Grayscale?? Sounds like your grayscale is off with to much green. Thats a tricky adjustment by eye if this is the case. Giving you my settings would not help at all. I guess we need to start with how well you know the Service Menu?

Has anyone else any other ideas??

Well I've been messing with the adjustments on the service menu for awhile, I can take out green color on the color management sections, but I worry about getting the color right. What even worse I just watched the NFC championship game on my buddy's 62" Sony rear projection and it reminded me how green my TV was. From reading the threads on here I guess it needs tweaking anyway, its 5-6 years old. However the green seemed to "pop up" one dat leading me to believe something went. Online I rear about adjusting the green color gun, so I did-but that just made it out of focus. I'm a mechanic by trade but a total newbie at this tweaking stuff. The TV is about THIS close to ending up my curb for the trash man, if I can find a great price on an LCD at clearance in Circuit City I just might.

Well I've been messing with the adjustments on the service menu for awhile, I can take out green color on the color management sections, but I worry about getting the color right. What even worse I just watched the NFC championship game on my buddy's 62" Sony rear projection and it reminded me how green my TV was. From reading the threads on here I guess it needs tweaking anyway, its 5-6 years old. However the green seemed to "pop up" one dat leading me to believe something went. Online I rear about adjusting the green color gun, so I did-but that just made it out of focus. I'm a mechanic by trade but a total newbie at this tweaking stuff. The TV is about THIS close to ending up my curb for the trash man, if I can find a great price on an LCD at clearance in Circuit City I just might.

I know Mr. Bob agreed that was your problem, but it seems awfully hard to believe your greyscale would just collapse and go green overnight. I know I would assume something went wrong. Either electronics, or one of the color tubes losing it's mojo and letting green dominate. But I'm not qualified to give those answers.

Hi just registered here looking for some help. About a month ago I noticed my Hitachi 51F510 started looking green, not real green just when the screen shows a dark scene with alot of shadows, the shadows are green. Tried all sorts of adjustments to no avail. For the most part the TV still looks great, if you are watching a football game or some show that doesn't show alot of shadows the HD looks great. I hate to throw it out but getting it fixed might not be worth it. BTW I'm a mechanic by trade and have an associates in Electronics so I could probably repair it myself if I knew what was wrong with it. Thanks!


Sounds like gray scale, but "all sorts of adjustments" is meaningless if you want real help. You will have to be very specific and post some images.

now i also want to say that my set will not save these adjustments if i power off! it used to, but now i cant even get the magic focus to work when back on my regular screen. by that, i mean that i hit 'select' when 'start' is highlighted, and it just goes back the my main input screen. and when i screw around with the remote too much i get stuck in a green ajustment screen with whitenoise in the back, that's very loud. hope fully i will figure out what the h*ll is going on...


The remote may be stuck in DCAM or some other mode. I've ended up in some strange ones, myself. Easiest just to remove the batteries. Otherwise, I just go back and forth between TV - 0 - 1 and TV - MENU - INFO until it works properly.
Magic Focus won't work because your image doesn't reach the sensors. No great loss. No loss at all, frankly, so don't bother.
After making a change in DCAM, you must hit SELECT for the change to stick. If you don't, the setting changes back to what was there before. Hopefully, that is the problem.
Glad it worked out well for you. Enjoy.

So the entire assembly is just resting on top of the shimming blocks? Is there no way to screw it back down after this - I'd be worried about moving the set at all and having the assembly slip, or is it heavy enough that isn't a problem?

There seems to be quite a difference in the size of the blocks used also - some say 2.75" and scifigeek says 1". What was your overscan before you did the mod scifigeek?

And you got the greenscreen of death with the horrible noise huh...I did that once and it completely ****ed my grayscale, is yours ok?

i believe that my overscan was about 5%, and yes the assembly is very heavy. the grayscale seemed okay...

Well I've been messing with the adjustments on the service menu for awhile, I can take out green color on the color management sections, but I worry about getting the color right. What even worse I just watched the NFC championship game on my buddy's 62" Sony rear projection and it reminded me how green my TV was. From reading the threads on here I guess it needs tweaking anyway, its 5-6 years old. However the green seemed to "pop up" one dat leading me to believe something went. Online I rear about adjusting the green color gun, so I did-but that just made it out of focus. I'm a mechanic by trade but a total newbie at this tweaking stuff. The TV is about THIS close to ending up my curb for the trash man, if I can find a great price on an LCD at clearance in Circuit City I just might.

"Clearance" at CC hasn't been a great bargain lately. They're in foreclosure, not just having a sale, so check prices carefully. Also, I'd worry about returns and warranty service.
You're set's just broken in, probably not broken. If you're that close to replacing it, pay someone who knows what he's doing to clean and calibrate it.
Or buy an Eye One and CalMan (or ColorHCFR) and start the long (fun) DIY routine.
I'd start by going to RGBOUT and changing it to 1, 2, and 3, one at a time, and hitting SERVICE. You'll get one line across the screen. Each of those lines should be about the same thickness and each should just reach the right side. I'm betting that your green line is much larger than the others. Fixing it requires messing with the SCREEN pots, which is VERY risky if you don't know what your doing (but at least you'll have an idea of what's wrong and, if you're thinking of tossing the set anyway, you may not mind messing around).
It can be done.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15434105#post15434105

The remote may be stuck in DCAM or some other mode. I've ended up in some strange ones, myself. Easiest just to remove the batteries. Otherwise, I just go back and forth between TV - 0 - 1 and TV - MENU - INFO until it works properly.
Magic Focus won't work because your image doesn't reach the sensors. No great loss. No loss at all, frankly, so don't bother.
After making a change in DCAM, you must hit SELECT for the change to stick. If you don't, the setting changes back to what was there before. Hopefully, that is the problem.
Glad it worked out well for you. Enjoy.

i posted just before your message came up... good to hear that the regular magic focus won't work now because i have so little overscan :), correct then that i have no loss. do you mean to hit select after moving the red, green or blue line? or after out of a certain screen?

Man are we a bunch of busy tweakers. I did the Shim mod last night. I ended up getting those hard to reach side screws with a small crescent wrench. I used the original particle boards that covered the top of the assembly originally as my base. I just lifted up the assembly and sat it back down on them. I then screwed them in place. I then added 1 by 2 blocks in. My total height is 1" 1/4 inches. I wanted to go a little higher but I had a wire connected to my Red gun that was stretched as taunt as it could go so I quit there.

Once that was done I put the screen back on with DVE geo test pattern on. I found the assembly was to far backward. It has play to go front to back on mine a good inch or more. Side to side is not happening. its tight that way. I used the horzontal/vertical adjustments on the main SM screen to adjust. I was having problems on the top. The bottom was fine at about 0% but the top would reach its limit at about 2%. So I had to move the assembly back and forth until I struck a happy middle ground. I did that by measuring the front to make sure the gap was the same on both sides. It does have a little wiggle side to side so I wasn't taking any chances.

I ended up with a very happy 3% or better all the way around. The sides are more like 2%. The Convergence was way shot. I HATE DCAM but I went in. After searching every thread with the mention of DCAM in it I was able to get the cursor to move. I then spent a long time getting convergence spot on. Its the best it has ever been.

I then did the focus job using the cantilever technique (Thanks Mr. Bob). Man did he come up with a good technique to simplify that. (sorry can't divulge it if you dont already know it). I was able to get focus perfect on R?G with Blue close. Blue seems impossible.

Saved everything to ROM. Got out of DCAM and found it had sent my sharpness and tint on User Menu to 100%. Of course I redid the Decoder before I realized that. So I still need to redo that later today before Ican give an official verdict. The pic looks much bigger.

Lordcloud I have pics but I just need the time to upload them today. I know how to attach them but have never figured how to paste them directly in the post. This sounds easier than it was. Took 3 hours last night. Mostly convergence since this was my first real time to get in DCAM and do that.

Regarding the shimming... I'll do the mod and will document the procedure as well as I can; the drawback here is that I will not have time to do it until spring break (middle of March), for tow main reasons, work and set down time.

If you are patient and want to wait to get some pictorial, graphical info ... you know the time frame, otherwise, there is enough information scattered here to do this mod successfully.

If you run into trouble or need to double check your work, you can always have a phone consult with Master Jedi Mr. Bob.

Regarding the shimming... I'll do the mod and will document the procedure as well as I can; the drawback here is that I will not have time to do it until spring break (middle of March), for tow main reasons, work and set down time.

If you are patient and want to wait to get some pictorial, graphical info ... you know the time frame, otherwise, there is enough information scattered here to do this mod successfully.

If you run into trouble or need to double check your work, you can always have a phone consult with Master Jedi Mr. Bob.

Here are my pics.130304

130305

130303

130302

130306

MOD1 is the before geo.
MOD2 is everything I took off t o begin the job
MOD3 & 4 is what the assembly looked like before I began
MOD5 & 6 are the sides of the assembly after I put the original board under the array and put the shims in
MOD7 is the gap at the front of the array after shimming
MOD 8 is the after pic. Like I said I have gotten a little more out of it since.

That brown wire held me back also. It was attached to the red gun and to the circuit board. Didn't want to push my luck further with it.

130318

130316

130317Here are the rest.

The remote may be stuck in DCAM or some other mode. I've ended up in some strange ones, myself. Easiest just to remove the batteries. Otherwise, I just go back and forth between TV - 0 - 1 and TV - MENU - INFO until it works properly.
Magic Focus won't work because your image doesn't reach the sensors. No great loss. No loss at all, frankly, so don't bother.
After making a change in DCAM, you must hit SELECT for the change to stick. If you don't, the setting changes back to what was there before. Hopefully, that is the problem.
Glad it worked out well for you. Enjoy.

Had the joy of the DCAM remote gremlins last night. I was able to get it to work. Doesnt like to get the cursor to move and write to ROM.

Man are we a bunch of busy tweakers. I did the Shim mod last night. I ended up getting those hard to reach side screws with a small crescent wrench. I used the original particle boards that covered the top of the assembly originally as my base. I just lifted up the assembly and sat it back down on them. I then screwed them in place. I then added 1 by 2 blocks in. My total height is 1" 1/4 inches. I wanted to go a little higher but I had a wire connected to my Red gun that was stretched as taunt as it could go so I quit there.

Once that was done I put the screen back on with DVE geo test pattern on. I found the assembly was to far backward. It has play to go front to back on mine a good inch or more. Side to side is not happening. its tight that way. I used the horzontal/vertical adjustments on the main SM screen to adjust. I was having problems on the top. The bottom was fine at about 0% but the top would reach its limit at about 2%. So I had to move the assembly back and forth until I struck a happy middle ground. I did that by measuring the front to make sure the gap was the same on both sides. It does have a little wiggle side to side so I wasn't taking any chances.

I ended up with a very happy 3% or better all the way around. The sides are more like 2%. The Convergence was way shot. I HATE DCAM but I went in. After searching every thread with the mention of DCAM in it I was able to get the cursor to move. I then spent a long time getting convergence spot on. Its the best it has ever been.

I then did the focus job using the cantilever technique (Thanks Mr. Bob). Man did he come up with a good technique to simplify that. (sorry can't divulge it if you dont already know it). I was able to get focus perfect on R?G with Blue close. Blue seems impossible.

Saved everything to ROM. Got out of DCAM and found it had sent my sharpness and tint on User Menu to 100%. Of course I redid the Decoder before I realized that. So I still need to redo that later today before Ican give an official verdict. The pic looks much bigger.

Lordcloud I have pics but I just need the time to upload them today. I know how to attach them but have never figured how to paste them directly in the post. This sounds easier than it was. Took 3 hours last night. Mostly convergence since this was my first real time to get in DCAM and do that.

A little 9/32 inch wrench works really well too. And by really well, I mean your hand is still cramped and you need to have a decent sense of touch, but it works as well as can be expected.

EDIT: Just to clarify: My little wrench is 1/4 on the open side, and 9/32 on the circular end.

Had the joy of the DCAM remote gremlins last night. I was able to get it to work. Doesnt like to get the cursor to move and write to ROM.

If you enter DCAM mode with the little button, the remote pretty much does everything you want (and you'd never know you weren't in that mode, except for not writing the ROM.) Whenever I'm having this issue, I always assume the remote for some reason didn't respond to going into DCAM mode and I reenter the sequences until it will write the ROM.

When I had the TV calibrated last year we disabled magic focus, how can I get it back. Had to move the TV last night and now it's a little fuzzy, and I don't have the patience right now to do the whole 117 pt thing. Eventually I'll get to it, magic focus might help a little until then.

When I had the TV calibrated last year we disabled magic focus, how can I get it back. Had to move the TV last night and now it's a little fuzzy, and I don't have the patience right now to do the whole 117 pt thing. Eventually I'll get to it, magic focus might help a little until then.

Actually, it probably won't. Just wait until you have a chance to do it right.
You don't HAVE to do all 117, you know. :)

i posted just before your message came up... good to hear that the regular magic focus won't work now because i have so little overscan :), correct then that i have no loss. do you mean to hit select after moving the red, green or blue line? or after out of a certain screen?

I was referring to your changes in the service menu which, I thought, was what you were losing when you turned the set off. No?

I then spent a long time getting convergence spot on. Its the best it has ever been.

I then did the focus job using the cantilever technique (Thanks Mr. Bob).

No, any focusing changes should always be done BEFORE convergence, because redoing the focus RESIZES that image. As such it messes up the conv. So refocus THEN do the geo/conv.

Now that you did the refocusing as your last step you need to redo your g/c again.

It prolly looks OK, but you will be stunned at how off it really is, and how much crisper and more depth-producing your image gets when you do things in the proper order!


b

No, any focusing changes should always be done BEFORE convergence, because redoing the focus RESIZES that image. As such it messes up the conv. So refocus THEN do the geo/conv.

Now that you did the refocusing as your last step you need to redo your g/c again.

It prolly looks OK, but you will be stunned at how off it really is, and how much crisper and more depth-producing your image gets when you do things in the proper order!


b

Yea I just figured it out this morning. Its not a lot out but it is a little. Going back for another round of DCAM here soon.

UPDATE- DCAM CONVERGENCE is done again. Blue was still a little out of focus so I did that first. Then the converg. It looks really good. I got a little more out of it after adjusting Hor/Vert. I ended up with 3% on the sides and right at 3% on top, maybe a little over that but its so close I give it to me and go with 3. I'm sure I should have moved the array a little more but was having problems getting it right and finally screwed it in place with 2" screws on the sides. So I had this weird 2% or maybe even a little less on bottom. Looks real good but I haven't thrown in a real good HD source like HD DVD yet. I sure can sit closer. Before my 8 ft was to close. Best viewing was about 10 ft. Now you can sit 6 ft away with no problem. As is I site 8 to 7 depending.

Or buy an Eye One and CalMan (or ColorHCFR) and start the long (fun) DIY routine.
I'd start by going to RGBOUT and changing it to 1, 2, and 3, one at a time, and hitting SERVICE. You'll get one line across the screen. Each of those lines should be about the same thickness and each should just reach the right side. I'm betting that your green line is much larger than the others. Fixing it requires messing with the SCREEN pots, which is VERY risky if you don't know what your doing (but at least you'll have an idea of what's wrong and, if you're thinking of tossing the set anyway, you may not mind messing around).
It can be done.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15434105#post15434105

Uh you really lost me. Honestly I'd love to hire someone to at least LOOK at the set, but no one around here seems willing to make a house call. The only two that popped up is Sears or Geek Squad and I won't let those guys into my house sorry. Anyone know a good person in the Allentown,Pa area?

The remote may be stuck in DCAM or some other mode. I've ended up in some strange ones, myself. Easiest just to remove the batteries. Otherwise, I just go back and forth between TV - 0 - 1 and TV - MENU - INFO until it works properly.
Magic Focus won't work because your image doesn't reach the sensors. No great loss. No loss at all, frankly, so don't bother.
After making a change in DCAM, you must hit SELECT for the change to stick. If you don't, the setting changes back to what was there before. Hopefully, that is the problem.
Glad it worked out well for you. Enjoy.

I had this same thing happen to me when I first tried to get into DCAM. I remember hitting an unknown button on the remote and it happened. The volume was jacked. It also reset all my user settings. I used the exit DCAM process with the remote and was OK. Except for having to readjust my User settings.

Honestly I finally found that very, very little LIGHT blue button on the circuit panel and am just going to use that from now on.

I had this same thing happen to me when I first tried to get into DCAM. I remember hitting an unknown button on the remote and it happened. The volume was jacked. It also reset all my user settings. I used the exit DCAM process with the remote and was OK. Except for having to readjust my User settings.

Honestly I finally found that very, very little LIGHT blue button on the circuit panel and am just going to use that from now on.

TV-ASPECT-9, then STOP.
Easier than taking the front of the set off.

New discovery:
Have a hard time in DCAM with the overlapping grids? Use "raster position" mode (PLAY) to move the color you DON'T want out of the way. Obviously, you don't want to save to ram that way, so move it back when you're done, save to ram, move the other color, and do it again.
Remember, red = 0, blue = INPUTS. PLAY toggles raster mode - you can see a change in the grid pattern in this mode. Pretty obvious, because everything moves. Pretty cool, actually.

TV-ASPECT-9, then STOP.
Easier than taking the front of the set off.

I've opened my set so many times, I don't even have that wood panel screwed in. Just pull the plastic off and good to go:D

I've opened my set so many times, I don't even have that wood panel screwed in. Just pull the plastic off and good to go:D

Me, too. Put it back together when the tech came for the HDMI repair, just in case. Fortunately, remembered where I had put the screws. He couldn't have cared less.

Me, too. Put it back together when the tech came for the HDMI repair, just in case. Fortunately, remembered where I had put the screws. He couldn't have cared less.

I put new batteries in the last time and it still took ten tries to get it to go into DCAM using the procedure you outlined. Once it never did go into DCAM.

I put in HD DVD Skeleton Key and watched a little since the mod. Had watched it a week earlier and wasn't impressed with the look of the HD DVD. This time the PQ had dimension and a sharper look. Not knock you down change but a clear improvement all the same. I dont think its a great HD DVD to begin with but I used it for reference since I had just watched it prior to the mod.

I checked and my pic is centered pretty well on full screen HD but when I have gray bars I have a problem. The pic is centered inside those bars but the whole thing is shifted right. less gray bar to the right. Overscan shows even all the way around on sides. Any guesses??

I checked and my pic is centered pretty well on full screen HD but when I have gray bars I have a problem. The pic is centered inside those bars but the whole thing is shifted right. less gray bar to the right. Overscan shows even all the way around on sides. Any guesses??

O'scan being even all around via DVE is the ideal. Let any other unevenness be what it will. Sometimes it will be more on one side, sometimes on the other.

When true HD is centered that's the ideal, and that's all that counts.


b

All o'scan redux involves pic correction when finished. Curling and angling of the edges and separations of the colors will still happen, tho not nearly as much. Corrections DO have to be made, yes, but not as much as with sm only redux.

You'll get more than just a diff of 1% o'scan. You'll get more of your CRT faces exposed to the view screen. That right there is worth its weight in gold. PLUS higher pixel density -


b


Thanks, Bob!

One more thing to ask - when reducing o'scan via SM or the H/V sizing, such things can & do also lead to the geometry "speedbumps" that scrolling/panning images will show.

Same issue when doing it via shimming? Greeater or worse than when doing this via SM/H-V sizing? Or more just a geo/conv touchup?

Obviously I don't mention focus & whatnot - but know that stuff goes along with such a job.

Actually, it probably won't. Just wait until you have a chance to do it right.
You don't HAVE to do all 117, you know. :)

Did a little last night. But how do you get the two bars to turn vertical, I was only able to adjust the horizontal lines. You hit select once to turn them red, again to turn them blue, I could not get them to turn vertical.

Thanks, Bob!

One more thing to ask - when reducing o'scan via SM or the H/V sizing, such things can & do also lead to the geometry "speedbumps" that scrolling/panning images will show.

Same issue when doing it via shimming? Greeater or worse than when doing this via SM/H-V sizing? Or more just a geo/conv touchup?

Obviously I don't mention focus & whatnot - but know that stuff goes along with such a job.

MUCH less speedbumping in the middle when shimming the array.

On Pioneers the unevenness is there out at the edges that were not exposed before/were hidden, but in the middle it gets affected too when you do it via sm.

Via shimming, the middle would prolly stay just fine, you'd only have to worry out at the edges.

