Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread

[taco2004]

Got the new Crutchfield magazine in today and the 81 series is featured in it.

[vtms]

This video isn't so over compressed:
http://www.samsung.co.kr/tv/media_view.jsp?contentid=116281
Use IE. Those harry potter scenes really do pop.I'm afraid all these videos are too compressed and small to base our opinions on. With that, here's another video ;) from CES07 I'm surprised nobody mentioned before. It shows LED scanning and local dimming. Frankly, I fail to see anything special or "better" there but the narrator insists the improvements were visible when viewed in person. Skip the video to 1:50s for LED scanning and then to 3:10s for local dimming.
http://uk.cinenow.tv/videos/726-2007-samsung-lots-of-new-products-at-2007

[xb1032]

It says that the price of the tv will be starting around 3k. Now I was looking up information on OLED tv's and it said that they are going to be cheaper to make than lcd's so why are the tv's going to cost so much?

And when are they going to be released, I saw a website saying august but so far nothing and there is no information on the samsung website

From all I've read it's going to be years before you can get a 40-60" OLED tv. New technology almost always demands a high price regardless of manufacturing costs. At 52" and below on these sets the price really isn't all that bad until you start at 57". And if you like deep black levels in a darkened room then I doubt any other TV will be in the same league with this TV and the Pioneer Kuro plasmas.

[drew138]

81 series posted up on Vanns with lots of official looking information and pictures. Still haven't found a site offering it for less than msrp?

[davidjschenk]

Hello, forum users,

I know full well that the dynamic contrast ratios on the 71Fs and 81Fs are (putatively) 25000:1 and 100000:1, respectively, but I want to know what the *static* contrasts are. Does anyone know? Please put strong emphasis on the word "know," as I have no use whatsoever for unsubstantiated speculations, especially those that some persons try to fob off as fact.

Thanks for any actual hard facts on this,

David

[jksgvb]

How well do 4:3 and widescreen images fit over those zones?

Good question. As already mentioned, for the 40" set with 64 hypothetical LED arrays, 4:3 and widescreen 2.35:1 material center and fit perfectly over arrays with no overlap. These illustrations show the 52" and 70" sets with a widescreen image overlayed by 4:3:

http://i12.tinypic.com/4p4wnz5.jpg 52"

http://i10.tinypic.com/62ye9n7.jpg 70"

The 52" set displays widescreen with almost no underlap, 4:3 material would underlap the arrays, which would then modulate a portion of the side bars with light. If you could see this in a dark room it might be distracting.

The 70" set centers 4:3 material right over the LED arrays. Interestingly, if Samsung were to bias widescreen material upward 1/2 array, leaving two rows of arrays on the bottom of the widescreen image and one row on top, 2.35:1 material would fit right onto the arrays nicely.:cool:

Of course, this is all hypothetical since Samsung hasn't officially said what their backlight array resolution is. :rolleyes:

[glow11]

davidjschenk. I'd recommend you abandon the forum format, and wait for the official announcement from Samsung then.

[Valkyrie-MT]

81 series posted up on Vanns with lots of official looking information and pictures. Still haven't found a site offering it for less than msrp?
Yeah everyone seems to be selling for MSRP. Obviously, we can't discuss any numbers, but, BB has a discount through the end of today if you become a reward zone member (or something like that). Really a no risk decision because they said the unit would not be in until Sept. 12 so I could cancel if I want before then. So, if there's a sale on labor day, I can get that price or get them to match someone else. So, I bought the LN-T5281F today. Did it all over the phone too. I can't wait to get it. I'll be putting it through its paces with respect to connecting it to my HTPC. I currently have the Samsung 720P 46" DLP (HL-R4667W) which has been OK. Although not as good as the HL-N467W I had before which had true 720P DLP chip.

With respect to the burn in. I don't think Samsung is going to have a problem. They already use LED technology in their DLP TV's. I would hope that Samsung would have any LED burn-in well characerized by now. It's pretty easy to test in a lab. Setup LED's with emission senors for each and plot in excel or something. If there was really an issue with it, I'm sure it's been addressed...

Hey, so when are we going to start the Official 81 series thread. We've got the pics and most of the specs.

-Valkyrie-MT

[Valkyrie-MT]

Oh yeah, and there's an E-Bay store that has some 81 series in stock now. I actually talked to them. Search the completed listings for LN-T5281F.

[Valkyrie-MT]

81 series posted up on Vanns with lots of official looking information and pictures. Still haven't found a site offering it for less than msrp?
If you look at those pics, the bezel looks matte to me. Although the base is definitely glossy.

-Valkyrie-MT

[tombaker]

I made some drawings, roughly to scale, to illustrate these hypothetical backlight array resolutions:


excellent work...thanks....its very very interesting to see that for each set the amount of screen space that is covered is roughly the same. So it appears the bulbs are spaced to what area they effectively light up

[NightmareRec0n]

Any plans for a price drop before Christmas?
$5k for a 50" is a bit pricey...

[taurus2007]

Any plans for a price drop before Christmas?
$5k for a 50" is a bit pricey...

Almost guarantee it but the question is by how much.

[davidjschenk]

davidjschenk. I'd recommend you abandon the forum format, and wait for the official announcement from Samsung then.

Hi glow11,

Yeah, I think you're right. I was hoping perhaps someone, ahh... "knew" someone who "knew" someone who worked for the company and could give hard data, but they have been almost pathologically tight-lipped about these displays.

Well, back to lurking, I guess.

Yours,

David

[CadJoe]

but I want to know what the *static* contrasts are..

davidjschenk. I'd recommend you abandon the forum format, and wait for the official announcement from Samsung then.

Heck, Samsung doesn't even post what they are for the 65 series. All it says is 15k:1, look at the FULL SPECS page, which doesn't tell you crap.

"Supposedly" the 71 is 2000:1 like the 65, and the 81 is 40,000:1 static.

The 81 manual doesn't even show the dynamic contrast.

CadJoe

[rpgmaster1]

Not sure whether to buy the 46" 81 model or the Sony XBR4 model. Guess I'll wait next year to see some respectable price drops on them just before the Super Bowl.

[valoidr]

Not sure whether to buy the 46" 81 model or the Sony XBR4 model. Guess I'll wait next year to see some respectable price drops on them just before the Super Bowl. May have missed it but has anyone besides the one post compared the 71g/81g against the XBR4/5's?

[valoidr]

Heck, Samsung doesn't even post what they are for the 65 series. All it says is 15k:1, look at the FULL SPECS page, which doesn't tell you crap.

"Supposedly" the 71 is 2000:1 like the 65, and the 81 is 40,000:1 static.

The 81 manual doesn't even show the dynamic contrast.

CadJoe I think he made a good point. Ever wonder why static ratios are not given, at least a range thereof. Way too much emphasis is put on that ratio(s). Marketing gimmick of sorts.

[CadJoe]

I think he made a good point. Ever wonder why static ratios are not given, at least a range thereof. Way too much emphasis is put on that ratio(s). Marketing gimmick of sorts.

I can't even find an online retailers specs that show static ratios.

I tried Vanns, Crutchfield, Abt, etc. Nobody mentions static ratios for the 81 series.

Someone posted 40k:1 about 10 pages ago, but he never replied to me where he came up with that #.

I agree, Dynamic is a marketing trick because they can tweak the #'s in their favor based on how they decide they want to do the test.

However, even the static is dependent upon the video image or frame that you are viewing.

CadJoe

[Flash01]

Any One In Vancouver Bc Canada Need A 81 I Got A Guy At Futureshop Who Will Give A Smoking Deal.i Got A Price For My Lnt 52" 81 For Over A Thousand Less Than Retail. Im Not A Salesman And Don't Get Any Benefit From Telling You This,just Love A Good Deal And A Good Salesmen. If You Need A Referral Just Send Me A Private Message.

Cool! Over a thousand less retail then? I was a Futureshop today and I usually don't like to bother asking them about stuff not already out because you know, it's futureshop... Still, I asked 2 guys there today and while they recalled something about 2 new Samsung series, one of them said that they wouldn't carry both. Although he was so vague and confused it doesn't surprise me one bit he was wrong. I'm so glad you got a good price there and I'll be buying mine from them I guess unless I can squeeze a better price elsewhere.

Is it a friend of your giving you employee discount or something like that? Just wondering if I can try to cut a similar deal myself. Can you share your secret with us (or PM me if you can)? :) If not it's OK, I still appreciate you keeping us Canucks up to date.

