Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread

[bsd107]

Don't know if this had been posted yet. Quick guides available on Samsung.com for 71 and 81 series
(4071/4671/5271)
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070813174556531/EN/main.htm
(4081/4681/5281)
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/main.htm

Wait - that web link shows the "81F". Isn't it the "81D" that we are all waiting for???

[CadJoe]

Wait - that web link shows the "81F". Isn't it the "81D" that we are all waiting for???

Uh, no. Even the 61 and 65 are an F.

If anything, I would have thought the LED would have been G.

The D was on last years models of the LN-S.

CadJoe

[bigjohns1997SS]

I notice they state dvi/hdmi for you computer, did samsung finally wise up and change out that vga port for a dvi-i?

[tombaker]

Scuza me, I did not ask re processing. I am well aware that processing in 65s, 71s and 81s is 10 bit. I've asked about 10 bit panel. All new Sony have 10 bit peocessing and 10 bit panel. AFAIK Sammy still using 8 bit panels. Will be glad to be mistaken...
The entire thing with processing is meaningless without the panel that can display them. I have seen TRILLION COLOR processing tags on the front of LCDs....meanwhile they most likely have 8bit panels.

As the Samsungs are indicating 10 bit processing...without remarking on the Panel itself....the odds on favorite is........these panels are 8 bit.

Identifying a panel as 10bit is a marketing advantage....every person building a press kit and spec sheet would know this.....so they would say 10 bit if it was.

This is not conclusive....but odds say they are 8 bit.

[Geod]

I found a spec sheet for the LN-T4081F. I don't know if it's been posted yet or not, but I can't post URLs yet as I've been mainly a lurker. If anyone wants the url and can post it, PM me. I'm assuming I can give links through there.

[____]

The entire thing with processing is meaningless without the panel that can display them. I have seen TRILLION COLOR processing tags on the front of LCDs....meanwhile they most likely have 8bit panels.

81 series = 10bit panel, 10bit processing.

[Geod]

I found a spec sheet for the LN-T4081F. I don't know if it's been posted yet or not, but I can't post URLs yet as I've been mainly a lurker. If anyone wants the url and can post it, PM me. I'm assuming I can give links through there.

Yes, I'm quoting myself.

To anyone that sent me a PM, sorry, I can't put a URL in PMs either...

[vtms]

I found a spec sheet for the LN-T4081F. I don't know if it's been posted yet or not, but I can't post URLs yet as I've been mainly a lurker. If anyone wants the url and can post it, PM me. I'm assuming I can give links through there.Do they differ from the specs posted in the first post of this thread?

[Geod]

Here:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/tlauver/lnt81f_specs.pdf

[phigment]

Here:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/tlauver/lnt81f_specs.pdf

Same sheet as the original one posted a while back.

[Geod]

Same sheet as the original one posted a while back.

Yeah, I figured it might have been already posted. Sorry, thanks.

[vtms]

81 series = 10bit panel, 10bit processing.And I already see someone replying to this with, "So what, new Sonys have 10-bit panel and 10-bit processing, and if so, then what's the big hoopla over these Samsungs?" Well, the big deal here is that the backlight adds at least 6 more bits to the 10-bit grayscale for a total of 16 bits!

[tombaker]

81 series = 10bit panel, 10bit processing. we can hope so....but thats is not what the spec sheets say. It is possible that the engineers during development married and did all the testing with an 8 bit panel....and that 8 bit panel is what they will ship with.

This is something that can happen with a Generation 1 product. If they had the 10 bit panel they would be jumping to say so....the spec sheets don't say it.

Sure they can put in a 10 bit panel....but then they have to revalidates all the tweaking and testing they have already done....pushing out a release date

Right now the odds are they are 8 bit.......come on 10bit.

[glow11]

we can hope so....but thats is not what the spec sheets say. It is possible that the engineers during development married and did all the testing with an 8 bit panel....and that 8 bit panel is what they will ship with.

This is something that can happen with a Generation 1 product. If they had the 10 bit panel they would be jumping to say so....the spec sheets don't say it.

Sure they can put in a 10 bit panel....but then they have to revalidates all the tweaking and testing they have already done....pushing out a release date

Right now the odds are they are 8 bit.......come on 10bit.

Not sure if it's the applicable, but 10+ years ago in the 3d industry, they did something similar for rendering scenes. Graphics cards could display, at best, 24 bit images, but they calculated renders at 48 bits. (3dsMax would at least). Since the image was always displayed at 24 bits, one would wonder why it would need to be calculated at a higher bit depth. The answer is that they would calculate at the higher bit depth, then dither to a 24 bit image to achieve much smoother gradients and a much better looking image than if they calculated in 24 bit color.

I'm not sure if this is the same idea behind processing at higher bit depths on TV's or not, but if it is, it should look better than 8 bit processing to an 8 bit display.

[alex4412]

Stunning TV's...

[____]

Right now the odds are they are 8 bit.......come on 10bit.

Q3 2007 Samsung S-PVA TV panels are real 10 bit panels.

[Flash01]

Don't know if this had been posted yet. Quick guides available on Samsung.com for 71 and 81 series
(4071/4671/5271)
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070813174556531/EN/main.htm
(4081/4681/5281)
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/main.htm

Cool!

If the representation of the 81's wasn't a computer generated image I'd be all happy because that would mean detachable speakers and that the TV would fit in my existing furniture :) (Kinda looks like the control buttons are situated on the right side *hidden* speaker. )

Good link, though it doesn't provide much in terms of information, it means we are inching oh so closer to seeing them in store.

[Alex the Great]

The entire thing with processing is meaningless without the panel that can display them. I have seen TRILLION COLOR processing tags on the front of LCDs....meanwhile they most likely have 8bit panels.

Thank you, this was exactly my point. Sammy and Sony have a joint manufacturing facility and although they build different panels (including back light, drivers and other electronics) the glasses most likely the same. So lets forget about processing and focus on performance:

1. So how come all new Sony TVs have 10 bit panels and Sammy is still behind with 8 bit?
2. Is it because an additional electronics is responsible for 10 bit panel so it is external to the glass itself?
3. Or Sony starts manufacturing 8-th gen panels and Sammy is still on 7-th gen panels?
4. How many type of panels Sammy (and Sony) have? (on Sammy website there are 2 main type: 61Fs 8 bit/60Hz/72% and 65Fs 8bit/60 Hz/92%)
5. Does 71Fs 8bit/120Hz/92% panel based on 65Fs design (with updated drivers circuits) or it going to be completely new glass/panel?
6. Does 81Fs 8bit/60Hz/105% panel based on 65Fs design (with LED BL), 71Fs panel or it going to be new glass/panel?
7. What gen new Sammy 71Fs and 81Fs belong to, 7-th or 8-th?

[____]

7. What gen new Sammy 71Fs and 81Fs belong to, 7-th or 8-th?

8th gen. 71 and 81 series use new type panels.

[Alex the Great]

8th gen. 71 and 81 series use new type panels.

Tnx! Do you know if Sony has 8 gen panels in V/W-3000 and XBR4/5?

[____]

Tnx! Do you know if Sony has 8 gen panels in V/W-3000 and XBR4/5?

Don't know. Maybe if those panels are coming from the same 8 gen fab? I don't really care about any other flat panel than 81 series currently. Maybe next year I do when 81 series has some real competition. :D

[Health Nut]

Is the 81 series for sale yet? What are the largest sizes available? Anyone have specific model numbers I should look for since I don't see anything that says 81 series on their website (I only briefly glanced at it).

[Schaden]

Did anyone else notice that they dropped the "t" out of the product name? The link to the samsung page for the 81 shows the model as the "LN-4081F/4681F" etc.
Wonder what the "t" stands for, and why they dropped it?

[____]

Is the 81 series for sale yet? What are the largest sizes available? Anyone have specific model numbers I should look for since I don't see anything that says 81 series on their website (I only briefly glanced at it).

In about a week or two. 57" and 70". 70" should be available a bit later.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Thank you, this was exactly my point. Sammy and Sony have a joint manufacturing facility and although they build different panels (including back light, drivers and other electronics) the glasses most likely the same. So lets forget about processing and focus on performance:

1. So how come all new Sony TVs have 10 bit panels and Sammy is still behind with 8 bit?
2. Is it because an additional electronics is responsible for 10 bit panel so it is external to the glass itself?
3. Or Sony starts manufacturing 8-th gen panels and Sammy is still on 7-th gen panels?
4. How many type of panels Sammy (and Sony) have? (on Sammy website there is 1 type 8bit/60 Hz/92%)
5. Does 71Fs 8bit/120Hz/92% panel based on 65Fs design (with updated drivers circuits) or it going to be completely new glass/panel?
6. Does 81Fs 8bit/60Hz/105% panel based on 65Fs design (with LED BL), 71Fs panel or it going to be new glass/panel?
7. What gen new Sammy 71Fs and 81Fs belong to, 7-th or 8-th?

TFTFY


And while we obviously disagree about that, I do agree with you about 8/10 bit between Sony and Samsung. It strikes me as very odd that Sony is getting 10-bit glass, while Samsung is getting 8-bit glass from the same manufacturing facility.

[necrolop]

TFTFY


And while we obviously disagree about that, I do agree with you about 8/10 bit between Sony and Samsung. It strikes me as very odd that Sony is getting 10-bit glass, while Samsung is getting 8-bit glass from the same manufacturing facility.


Well, unless sony is doing interpolation on the color space, isnt 10bit irrelivant for things liek BD and HD DVD since they are 8 bit anyways.

I find it hard to beleive that the 81s are 8-bit. I really wish Samsung would publish a real ****ing spec sheet.

[Auditor55]

Yikes! Auditor has entered the LCD forum. Its all downhill from here! :eek:


Its cool dude :cool:

[____]

Its cool dude :cool:

Auditor55 is always welcome. :cool:

[yahui168]

Hi all,

I plan on purchasing the ln-5281f when it's available. I'd really appreciate some advice on the sound system. I have the Sony DAV-FX80 5.1 home theater system which I got free through my sony rewards points. I am using the system without the rear speakers because I don't want to run wires to the back of my couch. That means I'm only using the center, two front speakers and the subwoofer. I'm not very picky with my sound so I would like to know if I can just use the 81's SRS TruSurround XT 2.2 speakers and shelve my existing DAV-FX80. Will the 2.2 speakers be comparable to my existing sony system without rear speakers? I have a pretty small room and sit about 6 ft away from the TV. Thanks for any advice.

