Thank god I haven't had to worry about overscan. It's always been about 4.5 and I'm NOT going to try and get it better, it's fine for me. Haven't tried to crosshair with an actual picture up there, wouldn't know exactly how to adjust it. I might think I'm improving the picture, then it cuts to another shot and everyone has green hair!

Mine now sits @ 4% all around in terms of overscan.

When doing conv. adj against actual HD video, I'm using DVR'ed stuff that I pause. Same, obviously, with DVD video.

Yeah, trying to do that with actual moving video would be a bit of a challenge! ;)

Can someone help me get me set into DCAM mode. I can't for the life of me find the blue button inside the set. I looked at the instructions at the beginning of the thread and it's not clear which series of commands put the remote in DCAM mode and which puts the set in DCAM mode. Anyway I did try a couple of different command series that I saw there and nothing seemed to work. How do I get started?

Thanks

To put the set into DCAM mode without pressing blue button:

Press and hold [TV] key on remote then press [ASPECT]and release and press [9] and release, then press the [STOP] key on the remote (its the one w/ square icon on it in the VCR buttons at bottom of remote). Then release the [TV] key. When you pressed [STOP] the TV should display a code number briefly in large green font, then the DCAM grid should come up. ( if this doesn't work then release [TV] key before pressing the [STOP] key... I can't remember if you have to keep [TV] pressed down when you hit [STOP] or not.)

To put remote into DCAM mode is kind of tricky but here's what works for me:

Press and hold [TV] key, then press [MENU] and [INFO] in sequence. Release [TV] key. Press [TV] key and hold it again, this time press [0] then [1] in sequence, then release [TV] key. Finally, press and hold [TV] key one more time, and press [MENU] and [INFO] in sequence, and then release [TV] key. You should now be able to do DCAM functions.

To exit from DCAM grid screen:

press [PLAY] and release, then press [EXIT] and release. Might have to try this sequence a couple times to exit the DCAM screen. Once out of DCAM screen, take the remote out of DCAM mode by pressing and holding [TV] while you press and release [0] then press and release [1]. TV will power off if the remote is pointed at it when you do this.

A fix for blooming/haloing??

http://www.plexhometheater.com/articles/lensflareonrearprojectiontvs.html

Anyone have any experience with this??

What are you doing to me? :) Didn't you read that I'm almost done? If someone does that and reports success, I'll have no choice. And then I'll have to refocus and redo the DCAM... again. But it's tempting. Very tempting. Almost tempting enough to be the guinea pig.

Has any had a problem with the picture all of a sudden getting a little darker. I was watching tv an all of a sudden the picture seemed to get darker or not as bright. I didn't change any setting or anything and I am using Lee Baily's setting. There are sometimes when I am watching a show and it takes place during the night the tv is dark enough that I can't see what is going on. If I change the contrast to something around 50 - 60 it seems to help but I don't think you should have the contrast that high. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Has any had a problem with the picture all of a sudden getting a little darker. I was watching tv an all of a sudden the picture seemed to get darker or not as bright. I didn't change any setting or anything and I am using Lee Baily's setting. There are sometimes when I am watching a show and it takes place during the night the tv is dark enough that I can't see what is going on. If I change the contrast to something around 50 - 60 it seems to help but I don't think you should have the contrast that high. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
do you have the day/night timer on for the different day and night picture settings? this is the only thing i can think of.

To put the set into DCAM mode without pressing blue button:

Press and hold [TV] key on remote then press [ASPECT]and release and press [9] and release, then press the [STOP] key on the remote (its the one w/ square icon on it in the VCR buttons at bottom of remote). Then release the [TV] key. When you pressed [STOP] the TV should display a code number briefly in large green font, then the DCAM grid should come up. ( if this doesn't work then release [TV] key before pressing the [STOP] key... I can't remember if you have to keep [TV] pressed down when you hit [STOP] or not.)

To put remote into DCAM mode is kind of tricky but here's what works for me:

Press and hold [TV] key, then press [MENU] and [INFO] in sequence. Release [TV] key. Press [TV] key and hold it again, this time press [0] then [1] in sequence, then release [TV] key. Finally, press and hold [TV] key one more time, and press [MENU] and [INFO] in sequence, and then release [TV] key. You should now be able to do DCAM functions.

To exit from DCAM grid screen:

press [PLAY] and release, then press [EXIT] and release. Might have to try this sequence a couple times to exit the DCAM screen. Once out of DCAM screen, take the remote out of DCAM mode by pressing and holding [TV] while you press and release [0] then press and release [1]. TV will power off if the remote is pointed at it when you do this.

Thanks Vivat for your help. But for some reason my set won't go into DCAM mode. I tried both variations above, i.e. releasing the [TV] key then pressing stop or keeping the [TV] key depressed while pressing [stop] and nothing happenned.

Has anyone found another way in? I have looked for the alleged blue button inside and I can't see anything resembling a switch or button of any color resembling blue on or near any of the circuit boards. Can anyone offer any help in that regard?

Thanks!

Thanks Vivat for your help. But for some reason my set won't go into DCAM mode. I tried both variations above, i.e. releasing the [TV] key then pressing stop or keeping the [TV] key depressed while pressing [stop] and nothing happenned.

Has anyone found another way in? I have looked for the alleged blue button inside and I can't see anything resembling a switch or button of any color resembling blue on or near any of the circuit boards. Can anyone offer any help in that regard?

Thanks!

If you remove the front decorative cover, there is a wooden cover dead center with about 6 screws in it. Once you remove it, you can see the 2 main circuit boards, and the CRT necks. The board on your right has a small button on it that faces toward the front. It is located on the front edge near where the 2 boards meet. It should be light blue. This is on an F59 series TV, right? Also, what is the model number of your Hitachi remote control? If it is NOT the 4361S, the button functions for DCAM will be different.

Yep, I just send in my email too.


Just a HDMI shift update.....

Just fired off this email to Hitachi service:

I picked the first TV type from the list since mine isn't listed :)

I have a 51F59A CRT RPTV. Have had it since Oct '06 and love it. Did recently have the blue CRT replaced under warranty due to a manufacturing defect (all is well now, BTW).

My question concerns issues with the use of HDMI gear. I know that back in January, Hitachi released a service bulletin that gave service centers the service menu codes to enter to address the picture issues many were having when connecting HDMI gear to F59 series TVS. That "fix" has been implemented on mine and everything is fine. However, myself and many users that I have spoke with online still experience what is best referred to as "image shift"--a brief horizontal shift in the entire picture (usually to the left) that corrects itself within a couple of seconds. For me, this happens very infrequently when using a Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player via HDMI. (maybe once every 5-6 discs played).I have spoke to others--and recommended they contact you as well--who experience this (usually with cable/satellite boxes via HDMI) much more often. One F59 owner I have spoke with has this shift happen every few seconds and is obviously frustrated.

I spoke with the moderator of the HDMI discussion board @ the AVS Forum recently about this problem. He seemed to think that it may be a timing issue occuring during the conversion of the digital HDMI video signal over to the analog that a CRT display requires. If this (or something else) is the case, I know there are many F59 series owners that would appreciate the Hitachi engineering dept. looking into this problem. Hitachi took care of the previous HDMI issues the F59s were having. Let's hope you can do the same for this.

Thank you, and I look forward to a response.

Let you all know what I hear back ASAP.

do you have the day/night timer on for the different day and night picture settings? this is the only thing i can think of.

I do not have the day night timer on.

If you remove the front decorative cover, there is a wooden cover dead center with about 6 screws in it. Once you remove it, you can see the 2 main circuit boards, and the CRT necks. The board on your right has a small button on it that faces toward the front. It is located on the front edge near where the 2 boards meet. It should be light blue. This is on an F59 series TV, right? Also, what is the model number of your Hitachi remote control? If it is NOT the 4361S, the button functions for DCAM will be different.


I have seen this button on your left side as well, not always on your right. It has always faced forward, to you as you look in, tho. It's a blue button about 1/8" wide/round, on a white background that's about 3/8" square. The button assy is board mounted, on less than a half-inch square board footprint, but facing towards you rather then up to the sky, as most trimpots are mounted on boards.

It is usually somewhere close to the 2 sizing screwdriver pots, one hor and one vert, both with a little X that you fit your screwdriver into, and both of which also face you from the front edge of those boards in there.

Don't change these pots of course, but the blue button should be within an inch or 2 of these pots, usually to your left - their right - of them if viewing from the front.


Mr Bob

hmm i get image shift when my tv converts a progressive scan dvd to 1080i(threw my xbox, but i know the xbox is not the problem because games are fine). Also I use hdmi for my cable and have had no problems with image shift or color, and i didn't have to do the update(i have a newer 57f59a mabye thats why) so I am pretty sure the image shift is not a conversion problem with the tv converting hdmi from digital to analog.

Thanks Vivat for your help. But for some reason my set won't go into DCAM mode. I tried both variations above, i.e. releasing the [TV] key then pressing stop or keeping the [TV] key depressed while pressing [stop] and nothing happenned.

Has anyone found another way in? I have looked for the alleged blue button inside and I can't see anything resembling a switch or button of any color resembling blue on or near any of the circuit boards. Can anyone offer any help in that regard?

Thanks!

Here's a couple pics, forum member Ballz2TheWallz provided these pics in a DCAM guide a while back, might have been on another forum. I cropped them down for quicker load time on this forum:

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/ripsaw/a.jpg


http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/ripsaw/b.jpg

Thanks Vivat and Dr. Bob! I found the switch. I was looking for something larger and bluer I guess.

Anyway, I did a DCAM convergence no problem but my remote is different from others it's a 4362S and the instructions from the diy guide for initializing magic focus after doing a ROM write didn't work but I'm not sure that's a problem. I'll dig around a bit on the thread to see what's been said about that.

Thanks again.

K, in december i bought a Hitachi 51" 51F59. had it for about a month. got home from work one day and the tv had quite a few lines in the bottom. so many you couldnt rea the picture. and one thick line in the middle of it, which was displayin picture from another part of the screen. still under warranty, sent it to the shop to get it fixed. they had it for over a month (longer than i actually had it in my home) they delivered it back to me on Wednesday mornin. Figured it was fixed, watched tv. played quite a bit of my PS2. (socom in 540 i think) friday night, the same thing started happening again. woke up saturday, it was fine no lines AT ALL. shut the tv off to go to my sisters. once getting home turned it on. LINES WERE BACK!

i dont wanna send it back to the shop, for another month, and have the same thing happen.

whats hooked up to it is my PS2 with HD cables. HD cable box, with the HD cables. and my soround sound. we had a regular cable box hooked up to it for the majority of the month i had it, then switched to the HD box. shortly there after. it started.

I NEED HELP. dunno if its possible for me to fix sumthin here at home, in settings or what not. or if its the cable box.

apologies if this isnt the right forum, if its not, could you direct me to the correct one. just reading all these threads figured you guys would know how to help.

thanks.... Will

K, in december i bought a Hitachi 51" 51F59. had it for about a month. got home from work one day and the tv had quite a few lines in the bottom. so many you couldnt rea the picture. and one thick line in the middle of it, which was displayin picture from another part of the screen. still under warranty, sent it to the shop to get it fixed. they had it for over a month (longer than i actually had it in my home) they delivered it back to me on Wednesday mornin. Figured it was fixed, watched tv. played quite a bit of my PS2. (socom in 540 i think) friday night, the same thing started happening again. woke up saturday, it was fine no lines AT ALL. shut the tv off to go to my sisters. once getting home turned it on. LINES WERE BACK!

i dont wanna send it back to the shop, for another month, and have the same thing happen.

whats hooked up to it is my PS2 with HD cables. HD cable box, with the HD cables. and my soround sound. we had a regular cable box hooked up to it for the majority of the month i had it, then switched to the HD box. shortly there after. it started.

I NEED HELP. dunno if its possible for me to fix sumthin here at home, in settings or what not. or if its the cable box.

apologies if this isnt the right forum, if its not, could you direct me to the correct one. just reading all these threads figured you guys would know how to help.

thanks.... Will


This is a warranty problem. If you are not satisfied with the service you got from the warr sta you used, select another one and if necessary, complain to Hit about the first one.

I am having the second warr visit on my new set from the local sta, and on the first time around they properly remedied the humbars my set arrived with. This Tuesday they come back for 2 more probs - no regulation the brightness of the pic - the overall br changes with a bright or complete black patch showing up then disappearing as scene changes, somewhere in the pic - and the fact that it won't go completely black. I will have to rig up shutout curtains for this visit because it needs to be completely black before the second prob on this visit can be observed.

Mine's a Mit 73", brand new. Most brands provide home visits for their RPTVs, including the Panny I have had for 6 years, which required 3 visits. Neither of them has left my premises for warr work.

Don't know what Hit provides, but in-home svc is what SHOULD be there for you, under warr.


Mr Bob

apreciated. i seen a thread where somebody else posted the same problem, you were helping with em. maybe the TV has a cooling/heating defect as you posted to the other person having the same problem? basically no way for me to fix it at home. but i had it in the shop as i said, they "fixed it" for 2 whole days. :mad: :(

apreciated. i seen a thread where somebody else posted the same problem, you were helping with em. maybe the TV has a cooling/heating defect as you posted to the other person having the same problem? basically no way for me to fix it at home. but i had it in the shop as i said, they "fixed it" for 2 whole days. :mad: :(

Intermittents are usually thermally related, and are usually cold solder joints. But bad conns can be inside ICs and other semiconductors, too. It's rare, but possible. We use superfreeze and heat guns to test for that sort of thing.

Good luck! Let us know what happens.


Mr Bob

oh i will. just curious if i should be mr "worst customer" theyve had when calling them about it not beeing fixed. Best Buy told me to keep the box the TV came in just in case having to return, coinsedentally, after 30 days, my TV craps out. hmmmmmm

oh i will. just curious if i should be mr "worst customer" theyve had when calling them about it not beeing fixed. Best Buy told me to keep the box the TV came in just in case having to return, coinsedentally, after 30 days, my TV craps out. hmmmmmm


At shops I work at they run TVs for a few days if there's any hint of intermittency in the symptoms, and at least the rest of the day if not. It's called "running them out".

I would change servicers. There are good ones out there.


Mr Bob

See, there lies the problem there, about 24 hours after they fixed the TV, they brought it back to me, maybe a day and a half. doubt they left it on to test like that. i should bring that up! hmmmmmm so evershop uses those freezeguns and stuff like that to test? or is this shop just guessing whats the problem?

Haven't seen any complaints of this particular issue yet, so hopefully I'm the first to bring it up.

My 65F59A (with Dish Network) has been pretty much perfect for me so far (had it about 3 months now)... changed the out of box settings, got the HDMI issue fixed... HD looks pretty much perfect (unless you're watching the NBA on TNTHD as of late, haha). Lately though, I've noticed that my screen seems to be slightly tilted left (horizontally). The best way to see this is while watching ESPNHD... the left side of the "Bottom Line" stat-bar is closer to the bottom of the screen than the right side. It is extremely minor and hard to spot, but I was just curious if anyone else had this issue and/or knew if anything could be done to fix it. Thanks.

I'm back,


Anyway lately my set has been turning itself off randomly, how many other people experience this? Have you fixed it?

I'm back,


Anyway lately my set has been turning itself off randomly, how many other people experience this? Have you fixed it?

Mine no longer does this after the HDMI "fix"

Mine no longer does this after the HDMI "fix"
What is this fix? Not my fix is it?

See, there lies the problem there, about 24 hours after they fixed the TV, they brought it back to me, maybe a day and a half. doubt they left it on to test like that. i should bring that up! hmmmmmm so evershop uses those freezeguns and stuff like that to test? or is this shop just guessing whats the problem?


Who knows? Some shops love to just "board it" and let it go at that. They throw boards at it till the prob disappears, and then charge the customer accordingly and call it good.

Many shops are just swappers, like in the good ole days of tubes for your radio. I was never there, but I heard about it.

The shops I work at prefer to "board-level" fix the problem by repairing the board - or whatever - whenever possible.


Mr Bob

Haven't seen any complaints of this particular issue yet, so hopefully I'm the first to bring it up.

My 65F59A (with Dish Network) has been pretty much perfect for me so far (had it about 3 months now)... changed the out of box settings, got the HDMI issue fixed... HD looks pretty much perfect (unless you're watching the NBA on TNTHD as of late, haha). Lately though, I've noticed that my screen seems to be slightly tilted left (horizontally). The best way to see this is while watching ESPNHD... the left side of the "Bottom Line" stat-bar is closer to the bottom of the screen than the right side. It is extremely minor and hard to spot, but I was just curious if anyone else had this issue and/or knew if anything could be done to fix it. Thanks.

Common geometry issue. If both the top and bottom bars are off to the same degree, and so is the vertical/sides, turning each yoke slightly will do the trick.

If ONLY the bottom line is not parallel, that's a keystone issue, and I don't think Hit's have the registers for that.

To cure that, you'd have to do an extensive dcam geometry/reconverge in that corner, on all 3 colors.

My brand new 73" Mit had that going on in the upper left corner, plus lots of inappropriate curvature, against straight top border lines. Looked really dorky at the top.

Took some point conv to get it right, just like yours will.


Mr Bob

What is this fix? Not my fix is it?

See post #26 in this thread. Great to have you back, were have you been? I used to be username Confusednoob, not sure if you remember me.

Contacted HItachi and best buy. my warranty does cover in home. id prefer a tech to come here so i can show him whats up. and see if he understands the stuff you've told me.

they put me in contact with a difference shop. call them tomorrow and see. i dont know what the other shop was thinkin. does it usually take over a month to fix and deliver a TV locally? i mean like litterally a few blocks away.

i think ill get a better result if i show they guy actually what is going on. and no i dont have replacement in my warranty or anything of the such. if it IS the tv itself, i would have to shell out an extra 400+ for the same tv, the result of buying it on a sale.

apreciate the help mr. bob. if this dont work, ill just drive up there and let ya look at it

See post #26 in this thread. Great to have you back, were have you been? I used to be username Confusednoob, not sure if you remember me.
Cool, I was having the tint issue as well, I'll try that.

Best Buy online ad for 51F59 "SDTV"

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7846502&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050031&id=1142299121359

"SDTV tuner for access to both digital and analog over-the-air programming. Note: Digital content, regardless of broadcast resolution, will be displayed at standard-definition (480i) screen resolution."


WTH? :confused:

Best Buy online ad for 51F59 "SDTV"

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7846502&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050031&id=1142299121359

"SDTV tuner for access to both digital and analog over-the-air programming. Note: Digital content, regardless of broadcast resolution, will be displayed at standard-definition (480i) screen resolution."


WTH? :confused:

Maximum Resolution 1280 x 1080

lol at least they know the resolution of the CRTs.

still love it, especially playin my games. sharp, clean, clear. love it. love my 51

Best Buy online ad for 51F59 "SDTV"

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7846502&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050031&id=1142299121359

"SDTV tuner for access to both digital and analog over-the-air programming. Note: Digital content, regardless of broadcast resolution, will be displayed at standard-definition (480i) screen resolution."


WTH? :confused:

You didn't know this? This was a big bone of contention late last year over @ the 57F59A thread---whether or not the F59 OTA tuner was an HD tuner.

It's not.

It IS a digital tuner and will receive digital/HD OTA. Sounds crazy, I know, but this set tunes 720p/1080i OTA HD signals (and displays them in their intended aspect ratio) but downscales them to 480i. They're then re-upconverted to whatever your Virtual HD is set to (540p or 1080i).

Seems to be a more complicated way around displaying OTA HD, but I assume it was a cost-cutting move on Hitachi's part. Guess a "real" HD tuner is more pricey. The only way to get "real" broadcast HD is via cable/satellite or a separate HD OTA tuner.

So in reality, the F59s are technically HD monitors.

Yet many users thought their F59's did have an HD tuner and some found it hard to believe that the OTA HD they were seeing wasn't "really" HD. This fact (along with Lee Bailey's recently posted photo evidence on the 57F59A thread of how well standard DVD @ 480i stacks up against HD-DVD) should speak volumes on how well the F59 Virtual HD upscaler really works.

Just a HDMI shift update.....

Just fired off this email to Hitachi service:

I picked the first TV type from the list since mine isn't listed :)

I have a 51F59A CRT RPTV. Have had it since Oct '06 and love it. Did recently have the blue CRT replaced under warranty due to a manufacturing defect (all is well now, BTW).

My question concerns issues with the use of HDMI gear. I know that back in January, Hitachi released a service bulletin that gave service centers the service menu codes to enter to address the picture issues many were having when connecting HDMI gear to F59 series TVS. That "fix" has been implemented on mine and everything is fine. However, myself and many users that I have spoke with online still experience what is best referred to as "image shift"--a brief horizontal shift in the entire picture (usually to the left) that corrects itself within a couple of seconds. For me, this happens very infrequently when using a Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player via HDMI. (maybe once every 5-6 discs played).I have spoke to others--and recommended they contact you as well--who experience this (usually with cable/satellite boxes via HDMI) much more often. One F59 owner I have spoke with has this shift happen every few seconds and is obviously frustrated.

I spoke with the moderator of the HDMI discussion board @ the AVS Forum recently about this problem. He seemed to think that it may be a timing issue occuring during the conversion of the digital HDMI video signal over to the analog that a CRT display requires. If this (or something else) is the case, I know there are many F59 series owners that would appreciate the Hitachi engineering dept. looking into this problem. Hitachi took care of the previous HDMI issues the F59s were having. Let's hope you can do the same for this.

Thank you, and I look forward to a response.

Let you all know what I hear back ASAP.

Got an email response back from Hitachi over the weekend. Told me I need to contact the service dept via phone (thru 1-800-HITACHI) to report this issue, although my current service acct tied to my email address is on their system and should be mentioned when I call (report of image shift was noted on my acct).

Will call them later this week. Would suggest anyone else having the "shift" issue (esp. those who have it a lot) get on the phone to Hitachi and let 'em know what's going on (what HDMI gear you're having issue with, etc).

Of course, I spent all day Sunday watching DVDs and not a single shift on 4 movies, so go figure. I'll do my part on staying on top of this with Hitachi (if it is indeed fixable on their end), but I just don't have much of a problem with this myself. So those that do should pick up the ball on this one.