[NightmareRec0n]

Any price drops planned before Christmas......$5k is a lot for a 50"

[xb1032]

Heck, Samsung doesn't even post what they are for the 65 series. All it says is 15k:1, look at the FULL SPECS page, which doesn't tell you crap.

"Supposedly" the 71 is 2000:1 like the 65, and the 81 is 40,000:1 static.

The 81 manual doesn't even show the dynamic contrast.

CadJoe

If I were to guess i'd say the 81 @ 40k:1 sounds about right but the 71@2k:1 just doesn't sound right when it's supposed to have a dynamic CR of 25k:1.

[____]

If I were to guess i'd say the 81 @ 40k:1 sounds about right but the 71@2k:1 just doesn't sound right when it's supposed to have a dynamic CR of 25k:1.

Contrast as contrast measured by reviewers. 71 series static is the panel contrast. Some 81 models might even measure 100k+:1 static for high contrast scenes. We are dealing with completely another level display here...

[irkuck]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ____
OK. So my original info still stands true. 64 zones for 40", 117 zones for 52" and 192 zones for 70".

I made some drawings, roughly to scale, to illustrate these hypothetical backlight array resolutions:
......



The number of zones is quite low. This again brings question what is the impact of LD vs. possibility of artefacts in real usage. Local dimming has to applied delicately, otherwise artefacts will become visible.

[ciid]

Any price drops planned before Christmas......$5k is a lot for a 50"

Doubtfull.Many have comented these sets are marked up 25% but samsung is doing there best to controll the MSRP at least with the 81 series.Personally i would love to spend 2.5-3k for the 4681f but i cant justify 4k even if its the best tv your gonna get for another year plus.Hopefully monday-tuesday well start seeing people with the sets on hand showing of pics.Never wished it was monday so much before lol.

[HTPC4ME]

If I were to guess i'd say the 81 @ 40k:1 sounds about right but the 71@2k:1 just doesn't sound right when it's supposed to have a dynamic CR of 25k:1.

The static contrast of the 81 will depend on the pattern being displayed. For example, if the ANSI contrast patten happens to fit exactly such that each white square covers an LED zone and each black square covers another LED zone, you will get 100,000:1 static contrast.

[Kamgusta]

This is by no means scientific, but with Samsung LCDs I found useful founding real CRs by a /5.

So:

5'000:1 Dynamic -> 1'000:1 Static

6'000:1 -> 1'200:1

8'000:1 -> 1'500:1

10'000:1 -> 2'000:1

15'000:1 was partially due to the glossy screen, that should add 5000:1 to the equation.
( 15'000:1 - 5'000:1 ) = 10'000:1, so (again) -> 2'000:1
And it is not a secret 61Fs and 65Fs use the same panels.

About 25'000:1 of the new 71s, that's still partially thanks to the glossy coating, so we should get a 20'000:1, and then a 4'000:1 Static. But 4'000:1 sounds to me nevertheless incredible! How did they get it?!

BLU LED makes Dynamic Dimming technology a little more efficient, so I think we should make /6 instead of /5. We should get
100'000:1 -> 17'000:1

40M91s sold in Europe (that already have BLU LED) had "only" a 10'000:1 -> 2000:1 CR, so that (not-so-impressive-as-100k:1) 17'000:1 should make some sense.


Hope we'll see these new sets soon.

[____]

This is by no means scientific, but with Samsung LCDs I found useful founding real CRs by a /5.

40M91s sold in Europe (that already have BLU LED) have "only" a 10'000:1 Static CR, so that (not-so-impressive-as-100k:1) 17'000:1 should make some sense.

Wrong wrong wrong. You can't just divide dynamic contrast to get static contrast. M91 has 10k:1 Dynamic contrast. European 81 series, F96, has 500k:1 dynamic contrast. 81 series has about 100k:1 static contrast(best case).

[Kamgusta]

Wrong wrong wrong. You can't just divide dynamic contrast to get static contrast. M91 has 10k:1 Dynamic contrast. European 81 series, F96, has 500k:1 dynamic contrast. 81 series has about 100k:1 static contrast(best case).You are indeed right, 10'000 was Dynamic, but may I remember you that "a backlight" is a thing, and "a LCD panel" is another one?
Even if they use BLU LED, they are still using the "goo' ol' S-PVA panels" (same ones you will found on 71s, I think).
LEDs are just a different way of outputting a good amount of light for the LCD panel (and not so different, because they use phosphors just like CCFLs do), LED LCD are not a different technology, and there shouldn't be a great difference in Static Contrast.
The leap forward is done by Local-Dynamic-Dimming.
So, if 100'000:1 is their static contrast ratio, Samsung is not telling us something...

[slumpey326]

can someone please post the link to the 71series manual

[____]

So, if 100'000:1 is their static contrast ratio, Samsung is not telling us something...

Well samsung isn't telling us almost anything interesting about 81 series. They don't want to kill 65, 71 etc series sales. Hyping 81 series to death would be a stupid business decision.

[glow11]

So, if 100'000:1 is their static contrast ratio, Samsung is not telling us something...

They haven't told us ANYTHING! :)

[____]

Don't you find this interesting:

http://i19.tinypic.com/62e3vh2.png

First it says infinite contrast ratio(dynamic contrast). And after that 100 000:1 contrast ratio(static).

[tombaker]

Don't you find this interesting:

http://i19.tinypic.com/62e3vh2.png

First it says infinite contrast ratio(dynamic contrast). And after that 100 000:1 contrast ratio(static).

It goes on to say that each Samsung has a small chip of white dwarf to literally absorb unwanted ambient light.

[____]

It goes on to say that each Samsung has a small chip of white dwarf to literally absorb unwanted ambient light.

Time to build that batcave for true 81 series experience?

[Kamgusta]

Infinite because with LEDs set to OFF (that's what Local Dimming is all about) the panel should not emit any light (theorically).

Contrast Ratio is just a ratio between the luminosity of brightest white and the luminosity of darkest black.

If you divide a number by "almost zero", then you get an "infinite" ratio.
This "mathematical trick" was also used in the CRT era (but the truth was, CRTs had just a 500:1 real CR).

That's also why CR given by manufacturers are not so useful: you could only raise the luminosity of the brightest white and still get high contrast values (latest TVs have 600cd/m2! useless.). That's where the screen calibration comes to help...

[____]

This "mathematical trick" was also used in the CRT era (but the truth was, CRTs had just a 500:1 real CR).

Where are you getting these numbers. :rolleyes: CRT has much more static contrast than 500:1...

[Kamgusta]

Where are you getting these numbers. :rolleyes: CRT has much more static contrast than 500:1...Quite the opposite, 17" and 19" CRT desktop were in the ~250:1/~350:1 range (after calibration).
That's also why we need high-quality Contrast Ratios, not high-values Contrast Ratios. ;)

[____]

Quite the opposite, 17" and 19" CRT desktop were in the ~250:1/~350:1 range (after calibration).

Do you mean ansi contrast? Ansi contrast is quite different to static contrast...

[CadJoe]

can someone please post the link to the 71series manual

81 manual here (http://ibbank.net/manual/fileDn_new.asp?file_no=38727).

71 manual here (http://ibbank.net/manual/fileDn_new.asp?file_no=39417).

Amazing what you can find if you change the last 4 numbers.

[vtms]

Again. All local-dimming LCDs output 0 cd/m^2 in a completely dark room. This means that dynamic contrast is infinite. As _____ says, 100K:1 CR sounds more like the "best case" static CR. Obviously this ratio changes depending on the scene and will be much lower than 100K:1 during normal viewing.

Now, Samsung could easily stick "Infinite dynamic CR" label on 81 Series and that wouldn't be a lie. So what exactly is stopping Samsung from doing just that? Maybe the following scenario will help:

Let's say someone stops by BB next year and sees a Samsung model from a previous year with an "Infinite CR" spec. What do you suppose will this potential buyer think? His thought process would probably go something like this: "Why should I upgrade from my old CRT to this year's flat panel model with infinite dynamic contrast ratio that costs $5K if I could spend $2K for the previous model also with infinite dynamic contrast ratio?" See where I'm going with this? I imagine Samsung wants to sell some TVs next year and it will bump the CR spec to above 100K:1 just to lure people into buying these new sets at higher price. Meanwhile, the lowest black level will remain at 0 cd/m^2.

And, BTW, I suspect the reason why Samsung didn't go for a true IMLEDs this year is probably also because they want to sell some TVs next year. Had they gone straight for IMLEDs, there would have been almost no room left for them to improve their LCD technology further so nobody would feel the need to upgrade from that set for many years.

