I forgot about on the remote I just tried it and it worked but my button on the tv still does not work wich I acually prefer if it doesn't cause any problems. No error message.

Go into the USER menu on the TV, select the SETUP MENU, then the MAGIC FOCUS TUNEUP menu. Check what mode you have set for. If it is not set to AUTO, the front panel button is disabled. This is mentioned in the User manual.

Now that I think of it when I fist got the tv I "eyeballed" the pots for o'scan and after I did that I hit magic focus(before I was educated by this forum)and I seemed like it brought the o'scan back.So I think I screwed up the pots. So with that being said wouldn't my pots not be able to adjust as far one way? I thought the pots were the only way to adjust o'scan?Using a cal.dvd wouldn't you bring the pots in/out and then adjust DCAM?If that is right I think I want to use a cal. dvd pattern to redo it.
QUOTE
Did you do the H/V size procedure first?
no.

QUOTE
And did you clear ROM memory and realign stuff from an "uncorrected" DCAM grid?
I think so but maybe not.

Now that I think of it when I fist got the tv I "eyeballed" the pots for o'scan and after I did that I hit magic focus(before I was educated by this forum)and I seemed like it brought the o'scan back.So I think I screwed up the pots. So with that being said wouldn't my pots not be able to adjust as far one way? I thought the pots were the only way to adjust o'scan?Using a cal.dvd wouldn't you bring the pots in/out and then adjust DCAM?If that is right I think I want to use a cal. dvd pattern to redo it.

Did you do the H/V size procedure first?
no.
And did you clear ROM memory and realign stuff from an "uncorrected" DCAM grid?
I think so but maybe not.

Although the stress in the conv ICs may not be so great that they will fail sooner than they should, returning DCAM grid to "jig" size while leaving the H/V size pots in their non-std (smaller) setting is working the ICs harder than they should be. I'd say that if you want to start with a "clean slate" geometry-wise, do the H/V size procedure that is mentioned in the first part of the old post I referenced to you. Will require a tape measure that reads metric (mm) to get the sizes for H and V correct.

From this point you could either redo the DCAM grid to the jig or take it a step further and clear DCAM ROM memory and re-align from an uncorrected state.

You'd know if you had done the ROM wipe since your DCAM gridlines would have gone completely out of whack. It's only in this state that you can access DCAM adjustments in 3x3 increments (to straighten out the uncorrected curved lines-press INFO-the "green" button--5 times). You will have to do raster centering first for all three colors, then adj green only 3x3, 7x5, etc..to the jig. Then remove jig and repeat all alignment steps for red/blue. All of this is documented in the referenced post and all DCAM info is in the DIY guide.

Of course, as you know, this will put you back to factory overscan. If you wish to reduce from here, you will have to redo geo/conv--but the DCAM grid will not be the same size and will be useless. It is possible to "eyeball" geometry fixes post-o'scan reduction. Can take several attempts though.

Or hire a pro calibrator :D !

Good luck!

CC material displays wherever it is programmed/told to do so. Sometimes CC's appear at the top of the screen if there is other text on-screen.

There's no CC positioning function in the F59. You are at the mercy of the broadcast source.

I was afraid of that,
Thanks for the info.

Just buy Glass Plus and be done with it. It's commonly available, doesn't have ammonia in it, and works superbly well, both on mirror and lenses.

Just be sure to allow around 5 complete passes, before your mirror will start to look like it's "so clean it seems to disappear..."


Mr Bob

You would think it would be easy to buy Glass Plus, LOL. Went to 5 stores and no one had it. What about just plain water? I was thinking maybe it wouldn't get them as clean as GP, but would it hurt?

You would think it would be easy to buy Glass Plus, LOL. Went to 5 stores and no one had it. What about just plain water? I was thinking maybe it wouldn't get them as clean as GP, but would it hurt?

I'd think water would be bad because of the potential for mineral/hard water deposits to get left behind or potentially leave minisule scratches.

Do you have a Costco near you? They sell Sprayway foam glass cleaner (Mr Bob has mentioned this one as a fave) in 4-can packs. Bound to be some Sprayway or Glass Plus at a Home Depot/Lowes-type store.

Do you have a Costco near you? They sell Sprayway foam glass cleaner (Mr Bob has mentioned this one as a fave) in 4-can packs. Bound to be some Sprayway or Glass Plus at a Home Depot/Lowes-type store.

I'll second the vote for Sprayway. On Bob's rec, I bought some and LOVED it. I ended up buying a case of the stuff online because not only is perfect for lenses, glass, etc, I also found out online that it cleans Stainless Steel like a champ! Our whole kitchen in SS Appliances, and they are a bear to keep clean and finger print free. My wife uses nothing but Sprayway on them now and loves it.

If you want the online vendor I bought the case from, I will dig up the info. It was pretty cheap, but it took awhile for the ground shipping (which was fine for me).

Regards,
Troy

In one of the first posts, there is a link to ServiceManuals.net. It costs $16 for a download of the SM for my new 51F59A. I NEVER mind paying for things, including information. As proof of this, I paid for AVS Gold Member status before I even made my first post (but I had been lurking for a few months).

So with all of that said, why do we all pay for our SMs? Is ServiceManuals.net a contributor to AVS Forum in anyway? Do they have to pay ANYTHING for what they are re-selling to us (the SMs in electronic format)?

If the answer to both questions is no, why don't we just share our downloaded copy with each other here for free? The SMs have a copyright from Hitachi (if anyone), not Service Manuals Dot Net. So I would like to here some opinions on this before I buy my SM from them.

Regards,
Troy

I'm having an issue with my set. When I watch dvds and the virtual HD is set to 1080i, I see a faint vertical line go down the screen. It usually only occurs when the camera pans in a horizontal direction. It is fine when I have it set to 540p.

This also occurs when I play video games. However it doesn't matter what the setting is on. I get the vertical line on video games no matter what.

What could be causing this?

I'm having an issue with my set. When I watch dvds and the virtual HD is set to 1080i, I see a faint vertical line go down the screen. It usually only occurs when the camera pans in a horizontal direction. It is fine when I have it set to 540p.

This also occurs when I play video games. However it doesn't matter what the setting is on. I get the vertical line on video games no matter what.

What could be causing this?

Which input(s) does this occur on?

Which input(s) does this occur on?

Well I have only noticed this on the component inputs.

I'd say that if you want to start with a "clean slate" geometry-wise, do the H/V size procedure that is mentioned in the first part of the old post I referenced to you. Will require a tape measure that reads metric (mm) to get the sizes for H and V correct.

Or you can just do the math. For an F57, horizontal is 47 +/- .2 inches, vertical is 24.6 +/- .2 inches.
Not that our Canadian friends need to know that. :)

In one of the first posts, there is a link to ServiceManuals.net. It costs $16 for a download of the SM for my new 51F59A. I NEVER mind paying for things, including information. As proof of this, I paid for AVS Gold Member status before I even made my first post (but I had been lurking for a few months).

So with all of that said, why do we all pay for our SMs? Is ServiceManuals.net a contributor to AVS Forum in anyway? Do they have to pay ANYTHING for what they are re-selling to us (the SMs in electronic format)?

If the answer to both questions is no, why don't we just share our downloaded copy with each other here for free? The SMs have a copyright from Hitachi (if anyone), not Service Manuals Dot Net. So I would like to here some opinions on this before I buy my SM from them.
Troy
Hopefully, servicemanuals dot net pays Hitachi, the legal copywrite holder, which is why we need to pay servicemanuals. If they don't, a brief note to Hitachi's legal department would probably shut them down, which is why I think they're legit (and why I won't email you my copy - sorry). I found it worth having just for the tables of defaults, though, oddly enough, my set, OOB, had several settings that were different, so it really does pay to check.
My two cents (or $16, actually).
Michael

An ionizer placed in back of your RPTV helps also. It ionizes the particulates in the air BEFORE they have a chance to enter your set thru all the cracks, making it impossible for them to get in, as they are drawn to and stick to the sides of the unit instead.
Mr Bob
Any opinions on something like this (today's Yugster deal): http://dealnews.com/lw/artclick.html?2,163564,289140
Michael

Any opinions on something like this (today's Yugster deal): http://dealnews.com/lw/artclick.html?2,163564,289140
Michael

Thanks! I just ordered 4, for gifting as well.

Don't know how powerful this thing is, tho, and whether it will be strong enough for our purposes here.


Mr Bob

Thanks! I just ordered 4, for gifting as well.

Don't know how powerful this thing is, tho, and whether it will be strong enough for our purposes here.


Mr Bob
That's good enough for me. I got one. I figure the worst it could do is nothing, and if it keeps the insides even slightly cleaner, then it's worth $11.

Thanks to everyone posting in this thread asking questions and answering, it's been pretty informative over the few months I've been reading it, and I've joined the club as of last saturday.


Now I have a few questions:

Right now I only have my digital cable box hooked up via coax, my non progressive dvd hooked up via svid, my Wii hooked up via component, and a pair of rabbit ears hooked up on a switch with the cable box.

My bravoD1 upscaler will be hooked up DVI/Hdmi when the cable gets here.


Right now all inputs seem to have a ghosting/haze (an extra edge usually blue or yellow) and the overall image seems blurry, certainly not as good as many of the pics posted by people in here. I assume that I have a convergence and or focus issues. There is a lack of overall crispness and sharpness. I expect some visual issues with scaled stuff (wii and dvd over svideo) but the blurriness and ghostiness appears on 1080i stuff over the air as well. I have not done DCam or a 117 convergence. I also have all assists turned off and have basically followed the settings in this thread.

I also have a question about magic focus. Should all the color boxes on magic focus be rectangles or squares? Most are rectangles and squares but a few of the color boxes are odd polygon shapes.



Any ideas?

Thanks to everyone posting in this thread asking questions and answering, it's been pretty informative over the few months I've been reading it, and I've joined the club as of last saturday.


Now I have a few questions:

Right now I only have my digital cable box hooked up via coax, my non progressive dvd hooked up via svid, my Wii hooked up via component, and a pair of rabbit ears hooked up on a switch with the cable box.

My bravoD1 upscaler will be hooked up DVI/Hdmi when the cable gets here.


Right now all inputs seem to have a ghosting/haze (an extra edge usually blue or yellow) and the overall image seems blurry, certainly not as good as many of the pics posted by people in here. I assume that I have a convergence and or focus issues. There is a lack of overall crispness and sharpness. I expect some visual issues with scaled stuff (wii and dvd over svideo) but the blurriness and ghostiness appears on 1080i stuff over the air as well. I have not done DCam or a 117 convergence. I also have all assists turned off and have basically followed the settings in this thread.

I also have a question about magic focus. Should all the color boxes on magic focus be rectangles or squares? Most are rectangles and squares but a few of the color boxes are odd polygon shapes.



Any ideas?


Sounds like typical OOB perfomance. You have received the typical consumer grade Joe Sixpack rendition.

What's being talked up here is the videophile rendition of the same thing, which has a long learning curve and requires many layers of pristine work to achieve, but can happen on any CRT RPTV unit. It's like a major tune-up on several different levels, that converts your consumer grade jalopy into a superlative street machine. Right now you're simply getting what you paid for, and only that. Luckily, you're NOT stuck with that. The CRT RPTV format supports dialing it in much more fully than how it arrives at your home: off the assembly line plus some factory tweaking, to get it ready enough for performance most consumers are fine with.

You need it calibrated on location to achieve its full potential, and this happens best after it has been deboxed and set up in your viewing room, at its optimum final placement for your best viewing. Which includes optimized viewing distance, which will be much closer once dialed in, for a picture much bigger to actually watch than your unit is presently capable of.

Many on this thread are DIYers, and some hire people like me - pro calibrators - to dial it in fully, to where you can sit there and study the grain of the film they used to shoot movies on it, it's so crisp.


Mr Bob

Any opinions on something like this (today's Yugster deal): http://dealnews.com/lw/artclick.html?2,163564,289140
Michael

Looks like that is a "Daily Deal", so it has already changed to a new product (iPod case). What was it?

I have found some nice Ionizers at Bed, Bath and Beyond for $20. They plug into an outlet like a night light (it has that on it too BTW), but it does take up both outlets (does not use them both...just blocks the unused one). I put it right behind my TV based on Bob's rec.

My wife has $5 off coupons for BB&B almost constantly, so I got it for $15. I will let you know how it works, and what the model name is (I am at work now).

Regards,
Troy

Looks like that is a "Daily Deal", so it has already changed to a new product (iPod case). What was it?

I have found some nice Ionizers at Bed, Bath and Beyond for $20. They plug into an outlet like a night light (it has that on it too BTW), but it does take up both outlets (does not use them both...just blocks the unused one). I put it right behind my TV based on Bob's rec.

My wife has $5 off coupons for BB&B almost constantly, so I got it for $15. I will let you know how it works, and what the model name is (I am at work now).

Regards,
Troy


Yeah, when I ordered mine, there were only about 18 hours left to do so. S'why I hopped on it.

Small portable ionizer, with several different power sources and a necklace strap for personal use.


Mr Bob

I have found some nice Ionizers at Bed, Bath and Beyond for $20. They plug into an outlet like a night light (it has that on it too BTW), but it does take up both outlets (does not use them both...just blocks the unused one). I put it right behind my TV based on Bob's rec.
Regards,
Troy
Now if the night light were 6500K, that would be perfect! :)
Where mine goes will depend on how long the AC cord is. I'll probably just stick it on the back of the set with double-sided tape.
Of course, since Mr. Bob got 4, he'll have them around the whole perimeter. :D

Luckily, you're NOT stuck with that.

Excellent, I was mainly interested in the fact that I had no real problems, at least as far as my description could tell you.

Is image retention normal? I have noticed that when I turn my tv off or go to a different input I do see some of the most recent frame displayed. It's not burn in, it's just whatever happened to be on screen last before I turn it off or switch.


I plan to start tweaking this set as I get some more time. Just to make sure, I should tweak in this order:

1. Dcam-via outside image (dve in my case)
2. Overscan -(again based on dve)
3. Geometry
4. Focus

and then retweak after the set has been used for some time.

correct?

Excellent, I was mainly interested in the fact that I had no real problems, at least as far as my description could tell you.

Is image retention normal? I have noticed that when I turn my tv off or go to a different input I do see some of the most recent frame displayed. It's not burn in, it's just whatever happened to be on screen last before I turn it off or switch.


I plan to start tweaking this set as I get some more time. Just to make sure, I should tweak in this order:

1. Dcam-via outside image (dve in my case)
2. Overscan -(again based on dve)
3. Geometry
4. Focus

and then retweak after the set has been used for some time.

correct?


Some degree of image retention is normal. It is going to be more prevalent the higher you have your contrast set, which determines your overall light level.

The correct sequence is:

Focus
Overscan
Geometry
DCAM

Optical focusing affects that color's image size, which affects convergence.
Overscan reduction trashes geometry.
Redoing geometry on one color requires that the other colors follow suit afterwards, ie. convergence.

DCAM should be your final step, not your first.


Mr Bob

Thanks. I'm glad I double checked. I thought I saw it listed in the threads as I read to do it the way I listed. It seemed kinda out of order and that's what gave me pause. Thanks again.

Some degree of image retention is normal.

I figured as much, and my settings are lower than most of the recommended settings in here so I'm safe on that front.

edit: first paragraph is just me bitching about adjusting convergence, for actual question that I have, feel free to skip down to the lower paragraph to save time.

Hello people. I bought one of the 65" tvs to be a badass, and I just about killed that effect earlier today trying to freehand the convergence as none of the copy places I went to did mylar plotting... the first place I went to asked me what mylar was T_T. The reason I needed to do the convergence stuff was because the whole overscan thing makes it really hard to use the tv as my computer monitor (which I am doing now). I'm used to making adjustments on monitors and such through all my arcade repair-work, and I just have to say... a test-hatch screen that doesn't have same sized squares rides the short bus. I'm going to try a couple more printing places tomorrow... hopefully I'll have a little luck. The guy at kinkos told me that there was a place 20 minutes away, but he didn't know if it was still there anymore or not, and also he said they might be able to do it ~_~. Sorry if I'm just complaining, but it's a bit frustrating.

So, I guess this is my question: are the jig convergence patterns on the first page cut to screen size, or are they the same size as the cross hatch on the tv out of the box (would have edges of picture cutoff a little). Since I am using this tv as my pc monitor, having the edges cutoff by an inch or more on all sides makes it a pain to navigate, so i need to know if I will have to downsize by a few percent or not before I spend the money to have the jig made.

edit: first paragraph is just me bitching about adjusting convergence, for actual question that I have, feel free to skip down to the lower paragraph to save time.

Hello people. I bought one of the 65" tvs to be a badass, and I just about killed that effect earlier today trying to freehand the convergence as none of the copy places I went to did mylar plotting... the first place I went to asked me what mylar was T_T. The reason I needed to do the convergence stuff was because the whole overscan thing makes it really hard to use the tv as my computer monitor (which I am doing now). I'm used to making adjustments on monitors and such through all my arcade repair-work, and I just have to say... a test-hatch screen that doesn't have same sized squares rides the short bus. I'm going to try a couple more printing places tomorrow... hopefully I'll have a little luck. The guy at kinkos told me that there was a place 20 minutes away, but he didn't know if it was still there anymore or not, and also he said they might be able to do it ~_~. Sorry if I'm just complaining, but it's a bit frustrating.

So, I guess this is my question: are the jig convergence patterns on the first page cut to screen size, or are they the same size as the cross hatch on the tv out of the box (would have edges of picture cutoff a little). Since I am using this tv as my pc monitor, having the edges cutoff by an inch or more on all sides makes it a pain to navigate, so i need to know if I will have to downsize by a few percent or not before I spend the money to have the jig made.

Invest your money instead in AVIA, and use its Enhanced Widescreen Circlehatch Grid pattern instead. Use its Overscan pattern to get it between 4-4.5% - will maintain the use of your Magic Focus - and use the Circlehatch grid for redoing it once it has been hosed by being o-reduced.

Takes some doing, but I do it all the time, it's a piece of cake once you've done it a few times. If money is a factor and you don't want to spring for the mylar, do it my way.

;)

Mr Bob

So, I guess this is my question: are the jig convergence patterns on the first page cut to screen size, or are they the same size as the cross hatch on the tv out of the box (would have edges of picture cutoff a little). Since I am using this tv as my pc monitor, having the edges cutoff by an inch or more on all sides makes it a pain to navigate, so i need to know if I will have to downsize by a few percent or not before I spend the money to have the jig made.
You DON'T want the jig. The jig is to correct geometry issues (back to factory spec). You want to adjust the overscan with the pots, not by changing the geometry.
If you had a Mac, you would go to System Preferences, click on Displays, and DE-select the box labeled "overscan." Done.
You'll have to do it the hard way. But you wanted to be a badass, after all.
Use the pots, then convergence in DCAM.
Have you tried a smaller display size? I would think that anything at 60Hz would work. But again, I have a Mac, so it was a piece of cake.
Sorry, did I mention that already? :)
I guess if all else fails, you'll have to settle for having a beautiful big TV.
Michael

My Original Post and Mr. Bob's Response:

Haven't seen any complaints of this particular issue yet, so hopefully I'm the first to bring it up.

My 65F59A (with Dish Network) has been pretty much perfect for me so far (had it about 3 months now)... changed the out of box settings, got the HDMI issue fixed... HD looks pretty much perfect (unless you're watching the NBA on TNTHD as of late, haha). Lately though, I've noticed that my screen seems to be slightly tilted left (horizontally). The best way to see this is while watching ESPNHD... the left side of the "Bottom Line" stat-bar is closer to the bottom of the screen than the right side. It is extremely minor and hard to spot, but I was just curious if anyone else had this issue and/or knew if anything could be done to fix it. Thanks.

Common geometry issue. If both the top and bottom bars are off to the same degree, and so is the vertical/sides, turning each yoke slightly will do the trick.

If ONLY the bottom line is not parallel, that's a keystone issue, and I don't think Hit's have the registers for that.

To cure that, you'd have to do an extensive dcam geometry/reconverge in that corner, on all 3 colors.

