Now that I look at it more, it also has more green cast to the picture than before the lens barrel removal, coolant cup cleaning, reinstall, and raster adjustment.

Has to be something to do with moving the raster, but the colors are on top of each other so I'm at a loss.

Now that I look at it more, it also has more green cast to the picture than before the lens barrel removal, coolant cup cleaning, reinstall, and raster adjustment.

Has to be something to do with moving the raster, but the colors are on top of each other so I'm at a loss.

Seems to me that you're just getting more green now that you've cleaned the crud out of the way. Which was the whole idea, right?

Seems to me that you're just getting more green now that you've cleaned the crud out of the way. Which was the whole idea, right?

OK...what would be the fix for that. Decode again? I want to know before I go into it myself. I have never done the raster adjust either so I will have to do a search for that info.

OK...what would be the fix for that. Decode again? I want to know before I go into it myself. I have never done the raster adjust either so I will have to do a search for that info.

Probably. Would likely also want to redo white balance (drives and cuts). Or put the crud back.:)

Moving the raster is just much easier than reconverging each point on the grid, as long as everything has moved uniformly. Not too many opportunities to take advantage of that feature, but really helpful when you can.

If I had it to do over again, I would probably just leave it alone. The coolant cups didn't have much dust or debris, but I hit them with Sprayway because I had it opened up, same with back side of lenses, not to much stuff but might as well do it now that I've got it open. Note to self: quit getting carried away with the quest for the perfect picture, you're causing yourself extra work.

Yea..I'm reconsidering now. I know I had a big difference in PQ when I cleaned the top lenses and mirror. I mean it was considerable. I figured I might need it for the inner lenses too. Dont know as my set is pretty nice now. I really want to try Mr. Bobs test first before preceeding. THe set is 1 1/2 years old now.

Yea..I'm reconsidering now. I know I had a big difference in PQ when I cleaned the top lenses and mirror. I mean it was considerable. I figured I might need it for the inner lenses too. Dont know as my set is pretty nice now. I really want to try Mr. Bobs test first before preceeding. THe set is 1 1/2 years old now.

Deeper optics cleaning doesn't usually need to be done until the set's at least 2-3 years old. Regular optics every year, but not deeper, and on some brands it's not needed at all. Mit seals theirs the way they should be sealed, so that no dust etc can get in, under the lenses and at the CRT coolant covers. The ones that need it typically have an eighth inch air gap between the lens barrel and the coolant cover, where it all creeps in. Definitely there on Tosh and Pio, have not done a Hit lately so can't say about the Hit's.


Mr Bob

Now that I look at it more, it also has more green cast to the picture than before the lens barrel removal, coolant cup cleaning, reinstall, and raster adjustment.

Has to be something to do with moving the raster, but the colors are on top of each other so I'm at a loss.


If it has a green cast, get a b/w pattern up there and see if the cast is still green. Or disco the Pb and Pr, leaving only the Y if on component, which is empirical b/w.

If there is still a green cast, then it's your grayscale, not your decoding.


Mr Bob

When you locate Cavery's post w/ the jigs, you will also find nearby a few posts from Cavery & myself (surely some valuable input from Mr Bob as well, if memory serves) detailing the proper use of the jig & the size adjustments - translated into "readable" English from the service manual.




I never use jigs. Tried one once and never went back. You might find info from me on the other things, but not on the proper use of a jig.

The centering is best and easiest found by running strings from corner to corner that cross the pic and intersect in the middle.

Don't let them sag, of course -


:p


Mr Bob

If it has a green cast, get a b/w pattern up there and see if the cast is still green. Or disco the Pb and Pr, leaving only the Y if on component, which is empirical b/w.

If there is still a green cast, then it's your grayscale, not your decoding.


Mr Bob

It is on component inputs. What is disco'ing? Do I pull two of the three color cable input and examine the picture result?

I never use jigs. Tried one once and never went back. You might find info from me on the other things, but not on the proper use of a jig.

The centering is best and easiest found by running strings from corner to corner that cross the pic and intersect in the middle.

Don't let them sag, of course -


:p


Mr Bob


Meant that some conv/geo stuff got mentioned by you around that time/those posts, if I recall.

Yes, Bob....I know your aprehension of doing the "jig" :D And if the best possible o'scan levels are desired, a jig will be useless anyway. Mine is now.

Will say that in my case, using the jig got me back to a proper start point with which I then was able to re-do oscan/H-V size/geometry fixes properly.

It is on component inputs. What is disco'ing? Do I pull two of the three color cable input and examine the picture result?

disco'ing = disconnecting. Just an example of AVS Forum shorthand (kinda like D* = DirecTv)

In the case of component video, removing the Pb (blue) & Pr (red) & leaving Y (green) will give you a true B&W source.

Just a heads up to all the F59 folks here..

I posted this over on the F59 HDMI Shift thread, but figure this one gets way more attention.

Believe it or not, Hitachi may finally have a solution to the HDMI image shift problem. And it does not involve a service menu tweak like the previous fix for picture "freakouts" or some user menu suggestion that does nothing (advice some had received some time back).

Nope....Hitachi Customer Relations called me up yesterday. At first, I figured it was yet another "we're working on it & will keep you posted" calls. Nice to keep calling, but save it for a solution!!

The solution may very well be a reality. Turns out, Hitachi Engineering--who it seems really has been working on this problem after all--has come up with a modified signal block assembly that they think might be the cure to HDMI shifting. They need some field testing, though. And they have selected me & my 51F59 to be one of the guinea pigs.

I am expecting an email from Engineering in the coming days/weeks. They will set up a time for a tech--thinking my local Hitachi guy, but could be anyone--to install the assembly (on Hit's dime, of course) & then I report back if any shifts occur. I assume I am not the only test subject they are contacting, so it's possible some other F59 folks here will get a call.

Be assured that there are 2 places I will report the success/failure of the solution, Hit Engineering & everyone here @ AVS.

I've read some of the posts on here and I'm still learning a lot...one thing I want to ask: I recently bought a 51" Toshiba CRT RPTV (51H84 model) from a friend of a friend for $550, it was 2 years old and looked brand new. He originally told me it was a 50HM66 model (the DLP, not CRT) and so I thought I was getting a DLP instead of a CRT. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on his part, confusing models that is--I just want to know what some of you think on the price I paid for the TV, was it a fair one?

Also, honestly I thought maybe I was getting a lesser quality RPTV when I found out it was CRT instead of DLP, but after reading some of your posts it seems like having a CRT RPTV isn't so bad.

I've read some of the posts on here and I'm still learning a lot...one thing I want to ask: I recently bought a 51" Toshiba CRT RPTV (51H84 model) from a friend of a friend for $550, it was 2 years old and looked brand new. He originally told me it was a 50HM66 model (the DLP, not CRT) and so I thought I was getting a DLP instead of a CRT. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on his part, confusing models that is--I just want to know what some of you think on the price I paid for the TV, was it a fair one?

Also, honestly I thought maybe I was getting a lesser quality RPTV when I found out it was CRT instead of DLP, but after reading some of your posts it seems like having a CRT RPTV isn't so bad.

You're asking a good question in the wrong place. This is specifically a Hitachi tweaks thread. You may want to try searching for a Toshiba site (I'm sure there are several), or the Don't Dump Your CRT TV thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=118

I've read some of the posts on here and I'm still learning a lot...one thing I want to ask: I recently bought a 51" Toshiba CRT RPTV (51H84 model) from a friend of a friend for $550, it was 2 years old and looked brand new. He originally told me it was a 50HM66 model (the DLP, not CRT) and so I thought I was getting a DLP instead of a CRT. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on his part, confusing models that is--I just want to know what some of you think on the price I paid for the TV, was it a fair one?

Also, honestly I thought maybe I was getting a lesser quality RPTV when I found out it was CRT instead of DLP, but after reading some of your posts it seems like having a CRT RPTV isn't so bad.

Welcome! You came to the right place, but as Michael says, you need to find a Tosh thread. Or get a CRT grade calibrator on the case.

I was sent info on a 73" Mit that www.Tweeter.com was billing as a DLP. But being a service tech and knowing how Mit puts their model numbers together, I knew it was a CRT. WS 73517. DLP woulda been a WD.

I called Mit tech assist just to be sure and sure enough, it was the CRT version, the latest and last-ever model, with HDMI, PerfectColor and all the bells and whistles they ever had.

Flawless HDMI, BTW, which Hit shoulda just licensed from Mit, rather than screwing around with it for so long in engineering, all the while leaving Hit owners up in the air on their freaky HDMI performance...

Anyway, once I confirmed the model number with Mit, I called Tweeter and asked them if this was DLP or CRT. They doublechecked the model number - yes it was correct - and definitely said it was a DLP.

Right...

So I asked if it was NOT what I thought it would be when it arrived, could I return it? They said yes, there was a 30 day no fault return policy.

So I ordered it, for the $2500 they were asking - rather than the $10,000 they originally listed for the first year they were available from Mit - (free shipping and no tax, as well!), got it home and into my living room, and immediately started tweaking on it, as the Contrast arrived at full tilt boogie Torch Mode, blooming all the letters and forcing them out of focus - surprise me again - and the geometry - image shaping - had a big bow in the upper left area.

No big surprise there...turned down the Contrast immediately to around 1/3 - gotta do that with Mit, their Contrast bargraph is not linear - and straightened out the geometry within the first half hour of operation.

I have been loving it ever since. I was GLAD it was CRT and not DLP, like they had said!

These CRT based machines can be fine tuned to within an inch of their lives, and I can - after MY round of modifications - now sit there 8' away from my 6'1" picture and effortlessly study the grain of the film used to shoot movies on it, with scintillatingly accurate colorations, and blacks that reveal depth far better than most DLPs ever have. And a size that even fixed pixel afficianados respect, because to get that size in fixed pixel is still VERY expensive.

Did I answer your question? CRT tech is where it's at, and at $550 on a well treated 51", yeah, I think you got your money's worth! And then some! Tosh is as capable as any, at getting a crisp, clear picture on either 480 or 1080. The edges will never be quite as good as those of a Mit or Pio, both of whom have an invisible row and column that can be used to make the visible better - but still capable of excellence far in excess of anything short of 1080p, in the fixed pixel realm.

Explore this fine set of threads on the AVS or over at the SPot, if you want the best brought out of her, or just fly me in and turn me loose. Or sign up for a phone coaching session.

Either way, under normal usage if she has been treated right and has no screenburn and has not been at Torch Mode all her life, she's got many happy years ahead of her, of making you very pleased with that fine 1080i picture. CRT is the most mature format out there - it has been making fine pictures for decades, while the fixed pixel crowd is still dealing with limited performance on blacks and blur in their motion, among other things. None of this applies to CRT.

If you want to see what CRT is truly capable of, go over to the Front Projection section and look up the Screenshot War!!!!!!!! thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900831

The greatness of CRT as a format starts showing itself about half the page down -


:cool:


Mr Bob

Wow, thanks for the prompt replies guys--yeah I just realized I was under a Hitachi thread instead of a Toshiba one, got carried away with the CRT discussion :o I feel better about buying a CRT RPTV, I'll check out the recommended threads and hopefully be able to contribute to some discussion--once I figure out just what everyone is talking about ;)

Thanks for the update JWebb. My HDMI shifting happens a lot on regular programming but not much with my HD DVD A20. They called me twice and left messages. I guess I should have answered.

I am officially a ******. Fixed my tint issue. When I went to disco the red and blue component leads to check empirical b/w, I immediately noticed that the component leads weren't in tight. This is no doubt due to how far I had the TV pulled forward the other day to take the screen off and do the cleaning the 2nd time. They are a set I got for cheap @ monoprice.com, and the leads have never fit very firm from the get-go.

I secured the leads and the color fidelity seems right now.

Undeniable proof that there's no cure for stupid. You each have the right to give me a virtual slap upside my head. I apologize for polluting this valuable thread with alarmism over what appears to have been an oversight on my part to begin with.

I am officially a ******. Fixed my tint issue. When I went to disco the red and blue component leads to check empirical b/w, I immediately noticed that the component leads weren't in tight. This is no doubt due to how far I had the TV pulled forward the other day to take the screen off and do the cleaning the 2nd time. They are a set I got for cheap @ monoprice.com, and the leads have never fit very firm from the get-go.

I secured the leads and the color fidelity seems right now.

Undeniable proof that there's no cure for stupid. You each have the right to give me a virtual slap upside my head. I apologize for polluting this valuable thread with alarmism over what appears to have been an oversight on my part to begin with.


I'm trying to slap you now, so please hold still!:D

I figure a question to Mr Bob--which said answer would benefit all the F59 folk--should go here.


If you check out the post I made earlier...or the F59 HDMI Shift Isuue thread, you'll see that Hit has contacted me & a few others here to try out a potential fix for the HDMI woes we have w/ the F59s

Involves installing a new signal block assembly that has been modded by Hit engineers. They think it may be the cure for the image shifting that happens on our HDMI ins.

F59-er vstream was one of thise contacted. He was told that the signal block instal could also require convergence re-adjustment. He balked mainly 'cause his local tech is not so hot (although I believe he's in the SF Bay Area---can Hit hire you for this one, Bob?:D)

Since my local tech is rather good, I went for it. Have yet to hear back from HIt on a date though.

I'm curious as to why a signal block assy would potentialy lead to conv. re-do? Is this assy the board where the TV's inputs are connected?

And yes...I could just use component...but my component ins are all used up (D* HDDVR & Wii) and need that HDMI for the HD DVD player (which "shifts" very little---and only w/ SD DVDs it seems)and a potential BluRay machine in the future. Current AV receiver only has composite/s-video possibilities (time for a new surround system, I fear!!! ;) )

PLus, SD DVDs via the HDA2--upc'd to 1080i--do look better to my eyes than 480i/p DVD upc'd by the TV itself. So gotta have me an HDMI in that works!!

I figure a question to Mr Bob--which said answer would benefit all the F59 folk--should go here.


If you check out the post I made earlier...or the F59 HDMI Shift Isuue thread, you'll see that Hit has contacted me & a few others here to try out a potential fix for the HDMI woes we have w/ the F59s

Involves installing a new signal block assembly that has been modded by Hit engineers. They think it may be the cure for the image shifting that happens on our HDMI ins.

F59-er vstream was one of thise contacted. He was told that the signal block instal could also require convergence re-adjustment. He balked mainly 'cause his local tech is not so hot (although I believe he's in the SF Bay Area---can Hit hire you for this one, Bob?:D)

Since my local tech is rather good, I went for it. Have yet to hear back from HIt on a date though.

I'm curious as to why a signal block assy would potentialy lead to conv. re-do? Is this assy the board where the TV's inputs are connected?

And yes...I could just use component...but my component ins are all used up (D* HDDVR & Wii) and need that HDMI for the HD DVD player (which "shifts" very little---and only w/ SD DVDs it seems)and a potential BluRay machine in the future. Current AV receiver only has composite/s-video possibilities (time for a new surround system, I fear!!! ;) )

PLus, SD DVDs via the HDA2--upc'd to 1080i--do look better to my eyes than 480i/p DVD upc'd by the TV itself. So gotta have me an HDMI in that works!!

Whenever the part of the set that contains the eeproms is replaced, that eeprom set should be located and transfered to the new board. It is your central memory block, and contains HUGE amounts of the data used to super fine tweak these sets, inlcuding the geometry and convergence, and possibly grayscale and colorations as well. Be sure to confront them on that. It may be located on the board in question.

I would be glad to be involved. Have them contact me -


;)

Mr Bob

I am officially a ******. Fixed my tint issue. When I went to disco the red and blue component leads to check empirical b/w, I immediately noticed that the component leads weren't in tight. This is no doubt due to how far I had the TV pulled forward the other day to take the screen off and do the cleaning the 2nd time. They are a set I got for cheap @ monoprice.com, and the leads have never fit very firm from the get-go.

I secured the leads and the color fidelity seems right now.

Undeniable proof that there's no cure for stupid. You each have the right to give me a virtual slap upside my head. I apologize for polluting this valuable thread with alarmism over what appears to have been an oversight on my part to begin with.

I am definetly slapping you:mad:

Just kidding. Did this simple oversight on your part:rolleyes: explain everything or just the color manifestations? I am still debating the deeper optics cleaning. Was there a real need for it? My set is 1 1/2 years old. Have to make up my mind by next week because the family is going out of town and it will be my chance.

I am definetly slapping you:mad:

Just kidding. Did this simple oversight on your part:rolleyes: explain everything or just the color manifestations? I am still debating the deeper optics cleaning. Was there a real need for it? My set is 1 1/2 years old. Have to make up my mind by next week because the family is going out of town and it will be my chance.


Please see post 2257, up above. I don't think you need it yet.


Mr Bob

BTW Mr Bob ur right...USA logo is still burning bright. Who do I email on that? Maybe if enough people complain they will get on board.

BTW Mr Bob ur right...USA logo is still burning bright. Who do I email on that? Maybe if enough people complain they will get on board.

Call NBC and ask for CS. I'll try to find who I talked with about it there...


Mr Bob

I am definetly slapping you:mad:

Just kidding. Did this simple oversight on your part:rolleyes: explain everything or just the color manifestations? I am still debating the deeper optics cleaning. Was there a real need for it? My set is 1 1/2 years old. Have to make up my mind by next week because the family is going out of town and it will be my chance.

It completely took care of the color tint issue. The raster shift, that is common when you remove the lens barrels from what has been previously posted here. I only had to move red one click to the right.

:mad::mad:im having hdmi ,red to blueish isues (from left to right on the front screen )and my pic looks ok at best:(......i have see pics on this thread that are far more greater than mine .can someone please make a video, or a step by step that a 2yr old can do.:D.i have not been in the service area..im scareded:o:o i need to fix hdmi bad ,but i dont want to mess anything up...you guys rock ,i wish i was 1/8 as smart as you guys are. please help :o:o looks like we have a very good tv for the money. now if i can get mine to look 1/2 as good as the pics here it would be way cool.(i was going to trash this tv and get a 1080p led sammy:cool:)but it looks like if i can get some help with this tv it will do for a long while:D:D im not to picky please send some settings that will take care of hdmi/ugly pic but please go sssllloooowww:confused:

//p.s. how do i find out if i can get my tv pro calb. by an isf in the middle of missouri

:mad::mad:im having hdmi ,red to blueish isues (from left to right on the front screen )and my pic looks ok at best:(......i have see pics on this thread that are far more greater than mine .can someone please make a video, or a step by step that a 2yr old can do.:D.i have not been in the service area..im scareded:o:o i need to fix hdmi bad ,but i dont want to mess anything up...you guys rock ,i wish i was 1/8 as smart as you guys are. please help :o:o looks like we have a very good tv for the money. now if i can get mine to look 1/2 as good as the pics here it would be way cool.(i was going to trash this tv and get a 1080p led sammy:cool:)but it looks like if i can get some help with this tv it will do for a long while:D:D im not to picky please send some settings that will take care of hdmi/ugly pic but please go sssllloooowww:confused:

//p.s. how do i find out if i can get my tv pro calb. by an isf in the middle of missouri

I am not a Hit owner, so can't give you specifics like the owners here can, but there are a minimum of 4 threads on Hits just in this section, this being one of them. Some of them are very long running, and have oodles and oodles of eye-opening info for you.

The HDMI fix directly from Hit, that cures all but the hor shifting, has been documented on these threads very carefully by Jwebb, and can be performed by all Hit owners themselves. It is near the beginning of one of the 4 threads, can't remember which. The same thing can be had from Hitachi actual.

Do a Search on Hitachi HDMI fix and jwebb, and you'll prolly hit paydirt. The other guys can point you to where you can find luxurious levels of supertweaking that can be done with these Hitachis. Tho Hits don't look any better than anyone else's CRT RPTV OOB, they are awesome in their potential for then being dialed in to within an inch of their lives! You would not believe the gold mine you are currently sitting on!

