Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread

[smaybee]

May have been asked and I missed the answer, but for another year or more my area of the country has little OTA HD. So I am stuck with lots of SD content. How does SD look on your 81? Can you post a pic or two of some SD content?

[LaserEdge]

A little more info on distribution for Magnolia AV.

Magnolia AV stores have a distribution system of thier own. Magnolia Home Theater stores (the ones inside best buy) use the same distribution system that best buy uses. The SF bay area DC has 0 40" 81s in stock and have an expected in store date of September 15. There was no info on the DDC for the area. Didn't think to ask about the other 81 models.

The Magnolia AV expected date of the August 31 is sooner than the BB date of Sept 15. This is for the LNT4081F. Not sure about the other models. It doesn't really add up for the other models since Kevin already got the LNT4681F from BB.

[mark_1080p]

I was worried that the 100,000:1 contrast from the 57 would burn my eyes out :rolleyes:Just a simple question: If you have seen the Sharp d92 in controlled lighting, its at the top for black levels and punch is good. Does this thing beat the d92?

[nismor2]

I am in no way doubting what this tv can do. Pictures can be deceiving as far as contras ratios go because the camera can use their own settings. I took these picture for comparison sake and nothing more. My LCD is a Panasonic 32LX700 with a claimed dinamic ratio of 8500:1 and some test indicate a static of almost 1000:1.

This shot i used the tv's Zoom to fill the screen because the film i have the format shows letterbox.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u77/nismor2/IMG_2492.jpg

This is an original Letterbox shot, no zoom. You can see where the letterbox are because the tv's contras rears its head and then you see the bezel borders. Its easier to see if you look at the bottom part.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u77/nismor2/IMG_2487.jpg

I hope this tv gets rid of all motion blur which is my biggest priority. I can live with a decent contras ratio.

[davidjschenk]

The Sharp LC-45GX6U ran 1080P DVI from a computer. You just had to switch the DVI connection from the panel to the AVC box to the computer instead after the panel is already powered on. That is what I mean by not officially supported. Several AVS forums members did just this including me. It made it easier if you had a gefen switcher. It doesn't really matter now anyways as even the xx61/xx65 makes both panels look horrible in comparison.

Wow. No, I totally didn't realize that back when I was shopping around for a monitor. Now, I doubt it would have changed my decision simply because the Sharps were quite expensive indeed back then, but I had believed that the Sharps flat out couldn't do it. The whole thing is moot and academic, sure, but then, I *AM* an academic, so I like to learn these things (even late).

-David

[drewde]

Kevin,
Can't wait to hear more feedback regarding this amazing new set!

[valoidr]

Yes, it was just a joke, because of a comment right before that saying we need to get the EPA involved because an idiot wants government regulation to protect him from Contrast Ratio fraud or something like that. Guess he's not smart enough to make decisions on his own, so wants government to do it for him.

Kevin, are there any DC's in the Houston area ?

CadJoeThat idiot was also making a joke does this:D not mean anything anymore or perhaps i should of used:rolleyes:

Give me a break!

[valoidr]

Well, we all know what the top end of the range would be: brightness of LED at full power over brightness of LED at minimum power. Since minimum power is off, the top end of the range would be theoretically infinite in a pitch black room.

The other end of the scale, however, would be the hightest white with LED at full power over the lowest black with LED at full power (i.e. no local dimming at all). This would give a measurement closer to the static CR of other LCDs on the market, like the XBR 4, since it would completely eliminate the contrast advantage this TV enjoys over other and would simply be like a normal LCD with an LED instead of a CCFL backlight
So, the range of possible contrast ratios would be around 2000:1 - Infinity:1.

Unforutnately, you cannot get any useful values out of a range that extends to infinity. The average of infinity and 2000 is still infinity. The median of infinity and 2000 is still infinity. The only useable value from that range is the finite lower value, which is 2000:1. Using that as the display's contrast ratio, however, would be unfair, as it would make the display look no better than any other LCD by disabling its best feature.

I hope this clears up why you cannot really get a static contrast ratio from this display.."From infinity and beyond" heard that somewhere......the point is a stinking standard - true static cannot be pinpointed unless, just suppose there is a standard and actually there is - its just not flattering to some.

"From infinity and beyond":D:eek::confused: not sure which one to use.....lighten up folks!

[sharpjunkie]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=893827

lnt71f owners thread

[blu3flam3]

damn , in pics 71F and 81F looks the same PQ
i still dont understand the diference :O

[LaserEdge]

Wow. No, I totally didn't realize that back when I was shopping around for a monitor. Now, I doubt it would have changed my decision simply because the Sharps were quite expensive indeed back then, but I had believed that the Sharps flat out couldn't do it. The whole thing is moot and academic, sure, but then, I *AM* an academic, so I like to learn these things (even late).

-David

Yea. It was mighty expensive. Almost returned the panel back then as despite doing 1080P the motion blur was almost unbarable given the cost. In 2 1/2 years panels way better at 1/5 of the cost have hit the market. It is incredible how fast display technology is progressing. Even now I feel like the 81 is stopping point on the way to the mega contrast HDR displays only year or two away.

[davidjschenk]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=893827

lnt71f owners thread

Heyyy...nice find, there. The pictures do look very good, but tentatively I'm still gunning for the 81.

Yea. It was mighty expensive. Almost returned the panel back then as despite doing 1080P the motion blur was almost unbarable given the cost. In 2 1/2 years panels way better at 1/5 of the cost have hit the market. It is incredible how fast display technology is progressing. Even now I feel like the 81 is stopping point on the way to the mega contrast HDR displays only year or two away.

Absolutely. The price drops and technological advances that we saw back in 2003-2005 were wild. The progress we've seen since then is just freakish, and the one thing that gives me pause about jumping in now is that I am almost certain you're right that the 81s are mere stepping stones on the way to something truly dazzling in '08 or '09. Oh, well--ye gotta jump in sometime or the whole thing will pass you by, right?

-David

[farscaperkevin]

Hi farscaperkevin,

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. I mean, if there's a good chance of making a sale on something that runs anywhere from $3k right up through $5k, what with the commissions involved and all, certainly I would do anything I could to make the sale. So my guess is, he could go there, wave his credit card around a bunch, point out that it's an awfully big investment, and get the rep to open a box and let him see it in action.

Okay, I'm dying to know, man--how many clusters are there in your 46" backlight array?

Yours,

David

I'll post more pics tomorrow since I'm off. Before I go though I just wanted you to know that there is no commission whatsoever at best buy. Nobody makes money based on what they sell, and there is no credit given for sales. We are strictly hourly employees. I'll find out about the clusters tomorrow. Talk to you guys later.

[drewde]

Kevin,

Since you work at a BB you must be used to seeing what the 65 series can do as well as the new pioneers (at least something like the 5080)... how do they stack up? My hopes are high that this set can really deliver the goods and I can finally get my first HD set!!!!

[jzoomer]

I guess LCD TV technology is at a point where pictures displayed on my 800:1 contrast LCD computer monitor won't do any good!

[davidjschenk]

Before I go though I just wanted you to know that there is no commission whatsoever at best buy. Nobody makes money based on what they sell, and there is no credit given for sales. We are strictly hourly employees.

Oh. My mistake--I thought there were commissions, but upon reflection, I realize the only reason I thought that was because BB had commissions way back in the early and mid-nineties (a buddy of mine worked there while I was in grad school).

Well, I'm looking forward to more pictures.

Yours,

David

[LaserEdge]

Heyyy...nice find, there. The pictures do look very good, but tentatively I'm still gunning for the 81.



Absolutely. The price drops and technological advances that we saw back in 2003-2005 were wild. The progress we've seen since then is just freakish, and the one thing that gives me pause about jumping in now is that I am almost certain you're right that the 81s are mere stepping stones on the way to something truly dazzling in '08 or '09. Oh, well--ye gotta jump in sometime or the whole thing will pass you by, right?

-David

Yea. The kicker that got me looking into buying a new panel is all the totally sweet games coming really soon. Bioshock, Crysis, Hellgate: London, Mass Effect, HL2: Orange Box... That is just to name a few.

[niksem]

damn , in pics 71F and 81F looks the same PQ
i still dont understand the diference :O

so is xbr4

[davidjschenk]

Yea. The kicker that got me looking into buying a new panel is all the totally sweet games coming really soon. Bioshock, Crysis, Hellgate: London, Mass Effect, HL2: Orange Box... That is just to name a few.

You know it. And don't forget UT2007. Have you seen the full definition trailer for that little monster? Boy-o-boyoboy...

-David

[Isochroma]

Can't beat OLED unfortunately...

Image gamma adjusted to 3.0 in Irfanview. The 'black' is still emitting light, while the bezel is significantly darker.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3531/dsc5490oj1.png

Now I will admit its black level is really impressive, probably sufficient for the non dark-adapted human eye. Even dim content will be enough to hide it. And of course an end for plasma, even Kuro. But still far from what either the SED device or OLEDs can achieve.

What I don't understand is why the starless horizontal strips at the top and bottom are no darker than the field between the stars, as they should be mostly in a different backlight zone.

[bearfun]

hey guys sorry but someone is deleting my pointers to avoid paying full price for this and any other tvs.I guess some retailers ,or others got there pantys in a knot because they thought i was giving to much info. i will still try to help guys out when i can. But i live in vancouver BC and can only help guys in the lowermainland.

[Isochroma]

More pics from a previous post in this thread, also gamma'd to 3.0. Note the gray bars in the second image, compared to the blackness of the bezel (visible on the top and right sides of second image).

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7237/4z8r50i2xk3.png

[acetheog]

What I don't understand is why the starless horizontal strips at the top and bottom are no darker than the field between the stars, as they should be mostly in a different backlight zone.

they are darker... but it appears the pixels are not "off." could this be a source (simulated black bars) problem?

