The resolution is about 1350x1080.

refresh rate should be more like 30 not 60? still trying to get this thing working, way out of whack now. :/

not sure where to go for help on this. I doubt Hitachi is going to give me specs for an HTPC.

The set's REAL resolution is about 1280x1080i, however it only accepts 1280x720p and 1920x1080i signals for HD.

refresh rate should be more like 30 not 60? still trying to get this thing working, way out of whack now. :/

not sure where to go for help on this. I doubt Hitachi is going to give me specs for an HTPC.



HTPC is not the best way to set up a Hitachi RPTV. You should set it up with a normal HD STB, and go from there.

HTPC is all over the map on things like height and width, so no standardization is readily available for HTPC.

Once you have it right for a regular HD STB, you can go back and reverse engineer your HTPC to correctness, using the product of the STB on your display as your reference.

I don't know how this will react to refresh rate, tho, as I am not a PC authority. So good luck on that. Hopefully getting all these other things out of the way using a regular STB as a reference can narrow it down some.


Mr Bob

not sure where to go for help on this. I doubt Hitachi is going to give me specs for an HTPC.

Okay, I can't stand it anymore. I disassembled my desktop system (Mac G5 dualie) and hooked it up again to my 57F59 via HDMI. The computer automatically, by default, all by itself, just like a good little Mac, displayed beautifully on the screen. The settings it chose were:
resolution: 1920 x 1080 (interlaced)
refresh rate: 60 Hertz (NTSC)

The only option (under "Options," oddly enough) was a check box under TV output for "overscan." Selecting the box overscans the TV (why you would WANT to do such a thing is beyond me, but you can); deselecting it fits the image perfectly on the screen.

So it can be done. You may just need to find the right video card. And driver software. And adapter. And operating system.

Hell, just get a Mac.

Michael

Okay, I can't stand it anymore. I disassembled my desktop system (Mac G5 dualie) and hooked it up again to my 57F59 via HDMI. The computer automatically, by default, all by itself, just like a good little Mac, displayed beautifully on the screen. The settings it chose were:
resolution: 1920 x 1080 (interlaced)
refresh rate: 60 Hertz (NTSC)

The only option (under "Options," oddly enough) was a check box under TV output for "overscan." Selecting the box overscans the TV (why you would WANT to do such a thing is beyond me, but you can); deselecting it fits the image perfectly on the screen.

So it can be done. You may just need to find the right video card. And driver software. And adapter. And operating system.

Hell, just get a Mac.

Michael

:D:D:D:D

Hi all,

This is my first post, and I thought I had it down. I guess not, as now I am trying to avoid a service call.

I adjusted the overscan measurements slightly and noticed that I have a little bending at the edges of the screen. How do I adjust this? I have a vague understanding of geometry and DCAM. My colors are fine, It just bends at the edges.

How do I solve my problem? (Or can you point me to where I can get instructions?)

Thanks!

Hi all,

This is my first post, and I thought I had it down. I guess not, as now I am trying to avoid a service call.

I adjusted the overscan measurements slightly and noticed that I have a little bending at the edges of the screen. How do I adjust this? I have a vague understanding of geometry and DCAM. My colors are fine, It just bends at the edges.

How do I solve my problem? (Or can you point me to where I can get instructions?)

Thanks!

All overscan reduction trashes your picture. It's something you have to be dedicated to correcting, if you decide to go down that path. It has a massive learning curve.

If a slight bending of your picture is that noticeable to you, get ready, cause you ain't seen nothin' yet. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and now. Restore your overscan to where it was, and breathe a big sigh of relief.

If you are dedicated enough, I am available if you want personal guidance, with consultation. Or stay tuned, the guys here will hold your hand thru it, I am sure.

;)

Mr Bob

Hi all,

This is my first post, and I thought I had it down. I guess not, as now I am trying to avoid a service call.

I adjusted the overscan measurements slightly and noticed that I have a little bending at the edges of the screen. How do I adjust this? I have a vague understanding of geometry and DCAM. My colors are fine, It just bends at the edges.

How do I solve my problem? (Or can you point me to where I can get instructions?)

Thanks!


The nuts 'n bolts of getting your geo. back basically has to do with getting the DCAM grid straight again.

Far easier said than done, I'm afraid.:mad:

I reduced my F59 o'scan, then spent a few evenings sorting out all the geo issues that went with it. Fortunately, the F59s do allow DCAM adjustments while ext. video is displayed. This way, you can look for geo erros with actual video, not just DCAM grids. I have a pretty solid grasp on Hitachi DCAM myself, but this is due to several years of "practice" I got tweaking my old Hit CRT RPTV (43UWX10B) before gettting an F59.

Good on screen geo references are scrolling text/rolling credits, any panning still images...really, any video you are familiar with. Discovery Channel-type shows often have panning images in them. Variosu patterns from AVIA/DVE/etc also are helpful.

For now, however, I would heed Mr Bob's advice and put it back to where it was. If you look back to the 1st couple of pages of this thread, you'll find the instructions for returning your set to factory oscan levels. You can even use the geo overlay template (downloadable link way back on this thread) do get factory geo/oscan back.

Afterwards, you might consider hiring Bob on a phone consult basis. Or, better yet, fly him out for the whole calibration enchilada.

Hey guys I just wanted to share some info based on my recent screen removal for a "coolant cootie" issue.

I removed my screen a week or so ago to clean my optics and mirror because of a spot on my screen. I did this on the spot, so I only had some alcohol based cleaner and it left streaks on my mirror. I almost thought that I messed the mirror up because they just wouldn't go away.

Last night I used Sprayway the stuff Mr. Bob swears by and..........WOW! One spray and wipe and ALL my streaks were gone! I used this on the lens caps as well. This stuff is amazing!

Some say that its hard to find, I live in Michigan and my local Walmart had a ton of it.

Also, I have the 51f59a and I just wanted to let everyone know that you can very easily mechanically focus this set by removing the front panel, the one with the power button etc. Two screws and plenty of room.

Also, the dimming of the DCU discussed here is amazing as well. Between the focus and redoing DCAM after the dimming, my set looks better than it ever has! Now I just need to get my coolant changed to fixed my "spot"..............:( Some day!

Just thought that I would share!

Hi all,

Just thought I'd update. I finally got adventurous and went into DCAM mode. I just had to make a few tweaks, and now my problem is solved. I thought it would be an easy fix since I didn't adjust the overscan much at all.

I was just concerned because I thought I'd have to start from scratch and adjust every single line and try to make a perfect grid from nothing. My grid was fine, again, except for a few spots around the edges.

Picture looks great. It even fixed the little bug I had before I started fiddling around with this. Thanks for the help everyone!

YOUTG range is 00 - 01 (on or off).

I'm curious if anyone's F59 had YOUTG set at 01 as shipped from the factory.

Mine was defaulted @ 00 (off), but turning it on (01) adds some fidelity to the picture, but may need to tame white highlights by reducing STATG2 from default 03 to lower value.

Turning it on (setting it to 01) seems to overcome some of the default tendency of my particular set (51F59A) to display a dark picture where bringing out shadow detail was a difficult dance with the contrast (white level) and brightness (black level) user controls. Using Avia to set white level and black level still had a lot of detail gone in the shadow areas (I think this is called black crush?), but after turning YOUTG on I can set contrast to 28 for night viewing, brightness at 48 and the picture looks very vibrant with good transparency and decent shadow detail. FWIW the avia moving bars black level test put my optimum black level at 48 - 51 on the user brightness adjustment.

Sorry for the long edit, but this tweak might be worth trying if you have trouble getting shadow detail and picture fidelity balanced. YOUTG is under TA1360 in the service menu, just below STATG1 and STATG2.

After messing around with the picture, being a little more adventurous, I have come to the conclusion that while YOUTG still looks better at 0, STATG1 looks best to me at 7 and STATG2 looks best at 3. I get extreme blacks this way but more shadow detail. My Brightness is at 60.

my 51 inch looks like crap

i've had it 2 years, GF gets a lcd, and i realize tht my tv has slowly gone to hell over the past 2 years

it's dim, letters are fuzzy, god knows how many color pushes, etc. i tried calibrating with Avia and it still looks terrible. it's so dim. when i moved contrast from 40 to 100 i could barely tell the difference.

Clean The Optics!

my 51 inch looks like crap

i've had it 2 years, GF gets a lcd, and i realize tht my tv has slowly gone to hell over the past 2 years

it's dim, letters are fuzzy, god knows how many color pushes, etc. i tried calibrating with Avia and it still looks terrible. it's so dim. when i moved contrast from 40 to 100 i could barely tell the difference.

I would say read over this thread from page one in conjunction with looking at some things over in the FP CRT forum, including the screenshots. Those two things helped me get my picture to the point where right now at this moment, I can't wait to get home and pop in a movie, SD and HD. I wouldn;t trade my set for any LCD I've seen, but if you wanted to swap me a Pioneer Kuro Elite............

As a last resort and probably a better one, call a professional to calibrate it. I guarantee you'll be more than happy with the picture.

After messing around with the picture, being a little more adventurous, I have come to the conclusion that while YOUTG still looks better at 0, STATG1 looks best to me at 7 and STATG2 looks best at 3. I get extreme blacks this way but more shadow detail. My Brightness is at 60.

Don't know how I missed the first post (if I did), but my S-GAIN-SW came set to 01 (default according to service manual is 00) and M-GAIN-SW came set to 00 (default is 01), so apparently they really do adjust the sets on the way out. Changing them to the defaults resulted in a lousy picture, BTW, so they may actually know that they're doing.:)
My YOUTG was at 00 (still is). STATG1 was and is 00, though I have seen a recommendation for 06 (right, Ballz?), so you're not alone. STATG2 defaults to 03, but I've seen others change it to 00 (Ballz) and 02 (Lee). So there you have it. If you like it, go with it.
Unless Mr. Bob says your set is about to blow up and you need to fly him in ASAP.

ok, i spent a lot of time on the 117 point convergence, popped in Avia disc again, and switched from night to day setting.

wow, looks really nice now. amazing how much better than colors are on a CRT than on a LCD (my GF's lcd that is).

thanks.

Clean The Optics!

Couldn'ta said it better mahseff!


:p

Mr Bob

Some time back, someone asked about the apparent inability of the F59 to allow vertical centering of HD video (using V POSITION) in the service menu. Horiz movement was doable (H POSITION H for HD).

However, while playing around with the settings on my D* HDDVR, I discovered a way to center HD both vert/horiz.

Posted this on Mr Bob's CRT RPTV thread, but this is a better location for it:

Actually, you can adjust both H and V POSITIONs for HD on the F59s. But there is a trick. And not a "trick" in the service menu. Just uses the H/V POSITION parameters on the first page of the service menu. And some HD source resolution changes.....

Since V POS is movable in 720p mode, you just need to send a 720p signal to the F59 and vertically center the HD image. Then, to get horizontal HD centering, send the TV a 1080i signal, and adj H POSITION H. (The extra "H" comes up next to the H POS value when you press SELECT on the remote - a secondary H POSITION value that can be set independently of the regular H POS - SD video - value).

Then, just leave the source (if possible) to output 1080i for all HD.

I did this by first tuning to a 1080i HD program (in this case, Jay Leno from my local NBC station). Normally a 1080i signal, as is all NBC HD. Set my D* box to output 720p only. Converted NBC signal to 720p and I used that to vert center the pic.

Once V POS looked right, went back to the D* box and reset HD res to 1080i only. V POS stayed where I put it, and was then able to adj H POSITION H to center HD horiz.

So there you go. HD centering is possible. Why this works like it does is beyond me....but it works.

And my gray bar SD is also still centered.

ok, i spent a lot of time on the 117 point convergence, popped in Avia disc again, and switched from night to day setting.

thanks.


And all changes made in User convergence STAY while in sm! So chances are even going to the DCAM in sm won't improve it now.

One major advantage to sm, tho, is being able to really back down the intensity/brightness of the grids Hit's use, both in user and sm. When the proper regs in sm have been cut to half of what the factory hex value is, then they can be used to INCREDIBLE advantage, for convergence. I believe they are DCUBRT and DCUCONT, but correct me if I'm wrong on that, I always feel those regs in there out from memory whenever I am calibrating one, and don't necessarily even try to memorize the exact name of each one.

They get so good when their luminance has been turned down to a decent level - shame on Hitachi for holding out on this and forcing us to use balls to the wall Torch Mode on every facet of our convergences, OOB - that you don't need to use external grids for convergence, as we are forced to do in many other brands.


;)

Mr Bob

Some time back, someone asked about the apparent inability of the F59 to allow vertical centering of HD video (using V POSITION) in the service menu. Horiz movement was doable (H POSITION H for HD).

However, while playing around with the settings on my D* HDDVR, I discovered a way to center HD both vert/horiz.

Posted this on Mr Bob's CRT RPTV thread, but this is a better location for it:

Actually, you can adjust both H and V POSITIONs for HD on the F59s. But there is a trick. And not a "trick" in the service menu. Just uses the H/V POSITION parameters on the first page of the service menu. And some HD source resolution changes.....

Since V POS is movable in 720p mode, you just need to send a 720p signal to the F59 and vertically center the HD image. Then, to get horizontal HD centering, send the TV a 1080i signal, and adj H POSITION H. (The extra "H" comes up next to the H POS value when you press SELECT on the remote - a secondary H POSITION value that can be set independently of the regular H POS - SD video - value).

Then, just leave the source (if possible) to output 1080i for all HD.

I did this by first tuning to a 1080i HD program (in this case, Jay Leno from my local NBC station). Normally a 1080i signal, as is all NBC HD. Set my D* box to output 720p only. Converted NBC signal to 720p and I used that to vert center the pic.

Once V POS looked right, went back to the D* box and reset HD res to 1080i only. V POS stayed where I put it, and was then able to adj H POSITION H to center HD horiz.

So there you go. HD centering is possible. Why this works like it does is beyond me....but it works.

And my gray bar SD is also still centered.


Awesome!

:cool:

Mr Bob

Yes, the Hit F59 sm registers for taming the DCAM grid brightness are DCUBRT (brightness) and DCUCNT(contrast).
As Bob said, cranking these down by half or more will give you totally usable convergence grids.

Also, there are similar ones (OSDBRT, OSDCNT) that dial down the bright/contrast of the on screen menus.

Yes, the Hit F59 sm registers for taming the DCAM grid brightness are DCUBRT (brightness) and DCUCNT(contrast).
As Bob said, cranking these down by half or more will give you totally usable convergence grids.

Also, there are similar ones (OSDBRT, OSDCNT) that dial down the bright/contrast of the on screen menus.


Yes, having those graphics in the OSD not raking their claws into your phosphors is good, too.

I have youse guys to thank for all those insights, BTW. I'm just passing them on.

Thanks!

;)

Mr Bob

A little something I posted @ the main F59 thread that should also go here...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11998857&postcount=1958

The link is to a post on MR Bob's CRT RPTV thread.

I did a slight mod to my 51 to correct some uneven focus on red. This scheimpfluge mod consisted of slightly altering the angle at which the red lens assembly sits in relation to the mirror. USed to get some red blooming on the left side of the screen (mainly top left corner). By putting small washers btwn the attachment points of the lens covers and the CRT on the 2 centermost screws angled the red lens out just enough to help correct the left defocus. Red is now much more uniform screenwide.

The full description of such a mod is here:


http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/exper...eimpfluge.html

...and is quite easy to do. Does require redoing mechanical focus (and maybe a little electrostatic focus touchup as well) and some DCAM fixes. ANd removing the offending lens assembly, of course. But if you are getting one (or more) colors with uneven focus--and regular focus tweaks aren't cutting it --I suggest giving this a shot.

Man I was about to give up and call Hitachi back when I found this. Awesome. The service tech went by this bulletin to fix my set today but 3 hour later it lost everything again. It didnt take for some reason, hopefully it will this time...so far so good. Thanks my man.:D

Man I was about to give up and call Hitachi back when I found this. Awesome. The service tech went by this bulletin to fix my set today but 3 hour later it lost everything again. It didnt take for some reason, hopefully it will this time...so far so good. Thanks my man.:D

Referring to the HDMI fix?

A 51F500 owner just contacted me for conv repair on his unit, and we have an appointment set up for tomorrow.

My problem is I ran out of my STK 392-110 supply - and the 180's I had on hand that are the upgrade - and my new shipment has not arrived yet.

Does this unit use the 110's? Or the 570's? Don't know, don't want to cost him a travel charge just finding out.

Someone out there know?


Mr Bob

Just saying hi, haven't been on the board in a long time. I had a 51F59 that had excessive convergence drift and had a problem with the convergence grid doing a pincushion looking appearance. This was back in March/April, there are posts in this thread about it from me.

Anyhow I've had the replacement unit (warranty replacement) since April and it has been rock stable on convergence. First week with the replacement 51F59 I just did the COLORG (red push) mod in the service menu, then ran through a 117 point user convergence, which I intentionally made five passes on in order to ensure it would stick. Very slight drift through 100 hour break-in but after another five pass 117 pt user convergence, its held the convergence for going on six months now.

What I didn't do on this one, was go into DCAM. No need. User 117 point dialed it in tight enough for me. DCAM has never been cracked open on this set and I have no plans to do so, going to stay solely in the top level user convergence accessible off the user setup menu.

I may, however, jump into service menu at some point and decrease the brightness and contrast of the user convergence grid, so as to allow for the tightest possible convergence adjustment in 117 point user manual adjust mode.

Anyhow, just saying hey to all you hardcore Hit 51FXX series tweakers!

reduced brightness on the convergence grid is a must-do. Thought I had a clean pic until I made the brightness changes an went back to reconverge, it's that big a deal!

reduced brightness on the convergence grid is a must-do. Thought I had a clean pic until I made the brightness changes an went back to reconverge, it's that big a deal!

I agree, it's awesome how tight it allows your conv to get, whether in user or sm. Don't even need an external grid to be sent in.

It's also great that you don't have to go into sm to do the conv points - all changes made in user apply in sm as well.

I think only Tosh does the same thing. The others require a service level convergence to survive a power outage, or invasion into the sm, where the user corrections automatically get erased when you come out.


Mr Bob

Could someone post a link or how to reduce the brightness on the convergence grid? I realize that it's in the service menu but is it clearly labelled?

Thanks in advance. :)

Could someone post a link or how to reduce the brightness on the convergence grid? I realize that it's in the service menu but is it clearly labelled?

Thanks in advance. :)

If you scroll all the way up to post 1021, you'll see it.
Uncloaked, right in front of your very eyes.

Yes, the Hit F59 sm registers for taming the DCAM grid brightness are DCUBRT (brightness) and DCUCNT(contrast).
As Bob said, cranking these down by half or more will give you totally usable convergence grids.

Also, there are similar ones (OSDBRT, OSDCNT) that dial down the bright/contrast of the on screen menus.

I'd like to do this tweak so I can try to dial in the DCAM convergence a bit better, but I can't find the DCUBRT, DCUCNT, OSDBRT, or OSDCNT settings anywhere in the service menu. What submenu is it under? I don't find it under ISF MODE or MAINTENANCE or any of the orther submenus. Can anyone offer a detailed-ish explanation of where to find them?

Thanks!

I'd like to do this tweak so I can try to dial in the DCAM convergence a bit better, but I can't find the DCUBRT, DCUCNT, OSDBRT, or OSDCNT settings anywhere in the service menu. What submenu is it under? I don't find it under ISF MODE or MAINTENANCE or any of the orther submenus. Can anyone offer a detailed-ish explanation of where to find them?

Thanks!

The paramters you seek are in the TA1360 submenu.

Enter SM.
Scroll down to TA1360 submenu (3rd page/list of submenus) and press ENTER
Scroll thru TA1360 to the desired parameters.
WHen changing the values, you must:

-Make sure you write down any original value, just in case.
-When you have changed a specific value, you need to press ENTER on the remote to make it "stick".

As to what to change these to for best results, here are the settings ("factory" first, "tweaked" second) that will essentially dial down the DCAM grid contrast/brightness by half (approximating a 50IRE grid):

DCUBRT (DCAM grid brightness) 3F down to 1F
DCUCNT (DCAM grid contrast) 5A down to 2D

As far as the OSDBRT/CNT parameters, they only cycle thru 3-4 values, and the results of these are readily apparent when you alter them. I dialed down my OSD a bit, mainly 'cause @ stock settings, it's very bright.

Remember to press ENTER on the F59 remote after making changes, otherwise settings will revert to their previous value as soon as you exit the SM.

BTW, the easiest way to access the SM is to use the "remote only" function w/ the F59 remote. Press & hold TV, then press MENU, then INFO, release TV.