[Kamgusta]

Do you mean ansi contrast? Ansi contrast is quite different to static contrast...ON/OFF. ANSI would be 100:1 or less.

[____]

ON/OFF. ANSI would be 100:1 or less.

So are you saying that CRT has 300:1 dynamic contrast and 100:1 ansi? :rolleyes: Professionally calibrated Sony PVM-20L5 monitor has over 20k:1 on/off contrast and 219:1 4x4 ansi.

[Kamgusta]

So are you saying that CRT has 300:1 dynamic contrast and 100:1 ansi? :rolleyes: Professionally calibrated Sony PVM-20L5 monitor has over 20k:1 on/off contrast and 219:1 4x4 ansi.That is a 5000$ equipment meant for professionals (19"...). By the way, its ON/OFF is 17'600:1, not 20'000:1, and even low-end LCDs are able to exceed a 219:1 ANSI contrast.
Also, CRT Projectors are able to reach 700'000:1 (ON/OFF, of course, they are pretty bad at ANSI).

But we were talking about mainstream CRTs.

[____]

By the way, its ON/OFF is 17'600:1, not 20'000:1, and even low-end

Wrong. 17600:1 rating is just calculated with 0.001 black level. They couldn't measure actual black level.

Check the following link for consumer crt measurements:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3999036&&#post3999036

Verdict: your posts are full of it.

[greenland]

Don't you find this interesting:

http://i19.tinypic.com/62e3vh2.png

First it says infinite contrast ratio(dynamic contrast). And after that 100 000:1 contrast ratio(static).

Sampo is still up to his old tricks of composing his own fake copy. He even posted a fake newspaper clipping, that he created, over on the plasma forum. Call his bluff, make him provide an actual link to the source. He can not.

...

[____]

Call his bluff, make him provide an actual link to the source. He can not.

...
:eek:

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/07/img_1480.jpg

:eek:

[farscaperkevin]

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.

ps. if any of you live near flower mound, the flower mound warehouse has the 46s and the 52s, but not the 40s. Im not sure about the 57s. some stores even have them in stock. Im sure that other stores have them too.

[Kamgusta]

Wrong. 17600:1 rating is just calculated with 0.001 black level. They couldn't measure actual black level.

Check the following link for consumer crt measurements:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3999036&&#post3999036

Verdict: your posts are full of it.Nice find, but even with an "infinite" contrast ratio (only possibile with zero ambient illumination), that 219:1 ANSI (for a 5000$ 19") tells us another story.
Just like 135:1 of Toshiba 34HF84.

[____]

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.

ps. if any of you live near flower mound, the flower mound warehouse has the 46s and the 52s, but not the 40s. Im not sure about the 57s. some stores even have them in stock. Im sure that other stores have them too.

WOW. Could you post some impressions and pics?

[vtms]

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.Here we go. The moment of truth.

[____]

Here we go. The moment of truth.

I'm getting a bit nervous... not:D

[vtms]

I'm getting a bit nervous... not:DAnd I was about to post that hopefully we should be getting some reviews later in the week. :)

[darkninja67]

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.

ps. if any of you live near flower mound, the flower mound warehouse has the 46s and the 52s, but not the 40s. Im not sure about the 57s. some stores even have them in stock. Im sure that other stores have them too.

Congrats on the new set. I hope to see a lot of pics and impressions. I am so hoping this tv is THE one to own.

[SabinVI]

Originally Posted by farscaperkevin
I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.

Wow! Please post pics and review ASAP! I am considering this set as my first ever HDTV / flat-panel purchase. I do keep hearing good things about the new Sony's though...

[greenland]

:eek:

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/07/img_1480.jpg

:eek:\

Still fake. Where is the link. Sampo never changes his stripes, no matter how many times he has been banned.

[____]

\

Still fake. Where is the link. Sampo never changes his stripes, no matter how many times he has been banned.

Could you play nice for a while? Trash 81 after the reviews start to come in.

[vtms]

Sampo never changes his stripes, no matter how many times he has been banned.Dude, nobody cares about any of this, especially while we're waiting for the first review.

[farscaperkevin]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

[____]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

Thanks for the pics! Could you turn the lights off when taking pics of actual content?

[darkninja67]

Looks good turned off

[enator]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

Nice mirror. You can sell all other mirror at home :D

[DSET]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

u got 1??
is there any owners thread made yet?
any reviews comments?

[Flash01]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

Don't let the anti-gloss guys see this! They'll be flippin'.

Thanks a bunch for the pics!

[bgates22]

\

Still fake. Where is the link. Sampo never changes his stripes, no matter how many times he has been banned.

greenland, I was at the Samsung Experience Store yesterday in NYC (at Columbus Circle). I'm almost certain his pictures were taken from that store. There weren't any 81 Series tvs there, though. It's possible that he took a picture of the sheet that was sitting next to the prototype LED tv that has already been discussed in this forum. Again, I doubt these are fake pictures based on what I saw yesterday.

[jksgvb]

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up...


Before powering it on, do you mind taking the back off and counting the backlight arrays?







:)

[bgates22]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

farscaperkevin, thanks a lot for sharing the pictures. I guess that eliminates any remaining uncertainty regarding whether the 81 series would have the glossy screen. Can you also take some pictures with the tv turned on, once you have it set up. Thanks again!

[vtms]

So far, so good. Thanks, farscaperkevin.

The honor of starting the 81 Series owner's thread is all yours.;)

[illdefined]

quick, put in Starwars!

or in you case, Farscape, and tell us if you see any brightness halos around the stars...

congrats on the new toy.

[glow11]

Make Your Bed!!!!

:p

[taurus2007]

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

Don't forget to make your bed first before you start playing with your new shiny toy. :D

[farscaperkevin]

Lights off.

[____]

Any dark content? How's the picture in person?

[greenland]

greenland, I was at the Samsung Experience Store yesterday in NYC (at Columbus Circle). I'm almost certain his pictures were taken from that store. There weren't any 81 Series tvs there, though. It's possible that he took a picture of the sheet that was sitting next to the prototype LED tv that has already been discussed in this forum. Again, I doubt these are fake pictures based on what I saw yesterday.

He posted all the same doctored stuff over on the Pioneer plasma threads, months ago, when he was touting how the new Samsungs LCDs were going to be Plasma killers. He has been banned under several different names, his first being Sampo. His MO stays the same, no matter how often he reappears with a new ID. This time he is trying to pass without a name.

[darkninja67]

Lights off.
Thanks dude

[glow11]

Greenland, please let it go, there are actual pics being posted.

[glow11]

I ran the image of the friends standing around through several curve/contrast/exposure rounds in Photoshop and cannot pick up any LD artifacts...the guy in the black club1080 shirt exhibits no backlight artifacts either in the blacks or the surrounding whites...while this isn't scientific, it seems as though it will be tough to make out any backlight LD artifacts. I can usually pull out very very subtle stuff in photoshop...and I'm finding no LD artifacts whatsoever.

Also the Club180 logo (very fine lines) of white on black, are as light as the broad swaths of white found anywhere else on the image.

[greenland]

Lights off.

I assume that those are pictures out of the box, without any tweaking to correct color etc?. They look cartoonish. I expect that you will be able to calibrate the video to more realistic color representations. Can you take any pictures that shows how it handles shadow details and grayscaling. Thanks.:)

[farscaperkevin]

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.

:D

[gbmannc]

Can you run it in 4:3 mode, just so we can see if the black bars can even be seen?

[greenland]

Greenland, please let it go, there are actual pics being posted.

I plan on it as soon as folks stop debating me about it. If you want to drop it, then start by dropping it, yourself. I just responded to others remarks to me, including yours. I am through making my points, if you folks are through making yours.:)

[bgates22]

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.

:D

In person!?!?! The picture is beautiful through the internet. Congratulations! It looks great!

[greenland]

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.

:D

Those look very good. It looks like, as far as one can tell from online pictures, that it handles the lights on very well. That is impressive, considering how reflective it looked when turned off.

[taurus2007]

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.

:D

The last three pics look beautiful, especially the water.

[glow11]

So "81 Anticipation Thread" seems out of date now, are we going to have a "81 Owners Thread" started?

[taurus2007]

So "81 Anticipation Thread" seems out of date now, are we going to have a "81 Owners Thread" started?

And a calibrating thread too.