I always have to redo the overall sizing when I redo the geo out at the edges tho, so the middle still gets affected somewhat, but much less markedly when doing the shimming, with geo/conv mopup.


b

Would this be an example of previously unused and therefore lighter phosphor?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/phosphor.jpg

obviously not. Don't see how it can be possible horizontal line 7.5% to 12.5% at the bottom and the rest 7.5% and lower being perfectly fine?

Yea I just figured it out this morning. Its not a lot out but it is a little. Going back for another round of DCAM here soon.

UPDATE- DCAM CONVERGENCE is done again. Blue was still a little out of focus so I did that first. Then the converg. It looks really good. I got a little more out of it after adjusting Hor/Vert. I ended up with 3% on the sides and right at 3% on top, maybe a little over that but its so close I give it to me and go with 3. I'm sure I should have moved the array a little more but was having problems getting it right and finally screwed it in place with 2" screws on the sides. So I had this weird 2% or maybe even a little less on bottom. Looks real good but I haven't thrown in a real good HD source like HD DVD yet. I sure can sit closer. Before my 8 ft was to close. Best viewing was about 10 ft. Now you can sit 6 ft away with no problem. As is I site 8 to 7 depending.
Another successful upgrade! Congrats!
Every successful shimming story tells me I got to do it on my Pioneer. I always wonder why all CRT RPTV sets were not designed that way in the first place with CRT arrays 1-2" closer to the mirror? Is it harder to do geometry/conv after the shimming? Can you still get CRT out without hitting the mirror? What's the catch?

Would this be an example of previously unused and therefore lighter phosphor?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/phosphor.jpg

No thats the camera picking up the scan line on the TV.

Another successful upgrade! Congrats!
Every successful shimming story tells me I got to do it on my Pioneer. I always wonder why all CRT RPTV sets were not designed that way in the first place with CRT arrays 1-2" closer to the mirror? Is it harder to do geometry/conv after the shimming? Can you still get CRT out without hitting the mirror? What's the catch?

I found convergence was out and needed pretty much every point done but not that hard. Geo was very easy. Focus was different because I had never done it before. Getting in and out of DCAM is always my hardest part. I always feel like I'm trying to difuse a bomb and one little slip and its all over.

Did a little last night. But how do you get the two bars to turn vertical, I was only able to adjust the horizontal lines. You hit select once to turn them red, again to turn them blue, I could not get them to turn vertical.

You have to go into DCAM mode to do that. Trust me I tried everything to do vertical on the UM but no. If you go into DCAM following the instructions in this thread it is very easy. Just print them out and follow them. IT makes a huge diff when you have both hors/vert converged.

Would this be an example of previously unused and therefore lighter phosphor?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/phosphor.jpg

Sure looks like it. But Mustang has a good point, I have seen digital cameras do such things. Is this what it looks like on your display, to your eyes? Or is it just there in the cam rendition? And how did it get so offsides, vertically?


b

Sure looks like it. But Mustang has a good point, I have seen digital cameras do such things. Is this what it looks like on your display, to your eyes? Or is it just there in the cam rendition?


b

I double checked and its not there. I remember seeing the line scroll down as I was about to snap the shot. I tried to get it out of the shot as much as I could but it still made it in. I'm not very good at screenshots and the camera is a Casio.

thanks again for all the help Mr. Bob.

Version 2.1 of ColorHCFR is now available.
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

Oh great.....looks like I'm gonna need to try this shimming business.

Will have to get o'scan back to "factory" first, but I have done that before via the service manual instructions & the screen jig.

For those w/ F59s, how do you deal w/ screws in the CRT "tray" whose heads are on the other side (meaning one would need to remove the chassis sides to get to them w/a screwdriver)?

edit: Scratch that - saw that a cresent wrench or a similar "grabbing" tool should do it. Great!!

Totally unrelated, but I saw mention of HD DVD here - for those who are clinging to the dead format, I was in the Sacramento CA Fry's over the wknd. Grabbed 3 movies - 2001, 12 Monkeys & Zodiac for $5 each. Was surprised to see a fairly robust HD DVD section & several endcaps. Boxsets were super cheap, too (BSG Season 1, Heroes S1, Mission Impossible 3-pack).

I do have DVE on HD DVD, as well as Avia on DVD - so plenty of reference materials for oscan/focus work

Kinda ironic that after getting a BluRay player, I'm still buying HD DVDs!

http://www.tigerdave.com/images/testpatterns/1920x1080_overscan.gif

If anyone's looking for a decent 1920*1080 overscan test pattern, that seems like a pretty good one. I've compared it to the DVE overscan pattern that's upconverted to 1080i on my PS3 and they're both centered in the same spot.

I'm gonna do it tonight, so here's hoping everything goes well.

Oh great.....looks like I'm gonna need to try this shimming business.

Will have to get o'scan back to "factory" first, but I have done that before via the service manual instructions & the screen jig.

For those w/ F59s, how do you deal w/ screws in the CRT "tray" whose heads are on the other side (meaning one would need to remove the chassis sides to get to them w/a screwdriver)?

edit: Scratch that - saw that a cresent wrench or a similar "grabbing" tool should do it. Great!!

Totally unrelated, but I saw mention of HD DVD here - for those who are clinging to the dead format, I was in the Sacramento CA Fry's over the wknd. Grabbed 3 movies - 2001, 12 Monkeys & Zodiac for $5 each. Was surprised to see a fairly robust HD DVD section & several endcaps. Boxsets were super cheap, too (BSG Season 1, Heroes S1, Mission Impossible 3-pack).

I do have DVE on HD DVD, as well as Avia on DVD - so plenty of reference materials for oscan/focus work

Kinda ironic that after getting a BluRay player, I'm still buying HD DVDs!

I accidentally ordered The Matrix Trilogy twice, and both are still in their shrink wrap. I would be willing to part with one of them cheap -

I currently have a lot more HD DVDs than BDs, just because of the great sales Michael clued me into. If you can get an HD DVDP used and cheap, it's worth it to start up a library of just those discs.


b

I do have DVE on HD DVD, as well as Avia on DVD - so plenty of reference materials for oscan/focus work


Don't forget about these:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

I accidentally ordered The Matrix Trilogy twice, and both are still in their shrink wrap. I would be willing to part with one of them cheap -

I currently have a lot more HD DVDs than BDs, just because of the great sales Michael clued me into. If you can get an HD DVDP used and cheap, it's worth it to start up a library of just those discs.


b

Always happy to help spend other people's money. :)
Not quite at 200, myself. Just got "Matrix" used from BlockBuster - didn't want the whole trilogy - otherwise I'd consider yours. Put it up in the AVS store.

Most of you guys are much better at modding and tweaking on these sets than myself so If I did the Shimming mod then any of you can. Just remember that array will slide back and forth once shimmed. You have to get it to that perfect spot to get O"Scan right. I really missed by a little. I will open it back up one day and do it again. I'm pretty close so I'm happy for now. Let me know if anyone else runs into that top portion running out of room before the bottom.

BTW that funky line in that pic is definetly the camera. I tried it again last night and reproduced the line scrolling across the screen. If you have all the light on in th eroom and a flash the camera didn't pick it up. Only when it was completly dark.

I have a Fry's in Austin as well and pretty much can pick up about 100 titles or more of HD DVD there. I'll get a BR one day but for now like the selections left on HD DVD.

I mgiht be moving soon, out of state. Rather than trying to move this thing, and the picture could get all screwed up, maybe I could sell it. Anyone know what I could realistically get? In the new place I might not need 51 inches and I see a lot 42 inch sets under $1000.

Did a ton of work on Wednesday and then gave it another go this morning, but I've gone back to the original sitting on the chassis/shimming.

I ended up doing it about 3 different ways (and heights) and two of them were really simple & elegant (I was excited about posting the photos detailing them.)

But fundamentally, I was able to get less overscan keeping it the way I had it (via h and v pots.) I'm sure this has to do with my vertical magnets not being optimal (Mr. Bob gave me enough vague info to get myself into trouble a couple years ago, but even though I have the service manual, I'm not touching those.)

Here's the biggest problem in a nutshell: If I go and optimize the overscan using the HDMI out on my PS3 I can get everything good. I'm able to use the Vertical adjustment in the service menu to push the picture down. But when I switch to component (cable, pc, etc), there is a significant black border on the bottom of the screen. And I don't know if it's just my tv, or everyone's, but I can not adjust vertical placement on the components (1080i). I realize there's a H with regards to those, but that only applies changes to horizonal for me. For horizontal ajustment, one works with 1080i component and the other controls 1080i HDMI. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to vertical. I can either adjust the HDMI, or it moves nothing.

So to get the picture moved down on my component settings, I have to introduce significant overscan to push it down. As I said, this is a magnet issue, but I don't care. I'm leaving it alone and not wasting any more time:) I still need to clean up my DCAM today after all the screwing around.

The only good thing about the whole process, when I had the screen off, I pulled off all the wires, reflective sensors, and white cable ties. Now my screen is totally black to the mirror.

Did a ton of work on Wednesday and then gave it another go this morning, but I've gone back to the original sitting on the chassis/shimming.

I ended up doing it about 3 different ways (and heights) and two of them were really simple & elegant (I was excited about posting the photos detailing them.)

But fundamentally, I was able to get less overscan keeping it the way I had it (via h and v pots.) I'm sure this has to do with my vertical magnets not being optimal (Mr. Bob gave me enough vague info to get myself into trouble a couple years ago, but even though I have the service manual, I'm not touching those.)

Here's the biggest problem in a nutshell: If I go and optimize the overscan using the HDMI out on my PS3 I can get everything good. I'm able to use the Vertical adjustment in the service menu to push the picture down. But when I switch to component (cable, pc, etc), there is a significant black border on the bottom of the screen. And I don't know if it's just my tv, or everyone's, but I can not adjust vertical placement on the components (1080i). I realize there's a H with regards to those, but that only applies changes to horizonal for me. For horizontal ajustment, one works with 1080i component and the other controls 1080i HDMI. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to vertical. I can either adjust the HDMI, or it moves nothing.

So to get the picture moved down on my component settings, I have to introduce significant overscan to push it down. As I said, this is a magnet issue, but I don't care. I'm leaving it alone and not wasting any more time:) I still need to clean up my DCAM today after all the screwing around.

The only good thing about the whole process, when I had the screen off, I pulled off all the wires, reflective sensors, and white cable ties. Now my screen is totally black to the mirror.

Sorry to hear it didn't work. I guess that is not an issue for me because I only use HDMI for everything via a switcher unit. I dont run my computer thru the set for anything. The only issue so far has been the one I described before which is similar to what you have. My bottom has significant more adjustment in it than the top. I can dial the bottom out to 0% but the top bottoms out at 3% and then its that black "edge of the universe" border. I firmly believe that is created by where I have the array sitting. I dont feel like opening it up right now for that and redo focus.geo/converg just for that. I will in the future but not right now.

With all that said my PQ is outstanding. Good HD channels and HD DVD movies that had OK dimension now have much more. The pic seems more detailed. I attribute that to the increase in resolution from increased pixel density. Even my overly skeptical wife sees a tighter/sharper pic now. Plus the optimal range of viewing moved closer. I know a layman who snaps up the LCD at Best Buy and burns contrast at 100% may not see these differences but I do.

If your pic rocked before though who cares. It sounds like you already had a pic every bit as good as the best so what does it matter. Most of this comes down to preference any way. My set even with this mod still cant catch some of the guys on this thread but I love the way it looks right now. Good Night and Good Luck.

Did a ton of work on Wednesday and then gave it another go this morning, but I've gone back to the original sitting on the chassis/shimming.

I ended up doing it about 3 different ways (and heights) and two of them were really simple & elegant (I was excited about posting the photos detailing them.)

But fundamentally, I was able to get less overscan keeping it the way I had it (via h and v pots.) I'm sure this has to do with my vertical magnets not being optimal (Mr. Bob gave me enough vague info to get myself into trouble a couple years ago, but even though I have the service manual, I'm not touching those.)

Here's the biggest problem in a nutshell: If I go and optimize the overscan using the HDMI out on my PS3 I can get everything good. I'm able to use the Vertical adjustment in the service menu to push the picture down. But when I switch to component (cable, pc, etc), there is a significant black border on the bottom of the screen. And I don't know if it's just my tv, or everyone's, but I can not adjust vertical placement on the components (1080i). I realize there's a H with regards to those, but that only applies changes to horizonal for me. For horizontal ajustment, one works with 1080i component and the other controls 1080i HDMI. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to vertical. I can either adjust the HDMI, or it moves nothing.

So to get the picture moved down on my component settings, I have to introduce significant overscan to push it down. As I said, this is a magnet issue, but I don't care. I'm leaving it alone and not wasting any more time:) I still need to clean up my DCAM today after all the screwing around.

The only good thing about the whole process, when I had the screen off, I pulled off all the wires, reflective sensors, and white cable ties. Now my screen is totally black to the mirror.

If you have changed your positioning OR your o'scan a few years ago, it's important not to change it again or the footprint may show, out at the edges. If you reduce your o'scan OR RESTORE IT to its original sizing, this could occur, including if you reposition it in any way, in any direction. Therefore you really don't want to touch your magnet rings again anyway, by now.

However, the positioning of your array is what can allow you to position your image correctly vertically as to how it hits your viewscreen. Push or pull the array forward or backwards. Get it right for component that way, then use the sm positioning for PS3.

I use 2 rubber doorstop wedges to do the vertical positioning on my array, as it is slanted and the array is friggin' heavy! (9" guns, remember)

Once positioned correctly, the elongated bolts replacing the regular and much shorter bolts take over and keep it solidified. But so far I have left the doorstops in place anyway, just for safekeeping. They are dark brown and not invasive to the internal reflections scene, but could also be Sharpie'd black...


b

Yeah, Mr. Bob, I was sitting here this morning and started thinking about this thing again and realizing I had to have missed something. When I went back in another time, I realized if I slid the chassis all the way backwards (till it hits the cutout) and placed a penny under the boards in the front section, I'm able to center the vertical properly (I'm using 1.5 inch oak boards bought from Lowes.)

I've changed the overscan (to blow the picture back up) and there's no issues of wear that I can see. Contrast has been set at 20 since the beginning and I don't really use the tv that many hours a day (a couple).

The geometry obviously needs to be redone. Seem to have thrown out my string, so I need to go buy some more. Went in the DCAM and did a quick touchup so things we atleast aligned with each other.

So I have to redo that, the greyscale, and the color. Obviously redid optical and mechanical refocus already. Oh, and my lens hood is in need of a severe trimming. I've cut it so much, I think I'm just gonna do a new one.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't redo it knowing the timesunk I've created for myself. But I'm sure I'm gonna be very pleased when it's finally done.

EDIT: So now that I've had a little while to relax and look at it, there is about a 1 inch band on both sides that is lighter:( If you didn't know it was there, I'm sure you wouldn't even notice it. And it's really only noticeable when there's a white screen. So now I'm torn. I think it's definitely gonna be a real improvement. And I was just playing a couple of games of Wipeout and my eyes were glued on the center of the screen (sides were totally peripheral vision). So I guess I'm just gonna leave it as is for a couple of days to see how noticeable it is during routine viewing.

Here's the biggest problem in a nutshell: If I go and optimize the overscan using the HDMI out on my PS3 I can get everything good. I'm able to use the Vertical adjustment in the service menu to push the picture down. But when I switch to component (cable, pc, etc), there is a significant black border on the bottom of the screen. And I don't know if it's just my tv, or everyone's, but I can not adjust vertical placement on the components (1080i). I realize there's a H with regards to those, but that only applies changes to horizonal for me. For horizontal ajustment, one works with 1080i component and the other controls 1080i HDMI. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to vertical. I can either adjust the HDMI, or it moves nothing.


Sorry no one else got back to you (or you didn't catch it elsewhere). Vertical is, obviously ;), under the FC4 menu. Scroll up two to VPOSI-0.
There you go. Enjoy.

If your pic rocked before though who cares. It sounds like you already had a pic every bit as good as the best so what does it matter. Most of this comes down to preference any way. My set even with this mod still cant catch some of the guys on this thread but I love the way it looks right now. Good Night and Good Luck.

Sure you can. Just do the REST of it! :D

So after owning my 51F500 since May 2003 and following this thread since (and others) since 2005, I decided this weekend it was about time I gave my coveted Hitachi RPHDTV a "good scrubbing"!

I was very pleased to find that after a quick 8 screws I was looking at my dusty, film laden mirror and lenses for the first time. It was a pleasant surprise to find the MF sensors all mounted to the chassis rather than the screen (as was warned to watch for in this thread).

With flashlight in hand, a quick inspection showed my 5+ years of neglect, though, another nice surprise was that the vast majority of wood surfaces were already painted black.

Following the recommendations and methods identified within this thread, I started with the mirror using Windex and plain white paper-towels. After 7 passes, I finally had a clean "like glass" shine, using my flash light to test, and was able to move on to my lenses. Following the wet-wipe-once rule, I found myself terrified to apply any pressure and the possibility of letting excess fluid remain on the lens, but was amazed at the amount of dirt that each single pull was taking up. My lenses now sparkle. (EDIT: Sadly I was not using the Ammonia-free Windex on my plastic lenses, which apparently can damage them over time. Obviously that is something that I missed during my research and I will not use it again. Thanks again Mr. Bob.)

Step three was the darkening of all (much) that was shiny and could reflect light. I was going to use flat black felt cloth, but much to my dismay, all of the craft and supply stores were out of stock, so, I spent $10 CND on some flat black felt cardboard stuff. I have not seen anyone recommend this here, but as of today, I do. It was exceptionally easy to manipulate, easy to use for a variety of situations, and just looks great. I was able to cut strips, sheets, 3d forms and in the end I figure I got 85% of the shiny stuff covered with only using half of what I bought. If I had taken a bit more time, the mods may even have looked like they were there by factory design.

The results: Stunning. Why I didn't do this 3 years ago, I don't know. My before and after "screen shot" photos do not do the change justice but what my eyes see does. The interior cabinet before and after pictures do show the difference well (at 10 megapixel).

So my thanks have to go out to all that have shared their expertise (Mr. Bob) and to all that have shared their experience, photos and screen shots. If anyone would like to see my before, during and after photo's, please let me know and I will post.

One curious thing came out of my adventures, that I hope someone can shed some light on. The red lens has a 1/4 inch wide black piece of tape that runs vertically from top to bottom on the lens, placed about 1/4 of the way across the lens (again I have photo if required). Any one know what this is for? My theory is that it is an axis boundary and used for MF? Doesn't seem to detract from the picture quality!

Edit: LastButNotLeast recommended that I post photos (yeah!) so here they are with description:

131111
The inside!

131112
The dirty lenses!

131113
The clean lenses! (notice the hair)

131114
The shiny insides!

131115
The not-so-shiny insides! (WINK: yes, that is a center speaker of a 7.1 reference SVS speaker system off a Denon receiver.)

One curious thing came out of my adventures, that I hope someone can shed some light on. The red lens has a 1/4 inch black piece of tape that runs vertically from top to bottom on the lens, placed about 1/4 of the way across the lens (again I have photo if required). Any one know what this is for? My theory is that it is an axis boundary and used for MF? Doesn't seem to detract from the picture quality!

Congratulations. By all means, post the photos!
Your red lens has lens striping, a means of evening the color across the screen. Interesting that it came from the factory that way. I've tried doing it myself, and just gave up after having pieces of tape going every-which-way over the lenses. Leave it there.

If anyone is even remotely interested, I'm thinking I'm gonna leave the set with the shimming. Even if I pause the picture, the side "stripes" are invisible in over 80 percent of the scenes. It's just when really bright/white scenes are playing and you stare at the sides that you can barely notice it.

Sorry no one else got back to you (or you didn't catch it elsewhere). Vertical is, obviously ;), under the FC4 menu. Scroll up two to VPOSI-0.
There you go. Enjoy.

What a weird place to put it. Gonna put that info in my notes. And next time I open the case I'll take out the pennies and adjust with that. Thanks.

EDIT: On second thought, I'll take them out tomorrow. If they're gonna affect the geometry, best to do before the heavy lifting.

If anyone is even remotely interested, I'm thinking I'm gonna leave the set with the shimming. Even if I pause the picture, the side "stripes" are invisible in over 80 percent of the scenes. It's just when really bright/white scenes are playing and you stare at the sides that you can barely notice it.



What a weird place to put it. Gonna put that info in my notes. And next time I open the case I'll take out the pennies and adjust with that. Thanks.

EDIT: On second thought, I'll take them out tomorrow. If they're gonna affect the geometry, best to do before the heavy lifting.

