Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread

[irkuck]

The key word here is "potential". Anything is "potentially" possible. Earth could potentially be struck by meteor today or I can potentially have a winning lottery ticket in my pocket. 81s can potentially offer the best PQ ever. On the other hand, LD can potentially introduce its own artifacts. Let's wait for people to lay their eyes on the actual display before pointing out potential problems that may not even exist. 3-4 months from now, we'll know everything.

If I would be rambling like the other LD evangelists here I would be preaching "LED LD is the first technology bringing heaven to earth with ghosts and aureolas flying on the glass which is direct proof the second coming is coming soon and will be seen in full HD LD glory".

But what I am saying is that there is 'potential' for LD artefacts and I am also willingly saying that there is potential for LED LD to become a real breakthrough. But I will not submit to baseless LD evangelizing.

[irkuck]

according to a Samsung rep that was at the Grand Opening of the Fry's store in Roseville CA. this last weekend. Also he mentioned that the 81 series LED array would be divided into 64 sections for separate control on dimming. Hmmmm, I wonder if you will be able to see darker/lighter blocks on the screen. I can see a whole new set of problems for this new technology. But that isn't anything new for any new technology.


64 dimming sections sounds much too low to be of any practical value. LED BL panels have several thousands LED blocks and one should expect each of them individually controlled. It is obvious that the lower number of dimming sections the greater is the danger of artefacts and less useful is LD. Except hype where the opposite is true:D

[xvYCC]

Also he mentioned that the 81 series LED array would be divided into 64 sections for separate control on dimming. Hmmmm, I wonder if you will be able to see darker/lighter blocks on the screen. I can see a whole new set of problems for this new technology. But that isn't anything new for any new technology.
.

In a local dimmed led array all leds are individually modulated. 64 sections would mean area dimmed led array. Technologies like philips clearlcd have only a few areas that can be controlled. As everybody knows that 81 series is a local dimmed set, this guy didn't know what he was talking about.

[AceBates]

Also he mentioned that the 81 series LED array would be divided into 64 sections for separate control on dimming. Hmmmm, I wonder if you will be able to see darker/lighter blocks on the screen. I can see a whole new set of problems for this new technology. But that isn't anything new for any new technology.


IF they happened to split it into 64 regions, it's most likely split into 64 subprocessing regions, in which each section controls the LEDs local to that region. If that were the case it might help provide more processing power when detail is needed. However, I'd bank more on the fact that he's just wrong.

[Mr T]

In a local dimmed led array all leds are individually modulated. 64 sections would mean area dimmed led array. Technologies like philips clearlcd have only a few areas that can be controlled. As everybody knows that 81 series is a local dimmed set, this guy didn't know what he was talking about.

Or he could be right and you speculators could be wrong.

I hope you are correct, but if at least some of the info that came from this Samsung rep is true, looks like I should just go ahead and pull the trigger now on a TV, because I'm not buying a low volume, super premium priced TV later this year. Now, if Sharp's "fix" for banding in their K2 plant actually starts showing up in product at stores, I'll get off the waiting game for the right TV and become an owner.

[xb1032]

LOL

Obviously most people have never even seen the 81 series in action. They have seen only a couple of screenshots, specs, blah, blah, blah but most (including you) don't know how much of a HUGE difference LED BL makes. Some people who have seen it (necrolop for ex.) have been extremely impressed. I have been reading constantly about the new technology and from what I read, and I am super hyped. Yes, there is only one thread about this tv, but I can assure you the hype will grow trumendously when they come out in stores and people see it for themselves.

The "first time seeing HD" was xvYCC's quote and he may very well be right. Only time will tell. All I can say is that the changes from the previous generation tvs will be dramatic. When the black levels are true black, and the whites are true white, it makes every other color reproduced almost exactly as in real life and will make it pop out of the screen, making a almost three-dimentional picture. LED technology makes true blacks and whites.

Oh and another thing, I'm not wishfully thinking. This tv is the real deal. I'll be the guy saying "I told you so" to everyone who didn't think these tvs will be amazing.

Both you and xvYCC really have your hopes up about this TV. I'll believe it when I see it. I do think the 65 series looks nice (even though with the default picture settings at BB it has black crush) with the tinted glossy screen so I do expect the 81 series to look good but we'll have to see if it's all that.

I've heard so much hype on this board about up and coming TVs from people with "inside information" with comments about the SXRD having blacks so black that in the dark you can't tell the TV is on from the current Mitsubishi line being "plasma-like" and putting the SXRD to shame (which is non-sense) that I don't believe half of what's posted on this board until I see it with my own eyes. I do feel that the new Samsung line and the new Pioneers will up the ante in picture quality and the release of those TVs can't come soon enough. I do prefer a plasma-like picture over an LCD but I'm pretty sure it's because I think a glossy screen gives the image a more 3D look and has more pop over a matte screen. The new Sammys will have have the glossy screen so I could care less with what technology either TV is just give me the best picture and I'm set. I just wish they made a bigger set than a 57"er.

[SED <--- Rules]

Both you and xvYCC really have your hopes up about this TV. I'll believe it when I see it. I do think the 65 series looks nice (even though with the default picture settings at BB it has black crush) with the tinted glossy screen so I do expect the 81 series to look good but we'll have to see if it's all that.

I've heard so much hype on this board about up and coming TVs from people with "inside information" with comments about the SXRD having blacks so black that in the dark you can't tell the TV is on from the current Mitsubishi line being "plasma-like" and putting the SXRD to shame (which is non-sense) that I don't believe half of what's posted on this board until I see it with my own eyes. I do feel that the new Samsung line and the new Pioneers will up the ante in picture quality and the release of those TVs can't come soon enough. I do prefer a plasma-like picture over an LCD but I'm pretty sure it's because I think a glossy screen gives the image a more 3D look and has more pop over a matte screen. The new Sammys will have have the glossy screen so I could care less with what technology either TV is just give me the best picture and I'm set. I just wish they made a bigger set than a 57"er.

I understand what you are saying xb1032. I am very excited about both the new Samsung 81s and the 8G Pios, but until I see them for myself i'm just speculating on how good they will be. Judging from all the info on the new technology, i am optimistic. However, when I do see them I might be impressed or i might be underwhelmed. You never know. I'm really hoping they'll be as good as I think (especially the Samsung 81s). Oh and I'll actually be happy with a 52' set. :)

[rbarg]

"The 71 & 81 series should come out in a couple of months/Summer time frame according to a Samsung rep that was at the Grand Opening of the Fry's store in Roseville CA. this last weekend.

And he mentioned the prices would be more than he could afford and the 81 series would be made in limited quantities because it will be a high end, low volume product to begin with. The average consumer won't be buying it"

We don't know about the Samsung reps' monthly budget and/or income and we don't know what the rep means by "average person" :confused: . The median is not the message :) .

The 65F series has street prices of $3,400 and $2,400 for the 52" and 46" respectively, using Amazon.com as a yardstrick. MSRP means nothing and the vendors Amazon lists are usually middle tier on pricing. My best guess is a $1,000 premium for the local LED backlit sets, $1,500 at most. The prices will drop fast as LG starts releasing its sets and Sony continues to move product into the retail channel. Price erosion is fairly rapid in the sale of flat panelt LCDs.

I would be interested in hearing other predictions.

[007craft]

http://www.samsung.ca/promotion/07/techtrain/eng/index.html

Im going there on monday. Ill be sure to ask plenty about the 71 and 81 series. Any specific questions I should ask?

I highly doubt they will have one for display but they might seeing as when I went to the samsung training last year, they had the lns5296 on display 4 months before it was released

[smaybee]

http://www.samsung.ca/promotion/07/techtrain/eng/index.html

Im going there on monday. Ill be sure to ask plenty about the 71 and 81 series. Any specific questions I should ask?

I highly doubt they will have one for display but they might seeing as when I went to the samsung training last year, they had the lns5296 on display 4 months before it was released


Sure, exactly when and how much? ;) and of course the full set of specs, all for the 81 series, I don't find the 71 series too interesting since it doesn't have any interesting new technology in it.

[SED <--- Rules]

http://www.samsung.ca/promotion/07/techtrain/eng/index.html

Im going there on monday. Ill be sure to ask plenty about the 71 and 81 series. Any specific questions I should ask?


Thats awesome!

Yeah you can ask if the Samsung 81s have 24 fps support for smoother movie playback, what the prices are (of course :rolleyes: ), when will they be available, and if they can confirm all the specs on the first page of this thread.

I would bring a digital camera there just in case they show the 81s. I would love some pictures! Thanks! :)

[bjarmon]

We don't know about the Samsung reps' monthly budget and/or income and we don't know what the rep means by "average person" :confused: . The median is not the message :) .

The 65F series has street prices of $3,400 and $2,400 for the 52" and 46" respectively, using Amazon as a yardstrick. MSRP means nothing and the vendors Amazon lists are usually middle tier on pricing. My best guess is a $1,000 premium for the local LED backlit sets, $1,500 at most. The prices will drop fast as LG starts releasing its sets and Sony continues to move product into the retail channel. Price erosion is fairly rapid in the sale of flat panelt LCDs.

I would be interested in hearing other predictions.

I am guessing that the Samsung guys knows his competition and their pricing, and if he say the average person wouldn't be buying, im guessing that the 71 and 81 series will run between $4500 - $6000 at your standard B&M store. Just in comparison the 52' Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR2 sells for $5,000 at Bestbuy. Again this is a complete guess and not based off of anything concrete from the manufacturer.

[totaltoanage]

Samsung is though on prices but i think they have better quality

[SED <--- Rules]

Can someone confirm that the Samsung 81 series will have 120hz refresh rates? There has been some contradicting stuff from Twice magazine. They didn't mention anything about 120hz on the 81s. This could be a mistake. Samsung needs to send an updated official spec list on them. It would be sad and stupid if 120hz is not included in the 81s, but is included in the 71s. If that is true, then I would be pissed off... :confused:

Here (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6405104.html) is the Twice article.