Once you have done this, press the PAUSE key and the SM will appear.

Be careful, though. The above remote procedue puts the remote into a different mode (used during DCAM adjustment). Don't go pushing a lot of buttons while in this mode and working in the SM. Just stick w/ the arrow and ENTER keys (L/R for altering values, UP/DOWN for scrolling thru menus).

Pressing EXIT will then get you out of SM. As soon as you are done, return the remote to "normal"--press/hold TV, press 0, then 1, release TV (If remote is pointing @ the set, the TV will turn off when you release TV---now you know you are back to normal).

This "tweak" makes the F59 DCAM grid (both in service DCAM mode & user "manual Magic Focus" mode - 117pt adj) much more usable.

BTW, the easiest way to access the SM is to use the "remote only" function w/ the F59 remote. Press & hold TV, then press MENU, then INFO, release TV.

Once you have done this, press the PAUSE key and the SM will appear.

Be careful, though. The above remote procedue puts the remote into a different mode (used during DCAM adjustment). Don't go pushing a lot of buttons while in this mode and working in the SM. Just stick w/ the arrow and ENTER keys (L/R for altering values, UP/DOWN for scrolling thru menus).

Indeed, be VERY careful with the remote in this mode. For the faint-hearted, access the service menu by pressing and holding the "menu" button on the TV and, at the same time, pressing "menu" - "8" - "select" on the remote. When you're done in the SM, "exit" gets you out.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply, jwebb. My 51F59 is looking better than ever! I'm actually able to read the text on my HTPC now, and movies are sharper with the grid adjusted so much more tightly. It's lookin' great :D

This scheimpfluge mod consisted of slightly altering the angle at which the red lens assembly sits in relation to the mirror.

Okay, you talked me into it. The next weekend I have the opportunity, out comes the Sprayway and off comes the screen. My red is out on the lower left. BTW, with the screen off, how can you see what you're doing? Can you tell by looking in the mirror (which, of course, I will also clean)?
Aside: if you're looking for a way to get the lenses closer to the mirror, couldn't you do something like this with larger washers on all three lenses, or does that fall under "more trouble than it's worth"? Can't you just use the trimpots (which I'm sure you have done)?
Think we're ever going to finish playing with these things?:)

While I'm here: running DVE-HD, very strange artifact during flame sequence. SD version flames are yellow and orange and look fine. HD version orange is replaced with red. Very unnatural. Manual is of no help (and I'm not going to change anything since everything else looks fabulous, but I am curious if anyone else has experienced this).:confused:

Michael

Okay, you talked me into it. The next weekend I have the opportunity, out comes the Sprayway and off comes the screen. My red is out on the lower left. BTW, with the screen off, how can you see what you're doing? Can you tell by looking in the mirror (which, of course, I will also clean)?
Aside: if you're looking for a way to get the lenses closer to the mirror, couldn't you do something like this with larger washers on all three lenses, or does that fall under "more trouble than it's worth"? Can't you just use the trimpots (which I'm sure you have done)?
Think we're ever going to finish playing with these things?:)

While I'm here: running DVE-HD, very strange artifact during flame sequence. SD version flames are yellow and orange and look fine. HD version orange is replaced with red. Very unnatural. Manual is of no help (and I'm not going to change anything since everything else looks fabulous, but I am curious if anyone else has experienced this).:confused:

Michael

Getting the CRTs themselves - lenses and all - is whats involved in physically modding a CRT RPTV for oscan reduction. Another poster had mentioned this some time back. Had done it on an older Hitachi set. Mr Bob also mentioned a similar mod for his Mits, I believe.

On the F59, that'd be difficult, mainly due to how the CRT assembly tray is attached to the chassis.

Trimpots/H&V size pots have been altered to get my set dowm to 4% oscan. Geo/conv fixes that follow such a job are a PITA!!! Managed to get geo. basically right, but the lowering down to 4% did cause some "curling" of the red on the right side. Not normally noticable, but I know it's there. Does cause a sort of "pincushion" effect on the extreme right. May return the F59 to factory settings (5% l/r, 3.5 t/b) and either leave it there or attempt another reduction later (or just hire Bob!).

If the loss of approx 1% of visible image l/r means that geo/conv/focus is solid screenwide, I'm willing to bet I can live with it.

Highly recommend the schiempfluge mod, though. My red was slightly "soft" on the left as well. 3 washers (one each on 3 of the 4 screws) did the trick. Will need to experiment on what's best for yours. I just removed screen, added a washer, then replaced screen and used the red DCAM grid for reference (after lowering DCAM grid brightness to approx 50IRE, BTW).

Since the screen "snaps"/"pushes" into place, the repeated removal/replacement isn't such a chore.

Since the screen "snaps"/"pushes" into place, the repeated removal/replacement isn't such a chore.

Thanks. I'll keep you posted (probably after Thanksgiving, though).

Okay, you talked me into it. The next weekend I have the opportunity, out comes the Sprayway and off comes the screen. My red is out on the lower left. BTW, with the screen off, how can you see what you're doing? Can you tell by looking in the mirror (which, of course, I will also clean)?

No. Screen has to be on there.


Aside: if you're looking for a way to get the lenses closer to the mirror, couldn't you do something like this with larger washers on all three lenses, or does that fall under "more trouble than it's worth"? Can't you just use the trimpots (which I'm sure you have done)?
Think we're ever going to finish playing with these things?:)


You're not trying to get the lenses closer to the mirror, that's called focusing and involves the wingnuts. You have to get the entire array - the CRTs themselves - closer to the mirror. After which you have to refocus the lenses to the new throw distance, involving the wingnuts.

On my 73" Mit, shimming the entire array upward by 1.5" did the trick marvelously, and hosed the picture far less than messing with the height and width of the pic woulda. And even with more of the images now showing, it also allowed for sitting even closer to the screen, a surprise perk! Resulting in a much larger picture to be able to watch!

Refocusing and reconverging WILL be necessary if you plan to do this, tho, and recentering your images horizontally to superimpose correctly upon each other again.

And you can't do it if you have already reduced your overscan and had it on your CRT screens for years, due to edge screenburn issues caused by the image footprint on your CRTs.


When doing the scheimpflug alignment, be sure and defocus the image to around an inch wide on grid lines - VERY out! - so you can really see the relative thicknesses of the lines in the grid, relative to each other. Involving the wingnuts. When the alignment is complete, all grid lines will have the same thickness all over the screen, whether in focus or out of focus.

After which you'll have to refocus whatever you have defocused.


Mr Bob

On my 73" Mit, shimming the entire array upward by 1.5" did the trick marvelously, and hosed the picture far less than messing with the height and width of the pic woulda. And even with more of the images now showing, it also allowed for sitting even closer to the screen, a surprise perk! Resulting in a much larger picture to be able to watch!

WAY more trouble than it's worth (to me). Especially since I can't sit any closer. Much as I'd love to, but the sectional has to stay behind the coffee table.:)

When doing the scheimpflug alignment, be sure and defocus the image to around an inch wide on grid lines - VERY out! - so you can really see the relative thicknesses of the lines in the grid, relative to each other. Involving the wingnuts. When the alignment is complete, all grid lines will have the same thickness all over the screen, whether in focus or out of focus.


Many thanks. Will keep that in mind, and your phone number handy.:)

Michael

Well guys,

Its come down to the wire on my warranty for my Hitachi 51f59a...........rather than attempting the coolant change myself I broke down and called Hitachi regarding my purple/pink spot..........service guy came out yesterday to take look, didn't seem to think it was a big deal and actually asked me what I wanted done!!! I told him that the green CRT needed to be replaced, he said he would have the part in a week and left!

I just don't have the time right now to undertake the coolant change myself, I determined that even though re-calibration would take time and effort, at least I can do it over a period time......

Just thought I would share based on some members interest in the coolant change progress.....














Hey guys I just wanted to share some info based on my recent screen removal for a "coolant cootie" issue.

I removed my screen a week or so ago to clean my optics and mirror because of a spot on my screen. I did this on the spot, so I only had some alcohol based cleaner and it left streaks on my mirror. I almost thought that I messed the mirror up because they just wouldn't go away.

Last night I used Sprayway the stuff Mr. Bob swears by and..........WOW! One spray and wipe and ALL my streaks were gone! I used this on the lens caps as well. This stuff is amazing!

Some say that its hard to find, I live in Michigan and my local Walmart had a ton of it.

Also, I have the 51f59a and I just wanted to let everyone know that you can very easily mechanically focus this set by removing the front panel, the one with the power button etc. Two screws and plenty of room.

Also, the dimming of the DCU discussed here is amazing as well. Between the focus and redoing DCAM after the dimming, my set looks better than it ever has! Now I just need to get my coolant changed to fixed my "spot"..............:( Some day!

Just thought that I would share!

Well guys,

Its come down to the wire on my warranty for my Hitachi 51f59a...........rather than attempting the coolant change myself I broke down and called Hitachi regarding my purple/pink spot..........service guy came out yesterday to take look, didn't seem to think it was a big deal and actually asked me what I wanted done!!! I told him that the green CRT needed to be replaced, he said he would have the part in a week and left!

I just don't have the time right now to undertake the coolant change myself, I determined that even though re-calibration would take time and effort, at least I can do it over a period time......

Just thought I would share based on some members interest in the coolant change progress.....


Somebody with a Philips on one of these threads did a whole thing on how he changed his, complete with pix. I believe Jwebb has done this, on his Hit, also.


Mr Bob

Somebody with a Philips on one of these threads did a whole thing on how he changed his, complete with pix. I believe Jwebb has done this, on his Hit, also.


Mr Bob

Blue CRT on my F59 was swapped out under warranty earlier this year, due to "coolant cooties". Could have just replaced coolant, but hey....the swap out was on Hitachi's dime.

ok so i have done the hdmi fix and no longer have color/brightness problems however i cannot resolve a issue with my htpc. the image does not reach the right side of the screen(about one inch to the left) and no program can seem to make it go there. in the sm i can adjust the horizontal to make it fit properly but it messes with all the other inputs(they are no longer centered). any help in fixing this would be appreciated.

ok so i have done the hdmi fix and no longer have color/brightness problems however i cannot resolve a issue with my htpc. the image does not reach the right side of the screen(about one inch to the left) and no program can seem to make it go there. in the sm i can adjust the horizontal to make it fit properly but it messes with all the other inputs(they are no longer centered). any help in fixing this would be appreciated.

I recommend not using HDMI at all on CRT type RPTVs, it's only absolutely necessary on upconverting DVDPs.

Or you can go into the sm and alter JUST the HPOS H register, which only affects 1080i. Leave the H POS register alone.

That will leave SD alone.


Mr Bob

Well after successfully using service menu and DCAM for almost a year, I screwed up last night when touching up my convergence; forgot the remote was in DCAM mode and managed to do the dreaded "factory reset". :(

So after searching the forums up and down, I got it back pretty well, but just wondering if anyone with a dialed-in set can tell me what their WHITE BALANCE settings on the first service menu page are at for high, medium, and standard.

Mine looks pretty good now, but still doesn't seem the same as it was before the meltdown. Thanks for any help.

Well after successfully using service menu and DCAM for almost a year, I screwed up last night when touching up my convergence; forgot the remote was in DCAM mode and managed to do the dreaded "factory reset". :(

So after searching the forums up and down, I got it back pretty well, but just wondering if anyone with a dialed-in set can tell me what their WHITE BALANCE settings on the first service menu page are at for high, medium, and standard.

Mine looks pretty good now, but still doesn't seem the same as it was before the meltdown. Thanks for any help.

That prolly won't help you. Cut and drive settings are interactive with each other, and cutoff settings are based on the Screen trimpot settings in your set's particular focus block. Each set has to be set up individually, in its grayscale paradigm.

You will only need Standard. High and anything else in there is worthless when D6500K is the only concern.

You will prolly have to spring for an ISF cal.

If you fly me in, I can also realign your color decoding system to get rid of the red push and replace it with delicious, nail-bitingly accurate color rendition, for the ultimate in suspension of disbelief.

Not to mention, completely trick out your image structure.


Mr Bob

the hpos h does not affect position of anything on any input what am i doing wrong? also while adjusting my set the first time around i accidentally did a factory reset and the screen turned green and made the sound of an empty channel(snow). I eventually had to unplug it to get it to function again. Am I going to be in need of professional adjustment or am I capable of doing the adjustments myself.

Pics from my 51 incher. And I have to say although I don't think these pics are horrible, what I see on screen is far and away better than this.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/kong1.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/kong.jpg

Pics from my 51 incher. And I have to say although I don't think these pics are horrible, what I see on screen is far and away better than this.

Your first attempt looks better than I've been able to get for months. Even the white balance isn't bad. What are your settings?
Hope you don't get too much crap from the "Screenshots" guys - that thread is for projectors!

Hi All:

Be kind but I've spent some time searching the problems with my 65F59A and have found nothing quite similar. My set seems to get this odd issue in which it just suddenly goes to only one color or even a black and white reverse image. It is not an input issue since I replaced cords and it doesn't matter if its the HDMI, S from the DVD player or even antenna from the roof pulling in HD signals. All inputs at some point experience this issue and it happens for no reason at no specific time. When we shut it off and turn it back on again it resets itself although now sometimes it takes several shutdowns before regaining it's "mind". Additionally, now sometimes it just shuts off without anyone actually even holding a remote. We live in a single family dwelling and it's in a basement so it's not an issue with interference from another remote. I bought it last January so my year warrenty is nearly up and this issue has only cropped up the last 3 to 4 months. I contacted CC who told me that I need to contact Hit and I could not find a very good link to get ahold of them. Anyone have a way of getting a hold of them and anyone else having this issue?

Thanks, Nick

Hi All:

Be kind but I've spent some time searching the problems with my 65F59A and have found nothing quite similar. My set seems to get this odd issue in which it just suddenly goes to only one color or even a black and white reverse image. It is not an input issue since I replaced cords and it doesn't matter if its the HDMI, S from the DVD player or even antenna from the roof pulling in HD signals. All inputs at some point experience this issue and it happens for no reason at no specific time. When we shut it off and turn it back on again it resets itself although now sometimes it takes several shutdowns before regaining it's "mind". Additionally, now sometimes it just shuts off without anyone actually even holding a remote. We live in a single family dwelling and it's in a basement so it's not an issue with interference from another remote. I bought it last January so my year warrenty is nearly up and this issue has only cropped up the last 3 to 4 months. I contacted CC who told me that I need to contact Hit and I could not find a very good link to get ahold of them. Anyone have a way of getting a hold of them and anyone else having this issue?

Thanks, Nick

Is HDMI being used at all? Have you applied the HDMI service menu fix that I posted here (check the 2nd to last page of this thread-posted Feb 07).

If you haven't done the HDMI fix, you could be seeing the picture "freakouts" the F59 HDMI bug causes. All it takes to happen is having an HDMI cable attached to the set. Even if you are viewing stuff from another non-HDMI input, the freakouts could continue if HDMI is attached to the set.

Apply the service menu fix (easy to do, and won't hurt anything if you FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS to the letter) and see if that helps.

Your first attempt looks better than I've been able to get for months. Even the white balance isn't bad. What are your settings?
Hope you don't get too much crap from the "Screenshots" guys - that thread is for projectors!

Thanks a million. It has taken me forever to get shots that good, and they still aren't close to what I see. I believe my ISO is at 100 and my white balance was at either Auto or Daylight. I experimented a lot. I'm excited to even get them to come out like this. One wrong setting and it looks awful.

the hpos h does not affect position of anything on any input what am i doing wrong? also while adjusting my set the first time around i accidentally did a factory reset and the screen turned green and made the sound of an empty channel(snow). I eventually had to unplug it to get it to function again. Am I going to be in need of professional adjustment or am I capable of doing the adjustments myself.

You must have 1080i going in before you go into sm, for the changes that affect HD to be happening.

You have trashed your grayscale, and possibly your color decoding.

Yes, you will most likely need pro help, unless you REALLY like learning curves and have LOTS and LOTS of free, disposable time on your hands!


Mr Bob

Can anyone tell me where to get the Hitachi DIY Guide.rtf. I have looked throughout the threads, and all of the links point to documents that no longer exist. If anyone has it and would like to e-mail to me I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

Jwebb! I'm going to search that out and follow your directions. I was unfamilar with that fix but I'm going to chase it down!! Thank you so very much for your reply! Great to have folks like you out there!

Cheers,
Nick

If you haven't done the HDMI fix, you could be seeing the picture "freakouts" the F59 HDMI bug causes. All it takes to happen is having an HDMI cable attached to the set. Even if you are viewing stuff from another non-HDMI input, the freakouts could continue if HDMI is attached to the set.

Which gives you another, easier, solution: eliminate the HDMI cable and see if the problem goes away. If it does, then you can tackle the service menu, or just not use HDMI. I've been lucky; so far, no issues, though I did the "fix" (and a LOT of other things in the service menu).:)

Thanks a million. It has taken me forever to get shots that good, and they still aren't close to what I see. I believe my ISO is at 100 and my white balance was at either Auto or Daylight. I experimented a lot. I'm excited to even get them to come out like this. One wrong setting and it looks awful.

Just (an hour ago) got Planet Earth, which is amazing, but for now here's a shot from Serenity (HD):

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1354/p1000707ul8.jpg

Just (an hour ago) got Planet Earth, which is amazing, but for now here's a shot from Serenity (HD):
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2219/serenity2rw6.jpg

Nice. I will try and get the same pic and post it tonght.

I'm thinking about getting a 57F59 or a 65F59. I have a large finished basement, so having a large TV is not a problem. Unfortunately, I can't physically look at the either set, so I'm hoping that some of the current owners will be kind enough to answer a few questions I have about the sets.

Few details about my viewing area:
It's a basement with 4 windows, blinds constantly closed. The viewing distance (from the recliner to the TV) is around 8 feet. The set will be mainly used for regular TV (sports, news, adult swim, etc) viewing and xbox360, since I already have a projector for movies... Although some time in the future I may switch from the projector to the TV, since the projector's only 1024x768 resolution. The provider is Insight Digital Cable with a Motorola DVR box. I plan on using component cables, since my DVR box doesn't even have HDMI, just DVI.

1. Is the 65" model worth the extra $370 (over the 57")? I did a few measurements, and it doesnt really seem that much bigger....

2. Will the TV produce a good picture during the day (with the blinds closed)? There will not be any direct light hitting the screen, but obviously there's going to be ambient light in the basement.

3. Viewing angle. I intend to sit centered against the TV, so from what I heard it should be quite good. However, I've seen some crappy sets (RCA, not Hitachi) that would start to change brightness even as you moved your head around while sitting in the couch... that also depends on the viewing distance, but if I did my calculations correctly, 7-8 feet should be the correct viewing distance for a 65" TV according to the THX calculator. Will the Hitachi start showing those effects (dimmer corners, sides, etc) at that distance?

4. F710 vs F59. If I did my research correctly, the main difference is that the QAM tuner is not present on the F59, but that will not make any difference (in picture quality at least) if you're getting your HDTV through cable and feeding it over component to the TV.

5. Is UECWeb a good place to order the set from? I heard good things about it, but figured I'd throw that question out there anyways.

Thanks

2. Will the TV produce a good picture during the day (with the blinds closed)? There will not be any direct light hitting the screen, but obviously there's going to be ambient light in the basement.

3. Viewing angle. I intend to sit centered against the TV, so from what I heard it should be quite good. However, I've seen some crappy sets (RCA, not Hitachi) that would start to change brightness even as you moved your head around while sitting in the couch... that also depends on the viewing distance, but if I did my calculations correctly, 7-8 feet should be the correct viewing distance for a 65" TV according to the THX calculator. Will the Hitachi start showing those effects (dimmer corners, sides, etc) at that distance?

I have the 51" model but I can answer the following questions.

#2 The TV will look fine. My looks fine in a living room with a few blinds open but I don't have direct sunlight on the screen.

#3 The only time I notice the TV getting dimmer by the viewing angle is vertically and not as much horizontally. i.e. I stand up the TV gets a lot dimmer, I move side to side but staying the same height it's not nearly as noticable. Also I've been 10ft away from my TV and haven't noticed dimmer corners or sides.

Ryan

1. Is the 65" model worth the extra $370 (over the 57")? I did a few measurements, and it doesnt really seem that much bigger....

Isn't bigger always better?:D For not much more $, go with the 65 if you have the room. I have the 51" and sometimes wish that I had went w/ the 57.

2. Will the TV produce a good picture during the day (with the blinds closed)? There will not be any direct light hitting the screen, but obviously there's going to be ambient light in the basement.