I tried that setting in FC4. It didn't seem to adjust anything:confused:

Also I adjusted my focus using the adjustments on the lens assembly for the separate colors. The ones with the wing nuts. YOu referred to optical and mechanical. Is there something I missed?? I am also thinking about my lense hood. I did not cut down the size after the shimming. I'm pretty sure it didn't need it. Did anyone else have to cut it down or was it fine as is.

I tried that setting in FC4. It didn't seem to adjust anything:confused:

Also I adjusted my focus using the adjustments on the lens assembly for the separate colors. The ones with the wing nuts. YOu referred to optical and mechanical. Is there something I missed?? I am also thinking about my lense hood. I did not cut down the size after the shimming. I'm pretty sure it didn't need it. Did anyone else have to cut it down or was it fine as is.

Looks like it's input-dependent. HDMI is VDPOS-0; VPOSI-0 was for TV. Hope there isn't another for component (don't have the time or energy to look tonight).
You did the mechanical focus (wingnuts on lens assembly). Focus block is for electrostatic focus. Careful not to touch the "screen" pots (putting tape over them is a wise precaution, just don't put any pressure on them - yes, they're THAT sensitive).
Keep up the good work.

continued from last post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15642753#post15642753

Pictures that kinda show before and after cleaning of a 2003 Hitachi 51f500:

Before...
131116

After..
131119

Before...
131118

After...
131117

Notice black stripe...
131121

continued from last post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15642753#post15642753

Pictures that kinda show before and after cleaning of a 2003 Hitachi 51f500:

Before...
131116

After..
131119

Before...
131118

After...
131117

Notice black stripe...
131121

I have the 51F59a and the insides are much different than yours. In some respects your insides look much cleaner and better organized. I will say that on my set they cleared out all that wiring and circuit boards from around the lense assembly. Those pics look great. Those are pretty darn good screen shots.

Looks like it's input-dependent. HDMI is VDPOS-0; VPOSI-0 was for TV. Hope there isn't another for component (don't have the time or energy to look tonight).
You did the mechanical focus (wingnuts on lens assembly). Focus block is for electrostatic focus. Careful not to touch the "screen" pots (putting tape over them is a wise precaution, just don't put any pressure on them - yes, they're THAT sensitive).
Keep up the good work.

I'll have to look up what electrostatic focus means. Thanks on the vertical info. I'll see what that does tomorrow.

I'm definitely gonna keep it this way. My 80 percent figure was actually low. Watched the Heat basketball game in high-def last night and even though the screen was filled with yellow hardwood all game, it's wasn't even visible on that. It's basically white scenes (ideally paused and focusing on) where the side bands are slightly off color.

I tried that setting in FC4. It didn't seem to adjust anything:confused:

Also I adjusted my focus using the adjustments on the lens assembly for the separate colors. The ones with the wing nuts. YOu referred to optical and mechanical. Is there something I missed?? I am also thinking about my lense hood. I did not cut down the size after the shimming. I'm pretty sure it didn't need it. Did anyone else have to cut it down or was it fine as is.

Well, I moved the chassis back quite a ways and I elevated it 1.5 inches. My previous lens hood was at the absolute perfect height and measured so it was as high as it could get without affecting the projection of the image from the mirror to the screen. With the new placement, it was blocking the image projection from the mirror by a couple inches on the bottom of the screen.

Didn't you say you only use HDMI? Vertical placement can be changed by the main menu in the service menu. I haven't played with my set yet, but I assumed that FC4 changed the vertical placement when using 1080i components.

Electro focus may or may not be needed, but it's so easy for me to do, I just wanted to make sure it was perfect. As others have stated, though, make sure you don't TOUCH the trim buttons.

Also I adjusted my focus using the adjustments on the lens assembly for the separate colors. The ones with the wing nuts. YOu referred to optical and mechanical. Is there something I missed??

Optical = mechanical. E'static is at the focus block trimpots. Follow Michael's lead on that one -


b

EDIT: So now that I've had a little while to relax and look at it, there is about a 1 inch band on both sides that is lighter:( If you didn't know it was there, I'm sure you wouldn't even notice it. And it's really only noticeable when there's a white screen. So now I'm torn.

Prolly shouldn't pop your bubble, but I am surprised you haven't seen the same thing just a little smaller, at t/b. ALL sides are affected by that age footprint, which of course is inevitable on all phosphor based tech.

Luckily it's only really evident on a full white screen, like a fade to white, which fortunately is rare.


b

Following the recommendations and methods identified within this thread, I started with the mirror using windex and plain white paper-towels. After 7 passes, I finally had a clean "like glass" shine, using my flash light to test, and was able to move on to my lenses.

Hope it was the Windex version WITHOUT ammonia. Ammonia is also corrosive to plastic lenses, turns out, so should not be used repeatedly. You can prolly get away with it once or twice, but I wouldn't push it, DEFINITELY would not use it year after year, for regular optics cleanings...



b

So after owning my 51F500 since May 2003 and following this thread since (and others) since 2005, I decided this weekend it was about time I gave my coveted Hitachi RPHDTV a "good scrubbing"!

...



Hope you don't mind, but I am going to link your post here over at my "Don't Dump..." thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15646842&posted=1#post15646842

;)


b

I'm definitely gonna keep it this way. My 80 percent figure was actually low. Watched the Heat basketball game in high-def last night and even though the screen was filled with yellow hardwood all game, it's wasn't even visible on that. It's basically white scenes (ideally paused and focusing on) where the side bands are slightly off color.



Well, I moved the chassis back quite a ways and I elevated it 1.5 inches. My previous lens hood was at the absolute perfect height and measured so it was as high as it could get without affecting the projection of the image from the mirror to the screen. With the new placement, it was blocking the image projection from the mirror by a couple inches on the bottom of the screen.

Didn't you say you only use HDMI? Vertical placement can be changed by the main menu in the service menu. I haven't played with my set yet, but I assumed that FC4 changed the vertical placement when using 1080i components.

Electro focus may or may not be needed, but it's so easy for me to do, I just wanted to make sure it was perfect. As others have stated, though, make sure you don't TOUCH the trim buttons.

I'll open it up again and see if the hood is in the way. I dont think it is.

If it's really in the way, you'll see a shadow across the screen when viewing. Especially when it's white. It'll just be this black shadow blocking out the sun.

If it's only clipping a little here and there, a convergence grid will have random discoloration on the bottom squares.

I'm sure you're okay, because it's really hard to not notice when it's interfering with the picture.

Looks like it's input-dependent. HDMI is VDPOS-0; VPOSI-0 was for TV. Hope there isn't another for component (don't have the time or energy to look tonight).

Turns out, even with time and energy, I can't find a way to adjust vertical position of component input. Very strange.

If it's really in the way, you'll see a shadow across the screen when viewing. Especially when it's white. It'll just be this black shadow blocking out the sun.

If it's only clipping a little here and there, a convergence grid will have random discoloration on the bottom squares.

I'm sure you're okay, because it's really hard to not notice when it's interfering with the picture.

Yea..I'm good. Thanks! I'm curious to know where you ended up on geo and what your pics improvements were if any. BTW Michael I couldnt figure that out either. Lucky as mentioned on this page, HDMI vertical can be adjusted on the main SM page. I really want to shoot some camera shots but my camera kinda s#*ks.

Hope it was the Windex version WITHOUT ammonia. Ammonia is also corrosive to plastic lenses, turns out, so should not be used repeatedly. You can prolly get away with it once or twice, but I wouldn't push it, DEFINITELY would not use it year after year, for regular optics cleanings...

b

Sadly it was not. Thanks for identifying this. I will make sure to use a cleaner without Ammonia. I have also added an edit to my post.

Hope you don't mind, but I am going to link your post here over at my "Don't Dump..." thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15646842&posted=1#post15646842

;)


b

Sounds good. I added an edit about the Ammonia issue to show others the error of my ways.

Please do post a link in your "Don't Dump..." thread as I have touted the same for years.

:D

Has anyone ever looked at their tv while laying on their couch below axis and noticed what I view as superior picture quality; far more stable looking picture, less contrast, and far more film like with more stable colors?

I do all the time. Most Digital displays while nice I noticed the difference off the bat. Only the top end models tend not to assualt my eyes. Don't know what im going to do when my TV dies just hope its a way off.

I do admit I love my digital projector but used a grey screen for deeper colors.

Has anyone ever looked at their tv while laying on their couch below axis and noticed what I view as superior picture quality; far more stable looking picture, less contrast, and far more film like with more stable colors?

Actually, no. :)
But it's a 57", so it may be closer to eye level than yours (?).
Mr. Bob reports using a 2 by 4 under the rear wheels of his monster because he sits so close that the projection would be over his head, otherwise. You may want to try (carefully) blocks under the front wheels to raise it up a little. The sweet spot should be aimed right at you (unless you happen to spend more time lying down ;)).

Good morning. My first post on this thread. After reading for quite a while now I would like to adjust overscan. I am unable to locate the trimpots on the board with the blue reset button. The tv is a Hitachi 51f510. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Actually, no. :)
But it's a 57", so it may be closer to eye level than yours (?).
Mr. Bob reports using a 2 by 4 under the rear wheels of his monster because he sits so close that the projection would be over his head, otherwise. You may want to try (carefully) blocks under the front wheels to raise it up a little. The sweet spot should be aimed right at you (unless you happen to spend more time lying down ;)).

This can be easily tested by simply raising yourself straight up a foot from your sitting position, so your eyes are that much higher. If your pic gets brighter in the middle at that raised position, the level where the pic is brightest in the middle is where the sweet spot hits you, and you should angle your set down in that case, to where it hits you properly while comfortably seated and veiwing.


Thanks, Michael -

;)


b

Good morning. My first post on this thread. After reading for quite a while now I would like to adjust overscan. I am unable to locate the trimpots on the board with the blue reset button. The tv is a Hitachi 51f510. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

It's nowhere near as easy as you make it sound. As soon as you reduce the sizing via those 2 pots - or even by the shimming method, which is the better method - your picture goes to ****. It has to be fully reworked, from the ground up, to get it right again at that reduced size.

You sure you want to proceed, without some training first?


b

Sorry I wasn'y trying to make it seem easy. I have been studying these posts for a year or more and have made most of the suggested tweaks in sm. Just decided it was time to try to adjust the overscan. I have cleaned the mirror and crts per your instructions a few days ago and the improvement was amazing. While i had the screen off I pulled the panel underneath and found the blue reset but found no trimpots. Would you advise adjusting overscan by sm first?

Sorry I wasn'y trying to make it seem easy. I have been studying these posts for a year or more and have made most of the suggested tweaks in sm. Just decided it was time to try to adjust the overscan. I have cleaned the mirror and crts per your instructions a few days ago and the improvement was amazing. While i had the screen off I pulled the panel underneath and found the blue reset but found no trimpots. Would you advise adjusting overscan by sm first?

Gotta do it one way or the other. If you do it by sm and want to change your mind later, you can't because by that time the phosphor footprint woulda set in, and become visible out at the edges. Not to mention having to restore your original sizing via sm - reversing all you did to get it to work the first time, via sm only, which is a MAJOR doubling of the original PITA - to make the shimming process happen properly and take proper advantage of what it offers, which is showing more of your CRT screen faces.

Gotta decide before you start as to which way to go.


Glad you liked the difference the optics cleaning makes! It really is amazing, eh?

;)

b

Ok I gotcha. Think I will mull this one over a little more. Thanks for the the input!

Ok I gotcha. Think I will mull this one over a little more. Thanks for the the input!

;)

Ok I gotcha. Think I will mull this one over a little more. Thanks for the the input!

Its a lot of work. FOCUS,GEO, and Convergence all have to be done. THat calls for major DCAM work. Not to mention the shimming (which is the smartest way to go). I will say that my pic has improved a lot.

the only problem with my picture is that there is a little to much red in it but that my pic is amazing

the only problem with my picture is that there is a little to much red in it but that my pic is amazing

Do a search on red push or COLORG (for Hits F59s) and you can pretty much eliminate your problem. These sets are capable of a near to perfect picture, very acceptable for videophiles.

i just got a ps3 and it looks nice does anyone have setting for the ps3 on there tv


thank you

i just got a ps3 and it looks nice does anyone have setting for the ps3 on there tv


thank you

Adjust it the same way you have before. Calibration disc here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496
Pick the one that will play on your PS3.
Enjoy.

i dont have a windows computer all i have is a mac

i dont have a windows computer all i have is a mac

Me, too, in which I consider myself very fortunate.
Download the .7z version of the file you need. If you don't have something that can decompress it, go to versiontracker.com and search for "The Unarchiver." Once you have the decompressed .iso file, launch Disk Utility, file -> open disk image. It will show up at the bottom of the list on the left. Select it and click on "burn." Burn it to a DVD-R or DVD-RW.

Ok, so I have the 65 incheer all installed, and calibrated, and here are my impressions.

Basically, if you have a 51 inch model, time to upgrade. I can't go back to a set smaller than this, hjaving lived with it. Bigger isn't always better, but in the case of a television set, it probably is. You can see SO MUCH MORE on this set, it really is a revelation. Grain is now much more in your face and clearer(which contrary to popular thought, is a very very good thing), objects to the sides of the screen are larger and so of course more promininent.

Good calibration is now far more important than before because flaws are so much easier to see. Spot on convergence is paramount. With this set I also have far less lens flaring, which is a boon.

I haven't done the shimming and I'm not sure if I will, I may look into it this weekend. The 65 incher is different that the 51, behind the speakers is just a box. I'm not sure how to get to all the screws. But I can sit closer to this set and it truly looks like film to my eyes. I really can't be happier.

If anyone with a 51 inch set has the opportunity to go bigger, by all means jump on it.

Ok, so I have the 65 incheer all installed, and calibrated, and here are my impressions.

Basically, if you have a 51 inch model, time to upgrade. I can't go back to a set smaller than this, hjaving lived with it. Bigger isn't always better, but in the case of a television set, it probably is. You can see SO MUCH MORE on this set, it really is a revelation. Grain is now much more in your face and clearer(which contrary to popular thought, is a very very good thing), objects to the sides of the screen are larger and so of course more promininent.

Good calibration is now far more important than before because flaws are so much easier to see. Spot on convergence is paramount. With this set I also have far less lens flaring, which is a boon.

I haven't done the shimming and I'm not sure if I will, I may look into it this weekend. The 65 incher is different that the 51, behind the speakers is just a box. I'm not sure how to get to all the screws. But I can sit closer to this set and it truly looks like film to my eyes. I really can't be happier.

If anyone with a 51 inch set has the opportunity to go bigger, by all means jump on it.

Only if I want a divorce. My wife is constantly trying to get me to get a flat panel that would look better on the wall. The room I have the set in would look terrible with a set bigger than what I have. IF I had a huge room I would do it but as is dont have the space. I wonder what your 51 looks like side by side to that one. Just to see what your tweaks and mods did for the 51 with a comparison to go by.

Anyway sounds great. Wish I had the room cause I would get one.

Lordcloud -

Funny you should mention size right now! Splicer owns a 51" Tosh and swears by its size, compared to 65"ers.

This was just printed over at the Don't Dump... thread -

As I wrote...These are my Personal feelings and my opinion only...I did say that 7" guns will work...But for you to say that a 7" gun on a 65" screen will be as good as a 9" gun on a 65" screen...to me...is ludicrous... Therefore while a 9" gun is optimal for a 65" and larger screen...a 7" gun is optimal on a 57" and smaller screen...Toshiba or any other brand...

Now these opinions came from seeing a vast multitude of CRT HD RPTV as well as non HD CRT RPTV...I agree that 7" guns WILL and DO work...But I dis-agree that they are good enough to properly watch programming...I remember the shot you speak of very well...I believe I told you this before...and this is nothing personal...but I just don't feel that picture is all that great...Not bad by any means...but not great...Maybe it's the camera...but I have seen screen shots that REALLY blew me away in the screen shot thread...Again...maybe it's the camera...

65" I feel is pushing the 7" to its limit and that isn't good IN MY OPINION...There needs to be some headroom and having it tweaked to with-in an inch of its life...just doesn't leave much headroom now does it???;)

I respectfully agree to disagree with you here Bob...

"To within an inch of its life" simply means calibrating it structurally to be the best it can be. And yes ESP. for this discussion all pix and sets talked about should be maxed out in their capacities, to even enter into our discussion.

"But for you to say that a 7" gun on a 65" screen will be as good as a 9" gun on a 65" screen...to me...is ludicrous..."

Granted. I would not say that. I said 7" is no slouch either. I definitely see the difference. But would just anybody? Only if both examples are completely maxed out in terms of their calibration of the structure, and sometimes not even then, as very few ordinary veiwers have the practiced eye that you and I have. And if neither set in question is calibrated, but just the inherently sloppy factory job done with most CRT RPTVs OOB, no I don't think many people would even notice the difference.

I have done work on a 7" gun Cine 7 Barco, pj'ing onto a 9' screen, and while it would obviously look much better with 9" guns, it did an entirely respectable job on that screen as long as you sat far back enough. NOT directly under the pj!

I have done extensive work on the 12" gun Barco, pj'ing onto an 8' screen, and at that level there's really no difference between that model and one with 8" guns.

Here's the image in question, shot on 35mm film from my 65" Panny with the 7" guns. Would it look better with 9" guns? Of course! But that was not an option on this unit, nor even on this brand.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8770/imageperfectioncomcsiimem7.jpg[/URL]


Tho granted the colorations are not ideal, and I agree with you there, what we are talking about is the STRUCTURE, if we're comparing 7" guns to 9" guns. If it's too dark, kick up the br a notch or 3, to fill in the shadow detail. Won't change the crispness any, which is the real basis of our conversation.

I think that the Wm. Peterson image structure is magnificent, and entirely acceptable for a 7" gun app, even when sitting 8' back from its screen, which very few people can do from their 65" sets when they are uncalibrated. They usually have to sit a lot farther back, eyes to screen. I don't, and the size when you're only 8' back is also spectactular. The shot itself was taken at 6', which is one of the reasons the colorations are not ideal. But that's what the pic looked like to the camera's lens at 6' back. Its image STRUCTURE is magnificent IMHO, and nobody does HD better than Panasonic.

Could I get what you watch to look every bit as good on the 65" version of Tosh, as it looks on your 51" version? Absolutely! And I think we will continue to agree to disagree on this!

:D


b





This one is from Owen, on his fully calibrated 57" Hitachi, with the 7" guns. Could I make a 65" version of Hitachi with 7" guns look just as good? Absolutely!

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6955/owenpicofgirlonhishitpv1.jpg[/URL]


You and I may continue to disagree on these things, but I want those owning these CRT sets out there to see these pix and make up their own minds.

If you owners out there who own these magnificent CRT triple-gun sets see my point, get your set calibrated and find a level of luxury viewing you don't even presently know exists! See my website for more info -

;)

b

If you owners out there who own these magnificent CRT triple-gun sets see my point, get your set calibrated and find a level of luxury viewing you don't even presently know exists!
Anyone else lined up in the Chicago area yet? :)

I just had my Dish upgraded to HD DVR from the regular HD receiver. THis new receiver, VIP722 really does a better job on SD. The channels I had never looked great but they do now. HD is about the same. I really haven't had the time to look hard as the wife kidnapped the TV tonight. It has the dual tuner so I can run another set in the other room off of it. I have 4 hard wired plus that 1. Whole thing was a free upgrade with 2 year contract. Since I have had Dish for 8 years I figure its not a big deal to sign up for 2 more.

Anyone else lined up in the Chicago area yet? :)

I've had a couple of casual inquiries. You want to organize a tour for your area there?

I'd be glad to come over for it -

;)

b

Whole thing was a free upgrade with 2 year contract. Since I have had Dish for 8 years I figure its not a big deal to sign up for 2 more.

Free upgrade??? My VIP 622 cost me $699!

I do love Dish, tho, am very happy with it. Except for the menu and guide graphics, which I GUARANTY you, will damage your CRT triple gun set after awhile, if you spend time on them without turning DOWN your contrast and brightness.

I have SEEN this damage - esp. the all white "dish" logo at the top left corner - and it's not pretty and totally incurable without triple-gun CRT replacement. They run 100% Torch Mode graphics, and I don't have time to keep chasing them down about it, as they have been completely unresponsive to my many pleas to stop this very dangerous practice of theirs. Not dangerous to them in the least, of course. Dangerous to US.

Yer on yer own, but I would HEARTILY recommend turning down your contrast at the very least anytime you want to be spending more than 30 seconds with those Dish graphics on your screen. I turn down both the contrast AND the brightness.


b

Wouldn't he just work with the over/under scan dials to fill the picture after this? That link of Owen's shimming job is a 51-inch Hitachi and he states he's using 70mm (2.75 inches).