[AceBates]

Can someone confirm that the Samsung 81 series will have 120hz refresh rates? There has been some contradicting stuff from Twice magazine. They didn't mention anything about 120hz on the 81s. This could be a mistake. Samsung needs to send an updated official spec list on them. It would be sad and stupid if 120hz is not included in the 81s, but is included in the 71s. If that is true, then I would be pissed off... :confused: .

I didn't see anything in there that showed the 81 series was going to have 120Hz processing. Although, it's been said many times before in this thread that you might not actually need the 120Hz processing as the localized dimming could theoreticaly get rid of motion blur. Processing power required for localized dimming AND 120Hz processing could have been too much to push into a new TV, especially one coming out of a new plant.

Why get so upset over it? From what I've commonly read, you can't see or tell much difference on current sets that have 120Hz processing, although the direct pull down is a nice feature.

[SED <--- Rules]

Although, it's been said many times before in this thread that you might not actually need the 120Hz processing as the localized dimming could theoreticaly get rid of motion blur.


Actually, your right LOL. :D

Local dimming should get rid of motion blur or at least somewhat get rid of it. I forgot about that. I play games a lot and the motion blurring is really annoying thats why I was surprised about no 120hz on the 81s. But, like you said local dimming should fix the issue and if that is the case, I could enjoy games and fast moving action movies with no problem. Thanks for the answer :)

[spincut]

the 71's release is directly related to the 81's right? since when i have to buy in mid summer i may have to compromise (although the whole point of my wanting the 81 was because it will definetly not have clouds).

I also wonder how much cheaper the 71's will be over the 81's (i'm mainly looking at the 40" though so it would be the cheapest one i imagine).

also, is the 61/65's at all beter than the older 96d's? or is it just pretty much the same TV with a new chassis (and with the 65's case the semi-tinted-whatever glossy one).

[vtms]

the 71's release is directly related to the 81's right?
No. 81 series is a completely different animal.

[vtms]

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6436530.html
Jonas Tanenbaum, Samsung’s flat-panel display marketing VP, said the two additional 1080p LCD TVs series coming later this year will each include the 40-inch, 46-inch, 52-inch and 57-inch screen sizes.

One series will feature Samsung’s 120Hz technology and the second will feature LED backlighting, both of which will substantially eliminate motion blurring artifacts. The LED line will offer limited distribution, he said.

[SED <--- Rules]

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6436530.html

Hmmm.... Ok the LEDs should get rid of motion blur...that is understood by me now. Now what does "limited distribution" mean to us consumers? What, we'll have to look very hard to find the 81s? Especially the 52's and 57's ? Or maybe it means that we have to pay a high premium?....

[spincut]

No. 81 series is a completely different animal.

i wasnt asking about animals or their differences, i was asking about it's RELEASE, and if it's RELEASE was at all linked to the 81 (as they seem to be often brought up together so one would presume they are getting released at the same time and not with the 71's coming sooner like the 60's did).

[vtms]

i wasnt asking about animals or their differences, i was asking about it's RELEASE, and if it's RELEASE was at all linked to the 81 (as they seem to be often brought up together so one would presume they are getting released at the same time and not with the 71's coming sooner like the 60's did).
Yes, I misread your post and don't know the answer to your question.

[datatwo]

This is probably unknown; but, I would appreciate a best guess. The 4665 is 46.3" wide because it has that goofy clear plastic strip on each side (a la Sony)! The 4661 is 43.5" w/o the 'strip' I have a 46" clear space in my custom AV cabinet.

I was told by my contact at Magnolia that the 81's would be available in July for "around $4,300". If it has the plastic 'crap' strip; I'll buy a mid-year (and hopefully 'band-free' Sharp D92).

Thanks

[wtr_wkr]

...I play games a lot and the motion blurring is really annoying...
There are two different ways to deal with motion blur - blank frame insertion and motion interpolation. Page 1 of this thread has a link to an article about testing of the Sammy LE4073BD re 100hz processing. http://www.behardware.com/articles/641-1/1rst-lcd-at-100-hz-the-death-of-afterglow.html

For example: "Our conclusion from tests, most of all our impression from games, is unanimous : 100 Hz rendering is much better than 50 Hz." Sharp's 61s do BFI. Strobing LED BLU should be like BFI - not motion interpolation.

And, thumbs up for sports but down for movies."Finally, a real progress in games. Three cheers for 100Hz! We just have to point out that the miracle isn´t yet complete as movie rendering didn´t quite convince us. Fluidity and sharpness were ironically a little too much and it didn’t seem like a natural rendering. Too bad this system was implemented on a TV. For movies none of us liked it, however, 100 Hz rendering in games, sporting events and even TV shows was good."

[mark_1080p]

Given Samsung's current offerings (e.g. lack of the 5261) I wonder if we will see cancellations in the 71 and 81 line, particularly the 81.

Watching the 4661, I must say that one of the annoyances is the lack of deep blacks in large areas of the screen in dark material, and the pillarbars as well. My thoughts on local dimming (new and old ideas) is that:

1. Local dimming will cover up panel backlight uniformity issues such as Mura. This is a great thing, the reports of problems with the 61 and 65 series are rolling in now, there are backlight issues, though not as prevalent as with previous generations.

2. Local dimming will render those pillarbars as deep black. This actually does cause an annoyance when viewing good SD in a dark setting. Glowing pillarbars degrade the experience with good SD such as classic DVD.

3. Local dimming will work best exactly where we need it. We do not need local dimming in very small patches of black, they already appear black enough on 61, 65 series and the Sharp d92, 62 series. It will not work very well in small areas of black anyway unless you would have 1:1 pixel for LED, which is really OLED territory. A small patch of black near brighter regions is not the problem. The problem is with larger area patches of black. That is where local dimming will excel, and exactly where it is needed. So my hope is that the dimming algorithm is robust.

One point of interest is the nature of the diffuser in the BLU. For local dimming, you do not want a perfect diffuser nor do you want no diffusion of light from the LED's, but rather just enough to allow local control of the backlight while maintaining smooth transitions.

I have reserved some funds for this series, as I slide by with my 2.3K 4661. Now if Sammy can just straighten out its response function ...

[SED <--- Rules]

I was told by my contact at Magnolia that the 81's would be available in July for "around $4,300".
Thanks

What size is your contact talking about here? 40, 46, 52, or 57 inches? I would definatley consider the 57' if it was "around $4,300". :D

[SED <--- Rules]

Given Samsung's current offerings (e.g. lack of the 5261) I wonder if we will see cancellations in the 71 and 81 line, particularly the 81.


Cancellations? I really really hope not! :eek:

Ever since I heard about the 81 series I wanted to get it....

Local dimming should make the Sammy LCDs a tour de force in picture quality!

[spincut]

What size is your contact talking about here? 40, 46, 52, or 57 inches? I would definatley consider the 57' if it was "around $4,300". :D

yeah size is rather important when slaying stuff like that, because i have my eye on a 40" 81 mainly so i can get a cloud free set, and i'm pretty doubtful to pay 4300 for that size.

[Mr T]

yeah size is rather important when slaying stuff like that, because i have my eye on a 40" 81 mainly so i can get a cloud free set, and i'm pretty doubtful to pay 4300 for that size.

A guess, but I would suspect that IF this info is credible, it applies to either the 40" or, best case, the 46", since that pricing would not be much of a premium for a 50"+ TV, and it is likely he either gave lowest pricing he heard or targeted pricing, since the person asking wants a 46".

[Emonroe]

I think what it's going to come down to with most people is price alone. Given Samsung's strategy so far this year (offerring better TV's for less money than the 2006 models), I am tempted to believe that upon introduction the 71 series, they would take the place of the 65F in terms of price point and drive the 61-66F's down in price to the 1700-2200 range for 40" and 46" respectively. Probably looking at a 2500 40" and a 3k 46" with the 81 series possibly holding a 3700 40" and 4k+ 46" price point. Anybody agree? Or am I way off...

If July is indeed how long I have to wait...I will gladly wait for the 120hz 71 series. I'm just not ready for LED, I want perfected LCD...with all the issues that TV's are having these days I just can't afford to be a new technology adopter.

[Mr T]

I think what it's going to come down to with most people is price alone. Given Samsung's strategy so far this year (offerring better TV's for less money than the 2006 models), I am tempted to believe that upon introduction the 71 series, they would take the place of the 65F in terms of price point and drive the 61-66F's down in price to the 1700-2200 range for 40" and 46" respectively. Probably looking at a 2500 40" and a 3k 46" with the 81 series possibly holding a 3700 40" and 4k+ 46" price point. Anybody agree? Or am I way off...

If July is indeed how long I have to wait...I will gladly wait for the 120hz 71 series. I'm just not ready for LED, I want perfected LCD...with all the issues that TV's are having these days I just can't afford to be a new technology adopter.

I think you are making stuff up and are way off. If the other info from the Magnolia guy is true (not saying it is, but IF), then you are definitely way off. Factor in that there is public announcement now that 81 series will be a limited release - which suggests that it will be costly - and I think you are dreaming.

Sorry, just think all the cheerleading and speculation here is pretty silly. Reports from people in the channel (whether right or wrong) is one thing; just making up pricing strategies has no credibility. Neither do all the comments about the "fact" that this TV will kick ass. We don't even have specs yet. I am as interested as anyone here to see if this TV performs - the promise of locally dimmed LED is exciting. But some of you guys are going overboard big time at this stage.

[Emonroe]

I think you are making stuff up and are way off. If the other info from the Magnolia guy is true (not saying it is, but IF), then you are definitely way off. Factor in that there is public announcement now that 81 series will be a limited release - which suggests that it will be costly - and I think you are dreaming.

Sorry, just think all the cheerleading and speculation here is pretty silly. Reports from people in the channel (whether right or wrong) is one thing; just making up pricing strategies has no credibility. Neither do all the comments about the "fact" that this TV will kick ass. We don't even have specs yet. I am as interested as anyone here to see if this TV performs - the promise of locally dimmed LED is exciting. But some of you guys are going overboard big time at this stage.