[Isochroma]

More gamma 3.0, this time on the letterbox version. Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'? The top strip gets darker toward the left, but even at its best it barely manages to under-emit the starfield (and remember the brightness difference between them has been greatly amplified from the gamma adjustment):

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2687/img24872br5.png

I expected the device to perform better than this, and am in particular disappointed in the obviously poor zone isolation shown by the imperceptibly small difference in luminous intensity between the letterbox bars and starfield, and those in turn compared to the bezel's luminosity. Considering that those bars should have no signal whatsoever, and should also occupy most of an independent zone, I expected much lower intensity.

Apart from the display of a completely black signal (which allows this panel to turn all its LEDs off), only OLED and SED can deliver true black, which is the complete absence of light. Despite its performance, I am sure the quality will still satisfy even picky viewers, who will be easily impressed after years of viewing far worse LCD and plasma displays.

[007craft]

im confused about this gamma 3.0 thing. Our human eyes dont see in gamma 3.0, so who cares if the bezel is eaily visable. When we are watching a movie in the dark, if we cant see the bezel, thats black enough. Even if you took a picture of the tv OFF with a tiny led light from like a clock as your only light source, im sure you could easily distinguish the bezel once you raise the gamma. The screen and bezel are different material, its impossible to get them 100% identical in blackness.

[____]

More gamma 3.0, this time on the letterbox version. Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'? The top strip gets darker toward the left, but even at its best it barely manages to under-emit the starfield (and remember the brightness difference between them has been greatly amplified from the gamma adjustment):

That's a pic of Panasonic 32" showing a pic of Samsung 81. With 3.0 gamma, the top left of the image is as black as the bezel(original 81 photo). There's no point in this kind of comparisons because 81 isn't calibrated. It's using out of the box settings.

[____]

Ah, my mistake. How about a photo of the 81 showing that image or any equivalent, with letterbox bars?

I think that we should wait for at least AVIA "calibrated" 81 photos taken with a good camera. With high contrast letterbox bars there should be some light leakege because of light diffuser. If 81 is calibrated for night time viewing(limiting the white level so it won't burn your eyes out), this thing will beat a good CRT.

[Isochroma]

Not my mistake. The picture above is a shot of the actual 81 screen:

posted by nismor2:

"This is an original Letterbox shot, no zoom. You can see where the letterbox are because the tv's contras rears its head and then you see the bezel borders. Its easier to see if you look at the bottom part."

[____]

Not my mistake. The picture above is a shot of the actual 81 screen:

posted by nismor2:

"This is an original Letterbox shot, no zoom. You can see where the letterbox are because the tv's contras rears its head and then you see the bezel borders. Its easier to see if you look at the bottom part."

Look at the red power led. :p

[dafran]

it was indeed an original Letterbox shot of his Panasonic 32LX700. You can find the Samsung picture here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87493&d=1187552627

see post 3399

[dafran]

It was indeed a picture of his Panasonic LCD. Here you can find the same picture on the Samsung LCD : -> Post 3399

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87493&d=1187552627

[glow11]

I expected the device to perform better than this, and am in particular disappointed in the obviously poor zone isolation shown by the imperceptibly small difference in luminous intensity between the letterbox bars and starfield, and those in turn compared to the bezel's luminosity. Considering that those bars should have no signal whatsoever, and should also occupy most of an independent zone, I expected much lower intensity.

You're expecting quite a bit from that Panasonic

Quote from post you found that picture on:
My LCD is a Panasonic 32LX700 with a claimed dinamic ratio of 8500:1 and some test indicate a static of almost 1000:1.

[Tomas L]

More gamma 3.0, this time on the letterbox version. Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'? The top strip gets darker toward the left, but even at its best it barely manages to under-emit the starfield (and remember the brightness difference between them has been greatly amplified from the gamma adjustment):

[pic]

I expected the device to perform better than this, and am in particular disappointed in the obviously poor zone isolation shown by the imperceptibly small difference in luminous intensity between the letterbox bars and starfield, and those in turn compared to the bezel's luminosity. Considering that those bars should have no signal whatsoever, and should also occupy most of an independent zone, I expected much lower intensity.

Apart from the display of a completely black signal (which allows this panel to turn all its LEDs off), only OLED and SED can deliver true black, which is the complete absence of light. Despite its performance, I am sure the quality will still satisfy even picky viewers, who will be easily impressed after years of viewing far worse LCD and plasma displays.

Sorry, but you ARE using the wrong picture! :) The right picture was posted by Kevin a few pages back (DSC_5491) and I changed gamma to 3,0, even all the way up to 10(!) and I can't see the top left corner! I can see barely see the bottom right corner. This is terrible unscientific, but Kevin also claims that black is truly black. I believe him!

[borf]

Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'?

Could this be black crush from limited internet colorspace, viewing display, camera settings ect?
Is judging C/R from internet pics an exercise in futility?
(check Nismor2's pic on the previous page).

[johnnybrulez]

So in other words. Is there still glow at 0ire on these Samsungs?

[____]

So in other words. Is there still glow at 0ire on these Samsungs?

No. In some scenes you can bring out impure blacks using super pumped gamma on photoshop etc, but it will look black to your eyes. High contrast black bars will still glow a bit.

[johnnybrulez]

No.

All blank screens are black, but a star field such as the one above will not be totally blend into the bezel as if it was a no signal. I guess I can live with that compromise. I'm digging the 'blu' glow. Very Terminator in design. So far I am mega intrigued Sampo. :) GET ME A SAMPLE!!

[____]

Better check 81 live before bashing it, johnnyb. According to the first owner, 81 looks completely black out-of-the-box and there's no glow. Get a remote and tweak it to perfection.

[vtms]

More gamma 3.0, this time on the letterbox version. Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'? The top strip gets darker toward the left, but even at its best it barely manages to under-emit the starfield (and remember the brightness difference between them has been greatly amplified from the gamma adjustment): First of all, Isochroma, Kevin posted only one picture showing the planet and stars, yet, as ThomasL and _____ correctly point out, yours differs from Kevin's. Your picture lacks the blue LED power indicator that 81s have. Instead, there's only red dot on the bottom left part of the bezel. Frankly, it's pretty obvious the picture is not of the Samsung 81 Series set. Would you like to explain?

[tombaker]

More gamma 3.0, this time on the letterbox version. Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'? The top strip gets darker toward the left, but even at its best it barely manages to under-emit the starfield (and remember the brightness difference between them has been greatly amplified from the gamma adjustment):

I expected the device to perform better than this, and am in particular disappointed in the obviously poor zone isolation shown by the imperceptibly small difference in luminous intensity between the letterbox bars and starfield, and those in turn compared to the bezel's luminosity. Considering that those bars should have no signal whatsoever, and should also occupy most of an independent zone, I expected much lower intensity.

Apart from the display of a completely black signal (which allows this panel to turn all its LEDs off), only OLED and SED can deliver true black, which is the complete absence of light. Despite its performance, I am sure the quality will still satisfy even picky viewers, who will be easily impressed after years of viewing far worse LCD and plasma displays.

I too am disappointed because apparently from this picture you can clearly see the LCD is projecting a diffuse and partially illuminated plasma cloud. When comparing the black bars as you suggest I look a little bit above and clearly see the plasma cloud....Its not totally black as we would expect.

Yes clearly a disappointing plasma aura is being shot out of this sub par Samsung....or it is digital exposure noise due to a high ISO compensator from the processing chip of digital camera effecting the image to which point you can not make your conclusions with a straight face.

I am with you...its not a digital camera processor trying to properly expose a picture and adding in lots and lots of noise, due to the high ISO compensation needed......I am with you....it a disappointing TV emitting a nasty plasma cloud.

If you compare the left side to the right....you can see they added in more plasma cloud shielding which reduced the optical effects on the left side....you see that right?

[vtms]

Kevin, I'd love to see more pics and read more of your impressions but, most of all, I would really like you to take 2 pictures in pitch black environment, first showing black frame, and then the second with the power off. These two images would settle many past and potential future debates and would clearly indicate the source of what might be causing impure blacks (if we find any). I hope others will support me in this request.

[vtms]

Can't beat OLED unfortunately...
Image gamma adjusted to 3.0 in Irfanview. The 'black' is still emitting light, while the bezel is significantly darker.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3531/dsc5490oj1.png

Now I will admit its black level is really impressive, probably sufficient for the non dark-adapted human eye. Even dim content will be enough to hide it. And of course an end for plasma, even Kuro. But still far from what either the SED device or OLEDs can achieve.

What I don't understand is why the starless horizontal strips at the top and bottom are no darker than the field between the stars, as they should be mostly in a different backlight zone.
Now, that's better. Yes, it seems like black regions don't blend into the black bezel. It's important to realize, though, that a star-filled space is the most demanding scene for locally-dimmed displays. It's understandable why the black space between stars wouldn't be totally black but it's less obvious why the black bars do not blend into the bezel. It almost seems like local-dimming isn't turned on or adjusted properly. I'm going to worry about any of these imperfections once we get the same results even after calibration.

[____]

All blank screens are black, but a star field such as the one above will not be totally blend into the bezel as if it was a no signal. I guess I can live with that compromise. I'm digging the 'blu' glow. Very Terminator in design. So far I am mega intrigued Sampo. :) GET ME A SAMPLE!!

We haven't seen a pic of star field yet. Some people are complaining about that planet, diffuse glow and star field pic. Well Samsung 81 is just faithfull to the source, it isn't crushing blacks!

Check out these actual images of star field and diffuse glow:

http://www.astrosurf.com/jwisn/m33bw-mosaic.jpg

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0611/andromeda_gendler_big.jpg

http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/heic0309.jpg

[vtms]

Could someone apply the same gamma 3.0 treatment to this picture and post the result? Thanks.
http://i12.tinypic.com/68mph89.jpg

[____]

http://i10.tinypic.com/6f9bqxk.png

3.0 Gamma. Hmmm looks like a Pioneer 8G plasma. :rolleyes:

[____]

3.0 gamma pic from uncalibrated 81.

http://i13.tinypic.com/5xsiz2w.png

0cd/m2 black at the top left corner for sure!

