Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread

[Rastor]

Curious, any idea of the density of LED's on the panel? Surely it's not per-pixel right?
No, there are millions of pixels but probably only a few thousand LEDs. Still, I anticipate an improvement over whole-screen backlights.

[westa6969]

Curious, any idea of the density of LED's on the panel? Surely it's not per-pixel right?
Everything I read suggestions region, which kinda makes me wonder a bit. Thanks.
I'm trying to imagine two million LED's and what it would cost let alone fit into a panel. Don't know that such a thing would be possible or affordable. I believe it's the pureness of the white light and it's deployment not how many. :D

I imagine it may be close cousin to the Sony 70" though Samsung may call it something different.

"TRILUMINOS™ LED Backlight
The TRILUMINOS LED backlight is used to create a pure white light by emitting pure red, green and blue light allowing for the creation of a wider spectrum of color (102% of the NTSC color gamut) and produces colors like you see them in the real world."

[irkuck]

I'm trying to imagine two million LED's and what it would cost let alone fit into a panel. Don't know that such a thing would be possible or affordable. I believe it's the pureness of the white light and it's deployment not how many. :D[/INDENT]

Before fantasizing let's check the reality. Reality is that the 40" LED BL Sammy panel sold in Europe has 2160 LEDs. These LEDs are arranged in groups of four (2 green+1 red+1 blue) giving 540 groups.

There are outdoor panels composed of discrete LEDs but they are huge. Thinking about 2 milion LED TV is just reinventing the OLED display :D . There is however one critical difference: OLEDs are made of organic materials which makes the technology suitable for making milions of densly packed LEDs (in a process similar to printing).

[mark_1080p]

So if someone could find a way to print inorganic LED we could just have a bare LED panel with <1 msec response time, 1M hour life, 1M:1 CR, etc?

Why not ILED ???

[drew138]

Not sure if there is anything new here:

http://www.i4u.com/article8304.html

[Nambit]

^^ Those aren't the LED ones. For some reason, Samsung's 81-series abroad is totally
different. The Korean 81-series seems comparable to the NA 65-series.

[irkuck]

So if someone could find a way to print inorganic LED we could just have a bare LED panel with <1 msec response time, 1M hour life, 1M:1 CR, etc? Why not ILED ???

Cost and technology reasons as usual. Even if somebody would create technology to put milions of LEDs on glass panels there would be still a huge problem with light uniformity. LEDs have quite big light output variation and it also depends on temperature and aging. So not only milions of LEDs would have to be put on glass, each would have to be monitored and adjusted individually.

As said before, there are LED displays for huge outdoor applications. They are made of discrete LEDs and cost gazilions.

The only viable LED technology for displays is OLED.

[irkuck]

^^ Those aren't the LED ones. For some reason, Samsung's 81-series abroad is totally
different. The Korean 81-series seems comparable to the NA 65-series.

There is also M86 series announced for UK/EU:

http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/television/tftlcd/le40m86bdxxeu.asp?page=Specifications

While in the specs there is no mention of LED BL, the M86 series sets have HDMI 1.3 and 127% normal TV color gamut. This indicates LED BL is actually used. Also, these sets do not have frame
rate upconversion.

[wind_god4]

Are there any pictures of the sets out yet?

[mike123abc]

I went and watched the 65 series. Wow, it was nice to see an LCD again without visible defects. It is nice to have a backup monitor if the 81 series is too expensive. I am going to have trouble holding out much longer for the 81... It would be nice if they could at least get something up on the web site soon.

[Nambit]

No kidding Mike! I just wish they had something on he 81 or 71-series. It's a pain
to deal with vapourware with no details, no pics, nothing, and have a nice set as
the 65-series sitting in front of you. I kinda expect the 81 to be too expensive for
me (at least, the 52 inch model). Then again, I was looking at the Pioneer FHD1
Plasma (which I have to tell myself each day is not worth $7K+, especially if I fear
image retention).

Hope some stuff on the 81/71's come out in the next couple weeks.

(sigh, seems Firefox keeps failing when I'm editing posts here)

[komari]

On the New Samsung LCD panel thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813416&page=23&pp=30) someone posted a link to the German Samsung website describing what would be the closest to the 81s, but with 100Hz (their equivalent to our 120Hz). The price on the 40" was Euro 4299 and apparently that is not even a 1080p set :eek:

Here's the link to the translated link also provided in the thread:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fav%2esamsung%2ede%2farticle%2easp%3fartid%3d4 9BF0CDB%2d0AB3%2d4FD0%2d85E8%2d911743E9EA78

[RLBURNSIDE]

led backlight will be for next spring for me...

[Schwarzenegger]

On the New Samsung LCD panel thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813416&page=23&pp=30) someone posted a link to the German Samsung website describing what would be the closest to the 81s, but with 100Hz (their equivalent to our 120Hz). The price on the 40" was Euro 4299 and apparently that is not even a 1080p set :eek:

Here's the link to the translated link also provided in the thread:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fav%2esamsung%2ede%2farticle%2easp%3fartid%3d4 9BF0CDB%2d0AB3%2d4FD0%2d85E8%2d911743E9EA78

that's the old LED-BL set that came here out around september last year and yes, it is only 1366x768 and the MSRP of samsung in europe are never a serious indicator of street prices. these sets sell for like € 2500 now which is almost 50% off MSRP.

this sets have nothing to do with the announced 81series

on a side note i have to say that they perform amazing when fed with bluray or HD-DVD. amazing colours and very bright.

[komari]

that's the old LED-BL set that came here out around september last year and yes, it is only 1366x768 and the MSRP of samsung in europe are never a serious indicator of street prices. these sets sell for like € 2500 now which is almost 50% off MSRP.

this sets have nothing to do with the announced 81series

on a side note i have to say that they perform amazing when fed with bluray or HD-DVD. amazing colours and very bright.

I must have missed the LED BL from last year - what are the model numbers? I'm surprized that I didn't catch any buzz over such sets if they were already in production and in peoples homes.

[Schwarzenegger]

I must have missed the LED BL from last year - what are the model numbers? I'm surprized that I didn't catch any buzz over such sets if they were already in production and in peoples homes.

they are called the "M91"-series
http://av.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=49BF0CDB-0AB3-4FD0-85E8-911743E9EA78

like said, they can be purchased in almost every electronics-store here and IMO look very nice but they don't offer local dimming

[komari]

they are called the "M91"-series
http://av.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=49BF0CDB-0AB3-4FD0-85E8-911743E9EA78

like said, they can be purchased in almost every electronics-store here and IMO look very nice but they don't offer local dimming
Now I know why I missed them - I assumed you ment they were out here in the US. Just realized that you're actually in Austria! I don't think we've had any LED BL panels in the US consumer electronics market yet, maybe some commercial? I'm sure you're right that the prices will be lower, but probably not low enough for a lot of people.

KO

[bykes]

I went and watched the 65 series. Wow, it was nice to see an LCD again without visible defects. It is nice to have a backup monitor if the 81 series is too expensive. I am going to have trouble holding out much longer for the 81... It would be nice if they could at least get something up on the web site soon.


Are the 81's worth waiting for over the 61-6's? I was planning on getting a 4066f soon, but Im wondering now if I should hold out?

[007craft]

as much as I love CR and colours, My biggest concern is how smooth my xbox 360 runs and the hockey games I ocassionaly watch are. If the 120hz sets smooth things out, then thats what I must buy. I got so much money buring a giant hole n my pocket right now, and the only thing keeping me from running to the store this minute and buying the 65 or 66f series is knowing that my xbox wont run 100% smooth unless I have 120hz (or so im lead to believe)

[Schwarzenegger]

Now I know why I missed them - I assumed you ment they were out here in the US. Just realized that you're actually in Austria! I don't think we've had any LED BL panels in the US consumer electronics market yet, maybe some commercial? I'm sure you're right that the prices will be lower, but probably not low enough for a lot of people.

KO

haha, sorry forgot to mention this :D

you're right, AFAIK they're exclusively available in the european market for now. but for sure the 81series will be a global product and has potential to become the best thing out there. if they will perform on colours like the M91 does plus deliver amazing contrastlevels through local dimming i'm having a hard time to imagine any other display(-technology) that will be able to compete with samsung.

[Shayne2]

For those that are interested the english manual for the european LE-40M91B

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200610/20061013173148500_BN68-01090E-L03-0825.pdf

Page 5 indicates

Supported modes for DVI or HDMI max out at 1080i therefore this is not a 1080P with a warning at the bottom of the table

- Do not attempt to connect the HDMI/DVI connector to a PC or Laptop Graphics Card.
(This will result in a blank screen being displayed)

Has nothing to do with the US versions to come but a bit wierd.

Does anyone know if the 81 or 71 series will have a dvi pc in or will it still be analog.

Regards

[SonyHD]

Does anyone know if the 81 series will support 1080p @ 24fps?

[pep]

So if someone could find a way to print inorganic LED we could just have a bare LED panel with <1 msec response time, 1M hour life, 1M:1 CR, etc?

Why not ILED ???

Actually, people have worked on this for years. The monitor on the Sanyo Xacti HD1 camera/camcorder is OLED. Note that they later introduced the HD1a model which shifted to LCD. From what I have read the OLED disply was gorgeous so I doubt picture quality is why they changed. From what I can gather it was maufacturability and reliability. Now scale those problems up to a large panel. Ouch! Maybe one day the problems will be solved. Sanyo had a joint agreement with another Japanese company on OLED development but the other company backed out. It just isn't ready yet. All of the ocntrast ratio talk is interesting because, in a dark room, an OLED display has theoretically infinite contrast ratio since you shut of the light source.

[aquafire]

007 Craft,

I agree 100%...been asking this question on all the NEW Samsung threads to see how the NEW 61 and 65's deal with motion. I cant stand the issues current LCD's have with Games and real hockey/basketball games. Anyone seen the NEW SHARP with 120hz beside the Samsung 61 or 65 series? DOes the 120hz really clean up the Blur???

