OK I ended up with these setting changes

YTDL 09
COLORG 01
STATG1 05
STATG2 00
YOUTG 01
APRTR SDTV 00
CDE 00*
SHARP SDTV 1E
SHARP HDTV 1C*
SRTGA 00
APRTR NTSC 00
APRTR SDTV 00
APRTR HDTV 00*
SUB BRIGHT 72
SUB CONTRAST 15
COLOR CBCR 42

*default

The rest didn't have a major impact so I left them at default. I have achieved good blacks and detail in areas that had previously had "black crush". I know when I messed with g/ba, gy, ry color std i started to get a washed out look so I kept those at default.

With that said can anyone tell me if any of these changes would affect "green push". I'm having this problem now. Its only slight. Anyway my picture is awesome right now. I know theres more and I may try to change the values again one at a time to see what I g et.

OK I ended up with these setting changes

YTDL 09
COLORG 01
STATG1 05
STATG2 00
YOUTG 01
APRTR SDTV 00
CDE 00*
SHARP SDTV 1E
SHARP HDTV 1C*
SRTGA 00
APRTR NTSC 00
APRTR SDTV 00
APRTR HDTV 00*
SUB BRIGHT 72
SUB CONTRAST 15
COLOR CBCR 42

*default

The rest didn't have a major impact so I left them at default. I have achieved good blacks and detail in areas that had previously had "black crush". I know when I messed with g/ba, gy, ry color std i started to get a washed out look so I kept those at default.

With that said can anyone tell me if any of these changes would affect "green push". I'm having this problem now. Its only slight. Anyway my picture is awesome right now. I know theres more and I may try to change the values again one at a time to see what I g et.

You can fix green push by lowering the value of green in the color decoder. It's the gy-ph-cbcr and g/bga-cbcr-std settings. GY-PH changes the ting of green and G/BGA changes the amount of green. The CBCR behind those settings relates to the HDMI input in my experience, and then high med or std depending on the color temperature.

If I'm wrong, please someone chime in, but in my experience on my set this is correct

OK...does the service manual describe each setting? IF it does I will buy it. A lot of the times I dont want to mess with some setting because I just dont know what it will do. Its kinda a waste of time to move values that my TV is not having problems with.

I didn't even try the GDRIVE and CUTOFf settings. Didn't have time last night and was worried because I didn't know what they would do.

Mustang68, I sent you a PM...

Unfortunately the service manual does not go into any detail about what each value in the service menu does. At best it gives only the full name instead of the value's abbreviation. It contains a set of tables that represent each page in the service menu's sub-menues (TA1360, etc).

Thanks guys! (VivatHD and jwebb)That will help a bunch. Right now I was able to tone down the green tint by taking a click down on the GY-PH. I'm still working on the HD DVD PQ. Looks a ton better but it has a lot of noise still in it that is not present in the DISH SAT channels or reg DVD's. Weird!! I took all ENH off and went with a 48 setting on up front sharpness. Still there. Lower than that is to soft. I'm sure I'm only a few tweaks away from getting it.

OK...does the service manual describe each setting? IF it does I will buy it. A lot of the times I dont want to mess with some setting because I just dont know what it will do. Its kinda a waste of time to move values that my TV is not having problems with.

I didn't even try the GDRIVE and CUTOFf settings. Didn't have time last night and was worried because I didn't know what they would do.

The drive and cut settings are your grayscale. Like I said, technically impossible to get right without training and the proper tools. And I think most people confuse it with the color decorder controls. The grayscale affects the black and white section of the picture. Whatever color it is skewed to, it will be in every single color on screen. The color decoder affects colors seperately, so if you have a problem with red or green push, deal with it in your color decoder.

As always, if I'm wrong, please correct me someone.

Lately I've been trying to find the perfect settings to use with the xbox 360 for the 51 inch series Hitachi but haven't had much luck.

I've read just about every page on this thread and every time I came across anyone who posted their settings for contrast/brightness/color/etc, I've jotted those down and tried them. It seems like most people tend to keep their contrast around 50 or below, which to me, seems kind of dark for the xbox, but happens to look great when watching HD programming.

So I guess I'm just wondering what some of you guys who have xbox's use for your settings and if you wouldn't mind sharing those.

Thanks a bunch!

- JG

Proud new owner of the 57" model!! Found a ridiculous deal at CC on an open box for $400! Apparently it came back on a service request for bad color and the manager said they repaired it with all new internal parts and said it was just like new.

I will be scouring this thread until my TV arrives tomorrow, but any quick suggestions that will greatly increase the picture quality would be much appreciated. Special thanks to everyone who uses this forum, it helped me greatly over the past 6 months in doing research. Once I posted in another thread about this deal two people immediately posted and said to buy this sucker immediately (I balked initially, but went back).

Thanks in advance for any help that any of you can provide!!

Here is a couple of pics from my set. I have been tweaking for awhile and finally found settings I dig. Also cleaned mine out, had it for a year, and colored the inside with a black Sharpie.

The pics are a smidge blurry because I am awful at photography but it gives you an idea of the pics I'm getting. Let me know what ya think.

I was wondering if I could get some opinions from you guys. My 51f59a is barely a year old, and it has been nothing but trouble since a few weeks after I got it. All together it has had 14 service calls (not all for the same problem), the signal board replaced, the red gun has been replaced, and several pieces have been soldered.

The reason those 4 problems turned into 14 service calls is because of the number of unqualified technicians fixing my television. There isn't a certified Hitachi tech anywhere in the State, so now I'm on my 3rd service center locally. Most of the technicians that have showed up didn't even know how to access the service menu...or even the DCAM code. So eventually ( after reading nearly every post on this board for the past year) I was able to fix most of their mistakes myself, and even help them fix my television...which I shouldn't ever have to do, but oh well.

The service center I'm using now actually knows a little about Hitachi, but isn't really qualified to handle overscan. So, when the signal board was replaced none of the info got transfered over, and now I'm back to scratch.

I actually had to redo convergence completely, and have managed to get the overscan percentage at an acceptable level. I do have one concern, though, and it's regarding the the overall placement of the grid itself, and some slight problems that take place in the far left and far right of my screen.

Every thing looks fine for the most part in the center, but when the picture scrolls from the inside towards the outer edges (the two places on the outside edges that are different in grid size) the image seems to distort a bit. It almost makes you feel like you're underwater. I know I shouldn't concentrate on the far left and right side of my screen when watching a movie or playing games, but I know it exists...and it bugs me way more than it should.

Can some of the pros on here...or even newer guys please take a look at my pic below and give me some feedback. Does my grid look right? Should the far edges (or even the far top and far bottom) be significantly smaller than the rest of the grid?

Oh, and lastly. When the picture is really dark (especially in scene transitions or on loading screens), there is a bright light shining at the top of my television now. The light is white, but it does look annoying when watching tv or playing games in the dark. Once again, it's only noticeable during screen transitions...not during actual gameplay or while watching movies. I just didn't notice this before I made all the corrections to my tv, and was wondering if something like Bright-set or Sub-bright in the service menu, or overdoing vertical overscan could cause this.

Thanks for any help in advance guys...I'm about to pull my hair out over this tv.

http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z43/TTakashi13/?action=view&current=DSCF0594.jpg

Thanks for any help in advance guys...I'm about to pull my hair out over this tv.


You get the gold medal for persistence. ;)
Now that you're close, go to the beginning of this thread and download the screen jig to help your geometry. Reduce DCUBRT to 1F and DCUCNT to 2D so the grid is actually usable. You will probably be able to get your overscan to about 4% with little trouble.
Getting the screen evenly white requires lens striping, which is probably way more trouble than it's worth right now.
If the white light isn't a reflection from outside, then it's a reflection inside. The serious approach is Duvetyne or commando cloth, which I have not been able to find locally and haven't bothered to mail order (yet :)). Many have just used a black Sharpie and colored everything that wasn't black. Of course, with the ace techs you've had, someone may have left a screwdriver inside.:D
Good luck.

Thanks guys! (VivatHD and jwebb)That will help a bunch. Right now I was able to tone down the green tint by taking a click down on the GY-PH. I'm still working on the HD DVD PQ. Looks a ton better but it has a lot of noise still in it that is not present in the DISH SAT channels or reg DVD's. Weird!! I took all ENH off and went with a 48 setting on up front sharpness. Still there. Lower than that is to soft. I'm sure I'm only a few tweaks away from getting it.

On my set the SRTGA value looked better at the default setting of 10---much sharper image-in user menu,I have sharpness @41

You get the gold medal for persistence. ;)
Now that you're close, go to the beginning of this thread and download the screen jig to help your geometry. Reduce DCUBRT to 1F and DCUCNT to 2D so the grid is actually usable. You will probably be able to get your overscan to about 4% with little trouble.
Getting the screen evenly white requires lens striping, which is probably way more trouble than it's worth right now.
If the white light isn't a reflection from outside, then it's a reflection inside. The serious approach is Duvetyne or commando cloth, which I have not been able to find locally and haven't bothered to mail order (yet :)). Many have just used a black Sharpie and colored everything that wasn't black. Of course, with the ace techs you've had, someone may have left a screwdriver inside.:D
Good luck.


The blacking the inside makes a big difference in brightness and contrast. I just did the Sharpie thing and it worked wonders. Of course I was high from the fumes afterwards..:)

But my contrast went all the way from setting in the 30's to 20 and Brightness went from mid 50's to 40. So it does make a difference.

Toshiro, your grid didn't look very abnormal to me... is that bulging effect apparent in actually looking at it or did your camera add that?... I only ask because my Canon digital camera used to add a little bit of curvature to photos.

Exactly how much surface area has to be colored in with a Sharpie? That sounds tedious as h^ll taking a marker to color in a lot of surface. Not to mention permanent--if you don't care for the result you're stuck with it anyhow :~|

I am a total TV noob and know next to nothing about TV's but I think something is wrong with my TV. It is a Hitachi 51F710A. The problem I am having is my green reproduction sucks. Watching football games or anything with natural out doors the grass is not very green at all. It is more of a brownish color. When I do a magic focus however the green is there but not in the programs that have it. I checked the picture on our other other TV and the grass is much greener. Anybody have any ideas??

Thanks BadBird94...I'll try it. I'm not sure if that is the major determining factor in my set though. My image has become much sharper. I no longer mess with Edge Enh. Persons on good HD Channels look almost 3D. Color is great.
Still working on HD DVD movies. Still have to much noise in the picture. Its getting there slowly. Lordclouds suggestion on Sub-Brightness and Sub-Contrast worked well also.

Exactly how much surface area has to be colored in with a Sharpie? That sounds tedious as h^ll taking a marker to color in a lot of surface. Not to mention permanent--if you don't care for the result you're stuck with it anyhow :~|

I got one of the HUGE black Sharpies and colored all the ply wood and the gray metal around the lens casing or whatever that is called. It took me about 15 to 20 minutes to do it. Not very hard other than making sure i didn't bump the lens with my arm was all. now when i look into my TV without the button panel on it is very dark in there. Made a big difference in my gray scale doing this.

I got one of the HUGE black Sharpies and colored all the ply wood and the gray metal around the lens casing or whatever that is called. It took me about 15 to 20 minutes to do it. Not very hard other than making sure i didn't bump the lens with my arm was all. now when i look into my TV without the button panel on it is very dark in there. Made a big difference in my gray scale doing this.

Any thoughts on how this may affect warranty coverage?

Any thoughts on how this may affect warranty coverage?

Not sure. My warranty went out on Dec. 29th but I would have still done it before, was just scared to take off the screen. But then realized not that big of a deal.

Someone like Mr. Bob would be the one to answer that but I do remember him saying somewhere that some did that through calibrations but I could be crazy.

You get the gold medal for persistence. ;)
Now that you're close, go to the beginning of this thread and download the screen jig to help your geometry. Reduce DCUBRT to 1F and DCUCNT to 2D so the grid is actually usable. You will probably be able to get your overscan to about 4% with little trouble.
Getting the screen evenly white requires lens striping, which is probably way more trouble than it's worth right now.
If the white light isn't a reflection from outside, then it's a reflection inside. The serious approach is Duvetyne or commando cloth, which I have not been able to find locally and haven't bothered to mail order (yet :)). Many have just used a black Sharpie and colored everything that wasn't black. Of course, with the ace techs you've had, someone may have left a screwdriver inside.:D
Good luck.

Thanks for the help guys :) I did download the screen jig but the local Pop Copy (Kinkos) said they didn't have the right material to print it out.

I will try the sharpie idea though...believe it or not I still have 4 years left on my warranty lol, so not sure on that decision yet. I actually had a Hitachi customer service rep tell me it was ok that I've been in the service menu and that I've touched nearly every part on my television, since the Techs didn't know what they were doing. So I guess I could blame the sharpie incident on them if it came down to it :)

And to VivatHD, yes the camera added a great deal of bulging to the whites. My convergence is pretty tight, but when I snapped the photo the whites grew dramatically in size. Thanks for asking though.

Reduce DCUBRT to 1F and DCUCNT to 2D so the grid is actually usable. You will probably be able to get your overscan to about 4% with little trouble.


I'm not familiar with those two options in the service menu. What exactly will reducing DCUBRT and DCUCNT do anyway?

MOre updates on Tweaks. Ok I reduced SRGTA to 05. Thats in the middle and seems to work. I again spent time tweaking in the other areas mentioned before but left them. Except for DGGain from 00 to 01,color-std to 21...YTDL only works at 09 for me. More and its to much noise.

I have the HD DVD Oceans 13. It is a very color saturated DVD. ITs good now except for the scenes where a lot of neon lighting is used. Such as the scenes when Pacino is standing under the neon lights outside. It get that almost CG look. Has anyone experienced this and what can be done?

Just being picky. Its amazing how much a RP CRT can be adjusted and how badly the Factory does it.

I'm not familiar with those two options in the service menu. What exactly will reducing DCUBRT and DCUCNT do anyway?

It takes the brightness and contrast of the Digital Convergence Unit grid down to where its about 50 ire in luminance. I have mine set that way. Seems to make it easier to eyeball the grid and see color fringing while doing a 117 point convergence. Also, since most of the content you're going to watch is displayed at a luminance closer to 50 ire than 100 ire, it may help a dialed-in convergence produce a tighter picture than when done with the grid at the factory default (100 ire) DCUBRT and DCUCNT values. And finally, if you're like me (perfectionist) and have the 117 point grid on-screen a long time it's easier on your CRT's phosphors.

It takes the brightness and contrast of the Digital Convergence Unit grid down to where its about 50 ire in luminance. I have mine set that way. Seems to make it easier to eyeball the grid and see color fringing while doing a 117 point convergence. Also, since most of the content you're going to watch is displayed at a luminance closer to 50 ire than 100 ire, it may help a dialed-in convergence produce a tighter picture than when done with the grid at the factory default (100 ire) DCUBRT and DCUCNT values. And finally, if you're like me (perfectionist) and have the 117 point grid on-screen a long time it's easier on your CRT's phosphors.

Thanks for the help man, I'll let you know how it works out. Also, sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, but maybe you could help me with a question I had concerning the grid.

Is there "one" grid design, or template rather that I should be following regardless of my overscan percentage? I guess I'm trying to figure out if the DCAM grid and the vertical and horizontal pots are different...or if they affect each other.

I know you mentioned for me to download the template from the 1st page (I think), but is that grid going to work with my overscan...or is that for default factory settings? After I adjust the pots on the circuit board, it shrinks my DCAM grid (obviously), so do I then just match all the colors up and be done, or do I raster position them all to match the template I downloaded?

Sorry to ramble, and I hope that made at least some sense. Thanks again for everybody's help. I really do appreciate it.

Overscan adjustments aren't my gig, so on this I defer to the more overscan knowledgeable members to chime in. I wouldn't move green though, without a screen jig (template) in place.

After I adjust the pots on the circuit board, it shrinks my DCAM grid (obviously), so do I then just match all the colors up and be done, or do I raster position them all to match the template I downloaded?


The jig is to get overscan and geometry back to default, relieving stress on the IC's. Once that's okay, using the trim pots to reduce the overscan and DCAM for convergence is "safe." The service manual offers some guidance here, as do the summary files available on the first page of this thread.
I get different results depending on the source (AVIA, DVE, THX, et al), which is frustrating, but, since my life really doesn't hang in the balance, I have things "kind of" centered, and, on most of them, my circles are round, which is the hard part about reducing overscan.
FWIW, I had the jig printed on Vellum at Kinko's for $18. Translucent, but not too bad. However, since I'm way anal, I recently redid the jig with thinner lines and am hoping to reprint it on something more transparent. Unfortunately, the one quote I got for Mylar was $110. I may be anal, but I'm not crazy, so I'm looking for other options.
Just keep in mind that, when it stops being fun, you're getting too carried away. It's a great set; enjoy it.
Michael

I have seen the same problem on my screen after taking in overscan. The left edge gets a mild distortion, like a fish eye lens, about 2 inches into the picture. It seems to only bother me though. It will take a longer session to tweak out the geometry. So, as previously mentioned, using the grid will only take you back to factory settings. You should be aware that when using the grid, you HAVE to start out with the uncorrected DCU to set your vertical and horizontal pots first. Then you can use normal DCAM to adjust to the grid. Of course, now you're back to a lot of overscan.

I have seen the same problem on my screen after taking in overscan. The left edge gets a mild distortion, like a fish eye lens, about 2 inches into the picture. It seems to only bother me though. It will take a longer session to tweak out the geometry. So, as previously mentioned, using the grid will only take you back to factory settings. You should be aware that when using the grid, you HAVE to start out with the uncorrected DCU to set your vertical and horizontal pots first. Then you can use normal DCAM to adjust to the grid. Of course, now you're back to a lot of overscan.


I think the fish-eye distortion you speak of (same issue with my set, post oscan reduction) may not be something that can be dialed out. Seem to recall Mr Bob's comments regarding the CRTs in TVs such as ours and the physical limitations that they can have.

Have attempted getting rid of it myself to no avail. When I think I have (usually using the DCAM "fine edge" grid mode), when I think I've done it, I end up with lineraity issues elsewhere (using CNN HD's bottom text ticker as a regular reference). Have got it to the point that it's almost unnoticable, unless I spend my days watching just the fine edges of the screen.

Maybe Bob can add to this next time he cruises past this thread?