My F59 sits in the lving room with several windows. Even w/ the blinds open mid-day, I see the pic just fine. Will shut blinds during daytime if I'm really wanting to get into a movie or something. Should be just fine in your basement.

3. Viewing angle. I intend to sit centered against the TV, so from what I heard it should be quite good. However, I've seen some crappy sets (RCA, not Hitachi) that would start to change brightness even as you moved your head around while sitting in the couch... that also depends on the viewing distance, but if I did my calculations correctly, 7-8 feet should be the correct viewing distance for a 65" TV according to the THX calculator. Will the Hitachi start showing those effects (dimmer corners, sides, etc) at that distance?

Head on view is best for any HDTV. That being said, even from an angle, the pic is still pretty bright. The distance you mention should be fine as well, and should minimize "dimming".

4. F710 vs F59. If I did my research correctly, the main difference is that the QAM tuner is not present on the F59, but that will not make any difference (in picture quality at least) if you're getting your HDTV through cable and feeding it over component to the TV.Internally, both models are essentially the same (in terms of optics/major components). If you are getting broadcast HD from cable/sat and will continue to do so, the lack of QAM tuner is a non-issue.

5. Is UECWeb a good place to order the set from? I heard good things about it, but figured I'd throw that question out there anyways.Since UEC is directly affiliated w/ Hitachi--it's the manufacturer's online "Store" for discontinued/refurb electronics--I would say yes! Their inventory changes weekly. sometime daily. SO if they have an F59/F710, jump on it. It won't last.

how much would it cost for you to make my tv better? I want to make it as best as i can but the set only cost me $700. currently the picture is good and the master reset didnt seem to change anything. the settings before it happened were written down and nothing changed? the only thing i noticed as of late is when im using SNES on my tv the screen intermittently shakes up and down(like a jitter) i havent had much time to play arround with it yet but it is concerning me.

Alright, I thought I would actually put some visuals up for this problem. This might not actually be a problem... but I'm pretty sure it is.

So, having seen a bunch of other HDTV's, I've noticed that my F59 65" appears to be "zoomed in" more than it should be. This is especially apparent on ESPN (ESPN2 in this case)... when compared to how the picture should look, mine appears to be zoomed in slightly. I'm running Dish Network via the HDMI cable... and I've checked my settings to make sure that they are correct (the TV's aspect setting is at 16:9 Normal... and the Dish Network setting is at HD:Normal). However, it still appears zoomed in. I'm wondering if this how all these F59's are... or if they should be appearing like every other HDTV that I've seen does.

It's not the worst problem in the world... I mean, you don't really notice it because the picture is still awesome. But part of the screen is being cut off... and that's not cool. I'm pretty sure that this is happening on every channel, but I took pics on ESPN2 just to give an idea of what is going on.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee168/awillquik/HD1.jpg

ESPN2 should like the above picture on my HDTV, shouldn't it?

Instead, it looks like this (I apologize for the blurry and overall bad picture... but the thing to focus on here is the "BottomLine"... as that's where you can see the discrepancy... the discrepancy is that the "Bottomline" should be "longer" on both sides, but it appears to be cut off... it also appears to be too low, and it is, but that is another problem altogether I think):

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee168/awillquik/Picture001.jpg

In case that didn't make any sense, I'm also including a picture of ESPN2HD during a commercial (when the side bars show up)... on other TV's, I see the whole ESPN2 logo on the side bars... but on my TV, part of the ESPN2 logo is cut off on the side bars (it's even worse on ESPN... basically half the logo is cut off):

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee168/awillquik/Picture002.jpg



Please help me fix this zoom in problem somehow, haha. I can live it with like this... like I said, doesn't appear to affect the picture quality at all, but I would prefer to see the whole picture if that is possible.

Can anyone tell me where to get the Hitachi DIY Guide.rtf. I have looked throughout the threads, and all of the links point to documents that no longer exist. If anyone has it and would like to e-mail to me I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

I need to find out what happened to my site. Will let you know when Comcast fixes things.

So, having seen a bunch of other HDTV's, I've noticed that my F59 65" appears to be "zoomed in" more than it should be.

That's probably overscan. My 51F59 has about 5%. It's slightly annoying but you can't do much about it without messing up the geometry.

Ryan

If you are getting broadcast HD from cable/sat and will continue to do so, the lack of QAM tuner is a non-issue.




QAM compression scheme is only on cable. If you don't have cable, and are only on OTA or sat, that is when it's a non-issue.


Mr Bob

Ok, I had to restore my site today, so the files are back. Wish I knew why all my data was gone.

how much would it cost for you to make my tv better? I want to make it as best as i can but the set only cost me $700. currently the picture is good and the master reset didnt seem to change anything. the settings before it happened were written down and nothing changed? the only thing i noticed as of late is when im using SNES on my tv the screen intermittently shakes up and down(like a jitter) i havent had much time to play arround with it yet but it is concerning me.


You have to get your thinking straight before we could have that discussion.

The fact that you only paid $700 for your set means you have a lot more $ to spend on perfecting its image than the guy who paid retail for the same thing, back before these current once in a lifetime days of sacrifice pricing on CRT tech, out in the marketplace. Whenever someone says they can't afford to pay more for calibration than what they paid for their set, the discussion is over, on my end. I can't deal with that kind of thinking. That's like being offered the pink slip on a perfectly operational and cosmetically flawless Lamborghini under the condition that it gets a $1000 tune-up. Would you use your current thinking on that deal - reject it because it would be more to tune the car up than the purchase price?

I just drove 3 hours to Chico and back for a way older 51" Hit, from the time before we could even regulate the internal grid's light level, and the picture came out absolutely scintillating, so good the viewer had to change his viewing distance from 10-11' down to 6-7', resulting in nearly doubling his viewed picture size. He is in heaven, just emailed me about all that, and how tickled pink he is.

He paid $1480 total (including the $360 in travel charges) plus you gotta count the 3 hour each way trip to my place that he took weeks ago, just to look at my displays in action. He stayed for 4 hours on that visit! He's a camp counselor.

And not every cal will cost that much. He wanted some extras. But you should budget at least $500.

He's in heaven. Are you?


BTW, there are 2 types of master reset - if you had hit the wrong one, you would not be nearly as comfy with the pic that woulda resulted, as you now seem to be, with your current pic. PLEASE stop trying to do a master reset! Next time you may get the other one!

What on earth is SNES???


Mr Bob

That's probably overscan. My 51F59 has about 5%. It's slightly annoying but you can't do much about it without messing up the geometry.

Ryan


Right. Couldn'ta said it bettah mahseff...

All CRT RPTV tech has overscan built in. It was their way of getting HD to the marketplace affordably, without doing it the extensive, expensive way, the way the ceiling pjs did it. Ceiling pjs are not overscanned, and can deliver everything, including all that is needed around all the edges, for using their displays as computer monitors.

Not so with RPTV tech. It is severely limited, compared to ceiling/front pj tech.

Reducing the overscan - raring it back down a ways, to where everything you need to see is restored to your view - is simple and straightforward.

Remedying how HUGELY badly your picture gets hosed when you do so, is where the talent comes in.

When you do so, tho, you not only get back lost areas of video real estate at the edges, you also get a much more dense pixel pack, per square inch of viewed video. When supertightly stitched together via high precision convergence on fully focused images, finally including areas that are currently missing, the net result is a much denser, much more high resolution HD image.

Allowing you to sit several feet closer to your display, increasing the net viewed size of your display immeasurably, and really tricking out your suspension of disbelief!


Mr Bob

What on earth is SNES???

Prolly Super Nintendo Entertainment System
:)

Greetings...

I have had this TV for about a year now and I had it calibrated from info provided on a Yahoo answers posting. I wanted to re-calibrate it but the posting is gone and, of course, I did not print it out. I clicked on LeeBailey's link for tweaks but that also appears to be a dead link.

Here are a few of the problems I have been having:

-Regular, non-HD, channels look terrible.

-When I use the HDMI cable for my up convert DVD player the picture is great but it will occasionally shift the screen to the left, turn the screen blue/green, or shut the TV off. When I use component cables it does not look as good.

I just want to get the most bang for my buck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Greetings...

I have had this TV for about a year now and I had it calibrated from info provided on a Yahoo answers posting. I wanted to re-calibrate it but the posting is gone and, of course, I did not print it out. I clicked on LeeBailey's link for tweaks but that also appears to be a dead link.

Here are a few of the problems I have been having:

-Regular, non-HD, channels look terrible.

-When I use the HDMI cable for my up convert DVD player the picture is great but it will occasionally shift the screen to the left, turn the screen blue/green, or shut the TV off. When I use component cables it does not look as good.

I just want to get the most bang for my buck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

There are at least 4 threads in this section dedicated to Hitachis. Need to search them out, there is tons of info on how to improve them over OOB performance.

First thing you need to do is find Jwebb's service bulletin on how to remedy the fubar on Hitachi's original factory HDMI design, and go from there. It is a set of resettings of the sm that eliminate all by the horizontal shifting, which last I heard is still being worked on at Hit central.


Mr Bob

I have the 51" Hitachi and had mine ISF calibrated not long ago. Thought I'd share my settings.

SERVICE MENU CHANGES:

APRTR-3 (APRTR-NTSC): 00
APRTR-G (APRTR-SDTV): 00
APRTR-I (APRTR-HDTV): 00
COLORG: 01
SRTGA: 00
STATG1: 06
STATG2: 00

WHITE BAL HIGH:
G DRV HIGH - 2B
R DRV HIGH - 15
R CUT HIGH - 8A
G CUT HIGH - 7E
B CUT HIGH - 99

WHITE BAL MED:
G DRV MED - 4B
R DRV MED - 56
R CUT MED - 70
G CUT MED - 92
B CUT MED - 7F

WHIT BAL STD:
G DRV STD - 50
R DRV STD - 55
R CUT STD - 7F
G CUT STD - 7F
B CUT STD - 7F


And here are the user settings:

For HD sources:

NIGHT:
CONT - 36
BRIGHT - 58
COL - 60
TINT - 4 clicks to left
SHARP - 48
COL TEMP - MED

DAY:
CONT - 41
BRIGHT - 60
COL - 61
TINT - 4 clicks to left
SHARP - 50
COL TEMP - MED

For SD sources:

NIGHT:
CONT - 48
BRIGHT - 58
COL - 65
TINT - 4 clicks to left
SHARP - 40
COL TEMP - MED

DAY:
CONT - 50
BRIGHT - 60
COL - 66
TINT - 4 clicks to left
SHARP - 30
COL TEMP - MED

All enhancements and NR set to "OFF"

Sorry, money is tight and I do not mean to sound cheap. I am interested in fixing overscan and making my set look as good as possible. I am an avid DIYer and dont mind spending sometime to learn and do it right. Any information or supplies I will need to complete a full calibration and where to get them at competitive prices.

The screen shake associated with my SNES(Super Nintendo) seems to be related with the SNES and not with the TV.

Just to clairify, I accidentally did the fact reset on the main service menu (only once) when I first went in to complete the HDMI fix. Since then I have not done it again and do not plan on it.

Thank you all for your help and support. One day I hope I will have the glorius picture you all speak of.

Sorry, money is tight and I do not mean to sound cheap. I am interested in fixing overscan and making my set look as good as possible. I am an avid DIYer and dont mind spending sometime to learn and do it right. Any information or supplies I will need to complete a full calibration and where to get them at competitive prices.

The screen shake associated with my SNES(Super Nintendo) seems to be related with the SNES and not with the TV.

Just to clairify, I accidentally did the fact reset on the main service menu (only once) when I first went in to complete the HDMI fix. Since then I have not done it again and do not plan on it.

Thank you all for your help and support. One day I hope I will have the glorius picture you all speak of.

I am always available to anyone who asks, for a phone consultation, during which I would be glad to answer any and all questions about all phases of calibration.

Contact me for rates, it's prolly inappropriate for me to print them here unless someone out there on this thread asks me to.

Have never had the Hit factory reset situation to deal with before now. Ferreting out whatever would be necessary would be best done on location, but much can still be done on the phone if it has to be done that way.


Mr Bob

Can anyone corroborate the settings posted by worth? I understand that every set is slightly different, but I stumbled upon a thread on another forum in which someone else posted very similar settings. That leads me to believe that the same settings can be used on most sets with minor adjustments.

I suppose it's similar to the idea behind user settings. Sure, there are variables, such as lighting and slight deviations across sets, but there are universal settings, and most sets will work great with those, again, with minor adjustments.

Please chime in on this :)

Can anyone corroborate the settings posted by worth? I understand that every set is slightly different, but I stumbled upon a thread on another forum in which someone else posted very similar settings. That leads me to believe that the same settings can be used on most sets with minor adjustments.

I suppose it's similar to the idea behind user settings. Sure, there are variables, such as lighting and slight deviations across sets, but there are universal settings, and most sets will work great with those, again, with minor adjustments.

Please chime in on this :)


You'll prolly have good luck with everything but grayscale, whose sm settings are based on where the Screen trimpots are set on the focus block, and where the blue focus trimpot is set, on that same block.

In which case, every set will be more than just a little different.


Mr Bob

Can anyone corroborate the settings posted by worth? I understand that every set is slightly different, but I stumbled upon a thread on another forum in which someone else posted very similar settings. That leads me to believe that the same settings can be used on most sets with minor adjustments.

I suppose it's similar to the idea behind user settings. Sure, there are variables, such as lighting and slight deviations across sets, but there are universal settings, and most sets will work great with those, again, with minor adjustments.

Please chime in on this :)

WB settings can and will vary from one TV to the next, due to (I'm assuming----Mr. Bob, comment/correcxt me on this if you would, please;)) several variables. Both in viewing environment and physical diffs in the CRTs themselves. One person's post-calibration settings may not look so hot on another's TV.

Keep in mind that video calibration is much more than just altering service menu parameters. Some folks can get close (and a fraction of those might get "all the way") doing such work on their own. I am one who has gotten real close (by my estimation) but that doesn't mean that someone like Mr Bob couldn't make my pic better - and I still hope to get him down my way one day soon to do the "final touches". My own experiences with Hitachi CRT RPTVs has given me a certain intuitive grasp of calibrating/tweaking MY display. But my limited knowledge is severly dwarfed by someone like Mr Bob.

If you just have to try another user's post-cal sm settings, please make sure you are both careful in the serivce menu (VERY easy for the noob/uninitiated to completely FUBAR the picture) and to make sure you write down EVERY existing sm parameter value BEFORE you change it. If the change results in a negative result, having the original OOB setting in front of you makes it easy to at least get back to step 1.

Or.....contact Bob, Glen C or another ISF cal/tech in your area. They can be found thru the AVS Forum pretty easily.

You'll prolly have good luck with everything but grayscale, whose sm settings are based on where the Screen trimpots are set on the focus block, and where the blue focus trimpot is set, on that same block.

In which case, every set will be more than just a little different.


Mr Bob
Well, I'm a tweakster :)

I know the init and calibrated settings from someone else's set. Unless my init settings are totally off, I should be able to get pretty close to his level without hurting anything, right? I can always go back to the old settings if there are any problems.

If I'm being stupid, tell me. I'm not above that :D

Well, I did some prior SM tweaks. I did all the 1360 changes and I recently performed the HDMI fix, so I know a little, but by no means am I an expert. But I always make note of the init settings.

PS: I find it very interesting that my previous post was #1080. I believe it to be a sign ;)

Well, I'm a tweakster :)

I know the init and calibrated settings from someone else's set. Unless my init settings are totally off, I should be able to get pretty close to his level without hurting anything, right? I can always go back to the old settings if there are any problems.

If I'm being stupid, tell me. I'm not above that :D

As I said, fine on everything but the grayscale.

If you even TOUCH those Screen or Blue Focus trimpots, you're on your own. Everything downline from that, that depends on those settings, gets hosed.


Mr Bob

As I said, fine on everything but the grayscale.

If you even TOUCH those Screen or Blue Focus trimpots, you're on your own. Everything downline from that, that depends on those settings, gets hosed.


Mr Bob
Oh no, I won't touch the physical components. SM tweaks is as far as I go.

By the way, don't the white balance settings affect the gray scale?

Oh no, I won't touch the physical components. SM tweaks is as far as I go.

By the way, don't the white balance settings affect the gray scale?

Yes.

All this drama for nothing. I checked the white balance settings in the service menu and they coincide with the calibrated values, which were posted on several sites---at least for STD. HIGH and MED are different, but I don't use those anyways.

No tweaking required :)

Not so much a response to sgietz (glad to hear all is looking well, from the sound of it), but a minor WB question to Bob.

Don't the HIGH & MED WB paramters, when altered, effect color on STD as well? It always seemed that altering HIGH, for example, also altered the other 2 color temps - as if WB settings for all 3 temps are "intertwined", so to speak.

Not so much a response to sgietz (glad to hear all is looking well, from the sound of it), but a minor WB question to Bob.

Don't the HIGH & MED WB paramters, when altered, effect color on STD as well? It always seemed that altering HIGH, for example, also altered the other 2 color temps - as if WB settings for all 3 temps are "intertwined", so to speak.

I've never tested for it, but I would say yes to that question.

In the service manual, they only instruct to set the High setting to D10500K.

This tells me that they expect when that is set correctly, that the STD SHOULD fall into place as D6500K (who knows?).

If you want STD to be correct, do STD to D6500K and move on. You don't need any of the others anyway.

I have always been of the opinion that the manufacturers give us 3 choices of color temp in the usually vain hope that ONE of them will fall SOMEWHERE near D6500K...

:p


Mr Bob

I've never tested for it, but I would say yes to that question.

In the service manual, they only instruct to set the High setting to D10500K.

This tells me that they expect when that is set correctly, that the STD SHOULD fall into place as D6500K (who knows?).

If you want STD to be correct, do STD to D6500K and move on. You don't need any of the others anyway.

I have always been of the opinion that the manufacturers give us 3 choices of color temp in the usually vain hope that ONE of them will fall SOMEWHERE near D6500K...

:p


Mr Bob

Wouldn't this be a good way to have a perfect grayscale for up to 3 different types of inputs? Don't Component/Composite/S-video use a different color coordinate system then HD over HDMI? Of course, what I have not been able to get an answer from Hitachi on, is whether or not the Virtual HD is converting everything to REC 709. Were you able to check this when you calibrated that 51" model?

Not so much a response to sgietz (glad to hear all is looking well, from the sound of it), but a minor WB question to Bob.

Don't the HIGH & MED WB paramters, when altered, effect color on STD as well? It always seemed that altering HIGH, for example, also altered the other 2 color temps - as if WB settings for all 3 temps are "intertwined", so to speak.

You and Mr. Bob are correct. High is the baseline color temp with both Standard and Medium being offsets. So calibrate High first then Med or Std if using multiple grayscale calibrations. As an alternative you could calibrate Standard and Medium, but not touch High if only using two color temp memories.

Edited to add the last sentence.

I guess I spoke too soon. I was under the impression that the HIGH and MED setting didn't affect the STD (funny abbreviation anyways) settings.

I'll try it tonight.

Wouldn't this be a good way to have a perfect grayscale for up to 3 different types of inputs? Don't Component/Composite/S-video use a different color coordinate system then HD over HDMI? Of course, what I have not been able to get an answer from Hitachi on, is whether or not the Virtual HD is converting everything to REC 709. Were you able to check this when you calibrated that 51" model?


I calibrate STD to D6500K, then doublecheck that it carries, on all of the higher echelon inputs/scanrates when they are set to the middle setting, which I believe on Hit is Medium. This is usually 480p and/or 1080i - sometimes they share the same memory bank on colorations - on component and HDMI, and does not usually include composite or S, both of which are pretty primitive by now, and not requested by the owners I work with. What is in there already is usually close enough for such primitive formats, tho I am willing to do them as well - if possible individually - as extras.

If one mode applies to all, like on Sonys, there may be a slight difference in grayscale between one and the other, which is not realignable individually. In such a case, the most prevalant mode/input type/scanrate must be prioritized. On Sonys this is usually not necessary, as once set to D6500K on any of the above, their grayscale stays true on all of the above.

On Pioneer, it is necessary to do S video to get STD baselined on all platforms, so on a Pioneer I start at S and go from there.

IMHO, there is no need to calibrate any color temp setting other than D6500K.


What is REC 709?


Mr Bob

I'm sure Mr. Bob could could improve my PQ tons more, but I think I made it look as best as I can without any special tools. I'm pleased with the picture as is and don't feel the need to go any further ;)

What is REC 709?


Mr Bob

The CIE spec for HD. I believe this is really for the Primary / Secondary colors, not grayscale.

The CIE spec for HD. I believe this is really for the Primary / Secondary colors, not grayscale.