[bgates22]

Could someone apply the same gamma 3.0 treatment to this picture and post the result? Thanks.
http://i12.tinypic.com/68mph89.jpg

It would be great to get the same screen shot on the 81S in order to compare.

[vtms]

3.0 Gamma. Hmmm looks like a Pioneer 8G plasma. :rolleyes:Correct. I feel so much better right now.:) Thanks.

3.0 gamma pic from uncalibrated 81.
0cd/m2 black at the top left corner for sure!Or at least way too close to 0cd/m2 to detect the difference. Let's hope Kevin posts 2 pictures I asked about earlier so that we can apply the same gamma 3.0 test to them. Now, that should be fun.

I love these gamma 3.0 tests.

[SoftMachine]

What is the likelihood that a panel like the 81 would NOT oulast the CCFL panels? Is the technology mature enough (outside the use as a flat panel backlighting source) to safely assume a 60-100k hours lifetime presuming normal use by an average American television-watching household? Or is it a crap-shoot at this point...

Thanks

[____]

Correct. I feel so much better right now.:) Thanks.
I love these gamma 3.0 tests.


I changed gamma to 3,0, even all the way up to 10(!) and I can't see the top left corner! I can see barely see the bottom right corner. This is terrible unscientific, but Kevin also claims that black is truly black. I believe him!

Why not use 10.0 gamma to really show of 81 series vs 8G blacks. I won't post a 10.0 gamma pic of 8G. It would be a total slaughter. :p

[fafarafa]

Looks like my LN-T5281F will arrive on friday instead of saturday,carrier just called,that's quick ,5 days from MT to PA?;) will post some pics early saturday

[vtms]

Why not use 10.0 gamma to really show of 81 series vs 8G blacks. Yeah, definitely.

[taurus2007]

Looks like my LN-T5281F will arrive on friday instead of saturday,carrier just called,that's quick ,5 days from MT to PA?;) will post some pics early saturday

Congrats. More pictures are better. :D

[glow11]

Not even the mighty Brightside stands up to gamma tweaking.
I think adjusting the gamma on images of displays is more likely to pick up inadaquecies in the camera taking the picture, rather than in the displays themselves.

http://i13.tinypic.com/52miblz.jpg

[vtms]

Not even the mighty Brightside stands up to gamma tweaking. Since these pictures were taken in a bright environment, they are unusable. Just look at the bezel. It's ligher than the screen. :) These tests are great as long as they are performed in a completely dark environment. How about these pictures?
http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2005/10/brightside_hdr_edr/01.jpg
http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2005/10/brightside_hdr_edr/02b.jpg
http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2005/10/brightside_hdr_edr/03a.jpg
http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2005/10/brightside_hdr_edr/03.jpg
And this one:
http://forum.hometheatermag.com/photopost/data/504/Planar_LED_LCD_Prototype_LEFT_3.jpg

[____]

3.0 gamma.

http://i12.tinypic.com/6bnhb0g.png

http://i10.tinypic.com/66obcp1.png

http://i15.tinypic.com/6fttnjr.png

http://i12.tinypic.com/67hnn6t.png

http://i18.tinypic.com/5x3pk4w.png

[glow11]

Since these pictures were taken in a bright environment, they are unusable. Just look at the bezel. It's ligher than the screen. :)

My point, poorly made as it was, is that gamma adjustments will pick up as much from the camera's abilities and the compression format the image is stored in than they will from the actual display. There are small parts of the picture I posted that had 0 lighting, but they look like they are generated from compression artifacts. Gamma will bring out brightness in a screens blacks, but they will also amplify any camera artifacts as well.

[vtms]

3.0 gamma.
http://i12.tinypic.com/6bnhb0g.png
http://i15.tinypic.com/6fttnjr.png
Thanks. These pretty much speak for themselves. I expect 81s to match this performance, especially the one in the first image.

And the close-up of that logo looked more like this:
http://i12.tinypic.com/6gbop79.jpg

[jterp7]

My point, poorly made as it was, is that gamma adjustments will pick up as much from the camera's abilities and the compression format the image is stored in than they will from the actual display. There are small parts of the picture I posted that had 0 lighting, but they look like they are generated from compression artifacts. Gamma will bring out brightness in a screens blacks, but they will also amplify any camera artifacts as well.

not only does it amplify artifacts but upping the brightness or gamma through software introduces new noise isnt visible in the original. This is a major no no in digital photography (trying to fix exposure/metering mistakes through software) and thus shouldn't really be used as a basis for comparison

[bplewis24]

You know it. And don't forget UT2007. Have you seen the full definition trailer for that little monster? Boy-o-boyoboy...

-David

That trailer made my jaw drop.

Brandon

[Shinraven]

Last pic for the night, then I have to go to sleep so I can get to work bright and early.

Good night.

i luv you !!! :p please tell me this was plugged via hdmi / dvi from PC / MAC.

cuz of this.. i see Negative $5000 in bank account this winter. 52" here I come.

Please confirm it does 1920x1080 on HDMI hehehe.

Btw, congrats on your purchase and for posting pix. I will see these very soon in NYC and you guys can rest assured I will take tons of pix and lay down the gauntlet and take this set apart.

From what I saw, This has great potential. I am hoping they can come down in price by winter.

[Auditor55]

Yeah, definitely.

How could the 81 series beat the holy grail (8g), come on guys:rolleyes::D

[HTPC4ME]

More gamma 3.0, this time on the letterbox version. Again note that the letterbox bars are only slightly (on average) darker than the starfield. What is with those 'zones'? The top strip gets darker toward the left, but even at its best it barely manages to under-emit the starfield (and remember the brightness difference between them has been greatly amplified from the gamma adjustment):

I expected the device to perform better than this, and am in particular disappointed in the obviously poor zone isolation shown by the imperceptibly small difference in luminous intensity between the letterbox bars and starfield, and those in turn compared to the bezel's luminosity. Considering that those bars should have no signal whatsoever, and should also occupy most of an independent zone, I expected much lower intensity.

Apart from the display of a completely black signal (which allows this panel to turn all its LEDs off), only OLED and SED can deliver true black, which is the complete absence of light. Despite its performance, I am sure the quality will still satisfy even picky viewers, who will be easily impressed after years of viewing far worse LCD and plasma displays.

That's a pic of Panasonic 32" showing a pic of Samsung 81. With 3.0 gamma, the top left of the image is as black as the bezel(original 81 photo). There's no point in this kind of comparisons because 81 isn't calibrated. It's using out of the box settings.

Not my mistake. The picture above is a shot of the actual 81 screen:

posted by nismor2:

"This is an original Letterbox shot, no zoom. You can see where the letterbox are because the tv's contras rears its head and then you see the bezel borders. Its easier to see if you look at the bottom part."

Look at the red power led. :p

You're expecting quite a bit from that Panasonic

Quote from post you found that picture on:
My LCD is a Panasonic 32LX700 with a claimed dinamic ratio of 8500:1 and some test indicate a static of almost 1000:1.

Sorry, but you ARE using the wrong picture! :) The right picture was posted by Kevin a few pages back (DSC_5491) and I changed gamma to 3,0, even all the way up to 10(!) and I can't see the top left corner! I can see barely see the bottom right corner. This is terrible unscientific, but Kevin also claims that black is truly black. I believe him!

First of all, Isochroma, Kevin posted only one picture showing the planet and stars, yet, as ThomasL and _____ correctly point out, yours differs from Kevin's. Your picture lacks the blue LED power indicator that 81s have. Instead, there's only red dot on the bottom left part of the bezel. Frankly, it's pretty obvious the picture is not of the Samsung 81 Series set. Would you like to explain?

Man, this is a classic. It turns out the guy was complaining about the wrong TV and supporting the 81 series by showing how bad other displays look in comparision to it. :D

http://i10.tinypic.com/6f9bqxk.png

3.0 Gamma. Hmmm looks like a Pioneer 8G plasma. :rolleyes:

LOL! That made my day. :)

BTW, here's a list of picture we all want Kevin to post, in order of importance:

1. TV off

2. TV on showing black screen - for comparison to TV off, Brightside, and Kuro

3. 100% White Window - for comparison to brightside

4. Something from a game

5. Something 4:3 at night - to see how black the bars are

6. Anything after it is calibrated!!!

[Auditor55]

The worst part about the 81s are the limited availability. I'm probably going to get the Pioneer 6010 because of pricing. I love the brightness of an LCD and at least in the store lighting the 71 series looks very nice! I just can't justify spending $7k on the 57"er when I know I'll want a 70"er in a year of two if they ever become somewhat affordable. The Pioneer's cost significantly less and I know if the Sammy's weren't in limited retailers I could get it down in my price range. :(


What's the rush or hurry. You already have a SXRD and a Panny. Why don't you wait it out for a while.

[Scot Kight]

6. Anything after it is calibrated!!!

Actually I think that should be

6. Retake every picture over again, because before it is calibrated the picures were useless.

7. It doesn't matter, 8g, sed, lasers, CRT, toothpaste and bread actually produce black. I can see grey when I screw with the image so that it has no basis in reality!#%

:)

[Auditor55]

http://i12.tinypic.com/4z8r50i.png

Blackhole blacks. Check.
Pure whites. Check.
Accurate colors. Check.
Great grayscales. Check.
No washout. Check.
Superb motion detail. Check.
No burn. Check
1080P. Check.
Super Clear. Check.
Good viewing angles. Check.

What else could you realistically want from a 2007 display?

The Kuro Killer:D:D

[IlikeMovies]

I Like.

[Andytrackk]

stop talking about this TV and give me one.