[farscaperkevin]

Now for the tv with my window blinds open. Ill calibrate the tv when I get a chance I literally posted as soon as I lugged the thing into my room. didnt even have it out of the box yet. Yes Ill get some 4:3 content up. Yes as soon as I can Ill get something with good blacks in.

[____]

Have you played with the settings yet? Use movie mode, check brightness and contrast settings. Use 6500K(warm) color temperature. Check that led smart is on. :D

[darkninja67]

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.

:D

The colors look superb.

[Chris J]

Now for the tv with my window blinds open. Ill calibrate the tv when I get a chance I literally posted as soon as I lugged the thing into my room. didnt even have it out of the box yet. Yes Ill get some 4:3 content up. Yes as soon as I can Ill get something with good blacks in.


farscaperkevin,

Where did you purchase it?

[speden]

It looks like the strong reflections shown in the first batch of pictures was exaggerated because the camera autofocused on the reflection instead of on the TV frame. You'd need to lock the camera focus on the TV frame to pull off that kind of shot.

[vtms]

I don't know if anyone feels the same way, but there's something strange the way these pictures look. They have this glassy, almost "OLEDy," quality to them, especially that Dubai tower by the sea picture reminds me a little bit of those pictures of Sony OLED at CES07. Is anyone detecting this too or am I seeing things?

Keep them coming, farscaper. Thanks.

[farscaperkevin]

I got it at best buy in flower mound

[____]

I don't know if anyone feels the same way, but there's something strange the way these pictures look.

It's the pure white backlight.

[____]

I got it at best buy in flower mound

Beautiful pictures. Must be 10 times better in person. :D

[glow11]

Definetly not the TV if you are going to have it in front of an unshaded window, other than that though, looks awesome!

[vtms]

The colors look superb.No doubt thanks to 105% NTSC color gamut of LED light.

[glow11]

Where's Flower Mound?

[darkninja67]

I got it at best buy in flower mound

How sharp or detailed does the set look in person?

[gbmannc]

The 4:3 bars look blacker than the bezel!

[darkninja67]

No doubt thanks to 105% NTSC color gamut of LEDs.

I do not doubt that at all. Looks to be very capable in it's range, at least judging from here. Must be a lot better in person

[darkninja67]

The 4:3 bars look blacker than the bezel!

I said that in Tweeter yesterday about the 4665F, was due to the bezel being reflective. It sure does look pitch black to me though.

[greenland]

I don't know if anyone feels the same way, but there's something strange the way these pictures look. They have this glassy, almost "OLEDy," quality to them, especially that Dubai tower by the sea picture reminds me a little bit of those pictures of Sony OLED at CES07. Is anyone detecting this too or am I seeing things?

Keep them coming, farscaper. Thanks.

Yes. Looked pretty much the same way to me, but since it was just out of the box, without any tweaking, I am not putting too much weight on that. How it looks after it is tweaked, is what counts. I am also interested in how well it looks at night, without any lights on. Daytime viewing has always being the LCD strong point. I want to see how it compares to the new Pio Plasmas in the dark.

...o

[DSET]

thanks for the pics man
this set looks amazing
looks close to the OLED pics we got at CES

[vtms]

These pics look more and more promising.

Two humble requests, farscaperkevin:
1) When it gets dark, could you show us how this set looks when displaying a black frame?
2) How much better do you think the PQ looks in person when you compare it to jpegs?

Thanks again.

[darkvader]

Hio farscaperkevin, can you plese tell me if there is a active Cooler like in the first Samsung LED Backlight model, or if they got it passive cooled this time?

[farscaperkevin]

Flower Mound is near Grapevine, wich is in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.

I cannot describe how it looks in person. The picture is excellent. The camera I am using does not even come close to doing justice to the tv.

[greenland]

File Type: jpg DSC_5486.JPG (230.7 KB, 0 views)

Even with the strong light reflection, judging by the desk details, seems to handle shadow details quite well.

...

[vtms]

I cannot describe how it looks in person. The picture is excellent. The camera I am using does not even come close to doing justice to the tv.Perfect answer. :D

[mark_1080p]

Political correctness run amuck ... the silence is deafening.

[greenland]

Flower Mound is near Grapevine, wich is in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.

I cannot describe how it looks in person. The picture is excellent. The camera I am using does not even come close to doing justice to the tv.

Good luck with your new TV. If you have a chance, please take some pictures after dark, without any lights on. Also, give us some feedback on things such as image lag. Has that LCD drawback been eliminated.

...

[greenland]

Political correctness run amuck ... the silence is deafening.

Sorry. I do not grasp your meaning?. What are you referring to?.

[DSET]

Political correctness run amuck ... the silence is deafening.

LoL

[taurus2007]

Sorry. I do not grasp your meaning?. What are you referring to?.

He was bitching about the glossy/glare. :rolleyes: Has been doing that even before 65F came out...

[glow11]

Political correctness run amuck ... the silence is deafening.

Eh?

[vtms]

Yes. Looked pretty much the same way to me, but since it was just out of the box, without any tweaking, I am not putting too much weight on that.
So I'm not alone on this. Good. There's a very good chance that some additional calibration will only make this set look only better.

How it looks after it is tweaked, is what counts. I am also interested in how well it looks at night, without any lights on. Daytime viewing has always being the LCD strong point. I want to see how it compares to the new Pio Plasmas in the dark.Yes, I'm very interested in the comparison against new Pioneer plasmas as well in terms of black level (although I'm not too worried about that one) and especially in terms of grayscale. Maybe there someone out there rich enough to buy both and willing to post his/her results.

[glow11]

If one thing comes out of this endless thread, I hope it's that Mark1080p never has to own an 81 series or even suffer seeing one.
Good luck Mark, and goodnight!

[illdefined]

Sorry. I do not grasp your meaning?. What are you referring to?.

pretty sure he's biting his tongue about seeing the entire room in the glossy screen.

i'd have two windows directly to the right of this tv, it's a fair concern.

[mark_1080p]

Even with the strong light reflection, judging by the desk details, seems to handle shadow details quite well ...First thoughts by any reasonable unbiased person is that this is a daytime disaster. It may turn out to be great in the dark. These pics are shocking, even in bright scenes there is glare.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/1944/lnt4681gx6.jpg

Yes, the pics are appreciated but can the political correctness already.

[vtms]

Political correctness run amuck ... the silence is deafening.Yes. It's super-glossy. We know. :)

[greenland]

So I'm not alone on this. Good. There's a very good chance that some additional calibration will only make this set look only better.

Yes, I'm very interested in the comparison against new Pioneer plasmas as well in terms of black level (although I'm not too worried about that one) and especially in terms of grayscale. Maybe there someone out there rich enough to buy both and willing to post his/her results.

I happen to be someone who wants both Plasma and LCD to improve and keep pushing each other. Consumers are better off when there is more competition. If creates more competitive R&D and better pricing levels.

How about a swivel mounted Hybrid, with this Samsung for daytime, and on the back a Pio Kuro that can be swiveled around for night time viewing.:D

[darkninja67]

First thoughts by any reasonable unbiased person is that this is a daytime disaster. It may turn out to be great in the dark. These pics are shocking, even in bright scenes there is glare.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/1944/lnt4681gx6.jpg

Yes, the pics are appreciated but can the political correctness already.

We all knew the 81s were going to be glossy. This is not news to anyone.
I watch my tv in a room that had blinds so this is a non issed. For those that watch in the daytime without blinds, do us all a favor and get some please.

[Zerox_no1]

greenland

Hehe, that's an awesome idea, man! :D

[gbmannc]

Political correctness run amuck ... the silence is deafening.
http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/users/pfernand/pics/inigomontoya.jpg

[mark_1080p]

We all knew the 81s were going to be glossy. This is not news to anyone.I'm just saying the first pics come in and they certainly leave a strong impression that this set is even glossier than previous. Some of us were hoping that Samsung would make progress in reducing reflections from the 65 series. Of course, we're all waiting for dark room scenes, which I realize is what this TV is all about.

[slumpey326]

mark_1080p, is that the 81 series or the 71 series. How did you get it so fast

[Zyphrax]

Thanks for the photos (farscaper) Kevin!

I'm not that troubled with the glossy look. And the image looks really good.
A few questions Kevin:

- How's the sound quality of the TV speakers?
- How's the amount of background noise by the TV itself?
- What do you think of the TV, if you would have to give it a grade?
- Personal pros/cons?

Thnx!
Can't wait for it to come to The Netherlands.