As a calibrator, I LOVE supertweaking these babies, and then watching the eyes of their owners afterwards, as they take their first look at the final product!


:cool:


Mr Bob

Got your back, Bob.....& SinrSavdByGrace


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9668868#post9668868

The link to the post in this thread that gives the how-to's (in understandable English!!) for the original HDMI service menu fix.

As to the horiz/ shifting stuff.....as I mentioned in the F59 shift thread, I have decided fo rthe time being to NOT be the beta tester for the modded signal block. I did get a call from my local tech who stated that Hit sent him a work order. However, it's not a job he is willing/able to do in house. Not wantng to go w/o the TV for the expected 2-3 days....esp since it is not really broken....and the "repair" could hose all the geo/oscan work I have done....you get the idea..


I did watch a LONG DVD (but very good) last night...THERE WILL BE BLOOD. 1 shift right up front on the main menu screen, but none for the duration of the movie. Typical shifting for me. Once--if at all--during a SD DVD (never yet on an HD DVD). Just not that concerned, I guess.

If someone else does apply for guinea pig status & the fix is a success...we'll talk, Hitachi.;)

Got your back, Bob.....& SinrSavdByGrace


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9668868#post9668868

The link to the post in this thread that gives the how-to's (in understandable English!!) for the original HDMI service menu fix.

Awesome! You'll have a very smiley-faced owner on your hands in no time!


:p

:) well maybe i will try this myself:eek::eek: the last time i was in a crt tv i took the wrong thing out and lots and lots of oil went all over the place,,not so good is it ...............to MR BOB how do i find someone that cares for the job that you do in my area/what Q. to ask them to see if that they are the one for tne job......im in the middle of missouri . i really need to get this thing dialed in because out of box just isnt cutting it:(


what does isf.... stand for?

isf = http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

oil all over? I bet that was coolant. All the tweaks to dial-in your Hitachi 51F59/57/65 whichever you own, can be done by the remote control through menus arrived at by button and key sequences. Do not open up your tv. These tvs are very convergence sensitive, but when you get a tight convergence setup via the 117 pt user menu ("Magic Focus Tuneup" menu option) they look pretty good for the money. One thing, make sure you don't have anything on top of the tv. Those center speaker shelves that you can get to fit on top of the tv to maybe put a featherweight DVD player or something on- don't do it. No way no how. Its not the weight, its that anything on top with power going into it will setup a low grade magnetic field and in that location it will play hell with your convergence, causing it (convergence) to drift out of alignment often.

SinrDavdByGrace, make sure also that your contrast is set below about 33 or 35 at the highest. Here are settings I found that make my 51F59 look best:

Contrast 30

Brightness 56

Color 40

Sharpness 66 (this one seems to vary greatly, many like it much lower)

Color temp Standard (night setting) Medium (day setting)

Tint In the middle (default)

Black enhance Off
Edge enhance Off
Noise reduction Off


Yours will likely vary by a few clicks. But try to use the lowes brightness setting you can, the lower the brightness, the more the picture will look clear. Higher brightness settings think of as a hazy summer day's air quality, but lower brightness settings, or more specifically the optimal brightness setting for your set think of as a crisp clear Autumn day's clear air quality. Its the transparency of the picture.

:) well maybe i will try this myself:eek::eek: the last time i was in a crt tv i took the wrong thing out and lots and lots of oil went all over the place,,not so good is it ...............to MR BOB how do i find someone that cares for the job that you do in my area/what Q. to ask them to see if that they are the one for tne job......im in the middle of missouri . i really need to get this thing dialed in because out of box just isnt cutting it:(


what does isf.... stand for?

My best answer is to fly me in. Get some fellow owners together and split the airfare, I am good with a guest room or couch to sleep on. When I did my recent MN/Chicago tour, the MN guys only paid $78.50 each getting me there. The Chicago guys came in after I was there, and only had to pay to get me from MN to Chicago and back.

You're going to have to fly someone in anyway, I haven't heard of anybody qualified in your area, tho there may be somebody, if you can find them.

It's just that CRT grade calibrators are getting harder and harder to find. Many of the phone numbers at the ISF site mentioned, don't work anymore. Many of those qualified to do CRT work are now doing fixed pixel only, because it takes so much less time to do. No image structure work at all to do, only grayscale, gamma, luminance and minor colorations work. ISF doesn't teach colorations work either, to rid your set of its factory installed red push. Last time I was at a training, they mentioned red push and demo'd it, but did not teach how to realign it to full linearity. I doubt anything has changed since then, they have their hands full on what they do teach.


If you want it done right I do it all, you can trust that your set will look stellar afterwards. I do regular and deeper optics cleaning, overscan reduction, regular electrostatic and Cantilever Technique optical focusing, astigmatism and scheimpflug where needed, geometry, convergence, grayscale and color and tint optimization. And color decoding realignment to silky smooth color linearity, to totally recapture the subtle shades of the colorations and color combinations set out by the original film print.

If you want to find someone qualified, ask them if they do all that, and check out their rep on the net. Currently my posts on this site alone number nearly 4000, most of which have been contributions.


Mr Bob

:) well maybe i will try this myself:eek::eek: the last time i was in a crt tv i took the wrong thing out and lots and lots of oil went all over the place,,not so good is it ...............to MR BOB how do i find someone that cares for the job that you do in my area/what Q. to ask them to see if that they are the one for tne job......im in the middle of missouri . i really need to get this thing dialed in because out of box just isnt cutting it:(


what does isf.... stand for?

There are lot of variables on settings. A lot of owners ,like me, set our color settings at the mid point (50) and decode the colors in the service menu from there. I would spend the $30.00 or so on the DVE HD disk for Blu-Ray or HD DVD if you have either. If not the SD side works as well. It will walk you thru a simple calibration that will get you up to speed. Just dont mess with your grayscale before that. You will regret it and I think the factory is close on that to begin with. The tweaks that you want to concentrate on are outlined pretty well in this thread. If you cant find them its easy to get in the service menu.

hold menu button down on TV
at same time push and release the menu button on remote
then push the number 8
then push the select button

Your in

go to menu TA1360 ( just cursor down till you find it )

Usually you will want to check your ColorG setting and make sure it is on 00. Then go to RGBout and each setting is a color. If you have a test pattern from DVE on color decoding you can get your colors aligned quickly.

Go to STATG1 and STATG2 and move 1 up until you hit a number you like. Usually 06-07 works. Statg2 has less effect but will brighten whites or dim them. Statg1 is for blacks.

SRTGA will sharpen (I think) the pic. So move it up until you like what you see. I think everyone has different opinions on it but 06 seems OK.

Always push select after a change to make it stick. ALWAYS RIGHT DOWN YOUR OLD SETTINGS!!!!!!

Thats just some quick ones. IF you dont have DVE then just disregard the colors for now.

THe best way is to have Mr. Bob do it for you;) Sounds like you may have had some problems in the past that may preclude you as a tweaker.

There are lot of variables on settings. A lot of owners ,like me, set our color settings at the mid point (50) and decode the colors in the service menu from there. I would spend the $30.00 or so on the DVE HD disk for Blu-Ray or HD DVD if you have either. If not the SD side works as well. It will walk you thru a simple calibration that will get you up to speed. Just dont mess with your grayscale before that. You will regret it and I think the factory is close on that to begin with. The tweaks that you want to concentrate on are outlined pretty well in this thread. If you cant find them its easy to get in the service menu.

hold menu button down on TV
at same time push and release the menu button on remote
then push the number 8
then push the select button

Your in

go to menu TA1360 ( just cursor down till you find it )

Usually you will want to check your ColorG setting and make sure it is on 00. Then go to RGBout and each setting is a color. If you have a test pattern from DVE on color decoding you can get your colors aligned quickly.

Go to STATG1 and STATG2 and move 1 up until you hit a number you like. Usually 06-07 works. Statg2 has less effect but will brighten whites or dim them. Statg1 is for blacks.

SRTGA will sharpen (I think) the pic. So move it up until you like what you see. I think everyone has different opinions on it but 06 seems OK.

Always push select after a change to make it stick. ALWAYS RIGHT DOWN YOUR OLD SETTINGS!!!!!!

Thats just some quick ones. IF you dont have DVE then just disregard the colors for now.

THe best way is to have Mr. Bob do it for you;) Sounds like you may have had some problems in the past that may preclude you as a tweaker.

I would make just a few changes from what Mustang has said. For me, to get into the service menu, I just hold down the TV button, and press menu and info while still holding menu. Then you can just hit the pause button on the remote at any time and go intot he service menu.

I like ColorG at 03. As far as sharpness goes, I use AVIA for that. I turn off SRTGA and I use the sharpness in conjunction with I believe YTGA. I use the sharpness pattern and I get as close to the TV as I can and adjust it until the pattern snows no ringing at all, or as close to none as I can get it. That will give you your sharpest pic as far as the sharpness goes without any extra unwanted artifacting. My YTGA is at 09 I think and my SRTGA is at OO. I have an unbelievable sharp pic, as Mr.Bob says, I can definitely study film grain without a problem. You want to set sharpness so that there is no sharpenening going on basically.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/sharness.jpg
You want to make it so that the little "ghost" images to the left and right of the black lines are gone.

YTGA (I think or is it Youtg)??? Anyway mine is set at 09 as well. I have tried SRTGA all over the place and find it at 00 lacks a little sharpness. Thats a fickle setting because you can definetly dial to much in. It is very hard to make too much difference on the sharpness test pattern on mine. I move it around and cant get much to change. Its pretty good as is but I think I will go back in tonight and play with SRTGA. I know its one of those settings where a lot of people turn it off (00) or run it 03 or higher. I know my up front menu is a poor way for me to adjust sharpness as it barely effects the pic unless it is very high (like 80-100). Dont know why that is but it is. Could be a setting I have on?

YTGA (I think or is it Youtg)??? Anyway mine is set at 09 as well. I have tried SRTGA all over the place and find it at 00 lacks a little sharpness. Thats a fickle setting because you can definetly dial to much in. It is very hard to make too much difference on the sharpness test pattern on mine. I move it around and cant get much to change. Its pretty good as is but I think I will go back in tonight and play with SRTGA. I know its one of those settings where a lot of people turn it off (00) or run it 03 or higher. I know my up front menu is a poor way for me to adjust sharpness as it barely effects the pic unless it is very high (like 80-100). Dont know why that is but it is. Could be a setting I have on?

It's actually YDTL, what was I thinking? Mine looks good at either 09 or 0A. My user sharpness is at 48, I haven't changed the SM settings for sharpness, still at 1c I believe. My APRTR is at 00 as well as SRTGA. With either of those on, I just see noise and artifacts being added, which is easy to see on my set when you have the sharpness pattern up and you turn them on and off.

It's actually YDTL, what was I thinking? Mine looks good at either 09 or 0A. My user sharpness is at 48, I haven't changed the SM settings for sharpness, still at 1c I believe. My APRTR is at 00 as well as SRTGA. With either of those on, I just see noise and artifacts being added, which is easy to see on my set when you have the sharpness pattern up and you turn them on and off.

I have been following your idea of turning things off and generally it works. I haven't been around my set today but I remember playing with SRTGA and couldn't get it where I like. Now that I'm thinking of it I think it is turned off at this time.

My problem is that content material varies so much between different HD channels and even HD DVD's that it is hard to get a good feel. I will look at ST Enterprise on one channel and feel like I have a soft pic. Flip it to another and its sharp. Oceans 13 looks like I have sharpness dialed to the sky while Batman Begins doesnt.

Another example is the food Channel. On some shows...incredible pic. Same channel w/ different show and it looks SD like. USA L &O SVU looked incredible while the next show may not.

I put up the DVE test pattern 2nite. YTDL at 09 is the perfect one for my set. Sharp HDTV had almost no effect on the pattern but did dial in noise in an actual pic so Ileft it at 1C. I may have hit my ceiling on sharpness of pic. I dont want that to be true because i have always felt I could get a little more.

Lenses look good. Mirror and screen are clean. Any ideas??

I have been following your idea of turning things off and generally it works. I haven't been around my set today but I remember playing with SRTGA and couldn't get it where I like. Now that I'm thinking of it I think it is turned off at this time.

My problem is that content material varies so much between different HD channels and even HD DVD's that it is hard to get a good feel. I will look at ST Enterprise on one channel and feel like I have a soft pic. Flip it to another and its sharp. Oceans 13 looks like I have sharpness dialed to the sky while Batman Begins doesnt.

Another example is the food Channel. On some shows...incredible pic. Same channel w/ different show and it looks SD like. USA L &O SVU looked incredible while the next show may not.

That's why I stopped trying to adjust for various sources and just go by the reference for sharpness. My dvd and Blu Ray pic is incredibly sharp with no ghosting or ringing introduced by the TV and Blu Ray player. As far as sharpness goes, you will want to turn off anything extra as it will only introduce ringing and noise into the picture. I have my APRTR off, SRTGA off, HDTV sharpness at 1C, user menu sharpness at 48, YDTL at 0A. Knowing that I'm putting noise into the picture with the sharpness adjustments would drive me crazy.

I put up the DVE test pattern 2nite. YTDL at 09 is the perfect one for my set. Sharp HDTV had almost no effect on the pattern but did dial in noise in an actual pic so Ileft it at 1C. I may have hit my ceiling on sharpness of pic. I dont want that to be true because i have always felt I could get a little more.

Lenses look good. Mirror and screen are clean. Any ideas??

My advice would be to look at that the sharpness pattern really really really closely. Like right up on the set. I even used a magnifying lens to be sure. Turn all the sharpness controls in the SM off. Run sharpness from one extreme to another and notice how one extreme will produce a ghost image on one side, the other extreme the other. Get it so that there is no ghost image, or as close to it as possible. Make sure the black line is just black.Now go back into the SM and turn the sharpness controls on and off and you'll see that they only add things in the pic that aren't supposed to be there.

I also spent a lot of time on my focus, both at the CRTs and at the focus block. I even messed with my blue astigmatism as well. I was fanatical about having as sharp and crisp a pic as possible that was as free of artifacts and noise as I could make it.

I put up the DVE test pattern 2nite. YTDL at 09 is the perfect one for my set. Sharp HDTV had almost no effect on the pattern but did dial in noise in an actual pic so Ileft it at 1C. I may have hit my ceiling on sharpness of pic. I dont want that to be true because i have always felt I could get a little more.

Lenses look good. Mirror and screen are clean. Any ideas??


Have you done the Cantilever Technique for your optical focusing, and supertightened all 3 colors on your trimpot focusing? If your blue was slightly off on its trimpot focusing that's allowable, but I like to do what Lordcloud says, and tighten it up too, even tho it may affect the white balance if changed.

The blue defocusing op you may have read about is for older sets, and it inversely mimics the blue drive. So if your set starts out with too much blue in the whites to begin with - not uncommon on OOB sets - and they slightly defocused it at the factory - also not uncommon in OOB sets - you can both tighten up the blue image and attenuate the too-hot blues in your whites all in one feld swoop, just by tightening up the blue trimpot focus to the max - centering it for the least amount of blue in your whites, which is also the tightest possible focus point for the trimpot - and getting rid of the slight blue defocusing altogether.

I delight in sitting there and studying the grain of the film they used to shoot movies after I am done calibrating a set. The grain is not ee, tho, and getting the ee to the least amount of invasiveness while still allowing JUST enough to sharpen things up, is quite a fine tightrope to walk...

;)


Mr Bob

Have you done the Cantilever Technique for your optical focusing, and supertightened all 3 colors on your trimpot focusing? If your blue was slightly off on its trimpot focusing that's allowable, but I like to do what Lordcloud says, and tighten it up too, even tho it may affect the white balance if changed.

The blue defocusing op you may have read about is for older sets, and it inversely mimics the blue drive. So if your set starts out with too much blue in the whites to begin with - not uncommon on OOB sets - and they slightly defocused it at the factory - also not uncommon in OOB sets - you can both tighten up the blue image and attenuate the too-hot blues in your whites all in one feld swoop, just by tightening up the blue trimpot focus to the max - centering it for the least amount of blue in your whites - and getting rid of the slight blue defocusing altogether.

I delight in sitting there and studying the grain of the film they used to shoot movies after I am done calibrating a set. The grain is not ee, tho, and getting the ee to the least amount of invasiveness while still allowing JUST enough to sharpen things up, is quite a fine tightrope to walk...

;)


Mr Bob

THe answer is no I have not and it sounds like I may need too.

I still have 30 min of your time to use from the last phone consult back when I messed up my grayscale and you saved me. I will email you on the cantilever technique and see what we can work out.

Posted much lengthier comments---and a quick question to Bob---in the HDMI Shft thread....but the signal block test for a fix to the final HDMI problems is back on for me...

As my post over there states, Hit REALLY wants to fix all of our F59 HDMI issues. Pretty amazing for a "dinosaur" TV that has been discontinued for 2 yrs now.

THe answer is no I have not and it sounds like I may need too.

I still have 30 min of your time to use from the last phone consult back when I messed up my grayscale and you saved me. I will email you on the cantilever technique and see what we can work out.

Yeah, I was going to point that out to you.

Just give me a call and we'll set up a time -

;)


Mr Bob

Posted much lengthier comments---and a quick question to Bob---in the HDMI Shft thread...


Put up a link here and I'll look it over -

Put up a link here and I'll look it over -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14123693#post14123693

Really just a question regarding H/V size adjustments (voltage) I made & it's relation to a new Signal Block eeprom w/ 51F59 conv/geo settings from the factory.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14123693#post14123693

Really just a question regarding H/V size adjustments (voltage) I made & it's relation to a new Signal Block eeprom w/ 51F59 conv/geo settings from the factory.

Answered at the thread -

;)


Mr Bob

Yeah, I was going to point that out to you.

Just give me a call and we'll set up a time -

;)


Mr Bob

I emailed you.

how do i tame my red push i have a little to much in the picture.

how do i tame my red push i have a little to much in the picture.

That is a simple yet complicated issue. The easiest way is to turn Colorg in the service menu to 02. Of course this will change your decoder and I promise you, you will not have true linear color. I used DVE HD color bars and adjusted until I had all three colors aligned. It will take a lot of up and down on the registers but it can happen. I did this at Colorg 00. Grayscale needs to be on and if you haven't adjusted it to much and screwed it up (thats what I did) you should be fine. I will look for the post...we must have messed with that topic for weeks.

Some have used Colorg 03 and liked it. Colorg adds circuitry to remove red push but it will tame blue and green in my opinion and dynamic hues of red at 02 will be off. A red shirt may look a littlemaroonish. Try it and you will see what I mean.

As I have said before my set is a 1 1/2 yrs old. I have cleaned the top lenses twice. Thru a phone consult with Mr. Bob (always worth it) I went back inside. I re-sharpied the inside and made it blacker. Also I found (as others I think may have mentioned) that the lense assembly has a gap on both sides..next to the red and blue lenses. The gap is about a 1/4 inch on both sides and lets a lot of light escape. I mean a lot. I cant imagine the havoc it played before I sharpied the first time and it had all that metal to reflect off of. I put black tape over the gap as a fix.

I was too afraid to tackle the focus job (didn't want to try geometry yet) so we did the lense cleaning. Found I had a film of dust in the coolant cups. Also I have always had a funny shade int he left corner of my screen. Can only be seen in white or light backgrounds. Found a big thumb print that the factory left me as a present. It was in the blue lense coolant cover. Glad I did the cleaning. Thanks Mr. Bob. Guess I went over board today but what the heck.

Glad I did the cleaning. Thanks Mr. Bob. Guess I went over board today but what the heck.

Don't know what you're talking about. All in a day's work for me -

You still have 20 minutes left on the half hour you added!