Got an email response back from Hitachi over the weekend. Told me I need to contact the service dept via phone (thru 1-800-HITACHI) to report this issue, although my current service acct tied to my email address is on their system and should be mentioned when I call (report of image shift was noted on my acct).

Will call them later this week. Would suggest anyone else having the "shift" issue (esp. those who have it a lot) get on the phone to Hitachi and let 'em know what's going on (what HDMI gear you're having issue with, etc).

Of course, I spent all day Sunday watching DVDs and not a single shift on 4 movies, so go figure. I'll do my part on staying on top of this with Hitachi (if it is indeed fixable on their end), but I just don't have much of a problem with this myself. So those that do should pick up the ball on this one.
the only time i have noticed an image shift is when i play my ps2 games on my ps3 (hooked up via hdmi and ran through avr) it only happens for a few seconds and goes back to normal. i haven't noticed it at all on blu ray yet. i will keep looking for it as i watch about 2 blu ray movies a week and like i said i have yet to see a shift on a movie, just ps2 games.

You didn't know this? This was a big bone of contention late last year over @ the 57F59A thread---whether or not the F59 OTA tuner was an HD tuner.

It's not.



I did not know that. Count me as one of those who thought their F59 had the capability to display OTA HD in actual HD. But, I'll go the set-top HD cable box or satellite set-top box route someday soon anyhow and get true HD that way, so no big deal.

Actually I think the majority of so called HDTV's are actually HD monitors in that they need a set-top box to display actual HD content unmolested by any up-conversion, right? At least most of the lower priced (sub $2000) sets, or so I am guessing. Didn't the F59 series predecessor, the F710 series, have a built-in HD tuner (QAM)?

I did not know that. Count me as one of those who thought their F59 had the capability to display OTA HD in actual HD. But, I'll go the set-top HD cable box or satellite set-top box route someday soon anyhow and get true HD that way, so no big deal.

Actually I think the majority of so called HDTV's are actually HD monitors in that they need a set-top box to display actual HD content unmolested by any up-conversion, right? At least most of the lower priced (sub $2000) sets, or so I am guessing. Didn't the F59 series predecessor, the F710 series, have a built-in HD tuner (QAM)?


The F710s had a QAM cable tuner and an OTA HD tuner, I beleive. The major internal difference btwn the 2, virtually identical looking lines of HDTV.

Actually the # of HDTVs with internal HD tuners has gone up considerably. Supposedly, the RCA 52" CRT RPTV (the other common set of this type to be found in retail B&M stores near me) does have an HD tuner @ around the same price point. The F59s get much higher ratings for overall PQ, however (Mr Bob had stated some time back to avoid the RCAs, I think). My last Hit CRT set was also an " HD monitor"--no internal HD (or even digital--this was a 2001 model of course) tuner.

Most all DLP/LCD sets in about every price point nowadays have internal HD tuners. OTA has never been a selling pont for me, though. In the past OTA has never worked well for me. Signal strength has always been intermittent on most locals both with indoor and rooftop UHF and VHF antennas. We watch mostly network HD shows, so perfect performance/signal is very important in my house.

Plus, cable and sat. often provide HD-DVRs (mankind's greatest invention IMHO ;) ) to new subscribers for little or no extra cost. Dish Network is actually leasing them to new subscribers for free right now and you can still get (and record) your local OTA thru it. DirecTv is still charging $200 to lease their HDDVR, although they carry many more markets' HD locals over their sat signals than Dish. But if OTA HD comes in fine for you now, either way will work.

Most cable companies offer HD-DVRs as the primary cable converter to HD/digital cable customers, usually @ no extra charge---and you won't need any antenna for local HD. This is how I get my HD (from Comcast) and I love it. We almost never wacth "live TV"anymore, unless the DVR is empty. My wife loves AMERICAN IDOL, but we always start watching it about 45 minutes after it starts. FF the commercials, the fluff and the forced drama and you only need to spend about 15-20 minutes seeing/hearing the contestants sing (which is why you're really watching anyway, right?).

Still, the fact that you thought you were seeing actual HD OTA does speak highly of the F59s internal scaler.

Best Buy online ad for 51F59 "SDTV"

Note: Digital content, regardless of broadcast resolution, will be displayed at standard-definition (480i) screen resolution."[/COLOR][/B]


WTH? :confused:


Don't you mean WTF?

Obviously this is WORNG... No HDready displays content in 480i -

Then again, Tweeter listed my present, recently purchased Mit 73" 9" triple gun CRT as an LCD!

:p

Mr Bob

(Mr Bob had stated some time back to avoid the RCAs, I think).


I have no experience with RCA HDreadys. Nobody has ever called upon me to work on one!

I will not, however, work anything but conv repair on a Proscan or a Tosh, and would prolly apply this to RCA as well. Those 2 brands are hellacious to work on in the field, and I won't touch anything but a conv repair on them.

And since I have NO repair experience with RCAs, would apply that to them as well.

But I would be glad to cal an RCA HDready, if anyone wants to buy one and have me do it. So far my only experience with RCA has been cals with non HDreadys.


Mr Bob

The F710s had a QAM cable tuner and an OTA HD tuner, I beleive. The major internal difference btwn the 2, virtually identical looking lines of HDTV.


F710s had adjustable color decoders, superior scalers that could handle Coax., composite, and S-video signals without the blurring/artifacts the F59 has, and it was dual tuner.

I don't understand why the F59 handles 480i via component/HDMI perfectly but every other input the scaling goes to ****.

I have no experience with RCA HDreadys. Nobody has ever called upon me to work on one!

I will not, however, work anything but conv repair on a Proscan or a Tosh, and would prolly apply this to RCA as well. Those 2 brands are hellacious to work on in the field, and I won't touch anything but a conv repair on them.

And since I have NO repair experience with RCAs, would apply that to them as well.

But I would be glad to cal an RCA HDready, if anyone wants to buy one and have me do it. So far my only experience with RCA has been cals with non HDreadys.


Mr Bob

Oops...sorry Bob..wasn't you!

I do know someone here had stated that btwn the Hit and the RCA, that the Hit was probably a better choice for the $$. Don't want to misquote you!

Switching from cigarettes to the nicotine patch has done a number on the brain the last few days.

As Lloyd Bridges said in AIRPLANE, "I picked the wrong day to quit smoking" (or amphetimines, or sniffing glue...) :p

Not trying to start anything here with you, Ballz.... :)

but you are obviously VERY unhappy with the F59, I gather. At least from your posts since your return. ANd even from some from the past, as well.


F710s had adjustable color decoders, superior scalers that could handle Coax., composite, and S-video signals without the blurring/artifacts the F59 has, and it was dual tuner.

I don't understand why the F59 handles 480i via component/HDMI perfectly but every other input the scaling goes to ****.

Yeah, the 710s had those, too. :rolleyes:

Were the F59 "stripped down" to cut prices on what was undoubtedly Hit's last line of CRT RPTVs? Sure. If I had been in the market when the F710 was readily available at a local CC (get my stuff there due to the no interest financing deals they often have), I know I would have gone that way. They are nice TVs, no doubt.

But, I don't require dual tuners (get my TV from dig. cable via a dual tuner HDDVR and PIP MODE is useless to me anyway). The cable box does a surprisingly good job of sending a very nice SD cable pic via component--as well as a gorgeous 1080i HD signal. My DVD player also sends an excellent upscaled 1080i via HDMI. That's really all I use and everything looks fabulous. Mr Bob's advice has made it look even better and once I get him in my neck of the woods later this year I'm sure it'll improve even more. I have nothing running S-Video and the onl;y composite stuff hood up (VCR and N64) are so rarely used, it just doesn't matter......to me, at least.

As I said, not trying to start any arguments with you, man. No need for a childish pissing match btwn reasonable adults regarding why I'm right-you're wrong or vice versa. I hate those kind of forum conversations! :mad:

Just sorry that your TV isn't making you happy, that's all. 'Cause, despite the loss of some of the F710's features, the F59s do what they do quite well for the price. Sure as hell makes me smile every time I watch it. And fortunately, they're still readily available (the 51's, at least).

Oops...sorry Bob..wasn't you!

I do know someone here had stated that btwn the Hit and the RCA, that the Hit was probably a better choice for the $$. Don't want to misquote you!




I'm sure I did say that.


Since nobody has asked me to do an RCA, and PLENTY of people have asked me to do their Hit's - and Pios, and Mits's, and Tosh's - I would say that says something about them that I don't even need to say...

Like maybe that videophiles just don't choose them?...


:rolleyes:

Mr Bob

Question: Will a new Power Deflection PWB assembly (DP65G chassis) Hitachi part # UE25952 fix my bowing (opposite of pincushion) geometry problem? The part the Sears repair tech was told to order by Hit tech hotline arrived at my house the other day and its not a DCU board as I had (apparently mistakenly) thought it was going to be. It is in fact a big honkin' Power Deflection PWB assembly, p/n UE25952.

Anyone (Mr. Bob?) with repair experience know if swapping out the Power Deflection assembly will correct a geometry problem?

Well, at least I don't have to worry about swapping out my DCU eeprom...

P.S. numerous tests with Avia DVD using the needles and steps pattern for White Level setting show no distorting of the needle lines when cranking contrast up to max and back down, even with YOUTG = 01 in the service menu (gamma increase on). So it would seem my power supply is not weak. Which makes me wonder if Sears In-Home Repair Service swapping out the power deflection board will make any difference at all.

Got an email response back from Hitachi over the weekend. Told me I need to contact the service dept via phone (thru 1-800-HITACHI) to report this issue, although my current service acct tied to my email address is on their system and should be mentioned when I call (report of image shift was noted on my acct).

Will call them later this week. Would suggest anyone else having the "shift" issue (esp. those who have it a lot) get on the phone to Hitachi and let 'em know what's going on (what HDMI gear you're having issue with, etc).

Of course, I spent all day Sunday watching DVDs and not a single shift on 4 movies, so go figure. I'll do my part on staying on top of this with Hitachi (if it is indeed fixable on their end), but I just don't have much of a problem with this myself. So those that do should pick up the ball on this one.

Here is a post my email response from Hitachi -

The bulletin that addresses the issue with picture quality through the hdmi should also address you picture shifting issue. If the service adjustment has been done to the set and the problem still exists the tv will have to be diagnosed by a servicer to get this issue corrected. If there is anything else that I can assist with please feel free to write back.

I've only watched DVD's for a few hours now since it was fixed (Saturday afternoon) - no freaks or shifts yet...<fingers crossed>...

-well see.

mine still shifts... all the time

Mine shifts significantly less now. It's fairly rare. And I've never had a freakout in the weeks since I've done it (Aside from the unexplained solar burst that I posted about.)

I did not see the same shift as before (4 inches to the left for 10 sec), but I did notice a "shift" without the vertical black 4 inch on the right, and it *appeared* to happened much faster, or should I say, last less time. Maybe 3-4 seconds. It seemed to be a "right-to-left" shift but was difficult to tell. But It seemed to repeat again after 5 seconds. Then that was it. The jury is still out. Much better than before though. Much better.

Question: Will a new Power Deflection PWB assembly (DP65G chassis) Hitachi part # UE25952 fix my bowing (opposite of pincushion) geometry problem? The part the Sears repair tech was told to order by Hit tech hotline arrived at my house the other day and its not a DCU board as I had (apparently mistakenly) thought it was going to be. It is in fact a big honkin' Power Deflection PWB assembly, p/n UE25952.

Anyone (Mr. Bob?) with repair experience know if swapping out the Power Deflection assembly will correct a geometry problem?

Well, at least I don't have to worry about swapping out my DCU eeprom...



Hor deflection circuitry often has master settings for pincushion - can be out or in, is still called pincushion - on the horizontal plane, of the vertical lines. Some designs are fixed, some are adjustable.

DK about Hit's.


Mr Bob

I really want to sell my 57.....and get a 65!

Bigger would have been better.

I really want to sell my 57.....and get a 65!

Bigger would have been better.

Oh no........screen size envy! :)

There are times I think I shoulda went w/ the 57 over the 51. Oh well.....still love the 51 anyway.

I really want to sell my 57.....and get a 65!

Bigger would have been better.


I hear this all the time, have to counsel some owners to wait on their cals till they make their final decisions on their set size.

Bigger always wins...

:p

Mr Bob

A while back I tood some bad advice and used a damp cloth the wipe down the screen. Literally down, which I think was the wrong way anyway. Haven't noticed any effects until last night when watching hockey; clearly visible bits of dirt on the screen, I imagine it would affect the picture in general, if only in a minor way.

Anyway, what to do. I've read you could take a vacuum cleaner with the soft bristle attachment, should I try that and if it doesn't work what then? Live with it or buy a new lenticular screen?

Just use a good plastics cleaner from a hardware/auto supply store and a microfiber cleaning rag/cloth as well. You should have no problem removing all bits of dirt... try watching hockey again... and clean the bits that offend you.

Have my HTPC hooked up via HDMI. Was just watching cable (Component 3) and for the second time since doing the HDMI "fix", my TV went into solar mode where the picture was lost and the brightness and contrast level seemed to be at least 100. Screen was insanely bright... then began flashing different solid colors (brightly). Had to turn off TV and turn back on.

A while back I tood some bad advice and used a damp cloth the wipe down the screen. Literally down, which I think was the wrong way anyway. Haven't noticed any effects until last night when watching hockey; clearly visible bits of dirt on the screen, I imagine it would affect the picture in general, if only in a minor way.

Anyway, what to do. I've read you could take a vacuum cleaner with the soft bristle attachment, should I try that and if it doesn't work what then? Live with it or buy a new lenticular screen?


Whatever you do, the resulting residue is your enemy.

I have not tried alcohol on a lent, but one person who did, on a Sony, lost all the blacking in that section of his screen, at the tops of each ridge. That blacked out area does not contain any visible video info, but helps the blacks, across the screen.

Unfort'ly, doing this caused that 1x4" area to be non-black from then on. Not visible during content, but clearly visible when the set was off.

I don't think Hit's have this blacking, so maybe this is not a worry, but at the very least make sure and do a final rinse with clear water.

Unfort'ly even that will leave some glossy residue. The stuff Philips sold for the purpose of cleaning your screen years ago left the whole thing glossy! Stuff they sell now prolly still does, have not used it again.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!


Mr Bob

Have my HTPC hooked up via HDMI. Was just watching cable (Component 3) and for the second time since doing the HDMI "fix", my TV went into solar mode where the picture was lost and the brightness and contrast level seemed to be at least 100. Screen was insanely bright... then began flashing different solid colors (brightly). Had to turn off TV and turn back on.

Paul,
Did the HDMI fix apply properly(Did the software version update properly)?Also, do you have the HTPC turned on when viewing cable? Are there any firmware updates for your HTPC's card?

http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/display_tests

Found this site with a lot of patterns. Not sure how they compare to DVE or Avia or INHD.

Whatever you do, the resulting residue is your enemy.

I have not tried alcohol on a lent, but one person who did, on a Sony, lost all the blacking in that section of his screen, at the tops of each ridge. That blacked out area does not contain any visible video info, but helps the blacks, across the screen.

Unfort'ly, doing this caused that 1x4" area to be non-black from then on. Not visible during content, but clearly visible when the set was off.

I don't think Hit's have this blacking, so maybe this is not a worry, but at the very least make sure and do a final rinse with clear water.

Unfort'ly even that will leave some glossy residue. The stuff Philips sold for the purpose of cleaning your screen years ago left the whole thing glossy! Stuff they sell now prolly still does, have not used it again.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!


Mr Bob

the cure of a glossy finish seems worse than the disease. It's hard to believe no one has come out with a good product to clean these things. I mean, they're not made, um, of glass. I mean they're fragile in a way, but it's not like they're going on the space shuttle.

Distilled water and a lint-free cloth would be about the only combo I'd trust not to leave residue.

I was at Circut City the other day and they had the monster screen cleaner on sale for 19.00$, (im not a monster fans but the prices was ok so i thought i should try it) comes with a cloth and a pretty good size bottle of cleaner. It worked great clean screen no residue. :)

Paul,
Did the HDMI fix apply properly(Did the software version update properly)?Also, do you have the HTPC turned on when viewing cable? Are there any firmware updates for your HTPC's card?

I double and triple checked my settings when I made the fix (and the new color and new name correctly appeared on the front page of the service menu.)

I haven't checked for firmware updates because it's a Radeon 9800 using a DVI to HDMI cable. I know ATI well enough to know they'd never be addressing these issues (since there's plenty of official issues they ignore...here's looking at you, HDTV wonder.)

The 1st time it happened I was just using the HTPC. Second time I was watching television and had the HTPC on because I was switching between television and internet. Actually there was a minor third incident: About an hour after I turned off the PC, and was watching only television, I had a couple moments of penny sized squares that gridded the entire screen (about 5 inches apart). Happened a couple of times, but quickly disappeared.

Just got off the phone with hitachi's CS, they transferred me to a service center near my house. Service center stated they are aware of the screen shifting with HDMI, and they have a fix. I do not know as much as any of you guys here, but after they come on Monday, i will post to let everyone know if it worked. Now i have to keep my fingers crossed that they don't screw it up more.

Just got off the phone with hitachi's CS, they transferred me to a service center near my house. Service center stated they are aware of the screen shifting with HDMI, and they have a fix. I do not know as much as any of you guys here, but after they come on Monday, i will post to let everyone know if it worked. Now i have to keep my fingers crossed that they don't screw it up more.

I would almost bet money that the fix they are refering to is the one that most of us have already applied to fix the "freak outs". I could be wrong and hope that there is another solution but I won't hold my breath.

My issues aren't that bad just a shift only when watching my Sony NS75H every 2-3 DVDs. It happens usually for about 2-3 seconds at a time and does it maybe 2-3 times in a 5 minute period then it is fine again. I never have a shift with any other inputs even with the player still hooked up and running through HDMI.

Just when I thought everything was fine I start to see a very noticeable silk screen effect, I think that's what I'm seeing. I would call it the static effect. This has been true to an extent since I got it, it's just that when I read descriptions it didn't sound like what I was seeing. But a couple of times now it's so obvious I don't see how anyone can not see it. I'll test this with a friend tonight, but I'm not talking about a minor little thing.

I think I might have caused some of it. Last night like an idiot I thought I saw a bit of softness in the left side so I went in to adjust focus again. I can't leave well enough alone sometimes, this was after thinking about how good the picture looked in the NCAA game. After adjusting the picture was terrible. So I went back in and readjusted and did a quick convergence, and now the picture is 90% of what it was. I'm sure I can get it all the way back, I did it before. So I'm almost desperately hoping this is why I'm seeing it so prominently now.

Does getting focus and convergence perfectly tight reduce this effect? I'm OK if I occasionally see it in a minor way. But if it stays like it is now, I may have to sell the set and then what. DLPs have the same effect and I can't afford a 51 inch plasma.

Just got off the phone with hitachi's CS, they transferred me to a service center near my house. Service center stated they are aware of the screen shifting with HDMI, and they have a fix. I do not know as much as any of you guys here, but after they come on Monday, i will post to let everyone know if it worked. Now i have to keep my fingers crossed that they don't screw it up more.

I just posted about this in the main 57F59A thread. There is no fix for the image shift issue yet. The person I spoke to was very knowledgeable and aware of exactly what the issue is. I believe the confusion on their part is the service document for the other HDMI fix (which solved all my issues except for the image shift) lists a bunch of symptoms that it addresses, one of which called "tint shift."

Text of my post below:

I spoke to a Hitachi customer service rep who said they are aware of this issue and the fact that the recent HDMI service menu adjustment does not fix this issue. He asked me a bunch of questions (including which DVR I have, which is a Comcast Moto DCT3416 series I) and said their engineers are working the issue, and they'll get back to me when a fix is available.

Try turning off AUTO MOVIE MODE (3:2 Pulldown) if you have it on and see if this helps.

Just when I thought everything was fine I start to see a very noticeable silk screen effect, I think that's what I'm seeing. I would call it the static effect.

<snipped to keep reply size down>

Try turning off AUTO MOVIE MODE (3:2 Pulldown) if you have it on and see if this helps.


I'm pretty sure it's not on, it's greyed out. What does it do, that could give me a clue.

I do notice this almost exclusively on movies. Not on sports, not on Letterman, not on 95% of Discovery channel shots. Maybe that's just a coincidence.

Come to think of it, I haven't been aware of it on test patterns on DVE that are mostly white or grey. Wonder if it has something to do with the HDTV input. Wonder if anyone knows the default settings for HDTV sharp etc. I'm not aware of changing any values on the set other than COLORG, SRTGA, and STATG1 and 2. Maybe I inadvertently did something else. My remote joystick sometimes sticks, could have hit enter without knowing it.

I have been watching the tournament. I get these same issues off and on. All HD is not created equal.

By the way, what is the difference between focus and convergence? Sorry for the dumb question

Not dumb. Common, perhaps, but not dumb. Convergence is the way the three colors come together. Focus is the "sharpness" of each color. Obviously, you need both for a good picture. And, with a little help from the great folks here, you can do both. Have fun, and enjoy your great set.

OK, I have done a 117 point "focus", but I guess that's really convergence? How do I do a real focus? I know it's probably in this thread, but if you could point me to it, I'd be greatful. I would rather not take the set apart. From experience with other electonics, I have learned to "stay out of the kitchen".

OK, I have done a 117 point "focus", but I guess that's really convergence? How do I do a real focus? I know it's probably in this thread, but if you could point me to it, I'd be greatful. I would rather not take the set apart. From experience with other electonics, I have learned to "stay out of the kitchen".


You have to open the set to do focus and then you adjust each lens sort of like a camera. I would guess that 90% of sets don't really need it, experts may correct me.

A service menu convergence, with an external pattern, is better than the 117 pt. How much better depends on the set, I guess. Go back to the first few pages of this thread, there is a DIY guide. But you have to go into the service menu to do it, I would consider that "the kitchen." How do you feel about the picture quality now?

Not dumb. Common, perhaps, but not dumb. Convergence is the way the three colors come together. Focus is the "sharpness" of each color. Obviously, you need both for a good picture. And, with a little help from the great folks here, you can do both. Have fun, and enjoy your great set.


Focus should always be done on one color at a time.

Geometry should be done on just the green.

Convergence should be done on 2 colors at a time.