My brand new 73" Mit had that going on in the upper left corner, plus lots of inappropriate curvature, against straight top border lines. Looked really dorky at the top.

Took some point conv to get it right, just like yours will.


Mr Bob

Wow, it's been a while since I've replied to this. I think I need to make a few clarifications.

My screen is "shifted" down about a quarter inch (it's about a half inch on the right side). Like, the picture cuts off and there's a black strip at the top of the screen that goes across the whole top of the screen (again, it's 1/4" to 1/2" think, as it varies the farther right you look). Of course, this means that some of the bottom is cut off... and then, when looking at the bottom of the screen with ESPN's "BottomLine", it appears that the far left and far right sides of the bar are even a little lower than the rest of the bar.

So I guess there are really 2 problems (I honestly didn't notice that the whole screen was "shifted" down for a long time because it's pretty minor and blends in with the black frame the TV has). I would again appreciate any help... and, if the instructions that I quoted above from Mr. Bob are still required, I probably will need a little more in-depth help since I don't know what a yoke is exactly. Thanks again.

it appears that the far left and far right sides of the bar are even a little lower than the rest of the bar.




That's a sign of pincushion error.

Both of these things need to be corrected via the larger point spreads in DCAM. I would not recommend the REALLY large point spread, the 3x3, because that would wipe out all corrections currently in place. And your pic is basically fine except for these things, so don't go totally wrecking it with 3x3.

I'm sure the guys here will help you on this. I am available for private consultation if you wish. Just contact me directly. Please don't pm me, use my regular email address instead.


Mr Bob

Invest your money instead in AVIA, and use its Enhanced Widescreen Circlehatch Grid pattern instead. Use its Overscan pattern to get it between 4-4.5% - will maintain the use of your Magic Focus - and use the Circlehatch grid for redoing it once it has been hosed by being o-reduced.

Takes some doing, but I do it all the time, it's a piece of cake once you've done it a few times. If money is a factor and you don't want to spring for the mylar, do it my way.

;)

Mr Bob
Where could I find avia? I had a jig printed (scaled down to 32x56.5 inches) which made it look alright... it was still a little overscanned, and the jig cost me $63 to print ~_~. now, I just restarted my computer, and it's more overscanned than it was out of the box T_T. Honestly, my start menu popup is out of the picture entirelly... it is horrible. Since I'm moving in a couple weeks, I'm thinking I'll just hire a pro to do it for me then, but I really would like to be able to tell what I'm doing in the mean time... this overscan is bs, seriously. I spent 10+ hours adjusting the crosshatch, and now it's worse than ever... at least the geometry is fixed now ~_~

edit: I would adjust the size pots, but I really don't want to spend hours more redoing the crosshatch fixing the distortion caused by it.

edit2: do you know of a good calibration tech in the downey, ca area, and what price range am I looking at for that sort of service? since I'm using it as a monitor, it is very easy to tell if a poor job was done, so I don't want some guy to come mess around for 2 hours doing nothing really but wasting time, and then charging me $200 for making it as good as it was out of the box.

Where could I find avia? I had a jig printed (scaled down to 32x56.5 inches) which made it look alright... it was still a little overscanned, and the jig cost me $63 to print ~_~. now, I just restarted my computer, and it's more overscanned than it was out of the box T_T. Honestly, my start menu popup is out of the picture entirelly... it is horrible. Since I'm moving in a couple weeks, I'm thinking I'll just hire a pro to do it for me then, but I really would like to be able to tell what I'm doing in the mean time... this overscan is bs, seriously. I spent 10+ hours adjusting the crosshatch, and now it's worse than ever... at least the geometry is fixed now ~_~

edit: I would adjust the size pots, but I really don't want to spend hours more redoing the crosshatch fixing the distortion caused by it.

edit2: do you know of a good calibration tech in the downey, ca area, and what price range am I looking at for that sort of service? since I'm using it as a monitor, it is very easy to tell if a poor job was done, so I don't want some guy to come mess around for 2 hours doing nothing really but wasting time, and then charging me $200 for making it as good as it was out of the box.


If you are using this as a computer monitor, the rules are all different. The overscan I mentined is strictly for DVD. There's even different rules for HD, different from DVD. Just went over your last post, answered by me, and saw that you did mention using it as a PC monitor. Sorry, missed that.

If you are running HTPC, do your o'scan reduc for some fixed image first - for DVD use AVIA, for HD use a true HD image from an HD program - and get your o'scan right.

Then, leaving your set's perfectly dialed in geometry and convergence alone after that, adjust your HTPC's H and V to fit correctly, on whatever HTPC card you're using. You also have to know which scanrate your PC is hitting your set with, to know which scanrate to calibrate on it.

HTPC is always so fully variable on sizing that I would NEVER use it to calibrate overscan on a CRT RPTV. I would use only patterns that are fixed already, either at the DVDP or the HD STB.

Depending on what scanrate you're using, of course. If it's a late model unit, a very recent one, 1080i and 540p will be your only choices anyway, as they are multiples of each other, and anything that arrives in 480 is upconverted to 540p anyway. In which case I'd do the 1080i and be done with it, as the 540p would already have been covered by doing the 1080i.

The DVDP can be used for the sizing, as doing 4-4.5% on DVD gets the HD close enough. But I would do the convergence on 1080i, as it is the finer material, requiring finer convergence than 480i->540p.

Mr Bob

PS - Where exactly is Downey, CA? I have never heard of it. I am in the SF Bay area, and would love to help you out if you want to fly me in.

If you are using this as a computer monitor, the rules are all different. The overscan I mentined is strictly for DVD. There's even different rules for HD, different from DVD. Just went over your last post, answered by me, and saw that you did mention using it as a PC monitor. Sorry, missed that.

If you are running HTPC, do your o'scan reduc for some fixed image first - for DVD use AVIA, for HD use a true HD image from an HD program - and get your o'scan right.

Then, leaving your set's perfectly dialed in geometry and convergence alone after that, adjust your HTPC's H and V to fit correctly, on whatever HTPC card you're using. You also have to know which scanrate your PC is hitting your set with, to know which scanrate to calibrate on it.

HTPC is always so fully variable on sizing that I would NEVER use it to calibrate overscan on a CRT RPTV. I would use only patterns that are fixed already, either at the DVDP or the HD STB.

Depending on what scanrate you're using, of course. If it's a late model unit, a very recent one, 1080i and 540p will be your only choices anyway, as they are multiples of each other, and anything that arrives in 480 is upconverted to 540p anyway. In which case I'd do the 1080i and be done with it, as the 540p would already have been covered by doing the 1080i.

The DVDP can be used for the sizing, as doing 4-4.5% on DVD gets the HD close enough. But I would do the convergence on 1080i, as it is the finer material, requiring finer convergence than 480i->540p.

Mr Bob

PS - Where exactly is Downey, CA? I have never heard of it. I am in the SF Bay area, and would love to help you out if you want to fly me in.

Downey is in Los Angeles county. If you'd tune up my tv, I'd fly you in and give you a place to stay for a weekend... I'd even give you a lift from the airport :) That would be around mid-may though at the earliest (I'm moving in second weekend of may, and it would be kinda pointless to do the convergence perfectly, and then move it in a week). I've been using the tv at 1080i... the interlacing is a bit jiggly at times for text and borders as well.

Downey is in Los Angeles county. If you'd tune up my tv, I'd fly you in and give you a place to stay for a weekend... I'd even give you a lift from the airport :) That would be around mid-may though at the earliest (I'm moving in second weekend of may, and it would be kinda pointless to do the convergence perfectly, and then move it in a week). I've been using the tv at 1080i... the interlacing is a bit jiggly at times for text and borders as well.


Contact me directly and we'll set it up.

Too bad I didn't bring my work gear - I am in LA right now, leaving town tomorrow night to go back home. But then you're moving, so we need to wait just a little anyway -

I'll be waiting to hear from you.


Mr Bob

Can anyone confirm this shelf will work on the 51F59A? I've heard it works with the 57F59.

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=220&parent=7

Just picked up my set CC for 7 bills. So far I like it. Hopefully will be able to focus the guns etc. Will pick up the service manual.

Service manual is download only at servicemanuals.net? Is there a hard copy available anywhere?

I am using this shelf mounted on my 51F59:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-v6KAK1x95oT/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=15800&I=051TVSS&search=speaker+shelf

You want to make sure whatever you get isn't too heavy, because you don't want the plastic cabinet of the tv to flex at all under the load. I only use it to hold a lightweight DVD player, though.

[QUOTE=mingus]Can anyone confirm this shelf will work on the 51F59A? I've heard it works with the 57F59.

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=220&parent=7

Works perfectly on my 51F59 and is very stable. A few of the pre drilled holes for the brackets are out by about 1/16 inch and you have to slant the screws a bit.

[QUOTE=mingus]Can anyone confirm this shelf will work on the 51F59A? I've heard it works with the 57F59.

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=220&parent=7

Works perfectly on my 51F59 and is very stable. A few of the pre drilled holes for the brackets are out by about 1/16 inch and you have to slant the screws a bit.


I use two small pieces of semi-firm foam as seen in this pic... the front of the speaker rests on the lip of the tv. Works perfectly, zero cost, cannot see any shelf.

[QUOTE=Jim5054]


I use two small pieces of semi-firm foam as seen in this pic... the front of the speaker rests on the lip of the tv. Works perfectly, zero cost, cannot see any shelf.

Here's my DIY solution, using a few Home Depot paint stirrers and felt tape on the bottom front edge of the speaker:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8730193&&#post8730193

Hey guys - I have a quick noobish question. I've noticed that the picture definately improves the less contrast that you have it set at. Why is this and, knowing that lowering it is less taxing on the TV itself, would you recommend trying to keep brightness lower as well?

Hope that makes sense.

[edit - I just did a search and found some answers within this thread - but if anyone would like to put in their two cents about contrast settings - please do]

Hey guys - I have a quick noobish question. I've noticed that the picture definately improves the less contrast that you have it set at. Why is this and, knowing that lowering it is less taxing on the TV itself, would you recommend trying to keep brightness lower as well?

Hope that makes sense.


Keeping your contrast to midpoint between lowest and highest OOB limits has various values:


Grayscale stays linear. Blue cannot keep up with red and green at the higher light OP levels, meaning that at full contrast - highest possible light levels, ie. Torch Mode - the whites turn dingy.

Keeps focus from blooming and squinching up fine lettering

Keeps convergence from being stressed out - convergence error happens at higher light levels. And even on white lettering, while regular video material in the background stays fine.

Keeps your CRTs young.


Br is interactive with contrast - they both have to be set properly, for any given light level. When you lower overall light level - contrast - you have to raise the br to compensate.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr Bob. I currently have my contrast set at around 23 and my brightness at around 61 to 65 (depending on time of day) - I've been tweaking it here and there while watching Planet Earth on Blu Ray and am quite happy with it at these levels. Do those seem like ok numbers to you?

Thanks Mr Bob. I currently have my contrast set at around 23 and my brightness at around 61 to 65 (depending on time of day) - I've been tweaking it here and there while watching Planet Earth on Blu Ray and am quite happy with it at these levels. Do those seem like ok numbers to you?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Mr Bob
Common geometry issue. If both the top and bottom bars are off to the same degree, and so is the vertical/sides, turning each yoke slightly will do the trick.

If ONLY the bottom line is not parallel, that's a keystone issue, and I don't think Hit's have the registers for that.

To cure that, you'd have to do an extensive dcam geometry/reconverge in that corner, on all 3 colors.

My brand new 73" Mit had that going on in the upper left corner, plus lots of inappropriate curvature, against straight top border lines. Looked really dorky at the top.

Took some point conv to get it right, just like yours will.


Mr Bob


Wow, it's been a while since I've replied to this. I think I need to make a few clarifications.

My screen is "shifted" down about a quarter inch (it's about a half inch on the right side). Like, the picture cuts off and there's a black strip at the top of the screen that goes across the whole top of the screen (again, it's 1/4" to 1/2" think, as it varies the farther right you look). Of course, this means that some of the bottom is cut off... and then, when looking at the bottom of the screen with ESPN's "BottomLine", it appears that the far left and far right sides of the bar are even a little lower than the rest of the bar.

So I guess there are really 2 problems (I honestly didn't notice that the whole screen was "shifted" down for a long time because it's pretty minor and blends in with the black frame the TV has). I would again appreciate any help... and, if the instructions that I quoted above from Mr. Bob are still required, I probably will need a little more in-depth help since I don't know what a yoke is exactly. Thanks again.

I have searched and searched and I, like awillquick, can not find any detailed information regarding the "yoke". My set is exactly as you describe Mr. Bob.. with the top/bottom and vertical/sides being off. As soon as I can fix the geometry issue I will be 100% happy with my 65f59.
Right now I'm only 99.4% happy with it. ;)

ok, so I figured out how to adjust the overscan for my pc... this may help other people, so I'll say how to do it.

This will only work if you have an ati chipset card that utilizes catalyst control center for the video driver (I use a visiontek x1300 with ccc version 1.2.2217.17271). Other video cards may very well have similar programs to force resolutions, but I only know that this works for certain.

In the catalyst control center, go to the "advanced" mode. Go to the tab labeled "Displays manager", and make sure you have your tv enabled as a display. For my tv, it says "hitatchi ptv [single]" as I am only using this tv as my monitor (no secondary atm). Next, go down to "digital panel properties 3". Go to "HDTV support". Choose whichever resolution you are aiming to view (ie, 720p standard, or 1080i standard), select that resolution, and click "apply format". After your tv is outputting the standard resolution (most likely overscanned like mad), you need to select the same resolution again, and the "add" button should be active now. Click "add", and adjust the sizes until the blue edges are just out of view (or barely in view if you want a little underscanning for some strange reason). After you have that set, Click "apply" at the bottom of the window, and then you can apply the new format you have by selecting "*whichever resolution you started at *custom...", and click "apply format". That should do it.


My set is set to 912 x 638 @ 60hz (custom 720p). I also made a custom 1080i, but at 30hz interlaced, the picture from a pc is a little hard to see for things like text.

Yes.

Cheers - thanks! :)

I have searched and searched and I, like awillquick, can not find any detailed information regarding the "yoke". My set is exactly as you describe Mr. Bob.. with the top/bottom and vertical/sides being off. As soon as I can fix the geometry issue I will be 100% happy with my 65f59.
Right now I'm only 99.4% happy with it. ;)


The yoke is that gray plastic coil that mounts on the rear of the CRT. It slides up the neck till it's snug up against the back of the CRT itself, then gets tightened down. Each of the 3 CRTs has one.

It needs to be loosened up just enough to tilt it a bit, CW or CCW, then tightened down just enough so that it won't move by itself, but not real tight, as you could break the neck of your CRT by doing so.

This is an absolute requirement: it has to be done without you damaging yourself nor your set. If you do it while the set is on - even plugged in but not on - you are potentially exposing yourself to very dangerous voltages, in there. If you are not adept at such things, you have to ask yourself: "Do you feel lucky?"


If anyone wants in depth coaching on things like this - such as how to keep both yourself and your display safe, among other things - I am always available for a phone consultation on such things.


Mr Bob

After a straightforward Mechanical and Electrostatic focus and a DCAM convergence, my picture quality seems marginally improved.
Each focus adjustment was ever so slight.

I was fortunate to receive a 57f59 that provided superior pq right out of the box.

I believe it has been mentioned, but bears repeating, it is a good idea to put a small mark or dots with a magic marker to indicate the starting locations before moving anything. If you have to go back to square one, the marks will help.
I also made a diagram of the position of the Focus screws for the same reason.

Of course, the HDMI fix is working wonderful. Other Service Menu adjustments that I attempted were the COLORG (which ended up back at 00) and the SRTGA (from original 10 to 00 now)

After 8 months in a cool basement with almost zero dust, I shined a flashlight sideways across the guns ( a la Mr. Bob). The dust is there and must be cleaned.

I read, and re-read (making notes), then read again the pertinent posts for all the tweaks that I was performing. The Service Manual was a help, as was the Hitachi DIY Guide. Removing the front panel button assembly to reach inside from the front was a big help. The remote control navigations from post #359 saved the day.

Thanks ever so much to everyone for your valuable posts and generous natures!

As I mentioned, the picture quality is marginally improved and that is very rewarding. So now, enjoy for a while, then prepare for a cleaning of the guns.

Hello, I have been reasearching CRT RPTV's here for about 6 weeks, and finally purchased a 65f59 last week (this site is a tremendous resource). The picture quality was quite good OOB, but this thread was great for making the necessary tweaks to get it just right. One discrepency I had though is in regard to SRTGA.

After watching the TV for the first couple of days, I did the service menu tweaks from the DIY guide. Next day I did the DCAM convergence (and again a few days later) because I just couldn't get the picture as clear as I wanted it. I was getting very frustrated, thinking that I screwed something up. On Saturday, I 'undid' the change to SRTGA, moving it back to 10 after having moved it to 00. The difference in picture quality is (to my eyes) very clear. I would recommend to those who are struggling with tweaks, and have changed the setting on SRTGA, to at least give this a try, maybe your taste is similar to mine.

And thanks to all those who have provided the invaluable information contained within this thread and others.

stunticon--- I have done all the tweaks also and my picture looks alot sharper set on 10.

I've got my computer connected to my TV using DVI->HDMI and its working great, but the picture seems to be a bit larger than the screen, no matter what resolution the PC is set to or what aspect ratio the TV is at. Is there a way to calibrate the picture position/size?

I've got my computer connected to my TV using DVI->HDMI and its working great, but the picture seems to be a bit larger than the screen, no matter what resolution the PC is set to or what aspect ratio the TV is at. Is there a way to calibrate the picture position/size?

Need more info.
In particular, whether you have an ATI video card.. or an Nvidia video card.

I've got my computer connected to my TV using DVI->HDMI and its working great, but the picture seems to be a bit larger than the screen, no matter what resolution the PC is set to or what aspect ratio the TV is at. Is there a way to calibrate the picture position/size?


I have calibrated many HTPC-sourced installations, and in all cases the owner had complete control over his height and width via his PC's video card. In which case we always used an HD STB for the cal, so there would be no variability issues to worry about. The sizing of the PC's image was then done on the PC, not on the display.

That should negate the need to reduce overscan on your set - at least on the PC's video - if you can find those registers in there on your PC's video card, and reduce the H and W just a bit.


Mr Bob

Thanks guys. It's an ATI card. I looked around but didn't see any way to adjust the height and width. I'll take another look.

OK folks, I have read these forums for the past month, and I think I have
carpel tunnel syndrome! I was going to buy the new Samsung LED unit
or the Toshiba, but after reading all the problems, I decided to buy this
Hitachi 51f59 from Sears for $699.00, I will get one of the high dollar
1080's next year after the dust settles.

The initial video settings in the DIY service guide on page 1 recommend:

Contrast = 25% to 41%
Brightness = 45% to 63%
Color = 45% to 50%
Tint = 0 to -3
Color Temp = Std
Sharp = 25 to 50

I have read through all of the posts and see where you guys have a
lot of different recommendations. I have printed out so much info, that
I need new ink. Let me hear some of your ideas now that you have
had your TV for a while.

Also, I have Directv coming to install a HD DVR box as well. I have a
Samsung DVD player. Which one gets the HDMI cable and which gets
the Component cable? I'm sure they will tell me, but I want to know
what you think because I really don't know.....I'm getting to old for this :confused:

Thanks guys. It's an ATI card. I looked around but didn't see any way to adjust the height and width. I'll take another look.

Did you try everything posted by stuffmonger a few posts up? (Post # 794)

OK folks, I have read these forums for the past month, and I think I have
carpel tunnel syndrome! I was going to buy the new Samsung LED unit
or the Toshiba, but after reading all the problems, I decided to buy this
Hitachi 51f59 from Sears for $699.00, I will get one of the high dollar
1080's next year after the dust settles.

The initial video settings in the DIY service guide on page 1 recommend:

Contrast = 25% to 41%
Brightness = 45% to 63%
Color = 45% to 50%
Tint = 0 to -3
Color Temp = Std
Sharp = 25 to 50

I have read through all of the posts and see where you guys have a
lot of different recommendations. I have printed out so much info, that
I need new ink. Let me hear some of your ideas now that you have
had your TV for a while.