:D

Mr Bob

BTW, everyone....pinkfloyd1973 had his F59 "fixed" with the HDMI shift issue & the new signal block. Original set's DCU holding conv/geo data swapped onto new board.

All conv/geo data transferred perfectly & so far, nary an HDMI related shift!

Result posted on the HDMI Shift thread....

BTW, everyone....pinkfloyd1973 had his F59 "fixed" with the HDMI shift issue & the new signal block. Original set's DCU holding conv/geo data swapped onto new board.

All conv/geo data transferred perfectly & so far, nary an HDMI related shift!

Result posted on the HDMI Shift thread....

Good as mine seems to shift more than others. Maybe the permanent fix is on the way. Did all settings transfer? I would hate to have to tweak everything all over again.

:D
i just did the hdmi fix and the little tweaks on the srtga /colorg and boy that was easy .thank you guys.....//thanks to all //and keep the tweeks coming ...:D im ready to get in the service menu
and rule the world;);)

i think it looks way better. but im the type that thinks if i change the oil i think im getting better mpg:o:o

Good as mine seems to shift more than others. Maybe the permanent fix is on the way. Did all settings transfer? I would hate to have to tweak everything all over again.

You'd have to ask pink, but it sounds that way.

Just FYI. I still can't get much distinction in the sharpness pattern lines in DVE HD. I have to take the user menu sharpness and dial it all the way up or down to get any difference. I really haven't made it a priority because if I have the right feed, ie..HD DVD, a good HD Dish program...my sharpness is real good. I know someone else has said they experienced the same thing. Anyone else out there?

Just FYI. I still can't get much distinction in the sharpness pattern lines in DVE HD. I have to take the user menu sharpness and dial it all the way up or down to get any difference. I really haven't made it a priority because if I have the right feed, ie..HD DVD, a good HD Dish program...my sharpness is real good. I know someone else has said they experienced the same thing. Anyone else out there?

In my opinion, there is definitely a difference, it's just that that difference can be very difficult to detect on a test pattern. I would also say make sure all the sharpness enhancing circuits are off as well. The "ghosting" that you'll see to the left and right of the black lines in the sharpness pattern can be very faint. A very light gray. I actually used a little magnifying lens to make sure I was seeing it as well as I could, but in the end I could see it with my own eyes.

It can also be that on your particular set, it's just as you see it; there is little or no difference. Although I find that odd.

Good as mine seems to shift more than others. Maybe the permanent fix is on the way. Did all settings transfer? I would hate to have to tweak everything all over again.

To Mustang & all other interested parties.....I posted more info on the HDMI shift thread. Despite one brief image freakout early on, my D* DVR via HDMI was stable & shift free for 48 hrs this weekend. The "fix" seems to work.

Also will note in my last Shift thread post that you had better write down every setting (user/service) prior to the board replacement, as set will revert to OOB levels across the board.

Save for the original HDMI freakout fix, that is. That data is still there (in fact, the software # changes to V020 post repair). DCU swap will allow existing conv/geo data to remain, but some DCAM touchups will still be needed.

But yeah.....it seems to have worked.

But yeah.....it seems to have worked.

Congratulations. And thanks for your persistence.
So how do the rest of us get it?

Michael

Congratulations. And thanks for your persistence.
So how do the rest of us get it?

Michael

First step would be to call Hitachi Customer Relations @ 800-654-7013.

Ask to speak to someone in Engineering regarding their recent solution to the F59's HDMI issues (invoving the instal of a new signal block assembly). They should either transfer you or at least get some contact info for Engineering to get back to you.

Should not be an issue if your set is out of warranty (most of ours are now), as it seems Hitachi will be picking up the tab on these (as they should).

Generally, Hit will farm the job out to your local Hit tech as warranty work. May send the new part to tech or directly to you. Mine was FedEx'ed overnight to me, mainly 'cause they really wanted to test the fix out in the wild. Mine & pinkfloyd1973's are the only 2 sets here that have had the mod done, I believe. And perhaps among the potentially small handful nationally - maybe we are it so far??

(edit: To vstream....I know your local Hit tech is not "up to snuff" in your opinion. I hear ya. But, you are in the SF Bay Area, if I recall.....see if Hit will allow Mr Bob to do yours. They have authorized warranty level work for Bob/Image Perfection in the past. He's local, so I don't see why not. And hey...maybe you might spring for a little calibration work at the same time ;)

And to Bob, I assume as always that it's OK to pimp you out here for such things! :D).

For those not familiar, the part getting swapped out is the large board that houses all your inputs/outputs. The DCU is a small chrome "box" attached to the main board, with ventilated sides (looks like a cheese grater), containing the various memory circuits inside. Attached to main board via 4 solder joints - swapping DCUs is far less time consuming than a full DCAM re-do from uncorrected state (original Hitachi gameplan, part came with all service menu sections dealing with conv redo w/ screen jig). The actual mod that Hit performed was not part of the DCU, but in fact another part/chip nearby that in some way governs HDMI output. As often guessed around here, the shifting was a "handshake" issue.

Should you get a repair set up, make sure beforehand that all your user & SM "tweaks" are written down. They will revert back to OOB levels after the board swap, but changing back to written altered values takes little time. As long as the tech takes your existing set's DCU off of it's signal block and installs it on the new block, all your conv/geo/oscan settings will remain intact (but will need some DCAM level touchup work).

The old HDMI fix/software mod I posted WAY back in the Tweaks thread (and shift thread, too)has it's data remain, although your set's software will change to V020---white text, not magenta anymore.

The engineer I dealt with directly was named Oscar. Have his phone/ext#, but not with me @ the moment (plus, I'm not sure he wants to get flooded with calls all by himself!)

I will make my call to Hitachi next week after the holiday.

:mad::mad:well it looks like that i missed the boat on the mod fix mines a year&1/2 old :mad::mad:does anybody know how much it cost yet to get the part and put in........i know it is still way early,but i had to ask

:mad::mad:well it looks like that i missed the boat on the mod fix mines a year&1/2 old :mad::mad:does anybody know how much it cost yet to get the part and put in........i know it is still way early,but i had to ask

Obviously, you missed this line:

"Should not be an issue if your set is out of warranty (most of ours are now), as it seems Hitachi will be picking up the tab on these (as they should)."

:mad::mad:well it looks like that i missed the boat on the mod fix mines a year&1/2 old :mad::mad:does anybody know how much it cost yet to get the part and put in........i know it is still way early,but i had to ask


How did you miss the boat? Did you call Customer Relations? Ask to speak to Engineering about the specific problem (HDMI shifts) and their recent solution?

My 51" was purchased new from CC in Oct 2006. Never bought an EW & the factory warranty expired in Oct 2007.

The signal block assembly/DCU swap costs were eaten by Hitachi. Being that these sets were essentially defective right off the assembly line, it should not cost any owner a signle dime to get the modded board installed.

I got the call from Hit initially because I (and a few others here) registered HDMI complaints with Cust. Relations. 1st reports were given to Hit soon after the 1st HDMI service menu fix materialized & failed to cure the shifting. I even sent Hit some photos of the shift in action some months back from my set as well as another owner's set running an XBOX360 over HDMI. Have been getting a call from Cust Relations (usually a rep named Josh) every couple of months, reassuring me that Hit engineers were still working on a solution. 2 wks ago, I get another call from Josh, this time to set up the board swap & that this might be a fix (Hitachi wanted to test it in the wild before claiming complete victory).

You could register a complaint about the HDMI shifts w/ Cust Relations. That'll get you on a list for call back/email contacts. OR, just state on the phone the specific reason you are calling.

They should fix this on their dime for you & any other owner who wants it done. Don't see why they wouldn't. I could see them issuing a service bulletin for this one soon if they find more peple are getting positive results from the swap.

In the color decoding thread, Owen and myself have been discussing the YDTL setting. On my set, YDTL seems to have an effect on edges. One way it produces a thick black line, the other way, it makes a thick grayish line. On Owen's Hitachi, he says it didn't change black and white at all. What is everyone else's experience with this setting?

And while we're at it, any other adjust adjustments that haven't been mentioned here at all or lately that have impacted the picture?

We'll after almost 3 years, I finally opened-up the back of my HITACHI to see how she was looking. Mr. Bob you were right, my lenses were very dirty. Minor problem. NO Sprayway, so I used a little dish-washing liquid diluted with water & began to clean. I clean them 3 times, even thought after the 2nd time the lenses looked good. I then used a micro-fiber cloth & gently wiped each lenses to get rid of any extra particles. I wanted to black-out the inside but didn't have the right tools.

I then turned the set-on & once the guns warmed-up the picture was simply :eek: ..... As I type this I'm watch Ratituoille with my grandson & the picture is stunning & my whites look white :D

And to think my mind keeps telling me it's time to move-on to a Flat-Panel...

EDIT: Here's a quick DVR Grab in 1080i... Sorry for the glare on the left side kitchen light is on. The wife is preparing some dishes for a family get together tomorrow :cool:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_8905.jpg

BFJ:

I would suggest you take out the screen... it is not as difficult as it sound, and buy some acrylic flat paint and a medium size brush, and do the inside black, also while you have the screen down clean your mirror, on th hits you could use regular windex and paper towels. NOTE windex ONLY for the mirror NEVER for the lenses. Your picture will be even better.

If you want to take it a step further, make a lens hood, 20in by 17.25in and notches on the bottom for the guns made out of black carton.

Good job... looking good.

I just got a nasty "surprise." Finished reading all the posts since I last visited, was in the service menu looking at some of my settings, when I lost the ability of Component Input 3 to receive progressive/HD signals.

You can get a signal, but it's split into two images. Like you're feeding a 480P component signal into a 480i television. Was viewing from my PC when it happened and originally thought my video card died. Screwed around for 10 minutes before plugging the component cables into Input 4 and discovering Input 4 worked fine. HDMI also works fine.

When it occurred, I turned on the television (Windows desktop was fine at that moment) and immediately hit menu-8-select on the remote. As soon as the service menu appeared, my image split in half.

This image splitting occurs with everything. PC/Cable box/etc. And even though I'm feeding HD signals, when I enter the menu, VirtualHD options are accessible. So the input has clearly lost the ability to receive anything besides 480i. It's now an 480i only input (IE worthless.)

Guess my big summer tweaks are done with. I'm gonna do some convergence and ride it till it dies:( Little over 18 months old too.

BFJ:

I would suggest you take out the screen... it is not as difficult as it sound, and buy some acrylic flat paint and a medium size brush, and do the inside black, also while you have the screen down clean your mirror, on th hits you could use regular windex and paper towels. NOTE windex ONLY for the mirror NEVER for the lenses. Your picture will be even better.

If you want to take it a step further, make a lens hood, 20in by 17.25in and notches on the bottom for the guns made out of black carton.

Good job... looking good.

That project my friend is for another day... I need to be totally alone with no one home. My wife was freaking out when she saw me with tools in hands. When I told her what I was about to embark on the look of "Death" appeared on her face.

This may be because I'm not the greatest handy-man around :o

Just happy I was able to clean the lenses without hosing anything.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1044279

You know what, when I turned the television on, I too heard a really loud click. Definitely startled me a bit. I'm thinking I have a less severe (at the moment) version of what occurred there.

BFJ:

Note - windex ONLY for the mirror NEVER for the lenses. Your picture will be even better..

Windex is just fine for the lenses, as long as you don't allow any of it down INTO the lenses, where it will fog up the internal lenses. As soon as you spray it on, get your absorbent wiping material down to the lowest part immediately, to suck up the runoff. Unnecessary with foam Sprayway, of course, but necessary with sprayed liquid glass cleaners. For my wiping material I use paper towels for their incredible amount of absorbency and make sure to be easing the particulates UP and away from the oncoming paper on the one swipe per pass that I do, rather than grinding them down into the surface. A paper towel not abrasive when it's wet, and I find its absorbency is second to none.

It's all in the wrist...

I have heard from Jason at www.highreflectivemirrors.com that the makers of front surface mirrors for almost all applications these days recommend Windex with Ammonia D for their mirrors. Craig Miller recommended against this many years ago, but he had astronomical optics he was cleaning, and Jason says that's a completely different animal from front surface mirrors, and he sees why Craig felt that way, if it was telescope mirrors being talked about.

If you don't want to take any chances Glass Plus has no ammonia in it, and is readily available - unlike Sprayway, which can be kitchy to find.

But there's nothing wrong with using ANY regular glass cleaner on the lenses. The important thing is what you use to get that gritty stuff off, and how you do it, to totally guard those delicate plastic surfaces against being scratched.


Mr Bob

I just got a nasty "surprise." Finished reading all the posts since I last visited, was in the service menu looking at some of my settings, when I lost the ability of Component Input 3 to receive progressive/HD signals.

You can get a signal, but it's split into two images. Like you're feeding a 480P component signal into a 480i television. Was viewing from my PC when it happened and originally thought my video card died. Screwed around for 10 minutes before plugging the component cables into Input 4 and discovering Input 4 worked fine. HDMI also works fine.

When it occurred, I turned on the television (Windows desktop was fine at that moment) and immediately hit menu-8-select on the remote. As soon as the service menu appeared, my image split in half.

This image splitting occurs with everything. PC/Cable box/etc. And even though I'm feeding HD signals, when I enter the menu, VirtualHD options are accessible. So the input has clearly lost the ability to receive anything besides 480i. It's now an 480i only input (IE worthless.)

Guess my big summer tweaks are done with. I'm gonna do some convergence and ride it till it dies:( Little over 18 months old too.

Sounds like your set is receiving a 1080p signal, which does the same thing as receiving a 480p signal into a 480i-only input - gives a double3 image. If you're using HTPC, check that out, see if it is sending out a 1080p signal.

Do you still have one component IP left?

For around $30 you can get a AV switcher from RS that is component grade, in terms of its shielding and separation. 4 in, 1 out, manual, very easy to use and SUPER cheap.

So you only have 1 component IP rather than 2 now. With this cheap little switcher, you'll have 4.

Or go to www.monoprice.com and get a remote controlled one for a little under $100.

Or call Hit and find out how to get it back. You prolly flipped one register in there somehow, you just need to flip it back.

No reason to kiss off your perfectly good CRT RPTV!


Mr Bob

I just got a nasty "surprise." Finished reading all the posts since I last visited, was in the service menu looking at some of my settings, when I lost the ability of Component Input 3 to receive progressive/HD signals.

You can get a signal, but it's split into two images. Like you're feeding a 480P component signal into a 480i television. Was viewing from my PC when it happened and originally thought my video card died. Screwed around for 10 minutes before plugging the component cables into Input 4 and discovering Input 4 worked fine. HDMI also works fine.

When it occurred, I turned on the television (Windows desktop was fine at that moment) and immediately hit menu-8-select on the remote. As soon as the service menu appeared, my image split in half.

This image splitting occurs with everything. PC/Cable box/etc. And even though I'm feeding HD signals, when I enter the menu, VirtualHD options are accessible. So the input has clearly lost the ability to receive anything besides 480i. It's now an 480i only input (IE worthless.)

Guess my big summer tweaks are done with. I'm gonna do some convergence and ride it till it dies:( Little over 18 months old too.


What is the exact model of your set?

What is the exact model of your set?

51F59A.

Sounds like your set is receiving a 1080p signal, which does the same thing as receiving a 480p signal into a 480i-only input - gives a double3 image. If you're using HTPC, check that out, see if it is sending out a 1080p signal.

Do you still have one component IP left?

For around $30 you can get a AV switcher from RS that is component grade, in terms of its shielding and separation. 4 in, 1 out, manual, very easy to use and SUPER cheap.

So you only have 1 component IP rather than 2 now. With this cheap little switcher, you'll have 4.

Or go to www.monoprice.com and get a remote controlled one for a little under $100.

Or call Hit and find out how to get it back. You prolly flipped one register in there somehow, you just need to flip it back.

No reason to kiss off your perfectly good CRT RPTV!


Mr Bob

It's definitely only receiving 480i signals. I screwed around a little more and when I was running the HTPC, the only way I can get a solid picture was if I set the PC to output to 480i. Anything that was Progessive or HD in nature yielded varying degrees of scrambled pictures. So that was a simple verification of my theory.

Definitely not throwing the set away:) Have 1 working HD component and the 1 HDMI. I'll definitely go the switcher route, but I'm more than a little worried that whatever caused Input 3's death will inflict the others.

But, yeah, after looking at the various sets on the AVS forums, I'm praying I can get another year or two cause there's nothing out there that even remotely interests me (except Pioneer Kuro plasma, which has a price that doesn't.)

Input 3 and input 4 are both designed to work with composite or component input. It is suppose to be auto sense. It sounds like it somehow got locked to composite input. If you select input 3 and hit info on the remote, what does it have on the screen? Try it with 480p even tho you have 2 pics you should still be able to read it. Do you have the user manual?

Input 3 and input 4 are both designed to work with composite or component input. It is suppose to be auto sense. It sounds like it somehow got locked to composite input. If you select input 3 and hit info on the remote, what does it have on the screen? Try it with 480p even tho you have 2 pics you should still be able to read it. Do you have the user manual?

The OSD displays fine even when the image is corrupted. When I hit Info on input 3, it is showing the display as being 480i no matter what kind of resolution is being fed.

Edited since I went through and read the user manual. Auto link on Input 3 is supposed to be there and has nothing to do with this. So I've edited it out of this post. But I didn't realize you could even use composite inputs on 3 + 4 (Come on Hitachi, how many composite inputs were really needed?). This definitely sounds like the issue. It's somehow stuck on composite only. Anyone have a clue as to what kind of setting auto sense would be? I've gone through the service menu and haven't found anything in 1360 that seems to correlate. And I don't wanna go blindly entering sub menus that I'm ignorant about (and risk resetting things that shouldn't be.)

I has a bug on my screen several months ago twice in the same week but I have not seen it since. I thought it was a live creature that somehow got into the screen.

The OSD displays fine even when the image is corrupted. When I hit Info on input 3, it is showing the display as being 480i no matter what kind of resolution is being fed.

Edited since I went through and read the user manual. Auto link on Input 3 is supposed to be there and has nothing to do with this. So I've edited it out of this post. But I didn't realize you could even use composite inputs on 3 + 4 (Come on Hitachi, how many composite inputs were really needed?). This definitely sounds like the issue. It's somehow stuck on composite only. Anyone have a clue as to what kind of setting auto sense would be? I've gone through the service menu and haven't found anything in 1360 that seems to correlate. And I don't wanna go blindly entering sub menus that I'm ignorant about (and risk resetting things that shouldn't be.)


If I understand correctly, input 3 worked ok until you went into the service menu, correct? And you dont remember changing anything, correct?

Although auto link has nothing to do with this issue, I would try turning it on and see what happens.

When you hit info on input 3 can you highlight anything and change it?

I looked over the service manual in the service menu section and I'm not seeing anything that would pertain to your problem unless you changed something in the I2C area. If all else fails you may have to try a factory reset.

That project my friend is for another day... I need to be totally alone with no one home. My wife was freaking out when she saw me with tools in hands. When I told her what I was about to embark on the look of "Death" appeared on her face.

This may be because I'm not the greatest handy-man around :o

Just happy I was able to clean the lenses without hosing anything.

I can relate very much to that. I had to wait for every one in my family to be gone for a vacation, and I had the missforune :rolleyes: to had to stayed, then I had the time to do it. Anyways, great job.

I tried all three auto-links settings, but as expected it didn't change anything.

It all happened so quickly, I can't be 100 percent sure. But yeah, I turned on the television, rapidly did the 8-input-select code and I'm pretty sure I lost the picture as soon as the service menu appeared. But I can't be positive it was instantaneous.

I left the house and am gonna be gone till tomorrow, so I can't check anything further right now. I'm fairly certain, though, that I couldn't highlight anything during the info screen.

