Man I feel for you. My interior was all flat black to begin with except for the area around the lenses. Basically the bottom area. I had the metal and particle board to do and that was it. Thats a lot of area you had to cover with the inside being gray like that.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2445.jpg

You can also see that the left side is showing more glossiness and thus seems more reflective than the right side, on the flat panels that are parallel to the lenses themselves. Being on the same plane as the lenses, those areas do some of the most reflecting.

Something flat in its surface finish would eliminate that. You have glossy showing there. The flash you used is showing more on the left than the right because of the camera angle, and thus the flash angle. Perfect example of an internal reflection.


Mr Bob

I see exactly what your saying Mr. Bob.. The paint I used was somewhat glossy. Looks like I will have to go back-in & touch-it up with some flat paint.. :mad: :mad:

I went-in on a spur of the moment & that was the only paint I had @ the time..

I see exactly what your saying Mr. Bob.. The paint I used was somewhat glossy. Looks like I will have to go back-in & touch-it up with some flat paint.. :mad: :mad:

I went-in on a spur of the moment & that was the only paint I had @ the time..

Just rough up the surface (the PAINTED surface) with fine sandpaper. You don't need to repaint.

Just rough up the surface (the PAINTED surface) with fine sandpaper. You don't need to repaint.

What # sandpaper would you recommend?

What # sandpaper would you recommend?

Any fine grit wet (to reduce dust) paper should do. All you want to do is roughen up the glossy surface.

BFJ96,
Excellent work so far. Time for a lens hood?

Any fine grit wet (to reduce dust) paper should do. All you want to do is roughen up the glossy surface.

I picked-up a FLAT PAINT. I'll just re-do it again. Not a big-deal. Here's hoping since I only put 1 coat of paint down, the FLAT will take better with a couple of coats

BFJ96,

You should really rough up the surface of the existing paint. If it was a semi-gloss you might experience adhesion problems. That is, the heat of the guns could cause the flat paint not to stick to the previous painted surface. I have worked for several paint companies for a long time, and would not want to see your hard work ruined. It would only take a little more elbow grease and time to do it right, and you are already put in effort to get the most out of your set as possible.

BFJ96,

You should really rough up the surface of the existing paint. If it was a semi-gloss you might experience adhesion problems. That is, the heat of the guns could cause the flat paint not to stick to the previous painted surface. I have worked for several paint companies for a long time, and would not want to see your hard work ruined. It would only take a little more elbow grease and time to do it right, and you are already put in effort to get the most out of your set as possible.

Thanks bozee. Is there some kind sand-paper you would recommend? LBNL suggested Grit-wet. If that's good what # should I use

A fine/medium sanding sponge should work great, these are available at most big box stores an standalone paint stores. The sponge will allow you to use a damp method of sanding and give you something more substantial to hold on to than just a sheet of sandpaper.

A fine/medium sanding sponge should work great, these are available at most big box stores an standalone paint stores. The sponge will allow you to use a damp method of sanding and give you something more substantial to hold on to than just a sheet of sandpaper.

Awesome... Thanks

Finally picked up a PS3 yesterday and it included a Blu-ray disc with a ton of previews. The Planet Earth preview was about 5 minutes long and had my jaw on the floor. Made me appreciate the set like never before. I just sat back and admired my handiwork. Re-enforced that the time was all worth it.

Yeah. I know I need to buy Planet Earth. That's a no brainer. Ever since I saw it on DiscoveryHD, it's been at the top of my "To Buy" list once I bought a PS3.

That's what the CT is for. It's not for focusing. It's for doublechecking. Or even singlechecking. For checking the focus WITHOUT changing it.

Practicing it you can see where the out of focusing points are vs. the at-rest center'd position of the screen, by moving the SCREEN in and out, rather than disturbing the possibly already perfect wingnut settings of your lens barrels. If your set was in perfect optical/mechanical focus already, you'd see that as the point where the screen is just sitting there, at rest, because you've compared it to the OUT of focus points of your screen's postitioning. And KNOW it's perfect already, as it sits, without changing anything involving the focus settings. 100% in. Done. Without "breaking any seals" on the factory's mechanical focusing job.



Yes, and that is very valuable IF your set needs any focusing at all. If it does not, which you can verify via the CT, you don't even need to go there. You see what 100% focusing looks like, vs. 98% in/forward towards you and 98% in/away from you of the screen's position, without ever disturbing the lens focusing while the screen is in its at-rest position.

Or the position of the wingnut settings when the screen is centered/at-rest.

Sony's CRT lens positions are usually 100% IN, OOB, every time, and the same goes for their Screen trimpot settings, all 6 settings of which they immobilize on their focus blocks with white glue. I usually don't need to change ANYTHING about the Sony settings, on ANY of their focusings. The CT is INVALUABLE for discovering this, and leaving ALL their settings ALONE.

The simple, quick CT doublecheck procedure usually allows me to completely skip the ENTIRE focusing procedure on Sonys. May have allowed you to entirely skip yours as well, if you can see 480p scanlines clearly, OOB, and 1080i scanlines during certain types of scenes, at 8-10' - and the grain of the film they use to shoot movies - with no sweat. This is my criteria.

They are the ONLY brand I will say that about. Usually I find at least 2 of the lenses out of focus OOB, if not all 3, via the CT.


This also, if you're an amateur at calibrations, assures that don't accidentally change the positions of your SCREEN settings, since they are right beside the FOCUS settings on your focus block, and are very easy to mistake for each other, when you're not looking. Possibly decimating your grayscale. I still do that occasionally, even tho I have done many years' worth of calibrations. Fortunately I have the chops and the equipment to be able to correct such things on the spot. Grayscale is usually done after the image structure anyway, on my calibrations. Very few amateurs are similarly qualified. Just ask Michael about HIS learning curve on grayscale...

Every time you change the position of the lens barrels via loosening up the wingnuts and making changes, you significantly change the SIZE of that image, relative to the other 2 images. Wrecking a possibly perfect convergence job. The convergence has to be completely redone to restore its precision in such a case.

Since you loosened your wingnuts and moved your lens positions to doublecheck your focusing, have fun with your convergence now. If you had practiced the CT, you might have been able to leave it ALL alone -


It's ALWAYS best to LEAVE ALONE WHATEVER YOU CAN in a calibration. I make that statement with MANY years of experience backing it up. I am sure there are those out there who have painted themselves into a corner on various issues who would agree with me...


:o


Mr Bob

PS - typing out this whole thing, rereading it, correcting that, rereading it again, correcting more...

This entire diatribe I just "whipped out" has taken me more than an hour. An hour I will never see again. I hope to GOD somebody gets something out of it!

:eek:

I guess I was totally misinterpreting what it was for. Oh, well, my set was definitely out of focus OOB and required the original refocusing that I did. By getting the brilliant idea to do that technique 1.5 years after the problem was properly addressed, all I really did the other week was create needless work. No harm done. I think everyone here expects that by now.

I'm positive it needed work, because my corners were way to blurry and the "balance" was in serious need of adjustment. By balance, I'm talking focus for the entire screen, not just the very center.

Moron alert! So with my recent PS3 purchase (which now gets the HDMI slot), I was resolved to fix my input 3 today (been stuck on 480i). I'm reading through the service manual and thinking I've found a section that looks moderately interesting. So I enter the service menu, play around a little, and decide I need to hook a device up. As soon as I do and recheck the television, I notice that I have my cursor sitting on Format. And it reads 480i. WHAT?! I never touched format cause I thought it would either launch missiles or reset all my settings. So I go and change the format to 1080i and *drumroll* I've got my 1080i HD back on Input 3.

EDIT: Have changed it to AUTO setting and now it scales for whatever the input.

I'm positive it needed work, because my corners were way to blurry and the "balance" was in serious need of adjustment. By balance, I'm talking focus for the entire screen, not just the very center.

That's different. That's this:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/scheimpfluge.html

More fun and games!

That's different. That's this:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/scheimpfluge.html

More fun and games!

I couldn't get that link to work.

If that link is talking about scheimpflug, that may or may not apply.

If he was talking about center vs. edge focusing, sch does not apply.

If so, then due to the limitations on the quality of his lenses, a compromise may have been in order. The most expensive lenses on CRT RPTVs don't require any compromises - you do the CT and you're there. On front project, the secondary wingnut on each lens often has to be played with, to get the center to be at the same focusing tightness as the outer edges.

On inferior inexpensive lenses, like those often used in the smaller HDready RPTVs, compromises may be called for even using the CT. Back in the SD days before HD, before the entire screen could be worked with on a fine tuned basis, Sony recommended getting the part of the image that is 1/3 out from center all around the best, allowing just a smidge of offness in the focussing at the center and some amount of offness also at the outer edges, with that 1/3 out from center area all around, being in perfect focus.

This is excellent advice if your HDready lenses are not the finest, where by finest I mean where they have designed in center to edge linearity into the optical focusing of the lenses themselves, like is designed in on my 73" Mit with the 9" guns. These lenses aren't a smooth curve at the top - they are in a bit at the center and bulged out a little bit 2/3 out, and taper off drastically at the actual edges.

Guess that's what it takes to get that center to edge optical focusing uniformity in RPTV lenses, with the throw distance between CRT face and view screen having to be so short. A perfectly smooth and linear edge to edge curve, all the way from center to edge on lenses with such a short throw as we are stuck with on RPTVs, just ain't gonna do it -


Mr Bob

I posted this in another thread, and wanted to post it here since this is the main Hitachi thread.

If you are unfortunate enough (like me) to break your (51f59) screen, Sears Parts Direct have replacement assemblies in stock, and the shipping is cheap.

I replaced mine last week and couldn't be happier(except for tweaking)

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/displayPartDetailAction.action?partNumber=UX26081&productGroupId=0057&supplierId=528&brandId=x&documentId=50029271&keySuffixId=NA&modelNumber=x&keyId=004&pageId=00001&productTypeId=x&searchModelNumber=51f59&backToLink=Return%20to%20Part%20List

They have other parts as well! Including the 57 & 65!

I posted this in another thread, and wanted to post it here since this is the main Hitachi thread.

If you are unfortunate enough (like me) to break your (51f59) screen, Sears Parts Direct have replacement assemblies in stock, and the shipping is cheap.

I replaced mine last week and couldn't be happier(except for tweaking)

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/displayPartDetailAction.action?partNumber=UX26081&productGroupId=0057&supplierId=528&brandId=x&documentId=50029271&keySuffixId=NA&modelNumber=x&keyId=004&pageId=00001&productTypeId=x&searchModelNumber=51f59&backToLink=Return%20to%20Part%20List

They have other parts as well! Including the 57 & 65!

Is that for the whole thing including the glarescreen? All 3 layers?

If so, that's a good price!


Mr Bob

As soon as you enter the Service Menu, you'll see:

White Balance High
White Balance Med
White Balance STD

Depending on what mode you are using for your input, you can adjust the RDRV, GDRV, RCUT, BCUT, GCUT values. These are global adjustments, so they will apply to all inputs. There is no Blue DRV adjustment.

Ok so you can get three seperate signal tunings. I would tune 480i component with STD, then run 720p or 1080i component and tune MED, then run 720p or 1080i from my blue ray player and tune that up in High. Is that what you guys are doing?

You definetly what to send 720p over HDMI not 1080i, 720p is much more stable. You do want to use virtual HD 1080i. Checked it over with HD-DVE patterns, I always wondered the effect of 540p vs 1080i choices. 540p does seems to clear up text in patterns better than 1080i but it drops resolution lines. You could see half the lines disapear in the demo material, like Lisa's shoulder has jaggies that are very noticable in 540p and just about gone with 1080i choice.

Is that for the whole thing including the glarescreen? All 3 layers?

If so, that's a good price!


Mr Bob


Mr Bob,

Yes. It arrived with the screen(s) held together by two metal brackets at the top and bottom. I thought that the plastic outer frame would be included, but it wasn't.

When my old screen cracked it looked like it had only two layers(fresnal & lenticular), but I could be wrong.

Mr Bob,

Yes. It arrived with the screen(s) held together by two metal brackets at the top and bottom. I thought that the plastic outer frame would be included, but it wasn't.

When my old screen cracked it looked like it had only two layers(fresnal & lenticular), but I could be wrong.

We don't have a glarescreen (which is probably just as well). The plastic outer frame is probably model-dependent; the screens will fit any 51 inch RPCRT. Easy enough (though tedious) to remove the old screens from the frame.
Mr. Bob has suggested cotton gloves when handling the screens to reduce the chance of oily fingerprints.
Good luck.

Ok so you can get three seperate signal tunings. I would tune 480i component with STD, then run 720p or 1080i component and tune MED, then run 720p or 1080i from my blue ray player and tune that up in High. Is that what you guys are doing?


Actually, no, that didn't work well for me, even after recalibrating high to 6500K (default from Hitachi is 10500K). Should look exactly like std, but doesn't. Sorry, but I didn't care enough to spend the time to figure out why, so I can't offer an explanation. I just calibrated my HD input, since that's what I use most, and the other inputs were tweaked slightly in the user menu for good fleshtones. Didn't take much, and they certainly look okay. So I run everything at STD.

actually, no, that didn't work well for me, even after recalibrating high to 6500k (default from hitachi is 10500k). Should look exactly like std, but doesn't. Sorry, but i didn't care enough to spend the time to figure out why, so i can't offer an explanation. I just calibrated my hd input, since that's what i use most, and the other inputs were tweaked slightly in the user menu for good fleshtones. Didn't take much, and they certainly look okay. So i run everything at std.

+1

Thanks well I guess it's ok for someone using everything run out of HDMI from a receiver every thing at 720p. I tryed using colorfacts to tune 720p hdmi from a Sammy BD5000 using the middle choice and it didn't work out too well. I got this blue hump problem in the mids. Even though 80ire and 35ire were correct. More work needed.

Ok so you can get three seperate signal tunings. I would tune 480i component with STD, then run 720p or 1080i component and tune MED, then run 720p or 1080i from my blue ray player and tune that up in High. Is that what you guys are doing?

You definetly what to send 720p over HDMI not 1080i, 720p is much more stable. You do want to use virtual HD 1080i. Checked it over with HD-DVE patterns, I always wondered the effect of 540p vs 1080i choices. 540p does seems to clear up text in patterns better than 1080i but it drops resolution lines. You could see half the lines disapear in the demo material, like Lisa's shoulder has jaggies that are very noticable in 540p and just about gone with 1080i choice.

I use STD for everything, and 1080i for HD, as its pixel density is twice that of 720p, with far less ee. You won't need anything else but D6500K in your grayscale setup. Doing 1080i gets the image structure right for 540p much better than sending in 480i/p for it.


Mr Bob

My experience on bringing the set to D65 on a Hitachi 57F59 is that temperature High needs to be at default (mid point) for cuts and drives, if this is supposes to be at 10500K like Michael says I don't know, but I can say that if you have changed High, like I did before, it will be impossible to get a a flat calibration nor a linear gamma. Also if you have any of the "tweaks" on, it will make it much more difficult to calibrate. Michael (LBNL) recommended to turn everything off, calibrate and then play with the tweaks, and he is right on.

So, I don't know if all set have a temp color that they use as an anchor to the other temps, may be Bob can elaborate on this, but on Hit you have to have HIGH fairly ok before you can calibrate the others.

Ok so you can get three seperate signal tunings. I would tune 480i component with STD, then run 720p or 1080i component and tune MED, then run 720p or 1080i from my blue ray player and tune that up in High. Is that what you guys are doing?

You definetly what to send 720p over HDMI not 1080i, 720p is much more stable. You do want to use virtual HD 1080i. Checked it over with HD-DVE patterns, I always wondered the effect of 540p vs 1080i choices. 540p does seems to clear up text in patterns better than 1080i but it drops resolution lines. You could see half the lines disapear in the demo material, like Lisa's shoulder has jaggies that are very noticable in 540p and just about gone with 1080i choice.


I use STD for my Component input (SATELLITE), and MED for HDMI (Bluray). The black level coming from my sat box appears to be at 7.5, whereas the Blu-Ray is at 0.
As for 720p instead of 1080i for source, I always use 1080i, that way there is little or no processing required by VHD. I also see no reason to downrez my input signal. Jaggies don't seem to bother me.

Thanks well I guess it's ok for someone using everything run out of HDMI from a receiver every thing at 720p. I tryed using colorfacts to tune 720p hdmi from a Sammy BD5000 using the middle choice and it didn't work out too well. I got this blue hump problem in the mids. Even though 80ire and 35ire were correct. More work needed.