Blurriness can be caused by either focusing or convergence.

"Magic Focus", Touch Focus, Auto focus, Flash Focus, these are all misnomers. These are all auto convergence systems.


Mr Bob

OK, I have done a 117 point "focus", but I guess that's really convergence? How do I do a real focus? I know it's probably in this thread, but if you could point me to it, I'd be greatful. I would rather not take the set apart. From experience with other electonics, I have learned to "stay out of the kitchen".

Good luck.

To really do focusing, you MUST enter the set in some way, shape or form. Getting to the lenses or getting to the focus block, or both.


Mr Bob

You have to open the set to do focus and then you adjust each lens sort of like a camera. I would guess that 90% of sets don't really need it, experts may correct me.

How do you feel about the picture quality now?


The Cantilever Technique allows you to completely check your optical focus WITHOUT changing it. If it passes the test, you don't change anything.

This allows the sizing of each color to stay the same if your optical IS correct, so no new convergence is needed either, one color to another.


Mr Bob

You have to open the set to do focus and then you adjust each lens sort of like a camera. I would guess that 90% of sets don't really need it, experts may correct me.

A service menu convergence, with an external pattern, is better than the 117 pt. How much better depends on the set, I guess. Go back to the first few pages of this thread, there is a DIY guide. But you have to go into the service menu to do it, I would consider that "the kitchen." How do you feel about the picture quality now?

I would say my picture is already pretty awesome. Maybe a professional calibration would be an option, though.

I would say my picture is already pretty awesome. Maybe a professional calibration would be an option, though.


How far back do you sit?

My criterion is to be able to sit 8' back from a 65", 7' back from a 55", 6' back from a 46", and have everything be blazingly coherent, re. your image structure.

At 15' back from a 46", you may as well not bother with supertightening your pic at all. You won't see any differences anyway, at that viewing distance.

Image structure calibration is for those wishing for home CINEMA, not just home theater.

The "Rilly big shew..."


Mr Bob

Wonder if anyone knows the default settings for HDTV sharp etc. I'm not aware of changing any values on the set other than COLORG, SRTGA, and STATG1 and 2. Maybe I inadvertently did something else. My remote joystick sometimes sticks, could have hit enter without knowing it.

My 51F59's HD related defaults:

TA1383:

HDPOSI1 07
HDPOSI2 05
HDPOSI3 03
HDPOSI4 01
HDPOSI5 02

TA1360:

SHARP-NTSC 22 (Not HD but posted it anyhow)
SHARP-SDTV 1C ( Ditto)
SHARP-HDTV 1C
APRTR-NTSC 01
APRTR-SDTV 01
APRTR-HDTV 00

VMPHS-NTSC/SDTV 06
VMPHS-HDTV 04

CDE 00 (I have it tweaked @ 01 currently)

YDTL 07 (I have it tweaked @ 08 currently)


When I have AUTO MOVIE MODE on it causes some momentary (1/10 of sec or so) horizontal banding artifacts on bright details in the picture scene during fast motion and/or instantaneous camera angle changes. Looks like screen door effect but without verticle lines only horizontal.... banding artifacts are thicker when Virtual HD is set to 540p, so this might have something to do with AUTO MOVIE MODE and the F59's Virtual HD upscaling (for non-HD content) working together. Turning AUTO MOVIE MODE off and the artifacts are no longer apparent. This is viewing SD analog cable which is all we watch currently (Mr. Bob don't slap me). So this probably does not apply to your situation.

I still get the odd image shift but would rather live with it than deal with Hitachi Canada's pathetic customer service again. Either that or wait until some kind of fix is posted here.

I just noticed today that it looks like the image is shifting down on my set. There has always been part of the bottom of the picture cut off, but now I have a visible black area at the top. I thought it was my DirecTV receiver, but it also occurs when playing DVD's.

Any ideas?

you asked to be kept posted. they came out to look at my tv. told you the last shop had it for over a month.
this guy did an in home, looked at the work order from the other place. said EVERYTHING they put into my tv. wasnt even close to being the problem. the tv has some bad connection as you stated. so he sodered a few spots. and poof. no more lines.

but the board is bad with this connections, so he's ordering another one. im lookin for the guy on this board that had the same problem with the same tv. and have a temporary fix that the tech showed me. COMPLETELY harmless to the tv in all areas.

so in turn he called Hitachi and told them the last shop that had my tv was blowin smoke in their a$$, and pretty much ripped them, and me off. so he took care of that for me. Apreciate the help Mr. Bob.

Just wanted to let everyone know that Mr Bob's recommended CRT RPTV optics cleaner, Sprayway, is currently available @ Costco (at least my local warehouse--guessing it's available chain-wide) in 4-packs of the 19oz cans for around 7 bucks.

Mr. Bob,

The Cantilever technique? Is this doable by the DIYer or does it require someone trained and with experience like yourself.

Mr. Bob,

The Cantilever technique? Is this doable by the DIYer or does it require someone trained and with experience like yourself.


It's doable by anybody.

If you want the how-to from the horse's mouth, I am available for consultation, and you'll contact me directly. If you want it for nothing, feel free to find a way to do that too. Your choice.


I only make anything from being on these boards by somebody out there who's reading this, either hiring me for a calibration or hiring me for a consultation. Or for a repair. Lots of little phone consultations add up.

Otherwise I'm mostly simply donating my time and expertise here, till the next time somebody does. It's fun being able to have a career doing what you love.

Ideally my phone would be ringing off the hook! These tips the DIYers get during consultations with me superfly them to their goals much more quickly, with HUGE amounts LESS of trial and error time wasted on their end. Plus navigating the pitfalls of an inherently potentially landmine-laden enterprise, that of going in on this kind of electronic/optical device.


Mr Bob

Sears in-home repair tech came this a.m. and changed out the HOR Deflection board on our 51F59. No difference. Same pincushion problem remained. He called Hitachi tech help and they could not advise further, so he noted on the repair receipt (warranty job) that the set cannot be repaired. He said to take the warranty repair receipt to the store and discuss exchanging the tv for a new one with the store mgr.

I hate to see this set go, because the picture is dialed-in so tight that the PQ is excellent, even with analog SD content. But I can't tolerate a pincushion problem on an eight month old tv.

P.S. tech said there is no pincushion adjustment on the deflection board for this chassis, its all hard-wired in.

Sears in-home repair tech came this a.m. and changed out the HOR Deflection board on our 51F59. No difference. Same pincushion problem remained. He called Hitachi tech help and they could not advise further, so he noted on the repair receipt (warranty job) that the set cannot be repaired. He said to take the warranty repair receipt to the store and discuss exchanging the tv for a new one with the store mgr.

I hate to see this set go, because the picture is dialed-in so tight that the PQ is excellent, even with analog SD content. But I can't tolerate a pincushion problem on an eight month old tv.

P.S. tech said there is no pincushion adjustment on the deflection board for this chassis, its all hard-wired in.

Sorry to hear it. Are you getting another 51 or something else? Considering the amount of dialing in you did on the last one, you could likely do the same on a new one.

Remind me....is the pincushioning on the edges? And where? Got any pics of it? Just curious.

My 51F59's HD related defaults:

TA1383:

HDPOSI1 07
HDPOSI2 05
HDPOSI3 03
HDPOSI4 01
HDPOSI5 02

TA1360:

SHARP-NTSC 22 (Not HD but posted it anyhow)
SHARP-SDTV 1C ( Ditto)
SHARP-HDTV 1C
APRTR-NTSC 01
APRTR-SDTV 01
APRTR-HDTV 00

VMPHS-NTSC/SDTV 06
VMPHS-HDTV 04

CDE 00 (I have it tweaked @ 01 currently)

YDTL 07 (I have it tweaked @ 08 currently)


When I have AUTO MOVIE MODE on it causes some momentary (1/10 of sec or so) horizontal banding artifacts on bright details in the picture scene during fast motion and/or instantaneous camera angle changes. Looks like screen door effect but without verticle lines only horizontal.... banding artifacts are thicker when Virtual HD is set to 540p, so this might have something to do with AUTO MOVIE MODE and the F59's Virtual HD upscaling (for non-HD content) working together. Turning AUTO MOVIE MODE off and the artifacts are no longer apparent. This is viewing SD analog cable which is all we watch currently (Mr. Bob don't slap me). So this probably does not apply to your situation.

Thanks for the settings, mine were already the same. I think the only thing that might be different on mine, after my problem after my initial convergence setup when I briefly lost all picture, are the Standard cut and drive settings. But I always preferred Medium anyway. I did on my last set too, though it was called Cool.

Interestingly enough, I don't seem to have Auto Movie Mode, though the manual says I do. Only got Virtual HD, which is off. It might have applied to my situation for when I watch SD, I do occasionally but it's moot.

Interestingly enough, I don't seem to have Auto Movie Mode, though the manual says I do. Only got Virtual HD, which is off. It might have applied to my situation for when I watch SD, I do occasionally.

AUTO MOVIE MODE (aka 3:2 pulldown) is located in the VIDEO section (not SETUP where VHD is) of your user menu on the 2nd page (scroll down past last parameter of the list of VIDEO to get to page 2 (which has 3 options--AUTO COLOR, AUTO MOVIE MODE and NOISE REDUCTION).

It's deactivated (greyed out) if anything but a 480i signal is fed into that speciic input.

AUTO MOVIE MODE (aka 3:2 pulldown) is located in the VIDEO section (not SETUP where VHD is) of your user menu on the 2nd page (scroll down past last parameter of the list of VIDEO to get to page 2 (which has 3 options--AUTO COLOR, AUTO MOVIE MODE and NOISE REDUCTION).

It's deactivated (greyed out) if anything but a 480i signal is fed into that speciic input.

Wait, maybe I did see it last night but didn't pay attention because it was off. I think my cable box is not set to output 480i. Might be worth setting it and trying AMM for SD material. Anything to make Mets away games look better.

Wait, maybe I did see it last night but didn't pay attention because it was off. I think my cable box is not set to output 480i. Might be worth setting it and trying AMM for SD material. Anything to make Mets away games look better.

Worth a shot, but AMM/3:2 pulldown is really for adjusting the discrepancies btwn film based material (shot @ 24 frames/second) and standard video (30 frames/second).

Don't know that AMM is gonna make a difference in SD sports at all. Who's your cable provider and what box (make/model) do they supply you with? I know (and have stated on a couple of threads here) that when I swapped cable boxes from an older to newer model, the PQ of SD material improved pretty dramatically.

I have Comcast and was originally supplied w/ a Motorola 6412 HD-DVR as my converter. Recently switched to a newer version offered in my area (6416 Series III). The latter features 40GB more DVR storage space(160GB instead of 120), an HDMI out instead of DVI (I still run mine component) and an improved video chipset. SD cable--even the 2-99 "analog" stuff--went from what some might deem unwatchable to very nice, colorful and clear. Not HD quality, but much better than even some of the SD satellite I've watched at relatives' houses.

All my SD cable is output to 480i, BTW, with the VHD @ 1080i.

Might be worth looking into to improve the PQ of those away games. ;)

Sorry to hear it. Are you getting another 51 or something else? Considering the amount of dialing in you did on the last one, you could likely do the same on a new one.

Remind me....is the pincushioning on the edges? And where? Got any pics of it? Just curious.

I haven't gone to the local Sears store yet, but I would bet they'll only do a straight apples to apples exchange. Which is okay, because I do like the 51F59, and as you mentioned I've learned enough about them to know how to tweak the PQ to near perfection. Although I'll have a 100 hour break-in wait before any tweaks on the next one. Might squeeze off COLORG = 01 from the get-go, though. :D

I'll edit in some pics of the problem a little later after the tv warms up. Just turned it on.

edit: Here's a couple pics of the problem, you can see distinct bowing pincushion error:


Overall bowing appearance:

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/ripsaw/gridbow1.jpg

upper right corner is whacky...bending downward:

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/ripsaw/cornerwhack.jpg

I haven't gone to the local Sears store yet, but I would bet they'll only do a straight apples to apples exchange. Which is okay, because I do like the 51F59, and as you mentioned I've learned enough about them to know how to tweak the PQ to near perfection. Although I'll have a 100 hour break-in wait before any tweaks on the next one. Might squeeze off COLORG = 01 from the get-go, though. :D


Do everything up front, then after 100 hours redo the conv, which will have drifted during the 100 hour "drift period". No reason to wait. Just do conv twice - once up front, once at the end. And maybe a few times in between, to keep it watchable. The rest of the tweaks need no waiting space. Only the conv.




I'll edit in some pics of the problem a little later after the tv warms up. Just turned it on.

edit: Here's a couple pics of the problem, you can see distinct bowing pincushion error:




This is not a huge amount of offness, what's in your picture above. It can be remedied relatively quickly via DCAM.

There's no need to completely get your set replaced. I could have this back to perfect in an afternoon - nay, heck in just a few hours, with all the multiple passes that would be required.

If it has not drifted off from where it is right now, and you trust it to stay wherever it's put as of now, retweaking the conv is all that's necessary. If you distrust it to stay that way, because this one snapped out after being perfect, now that's another question.

Prolly all goes back to the foibleness of the Hit mem bank and its software for mem'ing changes, which as I have stated many times is hinky out of the starting gate, needing multiple passes to finally catch completely and stay. Unlike other brands, which catch and stay the very first time. Usually takes me 5 passes before it will stay where it put it, and MF screws that up immediately if implemented, which is why I never do MF after my final pass.

It prolly just got charged in some reverse pincushion direction or other and then just hiccup'd and went the other way. Have never seen one do that, no, but with the Hit's the way I HAVE seen them, I would call something like this not TOO unexpected.


The Hit's are hinky, but predictable, and deliver a superfine pic once finalized and LEFT ALONE! (no MF!)

If it were my set I would weigh the attributes of each decision, and go with the most predictable. If you consider that it happened at all an unpredictable sit, I'd get a new one and do all that I had done before on it, over again.

If I trusted that this would be the last I'd see of this pinc phenom, I'd keep my set and do a new and superlative DCAM on it.


Mr Bob

Yeah, VivatHD....concur w/ Bob. Seems that some DCAM geometry adjustments would hammer this out. Unless of course it keeps going out of whack despite numerous passes @ ROM write.

My DCAM grid had a similar--albeit not nearly as pronounced--bowing after overscan reduction. Managed to straighten everything out first by eyeballing it on green only, then lining red/blue to that. Then used ext sources like the AVIA grids and some other DVD material (rolling credits, panning still images, etc) to iron out any geo. "speedbumps" and "squished" bits. Took time to do, but was infintely worth it.

Was this bowing always there or did it appear, say, after overscan tweaking? Can't remember if you mentioned this here before.

Yeah, VivatHD....concur w/ Bob. Seems that some DCAM geometry adjustments would hammer this out. Unless of course it keeps going out of whack despite numerous passes @ ROM write.

My DCAM grid had a similar--albeit not nearly as pronounced--bowing after overscan reduction. Managed to straighten everything out first by eyeballing it on green only, then lining red/blue to that. Then used ext sources like the AVIA grids and some other DVD material (rolling credits, panning still images, etc) to iron out any geo. "speedbumps" and "squished" bits. Took time to do, but was infintely worth it.

Was this bowing always there or did it appear, say, after overscan tweaking? Can't remember if you mentioned this here before.


Right! This pinc effect is common after o'scan reduc on virtually all brands I have done! It's ALWAYS part of the correction procedure.


Mr Bob

Vital, that problem can be fixed as Mr.Bob & J Webb have posted. I had a similar problem after changing the EW PARA Value & then going & hitting MF after. I did a pretty good job myself @ getting back as close as possible using the same technique J Webb used(Green Lines only) only after I had a TECH come-in & try to fix-it(did a horrible job) the 1 good thing he did was he some how DISABLED the MF on my set. How he did this I have no Idea, but it's probably the best thing that could've happen.(Guess I got lucky)

I still have a small amount of Pincushion, but not as bad as it was before. It's mainly @ the screen edges(due to Over-Scan Reduction) This is fixable

I may try to fashion a screen jig by the string and tape method, working off of the screen jig dimensions for 51F59 published in the service manual. I would not be comfortable with being able to align green accurately just by eyeballing it without a jig to guide me.

Or I may exchange the set. Haven't decided yet.

Does anyone know if ANYTHING in the 51F59A's specs has changed or been altered since the production runs of late Spring, early Summer 2006? If they've revised out any features, I would be inclined to keep this one and just work on re-aligning green.

I never attempted to adjust overscan on this set, so I have no idea what caused the problem.

If your set is still @ it's factory overscan rate (meaning you haven't touched it), you could use the screen jig to fix your current geo. issues. Although they are pretty much useless for actual conv. adj (and also completely useless if you do an overscan reduction-due to the grid size changing), you could get green back to where it needs to be utilizing the jig.

The downloadable jigs that cavery posted on this thread (post #6) would be the easiest way to go about it. They are .pdf files that can be dumped to CD-ROM and taken to any print shop with an AutoCAD machine. I had a 51 jig done @ Kinko's on vellum paper (translucent white paper that the DCAM lines can be seen thru) for around 20 bucks (if I remember correctly). If you have a shop that can do AutoCAD onto clear mylar, even better--but a bit pricier.

Used this jig once to correct geo. after my first failed attempt @ overscan reduction. The instructions from cavery that I posted around the same time dealt with resetting F59's to "factory-spec" overscan-essentially the service manual instructions in more plain English. ;) (post#19). Since you never touched overscan, you could just line up your green to the grid or put the set into an uncorrected state and start from scratch (instructions also found in the "factory-specs" post).

Since getting overscan reigned in properly, my jig is useless. Still have it around, but will almost assuredly never use it again. Same case for you if you decide to do an overscan reduction down the road. But, if you feel comfortable in DCAM mode (sounds like you are) and have the time to do the work, the jig method will help you get geometry back.

And I know Bob loathes jigs (and I understand why), but if you need it for yourself, go for it. Not everyone can eyeball such things easily.

Does anyone know if ANYTHING in the 51F59A's specs has changed or been altered since the production runs of late Spring, early Summer 2006? If they've revised out any features, I would be inclined to keep this one and just work on re-aligning green.

I never attempted to adjust overscan on this set, so I have no idea what caused the problem.

Other than the service menu parameter changes to E2PROM (the HDMI fix)--and the possiblity of another if the HDMI "shift" gets addressed the same way--I don't beleive there's anything different at all, internally or physically. In fact, I don't know that there are any F59s out there with a build date past Sept/Oct '06.

AS far as the cause of your problem.....Bob-would a voltage spike or some other electrical phenomenon cause what happened with VivatHD's geometry?

AS far as the cause of your problem.....Bob-would a voltage spike or some other electrical phenomenon cause what happened with VivatHD's geometry?


No idea. Spikes have been suspected of erasing eeproms, but compromising it in the form of a coherent vertical pinc shape that wasn't there before, with red and blue very coherently aligned to the green and to each other?

Seems awfully intelligent, for a voltage spike...


Mr Bob

No idea. Spikes have been suspected of erasing eeproms, but compromising it in the form of a coherent vertical pinc shape that wasn't there before, with red and blue very coherently aligned to the green and to each other?

Seems awfully intelligent, for a voltage spike...


Mr Bob

Great...intelligent voltage spikes. Just what we need in the world now! ;)


Still, the screenshots scream "overscan adj errors", but Vivat hasn't touched that.

Weird.

jwebb1970 I have a question for you. As per post #19 I readjusted the horizontal and vertical pots to specs, however, previous to this I had adjusted overscan (4% all around) and geometry in DCAM which I have been very satisfied with. As MF for me has always been right on I simply hit MF after the adjustment and everything lined up perfectly.

Again, this procedure puts your overscan voltage back into the factory recommended range.

Once that is done, you are ready to do the convergence/geometry adjustment.

2.Start by clearing the DCAM data (hold the blue service button while you power on the tv).

This will bring up the DCAM grid in it's totally uncorrected state (all curved lines). From here start by lining the green up to the grid using raster, 3x3, 7x5, 13x9, etc. Then do red and blue.

In my case is this step really necessary as voltages should be back to normal at the pots? Or am I overlooking something? :confused:

jwebb1970 I have a question for you. As per post #19 I readjusted the horizontal and vertical pots to specs, however, previous to this I had adjusted overscan (4% all around) and geometry in DCAM which I have been very satisfied with. As MF for me has always been right on I simply hit MF after the adjustment and everything lined up perfectly.



In my case is this step really necessary as voltages should be back to normal at the pots? Or am I overlooking something? :confused:


If you brought in overscan in DCAM only ("shrinking" the DCAM grid) without adjusting the h/v size pots ,you were putting way too much stress in the conv. ICs. Couldn't tell if that's what you meant--and what a PITA that procedure would have been. ;)

As far as what you mention from post#19, that stuff is meant to be done if you wished to use the screen jig to re-align geometry--esp if it's really off or a major internal component is replaced. The info from that post was orginally PMed to me from cavery--the guy who made the downloadable screen jigs--and taken directly from the service manual. For the jig to work properly, the set MUST be within the factory spec overscan limits.

Setting/having the h/v size voltages to "factory-spec" and then doing overscan reduction via DCAM only will shorten the life of the ICs. Overscan reduction on the F59 needs to be a combo of h/v size adj (for the actual o'scan reduction) AND DCAM (for the geo/conv errors such reduction will cause and writing the new settings to ROM which lessens stress on the ICs). If o'scan is reduced, the "factory specs" jig becomes useless.

The "factory spec" voltages for h/v size are correct only if your o'scan is sitting @ factory spec amounts (according to service manual--3.5-4% top/bottom; 5-5.5% left/right). My set sits @ 4% all around as well, but this reduction was done via the h/v pots. DCAM was then used for the conv./geo. fixes. Once the new DCAM settings are written, the h/v "voltage" is correct for those settings and IC stress levels are back to normal.

A couple of days ago I decided to have Kevin Miller come in for calibration. Now I'm glad I did, as last night I mistakenly touched one of the DO NOT TOUCH buttons - the blue Screen button on the focus pak. I was going to try and redo focus again to make it more uniform across the entire screen. I just couldn't leave it alone for a couple of days. Still can't believe I put my hand on the wrong button, but I post this as a cautionary tale for anyone tweaking thier set. I would strongly advise leaving focus alone unless you are very sure what you are doing.