I believe Owen's was a 57", not a 51".


b

Free upgrade??? My VIP 622 cost me $699!

I do love Dish, tho, am very happy with it. Except for the menu and guide graphics, which I GUARANTY you, will damage your CRT triple gun set after awhile, if you spend time on them without turning DOWN your contrast and brightness.

I have SEEN this damage - esp. the all white "dish" logo at the top left corner - and it's not pretty and totally incurable without triple-gun CRT replacement. They run 100% Torch Mode graphics, and I don't have time to keep chasing them down about it, as they have been completely unresponsive to my many pleas to stop this very dangerous practice of theirs. Not dangerous to them in the least, of course. Dangerous to US.

Yer on yer own, but I would HEARTILY recommend turning down your contrast at the very least anytime you want to be spending more than 30 seconds with those Dish graphics on your screen. I turn down both the contrast AND the brightness.


b

I run contrast at 28% and dont stay in the menu items at all but do spend a little more than 30 seconds in the guide. I haven't seen a prob since I dont leave it in guide and walk away. I have called them twice about this and they could care less.

I believe Owen's was a 57", not a 51".


b

I ended up with 1.25 inches of shimming on a 51".

I've had a couple of casual inquiries. You want to organize a tour for your area there?

I'd be glad to come over for it -

;)

b

Depending on the cost I may be interested in getting in on this if you could make it to the Peoria area. (I have 3 Hitachi RP-CRTs).

I ended up with 1.25 inches of shimming on a 51".

So what did you use to stick under the assembly, just 1.25" blocks of wood? How many did you need?

I'm thinking of trying this after awhile since you've seemed to have some success. How bad did it throw your geometry off?

So what did you use to stick under the assembly, just 1.25" blocks of wood? How many did you need?

I'm thinking of trying this after awhile since you've seemed to have some success. How bad did it throw your geometry off?

On my 51" set the assembly originally sits on the particle board frame. Then two strips of particle board are put on top of the assembly on both sides. All I did was move the assembly on top of them at first and screwed them down on the far sides. I then took a 2" by 1" stake and cut it into four 3" pieces. I lifted the assembly and put those under the assembly and on top of the original particle board strips. That size fits perfectly under the edges of the assembly. You really dont need to screw them down because of the weight of the whole thing but I did anyway. That gave me 1.25". Really I could have taken it to 1.50 or a little more but I was playing it safe.

You will have to totally rework convergence, and focus. All I did on Geo was resize the image using the SM horz/vert settings. ITs the ones in the up front pages when you first go into the SM not in TA1360. The Mod was a 45 m in job. Beware of the screws on the sides. You have to take the speakers out to get to them. Use a small open end wrench, mine was a 7 metric, or a very small crescent wrench. Some 51" sets dont have them. They are the hardest part of the job. THe reworking of the image took 2 hours though.

As far as tangible results go I'm happy. My PQ is more detailed. The image looks sharper. I watched a HD DVD right before the mod and the same one right after. More sharpness of images. It wont knock you down and make you think you bought a new set but you will notice. Best thing is if you dont like it you can easily put it all back. Be aware that the assembly slides back and forth so before you do everything put up a geo pattern. Get your size close as possible on all sides before screwing it down. I still have more on bottom then I do on top. I never could get it just right. Still I went from a 5 or greater on all sides to 3% all the way around or so.

I run contrast at 28% and dont stay in the menu items at all but do spend a little more than 30 seconds in the guide. I haven't seen a prob since I dont leave it in guide and walk away. I have called them twice about this and they could care less.

Hope somebody sues their asses off, personally, as they have treated me exactly the same way. HUGE numbers of sets are going to be ruined by their flagrant disregard of this issue.


b

Depending on the cost I may be interested in getting in on this if you could make it to the Peoria area. (I have 3 Hitachi RP-CRTs).

With 3 sets, why wait for a tour??? Just fly me in yourself, we'll be busy for days. Or get some others involved too.

Contact me directly, not by pm please -

;)

b

You will have to totally rework convergence, and focus.

Optical refocusing is critical to this op, as it changes when you shim your set forward. Still looks good, but is no more focused than OOB, and we are really looking for videophile quality, or else why bother?

Can you say Cantilever Technique?

:p

I know you already did this, Mustang, I am aiming at others reading this...


b

Thanks for the write-up Mustang, I may get up the courage here once I have time. I'm really itching to get my overscan down some, it's about 6% on the sides. I also need my lens hood to be a little taller because I'm still getting some unwanted reflections, but raising up the assembly would kill two birds at once.

Good to hear the geometry wasn't terrible - I don't really mind doing convergence but have no real idea how to get perfect geometry as I haven't messed with that really. And I also take it you had to re-check the manual focus on your guns also, right?

Thanks for the write-up Mustang, I may get up the courage here once I have time. I'm really itching to get my overscan down some, it's about 6% on the sides. I also need my lens hood to be a little taller because I'm still getting some unwanted reflections, but raising up the assembly would kill two birds at once.

Good to hear the geometry wasn't terrible - I don't really mind doing convergence but have no real idea how to get perfect geometry as I haven't messed with that really. And I also take it you had to re-check the manual focus on your guns also, right?

Yes I did. YOur focus will be out on at least one gun if not all three. I called up Mr. Bob on that and did a phone consult using his Cantilever technique mentioned above. Cut my time down considerably as I would have had to do it by trial and error. I looked at it and had a common sense idea to work off of but man I would have never dialed focus in without Mr. Bobs technique and his coaching.

6% on the sides seem like a lot to me. If you did the shim mod I bet you could cut that down to 3% or lower. I think if I had went to 1.5 inches I would be at 2% all the way around. Just remember when you do it that assembly moves back and forward. There is a sweet spot to land on. I didn't but am fine with it. You can.

Last time I did focusing on the guns I just put up the single-line image in the DCAM (don't remember exactly) and just covered two guns with a small dinner plate while focusing each color at a time. Of course you have to go in from the back to do this while the screen is on.

Thanks for the tips on shimming, maybe next weekend I'll give it a shot. I need to find some blocks though I don't even have a saw, maybe time to invest in one. Sounds like a daunting mod but bringing in that overscan would be worth it. The sharpness drops off on the edges of my screen some too I've noticed, so I'm hoping that will get better with this also.

This is from my Mit 73" - not a Hitachi, granted, but equipped with the shim process being discussed here -

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5371/280924seasonopener2001fm4.jpg[/URL]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7330/280924seasonopener2002pa7.jpg[/URL]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9213/280924seasonopener4qk8.jpg[/URL]

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9783/280924seasonopener007jx4.jpg[/URL]

Last time I did focusing on the guns I just put up the single-line image in the DCAM (don't remember exactly) and just covered two guns with a small dinner plate while focusing each color at a time. Of course you have to go in from the back to do this while the screen is on.

Thanks for the tips on shimming, maybe next weekend I'll give it a shot. I need to find some blocks though I don't even have a saw, maybe time to invest in one. Sounds like a daunting mod but bringing in that overscan would be worth it. The sharpness drops off on the edges of my screen some too I've noticed, so I'm hoping that will get better with this also.

The age of your set and the source equipment you use may factor in. I tried the shim method on an older Elite last week, and after several hours and essentially completing the op I had to scrap it all and put it back the way it had been. Too much of the age footprint was showing on one source unit, and when recentered on that one the other source unit didn't completely show.

I think it will always work when new, but beware of that footprint if your set has some age on it.


b

Optical refocusing is critical to this op, as it changes when you shim your set forward. Still looks good, but is no more focused than OOB, and we are really looking for videophile quality, or else why bother?

Can you say Cantilever Technique?

:p

I know you already did this, Mustang, I am aiming at others reading this...


b

Cantilever Technique ... Directly from Master Jedi Mr. Bob.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/cantilever.html

Ok everyone I need your help I have the 51f59a and the issue is i have pink tint overlay on the tv. Ok here is what happened. First, issue was just yesterday my TV's brightness went down alot and i could not see the tv picture that good. Last year i had a technician and my warrant covered it and the guy like pulled front 3 white convered wires off and put them back in and I am not sure but he replaced something and the green tint issue was solved. So I did the same thing yesterday and know the brightness is all good but know the problem is there is a pink tint issue. Can someone help me out and tell me what i might have to replace to get the tint issue solved or what i might have to do inside the menu to fix the pink issue.

Can anyone please help me out.

Can anyone please help me out.

I'm trying to think of the problem but cant. Those three wires are on the front right below the screen? If that is the case then they may be the ones connected to the Magic Focus. My set has given me a funny tint to it once in a blue moon when I turn it on. I turn it off and back on and its gone. Really I cant think of the last time it did that.

Have a little patience and someone who knows a little more or has experienced this will post. I think you may be looking at a hardware problem though.

Ok everyone I need your help I have the 51f59a and the issue is i have pink tint overlay on the tv. Ok here is what happened. First, issue was just yesterday my TV's brightness went down alot and i could not see the tv picture that good. Last year i had a technician and my warrant covered it and the guy like pulled front 3 white convered wires off and put them back in and I am not sure but he replaced something and the green tint issue was solved. So I did the same thing yesterday and know the brightness is all good but know the problem is there is a pink tint issue. Can someone help me out and tell me what i might have to replace to get the tint issue solved or what i might have to do inside the menu to fix the pink issue.

Could be bad spark gaps or any of several other problems. I would leave troubleshooting at this level to a professional who is very familiar with your set. Not a good candidate for DIY, IMO.

Hey guys I have a weird issue here. I got a PS3 not too long ago. Along with it I bought one of these component selectors:
http://www.amazon.com/4-HD-Component-AV-Selector/dp/B000BVIBGI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234366639&sr=8-2
I also have an Xbox 360, and a Wii. The PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii are all on Input 4 while using the component selector switch. For reference my Comcast Motorolla HD-DVR is using Input 3 (component) and my Toshiba HD DVD player is on HDMI.
PS3 is set to display 720p or 1080i signals, the Xbox 360 is set to 1080i, and the Wii to 480p. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are using one of those multi system component adapters. These are the ones:
http://www.amazon.com/Resolution-Universal-Component-Playstation-Wii-Nintendo/dp/B0013OO986/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234367018&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Component-Cable-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B000IAPGIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234367018&sr=1-1
The Wii has just a regular Wii component cable I bought from monoprice.

Anyway... with the PS3 and Xbox 360 I get this weird distortion. I have diagonal lines like /////////////////////////////////////// that scroll horizontally from the bottom of the screen slowly up. It's most noticable on the PS3 during video playback. I don't really get it on the PS3 in 720p only mode or by using the HDMI input at either res. The 360 is does not matter which res I set it to I get the lines. It's most noticable on the 360 when bringing up the guide.
The Wii I have not noticed any issue.

I went out and bought another selector:
http://www.amazon.com/High-Definition-Audio-Video-Selector/dp/B001FG6FRK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234366639&sr=8-3

I get the same issue.. I also hooked up each component cable direct to the TV with no switch and I get the same issue... I tried switching to Input 3 and I get the same issue though I do not get this issue with my Comcast HD-DVR.

What are your thoughts guys? Are the component cables bad?

Ryan

I have a lot of large dust particles on the screen on the side facing the inside of the television. What is the best way to clean this?
Thanks

I have a lot of large dust particles on the screen on the side facing the inside of the television. What is the best way to clean this?
Thanks

You need to remove the screen. While you have the "hood opened" I'd suggest cleaning the lenses, and mirror if required. There was a thread with DIY pix and instructions--try a search.

I have a lot of large dust particles on the screen on the side facing the inside of the television. What is the best way to clean this?
Thanks

A soft, dry, lint-free cloth. Anything wet will be stuck there, forever.
Compressed air would probably work, too; just make sure it's dry.

GENTLY!

The age of your set and the source equipment you use may factor in. I tried the shim method on an older Elite last week, and after several hours and essentially completing the op I had to scrap it all and put it back the way it had been. Too much of the age footprint was showing on one source unit, and when recentered on that one the other source unit didn't completely show.

I think it will always work when new, but beware of that footprint if your set has some age on it.


b

Bob, did you have to remove MDF panel to shim it like you've mentioned before on non-elite Pioneer? I decided to keep overscan my my set right at 5% (all sides) in case I want to shim it later.

Hey guys I have a weird issue here. I got a PS3 not too long ago. Along with it I bought one of these component selectors:
http://www.amazon.com/4-HD-Component-AV-Selector/dp/B000BVIBGI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234366639&sr=8-2
I also have an Xbox 360, and a Wii. The PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii are all on Input 4 while using the component selector switch. For reference my Comcast Motorolla HD-DVR is using Input 3 (component) and my Toshiba HD DVD player is on HDMI.
PS3 is set to display 720p or 1080i signals, the Xbox 360 is set to 1080i, and the Wii to 480p. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are using one of those multi system component adapters. These are the ones:
http://www.amazon.com/Resolution-Universal-Component-Playstation-Wii-Nintendo/dp/B0013OO986/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234367018&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Component-Cable-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B000IAPGIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234367018&sr=1-1
The Wii has just a regular Wii component cable I bought from monoprice.

Anyway... with the PS3 and Xbox 360 I get this weird distortion. I have diagonal lines like /////////////////////////////////////// that scroll horizontally from the bottom of the screen slowly up. It's most noticable on the PS3 during video playback. I don't really get it on the PS3 in 720p only mode or by using the HDMI input at either res. The 360 is does not matter which res I set it to I get the lines. It's most noticable on the 360 when bringing up the guide.
The Wii I have not noticed any issue.

I went out and bought another selector:
http://www.amazon.com/High-Definition-Audio-Video-Selector/dp/B001FG6FRK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234366639&sr=8-3

I get the same issue.. I also hooked up each component cable direct to the TV with no switch and I get the same issue... I tried switching to Input 3 and I get the same issue though I do not get this issue with my Comcast HD-DVR.

What are your thoughts guys? Are the component cables bad?

Ryan

Its cheap to test that theory. Get some cheapos, probably have some around the house, and try those. I know this set has had issues with the signal block and inputs.

Does anyone know what might be the problem with my set with the pink issue.

Its cheap to test that theory. Get some cheapos, probably have some around the house, and try those. I know this set has had issues with the signal block and inputs.

I swapped out all console component cables I have and tried them all individually directly connected to the set. I get the lines on all of them. I doubt all 3 component cables went bad in the exact same way. After checking again I do notice it on the Wii. The weird thing is I do not see the problem on my Comcast Motorolla DVR at all. I've tried it on both component inputs and only have the problem with the game consoles. :(

Here's a pic of the lines: *EDIT* Sorry about the huge pic but it's harder to notice at a smaller res...
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x27/Dodkrieg/IMG_1481.jpg

This is driving me nuts.

Anyone have any ideas? I just started noticing this within the last 2 weeks. It did not do this before. Is my TV dying??

Ryan

Probably noise being picked up somewhere or poorly filtered in the console. Likely some caps going bad.

Probably noise being picked up somewhere or poorly filtered in the console. Likely some caps going bad.

Dude you just helped me fixed it. After reading your post I went and played around with the power cords. It doesn't like some things plugged into one of my surge protectors.

Thanks,

Ryan

What device was it? Some things will leak PS noise back into the line, some will generate RFI. I get a similar RF noise from my Sencore cap/inductor analyzer on my bench.

What device was it? Some things will leak PS noise back into the line, some will generate RFI. I get a similar RF noise from my Sencore cap/inductor analyzer on my bench.

I'm not 100% sure but now I think it was one of the surge protectors. My guess is it's probably going bad.

Ryan

Surge supressors do not generally generate noise like this. More likely a bad connection.

Surge supressors do not generally generate noise like this. More likely a bad connection.

Yeah it wasn't the surge supressor. I seems to be that it didn't like my placement of the wall warts for my Linksys router and a Monoprice optical Toslink to Coaxial converter. After rearranging the plugs I got a configuration with no more distortion. :D I'm a happy camper again!

Thanks for inspiring me to try that!

Ryan

Bob, did you have to remove MDF panel to shim it like you've mentioned before on non-elite Pioneer? I decided to keep overscan my my set right at 5% (all sides) in case I want to shim it later.


Not on that one, I think it was an x30 series, and there was no wood panel to have to remove, on it.

b

Yeah it wasn't the surge supressor. I seems to be that it didn't like my placement of the wall warts for my Linksys router and a Monoprice optical Toslink to Coaxial converter. After rearranging the plugs I got a configuration with no more distortion. :D I'm a happy camper again!

Thanks for inspiring me to try that!

Ryan

Looks like herringbone. My brand new 73" Mit had it really bad, on all inputs, and they wound up replacing the DM board under warranty.

Some of the DM bds are known to have a set of bad caps, 4 of them, 1000uF each. Luckily, yours was just routing. We had to watch that really closely in the high end car stereo installs I used to do. We'd string the power wires on one side of the car and the signal wires on the other, to not have one pick up noise inductively from the other.


b

Hey Mr. Bob can you maybe help me out with my problem the pink issue please.

Hey Mr. Bob can you maybe help me out with my problem the pink issue please.

Len put it best when he answered you. You have a very freaky set of circs there, and you need to call in a pro on it, and in this case that means a repair tech, not a calibrator. Pink usually means grayscale, but that's under usual circs. The circs you mentioned are anything but usual.

He said that it didn't look to him like a DIYer kind of problem. I agree. That's why I didn't answer you. I don't know anything offhand that would help, under such weird circs.

Nothin' personal, don't feel slighted -

;)

Good luck, and let us know what you find out.


b

There are lots of problems that require troubleshooting skills and equipment that are not practical for a DIYer to do. That is why professionals exist. There are limits to what can be communicated in a forum.

For anyone in the S.F./Northern California area who's looking for a calibrator, I can highly recommend Robert Jones. He recently calibrated and cleaned my six year old Elite PRO-730HD CRT rear-projector. The improvement is really striking -- even my wife and daughter were blown away by the clarity and depth of the picture. I'm very happy I decided not to replace this TV with a flat panel. I own much newer plasma sets by Pioneer (Elite) and Panasonic, as well as a Samsung LCD, and while they have excellent PQ, they can't compete with the CRT RPTV when it comes to black levels and picture clarity. You can find Bob at bob@imageperfection.com or 510-278-4247.

Michael Delman

Not on that one, I think it was an x30 series, and there was no wood panel to have to remove, on it.

b

Thanks Mr. Bob! That's a good news as I have 730HDi. How much shimming did you have to do if you don't mind me asking (1 3/4")?

Hey everyone, it's been a while since I've been on this thread. My dad and I are going to be pulling our 51" apart to do some optic cleaning. I don't know if it's been done before but is there a pdf available like there is for the standard picture tweaks for cleaning? I would really appreciate any cleaning tips you guys have.

Thanks Mr. Bob! That's a good news as I have 730HDi. How much shimming did you have to do if you don't mind me asking (1 3/4")?

Well since the project failed...

I used 2 layers of cut 1x2, glued to make a total of 1.5" thickness.

Which woulda worked fine if not for the age of the set and the resultant age footprint on the CRT faces. But that was for a 530.

A 730 would need more shimming to do the same thing.

A 530 is 53". A 730 is 64". You do the math - to do exactly the same thing, the shim for a 730 would have to be 64/53rds the thickness used successfully for a 530.

I'd try 2" for a 64". My 73" worked like a charm at 3 of those 1x2 thicknesses, at around 2.25" thickness.


b

Thanks again Bob!
I will try to shim my set once I get brave enough.

Well since the project failed...

I used 2 layers of cut 1x2, glued to make a total of 1.5" thickness.

Which woulda worked fine if not for the age of the set and the resultant age footprint on the CRT faces. But that was for a 530.

A 730 would need more shimming to do the same thing.

A 530 is 53". A 730 is 64". You do the math - to do exactly the same thing, the shim for a 730 would have to be 64/53rds the thickness used successfully for a 530.

I'd try 2" for a 64". My 73" worked like a charm at 3 of those 1x2 thicknesses, at around 2.25" thickness.


b

So, for a 51" set - a bit under 1.5" for a shim? Thinking semi-seriously of doing this to mine

Thinking semi-seriously of doing this to mine

That about sums it up with me. I really want to do it, but how to is eluding me. My set is not built the same as the 51". I may just have to pull it out and do some serious looking around.

So, for a 51" set - a bit under 1.5" for a shim? Thinking semi-seriously of doing this to mine

I used 1.25 and found I could have easily went to 1.50. I think that there is room after 1.50 but its getting close.