Mustang68 here is a link were some one that i think as the same tv as us and one one of there people there has ISF tech comeout to tweak his tv and he list his setting

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=944903&highlight=hitachi+red

P.s. tell me what of think of the settigns

I just Replaced my Hit screen..57F59A and I think, I must have placed one of the reflecting Squares(Magic Focus) at a wrong position on the inside frame because after I was done I pressed MF and then (lookin at the screen) on the left side it started to warp up a little. Now its not lined up correctly. the lines on the 117pt conv. is off. All the lines from the middle to the left is floating up.. Should I take the screen off again and adjust the squares. Or is there another way around this to get it right..??? Thank You

I think the fish-eye distortion you speak of (same issue with my set, post oscan reduction) may not be something that can be dialed out. Seem to recall Mr Bob's comments regarding the CRTs in TVs such as ours and the physical limitations that they can have.

Have attempted getting rid of it myself to no avail. When I think I have (usually using the DCAM "fine edge" grid mode), when I think I've done it, I end up with lineraity issues elsewhere (using CNN HD's bottom text ticker as a regular reference). Have got it to the point that it's almost unnoticable, unless I spend my days watching just the fine edges of the screen.

Maybe Bob can add to this next time he cruises past this thread?

Yeah, I was kinda curious as to what Bob thought as well. Thanks for all the help from everyone else, too. I appreciate it.

Since the "standard" grid that exists doesn't really help with overscan, it would be nice if we had several templates for different overscan percentages. That would be a lot of work, but how else are we supposed to know what layout is correct after we perform overscan adjustment?

I guess the slight distortion and "fish-eye" effect we see is because of the smaller grid sizes on the far left and right. This leads me to believe that it can't properly display the images in those regions because of the smaller grid. Does this sound right? And if so, is there anyway to change the grid throughout the whole screen to make all the boxes the exact same size?

Finally, a while back I came across the correct dimensions for every box within the DCAM grid, but I can't remember where I saw them. Does anybody have this available? I think I have the center pretty well taken care of, but I'm not sure the smaller squares at the left, right, top, and bottom are the correct measurements.

I think this might have something to do with the distorted picture on the outside, but I'm not really sure. Thanks everybody!

mustang I tried the setting and they look good the skin tone dont look as flush

mustang I tried the setting and they look good the skin tone dont look as flush
Before I try the changes.

How is the sharpness of the images? I have mine dialed now to the point that the images are sharp and color looks OK. Still have a little green tint that can only be seen sometimes.

Before I go to far what exactly does the White Balance settings do? I'm happy with my HD Sat. Its mostly the HD DVD PQ I haven't gotten there yet. I know that some people dont care but I like the 3D look of images along with this TV's ability to show richness of color and depth of images.

you can alway right down your setting it only took me only about 2-5 mins to change. you only have to click a few time on the control

you can alway right down your setting it only took me only about 2-5 mins to change. you only have to click a few time on the control
Oh Man! I made the DRV and CUT changes along with the values I had already changed. Had to cut back Sub Brgt to 70 from my previous change of 72. My SRTGA is 05. B CUT HIGH is 95 instead of 99. Other than that I made all the other changes from that post you attached.

My up front settings are
Cont-28
Brgt-43
color-48
sharp-45
tint-Mid

It looks great. What I kept calling noise was more a washout of heavy color saturated scenes. The CG look that I was getting is almost gone. Not all but most of it is gone.

Skin tones on HD TV and HD DVD are much more realistic and alive.

I want to thank everyone so far. I keep tweaking and experimenting and getting closer and closer. I recommend everyone who is playing around for the right settings to try the settings from the link in post #1279.

Isn't this what this thread is all about though!!!!!!!!!!!!

mustang hd dvd is dead blue ray won

lordcloud what tv do you have

Thank you

lordcloud what tv do you have

Thank you

I have the 51F59A.

I am a total TV noob and know next to nothing about TV's but I think something is wrong with my TV. It is a Hitachi 51F710A. The problem I am having is my green reproduction sucks. Watching football games or anything with natural out doors the grass is not very green at all. It is more of a brownish color. When I do a magic focus however the green is there but not in the programs that have it. I checked the picture on our other other TV and the grass is much greener. Anybody have any ideas??


When's the last time you opened it up and cleaned the optics?

Lordcloud or anyone else!!!What exactly does these settings do?

Color-CBCR=44
Color-STD=22
ry-ph-cbcr=02
r/bga-cbcr-std=07
gy-ph-cbcr=0b
g/bga-cbcr-std=06

MY PQ started getting a little off on color when I messed with them before. Now that I have done the DRV and CUT changes do you think these will add to the PQ?

Lordcloud or anyone else!!!What exactly does these settings do?

Color-CBCR=44
Color-STD=22
ry-ph-cbcr=02
r/bga-cbcr-std=07
gy-ph-cbcr=0b
g/bga-cbcr-std=06

MY PQ started getting a little off on color when I messed with them before. Now that I have done the DRV and CUT changes do you think these will add to the PQ?

These are your color decorder setting, except for the top two. They basically determine how much of a color is shown relative to the olor colors as well as the tint of the colors. They DRAMATICALLY affect your picture.

Those of you who have "blacked out" the inside of your sets using a Sharpie must have the patience of Job. After about 5 minutes, I realized the job would take me until the end of the month, but only if I didn't eat or sleep. So I got a can of flat black paint and a one inch brush and went to town (carefully). The (white, of course) caulk in the corners was impervious to the paint and the Sharpie, so I just covered that with electrical tape.
The astute observer will see that I also redid the lens striping, since the black changed (in a good way) the color balance on the screen.
Mr. Bob will probably notice that I cleaned the mirror again, too.
And he'll probably point out a spot or two that I missed.:)

Before:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1060/beforeog3.jpg



After (a little closer - it was hard, since it was SO much darker):
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8141/afterkf1.jpg

I would love to do that one day. Right now my wife is sleeping with one eye open to keep me away from adjusting my set. She has to sleep sometime though!!!!!

Why did you paint it gray inside?... :p And a BRUSH? You shoulda tape-covered the lenses and cut loose with a spray can of Krylon...

O.K., just kidding :D I actually envy all of you that have the courage to open up your set and do this.... I'm chicken. :eek:

I think I'm going to try getting black fabric, cutting out holes for the guns, and attaching it to the inside somehow.

Why did you paint it gray inside?... :p And a BRUSH? You shoulda tape-covered the lenses and cut loose with a spray can of Krylon...

O.K., just kidding :D I actually envy all of you that have the courage to open up your set and do this.... I'm chicken. :eek:

Actually I was the same as you, very araid to open my TV. But taking off the screen is not that bid og deal to tell ya the truth. Alot of screws to mess with, 14 i think, but the actual screen and stuff is very easy.

I was sweating bullets when I was doing it butafter the screen was off wasn't that big of deal. Heck my wife helped me and she hates me messing with the TV. :p

I think I'm going to try getting black fabric, cutting out holes for the guns, and attaching it to the inside somehow.

Duventyne cloth is really easy to find online. And as for attaching it, you simply let gravity do its magic and lay it down over everything from the back opening. It's super simple.

Duventyne cloth is really easy to find online.

Easy to find. And shipping costs as much or more than the fabric. Which offends me somehow. I couldn't find it locally, so I went with paint.
You want Duvetyne (or "commando cloth") because it's fire retardant.

I think finally (but don't quote me) my screen is going to stay attached for a while. I had considered using Velcro, since I was REALLY tired of dealing with all those screws.

Lordcloud....I made some of the color decoder changes but changed them back to default. Gave me a little red hue. I should have played around more but I ran out of time. The colors popped and stood out more in scenes on my HD DVD w/ the changes. I probably could have messed with the values with R in front and made the adjustments.

I noticed that you only listed a few values but there seemed to be more that were associated with the decoder. Am I right? If so is it worth it to tweak those as well?

Lordcloud....I made some of the color decoder changes but changed them back to default. Gave me a little red hue. I should have played around more but I ran out of time. The colors popped and stood out more in scenes on my HD DVD w/ the changes. I probably could have messed with the values with R in front and made the adjustments.

I noticed that you only listed a few values but there seemed to be more that were associated with the decoder. Am I right? If so is it worth it to tweak those as well?

The ones I listed are the ones that work for the standard temperature on the HDMI input as far as I can tell. The others are for different temps on different inputs. I adjusted my settings using skin tones. I adjusted until I got skin tones as correct as I could and everything else seemed to fall into place. Not perfect I'm sure, but far better than before. The longer values are the amount of color, the shorter ones are the tint. You basically want it so that no one color stands out and that you are seeing more colors and shades than before.

I would also say that for anyone trying to make their picture better, particularly if you have a new set; keep going back to a few movies for comparison. For me, I used the Superbit of The Fifth Element and The LOTR extended editions, particularly the Fellowship and The ROTK. And once I got a Blu Ray player it was the remastered edition of The Fifth Element. It's easier to tell what progress you've made if you have a benchmark, at least it helped me. The differences in key scenes of those movies from when I first brought the TV home to today is enormous.

I'm looking for a convergence jig for a 53UWX10B. Anybody know were I can get one? thx

I would also say that for anyone trying to make their picture better, particularly if you have a new set; keep going back to a few movies for comparison. For me, I used the Superbit of The Fifth Element and The LOTR extended editions, particularly the Fellowship and The ROTK. And once I got a Blu Ray player it was the remastered edition of The Fifth Element. It's easier to tell what progress you've made if you have a benchmark, at least it helped me. The differences in key scenes of those movies from when I first brought the TV home to today is enormous.
I'm definetly not arguing. My set is 100% better than before and I was happy then. I think I will try a few more HD DVD's to dial it in. That Oceans 13 is just to saturated with heavy color scenes. Everything is neon or washed out in red to get the dramatic effect.

Right now the tweaks are getting it closer and closer.

OK...All the work with my HD DVD Player and tweaking it just right. Now I'm told that Blu-Ray has almost wrapped it up. Oh well I still have my Hit and a good home theater!

The following studios have committed to Blu-ray: Warner, Sony, Disney, Fox and Lionsgate. Universal and Paramount are setting up to do the same. R.I.P. HD-DVD

I'm definetly not arguing. My set is 100% better than before and I was happy then. I think I will try a few more HD DVD's to dial it in. That Oceans 13 is just to saturated with heavy color scenes. Everything is neon or washed out in red to get the dramatic effect.

Right now the tweaks are getting it closer and closer.

It will only get better as time goes on and you read more and get a better understanding of what the various settigs do as well as what the picture should actually look like. I wish I could take an accurate pic of what my set looks like, not perfect but far better than if you were to see it in a store.

is there any way to fix overscan in the service menu even a little





Thank you

is there any way to fix overscan in the service menu even a little





Thank you

I don't believe it's in the service menu, there are trimpots inside the front of the set that allow you to reduce overscan. I beieve if you do a search on this thread you'll find out exactly where, you'll also want to do a search on geometry and DCAM as well, becasue once you reduce overscan, your geometry and convergence will be FUBAR.

What causes the screen to start exhibiting what looks like a loss of optical focus in each corner, maybe 6 inches out but only in the corner, in other words like if you anchored a compas in the corner and drew an arc 6 inches out in each corner? This is apparent on the 117 pt grid, even though the convergence is properly aligned-- looks like the grid lines in the corners are getting fuzzier.

Also, my convergence is starting to fluctuate. It was rock solid for the longest time, but lately I've had to touch it up fairly often. I don't want to have to start dabbling with DCAM on this one.

I have had this tv for 10 months.

If this set starts having problems like the last 51F59 did, I'm going to have to jump ship and look at getting an LED DLP. I seriously don't want to have to got that route, though. I like the 51F59, it just annoys me sometimes.

I don't believe it's in the service menu, there are trimpots inside the front of the set that allow you to reduce overscan. I beieve if you do a search on this thread you'll find out exactly where, you'll also want to do a search on geometry and DCAM as well, becasue once you reduce overscan, your geometry and convergence will be FUBAR.

Right.

Not only that, if you get it too reduced, your magic focus will lose the ability to work correctly because the sensors around the screen will not be properly bombarded by their proprietary internal MF program.


Mr Bob

What causes the screen to start exhibiting what looks like a loss of optical focus in each corner, maybe 6 inches out but only in the corner, in other words like if you anchored a compas in the corner and drew an arc 6 inches out in each corner? This is apparent on the 117 pt grid, even though the convergence is properly aligned-- looks like the grid lines in the corners are getting fuzzier.

Also, my convergence is starting to fluctuate. It was rock solid for the longest time, but lately I've had to touch it up fairly often. I don't want to have to start dabbling with DCAM on this one.

I have had this tv for 10 months.

If this set starts having problems like the last 51F59 did, I'm going to have to jump ship and look at getting an LED DLP. I seriously don't want to have to got that route, though. I like the 51F59, it just annoys me sometimes.

If you've only had it for 10 months, get it serviced by Hit immediately. This should not be happening. Factory warranties are usually a full year. Whatever time you are out of service on it, should be exended by the manufacturer for you.

Get the word "should". Some do and some don't. So hop on this posthaste, you may need whatever time you have left for further, as yet unknown problems.

Hits don't have a rep for being troublesome, but you never know what you may encounter on a brand new unit. Some people actually prefer to buy refurbs just to get a head start on all of that -


Mr Bob

Almost forgot to link to this thread for those that may have missed or overlooked it:

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273639

This thread helped me out immensely, I believe it was here that I learned about the color deocder settings and a few other things and that's when my picture made a huge change for the better.

I'll check that thread out!

Is it common for the 51f59 to get way out of convergence for no reason. I turned my set on today and it had a bleached out look. I hit MF and it was right back to what I had set ip up for. Kinda worried me since this is the second time in 2 weeks it did that. The first time was only a slight change. This time it was a lot. Wondering if any of the service menu changes could do that. The ones I made are exactly the ones I have detailed here before and nothing different than anyone else.

Is it common for the 51f59 to get way out of convergence for no reason.

Define way out. Mine does you described, i.e. it can be exhibiting a razor tight picture and then out of the blue the next day the picture is kind of ho-hum (after necessary warm-up etc), check 117 pt and sure enough red and blue are pulling away from each other (diverging) enough that you can see it. Well, my eye sees it. My wife says I'm too critical, but then I say she lacks an eye for details...

We know the magnetic field of Earth effects convergence. I know my tv faces direct southwest, i.e. an oddball compass angle. Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know.

That I know of, there are no service menu values that effect convergence stability.

Almost forgot to link to this thread for those that may have missed or overlooked it:

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273639

This thread helped me out immensely, I believe it was here that I learned about the color deocder settings and a few other things and that's when my picture made a huge change for the better.

Now if you think I'm going to start all over again, well, you're probably right. Thanks, I think.
Michael

does anyone know were to get free overscan test picture that are reliable

Now if you think I'm going to start all over again, well, you're probably right. Thanks, I think.
Michael

Yeah, I thought I got it as best as I could get it a while ago. I was wrong, and I know there may still be things I can do before I get it professionaly done.

Right now I have just two issues with my set that keep me from falling helplessly in love. Picture noise that is most prevalent on SD DVDs and sometimes blacks aren't as solid and deep as they should be. The black issue is one I'm wondering if Duvetyne will help or cure. It seems to make sense as I'm thinking the issue has partly to do with the light path on the inside of the tv. I think stray light is affecting the light path and tarnishing my blacks. I can only describe it as it looks to me as though the projector is projecting black but a flashlight is being shines from the side through the beam and there's an amount of light in the blacks. it's kinda pissing me off. i need to get that screen off and take a look at the mirrors as well I think. Optics cleaning will have to wait.

Right.

Not only that, if you get it too reduced, your magic focus will lose the ability to work correctly because the sensors around the screen will not be properly bombarded by their proprietary internal MF program.


Mr Bob

Yep, I've been without Magic Focus for many months now.

OK...All the work with my HD DVD Player and tweaking it just right. Now I'm told that Blu-Ray has almost wrapped it up. Oh well I still have my Hit and a good home theater!

Don't sweat it. Did you get into HD DVD on the cheap? I did w/ the A2 $99 sale back in November. For a c-note, I got the player & 7 movies. Have bumped up my HD DVD collection to around 25 right now, and will continue to buy/rent titles as they become available.

The WB announcement/HD DVD death knell (not the first time it's been rung, BTW) sounds bad for the format. But all the Tosh players I've seen appear to be built very well - certainly as good/better than most mid-priced to budget DVD players. Don't think they're gonna all vaporize any time soon. You'll still be able to watch your HD discs for years to come. And by the time the world goes "all Blu" (if ever), there is a very strong chance that you will be able to rip your HD DVDs & dump 'em onto BD discs on a PC.

I think the new Toshiba plan of attack - cut gen 3 player prices & a new (hopefully better) ad campaign - could work out for them. If I were Toshiba, I would market the excellent DVD upconversion these players provide. With the HD-A3 now with a street price of under $150 (+2 movies in box, 5 via rebate), you get a DVD player that upscales DVD as good if not better than just about anything else in it's price range....and, oh yeah...it plays HD DVDs, too!! Could work in HD DVD's favor if done correctly. Let's face it, we are back to the era of entry level HD DVD players being half the price of the comparable BD SA player, and even less than the cheapest PS3. Price rules for the general consumer. We'll see howe it plays out....

As far as Uni/Para/DW.....there has been a lot of talk about potential BD support. But until the words "We are dumping HD DVD" come from their mouths, I would not worry. Would not be surprised if those studios ride out 2008 w/ their current format. They will be watching to see if BD players really take off (neither format has, really). And I'm sure they are more concerned w/ SA player numbers than PS3s. I also think Uni will be the last to surrender. They have been HD DVDs biggest champion amongst the studios.

Perhaps Toshiba/HD DVD PG have discussed this, but another great move would be for the HD studios to put together a massive release schedule for '08.....especially from their combined back catalogs. Send the "fat lady" back to her dressing room. She's not on just yet!

If the current "fire sale" @ Toshiba somehow led to A LOT of HD DVD players sold this year---could happen---then the "war" is still on. I wonder if WB has an "out clause" of their own, should player sales do well btwn now & May (when WB officialy become Blu-only).

Sorry to jack the thread....but since I started this one, I feel I have the right once in a great while!:D Hope the mods agree!

Yeah, I thought I got it as best as I could get it a while ago. I was wrong, and I know there may still be things I can do before I get it professionaly done.

Right now I have just two issues with my set that keep me from falling helplessly in love. Picture noise that is most prevalent on SD DVDs and sometimes blacks aren't as solid and deep as they should be. The black issue is one I'm wondering if Duvetyne will help or cure. It seems to make sense as I'm thinking the issue has partly to do with the light path on the inside of the tv. I think stray light is affecting the light path and tarnishing my blacks. I can only describe it as it looks to me as though the projector is projecting black but a flashlight is being shines from the side through the beam and there's an amount of light in the blacks. it's kinda pissing me off. i need to get that screen off and take a look at the mirrors as well I think. Optics cleaning will have to wait.


Optics cleaning is your only issue, if your set is more than a year old and you are concerned about your blacks. The duvetyne op doesn't hold a candle to what a crystal clear light path will deliver for you.