[007craft]

007 Craft,

I agree 100%...been asking this question on all the NEW Samsung threads to see how the NEW 61 and 65's deal with motion. I cant stand the issues current LCD's have with Games and real hockey/basketball games. Anyone seen the NEW SHARP with 120hz beside the Samsung 61 or 65 series? DOes the 120hz really clean up the Blur???

Well my friend said they got a new panasonic in at work and it was 120hz (first 120hz set the store got). He said he wont let me buy a tv without the 120hz because it was so good. It looks like the 71 series will be the one for me then. I hope july gets here soon enough.

[lipcrkr]

007 Craft,

I agree 100%...been asking this question on all the NEW Samsung threads to see how the NEW 61 and 65's deal with motion. I cant stand the issues current LCD's have with Games and real hockey/basketball games. Anyone seen the NEW SHARP with 120hz beside the Samsung 61 or 65 series? DOes the 120hz really clean up the Blur???

In the owners thread numerous Sharp owners who returned their 120HZ set noticed that the Samsungs are better, or at least equal, the Sharp's in motion. Keep in mind the Sharp 92u series has 120HZ.

[lipcrkr]

Well my friend said they got a new panasonic in at work and it was 120hz (first 120hz set the store got). He said he wont let me buy a tv without the 120hz because it was so good. It looks like the 71 series will be the one for me then. I hope july gets here soon enough.

See my post.

[mark_1080p]

Actually, people have worked on this for years. The monitor on the Sanyo Xacti HD1 camera/camcorder is OLED. Note that they later introduced the HD1a model which shifted to LCD.Yea, but my question was, why not ILED, inorganic LED, i.e., make a panel with miniature versions of current LED (NOT ORGANIC).

[TNG]

Yea, but my question was, why not ILED, inorganic LED, i.e., make a panel with miniature versions of current LED (NOT ORGANIC).
Can't say for sure, but regular "superbright" LED's are a different breed of LED.

Most of the green and "white light" types are made on saphire wafers because of the need to incorporate specific chemicals that emit at those wavelengths. Also your typical LED process while cheap for red, amber and the like is a on silicon process that was derived from transistor manufacturing techniques and it does not lend itself easily to a large substrate.

The reson why organic LED production holds such promise is for the reason of being able to use the printing methods which are cheaper.

[mark_1080p]

Yep, irkuck had similar comments, the cost bugaboo, thanks.

Well, just for the record, one thing is "clear" ...

81 series will be glossy :(.

[007craft]

Yep, irkuck had similar comments, the cost bugaboo, thanks.

Well, just for the record, one thing is "clear" ...

81 series will be glossy :(.

how do you know? What about the 71 series?

[Warder45]

how do you know? What about the 71 series?

Check the first page. It's Samsung's Super Clear tech.

More and more I'm leaning away from the 81's here at launch. As a gamer not having 120hz included is rough. But not as rough as being as reflective as a plasma. It's great for people with controlled environments but in that case I'd be considering other tech options along with LCD.

[irkuck]

Does anyone know if the 81 series will support 1080p @ 24fps?

The 81 series should be equivalent to the 86 series announced and soon coming to shops in EUrope. It should thus support 24fps as the 86 surely supports it as can be read from translation of the original page in German:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fav.samsung.de%2Farticle.asp%3Fartid %3DAD5C6146-C79C-435B-8EE4-A7F473F40969%26show%3Dfeats&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

[smaybee]

The 81 series should be equivalent to the 86 series announced and soon coming to shops in EUrope. It should thus support 24fps as the 86 surely supports it as can be read from translation of the original page in German:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fav.samsung.de%2Farticle.asp%3Fartid %3DAD5C6146-C79C-435B-8EE4-A7F473F40969%26show%3Dfeats&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8


I am not so sure that these are equivalent to the 81 series I see no mention of LED/local dimming backlight in the description of the 86 series.

[irkuck]

I am not so sure that these are equivalent to the 81 series I see no mention of LED/local dimming backlight in the description of the 86 series.

Right. But they mention extended color gamut (127% normal), 15 000:1 CR HDMI 1.3. Until now this would be LED BL characteristics, maybe they
got it with standard BL :confused:

[mrjgkelly]

The 81 series should be equivalent to the 86 series announced and soon coming to shops in EUrope. It should thus support 24fps as the 86 surely supports it as can be read from translation of the original page in German:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fav.samsung.de%2Farticle.asp%3Fartid %3DAD5C6146-C79C-435B-8EE4-A7F473F40969%26show%3Dfeats&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

I'm thinking this is equivalent to the 71 series

[westa6969]

I'm thinking this is equivalent to the 71 series
I find this interesting as I preordered the Samsung 1200 BD Player with HQV and it's been reported to do 1080P/24 in the initial reviews by new owners on this forum and matching that to this panel with 1080P/24 and 120Hz would be a picture perfect match it seems although I have to admit it's becoming confusing as hell keeping track of all these codes on a global basis guess.

[xb1032]

I saw the 40" 66 series at BB and was quite impressed in a brief viewing. I personally like the glossy screen on this LCD and in comparison all other displays around looked dull next to it including plasmas(BTW I have a controlled environment). In the store lighting blacks were superb. I'm very interested in seeing the new 57" 81 series. I've rarely looked at LCDs specifically because of inadequate black levels but now I'm looking forward to see what the new models bring.

[mark_1080p]

In the store lighting blacks were superb.The glossy Sammy's show store reflections where the blacks are in the image. How you could make such an observation is beyond my capability. Please explain further.

[lipcrkr]

I'm thinking this is equivalent to the 71 series

Yes, i believe the 71 series. Looks like the 71 series will be competing with this.....
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=46lx177

[KLee]

Does anyone know if the 81 series will support 1080p @ 24fps?


It will if its a 120Hz set.....

[mark_1080p]

Sharps are 120 hz without 24 fps support.

[megashock5]

I like the idea of 120Hz, but I'm not sure the 71 series will come out in my price range. The 4661/4665 are expensive enough, IMO.

Wish we'd hear some sort of pricing info soon. Not sure how much longer I can hold out after looking at the 61/65 sets.

[mark_1080p]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(

[foxdie]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(

I doubt late april. Its just like last year with the XX95 and XX96's that were due out in June/july and kept being pushed back...

[cpcmge0]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(


I am curious, why sick?

[sampo-666]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(

Don't feel sick. True black will arrive soon enough. Did they also release pricing for 81 series?

[HD-Freak]

I am curious, why sick?

Because he hates gloss even though he hasn't tried a glossy lcd in normal viewing situations.

[sampo-666]

Because he hates gloss even though he hasn't tried a glossy lcd in normal viewing situations.

Actually these new super clear panels should handle daylight better than non glossy versions.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Actually these new super clear panels should handle daylight better than non glossy versions.

That doesn't make any sense at all. The glossy panel reflects light. I hated my plasma reflections; made me not want to watch TV during the day.

[mark_1080p]

Because he hates gloss even though he hasn't tried a glossy lcd in normal viewing situations.I like gloss in paint, pottery, automobiles, brass hardware, glass. Not on a television screen.

I have enough reports to have a very clear idea how the set performs under reduced ambient lighting from experienced owners based on reports and pics. I value reports from others at AVS, its what makes AVS so valuable, I do not have to try everything out myself to understand how something will perform.

[sampo-666]

That doesn't make any sense at all. The glossy panel reflects light. I hated my plasma reflections; made me not want to watch TV during the day.

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2007/Samsung%20Super%20Clear.jpg

In daylight super clear will provide better contrast. A bit worse reflections should be downside.

[komari]

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2007/Samsung%20Super%20Clear.jpg

In daylight super clear will provide better contrast. A bit worse reflections should be downside.
Is that a monitor you have on the picture with a glossy screen? If so we can see the type of reflections on the lower left which mark doesn't want on his TV set :)

[skyehill]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(

No offense, dude, but damn do you ever get tired of repeating the same thing over and over? We get it already.

[phigment]

Right. But they mention extended color gamut (127% normal), 15 000:1 CR HDMI 1.3. Until now this would be LED BL characteristics, maybe they
got it with standard BL :confused:


Isn't the 127% they use in reference to the PAL colour gamut and not the NTSC? The NTSC colour gamut is larger than PAL.

[mark_1080p]

No offense, dude, but damn do you ever get tired of repeating the same thing over and over? We get it already.That news I just learned as of today ! If you don't like my reaction to that news, too bad.

[mike123abc]

That news I just learned as of today ! If you don't like my reaction to that news, too bad.

Will just have to wait and see how the market votes. If glossy sells better you can bet they will all change over. It seems to be very popular in laptops now. You will have to vote with your dollars and buy brands supporting matte finishes.

[dogmandoo]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(

Hey thanks for that post Mark!

26 more days....wooohoooo......then my LED BLU dreams will come true....
I'm sooooooooooo desperate for info....you are like GOD send...i don't know why I never thought of calling Samsung for ETA's????

[007craft]

my laptop is 3 years old and has a glossy screen. It was sorta wierd at the time when no other laptop had glossy. Personally I love the colours on it but it is completely unusable outside or on the bus because of the sun.

then again, Im not planing to move my big tv out of my house lol. As long as I close the curtains during the day for tv watching, I think glossy will be just fine.

[spincut]

From Samsung USA:

Series 71 and 81 out by end of April.
Series 71 and 81 and all future large panels GLOSSY.

I feel sick ... :(

woah woah hold your horses there, where does it say that? i thought the official word was July (and most were saying august).

btw i saw the 66f's in the store yesterday (and i imagine the frame and screen gloss will look the same as the 81's) and it didnt look half bad. What i mean to imply is, if you ever were able to enjoy and deal with the glass on a CRT this should be fine (and might i add the reflection deph seemed less than a plasma).

[mark_1080p]

I called Samsung today, CSR and supervisor said this.

Glossy on a small laptop is one thing, on a large panel quite another.
These things are gigantic flat mirrors, can't wait to see the 5771.

