtaking! this tv may be enough to make me stop waiting for the 81 series and go blow $3000 bucks. this is the first real lcd tv that looked truly life like and best of all, NO GLOSS!!!! after seeing it next to the sammy 65 series, i realized how much i prefer matte over gloss. anyways, hopefully the guy was wrong and i'll get a chance to check out the 81 in a couple of weeks :p

keep up the hunting guys! this thing has to show up sooner or later!!!

If you like the W3000, the XBR4 may be the way to go. Personally I'd invest the extra cash for 120Hz and whatever other benefits XBR gives you. XBR4 is also matte, right?

I was so excited to hear the 4681 coming in my price range (under $5k), I was convinced it'd be the set I'd buy. But the gloss... I definitely need some backup options to consider if the gloss is too much for me once I actually see it. I have a feeling it will be. :(

If you like the W3000, the XBR4 may be the way to go. Personally I'd invest the extra cash for 120Hz and whatever other benefits XBR gives you. XBR4 is also matte, right?

I was so excited to hear the 4681 coming in my price range (under $5k), I was convinced it'd be the set I'd buy. But the gloss... I definitely need some backup options to consider if the gloss is too much for me once I actually see it. I have a feeling it will be. :(
I believe XBR4 is matte while XBR5 is glossy.

Been away from AVS since Feb, what is the difference the 71 and 81 series? I'm reading through the whole topic, but its a little long and will take time. Thanks in advance.

I believe XBR4 is matte while XBR5 is glossy.

AFAIR, XBR 5 has a glossy bezel, not screen.

AFAIR, XBR 5 has a glossy bezel, not screen.

So both XBR4/5 are matte?

Been away from AVS since Feb, what is the difference the 71 and 81 series? I'm reading through the whole topic, but its a little long and will take time. Thanks in advance.
71 series no local dimming, conventional backlight. 25,000 to 1 contrast ratio. 81 series local dimming led with 100,000 to 1 contrast ratio.

So both XBR4/5 are matte?
yes, same screen

71 series no local dimming, conventional backlight. 25,000 to 1 contrast ratio. 81 series local dimming led with 100,000 to 1 contrast ratio.

as well as a lengthy discussion on whether the 81 will have 120 hz refresh, or just use its pulsing backlight to do the job of 120 hz.

I believe XBR4 is matte while XBR5 is glossy.

Could be wrong, but I thought, like the XBR2 and XBR3's, the only difference is that the XBR5 has a fixed bezel in a piano black finish whereas the 4's have a detached bezel you can get in different colors. Other than that the specs are the same.

Could be wrong, but I thought, like the XBR2 and XBR3's, the only difference is that the XBR5 has a fixed bezel in a piano black finish whereas the 4's have a detached bezel you can get in different colors. Other than that the specs are the same.

That's how it looked to me also when I looked through their specs, but it's odd that the XBR5 is actually more expensive with that being the only difference.

I'd think that there's something else that hasn't been updated in the specs as of yet (unless your just paying extra for the 5)

Edit: I just looked again and noticed that the XBR5 is both slimmer and lighter than the 4. Cut back on the floating glass maybe?

Been away from AVS since Feb, what is the difference the 71 and 81 series? I'm reading through the whole topic, but its a little long and will take time. Thanks in advance.
From EngadgetHD:
Samsung's finally launching its 71 and 81 series 1080p LCD HDTVs -- let's cut to the chase. The 71 series features Auto Motion Plus (i.e. 120Hz) 25,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio, CCFL backlight, three HDMI 1.3 ports, CEC HDMI, USB, ATSC / clear QAM tuner, 8ms response time, and lands next month in 40, 46, and 52-inch sizes (for $2700, $3400, and $4400).

The 81 series ups the ante with an LED backlight, bumping the contrast ratio to a measly 100,000:1, and also comes with 10-bit processing, 8ms response time, an ATSC / clear QAM tuner, CEC HDMI, USB, and also lands in August in 40, 46, 52, and 57-inch sizes( for $3000, $4000, $5000, and $7000, respectively).

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/11/samsung-announces-71-81-series-1080p-lcd-hdtvs/

That's how it looked to me also when I looked through their specs, but it's odd that the XBR5 is actually more expensive with that being the only difference.

I'd think that there's something else that hasn't been updated in the specs as of yet (unless your just paying extra for the 5)

Edit: I just looked again and noticed that the XBR5 is both slimmer and lighter than the 4. Cut back on the floating glass maybe?

Well, there's this port on the XBR5: RS232 Control * x1 (Home Theater Installation Control Capabilities). And the warranty is longer (18 months vs 12).

Now, can we back to the 81 series? :D

Is there any mention on this series of LCD's of any scaling technology to better be able to display standard def content?

To me this is the biggest problem with any of the LCD's I've seen. Compression artifacts are also much more visible on LCD vs. any other display device.

I remember when my HD camera came out - the HVX200 - people were freaking out because the video it shot was so noisey - and it turns out they were all looking at the images on LCD monitors. WHen I looked at the stuff I shot on a broadcast CRT monitor and my DLP they looked great with little artifacts or noise.

LCDs display dot for dot with incredible clarity, so chances are good that the noise was probably present in your feed, just hidden by the DLP and CRT techs as there is ZERO reason for any LCD to introduce noise into a HD feed excepting a huge defect or signal issue. LCDs also tend to have light blacks, making low level noise more visible.

If you are interested in an LCD with a very high quality SD scaler, look at the Olevia 747i or use an HTPC or dedicated scaling box to upsample SD for a display with a weak scaler.

That's how it looked to me also when I looked through their specs, but it's odd that the XBR5 is actually more expensive with that being the only difference.

I'd think that there's something else that hasn't been updated in the specs as of yet (unless your just paying extra for the 5)

Edit: I just looked again and noticed that the XBR5 is both slimmer and lighter than the 4. Cut back on the floating glass maybe?

The XBR2 and XBR3's also had a price difference of about $300 to $500 and the only difference was the bezels. From what I've read it's the same with the 4's and 5's. Now there might be a weight and thickness difference due to the bezels and how they attach, but I've always understood that other than that they were the same. In fact one article I read questioned why anyone would pay that much more for a piano finish on the bezel when you could get a matte black finish on the XBR4's. But some folks just like to pay extra to get that black lacquer look.

Getting back to the Sammy 81's I was just contacted by the high end video store I frequent and they said that the 81's will ship the last week of August and be in their store set up the first week in Sept. This confirms other reports.

Went to local BB today with a Magnolia in it. Spoke to sales person who was playing with the new denon 4308, looked nice. Anyways I had him look up 5281 and he said IN store on 8/26/07. That was at chandler, AZ, USA. Price in the system was 4999.99. I did not pre-order as I will wait to see it in person.

Was at my BB in Illinois today and they made a call to check on the 81 for me and they said I could order it today and delivery was Sept.5, guarantied!

I want the 40in one and hope it drops down to $2,000 pretty quickly.Isn't the 40in 81 Series Samsung $3,000?.Thats too much,and would anyone actually notice the 1080p on a TV that size?.

I want the 40in one and hope it drops down to $2,000 pretty quickly.Isn't the 40in 81 Series Samsung $3,000?.Thats too much,and would anyone actually notice the 1080p on a TV that size?.

Doubtful from a regular sitting position, but 1080p is just icing, the real reason to get the 81 is the LED and LD...and they aren't gonna make 1080i ones, so why worry bout it. :)

How many times do i have to say there was no 52" 61 series, so no , there wasn't a choice between the 61 & 65 series.