And even if you are, be very careful. I know you've read it before, and also to write down the original settings. But people still forget.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing what the set looks like at it's best. Re what I did, will this increase the amount of work to be done, or would he normally use those buttons for grey scale adjustment? I'm thinking about going back and resetting SRTGA etc to the original values, should I do that?

If you brought in overscan in DCAM only ("shrinking" the DCAM grid) without adjusting the h/v size pots ,you were putting way too much stress in the conv. ICs. Couldn't tell if that's what you meant--and what a PITA that procedure would have been. ;)

As far as what you mention from post#19, that stuff is meant to be done if you wished to use the screen jig to re-align geometry--esp if it's really off or a major internal component is replaced. The info from that post was orginally PMed to me from cavery--the guy who made the downloadable screen jigs--and taken directly from the service manual. For the jig to work properly, the set MUST be within the factory spec overscan limits.

Setting/having the h/v size voltages to "factory-spec" and then doing overscan reduction via DCAM only will shorten the life of the ICs. Overscan reduction on the F59 needs to be a combo of h/v size adj (for the actual o'scan reduction) AND DCAM (for the geo/conv errors such reduction will cause and writing the new settings to ROM which lessens stress on the ICs). If o'scan is reduced, the "factory specs" jig becomes useless.

The "factory spec" voltages for h/v size are correct only if your o'scan is sitting @ factory spec amounts (according to service manual--3.5-4% top/bottom; 5-5.5% left/right). My set sits @ 4% all around as well, but this reduction was done via the h/v pots. DCAM was then used for the conv./geo. fixes. Once the new DCAM settings are written, the h/v "voltage" is correct for those settings and IC stress levels are back to normal.

Thanks for the info. I had originally done the overscan adjustment via the "pots," then adjusted geometry in DCAM but I was worried about the horizontal and vertical pot voltages. I have read in another Hitachi thread (wished I could remember where) that overscan adjustment should never be adjusted with the horizontal and vertical pots but in DCAM only, that those voltages were not to be messed with and yet others that state the opposite, hence the confusion.

If you don't mind me asking, (and have the time) how far off from your original "factory spec" measurements are you now since you reset your overscan to 4%? Since we have the same % overscan and I believe you said the tolerance was +-5mm, perhaps I could use your measurement and be in tolerance?

Thanks for the info. I had originally done the overscan adjustment via the "pots," then adjusted geometry in DCAM but I was worried about the horizontal and vertical pot voltages. I have read in another Hitachi thread (wished I could remember where) that overscan adjustment should never be adjusted with the horizontal and vertical pots but in DCAM only, that those voltages were not to be messed with and yet others that state the opposite, hence the confusion.

If you don't mind me asking, (and have the time) how far off from your original "factory spec" measurements are you now since you reset your overscan to 4%? Since we have the same % overscan and I believe you said the tolerance was +-5mm, perhaps I could use your measurement and be in tolerance?

Could not say what the measurements are, since I did not do a service level size measurement procedure after adj overscan. Just stuck with what the overscan/size adj did to my DCAM grid and corrected geo/conv. Didn't "move" any h/v line's position-just straightened out green and lined blue/red to that, then wrote that to ROM. I assume the voltages are withing tolerances for those particular size settings. Since I don't get any real conv drift or other weirdness, I'm assuming I'm OK.

I believe that the "tolerance" has to do with the relation of the DCAM grid's h/v size to the voltage amount of the size pots. Example, if your h/v voltage was at factory spec, but only the DCAM grid size was changed via line adj/info stored at greater than +/-5mm in either direction (doing overscan ONLY by tweaking in DCAM), you'd be in danger of overcooking the ICs. If your h/v size is decreased/increased AND the DCAM grid size change that was caused by this adj was written to ROM, you'd be OK.

Maybe Bob can chime in on this?

Thanks for the info. I had originally done the overscan adjustment via the "pots," then adjusted geometry in DCAM but I was worried about the horizontal and vertical pot voltages. I have read in another Hitachi thread (wished I could remember where) that overscan adjustment should never be adjusted with the horizontal and vertical pots but in DCAM only, that those voltages were not to be messed with and yet others that state the opposite, hence the confusion.




The voltages for the h/v pots don't change significantly with reducing overscan. You turn them very little and that gets you generous amounts of change. Not quite as sensitive as the screen pots, but no, changing them for o'scan reduc doesn't push anything out of factory parameters. Just don't get anything in too far or your MF sensors won't get bombarded properly when the MF "magic" is working.

It's best to use those pots for the o'scan reduc and use the DCAM to do the mop-up, just like Jwebb says. He's on it. Having the points fighting against each other in there really does an overheating number on the conv ICs.

Don't know where you got that other info, but disregard.

I once saw info on Keohi saying that you should defocus your red and green to match your how far your blue is defocused! I immediately wrote Errol about how bad that advice was, that he had some really great advice up there - including mine - and that to have this major defocusing of the primary structure colors advice up there was really making him - all of us - look bad.

It was immediately deleted from that site.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the back-up response, Bob.

Worried that there was a chance there would be a follow-up post saying something like "Don't listen to this moron!!! You're conv. ICs are about to explode!!!" :eek:

Last thing I want to do here is dole out bad advice due to a lack of experience.

Thanks for the back-up response, Bob.

Worried that there was a chance there would be a follow-up post saying something like "Don't listen to this moron!!! You're conv. ICs are about to explode!!!" :eek:

Last thing I want to do here is dole out bad advice due to a lack of experience.


You got it -

;)

Mr Bob

Still, the screenshots scream "overscan adj errors", but Vivat hasn't touched that.

Weird.

Don't even know where these h/v pots you refer to are located. Only pots I know of are the focus pack six-pack. Never tried to move green around either, because I don't have a jig. I did do an electronic focus on all three colors quite a long time ago, though. Maybe that caused it?

Don't even know where these h/v pots you refer to are located. Only pots I know of are the focus pack six-pack. Never tried to move green around either, because I don't have a jig. I did do an electronic focus on all three colors quite a long time ago, though. Maybe that caused it?


Nothing on the focus block coulda caused this.


Mr Bob

I'm really impressed with the way my 51F59 looks after a few tweaks and an Avia set up. But, I am a perfectionist. Will I see much difference if I go through the focus procedure even though I can't really complain about the picture quality?

I'm really impressed with the way my 51F59 looks after a few tweaks and an Avia set up. But, I am a perfectionist. Will I see much difference if I go through the focus procedure even though I can't really complain about the picture quality?


Who knows?

If you use the Cantilever Technique, you can check your optical without ever changing it, and you'll know for sure. If it's already as good as possible, you won't have possibly ruined it by changing things to find out, as other focusing techniques would require.


Mr Bob

I'm really impressed with the way my 51F59 looks after a few tweaks and an Avia set up. But, I am a perfectionist. Will I see much difference if I go through the focus procedure even though I can't really complain about the picture quality?


See my cautions above. Don't let this happen to you.

You can't really do too much damage focusing the lenses, I wouldn't think. I know I was able to correct a bit of softness in the upper right quadrant. But on the ISFTV website, Kevin Miller says "While many people are getting it into their heads that [mechanical focus] is a necessary part of a rear projection TV calibration, due mainly to the prolific amount of information/misinformation on the Internet, it should be noted that this is really rarely necessary."

http://www.isftv.com/What_We_Do.html

Now if you're Mr. Bob it doesn't hurt to do it, but we're not Mr. Bob.

A couple of days ago I decided to have Kevin Miller come in for calibration. Now I'm glad I did, as last night I mistakenly touched one of the DO NOT TOUCH buttons - the blue Screen button on the focus pak. I was going to try and redo focus again to make it more uniform across the entire screen. I just couldn't leave it alone for a couple of days. Still can't believe I put my hand on the wrong button, but I post this as a cautionary tale for anyone tweaking thier set. I would strongly advise leaving focus alone unless you are very sure what you are doing.

And even if you are, be very careful. I know you've read it before, and also to write down the original settings. But people still forget.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing what the set looks like at it's best. Re what I did, will this increase the amount of work to be done, or would he normally use those buttons for grey scale adjustment? I'm thinking about going back and resetting SRTGA etc to the original values, should I do that?

mabrym, make sure you let him know you did this. That button, directly has impact on Grey-Scale. When is Kevin coming-in?

See my cautions above. Don't let this happen to you.

You can't really do too much damage focusing the lenses, I wouldn't think. I know I was able to correct a bit of softness in the upper right quadrant. But on the ISFTV website, Kevin Miller says "While many people are getting it into their heads that [mechanical focus] is a necessary part of a rear projection TV calibration, due mainly to the prolific amount of information/misinformation on the Internet, it should be noted that this is really rarely necessary."

http://www.isftv.com/What_We_Do.html

Now if you're Mr. Bob it doesn't hurt to do it, but we're not Mr. Bob.


Sony is the only brand where I would agree with Kevin on this. It's the only brand I trust that all 3 lenses will be exactly right, and the focus block focuses will also be 100% right, 99.9% of the time.

On all other brands, I typically find that 2 out of the 3 lenses are significantly off, OOB. At least to my seriously discriminating eyes. And to the eyes of those owners I show such offness to, via the CT. I always demonstrate this offness to the owner, via the CT, before I correct it. They always concur with me, once shown where it should be, and afterwards, where the scanlines are then definitely visible.

Remember, my criterion is that after my calibrations, you will be able to see the grain of the film used to shoot movies from your normal viewing distance, and hopefully I will have decreased that normal viewing distance for you by several feet, at bare minimum, increasing the net size of the picture you get to see after my calibration. The closer you get to sit to your set and still have 100% viewing coherence in your pic, the bigger the picture is, that you get to actually watch.

This translates into roughly 8' viewing distance for a 65", eyes to screen, 7' back from a 55", and 6' back from a 46". If you're not presently sitting that close to your set, the pic you're getting to see is proportionately smaller than mine is. If you're sitting 12' back from a 65" and I am sitting 8' back, my viewed pic is half again bigger than yours, and as such much more cinematic, much more like the RILLY big screens out at the mall theaters.


There are exceptions to my typical findings on focusing - on my 7 year old 65" Panny, only the green was out and only out at the edges, the center was just fine. And only on the optical/mechanical. On my former 60" SD Mit, same. On my present 73" Mit, only a few months old, NOTHING needed to be done, and I was very pleasantly surprised!

But normally I find, via the NON-INVASIVE Cantilever Technique, that 2 out of 3 lenses need retweaking, OOB. And blue is typically the worst offender, being massively more out that the other 2 on the optical, about half the time.


Mr Bob

A couple of days ago I decided to have Kevin Miller come in for calibration. Now I'm glad I did, as last night I mistakenly touched one of the DO NOT TOUCH buttons - the blue Screen button on the focus pak. I was going to try and redo focus again to make it more uniform across the entire screen. I just couldn't leave it alone for a couple of days. Still can't believe I put my hand on the wrong button, but I post this as a cautionary tale for anyone tweaking thier set. I would strongly advise leaving focus alone unless you are very sure what you are doing.

And even if you are, be very careful. I know you've read it before, and also to write down the original settings. But people still forget.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing what the set looks like at it's best. Re what I did, will this increase the amount of work to be done, or would he normally use those buttons for grey scale adjustment? I'm thinking about going back and resetting SRTGA etc to the original values, should I do that?


Yes, it will increase Kevin's work load just a bit, but not significantly. Pro calibrators who are fully equipped for grayscale alignment can get that blue screen setting back in order in seconds, with the proper experience in such things. Kevin will have that handled in very short order, and I'm sure it won't increase what he charges because of it.

Now, if you had accidentally messed with all 3 screen settings, that might be a different story...


Let him know about the SRTGA etc settings, and he'll make the proper decisions about whether to set them back again or not. He's a pro. Since you have the before and after settings written down, restoring to factory settings will only take a couple of minutes for either of you.


Mr Bob

mabrym, make sure you let him know you did this. That button, directly has impact on Grey-Scale. When is Kevin coming-in?


He's coming in Sunday. And then we're going out of town on Monday for a few days :(

I simply turned the blue screen button, just above the blue focus button. Had my hand on the focus, took it away for a second, and mistakenly got the wrong one.

I simply turned the blue screen button, just above the blue focus button. Had my hand on the focus, took it away for a second, and mistakenly got the wrong one.

Don't feel bad. I have done exactly the same thing, on occasion.

Good thing it was BEFORE Kevin's visit, rather than after!

;)

Mr Bob

He's coming in Sunday. And then we're going out of town on Monday for a few days :(

I simply turned the blue screen button, just above the blue focus button. Had my hand on the focus, took it away for a second, and mistakenly got the wrong one.

Sunday, Nice. How many devices do you have hooked-up to your TV?

Thanks jwebb1970 and Mr Bob for your responses. I know that convergence IC failure is very common. I see threads come up quite often with the classic symptoms. I actually successfully changed them out of an older Hitachi with excellent results. That set is now 12 yrs. old and belongs to one of my sons. My point being if it were not for the "ton of info" I've picked up over various websites... that set would have been in the middle of a mountain of garbage by now. ;)

"Tweaking" is a hobby I enjoy (I still have my Heathkit color generator.) and I fully know the risks involved. Hair raising high voltage shocks a couple of times could be considered one of those risks. :eek: But hey... maybe it aint just cats that got 9 lives.

My wife walks by when I am "fiddling" :mad:
and sees me :o
but eventually I kick back in the lazy boy. :D

Sunday, Nice. How many devices do you have hooked-up to your TV?


Just cable and a DVD player. Eventually I'll get my VCR up, for the very few times a year I use it. Maybe I should go ahead and connect it now, don't know if there would be any seperate calibration for that.

Mr. Bob, after Sunday I ain't touching nothing. Well, maybe contrast or brightness if a particular show looks bad, sometimes you get bad cable reception, or a bad print of a movie, whatever. And that's really one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this calibration. You're seldom going to get perfection on a given show or movie, for the reasons above or others. But now, every time I see an imperfection in a shot, I'm wondering if there is something I can do to make it better. Maybe another adjustment will make a difference.

Won't have to worry about that anymore.

Just cable and a DVD player. Eventually I'll get my VCR up, for the very few times a year I use it. Maybe I should go ahead and connect it now, don't know if there would be any seperate calibration for that.

Mr. Bob, after Sunday I ain't touching nothing. Well, maybe contrast or brightness if a particular show looks bad, sometimes you get bad cable reception, or a bad print of a movie, whatever. And that's really one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this calibration. You're seldom going to get perfection on a given show or movie, for the reasons above or others. But now, every time I see an imperfection in a shot, I'm wondering if there is something I can do to make it better. Maybe another adjustment will make a difference.

Won't have to worry about that anymore.

Make sure you have both your DVD & Cable running via Component, that way you can get both your inputs(component) calibrated correctly. BTW after Kevin does his thing, your TV will look darker than it is. I would suggest no matter what your picture will look like for different sources, leaving the settings alone after he's done. Let your eyes get use to the picture for a couple of weeks

Make sure you have both your DVD & Cable running via Component, that way you can get both your inputs(component) calibrated correctly. BTW after Kevin does his thing, your TV will look darker than it is. I would suggest no matter what your picture will look like for different sources, leaving the settings alone after he's done. Let your eyes get use to the picture for a couple of weeks

They are both component. Is there another way? :)

I'm not worried about thinking it's too dark, I've seen properly calibrated sets. My previous one, while not done by a pro, had a pretty decent picture after DVE. The first time on of my friends saw it he commented that it was dark. And I pointed out things like how the lighting in the parts of the shot that had light was natural, skin tones were natural, etc.

This raises an interesting point, though. I think most of us would admit that we enjoy showing off our TVs. But since many people have their TVs at horrible settings, I wonder how often friends/family nod politely when they see our TV while thinking about how bad the picture looks? :eek:

This raises an interesting point, though. I think most of us would admit that we enjoy showing off our TVs. But since many people have their TVs at horrible settings, I wonder how often friends/family nod politely when they see our TV while thinking about how bad the picture looks? :eek:

.... :D ... :D ... :D

"CC" is indeed Closed Captions. However the CLU-4361S remote that comes w/ the F59s does not have a "CC" button (some other Hit remotes do, I beleive--seem to recall the monster that came with my old 43UWX10B did). Hitachi has so many stinkin' variations of remotes, it's enough to confuse anyone--so no need to reinstate your old screen name!
.

Hi,
I've had the 51f59 for about 3 weeks now.
I did the easy recommended tweaks and am happy with it but was wondering if there were some settings I could change.


Black side bars. (can I change it so they are on by default)?

Closed caption location (it often goes on top instead of on the bottom where I would like it.)

Is there are single button that I can use to display close caption without going through the menu options each time.

is there a way to use the input button on the remote without having to exit the onscreen menu to change inputs?


Thank you very much
"D"

Hi,
I've had the 51f59 for about 3 weeks now.
I did the easy recommended tweaks and am happy with it but was wondering if there were some settings I could change.


Black side bars. (can I change it so they are on by default)?

Closed caption location (it often goes on top instead of on the bottom where I would like it.)

Is there are single button that I can use to display close caption without going through the menu options each time.

is there a way to use the input button on the remote without having to exit the onscreen menu to change inputs?


Thank you very much
"D"

You have to set the bars every time you turn on the TV. For the rest I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" with the TV remote, though I'm not sure I understand the last question. If you mean can you just select Input 3 directly, no.

You need a remote control with macros. Or a Harmony remote. Hey, you paid a lot of money for the set, a good remote should be part of it. I think Amazon has the Harmony 550 for about $75 now.

I just bought one of these last Friday. I did the colorg 01 for the red push. The whites seem to have a little red tint still. It looks better every day. Will the 100 hour mark help it out?

I just bought one of these last Friday. I did the colorg 01 for the red push. The whites seem to have a little red tint still. It looks better every day. Will the 100 hour mark help it out?


No, the 100 hours is strictly for the convergence.

And what you did prolly won't affect your red tint in the whites, as that is a grayscale issue, and I b'lieve the Colorg 01 is color decoding, which is different from grayscale, which is b/w only.

Grayscale affects the b/w's, forming the basic platform for the color decoding to build upon.


Mr Bob

edited out for non-content

I just did the mechanical and electronic focus and the picture is better yet. This set is amazing! Tomorrow I'm going to attempt lens striping and a lens hood. If I can clean up a little of the red/blue in the full screen whites and reduce the halo effect a little I'll be more than impressed, if it's possible to be more impressed than I am already. :)

Otto Mann: I've posted pictures/directions to what I consider an extremely easy and effective lens hood. The only amendment I'd add, is instead of letting it rest in the position it wants to sit naturally, slide a little cloth (or whatever) between the len's casing ends and the hood (making it act as about a 1/8 inch spacer). With that little spacer, I've got the results as honed as possible. It's blocking as much reflection as it can without impeding light output to/from the mirror.

Of course, if you're doing your own method, I'd be curious to see your results.

I just did the mechanical and electronic focus and the picture is better yet. This set is amazing! Tomorrow I'm going to attempt lens striping and a lens hood. If I can clean up a little of the red/blue in the full screen whites and reduce the halo effect a little I'll be more than impressed, if it's possible to be more impressed than I am already. :)

Otto,

Any chance you can take notes and pictures for the rest of us?

-Funk

You have to set the bars every time you turn on the TV. For the rest I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" with the TV remote, though I'm not sure I understand the last question. If you mean can you just select Input 3 directly, no.

You need a remote control with macros. Or a Harmony remote. Hey, you paid a lot of money for the set, a good remote should be part of it. I think Amazon has the Harmony 550 for about $75 now.

Thanks,

If I picked up the Harmony 550 would I be able to assign each of these to a button ? I didn't see anything about macro's on logitech's website

black bars on
closecaption on / off
switch inputs (single action not going through menu's)

I never found a close caption location selection in the menu's

Thanks a bunch

Otto,

Any chance you can take notes and pictures for the rest of us?

-Funk

I can do that. I changed my mind today once I had the screen off. As Paul33993 pointed out in one of his posts the amount of leakage to the sides of the red and blue guns was huge. The bottom of the cabinet is bright with bare particle board and the metal bracket that houses the guns. So I decided to only get rid of the leaks and blacken the bare areas to see what that would do for the PQ. I'll find out tonight when the room is dark. I also cleaned the guns and mirror, they had a nice coating of fine dust over them.

After that I'll try either the lens striping or the hood, not sure which yet. I'll take pics and document it when I do each one though.

I'm doing these these in steps so I can see which has the greatest effect. No point in doing them all at once and never knowing what the biggest factor is.

I can do that. I changed my mind today once I had the screen off. As Paul33993 pointed out in one of his posts the amount of leakage to the sides of the red and blue guns was huge. The bottom of the cabinet is bright with bare particle board and the metal bracket that houses the guns. So I decided to only get rid of the leaks and blacken the bare areas to see what that would do for the PQ. I'll find out tonight when the room is dark. I also cleaned the guns and mirror, they had a nice coating of fine dust over them.

After that I'll try either the lens striping or the hood, not sure which yet. I'll take pics and document it when I do each one though.

I'm doing these these in steps so I can see which has the greatest effect. No point in doing them all at once and never knowing what the biggest factor is.


Keep in mind that internal reflections show up on the OPPOSITE side of your screen from the bright area being reflected.

Any fuzziness surrounding credits and in the SAME area of the screen as the bright object is due to the optics being dirty, NOT to internal reflections.

Of course since you just cleaned your optics, that won't be a problem.


Mr Bob

Speaking of fuzziness around objects, there is a considerable blue halo around any white text. As you know, I've done the mechanical and electronic focus and the halo never goes away from the blue. I get a good tight blue line, but the halo remains.

When watching at more than 6 feet away you can't see it, but I'm wondering if I tighten it up a bit will it make the picture even clearer? If so, how do you tighten it up?