Did you not read the part where I said I was TEMPTED to believe? And how can you deny my logic? The 4696D was a $3000 TV not too long ago, I can get the 4665F for 2500 right now if I want and its been out for a month.

[irkuck]

Ever since I heard about the 81 series I wanted to get it....


You have not seen the picture and you want to get it? They call it consumers hooked on marketing hypes.


Local dimming should make the Sammy LCDs a tour de force in picture quality!

Maybe, maybe not. Sammy will have later this year two lines of glass, one with LED LD and another one with extended color CCFL and 120Hz. For those who are looking for real PQ distilled off marketing hype there will be ample opportunity to evaluate them with their own eyes. They will judge positives like CR and will hunt for artefacts like ghosts, aureolas and lack of shadow detail to form their final opinion.

[SED <--- Rules]

You have not seen the picture and you want to get it? They call it consumers hooked on marketing hypes.

Maybe, maybe not. Sammy will have later this year two lines of glass, one with LED LD and another one with extended color CCFL and 120Hz. For those who are looking for real PQ distilled off marketing hype there will be ample opportunity to evaluate them with their own eyes. They will judge positives like CR and will hunt for artefacts like ghosts, aureolas and lack of shadow detail to form their final opinion.

Ok, I'll say it again...

All I am is excited about the new LED technology. Whats wrong with that? I do want to get the 81 Series ONLY after I have comparied it to all the upcoming tvs. I might be underwhelmed by the picture and not be satisfied at all. Maybe the other tvs (71 series, Pios, Sonys) will be better in my eyes. Maybe. :rolleyes: We will see. Oh and this an anticipation thread, meaning I can boast about them all day If I want! :D

[taurus2007]

Oh and this an anticipation thread, meaning I can boast about them all day If I want! :D

Just remember the higher you go, the harder you would fall. ;)

[vtms]

The first evidence of how good PQ is with local dimming should be that LG.Phillips 47-inch 1:1 000 000 CR LCD that was scheduled to be released in Q2. Unfortunately, it's still MIA. If its release doesn't get delayed I wonder when LG makes formal announcement. Hopefully soon.

[tower101]

Well if its only 4 or 5 times better then forget it LOL

[791]

Hey guys, I'm interested in waiting for the 81 series but I'm concerned about the reliability of all of those LED's. Has anyone here owned an led based tv before and can speak on how well it's lasted?

[SED <--- Rules]

Hey guys, I'm interested in waiting for the 81 series but I'm concerned about the reliability of all of those LED's. Has anyone here owned an led based tv before and can speak on how well it's lasted?

I sure don't know anyone who has owned an LED based tv, but all I can say is that you should wait until some people have hands on experience with them when they come out. If people start complaining that they have a lot of problems or the picture is not up to par, then I suggest you look at something else. Basically, you would have to wait a bit more after they come out for reviews on the tv and also see them for yourself at stores. Then you could make your decision. I will probably do that.

Personally, I think Samsung knows what they are doing and they will probably not make a high end tv with all sorts of reliability problems. They wouldn't invest so much money on a problem-ridden set. Of course, there is nothing wrong with being cautious.

Right now, I'm patiently waiting until the 81 series come out.......

[SED <--- Rules]

Actually it goes further back. The first local dimming LG would be 25000:1 rated 47LB1DRB shown at CES 2006. Those all have infinite contrast, but in typical scenes ansi contrast will be only four to five times larger than what 8G pioneer can provide. This will improve every year though.

Four or five times better ansi contrast than the 8G Pios? And this was a whole year ago? What about now? LOL

Seriously, the ansi contrast will be killer on the 81s....absolutley killer :D

[jotaro]

Forgive me for being out of the loop but is the 81 series the top tier model for samsung?

Could anyone be so kind to list down the full model that Samsung plan on releasing for year 2007?

[Shayne2]

Forgive me for being out of the loop but is the 81 series the top tier model for samsung?

Could anyone be so kind to list down the full model that Samsung plan on releasing for year 2007?
Good: "industry-leading value"
61F series CCFL BLU, 10k CR, regular audio, bottom speakers

Better: "clearest, brightest LCD picture on the market today"
65F series CCFL BLU, 15k CR, premium audio, side speakers
66F series CCFL BLU, 15k CR, premium audio, bottom speakers

Best: (not yet on webpage)
81D series LED local dimming BLU, 50k CR, 105% gamut, Bluetooth
71D series CCFL BLU, 120Hz, Bluetooth

Regards

[joeydavies]

I apologize if this has been previously asked but is the 81 Series or a similar spec model planned for release in the UK? If so does anyone know whether Samsung usually release new models simultaneously worldwide or stagger the release over Territories in stages. Knowing "new technology" the US will see this in summer and us English will wait till Christmas.

Cheers Joe

[irkuck]

I apologize if this has been previously asked but is the 81 Series or a similar spec model planned for release in the UK? If so does anyone know whether Samsung usually release new models simultaneously worldwide or stagger the release over Territories in stages. Knowing "new technology" the US will see this in summer and us English will wait till Christmas.


It looks Samsung is staging releases based on many factors. There are LED BL LCD's from Samsung available now in Europe which are not available in the US. These are not LD models though, they seem to hit first the US.

[joeydavies]

It looks Samsung is staging releases based on many factors. There are LED BL LCD's from Samsung available now in Europe which are not available in the US. These are not LD models though, they seem to hit first the US.

Thanks for that irkuck, if i took the plunge and decided to import one from the US to the UK, would it pose any distinct disadvantages, i.e. are there any problems using an NTSC set in a PAL region.

Thanks

[buzznwood]

Thanks for that irkuck, if i took the plunge and decided to import one from the US to the UK, would it pose any distinct disadvantages, i.e. are there any problems using an NTSC set in a PAL region.

Thanks

You would need to check the tech spec to make sure the set took a PAL signal, chances are it wont. I've found that most sets over on this side of the pond don't where as most set's back home will take both NTSC and PAL. You can always get a standalone PAL to NTSC converter. There is also the issue of 50hz/60hz scanning rates.

The other thing that will be the different is the voltage 220/50Hz in UK compared to 110/60hz over here. A step down converter would be needed.

Most sets are manufactured will world use in mind so its typically only a few bits that are changed for each region.

I would wait to see what the prices are like for the UK model before going down the import route, while the current $2 to the pound exchange makes importing tempting once you add shipping and import taxes on top the difference in price sometimes isn't that great, you should be able to find good online prices way below MRRP back home.

[irkuck]

Thanks for that irkuck, if i took the plunge and decided to import one from the US to the UK, would it pose any distinct disadvantages, i.e. are there any problems using an NTSC set in a PAL region.

There might be problem with the display rate, which is 50i in Europe and 60i in US. Especially 120 Hz US TV's are 100 Hz in Europe. I do not know if US sets with HDMI will automatically adjust to the Europeans display rate even is the HD picture size is same 1920x1080. Apart of this power supply is different. Also, if somebody wants to buy a set with terrestrial digital for Europe, this will not go, US system is totally different. Due to these factors I would not consider US import unless issues are 100% clarified.

[wtr_wkr]

Thanks for that irkuck, if i took the plunge and decided to import one from the US to the UK, would it pose any distinct disadvantages, i.e. are there any problems using an NTSC set in a PAL region.

Thanks
Others have given techno info. Since this stuff is so leading edge, it's not in your back yard yet, consider simply waiting a bit for a lot of reasons. That's what a wise buyer here should be doing. Waiting for some reviews will not only make one "better safe than sorry", but let you see other alternatives and better prices.

On the other hand, your could get a Japanese model and learn Japanese (for the on screen menu.) Learning a foreign language is a good thing.

[gamelover360]

I am possibly moving to Sweden, and am interested in the 81 series. From what I understand the European (pal) equivelant of the 81 series is the M87 series in Europe. Here are two links which shed some insight into the M87 and thus maybe apply to the 81 series.
Link 1 shows some highlights and says 100hz near the bottom. I alos read in another news clip that the M87 will be the top line new samsung and have 3 HDMI 1.3 ports, deep colr, etc.
Link 1 (http://www.samsung.com/se/products/tv/lcdtv/le40m87bd.asp)

Link2 is a more specific specs list
Link2 (http://www.samsung.com/se/products/tv/lcdtv/le40m87bd.asp?page=Specifications)

Hopefully this helps. Like I said I think this M87 represents the 81 series in the States here.

[gamelover360]

Here is the link about the M87 being HDMI 1.3

Link (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/televisions/0,39029474,49288612,00.htm)

[Therodman55]

Did some surfing on Amazon UK(Model No. LE46M87, and LE52M87 ) then plugged the prices into a currency exchange calculator just for the heck of it.

[Raitzi]

. From what I understand the European (pal) equivelant of the 81 series is the M87 series in Europe.

M87 is equivelant of 65-series. So its basic 1080p lcd. Currently there is no higher-end models available from samsung. If M87 Some day gets 100/120 Hz with 1080p ,you can say its equivelant of 71-series. Now they only have 32" 768p with 100Hz. So if LED backlight 1080p LCD comes to europe, it Will have new model number ,something like 97- series.( no official press releases though)

Despite the fact it is not 81-series ,its a good lcd; in my opinion the best there is currently.(in eu) Btw only difference between m86 and m87 is esthetic.

PS: It takes 1080p24. A guy att dvdplaza tested it with pc.

Good info about M87 @ avforums.com (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511377)

[spincut]

M87 is equivelant of 65-series. So its basic 1080p lcd. Currently there is no higher-end models available from samsung. If M87 Some day gets 100/120 Hz with 1080p ,you can say its equivelant of 71-series. Now they only have 32" 768p with 100Hz. So if LED backlight 1080p LCD comes to europe, it Will have new model number ,something like 97- series.( no official press releases though)

Despite the fact it is not 81-series ,its a good lcd; in my opinion the best there is currently.(in eu) Btw only difference between m86 and m87 is esthetic.