I had no reason to enter the I2C area. (Assuming that is an area, I'll check it out tomorrow.)

But as I turned on the television this afternoon I had some real gremlins happening (which ended with the television being on antennae 11-1. I don't even use antennae settings.) So either my television is beginning to lose it, or my remote's getting wacky. So if I2C is the first setting in the service menu, it's possible my remote sent some inputs it shouldn't have. My remote tends to get stuck and NOT send signals though. I've never really had problems with it sending additional signals.

I can relate very much to that. I had to wait for every one in my family to be gone for a vacation, and I had the missforune :rolleyes: to had to stayed, then I had the time to do it. Anyways, great job.

Man I tell ya Leo, my picture looks great. Should have done it a while back. I'll take some shots later & post them

hey guys i had some time to take a few shots tonight, (parents are out of the house) and figgered i'd post them, yeah i know theyre small and a tad dark, but thats from the camera.
1080i over component

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/Picture031.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/Picture032.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/Picture033.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/Picture034.jpg

those were the best of the bunch. im going to get some bigger ones in a few minutes.

I has a bug on my screen several months ago twice in the same week but I have not seen it since. I thought it was a live creature that somehow got into the screen.

I have had spiders inside the last 3 CRT RPTVs I have had. It happens. You gotta remove the viewscreen and get it outa there, if you don't want to suffer its repeated return.

Or its babies...

:eek:


Mr Bob

I tried all three auto-links settings, but as expected it didn't change anything.

It all happened so quickly, I can't be 100 percent sure. But yeah, I turned on the television, rapidly did the 8-input-select code and I'm pretty sure I lost the picture as soon as the service menu appeared. But I can't be positive it was instantaneous.

I left the house and am gonna be gone till tomorrow, so I can't check anything further right now. I'm fairly certain, though, that I couldn't highlight anything during the info screen.

I had no reason to enter the I2C area. (Assuming that is an area, I'll check it out tomorrow.)

But as I turned on the television this afternoon I had some real gremlins happening (which ended with the television being on antennae 11-1. I don't even use antennae settings.) So either my television is beginning to lose it, or my remote's getting wacky. So if I2C is the first setting in the service menu, it's possible my remote sent some inputs it shouldn't have. My remote tends to get stuck and NOT send signals though. I've never really had problems with it sending additional signals.

Any chance you're using a universal remote that has accidentally been set to another modality - like DVDP or something - and one of those commands was sent instead of the command you thought you were sending?


:confused:


Mr Bob

hey guys i had some time to take a few shots tonight, (parents are out of the house) and figgered i'd post them, yeah i know theyre small and a tad dark, but thats from the camera.
1080i over component


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/Picture034.jpg

those were the best of the bunch. im going to get some bigger ones in a few minutes.


They look pretty dim, both on the Brightness setting and the overall light level/Contrast...

Sharp and clear, tho.


Mr Bob

We'll after almost 3 years, I finally opened-up the back of my HITACHI to see how she was looking. Mr. Bob you were right, my lenses were very dirty. Minor problem. NO Sprayway, so I used a little dish-washing liquid diluted with water & began to clean. I clean them 3 times, even thought after the 2nd time the lenses looked good. I then used a micro-fiber cloth & gently wiped each lenses to get rid of any extra particles. I wanted to black-out the inside but didn't have the right tools.

I then turned the set-on & once the guns warmed-up the picture was simply :eek: ..... As I type this I'm watch Ratituoille with my grandson & the picture is stunning & my whites look white :D

And to think my mind keeps telling me it's time to move-on to a Flat-Panel...

EDIT: Here's a quick DVR Grab in 1080i... Sorry for the glare on the left side kitchen light is on. The wife is preparing some dishes for a family get together tomorrow :cool:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_8905.jpg

Looks pretty 3D on that shot!

;)


Mr Bob

Mr. Bob its all in the camera. I can assure you that is not what I'm seeing. Thanks to Micheal helping me out with my yellow left thrid of my screen and more work with the decoder my colors are spot on on commponent now. That second Biioshock shot has been posted many times on Teamxbox and is kind of the litmus test for colors and my colors looks exactly like the guys who dropped big cash on a Kuro and had it pro calibrated. I am fairly pleased with my results, just need to get some batteries for the camera to mess with the settings some more.

oh and joe, i said it over on TXB but your shots look awesome now, they used to have like a white cast over them like your brightness was set too high, not anymore.

oh and mr bob or anyone else, what is good ballpark figure for contrast? i have mine at 31% and brightness at about 30% as well with sub brt and sub contrast at oob.

In the color decoding thread, Owen and myself have been discussing the YDTL setting. On my set, YDTL seems to have an effect on edges. One way it produces a thick black line, the other way, it makes a thick grayish line. On Owen's Hitachi, he says it didn't change black and white at all. What is everyone else's experience with this setting?

And while we're at it, any other adjust adjustments that haven't been mentioned here at all or lately that have impacted the picture?

I haven't had time to do a little work with the YTDL setting. I haven't forgotten just need a day to get to it and see what it affects on mine. I believe it adjusted my brightness on whites. Dont remember though. Didn't notice any sharpness but wasn't looking either.

oh and mr bob or anyone else, what is good ballpark figure for contrast? i have mine at 31% and brightness at about 30% as well with sub brt and sub contrast at oob.


Half of full on User @ OOB factory settings is usually the accepted value for contrast. Can't go wrong at 31, but it could wind up being too dim at that value.

In my calibrations, I set everything for midpoint value of factory contrast, with User contrast at midpoint. Remember, all we're doing is centering the midpoints in User, so the owner always has full sweep on how he wants to see it simply using his user contrast control, no matter how the set has been calibrated, when done by me. Other calibrators choose to diminish the total light level allowable at the set, requiring the user contrast to be set at full tilt boogie to be able to have the same light level it used to have OOB at half contrast. I don't change that from OOB, I keep it like the factory had it. My owners know to not use it at Torch Mode already.

On my Mit, I use 21 out of a possible 63, way under the halfway mark of 31. But that's taking into account that the Mit bargraph is not linear, and its midpoint is NOT halfway.

On all other brands it is. Including yours.

Ideally Br is viewed at 50/midpoint by recalibrating the internal sm br. If 30 works for your set, that's fine. If I agreed that that is where your br should be, I would make the same dark/black level happen at 50 in user, but the look on the screen would stay the same.


Mr Bob

That seems a little low on brightness at 31. I have tinkered with mine and have found that the 31-40 level looks real good with black but it tends to crush a lot of the black detail. Thats using DVE calibration disk. That is also going with most accepted tweaks here. I have mine set about 50. On DVE that is the absolute low point I can go before I lose those little bars right next to the blacker than black level indicators.

Thats a hard setting because washout is always near and black crush on the other side of the line. I always gauge mine by shadow detail. Like when a person has a shadow across the face. Is it black with no detail, which doesn't seem realistic.I always dial in enough brightness to show some detail in that area. Which is what I believe is meant to be there. Who knows. Maybe you have a setting that works that i dont.

I just posted on Dont Dump Ur CRT thread about Dish Networks super charged logo. Check it out over there and call them. Mr. Bob's post is right above mine.

Any chance you're using a universal remote that has accidentally been set to another modality - like DVDP or something - and one of those commands was sent instead of the command you thought you were sending?


:confused:


Mr Bob

No. I use my cable remote for most functions and the Hitachi remote to change inputs and do service settings. The Hitachi remote is flaky because the battery chamber is too big and the batteries aren't snug and sometimes lose contact. I've got a piece of foam wedged in there, but it can still be unresponsive (a slap to the side gets it going again.)

I'm beginning to think it was just a fluke that it happened when I entered the service manual. Clearly the input is stuck on composite only and I'm hoping that means it's purely physical with that port. Makes me feel better. And in the event component 4 also goes, I'm fairly confident the HDMI port will be safe since it's like a PCI card and entirely seperate from the component housing.

Been watching a lot of other people's sets lately and just spent 10 minutes watching DiscoveryHD and a Japanese garden at the royal palace and wanted to kiss it. Like looking through squeaky clean window. So as long I can have a working HDMI port, I'll be holding out for other tech too stop sucking so much:) Definitely feel better about my chances now that I know the problem (even if I can't fix it.)

No. I use my cable remote for most functions and the Hitachi remote to change inputs and do service settings. The Hitachi remote is flaky because the battery chamber is too big and the batteries aren't snug and sometimes lose contact. I've got a piece of foam wedged in there, but it can still be unresponsive (a slap to the side gets it going again.)

I'm beginning to think it was just a fluke that it happened when I entered the service manual. Clearly the input is stuck on composite only and I'm hoping that means it's purely physical with that port. Makes me feel better. And in the event component 4 also goes, I'm fairly confident the HDMI port will be safe since it's like a PCI card and entirely seperate from the component housing.

Been watching a lot of other people's sets lately and just spent 10 minutes watching DiscoveryHD and a Japanese garden at the royal palace and wanted to kiss it. Like looking through squeaky clean window. So as long I can have a working HDMI port, I'll be holding out for other tech too stop sucking so much:) Definitely feel better about my chances now that I know the problem (even if I can't fix it.)


Curious, but have you tried unplugging the set for about an hour?

Also have you ever changed anything in the service menu?

That seems a little low on brightness at 31. I have tinkered with mine and have found that the 31-40 level looks real good with black but it tends to crush a lot of the black detail. Thats using DVE calibration disk. That is also going with most accepted tweaks here. I have mine set about 50. On DVE that is the absolute low point I can go before I lose those little bars right next to the blacker than black level indicators.

Thats a hard setting because washout is always near and black crush on the other side of the line. I always gauge mine by shadow detail. Like when a person has a shadow across the face. Is it black with no detail, which doesn't seem realistic.I always dial in enough brightness to show some detail in that area. Which is what I believe is meant to be there. Who knows. Maybe you have a setting that works that i dont.


Your way of shadow detailing it sounds just right. Get as much shadow detail in there as you can before all the black goes to gray. Keep it low enough so that black still clamps to black properly, wherever there IS solid black.

Has to look right when the whole picture is dark, AND when half the screen is bright white while the other half has to show that shadow detail.

Both sits need to work, for br to be set correctly FOR THAT SHOWING. Other showings of other works or channels may need to have the br different.

I always click Leno's Tonight show down a few clicks, till the background of his monologue is truly in the background and hard to see - the desk behind him, etc - with solid br on the foreground.

Their cams are set to average Leno in the foreground with the background as well, which is not the way to do it. The background needs to be a lot dimmer than the foreground, with Leno just right in it, but his background dim.


Mr Bob

I just posted on Dont Dump Ur CRT thread about Dish Networks super charged logo. Check it out over there and call them. Mr. Bob's post is right above mine.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=121

Post #3612.

Please help spread the word. It also has its own thread. You can get attention to it by bumping it up every so often with your comments, keeping it in the foreground, here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1046504


Mr Bob

OK Lordcloud. I was entirely wrong. YDTL affects my sharpness completly. At 00 it is out of focus. Ar 09-0A it is sharp. Didn't see any other effects. I must have been thinking of YOUTG before on whites and blacks.

OK Lordcloud. I was entirely wrong. YDTL affects my sharpness completly. At 00 it is out of focus. Ar 09-0A it is sharp. Didn't see any other effects. I must have been thinking of YOUTG before on whites and blacks.

Yep, on mine it definitely seems to affect the sharpness pattern. What it looks like it does to me, is bring out or subdue dark edges net to light ones. I hope that's describing it adequately. After looking at some more patterns on the AVIA 2 disc last night, my YDTL is at 06 and my pic looks all the better for it. It looks less sharp, more detailed, but smoother. I believe at 09, where I had it before, it was masking a little detail as well as giving the impression of a more detailed pic because it looked sharper, much like a digital. My pic now looks more, seamless I guess is a good word for it.

I also took a closer gander at the Y/C Delay pattern and spent a fair amount of time seeing how the YDELAY adjustments affected it. Before, I wasn't noticing a difference with the pattern, but after a late night last night, I noticed it moved the gray bar relative to the color above it. So I spent some time getting it as close to spot on at 0% as I could. I believe I got it right on, and if not, damn close. It's at 08, where I believe is the default, but not sure.

I so wish we could have hardware and software mods done to this set. I would kill for SDI and HD-SDI input, 72hz refresh rate, 720p native scan, among other things.

I so wish we could have hardware and software mods done to this set. I would kill for SDI and HD-SDI input, 72hz refresh rate, 720p native scan, among other things.

Reality check:
I paid $1000 for the 57".
Anything else you might want?

Reality check:
I paid $1000 for the 57".
Anything else you might want?

I paid less than that for mine over 16 month ago... around $55.00/mth :eek: and counting... not a bad investment! :D

Check this out... if you are looking for a great tv...

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=3&pg=1

If only my wife would let me put one of these in the bedroom...

Yep, on mine it definitely seems to affect the sharpness pattern. What it looks like it does to me, is bring out or subdue dark edges net to light ones. I hope that's describing it adequately. After looking at some more patterns on the AVIA 2 disc last night, my YDTL is at 06 and my pic looks all the better for it. It looks less sharp, more detailed, but smoother. I believe at 09, where I had it before, it was masking a little detail as well as giving the impression of a more detailed pic because it looked sharper, much like a digital. My pic now looks more, seamless I guess is a good word for it.

I also took a closer gander at the Y/C Delay pattern and spent a fair amount of time seeing how the YDELAY adjustments affected it. Before, I wasn't noticing a difference with the pattern, but after a late night last night, I noticed it moved the gray bar relative to the color above it. So I spent some time getting it as close to spot on at 0% as I could. I believe I got it right on, and if not, damn close. It's at 08, where I believe is the default, but not sure.

As far as YTDL..mine is at 09. I really have a problem with soft pics. Thats why mine is so high. Sounds like you have it pretty close to that sweet spot. Before it gets to smooth but before it artificially dials in to much noise.

For some reason I was looking at that YDELAY myself and wondering about it. Funny that you mentioned it. My default is 09 so the factory was real close and you just dialed it in. I cant mess with it until the family gets out of the living room. When they do I will pull up DVE's test pattern and do the same test you did. What exactly is it adjusting though?:confused:

Check this out... if you are looking for a great tv...

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=3&pg=1

If only my wife would let me put one of these in the bedroom...

Sweet! I went to FRY's, and Best Buy the other day. Except for the really high end LCD/Plasma's sets running Blu-Ray there wasn't one that looked as good as mine and you guys (from the screen shot wars) sets. As far as film like quality there wasn't any. They do take the cake for edge sharpness but not detail or depth. I have the opportunity to do some extra work and might spend some of the money on another. I just dont want them to dissappear without getting a back up.

At this prices I am really tempted, it is cheaper than the 27" I got for the bedroom some years ago.

Unfortunetly, if I get it, she'll keep the house and everything in it... well, I think she'll let me have the new tv.

As far as YTDL..mine is at 09. I really have a problem with soft pics. Thats why mine is so high. Sounds like you have it pretty close to that sweet spot. Before it gets to smooth but before it artificially dials in to much noise.

For some reason I was looking at that YDELAY myself and wondering about it. Funny that you mentioned it. My default is 09 so the factory was real close and you just dialed it in. I cant mess with it until the family gets out of the living room. When they do I will pull up DVE's test pattern and do the same test you did. What exactly is it adjusting though?:confused:

As time permits, I'll mess with this settings too, and report findings.

Reality check:
I paid $1000 for the 57".
Anything else you might want?

I paid $1,000 for my 51". But I am absolutely anal about picture quality and I would love to get as much as I can out of this set. Especially when I know what's capable with mods now a days. 72hz, is something I really really want, from blu ray and dvd. I would also love a blue defocus on the set at well. I would put more into the set if I could to get the best PQ I can. I look at the low price I paid as a great deal and a good reason to spend more afterwards as opposed to paying thousands more to "upgrade" to what I would view as an inferior set.

Look at the mods Mike Parker is doing to the Marquees, exciting stuff. As well as some other mods being done by other folks. I'm just greedy I guess.

As far as YTDL..mine is at 09. I really have a problem with soft pics. Thats why mine is so high. Sounds like you have it pretty close to that sweet spot. Before it gets to smooth but before it artificially dials in to much noise.

For some reason I was looking at that YDELAY myself and wondering about it. Funny that you mentioned it. My default is 09 so the factory was real close and you just dialed it in. I cant mess with it until the family gets out of the living room. When they do I will pull up DVE's test pattern and do the same test you did. What exactly is it adjusting though?:confused:

I think it's close to that point. The picture really looks smooth, but at the same time very resolving. I also have a problem with soft pics, but now looking at it, it seems as though I had too much "stuff" going on in the pic and now it's cleared up.

Adjusting Y/C delay, based on what I have read, is basically making sure the b/w and the color signal arrive at the same time or as close to the same time as possible. When it is off, it looks as though convergence is off a bit since the signals don't arrive simultaneously. When I looked at the pattern, I turned the YDELAY control all the way up and then all the way down so I could see what was going on. Do that, and you'll see exactly what you need to do. Too far in either direction messes edges up.

I think it's close to that point. The picture really looks smooth, but at the same time very resolving. I also have a problem with soft pics, but now looking at it, it seems as though I had too much "stuff" going on in the pic and now it's cleared up.

Adjusting Y/C delay, based on what I have read, is basically making sure the b/w and the color signal arrive at the same time or as close to the same time as possible. When it is off, it looks as though convergence is off a bit since the signals don't arrive simultaneously. When I looked at the pattern, I turned the YDELAY control all the way up and then all the way down so I could see what was going on. Do that, and you'll see exactly what you need to do. Too far in either direction messes edges up.

AVIA has a Y/C Delay pattern for you. It LOOKS like converence error, but is not, because the delay only shows itself under certain color conditions. B/W is not one of them!

Be sure and employ Repeat Pattern ON before you go into the vast array of available patterns in there.

It's lower left corner of the main selections, after you have chosen up the master patterns election, of the first 4 main topics.


Mr Bob

AVIA has a Y/C Delay pattern for you. It LOOKS like converence error, but is not, because the delay only shows itself under certain color conditions. B/W is not one of them!

Be sure and employ Repeat Pattern ON before you go into the vast array of available patterns in there.

It's lower left corner of the main selections, after you have chosen up the master patterns election, of the first 4 main topics.


Mr Bob

Yeah, I used the Y/C Delay pattern to set it. I adjusted until it was as close to 0% as possible.

I didn't see the repeat pattern option on AVIA 2 unfortunately. Which sucks ass. I'll look again today.

I would also love a blue defocus on the set as well.

It's got that!

Curious, but have you tried unplugging the set for about an hour?

Also have you ever changed anything in the service menu?

Sorry about the delay, kind of forgot about the thread.

I left in unplugged the entire night with no benefit.

And, yeah, I've done almost every tweak and mod you can do. Last time I'd previously touched the service menu was March, but everything has been tweaked a hundred times over. Was planning to do Mr. Bob's Scheimpfluge tweak this summer, but I'm pretty sure I eyeballed the mechanical and electronic focus near their optimal settings anyway. So I think I'm just gonna stop. Once a year deep cleanings and 6 month convergence tweaks sound like a healthy plan.

Although I reserve the right to get bored and still do it one of these months. I shouldn't make a bunch of work for myself (for little gain), but that doesn't mean I won't.

It's got that!

We have the possibility to focus the blue gun as tightly as is possible, but it isn't possible to focus it as tightly s the blue and green guns. Some FP CRTs have the capability in the SM to to have blue be as tight as the other two guns. Of course, you have to re-do your grayscale and you may never be able to align it perfectly without the help of a VP, but I wold at least like to have the option, you have the potential for a tighter pic with the blue as tight as the other two. If there is something I missed, please let me know though. As far as I know, the blue is just not focused as tightly and there's noting we can do about it.