Thanks =)

[nismor2]

Both my pictures are from a Panasonic 32 lcd. Your can tell by seeing the led light on the left of the screen. I paused my dvd of the 5th element at the same spot. I posted the pictures just to show that the camera can be fooled into blending an all dark picture. I think the only tried and true test that can be concluded with a camera is the hot spot or un-even light test in the dark. At the end of the day we need to go see them in person. I am more interested in how and if LED can get rid of motion blur. Still it looks amazing.

[davidjschenk]

The star is obviously much smaller than an individual LED so it would seem impossible to turn on that LED and still end up with a small point of light surrounded by black area. In this case the algorithm turns that LED behind the star on anyway but the trick is that, simultaneously, it commands liquid crystals corresponding to pixels around the star to block the light so that only few pixels allow light to pass through at the screen location where the star appears while all pixels around the star block the light. The result is you see a bright star surrounded by black space. Obviously, the crystals around the star won't block the light completely so there will always be a hint of "halo" around the star, but, in reality, that halo would be there anyway even if the pixels perfectly blocked the light around the star (that is if resolution of backlight was equal to pixel resolution) because our eyes perceive a halo around a bright spot surrounded by black area anyway. The result is that the picture appears completely natural. It's actually quite brilliant algorithm.

This should explain why resolution of backlight doesn't have to go up to pixel resolution to achieve the same realistic PQ. In OLEDs each pixel illuminates itself, but in locally dimmed sets the same effect could be achieved with the kind of algorithm described above.

Humph!

See? SEE??? I should have read every page of this thread right from the beginning instead of jumping into it only after it reached close to 100 pages.

Vtms, that explanation and the follow-up just subsequent to it were very helpful indeed. Had I done what I knew I should have and read the entire thread from page 1, I never would have become so confused and started freaking out about the 40" model having a seemingly low number of backlight clusters.

I still intend to use a very critical eye when examining one this Sunday, but at this point I am less anxious even about an 8X8 array. I mean, I'm still anxious about it, but nowhere near as anxious as before.

BTW, if others of you haven't seen it yet on the new owners' thread, Sharpjunkie's brand new 71 seems to be quite lovely indeed. Everything is tentative since our data pool is so small, but at the moment I think there's basis to the speculation that the 71s might be the real price-to-performance sleepers, here. I don't know how Samsung got that contrast level up so high without the local dimming, but the pictures and reports are hard to dispute. Also, I don't know what its static ratio is. (As before, fidelity is much more important to me than artificially induced "pop"; if I want pop, I'll go to the fridge.) Conceivably it might not yield a great image quality improvement over the 65s, but my strong hunch is that it will.

These are turning into exciting times (if you're geeky enough).

Cheers,

David

[bgates22]

I will see these very soon in NYC .

What do you mean by this? Where will you see them in NYC.

[LaserEdge]

Using software to post process the gamma of screen shoots already taken by Kevin is plain and simple bad science. To even begin such a study you need photography equipment that is known to perform well in low light conditions. I am pretty sure Kevin was not using such equipment. Once the proper equipment is available then you need to set up a well defined experiment with many of the variables constrained. You need computer generated images to draw any accurate conclusions with a study. First you need to perform experiments to understand exactly the shape and size of the BLU LED clusters and how they perform. You need to understand how the diffuser performs. Then once you have that understanding you can construct images to show exactly where the issues are with the design of the panel.

Above all else one should never lose the fundamental understanding of how the panel is to be used. The panel was never designed so a camera could photograph its images. It is designed for the human eye. Any sound conclusion should ultimately be drawn from observations by the human eye. Any study from a camera and processing of its images should be considered a tool to help direct ones own eyes in looking for actual issues with the panel. One should never draw conclusions directly from the pictures of the camera itself.

In short go see the 81 series in person and try your own experiments before you even attempt to draw any conclusions.

[alangmc]

I'm confused...how many people have actually seen this panel? I thought it was just one person, the guy that bought it. However the thread is filling up with people saying that the black level beat the Kuros and such. Have any of you seen the panel?

[D-Nice]

Instead of comparing this 81 series to the 768p Kuro, why not wait for the 1080p pictures (5010FD/110FD) and then do your gamma tests ;)

[davidjschenk]

Actually I think that should be

6. Retake every picture over again, because before it is calibrated the picures were useless.


*cough* "Useless"?? I think that goes a bit far, don't you? Even apart from being our first-ever images of an 81 in action in the real world, farscaperkevin's photos turned out to be very useful indeed for glow11's Photoshop tests (I am not referring to this business with jacking the gamma all to blazes; I am referring to glow11's quite clever tests back on page 120, performed to try to reveal artifacts). Certainly you are correct that the photos, because they are of an uncalibrated set, do not yield all the information in which we are interested, but personally I still got a lot from them.

Keep 'em comin', farscaperkevin!

Yours,

David

[niksem]

so guys.... in conclusion. Is 81 is a good TV or what? Someone make a conclusion for me.

[____]

Instead of comparing this 81 series to the 768p Kuro, why not wait for the 1080p pictures (5010FD/110FD) and then do your gamma tests ;)

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070802/pio1_03.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/63j1shw.png

Eh..;)

[____]

so guys.... in conclusion. Is 81 is a good TV or what? Someone make a conclusion for me.

It's not a good TV. It's the best tv on the market.

[tombaker]

Using an electronic light sensor of a digital camera to attempt to measure the difference between the black of the screen and the black of the frame is just foolish.

Its a bloody magnifing device for the screen.....for any tiny tiny amount of light.

If you want to use a digital camera.....let it work with the Flash....then you will have something.

It really get funny when engineers working on this stuff respond to developments by the other engineers. Good thing we don't have a wikipeda like device that tell use which corporate IDs are doing the posting.

But come on these are engineers they will understand how to use a annoymous proxy....hint hint

Anyone remember the Sony camcorder that could sense infrared and normal light at the same time....and effectively saw through many types of clothes? Lets use one of them on these them there LCD to see if they can sense more energy coming off the panel vs the plastic case....I bet they will

lol....rolf.....dweebing out

[pakotlar]

. I expect 81s to match this performance, especially the one in the first image.



Maybe next year or the year after that. The 81 series is far from IMLED, which is why the brightside displays have 0l/cd^2 in black areas. Imagine that the 46" samsung deals not with 1000's of led zones but with only with 117! That's why this performance is still very impressive.

Could the owner of the display please clear something up for me? Is the glow that goes into the black bars during high contrast scenes, is that a local dimming artifact or just glow from the high intensity of the LED BLU + glass screen internal reflection?

[Broc27]

It's not a good TV. It's the best tv on the market.

Just for future reference: ____ wrote that since before the TV was out. At the time of this writing he didn't have one yet. Of course when he'll get one he'll still be saying it's the best TV ever, no matter what it looks like in reality.

[tombaker]

It's not a good TV. It's the best tv on the market.
agree with one BIG caveat.....its the Best TV if you have a viewing room that allows for a high Gloss screen....and you are the type of person that does not care, if there is a lamp like reflection in your movie.

If you can deal with gloss screens...its the best.

For me, the high gloss makes it a deal breaker, I am seriously hoping for the Matte version to be a quick follow on. If not now....by Gen2

______ is associated with Samsung fwiw

[Flash01]

so guys.... in conclusion. Is 81 is a good TV or what? Someone make a conclusion for me.

The consensus seems to be that the TV performs very well. Without getting too technical, this is step forward in LCD, and flat-panel, technology. I would recommend it to my friends, in a few weeks :)

That being said, we have very little information at this moment so if you're still on the fence, it could be wise to wait a few days and see if any problems creep up. There is also the glossy screen which may or may not suit your needs. I won't judge if the price premium is worth it, you can get a good LCD or plasma for substantially less.

So is it good? Yes, although I will wait 3-4 weeks and see if anything comes out of extensive reviews. It is a good buy? Depends...

[D-Nice]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070802/pio1_03.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/63j1shw.png

Eh..;)Uh, how about pictures from a trustworthy source....you surely aren't one.

[____]

Uh, how about pictures from a trustworthy source....you surely aren't one.

That first pic is from http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/. Look at the URL. It's one of the most respected tech sites in the world.

[enator]

Hey it seems that the real war between Kuro and Sammy LED has begin just here in this forum but out here people buying Kuro :D :D

[____]

Hey it seems that the real war between Kuro and Sammy LED has begin just here in this forum but out here people buying Kuro :D :D

Europe will get F96 soon. Then you can buy 50" 8G for 1 euro. Or is it SEK there. :)

[enator]

Europe will get F96 soon. Then you can buy 50" 8G for 1 euro. Or is it SEK there. :)

I buy 1000000 of them from you for 2 euro each so you get rich too :D

[____]

I buy 1000000 of them from you for 2 euro each so you get rich too :D

It's a deal. 8G 50" for sale, price 2 Euros. No one buys. :D

[enator]

Europe will get F96 soon. Then you can buy 50" 8G for 1 euro. Or is it SEK there. :)

Anway thanks for your pictures S....

[vtms]

Humph!

See? SEE??? I should have read every page of this thread right from the beginning instead of jumping into it only after it reached close to 100 pages. Vtms, that explanation and the follow-up just subsequent to it were very helpful indeed. Had I done what I knew I should have and read the entire thread from page 1, I never would have become so confused and started freaking out about the 40" model having a seemingly low number of backlight clusters.
Don't beat yourself up too much. Reading all this stuff now would be too overwhelming for anyone. At this point it is more efficient for a newcomer to this thread to just ask questions of others who have read every post since January (like I have) so they could easily point him/her in the right direction. I'm glad I could help.:)

BTW, if others of you haven't seen it yet on the new owners' thread, Sharpjunkie's brand new 71 seems to be quite lovely indeed. Everything is tentative since our data pool is so small, but at the moment I think there's basis to the speculation that the 71s might be the real price-to-performance sleepers, here.71S looks like a decent performer but does it survive the gamma tests?:p

[vtms]

Using software to post process the gamma of screen shoots already taken by Kevin is plain and simple bad science.
While I agree this increased gamma business has been messy, it is only meant to accomplish a single and very simple objective, namely, to serve as a visual aid in evaluations of whether the shade inside the screen matches the shade of bezel in a dark environment. I mean, if the screen in these various pictures had been as black as the rest of the room, this would have shown up consistently at all gamma levels, would it not? And if the answer to this is yes, then these gamma tests are "reliable enough" to accomplish our simple objective.