This is a major development in LCD evolution, out of the blue here it is.
Hard to believe many people at AVS don't even want to talk about it.

People are even saying that its not a feature, rather a preference, so shut up about it.
It IS a feature, a characteristic of a TV, just like black crush, gamma, gamut, etc.
Seems to be a certain hostility toward dissenters that dislike it.

I thought AVS was a place that one could have a good friendly debate in any thread.

[skyehill]

woah woah hold your horses there, where does it say that? i thought the official word was July (and most were saying august).

btw i saw the 66f's in the store yesterday (and i imagine the frame and screen gloss will look the same as the 81's) and it didnt look half bad. What i mean to imply is, if you ever were able to enjoy and deal with the glass on a CRT this should be fine (and might i add the reflection deph seemed less than a plasma).

Probably got misinformation about the date. They'd be morons to release them so close to the release of the 61s and 65s.

[spincut]

I called Samsung today, CSR and supervisor said this.

Glossy on a small laptop is one thing, on a large panel quite another.
These things are gigantic flat mirrors, can't wait to see the 5771.

This is a major development in LCD evolution, out of the blue here it is.
Hard to believe many people at AVS don't even want to talk about it.

People are even saying that its not a feature, rather a preference, so shut up about it.
It IS a feature, a characteristic of a TV, just like black crush, gamma, gamut, etc.
Seems to be a certain hostility toward dissenters that dislike it.

I thought AVS was a place that one could have a good friendly debate in any thread.

a sony csr once told me that they had come out with a method to fix the cloudiness on my tv and that a repair man would be sent to apply it soon.....the rapair person said i was full of crap when i said sony told me that and refused to come out.

and on top of that all the press is saying july or august, so i was really hoping there was somewhere where "samsung USA" had actually said that in writing.

and they are not "big flat mirrors", do you even own one? i was at the store myself and was NOT comparing them to a laptopt monitor, of all things. I was hesitant too as tghey are of course not mat like other LCD's, but they are definetly less of a deph of reflection as a plasma screen.

[mark_1080p]

and they are not "big flat mirrors", do you even own one? i was at the store myself and was NOT comparing them to a laptop monitor, of all things. I was hesitant too as they are of course not matte like other LCD's, but they are definetely less of a depth of reflection as a plasma screen.
You might check Therese's post in the Sammy thread. She is a very reliable person, has a plasma, and stated that they are on par with plasma. Some others have said this as well. That is my observation also.

Asking the question "do you even own one?" implies that I would be better qualified to judge or perhaps that I should shut up because I do not own one. Relative reflectivity is one characteristic that may be effectively judged in the storeroom setting, where side by side comparisons may be made.

If I was fed misinformation, blame Sammy. She specifically said ALL 2007 models will be out by end of April, including those mentioned.

[spincut]

yes i know that, and thusly i have the same basis for comparison "unless you own one", otherwise i had the oppurtunity to compare what the 81's will eventually look like myself, and i'm saying that they appear not as bad as the plasma screens.

some people that have that much of an issue with it may not see the relative level of difference and may feel that a screen like that is simply a screen like that period, but i definetly feel it does not have as deep a reflection as many plasma's, and i saw this with my own eyes side by side as you said.

-and fyi you were then fed info from "sammy csr", not "sammy usa", of which i would note there is a big difference, as i'm sure alot of us here have been given rather untrustworthy info from a csr person, so it's always good to note that as a seperate from a company press release.

[dogmandoo]

Probably got misinformation about the date. They'd be morons to release them so close to the release of the 61s and 65s.

Unless the 71/81s are in a different price market....aka....more expensive...

These aggressive product introductions will allow Sammy to dominate the market faster making Sharp/LG/Toshiba products look farther and farther behind.

If the date that mark's Sammy rep said is true that is....

Ughhh, sorry i just wet my pants thinking about the 81 series again.....

[vtms]

End of April? Seems too good to be true, I'm afraid. I won't believe it until I see it confirmed in Samsung's press release.

[wpwj40e]

Just a note on the "glare" feature of the 65...and supposedly the 71 and 81. I am in the market for a larger set so am watching these current sets. I have owned many LCD's - and own a couple now as well as a couple of PLasma's. The pioneer 1140 I have does a pretty good job with dealing with reflections and glare. Clearly they are still there and my personal opinion is that the current 65 model I saw was somewhat close to the 1140 in that particular respect. (Although not as bad as my Panny 6UY plasma which is a mirror:) in certain conditions)

In no way - do I mean this comment to detract from what I also thought was some of the best PQ to be found in the LCD market today. I was quite impressed with the black levels, shadow detail and color reproduction of the new sammy's - the 65 in particular.

While not having this unit side by side with my Pioneer and obviously not seeing it in "dark room fully light controlled conditions" - I used some test material from my MAC to look at shadow detail and blacks as well as HD DVD (in store using an A1 and blu ray).

I have also owned a couple of sharps (62's) and the Sammy was about the best LCD I have seen to date. In several area's I personally felt it surpassed what my 1140 is capable of - notably HD DVD scenes (Batman etc) and was also very good on SD (Star wars etc). I would actually have given the edge to the SD material to the Pioneer and the HD material to the Sammy. In the non optimized conditions I was able to pretty quickly dial in black levels that both held shadow detail while at the same time held their own in dark scenes/night sky etc.

While I found a few little things that bothered me witht he Sammy - they were few and indeed little. If the new 71/81 series can put out the same PQ (in the larger sizes) these sets will be tough to beat.

Clearly there is a difference in glare and reflectivity between the 61 and 65 series. I preferred the more matte finish of the 61 series, while I prefered the PQ of the 65 series. Maybe the 65 series isn't as refelctive as most plasma's - but it does approach that of the 1140. IMHO - Some folks will prefer the slightly better PQ and "shine" and some will prefer the more matte finish. In either case you will not be a loser as these are VERY nice sets. Hopefully Sammy will put out some of the larger models with the same choices - what a great thing to have that choice!!!!

Therese

[spincut]

i thought the one i saw was a 66f model, so i'm not sure how that fits into it (and i thought it was the only 6x line, like with the 71 and 81's i figured would also be), and wasn't aware that there were other levels to it.

but yeah from what i saw i would definetly beleive that it is close to what would be thought of as the best/better reflective plasma end.

[Nambit]

End of April? Seems too good to be true, I'm afraid. I won't believe it until I see it confirmed in Samsung's press release.

Something is telling me that "end of april" is when they'll release details. For such
supposedly wicked TV's, you'd figure they'd be showing it off plenty before releasing
it to the public. Perhaps I'm wrong... and that would be great. :)

[tyba]

We can expect a 46" 81 series to be in the $4500-$5000 range, right? I just bought a 4066f, which I love, but would feel like an ass if the 81's were in my price range.

[bearfun]

Y
ou might check Therese's post in the Sammy thread. She is a very reliable person, has a plasma, and stated that they are on par with plasma. Some others have said this as well. That is my observation also.

Asking the question "do you even own one?" implies that I would be better qualified to judge or perhaps that I should shut up because I do not own one. Relative reflectivity is one characteristic that may be effectively judged in the storeroom setting, where side by side comparisons may be made.

If I was fed misinformation, blame Sammy. She specifically said ALL 2007 models will be out by end of April, including those mentioned.
HEY GUYS TAKE IT EASY ON THE MESSENGERS.I am in vancouver bc CANADA.I was told the same thing april for all new lcd tvs from SAMSUNG.This was passed on to me by a samsung rep.

[Beefchopper]

We can expect a 46" 81 series to be in the $4500-$5000 range, right? I just bought a 4066f, which I love, but would feel like an ass if the 81's were in my price range.


I think it's a little too early to feel like an ass. Even if ithe 81's do come out very soon and even though the 61 and 65 series sets seem terrfific, the 81's have a lot of new technology in them. Who knows if they'll be as relatively problem free as the 61's and 65's or if they'll have their own set of problems once we get to see them?

[lipcrkr]

Something is telling me that "end of april" is when they'll release details. For such
supposedly wicked TV's, you'd figure they'd be showing it off plenty before releasing
it to the public. Perhaps I'm wrong... and that would be great. :)

I agree. How can Samsung release these panels in a couple of weeks without having an MSRP? Releasing the full specs and MSRP at the end of April for a July/August release makes more sense.
And speaking of MSRP, i don't see how the 71 series can be that much more than the 65's. The only major diffrence i can see is 120hz, and it seems this feature is not all it's cracked up to be.

[mike123abc]

Sharp was shipping their 92 series before they appeared on their web site. All that they had out was a line brochure with no MSRPs in it and vague details.

I would love to see that the 81 does 120hz with 24p input 50-100k:1 contrast. The interesting thing is going to be how do they measure the contrast ratio? One would assume they take the brightest possible pixel and compare to the dimmest possible without it being turned off.

Samsung has been in the shadow of Sony and Sharp. Sharp fumbled the ball with the bands produced in their new factory, but it is letting them give intense price competition. Sony likes to be high priced and claim the high end. Samsung appears to be ready to take on Sharp with a working set with the 61/65/66 series at the low end and Sony with the 71 series, and try to top everyone with the 81 series.

I love the battle and want to see the 81 ASAP, even if just posted on the web by the end of the month!

[RLBURNSIDE]

in Canada by the end of this month I'll buy that instead....unless the glare bothers me so much. DARN' it

I can control my light but already live in too much darkness...

am I a troll if I post in this thread? or does spending thousands of dollars only give you privileges such as "freedom to ask questions in an owners thread" only AFTER the money is spent...

if contrast is the #1 thing your eyes are attracted to according to those articles---then 50 or 100k:1 (native?) vs 10k:1 dynamic really tells me it might easily be worth the additional 2x cost even...buyer's remorse...buyer beware. every year leaves last year in the dust, and some are less lucky than others.

if it takes glossyness to achieve 100.000:1 in an LCD then so be it. be da*ned the reflections and operate in basement dungeon blackness. sounds lonely and necromantic doesn't it

[lipcrkr]

Sharp was shipping their 92 series before they appeared on their web site. All that they had out was a line brochure with no MSRPs in it and vague details.