PS: It takes 1080p24. A guy att dvdplaza tested it with pc.

Good info about M87 @ avforums.com (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511377)

what about the 66?

[Raitzi]

what about the 66?

You mean 61-series?

Maybe you could say that 61-series is N87 (http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/television/tftlcd/le40n86bdxxec.asp?page=Specifications)
. At least they both have "10000:1" CR. But i dont know if n87 has 16-bit processor like 61 does.

[gamelover360]

M87 is equivelant of 65-series. So its basic 1080p lcd. Currently there is no higher-end models available from samsung. If M87 Some day gets 100/120 Hz with 1080p ,you can say its equivelant of 71-series. Now they only have 32" 768p with 100Hz. So if LED backlight 1080p LCD comes to europe, it Will have new model number ,something like 97- series.( no official press releases though)

Despite the fact it is not 81-series ,its a good lcd; in my opinion the best there is currently.(in eu) Btw only difference between m86 and m87 is esthetic.

PS: It takes 1080p24. A guy att dvdplaza tested it with pc.

Good info about M87 @ avforums.com (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511377)
Read this link (http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/news/Samsung-Launch-S86-R87-and-M87-Plasma-and-LCD-TV-Ranges/281911.html).

[Raitzi]

Read this link (http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/news/Samsung-Launch-S86-R87-and-M87-Plasma-and-LCD-TV-Ranges/281911.html).

I didn't notice any difference with that and my statements. There is no release info about LED 1080p pal lcd from samsung.

btw M86 40" 1080p costs about 1.5K€ and 46" 2.2K€. Cheapest 1080p plasma costs here about 3.7K€. (we are used to pay same amount of euros for dollar priced products)

[spincut]

You mean 61-series?

Maybe you could say that 61-series is N87 (http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/television/tftlcd/le40n86bdxxec.asp?page=Specifications)
. At least they both have "10000:1" CR. But i dont know if n87 has 16-bit processor like 61 does.

no i mean the 66, i thought there was a matte 61 and then a 65 and a 66, i dunno what the difference is between the latter though.

[komari]

no i mean the 66, i thought there was a matte 61 and then a 65 and a 66, i dunno what the difference is between the latter though.
Just to chime in and clarify one aspect of this discussion. In regards to the new Samsung sets available (US) - they all use the SAME LCD PANELS and VIDEO PROCESSOR. This was discussed in the owners thread and someone had managed to get some info that apparently came from a samsung tech/engineer (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10344527&highlight=16bit#post10344527). It turns out what they did was publish the processor specs (16-bit) for the 61F series and panel specs (10-bit) for the 65F - probably to make the 61s a bit more attractive!

The only differences btw the sets are:

61F vs 65/66F: matte vs clear/glossy coating, old vs new sound system, casing
65F vs 66F: side vs bottom speakers

The 5K increase in CR on the 65/6 series is due to the clear coating which does not diffuse/scatter light as with the matte finish.

[791]

I've been questioning those panals, thanks Komari. And although I'm not interested in the reflections the 65f is very nice.

[spincut]

Just to chime in and clarify one aspect of this discussion. In regards to the new Samsung sets available (US) - they all use the SAME LCD PANELS and VIDEO PROCESSOR. This was discussed in the owners thread and someone had managed to get some info that apparently came from a samsung tech/engineer (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10344527&highlight=16bit#post10344527). It turns out what they did was publish the processor specs (16-bit) for the 61F series and panel specs (10-bit) for the 65F - probably to make the 61s a bit more attractive!

The only differences btw the sets are:

61F vs 65/66F: matte vs clear/glossy coating, old vs new sound system, casing
65F vs 66F: side vs bottom speakers

The 5K increase in CR on the 65/6 series is due to the clear coating which does not diffuse/scatter light as with the matte finish.

one thing though, it does seem lime most people are complaining about black crush on the 65 and not the 61, despite them having the same video processing (contrary to what that other post said), i wonder why that is.

[mark_1080p]

We 61 owners perhaps have not been whining enough.
The 4661 has it, like all Sammy's, but with settings it is manageable.
We do have "fuzzy blacks", on that score the 65 wins, no glare though :cool: :cool:

[westa6969]

While we're talking anticipation man for those of you that may not wander outside LCD's you won't believe what I found over in the Dinosaur RPTV section. Damn if I didn't come across the next gen SXRD for October release and you simply cannot believe the damn thing is a Microdisplay. Pic's originate from the Sony Vegas Show in late February apparently. Nearly everyone thought this was the $33K Sony LCD but he proved everyone wrong with the side pic's and the spec card.

Not to go off topic but there isn't much to discuss for now anyways but you'd swear this thing is a flat panel and yet the poster had side pic's to prove it is what he says. Seeing how I've never seen any panel match the blacks and shadow details of an SXRD I may be in line for the 70" now that it's been slimmed down by about a foot. The TV is housed on Sony custom stand. HDMI 1.3, 120Hz and does 24p.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/Sony2007XBR3.jpg

[PowerUp]

Sure would like to see the side pic...also dimensional specs would be too cool. Thanks for throwing yet one more set into the decision making process!!! Regards, Ken

[wtr_wkr]

... the next gen SXRD...
Although never succinct, keep up the good work. You are loved if not fully read.
A fan.

[jmhumr]

Good: "industry-leading value"
61F series CCFL BLU, 10k CR, regular audio, bottom speakers

Better: "clearest, brightest LCD picture on the market today"
65F series CCFL BLU, 15k CR, premium audio, side speakers
66F series CCFL BLU, 15k CR, premium audio, bottom speakers

Best: (not yet on webpage)
81D series LED local dimming BLU, 50k CR, 105% gamut, Bluetooth
71D series CCFL BLU, 120Hz, Bluetooth

Regards

First off, thanks for making a post that summarizes the models. Threads like this quickly become model number soup.

Do we have a ballpark estimate for the 71D series MSRP? I'm holding out for a 40" 120MHz 1080p LCD and I thought the Sony V3000 series would offer that, but it is looking like they won't include the 120MHz. So I might aim for the 71D series, however some people have talked like this will be an "elite" TV well over $3500 and I'm not willing to pay that much.

[Raitzi]

First off, thanks for making a post that summarizes the models. Threads like this quickly become model number soup.

Do we have a ballpark estimate for the 71D series MSRP? I'm holding out for a 40" 120MHz 1080p LCD and I thought the Sony V3000 series would offer that, but it is looking like they won't include the 120MHz. So I might aim for the 71D series, however some people have talked like this will be an "elite" TV well over $3500 and I'm not willing to pay that much.

I think 71 will be around 200-x00 more than 65. 120Hz 71 will have competion at least from philips and thoshiba, so samsung can not ask for ridiculous sums. 81 is another thing with its led system.

[rbarg]

Flat screen displays an organic evolution
By Mariko Sanchanta in Tokyo, Kathryn Hille in Taipei, and Song Jung-a in Seoul

Published: May 1 2007 23:08 | Last updated: May 1 2007 23:08


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e61ac7de-f82d-11db-baa1-000b5df10621.html

What will Samsung do in this new world order?

[wtr_wkr]

...says Lee Kuen-yao, chairman of AU Optronics, the world’s third largest LCD panel maker.

“Sony has never bet on the right horse in display technology. Why should they be right this time?”

Priceless.

[jmhumr]

I think 71 will be around 200-x00 more than 65. 120Hz 71 will have competion at least from philips and thoshiba, so samsung can not ask for ridiculous sums. 81 is another thing with its led system.

Oh man, that's the best news I've heard recently. The 71 just moved to the top of my wishlist. :)

[doctorky1]

Sorry is this has been asked before, but will the 81D and 71D sets have the matte or glossy screens? I am looking for a 52" set with matte screen and the 61F did not come out with a 52" set as far as I know.

[williamtassone]

well there out now in Australia

heres the brochure

15k:1 contrast or so they reckon

http://www.samsung.com/au/products/tv/lcdtv/images/la46m81bdx.pdf

[ChicagoSparty]

well there out now in Australia

heres the brochure

15k:1 contrast or so they reckon

http://www.samsung.com/au/products/tv/lcdtv/images/la46m81bdx.pdf
???

Specs are no different from the 65 series, are they?

[tower101]

well there out now in Australia

heres the brochure

15k:1 contrast or so they reckon

http://www.samsung.com/au/products/tv/lcdtv/images/la46m81bdx.pdf

PAL version of the LN-Txx65

[bigmjh]

Hmmm ... 3 YEAR warranty in Australia?

[williamtassone]

sorry if I posted the wrong one just that the model # said M81

[snowstorm81]

well there out now in Australia

heres the brochure

15k:1 contrast or so they reckon


Correct tower101 and ChigagoSparty
This is not the US 81-series with LED backlight, this one has CCFL and corresponds to 65-series in USA, 86-series in Europe and 81-series in Asia

The new Samsung with LED's is only called 81 in US, I wonder what the model name is in Europe or Australia, - maybe M96, as following the last years M91-series with LED

I noticed that the spec-sheet in UK says nothing about M91 100Hz, but in Sweden it does...

[mark_1080p]

Sorry is this has been asked before, but will the 81D and 71D sets have the matte or glossy screens? I am looking for a 52" set with matte screen and the 61F did not come out with a 52" set as far as I know.Glossy is here to stay, Sammy CSR stated all future sets for now are glossy at larger sizes. 71 and 81 will be glossy. Supposedly Sammy is working to reduce reflections but gloss will remain. CES announcement on 81 series states Superclear, i.e. gloss.

[dianwei]

In the German Samsung site, LE-40M91B is shown, with 100hz and LED but only HD Ready, so now does this model correspond to the US 71 or 81 series or is this a previous model?

[doctorky1]

Glossy is here to stay, Sammy CSR stated all future sets for now are glossy at larger sizes. 71 and 81 will be glossy. Supposedly Sammy is working to reduce reflections but gloss will remain. CES announcement on 81 series states Superclear, i.e. gloss.