If it's for the colors, how does it relate to SMPTE colors for CRT, which are the original NTSC colors? Does it take the place of that for fixed pixel bulb driven devices, which don't use SMPTE colors?


Mr Bob

Well, that was fun. Mostly, anyway.
Finally got around to addressing the out-of-focus red corner. Readers of this forum will recognize that as a Scheimpfluge problem (even though the spell check doesn't recognize it). Cleaned everything else up (mostly) while I was at it. Not a bad way to spend a cold, rainy weekend.
There are 14 screws holding the screen in from the back. If you've ever done a mechanical focus adjustment, there are just two additional screws to remove in the front. Before you pop the screen off, disconnect the three Magic Focus connectors (they're different sizes, so you can't mix them up [heck, even *I* couldn't mix them up]).

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/47/magicfocus1ak7.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4083/magicfocus2bp6.jpg

So here's the inside of your set:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1777/insidezo2.jpg

I cleaned the colored lenses while I was at it. Amazing how many large chunks of junk are just sitting there (and how quickly they return when you try to clean them off):

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2039/lensdirtyvd3.jpg

And after:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9406/lenscleanyk3.jpg

And the lenses on top:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8855/topdirtysp6.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4828/topcleantx0.jpg

The red lens needed three washers to even out the Scheimpfluge problem. I used lock washers, figuring I would benefit from the "springiness" just like the PJ hotshots (I believe projectors have spring-loaded lenses for this adjustment). It's still a lot of trial and error (N.B.: A *LOT* OF TRIAL AND ERROR), but I ended up doing it on the green, too. The blue was close enough.

The geometry, of course, gets totally messed up, so you need to redo convergence. I took advantage of this and made sure my circles are perfectly round (they weren't). I used string to make my green lines straight, then matched red and blue to green.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7598/overscande2.jpg

I still hate the way my screenshots are coming out, but here's Jennifer, a little blurrier and less saturated than she is on the set:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6930/jenniferyp5.jpg

More screenshots in another post; ImageShack hasn't been very cooperative this evening.

So that's it. Of course, this probably voids every warranty on the planet, so the Secretary will disavow all knowledge of your activities.

Michael

ImageShack finally has my uploads available, so here (for what it's worth) are the last of my screenshots. Just too frustrating trying to get them as good as they should be.
If you have an HD player, at your earliest convenience, get Planet Earth. You will be blown away.

But first, the restaurant scene from DVE:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4140/restaurantsz4.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2026/petitlejg8.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4237/pe3ju0.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4686/pe4ml4.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7623/pe1ad0.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/504/pe2by9.jpg

Based on your pics of the inside of the TV, it looks as though it's already black on the inside. So doing the black velvet lining wouldn't help. Or am I wrong?

Based on your pics of the inside of the TV, it looks as though it's already black on the inside. So doing the black velvet lining wouldn't help. Or am I wrong?

There is a bunch of wood, and the tray for the crt's is metal. I honestly had thought about it ("Overkill" is my middle name), but decided solving another problem I wasn't having didn't make sense. I guess if you have some Black Velvet, you may as well drink it.
[That's going to confuse someone.:)]
Michael

Well, that was fun. Mostly, anyway.
Finally got around to addressing the out-of-focus red corner. Readers of this forum will recognize that as a Scheimpfluge problem (even though the spell check doesn't recognize it). Cleaned everything else up (mostly) while I was at it. Not a bad way to spend a cold, rainy weekend.
There are 14 screws holding the screen in from the back. If you've ever done a mechanical focus adjustment, there are just two additional screws to remove in the front. Before you pop the screen off, disconnect the three Magic Focus connectors (they're different sizes, so you can't mix them up [heck, even *I* couldn't mix them up]).

I cleaned the colored lenses while I was at it. Amazing how many large chunks of junk are just sitting there (and how quickly they return when you try to clean them off):

The red lens needed three washers to even out the Scheimpfluge problem. I used lock washers, figuring I would benefit from the "springiness" just like the PJ hotshots (I believe projectors have spring-loaded lenses for this adjustment). It's still a lot of trial and error (N.B.: A *LOT* OF TRIAL AND ERROR), but I ended up doing it on the green, too. The blue was close enough.

The geometry, of course, gets totally messed up, so you need to redo convergence. I took advantage of this and made sure my circles are perfectly round (they weren't). I used string to make my green lines straight, then matched red and blue to green.

I still hate the way my screenshots are coming out, but here's Jennifer, a little blurrier and less saturated than she is on the set:

More screenshots in another post; ImageShack hasn't been very cooperative this evening.

So that's it. Of course, this probably voids every warranty on the planet, so the Secretary will disavow all knowledge of your activities.

Michael

I did the same thing this weekend, to the same colors. I left blue alone, although I originally thought I would have to work on it. I almost gave up after a few hours. I could not get red to cooperate. I still have some blurriness on both sides of the screen, but it is much better. It is almost like the lens for red is not the correct thickness in either the center or the sides. To focus both sides of the screen for red, the lens needs to be moved farther away from the CRT. But that puts the center out of focus. There is no combination of washers that will do what I need (unless I am doing something wrong). Green and blue are pretty tight now.

I could not get red to cooperate. I still have some blurriness on both siddes of the screen, but it is much better.

As long as it is even, that is the best you can do. So I have been told, anyway. If it's better, then you can converge it better, and the end result is better.
I know I noticed a difference.
Have you reduced the overscan? If it's blurry after that, you may have gone too far.
Michael

I did reduce overscan to about 4% all around after the Scheimpfluge changes. If there is a trick to getting it less blurry, I'm all ears. Even before the fix, both sides would get more focused as the lens was moved farther away, which in turn made the center blurry. The left of the screen was more blurry than the right, so after I put washers under both of the right screws of the lens, the red was equal blurry on right and left, but still out of focus with center. I could get one side equal to the center, but basically I just subtracted the out-of-focus from one side and added to the other, making the out-of-focus side worse than when I started.

That's probably the best you can do. If it's just the very edge that's blurry, increasing the overscan (more overscan = more image off-screen) will at least leave you with a sharper picture. You're probably fine with what you have.
I have read where people have evened the focus so that it is "out" everywhere, but I think it's probably better to have the center in sharp focus, even if at the expense of the edges. You have nothing to lose by trying it, anyway; the convergence won't change with a little change in the electrostatic focus.
Experiment, have fun, good luck.

The inside of that set is atrociously NOT black! It is about as bad as it gets.

The inside of a Mit or a Pio will be all black except for some shiny screws and staples that still need attention. And shiny wingnuts.

Picture a bellows camera from the old days, and go inside. EVERY surface in there has black felt on it. That's how they took such great pictures, with true inky blacks.

The best binocs and telescopes have internally coated lenses also, which NO CRT RPTV has, that I have ever seen. The difference between internally coated binocs and those that are not makes the set that I have that is not coated internally, UNUSABLE at concerts! Just too many reflections flying around in there as I pan here and there. The Bushnells with the coated lenses are far superior, even if they are not as strong as the other ones. The Bushnells leave the frickin' center image alone, they don't surround it with heavily distracting flying after images, like the other set does!

Some RPTVs are coated on the tops of the lenses, which is a very good idea, and some even have dyed coolant, dyed to the color of the CRT.

ALL these shiny things - including the non-shiny but still loud particle board, which is very LIGHT and has about half the impinging value of shiny stuff - impinge on your set's ability to achieve deep blacks, and thus depth.

At the very least use a BIG black magic marker and make everything in there black, including the white wiring, and whatever that's white or shiny on the board, like the metal tops of the capacitors.

Duvetyne is the real way to go, but a huge Sharpie will work wonders in just a few minutes. I do it all the time in my calibrations.


You won't get perfect optical focusing out to the edges on those lenses, they are just not expensive enough. The best way is to average the error with SOME error happening in the middle - not a lot, but a bit anyway, just over the edge in that direction - and more out at the edges, with the area midway between the center and edge being in the finest focus possible.

Try that -


BTW, Michael, that's an excellent circle there, you got it very good. And the geometry is excellent all around! I think I saw some blue misconvergence on the e of earth in the planet earth title, but overall that overscan pattern looks great!

;)


Mr Bob

At the very least use a BIG black magic marker and make everything in there black, including the white wiring, and whatever that's white or shiny on the board, like the tops of the capacitors.

Duvetyne is the real way to go, but a huge Sharpie will work wonders in just a few minutes. I do it all the time in my calibrations.

Though I kidded about voiding the warranty, I really would be concerned about doing that myself. However, I was considering, next time I had the screen off, making something (Duvetyne, perhaps) to cover the bottom.

Speaking of which, any suggestions about my problem posted in the original Hitachi thread:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7462/helpqs2.jpg

If you are talking about the non-linear whites, lenstriping will prolly help, but is a moving target. I have seen how to do it be all over the place.

I have also found that the closer your cam is to your screen, the worse your color - including white - linearity is to the cam lens, even tho to the eye it still looks great. I was shooting from 6' away, I now shoot from 10' away, using a bit of telephoto.


Here's some shots from my 73" Mit. Notice the death-defying - bulb-driven RPTV defying, anyway - blacks -

Hit F11 to show less of your computer graphics and more of the pictures.

You can see the green Mit indicator light below the pic, plus sometimes the lights from the instruments riding the top of my set, like the "Video 1" up there on my Outlaw amp.

These are taken with the 1.2M setting on my 3.2MP Toshiba digital cam with 10x (optical) Canon lens. I had to severely lower the light level of my screen on the bottom one to keep from overmodulating the light level on the cam, where the aperture and shutter are automatic, and so far - I am still looking into it - impossible for me to change -


No reason your sets out there shouldn't look at least close to this kind of fidelity, after one of my calibrations -

;)



http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4131/111707samples7frommit73rq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2278/111707samples7frommit73ik8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BTW, Michael, that's a excellent circle there, you got it very good. And the geometry is excellent all around! I think I saw some blue misconvergence on the e of earth in the planet earth title, but overall that overscan pattern looks great!

Many thanks. I thought that was what you were referring to: the "e" is actually supposed to be like that. See Cliff's (huge) version on the screenshots thread. I figure if I can get my stuff to look something like that, I'm heading in the right direction.
Next time you find it on sale, get the Planet Earth set. It's fabulous.
I found an exposure setting on my camera which I set to full dark; I guess changing the brightness on the set accomplishes the same thing. I also have a blue/red color setting, which I have all the way to red. Photoshop helps a little, too, so the end result at least has some resemblance to what I see in my living room.
Still not nearly as sharp as it should be, though. I gave up and put away the tripod. But I may be persuaded to try again (I'm stupid that way).
I'll give the lens-striping a try. I may also try covering the bottom with something black. Pictures of that will follow.
Thanks again for all your help and encouragement.
Would be nice if you had a branch office on the east coast.

Michael

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement.
Would be nice if you had a branch office on the east coast.

Michael

I've been to the East Coast twice already this year, working mostly on Pioneer Elites.

Form a cal tour and I will come!


Mr Bob

If you are talking about the non-linear whites, lenstriping will prolly help, but is a moving target. I have seen how to do it be all over the place.

Yup, you're a genius. A little tape on the right side of green did the trick. I'll add a little to red when I get inside, if I ever find Duvetyne or Commando Cloth (fabric store on my way home never heard of it - not a good sign), so I can kill two birds with one stone.

I've been to the East Coast twice already this year, working mostly on Pioneer Elites.
Form a cal tour and I will come!

Ultimate plan is to get the set upstairs into a small room that will be a fantastic home theater. Have to wait for my folks to be out the house first, though, by which time we may all be setting up holograms.

Yup, you're a genius. A little tape on the right side of green did the trick. I'll add a little to red when I get inside, if I ever find Duvetyne or Commando Cloth (fabric store on my way home never heard of it - not a good sign), so I can kill two birds with one stone.


Try this:
Rose Brands Duvetyne (http://www.rosebrand.com/shop/results.aspx?keywords=duvetyne)

They even sell it on a tape roll:
Rose Brands Specialty Tape (http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory206/tape-specialty.aspx)

Try this:
Rose Brands Duvetyne (http://www.rosebrand.com/shop/results.aspx?keywords=duvetyne)


Thanks, Lee, but this is the problem:
Merchandise Total: $5.31
Shipping: $12.94
Estimated Tax: $1.28
Total: $19.53

I did a Fr/Google search and came up with about $15. I'll keep trying locally. Since this is really just another case of overkill in action, I won't lose sleep over it.
But, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing.

Michael

So, as you may recall, dear reader, I had a "stain" on the right edge that went away when I pushed the screen in slightly. That got me to realize that I could push the screen in quite a bit (half an inch in the center), so, the next time I had the screen off, I loosened the screen support on the side, allowed the screen to straighten itself out, and retightened the support. Not quite "tight as a drum" but certainly much less flex.
Of course, that completely threw off the Scheimpfluge adjustments I had made last week, so I redid those, got the mirror "invisible," did the lens striping, and put the screen back for the last time. The Duvetyne will have to wait, since I couldn't find any locally and I'm NOT going to remove the screen again until next year's round of optics cleaning.
So here's the last batch of lousy photos. Still too blue and blurry (on the photos - the screen image is terrific), but you can notice an improvement from earlier postings of the problem.
I may actually put DVE back in the case for a while.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8045/overscaned4.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4349/jenniferwe8.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6760/restaurantbg9.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1610/mountainpl1.jpg

Thanks to all for suggestions and support.
Michael

I just came across this thread today with some interest as my 57T500 is currently suffering from overscan. I used the Avia test pattern and it's showing about 8% overscan. I'd like to correct it but see comments that a dcam convergence would have to be performed afterwards.

I've never attempted it but am interested in doing so. Is there anyone that can walk me through it or provide me with whatever info I need to get it done? I see I need to get some sort of a jig??? Not sure what these even look like....

Any feedback would be appreciated.

PJStyles

So, as you may recall, dear reader, I had a "stain" on the right edge that went away when I pushed the screen in slightly. That got me to realize that I could push the screen in quite a bit (half an inch in the center), so, the next time I had the screen off, I loosened the screen support on the side, allowed the screen to straighten itself out, and retightened the support. Not quite "tight as a drum" but certainly much less flex.
Of course, that completely threw off the Scheimpfluge adjustments I had made last week, so I redid those, got the mirror "invisible," did the lens striping, and put the screen back for the last time. The Duvetyne will have to wait, since I couldn't find any locally and I'm NOT going to remove the screen again until next year's round of optics cleaning.
So here's the last batch of lousy photos. Still too blue and blurry (on the photos - the screen image is terrific), but you can notice an improvement from earlier postings of the problem.
I may actually put DVE back in the case for a while.

Thanks to all for suggestions and support.
Michael
That's quite nice! I'm impressed with the geometry; it looks to be spot on.

Anyway, something occurred to me that, I'm sure, some of you may agree with. Most of us have done the basic adjustments, played around in the service menu, and fiddled with the user settings.

Do you think I'm correct in saying that many advanced adjustments have little to no effect on actual picture quality, and the perceived improvement is merely a perception of our brains, similar to double-blind tests that have been performed with high-end speaker cables? The idea is that, if you think there's an improvement, you will notice an improvement, whether it's true, or not.

If this is the case, then tweaking certainly does have value as long as our brain tells us there is an improvement, even if no measurable difference results. But it's also notable that, knowing this about our brains, we can be happy without the risk of botching up one of our most prices possessions.

OK, after reading the last paragraph, I sound like a mega geek, but I suppose most of us on here are just that :)

I don't want to sound too analytical, but I believe my observation has some merit. I guess this is the wrong place for a post such as this. I figured I'd throw it out there.

I just came across this thread today with some interest as my 57T500 is currently suffering from overscan. I used the Avia test pattern and it's showing about 8% overscan. I'd like to correct it but see comments that a dcam convergence would have to be performed afterwards.

I've never attempted it but am interested in doing so. Is there anyone that can walk me through it or provide me with whatever info I need to get it done? I see I need to get some sort of a jig??? Not sure what these even look like....

Any feedback would be appreciated.

PJStyles

The short version is that overscan reduction would require you to adjust the H/V image size via the "size pots" (the white plastic "philips head" pots located on the circuit boards on the inner base of the set - access panel behind spkr grill will get you there). That part's easy - you can use the AVIA oscan pattern to get it here you want. According to Mr Bob, during his calibrations he shoots for 4-4.5% oscan all around.

The hard part is what correcting what the reducing the image size does to convergence/geometry. it will totally hose your image structure. It is correctable, but both patience & a familiarity w/ the Hitachi DCAM functions is neccessary.

As far as a screen jig, the Hitachi jigs are sized for "factory specs". Once you reduce oscan,the factory jig is useless. On my F59, that "spec" has overscan @ 5-5.5% L/R, 3.5-4% top/bottom. I got mine down to 4 all around using the above mentioned method. Used ext video sources (crosshatch grids, H/V scrolling text--like movie credits or CNN/ESPN news tickers, DirecTv on screen guide grid, DVD/HD video w/ lots of panning still images--Discovery Channel/NatGeoHD docs usually have lots of this) to iron out geo linearity issues. Took quite a bit of time, but everything is dialed in now.

You might consider doing a phone consult w/ Mr Bob. Cheaper than flying him out to yo and he may be able to walk you thru stuff. Worth a shot.

Back on the 1st/2nd page of this thread, I posted the how-to's of getting an F59 (will work with most other late model Hitachi CRT RPTVs, too) back to factory spec oscan/geometry using a screen jig. A post or 2 prior to that, a member by the name of cavery posted .pdfs of the F59 screen jigs (51,57 & 65"). These can be loaded onto a CD or other storage medium and fed to an AutoCAD to print full size either on clear mylar or translucent vellum (Kinkos or similar print shops should have this ability). May want to check that out. I am assuming that the 57" F59 jig is essentially the same dimensions as your 57" model. Might be able to at least get your oscan down to around 5% via that method. Would be better than the 8% you are getting now.

Link to jig post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9567850#post9567850

Link to how-to post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9642993#post9642993

Do you think I'm correct in saying that many advanced adjustments have little to no effect on actual picture quality, and the perceived improvement is merely a perception of our brains, similar to double-blind tests that have been performed with high-end speaker cables? The idea is that, if you think there's an improvement, you will notice an improvement, whether it's true, or not.

Many thanks.
One of the things I appreciate about the service menu adjustments is that the changes are "live." You can see the difference when you change COLORG from 00 to 01, for example. There's been some debate about the value of changing SRTGA, so try it and see what you think (I use the above overscan image for that, since you can see the change in sharpness). Jennifer (Model w/Chip Chart) is my reference for color, since most sets have her looking sunburn red.
Some of the subtle changes are probably only noticeable to Jedi like Mr. Bob, who I do hope to have out one day to do my set right (if I haven't screwed it up too badly by then). For a long time I preferred the cooler temperature setting, but I changed it back after a while. So play around, keep track of the original settings, and see what happens. I've had a blast.
Never tried Monster Cables. Who knows?

Michael

On my F59, that "spec" has overscan @ 5-5.5% L/R, 3.5-4% top/bottom. I got mine down to 4 all around using the above mentioned method.

When I did that, my circles weren't round. You may want to check that next time your feeling anal enough.

Michael

Many thanks.
One of the things I appreciate about the service menu adjustments is that the changes are "live." You can see the difference when you change COLORG from 00 to 01, for example. There's been some debate about the value of changing SRTGA, so try it and see what you think (I use the above overscan image for that, since you can see the change in sharpness). Jennifer (Model w/Chip Chart) is my reference for color, since most sets have her looking sunburn red.
Some of the subtle changes are probably only noticeable to Jedi like Mr. Bob, who I do hope to have out one day to do my set right (if I haven't screwed it up too badly by then). For a long time I preferred the cooler temperature setting, but I changed it back after a while. So play around, keep track of the original settings, and see what happens. I've had a blast.
Never tried Monster Cables. Who knows?

Michael
No doubt, the red push setting is by far the most dramatic (to me at least). There are many other settings that offer little change, and the effects can be debated. I guess it comes down to personal preference. I'm pretty satisfied with my TV's settings. I don't have the b**** to venture into dangerous territory, such as lens striping, taking off the screen, etc. :)

I can't complain. I think my PQ is pretty darn close to the real thing and I don't feel the need to pay extra to squeeze every last vibrant pixel out of the TV (I suppose pixel is incorrect for RPTVs).

This thread certainly helped me, and many others, to achieve great PQ without calling the local tweakster ;)

When I did that, my circles weren't round. You may want to check that next time your feeling anal enough.

Michael


By putting your set @ factory spec (5-5.5% : 3.5-4%) o'scan or 4% all around?