[gbmannc]

I'm just saying the first pics come in and they certainly leave a strong impression that this set is even glossier than previous. Some of us were hoping that Samsung would make progress in reducing reflections from the 65 series. Of course, we're all waiting for dark room scenes, which I realize is what this TV is all about.

Look at the pics in post 3335. It isnt a pitch dark room and there are not any reflections.

[taurus2007]

mark_1080p, is that the 81 series or the 71 series. How did you get it so fast

I think you are confusing him with somebody who actually got the 81F, farscaperkevin.

[darkninja67]

Anyone else have their fingers crossed that the only "issue" this tv will have is dealing with the reflective screen? I know I am after some of the other releases have been lukewarm at best.

[mark_1080p]

Look at the pics in post 3335. It isnt a pitch dark room and there are not any reflections.Wow, I missed that set of pics. They look great, now the room is apparently fairly dark, but nevertheless, they do look great, thanks.

So the lighting does need to be subdued, but yep, looks good.

[greenland]

First thoughts by any reasonable unbiased person is that this is a daytime disaster. It may turn out to be great in the dark. These pics are shocking, even in bright scenes there is glare.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/1944/lnt4681gx6.jpg

Yes, the pics are appreciated but can the political correctness already.

Well I consider myself fairly unbiased, and if anything, up until now, more in favor of what plasmas have offered, but I think those pictures that he took with just the drapes drawn showed that this LCD can handle normal light very well. He intentionally opened up all the window covers, and let the light stream in, for the pictures that you have seized on. No one in their right mind is going watch the set under those conditions. You sound like you are the one who is over anxious to affirm your pre-conceived bias. Let us see how it fares in the new owners hands before rushing to judgment.:)

[Salvador]

My god, mark_1080p is one annoying dude with his personal glossy vendetta. You should just stop posting man, we get the point.

Anyway i'm so excited to see pics of the 4681 in action. I am hoping to get one myself once it becomes available here in Toronto.

FYI, i've gone through 5 lcd sets:

Sharp D82 #1 = A loaner, had an *acceptable* amount of banding for me to tolerate

Sharp D82 #2 = The replacement set for the loaner, had terrible banding returning it

Sharp D82 #3 = Had terrible banding yet again. Returned it for a Sammy 4665.

Sammy 4665 #1 = Had bad clouding in the lower left corner. Some minor clouder in the upper right corner. Clouding was bad enough for me to return it.

Sammy 4665 #2 = Even worse cloding. 4 clouding blotches scattered in the middle of the screen.

I'm going to return the 4665 end of this month and will be on the hunt for a 4681. Hopefully no issue with that one. It's such a major hassle returning these sets.

Btw, going from the matte d82 screen to the glossy 4665 screen I actually prefer the glossy screen. It helps tremedously though that I have the tv setup in my basement, no windows.

[____]

the only "issue" this tv will have is dealing with the reflective screen?

That is highly likely. C'man some black pics with tweaked settings. Please :)

[darkninja67]

That is highly likely. C'man some black pics with tweaked settings. Please :)

I may need to bust open my piggy bank soon then

Good looking set so far

Anyone else getting one this week??

[vtms]

It would be very interesting to read Kevin's comments on LED SmartLighting (local dimming) and Motion Plus LED (LED quadrant scanning) demos available on this set.

[skyehill]

Sorry. I do not grasp your meaning?. What are you referring to?.

He's referring to the fact that he whines about glossy finishes all the time. Put him on ignore, then we'll have fewer and fewer people responding to his constant whinings.

[okiedigger]

In DSC_5482.jpg, the glow around the girl, is that because of the LED backlighting or because of the source material. Sorry, I haven't seen that commercial, so I don't know.

[____]

In DSC_5482.jpg, the glow around the girl, is that because of the LED backlighting or because of the source material. Sorry, I haven't seen that commercial, so I don't know.

It's the camera.

[nyvram]

It must be 81 series or else it wouldn't have the little "LED" sticker in the upper left corner. I doubt Samsung would tout "LED" on the 71 series. ;)

Besides this *is* the 81 thread.

[mark_1080p]

... I think those pictures that he took with just the drapes drawn showed that this LCD can handle normal light very well. He intentionally opened up all the window covers, and let the light stream in, for the pictures that you have seized on. No one in their right mind is going watch the set under those conditions. You sound like you are the one who is over anxious to affirm your pre-conceived bias. Let us see how it fares in the new owners hands before rushing to judgment.:)Rushing to judgement? How about an honest offering of initial impressions. People do watch in ordinary lighting during the day, in their right minds. The pics in subdued lighting are very good, I agree that under those conditions its fine. Believe me, I'm far more interested in affirming that whatever bias I have has been wrong.

[conan48]

Kevin, do you game at all? Maybe you could throw in some Gears of War or some other game and take some pics? Please. Could you also test how the LED motion plus works and if it gets rid of ghosting, and let us know if the LED motion plus has any artifacts. thanks

[farscaperkevin]

Heres some Fifth Element. Ill post more when I get back from Luby's

[DG___]

Waiting for some report on sound with the "ears" and bass speakers. Glossy finish can be a problem depending on your viewing room and angle. Some of those shots are off angle and still look pretty good! Thanks for posting the shots so far.

[____]

Heres some Fifth Element. Ill post more when I get back from Luby's

Display of the year. Instant purchase. :D

[cwave]

Farscaperkevin ,thanks for the pic of your new 81 series, they look great; did the stickers that were on the tv when you pulled it out of the box mention anything about the set having a 120 hz refresh rate; i know this issue caused some debate

[DG___]

Wow! Nice blacks....

[Chris J]

Perfect.... And it's not even a movie feed through a Blu-ray or HD DVD player...

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2323/dsc5488wi3.jpg

[conan48]

OMFG!:eek: Those Fifth element space pics are amazing.

[farscaperkevin]

The picture is great. I see no artifacts or noise because fo the tv. in cable broadcasts there is some just because of the signal. so far at first glance i give this tv an nine. If it had a matte finish id give it a ten. I'll get some gears up In a bit. and I still havent had time to tweek it. any halo effect you see in the pictures, I didnt see on the tv, it was only on the photos.

[mark_1080p]

Pretty impressive dark pics, though some earlier and 5489 appear to be crushing blacks a bit, on my 4061 computor monitor which has the crush dialed out.

[darkninja67]

Heres some Fifth Element. Ill post more when I get back from Luby's

sweet

the black of space goes right into the bezel. Impressive

[farscaperkevin]

The sound is about the best you can find integrated in the tv. doesnt stack up against a 7.1 surround of course.

[farscaperkevin]

I need to figure out how to post full res pix. Ive never posted photos before today. any Suggestions? Ill get links to some full res ones when I get back and try to remember my photo bucket password.

[nyvram]

OMG

Those pics from 5th Element...

OMG OMG

The LCD comparision threads are OVER. Abandon hope all ye who buy any other LCD.

OMG

OMG

I'm not sure you can appreciate those space pictures unless you've been obsessively following the LCD tech evolution for the last 5 years.

OMG

I wish I had $3k to blow. :(

[greenland]

So far, so good. Those last pictures were taken during the daytime, and they show no reflection problems. Everything is a trade off. LCD sets without the glass tended to look too flat. A bit of gloss or sheen tends to liven up the images, for my money. I hate dull looking videos.

..

[bgetter]

Where's Flower Mound?

Dallas/Fort Worth area

[farscaperkevin]

Even with the blinds open I can watch the tv fine. in normal light the tv looks just as good as it does in the dark. no glare is visible from my viewing position from the overhead light. a lamp could be a problem I suppose. and the normal reflections that were seen with the tv off cant be seen with them on.

[Orta]

Fantastic pics farscaper. In person, are the blacks really as deep as they look in all those space shots?

[farscaperkevin]

DEEPER

[okiedigger]

any halo effect you see in the pictures, I didnt see on the tv, it was only on the photos.

Thanks and I'm very happy for you!

[gbmannc]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87491&d=1187552614
The last 2 pics of space are unbelievable, but here you can see in the black bars the problem with too few dimming zones.

[conan48]

Kevin, how does the set handle motion? This has been a big issue for me and the reason Ive always gone with plasma. Are you sensitive to blur and if so, how does the 81 handle it.

I hope were not annoying you too much:)

[dack70]

I think I remember seeing something about not posting retail prices on this forum... is that true? If so, why? If so, how do I find out how much this awesome tv will cost me?

[nyvram]

retail is fine..it will set you back $3k for the 40"

OMG

OMG

Those space pics...OMG...I wanna take a sledgehammer to my Vizio now...