I would love to see that the 81 does 120hz with 24p input 50-100k:1 contrast. The interesting thing is going to be how do they measure the contrast ratio? One would assume they take the brightest possible pixel and compare to the dimmest possible without it being turned off.

Samsung has been in the shadow of Sony and Sharp. Sharp fumbled the ball with the bands produced in their new factory, but it is letting them give intense price competition. Sony likes to be high priced and claim the high end. Samsung appears to be ready to take on Sharp with a working set with the 61/65/66 series at the low end and Sony with the 71 series, and try to top everyone with the 81 series.

I love the battle and want to see the 81 ASAP, even if just posted on the web by the end of the month!

The Toshiba LX177 will do 120HZ and 1080p24. Perhaps the 71 series will do this to justify a premium over the 65 series.

[drewde]

I have read so many people complaining about the glossy screen on the 65 series and then I went and saw it for myself at Magnolia, and BB. I must say I was surprised by the fact that I was really impressed with this TV. I can understand the argument for not wanting the glare, but this is the first LCD where I felt like I was watching a really big flat CRT or what SED might look like. It has that CRT like glow to it. It was the first LCD that seemed to really give plasma a real run for it's money. There is absolutely no question that this added saturation and clarity comes with more glare than a matt screen, but in my world I think the pros out weigh the cons on this one.

Of course it is just one readers opinion.

[wtfer]

to anyone saying end of April, how informed did the Samsung rep look like?

Just a PR lackey that doesn't know the difference between a plasma & LCD, or someone that did know what they were talking about?

[mark_1080p]

She said it as if she had said it many times before and it was common knowledge.
She talked to a supervisor.

But they are CSR's ...

[bearfun]

to anyone saying end of April, how informed did the Samsung rep look like?

Just a PR lackey that doesn't know the difference between a plasma & LCD, or someone that did know what they were talking about?
what kind of question is that?the same samsung guy told me the 65 and 61,66 would be launched in canada on apr 1st and they were in the store on Apr 2nd.Canada samsung couldn't even give me this info,so i am still sticking to his version till i am proven wrong.

[Shayne2]

I was wondering what is the logic in releasing the lower end of your 2007 line before the high end. Is this so impatient people buy your cheaper brand? or maybe you are hoping no one will buy your product until they see your full line (like us)? From a sales point of view you would think the best is to get the entire line out as quick as possible, at least release more specs on the high end series including MSRP so we can decide. Here's hoping for a early May release because money burns a hole in my pocket :D.

Regards

[mike123abc]

I was wondering what is the logic in releasing the lower end of your 2007 line before the high end.

I wonder if they are sorting their panels. It could be that they are testing the panels to see which ones can do 120HZ, and those that fail go into the 61/65/66 line. It is just pure speculation, but chip makers do it all the time, one wonders how uniform the LCD plants really are.

[marshall110]

End of April? Seems too good to be true, I'm afraid. I won't believe it until I see it confirmed in Samsung's press release.

Wonder if the rep Mark talked to didn't have a clue and thought he was asking about the 61/65/66s and was like "Yeah, we are releasing new TVs, this month".

The only thing that makes sense about them releasing the 71/81's so close to the 61/65/66s is if the price bracket is substantially higher, other than that I'd be suprised if we saw them in stores before November.

[sampo-666]

I wonder if they are sorting their panels. It could be that they are testing the panels to see which ones can do 120HZ, and those that fail go into the 61/65/66 line. It is just pure speculation, but chip makers do it all the time, one wonders how uniform the LCD plants really are.

120hz has nothing to do with panels. Most of the people go to store and pick display that looks best on their price range. Manufacturers need massive sales from "low end" displays to pay new manufacturing plants and lines. 81 is a niche product, but important for future and brand. Low end models usually don't have many new features, so manufacturer can launch them first. With competetiton from other manufacturers, holding back ready models will only increase the amount of lost sales.

[bbiggs32]

I called Samsung today, CSR and supervisor said this.

Glossy on a small laptop is one thing, on a large panel quite another.
These things are gigantic flat mirrors, can't wait to see the 5771.

Hard to believe many people at AVS don't even want to talk about it.

People are even saying that its not a feature, rather a preference, so shut up about it.

It IS a feature, a characteristic of a TV, just like black crush, gamma, gamut, etc.
Seems to be a certain hostility toward dissenters that dislike it.

I thought AVS was a place that one could have a good friendly debate in any thread.

For the last time. I'm sorry if you find this even remotely offensive, but I'm just being honest.

1. You are confusing "feature" with "problem," "issue" or "limitation of LCD technology."

A feature is something they intended to include on the TV. The glossy screen is such a thing. Black crush is a problem, and unintended consequence or a limitation of LCD technology. Do you think Sharp technicians sat around thinking, "Wow, we should add a feature to our new LCD line, BANDS!"? No.

2. The glossy screen on my 4665 is the only reason I bought an LCD. In my opinion, it adds the depth and contrast to the picture, bringing some of the benefits of plasma to LCDs. This is the first LCD that I have not had for two days and returned.

3. They make a 4661. They released this model, which has EXTREMELY similar specs, for people like you who do not want glossy screens because they have lots of light sources in their viewing area. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge this fact, and complain about the 4665. Your comments are over in the 4065 4665 5265 owner thread.

4. So the 71 and 81 is not going to come in matte? I'm sorry. There are going to be plenty of nice LCDs coming out from Sony, and maybe Samsung will release a non-glossy counterpart to the 71 and 81 series like they did for the 65 series. It makes sense, they did it this time.

The bottom line is that, at this point, there is nothing to debate. If you don't like glossy screens, get the 4661. Anything regarding the 71 and 81 series is pure speculation and there is no reason to assume that they will not release a matte version as they did with the 65 series.

Samsung does not owe you anything. There are plenty of people out there that like the glossy screen. There are plenty of companies that only make matte LCDs. In fact, they all do, except that Samsung has release ONE GLOSSY MODEL. It's the whining that people are getting sick of--they aren't trying to stifle honest debate. In addition, you are confusing the concept of feature and unintended problems or technological limitations. That may be annoying some people, as it's difficult to debate an opponent who doesn't understand the issues.

[westa6969]

From a marketing standpoint what Samsung has done is very wise in expanding the market segment and enabled capturing potential plasma preference folks as they've also done in plasma with the filterbright II on the plasmas. I'm confident they will fill both segments eventually and Sony which is in the same factory they share may certainly stay with their matte or go BI also.

There is a difference with this glossy screen and though I'm not certain I could live with it in my own viewing room with bright sun I found it very unique at the store that when I did direct viewing it had the ability to mask most of it and then when the screen went blank it was like a mirror or at off angles. I must admit it had one of the best panels in the store easily and great blacks and no flaws with out of the box settings. There is only one way I'd live with the "Intermittent" reflections is if delivered the Wow factor and details of HD that matches and SXRD - though I favor LCD I have never seen that fully met yet on an LCD or plasma.

Mark means well but he's been burned with issues on his 52" Samsung and perhaps burning out waiting for his holy grail panel and I think we are sensing that frustration as he usually is a very positive contributor here. My frustration is waiting for the 65" Sharp without banding or the 70" Samsung as I want bigger than my 57" Sharp. Must say the new Samsung looks terrific but with my Sunny Room it would take several visits to decide. Hopefully Samsung has covered both sides of the aisle like a good politician and the leader in CE TV's. My bet is they would not go all gloss unless they gave that up to Sony and everyone else - that's unlikely as they more than anyone else likes as many segments as possible.

Patience is Bitter but it's Fruit is Sweet Mark - hopefully we'll know soon! ;)

[dogmandoo]

For the last time. I'm sorry if you find this even remotely offensive, but I'm just being honest.

1. You are confusing "feature" with "problem," "issue" or "limitation of LCD technology."

A feature is something they intended to include on the TV. The glossy screen is such a thing. Black crush is a problem, and unintended consequence or a limitation of LCD technology. Do you think Sharp technicians sat around thinking, "Wow, we should add a feature to our new LCD line, BANDS!"? No.

2. The glossy screen on my 4665 is the only reason I bought an LCD. In my opinion, it adds the depth and contrast to the picture, bringing some of the benefits of plasma to LCDs. This is the first LCD that I have not had for two days and returned.

3. They make a 4661. They released this model, which has EXTREMELY similar specs, for people like you who do not want glossy screens because they have lots of light sources in their viewing area. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge this fact, and complain about the 4665. Your comments are over in the 4065 4665 5265 owner thread.

4. So the 71 and 81 is not going to come in matte? I'm sorry. There are going to be plenty of nice LCDs coming out from Sony, and maybe Samsung will release a non-glossy counterpart to the 71 and 81 series like they did for the 65 series. It makes sense, they did it this time.

The bottom line is that, at this point, there is nothing to debate. If you don't like glossy screens, get the 4661. Anything regarding the 71 and 81 series is pure speculation and there is no reason to assume that they will not release a matte version as they did with the 65 series.

Samsung does not owe you anything. There are plenty of people out there that like the glossy screen. There are plenty of companies that only make matte LCDs. In fact, they all do, except that Samsung has release ONE GLOSSY MODEL. It's the whining that people are getting sick of--they aren't trying to stifle honest debate. In addition, you are confusing the concept of feature and unintended problems or technological limitations. That may be annoying some people, as it's difficult to debate an opponent who doesn't understand the issues.

I think we should congratulate mark1080p for his thoughts on glossy screens because if it were not for his post we would not have found out that the 4661f and the 4665f share the same panel!

Also he did provide us with end of april as the arrival date for the 71/81 series, whether this is true or not is beside the point....he is a true contributor to the AVS forums, a date is a date.....afterall this is a anticipation/speculation thread on the 71/81 series....