@ 4%, circles are round on mine.

@ 4%, circles are round on mine.

Somehow I knew you'd checked.:)
Screenshot above shows where my overscan is now, with round circles.
I wonder how many people out there actually care.:D
The few, the proud....
Oh, that's taken already.

I have to say that all of the tweaks offer noticable changes to the picture for the better, but nothing, and I mean nothing has improved my picture more than tweaking the color decorder controls and the grayscale. Going from a million colors to a Zillion, as well as introducing a fair amount of depth to the image. It really takes it from really good to WOW. I can't wait to have it calibrated professionally and see it improve even more. But boys I'm telling you, the color decoding and grayscale on top of the other tweaks is where it's at. And yes I know the grayscale can't be done by eye, but it can sure be improved upon.

So, as you may recall, dear reader, I had a "stain" on the right edge that went away when I pushed the screen in slightly. That got me to realize that I could push the screen in quite a bit (half an inch in the center), so, the next time I had the screen off, I loosened the screen support on the side, allowed the screen to straighten itself out, and retightened the support. Not quite "tight as a drum" but certainly much less flex.
Of course, that completely threw off the Scheimpfluge adjustments I had made last week, so I redid those, got the mirror "invisible," did the lens striping, and put the screen back for the last time. The Duvetyne will have to wait, since I couldn't find any locally and I'm NOT going to remove the screen again until next year's round of optics cleaning.
So here's the last batch of lousy photos. Still too blue and blurry (on the photos - the screen image is terrific), but you can notice an improvement from earlier postings of the problem.
I may actually put DVE back in the case for a while.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8045/overscaned4.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4349/jenniferwe8.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6760/restaurantbg9.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1610/mountainpl1.jpg

Thanks to all for suggestions and support.
Michael

MUCH MUCH Better! Especially Jennifer.

So is there a way for me to get my 57T500 back to "spec" of 5-5.5% overscan with throwing the whole picture for a loop and requiring a manual DCAM Convergence? Or any adjustment whatsoever will throw the picture for a loop?

I wish there was a more detailed DIY with pictures on how to do a manual convergence.

I wish there was a more detailed DIY with pictures on how to do a manual convergence.

Just try it. If you don't think it's going well, just turn the set off and you'll be back to where you started.
Key point: don't move green. That's your primary marker. Move red to green, then blue (which is the hardest for me, I find it very hard to see clearly).
And/or call Mr. Bob.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8045/overscaned4.jpg



Thanks to all for suggestions and support.
Michael


If this is a direct copy from the original VE, it's off, don't trust it unless you've checked it out. VE's geometry has never been right, and back then we didn't have anything to use that was accurate until AVIA came along. When the sides are set for 16x9, the circle is not a circle. When the circle IS a circle, it doesn't fit 16x9 properly.

I DK if Joe got it right when he designed DVE, because it is so hard to surf that I gave up on it long ago.


BTW, the newer Hits don't require going into the sm or DCAM to do supertight convergence. As long as the grid light level has been reduced in the sm, the USER point sys can be used instead, as it carries to the DCAM point sys.

As such, you can supertighten your pic using only User, and not needing to worry about getting into sm or DCAM convergence.

Michael, I know you already know that, I am using your post to chat with other owners...


:D

Mr Bob

PS - Thanks for the check! I promise to not pay any bills with it, but to use it strictly for something totally unnecessary! Like maybe a couple of HD DVDs...

;)


Mr Bob

Mr. Bob i know this is probably on a different thread but did the image shift issue ever get resolved with hitachi on the f59s? I havent been on in a while.
Thanks a lot

Hi,
This may be a stupid question but I have my Avia disc in to adjust items & the convergence is only displaying in 4x3, I have a Hitachi 57F59A. Am I missing something, I cant find any adjustments to get the convergence grid to be in 16x9.
Thanks

I want to try it but don't I need some sort of a grid/template first? or can I just go ahead and do it?

Hi,
This may be a stupid question but I have my Avia disc in to adjust items & the convergence is only displaying in 4x3, I have a Hitachi 57F59A. Am I missing something, I cant find any adjustments to get the convergence grid to be in 16x9.
Thanks

Press "input" 5 times.
When pressed once, changes to blue.

Go to the first page of this thread and read/download the information in the first couple of posts.

I want to try it but don't I need some sort of a grid/template first? or can I just go ahead and do it?

When you enter convergence mode (at least on my 57F59), a white grid appears. That's what you match red and blue to.
Serious changes in geometry require a jig and moving everything, which you really want to avoid (trust me), but user convergence is pretty safe.

Ok, I've been a very happy owner since purchasing this tv quite a while ago because of all the wonderful comments and suggestions here.

However, I'm starting to have a problem that is seriously troubling me. Watching DVD's on my Oppo upconvert DVD player I am getting an almost faint like burn in when a scene switches or there is heavy black. Or when the DVD screensaver comes up each time it moves it leaves a impression where the previous one was. And this is for each one. Is my tv starting to go? I haven't noticed this watching any DirecTV through my HD receiver on a separate input. Is there a fix? What happend it never used to do this.

Please advise. :(

I was able to do a DCAM Convergence today... seemed simple enough. Now I want to adjust the overscan. Not sure how I go about doing it. I saw in the service menu there were HPOS and VPOS but that just adjusted the centering/position of the actual image.

Where do I find the actual resize options so I can adjust the overscan? I will then perform a DCAM Convergence again and I'll need some help here as far as geometry adjustments since I"ve never done that before. I'll be using test patterns from DVE to make the adjustments as I do not have any JIG's that would be appropriate.

Any suggestions where I can get started adjusting the overscan? Keep in mind my model TV is the Hitachi 57T500.

PJStyles

Or: When is a circle not a circle?

If this is a direct copy from the original VE, it's off, don't trust it unless you've checked it out. VE's geometry has never been right, and back then we didn't have anything to use that was accurate until AVIA came along. When the sides are set for 16x9, the circle is not a circle. When the circle IS a circle, it doesn't fit 16x9 properly.

On THX, my "circle" is 21.5 x 22.:mad: So here we go again.:eek:
Jwebb may be relieved, unless he also uses DVE.;)
BTW, THX shows me shifted to the left a little. So who do I believe?:confused:
And you're very welcome. I continue to recommend Planet Earth HD.
(insert smilie here)
Michael

I got a fun question here.. it looks like my 1 year old bashed in the lower right screen a little and it's not entirely flush anymore. I noticed it on some scrolling text like the tickers on CNN or whatever. How do I fix this? :(

Ryan

Ok, I've been a very happy owner since purchasing this tv quite a while ago because of all the wonderful comments and suggestions here.

However, I'm starting to have a problem that is seriously troubling me. Watching DVD's on my Oppo upconvert DVD player I am getting an almost faint like burn in when a scene switches or there is heavy black. Or when the DVD screensaver comes up each time it moves it leaves a impression where the previous one was. And this is for each one. Is my tv starting to go? I haven't noticed this watching any DirecTV through my HD receiver on a separate input. Is there a fix? What happend it never used to do this.

Please advise. :(

If you're not seeing this with normal viewing content, it is the Oppo. I believe this used to be a problem with them. I briefly tried out a 971 unit, and it did the same thing.

I got a fun question here.. it looks like my 1 year old bashed in the lower right screen a little and it's not entirely flush anymore. I noticed it on some scrolling text like the tickers on CNN or whatever. How do I fix this? :(

Ryan

With your 1 year old safely asleep, you'll have to remove the screen, and loosen the brackets that hold in the screen to let it seat itself back in. NOT for the timid. If you lay your screen flat down on your floor, you'll want to use a blanket thick enough to keep the screen from flexing down into the carpet, and pulling itself out of the brackets.

Chime in here anytime, Mr. Bob!:D

I got a fun question here.. it looks like my 1 year old bashed in the lower right screen a little and it's not entirely flush anymore. I noticed it on some scrolling text like the tickers on CNN or whatever. How do I fix this? :(

Ryan

Same way I fixed mine (though it took me a year to notice it, and mine came out of the box that way). Take off the screen (several million screws - okay, about two dozen) (see post #1095, above, about screen removal), unscrew (you don't need to remove) the screws holding the mount on the inside edge and, perhaps, the bottom in that area. The screen will "pop" into its normal flat orientation. Retighten the mounts and put the screen back on.
Less than half an hour with a power screwdriver. About a week, without.:)
If you're going that far, you may want to get some SprayWay (or other NON-AMMONIA cleaner) for the mirror.
Michael

Okay...been doing a lot more reading and noticed that to correct overscan on my Hitachi 57T500 I need to remove the speaker cover on the bottom of the tv to access the pots that I would turn to adjust the overscan.

Question is, how is the speaker screen removed... I do not want to damage it in any way.... Any feedback would be appreciated.

PJStyles

Question is, how is the speaker screen removed... I do not want to damage it in any way.... Any feedback would be appreciated.

PJStyles

You're already in big trouble.:(
Hitachi sells a special speaker grill removal tool for $847.59 that we had someone steal from the warehouse and we've been FedEx'ing around, but, since you haven't been here long enough, you can't have it.:p

Actually, it just pulls off. Gently, go from one side to the other, and it will come straight off.

You just need the $847.59 tool to put it back on.:)

Or: When is a circle not a circle?



On THX, my "circle" is 21.5 x 22.:mad: So here we go again.:eek:
Jwebb may be relieved, unless he also uses DVE.;)
BTW, THX shows me shifted to the left a little. So who do I believe?:confused:
And you're very welcome. I continue to recommend Planet Earth HD.
(insert smilie here)
Michael


No....used AVIA, THX Optimizer & HDNet's Test Screen Program on ther D* DVR for circles.

Have DVE, but have used it very little.

Mr. Bob i know this is probably on a different thread but did the image shift issue ever get resolved with hitachi on the f59s? I havent been on in a while.
Thanks a lot


Still no resolution.

If you have not done so, call Hitachi Customer Relations @ 1-800-654-7013. Give them your TV model # + whatever HDMI gear you are using/getting shifts from. They will also ask for an email address, which the service dept uses to keep track of you & your issue.

I sent them pics of the shift a few months ago. Best thing to do is to keep bugging them.

With your 1 year old safely asleep, you'll have to remove the screen, and loosen the brackets that hold in the screen to let it seat itself back in. NOT for the timid. If you lay your screen flat down on your floor, you'll want to use a blanket thick enough to keep the screen from flexing down into the carpet, and pulling itself out of the brackets.

Chime in here anytime, Mr. Bob!:D

Same way I fixed mine (though it took me a year to notice it, and mine came out of the box that way). Take off the screen (several million screws - okay, about two dozen) (see post #1095, above, about screen removal), unscrew (you don't need to remove) the screws holding the mount on the inside edge and, perhaps, the bottom in that area. The screen will "pop" into its normal flat orientation. Retighten the mounts and put the screen back on.
Less than half an hour with a power screwdriver. About a week, without.:)
If you're going that far, you may want to get some SprayWay (or other NON-AMMONIA cleaner) for the mirror.
Michael


Thanks for the replies guys! I have this week off on vacation so I should do it soon and while the little one is asleep. :) Since I'll have the screen off how do I do the washer mod with the lenses (and how do I make sure everything is ok with the screen off or do I have to keep putting it on checking it etc)?

Ryan

Thanks for the replies guys! I have this week off on vacation so I should do it soon and while the little one is asleep. :) Since I'll have the screen off how do I do the washer mod with the lenses (and how do I make sure everything is ok with the screen off or do I have to keep putting it on checking it etc)?

Ryan


The "scheimpfluge" mod using washers to correct focus errors on your CRT lenses can be found @ the Keohi HDTV site. Mr Bob has several bits over there under the "Expert Tips" area. Basically uses washers to alter how the lens hits the mirror - similar to the multi-adjustment points found on many CRT front PJs.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/scheimpfluge.html

Everyone's washer placement will vary a bit. Screen needs to be off to get @ the lenses. You remove the 4 black screws holding the lens on (screwed into tabs attacthed to the lens assembly - NOT the screws--"purple" looking in my 51F59A-that hold the coolant covers on the CRTs). The washers I used were left over from a piece of furniture I has assembled (odd for IKEA stuff).

Screen can be easily "snapped" back on & will stay in place w/o screws while checking adjustments--which you may be doing quite a bit! Just be sure to disconnect the Magic Focus wire harnesses located below the screen, behind spkr grill. Your F59 manual tells you how to/what to disconnect in the section covering 57/65F59A screen/base separation procedure.

Bob's description @ Keohi gives the all basics, plus I believe his "canteleiver (sp) technique" is also mentioned there. Requires fully defocusing the lens you wish to alter & using a convergence grid (either external or the Hitachi DCAM grid, if you have lowered DCAM contrast/brightness to make it usable-how to can be found on this very thread). You can cover the other 2 lenses with something to isolate the color you are working on. The service menu has settings to do this, too, but I just used small tupperware lids placed on top of the green/blue lens tops---less hassle!

The normally out of focus areas will have the "fattest" lines when grid image is fully defocused. Experiment w/ washer placement until the defocused lines appear even screen-wide. Then refocus to check. Once you have everything looking more even, tighten down those lenses, replace screen and either re-refocus and replace screen for good---or move onto the next color if needed. Will require some DCAM convergence adjustments afterward.

I performed this on my F59s red lens. Was always "out" on either the left or right side, no matter what I did, focus-wise. Ended up w/ a washer on 3 of the 4 attachment points, and red is now much more even everywhere. Didn't do green/blue, as they appear to be fine as is (although I would think blue might only improve.....hmm...;))

My 65F59A just started having issue with going green crazy over HDMI. If I turn the set off and back on it goes away. I know I've seen a thread about this but can't find it. Can someone point me in the right direction? I've got about 2 weeks left on my warranty.

My 65F59A just started having issue with going green crazy over HDMI. If I turn the set off and back on it goes away. I know I've seen a thread about this but can't find it. Can someone point me in the right direction? I've got about 2 weeks left on my warranty.

It's post #26.

No....used AVIA, THX Optimizer & HDNet's Test Screen Program on ther D* DVR for circles.

Reminds me of a Chinese proverb: He with one watch knows the time; he with two is never sure.
I'll try Avia.

Reminds me of a Chinese proverb: He with one watch knows the time; he with two is never sure.
I'll try Avia.

Is that linke the ancient Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could go to China"?

Sorry, watched a couple of STAR TREK movies this weekend--couldn't resist.;)

AVIA is preferred mainly due to it's much easier menu interface. DVE can be a PITA to navigate.

Well thanks to this forum and serious help from jwebb1970 (thanks again!), I've got my 51f59 back to good again after my service menu f-up. My color and white balance seem to be pretty decent, or I'm just getting used to it. Last time I ran Avia I had red and blue pull and green push. Since trying different wb settings it looks better, and frankly I don't want to run the Avia color checking again cause I know I'll just get depressed lol.

Whatever, HD media looks great on this set still unless I go to Best Buy and see the new digital HD sets. The blacks on those can't compete with my Hitachi, but color and sharpness is unreal on some of those. But I'll still take the lush film-like look on the Hit over the glossy digital-processed look anyday. :D I've had this set almost a year now, and I'm still in awe at times.

The only thing killing me about this set still is the freaking image shift with HDMI. It is just too much hassle using component at this point between my receiver, HD DVD, and PS3 that I switched completely to HDMI. But the image shift is so bad, sometimes 5-6 times an hour (or more!), somedays hardly ever though. It seems worse with the PS3 for some reason. I've emailed Hitachi but they never even responded to me...doesn't give me hope this problem will ever be fixed.

Still a great set for the money if you have the patience and this forum.

Is that linke the ancient Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could go to China"?

Sorry, watched a couple of STAR TREK movies this weekend--couldn't resist.;)

AVIA is preferred mainly due to it's much easier menu interface. DVE can be a PITA to navigate.

Now you need to get the entire original series, available on HD.
Why? Because they can?

THX shows me round and centered. Avia has me shifted to the right. Go figure.
Overscan looks like about 3% top and bottom and 4% sides.
Picture looks great now (is it any better? who knows!). Took everything apart again (for a change). Tightened the screen so that now it really is pretty solid [Next time, though (I should live so long), I may try leaving the bottom edge "loose" so it can hang without getting bunched up anywhere]. Removed most of the washers under the guns but still needed a couple. Took the striping off, but will need a little on the right side of the green lens (just ran out of time).
Wish I could figure out how to get decent pictures with my Panasonic FZ7. Does great, otherwise, just can't get good shots shooting into a CRT. With a dozen "scene modes," you'd think "TV" would be one of them.

Hi,
This may be a stupid question but I have my Avia disc in to adjust items & the convergence is only displaying in 4x3, I have a Hitachi 57F59A. Am I missing something, I cant find any adjustments to get the convergence grid to be in 16x9.
Thanks

Put your DVDP in 4x3 - not Letterbox - and go to the Widescreen Enhanced Circlehatch Grid on AVIA, for 16x9 grids, that will perfectly size to your screen if your DVDP is in Pan & Scan 4x3.

Be sure to set the Repeat Pattern to ON in the initial patterns menu, the third one down - of 4 choices - at the original Menu screen.


Mr Bob

Or: When is a circle not a circle?



On THX, my "circle" is 21.5 x 22.:mad: So here we go again.:eek:
Jwebb may be relieved, unless he also uses DVE.;)
BTW, THX shows me shifted to the left a little. So who do I believe?:confused:
And you're very welcome. I continue to recommend Planet Earth HD.
(insert smilie here)
Michael

DK anything about THX. Know AVIA is correct, VE is not.

For HD, the DirecTV test pattern, available only in the wee hours, is correct on its circles, but not on the overscan. I'm told you can find out when it will be on by checking their website.

If you have a component-upconverting DVDP, the circles from AVIA are correct also. Most owners will only have HDMI upconverting DVDPs, tho.



Mr Bob

Well thanks to this forum and serious help from jwebb1970 (thanks again!), I've got my 51f59 back to good again after my service menu f-up.

Whatever, HD media looks great on this set still unless I go to Best Buy and see the new digital HD sets. The blacks on those can't compete with my Hitachi, but color and sharpness is unreal on some of those. But I'll still take the lush film-like look on the Hit over the glossy digital-processed look anyday. I've had this set almost a year now, and I'm still in awe at times.

Still a great set for the money if you have the patience and this forum.

This is one of 4 MAJOR threads on Hitachi in this section.

Hitachi is one of the most well-supported brands on the net!

If you want to see what CRT is really capable of, go over to the Screenshot War!!!!!!! thread in the front pj section, and prepare to be blown away. Those systems don't stand in line behind ANYBODY, and have NO competition from the fixed pixel digital sets you're speaking of out in the marketplace.

The new stuff out there doesn't hold a candle to them.


Mr Bob

Can Mr Bob or someone else in this thread help out a fellow Hitachi owner, RandyB1986 in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=957286

his dog broke his screen, & he needs to know how to replace the screen himself, someone wants $300 for the screen+$300 for labor, on an $800 TV.

Can Mr Bob or someone else in this thread help out a fellow Hitachi owner, RandyB1986 in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=957286

his dog broke his screen, & he needs to know how to replace the screen himself, someone wants $300 for the screen+$300 for labor, on an $800 TV.

Directions for removing the screen have appeared several times recently. The parts, on the other hand, will need help from on high: email (DON'T PM) Mr. Bob.
Or just wait a few minutes and he'll probably chime in.
Guy probably used to blame his homework on his dog, too.

If you're not seeing this with normal viewing content, it is the Oppo. I believe this used to be a problem with them. I briefly tried out a 971 unit, and it did the same thing.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it very much. Have any suggestions for a different upconvert DVD player? I was looking at some upconvert DVD recorders at best buy but have no clue and don't want to make this same mistake again.

The things that irks me the most is that it worked fine for quite a while before it broke.:mad:

The things that irks me the most is that it worked fine for quite a while before it broke.:mad:

Might want to try a new HDMI cable. They are notoriously finicky, and you may have kinked or otherwise adversely affected the one you have.
A lot cheaper than a new player, too.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it very much. Have any suggestions for a different upconvert DVD player? I was looking at some upconvert DVD recorders at best buy but have no clue and don't want to make this same mistake again.

The things that irks me the most is that it worked fine for quite a while before it broke.:mad:

After owning a coupe of upconvert DVD players, I can say that the best I have had (and currently am using a lot) is the Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player. Does a wonderful job w/ HD upconversion....and oh yeah, plays actual HD movies, too.:D

Granted I got my A2 (now replaced on the market w/ the A3....but check out ebay for smokin' A2 deals) during the "blowout" sale in Nov. $99 for A2 + 7 movies. At that price, I took the HD format war plunge. IF HD DVD "loses", I still have a solid upconverter that'll still play the HD stuff I accumulated.