Okay, there was a choice for every size but one. I don't understand your point. :confused:

Doubtful from a regular sitting position, but 1080p is just icing, the real reason to get the 81 is the LED and LD...and they aren't gonna make 1080i ones, so why worry bout it. :)Hey what is LD?.And one more question,how much better is a HDTV with the LED and 120Hz than the one's without like the LN4665F models?.

Hey what is LD?.And one more question,how much better is a HDTV with the LED and 120Hz than the one's without like the LN4665F models?.

LD is local dimming, there's a ton of info on it in this thread. Basically the backlight is broken into numerous zones which lighten & dim independantly, so a black area of the screen recieves no backlighting. Nobody's seen the TV so we dont know how much better the LED is. In existing sets, 120hz cleans up motion blur if implemented correctly, but there is some question weather or not the 81 is a 120hz set or if they clean up motion blur by strobing the LED backlight.

If you are worried then just find a store you can preorder from that has a great return policy. Then there is nothing to worry about. To put it simply if you are in the market for a new LCD panel, the 81s fit your budget and you are not sure if it will work for your needs then preorder.

As to the potential for a supply side shortage there are too many unknown variables involved to draw any sound conclusion. Based on what we have heard so far it is possible.

I guess you could say I'm not really in the market at this point, but if I see this TV and it looks really great, I may get into the market really quickly :p .

So no preorder for me.

Does anyone know if the 81 Series will drop in price just as much as the 65 series or will you only be able to find them like $500 off at the most?

Does anyone know if the 81 Series will drop in price just as much as the 65 series or will you only be able to find them like $500 off at the most?

Technology prices go down....the 81 however is being sold to only upscale dealers....which likely means supply is constrained....and they think they can sell for a premium until the next competitor comes out with theirs. Looks like they have a good 6 months at least.

Nowhere in the manual does the 81 show 120 Hz, whereas the 71 manual does.

However, these descriptions of each of their features are identical, but doesn't
really say what their performance numbers are when enabled.

81 series
LED Motion Plus -> On / Off
Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.

LED SmartLighting
Controls LED backlight to maximize picture clarity.

VESA using D-Sub input

1280 x 1024 = 75.025 Hz
1920 x 1080 = 60.000 Hz

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The 71 manual shows 120 Hz in the menus, but this description is the same as above:

71 Series
Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz -> Low / Medium / High

Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.

So, is the 120 Hz on the 71 not a native feature? Dynamic Hz ??

CadJoe

Technology prices go down....the 81 however is being sold to only upscale dealers....which likely means supply is constrained....and they think they can sell for a premium until the next competitor comes out with theirs. Looks like they have a good 6 months at least.
Way less than 6 months, I figure 2 1/2 months tops. Competitors have some great tvs coming out soon. Not saying theyre goning to be better or worse than the 81 series, but there will be competition.

Okay, there was a choice for every size but one. I don't understand your point. :confused:


The point was when the 61 and 65 series first came out there were many people who, for various reasons, couldn't or didn't want a glossy screen. Many of those same people preferred the 52" over the 46". Samsung chose not to make a 52" in matte swaying many people towards other brands since those people didn't have a choice .

I want the 40in one and hope it drops down to $2,000 pretty quickly.Isn't the 40in 81 Series Samsung $3,000?.Thats too much,and would anyone actually notice the 1080p on a TV that size?.

Yes. The LN-T4081F is $3000 MSRP.

In terms of seeing detail in 1080p on the 40" it is possible. Depends on your viewing distance. Optimal viewing distance is around 3'-5'. It is actually perfect for a computer monitor which is my intended use.

The point was when the 61 and 65 series first came out there were many people who, for various reasons, couldn't or didn't want a glossy screen. Many of those same people preferred the 52" over the 46". Samsung chose not to make a 52" in matte swaying many people towards other brands since those people didn't have a choice .Exactly right, and to respond to Raptor I decided to settle for a 4661 instead of shopping for other brands, it's worked out alright, though I wish Sammy had made the 5261 like they said they would back in January. The 52" size is very popular, not just trivial to exclude it from the offering.

Looks like the Toshiba and the Mitsubishi (has CableCARD) may be options coming on line now at 52" matte.

It looks like "LED motion plus" is what they call the LED anti-judder flickering feature. It makes sense that you can turn this on or off, since it presumably fixes judder but at the cost of some brightness.

Exactly right, and to respond to Raptor I decided to settle for a 4661 instead of shopping for other brands, it's worked out alright, though I wish Sammy had made the 5261 like they said they would back in January. The 52" size is very popular, not just trivial to exclude it from the offering.

Looks like the Toshiba and the Mitsubishi (has CableCARD) may be options coming on line now at 52" matte.

Hmmmm, I guess the 52" size is more popular than I thought. So even then, Samsung was forcing glossy down (some of) our throats. :(

Any help on why my post of around 1215am was deleted.

Thanks in advance,

RC

It was regarding the purchase price of a 4681.

RC

http://i19.tinypic.com/6ewtezp

http://i12.tinypic.com/4yqcdap

8x8 or 64 dimming zones. 1000:1 native panel. Year 2006 ;)

8x8 or 64 dimming zones. 1000:1 native panel. Year 2006 ;)This is so cool. How do you find this stuff? Keep it coming. :)

why do not all the BB's take preorders of the 81 series. I live in nyc and none around here take preorders, I have a 12% off rewards coupon that I could use also.

http://syphaonline.com/SYPHAnewsitems2006/SYPHAnews20060614-02.html?www.dailytech.com
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2860
http://www.ecinemasys.com/news/LED%20Backlight%20Technical%20Intro.pdf
http://www.ecinemasystems.com/products/dpx/dpx.html

This is another example of the kind of performance made possible by the use of LED backlight and local dimming. 81s are using very similar technology as eCinema's "CRT-replacement LCD" which means 81s should produce similar results.

All I can figure was either some business relationship issues with BB or a competitor, or it was too long, wrong forum, or...? I have no idea.The mods don't allow posting prices.

The mods don't allow posting prices.
Only MSRP.

http://syphaonline.com/SYPHAnewsitems2006/SYPHAnews20060614-02.html?www.dailytech.com
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2860
http://www.ecinemasys.com/news/LED%20Backlight%20Technical%20Intro.pdf
http://www.ecinemasystems.com/products/dpx/dpx.html

This is another example of the kind of performance made possible by the use of LED backlight and local dimming. 81s are using very similar technology as eCinema's "CRT-replacement LCD" which means 81s should produce similar results.

Are they actually selling these? Most of the site is "under construction"

Update: Ah...found one on Ebay for $6500...23" and 15ms response time...strange...nobody is bidding :)

Are they actually selling these? Most of the site is "under construction"

Update: Ah...found one on Ebay for $6500...23" and 15ms response time...strange...nobody is bidding :)I almost bought it but realized in time that in 3 weeks I could buy 40" set with a similar grayscale for $3K. Man, that was a close call. :)

I see. No MSRP's. Ok, I edited my last post (deleted final sale price) and only referenced the amount of the discount. Hopefully that will stick. Otherwise, the "12% off" coupon info should help anyone considering pre-ordering before Monday, whether its the 81 series, XBR5's or whatever.

Thanks for the tips.

The "cinematic" 24fps playback capability info from the Sony XBR site is interesting. How important is this, and will the 81 series replicate any perceived gain in performance? How often is this format used?

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665153947

RC

This is something i been thinking.When new HDTV's come out,CNET buys them and then they review them and give them a score,after calibration and all that testing.But how long does it take a site like CNET to actually post up the review on these new HDTV's?.Like when the LNT4665F came out,took cnet about 2 months to finally show a review on that TV.Why can't they do this very quickly like in 2 weeks after the set comes out,cause for someone like me,i like to see if it's editors choice or close until i actually buy the TV.Just too long to wait.