Part of my cals is to take a big black magic marker in there on all sets that have any shiny stuff in there - I believe the Hits actually have bare metal showing all over the place in there, but have not done one recently, so don't hold me to that - but any shiny stuff in there has to be blackened.

On the Pioneers, they leave HUGE amounts of bare metal in there, the Mits only the screw heads and tails. All of them leave the wingnuts exposed, except the Mits, which use black duvetyne tape to secure the lens barrels in their turrets rather than wingnuts.

I don't feel a huge need for the duvetyne op in any of my cals, because after my optics cleaning ops, plus my magic marker work, the blacks are crystal clear and just dazzling, like they should be. Shadow detail is all there, NO struggling to see it anymore. Might possibly get just a tiny bit better with duvetyne as well, but the before and after differences are so incredibly stark after just the optics cleaning and the blackening, that I just don't sweat it. We all view the end results with our jaws on the floor as it is.


Mr Bob

Don't sweat it. Did you get into HD DVD on the cheap? I did w/ the A2 $99 sale back in November. For a c-note, I got the player & 7 movies.

I did too, but secondhand, not getting the 2 included movies that other sales had. So I was able to send for 5 for free. Which have not arrived yet, I am being SO patient...!

:D

Can't wait to send in some screenshots of Ultraviolet...


Is there any way to get more? And if so, is that door closed by now?

:(


Mr Bob

I agree with you JWebb. I'm sticking to it and tweaking away on my set with my HD DVD player.

BTW VivatHD... I define it as the whites being over powering everything else diminished. After MF it was OK. I did some tweaking on 117 conv and its basically back to normal. Just wondering what could have caused it to be that far off. I also waited 30 minutes for the warm up and it didn't change until after MF.

Part of my cals is to take a big black magic marker in there on all sets that have any shiny stuff in there - I believe the Hits actually have bare metal showing all over the place in there, but have not done one recently, so don't hold me to that - but any shiny stuff in there has to be blackened.
Mr Bob

Welcome back from CES. You missed my post #1292, above.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1060/beforeog3.jpg




Dang, you guys have been busy while I've been gone! While at CES, I try to avoid these theads at all costs! You know how much I like to be in there in the trenches. I stick strictly to my emails, if at all possible.


I think you're overdoing it on your lenstriping, which will reduce some of your light level when overdone this much. I think you should remove the inner tapes.

Unless of course you have tested this very carefully, and this setup works best.

I have never seen that much lenstriping done by the factory, on any set. It's covering up great areas of your lenses, causing the CRTs to have to work overtime to deliver the proper light levels.

I had forgotten how much of the inside of a Hit is NOT black. Shame, shame, shame on Hit...

There are BIG magic markers, like half an inch wide, and they make blackening the inside go really fast.


Yes, CES was fabulous!

And yes, I DID see the new 150" Panny plasma in action! Not the Mit laser TV tho, I was not on the guest list...

:(


Mr Bob

I think you're overdoing it on your lenstriping, which will reduce some of your light level when overdone this much. I think you should remove the inner tapes.

You didn't see the "after." Though, unfortunately, the green blob in the middle of the right edge is back, so I have to get back in there after all. First thing we watched was the "Ice Worlds" chapter of Planet Earth, and it was obvious (okay, maybe not "obvious") during the many white scenes.
It never ends.

I did too, but secondhand, not getting the 2 included movies that other sales had. So I was able to send for 5 for free. Which have not arrived yet, I am being SO patient...!

:D

Can't wait to send in some screenshots of Ultraviolet...


Is there any way to get more? And if so, is that door closed by now?

:(


Mr Bob


Bob,

I sent off my Toshiba rebate on 11/3/07. Movies arrived on 1/10/08. You can call 1-800-405-7520 to get the status on yours.

The 3-4 wks shipping I was told to expect when I called to find my order had shipped (shipped 1/3/08) obvously took exactly one week from Minnesota to California.

You didn't see the "after." Though, unfortunately, the green blob in the middle of the right edge is back, so I have to get back in there after all. First thing we watched was the "Ice Worlds" chapter of Planet Earth, and it was obvious (okay, maybe not "obvious") during the many white scenes.
It never ends.

Oh, so you completely removed all that tape on the side lenses? Cool.

The after pic does show some shiny screwheads still blazing away in there, tho, if the out of focus pic can be believed...

And you did the wingnuts too?

Curious about that green blob you're trying to eradicate - never seen that before -


Mr Bob

I did too, but secondhand, not getting the 2 included movies that other sales had. So I was able to send for 5 for free. Which have not arrived yet, I am being SO patient...!

:D

Can't wait to send in some screenshots of Ultraviolet...


Is there any way to get more? And if so, is that door closed by now?

:(


Mr Bob

More movies or players?

The current rebate runs thru mid-year, I believe. The recent gen 3 player price cuts can be found mostly online, although B&M's are catching up. My local Circuit City had the gen 2 HD-A2s in stock over the weekend for under $120!

The now-$149 retail A3s (cheaper if you look around), do come with 300 & BOURNE IDENTITY in the box + the 5 freebies by mail.

More movies or players?

The current rebate runs thru mid-year, I believe. The recent gen 3 player price cuts can be found mostly online, although B&M's are catching up. My local Circuit City had the gen 2 HD-A2s in stock over the weekend for under $120!

The now-$149 retail A3s (cheaper if you look around), do come with 300 & BOURNE IDENTITY in the box + the 5 freebies by mail.

The DVDs themselves is what I'm looking for. Someone sent me word or posted online awhile back about how to get 10 free movies - 2 in the box, 5 on the rebate, etc.

I didn't get any in the box, but aside from the 5 rebate ones there was supposed to be some way to get 3 more, can't find that info now, think it was some post or other...


Mr Bob

The DVDs themselves is what I'm looking for.

Amazon, right now:
http://dealnews.com/lw/artclick.html?2,208142,524452
The offer for 10 was for the A20, the A2 got 5.
For the price, still a deal.

Will address your "green blob" question when time permits - wanted you to know about the DVD's ASAP.
Michael

Amazon, right now:
http://dealnews.com/lw/artclick.html?2,208142,524452
The offer for 10 was for the A20, the A2 got 5.
For the price, still a deal.

Will address your "green blob" question when time permits - wanted you to know about the DVD's ASAP.
Michael

Oh well, that's OK. I got a steal on the player, so I'm not complaining. Got the 5 - just wish they'd get here!

Wow, excellent prices on those offerings, at Amazon. I am definitely going there when it's time to beef up my supply!

Thanks!


Mr Bob

Curious about that green blob you're trying to eradicate - never seen that before -


An old screenshot, before I got carried away with the electrical tape. The left side is red, but it's even, so that is easy to deal with (or ignore). The right side, though, has that semicircular shadow, pretty much halfway down.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8045/overscaned4.jpg

At least now I have a flat, dark screen (looks very cool when the set's off).

And that's a sale at Amazon, not their regular prices, so you may want to reconsider waiting.

Michael

Good point, didn't know it was a sale. Will have to hop on it!

Do you have a screenshot of how the white screen looks now, with the tape you have on it now? (With the set off, of course it's gonna look OK...:p)



Mr Bob

LastButNotLeast,

Since applying the black-out paint job, what have you noticed overall w/ your set's pic - other than the color balance?

Any other settings needing changes? Overall a better/worse/no change in overall PQ?

Curious, as I have considered such a mod myself. Haven't had huge issues w/ internal reflections, but anything that'll improve things even slightly is worth the time to me.

Color balance has also not been a real issue for me, but since lens striping seems a rather easy mod, I might consider it as well.

Would appreciate your thoughts/comments.....

Do think a giant Sharpie such as the ones Bob mentions would not be a huge job, time wise....but paint would work, too.

does anyone know any reliable pictures i can use to test my overscan

LastButNotLeast,

Since applying the black-out paint job, what have you noticed overall w/ your set's pic - other than the color balance?

Any other settings needing changes? Overall a better/worse/no change in overall PQ?

Curious, as I have considered such a mod myself. Haven't had huge issues w/ internal reflections, but anything that'll improve things even slightly is worth the time to me.

Color balance has also not been a real issue for me, but since lens striping seems a rather easy mod, I might consider it as well.

Would appreciate your thoughts/comments.....

Do think a giant Sharpie such as the ones Bob mentions would not be a huge job, time wise....but paint would work, too.

I second that question, I'm looking into doing the same thing.

does anyone know any reliable pictures i can use to test my overscan


The one LastButNotLeast posted below (or above, depending on your Forum settings) from the DigitalVideoEssentials DVD is a good one. Same for those found on AVIA.

If you get HDNet, they run HD Test Patterns some early Saturday or Sunday mornings. I'd do a search online to find the next air date & DVR it if possible.

Have heard the HDNET stuff is a bit overscanned as broadcast....but it's free (with satellite subscription;))

To all of the above:
Painting the inside (or Sharpie, if you prefer) is not difficult (once you get the screen off, anyway). I think my blacks really are blacker, and there is more definition in the dark scenes. I did not change any settings, though I haven't had much time since. No pictures, yet, either. Next week plan to redo the striping to try to eliminate the tint on the right. Guess I'll break out the tripod again after that.
Only concern I have with this mod is how it might affect the warranty. Decided to do it anyway.
And, of course, with the recent link to the old thread describing a way to check grey scale, I'll probably end up changing everything again, anyway.
I saw a sig that I really wish I could credit that sums it up: "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."
So I'm still at it.
Michael

Cool. Thanks, Michael.

Might have to give these a shot soon. Not worried about warranty on my end. Didn't buy an EW, & the Hitachi warranty expired back in November.

If/when something goes wrong, I may just pony up & get Bob down here for repairs & a cal. job.

Is there a step-by-step posted somewhere for removing the screen? Also, is it possible to accidentally bork the Magic Focus sensors that are attached to the screen when you take the screen off, or do they stay in place okay?

I'm kicking around doing the black-out of the interior in a few months when the warranty expires.

Is there a step-by-step posted somewhere for removing the screen? Also, is it possible to accidentally bork the Magic Focus sensors that are attached to the screen when you take the screen off, or do they stay in place okay?

I'm kicking around doing the black-out of the interior in a few months when the warranty expires.

The front unscrews just like getting to the lenses to focus, plus two more screws that just hold the screen frame. Then there are 14 screws around the top and sides from the back. A power screwdriver with an extension bit is highly recommended.
Magic Focus sensors are screwed in at eight points around the frame, holding in the screens. They won't move unless you want them to. BTW, who cares?
Don't forget to unplug the 3 magic focus plugs, pictures of which have been posted. And, of course, if you actually want to use MF, remember to plug them back in (yup, I forget that once).
Get some Sprayway for the mirror, while you're at it.
Michael

I'm thinking about doing this black-out thing also this weekend. I'm guesssing taking off the screen should be self explanitory. But as far as cleaning the mirror...i've got some sprayway, but what do I use for a cloth? Will paper towels work, or should I use a 100% cotton t-shirt, or is there some other kind of cloth I can get locally, like at walmart or something like that?

Thanks

I'm thinking about doing this black-out thing also this weekend. I'm guesssing taking off the screen should be self explanitory. But as far as cleaning the mirror...i've got some sprayway, but what do I use for a cloth? Will paper towels work, or should I use a 100% cotton t-shirt, or is there some other kind of cloth I can get locally, like at walmart or something like that?

Thanks


Use clean white paper towels, the rougher the better. They will not scratch your mirror or your lenses as long as they are even slightly damp, and definitely not when wet.

I have tried newspapers, which work great for clear glass, but leave tons of lint in the air in this application. Cloth is not nearly absorbent enough.

You will have to go over the mirror with wide back and forth or up and down strokes over and over and over again, even with Sprayway - usually takes me 5 passes before I begin to get satisfied - and you'll use LOTS of paper towels.

BUT NEVER RUB THE LENSES. With ANYTHING. No back and forth movements, just one careful wipe per section, AFTER the liquid you have sprayed on it has had a chance to get under the gritty particulates and suspend them away from the plastic surface. Then be raising the contaminants OFF the surface as you go, with each single pass of the scrunched up paper towels.

And if you are using anything but Sprayway foam on the lenses, be sure to not let it run down and penetrate the lower edge of each lens, or it will fog up the lower lenses inside.


I usually consult with owners personally about this stuff these days, to make sure nothing I say gets taken wrong or out of context, so take what I am saying carefully, and don't be a cowboy in there. I have not told you everything here you need to watch out for, and it's easy to slip up. These optics are fragile and irreplaceable, and those who want to be sure - to have personal help about it before taking on this learning curve - should arrrange a phone consult with me.

The rest, those of you who want all the info you can get without putting anything out for it, are DIYers, and you're on your own. I try to share what I know, but I do so very carefully. Don't take anything I say, interpret it for yourself without checking it out with me, and then blame any negative results you may encounter, on me! I have seen people saying I said this and that about optics cleaning, and it was NOT what I had said. There's a lot of misquoting going on out there, from what I've been seeing lately.

But I just couldn't let this one go by. The more people who have bleary looking, worn out looking CRT RPTVs who master the art of cleaning their own optics, the more their owners will be amazed to find that their sets are NOT worn out after all, and will want to keep them, rather than spending an arm and a leg on a new set. Their old arm and leg - the ones they spent on their present units - were more than enough thousands of $ to spend as it was, thank you very much...

They will find that with a crystal clear light path again, the set - looking new again now - merits and deserves that set possibly getting the more intense calibration work, to make it then a truly stellar experience to watch. And hopefully will want to take those sets to the next level.

Good luck -


;)


Mr Bob

Thanks a ton Mr Bob! I think i'll stay away from the lenses...they seem to be pretty fragil by what i'm reading. But i'll definetly give that mirror a good cleaning. I'm hoping that this black-out thing that i'm going to do with a big sharpie is going to make at least a little bit of a difference on my 51F59. Like someone else said, i'm a little bit nervouse about taking apart my TV.

Thanks again.

Thanks a ton Mr Bob! I think i'll stay away from the lenses...they seem to be pretty fragil by what i'm reading. But i'll definetly give that mirror a good cleaning. I'm hoping that this black-out thing that i'm going to do with a big sharpie is going to make at least a little bit of a difference on my 51F59. Like someone else said, i'm a little bit nervouse about taking apart my TV.

Thanks again.

The lenses are what need most of the work. You will also get lots of fallout from spraying the mirror, if you don't cover the lenses below. Be careful not to scratch the lenses, if you do cover them in any way. They are plastic, and very delicate in their finish.

Call me if you want guidance on this quest. It's worth doing well.


Mr Bob

An old screenshot, before I got carried away with the electrical tape. The left side is red, but it's even, so that is easy to deal with (or ignore). The right side, though, has that semicircular shadow, pretty much halfway down.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8045/overscaned4.jpg

At least now I have a flat, dark screen (looks very cool when the set's off).

And that's a sale at Amazon, not their regular prices, so you may want to reconsider waiting.

Michael

Hey, sorry if this is common sense, but where did you get that image for overscan adjustment. Which DVD did you find that on? And what retail chains (walk in) could I find one at? The reason I say Walk in is because I'd like to go buy one today ,rather than do the online deal and wait for shipping. Thanks in advance

My wife works as a licensed Optician and deals with eyeglass lenses. They're often polycarbonate or plastic. They never use paper towels or kleenex or any paper based tissue. They say to use a lens cleaning cloth or micro fiber lint-free mini-towel. As such, I would be afraid a paper based product would scratch the plastic lenses in the F59. Wouldn't one of those lint-free auto polish micro fiber cloths that are guaranteed not to scratch the finish on classic cars, be a better choice than a paper towel for the F59's lenses?

Hey, sorry if this is common sense, but where did you get that image for overscan adjustment. Which DVD did you find that on? And what retail chains (walk in) could I find one at? The reason I say Walk in is because I'd like to go buy one today ,rather than do the online deal and wait for shipping. Thanks in advance

From Digital Video Essentials. There's an HD version (combo) too if you like. I doubt very much that you'll find either in any store. Just not enough call for it from the general public. I have heard that you can rent it from NetFlix, though.

My wife works as a licensed Optician and deals with eyeglass lenses. They're often polycarbonate or plastic. They never use paper towels or kleenex or any paper based tissue. They say to use a lens cleaning cloth or micro fiber lint-free mini-towel. As such, I would be afraid a paper based product would scratch the plastic lenses in the F59. Wouldn't one of those lint-free auto polish micro fiber cloths that are guaranteed not to scratch the finish on classic cars, be a better choice than a paper towel for the F59's lenses?

When I cleaned the optics on my 57F59A, I used Sprayway (as recommended on this forum). I sprayed it directly on a folded paper towel until the towel was quite moist (didn't spray directly on the lens because the stuff is like a foaming monster and I was worried about it getting places I didn't want it), then placed the towel on a lens (didn't wipe or rub, just let it sit to loosen any dust). Then I removed the paper towel (no wiping), and wiped the lens clean/dry with a microfiber towel, in one direction, turning to a clean towel surface after each wipe. Then repeated the process and moved on to the next lens.

My wife works as a licensed Optician and deals with eyeglass lenses. They're often polycarbonate or plastic. They never use paper towels or kleenex or any paper based tissue. They say to use a lens cleaning cloth or micro fiber lint-free mini-towel. As such, I would be afraid a paper based product would scratch the plastic lenses in the F59. Wouldn't one of those lint-free auto polish micro fiber cloths that are guaranteed not to scratch the finish on classic cars, be a better choice than a paper towel for the F59's lenses?

Cars have already been sprayed and rinsed of their dirt before you use those auto polish cloths. They are already being used on a basically clean surface. Not so on plastic lenses in CRT RPTVs. Which face nearly straight up and are LOADED with layers and layers of gritty particulates, just waiting to get at the delicate surfaces of the lenses, with just a few wrong moves on the part of the cleaning person. I had to point out horrendous circular scratches to one guy in Vegas whose CRTs had been replaced, but whose tech had done SOMETHING in there to cause huge circular scratches to the CRT coolant covers in there under the lenses, in the process. Probably went to simply "dust it" using a clean dry cloth, grinding it in there dry, going back and forth in a circular motion. Would fit the results. The scratches were permanent, the CRTs had to be replaced. They had only been a year old, and were in otherwise still perfect condition.

I like the absorbancy of the paper towels, since we have LOADS of crap to have to pick up off those surfaces after all those years. You can't just turn the whole unit over upside down, to get the stuff to roll off the lenses properly, like you can what rolls off a car with the rinsing.

Eyeglasses don't ever have that kind of load to have to pick up, of gritty particulates. Nothing I have ever seen even comes close. HUGE amounts of crud, entire thicknesses of nasty, gritty particulates, all facing virtually straight up. Innovative technology was needed.

