I heard from a well known reviewer that he has seen the 81 series at a Samsung show and says it looked good: he pointed out that is uses white LEDs as opposed to the Sony 46" Qualia 005, which was the first LED backlit LCD which used R+G+B LEDs (and was a big disappointment: it listed for $15,000 and has since been discontinued)

He expects to receive a sample for review shortlyNice. I would be very surprised, though, if that info about 81 Series using white LEDs was correct.

Nice. I would be very surprised, though, if that info about 81 Series using white LEDs was correct.

I wondered about this myself: if true, it is more akin to a CCFL backlight which could be considered a 'whitish blue' except it appears the LEDs can be modulated individually or in small groups in the Samsung

In the Sony 005, there was no way to individually address or modulate the backlight, except for an overall backlight adjustment

as mentioned I preordered the 4681 and am anxious to hear some comments prior to its shipment so I can back out if necessary

If Samsung gets it right, it could address the single biggest weakness (CCFL backlighting) in today's LCD displays

Glad to hear from you Mark and I hope if you get the 4681 series, that you post your comments. I know it's hard to be a first adopter but you'll be a trusted source. If you do back out the 71 series looks great to me.

Thank you

I am still using my trusty LC45GX6U which cost $5500.00 when it first came out: it still looks very good to me

I was considering some of the new 1080p CCFL LCD sets but reading all of the issues of banding and clouding I decided to wait for something new: I had preordered the Qualia 005 a couple of years ago but canceled it when I saw the reviews.

being an early adopter is an expensive, risky hobby :o

Nice. I would be very surprised, though, if that info about 81 Series using white LEDs was correct.

I think that white leds have lower color gamut than rgb leds. About 40% vs 100+%. I read the info from recent displaysearch article. White leds are still good for low cost local dimming solution.

mgbaron:
<Maybe you could attach it as a file?> I'm sorry I can't
but if you could do that: under the rubric <Project> search for Rose then click <search> button at right there is a list of several european models of 81 series (LE52/70F96BD) then you can just download the file.

Thanks! I figured it out :)

Any updates for us Canadians? Anything from Future Shop or Best Buy? Prices, delivery dates?

Local Calgary FS said about a month still. About $800 more than 71 series was all I could get for price.

I think that white leds have lower color gamut than rgb leds. About 40% vs 100+%. I read the info from recent displaysearch article. White leds are still good for low cost local dimming solution.

You are completely right. White LEDs only have some few very narrow wavelength, actually it is a blue LED with a phophor layer that produce some yellow light, together the light will look cool white, but it will produce many colors very bad.

But if you use af RBG LED you can produces every color you want, the performans depents on how effective its diffuser is.

So Samsung having 105% color gamut is only possible with RGB leds.

So Samsung having 105% color gamut is only possible with RGB leds.No

No

Could you share your insight about this matter then?

So Samsung having 105% color gamut is only possible with RGB leds.

Yes, white LEDs have much worse color output than CCFL. RGB LEDs can be adjusted too match real white, as you can adjust every color by it self. How good it blends the colors together is up to the diffuser.

Yes, white LEDs have much worse color output than CCFL. RGB LEDs can be adjusted too match real white, as you can adjust every color by it self.That's exactly why RGB LEDs would be a superior solution to white LEDs. Obviously it's possible that 81s use white LEDs but that's the first time I'm hearing about it so I doubt this is the case. After all, aren't white LEDs more expensive than RGB LEDs?

After looking at the 71 in stores.....until they come up the 81 in matte screen type....I can not be an owner. The extra contrast makes the reflections all the easier to see.

I am sure I am in a large group of buyers.....I would say that at least 25% of the entire LCD buyer pool would not buy a glossy reflective panel.

Yes I realize if I turn off all the lights in front of the TV...and do not have any light coming in.....it will provide a noticeably better picture than matte.

That scenerio is not used by 80% of buyers. Windows seem to be very propular in homes it turns out.

I very much appreciate the advances of the 81, but the defect of easily viewable screen reflection is a far greater error in display characteristic than I can tolerate.

Screen reflection is about 5 times the visual defect as is the famous "clouding" issue....that its created by outside lighting is no different IMO as if the TV backlight generated it.....in the end the Gloss screen is showing lighting that is not in source material....by any other name....is just as bothersome to the viewer.

Come on Samsung....slap a matte panel to it....you can do it.

Arrghh, Tombaker, I feel for you!!! It rots they didn't come out with the matte screen.

Regarding the clouding however, I must respectfully disagree. The screen reflection, while annoying, was done on purpose by Samsung. It is not a defect, and the fact that it can be easily mitigated by some albeit "pain in the neck" lighting control by the homeowner renders it a non issue for most. The clouding IS a true factory defect, and something that the owner can not control. If it's there, it's there. So sorry, try another panel. After two or three returns, I'd be off Sony for life. I hate spending that kind of money for defective gear, it's not moral that they let those things off the line IMO.

Now I do agree with you that a reflection is WAY more annoying, and would be visible in lots more scenes, whereas the clouding rears it's ugly head primarily in dark screens.

I for one am gonna take a couple looks, then probably get the 5281f. I've looked at some friends plasmas, with their glossy screens, and for the little bit of daytime tv I watch, well it's what I'm used to, no different than the 27" RCA we have now. I just hope up here in Vancouver the BB's and Futureshops get em in soon!!

After all, aren't white LEDs more expensive than RGB LEDs?

I think that you can replace three led elements(RGB) with one white led, so white led backlight should be cheaper. I might have missed something though.

I think that you can replace three led elements(RGB) with one white led, so white led backlight should be cheaper. I might have missed something though.But wouldn't a single RGB "unit" output 3x more light than a single white LED? If so, then an LED backlight would require 3x less RGB LED units than single white LEDs.

That's exactly why RGB LEDs would be a superior solution than white LEDs. Obviously it's possible that 81s use white LEDs but that's the first time I'm hearing about it so I doubt this is the case. After all, aren't white LEDs more expensive than RGB LEDs?


No I actually think the RGB LEDs are more expensive as it contains 3 or more LEDs in same package. The white LEDs just contains one blue and some "cheap" YAG phosphor.

I do not know which LED technology the 81s contains, but I will expect it to be RGB LEDs, as they have tried the white LEDs out and it wasn't a succes, and the color gamut is high in the 81s.

For the Canadians on this site. I found an online retailer listing the 5281. Unfortunately it's not in stock.

Dumoulin.com (http://www.dumoulin.com/)

Last week I was at BB Magnolia in West Paterson NJ. Their PC listed availability as 8/26. This week the representitive said it would be more likely "early September".
On another subject, Sharp recently demonstrated a prototype of what they considered "the ultimate LCD panel". They did not say the panel had an RGB LED BL but a photo looking through the slits in the back of the set revealed red and blue lights. Sharp projects these panels to be available in 2010. Current sets will most likely have white LEDs (which BTW are in short supply). The first 81s are probably from the pilot production lot and will have limited availabilty I suspect. Once the sets are in full production, and customers (us) have completed our Quality Inspection Review, the panels will be more available and the price will drop to be very competitive with older technology.

PDF specs download on the Abt Electronics site show that the Wide color gamut in the 81 series is using CCFL(Cold
Cathode Fluorescent Lamp)


LN-T5281F
52" 1080p HDTV with Integrated ATSC Tuner
Features
Widescreen Aspect Ratio
HD-Grade 1920 (H) x 1080 (V) pixel
resolution: High resolution pixel density
with built-in image scaler to handle
inputs from a variety of digital and
analog audio/ video sources.
LED Motion Plus™
Super clear panel
Wide Color Gamut CCFL (Cold
Cathode Fluorescent Lamp): Provides
colors in your picture that were not available
before.
Wide Color Enhancer
optimizes a color’s hue resulting in more
natural colors.
178º(H)/178º(V) viewing angle
improves viewing angle, contrast,
and brightness to provide an even
better picture.
10 bit processor
500,000:1 contrast ratio/550nit
brightness: As two of the most
important determining factors in overall
picture quality, contrast and brightness
levels achieve new heights in this latest
generation LCD panel. Samsung’s
new LCD TV’s give the most stunning
realistic picture quality ever from a flat
panel set.
Wide Viewing Angle Panel
Built-in digital tuner: (ATSC/Clear QAM)
Picture-in-Picture (PIP) enables
convenient simultaneous viewing of TV
programs and video or PC sources.
Game Mode enhances dark areas,
sharpens the picture, speeds up the
image processing response and
enhances the sounds of your games.
Picture and sound quality optimized for
the special needs of gaming systems at
the touch of a button.
Response time: Fast 8ms response
time minimizes blurring of moving video.
V-Chip system1 allows blocking
of rated TV and movie programs
determined by the parent to contain
objectionable content.
Trilingual on-screen displays in
English, Spanish or French.
Variable sleep timer to turn the TV
off in varying time intervals.
SRS TruSurround XT™: TruSurround is
a patented SRS technology that solves
the problem of playing 5.1
multichannel content over two speakers.
TruSurround delivers a compelling,
virtual surround sound experience
through any two-speaker playback
system, including internal television
speakers


Samsung Electronics America, Inc.
105 Challenger Road
Ridgefield Park, NJ 07660-0511
Tel (201) 229-4000 • 1-800-SAMSUNG
www.samsung.


The specs are provide to Abt by Samsung, and has the Samsung Logo as well as the above contact information. If the specs are wrong, then Samsung is the one that got them wrong, which means that all their specs, and claims are suspect.

PDF specs download on the Abt Electronics site show that the Wide color gamut in the 81 series is using CCFL(Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp)

That ABT spec is bollocks. CCFL is used in 71 series.

That ABT spec is bollocks. CCFL is used in 71 series.

Prove it.

Prove it.

Are you joking?? :rolleyes:

Prove it.

Well 81 uses LEDs instead of CCFLs as light source. :rolleyes:

71 Series - CCFL backlight
81 Series - LED backlight
Local dimming requires LEDs. CCFLs are practical only for global dimming.

Don't tell me. I did not provide the specs. Samsung did. Go read them on the Abt Electronics website, and see for yourself. If Samsung is that careless with the specs they publish, then take it up with them.:rolleyes:

Ehem.


I FOUND FIVE IN STOCK!!!
(on the floor, not in the warehouse)


Does anyone else on this forum live in central PA? If so, PM me, because I'm about to make a little drive here today, see? The guy is going to call me back in a bit and we'll work out how quickly they can get it on display for me and how best to hook it up to a PC for some tests and all the other fancy jazz I can try. I also am going to try to get them to hook a high-definition movie player up to it. With any luck at all I will have some interesting information for people this evening.

Right--I have to get my current display all boxed up and disconnected here for the return, plus I have some logistical shmutz to take care of. I'll hang around here on the forum for half an hour or so, but after that I doubt I'll be back until this evening.

Wish me luck,

David

Don't tell me. I did not provide the specs. Samsung did. Go read them on the Abt Electronics website, and see for yourself. If Samsung is that careless with the specs they publish, then take it up with them.:rolleyes:

First you say: Prove it. And then you say: Don't tell me. ???

People are starting to go Mad around here, can we get some PICS please.

Didn't someone say they were getting their's delivered today???

Ehem.


I FOUND FIVE IN STOCK!!!
(on the floor, not in the warehouse)


Does anyone else on this forum live in central PA? If so, PM me, because I'm about to make a little drive here today, see? The guy is going to call me back in a bit and we'll work out how quickly they can get it on display for me and how best to hook it up to a PC for some tests and all the other fancy jazz I can try. I also am going to try to get them to hook a high-definition movie player up to it. With any luck at all I will have some interesting information for people this evening.

Right--I have to get my current display all boxed up and disconnected here for the return, plus I have some logistical shmutz to take care of. I'll hang around here on the forum for half an hour or so, but after that I doubt I'll be back until this evening.

Wish me luck,

David

I would be careful posting that until you see one. Espically since you have a drive between you at the tv's you might get there and everyone on this forum has beat you to it !! LOL

Its funny that when ever people supposedly have insider information and say "Will post tommorow" they never post again.

This kevin for instance. I also recall some guy stating a month or so ago he was going to a Samsung Training Session and he never posted again. At least two more such instances are also vaguely familiar.

If I got the set I too would be enjoying the set rather than writing about it online but its rather annoying when we've been in the same bout for so long, without info, and we've been entertaining and supporting each other to hang in there than at a critical time these same people dont give back to the forum when they claim they have info.

Z

First you say: Prove it. And then you say: Don't tell me. ???

One clown asked me if I was serious. So far no one has offered any proof, they just keep posting their own claims without providing any documentation. That is why, I will say this slowly so that you can grasp it, telling me stuff over and over, without providing documentation, is not proving it. Get it?????.

First you say: Prove it. And then you say: Don't tell me. ???
Then blame it on Samsung! :rolleyes:

I would be careful posting that until you see one. Espically since you have a drive between you at the tv's you might get there and everyone on this forum has beat you to it !! LOL

Heheheheh...

Oh, fiddlesticks. If other people are so crazy for the displays that they get the drop on me, so be it. I'm not that hung up on getting one (I mean, they are still very expensive toys, after all).

Now, the man with whom I spoke physically checked and made sure they were there (I was rather particular about that), and they are. They don't have any of the 40' models yet, but they have one coming in either this weekend or early next week, so probably I'll just put it on order.

Yours,

David

You'd better have them take a picture of the box label showing that it's an 81 series before you go on the trek. I've been told such and such is in stock to find out it's really not there.

Mike

One clown asked me if I was serious. So far no one has offered any proof, they just keep posting their own claims without providing any documentation. That is why, I will say this slowly so that you can grasp it, telling me stuff over and over, without providing documentation, is not proving it. Get it?????.

The only clown here is you. Local dimming isn't possible with CCFL, only with LEDs something like that is possible. And local dimming is one of the promotion keys of the 81s like 100000 dynamic contrast. That will prove it for any one with a small tech insight.

Will it prove it to you if i tell you that i am electronic technician and i tell you?

You'd better have them take a picture of the box label showing that it's an 81 series before you go on the trek. I've been told such and such is in stock to find out it's really not there.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Well, he seemed fairly knowledgeable about what he was looking at. They're putting one of them on display right now and the 40" model is expected in a little over a week. There's another store, though, the same distance from my house, that might have the 40" models in sooner (~Tuesday or Wednesday), so if I stick with the 40" choice (I fully expect to), I might go with them.

I'm bringing my digital camera, my copies of the Star Wars and LOTR trilogies, some pictures for testing over/under-scan, and my DVI cable just in case they don't have one loose. Can anyone think of anything else? Am I forgetting something?

-David

One clown asked me if I was serious. So far no one has offered any proof, they just keep posting their own claims without providing any documentation. That is why, I will say this slowly so that you can grasp it, telling me stuff over and over, without providing documentation, is not proving it. Get it?????.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87459&d=1187544242

There have been plenty of press releases and other retailer specs about this as well. Your going to side with the lone retailer who messed the specs up?

Hi Mike,
Well, he seemed fairly knowledgeable about what he was looking at. They're putting one of them on display right now and the 40" model is expected in a little over a week.

Ask them if "LED" is somewhere on the box or on the bezel. This way you'll be sure they have 81s instead of identically-looking 71s.

I'm bringing my digital camera, my copies of the Star Wars and LOTR trilogies, some pictures for testing over/under-scan, and my DVI cable just in case they don't have one loose. Can anyone think of anything else? Am I forgetting something?
-David
Just don't forget to come back and tell us about everything, okay? Good luck!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87459&d=1187544242

There have been plenty of press releases and other retailer specs about this as well. Your going to side with the lone retailer who messed the specs up?

Go to the site. The specs are provided by Samsung, and are a pdf download from them, with all their contact information, and Logo on the documentation. It has the Model numbers on the sheets. They also provide a pdf download of the entire owner's manual. Abt did not write it. It just posted the link to the pdfs that Samsung provided.