I see. No MSRP's. Ok, I edited my last post (deleted final sale price) and only referenced the amount of the discount. Hopefully that will stick. Otherwise, the "12% off" coupon info should help anyone considering pre-ordering before Monday, whether its the 81 series, XBR5's or whatever.


I hope this message does stick. I just got back from Magnolia, and some of the TV's can be pre-ordered. I want to know how to get the "12% off" coupon...

Thanks!

can you pre-order the 81series tvs

I almost bought it but realized in time that in 3 weeks I could buy 40" set with a similar grayscale for $3K. Man, that was a close call. :)

well see i dunno, all that ecinema stuff was supposed to make us feel jazzed for the upcoming samsung, except they arent the exact same thing. ecinema did make claims to be besting CRT with its tech, only problem is that it wont be the exact same thing in the new 81 necesarily.

Which brings me to my next point, i had confirmed that LCD's specifically with their constant full backlight do indeed output a greater level of brightness and that hurt the eyes, especially in the dark. This is why even when they look dimmer than a standard CRT, it still is harder for ones eyes to get accustomed to it.

What i want to know is though will the Samsungs local dimming improve upon this, and the "glare" will be closer to CRT, so i dont need to dim the backlight extremely low (and make it look darker than most other displays) to make it less glary on my eyes?

-this is something i probably wont be able to test in a store and will only be something that soimeone that understands this problem and how the new set works can confrim, or i suppose someone that understands the issue and buys it could confirm.

local BBs here in Nebraska cant preorder anything.

I think only bbs with a magnolia dept can, but it is strange that one bb with a magnolia dept will preorder the 81 series tvs for you while another bb with a magnolia dept wont.

I've spoke today with my local Canadian dialer. 81s are in computer with availability in September (presumably at the end). Canadian MSRPs are $500 more for each model. Service plan prices are TBD because of absence of LED BL service experience.

I see. No MSRP's. Ok, I edited my last post (deleted final sale price) and only referenced the amount of the discount. Hopefully that will stick. Otherwise, the "12% off" coupon info should help anyone considering pre-ordering before Monday, whether its the 81 series, XBR5's or whatever.



Well for the most part your story holds no water....why? You saved 580 using a 12 % coupon ....which grinding the math means the original price would have been 4833. That number is well over any MSRP.

Then there is entire thing were they are not available for sale.

So while some may think the moderators took out your message....its simply far more likey you hit Preview....thought it was uploaded....and then never truly uploaded.

Anyway around....useless

This is something i been thinking.When new HDTV's come out,CNET buys them and then they review them and give them a score,after calibration and all that testing.But how long does it take a site like CNET to actually post up the review on these new HDTV's?.Like when the LNT4665F came out,took cnet about 2 months to finally show a review on that TV.Why can't they do this very quickly like in 2 weeks after the set comes out,cause for someone like me,i like to see if it's editors choice or close until i actually buy the TV.Just too long to wait.Yes, it's annoying how long it takes them to review the new stuff. I don't expect CNET to review 81 Series any time soon, if at all. Frankly, I'm hoping we could get first reviews/impressions from someone attending IFA07 in 3 weeks. Both 71s & 81s will be shown there for the first time.

Well for the most part your story holds no water....why? You saved 580 using a 12 % coupon ....which grinding the math means the original price would have been 4833. That number is well over any MSRP.

I don't remember much of the post, so the actual figure I can't vouch for


Then there is entire thing were they are not available for sale.

He was talking about pre order...


So while some may think the moderators took out your message....its simply far more likey you hit Preview....thought it was uploaded....and then never truly uploaded.


I saw it before I went to bed last night, it was one lengthy one too. So it was posted.

I see. No MSRP's. Ok, I edited my last post (deleted final sale price) and only referenced the amount of the discount. Hopefully that will stick. Otherwise, the "12% off" coupon info should help anyone considering pre-ordering before Monday, whether its the 81 series, XBR5's or whatever.
RCYep I deleted your post and just deleted another for a price at Amazon on a set.

Coupon, discount, and pricing discussion and retail links are not allowed. This applies to ALL vendors as well as forum sponsors.

MSRP is fine.

Also folks, all this coupon discussion needs to end from here on out.

Thanks

For you Canadians out there, prices are in the future shop computers for the 71 and 81 series. My friends going to work tomorrow and im gonna call him and get him to give me all the prices and cost prices (so you know what to bargin for heh). ITs not looking good tho because my friend said he remembers that the 46" was above $3000 COST price. Which means for regular joes its gonna be like $4000+ CAD for a 4681. Thats not good at all. Nearly DOUBLE the price of a 4661f

If you guys wanna know the prices, just visit a FS and ask a home theater employee to check the system and give you a price. Ill post the sku #s tomorrow so you can just give them that to make it easier

For you Canadians out there, prices are in the future shop computers for the 71 and 81 series. My friends going to work tomorrow and im gonna call him and get him to give me all the prices and cost prices (so you know what to bargin for heh). ITs not looking good tho because my friend said he remembers that the 46" was above $3000 COST price. Which means for regular joes its gonna be like $4000+ CAD for a 4681. Thats not good at all. Nearly DOUBLE the price of a 4661f

If you guys wanna know the prices, just visit a FS and ask a home theater employee to check the system and give you a price. Ill post the sku #s tomorrow so you can just give them that to make it easier


What did you expect the price of the 46" 81 to be? We have already got a American MSRP of $4000 US on this model. I am just hoping the Canadian prices don't stray too much higher than that.

What did you expect the price of the 46" 81 to be? We have already got a American MSRP of $4000 US on this model. I am just hoping the Canadian prices don't stray too much higher than that.

$4000 USD MSRP, but online deals and stores im sure it can be had for $3000. Personalyl I was hoping to get a 46" 81 series for $3000 CAD using my friends staff discount. This may be possible, but not until Christmas time. I may be willing to wait however, since last year when I too was working at FS, I noticed around november, prcies droped dramatically on ALL tvs, and many where special drops just for the holidays and went back up after. Im hoping by november i can easily grab an 81 for a good price.

I actually read about his tv in popular science as one that has really good contrast levels and deep blacks. I don't have the time to read through 95+ pages to see what the release date is in the US. If it comes out in 2 or 3 weeks I'll wait for it, but if it doesn't come out for another 3 months I'll by the current samsung for a lot less.

Yes, it's annoying how long it takes them to review the new stuff. I don't expect CNET to review 81 Series any time soon, if at all. Frankly, I'm hoping we could get first reviews/impressions from someone attending IFA07 in 3 weeks. Both 71s & 81s will be shown there for the first time.

Well Cnet must not take too long since with the Sony XBR'2 they managed to review one back when all the sets were cloud free ;)

Anyhow, isnt there any other good television review place aside from cnet that we can watch for? anyone know of any?

Viewed HP notebooks today, all had glossy screens. Scientist colleague just got a new MAC, matte screen. His logic, basically as mine - why put up with the distractions, especially as the computer is for scientific work and some internet, not games. Don't know if HP makes matte or not, if not bye bye HP.

Deal breaker - that is the whole problem with glossy screens. For the gloss fan boys around, let's realize that

gloss is excluding a segment of the population, just like DLP.

Let's face it - if Samsung had not introduced gloss the same people would still be around here.

How many really would not buy a Samsung if it was matte only? Very few, I suspect.

I totally respect what you are saying, I have moved and now have a window right in back of me facing the screen. annoying yes but fixable with a black drape shade to block out the sun. What the hell I'm a vampire anyway . lol

I agree there should be a choice of gloss or matte.