In addition, I recently stopped by my local Magnolia Audio Video (not BestBuy) in the bay area of California. The salesman told me the 81 and 71 should be available late August and that no one has preordered those LCDs in that store. In comparison, about 10 people has ordered the new Pioneer plasma due out later this year. I'm not familiar with plasma TVs but you guys probably know which plasma the salesguy was talking about. If you're from the bay area, you might not have to preorder to get the 81/71 in the first week it's available.

[vtms]

I find it hard to beleive that the 81s are 8-bit. I really wish Samsung would publish a real ****ing spec sheet.Even considering all the preliminary info we have right now, there's been absolutely no indication that 81s use 8-bit panels. It's nothing but a rumor just like few months ago people were talking about >$5K prices for 40". It would be really shocking if, as others have already said, only Sony was using 10-bit panels from Samsung-Sony manufacturing plant. I mean, what's the point of having a plant producing 10-bit panels and not using the panels. Are they going to store them in a warehouse and use them next year or yield all the panels to Sony? It doesn't make any sense.

[Alex the Great]

TFTFY

And while we obviously disagree about that, I do agree with you about 8/10 bit between Sony and Samsung. It strikes me as very odd that Sony is getting 10-bit glass, while Samsung is getting 8-bit glass from the same manufacturing facility.

What exactly you obviously disagree about? Did you noticed that you just have rephrased yet quote my question?

[Alex the Great]

Even considering all the preliminary info we have right now, there's been absolutely no indication that 81s use 8-bit panels. It's nothing but a rumor just like few months ago people were talking about >$5K prices for 40". It would be really shocking if, as others have already said, only Sony was using 10-bit panels from Samsung-Sony manufacturing plant. I mean, what's the point of having a plant producing 10-bit panels and not using the panels. Are they going to store them in a warehouse and use them next year or yield all the panels to Sony? It doesn't make any sense.

Do you know what makes 8 or 10 panel, substrate/glass or driver/circuit?
AFAIK Sony/Sammy glasses may be the same but panels are different.

[Health Nut]

52-inches ($4,999)
57-inches ($7,999)

Anyone have the model numbers for these?

Considering the price of the new (released in September) Sony VW-60 projector for $3,999 using the latest dynamic iris and 35,000:1 contrast, I may just go with a VW-60 and project onto an 80" screen instead...

[Admiral Ackbar]

Do you know what makes 8 or 10 panel, substrate/glass or driver/circuit?
AFAIK Sony/Sammy glasses may be the same but panels are different.

You should look closer, my fix is bolded, but it doesn't show up well.

[____]

52-inches ($4,999)
Considering the price of the new (released in September) Sony VW-60 projector for $3,999 using the latest dynamic iris and 35,000:1 contrast, I may just go with a VW-60 and project onto an 80" screen instead...

VW-60 has below 10k:1 intrascene contrast, much lower ansi, higher black level, inaccurate colors etc. It's your call. Size or quality? You really can't compare flat panel and FP. Try using that VW-60 if there's any ambient light in the room. And how long will one bulb last?

[rfalls]

Just received my new Crutchfield catalog in the mail. The catalog has the 81s with a separate discussion by Crutchfield of the 81's local dimming technology. No 71s are in the catalog. Crutchfield also has a separate discussion of new LCDs with 120hz technology and then in a comparison matrix, specifically has the 81 as not having this technology. Not sure if this is new news, but I thought I would pass it along.

[bsd107]

Uh, no. Even the 61 and 65 are an F.

If anything, I would have thought the LED would have been G.

The D was on last years models of the LN-S.

CadJoe

OK, width is a big problem for me, and I thought I had the width. But it's for a "81d", I think.

Can someone please give me the official dimensions of the 52" 81F (with local dimming LED)?

Thanks!

[Alex the Great]

Well, unless sony is doing interpolation on the color space, isnt 10bit irrelivant for things liek BD and HD DVD since they are 8 bit anyways.

I find it hard to beleive that the 81s are 8-bit. I really wish Samsung would publish a real ****ing spec sheet.

Excuse me, but I think it is a very common misconception. Color space or gamut has nothing to do with color deep. For instance RGB CS can be 6, 8, 10, 12, etc bits deep. Regardless of number of bits RGB CS covers only 50 gamut of NTSC CS. An addition to confuse all of us there are new xvYCC color space, PAL, sRGB, Wide Color and many other gamut. This xvYCC and Wide Color are already implemented in some Sony camcorders.
BTW does Deep Color feature we keep hearing from Sony for a couple of years stand for 10 bit color deep?

Any clarifications re Colors Issues will be appreciated.

[Alex the Great]

You should look closer, my fix is bolded, but it doesn't show up well.

Hopefully you can alternate only my post but not Samsung site:

part number Size(inch), Resolution, Mode, Color gamut(%), Contrast Ratio, Brghtness(cd/m2)
LTA460HT 46.0 WUXGA S-PVA 92 1,500:1 570
LTA460HS 46.0 WUXGA S-PVA 72 1,200:1 500
LTA400HS 40.0 WUXGA S-PVA 72 1,200:1 500
LTA400HT 40.0 WUXGA S-PVA 92 2,000:1 600

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/productList.do?upper_fmly_id=602&fmly_id=607

FYI I am speaking from experience, I "pwned" SamSung 4061F TV and have it returned for a few reasons, and one of them was 72% CG.

[tombaker]

Did anyone else notice that they dropped the "t" out of the product name? The link to the samsung page for the 81 shows the model as the "LN-4081F/4681F" etc.
Wonder what the "t" stands for, and why they dropped it?
Probaby because that was a year code....because inventory and products can stay active longer than a year now...they wanted to move away from Year Code in the model number.

The 4061F / 4065F I believe will be continued on after the 71 hits....they will just drive the price down on them....its not like they are just instantly going to dismantle the factory's that were making the glass for them

[CadJoe]

I notice they state dvi/hdmi for you computer, did samsung finally wise up and change out that vga port for a dvi-i?

Define wise?

It should be a DisplayPort, which Samsung is the first to make a monitor for.

DisplayPort is competition to HDMI, has more resolution & bandwidth capabilities, yet also includes a form of copy protection.


CadJoe

[tombaker]

Even considering all the preliminary info we have right now, there's been absolutely no indication that 81s use 8-bit panels.

well wrong. The indication is the marketing material generated by Samsung does not indicate the panels are 10 bit. Actually they reference 10 bit, but specifically include only processing. A 10 Bit panel is a marketing advantage, and the professional marketing team at Samsung gets that....so they would have included it, if they could.

There is no sure answer, yet, but the indications are clearly they are 8 bit panels. I would say its 80% odds of 8 bit.

I think for a Gen1 product that is years in the making....you design it around a technology you know you can have and costs less. You can design a product so well at the start, that it costs so much that nobody buys it.

There was a LISA before there was a Macintosh.

Economically it makes sense to design it around a 8 bit panel, especially without an understanding of what FABs will be in place when the design goes to market.

You could design it around the 10 bit panel....then have the 10 bit boys get in trouble.....and then you have two major projects blowing ship dates instead of 1.

With the other enhancements I doubt the 8 bit vs 10bit would be huge anyways.....and it certainly gives maniacs the reason to upgrade in a year and half when the 10 bit version of the 91 hits.

So the indications are there....we just don't know for sure.

[CadJoe]

Probaby because that was a year code....because inventory and products can stay active longer than a year now...they wanted to move away from Year Code in the model number.

I think the "T" missing is just a typo. You wouldn't believe the typos in their manual.

Even the specs sheets show the "T" yet also have typos on dimensions, which are backwards (stand / no stand).


CadJoe

[tombaker]

Here is the Samsung marketing picture for the zones, 180 of them
You can got to Crutchfield.com to view some other specs

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2007/305/h305LNT4081-o_LocalDim1.jpeg

Combining multiple cutting-edge technologies, Samsung's "81-Series" HDTVs have leapfrogged the competition to deliver a thrilling new level of LCD picture quality. These models replace the conventional bar-style fluorescent backlight with hundreds of LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes). This LED backlighting system is the key to the LN-T4081F's stunning picture.

LED backlighting extends LCD color range
Standard fluorescent LCD backlights can only reproduce about 72% of the broadcast TV color range. The colors that are lost are the deeper shades, especially reds and greens. Samsung's LED backlight actually reproduces 105% of the color range. From the deep red of a "Stop" sign to the lush green of stadium grass, every scene looks more real.

"Local dimming" enhances contrast and black level performance
Samsung's "local dimming" technology is a whole new approach to LCD screen illumination (click on the "Photos + Video" tab above to see an illustration). On typical LCD TVs, the backlight illuminates the entire screen equally at all times, no matter what is happening in the video image. The LN-T4081F's LED array is divided into a grid of independently controllable sections, to accurately display both dark and bright areas of an image. By taking advantage of the brightness and speed of LEDs, Samsung achieves a maximum contrast ratio of 100,000:1. That's not a misprint.

A wealth of high-def options
The LN-T4081F has tuners for pulling in analog and digital over-the-air broadcasts (antenna required). Cable TV subscribers can use the built-in "QAM" tuner to watch unscrambled cable channels without a set-top box. With three HDMI inputs and two component video, it's easy to add multiple high-definition video sources like an HD satellite tuner or video game console. The set's HDMI inputs accept 1080p signals like those available from many of the latest Blu-ray and HD DVD high-def disc players.

Learn about the ins and outs of HDMI connections at CrutchfieldAdvisor.com.
Shop our selection of HDMI cables.