Blue hump is solved by defocusing.

From Kal's Guide for Dummies:

This is called the 'blue hump' as there is too much blue in the middle region from 30 to 80 IRE and often not enough blue elsewhere. If we adjust RGBHighEnd and RGBLowEnd for perfect levels around the 50 IRE point, the blue simply drops off even more at either end of the graph so we're not better off than before.

The solution is fortunately an easy one: Defocussing blue electronically. By defocussing the blue tube the blue light output will increase allowing us to lower the RGBLowEnd and RGBHighEnd values and thus creating a flatter greyscale. The defocussing must be done electronically and not by adjusting the blue lens. To adjust electronically either use the remote (on newer electromagnetic CRT projectors) or the G2 pot (older electrostatic CRT projectors). See your user manual on how to access this control.

All CRT projectors will have a blue hump of some sort and defocussing the blue tube to some degree is a requirement. Some CRT projectors even have an option to automatically defocus blue for you: You set up the projector for the sharpest blue possible then flick a switch to defocus blue a preset amount automatically.

To lower the blue hump, defocus the blue tube just a little bit and start over at Step 6.2 and work your way through again. When you re-measure your entire greyscale again the hump should be lower. Defocus some more and try again if it's still not low enough. Do not be concerned if extreme amounts of blue defocus are required. While the defocussing may be visible when standing next to the screen, an even highly defocussed blue will not be visible by the viewer at typical seating distances (i.e.: 1.2-1.5 screen widths away) as our eyes have a horrible time focusing on blue.

Blue hump is solved by defocusing.

From Kal's Guide for Dummies:

This is called the 'blue hump' as there is too much blue in the middle region from 30 to 80 IRE and often not enough blue elsewhere. If we adjust RGBHighEnd and RGBLowEnd for perfect levels around the 50 IRE point, the blue simply drops off even more at either end of the graph so we're not better off than before.

The solution is fortunately an easy one: Defocussing blue electronically. By defocussing the blue tube the blue light output will increase allowing us to lower the RGBLowEnd and RGBHighEnd values and thus creating a flatter greyscale. The defocussing must be done electronically and not by adjusting the blue lens. To adjust electronically either use the remote (on newer electromagnetic CRT projectors) or the G2 pot (older electrostatic CRT projectors). See your user manual on how to access this control.

All CRT projectors will have a blue hump of some sort and defocussing the blue tube to some degree is a requirement. Some CRT projectors even have an option to automatically defocus blue for you: You set up the projector for the sharpest blue possible then flick a switch to defocus blue a preset amount automatically.

To lower the blue hump, defocus the blue tube just a little bit and start over at Step 6.2 and work your way through again. When you re-measure your entire greyscale again the hump should be lower. Defocus some more and try again if it's still not low enough. Do not be concerned if extreme amounts of blue defocus are required. While the defocussing may be visible when standing next to the screen, an even highly defocussed blue will not be visible by the viewer at typical seating distances (i.e.: 1.2-1.5 screen widths away) as our eyes have a horrible time focusing on blue.

Great stuff. I didn't know that about blue, have been precisely focusing blue on all the newer gen sets, simply because blue defocusing was no longer needed for light output, like it was before.

Thanks to Kal -


Mr Bob

Is that for the whole thing including the glarescreen? All 3 layers?

If so, that's a good price!


Mr Bob


F59s don't have glarescreeens, just the lent/fresnel sandwich & Magic Focus sensors in frame. Vance Baldwin part is/was similar in price.

Very good find, though, and good to know. Nice to see Sears as a parts source in this case.

I use STD for my Component input (SATELLITE), and MED for HDMI (Bluray). The black level coming from my sat box appears to be at 7.5, whereas the Blu-Ray is at 0.
As for 720p instead of 1080i for source, I always use 1080i, that way there is little or no processing required by VHD. I also see no reason to downrez my input signal. Jaggies don't seem to bother me.

Look over the demo material in HD-DVE, the New York building scenes show different levels of jaggies and moire switching from 720p to 1080i. 720p looked better here using the Samsung BD5000. Plus on the pattern that shows deinterlacing ability (several boxes of B/W scan lines in the center of the pattern )it shows all the scan lines vs missing parts of the pattern when using 1080i with the Sammy.

Great stuff. I didn't know that about blue, have been precisely focusing blue on all the newer gen sets, simply because blue defocusing was no longer needed for light output, like it was before.

Thanks to Kal -


Mr Bob

Yep good one I needed that, blue tracking had me puzzled.

Look over the demo material in HD-DVE, the New York building scenes show different levels of jaggies and moire switching from 720p to 1080i. 720p looked better here using the Samsung BD5000. Plus on the pattern that shows deinterlacing ability (several boxes of B/W scan lines in the center of the pattern )it shows all the scan lines vs missing parts of the pattern when using 1080i with the Sammy.

I have seen the opposite be true when studying HD-DVE from my PS3. Perhaps (just a guess) this is an issue with the 1080i output of the Samsung, because there is no reason that a 720p signal should be as crisp or as detailed as 1080i.

The CRT's in these Hit sets can natively run at 480 or 1080, but not 720 lines. That means any 720 signal you send the set is being electronically enlarged by the TV, which will introduce edge ringing and other scaling artifacts. Don't get me wrong: 720-line images can still look good on these sets, but if you're switching resolutions from the same source component and 720 is looking better to you than 1080, then something's wrong with your source.

I tried the same tests with the Tosh HD-A1. The reason I took a look at 720p is because in the front CRT forum consensus is 720p is the sweet spot for 7 inch CRT guns. 720p was recommended for my Dwin HD-500 7"s.

OK the test in HD-DVE system evaluation. The SMPTE 133 that evaulates whether the TV can recognize or do a true progressive scan image, its fails badly in 1080i (tons of flickering in the test boxes) which means it can't produce a progressive scan image for 1080i, 720p shows a stable image. The TV looks better setting a player to 720p and using the TV's upscacle at 1080i, viewing the demo material in DVE. But displays properly deintlacing with motion detection are rare anyway, my Sharp DT400 doesn't deinterlace correctly plus it goes to the bob when I send 1080i. So I use 720p

But there is some kind of smear in the resolution pattern with 720p, 1080i deletes the slight smear at the top of the resolution. I don't know what's worse :) I'll stick with the deinterlacing with either player.

Late edit:
Hey no blue hump, I must hv brain farted the last time I tuned the grayscle, didn't notice the brightess flip when you choose a drive to change. I think I just left it there with the wrong gray. :)

This tuning done with colorfacts and thre Greg Macbeth Eye one is right on. Rarely do I get this lucky on the first attempt. I even like the 2.44 gamma for CRT. Needless to the the test images look awesome now, using the Sammy BD5000 and 720p ;).
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hitachi.jpg

wow...I guess I will need to get an Eye One or similiar device. Seems like everyone who has doesn't regret it. I have always run my Tosh A20 on 1080i. Maybe I will play around with it on 720p. I run everything thru 1080i, SAT, Tosh....figured thats the highest res my set can run so why go down. I understand 720p but if my eyes/brain cant detect the actual interlacing then I cant see why I would go with 720p. Old argument anyway. Preference of the user I guess.

Good point 1080i doesn't show poor deinterlacing that easy. But it is there, look over the HD or Blue Ray DVE test I mentioned. On pro grayscale tuning it's just nice and pure piece of mind knowing you're seeing the colors they way they're meant to be. My Hitachi looks absolutely great now.

But there is some kind of smear in the resolution pattern with 720p, 1080i deletes the slight smear at the top of the resolution. I don't know what's worse :) I'll stick with the deinterlacing with either player.


This was interesting. Thanks for motivating me to do it.
I used AVS HD 709 on an Onkyo 805 to my Hitachi 57F59A.
This is the "Sharpness and Overscan" pattern. At 1080i, the SMPTE patterns in the upper right and lower left do, indeed, flicker. At 720p, they do not, but the lines are thicker. More importantly, the dot pattern in the middle is even at 1080i; at 720p some dots are brighter than others.

720p

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9383/p1010899uu9.jpg

1080i

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9297/p1010898kx9.jpg

More interesting is the "Star Chart." This is just the center of the chart at both resolutions.

720p

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7840/p1010900rv1.jpg

1080i

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/504/p1010901dv0.jpg

So I'm keeping mine at 1080i, but now I KNOW why. Thanks.

And, yes, I'm as twisted (I just have less hair). Great picture.

Michael

Thanks bozee. Is there some kind sand-paper you would recommend? LBNL suggested Grit-wet. If that's good what # should I use

I work at a bodyshop, I'd recommend 600 grit. 3M makes awesome sandpaper.

I know i'm like a ghost around here now, blogging and writing for print has been taking up all my time lately, but hopefully it will get me to sunny Brisbane, CA in a year or two :)

I work at a bodyshop, I'd recommend 600 grit. 3M makes awesome sandpaper.

I know i'm like a ghost around here now, blogging and writing for print has been taking up all my time lately, but hopefully it will get me to sunny Brisbane, CA in a year or two :)

That's a very cozy little place around here, right next to the Bay and not far from the Cow Palace, a very world class venue for big events.


Mr Bob

This was interesting. Thanks for motivating me to do it.
I used AVS HD 709 on an Onkyo 805 to my Hitachi 57F59A.
This is the "Sharpness and Overscan" pattern. At 1080i, the SMPTE patterns in the upper right and lower left do, indeed, flicker. At 720p, they do not, but the lines are thicker. More importantly, the dot pattern in the middle is even at 1080i; at 720p some dots are brighter than others.

720p

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9383/p1010899uu9.jpg

1080i

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9297/p1010898kx9.jpg

More interesting is the "Star Chart." This is just the center of the chart at both resolutions.

720p

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7840/p1010900rv1.jpg

1080i

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/504/p1010901dv0.jpg

So I'm keeping mine at 1080i, but now I KNOW why. Thanks.

And, yes, I'm as twisted (I just have less hair). Great picture.

Michael

Yeah but I'm using the BD5000 with the HQV Reon chip, throw top notch deinterlacing and motion adaptive for a hardly noticable resolution sharpness difference. Our buddies at Secrets could never agree here. :) They might as well never opened up shop. ;)

I would like someone else with a 57F59 to perform this quick check for me on their set please:

In a darkened room:
Enter the service mode, and cursor right on the SERVICE entry.
What color traces to have up on the screen?

I only have RED and GREEN up, no BLUE. This indicates to me that my set's VR cutoff is no longer set right for BLUE.

I have no idea when this happened, just starting noticing green kept creeping into the picture. Come to find out, its because blue looks to be too low.

Thanks in advance....

I would like someone else with a 57F59 to perform this quick check for me on their set please:

In a darkened room:
Enter the service mode, and cursor right on the SERVICE entry.
What color traces to have up on the screen?

I only have RED and GREEN up, no BLUE. This indicates to me that my set's VR cutoff is no longer set right for BLUE.

I have no idea when this happened, just starting noticing green kept creeping into the picture. Come to find out, its because blue looks to be too low.

Thanks in advance....

They overlap, so it may just be hidden. Try the same thing first changing RGBOUT. If you still don't see blue, you have a problem (fortunately for you, a small problem).

You can also toggle thru the RGB in the convergence area. See how blue compares to red, on mine they're about the same brightness. You could even unconverge an area to see how bright each color is.

I would like someone else with a 57F59 to perform this quick check for me on their set please:

In a darkened room:
Enter the service mode, and cursor right on the SERVICE entry.
What color traces to have up on the screen?

I only have RED and GREEN up, no BLUE. This indicates to me that my set's VR cutoff is no longer set right for BLUE.

I have no idea when this happened, just starting noticing green kept creeping into the picture. Come to find out, its because blue looks to be too low.

Thanks in advance....


Hitachi's "Service" election is the same as everybody used to use in the old days, when all we had were directviews - a straight horizontal line that they would play with via the Screen controls until it looked white. Since Hit doesn't even mention D6500K in their technical lit on their sets, I'm amazed at all the high tech that is in their sm's. But it is. And yet so is this. Antiquated methodolgy, to the max.

It is MUCH better and more accurate to use a grayscale pattern to set up your D6500K than the white hor line. The hor white line method is really hopelessly outdated these days.


Mr Bob

This was interesting. Thanks for motivating me to do it.
I used AVS HD 709 on an Onkyo 805 to my Hitachi 57F59A.
This is the "Sharpness and Overscan" pattern. At 1080i, the SMPTE patterns in the upper right and lower left do, indeed, flicker. At 720p, they do not, but the lines are thicker. More importantly, the dot pattern in the middle is even at 1080i; at 720p some dots are brighter than others.

720p

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9383/p1010899uu9.jpg

1080i

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9297/p1010898kx9.jpg

More interesting is the "Star Chart." This is just the center of the chart at both resolutions.

720p

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7840/p1010900rv1.jpg

1080i

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/504/p1010901dv0.jpg

So I'm keeping mine at 1080i, but now I KNOW why. Thanks.

And, yes, I'm as twisted (I just have less hair). Great picture.

Michael


These star burst and dot images are interesting, from the look of them it means 1080i shows a chrisper image. Great picture (yes) my wife took that and caught me off guard. We've all been there, too many wires and devices amazing we can keep it all together. :)

They overlap, so it may just be hidden. Try the same thing first changing RGBOUT. If you still don't see blue, you have a problem (fortunately for you, a small problem).

I did try it using RGBOUT. That's how I found out that Blue is not running cutoff like the other 2 guns. It does work however. I was noticing that when I would run grayscale measurements, Red and Green were always too high in comparison at the low IREs.

Hitachi's "Service" election is the same as everybody used to use in the old days, when all we had were directviews - a straight horizontal line that they would play with via the Screen controls until it looked white. Since Hit doesn't even mention D6500K in their technical lit on their sets, I'm amazed at all the high tech that is in their sm's. But it is. And yet so is this. Antiquated methodolgy, to the max.

It is MUCH better and more accurate to use a grayscale pattern to set up your D6500K than the white hor line. The hor white line method is really hopelessly outdated these days.


Mr Bob

That's true Bob, except I've had to turn the green cut down to almost 0 when running grayscale. So, it looks like I need to adjust the VR pot. At a minimum, turn it back and forth and back to where it belongs to see if the pot just needed a swiping action to clear this up.

Amazon.com offers the X-Rite Eye-One Display LT, model no. EODLT, for $119.99 with free shipping. That's $26 off and the lowest total price we could find by $20. This compact colorimeter works with both LCD and CRT displays for both Macs and PCs.

You'll need ColorHCFR (free):
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

and a guide (free):
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Go for it!

Michael

That's true Bob, except I've had to turn the green cut down to almost 0 when running grayscale. So, it looks like I need to adjust the VR pot. At a minimum, turn it back and forth and back to where it belongs to see if the pot just needed a swiping action to clear this up.

Is zero centerpoint, or minimum point?

When setting focus block trimpots, ideally we centerpoint all cutoff controls before altering the trimpot positions. If you intend to change the trimpot position, I suggest you do the same.

If zero is centerpoint rather than minimum point, leave it at zero.

Some brands, like Sony, have a self-limiting circuit in there that makes setting the trimpots very difficult without special procedures. I THINK Hit doesn't have those, which makes them a lot easier to set the trimpots on.


Mr Bob

..., except I've had to turn the green cut down to almost 0 when running grayscale. So, it looks like I need to adjust the VR pot. At a minimum, turn it back and forth and back to where it belongs to see if the pot just needed a swiping action to clear this up.

Hey Lee, have you checked your High Temp CUT/DRIVE settings? have they been changed at all?

I asked, because I changed mine in the process of trying to make it look better before I got a Spyder2 and could take measurements, and these settings if not at default alter the other temps. I checked every single SM setting and put it back to default as per the Service Manual.

At one point, I was considering redoing the VR pots, and re doing focusing for all three colors. After getting everything back to default and running measurements, ended up not touching the pots amd leaving foucus alone due to the blue hump discussed earlier. Now my set is very linear compared to before and my colors are responding the way they supposed to. before this my blue was, to call it something, WILD, you can check my measurements in the color decoding / screenshot thread.

I hope this helpls.

Is zero centerpoint, or minimum point?

When setting focus block trimpots, ideally we centerpoint all cutoff controls before altering the trimpot positions. If you intend to change the trimpot position, I suggest you do the same.

If zero is centerpoint rather than minimum point, leave it at zero.