[MrFoxer]

From a marketing standpoint what Samsung has done is very wise in expanding the market segment and enabled capturing potential plasma preference folks as they've also done in plasma with the filterbright II on the plasmas.

I agree that it was smart to offer the glossy and the matte in the 46" size, but I question the smarts behind choosing glossy over matte in the 52" size. I want a quality LCD larger than 46" and my room is severely bright. I've got lots of good quality 50" and up plasma options, most at prices below a comparable size LCD price, but I can't find an LCD that I'm happy with at that size. The Samsung seems to have the edge right now in non-banded/clouded superior PQ for large LCD's, and I think they gave away some of that advantage by moving closer to the competitive plasma market segment instead of offering the large LCD with the matte surface where they'd be relatively "king of the hill." The anti-reflection of a matte surface is seen by many as an important advantage of LCD over plasma. If the 61 matte was offered in 52", I'd probably own one now.

[bpmurr]

I think we should congratulate mark1080p for his thoughts on glossy screens because if it were not for his post we would not have found out that the 4661f and the 4665f share the same panel!


Actually that congrats would go out to taphil and I for taking shots of our 4665f and 4661f sets respectively in the owners thread with the backs off.

[dogmandoo]

Actually that congrats would go out to taphil and I for taking shots of our 4665f and 4661f sets respectively in the owners thread with the backs off.

I've said it once and i'll say it again,

YOU GUYS RULE bpmurr and taphil,
for stripping your sammy babes of their bathing suits
and letting us see all of that metallic, PCB, LCD sex under there,
My heros!

but we gotta give mark abit of credit for bitching about the gloss/matte thing too....
I'm such a whore for this LCD porn.....
I think i will go wet my pants again by staring at your naked 4661f.....drool ... :p

[taurus2007]

I think i will go wet my pants again by staring at your naked 4661f.....drool ... :p

Just a little too much info there, dogmandoo. :eek:

[bbiggs32]

Wow. I see you've got a lot of experience with regard to adding things to the discussion.

...

Anyways.

If the the 4661 and the 4665 are the same panels, where does the extra 5,000 contrast ration come from? Is it just the screen? Is there a more sophisticated video processor? Has anyone looked at this issue?

[mark_1080p]

1. You are confusing "feature" with "problem," "issue" or "limitation of LCD technology." A feature is something they intended to include on the TV. The glossy screen is such a thing. Black crush is a problem, and unintended consequence or a limitation of LCD technology. Do you think Sharp technicians sat around thinking, "Wow, we should add a feature to our new LCD line, BANDS!"? No.

No confusion here. Sometimes features are also problems. Samsungs have in the past crushed blacks because they were designed a certain way, the gamma clips at low IRE to give the set the appearance of more contrast. My 800:1 Sharps do not crush blacks despite the lower CR. So that was a design decision which resulted in a problem.

3. They make a 4661. They released this model, which has EXTREMELY similar specs, for people like you who do not want glossy screens because they have lots of light sources in their viewing area. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge this fact, and complain about the 4665. Your comments are over in the 4065 4665 5265 owner thread.

They announced a 5261 at CES. They did not bring it to market. I need a 52, they did not deliver. I have been waiting for a defect-free 52 for 2 years, now this omission, hence the frustration. There is no choice at 52", there is nothing out there. I like the 4661, I have stated I liked it in posts. I may have to get that, but it is too small.

4. So the 71 and 81 is not going to come in matte? I'm sorry. There are going to be plenty of nice LCDs coming out from Sony, and maybe Samsung will release a non-glossy counterpart to the 71 and 81 series like they did for the 65 series. It makes sense, they did it this time.

According to Samsung, all future large LCD will be glossy. There are no models scheduled for this year that are matte at 52", none. Sharp is hopeless, Sony is probably not an option for me (I have not faith in their quality), maybe Mitsubishi will come through.

The bottom line is that, at this point, there is nothing to debate. If you don't like glossy screens, get the 4661. Anything regarding the 71 and 81 series is pure speculation and there is no reason to assume that they will not release a matte version as they did with the 65 series.

The debate is on the emergence of reflective LCD screens, a very significant step in the evolution of flat panels. There is everything to debate.

Samsung does not owe you anything. There are plenty of people out there that like the glossy screen. There are plenty of companies that only make matte LCDs. In fact, they all do, except that Samsung has release ONE GLOSSY MODEL. It's the whining that people are getting sick of--they aren't trying to stifle honest debate. In addition, you are confusing the concept of feature and unintended problems or technological limitations. That may be annoying some people, as it's difficult to debate an opponent who doesn't understand the issues.
See above for comments in bold.

Yes, when I first heard of the glossy debacle, I was whining and complaining. But lately I have been discussing differences in the sets and just for even bringing up the subject people get indignant. That is not whining or complaining. If some find it difficult to debate, that becomes annoying, so that justifies some of the responses I have read? If that is the reason, would not it be better to attempt to educate or inform rather than insult?

[mark_1080p]

... burning out waiting for his holy grail panel ... Burned out :) :) :).

[mark_1080p]

I agree that it was smart to offer the glossy and the matte in the 46" size, but I question the smarts behind choosing glossy over matte in the 52" size. I want a quality LCD larger than 46" and my room is severely bright. I've got lots of good quality 50" and up plasma options, most at prices below a comparable size LCD price, but I can't find an LCD that I'm happy with at that size. The Samsung seems to have the edge right now in non-banded/clouded superior PQ for large LCD's, and I think they gave away some of that advantage by moving closer to the competitive plasma market segment instead of offering the large LCD with the matte surface where they'd be relatively "king of the hill." The anti-reflection of a matte surface is seen by many as an important advantage of LCD over plasma. If the 61 matte was offered in 52", I'd probably own one now.Absolutely right, and it (5261) was announced at CES. BTW, viewing the 4661 again today next to the Sharps, the matte effect on the 4661 is amazing. Compared to the 4661, even the Sharp d62 matte LCD looks glossy, amazing matte, great for well-lit room if 46" is the right size. Absorbs light like a sponge.

[Netjoy69]

I have read so many people complaining about the glossy screen on the 65 series and then I went and saw it for myself at Magnolia, and BB. I must say I was surprised by the fact that I was really impressed with this TV. I can understand the argument for not wanting the glare, but this is the first LCD where I felt like I was watching a really big flat CRT or what SED might look like. It has that CRT like glow to it. It was the first LCD that seemed to really give plasma a real run for it's money. There is absolutely no question that this added saturation and clarity comes with more glare than a matt screen, but in my world I think the pros out weigh the cons on this one.

Of course it is just one readers opinion.

I agree with your statement 100%. I was one of the first to report the "super glare panel" to you all, and since, I have visited local BrandsMart many times to view the 65 series. At first, the fact an LCD screen displays glare is a little shocking, but as you begin to focus on the picture rather than the glare, it is quiet obvious the Super Clear Panel is a remarkable innovation.

Glare aside, the improvement to picture clarity and saturation mentioned earlier can't be ignored and should be commended. If there currently existed a way to economically increase contrast, saturation, clarity and reduce glare, most plasma and LCD manufacturers would implement such technologies.

We did not dismiss Sony or Proton TV's due to glare when we purchased CRTs years ago. There brilliant colors and picture quality garner accolades even today. Let's give Samsung and the SCP a try on our own turf before we pass judgement- one thing is to see it in a showroom, the other your home. As I said earlier, we need more owner testimonials to make informed decisions.

One thing is certain; everyone that sees the 65 series agrees the image quality is remarkable. That alone may be worth a little glare!

[mark_1080p]

Called Samsung again just now.

1. No 71, 81 series until July.

2. 71 series will have new reflective coating.
Reflection will be LESS than 65 series, not matte though.

They are working on reducing reflection but keeping glossy coating !!

[Mr T]

I agree that it was smart to offer the glossy and the matte in the 46" size, but I question the smarts behind choosing glossy over matte in the 52" size. I want a quality LCD larger than 46" and my room is severely bright. I've got lots of good quality 50" and up plasma options, most at prices below a comparable size LCD price, but I can't find an LCD that I'm happy with at that size. The Samsung seems to have the edge right now in non-banded/clouded superior PQ for large LCD's, and I think they gave away some of that advantage by moving closer to the competitive plasma market segment instead of offering the large LCD with the matte surface where they'd be relatively "king of the hill." The anti-reflection of a matte surface is seen by many as an important advantage of LCD over plasma. If the 61 matte was offered in 52", I'd probably own one now.

Whether we like it or not, THIS YEAR, the break between volume purchases for LCD TVs and premium sizes is at 50", according to market data I saw recently (perhaps on here, I don't remember). 40-49" was volume, 50"+ was lower volume, premium SKUs.

So what does this mean? If you look at Samsung's numbering and positioning, the 61 series may be similar tech base to the 65 series, but they charge less for it and the glossy screen on the 65 is meant to provide a visual enhancement when used in the right situations. So, matte is mainstream, higher volume, lower cost option, while glossy is used in premium models. Hence, no 52" (or larger) matte versions because, from a marketing standpoint, it's considered in the premium category by it's size.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but just offering a possible explanation for what we are seeing from Samsung, even if we don't like the fact that there is no 5261F SKU anymore.

[Mr T]

Called Samsung again just now.

1. No 71, 81 series until July.

2. 71 series will have new reflective coating.
Reflection will be LESS than 65 series, not matte though.

They are working on reducing reflection but keeping glossy coating !!

Bummer - was hoping that 81 series in April rumour was going to live a little longer. I can wait till July to purchase, but would sure like to get some more details on price point and such on these TVs to determine whether they are worth me waiting.

[xb1032]

As one who went from several Microdisplays to a plasma I have never really considered an LCD due to inadequate black levels. I read up on CES info but didn't look at all at LCD info. I now have a Panny plasma and I much prefer the 3D look of a plasma over a microdisplay or an LCD.

However, I saw a 40" 66 series Samsung at BB the other day and was quite impressed. Black levels in the light looked very good. Though it wasn't next to the Panny I'd have to say black levels in light were MUCH better. The picture was quite bright (typical of LCD). And quite honestly all the other LCDs around looked flat next to it including the Samsung plasma.