I just don't get it. What about all the people who have big rooms with lots of windows? So far, the efforts at anti-reflection come nowhere close to a matte screen. Do most people just get used to reflections or spend $$ to install shades for all the windows? I would think there would continue to be a market for matte screens.

[tower101]

I just don't get it. What about all the people who have big rooms with lots of windows? So far, the efforts at anti-reflection come nowhere close to a matte screen. Do most people just get used to reflections or spend $$ to install shades for all the windows? I would think there would continue to be a market for matte screens.

I will not be getting one if it is indeed a glass screen. :(

[snowstorm81]

In the German Samsung site, LE-40M91B is shown, with 100hz and LED but only HD Ready, so now does this model correspond to the US 71 or 81 series or is this a previous model?

This model came out in Europe in autum (september?) last year 2006 - its only avaiable in 40". Don't now if it's released in US

The initial price was around $4800, but its now down to $2800 here in Sweden
An attractive price, but I think I'll go for a 1920x1080 panel with LEDs instead. Hope some more official info about the US 81-series comes soon, and the European name is released to - I just can't wait the whole summer for this...

[petesonguy]

FWIW: I just got the LN-T5265F with the glossy black panel. You can see many reflections when the set is turned off. When viewing a program, the reflections TOTALLY disappear. May be just my lighting environment, but it's friggin' magic! I don't see how this is possible since it flies in the face of Physics and common sense, but it truly doesn't reflect for me one iota. The clear panel is the finest image I've seen to date... At "only" 15000 to 1, I cannot view in total darkness without getting major headaches. :)

Bob in Orlando

[tower101]

Then vote with your wallet. I don't know why high end lcds should be matte. Matte screen diffuses both incoming and outgoing light, making picture look inferior to a glossy screen.

Sorry if I offended you :rolleyes: I said I would not get one if it has glass that is voting with my wallet. Some of us have big windows with southern views. If I have the choice between a great view and a TV the TV is GONE.

Sorry if some want a nice TV without reflections I had plenty of then with the old CRTs why would I go back.

[mark_1080p]

I just don't get it. What about all the people who have big rooms with lots of windows? So far, the efforts at anti-reflection come nowhere close to a matte screen. Do most people just get used to reflections or spend $$ to install shades for all the windows? I would think there would continue to be a market for matte screens.I didn't get it either, but then I started reading the reviews in the 61,65 series thread. The gaming crowd seems to go bonkers over this "sexy gloss" as they call it. I don't want to watch myself watching TV, so matte is just fine. That said, it does dull the pic a bit. The 4661 is so matte that it scatters too much light IMO. Yea, it soaks up ambient but the scattering is so good it ends up lighting up the whole surface.

Sharp has it just right. The d92 series with its 3000:1 CR is a bit glossier than the d62 series, but still considered matte. My feeling is that Sammy has 2 extremes, Sharp does it right. If only they could have avoided the banding fiasco.

[doctorky1]

Then vote with your wallet. I don't know why high end lcds should be matte. Matte screen diffuses both incoming and outgoing light, making picture look inferior to a glossy screen.

I am saying I wish they would make both glossy and matte in 52+" models, so that those in my situation have a choice to go with the matte when the room conditions necessitate minimal relections. I can't "vote with my wallet" if there is no choice available.

[mark_1080p]

FWIW: I just got the LN-T5265F with the glossy black panel. You can see many reflections when the set is turned off. When viewing a program, the reflections TOTALLY disappear. May be just my lighting environment, but it's friggin' magic! I don't see how this is possible since it flies in the face of Physics and common sense, but it truly doesn't reflect for me one iota.If you know your physics, you should know better than to make statements such as this. Yes the intensity of the emission from the screen can overwhelm the reflected light intensity in bright scenes. But in the shadows of those scenes or darker scenes behold the reflections galore. In physics it is called superposition, not magic.

[mark_1080p]

I am saying I wish they would make both glossy and matte in 52+" models, so that those in my situation have a choice to go with the matte when the room conditions necessitate minimal relections.Yep, Samsung said early this year they would make a 5261, then as I was preparing to order one, found out it was cancelled!

[irkuck]

This model came out in Europe in autum (september?) last year 2006 - its only avaiable in 40". Don't now if it's released in US


This model has not been released in the US, maybe Samsung was testing its first LED model just in Europe.


The initial price was around $4800, but its now down to $2800 here in Sweden


Sweden is not good for benchmarking european prices for the stuff since it is peripheral market with its own funny currency. This panel can be obtained in Europe just below €1900.


An attractive price, but I think I'll go for a 1920x1080 panel with LEDs instead. Hope some more official info about the US 81-series comes soon, and the European name is released to - I just can't wait the whole summer for this...

It does not look likely that the equivalent of the 81-series will be announced soon in Europe. Samsung just released lots of models in the 86 and related series and they seem to be their flagship for the summer.

[spincut]

you know i've asked this before, but i may as well ask again, these "glossy" screens, they aren't any more glossy than CRT's used to be are they? if anything, presumably they are less reflective right? seems to me that we should have grown accustomed to that over the years, with matte televisions being more of a recent development.

I would also wonder if the 65, 71 and 81 will all be equally glossy or if they plan to do anything extra with the latter.

[Mr T]

you know i've asked this before, but i may as well ask again, these "glossy" screens, they aren't any more glossy than CRT's used to be are they? if anything, presumably they are less reflective right? seems to me that we should have grown accustomed to that over the years, with matte televisions being more of a recent development.

I would also wonder if the 65, 71 and 81 will all be equally glossy or if they plan to do anything extra with the latter.

I don't remember seeing a CRT TV as glossy as the 65 series. Honestly, I haven't looked around at TVs all that much in the past; have only started doing this over the last 1.5 years or so in my search for a 1080p LCD TV. The 65 series is the most reflective TV I have seen in that timeframe.

I would agree with a number of posters here and in the 61/65/66 owners thread that when the TV is on, the reflectiveness becomes less of an issue, but by no means do the reflections go away. If you have a room layout that induces alot of reflections you will see them while you are watching TV, not just when the TV is turned off and the glossy finish becomes a mirror.

Just go down to Fry's or any other store that has one out in normal lighting conditions. I only mention Fry's because, unlike some of the other retailers like Best Buy who have the lights turned down, many of the Fry's locations put models like the 65 and 61 series up front, where everyone can easily find them, but also out in the main store lighting. Frankly, it's a more realistic viewing scenario for many of us.

Anyway, check it out for yourself. It is very much a personal choice. Opinions here are fine, but they are just that, and certainly there are multiple camps on this topic. This is one of those things that's really easy for anyone to try out and determine their personal preference.

Ultimately, if you have a problem with reflections of the 65 series, you may have to wait and see for the 71/81 panels, as there have been comments here that Samsung is trying to maintain the gloss look, but improve (reduce) the reflectiveness. Only time will tell.

[spincut]

I don't remember seeing a CRT TV as glossy as the 65 series. Honestly, I haven't looked around at TVs all that much in the past; have only started doing this over the last 1.5 years or so in my search for a 1080p LCD TV. The 65 series is the most reflective TV I have seen in that timeframe.

I would agree with a number of posters here and in the 61/65/66 owners thread that when the TV is on, the reflectiveness becomes less of an issue, but by no means do the reflections go away. If you have a room layout that induces alot of reflections you will see them while you are watching TV, not just when the TV is turned off and the glossy finish becomes a mirror.

Just go down to Fry's or any other store that has one out in normal lighting conditions. I only mention Fry's because, unlike some of the other retailers like Best Buy who have the lights turned down, many of the Fry's locations put models like the 65 and 61 series up front, where everyone can easily find them, but also out in the main store lighting. Frankly, it's a more realistic viewing scenario for many of us.

Anyway, check it out for yourself. It is very much a personal choice. Opinions here are fine, but they are just that, and certainly there are multiple camps on this topic. This is one of those things that's really easy for anyone to try out and determine their personal preference.

Ultimately, if you have a problem with reflections of the 65 series, you may have to wait and see for the 71/81 panels, as there have been comments here that Samsung is trying to maintain the gloss look, but improve (reduce) the reflectiveness. Only time will tell.

looking or no, if you've been watching TV for at least the last 20 years, it's is likely that before maybe 5 years ago tops you likely had a reflective tv. And as far as i've heard (and, yes, seen) the 65 seems somewhat less glossy than much of the plasma out there, and is definetly not "king glossy amongst the glossy screens".

my point being though that as far as i can tell, glossy panels are no more glossy than glass screens were/are, which is something i presumed most everyone on the globe generally grew accustomed to over the years of having such tube televisions.

Heck, i only recently switched to an LCD tv from my old sony trinitron, i would hope that switching back would almost be comforting if that indeed happened.

[Jason Bourne]

Having spent several hours tweaking them at BB, I know how good the 65/66 series can look when a 1080p source is piped in (although my Magnolia guy had to give up on the Sammy BR since the 65F had a handshake problem with it!).

BUT, I hope the 71/81 have *much* better video processing.

No offense to Sammy lovers, but the D92U and XBR2/3 leave the 65/66 in the dust in the areas of deinterlacing and scaling.

Any intel on what video processor might be in the 71/81?

Some of us still watch 480i/720P/1080i content!

[UUronl]

Hopefully we'll start seeing embedded HQV processing in more displays.


Also, with panels so cheap these days... why not spring for a decent outboard processor? I think the newest Sammy displays are much more configurable and easily capable of doing 1:1 mapping.

[jmhumr]

you know i've asked this before, but i may as well ask again, these "glossy" screens, they aren't any more glossy than CRT's used to be are they? if anything, presumably they are less reflective right? seems to me that we should have grown accustomed to that over the years, with matte televisions being more of a recent development.