As far as I know, the blue is just not focused as tightly and there's noting we can do about it.

You were asking about DEfocus.
Apparently, our eyes can't see blue that well, anyway, so it (probably) wouldn't make that much of a difference.

You were asking about DEfocus.
Apparently, our eyes can't see blue that well, anyway, so it (probably) wouldn't make that much of a difference.

I should have been more clear, I want a mode that gives us zero blue defocus.

Having blue defocused takes away from the pic in my opinion. I would much rather have all three guns razor sharp as opposed to any gun out of focus. I think this is also one reason RP CRT is not as sharp as it can be. I think it would make an appreciable difference, our eyes can't see blue as well, but we can still see it. I still see it on CRT displays.

I should have been more clear, I want a mode that gives us zero blue defocus.

Okay, so now it's up to the techies:
Any way of moving the lens assembly, adding/changing something to just the blue gun to get it "better" focused?

Okay, so now it's up to the techies:
Any way of moving the lens assembly, adding/changing something to just the blue gun to get it "better" focused?

Astig is your best bet. Some sets have the correcting mag rings on all 3 guns, some on just red and green, some not at all.

On a fine 480p circlehatch grid, like AVIA's:

If you can make out the little hor dashes that make up the vert line and can see that they shift their angles with your turning of their trimpot on blue focus of the focus block, those dashes should be straight horizontal. You will notice that their being horizontal, angles itself up and down with the turning of the blue focus trimpot. Get it as straightly hor as you can.

If you can see where the vert and hor are not symmetrical with each other as you turn that same trimpot - that there is one setting of the trimpot that makes the vert the tightest while there's a completely different setting that makes the hor the tightest - then you have astig error.

Astig is at its best - and delivers the tightest dot - when the hor and vert have exactly the same setting of that trimpot. NOT when the tightest delivery is 2 different settings, 1 for vert vs. another for hor.

If the tightness shifts from hor to vert with that trimpot, you have astig error. If it does not - if the tightest dot is delivered on only ONE setting of that trimpot for both hor and vert - then your astig is the best and tightest it can be.

If it's not the tightest it can be and there are no astig corr mag rings, you're kinda outa luck. Unless you can fit a set of astig magnets onto your CRT neck and find exactly where it should be placed, on there, for maximum effect.

Different CRT necks are of different widths, so that might be a trick, pulling that off. And testing for where it should be, on the long length of the neck, would be another trick to pull off.

A good guide would be if one Hit series has the astig mags and another does not, you could use the one that does as a guide.

If your red and green have them but your blue does not, equipping your blue with them would deliver the same results as they do on the red and green, as all 3 of the guns are ID to each other except for the color of the phosphors on the face of each one. If your set has them on red and green but not blue, you could order a set ostensibly for red or green and mount it on the blue, being as careful as possible to replicate its position on blue from where it is already, on the red and green guns.

Then do the beam forming op for astig using a dot pattern, to get the out of focus dot as tight and symmetrically round as it can be, before tightening it up again to the tightest it can be, for viewing. For the astig or sch op, you temporarily put it out of focus with the focus trimpot for astig, with the lens itself for scheimpflug.

Once you have maximized the alignment for the tightest dot possible, you put it back into focus.


Mr Bob

I tried searching but didn't find anything so forgive me if it's already there...

I'm having trouble with "gamma" (the best description I can think of). My contrast is way too high. My blacks are too dark and my whites are too white. Is there any way to "even it out" a bit? I have my contrast a 0 and whites are sometimes overly white and I lose detail in white parts. I also have blacks that are too dark and I lose detail there too. I can wash everything out with the brightness to get the detail but I don't want it to stay that way...

Any suggestions?

Anyone have a list of what all the things in the service menu do?

Thanks...

I tried searching but didn't find anything so forgive me if it's already there...

I'm having trouble with "gamma" (the best description I can think of). My contrast is way too high. My blacks are too dark and my whites are too white. Is there any way to "even it out" a bit? I have my contrast a 0 and whites are sometimes overly white and I lose detail in white parts. I also have blacks that are too dark and I lose detail there too. I can wash everything out with the brightness to get the detail but I don't want it to stay that way...

Any suggestions?

Anyone have a list of what all the things in the service menu do?

Thanks...

I have never found this to be the case on an OOB Hit. How did yours get this way? 0 contrast on a possible 100 should give you a very dim picture, with NO white crush even possible. 50 on a possible 100 should not be getting you white crush, either.

Are your optics freshly cleaned?


Mr Bob

I tried searching but didn't find anything so forgive me if it's already there...

I'm having trouble with "gamma" (the best description I can think of). My contrast is way too high. My blacks are too dark and my whites are too white. Is there any way to "even it out" a bit? I have my contrast a 0 and whites are sometimes overly white and I lose detail in white parts. I also have blacks that are too dark and I lose detail there too. I can wash everything out with the brightness to get the detail but I don't want it to stay that way...

Any suggestions?

Anyone have a list of what all the things in the service menu do?

Thanks...

Did you make any changes under SM... and if so, what. The Service manual has a list of all the standard (default) settings and a very short vague description of what is what. The best way of knowing what settings change what is by changing them... However, DO NOT forget to write down your original settings!!!!

I have never found this to be the case on an OOB Hit. How did yours get this way? 0 contrast on a possible 100 should give you a very dim picture, with NO white crush even possible. 50 on a possible 100 should not be getting you white crush, either.

Are your optics freshly cleaned?


Mr Bob

It was a refurb from the uecweb site. I DO exaggerate a bit...it's not quite as bad as I suggested...but contrast even down to 0 has a decently bright picture in a darkened room. Maybe I'm too used to my Barco and having a dim picture, but it seems to be sometimes excessively bright even at contrast 0.

I did change the STATG1, it seemed to help a little, #1 was at 0, I changed it to 6 as suggested, then back to 1 which seemed to darken it up a notch. It was on that "quick reference" someone made. I'd REALLY like to know how I can change the "gamma"...how I can take a little off the "service contrast" to get an overall better picture. Many channels (Dish HD package with 622i DVR) look really nice, others are "overpowered in the whites".

So, where do I take a "little off the contrast"?

So, where do I take a "little off the contrast"?

SUB-BRT service manual = 7F, my OOB default = 72
SUBCNT service manual = 12

Or, with the money you saved, fly in Mr. Bob and have the best picture in town for the life of the set.
Or, with somewhat less of the money you saved, buy an Eye-One and get it closer to good yourself.

Good luck, and welcome aboard (it took you long enough;)).

Michael

SUB-BRT service manual = 7F, my OOB default = 72
SUBCNT service manual = 12

Or, with the money you saved, fly in Mr. Bob and have the best picture in town for the life of the set.
Or, with somewhat less of the money you saved, buy an Eye-One and get it closer to good yourself.

Good luck, and welcome aboard (it took you long enough;)).

Michael

Thanks...I'll try that tonight.

What exactly is an "Eye-One"?

Thanks for the welcome...I had to wait for the right price...I'm a cheap bastard!

Thanks...I'll try that tonight.

What exactly is an "Eye-One"?

Thanks for the welcome...I had to wait for the right price...I'm a cheap bastard!

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436

used with this FREE software:

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

and this guide to show you how:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Less than $150 and many hours of tweaking fun, if you're into that kind of thing, which you should be, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Or just be happy that you got a great deal on a fabulous set.

Michael

LastButNotLeast,

Thanks again for the info...I dialed it in pretty good last night. I'm quite happy with the picture now...MUCH better than before!

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436

used with this FREE software:

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

and this guide to show you how:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Less than $150 and many hours of tweaking fun, if you're into that kind of thing, which you should be, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Or just be happy that you got a great deal on a fabulous set.

Michael


Amazon has the Spyder2 Express for $50.00. Not as good as the Eye-one but if you want tho get in the cheap, and like all this technology and tweaking your set.. 50 bucks is a great deal.

You might find yourself doing, compter screens, loptops and ofcourse TVs after you buy this. :D

Hey guys. Just wanted to chime in . I cleaned the inside of the set yesterday on my over 2 year old Hit. Cleaned the mirror and painted the inside black.

WOW. What a difference. I believe its even better than new. Painting the inside definatley helped and the mirror was dirty. Even a few cobwebs inside. Most noticable improvement I can see so far is overall brightness and contrast. I had to go down 3 clicks on each after doing this. Also white text looks sooo much better and clearer now.

Everyone should do this. It is so easy. I will also note my mirrior was all smudged up. This had to be from the factory. There were obvious streaks and smudges all over the mirror prior to me cleaning it.

Hey guys. Just wanted to chime in . I cleaned the inside of the set yesterday on my over 2 year old Hit. Cleaned the mirror and painted the inside black.

WOW. What a difference. I believe its even better than new. Painting the inside definatley helped and the mirror was dirty. Even a few cobwebs inside. Most noticable improvement I can see so far is overall brightness and contrast. I had to go down 3 clicks on each after doing this. Also white text looks sooo much better and clearer now.

Everyone should do this. It is so easy. I will also note my mirrior was all smudged up. This had to be from the factory. There were obvious streaks and smudges all over the mirror prior to me cleaning it.

If you haven't done your lens tops - and bottoms and CRT covers if they need it - you're only halfway home. Check your lens tops by shining a strong flashlight onto their surfaces FROM THE SIDE. Observe from in front while hitting them from the side with light. That way you can readily see how dirty they actually are.

It also helps to have something really bright on your screen, to see the layering of dirt on the lenses directly. If you get tempted to draw a happy face on them because they are so dirty, be sure to lick your finger first, so you don't scratch them!

:D

Be careful what methods you use, those lens surfaces in there are plastic and are incredibly susceptible to being scratched, and that's permanent. Don't just shoot from the hip on this. Do your homework before you take the test. You don't get a do-over on this op if you screw up.


Mr Bob

Amazon has the Spyder2 Express for $50.00. Not as good as the Eye-one....

Problem is that reviews strongly suggest that many Spyder2's are really, really bad. Not all of them, just some of them. So the $50 is a gamble. Better to spend more and have a better chance of getting it right, IMHO.

Problem is that reviews strongly suggest that many Spyder2's are really, really bad. Not all of them, just some of them. So the $50 is a gamble. Better to spend more and have a better chance of getting it right, IMHO.

I'd read somewhere that 30% are flakey... but then again the praice is a third of the eye-one.

Buy 3 Spyders, probabilities say that you will get two good ones, keep one and sell one for over what you payed on Ebey, you still cheaper than buying a eye-one, j/k. :rolleyes:

Hey guys. Just wanted to chime in . I cleaned the inside of the set yesterday on my over 2 year old Hit. Cleaned the mirror and painted the inside black.

WOW. What a difference. I believe its even better than new. Painting the inside definatley helped and the mirror was dirty. Even a few cobwebs inside. Most noticable improvement I can see so far is overall brightness and contrast. I had to go down 3 clicks on each after doing this. Also white text looks sooo much better and clearer now.

Everyone should do this. It is so easy. I will also note my mirrior was all smudged up. This had to be from the factory. There were obvious streaks and smudges all over the mirror prior to me cleaning it.

May want to do the lens hood while your in there. You definetly have the right idea about stray light bouncing around. I would suggest the lens hood (real easy) and sealing the gaps on the sides of the lens assembly. A piece of black tape will do that. YOu will be suprised how much light is escaping from there.

I'd read somewhere that 30% are flakey... but then again the praice is a third of the eye-one.

Buy 3 Spyders, probabilities say that you will get two good ones, keep one and sell one for over what you payed on Ebey, you still cheaper than buying a eye-one, j/k. :rolleyes:

The hard part is figuring out which one's good!
There's an old saying: if you have one watch, you know what time it is; if you have two, you're never sure.

Maybe find an i1 on eBay? (haven't looked, myself).

The hard part is figuring out which one's good!.

We'll come up with a logarithm and a universal mathematical formula that empiracally will give us the absolute of the right Spyder2.

Isn't thats why we have computers for?

oh wait...wait.

we have computers so we can check the grayscale, gamma and colors graphically for our set.

I would suggest.......sealing the gaps on the sides of the lens assembly. A piece of black tape will do that. YOu will be suprised how much light is escaping from there.

I must have been asleep when we talked about this one. Refresh my memory again. :)

I must have been asleep when we talked about this one. Refresh my memory again. :)

We spoke about it a couple of weeks ago. at the bottom of the lense assembly there are gaps on the right and left sides. I believe its next to the red and blue lenses. Open it up and turn on the set with a picture running. You will clearly see the light glaring out both sides. If you look at portions of the assembly you can see foam that seals the green from doing this but its left off on the sides. One strip of electrical tape and your done. May not need it if you used cloth to black it out as this may have covered it already.

We'll come up with a logarithm and a universal mathematical formula that empiracally will give us the absolute of the right Spyder2.

Isn't thats why we have computers for?

And the answer is.......

42!

We spoke about it a couple of weeks ago. at the bottom of the lense assembly there are gaps on the right and left sides. I believe its next to the red and blue lenses. Open it up and turn on the set with a picture running. You will clearly see the light glaring out both sides. If you look at portions of the assembly you can see foam that seals the green from doing this but its left off on the sides. One strip of electrical tape and your done. May not need it if you used cloth to black it out as this may have covered it already.

Wow, how the hell did I miss that? I started a new job and I'm beat, otherwise I'd have to do it now! I'll do it this weekend and report back.

We spoke about it a couple of weeks ago. at the bottom of the lense assembly there are gaps on the right and left sides. I believe its next to the red and blue lenses. Open it up and turn on the set with a picture running. You will clearly see the light glaring out both sides. If you look at portions of the assembly you can see foam that seals the green from doing this but its left off on the sides. One strip of electrical tape and your done. May not need it if you used cloth to black it out as this may have covered it already.

:) Couple weeks ago? I posted pictures of that over a year ago.

:) Couple weeks ago? I posted pictures of that over a year ago.

I'm the oldest 32 year old in the world when it comes to my memory. I don;t remember seeing that at all.

It was in post #2304. Here is that post.


As I have said before my set is a 1 1/2 yrs old. I have cleaned the top lenses twice. Thru a phone consult with Mr. Bob (always worth it) I went back inside. I re-sharpied the inside and made it blacker. Also I found (as others I think may have mentioned) that the lense assembly has a gap on both sides..next to the red and blue lenses. The gap is about a 1/4 inch on both sides and lets a lot of light escape. I mean a lot. I cant imagine the havoc it played before I sharpied the first time and it had all that metal to reflect off of. I put black tape over the gap as a fix.

I was too afraid to tackle the focus job (didn't want to try geometry yet) so we did the lense cleaning. Found I had a film of dust in the coolant cups. Also I have always had a funny shade int he left corner of my screen. Can only be seen in white or light backgrounds. Found a big thumb print that the factory left me as a present. It was in the blue lense coolant cover. Glad I did the cleaning. Thanks Mr. Bob. Guess I went over board today but what the heck.

I'm the oldest 32 year old in the world when it comes to my memory. I don;t remember seeing that at all.

I'm pretty sure I first posted it with descriptions and pictures of my lens hood. Probably got lost in a maze of text:)

I'm pretty sure I first posted it with descriptions and pictures of my lens hood. Probably got lost in a maze of text:)

I'm sure you did. I remember it being brought up but couldnt remember who and when. This was just the last time we talked about it. I was pretty shocked that Hitachi would have left it like that.

Just a reminder to everyone that has never cleaned the optics. I had that full sized thumbprint on my blue coolant cover.

Just a reminder to everyone that has never cleaned the optics. I had that full sized thumbprint on my blue coolant cover.

And of course even without that thumbprint in the equation, how did the optics cleaning affect your picture, on the 8 other lens surfaces involved in the regular plus deeper optics cleaning? (9 besides the blue coolant cover when including mirror, 10 surfaces total...)

;)


Mr Bob

I'd like as comprehensive a list as possible of what everything in the service menu does...possible? Anyone have one handy?

Thanks guys...

I'd like as comprehensive a list as possible of what everything in the service menu does...possible? Anyone have one handy?

Thanks guys...

What you want is the service manual. Fortunately for you, available here:

http://www.vancebaldwin.com/

Guest Login -> login -> under model # enter "57F59" -> download one of the pdf's.

Happy reading!

And of course even without that thumbprint in the equation, how did the optics cleaning affect your picture, on the 8 other lens surfaces involved in the regular plus deeper optics cleaning? (9 besides the blue coolant cover when including mirror, 10 surfaces total...)

;)


Mr Bob

Made ahuge difference. Just the top lense cleaning makes an incredible diff. Once I did the mirror and deeper optics it was even bigger. Right now I have a very film like picture on a good HD channel or HD DVD. My problem is like every one elses here. This TV has so much potential for adjustments and improvements that I'm never satisfied. Which to be honest is a lot of fun.

My problem is like every one elses here. This TV has so much potential for adjustments and improvements that I'm never satisfied. Which to be honest is a lot of fun.

Ain't it the truth!!!! Don't torture yourself by going into the CRT forums and reading about how much modification is possible with CRT, you'll go crazy knowing there's no one to do that to your CRT set. Or at least I did.

Can you imagine being able to up the refresh rate to 72hz? No 2-3 pulldown, smooth pans!!! Upping the bandwidth and getting a super clean picture!! AAGGGHHHH!!!!!! Why, Mike Parker, why???

Ain't it the truth!!!! Don't torture yourself by going into the CRT forums and reading about how much modification is possible with CRT, you'll go crazy knowing there's no one to do that to your CRT set. Or at least I did.

Can you imagine being able to up the refresh rate to 72hz? No 2-3 pulldown, smooth pans!!! Upping the bandwidth and getting a super clean picture!! AAGGGHHHH!!!!!! Why, Mark Parker, why???

I think he meant the FRONT pj CRT section, here. Ours are CRTs too, just RPTV CRTs. And no, Mike Parker won't be making mods available for them, I'm afraid...

:(

Echo everything he says, tho! Just glad so much TLC IS available for our CRT RPTVs! The look they CAN have is so sizzlingly over the top compared to non-calibrated/non-TLC'd CRT sets owned by Joe Sixpack, who runs it at Torch Mode at all times, never has the optics cleaned or the conv tightened up, nor the grayscale and colorations matched up to the industry standards, for capturing exactly what the director intended...

All these things ARE available with CRT RPTV.

Calibrated/TLC'd RPTV is a serious and highly attractive middle ground between the stuff we can all afford but then can improve immensely, and the really serious stuff the big guys have -

:cool:


Mr Bob

I think he meant the FRONT pj CRT section, here. Ours are CRTs too, just RPTV CRTs. And no, Mike Parker won't be making mods available for them, I'm afraid...

:(

Echo everything he says, tho! Just glad so much TLC IS available for our CRT RPTVs! The look they CAN have is so sizzlingly over the top compared to non-calibrated/non-TLC'd CRT sets owned by Joe Sixpack, who runs it at Torch Mode at all times, never has the optics cleaned or the conv tightened up, nor the grayscale and colorations matched up to the industry standards,

for capturing exactly what the director intended...

All these things ARE available with CRT RPTV.

Calibrated/TLC'd RPTV is a serious and highly attractive middle ground between the stuff we can all afford but then can improve immensely, and the really serious stuff the big guys have -

:cool:


Mr Bob

Yep, I meant FP CRT.

Agree wholeheartedly, I'm looking at a tv in front of me that just blows me away every time I look at it. Not harsh at all, smooth and creamy and high as hell res! It is without question the best looking TV I've ever seen. I can only imagine if RP CRT tech was still being manufactured and R and D'd what we would have had this year or next. 1080p 72hz anyone?

Yep, I meant FP CRT.