OMG

[borf]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87464&d=1187546765

I think the blur above is either ghosting or a slow camera shutter (image persistance can't be photographed)
I bet AutoMotionPlus isnt on or there would be scan lines. You should see them around 1/60th of a second.


Exciting stuff thanks farscaperkevin!

:)

[____]

DEEPER

:eek: This is the real deal. The One.

[vtms]

Necrolop, seeing any halos around stars on pics 5490 and 5491? :) I guess these two settle the "halo" debate, don't they? WOW!

BTW, I'm updating the first post with links to Kevin's posts for convenient access.

[tonydeluce]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87491&d=1187552614
The last 2 pics of space are unbelievable, but here you can see in the black bars the problem with too few dimming zones.

That is the problem I was hoping Sammy figured out how to mitigate...

They should at least shut the dimming zones down in the black bar areas.

[master_2000]

@farscaperkevin

how about clouding and other problems ?

greetz

[darkninja67]

Fantastic pics farscaper. In person, are the blacks really as deep as they look in all those space shots?

They have to be deeper since we are using computer monitors and I have never seen a monitor show blacks as dark as the bezels.

[dack70]

retail is fine..it will set you back $3k for the 40"

OMG

OMG

Those space pics...OMG...I wanna take a sledgehammer to my Vizio now...

OMG
Good... How bout the 46" shown in these pictures?

[nyvram]

Good... How bout the 46" shown in these pictures?

Sorry, I thought this was the 40". I think it goes like this:

3k = 40"
4k = 46"
5k = 52"
6k = 57"

Someone can slap me down if I'm off one the prices.

[vtms]

Those space pics...OMG...I wanna take a sledgehammer to my Vizio now...
OMGLOL!

[alangmc]

Necrolop, seeing any halos on pics 5490 and 5491? :) I guess these two settle the "halo" debate, don't they? WOW!

BTW, I'm updating the first post with links to Kevin's posts for convenient access.

In 5491, I can see blotches of grey-black in the space adjacent to the planet, particularly in the center of the screen, and extending into the black bars in the top right.

It's impossible for me to tell if that's part of the film material, a camera artifact, my monitor, or the panel.

Also, as pointed out, in 5489 you can see the black bars becoming grey-black because of the adjacency to a light area.

It's next to impossible to really judge when viewing a picture of a compressed image shot with a camera then viewed back through a monitor. Black levels look very, very promising though.

[dack70]

I was mostly looking forward to the 81 series release, so the price of the 65 series would drop a bit and I could go ahead and order it. Now, I'm getting so excited about this 81 series tv, that I might have to dig a little deeper into my pockets.

Thanks a lot farscaperkevin, you just cost me an extra 2 grand!! :)

[glow11]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87464&d=1187546765

I think the blur above is either ghosting or a slow camera shutter (image persistance can't be photographed)
I bet AutoMotionPlus isnt on or there would be scan lines. To see scan lines, decrease camera shutter time


Exciting stuff thanks farscaperkevin!

:)

Well the glow does end at the bezel, so it may be a LD issue, however, I'd rather see a bit of bleed than the whole black area lit up like a standard LCD. Given that the bright spot going offscreen is very bright, it would probably be tough to distinguish that bloom from regular glare.

[drewde]

Hope is hight that this is the LCD set to finally get! So far the images look fantastic! It is really hard to tell from pictures... the camera adds it's artifacts, the jpg compression adds some artifacts, and then my own computer monitor adds it's own.

Some said something about seeing other FIFTH ELEMENT shots... how do they compare? (once again, hard to tell with all the variables as described above, but it's the best we can do for right now.)

I really like look of the new pioneer plasma sets, but I don't want to live my life always being concerned about what I am viewing on the tv... games, a paused video, etc... If this set even gets close to that level of image quality I am sold! I really hope this 81 series is the one!!!

[taurus2007]

I was mostly looking forward to the 81 series release, so the price of the 65 series would drop a bit and I could go ahead and order it. Now, I'm getting so excited about this 81 series tv, that I might have to dig a little deeper into my pockets.

Thanks a lot farscaperkevin, you just cost me an extra 2 grand!! :)

No more coffee in the morning for a while, eh!

[mark_1080p]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87491&d=1187552614
The last 2 pics of space are unbelievable, but here you can see in the black bars the problem with too few dimming zones.Arer you referring to the blue fringing in the top black bar from the bright white spot just to the right of his head? That is what I see on my 4061 monitor.

[darkninja67]

No more coffee in the morning for a while, eh!

none for you either I guess nor me. This set looks good. I just have to see it in person.

[gbmannc]

Arer you referring to the blue fringing in the top black bar from the bright white spot just to the right of his head? That is what I see on my 4061 monitor.

yep

[vtms]

Perfect.... And it's not even in Blu-ray... You mean the pictures weren't being fed by BD player?

[borf]

Well the glow does end at the bezel, so it may be a LD issue, however, I'd rather see a bit of bleed than the whole black area lit up like a standard LCD. Given that the bright spot going offscreen is very bright, it would probably be tough to distinguish that bloom from regular glare.

I was referring to motion blur not glow (look at the spectators in the background).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87464&d=1187546765

[taurus2007]

none for you either I guess nor me. This set looks good. I just have to see it in person.

And no going out after work on Friday for a while too.

[glow11]

You mean the pictures weren't being fed by BD player?

Thats old DVD, like the pony express used to deliver before the autogyro was invented.

[glow11]

I was referring to motion blur not glow (look at the spectators in the background).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87464&d=1187546765

Ah, sorry I thought you were responding to the post that made note of the bloom in the black bars.

You're correct about not being able to photograph image persistance, that blur came from the camera on the golf course :)

[dack70]

Is it too early to speculate on when the price will drop on this bad boy? :D

[SGMD1]

Dang those pics look unreal...but how do people already have this TV? Is it already available for purchase?

[gbmannc]

Is it too early to speculate on when the price will drop on this bad boy? :D

Because its distribution is being limited I would say longer than usual.

[glow11]

Is it too early to speculate on when the price will drop on this bad boy? :D

Nope, I know when!


In the future!

[mark_1080p]

yepMy take then would be this TV has some fringing and is pushing blue at low IRE (assuming its not the camera), not that the space pics don't look great, they still do.

[Chris J]

You mean the pictures weren't being fed by BD player?


That's what I meant.

[SGMD1]

Is it too early to speculate on when the price will drop on this bad boy? :D

I'd say six months at the lastest before a price drop...maybe some deals during the holiday season. But you won't have to wait too long.

I feel like it was just yesterday that I saw 40" plasmas selling for $30,000

[____]

My take then would be this TV has some fringing and is pushing blue at low IRE, not that the space pics don't look great.

Again. It's the camera. Go see it live.

[glow11]

Dang those pics look unreal...but how do people already have this TV? Is it already available for purchase?

Dealers are taking pre-orders, and they've been slated to arrive sometime around the end of August. Since Samsung has kept completely silent to the public about the TV, nobody knew the exact shipping date, but I'd say from the photographic evidence that they're arriving now.

I preordered one in Portland, I'll post as soon as I get mine...hope it's soon.

[dack70]

I could go back to eating peanut butter sandwiches everyday like I did when I was in college. Of course, back then it was to save money for beer.

[SabinVI]

Thats old DVD, like the pony express used to deliver before the autogyro was invented.

How do you know that these shots aren't taken from Blu-Ray? Did I miss a post saying they were from a DVD source?

[glow11]

Again. It's the camera. Go see it live.

What about the bloom into the bars at top & bottom...I would say that could be glare in the camera, but the bloom ends at the bezel.

Again, I doubt it would be very noticeable in person, but it is there.

[glow11]

How do you know that these shots aren't taken from Blu-Ray? Did I miss a post saying they were from a DVD source?

He said he didnt have an HD player since he was replacing an old creaky set.

[007craft]

great job. Do you own a gaming console you could test some 60fps games with out on? Gamecube ps2 and xbox or higher has these. Try with and then without motionplus enabled and see if theres a big differenece.

[mark_1080p]

Again. It's the camera. Go see it live.Yea, I just edited my post (for the fringing) before seeing your response, agreed best to see live. This monitor cannot do it justice.

[SabinVI]

He said he didnt have an HD player since he was replacing an old creaky set.

Okay I did miss that. Thanks for the clarification. Now I'm freaking out even more knowing these are from a DVD source! This set looks amazing.