That about sums it up with me. I really want to do it, but how to is eluding me. My set is not built the same as the 51". I may just have to pull it out and do some serious looking around.

What are the differences? as long as there is a frame to sit it on it should work. I know I saw pics of some older sets having some wiring near the lense assembly but even that didn't seem to be a problem. If you sent me a pic or if one exist here of the inside of your set I could give my 2 cents worth. Not that I have more skill ( I dont ) its just that I have done it so I might see something your not.

I used 1.25 and found I could have easily went to 1.50. I think that there is room after 1.50 but its getting close.


Thanks.

At the size shim you used, what was your result in terms of o'scan levels? 4% or lower?

Hello,

I have an issue with my 51F59. Last night the TV started acting up. There is a faint, blue flicker. It's especially visible when the screen is dark (i.e. TV is on, but no input). A fairly accurate description of the problem would be a blue candle burning inside of the TV. It really does looks like that, and it's progressively getting worse.

I know it's hard to diagnose without standing in front of the thing, but any ideas as to what might be the problem? If you have any suggestions, please include the approximate cost for repairs.

Also, should I stick with local shops? They seem to be getting reviews for being rude, obnoxious, and for ripping people off (and people wonder why mom and pop stores are getting the shaft). The positive reviews appear to be made by someone who works there, because they go into explaining the procedure involved with service calls, and why things may take longer and cost a lot of money; I don't buy that guff. Anyways, the alternative is a place like Geek Squad. Any experience with those guys?

Thanks! :)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3717/21709shimmingoponmit730xi0.jpg[/URL]

3 thicknesses of 1x2, glued together and to the floor of the ledge, partially blackened, showing long bolts that replaced the original short ones. Using chimney bolts, were the only ones I could find w. the same thread. Bolt end from underside blackened along with red screwheads

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7991/21709shimmingoponmit730ig0.jpg[/URL]

2 doorstops, leveling the stack for horizon correctness. IR sensor cage board edge and bolt ends from underside blackened


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5909/21709shimmingoponmit73dqy9.jpg[/URL]

underside

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4736/21709shimmingoponmit730ha0.jpg[/URL]

From the Screenshot War thread, about my post here, which I copied over there also -


very nice Bob, this gives you more phosphur usage correct?

man oh I wish CRT RPTV wasn't dead! :(

-Gary

Yeah, they really didn't optimize what they had to work with when they designed these things. I have yet to see one that wasn't overscanned fairly dramatically (should say horrifically!) OOB, nor one which fully optimized the area of the CRT face used OOB, which yes is what this mod is all about.

On front pj we get to stage the throw distance when the unit is originally set up, and along with making sure there are no angles the beam goes thru while traversing the lens and a half a dozen other things, this one thing can always be optimized as long as we have control over how far away the pj is from the screen, factored in with the size of the image on each CRT face. We also get to aim the red and blue guns mechanically horizontally, for the optimum centering of the image on each of those guns. This also contributes to how much of the CRT face gets to be used.

Not so on CRT RPTV OOB, tho with a little perseverance and a LOT of patience, reigning in that overscan and optimizing the amount of CRT face utilized CAN be done with that genre as well.


As for lamenting the demise of CRT RPTV, I second your emotions on that!

:(

But check this out - CRT RPTV can go on for a long long time, even tho they are not being produced new anymore. CRT that has been well taken care of lasts and lasts and lasts, just like the energizer bunny. On CRT RPTV, properly cared for by their owners I keep them looking better than new for 10 years and more all the time.

Now to the good part - LOTS of CRT RPTVs are being dumped on the used market for pennies on the dollar right now, with Joe Sixpack jumping on the retail bandwagon as he always does, in this case for plasma and LCD flat panel. Which as we all know need to be very expensive to even match what CRT has always been capable of.

EXCELLENT CRT RPTVs can be had for song right now on the used market, just gotta find them before they get snapped up. And via UEC, for refurbed brand new Hitachis, which calibrate up to an absolutely superb picture. If you've seen that fabulous closeup of that gorgeous woman taken by Owen on his tricked out 57" Hitachi CRT - which has the mod above, among others - you know what I mean. Again, gotta get them when they come in at UEC, because they fly right out again, often the same day.

As long as they have not used those sets as the family baby sitter, with it on 16 hours a day or at Torch Mode all the time, and have been careful about screenburn - just take an all white pattern with you to double-check any questions about that - you can scarf an incredible deal on CRT RPTV right now. IMHO, it's the deal of the century, esp. when you can get it cleaned and calibrated - and thus completely restored, often better than new - and have HD like you would not believe!

I started the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread 2 years ago, and it's still going strong, having passed its 150th page recently. Here on this thread you find afficianados who are dedicated to the really big picture; and to CRT for the most part, as being one of the best ways to get there. Over there you find afficianados who can't afford the really big stuff like you have here, but are just as dedicated to CRT as one of the best video formats ever made, and are willing to trick their sets out beyond measure, to get as close as they possibly can to the best pic available.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=164

I'm still itching to get my hands on Cliff's 65" Mit with the 9" guns!

;)

b

Thanks.

At the size shim you used, what was your result in terms of o'scan levels? 4% or lower?

I went from 5% to 3%. As I have said I had a problem with the bottom. I could get it at about 0 (really) but the top would only do about 3 to 3.5. I know I didn't scoot the assembly enough the right way and caused this. Still it is pretty darn good. I just balanced it out on geometry and ended up with 3 on top and bottom. I think I could have gotten 2% all the way around if I had just went to 1.50 and moved the assembly just right. Still I have heard 3% may be the best you can get on these sets. 1.5 will get you there for sure with room to spare.

Believe it or not the Hits are easier to shim than the Mit from the looks of that pic. All you have to do is put the shims right under the sides of the assembly frame. I have some pics a couple of pages back that show what I mean.

Long time lurker first time poster so I hope I'm doing it right. Reason for 1st post tonight Igo into basement to watch Purdue Mich St. game turn on 51f59 and tv is flashing green,pink and black lines with picture behind it . :eek:checked connections turned tv on and off tried magic focus read thru tweaks thread and can't find the problem. :mad:another funny thing when I change the channel picture is clear for about a second before it goes crappy again. Any ideas sugestions greatly appreciated I've learned so much from every one in this forum and I'm thankful.:D sorry if a bad first post hope to get better:D

Long time lurker first time poster so I hope I'm doing it right. Reason for 1st post tonight Igo into basement to watch Purdue Mich St. game turn on 51f59 and tv is flashing green,pink and black lines with picture behind it . :eek:checked connections turned tv on and off tried magic focus read thru tweaks thread and can't find the problem. :mad:another funny thing when I change the channel picture is clear for about a second before it goes crappy again. Any ideas sugestions greatly appreciated I've learned so much from every one in this forum and I'm thankful.:D sorry if a bad first post hope to get better:D

OTA (antenna)? Do you have the problem on any other input besides air (or whatever it's on)? If it's all inputs, it's the set; if it's just this input, it's a cable.
More info, please.
And don't bother with Magic Focus. If you're here, you know how to do better than that.

Last But Not Least, Thanks. I didn't even think about checking other inputs :confused:but checked DVD this mornig and its fine:D now when you say it could be cables what do you mean bad hdmi cale or HD cable box. Thanks for help really appreciate it this forum is awesome almost everybody helps people out in here:)

One question seems I screwed up my time stamp tried fixing it but can't get back into it any ideas?

when you say it could be cables what do you mean bad hdmi cale or HD cable box.

ANY cable. I've had a hard time with the cable from my antenna to the set. Optical cables are notoriously fragile. Sometimes just "jiggling" the connector helps; sometimes it needs to be tighter or looser; sometimes it's just a bad cable. Since cables are usually easy to swap out, it's an easy thing to try. If it's not the cable and not the set, it's the source (cable box, player, etc.).
Sorry, don't use the set's clock, so I can't help you there.
Michael

Now that my set's out of warranty (part of a LONG story), since I had the screen off earlier today, I removed the 8 magic focus mirrors around the frame and pulled out the wiring harness. Not a difficult job, and eliminates several (obviously) reflective surfaces.
I did not get aggressive enough to remove the white clamps that hold the wires in place, but I did rotate them further out of the way. Will try a little more brute force next time (nothing to lose, after all).

Now that my set's out of warranty (part of a LONG story), since I had the screen off earlier today, I removed the 8 magic focus mirrors around the frame and pulled out the wiring harness. Not a difficult job, and eliminates several (obviously) reflective surfaces.
I did not get aggressive enough to remove the white clamps that hold the wires in place, but I did rotate them further out of the way. Will try a little more brute force next time (nothing to lose, after all).

Have you gotten your blue gun yet? And since you have to start all over again, pretty much, are you reducing your overscan via shimming... sm, or leaving it as it is? I'm interested (as I'm sure many others) to follow your progress.

I see that you are doing new thing to your set... that is great! keep us informed.

Good look! :)

Owen just put up a link to his original post about the shimming mod, see #4919 over at my Don't Dump... thread -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=164

Quite a bit of discussion happened instantly!

;)

b

Mr. Bob love all your advice and help you give the RP guys.:) Can you recommend anydody in eastern Mass that could get my 52F59 looking great. THanks

Mr. Bob love all your advice and help you give the RP guys.:) Can you recommend anydody in eastern Mass that could get my 52F59 looking great. THanks

There's a NE Mr Bob tour presently in the planning stages, currently centered around NY. If you're closeby to there, contact me and I'll get you in. If not, a side trip can always be arranged...


b

Have you gotten your blue gun yet? And since you have to start all over again, pretty much, are you reducing your overscan via shimming... sm, or leaving it as it is? I'm interested (as I'm sure many others) to follow your progress.

I see that you are doing new thing to your set... that is great! keep us informed.

Good look! :)

Did I miss something? What happened to your Blue gun?

Did I miss something? What happened to your Blue gun?

Michael got boisterously and joyously "attacked" by his overly friendly big dog while he was inside his set, and now his blue gun has a horizontal line on it, due to the vertical sweep somehow being lost on just his blue gun. He's getting a new one to replace it.

Fortunately this should only take re-setup of his blue gun, not the whole set.


b

Michael got boisterously and joyously "attacked" by his overly friendly big dog while he was inside his set, and now his blue gun has a horizontal line on it, due to the vertical sweep somehow being lost on just his blue gun. He's getting a new one to replace it.

Fortunately this should only take re-setup of his blue gun, not the whole set.


b

Actually, she's not big, just old (almost 16) and not able to control her direction very well (we've named her "Crash," which doesn't affect her much since she can't hear anymore, anyway).
The blue gun is "on backorder from the manufacturer." Was supposed to ship two days ago, obviously, hasn't. Mr. Bob and I await with bated breath.
Aside to Mr. Bob: I'm not going to need to solder anything, am I? I okay with just about anything but a soldering iron.
Aside to Mustang: Thanks for your concern. Stay tuned.
Aside to Leo: I will soon post pics (and directions) for removing the entire Magic Focus harness. I redid the geometery (pics of that, too), but may end up doing the shimming just "because."
Unless, of course, a refurb shows up on UEC in the meantime, in which case I may just start over.
When did my life get so interesting?!
Michael

Actually, she's not big, just old (almost 16) and not able to control her direction very well (we've named her "Crash," which doesn't affect her much since she can't hear anymore, anyway).
The blue gun is "on backorder from the manufacturer." Was supposed to ship two days ago, obviously, hasn't. Mr. Bob and I await with bated breath.
Aside to Mr. Bob: I'm not going to need to solder anything, am I? I okay with just about anything but a soldering iron.
Aside to Mustang: Thanks for your concern. Stay tuned.
Aside to Leo: I will soon post pics (and directions) for removing the entire Magic Focus harness. I redid the geometery (pics of that, too), but may end up doing the shimming just "because."
Unless, of course, a refurb shows up on UEC in the meantime, in which case I may just start over.
When did my life get so interesting?!
Michael

If it wasn't for you and Mr. Bob this thread would still roll but it wouldn't rock. We gotta keep our A-List players on the roster. Consider us your Paparazzi:D

P.S> Since doing the shim my convergence has settled in nicely. I redid a few points today on the sides but really didn't need too. Pic is still killer. I'm going to put in "When we were Soldiers" HD DVD today to see how that flick looks like after the shim. The pic seems bigger and more detailed since the shim too.

... post pics (and directions) for removing the entire Magic Focus harness. I redid the geometery (pics of that, too), but may end up doing the shimming just "because."

Michael

My shimming schedule still on. Three more weeks and counting. If you think removing the magic focus harness is worth it, I might as well do that too while I have time.

Let us know if is worth it.

As posted on the "Don't dump your CRT RPTV" thread:

For those who have young kids and a CRT RPTV... learn from my mistake.. get something to protect your screen NOW! A Sheet of Plexi glass or something to put in front of the screen while the children are present.

I thought I'd be ok with my little 2 year old. Well I was wrong... I woke up today and my wife told me my son had taken a Rock Band drum stick and smacked the TV twice... this is the result:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x27/Dodkrieg/screen01.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x27/Dodkrieg/screen02.jpg

Last time I checked a new screen for my Hitachi 51F59A was $450 + $150 shipping... Anyone know where I could get a used screen?

The only thing positive that I can say is I'm glad it's a RPTV cuz if it was LCD I wouldn't be able to watch my TV at all...

Ryan

Last time I checked a new screen for my Hitachi 51F59A was $450 + $150 shipping... Anyone know where I could get a used screen?

The only thing positive that I can say is I'm glad it's a RPTV cuz if it was LCD I wouldn't be able to watch my TV at all...

Ryan

Ouch. That hurts.
And that's from someone who's f*d up his OWN set.

Aside to Mr. Bob: I'm not going to need to solder anything, am I? I okay with just about anything but a soldering iron.

Michael

Replacing the blue gun should not involve any soldering at all.


b

As posted on the "Don't dump your CRT RPTV" thread:

Last time I checked a new screen for my Hitachi 51F59A was $450 + $150 shipping... Anyone know where I could get a used screen?

The only thing positive that I can say is I'm glad it's a RPTV cuz if it was LCD I wouldn't be able to watch my TV at all...

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

Ouch! You have an email.

My shimming schedule still on. Three more weeks and counting. If you think removing the magic focus harness is worth it, I might as well do that too while I have time.

Let us know if is worth it.

I removed all of the wiring, mirrors, and white clips from the inside of the screen a couple days ago. It was relatively easy. I did have to use pliers to get the clips that refused to be pulled out by hand.

I removed all of the wiring, mirrors, and white clips from the inside of the screen a couple days ago. It was relatively easy. I did have to use pliers to get the clips that refused to be pulled out by hand.

I dont use MF but hesitate to remove anything. I would have to have someone tell me without a doubt it showed any kind of improvement. I dont mean the kind we DIYer's sometime refer too that is kinda abstract. I mean a real visible difference. I say this and I will probably be taking them out next week.;):D

I dont use MF but hesitate to remove anything. I would have to have someone tell me without a doubt it showed any kind of improvement. I dont mean the kind we DIYer's sometime refer too that is kinda abstract. I mean a real visible difference. I say this and I will probably be taking them out next week.;):D

Depends on how much internal reflections they put out. They can be effectively hidden by black tape or cloth without being removed.


b

Depends on how much internal reflections they put out. They can be effectively hidden by black tape or cloth without being removed.


b

Very true. I just took the wires and harnesses off of my ex-wife's screen, but before I did, I was thinking if it made a big enough improvement to warrant it. But then I wondered, in a high-end RP install, would there be wires and white clips running along the inside of the screen? Nope there wouldn't be. So with unburdened shoulders, I happily took them off.

I'm all about that last 2-10% people!

(joy)well it sounds like that you have lots of love for your doggie(smile)......boy do i still miss my little old baby(DOGGIE)...nice too here that you still have her ( crash ) around for some extra hugs ... you will miss all of these things later....hope you have lots more years with your doggie....

Finally got a laser printer hooked to my computer, but now I can't find the link to the xxf59 service manual. Anybody store the link? I don't seem to be clever enough to persuade "search" to help me.

Finally got a laser printer hooked to my computer, but now I can't find the link to the xxf59 service manual. Anybody store the link? I don't seem to be clever enough to persuade "search" to help me.

http://www.encompassparts.com/
guest login
login
model # -> 57F59
download pdf
buy more paper
:)

If you think removing the magic focus harness is worth it, I might as well do that too while I have time.

Let us know if is worth it.

Here's the inside of the screen frame with everything removed:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1202/frame.jpg

If you want, it's easy just to remove the mirrors and the wiring, leaving the sensor harnesses in place.
If you want to remove everything, unscrew all the screws holding in the screen holders. CAUTION: ON MY SET, THE TOP AND BOTTOM SCREEN HOLDERS WERE GLUED TO THE LENTICULAR. LIFT THEM CAREFULLY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SENSOR HARNESSES.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4674/sensorharness.jpg

BTW, if you're curious about what a crack in the lenticular looks like, it looks like a little hair stuck in the corner of the inside of the set. Fortunately, easy enough to ignore.
Lifting carefully, you can get to the bottom of the sensor harness with a needle nose pliers. You can hear and feel it "click," then you can pull it out.

After that, I redid the geometry (again). I like the string method, though you get strange looks from anyone else who may be around:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9580/string.jpg

I found this much easier than the jig, since the lines on the jig were so thick, I had a hard time seeing the lines on the set. The string is much thinner and it's much easier to see around.

With the green on, it looked like this (the string appears red in the photo, RGBOUT = 2):

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4057/geobefore.jpg

Oops. Fixed it so it looked like this:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8394/geoafter.jpg

Then got red and blue to match green.

End result:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/820/oscanbefore.jpg

Not bad. However, I noticed that the top border of the image was 1/2 below the top edge of the screen. Weird. Step one: panic. Step two: change aspect to zoom to make sure that the SET isn't messed up (again/more). Set's okay.
Couldn't do anything to get more image at the top, so just moved everything up. So now there's less overscan on the bottom than at the top, which is meaningless anyway since 95% of what I watch is widescreen.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3038/oscanafter.jpg

Was going to do the shimming, but would end up with underscan :), so decided to leave well enough alone.

BTW, the yellow line across the middle is what you get when something (a dog, for example) scares the crap out of you while you're doing something inside the set that you probably shouldn't be doing, anyway ("No user serviceable parts inside," after all).
The new blue gun came today, so arrangements will be made to install it soon. Stay tuned.

Great post Michael ... and alot of patients getting the strings up.

http://www.encompassparts.com/
guest login
login
model # -> 57F59
download pdf
buy more paper
:)

THANK YOU!!!
Paper not a problem, had to buy 2 cases to get free delivery from Staples...

Great post Michael ... and alot of patients getting the strings up.


Maybe I missed something - but what do you use as a reference to space out the strings?

I have a jig printed on vellum paper. If I go in & crank back up the DCAM grid bright/contrast to OOB or higher levels, I see the lines just fine.

That said, the vellum jig is a little beat up. I can have another printed, but if the string thing is not a huge hassle, I'd love to pick your brain about your setup/prep for such a thing.

The shimming is likely gonna happen soon on mine, but I'll need to revert back to OOB o'scan first, hence the jig/string questions...

If heading toward underscan is possible w/o edge issues, I'd be fine with that.

Also...for Bob (and everyone else)...let me know if I am way off here, but..

it is possible that when you do the shim procedure that you might see some underscan that is actually just a service menu setting involving "blanking out" the normally scanned out edges of video info. I know that in the past when messing w/ o'scan "the old fashioned way", I came across SM parameters that could expose video info not normally seen on the L/R sides. If this blanking is let out too far, it'll cause major reflextions as the image (I assume) goes out beyond the screen area.

IIRC, those SM parameters had the work "BLANK" in them. ANd of course, this extra video is only present on 16x9 images.

I know this function is there in the F59 SM -I have messed with it. But it's possible the OOB settings for this are such that it may never be noticed when shimming the CRT array.

Again....feel free to call me crazy...

Great post Michael ... and alot of patients getting the strings up.

Fortunately, most of my patients don't need to be tied down.:)
But yes, patience is a virtue that I don't usually have in excess.
But for really IMPORTANT things....

Maybe I missed something - but what do you use as a reference to space out the strings?

I have a jig printed on vellum paper. If I go in & crank back up the DCAM grid bright/contrast to OOB or higher levels, I see the lines just fine.

That said, the vellum jig is a little beat up. I can have another printed, but if the string thing is not a huge hassle, I'd love to pick your brain about your setup/prep for such a thing.

Again....feel free to call me crazy...