Thanks,

If I picked up the Harmony 550 would I be able to assign each of these to a button ? I didn't see anything about macro's on logitech's website

black bars on
closecaption on / off
switch inputs (single action not going through menu's)

I never found a close caption location selection in the menu's

Thanks a bunch
I have an 880. You won't find macros on a Harmony because they don't use them; they are programmed differently, which takes a little getting used to but works quite well.
In "device" mode there are buttons for closed caption (same toggles: auto/on/off) and direct inputs for 1 to 5 (not for "air." No, no one knows why, so you have to use "Input5" and then "InputDown." Go figure.). Any of the other buttons can be reprogrammed as you wish, so you can change "+" to be your closed caption toggle, for example.
There is a whole Harmony thread elsewhere on this site for more general info.
BTW, you don't want black bars. That's why they are off by default. Great way to encourage burn-in.
Michael

I can do that. I changed my mind today once I had the screen off. As Paul33993 pointed out in one of his posts the amount of leakage to the sides of the red and blue guns was huge. The bottom of the cabinet is bright with bare particle board and the metal bracket that houses the guns. So I decided to only get rid of the leaks and blacken the bare areas to see what that would do for the PQ. I'll find out tonight when the room is dark. I also cleaned the guns and mirror, they had a nice coating of fine dust over them.

After that I'll try either the lens striping or the hood, not sure which yet. I'll take pics and document it when I do each one though.

I'm doing these these in steps so I can see which has the greatest effect. No point in doing them all at once and never knowing what the biggest factor is.

Lens striping mostly addresses the white screen having a red tint on one side/blue tint on the other side effect. Some people don't need to do it. If you're positive your white screens are uniform across the entire screen, you don't really need it.

As for the lens hood: I made mine like 3 weeks after I purchased the set. And my immediate reaction was I couldn't tell if it made much difference while watching (While viewing from behind the set, though, I could clearly see if was reducing a lot of reflections by flooding the room with light and seeing how it ate the reflections that otherwised bounced off the lens.)

After watching for a couple of months with it, then taking it out one night as I gutted it in preparation for doing the mechanical focus the next day, I noticed a HUGE difference in PQ that night. Watching the Black Donnally's that night was completely disappointing. The lens hood may make a subtle difference, but it's significant in my case.

It doesn't eliminate all the reflections (as evidenced by my momentary flirtation with the above post that talked of painting/scalping the interior of the lenses to further reduce reflections.) But forgetting about tests that really expose reflections, it makes a really good improvement it reflections that occur in normal watching.

Otto Mann: I've posted pictures/directions to what I consider an extremely easy and effective lens hood. The only amendment I'd add, is instead of letting it rest in the position it wants to sit naturally, slide a little cloth (or whatever) between the len's casing ends and the hood (making it act as about a 1/8 inch spacer). With that little spacer, I've got the results as honed as possible. It's blocking as much reflection as it can without impeding light output to/from the mirror.

Of course, if you're doing your own method, I'd be curious to see your results.

where is you post?

Thank you very much !!!

I did find the thread on harmony but everything I looked at said "no macros" and this confused me, glad to find someone using it with this tv.

I understand about the black bars but I think I would like to be able to turn them on easily anyway. I just don' t like viewing with the grey bars.

Thanks again
"D"



I have an 880. You won't find macros on a Harmony because they don't use them; they are programmed differently, which takes a little getting used to but works quite well.
In "device" mode there are buttons for closed caption (same toggles: auto/on/off) and direct inputs for 1 to 5 (not for "air." No, no one knows why, so you have to use "Input5" and then "InputDown." Go figure.). Any of the other buttons can be reprogrammed as you wish, so you can change "+" to be your closed caption toggle, for example.
There is a whole Harmony thread elsewhere on this site for more general info.
BTW, you don't want black bars. That's why they are off by default. Great way to encourage burn-in.
Michael

I understand about the black bars but I think I would like to be able to turn them on easily anyway. I just don' t like viewing with the grey bars.

Try the 4:3 expanded mode. It stretches the sides more than the center, so the effect is not too bad. But if black bars float your boat, go for it. But no one here will think that's a good idea. Right gang?
Michael

Addendum: Thanks to you, I went back into the menus and discovered that there IS a direct input for Air, and it works fine. I don't know why others have had a problem. Guess I'll go back to the Harmony thread myself and take a look. :D

where is you post?

I posted a link in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9894638&&#post9894638

Going back to my original post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9374569&&#post9374569

Never posted newer photos like I stated I would because nobody seemed interested and I've got my set in the corner, with junk on both sides. I can get behind my set with a little maneuvering, but to take pictures requires me to roll the set out away from the wall and to really move stuff around. Major hassle and the pictures I've posted are all the steps. Just not in it's nice, polished, end.

Might have a couple posts here and there with additional details, but the main thing is what I posted a little above: That I've propped it out by about an 1/8 inch by adding a little cloth padding where the cardboard rests against the casing.

This probably doesn't make sense, but if you have a 51-inch set and follow my dimensions that I've posted, it's really obvious where the thing is supposed to sit. Adding a little cloth is just extending the angle out a little further.

Here's a fairly early post where you get an idea of how to hit the sweet spot:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9343332&&#post9343332

The summary of that is pretty much this: If you have a ceiling fan, turn in on. With the television off, go in from behind the television and look at the lenses. You see a lot of light entering the screen and that light reflecting significantly off the lenses. With the lens hood properly done, do that same thing, and the reflections coming in through the screen will be cut dramatically. This is the greatest scientific proof you can present to say it's doing something.

The other part of the balance is making sure you're not blocking light that should be hitting the mirror, or having the lens hood be too high so it's block reflections going from the mirror to the screen. You really wanna delicately balance those three things as finely as possible.

I thought I had a red problem but I see it's the red/blue problem. I tried the lens strip without success. This set is very bad. On a black and white movie, right is blue and left is red. Is there any service menu tweaks? Will it calm soon?

Speaking of fuzziness around objects, there is a considerable blue halo around any white text. As you know, I've done the mechanical and electronic focus and the halo never goes away from the blue. I get a good tight blue line, but the halo remains.

When watching at more than 6 feet away you can't see it, but I'm wondering if I tighten it up a bit will it make the picture even clearer? If so, how do you tighten it up?


If you have successfully focused your set to the max on both optical and elec, you may have astigmatism error. I am available for phone consultation on that, if you wish.

Defocusing of the blue to at least a certain degree is allowable when it can't be seen from your regular viewing position. And no, it won't significantly improve the crispness of your pic even if you tighten it up some more. Blue is more a fill color, while red and green are the actual structure colors.


Mr Bob

I thought I had a red problem but I see it's the red/blue problem. I tried the lens strip without success. This set is very bad. On a black and white movie, right is blue and left is red. Is there any service menu tweaks? Will it calm soon?

What size is the TV? 65", 57", 51"?

-Funk

Thanks for the tip Mr Bob. I went through the DCAM convergence and focus again, this time using an IRE50 cross hatch and dots. It really made a difference, you can actually see the blue convergence this way and I got it completely aligned across the entire display.

The only somewhat minor issue now is everything was perfect until I shut the TV off and powered it back up 90 minutes later. The mid-left area (grids 2 - 4 from left and 2-5 from top) are out of alignment. I went through the DCAM again, straightened it out, saved it and it sticks until I shut the TV off and let it cool down again.

Each time I check it the set has been on for 90 minutes or more. Strange that it's always that one area that drifts. I can correct it in the user menu convergence, but as others have pointed out, the convergence is a little different between the AVIA 50IRE grid and the built-in grid. I can live with it, I think, because it is a minor drift and likely not affecting PQ much if at all in that area.

Thanks for the tip Mr Bob. I went through the DCAM convergence and focus again, this time using an IRE50 cross hatch and dots. It really made a difference, you can actually see the blue convergence this way and I got it completely aligned across the entire display.

The only somewhat minor issue now is everything was perfect until I shut the TV off and powered it back up 90 minutes later. The mid-left area (grids 2 - 4 from left and 2-5 from top) are out of alignment. I went through the DCAM again, straightened it out, saved it and it sticks until I shut the TV off and let it cool down again.

Each time I check it the set has been on for 90 minutes or more. Strange that it's always that one area that drifts. I can correct it in the user menu convergence, but as others have pointed out, the convergence is a little different between the AVIA 50IRE grid and the built-in grid. I can live with it, I think, because it is a minor drift and likely not affecting PQ much if at all in that area.

If I may....... ;)

I know Bob has stated that, in his experience with Hitachis, that DCAM ROM settings most often take a few passes to fully "stick". He recommended to me (and others here) that it may take at least 5 passes of DCAM adj and writing them to memory for the Hit ROM to fully "remember" them. Just a weird little idiosyncracy with Hit memory circuits.

After I did a full overscan reduction and the conv/geo fixes that followed, it took around 6-7 passes of DCAM touchups (over the course of a few days) for everything to hold. Would get it seemingly dialed in, then notice a conv or geo error later on. Would then go back and fix 'em. Repeated this process over the course of about 4-5 days. The fact that Bob does this in the course of an afternoon speaks volumes to both his obvious expertise and patience (not to mention resistance to eyestrain-induced headaches!) Now, my conv/geo stays put. Conv even looks very good at initial power up, too (but tightens up even more after about 30-40 minutes warm up time) and there are no geo "speedbumps" anywhere on screen.

It's a 51" funk.

The TV is off. Lights are on in the room. Lens hood is removed. Here's a photo taken with a 50 ISO speed (low ISO equals darker picture). Check out the major reflections bouncing off the lenses.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/435636405_8ed9b19131.jpg?v=0

Same scenario below. TV off. Lights on in the room. Lens hood is ON. If I kept the camera at at ISO speed of 50, nothing shows up. It's a black picture. So I had to seriously up the ISO speed to get the picture brighter. I've got 3 more pictures with the lens hood on at the following link, all with various settings (but I feel picture 2 best matches):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/435636409_a5f85250f3.jpg?v=0

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/?saved=1

If you look at the wood and the brightness of the duventyne, I think the posted picture is closest in picture brightness to the picture without the lens hood. But the higher ISO speed has made that picture still brighter, so it obviously erroring to the benefit of the no lens hood picture. Even with this detrimental light enhancing, notice how much less reflection is hitting the lenses with the lens hood on.

I'm gonna pick up another piece of craft board tomorrow. And I'm gonna see how much higher I can go before I start blocking light from being projected from the mirror to the screen. I think if I can add an additional 1/8 to 1/4 inch, I'll block even more reflection (though at this point I'm just being anal compulsive.)

EDIT: I'm effing retarded when it comes to trying to post pictures. No idea what I'm doing wrong, but I guess links will have to substitute for posted pictures.

Paul,

Got any pic's of the lenses after you striped them?

I am slowly getting the courage to pull the rear off my 65 and do the striping and possibly a lens hood.

-Funk

They actually are striped in those photos. The outside of the red and blue have the striping done. And both sides of the green (advanced striping). Kind of wish I had a color spectrometer (or whatever they're called) to see if the green is actually doing anything.

Once I determine the actual limit that the height can be on the hood, I'll post pictures and dimensions of my "final" lens hood. I'll also try and get a couple better shots of the interior and a closeup of a lens so you can better see the striping on it.

EDIT: All the photos were taken without flashes so the camera flash wouldn't be the reflection on the lens. One photo with the flash will give a good shot of it. Hopefully I'll have them posted by Wednesday evening at latest.

Kevin Miller callibrated my set on Sunday and mostly the picture is great, of course. But I am still being bothered a lot because of silk screen effect, at least I think that is what it is. I'm not sure because the descriptions I've read say it's usually on very light or white colors, like a hockey rink. I don't see it there, it's in darker scenes. Interior scenes with low light levels. And it's usually in movies. I watched Letterman last night, didn't see it at all. Watching HD baseball now, don't see it at all.

I put on some DVDs and watched a number of scenes and it wasn't a problem, is there any reason this would be more of a problem on 1080i content?

I'm just hoping it's the cable box or connections. I switched the main cable to the box, no difference, but the line coming into the house is at least 15 years old, maybe that's it somehow.

Well, I got the DCAM convergence to stick. That's the good news.

The bad news... Suddenly I'm getting random left shift issues. So far it only seems to be on the HDMI input, but that's what I watch most. The picture shifts 3-4 inches to the left for anywhere from 2 to 10 seconds then pops back. It doesn't seem to matter if the source is HD or SD and sometimes it happens 3-4 times in an hour and other times it doesn't happen for 4 or 5 hours.

I think I read on the board that others are seeing this as well. Is there a fix for it? Is it a known issue? I just had the HDMI fix completed by a service technician six days ago too.

Well, I got the DCAM convergence to stick. That's the good news.

The bad news... Suddenly I'm getting random left shift issues. So far it only seems to be on the HDMI input, but that's what I watch most. The picture shifts 3-4 inches to the left for anywhere from 2 to 10 seconds then pops back. It doesn't seem to matter if the source is HD or SD and sometimes it happens 3-4 times in an hour and other times it doesn't happen for 4 or 5 hours.

I think I read on the board that others are seeing this as well. Is there a fix for it? Is it a known issue? I just had the HDMI fix completed by a service technician six days ago too.

There is not a fix for the image shift from Hitachi yet, but I know they are working on it. I spoke to their customer service about it a few weeks ago and after providing them info was informed that they are working on a fix, and they'd contact me when it was available. I got a call from them today asking for details of the DVRs I've used with the set.

My suggestion is for everyone having the image shift issue to call Hitachi customer service (800-448-2244) and let them know you're having the issue (even after the HDMI fix they recently released). The squeaky wheel approach often works. ;)

I got a picture of what I'm seeing. This is from about 5 feet away with an unsteady hand, so it's not at all representative of what my picture really looks like. In fact just before this scene I was thinking about how good the picture was on a 40 year old movie. But look at Raquel's hat, it looks like there are black specks on it, and also on her face.

When they cut to the next scene this effect is gone, but this is the type of thing I'm seeing.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u299/mabesnyc/PICT0139.jpg

Does everyone have HDMI issues with this TV?

Does everyone have HDMI issues with this TV?

Define issues?

In terms of the picture "freakouts" (all green/pink screen, sudden pixellations, TV turns off by itself, etc), the HDMI Fix I posted back in Feb on this thread addresses these. The info was from an actual Hitachi Service Bulletin they issued to service centers in Jan of this year. All current F59 owners that post here have applied the fix and it works fine.

HDMI "shift" issues (entire image shifts horizontally for a moment or 2, then returns to normal) has not been fixed as of yet. However, Hitachi is pursuing this, and has been contacted and been in contact with a few F59 owners (that post on this forum). Apparently, another software fix is in the works.

In my own case, the "freakouts" never occured with my set. I hooked up a Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player via HDMI to my F59 in January. Only issue I've ever dealt with is the occasional shift, which happens pretty infrequently (once every several DVDs) and isn't a huge bother for me. I did apply the first fix anyway, just to make the set's software current. I'm awaiting the next Hitachi-mandated fix.

If I get a copy of it first, I will immediately post it (depends on my "anonymous source" ;) ). If not, I'm sure someone else will.

Either way, these fixes can obviously be implemented by a Hitachi service tech (and covered under warranty) or are extremly easy to DIY.

BTW----here's the link that'll take you directly you to the first "fix" post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9668868&&#post9668868

I got a picture of what I'm seeing. This is from about 5 feet away with an unsteady hand, so it's not at all representative of what my picture really looks like. In fact just before this scene I was thinking about how good the picture was on a 40 year old movie. But look at Raquel's hat, it looks like there are black specks on it, and also on her face.

When they cut to the next scene this effect is gone, but this is the type of thing I'm seeing.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u299/mabesnyc/PICT0139.jpg

Maybe I'm wrong, but that looks like digital block noise. That pic is from an HD source (cable), yes? Such noise is usually due to the compression imposed on digital video. Some cable carriers compress stuff more than others. The sat providers, however, seem to be the bigger culprit these days (so I'm told).

Did Kevin only calibrate your HD input? Perhaps some sort of sharpness parameter was adjusted that now brings out more imperfections in the cable HD signal.

Certainly not a slight on your calibrators' part. Despite the "unsteady hand" from the pic, you PQ does look great. Sure Kevin did a great job. Calibrations usually only deal with one input/scanrate. More than one =extra charge. If your DVDs don't exhibit this issue, then my guess is the calibration of the HD input is now bringing out imperfections in the cable HD signal. Not really a fault of your calibrator.

Maybe Mr Bob could chime in here?

Maybe I'm wrong, but that looks like digital block noise. That pic is from an HD source (cable), yes? Such noise is usually due to the compression imposed on digital video. Some cable carriers compress stuff more than others. The sat providers, however, seem to be the bigger culprit these days (so I'm told).

Did Kevin only calibrate your HD input? Perhaps some sort of sharpness parameter was adjusted that now brings out more imperfections in the cable HD signal.

Certainly not a slight on your calibrators' part. Despite the "unsteady hand" from the pic, you PQ does look great. Sure Kevin did a great job. Calibrations usually only deal with one input/scanrate. More than one =extra charge. If your DVDs don't exhibit this issue, then my guess is the calibration of the HD input is now bringing out imperfections in the cable HD signal. Not really a fault of your calibrator.

Maybe Mr Bob could chime in here?


I am seeing blotchiness, but not specks.

What I am seeing seems to be inherent to the medium, not the display device. The sharper the display device gets via supertweaking - the more SUPERCOHERENT the display device gets - the more imperfections will come out that were not visible before.


Mr Bob

Maybe I'm wrong, but that looks like digital block noise. That pic is from an HD source (cable), yes? Such noise is usually due to the compression imposed on digital video. Some cable carriers compress stuff more than others. The sat providers, however, seem to be the bigger culprit these days (so I'm told).

Did Kevin only calibrate your HD input? Perhaps some sort of sharpness parameter was adjusted that now brings out more imperfections in the cable HD signal.

Certainly not a slight on your calibrators' part. Despite the "unsteady hand" from the pic, you PQ does look great. Sure Kevin did a great job. Calibrations usually only deal with one input/scanrate. More than one =extra charge. If your DVDs don't exhibit this issue, then my guess is the calibration of the HD input is now bringing out imperfections in the cable HD signal. Not really a fault of your calibrator.

Maybe Mr Bob could chime in here?


Oh, I'm certainly not blaming the calibration, and I'm pretty much convinced it's the cable source. I'm going to exchange boxes but I doubt it will help. THese effects continue to show up mostly on movies, I watched an entire baseball game and Lost and 24 and didn't see a problem (except for some minor SSE but totally tolerable, especially if I don't look at the wall in a scene and watch the characters instead :)) The game was live, Lost and 24 are new productions.

He did calibrate both DVD and HD.

I am seeing blotchiness, but not specks.

What I am seeing seems to be inherent to the medium, not the display device. The sharper the display device gets via supertweaking - the more SUPERCOHERENT the display device gets - the more imperfections will come out that were not visible before.


Mr Bob

You don't see specks because of the lack of sharpness of the picuture. THey are there, in some cases worse, especially in scences with low light with a lot of brown/yellow. And indoor scene with a lamp casting a glow that is similiar to skin tones, that's when it's really bad, and so I wonder if maybe there is something causing this, or if a poor signal would cause this to happen moreso than in a scene with a lot of light. I don't see it in every show I watch.

Bob....

wondering if I could get your thoughts on this quote:

Reducing overscan does not itself cause overheating in the convergence ICs. What causes overheating is the correction applied to extremes to get out any nonlinearity that you have to correct. When you have to keep pushing the correction waveform harder and get less change in geometry, you end up pushing the chip to its limit. This is unlikely to happen in this set, as the correction needed does not end up being that extreme, IF you do it correctly. that means starting from scratch, clearing the memory, and doing a complete alignment AFTER reducing the overscan.

Where people cause problems is trying to correct distorted geometry with more corrections. The resulting combinations of drive to the ICs becomes inefficient.

Reduce your overscan slighly, THEN follow the entire setup procedure from scratch. You will have no problem with overheating.

Came across this the other day while cruising the display calibrations thread. Trekari, a F59 owner who has posted here plenty in the past, had posed an overscan question regarding the potential threat to the health of his set if he reigned overscan in below the Hitachi factory spec levels.

I have brought my set in to around 4% all over, as I've mentioned here before. I then made the needed geo/conv corrections. Would my set's circuitry be "more comfortable" if I left the H/V pots' settings as they are now and then cleared the ROM memory and redid geo/conv from scratch? Uncorrected DCAM lines (big parabola-looking curves) to straighten out properly w/o a 4% o.scan template might be a big PITA. But would the spacing btwn those lines be geometrically correct--menaing just a matter of getting h/v lines straight, but spaces (blocks) btwn them would be in the "right" place?

Hope that made sense! :)

Just curious.

Oh, I'm certainly not blaming the calibration, and I'm pretty much convinced it's the cable source. I'm going to exchange boxes but I doubt it will help. THese effects continue to show up mostly on movies, I watched an entire baseball game and Lost and 24 and didn't see a problem (except for some minor SSE but totally tolerable, especially if I don't look at the wall in a scene and watch the characters instead :)) The game was live, Lost and 24 are new productions.

He did calibrate both DVD and HD.

Can't say that a new cable box would improve this or not. But I do know that my SD PQ improved when I swapped boxes recently with Comcast. Upgraded to a newer model of Motorola HD-DVR. Ended up with a bigger hard drive and a better video chip inside. HD quality was unaffected (looked great then, looks great now) but that "unwatchable" SD some complain about made a huge leap in PQ for me.

Certainly worth a shot in your case.

Bob....

wondering if I could get your thoughts on this quote:

Reducing overscan does not itself cause overheating in the convergence ICs. What causes overheating is the correction applied to extremes to get out any nonlinearity that you have to correct. When you have to keep pushing the correction waveform harder and get less change in geometry, you end up pushing the chip to its limit. This is unlikely to happen in this set, as the correction needed does not end up being that extreme, IF you do it correctly. that means starting from scratch, clearing the memory, and doing a complete alignment AFTER reducing the overscan.

Where people cause problems is trying to correct distorted geometry with more corrections. The resulting combinations of drive to the ICs becomes inefficient.

Reduce your overscan slighly, THEN follow the entire setup procedure from scratch. You will have no problem with overheating.

Came across this the other day while cruising the display calibrations thread. Trekari, a F59 owner who has posted here plenty in the past, had posed an overscan question regarding the potential threat to the health of his set if he reigned overscan in below the Hitachi factory spec levels.