If it was matte only, then I would NOT buy the 81 series.

If it was matte only, then I would NOT buy the 81 series.
Yeah me too. Matte is so bla bla. I love how people think samsung is excluding them by making gloss. Go buy a sony, sharp, or something else. There is more than one tv out there to buy. The FACT is that you know the gloss makes the picture and it pisses you off so much that it doesnt work for you or your too lazy to hang some curtains to make it work. STFU about the gloss, go buy something else.

Yeah me too. Matte is so bla bla. I love how people think samsung is excluding them by making gloss. Go buy a sony, sharp, or something else. There is more than one tv out there to buy. The FACT is that you know the gloss makes the picture and it pisses you off so much that it doesnt work for you or your too lazy to hang some curtains to make it work. STFU about the gloss, go buy something else.
You know somebody which we will not name here will give his whining about glossy panel again. :rolleyes:

sku (product number you can use to check store stock) for the 4081 at BEstBuy FS
is..10092636 (got it no thanks to 007craft :mad: :D )
I shall post the minute they arrive in the warehouse
as of now there a few in transit

sku (product number you can use to check store stock) for the 4081 at BEstBuy FS
is..10092636 (got it no thanks to 007craft :mad: :D )
I shall post the minute they arrive in the warehouse
as of now there a few in transit

Do they have an estimated arrival time at FS?

In transit means that they are on the truck. If the warehouse gets it tomorrow or the day after then that means they will be in the Store VERY SOON. Can't wait :D

Do they have an estimated arrival time at FS?

nnnoope
they never do on the system
im guessing itl be a week after you see them on US Best Buy shelves

In transit means that they are on the truck. If the warehouse gets it tomorrow or the day after then that means they will be in the Store VERY SOON. Can't wait :D

man when i was waiting for the 4065f it said in transit for ages
i got it like a month after the 61s came out

LOL. I guess it must have been a really slow ass truck. ;)

I stopped by bby today and they said it could be pre-ordered but wouldnt be delivered till around the beginning of september. He checked the computers and that was what is said for the 81 series.

Best buy magnolia center SKU for the 81 series is 8458509 if you guys wanted to know for the 46" US version. Delivery in store date of September 5 but they usually get it sooner then the predicted date.

how many people here have already pre-ordered a 81series, just wondering

after seeing the prices I just cant decide if I can afford to go 46". Does any1 have the exact measurements of the 40" and 46" 81 series and 71 series (screen AND bezel). I got a bunch of cardboard im throwing out so im gonna cut out a scale model to see how big it is. Yes call me crazy, but i would much rather do this then buy a 40" and find it out its much to small or a 46" and find its much to big.

So any1 got measurements?

after seeing the prices I just cant decide if I can afford to go 46". Does any1 have the exact measurements of the 40" and 46" 81 series and 71 series (screen AND bezel). I got a bunch of cardboard im throwing out so im gonna cut out a scale model to see how big it is. Yes call me crazy, but i would much rather do this then buy a 40" and find it out its much to small or a 46" and find its much to big.

So any1 got measurements?

46" With Stand
* Width: 48.3"
* Height: 29.6"
* Depth: 12.6"

40" With Stand
* Width: 43.7"
* Height: 26.6"
* Depth: 11.4"

how many people here have already pre-ordered a 81series, just wondering

I did.

after seeing the prices I just cant decide if I can afford to go 46". Does any1 have the exact measurements of the 40" and 46" 81 series and 71 series (screen AND bezel). I got a bunch of cardboard im throwing out so im gonna cut out a scale model to see how big it is. Yes call me crazy, but i would much rather do this then buy a 40" and find it out its much to small or a 46" and find its much to big.

So any1 got measurements?
It also depends on how far you are when you watch the tv too.

me too for 52"

Does any1 have the exact measurements of the 40" and 46" 81 series and 71 series (screen AND bezel). So any1 got measurements?

Interesting that the books ONLY show the 57 in the 81 series, not the 71.

5781 WithOUT Stand
* Width: 58"
* Height: 32.7"
* Depth: 4.8"
* Weight: 100.97 lbs


5281 WithOUT Stand
* Width: 54"
* Height: 30.7"
* Depth: 4.7"
* Weight: 81 lbs


4681 WithOUT Stand
* Width: 48.3"
* Height: 27"
* Depth: 4.4"
* Weight: 65.7 lbs

4081 WithOUT Stand
* Width: 43.7"
* Height: 23.9"
* Depth: 4"
* Weight: 49.1 lbs

---------------------------------------------------------

5271 WithOUT Stand

* Width: 53.8"
* Height: 30.7"
* Depth: 4.7"
* Weight: 70.11 lbs


4671 WithOUT Stand
* Width: 48.1"
* Height: 27"
* Depth: 4.4"
* Weight: 61 lbs

4071 WithOUT Stand
* Width: 43.1"
* Height: 23.9"
* Depth: 4"
* Weight: 43.65 lbs



CadJoe

I am curious on how 81 will compare to XBR4.... Very strange that 32XBR4 but none has posted reviews yet. 40xbr4 is for sale from sony and circuitcity right now

I am curious on how 81 will compare to XBR4.... Very strange that 32XBR4 but none has posted reviews yet. 40xbr4 is for sale from sony and circuitcity right now
it wont
xbr4 is in a lower league than even the 61series :p
specs wise that is

xbr5 compete with the 71series
kinda outdo the 65

81 higher league

there is no way you could compare the 61series to the sony xbr4. I think the xbr4 would blow it away.

:p there is no way you could compare the 61series to the sony xbr4. I think the xbr4 would blow it away.
wholey shhhhhhhiiiT
i may have mixed up something here

you are indeed right xbr4\5 is better thAN the 61\65(comes a little closer)
71 is its competition which has 500more native contrast and they both are 120hz
so it should be a pretty close battle

81s we'll just have to see if this technology does what it promises to

well they say it is supposed to be out in August... but no info is found anywhere. There is more info about XBR4... I think i will wait till people try 81 and xbr4 and post results.

Yeah me too. Matte is so bla bla. ...
Ha, Ha, like the Sharp d92 matte is bla bla? Not exactly ...
Some of us would like to see how this thing performs, gloss or not.
Of course, we already know what we will see in a lit room with an 81 ... reflections :D.

xbr4 is in a lower league than even the 61series
specs wise that is

Specs wise, the XBR2/3 were in a lower league than Samsung's entry level bargain lines last year. Aside from the clouding issues though, they were almost unanimously considered the best LCD displays of the year by a metric mile. It's no secret that panel specs are almost entirely unregulated and non-standardized. Even if they were, there's still more to image quality than resolution or contrast ratio. That said, I fully expect the 81 to blow the XBR4/5 completely out of the water.

Specs wise, the XBR2/3 were in a lower league than Samsung's entry level bargain lines last year. Aside from the clouding issues though, they were almost unanimously considered the best LCD displays of the year by a metric mile. It's no secret that panel specs are almost entirely unregulated and non-standardized. Even if they were, there's still more to image quality than resolution or contrast ratio. That said, I fully expect the 81 to blow the XBR4/5 completely out of the water.
even if it doesnt and the 81s are a bit better samsung wins by a mile, with sonys prices that are similar to the 81s and they are not even LED backlight.
Sony really has to do something about there prices

Sony really has to do something about there prices
With all the fan boys in this forum, yea, they need to raise them :confused: .