We're all crazy, so that's nothing new.
The middle vertical and horizontal are midlines. If you're going back to stock, just use the measurements for the jig in the service manual, working out from the middle. Otherwise, reduce it 2% or so, depending on how much work you want to do. Set up the green with the string, remove the string, then do red and blue to green. Goo Gone for any tape residue. :)
Checked afterwards with a geometry screen and found that my top and bottom rows were still too far out, so brought them in.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7594/geo.jpg

The rest you can see.
Any other questions? Go for it!
Michael

Guess my goal via shimming is to get more of those grid circles visible. They are more so than your pic now, but the H/V sizing/DCAM tweaking o'scan reduction did lead to some minor issues along the extreme L/R edges. Not super noticable, but I know they are there.

My hope is that by getting oscan/geo back to OOB levels, I can get equal or perhaps get better o'scan results via shimming - and maybe do away w/some of those extreme edge issues.

[QUOTE=LastButNotLeast;15902513]Here's the inside of the screen frame with everything removed:


:confused:how did you get the front screen off :confused:.i took the speaker panel off /bottom screwsbut the screen didnt seem to like it when i :eek:...tried... to pull it off . so i left well alone:o

What is your OScan Michael. IF your sitting at about 5% on the sides I was too before the shim. Now I am at 3%. I think this is worth it to me. For whatever reason I have the exact same problem with the bottom vs. the top. I believe mine derives from the assembly not moving far enough forward but it is odd that what you have is a mirror image of what mine has. Oh well mine is dialed out to nothing but image on the screen. So what if the top is 3.5% and the bottom 2% or what ever mine ended up. Its still under 5% and that is where I started.

[QUOTE=LastButNotLeast;15902513]Here's the inside of the screen frame with everything removed:


:confused:how did you get the front screen off :confused:.i took the speaker panel off /bottom screwsbut the screen didnt seem to like it when i :eek:...tried... to pull it off . so i left well alone:o


I just worked on a Hitachi here in Baltimore today - Aberdeen actually - and it lifted straight up and off. But ALL the screws along the bottom had to come off, not just the ones in the gray plastic. The ones at the bottom end of the black metal braces on each far side had to come out as well -


b

What is your OScan Michael. IF your sitting at about 5% on the sides I was too before the shim. Now I am at 3%. I think this is worth it to me. For whatever reason I have the exact same problem with the bottom vs. the top. I believe mine derives from the assembly not moving far enough forward but it is odd that what you have is a mirror image of what mine has. Oh well mine is dialed out to nothing but image on the screen. So what if the top is 3.5% and the bottom 2% or what ever mine ended up. Its still under 5% and that is where I started.

On a 4x3 screen a 16x9 HD image is going to have HUGE amounts of play in both the up and down directions. So if your sources can produce it without blanking it, lots of it can show as long as the aging footprint is not too dark.

What you are describing is the vertical centering of the hor lines. Forward and back on your shimmed CRT array is up to down on your viewscreen...


b

Also...for Bob (and everyone else)...let me know if I am way off here, but..

it is possible that when you do the shim procedure that you might see some underscan that is actually just a service menu setting involving "blanking out" the normally scanned out edges of video info. I know that in the past when messing w/ o'scan "the old fashioned way", I came across SM parameters that could expose video info not normally seen on the L/R sides. If this blanking is let out too far, it'll cause major reflextions as the image (I assume) goes out beyond the screen area.

IIRC, those SM parameters had the work "BLANK" in them. ANd of course, this extra video is only present on 16x9 images.

I know this function is there in the F59 SM -I have messed with it. But it's possible the OOB settings for this are such that it may never be noticed when shimming the CRT array.

Again....feel free to call me crazy...

Yes, you are certifiable, aren't we all...

:D

Blanking is definitely a calibration issue, and if you can handle it, can let your screen expose more pic. But if your sources are not showing exactly the same edge limits, it can get you into trouble if you optimize to one but the other short sheets you, and shows edge where the first source did not.

It's all a tightwire act, or as Andrew Dice Clay would call it, "a (friggin') horror show...!"


b

What is your OScan Michael. IF your sitting at about 5% on the sides I was too before the shim. Now I am at 3%. I think this is worth it to me. For whatever reason I have the exact same problem with the bottom vs. the top. I believe mine derives from the assembly not moving far enough forward but it is odd that what you have is a mirror image of what mine has. Oh well mine is dialed out to nothing but image on the screen. So what if the top is 3.5% and the bottom 2% or what ever mine ended up. Its still under 5% and that is where I started.

The sides are at 5%. But the bottom is probably around 1%, and I'm afraid that, if I shim it, I'll run out of picture. The geometry is more important to me, so I'll leave it alone.
Actually, IMPORTANT is the wrong word - I'm much more interested in the tweaking than the watching. I don't like speedbumps and I like my circles round (and I'm getting REALLY tired of the line from the dead blue gun, but that'll be fixed soon), but the only person who watches it and cares is me, so I try not to drive myself too crazy.
Do I SEE a difference with the MF stuff removed? No. Can I tell the difference between 5% overscan and 4% overscan? No.
But it's fun.
Until the screen cracks or the blue gun shorts out!
Tweak on!
Michael

:confused:how did you get the front screen off :confused:.i took the speaker panel off /bottom screwsbut the screen didnt seem to like it when i :eek:...tried... to pull it off . so i left well alone:o

You have downloaded the service manual, no?
There are 14 screws in the back. Then there are the screws along the bottom in the front. And don't forget to unplug the magic focus connectors!
Popping it off the first time takes some work; it gets easier after that.
But if you're getting REAL resistance, look for another screw.

But if you're getting REAL resistance, look for another screw.

Right. It only takes one to lock up the whole thing and keep it immoveable. Sometimes it can be at the front panel, inside the door.


b

I'm in Aberdeen Maryland working on a 57uwx20b. It seems to need a different grayscale setting in the sm for every different format and scanrate. I started with using the component for the BDP doing STD, and when the HDMI for the DirecTV box didn't respond well at all to that setting, I used MED for that one, making it respond well.

Then I went to 480p, found that one needed a different one from the others as well, so had to do that one in HIGH. There are no others to use! Hopefully 480i won't need special attentoin as well.

So now each one has to be kept in the proper temp to look right, which means keeping track in case of a power outage, young explorative fingers on the remote in the User menu while the owners are not home, etc.

Is there any other way to do it??? When I go to the ISF mode, the 3 aforementioned color temps are signified by the first letter of each, and have the same reg values as the central listing...


b

Is the gray scale stable after you do this? One thing that is common on these sets is that the gray scale is unstable when the spark gaps on the CRTs get dirty. You can clean or remove them to test this.

Do you have access to the Hitachi web site?

Is the gray scale stable after you do this? One thing that is common on these sets is that the gray scale is unstable when the spark gaps on the CRTs get dirty. You can clean or remove them to test this.

Hm. Hadn't thought of that.


Do you have access to the Hitachi web site?

Yes, I downloaded the manual yesteday, and printed out the salient parts of it. Hit keeps changing different buttons year by year on their remote for some godforsaken reason, have to have access to its serv man'ls to keep up...

I don't think it's instability because it doesn't drift - at least I don't think so, will double check today - but this different set of settings for each scanrate is nothing new. The Mits's do it that way, there are 4, including those sets that have RGB as the 4th one, with 480i and p being separate from each other. Sony is the only brand I know where you can set one scanrate and it will always apply correctly for every other scanrate or format in there.

The test patterns also seem to be of limited value on this set. A pattern only has a bar or segment for that light level. When it's not an entirely linear tracking grayscale - and on most consumer units it's not, and you have to extrapolate peaks and valleys - it can be different once you get to real world material and find that the background darks might contain one of those peaks or valleys that you averaged when using the test pattern. I had to turn down the red in the blacks last night on this unit in one of the temps when back on real world material, which looked fine on the grayscale patterns for that temp. It was making the blacks reddish/brownish, which didn't happen on the test patterns. Had to take the r cutoff down about 5 clicks to remedy that.


b

[QUOTE=LastButNotLeast;15902513]Here's the inside of the screen frame with everything removed:


:confused:how did you get the front screen off :confused:.i took the speaker panel off /bottom screwsbut the screen didnt seem to like it when i :eek:...tried... to pull it off . so i left well alone:o

There are a dozen or so screws below the screen that need to be removed (including some behind the 2 grey decoration panels just below the screen), plus you need to disconnect 2 wiring harness. Near the back of the owners manual are disassembly/assembly instructions, which include pix.

Yes, you are certifiable, aren't we all...

:D

Blanking is definitely a calibration issue, and if you can handle it, can let your screen expose more pic. But if your sources are not showing exactly the same edge limits, it can get you into trouble if you optimize to one but the other short sheets you, and shows edge where the first source did not.

It's all a tightwire act, or as Andrew Dice Clay would call it, "a (friggin') horror show...!"


b

Thanks, Bob.

When I messed about with the blanking stuff, I used a FOX HD (Prison Break) broadcast as a reference. I had moved the image off towards the left using the SM paramters so that the far right edge was visible. Once the "end" of the image appeared, I could tweak the Blank settings to expose more image (found the blue, far right corner FOX logo went on much further than I normally was seeing).

I soon found upon recentering the image - and had not reset the blanking level to where it was before messing with it - that the extended image was reflecting back onto the screen. So obviously, not enough "blanking" can be bad.

At this point, I still need to do the shimming first. What I would like to know is whether anyone else here saw what appeared to be UNDERscan in 16x9 images durng/after the shimming process. if such a thing occurs, it is possible that letting out some of the blanked edge material would both take care of perceived underscan & add that that extra tidbit of viewable image (if it is there to be viewed that is).

Thanks, Bob.

When I messed about with the blanking stuff, I used a FOX HD (Prison Break) broadcast as a reference. I had moved the image off towards the left using the SM paramters so that the far right edge was visible. Once the "end" of the image appeared, I could tweak the Blank settings to expose more image (found the blue, far right corner FOX logo went on much further than I normally was seeing).

I soon found upon recentering the image - and had not reset the blanking level to where it was before messing with it - that the extended image was reflecting back onto the screen. So obviously, not enough "blanking" can be bad.

At this point, I still need to do the shimming first. What I would like to know is whether anyone else here saw what appeared to be UNDERscan in 16x9 images durng/after the shimming process. if such a thing occurs, it is possible that letting out some of the blanked edge material would both take care of perceived underscan & add that that extra tidbit of viewable image (if it is there to be viewed that is).

What are the regs that allow you to regulate that blanking? I could use some more pic area on the 57uwx20b I'm currently working on.

Yes, you can put so much shimming in that you'd actually be able to see the edge of the CRT itself on the screen, if it were visible. Total undescanning is possible with enough shimming, to having just a small picture - or set of 3 pix, really, they'd be separated when that close to the mirror - on your viewscreen.


b

What are the regs that allow you to regulate that blanking? I could use some more pic area on the 57uwx20b I'm currently working on.

Yes, you can put so much shimming in that you'd actually be able to see the edge of the CRT itself on the screen, if it were visible. Total undescanning is possible with enough shimming, to having just a small picture - or set of 3 pix, really, they'd be separated when that close to the mirror - on your viewscreen.


b


Don't recall the names - but IIRC, the F59 parameters had the word "BLANK" in them & I believe were in the TA1306 menu. Not sure how much SM terminology changed btwn the UWX & F59 series (considering how Hit loves to change things from one line to the next, who knows!). I had a 43UWX10B before the F59, but the former set never saw me going into SM much at all.

NO, the goal is not for UNDERSCAN - just curious to see how "low I can go". If I can get to around 2-3% w/o any conv/geo errors along the edges, I think my image tweaking days would be over (waits for the chorus of "yeah, right!" to ring thru this thread ;) ).

I'm in Aberdeen Maryland working on a 57uwx20b. It seems to need a different grayscale setting in the sm for every different format and scanrate. I started with using the component for the BDP doing STD, and when the HDMI for the DirecTV box didn't respond well at all to that setting, I used MED for that one, making it respond well.

Then I went to 480p, found that one needed a different one from the others as well, so had to do that one in HIGH. There are no others to use! Hopefully 480i won't need special attentoin as well.

So now each one has to be kept in the proper temp to look right, which means keeping track in case of a power outage, young explorative fingers on the remote in the User menu while the owners are not home, etc.

Is there any other way to do it??? When I go to the ISF mode, the 3 aforementioned color temps are signified by the first letter of each, and have the same reg values as the central listing...


b

Hi Bob,

I thought HIGH color temp had to be run first on Hit, as MED and LOW are offset from HIGH. If you change HIGH last it could effect the other temps.

Don't recall the names - but IIRC, the F59 parameters had the word "BLANK" in them & I believe were in the TA1306 menu. Not sure how much SM terminology changed btwn the UWX & F59 series (considering how Hit loves to change things from one line to the next, who knows!). I had a 43UWX10B before the F59, but the former set never saw me going into SM much at all.

NO, the goal is not for UNDERSCAN - just curious to see how "low I can go". If I can get to around 2-3% w/o any conv/geo errors along the edges, I think my image tweaking days would be over (waits for the chorus of "yeah, right!" to ring thru this thread ;) ).

Without shimming being in play, I have never been successful in getting any CRT RPTV to go under 4% successfully all around without obnoxious visible feathering going on at the sides, red to green. Except maybe on one of the Mit models, where Craig Rounds has been able to pull off 3%.

On the unit I'm working on, the top/bottom go all the way out to 0% on the HD DVE pattern, where there's an actual black wedge showing indicating its endpoint, no unblanking necessary. But to have the geometry accurate, the circle needs to stay a circle, so the limiting factor becomes the sides. If they don't go out as far as the t/b because of the blanking, game over, unless you'll be happy with an oval rather than a circle. Even if they do, if taking the o'scan in that much also produces distracting vertical feathering of the red vs. the green at the sides, which is uncorrectable, game over.

I would be supremely happy with 4% overscan all around, on ANY CRT RPTV I calibrate. At 4% everything that's relevant shows. At 3 or 2%, more shows and you get more pixels/square inch, but the relevant stuff is still there at 4%, if shimming is not an option.


b

Mr. Bob,

re: your 57uwx20b job, if your going to set H,M, and L grayscale points all to 6500, do the H first and copy the same values to M and L, they should read all the same grayscale points. M and L are affected by H, aleast thats my experience with my 51uwx20b.

Ah, HA! So that's why doing the High last changed everything else AFTER I had supposedly finished with them.

Fortunately I obeyed the first rule of calibrating, as usual - I copied down ALL settings before changing any of them. Will go back to square 1 directly.

I knew it was this way with Pioneer, and NOT this way with Mit. Since all I ever usually do on the Hits is STD, have never before needed to do High, it did not occur to me that it would be this way on these models.

Thanks guys!


;)


b

Oh, if I'm "stuck" @ 4%, that's fine. I'm a hair under 4% now w/o shimming. There is faint evidence of the feathering you mention on both L/R sides, but is not particularly offensive (but I know it's there!).

If shimming the CRT array will get me even the same as I have now, but w/o the edge issues (plus the other ancillary benefits of shoving a more dense image onto the screen), I think it'll be worth the effort.

A optics cleaning is likely due soon, so I'll surely knock out the shimming stuff @ maybe some additional "blackening out" of reflective stuff @ the same time (BEFORE cleaning, of course!)

Finally! Will redo after blue gun is replaced, but at least I have a starting point:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8983/colleen.jpg

Michael

Last time I checked a new screen for my Hitachi 51F59A was $450 + $150 shipping... Anyone know where I could get a used screen?

The only thing positive that I can say is I'm glad it's a RPTV cuz if it was LCD I wouldn't be able to watch my TV at all...

Ryan

I've found a replacement screen for a little over $280 shipped. The shop replacing my input board for the HDMI shift fix wants $120 to install the screen. Hitachi advised me not to install it myself. How hard is it to replace the screen?

My other option is to find a used set and use it for parts. I've found a few but I'm getting the urge to find a 65" set and be done with it... I found one online and they want $600 obo for it but it's 4.5 hours away...

Either way my wife is being a PITA about the whole situation.. she's perfectly fine with the crack in the screen and thinks my obsession of getting my TV fix is an unnecessary expense... women. :/

Ryan

... Either way my wife is being a PITA about the whole situation.. she's perfectly fine with the crack in the screen and thinks my obsession of getting my TV fix is an unnecessary expense... women. :/

Ryan

Before I get any women out there that might read this outraged about what I'm about to write (my wife for example), this is just as a joke side comment on having a permanent broken tv.

Ask your wife to use a plastic bag as a purse, hey it holds her stuff as well as a real purse!

...On the unit I'm working on, the top/bottom go all the way out to 0% on the HD DVE pattern, where there's an actual black wedge showing indicating its endpoint, no unblanking necessary...


b

This IS NOT from a RPCRT is from a digital FP, and is just to illustrate what Bob is mentioning regarding the overscan.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm148/CastilloLeo/casita034.jpg

Hitachi advised me not to install it myself. How hard is it to replace the screen?

Ryan

That's not out of line for installing a screen. The vertical ribs are VERY fragile, and ready to tear apart from each other at the slightest provocation. One time before I knew HOW fragile they were, I placed the screen vertical instead of the regular horizontal positioning, the lent fell away and down upon itself, and tore itself. Had to be replaced.

Be VERY careful. For that kind of $, I'd let the tech assume the risks.

Also be sure that anybody handling that screen wears appropriate attire on their hands. Finger and hand grease getting on there is VERY hard to successfully remove, and you may not spot it till it's all built again, and then on the inner layer, which would involve taking it apart again to clean up.


b

Oh, if I'm "stuck" @ 4%, that's fine. I'm a hair under 4% now w/o shimming. There is faint evidence of the feathering you mention on both L/R sides, but is not particularly offensive (but I know it's there!).

If shimming the CRT array will get me even the same as I have now, but w/o the edge issues (plus the other ancillary benefits of shoving a more dense image onto the screen), I think it'll be worth the effort.

A optics cleaning is likely due soon, so I'll surely knock out the shimming stuff @ maybe some additional "blackening out" of reflective stuff @ the same time (BEFORE cleaning, of course!)

ALL o'scan redux will cause more feathering out at the sides than w/o it, which is one reason they do it in the first place, to hide things like that. But shimming will give you the LEAST amount of feathering to have to worry about. You'll have to expand your image out again to at least where it was before to get the real benefits, of course, so hopefully it hasn't been too long since your original o'scanning was done, so you won't have to worry about the aging footprint on the guns.

If the aging footprint is definitely an issue, try the l/r shimming technique of aiming the red and blue guns a bit towards center - about half an inch each - to keep the image centered rather than the option of moving the pic sideways in sm once it's been forward shimmed. Don't move just the lens, the entire gun has to be shimmed on one side - I believe it's the outside of each - to re-aim those guns properly and make them recenter on the green properly once shimmed up towards the mirror. Scheimpflug should not be an issue any way you do it, with such a meager amount of s/s shimming of the red and blue.

Also keep in mind that the image you see when looking directly down the lenses is upside down and backwards from how it appears on your viewscreen. Think of a pinhole camera, for watching an eclipse, and how that works...



b

Finally found the answer to a very irritating phenom I was encountering on the grayscale of the uxw I have been working on. Its blue drive was thru the roof, and there was no attenuation of the blue drive, no blue drive reg to attenuate. Only red and green, and those could not be increased enough to match the blue, leaving the blue up at an overbearing level no matter where anything else was set.

I found that increasing the level of ALL of the cutoffs helped. But not really enough. I knew that the cutoffs and drives are interactive, so this was a step in the right direction. But I didn't want to get THAT far off the beaten path, that far off from the cutoff centerpoints.

So I looked at the range, and found that at 88 I was not all that far off of the 7A centerpoint for the cutoffs. But it was still not cutting it. Having the blue cutoff that high was helping, but not enough.

I realized that the Screen control was set badly, and just on the blue. You can reduce/increase the bias raster level in the darks 2 ways - the cutoff regs and the Screen trimpots. The cutoff regs are interactive with the drive controls. Or with the drive levels, I should say, as on the Hits there are no blue drive controls. The Screen controls, however, are NOT interactive with the drive controls. With the drive levels yes, but not with the drive controls. Or should I say their electronic equivalents in the circuitry, as there is no drive control for the blue as such. But there is blue drive circuitry, that is interactive with the blue cutoff regs.

So I played with the blue screen trimpot instead, and found a setting where the blue cutoff didn't have to be so high, where it was interacting with the drive level and pushing it up, keeping both rather high. Too high. By redoing the screen trimpot on blue, I was able to achieve a blue cutoff setting of 57 instead of 88, which left the blue drive level down where it needed to be to bond correctly with the drive levels of the red and green.