After owning a coupe of upconvert DVD players, I can say that the best I have had (and currently am using a lot) is the Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player. Does a wonderful job w/ HD upconversion....and oh yeah, plays actual HD movies, too.:D

Granted I got my A2 (now replaced on the market w/ the A3....but check out ebay for smokin' A2 deals) during the "blowout" sale in Nov. $99 for A2 + 7 movies. At that price, I took the HD format war plunge. IF HD DVD "loses", I still have a solid upconverter that'll still play the HD stuff I accumulated.

Simply put, with the prices of HD and BD units coming down, why not just get one of those? I know, but what if one of the formats goes away? Luckily by then, there will be more of the Dual Format Players available.

I picked up a floor model Panasonic BD10 at BB for $99($500 discount), plays great! I'll post some pics when I have time.

It should hold me over until an affordable DFP comes out.

Regarding the Avia CD... Am I missing something here? I noticed that the entire CD is in 4:3 aspect ratio. I thought there were test patterns that could be used on 16:9 but when I go to all the test patterns on the cd, my dvd player still only shows 4:3.

I tried the different aspect ratios on my TV and it won't allow me to choose 16:9 presumably because the cd is a full screen cd instead of widescreen. Given that the DVE Overscan image is not accurate, I was hoping to use the Avia one.

Any suggestions?

Simply put, with the prices of HD and BD units coming down, why not just get one of those? I know, but what if one of the formats goes away? Luckily by then, there will be more of the Dual Format Players available.

I picked up a floor model Panasonic BD10 at BB for $99($500 discount), plays great! I'll post some pics when I have time.

It should hold me over until an affordable DFP comes out.

This is where you & I scored big time, Lee!

You got the Panny BD10, I got the Tosh A2. Both of us spent around $100 (less than an Oppo upscaler). I assume you got some free discs in the deal, too? We both got solid upconverting players that also will play their respective HD media. Buy the time one side or the other prevails, if ever, those with "the loser" that was acquired cheaply are out very little.

DF players will likely get cheap & plentiful if the war gets a true winner declaed. HD DVD/BD won't just disappear immediately.

Regarding the Avia CD... Am I missing something here? I noticed that the entire CD is in 4:3 aspect ratio. I thought there were test patterns that could be used on 16:9 but when I go to all the test patterns on the cd, my dvd player still only shows 4:3.

I tried the different aspect ratios on my TV and it won't allow me to choose 16:9 presumably because the cd is a full screen cd instead of widescreen. Given that the DVE Overscan image is not accurate, I was hoping to use the Avia one.

Any suggestions?

Set you PLAYER to output "full" for 4:3 material (as in stretch it). The "widescreen enhanced" AVIA patterns (which are "squished" anamorphically) will display properly on a 16x9 screen.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it very much. Have any suggestions for a different upconvert DVD player? I was looking at some upconvert DVD recorders at best buy but have no clue and don't want to make this same mistake again.

The things that irks me the most is that it worked fine for quite a while before it broke.:mad:


I have had three Oppos and they were really great dvd players, much better than any I've had before. Right now I have the Samsung 1200 and the Toshiba A3(FORMAT NEUTRAL BABY!!!!). I got the Samsung specifically for it's noted ability to play DVDs at their best and boy was I not disappointed. It is by far the best DVD player that I've owned, I can't imagine many other standalone DVD players besting it. If you want to get the best out of your DVD collection and get a foot in the HD door, I HIGHLY recommend the Samsung 1200. Highly.

Hey guys,

I've searched and searched for two days now and i can't find these answers.

I have a Hitachi 51F510 thats a good 3 years old now. When i first got it i found a thread somewhere about recommended settings to fix the red push and some recommended video menu settings, etc. I applied them and it looked a lot better and i havent touched it since.

Now, i'm looking for this same kind of info and i can't find it anywhere. Where can i find what you guys are using for brightness,contrast, sharpness, etc? How do i access the service menu? Where is the list of recommended tweaks and settings in there? I want to check mine and tweak around a little.

Also, how do i access the mirros and lenses for cleaning? Do i go in fron the front or the back? Any tutorials or pics for my TV?

Thanks a lot

Set you PLAYER to output "full" for 4:3 material (as in stretch it). The "widescreen enhanced" AVIA patterns (which are "squished" anamorphically) will display properly on a 16x9 screen.

The only modes my dvd player has is 4:3 PanScan, LetterBox and 16:9.... I'll try the 4:3 PanScan.

PJStyles

I've searched and searched for two days now and i can't find these answers.


Can't image where you were looking for two days. Pictures of the inside of the set are two pages up. Settings are everywhere on the first few pages of this thread. Go to "search" -> "search forums" and enter hitachi tweaks to get other threads.
I did notice that the link to "Hitachi Service DIY Guilde.rtf" is broken due to lack of use, but the information that was there was just a compilation of everything else.
And don't forget to write down your original settings - they vary somewhat from set to set.
Or just email Mr. Bob and have him make the set look better than anything on the market today.

Can't image where you were looking for two days. Pictures of the inside of the set are two pages up. Settings are everywhere on the first few pages of this thread. Go to "search" -> "search forums" and enter hitachi tweaks to get other threads.
I did notice that the link to "Hitachi Service DIY Guilde.rtf" is broken due to lack of use, but the information that was there was just a compilation of everything else.
And don't forget to write down your original settings - they vary somewhat from set to set.
Or just email Mr. Bob and have him make the set look better than anything on the market today.

The Hitachi DIY Guide is alive and well! Where are you looking at?

It's in POST #3 of this thread.

PJStyles -

Those 3 modes are all virtually any DVDP has.

AVIA was designed by Guy Kuo to be used in 4x3 P&S, and its 16x9 grids in the Widescreen Enhanced area will fill your 16x9 screen properly with your set in Full, and are the best grids there are.


Mr Bob

The Hitachi DIY Guide is alive and well! Where are you looking at?

It's in POST #3 of this thread.

This link to the "mega-upload."
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=66ZVR0OR
But, as I said, the information is still available elsewhere, so it's not a total loss.

Ok, so I just looked at the overscan screen (I got to it by pressing the blue service button and "Mute" on the remote at the same time), and of course it's way off. I'm confused on how to actually adjust anything on it though. My remote didn't seem to be responding to some things (it also won't exit anything service-menu-related by the "hold TV-press 0-press 1-release TV" method... so the only way for me to get out of it is to turn off the TV with the button on front of the TVO). My remote is a CLU-4362S by the way... I know there is a post in here that explains how to use MY particular remote (and I've followed it), but my remote still doesn't seem to be responding.

So basically I'm wondering what I need to do in order to actually make any adjustments when in the "overscan viewing screen", for lack of a better term. And then also how to exit.

Also, will I be able to fix the "down-shifted" screen via overscan reduction? Like, as I have mentioned earlier, my screen is noticeably lower than it should be (with about an 1/8" to a 1/4" of "black" showing at the top of the screen when viewing anything via the HDMI cable... this small "black space" doesn't occur when viewing any other imput though, so that kinda makes me think that reducing the overscan will not fix it).

This is explained a little better in my post (#778) and visually seen in my other post (#1064)... just look at the top right corner to see what I mean.

So basically I'm wondering what I need to do in order to actually make any adjustments when in the "overscan viewing screen", for lack of a better term. And then also how to exit.

Frankly, it sounds like you have no idea what you're doing. Fortunately, you're in the right place, but it will take time and patience. At the very beginning of this thread are links to several "guides" that have been put together by others. There is also a link to the service manual, which you really should have if you start doing stuff like this. If you keep just pushing buttons, you will, at best, need to call someone in for service. At worst, you will end up with an expensive (but very effective) doorstop.

At worst, you will end up with an expensive (but very effective) doorstop.
LOL :D

... it works after you take off the wheels :)

You may not be able to make any shifting adj's while in the overscan check mode. You may have to shift your pic in the proper shifting mode, then come back and check it via the overscan check mode.

I have never heard of this overscan check mode. Was it refered somewhere, or did you come up with it on your own?

To really know whether you are centered vertically or not, you need to be able to see both top and bottom, which requires reducing the vertical size of your pic. That will reveal whether reducing your overscan will do it or not, or whether you just have to shift your picture down - or up - a bit. Then restoring your pic to its former size.

If you do this via the h and v trimpots, be sure and mark them carefully before turning either of them. Mark them with a very THIN Sharpie marking pen, or whatever, just make it a thin line.

To not get things back EXACTLY where they were, will alter and mess with your possibly otherwise perfect convergence.


Mr Bob

Ok, so I just looked at the overscan screen (I got to it by pressing the blue service button and "Mute" on the remote at the same time), and of course it's way off. I'm confused on how to actually adjust anything on it though. My remote didn't seem to be responding to some things (it also won't exit anything service-menu-related by the "hold TV-press 0-press 1-release TV" method... so the only way for me to get out of it is to turn off the TV with the button on front of the TVO). My remote is a CLU-4362S by the way... I know there is a post in here that explains how to use MY particular remote (and I've followed it), but my remote still doesn't seem to be responding.

So basically I'm wondering what I need to do in order to actually make any adjustments when in the "overscan viewing screen", for lack of a better term. And then also how to exit.

There is no Overscan Screen function in the TV. You have to have a signal source with that particular pattern. Such as Avia, DVE, etc. What you have brought up is the uncorrected DCAM screen. Using this screen to adjust overscan just puts you back to the factory specs.

To really adjust overscan, you have to adjust the horizontal and vertical size pots inside the TV, while displaying your overscan picture.

Hey all, sorry to just pop in here after a long absence and start crying about a problem, but... well, damn.

With Christmas and all, I shot the lock off my wallet and signed us up for Digital cable with DVR, HD channels, on demand, etc. Actually, we needed to switch from Wide Open West because their broadband was getting dog-slow at least in our neighborhood. Signed up with Insight (soon to be bought by Comcast).

Install was today. It's Insight's Digital 3.0 w/ DVR and HDPak, etc.

The HD channels look AWESOME, truly jaw dropping. NO complaints there whatsoever.

But here's the rub: The basic channels, the non-HD channels, look worse now than they did when the coax cable was going directly into the 51F59, i.e. when it was plain old analog CATV coax input. Its not Insight's signal, because the upstairs TV (20" Panasonic Tau Flat Tube) is on an analog coax CATV feed and it actually looks sharper and better than it did with Wide Open West's signal.

But downstairs on the 51F59 its a different story... like the DVR is doing something to it and making it a little fuzzy or blurry. Or maybe could it be the Virtual HD over compensating on the digital signal and somehow makign it look worse?

I am using component cables from the DVR to the 51F59 for now, until I get an HDMI cable ordered off Monoprice.com.

I checked and the 51F59 is still applying Virtual HD to it, unchanged from the 1080i Virtual HD setting it has been using since we've had it.

Again, the HD channels are PERFECT. Stunning. But the non-HD channels don't look as good as they did before as analog CATV input to the coax jack.

I even double checked the user video settings menu to make sure Noise Reduction wasn't set, because that's what it looks like-- the slight blurring that the Noise Reduction setting can do to an otherwise clear picture.

Guess I'm just bumming because while the HD content is excellent, I was hoping the basic non-HD channels would look even better as Digital than they did as analog, but it seems to be the other way around.

P.S. Its not a case of looking at the HD and then watching some non-HD and just over noticing the non-HDness of the basic channels, because during install when he fired it up it was on the basic channels first and I immediately noticed they looked worse than before.

There is no Overscan Screen function in the TV. You have to have a signal source with that particular pattern. Such as Avia, DVE, etc. What you have brought up is the uncorrected DCAM screen. Using this screen to adjust overscan just puts you back to the factory specs.

To really adjust overscan, you have to adjust the horizontal and vertical size pots inside the TV, while displaying your overscan picture.

And make sure that you don't take too much in, or you'll disable the MF, when the sensors are not properly bombarded with their MF patterns.


Mr Bob

Quick add-on to my last, the non-HD channels are also dimmer/darker than before and darker than the HD channels.

I read in another forum that splitting the cable and running a line directly into the TV's coax input may help, but this will also reduce the signal strength to the DVR

Quick add-on to my last, the non-HD channels are also dimmer/darker than before and darker than the HD channels.

I read in another forum that splitting the cable and running a line directly into the TV's coax input may help, but this will also reduce the signal strength to the DVR

You may want to try running a Composite Cable connection to another TV input for when you are watching Standard Def Channels.

What model is your DVR?

Hi Lee, thanks. The DVR is a Motorola DCT6412 III. Do you mean splitting the cable and running one cable to the DVR and the other into the TV's analog catv coax jack? And do you think an HDMI cable would solve this issue?

Hi Lee, thanks. The DVR is a Motorola DCT6412 III. Do you mean splitting the cable and running one cable to the DVR and the other into the TV's analog catv coax jack? And do you think an HDMI cable would solve this issue?

No, I mean connecting a cable from the DVR composite out jack to one of the composite video in jacks on your TV that you are not currently using. Now, I do need to know if you have some sort of A/V receiver that is handling your sound. If you are using the TV speakers for all your sound, this will not work, without splitting the audio cables between the two inputs.

Yeah, I'm just using the TV audio speakers right now. I was going to get a 5.1 system this year but a medical situation created some bills so the 5.1 purchase is tabled until spring or summer.

UPDATE: I went into service menu TA1360 and was able to clean up the SDTV picture some. I did the APRTR tweak and set APRTR-SDTV to 00, which toned down some of the halo banding around text and images. Then I had pretty good luck with increasing the value of YDTL. Default was 07, experimented and arrived at a value of 0A which cleared up SDTV a little without over sharpening HDTV. I have the DVR on INPUT 4 (component cables) and set as STB is the SETUP THE INPUTS user menu. I topped it off by bringing black level up several clicks from 50 to 56 without over brightening HDTV scenes. Contrast remains set at or below 35 on all inputs.

Yeah, I'm just using the TV audio speakers right now. I was going to get a 5.1 system this year but a medical situation created some bills so the 5.1 purchase is tabled until spring or summer.

UPDATE: I went into service menu TA1360 and was able to clean up the SDTV picture some. I did the APRTR tweak and set APRTR-SDTV to 00, which toned down some of the halo banding around text and images. Then I had pretty good luck with increasing the value of YDTL. Default was 07, experimented and arrived at a value of 0A which cleared up SDTV a little without over sharpening HDTV. I have the DVR on INPUT 4 (component cables) and set as STB is the SETUP THE INPUTS user menu. I topped it off by bringing black level up several clicks from 50 to 56 without over brightening HDTV scenes. Contrast remains set at or below 35 on all inputs.


One other thing you change try is to change how the DVR sends 480i material to you. With your TV and cable box on, power off the cable box, then press menu. You should have a settings menu appear. Scroll down to the 4:3 Override, and scroll right or left to change it to 480i. Hit the menu button to exit, then power up the cable box

I know this is old hat but I experienced HDMI problems recently when I switched from component to HDMI. I called Hitachi. Its a problem with the TV's HDMI Interface. They have no way to resolve it for now. They are going to call me in a week to update me. I'm not holding my breath. This really stings becuase I love the TV and like the pic/sound quality using HDMI from my Sat Dish. My upconvert LG recently crashed but I did not have the HDMI problems with it. It upscaled fine.

I just ordered a Toshiba HD DVD player and am nervous about the HDMI issue. The TV shuts itself off/shift ect..with HDMI. Can someone direct me to theright post to resolve this if it can be resolved. You guys seem to be the Go TO ones on this HDTV CRT.

never mind. Just found jwebb's fix. Never done anything on the service menu but it looks easy enough. My TV looks great except for SD off the SAT being a little fuzzy. I may (shaking in my boots ) try that fix one day as well.

Lee, Okay I went and got an HDMI cable today. Hooked it up. Checked out SDTV picture, didn't look much different than with component cables, so next I tried the menu 480i/480p procedure on the DVR that you suggested above BUT, and this may be a big but: the first time I hit the menu button on the DVR with the TV on and the DVR off, the TV put a warning on-screen white letters on blue background: "WARNING THE HD CONTENT PROTECTION ON YOUR TV HAS BEEN COMPROMISED YOU SHOULD VIEW HD CONTENT USING THE YPBPR INPUT". I hit menu again and got to the user setup for the DVR and changed it to 480p for 4:3 output (it was at 480i by default).

I basically ignored it and am stil using the HDMI, but the warning freaked me out.

Please tell me that my TV's HDMI is not borked somehow after that warning.

I checked and the HD channels seem to work fine, now when changing channels on the HD end it puts an info box blk background w/ white text telling what format the content is in, that it is digital on input #1-- didn't do that when using the component cables.

P.S. Right out of the box, my 51F59 has always displayed the "V195" in Magenta on upper righthand area of screen on the main page of the Service Menu, as described in Jwebb's HDMI Fix post #26 in this thread so I'm hoping the HDMi fix is in firmware on my set.

Thanks for this thread. I was able to cure the HDMI freak outs by doing the software fix. Thanks ( jweb ) and everyone else.

Still cruising the thread to find a fix for the SD channels looking soft. I have a Dish Sat and tried Bailey's quick fix mentioned above but nothing happened.

Lee, Okay I went and got an HDMI cable today. Hooked it up. Checked out SDTV picture, didn't look much different than with component cables, so next I tried the menu 480i/480p procedure on the DVR that you suggested above BUT, and this may be a big but: the first time I hit the menu button on the DVR with the TV on and the DVR off, the TV put a warning on-screen white letters on blue background: "WARNING THE HD CONTENT PROTECTION ON YOUR TV HAS BEEN COMPROMISED YOU SHOULD VIEW HD CONTENT USING THE YPBPR INPUT". I hit menu again and got to the user setup for the DVR and changed it to 480p for 4:3 output (it was at 480i by default).

I basically ignored it and am stil using the HDMI, but the warning freaked me out.

Please tell me that my TV's HDMI is not borked somehow after that warning.

I checked and the HD channels seem to work fine, now when changing channels on the HD end it puts an info box blk background w/ white text telling what format the content is in, that it is digital on input #1-- didn't do that when using the component cables.

P.S. Right out of the box, my 51F59 has always displayed the "V195" in Magenta on upper righthand area of screen on the main page of the Service Menu, as described in Jwebb's HDMI Fix post #26 in this thread so I'm hoping the HDMi fix is in firmware on my set.

Seems when you turn off a device that has hooked up successfully via the HDCP handshake over HDMI, it does not like the connection being severed. Once everything is turned back on, it corrects itself.

Can anyone tell me what the setting should be for Hit 51f59 for my H position and V position in the service menu. Like an idiot I was messing around past my abilities and moved the setting without writing it down.

Can anyone tell me what the setting should be for Mit 51f59 for my H position and V position in the service menu. Like an idiot I was messing around past my abilities and moved the setting without writing it down.

Just put up the THX video test pattern (circle/rectangle) from any one of a million discs and center it. Settings differ by set, and it's not earth-shattering, so close is okay.

Just put up the THX video test pattern (circle/rectangle) from any one of a million discs and center it. Settings differ by set, and it's not earth-shattering, so close is okay.
thanks, will do.

OK guys. My TV looks great almost OOB. Thats from a year ago. I've done some fixes but am trying to figure out if I should go and do more. My colors look good to me. Sometimes I get green highlights in some spots. Usually HD TV programming in peoples hair or animal furs, creases...things like that. My color tint is set 1 tick to the yellow/green. My color is 48. My sharpness is 20 with Edge Enhancement on MED. (I like it that way)Moving that around doesnt seem to change it. When I put it on 117 convergence I see magenta/purple on the very bottom line. I put the crosshairs on it and it says its fine. Is there a post I need to look at or is all this normal. Let me know.
I'm just now getting into how to work in the service mode.

Hi Lee, thanks. The DVR is a Motorola DCT6412 III. Do you mean splitting the cable and running one cable to the DVR and the other into the TV's analog catv coax jack? And do you think an HDMI cable would solve this issue?

From what I've read that particular DVR is notorious for making SDTV signals look bad on HDTV sets. I have that model of DVR as well and SD channels don't look that good IMO but it depends on the channel.

Ryan

When I put it on 117 convergence I see magenta/purple on the very bottom line. I put the crosshairs on it and it says its fine.

Huh? WHAT says it's fine?!
However, if you are really happy with what you have, don't bother making changes. I play with mine because I enjoy playing with mine (and don't anyone dare quote me out of context), sort of like tuning up my car when I was a kid. If you want to get started with this stuff, there's more than enough info throughout this thread. However, keep in mind that you can also really screw things up. Really.