Stop with all this killing the messenger rubbish. I read the specs, and found that information in them. I did not write them. Neither did the vendor. Samsung did. Any mistakes in the specs that are being promulgated, are being done so because Samsung screwed up. If the documentation is wrong, and I suspect that it may very well be, then that brings into question Samsung's attention to details, and makes them look sloppy. Imagine how many people, who are browsing through Abt Electronics site, and that is their only source of information on the new 81 series. For your information. Abt Electronics is not some small time operation, and have a sterling reputation.

well the Crutchfield site is clearly showing the 81 series with LED backlighting and I think it is generally understood that this is the major feature of this new display

I think there is confusion with listing specs of a new product:

If my new LNT 4681 comes with CCFL backlight I will return it

The only clown here is you. Local dimming isn't possible with CCFL, only with LEDs something like that is possible. And local dimming is one of the promotion keys of the 81s like 100000 dynamic contrast. That will prove it for any one with a small tech insight.

Will it prove it to you if i tell you that i am electronic technician and i tell you?

I don't give a rat's arse what you claim to be. All I did was reveal that samsung was publishing specs that said that the 81 series was using CCFL. I did not write it. I just wrote that was was in their pdf specs sheet. The vast majority of people who will read those specs on the site, will be getting that as their first detailed description of the 81 series. They will not have you on speed dial, to verify if the specs Samsung posted are accurate. Sounds like you are busy defending bad specs. Some Engineering approach. :rolleyes:

One clown asked me if I was serious.

I'm glad you find me amusing.

While this isn't hard proof, you can see in the manuals that the 81 series makes reference to LED, while the 71 series does not.

LNT 71 Series (http://www.samsung.com/download/FileView.aspx?cttfileid=1584431&type=TV&typecode=1&subtype=LCD&subtypecode=101&model=LN-T4671F&filetype=UM&language=)
LNT 81 Series (http://www.samsung.com/download/FileView.aspx?cttfileid=1584432&type=TV&typecode=1&subtype=LCD&subtypecode=101&model=LN-T4681F&filetype=UM&language=)

well the Crutchfield site is clearly showing the 81 series with LED backlighting and I think it is generally understood that this is the major feature of this new display

I think there is confusion with listing specs of a new product:

If my new LNT 4681 comes with CCFL backlight I will return it

Does Crutchfield have the Pdf Specs and Owner's manual downloads provided by Samsung, like Abt Electronics does. All I did was point out what is in the specs that Samsung provided. It probably is a error on their part, but why should the average shopper have to wade through such false details provided by the manufacturer.

...

Could we all please calm down ;)

I got a Crutchfield catalog a couple of days ago and there is a big spread on the new 81 series describing the LED backlighting

I called my dealer and he confirmed the LED feature: clearly the 81 series is being pitched with LED backlighting: go to the Crutchfield site and see for yourself

I'm glad you find me amusing.

While this isn't hard proof, you can see in the manuals that the 81 series makes reference to LED, while the 71 series does not.

LNT 71 Series (http://www.samsung.com/download/FileView.aspx?cttfileid=1584431&type=TV&typecode=1&subtype=LCD&subtypecode=101&model=LN-T4671F&filetype=UM&language=)
LNT 81 Series (http://www.samsung.com/download/FileView.aspx?cttfileid=1584432&type=TV&typecode=1&subtype=LCD&subtypecode=101&model=LN-T4681F&filetype=UM&language=)

Well, I provided a posting clip from the Samsung PDF, and told people where they could read it for theirselves. Then you come back with: "are you serious". Put yourself in my position. If you had discovered the specs, and you just reported what was written on Samsung's own specs, and I responded with " are you serious", what would you make of it?.

You obsess over the fact that the Abt spec sheet mistakenly mentions "Wide Color Gamut CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp)" once, but you conveniently ignore that the spec sheet also mentions "LED Motion PlusTM," "Wide Color Gamut LED backlight," and "500,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio with LED SmartLightingTM." The 81F series cannot have both CCFL & LED. The CCFL listing is a mistake. Get over it!

AJ

OK that is enough: now back to the Samsung 81 series with LED backlighting

edit

OK we have had a bit of fun but now let's get serious: there is a LOT of interest in this new display: keep your posts ON Topic and civil (you have been warned)

Hi Mike,

Well, he seemed fairly knowledgeable about what he was looking at. They're putting one of them on display right now and the 40" model is expected in a little over a week. There's another store, though, the same distance from my house, that might have the 40" models in sooner (~Tuesday or Wednesday), so if I stick with the 40" choice (I fully expect to), I might go with them.

I'm bringing my digital camera, my copies of the Star Wars and LOTR trilogies, some pictures for testing over/under-scan, and my DVI cable just in case they don't have one loose. Can anyone think of anything else? Am I forgetting something?

-David

Recommend DisplayMate if you are going to be hooking up a laptop. It has lots of test patterns you can run through pretty quickly. You should be able to do some calibration using display mate. My gaming laptop has a DVI output, so that with DVI to HDMI cable would be my main test vehicle.

Another source for LED BL: Cnet

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-and-plasma/samsung-ln-t5281f/4505-6482_7-32514517.html?tag=prod.txt.4

I'm so p!ssed. I JUST bought the 4061 (got the 61 due to the TV being in the kitchen - no gloss screen) after weeks of researching and remodeling my kitchen to fit - 6 days later I see the 71 is available (I know the screen is glossy, but it has the 120Hz and more contrast) where I bought my 61 - is the difference that much better? Should I return it (if I even can)? The price difference for me is 800 bucks which is negligible. I am not going to go with the 81 for the kitchen, but I will be in the market for a new living room TV just after Christmas and that will either be an 46/52 - 81 or a plasma.

Well, I provided a posting clip from the Samsung PDF, and told people where they could read it for theirselves. Then you come back with: "are you serious". Put yourself in my position. If you had discovered the specs, and you just reported what was written on Samsung's own specs, and I responded with " are you serious", what would you make of it?.

But why post something wich is clear error? If samsung write in pdf document that 81 series has 1000:1 contrast ratio you would post that? yes..maybe for fun..

If you go to samsung (UK) page and see specs you will see this:

Specifications:

Basic Info
Model Code....................LE52F96BD...... LE70F96BD
Inch.............................52".................70"
Full HD..........................Yes................yes
Super Clear....................yes...............No (?!)
LED Smart Lighting........yes............yes
iDTV Type......................Pan-EU..........Pan-EU
Movie Plus.....................yes.................yes
Speaker Type................(Hidden/Side/Array)...Hidden/Side
HDMI-CEC......................yes................yes
HDMI Version (1,2/1.3).....1.3................1.3
Auto-Wallmount Support....yes...............no-
HD Ready........................yes...............yes
1080p signal support.........yes...............yes
Resolution.......................1920*1080.....1920*1080
Dynamic Contrast Ratio......500,000:1......500,000:1
Wide Viewing angle............yes..............yes
100Hz Motion Plus.............no................no
Wide Color Enhancer..........yes...............yes
DNIe™............................yes...............yes
Sound Output(RMS)..........15W*2...........15W*2
Stereo Type....................A2/NiCAM.......A2/NiCAM
Sound Effect system............SRS Surround XT
Feature Sleep Timer...........yes................yes
Clock & On/Off timer..........yes.................yes
Still Picture......................yes.................yes
Teletext(TTXT)................1.000 TXT........1.000 TXT
Auto Channel Search.........yes.................yes
Picture - in - Picture........1 Tuner...........1 Tuner
Auto Power Off.................yes.................yes
OSD language...................EU 21EA..........EU 21EA
Auto Volume Leveller..........yes................yes
Game Mode......................yes.................yes
System Color system.........EU Multi...........EU Multi
Power.............................Free Volt..........Free Volt
Headphone......................1.....................1
S-Video..........................1.....................1
HDMI..............................1.....................1
USB 2.0...........................1....................1
Composite, L/R.................1.....................1
Input & Output (Rear)
RF Input..........................1.....................1
Component(Y/Pb/Pr)..........1.....................1
Scart..............................2.....................2
HDMI..............................2......................2
PC Input (D-sub)..............1......................1
Audio Out, L/R..................1......................1
Optical sound out..............1......................1
RS232C (for service only)....1.....................1
Power..............................310W................540W
SET Size with Stand...........1372*319.9*845.4.....1771*420*1078
SET Size without Stand.......1372*120*779.8.......1771*150*1023
Weight Set weight with stand.42.................96

Hello guys! this is my first post ever but i have been following this samsung81 thred since the beginning! i went to time warner center today to check out the 57 inch sammy and i was blown away by the pic performance. i took some pics with my sony dsc-t30 camera to share the good and bed stuff. First of all color accuracy was right on spot with gray scale and black level. The glossy screen acted like a mirror so that is the biggest problem with the tv. impossible to enjoy it daytime!!!! if you have a pitch black room than there is no competition. Planet earth was shown from blu-ray and i have never seen it more life like pictures from any display device EVER!! I fell in love with this tv!! Pros: everything you can ask for but the GLOSSY screen.

if you have a pitch black room than there is no competition. Planet earth was shown from blu-ray and i have never seen it more life like pictures from any display device EVER!! I fell in love with this tv!!
Now, that is the kind of response I was expecting and hoping for. Thanks for this.

57-inch 81 - many more dimming zones. :)

I'm so p!ssed. I JUST bought the 4061 (got the 61 due to the TV being in the kitchen - no gloss screen) after weeks of researching and remodeling my kitchen to fit - 6 days later I see the 71 is available ... The 4061 is a nice choice for a kitchen, usually a well lit environment. Tweak it and enjoy!

Mark1080p is going to have a field day with this one: :-)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87874&d=1187976955

This a giant set. Thanks for posting those images! Hopefully the floodgates are about to open on reviews and pics here.

It'll never happen but I wish there was some way to quell the glossy screen discussion. Everyone agrees that reflections from bright rooms is a major drawback; but obviously there is a large section of the market that is OK with this reality, or willing to live with it. A portion of the world is not OK with it. Yes, we all wish there was a matte screen option available, but there isn't and they aren't going to produce one. It's like finding the perfect house in the wrong neighborhood. If you can live with it, great. If not, please move on and stop wishing the house was in a different neighborhood.

:) :) :)

Any updates for us Canadians? Anything from Future Shop or Best Buy? Prices, delivery dates?


would like to know also or if the 81's are at least in the bestbuy/futureshop system so they can order them in. I can get the 4081 for $2800CDN at one place, any employees of these stores here think they'll do the pricematch +10% on that price?

Mark1080p is going to have a field day with this one: :-)The guys have convinced me that enough is enough.
Of the 4 pics, the planet Earth does look very good.
I'll let someone else mention the problems with the others.
I see this thing as a home theater piece of equipment.

You guys are suckers. LED backlight is marketing BS.

You guys are suckers. LED backlight is marketing BS.

Hey good morning :D

Hello guys! this is my first post ever but i have been following this samsung81 thred since the beginning! i went to time warner center today to check out the 57 inch sammy and i was blown away by the pic performance. i took some pics with my sony dsc-t30 camera to share the good and bed stuff. First of all color accuracy was right on spot with gray scale and black level. The glossy screen acted like a mirror so that is the biggest problem with the tv. impossible to enjoy it daytime!!!! if you have a pitch black room than there is no competition. Planet earth was shown from blu-ray and i have never seen it more life like pictures from any display device EVER!! I fell in love with this tv!! Pros: everything you can ask for but the GLOSSY screen.

Zolanyc... It's great to get some feedback from another person who has actually seen the 81 in person! Obviously impossible to do a comparison to other tvs there, but assuming you have been looking at the latest tech like the rest of us, how does this 81 series compare to the new pioneers, xbrs, etc...

Thanks for your input!

The guys have convinced me that enough is enough.
Of the 4 pics, the planet Earth does look very good.
I'll let someone else mention the problems with the others.
I see this thing as a home theater piece of equipment.

The lighting in that pic above looks pretty dim. How are we seeing all the reflections? Camera flash? Kevin had some pics with the overhead lights on and the glare wasn't that bad.

I would like to know if the reflections are as bad as RPCRT's and Plasma's?

would like to know also or if the 81's are at least in the bestbuy/futureshop system so they can order them in. I can get the 4081 for $2800CDN at one place, any employees of these stores here think they'll do the pricematch +10% on that price?

Would you mind telling us where that place would be ? Thanks.

I just received my 4081F today and I'm putting it through its paces now. The LED backlighting demo included with the set is pretty convincing. Any advice on calibrations so far, and also is there anything you guys would like to know?

i will buy a 52 inch set as soon as possible. i dont like plasma sets . they are heavy , make heat ,noise,. i think 81 series has only one competition : KURO ELITE (1080p sets) ! I was watching the 57 inch set for at least 30 min and i did not want to leave!!! i love Planet earth and the rainforest episode looked very very lifelike without any digital artifact. it really was like watching a film at the movies.!!! analog looking stuff i am telling you!

I just received my 4081F today and I'm putting it through its paces now. The LED backlighting demo included with the set is pretty convincing. Any advice on calibrations so far, and also is there anything you guys would like to know?How does this thing handle motion? There should be another demo for that. Thanks.

Brackhar your not going to disappear on us like other people are you :P

I just received my 4081F today and I'm putting it through its paces now. The LED backlighting demo included with the set is pretty convincing. Any advice on calibrations so far, and also is there anything you guys would like to know?

Congratulations! How does it compare to the other available sets you have seen the new pioneer 1080p kuro? XBR4/5s etc.

How does it handle fast motion?

How does it really look with dark scenes? Artifacts? Black crush? Do the colors look natural?

3 more pics

I just received my 4081F today and I'm putting it through its paces now. The LED backlighting demo included with the set is pretty convincing. Any advice on calibrations so far, and also is there anything you guys would like to know?

Give us pictures! Please? Doesn't matter if they're not good ;)

I am mainly interested about two things: motion and black levels in a dark room.

Thanks for coming here to share this moment with us!

I just received my 4081F today and I'm putting it through its paces now. The LED backlighting demo included with the set is pretty convincing. Any advice on calibrations so far, and also is there anything you guys would like to know?

Fresh Meat!

Motion and black levels are unbeatable!! I cant tell you enough that the watching experience with the 57 inch sammy was mind blowing and i was about 6 feet from it not more .

I just received my 4081F today and I'm putting it through its paces now. The LED backlighting demo included with the set is pretty convincing. Any advice on calibrations so far, and also is there anything you guys would like to know?

Mind trying a video game with motionPlus both on and off? Something with fast motion. If you don't have video games, and action movie would be fine. Actually I've heard people test that motion stuff where there are movies which pan and have a newspaper in the shot.

Motion and black levels are unbeatable!! I cant tell you enough that the watching experience with the 57 inch sammy was mind blowing and i was about 6 feet from it not more .

Interesting that you saw the 81 with the Planet Earth Blu-Ray because it is the disc that I always bring along with me to test TVs in stores.

This DVD has slow camera pans that make judder on 60Hz sets very clear; the slow movement is not fluid. On 120Hz sets though (especially the XBR4) the movement was silky smooth on long camera pans.

How is it on the 81? Are you normally bothered by the 3:2 pulldown or you usually don't see it anyway? If you usually see it, did it disappear on the 81?

You guys are suckers. LED backlight is marketing BS.

Why do you say that?. Provide some concrete proof of what you claim!.

...

Zolanyc, what are those blue box reflections in your photo's? Just trying to get an idea if I can control the environment enough to get one of these guys.

Blue boxes are the reflections of floor designs(lot of glass furnitures lit up with blue neons) 3:2 pull down? it looked direct 24p to me just like in a movie theater .

Hey guys i'm a bb employee and i'm gonna try and find the skus today and see if they are in our warehouse. This will be in the oklahoma region for all of you interested

Blue boxes are the reflections of floor designs(lot of glass furnitures lit up with blue neons) 3:2 pull down? it looked direct 24p to me just like in a movie theater .

That's a good sign!

Blue boxes are the reflections of floor designs(lot of glass furnitures lit up with blue neons) 3:2 pull down? it looked direct 24p to me just like in a movie theater .

Yeah, but do you usually notice pulldown? Some people don't notice it on 60Hz displays anyway.

Brackhar your not going to disappear on us like other people are you :P

Nope. :)

Congratulations! How does it compare to the other available sets you have seen the new pioneer 1080p kuro? XBR4/5s etc.