Agree wholeheartedly, I'm looking at a tv in front of me that just blows me away every time I look at it. Not harsh at all, smooth and creamy and high as hell res! It is without question the best looking TV I've ever seen. I can only imagine if RP CRT tech was still being manufactured and R and D'd what we would have had this year or next. 1080p 72hz anyone?

Yum!

;)

Yep, I meant FP CRT.

I can only imagine if RP CRT tech was still being manufactured and R and D'd what we would have had this year or next. 1080p 72hz anyone?

I just keep wishing that Hitachi or someone would realize that and bring out one new CRT set every couple of years. I bet they still have the infrastructure to do it. I mean the oooooh aaaah period should be almost over with LCD/Plasma. especially since only the real expensive models really have the great pic people thought they were getting.

Hey guys, I finally got a a blog of my own> If you could help me out with some traffic it would be awesome. The X Button (http://blog.mlive.com/xbutton) Thanks.

I just keep wishing that Hitachi or someone would realize that and bring out one new CRT set every couple of years. I bet they still have the infrastructure to do it. I mean the oooooh aaaah period should be almost over with LCD/Plasma. especially since only the real expensive models really have the great pic people thought they were getting.

Call them. They seem to be very responsive to their customer base. Uncommonly so, in my experience -

;)

Mr Bob

Well did the decoder last night specifically for 1080 and re did contrast and brightness. Blue looks really good, just a tad off, Red is more or less the same almost right on, but green is some what off, I would say close but not spot on. Contrast had to reduce it to 34 while brightness went to 58. Tint and Color are at mid point since decoder was done through SM.

Tried Michaels best new test, 2001 Space Odyssey... looking good.

Well did the decoder last night specifically for 1080 and re did contrast and brightness. Blue looks really good, just a tad off, Red is more or less the same almost right on, but green is some what off, I would say close but not spot on. Contrast had to reduce it to 34 while brightness went to 58. Tint and Color are at mid point since decoder was done through SM.

Tried Michaels best new test, 2001 Space Odyssey... looking good.

Grayscale can change depending on where the User Brightness is set. I would redo the Br setting in sm to allow for complete midpointing of the User Br for most video material, esp. grayscale test patterns, then recheck everything.

Color and tint can change in sm depending on where it is set in user. I would make sure user is midpointed on both color and tint BEFORE I go into sm to change anything there, and after you have left sm, double check everything you can in user with user settings at midpoint everywhere. Filters will not be as good as sm color iso, of course, so if you have to use filters to check anything in user, allow for some error, which won't be there in sm with actual color isolation.


Mr Bob

Call them. They seem to be very responsive to their customer base. Uncommonly so, in my experience -

;)

Mr Bob

True.

I mean, consider the effort they have put into the F59 HDMI issues. Long time coming, but still impressive. Still plugging away @ this 2yrs after they abandoned this model & CRT RPTV as a whole.

BTW...so far the new service menu alterations (same type/same SM area as the old "freakout" fix) that Hit Engineering sent me to apply post-signal block swap seem to have finally corrected ALL HDMI issues....so far.;) Watched 3 episodes of X FILES on DVD last night. Flawless performance start to finish, and no image freakouts on any other input yet either.

From what they have told me, if we "beta testers" for this final fix end up w/ 100% fixed results, Hitachi will end up authorizing the job for any F59 user that contacts them.

See the F59 HDMI shift issue thread for more....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842581

With such dedication to an issue that they could have easily dismissed....let's just say that when the day comes that I finally have to join the flat panel HDTV ranks (hopefully a long time coming), Hitachi will be the 1st manufacturer I consider.

Brightness can change grayscale if it's too far off from center. I would redo the Br setting in sm to allow for complete midpointing of the user Br, then recheck everything.


Mr Bob

Will do, thanks.

On the decoder issues...I have everything right on except green. Its very close but a tad off..always has been. I'm not worried since its so close and that its. I've checked my grayscale with true B/W picture up and it looks right on (happily from phone consults with Mr. Bob). It may be I'm alittle off and I guess an electronic gizmo grayscale check would tell me but I'm not sweating it.

On the decoder issues...I have everything right on except green. Its very close but a tad off..always has been. I'm not worried since its so close and that its. I've checked my grayscale with true B/W picture up and it looks right on (happily from phone consults with Mr. Bob). It may be I'm alittle off and I guess an electronic gizmo grayscale check would tell me but I'm not sweating it.

Yup, the electronic gizmo would tell you you're a little off. Big deal.
Definitely don't sweat it. Enjoy.

On the decoder issues...I have everything right on except green. Its very close but a tad off..always has been. I'm not worried since its so close and that its. I've checked my grayscale with true B/W picture up and it looks right on (happily from phone consults with Mr. Bob). It may be I'm alittle off and I guess an electronic gizmo grayscale check would tell me but I'm not sweating it.


Green is the least of your worries. Having red push is definitely a lot worse! A bit of green push is hardly noticeable -

As Michael says, put down the remote and enjoy the movie!


Mr Bob

What are most of you running on sub-brt? Also on Statg1? I love the set with the deep dark look but raised my sub brt to 7B from 79. I was finding I was losing to much shadow detail, especially on dark shows like L&O. I am still running STATG1 at 06. Just curious how many are doing 07 or different.

Here are my settings:

SUB-BRT 72
BRT-SET 3F
SUBCNT 14
DGGAIN 01
STATG1 00
STATG2 01
YDTL 0A

Menu:
Contrast 35
Brightness 55
Color 50
Tint Mid
Sharpness 38
Everything OFF

Any idea what happened to the 6 pages of posts from August?
I don't know who needs to be made aware of this, so, whoever sees this (unless it, too, disappears :)), please pass it on.
Thanks.

Any idea what happened to the 6 pages of posts from August?
I don't know who needs to be made aware of this, so, whoever sees this (unless it, too, disappears :)), please pass it on.
Thanks.

They had a catastrophic event happen, and said they would have to recover back to August 2. Guess it had to go back just a little farther on this thread, to the end of last month, but on other threads it still goes out to the 2nd. They are heartsick about it just like we are, no question about it.

At least they are up again already. When I logged on earlier this morning, there was nothing up but the notice, couldn't go anywhere on the site at all.


Mr Bob

Any idea what happened to the 6 pages of posts from August?
I don't know who needs to be made aware of this, so, whoever sees this (unless it, too, disappears :)), please pass it on.
Thanks.

Forum rollback, seems they had a crash.:confused:

AVS had a bulletin earlier that explained that they had a major crash and all they could recover back to was August 1st or something like that. Said they were taking steps to keep it from ever happening again. Sounds like the back up system the server uses was not up to date. Usually the back up service covers daily activity. Depends on what you pay for or if you are running it yourself off another hard drive.

A lesson to be learned by all of us, yes?
Oh, well. Tweaks, anyone?
:)

And don't forget, screenshots go here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010146&page=15

Now what were we talking about?

Now what were we talking about?

Something about a 15 year old who wanted Mr. Bob to fix his tv for free so he can play games better.
:)

Something about a 15 year old who wanted Mr. Bob to fix his tv for free so he can play games better.
:)

OK what have you done that I haven't. That shot you posted the other day was great.

I have blacked out the inside of the TV.

I have done a lens hood.

Cleaned the top and bottom of the lenses and coolant cups ( didn't open up the assembly because I saw no dust inside)

made most of the usual service menu tweaks (to include SRTGA 06, YTDL 08, YoutG 00, colorg 00, DGGAIN 01, ect....

My geometry looks good (perfect circle) 5% all the way around

convergence is good by using 117 point (with the grid turned down so I can see the lines)

Colors Decoded to near perfection


COME ON:eek: I know theres more:mad:

OK what have you done that I haven't. That shot you posted the other day was great.

I have blacked out the inside of the TV.

I have done a lens hood.

Cleaned the top and bottom of the lenses and coolant cups ( didn't open up the assembly because I saw no dust inside)

made most of the usual service menu tweaks (to include SRTGA 06, YTDL 08, YoutG 00, colorg 00, DGGAIN 01, ect....

My geometry looks good (perfect circle) 5% all the way around

convergence is good by using 117 point (with the grid turned down so I can see the lines)

Colors Decoded to near perfection


COME ON:eek: I know theres more:mad:


So show us whatcha got. I showed you mine...

If you don't have a great camera, Kodak disco'd the Z712 IS, which is what I use, and it's fantastic. Can be had for less than 2 bills because of being closed out, has a huge German 12x Schneider zoom lens for among other things excellent light gathering capacity for low light level shots, Kodak's proprietary Color Science Chip for great fleshtones and true colors on nature shots, and all sorts of doodads, including but not limited to fully manual operation, for screenshots.

Go first to www.pricegrabber.com, and go from there -


Mr Bob

OK what have you done that I haven't. That shot you posted the other day was great.

COME ON:eek: I know theres more:mad:

Thank you.
The answer is....
GRAYSCALE.
I really think the time and effort I spent with the Eye One was not only a bunch of fun (hey, I know who I'm talking to, here), but made a world of difference. When you have a graph of gamma from 10 IRE to 100 IRE and you can see what your R, B, and G channels are doing, you can really drive yourself crazy - I mean you can really get your set more accurately aligned. The camera's white balance setting is trying to compensate for an uneven grayscale; once the grays are right, the shots became MUCH easier.
Some of us can envision "a cloudy day" and eyeball it. Not me.

Thank you.
The answer is....
GRAYSCALE.
I really think the time and effort I spent with the Eye One was not only a bunch of fun (hey, I know who I'm talking to, here), but made a world of difference. When you have a graph of gamma from 10 IRE to 100 IRE and you can see what your R, B, and G channels are doing, you can really drive yourself crazy - I mean you can really get your set more accurately aligned. The camera's white balance setting is trying to compensate for an uneven grayscale; once the grays are right, the shots became MUCH easier.
Some of us can envision "a cloudy day" and eyeball it. Not me.

I'm "Itching" at doing it right, and like you, I know I'll enjoy messing with the graphs and software. My problem Is set down time. As you would imagine that is the main tv and the center point of the house, so getting the tv for a couple of hours in a row with no-one around has to be done after hours during the week end, and that is usually the movie time viewing, unless is done really late, or staying home when they are gone somewhere else, that very seldom happens.

I almost bought a Spyder2, and thanks to you I didn't. I'm waiting for the right time ;) to get an eye-1, in the mean time "a cloudy day" will have to do, right Bob?

in the mean time "a cloudy day" will have to do, right Bob?

Thank you.
The answer is....
GRAYSCALE.
I really think the time and effort I spent with the Eye One was not only a bunch of fun (hey, I know who I'm talking to, here), but made a world of difference. When you have a graph of gamma from 10 IRE to 100 IRE and you can see what your R, B, and G channels are doing, you can really drive yourself crazy - I mean you can really get your set more accurately aligned. The camera's white balance setting is trying to compensate for an uneven grayscale; once the grays are right, the shots became MUCH easier.
Some of us can envision "a cloudy day" and eyeball it. Not me.



So true. I use a reference in my grayscales, and believe me, going into it each time I am still amused by how all over the map the grays I find are at the displays I calibrate, out of the starting gate, even tho lots of them LOOK pretty good already at first glance, when I walk into the room.

Our eyes are affected by lots of things, including sunlight, neon light, flourescent light, low room lighting, high room lighting... Joe Kane, way back in his original A Video Standard laserdisc, said all this a long time ago, for us then-newbies at the trade. That you gotta have a reference, because the eyes just can't do empirical, they can only do relative. They can do comparisons with great excellence, but can't just look at a color of gray WITHOUT a reference and be able to nail it. I am fine on relative pitch when I tune my guitar, but don't have perfect pitch, like lots of blind musicians do. When I was in a band with blind musicians in Portland once called the Twilighters, I would tune my guitar to his humming the correct pitched note, on one string. I could do the rest of the strings, relative to each other, after getting that note right. But that one initial note? Couldn't do that on my own, to save my soul. Being blind, he was on it instinctively.

And a valid grayscale reference for D6500K is the only way to nail it by eye. A cloudy day gets you close, but only an ISF Optical Comparator or a TVS Pro - or a homemade device Craig Rounds came up with utilizing #18 neutral gray paper, a video cassette with a cutout, and a lamp, that you can find plans for on the SPot - will get you an accurate enough reference for pro level consumer work.

Joel Silver tells a tale in the ISF training about a guy way back in the 50s who used to be prized among TV station owners and video professionals because he made his living carrying around a light box to set the grayscale with at TV stations all over the country. He was so dead accurate with it, EVERY TIME, that his reputation preceded him, far and wide. He never had to look for work, it was always clamoring for him. He was always booked WAY in advance.

On his deathbed he was told about this new thing that had come about called a "Color Analyzer", that could do what he did, with sensors and without a light box. He said, "But anybody can do that - "


Mr Bob

homemade device Craig Rounds came up with utilizing #18 neutral gray paper, a video cassette with a cutout, and a lamp, that you can find plans for on the SPot - will get you an accurate enough reference for pro level consumer work.

Mr Bob

Wow, this sounds extremely interesting.. I tried looking for info on this and can't get any hits.

Is the SPot a web site? the SPot that I find is a satellite information type of web site. Any additional info.

Is the SPot a web site? the SPot that I find is a satellite information type of web site. Any additional info.

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/index.php?

Thank you both.

Thank you both.


The SPot is a treasure trove of information, once you become a member. The yearly fee is peanuts compared to the knowledge base that's there, including a LOT of my stuff.


Mr Bob

I love this thread!!!!

I love this thread!!!!

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg (http://www.roflcat.com)

made most of the usual service menu tweaks (to include SRTGA 06, YTDL 08, YoutG 00, colorg 00, DGGAIN 01, ect....



Is there a "full list" of the recommended service menu tweaks?

Could someone post it?

I have had the Hitachi 57F59A for close to 2 years now and lately I've begun experiencing a display problem with it. Every 30 seconds or every few minutes ( it seems random how often it happens ) I will see what looks like a clear horizontal line quickly rolling down from the top of the screen towards the middle. I've also seen it at the bottom half of the screen so it can be anywhere. At this time the picture appears somewhat fuzzy, but it lasts for less than a second and then the picture returns to normal. It will then happen again and again randomly as I continue watching for it. I have noticed it on two different game consoles both plugged in to two separate component inputs with separate component cables. What could this be and how could I get it fixed?

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg (http://www.roflcat.com)

Ha Ha.....still loving the thread though:)

Is there a "full list" of the recommended service menu tweaks?

Could someone post it?

Back by popular demand. Here you go.

You will still want to peruse the thread, since some of the info in the guide has changed slightly (but not enough to lose sleep over).

Enjoy.

I have had the Hitachi 57F59A for close to 2 years now and lately I've begun experiencing a display problem with it. Every 30 seconds or every few minutes ( it seems random how often it happens ) I will see what looks like a clear horizontal line quickly rolling down from the top of the screen towards the middle. I've also seen it at the bottom half of the screen so it can be anywhere. At this time the picture appears somewhat fuzzy, but it lasts for less than a second and then the picture returns to normal. It will then happen again and again randomly as I continue watching for it. I have noticed it on two different game consoles both plugged in to two separate component inputs with separate component cables. What could this be and how could I get it fixed?

I have seen this (I think) when running a p scan signal into the set, be it from DVD, D* DVR or Wii.

In my case, the problem--if the same as yours--cleared up by NOT running any 480p to the TV. In the case of DVD & D* box, both send 1080i at all times whether SD or HD is present) and for Wii, it runs @ 480i via component. 480i Wii then gets hit with Virtual HD (set to 540p) and looks great - no weird interlace artifacts at all.

Can't say w/ any certainty, but it may have to do with the TV--which converts EVERYTHING SD to either 540p or 1080i--and it's resolution conversion when a p scan signal is present.

If running SD DVD--not upconverted--over component, you will likely get better overall results running it @ 480i, letting the TV's VHD upscale it. Same true w/ SD cable/sat.

Finally got around to covering the inside of my set with Duvetyne. Took advantage of everyone being out of the house for the weekend at the first of the month. I used the Scotch spray on adhesive I received when I replaced my headliner material in my truck. I ran duvetyne strips over the screen's MF sensor wires and colored those white wire clips.

Here's the before and after shots. I used a flash on both.

Before:Before Treatment (http://www.lbaileyht.com/duvetyne_b4.jpg)

As you can see, there was a LOT of reflective areas.

After: After Treatment (http://www.lbaileyht.com/duvetyne_after.jpg)

Those shiny areas above and below the mirror I have since covered with Duvetyne as well. I also put sides on the lens hood. Just was too lazy to take another picture. Nice improvement for any stray reflections. I can still see what I would call lens flare. Maybe some day I will take on that task as well,a nd open up a lens and coat the inside with flat black paint.

I did clean the mirror while I was at it, it did have a light coating of dust and particles on it.

I have seen this (I think) when running a p scan signal into the set, be it from DVD, D* DVR or Wii.

In my case, the problem--if the same as yours--cleared up by NOT running any 480p to the TV. In the case of DVD & D* box, both send 1080i at all times whether SD or HD is present) and for Wii, it runs @ 480i via component. 480i Wii then gets hit with Virtual HD (set to 540p) and looks great - no weird interlace artifacts at all.

Can't say w/ any certainty, but it may have to do with the TV--which converts EVERYTHING SD to either 540p or 1080i--and it's resolution conversion when a p scan signal is present.

If running SD DVD--not upconverted--over component, you will likely get better overall results running it @ 480i, letting the TV's VHD upscale it. Same true w/ SD cable/sat.

Thanks, I think that was the problem. The consoles I had this problem with were GameCube and Wii which were both set to 480p. I tried playing a GameCube game without enabling progressive scan on it so it would be 480i and I haven't noticed it happening yet. But is the picture really just as good or better when the Wii or GameCube are set to 480i instead of 480p and the TV does the rest? And I don't understand why I only noticed this happening a month or so ago when I've been playing games with 480p enabled on the GameCube and Wii ever since I got the TV almost 2 years ago. It seems like I would have noticed it much sooner if this is supposed to happen when you have them set to 480p. Is there not something wrong with my TV that only caused me to see this recently?

Finally got around to covering the inside of my set with Duvetyne. Took advantage of everyone being out of the house for the weekend at the first of the month. I used the Scotch spray on adhesive I received when I replaced my headliner material in my truck. I ran duvetyne strips over the screen's MF sensor wires and colored those white wire clips.

Here's the before and after shots. I used a flash on both.

Before:Before Treatment (http://www.lbaileyht.com/duvetyne_b4.jpg)

As you can see, there was a LOT of reflective areas.

After: After Treatment (http://www.lbaileyht.com/duvetyne_after.jpg)

Those shiny areas above and below the mirror I have since covered with Duvetyne as well. I also put sides on the lens hood. Just was too lazy to take another picture. Nice improvement for any stray reflections. I can still see what I would call lens flare. Maybe some day I will take on that task as well,a nd open up a lens and coat the inside with flat black paint.

I did clean the mirror while I was at it, it did have a light coating of dust and particles on it.



<<< :D but did you notice any diference in the pic q. after all that time and money / is it worth it ? :eek: .do you have pics of the change in pic. if any........:cool:

Thanks, I think that was the problem. The consoles I had this problem with were GameCube and Wii which were both set to 480p. I tried playing a GameCube game without enabling progressive scan on it so it would be 480i and I haven't noticed it happening yet. But is the picture really just as good or better when the Wii or GameCube are set to 480i instead of 480p and the TV does the rest? And I don't understand why I only noticed this happening a month or so ago when I've been playing games with 480p enabled on the GameCube and Wii ever since I got the TV almost 2 years ago. It seems like I would have noticed it much sooner if this is supposed to happen when you have them set to 480p. Is there not something wrong with my TV that only caused me to see this recently?

As to the GC @ 480i...what do your eyes tell you?