Huh? WHAT says it's fine?!
However, if you are really happy with what you have, don't bother making changes. I play with mine because I enjoy playing with mine (and don't anyone dare quote me out of context), sort of like tuning up my car when I was a kid. If you want to get started with this stuff, there's more than enough info throughout this thread. However, keep in mind that you can also really screw things up. Really.
Pic looks good. Real good detail and colors. I'm just thinking that I'm missing out on it being even better. Thanks for the reply.

i have the 65" model and right now have a Magnavox progressive scan DVD-Recorder/player hooked with component cables. A friend of mine has a samsung upscaling dvd-recorder for sale.

3 questions:

1. is upscaling that big a difference from the 480p prog scan?

2. you can only upconvert via HDMI correct?

3. this is an unrelated question but, I have my Directv DVR run through the HDMI and it does the usual things everyone talks about. (I haven't done the update yet), but i was wondering if anyone has every had it where there is a large black square dead center of the screen over the TV picture? If I turn off /on the TV, it goes away and it only happens say once every 2 weeks or so but I haven't heard anyone else mention it on here.

I am very happy with my prog scan DVD player but sometimes it does this weird thing where it almost looks like its horizontally refreshing the picture very quickly. It doesn't do it real often, say 8 times during a movie. Is that a cable issue or would the upconvert DVD player look better and maybe solve this small issue?

Any help appreciated. Thanks!

Is it possible to disable the Virtual HD feature that is applied to SD content by the 51F59?

Is it possible to disable the Virtual HD feature that is applied to SD content by the 51F59?

Not that anyone knows of.

hi all I just got this set today for an amazing low price that i couldn't pass up. I was not initially looking for a crt rptv but when I got this brand new 57f59a from cc for 500 dolars out the door, I just couldn't pass up the offer. 57inches and 1080i for that price was very reasonable. Lol i will just have to wait on buying a panny kuro elite while I have this tv, and mb even the price will come down on the panny while I own this tv!

Seeing how I am a newbie to this model tv, I have a few questions.

1) Where is the tweak download? I have been reading for hours..but just cant find a link that works. The link at the beginning of this thread is inactive. Can someone get it to me, or point me in the right direction.
2) What tweaks should I be interested in doing? HDMI seems to work fine, I notice no color changes when hooking this up via hdmi monoprice cables to my comcast box and ps3. Has my tv been fixed? or received a firmware upgrade?, seeing how I bought it in Dec 07 . How would I check the version that I have to see if it has been fixed or needs fixed?
3) I don't currently have a avia dvd, so in the meantime can anyone recommend suggested color settings etc..?
4) Will i recieve a better picture if I set my ps3 and comcast box to always output 1080i or should I set to 720p and let the tv upscale to 1080i?
5)What exactly am I losing by setting my ps3 and comcast box to 720p and allowing the tv to upscale to 1080i? Can you clarify the difference of how a crt rptv can display a 1080i signal yet still display 60 fps? Doesnt something have to give?
6) What is the best way to break this tv in? Should I download the break in disc which was created over in the plasma flat panel forum, which has a repetitive screens of solids colors which constantly change over and over to evenly age all the phosphors, and let it play for 100 hours? Or this is not as necessary with this type of display versus a plasma? Or will just normal tv viewing with no fixed logos suffice for a crt rptv?
7) The tv is brand new and the magic focus seems to have worked very nicely. What convergence mods or tweaks should i be interested in at this early stage?

I thank you all for your patience with me as I am new to crt rptv but just couldn't pass up the great deal i got.

I'll take a crack at this, but I'm not one of the resident experts here.

hi all I just got this set today for an amazing low price that i couldn't pass up. I was not initially looking for a crt rptv but when I got this brand new 57f59a from cc for 500 dolars out the door, I just couldn't pass up the offer. 57inches and 1080i for that price was very reasonable. Lol i will just have to wait on buying a panny kuro elite while I have this tv, and mb even the price will come down on the panny while I own this tv!

Great deal!


Seeing how I am a newbie to this model tv, I have a few questions.

1) Where is the tweak download? I have been reading for hours..but just cant find a link that works. The link at the beginning of this thread is inactive. Can someone get it to me, or point me in the right direction.

Not sure what you're referring to here. Maybe a list of service menu tweaks? The only "must-have" one is setting COLORG to 01 to tame the red push. Although I increased fine detail very slightly by setting YDTL to 08 (default was 07). Anything higher than 08 or 09 on YDTL just seems to create or accentuate noise in the picture.



2) What tweaks should I be interested in doing? HDMI seems to work fine, I notice no color changes when hooking this up via hdmi monoprice cables to my comcast box and ps3. Has my tv been fixed? or received a firmware upgrade?, seeing how I bought it in Dec 07 . How would I check the version that I have to see if it has been fixed or needs fixed?

Take it easy at first and just let it break in... figure 100 hours use for break-in of the CRT's. TURN CONTRAST (white level) DOWN! Factory has it set to 100%, you don't want that, it will drastically shorten lifespan of the CRT's. Recommend 35 % or less for Contrast, but anything below 40 is acceptable. Brightness (black level) you can run higher, mine is @ 56 currently. Keep in mind that each set is tuned at the factory for base level sub-bright and sub-contrast so there will be minor variation beetween sets, i.e. my brightness @ 56 might be a click or two brighter than yours @ 56. If your set displays "V195" in magenta text when Service Menu is up, it likely has the HDMI fix applied. Mine was that way out of the box (magenta "V195"). To get in the Service Menu: Press and release "Menu" on the tv set front panel, then press "menu" on the remote and release, then press and release "8" on the remote, and finally press and release "select" on the remote. To exit service menu, press "exit" on remot. DISCLAIMER: You can totally nuke your TV's picture by poking around in the service menu, I know from experience. I did it. Took weeks and posts for help here to get the white balance and colors back to spec. There is an option in Service Menu called "MEMORY INIT" do not execute it under any circumstances. There is another one called "FACTORY RESET", do not execute it either. Ever, ever, ever.

The COLORG switch is under TA1360 in the Service Menu. After changing the value press "select" on the remote to save it and the cursor will move to next value.


3) I don't currently have a avia dvd, so in the meantime can anyone recommend suggested color settings etc..?

Mine: Day Night


Contrast 33 31
Brtness 58 56
Color 40 40
Tint centered centered
Sharp 50 50
Color temp Med Std
Blk Enh Off Off
Edge Enh Off Off
-- page 2 video items all set to off also --


4) Will i recieve a better picture if I set my ps3 and comcast box to always output 1080i or should I set to 720p and let the tv upscale to 1080i?

No. 1080i is the xxF59 series' native mode. Set it to output 1080i to your 57F59.


5)What exactly am I losing by setting my ps3 and comcast box to 720p and allowing the tv to upscale to 1080i? Can you clarify the difference of how a crt rptv can display a 1080i signal yet still display 60 fps? Doesnt something have to give?

When in doubt, don't upscale.



6) What is the best way to break this tv in? Should I download the break in disc which was created over in the plasma flat panel forum, which has a repetitive screens of solids colors which constantly change over and over to evenly age all the phosphors, and let it play for 100 hours? Or this is not as necessary with this type of display versus a plasma? Or will just normal tv viewing with no fixed logos suffice for a crt rptv?

Turn contrast to 35 or below and just watch tv normally.



7) The tv is brand new and the magic focus seems to have worked very nicely. What convergence mods or tweaks should i be interested in at this early stage?

None. Many do a convergnece in DCAM mode (Digital Convergence Adjustment Mode) which can only be gotten to via a special procedure which involves taking the tv apart in front and pressing a special service button, OR by a complex key sequence on the remote. DCAM may be linked to convergence drift on the XXF59 series tv's, I know I did DCAM on my first set and its conv drifted like a big dog from then on. I would not recommend DCAM, nothing to be gained, potentially much to be lost. For the first 100 hours the convergence is going to drift a little bit though, that is normal for break-in. All I ever do is the user 117 point accessible under Magic Focus Tuneup submenu under the user setup menu.


I thank you all for your patience with me as I am new to crt rptv but just couldn't pass up the great deal i got.

Hey I did that "Factory Reset" scew up once. All I could tell it did was turn all my menu settings back to the rediculous factory settings. I redid them all and it was fine. Did it do something else I am unaware of???

My HDMI fix was fine..I rechecked it. I couldn't tell anything else was mixed up.

PS....I took VivatHD's COLORG and YDTL advice and changed those values. I like the look and the red push is less. Is that the values most use or should I try others??

Just to update. That factory reset mess up of mine is getting into my head. I wasn't worried until I read a couple of horror story postings. If everything looks like it did before should I not sweat it. Or is there a sm setting that this reset did that i really need to look at. I didn't do any sm changes before I made that mistake. Just got distracted and hit the button as it was on that setting. Does that mean that it basically did nothing? I hope the answer is yes as this is really bothering me now.

Is that the values most use or should I try others??

Does that mean that it basically did nothing? I hope the answer is yes as this is really bothering me now.

Sure, try others. Nothing to lose, just remember your ORIGINAL settings.

You worry too much. Enjoy your great picture and have a Happy New Year.:D

Thanks!!! I had a lot of pressure to buy the new technologies and really felt this Hit was the way to go. Happy I did. Thanks and have a happy new year too.

Just to update. That factory reset mess up of mine is getting into my head. I wasn't worried until I read a couple of horror story postings. If everything looks like it did before should I not sweat it. Or is there a sm setting that this reset did that i really need to look at. I didn't do any sm changes before I made that mistake. Just got distracted and hit the button as it was on that setting. Does that mean that it basically did nothing? I hope the answer is yes as this is really bothering me now.

I warned him off of FACT RESET just to be on the safe side. As you mentioned, all FACT RESET does is take the user menu options (contrast, brightness, sharp, etc) back to the factory presets ("torch" mode). BUT, MEMORY INITIALIZE is the Atom Bomb. Trust me, I know. I intentionally did MEMORY INITIALIZE once thinking it would help an issue I was having with the convergence grid distorting. WRONG. It resets ALL Service Menu values in every submenu to pre-tuned state, i.e. before the color balances were tuned in at the factory. Results in your picture looking taking on a heavy red wash. Getting color fidelity back is nearly impossible afterwards without having a complete listing of someone else's tuned-in color drive values in the service menu, and even then it won't be the same because of variances between tv's.

Rest easy Mustang68, FACT RESET didn't reset any Service Menu values other than those that would control the settings in the user menus and you can easily change thos back as you observed.

Mustang68, You could try changing the value of CDE in TA1360 to 1 or 2. CDE = Color Detail Enhancer, supposed to enhance fine detail in color saturated scenes but it doesn't really seem to do a whole lot. Default is 00. I tried 01 and 02 and didn't notice a perceptible difference.

YOUTG = 01 (00 by default) is a gamma increase, works similar to increasing gamma on your PC monitor, basically ups the drive on contrast and brightness together. Might be useful in overly bright room lighting, but may have long term ill effects on the CRT's (or not, I don't know).

Thanks!!! I had a lot of pressure to buy the new technologies and really felt this Mit was the way to go. Happy I did. Thanks and have a happy new year too.


Mit? I think you meant Hit!

[QUOTE=VivatHD;12631608]I'll take a crack at this, but I'm not one of the resident experts here.



Great deal!



Not sure what you're referring to here. Maybe a list of service menu tweaks? The only "must-have" one is setting COLORG to 01 to tame the red push. Although I increased fine detail very slightly by setting YDTL to 08 (default was 07). Anything higher than 08 or 09 on YDTL just seems to create or accentuate noise in the picture.



Take it easy at first and just let it break in... figure 100 hours use for break-in of the CRT's. TURN CONTRAST (white level) DOWN! Factory has it set to 100%, you don't want that, it will drastically shorten lifespan of the CRT's. Recommend 35 % or less for Contrast, but anything below 40 is acceptable. Brightness (black level) you can run higher, mine is @ 56 currently. Keep in mind that each set is tuned at the factory for base level sub-bright and sub-contrast so there will be minor variation beetween sets, i.e. my brightness @ 56 might be a click or two brighter than yours @ 56. If your set displays "V195" in magenta text when Service Menu is up, it likely has the HDMI fix applied. Mine was that way out of the box (magenta "V195"). To get in the Service Menu: Press and release "Menu" on the tv set front panel, then press "menu" on the remote and release, then press and release "8" on the remote, and finally press and release "select" on the remote. To exit service menu, press "exit" on remot. DISCLAIMER: You can totally nuke your TV's picture by poking around in the service menu, I know from experience. I did it. Took weeks and posts for help here to get the white balance and colors back to spec. There is an option in Service Menu called "MEMORY INIT" do not execute it under any circumstances. There is another one called "FACTORY RESET", do not execute it either. Ever, ever, ever.

The COLORG switch is under TA1360 in the Service Menu. After changing the value press "select" on the remote to save it and the cursor will move to next value.



Mine: Day Night


Contrast 33 31
Brtness 58 56
Color 40 40
Tint centered centered
Sharp 50 50
Color temp Med Std
Blk Enh Off Off
Edge Enh Off Off
-- page 2 video items all set to off also --



Thanks for your thorough answers. I have also noticed talk of the color temp settings. And adjusting the color temp to 6500k. What factors in the menu does this change entail? And how does someone make this change?

Mit? I think you meant Hit!
Yea..one of my many mistakes.

I know everyone on this thread knows this and has experienced it but here it goes anyway. My buddy bought a 40 inch LCD Samsung 1080P. I finally went and looked at it. My 51F59 looks better. The LCD can make the edges sharper but not by much. THe color can't touch the CRT. Theres basically nothing he can do with it past the remote settings. I'm waiting for my Toshiba a20 HD DVD player to come in and see how close it matches his LCD performance in that arena. I'm betting on a close comparison. Thanks everyone!!

Ok I have the tweak bug. Most know I have the Hit 51f59 and have been messing it up lately. Still there seems so much to do with it.

What can I do to improve SDTV. Its ok but kinda fuzzy. My TV was set on APRTR-SDTV-00.

I made the YTDL value change from 07 to 08.

I made the COLORG change from 00 to 01 for red push fix

CDE from 00 to 01

My goal is to clear up the SDTV, get more detail in the SD and HD without going to far. Can someone recommend actual value settings to try. I'm to scared to experiment to much at this stage of my development.

If your SD picture is fuzzy try setting APRTR-SDTV back to default value of 01. Although setting it to 00 removes banding around text and edges it also softens the detail in the picture very slightly. So try 01. You could try upping YDTL further another click or two, but it tends to add over-sharpening of the picture at higher values, plus it is global and as such will effect HDTV also.

There is a Sharpness Center Adjustment setting for SDTV sharpeness center value independently (independently of NTSC and HDTV) in TA1360, it is "SHARP-SDTV" in the service menu TA1360. You could try increasing it a click or few and see if that helps increase SD sharpness without having to globally increase sharpness via the front end user menu. I believe the three values SHARP-NTSC, SHARP-SDTV, and SHARP-HDTV set the baseline for sharpness for each format.

Just be SURE to WRITE DOWN the factory default settings of a value before you change it.

Let me conclude by saying I am also grappeling with the HDTV-looks-stunning-but SDTV-not-so-much issue, trying to clean up my SDTV picture. I've tried having the Motorola DCT6412-III upconvert the SD to 480p and I've tried having it leave it alone and pass it through as untouched 480i, but it still looks sub-par compared to how it (480i) looked when piped into the TV's CATV coax jack before they installed us last week with DVR and HD pkg. I've got it looking pretty decent finally, not where it was as coax analog before... but acceptable. It's a part of digital cable, as it seems. Everyone has to tolerate it. Even Motorola acknowledges that the cable industry is "working on a solution", read this: http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/analogFAQ.asp


Ok I have the tweak bug. Most know I have the Hit 51f59 and have been messing it up lately. Still there seems so much to do with it.

What can I do to improve SDTV. Its ok but kinda fuzzy. My TV was set on APRTR-SDTV-00.

I made the YTDL value change from 07 to 08.

I made the COLORG change from 00 to 01 for red push fix

CDE from 00 to 01

My goal is to clear up the SDTV, get more detail in the SD and HD without going to far. Can someone recommend actual value settings to try. I'm to scared to experiment to much at this stage of my development.

If your SD picture is fuzzy try setting APRTR-SDTV back to default value of 01. Although setting it to 00 removes banding around text and edges it also softens the detail in the picture very slightly. So try 01. You could try upping YDTL further another click or two, but it tends to add over-sharpening of the picture at higher values, plus it is global and as such will effect HDTV also.

There is a Sharpness Center Adjustment setting for SDTV sharpeness center value independently (independently of NTSC and HDTV) in TA1360, it is "SHARP-SDTV" in the service menu TA1360. You could try increasing it a click or few and see if that helps increase SD sharpness without having to globally increase sharpness via the front end user menu. I believe the three values SHARP-NTSC, SHARP-SDTV, and SHARP-HDTV set the baseline for sharpness for each format.

Just be SURE to WRITE DOWN the factory default settings of a value before you change it.

Let me conclude by saying I am also grappeling with the HDTV-looks-stunning-but SDTV-not-so-much issue, trying to clean up my SDTV picture. I've tried having the Motorola DCT6412-III upconvert the SD to 480p and I've tried having it leave it alone and pass it through as untouched 480I, but it still looks sub-par compared to how it (480I) looked when piped into the TV's CATV coax jack before they installed us last week with DVR and HD pkg. I've got it looking pretty decent finally, not where it was as coax analog before but acceptable. It's a part of digital cable, as it seems. everyone has to tolerate it. Even Motorola acknowledges that the cable industry is "working on a solution", read this: http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/analogFAQ.asp
Thanks..I changed CDE from 00 to 01 and that helped. I changed Sharp SDTV from 1c to 1e and that made a lot of difference. While I was at it I changed Sharp HDTV from 1c to 1d. A little sharper image. I had to then dial back the sharpness on the remote settings a click or two.

even my skeptical wife can see the differences. Still your right about the SD TV. I just dont think it will get much better.

Mustang,

The 51F59 has a Digital 3D Y/C Comb Filter, which is the best comb filter available today. I do not know if the 3D comb filter is applied to HD and SD content coming in over HDMI or over YPBPR component on inputs #3 and #4, but I believe the Service Menu value associated with the F59's Digital 3D Y/C Comb Filter to be YCGA in the TA1360 menu, since the 51/57/65F59 Service Manual describes YCGA as "Component Dynamic Y/C Correction Select" and it has three assignable values: 00: Off (Default), 01: min, 02: Med, 03: max. It might be that the comb filter is only applied to NTSC content so any changes to the YCGA value may have no effect on HDMI (digital) or YPBPR component inputs. I'm not sure. I tried the different values with an HD broadcast in progress and didn't notice much if any perceptible differences. I haven't tried it with an SD broadcast yet. For what its worth, Y=black&white and C=color in the Y/C comb filter designation. Actually YCGA is likely only a modifier for the filter otherwise I wouldn't think it would be off by default.

On my setup I have the DVR connected to the 51F59 via YPBPR component cables. Actually looks better (sharper/clearer) that way than when I tried a Belkin 6' HDMI cable few days ago. Go figure. When I was Googling about HDMI vs. Component YPBPR cables I found a couple posts here and there where guys reported better results with component cables than HDMI. Anywho, mine looks best w/ component cables, so that's how I'm leaving it.

When you are viewing a standard DVD, how do they look? Mine look great, and they are standard definition. You need a good SD signal to make it look good on this set. Try some OTA stuff and see how it looks. I get the same non-stellar results with SD broadcasts over my Comcast Motorola, DCT6412 as well. The digital channels look better than the analog ones, as usual.

On my set using the Motorola cable box-my SD looked bad-I don't watch that much SD so I changed the settings in the Motorola to 1080i ---480i side bar(use 1080i wide screen but do not set to preserve 480i signal-it streches the image to fit the screen-if you have your contrast turned down,use 480i with side bar---much better picture.

Mustang,

The 51F59 has a Digital 3D Y/C Comb Filter, which is the best comb filter available today. I do not know if the 3D comb filter is applied to HD and SD content coming in over HDMI or over YPBPR component on inputs #3 and #4, but I believe the Service Menu value associated with the F59's Digital 3D Y/C Comb Filter to be YCGA in the TA1360 menu, since the 51/57/65F59 Service Manual describes YCGA as "Component Dynamic Y/C Correction Select" and it has three assignable values: 00: Off (Default), 01: min, 02: Med, 03: max. It might be that the comb filter is only applied to NTSC content so any changes to the YCGA value may have no effect on HDMI (digital) or YPBPR component inputs. I'm not sure. I tried the different values with an HD broadcast in progress and didn't notice much if any perceptible differences. I haven't tried it with an SD broadcast yet. For what its worth, Y=black&white and C=color in the Y/C comb filter designation. Actually YCGA is likely only a modifier for the filter otherwise I wouldn't think it would be off by default.