For me, that innovative technology was using paper towels rather than any kind of cloth, and having those towels always at least partially wet whenever they are touching a plastic surface. They are like the perforated rubber mats used behind bars, where anything that drops down there goes into the perforations, rather than under the bartenders' feet, where they can be slipped upon. In the 20 years I have been doing this, after the first few mishaps I have never had to worry about scratching plastic lenses the way I started to do things after that. You of course are free to do as you wish.

I also use my technique on my plastic reading glasses, of which I use 3 different powers, depending on the app. I NEVER rub them. I always use 1 swipe, in one direction only, just like I do on RPTV plastic lenses, after wetting them and rubbing diluted soap on them (the glasses, that is), then rinsing them thoroughly and immediately doing the 1 stroke thing. In that case I usually use toilet paper, because of the much lighter crud load of eyeglasses, but have occasionally used paper towels as well, always very gently but thoroughly, and always partially wetly. They work fine as long as you don't try to use them dry with no wetness at all involved. I know of no dry method that would work with glass or plastic, regardless of whether it's paper or cloth that's used.

Works like a charm.

Now on my camera lenses, I use a special spray that is very volatile and fast drying and smells so, but is specially formulated for that purpose. Again, never any usually many years-old gritty crud load to have to deal with there, nor on eyeglasses.

We don't have anything out there that is specially formulated for the purpose of cleaning lenses on CRT RPTVs, tho there is stuff out there for cleaning the viewscreens. I think my way is the closest to ideal you'll come, for the internal optics in RPTVs. Works for me, and has been, flawlessly, for 20 years.


Mr Bob

When I cleaned the optics on my 57F59A, I used Sprayway (as recommended on this forum). I sprayed it directly on a folded paper towel until the towel was quite moist (didn't spray directly on the lens because the stuff is like a foaming monster and I was worried about it getting places I didn't want it), then placed the towel on a lens (didn't wipe or rub, just let it sit to loosen any dust). Then I removed the paper towel (no wiping), and wiped the lens clean/dry with a microfiber towel, in one direction, turning to a clean towel surface after each wipe. Then repeated the process and moved on to the next lens.

Sprayway should be sprayed directly onto the lenses, one at a time. It will NOT go down inside, like a liquid cleaner like Glass Plus - good for the front surface mirrors, BTW, has no ammonia - would.

The crud on there needs to become suspended in liquid before it will be safe to remove, from the plastic lenses. Yes you can do that with just laying the wetted paper towel on there, but it won't be as thorough or as direct, as spraying something directly on the lenses.

But beware of using any liquid spray - Windex without ammonia D, Glass Plus - which WILL crawl in down there at the bottommost edge, immediately, to fog up your internal lenses in the lens stack, down below.

You got to nip that in the bud - DIVE DIVE DIVE with your paper towel to the bottommost edge and let the liquid run into THAT, rather than down inside.

And using paper towels is more absorbent and has more spacious openings in it than cloth, for getting the crud OFFA there safely.


Mr Bob

Removed the three hundred screws holding the screen on last night. Didn't take it completely off as I was just kind of experimenting. I did look inside and saw the CRT goodness though. And tonight I'll be stopping by Wally World to get the biggest Shrpie I can find and doing up the inside.

My two biggest problems with my set are noise and depth of black, and hopefully this will help with the latter. I know it won't cure it, but it should help, and something is better than nothing. If anyone doesn't know what I mean when I say depth of black, maybe I should be saying something along the lines of the "purity" of black. And what I mean by that is that in a scene with black in it, all I see is the black off of the disc, not contaminated by light in any way. Some times when a scene has a lot of black in it(and a great test for this is the first Crow movie; a great movie and an incredibly film-like transfer IMO) the black can look a little washed out and grey, a little empty. It's not bad enough to want a new set beasue of it, I would imagine most people wouldn't even notice, but I'm losing depth and realism when it does happen. This one is frustrating me and sticks out like a sore thumb because of how nice everything else is. Hopefully this brings me closer to nirvana, which I swear I'm not that far away from with this set. I'll let you guys know in depth what I think of it afterwards.

Removed the three hundred screws holding the screen on last night. Didn't take it completely off as I was just kind of experimenting. I did look inside and saw the CRT goodness though. And tonight I'll be stopping by Wally World to get the biggest Shrpie I can find and doing up the inside.

My two biggest problems with my set are noise and depth of black, and hopefully this will help with the latter. I know it won't cure it, but it should help, and something is better than nothing. If anyone doesn't know what I mean when I say depth of black, maybe I should be saying something along the lines of the "purity" of black. And what I mean by that is that in a scene with black in it, all I see is the black off of the disc, not contaminated by light in any way. Some times when a scene has a lot of black in it(and a great test for this is the first Crow movie; a great movie and an incredibly film-like transfer IMO) the black can look a little washed out and grey, a little empty. It's not bad enough to want a new set beasue of it, I would imagine most people wouldn't even notice, but I'm losing depth and realism when it does happen. This one is frustrating me and sticks out like a sore thumb because of how nice everything else is. Hopefully this brings me closer to nirvana, which I swear I'm not that far away from with this set. I'll let you guys know in depth what I think of it afterwards.
Well I haven't opened mine up yet but I do think that the RP CRT sets just blast everythig else to dust when it comes to displaying black. Even without the mods my blacks are so much richer and deeper than the LCD/Plasma's and DLP's. That was one of the reasons I chose my Hit over the other technologies!

Well I haven't opened mine up yet but I do think that the RP CRT sets just blast everythig else to dust when it comes to displaying black. Even without the mods my blacks are so much richer and deeper than the LCD/Plasma's and DLP's. That was one of the reasons I chose my Hit over the other technologies!

The blacks I have now are superb, but that little bit of light seeping has to go for me.

I'm not ruling it out. I already floated the idea out there so my wife wont freak when I decide to do it.

From Digital Video Essentials. There's an HD version (combo) too if you like. I doubt very much that you'll find either in any store. Just not enough call for it from the general public. I have heard that you can rent it from NetFlix, though.

Hey, I actually found DVE (DVD version) at Barnes and Noble of all places after searching the entire day :) My only question is I could only find the overscan pattern that says 720 x 480...not the 1080 one thats in your pic. Am I missing something.

Is it because I may have (not sure...I'm at work) my Xbox 360 set to 720 rather than 1080 in the display settings?

Lastly, will using the 720 X 480 screen to adjust my overscan make my 1080 setting perfect as well...or am I wasting my time using that 720 x 480 screen to adjust overscan if I only watch and play games in 1080?

Thanks, and sorry if I'm somewhat confusing.

Hey guys (and gals?). My thanks to all the great contributors on this thread, first off. Helped convince me to jump at a 51F59A from UECWeb.com

I can definitely see the potential in my set for great picture quality, but it arrived OOB with some nasty geometry issues. I would like to give the set a fresh setup - overscan, focus, convergance - from an uncorrected state and adjust it to the Hitachi recommended specs with their screen jig.

Unfortunately, I cannot find any place around here to print the screen jig on mylar or even vellum! The (multiple) Kinkos are useless and the commercial places want to charge an arm and a leg.

Can anyone here with access to a shop that can print a screen jig please give me a price quote for a screen jig? Please PM me if you have an offer. Or, if anyone can post a link to an online supplier of the official Hitachi screen jig, that would be much appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Darryl

Just did this today. The pictures are a little different because one I used a flash, and the other I didn't...but you get the idea. Taking off the screen wasn't bad at all. The only thing that sucks is that my house smells like a sharpie now...but hopefully that will go away. One other thing is, the fat sharpie will not fit in the little tight spots. I'd reccomend getting a smaller sharpie also, or a brush with some paint.


http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q313/integ3/Before.jpg?t=1200710875
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q313/integ3/After.jpg?t=1200711339

The sharpied metal looks pretty reflective. Although it has to be better than when it was bare. Would be great if there was some sort of matte powder-coat type black stuff that could be applied.

Sprayway should be sprayed directly onto the lenses, one at a time. It will NOT go down inside, like a liquid cleaner like Glass Plus - good for the front surface mirrors, BTW, has no ammonia - would.

The crud on there needs to become suspended in liquid before it will be safe to remove, from the plastic lenses. Yes you can do that with just laying the wetted paper towel on there, but it won't be as thorough or as direct, as spraying something directly on the lenses.

But beware of using any liquid spray - Windex without ammonia D, Glass Plus - which WILL crawl in down there at the bottommost edge, immediately, to fog up your internal lenses in the lens stack, down below.

You got to nip that in the bud - DIVE DIVE DIVE with your paper towel to the bottommost edge and let the liquid run into THAT, rather than down inside.

And using paper towels is more absorbent and has more spacious openings in it than cloth, for getting the crud OFFA there safely.


Mr Bob

How long do you let it(sprayway) sit on the lens before you wipe it off?

How long do you let it(sprayway) sit on the lens before you wipe it off?


About 10 seconds. Goes for Sprayway or anything else. As a foam, SW won't run down into your deeper lenses. Any liquid cleaner will, so you have to get your absorbtion in place at the bottom edge of the lens immediately upon spraying, then let it sit there for 10 seconds, as the liquid runs down onto it.


Mr Bob

Hey, I actually found DVE (DVD version) at Barnes and Noble of all places after searching the entire day :) My only question is I could only find the overscan pattern that says 720 x 480...not the 1080 one thats in your pic. Am I missing something.

Is it because I may have (not sure...I'm at work) my Xbox 360 set to 720 rather than 1080 in the display settings?

Lastly, will using the 720 X 480 screen to adjust my overscan make my 1080 setting perfect as well...or am I wasting my time using that 720 x 480 screen to adjust overscan if I only watch and play games in 1080?

Thanks, and sorry if I'm somewhat confusing.

The regular DVD prolly won't have a 1920x1080i/p pattern. The HD version will.


Mr Bob

Hey guys (and gals?). My thanks to all the great contributors on this thread, first off. Helped convince me to jump at a 51F59A from UECWeb.com

I can definitely see the potential in my set for great picture quality, but it arrived OOB with some nasty geometry issues. I would like to give the set a fresh setup - overscan, focus, convergance - from an uncorrected state and adjust it to the Hitachi recommended specs with their screen jig.

Unfortunately, I cannot find any place around here to print the screen jig on mylar or even vellum! The (multiple) Kinkos are useless and the commercial places want to charge an arm and a leg.

Can anyone here with access to a shop that can print a screen jig please give me a price quote for a screen jig? Please PM me if you have an offer. Or, if anyone can post a link to an online supplier of the official Hitachi screen jig, that would be much appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Darryl

Well, I went with a plain white paper copy of the screen jig that I could print up at work. With all the lights out, it worked ok. Would've been much better if it were laminated just for the added rigidity. The diffraction from white paper is definitely not ideal for use as a screen jig, but it was better than nothing. FYI, my set's overscan pots were set way off the recommended settings OOB.

Next up, figuring out how to fix the soft focus around the perimeter, especially in the corners, of my screen, then it's on to figuring out how to use my Spyder2 with HCFR. The picture already looks much better with more accurate geometry and convergence.

I will be doing the DCAM convergence for the first time --I have the downloaded file on how to do this- Question?--It says to make sure you have a signal on selected input-If I do input 3,does cable box need to be on?If I do input 1, does dvd player need to be on? If you do a convergence on input 3,is it just for that input or is it universal?( Do you need to do convergence for all inputs?) Thanks.

The only thing that sucks is that my house smells like a sharpie now...but hopefully that will go away.


I've considered doing this, but that was my concern, especially with the heat generated inside the case.

Let us know how long it takes for the odor to go away.

I will be doing the DCAM convergence for the first time --I have the downloaded file on how to do this- Question?--It says to make sure you have a signal on selected input-If I do input 3,does cable box need to be on?If I do input 1, does dvd player need to be on? If you do a convergence on input 3,is it just for that input or is it universal?( Do you need to do convergence for all inputs?) Thanks.

Convergence is global.... one size fits all.

Do it with content playing on the screen before you go into the convergence adjustment screen.

I've always found DCAM convergence and the magic focus tuneup menu manual 117 point convergence to yield two different results. The user 117 pt convergence found under the magic focus tuneup user menu seems to be the dominant one. So what I do for DCAM is as follows:

Dial in the tightest convergence I can using the standard user menu (magic focus tuneup menu) 117 point I can get. Then I go into DCAM and without making any changes to the grid in DCAM mode, I just write to ROM, re-init magic focus, and exit. It matches RAM (user 117 pt convergence data) to ROM (DCAM convergence data). Seems to work good for me. Your Mileage May Vary...

What I mean by them being slightly different is that if I get a tight dial-in done in DCAM then look at the user 117 point grid via the magic focus tuneup menu, I'll notice color fringing where it wasn't fringing on the DCAM grid. And vice versa: If I dial in a tight user 117 point manual convergence and then bring up DCAM, I see color fringing on the DCAM grid that wasn't fringing on the user 117 point grid.

Did the Sharpie thing, so far not impressed. Blacks look almost worse, not as deep, but it was about three in the morning so I'll reserve final judgement for tonight.

The regular DVD prolly won't have a 1920x1080i/p pattern. The HD version will.


Mr Bob

Well, I decided to go ahead and adjust overscan using the 720 x 480 screen from DVE (I used my 360 which is set at 1080i btw). Everything looks really good and I'm happy, but when I switched inputs to view my PS3 and make sure it looked good as well, I ran into a problem.

The entire top of the screen was blank, as if the picture didn't extend all the way to the top. Here's the weird thing; I then switched my PS3 display from 1080i down to 720p and the picture returned to normal....just like on my 360.

Anyone know why this is? Why can my 360 display my overscan perfectly at 1080i while my PS3 has to display it at 720p?

Thanks guys!

I've considered doing this, but that was my concern, especially with the heat generated inside the case.

Let us know how long it takes for the odor to go away.

It's not bad at all. The next day I couldn't even smell it, and I was running the TV all day. Mabye i'm just getting used to it. But it's cold where I live so I coudn't open up and windows when I was doing the job. I'm sure if you opened up the windows in the room you were doing it in it wouldn't be so bad.

Can't say I notice much of a difference though in by blacks...good thing it was cheap to do.

Well, I went with a plain white paper copy of the screen jig that I could print up at work. With all the lights out, it worked ok. Would've been much better if it were laminated just for the added rigidity. The diffraction from white paper is definitely not ideal for use as a screen jig, but it was better than nothing. FYI, my set's overscan pots were set way off the recommended settings OOB.

Next up, figuring out how to fix the soft focus around the perimeter, especially in the corners, of my screen, then it's on to figuring out how to use my Spyder2 with HCFR. The picture already looks much better with more accurate geometry and convergence.

Before you set up your geometry, you should first set the mechanical/electronic focus on the guns. Because if you adjust focus later, you will probably need to re-run your geometry. I found this to be the case, especially when I focused Blue on my set.

Sharpie?????

There is SUCH an easier, and better, way.

First, all that outgassing of solvent from the marker sends shivers up my spine. Scary.

Better solution: Pick up some black fabric. Cheap is something like black fleece. Expensive is a nice Fidelio velvet ("only" $25/ yard!) It's directional in terms of axis of best "blackness", something to keep in mind.

You can something as simple as cutting an opening for your lenses, drape the fabric over the bottom of the interior and cover all the offending stuff. This is also completely reversable if there's any warranty issue. No odor, either!

While you're at it, pick up some black foamcore (paper-clad will do) and whip up a quick lens hood. That's a simple baffle that blocks direct side-firing light from the CRT lenses from hitting the screen. Do a search and you'll find more info. The trick is to make the hood as large as possible without blocking 1) the projection path from lens to mirror and 2) the projection path from mirror to screen. There's a sweet spot that fills a void just under where the two paths intersect. It's a balance of size, location, and angle of the baffle. Moving a piece of white paper around the area between the lenses and screen will reveal the "hot zones" and the sweet spot.

Me... I did an outrageous full treatment to the interior of my Sony 65WV700 with Fidelio black velvet over a set of a dozen or so custom-fit plastic-clad foamcore panels to create a faceted "stealth" interior. They fit in such a way that only two small screws were needed to hold the very top horizontal panels in place, making it completely reversable. I need to set up a public link to pics of that... way crazy!

Convergence is global.... one size fits all.

Do it with content playing on the screen before you go into the convergence adjustment screen.

I've always found DCAM convergence and the magic focus tuneup menu manual 117 point convergence to yield two different results. The user 117 pt convergence found under the magic focus tuneup user menu seems to be the dominant one. So what I do for DCAM is as follows:

Dial in the tightest convergence I can using the standard user menu (magic focus tuneup menu) 117 point I can get. Then I go into DCAM and without making any changes to the grid in DCAM mode, I just write to ROM, re-init magic focus, and exit. It matches RAM (user 117 pt convergence data) to ROM (DCAM convergence data). Seems to work good for me. Your Mileage May Vary...

What I mean by them being slightly different is that if I get a tight dial-in done in DCAM then look at the user 117 point grid via the magic focus tuneup menu, I'll notice color fringing where it wasn't fringing on the DCAM grid. And vice versa: If I dial in a tight user 117 point manual convergence and then bring up DCAM, I see color fringing on the DCAM grid that wasn't fringing on the user 117 point grid.

I don't have the experience to speak toward the difference between user and DCAM convergence results. Adding to the answer for the original question, the signal you receive before going into DCAM mode does not matter if you are using the service mode grid pattern. Pressing "menu" (I think it was "menu") during DCAM cycles through different ways to view the service mode grid - grid only, grid overlaid on the input signal, adjustment point overlaid on the input signal, etc.

Be sure to adjust the brightness and contrast of the DCAM grid before setting the convergence. It makes a HUGE difference! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12152722#post12152722 (Post #1033)

Also, the service manual is a well spent $15.

If you are confident you can make focus adjustments, those should be done before geometery/convergence. I am just learning and taking one step at a time, so I kept the OOB focus for now. Geometry/convergence does not require any physical adjustment to the TV set other than setting the convergence pots, which is very easy to do. Also, my set had obvious geometry problems and the convergence pot settings were way off the recommended specs.

Before you set up your geometry, you should first set the mechanical/electronic focus on the guns. Because if you adjust focus later, you will probably need to re-run your geometry. I found this to be the case, especially when I focused Blue on my set.

Thanks for the input, Lee! I had immediate geometry concerns and felt confident that I could make those adjustments but less confident in making any focus adjustments. A little more research on this board and re-reading the service manual should get me ready. One step at a time for this noob. This board is a great resource.

Geometry/convergence does not require any physical adjustment to the TV set other than setting the convergence pots, which is very easy to do.

What are you referring to by convergence pots? Do you mean the electronic focus pots for Red, Green, and Blue?