Some brands, like Sony, have a self-limiting circuit in there that makes setting the trimpots very difficult without special procedures. I THINK Hit doesn't have those, which makes them a lot easier to set the trimpots on.


Mr Bob

Zero is the minimum point on the Hitachi.

Hey Lee, have you checked your High Temp CUT/DRIVE settings? have they been changed at all?

I asked, because I changed mine in the process of trying to make it look better before I got a Spyder2 and could take measurements, and these settings if not at default alter the other temps. I checked every single SM setting and put it back to default as per the Service Manual.

At one point, I was considering redoing the VR pots, and re doing focusing for all three colors. After getting everything back to default and running measurements, ended up not touching the pots amd leaving foucus alone due to the blue hump discussed earlier. Now my set is very linear compared to before and my colors are responding the way they supposed to. before this my blue was, to call it something, WILD, you can check my measurements in the color decoding / screenshot thread.

I hope this helpls.

Good Stuff Leo. I too had noticed that the HIGH Cut/Drive values when changed affect the other Color Temps even without changing them. This might be what's going on with Lee's Green Issue

Zero is the minimum point on the Hitachi.

Then yeah, you really need to rebalance your Screen control on that color, keeping your CUT on that CRT at its midpoint during the trimpot alignment, before fine tuning the grayscale more after that.

Exercising that trimpot to see if that cleans up any hinkiness is a good idea. You might want to mark your starting point before you touch it, JIC. Those trimpots are very sensitive.


Mr Bob

Hey Lee, have you checked your High Temp CUT/DRIVE settings? have they been changed at all?

I asked, because I changed mine in the process of trying to make it look better before I got a Spyder2 and could take measurements, and these settings if not at default alter the other temps. I checked every single SM setting and put it back to default as per the Service Manual.

At one point, I was considering redoing the VR pots, and re doing focusing for all three colors. After getting everything back to default and running measurements, ended up not touching the pots amd leaving foucus alone due to the blue hump discussed earlier. Now my set is very linear compared to before and my colors are responding the way they supposed to. before this my blue was, to call it something, WILD, you can check my measurements in the color decoding / screenshot thread.

I hope this helpls.

My White Balance HIGH settings are untouched, still at default settings, which are all the midpoints. 3f,3f,7f,7f,7f.

I know that on these sets, when set up by the factory, that they are supposed to be set up by adjusting the HIGH balance to 10,000k. This then affects the MED and STD registers. Of course, the manual shows to set up using Black Level at 50, and Contrast at 100 for setting the HIGH balance!

Then yeah, you really need to rebalance your Screen control on that color, keeping your CUT on that CRT at its midpoint during the trimpot alignment, before fine tuning the grayscale more after that.

Exercising that trimpot to see if that cleans up any hinkiness is a good idea. You might want to mark your starting point before you touch it, JIC. Those trimpots are very sensitive.


Mr Bob

Got them marked with a streak of white out on all the trimpots. Just need some TIME this weekend.

Got them marked with a streak of white out on all the trimpots. Just need some TIME this weekend.

Good Luck Lee...

My White Balance HIGH settings are untouched, still at default settings, which are all the midpoints. 3f,3f,7f,7f,7f.

I know that on these sets, when set up by the factory, that they are supposed to be set up by adjusting the HIGH balance to 10,000k. This then affects the MED and STD registers. Of course, the manual shows to set up using Black Level at 50, and Contrast at 100 for setting the HIGH balance!

I reset my HIGH to 6500. Redid grayscale at STD. Didn't seem to make a difference one way or the other (ie, I didn't see any advantage to leaving HIGH at 10000 or changing it).
However, changing a setting at HIGH definitely affects that setting in MED and STD (though they are independent of each other).
I guess rather than play with the trimpots you could change the HIGH DRV's; haven't tried that myself, but will keep it in mind next time I feel like "playing."
I don't think the white-out will help you much. When Bob says those pots are sensitive he's not kidding - just tapping them changes the setting.
You use CalMan, don't you?
Good luck.

Another observation for Grayscale;

As I mentioned before, first I calibrated with the way the set was with tweaks and color decoding prior to use the colorimeter, my blue was wild beyond believe, and if you go to the color decoding patterns, the colors were good, however after my first run the graphs were not that bad overall, but not linear and the colors were not behaving the right way. One thing that I notice is that I ran out of blue adjustment on TINT and COLOR. Now after putting everything back to default, even color and tint for all resolutions, then gryscale and color became manageable and moved the way they suppose to.

My point, if you moved anything ecessibly to one side or the other, as we all know affects interactivebly with everything else, I would put TINT and COLOR to default too before messing with the post.

I guess what we are saying, eliminate every possible alternative before touching the pots.

I reset my HIGH to 6500. Redid grayscale at STD. Didn't seem to make a difference one way or the other (ie, I didn't see any advantage to leaving HIGH at 10000 or changing it).
However, changing a setting at HIGH definitely affects that setting in MED and STD (though they are independent of each other).
I guess rather than play with the trimpots you could change the HIGH DRV's; haven't tried that myself, but will keep it in mind next time I feel like "playing."


I simply set STD to D6500K. You don't need to mess with the HIGH, and you don't need anything other than D6500K anyway. This allows everything else to stay as it was.


Mr Bob

I simply set STD to D6500K. You don't need to mess with the HIGH, and you don't need anything other than D6500K anyway. This allows everything else to stay as it was.


Mr Bob

If he's going to mess with the trimpots anyway, it's all going to change and need to be reset. If reducing the green drive in HIGH actually helps, then the trimpots can stay where they are (though everything is STILL going to change and need to be reset). The drives are a whole lot easier to adjust in small increments than the pots.
I don't KNOW if this will work, I'm just thinking it may be worth trying since green's messed up anyway (and Lee loves being a guinea pig).

If he's going to mess with the trimpots anyway, it's all going to change and need to be reset. If reducing the green drive in HIGH actually helps, then the trimpots can stay where they are (though everything is STILL going to change and need to be reset). The drives are a whole lot easier to adjust in small increments than the pots.
I don't KNOW if this will work, I'm just thinking it may be worth trying since green's messed up anyway (and Lee loves being a guinea pig).

The Screen trimpots only affect the darks, and everything follows from that. The drives affect the colors in the high light level ranges. Cuts and drives are interactive, yes, but not so much as to come into play here. Changing the trimpots will do relatively little to the relative levels of the drives and if anything, ONLY by way of the drives' interactivity with their own color's cuts and not directly.

Virtually nothing directly happens to the high light levels from altering the trimpots, they are for biasing of the darks ONLY. Drives have to be set up AFTER the screen trimpots have been set correctly; you can't alter the drives and expect the darks to be correctly affected.


Mr Bob

Man..I would love to jump in here but you guys are operating ahead of my payscale. I am definetly making my case for an EyeOne for Christmas though.

Man..I would love to jump in here but you guys are operating ahead of my payscale. I am definetly making my case for an EyeOne for Christmas though.

Pro stuff does take the guessing out of it. EyeOne & Colorfacts, this tuning went easy just using 80IRE and 35IRE no others. See how nice
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hitachi.jpg

Pro stuff does take the guessing out of it. EyeOne & Colorfacts, this tuning went easy just using 80IRE and 35IRE no others. See how nice
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hitachi.jpg

For what Colorfacts costs, I could fly Mr. Bob out to NJ and have him do it. You may want to look through Kal's guide anyway. It's really interesting and will give you an idea of what your software did (in English).
I've asked Lee about CalMan (which Kal favors), but it's hard for me to rationalize even that $200. Happy with what I have, though, no doubt, I will be messing around with it again sometime soon.
Sorry you missed the Amazon sale, Mustang. Hopefully, there will be another (Black Friday, perhaps?).

I did not even spend the $120 for the Eye-one, but $60 for a Spyder2. I know is not as reliable, but I'm very happy with the combination of the Spider and HCFR.

Many thanks to Kal for the very easy read on the guide for ME (Dummies).

The model I'm using is actually called a Gregtag Macbeth Eye one Beamer. A little bit more than the $120 one. :)

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?Redir=1&description=Gretag+Macbeth%2DEye%2DOne+Beamer%2DMonitor+%26+ Projector+Accessories&dpno=247610&store=macmall&source=mwbfroogle

The model I'm using is actually called a Gregtag Macbeth Eye one Beamer. A little bit more than the $120 one. :)

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?Redir=1&description=Gretag+Macbeth%2DEye%2DOne+Beamer%2DMonitor+%26+ Projector+Accessories&dpno=247610&store=macmall&source=mwbfroogle

Holly COW!!! can I borrow it for a couple of days... I'll give you mine in the mean time so you wont feel any withdrawals.

I hope the saying applies, "you get what you pay for". WOW :)

Yeah I went a little overboard on the cal equipment but I did buy from other members at half the $4,000 price. The product comes in handy as I do reviews for the Optoma projector company and sometimes they let me keep the demo's. :)

Yeah I went a little overboard on the cal equipment but I did buy from other members at half the $4,000 price. The product comes in handy as I do reviews for the Optoma projector company and sometimes they let me keep the demo's. :)

When ever you start accumulating too many demos and you might want to get rid of some ... let me know.

I'm finishing a little project on setting an older projector, Epson Powerlite Cinema 200+, and I'm very impressed even with that one, I'm finishing the calibration and the amount of control that you have with this one is incredible. I'll post a link when I post my finished little project.

One more thing, is the link from the calibration you posted from a Hitachi RPCRT?

Hey guys -

Hate to jump in on this off-topic, but I have been searching for tips on replacing the screen on my 57f59a for the last 30 minutes and have come up short. I hope I don't offend anyone by asking a repeated question in the middle this thread. I see that in other threads, people are directed here with their questions, so here goes.

Typical story, my kids cracked the screen. There seems to be two "layers", the front one and one behind, they have cracked both.

Three questions:

1- Would a replacement cover two layers?
2- Anyone know a spot online to order screens or that at least lists part numbers?
3- Anyone walk through replacing the screen and post a "how to" online or have a schematic.

I am pretty handy with electronics and such...I am willing to try and replace myself vs have pay $250 for somebody to do it for me.

Thanks!!!

Tom

1- Would a replacement cover two layers?
2- Anyone know a spot online to order screens or that at least lists part numbers?
3- Anyone walk through replacing the screen and post a "how to" online or have a schematic.

I am pretty handy with electronics and such...I am willing to try and replace myself vs have pay $250 for somebody to do it for me.

Thanks!!!

Tom

Part number is UX26082. Looks like Vance Baldwin has it, Union Electronics does not.
http://www.vancebaldwin.com/
Might want to call Hitachi for a ref, too.
Screens alone will be about $250. If you sell two kids, you'll probably break even. :D
Instructions are in the service manual, downloadable from vancebaldwin.com.
You may also want to email Mr. Bob about alternatives - there are better screens that he may be able to get you.
Good luck.

(now you know why people sent you here!)

Part number is UX26082. Looks like Vance Baldwin has it, Union Electronics does not.
http://www.vancebaldwin.com/
Might want to call Hitachi for a ref, too.
Screens alone will be about $250. If you sell two kids, you'll probably break even. :D
Instructions are in the service manual, downloadable from vancebaldwin.com.
You may also want to email Mr. Bob about alternatives - there are better screens that he may be able to get you.
Good luck.

(now you know why people sent you here!)

I can get high gain Mits screens for anybody's set, but not at the prices quoted here. If you're price conscious, the price quoted here for the double layer optical sandwich is unbeatable, and often you get the third layer, the clear acrylic glarescreen, as part of the same package. Which would be good protection when you have kids you can expect this kind of behavior from, tho nothing is going to stop them from breaking things if that's their intention.

Unless of course it was a bona fide accident. We just usually don't see BOTH layers broken when it's a bona fide accident, but I could be wrong, I wasn't there...

You can pay that price for just one screen, on some of these brands.


Mr Bob

Which would be good protection when you have kids you can expect this kind of behavior from, tho nothing is going to stop them from breaking things if that's their intention.

Unless of course it was a bona fide accident. We just usually don't see BOTH layers broken when it's a bona fide accident, but I could be wrong, I wasn't there...


I'm trying to get them sold. You may end up getting them killed.
:eek:

Mr. bob,

What benefit would be gained by using the High gain Mit screen over the stock Hitachi?

Mr. bob,

What benefit would be gained by using the High gain Mit screen over the stock Hitachi?

Enhanced light levels, tho I can't quantify that. The Hits may be the same gain, it just LOOKS like more on the Mit's than usual, to me.

We'd have to see them performing side by side as apples and apples to know for sure.


Mr Bob

Thanks guys.

It was an accident, my 5 year old was getting fancy with his new Darth Vader expandable light saber. He swung it and the "saber" end came off and flew into the TV. Three days ago, all kids were "I don't know", finally today he came to me crying as he overheard my wife and I talking about it costing a lot of money to fix. He got a hug for telling the truth and some "chores" to do to "pay for the screen". Brady bunch moment!

I will check it out. I originally bought the 57f59a to avoid that shiny screen, but this is actually the second screen breakage. The first was only the first layer and didn't quantify enough of a headache for the $250. Now I am going to put that screen on if I can get it.

Thanks again!!!

Tom

I will check it out. I originally bought the 57f59a to avoid that shiny screen, but this is actually the second screen breakage. The first was only the first layer and didn't quantify enough of a headache for the $250. Now I am going to put that screen on if I can get it.

Thanks again!!!

Tom

This was posted 2 pages back (knew I had seen it somewhere):

I posted this in another thread, and wanted to post it here since this is the main Hitachi thread.

If you are unfortunate enough (like me) to break your (51f59) screen, Sears Parts Direct have replacement assemblies in stock, and the shipping is cheap.

I replaced mine last week and couldn't be happier(except for tweaking)

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part...%20Part%20List

They have other parts as well! Including the 57 & 65!
Last edited by Jon-C; 09-22-08 at 01:43 PM.

This was posted 2 pages back (knew I had seen it somewhere):

I posted this in another thread, and wanted to post it here since this is the main Hitachi thread.

If you are unfortunate enough (like me) to break your (51f59) screen, Sears Parts Direct have replacement assemblies in stock, and the shipping is cheap.

I replaced mine last week and couldn't be happier(except for tweaking)

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part...%20Part%20List

They have other parts as well! Including the 57 & 65!
Last edited by Jon-C; 09-22-08 at 01:43 PM.

I would go with that. Can't be more than speculative on whether the Mit screens are actually higher gain than the Hitachis. They are high gain of course, but the Hits look pretty bright too.

I know the screens for other brands can be head and shoulders more expensive than this, and they are not brighter, nor do they have wider viewing angle characteristics, at least from casual observation on my end.

I would go with Michael's recommendation on this. Hopefully it will contain the third/protective layer as well, in the sandwich you will receive, and that next time he won't be swinging that sword quite so hard...

Go Bradys!

:D

Mr Bob

I believe the spec list on F59s for sale over @ uecweb.com (as well as the official Hitachi sheets) mention them featuring "high gain screens".

Doesn't end the speculation, but there you go...

I believe the spec list on F59s for sale over @ uecweb.com (as well as the official Hitachi sheets) mention them featuring "high gain screens".

Doesn't end the speculation, but there you go...

Sounds good. Maybe both of them get theirs from the same supplier -

I can say from personal experience that my 51F59A is damn bright, even with "proper" contrast/brightness/service menu tweak settings to avoid torch mode.

On a sunny day w/ windows open, you can still see the image pretty nicely.

So, yeah....I assume the F59 screens are pretty high gain screens.

I can say from personal experience that my 51F59A is damn bright, even with "proper" contrast/brightness/service menu tweak settings to avoid torch mode.

On a sunny day w/ windows open, you can still see the image pretty nicely.

So, yeah....I assume the F59 screens are pretty high gain screens.

Mine is pretty bright as well, which surprised me when I bought it as that was a knock against RP CRT. I also have good viewing from a wide angle, much better than expected.

Mine is pretty bright as well, which surprised me when I bought it as that was a knock against RP CRT. I also have good viewing from a wide angle, much better than expected.

It is surprising how well you can see the F59 image when sitting off to the sides a bit. Still rather bright.

Head on view is still best, of course. But at least when several peple are over, those off to the sides of the screen don't get a too dim to see picture at all.

Well, I was able to adjust the VR pots and recalibrate grayscale with no issues. Just turned up blue until the line was visible. Also did the same for Green and Red, since they were actually turned up way too high, since the manual states that the retrace should just be visible.