On my setup I have the DVR connected to the 51F59 via YPBPR component cables. Actually looks better (sharper/clearer) that way than when I tried a Belkin 6' HDMI cable few days ago. Go figure. When I was Googling about HDMI vs. Component YPBPR cables I found a couple posts here and there where guys reported better results with component cables than HDMI. Anywho, mine looks best w/ component cables, so that's how I'm leaving it.
My OTA stuff looks real good. So I'm giving up on trying to get the SAT SD stuff to look better. I'm happy with the tweaks VivatHD clued me to. I'm starting to figure out that even on HD...it really matters what feed/channel your watching. One can be stellar while the other not. Kinda frustrating.

I posted a question in the "Dont dump your Crt" thread but dont know if that was the right spot. Here it is below. Can someone direct me to the right thread? Or does anyone have an answer?

OK..I have a HIt 51F59. I'm usually in the tweaks thread but I think this may fit here. Let me know. My LG DVD upscale player went out. I bought a Toshiba HD DVD A20. Figured what the heck. It upscales as well. GOt it for a good price. When I play standard DVD's, like MI 3, it looks great. If I play a HD DVD not as good. A lot of noise in it. If I try to elimate noise it looks soft.

I set the DVD player to upscale to 1080p and upscale to 1080i. Both look similiar and have to much noise. The TV is set shows it is being displayed in 1080i. Can someone tell me if this TV just doesnt do this format? Or is there another thread that can help. I am not double posting. JUst try to figure out where to go. [/I]

1080i is native mode for the 51F59 but it won't do 1080p. Try using YBPBR Component (RGB) cables to connect the DVD to the F59. If its a true HD DVD player I think it should output true 1080i and not have to upscale anything to 1080i.

Mustang,

As VivatHD said, set your HD DVD player to output 1080i for everything.

I have an HD-A2. Was running it via HDMI until said cable died on me (tried a shorter HDMI, it worked....it was the cable). Went to Target to find no HDMI cables longer than 6ft in stock. Figured I'll get one via Monoprice for far less anyway. To hold me over, I'm running it via component for now.

May just leave it this way. HD DVDs look EXACTLY THE SAME (ie...frickin' awesome) via component @ 1080i and std DVDs are sent 480p (the compoent SD DVD default--won't upscale over component). Set the F59's VirtualHD to 540p (no effect on real HD signals of course) and have to say....DVDs @ 480p over component don't look any better/worse than they did via HDMI w/ the A2 upconversion.

I'm running everything thru an HDMI switcher. The Toshiba A20 upscales regular DVD's great. Its just the HD DVD's that look only so so. I changed the players settings to upscale to 1080i and theres no difference between that and the upscale to 1080p setting.
If thats the case can I still run everything thru the HDMI instead of components. Hate to think I wasted my money on the switcher. I guess I just thought there was going to be a much bigger difference. Its not the TV. Man HDNET and HDTHR on my Dish look awesome! I thought the HD DVD's would look just as good.

I did change it to 1080i since that is the native res of my TV. Sound doesnt seem as good either. I have an older Sony receiver that is Dolby 5.1 but not DTS. on regular DVD's it rocks. Run everything thru Optical. On this unit I have to turn it up about 25% more to get a good sound and it soesnt seem to send it to the rear surrounds as well. Man I just dont know at this point on this purchase. May be me though.

I tried and Belkin HDMI cable and returned it. Looked better using component cables. Try running single HDMI cable from DVD player to TV to see if it might be the switcher that is causing problems. HDNet and HDTheater are probably the two best looking HD channels. I have them, too. One of them, can't remember which, had a show on the other night about Venice and Italy. The clarity was unbelievable.

I'm still waiting to see which format dominates: BlueRay or HDDVD. Seems like the early days of Beta vs. VHS right now.

i have done all of the basic one here


APRTR-3 (APRTR-NTSC): 00
APRTR-G (APRTR-SDTV): 00
APRTR-I (APRTR-HDTV): 00
COLORG: 00 or 01
SRTGA: 00
STATG1: 06
STATG2: 00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YTDL value change from 07 to 08. What is this for and were is it located in the service menu and is it needed.

CDE from 00 to 01 Same question what is this one for were is it located in the service menu and is it needed.

OK..more on the HD DVD. I took VivatHD and Jwebb's advice and tried several things. The switcher is fine. So I went and tweaked the remote settings. Had to play around a lot but came up with Edge Enh at Low and Sharp up to 48. For some reason this combo worked very well on the HD DVD's. I also set the Player on 1080i. After several comparisons it was definetly the best way to go. Tried components but the PQ was the same. Which is fine if I didn't already have the switcher and paid for it. So I went with HDMI.

Thanks guys. The HD DVD PQ is now pretty nice. I guess trying to upscale to 1080p was adding way to much something into it. Now I have a deep film like look. Not the sharpness of an actual 1080p set but much more deeper colors and Picture.

i have done all of the basic one here


APRTR-3 (APRTR-NTSC): 00
APRTR-G (APRTR-SDTV): 00
APRTR-I (APRTR-HDTV): 00
COLORG: 00 or 01
SRTGA: 00
STATG1: 06
STATG2: 00
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YTDL value change from 07 to 08. What is this for and were is it located in the service menu and is it needed.

CDE from 00 to 01 Same question what is this one for were is it located in the service menu and is it needed.


I would turn the CDE off, I believe it's a "Color Detail Enhancer", I have mine at 0 amd colors look spectacular. Plus you don't want any type of enhancement circuitry on as it can only degrade the image. I also put my YTDL to 9 with no degrading effects, I looked for thick lines via DVE and AVIA. These are both in the 1360 potion of the service menu, scroll up or down and you'll run into both. CDE not needed, but in my opnion YTDL is.

The two biggest things I changed that had the greatest overall impact were the grayscale and color decoding. Before, I had a very good picture, now I have a truly dimensional image with no predominant colors, and a much larger pallette of colors to draw from. I wish I could take a picture that would accurately relect what I see, but alas I cannot. But just trust me, those two things along with the other tweaks are the key to happiness with the Hit, in my opnion of course.

I have a question. Can someone please post the default settings for

Wplvv or something like that-the setting in the service menu right after SRTGA

Black detection area settings right before STATG1

And the DGAIN and DG*** that are in that same area.

I am at work at can't look up the specific ones but accidently changed those and didn't write them down.

Trying to get it back but nothings seems right so figured one of you guys would have the original settings.

Thanx ahead of time

I would turn the CDE off, I believe it's a "Color Detail Enhancer", I have mine at 0 amd colors look spectacular. Plus you don't want any type of enhancement circuitry on as it can only degrade the image. I also put my YTDL to 9 with no degrading effects, I looked for thick lines via DVE and AVIA. These are both in the 1360 potion of the service menu, scroll up or down and you'll run into both. CDE not needed, but in my opnion YTDL is.

The two biggest things I changed that had the greatest overall impact were the grayscale and color decoding. Before, I had a very good picture, now I have a truly dimensional image with no predominant colors, and a much larger pallette of colors to draw from. I wish I could take a picture that would accurately relect what I see, but alas I cannot. But just trust me, those two things along with the other tweaks are the key to happiness with the Hit, in my opnion of course.
I will check the thread for the grayscaling and color decoding. If it requires DCAM though I am not at that level yet. I may try it if that is what it takes to get my HIT to the level of some of your sets. If you have the specific thread # or directions on how too that would be great too.

I will check the thread for the grayscaling and color decoding. If it requires DCAM though I am not at that level yet. I may try it if that is what it takes to get my HIT to the level of some of your sets. If you have the specific thread # or directions on how too that would be great too.

The color decoding or grayscale isn't really mentioned in any threads that I'm aware of, at least not how to get them done properly. More than likely in the case of the grayscale, it's becasue it's techinally impossible to do it without the proper toolset. But I eyeballed it as best as I could and improved on it. I did my color decoding by eye using a combination of what I thoguht was right, screengrabs from various sources, and flesh tones. My goal was tho get flesh tones as correct as possible and then everything else seemed to fall into place color wise. I tried using the color decoding section of AVIA, but apparently the closest to correct amount of red is way too much for me. But now I haev far more colors than I did before. I can't believe how much better things look now than before.

I would recommend you read as much as possible, there is tons of information available for HITs, the link to the previous thread on the first page of this thread helped out a lot as well. I also read a lot about front projection CRTS and went to check out one of the best in person (Marquee 9501 LC Ultra), all of this helped a great deal. And I can honestly say that right now, I have the best picture I've seen on a TV. Including a calibrated LOEWE I saw (which was insane, especially with the higher frame rate, motion was great), and the only think keeping it from beating a calibrated KURO is the cleanliness of the picture, apparent sharpness and detail level. I would still like to get ird of any extra noise but I can't. I'm thinking it's the nature of the beast as the projection portion is still attached to all sorts of extra crap you don't have in a FP set-up. I am still hoping someone can do some mods to it before it dies to tweak it out as far as it can possibly go.

Oh yeah, WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN BEFORE YOU CHANGE ANYTHING!!!! Can't stress that enough. You may also want to write down the effects one set of settings has on the picture, particulally the grayscale and color decoding. Too much red, too pink, not enough green, lost shadow detail, things like that.

I tried and Belkin HDMI cable and returned it. Looked better using component cables. Try running single HDMI cable from DVD player to TV to see if it might be the switcher that is causing problems. HDNet and HDTheater are probably the two best looking HD channels. I have them, too. One of them, can't remember which, had a show on the other night about Venice and Italy. The clarity was unbelievable.

I'm still waiting to see which format dominates: BlueRay or HDDVD. Seems like the early days of Beta vs. VHS right now.

Oh....just jump in!

Prices of both players are getting lower, with HD DVD being the lowest player-wise. But that price gulf is shrinking.

I grabbed a Tosh A2 back during the Nov. $99 "blowout" sale. One of the best AV purchases I've made IMO. Also got a couple of relatives turned onto HD DVD as well dring the holidays. The fact that the entry-level HD DVD players are "only 1080i" is a non-issue for us CRT RPTV folks.

If HD DVD prevails, great. As the old kinight in INDY JONES/Last Crusade said "You have chosen wisely". If not, I got into HDM for a low price and will still be able to watch those discs I have purchased for a long time to come.

I say go for it. Find the best deal and jump in. Fence-sitting will only prolong/stall this battle. Whichever format, if any, "wins" you can bet that dual format players (as well as the winning teams hardware) will see lower prices soon afterward. If you are one who bought into red or blu when players were still $500-$1000 and your then-pricey unit's format fails....that could be a bummer. For the 2nd wave of (not so) early adopters like myself, MrBob, Lee Bailey, Mustang68, et al......the final decision in HDM won't be so depressing.

The prolonged format war has only benefitted us by lowering hardware prices pretty rapidly.

Some quick HOST HD DVD Screens for REFERENCE. (Kevin Miller Calibrated)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_1570.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_1577.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_1578.jpg

I jumped in with the Toshiba HD DVD A20. If you read previous post you can see that I'm having to tweak it to get it right. If you want the best 1080i look possible then its a good deal. I imagine BLu-Ray is the same. I still haven't achieved that three dimensional look that you see on the LCD/Plasma 1080p sets. I haven't decided if thats my inability to tweak it right or if thats just the limit of the Hit set I have. I'm using this thread( which is the best) to make a few more changes.

I say get it. You will enjoy the pic.

I tried and Belkin HDMI cable and returned it. Looked better using component cables. Try running single HDMI cable from DVD player to TV to see if it might be the switcher that is causing problems. HDNet and HDTheater are probably the two best looking HD channels. I have them, too. One of them, can't remember which, had a show on the other night about Venice and Italy. The clarity was unbelievable.

I'm still waiting to see which format dominates: BlueRay or HDDVD. Seems like the early days of Beta vs. VHS right now.

My thoughts pretty much echo JWebb's and Mustang68's. Get an HD player, whichever format has the movies you want get that one, or do what I did and get both. I got the Samsung BDP-1200 becasue I wanted to get the best out of my SDDVDs that I could and believe me it makes a huge difference. I had a Toshiba dvd player and three Oppos, and the difference between the the players was always apparent. I also got a Toshiba HDA3 for $99 during the sales and love it as well. The picture on dvds isn't anywhere near as good as on my Samsung, but HD-DVDs look just as good as Blu Ray movies. And knowing I can walk into a store or look on-line and purchase any HD movie I want feels great!!! So bottom line, get an HD player, they aren't too expensive and you'll love it.

how do you change the grayscale and color decoding

how do you change the grayscale and color decoding

It's not as easy as it seems. It calls for a Calibration Disc & the changes of Red, Green & Blue Values within the Service Menu. It may also call for the changing of SUB-BRIGHT & SUB-CONTRAST Values

I have a question. Can someone please post the default settings for

Wplvv or something like that-the setting in the service menu right after SRTGA

Black detection area settings right before STATG1

And the DGAIN and DG*** that are in that same area.

I am at work at can't look up the specific ones but accidently changed those and didn't write them down.

Trying to get it back but nothings seems right so figured one of you guys would have the original settings.

Thanx ahead of time

From the service manual, which, for $20, you really should download:
(remember, these are the defaults)
SRTGA 10
WPLLVL 07
ABLPN 07
ABLGA 00
DGGAIN 00
DGAREA 00
STATG1 00
STATG2 03
YOUTG 00


FWIW, I found that CDE added motion blur, so I keep it at 0. YDTL I have currently at 0A. Subject to change, and, of course, YMMV.

It's not as easy as it seems. It calls for a Calibration Disc & the changes of Red, Green & Blue Values within the Service Menu. It may also call for the changing of SUB-BRIGHT & SUB-CONTRAST Values


IF you did the changes already can you list what you put for Red,Green & Blue Values in the serive menu and also the SUB-BRIGHT & SUB-CONTRAST Values

i know that every tv is different but they must be similar





Thank you

how do you change the grayscale and color decoding

It really is no small task to get these done correctly. I didn't use any instuments so I know mine isn't 100% accurate, but it far more accurate than it was before I "calibrated" them. I'll let you know what my settings are when I get home if you want to try them out. Your set will more than likely be different than mine though, but as long as you write down your previous settings, I can't tsee the harm.

FWIW, I found that CDE added motion blur, so I keep it at 0. YDTL I have currently at 0A. Subject to change, and, of course, YMMV.

EUREKA! I think you're right about this. I turned mine back to 00 and I do think you're right.

Does anyone know what YDELAY right below YDTL does?

I've been down the 'screwed up grayscale road' and trust me, its not a smooth ride. Be very careful messing with color drives in the service menu. As far as I'm concerned this is professional ISF calibrator (Mr. Bob) territory...

Guys,

I did the tweak to correct the color shift and power off, which worked awsome BTW, but I am still having an issue with my screen shifting to the left here and there while watching a DVD. My DVD player is hooked up with an HDMI cable. Is there anything I can do about this? Sorry if this has been answered previously; I did not see it.

Thanks!

I've been down the 'screwed up grayscale road' and trust me, its not a smooth ride. Be very careful messing with color drives in the service menu. As far as I'm concerned this is professional ISF calibrator (Mr. Bob) territory...

I would definitely agree. But since you can put everything back, I would say go for it. Don't be afraid to tinker as long as you can set it all back to how it was.

Ok life is getting better with my HD DVD problems. I have made these changes

APRTR-3 (APRTR-NTSC): 00
APRTR-G (APRTR-SDTV): 00
APRTR-I (APRTR-HDTV): 00
COLORG: 00 or 01
SRTGA: 00
STATG1: 05
STATG2: 00
YTDL: 09
CDE: back to 00
SHARP SDTV:1E

My HD DVD is lookin much better than before. This has allowed me to dial my contrast on the up front settings to 31 and brightness to 45. Sharpness is down to 43 and Edge Enh at low.

Can anyone think of anymore tweaks that will improve it more.

My Dish Sat channels still look great so everything is crossing over well.

I also see that LastButNOtLeast YTDL was set at 0A. Mine is 09. what would be the main differences here?

My picture settings:

Color-CBCR=44
Color-STD=22
ry-ph-cbcr=02
r/bga-cbcr-std=07
gy-ph-cbcr=0b
g/bga-cbcr-std=06

sub-brt=6f
brt-set=3f
subcnt=14



cde=00
blak-auto=00
black-detection=00
black-area=00
dggain=01
dgarea=00
statg1=06
statg2=00
ydtl=09

User menu is

contrast=28
brightness=58
color=51
tint-middle
sharpness=50
color temp=standard
everything off

GRAYSCALE

b-cut-s=6e
g-cut-s=75
r-cut-s=7a
r-drv-s=37
g-drv-s=3b

YMMV

I will try those as well and let you know. I dont know if my wife will let me jack with it anymore tonight though!!

My settings are much different than those posted by lord cloud. I doubt it has to do with me owning the 57f510. It's basically the same TV. Here are my settings for MOVIES as set by ISF Tech Kevin Miller:

User Menu:

Contrast: 40
Brightness: 43
Color: 60
Tint: 3 clicks toward RED(left)
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Standard

Service Menu: (ISF MODE) (Grey-Scale & D6500k Standard)

Sub-Bright: 7F
Sub-Contrast: 15

G DRIVE (STD) 45
R DRIVE (STD) 37
R CUTOFF (STD) 64
G CUTOFF (STD) 54
B CUTOFF (STD) 70

All other tweaks as suggested also have been done. As of right now I have a D6500K Calibrated set with the above settings I posted

Again here are 3 screens for reference as posted on the last page

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_1570.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_1577.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_1578.jpg

I think I will try both and see what works for my set. These Tweaks can be addicting. However my set has already improved a whole lot since I began.

I think I will try both and see what works for my set. These Tweaks can be addicting. However my set has already improved a whole lot since I began.

That's what it's all about. Tweaking until what you see is to your satisfaction :D

That's what it's all about. Tweaking until what you see is to your satisfaction :D

EXACTLY!!

My settings are much different than those posted by lord cloud. I doubt it has to do with me owning the 57f510. It's basically the same TV. Here are my settings for MOVIES as set by ISF Tech Kevin Miller:

User Menu:

Contrast: 40
Brightness: 43
Color: 60
Tint: 3 clicks toward RED(left)
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Standard

Service Menu: (ISF MODE) (Grey-Scale & D6500k Standard)

Sub-Bright: 7F
Sub-Contrast: 15

G DRIVE (STD) 45
R DRIVE (STD) 37
R CUTOFF (STD) 64
G CUTOFF (STD) 54
B CUTOFF (STD) 70

All other tweaks as suggested also have been done. As of right now I have a D6500K Calibrated set with the above settings I posted


BJF 96 how did you get your tv to D6500 kelvin

Mustang68 can you also post what your results are witch setting are better

BJF 96 how did you get your tv to D6500 kelvin

Professional Calibration by ISF TECH

is there any way i can do it myself

is there any way i can do it myself

The settings I posted were created by the ISF Tech. As far I checked there really are no other Value changes needing to be done.

Quote from the Hitachi Home Electronics Division's Auto Digital Convergence Pocket Manual, 2003 edition:

The customer can now push a single button to automatically readjust the convergence in case of convergence drift caused by the position of the set relative to the earth’s magnetic field." (bold emphasis mine)


This leads to a question. If you have your xxF59 series tv facing a non-standard compass direction, can this cause a propensity for more convergence drift than would be experienced with it positioned facing in a standard compass direction?

For instance, my tv faces southwest... it is angled into a corner and faces the living room which puts the screen facing southwesterly. Can this non-standard direction effect how long convergence holds (i.e. how much drift over time) vs. if the tv was facing, say, due west or due east?

This leads to a question. If you have your xxF59 series tv facing a non-standard compass direction, can this cause a propensity for more convergence drift than would be experienced with it positioned facing in a standard compass direction?

I believe the problem occurs when the set is MOVED. Its static orientation is of no consequence. That said, I have heard people say their convergence is "rock solid," and mine has been anything but. Go figure.

Guys,

I did the tweak to correct the color shift and power off, which worked awsome BTW, but I am still having an issue with my screen shifting to the left here and there while watching a DVD. My DVD player is hooked up with an HDMI cable. Is there anything I can do about this? Sorry if this has been answered previously; I did not see it.

Thanks!

This has not only been answered previously, but there is another thread devoted to the topic: "Hitachi F59 series HDMI Shift Issue discussion." The solution is to use component cables, though I, personally, found that a shorter, "better" HDMI cable eliminated the problem I had.