[vtms]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070802/pio1_03.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/63j1shw.png

Eh..;)
Now, let's be fair to Kuro as well. It seems like the picture wasn't taken in the perfectly dark environment either so this result should be discarded.

[anon123]

While I agree this increased gamma business has been messy, it is only meant to accomplish a single and very simple objective, namely, to serve as a visual aid in evaluations of whether the shade inside the screen matches the shade of bezel in a dark environment. I mean, if the screen in these various pictures had been as black as the rest of the room, this would have shown up consistently at all gamma levels, would it not? And if the answer to this is yes, then these gamma tests are "reliable enough" to accomplish our simple objective.
These gamma adjusted pictures are not reliable. Do not make any conclusions based on the photos shown. Read the explanation here starting from post #26:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602087&page=2

[Isochroma]

Well, after a good night's sleep, it seems I was mistaken after all. Apologies to all. Gamma 3.0 is really good at bringing out the residual glow, though.

[____]

This gamma business is stupid. :) We can't compare pictures that have been taken with different settings.

81 owners, take pictures in a completely dark room using these settings. End result should be close to what human eye sees. And use a tripod.

ISO200, aperture 4.0, shutter speed 2sec.

Someone could do the same for 8G.

[tombaker]

This gamma business is stupid. :) We can't compare pictures that have been taken with different settings.

81 owners, take pictures in a completely dark room using these settings. End result should be close to what human eye sees. And use a tripod.

ISO200, aperture 4.0, shutter speed 2sec.

Someone could do the same for 8G.

the errors that digital camera sensor will enter in make it useless to compare. The camera will magnify light...you might as well be using night vision goggles....its the same meaningless measure.

Take a picture with the stinking flash....take it slightly to an angle so as you don't get the direct reflection back....heck go straight on...and accept a white center of the picture.

You need the flash to get any measure of what you will see in real life. The digital camera sensor will not correctly reflect what they eye sees in a dark room.

By using the flash you get a correct exposure and is standardized

[tombaker]

Well, after a good night's sleep, it seems I was mistaken after all. Apologies to all. Gamma 3.0 is really good at bringing out the residual glow, though.
no apologies needed....its was great entertainment/diversion.....thanks

[Zankou]

Well, after a good night's sleep, it seems I was mistaken after all. Apologies to all. Gamma 3.0 is really good at bringing out the residual glow, though.

Well you tried, so thanks for putting forth the effort to be helpful to all of us scrabbling for info!

[LaserEdge]

While I agree this increased gamma business has been messy, it is only meant to accomplish a single and very simple objective, namely, to serve as a visual aid in evaluations of whether the shade inside the screen matches the shade of bezel in a dark environment. I mean, if the screen in these various pictures had been as black as the rest of the room, this would have shown up consistently at all gamma levels, would it not? And if the answer to this is yes, then these gamma tests are "reliable enough" to accomplish our simple objective.

You are letting a camera draw conclusions instead of the human eye for a device that is designed for the human eye and not a camera. At most you can say I need to direct my eyes to look closer at these areas of the screen. So my answer is no. I agree that it is a tool, but nothing more.

The really question is the black levels of the display appealing to the eye? To beg the question, "Is the processed picture taken by camera of the display pleasing?" certainly leads to some kind of false assumption/false conditioning.

[LaserEdge]

Well, after a good night's sleep, it seems I was mistaken after all. Apologies to all. Gamma 3.0 is really good at bringing out the residual glow, though.

No offense taken here. I just want everyone to really enjoy what they buy on true merits of what it does. I do speak up when I see the potential for false conditioning to enter one's viewing experience. I would like to see everyone form their own impression without feeling they will be judged for doing so.

[slumpey326]

I say we get back on topic to the 81 series itself

[blu3flam3]

I say we get back on topic to the 81 series itself

Agreed ,
can someone post more pics of this beauty please :D

[tombaker]

I say we get back on topic to the 81 series itself
I think I fully understand what the 81 looks like static...as much as can be done over the net.

would like more info on how it handles motion...what movies look like from Blue Ray....and what sports look like.....how well does the LED motion thingie work.

tia

PS....Please nobody take a video of the 81 with their cell phone video recorder....and say the 81s artifacts in motion look just like this....... LOL

[xrox]

Now, let's be fair to Kuro as well. It seems like the picture wasn't taken in the perfectly dark environment either so this result should be discarded.Exactly what model Kuro is that? I don't recall the 7G or 8G "Pioneer" models having side speakers? Only the "Elite" 50" and 60" do?

[____]

Exactly what model Kuro is that? I don't recall the 7G or 8G "Pioneer" models having side speakers? Only the "Elite" 50" and 60" do?

1080p elite. I'm not sure if non elite 1080p models have side speakers also.

[Scot Kight]

David: sorry, that "useless" comment was tounge in cheek. Thought number 7 would give that away...

I think the pictures look absolutely amazing, though the price is not in the right arena for me at the moment. Maybe in a couple months if it comes down a bit (30+%).

Hopefully we can get a few game screen shots though, as I think thats something where contrast ratio really makes a difference (not screwing around here). Games keep looking better and better, but the more detail you add on the screen, the harder it can be to tell one thing from another. My westy 42" is nice, but I have to crank the brightness to be really be able to see what is going on in some HD games.

[xrox]

1080p elite. I'm not sure if non elite 1080p models have side speakers also.Weird how the "Elite" logo is missing and it says "Pioneer"? Just someting that I noticed....

[____]

Weird how the "Elite" logo is missing and it says "Pioneer"? Just someting that I noticed....

It's the japanese equivalent. Elite is only a marketing term.

[vtms]

You are letting a camera draw conclusions instead of the human eye for a device that is designed for the human eye and not a camera. My point is this. The only purpose these tests serve here is to help us falsify the statement: "Black regions of the screen are indistinguishable from the black bezel in a completely dark room." Only one piece of evidence that contradicts this statement is necessary to falsify the statement and these gamma tests seem to provide it. Now, it is really beside the point what method we use to derive this evidence with as long as the result is not being altered after the fact. Of course these gamma pictures don't correspond to what our eyes would see but that isn't relevant here. What's important is that these cameras are still able to somehow capture the relative difference in shades between the screen and the bezel which becomes visible at higher gamma levels. Any evidence for the existence of that relative difference is sufficient to falsify the hypothesis.

[niksem]

The consensus seems to be that the TV performs very well. Without getting too technical, this is step forward in LCD, and flat-panel, technology. I would recommend it to my friends, in a few weeks :)

That being said, we have very little information at this moment so if you're still on the fence, it could be wise to wait a few days and see if any problems creep up. There is also the glossy screen which may or may not suit your needs. I won't judge if the price premium is worth it, you can get a good LCD or plasma for substantially less.

So is it good? Yes, although I will wait 3-4 weeks and see if anything comes out of extensive reviews. It is a good buy? Depends...

I was expecting a XBR4 to ocme today but it arrive in a damaged box. So i refused the package. Now, I am in the market for the new TV again.

[Warder45]

It's not a good TV. It's the best tv on the market.

Unless you have an uncontrolled room light situation.

[davidjschenk]

David: sorry, that "useless" comment was tounge in cheek. Thought number 7 would give that away...

I think the pictures look absolutely amazing, though the price is not in the right arena for me at the moment. Maybe in a couple months if it comes down a bit (30+%).

Hopefully we can get a few game screen shots though, as I think thats something where contrast ratio really makes a difference (not screwing around here). Games keep looking better and better, but the more detail you add on the screen, the harder it can be to tell one thing from another. My westy 42" is nice, but I have to crank the brightness to be really be able to see what is going on in some HD games.

Oops! Heheheh...I totally missed that. My bad.

I don't think anyone can dispute your claim that the 81s are too expensive for anyone who is genuinely price-conscious. I mean, $4k (for the 46')? That is a very tidy chunk of change right there. I don't think my *car* is worth that much right now (I drive an old subcompact). If one is only somewhat price-conscious but still quite performance-conscious, I am liking the looks of the 71 more and more. Those things ain't cheap either, mind you, but at least they aren't a full $1000 over the price of the 65s.

Game screen shots and, if possible, short little bits of carefully taken video both would indeed be welcome additions to the data pool. Because I personally am not super-fussy about it, I'm pretty sure the motion smoothing tech will be adequate for me, but it's important to make sure.

For my purposes, the principal remaining concern is the risk of perceptible artifacts from having a very small number of clusters in the 40" model's BL array. I mean, 64 clusters ain't a whole big bunch, and by golly $3000 is. I'm just going to have to wait until Sunday and go find out for myself.

Yours,

David

[vtms]

http://hdtvorg.co.uk/news/articles/2007082001.htm

[reio-ta]

What I want to know is if the 52" will be $5,000 and the 57" $7,000. I mean, wtf. $2,000 for 5 inches? That's not a good value at all! :eek:

[LaserEdge]

The big question I have right now is does enabling the LED motion plus feature introduce artifacts? Sharpjunkie is indicating that the 71 series motion plus feature introduces artifacts on the high setting and the medium setting in some cases. Looks like LED motion plus is indeed done completely differently as compared to the 71 series since it only has an On/Off setting.