I'm with you. I think it is another case of hypersensitivity. Glossy flat panel TVs seem more glossy because the screens are so much larger than most of us have ever owned in a CRT. But it is something we've lived with for decades on CRTs and I personally don't quite understand the frustration. I just wish people would realize it is a personal tolerance and stop acting like companies are making a HUGE design mistake by including a glossy screen. They're not gonna please everyone, and my guess is that the glossy-sensitive folks are the minority. On the other hand, more sales are made/lost by PQ, and glossy screens certainly make the picture look more rich.

BTW, if so many customers are intolerant to gloss, I can't believe someone hasn't developed an aftermarket matte film to place on plasma/LCD TVs. Maybe someone has and I don't know it...

[mark_1080p]

I'm with you. I think it is another case of hypersensitivity. Glossy flat panel TVs seem more glossy because the screens are so much larger than most of us have ever owned in a CRT. But it is something we've lived with for decades on CRTs and I personally don't quite understand the frustration. I just wish people would realize it is a personal tolerance and stop acting like companies are making a HUGE design mistake by including a glossy screen. They're not gonna please everyone, and my guess is that the glossy-sensitive folks are the minority. On the other hand, more sales are made/lost by PQ, and glossy screens certainly make the picture look more rich.

BTW, if so many customers are intolerant to gloss, I can't believe someone hasn't developed an aftermarket matte film to place on plasma/LCD TVs. Maybe someone has and I don't know it...
So we now call the anti-glossy camp intolerant and hypersensitive frustrated people? Then we minimize them as being part of a minority, hard to please, and uncomprehending of the "fact" that glossy screens look more "rich" ? Yes, let's relegate them to the aftermarket crowd, throw a matte film in as a bonus dog bone to please this herd.

Ridiculous.

[jrgriff]

Since we're talking a bit about glossy, can someone explain to me why on a non-glossy LCD screens, the manufacturer. put on a very glossy bezel. I find it very distracting, and don't understand the concept behind it. I tend to appreciate those (Sony, Misti) that use the matted finish. Even large front projector screen use black velvet type setup, I would think it would still make sense on flat screens.

[mark_1080p]

Since we're talking a bit about glossy, can someone explain to me why on a non-glossy LCD screens, the manufacturer. put on a very glossy bezel. I find it very distracting, and don't understand the concept behind it. I tend to appreciate those (Sony, Misti) that use the matted finish. Even large front projector screen use black velvet type setup, I would think it would still make sense on flat screens.
Marketing 101 :D.

Don't be surprised to see others follow the pack, glossy bezel and screens.

[wtr_wkr]

Marketing 101 :D.

Don't be surprised to see others follow the pack, glossy bezel and screens.
And part of that marketing is dark floors in the show rooms.

[dsjk100]

can someone tell me if there is a difference between the 81 and 87 series I found information on the 87 series here: on crave

Thanks in advance.

[AceBates]

Since we're talking a bit about glossy, can someone explain to me why on a non-glossy LCD screens, the manufacturer. put on a very glossy bezel. I find it very distracting, and don't understand the concept behind it. I tend to appreciate those (Sony, Misti) that use the matted finish. Even large front projector screen use black velvet type setup, I would think it would still make sense on flat screens.

Actually, during the short time I sold TV's in college (a few years ago), I often found that the women preferred the look of the TV better than the actual picture it showed. The preference was that the tv looked great while it was on and off and who doesn't like the look of a sleek shiny grand piano? or a perfectly waxed black car? The black shiny stuff makes it feel more like art than a piece of common gray plastic electronics.

Plus shiny sells, vibrant sells, and it all adds to the "wow" factor for the majority of people that can't tell the difference between two very different TVs. Aesthetics sell more often than sheer performance, just look at the car industry or "supermodel athletes" like Kournikova :p .

[mark_1080p]

I often found that the women preferred the look of the TV better than the actual picture it showed.

Plus shiny sells, vibrant sells, and it all adds to the "wow" factor for the majority of people that can't tell the difference between two very different TVs.
Yea, all the matte happy engineering geeks just ain't sexy :D :D.

[Jason Bourne]

Hopefully we'll start seeing embedded HQV processing in more displays.


Also, with panels so cheap these days... why not spring for a decent outboard processor? I think the newest Sammy displays are much more configurable and easily capable of doing 1:1 mapping.

I shudder at the thought of spending time to learn the outboard processor manufacturers and products. The last time I looked a few years ago, anything decent was in the thousands.

Do you have anything to suggest for < $1K?

[jmhumr]

So we now call the anti-glossy camp intolerant and hypersensitive frustrated people? Then we minimize them as being part of a minority, hard to please, and uncomprehending of the "fact" that glossy screens look more "rich" ? Yes, let's relegate them to the aftermarket crowd, throw a matte film in as a bonus dog bone to please this herd.

Ridiculous.

I said it was a personal preference. I have personal preferences where I accept that I'm in the minority too. I don't make a big deal about it because I know TVs are made to sell, and just because I think a certain feature is a dealbreaker/dealmaker it doesn't mean it would sell the best. Perhaps I'm "ridiculous" to think that everyone else should take the time and consider the marketing aspects involved in TV design before acting like companies are doing you such a huge injustice by not appealing to your personal preference.

And I don't understand why an aftermarket matte film is a bad idea. Electronics, cars, computers, etc. all have a very successful aftermarket system driven by people who think certain off-the-shelf products need just one or two customizations to be perfect. No one thinks they're just getting thrown a bone with those products, so why can't TVs get involved? Sony has already trying to start the trend with customizable XBR bezels...

I sure hope your post wasn't aimed to convince others that the "hypersensitive" language was inaccurate. :)

[splaza1]

I shudder at the thought of spending time to learn the outboard processor manufacturers and products. The last time I looked a few years ago, anything decent was in the thousands.

Do you have anything to suggest for < $1K?



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Input/Output HDMI Connector: type A 19 pin female
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this may help you. It does 3:2 and 2:2 pull down automatically :cool:

[mark_1080p]

Perhaps I'm "ridiculous" to think that everyone else should take the time and consider the marketing aspects involved in TV design before acting like companies are doing you such a huge injustice by not appealing to your personal preference.

I sure hope your post wasn't aimed to convince others that the "hypersensitive" language was inaccurate. :)The above point is a ridiculous straw man argument as well since no one stated marketing was ignored and your false assumption that perceptions of injustice are a major factor in people's reactions.

There is no hypersensitivity either, many people already have matte screen LCD and are looking for upgrades or additional sets. They have avoided plasma for burn in and glare among other important factors. CRT's are ancient history, and they were generally quite small and sometimes curved in 1 or 2 dimensions so glare was not nearly the factor it is with these large flat sets. For flat screens, glare was frequently a point of discussion when the forums were together (plasma and LCD). It is not a minor factor for many people.

[valoidr]

The above point is a ridiculous straw man argument as well since no one stated marketing was ignored and your false assumption that perceptions of injustice are a major factor in people's reactions.

There is no hypersensitivity either, many people already have matte screen LCD and are looking for upgrades or additional sets. They have avoided plasma for burn in and glare among other important factors. CRT's are ancient history, and they were generally quite small and sometimes curved in 1 or 2 dimensions so glare was not nearly the factor it is with these large flat sets. For flat screens, glare was frequently a point of discussion when the forums were together (plasma and LCD). It is not a minor factor for many people.
Predication: glare and little or no motion on todays plasma's with IR a non issue also - you will begin to experience a paradigm shift to Plasma and realize how more life-like/3D plasma images are. Unless the new Sonys can "pull a rabbit out of their arse.....

[Mr T]

Predication: glare and little or no motion on todays plasma's with IR a non issue also - you will begin to experience a paradigm shift to Plasma and realize how more life-like/3D plasma images are. Unless the new Sonys can "pull a rabbit out of their arse.....

Plasma will be dead soon. It has already declined to a minority position in the FPTV segment.

[Robert D]

Plasma will be dead soon. It has already declined to a minority position in the FPTV segment.

Why is that? I thought Plasma had better contrast ratios and a few other items over LCD.

[Mr T]

Why is that? I thought Plasma had better contrast ratios and a few other items over LCD.

PQ, such as contrast ratios, have narrowed to where the better LCD panels can hold their own. This thread talks of a new model from Samsung that has the possibility of being significantly better.

But in the end, LCDs are lower cost, AND even are able to compete with native pixel resolutions of 1920x1080, whereas Plasma is trying to compete with 1388x768 resolution at or above the LCD pricing. And they're riding a steeper price curve.

[mark_1080p]

Predication: glare and little or no motion on todays plasma's with IR a non issue also - you will begin to experience a paradigm shift to Plasma and realize how more life-like/3D plasma images are. Unless the new Sonys can "pull a rabbit out of their arse.....People are buying LCD even though plasma is cheaper, I think people are realizing those sets put out a lot of heat, still have burn in problems if you have kids that watch lots of cartoons, etc 4:3 content. LCD - turn it on and forget about it, uses very little power at low backlight, has the jump on 1080. And then there is the glare factor :D

It will be interesting to see what happens when plasma reemerges with 1080.

[valoidr]

People are buying LCD even though plasma is cheaper, I think people are realizing those sets put out a lot of heat, still have burn in problems if you have kids that watch lots of cartoons, etc 4:3 content. LCD - turn it on and forget about it, uses very little power at low backlight, has the jump on 1080. And then there is the glare factor :D

It will be interesting to see what happens when plasma reemerges with 1080. its already here check the new Pani/gen 8 threads - 1080 is now the standard..50" ~ $3.7k or less.

[xb1032]

I'm really interested in the new Samsung but it seems all the talk here always goes back to screen glare. If you don't like the new glare on the Samsung's then it seems to me that it would be best to just pass on the 81 series and look at something else. If the new Sammy's are going to have a glossy screen then you're only choice is to live with it or just pass.

[shishghate]

A newbie here, but I just got my B&H catalog in the mail and it had the 71 series listed as coming in July. Nothing on the 81's. Here is what they have for specs:

LN-T 4071F, 4671F, 5271F, 5771F

1920 x 1080
Bluetooth compatable
120Hz Motion Blur Reduction
10-bit processing
92% Wide Color Gamut
Premium 2.2 channel sound
3HDMI, 2 Component, PC

Not sure what the 120Hz Motion Blur and 92% Color Gamut gets me. Of course no price posted and I didn't see one on their website.