Personally see no degradation of PQ @ 480i when it's a good to excellent video quality (ie - SD DVD/Video or game console) component-fed signal going into the F59. Only diff I see in the Wii @ 480p is your "invisible" line rolling down the screen from time to time - and not all the time, either. Not sure why, but it might have to do w/ some sort of video frame/field rate issue when 480p hits an input that automatically converts it to 540p/1080i (I've seen it when VirtualHD is set to either). My best pseudo-informed guess.

I fed my F59 480p for some time actually & did not notice it right away. I also recall being told by a Customer Support rep @ Hitachi that you'd actually get beter results running a DVD player @ 480i over component, letting VHD upconvert it internally to 1080i (which it had an easier time dealing with VS a p scan version).

As mentioned, I now run Wii 480i w/ component, DVDs get sent 1080i via HDMI from an HDA2 (nice to finally have that input "shift-free") & my D* DVR sends all SD signals converted to @ 1080i via component as well. Since then, no such issues with ANY SD material. Rxt. upscaling from DVD/DVR have never exhibited the aforementioned problem.

I have had the Hitachi 57F59A for close to 2 years now and lately I've begun experiencing a display problem with it. Every 30 seconds or every few minutes ( it seems random how often it happens ) I will see what looks like a clear horizontal line quickly rolling down from the top of the screen towards the middle. I've also seen it at the bottom half of the screen so it can be anywhere. At this time the picture appears somewhat fuzzy, but it lasts for less than a second and then the picture returns to normal. It will then happen again and again randomly as I continue watching for it. I have noticed it on two different game consoles both plugged in to two separate component inputs with separate component cables. What could this be and how could I get it fixed?

Intermittents are usually caused by cold solder joints in there. Possibly in your vertical circuit.

A tech would test for cold solder joints, and resolder when he found one.


Mr Bob

As to the GC @ 480i...what do your eyes tell you?

Personally see no degradation of PQ @ 480i when it's a good to excellent video quality (ie - SD DVD/Video or game console) component-fed signal going into the F59. Only diff I see in the Wii @ 480p is your "invisible" line rolling down the screen from time to time - and not all the time, either. Not sure why, but it might have to do w/ some sort of video frame/field rate issue when 480p hits an input that automatically converts it to 540p/1080i (I've seen it when VirtualHD is set to either). My best pseudo-informed guess.

I fed my F59 480p for some time actually & did not notice it right away. I also recall being told by a Customer Support rep @ Hitachi that you'd actually get beter results running a DVD player @ 480i over component, letting VHD upconvert it internally to 1080i (which it had an easier time dealing with VS a p scan version).

As mentioned, I now run Wii 480i w/ component, DVDs get sent 1080i via HDMI from an HDA2 (nice to finally have that input "shift-free") & my D* DVR sends all SD signals converted to @ 1080i via component as well. Since then, no such issues with ANY SD material. Rxt. upscaling from DVD/DVR have never exhibited the aforementioned problem.

I also can't tell the difference in PQ between having the GameCube set at 480i or 480p with the TV at 540p, other than the line that appears on 480p. But I still wonder if this is a problem with the TV that needs fixing or if this occurs with everyone that sends 480p to the TV.

Back by popular demand. Here you go.

You will still want to peruse the thread, since some of the info in the guide has changed slightly (but not enough to lose sleep over).

Enjoy.

I already have that...thanks for the link anyway. I've seen other things mentioned that aren't listed in the guide and I was wondering if anyone had a more comprehensive list of "tweaks".

Intermittents are usually caused by cold solder joints in there. Possibly in your vertical circuit.

A tech would test for cold solder joints, and resolder when he found one.


Mr Bob


Bob,

As to the issue you replied to....I have seen (I believe) the exact same phenomenon on my F59. And ONLY when it's fed 480p video. Never happens w/ "real" HD signals or 480i.

I believe a past poster or 2 here have also witnessed the "invisible" scrolling line.

Take the same signal you see this issue pop up on @ send it out either 480i (in my case, the Wii & my last non-upscaling DVD player) or ext. upconverted to 1080i (DVDs via HDA2 [HDMI], D* SD signals sent 1080i from DVR[component]) - the issue goes away.

Just think it is something to do with 480p and it's possible "reconciliation" (best word I can come up with) with a display locked @ either 540p/1080i. That it clears up when dumping a p scan signal is what led me to this belief. But I fully acknowledge that I might be wrong!

As mentioned earlier, Hitachi did tell me in the past that DVD over component was best sent @ 480i, as "Virtual HD" has an easier time dealing with it/converting it to 540p/1080i.

This might be the issue. If so, not sure it's "fixable" - or really needs to be fixed. Besides, these TVs do a really nice job making 480i look good (as long as the source material is of good quality). Wii, for example, does not lose any visible PQ @ 480i (unless you go w/ the in box Wii composite cable - then things kinda go south a little).

Bob,

As to the issue you replied to....I have seen (I believe) the exact same phenomenon on my F59. And ONLY when it's fed 480p video. Never happens w/ "real" HD signals or 480i.

I believe a past poster or 2 here have also witnessed the "invisible" scrolling line.

Take the same signal you see this issue pop up on @ send it out either 480i (in my case, the Wii & my last non-upscaling DVD player) or ext. upconverted to 1080i (DVDs via HDA2 [HDMI], D* SD signals sent 1080i from DVR[component]) - the issue goes away.

Just think it is something to do with 480p and it's possible "reconciliation" (best word I can come up with) with a display locked @ either 540p/1080i. That it clears up when dumping a p scan signal is what led me to this belief. But I fully acknowledge that I might be wrong!

As mentioned earlier, Hitachi did tell me in the past that DVD over component was best sent @ 480i, as "Virtual HD" has an easier time dealing with it/converting it to 540p/1080i.

This might be the issue. If so, not sure it's "fixable" - or really needs to be fixed. Besides, these TVs do a really nice job making 480i look good (as long as the source material is of good quality). Wii, for example, does not lose any visible PQ @ 480i (unless you go w/ the in box Wii composite cable - then things kinda go south a little).


I agree. Doing it my way would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, for virtually no gain over your workaround, even if successful. I'd go with your workaround!

;)


Mr Bob

If one could somehow "switch off" VHD, I imagine the situation could be tested. Alas, VHD is always "ON" when 480i/p video is present.

Does anyone remember that Hitachi guys name that called about the HDMI fix. It was always the same guy. He called but my wife didnt get the info for me. I'm thinking I want the fix too. Its nice to have the right contact name.

Finally got around to covering the inside of my set with Duvetyne. Took advantage of everyone being out of the house for the weekend at the first of the month. I used the Scotch spray on adhesive I received when I replaced my headliner material in my truck. I ran duvetyne strips over the screen's MF sensor wires and colored those white wire clips.

Here's the before and after shots. I used a flash on both.

Before:Before Treatment (http://www.lbaileyht.com/duvetyne_b4.jpg)

As you can see, there was a LOT of reflective areas.

After: After Treatment (http://www.lbaileyht.com/duvetyne_after.jpg)

Those shiny areas above and below the mirror I have since covered with Duvetyne as well. I also put sides on the lens hood. Just was too lazy to take another picture. Nice improvement for any stray reflections. I can still see what I would call lens flare. Maybe some day I will take on that task as well,a nd open up a lens and coat the inside with flat black paint.

I did clean the mirror while I was at it, it did have a light coating of dust and particles on it.

I guess you had already sharpied most of it before this. If not mine sure had a lot more metal showing.

Does anyone remember that Hitachi guys name that called about the HDMI fix. It was always the same guy. He called but my wife didnt get the info for me. I'm thinking I want the fix too. Its nice to have the right contact name.

I was contacted most times by a Customer Support rep named Josh (don't know last name), but was told by him that any CS rep could help you, as long as they have your contact info in their system.

If you haven't contacted them yet, any rep @ Customer Support can help you. But make sure it's Support you contact (800-654-7013).

Don't call the Hitachi # in the owners manual (1-800-Hitachi), as those CSRs likely will not know what you are talking about. Customer SUPPORT, OTOH, will know & has been the facilitator of this fix.

Bob,

As to the issue you replied to....I have seen (I believe) the exact same phenomenon on my F59. And ONLY when it's fed 480p video. Never happens w/ "real" HD signals or 480i.

I believe a past poster or 2 here have also witnessed the "invisible" scrolling line.

Take the same signal you see this issue pop up on @ send it out either 480i (in my case, the Wii & my last non-upscaling DVD player) or ext. upconverted to 1080i (DVDs via HDA2 [HDMI], D* SD signals sent 1080i from DVR[component]) - the issue goes away.

Just think it is something to do with 480p and it's possible "reconciliation" (best word I can come up with) with a display locked @ either 540p/1080i. That it clears up when dumping a p scan signal is what led me to this belief. But I fully acknowledge that I might be wrong!

As mentioned earlier, Hitachi did tell me in the past that DVD over component was best sent @ 480i, as "Virtual HD" has an easier time dealing with it/converting it to 540p/1080i.

This might be the issue. If so, not sure it's "fixable" - or really needs to be fixed. Besides, these TVs do a really nice job making 480i look good (as long as the source material is of good quality). Wii, for example, does not lose any visible PQ @ 480i (unless you go w/ the in box Wii composite cable - then things kinda go south a little).

I was just looking around in the menu and noticed that I had the Virtual HD set to 1080i. Normally I always have this set to 540p. So I switched it back to 540p and enabled 480p on my GameCube and there was no scrolling line to be seen. I then set the Virtual HD back to 1080i, and within 5 minutes I had noticed the scrolling line several times. I set it back to 540 and have yet to see it again. So it seems that the problem occurs when sending 480p to the TV and having the Virtual HD set at 1080i instead of 540p. I must have switched it to 1080i a month or two ago for some reason and that's when I started noticing this. I knew I couldn't have gone nearly 2 years without seeing it.

I guess you had already sharpied most of it before this. If not mine sure had a lot more metal showing.


Actually, this is the first time I've removed the screen. I didn't use a sharpie earlier, just cut out a retangular piece of duvetyne for the bottom of the insides, with my lens hood up front made from black foam board, covered with duvetyne. Also just made up three rings of duvetyne that fit over the lens barrels, to cover up the shiny screws and wing nuts.

<<< :D but did you notice any diference in the pic q. after all that time and money / is it worth it ? :eek: .do you have pics of the change in pic. if any........:cool:


Picture quality wise, just a little deeper black levels. The screen of course looks darker when the set is not on. The time and money were worth it just for the experience, which is priceless. It is a bit nerve racking the first time you pull the screen off, worrying you'll drop it or something!

Actually, this is the first time I've removed the screen. I didn't use a sharpie earlier, just cut out a retangular piece of duvetyne for the bottom of the insides, with my lens hood up front made from black foam board, covered with duvetyne. Also just made up three rings of duvetyne that fit over the lens barrels, to cover up the shiny screws and wing nuts.

Thats curious. Looking at your before pic, there isnt really any shiny metal showing. The only thing black mine had around the lenses was the lens assembly itself. Everything else was particle board or gray metal.


HMMMMMMMMMMMM I just looked at your pics again. I dont know if your Before pic is a completely before only pic. Isnt there a lens hood in it and some duventyne already in place?

Thats curious. Looking at your before pic, there isnt really any shiny metal showing. The only thing black mine had around the lenses was the lens assembly itself. Everything else was particle board or gray metal.


HMMMMMMMMMMMM I just looked at your pics again. I dont know if your Before pic is a completely before only pic. Isnt there a lens hood in it and some duventyne already in place?


Those were the mods I made just from entering through the rear panel. Lens hood, duvetyne on the bottom, duvetyne rings over the lens to cover the screws and such.

Those were the mods I made just from entering through the rear panel. Lens hood, duvetyne on the bottom, duvetyne rings over the lens to cover the screws and such.

OOOHHHH OK


I had forgotten that you had went in from the back panel before. Good work from what I could see.

I just got the go-ahead from the wife to order a refurbed 65F59, and it's on its way!

Obviously, this is going to take a while, as I'll have to wait for it to show up, and then wait to break it in, but I plan to tweak this thing bigtime. I also plan to share. I'll be posting pics and before & after screens as I go. I plan to black out the set's interior and do overscan redux using Owen's shim method. As for calibration itself, I'll probably get the basics as close as I can at first and then have it done professionally once the set is fully broken-in.

More to come!

I just got the go-ahead from the wife to order a refurbed 65F59, and it's on its way!

Obviously, this is going to take a while, as I'll have to wait for it to show up, and then wait to break it in, but I plan to tweak this thing bigtime. I also plan to share. I'll be posting pics and before & after screens as I go. I plan to black out the set's interior and do overscan redux using Owen's shim method. As for calibration itself, I'll probably get the basics as close as I can at first and then have it done professionally once the set is fully broken-in.

More to come!

If it's a refurb, it's probably already "broken in," no?

If it's a refurb, it's probably already "broken in," no?

Very funny...;)

Happy to report I haven't suffered any more input deaths in the last couple months, so it seems like Input 3 was just a rogue. Guess that means my TV will be a happy camper and I'll give it the scheimpfluge mod this month as a reward:)

As to the GC @ 480i...what do your eyes tell you?

Personally see no degradation of PQ @ 480i when it's a good to excellent video quality (ie - SD DVD/Video or game console) component-fed signal going into the F59. Only diff I see in the Wii @ 480p is your "invisible" line rolling down the screen from time to time - and not all the time, either. Not sure why, but it might have to do w/ some sort of video frame/field rate issue when 480p hits an input that automatically converts it to 540p/1080i (I've seen it when VirtualHD is set to either). My best pseudo-informed guess.

I fed my F59 480p for some time actually & did not notice it right away. I also recall being told by a Customer Support rep @ Hitachi that you'd actually get beter results running a DVD player @ 480i over component, letting VHD upconvert it internally to 1080i (which it had an easier time dealing with VS a p scan version).

As mentioned, I now run Wii 480i w/ component, DVDs get sent 1080i via HDMI from an HDA2 (nice to finally have that input "shift-free") & my D* DVR sends all SD signals converted to @ 1080i via component as well. Since then, no such issues with ANY SD material. Rxt. upscaling from DVD/DVR have never exhibited the aforementioned problem.

You know what my eyes told me: that 480i was actually sharper on my set. With the Wii set to 480P, it's most definitely softer on my set. Doesn't make much sense, but after I got the cable and switched back and forth 20 times, I set it to 480i cause it definitely was sharper.

Happy to report I haven't suffered any more input deaths in the last couple months, so it seems like Input 3 was just a rogue. Guess that means my TV will be a happy camper and I'll give it the scheimpfluge mod this month as a reward:)



You know what my eyes told me: that 480i was actually sharper on my set. With the Wii set to 480P, it's most definitely softer on my set. Doesn't make much sense, but after I got the cable and switched back and forth 20 times, I set it to 480i cause it definitely was sharper.

It's probably due to the way the Virtual HD has to re-interlace the progressive signal when it upscales to 1080i. Best to feed it only interlaced sources from what I've found.

Ok, here is a short update of what is happening with my set. I have performed many of the most common tweaks mentioned on this thread plus some other recommendations. I thought that I had a very good picture. Now, here comes a Spyder2 colorimetre and HCFR software, run some greyscale test, and Oh my Gosh!!! everythign is way off.

Well is time to bring it to where it should be right? to summarized so far:

- grayscale is much better but not there yet.
- luminance need to be even out but better.
- closer to D65 but needs tweaking.
- color saturation much closer on all colors, however now it looks greenish.
- gamma is more linear but still all over.

Glad there is an extra day this weekend. Playing some more tonight.

I have had my 57 two years and never cleaned it. I am embarrassed to ask what needs to be cleaned and what do you clean it with?

I appreciate it!

I have had my 57 two years and never cleaned it. I am embarrassed to ask what needs to be cleaned and what do you clean it with?

I appreciate it!

Here you go, these are just acouple of threads with this type of info, if you do a search you'll find tons and tons on this subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037039&highlight=rpcrt+cleaning

Well, today was my big day. My refurbed 65F95 showed up, and I went right to work on it. Picture OOB was poor, but not as poor as my 2003 model 57S500 was OOB. I was delighted to see that most of the common service menu tweaks had already been implemented.

I tested the HDMI input, and it's a no-go for me, which I was prepared for. Image shift happened twice in the first 30 minutes of use, and the geometry on the HDMI input was a little worse than that of the component input. Lines near the edges of the screen showed slight S-curve, whereas the same patterns sent over component showed very good geometry. So, bear in mind that I'm doing all of my business on this set via component, which is just fine by me, since the display is inherently analog to begin with.

I noticed a black spot near the upper left corner of the screen. It was maybe the size of a grain of rice. The offending artifact had fairly sharp edges, so I was pretty sure this wasn't debris on the surface of any of the lenses. I isolated the CRT's with the RGBOUT to be sure, and it was there regardless of which color I displayed, so I knew at that point that I would need to pull of the screen and check the lenticular. It turns out that there was a small piece of dried glue stuck to the lent, so I carefully pulled it off with tweezers, no harm done!

Then I wheeled around and looked at the optical cavity to check the condition of the lenses and mirror. All I can say is, Wow! Lenses- filthy. Mirror- filthy. Cobwebs- you bet. Unbelievable. So I spent the next hour making passes at the mirror and giving the lenses their first cleaning.

Now, let's get back to viewing. I had noticed earlier in the day that the component inputs were showing what looked like line noise to me. They were very, very faint 45-degree lines about a half inch thick moving across the surface of the screen. They'd be noticeable for about 10 seconds, and then go away for a bit, then come back. They were so faint, the wife couldn't see them, but they were bugging the hell out of me. I'm not sure what the cause is, because my setup includes a filtered, clean power strip, and this never occured on my other TV when it occupied the same space in my setup. Everything's the same now but the TV, so I'm pretty confident that's where the problem lies.

Then, tonight, I hit the menu button on the remote in order to fiddle with something, (can't even remember what anymore...) and instead of the OSD User Menu coming up, I hear a click, and this happens:

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/filmguy1974/?action=view&current=MVI_1859.flv

Now it won't stop, and I can't bring any OSD info up on screen. Unplugged the set- and no dice.

Anyone have any idea what the culprit is?

I think you need to call for warranty work...you only have 30 days right? At least get this documented in case it's part of something that's going to fail down the road.

Well, today was my big day. My refurbed 65F95 showed up, and I went right to work on it. Picture OOB was poor, but not as poor as my 2003 model 57S500 was OOB. I was delighted to see that most of the common service menu tweaks had already been implemented.

I tested the HDMI input, and it's a no-go for me, which I was prepared for. Image shift happened twice in the first 30 minutes of use, and the geometry on the HDMI input was a little worse than that of the component input. Lines near the edges of the screen showed slight S-curve, whereas the same patterns sent over component showed very good geometry. So, bear in mind that I'm doing all of my business on this set via component, which is just fine by me, since the display is inherently analog to begin with.

I noticed a black spot near the upper left corner of the screen. It was maybe the size of a grain of rice. The offending artifact had fairly sharp edges, so I was pretty sure this wasn't debris on the surface of any of the lenses. I isolated the CRT's with the RGBOUT to be sure, and it was there regardless of which color I displayed, so I knew at that point that I would need to pull of the screen and check the lenticular. It turns out that there was a small piece of dried glue stuck to the lent, so I carefully pulled it off with tweezers, no harm done!

Then I wheeled around and looked at the optical cavity to check the condition of the lenses and mirror. All I can say is, Wow! Lenses- filthy. Mirror- filthy. Cobwebs- you bet. Unbelievable. So I spent the next hour making passes at the mirror and giving the lenses their first cleaning.