Also, I have Directv coming to install a HD DVR box as well. I have a
Samsung DVD player. Which one gets the HDMI cable and which gets
the Component cable? I'm sure they will tell me, but I want to know
what you think because I really don't know.....I'm getting to old for this :confused:

If you're happy with the way the display looks then leave it as it is now. The different recommendations are because we all have different tastes in how the display should look to us. Yours is set within the proper ranges, so go with it. :)

As for the HDMI/Component, hook them up the way you want. There won't be any visual difference between them, so it's just a matter of which one you want to carry audio and video on one cable and which one gets two cables.

Thanks guys. It's an ATI card. I looked around but didn't see any way to adjust the height and width. I'll take another look.
for pre-2002 ati radeon cards, you can read some more on the link in the next post (seems I can't post a direct link until I have one more post ~_~). A couple post 2002 cards may also use powerstrip, but I'm not sure. If your ati card has the catalyst control center, you can follow the process I posted a few days ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=206854

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=206854


Awesome info there, Stuffmonger!

;)

Mr Bob

I wanted to get your guys' take on this...I've had my basic settings around what the recommendations are on these boards with the exception of the color temperature (medium rather than standard). When I first did the settings, medium just seemed more "neutral" to me. I decided to give the standard setting another try last night and am glad I did. Initially, the whites look a bit more yellowed when compared with medium but I've gotten used to it. Actually, generally I would say that the entire picture is a little "punchier" (which is a good thing). Now, is this just my imagination or has anyone had a similar experience when comparing color temperatures?

I wanted to get your guys take on this...I've had my basic settings around what the recommendations are on these boards with the exception of the color temperature (medium rather than standard). When I first did the settings, medium just seemed more "neutral" to me. I decided to give the standard setting another try last night and am glad I did. Initially, the whites look a bit more yellowed when compared with medium but I've gotten used to it. Actually, generally I would say that the entire picture is a little "punchier" (which is a good thing). Now, is this just my imagination or has anyone had a similar experience when comparing color temperatures?

Eyes typically need a little breathing room around color temp changes, yes. Letting your eyes rest overnight and then watching everything on the new setting the next day, without going back to the old setting, is best for judgment purposes. Let your eyes get used to it for awhile, THEN flash back to the old settings and back again, a time or 2, just for comparison.

The closer your b/w's are to the color of a gray overcast sky at mid contrast levels, the closer you are to D6500K.

The creamier your whites are the better, with OOB whites usually way too blue-white. This is done strictly for imitating higher light levels, even tho it is NOT real. The manuf's do this to compete with each other in the marketplace, to the viewer's detriment.

Creamy whites, at midcontrast, are the real thing.


Mr Bob

Thanks, Mr Bob - that's about how I would describe the whites now - more creamy than anything whereas on medium they were more neutral or slightly blue-ish. Actually it helps to give the whole picture a more warm and vibrant feel in my opinion.

Hitachi is now claiming that they are working on the issue and asked me to turn off Auto Aspect (under Menu \ Aspect). Not sure if this does anything yet.

They are claiming the engineers cannot repro the issue.

SO

I've start a new thread about this to keep track of how many people have the problem and using what equipment.

Please start discussion under the thread called...
"Hitachi F59 series HDMI Shift Issue discussion"

Sears delivered my 51F59a today....$699.00...Directv also installed
my new HDTV dvr recorder and dish...I made the basic adjustments
that were recommended here, and I have a great picture. I'm
really happy with it right now. One thing, the HDMI from the STB
to the TV did NOT work. The Sat guy had to hook it up with component
cables and it works fine. I guess I should be calling Hitachi up on
Monday to get a tech out here to look at this. Also, when they come
out, will they make all the adjustments in that are explained in the
DIY post, so I don't have to do it? Just want to know because my
arse is getting to old for this, and I want to watch TV, instead of
reading this forum for a couple years :) I'm just afraid to get into
that service menu, if they will make those adjustments for me....

Cheers.............John

Hitachi is now claiming that they are working on the issue and asked me to turn off Auto Aspect (under Menu \ Aspect). Not sure if this does anything yet.


Did turning auto aspect off stop the image shift issue for you? It didn't for me.

I wanted to get your guys' take on this...I've had my basic settings around what the recommendations are on these boards with the exception of the color temperature (medium rather than standard). When I first did the settings, medium just seemed more "neutral" to me. I decided to give the standard setting another try last night and am glad I did. Initially, the whites look a bit more yellowed when compared with medium but I've gotten used to it. Actually, generally I would say that the entire picture is a little "punchier" (which is a good thing). Now, is this just my imagination or has anyone had a similar experience when comparing color temperatures?
Funny, I just changed it to "high" and prefer it being less yellow. Whites are much whiter and flesh tones look great (which is what got me to try changing it in the first place - got a new demo disc with a composite picture of four faces of different nationalities [is that politically correct enough?]). Of course, a REAL calibration would have everything set perfectly (plug for Mr. Bob), but my eyes are happy with this. For now.
Michael

Hello, I have been reasearching CRT RPTV's here for about 6 weeks, and finally purchased a 65f59 last week (this site is a tremendous resource). The picture quality was quite good OOB, but this thread was great for making the necessary tweaks to get it just right. One discrepency I had though is in regard to SRTGA.

After watching the TV for the first couple of days, I did the service menu tweaks from the DIY guide. Next day I did the DCAM convergence (and again a few days later) because I just couldn't get the picture as clear as I wanted it. I was getting very frustrated, thinking that I screwed something up. On Saturday, I 'undid' the change to SRTGA, moving it back to 10 after having moved it to 00. The difference in picture quality is (to my eyes) very clear. I would recommend to those who are struggling with tweaks, and have changed the setting on SRTGA, to at least give this a try, maybe your taste is similar to mine.

And thanks to all those who have provided the invaluable information contained within this thread and others.

I have to agree, I was having an issue with sharpness and clarity after doing all the tweaks. After going back and changing the SRTGA back to 10, I am much happier. The diffrence is very noticeable in my opinion. I would also suggest anyone try it after they've had the set for a while and see what they think.

I never had auto aspect on and I still have image shift. I have the XBOX 360 Elite through HDMI since 4-29 and it shifted twice on me.

Funny, I just changed it to "high" and prefer it being less yellow. Whites are much whiter and flesh tones look great (which is what got me to try changing it in the first place - got a new demo disc with a composite picture of four faces of different nationalities [is that politically correct enough?]). Of course, a REAL calibration would have everything set perfectly (plug for Mr. Bob), but my eyes are happy with this. For now.
Michael

I prefer the fleshtones when it's on high, but it's a little too bluish for me, especially since the Hitachi seems to defocus blue a bit much. I compromise with Meduim. Standard is too yellow and warm for me. Especially on fleshtones.

I never had auto aspect on and I still have image shift. I have the XBOX 360 Elite through HDMI since 4-29 and it shifted twice on me.

Turning auto aspect off (per Hitachi customer service request) did not fix image shift issue for me, so I'm back to component cable until they come up with fix.

I have my XBOX 360 Elite via HDMI and I just got DVE HD DVD combo format. I was messing around with the contrast adjustment screen on the DVD side(hd dvd side does not work for now on the 360 hd dvd add on until a firmware update on monday)and the image shift was going CRAZY. Every time I moved the adjust bar the screen would shift. Did this ever happen to anybody else.

I prefer the fleshtones when it's on high, but it's a little too bluish for me, especially since the Hitachi seems to defocus blue a bit much. I compromise with Meduim. Standard is too yellow and warm for me. Especially on fleshtones.
I have redone the blue focus both mechanically and electrostatically, so perhaps my blue is a little less de-focused than usual.
Funny, you don't look bluish. ;)
Michael

Well, I just did the hdmi tweak listed in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10470355&&#post10470355) . After doing that, my picture on my set changed so that my custom resolution was now too small for my set. I'm now running at 1200X692 whereas before I was at 912X636. After messing around a bit with the catalyst control center, I finally got a new custom resolution made, but it took much more effort this time. I discovered that YOU CAN ONLY MAKE A CUSTOM RESOLUTION WHEN THE TAB FOR YOUR DISPLAY IS "DIGITAL PANEL PROPERTIES 3". If it says DTV 3, or something else, you must get it to say digital panel properties 3 instead.


How I got it to change> under the display managers tab, I forced 1920X1080 @30hz, and then it changed to digital panel properties in the tab below.

other settings I have set that may make a difference:
under display options -> drop menu set to "list all possible modes (including panning modes)"
under digital panel properties 3 -> attributes -> "use centered timings"
under digital panel properties 3 -> hdtv support -> "add 1080i standard format to the displays manager" (also 720p)
All other settings for mine are set to factory defaults. Hope this helps.

which test pattern is best on Avia for the mechanical focus? Is it ok to do the focus after i've done the 117pt convergence? set has been running for several days now and probably has about 50 hours on it. have not done anything in the service menu.

set is very nice, just a tad soft.

which test pattern is best on Avia for the mechanical focus? Is it ok to do the focus after i've done the 117pt convergence? set has been running for several days now and probably has about 50 hours on it. have not done anything in the service menu.

set is very nice, just a tad soft.


Widescreen enhanced circlehatch grid, in 480. Don't use 1080, as denser scanlines are harder to see, and scanlines themselves are what I use for focusing.

Optical focus should be done before conv because changing the lens focusing changes the size of that color's pic, disturbing the conv.

I recommend the Cantilever Technique. Of course that's because I wrote it...

:cool:

Mr Bob

I recommend the Cantilever Technique. Of course that's because I wrote it...

:cool:

Mr Bob
Link to that article?
And you're doing this at 3AM?!

set is very nice, just a tad soft.
If you define "soft," perhaps someone here can help.

Link to that article?
And you're doing this at 3AM?!


I'm a nightowl. I didn't finish today's calibration till around midnight, then had an hour's drive after that, to get back from San Jose. This was the second trip, since the first trip had to be dedicated strictly to repairing the Elite in question, and cleaning the optics.

Then I tried my best to watch at least one hour of HD, to clear space on my DVR for the rest of the week's shows. I actually made it to 40 minutes in, before I konked out! My set's timer function is my new best friend, for avoiding screenburn on my set when I konk out late at night, and the HD turns to SD with black bars. I set my set for an hour just after I start watching that hour, and it turns itself off whether I've stayed awake for that hour or not.

I am sure you can find info on the CT, if you want to look. If you want it from the horse's mouth, feel free to call. We'd do a half hour consult, where you could ask me anything about calibrations you want, after what you originally called for.


Mr Bob

Widescreen enhanced circlehatch grid, in 480. Don't use 1080, as denser scanlines are harder to see, and scanlines themselves are what I use for focusing.

Optical focus should be done before conv because changing the lens focusing changes the size of that color's pic, disturbing the conv.

I recommend the Cantilever Technique. Of course that's because I wrote it...

:cool:

Mr Bob

how will I know which one is the widescreen enhanced circlehatch grid? there must be 100 different patterns on this dvd.

i'll use the component input @ 480. using the scan lines to focus - nice! I was looking at the differences from my Denon 2910 480 vs. 1080 last night - interesting. not sure which i want to use yet.

as far as "soft", i guess it looks very slightly out of focus. when converging, the blue is not as sharp as the red. maybe normal?

how will I know which one is the widescreen enhanced circlehatch grid? there must be 100 different patterns on this dvd.

i'll use the component input @ 480. using the scan lines to focus - nice! I was looking at the differences from my Denon 2910 480 vs. 1080 last night - interesting. not sure which i want to use yet.

as far as "soft", i guess it looks very slightly out of focus. when converging, the blue is not as sharp as the red. maybe normal?


On an AVIA grid pattern, you'll find that each hor line is comprised of 2 fine scan lines with a space between them, and the vertical line is comprised of hor dashes.

Go to the main menu, choose up the 3rd out of the 4 selections, then Repeat Pattern down below in the left corner, then test patterns. There's a section for 4x3 called Geometry and Convergence, and a section or 2 for 16x9. You will want the Widescreen Enhanced version. Yes, there are loads of patterns on that disc, but it is relatively easy to surf. UNlike DVE, which is a total bastard to surf, and VERY unfriendly.

Your DVDP will have to be in Pan and Scan for the geo patterns to look right on your 16x9 screen.

If you mess up and all of a sudden you are getting a completely different master menu, with 2 halves, hit OPEN - eject your disc - and get outa there and start over. Once that has happened, you can't get back to the master overall menu without completely bailing out and going in again.

The blue will rarely be as sharp as the other colors. Which is OK, because blue is more a fill color, while red and green are the actual structure colors.


Mr Bob

I have redone the blue focus both mechanically and electrostatically, so perhaps my blue is a little less de-focused than usual.
Funny, you don't look bluish. ;)
Michael

I also asjusted my focus both ways, but it as a while ago. It may be due for a re-do. But my blue is still too unfocused for my tastes. I'm happy with my picture in most other aspects, but the focus and geometry are pains in my backside. Along with the convergence. No matter what I do, I see rainbows.

I also asjusted my focus both ways, but it as a while ago. It may be due for a re-do. But my blue is still too unfocused for my tastes. I'm happy with my picture in most other aspects, but the focus and geometry are pains in my backside. Along with the convergence. No matter what I do, I see rainbows.


Tightly focusing your blue electrostatically diminishes it a wee bit in your whites, and in the present climate can be very valuable in getting your whites back to the creamy whites they should be, rather than the intensed blue-whiteness most sets are sent out with these days.

Perhaps you just need a master calibrator on the case with you.


Mr Bob

Tightly focusing your blue electrostatically diminishes it a wee bit in your whites, and in the present climate can be very valuable in getting your whites back to the creamy whites they should be, rather than the intensed blue-whiteness most sets are sent out with these days.

Perhaps you just need a master calibrator on the case with you.


Mr Bob

Of that there is no doubt, I do need a master calibrator on the case. I live in Utah though, and have been unable to find one. At least not one I think would be as meticulous as I would like. Maybe one day you'll swing through these parts and we can set something up.

I am having issues with my geometry, reducing overscan has played havoc with it on the sides. I am afraid to change green to fix it. Maybe I'll get brave and try it tonight.

Of that there is no doubt, I do need a master calibrator on the case. I live in Utah though, and have been unable to find one. At least not one I think would be as meticulous as I would like. Maybe one day you'll swing through these parts and we can set something up.

I am having issues with my geometry, reducing overscan has played havoc with it on the sides. I am afraid to change green to fix it. Maybe I'll get brave and try it tonight.


You can't change the geometry on just one or 2 colors. It has to be done on all 3.


Mr Bob

I've got an issue I'm hoping I can get identified and, hopefully, resolved. I notice that when viewing shows in HD my picture looks excellent except for one thing. Any time there is an area with a good amount of solid color, as opposed to something like leaves on a tree, I see something similar to what I've read SSE looks like. The only difference is that it's not "sparkly", it's just not totally solid. I see little dancing specs, almost like static. Any idea what it is or how to fix it?

You can't change the geometry on just one or 2 colors. It has to be done on all 3.


Mr Bob

I know you need to do all three, but I have read that green is the color you don;t want to touch unless you have a template, and I don't. Would it be ok to just basically straighten all the bent lines out?

I've got an issue I'm hoping I can get identified and, hopefully, resolved. I notice that when viewing shows in HD my picture looks excellent except for one thing. Any time there is an area with a good amount of solid color, as opposed to something like leaves on a tree, I see something similar to what I've read SSE looks like. The only difference is that it's not "sparkly", it's just not totally solid. I see little dancing specs, almost like static. Any idea what it is or how to fix it?


What's your HD source? This may very well be some sort of compression effect and not an issue with the TV itself.

If we're talking about the same thing, I think I've seen this too. But not on EVERY HD source--mostly on a couple of the local HD stations that multicast several signals.

Any chance you could post a visual example?

I know you need to do all three, but I have read that green is the color you don;t want to touch unless you have a template, and I don't. Would it be ok to just basically straighten all the bent lines out?


I know Bob will give you a more detailed answer, but a template/screen jig IS NOT absolutely necessary to fix geometry.

However, if you have not altered your set's overscan amount and would prefer using a screen jig, there are downloadable .pdfs for all 3 sizes of F59 jigs on this very thread----

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9567850&&#post9567850

---that can be dumped to CD and taken to any print shop with an AutoCAD machine.

I had a 51" jig done up at my local Kinko's a few months back. Cost me less than $20 to get it done on vellum paper (although mylar would be more preferable). Used it to help return my set to factory spec oscan after my first failed attempt at oscan reduction. Since finally nailing just under 4% oscan all around, the jig is now useless (since the DCAM grid is now smaller). But the jig and the procedure to correct geo issues were failry easy stuff. This post will help you with further instructions/tips on nailing perfect geometry with a screen jig:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9642993&&#post9642993

Now, if you want to reduce factory oscan, that's a whole other can of worms! ;)

I fixed my post-oscan reduction geometry issues by first getting the green gridlines as straight as possible by sight, then matching red/blue to those. I then utilized the F59 DCAM function of having ext. video displayed in DCAM mode to fix any obvious--and later not so obvious--geo problems by further tweaking green, then red/blue. Those sources included:

--2.35:1 ratio movies, to check horiz geo with the "black bars" (similarly, black and gray 4:3 pillarbox bars worked for vert. geo)

--rollign credits from several sources at different speeds to catch geo "speedbumps"

--my Comcast cable box's onscreen guide (Dish/DirecTv's would also work)

--AVIA patterns (crosshatch, circle crosshatch)

--programs with lots of vert/horiz slow panning images. Think Discovery/History Channel/PBS/A&E docs. My personal fave for this was the EMPIRE OF DREAMS doc found on the STAR WARS TRILOGY DVD boxset.

--bottom of screen scrollng text tickers (CNN, ESPNHD). Even DVR'ed an episode of Good Morning America in HD, just to have it's 16x9 bottom ticker for reference.

Whichever route you take, I suggest periodically writing DCAM settings to ROM while making adjustments. That way, as you get closer to perfect, if something gets screwed up/goes wrong you can just do a ROM READ to return to the last "save point".



OK....maybe I got more detailed than I thought. Bob, jump in here if I'm mising anything/getting something wrong. ;)

What's your HD source? This may very well be some sort of compression effect and not an issue with the TV itself.

If we're talking about the same thing, I think I've seen this too. But not on EVERY HD source--mostly on a couple of the local HD stations that multicast several signals.

Any chance you could post a visual example?


I have Dish with my locals OTA and it happens with both.

I don't think a still image would capture it since it appears to be a moving artifact(?). I suppose pausing the image would tell me if it was compression or not. Theoretically the "static" (or whatever) should stop when the image is stopped if it is due to compression, right? If it doesn't stop I would assume that would make it SSE or some other issue with the TV itself.

Can anyone tell me what resolutnion to use on my HTPC with the 51f59? I am not sure of its resolution, I can do up to 2048X1632 or something like that with my video card..

I know Bob will give you a more detailed answer, but a template/screen jig IS NOT absolutely necessary to fix geometry.

However, if you have not altered your set's overscan amount and would prefer using a screen jig, there are downloadable .pdfs for all 3 sizes of F59 jigs on this very thread----

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9567850&&#post9567850

---that can be dumped to CD and taken to any print shop with an AutoCAD machine.