[____]

What about the bloom into the bars at top & bottom...I would say that could be glare in the camera, but the bloom ends at the bezel.

Again, I doubt it would be very noticeable in person, but it is there.

There should be some hint of bloom in high contrast top&bottom bars. I'm not sure that how visible that is in person. You would see bloom anyway. It's how human eye works.

[gbmannc]

Has there been any mention what video processor these things have?

[glow11]

There should be some hint of bloom in high contrast top&bottom bars. I'm not sure that how visible that is in person. You would see bloom anyway. It's how human eye works.

I've been doing a ton of curve & selection tests to try to find artifacts within the picture, and man do they hold up well. There were early speculation images showing what people thought would occur with high contrast stars or planet edges running diagonally across the screen (speculating that you would see slight stairstepping and blocky glares, but I sure the hell cant bring it out, and I can bring out anything that exists well below the range of human perception with Photoshop.

[armubaba]

Hey guys, I've been lurking for a while now, but I decided to bite the bullet and sign up after seeing that those pictures were forbidden to non-members. :P

So- to those who were lucky enough to pick up this TV, is the glare a real issue? The room I plan on putting this TV in does get a decent amount of light....will it detract from the experience?

[____]

I've been doing a ton of curve & selection tests to try to find artifacts within the picture, and man do they hold up well. There were early speculation images showing what people thought would occur with high contrast stars or planet edges running diagonally across the screen (speculating that you would see slight stairstepping and blocky glares, but I sure the hell cant bring it out, and I can bring out anything that exists well below the range of human perception with Photoshop.

I have said this from the day 0. ;)

[mark_1080p]

... you would see slight stairstepping and blocky glares, but I sure the hell cant bring it out ...
Could be the diffuser is doing its job.

[glow11]

Could be the diffuser is doing its job.

Of course a diffuser is a double edged sword, it would degrade the LD effect that happened to lie in pristine areas (where the contrast line happened to follow an LED zone line) and it aint happening here so far as I can tell...I think there are more zones than previously thought.

[greenland]

I have said this from the day 0. ;)

August 9th. 2007 when you first joined!.:)

[SabinVI]

A lot of people in the XBR4 thread said that the Sony's image really pops out and has a nice 3D look to it. Comments on this set?

[DG___]

Hey guys, I've been lurking for a while now, but I decided to bite the bullet and sign up after seeing that those pictures were forbidden to non-members. :P

So- to those who were lucky enough to pick up this TV, is the glare a real issue? The room I plan on putting this TV in does get a decent amount of light....will it detract from the experience?

Same here...long time lurker. Joined today to see pics. Heading out this week to find one...!!!

[glow11]

August 9th. 2007 when you first joined!.:)

lol

[taurus2007]

August 9th. 2007 when you first joined!.:)

Actually, long before August 9th, 2007.

[greenland]

Here is one review on the Sony 46XBR. Perhaps it will provide some insights and questions that can be brought to bear on the Samsung 81 display.

http://hdguru.com/?p=131

[vtms]

I've been doing a ton of curve & selection tests to try to find artifacts within the picture, and man do they hold up well. There were early speculation images showing what people thought would occur with high contrast stars or planet edges running diagonally across the screen (speculating that you would see slight stairstepping and blocky glares, but I sure the hell cant bring it out, and I can bring out anything that exists well below the range of human perception with Photoshop.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9532316&postcount=32

[Majstang]

I have said this from the day 0. ;)

Yeah Go81, it must feel good to be totally redressed. People were doubting you there for a while. What everybody surley wanna know is where did u get all your inside information?

[borf]

that blur came from the camera on the golf course :)

Yes could be. The only way to find out is to pop in a game :)

[conan48]

His boyfriend works for Samsung. I thought everyone knew that.

[drewde]

Any chance of getting larger jpg images to better evaluate the quality of this TV?

[HTPC4ME]

There should be some hint of bloom in high contrast top&bottom bars. I'm not sure that how visible that is in person. You would see bloom anyway. It's how human eye works.

QFT. The bloom that you see in the black bars is there, but remember that our computer monitors cannot show the whites of this set as bright as they really are. I bet when you see them in person, the bloom generated by your eye will overpower the bloom generated by the TV.

Now, some requests for the guy who has this TV (can't remember his username):

Can you turn LED Motion Plus on and off to see if it makes any difference?

Can you calibrate it so we can see how well it tracks a good greyscale and how close the primaries are to their proper positions?

Can you do something to find out how many LED zones there are? Maybe the LED BL demo will shed some light (no pun intended) on this. Or, maybe you could take the back off to count the zones. Don't worry, we'll get everyone in this topic to donate $10 if you break it. ;)

[HTPC4ME]

Any chance of getting larger jpg images to better evaluate the quality of this TV?

Or better yet, post a link to an externally-hosted lossless, full-resolution version of one of the space pictures.

[drewde]

What would be the best way for farscaperkevin to check for clouding issues with this set?

[wiese]

He posted all the same doctored stuff ...

Hey greenland, the picture he linked is hosted on engadget.com. In the future I hope you are more concerned with your own credibility.

You owe him an apology.

[Destructo-Bot]

Checking out the image in photoshop... his camera didn't crush the blacks on the bezel (there is detail on the bezel) so we can compare the blacks on the screen. I'm glad to say that black is truly black, no glowing. Now whether or not the TV is uncalibrated and crushing blacks I can't say without being there in person, but that can be fixed easily enough regardless. The important part is that the black luminance is zero!

We have a winner!

[HTPC4ME]

What would be the best way for farscaperkevin to check for clouding issues with this set?

He would have to display a black screen with local dimming turned off. If local dimming is on, all of the LED zones would be completely off (and there better not be any clouding in that case).

[armubaba]

So when will these babies hit retail? Like, when do you guys think I'd be able to walk into a Circuit City and pick one up?

I'm hoping to get this before September 25th. Is that gonna be possible?

[gbmannc]

So when will these babies hit retail? Like, when do you guys think I'd be able to walk into a Circuit City and pick one up?

I'm hoping to get this before September 25th. Is that gonna be possible?

These are only going to high end specialty stores for now like best buys with magnolias in them. You wont be able to get one in your circuit city for a couple months most likely.

[HTPC4ME]

These are only going to high end specialty stores for now like best buys with magnolias in them. You wont be able to get one in your circuit city for a couple months most likely.

Actually, I'm interested in seeing if Best Buy will have them in their Magnolia Home Theater sections. A while ago, some posters said they would be there, but some said they would only be available in standalone Magnolia AV stores.

[drewde]

So how do these images from the 5th element compare to the new 81 series?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11220259&highlight=fifth+element+jpg#post11220259


I don't really know how to submit a link... hope this works.

[greenland]

He posted all the same doctored stuff ...

Hey greenland, the picture he linked is hosted on engadget.com. In the future I hope you are more concerned with your own credibility.

You owe him an apology.

And you know this how. Are you his Samsung boyfriend, or his ventriloquist dummy. In the future, let Sampo provide his own answers.

[davidjschenk]

He's referring to the fact that he whines about glossy finishes all the time. Put him on ignore, then we'll have fewer and fewer people responding to his constant whinings.

Hey, thanks for that information! I didn't know we could do that.

I actually don't mind Mark's comments, really, but there is one other party for whose comments I have no foreseeable use. Per your instructions, I just took care of it.

Thanks, man,

David

[Rob L.]

farscaperkevin, congratulations on the purchase of your television.:D
I look forward to reading your observations regarding how it performs.

[jzoomer]

LED intensity can't possibly change after two hours, can it? I can see how this would happen long-term and if you watch a lot of 4:3 or true widescreen movies (2.33:1?) then over time the LEDs in the border areas would stay brighter. Big-time turn-off if so. But this does not explain why a static image would be a problem, unless we're talking about the same image on the screen all of the time...


If they change drastically at 2 hours, it is usually a life ending event. :)

So you are right that this effect isn't the 2 hour event.

[sharpjunkie]

I was about to drive over to CC and pick up a 46 xbr4 for the new price of 28xx with tax with coupon AAA until I just saw the pics of the 81. Holy Shiza.

LNT4681f = 3999$
4 year service plan = 250$
3 idiots bashing the new 81 set that they have not seen in person and arguing about gloss =priceless

You know who the 3 idiots are, not hard to guess...

[taurus2007]

I was about to drive over to CC and pick up a 46 xbr4 for the new price of 28xx with tax with coupon AAA until I just saw the pics of the 81. Holy Shiza.