Before you set up your geometry, you should first set the mechanical/electronic focus on the guns. Because if you adjust focus later, you will probably need to re-run your geometry. I found this to be the case, especially when I focused Blue on my set.

What are you referring to by convergence pots? Do you mean the electronic focus pots for Red, Green, and Blue?

No, I mean the two pots that are on the same PCB as the blue service switch. The service menu discusses the adjustments for these pots in sections 2.8 and 2.9 (horizontal and vertical size adjustment).

jwebb1970 posted a very helpful message about these adjustments in post #19 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9642993#post9642993

The distance between the green lines was a few inches less than recommended both horizontally and vertically OOB on my TV. I believe this could cause unwanted stress on the convergence IC's, but I could be mistaken. Can anyone confirm that? My guess is that having the convergence pots far off the recommended settings could cause geometry issues, too.

No, I mean the two pots that are on the same PCB as the blue service switch. The service menu discusses the adjustments for these pots in sections 2.8 and 2.9 (horizontal and vertical size adjustment).



Okay, I gotcha now. But I wonder how come your was out of spec out of the box as new? Strange.

Has anyone found anywhere to get a convergence jig on Mylar? Would be handy as h^ll to have around just in case...

Just got a pm, and have permission to share it with fellow Hitachiphiles. I mean, who counts the hours on RPTVs??? He obviously has taken great care of this beast.

Please contact him directly -


Originally Posted by mypepper
Good evening Mr. Jones,

I'm trying to sell my 1 1/2 year old Hitachi 57F59 to someone in the Bay Area that would appreciate a excellent piece of electronics. My set is in excellent condition and the CRT's only have a total of 216 hours on them.

Since your in the calibration field, maybe you know of someone looking for a quality piece of equipment. I'm asking $700.00 dollars or their best offer.

I'm located across the bay from you in Millbrae, Ca and my direct email address is: mypepper@pacbell.net

Thank you so much for your time and I enjoy all your excellent and informative postings.

Thanks again,
William Randy Rose


Mr Bob

Okay, I gotcha now. But I wonder how come your was out of spec out of the box as new? Strange.

Has anyone found anywhere to get a convergence jig on Mylar? Would be handy as h^ll to have around just in case...

That jig on mylar would definitely be valuable. The plain white paper worked for me, but it was far from ideal.

That my convergence pots were out of spec may have had something to do with my TV being a refurb. I also had to carry it up about a dozen stairs. I was setting it down pretty hard by about stair #5!

All the best,

Darryl

Some times when a scene has a lot of black in it(and a great test for this is the first Crow movie; a great movie and an incredibly film-like transfer IMO) the black can look a little washed out and grey, a little empty.

May want to see if your source has an adjustment for black level. You may be able to set it for BTB (Blacker than black, IRE=0, something like that) which will probably help. Supposed to turn it off for calibration, but that may do what you want.

May want to see if your source has an adjustment for black level. You may be able to set it for BTB (Blacker than black, IRE=0, something like that) which will probably help. Supposed to turn it off for calibration, but that may do what you want.

Good call on the source controls.

I wanted to use my DVD player and Xbox360 on the same TV input (switched through my AV receiver). My DVD player has global contrast/brightness adjustments, but I don't think the 360 does. So, I calibrated the TV with the Avia DVD in my 360 then switched to the DVD player and calibrated by leaving the TV settings and changing the DVD player settings. Of course, I got HDMI cables to take advantage of my DVD player's upconversion two days later and needed to recalibrate!

May want to see if your source has an adjustment for black level. You may be able to set it for BTB (Blacker than black, IRE=0, something like that) which will probably help. Supposed to turn it off for calibration, but that may do what you want.

The problem actually seems to be an issue inherent in RPTVs. Light spills out into the black area of the picture when there is also light in the scene. The issue pops up only when there is light in a dark scene.

Thanks so much for the education. I really appreciate it. I do.

-So what your saying is (if I understand you correctly) if I were to run the component cables from my upscaling dvd player to my Hitachi 51F59, I would not realize the difference between analog and digital? I thought the uncompressed digital signal was the whole "better" aspect of HDMI vs analog RGB, especially on a larger screen.

So the whole HDMI hype is "just that" HYPE FOR DRM?
I feel so stupid!

Hey, I know this question is about a year old now and slightly off-topic, but I felt I should chime in quickly.

Whether or not you get the upscaled signal through the component inputs depends on the DVD player. The component connection itself is obviously capable of carrying an HD signal, even 1080p. But, some DVD players (such as mine) will only send the upscaled signal out through HDMI. Obviously, you need to check your DVD player's user manual and use the appropriate connection.

The problem actually seems to be an issue inherent in RPTVs. Light spills out into the black area of the picture when there is also light in the scene. The issue pops up only when there is light in a dark scene.

FWIW, since I blacked out the inside of the set, I do notice an improvement in, for example, the nighttime image of the bridge at the end of DVE's demo montage. I used to see just flares of light, but now they have much better definition.
Mr. Bob would probably also suggest that your optics may not be spotless, but I'm just guessing there.:)

Before my sharpie job

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/BeforeSharpie.jpg

After

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/AfterSharpie.jpg

After looking a little harder, the blacks improved slightly. But my main issue is still there. After further reading, the problem seems to be lens flare. Basically light bouncing aroung inside the lens and then making it's way to the screen. If anyone has a copy of the crow, it's very obvious a litte ways into the second chapter when the camera is moving down the top of the building. SO, I am currently making a lens hood, as some people say that helps(will keep you posted). I may eventually, if I'm brave enough, actually tackle modding the lenses themselves ala this link: http://www.sonic.net/~dgibbons/essay7.html

Okay, I gotcha now. But I wonder how come your was out of spec out of the box as new? Strange.

Has anyone found anywhere to get a convergence jig on Mylar? Would be handy as h^ll to have around just in case...

When I had a jig printed up last year @ my local FedEx/Kinko's, they told me that they no longer had mylar rolls that would work w/ their AutoCAD machines & that what vellum paper they had in stock was likely all they were going to have for the forseeable future.

Granted, this is one Kinko's, although could be the case chain-wide.

I'd suggest calling every print shop you can find within a reasonable distance from you in the phonebook/online. Ask if they do AutoCAD & if they can print on mylar with it.

Will say that vellum does work fine, but mylar would be best. Have attempted to contact the poster who supplied this thread w/ the jig .pdfs & claimed to have gotten his on mylar locally, but he (screen handle : cavery) seems to have disappeared from AVS.

Hey, I know this question is about a year old now and slightly off-topic, but I felt I should chime in quickly.

Whether or not you get the upscaled signal through the component inputs depends on the DVD player. The component connection itself is obviously capable of carrying an HD signal, even 1080p. But, some DVD players (such as mine) will only send the upscaled signal out through HDMI. Obviously, you need to check your DVD player's user manual and use the appropriate connection.


Another player-dependent thing would be whether or not the upscaling player in question does any better a job that the TV itself does.

Last January (2006), I bought a Sony NS75H & an HDMI cable. Although I did get the occasional "shifts" we F59-ers know so well, it worked fine overall.

After some time, I compared the Sony's HDMI feed to it's component. 480i via component (upped to 1080i by the F59 Virtual HD) vs. Sony 1080i via HDMI yielded nearly identical results.

Now, when I grabbed a Toshiba HDA2 this last November - slightly different story. It's HDMI upscaled DVD actually is (to me anyway) noticably better--if just slightly--than either of the above Sony options, as well as sending 480i DVD from Toshiba to Hitachi (componenet or HDMI).

I've seen at most half a dozen HDMI shifts with my A2 in the last 3 months, and I use it A LOT! So, that will leave me with an available component input for if/when I go Blu soon (BD player will likely be for BDs only - DVDs will go thru the Tosh & it's stellar upconversion).

As far as 1080i over component, there are some players that can be "hacked"--as well as some Chinese players that will send upscaled DVD over component. A search of the DVD player threads here (non-HDM) should come up with a few.

After

Don't forget the wingnuts and the silver screws.
I used flat black electrical tape to cover the white caulk.

Okay, I gotcha now. But I wonder how come your was out of spec out of the box as new? Strange.

Has anyone found anywhere to get a convergence jig on Mylar? Would be handy as h^ll to have around just in case...


Here's one source:
57F59 Screen Jig (http://www.partstore.com/PartSearch.aspx?PartNumber=H312273&x=24&y=11).

Not cheap though.

Another player-dependent thing would be whether or not the upscaling player in question does any better a job that the TV itself does.

Last January (2006), I bought a Sony NS75H & an HDMI cable. Although I did get the occasional "shifts" we F59-ers know so well, it worked fine overall.

After some time, I compared the Sony's HDMI feed to it's component. 480i via component (upped to 1080i by the F59 Virtual HD) vs. Sony 1080i via HDMI yielded nearly identical results.

Now, when I grabbed a Toshiba HDA2 this last November - slightly different story. It's HDMI upscaled DVD actually is (to me anyway) noticably better--if just slightly--than either of the above Sony options, as well as sending 480i DVD from Toshiba to Hitachi (componenet or HDMI).

I've seen at most half a dozen HDMI shifts with my A2 in the last 3 months, and I use it A LOT! So, that will leave me with an available component input for if/when I go Blu soon (BD player will likely be for BDs only - DVDs will go thru the Tosh & it's stellar upconversion).

As far as 1080i over component, there are some players that can be "hacked"--as well as some Chinese players that will send upscaled DVD over component. A search of the DVD player threads here (non-HDM) should come up with a few.
I would vote the Toshiba A2,A20, A3 or like models for a n upscaling DVD player. Not only do they do that they are also HD DVD. I had an LG that upscaled before I jumped to HD DVD. Man the Tosh's can upscale better than anything else and they can hook up to the internet via an ethernet connection. Not to mention the low price now.

Thanks to the link to the archived thread for the F500's, I modified a technique for adjusting the color. Give it a try. Standard warning: WRITE DOWN ALL SETTINGS BEFORE CHANGING ANYTHING.

Bring up the color bars of your choice (I've used AVIA and DVE with the same results).
In the user menu, set Color to 50, Tint to 0 and Temperature to Standard.
In the service menu, change COLORG to 00 (if you've changed it to 01).
Change RGBOUT (first item in TA1360 menu) to 03.
Scroll down to COLOR-STD and TINT-STD and alternate between them until the blue boxes are all the same color. Don't forget to press SELECT to save your final settings.
Back up to RGBOUT, change to 02 (green).
Alternate between GY-PH-CBCR and G/BGA-CBCR-STD to get as many of the green boxes as close to the same color as possible. SELECT.
Back to RGBOUT, change to 01 (red).
Alternate between RY-PH-CBCR and R/BGA-CBCR-STD to get as many of the red boxes as close to the same color as possible. SELECT.
Up to RGBOUT, change to 00 (unless you're particularly fond of red, green, or blue). SELECT.
Find COLORG and change it back to 01. (edit: as Mr. Bob suggests, leave it at 00 for a while and see what you think). SELECT.
Exit the service menu, pop in the disc of your choice, and let me know what you think.
Michael

Here's one source:
57F59 Screen Jig (http://www.partstore.com/PartSearch.aspx?PartNumber=H312273&x=24&y=11).

Not cheap though.

At least shipping is free.:)

Before my sharpie job

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/BeforeSharpie.jpg

After

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/AfterSharpie.jpg

Im getting ready to do this myself and while I'm at it, clean the lenses and mirror with Sprayway.

My question is, when you take the top of the TV off, does it throw off Convergence or require any fine tuning when you re-assemble the set? Just got done fine tuuning the picture and have it very tight. Hate to think I'll have to do it again.

Thanks for the feedback!

Im getting ready to do this myself and while I'm at it, clean the lenses and mirror with Sprayway.

My question is, when you take the top of the TV off, does it throw off Convergence or require any fine tuning when you re-assemble the set? Just got done fine tuuning the picture and have it very tight. Hate to think I'll have to do it again.

Thanks for the feedback!

It doesn't look off at all, but I can't help it and will adjust it once I'm all done anyway.

Here's one source:
57F59 Screen Jig (http://www.partstore.com/PartSearch.aspx?PartNumber=H312273&x=24&y=11).

Not cheap though.

Thanks, Lee. It's not cheap, but sometimes you have to pay for the correct tool.

Has anyone found anywhere to get a convergence jig on Mylar? Would be handy as h^ll to have around just in case....

Here's one source:
57F59 Screen Jig (http://www.partstore.com/PartSearch.aspx?PartNumber=H312273&x=24&y=11).

Not cheap though.

Thanks, Lee. It's not cheap, but sometimes you have to pay for the correct tool.


Ouch! If you gotta have "the real thing"....it'll cost ya!:eek:

Since you are asking, VivatHD, I'm assuming the .pdfs on this thread did not/are not gonna work for you?

I can say this.....I DL'ed the 51" jig to a CD & had it printed on vellum paper (translucent enough to work just fine, BTW----although mylar would be that much better) @ Kinko's for less than $20. A 57" would not be much more, I imagine--maybe $25, certainly under $30.

At that cost difference, almost as good seems the better option all around. While vellum can get wrinkled/bent, a new copy would be relatively cheap to have done up. Or have more than one printed up out of the gate, so you have a backup or 2.

If you can locate a print shop with mylar rolls that can be used w/ an AutoCAD, the higher cost of the materials would likely still be less than the cost of the "official" jig. If not locally, there could be someone online that offers such printing options. Even after shipping, I'm betting you would still spend less.

Go with whatever route you wish, obviously (& thanks for the link, Lee!). Just trying to save a bro some dough!

I can say this.....I DL'ed the 51" jig to a CD & had it printed on vellum paper (translucent enough to work just fine, BTW----although mylar would be that much better) @ Kinko's for less than $20. A 57" would not be much more, I imagine--maybe $25, certainly under $30.

I did my 57" for under $20 at Kinko's (before FedEx) on vellum. I recently redid the jig with thinner lines. Haven't reprinted it yet, but it's on my to-do list.
Hopefully, the file is attached here somewhere (looks like it's at the end).

BTW, this is before blacking out the inside:
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5152/img0820vg8.jpg


and this is after:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/139/p1000986vh2.jpg


Don't know if you "Sharpie" folks got similar results.
Michael

N00b convergence question,

I have the HDDVD DVE disc and using the convergence test, i see that my screen is about at the 5% line all around and the geometry looks good. Is this proper or is there too much overscan at 5%? Should i see a 0% or something?

I ask because i get a lot of cut off w/ PS3 games and even the DVE menu system itself is cut off on the left a good bit. Things like my HDDVD player's 'loading' icon which i presume should be evenly placed in the upper right hand corner, is smooshed all the way against the right edge of the screen.

What do you guys think? Thanks

I have the HDDVD DVE disc and using the convergence test, i see that my screen is about at the 5% line all around and the geometry looks good.

5% is about right. Getting it lower is a nightmare or expensive, depending on who does it (actually, could probably be both). Eliminating overscan is probably the only reason to get a fixed pixel display. Let's see if the gamers out there have any suggestions.

I hope I posted this in the right section. My tv is a 65f710 manufactured in June of 2005. I am currently having problems with some lines appearing upon turning the tv on. It use to be very sporatic but now is happening more frequently. I have a service call coming on saturday via Hhgreggs 5yr extended warranty. I wanted some advice from you guys as to what it could be. It happens whether the tv is turned on via hdmi or component. The first picture is with directv signal and the second picture is the hdmi cable is unplugged without a signal. I have never opened up the tv and never performed any tweaks. Thanks for the help and hope this forum is ok to post it in.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg213/awd96tsi/P1230039.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg213/awd96tsi/P1230043.jpg

Sorry for it being a little blurry i had the flash off with my crappy camera.

5% is about right. Getting it lower is a nightmare or expensive, depending on who does it (actually, could probably be both). Eliminating overscan is probably the only reason to get a fixed pixel display. Let's see if the gamers out there have any suggestions.

Mine sits at just a hair over 4%. Took a lot of work to get it there, though.

Anything lower is pretty much impossible on a set like this w/o using some sort of outboard video processor (like a Lumagen) that has adjustable overscan settings of it's own.

Even @ 4%, some stuff can get cut off. But anything out that far (in TV programming/movies at least) is inconsequential.

I only really notice it on someting like ABC HD broadcasts. On my brother-in-law's LCD, there is about 1/2 an inch btwn the "D" and the right edge of the screen. On my Hitachi, said "D" butts right up against the right side.

Don't feel I'm missing much. Some game HUD stuff, though, might be a issue.

It doesn't look off at all, but I can't help it and will adjust it once I'm all done anyway.

Thanks for the feedback. Can anyone else share their story about taking the top half of the set off to clean the mirror and or black out set? Was your picture off and need any sort of adjustment after re-attaching the top half of the set?

Thanks for the feedback. Can anyone else share their story about taking the top half of the set off to clean the mirror and or black out set? Was your picture off and need any sort of adjustment after re-attaching the top half of the set?

As far as the screen removal (all that really needs to come off for the jobs you mention), you might have some convergence touchups to do. That should be about it, though.

Another player-dependent thing would be whether or not the upscaling player in question does any better a job that the TV itself does.

As far as 1080i over component, there are some players that can be "hacked"--as well as some Chinese players that will send upscaled DVD over component. A search of the DVD player threads here (non-HDM) should come up with a few.

LiteOn LVD 2001, Bravo D1, Momitsu 880, all used the Sigma 8500 chipset, which allowed 1080i from component. Unfortunately the LiteOn also has green push, but green is not nearly as objectionable as red push, and its picture is definitely nice, esp. when your display is crisp enough to effortlessly show scanlines, as mine are. The 480p scanlines turn into windowslat effect on displays like mine, making SD via 1080i much more preferable.

The Samsung 841 can be hacked to do it, tho it doesn't come OOB that way. It also plays discrete analog DVD Audio and SACD out of RCAs, which makes it extra special when used with superb RCA patchcords, like Outlaw Audio puts out. A physicist friend of mine uses them on his Carver sys, and says the bang for the buck you get from Outlaw is unmatched in the industry -


Mr Bob

I did my 57" for under $20 at Kinko's (before FedEx) on vellum. I recently redid the jig with thinner lines. Haven't reprinted it yet, but it's on my to-do list.
Hopefully, the file is attached here somewhere (looks like it's at the end).

BTW, this is before blacking out the inside:
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5152/img0820vg8.jpg


and this is after:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/139/p1000986vh2.jpg


Don't know if you "Sharpie" folks got similar results.
Michael


I believe one shot is using flash on the cam while the other is not. Look at the windows in the background left. One the second one you can't even make them out, they are overmodulating so much.

As such if so, it is not a fair comparison, it's apples and oranges.