[tombaker]

Unless you have an uncontrolled room light situation.

yup and then...the glossy screen is deal breaker :(

why not the matte screen 81 at launch? :confused:

[bpmurr]

I was expecting a XBR4 to ocme today but it arrive in a damaged box. So i refused the package. Now, I am in the market for the new TV again.

I would have checked the TV out first with the driver there and then made the call. Just because the box is damaged doesn't mean the TV is.

[mark_1080p]

My point is this. The only thing these tests are for is to help us falsify the statement: "Black regions of the screen are indistinguishable from the black bezel in a completely dark room." Only one piece of evidence that contradicts this statement is necessary to falsify the statement and these gamma tests seem to provide it. Now, it is really beside the point what method we use to derive this evidence as long as the result is not being altered after the fact. Of course these gamma pictures don't correspond to what our eyes would see but that isn't relevant here. What's important is that these cameras are still able to somehow capture the relative difference in shades between the screen and the bezel which becomes visible at higher gamma levels. Any evidence for the existence of that relative difference is sufficient to falsify the hypothesis.Exactly right, the relative differences tell the story, and the pic posted by underscore post #3801 does confirm that the upper left corner black bar is at the bezel level (i.e. I am drawing the opposite conclusion as you are, but only for that corner in the black bar). Perhaps for the rest of the black bar area, the diffuser is doing its job. So I think this exercise is certainly useful, in conjunction with owner's statements, thinking in relative terms.

Fully black screen and half black or other screen test patterns would be of use, to be found at ftp://ftp.fpdl.nist.gov/pub/patterns/ that the owner may download, put onto a USB memory drive, and display and photograph. Yikes, forgot they have to be converted from png to jpg, or hook up your display to your computer.

[davidjschenk]

http://hdtvorg.co.uk/news/articles/2007082001.htm

Wowp!!

45000 pounds for the Panasonic??? Never mind the price of a solid used car--that beast is the price of a small HOUSE!!

Sheesh...

David

[niksem]

I would have checked the TV out first with the driver there and then made the call. Just because the box is damaged doesn't mean the TV is.

From exprience, I know that it is always tougher to prove anything once you got the item in your posession. Also, when you see the corners of the TV sticking out of box is never a good sign. I did not want to take chances on a $3k TV. Even FedEx drive told "Uhm, you probably want to reject this"

[taurus2007]

I was expecting a XBR4 to ocme today but it arrive in a damaged box. So i refused the package. Now, I am in the market for the new TV again.

But doesn't reseller will ship another one out to you if the first one is damaged during shipping?

[davidjschenk]

What I want to know is if the 52" will be $5,000 and the 57" $7,000. I mean, wtf. $2,000 for 5 inches? That's not a good value at all! :eek:

Hi reio-ta,

The manufacturing costs increase dramatically as you increase display size. That's just a curse of our current circumstances, I'm afraid. Go from 57" to 62", and I bet you'd pay a fair bit more than $9k.

-David

[glow11]

Blacks/Gloss/Gamma...dead horse issues....MOTION MOTION MOTION!!!
My Kingdom for a motion evaluation!

[davidjschenk]

Blacks/Gloss/Gamma...dead horse issues....MOTION MOTION MOTION!!!
My Kingdom for a motion evaluation!

Seconded, except as I have no kingdom to give, you'll have to settle only for my thanks.

-David

[____]

Blacks/Gloss/Gamma...dead horse issues....MOTION MOTION MOTION!!!
My Kingdom for a motion evaluation!

Motion is like this:

Normal LCD<<<Plasma<<<<<<<<81<<CRT. I once saw MPRT(motion picture responce time) ratings for different displays. LCD was like 15, LED LCD was 5 and CRT was 4.

[vtms]

Exactly right, the relative differences tell the story, and the pic posted by underscore post #3801 does confirm that the upper left corner black bar is at the bezel level (i.e. I am drawing the opposite conclusion as you are, but only for that corner in the black bar). No, I agree with you that the top-left corner was as black as the bezel. That alone is very encouraging. I was again looking at the pictures Kevin posted and this one could be another good candidate for the test (bottom-left section is almost star-free).
http://i18.tinypic.com/6glsleh.jpg

[____]

3.0 gamma again. Bottom left 0cd/m2.

http://i13.tinypic.com/6b3w95f.png

[LaserEdge]

Motion is like this:

Normal LCD<<<Plasma<<<<<<<<81<<CRT. I once saw MPRT(motion picture responce time) ratings for different displays. LCD was like 15, LED LCD was 5 and CRT was 4.

But, does LED LCD introduce artifacts in getting to those levels?

[____]

But, does LED LCD introduce artifacts in getting to those levels?

Maybe a hint of flicker? You should ask kevin about the possible flicker.

[niksem]

hey guys where do you get 81's? Vanns does not repsond to the phone, not sure if anyone has them in stock. Also, the posted pictures come from 46" or 40" sets?

[LaserEdge]

Also how is black crush on the 81? I would imagine it doesn't crush blacks with most images. I am hoping it brings out shadow detail like no other flat panel on the market.

[vtms]

3.0 gamma again. Bottom left 0cd/m2.:D

[LaserEdge]

hey guys where do you get 81's? Vanns does not repsond to the phone, not sure if anyone has them in stock.

Trying checking if the DC (distribution center) for your closest BB has them. Kevin got his from his closest BB DC.

[LaserEdge]

3.0 gamma again. Bottom left 0cd/m2.



That is very promising. I very much want to see the 81 in a dark room with my own eyes.

[johnnybrulez]

That first pic is from http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/. Look at the URL. It's one of the most respected tech sites in the world.

Why are you highering the gamma on these Pioneer pictures taken with daylight? To prove a point? Do that to a CRT... that'll 'prove it's black level performance. That's ridiculous and dumb. The only reason people are highering the gamma on these Samsungs it seems is to test out uniformity of the local dimming tech. You're just showing a washed out color of what the screen itself would look like. This needs to quit and stay on topic. Samsung 81 series please.

Is everyone here on an agenda to sell TVs? Cripes. Grow up and let's help people instead of being a bunch of fanboys. Just for a little bit.

We need to get more impressions. :)

[vtms]

Also how is black crush on the 81? I would imagine it doesn't crush blacks with most images. I am hoping it brings out shadow detail like no other flat panel on the market.With 2-stage light modulation technology, in theory, grayscale (especially on the low end) should be pretty much perfect. But only an owner could confirm this.

[johnnybrulez]

Better check 81 live before bashing it, johnnyb. According to the first owner, 81 looks completely black out-of-the-box and there's no glow. Get a remote and tweak it to perfection.

I'm not dissing the 0ire performance. I am talking about the glow from the stand of the TV. I actually like those blue strip glow. I'd never diss a display before I check it out live. Or at least I try not to. :)

[reio-ta]

Hi reio-ta,

The manufacturing costs increase dramatically as you increase display size. That's just a curse of our current circumstances, I'm afraid. Go from 57" to 62", and I bet you'd pay a fair bit more than $9k.

-David

So to be able to afford the 70" I'd have to sell my car and get a second mortgage? :D

[taurus2007]

So to be able to afford the 70" I'd have to sell my car and get a second mortgage? :D

Get a second mortgage, sell a car, and the first born.

[darkninja67]

We need to get more impressions. :)

Yeah are there any more owners or soon to be owners out there?

[vtms]

That is very promising. I very much want to see the 81 in a dark room with my own eyes.Also notice how the increased brightness brought out additional details from the darkness of the original picture. These details would have been visible when viewed directly.

[johnnybrulez]

Yeah are there any more owners or soon to be owners out there?

What I don't get is how come one person owns it yet... Best Buy told me September 15th. Limited release?

[Tempest25]

What I don't get is how come one person owns it yet... Best Buy told me September 15th. Limited release?

Kevin already stated he works there and he picked it up from a distribution center. He said other people should be able to pick it up from a DC as well if they talk to a rep at BB.

[johnnybrulez]

Kevin already stated he works there and he picked it up from a distribution center. He said other people should be able to pick it up from a DC as well if they talk to a rep at BB.

Holy hell we can? :) I might just go on a journey to pick one up. I can always return it. I really want to see what these things can do.

[darkninja67]

Holy hell we can? :) I might just go on a journey to pick one up. I can always return it. I really want to see what these things can do.

GO GO GOOOOOOOOO

[____]

Holy hell we can? :) I might just go on a journey to pick one up. I can always return it. I really want to see what these things can do.

LOL. Johnnyb must be impressed. Buy it. Give a good review. :D

[davidjschenk]

Yeah are there any more owners or soon to be owners out there?

Hi darkninja67,

There's a decent chance that I will be. At least in my case, everything is scheduled to come to a head this Sunday. I know at least one other member is supposed to have their 81 shipping either very, very soon or perhaps already in transit (memory fails me here--check five or ten pages back in the thread).

Should I be satisfied enough to get one on Sunday, you can bet I'll be posting as much information as I can and providing pictures of everything I can think of. (The pictures are likely to suck, though, as I'm using a cheap, basic old Fuji digital camera (4mp)).

Yours,

David

[LaserEdge]

What I don't get is how come one person owns it yet... Best Buy told me September 15th. Limited release?

Yes it does seem odd how only one DC has the 81s currently. Perhaps they are in transit to other DCs as we speek.

Also I think the 15th is the in store date. Kevin mentioned something about going directly to the DC to pick it if you wanted to get it sooner.

[johnnybrulez]

LOL. Johnnyb must be impressed. Buy it. Give a good review. :D

Well I am not impressed w/ the screenshots themselves totally, but that combined with all the talk has intrigud me to no ends. But I have always been interested in these TVs once I heard of it. I'd do the same thing for a 'lowly' "Kuro" too, because I am amored with those TVs at the moment. I am no fanboy of any manufacturer or tech. Give me the better picture w/ less caveats and I will jump on it.