Also, as was asked back a few posts, I do use CALMAN, with a Chroma C5 colorimeter. I've been using CALMAN back when it was just an excel spreadsheet, and you had to manually enter the numbers! The latest version I use is the Pro version of CALMAN. Lots of flexibility.

Well, I was able to adjust the VR pots and recalibrate grayscale with no issues. Just turned up blue until the line was visible. Also did the same for Green and Red, since they were actually turned up way too high, since the manual states that the retrace should just be visible.

Also, as was asked back a few posts, I do use CALMAN, with a Chroma C5 colorimeter. I've been using CALMAN back when it was just an excel spreadsheet, and you had to manually enter the numbers! The latest version I use is the Pro version of CALMAN. Lots of flexibility.

Great news Lee! let us see your new recalibrated screen...

When ever you start accumulating too many demos and you might want to get rid of some ... let me know.

I'm finishing a little project on setting an older projector, Epson Powerlite Cinema 200+, and I'm very impressed even with that one, I'm finishing the calibration and the amount of control that you have with this one is incredible. I'll post a link when I post my finished little project.

One more thing, is the link from the calibration you posted from a Hitachi RPCRT?

Yes that's my Hitachi with the Samsung BD5000, came out perfect all the way.

Mine is pretty bright as well, which surprised me when I bought it as that was a knock against RP CRT. I also have good viewing from a wide angle, much better than expected.


The Hitachi has the brightest peak white level I've ever seen on a CRT/RPTV and tuned down. It's at least 3 times more bright than my last Toshiba 57HX83.

I am a little confused with some of the recent post. Maybe because I dont have my colormeter yet. I think it was Lee or maybe someone else who said that the meter showed the colors way off, especially blue. Thats even when the decoder was right on. I have always kept as holy the fact that the Hit RGBOUT service menu setting allowed us to reach true linear color decoding. I'm getting the impression that they may not be true or was that just an unique situation that occured.

The Hitachi has the brightest peak white level I've ever seen on a CRT/RPTV and tuned down. It's at least 3 times more bright than my last Toshiba 57HX83.

I run contrast at 30 and brightness at about 50 and even then the screen is bright.

It is surprising how well you can see the F59 image when sitting off to the sides a bit. Still rather bright.

Head on view is still best, of course. But at least when several peple are over, those off to the sides of the screen don't get a too dim to see picture at all.

Be sure if your couch sits rather low to the ground that you tilt your display down a bit, so the sweet spot is hitting you correctly.

In many displays the sweet spot shoots straight over your head! You can see that by lifting yourself up and down from your regular sitting position and seeing if the brightness increases with your eyes a foot higher off the couch than normal. Best done on a high light level freeze frame.

For my Mit 73" CRT, a 2x4 placed flat under the rear edge of the set works just right. Each display has to be played with independently, of course -

If you live in earthquake country like I do, don't worry. A CRT RPTV is totally bottom-heavy. Unlike directviews, which are front-heavy.


Mr Bob

I am a little confused with some of the recent post. Maybe because I dont have my colormeter yet. I think it was Lee or maybe someone else who said that the meter showed the colors way off, especially blue. Thats even when the decoder was right on. I have always kept as holy the fact that the Hit RGBOUT service menu setting allowed us to reach true linear color decoding. I'm getting the impression that they may not be true or was that just an unique situation that occured.

Don't know if this specific case was I or not, but that is exactly what I had.

Using the color patterns and doing the color decoding through color isolation in SM (thanks to Michael) my colors were pretty close. Once I used the Spyder2 to measure, and after calibration blue was WILD and all over the place. I opted to put everything back to default (as per Michael's suggestion) and calibrate from scratch.

Going back to the color patterns, they looked closet to matching before, however, I thing the overall picture, color and detail of the set is better now.

Also, after many hours of tweaking, changing, cleaning etc..., bottom line, the instrument can tell you one thing but your perception and taste is should get the final say.

Don't know if this specific case was I or not, but that is exactly what I had.

Using the color patterns and doing the color decoding through color isolation in SM (thanks to Michael) my colors were pretty close. Once I used the Spyder2 to measure, and after calibration blue was WILD and all over the place. I opted to put everything back to default (as per Michael's suggestion) and calibrate from scratch.

Going back to the color patterns, they looked closet to matching before, however, I thing the overall picture, color and detail of the set is better now.

Also, after many hours of tweaking, changing, cleaning etc..., bottom line, the instrument can tell you one thing but your perception and taste is should get the final say.

If your analyzer told you everything was right, but afterwards the blue was all over the place, then I think something's wrong with your analyzer.

Or your methods. Grayscale has a HUGE learning curve. Can't do it in the daytime. Can't use 100IRE white for CRT, can do no more than 80IRE. Light level MUST be relatively low, or you get all sorts of off-whites, like salmon-colored. The pure blacks require almost dead blackness in the viewing room, to get right.

I could go on and on. Experienced calibrators can make displays look awesome with or without analyzer equipment - all they need is a valid D6500K reference, and do optical comparation. And they have done so many of them that they can tell at a glance whether one is dreadfully off or not. I have pegged 2 color analyzers out there so far which were so far out of correct alignment that upon my walking in the front door, their resultant pictures looked absolutely sour, even just at a glance. Both were eventually sent back to their manufacturers for recalibration at the factory. Color analyzers CAN be miscalibrated out of the starting gate.

Here's a shortcut that at least gets you close -


If your grays don't look like the color of a cloudy overcast sky, the grayscale is probably off. If your whites turn a garish blue-white at the highest of light levels, your blue drive is probably thru the roof, as is the case with factory settings on many brands out there. If your blacks are not crystal clear black, but have greenishness to them, or reddishness or bluishness, then the lower IREs are not right.

If your blacks are crystal clear black but your low-end grays are magenta, you get your choice but can't have it both ways, because that means the green's gamma curve is different from that of the red and blue. VERY prevalent in the pre-HD days of the Mit RPTVs, and TOTALLY uncorrectable on them.

Governing the appropriate compromises that have to be decided upon in consumer displays is one of a calibrator's chief duties. Not many consumer displays will track the grayscale even close to perfectly, whereas you CAN get so close to perfect it doesn't matter anymore, from the professional/much more expensive ones.

And that's not even touching color decoding, which is an entirely separate animal. You can't align color decoding with grayscale registers. Gr and col deco are somewhat interactive with each other, but their registers can't be used for aligning each other. Flipping back and forth between them till both are correct is what you have to do there, if you do find them interactive with each other, as one will be affected hugely while the other is only affected marginally, in that case, and that may flip back and forth as you go along.

When fully aligned, both grayscale and color decoding will be correct and will test good like they should.

In a perfect display...


Hope that helps some -

:o


Mr Bob

Don't know if this specific case was I or not, but that is exactly what I had.

Using the color patterns and doing the color decoding through color isolation in SM (thanks to Michael) my colors were pretty close. Once I used the Spyder2 to measure, and after calibration blue was WILD and all over the place. I opted to put everything back to default (as per Michael's suggestion) and calibrate from scratch.

Going back to the color patterns, they looked closet to matching before, however, I thing the overall picture, color and detail of the set is better now.

Also, after many hours of tweaking, changing, cleaning etc..., bottom line, the instrument can tell you one thing but your perception and taste is should get the final say.

HMMMMMMMM.....I have found, as has been mentioned here before, that blue does seem to run out of adjustment. It seems like you can almost get it perfect but the last bit is beyond the register. I have never, never been able to get two of the green boxes perfect. Whereas blue and red may not be detected by anyone other than myself and people who are in the know, green is obvious.
I have used consults by Mr. Bob and I think my grayscale is very close. It would be very interesting though to hook up a good meter and see where I'm at on that. Unlike Mr. Bob I can't eyeball it and be close to right on. That takes years of experience that I dont have.
Has anyone been able to adjust green to where the Decoder is right on? Or is this a problem color?

HMMMMMMMM.....I have found, as has been mentioned here before, that blue does seem to run out of adjustment. It seems like you can almost get it perfect but the last bit is beyond the register. I have never, never been able to get two of the green boxes perfect. Whereas blue and red may not be detected by anyone other than myself and people who are in the know, green is obvious.
I have used consults by Mr. Bob and I think my grayscale is very close. It would be very interesting though to hook up a good meter and see where I'm at on that. Unlike Mr. Bob I can't eyeball it and be close to right on. That takes years of experience that I dont have.
Has anyone been able to adjust green to where the Decoder is right on? Or is this a problem color?

The green is primarily troublesome on filters. I have dialed it in correctly on complete color iso. This is using RGBout on Hit's and using the conv sm iso's, on Mit's with sm decoder registers.

On my Panny it got very close but not spot on, on all colors. There's only a limited amount of playing around you can do on the Panny's, whereas the Hit's can be done completely. Using color iso, I have had no problems with green any more than with any of the other colors.

But with filters, like with lots of the new fixed pixel displays that have no color iso registers, green is always off. It's always off as well from color iso, in iso equipped machines where I can directly compare the filter results with the iso results.



Mr Bob

I think I didn't make myself clear regarding the color decoding.

Before being able to measure with a colormeter (Spyder2), and adjusting colors (color decoding) while using AVIA patterns, the colors on my set looked close to be spot on. then after calibrating (grayscale... and I know Bob's next replay... grayscale is not color calibration or likewise, color calibration is not grayscale) and using the readings to bring colors based on the instrument go where they are supposed to be, I had to changed the previous color decoding and start all over again.

I guess we also have to consider how correct are the readings and how sensitive is the instrument... if you can use something like guitarman's ...

All I can say is that my blacks look magazine silky black, gray look gray with no tint of green or red and whites look withe with no tint of blue (at least to my worn out eyes).

Nevertheless, if what you are looking for is to get your set looking better, using many of the tweaks will help not only for the set to look better but to last longer too.

I think I didn't make myself clear regarding the color decoding.

Before being able to measure with a colormeter (Spyder2), and adjusting colors (color decoding) while using AVIA patterns, the colors on my set looked close to be spot on. then after calibrating (grayscale... and I know Bob's next replay... grayscale is not color calibration or likewise, color calibration is not grayscale) and using the readings to bring colors based on the instrument go where they are supposed to be, I had to changed the previous color decoding and start all over again.

I guess we also have to consider how correct are the readings and how sensitive is the instrument... if you can use something like guitarman's ...

All I can say is that my blacks look magazine silky black, gray look gray with no tint of green or red and whites look withe with no tint of blue (at least to my worn out eyes).

Nevertheless, if what you are looking for is to get your set looking better, using many of the tweaks will help not only for the set to look better but to last longer too.

Sounds like you've got it looking righteous!

;)

Mr Bob

Sounds like you've got it looking righteous!

;)

Mr Bob

And I'm sure that with your expertise I could even squeeze a little more out of it. Thank you for your opinion is well valued and regarded.

And I'm sure that with your expertise I could even squeeze a little more out of it. Thank you for your opinion is well valued and regarded.

:)

Michael and Lee,

Can you post some recent screeshots of your sets. I want to see where I'm at. What ever you have. I'm more interested in the PQ. I'm very close on tweaks and mods as you guys are. THis would be a nice reference for me. Thanks~!

some of the latest Michel's screenshots

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14814847#post14814847

There are some of Lee's too before he re did his set.

And some of Bob's and others too.

some of the latest Michel's screenshots

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14814847#post14814847

There are some of Lee's too before he re did his set.

And some of Bob's and others too.

And, hopefully soon, some of yours. Please join us over there.
As with most things, there's a learning curve, but it'll be easier with the help you'll get there.

The manual says this TV is not intended for use with PCs. Should I not use my PC with this TV?

I would have the taskbar on for several hours at a time and also watch charts for an hour or two a day.

I always have the Contrast at 25 or lower and Brightness under 60. I wouldn't mind turning it lower if it will prevent burn-in when using it as a PC monitor. Also, would getting it ISF calibrated prevent burn-in when using it as a PC monitor?

The manual says this TV is not intended for use with PCs. Should I not use my PC with this TV?

I would have the taskbar on for several hours at a time and also watch charts for an hour or two a day.

I always have the Contrast at 25 or lower and Brightness under 60. I wouldn't mind turning it lower if it will prevent burn-in when using it as a PC monitor. Also, would getting it ISF calibrated prevent burn-in when using it as a PC monitor?

I have tried hooking my PC up to the 51f59 and it does not scale the resolutions correctly no matter what I try. I am using an Nvidia 8800GT video card. The start menu is off the bottom of the screen no matter what resolution I pick. I used a DVI to HDMI conversion cable to connect the PC to the TV, so it is a digital to digital signal. I may be doing something glaringly wrong, but it just does not seem like the TV is capable of supporting the PC.

The manual says this TV is not intended for use with PCs. Should I not use my PC with this TV?

I would have the taskbar on for several hours at a time and also watch charts for an hour or two a day.

I always have the Contrast at 25 or lower and Brightness under 60. I wouldn't mind turning it lower if it will prevent burn-in when using it as a PC monitor. Also, would getting it ISF calibrated prevent burn-in when using it as a PC monitor?


I personally calibrated a Hitachi CRT RPTV HDready for a guy in LA, who is a gamer and also uses his set as his PC monitor. It had no problem at all being used that way, once the focusing and convergence had been tightened up to the max. He didn't need any o'scan redux because he could control his H and W in his computer, but of course shimming his CRT array forward towards the screen a couple of inches would have granted him even tighter resolution, once the corrections had been done.

Even doing the o'scan redux in the sm only, gives you higher resolution once stitched back together again with high precision convergence.

I think they are saying not to use them that way because they know most OOB CRT RPTVs are usually not really well set up on geometry and convergence, and drift off even further during the first 100 hours of use.

With computers, you need to see all the way out to the edges for the icons and such, the exact opposite of how we use them for watching video, where the edges rarely come in to play. As such, the edges need special attention.

It CAN be done, I have done it to the owner's complete satisfaction. Many DIYers out there have, as well.


Mr Bob

I personally calibrated a Hitachi CRT RPTV HDready for a guy in LA, who is a gamer and also uses his set as his PC monitor. It had no problem at all being used that way, once the focusing and convergence had been tightened up to the max. He didn't need any o'scan redux because he could control his H and W in his computer, but of course shimming his CRT array forward towards the screen a couple of inches would have granted him even tighter resolution, once the corrections had been done.

Even doing the o'scan redux in the sm only, gives you higher resolution once stitched back together again with high precision convergence.

I think they are saying not to use them that way because they know most OOB CRT RPTVs are usually not really well set up on geometry and convergence, and drift off even further during the first 100 hours of use.

With computers, you need to see all the way out to the edges for the icons and such, the exact opposite of how we use them for watching video, where the edges rarely come in to play. As such, the edges need special attention.

It CAN be done, I have done it to the owner's complete satisfaction. Many DIYers out there have, as well.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the reply, but what about burn-in with the taskbar or watching a chart for an hour or two a day? Is low contrast and brightness alone enough to prevent the burn-in when doing this? What would be the chances of burn-in when using it this way with only low brightness and contrast and what would be the chances of burn-in after getting it calibrated? Also, when you say you get higher resolution, how high can you expect to get?

Thanks for the reply, but what about burn-in with the taskbar or watching a chart for an hour or two a day? Is low contrast and brightness alone enough to prevent the burn-in when doing this? What would be the chances of burn-in when using it this way with only low brightness and contrast and what would be the chances of burn-in after getting it calibrated? Also, when you say you get higher resolution, how high can you expect to get?


I don't quantify resolution, so can't answer you that.


Screenburn is defined as uneven phosphor aging. Medium light level fixed images will probably not cause any damage to your CRT faces.

HIGH or LOW/blank light level fixed images, tho, will grind away at your phosphors in those areas, or leave them totally UNexercised in those areas. Either way, you'll eventually wind up having uneven phosphor aging on your CRT faces. With colors involved, different guns will be involved. With strong white or absolute black, all 3 guns will ALWAYS be involved.

If you plan to have fixed images up there for extended periods, and those areas are strong white or absolute black, you better be running your contrast so it's just a dull glow, so you can just make it out. Dish Network is one of the foremost offenders where screenburn is concerned. Any time you put up the Guide, that stylized "dish" logo in the upper left hand corner appears, in full white. I have seen that emblem ground into phosphor faces on the other side of the country, on calibration tours.