I had a 51" jig done up at my local Kinko's a few months back. Cost me less than $20 to get it done on vellum paper (although mylar would be more preferable). Used it to help return my set to factory spec oscan after my first failed attempt at oscan reduction. Since finally nailing just under 4% oscan all around, the jig is now useless (since the DCAM grid is now smaller). But the jig and the procedure to correct geo issues were failry easy stuff. This post will help you with further instructions/tips on nailing perfect geometry with a screen jig:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9642993&&#post9642993

Now, if you want to reduce factory oscan, that's a whole other can of worms! ;)

I fixed my post-oscan reduction geometry issues by first getting the green gridlines as straight as possible by sight, then matching red/blue to those. I then utilized the F59 DCAM function of having ext. video displayed in DCAM mode to fix any obvious--and later not so obvious--geo problems by further tweaking green, then red/blue. Those sources included:

--2.35:1 ratio movies, to check horiz geo with the "black bars" (similarly, black and gray 4:3 pillarbox bars worked for vert. geo)

--rollign credits from several sources at different speeds to catch geo "speedbumps"

--my Comcast cable box's onscreen guide (Dish/DirecTv's would also work)

--AVIA patterns (crosshatch, circle crosshatch)

--programs with lots of vert/horiz slow panning images. Think Discovery/History Channel/PBS/A&E docs. My personal fave for this was the EMPIRE OF DREAMS doc found on the STAR WARS TRILOGY DVD boxset.

--bottom of screen scrollng text tickers (CNN, ESPNHD). Even DVR'ed an episode of Good Morning America in HD, just to have it's 16x9 bottom ticker for reference.

Whichever route you take, I suggest periodically writing DCAM settings to ROM while making adjustments. That way, as you get closer to perfect, if something gets screwed up/goes wrong you can just do a ROM READ to return to the last "save point".



OK....maybe I got more detailed than I thought. Bob, jump in here if I'm mising anything/getting something wrong. ;)

Thanks for the info, I was just worried about trying to correct my geometry after I did the overscan. I will go in and adjust it tonight.

lordcloud....

Another thing I forgot to mention (and was a little apprehensive to BTW, since I want to make sure the proper nomenclature gets used) is that another "trick" to fixing geometry involves the raster function of DCAM. Don't know if it's the case on other CRT sets, but on the F59s, raster (overall position of each color grid) is adjustable by separate H/V lines--not just the center point (which moves the entire grid). This came in very handy when I had some geo speedbumps show up towards the bottom half of the screen with rolling credits.

The DIY Guide and service manual (do you have those?) give the breakdown for accessing raster adj in DCAM (press PAUSE on remote while in DCAM-grid appearence changes slightly-some additional horiz lines appear and cursor will only travel along the center H/V axis). Entire H/V lines can be adjusted up/down or left right (depending on whether it's a H or V line)--not just at one point, but in a grid-wide adjustment. This can be done with ext video displayed and in the DCAM mode of the "crosshairs only" (not the entire DCAM grid).

I would use this method while adjusting green. You can see the green elements of the video move. Would then catch red/blue up to this and recheck the moving video (video was paused and mental note taken as to where speedbumps were while actually adjusting raster points).

Hope this makes some sense. Feel free to post/pm any other questions. And if you read this Bob, please say if my suggestions (although they worked great for me and I imagine you may have used this method yourself) are a bad idea.

Yippee, Yi-o, Cuy-ae! Hitachi FINALLY delivered my (factory new) replacement 51F59A and picked up my unrepairable (geometry problem Sears couldn't fix) one yesterday.

So far, this new one is looking very good fresh out of the box.

First thing I did was pull up SM and write down all the settings in TA1383 (including white balance numbers) and TA1360... "just in case." :cool:

Curiously, the "AUTO COLOR" on this new 51F59A works opposite from the way it worked on the replaced one. On the replaced one, "AUTO COLOR" added too much pink/red hue to flesh tones. On this new one it removes some red/pink hue from flesh tones, i.e. flesh tones look more amber/yellow with it on. As usual, the wife says she doesn't notice it, but I do. Not a problem at all, since with AUTO COLOR off and color temp @ MEDIUM the flesh tones look perfect to me. Just found it curious. Probably an example of factory calibration differences between different production runs.

Took Hitachi FOREVER to get this replacement set to me. Whole process from first Sears repair attempt (end of February) to receiving the replacement set the other day was too long. However, this is likely due in part to having to deal with Sears.

I have no complaints on the new one, though, the convergence is spot-on right out of the shipping box, the color temp @ MEDIUM looks spot-on accurate. Even the factory default brightness settting in user video @ 50 is right in the middle of the optimal black level on AVIA's bar steps and half gray screen for black level calibration (range of 48 - 51 looked optimal).

Running her w/ CONTRAST @ 31, BRIGHTNESS @ 50, COLOR @ 43

lordcloud....

Another thing I forgot to mention (and was a little apprehensive to BTW, since I want to make sure the proper nomenclature gets used) is that another "trick" to fixing geometry involves the raster function of DCAM. Don't know if it's the case on other CRT sets, but on the F59s, raster (overall position of each color grid) is adjustable by separate H/V lines--not just the center point (which moves the entire grid). This came in very handy when I had some geo speedbumps show up towards the bottom half of the screen with rolling credits.

The DIY Guide and service manual (do you have those?) give the breakdown for accessing raster adj in DCAM (press PAUSE on remote while in DCAM-grid appearence changes slightly-some additional horiz lines appear and cursor will only travel along the center H/V axis). Entire H/V lines can be adjusted up/down or left right (depending on whether it's a H or V line)--not just at one point, but in a grid-wide adjustment. This can be done with ext video displayed and in the DCAM mode of the "crosshairs only" (not the entire DCAM grid).

I would use this method while adjusting green. You can see the green elements of the video move. Would then catch red/blue up to this and recheck the moving video (video was paused and mental note taken as to where speedbumps were while actually adjusting raster points).

Hope this makes some sense. Feel free to post/pm any other questions. And if you read this Bob, please say if my suggestions (although they worked great for me and I imagine you may have used this method yourself) are a bad idea.

Recentering the entire images is very important, and makes it so that it does not have to be done in User - which is impossible to do anyway, I do believe, on a Hit. Most other CRT RPTVs allow for crosshairs, but not Hit. So your instros are right on. We have to do that during cals, also.

One trick I came up with on my Atlanta trip is that when you get the outside sides correct up against the screenframe, the vertical lines half a foot in, where the 4x3 edges hit, could be a bit off in terms of curvature and/or angularity, whenever 4x3 material is up there. One way is to put up a 4x3 picture and use that.

Another is to simply tape 2 strings with a weight on each of them to the top of the set and let them hang over the front, so that they will land somewhere closeby to where the 4x3 edges will land, and use them to keep those edges straight, as you do your workings. A plumbline.

I am very good at getting the edges straight, but sometimes I forget to get the edges half a foot in, to look completely straight when black side bars are up there. It makes no difference to me what the 4x3 edge looks like, and on HD you won't see any differences. I have never prioritized it on my own sets - what with getting the convergence so sharp that I can see scanlines at a distance in HD and the grain of the film used to shoot movies, my concentration is going where needed most. 4x3 is a really secondary, back seat concern for me. But those who watch a lot of 4x3 can sometimes get distracted if that vertical edge is not fully, ruler-flat straight.

And sometimes it gets curved when there's a strong white to black transition, or vice versa. In which case you just get it straight at some average light level, and live with it!

As I said, when what you watch is mostly full screen HD, you don't see any edges there anyway. To me, this is an almost negligible fine point, but I respect the wishes of anybody who does see it and wants it taken care of.


Mr Bob

Even the factory default brightness settting in user video @ 50 is right in the middle of the optimal black level on AVIA's bar steps and half gray screen for black level calibration (range of 48 - 51 looked optimal).




Yeah, having a range for br is very important, rather than depending on just one absolute setting. I use anywhere from 41-44 on my new Mits, depending on the material, and on my older Panny I would take the br 5 clicks down whenever The Tonight Show was on (down to 41 on my new Mit).

Shows like Leno, Battlestar Galactica and 24 typically have darks that may need different tuning for their duration, from that of most TV shows.


Mr Bob

Ran across this package deal online and was just wondering if it's a good one. All items new, no refurbishing, or returned merchandise.

Hitachi - Hitachi 57F59 57" CRT Projection DTV
Toshiba - Toshiba HD-A2 Multiformat HD DVD Player with Progressive Scan
Monster - Monster® 400 for HDMI®: Super-High Performance Audio/Video Cable 1 m.
Monster - Monster Video® 2 Component Video Cable 1 m. length - 3.28 ft.
Monster - Monster Ultimate Performance TV Cleaning Kit Big Screen Cleaning Kit
Total 1499.

Ran across this package deal online and was just wondering if it's a good one. All items new, no refurbishing, or returned merchandise.

Hitachi - Hitachi 57F59 57" CRT Projection DTV
Toshiba - Toshiba HD-A2 Multiformat HD DVD Player with Progressive Scan
Monster - Monster® 400 for HDMI®: Super-High Performance Audio/Video Cable 1 m.
Monster - Monster Video® 2 Component Video Cable 1 m. length - 3.28 ft.
Monster - Monster Ultimate Performance TV Cleaning Kit Big Screen Cleaning Kit
Total 1499.
For 1500, you can buy the hit 65F59A instead ;)

For 1500, you can buy the hit 65F59A instead ;)


Oh sure...you just HAD to go and say that, didn't you??? ::Sighs and lumbers off to get a sledgehammer to open up more space:: ;)

Ran across this package deal online and was just wondering if it's a good one. All items new, no refurbishing, or returned merchandise.

Hitachi - Hitachi 57F59 57" CRT Projection DTV
Toshiba - Toshiba HD-A2 Multiformat HD DVD Player with Progressive Scan
Monster - Monster® 400 for HDMI®: Super-High Performance Audio/Video Cable 1 m.
Monster - Monster Video® 2 Component Video Cable 1 m. length - 3.28 ft.
Monster - Monster Ultimate Performance TV Cleaning Kit Big Screen Cleaning Kit
Total 1499.

Looks like pretty good deal to me. If your ready to take that next step in Movies, I would say go for-it. HI-DEF Movies are amazing. Here's a couple of HI-DEF Movie shots from The Hitcher HD DVD running of my HITACHI:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC05637.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC05641.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC05644.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC05645.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC05648.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC05652.jpg

I apologize if this has been asked before but I searched this thread and couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

I have recently received the Avia disc and briefly looked through it. When tweaking the Hitachi, I know the correct sequence is Focus, Overscan, Geometry, and lastly, DCam convergence.

My question is are there any step-by-step instructions on how to do the Focus, Overscan, and Geometry? I've read a post on how to get into the DCam convergence and adjust it so I think I've got that down. It's just the first three steps that I'm not sure how to do. I've skimmed through the DIY guide on the first page of this post. Are the instructions in there somewhere??

Any help would be appreciated.

Ran across this package deal online and was just wondering if it's a good one. All items new, no refurbishing, or returned merchandise.

Hitachi - Hitachi 57F59 57" CRT Projection DTV
Toshiba - Toshiba HD-A2 Multiformat HD DVD Player with Progressive Scan
Monster - Monster® 400 for HDMI®: Super-High Performance Audio/Video Cable 1 m.
Monster - Monster Video® 2 Component Video Cable 1 m. length - 3.28 ft.
Monster - Monster Ultimate Performance TV Cleaning Kit Big Screen Cleaning Kit
Total 1499.

I paid under a grand (with free shipping) for my 57F59A.

Amazon has that DVD player for $319 (free shipping).

The Monster cables are the high tech version of snake oil--I'm sure they list for a few hundred combined, but you can get equivalent ones at monoprice.com for ~$25 each.

I had my last RP CRT set for 8 years and never cleaned the screen (in fact, many say you should not touch the screen with cleaner, but who knows), so I would assign very little, if any value to that item.

I suspect shipping would be on top of the $1,499?

I get around $1,370 excluding the screen cleaner, so that doesn't sound like a good deal. The store is doing what lots of car dealers do--add a bunch of high cost, high margin items to the base item, which improves their profit on the deal.

One trick I came up with on my Atlanta trip

Damn it Bob, how did I miss the fact you were coming to Atlanta! Sure could have used your services.

-Funk

Ran across this package deal online and was just wondering if it's a good one. All items new, no refurbishing, or returned merchandise.

Hitachi - Hitachi 57F59 57" CRT Projection DTV
Toshiba - Toshiba HD-A2 Multiformat HD DVD Player with Progressive Scan
Monster - Monster® 400 for HDMI®: Super-High Performance Audio/Video Cable 1 m.
Monster - Monster Video® 2 Component Video Cable 1 m. length - 3.28 ft.
Monster - Monster Ultimate Performance TV Cleaning Kit Big Screen Cleaning Kit
Total 1499.

I saw somewhere they had the 57F59 on clearance for $1099, maybe Sears.com (?).

Unless the Toshy DVD player is one of the pricey ones, I'd say that pkg deal is not that great since more than likely the Monster branded cables are adding quite a bit to it and as we all know a $19.95 HDMI cable is every bit as good as a $150 Monster one, since its binary data (1's and 0's)- the data either gets through or it doesn't, no "super high performance" needed. HDMI cables either work or they don't. On or off. So more than likely the Monster component video cable is probably overpriced/ over valued in the pkg deal and the cleaning kit, too.

Damn it Bob, how did I miss the fact you were coming to Atlanta! Sure could have used your services.

-Funk


I am coming again in 3 weeks! Contact me immediately by phone and email. My regular email is down right now, so use the alternate, but phone is best. I will put you in touch with the organizer.


Mr Bob

I apologize if this has been asked before but I searched this thread and couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

I have recently received the Avia disc and briefly looked through it. When tweaking the Hitachi, I know the correct sequence is Focus, Overscan, Geometry, and lastly, DCam convergence.

My question is are there any step-by-step instructions on how to do the Focus, Overscan, and Geometry? I've read a post on how to get into the DCam convergence and adjust it so I think I've got that down. It's just the first three steps that I'm not sure how to do. I've skimmed through the DIY guide on the first page of this post. Are the instructions in there somewhere??

Any help would be appreciated.


There are at least 4 threads currently running on AVS on Hitachis. At least one of them contains step by steps.

If you can't find what you need, I am available for phone consultation.


Mr Bob

There are at least 4 threads currently running on AVS on Hitachis. At least one of them contains step by steps.

If you can't find what you need, I am available for phone consultation.


Mr Bob

I'll keep searching. Thanks!

Another is to simply tape 2 strings with a weight on each of them to the top of the set and let them hang over the front, so that they will land somewhere closeby to where the 4x3 edges will land, and use them to keep those edges straight, as you do your workings. A plumbline.

I would think that unless the TV is perfectly level, those plumb lines could have you making lines that are not parallel to the screen!

Another is to simply tape 2 strings with a weight on each of them to the top of the set and let them hang over the front, so that they will land somewhere closeby to where the 4x3 edges will land, and use them to keep those edges straight, as you do your workings. A plumbline.

Mr Bob
I just used a yardstick. Worked fine, since the edges of the screen are straight.
Michael

I would think that unless the TV is perfectly level, those plumb lines could have you making lines that are not parallel to the screen!


How many HD viewing rooms have you been in, which have not been perfectly level???

How many rooms in a consumer house/home have you been in, which have not been perfectly level???

:p

Mr Bob

I just used a yardstick. Worked fine, since the edges of the screen are straight.
Michael


The area in question is half a foot away from the screen's edge. I think what you use in that way would have to be a lot wider than a yardstick, if that's what you were hanging down and using!

Mr Bob

The area in question is half a foot away from the screen's edge. I think what you use in that way would have to be a lot wider than a yardstick, if that's what you were hanging down and using!

Mr Bob
Used the DCAM grid and the measurements from the service manual. Don't need a "wide" yardstick, just a "long" one. :)
Michael

For the life of me, I can't seem to find how to view an external source while in dcam mode. I'm trying to tweak the last little bit of geometry and would like to use the 4:3 black bars and top/bottom black bars to finish this up.
I knew how to do this at one time and even had it printed out! Maybe it's too early and more than one cup of coffee is needed to start this Monday. :p

For the life of me, I can't seem to find how to view an external source while in dcam mode. I'm trying to tweak the last little bit of geometry and would like to use the 4:3 black bars and top/bottom black bars to finish this up.
I knew how to do this at one time and even had it printed out! Maybe it's too early and more than one cup of coffee is needed to start this Monday. :p

First, make sure the set is tuned to whichever input you plan to use BEFORE entering DCAM mode. Can't swap inputs once you're there.

Once in DCAM, press MENU on the F59 remote. If you are on the 1st DCAM screen (the "white" crosshatch grid), pressing MENU should take you to the "isolated color" grid (red--with the yellow grid--is the default). Next press of MENU should bring up the white crosshatch overlaying the input video source. Subsequent presses of MENU will give you the ext video with adj "crosshair" (single white crosshair with the selected color surrounding it), then the same minus the white crosshair (only selected color "box"). Next press of MENU takes you back to the 1st DCAM screen.

You may have to experiment with the F59s remote "mode" while in DCAM to get certain remote functions to work properly. Once you enter DCAM, try repeating the "hold" TV, press "0", press "1", release TV procedure. If certain fiunctions do not respond, try: hold TV, press INFO, release TV.

My experience has shown that when doing geo fixes, it's often a good idea to write info to ROM often. This way, if you get close--but not perfect--and then really mess it up with further corrections, you can always do the ROM READ procedure to get you back to your last save point.

The aspect button on my remote hasnt been working for a couple weeks now and I was wondering if anyone else has had a problem. Is there something silly I'm missing or does the remote just need to be replaced?

Thanks!

The aspect button on my remote hasnt been working for a couple weeks now and I was wondering if anyone else has had a problem. Is there something silly I'm missing or does the remote just need to be replaced?

Thanks!

Could be a bad remote, or more likely one of several things:
--somebody could have pressed one of the other source buttons at the top (DVD, VCR, etc.), so try pressing TV and then see if it works
--batteries could be low
--my remote/TV is very sensitive to the direction of the remote vs. the TV IR sensor--have to be careful to point at if with no obstructions

I've definately made sure "tv" was the selected source, and I've pointed it at every angle from every place in the room, and every other button is working. I'll go ahead and swap out the batteries tomorrow, if that doesn't do it I'll see about a replacement.

I've definately made sure "tv" was the selected source, and I've pointed it at every angle from every place in the room, and every other button is working. I'll go ahead and swap out the batteries tomorrow, if that doesn't do it I'll see about a replacement.


Had the same thing happen on my last Hit cal, was the first time I was forced to put it into their new sm mode.

Directions on doing so are probably available earlier on in this thread, or at the several other Hit threads on this site.


Mr Bob

After owning the 51F59 for about 4 months (thanks to this site), I have the time now to do some more advanced calibrating.

I opened up the little control panal on the front to access the lenses for some manual focusing, and I noticed the mirror has like a light film on it, almost like it's kind of foggy in spots. And looking at the lenses in the mirror it seems they are kinda dusty. Is it safe to clean the mirror and lenses with an ammonia-free window cleaner and soft rag? Does it even matter for picture quality, though?

Also I checked overscan with my Avia disc; it seems the sides are about 5.75-6% and the top/bottom is about 3.75-4%. Would it be worth pulling in the sides, as I'm a little nervous about doing any geometry fixes, and I haven't done those before?

Thanks for any help.

After owning the 51F59 for about 4 months (thanks to this site), I have the time now to do some more advanced calibrating.

I opened up the little control panal on the front to access the lenses for some manual focusing, and I noticed the mirror has like a light film on it, almost like it's kind of foggy in spots. And looking at the lenses in the mirror it seems they are kinda dusty. Is it safe to clean the mirror and lenses with an ammonia-free window cleaner and soft rag? Does it even matter for picture quality, though?

Also I checked overscan with my Avia disc; it seems the sides are about 5.75-6% and the top/bottom is about 3.75-4%. Would it be worth pulling in the sides, as I'm a little nervous about doing any geometry fixes, and I haven't done those before?

Thanks for any help.


You must be new here. I have been singing the praises of optics cleaning for years, you can find out why at my website, in the Nuts and Bolts section, under Optics Cleaning. It tells you why any device using 30KV at all times will need regular cleaning. Something they don't tell you when you buy it - they would much prefer that you buy a new one instead, once yours starts looking bleary after a couple of years of use. They want you to think your set is aging and getting old, whereas the truth of the matter is that its pristine-ness is simply being clouded up by the optics sucking the dust/dirt/smoke and everything else imaginable that floats effortlessly in the air, OUT of the air and onto your optics.