How does it handle fast motion?

How does it really look with dark scenes? Artifacts? Black crush? Do the colors look natural?

Comparison is pretty darn good. The picture quality appears better than the TH-42PZ700U that my father picked up two months ago. I can't compare to the Kuro, as I've not seen it. Thus far the only thing that I've not seen perform well was when I flipped to Avatar: The Last Air Bender. There was a good amount of artifacting around the sharp lines, but I don't know if it's the TV, the Cable Box, the Signal, or just normal to expect with that type of image on a HD tv. Right now I've connected my HD cable box to my tv via the HDMI port.

Fast motion thus far seems quite good. I popped in Gears of War as a test and honestly I didn't see any problems at all. This was only with 7 minutes of testing though, so I'll let you know if that changes. Keep in mind I only unpacked the TV about 40 minutes ago, so I've not given it serious stress tests so far. I'll let you know if my opinion changes. I am noticing some ghosting on my digital cable signle, but this is from the SD channels and again I don't know the direct cause.

I've noticed no problems at all with dark scenes currently. If anything I'm more impressed with how the localized backlighting helps in the brighter colors in a dark scene. White shirts in night scenes, etc.

I've also noticed that the set does a really good job with skin tones. This is especially obvious when you turn on the LED demo.

Is the blue horizontal line across much of this picture a reflection of the blue boxes that you referred to. Did you notice it, when you were watching the TV, or did it just show up in the camera shot. Kevin, the chap who posted the first shots, said that the reflections looked much worse in his pictures than what he actually saw on his set.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87874&d=1187976955

Blue boxes are the reflections of floor designs(lot of glass furnitures lit up with blue neons) 3:2 pull down? it looked direct 24p to me just like in a movie theater .

if you have blu ray, output the player to 1080p24 and hit info on the 81 remote and see if the tv is displaying the movie at 24p I stead of 60hz. Thanks. Where did u get ur 81?

Blue boxes are the reflections of floor designs(lot of glass furnitures lit up with blue neons) 3:2 pull down? it looked direct 24p to me just like in a movie theater .What you're saying makes sense as 81s use pretty much the same method for dealing with the potential blur as film projectors. Instead of illuminating all the frames at all times and relying on increased refresh speeds (120Hz tech), the backlight illuminates the LC panel only for a fraction of a total frame time and only when liquid crystals have already assumed their correct positions. Thanks for the pics and impressions.

Hey guys what are you talking about? Planet earth on blu-ray is not 24fps it is 60Hz.

I would die to see the Planet Earth segment where the octopus is scurrying along the ocean floor. It looks great on my plasma and should look incredible on the 81.

Good news to see more people getting these sets in their hands.

in reading the CNET article it seems to indicate Samsung has a 120 hz version with LED BL coming out soon

Gotta ask this again since we now have two owners with this tv.

Play a game that doesnt use a motion blur effect and let us know if the motion plus does anything reduce lcd blur and by how much.

Also if possible find a place in game where there's a large contrast of bright and dark like gears of war. Dont move your character and then take a picture without local dimming on and one with it on. I'd imagine it should be possible to see the difference the dimming tech makes by doing this....

yeah reflections were bothering me but it wont matter in my apartment. 3 last pics .

ill go back to time warner center tomorrow and will take more and better pics . 81 series will rock the flat panel market but most people wont care about numbers and specs (except price). :( i have been waiting for a tv like this for years!! the next ill buy is going to be an oled tv.

ill go back to time warner center tomorrow and will take more and better pics . 81 series will rock the flat panel market but most people wont care about numbers and specs (except price). :( i have been waiting for a tv like this for years!! the next ill buy is going to be an oled tv.

Did the colors "pop" to you? The pics look fine in detail but the colors seem kind of bland to me. Maybe it is the camera?

pop? no colors were totally natural not over saturated like sony or .......!

I've been monitoring the price of the Sammy 4665F on Amazon. With the first 81 series starting to trickle out, I was expecting the price of the 65 to drop. Well, the price just JUMPED by $200!! What is going on? As good as the 81 looks, I'm pretty set on getting the 65. I'm just waiting for the price to drop a bit.

pop? no colors were totally natural not over saturated like sony or .......!

Good to hear. Thanks

i think this pic represents the sammy best. pearly white next to black.

yeah reflections were bothering me but it wont matter in my apartment. 3 last pics .

How bright was the viewing room? Are those the reflection of big windows I'm seeing in the background?

Brackhar, when you have a chance (probably during the night), could you please compare the black levels in a pitch dark environment between the set displaying a black frame and then the set with the power off? Also, what about that LED Motion Plus demo, have you played it? Finally, if you manage to connect the set to the computer, could you please go here (http://www.walvisions.com/PattPages/walvisions__graysteps_lowest_64_pattern.htm) and check if you can discern all the shades? Obviously, it goes without saying that any pictures would be fantastic to see. Congrats on your purchase.

the room was bright there were demo sets all around the floor and lots of glass furniture and neon lights.

in reading the CNET article it seems to indicate Samsung has a 120 hz version with LED BL coming out soon

So, these 81s don't have 120hz?

Brackhar, when you have chance (probably during the night), could you please compare the black levels in a pitch black environment between the set displaying a black frame and then the set with the power off? Also, what about that LED Motion Plus demo, have you played it? Finally, if you manage to connect the set to the computer, could you please go here (http://www.walvisions.com/PattPages/walvisions__graysteps_lowest_64_pattern.htm) and check if you can discern all the shades? Obviously, it goes without saying that any pictures would be fantastic to see. Congrats on your purchase.

Sure, I'll be happy to do that later tonight. I don't see a MotionPlus demo anywhere in the menus, though.

Sure, I'll be happy to do that later tonight. I don't see a MotionPlus demo anywhere in the menus, though.I think you might find it under Menu->Picture->Feature Demo->On
The default is probably switched to "Off" as LED SmartLighting and LED Motion Plus features would be disabled with the "Feature Demo" switched to "On". It might be a single demo showing both features.

Darn, no luck at all at Best Buys around my area. Crazy. Crazy. Most are clueless and while they did find the TV, none are in stock, and none are registering at the DC. Anyone from So Cal have better luck?

Let's seem some 360/PS3 pics! Please!?!?!

So, these 81s don't have 120hz?They have 8ms pixel response times. That's all that counts in the context of LED backlight scanning.

I think you might find it under Menu->Picture->Feature Demo->On
The default is probably switched to "Off" as LED SmartLighting and LED Motion Plus features would be disabled with the "Feature Demo" switched to "On". It might be a single demo showing both features.

That only triggers the SmartLighting demo. There's no mention of Motion Plus in the menus from what I can see.

That only triggers the SmartLighting demo. There's no mention of Motion Plus in the menus from what I can see.I saw it mentioned on page 30 in the manual.

Arrghh, Tombaker, I feel for you!!! It rots they didn't come out with the matte screen

Regarding the clouding however, I must respectfully disagree. The screen reflection, while annoying, was done on purpose by Samsung. It is not a defect, and the fact that it can be easily mitigated by some albeit "pain in the neck" lighting control by the homeowner renders it a non issue for most. The clouding IS a true factory defect, and something that the owner can not control. If it's there, it's there. So sorry, try another panel. After two or three returns, I'd be off Sony for life. I hate spending that kind of money for defective gear, it's not moral that they let those things off the line IMO.

Now I do agree with you that a reflection is WAY more annoying, and would be visible in lots more scenes, whereas the clouding rears it's ugly head primarily in dark screens.

I for one am gonna take a couple looks, then probably get the 5281f. I've looked at some friends plasmas, with their glossy screens, and for the little bit of daytime tv I watch, well it's what I'm used to, no different than the 27" RCA we have now. I just hope up here in Vancouver the BB's and Futureshops get em in soon!!

Yes I agree that clouding is a defect in the hardware....but what I am saying is room reflection is a defect in overall design and implementation.

Here is a picture that the taker says is in a dark room....you can see in that the samsung emblem at the bottom is not illuminated. You can the pillars are not illuminated in the background. HOWEVER you can see massive relfections inside of the scene.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87883&d=1187980224

If I were watching a movie I would immediately be taken out of the movie and think WTF why am I getting reflections....some sitting next to me would not care....I would.

The end result is that the TV puts out an image with gross defects. Sure you can tweak and adjust a perfect environment to eliminate them....and for many 81 owners they will have a designer do that for them....create a room with specific lighting to avoid reflection. Congrats to them....that is a great solution and possible the best image you can get.

But I am looking at the table top models. And the reflections would be distracting way way way more than a cloud monster XBR2. In the end the overall design is defective or maybe better said....the overall design is prone to gross reflection that cause significant errors in the perceived image. The only measure that counts is the human eye, and the 81 is going to show lots of errors.

I am looking at the LCD as a System of Display....I am not talking about a surface level measurment by a sensor

This image is defective to my eyes...and eyes are all that count.....look at the big blue blocks...in a dark room.....horrid....simply IMHO horrid.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87883&d=1187980224

Sure, I'll be happy to do that later tonight. I don't see a MotionPlus demo anywhere in the menus, though.

Setting the Feature Demo
Feature Demo allows you to compare the enhanced screen quality of the “LED SmartLighting” and “LED Motion Plus” features with the original picture.
1. Press the MENU button to display the menu.
Press the ENTER button to select “Picture”.
2. Press the ▲ or ▼ button to select "Feature Demo", then press the ENTER
button.
3. Press the ▲ or ▼ button to select “Off” or “On” then press the ENTER button.
Press the ENTER button.
The Demo screen for the "LED SmartLighting" and "LED Motion Plus" is displayed. The right figure shows the screen before the LED Feature is applied. The left figure shows the screen after the LED Feature is applied.Move Enter Return
▲More
LED SmartLighting : On ►
LED Motion Plus : Off ►
Feature Demo : Off ►
Reset : OK ►
Picture

This image is defective to my eyes...and eyes are all that count.....look at the big blue blocks...in a dark room.....horrid....simply IMHO horrid.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87883&d=1187980224

Have you seen the image with your eyes? Looking at a picture is not the same as looking at the TV. Yes glossy panels have glare. we all know that. We also know that looking at a picture of the TV is not what the TV looks like. Pictures add artifacts, take away contrast, take away detail, alter pretty much every aspect of the picture, and then are viewed on monitors that are not the 81 series. I wonder why the pictures don't look all that hot? So lets all please stop with the glossy screen discussions, wait until we have an 81 in our respective local areas, go see it then, judge it, and purchase it if we may. Until then I am tired of having to scroll through 3 pages a day of:
i dont like gloss
i like gloss
is the 81 glossy?
is there an 81 matte?
i like gloss
i dont like glossy
you are stupid for liking gloss because it is reflective in my living room
my opinion is better than yours
i dont like gloss
is the 81 glossy?
I dont like glossy

One more thing while I am going, I think it should be a rule the the first AVS Forum user to get any TV when it comes out has to meet the following requirements:
- Must have lots of money so they can afford the very best TV, along with SD and HD programming, a Wii, PS3, Xbox 360, 480i DVD plater, 480p DVD player and upconverting DVD player. Must also have every type of cable available for each.
- Must not work, so when TV arrives they can devote 24 hours a day to testing it
- Must not sleep for same reason.
- Must be a professional calibrator
- Must be a professional photographer with all kinds of lenses and filters.
- Must have computer set up right beside TV (but pointed the other way so the glossy screen doesn't reflect off TV) so have real-time updates.
- Must have patience so they can answer whether or not the screen is glossy dozens of times.
- Must be good friends with God so they can control whether it is daytime or night time depending on the particular request they are getting.

Is this too much to ask?

Thank you.

ps, no disrespect meant towards the 2 dudes who have the TV, keep up the good work on keeping us informed.

Could you please stop complaining about gloss? There will be matte led lcds next year.

Could you please stop complaining about gloss? There will be matte led lcds next year.

I appreciate your efforts, but I don't think the last part of the comment is going to help curb gloss/matte discussions....

For those people who are counting on the 81 series to be the panel that fits most of their needs, then they have every right to inquire about how reflective it is, and how that might impair their viewing enjoyment. It is an expensive product, and people who do not care for how plasmas look during the daytime, have every right to inquire if the 81 glass has similar viewing drawbacks.

People will want to know how it performs in all conditions between very bright and totally dark settings. That is just seeking valid information on a brand new product, that is being introduced now, and not next year.

I've been monitoring the price of the Sammy 4665F on Amazon. With the first 81 series starting to trickle out, I was expecting the price of the 65 to drop. Well, the price just JUMPED by $200!! What is going on? As good as the 81 looks, I'm pretty set on getting the 65. I'm just waiting for the price to drop a bit.

Price increases are because of one reason: Football season is about to start.

Same thing will happen in the two weeks leading up to Super Bowl.

I just came from the samsung experience at columbus circle in nyc, they had the 57in 81 series on display. I thought it looked good, no WOW, but I didnt like the disc they were playing. Not a big fan of planet earth, I wanted him to put something better in like x-men but had no luck. The sales person said the tv was 60hz. May try again over the weekend to have another disc put in, planet earth didnt bring out the tv's true magic in my opinion.

didilloo:
I would love to see the manual for the 81 but I can't figure out how to download it from the link you sent. Maybe you could attach it as a file?

Right click on the link, and then click on "Open in New Window" from the drop down box.

Nope. :)



Comparison is pretty darn good. The picture quality appears better than the TH-42PZ700U that my father picked up two months ago. I can't compare to the Kuro, as I've not seen it. Thus far the only thing that I've not seen perform well was when I flipped to Avatar: The Last Air Bender. There was a good amount of artifacting around the sharp lines, but I don't know if it's the TV, the Cable Box, the Signal, or just normal to expect with that type of image on a HD tv. Right now I've connected my HD cable box to my tv via the HDMI port.

I was eyeing the 700u due to my glare issues i had with LCD's. Did you notice that the 81f still glared quite a bit in the dark when brighter stuff was shown, in comparison to the more subdued 700u (Which i've heard due to 1080p is a little less bright than its siblings, but then again you probably can get similar brightness levels, since no one uses the max anyway).

in reading the CNET article it seems to indicate Samsung has a 120 hz version with LED BL coming out soon

But i thought that woudl be pointless or undoable? what article states this?

Yes I agree that clouding is a defect in the hardware....but what I am saying is room reflection is a defect in overall design and implementation.

Here is a picture that the taker says is in a dark room....you can see in that the samsung emblem at the bottom is not illuminated. You can the pillars are not illuminated in the background. HOWEVER you can see massive relfections inside of the scene.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87883&d=1187980224

If I were watching a movie I would immediately be taken out of the movie and think WTF why am I getting reflections....some sitting next to me would not care....I would.

The end result is that the TV puts out an image with gross defects. Sure you can tweak and adjust a perfect environment to eliminate them....and for many 81 owners they will have a designer do that for them....create a room with specific lighting to avoid reflection. Congrats to them....that is a great solution and possible the best image you can get.

But I am looking at the table top models. And the reflections would be distracting way way way more than a cloud monster XBR2. In the end the overall design is defective or maybe better said....the overall design is prone to gross reflection that cause significant errors in the perceived image. The only measure that counts is the human eye, and the 81 is going to show lots of errors.

I am looking at the LCD as a System of Display....I am not talking about a surface level measurment by a sensor

This image is defective to my eyes...and eyes are all that count.....look at the big blue blocks...in a dark room.....horrid....simply IMHO horrid.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87883&d=1187980224

So, what did you do before the matte LCD's became big a short time ago? Were you simply in hell all those years with tube tv's???

pop? no colors were totally natural not over saturated like sony or .......!

ah, go ahead and say it:D

Anyway, the picture is supposed to look like real life and not pop. Pop equals fake and artificial.

ah, go ahead and say it:D

Anyway, the picture is supposed to look like real life and not pop. Pop equals fake and artificial.

Good displays can balance the fine line between "real life" and dynamic pop. As long as color points and specs are right on and its calibrated, you can saturate the image and keep it real. Lifeless pictures doesn't mean 'real life'. Unless you got really bad eyes.

I am hoping these Samsungs can give me real yet very poppy pictures. I think it'll be fine... hopefully.