Ha, Ha, like the Sharp d92 matte is bla bla? Not exactly ...
Some of us would like to see how this thing performs, gloss or not.
Of course, we already know what we will see in a lit room with an 81 ... reflections :D.
Been there done that returned it, remind me what was so great about this tv(d92), my 37inch samsung from costco looks better. Yeah what's up with sony's prices? Looks like there are only 2 next gen LCD's in the running and that will be the sony xbr 4/5 and the 71/81 sammy's. I do agree with the most here that the 71 seems to be on par with the xbr 4/5 with the 81 in a league of it's own for the moment. Wish the guy would review his freakn tv on the xbr 4/5 owners thread allready so that we can have a nice pros/con comparison once the 71/81's come out. Im going to buy one of these 4 but leaning towards, in order, the 81, 71, xbr 4/5.

I dont know if i can buy any of them if that glare i experienced with my eyes not adjusting to it was LCD exclusive because of the unblocked constant backlight.

then again the 81's selected lit up screen may help that issue.

future shop best buy pricing for the LNT81 57" 9000.00 .....52" 5500.00.... 46" 4500.00 .the 57 is totaly out of the question for me.even with my discount for installers its still over 8000.00with tax.


Wow, that's crazy. Especially considering I can get a 58 inch Panny 1080p plasma for about a third the cost.

With all the fan boys in this forum, yea, they need to raise them :confused: .
uuhhh they need to drop em
they are priced as high as the 81series
and they are clearly competition for the 71series

I dont know what youre getting at with the Fanboy stuff
Mr.Matte, but you have no idea how much of a sony fanboy I am. I sold two ps3s first day for 2700 I pay as much respect to that company as I possibly can, Im not rich like some people here that money doesnt come easy and Im a student. However there prices are ridiculous to say the least, and thus my point is the prices should be lowerd.

I know sony has issues with clouding and green blobs, but what are the samsung issues?
its between the XBR5 46 and the 46 81 for me

I am hesitant in purchasing the 81 LED series. I am a firm believer that you should not buy a vehicle with new technology the first year because it has not been thoroughly tested and all of the possible bugs have not come to light. After the first year the manufacturer is aware of most bugs and has made corrections. I believe this is also true about electronics. Because of this philosophy I am at a cross roads between the Sony XBR4, 46 inch and the Samsung 4671. If what I have read in this forum is true that it will be in store by the beginning of Sept. I will wait to make a side by side comparison and make my decision then.

Basically these two sets are similar in technology at which point it would just be a decision based on personal preference.

...what's up with sony's prices? Looks like there are only 2 next gen LCD's in the running and that will be the sony xbr 4/5 and the 71/81 sammy's...
Interesting. None of these are on my short list. You must know something I don't since we seem to agree on prices.

I am hesitant in purchasing the 81 LED series. I am a firm believer that you should not buy a vehicle with new technology the first year because it has not been thoroughly tested and all of the possible bugs have not come to light. After the first year the manufacturer is aware of most bugs and has made corrections. I believe this is also true about electronics. Because of this philosophy I am at a cross roads between the Sony XBR4, 46 inch and the Samsung 4671. If what I have read in this forum is true that it will be in store by the beginning of Sept. I will wait to make a side by side comparison and make my decision then.

Basically these two sets are similar in technology at which point it would just be a decision based on personal preference.

This isn't new technology. LCD has been around for a while now, and it is a very mature display technology. Samsung is just improving upon the existing LCD tech by fixing some of its flaws.

A new display technology would be something like SED or laser, but with or without an LED backlight, LCD is still LCD.

I am hesitant in purchasing the 81 LED series. I am a firm believer that you should not buy a vehicle with new technology the first year because it has not been thoroughly tested and all of the possible bugs have not come to light. After the first year the manufacturer is aware of most bugs and has made corrections. I believe this is also true about electronics. Because of this philosophy I am at a cross roads between the Sony XBR4, 46 inch and the Samsung 4671. If what I have read in this forum is true that it will be in store by the beginning of Sept. I will wait to make a side by side comparison and make my decision then.

Basically these two sets are similar in technology at which point it would just be a decision based on personal preference.

I do agree

however the 81series isnt completely new technology, it is a big step forward which is why I wouldnt pre-order this set. Gonna hang out untill user reviews are in here.

I am curious on how 81 will compare to XBR4.... Very strange that 32XBR4 but none has posted reviews yet. 40xbr4 is for sale from sony and circuitcity right now

The 32 XBR 4 is only 1366 x 768 giving the highest of 720p. The newer XBR4/5 coming out will have higher resolution giving 1080p.

Don't let the "XBR" fool you.

Would somebody be able to comment why Sony come up with 10bit panel for all new V, W and XBRs and new Sammy 71 and 81 are still 8 bit?

Would somebody be able to comment why Sony come up with 10bit panel for all new V, W and XBRs and new Sammy 71 and 81 are still 8 bit?How do you know it's 8 bit?

The 32 XBR 4 is only 1366 x 768 giving the highest of 720p. The newer XBR4/5 coming out will have higher resolution giving 1080p.

Don't let the "XBR" fool you.
The XBR designation has nothing to do with the resolution, it refers to the components inside

Would somebody be able to comment why Sony come up with 10bit panel for all new V, W and XBRs and new Sammy 71 and 81 are still 8 bit?
The spec sheets identify them both as 10 bit panels! Where did you get that they are 8 bit?

I'll attached the 81 as proof but the 71 states the same thing - as being 10 bit.

Right Click and open in new window to open.

I am hesitant in purchasing the 81 LED series. I am a firm believer that you should not buy a vehicle with new technology the first year because it has not been thoroughly tested and all of the possible bugs have not come to light. After the first year the manufacturer is aware of most bugs and has made corrections. I believe this is also true about electronics. Because of this philosophy I am at a cross roads between the Sony XBR4, 46 inch and the Samsung 4671. If what I have read in this forum is true that it will be in store by the beginning of Sept. I will wait to make a side by side comparison and make my decision then.

Basically these two sets are similar in technology at which point it would just be a decision based on personal preference.

Well in this market, you'll never end up with a tv since every manufacture has a new line with new tech every year?

My guess is that samsung is waiting for this thread to hit 100 pages before it is released. :)

The spec sheets identify them both as 10 bit panels! Where did you get that they are 8 bit?

I'll attached the 81 as proof but the 71 states the same thing - as being 10 bit.

Right Click and open in new window to open.

Scuza me, I did not ask re processing. I am well aware that processing in 65s, 71s and 81s is 10 bit. I've asked about 10 bit panel. All new Sony have 10 bit peocessing and 10 bit panel. AFAIK Sammy still using 8 bit panels. Will be glad to be mistaken...

My guess is that samsung is waiting for this thread to hit 100 pages before it is released. :)

TWO more pages then It's out :eek: :eek:

Yeah me too. Matte is so bla bla. I love how people think samsung is excluding them by making gloss. Go buy a sony, sharp, or something else. There is more than one tv out there to buy. The FACT is that you know the gloss makes the picture and it pisses you off so much that it doesnt work for you or your too lazy to hang some curtains to make it work. STFU about the gloss, go buy something else.

I'm not pissed off about the gloss making the picture better, I'm pissed off about LED backlighting making the picture better and only being available in gloss.

For movies I agree, it's nicer to draw the shades and darken the room. But what about popping on for a quick video game or TV show? The reflections would be obnoxious and distracting, but on the other hand I don't want to live in the dark all the time. Matte saves me those hassles, and without taking much from PQ in my eye.

Anyway, I just want a choice. I have no problem with other people having glossy sets. If the gloss isn't too bad when I see this in stores, I might go with it myself, since the windows are all behind the TV in my living room. If it's very bad, I may go buy something else... but so far nobody's offered everything I want in an HDTV. :(

I wonder when they'll show up in The Netherlands. Can't wait! I want to see my HDR-SR8 recordings on the big screen.