ISF calibration does nothing to help screenburn, except recommend that for regular video viewing, the contrast should be at half or below. For strong black or white fixed images, my advice is to make it half of half, if at all.

Screenburn control is COMPLETELY in the domain of the owner. I have contacted Dish several times, all to no avail. I now turn my contrast to zero every time I go into their guide for any reason at all, and the Brightness to half if I intend to stay in there for over 30 seconds.


Mr Bob

I don't quantify resolution, so can't answer you that.


Screenburn is defined as uneven phosphor aging. Medium light level fixed images will probably not cause any damage to your CRT faces.

HIGH or LOW/blank light level fixed images, tho, will grind away at your phosphors in those areas, or leave them totally UNexercised in those areas. Either way, you'll eventually wind up having uneven phosphor aging on your CRT faces. With colors involved, different guns will be involved. With strong white or absolute black, all 3 guns will ALWAYS be involved.

If you plan to have fixed images up there for extended periods, and those areas are strong white or absolute black, you better be running your contrast so it's just a dull glow, so you can just make it out. Dish Network is one of the foremost offenders where screenburn is concerned. Any time you put up the Guide, that stylized "dish" logo in the upper left hand corner appears, in full white. I have seen that emblem ground into phosphor faces on the other side of the country, on calibration tours.

ISF calibration does nothing to help screenburn, except recommend that for regular video viewing, the contrast should be at half or below. For strong black or white fixed images, my advice is to make it half of half, if at all.

Screenburn control is COMPLETELY in the domain of the owner. I have contacted Dish several times, all to no avail. I now turn my contrast to zero every time I go into their guide for any reason at all, and the Brightness to half if I intend to stay in there for over 30 seconds.


Mr Bob

So I would need to have zero contrast to be safe when watching a chart that has a black background? I guess I shouldn't use it as my main PC monitor, then.

So I would need to have zero contrast to be safe when watching a chart that has a black background? I guess I shouldn't use it as my main PC monitor, then.

What you are describing there doesn't give me nearly enough info to answer your question. Will you be having this chart up there interminably, or just for a few minutes at a time?

If white words will be going across this chart all the time in different areas, I don't see any problem. Are there going to be any strong transitions, between black and white areas?

Also, I have told you what I do with a Mit. It may be different with a Hit.


Mr Bob

What you are describing there doesn't give me nearly enough info to answer your question. Will you be having this chart up there interminably, or just for a few minutes at a time?

If white words will be going across this chart all the time in different areas, I don't see any problem. Are there going to be any strong transitions, between black and white areas?

Also, I have told you what I do with a Mit. It may be different with a Hit.


Mr Bob

I'd have it up for about 30 - 60 minutes at a time. I might minimize it for a few seconds occasionally. There are not white words going across the chart and there are some areas of it that remain pure black with no changes.

I'd have it up for about 30 - 60 minutes at a time. I might minimize it for a few seconds occasionally. There are not white words going across the chart and there are some areas of it that remain pure black with no changes.

Vast expanses of pure black are not a problem. Areas with fixed strong transitions between strong white and strong black are the trouble areas. If your chart has none of that, but only vast areas of all black with other stuff in it that moves around, that's no problem at all. An all black screen is no problem at all, sometimes I run my set on a blank input just to have the screen stay black for as long as it takes, until it's time for me to be watching it again. If it had graphics IDing the input that were fixed, I'd worry. But those fade away after 5-10 seconds and the screen goes completely black for the rest of the time, so I don't worry about how long my screen stays black. I could run it forever and it would not be damaged, because none of the phosphors would be being lit up.

Remember, uneven phosphor aging is the issue here. Does your situation present you with that issue?


Mr Bob

hey guys, it's been a while. my friend recently inherited a hitachi 57gwx20b from her brother in law and it looks kinda horrible. being a hitachi i know this is becuase it is at OOB settings. can anyone link me to tweaks and service menu access for the set? it's hurting my eyes. the white balance and decoder are WAAY off.

Vast expanses of pure black are not a problem. Areas with fixed strong transitions between strong white and strong black are the trouble areas. If your chart has none of that, but only vast areas of all black with other stuff in it that moves around, that's no problem at all. An all black screen is no problem at all, sometimes I run my set on a blank input just to have the screen stay black for as long as it takes, until it's time for me to be watching it again. If it had graphics IDing the input that were fixed, I'd worry. But those fade away after 5-10 seconds and the screen goes completely black for the rest of the time, so I don't worry about how long my screen stays black. I could run it forever and it would not be damaged, because none of the phosphors would be being lit up.

Remember, uneven phosphor aging is the issue here. Does your situation present you with that issue?


Mr Bob

Here is an example of the chart I'm talking about:

http://i38.tinypic.com/nv4ish.png

The white numbers on the right can stay in the same position for a long time, and the white horizontal and vertical lines and white words are always in the same position. The colors at the bottom change between the four different colors. What about the blue bar across the top of it or the gray bar with the icons beneath it?

I have tried hooking my PC up to the 51f59 and it does not scale the resolutions correctly no matter what I try. I am using an Nvidia 8800GT video card. The start menu is off the bottom of the screen no matter what resolution I pick. I used a DVI to HDMI conversion cable to connect the PC to the TV, so it is a digital to digital signal. I may be doing something glaringly wrong, but it just does not seem like the TV is capable of supporting the PC.

FWIW, it works fine with a Mac. I've hooked mine up with a DVI to HDMI cable and it worked fine. I don't leave it that way, but I tried it just to see if it would work (which comes as no surprise to anyone who knows me).
You just have to make sure you don't leave a static image on the screen for hours at a time.
Good luck. Perhaps someone with your card can give you specifics.

Hi guys. I have been following this thread since its inception and have learned a great deal from all of you. My Hitachi was a thing of beauty, but now I have a similar problem to one that has been mentioned recently.

I now have a brown/green tint to the low light areas. I first noticed it after returning from vacation this summer and it has continued to get worse. I read Lee's recent posts and hoped that was my issue, but that did not seem to help. Maybe I am just not doing it right......

Today when checking convergence, I noticed I have lost horizontal Blue, while vertical Blue shows up fine. If any of you have any tips, it would be greatly appreciated.

Never mind. I was adjusting the focus pot instead of the screen.

hey guys, it's been a while. my friend recently inherited a hitachi 57gwx20b from her brother in law and it looks kinda horrible. being a hitachi i know this is becuase it is at OOB settings. can anyone link me to tweaks and service menu access for the set? it's hurting my eyes. the white balance and decoder are WAAY off.

On white balance, each set's settings will be different, starting with the Screen settings of the focus block, which usually don't need any attention on Hitachis, but which can be set very differently from set to set, requiring that the cutoff settings be different from set to set. Since drives are interactive with cutoffs, that means the drives are also affected. It's a giant hanging mobile, where if you tug on just one part of it, the whole thing jangles around.

Check to see that the b/w grayscale patterns or video material is the color of an overcast cloudy day. Other than that simple test, you'll need reference comparation equipment at the very least, plus mastering a HUGE learning curve, if you don't want to call in an ISF qualified calibrator.

Decoding requires the right kind of test patterns and skills/practices, which are readily available via HD DVE if you have either HD DVD or BluRay, and how to do it is also readily available on at least 1 of the at least 4 Hitachi threads here in this section.

Michael has done the most comprehensive description of how to do the color decoding that I have seen around here.

;)

Good luck and happy tweaking!


Mr Bob

Here is an example of the chart I'm talking about:

http://i38.tinypic.com/nv4ish.png

The white numbers on the right can stay in the same position for a long time, and the white horizontal and vertical lines and white words are always in the same position. The colors at the bottom change between the four different colors. What about the blue bar across the top of it or the gray bar with the icons beneath it?

Since color fidelity and dynamic punch is really not an issue here like it would be with video, as long as you keep your contrast at 1/3 or below and goose your brightness up to compensate - IOW as low in light level as you can stand it on, and still have it be useful to you up there - there should be no problem with screenburn on this kind of pattern. Just don't run it with lots of punch and light level and you should be fine. Even if you use it for a presentation and need to punch it up for 45 minutes or so, doing that once in awhile will not damage anything either.

If you were doing this pattern with lots of dynamic punch every day for professional presentations, 10 hours a day, then there would be a problem.

But for just your own personal use, where it's just there for indicative purposes, having it just punchy enough for you to see what's going on and no higher than that will work fine, and you'll be OK.

Just don't get greedy and punch it up and leave it up there at high dynamic light levels in the non-black areas for extended periods, just because it's so pretty. THAT could cause problems.

;)

Mr Bob

Just don't get greedy and punch it up and leave it up there at high dynamic light levels in the non-black areas for extended periods, just because it's so pretty. THAT could cause problems.

;)

Mr Bob

Pretty, hell; that's the dollar falling vs. the euro. Notice all the red?!
:(

Decoding requires the right kind of test patterns and skills/practices, which are readily available via HD DVE if you have either HD DVD or BluRay, and how to do it is also readily available on at least 1 of the at least 4 Hitachi threads here in this section.

Michael has done the most comprehensive description of how to do the color decoding that I have seen around here.

;)

Good luck and happy tweaking!


Mr Bob

Long ago and far away:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12901540&postcount=1391

Hope you can find equivalent settings for your set.

Since color fidelity and dynamic punch is really not an issue here like it would be with video, as long as you keep your contrast at 1/3 or below and goose your brightness up to compensate - IOW as low in light level as you can stand it on, and still have it be useful to you up there - there should be no problem with screenburn on this kind of pattern. Just don't run it with lots of punch and light level and you should be fine. Even if you use it for a presentation and need to punch it up for 45 minutes or so, doing that once in awhile will not damage anything either.

If you were doing this pattern with lots of dynamic punch every day for professional presentations, 10 hours a day, then there would be a problem.

But for just your own personal use, where it's just there for indicative purposes, having it just punchy enough for you to see what's going on and no higher than that will work fine, and you'll be OK.

Just don't get greedy and punch it up and leave it up there at high dynamic light levels in the non-black areas for extended periods, just because it's so pretty. THAT could cause problems.

;)

Mr Bob

Just how low should the contrast be exactly? Under 20% or under 10%? And how high could I raise the brightness to? I'd have this chart up for at least an hour a day. And what about the blue across the top and the gray task bar with all the icons on it? I use my PC a lot for general internet use, multi-tasking, and working, so if I used the TV as the monitor, it'd be viewed much more than anything else on the TV.

Just how low should the contrast be exactly? Under 20% or under 10%? And how high could I raise the brightness to? I'd have this chart up for at least an hour a day. And what about the blue across the top and the gray task bar with all the icons on it? I use my PC a lot for general internet use, multi-tasking, and working, so if I used the TV as the monitor, it'd be viewed much more than anything else on the TV.

Low enough contrast that you can still make things out adequately. High enough brightness to not have super strong transitions between ultra high and ultra low light levels.


Mr Bob

Low enough contrast that you can still make things out adequately. High enough brightness to not have super strong transitions between ultra high and ultra low light levels.


Mr Bob

It's fine with 15% contrast and 55% brightness on Day picture mode. On Night picture mode, I could put it lower, but I'd also be using internet browsers even more throughout the day than I'd use the chart. Would I get burn-in after using internet browsers for several hours everyday?

It's fine with 15% contrast and 55% brightness on Day picture mode. On Night picture mode, I could put it lower, but I'd also be using internet browsers even more throughout the day than I'd use the chart. Would I get burn-in after using internet browsers for several hours everyday?

There is no internal difference between the day and night modes. Think of them as setting one and setting two, set the user settings as you wish, and toggle between them as needed.

It's fine with 15% contrast and 55% brightness on Day picture mode. On Night picture mode, I could put it lower, but I'd also be using internet browsers even more throughout the day than I'd use the chart. Would I get burn-in after using internet browsers for several hours everyday?

See my answer above. You have to make these decisions. I can only coach you in your particular situation, you have to take the principles I mention and apply them to your sys.

To do otherwise would require Nazi experiments on your set! Or somebody else's.

:eek:

Then of course I could tell you for sure. But it ain't gonna happen on MY set...

:p


Mr Bob

this ones for bob or anybody that can help................

which one is the better crt tv on these tvs .last years(darker gray)or the year before(light silverish in color)..looks like that there was more options in the menu on the lightsilverish on than on my dark gray one.....

this ones for bob or anybody that can help................

which one is the better crt tv on these tvs .last years(darker gray)or the year before(light silverish in color)..looks like that there was more options in the menu on the lightsilverish on than on my dark gray one.....

F5/710 Series has more Service Menu options & was the last HITACHI with a 1080p Virtual HD Processor

F5/710 Series has more Service Menu options & was the last HITACHI with a 1080p Virtual HD Processor


Keep in mind, that 1080p was JUST for processing, not for viewing.

And didn't the later models have only virtual ATSC tuning on their built-in HD tuner, using the virtual HD circuit on 480i channel material, whereas the earlier ones had TRUE ATSC tuning for OTA HD, in native 1080i?


Mr Bob

Keep in mind, that 1080p was JUST for processing, not for viewing.

And didn't the later models have only virtual ATSC tuning on their built-in HD tuner, using the virtual HD circuit on 480i channel material, whereas the earlier ones had TRUE ATSC tuning for OTA HD, in native 1080i?


Mr Bob

That is correct also Mr.Bob

I've had my Hitachi 51f59a for almost 2 years and never done any cleaning on the inside and my pic on sd and hd still looks great. How long can you usually go without having do do cleaning for dust and etc. Im a little nervous about doing that.

I've had my Hitachi 51f59a for almost 2 years and never done any cleaning on the inside and my pic on sd and hd still looks great. How long can you usually go without having do do cleaning for dust and etc. Im a little nervous about doing that.


The need for it starts showing up after one year. By the third year the need for it becomes desperate. After that it just gets worse. I have seen 10 year old sets that have never been touched. The before and after improvement on them is absolutely serious!

I'd do it now, if I were you. At 2 years it won't be a night and day difference, but it will be noticeable, and VERY visible in terms of again having crystal clear clarity, power, transparency and depth of field, just like when it was new.

It's like watching your kid grow. You don't see it if he's your kid, he doesn't see it either because it happens day by day - but your visitors ALWAYS see it, don't they -

;)

Mr Bob

thanks Im either going to do it myself or have someone do it. Do you have any idea what it would cost to have someone do it?

thanks Im either going to do it myself or have someone do it. Do you have any idea what it would cost to have someone do it?

You can't just have anyone do it. It isn't taught out there in repair land. There are permanent dangers to doing it wrong, hazards that are irrevocable once they've happened.

I am glad to coach you on how to do it if you want to do it yourself. Otherwise, you're taking the life of your display in your hands if you have any normal repair person touch it, or if you do it yourself on your own possibly excellent - but also completely inexperienced, possibly knowing just enough to be dangerous - responsibility.

Since you asked and I am someone I can answer you - on location I charge $150 for the regular optics cleaning, which is included in the basic calibration package if you should decide to have me calibrate your set - and an additional $150 for the deeper optics cleaning as an extra, if found to be necessary. My ground travel to get to you and back is $85/hr RT. My phone coaching is $85/hr or $42.50/half hour, with a half hour minimum on optics cleaning guidance.


Mr Bob

You can't just have anyone do it. It isn't taught out there in repair land. There are permanent dangers to doing it wrong, hazards that are irrevocable once they've happened.

I am glad to coach you on how to do it if you want to do it yourself. Otherwise, you're taking the life of your display in your hands if you have any normal repair person touch it, or if you do it yourself on your own possibly excellent - but also completely inexperienced, possibly knowing just enough to be dangerous - responsibility.

Since you asked and I am someone I can answer you - on location I charge $150 for the regular optics cleaning, which is included in the basic calibration package if you should decide to have me calibrate your set - and an additional $150 for the deeper optics cleaning as an extra, if found to be necessary. My ground travel to get to you and back is $85/hr RT. My phone coaching is $85/hr or $42.50/half hour, with a half hour minimum on optics cleaning guidance.


Mr Bob

Juat a side note and not any type of coercion on my part. I went with a Mr. Bob phone consult and it made the optics cleaning/including bottom lense and coolant cups a lot quicker,easier and less stressful. A lot of folks have done it themselves so I guess its weighing risk/stress/learning curve.

As to the importance of clean CRT optics - having recently having a kitchen/laundry room install completed, the dust generated over the course of the 10 wks of work (we even had a false wall w/ door put up to close off the kitchen end of the house), my F59 lenses were DUSTY! Fortunately, only the tops & mirror were bad - checked deeper optics - all still pretty clean (but were still given a quick swipe anyway).