Mr Bob

N00b convergence question,

I have the HDDVD DVE disc and using the convergence test, i see that my screen is about at the 5% line all around and the geometry looks good. Is this proper or is there too much overscan at 5%? Should i see a 0% or something?

I ask because i get a lot of cut off w/ PS3 games and even the DVE menu system itself is cut off on the left a good bit. Things like my HDDVD player's 'loading' icon which i presume should be evenly placed in the upper right hand corner, is smooshed all the way against the right edge of the screen.

What do you guys think? Thanks

Have never compared DVE to AVIA, so can't say if they have the same % numbers of overscan. I know the original VE was useless for geometry at all, the circle was not a circle when the 16x9 borders were fully matched up correctly.

But all CRT RPTVs are - make that were - manufactured with overscan, to hide the flaws out there. Factory jigs will have the same amount.


Mr Bob

I believe one shot is using flash on the cam while the other is not. Look at the windows in the background left. One the second one you can't even make them out, they are overmodulating so much.

Actually, you make my point. They are both with a flash, the second one, even with the extra brightness, still has a nice dark screen. More light, less reflection in the set. And I still haven't broken anything (yet)!
Michael

Actually, you make my point. They are both with a flash, the second one, even with the extra brightness, still has a nice dark screen. More light, less reflection in the set. And I still haven't broken anything (yet)!
Michael

I don't think so. On the one there is a noticeable reflection from your flash, horizontally on your screen, having nothing to do with internal reflections. On the other one, that reflection from your screen is not there.

In one, the window is so garish that you can't even make it out, it's just a huge white blur. In the other, no problem at all making it out, with full details.

Only flash being there and on one and not there on the other, can do stuff like that. If it were just your internal reflections being less, the rest of the scene woulda stayed the same. And the rest of the scene is vastly different, between the 2 shots -


Mr Bob

I don't think so. On the one there is a noticeable reflection from your flash, horizontally on your screen, having nothing to do with internal reflections. On the other one, that reflection from your screen is not there.

In one, the window is so garish that you can't even make it out, it's just a huge white blur. In the other, no problem at all making it out, with full details.

Only flash being there and on one and not there on the other, can do stuff like that. If it were just your internal reflections being less, the rest of the scene woulda stayed the same. And the rest of the scene is vastly different, between the 2 shots -


Mr Bob

It looks to me like the camera metered on the TV in both photos and used a flash in the top photo but not the bottom photo. That would explain the longer exposure with clipped highlights in the windows and no reflection of the flash off the screen in the bottom picture.

To know you are getting a true comparison, you would need to have the lighting conditions in the room controlled and use manual mode on the camera to set the exposure.

Anyway, I don't doubt the original point of the photos, that using a black velvet/felt material blacks out the inside of the TV more effectively than a sharpie!

It looks to me like the camera metered on the TV in both photos and used a flash in the top photo but not the bottom photo. That would explain the longer exposure with clipped highlights in the windows and no reflection of the flash off the screen in the bottom picture.

To know you are getting a true comparison, you would need to have the lighting conditions in the room controlled and use manual mode on the camera to set the exposure.

Anyway, I don't doubt the original point of the photos, that using a black velvet/felt material blacks out the inside of the TV more effectively than a sharpie!

I don't doubt black material would work bettereither, but the photos don't show that at all. They actually show the exact opposite.

I don't doubt black material would work bettereither, but the photos don't show that at all. They actually show the exact opposite.

Well, I can't get good screen shots, either, so the tripod and camera are packed up. I give up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Michael

Well, I can't get good screen shots, either, so the tripod and camera are packed up. I give up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Michael

You mean you're not going to take out your black lining to do another before-after? :p

Have a good weekend.

Something I've noticed on HD content on my 51F59 is that when the HD content is focusing on a single object, like an interview with someone or the camera following a player on the field or court zoomed in to where that player fills majority of the screen-- the detail is super clear and sharp. But for scenes where the camera is zoomed out the detail almost looks like a cross between standard def and high.

I have contrast/brightness @ 30/56 for day viewing and 28/55 for night. I have YDTL in service menu @ 09.

No complaints on close in object scenes-- stunning clarity... during the playoffs when the camera was zoomed on him I could see the metallic flakes in the finish on Eli Manning's helmet!!... ...but would like to see more clarity in panoramic scenes.

Have only had HD for 1 month so maybe this is normal.

Using YbPbr component cables from the DVR to the tv. Tried a Belkin HDMI cable but the pic actually seemed better with the YbPbr cables so went back to them.

Something I've noticed on HD content on my 51F59 is that when the HD content is focusing on a single object, like an interview with someone or the camera following a player on the field or court zoomed in to where that player fills majority of the screen-- the detail is super clear and sharp. But for scenes where the camera is zoomed out the detail almost looks like a cross between standard def and high.

I have contrast/brightness @ 30/56 for day viewing and 28/55 for night. I have YDTL in service menu @ 09.

No complaints on close in object scenes-- stunning clarity... during the playoffs when the camera was zoomed on him I could see the metallic flakes in the finish on Eli Manning's helmet!!... ...but would like to see more clarity in panoramic scenes.

Have only had HD for 1 month so maybe this is normal.

Using YbPbr component cables from the DVR to the tv. Tried a Belkin HDMI cable but the pic actually seemed better with the YbPbr cables so went back to them.
Could be 'normal' but might involve other factors. Wide panoramic shots of crowds, for example, usually make the higher resolution of 1080i compared to 720p obvious. 1080i panoramic shots are generally noticeably crisper. So you have to determine whether the HD source is 720p or 1080i. Some apparent 'HD', like the current Australian Open on ESPN2-HD, is upconverted from non-HD (576i=>720p=>1080i: tennis for most CRT RPTVs). Movies, compared to most live or recorded video not involving 24p capture, generally have less effective resolution in part due to deliberate 'artistic' camera filtering.

HD closeups look super crisp because the optical magnification is enhancing resolution. Closeups of really fine details, like text on a page, easily distinguish between 1080i, 720p, or other potential resolution limitations: A cable STB and the cable head end, for example, might be limiting higher resolutions, although 7"-CRT RPTVs typically deliver maximum resolutions less than ~1400 lines horizontally. And HD program sources, excluding most test patterns, rarely approach that maximum.

Using HDNet's Saturday 6:30 am ET test patterns, this technique (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424), preferably DVRing the 10-min test patterns, lets you measure how much of HDNet's ~1920X1080 resolution-wedge lines can be resolved after cable/DBS and display processing. Gradually smaller text lines (see here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7359152&&#post7359152)) provide a rough gauge of resolution, with text line numbering approximating the resolution-wedge 'gray-out-point' number (see 'technique' link).

Unlike the ~1290 lines I measure (link above), as do many others, some within apparently smaller cable systems have reported resolving nearly full 1920X1080. Freeze-framing HDNet's patterns will likely halve vertical resolution (horizontal wedge lines), but not horizontal resolution (vertical lines), because DVRs typically then deliver one 540-line TV field (half-frame). Poorer focus and convergence of CRTs as well as dirty optics, or even poor contrast/brightness adjustments and too much room lighting, can lessen the crispness of panoramic views, too. -- John

I hope this is the right place for this question?
I have an Hitachi 51G500 TV. I want to get Direct-TV. I have a DVI connection. I was told by a salesman at Circuit City that all I would need is a DVI to HDMI cable. Then somebody said that my TV doesn't support HDCP. Right then I was lost. The question is: Given what you know, Can I get HD with my Hitachi TV? . . Thanks for your support.

I hope this is the right place for this question?
I have an Hitachi 51G500 TV. I want to get Direct-TV. I have a DVI connection. I was told by a salesman at Circuit City that all I would need is a DVI to HDMI cable. Then somebody said that my TV doesn't support HDCP. Right then I was lost. The question is: Given what you know, Can I get HD with my Hitachi TV? . . Thanks for your support.
You can with a YPbPr connection, and that might be simpler, and provide equal or even better PQ, than tinkering with DVI/HDMI conversions. I'm sure many here can pin down the HDCP/Hitachi part. -- John

Could be 'normal' but might involve other factors. Wide panoramic shots of crowds, for example, usually make the higher resolution of 1080i compared to 720p obvious. 1080i panoramic shots are generally noticeably crisper. So you have to determine whether the HD source is 720p or 1080i. Some HD, like the current Australian Open, is upconverted from non-HD (576i=>720p=>1080i: tennis for most CRT RPTVs). Movies, compared to most live or recorded video not involving 24p capture, generally have less effective resolution in part due to deliberate 'artistic' camera filtering.

HD closeups look super crisp because the optical magnification is enhancing resolution. Closeups of really fine details, like text on a page, easily distinguish between 1080i, 720p, or other potential resolution limitations: A cable STB and the cable head end, for example, might be limiting higher resolutions, although 7"-CRT RPTVs typically deliver maximum resolutions less than ~1400 lines horizontally. And HD program sources, but not test patterns, rarely approach that maximum.

Using HDNet's Saturday 6:30 am ET test patterns, this technique (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424), preferably DVRing the 10-min test patterns, lets you measure how much of HDNet's ~1920X1080 resolution-wedge lines can be resolved after cable/DBS and display processing. Gradually smaller text lines (see here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7359152&&#post7359152)) provide a rough gauge of resolution, with test-line numbering approximating the resolution-wedge 'gray-out-point' number (see 'technique' link).

Unlike the ~1290 lines I measure (link above), as do many others, some within apparently smaller cable systems have reported resolving nearly full 1920X1080. Freeze-framing HDNet's patterns will likely halve vertical resolution (horizontal wedge lines), but not horizontal resolution (vertical lines), because DVRs typically then deliver one 540-line TV field (half-frame). Poorer focus and convergence of CRTs as well as dirty optics, or even poor contrast/brightness adjustments and too much room lighting, can lessen the crispness of panoramic views, too. -- John

Awesome post there, John!

:)

472 pages??? Have never seen a thread that big before!

:p


Mr Bob

This is really off base but I wanted to chirp in. My inlaws are going with a Sharp 46 LCD set up. I went to the forum that covered tht set. Man I am so happy I do not have to deal with all those issues that come with the new technologies. That BANDING thing alone will drive you crazy. DEAD PIXELS....everyone says its not to bad on the threads. A dead spot on any set would bother me.

JUst want ed to say that. I am also pretty happy with my tweaks at this time.

I just cleaned the mirror and optics on my tv and all I can say is WOW! Even my wife can tell a difference. I cleaned it with sprayway soaking for 10 seconds sweeping in one direction with paper towels to get the big stuff off. When I was done I took my flash lite and shined it on the mirror and optics and noticed streaks so I took a barely moist towel and went over it again and no more streaks.

I just cleaned the mirror and optics on my tv and all I can say is WOW! Even my wife can tell a difference. I cleaned it with sprayway soaking for 10 seconds sweeping in one direction with paper towels to get the big stuff off. When I was done I took my flash lite and shined it on the mirror and optics and noticed streaks so I took a barely moist towel and went over it again and no more streaks.
Is there a time frame for that to be done. I have had my 51f59a for 14 months. The PQ is great and I dont notice anything wrong.

I just cleaned the mirror and optics on my tv and all I can say is WOW! Even my wife can tell a difference. I cleaned it with sprayway soaking for 10 seconds sweeping in one direction with paper towels to get the big stuff off. When I was done I took my flash lite and shined it on the mirror and optics and noticed streaks so I took a barely moist towel and went over it again and no more streaks.

I have often had to go over the surface again of the lenses. Just never RUB! Do exactly what you have done the first time over again, and it should be crystal clear the second time, which is a safer time since all the grit will be gone already. One careful swipe, another swipe in an adjoining area, possibly a third, you're done.

If there's ever a question, it's better to leave a little something on there than to be tempted to rub away. Everything is out of focus at that point of the light path, so isolated bare little somethings on there won't bother the pic at all.


Mr Bob

Is there a time frame for that to be done. I have had my 51f59a for 14 months. The PQ is great and I dont notice anything wrong.

I found that my 73" Mit needed it after just 10 months. Can't say. When still so young, using a photo or unused cosmetic brush might take off anything that's on there so far. It's the matting of dust that needs the wet method attention.

But after a year, I think that you'll find stuff still on there if you just do the brush thing.

I think once a year is nominal.


Mr Bob

Is there a time frame for that to be done. I have had my 51f59a for 14 months. The PQ is great and I dont notice anything wrong.

My tv is over a year old. I didn't think my picture looked that bad either. Is it worth doing it? All I have to say is even my wife saw a difference. It did not take that long for me maybe a hour or so depending how handy you are. PLEASE BE CAREFUL taking the tv apart and handling the screen and diving in to clean it there are three very important parts(the optics) you don't want to screw up in there.

On my screen there was a black kind of scratch looking thing about middle right 1/4 inch long and it seemed to be on the inside. Well to my relief when I cleaned it all it was was a little plastic shaving stuck to my screen. Shewww!

Oh yeah baby!!! Got me some Sprayaway! Dirt on the lenses and mirror, watch the f--k out!!

On my screen there was a black kind of scratch looking thing about middle right 1/4 inch long and it seemed to be on the inside. Well to my relief when I cleaned it all it was was a little plastic shaving stuck to my screen. Shewww!
The word Optics just scares the heck out of me. I've read up on the process in this thread and think I can do it. My problem is that I can never just stop. I will think I see just one more fleck of dust and try and get it. This extra attention usually results in disaster.

The word Optics just scares the heck out of me. I've read up on the process in this thread and think I can do it. My problem is that I can never just stop. I will think I see just one more fleck of dust and try and get it. This extra attention usually results in disaster.

You're absolutely right. It's like gambling - you GOT to know when to stop! It's not "quitting". It's simply stopping. At the right time and place. LIke anything in life, there's a right time and place to start, and a right time and place to stop. Until you master that, you'll have your hands full cleaning up your own messes.

S'why I never gamble, even when in Vegas at CES. Yup. Not one dime.

If you can't trust yourself to let go when you need to, get someone in there to do it for you.


Mr Bob

Cleaned some spots on my mirror where I bumped my oily bald head sharpieing the inside of the set, also cleaned the lenses. Didn't notice any improvement in black level or lens flaring, but I got a very nice sharpness boost. Just used Sprayaway and paper towels and was very careful and deliberate. Nice improvement. Next I'll have to clean the entire mirror.

Anyone try the Monster screen cleaner? I need to find some safe way to clean my screen!

Is there a way to peek inside the 51F59/57F59/65F59 series and glimpse the CRT lenses to eyeball whether or not they look like they need a light Sprayaway cleansing or not, without major disassembly (i.e. removal of screen)?

My set is approx 10 months old. It is my 2nd 51F59, the first one had to be replaced under warranty for geometry problem (posts about that are about this same time last year in tis thread).

Is there a way to peek inside the 51F59/57F59/65F59 series and glimpse the CRT lenses to eyeball whether or not they look like they need a light Sprayaway cleansing or not, without major disassembly (i.e. removal of screen)?

My set is approx 10 months old. It is my 2nd 51F59, the first one had to be replaced under warranty for geometry problem (posts about that are about this same time last year in tis thread).

Only way is screen removal. It's not difficult or time consuming at all. There are a dozen or so screws around the rear perimeter of the screen, and a few behind the panels just below the bottom front of the screen (near the back of the owners manual, see the 57" disassembly/assembly instructions for locations).

I cleaned my lenses after a year and they were dirty.

Is there a way to peek inside the 51F59/57F59/65F59 series and glimpse the CRT lenses to eyeball whether or not they look like they need a light Sprayaway cleansing or not, without major disassembly (i.e. removal of screen)?

My set is approx 10 months old. It is my 2nd 51F59, the first one had to be replaced under warranty for geometry problem (posts about that are about this same time last year in tis thread).

They REPLACED a CRT set for geometry problems???

Jeez! How lame!

:rolleyes:

Hit did pay me once to remedy something like that while it was under warranty, when 2 local warranty techs in a row could not get it right...

Same thing happened with a Mit that year also -


Whenever you remove the screen, remember the MF sensors, which are all usually wired directly to the screen. Some models anchor them on the chassis of the set, some on the screen itself.

If so, you might need a kitchen chair or 2 to support the screen frame on, when you remove it from the set itself. Or you can unplug the wiring from the little board inside the optical cavity -


Mr Bob

Whenever you remove the screen, remember the MF sensors, which are all usually wired directly to the screen. Some models anchor them on the chassis of the set, some on the screen itself.

If so, you might need a kitchen chair or 2 to support the screen frame on, when you remove it from the set itself. Or you can unplug the wiring from the little board inside the optical cavity -

Mr Bob

Unplug the MF connections here:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4083/magicfocus2bp6.jpg

The screen snaps in along the top, rests on supports on the bottom. Tedious, but not difficult. I'd replace the screws with Velcro if I could; plan to take everything apart again this week. If I can't get the color more even across the screen, I may break down and call Hitachi.
BTW, isn't Sprayway okay for the screen?

I'm afraid to take my screen off. Seems like the screen might miss fitting exactly the same way back onto the chassis and cause the mirror to be slightly out of the original position that was used to focus the CRT's onto it, i.e afraid I might create a slight optical focus problem by removing screen.

I'm afraid to take my screen off. Seems like the screen might miss fitting exactly the same way back onto the chassis and cause the mirror to be slightly out of the original position that was used to focus the CRT's onto it, i.e afraid I might create a slight optical focus problem by removing screen.

You can't. That's why there are 14 screws (and not Velcro, much to my chagrin. :)). The mirror stays on the back of the upper unit that is NOT removed. As we've said, it's a no-brainer, it's just tedious.
Of course, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your activities....

Okay, well then it looks like I'm going to fall victim again to my motto, which is "If it ain't broke, see if you can make it work BETTER."

So is there any particular brand of paper towel that is best to use with the SprayAway product?

Im having problems with the power on my set. When I turn it on the set does nothing for several seconds. It finally turns on like 5 seconds later then shuts itself off. It then turns itself back on.

BTW, isn't Sprayway okay for the screen?

I have never used Sprayway on the lenticular or the glarescreen. Needless to say, never use ANYTHING on the fresnel.

I would shy away from using anything - ever - on those plastic screens. They retain residue forever!


Mr Bob

I'm afraid to take my screen off. Seems like the screen might miss fitting exactly the same way back onto the chassis and cause the mirror to be slightly out of the original position that was used to focus the CRT's onto it, i.e afraid I might create a slight optical focus problem by removing screen.

Screens on CRT RPTV tech are mounted in ways that CANNOT be altered, if you put them back on the way they came off. That's how the factory does it. Just replicate their efforts.


Mr Bob

The screen snaps in along the top, rests on supports on the bottom. Tedious, but not difficult. I'd replace the screws with Velcro if I could; plan to take everything apart again this week. If I can't get the color more even across the screen, I may break down and call Hitachi.
BTW, isn't Sprayway okay for the screen?