The spec sheets identify them both as 10 bit panels! Where did you get that they are 8 bit?

I'll attached the 81 as proof but the 71 states the same thing - as being 10 bit.

Right Click and open in new window to open.

Sorry I don't have a link for you but there has been some discussion that the Samsungs feature 10-bit processing (just as your linked pdf states) but only 8-bit panels while the Sonys feature 10-bit processing and 10-bit panels. Probably a moot point for the forseeable future though, the only place I see where the Sonys have a clear advantage on paper over the Samsungs is via their inclusion of a 1080/24p mode which the Samsungs unfortunately lack.

Anybody read Sharp's recent filing? Hopefully this isn't over the LED backlight technology and doubly hopefully it won't delay the 81's delivery date.

Are you certain about no 1080p24 support? Hopefully they just forgot to mention it, I dont trust pulldown nearly as much as I would a straight 24p source. Shucks.

The XBR designation has nothing to do with the resolution, it refers to the components inside

I just didn't want people to think the XBR is always the top of the line.

I won't believe much of anything said about the new XBRs or the 71/81 series until they're actually in stores but nothing I've seen regarding the 81 series has ever included any mention of a 1080/24p mode. That's not a deal breaker for me but given the price point of the 81s if it's missing it is a bit disappointing.

I'd be shocked if Samsungs top-of-the-line TV didn't handle 1080p24 properly. But I've been shocked before so...

What I find frustrating is, to my knowledge, there has been no official acknowledgment or anouncment of the existence and final specs of the 81 series. Its all third party sources, why the **** is Samsung so quiet, it helps them none, it just causes people to speculate and decide to go with Sony instead.

[QUOTE]What I find frustrating is, to my knowledge, there has been no official acknowledgment or anouncment of the existence and final specs of the 81 series. Its all third party sources, why the **** is Samsung so quiet, it helps them none, it just causes people to speculate and decide to go with Sony instead.

I agree, Samsung has not updated the information on their website. No official information has been posted and if Samsung is due to be in stores in a few weeks as per this forum then they are at a diadvantage, because we know what is up and coming from Sony, but not Sammy. How can we start making educational camprisons based on speculations!

What I find frustrating is, to my knowledge, there has been no official acknowledgment or anouncment of the existence and final specs of the 81 series. Its all third party sources, why the **** is Samsung so quiet, it helps them none, it just causes people to speculate and decide to go with Sony instead.

It's been suggested that they dont want to torpedo the sales of their current models...but thats what I thought price increases were for. Generally the only reason anyone buys last years model of anything is cause the brand new stuff is at a premium price.

In their defense, this has been a pretty popular thread, and only because of all the conjecture, guesstimating and arguing because there is ZERO official announcement.
I bet a lot of people here are more excited than they would be with official info, because fantasy always trumps reality!

[QUOTE]I bet a lot of people here are more excited than they would be with official info, because fantasy always trumps reality!

You make a good point. But for those of us who are currently in the market to make a purchase in the next few weeks like I am, I don't like to make a $4K investment on last minute information, or make a decision today and then tomorrow something comes out and then start kicking my self in the ***, because I should have just waited a few more weeks. :mad:

[QUOTE]I bet a lot of people here are more excited than they would be with official info, because fantasy always trumps reality!

You make a good point. But for those of us who are currently in the market to make a purchase in the next few weeks like I am, I don't like to make a $4K investment on last minute information, or make a decision today and then tomorrow something comes out and then start kicking my self in the ***, because I should have just waited a few more weeks. :mad:

I already handed over my $5k based on this silly thread! :)

FWIW, I tend to think the delay is due to the success of the 65/61 series. That thread has a lot of hits and the set has a lot of buyers. I think this set is going to be positioned as the holiday set of choice for Samsung. Isn't CEDIA next month? Maybe we will get an official announcement from them at this point.

Drew

yeah, i am thinking of getting the 4665. it is cheaper than 81 series. The quality is already pretty good, doubt that it can be improved by much. I saw 65 at a store today and was stunned so I am thinking of it. I does not have 1:100,000 contrast and 120hz, but how much noticable difference there will be is arguable.

What about the 71 Series? Any prices for that? and how does it differ from the 81 series? What is left out?

yeah, i am thinking of getting the 4665. it is cheaper than 81 series. The quality is already pretty good, doubt that it can be improved by much. I saw 65 at a store today and was stunned so I am thinking of it. I does not have 1:100,000 contrast and 120hz, but how much noticable difference there will be is arguable.
i think u should wait and find out
even if your hypothesis is right
i couldnt hurt to wait becuz when the 81s come in the 65s will be cheaper

Just pre-ordered the LN-T4081f today online. Lets hope it's all worth it.

Just to give most recent update from BB here in Miami on the Samsung 71 and 81 series.
No availability at the warehouse at this time, but receiving date is set in their computer for 8/26/07. Hope this date holds true.

Saw the 65 series and was stunned. Picture quality was outstanding. If this is a glimpse as to the possibility of the quality of picture the 71 or 81 series holds, then my anxiety is thru the roof! :D

Just to give most recent update from BB here in Miami on the Samsung 71 and 81 series.
No availability at the warehouse at this time, but receiving date is set in their computer for 8/26/07. Hope this date holds true.
My local BB says 8/26/07, but only for 71s. 81s weren't in the system yet.

Yes, it's annoying how long it takes them to review the new stuff. I don't expect CNET to review 81 Series any time soon, if at all. Frankly, I'm hoping we could get first reviews/impressions from someone attending IFA07 in 3 weeks. Both 71s & 81s will be shown there for the first time.

I am going, and was certainly planning to spend some time in the Samsung booth! That is one of the bene's of getting stuck going to all these CE tradeshows. Give up Labor Day long weekend, but see new LED LD panel that could rock my world. Seems like a decent tradeoff for having to do this show again this year....

I agree.I won't buy a product unless its been reviewed by CNET and/or Consumer Report.Too many dollars to invest based only on thread info.

[QUOTE]My local BB says 8/26/07, but only for 71s. 81s weren't in the system yet.

I looked at the computer with the sales guy at BB and he did the search for the 4681 Sammy, so the date was for the 81 series. The only dought that I have on this is that he did not have any inventory at the warehouse and it did not state if it was in transit to warehouse. :(

What about the 71 Series? Any prices for that? and how does it differ from the 81 series? What is left out?81 Series has a completely different backlight technology that, in contrast to all other LCDs, is modulated in concert with liquid crystals and actively participates in producing images with much higher contrast than even plasmas. Also, it's the first LCD that uses RGB LEDs as the source of light in the backlight that generate better quality light than all other CCFL-based sources (reds are actually red, greens are really green and so on). LEDs also allow backlight strobing and "quadrant backlight scanning" that should greatly reduce or even eliminate motion blur that's usually associated with the previous generation of LCDs (a nice side-effect of this is lower power consumption). Basically, while technically this is still LCD since it uses liquid crystals, the technology behind it is quite different than 71 Series LCD which is just another example of a regular LCD slightly improved. Instead of calling 81 Series an "LCD" I would prefer a different name to set this hybrid technology apart from the rest of LCDs to avoid confusion. Perhaps LLL (Locally-dimmed LED LCD)? 81 Series is 1st generation technology, not nth generation (71 Series).

81 Series is 1st generation technology

This is the reason why I am a little scheptic of the 81 series. The unit has not gone thru the gauntlet to see what it is made of and what hickups it may encounter.