I hope this is not out of place in this forum and I incur someone's wrath. I went to hhgregg yesterday as I noticed in their paper insert that they had the Samsung 71 series. They had just put it out. I kept asking them to put the 71 next to the XBR4. The 71 was about 6 feet in front of the XBR...so you had to look left to see the 71 on the floor and right to see the XBR4 on the wall. Both me and the sales person both thought the XBR looked better (sharper) than the 71. No question the 71 was a little darker but I didn't think it was as sharp as the Sony. A little let down as I WANTED the 71 to WOW me. Not so. I just returned a 46W3000 Sony that looked very good on HD content just to await the 81 series. I have read this forum til I'm dizzy wanting to get the very BEST tv. I sure hope the 4681 I want is the real deal. Unfortunately the thriving metropolis of Montgomery,AL doesn't have any 81's. Just thought I'd post my opinion. I know it involves 71 but is 81 related also.

P.S. Also saw the Sammy 4665 next to the XBR4 and while I thought the XBR4 had a slight edge, I thought the 4665 rivaled the 71 series.

I just came from the samsung experience at columbus circle in nyc, they had the 57in 81 series on display. I thought it looked good, no WOW, but I didnt like the disc they were playing. Not a big fan of planet earth, I wanted him to put something better in like x-men but had no luck. The sales person said the tv was 60hz. May try again over the weekend to have another disc put in, planet earth didnt bring out the tv's true magic in my opinion.

That doesn't sound like you were too impressed with the 81 series. Was it that you just couldn't stand to watch planet earth... (I have only seen the broadcast on a standard def tv) or that the quality of the planet earth discs is not very good? Any other impressions of the set and it's abilities even with programming that you were not impressed with?

Thanks

I hope this is not out of place in this forum and I incur someone's wrath. I went to hhgregg yesterday as I noticed in their paper insert that they had the Samsung 71 series. They had just put it out. I kept asking them to put the 71 next to the XBR4. The 71 was about 6 feet in front of the XBR...so you had to look left to see the 71 on the floor and right to see the XBR4 on the wall. Both me and the sales person both thought the XBR looked better (sharper) than the 71. No question the 71 was a little darker but I didn't think it was as sharp as the Sony. A little let down as I WANTED the 71 to WOW me. Not so. I just returned a 46W3000 Sony that looked very good on HD content just to await the 81 series. I have read this forum til I'm dizzy wanting to get the very BEST tv. I sure hope the 4681 I want is the real deal. Unfortunately the thriving metropolis of Montgomery,AL doesn't have any 81's. Just thought I'd post my opinion. I know it involves 71 but is 81 related also.

P.S. Also saw the Sammy 4661 next to the XBR4 and while I thought the XBR4 had a slight edge, I thought the 4665 rivaled the 71 series.

I saw a 71 right next to an XBR4 and had the same experience, that the XBR was "sharper" until I realized that the 71 was in some form of a zoom vs. the XBR. Once I got the 71 to match the image size of the XBR the "sharpness" was the same... in my opinioin they were very comparable in image quality. I too am hoping the the 81 is much more impressive!

I just came from the samsung experience at columbus circle in nyc, they had the 57in 81 series on display. I thought it looked good, no WOW, but I didnt like the disc they were playing. Not a big fan of planet earth ... planet earth didnt bring out the tv's true magic in my opinion.Surprised to hear that, thought this would be ideal to show off the 81???? In fact I would think Planet Earth would be a good test or challenge for the 81 ...

Surprised to hear that, thought this would be ideal to show off the 81???? In fact I would think Planet Earth would be a good test or challenge for the 81 ...

Natural images don't have that easy WOW effect for untrained eye. Starfields, explosions, super bright images, oversaturated colors, dynamic + + + settings will give that easy WOW effect.

The SamPO spin zone at work. Deny what the eyewitnesses report seeing, and tell them to stop mentioning any reflections and glare that they observe. Who are you going to believe, SamPO, or your own lying eyes!.;)

Have you seen the image with your eyes? Looking at a picture is not the same as looking at the TV. Yes glossy panels have glare. we all know that. We also know that looking at a picture of the TV is not what the TV looks like.

Yes I have looked at the 71 series. The 81 I think will have the same panel....but lets assume not. I would then only be blacker...which would only make it more reflective.

I know what glossy black look like. The 81 has a very reflective black screen which unless you have perfect lighting will add image defects into your viewing experience.

My point is the image defects in the observers eyes caused by a glossy screen under the majority of common lighting situations, will exceed the defects seen by clouding.

Clouding is internal to the screen and extra light projected into the viewing image is exterior....but the view to the TV will see the defects. In the case of the 71/81 the reflections are so great into the viewing experience, it makes the TV unwatchable....considering the >3000 price.

The good news for buyers is if you design a viewing room around the TV you can avoid the problem. But for a very large number of potential owner this is not a good option.

I am a perfectionist on this stuff...went to a movie recently and the lighted exit signs were in right next to the edge of the screen....it bugged me.

Seeing yourself looking at you whilst watching your Samsung because it reflects you on a dark screen....well that is the kind of image that ruins the viewing experience and the suspension of disbief that a good movie needs.
A TV should not be a mirror of your living room.....the 81 series are mirrors

I hope this is not out of place in this forum and I incur someone's wrath. I went to hhgregg yesterday as I noticed in their paper insert that they had the Samsung 71 series. They had just put it out. I kept asking them to put the 71 next to the XBR4. The 71 was about 6 feet in front of the XBR...so you had to look left to see the 71 on the floor and right to see the XBR4 on the wall. Both me and the sales person both thought the XBR looked better (sharper) than the 71. No question the 71 was a little darker but I didn't think it was as sharp as the Sony. A little let down as I WANTED the 71 to WOW me. Not so. I just returned a 46W3000 Sony that looked very good on HD content just to await the 81 series. I have read this forum til I'm dizzy wanting to get the very BEST tv. I sure hope the 4681 I want is the real deal. Unfortunately the thriving metropolis of Montgomery,AL doesn't have any 81's. Just thought I'd post my opinion. I know it involves 71 but is 81 related also.

P.S. Also saw the Sammy 4665 next to the XBR4 and while I thought the XBR4 had a slight edge, I thought the 4665 rivaled the 71 series.

I was in a CC that had a 46" 71 and XBR4 right next to each other, and the salesperson there thought the 71 looked better... to each his own. I personally thought they looked about the same, although I did think the glossy screen added some "pop" to certain content compared to the XBR4. They were both most likely in showroom mode, so who knows how they would compare if they were properly calibrated, and I don't really care because I'm banking on the 81 Series.

The glossy screen may be an issue for some, but I've ruled out the XBR4 because, as far as I'm concerned, that glass frame was oudated a week after Sony introduced it in the XBR2/3 series last year, and there is no way I'd be able to tolerate it for month, let alone another 5+ years.

On another subject, I've just spent about an hour catching up on the last several pages of comments posted since yesterday. I was hoping that because there were a significant number of additional comments that there was some worthwhile information on availablity and/or quality of the 81 Series sets from owners.

However, as usual, most of the information didn't have anything to do with availablity or quality; instead it had to do with people like "tombaker" continuing to whine about the glossy screen and "greenland" questioning specs that were obviously incorrect, and preying on the paranoia of people that don't know any better.

I have done my best to ignore and not get involved in the pointless and inane comments about matte vs gloss and the disinformation discussions associated with specs, but I've got to ask the question... are you people who constantly complain about the glossy screen really too stupid to understand that you can whine, bitch and moan all you want, and it's not going to change anything, and for those of you that damn well know the actual specs, are you just trying to bait those that know better into a completely ridiculous argument?

Save everybody involved in this forum time and aggravation, and get a life or hobby that doesn't involve expressig pointless observations or ridiculous conjecture. Preciate it... and you can bait me all you want, but I will not waste my time responding.

So, what did you do before the matte LCD's became big a short time ago? Were you simply in hell all those years with tube tv's???
You obviously have not seen the reflective properties of the 65 and 71 and 81 series.....a standard CRT would be about 15% as reflective.
Again are going to be buying the very large 81 series for a home theater with lighting that will not make the problem worse heck the glossy give one great picture.
The problem is the choice of gloss in more situations than not….will add image noise into the picture….and this reflective image noise is more noticeable than any other type of defect with the possible exception of Blur for a sports fan.

I just came from the samsung experience at columbus circle in nyc, they had the 57in 81 series on display. I thought it looked good, no WOW, but I didnt like the disc they were playing. Not a big fan of planet earth, I wanted him to put something better in like x-men but had no luck. The sales person said the tv was 60hz. May try again over the weekend to have another disc put in, planet earth didnt bring out the tv's true magic in my opinion.

Not that I don't believe you, but are you sure it was an 81 series on display? I was there on Saturday and they had no 81 series sets on display. They had one that used LED technology, that was in the back left side of the store, but it wasn't an 81 series. It was a prototype display and wasn't using all of the same technology as the 81 series. The reason I'm inclined to believe you is the LED prototype they had DID have a matte display. In my opinion, like all other matte displays, it wasn't as vibrant as it could be.

By the way, for whatever it's worth, the guy at the Samsung Experience Store told me that the rumor is that Samsung will release an 83 series display that will be the same technology as the 81 series, only with a matte display. He didn't say when it would happen. "Underscore" says next year. Hopefully it happens earlier.

On a side note, will "__________" stop being a pain in the _ _ _ and change his user name to something else that make for an easier reference? Assessing his personality based solely on the nature of his posts, I'm sure he enjoys the extra effort is takes for us to refer to him (i.e. _____, Sampo, underscore, etc). I'm sure he's giggling right now.

So, these 81s don't have 120hz?

Ok, now I'm confused. I thought the 81 series was 120 Hz. Check out this article:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6460720.html

"Like the 71 series, the 81 series models include 1080p resolution and a 120Hz frame rate using Samsung's Auto Motion PlusLED technology. The Auto Motion Plus system is implemented "a little bit differently" than in the 71 series models, employing the LED quadrant scanning system, said Ali Atash, Samsung LCD senior marketing manager."

Seems pretty reliable to me...

Seeing yourself looking at you whilst watching your Samsung because it reflects you on a dark screen....well that is the kind of image that ruins the viewing experience and the suspension of disbief that a good movie needs.
A TV should not be a mirror of your living room.....the 81 series are mirrors

I see a marketing opportunity. They can sell it as: The flat panel TV preferred by 9 out of 10 Narcissists!.:D

Sorry if this has been asked and answered in the previous 147 pages:

Does the 71 and 81 series support 1 to 1 pixel mapping?

I was in a CC that had a 46" 71 and XBR4 right next to each other, and the salesperson there thought the 71 looked better... to each his own. I personally thought they looked about the same, although I did think the glossy screen added some "pop" to certain content compared to the XBR4. They were both most likely in showroom mode, so who knows how they would compare if they were properly calibrated, and I don't really care because I'm banking on the 81 Series.

The glossy screen may be an issue for some, but I've ruled out the XBR4 because, as far as I'm concerned, that glass frame was oudated a week after Sony introduced it in the XBR2/3 series last year, and there is no way I'd be able to tolerate it for month, let alone another 5+ years.

On another subject, I've just spent about an hour catching up on the last several pages of comments posted since yesterday. I was hoping that because there were a significant number of additional comments that there was some worthwhile information on availablity and/or quality of the 81 Series sets from owners.

However, as usual, most of the information didn't have anything to do with availablity or quality; instead it had to do with people like "tombaker" continuing to whine about the glossy screen and "greenland" questioning specs that were obviously incorrect, and preying on the paranoia of people that don't know any better.

I have done my best to ignore and not get involved in the pointless and inane comments about matte vs gloss and the disinformation discussions associated with specs, but I've got to ask the question... are you people who constantly complain about the glossy screen really too stupid to understand that you can whine, bitch and moan all you want, and it's not going to change anything, and for those of you that damn well know the actual specs, are you just trying to bait those that know better into a completely ridiculous argument?

Save everybody involved in this forum time and aggravation, and get a life or hobby that doesn't involve expressig pointless observations or ridiculous conjecture. Preciate it... and you can bait me all you want, but I will not waste my time responding.

and whats your point.....that you don't want to participate in a forum talking about AV stuff? Great....but why bother to tell us....why not just run along. Try speaking for yourself next time, as clearly you don't speak for anyone besides yourself and you are certainly not a representive of readers of this thread, your self election does not count. Anyone who puts out such dribble, then says they can not defend it and will not defend it, basically knows they are shoveling BS.

Reflections into the viewing image are a matter of quality.... the image is what you see. A good Canon SLR camera lense will have in a built in glare shield, not because the optics are creating a defect but because the environment ils likely too. Samsung has put out a series of TV that effects the quality of the image by its reflections. You choose to either not understand that or not care, but somehow I think its more of an important issue that you give it credit, we can debate it....its debateable....oh wait you just want to read things you agree with....never mind.

mrjgkelly....I am glad you have decided not to post again, it your choice, but heck, how will I live without the brilliant insight you added.
1. You are irrated.....yes I care! we all care.
2. You want to share if you think the XBR case if fashionable....gosh
3. You like to read posts and somehow haved not figured out how to either look as 60 messages at a time ( you can do that) or actually skip a post.

taking your toy and going home? awwww too bad
mrjgkelly buh-bye

I was in a CC that had a 46" 71 and XBR4 right next to each other, and the salesperson there thought the 71 looked better... to each his own. I personally thought they looked about the same, although I did think the glossy screen added some "pop" to certain content compared to the XBR4. They were both most likely in showroom mode, so who knows how they would compare if they were properly calibrated, and I don't really care because I'm banking on the 81 Series.

The glossy screen may be an issue for some, but I've ruled out the XBR4 because, as far as I'm concerned, that glass frame was oudated a week after Sony introduced it in the XBR2/3 series last year, and there is no way I'd be able to tolerate it for month, let alone another 5+ years.

On another subject, I've just spent about an hour catching up on the last several pages of comments posted since yesterday. I was hoping that because there were a significant number of additional comments that there was some worthwhile information on availablity and/or quality of the 81 Series sets from owners.

However, as usual, most of the information didn't have anything to do with availablity or quality; instead it had to do with people like "tombaker" continuing to whine about the glossy screen and "greenland" questioning specs that were obviously incorrect, and preying on the paranoia of people that don't know any better.

I have done my best to ignore and not get involved in the pointless and inane comments about matte vs gloss and the disinformation discussions associated with specs, but I've got to ask the question... are you people who constantly complain about the glossy screen really too stupid to understand that you can whine, bitch and moan all you want, and it's not going to change anything, and for those of you that damn well know the actual specs, are you just trying to bait those that know better into a completely ridiculous argument?

Save everybody involved in this forum time and aggravation, and get a life or hobby that doesn't involve expressig pointless observations or ridiculous conjecture. Preciate it... and you can bait me all you want, but I will not waste my time responding.

Hey, I'm not nearly as informed as some on here. But I don't believe the 71 was zoomed. I wasn't meaning to down the 71 ...it had super contrast...almost too dark for my liking. I have been shopping and reading this forum and played the dickins trying to make a decision. Absent the 120 Motion blur feature which I've not seen on anything other than the Toshiba LX177, here are my impressions so far:

Sammy 65 series is excellent as is the Sony XBR4.However, I too am not wild about the glass bezel thing myself. Not wild about it but could live with it if I had to. Just from what I saw at hhgregg, the Sammy 71 was a good looking set but no WOW factor. Unfortunately, hhgregg insists on displaying an off air regular signal on all their sets. I told them i would love to see something sports related on the XBR4 where I could judge the 120 Motion feature. I've only seen a demo tape on the Toshiba LX177 involving the 120 Motion feature. It looked very good but the picture on the LX 177 was not nearly as sharp as the other front running sets.

I am really banking on the Sammy 81 being my WOW set. I REALLY want this set badly if it is head and shoulders above the others...price be damned. I have seen the LED on the projection set and was not at all impressed but I hold out great hope for the 81. In closing, I did notice the Sammy 65 series was right next to the XBR4 and you could clearly see the row of lights in the glossy picture screen of the Sammy 65 while on the XBR4, while the lights could be seen, they were very dull and about 1/4 as noticeable. Doesn't matter one way or the other to me because I have a dark room for viewing.
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. This is only my opinion based on what I saw.