I would never use Velcro - you might be adding a thickness that would alter your focusing and convergence.

Let it stay nice and tightly slotted and screwed in there, on your screen.


Mr Bob

Okay, well then it looks like I'm going to fall victim again to my motto, which is "If it ain't broke, see if you can make it work BETTER."

So is there any particular brand of paper towel that is best to use with the SprayAway product?

Not shop towels which contain lanolin, not super smooth towels designed to attract the average housewife.

Best towels to use are the most absorbent, with millions of gaps in there to house the gritty particulates, once the liquid has had a chance to reach down and suspend them in itself.


Mr Bob

Just an update on the F59 shifting thing......

As I mentioned in the thread dedicated to the subject, I recently updated my Toshiba HD A2 HD DVD player to the current 2.8 FW.

According to Toshiba, 2.8 addresses, among other things, certain HDMI "handshake" issues. Since the update, I have had ZERO HDMI shifts. Before 2.8, said shifts were infrequent, but would have happened at least once by now. The A2 gets fired up almost daily & in the last week+ that I've been running the 2.8 FW, I have had not one HDMI image shift at all.

Did Toshiba "fix it" at least in the case of the A2 & it's ability to get along with the F59? Who knows. If/when a shift ever occurs, I'll let you all know here & elsewhere.

However, since I happened to score a Wii this last week....it may be a while. That little box is damn addictive!

Even @ 480i/p resolution, the Wii does look fabulous on the F59 (I assume Virtual HD is doing it's job 'cause the images are very nice).

I would never use Velcro - you might be adding a thickness that would alter your focusing and convergence.

Let it stay nice and tightly slotted and screwed in there, on your screen.


Mr Bob

That was a joke, my friend. Don't have a tongue-in-cheek emoticon and I do get tired of smilies. Actually, this one's okay: ;)

I've been having a minor issue with my 51F59. Lately the convergence has to be adjusted almost daily around the edges. It's really not that noticeable. To give you an example, CNN has a ticker on the bottom. As the text scrolls toward the edge, the colors separate slightly. In other words, there's a red halo above, or below the text (always seems to be the red). Another example is my Toshiba HD-DVD player. When you boot it up, there's a little "busy" circle in the top-right corner. Many times the red is shifted to one side (usually the bottom). Also, the picture blurs slightly toward the edges. I understand that may be normal, but I don't think it has been this way when the TV was new.

This sounds like a case of adjusting the TV and/or doing some cleaning. The TV was purchased December 2006. I had back panel open some months ago when we had one of the boards replaced, and I carefully brushed some of the dust off the lenses, which are accessible through the back. I could see the mirror, but I don't think it possible to get a good cleaning from that angle.

But anyways, what would explain the convergence issues? Again, this is more of an annoyance. What can be done?

Thanks! :)

I've been having a minor issue with my 51F59. Lately the convergence has to be adjusted almost daily around the edges. It's really not that noticeable. To give you an example, CNN has a ticker on the bottom. As the text scrolls toward the edge, the colors separate slightly. In other words, there's a red halo above, or below the text (always seems to be the red). Another example is my Toshiba HD-DVD player. When you boot it up, there's a little "busy" circle in the top-right corner. Many times the red is shifted to one side (usually the bottom). Also, the picture blurs slightly toward the edges. I understand that may be normal, but I don't think it has been this way when the TV was new.

This sounds like a case of adjusting the TV and/or doing some cleaning. The TV was purchased December 2006. I had back panel open some months ago when we had one of the boards replaced, and I carefully brushed some of the dust off the lenses, which are accessible through the back. I could see the mirror, but I don't think it possible to get a good cleaning from that angle.

But anyways, what would explain the convergence issues? Again, this is more of an annoyance. What can be done?

Thanks! :)

The convergence issues you mention----do you see them when the set is first turned on? And do they continue as the set is powered up for more than an hour or so?

There will be some convergence errors when first turning on the TV. The set & the conv. ICs do need to "warm up" a bit upon power up. This is why Hitachi recommended waiting 15-20 minutes before activating Magic Focus (although 30-60 minutes is generally preferrable). Conv. - esp. around the screen edges--will be off a bit when you first turn the set on after sitting off all night. As time passes & everything warms up, those errors should correct.

The Toshiba "busy circle" you mention---if I kick on the A2 right after turning the TV on....yes, slight red conv. error on it. If I fire up the A2 after the set has been on for a while? Convergence is solid.

As to the blurring around the edges, some focus adjustments/tweaks may be in order. In my case, applying Bob's Scheimpfuge mod (adding small washers to some of the lens attachment points--in my case, the red lens) led to much tighter focus screenwide. Had some blurry reds on the edges that would just not dial out until I did this particular mod. Now, everything is very tight screen-wide.

Just an update on the F59 shifting thing......

As I mentioned in the thread dedicated to the subject, I recently updated my Toshiba HD A2 HD DVD player to the current 2.8 FW.

According to Toshiba, 2.8 addresses, among other things, certain HDMI "handshake" issues. Since the update, I have had ZERO HDMI shifts. Before 2.8, said shifts were infrequent, but would have happened at least once by now. The A2 gets fired up almost daily & in the last week+ that I've been running the 2.8 FW, I have had not one HDMI image shift at all.

Did Toshiba "fix it" at least in the case of the A2 & it's ability to get along with the F59? Who knows. If/when a shift ever occurs, I'll let you all know here & elsewhere.

However, since I happened to score a Wii this last week....it may be a while. That little box is damn addictive!

Even @ 480i/p resolution, the Wii does look fabulous on the F59 (I assume Virtual HD is doing it's job 'cause the images are very nice).

Thanks, I'll try that too. I've skipped the last couple firmware upgrades for my A2 since I've never had any playback issues with any discs and I'm afraid of adding some with new janky firmwares.

The weird thing is, with my A2, I really only get the image shifts when watching HD DVDs, I can't remember it happening with SD discs really. Sometimes with HD I get 3-4 shifts an hour.

My PS3 is the worst though, almost guaranteed to get shifts, especially playing Rock Band. :mad: Tough to play guitar when the freakin picture moves around on you.

Thanks, I'll try that too. I've skipped the last couple firmware upgrades for my A2 since I've never had any playback issues with any discs and I'm afraid of adding some with new janky firmwares.

The weird thing is, with my A2, I really only get the image shifts when watching HD DVDs, I can't remember it happening with SD discs really. Sometimes with HD I get 3-4 shifts an hour.

My PS3 is the worst though, almost guaranteed to get shifts, especially playing Rock Band. :mad: Tough to play guitar when the freakin picture moves around on you.

I've updated my A2 twice since getting it back in Nov. Came w/ 2.5, then updated to 2.7 via the ISO image download.

Had an issue w/ BOURNE ULTIMATUM playback (the 408.....error code) that others have had. Did 2.8 via direct Internet connection. Worked great.

Neither FW update caused anything negative for me. I'd suggest at least doing 2.8 now. When I did 2.8 via Internet hookup, I also played around w/ some web features on a few discs. Cool stuff. Need to get a wireless router going in the living room, so I can have the A2, Wii & D* HD DVR (for OnDemand) hooked up to the Web.

Since then, BU--and every other HDDVD/Combo I've tossed into it plays flawlessly. And no shifts--so far--with HD or SD DVDs.

And ROCK BAND is coming for the Wii soon, too! Damn little gamebox is gonna cut into my movie watching!! At least it runs component, so no shift worries there.

Need to get a wireless router going in the living room, so I can have the A2, Wii & D* HD DVR (for OnDemand) hooked up to the Web.

Mentioned this on the Toshiba thread, but probably worth repeating: I'm using one of the systems (Actiontec MegaPlug) that plugs into the electrical outlets to send data through house wiring. Works with the A2 and with my iBook, and it's a lot faster than the wireless dongle I had been using. There was a $20 rebate at the time, too. Might be easier for you.

The convergence issues you mention----do you see them when the set is first turned on? And do they continue as the set is powered up for more than an hour or so?

There will be some convergence errors when first turning on the TV. The set & the conv. ICs do need to "warm up" a bit upon power up. This is why Hitachi recommended waiting 15-20 minutes before activating Magic Focus (although 30-60 minutes is generally preferrable). Conv. - esp. around the screen edges--will be off a bit when you first turn the set on after sitting off all night. As time passes & everything warms up, those errors should correct.

The Toshiba "busy circle" you mention---if I kick on the A2 right after turning the TV on....yes, slight red conv. error on it. If I fire up the A2 after the set has been on for a while? Convergence is solid.

As to the blurring around the edges, some focus adjustments/tweaks may be in order. In my case, applying Bob's Scheimpfuge mod (adding small washers to some of the lens attachment points--in my case, the red lens) led to much tighter focus screenwide. Had some blurry reds on the edges that would just not dial out until I did this particular mod. Now, everything is very tight screen-wide.
It gets a little better after some warm-up, but still visible. I'll go ahead and do some cleaning and wait to do anything drastic until I get my hands on the HD version of DVE from Netflix (takes ages).

Thanks! :)

Mentioned this on the Toshiba thread, but probably worth repeating: I'm using one of the systems (Actiontec MegaPlug) that plugs into the electrical outlets to send data through house wiring. Works with the A2 and with my iBook, and it's a lot faster than the wireless dongle I had been using. There was a $20 rebate at the time, too. Might be easier for you.

So this will work w/ multiple stuff? In my case, I'd like 3 different components HU'd to the Web at once- the A2, the Wii & the DirecTv DVR.

Do these work as a "router"--as in multiple Ethernet outs or would I have to either have 3 separate AC outlets going (or swap out the Ethernet cable to the component I wish to use at the time)?

It gets a little better after some warm-up, but still visible. I'll go ahead and do some cleaning and wait to do anything drastic until I get my hands on the HD version of DVE from Netflix (takes ages).

Thanks! :)

If it seems the Scheimpfluge (washer) mod will benefit you, here's a link to Mr Bob's how-to from Keohi:


http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/scheimpfluge.html

So this will work w/ multiple stuff? In my case, I'd like 3 different components HU'd to the Web at once- the A2, the Wii & the DirecTv DVR.

Do these work as a "router"--as in multiple Ethernet outs or would I have to either have 3 separate AC outlets going (or swap out the Ethernet cable to the component I wish to use at the time)?

I'll let you know Wednesday. I have an extra router lying around, so I'll hook it up the the "receive" end and see if my A2 and iBook can work at the same time. Don't see why not, but don't want you going out on a limb without being sure. Stay tuned.
Michael

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=293&parent=0

So this will work w/ multiple stuff? In my case, I'd like 3 different components HU'd to the Web at once- the A2, the Wii & the DirecTv DVR.

Do these work as a "router"--as in multiple Ethernet outs or would I have to either have 3 separate AC outlets going (or swap out the Ethernet cable to the component I wish to use at the time)?

Apparently not. At least I couldn't get it to work with the TV and my iBook. Or either individually (through the router).
Now I'm no expert at these things, so don't give up hope, but just putting another router on the other end doesn't seem to work. Sorry. You would have to move the cable from one device to another.
No, doesn't make sense, but maybe someone else will have an explanation.
Michael

Apparently not. At least I couldn't get it to work with the TV and my iBook. Or either individually (through the router).
Now I'm no expert at these things, so don't give up hope, but just putting another router on the other end doesn't seem to work. Sorry. You would have to move the cable from one device to another.
No, doesn't make sense, but maybe someone else will have an explanation.
Michael

That's the dilema.

I'm considering an unfortunately pricier option in going with a wireless router/bridge-type setup. Not real savvy with this stuff, either, Michael.

Believe that I've seen wireless routers that will also act as a "bridge". Basically, a wireless router iin the office next to the computer (which will be hard-wired via Ethernet), then a 2nd in the living room, feeding up to 3 components (Wii, A2, DVR).

Not sure how this will work either, but I'd really like to have all 3 of these things doing what they do via their Web-based features (A2--HD DVD online goodies, Wii--similar online stuff, esp the Virtual Console & the DVR for D* OnDemand).

May have to see if one of those Geek Squad dudes @ BestBuy really know what they are talking about.

That's the dilema.

I'm considering an unfortunately pricier option in going with a wireless router/bridge-type setup. Not real savvy with this stuff, either, Michael.

Believe that I've seen wireless routers that will also act as a "bridge". Basically, a wireless router iin the office next to the computer (which will be hard-wired via Ethernet), then a 2nd in the living room, feeding up to 3 components (Wii, A2, DVR).

Not sure how this will work either, but I'd really like to have all 3 of these things doing what they do via their Web-based features (A2--HD DVD online goodies, Wii--similar online stuff, esp the Virtual Console & the DVR for D* OnDemand).

May have to see if one of those Geek Squad dudes @ BestBuy really know what they are talking about.

This should do the trick...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833129169

http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?event=viewProduct&cid=5&scid=117&localeCode=EN%5FUSA&pid=1635

I already have a similar device that works on Wireless G and it's fast and reliable enough for Xbox live.

You will need a wireless router, preferably using the "Wireless N" protocol, hooked up to your cable/DSL modem (in your office?). The ethernet client device linked to above will connect up to four devices via their ethernet ports to your wireless network at a location away from your router (i.e. home theater room).

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I have set up this type of stuff a few times for myself and family.

hi i plan on using this tv "57 inch version"

for gaming until i get my lcd tv in 2 months.

what can i do to prevent burn in? and is it comepltely avoidable? we have had this tv for 1 year as of janurARY AND NO BURN IN SO FAR.

im getting a xbox 360 really soo nand will be hooking it up over HDMI.

so all the advice avaiable thank u

hi i plan on using this tv "57 inch version"

for gaming until i get my lcd tv in 2 months.

what can i do to prevent burn in? and is it comepltely avoidable? we have had this tv for 1 year as of janurARY AND NO BURN IN SO FAR.

im getting a xbox 360 really soo nand will be hooking it up over HDMI.

so all the advice avaiable thank u

There's a lot of info about preventing burn-in throughout these forums. What it essentially comes down to is proper TV calibration and a safely low contrast setting. You might want to avoid gaming and using the standard 4:3 aspect ratio in the first 100 hours of TV operation also, I believe, as difficult as that might be with a new 360. I like to run some full screen video for at least 15 minutes or so after gaming or watching 4:3 standard material.

hi i plan on using this tv "57 inch version"

for gaming until i get my lcd tv in 2 months.

what can i do to prevent burn in? and is it comepltely avoidable? we have had this tv for 1 year as of janurARY AND NO BURN IN SO FAR.

im getting a xbox 360 really soo nand will be hooking it up over HDMI.

so all the advice avaiable thank u

I play the same games about 20+ hours a week since I bought my tv. I have had my tv over a year and I have had no burn in at all. The games are Halo 2,3 and Call of Duty 4(over the past year) all with a lot of HUD,ammo,life displays. I also watch alot of HD movies and over the air HD very little 4:3 stuff. Settings are basic on this forum just a little brighter but don't go to much brighter or you will get in that burn in risc.
The 360 just looks amazing on this tv and no lag(obviously).

I play the same games about 20+ hours a week since I bought my tv. I have had my tv over a year and I have had no burn in at all. The games are Halo 2,3 and Call of Duty 4(over the past year) all with a lot of HUD,ammo,life displays. I also watch alot of HD movies and over the air HD very little 4:3 stuff. Settings are basic on this forum just a little brighter but don't go to much brighter or you will get in that burn in risc.
The 360 just looks amazing on this tv and no lag(obviously).

thanks for the responses!

could you tell me the settings you have for the birghtness/cotrast? and do u play it on 1080i?

i plan on using the hdmi big difference between componet?

thanks for the responses!

could you tell me the settings you have for the birghtness/cotrast? and do u play it on 1080i?

i plan on using the hdmi big difference between componet?

There should be no difference between component and HDMI for the 360 while gaming. I heard somewhere that the 360 will only play HD-DVDs at 720p or 1080i through the HDMI output due to HDCP, but I have not verified this. The games themselves will play at the same resolution whether you use HDMI or component. The only reason to use HDMI is for the HDCP required for Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and some cable boxes. I guess it could be better for a long cable run than the analog component signal, possibly.

I would just save my cash and use the component cables included with the 360 for gaming. I'm using the component cables to send 1080i to my 51F59 and it looks great for both the games and downloaded video.

Can anyone advise me or point me in the direction of some info. on why I can not get my Hitachi's sound to come out of my stereo while using the HDMI cable?

thanks for the responses!

could you tell me the settings you have for the birghtness/cotrast? and do u play it on 1080i?

i plan on using the hdmi big difference between componet?

If you check the 1st page of this very thread, you will find the "F59 DIY Guide" which contains the most popular service menu tweaks as well as suggested video settings.

Basically, if you can keep Contrast below 50 (mine rides @ around 35 for Day, 28 for night) and don't leave static images on screen for hours on end every day, you should be fine. If you spend a lot of time gaming, I recommend taking a break occasionally & display some full, moving 16x9 video (an HD channel or DVD or even stretched SD stuff) while the game is stopped/paused/you go to the bathroom/etc.

The 51F59A is the 2nd Hitachi CRT RP HDTV I have owned. The 1st one (43UWX10B) that I got back in 2001 did end up w/ mild burn-in from 4:3 black sidebars. This was before I had a clue about proper video settings. Those older Hitachis had a "Perfect Picture" setting that used a sensor to measure ambient light in the room, adjusting video settings automatically as the light changed. However, that setting also kept contrast maxed out (never got lower than 70 or so) & manual adjustment was impossible. It took roughly 5 years for noticable burn-in to happen on that set, even in "torch mode".

I recommend that any SD/4:3 video be displayed either w/ the F59-generated gray pillarbox bars or stretched (if you can stomach that). My D* DVR does it's own gray sidebars for SD when it's set to output only 1080i for all signals, but there is occasionally a small strip of black btwn them & the image, so for those I will often use the D* stretch mode (which is rather tolerable, actually).

Check the DIY Guide I mentioned on page 1, and use the video settings as a guide. Your "perfect" levels will vary, as every TV (even 2 of the same make/model) & viewing environment do differ. The service menu tweaks listed in this guide are also recommened.

As to the HDMI issue, if you do wish to go that route make sure you have applied the HDMI fix in the service menu. Instructions can be found back on the 2nd page of this thread. I posted the actual Hitachi HDMI "fix" info back in Feb of last year. Said fix tackles the major HDMI handshake issues these sets had out of the factory, but does not fix the occasional horizontal image shift (entire image may shift to the left momentarily, then re-center a few seconds later). Hitachi claims to be working on this, so it might get fixed down the road.