I am going, and was certainly planning to spend some time in the Samsung booth! That is one of the bene's of getting stuck going to all these CE tradeshows. Give up Labor Day long weekend, but see new LED LD panel that could rock my world. Seems like a decent tradeoff for having to do this show again this year....Excellent! Please attend Samsung's booth and report your impressions. I will then update the first post in this thread with your review. Thanks.

Excellent! Please attend Samsung's booth and report your impressions. I will then update the first post in this thread with your review. Thanks.

Will do. I did so with the Sharp 92 series at CES this year, and caught a bunch of flack for it from a few posters wanting "professional opinions", but turned out to be right about banding still being present, even in these high end models from them. I probably would not even be on this thread if Sharp hadn't laid such an egg on all their Kameyama II plant products.

I went to BB/Magnolia -- it was active in their pre-order system and ordered it while their reward zone sale was still going -- thanks for the tip. They told me Sept 8 delivery.

[QUOTE=pactman][COLOR=White]

I already handed over my $5k based on this silly thread! :)


It's brave souls like you that we all appreciate. We will wait impatiently to hear your review once you receive the set. And hopefully, convince the rest of us to take the plunge. :)

Interesting. None of these are on my short list. You must know something I don't since we seem to agree on prices.

Do you mind letting me in on what is on your short list? Inquiring minds...

Brandon

81 Series has a completely different backlight technology that, in contrast to all other LCDs, is modulated in concert with liquid crystals and actively participates in producing images with much higher contrast than even plasmas. Also, it's the first LCD that uses RGB LEDs as the source of light in the backlight that generate better quality light than all other CCFL-based sources (reds are actually red, greens are really green and so on). LEDs also allow backlight strobing and "quadrant backlight scanning" that should greatly reduce or even eliminate motion blur that's usually associated with the previous generation of LCDs (a nice side-effect of this is lower power consumption). Basically, while technically this is still LCD since it uses liquid crystals, the technology behind it is quite different than 71 Series LCD which is just another example of a regular LCD slightly improved. Instead of calling 81 Series an "LCD" I would prefer a different name to set this hybrid technology apart from the rest of LCDs to avoid confusion. Perhaps LLL (Locally-dimmed LED LCD)? 81 Series is 1st generation technology, not nth generation (71 Series).
Yeah this sounds great but wouldnt local dimming LED s create a halo effect??

Yeah this sounds great but wouldnt local dimming LED s create a halo effect??

Yes possibly, check out 10-20 pages back, TONS of speculation about this issue.

the halo affect being when there's a good black level screen and something bright and lit is in that sector that there's some "glow" from the lit portion bleeding over into the black?

Yes possibly, check out 10-20 pages back, TONS of speculation about this issue.Or he can just read the first 3 pages of this thread. Nothing original was said after that.

Incidentally, I found two short low-quality video clips shot few years ago at SIGGRAPH of an early IMLED display showing a glass figure against a dark background reflecting bright rays of light. The first clip shows the backlight and the second shows the combined image. While this is shown you can hear some guy asking someone (a rep, I'm assuming), "Can you get artifacts if you have an extremely dark region right next to an extremely dark region?" and the other guy replies, "Can you see them? Absolutely not". I'm not sure how much this relates to 81 Series but I thought I would just throw it out there while we wait for reviews. I could post links to these clips if anyone's interested.

Last night I was watching preseason football and saw a Samsung commercial. Samsung is the offical TV partner of the NFL, and they ran a commerical showing what I assume to be the 71 series (it had the side speaker look of the new 71/81 series). About halfway through the ad the voiceover said "...with 120Hz technology...". So at least there is some confirmation of the 71 series.

Holy crap 100 pages.

The thing about the halo is, now I'm not an expert (just going by what others have said), is that yes there will be a halo, but the eye is not sensitive enough to pick it up. The brightness overwhelms the eye and even if the TV didn't have a halo, the eye would put one in.

Or he can just read the first 3 pages of this thread. Nothing original was said after that.

Incidentally, I found two short low-quality video clips shot few years ago at SIGGRAPH of an early IMLED display showing a glass figure against a dark background reflecting bright rays of light. The first clip shows the backlight and the second shows the combined image. While this is shown you can hear some guy asking someone (a rep, I'm assuming), "Can you get artifacts if you have an extremely dark region right next to an extremely dark region?" and the other guy replies, "Can you see them? Absolutely not". I'm not sure how much this relates to 81 Series but I thought I would just throw it out there while we wait for reviews. I could post links to these clips if anyone's interested.I don't think it really adds anything to the discussion of the 81 Series, but I'd still love to see the vids :)

I don't think it really adds anything to the discussion of the 81 Series, but I'd still love to see the vids :)FWIW,
Backlight (ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/3dGraphics/siggraph2004/Sunnbrook%20Active%20Backlight.AVI)
Backlight + LCs (ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/3dGraphics/siggraph2004/Sunnybrook%20HDR%20demo.AVI)

FWIW,
Backlight (ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/3dGraphics/siggraph2004/Sunnbrook%20Active%20Backlight.AVI)
Backlight + LCs (ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/3dGraphics/siggraph2004/Sunnybrook%20HDR%20demo.AVI)Cool, thanks!

Too bad the resolution is so bad on the first one. Hard to tell what artifacts are introduced from the compression or whether it's just the LED effects themselves.

Cool, thanks!

Too bad the resolution is so bad on the first one. Hard to tell what artifacts are introduced from the compression or whether it's just the LED effects themselves.

I believe the first video is just showing how the LED backlight is modulated according to picture information.

Cool, thanks!

Too bad the resolution is so bad on the first one. Hard to tell what artifacts are introduced from the compression or whether it's just the LED effects themselves.No, the resolution on the first one is fine. It's just how low resolution, diffused LED backlight matrix looks like - blurry. 81 Series' backlight will be even more blurry.

Was this a Brightside demo?

This has all been gone over. To me its not a matter of Contrast, its a matter of acheivable black levels when things need to be lit. When watching star wars on a normal LCD in the dark, you can clearly see how all the black space glows grey, thats just the nature of LCDs. So if the backlights need to be on to illuminate stars, then they will also illuminate the black space, thus making black levels relatively similar to a non locally dimmed set. The ratio will be fine, but black levels will float, sometimes they will be amazing, sometime they will be the same. Thus is why they state the Dynamic ratio as 100k, not the Static.

This has all been gone over. To me its not a matter of Contrast, its a matter of acheivable black levels when things need to be lit. When watching star wars on a normal LCD in the dark, you can clearly see how all the black space glows grey, thats just the nature of LCDs. So if the backlights need to be on to illuminate stars, then they will also illuminate the black space, thus making black levels relatively similar to a non locally dimmed set. The ratio will be fine, but black levels will float, sometimes they will be amazing, sometime they will be the same. Thus is why they state the Dynamic ratio as 100k, not the Static.That is a very good point. Star Wars might look similar to an LCD, but I'm guessing a movie like The Descent would look amazing (and be a lot scarier!) on one of these sets.

Good perspective. The Mail Order Bride approach to buying big ticket items is too risky. I have yet to see a new electronic device that hasn't demonstrated some weakness. I've requested a local dealer (not BB or CC) to call me so that I can go to the showroom and see the 71's and 81's for myself. This won't require more than the exercise of some patience. Besides, I'm still not convinced that the msrp won't come down in a few months.

This is a good point, I agree. In my particular instance though I'm actually running *without* a TV, and given the potential supply shortages I thought a preorder was the only way for me to be able to get a 4081f anytime in the next three months, given that I'm living in remote upstate NY.

That is a very good point. Star Wars might look similar to an LCD, but I'm guessing a movie like The Descent would look amazing (and be a lot scarier!) on one of these sets.