IT IS ALL COMPLETELY REMOVABLE. Your optics have always been clean under all that furry gook, and will stay that way with proper care.

Doing so is much more effective than the Duvetyne Op, which seems to be much more prevalent on these forums. While the Duvetyne Op is valuable for wringing those last few microns of blackness out of your blacks by abosrbing internal reflections, optics cleaning - and deeper optics cleaning if necessary, down to the coolant covers and the backs of the lenses - is far more impressive in terms of the dynamic difference it makes in your picture.

The combo of both can't be beat.


As far as Overscan goes, if you have sides that are wider than the t/b are tall, you will NEVER have a circle when one is being presented, like the CBS and ABC logos. They will ALWAYS be ovals, and the same goes for faces. Your suspension of disbelief will never be complete, any more than it would be if you always watched your material stretched sideways.

Taking in overscan is the best thing you can do for your pic, and when you do so, make sure if at all possible that a circle looks like a circle when you're done. We can trust AVIA for 480i/p, but it's harder to find a circle on HD. Best if you can freeze a CBS or ABC logo on your DVR, and work with that, because HD pattern generators which actually put out circles are few and far between, and very, very expensive, as the algorithms required for them are astronomical.

But if do take in your overscan, be ready for strong learning curve on how to remedy the geometric distortion that ensues, as soon as you take the overscan in to decent levels.

Getting a picture back to where it was before in its coherency, after an overscan reduction, stretches my cals out by hours at a time, per scanrate. Very time intensive, but definitely worth every minute.

Luckily, on the newer Hits, the geo/conv for 540 is the same as for 1080.
So when you are thru with your 1080, as long as your set is the kind that upconverts any 480 hitting it to 540, you're done.



Mr Bob

PS - below are 2 pix of a 7 year old Pioneer, shot the same day, before and after a calibration, showing the dynamic difference optics cleaning makes. They adapted a little hot on their brightness, so you might want to turn the Br down on your computer monitor, to get the full effect.

Thanks a lot for your helpful reply, Mr. Bob. I'll check out your site about the optics cleaning. I used a flashlight at an angle and could see a decent buildup of dust on the lenses, I think I'll tackle them first. I don't smoke (in the house, at least) and don't have an unusually dirty place, but it can get pretty dusty here. Though I've only owned the Hitachi since January, it was made in June 06 according to the back, so I guess it stands that it's due for a cleaning. Any particular kind of cloth or towel you recommend?

The mirror was what really struck me, with that hazy fog on it in spots. But obviously I'll have to take the screen off to get to the mirror for cleaning, and I don't know if I want to tackle that yet lol. I'm working my way up in stages. :)

I did the DCAM convergence for the first time with success, using the Avia crosshatch 50 ire, and that made an improvement. I also tackled some geometry issues I had, and got some of them better, but still need to spend some more time with them. A few hours at a time was enough of that.

Thanks for your input on the overscan. I think once I get more comfortable in the DCAM mode and with adjusting geometry I'll attempt to reign in those sides. After I do bring it in, will I still be able to use Avia to recorrect my geometry and convergence?

I've absolutely loved this TV, got it from CC for a steal. I don't have digital cable or satellite, or even a DVR, but I've been enjoying OTA HD channels for free with a $20 antenna, and of course it's mainly for DVDs. And now HD DVDs since I took the plunge! People who've seen my set are blown away by the picture and can't believe how little I spent.

Thanks, Mr Bob. I'm a bit lost on the "sm mode" though, what exactly am I looking for in these threads? Not sure I've stumbled on to the right thing just yet.

I need a little help.

My 51F59 always has a green tint to it. I 'calibrated' it using Avia, and the color bars all seem to be around the middle. The tint setting in the user menu is a couple of clicks towards red. Contrast 15, brightness 55. All enhancements turned off (edge, blackness, etc) I toned down red push in the service menu. I forgot which item it is, but I found it in one of these threads.

The green seems to be prevalent everywhere. Skin tones and whites especially. Black and white pictures have hints of green/greenish-yellow. It's not horrible, but it is noticable to me.

What is the best way to fix this? I know there are service menu adjustments for the different colors. Could I use the green adjustments to tone it down? I know this will probably affect other colors as well. What is the difference between the DRV and CUT for each color? I have the service manual, but I haven't looked through it in a couple of months.

Thanks.

PDCL,
Reads like your gray scale settings are off, either from the factory or misadjusted since. B&W movies, or turning the color all the way down, shouldn't leave a color tint. Not sure what the "AVS" adjustments you mentioned are, but test DVDs (SD or HD) have patterns for pluge (contrast, brightness), color, and tint, as well as color decoding, and should supply the color transparencies used. If gray scale is misadjusted, DIY tweaking often makes it worse since calibration instruments are required for accuracy; that's one thing, besides experience, ISFers bring (see calibration forum here.) -- John

Luckily, on the newer Hits, the geo/conv for 540 is the same as for 1080.
So when you are thru with your 1080, as long as your set is the kind that upconverts any 480 hitting it to 540, you're done.

That is true of the F59 sets. All 480i/p is either 540p or 1080i, depending on your "Virtual HD" setting, when displayed.

Same goes for HD OTA signals. The F59 digital tuner is not HD. 1080i/720p OTA HD signals get dumped to 480i then rescaled by the set to 540p/1080i (still in proper aspect ratio, and digital audio is received and pumped out of the optical out). But I have seen what OTA HD looks like on these sets and it is very nice. Not surprised that so many users have been shocked to find they aren't really watching HD OTA.

Of course, this is not the case with other HD sources (sat/cable/HDDVD....). Those are shown in real 1080i.

Thanks, John. I meant Avia, not sure why I typed AVS (corrected in post above).

jwebb1970,
A digital OTA signal requires an 8VSB tuner for reception. You're saying after 8VSB tuning (a digital signal), these sets can't process true-HD ATSC (digital OTA) onto the screens?! A bit mind boggling. Tried a bit of Googling on this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=663065&pp=60
but it's too wearying to wade through it. -- John

Just going by what others have determined here regarding the F59 tuner.

It is a digital tuner, and will obviously pick up HD OTA signals, but doesn't directly display them in HD. Everything fed to the coax input is internally dumped to 480i then rescaled to either 540p or 1080i (and 16x9 aspect activated for HD signals). Apparently, the Virtual HD (540p/1080i scaler) function is available when receiving OTA HD (although I only had an antenna HU'd to mine once, so I could be wrong) just as it is when ANY 480i/p signal comes from other inputs. Virtual HD is inactive (grayed out on menu list) when component/HDMI HD sources are selected. Only time any conversion occurs with component/HDMI HD is if it's sent to the set in 720p (rescaled to 1080i automatically).

Kinda lame, I know. But this was somehow a cost-cutting feature that Hitachi felt they could live with. If so, I have to agree. Rather make a cut there than in something else, like in the lens system or something else. You can still get actual 1080i HD via any of the other source choices. Although if OTA HD is your Holy Grail, the lack of an internal HD tuner is a bummer. As a happy digital cable user, it matters little to me.

Again, I think it does show how good the internal scaler really is. OTA HD signals do look very nice, as does 480i DVD. No real diff in 480i DVD via component over HDMI-fed 1080i upscaled DVD (which deactivates VHD).

Prior to swapping for a newer model HDDVR from Comcast (that obviously has a better video chip), PQ of "analog" cable (ch2-99) was markedly improved if the coax cable was fed directly to the set and accessing it's cable ready tuner instead of thru component from the older model converter box/HDDVR.

Hitachi CSRs have also confirmed this. "Real" 1080i HD can only be displayed via non-OTA sources (sat/cable/HD media) via component and/or HDMI.

Just going by what others have determined here regarding the F59 tuner.

It is a digital tuner, and will obviously pick up HD OTA signals, but doesn't directly display them in HD. Everything fed to the coax input is internally dumped to 480i then rescaled to either 540p or 1080i (and 16x9 aspect activated for HD signals). Apparently, the Virtual HD (540p/1080i scaler) function is available when receiving OTA HD (although I only had an antenna HU'd to mine once, so I could be wrong) just as it is when ANY 480i/p signal comes from other inputs. Virtual HD is inactive (grayed out on menu list) when component/HDMI HD sources are selected. Only time any conversion occurs with component/HDMI HD is if it's sent to the set in 720p (rescaled to 1080i automatically).

Kinda lame, I know. But this was somehow a cost-cutting feature that Hitachi felt they could live with. If so, I have to agree. Rather make a cut there than in something else, like in the lens system or something else. You can still get actual 1080i HD via any of the other source choices. Although if OTA HD is your Holy Grail, the lack of an internal HD tuner is a bummer. As a happy digital cable user, it matters little to me.

Again, I think it does show how good the internal scaler really is. OTA HD signals do look very nice, as does 480i DVD. No real diff in 480i DVD via component over HDMI-fed 1080i upscaled DVD (which deactivates VHD).

Prior to swapping for a newer model HDDVR from Comcast (that obviously has a better video chip), PQ of "analog" cable (ch2-99) was markedly improved if the coax cable was fed directly to the set and accessing it's cable ready tuner instead of thru component from the older model converter box/HDDVR.

Hitachi CSRs have also confirmed this. "Real" 1080i HD can only be displayed via non-OTA sources (sat/cable/HD media) via component and/or HDMI.


As a cost-cutting factor, it's not really all that bad a situation. They are closing these babies out for a pittance, and yeah, that looks like the only cost-cutter they did, leaving the lenses and such alone, all those other things still staying top quality throughout the unit.

As such, accepting this actually non-HD OTA tuner situation and springing for a $150 Samsung ATSC HD tuner to replace it and get true HD from OTA, seems the best of both worlds.


Mr Bob

If anyone in Canada is looking for the 51F59 I just confirmed that "The Brick" has plenty in stock. Winnipeg (Manitoba) alone has 16 of them available. Current sale price is $1098. Canadian dollars of course.

If anyone in Canada is looking for the 51F59 I just confirmed that "The Brick" has plenty in stock. Winnipeg (Manitoba) alone has 16 of them available. Current sale price is $1098. Canadian dollars of course.


What does that currently translate into, in USDs?


Mr Bob

What does that currently translate into, in USDs?


Mr Bob
According to Google, still over $1000, which is more than I paid for my 57. Glad I don't need another.

According to Google, still over $1000, which is more than I paid for my 57. Glad I don't need another.


1098 IS over 1000 already.

Are you saying our dollar has eroded so much that we are on an even keel with Canada now? I've heard things have changed in the value of our dollar, but have not been keeping track -


Mr Bob

1098 IS over 1000 already.

Are you saying our dollar has eroded so much that we are on an even keel with Canada now? I've heard things have changed in the value of our dollar, but have not been keeping track -


Mr Bob

Correct--the US dollar is down to 1.08 Canadian dollars. The US dollar is down big time vs. all major currencies (Euro, British Pound, etc.).

Correct--the US dollar is down to 1.08 Canadian dollars. The US dollar is down big time vs. all major currencies (Euro, British Pound, etc.).


ARRGGHH!


Mr Bob

Hey all- Thanks to this wonderful thread (and the $629 price tag!!) I picked up a 51 two weeks ago. If it wasn't for this thread, I may have believed the service rep that told me last week that the red and green dot in the middle of my screen, the extremely blurry edges, BLAZING WHITES, and all-over red tints were normal!!! I did go through DCAM etc, and not much change. He did, however, reset my contrast, etc back to factory specs!! The whites are so bright like that that it is difficult to watch. Needless to say, I called in a new service company, so hopefully I will have the great results you all speak of!

Just a few quick questions... (Keep the mocking to a minimum, I am just getting started on my life luxuries!)

While I realize RCA cables are not the finest quality, I should have great DVD picture on this TV, correct? I would love to be sure that I am not expecting too much from my non-HD cable service, although it is digital. Same for Play Station 2?

Thanks in advance.

While I realize RCA cables are not the finest quality, I should have great DVD picture on this TV, correct? I would love to be sure that I am not expecting too much from my non-HD cable service, although it is digital. Same for Play Station 2?


I have a SD DVD player and the PQ is great--I use component cables I got from monoprice.com for ~$25. Do yourself a favor and get the component cables, the PQ is a big step up from composite (RCA) cables, and the difference is more noticable on a larger set.

I watch mostly HD TV content, but even the SD channels look great on this set--set virtual HD to 1080i, and again, connect the set top box with component cables.

Just going by what others have determined here regarding the F59 tuner.

It is a digital tuner, and will obviously pick up HD OTA signals, but doesn't directly display them in HD. Everything fed to the coax input is internally dumped to 480i then rescaled to either 540p or 1080i (and 16x9 aspect activated for HD signals).

That explains alot. I tweaked and tweaked trying to get that OTA to look like HD. I thought it was HD, just poorer quality.

That explains alot. I tweaked and tweaked trying to get that OTA to look like HD. I thought it was HD, just poorer quality.


This is the only brand I've heard of that does this - gives owners pseudo HD OTA, rather than REAL HD. It's only on OTA, on their built-in quasi ATSC tuner. Is a digital but not true HD tuner.

Thank God -


Mr Bob

I recently bought the 51F59 from Circuit City ($699!) and am loving it. Did a few service menu tweaks and it looks great. My question is about the screen. I have a two year old that can get very "handsy" sometimes and likes to touch the screen. What can I use to clean it to get rid of his fingerprints.

I recently bought the 51F59 from Circuit City ($699!) and am loving it. Did a few service menu tweaks and it looks great. My question is about the screen. I have a two year old that can get very "handsy" sometimes and likes to touch the screen. What can I use to clean it to get rid of his fingerprints.
QUICK, while you still have the chance, get rid of the kid. He'll only get bigger, dirtier, and harder to control. Your F59, on the other hand, will continue to serve you faithfully until it's time to bow out to whatever technology survives the current shake-out. By then, the kid would be - whoa - a teenager. Heaven help us all.

Hello, after reading many posts, I'm confused about what I need to calibrate my Hitachi 51F59 HDTV. Can I use the "GetGray" DVD tool or do I need to buy another product? Also, what can I expect to pay to have it calibrated by a technician?
Does this model tv accommodate multiple calibrations for different inputs?

I recently bought the 51F59 from Circuit City ($699!) and am loving it. Did a few service menu tweaks and it looks great. My question is about the screen. I have a two year old that can get very "handsy" sometimes and likes to touch the screen. What can I use to clean it to get rid of his fingerprints.


Fingerprints are the hardest things to get out, because any oily substance sinks right in to the plastic, and usually permanently. My screen contained the oily imprint of Pledge swirls for years after a well meaning house guest tried to help me out on my older Mit 60" while I was not home. She is now banned from the premises, which happened when she would not even begin to consider going into a program over her vodka addiction problem. I gave her the choice, and she made it.

If you try using detergent, make it thinned out/diluted and be sure to end with pure water, prolly distilled would be best. Alcohol MAY work, but may take off the finish. Haven't tried it.

I tried a product Philips put out once, and it turned the entire screen glossy, after successfully cleaning it. Glossy is NOT what we want!

I have heard of something from Monster that is supposed to work.

If it does, please report back and tell us your results.


Mr Bob

Can I use the "GetGray" DVD tool or do I need to buy another product?

GetGray is for digital displays, to the best of my knowledge.
Definitely get The Avia Guide to Home Theater. It is very well regarded here at AVS Forum.

Taking in overscan is the best thing you can do for your pic, and when you do so, make sure if at all possible that a circle looks like a circle when you're done. We can trust AVIA for 480i/p, but it's harder to find a circle on HD.

If you have an Xbox 360 could you make your own circles in photoshop (asuming you're good at making a true circle) or possibly find one on the net and use that to tune the overscan?

Ryan

Question for Lee Bailey (or Mr. Bob, or anyone who knows what I should do):

I am trying to do a DCAM convergence on my set, and I don't have any of the remotes that are displayed in the Hitachi Digital Convergence 2003 manual that you posted. I also don't have the stock remote that came with my 57F59a. I have the one from my old Hitachi 710 series. It is remote number CLU-4341UG2. I kept it when I gave away my old 710, because I liked the remote better... Gave the guy my newer remote. Oops.

OK, so I absolutely CANNOT get ASPECT to do the Rom write. Any ideas for how to use that remote. I'm using the blue button method to enter DCAM, I can move all the lines for adjustment, and all the other functions seem to work OK (although the posted method to get a finer grid doesn't work either. Basically, I have minor blue's out of convergence and I want to get it fixed and written in ROM, because I move the TV a foot or two a lot (every time I take my XBox 360 on the road. Writing it in ROM would let me have a better Magic Focus, right?

Anyway, what am I missing hear? I've read the DIY guide, and it isnt' working for me... can't write to ROM, can't get the "Magic Focus" procedure from within DCAM to work. Oh, and TV, 0, 1 doesnt' turn my TV off in DCAM either. Do I just need a new remote, or can I use the CLU-4341UG2?

I think you've figured out your problem - you're using the wrong remote. I looked online and a replacement remote is >$80, which is ridiculous since you can get a Harmony that controls everything for slightly more than that. Unless you can find one used, a Harmony (I have an 880) may be your best bet. In the meantime, don't use DCAM mode since you can't save your results. The 117 manual adjustment will have to suffice for now.
Michael

If you have an Xbox 360 could you make your own circles in photoshop (asuming you're good at making a true circle) or possibly find one on the net and use that to tune the overscan?

Ryan


Remember, I'm talking strictly 1080i here. 480 is covered by AVIA.

How would you capture a circle in 1080i using the methods you mentioned and play it back on your set?

Those with DVRs can capture the DirecTV test pattern in the wee hours, if they have that sat. It at least has a circle and is good for setting up HD geometry, tho it is useless for overscan reduction.

I have Dish, and don't know of any test pattern that Dish runs.


Mr Bob

Remember, I'm talking strictly 1080i here. 480 is covered by AVIA.

How would you capture a circle in 1080i using the methods you mentioned and play it back on your set?



I'm talking about 1080i as well. I can take an image such as :
HDTV Test Pattern (http://www.itworks.com/hdtv/itworks-HDTV_720P.png)

I can use Photoshop to convert it to 1920 x 1080 (no stretching of course so the circles remain circles) jpg, gif, or whatever and use my Xbox 360 or modded Xbox to display the image on my 51F59A @ 1080i.

Couldn't you use that for tuning the geometry if you try to reduce the overscan?

Ryan

Assuming DirecTV is limiting HDNet's Sunday 6:50 am (ET) test patterns to 1280X1080i, that makes maximum effective horizontal resolution measurements (resolvable detail) worthless, even though many AVSers report measuring <1300 lines/PW effective resolution anyway from many HDNet sources. One member reported (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8509731&&#post8509731) ~1920 lines from a smaller Calif. cable system. -- John

For those with Comcast HD service, INHD/MOJO has been running the INHD Tune Up (Comcast version of the D* HDNet test patterns) for some time. Usually in the wee hours of Sunday mornings (2 or 3 am PST, I believe).

Haven't noticed it on the on screen guide lately, but then I haven't looked for it. Your basic video setup stuff, but the overscan patern is almost usueless. Just gives the "safe title" of 5% oscan and "safe program" of 10%(?). No info dealing with resolution. At least it can be used to check oscan levels (as well as centering of image).

But it is in HD! :) Might be worth it to some.

I'm talking about 1080i as well. I can take an image such as :
HDTV Test Pattern (http://www.itworks.com/hdtv/itworks-HDTV_720P.png)

I can use Photoshop to convert it to 1920 x 1080 (no stretching of course so the circles remain circles) jpg, gif, or whatever and use my Xbox 360 or modded Xbox to display the image on my 51F59A @ 1080i.

Couldn't you use that for tuning the geometry if you try to reduce the overscan?

Ryan


That's a nice pattern. Has a little bit of everything.

Yes, it would be very good for geometry, after o'scan reduc.

Would be just a bit better with another circle in each corner, but who's counting? Looks great! And having all the little squares being equivalent to each other can always be used for linearities rather than circles, in a pinch -


Mr Bob

For those with Comcast HD service, INHD/MOJO has been running the INHD Tune Up (Comcast version of the D* HDNet test patterns) for some time. Usually in the wee hours of Sunday mornings (2 or 3 am PST, I believe).