I have brought my set in to around 4% all over, as I've mentioned here before. I then made the needed geo/conv corrections. Would my set's circuitry be "more comfortable" if I left the H/V pots' settings as they are now and then cleared the ROM memory and redid geo/conv from scratch? Uncorrected DCAM lines (big parabola-looking curves) to straighten out properly w/o a 4% o.scan template might be a big PITA. But would the spacing btwn those lines be geometrically correct--menaing just a matter of getting h/v lines straight, but spaces (blocks) btwn them would be in the "right" place?

Hope that made sense! :)

Just curious.


One of the worst cases I ever saw was on a Mit when the points were so jammed against each other, and/or fighting the general geometry settings, that there were curves BETWEEN the cursor points, which were uncorrectable. On that set I found ALL hor points over +100! (of a possible +- 511; 511 possible point positions in each direction, per point)

Caused the HSTAT to be in the ozone, in having to compensate, and in the process yanking all the points way out of linearity with each other and thus also between each other. I could not BELIEVE that Mit had let such an abysmal, stress-causing (and heat causing) scenario get by QC!

When I centered the HSTAT and also zero'd all the hor points, the pic had moved over to the side by 7"!!! I had to change the centering magnets on the CRTs to get it back to normal.

I then redid the entire hor scenario, whereupon the bad between point linearities disappeared.


Yes, starting from scratch will get you better linearity between cursor points, and will keep you a lot farther away from having your set freak out because you're hitting the endpoints of the allowances in the various points of your cursor positioning.


I had a Hit recently where I had to replace one of the conv ICs. After the chip replacement, the green was taken in quite a bit horizontally and pincushioned horizontally quite a bit, but where the red and blue were still superimposing on each other nicely and positioned correctly for factory level overscan. They had been left unaffected. Obviously the easiest way back to Kansas would be to do ONLY the green, set it to the relatively nice red/blue grid.

Couldn't do it. The green was already way near to being maxed out on lots of its points, it freaked out very readily. Turns out green has a lot less allowance to it in terms of how far to the left and right a point can go than red and blue do, for cursor positioning. Red and blue go a lot wider than green.

I had to find the centerpoints of the green, and basically leave them there, straightening whatever needed straightening, in the green scenario. Which left the red and blue both a lot farther out/wider than the green. But I knew that green had been dicked with as much as it possibly could be without freaking out, so I moved the red and blue IN, to line up with the green. That's when I found out how much MORE the red and blue move, than the green.


I coulda wiped everything out and started over, but that takes lots of extra time, and this was NOT a videophile owner. They simply needed their kids' baby sitter back...


Mr Bob

I ran through the focus adjustments on my 51f59 again last night, this time following the service manual. I can't get the blue defocus into range at all. No matter what there is a 2-3mm band on either side of the focused blue. I would like to get it down to the 1mm specified in the manual, but I am at a loss on what to do next to get it there. I can get the "main" beam tightly focused mechanically as well as the elctronic focus. When adjusting the main band grows and shrinks as it should, but the perimeter band just tags along with it, if that makes any sense.

Any pointers are greatly appreciated.

Yes, starting from scratch will get you better linearity between cursor points, and will keep you a lot farther away from having your set freak out because you're hitting the endpoints of the allowances in the various points of your cursor positioning.




Mr Bob

Bob,

OK. Mainly asking 'cause if redoing the reduced o.scan gridline fixes from a "clean slate" in ROM would mean that much less IC stress (ie=longer life), then it may be worth a shot---albeit a likely time-consuming shot. :eek:

Didn't have any conv adj "freakouts" occur when doing the post-o.scan conv/geo fixes before.

I have redone the DCAM grid from the uncorrected point before when I reset o.scan to factory levels and used the F59 jig. Of course, that jig is useless for 4% overscan. However, I'd guess that the jig's dead center point would be the same. Therefore I'm assuming the jig could be put up to do the raster centering of green.

If the uncorrected lines can then be straightened out by following the raster, 3x3, 7x5, 13x9 steps without passing outside their "Goldilocks zones"--and give me the same or potentially even better results than I have now--it may be worth the effort if it meant further prolonging the life of my set.

Worst case, more for you to dick with in the future! :D

Would "eyeballing" the lines be best (either the DCAM grid or ext sources like AVIA, etc) or the old "lines of string attached to screen frame" method?

Bob,

OK. Mainly asking 'cause if redoing the reduced o.scan gridline fixes from a "clean slate" in ROM would mean that much less IC stress (ie=longer life), then it may be worth a shot---albeit a likely time-consuming shot. :eek:

Didn't have any conv adj "freakouts" occur when doing the post-o.scan conv/geo fixes before.

I have redone the DCAM grid from the uncorrected point before when I reset o.scan to factory levels and used the F59 jig. Of course, that jig is useless for 4% overscan. However, I'd guess that the jig's dead center point would be the same. Therefore I'm assuming the jig could be put up to do the raster centering of green.

If the uncorrected lines can then be straightened out by following the raster, 3x3, 7x5, 13x9 steps without passing outside their "Goldilocks zones"--and give me the same or potentially even better results than I have now--it may be worth the effort if it meant further prolonging the life of my set.

Worst case, more for you to dick with in the future! :D

Would "eyeballing" the lines be best (either the DCAM grid or ext sources like AVIA, etc) or the old "lines of string attached to screen frame" method?


For centering, run string corner to corner, they'll cross in the exact center. For AVIA, you're then set.

For HD, do you have a pattern that indicates center? I don't. I use the incoming HD image itself, get the sides correctly o'scan'd, then make the linearities correct, which centers my pic correctly.

If you have already reset your conv completely once, and tweaked for factory jig, you're prolly safe to leave it as it is. I have never needed to completely erase all conv settings and start over, and I have done lots of o'scan reduct's. Since you reduce the o'scan with the h/v trimpots on the front of the mother board while leaving the conv points alone, the retweaking you do after that, in the various modes, is mopup more than anything else, and rather minimal, compared to other scenarios I could name. It would be much more stressful if you tried to do the entire o'scan reduct via points ONLY, without touching the h/v trimpots.


Worst case scenario, the ICs wear out and you replace them at some time in the future. Your set itself won't be damaged by overwork/overstress, only the ICs will.


Mr Bob

For centering, run string corner to corner, they'll cross in the exact center. For AVIA, you're then set.

For HD, do you have a pattern that indicates center? I don't. I use the incoming HD image itself, get the sides correctly o'scan'd, then make the linearities correct, which centers my pic correctly.

If you have already reset your conv completely once, and tweaked for factory jig, you're prolly safe to leave it as it is. I have never needed to completely erase all conv settings and start over, and I have done lots of o'scan reduct's. Since you reduce the o'scan with the h/v trimpots on the front of the mother board while leaving the conv points alone, the retweaking you do after that, in the various modes, is mopup more than anything else, and rather minimal, compared to other scenarios I could name. It would be much more stressful if you tried to do the entire o'scan reduct via points ONLY, without touching the h/v trimpots.


Worst case scenario, the ICs wear out and you replace them at some time in the future. Your set itself won't be damaged by overwork/overstress, only the ICs will.


Mr Bob

Cool.

Thanks as always, Bob.

Just noticed my previous post was #666 for this thread. :eek:

Could there be a meaning to that? ;)

Bob,

Did the corner to corner string test. Raster position was @ dead center.

Since IC's can be easily replaced, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over their current workload. None of the 3 colors' DCAM lines approach anything close to "freaking out" at any point on the grid (and I have seen such freakouts when doing serious noob adjstments on my old RPTV!). Everything sits solidly and likes to stay there.

Will just leave it as it is (which is very nice, BTW) and wait to have you bring out the remaining little bits of "perfection" later this year.

As far as real-world HD centering goes, I did find last night that an excellent reference is ESPNHD and their new 4:3 pillarbox bars.

One question, though. Although I don't need to access it (my images are vertically centered), but why doesn't the F59 allow vertical position adjustment on HD material? The service menu H position has two different settings choices (one marked with an "H" next to it's adj. value and one not). Always assumed that the "H" parameter was for HD centering and the "normal" one for SD/4:3 video--although they both can affect HD. The V position does not affect HD at all, only SD.

Just curious, mainly to see if this is just a Hitachi thing or if it's common on other sets.

One question, though. Although I don't need to access it (my images are vertically centered), but why doesn't the F59 allow vertical position adjustment on HD material? The service menu H position has two different settings choices (one marked with an "H" next to it's adj. value and one not). Always assumed that the "H" parameter was for HD centering and the "normal" one for SD/4:3 video--although they both can affect HD. The V position does not affect HD at all, only SD.

Just curious, mainly to see if this is just a Hitachi thing or if it's common on other sets.


Most other topnotch brands do include both vertical and hor centering availability in sm, for all scanrates. Am just as surprised as you are, about Hit's lack of it!


Mr Bob

Most other topnotch brands do include both vertical and hor centering availability in sm, for all scanrates. Am just as surprised as you are, about Hit's lack of it!


Mr Bob

Who knows....maybe I'm missing something--entirely possible :o .

Perhaps it's deeper into the sm.

Fortunately, my HD signals are (or cetainly appear to be) vertically centered already. I know the last real HD "reference" I had--Comcast's INHD Tune Up calibration program---had it's o.scan and conv/geo test displays show up perfectly centered vertically.

You can center the image vertically, it's just entirely non-intuitive. From this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9540051&&#post9540051):

...I figured out how you can center the Vertical screen position (And it doesn't work on the main SM page on my set). Go to the FC4 settings, enter them, and the Vertical position is there and actually moves the screen position.

You can center the image vertically, it's just entirely non-intuitive. From this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9540051&&#post9540051):


Figured it must be buried SOMEWHERE in the service menu. Was gonna check the service manual when I got home. Saved me reading thru that huge chart of SM parameters!

Does seem strange that an HDTV would not have a v position adjustment for the scanrate that would be getting the most use.

Thanks for the heads up, sd. :D

I ran through the focus adjustments on my 51f59 again last night, this time following the service manual. I can't get the blue defocus into range at all. No matter what there is a 2-3mm band on either side of the focused blue. I would like to get it down to the 1mm specified in the manual, but I am at a loss on what to do next to get it there. I can get the "main" beam tightly focused mechanically as well as the elctronic focus. When adjusting the main band grows and shrinks as it should, but the perimeter band just tags along with it, if that makes any sense.

Any pointers are greatly appreciated.

First thing I would recommend is to make sure your optics are clean. You'd be surprised what you find on even a new set. Jwebb already has had to remove spiderwebs inside of his. I would recommend that you remove the lens barrels and clean the coolant cups and the bottom lens on each barrel as well. Remove, clean, and replace only one barrel at a time. There are 4 screws for each lens. It should be obvious that they attach to the lens barrel. DO NOT LOOSEN OR REMOVE THE OTHER 4 SCREWS! They are for the coolant cover itself. If you remove the screen, it will make this much easier on the 51F59. You can then check the mirror as well. Since it is not a first surface mirror, cleaning it is much simpler (the top surface is NOT the reflective area). If you have the time and the materials, it's also a good time to install a lens hood and blackout cloth inside.

OK folks...who still has the image shift issue--after having the Hitachi HDMI service menu fix performed--and HAS NOT contacted Hitachi customer support (800-448-2244) yet?

Over the last week, on my set, it seems like the shift issue happens more frequently and lasts longer (although it could be that I'm just getting increasingly sensitive to it as time goes by :( ).

I have to believe that the more people that communicate to Hitachi that they're still having the image shift issue--even after the HDMI fix was performed--the faster we'll see a solution from Hitachi. ;)

Regarding cleaning the lenses, I was wondering if I could get one of those electrostatic dusters, and just very lightly go over them once a month or so, would that help to keep dust from building up, maybe prevent the need for a full cleaning once a year, which I believe is recommended.

Regarding cleaning the lenses, I was wondering if I could get one of those electrostatic dusters, and just very lightly go over them once a month or so, would that help to keep dust from building up, maybe prevent the need for a full cleaning once a year, which I believe is recommended.


Try it and see. Prolly never been done. If you don't give it a chance to mat, who knows?

I know DaveHir cleans his often, and I believe doesn't need the big optics cleaning job done now.

An ionizer placed in back of your RPTV helps also. It ionizes the particulates in the air BEFORE they have a chance to enter your set thru all the cracks, making it impossible for them to get in, as they are drawn to and stick to the sides of the unit instead.


Mr Bob

Try it and see. Prolly never been done. If you don't give it a chance to mat, who knows?

I know DaveHir cleans his often, and I believe doesn't need the big optics cleaning job done now.

An ionizer placed in back of your RPTV helps also. It ionizes the particulates in the air BEFORE they have a chance to enter your set thru all the cracks, making it impossible for them to get in, as they are drawn to and stick to the sides of the unit instead.


Mr Bob

Until we quit smoking, which we hope will be soon (Chantrix supposedly works wonders) both might be a good idea. You said the screen will not collect smoke, Kevin said and I'm sure you know this, smoke will gum up the insides.

Until we quit smoking, which we hope will be soon (Chantrix supposedly works wonders) both might be a good idea. You said the screen will not collect smoke, Kevin said and I'm sure you know this, smoke will gum up the insides.


Smoke will gum up anything, including your lungs. You should stop.

I said the screen will not collect dust, at least not like the lens tops do. Sometimes, rarely, I have found dust on the rear of the screen sandwich, at the fresnel layer that faces the mirror. A clean DRY terry cloth towel will take that off.

I don't remember saying anything about it not collecting smoke. I know the mirror and the rears and fronts of the lenses collect scads of it.


Mr Bob

OK folks...who still has the image shift issue--after having the Hitachi HDMI service menu fix performed--and HAS NOT contacted Hitachi customer support (800-448-2244) yet?

Over the last week, on my set, it seems like the shift issue happens more frequently and lasts longer (although it could be that I'm just getting increasingly sensitive to it as time goes by :( ).

I have to believe that the more people that communicate to Hitachi that they're still having the image shift issue--even after the HDMI fix was performed--the faster we'll see a solution from Hitachi. ;)

Still have the shift, but hasn't increased with my DVD player (still once every few discs, and only once during playback if it happens). I have contacted Hitachi (email and phone).

Keep in mind that most of us we're complaining about (and to Hitachi) the more serious "freakouts" for months before the fix came down the pike for that--which was released in Jan '07.

Be patient, but be vigilant. That goes for everybody.

I echo vstream's call. Keep bugging Hitachi, everyone. The squeaky wheel...yada yada yada.....

edit:

And just as a point of reference, the first comment/complaint made on the AVS Forum about the original F59 HDMI issue was posted on 6/28/06 over @ the 57F59A thread.

The software fix for that took about 6 months to surface. With all of us keenly aware of HDMI issues and the ability to fix them via software/service menu tweaks--and by remaining vocal about to Hitachi--it hopefully won't take as long for a solution this time.

If my "source" for the last fix happens to supply me with a new one for the shifting bug (if/when it happens), I will post it here immediately.

Oh yeah....remind me vstream...what are you running into your F59's HDMI input? Isn't it your cable box? For me, it's a Sony NS75H DVD player. Never had the old "freakouts" with it (even before the fix) but the shift has occasionally hapened since day one. And Hitachi knows that I have this issue with a Sony player.

Oh yeah....remind me vstream...what are you running into your F59's HDMI input? Isn't it your cable box? For me, it's a Sony NS75H DVD player. Never had the old "freakouts" with it (even before the fix) but the shift has occasionally hapened since day one. And Hitachi knows that I have this issue with a Sony player.

It's my Comcast DVR (Moto DCT3416 series I), and it also happened with prior DVRs (DCT6412 and DCT3412 series I).

Well its official, Hitachi is going to ship me another 51F59A (it better be an A and not a J... J's have that obnoxious screen protector that catches glare and reflections like mad).

They called Friday, said they will call again to let me know date for a truck to come pickup my "old" 51F59A and wheel the new one into my house.

Good thing they're going to wheel it in, too. I found out week before last that I have an fracture to my L4 vertrebrae I never knew I had, and I am currently having back problems as a result.

Well its official, Hitachi is going to ship me another 51F59A (it better be an A and not a J... J's have that obnoxious screen protector that catches glare and reflections like mad).

They called Friday, said they will call again to let me know date for a truck to come pickup my "old" 51F59A and wheel the new one into my house.

Good thing they're going to wheel it in, too. I found out week before last that I have an fracture to my L4 vertebrae I never knew I had, and I am currently having back problems as a result.

Well, good for you (not the back trouble, of course).

In terms of the "J" model and it's screen protector---if you did end up with one, the protective glare factory ;) is (or should be) easily removable. Mr Bob could hep you out there, I believe.

Didn't realize that the "J"'s had this screen. But it makes sense, since the only place I have ever seen a 51F59J advertised was in an ad for a "Rent-To-Own" store. Guessing the protective screen would be a neccessity for something that would likely get trucked back and forth a lot.

Guessing it's highly unlikely you end up with one of those, though. Hitachi is probably pulling a new model from a retailer's stock. Didn't you get yours @ Sears? That's likely where it's coming from.

Good luck with the new set and the back!

Guessing it's highly unlikely you end up with one of those, though. Hitachi is probably pulling a new model from a retailer's stock. Didn't you get yours @ Sears? That's likely where it's coming from.

Good luck with the new set and the back!

Yeah, got it @ Sears. Probably won't buy anything else electronic there though-- too many hoops to jump through when you need warranty service.

I just called up Mr Bob to thank him for all the help he has provided on this form. I read through all the posts here and spent a good hour tweaking everything and was AMAZED at how much better the picture looks now. In the service menu, I tweaked the whites to make them much more tame and the colorg fix also has helped as well.

I havn't tried the HDMI fix yet since I have nothing hooked to HDMI as of right now (Comcast Motorola DVR box and PS2 on component inputs - I'm saving the HDMI for the new Xbox 360 ;) ) but if I have any issues I will be sure to check here.

I also turned the contrast waaaaaaaaaaaay down and set the settings as instructed here using the standard color settings and holy crap is it an improvement. The original factory settings actually hurt my eyes they were so bad. Also, the burn in tips are greatly appreciated as well.

These fixes have saved me hundreds of dollars on a similar size LCD set and I want to thank everyone here. Now I'm off to watch my awesome-tuned set!

Try it and see. Prolly never been done. If you don't give it a chance to mat, who knows?

I know DaveHir cleans his often, and I believe doesn't need the big optics cleaning job done now.

An ionizer placed in back of your RPTV helps also. It ionizes the particulates in the air BEFORE they have a chance to enter your set thru all the cracks, making it impossible for them to get in, as they are drawn to and stick to the sides of the unit instead.


Mr Bob

I tried a Swiffer cloth. Didn't remove the bits of dust I could see on the lenses, looking at the mirror. Or maybe it did and left tiny fibers behind. Didn't hurt anything. I thought I would try compressed air, and put a small bowl over the lenses until the dust settled.

Will definitely get an ionizer.

Anything to avoid having to open the set up for a full cleaning every year.

Does the F59 series have a fixed refresh rate of 60hz? or is it random?

Thanks

anyone know of a setting to keep the closed caption display on the bottom of the display
of the 51f59

sometimes it displays on the top, of the screen.

Thank you.

An ionizer placed in back of your RPTV helps also. It ionizes the particulates in the air BEFORE they have a chance to enter your set thru all the cracks, making it impossible for them to get in, as they are drawn to and stick to the sides of the unit instead.


Just beware that Ionizers can be bad for your health...especially if you have asthma or other allergies...the ozone produced by the ionizer can be very harmful and cause your allergy etc symptoms to get worse.

anyone know of a setting to keep the closed caption display on the bottom of the display
of the 51f59

sometimes it displays on the top, of the screen.

Thank you.

CC material displays wherever it is programmed/told to do so. Sometimes CC's appear at the top of the screen if there is other text on-screen.

There's no CC positioning function in the F59. You are at the mercy of the broadcast source.

I tried a Swiffer cloth. Didn't remove the bits of dust I could see on the lenses, looking at the mirror. Or maybe it did and left tiny fibers behind. Didn't hurt anything. I thought I would try compressed air, and put a small bowl over the lenses until the dust settled.

Will definitely get an ionizer.

Anything to avoid having to open the set up for a full cleaning every year.


To really see how dirty your lenses are you can't use the mirror, too direct an angle into the lens. You have to take a strong flashlight and direct it onto the lenses from the side, while you observe from the front, with both at the same eye level, looking directly at the lens from the front, no mirror involved. Seeing the dust while lit from the side is the only way to REALLY get the impact of how thick it is. When they are dirty, you will see that they are absolutely furry, when you use this approach.


You have to start the swiffing process when your set is new and has not had a chance yet for the contaminants to start matting on your lenses, embedding themselves on there.

After a year or 2, it's like you had let syrup dry on there and act like flypaper with the airborne dust/smoke/gritty particulates being drawn by the static-causing HV, and no swiffer or any other brush will get each day's dose off after that. We're lucky it is not the kind of goo that only lighter fluid will take off tho I would find a way to do that also, if needed. It IS detergent soluble, fortunately.

As I have said many times, it requires a good WET method to get lenses clean at that point.


Mr Bob

Have found that the dry electrostatic Swiffers (or Grab-Its) are good for getting dust off of the screen of an F59, however.

Just be gentle and work in a light up/down motion.

Question about moving the set slightly. I'm having a party in a few weeks and we'll be watching some baseball. Depending on how many people are here, I might want to angle the TV a bit toward the center of the room, moving the left edge forward about a foot.

If I do that will it affect the picture? When I first got it I moved it forward a couple of feet to make a connection and the picture went a little wacky, but I might have had it on the Air input at the time. If the picture is affected, how would I fix it?

Re cleaning, I doubt it's very dirty at this point, it's only a couple of months old, but I don't suppose there is such a thing as too much cleaning, so I'll get some Windex, sans amonia, and clean them. I read earlier in the thread that regular paper towels, as long as they don't have any additives, are OK.

Question about moving the set slightly. I'm having a party in a few weeks and we'll be watching some baseball. Depending on how many people are here, I might want to angle the TV a bit toward the center of the room, moving the left edge forward about a foot.

If I do that will it affect the picture? When I first got it I moved it forward a couple of feet to make a connection and the picture went a little wacky, but I might have had it on the Air input at the time. If the picture is affected, how would I fix it?

Re cleaning, I doubt it's very dirty at this point, it's only a couple of months old, but I don't suppose there is such a thing as too much cleaning, so I'll get some Windex, sans amonia, and clean them. I read earlier in the thread that regular paper towels, as long as they don't have any additives, are OK.