Some experience shifting more than others. For me, its always been very infrequent overall. Used to use a Sony upconverting DVD player via HDMI & got at most 1 shift during DVD playback (sometimes none-never more than once per disc). Tried my D* HD DVR & got them more often. Since Nov, I have used a Toshiba HD A2 HD DVD player via HDMI. Up until recently, the shifting was similar to when the Sony DVD player was being used. Since updating the A2 w/ it's current 2.8 FW, I have had no shifts at all (yet---but I use the A2 a lot, so one should have occured by now). Again, your experiences may vary.

Component will give you equal HD PQ on the F59, so if you wish to avoid any potential HDMI issue, go component. As to the XBOX360, I'm not super-familiar w/ the ins-n-outs of the 360, but if it has a 1080i output option, use it. As to the HD DVD add-on, I don't see why it wouldn't send HD DVD material in HD resoulution via component (all SA HD DVD players can & do). The use of HDMI is only required on SA players (HD DVD & BD alike) in order to utilize the upconversion for std DVDs (SD DVDs max out @ 480p via component). Again, I'm not real 360-savvy....am becomming Wii-savvy, though!

Hope this helps.

Can anyone advise me or point me in the direction of some info. on why I can not get my Hitachi's sound to come out of my stereo while using the HDMI cable?

How are you connected & what is connected to your set?

I run my HD A2 via HDMI to my F59. The HDMI sends the video (obviously) as well as audio to the internal speakers (which are usually off). From the A2, I go optical to my AV receiver, as my receiver lacks HDMI.

Are you trying to use the F59 optical out? If so, you should know that it only woks with OTA signals coming into the set's coaxial (antenna) input. The optical out on the F59 allows you to send the digital audio from local HD/digital OTA signals coming in from your antenna to an AV receiver. It does not function for any other use.

Whatever you are connecting via HDMI to your F59, you will have to also connect that particular component's audio outs (digital or analog) to your stereo/AV receiver.

If your receiver is HDMI capable, you could go from the component in question via HDMI to the receiver, than HDMI out from receiver to F59 for video.

Thanks for responding.

I have an HDMI cable connecting my DVD player to my Hitatchi. I have tried running audio jacks from the TV to the receiver but I am getting no sound through my speakers. I am only getting sound from the Hitatchi speakers.

I think I recall having to do something through the Hitachi menu screen to get sound using the HDMI cable. I am having trouble remembering.

Thanks for responding.

I have an HDMI cable connecting my DVD player to my Hitatchi. I have tried running audio jacks from the TV to the receiver but I am getting no sound through my speakers. I am only getting sound from the Hitatchi speakers.

I think I recall having to do something through the Hitachi menu screen to get sound using the HDMI cable. I am having trouble remembering.

Sound via HDMI to the F59 is automatic. No need to change anything in the Audio menu. Unless you plan to use the F59 speakers, I'd just set them to OFF in the Audio menu & let your sound systme handle audio.

Use the HDMI for video (+ F59 speakers if you so desire). You cannot send the audio coming thru the HDMI from the F59 to the receiver. You will have to use the audio outs from your DVD player (optical/coax digital for actual digital/surround--l/r analog RCA for 2 channel, if that's all you got) directly to the receiver.

jwebb...thanks again.

So the only way to run the Hitachi through my stereo is to use component cables instead of the HDMI cable?

I have never tried to use the component cables before. Is the picture considerably different?

jwebb...thanks again.

So the only way to run the Hitachi through my stereo is to use component cables instead of the HDMI cable?

I have never tried to use the component cables before. Is the picture considerably different?

HDMI contains the audio to your TV, but you don't have to use it. Digital audio from your source to your AV receiver will work whether you use HDMI or not at your set.

Component delivers a fantastic pic to your TV. I use nothing else. I have heard that HDMI can deliver better OP from your STB, and of course is essential for today's upconverting DVDPs. Haven't tried that yet, am fantastically happy with my component conns for now.


Mr Bob

I did the service menu tweak that lowers the brightness and contrast of the user convergence grid - man was that a huge help! I got the 117pt convergence dialed in tighter than ever before last night, and am very pleased with the results.

But I seem to recall something about using DCAM mode to store your convergence settings so they become the new defaults, or something? The idea was to overwrite the "Magic Focus" defaults so that if somebody comes along and hits Magic Focus, you don't lose all your painstaking convergence work.

How do you do that? Please don't give me the obligatory smartass "read the f*cking thread" replies - I would love to but there's over 1400 posts here. :)

thanks! but the DIY guide lin kis dead

I did the service menu tweak that lowers the brightness and contrast of the user convergence grid - man was that a huge help! I got the 117pt convergence dialed in tighter than ever before last night, and am very pleased with the results.

But I seem to recall something about using DCAM mode to store your convergence settings so they become the new defaults, or something? The idea was to overwrite the "Magic Focus" defaults so that if somebody comes along and hits Magic Focus, you don't lose all your painstaking convergence work.

How do you do that? Please don't give me the obligatory smartass "read the f*cking thread" replies - I would love to but there's over 1400 posts here. :)

OK...how about the smartass "read THIS f*cking post" LINK!:D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9521684#post9521684

Lee Bailey's page 1 post from this thread has "the essentials". DCAM how-tos, how to enter the service menu + downloadable DIY Guides, a 2003 Hitachi "Pocket Convergence" Service Guide...

All the goodies are there.

As to using the MF 117pt for convergence adjustments, once the grid levels are dialed down, it'll do you just fine. The adjustments are stored in memory.

If believe that if you leave the MF menu set at "117 point manual", if someone hits the front panel or remote MF button, it'll default to that--not the auto MF.

As to using the DCAM method, you would want to go that route for:

1. If you altered your set's overscan or geometry had been hosed for some other reason--which requires tweaking green (not possible w/ MF).

2. If you were either REALLY anal about it, or simply wished to tweak convergence while actual video was displayed on screen (DCAM allows ext. video on screen - w or w/o the DCAM grid overlayed - while making red/blue/green adjustments. Before we figured out the way to reign in the DCAM grid intensity, it was not uncommon to use the much dimmer 50 IRE grids on AVIA on screen for good convergence alignment.

3. Some other service-level DCAM adjustments need to be done (something you most likely will NEVER need/want to do).

thanks! but the DIY guide lin kis dead

jesusplay & mbaxter----and anyone else interested.....


If you want a copy of this DIY Guide, PM me here. Send along an email address & I'll shoot you a copy.

Lee Bailey, if you are out there...your link is dead!!:eek:

HDMI contains the audio to your TV, but you don't have to use it. Digital audio from your source to your AV receiver will work whether you use HDMI or not at your set.

Component delivers a fantastic pic to your TV. I use nothing else. I have heard that HDMI can deliver better OP from your STB, and of course is essential for today's upconverting DVDPs. Haven't tried that yet, am fantastically happy with my component conns for now.


Mr Bob

Yeah...what Bob said.;)

Just use the HDMI from DVD to the TV, whichever audio out (analog or digital) your receiver accepts from DVD to that. Or component video to TV, same choice of audio as previously mentioned.

Not that you'd want to, but I know on the A2--and likely most DVD players with both types of HD outs-if you HU component video & HDMI simultaneously, you'll get no pic via component.

Been a while. Some screens from the Ninja Gaiden2 Trailer

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2320.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2305.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2312.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2313.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2318.jpg

thanks for the responses!

could you tell me the settings you have for the birghtness/cotrast? and do u play it on 1080i?

i plan on using the hdmi big difference between componet?

My contrast is 45 brightness is 50 but set it at what looks good to you. I have the 360 at 1080i HDMI. The 360 will output all video(games,HD DVD,DVD) at what you set it at 720p or 1080i even if it is ,for example, native 720p and you have it set at 1080i it will output at 1080i. The 360 will upconvert DVD only via HDMI it will not upconvert over component it will be 480p. Picture quality between HDMI and component? I did not see a difference only thing is you can upconvert DVD via HDMI.

There should be no difference between component and HDMI for the 360 while gaming. I heard somewhere that the 360 will only play HD-DVDs at 720p or 1080i through the HDMI output due to HDCP, but I have not verified this. The games themselves will play at the same resolution whether you use HDMI or component. The only reason to use HDMI is for the HDCP required for Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and some cable boxes. I guess it could be better for a long cable run than the analog component signal, possibly.

I would just save my cash and use the component cables included with the 360 for gaming. I'm using the component cables to send 1080i to my 51F59 and it looks great for both the games and downloaded video.
That is a PS3 problem.

Lee Bailey, if you are out there...your link is dead!!:eek:

The link is dead; long live the link.
Here you go:

The link is dead; long live the link.
Here you go:

Excellent.

The digital copy I had was a RTF file & was to pick to attach.

Thanks!

That is a PS3 problem.

Thanks for clarifying the 360 HDMI/component situation. Basically, the only advantage to HDMI for the 360 is the ability to upconvert DVD from 480p to 720p or 1080i. The 360's DVD drive is so noisy I'm not sure why anyone would use it as a DVD player anyway.

Excellent.

The digital copy I had was a RTF file & was to pick to attach.

Thanks!

It's a Mac; it can do anything. :D

HItachi has called me several times on the HDMI handshake issues. Seems they are trying to get it done but dont know what is the problem. I called them a long time ago on the old "color fix" problem with the shifting. With this thread I fixed that but they still call about the shifting. Anyway I guess their working on it. I figured they wouldn't even care about us old CRT dinosaurs!

My SD shifts more than HD or maybe the gray bars make me notice it more. Maybe 4-6 times in 2hours worth. My HD A20 will shift once in a while but not much. I have the latest firmware installed.

VivatHD...let me know how the cleaning goes. I'm going to give it a try after you report back on how it went.

Thanks for clarifying the 360 HDMI/component situation. Basically, the only advantage to HDMI for the 360 is the ability to upconvert DVD from 480p to 720p or 1080i. The 360's DVD drive is so noisy I'm not sure why anyone would use it as a DVD player anyway.

Upconverts to 1080p also.

HItachi has called me several times on the HDMI handshake issues. Seems they are trying to get it done but dont know what is the problem. I called them a long time ago on the old "color fix" problem with the shifting. With this thread I fixed that but they still call about the shifting. Anyway I guess their working on it. I figured they wouldn't even care about us old CRT dinosaurs!

My SD shifts more than HD or maybe the gray bars make me notice it more. Maybe 4-6 times in 2hours worth. My HD A20 will shift once in a while but not much. I have the latest firmware installed.

VivatHD...let me know how the cleaning goes. I'm going to give it a try after you report back on how it went.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the HDMI shift issue--I know I'm not, especially on a discontinued model, and 18 months after they started trying to fix it.

Optics cleaning is very easy--do a search, there's a thread with info. I did mine after a year and the lenses were pretty dirty. Takes around a half hour.

I just wanted to say............. my TV looks so f^*)@%G good! I'm loving it!!

Hey if you have HDnet or HDtheater, can't remember which one carries it, but next time they air their show that covers festivals from different cultures around the globe, tune in. Watched one last month about Bolivia, and damn, I've never seen such clarity and vivid colors. It makes a huge difference when the show is shot with the best hi-res cameras, etc., I think.

I'm usually not that big on the artsy fartsy stuff, but it does show off what these HD tv's can do.

Hey if you have HDnet or HDtheater, can't remember which one carries it, but next time they air their show that covers festivals from different cultures around the globe, tune in. Watched one last month about Bolivia, and damn, I've never seen such clarity and vivid colors. It makes a huge difference when the show is shot with the best hi-res cameras, etc., I think.

I'm usually not that big on the artsy fartsy stuff, but it does show off what these HD tv's can do.
I agree! The quality of HD varies dramatically from one show to the next. HD Theater is among the best. Sadly, all HD channels suffer from compression, which--in some cases--is horrid!

We need to get with the times and update our infrastructure to use fiber optics. That would do away with some of the bottlenecks. Still waiting for FIOS to make into our neck of the woods (wishful thinking, really :().

While we slept in this morning my 2 and 5 year old grand sons washed windows around the house. Unfortunately they used Tilex on the screen of my 57F59.

I don't think the screen itself is damaged but there is liquid between the fresnel and lenticular lenses. Can I just remove them and mop up the liquid? Any special considerations in cleaning up the mess?

Mr Bob,

Is your post#702 before and after pics of lens cleaning or is it something more detailed. If its lens cleaning then that was impressive.

Well, I removed the screen, and the Tilex has left residue on the lenticular and fresnel lenses.

Any suggestions as to what to use to help remove it - water?

Hi Everyone,
I was one of the first and largest proponents of the Hitachi F59A series, I was the one that put together the DIY guide floating around. But this will be my last post in the thread... Hitachi has bought back my 57F59A and I now have a low-end 2008 model 1080p Mits 65" DLP from Costco (not as many settings as the higher models)... I would get the mid-model next time.

While I did not want to do this my TV experience has been a nightmare with things breaking and the HDMI port going out twice within a year.

My Mits does not have the deep blacks that the F59 had and the colors on the F59 are more accurate (after all the tweaks) but the Mit is still very good. I see no rainbows and the fan/wheel is almost silent - To hear it there cannot be any sound in the room and I must be behind the TV -- and I'm very sensitive to this stuff.

I also found that the DLP is clearer... it is especially noticeable with text from my XBOX Media Center. Convergence on the F59 was tweaked but never as clean as the DLP.

Anyway... not bashing the F59 as I did love it for the year or so it actually worked, of the 1.5 yrs I owned it. I just wanted to tell people that if they were concerned about getting a DLP due to a lower quality experience... I can tell you definitely not to worry.

All is well on the home front.

After removing the screen on my 57F59 I carefully removed the tape from the bottom of the lenses (holds the lenticular to the fresnel) and placed them on my bed opened up like a clam shell. The bed had full sun coming in for good vision of the residue.

I sprayed water from an atomizer on the Tilex residue, let it set for 15-20 seconds then wiped it off (with an old cotton pillow case) in the direction of the groves on the lenses. After going over it 3 or 4 times using three pillowcases to assure I had a clean cloth, I could no longer see any residue or staining on the fresnel.

I put the lenses back together, reassembled the frame and sensors and put the frame and lens back on the 57F59.

The most tedious part is removing and reattaching the sensors around the edge of the screen. Everything else is really easy.

Fortunately I cannot see any residue remaining, even when I put up the Dish Guide which is mostly white at the bottom.

While I had the screen off I used a soft cotton pillowcase to wipe the dust off the lenses and looked at the mirror which looked fine.

After 3 hours the set is back in service and the grandchildren are banned from the TV room for the rest of their lives.

I'll let it warm up for a couple of hours and do a 117 point convergence on it this afternoon.

I'll let it warm up for a couple of hours and do a 117 point convergence on it this afternoon.

A big sigh of relief from everyone who had their fingers crossed for you.
Convergence will probably be fine. The screen goes back in the same position, so focus and convergence are unaffected.
Congrats.

Im wondering what most of you guys think is the main thing or things keeping a RP from looking like a FP. Basically what keeps us from screens that look like this.

http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/theater/screenshot99.jpg

For me, my main things are noise, focus and convergence. Especially noise.

I'm no expert on all this but I will admit a good FP tv/Plasma/LCD has an ultra sharp image. I dont know why this is. Now I will say that in my opinion the RP's look deeper with fuller colors. Thats just my opinion. I wish I knew the technical points that make the FP have that sharper than sharp look. Well that is the higher Quality ones. Some low enders look terrible.

My main things are sharpness and richness of PQ.

Also...I'm getting the nerve up to clean the lenses. Are we talking about the outside of the lenses or disassembling the optics. If were talking about that then I'm not sure about it.

I'm no expert on all this but I will admit a good FP tv/Plasma/LCD has an ultra sharp image. I dont know why this is. Now I will say that in my opinion the RP's look deeper with fuller colors. Thats just my opinion. I wish I knew the technical points that make the FP have that sharper than sharp look. Well that is the higher Quality ones. Some low enders look terrible.

Digitals are sharper in my opinion because of three things; convergence can be tighter, brighter pictures "look" sharper, and they have built in edge enhancement because of their pixel structure.

But the pic I posted is from a CRT front projector. I honestly believe that if I could have someone look at my CRT set and get rid of extra hardware and replace some crappy parts with higher performing ones, then yeah it would be far moe competitve with a nice FP. Honestly, the main difference I see in front and rear projection on my set is the lack of noise in a good CRT FP set up. If that noise were removed from the hardware side, my pic quality would take a huge leap forward.

Well if thats your PQ from your set then you should be pretty happy. I know the camera usually doesnt do the PQ justice and that looks real good.

I'm really wanting to do the lens cleaning. IF it calls for just opening it up and wiping it then sure. If I have to take optics apart then no way on my own.

I'm searching the thread right now to find a good set of instructions. I know theres one a few pages back somewhere.

[QUOTE=Mustang68;13065641]Well if thats your PQ from your set then you should be pretty happy. I know the camera usually doesnt do the PQ justice and that looks real good.
QUOTE]

I wish that was from my set, it's actuall from a CRT front projector. You should go check out the CRT forum and look at the Screenshot War. Very eye opening.

Now if I could just get the rest of the yellow crayon from back in November off.

Im wondering what most of you guys think is the main thing or things keeping a RP from looking like a FP. Basically what keeps us from screens that look like this.

http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/theater/screenshot99.jpg

For me, my main things are noise, focus and convergence. Especially noise.

DIY Tweaks will only get you but so far when it comes to picture quality. Secondly most of the CRT FP from where that screen shot came from have been Professionally Calibrated.

The only real way to get the most out of your TV is to get it Calibrated. I thought my DIY Tweaks were good, until I took the plunge & got my set Calibrated last year. It was the best investment I made to my HT yet.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC08743.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/DSC08778.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2742.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_2743.jpg

Now if I could just get the rest of the yellow crayon from back in November off.

Toothbrush?

DIY Tweaks will only get you but so far when it comes to picture quality. Secondly most of the CRT FP from where that screen shot came from have been Professionally Calibrated.

The only real way to get the most out of your TV is to get it Calibrated. I thought my DIY Tweaks were good, until I took the plunge & got my set Calibrated last year. It was the best investment I made to my HT yet.


I think it's more than just calibration. Honestly, my set looks as good as a calibrated set, of which I've seen a ton. The screenshot I posted was from a projector that's not professionally calibrated either. I've also seen some in person that weren't and there is a difference, not necessarily in color accuracy and things like that, that a professional calibration will improve upon. But the actual capability of the set vs a FP. On a FP you see less white spill, better focus and convergence and far less noise. For me, the primary difference is picture noise and overall cleanliness of the picture. Front projectors are also a lot more flexible and are able to me modded. Better optics and componentry. We don't have a Mike Parker modding stuff for us for a cleaner picture. It would be nice though.