Details:

» 40" widescreen HDTV (16:9 aspect ratio)
» built-in digital (ATSC) and analog (NTSC) tuners for over-the-air TV broadcasts (antenna required)
» built-in QAM cable TV tuner receives unscrambled programs without a set-top box (cable service required)
» 1920 x 1080 pixels
» 8-millisecond pixel response time
» 100,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio (with local dimming)
» 178°(H) x 178°(V) viewing angle
» LED backlight for extended color range, with local dimming for improved contrast and black level
» LED Motion Plus high-speed backlight scanning anti-blur technology
» 1-tuner Picture-in-Picture
» built-in side-mounted stereo speakers (10 watts x 2)
» partially illuminated multibrand remote control
» Anynet+ remote control networking system (HDMI-CEC)
» picture settings memory for each video input
» 7 A/V inputs, including:
• 2 composite video (1 rear, 1 side)
• 2 S-video (1 rear, 1 side)
• 2 component video (accepts signals up to 1080p)
• 3 HDMI v1.3 digital audio/video inputs (2 rear, 1 side)
— accepts signals up to 1080p (60Hz, 24Hz)
» PC input: analog RGB (D-Sub 15-pin)
» 2 RF inputs (Antenna, Cable)
» optical digital audio output for Dolby® Digital
» side USB port for digital photo/MP3 playback
» power consumption: 250 watts
» detachable swivel stand (stand "footprint" is 22-7/8"W x 11-1/2"D)
» wall-mountable (bracket not included)
» 43-3/4"W x 24"H x 4"D (26-5/8"H x 11-1/2"D on stand)
» weight: 57.8 lbs. with stand; 49.2 lbs. without stand
» warranty: 1 year parts & labor — in-home service

[tombaker]

big photo courtesy of Crutchfield.com
I am even included to think its a picture of the real projected picture too....as I see some artifacts around the hit ball....

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2007/305/h305LNT4081-f-MT_T.jpeg

[____]

Hmmm.. have they increased zone numbers for every model? I'm not complaining or anything though. :D

[necrolop]

OMG its 180 zones? 3 times what we all thought, I hope we can confirm this!
24hz input is also confirmed, BUT It does concern me that they do not mention 120hz, odd.

[____]

Well the 70" model has over 180 zones(confirmed)...

[Admiral Ackbar]

Hopefully you can alternate only my post but not Samsung site:

part number Size(inch), Resolution, Mode, Color gamut(%), Contrast Ratio, Brghtness(cd/m2)
LTA460HT 46.0 WUXGA S-PVA 92 1,500:1 570
LTA460HS 46.0 WUXGA S-PVA 72 1,200:1 500
LTA400HS 40.0 WUXGA S-PVA 72 1,200:1 500
LTA400HT 40.0 WUXGA S-PVA 92 2,000:1 600

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/productList.do?upper_fmly_id=602&fmly_id=607

FYI I am speaking from experience, I "pwned" SamSung 4061F TV and have it returned for a few reasons, and one of them was 72% CG.

Well then one of your reasons for returning it was stupid:

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=lcdtv&model_cd=LNT4061FX/XAA

[CadJoe]

BUT It does concern me that they do not mention 120hz, odd.

Because its not native. Its like Dynamic Hz processing ON or OFF.

I think Samsung leaves off 120 hz because they can't gaurantee it will always be able to achieve that, so they just call it LED Motion Plus.

81 series
LED Motion Plus -> On / Off
Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.


The 71 manual shows 120 Hz in the menus, but this description is the same as above:

71 Series
Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz -> Low / Medium / High

Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.

CadJoe

[necrolop]

Not sure what you mean. I mean I can see not being able to always interpolate to make it look better, but the screen is indeed going at 120hz. Is that what youre trying to say.

I just realized something. I hope each TV has the same number of regions, just smaller, cause if they scale the number of regions based on size, then the 46 has like 60 and the 40in has even fewer. I geuss were back at square one, got excited for nothing. :/

[____]

Not sure what you mean. I mean I can see not being able to always interpolate to make it look better, but the screen is indeed going at 120hz. Is that what youre trying to say.

I just realized something. I hope each TV has the same number of regions, just smaller, cause if they scale the number of regions based on size, then the 46 has like 60 and the 40in has even fewer. I geuss were back at square one, got excited for nothing. :/

Just go to see the tv when it's out? Then you will be excited.

[glow11]

big photo courtesy of Crutchfield.com
I am even included to think its a picture of the real projected picture too....as I see some artifacts around the hit ball....

I think its still a composited image...the glossy screen would have the same reflection on it as the bezel in the upper left.

[necrolop]

Places NEVER use real images.

[bigjohns1997SS]

damn, they used a vga input for a pc input again, are they serious???

Is anyone else worried about the lower brightness rating on these over the 65 series?

[Alex the Great]

Well then one of your reasons for returning it was stupid:

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=lcdtv&model_cd=LNT4061FX/XAA

It may be changed now, but my P3 set had 40AM (not AMG or AMWCG) panel option in SM and this stood for 72%

[oringa@comcast.n]

with the 100:000:1 contrast, does this mean we will be seeing better PQ than current plasmas?

[vtms]

If 40" had 180 zones, then that would be simply awesome. I have an awful feeling, though, that 180 might refer to 70" set. I so hope I'm wrong.

BTW, I was told at BB today that 71s and 81s have arrived at their warehouse earlier today and will be displayed in Magnolia in a week or two. I highly doubt this is true, but that's what the guy told me.

[LaserEdge]

damn, they used a vga input for a pc input again, are they serious???

Is anyone else worried about the lower brightness rating on these over the 65 series?

There are two ways to connect a PC to the 81 series. You can either used D-SUB or DVI. For DVI you connect to the HDMI1 port via DVI/HDMI cable. If you want to use the speakers on the panel when connecting with a PC via HDMI1 then input the stero audio via the DVI IN R-AUDIO-L RCA jacks.

Supported resolutions when using DVI/HDMI on the 81 series are as follows.

640 X 350, 720 X 400, 640 X 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1280 x 1024, 1920 x 1080

[Shinraven]

It better take pc via hdmi to dvi and does 1:1 mapping. ive been waiting for this. I know the 65f does it.

[rcxrc]

...and does this answer anything related to "is the 81 series going to be 60/120hz?".

This link was posted earlier, showing quick set-up info for the 81 series...

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/main.htm

From the troubleshooting page...

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/6_sub.htm

Scroll down to "Image is not stable and may
appear to vibrate when you have a computer connected to the PC input".

Your TV supports multiscan display functions within the following frequency domain:
Horizontal frequency (kHz) 30~60
Vertical frequency (Hz) 60~75
PC Maximum refresh rate (at 60 Hz) 1920 x 1080

Is this simply a reflection of computer display limitations, or...

RC

(hey, if this post appears ridiculously pedestrian, what can I say...I was a Chemistry major...the A/V field is not my forte)

[bigjohns1997SS]

There are two ways to connect a PC to the 81 series. You can either used D-SUB or DVI. For DVI you connect to the HDMI1 port via DVI/HDMI cable. If you want to use the speakers on the panel when connecting with a PC via HDMI1 then input the stero audio via the DVI IN R-AUDIO-L RCA jacks.

Supported resolutions when using DVI/HDMI on the 81 series are as follows.

640 X 350, 720 X 400, 640 X 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1280 x 1024, 1920 x 1080

Yes, but that's not the point.

My point is that with a dvi-i port you can use a vga adapter for anyone who doesn't have a modern day pc with a dvi port but you don't force the dvi users into an analog signal.

[LaserEdge]

Yes, but that's not the point.

My point is that with a dvi-i port you can use a vga adapter for anyone who doesn't have a modern day pc with a dvi port but you don't force the dvi users into an analog signal.

Don't really get your point. With the two PC input options no one is really forced into anything if they just spend a few bucks at monoprice.

[bsd107]

Anyone have the physical dimensions for the LN-T5281F?

[LaserEdge]

...and does this answer anything related to "is the 81 series going to be 60/120hz?".

This link was posted earlier, showing quick set-up info for the 81 series...

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/main.htm

From the troubleshooting page...

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200708/20070810173818000/EN/6_sub.htm

Scroll down to "Image is not stable and may
appear to vibrate when you have a computer connected to the PC input".

Your TV supports multiscan display functions within the following frequency domain:
Horizontal frequency (kHz) 30~60
Vertical frequency (Hz) 60~75
PC Maximum refresh rate (at 60 Hz) 1920 x 1080

Is this simply a reflection of computer display limitations, or...

RC

(hey, if this post appears ridiculously pedestrian, what can I say...I was a Chemistry major...the A/V field is not my forte)

It is just Samsung stating what the limitations are of the multiscan feature of panel. For DVI single link1920X1080 60Hz is pretty close to its bandwidth limitations already. So the answer to the question is both the panel and DVI limitations.

[Health Nut]

Did someone mention the model numbers for the top three sizes? I'm still looking for the model numbers so I know which one to order... I'd like to order at least one... I think the 70 inch will be priced too high, I'll prob get the 52 or 57 inch....

[bigjohns1997SS]

Don't really get your point. With the two PC input options no one is really forced into anything if they just spend a few bucks at monoprice.


The diffrence for me is.....

4 digital input with no adapters and no analog for any of my devices
3 digital inputs, 1 analog input with 2 adapters 1 on each HDMI and VGA

it's might seem nitpicking to you but i already have a nice IQ 55413 mitsu crt that handles HDTV very well (video games and pc input not so well). So as long as I am nitpicking the TV I really don't see why the VGA port is used as the same compatability requirements could be met with a DVI-I port yet more options for the end user.

Current config if i get/81 series
SATDVR - HDMI1
PS3 - HDMI2
PC - HDMI3 using dvi to hdmi cable
XBOX 360 - VGA adapter to vga port

Optimal config
SATDVR - HDMI1
XBOX360 - HDMI2
PS3 - HDMI3
PC - DVI

See how much cleaner and nicer the bottom one is, and you still have vga compatability.

[mark_1080p]

There are two ways to connect a PC to the 81 series. You can either used D-SUB or DVI. For DVI you connect to the HDMI1 port via DVI/HDMI cable. If you want to use the speakers on the panel when connecting with a PC via HDMI1 then input the stero audio via the DVI IN R-AUDIO-L RCA jacks.Is it possible to connect a laptop to one of these somehow via bluetooth?

[necrolop]

Is it possible to connect a laptop to one of these somehow via bluetooth?

noop

[tombaker]

damn, they used a vga input for a pc input again, are they serious???