These new LCDs have me intrigued and I will definitely be anticipating the release of the 81 series the most. I have controlled lighting so reflections are not an issue but I would have to think that due to the brightness of these LCDs alone that they would be able to overcome reflections more than any plasma out there right now.

[mark_1080p]

So, matte is mainstream, higher volume, lower cost option, while glossy is used in premium models. Hence, no 52" (or larger) matte versions because, from a marketing standpoint, it's considered in the premium category by it's size.Sammy CSR did indicate entire line (71, 81) will be glossy but I did not specifically ask on the sizing. We shall see.

[spincut]

Called Samsung again just now.

1. No 71, 81 series until July.

2. 71 series will have new reflective coating.
Reflection will be LESS than 65 series, not matte though.

They are working on reducing reflection but keeping glossy coating !!

well they did indeed change their story now, but even considering inconsistencies i'd be wondering more about this further reduced glare treatment and if there's anything to that.

and also why the 71's but not the 81's as well.

[Digitally challe]

I read that Samsung will be introducing a 61" LED later this year. I wonder if it is part of the 81 Series or will this be a new series????

[westa6969]

I read that Samsung will be introducing a 61" LED later this year. I wonder if it is part of the 81 Series or will this be a new series????
No, The only 61" LED from Samsung is the new DLP RPTV.

They will be releasing a 70" though but the final specs are unclear since it was announced last August but has not debuted yet. Instead Sony's 70" from the same shared plant has taken center stage at $33k MSRP and where is the owners thread on that one?. ;)

I suspect it may debut with the 81's but probably only through top level retailors as did their 57" last year with it's size, weight and price tag which is unknown for now. I'm seriously interested in this 70" myself. :)

[Digitally challe]

No, The only 61" LED from Samsung is the new DLP RPTV.

They will be releasing a 70" though but the final specs are unclear since it was announced last August but has not debuted yet. Instead Sony's 70" from the same shared plant has taken center stage at $33k MSRP and where is the owners thread on that one?. ;)

I suspect it may debut with the 81's but probably only through top level retailors as did their 57" last year with it's size, weight and price tag which is unknown for now. I'm seriously interested in this 70" myself. :)
Thank you Westa for your response.

[mark_1080p]

well they did indeed change their story now, but even considering inconsistencies i'd be wondering more about this further reduced glare treatment and if there's anything to that.

and also why the 71's but not the 81's as well.Yea, antireflection treatment for all glossies, according to this CSR, who did seem knowledgable, more so than the previous that stated April release for all (she did speak to her super though, so I thought that would have helped). The CSR who said July had a sheet full of release dates and he said it had been updated within a day or 2 of when I called.

[spincut]

Yea, antireflection treatment for all glossies, according to this CSR, who did seem knowledgable, more so than the previous that stated April release for all (she did speak to her super though, so I thought that would have helped). The CSR who said July had a sheet full of release dates and he said it had been updated within a day or 2 of when I called.

yes i know you just said that, i'm wondering though what else about the antireflective stuff, especially if they havent used it already in their current sets to the degree they plan to (and like i said, this guy having a different release date may not necesarily mean what he says is any mored reliable than the last about that or lesser reflections on the newer TV's).

[mark_1080p]

Yea, reminds me of the gunky roller banding theory, but wait, all the gunk was cleaned off and the Sharp banding has been fixed ... :D. Gunk ... more like Bunk.

[wallstreet123456]

Sorry if this was asked already but since about 90% of my channels are non HD how is the picture quality on these Samsung sets for NON HD content.

[komari]

Sorry if this was asked already but since about 90% of my channels are non HD how is the picture quality on these Samsung sets for NON HD content.
No none would be able to tell you since these sets are not out yet - this is the anticipation thread. There is an owners manual for the new 61/65/66 series here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=820218

[irkuck]

They will be releasing a 70" though but the final specs are unclear since it was announced last August but has not debuted yet. Instead Sony's 70" from the same shared plant has taken center stage at $33k MSRP and where is the owners thread on that one?. ;)

I'm seriously interested in this 70" myself. :)

There is no owner thread since the official release time is in May:p.

There could be YAAT (Yet Another Anticipation Thread) on the 70" Sony LCD but how many people are anticipating it with 33 grands ready to splurge? You are the one, where are the others?:D

[westa6969]

There is no owner thread since the official release time is in May:p.

There could be YAAT (Yet Another Anticipation Thread) on the 70" Sony LCD but how many people are anticipating it with 33 grands ready to splurge? You are the one, where are the others?:D
That 70" Sony has been carrying that Pre-order status for two months and all they've done is change the date further into the future each month.

No way you'll see me fork over that kind of money - my limit is about $8K on a TV having gotten my 57" for $6.5K six months ago.

[killashandra]

Is the samsung 70" supposed to be in the 81 series? I find it strange that it's supposed to be "released" in 1H 2007 which gives it about 2.5 months at this point and we have yet to see anyting about it anywhere except the same show picture. Not even a product model #. I'm really beginning to wonder if they will actually release it or perhaps push it back another year.

(I am really hoping they release it on time/schedule as I am really looking at picking it up if it's under $15k).

[westa6969]

I just by chance came across indirectly a PR announcement that the new Samsung Sony Partnered 8thgen LCD Plant will be finished a month early than planned. The problem or challenge is in identifying which panels are the 8th gen models? :)

Here's the link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6432287.html

[mike123abc]

I just by chance came across indirectly a PR announcement that the new Samsung Sony Partnered 8thgen LCD Plant will be finished a month early than planned. The problem or challenge is in identifying which panels are the 8th gen models? :)

Here's the link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6432287.html


I just hope that they can produce quality panels in the new plant and come up with a new problem like Sharp did with the banding issues from their 8th generation plant.

[Rexdiver]

It would seem christmas time for delivery of an 81 series by samsung at best :(


- rex

[SED <--- Rules]

It would seem christmas time for delivery of an 81 series by samsung at best :(


- rex

The Samsung 81 series should be coming out this July. I highly doubt they'll wait until Christmas to release it! The compeition (Sony, Pioneer) will release their new tvs this summer, so Samsung must as well! :confused:

[Rexdiver]

The article at twice.com above speaks of august start date for the 8th gen plant with a holiday receive date. Are the 81's being mfc'd in the 7 gen plant ?? I thought the 81's were starting in the 8th gen.. it wouldn't be the first time i was wrong :)


- Rex

[taurus2007]

Somebody has reported that the 81 series (and perhaps the 71 also) won't be out until October, just in time for the holiday season.

[01blacksnake]

Ugh... so many inconsistent dates in this thread!

[rbarg]

I went to Best Buy today to look at the 65 series w/the new glossy reflective screen. I just don't see the point. If you go to a movie theatre, the screen has a matte finish. Presumably you want the home experience to resemble the movie experience. The matte finish does not reflect light. It makes no sense to me why Samsung is intoducing this "innovation".

Obviously to make more money. It is now very hard to disinguish and compare Plasma and LCD sets. Maybe that was the idea - to confuse the consumer and make it easier for sales people to sell sets w/the highest margins.

Are any of the 65 series available in matte screen? The 71/81 series. If not I might be tempted to get the Sharp.

[mike123abc]

Are any of the 65 series available in matte screen? The 71/81 series. If not I might be tempted to get the Sharp.

The 61 is matte, go read the sharp threads before buying, people complain about banding a lot more than refections.

[rbarg]

The 61 is matte, go read the sharp threads before buying, people complain about banding a lot more than refections.

Right - I used to spend a lot of time on that thread. The banding on those sets is awful. One has to hope Samsung will release an 81 series panel in matte. The 4661 appears to have specs that are not as good as the 4665, ie. 10k vs 15k contrast ratio so its not a real choice. The 4661 is simply a 4696 w/out clouding issues from what I can see.

[jmanthey]

Actually I think the consensus over there is that the 4661 is the same as the 4665 but without reflections. It's the glossy screen that accounts for the spec difference. The actual LCD panel seems to be the same.

[spincut]

It would seem christmas time for delivery of an 81 series by samsung at best :(


- rex

people keep popping and making up their own delays, why chrismas now at best? what has happened since the July announcement posted here that has indicated any delay yet? i mean so far it seems slated for july/august and while people say they "heard somewhere" about something no one is really posting where they heard it from.

[bpmurr]

Actually I think the consensus over there is that the 4661 is the same as the 4665 but without reflections. It's the glossy screen that accounts for the spec difference. The actual LCD panel seems to be the same.

I took the back off of my 4661 and it's the same panel as the 4665. Just a slight model number difference to reflect the matte finish instead of glossy. Remember this Dymanic Contrast ratio is some number that somebody pulls out of the air.

[mark_1080p]

By chance, are you using Comcast Pace box?
Cannot control it with my Sammy remote.

[tonydeluce]

That 70" Sony has been carrying that Pre-order status for two months and all they've done is change the date further into the future each month.

No way you'll see me fork over that kind of money - my limit is about $8K on a TV having gotten my 57" for $6.5K six months ago.

Hi westa6969,

Our limits are about the same - if it is really breakthrough technology I may go
a couple grand more...

I think I have now narrowed down my selection between a large Samsung 81 series or the 60 inch Pioneer "super plasma"...

[Assayer]

I went to Best Buy today to look at the 65 series w/the new glossy reflective screen. I just don't see the point. If you go to a movie theatre, the screen has a matte finish. Presumably you want the home experience to resemble the movie experience. The matte finish does not reflect light. It makes no sense to me why Samsung is intoducing this "innovation".