Think about 9" CRT FP when you think about 81 series blacks. Star Wars won't glow. 81 series has better blacks than any other digital display or projector on the market. Even including JVC RS-1/HD-1 which has ~0.001ft-L black level.

The FACT is that you know the gloss makes the picture
How does gloss make the picture better? The logic seems flawed. The gloss is adding reflections, even if you were to put the gloss screen into a batcave. Reflections modify the light, so you wouldn't get the pure picture. Real life isn't covered with gloss. A person with 20/20 vision naturally isn't the same as someone with 20/20 after glasses. Glasses are similar to the gloss, you get reflections. No one in their right mind would choose to have glasses because they're stylish over having 20/20 naturally.

How does gloss make the picture better? The logic seems flawed. The gloss is adding reflections, even if you were to put the gloss screen into a batcave. Reflections modify the light,


I hate the gloss too, but it actually does help..

A Matt screen difuses reflected light, so instead of seing the window behind you, you see a glowing blob, much less offensive to look at. The problem is, the matte coating difusses reflected light, AND emmited light. This diffusion will soften edges, and cast lumination over the entire image.

So in a perfectly dark room, a glossy screen will allow the light to cleanly pass through, without being diffused, thus a cleaner image. But ofcourse, in a moderately lit room, it could be enormously annoiying.

In my opinion, its just not worth it, but you can argue it either way. Someone said the glossy coat may be less glossy than the 65 series, but maybe thats just wishful thinking.

How does gloss make the picture better? The logic seems flawed. The gloss is adding reflections, even if you were to put the gloss screen into a batcave. Reflections modify the light, so you wouldn't get the pure picture. Real life isn't covered with gloss. A person with 20/20 vision naturally isn't the same as someone with 20/20 after glasses. Glasses are similar to the gloss, you get reflections. No one in their right mind would choose to have glasses because they're stylish over having 20/20 naturally.

I recently swapped a 61f for a 65f and can say that gloss makes your picture more pure (that is if you don't get too much reflection). On a matte screen, light from the room doesn't disappear; it is diffused on the whole screen, messing with the perceived contrast ratio. On the glossy one, you feel like you have a direct view of the image underneath the glass; the colors seem more vivid, the blacks more black.

ABT Electronics is reporting that the 4081F should be available in their warehouse in August 20th. That's where I pre-ordered my unit.

For ppl in Toronto, On. Canada.
I;ve been to a local electronic chain store, got the pricing and was told from his list to arrived late Sep. My quote for LNT4681 was $500 less then what BB & FS listed price and is tax included. Note, I did not bargin. So you should be able to get atleast another 1-200 extra off.

I recently swapped a 61f for a 65f and can say that gloss makes your picture more pure (that is if you don't get too much reflection). On a matte screen, light from the room doesn't disappear; it is diffused on the whole screen, messing with the perceived contrast ratio. On the glossy one, you feel like you have a direct view of the image underneath the glass; the colors seem more vivid, the blacks more black.

But you also get reflections. Pick your poison. Or better yet.. watch in the dark. :)

I'm confused .. didn't we all watch TVs with Glossy screens our ENTIRE lives? As far as I know every CRT known to man is a glossy screen. How can the Samsung 65 series or 81 series glossy screens be any worse than the very thing we have been watching since the dawn of the TV era? I get reflection on my TV at home, but when I clsoe the shade I am perfectly happy with the image on screen.

I'm confused .. didn't we all watch TVs with Glossy screens our ENTIRE lives? As far as I know every CRT known to man is a glossy screen. How can the Samsung 65 series or 81 series glossy screens be any worse than the very thing we have been watching since the dawn of the TV era? I get reflection on my TV at home, but when I clsoe the shade I am perfectly happy with the image on screen.

Was your tube 52 inches? Did it look amazing?

I'm confused .. didn't we all watch TVs with Glossy screens our ENTIRE lives? As far as I know every CRT known to man is a glossy screen. How can the Samsung 65 series or 81 series glossy screens be any worse than the very thing we have been watching since the dawn of the TV era? I get reflection on my TV at home, but when I close the shade I am perfectly happy with the image on screen.You should not be confused if you examine the situation in more detail. Typical tube TV's were much smaller, and until recent years not flat. New panels are much larger, acting like mirrors if glossy.

Additionally, tube TV's do look like crap in a bright room with dark material. They cannot compare to the performance of a good matte screen. For dark rooms, gloss does seem to be a bit better.

81 series has better blacks than any other digital display or projector on the market

No! No! No!No! I'm not listening

http://www.exposure.net/images/mw428/129/youth_aids.jpg

8G cult member.

For ppl in Toronto, On. Canada.
I;ve been to a local electronic chain store, got the pricing and was told from his list to arrived late Sep. My quote for LNT4681 was $500 less then what BB & FS listed price and is tax included. Note, I did not bargin. So you should be able to get atleast another 1-200 extra off.

Which store? (and PM sent)

You should not be confused if you examine the situation in more detail. Typical tube TV's were much smaller, and until recent years not flat. New panels are much larger, acting like mirrors if glossy.

Additionally, tube TV's do look like crap in a bright room with dark material. They cannot compare to the performance of a good matte screen. For dark rooms, gloss does seem to be a bit better.


Mark,

That was kind of my point. A lot of people are asking about the glare (on this and the 65 forum) and whether or not it would bother them My un-informed take on it is ... if you had a Tube set you should pretty much know what the glare is going to be like. Am I wrong? Do you think it's worse?

I personally seem to like the glossy look over the matte. I am not really sure why. maybe it's the blacks, I wish I could explain it, then maybe I could make a damn decision about what tv I want. :-) In any event, I really respect the opinions of most people here on the forum.

Sorry to change the dynamics of the thread, but I was wondering if the 81 series would have a optical cable connection for audio? I don't have a fancy audio system (Logitech z-5500), but it does have a port for 5.1 audio using an optical cable and was hoping that this tv would of course have that type of connection.

No! No! No!No! I'm not listening

http://www.exposure.net/images/mw428/129/youth_aids.jpg

8G cult member.

Wow, didn't realize Auditor had breasts.

Yikes! Auditor has entered the LCD forum. Its all downhill from here! :eek:

Don't know if this had been posted yet. Quick guides available on Samsung.com for 71 and 81 series
(4071/4671/5271)
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070813174556531/EN/main.htm
(4081/4681/5281)
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/main.htm

A most excellent link to highest most excellent documentations! Excellent!

A most excellent link to highest most excellent documentations! Excellent!

I hope your being sarcastic, cause they don't say crap about specs.

However, this is the FIRST link on samsungs domain name, and not a third party.

Thanks for posting the link.

CadJoe

I hope your being sarcastic, cause they don't say crap about specs.

However, this is the FIRST link on samsungs domain name, and not a third party.

Thanks for posting the link.

CadJoe

With Samsung finally listing it's features like:

Excellent Digital Interface & Networking
&
Excellent Picture Quality

how could I possibly be sarcastic!

... Networking...

As in the new 802.11n ?

That most excellent document unfortunately said the 57" panel isn't wall mountable. WTF? This is one of the few new TVs I was waiting for to see and I'd already made up my mind to wall mount whatever I get. ARGH.

Funny how they first two major features they point out are sleep functions. How exciting!

No! No! No!No! I'm not listening

http://www.exposure.net/images/mw428/129/youth_aids.jpg

8G cult member.

SED Cult members could only wish they were half as hot as Christina Aguilera. The Pio cult babe. :)

Anyway, speaking of which has anyone here actually seen the Samsung 81 series in action? Like real-time, remote in hand, darkness all around? I'd love to hear impressions.