Haven't noticed it on the on screen guide lately, but then I haven't looked for it. Your basic video setup stuff, but the overscan patern is almost usueless. Just gives the "safe title" of 5% oscan and "safe program" of 10%(?). No info dealing with resolution. At least it can be used to check oscan levels (as well as centering of image).

But it is in HD! :) Might be worth it to some.


Unfortunately, if you have taken in the o'scan to really view the entire HDNet test pattern, you've seen that parts of it are missing at the extreme edges. It doesn't go out to zero and end properly.

As such it's really not accurate for o'scan reduc. No more valuable for that than any other bright image that's true HD. Bright so you can see the ends of the edges against black, when you've taken your o'scan in enough to see those edges. I usually need a flashlight to be able to delineate the end of the image edge vs. the screen frame edge we're using for reference, from my viewing position. Sometimes I just go up there and see for myself, closeup.

But has great circles, for linearity!


Mr Bob

If I remember correctly (it's been deleted from my DVR for some time), the Comcast INHD Tune-Up has a screen for "convergence". The lines are a bit too bright to really be worthwhile (brighter than the AVIA 50/100 IRE grids), but if memory serves, the convergence pattern does have circles. One large one in the middle and smaller ones in each corner. Very similar to some AVIA patterns in this regard.

So if nothing else, it's decent for an HD geometry reference for Comcast users.

And a question for you, Bob. Sorry if I have asked this before, but since the F59s only display either 540p or 1080i (ie. 480i/p gets the 540p treatment--or 1080i, if VHD is set there--and 720p/1080i goes to 1080i), does one only have to worry about one conv/geo job as opposed to one for each display resolution? I have used SD dig cable stuff to check for geo issues with the set's internally generated gray 4:3 pillarbox bars. Conv work has always been with AVIA (both SD via component and HDMI and player upscaled over HDMI) and HD programming. Have gotten the same great conv. results on both SD and HD.

What about DVD sources (like AVIA). Not upscaled to 1080i by a DVD player, but sent either 480i/p to the F59. Would there be a massive difference since either SD or HD material is essentially "resolved" at 1080i or it's mathematical 540p cousin?

Do I even know what the hell I'm talking about? :confused: In my DIY work, I've used AVIA (both @ 480 and upscaled 1080 resolutions) and several HD sources (INHD Tune-Up, various DVR'ed HD programming) and SD DVDs for checking geo/conv.

Again, since the F59s apparently only display 540p/1080i---am I missing something? Not asking due to any apparent PQ issues. Just curious.

And a question for you, Bob. Sorry if I have asked this before, but since the F59s only display either 540p or 1080i (ie. 480i/p gets the 540p treatment--or 1080i, if VHD is set there--and 720p/1080i goes to 1080i), does one only have to worry about one conv/geo job as opposed to one for each display resolution?


While you may need to do geometry on both scanrates, you should do ALL your convergence on 1080i only. It's tighter than 540p. If you do it only on 480/540, when you go to 1080i there will still be some slop.

If you do it on 1080 ONLY, the 480/540 will be automatically covered by what's done on 1080, and will be as tight as it gets. No need to do conv twice, once each on both scanrates. 1080i does it all anyway.


I give a $100 reduction on my secondary scanrate costs when it's the later gen Hit done, where doing the 1080i covers the 480/540. Of course if you have an upconverting 480i->1080i DVDP that you use, and don't watch any regular NTSC tuner channels, you can get away with not doing any secondary scanrates anyway.

Just 1080i, eliminating any secondary scanrate charge at all.


For doing geometry strictly on 4x3 sidebars, use 480/540 for getting those vertical sidebar areas straight, to keep the sidebars straight when they do appear. For full 16x9 images, those areas are not critical, and don't need any special attention. They are only critical on 4x3.

If you watch a lot of 4x3 or are simply highly picky about such things, using actual sidebars for geometry will help keep them as straight as it gets - some bending will still occur due to light level fluctuations, but it can be gotten pretty darn straight using actual sidebars for the geometry. Hanging a blumbob at each sidebar will allow your geometry complete vertical straightness, at least on your mid-light-level static pattern.

But for convergence, do it on 1080i only.


Mr Bob

Always a wellspring of helpful info!

Thanks, Bob.

Always a wellspring of helpful info!

Thanks, Bob.


Let me know when it's time to come down and do your set for you -


Mr Bob

What do you guys think about HD DVD DVE?

Anyone in Utah with a set they're willign to show off? I would love to take a look at your guys' set and compare with mine.

Is there a way to fix focus on one side of the screen? The right ~1/10th of my screen is blurry, mostly noticable when playing games. Convergence is fine (the blurriness is also very noticable when the grid is up). Turning the lenses for focus adjustment will bring that side into focus, obviously while making the rest of the screen blurry. This is my second set. The first set had other problmes, but the focus was even all the way across the screen.

Is there a way to fix focus on one side of the screen? The right ~1/10th of my screen is blurry, mostly noticable when playing games. Convergence is fine (the blurriness is also very noticable when the grid is up). Turning the lenses for focus adjustment will bring that side into focus, obviously while making the rest of the screen blurry. This is my second set. The first set had other problmes, but the focus was even all the way across the screen.


It's called scheimpflug, and it's a very specialized way of evening out the focus on your set, involving the angle at which the lens is placed, in relation to the CRT face and the screen face.

Usually only one lens will be out - the 510 Pioneer had this in spades on the blue, horizontally - and if yours has it on all 3 colors, all 3 lenses will have to be played with.


Mr Bob

Has anyone made a purchase of a factory reconditioned product from Overstock they have the 65f59 and Iam thinking of buying. Any input would be great.

US Appliance has the set NIB, delivered for just a little more. Dave

I recently switched my D*TV receiver from the standard high def to the high def dvr. My image shifts much less frequently (sometimes not at all for hours, other times once every hour or so). I know it has much to do with HDCP compliance, etc. I also recently purchased a Sony 3 LCD unit which I only use for OTA HD and DVD. I have not had an image shift on the DVD yet (using HDMI). I have someone coming out to look at the set later this month for geometry issues. I'm hoping they give me a store credit so I can get the 65".

Also of note, I'm learning PQ is all about source, which in turn dictates settings. My settings for this receiver are dramatically different than for my older receiver.

Ciao

I recently switched my D*TV receiver from the standard high def to the high def dvr. My image shifts much less frequently (sometimes not at all for hours, other times once every hour or so). I know it has much to do with HDCP compliance, etc. I also recently purchased a Sony 3 LCD unit which I only use for OTA HD and DVD. I have not had an image shift on the DVD yet (using HDMI). I have someone coming out to look at the set later this month for geometry issues. I'm hoping they give me a store credit so I can get the 65".

Also of note, I'm learning PQ is all about source, which in turn dictates settings. My settings for this receiver are dramatically different than for my older receiver.

Ciao

Some HDMI stuff causes more issues than others it seems. I never experienced the old HDMI freakouts when I got the Sony NS75H DVD player and hooked it up via HDMI prior to when the first service menu fix became available.

And I still can manage several DVDs in a row w/o the shifting. When it actually does happen, it's still only once per movie and for no more than 2 seconds or so.

Would like to have it fixed (and have been in touch with Hitachi regarding it), but I don't think it'll kill me if it isn't.

Also true about the source. My SD PQ improved greatly when I swapped HDDVRs with Comcast. Went from one Motorola unit (6412) to a newer version (6416 SIII) with a better video processor. HD was unaffected--still looks great. But the "unwatchable" SD from digital cable has been very nice to look at. Even the 2-99 "analog" channels.

Question for Lee Bailey (or Mr. Bob, or anyone who knows what I should do):

I am trying to do a DCAM convergence on my set, and I don't have any of the remotes that are displayed in the Hitachi Digital Convergence 2003 manual that you posted. I also don't have the stock remote that came with my 57F59a. I have the one from my old Hitachi 710 series. It is remote number CLU-4341UG2. I kept it when I gave away my old 710, because I liked the remote better... Gave the guy my newer remote. Oops.

OK, so I absolutely CANNOT get ASPECT to do the Rom write. Any ideas for how to use that remote. I'm using the blue button method to enter DCAM, I can move all the lines for adjustment, and all the other functions seem to work OK (although the posted method to get a finer grid doesn't work either. Basically, I have minor blue's out of convergence and I want to get it fixed and written in ROM, because I move the TV a foot or two a lot (every time I take my XBox 360 on the road. Writing it in ROM would let me have a better Magic Focus, right?

Anyway, what am I missing hear? I've read the DIY guide, and it isnt' working for me... can't write to ROM, can't get the "Magic Focus" procedure from within DCAM to work. Oh, and TV, 0, 1 doesnt' turn my TV off in DCAM either. Do I just need a new remote, or can I use the CLU-4341UG2?


This is how I was able to write to ROM and found this out by accident:

Press and hold TV
Press MENU then release
Press INFO then release
release TV
Press ASPECT and then "Write to ROM?" will appear
Press ASPECT again and it write. Green dots appear.

:cool:

I recently purchased the HD D2 Hi definition DVD player and have it running via HDMI to my 57f59. When the scenes are bright when displaying HD/SD the colors are vibrant and seem to come to life, but during scenes of darkness or low light, the PQ gets grainy. Is this normal?

My settings are:
Contrast-40 ( usually set to 38, but the D2 displays a bit dark)
Brightness- 50
Color-50
Sharpness-50 (should this be lower?)
Tint-center
all enhancements off
Color temp-standard

Does anyone with this set own the D2? Its on sale at Costco for $249 and I love it so far, except for the darker scenes..

Question for Lee Bailey (or Mr. Bob, or anyone who knows what I should do):

I am trying to do a DCAM convergence on my set, and I don't have any of the remotes that are displayed in the Hitachi Digital Convergence 2003 manual that you posted. I also don't have the stock remote that came with my 57F59a. I have the one from my old Hitachi 710 series. It is remote number CLU-4341UG2. I kept it when I gave away my old 710, because I liked the remote better... Gave the guy my newer remote. Oops.

OK, so I absolutely CANNOT get ASPECT to do the Rom write. Any ideas for how to use that remote. I'm using the blue button method to enter DCAM, I can move all the lines for adjustment, and all the other functions seem to work OK (although the posted method to get a finer grid doesn't work either. Basically, I have minor blue's out of convergence and I want to get it fixed and written in ROM, because I move the TV a foot or two a lot (every time I take my XBox 360 on the road. Writing it in ROM would let me have a better Magic Focus, right?

Anyway, what am I missing hear? I've read the DIY guide, and it isnt' working for me... can't write to ROM, can't get the "Magic Focus" procedure from within DCAM to work. Oh, and TV, 0, 1 doesnt' turn my TV off in DCAM either. Do I just need a new remote, or can I use the CLU-4341UG2?

This is how I was able to write to ROM and found this out by accident:

Press and hold TV
Press MENU then release
Press INFO then release
release TV
Press ASPECT and then "Write to ROM?" will appear
Press ASPECT again and it write. Green dots appear.

:cool:

True. They don't cover this clearly (at all?) in the service manual. I have found that toggling btwn both remote "modes" must be done for certain DCAM functions, not just ROM Write. When accessing DCAM via remote, I have to press/hold TV, then press 0, then 1 (the "power on/off" operation) after entering DCAM just to make adjustments. The above mentioned remote command sequence allows ROM Write as well as the ability to access the mode that allows fine adjustment along the edges of the screen.

Keep in mind on the Hitachis (Mr Bob mentioned this--having done more than a few Hits in his day--and I have found it to be true) that when writing DCAM info to memory, go back and check conv agains actual video (not just the DCAM grid). For some reason, Hits seem to need a few passes of ROM write to get all adjustments to "stick". When I have done DCAM tweaks, I write 'em, then recheck against ext video (AVIA grids or actual DVR'ed HDTV programming). Occasionally find a few spots that need to be retouched. This process can take 5-6 attempts. But the results are worth the extra time.

I recently purchased the HD D2 Hi definition DVD player and have it running via HDMI to my 57f59. When the scenes are bright when displaying HD/SD the colors are vibrant and seem to come to life, but during scenes of darkness or low light, the PQ gets grainy. Is this normal?

My settings are:
Contrast-40 ( usually set to 38, but the D2 displays a bit dark)
Brightness- 50
Color-50
Sharpness-50 (should this be lower?)
Tint-center
all enhancements off
Color temp-standard

Does anyone with this set own the D2? Its on sale at Costco for $249 and I love it so far, except for the darker scenes..

Is this the case on everything played thru the D2? Does the D2 have it's own "picture menu", perhaps with sharpness or noise reduction settings?

Might want to check the HD-DVD threads as well to see if other D2 users have noticed this on other TVs. Could be that the extra detail is showing the film grain on certain movies.(?)

Have you tried the D2 via component? Since they will output 1080i over component (just won't upscale SD DVD), you may want to compare that to the HDMI signal to see if the grain is still an issue. May also want to try lowering the F59 sharpness a tad. Never had a D2 hooked up to my set, but my brother in law has brought over his PS3 a few times. Watched a couple of BluRay discs (1st PIRATES and XMEN3) and noticed that my set's sharpness needed to come down about 6-7 clicks to take away some extra EE.

what color temp is the "Std" setting? The "Medium" setting? Manual just says Medium is Natural, and Standard is Accurate.

What would be the best light bulb to put in the lamp behind my set? I have a "reveal" bulb at the moment.

Need help please.

Bought 51F59 a month ago, just bought an HDMI cable to connect to my HD box, see no pictures at all after plugging in the HDMI and select INPUT 1, what is wrong? Working fine using component cable to input 4. Thanks.

Need help please.

Bought 51F59 a month ago, just bought an HDMI cable to connect to my HD box, see no pictures at all after plugging in the HDMI and select INPUT 1, what is wrong? Working fine using component cable to input 4. Thanks.

Could be the HDMI cable. Try another if you can.

If not the cable, what HD box are you using? I know some cable boxes may not have their HDMI outs switched "on" (was the case for some Comcast/Motorola HDDVR users).

Can you find someone with some other HDMI gear (DVD player, etc) to try?

If that doesn't work, call for warranty service. May have a bad input on your set.

Need help please.

Bought 51F59 a month ago, just bought an HDMI cable to connect to my HD box, see no pictures at all after plugging in the HDMI and select INPUT 1, what is wrong? Working fine using component cable to input 4. Thanks.

When you switch to INPUT 1, does it momentarily show DIGITAL? If not, the set is not seeing any signal on the HDMI input. Do you have an upconverting DVD player with HDMI to use for test purposes?

Can anyone give me a walk through on how to remove the screen on my 65f59. Thanks.

what color temp is the "Std" setting? The "Medium" setting? Manual just says Medium is Natural, and Standard is Accurate.

What would be the best light bulb to put in the lamp behind my set? I have a "reveal" bulb at the moment.


Color temp settings can be all over the map, on CRT RPTVs. I am firmly of the opinion that they include several in the vain hope that at least ONE of them will be close to D6500K.

The one that is closest to the look of an overcast sky on a cloudy day is going to be the one closest to D6500K. No other color temps are really necessary for today's video content, SD or HD.

In the service manual for Hitachis, they ONLY talk about D10,500K for HIGH. They don't even mention D6t500K, the industry standard.


Mr Bob


PS - I like halogen bulbs for backlighting. I like their golden, sun-like glow when dimmed.

I recently purchased the HD D2 Hi definition DVD player and have it running via HDMI to my 57f59. When the scenes are bright when displaying HD/SD the colors are vibrant and seem to come to life, but during scenes of darkness or low light, the PQ gets grainy. Is this normal?

My settings are:
Contrast-40 ( usually set to 38, but the D2 displays a bit dark)
Brightness- 50
Color-50
Sharpness-50 (should this be lower?)
Tint-center
all enhancements off
Color temp-standard

Does anyone with this set own the D2? Its on sale at Costco for $249 and I love it so far, except for the darker scenes..

I've had the same problem since I got my set, not with HD DVD, just HD in general. Nothing has helped, not even professional calibration. I don't know if the problem is in the source material or if it's just a weakness of this particular set. I think you just have to live with it. You don't notice it as much after a time, in the beginning I was almost looking for it.

Never experienced this with my 51.

Source issues, perhaps? Although I'd think source would be a bigger issue with cable/sat/OTA HD than with HDDVD/BR.

I've had the same problem since I got my set, not with HD DVD, just HD in general. Nothing has helped, not even professional calibration. I don't know if the problem is in the source material or if it's just a weakness of this particular set. I think you just have to live with it. You don't notice it as much after a time, in the beginning I was almost looking for it.


If you have ever worked with film cameras, and have used low light high speed camera film, you have seen this in action already.

Once I bought 4 different speeds of film, all the way from 100 to 1000, intent on using them each for their intended purpose. But all of a sudden needed all 4 rolls for a project, that would take place all inside of an hour.

The lighting never changed, yet the prints shot on the 1000 speed film were horribly grainy compared to those shot on 100 speed, which contained no noticeable grain at all. They were all of the same subject material, and all with the same lighting.

I am sure lots of the stuff we see in HD was shot on movie film, which is no different. I don't think a whole lot of stuff is yet shot in HD, tho it is coming. Just nowhere near a preponderance at this time, as far as I can see.

Now whether HD cameras produce grainy pix in low light I really don't know. But digital video cameras these days can shoot in very low light already, as their CCDs have become more and more low lux cat's eye sensitive as the years have gone by.


Mr Bob

If you have ever worked with film cameras, and have used low light high speed camera film, you have seen this in action already.

Once I bought 4 different speeds of film, all the way from 100 to 1000, intent on using them each for their intended purpose. But all of a sudden needed all 4 rolls for a project, that would take place all inside of an hour.

The lighting never changed, yet the prints shot on the 1000 speed film were horribly grainy compared to those shot on 100 speed, which contained no noticeable grain at all. They were all of the same subject material, and all with the same lighting.

I am sure lots of the stuff we see in HD was shot on movie film, which is no different. I don't think a whole lot of stuff is yet shot in HD, tho it is coming. Just nowhere near a preponderance at this time, as far as I can see.

Now whether HD cameras produce grainy pix in low light I really don't know. But digital video cameras these days can shoot in very low light already, as their CCDs have become more and more low lux cat's eye sensitive as the years have gone by.


Mr Bob

Was also thinking this, Bob. When I see (mainly) older movies in HD, the grain is more obvious than with more recent films. Nature docs of PBS, NGC, Discovery, etc (and some of the IMAX stuff Comcast runs) tend to be "grainier" sometimes. Still pretty, though.

As far as movies shot digitally, Star Wars Ep II has some issues with what could be called "grain" or noise in a couple of darker scenes (Padme's apt prior to the speeder chase and some of the lightsaber fight stuff) that, according to reviews at the time, were due to minor limitations in these areas with the digital "film" (OK, 24p HD video) and cameras Lucas used. By the time of EpIII, these issues appear to have been resolved.

Was also thinking this, Bob. When I see (mainly) older movies in HD, the grain is more obvious than with more recent films. Nature docs of PBS, NGC, Discovery, etc (and some of the IMAX stuff Comcast runs) tend to be "grainier" sometimes. Still pretty, though.

As far as movies shot digitally, Star Wars Ep II has some issues with what could be called "grain" or noise in a couple of darker scenes (Padme's apt prior to the speeder chase and some of the lightsaber fight stuff) that, according to reviews at the time, were due to minor limitations in these areas with the digital "film" (OK, 24p HD video) and cameras Lucas used. By the time of EpIII, these issues appear to have been resolved.


Lucas was blown away by what he saw in the digital domain of HD, and what could be done with special effects when the transfers stayed all digital and never had to be converted to/from movie film.

His decision to shoot all of Ep II in digital 1080p HD was fresh and completely new, had never been done before. As such, the cams he used/needed were pretty much all proprietary and custom built for that purpose at that time in HD's evolution. There were not many production units of that grade of camera yet, if at all. By Ep III, of course, production of that grade of HD cam had caught up.

I noticed a lot of convergence errors at the edges in Ep II, which were not there in Ep III. You could almost tell which proprietary cams were used for which scenes.