I am working a way out now so I can check these out. This wait is killing me!

[darkninja67]

Hi darkninja67,

There's a decent chance that I will be. At least in my case, everything is scheduled to come to a head this Sunday. I know at least one other member is supposed to have their 81 shipping either very, very soon or perhaps already in transit (memory fails me here--check five or ten pages back in the thread).

Should I be satisfied enough to get one on Sunday, you can bet I'll be posting as much information as I can and providing pictures of everything I can think of. (The pictures are likely to suck, though, as I'm using a cheap, basic old Fuji digital camera (4mp).

Yours,

David

Thanks for the update David. I am just trying to decide if the 81 will be worth the premium over the 71. I am going hunting for these tvs tomorrow. Congrats on the set as well.

[slumpey326]

where is the DC for the New york city area. Any inputs.

What exactly does limited release mean, ball park number?

[LaserEdge]

Holy hell we can? :) I might just go on a journey to pick one up. I can always return it. I really want to see what these things can do.

You need to get the BB employee to first find the SKU for the model you are interested in. After that get him to find how many of that SKU are at the DC that services that best buy. If it is at the DC then talk about buying and picking it up at the DC instead of waiting for it to come to the store. Thats how it works from what I know.

[Kamgusta]

Why are you highering the gamma on these Pioneer pictures taken with daylight? To prove a point? Do that to a CRT... that'll 'prove it's black level performance. That's ridiculous and dumb. The only reason people are highering the gamma on these Samsungs it seems is to test out uniformity of the local dimming tech. You're just showing a washed out color of what the screen itself would look like. This needs to quit and stay on topic. Samsung 81 series please.

Is everyone here on an agenda to sell TVs? Cripes. Grow up and let's help people instead of being a bunch of fanboys. Just for a little bit.

We need to get more impressions. :)I have to disagree. These Kuro images were helpful for me. If you think they are not the real deal, show me something that is.
I don't think Plasma screens (even Pioneer's ones) could ever achieve such blacks.
81s are simply marvellous from these pictures.
Unfortunately, I'd -never- buy a glossy LCD. If I liked reflections, I can get a Plasma for less.

[LaserEdge]

where is the DC for the New york city area. Any inputs.

Any knowledgable BB employee should be able to help you with that. Just call your nearest BB and ask.

Also if anyone already knows the BB SKUs for 4081, 4681, 5281 please post them as it might be helpful for other forum members.

[johnnybrulez]

I have to disagree. That Kuro images were helpful for me. If you think they are not the real deal, show me something that is.
I don't think Plasma screens (even Pioneer's ones) could ever achieve such blacks.
81s are simply marvellous from these pictures.
Unfortunately, I'd -never- buy a glossy LCD. If I liked reflections, I can get a Plasma for less.

No, but I think raising up the gamma control to achieve some sort of 'real world' impression is fair then by all means do so. But judging black level on a photograph taken 1) During the day and 2) Raising up the gamma is ridiculous.

It'll help you 'fortify' your belief that a Pioneer plasma isn't for you. Sure. But for those truly interested it's really not fair. Plasmas can't fully 'shut off', true. But the black performance can be very very good and in all cases the Kuros are very good.. regardless of how impressed I will or might be w/ Samsungs offering.

[johnnybrulez]

Well I called some Best buys... pretty much got the same answer. "Not in our system". Except one place did have it on their system, but no stock in the warehouse. If anyone is around the So Cal area and gets lucky, give me a shout out.

[bpmurr]

From exprience, I know that it is always tougher to prove anything once you got the item in your posession. Also, when you see the corners of the TV sticking out of box is never a good sign. I did not want to take chances on a $3k TV. Even FedEx drive told "Uhm, you probably want to reject this"

I would too, thanks for the extra details. I was just thinking there might have been like a whole in the box or something. Not the TV sticking out. lol

[vtms]

It seems like Kevin will remain the only owner for some time. Before we overwhelm him with too many questions, perhaps we should review what he said already so that we don't ask him redundant questions he already answered before. (I love the new multi-quote option:))

I am now the proud owner of an LN-T4681F it is in my room now and I am setting it up.

ps. if any of you live near flower mound, the flower mound warehouse has the 46s and the 52s, but not the 40s. Im not sure about the 57s. some stores even have them in stock. Im sure that other stores have them too.

The camera picked up a lot more glare than I actually saw. I dont know if it is a trick of the light. the way humans see vs. the way machines see or what. in a bit I'll see what it looks like with content on it.

The picture is Beautiful in person. Ill put in Superbit DVD of Fifth Element and (as suggested earlier) Farscape. no Blu-Ray or HDDVD yet because before this i had a 20" Sony Trinitron Tube.

Here is with lights on and next I'll do the true test, Without my curtains drawn.


Now for the tv with my window blinds open. Ill calibrate the tv when I get a chance I literally posted as soon as I lugged the thing into my room. didnt even have it out of the box yet. Yes Ill get some 4:3 content up. Yes as soon as I can Ill get something with good blacks in.

I got it at best buy in flower mound

Flower Mound is near Grapevine, wich is in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.

I cannot describe how it looks in person. The picture is excellent. The camera I am using does not even come close to doing justice to the tv.

The picture is great. I see no artifacts or noise because fo the tv. in cable broadcasts there is some just because of the signal. so far at first glance i give this tv an nine. If it had a matte finish id give it a ten. I'll get some gears up In a bit. and I still havent had time to tweek it. any halo effect you see in the pictures, I didnt see on the tv, it was only on the photos.

The sound is about the best you can find integrated in the tv. doesnt stack up against a 7.1 surround of course.

I need to figure out how to post full res pix. Ive never posted photos before today. any Suggestions? Ill get links to some full res ones when I get back and try to remember my photo bucket password.

Even with the blinds open I can watch the tv fine. in normal light the tv looks just as good as it does in the dark. no glare is visible from my viewing position from the overhead light. a lamp could be a problem I suppose. and the normal reflections that were seen with the tv off cant be seen with them on.

Fantastic pics farscaper. In person, are the blacks really as deep as they look in all those space shots?

DEEPER

There is no detectable noise from the TV so far, I do have my computer and my ceiling fan on. I will try it in a completely noiseless environment tomorrow. My DVD player is an xbox360. I didn't notice any motion blur after watching Saving Private Ryan, but Ill keep a look out. I work at best buy, so no, I did not pay MSRP. but if you buy a complete home theater, speakers, receiver, install, service plan, etc. You can get it for what I paid or even less. I did not notice any glow or bloom or any thing while watching fifth element, Unlike the pictures would have you believe, but Ill make sure to look for it and tell you if I see it. It may be that only magnolias will have it in stock. a lot of normal best buys without mags are starting to carry high end TVs. The TVs will be in all combo mags/best buys. you can buy one at any best buy regardless of whether it has a mag. you may have to wait for it or go pick it up at a warehouse though. Ill calibrate it later, check for clouding, check the back light array, and check the motion plus and Local dimming later. I did not notice any clouding so far. Thats all of the questions I saw in the thread. If I missed some or you have new ones Ill try to keep up.

Hey guys, just got home from work. I haven't had time to watch any TV yet. I skimmed through some posts and I gleamed some questions you had. One of you asked if best buy would open up an 81 so you could see it and play with it before buy it, there are no official rules for that but I can tell you what I would do. If it was supposed to be on display and just wasn't yet, I would take one out and let you see it, then put it in the back until it was supposed to be displayed. If it wasn't meant to be on display, I might if I thought there was a good chance it would be purchased. I cant really speak for anyone else though, I'm not even a Home Theater associate, I work in computers.

Another was about weight. I carried the 46" from my car to my upstairs room and I can tell you it sure felt like 70 or 75lbs. I think the Best Buy computer says that it is that weight too.

I had my computer connected via D-Sub because I didn't have a dvi to hdmi cable. the text and everything else looked crystal clear.

I saw no bleed whatsoever int the black bars on the sides in 4:3 content, I'll have to take another look to see if I see any on anamorphic.

Lastly but no least. Some of you asked if you could buy one now and pick it up right away. Some speculated that you could not and only BB employees could. there are not a huge amount, but if you live near a DDC (Delivery Distribution Center) you can buy one from any best buy in the country and pick it up. and there are some warehouses called DCs (Distribution Centers), I don't know if you can pick up from a DC but you might be able too and a store manager or a Mag associate should know if you can pick up at a DC. Anyone can do it. There is a DDC in Flower Mound, Texas, and each best buy in the US should know where their closest DDC is. the only DC I know about it is in Oklahoma or something, but I'm sure there are others. You don't have to go to the Flower Mound store, you can go to any one in the district. Flower Mound, Grapevine, Lewisville, Denton, Etc. Some stores even have some in stock. Mine had 2 52" ones yesterday. I don't know if they were customer orders or general stock though. The DDC had about 30-50 each of the 46" and 52" 81s. It didn't have any 40s yesterday but it may today or very soon. I don't know if there were any 57s I didn't check. I was worried that the 100,000:1 contrast from the 57 would burn my eyes out :rolleyes:

I'll post more pics tomorrow since I'm off. Before I go though I just wanted you to know that there is no commission whatsoever at best buy. Nobody makes money based on what they sell, and there is no credit given for sales. We are strictly hourly employees. I'll find out about the clusters tomorrow. Talk to you guys later.

[monsteraudio]

Unless you have an uncontrolled room light situation.


We know its glossy for the 100th time move on and get something else, you beat the horse to death, look for set that works for you.:eek:

[nyvram]

Instead of a "81 series owners thread" perhaps we should start a "Only person in the world with an 81 series thread". ;)

[LaserEdge]

Not sure if this helps. Here are the distribution centers for Magnolia Audio Video.