I finally was able to score a bulls-eye on my D6500K on that unit, on HIGH of course.

This has only happened once before that I can recall, many years ago. Hopefully I'll remember it sooner next time! The other day I was up till 6am knocking my head against the wall about why I was not able to get that blue drive in line! Had to finally quit and flop with it still out, which did NOT lend to easy sleep!

I caught up on that sleep last night, after finally nailing it! Slept like a baby...

:p


b

Finally found the answer to a very irritating phenom I was encountering...

b

BTW, since I calibrate very few Hit's and had not seen this problem for years, at one point it became very tempting to just go to the owner and say, "Sorry, Hits are just like that, nothing can be done about it..."

But then I thought back to all the exceptionally linear grayscales I have seen on this and other threads done by you guys, and I thought, "No, no, no, no, no...this can't be happening, I KNOW they are capable of linear grayscales..."

And I went back to the drawing board. They do NOT teach this kind of thing at ISF! They don't even coach you on how to redo the Screen settings. All my intuition had to come into play on this one, it was like playing 3 dimensional chess with Mr Spock...

Thanks, guys. Because of you I am a better calibrator, and obviously always learning...


;)


b

...But then I thought back to all the exceptionally linear grayscales I have seen on this and other threads done by you guys, and I thought, "No, no, no, no, no...this can't be happening, I KNOW they are capable of linear grayscales..."

And I went back to the drawing board. They do NOT teach this kind of thing at ISF! They don't even coach you on how to redo the Screen settings. All my intuition had to come into play on this one, it was like playing 3 dimensional chess with Mr Spock...

Thanks, guys. Because of you I am a better calibrator, and obviously always learning...


;)


b

The sign of a TRUE PROFESSIONAL!!!!

Great job Bob.

I finally was able to score a bulls-eye on my D6500K on that unit, on HIGH of course.

This has only happened once before that I can recall, many years ago. Hopefully I'll remember it sooner next time! The other day I was up till 6am knocking my head against the wall about why I was not able to get that blue drive in line! Had to finally quit and flop with it still out, which did NOT lend to easy sleep!

I caught up on that sleep last night, after finally nailing it! Slept like a baby...

:p


b

Then I guess I shouldn't remind you that Hitachi suggests setting HIGH at D10500K. :o
At least for the F59's.

Then I guess I shouldn't remind you that Hitachi suggests setting HIGH at D10500K. :o
At least for the F59's.

I don't think it matters if what you are really looking for is to calibrate to D6500K and you use the same temperature for all your inputs. What it was referred to was to calibrate Standard and then calibrate or change High. As mentioned before, and as we know, by changing High standard will change too.

Finally found the answer to a very irritating phenom I was encountering on the grayscale of the uxw I have been working on. Its blue drive was thru the roof, and there was no attenuation of the blue drive, no blue drive reg to attenuate. Only red and green, and those could not be increased enough to match the blue, leaving the blue up at an overbearing level no matter where anything else was set.

I found that increasing the level of ALL of the cutoffs helped. But not really enough. I knew that the cutoffs and drives are interactive, so this was a step in the right direction. But I didn't want to get THAT far off the beaten path, that far off from the cutoff centerpoints.

So I looked at the range, and found that at 88 I was not all that far off of the 7A centerpoint for the cutoffs. But it was still not cutting it. Having the blue cutoff that high was helping, but not enough.

I realized that the Screen control was set badly, and just on the blue. You can reduce/increase the bias raster level in the darks 2 ways - the cutoff regs and the Screen trimpots. The cutoff regs are interactive with the drive controls. Or with the drive levels, I should say, as on the Hits there are no blue drive controls. The Screen controls, however, are NOT interactive with the drive controls. With the drive levels yes, but not with the drive controls. Or should I say their electronic equivalents in the circuitry, as there is no drive control for the blue as such. But there is blue drive circuitry, that is interactive with the blue cutoff regs.

So I played with the blue screen trimpot instead, and found a setting where the blue cutoff didn't have to be so high, where it was interacting with the drive level and pushing it up, keeping both rather high. Too high. By redoing the screen trimpot on blue, I was able to achieve a blue cutoff setting of 57 instead of 88, which left the blue drive level down where it needed to be to bond correctly with the drive levels of the red and green.

I finally was able to score a bulls-eye on my D6500K on that unit, on HIGH of course.

This has only happened once before that I can recall, many years ago. Hopefully I'll remember it sooner next time! The other day I was up till 6am knocking my head against the wall about why I was not able to get that blue drive in line! Had to finally quit and flop with it still out, which did NOT lend to easy sleep!

I caught up on that sleep last night, after finally nailing it! Slept like a baby...

:p


b

Hi Bob,

Persistence pays off, doesn't it? Kudos to you for getting past the speed bump! I had to adjust the G2 on my Hitachi 51F59A for exactly the same reason. Blue was too strong and caused problems with grayscale. Hitachi is famous for a "blue hump" in the grayscale and mine seemed worse and at a different grayscale range than anything I'd seen before. On a dark screen you could peer into the CRTs and see blue shining away and reducing the Blue cut did not help much. Red and Green were not shining nearly as bright as Blue did in a dark screen.

Adjusting G2 is a last resort adjustment for me, as it represents a "no turning back" situation. I mustered up the courage and went forward with the G2 adjustment. In fact it took me a couple tries to get it right. But after the second go-around the grayscale is nice and linear with just a little bit of aggressive gamma at the low end. The aggressive gamma shows up in the calibration report but does not seem to bother normal program material. Shadow detail is good. Even the Hitachi "Blue hump" is gone!

I like the Hitachi sets of that vintage. Some of the build quality on my set doesn't match what Hitachi used to do, but at least it calibrates well.

I hope the owner enjoys the UWX!

Adjusting G2 is a last resort adjustment for me, as it represents a "no turning back" situation. I mustered up the courage and went forward with the G2 adjustment. In fact it took me a couple tries to get it right. But after the second go-around the grayscale is nice and linear with just a little bit of aggressive gamma at the low end. The aggressive gamma shows up in the calibration report but does not seem to bother normal program material. Shadow detail is good. Even the Hitachi "Blue hump" is gone!

Great! A NEW way for me to total my set. Maybe I'll try it on the OLD blue gun first, eh?

Great! A NEW way for me to total my set. Maybe I'll try it on the OLD blue gun first, eh?

If you don't have a blue hump, why mess with it???

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

:D


b

Then I guess I shouldn't remind you that Hitachi suggests setting HIGH at D10500K. :o
At least for the F59's.

Directs is more the word, not suggests. It was one of the richest laughs I had that day, that I'd had that year...

:D

Isn't it amazing how great a set they build, yet how misguiding some of their technical direction is???

:rolleyes:

b

Before I get any women out there that might read this outraged about what I'm about to write (my wife for example), this is just as a joke side comment on having a permanent broken tv.

Ask your wife to use a plastic bag as a purse, hey it holds her stuff as well as a real purse!

Haha yeah it's like having a Lamborghini or Ferrari and having a big scratch on it... sure when you don't notice the scratch the car is still OMG but when you see the scratch the beauty of the machine is tainted and you can no longer focus on anything but the scratch...

I love my wife but comes to tech stuff she's blind and deaf. To her the only difference in TV's are some are bigger than others. To her the only difference in speakers are that some are louder than others.. to her my hobbies are useless wastes of time and money. :/

Anyway I did have a talk with her last night for a little bit. She basically said my screen will get fixed at some point in the next year... I told her we need to jump on this before used sets and parts become too rare. She says the longer we wait the more parts and used sets we'll find.

Ryan

Haha yeah it's like having a Lamborghini or Ferrari and having a big scratch on it... sure when you don't notice the scratch the car is still OMG but when you see the scratch the beauty of the machine is tainted and you can no longer focus on anything but the scratch...

I love my wife but comes to tech stuff she's blind and deaf. To her the only difference in TV's are some are bigger than others. To her the only difference in speakers are that some are louder than others.. to her my hobbies are useless wastes of time and money. :/

Anyway I did have a talk with her last night for a little bit. She basically said my screen will get fixed at some point in the next year... I told her we need to jump on this before used sets and parts become too rare. She says the longer we wait the more parts and used sets we'll find.

Ryan

Only thing I can say ...I feel your pain brother. Unless you want to get divorced over a tv?! and then it'll become really expensive, and worst she'll probably keep the tv. :mad:

If you don't have a blue hump, why mess with it???

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

:D


b

Come on, where's the fun in that?!
Besides, what would YOU do if I left everything alone?!
;)

Come on, where's the fun in that?!
Besides, what would YOU do if I left everything alone?!
;)

You got me...

:D

Looking forward to our little blue gun project on the phone.

I fly back home from my tour in Maryland later today, to get in late tonight.


b

Haha yeah it's like having a Lamborghini or Ferrari and having a big scratch on it... sure when you don't notice the scratch the car is still OMG but when you see the scratch the beauty of the machine is tainted and you can no longer focus on anything but the scratch...

I love my wife but comes to tech stuff she's blind and deaf. To her the only difference in TV's are some are bigger than others. To her the only difference in speakers are that some are louder than others.. to her my hobbies are useless wastes of time and money. :/

Anyway I did have a talk with her last night for a little bit. She basically said my screen will get fixed at some point in the next year... I told her we need to jump on this before used sets and parts become too rare. She says the longer we wait the more parts and used sets we'll find.

Ryan

The fact that your wife apparently has no regard for what is important to you is of great concern. Unless the expenditure is irresponsible due to your financial situation there should be no issue and your wife should be happy to make you happy, the same should apply if the situation was reversed.
If such a simple situation is enough to cause marital friction, now may be a good time to revaluate your life choices. Life is short, don’t waste it.

Haha yeah it's like having a Lamborghini or Ferrari and having a big scratch on it... sure when you don't notice the scratch the car is still OMG but when you see the scratch the beauty of the machine is tainted and you can no longer focus on anything but the scratch...

I love my wife but comes to tech stuff she's blind and deaf. To her the only difference in TV's are some are bigger than others. To her the only difference in speakers are that some are louder than others.. to her my hobbies are useless wastes of time and money. :/

Anyway I did have a talk with her last night for a little bit. She basically said my screen will get fixed at some point in the next year... I told her we need to jump on this before used sets and parts become too rare. She says the longer we wait the more parts and used sets we'll find.

Ryan

The fact that your wife apparently has no regard for what is important to you is of great concern. Unless the expenditure is irresponsible due to your financial situation there should be no issue and your wife should be happy to make you happy, the same should apply if the situation was reversed.
If such a simple think is enough to cause marital friction, now may be a good time to revaluate your life choices. Life is short, don’t waste it.

I guess I dont understand blanking out very well. My set has what I call the end of the world black zone at the bottom and top if I take it to 0%. Its probably on the sides as well but I never mess with that.

I also have something I couldn't name until I read it just now as I caught up on post. It looks like speed bumps. Nothing bad but as the pic pans I can see this little wave or bump. What is that and why? It wasn't there before the shim but is now. It isn't very bad so I dont worry about it but if I can make it go away I will.

Uhhh Also why did you mention that blue hump thing with Hit's. Now I will be staring at it to see if mine has it. I will be checking my Grayscale setting now.

I also have something I couldn't name until I read it just now as I caught up on post. It looks like speed bumps. Nothing bad but as the pic pans I can see this little wave or bump. What is that and why? It wasn't there before the shim but is now. It isn't very bad so I dont worry about it but if I can make it go away I will.

Speed bumps are caused by geometry. Your vertical spacing isn't perfect, so verticals such as movie credits speed up and slow down.
Put up a geometry grid and take a ruler (gently) to the screen. You will find a row of boxes that are shorter or taller than the adjacent rows. That's the one you need to fix.
Need? Your call.
(But we know you by now!)

Speed bumps are caused by geometry. Your vertical spacing isn't perfect, so verticals such as movie credits speed up and slow down.
Put up a geometry grid and take a ruler (gently) to the screen. You will find a row of boxes that are shorter or taller than the adjacent rows. That's the one you need to fix.
Need? Your call.
(But we know you by now!)

Yep..I'll have ruler in hand by tomorrow. I guess the only way to fix it is with DCAM. I'm assuming I will have to do the string method and move each vertical line and then reconverge them in the correct spot. I'm also assuming that I need to use the center 2 or 3 lines as the pattern. I notice it on the sides but not so much in the center. Could be a trick on my eyes also though. All guesses here though. Any quick post I can go to without searching and searching would be nice to have.

P.S> I'm like you. If there were no more tweaks left what would be the fun. Hope your set gets back to that level you had it at. Man that thing rocked.

Also these last 2 pages of stuff from Bob, you and the guys was great. I was out of town and caught up today. Great stuff. Still didn't want to know my set was prone to BLUE HUMP:eek::eek:

I don't know how you guys get those awsome pics of the screen. I suspect the camera I'm using can't take accurate pics of a screen.. either that or I don't know how to set my camera up for this...

This is a capture of No Country For Old Men (1080i). It was photoshopped a little to try to bring it as close as I could to what I actually see on the screen (image sharpened and some reds reduced also I'm sure that since I'm viewing the pic on an LCD monitor changes it as well). In person this scene looks much much better with more detail, better color, and none of the darkening near the bottom of the screen.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x27/Dodkrieg/ncfom.jpg

I got the input board replaced today and I'm sure they swapped the DCU and put my original one on the new board but all of my setting were erased. Some of the Service menu tweaks look like the defaulted back to factory. The Color and Tint settings are much much more rich than before and must be toned down a lot which made it really hard to get the skin tones to look natural as they either looked too red or too pale. I had to change the Color Temp to high to get white to look white. Standard and Medium have a yellow tint to them now. One good thing is my set has a much sharper picture overall and the blurry sides are almost gone (not quite gone but tons better than before). I'm starting to get used to how the picture looks now but I feel like the colors where more natural before the swap, it's almost like there is too much yellow and red by a little bit.. I dunno maybe my colors were off before.. I guess once I get the screen replaced I should save up for ISF calibration.

Ryan

Only thing I can say ...I feel your pain brother. Unless you want to get divorced over a tv?! and then it'll become really expensive, and worst she'll probably keep the tv. :mad:

The fact that your wife apparently has no regard for what is important to you is of great concern. Unless the expenditure is irresponsible due to your financial situation there should be no issue and your wife should be happy to make you happy, the same should apply if the situation was reversed.
If such a simple think is enough to cause marital friction, now may be a good time to revaluate your life choices. Life is short, don’t waste it.

Heh no getting a divorce over a TV. I've probably been a little over dramatic about it but it is something I want fixed ASAP.

The expenditure isn't exactly irresponsible but it's also not quite the best investment at the moment. It's not like we'd be missing a car payment or rent or something like that but that another topic all together... hehe

We got most of it out of our system and at least I've gotten her to agree that the TV will be fixed at some point in the future so I suppose I should happy in that fact. Most of the problem is neither of us want to spend $400+ on something like this as it could be put to better use if this event hadn't happened but that's part of the price of having kids sometimes I suppose haha. Who knows though, maybe it'll be for the better and I can grab the 57" or 65" version of the TV or have another 51" around for parts so I can keep this TV around for as long as possible.

Ryan

Just got home tonite from the weeklong Baltimore tour. There were 4 big screens to work on and only 7 days to do them in, so tonite is the first time I have had a chance to breathe a bit and contemplate which pix to send up.

These are the Befores of Steve Mock's Pioneer Elite 710. I will get others up here soon, including the shimming op and Afters -

The most noticeable deficiencies in his display were the optics needing cleaning, the pic was dim and overscanned, and of course the horrendous grayscale. He was nearing the edge on putting up with that pesky overscan, and the shimming op finally gave him the relief he's been looking for.

The purple pix were taken the first night, which was when the grayscale had to be done because of little light isolation in the daytime. The optics cleaning had to be done before the grayscale could be done.

The structure shots were taken the next day, after the grayscale had already been dealt with and restored. You can do the structure with little light iso, but not the grayscale.

Optics dirty, letters cut off by the overscan

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7364/22209stevemock710baltimi.jpg[/URL]

Grayscale horrendous

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6295/22209stevemock710baltims.jpg[/URL]

Pic after cleaning and grayscale but before restoring of the original light levels, along with other user settings needing to be way off center to deliver decent fleshtones, but before the rest of the work, where those got recentered

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]


huge overscan - observe the upper left corner, where the graphics are cut off at the knees. That's just the top, the bottom was the same -

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

OOB overscan and uncentered positioning

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2644/22209stevemock710baltimd.jpg[/URL]

still grossly overscanned OOB, but at least re-centered before taking it in via the shimming op

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7374/22209stevemock710baltimv.jpg[/URL]

Dim pic at Black Level zero, requiring increasing it way out of spec

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1153/22209stevemock710baltimq.jpg[/URL]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]


More soon -

b

From another thead -


I've been pondering getting a new plasma to replace my 7-year-old Toshiba 56H80. It still works OK, but the images have degraded over time and have become quite cloudy.

Just before I made the plasma plunge, I decided to give the old set one last try. Removed the screen (really easy -- just two retaining leg screws) and voila!

The lenses were caked with a thick film of dirt, which I wiped clean. The mirror, surprisingly, was fine. Here is a pic of the clean vs. dirty lenses:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu85/metlc/Toshiba005.jpg

Total time, around an hour and a half. The result? Like brand new. Didn't tell my wife, and when she clicked it on.... "WOW! Don't think we need a new TV now!"

Excellent pic! Looks just like what I find every time I open up a CRT RPTV, after cleaning the first lens.

Be sure you have cleaned your deeper optics - under your lenses, 6 more surfaces - and that you are NOT using any sort of dry method, including just wiping them off with a dry cloth. Those plastic surfaces are DEATHLY sensitive to being scratched/scuffed, and that's permanent damage if your cleaning techniques are wrong. Do NOT use any sort of dry method, and I don't advise using microfibre cloth either, because of its very lame absorbtion quotient.

If your deeper optics on a Tosh have not been cleaned, you're only halfway there. They are just as dirty as the lenses shown here. Your mirror is also dirty, tho it takes special procedures to see it. Shine a strong flashlight - like one of those super bright multi-LEDs - onto it from the side at a steep angle and you'll see what I mean.

Wait till you get your ENTIRE light path crystal clear again!

On a Tosh and many other brands including Pioneers and Hitachis, 10 surfaces need to be cleaned to restore the light path to crystal clear status again. On others, like Mits HDready's, whose coolant covers are sealed correctly, you only need to do 4 of them. In either case, intense care needs to be taken to not do permanent damage to them, once the years - and the static caused by the 30KV of HV inherent in CRT use - have locked that dust, dirt and grit onto those surfaces. ALL lenses in CRT RPTV tech are PLASTIC, not glass. The only glass in there is usually the mirror, and it's a front suface mirror, with the glass on the other side. As such extreme care needs to be taken to not strip it with any cleaning agent that might do so. No ammonia if you intend to do it over and over again over the years - I suggest once a year is minimum - and no solvents of any kind.

But unless it's a mylar mirror - in which case never touch it except to replace it with a glass front/first surface mirror, which will deliver better colors, better blacks and 25% more light level than a mylar - the mirror will need cleaning EVERY time.


b

Hello,

I thought a little more explanation of "Blue hump" may be appropriate. As mentioned in a previous post Blue was out of control on our 51F59A. Attached please find a jpg showing the RBG colors across the IRE range of black (on the far left) to white (on the far right). Ideally all colors will line up as flat and on top of each other if at D65. Take a look at the Blue gun. On the far edges of black and white blue falls off in intensity. In all of the mid-IRE levels Blue rises in a hump. I won't take credit for the phrase "blue hump". I heard it from Bill Gambrell several years ago. Bill was an ISF calibrator. I'm not sure of he's still calibrating or not. I've seen "Blue hump" in other sets, but more frequently in Hitachi RP CRT for some reason. What this chart fails to capture is how much the Blue gun shone at a black screen.

When calibrating you cannot bias the grayscale toward +Green, so you must leave the set +Blue. With the hump in Blue you are left with little option in grayscale but to bias toward blue, keeping in mind to get the black performance as good as possible and sacrifice grayscale at white. It's a compromise.

I lived with the set like this for a long while until I got enough courage to attack G2 or the screen pots. Altering these pots is not recommended as it trashes the grayscale of the set. Further if G2 is turned up too high CRT damage can occur. Please don't try this at home! You need instrumentation, patience and a very good reason to perform this adjustment. This was my first attempt at G2. Like Bob says this is not taught by the ISF! It is a skill learned on the job. It took two attempts to get G2 better. My first attempt at altering the G2 screen pots left my set with an inability to get enough Blue for a proper grayscale. In effect I overcompensated and threw it the other way! The second attempt left me with enough range in the Blue cut (there is no Blue drive in Hit RP CRT) to get a decent calibration.