Just keep 'em well scrunched up, and your hands ultra clean before you touch them.

Yes, moving it that much will affect your picture. That's what static conv is all about. Of course I don't think Hit's have that, so you're stuck with doing a MF after each movement.

I'd always rather use a crosshair static conv adjustment, but we can only work with what we are given.

Static can be readjusted in sm/DCAM, but not in User, as far as I know, on Hit's. If you are versed in that, you can forego needing to depend on MF.


Mr Bob

I don't even know if my MF works now, the last time I did convergence in the service menu I don't think I reset it. If not I can do so, I'll just go into SM convergence and immediately exit to set MF. Then I can use it at the party if I need to, and afterwards do manual convergence if needed. I've never really had any problems with convergence on the set, even when I was just using MF.

Lee Bailey maybe you can answer this, this is from the DIY guide -

WARNING: YOU MUST DO THE FOLLOWING STEPS TO COMPLETE MAGIC FOCUS INITIALIZATION. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY POSTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITHOUT DOING THIS STEP BECAUSE THEY LOOSE MAGIC FOCUS!

(steps are then listed)

When you do this initialization, does it actually perform MF or just write it to memory? If the latter, I can do that now, then I have an easy way to get the picture back if it goes wrongfor example just moving it forward to make a connection, I may be getting a new DVD player or decide to use HDMI.) I can alwawys go in and do a "perfect" convergence later.

Scrunching up the paper towel to clean is a great idea. My plan was to hold my hand at about a 45 degree angle on the side of the lens, and then rotate my hand as I went across. That will be easy with a scrunched up PT.

Just keep 'em well scrunched up, and your hands ultra clean before you touch them.

Yes, moving it that much will affect your picture. That's what static conv is all about. Of course I don't think Hit's have that, so you're stuck with doing a MF after each movement.

I'd always rather use a crosshair static conv adjustment, but we can only work with what we are given.

Static can be readjusted in sm/DCAM, but not in User, as far as I know, on Hit's. If you are versed in that, you can forego needing to depend on MF.


Mr Bob

Bob

The Hit F59s do allow manual 9 pt crosshair and 117pt crosshatch grid adjustments (of red and blue only) as part of Magic Focus. When MF is selected an option menu pops up first and ask whether you want "Auto" (what we all consider MF) or either manual mode.

Of course, you are limited to the internal crosshairs/hatch for conv reference. No ext video option unless you go into DCAM mode.

Don't know if that's what you meant about lack of static conv adj. My old Hit UWX10B didn't have this, just regular Auto MF. Nice that Hit added these features to later model RPTVs.

I did move my set recently while cleaning the wood floors in my house (very pregnant wife has begun nesting ;) ) w/o any major conv freakouts. THe F59s are built with very smooth casters and rolling it several feet across a smooth floor was fine. Did catch a couple of spots that needed very slight re-do afterwards(damn these eyes that have become so sensitive to conv/geo errors! :eek: ), but otherwise it was smooth sailing.

Now picking it up to move it? Surely a different story.

I don't even know if my MF works now, the last time I did convergence in the service menu I don't think I reset it. If not I can do so, I'll just go into SM convergence and immediately exit to set MF. Then I can use it at the party if I need to, and afterwards do manual convergence if needed. I've never really had any problems with convergence on the set, even when I was just using MF.

Lee Bailey maybe you can answer this, this is from the DIY guide -

WARNING: YOU MUST DO THE FOLLOWING STEPS TO COMPLETE MAGIC FOCUS INITIALIZATION. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY POSTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITHOUT DOING THIS STEP BECAUSE THEY LOOSE MAGIC FOCUS!

(steps are then listed)

When you do this initialization, does it actually perform MF or just write it to memory? If the latter, I can do that now, then I have an easy way to get the picture back if it goes wrongfor example just moving it forward to make a connection, I may be getting a new DVD player or decide to use HDMI.) I can alwawys go in and do a "perfect" convergence later.



Sorry...not Lee :) ...

...but inititalization of MF (I beleive) resets the info used by auto MF in relation to the screen sensors and the current DCAM ROM info. During the initialization process, it does appear to go thru an auto MF process (although the screen says INITIAL). So it may also run a MF, although the process is more likely just lining up with the screen sensors.

This is why reigning in overscan TOO much can futz w/ MF functions---if you get the proper grid points out of the operating range of the MF sensors.

I stopped initializing MF myself simply 'cause I never use it. Any conv. touchups needed, I just go to DCAM and use ext video (usually HD programming and/or AVIA stuff) to make fixes.

Thanks. Maybe I bumped the set that time it altered the picture. Will slide it forward carefully, no big deal if it throws off convergence, I can fix.

Scrunching up the paper towel to clean is a great idea. My plan was to hold my hand at about a 45 degree angle on the side of the lens, and then rotate my hand as I went across. That will be easy with a scrunched up PT.


Yeah, like a streetsweeper's brush rotating backwards, going AGAINST the motion involved...

;)

Mr Bob

Bob

The Hit F59s do allow manual 9 pt crosshair and 117pt crosshatch grid adjustments (of red and blue only) as part of Magic Focus. When MF is selected an option menu pops up first and ask whether you want "Auto" (what we all consider MF) or either manual mode.

Of course, you are limited to the internal crosshairs/hatch for conv reference. No ext video option unless you go into DCAM mode.

Don't know if that's what you meant about lack of static conv adj. My old Hit UWX10B didn't have this, just regular Auto MF. Nice that Hit added these features to later model RPTVs.

I did move my set recently while cleaning the wood floors in my house (very pregnant wife has begun nesting ;) ) w/o any major conv freakouts. THe F59s are built with very smooth casters and rolling it several feet across a smooth floor was fine. Did catch a couple of spots that needed very slight re-do afterwards(damn these eyes that have become so sensitive to conv/geo errors! :eek: ), but otherwise it was smooth sailing.

Now picking it up to move it? Surely a different story.


I know that in User they have adjustable points all over the screen, but I don't believe they have a center crosshair, and a way to move the ENTIRE picture up and down and side to side on red and blue. Going to the center spot and moving red and blue side to side and up and down JUST IN THAT ONE SPOT is my primary way of separating colors on a Hit, for the Cantilever Technique. On other brands this center point moves EVERYTHING in that color the same amount. On Hit's, only the center point moves, the rest stay where they are, which is great for the separation, allowing JUST that point's area to separate the red and blue from the green, to make each color independent of the others, for the focusing op.

As such, if the entire screen moves off center on one color against the others for any reason - the Earth tilts, changing the magnetic field affecting it, whatever - you gotta move EVERY point to compensate, in User, which is a genuine PITA!


Mr Bob

How often do you guys recommend cleaning the lens and mirrors and stuff?

Im sorta nervous removing the screen. Im not sure I even want to attempt it.

How often do you guys recommend cleaning the lens and mirrors and stuff?

Im sorta nervous removing the screen. Im not sure I even want to attempt it.


I recommend that it be done every year without fail. After 1 year it becomes noticeable in your dark areas, and at 3 years and beyond it has already become painfully obvious.

I am available for phone consultation if you want me to walk you thru it. I will hold your hand on the phone all along the way, keeping your possibly soon to be irreplaceable optics - and you - safe.


Mr Bob

I would really be interested in doing this Mr. Bob. Probably not now, but in the next couple months (got the TV in November and want to keep it in ship shape).

Does cleaning the optics void an EW? like from Best Buy?

Thanks!

First off I gotta say I've followed these posts for quite awhile now and there has been some great input for improving the quality of these TV's.

It also has been well established that the tuners in these sets upconvert to get a 1080i signal. I did not want to believe this, and so I hesitated for months before I finally took the plunge and purchased a Samsung DTB-H260F tuner.

:eek: The difference in clarity is like night and day for OTA HD broadcasts. Also an improvement that I didn't expect was the color quality. It seems the Hitachi tuners have a color space issue with HD content that I really did not see till the Samsung tuner. I did not see any improvement in 480i broadcasts however.

For OTA HD material this is by far the best "tweak" I have done to date. I have seen others post pictures... but my eyes could never really see that big of a difference with the "before and after" pictures, which makes me hesitant to post pictures. Believe me, there is a difference. It absolutely blew me away! Even my wife who usually gives me a hard time with my "gadgets" was awestruck.

I would highly recommend an external HD tuner to anyone who basically watches OTA with access to HD content.

I would really be interested in doing this Mr. Bob. Probably not now, but in the next couple months (got the TV in November and want to keep it in ship shape).

Does cleaning the optics void an EW? like from Best Buy?

Thanks!


Optics cleaning should be PART of an EW, or ESP - Extended Service Plan - as it is more commonly known. A lot of them SAY it is part of theirs, but know next to nothing re. what to do about it. No, I have never heard of one being invalidated by optics cleaning, and if I were the owner and heard they did, I'd scream bloody murder, if I were you.

This is taking into account, however, that there ARE hazards to optics cleaning, where it can go horribly wrong. I recently witnessed the internal coolant covers of a Hitachi where the tech who had replaced all 3 guns had apparently used a dry, big Brillo pad - not a fine steel wool pad, which woulda been just as bad, of course - to clean the coolant covers of the owner's new guns while he was in there. At least that's what it looked like. And the CRT replacement had been done under Extended Warranty. At the time he had paid to have me come over and really razzle-dazzle his set, and when I got to that stage I had to call him over and point that out to him, which stopped us both short. He was on the phone to CC the next day, to get them completely replaced again, and it had only been a year since they had done the original replacement.

They eventually offered to replace his set instead, which infuriated the hell out of him, since we had done hundreds in work just to make it look its best even under those compromised conditions. Even tho I tightened stuff up and redid his grayscale, and completely realigned his color decoding - which would not need to be done again with simply replaced-again CRTs, but would with a new set - delivering a seriously improved picture which he was really excited about afterward, the set was now incapable of delivering CRT type blacks. It could do DLP level blacks, but CRT level blacks would require replacement of those CRTs and a full workup afterwards. And DLP level blacks were NOT what he signed on for, when he intentionally bought CRT for their stunning, 3D depth perception level blacks!


Don't take this optics cleaning thing lightly. I am the ONLY active calibrator I know who has made a public and searing and yes, passionate declaration that it is even necessary! The only other calibrator I know of who did the same was Craig Miller, who was incredible at our craft but is now retired. He used techniques on every CRT RPTV he calibrated - was booked months in advance for Mits's, the only brand he calibrated, during the years he worked - that he had developed while maintaining the optics on his extensive telescope collection.

I know of NO service entity which has made such a declaration. And if there was one, which has tried and true methods for doing so that will not damage irreplaceable optical parts, like my methods always deliver.


All in all, yes it's a completely critical service needed on ALL CRT RPTVs, and no, it's not flagrantly supported ANYWHERE that I know of like I do, but thru me. Whether it will void your EW I don't know. Whether you absolutely NEED IT - to do it or have it done - to keep your set looking new and its optical path crystal clear at all times because of the HV inherent in CRT use, I am 100% sure the answer to THAT is yes.

If you want further info, see my website for more details as to why it needs to be done, and regularly.

The pix in my last post were of a 7 year old Pioneer, BTW, both taken the same day, before and after my optical cleaning procedure. I was not able to lower the brightness level on my uploaded photocopy, but with the actual brightness of the set well dialed in, the after pic looks even better, as the blacks clamp to black even better in real life and on my photo print, than they do in the version you will see on your computer monitor.


Mr Bob

You would think it would be easy to buy Windex. Went to the store, they had regular, which I know has amonia, Windex antibacterial, Windex with vinegar, and No Drip Foaming Action.Will have to see if I can find the ingredients for each kind, though the vinegar type did say no amonia on the label.

You would think it would be easy to buy Windex. Went to the store, they had regular, which I know has amonia, Windex antibacterial, Windex with vinegar, and No Drip Foaming Action.Will have to see if I can find the ingredients for each kind, though the vinegar type did say no amonia on the label.


Just buy Glass Plus and be done with it. It's commonly available, doesn't have ammonia in it, and works superbly well, both on mirror and lenses.

Just be sure to allow around 5 complete passes, before your mirror will start to look like it's "so clean it seems to disappear..."


Mr Bob

I wish I could afford to have you fly out and calibrate my set. I'd be interested in getting into the business, well, not business, but trade myself. I'm a student right now (college) and pretty much learning as I go.

Love this TV and love the CRT sets. Man does HD DVD on this thing look amazing.

Do you think, in about a couple of months (TV will be around 8-10 months old by then), I should be able to do a good optics cleaning? Where would I go to get some more information about doing this?

Also, what kind of other maintenance should I do to maintain the good picture I have and keep the quality going for as long as possible?

Thanks again Mr. Bob, you are one of the few people i'd trust on this sort of job, or jobs.

Sam

I wish I could afford to have you fly out and calibrate my set. I'd be interested in getting into the business, well, not business, but trade myself. I'm a student right now (college) and pretty much learning as I go.

Love this TV and love the CRT sets. Man does HD DVD on this thing look amazing.

Do you think, in about a couple of months (TV will be around 8-10 months old by then), I should be able to do a good optics cleaning? Where would I go to get some more information about doing this?

Also, what kind of other maintenance should I do to maintain the good picture I have and keep the quality going for as long as possible?

Thanks again Mr. Bob, you are one of the few people i'd trust on this sort of job, or jobs.

Sam

I am afraid that by the time you master the learning curve and buy all the necessary equipment, there won't be many CRT RPTVs left to do. They are no longer being produced, so the only ones you will find to work on will be older ones, that have been purchased recently to long ago.

There's already not enough CRT capable calibrators around for the few videophiles who care enough to get the very best out of their displays now, for lots of them to make a living at it. You would not only scrape by yourself, but you would also take biz off the table of other more experienced calibrators, who have devoted their entire careers to this enterprise. Like me.

Would that it be different. Would that CRT had kept its hold on the display market, would that a 65" HDready could still fetch $8000, like it was in the begnning of HD. Can't tell you how many owners of now reeaally cheap displays are having problems with the prices charged for calibration, which these days can take up to 1/3-1/2 the selling price of the display they just bought. In the old days that wouildn't happen - calibration price was always just a fraction of the purchase price. Nowadays I have to collar these owners of CRT displays that have been GIVEN to them, FREE, when the calibration price is not in a seemingly coherent position with the price they paid for the unit, and try to get them to see how much MORE money they have to spend on calibration than the owner who paid for it retail, up front, with money out of pocket. These people are something for nothing'ers and have a problem with calibration being so expensive RELATIVE to the cost of their display, and it's like pulling teeth to get them to realize otherwise.


Now, if you want to look at a future of calibrating fixed pixel, be my guest, there's quite a future in that. Same factors will still apply, but fixed pixel IS the future, now that 1080p is here and can compete with CRT for 1080 resolution, despite the fact that they are still way up there in price compared to our CRT format. 1080p IS here, and is going to be here for a long time to come.

It hasn't been, till this year, in the consumer end of the market. 720p was all that was available to people wanting fixed pixel up till now, and our 1080i capable CRT sets when fully dialed in have always looked marvelously better than ANY 720p fixed pixel set out there.


But I think you're a little late for wanting a future in CRT RPTV calibrating.

Sorry!

:(

OTOH, I am available for whatever training/info you want to know about CRT calibrating, and have equipment I could let you rent from me for grayscale and HD patterning.

As long as you are not in a competing area to my home area.


Mr Bob

Hehe, I think you took my post a little too literally. I had no intention of doing this as a business per say, I know I said getting into the business, which was a poor choice of words, more like trying to learn the craft for my own experience, but would like to learn how to get halfway decent results with my own CRT HD TV.

I've only done minor changes (a couple of service menu changes and just tweaking the usual settings) to get my picture right now. I have HD DVD of DVE on order (4/24!!) so hopefully should see some more improvement on that.

What I would really like to know is how to do the maintenance part of everything. Flying you out from California and having you do a home visit, while I would love to, and wish I could, is just out of the question for my budget. I would gladly pay the price (I would fully expect a calibration, well, professional calibration to cost 300-500), but I just don't make nearly enough money to cover that.

I just don't want to be disappointed a year later when all I have to do is clean the optics or change them. I try to keep my TV is the best working condition possible. Loving the RP CRT though. Even though it's kind of bulky and not practical for my living conditions right now, I wouldn't change it for any other display.

Thanks again,

Sam

Hehe, I think you took my post a little too literally. I had no intention of doing this as a business per say, I know I said getting into the business, which was a poor choice of words, more like trying to learn the craft for my own experience, but would like to learn how to get halfway decent results with my own CRT HD TV.

I've only done minor changes (a couple of service menu changes and just tweaking the usual settings) to get my picture right now. I have HD DVD of DVE on order (4/24!!) so hopefully should see some more improvement on that.

What I would really like to know is how to do the maintenance part of everything. Flying you out from California and having you do a home visit, while I would love to, and wish I could, is just out of the question for my budget. I would gladly pay the price (I would fully expect a calibration, well, professional calibration to cost 300-500), but I just don't make nearly enough money to cover that.

I just don't want to be disappointed a year later when all I have to do is clean the optics or change them. I try to keep my TV is the best working condition possible. Loving the RP CRT though. Even though it's kind of bulky and not practical for my living conditions right now, I wouldn't change it for any other display.

Thanks again,

Sam


Let me know how I can help. You won't really need optics cleaning at all for the first year of its life, nor too badly in the second year, tho cleaning it at the end of the first year would be a good idea.

Other than that, under the circs I recommend consultation with me over the phone. It's not expensive, not nearly as much as a cal would be, with or without flying me in. It's actually rather cheap, compared to what you will learn and the depth of experience you will be exposed to.

How long would it take you to look up and search and find all the data you are streaming into yourself at the present time in your classes, disregarding all the chaff along the way, which is NOT relevant? Have you any idea of the incredible amount of work you DON'T have to do, because of those classes, which have already separated the wheat from the chaff for you???


Mr Bob
BS in Psych, U of O

Let me know how I can help. You won't really need optics cleaning at all for the first year of its life, nor too badly in the second year, tho cleaning it at the end of the first year would be a good idea.

Other than that, under the circs I recommend consultation with me over the phone. It's not expensive, not nearly as much as a cal would be, with or without flying me in. It's actually rather cheap, compared to what you will learn and the depth of experience you will be exposed to.

How long would it take you to look up and search and find all the data you are streaming into yourself at the present time in your classes, disregarding all the chaff along the way, which is NOT relevant? Have you any idea of the incredible amount of work you DON'T have to do, because of those classes, which have already separated the wheat from the chaff for you???


Mr Bob
BS in Psych, U of O

Thanks again :)

Didn't know I could do a phone consult, which I would love to do when the time is ready. I don't know your pricing, but i'm basing it off some quotes from a few local ISF calibrators here.

It's good to know that I can get someone as passionate about the technology as you are to help me with the optics stuff when the time is ready, even when you live far away! I'd be more than happy to pay after next year (or maybe later this year, just depends).

Thanks again,

Sam

Thanks again :)

Didn't know I could do a phone consult, which I would love to do when the time is ready. I don't know your pricing, but i'm basing it off some quotes from a few local ISF calibrators here.

It's good to know that I can get someone as passionate about the technology as you are to help me with the optics stuff when the time is ready, even when you live far away! I'd be more than happy to pay after next year (or maybe later this year, just depends).

Thanks again,

Sam

Contact me directly and I'll get you the proper info. Please use my regular email address, rather than pm.


Thanks -


Mr Bob

In the near future I am going to by a screen jig(sorry mr. bob)and adjust conv/geo.If I read everything correctly I need to first put my trim pots back in factory range ,because before I was educated by you guys I did a quickie eyeball adjust, and then with the jig do conv/geo adjust in DCAM for the best results. Am I correct?

In the near future I am going to by a screen jig(sorry mr. bob)and adjust conv/geo.If I read everything correctly I need to first put my trim pots back in factory range ,because before I was educated by you guys I did a quickie eyeball adjust, and then with the jig do conv/geo adjust in DCAM for the best results. Am I correct?


Your trimpots are best left where they will do the most good for whatever overscan reduction you are trying for, trimming the points as needed.

To put the trimpots back to factory and then insist on the points doing all the o'scan reduct work, will overstress them.


Don't go in too far on those trimpots or you won't be able to use your MF.


Mr Bob

Your trimpots are best left where they will do the most good for whatever overscan reduction you are trying for, trimming the points as needed.

To put the trimpots back to factory and then insist on the points doing all the o'scan reduct work, will overstress them.


Don't go in too far on those trimpots or you won't be able to use your MF.


Mr Bob
does the jig give me oscan % or what is the best way to figure that out?does the jig just figure dead center and nothing else which I can do with string anyways?

In the near future I am going to by a screen jig(sorry mr. bob)and adjust conv/geo.If I read everything correctly I need to first put my trim pots back in factory range ,because before I was educated by you guys I did a quickie eyeball adjust, and then with the jig do conv/geo adjust in DCAM for the best results. Am I correct?

does the jig give me oscan % or what is the best way to figure that out?does the jig just figure dead center and nothing else which I can do with string anyways?

The F59 screen jig will be a representation of your set's internal DCAM grid at roughly 5-5.5% overscan l/r and 3.5-4% top/bottom.

To determine your set's overscan amount, you'd need some sort of on-screen pattern that measures it. I always use the one on the AVIA DVD.


First off, you can get the F59 jigs for "free" (except for printing costs) back on post #6 of this thread. Downloadable .pdfs of all 3 sizes' screen jigs that can be dumped to a CD and taken to any printshop that has an AutoCAD machine. Might want to call around your area to see if any can print AutoCAD to transparent mylar. Kinkos made one for my 51F59A for around 18 bucks on vellum paper, which is translucent enough to work--although mylar would have been better.

Nowadays, however, that jig is useless to me. Using the service manual instructions (or the "translation" of those instructions on post #19 here) and the jig for getting factory spec overscan/voltage amounts was, for me, a good start point to then bring in overscan to a more preferable amount and fix geometry/conv errors such work causes--esp. if you "eyeballed" it already like I had. My first attempt @ oscan reduction led to disasterous results that convinced me to get a screen jig. After living with it a bit, I found the Hitachi "factory spec" of 5-5.5% oscan l/r a little much. And the fact that the factory top/bottom oscan is around 4% makes for not entirely "round" circles and whatnot.