Is anyone else worried about the lower brightness rating on these over the 65 series?
until laptops have DVI out....LCD TVs will continue to use D-sub VGA input....and since the almost universal standard for laptops currently is the VGA output....I don't expect a change for years.

[necrolop]

Im not sure what the Issue is here. The TV can accept a PC input via VGA and HDMI/DVI. It seems that some of you are dissapointed that it includes a VGA input, just like almost all other LCDs on the market. Problem being???

[tombaker]

with the 100:000:1 contrast, does this mean we will be seeing better PQ than current plasmas?

well considering a plasma in a brightly lit room is a washed out mess....plasma is not a hard level to overcome.

Really the only thing Plasma has right now are lower prices....and better motion details until such time as 120Hz is the standard.

[LaserEdge]

The diffrence for me is.....

4 digital input with no adapters and no analog for any of my devices
3 digital inputs, 1 analog input with 2 adapters 1 on each HDMI and VGA

it's might seem nitpicking to you but i already have a nice IQ 55413 mitsu crt that handles HDTV very well (video games and pc input not so well). So as long as I am nitpicking the TV I really don't see why the VGA port is used as the same compatability requirements could be met with a DVI-I port yet more options for the end user.

Current config if i get/81 series
SATDVR - HDMI1
PS3 - HDMI2
PC - HDMI3 using dvi to hdmi cable
XBOX 360 - VGA adapter to vga port

Optimal config
SATDVR - HDMI1
XBOX360 - HDMI2
PS3 - HDMI3
PC - DVI

See how much cleaner and nicer the bottom one is, and you still have vga compatability.

I get what you are saying now. Just one issue with your 81 configuration that does not change the point you are making.. PC via HDMI is only offically supported on port HDMI port 1.

[bigjohns1997SS]

until laptops have DVI out....LCD TVs will continue to use D-sub VGA input....and since the almost universal standard for laptops currently is the VGA output....I don't expect a change for years.

The vga standard you speak of applies in business based laptops which is hardly the place you will find either one of these series. Not to mention Desktop based gaming cards and if you head over to the HTPC forum you will see that most HTPC's are desktop based.

Mark, how much would you charge for a glossy\matte similar campaign against vga vs dvi-i ports for pc inputs?

[Rennject X]

Is it possible to connect a laptop to one of these somehow via bluetooth?

It's only a matter of time - and probably not much at that. How hard could it be to plug a unit with an antenna to the back of the tv that your laptop can connect to via bluetooth or some other format?

My Xbox has a wireless connection to the internet and the piece is small and the connection is great.

[Jay-eM]

Samsung 71 Series
40" - $2499
46"- $3199
52" - $4499

The circuit city at miami,fl warehouse has the 71 so you can special order them already. No idea when we'll have them in the stores.

Chances are we won't carry the 81 series even though i hope they show up in the system soon.

[slumpey326]

is circuit city suppose to carry the 81 series, I thought it would only be limited to best buy magnolia

[joeLTron]

If 40" had 180 zones, then that would be simply awesome. I have an awful feeling, though, that 180 might refer to 70" set. I so hope I'm wrong.

BTW, I was told at BB today that 71s and 81s have arrived at their warehouse earlier today and will be displayed in Magnolia in a week or two. I highly doubt this is true, but that's what the guy told me.


Wha...I checked the warehouse yeterday and nothing was there! When I put in an order for it, it said it would be available the first week of september.

[mrjgkelly]

is circuit city suppose to carry the 81 series, I thought it would only be limited to best buy magnolia
No, Circuit City is not supposed to have them; at least not initially.

[CadJoe]

It better take pc via hdmi to dvi and does 1:1 mapping. ive been waiting for this. I know the 65f does it.

Yes, justscan is available in both Component and HDMI, unlike 65f.


Anyone have the physical dimensions for the LN-T5281F?

You want us to PAY for your TV also? Read the last 10 pages of the forum. Has been posted numerous times, along with LINKS to spec pages.

[CadJoe]

until laptops have DVI out....LCD TVs will continue to use D-sub VGA input....and since the almost universal standard for laptops currently is the VGA output....I don't expect a change for years.

The change will be to either HDMI or DisplayPort. Probably DisplayPort since nVidia in onboard with DisplayPort, along with Samsung, AMD, Intel, Dell, Philips, & Analogix.

Nothing wrong with 10.2 Gbit/s with 2560 x 1600 res on single cable.

I'll take a 1920 x 1080 VGA anyday over composite or S-Video.

At least samsung gives us the PC VGA option, unlike some Aquos models.

[Shinraven]

Thanks mate, good to know. Grrrrrrrrrrr :mad: the wait is killing me..!! come on samsung, give us some new info.

ohhh well. off to watch Gordon Ramsey, lol :p


Yes, justscan is available in both Component and HDMI, unlike 65f.




You want us to PAY for your TV also? Read the last 10 pages of the forum. Has been posted numerous times, along with LINKS to spec pages.

[blackboxvr6]

I got a chance to speak to a Samsung staff today that stopped by our shop to buy something, spoke to him about the 71 & 81. 1st time I meet him was over a month a go and back then they had demo of the 71 & 81 at work. I was shopping for the 4665 and of coz asked him for opinion, he told me to wait for Sep since the new model is coming out and it makes a huge difference. Its was that day when I started my research on the 71/81 and found this forum. So today he came in again and of coz I've grabbed him and ask more about the 71/81.
To my suppirce he told me the 71 was a huge difference compare to the 65 in terms of fast action movies and sports, unlike the sharp. The Samsung 120hz is the real deal. Now the 81 which was the main focus of the last 100 pages here. I was supprice to a honest opinion that he gave me "It is alittle bit nicer then the 71 but not by much, only if u do have very dark scene will u see a little bit of a difference and since its the 1st generation LED. I don;t think its worth the premium" Now I have never seen either of the TV my self, and my responds from his remark was "are u sure???????? 1000000000000000000000000:1, no difference???????????????????" I guess I really have see it to belive it, I originally had my mind set on the 81 but now...
LNT4671 can be had for Under $3400, LNT4681 will be $4000k both tax included from local electronic store. No 81 is for only large retail crap. Note both price are pre-bargain price!

[007craft]

I got a chance to speak to a Samsung staff today that stopped by our shop to buy something, spoke to him about the 71 & 81. 1st time I meet him was over a month a go and back then they had demo of the 71 & 81 at work. I was shopping for the 4665 and of coz asked him for opinion, he told me to wait for Sep since the new model is coming out and it makes a huge difference. Its was that day when I started my research on the 71/81 and found this forum. So today he came in again and of coz I've grabbed him and ask more about the 71/81.
To my suppirce he told me the 71 was a huge difference compare to the 65 in terms of fast action movies and sports, unlike the sharp. The Samsung 120hz is the real deal. Now the 81 which was the main focus of the last 100 pages here. I was supprice to a honest opinion that he gave me "It is alittle bit nicer then the 71 but not by much, only if u do have very dark scene will u see a little bit of a difference and since its the 1st generation LED. I don;t think its worth the premium" Now I have never seen either of the TV my self, and my responds from his remark was "are u sure???????? 1000000000000000000000000:1, no difference???????????????????" I guess I really have see it to belive it, I originally had my mind set on the 81 but now...
LNT4671 can be had for Under $3400, LNT4681 will be $4000k both tax included from local electronic store. No 81 is for only large retail crap. Note both price are pre-bargain price!


while ill reserve final judment for when reviews are out and ive seent he set, I agree here. I really really really want to get a 46" and the 81 is just way out of my budget. so its either i buy a 4671 right away, or wait another 3 months fo xmas time to get the 4681 for the price i would pay for a 71 today. I ask myself the questions againa s to why i didnt purchase a 65 series tv, and my answer is "im a gamer, and the tv looks great, but i want 120hz". Well the 71 gives me all that, i just got caught up in the 81 hype (even if its all true). Im switching stance to purchaing a 71, and ill wait for the reviews to see if people can truly convince me to grab an 81 over a 71.

[Makaveli1132]

I'm probably not adding anything new to the discussion but today I stopped by ABT Electronics and talked to one of their staff people. We chatted about the 81 series specs and I finally asked him when they were suppose to come in. I'm in a bit of a dilemma because I can have the 65 for a cheaper price and I can get one immediately or wait until the 81 comes out and have to get it shipped to my dorm at my university. So he looked up when they were suppose to be coming in and he had 2 dates, now before you respond and think that this guy was pulling dates out of his butt I saw the screen and he wasn't lying. 10 units were suppose to be coming in for the LNT4081 on August 20, 15 units on August 27, and the numbers were similar for the bigger sets as well. Of course he also mentioned that these times are not set in stone and that the sets could be delivered earlier or later by about 1-2 weeks. He confirmed what most of you guys have found out and that is that this set is limited and will only be found at certain stores and only sold for the MSRP. Luckily my visit wasn't all in vain because I was able to save myself the remote shipping location fee if I decide to have it shipped to my university dorm.

[pactman]

Hey 007 check out the post of Jay-Em on the Sony XBR4/5 that he posted today about the XBR4 and see what he says. He compares the XBR4 to the Sammy 65 side by side. I went to his CC store today. See what he has to say. I am not a die hard Sony lover. I too am waiting for the 71 to come out to compare with the XBR4. But for right now see what he thinks as for what is to come.

[Admiral Ackbar]

It may be changed now, but my P3 set had 40AM (not AMG or AMWCG) panel option in SM and this stood for 72%

Usually the color gamut comes more from the backlight than the panel. I find it hard to believe Samsung was switching between ccfl and regular for the 61 series.

You guys ought to get a laugh out of this:

I just did an install as a favor to a friend. Bought a brand new 4661f, Onkyo 875 (which can upscale every input to 1080p), Full orb audio system, Oppo 981. Hook all the stuff together with a Harmony 1000. It looks great. Then he goes, oh I need my VCR hooked up too.

Well, the Onkyo even upscaled that to 1080p. But man did it look like ****. :D

I mean, a VCR, come on, the VCR was mono only! I can't believe thats how we used to consume video!