Kent, Washington
Hayward, California
Dinuba, California

Only the Dinuba center is shared with BB. All products sold by Magnolia Audio Video must first go through these warehouses to be bar coded and scanned. Magnolia Audio Video purchases directly from Samsung as it is one of their 5 primary suppliers. They claim they have never had supply issues with Samsung before. They do keep close tabs on supply issues as it is crucial to their business.

[greenland]

I have to disagree. These Kuro images were helpful for me. If you think they are not the real deal, show me something that is.
I don't think Plasma screens (even Pioneer's ones) could ever achieve such blacks.
81s are simply marvellous from these pictures.
Unfortunately, I'd -never- buy a glossy LCD. If I liked reflections, I can get a Plasma for less.

http://home.comcast.net/~rpnyc/


Old 07-04-07, 02:41 PM #1163
RPNYC
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 294

Elite 1150 Pictures

[xb1032]

What's the rush or hurry. You already have a SXRD and a Panny. Why don't you wait it out for a while.

I think it's called discontentment:D. I'd like to see both of these sets side by side to see how they compare. I know the Samsung will be brighter which I like and also what doesn't get mentioned often is the new tinted glossy screens on the 81/71/65 series renders near perfect black levels with the lights one. I'm still debating!

[xb1032]

Actually I think that should be

6. Retake every picture over again, because before it is calibrated the picures were useless.

7. It doesn't matter, 8g, sed, lasers, CRT, toothpaste and bread actually produce black. I can see grey when I screw with the image so that it has no basis in reality!#%

:)

Yea. Look at the pictures of the 71 series in that thread. Blacks look perfect on a 25k:1 dynamic CR screen. These pics are really meaningless. We need to see these sets in person. And it'd be nice to see this in a darkened room!

[xb1032]

What I want to know is if the 52" will be $5,000 and the 57" $7,000. I mean, wtf. $2,000 for 5 inches? That's not a good value at all! :eek:

Unfortunately LCD is too expensive in this size now and 60" would have been a better standard.

[WaldorfSalad]

Slight darkening in the corners in the photos could be caused by vignetting from the camera lens.
Am I the only one here who thinks its a bit odd to be judging a brand new TV and deciding if its "the one" or "the holy grail" based on feedback and photos (not great ones at that) from just ONE owner? Or am I missing something?
P.S. I certainly do not mean to demean Kevin's positive contributions to this thread. I would just like to see a few more data points.

[Tempest25]

Slight darkening in the corners in the photos could be caused by vignetting from the camera lens.
Am I the only one here who thinks its a bit odd to be judging a brand new TV and deciding if its "the one" or "the holy grail" based on feedback and photos (not great ones at that) from just ONE owner? Or am I missing something?

I'm right there with you. We haven't received the best feedback so far, to know just how well Kevin scrutinized the set. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the information he's offering. It's just not enough to base a purchase on.

As far as the photos go, as has been said, with a set of this level, there's no way photos are going to do the set justice. Aside from the camera itself being a huge limiting factor in the situation, and Kevin's stated the camera is not even close to prosumer level, the output device (our monitors) and picture compression just make the situation that much worse.

Bottom-line on something like this, aside from seeing it yourself, is going to be getting word from someone that can put various other high end sets side-by-side with this and offer comparisons between them, or have someone that's already very intimately familiar (and mostly unbiased) with the current high-end sets out there take a look at this as well and offer their opinion.

If you have the money to spend on the set, the best thing to do is probably just order it and pick it up if possible. There's always the 30-day return policy.

[westa6969]

Originally Posted by reio-ta
What I want to know is if the 52" will be $5,000 and the 57" $7,000. I mean, wtf. $2,000 for 5 inches? That's not a good value at all!
I once had that same question and it used to be much higher. Past reasoning provided was that in the production of the larger the glass it's estimated 40% glass is lost in the QC process (however, with the banding it should be much higher) and so the waste is factored in. Besides, until they have competition in the larger sizes prices remain stagnant as has Sharps 65" where they have no LCD competition except for a few rebadgers of the Sharp that will actually debut at the same or higher MSRP.

Anyone recall how much a Pioneer 60/61" used to cost? Yes, it was also a doubled factor but now they've comparatively become a bargain through competition. Someday this will occur with LCD's as the tenth gen plant Sharp will be starting soon will switch it's 52" to a 60" cut but that's about 18 months away. They also can charge the $2,000 because they have a consumer base that will pay it and if not they'll lower the threshold. I see it as a sort of indirect price fixing much as Sharp is doing with the 65" and it's rebadging by NuVision and Olevia.:)

[tombaker]

I mean, wtf. $2,000 for 5 inches? That's not a good value at all! :eek: Why does this sound like a guy trying to talk down a very high priced ummmmmm "escort"?

[davidjschenk]

Am I the only one here who thinks its a bit odd to be judging a brand new TV and deciding if its "the one" or "the holy grail" based on feedback and photos (not great ones at that) from just ONE owner?

No, you are not.

As so often happens when a new set emerges that promises all sorts of promises, folks (understandably) are getting giddy (include me in that set). Honestly, though, I think the price tag alone ought to be more than enough to reintroduce a feeling of sobriety and a healthy interest in studied, careful, rational scrutiny of these displays in person. Nobody I know plops down $3-5 large on the basis of a few pictures and some kid saying "Omfg, this thing R0XX0RZ!!! Buy one now!!!!!" (Mind you, I use this only as an example of what one often sees on the net. To my knowledge no one here has made any vapid claims like that.) Of course, someone somewhere may do exactly that, but you know the saying about fools and their money...

I think the real consensus around here is that all the signs look very promising, but we're all figuratively chewing our nails and waiting to test the displays in person.

True, a few brave souls have ventured far enough out onto a limb that they pre-ordered units sight unseen, but to me that's analogous to buying a house of which I have only seen photos. There is just no way I would do that. My sense is that virtually everyone is in an anxious holding pattern right now.

Yours,

David

[solomon]

FYI.. I called the mag hifi in washington and they said give they'll get them at the end of the month.

[glow11]

Same with Portland.

[joeLTron]

I am a Magnolia/BB employee, I've been checking on the 81's in our DC's pretty much everyday...and still none. We just got the 71's in late last week, I'm assuming the 81's will be in late this week but theres no guarantee on that. Also, this depends on location. I'm in the SoCal area, and they haven't hit here yet. Just go ask a MHT rep to check for you, those of you that need the SKU, PM me and I'll get it to you tomorrow, but you could also just tell the sales associate to check for "lnt4681" or whichever size you need.:)

[LaserEdge]

FYI.. I called the mag hifi in washington and they said give they'll get them at the end of the month.

Same with Portland.

The Southcenter Magnolia says the same thing. Not surprising since all of them are using the same warehouse in Kent, WA. Perhaps it is better asking the question has the Kent distribution center received any 81s? It is up to Samsung to decide which stores to deliver too first. It is very strange that a satellite BB DC has gotten delivery of the 81 series first. Samsung gets orders and then has to determine how to fulfill them. Samsung delivers directly to the satellite BB DC's for large TVs.

[drew138]

No, you are not.

As so often happens when a new set emerges that promises all sorts of promises, folks (understandably) are getting giddy (include me in that set). Honestly, though, I think the price tag alone ought to be more than enough to reintroduce a feeling of sobriety and a healthy interest in studied, careful, rational scrutiny of these displays in person. Nobody I know plops down $3-5 large on the basis of a few pictures and some kid saying "Omfg, this thing R0XX0RZ!!! Buy one now!!!!!" (Mind you, I use this only as an example of what one often sees on the net. To my knowledge no one here has made any vapid claims like that.) Of course, someone somewhere may do exactly that, but you know the saying about fools and their money...

I think the real consensus around here is that all the signs look very promising, but we're all figuratively chewing our nails and waiting to test the displays in person.

True, a few brave souls have ventured far enough out onto a limb that they pre-ordered units sight unseen, but to me that's analogous to buying a house of which I have only seen photos. There is just no way I would do that. My sense is that virtually everyone is in an anxious holding pattern right now.

Yours,

David


Well said. Especially on the price side of things. For the price of a 52" 81, you can get a PIO FHD1 50" Plasma, which is still IMO the best picture I've seen (granted I'm not up to speed on the Kuro's and latest gen plasma tech) but at this price range you really do have your choices.

Also, there is no need for an owners thread unless there is at least 6-10 active owners and someone willing to maintain the first post.

[HTPC4ME]

My sense is that virtually everyone is in an anxious holding pattern right now.

Tell the tower I need priority; I'm running out of fuel. :p

[davidjschenk]

Tell the tower I need priority; I'm running out of fuel. :p

Yeah, man. I'm spending wayyyyy too much time on this thread these days. I gotta take up knitting, or somethin'.

-David

[muzik360]

I tried ordering the 81 series as our DC now has it (east coast). The 46 and 52 sizes are in our DC while the 40 hasnt shown up. I can order them all and even though the 40 isnt available they all have a delivery date of 9/13. So, there almost here.

[muzik360]

from BBY/Mag btw

[socalr6]

I buy houses every day only based on photos.

Ok I bid for the lender in fcl sales of our props but I still have to come up with an amout to bid.

I just got hit again on my Yamaha R6 on the way home from work yesterday. My shoulder is sore but full gear saved me. It's geting sold! It's an old 2001 so I should get enough combined with what I have in cash to get this set! Yes I'm a fool that want's to part with cash and a death wish for this TV :)

[spincut]

damn , in pics 71F and 81F looks the same PQ
i still dont understand the diference :O

yeah but i went to circuit city today and they had the 71 (finally got to see that one) and it didnt seem to be any different from the 65! They didnt have an 81, but what i'm saying is that sometimes it's not always easy to tell, even if it's two seperate generations, and they do genuinely have a big difference in between.

More pics from a previous post in this thread, also gamma'd to 3.0. Note the gray bars in the second image, compared to the blackness of the bezel (visible on the top and right sides of second image).

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7237/4z8r50i2xk3.png