Nice & shiny clean now!

BOB and gang.... if you had a chance to by a new.. f710 ...or ...f59......which on would it be.....and why please........to help me in one, or the other

BOB and gang.... if you had a chance to by a new.. f710 ...or ...f59......which on would it be.....and why please........to help me in one, or the other

Not an owner, will defer to the other guys here on this one -

BOB and gang.... if you had a chance to by a new.. f710 ...or ...f59......which on would it be.....and why please........to help me in one, or the other

Go with the F710

If you live in an area with available over-the-air HD programming (I don't), the 710 is the way to go, if not, whichever is cheaper.

Regarding the 710 I believe it has two tuners where as the F59 series has only one... also the 710 has a real HD tuner where as the F59 converts analog to HD; other than that they are the same set.

BOB and gang.... if you had a chance to by a new.. f710 ...or ...f59......which on would it be.....and why please........to help me in one, or the other

And where are you finding either one NEW?!
And why are you stuttering?:)

Regarding the 710 I believe it has two tuners where as the F59 series has only one... also the 710 has a real HD tuner where as the F59 converts analog to HD; other than that they are the same set.

Sort of...

Yes, the 710s have actual HD tuners inside. The F59s tuners, while digital & Feb 09 ready, are actually NOT HD tuners. They receive HD OTA, but said HD OTA is converted to 480i, then re-upscaled via the set's "VirtualHD" scaler to either 540p or 1080i.

That said, if one looks back at the ancient early pages of the Hitachi 57F59A thread, you will find plenty of discussion regarding the F59's lack of HD in the digital tuner. For one, HD OTA still auto-displays in the proper 16x9 aspect on the F59, just like a legit HD signal from cable/sat/Bluray/etc does. The F59's on screen input info will also display the HD resolution that the HD OTA signal is sending in from the air (720p/1080i). Yet many owners were surprised to find that the OTA HD stuff they were watching was in fact NOT the 720p/1080i they assumed they were seeing (and input info told them they were seeing).

OTA "Virtual" HD actually looks very good on the F59s - but it is down-converted/re-upconverted video that is being displayed when using the OTA tuners.

This F59 upscaling w/ VirtualHD also works very well w/ SD DVD. Connect a DVD player via component & set the player to 480i. The F59 takes said 480i DVD video & makes it look VERY good. Only upscaling I have seen on my F59 that was/is better than Virtual HD is the upconverted DVD video over HDMI that I get from a Toshiba HD DVD player. And even then, the Tosh signal is only slightly better to my eyes.

But for "true" high def programming, you need either cable or sat service (and BluRays, HDDVDs and whatnot) or an external HD OTA tuner & antenna.

In terms of most features & the internal "guts" (esp the CRTs themselves), the 2 models are basically the same. Either is a good choice - go w/ the 710 if you plan on watching local digital/HD OTA (only need an antenna). If you use cable/sat for HD, the F59 will be fine (and likely a tad cheaper).

And where are you finding either one NEW?!
And why are you stuttering?

UECWeb get more in stock, maybe? They don't always carry just refurbs.

yes there on site.......uecweb.......it looks to cheap too be true since i bought mine new at cc 1 1/2 yrs ago for 1300ishwith tax

yes there on site.......uecweb.......it looks to cheap too be true since i bought mine new at cc 1 1/2 yrs ago for 1300ishwith tax


UECWeb is of course, Hitachi's "discontinued/refurb" retail wing. Some sick prices, but the choices change almost daily.

Whichever model you choose, I'd do it ASAP.

I connected my PC to my monitor using HDMI. I set contrast to 0% so I should be safe from burn-in right? There is some slight overscan. Pictures and videos always look good, but unless I use a very low resolution, some text appears blurry and I can notice some flickering on the bottom half of some web pages. I think this is caused by the 30 refresh rate? Anything higher than 30 isn't an option on high resolutions. The text is most blurry in the corners of the screen and a couple inches from the top, bottom, and sides. It's more clear towards the middle. For some reason, it is clear across the whole screen when I use the low non-widescreen resolutions. Why is this and is there any way to make the entire screen appear clear at 1920x1080 with a 30 refresh rate?

Is it possible to reset all settings to OOB automatically? I would like to start over on the calibration of the TV I have inherited and do not know the settings that were changed by the original owner. If not....do you have a general settings list I could look at for modification?

Is it possible to reset all settings to OOB automatically? I would like to start over on the calibration of the TV I have inherited and do not know the settings that were changed by the original owner. If not....do you have a general settings list I could look at for modification?

DO NOT use the service menu "reset to factory default" it will house out all the settings, not to factory default, but to something like pre-set up stage.

The way to do it is to get a service manual, it is here in this thread several times, download it, and manually one setting a the time change it to the manual default.

DO NOT use the service menu "reset to factory default" it will house out all the settings, not to factory default, but to something like pre-set up stage.

The way to do it is to get a service manual, it is here in this thread several times, download it, and manually one setting a the time change it to the manual default.

Also, don't change the white balance high settings. It seems that's actually done at the factory, so record what's there now in your new downloaded service manual.
Have fun.

On Tuesday, October 28th, Mr. Bob is coming to Albuquerque to work on my Elite 710 HD RPTV. He will be here at least three days. If you live in the Albuquerque/Santa Fe area and would like him to work on your HD set, perhaps we can share a few of the expenses. Let me know at trudyken@nmia.com.

How often is every one doing convergence? I have slight drift after a week or more. Nothing much just a little. I was wondering because I currently use the user menu conv pattern with the reduced settings so you are not blinded by the lines.

How often is every one doing convergence? I have slight drift after a week or more. Nothing much just a little. I was wondering because I currently use the user menu conv pattern with the reduced settings so you are not blinded by the lines.

My wife will tell you I do it every 10 minutes.:)
My red tends to drift, but once a month is probably as crazy as I get, unless I'm on a screenshot binge, then I'll check it.
If you have a test disc with a pattern of dots, you may want to use that instead of the built-in grid. You will get more accurate results.
Michael

How often is every one doing convergence? I have slight drift after a week or more. Nothing much just a little. I was wondering because I currently use the user menu conv pattern with the reduced settings so you are not blinded by the lines.

I haven't dynamically reconverged my 2 year old Mit in months, aside from doing the static every now and then. Usually it's dead on every time I turn it on, statically.

You gotta wait the requisite 45 minutes before EVER trusting your dynamic convergence when turning it on from dead cold, of course, for your set to hit cruising temp on its conv ICs.


Mr Bob

How often is every one doing convergence? I have slight drift after a week or more. Nothing much just a little. I was wondering because I currently use the user menu conv pattern with the reduced settings so you are not blinded by the lines.

I check it every time no one is around, but usually it requires touchup only when the set is move to clean behind it, otherwise stays spot on.

I check it every time no one is around, but usually it requires touchup only when the set is move to clean behind it, otherwise stays spot on.

I probably need to be waiting the 45 minutes Mr. Bob mentioned. MY impatience gets the best of me.

I probably need to be waiting the 45 minutes Mr. Bob mentioned. MY impatience gets the best of me.

Yeah, after that you can scrutinize it all you want, because it levels off and stays completely coherent for the rest of the time you watch it.

This is a very important thing for a calibrator to know, esp. when he is off on a calibration tour, has spent the entire first day superwteaking, and next day wakes up and turns on the set he tits'd out the day before, and finds that it looks like ****!

:D

I've had that happen, and had to remind myself of these things too! The high precision part of a calibration of the convergence has to happen AFTER the set is completely warmed up.


Mr Bob

Yeah, after that you can scrutinize it all you want, because it levels off and stays completely coherent for the rest of the time you watch it.

This is a very important thing for a calibrator to know, esp. when he is off on a calibration tour, has spent the entire first day superwteaking, and next day wakes up and turns on the set he tits'd out the day before, and finds that it looks like ****!

:D

I've had that happen, and had to remind myself of these things too! The high precision part of a calibration of the convergence has to happen AFTER the set is completely warmed up.


Mr Bob

Is this discussion about TVs?!? It resembles some other subject too :eek:

Is this discussion about TVs?!? It resembles some other subject too :eek:

Well, scrutiny IS scrutiny...

:D


Mr Bob

Well, scrutiny IS scrutiny...

:D


Mr Bob

And all this time I thought you were inscrutable.
:)

And all this time I thought you were inscrutable.
:)

Inscrutable? I'm transparent!

:D


Mr Bob

i looked at my manual 117 pt convergence menu, and at some points on the ends some of the colors, red or blue, are pointed up or down a bit and i cannot adjust the VERY ends. the selector doesnt go to the ends, it goes just shy of it and you can adjust them somewhat, but too much and it sets those colors off further out from the ends. I noticed this because in some letterbox viewing, i can see these same colors on the edges of the picture and i know if i can adjust them out in the menu, my picture will not see them. IS there a way to manually adjust the very edges in the 117 pt screen?

I dont know how to do it from that menu. You might ask about adjusting with the dot pattern but I dont know if it will solve the problem with the edges.

I dont know how to do it from that menu. You might ask about adjusting with the dot pattern but I dont know if it will solve the problem with the edges.

you mean the smaller 9 pt convergence?

ok here's a pic i took with my phone.
quick pic to show the grid.. I think i have an issue where the geometry is off???? am i thinkin correctly? see how the grid on the top and bottom is not straight?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3061/2997552829_6a26345f50.jpg?v=0

Rookie on board here with a question:
Had a house painter in the living room last week..after he was done I now have a 3 inch long narrow drop of brown paint right in the center of the screen..It's a Hitachi 51" rear projection..I am paranoid about touching/cleaning it without advice..The screen is definitely not glass and feels like a pebbly plastic..
My first thought was just to hold a warm tap water cloth against it and then wipe clean..Is that asking for trouble?
Thanks a million for any tips/advice!!!

Rookie on board here with a question:
Had a house painter in the living room last week..after he was done I now have a 3 inch long narrow drop of brown paint right in the center of the screen..It's a Hitachi 51" rear projection..I am paranoid about touching/cleaning it without advice..The screen is definitely not glass and feels like a pebbly plastic..
My first thought was just to hold a warm tap water cloth against it and then wipe clean..Is that asking for trouble?
Thanks a million for any tips/advice!!!


Your screen could already be history, just from what you've stated. Is it latex paint? If so you might get away with doing it the way you have in mind if you get to it quickly enough. If it's the lenticular, be mindful of the vertical ribs on it, and whatever you rub it with, do it lightly so as not to scratch it, and go WITH the ribs, vertically.

Just know that those screens are incredibly fragile and any moisture that gets on them often leaves residue just from that. Using paint thinner would NOT be the prefered way to go...

If you wind up with water residue, try powdering it up after it has dried, and see if it doesn't brush off with a clean, dry terrycloth towel.


Mr Bob

ok here's a pic i took with my phone.
quick pic to show the grid.. I think i have an issue where the geometry is off???? am i thinkin correctly? see how the grid on the top and bottom is not straight?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3061/2997552829_6a26345f50.jpg?v=0

Go to post 1033 (by JWebb I think). It will get you the adjustments on how to lower the brightness of your convergence grid. That way you will be able to see what your doing. I see that bending your talking about at the bottom. You may want to check your horizontal and vertical settings in the Service Menu. I will look for the post that has that in it. I know there are more than one set of those in the service menu. I know mine OOB was off and I had to make a minor adjustment to them to get them right. If I remember right that fixed a slight bending of those lines. First you need to make that adjustment I told you about.

thanks.. ill check it out for sure.!
i called it in for service because there was a shed of light coming thru the top of the pic. the service guy made a manual tweak of the vertical adjustment to get rid of that issue. hopefully tweaking in the SM wont screw that up.

thanks for that tip. so many posts. i turned down the grid's brightness per your suggestion and tweaked it a bit more now.. pic's a bit better. however, im a bit skitchy about messin with the horizontal and vertical. i dont like going into the SM that much.

thanks for that tip. so many posts. i turned down the grid's brightness per your suggestion and tweaked it a bit more now.. pic's a bit better. however, im a bit skitchy about messin with the horizontal and vertical. i dont like going into the SM that much.

As long as you wright your settings down before you change anything and know what to turn it back to the way it was, there is no harm done. Its when you don't know what you did when it can become a mess. Also, the Hitachi XF59 service manual is available if you do a search in this thread.

There are many tweaks that can improve your set, just wright down what you change.

thanks for that tip. so many posts. i turned down the grid's brightness per your suggestion and tweaked it a bit more now.. pic's a bit better. however, im a bit skitchy about messin with the horizontal and vertical. i dont like going into the SM that much.

I would suggest getting past that SM fear as soon as possible and diving right in like a banshee! As superleo has said, as long as you write everything down no harm will come of it.

I would suggest getting past that SM fear as soon as possible and diving right in like a banshee! As superleo has said, as long as you write everything down no harm will come of it.

Remember, you can't necessarily write down the settings of the actual points, and you CAN paint yourself into a corner if you don't know what you're doing on those points. You can also hose your picture incredibly badly as a newbie OR an experienced DIYer, if you do a total reset of the convergence using the first of the 3 options in the sm.

DON'T just dive in! Keep the faith, but be cognizant of some very hazardous pitfalls!


:eek:


Mr Bob

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3061/2997552829_6a26345f50.jpg?v=0

This pic shows a drastic need for optics cleaning. The lines should be crystal clear, yet they have huge amounts of haze in the middle.

Be VERY careful, those lenses are made of plastic and the mirror is a first surface mirror. Not glass surface, except on one model of Hitachi. All the others are first surface.


Mr Bob

i did clean the lenses 2 or 3 weeks ago VERY VERY VERY VERY carefully. they are pretty clean. ill take a new pic tonight with my phone, or my buddy's digital camera if i can borrow it. one of these weekends im buyin a decent camera of my own LOL

i did clean the lenses 2 or 3 weeks ago VERY VERY VERY VERY carefully. they are pretty clean. ill take a new pic tonight with my phone, or my buddy's digital camera if i can borrow it. one of these weekends im buyin a decent camera of my own LOL

Did you do the deeper optics as well as the regular optics?

just the tops of the lenses. im a wuss bob.. you think i went that deep ? LOL

just the tops of the lenses. im a wuss bob.. you think i went that deep ? LOL

That's prolly why I see a great deal of haze on your screen's pic. If you didn't get your mirror, that needs it too.

Remember, you can't necessarily write down the settings of the actual points, and you CAN paint yourself into a corner if you don't know what you're doing on those points. You can also hose your picture incredibly badly as a newbie OR an experienced DIYer, if you do a total reset of the convergence using the first of the 3 options in the sm.

DON'T just dive in! Keep the faith, but be cognizant of some very hazardous pitfalls!


:eek:


Mr Bob


My advice is definitely a little contrary to Mr. Bob's. Don't "just" dive in.

If you are on these forums and you know how to use Google, you have all the tools you need to get your convergence "under control" and to do anythng else within your SM that you will want to do as it relates to the picture quality. I would of course never recommend blindly wading into the SM, but I imagine you would understand that. None of this is ricket science, but it definitely takes a lot of trial and error, and you amy never be able to get things perfect. A professional may nto either. But there is no harm in going into your SM armed with the knowledge on these forums and the internet in general and making your picture far more accurate than it is now.

Don't let anyone tell you that you are incapable of going into the SM and making changes for the better, and as your post implied, you are more than aware that you can royall foul things up. We all could if we didn;t have the ablitiy to read. But luckily for us....we do. I'm not a techncal guy at all, but I promise you, the SM is not as dauntign as it would inititally seem. Especially if you have the desire to make your viewing experience as good as possible. Dive in.....but to be clear, do so after you have read through all or most of this thread and a couple others on here as well. I would also suggest getting the service manual, and as much info as you may require about CRT projectors in general. Things like astigmatism and stuff liek that, that we rarely talk about over here. It's not a life on a table you're operating on, it's a menu within your tv set and it's all doable as long as you really want to do it. I promise you this. Just about everyone on this thread, including myself, is living proof of it.

That's prolly why I see a great deal of haze on your screen's pic. If you didn't get your mirror, that needs it too.

to do that, i need to take the screen off right? Thats where i just plain chicken out 110%.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/blog_detail.php?id=62

An interesting little article about the accuracy of CRT vs LCD.

to do that, i need to take the screen off right? Thats where i just plain chicken out 110%.

Then how did you get to the tops of the lenses?!