I see a marketing opportunity. They can sell it as: The flat panel TV preferred by 9 out of 10 Narcissists!.:D

LOL hahahaa.....nice connection.

Hopefully Samsung reps are reading here....and they can see they are excluding a market by their design choices. If it becomes clear they are excluding potential buyers like myself....they can change the product mix. Any good marketing team will closely follow early adopters...which is what this forum and thread represents.

I see a marketing opportunity. They can sell it as: The flat panel TV preferred by 9 out of 10 Narcissists!.:D

I figured it'd be a better shaving mirror for me in a fully lit room. :) My mirror is pretty old... great PQ at night is a side feature. ;)

LOL hahahaa.....nice connection.

Hopefully Samsung reps are reading here....and they can see they are excluding a market by their design choices. If it becomes clear they are excluding potential buyers like myself....they can change the product mix. Any good marketing team will closely follow early adopters...which is what this forum and thread represents.

The amazing thing is: the one thing that the LCDemons used to beat the Plasmaniacs over the head with was the fact that Plasma was terrible to watch under regular daylight condition because of glare and reflections. Now that this panel may have some of the same issues, many of the self same LCDemons are going; let us not mention that. Let us just pretend that it does not exist.;)

The amazing thing is: the one thing that the LCDemons used to beat the Plasmaniacs over the head with was the fact that Plasma was terrible to watch under regular daylight condition because of glare and reflections. Now that this panel may have some of the same issues, many of the self same LCDemons are going; let us not mention that. Let us just pretend that it does not exist.;)

Because some of us stay silent having not reviewed the panel in person doesn't mean we're withholding criticism or find it acceptable personally. I go out of my way to point out the disadvanatges of plasma primarily in the LCD threads with the hope new members may consider those factors instead of following the fan base and herd mentality. I'm not in denial of the quality of many great plasma's in the right viewing conditions especially the Kuro or this 81/71 series but the reality is if one's environment doesn't suit it then it can become a disatisfactory viewing experience and financial loss.

If someone is transitioning from a CRT/PDP to this 81 then it may not be a concern. I also feel Samsung could have gone both ways but instead they seem to be handing that territory over to Sony.

Not a fan of the reflective panel and I hate it even on the laptops I've purchased for my network. However, having said that I have no intent on beating that horse to death when the Owners threads gets going - that's not the place for it - the owners should know what they've purchased and to have members coming in 20 times and tainting the threads with bashing the same points doesn't generate anything productive for the owners.

Speculation threads sure but the owners thread should not become the dumping ground for non-owners to crap on the owners sharing experiences of their panel or prospective owners. JMO as it taints the hell out of an owners thread. It's pretty bold on their part, though I'd also prefer a matte panel - they will now control the reflective LCD market (whatever that may be) and pull some PDP's buyers along the way.

Reflections aside - hopefully these can survive the honeymoon unscathed - not many panels do.:)

I figured it'd be a better shaving mirror for me in a fully lit room. :) My mirror is pretty old... great PQ at night is a side feature. ;)
No you'll still use your plasma for this because plasmas still are better at reflection than this TV.

I compared them today and your correct (from another post) the 71 series PQ beats all plasmas with the exception of Pioneer and couldn't compare them because CC doesn't carry them.

I did compare reflections with the gloss to plasma reflections and plasma still holds the crown. And I wonder about that coating some are using. Just dulls it. I love the Sammy 71's but I believe like some here I want the matte like I have now. Thats the big advantage that LCD's have. And it was noted today that the LED's LCD's will have matte screens next year.

And I noticed today that viewing angles differ from manufacture to another.

Because some of us stay silent having not reviewed the panel in person doesn't mean we're withholding criticism or find it acceptable personally. I go out of my way to point out the disadvanatges of plasma primarily in the LCD threads with the hope new members may consider those factors instead of following the fan base and herd mentality. I'm not in denial of the quality of many great plasma's in the right viewing conditions especially the Kuro or this 81/71 series but the reality is if one's environment doesn't suit it then it can become a disatisfactory viewing experience and financial loss.

If someone is transitioning from a CRT/PDP to this 81 then it may not be a concern. I also feel Samsung could have gone both ways but instead they seem to be handing that territory over to Sony.

Not a fan of the reflective panel and I hate it even on the laptops I've purchased for my network. However, having said that I have no intent on beating that horse to death when the Owners threads gets going - that's not the place for it - the owners should know what they've purchased and to have members coming in 20 times and tainting the threads with bashing the same points doesn't generate anything productive for the owners.

Speculation threads sure but the owners thread should not become the dumping ground for non-owners to crap on the owners sharing experiences of their panel or prospective owners. JMO as it taints the hell out of an owners thread. It's pretty bold on their part, though I'd also prefer a matte panel - they will now control the reflective LCD market (whatever that may be) and pull some PDP's buyers along the way.

Reflections aside - hopefully these can survive the honeymoon unscathed - not many panels do.:)

You can check out Samsungs reflective screens w/o seeing the 81 series. 65 and 71 have the same screen I believe.

No you'll still use your plasma for this because plasmas still are better at reflection than this TV.

I compared them today and your correct (from another post) the 71 series PQ beats all plasmas with the exception of Pioneer and couldn't compare them because CC doesn't carry them.

I did compare reflections with the gloss to plasma reflections and plasma still holds the crown. And I wonder about that coating some are using. Just dulls it. I love the Sammy 71's but I believe like some here I want the matte like I have now. Thats the big advantage that LCD's have. And it was noted today that the LED's LCD's will have matte screens next year.

And I noticed today that viewing angles differ from manufacture to another.

I disagree. The gloss from Samsungs TVs seem way more reflective to me than even my older Pioneer Plasma (which was pretty reflective too). C-net states the same thing in their review of the 65 series. Granted, I am one who doesn't mind a bit of gloss because I have a room where I can control lighting. But I don't agree at all w/ Samsungs glossy screens not being as glare-happy as plasmas, they are just as glareful if not more so. Panasonics 77 series w/ the matte design and Pioneers new anti-glare perform much better in this regard and it will be noticeable to alot of people. Of course matte LCD is still a killer of glare.

I really don't know why any videophile would let daylight be a factor. The best time to critically view is in a darkened situation. Whether your screen is matte or not, light will screw up your image regardless. If you can't control your lighting... then you'll always have to live with second best. Direct light messes up images. PERIOD.

I disagree. The gloss from Samsungs TVs seem way more reflective to me than even my older Pioneer Plasma (which was pretty reflective too). C-net states the same thing in their review of the 65 series. Granted, I am one who doesn't mind a bit of gloss because I have a room where I can control lighting. But I don't agree at all w/ Samsungs glossy screens not being as glare-happy as plasmas, they are just as glareful if not more so. Panasonics 77 series w/ the matte design and Pioneers new anti-glare perform much better in this regard and it will be noticeable to alot of people. Of course matte LCD is still a killer of glare.

I really don't know why any videophile would let daylight be a factor. The best time to critically view is in a darkened situation. Whether your screen is matte or not, light will screw up your image regardless. If you can't find control your lighting... then you'll always have to live with second best. Direct light messes up images. PERIOD.

You need to check this out for yourself. I like Cnet when it comes to testing equipment, but I don't listen to the human element of their reviews.

Go to BB their so well lit you can't help but see all the reflections. Where as CC is more sophisticated with their set-up. The emissive theory doesn't work for me no more. I'm leaving the CRT age for these new techs. Your still stuck in the CRT world.

You can check out Samsungs reflective screens w/o seeing the 81 series. 65 and 71 have the same screen I believe.

And if he can get the store to set them up opposite each other, he can check out the 71 just by looking at it's reflection in the 81. Of course he might have to first chase off all those chicks that will be using them to fix their makeup.;)

You obviously have not seen the reflective properties of the 65 and 71 and 81 series.....a standard CRT would be about 15% as reflective.
Again are going to be buying the very large 81 series for a home theater with lighting that will not make the problem worse heck the glossy give one great picture.
The problem is the choice of gloss in more situations than not….will add image noise into the picture….and this reflective image noise is more noticeable than any other type of defect with the possible exception of Blur for a sports fan.

Obviously? Why is presumptiousness such an easy thing for people to lean on?

I actually have seen the Samsungs (well, not the 81). Sure they are reflective whilst nestled about a bunch of matte screens, but after asking around many say that plasmas and other reflective screens are still less reflective or just as reflective as the old tubes, definetly not "85%" MORE reflective that's for sure.

You need to check this out for yourself. I like Cnet when it comes to testing equipment, but I don't listen to the human element of their reviews.

Go to BB their so well lit you can't help but see all the reflections. Where as CC is more sophisticated with their set-up. The emissive theory doesn't work for me no more. I'm leaving the CRT age for these new techs. Your still stuck in the CRT world.

Best Buy is where I made my comparison... twice now. C-net is just a reference of non bias I use. Other people state the same thing. What's funny is that I am not a big 'glare' guy and I don't bitch about it. I've owned two LCDs, a DLP, and I used to own a plasma. One LCD I am still keeping and yes, matte is nice. It keeps glare away. But if I shine a light on the my Samsung 3251D, it still effects the TV image negatively. Regardless if matte lovers want to hear that or not its the truth. Me? I'd rather take matte for a daylight situation. But at the same time I know people that wouldn't mind glare and they say the reflection of the light vs. the scattering that matte does improves color rendition and contrast in the daytime.

I say, light sucks no matter what TV you got. And no manufacturer has yet figure out a way to not be affected by light. Everybody labels everyone like they got some agenda. "Stuck in the CRT world." Yet I have 3 digital displays running in my house... none of them at the moment are phosphor based.

Yes... I am totally 'stuck in a CRT world'. No sir, I'm stuck in a world of Home Theater PQ.

Because some of us stay silent having not reviewed the panel in person doesn't mean we're withholding criticism or find it acceptable personally.
Whoah! Wait a minute! You're responding to his 'LCDemon' label... do you realize what you're doing?! ;)
(by the way, nice post. It makes complete sense, though I do admit I like the benefits of reflective panels despite their obvious faults.)

Obviously? Why is presumptiousness such an easy thing for people to lean on?

I actually have seen the Samsungs (well, not the 81). Sure they are reflective whilst nestled about a bunch of matte screens, but after asking around many say that plasmas and other reflective screens are still less reflective or just as reflective as the old tubes, definetly not "85%" MORE reflective that's for sure.

So did you like reflective tube sets or not. I find it hard to understand what point you are making. If reflections were not considered a good thing on much smaller tube displays, how does that translate to very large, highly reflective LCD displays are more acceptable!.

So... has anyone else gotten an 81 panel yet?? It seems the 'Black-hole' like blacks sucked in our only owner... never to be seen again. :)

The lamp wanted to inject itself into the plot line
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2752/lnt4665ffromleftcableth7.jpg

are these panels as reflective as the shinny piano black casing...why yes, yes they are.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1043/lnt4671wq3.jpg

want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Whoah! Wait a minute! You're responding to his 'LCDemon' label... do you realize what you're doing?! ;)
(by the way, nice post. It makes complete sense, though I do admit I like the benefits of reflective panels despite their obvious faults.)

Yes he did. Ha Ha. He also admitted that he was one of the LCD town criers who kept warning the LCD village about the looming dangers of Plasma reflections. He never warned the Plasmaniacs about what to beware of from LCDs. He is a true partisan, and proud to acknowledge that he is a loyal LCDemon.:D

so anyone else think that the only difference between the 71 and 81 will be led? Owning the 71 right now and looking at the service and submenus of the 71, I see led referenced all over the place. It seems like the giant leap wpould only be the backlighting. Can the led set still have a mura effect or is that a CCFL thing?

So... has anyone else gotten an 81 panel yet?? It seems the 'Black-hole' like blacks sucked in our only owner... never to be seen again. :)

There was one new one reported in this afternoon. He is going to post some more information soon. Also, you will find two reports from people who saw actual store displays today. One fellow posted around seven pictures. I am just having a bit of fun with the LCDemons versus the Plasmaniacs, until the real owner feedback comes in.:)

so anyone else think that the only difference between the 71 and 81 will be led? Owning the 71 right now and looking at the service and submenus of the 71, I see led referenced all over the place. It seems like the giant leap wpould only be the backlighting. Can the led set still have a mura effect or is that a CCFL thing?

Isn't the 81 suppose to introduce a way to prevent motion blur. If that works as advertised, that would be a significant improvement over the previous generation. I have not seen any owner reports yet on how well it actually works.

..

You would think some manufacturer would provide a snap off shiny bezel that conceals a flat black one. This way they could get all the sales they want off that attention getting shiny look and still give the owner a choice of bezel once the owner's taste matures with the set.

The lamp wanted to inject itself into the plot line
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2752/lnt4665ffromleftcableth7.jpg

are these panels as reflective as the shinny piano black casing...why yes, yes they are.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1043/lnt4671wq3.jpg

want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Made your point about a dozen times, why dont you go hang out at the Sony thread. You've already stated your intention to not buy this set, IMHO you have nothing more to offer, so why keep harping? It is definately getting to be a bore. Much more irritating than a little glare in fact.

OH WAIT!!! dOH!! i CAN JUST PUT YOU ON iGNORE!!!!

The lamp wanted to inject itself into the plot line
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2752/lnt4665ffromleftcableth7.jpg

are these panels as reflective as the shinny piano black casing...why yes, yes they are.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1043/lnt4671wq3.jpg

want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Tom,

Were those pictures taken in a home setting at night with just the lamp on?. Is it a 71 series panel. How dim does the room have to be, in order to not see intrusive reflections?.
..

You would think some manufacturer would provide a snap off shiny bezel that conceals a flat black one. This way they could get all the sales they want off that attention getting shiny look and still give the owner a choice of bezel once the owner's taste matures with the set.

That sounds like a good idea, if it could be made to look OK, and not look like some thing was peeling off. They will still need to probably do something about the highly reflective glass.

So did you like reflective tube sets or not. I find it hard to understand what point you are making. If reflections were not considered a good thing on much smaller tube displays, how does that translate to very large, highly reflective LCD displays are more acceptable!.

I dont like it, but if its got what i want and there is no equal then it's no worse than what i had one TV ago and long before, THATS my point.

And even more to the point, as much as i do vaguely recall avoiding having a large window beaming light onto my tv when i watch during the day, i remember it being second nature, i never remember reflections being something people griped about all that much, if anything i barely remember thinking about it even in possible daylight situations where it could have been an issue, i would just take care of it and draw the blinds if i was having trouble seeing what i was watching and didnt stress out about it (i never remember anything but poorly placed day or sunlight being an issue so as long as i had blinds it was never a real problem).

And in case i wasnt clear about it the situations where i did have those issues werent very often to begin with as far as i can recall.

Tom,

Were those pictures taken in a home setting at night with just the lamp on?. Is it a 71 series panel. How dim does the room have to be, in order to not see intrusive reflections?.
..

dont ask the troll. The one with the lamp is the 65 series. The one below is the 71 that i took a picture of a CC to show how reflective it is in the store. They have the worst lighting at cc and if the wanted to sell tv's they need to make a magnolia type viewing experience in thier stores.

So, who's up on the firing line this weekend? Who gets deliveries?

want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Why can't you accept that the 81 series is a home theater display? It's not for kitchens, laundry rooms or sun rooms. It's not what you buy to watch Oprah on while making brownies. Do you go to projector anticipation threads and post endlessly about how you think the manufacturers just dont get it because their projectors don't work well in anything but the darkest room? Do you go to Humvee threads and say the crummy gas mileage is a design flaw? How about visiting a speaker anticipation thread and complaining because their speakers dont sound good in your garage? I mean, it's the nature of the display, they aren't advertising it as a tabletop, bright room display, so why can't you accept it?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1043/lnt4671wq3.jpg

want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Some comments:
1. This shot looks like it's from a showroom floor with bright fluorescent lights. Those kind of lights will cause that affect on any panel.
2. Off-angle shots will provide the most glare. My MATTE LCD shows lots of glare off-angle during the day, especially on dark scenes.
3. It looks like that room is seriously bright!! I gotta hand it to the TV to decently display a dark scene under those conditions.