Now, let's get back to viewing. I had noticed earlier in the day that the component inputs were showing what looked like line noise to me. They were very, very faint 45-degree lines about a half inch thick moving across the surface of the screen. They'd be noticeable for about 10 seconds, and then go away for a bit, then come back. They were so faint, the wife couldn't see them, but they were bugging the hell out of me. I'm not sure what the cause is, because my setup includes a filtered, clean power strip, and this never occured on my other TV when it occupied the same space in my setup. Everything's the same now but the TV, so I'm pretty confident that's where the problem lies.

Then, tonight, I hit the menu button on the remote in order to fiddle with something, (can't even remember what anymore...) and instead of the OSD User Menu coming up, I hear a click, and this happens:

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/filmguy1974/?action=view&current=MVI_1859.flv

Now it won't stop, and I can't bring any OSD info up on screen. Unplugged the set- and no dice.

Anyone have any idea what the culprit is?

I've had that strange loud click before but my screen only went dark and I had to to unplug at the wall. That cleared it. I know when it has happened it was loud enough to hear several feet away. I dont know what is going on with yours though.

This wasn't the loud click- I had that happen on my other Hit a time or two as well. This was a small click, but it was audible.

I was able to force the picture back to normal by hitting the input button on the front panel this morning. However, I'm definitely going to have the unit serviced, since I only get 30 days parts/labor. I'm just hoping that Mr. Bob or one of the other CRT-RP gurus might be able to give me their opinion on what's wrong so that I don't have to rely solely upon the experience of some local tech that I have no reason to trust.

Overall, I'm thrilled with the set. Even at factory overscan, with SRTGA at 0, edge enhancement off, and without performing any OOB focus tweaks, this unit throws a sharper picture than my old 57". Once broken in and calibrated, this thing is going to throw a ridiculously good image.

That is the truth. I just wish I had the time and expertise to do those last few super mods that I want too. Then mine would get that last bit of UUUmmph that you can see on Michaels set over at the screenshot war thread.

That is the truth. I just wish I had the time and expertise to do those last few super mods that I want too. Then mine would get that last bit of UUUmmph that you can see on Michaels set over at the screenshot war thread.

If you would stop wasting time watching MOVIES on the darn thing you'd be able to calibrate it. :D
Thanks for the compliment. THAT'S what makes the time and effort worthwhile.
Of course, I'm still tweaking!
Michael

Well, the issue illustrated in the link I provided yesterday popped up again last night. I was again able to get it to stop by hitting the input button on the front panel, but this is unnerving.

I've got the dreaded occasional image shift on the HDMI input, and slight noise over the component input even when what I show in the video isn't happening.

I called 1-800-Hitachi yesterday and they registered me and directed me to a local guy who can provide in-home service under warranty. I finally got ahold of him at the end of the day. Got the impression from him that he isn't going to be real comfortable servicing the set. He tried to tell me that these issues can be fixed via software update and/or service menu changes, and tried to direct me back to Hit.

I think what I'm going to do, (thanks to all of Jwebb's hard work and trailblazing on the HDMI issue) is call the customer relations hotline and try to get in line for the signal block assembly replacement. I figure that along with the HDMI issues, that might clear up the component issue I'm having as well.

The lengths we have to go to sometimes...

Well, the issue illustrated in the link I provided yesterday popped up again last night. I was again able to get it to stop by hitting the input button on the front panel, but this is unnerving.


Have you tried the I2C service menu changes jwebb originally posted 2/2/07?
Also, a better number for Hitachi service is 1-800-654-7013.
Good luck.

Have you tried the I2C service menu changes jwebb originally posted 2/2/07?
Also, a better number for Hitachi service is 1-800-654-7013.
Good luck.

Thanks for the info! Yeah, that was one of the first things I looked at after setting up the TV. The I2C sm changes were already implemented by Hit before shipping- but that only addresses the original "freakout" issues with HDMI, not the image shift, and not the issues I'm having over component.

Truth be told, I wouldn't care about the HDMI issue if my component connections were working the way they're supposed to. I'm going to give this service guy a chance to get back to me on Monday and see if he can come up with something that sounds like a reasonable solution and, failing that, I'll call customer relations and try to get in line to get my signal block assembly replaced down the road.

Well, today was my big day. My refurbed 65F95 showed up, and I went right to work on it. Picture OOB was poor, but not as poor as my 2003 model 57S500 was OOB. I was delighted to see that most of the common service menu tweaks had already been implemented.

I tested the HDMI input, and it's a no-go for me, which I was prepared for. Image shift happened twice in the first 30 minutes of use, and the geometry on the HDMI input was a little worse than that of the component input. Lines near the edges of the screen showed slight S-curve, whereas the same patterns sent over component showed very good geometry. So, bear in mind that I'm doing all of my business on this set via component, which is just fine by me, since the display is inherently analog to begin with.

I noticed a black spot near the upper left corner of the screen. It was maybe the size of a grain of rice. The offending artifact had fairly sharp edges, so I was pretty sure this wasn't debris on the surface of any of the lenses. I isolated the CRT's with the RGBOUT to be sure, and it was there regardless of which color I displayed, so I knew at that point that I would need to pull of the screen and check the lenticular. It turns out that there was a small piece of dried glue stuck to the lent, so I carefully pulled it off with tweezers, no harm done!

Then I wheeled around and looked at the optical cavity to check the condition of the lenses and mirror. All I can say is, Wow! Lenses- filthy. Mirror- filthy. Cobwebs- you bet. Unbelievable. So I spent the next hour making passes at the mirror and giving the lenses their first cleaning.

Now, let's get back to viewing. I had noticed earlier in the day that the component inputs were showing what looked like line noise to me. They were very, very faint 45-degree lines about a half inch thick moving across the surface of the screen. They'd be noticeable for about 10 seconds, and then go away for a bit, then come back. They were so faint, the wife couldn't see them, but they were bugging the hell out of me. I'm not sure what the cause is, because my setup includes a filtered, clean power strip, and this never occured on my other TV when it occupied the same space in my setup. Everything's the same now but the TV, so I'm pretty confident that's where the problem lies.

Then, tonight, I hit the menu button on the remote in order to fiddle with something, (can't even remember what anymore...) and instead of the OSD User Menu coming up, I hear a click, and this happens:

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/filmguy1974/?action=view&current=MVI_1859.flv

Now it won't stop, and I can't bring any OSD info up on screen. Unplugged the set- and no dice.

Anyone have any idea what the culprit is?

For what it's worth, when my component input 3 FOREVER reverted to 480i only, there was a loud click at around the exact time it happened.

Just like Michael said... I stopped watching movies and dedicated some more time for Spyder2. Now is looking much much better compared to my last attempt. Color is very close to target and fairly even amongst red, green and blue. However, I need help from Michael to TAME blue. Gamma is much better, the average is very good but blue has its own mine.

How does it look you ask? I watched like 5 minutes of the Ant Bully and it looked very good, the WOW factor is back!

I'll pst the graphs and some screen shoots later, the graphs are on the laptop and last night I had no energy left to take pictures. It was a long night but well worth it.

I am wanting to black out the inside of my Hit 51f59 and I am undecided as to whether I want to use a Sharpie permanent marker or duventyne cloth. Warranty isn't a factor as it ran out awhile ago. Using the sharpie seems the easiest and cheapest option but I am afraid that the fumes won't go away. For those of you that have used a sharpie, did the fumes go away?

Oh, yeah- the fumes will go away. But duventyne/commando cloth will do a better job of killing reflections.

Will using duventyne increase risk of fire? Also, how much duventyne would I need?

I have had my 57 two years and never cleaned it. I am embarrassed to ask what needs to be cleaned and what do you clean it with?

I appreciate it!

Contact me directly if you want to get my techniques from the horse's mouth -


Mr Bob

Will using duventyne increase risk of fire? Also, how much duventyne would I need?

No, it's almost always flame resistant material.

For a 51", you'd probably need 4 yards, give or take.

No, it's almost always flame resistant material.

For a 51", you'd probably need 4 yards, give or take.

Sharpie works fine if you want to go that way. I think the duvetyne cloth covers a little better. I sharpied mine and like it.

Sharpie works fine if you want to go that way. I think the duvetyne cloth covers a little better. I sharpied mine and like it.

I didn't have the patience for the Sharpie and couldn't find Duvetyne, so I used flat black paint.
Speak to Bob about the cleaning, though, since scratching your lenses or breaking your mirror will negate the benefits of blacking out the inside. :)

I didn't have the patience for the Sharpie and couldn't find Duvetyne, so I used flat black paint.
Speak to Bob about the cleaning, though, since scratching your lenses or breaking your mirror will negate the benefits of blacking out the inside. :)

I agree on being overly cautious on the lenses. I tell you though, for me cleaning the mirror was a pain. It had that fog like film over it and I had to go over it numerous times.

If your going into those deeper optics I would do a phone consult with Mr. Bob...the feeling of having someone with experience on the other end was well worth it to me. Plus it wasnt that much.

Oh BTW my geometry looks good. The test circle is a circle. I'm at 5% all the way around. So whats next. I'm thinking some focusing work. I have no idea what that would require though.

Oh BTW my geometry looks good. The test circle is a circle. I'm at 5% all the way around. So whats next. I'm thinking some focusing work. I have no idea what that would require though.

The focus block inside has two rows of three knobs. The top row is the screen vr pots. DON'T TOUCH THEM. Someone suggested taping over them so they don't get touched accidentally. That's a good idea.

The lower row is the electrostatic focus for red, green and blue (left to right). What I've done in the past is display a convergence test image (the one you use with the circle is fine), change RGBOUT to 01, and adjust red. Then change RGBOUT to 02, green, and so on. Blue will be slightly "defocused" relative to red and green. That's intentional and it's okay. Get it as sharp as you can.

The wingnuts on the lenses are for mechanical focusing. If you can get everything sharp electrostatically, I wouldn't bother fooling with the lenses. If you must, loosen the wingnut and rotate the lens slightly each way. Retighten the wingnut GENTLY at the point it's most sharp.

Purists (hi, Mr. Bob) will display a grid at 480i and look for scan lines. You can probably drive yourself crazy getting the last 2% to perfect. I think, if the focus is off at all, that the few minutes you spend getting it to 98% will be worthwhile.

The wingnuts on the lenses are for mechanical focusing. If you can get everything sharp electrostatically, I wouldn't bother fooling with the lenses. If you must, loosen the wingnut and rotate the lens slightly each way. Retighten the wingnut GENTLY at the point it's most sharp.

Purists (hi, Mr. Bob) will display a grid at 480i and look for scan lines. You can probably drive yourself crazy getting the last 2% to perfect. I think, if the focus is off at all, that the few minutes you spend getting it to 98% will be worthwhile.


That's why I came up with the Cantilever Technique, so you could doublecheck your optical focusing WITHOUT CHANGING IT. What if it is already perfect??? If you loosen the lens and rotate it slightly each way, you may never get it back as good as it was when you started.

With the Cantilever Technique, you don't have to do any of that experimentation, because you are not using loosening the wingnuts at the lenses to doublecheck the focus. If it passes the CT test on each color, you have left the wingnut alone and are none the worse, on each color.

I NEVER drive myself crazy getting that last 2%. I never even break a sweat. When the forward and backward out-of-focusing on the CT are equivalent, leaving the centerpoint totally exposed, it's there. Stop. Done. 100%. Every time. That crisp. From then on I am free to study the grain of the film they used to shoot that movie.


Mr Bob

I think I am going to attempt a cleaning of the lenses and mirror. I have read through most of the pages in this thread and I have a good idea what to do. However, I can't seem to find a picture of the mirror. Is there one floating around here?

I think I am going to attempt a cleaning of the lenses and mirror. I have read through most of the pages in this thread and I have a good idea what to do. However, I can't seem to find a picture of the mirror. Is there one floating around here?

Sort of like taking a picture of a window. :)
The back of your set, the part that slopes, is where the mirror is mounted. It's big, and the silver coating is on the FRONT (a regular mirror has glass covering the silver), so you have to be very careful when you clean it. NO AMMONIA.
Good luck.

That's why I came up with the Cantilever Technique, so you could doublecheck your optical focusing WITHOUT CHANGING IT.

I can't get the keohi website. Do you know if there's a problem?
For those who haven't seen it, you may want to link to your Cantilever article.

Later: seems okay now. Here's the link:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/cantilever.html

That's why I came up with the Cantilever Technique, so you could doublecheck your optical focusing WITHOUT CHANGING IT. What if it is already perfect??? If you loosen the lens and rotate it slightly each way, you may never get it back as good as it was when you started.

With the Cantilever Technique, you don't have to do any of that experimentation, because you are not using loosening the wingnuts at the lenses to doublecheck the focus. If it passes the CT test on each color, you have left the wingnut alone and are none the worse, on each color.

I NEVER drive myself crazy getting that last 2%. I never even break a sweat. When the forward and backward out-of-focusing on the CT are equivalent, leaving the centerpoint totally exposed, it's there. Stop. Done. 100%. Every time. That crisp. From then on I am free to study the grain of the film they used to shoot that movie.


Mr Bob

I started doing you technique this weekend and scrapped it. Was just creating a ton of work and IMO not giving any benefit over the great focus I had. My 98 percent is good enough:) It's dialed in tight enough that I can see scan lines and that's enough.

Now, I make that statement comparing it to a perfectly dialed electronic AND mechanical focus. How can I be sure the mechanical is perfect? You don't have to have the screen off to do these Hitachi's. You take the front panel off and then remove the 2 screws on the button input panel (Somebody else gave this tip a long time ago). This way you can keep the screen on, and putting your hand through the small opening, can see in real-time every slight change you're making with mechanical focus. I would not wanna TOUCH mechanical focus if you couldn't do it that way, but thankfully you can on these sets.

Well I dont know if my set is 98% -100% in focus. I would think its not. Based on the screen shots I've seen from Michael. Mr. Bob and a few others I would say not. I dont know if I can see the scan lines but I do seem to see the grain on some video. I will check. I have been bothered by that awesome screenshot Michael put up a month or more ago. I really thought my set was as close to as good as it could get until I saw that shot. I have to look back to see what the shot was of but I remember it beingawesome.

I started doing you technique this weekend and scrapped it. Was just creating a ton of work and IMO not giving any benefit over the great focus I had. My 98 percent is good enough:) It's dialed in tight enough that I can see scan lines and that's enough.

Now, I make that statement comparing it to a perfectly dialed electronic AND mechanical focus. How can I be sure the mechanical is perfect?


That's what the CT is for. It's not for focusing. It's for doublechecking. Or even singlechecking. For checking the focus WITHOUT changing it.

Practicing it you can see where the out of focusing points are vs. the at-rest center'd position of the screen, by moving the SCREEN in and out, rather than disturbing the possibly already perfect wingnut settings of your lens barrels. If your set was in perfect optical/mechanical focus already, you'd see that as the point where the screen is just sitting there, at rest, because you've compared it to the OUT of focus points of your screen's postitioning. And KNOW it's perfect already, as it sits, without changing anything involving the focus settings. 100% in. Done. Without "breaking any seals" on the factory's mechanical focusing job.

You don't have to have the screen off to do these Hitachi's. You take the front panel off and then remove the 2 screws on the button input panel (Somebody else gave this tip a long time ago). This way you can keep the screen on, and putting your hand through the small opening, can see in real-time every slight change you're making with mechanical focus. I would not wanna TOUCH mechanical focus if you couldn't do it that way, but thankfully you can on these sets.

Yes, and that is very valuable IF your set needs any focusing at all. If it does not, which you can verify via the CT, you don't even need to go there. You see what 100% focusing looks like, vs. 98% in/forward towards you and 98% in/away from you of the screen's position, without ever disturbing the lens focusing while the screen is in its at-rest position.

Or the position of the wingnut settings when the screen is centered/at-rest.

Sony's CRT lens positions are usually 100% IN, OOB, every time, and the same goes for their Screen trimpot settings, all 6 settings of which they immobilize on their focus blocks with white glue. I usually don't need to change ANYTHING about the Sony settings, on ANY of their focusings. The CT is INVALUABLE for discovering this, and leaving ALL their settings ALONE.

The simple, quick CT doublecheck procedure usually allows me to completely skip the ENTIRE focusing procedure on Sonys. May have allowed you to entirely skip yours as well, if you can see 480p scanlines clearly, OOB, and 1080i scanlines during certain types of scenes, at 8-10' - and the grain of the film they use to shoot movies - with no sweat. This is my criteria.

They are the ONLY brand I will say that about. Usually I find at least 2 of the lenses out of focus OOB, if not all 3, via the CT.


This also, if you're an amateur at calibrations, assures that don't accidentally change the positions of your SCREEN settings, since they are right beside the FOCUS settings on your focus block, and are very easy to mistake for each other, when you're not looking. Possibly decimating your grayscale. I still do that occasionally, even tho I have done many years' worth of calibrations. Fortunately I have the chops and the equipment to be able to correct such things on the spot. Grayscale is usually done after the image structure anyway, on my calibrations. Very few amateurs are similarly qualified. Just ask Michael about HIS learning curve on grayscale...

Every time you change the position of the lens barrels via loosening up the wingnuts and making changes, you significantly change the SIZE of that image, relative to the other 2 images. Wrecking a possibly perfect convergence job. The convergence has to be completely redone to restore its precision in such a case.

Since you loosened your wingnuts and moved your lens positions to doublecheck your focusing, have fun with your convergence now. If you had practiced the CT, you might have been able to leave it ALL alone -


It's ALWAYS best to LEAVE ALONE WHATEVER YOU CAN in a calibration. I make that statement with MANY years of experience backing it up. I am sure there are those out there who have painted themselves into a corner on various issues who would agree with me...


:o


Mr Bob

PS - typing out this whole thing, rereading it, correcting that, rereading it again, correcting more...

This entire diatribe I just "whipped out" has taken me more than an hour. An hour I will never see again. I hope to GOD somebody gets something out of it!

:eek:

Well I dont know if my set is 98% -100% in focus. I would think its not. Based on the screen shots I've seen from Michael. Mr. Bob and a few others I would say not. I dont know if I can see the scan lines but I do seem to see the grain on some video. I will check. I have been bothered by that awesome screenshot Michael put up a month or more ago. I really thought my set was as close to as good as it could get until I saw that shot. I have to look back to see what the shot was of but I remember it beingawesome.

I think the difference on Michael's set and a regular looking good set is the careful detail he's put into the minor, that are actually the major, details, such as making gamma and grayscale perfect or close to it.

I've been playing around with grayscale and gamma and is not as easy as it sounds, but even making it closer gives you a much better picture, more detailed and depth. I would recommend anyone with a perfectionist mind to get a colorimeter, you will learn alot from it and about your set.

I've been playing around with grayscale and gamma and is not as easy as it sounds, but even making it closer gives you a much better picture, more detailed and depth. I would recommend anyone with a perfectionist mind to get a colorimeter, you will learn alot from it and about your set.

And we're here to help! Go for it!
Michael

We'll I finally Blacked-Out the inside of my Hitachi. Had my son & his friend help me get the screen Off/On. The haloing & reflections was killing me..

BEFORE:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2443.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2444.jpg

AFTER:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2445.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2446.jpg

So far it seems to have helped a lot..

awesome BFJ! one little detailed, that I also missed when I did mine and had to go back in. missed the wingnuts and screws. Nevertheless it looks nice and black.

awesome BFJ! one little detailed, that I also missed when I did mine and had to go back in. missed the wingnuts and screws. Nevertheless it looks nice and black.

I actually did the wingnuts & screws after I took that picture :D

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2445.jpg

You can also see that the left side is showing more glossiness and thus seems more reflective than the right side, on the flat panels that are parallel to the lenses themselves. Being on the same plane as the lenses, those areas do some of the most reflecting.

Something flat in its surface finish would eliminate that. You have glossy showing there. The flash you used is showing more on the left than the right because of the camera angle, and thus the flash angle. Perfect example of an internal reflection.


Mr Bob