Lots of info and pictures about screen removal available here. Look around.

I joked a while ago about putting it back on with Velco so it would be easier to remove. As with most things, the first time's the hardest.

Like the first time I hit "factory reset," but I won't bore you with that story (again).

:)

Then how did you get to the tops of the lenses?!

Lots of info and pictures about screen removal available here. Look around.

I joked a while ago about putting it back on with Velco so it would be easier to remove. As with most things, the first time's the hardest.

Like the first time I hit "factory reset," but I won't bore you with that story (again).

:)

you know, take the back plate off.. there they are staring at you in the face... you could ALMOST do the black out procedure from there too, but it is just a bit too tight to do it properly i think too.

The screen is to easy to take off. If you went thru the back you will be amazed how easy the front is. YOu can clean your mirror...with caution. It will be hazy. Those coolant cups will have dust and crud. This thread will get you there. Just follow the directions. I will search for the latest one. The mirror takes thelongest because it fogs up like a car window.

Then how did you get to the tops of the lenses?!

Lots of info and pictures about screen removal available here. Look around.

I joked a while ago about putting it back on with Velco so it would be easier to remove. As with most things, the first time's the hardest.

Like the first time I hit "factory reset," but I won't bore you with that story (again).

:)

Dont say those two words:eek::eek:

and use exactly what to clean it? NOT something like windex i know.
can you use something like rainX window cleaner? ( i think of car products that i know for a fact repel dust from my car like crazy that actually work)

My advice is definitely a little contrary to Mr. Bob's. Don't "just" dive in.

If you are on these forums and you know how to use Google, you have all the tools you need to get your convergence "under control" and to do anythng else within your SM that you will want to do as it relates to the picture quality. I would of course never recommend blindly wading into the SM, but I imagine you would understand that. None of this is ricket science, but it definitely takes a lot of trial and error, and you amy never be able to get things perfect. A professional may nto either. But there is no harm in going into your SM armed with the knowledge on these forums and the internet in general and making your picture far more accurate than it is now.

Don't let anyone tell you that you are incapable of going into the SM and making changes for the better, and as your post implied, you are more than aware that you can royall foul things up. We all could if we didn;t have the ablitiy to read. But luckily for us....we do. I'm not a techncal guy at all, but I promise you, the SM is not as dauntign as it would inititally seem. Especially if you have the desire to make your viewing experience as good as possible. Dive in.....but to be clear, do so after you have read through all or most of this thread and a couple others on here as well. I would also suggest getting the service manual, and as much info as you may require about CRT projectors in general. Things like astigmatism and stuff liek that, that we rarely talk about over here. It's not a life on a table you're operating on, it's a menu within your tv set and it's all doable as long as you really want to do it. I promise you this. Just about everyone on this thread, including myself, is living proof of it.

I agree with everything you've said here, and your screenshots prove you ABSOLUTELY know what you're doing, in this genre.

;)

I am just saying, for the uninitiated, to not be a cowboy out there. Bad things happen to the undiligent. YOU are obviously diligent - but there are those out there who are "something for nothing"rs and will want it all without paying their dues. Dues like reading the whole thread, or doing research before entering, or keeping track of initial and ongoing register values, or assuming they have reached critical mass of learning before they actually have.

There ARE pitfalls in doing this! And there are RICH REWARDS in doing this! Avoid the first, do the second.

Don't be a cowboy. Do it right. Reap the rewards for getting in there and improving things, too. We here have, and whether DIY or pro, we all have found how phenomenal a picture these Hitachis are capable of, with the right treatment!

Great Widescreen Review article there, too! Thanks for that -


:cool:


Mr Bob

I agree with everything you've said here, and your screenshots prove you ABSOLUTELY know what you're doing, in this genre.

;)

I am just saying, for the uninitiated, to not be a cowboy out there. Bad things happen to the undiligent. YOU are obviously diligent - but there are those out there who are "something for nothing"ers and will want it all without paying the dues. Dues like reading the whole thread, or doing research before entering, keeping track of initial and ongoing register values, or assuming they have reached critical mass of learning before they actually have.

There ARE pitfalls in doing this! And there are RICH REWARDS in doing this! Avoid the first, do the second.

Don't be a cowboy. Do it right. Reap the rewards for getting in there and improving things, too. We here have, and whether DIY or pro, we all have found how phenomenal a picture these Hitachis are capable of, with the right treatment!

Great Widescreen Review article there, too! Thanks for that -


:cool:


Mr Bob

I agree with everything you've said here as well. It can be done, but do some research before doing it. None of us have the wealth of experience that you do and we're all more than grateful for your many words of wisdom here. God I love CRT!!!!

You want pictures about how to clean your set...

here you go http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037039&highlight=rpcrt+cleaning

I agree with Mr. Bob, do as much research as needed for you to understand what it takes to do whatever you set to do to your set.

You want pictures about how to clean your set...

here you go http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037039&highlight=rpcrt+cleaning

I agree with Mr. Boob, do as much research as needed for you to understand what it takes to do whatever you set to do to your set.

I agree with Mr Boob as well. HA HA HA HA. I love typos!

call me what you want, after what i did to my mits.. im a scared.. sorry

I agree with Mr Boob as well. HA HA HA HA. I love typos!

Just typing away... typing away

Mr. Bob (typo has been corrected):eek:

call me what you want, after what i did to my mits.. im a scared.. sorry

I don't think anyone is caling you anything at all, and I can definitely understand not being so gung ho to jump into anything after having a bad experience. All I can say is, you have all the help in the world here and the before and after is incredible and worth all the reading and sweat. Not a whole lot of sweat actually. Basically none.

oh i know.. im just a wuss.

new pic after i turned down the contrast of the 107pt screen
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/3003438847_e7a31f5e7d.jpg?v=0

Convergence screen looks better. I wonder if its the screenshot from the camera or if you really have that much haze in the center of the screen.

Also use non amonia wipes or spray. Try sprayway. Target and Wal-Mart has it. Cleans well. The sprayway is under pressure so it will spray a good pattern. It dissappears quickly though and usually is safe. Really anything without amonia.

honestly, its the camera. this picture was from a dvr'd concert from megadeth, and it looked STUNNING in person, but my crappy camera phone made it look like a tinker toy camera
ill get better pics when i borrow a good camera
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/3003620205_ed0a2516ac.jpg?v=0

honestly, its the camera. this picture was from a dvr'd concert from megadeth, and it looked STUNNING in person, but my crappy camera phone made it look like a tinker toy camera
ill get better pics when i borrow a good camera


Yes, you probably will, but it takes lots of time, effort and practice to get something like this:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4637/swordfishak9.jpg

You can do it, but it takes more than a "good camera." Lots of our sets look like this now. Yours can, too.

Good luck.

Thats how my set looks 'to my eyes'.. but i cant represent it with my camera phone of course.

Yes, you probably will, but it takes lots of time, effort and practice to get something like this:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4637/swordfishak9.jpg

You can do it, but it takes more than a "good camera." Lots of our sets look like this now. Yours can, too.

Good luck.

No more pics from your set. It makes me feel bad!!!!:(:(

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere in this thread but I haven't been able to find it. I have a 51F59A. It is blowing the main power fuse. From what I understand, this is a common problem and is a weak point in the TV. I've heard there is a fix for it that is much tougher than the original components. If anyone can point me to this, I would appreciate it.

Never heard of that one but Hitachi has scheduled me for the HDMI fix. I cant remember who was the test subject before. Can someone tell me what to expect? I need to know what I will have to re-do.

No more pics from your set. It makes me feel bad!!!!:(:(

You of all people shouldn't have any trouble "keeping up," so let's see 'em!

Never heard of that one but Hitachi has scheduled me for the HDMI fix. I cant remember who was the test subject before. Can someone tell me what to expect? I need to know what I will have to re-do.

1. never heard of the fuse problem, either.
2. jwebb.
3. nothing, as long as you make sure they transfer the DCU module.

I'm signed up too, so we'll see what happens.

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere in this thread but I haven't been able to find it. I have a 51F59A. It is blowing the main power fuse. From what I understand, this is a common problem and is a weak point in the TV. I've heard there is a fix for it that is much tougher than the original components. If anyone can point me to this, I would appreciate it.


I have never seen any CRT RPTV blowing a MAIN power fuse! Must be something in your front-end power supply ciruitry, like a shorted filter cap - parallel - or shorted diode - series. Something in the early part of your circuitry is trying to draw current like a MF'r!

If so, that's much better than having to ferret out what it is, further downline -


Mr Bob

123853Im trying my first screenshot. Its from transformers. Figued i would try it here first. How do i attach it as a pic? pic looks soft compared to thr real image that downloaded.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/blog_detail.php?id=62

An interesting little article about the accuracy of CRT vs LCD.

interesting article. Cofirms what we already know. I went ahead and added that feed.

I changed the SM settings to the ones for the HDMI fix and now I'm only getting the shifting issue. I still have a blurry picture along the edges of the screen when using my PC through HDMI. On this page http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=790702&page=2 someone was having a similar problem with blurry text along the edges with their Xbox 360 through HDMI. Lee Bailey recommended using the 117 pt convergence to fix this. Where can I find instructions on how to fix this with 117 pt convergence?

you can do it from user menu. under menu it is the last choice, settings I think. then go to magic focus. highlight the 117 option. then select. you will see the cursor and lines. it will be white. hit select and it will turn red. make changes by toggling the up down keys around the select button. same for blue. move it around by the r/l keys. your goal is to get the lines all white without red or blue showing. have fun.

123853Im trying my first screenshot. Its from transformers. Figued i would try it here first. How do i attach it as a pic? pic looks soft compared to thr real image that downloaded.

Mustang68? Sounds familiar...maybe from the OT days. I'm over at NN now.

you can do it from user menu. under menu it is the last choice, settings I think. then go to magic focus. highlight the 117 option. then select. you will see the cursor and lines. it will be white. hit select and it will turn red. make changes by toggling the up down keys around the select button. same for blue. move it around by the r/l keys. your goal is to get the lines all white without red or blue showing. have fun.

So I'm supposed to move the red and blue cursors around the screen until they turn white?

So I'm supposed to move the red and blue cursors around the screen until they turn white?

you are suppose to overlap red and blue onto the white, until the only line you see is white. Blue will always look to like overflowes the white line, this is normal.

Start in the center and work your self around until you cover the whole screen.

Once you do this, do not use magic focus, just check it once in a while an re do it manually if needed.

123853Im trying my first screenshot. Its from transformers. Figued i would try it here first. How do i attach it as a pic? pic looks soft compared to thr real image that downloaded.

Sign up for a free account at imageshack.us (note: not com!). Not the easiest interface in the world, but it does work. If you don't resize it before, use imageshack to resize to 1024 x whatever (it's an upload option). Then imageshack assigns a link that you post here.
Try it. If you hit any snags, just ask here.
And yes, screenshots are a royal PITA.

you are suppose to overlap red and blue onto the white, until the only line you see is white. Blue will always look to like overflowes the white line, this is normal.

Start in the center and work your self around until you cover the whole screen.

Once you do this, do not use magic focus, just check it once in a while an re do it manually if needed.

It looks to me like it's already overlapped with white all over the screen without me needing to make any changes to it. Is this possible or am I not looking at it right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean148
Rookie on board here with a question:
Had a house painter in the living room last week..after he was done I now have a 3 inch long narrow drop of brown paint right in the center of the screen..It's a Hitachi 51" rear projection..I am paranoid about touching/cleaning it without advice..The screen is definitely not glass and feels like a pebbly plastic..
My first thought was just to hold a warm tap water cloth against it and then wipe clean..Is that asking for trouble?
Thanks a million for any tips/advice!!!

Your screen could already be history, just from what you've stated. Is it latex paint? If so you might get away with doing it the way you have in mind if you get to it quickly enough. If it's the lenticular, be mindful of the vertical ribs on it, and whatever you rub it with, do it lightly so as not to scratch it, and go WITH the ribs, vertically.

Just know that those screens are incredibly fragile and any moisture that gets on them often leaves residue just from that. Using paint thinner would NOT be the prefered way to go...

If you wind up with water residue, try powdering it up after it has dried, and see if it doesn't brush off with a clean, dry terrycloth towel.


Mr Bob

Took a shot at cleaning it with a warm, damp cloth and rubbed very lightly. No luck at all..
I found the small paint can the painter was using for touch-ups and it is a brown enamel paint..
On anything else I would use nail polish remover, paint thinner, gasoline to get it off..
Any other miracle product around?
This 3" paint line thin drip is directly in the center of the screen..
Thanks again!

I found the small paint can the painter was using for touch-ups and it is a brown enamel paint..
On anything else I would use nail polish remover, paint thinner, gasoline to get it off..
Any other miracle product around?
This 3" paint line thin drip is directly in the center of the screen..
Thanks again!

Everyone's favorite miracle product: WD40.:D
But that won't help you here.
I don't think anything will, frankly.
My own personal favorite miracle product is Goo Gone. Might help, not likely to do any more harm. Problem now is that the paint is probably deeply embedded in the ridges that make up the screen.
From where I'm sitting, the painter owes you a new screen.

Took a shot at cleaning it with a warm, damp cloth and rubbed very lightly. No luck at all..
I found the small paint can the painter was using for touch-ups and it is a brown enamel paint..
On anything else I would use nail polish remover, paint thinner, gasoline to get it off..
Any other miracle product around?
This 3" paint line thin drip is directly in the center of the screen..
Thanks again!

I would use a razor blade. Specifically those used in box-cutters. 1st wet the spot(painted area) Move the blade down wards from top to bottom. You should do this in increments.

If your not your willing to do this your other option is Paint Thinner or Turpentine

From where I'm sitting, the painter owes you a new screen.

I'm with Michael on this. Enamal doesn't come off easily from ANYTHING. Much less a sensitive item like these screens. Any attempt to get it off will probably result in further damage.

:(

Painters are supposed to know better. Hold them to their damage of your screen.


Mr Bob

Received my call from Hit today. All I have to do is set up the tech visit. Not looking forward to that. I'll be asking a lot of questions before I let them come out though.

It looks to me like it's already overlapped with white all over the screen without me needing to make any changes to it. Is this possible or am I not looking at it right?

Do this tweak and you will be able to make it even tighter.

Go into SM.

Scroll down to TA1360 submenu (3rd page/list of submenus) and press ENTER
Scroll thru TA1360 to the desired parameters.
WHen changing the values, you must:

-Make sure you write down any original value, just in case.
-When you have changed a specific value, you need to press ENTER on the remote to make it "stick".

As to what to change these to for best results, here are the settings ("factory" first, "tweaked" second) that will essentially dial down the DCAM grid contrast/brightness by half (approximating a 50IRE grid):

DCUBRT (DCAM grid brightness) 3F down to 1F
DCUCNT (DCAM grid contrast) 5A down to 2D

Remember to press ENTER on the F59 remote after making changes, otherwise settings will revert to their previous value as soon as you exit the SM.

This "tweak" makes the F59 DCAM grid (both in service DCAM mode & user "manual Magic Focus" mode - 117pt adj) much more usable.

Do this tweak and you will be able to make it even tighter.

Go into SM.

Scroll down to TA1360 submenu (3rd page/list of submenus) and press ENTER
Scroll thru TA1360 to the desired parameters.
WHen changing the values, you must:

-Make sure you write down any original value, just in case.
-When you have changed a specific value, you need to press ENTER on the remote to make it "stick".

As to what to change these to for best results, here are the settings ("factory" first, "tweaked" second) that will essentially dial down the DCAM grid contrast/brightness by half (approximating a 50IRE grid):

DCUBRT (DCAM grid brightness) 3F down to 1F
DCUCNT (DCAM grid contrast) 5A down to 2D

Remember to press ENTER on the F59 remote after making changes, otherwise settings will revert to their previous value as soon as you exit the SM.

This "tweak" makes the F59 DCAM grid (both in service DCAM mode & user "manual Magic Focus" mode - 117pt adj) much more usable.

I made the tweak, but I still can't see that blue or red is off the white on any part of the screen. Could it already be perfect without ever being adjusted?

I made the tweak, but I still can't see that blue or red is off the white on any part of the screen. Could it already be perfect without ever being adjusted?

You can move it out and then back into alignment.

You might have a very good set where the DCAM does not shift that easy.

if its perfect then be happy. I alway have to adjust out a little red.

if its perfect then be happy. I alway have to adjust out a little red.

I hate the blue defocus!