Because some people don't like the look of the matte finish on a typical LCD screen when you shine a light on it with its diffusing effect. Personally, it pulls me out of the viewing experience and reminds me that i am looking at a piece of plastic. Many of us are accustomed to looking at CRTs or Plasmas with their glossy window-pane like look. It all comes down to what you are accustomed to. the glossy finish on the 65 series has a second benefit in that it better preserves the apparent blacks in the presence of ambient light. Yesterday I saw a 4665 and 4661 side-by-side at a Best Buy with typical bright store lighting. They looked identical for 90% of the material in their demo loop, but the blacks did look deeper on dark shots and blackout scenes with the 4665 due to the glossy coating. The bottom line is that Samsung has introduced this innovation because some consumers want it. If you don't, then vote with your wallet.

The 4661 is basically the same TV, other than the speaker placement and glossy screen. The quoted contrast ratio difference is due to performance in ambient light; you probably won't see any difference at all in a dark room.

[Rexdiver]

people keep popping and making up their own delays, why chrismas now at best? what has happened since the July announcement posted here that has indicated any delay yet? i mean so far it seems slated for july/august and while people say they "heard somewhere" about something no one is really posting where they heard it from.


Spin,

I was referencing the above post "...post above at twice.com...". It specifically states august start for mfc. I then asked if the '81 series are being made in that plant or the 7th gen???


And where in this thread was any **real and confirmed by samsung** realease date mentioned. We are all speculating on the given info.

I hope its sooner rather than later too :)

-rex

[sethk]

I just by chance came across indirectly a PR announcement that the new Samsung Sony Partnered 8thgen LCD Plant will be finished a month early than planned. The problem or challenge is in identifying which panels are the 8th gen models? :)

Here's the link:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6432287.html

Usually the new plants produce panels with completely different specs and driving electronics, so they're new models. I don't think there would be any difficulty identifying 8th gen panels - they're all new models.

[mark_1080p]

The quoted contrast ratio difference is due to performance in ambient light; you probably won't see any difference at all in a dark room.
The quoted contrast ratios must be dark room, they are far too high for ambient lit situations. The difference has to be the panel/coating itself.

[Irocku1]

From PC Magazine:

"PC Magazine reviewers noted an odd quirk with the SuperBlu; the player supports only the 24-Hz and 30-Hz frequencies of the 1080p format, not the most common 60-Hz signaling.This means that the player is incompatible with TVs from Sony, Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic -- and even LG, whose upcoming 2007 TV lineup will support the 24- and 30-Hz frequencies, but whose current lineup does not".

[Irocku1]

From PC Magazine:

"PC Magazine reviewers noted an odd quirk with the SuperBlu; the player supports only the 24-Hz and 30-Hz frequencies of the 1080p format, not the most common 60-Hz signaling.This means that the player is incompatible with TVs from Sony, Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic -- and even LG, whose upcoming 2007 TV lineup will support the 24- and 30-Hz frequencies, but whose current lineup does not".


What does this mean for the 65 series?

[ChuckZ]

Do we have any idea what the price might be? HDTVs in general are coming down in price and getting to be better featured displays.

I hope the alleged July launch date is still on as well.

[007craft]

Gonna add to the rumor mill here guys. My friends just came back from work at futureshop (sells tvs) and noticed a tech spec sheet left by samsung which mentioned samsungs LED TV. Now my friend is not as obsesed with the tvs like I am so he didnt get a model number or the full details down. He did call me tho to let me know that it was deffenitly the LED LCD tv from samsung (so it must be the 81 series). He also said that he was told its coming within 2-4 weeks.

Im going to be phoning him tomorrow at work and asking him to read me the model number and specs in detail. So the 81 series in april/may is still alive.

[taurus2007]

Scan the spec sheet and post it here! :D

[spincut]

Gonna add to the rumor mill here guys. My friends just came back from work at futureshop (sells tvs) and noticed a tech spec sheet left by samsung which mentioned samsungs LED TV. Now my friend is not as obsesed with the tvs like I am so he didnt get a model number or the full details down. He did call me tho to let me know that it was deffenitly the LED LCD tv from samsung (so it must be the 81 series). He also said that he was told its coming within 2-4 weeks.

Im going to be phoning him tomorrow at work and asking him to read me the model number and specs in detail. So the 81 series in april/may is still alive.

well you should really tell him to take a closer look at that, since i dont think 2-4 weeks sounds possible at all. Heck, i was pretty sure the july/august spec was the one official thing we had heard, and with still not much info on all the models and whatnot i find it doubtful it's coming earlier than that.

[SED <--- Rules]

I think I have now narrowed down my selection between a large Samsung 81 series or the 60 inch Pioneer "super plasma"...

I'm in the same boat as you Tony. I'll have to see for myself if the Sammy or the Pio have the best picture quality. I have to say that the new Sony's are also in my thoughts...but I don't know how they will compare to the sammy or pio in terms of black levels. Can someone tell me if the Sonys can compete with them? thanks! :)

[Assayer]

The quoted contrast ratios must be dark room, they are far too high for ambient lit situations. The difference has to be the panel/coating itself.

I understand the science of how contrast is measured Mark, and I am not insinuating that they are actually producing a 15000:1 ansi in the presence of ambient light, rather I am saying that I believe the 61 and 65 panels are identical other than the reflective coating and that the 15000:1 is a completely BS number from the marketing department to indicate that it is a better TV than the 61 for product differentiation purposes.

[ChuckZ]

well you should really tell him to take a closer look at that, since i dont think 2-4 weeks sounds possible at all. Heck, i was pretty sure the july/august spec was the one official thing we had heard, and with still not much info on all the models and whatnot i find it doubtful it's coming earlier than that.

Samsung must be shooting for the 1,2 punch!

[smaybee]

Gonna add to the rumor mill here guys. My friends just came back from work at futureshop (sells tvs) and noticed a tech spec sheet left by samsung which mentioned samsungs LED TV. Now my friend is not as obsesed with the tvs like I am so he didnt get a model number or the full details down. He did call me tho to let me know that it was deffenitly the LED LCD tv from samsung (so it must be the 81 series). He also said that he was told its coming within 2-4 weeks.

Im going to be phoning him tomorrow at work and asking him to read me the model number and specs in detail. So the 81 series in april/may is still alive.


Were you able to get any more details on this? On the edge of my seat here hoping for some new info on the 81 series.

[dogmandoo]

Were you able to get any more details on this? On the edge of my seat here hoping for some new info on the 81 series.

Wow, this is incredible because we (Canadians) usually get the good stuff after the States! But if FutureShop(Owned by BB) has it on there spec sheet and we add in some delays to the timeline, it might just be here by May/June!

[RLBURNSIDE]

I'm waiting for the 81, and if the black crush is there (hope not), I'll just buy a 24 inch widescreen monitor and...wait longer

reason I say this is that I checked out the 61 and 65 last week and it looked major black crushed. honestly, the sharps looked much better with the same material...heck, an lg plasma for under a grand looked much better.

Too many panels, too many defects, causing too many problems...and not much love to around.

[sti jaguar]

I've been reading this entire thread, and what the hell is Black Crush???

I was hoping to get the 65 series!!!

[lipcrkr]

Were you able to get any more details on this? On the edge of my seat here hoping for some new info on the 81 series.

I think what is really happening is the announcement is coming the first week in May during the "Expo" in NYC. The 81 series is still on line for August.

[RLBURNSIDE]

sti jag:

the hdtvtest.co.uk review in the other thread explains the reasons well. so even if the absolute black levels on the 61s/65s are the best out there, that's no real prize it seems to be:

"Looked promising, but a closer inspection revealed a deeper problem. Check out the following graph describing the displayed gamma at each percentage stimulus:

gamma-log

What this means is that the Samsung LE40M86BD has skewed gamma tracking: as the input signal level decreases, the image becomes darker than it should be (if you don't understand gamma, all you need to know is that the higher the gamma, the darker the picture); and at the other end as the signal level increases, the image becomes brighter than it should be.

As you can imagine this will have a negative impact on the picture, causing loss of both shadow detail (also known unofficially as "black crush" that – strictly speaking – should be reserved for description of inability to pass below-black data) and highlights (aka "near-white detail"). Ideally the gamma tracking should be as flat as possible throughout the whole stimulus range so that each input signal level generate the proportionate gamma-adjusted brightness intensity. For comparison, here are some examples of recent LCD TVs that do this well (and consequently preserve shadow detail):"

-----

in other words...to see any detail in dark scenes / areas of an image you need to pump up the gamma level to compensate, making the default black level irrelevent as it's unusable. if I were to buy the set, I'd have to run it very bright gamma, ruining the contrast in the process...kind of a waste of money, considering I could buy a cheap CR panel to achieve the same result. CR and absolute black levels paired with skewed gamma scale at the lower end of the spectrum that ruins black details is a catch-22 no-win situation:

i.e it *appears* to be a fundamental flaw of the set (that site is the most pro review site I've read, very scientific and thourough)

although if someone can properly pump up the curves manually using their computer inputs as processing stage, then I might still be interested. but...why would I buy such a set just to make myself frustrated like mark_1080p? I'm anal about these things too, considering I've already waited ten years to get an hdtv, I can wait another month or two.

But...go check out the sets yourself. also, the glare wouldn't even be the tiniest bit of an issue next to the black crush issue. I live/play in the darkness/blackness listening to techno and programming all the time, and though I hate glare with a passion, I think black crush is waaaaaay worse. I mean, at future shop I was thinking to myself...am I supposed to want to buy this? sorry, the answer is no.

[mark_1080p]

The 4661 is basically the same TV, other than the speaker placement and glossy screen. The quoted contrast ratio difference is due to performance in ambient light; you probably won't see any difference at all in a dark room.

I understand the science of how contrast is measured Mark, and I am not insinuating that they are actually producing a 15000:1 ansi in the presence of ambient light, rather I am saying that I believe the 61 and 65 panels are identical other than the reflective coating and that the 15000:1 is a completely BS number from the marketing department to indicate that it is a better TV than the 61 for product differentiation purposes.
You said the difference was due to ambient light. If that be true, than it must follow that you imply the CR includes ambient. Also, it is possible that the 15,000:1 is not BS, that you actually do get a different result in a dark room, but that the difference is due to scattering of light from inside the panel, not ambient.