Anyhow, I think folks have beaten the glare topic to death.

Have you seen the image with your eyes? Looking at a picture is not the same as looking at the TV. Yes glossy panels have glare. we all know that. We also know that looking at a picture of the TV is not what the TV looks like. Pictures add artifacts, take away contrast, take away detail, alter pretty much every aspect of the picture, and then are viewed on monitors that are not the 81 series. I wonder why the pictures don't look all that hot? So lets all please stop with the glossy screen discussions, wait until we have an 81 in our respective local areas, go see it then, judge it, and purchase it if we may. Until then I am tired of having to scroll through 3 pages a day of:
i dont like gloss
i like gloss
is the 81 glossy?
is there an 81 matte?
i like gloss
i dont like glossy
you are stupid for liking gloss because it is reflective in my living room
my opinion is better than yours
i dont like gloss
is the 81 glossy?
I dont like glossy

One more thing while I am going, I think it should be a rule the the first AVS Forum user to get any TV when it comes out has to meet the following requirements:
- Must have lots of money so they can afford the very best TV, along with SD and HD programming, a Wii, PS3, Xbox 360, 480i DVD plater, 480p DVD player and upconverting DVD player. Must also have every type of cable available for each.
- Must not work, so when TV arrives they can devote 24 hours a day to testing it
- Must not sleep for same reason.
- Must be a professional calibrator
- Must be a professional photographer with all kinds of lenses and filters.
- Must have computer set up right beside TV (but pointed the other way so the glossy screen doesn't reflect off TV) so have real-time updates.
- Must have patience so they can answer whether or not the screen is glossy dozens of times.
- Must be good friends with God so they can control whether it is daytime or night time depending on the particular request they are getting.

Is this too much to ask?

Thank you.

Awesome...I vote for making this a sticky.

this thread is getting out of hands with this reflective crap. if you dont like what you see ( with your own eyes, dont buy. ) simple as that.

I think samsung made some decent advancements. I am sure it will only get better.and yes do give people the option for flat / glossy. I am sure there will be other manufacturers working on similar tech.

Made your point about a dozen times, why dont you go hang out at the Sony thread.

What makes you think that 81 series is stopping with first set of TVs. I personally think, if there is enough demand and support for Matte they will put them out, in this 81 series. The 81Ms would be simple enough.

And yes I agree with Westa comments, this is not an owners thread, but I am sure when release of the 81 is more than just a 1 or 2 TVs it will be started, and owners will be well aware of the tradeoffs of gloss or not.

Seems there is no reason they can no just use a different panel with all the same guts.......right?

Anyhow, I think folks have beaten the glare topic to death.You think? I don't think this fascinating topic has been exhausted. We need to talk more about it. In fact let's spend another 100 pages on it. After all, this is by far the most important aspect of 81 Series, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Why can't you accept that the 81 series is a home theater display? It's not for kitchens, laundry rooms or sun rooms. It's not what you buy to watch Oprah on while making brownies. Do you go to projector anticipation threads and post endlessly about how you think the manufacturers just dont get it because their projectors don't work well in anything but the darkest room? Do you go to Humvee threads and say the crummy gas mileage is a design flaw? How about visiting a speaker anticipation thread and complaining because their speakers dont sound good in your garage? I mean, it's the nature of the display, they aren't advertising it as a tabletop, bright room display, so why can't you accept it?

Well said. I, myself, often go to forums about products I can't afford or don't want and endlessly harp on the fact that I disagree with some design decision the engineers made. That way I can make other people as miserable as I am without actually having to spend any money.

p.s. How does this 'ignore' function work? I'm feeling a need to exercise that option.

Ill make sure i hit up this samsung showroom in nyc this weekend as well. Ill let my eyes be the judge of this.

Have you seen the image with your eyes? Looking at a picture is not the same as looking at the TV. Yes glossy panels have glare. we all know that. We also know that looking at a picture of the TV is not what the TV looks like. Pictures add artifacts, take away contrast, take away detail, alter pretty much every aspect of the picture, and then are viewed on monitors that are not the 81 series. I wonder why the pictures don't look all that hot? So lets all please stop with the glossy screen discussions, wait until we have an 81 in our respective local areas, go see it then, judge it, and purchase it if we may. Until then I am tired of having to scroll through 3 pages a day of:
i dont like gloss
i like gloss
is the 81 glossy?
is there an 81 matte?
i like gloss
i dont like glossy
you are stupid for liking gloss because it is reflective in my living room
my opinion is better than yours
i dont like gloss
is the 81 glossy?
I dont like glossy

One more thing while I am going, I think it should be a rule the the first AVS Forum user to get any TV when it comes out has to meet the following requirements:
- Must have lots of money so they can afford the very best TV, along with SD and HD programming, a Wii, PS3, Xbox 360, 480i DVD plater, 480p DVD player and upconverting DVD player. Must also have every type of cable available for each.
- Must not work, so when TV arrives they can devote 24 hours a day to testing it
- Must not sleep for same reason.
- Must be a professional calibrator
- Must be a professional photographer with all kinds of lenses and filters.
- Must have computer set up right beside TV (but pointed the other way so the glossy screen doesn't reflect off TV) so have real-time updates.
- Must have patience so they can answer whether or not the screen is glossy dozens of times.
- Must be good friends with God so they can control whether it is daytime or night time depending on the particular request they are getting.

Is this too much to ask?

Thank you.

ps, no disrespect meant towards the 2 dudes who have the TV, keep up the good work on keeping us informed.

Amen!

Why can't you accept that the 81 series is a home theater display? It's not for kitchens, laundry rooms or sun rooms. It's not what you buy to watch Oprah on while making brownies. Do you go to projector anticipation threads and post endlessly about how you think the manufacturers just dont get it because their projectors don't work well in anything but the darkest room? Do you go to Humvee threads and say the crummy gas mileage is a design flaw? How about visiting a speaker anticipation thread and complaining because their speakers dont sound good in your garage? I mean, it's the nature of the display, they aren't advertising it as a tabletop, bright room display, so why can't you accept it?

I am looking at it at the 40 inch table top model....as an all the time TV....not just for dimmed lights movie watching. I believe I am at the center of the market....the Cinema only crowd is a smaller subset IMO

I do think my post are about the topic.....sorry that my anticipation for this TV has changed from when I first began reading. I am not really sure what you are expecting from a thread about the anticipation of TV series. I was hoping the new technology would be my solution....right now its not looking good. And after viewing 71s I am even more concerned. But I won't be done until I get my hands on one.

Maybe if you just ignore me its better for you.....you could just not read my post too...skim ahead or scroll down...you can do it....either way good luck with your personal issues.

Why can't you accept that the 81 series is a home theater display? It's not for kitchens, laundry rooms or sun rooms. It's not what you buy to watch Oprah on while making brownies. Do you go to projector anticipation threads and post endlessly about how you think the manufacturers just dont get it because their projectors don't work well in anything but the darkest room? Do you go to Humvee threads and say the crummy gas mileage is a design flaw? How about visiting a speaker anticipation thread and complaining because their speakers dont sound good in your garage? I mean, it's the nature of the display, they aren't advertising it as a tabletop, bright room display, so why can't you accept it?

That was so necessary and well-said, I think I'll quote it again:

Why can't you accept that the 81 series is a home theater display? It's not for kitchens, laundry rooms or sun rooms. It's not what you buy to watch Oprah on while making brownies. Do you go to projector anticipation threads and post endlessly about how you think the manufacturers just dont get it because their projectors don't work well in anything but the darkest room? Do you go to Humvee threads and say the crummy gas mileage is a design flaw? How about visiting a speaker anticipation thread and complaining because their speakers dont sound good in your garage? I mean, it's the nature of the display, they aren't advertising it as a tabletop, bright room display, so why can't you accept it?

In fact, for people who don't like reading long posts, I'll paraphrase it for you:

We KNOW it is reflective, we KNOW it won't work in uncontrolled lighting situations, and we KNOW that limits the target user base for this TV. We DON'T need pictures to remind us why this TV won't work in uncontrolled lighting situations because we already know that. We DON'T need everyone to repeatedly describe in detail why gloss won't work for them.

If you don't like gloss, the 81 series is not for you, so leave anti-gloss comments out of this topic!!!

/rant

Has anyone compared this set with the samsung 5084 plasma?

Ok guys i got the sku's for all the sizes in the 81 series. The 40" is 8457243, the 46" is 8458509, the 52" is 8457216, and the 57" is 8457234. When you have someone look the item up make sure they are looking it up at a magnolia store or it won't show hope this helps.

That was so necessary and well-said, I think I'll quote it again:



In fact, for people who don't like reading long posts, I'll paraphrase it for you:

We KNOW it is reflective, we KNOW it won't work in uncontrolled lighting situations, and we KNOW that limits the target user base for this TV. We DON'T need pictures to remind us why this TV won't work in uncontrolled lighting situations because we already know that. We DON'T need everyone to repeatedly describe in detail why gloss won't work for them.

If you don't like gloss, the 81 series is not for you, so leave anti-gloss comments out of this topic!!!

/rant

what we really don't need is a dweebish posting like this. Thanks for a summary of the last few postings.....maybe you should just ignore stuff....or do you think we all need to read it again?

How about this....an assignemed for you the self designated hallway monitor.....what should be posted on this thread....and what part of that has not already been posted?

You want reviews? Start and owners thread.

I don't take it on faith that the LED backlighted 81 series is a gloss only TV. Put me on ignore....and don't reply to me in a discussion thread if you don't want a discussion.

Again I am talking about the TV....you want to post your thought about me....get over it.

Some comments:
1. This shot looks like it's from a showroom floor with bright fluorescent lights. Those kind of lights will cause that affect on any panel.
2. Off-angle shots will provide the most glare. My MATTE LCD shows lots of glare off-angle during the day, especially on dark scenes.
3. It looks like that room is seriously bright!! I gotta hand it to the TV to decently display a dark scene under those conditions.

Anyhow, I think folks have beaten the glare topic to death.
Good points....it is why I compared the reflection to the case....I do think its a very very harsh test....but I was surprised to see the bars extending and connecting right through the screen onto the case.
Some hate the gloss cases for its reflectiveness but I can tolerate that.

Agree on the off angle lamp...except that the image is so clear as compared to a muted and diffuse image that would have been with a matte screen.

I have not seen anyone thing the benefits of Gloss make it worth the negatives they carry. I mean in a dark room Matte works better too. Seems the gloss fans are the folks who like Vivid settings outside fo the showroom.

I do think Samsung has the option to make a 61 and 65 type of LED LCD....and its why I have posted it.

I have seen lots of people saying to shut up....but I don't see much of anyone talking about how significantly better gloss is.

IE nobody is saying they would have designed it this way. I still think Samsung can put out a press release about the up and coming 81M....the same tech as the 81 but in Matte.

I really don't know why any videophile would let daylight be a factor. The best time to critically view is in a darkened situation. Whether your screen is matte or not, light will screw up your image regardless. If you can't control your lighting... then you'll always have to live with second best. Direct light messes up images. PERIOD.Mostly agreed, if Tom and some of us that consider glossy finishes extremely distracting to the viewing experience just consider the 81 series to be a dark room videophile TV, then we should be able to admit that under those conditions the clear panel has advantages.

One point of possible divergence is that you do not distinguish quantitatively the affect on perception of ambient sources shining on the two screen types. The reflective screen will mirror image light sources, and those images defocus your eye and distract you. The matte screen scatters and absorbs light, so that concentrated room sources are diffused and frequently not even noticed. So yes light screws up images, but in different ways so that matte has a clear advantage in well lit rooms.

EDIT: Tom - gloss has a better viewing angle than matte in Samsung's offerings, it looks smooth like a plasma, blacks tend to look deep and not muddy, colors do seem more vibrant, and this is from someone who has carried the matte "torch" and received my share of flames. This rumor of an 83 series sounds good, now use the 61 box and put in CableCARD and I'll buy a 57".

This thread would be about 50 pages shorter if people weren't griping about the gloss. Most of us here understand that matte is a better choice if you have a bit of ambient light and that some of us like the gloss because it adds pop to the image. Regardless of your preference, the 81 series is gloss whether you like it or not. Yeah Samsung may release a newer 81 series with matte at a later time to give consumers a choice, but until then the 81 series is matte.

So does this LED technology remove things like flashlighting? I just noticed in the 71 thread someone posting pics of their brand new expensive TV with a bunch of flashlighting. Saw a bunch of it on the Sony TVs (along with clouding) at CC the other day too (the new XBR4s).

Geez...

I go on a road trip to the Philadelphia suburbs to look at this thing in person, I spend three hours there putting that little sonofagun through its paces, and I drive back here to four new pages, 3.5 of which are acrimony. I feel that our decorum is slipping again.

Anyway, on to the report, cheerfully entitled "I Can Tell You Where to Find Your Most Holy Gr-r-r-ail!"...

I tried to take photos of this thing with my dumb little digital camera, but all my pictures suck (I am not a photographer). I was unable to hook it up to a PC over HDMI, sadly (they just wouldn't haul one of their desktop PCs over for it), but I was able to do it over VGA and everything clocked in perfectly there (duh). It's not much consolation, but I was given repeated verbal assurance that it will do 1-to-1 pixel mapping via HDMI (for which the "Just Scan" setting is the best choice, apparently). All the images I brought looked predictably lovely over the laptop I used. I brought several pictures to try to test for black and/or white crushes and saw none whatsoever (my Westinghouse had black crushes like mad).

I brought three movies with me: Star Wars (I refuse to call it "Episode <anything>" because that is hooey), The Empire Strikes Back, and Fellowship of the Ring. Again, I looked for crushed blacks and whites and found literally none. Even in Moria.

I still cannot get over this display. God. Bear with me...

So I monkeyed around with its settings like crazy, and when I first brought up the desktop from the laptop PC, I thought I saw the feared halos off the toolbar at the bottom. Then the rep and I discovered that the local dimming function was not turned on. That taught me a little humility about psyching myself into seeing things that are not there. So we turned it on.

Holy crap.

Holy, holy crap.

Prior to that, I had no idea that I had been looking at a gray screen, but obviously I had. This new one was black, baby. So I monkeyed around with the computer some more and tried to find clouds, flashlights, etc. Nuthin'.

When I played the movies, the color gamut feature, the local dimming, and the motion smoothing feature all went bananas (in a good way). I tried really, really hard to find color crushes, halos, et al, but I simply could not find a single one. At first I thought I did in Star Wars when Vader first walks onto the ship they stormed, but then I paused it, got in close, and took a long hard look. Every single shadow, every single detail, every gradation that I know to be on the disc (I know that movie VERY well--that's why I picked it) was right there in front of me. In other words, there were gradations in the shadows that my own eyes had trouble catching, but that the Samsung faithfully reproduced. It turns out the reason I had trouble seeing some of those details is that the room was bright and yes, there is a glare (criminny, would you guys please relax about that and try some breathing exercises, or something). Is the glare a problem? Not for me, no. My computer room generally is kept dark even in the daytime, so I absolutely do not care. Also, the glare is NOT pronounced. It is enough to hide some details in a bright room, though. Shucky-darn. Guess I'll have to buy some other display with a lower contrast ratio, eh? Not bloody likely.

NO OTHER DISPLAY HAS ANYTHING LIKE THIS!! (I checked a ton of them at the Magnolia.)

The motion smoothing feature does have one expected cost: it dims the display. It also makes the movies, to my eyes, like butter. I mean, the second scene in Empire Strikes Back, where we see the Star Destroyer spitting out probe droids, is always just sooo choppy it totally bums me out. It was perfectly smooth (to my eyes). I could not catch a single hiccup or hesitation in the motion. It wasn't like I was watching footage at all. It was like I was seeing an approaching Star Destroyer.

Long and short of it: I bought one. How could I not??? Seriously--how could I not?

They didn't have any 40"s in stock, though, so I have to wait (get this) until 9/20 for it to arrive (my guess is it won't really be available for pick up until 9/22 or 9/24). I could have walked home with a 46" tonight, yes, but that would have made me dig into my zero-balance credit card and I simply will not do that. Especially not for a TV, man. That's rubbish.