Mr Bob

Lucas was blown away by what he saw in the digital domain of HD, and what could be done with special effects when the transfers stayed all digital and never had to be converted to/from movie film.

His decision to shoot all of Ep II in digital 1080p HD was fresh and completely new, had never been done before. As such, the cams he used/needed were pretty much all proprietary and custom built for that purpose at that time in HD's evolution. There were not many production units of that grade of camera yet, if at all. By Ep III, of course, production of that grade of HD cam had caught up.

I noticed a lot of convergence errors at the edges in Ep II, which were not there in Ep III. You could almost tell which proprietary cams were used for which scenes.


Mr Bob

Here's the challenge, Bob (Sorry to jack the F59 thread with SW stuff :D ).....can you spot the small handful of shots in EP I that were shot digitally. Lucas wanted to do PHANTOM MENACE all digital, but the cameras that Sony had built were even further back in the protptype stages. Did manage to shoot a few location/soundstage scenes with them, but has apparently never stated which ones they were.

Guessing they may be some of the more serious bluescreen shots, but I have yet to see definitively.

what color temp is the "Std" setting? The "Medium" setting? Manual just says Medium is Natural, and Standard is Accurate.

General feeling is that color temp "should" be 6500. In practice, what looks "warm" to you may be too yellow for me. Use an image with lots of faces, preferably with different skin tones, and try all three. See what you like and live with it for a while. Though I hate to admit it here, I use "high."
This image (hopefully attached, called "ColorTemp.jpg) is from a disc that was distributed free (thanks DealNews) from 3M called "Vikuiti LCD Setup Guide."

Anyone know something that is safe to clean the screen with, becuase there is some dust and marks on the screen that I can't see from far away, but wouldn't like to have there. Plus I had some problems with my sister which ended in her throwing a live vision cam at the screen which may have loosened the screen is there a way for me to make the screen tighter?

Sorry to sidetrack but I need some quick help with my 57F59.

I need the newest software update which Hitachi said was version 1.40..but he wouldn't send it until I told him the exact version I have loaded...I know it's 1.3 but he wouldn't budge.

My TV is about 6 months old btw.

Does anyone have the EXACT software version number available so I can call them back??

Thanks!

UPDATE:

I found the version number buried in another thread...

Sadly I called back to get what I was told was version 1.4 and the nice lady at Hitachi tells me.."sorry sir, 1.3 is the latest"....I asked her why a guy named Madison told me he'll mail me version 1.4 when I call back in and this version could help with HDMI issues...she apologized and that was about it.


So IS there a version 1.4???

Haven't heard about a V 1.4.

However, if a Hit rep mentioned it to you, perhaps a fix for the HDMI image shift is done/coming.

Not surprised that you got diff answers from diff CSRs. I'd keep calling/emailing and see if you can either find the guy who told you about V1.4 or happen upon someone else who does.

If the original CSR told you he'd send it to you (onve you determined your set's version), was he claiming he'd send you an upgrade card to plug into your set (then send back to Hit)?

I emailed their website customer service and explained my confusion...will report back if I ever get an answer.

Anyone know something that is safe to clean the screen with, becuase there is some dust and marks on the screen that I can't see from far away, but wouldn't like to have there. Plus I had some problems with my sister which ended in her throwing a live vision cam at the screen which may have loosened the screen is there a way for me to make the screen tighter?



If your sis threw a cam at the screen, there are prolly marks on it that won't ever come off.

I doubt that it would have loosened the screen. They are very tightly screwed in there, to the frame. The lenticular is very flimsy, tho, and if you see ripples in it, it may have to be reseated, which means loosening the screws holding in the fresnel/lenticular sandwich, reseating both properly, and tightening them up again.

Whatever you use for cleaning, be wary of residues, which that lenticular is famous for gathering. Finish up with something that will not leave residues, if such a solution exists.


Mr Bob

My 51f59a did something strange the other night. I was watching with the HD DVR thru an Monoprice 3x1 HDMI switch and my screen got *super* bright white and the TV turned off. when I hit the power button it didn't turn on right away. after about 30 seconds it came back on and was fine the rest of the night.

I've never had the HDMI shift issue thru the DVR or my Denon 2910 DVD Player. Hard to call repair if it's working. It's about 30 days old from CC.

My 51f59a did something strange the other night. I was watching with the HD DVR thru an Monoprice 3x1 HDMI switch and my screen got *super* bright white and the TV turned off. when I hit the power button it didn't turn on right away. after about 30 seconds it came back on and was fine the rest of the night.

I've never had the HDMI shift issue thru the DVR or my Denon 2910 DVD Player. Hard to call repair if it's working. It's about 30 days old from CC.

Guessing you did not apply the "old" HDMI fix to your set yet? The symptoms (screen color/level weirdness and mystery power offs) sound like some of the classics us F59 owners experienced in the past prior to Hitachi's software update solution released back in Jan/Feb of this year.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9668868&&#post9668868

That's the link to the post here that gives instructions to apply the HDMI fix (but not a shift fix--hasn't come down the pike yet) in the service menu.

Some of the more recently sold F59s had this fix already implemented at the factory, according to some users. Yours however may not have. Would need to go into the service menu and see which software version is current on your set:

From the above linked post:

When you first enter the SM, where it says SERVICE, SUB BRIGHT, etc, there should be a code to the right of the ADJUST MODE DP6X. Prior to the fix, it should have said "V019" (white). If the fix took, it should now say "V195" (magenta).

If you first enter the sm and see that your software version is V109 in white text, then the old fix has not been implemented. If it reads V195 in magenta text, it has (and if the TV is still freaking out, then I don't know what to tell ya other than get Hitachi warranty on it ASAP).

Prior to applying the old fix, my set never experienced any issues via HDMI (use a Sony NS75H DVD player on mine) other than the very occasional shift, which still happens once in a blue moon. Others had all kinds of HDMI troubles that are mentioned in the service bulletin that the fix came from.

No I never applied the HDMI fix since I never had a problem... until now. I'll have to go into the service menu and see if it's been done. thanks for that.

General feeling is that color temp "should" be 6500. In practice, what looks "warm" to you may be too yellow for me. Use an image with lots of faces, preferably with different skin tones, and try all three. See what you like and live with it for a while. Though I hate to admit it here, I use "high."
This image (hopefully attached, called "ColorTemp.jpg) is from a disc that was distributed free (thanks DealNews) from 3M called "Vikuiti LCD Setup Guide."


So which setting is supposed to be 6500? Standard?

I have to figure out how to get into the Service Menu now to see if my HDMI fix has been applied.

Hitachi will provide updated software for our sets?

So which setting is supposed to be 6500? Standard?

I have to figure out how to get into the Service Menu now to see if my HDMI fix has been applied.

Hitachi will provide updated software for our sets?


Check out post #925, one page back from here.


Mr Bob

General feeling is that color temp "should" be 6500. In practice, what looks "warm" to you may be too yellow for me. Use an image with lots of faces, preferably with different skin tones, and try all three. See what you like and live with it for a while. Though I hate to admit it here, I use "high."
This image (hopefully attached, called "ColorTemp.jpg) is from a disc that was distributed free (thanks DealNews) from 3M called "Vikuiti LCD Setup Guide."


Sorry, that pic is worthless for grayscale/color temp, as it is a color picture. You have to have a b/w pattern to check your grayscale. Color is colod decoding, which is an entirely different animal from grayscale. Grayscale is strictly b/w.


Mr Bob

So which setting is supposed to be 6500? Standard?

I have to figure out how to get into the Service Menu now to see if my HDMI fix has been applied.

Hitachi will provide updated software for our sets?

Standard would likely be closest, although the service manual only list the High temp level of 10,500K. Warm and Std values are not listed and are probably all over the map

To access the service menu:

Hold down MENU button on front of set and press MENU, then 8, then SELECT on the F59 remote. The first page of parameters will appear. The software version currently running will apear to the right of the text ADJUST MODE DP6X as V###. If that reads V195 in pink/magenta text, yourset is running the most recent version (from the "old" HDMI fix). Sets w/o this fix read V019 in white text.

Hitachi has supplied updates for the F59s before. The aforementioned HDMI software fix, that can be implemented in the service menu, was issued as a Service Bulletin back in January to all authorized Hitachi service centers. These sets also have card slots for possible software/firmware updates that Hitachi would/could send out--on cards that plug into the set and accessed via the Upgrades section of the normal user menu. Seem to recall some being sent out in the early days of the F59 line, but nothing since as the firmware's current version has been part of the line since that time. If such updates were to happen again, and you want to be included, you must register the set with Hitachi warranty. Either with the enclsoed warranty card or via their website. Generally, a small amount of upgrade cards are made and then mailed out to users, who then return them to Hitachi after use so they can be distributed to other F59 users.

If a shift issue fix gets done, I would not be surprised if it ends up a service menu adjustment like the last HDMI solution than as an upgrade card.

Here's the challenge, Bob (Sorry to jack the F59 thread with SW stuff :D ).....can you spot the small handful of shots in EP I that were shot digitally. Lucas wanted to do PHANTOM MENACE all digital, but the cameras that Sony had built were even further back in the protptype stages. Did manage to shoot a few location/soundstage scenes with them, but has apparently never stated which ones they were.

Guessing they may be some of the more serious bluescreen shots, but I have yet to see definitively.


Just had a chance to see last half of Ep I the other day - ran across it while surfing the HD channels - and it was noticeably softer than Ep's II and III from 2 weeks ago, at least on Dish HD in MPEG 4.

Unfortunately I was distracted - again! - by those eye-popping outfits she was wearing, and the incredible colors Lucas used, and didn't even think about that smattering of effects you mentioned. I do remember that my roomie saw it in DLP, and said the chief differences he saw between all digital projection and film transfer pj was in the light sabre battles.

Will have to wait till next time. I DID see what I wanted to see, of course...

:rolleyes:


Mr Bob

Check out post #925, one page back from here.


Mr Bob

thanks, i missed that. will look for some sort of halogen lamp for the backlight soon.

thanks, i missed that. will look for some sort of halogen lamp for the backlight soon.


Make sure it's dimmable.

Joe Kane says to run backlights at about 10% of the light level of your display's pic.


Mr Bob

Hello All!

I'm still looking for any information on how to enter the ISF MODE and use the adjustments that are there. Any help would really be appreciated.

Hello All!

I'm still looking for any information on how to enter the ISF MODE and use the adjustments that are there. Any help would really be appreciated.


I thought you had a Sony!

If the older version, turn your set off, then WITHIN 3 SECONDS, hold the Menu button on the front of the set in, while turning the TV on again, both on front panel.

That time between CAN'T be allowed to be more than 3 seconds, or it won't work and you'll have to try again.


Mr Bob

If the older version, turn your set off, then WITHIN 3 SECONDS, hold the Menu button on the front of the set in, while turning the TV on again, both on front panel.
That time between CAN'T be allowed to be more than 3 seconds, or it won't work and you'll have to try again.
Mr Bob
If I remember my readings of the original thread correctly, that used to provide access to the service menu. There are easier and more predictable ways of doing that now, and Lee's already there. ISF MODE is an option in the service menu that doesn't seem to do anything and is not mentioned at all in the service manual, which leads me to believe that it is just a leftover menu option. Besides, Lee, what could you possibly want to do there that you haven't already done from TA1360?! (For which, by the way, we all remain extremely grateful.)

Just want to see if it has anything extra. When I contacted Hitachi about it, they would not give me the information to access it. They treated it like there should be no reason to ISF their TVs.

Just want to see if it has anything extra. When I contacted Hitachi about it, they would not give me the information to access it. They treated it like there should be no reason to ISF their TVs.


Not surprising. They don't even mention D6500K in their service manual. All they mention is D10,500K for Cool color temp.

Referencing industry standards does not apply to Hitachis, I guess, at their end...


Good thing we can take control of all that and restore them to industry standards, they are obviously not interested in doing so -


Mr Bob

Sorry if this is not the most appropriate place to post this, but seems to be relevant to the topic of the thread...

I need a tweak that will cut down my contrast. My highest whites are blinding, even at 0 contrast setting and I do not know what to tweak to reduce this. Bright whites have no detail, total wash out. Everything else looks good after following many tweaks here, but somewhere along the way I got some serious contrast into my 65F59. To keep from being blinded, I have to turn off the contrast (setting of 0 in the basic menu) and turn brightness way down. So, now I have a rather dark picture except bright whites! Any specific areas of tweak know to affect this area of PQ would be great. I'm pretty new to this and know only enough to follow the directions of those here. Thanks for your advice and time.

Sorry if this is not the most appropriate place to post this, but seems to be relevant to the topic of the thread...

I need a tweak that will cut down my contrast. My highest whites are blinding, even at 0 contrast setting and I do not know what to tweak to reduce this. Bright whites have no detail, total wash out. Everything else looks good after following many tweaks here, but somewhere along the way I got some serious contrast into my 65F59. To keep from being blinded, I have to turn off the contrast (setting of 0 in the basic menu) and turn brightness way down. So, now I have a rather dark picture except bright whites! Any specific areas of tweak know to affect this area of PQ would be great. I'm pretty new to this and know only enough to follow the directions of those here. Thanks for your advice and time.


I feel these registers in there out, whenever I am in sm. Whatever the regs that would help you are, they will prolly have "Cont" in them.

DCUcont will not be it, as this affects only the grids, but is very helpful for redoing your own convergence in user, as is DCUbright. The grids they equip us with OOB are hopelessly thick from being way too bright. These 2 tone them down, back to a really fine set of lines, grids we can really use.

But I would have to be inside to tell you the exact regs you need here.

If you kept accurate records of where everything was before you started, you should be able to backtrack to whatever it was you changed, to make this thing happen. After all, you had to hit Select to make any of those changes inside sm stick, for when you came out. And each reg changed requires its own Select punch, it is not a global mem process, like it is in a Mit. Pio mem's all such changes even without a mem punch, but Hit requires each change to be individually punched, in terms of Select.

Each time you do that, it is a permanent change. There is no way back to where you started, other than your own bread crumbs. That's why we have said since before HDready:

ALWAYS RECORD YOUR STARTING POINTS BEFORE CHANGING ANYTHING.


Mr Bob

Just so other never do as I did, here's more background. And all you AV pros, can laugh, but I'm telling this so that it migh help another who's new to this. My problem results from getting B A D advice elsewhere online which suggested that rather than manually restoring a bunch of changed settings I had written down, to just use the FACT RESET !!!!!!!! The guy says he did so and had no negative affects. Maybe he was lucky, dumb, partially blind or all of the above... it totally nuked my settings before I found this educated forum. Dumb on my part too, looking back, but all I can do is learn from it and rebuild. It obviously changed things that id did NOT have written down. Now I've found this group, and know I can actually trust the posts. Moral of the story, use only advice that you know you can trust!

PLEASE... Any owners of this model have experience with this, advice, or is there a complete list of all the properly clibrated settings somewhere so that I can start over? Anyone that can somehow share their settings? I know there's a $%& load of them, but maybe some screen shots could be done. I don't know, I'm desperate. I've put back in everything I had written down, as I at least knew to document every change I made, but it's all those other settings that I never changed that need to be restored as the FACT RESET nuked 'em. Any and all help will be extremely appreciated.

Just so other never do as I did, here's more background. And all you AV pros, can laugh, but I'm telling this so that it migh help another who's new to this. My problem results from getting B A D advice elsewhere online which suggested that rather than manually restoring a bunch of changed settings I had written down, to just use the FACT RESET !!!!!!!! The guy says he did so and had no negative affects. Maybe he was lucky, dumb, partially blind or all of the above... it totally nuked my settings before I found this educated forum. Dumb on my part too, looking back, but all I can do is learn from it and rebuild. It obviously changed things that id did NOT have written down. Now I've found this group, and know I can actually trust the posts. Moral of the story, use only advice that you know you can trust!

PLEASE... Any owners of this model have experience with this, advice, or is there a complete list of all the properly clibrated settings somewhere so that I can start over? Anyone that can somehow share their settings? I know there's a $%& load of them, but maybe some screen shots could be done. I don't know, I'm desperate. I've put back in everything I had written down, as I at least knew to document every change I made, but it's all those other settings that I never changed that need to be restored as the FACT RESET nuked 'em. Any and all help will be extremely appreciated.

Others have had the same thing happen as you. Both FACT RESET & MEM INIT (memory initialize) in the F59 service menu will "nuke" your TV's user and service parameters.

Have seen here in the past (on this very thread, in fact) that the list of factory service menu settings toward the end of the F59 service manual actually differ from what some of the parameters reset to when one or the other sm foobars like yours occurs. If you have the service manual, you may want to check all the parameters listed there to see where they lie and what to change them to if needed. There are A LOT of settings to check thru...so you may want to set a big chunk of time aside or do it piecemeal.

The DIY Guide posted early on this thread has the typical range of user video settings and some common sm tweaks that are used by folks here. All info for that was compiled from settings listings posted on the AVS Forums by other F59 users. Every TV-even 2 of the same make/model-differ slightly. One person's perfect settings may not be so for you. Viewing environment and type/source of video material viewed also play into the variation btwn sets. Same would go for any post-calibration settings, too.

In fact, the vast majority of "required info" is found on the first several pages of this thread - DIY Guide, an offical Hitachi DCAM Pocket Guide, user convergence tips, the infamous HDMI fix, overscan & geometry adjustment/fixes tips, downloadable conv/geo screen jig templates, focus adjustment tips....you name it.

At this point, I say do a little digging back on this thread and round up as much info as you can. With all that you should--with a little work--find your own perfect settings!


....or hire someone like Mr Bob to come and do it for you right the first time (had to give Bob a shout-out....a true asset to us CRT owners here!)

Have seen here in the past (on this very thread, in fact) that the list of factory service menu settings toward the end of the F59 service manual actually differ from what some of the parameters reset to when one or the other sm foobars like yours occurs. If you have the service manual, you may want to check all the parameters listed there to see where they lie and what to change them to if needed. There are A LOT of settings to check thru...so you may want to set a big chunk of time aside or do it piecemeal.

Thanks. I really assumed that the settings from the Factory service manual were the same that my set had been reset to from the FACT RESET. So, are these settings in the manual the more tweaked settings rather than just the factory shipped settings? That'd be great, and I have no problem spending a day checking each and every one if that's the case. Thanks again.

This is the most recent thread on Hitachis here at AVS, but at least 3 preceded it, and are still around, just do a search. This one has some of the best info available, thanks to Jwebb, who I believe started it, but others did come before him, and there's good info on those other threads as well.


Mr Bob

Also find the link (sorry I don't know it offhand) to download the service manual. Less than $20 and full of useful (mostly) info.
There is a post of mine somewhere with a couple of registers that were different from the service manual, so, as Mr. Bob advised, write down your current settings so you can at least get back to something.
Fortunately, you can't really break anything.
Good luck.

Would a few of you mind sharing with me the following figures from your own settings? (private messages are fine if you don't want them posted) My goal is to see how much variation there is between each tv, where the most variations are, find a high and low range to work within, and better understand and tweak these specific settings. Feel free to PM me, and know that I will not repost any of your info. Again, this is for learning about the variations between sets, and to find a range to work within. It will take only a few minutes of time and could save me a lot of time and give me some good data to work off of. The more examples I get the better!

WHITE BALANCE HIGH
WHITE BALANCE MEDIUM
WHITE BALANCE STD

WHITE BALANCE high.....med.....std
GREEN DRV.........___......___.....___
RED DRV ...........___......___.....___
RED CUT ...........___......___.....___
GREEN CUT.........___......___.....___
BLUE CUT ..........___......___.....___

My sincere thanks

Would a few of you mind sharing with me the following figures from your own settings? (private messages are fine if you don't want them posted) My goal is to see how much variation there is between each tv, where the most variations are, find a high and low range to work within, and better understand and tweak these specific settings. Feel free to PM me, and know that I will not repost any of your info. Again, this is for learning about the variations between sets, and to find a range to work within. It will take only a few minutes of time and could save me a lot of time and give me some good data to work off of. The more examples I get the better!