Pleas explain further if I misinterpret your statements, my apologies if I have done so.

[lipcrkr]

sti jag:

the hdtvtest.co.uk review in the other thread explains the reasons well. so even if the absolute black levels on the 61s/65s are the best out there, that's no real prize it seems to be:

"Looked promising, but a closer inspection revealed a deeper problem. Check out the following graph describing the displayed gamma at each percentage stimulus:

gamma-log

What this means is that the Samsung LE40M86BD has skewed gamma tracking: as the input signal level decreases, the image becomes darker than it should be (if you don't understand gamma, all you need to know is that the higher the gamma, the darker the picture); and at the other end as the signal level increases, the image becomes brighter than it should be.

As you can imagine this will have a negative impact on the picture, causing loss of both shadow detail (also known unofficially as "black crush" that – strictly speaking – should be reserved for description of inability to pass below-black data) and highlights (aka "near-white detail"). Ideally the gamma tracking should be as flat as possible throughout the whole stimulus range so that each input signal level generate the proportionate gamma-adjusted brightness intensity. For comparison, here are some examples of recent LCD TVs that do this well (and consequently preserve shadow detail):"

-----

in other words...to see any detail in dark scenes / areas of an image you need to pump up the gamma level to compensate, making the default black level irrelevent as it's unusable. if I were to buy the set, I'd have to run it very bright gamma, ruining the contrast in the process...kind of a waste of money, considering I could buy a cheap CR panel to achieve the same result. CR and absolute black levels paired with skewed gamma scale at the lower end of the spectrum that ruins black details is a catch-22 no-win situation:

i.e it *appears* to be a fundamental flaw of the set (that site is the most pro review site I've read, very scientific and thourough)

although if someone can properly pump up the curves manually using their computer inputs as processing stage, then I might still be interested. but...why would I buy such a set just to make myself frustrated like mark_1080p? I'm anal about these things too, considering I've already waited ten years to get an hdtv, I can wait another month or two.

But...go check out the sets yourself. also, the glare wouldn't even be the tiniest bit of an issue next to the black crush issue. I live/play in the darkness/blackness listening to techno and programming all the time, and though I hate glare with a passion, I think black crush is waaaaaay worse. I mean, at future shop I was thinking to myself...am I supposed to want to buy this? sorry, the answer is no.

Thank you. I have been harping on this issue ever since i saw these in person about the black crush and how Samsung screwed up the calibration process not being in sync. Mark and i have been getting hammered by people complaining that we keep mentioning the same thing over and over. Especially me because i'm a non owner so i must be a Sharp plant or belong to al Quada.

[007craft]

Were you able to get any more details on this? On the edge of my seat here hoping for some new info on the 81 series.

sorry guys, I had a school project to do and it completely slipped my mind. Ill see If I can remember tomorrow, and hopefully hes working.

[dogmandoo]

sorry guys, I had a school project to do and it completely slipped my mind. Ill see If I can remember tomorrow, and hopefully hes working.

please pretty please!
we are all counting on you....

Thanks

[westa6969]

I think what is really happening is the announcement is coming the first week in May during the "Expo" in NYC. The 81 series is still on line for August.
The new Samsung/Sony plant was completed very early due to better weather than anticipated and so they may make it to market sooner if in fact the 81 is being produced at the new shared plant they've just finished. Considering the 57" Samsung reaches it's first anniversary at the end of June it's update should be at about the same time also.

One can hope to see if the LED can deliver on wider color gamut and blacks without crush - an SXRD level of shadow details in an LCD Flat panel would be my goal. ;)

Should be an exciting next 6 months between the 81 series, Sony's newest offerings and the Pio Super Plasma and if it can deliver it's blacks without crush as we already know Pio has the best of class processing but can it deliver on shadow details and is their definition of new anti-glare fact or fiction. Sometimes CES is a bitch - all the anticipation and waiting that runs 6-12 months.

Despite the new criticisms of the Samsungs I feel they are a step forward when I've viewed them they's been at the top three panels in the store but never to a point where I would pull my wallet out and buy it since it's hard to WoW you with a 46" when your already viewing a 57"- the panel is very good and an advancement in many respects but with still more to go which I suspect the 71/81 will address otherwise why bother? Samsung simply creates another tier and profit margin many will pay for those added features to take LCD to the next level (we can hope). Interesting how silent Sony has been on their next gen XBR's and I hardly think they are sitting still and will let itself be leapfrogged by it's competition and rely on Branding alone, but of course one will pay a price to go there but they best not be cloudy! ;)

Hey Lipcrkr? I believe you were at the LA HT CE Show in June 2006. What happened? Did it not do well or is it simply rotating to NY? All the hype and I see nothing for this year and that NY show has historically had it's focus in Audio with low turnout in TV Manufacturers unless new announcements are planned. Why no repeat of the LA Show from last year where Sony used as a platform?

[Idjiit]

reason I say this is that I checked out the 61 and 65 last week and it looked major black crushed. honestly, the sharps looked much better with the same material...heck, an lg plasma for under a grand looked much better.

The 61/65 series has an amazing range of adjustibility. Blacks definitely get crushed with the (as usual, ******) Samsung defaults but a bit of tweaking and the sets can have a great, snappy well-balanced image.

[007craft]

please pretty please!
we are all counting on you....

Thanks

hmm, turns out hes not working until thursday. But whats a little more wait anyway? If the tvs do indeed come in july, we are in for a long wait,.

[valoidr]

Thank you. I have been harping on this issue ever since i saw these in person about the black crush and how Samsung screwed up the calibration process not being in sync. Mark and i have been getting hammered by people complaining that we keep mentioning the same thing over and over. Especially me because i'm a non owner so i must be a Sharp plant or belong to al Quada. am in the same camp also

a.k.a. Mudslinger :D

[Kickoa1]

Is there any other TV's with HDMI 1.3 except 65 series which I own.

I keep losing signal with my PS3 over HDMI.

Do the 71 and 81 have a big difference or is there any news about them yet?

[007craft]

I heard the PS3 has alot of problems with HDCP on many Tvs. Best solution is to sell your ps3 while you can and buy a stand alone blu-ray player. If your into the ps3 for gaming, its time to see what that 360 everyone is talking about really does :)

[Assayer]

You said the difference was due to ambient light.

Pleas explain further if I misinterpret your statements, my apologies if I have done so.

You are right, I was inconsistent in my terminology. I don't want to belabor the point as this thread is about the 81s anyway.

[Kickoa1]

I heard the PS3 has alot of problems with HDCP on many Tvs. Best solution is to sell your ps3 while you can and buy a stand alone blu-ray player. If your into the ps3 for gaming, its time to see what that 360 everyone is talking about really does :)

The 360 has no franchises when it comes to games, they only have Halo which is respected and Gears of war.

There wont be no winner until five years pass. PS3 is suppose to last 10yrs while 360 5yrs.

Well back to HDTV world I keep hearing the 71, 81 will come out:
April/may-I don't believe
July
August

I just want an HDTV with HDMI 1.3.

[lipcrkr]

The new Samsung/Sony plant was completed very early due to better weather than anticipated and so they may make it to market sooner if in fact the 81 is being produced at the new shared plant they've just finished. Considering the 57" Samsung reaches it's first anniversary at the end of June it's update should be at about the same time also.

One can hope to see if the LED can deliver on wider color gamut and blacks without crush - an SXRD level of shadow details in an LCD Flat panel would be my goal. ;)

Should be an exciting next 6 months between the 81 series, Sony's newest offerings and the Pio Super Plasma and if it can deliver it's blacks without crush as we already know Pio has the best of class processing but can it deliver on shadow details and is their definition of new anti-glare fact or fiction. Sometimes CES is a bitch - all the anticipation and waiting that runs 6-12 months.

Despite the new criticisms of the Samsungs I feel they are a step forward when I've viewed them they's been at the top three panels in the store but never to a point where I would pull my wallet out and buy it since it's hard to WoW you with a 46" when your already viewing a 57"- the panel is very good and an advancement in many respects but with still more to go which I suspect the 71/81 will address otherwise why bother? Samsung simply creates another tier and profit margin many will pay for those added features to take LCD to the next level (we can hope). Interesting how silent Sony has been on their next gen XBR's and I hardly think they are sitting still and will let itself be leapfrogged by it's competition and rely on Branding alone, but of course one will pay a price to go there but they best not be cloudy! ;)

Hey Lipcrkr? I believe you were at the LA HT CE Show in June 2006. What happened? Did it not do well or is it simply rotating to NY? All the hype and I see nothing for this year and that NY show has historically had it's focus in Audio with low turnout in TV Manufacturers unless new announcements are planned. Why no repeat of the LA Show from last year where Sony used as a platform?

Yeah, i'd be going to the show if it was here in LA. What i heard was the show did great but contractually it had to go back to NYC. But last years show only had Sony and HP as far as video, i think Sony is off the radar this year because their new models are similar to last years. Last year they introduced the A2000, XBR2 SXRD, and the new LCD panels. I'm waiting to hear more about the Toshiba LX177 and the Sammy 71 series. If only the Sammy 5265 didn't crush blacks i'd be all set, but you're right, the shadow detail on the SXRD is tops. I just can't stand SSE though on RPTV's.

[Daniel Tonks]

I must be the odd man out... I have my PS3 hooked up HDMI to a Marantz SR9600 receiver (for uncompressed L-PCM audio), which is in turn hooked up HDMI->DVI/HDCP on my 4+ year-old Sony KF-60XBR800, and the PS3 has been utterly reliable. No HDCP negotiation issues or black screen flashes or anything like that...

Looking to replace the Sony with a 57" LCD, which I would hope would have a more reliable HDCP implementation than a first generation model! :-)

[dogmandoo]

hmm, turns out hes not working until thursday. But whats a little more wait anyway? If the tvs do indeed come in july, we are in for a long wait,.
REad this!

http://www.about-electronics.eu/200...lcd-production/

For those that are too lazy, here is an excerpt

S-