[mark_1080p]

I got a chance to speak to a Samsung staff ... he told me the 71 was a huge difference compare to the 65 in terms of fast action movies and sports, unlike the sharp. ... the 81 ... "is a little bit nicer then the 71 but not by much, only if you do have very dark scene will you see a little bit of a difference I'm not surprised by this if the 71 specs are for real, 25K dynamic CR is a huge improvement and a very high number. My prediction is the 71 series will be the real dark horse in this race, if that number pans out this thing could steal the thunder from the 81 series and perhaps even have less artifacts.

Watch out for the 71 :D.

[mark_1080p]

Mark, how much would you charge for a glossy\matte similar campaign against vga vs dvi-i ports for pc inputs?Guess what? We do not need a campaign, since Sammy gave a choice.

For gloss/matte, there are no Sammy choices :(.

As far as abolishing the VGA port, I am using it right now on the 4061 as my computer monitor, once you get the fine lock dialed in using an NIST test pattern with 1 pixel checkerboard (found in their home theater folder I believe), this screen looks fantastic as a 1920x1080 monitor over good old vga, and no overscan.

[jp_tech]

Hey guys! I have been reading this forum for a little while and I just registered because I noticed Amazon has the 71 series available now so I wanted to just let you all know, if you didn't already. I am not sure if posting the prices is allowed so I will just say they seem to be fairly reasonable, not really discounted yet.

[mark_1080p]

It's only a matter of time - and probably not much at that. How hard could it be to plug a unit with an antenna to the back of the tv that your laptop can connect to via bluetooth or some other format?

My Xbox has a wireless connection to the internet and the piece is small and the connection is great.Yea, I was hoping there was some device that could input USB bluetooth (receiver) and output DVI or vga to the TV. Then one could carry their laptop around and hook up, drive the screen with the laptop cpu and even get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Why should we be dealing with cables anyway, Hell its 2007 already!

[CadJoe]

Why should we be dealing with cables anyway, Hell its 2007 already!

Remotes are still IR too. Why can't they be bluetooth, with internet updates, and eliminate all these CODES !!

Lets put this equipment in a closet, which can be secured from snatch & grabs, which can be anywhere in the house to xmit video to TV.

The video feed could be received by multiple TVs in any room.

[MordredKLB]

Yea, I was hoping there was some device that could input USB bluetooth (receiver) and output DVI or vga to the TV. Then one could carry their laptop around and hook up, drive the screen with the laptop cpu and even get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Why should we be dealing with cables anyway, Hell its 2007 already!You guys need to keep dreaming. The bandwidth of a Bluetooth 3.0 (which isn't out yet!) is 480Mbit/sec. That sounds like a lot, until you look at the bandwidth needed for DVI (single mode for 1920x1080 @ 60Hz) which is 3.7 Gbit/sec. So the fastest current spec for Bluetooth is only a little more than 7x slower than what's needed.

[joeLTron]

I got a chance to speak to a Samsung staff ... he told me the 71 was a huge difference compare to the 65 in terms of fast action movies and sports, unlike the sharp. ... the 81 ... "is a little bit nicer then the 71 but not by much, only if you do have very dark scene will you see a little bit of a difference

I just ordered the 71 from BB...helps that I work in Magnolia too. Still don't have the 81's in stock, but im assuming they'll be here soon. I checked on them yesterday and we didnt have the 71's...checked today and there they were!

[____]

I'm not surprised by this if the 71 specs are for real, 25K dynamic CR is a huge improvement and a very high number. My prediction is the 71 series will be the real dark horse in this race, if that number pans out this thing could steal the thunder from the 81 series and perhaps even have less artifacts.

Watch out for the 71 :D.

Keep dreaming. 71 has absolutely no chance at all against 81 series. Maybe the difference won't be huge under bright lights while displaying some bright hd material?

[CadJoe]

7x slower than what's needed.

That's why Samsung is integrating 802.11n.

But the remote control can be bluetooth.

[sharpjunkie]

Hey guys! I have been reading this forum for a little while and I just registered because I noticed Amazon has the 71 series available now so I wanted to just let you all know, if you didn't already. I am not sure if posting the prices is allowed so I will just say they seem to be fairly reasonable, not really discounted yet.
I'm going to call bs cause of right now I don't see anything on Amazon for the 71 or 81's bud...

Ok vga, you are all forgetting a major component. Samsung and Microsoft are in cahoots when it comes to the 360. Since the only way to get a 1080p output from the 360 is through VGA, then vga is needed. So for all those millions of people that bought a 360 and a HD dvd drive, the only way to get the 1080p would be through VGA. Now for us with the elite, we don't have to worry about it.

For once I agree with Mark, my HTPC is connected through VGA and it looks great. Sure using my graphics card through the dvi to hdmi cable I might get a lot more options with the menu features through HDMI but no real big deal. VGA port looks great using my HTPC so no complaints here...

[mark_1080p]

Keep dreaming. 71 has absolutely no chance at all against 81 series. Maybe the difference won't be huge under bright lights while displaying some bright hd material?Underscore, you have no basis for this statement. The Samsung rep as quoted above, if you believe that post, would have a clue.

I really don't think we know, but the good thing is we shall see soon.

My bet: The 71 and 81 will be more similar than they are different.
The reason: they are both glossmasters :cool: :cool:.

[bronxkid]

He was right, the 71 series is available to buy on amazon. Sometimes amazon search doesn't work great but if you choose tv then lcd then samsung it'll be there at the end. I didn't know if I could post the link so I didn't but the 4071, 4671, and 5271 are now there. Says ships in 2-3 weeks.


I'm going to call bs cause of right now I don't see anything on Amazon for the 71 or 81's bud...

Ok vga, you are all forgetting a major component. Samsung and Microsoft are in cahoots when it comes to the 360. Since the only way to get a 1080p output from the 360 is through VGA, then vga is needed. So for all those millions of people that bought a 360 and a HD dvd drive, the only way to get the 1080p would be through VGA. Now for us with the elite, we don't have to worry about it.

For once I agree with Mark, my HTPC is connected through VGA and it looks great. Sure using my graphics card through the dvi to hdmi cable I might get a lot more options with the menu features through HDMI but no real big deal. VGA port looks great using my HTPC so no complaints here...

[tombaker]

The vga standard you speak of applies in business based laptops which is hardly the place you will find either one of these series. Not to mention Desktop based gaming cards and if you head over to the HTPC forum you will see that most HTPC's are desktop based.

every single laptop down to the 300 to 400 dollar jobs...has a VGA out. The dirt cheap ATI Mobility RADEON XPRESS 200 which is a Toshiba $250 laptop from last Thanksgiving has a VGA out.

So where you think it not universal as a standard for laptops is really a joke. Just about any laptop will drive an LCD by itself or as a second giant monitor.

[tombaker]

I'm not surprised by this if the 71 specs are for real, 25K dynamic CR is a huge improvement and a very high number. My prediction is the 71 series will be the real dark horse in this race, if that number pans out this thing could steal the thunder from the 81 series and perhaps even have less artifacts.

Watch out for the 71 :D.

Is going from 15K to 25K-1 on Dynamic contrast a big difference? I tend to doubt it. I have seen high C/R sets which put out gray whites.

Some of this spec stuff is like saying I have a speaker system has tweaters that accurately go up to 25,000hz....then another guy saying mine go up to 40K, so they are way better.

Meanwhile your ears max out at 20K and more likely 16K.

We are at a point where Contrast ratings mean nothing....and what is important is the quality of the Contrast as displayed. Who cares if you have a high number...but can not display true white.

[sharpjunkie]

He was right, the 71 series is available to buy on amazon. Sometimes amazon search doesn't work great but if you choose tv then lcd then samsung it'll be there at the end. I didn't know if I could post the link so I didn't but the 4071, 4671, and 5271 are now there. Says ships in 2-3 weeks.
Yeah my bad. You can find it in the search engine you just have to put exactly this..

LNT4071f or LNT4671f or LNT5271f


lol I was leaving off the "f" for f sakes.

[007craft]

is there a 71 owners thread up yet? I want to see some impressions.

[hyslopc]

The Samsung rep who expressed reservations about the 81 series may have been responding to manufacturing restraints. We don't know yet, but for all we know Samsung maybe has severe manufacturing limitations with the 81 series. If so, it would be smart for their reps to push the 71 series, rather than watching scores of people sit in line for the 81 series, only to get sick of the wait and end up buying something else. Just a theory - no idea if this is the case or not.

[vtms]

This is regarding Samsung's rep comment. It's not impossible that 81 Series is only a little bit better than 71 Series. Even though it is well documented that two-stage light modulation technology works, it is entirely possible that Samsung has botched its own implementation, severely limiting the true potential of this technology. Even if 81 Series turns out to be just like the rest of the LCD junk, I'm confident that sooner or later some big display manufacturer will do the right thing and license Dolby HDR technology which is known to take full advantage of the potential of 2-stage modulation.

[westa6969]

Usually the color gamut comes more from the backlight than the panel. I find it hard to believe Samsung was switching between ccfl and regular for the 61 series.

You guys ought to get a laugh out of this:

I just did an install as a favor to a friend. Bought a brand new 4661f, Onkyo 875 (which can upscale every input to 1080p), Full orb audio system, Oppo 981. Hook all the stuff together with a Harmony 1000. It looks great. Then he goes, oh I need my VCR hooked up too.

Well, the Onkyo even upscaled that to 1080p. But man did it look like ****. :D

I mean, a VCR, come on, the VCR was mono only! I can't believe thats how we used to consume video!
What is amazing is that you put together this terrific system and he stays with the Oppo? I own the Oppo but it now goes unused since in reality is it cannot match and HD DVD or Blu-Ray including it's upconverts.

Come on the Toshiba isn't all that expensive to have the best of both and TrueHD sound which the Oppo cannot match. See this time and again where someone spends $4K+ and then their afraid to spend more than $200 on an HD Player. I own the Toshiba and the Samsung 1200 BD and have no use for the Oppo. Perhaps he's waiting for the third gen player in October?

[Andrew67]

Underscore, you have no basis for this statement. The Samsung rep as quoted above, if you believe that post, would have a clue.