WHITE BALANCE HIGH
WHITE BALANCE MEDIUM
WHITE BALANCE STD

WHITE BALANCE high.....med.....std
GREEN DRV.........___......___.....___
RED DRV ...........___......___.....___
RED CUT ...........___......___.....___
GREEN CUT.........___......___.....___
BLUE CUT ..........___......___.....___

My sincere thanks


While I applaud your efforts, only STD is really valuable to do. There is really no reason to do any other color temp, if you're calibrating.

If you're trying to find which of the color temps the factory gets closest to D6500K, this might help. But even b/w video material - like the original Casablanca - looks best in D6500K, so no other color temp is important.

I have always been a firm believer that they give us 3 color temps to choose from in the vain hope that ONE of them MIGHT be somewhat close to D6500K!

That's the only reason I can see for having 3 of them.


Mr Bob

only STD is really valuable to do. There is really no reason to do any other color temp, if you're calibrating.

I have definitely read here that changing one color temp then affects the other two. Is that not true then? If they do not affect each others settings, then I may need only one set of data from a few people (STD color temp settings)...

I have definitely read here that changing one color temp then affects the other two. Is that not true then? If they do not affect each others settings, then I may need only one set of data from a few people (STD color temp settings)...


Doesn't matter. It's still the only one you need.


Mr Bob

Doesn't matter. It's still the only one you need.


Mr Bob
In that case, in order, the default values are 50, 55, 7F, 7F, 7F.
Lee suggests changing G drive from 50 to 57.

Yeah, she didn't put any marks on the tv from that, it seemed like the screen was a little loose like if i touched it, but nothing like it was going to fall off, it's pretty sturdy the way it is.

what does the G drive do i did all the things in the hitachi DIY Guide and i did not see that and were is it in the service menu.


Thank you

In that case, in order, the default values are 50, 55, 7F, 7F, 7F.
Lee suggests changing G drive from 50 to 57.

Be aware, that I used a colorimeter and a program called CALMAN to set up my grayscale. Also, my settings will not necessarily work on another TV. My contrast settings are probably different than yours, which also changes the grayscale settings. One of the reasons my Contrast is down at 20% was because Blue was running out of steam up at the 90+ IRE area, and bumping it up would cause issues with the mid and low IRE levels. Sorta created an 'S' curve on me.

Though my contrast at 20% is still plenty bright, without crushing the whites at the high end.

Be aware, that I used a colorimeter and a program called CALMAN to set up my grayscale. Also, my settings will not necessarily work on another TV. My contrast settings are probably different than yours, which also changes the grayscale settings. One of the reasons my Contrast is down at 20% was because Blue was running out of steam up at the 90+ IRE area, and bumping it up would cause issues with the mid and low IRE levels. Sorta created an 'S' curve on me.

Though my contrast at 20% is still plenty bright, without crushing the whites at the high end.

That's actually the problem I'm having... my high end whites are all washed out, no detail. I've been battling it for a week, with only minimal improvement. My contrast is actually on 5%, and yet the high whites are blinding and without detail. Quite frustrating as the other areas of the pq look good.

OK...not an actual list of codes.

But if you wish to set up a "learning" universal remote such as a Logitech/Harmony or similar product that allows for "learning" of other remotes keypad functions via IR signal, this list will help. Puts F59 remote in "discrete" mode, changing the layout of the F59 remote. The list of buttons below will activate specific funtions, including DIRECT access to inputs--no more scrolling thru the input list!

Used the input "codes" last night on my old ONE FOR ALL learning/macro remote. Haven't used macros since getiing my F59, since up until now I did not know you could get direct inout access. Now, like in the past, 1 button gives me direct input access and sets up any/all AV gear to the specific function selected. Nice featre to have back.

Anyway, enough of my yappin'. Thanks to riotstarter for posting this on the 57F59A thread.


I went though and tested each button on the F59 remote, there are some differences from the .pdf on the Hitachi site, here are all the discrete functions available using the discrete mode.


Code:
To get to discrete mode:
While holding down the TV key press MENU and
then LAST CH.

ASPECT ---------------16:9 STANDARD
PIP -------------------- 16:9 ZOOM
6----------------------- 4:3 EXPANDED
DAY/NIGHT ---------- 4:3 STANDARD
7----------------------- 4:3 ZOOM1
8----------------------- 4:3 ZOOM2
VOL DOWN----------- Input Air
CHAN DOWN--------- Closed Captioning Cycle (On/Off/Auto)
MENU------------------ DAY
EXIT--------------------NIGHT
0------------------------POWER OFF
(-) ----------------------POWER ON
POWER --------------- POWER TOGGLE
1 -----------------------INPUT 1
2 ----------------------- INPUT 2
3 ----------------------- INPUT 3
4 ----------------------- INPUT 4
5 ----------------------- INPUT 5
INFO-------------------VIRTUALHD 1080i
GUIDE----------------- VIRTUALHD 540p
LAST CH--------------- VIRTUALHD TOGGLE

To exit discrete mode, hold TV button, press 0, then 1, then release TV. This puts the F59 remote back to "normal" (and will turn on/off the TV, so point remote away/cover IR "eye" to avoid this if you wish)

OK...not an actual list of codes.

But if you wish to set up a "learning" universal remote such as a Logitech/Harmony or similar product that allows for "learning" of other remotes keypad functions via IR signal, this list will help. Puts F59 remote in "discrete" mode, changing the layout of the F59 remote. The list of buttons below will activate specific funtions, including DIRECT access to inputs--no more scrolling thru the input list!

Used the input "codes" last night on my old ONE FOR ALL learning/macro remote. Haven't used macros since getiing my F59, since up until now I did not know you could get direct inout access. Now, like in the past, 1 button gives me direct input access and sets up any/all AV gear to the specific function selected. Nice featre to have back.

Anyway, enough of my yappin'. Thanks to riotstarter for posting this on the 57F59A thread.



To exit discrete mode, hold TV button, press 0, then 1, then release TV. This puts the F59 remote back to "normal" (and will turn on/off the TV, so point remote away/cover IR "eye" to avoid this if you wish)

Here's the list of codes for the 57F59 (thanks to Kupakai):
http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?TV_0145

This thread has instructions on how to program keys and macros on a Comcast DVR remote:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879307

what does the g drive do

what does the g drive do

If there is no G drive, that's because it's all relative. You will do the same thing by using an overall contrast control, as the drives affect the bright parts of the picture.

The missing drive is always the one that is already the weakest and as such has no need of being attenuated, since that's all that regulating each drive does. In the case of green not showing up, that's because it's already maxed out - as the weakest one needs to be - and falls roughly at the midpoint of red and blue's drive amounts.

We use drives and cuts to balance the red green and blue such that b/w video material shows up at D6500K, or 6500 Kelvins.

That makes our displays accurately match the b/w grayscale of the monitors used in shooting our movies, TV shows and everything else that finds its way into our homes as video.


Mr Bob

thank you

thank you

;)

Though my contrast at 20% is still plenty bright, without crushing the whites at the high end.


Running Contrast lower than the usual is not going to crush your whites. You do that when it is run higher than it should be.

Remember, the owner in question had hit the Reset in the sm, in there, causing all sorts of problems, of which this is evidently just one. That's why he's having these problems. Your settings have not been decimated like that.


Mr Bob

Has anyone noticed on their 51 incher, that running a dvd player at 1080i either reveals or causes noise in the picture versus 720 or 480p? I have notived this on four different dvd players, a Toshiba model and all three Oppos. 1080i produes more detail or at least makes the details easier to see, but it also introduces video noise into the picture. THe picture with a 720p output is cleaner but less detailed. Anyone else notice this?

Has anyone noticed on their 51 incher, that running a dvd player at 1080i either reveals or causes noise in the picture versus 720 or 480p? I have notived this on four different dvd players, a Toshiba model and all three Oppos. 1080i produes more detail or at least makes the details easier to see, but it also introduces video noise into the picture. THe picture with a 720p output is cleaner but less detailed. Anyone else notice this?

I run the Sony NS75H @ 1080i with my 51.

I find that @ 1080i I get the "best" PQ, although the diff is pretty negligible. Only time I notice anything "bad" is on certain DVDs. Some "noise" issues of some, not on others. Think it has more to do with the quality of the mastering job on the DVDs.

DVDs like the SW films, Indy Jones, POTC, most PIXAR flicks.....excellent PQ. Others---still very nice, but fairly easy to see blocking, noise, EE (if you look for it). Eps II-VI of the SW flicks, for example, look damn near HD.

I run the Sony NS75H @ 1080i with my 51.

I find that @ 1080i I get the "best" PQ, although the diff is pretty negligible. Only time I notice anything "bad" is on certain DVDs. Some "noise" issues of some, not on others. Think it has more to do with the quality of the mastering job on the DVDs.

DVDs like the SW films, Indy Jones, POTC, most PIXAR flicks.....excellent PQ. Others---still very nice, but fairly easy to see blocking, noise, EE (if you look for it). Eps II-VI of the SW flicks, for example, look damn near HD.

The picture still looks really good, almost HD as you point out. The only drawback is the noise relative to the 720p settings. It's really easy to see on LOTR: ROTK, on the second disc one of the last chapters. The scene where the Nasghoul(sp) was just killed and the Wraith is talking to the woman tht killed it and the wing is right next to his head. There is tons of noise on the wing in 1080i and almost none in 480p or 720p. And in almost any mobvie, it's very easy to tell as well. It is definately a display issue as opposed to a player one as it happens across multiple dvd players.

What do you think.

The picture still looks really good, almost HD as you point out. The only drawback is the noise relative to the 720p settings. It's really easy to see on LOTR: ROTK, on the second disc one of the last chapters. The scene where the Nasghoul(sp) was just killed and the Wraith is talking to the woman tht killed it and the wing is right next to his head. There is tons of noise on the wing in 1080i and almost none in 480p or 720p. And in almost any mobvie, it's very easy to tell as well. It is definately a display issue as opposed to a player one as it happens across multiple dvd players.

What do you think.

Could be--and I stress could, 'cause I can't say for sure--that your set and mine may have some diffs in certain SM parameters that deal with EE and whatnot.

Could be the diffs in our respective DVD players (your Tosh & Oppos vs my Sony) in it's upscaling circuitry.

Or it's something else.

Either way, the only opinion you need to consider in terms of the best settings for PQ is your own. If upscaled DVD looks better @ 720p on your set--to your eyes--or 480p looks good as well...then by all means use those resolutions.

One other suggestion. Have you tried any of your DVD players @ 480i via component, letting the F59 Virtual HD upscale them to 1080i internally? May want to try that and see if the same noise persists.

my tv is almost coming up to a year do you think if i call hitachi and tell them the picture is getting darker they would come to clean in side the tv that its would be under warranty

Could be--and I stress could, 'cause I can't say for sure--that your set and mine may have some diffs in certain SM parameters that deal with EE and whatnot.

Could be the diffs in our respective DVD players (your Tosh & Oppos vs my Sony) in it's upscaling circuitry.

Or it's something else.

Either way, the only opinion you need to consider in terms of the best settings for PQ is your own. If upscaled DVD looks better @ 720p on your set--to your eyes--or 480p looks good as well...then by all means use those resolutions.

One other suggestion. Have you tried any of your DVD players @ 480i via component, letting the F59 Virtual HD upscale them to 1080i internally? May want to try that and see if the same noise persists.

For me, 1080i still looks best, I just wish I could get rid of the noise. The noise reductin on the dvd playre works, but I think the penalty is in less detail. I thinkI'm going to go over my sm settings and see if something there is the culprit.

I tried the Oppo 970 at 480i over HDMi and was not that impressed. For me, the picture is much improved with the inclusion of Faroudja's circuitry. The noise however, is only there when the dvd players are outputting 1080i, it's a little weird and frustrating.

my tv is almost coming up to a year do you think if i call hitachi and tell them the picture is getting darker they would come to clean in side the tv that its would be under warranty


I doubt it.

And with highly vulnerable plastic lenses and an HD grade aluminized front surface mirror, you better know who you are having on the case, if you don't want to risk permanent damage to your optics.

Hitachi would never send their own factory techs out, who MAY just be trustable on such issues. They will send out locals from the shop nearest to you that they have under warranty contract with Hitachi. It will always be a local repair tech - not calibrator - for anything handled under Hitachi warranty.

Or any other brand's warranty.

That is, absent severe and repeated doltery by local warranty techs. ie, not in this case.

I have been called onto the playing field twice by the manufacturer, when the local yokels just couldn't get it right, concerning geometry and convergence. Once by Hitachi, once by Mit.

In both cases the unit was still under factory warranty.


Mr Bob

My 51 was just fine but recently the dark parts of movies shows the faces with a green tint. I have the new AVIA on order but it had problems in manufacturing and I don't know when I will get it. I had my settings for video much lower than what came from the factory but now I have to turn them way up to get a decent picture. Has this happened to anyone else and does anyone have and ideas? Please advise.

Thanks,

Ed

My 51 was just fine but recently the dark parts of movies shows the faces with a green tint. I have the new AVIA on order but it had problems in manufacturing and I don't know when I will get it. I had my settings for video much lower than what came from the factory but now I have to turn them way up to get a decent picture. Has this happened to anyone else and does anyone have and ideas? Please advise.

Thanks,

Ed
First, check all your cables. One may have gotten loose. If that doesn't help, we'll need a lot more info: HDMI/component, all inputs, DVDs but not TV, etc.

First, check all your cables. One may have gotten loose. If that doesn't help, we'll need a lot more info: HDMI/component, all inputs, DVDs but not TV, etc.

I have a Toshiba A2 and PS3 connected through a Pure AV HDMI splitter in a HDMI connection and that is all I use the TV for. The PQ was fine when I added the splitter and all the connections are tight. I have done the 9 point convergence and had a service upgrade on the HDMI and upgraded to the megenta settings. I haven't tried the Lee Bailey service tip yet because I am not that brave. Any other suggestions?

Any other suggestions?
Can you run component cables from the A2 to the F59?

If your blacks are green watching DVDs on the A2 but regular TV (or cable) is okay, then it's the A2. If the blacks are green on everything (A2, TV and PS3), then it's (more likely) the TV.

Let us know, and one of the service folks will likely chime in. Convergence - 9, magic, 117 or a million - won't help this.

BTW, if you did the HDMI "fix" in the service menu, then you won't have any problems with the other "tweaks" recommended here. Go for it. Just work carefully and record all your changes as you go.

My 51 was just fine but recently the dark parts of movies shows the faces with a green tint. I have the new AVIA on order but it had problems in manufacturing and I don't know when I will get it. I had my settings for video much lower than what came from the factory but now I have to turn them way up to get a decent picture. Has this happened to anyone else and does anyone have and ideas? Please advise.

Thanks,

Ed


Check a pure b/w pic by running component and disco'ing the Pb and Pr conns. This will give you Y only, which is pure b/w.

Put on a dark set of scenes.

If the darks are green then, it's a grayscale issue, and needs to be ISF'd.


Mr Bob

hey i was watching the show big love in hd it comes in at 1080i i noticed some motion blur is that common

Whatever the blur was, it almost certainly wasn't from the TV. CRTs don't suffer LCD-style motion blur.

Probably motion artifacts from the HBO source (cable/sat-related compression).

Just want to shout out a huge THANK YOU to all the posters on this and other f59 threads that gave me the confidence to order a 65f59 sight unseen. (no place to look at one within 150 miles) It arrived in good condition after traveling 2000 miles to get here, followed all the basic set-up advice and liked it a lot! Got very busy and didn't get around to feeding it high def (no local over-the-air) for a couple months. Went the whole route with DVR and all and... WOW!!! It's like a window in my living room looking everywhere. Without this forum I might have been seduced by the newer technologies and settled for a lower quality, smaller display, since our budget was limited. Again THANK YOU all.
Now if Hitachi would just come up with a fix for the HDMI shift issue...
Dave

Just want to shout out a huge THANK YOU to all the posters on this and other f59 threads that gave me the confidence to order a 65f59 sight unseen. (no place to look at one within 150 miles) It arrived in good condition after traveling 2000 miles to get here, followed all the basic set-up advice and liked it a lot! Got very busy and didn't get around to feeding it high def (no local over-the-air) for a couple months. Went the whole route with DVR and all and... WOW!!! It's like a window in my living room looking everywhere. Without this forum I might have been seduced by the newer technologies and settled for a lower quality, smaller display, since our budget was limited. Again THANK YOU all.
Now if Hitachi would just come up with a fix for the HDMI shift issue...
Dave

Good to hear! You should have years of 65" HD happiness ahead of you (and for a steal of a price, too!)

Yes, keep your eyes peeled on the AVS Forums for the shift fix. According to poster Livin (who pretty much singlehandedly spearheaded the shift fix issue here with this thread):

F59 HDMI SHIFT ISSUE DISCUSSION THREAD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842581)

...Hitachi informed Livin that as of last Friday (7/27/07) they were still working on a fix. Whoever gets the official info first will likely post it on all F59-related threads.

WOW!!! It's like a window in my living room looking everywhere. Without this forum I might have been seduced by the newer technologies and settled for a lower quality, smaller display, since our budget was limited. Again THANK YOU all.

Dave


Enjoyed the way you put it.

If you like these threads, check out this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&highlight=don+t+dump+your[Don't dump your CRT RPTV!

Mr Bob

I don't know how to really explain this problem I am having. When I was playing my Xbox 360, i noticed on the right half of the screen, there were horizontal lines going across and they were changing the colors of the background then the picture would move. I zoomed in on a football helmet in Madden 08, and exactly at the top of the helmet, there was a line going all the way to the right, and then it was discoloring the rest of the picture below it, until there was another line at the bottom of the helmet. The left half of my tv is fine, nothing wrong at all. You can only really see it on darker images, but it is bugging me. Has anyone seen this before, my warranty is up i think, and i didn't know if there was a service menu tweak or not that could fix the right 1/3 of my screen. I also have noticed that the picture is darker than normal, and there was a redish tint to it that has been there for a while.

Sorry if this has been covered. What is the resolution of my 51f59a? I plugged in an old PC of mine with a new Nvidia 8400 video card and it actually works pretty well. Nvidia software has a place for custom resolution, but not sure what to set it for.

Sorry if this has been covered. What is the resolution of my 51f59a? I plugged in an old PC of mine with a new Nvidia 8400 video card and it actually works pretty well. Nvidia software has a place for custom resolution, but not sure what to set it for.

The resolution is about 1350x1080.

The resolution is about 1350x1080.

I get "Custom Mode Failed" when I try to set the custom resolution in the Nvidia control panel. *lots* of options here.

GDI Refresh Rate (60) default.
Bits per pixel (32) default.
Interlaced (unchecked) default

Under advanced are tons of options:

Front-End Parameters (Timing Standards) default = auto
Back End Parameters <Scaling Type> default = display

tried several settings and always "custom mode failed".

maybe try HTPC threads?

Sorry if this has been covered. What is the resolution of my 51f59a? I plugged in an old PC of mine with a new Nvidia 8400 video card and it actually works pretty well. Nvidia software has a place for custom resolution, but not sure what to set it for.

If, indeed, "it actually works pretty well," what are the default settings that the card is using now?
I hooked up my Mac a few months ago just for fun and was pretty impressed that it worked right "out of the box." Unfortunately, I did not write down the settings the computer used, though I DID uncheck the overscan box so the image would fit (perfectly, I might add) on the screen.
And what the heck are you going to do with a 51" monitor, anyway?!

I had to swap cards and put an older Nvidia 7600GT card in there to get the 1350x1080 custom resolution. One interesting thing i ran across is the very latest Nvidia 8x00 cards do not allow custom resolutions with current drivers, even tho there is a place to enter that.

right now it doesn't work well. the picture is about twice the width of the TV, more flicker, more out of focus. i gave up on it for now.

would be cool to figure out.

I was going to use the TV as a projector with a group of people, but it's way too out-of-focus at this point. maybe i'll try an ATI card next.

I was going to use the TV as a projector with a group of people, but it's way too out-of-focus at this point. maybe i'll try an ATI card next.

Or a Mac!:)