So I got $1280 for my dodgy old Westinghouse (net loss: $1000), plopped down an additional $1900 (net loss: $1900), and in three or four weeks I'll have my new baby hooked up to my rig.

Oh, I should mention one last thing for tonight before I crash and allow myself to forget how much I hate driving. The displays, for anyone in the area, are in two Philadelphia suburbs. Five are in stock right now in Plymouth Meeting, with more due in a week or so, and 40 are due in stock in King of Prussia this Sunday, but delivery is more likely to be Tuesday or Wednesday simply because the trucks don't seem to be delivering there this weekend.

Right. Did it blow my mind? Yes. Yes, it did. I really didn't think this kind of image detail, shadow detail, and color accuracy was possible on an LCD display. It IS possible; it's just very, very expensive. (I still can't believe I just spent $2g.) Are the local dimming, the wide color gamut, and the motion smoothing all that and a bag of chips? Yes. Yes, they are (in my unprofessional opinion). Is it worth going into debt? No consumer product ever is; don't be stupid. If you have the money, is it worth it? Oh, God, yes. Absolutely. Will there be problems with it? Does the Pope where a silly hat and say impolitic things about Islam?

Good night,

David

So does this LED technology remove things like flashlighting? I just noticed in the 71 thread someone posting pics of their brand new expensive TV with a bunch of flashlighting. Saw a bunch of it on the Sony TVs (along with clouding) at CC the other day too (the new XBR4s).

I can't say for sure, but I can tell you that I looked long and hard specifically for flashlights, halos, and banding/pillaring. I found nothing. Nothing at all. Just a pure, clean image that is so deep, I sat six inches away from it and felt like a little kid.

Yours,

David

Awesome news....thanks David!!!

The displays, for anyone in the area, are in two Philadelphia suburbs. Five are in stock right now in Plymouth Meeting, with more due in a week or so, and 40 are due in stock in King of Prussia this Sunday... So we are talking Magnolia PM or KoP? Show us a pic anyway.

David that sounds fantastic! I hope it's everything you have made it out to be. I hope when I finally get the opportunity to see one in person I will have the same experience...

Can't wait!

Thank you for your input.

So we are talking Magnolia PM or KoP? Show us a pic anyway.

Hi Mark,

Indeed we are. Okay, I'll post one or two pictures in a few minutes after I upload them to my computer, but like I said--they totally suck. After that, man, I am going to bed because I'm wiped out.

Yrs,

David

Thanks very much for the informative post and taking the time to test it out, David. Great information!

Finally, some real information after all these pages of drivel. Seriously, some of you need to take the 'beating a dead horse' idiom to heart.

Setting the Feature Demo
Feature Demo allows you to compare the enhanced screen quality of the “LED SmartLighting” and “LED Motion Plus” features with the original picture.
1. Press the MENU button to display the menu.
Press the ENTER button to select “Picture”.
2. Press the ▲ or ▼ button to select "Feature Demo", then press the ENTER
button.
3. Press the ▲ or ▼ button to select “Off” or “On” then press the ENTER button.
Press the ENTER button.
The Demo screen for the "LED SmartLighting" and "LED Motion Plus" is displayed. The right figure shows the screen before the LED Feature is applied. The left figure shows the screen after the LED Feature is applied.Move Enter Return
▲More
LED SmartLighting : On ►
LED Motion Plus : Off ►
Feature Demo : Off ►
Reset : OK ►
Picture

No, it's not there. The page your referring to looks like this:
▲More
LED SmartLighting : On ►
Feature Demo : Off ►
Reset : OK ►

Turning on the feature demo displays a hud showing SmartLighting On and Off, but nothing about Motion Plus.

For those of you worried about the glare I've yet to see a reflection on my screen.

No, it's not there. The page your referring to looks like this:
▲More
LED SmartLighting : On ►
Feature Demo : Off ►
Reset : OK ►

Turning on the feature demo displays a hud showing SmartLighting On and Off, but nothing about Motion Plus.

For those of you worried about the glare I've yet to see a reflection on my screen.

There's a button for detailed settings somewhere. It's in there (at the very end, along with the wide color gamut feature).

Yours,

David

Show us a pic anyway.

Okay...here are my breathtakingly lame pictures. I couldn't turn off the flash...

David

Thanks, David, actually those side speakers don't look too bad.
Glad to hear your excursion was worthwhile, get some sleep :).
I'll probably be up there in a week or so.

Thanks, David, actually those side speakers don't look too bad.
Glad to hear your excursion was worthwhile, get some sleep :).
I'll probably be up there in a week or so.

There are 4 screws in the back that hold the plastic dumbo ears on either side of the speakers, behind those looks like a nice metal mesh that runs up the whole side of the tv for the speakers. I was actually thinking about taking off the plastic and do some before and after pics to see how it would look. Seems like an easy mod too.

Actually I just noticed a difference between my 71 and the 81. My speakers ( the gray part) is flush with my bezel and the plastic pieces are on the outside and stick out from the speakers. On the 81 the plastic is in between the speakers and the bezel. Interesting..

There's a button for detailed settings somewhere. It's in there (at the very end, along with the wide color gamut feature).

Yours,

David

Ok, I found it. Odd that they'd bury it so deep, and that you have to be in movie mode to use it...

Anyway, even when enabling it it's not part of the feature demo. I don't yet have a good idea what effect it has.

Okay...here are my breathtakingly lame pictures. I couldn't turn off the flash...

David
Oh man, you should have waited for a scene with Darth Vader's mask in it
to really show off the shadow details and such. :)

Oh man, you should have waited for a scene with Darth Vader's mask in it
to really show off the shadow details and such. :)

I'm assuming he was using a standard def dvd?

Does the 81 series have a 8 bit or 10 bit panel? Also do we know yet how it handles 1080p/24 (3:2 pull-down or 5:5)?

81 Series: 10-bit processing, 8ms response time, an ATSC / clear QAM tuner, CEC HDMI, USB

Will this TV work well/ok in the day time?

This thread would be about 50 pages shorter if people weren't griping about the gloss. Most of us here understand that matte is a better choice if you have a bit of ambient light and that some of us like the gloss because it adds pop to the image. Regardless of your preference, the 81 series is gloss whether you like it or not. Yeah Samsung may release a newer 81 series with matte at a later time to give consumers a choice, but until then the 81 series is matte.


don't you hate it when you blow the punch line

You summarize with "until then the 81 series is matte"
which of course currently it is not.

Geez...

ISo we turned it on.

Holy crap.

Holy, holy crap.

Prior to that, I had no idea that I had been looking at a gray screen, but obviously I had. This new one was black, baby. So I monkeyed around with the computer some more and tried to find clouds, flashlights, etc. Nuthin'.

David


Any disadvantages to having local dimming on? I'm a bit weary that they left it as an option, because this means that there are drawbacks that would make some customers keep it off.

I go on a road trip to the Philadelphia suburbs to look at this thing in person,

David, where do I even begin. Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. There's really not much more I need to ask you as you've covered pretty much every area of interest in your excellent post. It seems like this set performs exactly as I thought it should based on the knowledge of new LED-based technologies that debut here and are exclusive to 81 Series. Perfect blacks and low-end grayscale, natural colors and CRT-like motion. That should be good enough.

I'm really glad to read the set blew you away, even though you knew very well what to expect. That's a very good sign. From what you and zolanyc have been saying it sounds like we're dealing here with one of those rare situations where the reality might just match the hype.

What also caught my attention in your post was that the default settings for local dimming and LED scanning were switched to "Off". That's very surprising and quite significant as people who are going to visit various stores won't be able to see the dramatic difference in PQ unless they know how to enable local dimming and LED scanning. Without these enabled, 81 Series becomes nothing more than 71 Series with LED backlight (which, BTW, should still look better than 71 Series due to 105% NTSC color gamut).

Regarding the decreased brightness with LED scanning enabled, it's obviously due to the strobing backlight but the lower luminance should be a non-issue in a dark, home theater, environment. Again, this thing is not for the living room.

Did you have a chance to compare the 81 with the Kuro plasmas?

Thanks again for the report.

P.S. With the imminent release of 81 Series this thread is starting to attract more and more attention-seeking individuals (aka, trolls) who attempt to hijack this thread by spreading misinformation, discussing dead-horse topics and injecting other off-topic nonsense (If you think 81 Series is the greatest thing but hate glossy screen and want to put pressure on Samsung to make a matte version, go complain to Samsung. Whining in an online forum won't help you. Share your misery elsewhere). If you're not interested in plowing through pages of the recent noise and want only to find relevant posts where people post their pictures and impressions of 81 Series, let me remind you that the first post is being constantly updated with links to new relevant info.

Perhaps someone could start a new owners thread?

this thread is old and too long already

Ok, I found it. Odd that they'd bury it so deep, and that you have to be in movie mode to use it...

Anyway, even when enabling it it's not part of the feature demo. I don't yet have a good idea what effect it has.

Since you are the first owner who is continuing to provide feedback, would you consider starting the Official Owner Thread?.

...

Since you are the first owner who is continuing to provide feedback, would you consider starting the Official Owner Thread?.
...You mean the Official Non-Disappearing Owners Thread?

Any disadvantages to having local dimming on? I'm a bit weary that they left it as an option, because this means that there are drawbacks that would make some customers keep it off.

Good point!- put another way;
"Under what circumstances would it be appropriate turn off the LD feature?"


Also, I find the argument that this is an HT display that you are supposed to watch in a darkened room ( making reflection complaints irrelevant ) to be weak.

I see no evidence that Sammy is marketing this as anything but a TV making it fair game for comments that apply to TV's.

If the '81 is really an HT device then why even make a 40" - or attach speakers ( ugly ones at that).
How may HT setups use TV speakers? - not many I bet.

I don't care if it makes lousy coffee - I have a product designed for that purpose but I do care if it will display TV pictures well in my Living room in daylight.

Would Sammy ever consider slapping a "best viewed in a darkened room" sticker on the box - I doubt it.

Matte panel deteriorates picture quality. This is a pure fact. Glossy panel is an engineering choice. If you can't live with a glossy tv, then look elsewhere. There are countless tv manufactures making matte tvs.

I can agree with that. Hopefully they will add anti-glare/reflection coatings next year.

When I got rid of my plasma for an LCD the one greatest thing was I could take down the black out drapes. I really don't like living in a cave without light just to watch TV in the daytime.
I love the Sammy 71 series but, I believe i'll wait for the 81 series matte or go with the XBR. And for anti reflection coatings on plasma? Have you seen what it does? Dulls it. And like I've said before there isn't a plasma at CC that compares to the 71's.

Also ones that believe can't live without glossy or plasma, haven't seen the the XBR's. Pretty impressive matte.

I'm not in the market for a new LCD, just got my Sharp 37D90U June 2006 (for $2800..yikes!), but intrigued by the 81 series b/c of the LED BL. I was also surprised about the glossy screen though, and wondered why they would choose to do that. I came across this blog from zdnet re: glossy screens of the new imacs and thought this could apply to the 81 too (or any glossy screen). Interesting read, although most will still overwhelmingly prefer matte, as do I.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=809

[QUOTE=davidjschenk;11416302]Geez...

I go on a road trip to the Philadelphia suburbs to look at this thing in person,

Oh my...I feel like I was there with you, I cant WAIT to see one of these.

Bless you kind sir for making the pilgrimage and congrats on the new set. Couldn't talk yourself into a 46", eh?

When I got rid of my plasma for an LCD the one greatest thing was I could take down the black out drapes. I really don't like living in a cave without light just to watch TV in the daytime.
I love the Sammy 71 series but, I believe i'll wait for the 81 series matte or go with the XBR. And for anti reflection coatings on plasma? Have you seen what it does? Dulls it. And like I've said before there isn't a plasma at CC that compares to the 71's.

Also ones that believe can't live without glossy or plasma, haven't seen the the XBR's. Pretty impressive matte.You exaggerate things FAR too much. Feel free to visit my home where I can show exactly how a plasma with an anti-glare coating operates (day and night).

Having recently purchased a 720p DLP front projector, I wasn't even planning to buy a flatscreen TV, but this is making me reconsider. I don't own a TV today so the justification for one will be that much easier.

Which 720p PJ did you get? I got the Sony VPL-AW15 myself. Love it!!

I'm assuming he was using a standard def dvd?

I was indeed. I did see some high definition stuff on the demo blu-ray disc they had, but I am not a blu-ray supporter, so I have no such discs of my own.

The DVD *was* upconverted by the BD player, but nowhere near as well as my computer does it.

-David

Also do we know yet how it handles 1080p/24 (3:2 pull-down or 5:5)?

Just on a simple standard DVD the motion (with the smoothing feature on) was B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L. I turned it off and replayed the same scene just to double-check, and it was like night and day, man. Night and day.

Yours,

David

Just a few comments about gaming on 81. It sounds like LED MotionPlus is a form of black frame insertion. Is that correct? This is good news. See this article:

http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/707gear/

If you are a gamer you should be very happy. You do NOT want interpolated frames in a video game. This requires the set to wait for the game to send the next frame so it can compare it to the previous frame, do massive computation to figure out the interpolation, display that new synthesized frame (with possible errors/artifacts), and the FINALLY display the real next frame. You are talking about serious lag. Read some of the XBR4 thread and people say you can't even play fast twitch games with that feature turned on. But on the 81, you can reduce motion blur during games.

I do think the gloss screen will be a bad thing for gamers since you need an unimpeded view of all the action in a video game. I looked at the XBR4 next to another brand (I forget) and the Sony had a matte screen that I would say is in between super diffuse and gloss. I think it was a good compromise. Colors and sharpness were good but it knocked out the background light sources fairly well. Hopefully Sammy will offer this later.

Could you please stop complaining about gloss? There will be matte led lcds next year.

OK, - but I want semi-glos!

Just a few comments about gaming on 81. It sounds like LED MotionPlus is a form of black frame insertion. Is that correct? This is good news. Yes. The backlight simply isn't lit for a good chunk of each frame time (probably equal to pixel response time) while LCs align to a correct position. On top of that, you have backlight scanning so at no point in time the screen is fully lit. I suspect there's only one quadrant of the screen being illuminated at one time and the illumination follows a circular pattern. It sounds like that's what the Samsung rep meant by "LED quadrant scanning".

What also caught my attention in your post was that the default settings for local dimming and LED scanning were switched to "Off". That's very surprising and quite significant as people who are going to visit various stores won't be able to see the dramatic difference in PQ unless they know how to enable local dimming and LED scanning. Without these enabled, 81 Series becomes nothing more than 71 Series with LED backlight (which, BTW, should still look better than 71 Series due to 105% NTSC color gamut).

Regarding the decreased brightness with LED scanning enabled, it's obviously due to the strobing backlight but the lower luminance should be a non-issue in a dark, home theater, environment. Again, this thing is not for the living room.

Did you have a chance to compare the 81 with the Kuro plasmas?


Hi vtms,

Well, the BL feature was not turned off on purpose. The problem was simple: they had that stupid thing set so that every time you hook it up to a new input, you have to redo all the settings. Every time. For whatever reason, the default is to have every new feature OFF and that wretched dynamic contrast setting MAXED. Does that make sense? Not to me, no, but then, I'm not an electrical engineer. In the demo that they loop, however, they have it set to default to having the local dimming ON (I don't know about the motion smoothing feature).

I should mention that when using the motion smoothing, the loss of brightness is not very big. I have no doubt that it easily can be calibrated out just by increasing the brightness and backlight settings. Tangentially, I did find one disappointing thing about the backlight. They have the controls set so that the backlight is tweakable only in large incremements; it goes from 0 to 10. My Westinghouse went from 0 to 100. That allowed for a much finer grain of tuning. It's a minor quibble, frankly.

Oh yeah, it also doesn't have separate RGB controls, at least not in the main menu. You're given a stupid little bar that you can balance between red and green; that's it. Why did they do that? I just don't get it. Are separate controls for each color hard to give? I'm not being sarcastic here--I really don't understand why so many makers do this.