Mark, ignore this loser. This guy has been banned from this forum so many times, yet he keeps coming back to tout the 81 as the greatest technology to ever grace the electronics world. He sits alone in a dark room stroking his unmentionables dreaming about the 81. Sad really.

Welcome back Sampo. Now get lost, again.

[borf]

Not sure what you mean. I mean I can see not being able to always interpolate to make it look better, but the screen is indeed going at 120hz. Is that what youre trying to say.

I just realized something. I hope each TV has the same number of regions, just smaller, cause if they scale the number of regions based on size, then the 46 has like 60 and the 40in has even fewer. I geuss were back at square one, got excited for nothing. :/

I think its pretty clear by now 81s don't interpolate:

"LedMotionPlus: backlight scanning anti-blur technology" -

Backlight scanning is a variant of black frame insertion. No interpolation there.
(The 71s should interpolate and both methods reduce blur so i wonder why numerous sources only mention the 71s as having this benefit. Darkhorse indeed?)

And if they changed the number of backlight regions based on size wouldn't that mean bigger size = higher tech.

[Shaitan]

"Since the only way to get a 1080p output from the 360 is through VGA, then vga is needed"

The scuttlebutt I am hearing now says that very soon, new XBox 360s are gonna come with HDMI.

[jp_tech]

Yeah my bad. You can find it in the search engine you just have to put exactly this..

LNT4071f or LNT4671f or LNT5271f


lol I was leaving off the "f" for f sakes.

That's how I searched for it when I found it on there.

[Admiral Ackbar]

What is amazing is that you put together this terrific system and he stays with the Oppo? I own the Oppo but it now goes unused since in reality is it cannot match and HD DVD or Blu-Ray including it's upconverts.

Come on the Toshiba isn't all that expensive to have the best of both and TrueHD sound which the Oppo cannot match. See this time and again where someone spends $4K+ and then their afraid to spend more than $200 on an HD Player. I own the Toshiba and the Samsung 1200 BD and have no use for the Oppo. Perhaps he's waiting for the third gen player in October?

I told him if he got one it would look like he could dive into the TV, but he doesn't want to pick a horse in the VHS/Beta, I mean HDDVD/Blu-ray Race.

[dpwilgreen]

Does anybody know how long it takes for companies like Amazon to drop the prices on these new sets? Specifically the 5271 I'm interested in?

[phigment]

Hahah.. I love it. You can buy the TV from Amazon, yet Samsung still doesn't have it on their website. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Yeah, I know there is the quick start guide, but it still doesn't show up in any searches or product lines.

[____]

Underscore, you have no basis for this statement. The Samsung rep as quoted above, if you believe that post, would have a clue.

I really don't think we know, but the good thing is we shall see soon.

My bet: The 71 and 81 will be more similar than they are different.
The reason: they are both glossmasters :cool: :cool:.

Mr. Matte, what samsung rep? Do you mean that fud that someone is spreading here? 81 series has over 40000:1 static contrast, 71 has 2000:1. What makes you think that 81 and 71 series would be similar in terms of performance? What are you even doing here if you don't have anything else to say than complain about gloss?

[alex4412]

"Since the only way to get a 1080p output from the 360 is through VGA, then vga is needed"

The scuttlebutt I am hearing now says that very soon, new XBox 360s are gonna come with HDMI.

Not hearing, they are going to be coming out with HDMI for the Premium...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/08/microsoft-officially-adds-hdmi-to-xbox-360-premium/

[bpt8056]

Hey guys! I have been reading this forum for a little while and I just registered because I noticed Amazon has the 71 series available now so I wanted to just let you all know, if you didn't already. I am not sure if posting the prices is allowed so I will just say they seem to be fairly reasonable, not really discounted yet.

Okay, I found the 40" of the 71 series at Amazon. Here's the link (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT4071F-40-Inch-1080P-HDTV/dp/B000U9ZCQS******sr_1_1/102-0434276-6772921?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1187273596&sr=8-1).

[vtms]

Hahah.. I love it. You can buy the TV from Amazon, yet Samsung still doesn't have it on their website. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.Oh, you're not mistaken. It's the new Samsung's marketing strategy: "If we build it, they ought to find it and buy it."

[NeedHDTV]

71 series is up on Buy com for much cheaper then Amazon. Haven't heard how Buy com is with tvs.

[bigjohns1997SS]

every single laptop down to the 300 to 400 dollar jobs...has a VGA out. The dirt cheap ATI Mobility RADEON XPRESS 200 which is a Toshiba $250 laptop from last Thanksgiving has a VGA out.

So where you think it not universal as a standard for laptops is really a joke. Just about any laptop will drive an LCD by itself or as a second giant monitor.

LOL, you are comparing POS laptops with a top of the line LCD, hilarious.

And yet you are still failing to miss the whole point is a simple adapter will still allow that VGA port on your laptop to work.

[skyehill]

71 series is up on Buy com for much cheaper then Amazon. Haven't heard how Buy com is with tvs.


Hmm, I found the 52 inch 71 model on Amazon and Buy.com and the difference in price is about 800 more on Amazon.

[taurus2007]

71 series is up on Buy com for much cheaper then Amazon. Haven't heard how Buy com is with tvs.
I think the price from amazon is MSRP (46") and it says that it won't be shipped for a few weeks. I am sure once amazon actually has it in stock, the price should go down a little. And besides, buy.com doesn't have it in stock anyway so why not wait for a few weeks more and see what happens. ;)

[vtms]

I created 71 Series thread. Let's stick to discussing 81 Series here from now on. Thanks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11323388#post11323388

[rbarg]

I created 71 Series thread. Let's stick to discussing 81 Series here from now on. Thanks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11323388#post11323388

I think this attempt to squelch and censor talk about the 71 series is short sighted, if not arbitrary, for numerous reasons:

1. Other models of Sony and Sharp are discussed on this site and compared, feature for feature, with numerous Samsung models. Other models of Samsung should, all the more, be fair game for discussion.

2. While this is an 81 anticipation thread, the rollout of the 71 is highly relevant to the rollout of the 81 and gives hints and clues about how the former will be marketed. For those interested in price and who isn't, the discounts available on the 71 vs. the 81 might provide clues to those seeking to gauge what limited distribution is and what the seal of approval on ABT's site, "authorized Internet dealer" means.

3. Many have pointed out that the 71 series may be a better overall value than the 81. Much has been discussed about whether the bang for the buck price point for the "local dimming" is worth it. What better way to do this than compare the two. It may be that the anticipation is overblown - probably not - but why not have at it.

4. It may be that supply of the 71 vs. the 81 may cause a consumer to purchase the 71 - for example, if the 81 proves impossible to get at a reasonable price (or any price). Knowing about the 71 w/out having to flip between forums is helpful.

There are obvious synergies and common linage between the two LCD lines. For me, at least, much of this is about connecting the dots. Telling those interested to take their conversation elsewhere is presumptuous and makes it harder for forum members to get an overall feel about how the 81 series is being marketed.

[Skindig]

Originally posted by necrolop
OMG its 180 zones? 3 times what we all thought, I hope we can confirm this!
24hz input is also confirmed, BUT It does concern me that they do not mention 120hz, odd.

Hey folks, that LED grid graphic is our own, not Samsung's. We created it based on the less-than-complete info available to us when we wrapped up our fall catalog several weeks ago. Please don't assume that this model or any of the 81-series TVs has an LED grid with exactly 180 sections.

My contact at Samsung has told me the grid numbers are proprietary, so he's unable to share them. He also said the backlight scanning feature improves motion-handling to an extent similar to 120Hz refresh, but it's not the same technology.

Steve (at Crutchfield)

[____]

I think this attempt to squelch and censor talk about the 71 series is short sighted, if not arbitrary, for numerous reasons:

71 series talk is not needed here. It's just a step up from 65 series. Many people don't understand 81 series tech so talking about 71 would make getting some useful information out from this thread even harder.

[____]

My contact at Samsung has told me the grid numbers are proprietary, so he's unable to share them. He also said the backlight scanning feature improves motion-handling to an extent similar to 120Hz refresh, but it's not the same technology.

OK. So my original info still stands true. 64 zones for 40", 117 zones for 52" and 192 zones for 70".

[vtms]

I think this attempt to squelch and censor talk about the 71 series is short sighted, if not arbitrary, for numerous reasons:

I'm sorry but 71 Series has nothing to do with 81 Series. 71 Series is more like 65 Series yet, for some strange reason, people continue to discuss 71 Series in this thread as if 71 Series was a matte version of 81 Series. These are completely different models and they should have separate threads for the sake of clarity and convenience.

[WaldorfSalad]

Is it safe to assume that underscore is a reincarnation of go81?

[vtms]

I'm looking forward to picture threads.
Taking good pictures of 81 series could be interesting. Too much bloom, detail crush etc.
Yeah, get ready for a bunch of "This picture looks awful. 81 Series must be garbage" comments. :rolleyes: Perhaps posting pictures of this set isn't such a hot idea after all. ;)

[wtr_wkr]

Is it safe to assume that underscore is a reincarnation of go81?
Let's do a test. Hey ____________, what rate is 24p refreshed at?

[____]

what rate is 24p refreshed at?

81 series=24p@48hz.

[vtms]

OK. So my original info still stands true. 64 zones for 40", 117 zones for 52" and 192 zones for 70". I imagine you found this on Samsung's Korean page? Could you please post a link?

[taurus2007]

Is it safe to assume that underscore is a reincarnation of go81?
Oh no... Here we go again! :rolleyes:

[Health Nut]

Underdog!!! Is that you?

I wonder what the price of the 70 inch will be? I'm also not too happy about the dfference in price between the 52 and 57 incher if it really is $3,000 more? So if the 70 incher goes for $9,000.00 or so, why bother. Seems like the 52 incher is the one to get....

[jksgvb]

Originally posted by necrolop


Hey folks, that LED grid graphic is our own, not Samsung's. We created it based on the less-than-complete info available to us when we wrapped up our fall catalog several weeks ago. Please don't assume that this model or any of the 81-series TVs has an LED grid with exactly 180 sections.