[petrovy]

A newbie here, but I just got my B&H catalog in the mail and it had the 71 series listed as coming in July.
And THATS when the Sharps will finally and miraculously be shipped banding free!!!!!

[spincut]

A newbie here, but I just got my B&H catalog in the mail and it had the 71 series listed as coming in July. Nothing on the 81's. Here is what they have for specs:

LN-T 4071F, 4671F, 5271F, 5771F

1920 x 1080
Bluetooth compatable
120Hz Motion Blur Reduction
10-bit processing
92% Wide Color Gamut
Premium 2.2 channel sound
3HDMI, 2 Component, PC

Not sure what the 120Hz Motion Blur and 92% Color Gamut gets me. Of course no price posted and I didn't see one on their website.

92% color gamut? isn't that bad? i thought it was only a plus if it was above 100% otherwise it's worse?

also, 2.2 sound? (not that it matters to me, i use a system, but not sure what makes it ".2").

[007craft]

92% color gamut? isn't that bad? i thought it was only a plus if it was above 100% otherwise it's worse?

also, 2.2 sound? (not that it matters to me, i use a system, but not sure what makes it ".2").

I almost feel cheated out of these new tvs with their fancy sound. I stoped using tv sound 10 years ago. I wish they sold like a version of all these fine tvs without speakers for a cheaper price. Hell, exclude the useless TV tuner and give me a further discount (STB is used nowadays, and also I really have no use for a set-top-box anyway because I dont plan on watching any TV on my 71 or 81 once I get it. (I dont watch tv, only movies and video games))

[007craft]

A newbie here, but I just got my B&H catalog in the mail

Whats a B&H Catalog?

[Wooterz]

Whats a B&H Catalog?

A catalog for this company: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

I'm guessing.

[shishghate]

Wooterz guessed right...

[HMF]

I have a nephew who works in the Samsung Lcd division. He tells me the Series 71 and 81 are tentatively scheduled to be released to the North American market in late July with full production in August. He's writing me in Korean and my translator leaves a little to be desired.

[Raitzi]

I have a nephew who works in the Samsung Lcd division. He tells me the Series 71 and 81 are tentatively scheduled to be released to the North American market in late July with full production in August. He's writing me in Korean and my translator leaves a little to be desired.

Nice info! Does he know schedule for european models?

[mark_1080p]

A newbie here, but I just got my B&H catalog in the mail and it had the 71 series listed as coming in July.Does it say anything about it being a superclear panel (i.e. glossy) ?

[mark_1080p]

I have a nephew who works in the Samsung Lcd division. He tells me the Series 71 and 81 are tentatively scheduled to be released to the North American market in late July with full production in August. He's writing me in Korean and my translator leaves a little to be desired.Write him about the black crush issue (i.e. are the engineers in Korea working on flattening out the response at low IRE) and whether screens are glossy on the 71.

[jmanthey]

Does it say anything about it being a superclear panel (i.e. glossy) ?

No, it doesn't say anything about this issue.

[studdad]

Ok, I waited around for the latest Samsungs that came out in April, and I thought "that would be the one I would buy". Then I hear about all kinds of problems, and I am back to square one. Now I find this thread, and everyone is talking about the new 71 and 81 that are coming out. I understand that the 81 will be LED, but other than that, can you tell me what is supposed to be better on the 71 from the 65F, and how the 81 is supposed to compare to the 71? After all the waiting for the 65F, I was almost ready to call it quits and hope Sharp would resolve their issues, but who knows, maybe we will never get rid of clouding, bans, etc.

Thanks in advance.

[jmhumr]

Ok, I waited around for the latest Samsungs that came out in April, and I thought "that would be the one I would buy". Then I hear about all kinds of problems, and I am back to square one. Now I find this thread, and everyone is talking about the new 71 and 81 that are coming out. I understand that the 81 will be LED, but other than that, can you tell me what is supposed to be better on the 71 from the 65F, and how the 81 is supposed to compare to the 71? After all the waiting for the 65F, I was almost ready to call it quits and hope Sharp would resolve their issues, but who knows, maybe we will never get rid of clouding, bans, etc.

Thanks in advance.

The 71 will have 120Mhz but no LED. That's why I'm waiting for it. Unfortunately, at this point, I'm expecting a huge design flaw since it seems Samsung and Sony have no QC.

This post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10419187&&#post10419187) gives a good summary of the models.

[studdad]

jmhumr, thanks

[wtr_wkr]

Ok, ... back to square one...
Sammy 71: 120Hz & improved color (as with all) - worth a look.
" 81: LED BLU w/ local dimming - limited (pricy) and immature technology.
(Sammy's have questionable processing (marginal SD, etc.)
Sony: >= Sammy (better processing.)
Tosh 177: not as good a panel, but expecting better processing.
Sharp: currently, out to lunch.
Syntax: #1 processor (SO's Realta HQV). #1 at SD & upconversion. Marginal panel.
Values: Westys, Visio,...: no comment (I'm not tracking them.)

Re 120Hz - IMO, the processor will make the biggest difference.

[007craft]

On augest 1st I plan to buy my TV. I will walk into the store, take a look at 3 tvs. The 81 series, 71 series, and the leading toshiba 120hz model at the time. Im 100% walking out with one of them. I am feeling the 71 series most now. 81 series is being killed for me by all these rumors that its going to be limited,pricy, and wont help smooth out the motion blur in my 360 gaming.

I have a collection of over 1000 DVDs too tho, I need a tv that when an upconverted dvd is displayed, It wont look like complete crap. Thats why I must be looking at the toshiba too, because Im hearing bad thigns about the samsung in terms of SD content.

[Admiral Ackbar]

On augest 1st I plan to buy my TV. I will walk into the store, take a look at 3 tvs. The 81 series, 71 series, and the leading toshiba 120hz model at the time. Im 100% walking out with one of them. I am feeling the 71 series most now. 81 series is being killed for me by all these rumors that its going to be limited,pricy, and wont help smooth out the motion blur in my 360 gaming.

I have a collection of over 1000 DVDs too tho, I need a tv that when an upconverted dvd is displayed, It wont look like complete crap. Thats why I must be looking at the toshiba too, because Im hearing bad thigns about the samsung in terms of SD content.

Buy an upconverting DVD player like the Oppo 981, then you won't have to worry about the DVD/SD portion of that.

[studdad]

wtr_wkr

Thanks, that helps a lot. Looks like the 71 would be the best bet. However, what does 120hz mean to me? Is it a faster processor that will help with shadows in moving images? Sorry, I am a newb when it comes to flat panel tech., and really just want an LCD tv without HDMI problems, banding, clouds, Mura, shadows, etc. Is that so much to ask, lol. Anyway, I will be looking at the 71 in a 52" size. I don't play video games on my TV, but do watch a lot of action movies, and hate shadows. Let me also ask you, are the current generation samsungs (65F) only having problems with HDMI when using PS3? If so, then it would not be an issue for me.

[SED <--- Rules]

I'm quite confident that Samsung is gonna successfully pull off the 81 Series. New tech? So what? The LED technology should take care of all the problems of past LCDs...making the 81 series a must buy television. I'm crossing my fingers. If it does what it promises then I'm buying it! :D

[007craft]

Buy an upconverting DVD player like the Oppo 981, then you won't have to worry about the DVD/SD portion of that.

True, But I also do rarely play old gen games (sd content) and I would like that to look decent too.

[Raitzi]

wtr_wkr

Thanks, that helps a lot. Looks like the 71 would be the best bet. However, what does 120hz mean to me? Is it a faster processor that will help with shadows in moving images? Sorry, I am a newb when it comes to flat panel tech., and really just want an LCD tv without HDMI problems, banding, clouds, Mura, shadows, etc. Is that so much to ask, lol. Anyway, I will be looking at the 71 in a 52" size. I don't play video games on my TV, but do watch a lot of action movies, and hate shadows. Let me also ask you, are the current generation samsungs (65F) only having problems with HDMI when using PS3? If so, then it would not be an issue for me.

120Hz means TV is making additional image between two images from media. New image is made by taking average of both images. So this way it doubles refresh rate from 60 Hz to 120Hz.(Hz=1/second) If material is 50Hz then it goes to 100Hz. This technology narrows gap between lcd and plasma when it comes to motion handling. In theory 120Hz makes 24Hz content play without 3:2 judder. Some 120Hz panels work great others dont, so we have to wait and see.The main reason for me go lcd is video games and pc usage. Personaly i think plasma is better for movies, and you can now get 50" 1080p plasma under 3K.(pana pz700)

I have heard that also some westinghouse Lcd's had some problems with ps3. Go and see specific thread about tv you are thinking to buy.(try also ps3 section)

[Mr T]

I don't know where this new technology talk comes from. Local dimming leds have been around since 2005 and are now becoming cheap enough for consumer high end models! There will be no question about best technology on the market until SED or OLED displays become available.

OK Bobo, please provide some reference points/links to existing LD LED backlight TVs please.

[Mr T]

Brightside (http://www.bit-tech.net/preview/hardware/brightside_hdr_edr/8.html)

Use google for sony and sharp mega contrast.

I am well aware of the Brightside announcement and the Sony/Sharp Mega contrast TVs. Where can you buy one? What is the price?

You stated "Local dimming leds have been around since 2005 and are now becoming cheap enough for consumer high end models". This simply is not true. The technology was demonstrated as early as 2005, and again by Sharp at CES 2007, but if you wanted to buy the technology, it cost over $30k for a 37" LCD TV from Brightside, and I don't believe is available for purchase from either Sharp or Sony.

The net of all this is, that's why this Samsung 81-series anticipation thread exists. First production LD LED BL LCD TV to be available on the market from a major LCD manufacturer at what we hope will be a reasonable price.