I hate the blue defocus!

Today's sets do not need the blue defocus. You can realign the grayscale with the blue as tightly focused electrostatically as possible, allowing for the tightest picture possible.

Blue defocus was for times gone by, when the blue guns were weaker than they are today.


Mr Bob

Today's sets do not need the blue defocus. You can realign the grayscale with the blue as tightly focused electrostatically as possible, allowing for the tightest picture possible.

Blue defocus was for times gone by, when the blue guns were weaker than they are today.


Mr Bob

I hear ya, but my blue is still defocused. I can't get it as tight as red and green no matter what I do.

I hear ya, but my blue is still defocused. I can't get it as tight as red and green no matter what I do.

Blue is rarely as tightly focused as red and green on 7" guns, no matter how well done the focusing job is. But that's OK, because blue is more a fill color than a structure color, like red and green are.

From any normal viewing distance, if you've done all that can be done and you cannot see the blue glowing outside white letters like you can when you're up close and personal with the screen, then it's focused tightly enough.


Mr Bob

I guess I'm pretty good with blue but I do see that it is much harder o deal with. On my convergence grid it is always much harder to figure out if blue is out than it is red. Red is easy. Blue is soft enough I cant always tell.

I hate green. I have never been able to get green dialed in on color isolation. Red/blue are spot on or very close while two boxes on the pattern on green are visibly off. I cant see a negative impact though on the PQ. I know my grayscale must be near spot on (Thanks Mr. Bob). Sin City was on the other night and the B/W scenes were just that.

I guess I'm pretty good with blue but I do see that it is much harder o deal with. On my convergence grid it is always much harder to figure out if blue is out than it is red. Red is easy. Blue is soft enough I cant always tell.

I hate green. I have never been able to get green dialed in on color isolation. Red/blue are spot on or very close while two boxes on the pattern on green are visibly off. I cant see a negative impact though on the PQ. I know my grayscale must be near spot on (Thanks Mr. Bob). Sin City was on the other night and the B/W scenes were just that.

When I can, I always converge the blue against red rather than green. It's a lot easier to see that way.

The green will come in if you use full color iso, but whenever I try to use green filters, it never comes in right. Have yet to find an accurate green filter, tho the HD DVE filters are the best I have found yet.

Glad you are still enjoying the fruits of our phone consultation a few months ago!


;)

Mr Bob

OK Hitachi rep is coming out on Tuesday to do the signal block HDMI warranty fix. I questioned them and he seemed to know plenty about EPROM?? and such things. He did not seem to know much about this brand of TV in general. I asked about this and the tech could not tell me for sure if all Service settings would be affected. I have the ones I have changed written down but I guess I better write every single one down. What a pain. Pls remind me anyone who has had this done what it will affect if anything and what should I expect.

OK Hitachi rep is coming out on Tuesday to do the signal block HDMI warranty fix. I questioned them and he seemed to know plenty about EPROM?? and such things. He did not seem to know much about this brand of TV in general. I asked about this and the tech could not tell me for sure if all Service settings would be affected. I have the ones I have changed written down but I guess I better write every single one down. What a pain. Pls remind me anyone who has had this done what it will affect if anything and what should I expect.

If your tech follows the protocols set forth during the beta test, you should be fine.

Basically, what needs to happen is that the DCU on the signal block that houses your convergence data needs to be removed from the original part & placed on the new signal block. That way, your conv/o'scan tweaks will carry over to the new board. If done right, all you will need to do is touch up convergence a tad & be done with it.

As I recall, all other pre-repair SM values remained the same post repair.

If your tech follows the protocols set forth during the beta test, you should be fine.

Basically, what needs to happen is that the DCU on the signal block that houses your convergence data needs to be removed from the original part & placed on the new signal block. That way, your conv/o'scan tweaks will carry over to the new board. If done right, all you will need to do is touch up convergence a tad & be done with it.

As I recall, all other pre-repair SM values remained the same post repair.

Thanks! I hope it goes that way. I imagine they will go thru the back panel. I didn't know that Hitachi would send them a step by step guide but that makes perfect sense. If they did it to yours and others I would think I will be OK.
Still Murphy seems to love me so anything could happen.

Make sure your tech knows the DCU is socketed, not soldered, to the signal block. That misunderstanding left me with no tv for 2 weeks! Tech guy finally figured it out just before he was going to install the whole new signal block, which would have completely hose my convergence.

He also tightened mechanical focus on the green gun, which had drifted a tad. Watched "Elizabeth" last night and the costumes were stunning!

Make sure your tech knows the DCU is socketed, not soldered, to the signal block. That misunderstanding left me with no tv for 2 weeks! Tech guy finally figured it out just before he was going to install the whole new signal block, which would have completely hose my convergence.

He also tightened mechanical focus on the green gun, which had drifted a tad. Watched "Elizabeth" last night and the costumes were stunning!

Cool..I will tell him that right off. If I can get him to do some mechanical focus on the green gun or any of them I certainly will. I would think they wouldn't do anything for free though. Maybe if he figures Hitachi is paying he will.

Cool..I will tell him that right off. If I can get him to do some mechanical focus on the green gun or any of them I certainly will. I would think they wouldn't do anything for free though. Maybe if he figures Hitachi is paying he will.

Chances of the green being the one that's out on 2 different sets is pretty slim. It could be any of them. On the one in Denver I just got back from, all 3 needed refocusing.


Mr Bob

From my experience of reading this thread I have a lot of reservations about these local techs. Seems they have very little experience or knowledge. I chalk it up to a sign of the times. Can you remember going into the Auto Parts store and someone actually knowing anything. For that matter anything these days. Hopefully this is not the case this time.

I saw the James Bond flick this weekend. It is clear that our sets, CRT, best duplicate that experience. The movie looked more like what my set depicts HD DVD's and a good Sat feed of a movie. When looking at the same thing on the other technologies they have that glossy sharp lines that comes with that tech. It lacks the film look that you see in the cinema. Nice t o be reminded of that. I dont make it to the movies that much anymore.

P.S> Any of you guys like Star Trek I found a really cool Star Trek RPG site I joined. Just in case there are some Trekies running around.

P.S> Any of you guys like Star Trek I found a really cool Star Trek RPG site I joined. Just in case there are some Trekies running around.


Check out the trailer for the next Star Trek movie, directed by jj abrams, of Alias and MI 3. Looks killer -

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/


Mr Bob

Blue is rarely as tightly focused as red and green on 7" guns, no matter how well done the focusing job is. But that's OK, because blue is more a fill color than a structure color, like red and green are.

From any normal viewing distance, if you've done all that can be done and you cannot see the blue glowing outside white letters like you can when you're up close and personal with the screen, then it's focused tightly enough.


Mr Bob

No matter what I do, the blue will not focus as tightly as the red and green. It angers me!

Check out the trailer for the next Star Trek movie, directed by jj abrams, of Alias and MI 3. Looks killer -

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/


Mr Bob


Looks to rock - TREK reimagined/rebooted by an old school Star Wars fan (Abrams). Right up my alley.

And the young Uhura is HOT!!!!!!!!!

I'm so there....

Looks to rock - TREK reimagined/rebooted by an old school Star Wars fan (Abrams). Right up my alley.

And the young Uhura is HOT!!!!!!!!!

I'm so there....

We are so OLD! :(

No matter what I do, the blue will not focus as tightly as the red and green. It angers me!

Could be astigmatism, where your hor and vert are not symmetrically their tightest at your blue focus block focus setting. Does your blue CRT neck have astig adj mags? Often red and green do while blue does not.

If that's the case you might want to order a replacement set for red or green, and simply put it on your blue and realign your blue astig.


Mr Bob

Hello,

I’m having an issue with my Hitachi 51F510: I know how great the black levels are supposed to be (I’ve set them with the DVE disc) but whenever there is a bright field on the screen next to a black field, it completely washes out the black making it look gray. This affects my overall picture greatly. Does this have anything to do with the protective front screen dispersing the light? Is it internal reflections? My old CRT tube TV does not do this. Please help.

Hello,

I’m having an issue with my Hitachi 51F510: I know how great the black levels are supposed to be (I’ve set them with the DVE disc) but whenever there is a bright field on the screen next to a black field, it completely washes out the black making it look gray. This affects my overall picture greatly. Does this have anything to do with the protective front screen dispersing the light? Is it internal reflections? My old CRT tube TV does not do this. Please help.

Sounds like optics cleaning is needed. The 30KV inherent in CRT use really does a number on the optical surfaces inside your optical cavity, literally sucking lint, dust, dander, grit, smoke, soot and everything else that's airborn OUT of the air and onto your optics. That's the nature of high voltage, it's just doing what comes naturally to it, it's the basic bottom line of how ionizers work. They clean the air by getting the particulates drawn OUT of the air and onto the closest smooth surface, via static charge.

After 3 years all CRT RPTVs are already in desperate need of professional grade optics cleaning, and it just gets worse and worse year by year after that. Most people don't know that. The manufacturers and retailers certainly don't want you to know it. They want you to think your set is worn out and buy new.

The kicker is that restoring a crystal clear light path for your set to be displaying your video on can happen in a single afternoon. And believe me, it's a night and day difference.

Let me know if you want personal coaching on that, to make sure you don't damage any of your irreplaceable optics, which are very fragile. The lenses are plastic and very easily scratched and/or scuffed (scuffing = thousands of tiny scratches). The mirror is a front surface mirror, meaning you are NOT cleaning glass! You're cleaning the reflective coating directly!

Contact me directly, not by pm.


Mr Bob



Optics Before, 7 year old Pioneer (scanned from 35mm neg by my roommate - )


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7863/opticsbeforeiikw0.jpg[/URL]


Optics After (same day)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1382/opticsafterzt4.jpg[/URL]

Sounds like optics cleaning is needed. The 30KV inherent in CRT use really does a number on the optical surfaces inside your optical cavity, literally sucking lint, dust, dander, grit, smoke, soot and everything else that's airborn OUT of the air and onto your optics. That's the nature of high voltage, it's just doing what comes naturally to it. After 3 years all CRT RPTVs are already in desperate need of professional grade optics cleaning, and it just gets worse and worse year by year after that. Most people don't know that. The manufacturers and retailers certainly don't want you to know it. They want you to think your set is worn out and buy new.

The kicker is that restoring a crystal clear light path for your set to be displaying your video on, can happen in a single afternoon. And believe me, it's a night and day difference.

Let me know if you want private coaching on that, to make sure you don't damage any of your irreplaceable optics, which are very fragile. Contact me directly, not by pm.


Mr Bob


I gave my old 4:3 Hitachi Multivision RPCRT to my brother in law when I got my HD 57F59 20 months ago, and I had that tv for nearly 13 years before then. It always looked very nice.

We've been to his house several times, they live out in the boonies among the wild life and some domestic animals, I have mentioned that "HE" needed to clean the optics and mirror to bring the tv back to life, his reply was ... what!!! "YOU' need to do that for me.

We were there last week end, so he decides to ask, "I think we have time to clean the tv?" So we gather the window cleaner, paper towels and vacum and got to work. It took roughly an hour, we just did the inside, mirror and surface lenses. Once we put it back together and got a picture on it his exact words were " Holy Shxx it looks like a fuxxing new TV"

Point being, even old old tv can benefit greatly from a good optics and mirror cleaning.

That's exactly what is going on with my TV.

I will take a crack at taking the front cover off tonight and will speak with you on Friday.

Thanks for all your help!

Rob

Point being, even old old tv can benefit greatly from a good optics and mirror cleaning.

Older it is, the more it needs it!


Mr Bob

That's exactly what is going on with my TV.

I will take a crack at taking the front cover off tonight and will speak with you on Friday.

Thanks for all your help!

Rob


I'll be looking forward to that -


Mr Bob

Immediate rescue plan in effect. The Hit Service guy came out. He had general knowledge but not particular. Let me know if I'm wrong guys. Hit sent him with the whole EPROMM Board. He replaced it...everything. He could not get the convergence even close. He took off my old DCU and put that back and it was better. ALL MY Settings were flushed. I had to start over and my old settings were NO GOOD for this set up. Well some worked while others did not.


There are a whole slew of settings I never messed with that are now different then they were that I cant change. They start at

MT-M01 thru
OSDCL1

THey are far different than what I had. Most previously were 00. Now they range all over the place with a few that change as the pic changes. I guess that part is normal but these settings are now Locked in where before they would change. Is this part of the FIX????

Color Decoding was hell. Grayscale came in close using my settings I had worked out with Mr. Bob,,thank God.

On convergence I can align it horizontally but I have a red shift to the right across the pattern vertically. I still need to go and mess with STATG, SRTGA ect... to see if my old settings are right for t his set up. I dont have time tonight. Let me know exactly what you guys experienced please.

Also I need to know how to adjust vertically.

Also I need to know how to adjust vertically.

Believe it or not, that's under the FC4 menu -> vertical pos.

Good luck with everything else. Sounds like a real mess!

Believe it or not, that's under the FC4 menu -> vertical pos.

Good luck with everything else. Sounds like a real mess!

[/I]

It is. I just finished with 4hrs of color decoding and other adjustments. I knew this guy would not know what he was doing. I had to tell him that it was the signal block. He had no idea. Hitachi just gave him the instructions to change out the whole EPROMM and that was it. They told him convergence would need tweaking. Heck it was so far off the guy didn't even want to mess with it.

I have it close again but will have to do that vertical fix. Thanks Michael. what a pain. Good I have you guys out there.

P.S> I tried that FC4 setting but that did not move the lines. What I'm looking at is vertical only lines that are out of convergence. The blue, white, red are clearly visible by themselves. With blue & red on either side of white. Will DCAM allow me to adjust convergence vertically?

P.S> I tried that FC4 setting but that did not move the lines. What I'm looking at is vertical only lines that are out of convergence. The blue, white, red are clearly visible by themselves. With blue & red on either side of white. Will DCAM allow me to adjust convergence vertically?

Sorry, thought you needed to move the picture vertically.
If the whole grid needs to be moved, press "play" to enable "raster position" mode. It will move the whole grid at one time. Cycle through the colors in the usual way. Otherwise, you just need to move each line individually.
Glad you're getting close. I hope, by the time they get to me, they have a little more experience with this.

Sorry, thought you needed to move the picture vertically.
If the whole grid needs to be moved, press "play" to enable "raster position" mode. It will move the whole grid at one time. Cycle through the colors in the usual way. Otherwise, you just need to move each line individually.
Glad you're getting close. I hope, by the time they get to me, they have a little more experience with this.

I just redid mine a few days ago directly through DCAM, I've been doing minor touch ups through the user menu, had some alone time to go in to DCAM and checked it through SM. "Rastar position" is for major adjustments, and as Michael mentions it moves the entire line at once, either vertically or horizontally.

Page 34 in the service manual explains how to go into DCAM and then page 44 and 45 explains how to go through the different adjustment modes. As per the manual (13x9) mode should be used to finish the convergence adjustment.

Also, don't forget to ROM WRITE several times to make sure it takes.

Hopefully I'm posting in the correct location.

Chad Billheimer came out earlier this month and calibrated my TV and surround sound system. HDTVbychadb.com

Simply incredible; he spent 8.5 hours doing everything and the improvement is monumental.

Well worth every penny, he really knows what he's doing. I have a Hitachi 51F and Pioneer 515VSX, dish 722 hd dvr, progressive scan DVD and xbox360. He took his time explaining what was wrong with the TV (grayscale etc) and he is a perfectionist.

Highly recommend getting it done.

I just redid mine a few days ago directly through DCAM, I've been doing minor touch ups through the user menu, had some alone time to go in to DCAM and checked it through SM. "Rastar position" is for major adjustments, and as Michael mentions it moves the entire line at once, either vertically or horizontally.

Page 34 in the service manual explains how to go into DCAM and then page 44 and 45 explains how to go through the different adjustment modes. As per the manual (13x9) mode should be used to finish the convergence adjustment.

Also, don't forget to ROM WRITE several times to make sure it takes.

I just finished convergence thru DCAM. Let me tell you that is a little nerve racking with all the changes in the remote when you change into that mode. Still my convergence pattern is perfect now. Thanks!!!!:):)

I just finished convergence thru DCAM. Let me tell you that is a little nerve racking with all the changes in the remote when you change into that mode. Still my convergence pattern is perfect now. Thanks!!!!:):)

You are welcome... Now go to the RPRCT reference material thread and show us your well tuned set!!! :)