But the jig procedure did help me to get everything nice and straight, geo.-wise, so that I had a "clean slate" to work with once I got oscan back to 4% all-around. I used several references to correct geo/conv, mostly using ext video sources (AVIA, various DVDs I'm familiar with, several DVR'ed HDTV sources, cable guide/menus). Now, the DCAM grid, while straight and even, is smaller than the one on the jig.

You might be happy with the results using the screen jig gets you. If nothing else, it'll help you get solid geometry. Just keep in mind that if you decide to reduce your set's oscan amount, it will become useless. That's the main reason I suggest using the downloadable version (which is identical to the "factory" version) to get one made for far less that what the real thing can cost you. Esp. if it becomes "useless" for you down the road.

To determine your set's overscan amount, you'd need some sort of on-screen pattern that measures it. I always use the one on the AVIA DVD.






You can always use math as well, to figure out exactly where the edges should be: in an EXACT 16x9 ratio, even tho the actual h &w measurements of 4% o'scan will be different from those of 5.5% o'scan. The RATIO will remain the same, and can be extrapolated out for each exact size, in terms of exactly the height and width you need for each size. I always try to get 3/4" overscan at top and bottom, and 1" at sides, for TRUE HD on a 65" (no upconverted slop, nor 2.35:1 movies being shown faithfully as well as possible in HD, which is with t/b black bars).

You can adjust the total from there for smaller sizes. Again, doing the math if necessary.

Of course your screenframe does that for you quite a bit already, as it is already EXACTLY 16x9. So if you know how to use your incoming true HD picture to set your HD overscan via your screenframe edges, you're halfway there.

Since DVD is 540p - exactly half of 1080i, an exact multiple - you can then use your HD o'scan instead of your DVD's 540p version of AVIA's o'scan grid and be able to trust it, as far as sizing goes.

As far as positioning goes, tho, your DVD image might wind up just a little off from where your HD image lies. AVIA's grids can help you there.


Mr Bob

Thanks guys. I just went around town to find a printing store for the jig and nobody prints that size so far so I might do it without the jig.

Thanks guys. I just went around town to find a printing store for the jig and nobody prints that size so far so I might do it without the jig.

Can certainly be done w/o it, but don't you have a FedEx/Kinkos near you? They will have at least one AutoCAD machine that can and will print in those sizes.

Can certainly be done w/o it, but don't you have a FedEx/Kinkos near you? They will have at least one AutoCAD machine that can and will print in those sizes.
I went up there today and they said they did not and they didn't even have the paper.

I went up there today and they said they did not and they didn't even have the paper.

Not a single AutoCAD machine in all of Cleveland? :confused:

I do know that my local Kinkos had stated that their large roll of vellum paper for AutoCAD was the last they might get (guess there's no plans of ordering more).

Of course, you can do this without a jig as well. Can be trickier though. But certainly not impossible. Just ask Mr Bob. He does post-overscan geo/conv. fixes all the time w/o a screen jig.

Not a single AutoCAD machine in all of Cleveland? :confused:

I do know that my local Kinkos had stated that their large roll of vellum paper for AutoCAD was the last they might get (guess there's no plans of ordering more).

Of course, you can do this without a jig as well. Can be trickier though. But certainly not impossible. Just ask Mr Bob. He does post-overscan geo/conv. fixes all the time w/o a screen jig.
I didn't venture very far nor any phone calls I'll go on a bigger hunt when I have more time.

ok, I have a question, I had a problem with my red in the tv, on the 117 point convergence it showed a lot of the red bleeding out, so i called in and they came out and replaced the red tube in it, now it is doing it again and all my colors look dull, what should i do about this, do i need to call the people and have them come out again?

Will the picture quality delta be that much between the 57F59 and 65F59? I would assume that the smaller projected area of the 57" would make better use of the same size CRT guns. Is that correct, or are the differences negligible?

As well, I've read that the color decoder in the F59 series isn't adjustable like the old F715's is that correct? And one more question for you guys running 360's with games and HD-DVD: what is generally regarded as the best output resolution with these TV's- 720p or 1080i?

Thanks

Will the picture quality delta be that much between the 57F59 and 65F59? I would assume that the smaller projected area of the 57" would make better use of the same size CRT guns. Is that correct, or are the differences negligible?

As well, I've read that the color decoder in the F59 series isn't adjustable like the old F715's is that correct? And one more question for you guys running 360's with games and HD-DVD: what is generally regarded as the best output resolution with these TV's- 720p or 1080i?

Thanks
I have my 360 set at 1080i just because it is the tv's native resolution and there is one less conversion the tv has to make(if I remember correctly). Just make sure you set the switch on the component video dongle on the back of the 360 to HDTV and in the menu you set it to widescreen and 1080i. Games and HDDVD look phenomenal. Zero lag also.

Hey guys...I just checked out this thread for the first time because someone posted in the "Don't Dump Your CRT" thread that Bob started that Best Buy has Hitachi 51F59s on sale right now. The BB site says $629.99 for this set!

I am a big fan of CRT RPTVs, and I am still "limping along" with my Toshiba TW40H80. That set is destined for my master bedroom when I finally get my new set. I am seriously looking at the Sony SXRD XBRs, but I really want to wait until the XBR3s come out this fall before I take the plunge.

So I was thinking that this little Hitachi would make a great "stop gap" set for me until then. It would get me into HD right now, giving me 11 more inches diagonally as well. I am sure even this winter I would still be able to sell it for a few hundred bucks. And if I need to wait awhile for the prices on the XBR3s to come down, I will at least be in the HD world.

What does everyone think? Is that a good price? How dow you like this set?

Thanks!
Troy

Hey guys...I just checked out this thread for the first time because someone posted in the "Don't Dump Your CRT" thread that Bob started that Best Buy has Hitachi 51F59s on sale right now. The BB site says $629.99 for this set!

I am a big fan of CRT RPTVs, and I am still "limping along" with my Toshiba TW40H80. That set is destined for my master bedroom when I finally get my new set. I am seriously looking at the Sony SXRD XBRs, but I really want to wait until the XBR3s come out this fall before I take the plunge.

So I was thinking that this little Hitachi would make a great "stop gap" set for me until then. It would get me into HD right now, giving me 11 more inches diagonally as well. I am sure even this winter I would still be able to sell it for a few hundred bucks. And if I need to wait awhile for the prices on the XBR3s to come down, I will at least be in the HD world.

What does everyone think? Is that a good price? How dow you like this set?

Thanks!
Troy

This is an excellent set and an absolute steal for that price.

GET ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!! And when you do, come back to this thread and start at page 1 to get all the info you need to bring out the best in these TVs. They do require a little tweaking OOB, but once done, you'll be smiling.

Or at this price, it can be a lot easier for one to consider a pro calibration for it. Figure 650-700 bucks for TV, 400-500 for cal......that's $1050-$1200 total. ANd you'd end up with a 51" HDTV that will smoke anything in that price range and rival (and possibly also smoke) comparably sized sets @ 2 to 3 times the $$ for the TV alone. If that route is taken, you could possibly find yourself forgetting about the SXRD (or anything else) for quite some time--once you see the PQ of a cal'ed F59 with your own eyes.

Check this and the Hitachi 57F59A thread for posts from BFJ 96. He has the previous model to the F59 that has the same basic internals/chassis/CRTs/lenses that was pro cal'ed. He's posted several screenshots that look truly impressive. Same can be done to an F59.

So yeah, I think it's a good choice. :D

I found a blueprint store that is printing the jig as I type. Looks like I will have a pretty busy afternoon.Wish me luck.

I found a blueprint store that is printing the jig as I type. Looks like I will have a pretty busy afternoon.Wish me luck.

Are they doing it on vellum or mylar?

Are they doing it on vellum or mylar?
Vellum.

I don't have any cal. dvd's to adjust oscan so cant I just put the jig on the screen go into 117pnt or DCAM and adjust the pots to match the jig?

I just got the phone call so i am going to pick up the jig.

Just keep in mind that while using the jig can help you get your geometry solid, you will be looking at around 5-5.5% overscan l/r. This will likely cut off some on screen info (although it might only be parts of some HD network logo "bugs").

Overscan seems to be a bigger issue with gamers. Apparently some HUDs and other stuff can and does get cutoff around the edges on some 360/PS3 HD games.

I went thru the steps I posted back at the early part of this thread for resetting overscan and geometry/conv back to factory spec with the screen jig (post #19). Did so after a first failed attempt at o'scan reduction. This involved the clearing of ROM conv memory (detailed in the aforementioned post). This can seem a bit scary, but with the jig onscreen, it's fairly easy to line green up to it. After that, you can remove the jig and line red/blue to green.

Later I went back and reduced o'scan to a solid 4% all around and corrected the geo/conv errors by sight, using ext video sources--AVIA, several DVDs and DVR'ed HD shows--for reference. Now I notice that, when checking with the H POSITION service menu function, HD programming and DVD is losing very little to almost nothing l/r. Top/bottom seems to be losing even less if nothing at all. No onscreen info (ID bugs, news ticker scrolls) is cut off anywhere now. But since I'm not a gamer, I couldn't tell you if some video info loss would still occur. When my brother-in-laws' PS3 was hu'd to my set one afternoon, I only used it to play back a BluRay movie (XMEN3, which looked great, BYW....but not really much better than my std version upscaled by either the F59 or the Sony DVD player I own).

ANother plus to o'scan reduction, besides getting more info on screen, is that when the image is "squeezed" esentially to fill more of the screen area, you are basically packing more pixels onto that screen area. The result is a slightly higher-res image. Not a drastic jump forward, mind you. And if you're happy with what the factory spec o'scan result gets you...well...if it ain't broke (to your eyes), then don't fix it.

Good luck.

Just keep in mind that while using the jig can help you get your geometry solid, you will be looking at around 5-5.5% overscan l/r. This will likely cut off some on screen info (although it might only be parts of some HD network logo "bugs").

Overscan seems to be a bigger issue with gamers. Apparently some HUDs and other stuff can and does get cutoff around the edges on some 360/PS3 HD games.

I went thru the steps I posted back at the early part of this thread for resetting overscan and geometry/conv back to factory spec with the screen jig (post #19). Did so after a first failed attempt at o'scan reduction. This involved the clearing of ROM conv memory (detailed in the aforementioned post). This can seem a bit scary, but with the jig onscreen, it's fairly easy to line green up to it. After that, you can remove the jig and line red/blue to green.

Later I went back and reduced o'scan to a solid 4% all around and corrected the geo/conv errors by sight, using ext video sources--AVIA, several DVDs and DVR'ed HD shows--for reference. Now I notice that, when checking with the H POSITION service menu function, HD programming and DVD is losing very little to almost nothing l/r. Top/bottom seems to be losing even less if nothing at all. No onscreen info (ID bugs, news ticker scrolls) is cut off anywhere now. But since I'm not a gamer, I couldn't tell you if some video info loss would still occur. When my brother-in-laws' PS3 was hu'd to my set one afternoon, I only used it to play back a BluRay movie (XMEN3, which looked great, BYW....but not really much better than my std version upscaled by either the F59 or the Sony DVD player I own).

ANother plus to o'scan reduction, besides getting more info on screen, is that when the image is "squeezed" esentially to fill more of the screen area, you are basically packing more pixels onto that screen area. The result is a slightly higher-res image. Not a drastic jump forward, mind you. And if you're happy with what the factory spec o'scan result gets you...well...if it ain't broke (to your eyes), then don't fix it.

Good luck.
Thanks man. I just got the jig so I am going to start now.

I have read about half of this post now and I think by reading what others have done, I can get a much better picture out of my 51" Hit.

What I'd like to know is if I have everything I need to do, and in the correct order:

1 - Optical Focus

2 - Lens Striping

3 - DCAM Convergence

Is there anything else I, as a user, can and should do to get the best possible picture out of this TV? And if there is more, what order should everything be done in?

I have read about half of this post now and I think by reading what others have done, I can get a much better picture out of my 51" Hit.

What I'd like to know is if I have everything I need to do, and in the correct order:

1 - Optical Focus

2 - Lens Striping

3 - DCAM Convergence

Is there anything else I, as a user, can and should do to get the best possible picture out of this TV? And if there is more, what order should everything be done in?

Pretty much what you have here is good, solid DIY stuff. Did you download the DIY Guide Lee Bailey posted back on the fisrt page or two of this thread? Highly recommend you get that. Also suggest getting the service manual. Can sometimes sound like Greek to the uninitiated, but still useful to have.

I myself have not felt the need to do the lens striping. While I can see the blue or red tint to the screen when viewing from extreme left/right sides, it's actually very even from dead on center. And the seating in my living room is such that no one has to sit at such an extreme side angle for this to be a problem. So lens striping is, IMHO, the "optional" choice of the 3 things you listed.

Another common mod/tweak is to line the inside of the set's optical cavity (the big space behind the screen) with duvetyne (a black material that not reflective--theater curtains are made from it) or black felt. This helps to reduce the internal reflections that can cause "halos" around bright objects against dark/black backgrounds. This has also been documented here as well as the keohi HDTV site (whrere several calibrators, incl Mr Bob, have posted various tips and tricks of the trade). An even simpler way to deal with int. reflections is to take a thick, black Magic Marker to all the reflective metal parts that surround the lens assemblies inside you F59. Just don't take the marker to the lenses themselves! :p

Finally, another popular mod is a lens hood. One owner here has documented his lens hood job, along with photos. I'd do a search on this thread for lens hood and see what comes up. The hood can keep external and reflected light from shining into the lenses. This also can help to diminish/eliminate int reflection problems.

I've yet to do either of this mods myself, but have at least considered the Magic Marker job (actually recommended to me by Mr Bob). Int reflections, while I have noticed them a tad once in a while, are not a major issue for my set. And believe me, my eyes notice imperfections whenever they pop up.

So, for now I would say do the lens focus (Bob has always said that, in his 20+ yrs of experience, that 2 out of 3 CRT RPTV lenses being out of focus OOB is pretty common) and a full DCAM convergence. If your set is fairly new (has less than 100 hrs or so of use), you can expect the conv to drift a bit during the set's "youth". This drift generally settles down after about 100 hrs or so "settling in" time. Since my last major DCAM job (post-overscan reduction about a month ago), my convergence has been solid. No need to touch up anything.

And, if interested, here's everything that I have done with my F59:

Focus (mechanical and electrostatic)
Overscan reduction (down to 4% all around)
DCAM adjustments (for conv and geometry)

Feel free to post any questions on this thread. They should get answered in a fairly timely fashion.

We'd also like to see pics of your results, if you find the time!

Enjoy and happy tweaking!

I just got done with the DCAM adjust so far so good but my magic focus button does not work and I wrote to ROM an reinitialized magic focus. What did I do wrong?

Hey guys. I'm needing some display settings to use with my 360 what do you guys reccomend. Also what are some good settings for hdmi. Also what are good settings for the sound.

Pretty much what you have here is good, solid DIY stuff. Did you download the DIY Guide Lee Bailey posted back on the fisrt page or two of this thread? Highly recommend you get that. Also suggest getting the service manual. Can sometimes sound like Greek to the uninitiated, but still useful to have.

I myself have not felt the need to do the lens striping. While I can see the blue or red tint to the screen when viewing from extreme left/right sides, it's actually very even from dead on center. And the seating in my living room is such that no one has to sit at such an extreme side angle for this to be a problem. So lens striping is, IMHO, the "optional" choice of the 3 things you listed.

Another common mod/tweak is to line the inside of the set's optical cavity (the big space behind the screen) with duvetyne (a black material that not reflective--theater curtains are made from it) or black felt. This helps to reduce the internal reflections that can cause "halos" around bright objects against dark/black backgrounds. This has also been documented here as well as the keohi HDTV site (whrere several calibrators, incl Mr Bob, have posted various tips and tricks of the trade). An even simpler way to deal with int. reflections is to take a thick, black Magic Marker to all the reflective metal parts that surround the lens assemblies inside you F59. Just don't take the marker to the lenses themselves! :p

Finally, another popular mod is a lens hood. One owner here has documented his lens hood job, along with photos. I'd do a search on this thread for lens hood and see what comes up. The hood can keep external and reflected light from shining into the lenses. This also can help to diminish/eliminate int reflection problems.

I've yet to do either of this mods myself, but have at least considered the Magic Marker job (actually recommended to me by Mr Bob). Int reflections, while I have noticed them a tad once in a while, are not a major issue for my set. And believe me, my eyes notice imperfections whenever they pop up.

So, for now I would say do the lens focus (Bob has always said that, in his 20+ yrs of experience, that 2 out of 3 CRT RPTV lenses being out of focus OOB is pretty common) and a full DCAM convergence. If your set is fairly new (has less than 100 hrs or so of use), you can expect the conv to drift a bit during the set's "youth". This drift generally settles down after about 100 hrs or so "settling in" time. Since my last major DCAM job (post-overscan reduction about a month ago), my convergence has been solid. No need to touch up anything.

And, if interested, here's everything that I have done with my F59:

Focus (mechanical and electrostatic)
Overscan reduction (down to 4% all around)
DCAM adjustments (for conv and geometry)

Feel free to post any questions on this thread. They should get answered in a fairly timely fashion.

We'd also like to see pics of your results, if you find the time!

Enjoy and happy tweaking!

Wow. Very informative and helpful JWebb. I've seen your posts and Mr. Bob's (I don't mean to exclude anyone else) throughout this thread and have learned a lot. I'm sure everyone here appreciates all the "trick or tweaks" (Sorry for the pun) that have been posted.

To answer your question I have briefly looked through the guide. I will study it more carefully when it's time for me to actually do everything. I've just noticed that when I go to the in-laws house who have an LCD screen, their set looks much sharper than my Hitachi. I'm hoping to get it close, or surpass what I see there.

I'll definately post some pics and any advice that I think may be relevant after I do all of this. Thanks again for the knowledge!!

I just got done with the DCAM adjust so far so good but my magic focus button does not work and I wrote to ROM an reinitialized magic focus. What did I do wrong?

What happens when you push it? Nothing? Do you get 9 white crosshairs on screen (a sure sign that MF wasn't reinitialized)?

Personally I never use the auto MF. Wouldn't mind myself if Auto MF did not work. Just not the precision conv adj that a manual DCAM job gets you. Auto MF only deals with 9 points on the screen.

Not entirely sure why this happened to you. Did you center the green DCAM grid to the jig using the "raster" step (and center red/blue raster to the centered green)? If your DCAM grid is not centered, it could be missing the MF screen sensors, which would prevent MF reinitialization.

Then again, if that happened, you'd have got an error msg on screen before the MF initialize finished.

Does it not function via remote or from the front chassis button (or either)?

Wow. Very informative and helpful JWebb. I've seen your posts and Mr. Bob's (I don't mean to exclude anyone else) throughout this thread and have learned a lot. I'm sure everyone here appreciates all the "trick or tweaks" (Sorry for the pun) that have been posted.

To answer your question I have briefly looked through the guide. I will study it more carefully when it's time for me to actually do everything. I've just noticed that when I go to the in-laws house who have an LCD screen, their set looks much sharper than my Hitachi. I'm hoping to get it close, or surpass what I see there.

I'll definately post some pics and any advice that I think may be relevant after I do all of this. Thanks again for the knowledge!!

My brother in law has a nice Sony Bravia LCD. His set actually looks too sharp sometimes, now matter what you set the controls too. I can, however, crank my sharpness up to essentially match it, but why would I? :p

Likely some focus adjustment will improve this. Wiling to bet that your F59 can and will equal, if not surpass, that LCD screen with a little tweaking.

What happens when you push it? Nothing? Do you get 9 white crosshairs on screen (a sure sign that MF wasn't reinitialized)?

Personally I never use the auto MF. Wouldn't mind myself if Auto MF did not work. Just not the precision conv adj that a manual DCAM job gets you. Auto MF only deals with 9 points on the screen.

Not entirely sure why this happened to you. Did you center the green DCAM grid to the jig using the "raster" step (and center red/blue raster to the centered green)? If your DCAM grid is not centered, it could be missing the MF screen sensors, which would prevent MF reinitialization.

Then again, if that happened, you'd have got an error msg on screen before the MF initialize finished.

Does it not function via remote or from the front chassis button (or either)?
I forgot about on the remote I just tried it and it worked but my button on the tv still does not work wich I acually prefer if it doesn't cause any problems. No error message.

When I did the DCAM adjust I moved my pots for o'scan and then I moved green to match the grid. When I moved green it seemed like a lot. That won't hurt anything will it?

Also when I do the service menu changes why do they revert back as soon as I am done putting them in and leaving the service menu.

Also when I do the service menu changes why do they revert back as soon as I am done putting them in and leaving the service menu.
After you change each setting hit ENTER after each change.

There is no enter on remote

I just used select and that worked.

Likely some focus adjustment will improve this. Wiling to bet that your F59 can and will equal, if not surpass, that LCD screen with a little tweaking.

That's what I keep hearing thoughout this thread. I'm hoping it will live up to the hype. I just need to get an AVIA disk now.

Getting 51F59 for $613 from hhgregg...details here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10278717&&#post10278717) .

Regards,
Troy

When I did the DCAM adjust I moved my pots for o'scan and then I moved green to match the grid. When I moved green it seemed like a lot. That won't hurt anything will it?

Moved the green a lot how? Had you done an o'scan reduction before this?

Basically, it's like this. If you never messed with o'scan (H/V size pots) before, then the voltage should be within factory limits. If you had, you would want to do the procedure described in post #19 involving checking the H/V size and getting it set to factory spec with the H/V pots. If the pots had been adjusted out of range (changing the actual size of the internal DCAM grid) and you then realigned the grid to the jig specs, you could be causing your set's conv ICs to be overworked. This could shorten their lifespan. By how much? Don't know. Then again, if any internal part is gonna likely fail at some point on a CRT RPTV it's a conv IC or two. Easily fixed.

At the same time, the H/V pots do quite a bit of grid moving in a short span, so it's not like the H/V voltage is that much more/less when adjusting the pots beyond their factory settings.

Did you do the H/V size procedure first? And did you clear ROM memory and realign stuff from an "uncorrected" DCAM grid? Not that this is good or bad. Just wondering and would likely help me and/or others get you a more solid answer.