Yours,

David

Oh my...I feel like I was there with you, I cant WAIT to see one of these.

Bless you kind sir for making the pilgrimage and congrats on the new set. Couldn't talk yourself into a 46", eh?

Hi pelowell,

Not for four thousand dollars, no. Like I mentioned earlier, my *car* is worth that, and my car is a much, much more useful machine than a tv, so in terms of its use value, the car beats any tv by an order of magnitude.

As best I can tell, the real downside to these displays is their cost.

Oh, vtms--I did not specifically compare the 81 with a Kuro simply because I knew for a fact I was not going to get a plasma (this is a computer monitor for me). I did check a lot of LCDs and a pretty good number of plasmas, though, both in the Magnolia and in the main BB store. In my admittedly colored opinion, the 81 was the best display in the entire store (note, though, that I did not notice any OLEDs anywhere).

Yours,

David

Hey guys We've had the 71 in our bb store for almost a week and i've tried the 120hz refresh on the tv but i actually don't prefer it. On our sports loop it makes feet, bats, tennis and baseballs almost lag and artifact. Then on movies it makes them not look like a movie anymore it's too smooth is there something i may not be doing right as far as settings?

Good point!- put another way;
"Under what circumstances would it be appropriate turn off the LD feature?"


Also, I find the argument that this is an HT display that you are supposed to watch in a darkened room ( making reflection complaints irrelevant ) to be weak.

I see no evidence that Sammy is marketing this as anything but a TV making it fair game for comments that apply to TV's.

If the '81 is really an HT device then why even make a 40" - or attach speakers ( ugly ones at that).
How may HT setups use TV speakers? - not many I bet.

I don't care if it makes lousy coffee - I have a product designed for that purpose but I do care if it will display TV pictures well in my Living room in daylight.

Would Sammy ever consider slapping a "best viewed in a darkened room" sticker on the box - I doubt it.

Move on cry baby, we are sick of hearing about the glossy, write Samsung don't buy the tv, better yet stay out of the thread, that topic has been beaten to death.:mad:

Oh, for... could we please please *please* drop the name-calling?? Seriously. Please???? It's to the point now where I almost want to leave the thread.

-David

Oh, for... could we please please *please* drop the name-calling?? Seriously. Please???? It's to the point now where I almost want to leave the thread.

-David

LEAVE I am sick of the same thing beat to death I am done with this post, here you can read the next 50 I hate glossy post from people who can not even afford the set.

OK, - but I want semi-glos!

Get the glossy and don't dust it :)

LEAVE I am sick of the same thing beat to death I am done with this post, here you can read the next 50 I hate glossy post from people who can not even afford the set.

Actually, sir, my comment was not directly specifically at you (though your post did fall under the rubric). There has been a LOT of acrimony between quite a few people who do not even personally know each other on this thread over the last few days, and for the life of me I cannot see where or why it is needed.

I fully realize that it is frustrating to be subjected to people hijacking the thread and carping about some one single issue regarding which no new information is even possible anymore. I happen to share your frustration in that regard, especially because it has reached a point where so many of the posts right now just aren't even helpful anymore. Nolo cotendre.

However, I find personal acrimony and insults to be an even bigger turn-off. I mean, if I wanted to read the sort of stuff that's on Slashdot, I'd go to Slashdot. Is it not possible for us to endure what I freely admit is a substantial amount of frustration, appeal to the authority of our kind moderators where necessary, and still maintain a measure of civility? In my personal opinion most of the *frequent* posters here are trying hard to be genuinely helpful both in their questions and in their answers. It is to that spirit of cooperation that I am trying to appeal.

Sincerely,

David

Ok, I found it. Odd that they'd bury it so deep, and that you have to be in movie mode to use it...

Anyway, even when enabling it it's not part of the feature demo. I don't yet have a good idea what effect it has.

Hi Brackhar,

Yeah, I didn't understand that either. I mean, it really is hidden *way* in there. Why do that??? Also, I still don't quite understand why it cannot be used in standard mode. Knowledgeable members, are there, perchance, some technological or logistical limitations that prevented Samsung from enabling the motion smoothing in Standard mode? Also, I note that the 120Hz 71s allow for varying *degrees* of motion smoothing (and apparently it works best on LOW or MEDIUM). Is anything like this possible on the 81s, or is it just a straight ON/OFF feature, given that the effect is achieved by strobing instead of by increasing the physical refresh rate? Does anyone know?

Yours,

David

Oh, vtms--I did not specifically compare the 81 with a Kuro simply because I knew for a fact I was not going to get a plasma (this is a computer monitor for me). After reading your opinions on this set I'm starting to lose interest in that comparison anyway. I really like what you said about motion performance. That was the only unknown factor for me. I see blur even on plasmas and anything less than a smooth motion would be an instant deal-breaker for me. Also, just like you, I would be using 40" as a monitor/TV.

Thanks also for clarifications about LED options being switched to "Off" as default and about loss of brightness with Motion Plus on. These are non-issues.

One last thing. Were you able to see a digital SD feed on this thing? If so, how was the PQ compared to SD on a CRT? Thanks.

Brackhar, any updates on how your evaluation is going?

After reading your opinions on this set I'm starting to lose interest in that comparison anyway. I really like what you said about motion performance. That was the only unknown factor for me. I see blur even on plasmas and anything less than a smooth motion would be an instant deal-breaker for me. Also, just like you, I would be using 40" as a monitor.

Thanks also for clarifications about LED options being switched to "Off" as default and about loss of brightness with Motion Plus on. These are non-issues.

One last thing. Were you able to see a digital SD feed on this thing? If so, how was the PQ compared to SD on a CRT? Thanks.

Hi vtms,

Wow--you probably have more acute eyes than I. On good plasmas I really can't see any motion blur. Therefore, I think you would do well to check this feature out for yourself before writing any large checks. *I* saw ridiculously smooth motion, yes, but I don't know that my eyes are the most discerning ones in this forum.

I did not check for an SD feed--sorry. I actually don't watch tv much at all, so I'm afraid I quite selfishly overlooked that admittedly very important issue. Brackhar, as our only (remaining) member who owns an 81, could you report on that? Does digital SD look acceptable, or are the flaws and artifacts from the poor source rampant?

Yours,

David

David, thanks for the review. time well spent and congrat's on your purchase. We should be due for some more user feedback in the coming days. And thanks for the pics you took while there.

Drew

PS: At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire for the anti-glare crowd: http://www.glarebusters.com :D:D:D:D:DThis is hysterical.

PPS: vtms' earlier post on trolls and other attention mongers is very accurate and par for the course.

I'm still waiting for my 5281 to arrive sometime on monday but when it does I will be sure to start a new official owners thread if no one has done so by then.

It just so happens that I have to finish off some vacation by August 31st or I would lose that time so I took the whole next week off. That should give me a lot of time to tinker with the set and answer some of the questions that you guys may have although my tv/home theatre knowledge is still pretty basic. This will be a learning experience for me.

I've ordered both the Avia and Digital Video Essentials calibration DVDs that I am expecting to arrive the latter part of the week so no calibration until then. This will be my first time calibrating a tv so hopefully the results aren't too bad.

Anyway, just posting to raise my post count past whatever number that is required to link URLs and post pictures or do whatever.

At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire for the anti-glare crowd: http://www.glarebusters.com :D:D:D:D:DThis is hysterical.:D That is funny. It gives new meaning to "As Seen On TV."

PS: At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire for the anti-glare crowd: http://www.glarebusters.com :D:D:D:D:DThis is hysterical.


HAHAHAHA!!

Omigosh--what a terrifying prospect. Could you imagine spending $4k on a 46" tv and then proceeding to spray a bunch of goo directly onto the screen?? Man, that would take some very serious cahones. Wow. Hahahahahaha. Perhaps one of our multi-millionaire members can try it sometime just for kicks.

When my little $3k baby arrives, the only thing that will touch that screen is my super-soft lintless cloth and the air jet from my air duster can. Even my drool (from the honeymoon period) will not be allowed to make contact. No way.

-David

Does anybody know of any stores in the Cincinnati/Dayton, Ohio area that will be carrying the 81 series? I've been looking for a ~52" LCD recently, and I wanted to hold off on buying anything until I managed to see the 81 series in person.

I've looked into Magnolia stores, but the ones I've found are approximately 2 hours drive (Lexington, Louisville, and many in Indianapolis area). I figured if there is something within a more reasonable driving distance, this would be the place to find out...

Also, I still don't quite understand why it cannot be used in standard mode. Also, I note that the 120Hz 71s allow for varying *degrees* of motion smoothing (and apparently it works best on LOW or MEDIUM). Is anything like this possible on the 81s, or is it just a straight ON/OFF feature,


Well, know for sure? The book shows only On or Off for the 81. 71 has three settings.

81 series
LED Motion Plus -> On / Off
Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.


The 71 manual shows 120 Hz in the menus, but this description is the same as above:

71 Series
Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz -> Low / Medium / High

Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.

CadJoe

I'm still waiting for my 5281 to arrive sometime on monday but when it does I will be sure to start a new official owners thread if no one has done so by then.

It just so happens that I have to finish off some vacation by August 31st or I would lose that time so I took the whole next week off. That should give me a lot of time to tinker with the set and answer some of the questions that you guys may have although my tv/home theatre knowledge is still pretty basic. This will be a learning experience for me.

I've ordered both the Avia and Digital Video Essentials calibration DVDs that I am expecting to arrive the latter part of the week so no calibration until then. This will be my first time calibrating a tv so hopefully the results aren't too bad.

Anyway, just posting to raise my post count past whatever number that is required to link URLs and post pictures or do whatever.

Wow wow wow wow. Okay, naturo, you are my new hero.

One thing for which I am dying is calibration data. Sadly, I have neither an Avia disc nor a spyder, so I expect to be highly dependent on other people's calibration reports for my own eventual settings. Whenever you do finish your calibrations, could you please post them and report on why you prefer what you prefer? That would be huge for me.

By any chance, do you have a spyder and/or a calibration disc? If not, no biggie, but if so, your post-calibration settings would set the ideal standard for me.

I'm looking forward to all your reports. Oh, by the way, though, I should offer one little caveat: I encourage you *not* to post right away. Play with it and get a good dose of personal, selfish enjoyment first. These things are so lovely and you paid such a chunk of cash for it, that I think it's reasonable for you to satisfy our collective greed only after satisfying your own for a while.

Yours,

David

Well, know for sure? The book shows only On or Off for the 81. 71 has three settings.

81 series
LED Motion Plus -> On / Off
Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.


The 71 manual shows 120 Hz in the menus, but this description is the same as above:

71 Series
Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz -> Low / Medium / High

Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.

CadJoe

Hi CadJoe,

Huh. That is good information--thanks for that. From what you say, my present guess is that it's an ON/OFF deal, but it is frustrating that Samsung is so inconsistent and sporadic in the literature they release. You'd think the PR guys would take someone to task for this weakness. I mean, it cannot possibly help their sales, now can it?

Yours,

David

You exaggerate things FAR too much. Feel free to visit my home where I can show exactly how a plasma with an anti-glare coating operates (day and night).
You telling me I exaggerate? This is a laugh!

Perhaps someone could start a new owners thread?

this thread is old and too long already


Yes, I think it's time...

Hi pelowell,

Not for four thousand dollars, no. Like I mentioned earlier, my *car* is worth that, and my car is a much, much more useful machine than a tv, so in terms of its use value, the car beats any tv by an order of magnitude.

As best I can tell, the real downside to these displays is their cost.

Oh, vtms--I did not specifically compare the 81 with a Kuro simply because I knew for a fact I was not going to get a plasma (this is a computer monitor for me). I did check a lot of LCDs and a pretty good number of plasmas, though, both in the Magnolia and in the main BB store. In my admittedly colored opinion, the 81 was the best display in the entire store (note, though, that I did not notice any OLEDs anywhere).

Yours,

David


Meh, my car is nothing more than an iPod on wheels. I use it because I have to. My TV is something I use because I WANT to.

Well, know for sure? The book shows only On or Off for the 81. 71 has three settings.

81 series
LED Motion Plus -> On / Off
Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.


The 71 manual shows 120 Hz in the menus, but this description is the same as above:

71 Series
Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz -> Low / Medium / High

Removes drag from fast scenes with a lot of movement to provide a clearer picture.

CadJoe

Okay, thinking about it, I now think it's pretty clear that the LED motion plus thingy is an ON/OFF deal. No sweat. On it I saw none of the problems associated with having the 71s motion plus on HIGH. I did see one other minor thing with it, though, so I suppose I should append this to my earlier review: it tweaks the colors a little bit. I can't say for sure, but I think it made the image a bit greener, or something. It definitely did affect the colors, but lacking expertise, I can't say exactly how.

Yours,

David

For the Canadians on this site. I found an online retailer listing the 5281. Unfortunately it's not in stock.

Dumoulin.com (http://www.dumoulin.com/)

Looks like the french version of this

http://www.audiotronic.ca

Regards

Actually, sir, my comment was not directly specifically at you (though your post did fall under the rubric). There has been a LOT of acrimony between quite a few people who do not even personally know each other on this thread over the last few days, and for the life of me I cannot see where or why it is needed.

I fully realize that it is frustrating to be subjected to people hijacking the thread and carping about some one single issue regarding which no new information is even possible anymore. I happen to share your frustration in that regard, especially because it has reached a point where so many of the posts right now just aren't even helpful anymore. Nolo cotendre.

However, I find personal acrimony and insults to be an even bigger turn-off. I mean, if I wanted to read the sort of stuff that's on Slashdot, I'd go to Slashdot. Is it not possible for us to endure what I freely admit is a substantial amount of frustration, appeal to the authority of our kind moderators where necessary, and still maintain a measure of civility? In my personal opinion most of the *frequent* posters here are trying hard to be genuinely helpful both in their questions and in their answers. It is to that spirit of cooperation that I am trying to appeal.

Sincerely,

David

Amen, just take my tact. Anyone that whines about the glossy screen more than once in multiple posts gets put on my Ignore list(check your avsforum settings, you can ignore users). Those people might have something valuable to add when they're not whining about features they already knew existed on the TV, but I'll never know. No big loss.

Amen, just take my tact. Anyone that whines about the glossy screen more than once in multiple posts gets put on my Ignore list(check your avsforum settings, you can ignore users).

Yah, that thing's pretty good. I checked, and on demand you even can click and read the posts that you have blocked, just in case they contain something. It's a fine feature.

"iPod on wheels." Heheheheheheh...

so david why dont you start and owners thread?
and tally up a big review of you're findings for the first post?

No offense to the new owners reporting in so far as they are helping to the best of their abilities, but it should be more illuminating once we begin to see the feedback coming in from new owners who've owned one or more of some of the higher grade video panels within the last couple of years, having had extensive viewing time in their homes (as we know that showroom viewing experiences do not communicate much useful info), as well as having more substantive experience with flat panel and general film/video-related issues.

As of right now, it's like we've got former Ford Pinto owners upgrading directly to Lamborghini's. Of course, they are going to be utterly amazed. It will be more convincing once we start seeing some people who've long ago graduated from their Pinto's and have made some impressive upgrades along the way, i.e., Lexus, Acura, etc., and now, are seeking an even higher level of performance. That's when I'll really start to pay attention, waiting to see what experienced comparative insights they will have to offer, their opinions as to whether or not the upgrade is significant enough to warrant the extra $$ premiums right now, etc.

I'm sure that will happen soon enough, but in the meantime, I can't get too enthused about the "hands on" feedback we've read about so far.

Get the glossy and don't dust it :)

:D

Hey guys We've had the 71 in our bb store for almost a week and i've tried the 120hz refresh on the tv but i actually don't prefer it. On our sports loop it makes feet, bats, tennis and baseballs almost lag and artifact. Then on movies it makes them not look like a movie anymore it's too smooth is there something i may not be doing right as far as settings?

Try to find your answer in a thread dedicated to the 71 Series. That's where you're most likely to find the right kind of feedback. Your question will probably just get lost in a thread like this one (as it has so far).

Please use this new owners thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896887

And please, no trolling, no attacking other members, no prices, retail links, etc..

Thank you!