My contact at Samsung has told me the grid numbers are proprietary, so he's unable to share them. He also said the backlight scanning feature improves motion-handling to an extent similar to 120Hz refresh, but it's not the same technology.

Steve (at Crutchfield)

I was thinking it was Crutchfield's image. I think Samsung would want to keep the backlight resolution an even multiple of 64 so that widescreen and 4:3 images can fit onto the screen without illuminating border areas.

[____]

I wonder what the price of the 70 inch will be? So if the 70 incher goes for $9,000.00 or so, why bother. Seems like the 52 incher is the one to get....

Converting from Euro price 70" should cost about $40k-45k. 52" has best value.

[skyehill]

71 series talk is not needed here. It's just a step up from 65 series. Many people don't understand 81 series tech so talking about 71 would make getting some useful information out from this thread even harder.

Cool, yet another person I get to put on ignore.

[necrolop]

Can someone confirm the 48hz ? What a bummer, No interpolation, thats ok though, but having to switch modes from 60hz to 48hz makes me wonder if this tv will even bother for 60hz sources to pull down to 24hz.

Also, 64 regions for the 40", how many for the 46"? And where is this info coming from.
Thanks

[mark_1080p]

Is going from 15K to 25K-1 on Dynamic contrast a big difference? I tend to doubt it. I have seen high C/R sets which put out gray whites.

Some of this spec stuff is like saying I have a speaker system has tweaters that accurately go up to 25,000hz....then another guy saying mine go up to 40K, so they are way better.

Meanwhile your ears max out at 20K and more likely 16K.

We are at a point where Contrast ratings mean nothing....and what is important is the quality of the Contrast as displayed. Who cares if you have a high number...but can not display true white.Well, I would think its significant, it definitely was significant in the past year where Samsung has nearly doubled that number so another doubling I would think would be very significant.

I don't think we have any reason to believe that Sammy whites will be grey, and I expect that all the gain in CR will be at the low end anyway, no one wants brighter displays, although Samsung is not publishing its brightness spec for the 71 as far as I know.

As far as the static being much higher for the 81, yes that is a huge difference but again this will tend to show up under dark room conditions. All I'm saying is that the 71 may be very competititive with the 81 for all but very dark room conditions. We shall see, but I would not discount this series just because all the 81 hype.

[illdefined]

I think this attempt to squelch and censor talk about the 71 series is short sighted, if not arbitrary, for numerous reasons:

1. Other models of Sony and Sharp are discussed on this site and compared, feature for feature, with numerous Samsung models. Other models of Samsung should, all the more, be fair game for discussion.

2. While this is an 81 anticipation thread, the rollout of the 71 is highly relevant to the rollout of the 81 and gives hints and clues about how the former will be marketed. For those interested in price and who isn't, the discounts available on the 71 vs. the 81 might provide clues to those seeking to gauge what limited distribution is and what the seal of approval on ABT's site, "authorized Internet dealer" means.

3. Many have pointed out that the 71 series may be a better overall value than the 81. Much has been discussed about whether the bang for the buck price point for the "local dimming" is worth it. What better way to do this than compare the two. It may be that the anticipation is overblown - probably not - but why not have at it.

4. It may be that supply of the 71 vs. the 81 may cause a consumer to purchase the 71 - for example, if the 81 proves impossible to get at a reasonable price (or any price). Knowing about the 71 w/out having to flip between forums is helpful.

There are obvious synergies and common linage between the two LCD lines. For me, at least, much of this is about connecting the dots. Telling those interested to take their conversation elsewhere is presumptuous and makes it harder for forum members to get an overall feel about how the 81 series is being marketed.

i agree, what discussion would be complete without talk of direct competitors and neighboring tier models? gotta keep perspective.

[____]

i agree, what discussion would be complete without talk of direct competitors and neighboring tier models? gotta keep perspective.

Well that's the problem here. 81 series has no direct competitors. The market is 81 series and the rest.

[CadJoe]

81 series has over 40000:1 static contrast

Where did you get this static contrast ratio from? First I've seen this.

If that's true, then the 81 is WAY better than the 71 at 2000:1.

The 71 is the best CCFL backlight CR, so if the 81 LED is a little better than the best with the first attempt, then that is excellent.

[Alex the Great]

Usually the color gamut comes more from the backlight than the panel. I find it hard to believe Samsung was switching between ccfl and regular for the 61 series.

You guys ought to get a laugh out of this:

I just did an install as a favor to a friend. Bought a brand new 4661f, Onkyo 875 (which can upscale every input to 1080p), Full orb audio system, Oppo 981. Hook all the stuff together with a Harmony 1000. It looks great. Then he goes, oh I need my VCR hooked up too.

Well, the Onkyo even upscaled that to 1080p. But man did it look like ****. :D

I mean, a VCR, come on, the VCR was mono only! I can't believe thats how we used to consume video!

Thank you, this is enough to make even cat laugh and cry at the same time :)
Please note that BL is part and parcel of any LCD panel. BTW if you sure that friend of yours has 61F with 92% panel you can alternate 61s SM options to much 65s settings. So you may end up with nonglossy 65F unit. IMHO

[CadJoe]

hmm, the 4671 up and disappeared on buy.com. One minute the search found it, next minute it was gone.

However, you can search for their SKU #, and find it. 205020078

.

[Alex the Great]

OK. So my original info still stands true. 64 zones for 40", 117 zones for 52" and 192 zones for 70".

IMO can't 117, has to be even...

[phigment]

IMO can't 117, has to be even...

Why can't there be 13x9 zones? That equates to 117.

[smaybee]

IMO can't 117, has to be even...


Why not 13 x 9?, and since presumably they are rectangular zones they can be sized properly to achieve the 16:9 screen geometry.

oops, phigment beat me to it :)

[rfalls]

Samsung is so confusing. New models were apparently announced. See story below from today's Engadget:

Samsung announces F8 LCD lineup at IFA

Among many other things, Samsung has unveiled its F8 series of oh-so-sexy LCDs at IFA in Berlin. Focusing on the LE46F86BD in particular, this display touts 100MHz Motion Plus technology to sharpen up those images, 1080p support, a baffling 25,000:1 contrast ratio, and a superCLEAR panel coating to boot. Furthermore, you'll find a USB 2.0 port, a trio of HDMI 1.3 sockets, an eight-millisecond response time, and CCFL backlighting. Notably, this set looks awfully similar to the 71 / 81-series that Sammy loosed last month, so the possibility of a name change to suit different markets could be the case here -- nevertheless, we'll keep an eye out for pricing and availability details.

[Alex the Great]

Yes, it is possible... Sorry, my mistake.

BTW AFAIK F8 is European 71F and 81F has F9 codename

[mark_1080p]

Whoa, if they are not scaling the zones with screen size, the 40 will be far worse than the larger screens. Why not just have the same number of zones for each size, and scale by the number of LED clusters per zone? Doesn't make sense.

[tombaker]

My bet: The 71 and 81 will be more similar than they are different.
The reason: they are both glossmasters :cool: :cool:.

I sure wish the 71 was matte....the 81 was gloss and they came out with a 75 as gloss at some other point

[mark_1080p]

As someone else mentioned, it would have made sense to name these the 75 and 85 series.
If you look back on the CES 2007 pics, you will find an 81 series pictured inside a 61 series box and matte screen. I wonder if at some point Sammy was thinking of a matte 81, but that water is over the dam.

[tombaker]

Originally posted by necrolop


Hey folks, that LED grid graphic is our own, not Samsung's. We created it based on the less-than-complete info available to us when we wrapped up our fall catalog several weeks ago. Please don't assume that this model or any of the 81-series TVs has an LED grid with exactly 180 sections.

My contact at Samsung has told me the grid numbers are proprietary, so he's unable to share them. He also said the backlight scanning feature improves motion-handling to an extent similar to 120Hz refresh, but it's not the same technology.

Steve (at Crutchfield)

your guyz art department has to be the best out there, as it for sure looked like it was generated by Samsung. I posted courtesy of Crutchfield.com on the posts.
It won't be a very proprietary number for long....as all it takes is someone opening them up, or a quick look at the service manual.

[backyardcamper]

Here is the 50MB PDF manual, there is no power consumption number provided:

downloadcenter(dot)samsung(dot)com(slash)content(slash)UM(sl ash)200708(slash)20070810184320390_BN68-01308A-00L03-0730.pdf

Replace (slash) with '/' and (dot) with ".", this stupid forum doesn't allow me post a link.

I'm kinda dispointed someone posted earlier saying 4081 would use 250W.

[mark_1080p]

4 more posts and you can post a link.
Those power numbers are always max, I use about 80 watts on the 4661.
You can turn down the backlight, even with an LED model I presume.

[MordredKLB]

Link to PDF Manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200708/20070810184320390_BN68-01308A-00L03-0730.pdf)

[tombaker]

Well, I would think its significant, it definitely was significant in the past year where Samsung has nearly doubled that number so another doubling I would think would be very significant.


using my Audio analogy....a double for reproduction of highs by the tweeter from

Gen1: 2000 to 4000 is significant.

Gen2: 4000 to 8000 is significant

Gen3: 8000 to 16000 is signficant.

Gen4:16000 to 32000 significant to audiophiles.....probably significant to most.....not noticeble by many.

Gen5: 32000 to 64000 Not significant unless you are a dog.

I am saying that we are pretty much at Gen4 above for LCD contrast. I think the 71 may get over the 20K level in my Audio analogy....and that any more improvements are not going to be dramatic. You can double them up again over the 71 or 81 and you won't be able to tell...even though the number is double.

I think Contrast level is done with the introduction of 81. That that nothing will improve it to any level of significance.

How close the 71 is to the 81 is in question...but its gonna be close....and many won't be able to see the difference. Which is why the 71 should have been a Matte screen....then it would have been an easy difference. And they could have introduced a 75 with Gloss at a price jump.

The good news is the 81 is not a huge leap in price over the 71....and in two years or so....they will all be LED.

We are near the point of a mature technology....where the next years model is not a huge jump of performance over the last....and everything added is a nice to have feature.

Today the new generation is such a jump over the last....you almost NEED the new generation.....that technology ramp cycle is almost over. And is probably fully over with the 81 and the XBR4....depending on your tastes.

In the CRT world there was a day when you could buy an XBR and be set for a solid 5 years...unless you wanted to change screen size. We are just about there on LCDs if we are not there now.

[mark_1080p]

Here is the 50MB PDF manual ... I'm kinda dispointed someone posted earlier saying 4081 would use 250W.Looking at the manual, the backlight is adjustable and energy savings gives you another level of backlight control, so this thing can be set up to use less power. Now how efficient are LED's? I have heard not so efficient, but there have been improvements of late, and using RGB is better than using white.

Looks like they have kept most of the flexibility of the 61, 65 series in the menus, which is a good thing. The 61,65 really do have a nice menu. I'd like to see a backlight button on the remote though (not the E savings control, which only gives you 4 large backlight steps, the backlight control).

[mark_1080p]

I am saying that we are pretty much at Gen4 above for LCD contrast.

I think Contrast level is done with the introduction of 81. That that nothing will improve it to any level of significance.My take is that the gen we are at depends on the light level in the room. I think current Samsung displays are near the end in daytime or lamp lit room where one could read a newspaper, insofar as native panel CR is concerned (dark room measured). Now dim the lights a bit more and you begin to see some deficiencies in black levels. In a very dark room, there is a ways to go yet but this jump to 25K may bridge the gap considerably, while the LED version should just about do it.

I believe there is considerable room for improvement in a lit living room enviroment though (actual throughput CR including ambient). Imagine a TV that gives great blacks during the day. That would really be something to see. We may in the future see coatings that address absorption of ambient while maintaining throughput from the panel. The LED does not address this, in fact the LED and 65 series make the viewing worse in a lit environment.

Since there are millions of people who really do most of their watching this way, and given the potential to impress people in the store lit environs, moving forward with absorption coatings would be more exciting to me than 100,000:1 contrast, 10K static would be more than enough for me. When we get to 10K static, local dimming IMO will not be necessary. I just hope that local dimming does not stifle the necessary research and development effort necessary to increase native static without employing the LOCAL DIMMING GIMMICK.

[necrolop]

So, the manual mentions nothing of 1080p24, 48hz or 120hz. Soo... ...

[MordredKLB]

So, the manual mentions nothing of 1080p24, 48hz or 120hz. Soo... ...To be fair the XBR4 manual mentions nothing about 120Hz or how 1080p24 is displayed. These are manuals written for basic TV watchers who want to hook up their sets, not people who know what Hz even means.

[Alex the Great]

So, the manual mentions nothing of 1080p24, 48hz or 120hz. Soo... ...

I think we need a service manual for this. Im also interested in type of VP used. Any comments on this?

[necrolop]

To be fair the XBR4 manual mentions nothing about 120Hz or how 1080p24 is displayed. These are manuals written for basic TV watchers who want to hook up their sets, not people who know what Hz even means.


true, but atleast Sony mentions it elsewhere, samsung has been pretty good at being ambiguous about their TVs.

[satirev]

I think we need a service manual for this. Im also interested in type of VP used. Any comments on this?

Let's hope it is not DNIE. People often forget that only half of your PQ is the display and the other half is the video processing. Sadly, in the past, Samsung has had some of the worst with their DNIE. It is way oversharp and exaggerates motion artifacts among other things. However, I am hopeful that this 120Hz thing is a sign that they actually paid someone for some quality VP. Even better would be if they would let someone like Syntax use this panel (assuming the IMLED thing lives up to the hype) along with the Realta. If you saw what they did with that cheap panel in the 747 you would be impressed.

[Haight]

On page 30 of the manual, it states there is a menu option to allow you to view the LED enhancement compared to no enhancement. I guess like the DNI-e demo on the 61,65 series, which is also still available on the 81 series too.

[glow11]

http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/707gear/

An interesting read. Do we know if the 81 does anything to reduce blur?

[Slivers]

http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/707gear/

An interesting read. Do we know if the 81 does anything to reduce blur?


LED based lighting does not have the inherant problem CCFL does in creating "ghosting". The need to go to 120Hz doesn't exist and the motion blur should be as good or better than most 120Hz CCFL implementations.

[DArtTex]

I think Contrast level is done with the introduction of 81. That that nothing will improve it to any level of significance.

Not true. At CES this year Sharp unveiled a 37in with 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. And I forget where i read it but the Sony microfilm displays are supposed to gave contasts higher than the 81 Samsung. But one has to keep in mind that contrast ration is just a number. There is no industry standard of measuring contrast ratio, so to one manufacturer 20.000:1 or 25,000:1 may be the same as another manufacturer who rates theirs at 15,000:1.

[necrolop]

I think Contrast level is done with the introduction of 81. That that nothing will improve it to any level of significance.



I disagree greatly. Black levels will float on these sets, need a smaller array to not have them float, also these are not HDR.

Also, you should see an OLED, its amazing. There is plenty of room for contrast improvement.

I wish there was a number for black level, cause a contrast ratio really isnt an accurate way to judge it, especially dynamic ratios.

[Enigma]

LED based lighting does not have the inherant problem CCFL does in creating "ghosting". The need to go to 120Hz doesn't exist and the motion blur should be as good or better than most 120Hz CCFL implementations.Still, 120 Hz offers the chance to do 5:5 pulldown for 24 hz input; and 2:2 pulldown for 60 hz inputs. I'm not sure this is being utilized by any LCD's currently running 120 Hz, but I'm sure it will be sooner or later if not. Pio does something similar with their plasmas, displaying at 72 Hz for 3:3 pulldown (though not a multiple of 60; so for smoothest playback you have to turn this feature on and off; 120 could run all the time).

[TrIfOrCe Of ShAd]

I was reading the link posted on pg 103
This link was posted earlier, showing quick set-up info for the 81 series...
(Sorry I can't post links yet, and I'm not spamming to get to 5...)


And on the picture size page it says leaving the TV in 4:3 Mode for over 2hrs might burn-in? LCD Burn-in, is that even possible?

I notice the new link to the PDF manual also states this about burn-in (I'm hoping this is just an error in typing...)

Just wondering if someone could clear this up... (I'm not buying it if it has burn-in, that's the point of getting an LCD over a Plasma...)

[glow11]

I disagree greatly. Black levels will float on these sets, need a smaller array to not have them float, also these are not HDR.

Do you have an HDR source?

[necrolop]

Do you have an HDR source?


Same question could be asked about 120hz.

The answer is, Interpolation.

[vtms]

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/9426/10450/samsung-led-backlit-tv-announcement.phtml
My opinion? I don't believe any of this.

[vtms]

Do you have an HDR source?If you think HDR displays will be useless until native HDR sources come along, you need to read this (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/labs/imager/tr/2007/Rempel_Ldr2Hdr/paper07/Ldr2Hdr/main.pdf). Besides, gaming industry will adopt HDR pretty quickly.

[spincut]

This is regarding Samsung's rep comment. It's not impossible that 81 Series is only a little bit better than 71 Series. Even though it is well documented that two-stage light modulation technology works, it is entirely possible that Samsung has botched its own implementation, severely limiting the true potential of this technology. Even if 81 Series turns out to be just like the rest of the LCD junk, I'm confident that sooner or later some big display manufacturer will do the right thing and license Dolby HDR technology which is known to take full advantage of the potential of 2-stage modulation.

Well i know it was more for show, but if you merely look at their demonstration images posted a bit back the differences look pretty damn large to me, and from a technical standpoint they really should be anyway.

also, whats this crap about zones now? I thought they were all going to have 64 zones (which didnt seem like alot, i would have thought there should be thousands so they dont have to end up dimming or lighting zones that have boht light and dark elements in it, i mean, it would seem like the tv would like a mangled backlit checkerboard).

[elgman]

On Abt's website, at least at the time of this posting they claim that the Samsung LNT4081F is in stock, sorry I can't link it, but the forum won't let me post a link. Just go to the abt website...and check it out!

Home > Video & TV > Televisions (TV) > LCD Flat Panel TV > LNT4081F

I'm still going to wait a little longer but maybe someone else wants to know about it :D.

It's probably not true though :rolleyes:.

[topsolid2k]

bwuahahaha .... i love the retail industry


saw an 81 pre order sold wwwwaaayy below msrp....... (52")


i guess it pays to know people ....


... im almost tempted to buy one and resell ...

[MordredKLB]

LED based lighting does not have the inherant problem CCFL does in creating "ghosting". The need to go to 120Hz doesn't exist and the motion blur should be as good or better than most 120Hz CCFL implementations.Why do you say that? The ghosting (unless I'm misunderstanding what you're talking about) appears to be caused by the image staying on the screen while the Liquid Crystals untwist. I don't see how LED or CCFL changes that.

[Drag'nGT]

Good lord.... over 100 pages.... will this TV be out this month or was it pushed back?

[____]

bwuahahaha .... i love the retail industry

saw an 81 pre order sold wwwwaaayy below msrp....... (52")

... im almost tempted to buy one and resell ...


Yes, you can get discounts on 81 series too. You just have to look a bit harder. About 20%...

[____]

Good lord.... over 100 pages.... will this TV be out this month or was it pushed back?

It's shipping now.

[glow11]

It's shipping now.

From Korea to the US or from retailers to consumers?

[____]

From Korea to the US or from retailers to consumers?

The latter for some sizes and retailers.

[elgman]

Yes, you can get discounts on 81 series too. You just have to look a bit harder. About 20%...
Where's that? I haven't looked that hard but I'm curious.

[____]

Where's that? I haven't looked that hard but I'm curious.

I'm pretty sure that further price talk isn't allowed here. I just cleared that "only MSRP" misconception.

[elgman]

I'm pretty sure that further price talk isn't allowed here. I just cleared that "only MSRP" misconception.
Yeah, but I don't need to know the price :p. Only the place, or is that not allowed either?

[necrolop]

check ebay boys :)

[ciid]

On Abt's website, at least at the time of this posting they claim that the Samsung LNT4081F is in stock, sorry I can't link it, but the forum won't let me post a link. Just go to the abt website...and check it out!

Home > Video & TV > Televisions (TV) > LCD Flat Panel TV > LNT4081F

I'm still going to wait a little longer but maybe som