LNT4681f = 3999$
4 year service plan = 250$
3 idiots bashing the new 81 set that they have not seen in person and arguing about gloss =priceless

You know who the 3 idiots are, not hard to guess...

:D

[drew138]

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.

ps. if any of you live near flower mound, the flower mound warehouse has the 46s and the 52s, but not the 40s. Im not sure about the 57s. some stores even have them in stock. Im sure that other stores have them too.


Awesome! Thanks for all the photos and initial feedback. Did you pay MSRP for the 4681? Also, the blue light that is on the bottom of the samsung, could please explain where it is exactly. I can't tell if its embedded in the frame, just under the frame or on the swivel base?

Thanks and best of luck with the new set. Congrat's on receiving AVSFORUM Fame.

Drew

PS: It only took 111 pages on this thread since Jan 15, 2007 to get an actual owner pic/review up.

[Flash01]

I was about to drive over to CC and pick up a 46 xbr4 for the new price of 28xx with tax with coupon AAA until I just saw the pics of the 81. Holy Shiza.

LNT4681f = 3999$
4 year service plan = 250$
3 idiots bashing the new 81 set that they have not seen in person and arguing about gloss =priceless

You know who the 3 idiots are, not hard to guess...

Well idiots is rather harsh. I think there is no need to add more fire to a thread that has seen a lot of bickering in the last few days. Lets avoid getting this thread locked. We're all pretty stoked that Kevin got his TV so everyone wants to comment, for good or bad.

I'm just so happy to see pictures of the darned thing!

[PaulLemonhead]

Actually, I'm interested in seeing if Best Buy will have them in their Magnolia Home Theater sections. A while ago, some posters said they would be there, but some said they would only be available in standalone Magnolia AV stores.

Looked at BB w/Magnolia today in Newington, NH. They can order the 71 for you but said the 81 wasn't in their "system".

[niksem]

hey, guys. i bought 46XBR4 3 days ago for a descent price. The pictures posted for XBR4 were incredible. so are the 81 pictures. I know that 81 has a newer technology, but it would be interesting to see how new XBRs compare to 81 sets. It looks like people who got either of these two sets will be happy. Can someone tell how XBR4 and 81 compare?

[glow11]

Actually, I'm interested in seeing if Best Buy will have them in their Magnolia Home Theater sections. A while ago, some posters said they would be there, but some said they would only be available in standalone Magnolia AV stores.

I think in the few remaining cities in the country that have a standalone Magnolia, they are giving preference to them over the Best Buy based Magnolias.
In cities without a standalone Magnolia Hi Fi, I believe they are being shipped to the Magnolia Home Theaters in Best Buys.

[mark_1080p]

... bashing the new 81 set that they have not seen in person and ... So it is only idiotic to bash without seeing, but not idiotic to praise without seeing. Now I understand your point of view ... it is akin to political correctness :D.

Anyway, some scenes look great on this TV under appropriate lighting conditions.

[DSET]

hey, guys. i bought 46XBR4 3 days ago for a descent price. The pictures posted for XBR4 were incredible. so are the 81 pictures. I know that 81 has a newer technology, but it would be interesting to see how new XBRs compare to 81 sets. It looks like people who got either of these two sets will be happy. Can someone tell how XBR4 and 81 compare?

If the 81s technology is what it’s promised to be
(And by looking at the space pictures it somewhat does).
Then the 81 will blow the xbr4s out of the water, especially considering they have similar prices.
However
81s are glossy and if u can’t handle the reflection stay away from Samsungs higher end models.

The real competition I think is between the xbr4 and the 71series which are the budget buyers TVs, the 81s and the pioneer plasma's are what I am curious to see.

But only time will tell between the 71 and the xbr4 in which case I think the XBR4s have an advantage with features and a matte finish.
The 81series unless there’s some flaws with the set (considering its new technology there may be) I don’t see there being much competition between XBR4s

[greenland]

A modest proposal:

The set is now on the market, and the first owner reports that he does not have a problem with reflections on his set. Other owners will soon be adding more perspectives, and people can also soon check them out in the stores. What ever problems that reflections may cause, or not cause, is up to individual tastes and judgments.

Why not call a truce, and drop that subject.

Isn't it time to wind down The Glare Bitch Project!.;)

[davidjschenk]

Can you calibrate it so we can see how well it tracks a good greyscale and how close the primaries are to their proper positions?

Can you do something to find out how many LED zones there are? Maybe the LED BL demo will shed some light (no pun intended) on this. Or, maybe you could take the back off to count the zones. Don't worry, we'll get everyone in this topic to donate $10 if you break it. ;)

Yeah, I'd like to second that request. Those images, especially those from 5th Element and from the water, have me *enthralled*. Seriously. The thing is, though, I'm hoping to get the 4081F, which is the smallest of the bunch. At $3000, there is no way on planet Earth that I will settle for an 8X8 backlight array (one person speculated that it would be 8X8 for the 40" display). That just would not be anywhere close to acceptable, especially at such a high premium.

Seriously, though, Kevin, those pictures you posted are stunning. I am very, very glad that I waited until now to replace an old, failing Westinghouse that is under a BB extended warranty. The 4081 will cost me an extra $1000 plus a little road trip to a Magnolia store, but I so don't care--from what you've shown us, it truly is worth it. Thank you so much for posting all those images. If there is any way to find out, I'm dying to learn:

(1) what the backlight array is like on your tv;
(2) what the real world *static* contrast ratio is, both with and without the local dimming trick;
(3) whether or not the color fidelity on this thing lives up to its hype.

*ANY* information you can give on any of these three subjects will be a huge help to me.

[Now quoting Flash01]
I think there is no need to add more fire to a thread that has seen a lot of bickering in the last few days.
[End quote]

I enthusiastically second this request. In my experience AVS Forum has been a place of mutual respect, civility and decorum, even when members strongly disagree about something. On rare occasions it slips and some puerile behavior bubbles out (like, oh... when some ultra-mega-amazing new display hits the market). I mean, it's understandable and everything, but we are better people than this, aren't we?

Yours,

David

[niksem]

If the 81s technology is what it’s promised to be
(And by looking at the space pictures it somewhat does).
Then the 81 will blow the xbr4s out of the water, especially considering they have similar prices.
However
81s are glossy and if u can’t handle the reflection stay away from Samsungs higher end models.

The real competition I think is between the xbr4 and the 71series which are the budget buyers TVs, the 81s and the pioneer plasma's are what I am curious to see.

But only time will tell between the 71 and the xbr4 in which case I think the XBR4s have an advantage with features and a matte finish.
The 81series unless there’s some flaws with the set (considering its new technology there may be) I don’t see there being much competition between XBR4s


I know all that. I just want a comparison. Superior technology does not mean that the set will actually look that much superior. I can still return my sony, so that is not a problem for me. Just need to hear from someone who actually seen both sets.


I liked what I saw in 65 series that is why I am following through this thread.

BTW, that space foto can be a little bit misleading. The camera adjust the amperature based on the the brightest object which is quite bright thus the dark background will seem darker. Also, I think gloss is actually good for me since I prefer darker rooms anyways... and it make picture look better. So I am still waiting for someone to post XBR4 vs. 81 comparison. Sony glagship vs Samsung flagship.

[xb1032]

farscaperkevin,

Just in case you notice this post in the midst of the 100's of others today. Most of us know that pics can either bring out imperfections that aren't there or else hide issues that really are there. Pics only says so much.

1. Is there a glow on the black bars as is shown on your pics? In other words do the black levels float/change when bright content is on the screen?

2. In scenes like the pics in outerspace how dark are the blacks? Do they actually disappear into the dark or do they have a slight glow?

3. You said you purchased the set a Best Buy. Was it actually Best Buy or Magnolia?

[Chris J]

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.

:D

For the record. What make and model is your DVD player...

[oldcband]

farscaperkevin,

Just in case you notice this post in the midst of the 100's of others today. Most of us know that pics can either bring out imperfections that aren't there or else hide issues that really are there. Pics only says so much.

1. Is there a glow on the black bars as is shown on your pics? In other words do the black levels float/change when bright content is on the screen?

2. In scenes like the pics in outerspace how dark are the blacks? Do they actually disappear into the dark or do they have a slight glow?

3. You said you purchased the set a Best Buy. Was it actually Best Buy or Magnolia?
Floating blacks is a plasma issue. Correct term is "poor black level retention" I've never seen a LCD float blacks only plasma. Yes this would be a major concern but I've never heard of it with LCD.