[phigment]

So is being around for over $30k not being around? Sony and Sharp have some models sold via professional channels.

Okay, let's say it has been around for a long time. Have all the problems been worked out? Let's see some user reviews from people who are obsessive about clouding, viewing angles, or drop outs.

CCFL tech has been around for a lot longer than 2005, and we're still seeing problems with it. I'd say we are likely to see a whole new set of problems inherent to LED.

[wtr_wkr]

...I don't play video games on my TV, but do watch a lot of action movies, and hate shadows...
Old reviews of 120Hz processing indicate it a great benefit for gamers. Movies get judder solved but the motion interpolation was not liked (These are separate features.) Sports are another reason to hope for 120Hz.

For me (PC(, which means sitting close), DVD, sports, SD), I need everything to be >= HD lite. So, I'll either get a TV with HQV or 120Hz with HQV up stream. That's fine for DVDs but what about SD. That could be stuffed in PIP, or relegated to my 14" CRT.

[Haight]

Hmmmm, I wonder how these new Pioneer Plasmas are going to compare to the new Samsungs? Well, they ARE still Plasmas!


Pioneer announces 8th-gen plasmas with 20,000:1 contrast

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08/pioneer-announces-8th-gen-plasmas-with-20-000-1-contrast/

[SED <--- Rules]

Hmmmm, I wonder how these new Pioneer Plasmas are going to compare to the new Samsungs? Well, they ARE still Plasmas!


Pioneer announces 8th-gen plasmas with 20,000:1 contrast

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08/pioneer-announces-8th-gen-plasmas-with-20-000-1-contrast/

The Samsung 81 Series will be as good as the "super" plasmas, but probably even better! ;)

Not to mention better price! :D

[Mr T]

The Samsung 81 Series will be as good as the "super" plasmas, but probably even better! ;)

Not to mention better price! :D

Interesting statement, considering neither Samsung nor Pioneer have discussed pricing on either the 81 series or this new 8th gen Plasma.

[studdad]

Old reviews of 120Hz processing indicate it a great benefit for gamers. Movies get judder solved but the motion interpolation was not liked (These are separate features.) Sports are another reason to hope for 120Hz.

For me (PC(, which means sitting close), DVD, sports, SD), I need everything to be >= HD lite. So, I'll either get a TV with HQV or 120Hz with HQV up stream. That's fine for DVDs but what about SD. That could be stuffed in PIP, or relegated to my 14" CRT.

I am an avid Football fan, so this looks good. You mentioned SD, will it be better on this set than other LCD's? Thank you and Raitzi for your replies.

[SED <--- Rules]

Interesting statement, considering neither Samsung nor Pioneer have discussed pricing on either the 81 series or this new 8th gen Plasma.

No prices yet discussed...yes I know. However, assuming the past history of each companies pricing is the still the same, I find it hard to think the Samsung 81s will be more expensive than the top new Pios.

[Raitzi]

I am an avid Football fan, so this looks good. You mentioned SD, will it be better on this set than other LCD's? .

I think 120Hz is "must to have" for sports fans wheter you like REAL Football or the game you mostly play with hands.(we europeans call it "american football) Quality of SD depends more on processor than wheter it has 120Hz or not. I would say that current Samsungs have worse SD-handling than for example XBR2/3. There will be 120Hz models also at least from Philips and Toshiba, so we have to wait and which one is best with SD. My guess is that Toshiba would be the best of those with SD, but my assumption is based on previous models(eu).

[wtr_wkr]

SD from best to worst(Just my guess): Syntax 7xx, Tosh, Sony, Sharp, Sammy.
Syntax went with the #1 VP, SO's Realta. Tosh's 120Hz may go with Micronas. Sony and Sharp go with home brew, Sharp's being half baked. Sammy will buy something cheap, and even worse, the cheaper the better.

[vinnie97]

Sammy will buy something cheap
How do they justify their premiums then?

[xb1032]

The Samsung 81 Series will be as good as the "super" plasmas, but probably even better! ;)

Not to mention better price! :D

Prices were just announced on the Pioneer super plasmas. I bet the Samsungs will be more expensive. I'm very surprised at Pioneer's prices. I want 60"er and Pioneer's wont come out until September for that size so I'll get to compare the Samsungs to the smaller Pioneers which are due out in July to see which one looks better to my eyes. That is if Sammy delivers in July.

[studdad]

grrrrrrr, why do they do that (cheap SD). I mean, it wouldnt matter if everything was in HD, but hell, most things are not. Oh well, I better hope Directv makes good on their promise of 100 HD Channels by the end of the year (yeah right).

[taurus2007]

Oh well, I better hope Directv makes good on their promise of 100 HD Channels by the end of the year (yeah right).

Or the question is how much are you willing to pay for those? I get a feeling that Directv will jack up the price... :(

[SED <--- Rules]

Prices were just announced on the Pioneer super plasmas. I bet the Samsungs will be more expensive.

I don't think so, but we'll see. Thing is, if the Samsung 81 series 52' tv is cheaper than the Pio Elite 1080p 50' tv, and if the picture is at least as good as the Elite, then I'm getting the 52' Sammy. We'll see when we can compare them side by side. I'm saving up for a new tv, so I'll be until Oct-Nov until I can afford to buy one of these. But it will be money well spent! :p

[valoidr]

I don't think so, but we'll see. Thing is, if the Samsung 81 series 52' tv is cheaper than the Pio Elite 1080p 50' tv, and if the picture is at least as good as the Elite, then I'm getting the 52' Sammy. We'll see when we can compare them side by side. I'm saving up for a new tv, so I'll be until Oct-Nov until I can afford to buy one of these. But it will be money well spent! :p
No one is mentioning the new Sony's due out this summer. Why?

[taurus2007]

No one is mentioning the new Sony's due out this summer. Why?

Probably way overprice just like everything that has a name Sony on it!

[SED <--- Rules]

No one is mentioning the new Sony's due out this summer. Why?

I'm just not sure about the Sonys. They will probably have very good picture quality, but there is no mention of using the LED backlight technology. It might have the regular CCFL backlighting, which really hinders the contrast ratio. LED LCDs (like the Samsung 81s) will be MUCH better than any LCD with the old CCFL technology. Until there is confirmation that the Sonys will have local dimming LED backlighting, I will pass. The 81s and the new Pio plasmas are the most promsing tvs for now.

[jmhumr]

No one is mentioning the new Sony's due out this summer. Why?

Well, as far as I know, none will feature LED backlighting, and only the overpriced XBR series will feature 120mhz. That's not gonna excite a lot of people. I'm extremely curious to see how their summer lineup looks when it comes out, because on paper I don't quite understand how Sony expects to compete with Samsung given their prices. :confused:

[studdad]

taurus:

no doubt. I already pay over $90 for Directv HD.....oh for the days of $22 cable bills, lol. Wait, I think I can even remember when basic cable was like $12 (not counting the very low-end cable that had local channels only for $5).

[taurus2007]

My friend's cable bill is $120 monthly. Talk about major rig off here because most of the stations are junk! I just wish they would let you pick what stations you want and only pay for those instead...

[studdad]

I love the Sony XBR picture, but they have the clouding issue, and ya, they are so overpriced it is a wonder why anyone buys them,,,,,but they do. The only Sony I have ever bought is the one I have now which is the 36xs955. Beautiful TV and HD picture, as well as good SD picture, but a tube. I bought it a couple years ago because I was not happy with SD pictures I saw on Plasma, not to mention price (LCD was was only available on tiny screens).

[791]

So what are the msrp's of these new pio plasma's that someone just said Samsung could'nt compete with? With no prices, I'll continue to assume that the pio's will be at least 8 grand...

[PUNKem 733]

What does CCFL stand for?

[mike123abc]

So what are the msrp's of these new pio plasma's that someone just said Samsung could'nt compete with? With no prices, I'll continue to assume that the pio's will be at least 8 grand...

You are a bit over in your estimate: $7500 for the 60" top of the line: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/press/release/detail/0,,2076_310069589_441157918,00.html

[shishghate]

What does CCFL stand for?

Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp (CCFL) Backlighting

[xb1032]

So what are the msrp's of these new pio plasma's that someone just said Samsung could'nt compete with? With no prices, I'll continue to assume that the pio's will be at least 8 grand...

I don't think anyone said Sammy couldn't compete with them. I said I thought the new Samsungs would be more expensive. My reasoning on this is because a 52" 1080P Sammy model retails for $4k and I'm sure the new 81 series being a new technology item will be a bit more expensive. And since I want the largest size which is 57" (not to many LCDs at this size) I have a feeling they may be expensive. Then again I'm surprised the Pioneer's aren't more expensive as in my opinion they've always been a bit overpriced and this time it's actually justified. The new Pioneers will run $5k/$6k for a 1080p 50" model and $6.5k/$7.5k for a 60" 1080p model. If you want more info on them you need to check the link in the plasma forum. These are the most exciting TVs coming out this year IMO. I just hope the Sammy shows up in July and I hope they make a press release soon.

[kano1977]

when the hell is sammy gonna release a proce for these 81 series dang

[irkuck]

I'm just not sure about the Sonys. They will probably have very good picture quality, but there is no mention of using the LED backlight technology. It might have the regular CCFL backlighting, which really hinders the contrast ratio. LED LCDs (like the Samsung 81s) will be MUCH better than any LCD with the old CCFL technology.

Maybe not MUCH better but only much better or just so-so :D . The LED BL Sammy model available in Europe is not considered much of revelation. CCFL vs. LED does not have impact on CR. LD will have but let's see first if it is immune to artefacts too.

[SED <--- Rules]

let's see first if it is immune to artefacts too.

I really hope so! :o

[Mr T]

I don't think anyone said Sammy couldn't compete with them. I said I thought the new Samsungs would be more expensive. My reasoning on this is because a 52" 1080P Sammy model retails for $4k and I'm sure the new 81 series being a new technology item will be a bit more expensive. And since I want the largest size which