Attached please find a jpg showing the after G2 intervention RGB plot. Actually it is more of a calibration report. Look at the graph in the lower left hand corner for the RGB/IRE chart and you'll see a much flatter Blue (and Red for that matter) across 20-100 IRE. The "Blue hump" was tamed.

The "Blue hump" and raised Blue gun level in our set was the worst I've seen and should not be taken as typical performance of Hitachi RP CRT!

Cheers

Hello,

I thought a little more explanation of "Blue hump" may be appropriate. As mentioned in a previous post Blue was out of control on our 51F59A. Attached please find a jpg showing the RBG colors across the IRE range of black (on the far left) to white (on the far right). Ideally all colors will line up as flat and on top of each other if at D65. Take a look at the Blue gun. On the far edges of black and white blue falls off in intensity. In all of the mid-IRE levels Blue rises in a hump. I won't take credit for the phrase "blue hump". I heard it from Bill Gambrell several years ago. Bill was an ISF calibrator. I'm not sure of he's still calibrating or not. I've seen "Blue hump" in other sets, but more frequently in Hitachi RP CRT for some reason. What this chart fails to capture is how much the Blue gun shone at a black screen.

When calibrating you cannot bias the grayscale toward +Green, so you must leave the set +Blue. With the hump in Blue you are left with little option in grayscale but to bias toward blue, keeping in mind to get the black performance as good as possible and sacrifice grayscale at white. It's a compromise.

I lived with the set like this for a long while until I got enough courage to attack G2 or the screen pots. Altering these pots is not recommended as it trashes the grayscale of the set. Further if G2 is turned up too high CRT damage can occur. Please don't try this at home! You need instrumentation, patience and a very good reason to perform this adjustment. This was my first attempt at G2. Like Bob says this is not taught by the ISF! It is a skill learned on the job. It took two attempts to get G2 better. My first attempt at altering the G2 screen pots left my set with an inability to get enough Blue for a proper grayscale. In effect I overcompensated and threw it the other way! The second attempt left me with enough range in the Blue cut (there is no Blue drive in Hit RP CRT) to get a decent calibration.

Attached please find a jpg showing the after G2 intervention RGB plot. Actually it is more of a calibration report. Look at the graph in the lower left hand corner for the RGB/IRE chart and you'll see a much flatter Blue (and Red for that matter) across 20-100 IRE. The "Blue hump" was tamed.

The "Blue hump" and raised Blue gun level in our set was the worst I've seen and should not be taken as typical performance of Hitachi RP CRT!

Cheers

Thanks for the info. The graph tells the story. I haven't noticed it on mine but then again I have not the expertise or equipment to really get at it.

Mr. Bob,

That set was in real bad shape before you put your hands on it. Mostly neglect I think and no regular maintenance. I really would love to see the after pics.

Mr. Bob,

That set was in real bad shape before you put your hands on it. Mostly neglect I think and no regular maintenance. I really would love to see the after pics.

They are in the can and on their way to here as soon as I have a bit more time. Hopefully by the end of the weekend -


b

Hello,

I thought a little more explanation of "Blue hump" may be appropriate. As mentioned in a previous post Blue was out of control on our 51F59A. Attached please find a jpg showing the RBG colors across the IRE range of black (on the far left) to white (on the far right). Ideally all colors will line up as flat and on top of each other if at D65. Take a look at the Blue gun. On the far edges of black and white blue falls off in intensity. In all of the mid-IRE levels Blue rises in a hump. I won't take credit for the phrase "blue hump". I heard it from Bill Gambrell several years ago. Bill was an ISF calibrator. I'm not sure of he's still calibrating or not. I've seen "Blue hump" in other sets, but more frequently in Hitachi RP CRT for some reason. What this chart fails to capture is how much the Blue gun shone at a black screen.

When calibrating you cannot bias the grayscale toward +Green, so you must leave the set +Blue. With the hump in Blue you are left with little option in grayscale but to bias toward blue, keeping in mind to get the black performance as good as possible and sacrifice grayscale at white. It's a compromise.

I lived with the set like this for a long while until I got enough courage to attack G2 or the screen pots. Altering these pots is not recommended as it trashes the grayscale of the set. Further if G2 is turned up too high CRT damage can occur. Please don't try this at home! You need instrumentation, patience and a very good reason to perform this adjustment. This was my first attempt at G2. Like Bob says this is not taught by the ISF! It is a skill learned on the job. It took two attempts to get G2 better. My first attempt at altering the G2 screen pots left my set with an inability to get enough Blue for a proper grayscale. In effect I overcompensated and threw it the other way! The second attempt left me with enough range in the Blue cut (there is no Blue drive in Hit RP CRT) to get a decent calibration.

Attached please find a jpg showing the after G2 intervention RGB plot. Actually it is more of a calibration report. Look at the graph in the lower left hand corner for the RGB/IRE chart and you'll see a much flatter Blue (and Red for that matter) across 20-100 IRE. The "Blue hump" was tamed.

The "Blue hump" and raised Blue gun level in our set was the worst I've seen and should not be taken as typical performance of Hitachi RP CRT!

Cheers

Luckily when only the blue is involved, ONLY the blue trimpot needs to be altered. Whenever you have an abberration on an otherwise good grayscale, it's best to NOT play with anything you don't have to.

In this case, knowing this full well I ONLY altered the blue, leaving the red and green trimpots completely alone. Which delivered in spades.


b

I have a HIT 57F59A what would cause the screen to pin cushion, I guess that's what you call it. When I'm watching Espn HD and the commercials go to 4:3 aspect ratio the black side bars on the screen bend towards the outside of the screen. It's pretty bad they bow out about one 1 inch at the top and bottom of the the screen. Thanks for the help.

Same display as from the pix above, sent in earlier. More about the cal itself later -

b

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3613/22209stevemock710baltimn.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7150/22209stevemock710baltiml.jpg[/URL]

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8270/22209stevemock710baltimp.jpg[/URL]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6200/22209stevemock710baltimo.jpg[/URL]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2014/22209stevemock710baltime.jpg[/URL]

Sorry about the slight focussing blurriness on this one and on the Lilu pic above; it was camera error, not display error, display stayed the same in all the After shots. The colorations were very delicate, so I decided to keep it

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8411/22209stevemock710baltimh.jpg[/URL]

2 different exposure settings on cam, display remains the same. Cam's up/downloaded dynamic range nowhere near as good as display's, as evidenced best on the fur hitting white crush in the second pic while the guy's backside is still challenged for shadow detail. The display had no problem with getting all of that right, as the settings on the display never changed yet showed it all when the best parts of both pix are observed.

The camera/computer upload/imageshack hosting/download to this thread - not so much

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9716/22209stevemock710baltim.jpg[/URL]

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7374/22209stevemock710baltimv.jpg[/URL]

Hello,

I thought a little more explanation of "Blue hump" may be appropriate. As mentioned in a previous post Blue was out of control on our 51F59A. Attached please find a jpg showing the RBG colors across the IRE range of black (on the far left) to white (on the far right). Ideally all colors will line up as flat and on top of each other if at D65. Take a look at the Blue gun. On the far edges of black and white blue falls off in intensity. In all of the mid-IRE levels Blue rises in a hump. I won't take credit for the phrase "blue hump". I heard it from Bill Gambrell several years ago. Bill was an ISF calibrator. I'm not sure of he's still calibrating or not. I've seen "Blue hump" in other sets, but more frequently in Hitachi RP CRT for some reason. What this chart fails to capture is how much the Blue gun shone at a black screen.

When calibrating you cannot bias the grayscale toward +Green, so you must leave the set +Blue. With the hump in Blue you are left with little option in grayscale but to bias toward blue, keeping in mind to get the black performance as good as possible and sacrifice grayscale at white. It's a compromise.

I lived with the set like this for a long while until I got enough courage to attack G2 or the screen pots. Altering these pots is not recommended as it trashes the grayscale of the set. Further if G2 is turned up too high CRT damage can occur. Please don't try this at home! You need instrumentation, patience and a very good reason to perform this adjustment. This was my first attempt at G2. Like Bob says this is not taught by the ISF! It is a skill learned on the job. It took two attempts to get G2 better. My first attempt at altering the G2 screen pots left my set with an inability to get enough Blue for a proper grayscale. In effect I overcompensated and threw it the other way! The second attempt left me with enough range in the Blue cut (there is no Blue drive in Hit RP CRT) to get a decent calibration.

Attached please find a jpg showing the after G2 intervention RGB plot. Actually it is more of a calibration report. Look at the graph in the lower left hand corner for the RGB/IRE chart and you'll see a much flatter Blue (and Red for that matter) across 20-100 IRE. The "Blue hump" was tamed.

The "Blue hump" and raised Blue gun level in our set was the worst I've seen and should not be taken as typical performance of Hitachi RP CRT!

Cheers

Adjusting G2 (screen) levels is just not that big of a deal on Hitachis. In fact, on most sets, other than Mitsubishi and some Philips sets, it can easily and safely be done. Just about the only way that you will damage your CRTs is if you are in the service mode with the vertical collapsed and either turn it up too much or power down with it to high. With normal video sources, you will simply alter your gray scale. Most televisions will operate within a very wide range of G2 levels with no damage whatsoever. Some will be touchy about opertating with a decent (or even any) pix, like the Mits sets with auto bias circuits that behave poorly, but you will not likely damage a tube even on these.

Better advice than cautioning against making G2 adjustments would be to be sure that one understands the manufacturer recommendations from the service manual before adjusting anything. Start with that and then only deviate as needed to get good gray scale tracking. This is one of my differences with ISF. They recommend staying away from service menus and service oriented adjustments for the most part. Many calibrators never even review a service manual before attempting adjustments. In my opinion, this is simply unnacceptable practice. I never go on any service call or calibration without reviewing the service literature for relevant information if it is available.

That said, other than messing up your gray scale, and causing video to blank or the set to shut down in some cases, one is unlikely to do permanent damage by adjusting G2 levels. If you get good blacks, gamma, and gray scale tracking, it is almost certain you are operating within safe ranges for the CRT. If you don't, you either need to go back to the manual and review the procedure or you have a CRT that has aged out, if everything else is working and adjusted normally.

Aging CRTs often need G2 levels adjusted. It is not something that should be feared nor discouraged any more than any other adjustment. One should simply do the homework and research, and mark the settings that the set begins with.

Whew...what a dif that calibration made Bob. I can only imagine the shock of the sets owner!!!

Figured I, too, would start with "before" shots (especially since I'm not calling Mr. Bob until tomorrow).

This is the inside of the (current) blue gun. Notice the horizontal line across the middle. That shows up as a yellow line on a white screen (absence of blue) or a black line on a blue screen (absence of blue [d'oh]).

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1710/p1020522.jpg

Of course, the smudge in the top left corner (that's INSIDE the lens) is no doubt responsible for some junk somewhere, so, hopefully, I'll notice other improvements with the new gun.

The new gun:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9391/p1020521.jpg

Big. Heavy. Expensive.

The back of the set with the rear panel removed. Remember: no user serviceable parts inside.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6929/p1020520.jpg

The core assembly removed from the set (see page 110 of the service manual). The lens has been removed from the blue gun.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5089/p1020523.jpg

Interesting note: removing the three screws on each side allows the lens assembly to be removed from the core (can you say "shimming"?). So it remains to be seen if I will be tempted to try shimming the array when I put everything back together. Stay tuned.
And keep your fingers crossed!
Michael

Figured I, too, would start with "before" shots (especially since I'm not calling Mr. Bob until tomorrow).

This is the inside of the (current) blue gun. Notice the horizontal line across the middle. That shows up as a yellow line on a white screen (absence of blue) or a black line on a blue screen (absence of blue [d'oh]).

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1710/p1020522.jpg

Of course, the smudge in the top left corner (that's INSIDE the lens) is no doubt responsible for some junk somewhere, so, hopefully, I'll notice other improvements with the new gun.

The new gun:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9391/p1020521.jpg

Big. Heavy. Expensive.

The back of the set with the rear panel removed. Remember: no user serviceable parts inside.

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6929/p1020520.jpg

The core assembly removed from the set (see page 110 of the service manual). The lens has been removed from the blue gun.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5089/p1020523.jpg

Interesting note: removing the three screws on each side allows the lens assembly to be removed from the core (can you say "shimming"?). So it remains to be seen if I will be tempted to try shimming the array when I put everything back together. Stay tuned.
And keep your fingers crossed!
Michael

Your already lucky because you dont have those 3 crazy screws on the sides mine had. Of course with everything out like this it wouldn't matter. One thing is that you have to leave it loose if you shim so you know how far to slide it forward or backwards. Still this would be a great time to do it.

You are one brave soul Michael. I cannot believe that you are going to try this:eek: I cant believe you already did that much. Still if my set was as good as yours was before I would have to do it too. It would hurt to much to go and buy a Plasma or LCD and know what I was missing after having the HIT.

Hey everyone remember the problem i had last time with the pink tint issue. Well i fixed that problem by opening the speaker panel and then the wooded panel and then i just took out those 3 white front wires and that issue was gone but now the problem i have is i have a green tint issue and i do not no what to do cause right now i do not have the money to get the tv repaired so can anyone help me out here if you no what the problem might be.

I have a HIT 57F59A what would cause the screen to pin cushion, I guess that's what you call it. When I'm watching Espn HD and the commercials go to 4:3 aspect ratio the black side bars on the screen bend towards the outside of the screen. It's pretty bad they bow out about one 1 inch at the top and bottom of the the screen. Thanks for the help.

Banshee 79,

Welcome to this Forum!

There's no pin cushion control in the Hit service menu. Did someone change the overscan pots? Those pots may affect geometry in a negative way.

The only way to correct the pin cushion is to perform a service level (DCAM) geometry and convergence adjustment using a fixed reference like the string method or a template. You can try to correct the pin cushion by eye, but using a fixed reference is more accurate. Correct Green first, then match Blue and Red to Green. Good luck!

Your already lucky because you dont have those 3 crazy screws on the sides mine had. Of course with everything out like this it wouldn't matter. One thing is that you have to leave it loose if you shim so you know how far to slide it forward or backwards. Still this would be a great time to do it.


http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/3966/p1020524.jpg

THOSE screws?! Even with an offset phillips screwdriver (which I just so happen to have), that would take forever. This way is not only very easy, but outlined (sort of) in the service manual, so bravery is not a factor.
Sucker is heavy, though.
I have several Home Depot paint sticks ready to act as shims, so we'll see how that goes. I'm just worried that I'm already at the end of my picture at the top and bottom. Stay tuned.

THOSE screws?! Even with an offset phillips screwdriver (which I just so happen to have), that would take forever. This way is not only very easy, but outlined (sort of) in the service manual, so bravery is not a factor.
Sucker is heavy, though.
I have several Home Depot paint sticks ready to act as shims, so we'll see how that goes. I'm just worried that I'm already at the end of my picture at the top and bottom. Stay tuned.

Wow Michael... you are ahead of schedule, looking good!!! In your case you can try he shimming by using the smaller shims first, and adjusting from there.

Looking good.

Hey everyone remember the problem i had last time with the pink tint issue. Well i fixed that problem by opening the speaker panel and then the wooded panel and then i just took out those 3 white front wires and that issue was gone but now the problem i have is i have a green tint issue and i do not no what to do cause right now i do not have the money to get the tv repaired so can anyone help me out here if you no what the problem might be.

DK what those white wires are for, much less why removing them would cure your pink issue. Model? Brand?

Green tint can be grayscale or color decoding, you need to be more specific about it. Is it there on a b/w pic, or only during color?


b

I'm just worried that I'm already at the end of my picture at the top and bottom. Stay tuned.

That's really hard to do when the 16x9 pic is pj'd from a 4x3 tube face. Unless you're talking about the aging footprint -


b

That's really hard to do when the 16x9 pic is pj'd from a 4x3 tube face. Unless you're talking about the aging footprint -


b

Since when is "hard to do" a deterrent?

(sorry for the repost, folks, but I couldn't find it looking back)

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3038/oscanafter.jpg

The top overscan is greater than the bottom because there's no picture above that border.
I'll look through the vertical settings once the set's plugged in again. Something may have gotten changed.

Since when is "hard to do" a deterrent?

(sorry for the repost, folks, but I couldn't find it looking back)

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3038/oscanafter.jpg

The top overscan is greater than the bottom because there's no picture above that border.
I'll look through the vertical settings once the set's plugged in again. Something may have gotten changed.

That would be blanking, then. On the uwx I just cal'd in Baltimore - make that Aberdeen, to be exact - the entire up/down range showed, all the way to the black wedge at zero. 1 wedge on top, one on bottom. But the sides were just like this, with one not showing as much as the other.

This is most uncommon, tho, have rarely seen it, for the blanking to be allowed to show the image completely at top and bottom. Usually it's like Michael said, part of the top or bottom is simply missing. That's a blanking setting on their end.

To get completely equilateral geometry, you can't show more on one than the other. Thus the shorter one determines how much can be shown of the longer one. You lose the rest, you simply have to let go of it.

That's much easier to do on the hor/sides than on the t/b, where game scores and menu edges reside. Sometimes you can get away with showing more on one edge than the other, as long as you make sure the circle stays a circle, completely uniform and equilateral in all directions. This is really simple to do, but still one of the most powerful secrets of achieving true suspension of disbelief in CRT tech.

Big ceiling pjs have blanking controls so you can be in complete control of this kind of thing. CRT RPTVs - not so much


b

DK what those white wires are for, much less why removing them would cure your pink issue. Model? Brand?

Green tint can be grayscale or color decoding, you need to be more specific about it. Is it there on a b/w pic, or only during color?


b

I just removed them and put them back resolved the pink issue but then after like 2 weeks a green tint stared to come and my tv is Hitachi 51f59a and i see the green color alot on people faces and skin and like other place in the pictuer.

I just removed them and put them back resolved the pink issue but then after like 2 weeks a green tint stared to come and my tv is Hitachi 51f59a and i see the green color alot on people faces and skin and like other place in the pictuer.

See what it looks like on a completely b/w picture.

b

That was fun. Really. Favorite line from Mr. Bob:
"Oh, you should probably be wearing safety glasses while you're doing that, just in case it shatters."
One of many pearls of wisdom. Seriously, it was a great comfort having him on the other end of the phone.

Here's the old gun. The circuit board on the bottom, the adjustment rings in the middle and the yoke on top need to be removed and transferred to the new one. Keeping them in exactly the same position makes setting up the new gun much easier.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4204/p1020528.jpg

And, of course, you all knew I couldn't resist, four paint sticks on each side. In addition to putting the assembly on top of the cabinet instead of underneath, added about an inch and a quarter.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9404/p1020529.jpg

Here's a view of the lenses, camera shooting into the mirror (new image to replace previous blurry one):

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1116/p1020534.jpg

I don't think it's likely to move (have I mentioned that the sucker is HEAVY), but I put in a screw on each side.

End result:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/953/p1020533.jpg

This is not calibrated or even adjusted, but, besides getting rid of the yellow line I created accidentally, I have noticed that the "globs" I had on the right edge and bottom are gone. Also, this blue is a lot sharper than I was ever able to get the old one. Not that I would have done this under normal circumstances, but it's nice to know I was able to solve several problems at once.

Next? Black fabric (since, obviously, painting again won't help), geometry, grayscale, and, finally, screenshots.
As always, my friends, stay tuned.

AND A HUGE "THANKS" TO MR. BOB.
:D
Michael

...

End result:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/953/p1020533.jpg

This is not calibrated or even adjusted, but, besides getting rid of the yellow line I created accidentally, I have noticed that the "globs" I had on the right edge and bottom are gone. Also, this blue is a lot sharper than I was ever able to get the old one. Not that I would have done this under normal circumstances, but it's nice to know I was able to solve several problems at once.

Next? Black fabric (since, obviously, painting again won't help), geometry, grayscale, and, finally, screenshots.
As always, my friends, stay tuned.

AND A HUGE "THANKS" TO MR. BOB.
:D
Michael

Congrats Michael!!! That oversacan looks KA!!!!

Now you got me pumped up to do my shimming next week!!! Superb job all the way around.:eek:

When your set it ready for prime time, which I'm sure it'll probably be by tomorrow, you can post some Colleen's shots in the Reference Material thread ... I'll be looking forward to it.:rolleyes: