Hi Everyone,
I was one of the first and largest proponents of the Hitachi F59A series, I was the one that put together the DIY guide floating around. But this will be my last post in the thread... Hitachi has bought back my 57F59A and I now have a low-end 2008 model 1080p Mits 65" DLP from Costco (not as many settings as the higher models)... I would get the mid-model next time.

While I did not want to do this my TV experience has been a nightmare with things breaking and the HDMI port going out twice within a year.

My Mits does not have the deep blacks that the F59 had and the colors on the F59 are more accurate (after all the tweaks) but the Mit is still very good. I see no rainbows and the fan/wheel is almost silent - To hear it there cannot be any sound in the room and I must be behind the TV -- and I'm very sensitive to this stuff.

I also found that the DLP is clearer... it is especially noticeable with text from my XBOX Media Center. Convergence on the F59 was tweaked but never as clean as the DLP.

Anyway... not bashing the F59 as I did love it for the year or so it actually worked, of the 1.5 yrs I owned it. I just wanted to tell people that if they were concerned about getting a DLP due to a lower quality experience... I can tell you definitely not to worry.

Thanks for putting in the effort to prepare that DIY guide. It helped me and many others, I'm sure. I'd have been in the DLP camp with you too if the 51F59A were not a fraction of the price of a good DLP right now. I just hope that my Hitachi holds up until the LED-lighted technologies (DLP and LCD) come down in price and mature.

All right everyone! I cant believe it but I opened up the set and did the lens cleaning. Real easy to get the screen portion off. I used e-tronic wipes. A little more streaky but I carefully went over it with a normal paper towel and it cleaned up like a beauty.

Man was Mr Bob right. My lenses had a top layer of dust over them. I cant believe my PQ was as good as it was with all that covering them.

While I was there I went sharpie crazy and blacked it out on the inside.

The PQ has improved a lot. The blacks are superb, its a little more sharp and that noise I thought was there may have been the dust. The whites and blacks look clean now.

Even my wife who is skeptical about my tweaks sat down and was blown away. She finally admitted that it now looks as good as most of the Plasma/LCD sets which she thinks are the best. Me personally I have never held that view point.

Anyway I will send a pic tonight or tomorrow. I'm going to watch Knocked Up on HD DVD and see what it looks like.

I'm one happy RP CRT owner right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Did anyone who did the sharpie and lens cleaning have to re-adjust any settings or did everything look good as is? Just wondering since I'll be looking at it pretty close tonight.

I would say FP vs. RP has to do with the RP having to reflect the image off a mirror (mirror probably micro-degrades pq somewhat), and then onto a lenticular opaque screen which is viewed from the opposite side from where reflected image hits it.

FP is a direct view of the original image unmolested by a reflector (mirror) after it left the CRT lens.

We don't have a Mike Parker modding stuff for us for a cleaner picture. It would be nice though.

We're also not spending that kind of money. Mike's stuff is great (especially now that he's turned up the contrast :)), but his investment is huge. Mine may be, too, in time, but for now I've gotten great bang for my buck.

Yea..for the price how can anyone complain. Bang for the buck is exactly what we have all gotten!!:):)

Yea..for the price how can anyone complain. Bang for the buck is exactly what we have all gotten!!:):)

I wouldn't say I'm complaining, and I knew we aren't spending the type of money the FP guys are. But I just can't help but fantasize about how great the pic could be with some tweaking to the hardware.

I wouldn't say I'm complaining, and I knew we aren't spending the type of money the FP guys are. But I just can't help but fantasize about how great the pic could be with some tweaking to the hardware.

Hence, companies like Lumagen. Go for it!

Hence, companies like Lumagen. Go for it!

Yeah, but a Lumagen still can't correct for the problems I'm talking about. Although I have considered getting one for Gamma adjustment as well as overscan correction and SDVD processing.

What I'm talking about are problems inherent in the hardware of the set itself. You can throw software at it, but it still isn't fixing the problem and it will never look as good as if the actual issue is resolved.

I think it's more than just calibration. Honestly, my set looks as good as a calibrated set, of which I've seen a ton. The screenshot I posted was from a projector that's not professionally calibrated either. I've also seen some in person that weren't and there is a difference, not necessarily in color accuracy and things like that, that a professional calibration will improve upon. But the actual capability of the set vs a FP. On a FP you see less white spill, better focus and convergence and far less noise. For me, the primary difference is picture noise and overall cleanliness of the picture. Front projectors are also a lot more flexible and are able to me modded. Better optics and componentry. We don't have a Mike Parker modding stuff for us for a cleaner picture. It would be nice though.

This is comparing apples to oranges. At the price point of the F59 series, it has some limitations from the manufacturer's end. Being able to have more than 2 adjustment points for grayscale would greatly enhance the picture even more. Noise on this set is minimal, and really depends on the source material than anything else. We're all expecting perfection every time we see the HD symbol. The truth is, there is no perfect.

This is why we tweak!

This is comparing apples to oranges. At the price point of the F59 series, it has some limitations from the manufacturer's end. Being able to have more than 2 adjustment points for grayscale would greatly enhance the picture even more. Noise on this set is minimal, and really depends on the source material than anything else. We're all expecting perfection every time we see the HD symbol. The truth is, there is no perfect.

This is why we tweak!

You all seem to be missing my point. I am well aware we don't have G90s and Marquees. And the issues I'm talking about are not really calibration related. I am talking specifically about limitation in the hardware. Noise on the set is not minimal at all to me. Especailly not when comparing it to a good FP set up. You all are saying that for the money the set is very good and I'm not denying that at all. What I am saying is that I bet the potential for reference quality images is there in teh set. All it needs is a little hardware tweaking to pull it out. Almost every mass amarket device performs below it's potential out of the box. Extra parts, inferior parts, decision made to accomate a price point. But wthin the right hands, I bet it can be turned around. I know this is less than likely, but I imagine it can be done. For me, the number one isie I see on my set is noise in comparison the the top of teh line Marquee I saw a little while ago watching the same material. Lens flare is also a huge problem that one guy set out to solve in a link I posted earlier. All I'm saying is that I bet we could get even more performance out of a fully calibarated display with tweaks to the hardware.

Noise on my set is minimal, and certainly less than on my previous NEC XG 1100 8" CRT projector.

However, my NEC XG did allow for a sharper image due to optical and electronic focus across the entire screen, along with astig adjustment. Also, the projector had 8" tubes, making adjustment for a smaller beam spot easier.

About the best tweak I can think of for these sets (after greyscal calibration) is to reduce or elminate light scatter and lens flare by lining the set with black fabric and installing a lens hood.

Noise on my set is minimal, and certainly less than on my previous NEC XG 1100 8" CRT projector.

However, my NEC XG did allow for a sharper image due to optical and electronic focus across the entire screen, along with astig adjustment. Also, the projector had 8" tubes, making adjustment for a smaller beam spot.

About the best tweak I can think of for these sets (after greyscal calibration) is to reduce or elminate light scatter and lens flare by lining the set with black fabric and installing a lens hood.

Noise on my set is minimal, it's not too bad if taken on it's own. But try watching a movie on a really nice projector and then watching the same movie right after on your set. The noise is horrendous, but like I said, with no other frame of reference, it's not bad at all. Now for some reason, when I set my sources to output 720P th noise is greatley reduced, but then so is fine detail. But for me, the noise keeps the picture from looking like a window into the source. it's the difference between this pic

http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/theater/screenshot99.jpg

and this one

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/screenshot991.jpg

Are you sure the noise you're seeing isn't just the grain of the film they shot the movie with?

Are you sure the noise you're seeing isn't just the grain of the film they shot the movie with?

It's not, like I said, I looked at some titles on a front projection set up and it wasn't there. Film grain I like, hardware generated noise I don't. If any of you have a chance to watcha movie you're familiar with on a really good FP set up, do so and report back on the main differences. I have and I'm telling you there is noise generated by my set. It's not a big deal until you notice it, and you'll never notice it if you don't have a superior display to compare it to.

good discussions. I'm not seeing that much noise but I have never seen a really high end FP either. All I know is that my set really looks good after the last tweak I posted. Its as good as my buddies Samsung LCD 1080P viewing the same 1080i content.

good discussions. I'm not seeing that much noise but I have never seen a really high end FP either. All I know is that my set really looks good after the last tweak I posted. Its as good as my buddies Samsung LCD 1080P viewing the same 1080i content.

Right, that's one of my points. You may not notice or care unless you've seen a good FP system. But once you have it is immediately noticeable. And I'm not complaining per se, I mean, I would love to have a streamlined set if it was possible. But bascially what I'm saying is for those how have seen world class set ups, or something close, what would you say is the difference in the image you're seeing?

The noise you are seeing is coming from the camera & not from the movie itself.

Now I have seen high end plasma and LCd sets. With a 1080i signal they look really good but not that much better than mine. I know what your saying though Lordcloud. It took me a long time to dial out the noise. I dont see much now but still can on background shots of scenery. Like the Equator channel. If I try and make that go away it gets to soft. Thats being picky though. My inlaws Sony LCD Projection and buddies Sammy LCD set are just as bad.

The noise you are seeing is coming from the camera & not from the movie itself.

Ummmm.....what camera?

Now I have seen high end plasma and LCd sets. With a 1080i signal they look really good but not that much better than mine. I know what your saying though Lordcloud. It took me a long time to dial out the noise. I dont see much now but still can on background shots of scenery. Like the Equator channel. If I try and make that go away it gets to soft. Thats being picky though. My inlaws Sony LCD Projection and buddies Sammy LCD set are just as bad.

I agree, it's definitely being picky, but hey, I'm picky. Most of the time you'll never notice it, or you'll believe it's part of the picture. It was only when I saw the same movies on a very good (actually arguably the best and unquestionably one of the top three) FP and noticed the lack of noise. But you're right, you dial it out after a while.

So, hardware wise, we would need new glass lens, and a better fresnel/screen system.

How long should I expect the lens cleaning process to take from screen off to screen back on, and where to buy SprayAway?

So, hardware wise, we would need new glass lens, and a better fresnel/screen system.

Right, I would imagine the some deeper hardware mods would work wonders as well.

How long should I expect the lens cleaning process to take from screen off to screen back on, and where to buy SprayAway?

Take your time. But an hour set aside should be more than enough.

Sprayway occasionally turns up in 4 paks @ Costco. Have also seen it @ Target, Walmart (once, I think), ACE Hardware stores. May also check auto parts areas or stores in the car cleaning products sections. Have seen similar foam glass cleaners for cars (local car wash uses foam glass cleaner). Make sure, though, it's GLASS CLEANER---not some foam based car wash! (Duh! ;) )

It's not like other glass cleaners won't work, but Sprayway is foam, so less worry over dripping cleaner onto/into stuff. Non-ammonia is really only if you have a 1st surface mirror (the shiny reflective part is exposed). Anything with a trace of ammonia in it will muck those up instantly. No F59 uses these (at least not the 51/57---doubt it on the 65 either, but I'd check first).

So, Windex will work for you. But I'd look for any foam glass cleaner, as foam is just easier to deal with. And if/when in doubt, go w/ any non-ammonia product, just in case.

It's not like other glass cleaners won't work, but Sprayway is foam, so less worry over dripping cleaner onto/into stuff. Non-ammonia is really only if you have a 1st surface mirror (the shiny reflective part is exposed). Anything with a trace of ammonia in it will muck those up instantly. No F59 uses these (at least not the 51/57---doubt it on the 65 either, but I'd check first).

Actually, according to the service manual, the 51F710A and the 57F59A both have "first surface" mirrors.
I got my Sprayway at WalMart.

Sprayway is available at Ace Hardware for $2.00.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1421377&cp=&sr=1&origkw=sprayway&kw=sprayway&parentPage=search&searchId=23842807764

It cleans great, and lasts forever. I've been using it on my car windows for several months after I bought it to clean my TV lenses, and it's still nearly full.

Actually, according to the service manual, the 51F710A and the 57F59A both have "first surface" mirrors.
I got my Sprayway at WalMart.


1st surface is not what I meant. OOPS. There are some RPTV mirrors that use (I think...Mr Bob can chime in here) mylar coated with silver or similar "glassy" element that ammonia products will irrepairably fog up.

Ag (as in silver) mirrors, I think? Something like that, at least

For the F59s (51 & 57, at least) - ANY glass cleaner will be fine. Sprayway & other foams are just easier to work with.

edit: Yes - according to the F59 sm, the 57s use a first surface (as in glass) mirrors- 51s a 2nd surface. 1st/2nd depends on where the reflective area is inrelation to the clear glass. Any cleaner would work - but stick w/ non-ammonia, to be safe.

65" uses the Ag mirror. Ammonia products would be a big no-no. Absolutely go w/ non-ammonia (Sprayway recommened).

Did my convergence last night using Avia. Normally I use the 50 ire grid and always thought convergence was really good, not perfect but still very very good. Last night after moving my set around the previous night to get the cabling under control, I used the 100 ire dots pattern to start with and then went in and used the 50 ire dots pattern. Holy **** did that make a difference! I have the sharpest and cleanest picture I've ever hadI'm looking at TFE on Blu Ray right now and OMG!

1st surface is not what I meant. OOPS. There are some RPTV mirrors that use (I think...Mr Bob can chime in here) mylar coated with silver or similar "glassy" element that ammonia products will irrepairably fog up.

Ag (as in silver) mirrors, I think? Something like that, at least

For the F59s (51 & 57, at least) - ANY glass cleaner will be fine. Sprayway & other foams are just easier to work with.

edit: Yes - according to the F59 sm, the 57s use a first surface (as in glass) mirrors- 51s a 2nd surface. 1st/2nd depends on where the reflective area is inrelation to the clear glass. Any cleaner would work - but stick w/ non-ammonia, to be safe.

65" uses the Ag mirror. Ammonia products would be a big no-no. Absolutely go w/ non-ammonia (Sprayway recommened).

"First surface" is the same as "front surface". It simply means the mirroring is on the front rather than the back. If it's on the back, there are 2 reflections, not one - one from the glass, one from the mirroring - confusing the image. I would be very surprised to see a rear suface mirror used in ANY HD app.

Mylar is a non-glass application, with strectched mylar simply forming a flat surface. It is cleanable but cleaning them is not recommended, as they are incredibliy scratchable, much more so than plastic lenses. And being inherently non-glass, they don't react statically and suck dust/smoke out of the air at all times, like glass does. And plastic lenses.

Don't know exactly what mylar is made of, but static does not affect it the way the static cling produced by 30KV affects glass and plastic.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob,

Is your post#702 before and after pics of lens cleaning or is it something more detailed. If its lens cleaning then that was impressive.

That was an SD Pioneer, 7 years old, before their HDreadys came around.

Being a Pio, it needed the deeper optics cleaning as well as the regular lens tops and mirror clean. 6 more surfaces get treated with the deeper optics - the lens rears and the coolant covers - and if your set needs that, it really needs it.

Some brands seal their coolant covers effectively, rendering no need for the deeper optics cleaning. Mit is one of them. Can't remember if Hit is or not.

If you have any question, remove the green lens, and viewing a super bright picture on your set with your eyes straight out from the cover, peering just over the edge, lick your thumb and place it at the upper far edge of the cover, in the middle, and move it up and off the cover, taking any dust with it.

If that leaves the section you touched pure black where the rest of the cover is still gray, your deeper optics need cleaning.

Which is the same procedure as the lenses, NEVER rubbing back and forth. Most CRT RPTV coolant covers are plastic too.


Mr Bob

"First surface" is the same as "front surface". It simply means the mirroring is on the front rather than the back. If it's on the back, there are 2 reflections, not one - one from the glass, one from the mirroring - confusing the image. I would be very surprised to see a rear suface mirror used in ANY HD app.

Mylar is a non-glass application, with strectched mylar simply forming a flat surface. It is cleanable but cleaning them is not recommended, as they are incredibliy scratchable, much more so than plastic lenses. And being inherently non-glass, they don't react statically and suck dust/smoke out of the air at all times, like glass does. And plastic lenses.

Don't know exactly what mylar is made of, but static does not affect it the way the static cling produced by 30KV affects glass and plastic.


Mr Bob

Bob,

According to the Hit F59 service manual, the 3 sizes in that line use 3 different mirror types.

The big 65" uses the mylar Ag-type, the 57" a 1st/front surface & the 51" a 2nd surface.

I could see going w/ the mylar for the 65, as I assume this cuts down on overall weight of the set (mylar being lighter than mirrored glass).

Strange that the 51 (the model I own) uses a 2nd surface mirror. Could it be that for that size, the 2nd surface was adequate? Haven't seen any real differences in the 51 & 57's picture other than screen size. I assume Hitachi did this for a reason, perhaps finding that the 2nd surface worked well w/ the smaller set? And perhaps 2nd surface was cheaper?

Not complaining. And not gonna lose sleep over what type of mirror is used in my TV.

But your thoughts/opinions are, as always, appreciated.

Bob,

According to the Hit F59 service manual, the 3 sizes in that line use 3 different mirror types.

The big 65" uses the mylar Ag-type, the 57" a 1st/front surface & the 51" a 2nd surface.

I could see going w/ the mylar for the 65, as I assume this cuts down on overall weight of the set (mylar being lighter than mirrored glass).

Strange that the 51 (the model I own) uses a 2nd surface mirror. Could it be that for that size, the 2nd surface was adequate? Haven't seen any real differences in the 51 & 57's picture other than screen size. I assume Hitachi did this for a reason, perhaps finding that the 2nd surface worked well w/ the smaller set? And perhaps 2nd surface was cheaper?

Not complaining. And not gonna lose sleep over what type of mirror is used in my TV.

But your thoughts/opinions are, as always, appreciated.

I don't like mylar, and can't wait to get it replaced on my 73" Mit, which has had to take a back seat lately to all the travelling I have been doing. The blacks are significantly better in front surface glass, and the light level is 25% stronger.

If yours has a rear-surface mirror, I would consider getting a front surface instead, in there. You will not then be getting double-imaging in your reflections.

Try www.highreflectivemirrors.com.


Mr Bob

I also used a sharpie on the back of the little wood panel right behind the gray front panel. The convergence as well as this has seemed to add up to a much nicer picture than I had before. richer colors. cleaner picture overall, and sharper as well.

First, it took me an hour to do the sharpie job and clean the top lenses.

Second, Where can I get a DVE or AVIA disk. Can these only be used for DCAM..because I'm not sure I want to try that?

Lordcloud seems to have had such success I want to give it a try.

Third, compared my set against my Buddies Sammy 40 inch LCD. Both running HD DVD Transformers. His had a very little more sharpness and a little less noise but it was so close. Mine had better color richness, and blacks smoked his. So I am going to say mine looked better overall. IMHO

First, it took me an hour to do the sharpie job and clean the top lenses.

Second, Where can I get a DVE or AVIA disk. Can these only be used for DCAM..because I'm not sure I want to try that?

Lordcloud seems to have had such success I want to give it a try.

Third, compared my set against my Buddies Sammy 40 inch LCD. Both running HD DVD Transformers. His had a very little more sharpness and a little less noise but it was so close. Mine had better color richness, and blacks smoked his. So I am going to say mine looked better overall. IMHO

For me, DCAM has worked so much better than the user convergence simply becasue I have found the dots pattern to be far more efective than using the lines. I would also say sharpie that litle board in front as well, only becasue it seems to have helped me so much.

I had a friend's AVIA and DVE for a long long long long....way too long time, and after I finally got it back to him, I rented AVIA from Blockbuster on-line and burned it. You don't get the color filters, but I don;t really need them.

If your talking about that little particle board just in front of the lenses where the screen mounts then I got it already. I dont think there was anything in there that was not black after I finished. I thought I was in wood shop again after that. My living room just stopped smelling like sharpie.

Can I still use AVIA/DVE without going into DCAM or is it just for that?

Second, Where can I get a DVE or AVIA disk. Can these only be used for DCAM..because I'm not sure I want to try that?


Twice a year, DeepDiscount runs a sale with prices even better than their usual, which are okay.
http://search.deepdiscount.com/search?p=KK&srid=S7%2d3&lbc=deepdiscount&ts=custom&pw=avia&uid=468342100&isort=score&w=Calibration%20Dvd&rk=1
DVE is available in HD (actually a dual format disc); AVIA is not, yet.
Neither is perfect, each is helpful. Boils down to personal preference.
I never liked the color filters, myself, which is why I was so excited about the modified technique I posted above in post #1391. Much to my surprise, there hasn't been a single comment about it, so I can't tell you how (or if) it has worked for anyone else.
Michael

Thanks to the link to the archived thread for the F500's, I modified a technique for adjusting the color. Give it a try. Standard warning: WRITE DOWN ALL SETTINGS BEFORE CHANGING ANYTHING.

Bring up the color bars of your choice (I've used AVIA and DVE with the same results).
In the user menu, set Color to 50, Tint to 0 and Temperature to Standard.
In the service menu, change COLORG to 00 (if you've changed it to 01).
Change RGBOUT (first item in TA1360 menu) to 03.
Scroll down to COLOR-STD and TINT-STD and alternate between them until the blue boxes are all the same color. Don't forget to press SELECT to save your final settings.
Back up to RGBOUT, change to 02 (green).
Alternate between GY-PH-CBCR and G/BGA-CBCR-STD to get as many of the green boxes as close to the same color as possible. SELECT.
Back to RGBOUT, change to 01 (red).
Alternate between RY-PH-CBCR and R/BGA-CBCR-STD to get as many of the red boxes as close to the same color as possible. SELECT.
Up to RGBOUT, change to 00 (unless you're particularly fond of red, green, or blue). SELECT.
Find COLORG and change it back to 01. SELECT.
Exit the service menu, pop in the disc of your choice, and let me know what you think.
Michael

I just have not had time to try it out. Now, you will have to adjust for the input type your using, i.e., CBCR, YBPR, HDMI, etc, correct?

Twice a year, DeepDiscount runs a sale with prices even better than their usual, which are okay.
http://search.deepdiscount.com/search?p=KK&srid=S7%2d3&lbc=deepdiscount&ts=custom&pw=avia&uid=468342100&isort=score&w=Calibration%20Dvd&rk=1
DVE is available in HD (actually a dual format disc); AVIA is not, yet.
Neither is perfect, each is helpful. Boils down to personal preference.
I never liked the color filters, myself, which is why I was so excited about the modified technique I posted above in post #1391. Much to my surprise, there hasn't been a single comment about it, so I can't tell you how (or if) it has worked for anyone else.
Michael

Dual format meaning HD DVD and SD. NOT HD DVD and BluRay.


Mr Bob

Bring up the color bars of your choice (I've used AVIA and DVE with the same results).
In the user menu, set Color to 50, Tint to 0 and Temperature to Standard.
In the service menu, change COLORG to 00 (if you've changed it to 01).
Change RGBOUT (first item in TA1360 menu) to 03.
Scroll down to COLOR-STD and TINT-STD and alternate between them until the blue boxes are all the same color. Don't forget to press SELECT to save your final settings.
Back up to RGBOUT, change to 02 (green).
Alternate between GY-PH-CBCR and G/BGA-CBCR-STD to get as many of the green boxes as close to the same color as possible. SELECT.
Back to RGBOUT, change to 01 (red).
Alternate between RY-PH-CBCR and R/BGA-CBCR-STD to get as many of the red boxes as close to the same color as possible. SELECT.
Up to RGBOUT, change to 00 (unless you're particularly fond of red, green, or blue). SELECT.
Find COLORG and change it back to 01. SELECT.
Exit the service menu, pop in the disc of your choice, and let me know what you think.
Michael


I was under the impression that COLORG affected the red push skewing appreciably, and that it should prolly be optimized before any further tweaking.

If you just set it back where it was before, after doing some serious and high end precision color decoding tweaking - as very correctly described here, nice job of relaying that info, Michael - I believe it would seriously alter your high precision results of that tweaking.

Shouldn't it be optimized and then left alone after you've done the high precision stuff and memorized it? That would set the platform used, and keep it there.

I have used that technique you described many times, BTW. I learned it years ago from Paul Carleton, over at the SPot, during a cal he set up for me in Seattle. He used to be a cameraman and they would realign their cams each day, before their shoots, with this method.

Other brands use other methods - Sony uses RGBS or RON, GON, BON, Mit used the ONs during the first 2 model years of their HDreadys and now you have to use the 1, 2 and 3 buttons in the conv sm, Tosh used TEST in the Designer mode of their first HDreadys, Pioneer uses discrete buttons in the top third of their remotes, can't remember the names of the buttons but they don't say the colors.

True color isolation is the only way to fly, the filters only get you close. Unfortunately with many of the fixed pixel modalities of today, there are no such color isolation registers, and you HAVE to use the filters.

With Mit having gone to the very cumbersome and not completely accurate PerfectColor, Pioneer and Tosh not having any decoding registers at all, Hit is one of the last brands capable of 100% linear color rendition, via this method, which can be used on all of their scanrates in there.


Mr Bob

I just have not had time to try it out. Now, you will have to adjust for the input type your using, i.e., CBCR, YBPR, HDMI, etc, correct?

I thought so, too. However, though I have several different inputs in use, the CBCR settings were the only ones that changed anything. Yes, even though the HD player is HDMI. Can't tell you why, just letting you know what happened.

Net result is a nicer picture on all inputs, including "air." I used to be able to get either red or yellow, but not both (red was orange or yellow was green). Now the colors are great.

Next step is to redo the lens striping to get an even white across the screen. That has still eluded me.

I was under the impression that COLORG affected the red push skewing appreciably, and that it should prolly be optimized before any further tweaking.

If you just set it back where it was before, after doing some serious and high end precision color decoding tweaking - as very correctly described here, nice job of relaying that info, Michael - I believe it would seriously alter your high precision results of that tweaking.

Shouldn't it be optimized and then left alone after you've done the high precision stuff and memorized it? That would set the platform used, and keep it there.


With COLORG set to anything besides 0, it was not possible to get the red color bars even. The net result on regular viewing, though, was, well, too much red, so I set it back to 1. Others may have different results, which is why I was hoping for some feedback. I freely admit that I have monkeyed with this set far beyond what I probably should have, so my baseline is likely no where near OOB. But I am ecstatic. Except for the change in tint from one side to the other, which is a work in progress.

With COLORG set to anything besides 0, it was not possible to get the red color bars even. The net result on regular viewing, though, was, well, too much red, so I set it back to 1. Others may have different results, which is why I was hoping for some feedback. I freely admit that I have monkeyed with this set far beyond what I probably should have, so my baseline is likely no where near OOB. But I am ecstatic. Except for the change in tint from one side to the other, which is a work in progress.
THe more tweaks or mods I do the more I am amazed how many of you guys have the eye for detail. Either my TV is close to spot on or I dont have the eye to recognize that my whites are not even across the screen or tint is uneven.

I need to get AVIA or DVE and try that. My problem is that Blockbuster tried to say I lost a movie I turne din years ago and I'm still at war with them. I guess I will get it online and have it shipped. EBAY probably will have them cheap enough. I just need to get the one for HD which I guess is DVE.

THe more tweaks or mods I do the more I am amazed how many of you guys have the eye for detail. Either my TV is close to spot on or I dont have the eye to recognize that my whites are not even across the screen or tint is uneven.

Hopefully the former.:)
U2's "Rattle and Hum" starts in black and white. As the performers move around, the grays should stay the same "color." White scenes like the "Mountains" chapter of Planet Earth should be, uh, white.

How about NetFlix?

With COLORG set to anything besides 0, it was not possible to get the red color bars even. The net result on regular viewing, though, was, well, too much red, so I set it back to 1. Others may have different results, which is why I was hoping for some feedback. I freely admit that I have monkeyed with this set far beyond what I probably should have, so my baseline is likely no where near OOB. But I am ecstatic. Except for the change in tint from one side to the other, which is a work in progress.

I also initially set my color decoder acording to the color bars, but yeah, red was way too much.

THe more tweaks or mods I do the more I am amazed how many of you guys have the eye for detail. Either my TV is close to spot on or I dont have the eye to recognize that my whites are not even across the screen or tint is uneven.

I need to get AVIA or DVE and try that. My problem is that Blockbuster tried to say I lost a movie I turne din years ago and I'm still at war with them. I guess I will get it online and have it shipped. EBAY probably will have them cheap enough. I just need to get the one for HD which I guess is DVE.


www.amazon.com, or www.buy.com

Mr Bob

I also initially set my color decoder acording to the color bars, but yeah, red was way too much.


Then the color decoding alignment seems to have not worked.

You can also change the color and tint, rather than the colorgo. But then where is the standard? The reference?

That's one thing I hate about the PerfectColor system of Mits's. You can align the colors to get the least amount of difference between bars, but you have to set the internal sm color and tint settings by eye and let the rest follow.

On Hit's, tho, I have always been able to dial the color in to complete linearity with those methods above. My reds were not too accentuated, everything was silky smooth, just like it's supposed to be.

Same with the old Mit's, tho the Hit's were always dialed in the first time around on all 3 colors. On the Mit's, I had to keep going back and redoing the blue every time I would do one of the other colors. Eventually it would all co-operate and fall into place.

On the Hits, that repeat of the process was not needed.


:confused:


Mr Bob

Hey guys!

I am a happy owner of a Hitachi 51F59A television set and am very excited to see all of the information that has been contributed by each of you about this TV. I am interested in compiling a list of all of the information in an organized manner and posting it on my domain.

That way, if someone has a TV like this and wants to tweak it, they don't have to read through 50+ pages of information to find the key items to help them.

So, with that said, would someone mind helping me compile a list of all the LATEST tweaks/tips/fixes for this TV?

Best regards,
Tony

So, with that said, would someone mind helping me compile a list of all the LATEST tweaks/tips/fixes for this TV?

Best regards,
Tony

Been there, done that. Welcome aboard.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13049949&postcount=1476

Then there's the fix for the HDMI shift problem:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9668868&postcount=26

Michael

Half the fun is mind numbing research into the threads. I will say that I will go into a search looking for one thing and end up learning 2 new tweaks or mods. So researching has its place.

Thanks Mr Bob, I will order the DVE disk this weekend.

Hey guys!

I am a happy owner of a Hitachi 51F59A television set and am very excited to see all of the information that has been contributed by each of you about this TV. I am interested in compiling a list of all of the information in an organized manner and posting it on my domain.

That way, if someone has a TV like this and wants to tweak it, they don't have to read through 50+ pages of information to find the key items to help them.

So, with that said, would someone mind helping me compile a list of all the LATEST tweaks/tips/fixes for this TV?

Best regards,
Tony

Keep in mind, this is only the latest thread in the series of Hit threads. There are no less than 3 other threads dealing with Hit CRT RPTVs, one an incredibly long one, here at the AVS.


Mr Bob

I was under the impression that COLORG affected the red push skewing appreciably, and that it should prolly be optimized before any further tweaking.

If you just set it back where it was before, after doing some serious and high end precision color decoding tweaking - as very correctly described here, nice job of relaying that info, Michael - I believe it would seriously alter your high precision results of that tweaking.

Shouldn't it be optimized and then left alone after you've done the high precision stuff and memorized it? That would set the platform used, and keep it there.

Valid point. So I changed it back to 0 and it looks fine, so I'll leave it that way for a while.
BTW, from the service manual: COLORG Color gamma correction point; 0=off, 1=.23, 2=.37, 3=.52 Vp-p

Valid point. So I changed it back to 0 and it looks fine, so I'll leave it that way for a while.
BTW, from the service manual: COLORG Color gamma correction point; 0=off, 1=.23, 2=.37, 3=.52 Vp-p


Oh boy, new corrections to have to master!

All greek to me, on the color gamma stuff, tho I am sure I could master it if necessary. Good thing all we need to know is the stuff you elaborated on earlier -


Mr Bob

Greek. Gamma. I get it. :D

I have a F59 and was wondering if someone a little more technical than I am could help me with something. My TV went out a couple months ago and they came out and replaced the board. Afterwards everything was really yellowish and some guy from sears did his best to get the colors normal again. Now whenever there is something really bright on the screen and everything else is black (moon, screensaver, etc) you see a huge halo from it across the screen. Even with the standard color settings way down its still there. Does anyone know that service menu item I could change to maybe get rid of this? Thanks

I have a F59 and was wondering if someone a little more technical than I am could help me with something. My TV went out a couple months ago and they came out and replaced the board. Afterwards everything was really yellowish and some guy from sears did his best to get the colors normal again. Now whenever there is something really bright on the screen and everything else is black (moon, screensaver, etc) you see a huge halo from it across the screen. Even with the standard color settings way down its still there. Does anyone know that service menu item I could change to maybe get rid of this? Thanks


Depending on what board the servicer replaced, he may not have performed some of the high voltage adjustments, or copied over the parameters from the old digital board. Best bet would be to contact Hitachi, have them send someone out who has the equipment and knowledge to calibrate your TV properly. (I.E., an ISF Calibrator). You still under warranty? This is nothing you should have to put up with.

I've had it a year and a half but bought the extended warranty which is only through Sears now I believe. Its such a hassle to use them though and they never know whats going on so I'm honestly thinking about just paying someone to come calibrate it if Hitachi wont because its been annoying me so bad.

I have a F59 and was wondering if someone a little more technical than I am could help me with something. My TV went out a couple months ago and they came out and replaced the board. Afterwards everything was really yellowish and some guy from sears did his best to get the colors normal again. Now whenever there is something really bright on the screen and everything else is black (moon, screensaver, etc) you see a huge halo from it across the screen. Even with the standard color settings way down its still there. Does anyone know that service menu item I could change to maybe get rid of this? Thanks

Not sure but it sounds like lens flare to me and it's the exact same issue I'm having. Don't know how to get rid of it without modifying the tubes and that I'm not willing to do.

http://www.sonic.net/~dgibbons/essay7.html

I know this is a Hitachi thread, but I think it's important to stay clear on just what CRT is capable of, esp. if you are having problems with your set and are contemplating buying new. These shots are from my Mit 73" triple gun CRT, just like yours. For the fidelity of screenshots on computer monitors, pics from your CRT sets can look just as good as these, once your sets have been fully cleaned and calibrated.

I think you really should keep your set going, and these shots help keep in focus as to why. None of the new modalities can do better blacks than CRT, and few even approach what CRT can do, in that arena.

The crispness speaks for itself, and it's a natural crispness, not an artificial one. This is Y Pb Pr component, from my Dish VIP 622 DVR. Component is all I use, don't even have HDMI hooked up on my system.

HD DVD looks even better.


Mr Bob



Knight Rider

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9717/21808knightriderontosh0fc4.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6820/21808knightriderontosh0vk5.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8831/21808knightriderontosh0ho9.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/896/21808knightriderontosh0bi4.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5149/21808knightriderontosh0zx3.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2344/21808knightriderontosh0rx9.jpg[/URL]


Lena Headley - Sarah Conner Chronicles

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2540/21808knightriderontosh0es0.jpg[/URL]

hi everybody, i have been lurking this thread for a few months now and gaining lots of info and i have a few questions of my own now. my dad bought a 51f59 last august and for the family Christmas present he bought a PS3. I originally had it hooked up through component connections and all the colors looked pretty spot on with Lee Bailey's suggested settings. I bought my dad a HDMI cable for valentine's day for a penny on amazon and hooked it up last night. The image shifting doesn't bother me (as most of my dad's PS3 games are 720p only i have the tv set to scale the signal to 1080i, the trade off of playing a 408i/p image to 1080i is worth a little image shift here and there) but the red seems over powering, it is especially apparent in the MLB 08 demo and on the Burnout Paradise HUD. Are there any service menu tweaks to fix that? I have the color adjusment on the user menu set right in the middle. Also I have the focus problem that a poster on the first few pages had where the image was clear in the middle and fuzzy on the left and right 3 inches of the screen, i called Hitachi and just have to call back my local authorized hitachi center with my serial number to set up an appointment. mr bob, would overscan adjustmnet be covered under warranty as well? there are no problems with any hud or tickers except the gran turismo hd demo about a quarter inch on each side is cut off. thanks a bunch in advance. oh and i have the ps3 hooked up via hdmi becuase i use it to upscale dvds. on another note, what does the firmware update change? the verison i am beign sent is 1.3.


edit: mr bob those shots are amazing

I never liked the color filters, myself, which is why I was so excited about the modified technique I posted above in post #1391. Much to my surprise, there hasn't been a single comment about it, so I can't tell you how (or if) it has worked for anyone else.
Michael I tried this and it worked quite well-- Colors are more vibrant and natural looking--I had some red push with the 00 setting-set it back to 01-looks much better -thanks

I tried this and it worked quite well-- Colors are more vibrant and natural looking--I had some red push with the 00 setting-set it back to 01-looks much better -thanks

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you were successful.
I've got COLORG at 00 (as Bob suggested). Looks great. Go figure.
Michael

mr bob, would overscan adjustmnet be covered under warranty as well?

edit: mr bob those shots are amazing


Thanks! Your set can look just as good, just let me at it.

Sorry, I don't believe any manufacturer will honor a warranty claim on overscan reduction. Reduction is not the issue - that's fairly straightforward. It's correcting the immense hosing of the picture that occurs in response to that, that takes the talent.

And repair techs, those for whom warranty is all about, don't usually even know how to correct minor geometry errors. Just finding one who would know how to correct the massive hosing of o'scan reduction would be incredibly lucky.

Of course you ARE lucky, you have ME...

:rolleyes:


Mr Bob

i cannot afford you mr bob (i live in southwest michigan, your travel expenses alone would break the bank for me, although i knnow it owuld be worth it) and i dont know if i want to get into messing with dcam and screen jigs myself, unless it was fairly easy. any ideas on how to tame the reds?

Hey guys,

I have been reading through the tweak forum and have adjusted my televison to the point where I am very happy with it except that the edges of the screen are blurry no matter what I do. I really only notice it with text but it still bugs me. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and has fixed it. Thanks for the help.

Steve

i cannot afford you mr bob (i live in southwest michigan, your travel expenses alone would break the bank for me, although i knnow it owuld be worth it) and i dont know if i want to get into messing with dcam and screen jigs myself, unless it was fairly easy. any ideas on how to tame the reds?


Yes. Lower your color level.

Of course that will lower the blue and green too, which is why I call red push "blue green diminish".

A complete scenario on how to realign your color decoding was given just a bit earlier here on this thread. See top of this page and take it from there.


I have a friend in Detroit I'd love to visit, if you want to put a tour together. May join in the expenses of that tour as an equal partner, just to make that happen -


Mr Bob

Night sky - try THAT with bulb driven fixed pixel! Or dirty optics...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7627/21808knightriderontosh0vg1.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1073/21808knightriderontosh0fh4.jpg

Scooby Doo commercial - notice the head's moving on farthest right side guy, 2 images of his left hand, from 2 different frames -

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6059/21808knightriderontosh0dm5.jpg

Corrupt sheriff - blurry from slo-mo, to keep the pause bar outa there -

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9561/21808knightriderontosh0op2.jpg

Hey guys,

I have been reading through the tweak forum and have adjusted my televison to the point where I am very happy with it except that the edges of the screen are blurry no matter what I do. I really only notice it with text but it still bugs me. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and has fixed it. Thanks for the help.

Steve


"Blurry" can always mean either focusing or convergence, on CRT tech. It is usually convergence. User Manual can get that right, once your DCUBRT and DCUCONT have been lowered in sm to half the factory level.


Mr Bob

"Blurry" can always mean either focusing or convergence, on CRT tech. It is usually convergence. User Manual can get that right, once your DCUBRT and DCUCONT have been lowered in sm to half the factory level.


Mr Bob

Mr. Bob

I have dont the manual convergence after lowering these levels and it still wont help. The easiest way for me to explain it for you is that on the convergence 117 pt screen the 2 farthest right and left vertical lines seem thicker and blurrier than the rest of the lines and i cant get them to change.

Mr. Bob

I have dont the manual convergence after lowering these levels and it still wont help. The easiest way for me to explain it for you is that on the convergence 117 pt screen the 2 farthest right and left vertical lines seem thicker and blurrier than the rest of the lines and i cant get them to change.


Can you send up some pix?

Can you send up some pix?

Yeah, but I'm at work right now so it wont be for a while.

Thanks for the help

Night sky - try THAT with bulb driven fixed pixel! Or dirty optics...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7627/21808knightriderontosh0vg1.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1073/21808knightriderontosh0fh4.jpg

Scooby Doo commercial - notice the head's moving on farthest right side guy, 2 images of his left hand, from 2 different frames -

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6059/21808knightriderontosh0dm5.jpg

Corrupt sheriff - blurry from slo-mo, to keep the pause bar outa there -

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9561/21808knightriderontosh0op2.jpg

Now, if we can just find a way for NBC to stop mucking up their HD programming with ID bugs that advertise new shows. NBC is getting really bad about this!!

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you were successful.
I've got COLORG at 00 (as Bob suggested). Looks great. Go figure.
Michael

I felt there was a slight red push after using this color correction method with COLORG at 00 for my set, but that was the only COLORG setting where I could really get the red boxes to stop flashing with the color bars even on the AVIA red color bar pattern.

I have it set to COLORG 02 right now because that was the setting with the least neon-looking reds and the most even results on the AVIA color bars other with COLORG not at 00.

It looks great! I'm very happy with it now.

Hey guys I took some pictures of the TV I really couldn't get the grid to turn out correctly on photo but you should be able to get the idea.

This is what it looks like in the center :)
http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen.p.wilson/TV/photo#5168854711682123090

This is the right hand side:mad: It looks like convergence is off in the pic but I can just not adjust it right if thats what it is.

http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen.p.wilson/TV/photo#5168855755359176098

Here is a pic of it overall (camera doubled some of the lines from my unsteady picture taking) but you can still see the sides are more blurry.

http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen.p.wilson/TV/photo#5168855751064208786

Thanks,

Steve

Hey guys I took some pictures of the TV I really couldn't get the grid to turn out correctly on photo but you should be able to get the idea.

This is what it looks like in the center :)


This is the right hand side:mad: It looks like convergence is off in the pic but I can just not adjust it right if thats what it is.



Here is a pic of it overall (camera doubled some of the lines from my unsteady picture taking) but you can still see the sides are more blurry.


Thanks,

Steve


my dad's set is doing the same thing within the first two pages of this thread there is a poster who stated eh had the same problems. I called my local Hitachi service center and they are going to adjust the focus under warranty.

edit: posts 47. 48. 53 and 54 adress this specifically. i dont think the OP posted again after getting it fixed so who knows what happened.

Yes. Lower your color level.

Of course that will lower the blue and green too, which is why I call red push "blue green diminish".

A complete scenario on how to realign your color decoding was given just a bit earlier here on this thread. See top of this page and take it from there.


I have a friend in Detroit I'd love to visit, if you want to put a tour together. May join in the expenses of that tour as an equal partner, just to make that happen -


Mr Bob

sorry mr. bob but im a poor college student :) once i get the red push fixed and a hitachi rep out here to fix the focus ill be happy. has anyone here had experience with Blacki'es Audio and Video for service on their sets? They are the tech's in my area.

I have owned teh Television for over a year now but I did buy the Best buy warranty. Do you think it would be something they would even consider a problem and cover it under warranty or is there a way i could fix this. Im really not afraid to take this tv apart.

I am hoping one of you guys with a 59 series and a Harmony remote can help me out. I am wondering what you guys have set the different delay times for. Right now the Harmony software defaults to:

Power On Delay: 5000ms
Inter-key Delay: 100ms
Input Delay: 1100ms
Inter-Device Delay: 1000ms

The response setting (from 0 to 5) would be great to know also. Right now the Harmony software defaults to 1.

I recently purchased a 57F59 from UEC Web at a great price and have been trying to get it set up with my Harmony 880, and get it to respond as quickly as possible.

I recently purchased a 57F59 from UEC Web at a great price and have been trying to get it set up with my Harmony 880, and get it to respond as quickly as possible.

The best thing you can do is to set up the inputs using "method 4." The default list has an extra input that you need to delete. That will leave you with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and air (InputAntennaA). This allows the remote direct access to the inputs, which even the remote that comes with the set can't do.
My inter-key delay is 100, input delay is 500, and inter-device delay is 500.
There is, of course, an entire thread here for the Harmony 880 (and 890). Some great ideas scattered throughout.
Also look at this sticky:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=623320

Enjoy this great combination.

Yeah I already knew about the discreet inputs, I'm actually the one who first mentioned InputAntennaA working to go directly to the RF input when I was setting up my parents 880 with their 51F59. Thanks for pointing that out though.

I was really just looking for the different delays, cause that is kind of a pain to figure out on your own. Change the value, go see if it works, come back change it again, try it again, etc, etc. I did it that way with my parents TV and quit after about an hour. I was hoping that someone might be able to save me the trouble. So thanks for posting your delays, I will try them out tonight. How about power on delay?

How about power on delay?
I have an HD player, so I generally push "Play HD," put the remote down on the table facing the equipment, and go get a drink. By the time I come back, the DVD tray is waiting for a disc and everything is on.
So a power on delay change of a few milliseconds isn't going to affect my life much.:)
If it's just the TV, changing the settings to minimum and working up from there isn't too tedious. If you had four other pieces of equipment, it would get more complicated (and less worthwhile, IMHO). Good luck.

Remember, color decoding is a BALANCE among the 3 colors. Red push is MORE red than the other 2 colors - not just too much red.

You can't just adjust COLORGO for the best amount of red without taking the rest of the colors into account. Silky smooth, completely linear color decoding is achieving the industry standard BALANCE among the 3 colors.


Mr Bob

I felt there was a slight red push after using this color correction method with COLORG at 00 for my set, but that was the only COLORG setting where I could really get the red boxes to stop flashing with the color bars even on the AVIA red color bar pattern.

I have it set to COLORG 02 right now because that was the setting with the least neon-looking reds and the most even results on the AVIA color bars other with COLORG not at 00.

It looks great! I'm very happy with it now.

Well, watching a little 4:3 with the gray bars on the side made me notice some red in my gray (a.k.a. white). I changed COLORG back to 00 and re-calibrated using the RGB color bars on Avia. The gray looks much better now. Every once in a while there will be a red tone that looks like a glow stick at a rave when it probably should not, but I think that this is the best overall picture I have had yet.

It's like Bob said a post or two back, getting the best picture requires you to find a balance among the color decoding settings. I'll sacrifice the occasional crazy red for generally accurate color temperature, at least as far as my eyes can tell.

Mr Bob,

I just want to say those are the best blacks..colors I have ever seen on any TV period. Thats from a camera too. I bet the PQ is even better in real life.

I'm still waiting to get my DVE disk so I can mess with the colors a little bit more. I'm still having trouble with noise in the pic, especially in the blue sky screen shots and other solid backgrounds. I had Transformers HD DVD on the other day and the PQ was incredible except for that. I had sharpness turned down to 30 and still had it. Maybe someone can suggest something. The PQ is great and the colors are nice. I just cant get the noise out without making the pic to soft.

My tweaks are basically in line with Lordclouds, VivatHD and everyone else, to include the sharpie and lenses cleaning.

My tweaks are basically in line with Lordclouds, VivatHD and everyone else, to include the sharpie and lenses cleaning.

You may want to go through the service menu and compare it to the defaults in your service manual; you may have accidentally changed something in passing. Settings that have been mentioned here that affect "sharpness" to a degree are SRTGA (defaults to 10, recommended change to 00, though many have changed it back) and YDTL (defaults to 07).
Or sit further back.:)
Michael

P.S.
Assume you've also checked the user menu and "edge enhancement" (or whatever they call it) is off.

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you were successful.
I've got COLORG at 00 (as Bob suggested). Looks great. Go figure.
Michael

I've updated the Hitachi DIY Guide with your procedure. Thanks for the input!

Well, watching a little 4:3 with the gray bars on the side made me notice some red in my gray (a.k.a. white). I changed COLORG back to 00 and re-calibrated using the RGB color bars on Avia. The gray looks much better now. Every once in a while there will be a red tone that looks like a glow stick at a rave when it probably should not, but I think that this is the best overall picture I have had yet.

It's like Bob said a post or two back, getting the best picture requires you to find a balance among the color decoding settings. I'll sacrifice the occasional crazy red for generally accurate color temperature, at least as far as my eyes can tell.

Are you sure your grayscale is not doing this?

To check it, remove Pb and Pr from your component conns, leaving only your Y. That will get you empirical b/w info. If it is not the color of a gray, cloudy day, then the grayscale needs to be realigned.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob,

I just want to say those are the best blacks..colors I have ever seen on any TV period. Thats from a camera too. I bet the PQ is even better in real life.




Thanks, I have spent MAJOR amounts of time on the colorations. It's not straightforward on mine, like it is on yours, and grayscale is only for the b/w, tho I appreciate your comments on the blacks. Clean blacks are absolutely critical.

I have to use the user PerfectColor on mine, which has 6 colors - the primaries and their corollaries - and just doing one does not confine what gets done to JUST that color. It's an amazing balancing act that needs to go on, among the 6 settings.

And yes, it's just incredible in person. I sit 8' away from my 73", rendering a picture that is HUGE.

:eek:

One guy called it my own private IMAX.

You must come by and take a look!


Mr Bob

I've updated the Hitachi DIY Guide with your procedure. Thanks for the input!

Thanks. I'm flattered.
Have you tried it?

Thanks. I'm flattered.
Have you tried it?

Yes I did. Worked great!

Hey guys,

Im working on the focus right now but as I turn the rod in each gun it seems that I still just cant get it dialed in correctly. It seems I can make slight improvement but nothign to compare the sides to the center of the screen. Do you think that maybe I could have a different problem or just keep working at this?

Thanks
Steve

Hey guys,

Im working on the focus right now but as I turn the rod in each gun it seems that I still just cant get it dialed in correctly. It seems I can make slight improvement but nothign to compare the sides to the center of the screen. Do you think that maybe I could have a different problem or just keep working at this?

Thanks
Steve

The edges will never (okay, almost never) be as sharp as the center; just a limitation of RPCRT technology. The image has further to travel to get to the sides.
Get as close as you can with the lenses. Fine tuning is done with the three "focus" pots inside. DO NOT touch the "screen" pots, unless you want to hire someone to get your greyscale back to normal. The box is labeled, just use a flashlight.
Debate rages whether the focus should be sharpest in the center (leaving the edges more out of focus) or if focus should be sharpest a little off center so the edges are less out of focus. Probably nit-picking. Easy enough to try both ways and see if you care.
If the focus on one SIDE is different from the other side, that's a different problem. Let us know (hint: Scheimpfluge).
Michael

The edges will never (okay, almost never) be as sharp as the center; just a limitation of RPCRT technology. The image has further to travel to get to the sides.
Get as close as you can with the lenses. Fine tuning is done with the three "focus" pots inside. DO NOT touch the "screen" pots, unless you want to hire someone to get your greyscale back to normal. The box is labeled, just use a flashlight.
Debate rages whether the focus should be sharpest in the center (leaving the edges more out of focus) or if focus should be sharpest a little off center so the edges are less out of focus. Probably nit-picking. Easy enough to try both ways and see if you care.
If the focus on one SIDE is different from the other side, that's a different problem. Let us know (hint: Scheimpfluge).
Michael

The better the lens, the more in focus it will be all over the screen. The lenses on these units are good, but not the best. If they were better, you would not have to be making these judgment calls.

And yes, scheimpflug might be the answer, but not for what you have described. Like Michael says, that's for one edge of the screen vs. the other, either t/b or s/s.


Mr Bob

This is what is possible with CRT tech, which all you guys have.

KEEP YOUR SETS!


Mr Bob




Doesn't LOOK like a db, does it?

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2265/22308csiontosh003vm7.jpg[/URL]

Dean Cain, guest appearance

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6123/22308csiontosh009ep3.jpg[/URL]

Well it does look like the right side is quite a bit worse than the left. I ended up getting it dialed in pretty good but i did have to have the center a little out of focus to get the sides a little more in focus because text was just too blurry before.

Again Mr Bob that is a hell of a screen shot:D

I wish I could show the GP how much you can do with these sets. My buddies 3K LCD cannot compare to your set and for that matter it barely matches mine, and I haven't had a pro like you to work it over. A little frustrating at times when I'm extolling the virtues of RP CRT and I get that "huh are you kidding look"!

Again Mr Bob that is a hell of a screen shot:D

I wish I could show the GP how much you can do with these sets. My buddies 3K LCD cannot compare to your set and for that matter it barely matches mine, and I haven't had a pro like you to work it over. A little frustrating at times when I'm extolling the virtues of RP CRT and I get that "huh are you kidding look"!



Well then here's some more. These are broadcast, from my Dish DVR, with MPEG 4 compression, some of the best looking 1080i available.

Night Rider is NBC, Sarah Conner is from Fox. The last set above, from CSI, are CBS.

But my HD DVD player looks even better, with UNcompressed 1080i -

Knight Rider


http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9717/21808knightriderontosh0fc4.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6820/21808knightriderontosh0vk5.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8831/21808knightriderontosh0ho9.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/896/21808knightriderontosh0bi4.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5149/21808knightriderontosh0zx3.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2344/21808knightriderontosh0rx9.jpg[/URL]



Lena Headley, from 300 (queen of Sparta) - Sarah Conner Chronicles

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2540/21808knightriderontosh0es0.jpg[/URL]

Night sky - try THAT with bulb driven fixed pixel! Or dirty optics...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7627/21808knightriderontosh0vg1.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1073/21808knightriderontosh0fh4.jpg

Scooby Doo commercial - notice the head's moving on farthest right side guy, 2 images of his left hand, from 2 different frames -

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6059/21808knightriderontosh0dm5.jpg

Corrupt sheriff - blurry from slo-mo, to keep the pause bar outa there, much crisper in action -

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9561/21808knightriderontosh0op2.jpg

i adjusted colorg from 00 to 01 and that tamed my red push. now the blues eems to be a bit pushed, what do i adjust to fix that? oh and has anyone had experience with Best Buy's Geek Squad for ISF calibration? They have a tech I found on the ISF website that is the closest to me in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

What have you done to adjust the color up to this point?

What have you done to adjust the color up to this point?
im using lee baileys settings, thats about it

give me a list of what settings you want to know of and il list them here, or just pm me

i adjusted colorg from 00 to 01 and that tamed my red push. now the blues eems to be a bit pushed, what do i adjust to fix that? oh and has anyone had experience with Best Buy's Geek Squad for ISF calibration? They have a tech I found on the ISF website that is the closest to me in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

I've had terrible experiences with Best Buy TV service guys. The two clowns that came out to service my set were largely clueless. I had to show them how to access the service mode on the TV! It got bad enough I had to call Hitachi to have a local independent shop come out to finish the job (they were great). I refuse to allow Best Buy techs anywhere near my TV again!

im using lee baileys settings, thats about it

give me a list of what settings you want to know of and il list them here, or just pm me

Have you used Avia, DVE, or even the THX setup that comes on many SD discs?
You can use this procedure if you have color bars from just about anything:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12901540&postcount=1391

Have you used Avia, DVE, or even the THX setup that comes on many SD discs?
You can use this procedure if you have color bars from just about anything:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12901540&postcount=1391

When you say color bars I'm assuming that your referring to something on AVIA/DVE? Or is there someway to do that without those disk?

no i dont have a calibration disc. will these work if i put them on a flash drive and view them either via my ps3 or xbox 360? and will i get the same effect if i set the resolution of either the 360 or ps3 to 720p and let the tv scale it to 1080i

http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/display_tests

no i dont have a calibration disc. will these work if i put them on a flash drive and view them either via my ps3 or xbox 360? and will i get the same effect if i set the resolution of either the 360 or ps3 to 720p and let the tv scale it to 1080i

http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/display_tests

You could use those images. You can also use any Sony studios BR disc (spiderman, the fifth element,etc), enter 7669 at the main menu. The color bars are there. Just set the disc on pause and adjust!

no i dont have a calibration disc. will these work if i put them on a flash drive and view them either via my ps3 or xbox 360? and will i get the same effect if i set the resolution of either the 360 or ps3 to 720p and let the tv scale it to 1080i

http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/display_tests

I saw lots of test patterns, but no color bars patterns, at this link. Color bars allow for optical color comparisons and require single color isolation, which is what is needed for color decoding alignment.


Mr Bob

You could use those images. You can also use any Sony studios BR disc (spiderman, the fifth element,etc), enter 7669 at the main menu. The color bars are there. Just set the disc on pause and adjust!

Or as mentioned here as well, any std DVD w/ a THX Optimizer (Star Wars, Indy Jones, most PIXAR DVDs..) will also have some serviceable color bar patterns.

Some Criterion Collection discs also have color bar options in their menus as does the 2 disc special edition of Boogie Nights.

If you forsee lots of tweaking ahead, I'd invest in AVIA &/or DVE.

Should I get AVIA or DVE. I watch mostly HD content off Dish or my Tosh A20. I read the reviews on both. A lot of peeps ripped the DVE on the HD side. Said the reg DVD SD was great but the HD didnt have clear instructions.

Does it matter? Can't I adjust it off the SD/DVD pic and pretty much get it there. Seems that the AVIA doesn't have a HD portion and everyone seems to use it.

P.S. I have read every post on both. Seems like AVIA is preferred. I dont think I willbe messing with overscan or anything to do with IRE. Mainly colors for me.

Should I get AVIA or DVE. I watch mostly HD content off Dish or my Tosh A20. I read the reviews on both. A lot of peeps ripped the DVE on the HD side. Said the reg DVD SD was great but the HD didnt have clear instructions.

Does it matter? Can't I adjust it off the SD/DVD pic and pretty much get it there. Seems that the AVIA doesn't have a HD portion and everyone seems to use it.

DVE on HD DVD is affordable via amazon.com, and will have what you need.

I DK whether you can use upconverted patterns from SD discs in this app, have never tried it. If so, AVIA would be better.

DVE navigation sucks, whether it's SD or HD. I gave up, only use its filters, which are the best out there, if you HAVE to use filters. Fortunately you don't, with Hitachis.

AVIA is MUCH more nav friendly, but I haven't seen an HD disc version.


Mr Bob

DVE on HD DVD is affordable via amazon.com, and will have what you need.

I DK whether you can use upconverted patterns from SD discs in this app, have never tried it. If so, AVIA would be better.

DVE navigation sucks, whether it's SD or HD. I gave up, only use its filters, which are the best out there, if you HAVE to use filters. Fortunately you don't, with Hitachis.

AVIA is MUCH more nav friendly, but I haven't seen an HD disc version.


Mr Bob
Cool...thats what the consensus seems to have been in the older post. I know I cant get the colors like yours in those last post but I do know mine seem a little soft and not as deep as some I have seen. That shot with the flowers in it. Mine would not have seperated all those hues and variations out as well as yours did. Nor would they have seem so dramatic. I've always thought my blacks were good but I have the feeling that AVIA/DVE could get me closer. Mine are black but lack that deep luster that I have seen in yours and others shots.

Also Mr. Bob or anyone,

You said I wouldn't need the color filters for Hit. Why is that? Getting the colors squared is my goal. I thought the filters were the only way to do that with DVE/AVIA?

Also Mr. Bob or anyone,

You said I wouldn't need the color filters for Hit. Why is that? Getting the colors squared is my goal. I thought the filters were the only way to do that with DVE/AVIA?

You won't need the filters, since via the service menu you can display one color at a time.

You won't need the filters, since via the service menu you can display one color at a time.

Specifically, RGBOUT, as the original instructions mention.

Cameron

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9/22508chroniclesontosh00ex8.jpg[/URL]

John

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9303/22508chroniclesontosh00sj3.jpg[/URL]

Fiance

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7191/22508chroniclesontosh00cd2.jpg[/URL]

Sarah hurting over fiancé

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7891/22508chroniclesontosh01zn4.jpg[/URL]

The bubble chamber

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5092/22508chroniclesontosh01ud6.jpg[/URL]

After reading through this and looking on Amazon, the are 2 versions of Avia. Which one is reccomended?

After reading through this and looking on Amazon, the are 2 versions of Avia. Which one is reccomended?

There is an advanced version of AVIA for REALLY anal calibrators in the $300 price range, a complete set of numerous SD DVDs.

Total overkill for what we're doing. Get the single DVD.


Mr Bob

Hey Mr. Bob:

We all know that you are a true expert when it comes to calibration!!!
Now we can start asking you about photography too.

Great looking pics.

OK I have my DVE disk (I'm cheap and so is DVE) and plan on doing Michaels technique tonight. I have never messed with RGBOUT. When you say alternate between COLOR STD and Tint STD Im assuming you mean change values up or down until each one has turned the boxes blue. (stupid question but I may not have anyone online later to help me) Then repeat the process as explained.

Or do I need to make a change in one and then skip back to the other make a change, ect.... ?

Is this in place of color filters with the same result or a more accurate/efficient way of doing it?

OK I have my DVE disk (I'm cheap and so is DVE) and plan on doing Michaels technique tonight. I have never messed with RGBOUT. When you say alternate between COLOR STD and Tint STD Im assuming you mean change values up or down until each one has turned the boxes blue. (stupid question but I may not have anyone online later to help me) Then repeat the process as explained.

Or do I need to make a change in one and then skip back to the other make a change, ect.... ?

Is this in place of color filters with the same result or a more accurate/efficient way of doing it?

As you change them, you'll see what difference it makes (it will become obvious when you do it and much easier than trying to explain it). Same procedure with the filters, so you're not missing anything. You need to go back and forth, since one affects the other.
As with anything, keep your original settings in a safe place, just in case.
Most importantly, have fun.
Michael

:):) Thanks. I figured it was one of those try and see things. I will probably try it your way as this seems to have worked great for everyone so far. Any way I will give feedback when I am done.

P.S. Looks like my schedule will make me wait until this weekend to give this a try. I'm getting the family out of the house so I can work in peace.


As you change them, you'll see what difference it makes (it will become obvious when you do it and much easier than trying to explain it). Same procedure with the filters, so you're not missing anything. You need to go back and forth, since one affects the other.
As with anything, keep your original settings in a safe place, just in case.
Most importantly, have fun.
Michael

OK I have my DVE disk (I'm cheap and so is DVE) and plan on doing Michaels technique tonight. I have never messed with RGBOUT. When you say alternate between COLOR STD and Tint STD Im assuming you mean change values up or down until each one has turned the boxes blue. (stupid question but I may not have anyone online later to help me) Then repeat the process as explained.

Or do I need to make a change in one and then skip back to the other make a change, ect.... ?

Is this in place of color filters with the same result or a more accurate/efficient way of doing it?

Color and tint are interactive with each other, yes you may have to bounce back and forth on all 3 colors. With Hit, tho, once you have done one color after doing the blue, you don't have to keep bouncing back to the blue and redo it, like you do on the older Mits's.

True color iso is the only way to fly. Filters just get you close, iso is the real thing. Unfortunately on many of today's fixed pixel displays, true color iso is not available, and filters is the only way to do it.

Not on Hit's - on Hit's you can do the whole enchilada, for 100% linear color decoding afterwards. It's very straightforward, unlike what I have to do on my PerfectColor version on my 2 year old Mit CRT, the one responsible for the screenshots above. Totally worth doing, but not straightforward at all! You have to start by doing it by eye and go from there. You can't just start with the blue, like you're supposed to and like it was on the first 2 years of the Mit HDreadys, and like works fine on the Hit's.

Making out which one of the decoding set of the registers takes some experimentation tho. You have to test for it, find the one being affected by the reg set you are on at that time.


Mr Bob

Are you sure your grayscale is not doing this?

To check it, remove Pb and Pr from your component conns, leaving only your Y. That will get you empirical b/w info. If it is not the color of a gray, cloudy day, then the grayscale needs to be realigned.


Mr Bob

I've been away for a few days. Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try. I used the HDMI connection for my DVD player and setup disk, but I have my Xbox 360 hooked up with YPbPr.

I was flipping back and forth between my D* box (SD signal until my contract is up and I can get free HD equipment) and OTA for the same local station on Monday when I noticed that the OTA 480i digital looked MUCH better than the D*. I had mostly been watching DVD and OTA and did not notice how washed out and lifeless the D* channels looked.

After looking in the service manual, I figured that the color adjustment procedure as detailed by LastButNotLeast only affects YPbPr, HDMI, and OTA-digital signals. My D* is hooked up with S-video. So, I hooked up an old DVD player to the front-panel input using the composite video cable and followed the same color adjustment procedure except I adjusted the following settings when viewing the color bars...

Blue color bars:
COLOR-NTSC
TINT-NTSC

Red color bars:
RY-PH-NTSC-STD
R/BGA-NTSC-STD

Green color bars:
GY-PH-NTSC-STD
G/BGA-NTSC-STD

The D* picture (S-video input) looks MUCH better after making these adjustments, and the OTA-digital, HDMI, and YPbPr settings that I had adjusted previously were not changed.

Is anyone running HDMI into their xxF59 from an Onkyo TX-SR605? If yes, is it working correctly?

Fish

Hi Everyone,

My receiver is dated and my speaker (Pioneer S-H351F-K), though I love them, have to go because the speaker wire clip on the back of one of the speakers snapped off while I was moving them and the wire won't stay put. I assume it will cost more to fix them then to purchase something new.

Anyway, I am looking for a good, inexpensive receiver to hook my Hitachi up to as well as some good, inexpensive speakers or speaker system.

Any recommendations??

Thanks!

Is anyone running HDMI into their xxF59 from an Onkyo TX-SR605? If yes, is it working correctly?

Fish

I was running the Onkyo HT-SR800 with my Onkyo 6-cd changer hooked up with HDMI (so I could use the DVD player's upscaling). About 2-3 times per movie, the picture would cut out and go to a blue screen for a second or so. Very annoying.

I hooked up the DVD player straight to my 51F59A and the problem happens less frequently now. It's probably a DRM/handshake related problem. There is a whole separate thread related to HDMI issues for the xxF59 series. You should check it out and report your problem there.

I hooked up the DVD player straight to my 51F59A and the problem happens less frequently now. It's probably a DRM/handshake related problem. There is a whole separate thread related to HDMI issues for the xxF59 series. You should check it out and report your problem there.

I don't yet have an idea where the problem stems from yet. The OSD from the Onkyo via HDMI is hosed and component out via HDMI is hosed. HDMI to HDMI works perfectly. It's a real head-scratcher.

Fish

The D* picture (S-video input) looks MUCH better after making these adjustments, and the OTA-digital, HDMI, and YPbPr settings that I had adjusted previously were not changed.

Knew they had to be there for a reason. Thanks for helping figure that one out. Glad it helped.
Michael

Hi Everyone,

My receiver is dated and my speaker (Pioneer S-H351F-K), though I love them, have to go because the speaker wire clip on the back of one of the speakers snapped off while I was moving them and the wire won't stay put. I assume it will cost more to fix them then to purchase something new.

Anyway, I am looking for a good, inexpensive receiver to hook my Hitachi up to as well as some good, inexpensive speakers or speaker system.

Any recommendations??

Thanks!

I have some awesome original vintage Henry Kloss-designed Advent Loudspeakers in storage that need new homes. I snagged them as they came along, from thrift stores and garage sales, just couldn't let them get sacrificed to the New Gear gods and thrown away...just too good... Their woofers were selected to be used in the famous Dahlquist phased-array speakers, which had something like half a dozen mids/tweets staggered in their depth placement with each other, and a crossover board that was huge, something like 8"x10". The deep bass puff from that Dahlquist speaker was incredible.

I presently use 4 of them as my front speakers, 2 per channel, the top one on each stack inverted so as to keep the tweeters together in the middle, on each side. The effect of such a line drive transmission is awesome, and of course they can take any amount of power you want to give them. They are highly efficient, and Henry Kloss printed a statement on the back that you can send any power capacity you want to them - they are unrated on power handling - as long as what you send in is not test tones. Believe me, they really fill a room when you crank them up, and you don't need to double the amplification power capacity of your amp, to do so.

They are somewhat cosmetically challenged, but the components inside are all original equipment, no replacement tweeters or crossovers, etc at all. All original. Some of the woofers have been re-edged, and I would not recone such a speaker without original Advent cones, which are available from Neal's Speakers in Sacramento, who only does biz with servicers.

The last pair I sold replaced a JBL set, and the new owners were blown away at the improvement in their sound quality after the switchout.

I also need to move a Panasonic surround sound AV receiver, with 500 watts, 5.1 channels, and DD/DTS digital decoding. I replaced it with an Outlaw.


Contact me, I really want the right new home for these.


Mr Bob

I don't yet have an idea where the problem stems from yet. The OSD from the Onkyo via HDMI is hosed and component out via HDMI is hosed. HDMI to HDMI works perfectly. It's a real head-scratcher.

Fish


"component out via HDMI"? Does the amp transcode component to HDMI as it passes thru the amp?


Mr Bob

Well I finally took the screen off, which was pretty easy, and did a cleaning to the inside. The mirror and lenses were dusty and also had a light smokey-film on them (I don't even smoke in my house). So I bought some Sprayway at Target and used that. Was a little nervous about cleaning the lenses but it was fine, and did the mirror about 5 times and it's crystal-clear now.

I also had some Duvetyne cloth that I was using in my photo darkroom, but I cut some pieces and lined the bottom with it. I also made a lens hood from the instructions earlier in this thread, and covered it with the cloth also, and it fit in there perfectly.

What a huge difference it's made. After owning the t.v. for a year, I was watching 2001 HD the other day, and just couldn't deal with the bad light reflections and halo effects. After the mods, it's like having a whole new picture. The blacks are so much deeper, even the colors look deeper, and the halo effects are minimal and shadow detail is greatly improved.

I ran my Avia disc again, and the only adjustment I had to make was raising the brightness from 51 to 58. I'm very pleased, and everything I watch now, especially in HD, is just perfect looking.

Well I finally took the screen off, which was pretty easy, and did a cleaning to the inside. The mirror and lenses were dusty and also had a light smokey-film on them (I don't even smoke in my house). So I bought some Sprayway at Target and used that. Was a little nervous about cleaning the lenses but it was fine, and did the mirror about 5 times and it's crystal-clear now.

I also had some Duvetyne cloth that I was using in my photo darkroom, but I cut some pieces and lined the bottom with it. I also made a lens hood from the instructions earlier in this thread, and covered it with the cloth also, and it fit in there perfectly.

What a huge difference it's made. After owning the t.v. for a year, I was watching 2001 HD the other day, and just couldn't deal with the bad light reflections and halo effects. After the mods, it's like having a whole new picture. The blacks are so much deeper, even the colors look deeper, and the halo effects are minimal and shadow detail is greatly improved.

I ran my Avia disc again, and the only adjustment I had to make was raising the brightness from 51 to 58. I'm very pleased, and everything I watch now, especially in HD, is just perfect looking.

So now you have me thinking... :)

I did the optics cleaning a few months ago, so I was wondering how long it took you for the lens hood and Duvetyne lining.

OK...Did the DVE calibration. My blues were way off. The PQ is outstanding now. I dont know if I'm way off but according to the instructions my brightness is only set to 40. Looks good that way too.

I do have a perceived red push. I calibrated per Michaels post. I went with calibrating on ColorG 01. Now I'm thinking I should have calibrated on 00 like Michael originally posted. Though that doesnt seem like that is right. I say perceived because after a couple of hours of messing with it I'm not sure.

Any suggestions?

I had red push when colorg was set at 00-set it at 01-still didn't look right-set it back to 00 an turned my color down from 50 to 43 --all is well

So now you have me thinking... :)

I did the optics cleaning a few months ago, so I was wondering how long it took you for the lens hood and Duvetyne lining.

Not too long. I just roughly measured the the area around the lenses, basically the bottom of the inside, and cut like 4 pieces, covering the wood and metal.

Then I just followed the instructions here for the lens hood, found a piece of cardboard big enough, did some measurements, and used a box cutter. It fit in there very snug and I can't see it moving, so I think it's good. I made mine about 8" tall. The only extra thing I could see doing that I didn't, is try making a few extra pieces of cardboard for the sides of the lenses also. I still notice a small reflection on super black images, and think the extra lens hood around the sides would help. But I'm satisfied enough to not take the screen off and do that right now, maybe next year when I do a cleaning again.

Between the cleaning and the mods, it took me a few hours. With the prerequisite sitting and staring at the issue for awhile/breaks/reveling in my handy-work, of course. ;)

I tried everything to get that Red push out. Nothing worked. I ended up going back to my original settings. They have awesome fleshtones but not the super pop of the colors after I tweaked the Decoder. Still the red was not going to work.

I'm looking for advice. My Decoders blue has boxes that are visible, as well as red. Green is pretty close. If I get the boxes to blend together,especially red, then the red push is there. Its less if I do the colr bars on 00 and then switch it to 01 but still there. Then thats a waste because the red bars are out again if you check them.

My HIt is great because you dont need filters but I dont know why theres this push if the bars are looking good.

Does anyone know what this 601 vs. 702 Decoder thing is mentioned in DVE?

I'm still going to tweak it but I'm looking for others that have doen this and figured it out. Thanks Badbird I will probably give that a try but I'm wondering if I do that if it wouldn't just throw the color bars off again. Thats where I'm at now.

Not too long. I just roughly measured the the area around the lenses, basically the bottom of the inside, and cut like 4 pieces, covering the wood and metal.

Then I just followed the instructions here for the lens hood, found a piece of cardboard big enough, did some measurements, and used a box cutter. It fit in there very snug and I can't see it moving, so I think it's good. I made mine about 8" tall. The only extra thing I could see doing that I didn't, is try making a few extra pieces of cardboard for the sides of the lenses also. I still notice a small reflection on super black images, and think the extra lens hood around the sides would help. But I'm satisfied enough to not take the screen off and do that right now, maybe next year when I do a cleaning again.

Between the cleaning and the mods, it took me a few hours. With the prerequisite sitting and staring at the issue for awhile/breaks/reveling in my handy-work, of course. ;)

:D

I found when doing the color decoder adjustment that the CBCR adjustments -- GY-PH-CBCR, G/BGA-CBCR-STD, RY-PH-CBCR, R/BGA-CBCR-STD -- only worked on the HDMI signal. For component select the same adjustments, just use YPBR. For me this was easily accomplished by alternatively using the HDMI & component outputs of my X2 HDDVD player.

Mustang68, if you haven't already done so, try pausing the DVD player when using the color bar patterns. Instead of getting the flashing boxes to disappear, concentrate on getting the top and bottom rectangles to match.

I found when doing the color decoder adjustment that the CBCR adjustments -- GY-PH-CBCR, G/BGA-CBCR-STD, RY-PH-CBCR, R/BGA-CBCR-STD -- only worked on the HDMI signal. For component select the same adjustments, just use YPBR. For me this was easily accomplished by alternatively using the HDMI & component outputs of my X2 HDDVD player.

Mustang68, if you haven't already done so, try pausing the DVD player when using the color bar patterns. Instead of getting the flashing boxes to disappear, concentrate on getting the top and bottom rectangles to match.

I run HDMI (switcher) only so hopefully that isn't the problem. My DVE disk doesnt have the flashing boxes like AVIA but I think it will work the same. I noticed that the top and bottom rectangles seem to be the ones that show up a little or dissappear altogether. They seem a little independent of the others but connected to each other somehow.

When you say match do you mean blend into the background or match each other? I tried the color on the up front menu to 43 but that didn't do it either. I've put in a couple of hours trying to get my color decoder set and still my old settings work best. I just dont have that magnificent color I have seen on other sets. Red is just overwhelming everything no matter what. I know its a tweak because nothing my TV has done would suggest a more serious problem.

Really my set is very nice already and DVE helped on my black level and contrast settings. I really bought it for the color adjustments though.

also is there any other tweaks that I could have done that is effecting my Decoding. I cant think how. If you align the colors then you should be OK. I have done that and still the red push is just too strong.

What you are matching is white to red, and any other colors that you see showing up as red when only the red gun is on. The same principal goes for blue and green.

I tried everything to get that Red push out. Nothing worked. I ended up going back to my original settings. They have awesome fleshtones but not the super pop of the colors after I tweaked the Decoder. Still the red was not going to work.

I'm looking for advice. My Decoders blue has boxes that are visible, as well as red. Green is pretty close. If I get the boxes to blend together,especially red, then the red push is there. Its less if I do the colr bars on 00 and then switch it to 01 but still there. Then thats a waste because the red bars are out again if you check them.

My HIt is great because you dont need filters but I dont know why theres this push if the bars are looking good.

Does anyone know what this 601 vs. 702 Decoder thing is mentioned in DVE?

I'm still going to tweak it but I'm looking for others that have doen this and figured it out. Thanks Badbird I will probably give that a try but I'm wondering if I do that if it wouldn't just throw the color bars off again. Thats where I'm at now.

To get any closer on your colors, you will need to have the grayscale calibrated first. Otherwise, you have no idea how red is acting at the stimulus level you are viewing the color patterns at.

Thanks Lee now I understand at least why I'm not able to get everything dialed in. Theres a section in the DVE disk that discusses Grayscale but I don't know. I've always heard that Grayscale is something best left to pros.

If anyone knows an easy way to adjust grayscale let me know. I will research the thread as well.

I found when doing the color decoder adjustment that the CBCR adjustments -- GY-PH-CBCR, G/BGA-CBCR-STD, RY-PH-CBCR, R/BGA-CBCR-STD -- only worked on the HDMI signal. For component select the same adjustments, just use YPBR. For me this was easily accomplished by alternatively using the HDMI & component outputs of my X2 HDDVD player.

Mustang68, if you haven't already done so, try pausing the DVD player when using the color bar patterns. Instead of getting the flashing boxes to disappear, concentrate on getting the top and bottom rectangles to match.

Well, well, well... This is definitely a horse of a different color. (no pun intended) I have an OPPO DVD player hooked up via a DVI to HDMI cable. Many months ago I adjusted the color decoder using the GY-PH-CBCR, G/BGA-CBCR-STD, RY-PH-CBCR, R/BGA-CBCR-STD totally ignoring my Sony DVD player which is hooked up via component. (and seldom used) I discovered a couple of hours ago that the CBCR controls in the service menu adjust component and HDMI. The problem with that is when I checked the decoder against my Sony player the color was way off. So I adjusted the decoder to match the Sony. Now the OPPO is way off. I couldn't tell that the PBPR adjustments did anything with component or HDMI. I also have a Samsung 260 (component connection) that appears to look better with the same decoder settings that I have with the Sony.

I'm thinking I will probably have to go back to component with the OPPO if I can't figure this out.

Well, well, well... This is definitely a horse of a different color. (no pun intended) I have an OPPO DVD player hooked up via a DVI to HDMI cable. Many months ago I adjusted the color decoder using the GY-PH-CBCR, G/BGA-CBCR-STD, RY-PH-CBCR, R/BGA-CBCR-STD totally ignoring my Sony DVD player which is hooked up via component. (and seldom used) I discovered a couple of hours ago that the CBCR controls in the service menu adjust component and HDMI. The problem with that is when I checked the decoder against my Sony player the color was way off. So I adjusted the decoder to match the Sony. Now the OPPO is way off. I couldn't tell that the PBPR adjustments did anything with component or HDMI. I also have a Samsung 260 (component connection) that appears to look better with the same decoder settings that I have with the Sony.

I'm thinking I will probably have to go back to component with the OPPO if I can't figure this out.

Yea I'm a little dissappointed and confused. My set is looking incredible and all I needed was the Decoder to put me over the top. Now I'm having a hard time getting there.

Thats one reason I like my switcher. Everything is HDMI. No worries about which input. Its all #1 input w/HDMI.:confused::confused:

The only extra thing I could see doing that I didn't, is try making a few extra pieces of cardboard for the sides of the lenses also. I still notice a small reflection on super black images, and think the extra lens hood around the sides would help.

I used flat black electrical tape. Couldn't have been easier.
Michael

I used flat black electrical tape. Couldn't have been easier.
Michael

Out of curiosity, did you have the same problems that I am experiencing with the Decoder. If so how did you resolve it. The instructions you posted work great. I just can't get mine dialed in. Lee Bailey told me I have to get grayscale in line first. I'm not familiar with that process yet. :confused:

Yea I'm a little dissappointed and confused. My set is looking incredible and all I needed was the Decoder to put me over the top. Now I'm having a hard time getting there.

You may already be there. There are limits to what hobbyists like you and me can do without professional help (some of us need professional help more than others, but I digress). This was the pattern from DVE I found most helpful. It's on both sides.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/558/cmcapture1xq5.jpg

As I've said, I couldn't get the red even close without changing COLORG to 00, and, as Bob recommended, I've left it there. If you continue to have trouble, you may need to play with the COLOR and or TINT controls in the user menu. I just set mine in the middle and "calibrated" the set to that point. Your set may be starting out in a different place, which is the whole point to calibrating, anyway.

Okay, your next post came while I was putting this together, so here goes:

The test patterns with Jennifer give you a grey scale:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9190/dvejenniferec0.jpg

I wouldn't dare recommend playing with that, and I doubt you'll find anything here to try, but if you see that the grey boxes are obviously tinted, then you know you have a problem. Yes, I really did risk touching the "screen" pots, but I don't recommend that to anyone. Really.

BTW, these are screen captures on my computer, not screenshots, which I still can't get right to save my life. So you're not the only one going nuts. And I still have a green blob, but it's better since my lens stiping.

But if what you have "is looking incredible," then you probably aren't too far off.

And remember, this is supposed to be fun.:)
Michael

Thanks! Don't get me wrong I love playing around with the set, though my family thinks I'm certifiable. Ok well its good to know that its not the end of the world if I dont get the reds lined up. I'm a little off on the blues. Just so slightly. Would you recommend getting that perfect and just leaving the red alone. Green is almost always good.

Find a channel on your set that is in black and white--mine had a red tint -I adjusted my grayscale-it is not perfect,but it is alot better than it was-black and white looks like it should-no red tint--If you adjust your white balance-write down your factory settings-also if you adjust the white balance high-it can change the look of white balance std. I adjusted all three.Like everyone says- all sets are different.I tried the settings of a set that had been calibrated by a pro-it looked horrible on my set.

Thanks! Don't get me wrong I love playing around with the set, though my family thinks I'm certifiable. Ok well its good to know that its not the end of the world if I dont get the reds lined up. I'm a little off on the blues. Just so slightly. Would you recommend getting that perfect and just leaving the red alone. Green is almost always good.

We are certifiable.
So?
:)
I would recommend whatever it takes to get Jennifer to look like a fair-skinned redhead, not sunburned with neon lipstick.

I adjusted my grayscale-it is not perfect,but it is alot better than it was-black and white looks like it should-no red tint--If you adjust your white balance-write down your factory settings-also if you adjust the white balance high-it can change the look of white balance std. I adjusted all three.

Okay, I'll bite:
HOW?

I don't know-I watch mine on std. I had tweaked std and med and was done--later(a few weeks) I wasn't happy with the way it looked-I left std and med alone and decreased red and increased green in high- I no longer have a red push issue and black and white programs look right.????

Hey Folks - apologies if this post is in the wrong section - it seemed most appropriate.

I have been surfing these forums for ages, but have never had a question to pose, to which I could not already find the answer - expect this - which I am sure is already on here 100x over - so please bare with me.

I have a 51F59, and do minor, minor tweaks, predominantely to the overscan and color.

I have noticed of late that the the picture is curved downwards at the top, and cannot find an adjustment for this?! I would normally refer to this as a pincushion issue on the horizontal, which arcs upwards in the middle of the screen.

I am sure this is a simple tweak, as they have the trap and other adjustments, I just can't find this one!!

Any clues? Where is this hiding? I feel like I am missing what should be obvious.

The best I can describe it as, is that the picture looks like a small rainbow in it's arc towards the top middle.. very slight.. but clearly exists when you see a straight bar across the top of the screen.

Thanks in advance for your HELP!

Cheers!

I don't know-I watch mine on std. I had tweaked std and med and was done--later(a few weeks) I wasn't happy with the way it looked-I left std and med alone and decreased red and increased green in high- I no longer have a red push issue and black and white programs look right.????

Red push and grayscale are 2 totally different things. You can have perfect graysale and still be enduring horrendous red push/blue-green diminish.

Red push only appears when color is present. It is not there in b/w. Grayscale is purely and ONLY b/w.


Mr Bob

Hey Folks - apologies if this post is in the wrong section - it seemed most appropriate.

I have been surfing these forums for ages, but have never had a question to pose, to which I could not already find the answer - expect this - which I am sure is already on here 100x over - so please bare with me.

I have a 51F59, and do minor, minor tweaks, predominantely to the overscan and color.

I have noticed of late that the the picture is curved downwards at the top, and cannot find an adjustment for this?! I would normally refer to this as a pincushion issue on the horizontal, which arcs upwards in the middle of the screen.

I am sure this is a simple tweak, as they have the trap and other adjustments, I just can't find this one!!

Any clues? Where is this hiding? I feel like I am missing what should be obvious.

The best I can describe it as, is that the picture looks like a small rainbow in it's arc towards the top middle.. very slight.. but clearly exists when you see a straight bar across the top of the screen.

Thanks in advance for your HELP!

Cheers!

Hit's don't use trap or pinc or linearity registers, like others do. They use 3 levels of point sys only, aside from sizing.

You will need the svc man'l to get to those, unless you already in when doing the overscan. Which is NOT a minor tweak, IMHO.

DO NOT do the master conv reset, where you turn the set off and when you turn it on again all corrections from the factory have vaporized. Use the 2 other ones, the coarse and the fine point sys. Leave the third level ALONE!

:eek:

You may need the coarse, or you may get away with just using the fine. I would go with the fine first, and see if that's enough.


Mr Bob

You will need the svc man'l to get to those, unless you already in when doing the overscan. Which is NOT a minor tweak, IMHO.

DO NOT do the master conv reset, where you turn the set off and when you turn it on again all corrections from the factory have vaporized. Use the 2 other ones, the coarse and the fine point sys. Leave the third level ALONE!

:eek:

You may need the coarse, or you may get away with just using the fine. I would go with the fine first, and see if that's enough.


Mr Bob


Thanks Mr Bob! I do understand the reprecussions of adjusting the oversan (which was only adjusted by a couple of points - and would still be considered in the 'acceptable range' - for those who consider any changes acceptable.

As I do have access to the service menu, is the service manual available online? Where would I find the 'fine' adjustment? is there a typical acronym/word used to describe this?

Thanks for all your help!

Ok..on the material in the beginning of DVE with the lady and man eating at the restaurant. My setting now dont pop with color. NOt dull but not bright. The flesh has some red in it but tan and a real fleshtone to it. Anytime I move blue or red in the Decoder I get the problem of to much red tint. Not natural but that funky hue I'm sure every one has seen before.

As the week goes on I'm going to do very minor tweaks to find that breaking point before it goes over to the Red side. Before I do that I want to be sure that I haven't missed something. I have done minor tweaks to other settings as done by others here. Are there any known settings that would skewer the Decoder where I would be having this much of a problem getting it right? That is other than the actual Color STD, Tint STD, ect....

Red push and grayscale are 2 totally different things. You can have perfect graysale and still be enduring horrendous red push/blue-green diminish.

Red push only appears when color is present. It is not there in b/w. Grayscale is purely and ONLY b/w.


Mr Bob Thanks Mr Bob-whatever I did,I am happy with the results now.What was causing me to get a red tint on black and white programs? Not the people but background(walls,rocks,sides of buildings,etc.)Like I said I am very happy with the picture now-no red push and black and white shows look like they are supposed too.(Not that I watch that much black & white)

What was causing me to get a red tint on black and white programs?

Bad grayscale. Tho I have seen some b/w programs broadcast in off colors, not true b/w.

If you are using component, disco the Pb and Pr and you'll have empirical b/w from your Y only. It should be the color of a dull, cloudy day.


Mr Bob

Red push and grayscale are 2 totally different things. You can have perfect graysale and still be enduring horrendous red push/blue-green diminish.

Red push only appears when color is present. It is not there in b/w. Grayscale is purely and ONLY b/w.


Mr Bob

But, when the greyscale has a predominate red in it (when it has not been calibrated), it will have a bearing on the amount that you'll see when you turn on the color. Greyscale is still created by the red, blue, and green guns. The phosphors don't become gray when the color control is turned off. So, why are you saying that red push only appears when color is present?

But, when the greyscale has a predominate red in it (when it has not been calibrated), it will have a bearing on the amount that you'll see when you turn on the color. Greyscale is still created by the red, blue, and green guns. The phosphors don't become gray when the color control is turned off. So, why are you saying that red push only appears when color is present?

Red push is a factor of color decoding. An all green graphic saying MUTE needs to have the red and blue having MUTE in black, in the same position. If they had red and/or blue there, it would say MUTE in white or cyan or yellow. To have green only, red and blue must be TOTALLY out of the equation, not just in the background. They must be black.

Grayscale is a different animal. You can't get accurate colorations without the grayscale being on, right, but you can't get correct grayscale with color on the screen either, as in either case the one will adversely affect the other. The grayscale needs to be done to accuracy first, then the color decoding. If they have interacted with each other during the decoding alignment, it might be necessary to redo them again independently. The second time is usually the charm then, since there's very little interaction going on after that.

Just turning the color level down all the way sometimes does the job, sometimes not. On an older Mit, you couldn't turn it down far enough, there was always some color left in the pic even at absolute minimum. On present day Mits HDready CRT, you can turn it down all the way and have perfect gray. Not so with Tosh. If you turn a Tosh HDready down all the way in sm for the purpose of doing grayscale, the screen will go a bright Kryptonite green. So getting gray to use for grayscale alignment is not always easy.

With component you can get empirical gray by just using the Y only, whereas with HDMI or RGB or composite, you can't isolate the luminance from the chrominance the same way. With S you can actually disable the chrominance leg and get perfect b/w with only the luminance leg, just like with just the Y on component. Found that out once years ago when I tried to seat an S plug by pushing and THEN turning. All of a sudden I had b/w. Looked at it, found I had broken off the chrominance leg!

Hope I've answered your ?


Mr Bob

Greetings folks...

I just purchased an Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver. I am going to hook it up to my Hitachi via the optical audio ports. Will this allow me to get audio from my DVD player?

I have the DVD player hooked up via HDMI for video.

Thanks!

Greetings folks...

I just purchased an Onkyo TX-SR304 receiver. I am going to hook it up to my Hitachi via the optical audio ports. Will this allow me to get audio from my DVD player?

I have the DVD player hooked up via HDMI for video.

Thanks!

No. The optical is out only, for sound from the TV to your receiver, for OTA (over the air) broadcasts. You're better off using it to get optical out from the DVD player to your receiver.

Wow! great post on the Grayscale issue. I guess I need to figure the best way on my Hit to check the grayscale and go from there. My PQ is good. I just hate to see those colors not at their best.

Red push is a factor of color decoding. An all green graphic saying MUTE needs to have the red and blue having MUTE in black, in the same position. If they had red and/or blue there, it would say MUTE in white or cyan or yellow. To have green only, red and blue must be TOTALLY out of the equation, not just in the background. They must be black.

Grayscale is a different animal. You can't get accurate colorations without the grayscale being on, right, but you can't get correct grayscale with color on the screen either, as in either case the one will adversely affect the other. The grayscale needs to be done to accuracy first, then the color decoding. If they have interacted with each other during the decoding alignment, it might be necessary to redo them again independently. The second time is usually the charm then, since there's very little interaction going on after that.

Just turning the color level down all the way sometimes does the job, sometimes not. On an older Mit, you couldn't turn it down far enough, there was always some color left in the pic even at absolute minimum. On present day Mits HDready CRT, you can turn it down all the way and have perfect gray. Not so with Tosh. If you turn a Tosh HDready down all the way in sm for the purpose of doing grayscale, the screen will go a bright Kryptonite green. So getting gray to use for grayscale alignment is not always easy.

With component you can get empirical gray by just using the Y only, whereas with HDMI or RGB or composite, you can't isolate the luminance from the chrominance the same way. With S you can actually disable the chrominance leg and get perfect b/w with only the luminance leg, just like with just the Y on component. Found that out once years ago when I tried to seat an S plug by pushing and THEN turning. All of a sudden I had b/w. Looked at it, found I had broken off the chrominance leg!

Hope I've answered your ?


Mr Bob

Yes, I'd say!

One thing I'm going to do soon is look through the service menu manual and see if I can determine what features can be turned off. Things like the Colorg, that with more research we find we don't need. Especially since we have access to the color decoder. Has anyone done anything like this? I'm imagining it can only lead to a better picture if done right. The least amount of processing done to the signal the better, especially when the processing is not done well.

One thing I'm going to do soon is look through the service menu manual and see if I can determine what features can be turned off. Things like the Colorg, that with more research we find we don't need. Especially since we have access to the color decoder. Has anyone done anything like this? I'm imagining it can only lead to a better picture if done right. The least amount of processing done to the signal the better, especially when the processing is not done well.

Are you still running ColorG 01 or have you gone back to 00? I believe others have tweaked the decoder and have it back to 00. I simply can't do that without that red push. Not terrible push but enough to drive me crazy. I'm checking Grayscale tonight.

I just turned color all the way down and watched a program on Sat HD. I could pick out the red items in the pic but no other colors. When I turned color back up the items that looked red were bright red items. Does this sound like my grayscale is off??

I just PM Lee Bailey on this too. I really would love to get your take Mr. Bob!!

Are you still running ColorG 01 or have you gone back to 00? I believe others have tweaked the decoder and have it back to 00. I simply can't do that without that red push. Not terrible push but enough to drive me crazy. I'm checking Grayscale tonight.

I turned my ColorG to 1 so that it's off. I then turned red down in the color decoder. I turned it downby one notch on my grayscale as well. I have a program and a sensor to measure my grayscale but I haven't been able to do it as I've been busy lately. My adjustments by eye look great. I would recommend turning ColorG to 0 and then adjusting the red in the color decoder and seeing what you think. Red push is definitely a color decoder thing. Write down your settings and adjust away.

Another thing I am chomping at the bit to do is adjust my focus, convergence and astigmatism using binocs. I imagine that's the best way to get assharp a picture as possible. I really am eager to do this, I plan on getting some binocs and doing it before the weekend s over.

Another thing I am chomping at the bit to do is adjust my focus, convergence and astigmatism using binocs. I imagine that's the best way to get assharp a picture as possible. I really am eager to do this, I plan on getting some binocs and doing it before the weekend s over.

Your going above my payscale on that. My convergence looks real good. I need to do more research into focus.

The good news is that I went over every setting last night using DVE (again). I made tweaks to brightness, contrast ect... DVE explains grayscale but doesnt tell you how to do anything with it. My gray test patterns were good anyway with no tinting.

I then went into the Decoder. After some serious time spent changing values a little at a time I am happy to report I am happy with my colors. My blues bars were off so I of course adjusted there first. I was able to get them perfect. Green was already perfect. I then painstakingly went thru red. Now my reds do not blend into the base background but I have them all an even 2 shades darker. All the boxes in red match each other with blue and green properly blended. I had to do this in ColorG 01. I couldn't get there with 00 last night, though I might try again after a couple of days.

I guess I'm looking to see if this is something others have settled on or am I still off base. The colors in the pic are so much more vivid than before. I switched to my old settings and they looked dull. My old settings had excellent flesh tones but at the expense of all other colors

Lordcloud, I will be very interested in how it goes on your attempts this weekend. I'm always looking for more sharpness without adding noise and extra info to the Pic. I'm planning to get my Sammy LCD buddy over soon to ambush him with my set and its PQ. Show him the difference in the old out of date (hum,hum) technology and his new expensive, barley adjustable tech set.

.:):confused::eek::mad::cool::p;):D:o:(

One thing I'm going to do soon is look through the service menu manual and see if I can determine what features can be turned off. Things like the Colorg, that with more research we find we don't need. Especially since we have access to the color decoder. Has anyone done anything like this? I'm imagining it can only lead to a better picture if done right. The least amount of processing done to the signal the better, especially when the processing is not done well.


The processing chips are engaged at all times, in all sorts of ways. You can't just turn off parts of them, and really, you can't turn them off at all. I agree that the least amount of processing is best if it's switchable. If not - as in this case - the best and most highly aligned processing is what works best.


Mr Bob

I then went into the Decoder. After some serious time spent changing values a little at a time I am happy to report I am happy with my colors. My blues bars were off so I of course adjusted there first. I was able to get them perfect. Green was already perfect. I then painstakingly went thru red. Now my reds do not blend into the base background but I have them all an even 2 shades darker. All the boxes in red match each other with blue and green properly blended. I had to do this in ColorG 01. I couldn't get there with 00 last night, though I might try again after a couple of days.

I guess I'm looking to see if this is something others have settled on or am I still off base. The colors in the pic are so much more vivid than before. I switched to my old settings and they looked dull. My old settings had excellent flesh tones but at the expense of all other colors




00 doesn't always mean least amount of something. 01 seems to be the setting that turns colorg off. And that has the least amount of red push, from all reports? - sorry, can't confirm, don't own one and am not cal'ing one right now.

But if 01 is the setting that delivers the LEAST amount of red push, then it delivers the MOST amount of blue and green. And if it gets the boxes in the color bars to co-operate correctly, is the correct setting, not 00. If 00 is what does this, then 00 is correct.

You want to get as close to non-red push as you can via colorg before you start realigning the decoding, with the individual color registers. You don't need to be having different sets of registers fighting each other, in there. Make it as effortless as possible, from the outset, just like coarse conv vs. fine conv. Always get coarse conv as close to ON as possible, before going to fine conv, which can then be used primarily for mop-up.


Yes, once linear, the color decoding delivers popping colors with fleshtones correct, that red push just can't deliver. With red push the rest of the colors get wilted once the fleshtones are correct.

I have been saying for years that "Red push is the same as blue-green diminish", and I think you just confirmed on that!


;)


Mr Bob

Another thing I am chomping at the bit to do is adjust my focus, convergence and astigmatism using binocs. I imagine that's the best way to get assharp a picture as possible. I really am eager to do this, I plan on getting some binocs and doing it before the weekend s over.

I have never used binocs for this purpose except when doing the 20' wide frosted screen rear pj'd triple-gun Barco sys in their 500 seat amphiteater at Raychem, years ago. I watched Craig Miller use them on one of his Mit RPTV cals, sure it works.

But it's definitely not necessary.

What's necessary is to view your pic from straight out, which you CAN do when sitting up close and personal with your screen - I sit about 2-3' away, when doing the fine tuning - but that can be done by moving your eyes - your head - around to different placements as you do the conv.

I look pretty dorky when I do this, sitting 2-3' away from the owner's set - I am sure it is quite entertaining - but I see NO need for binocs.


Mr Bob

00 doesn't always mean least amount of something. 01 seems to be the setting that turns colorg off. And that has the least amount of red push, from all reports? - sorry, can't confirm, don't own one and am not cal'ing one right now.

But if 01 is the setting that delivers the LEAST amount of red push, then it delivers the MOST amount of blue and green. And if it gets the boxes in the color bars to co-operate correctly, is the correct setting, not 00. If 00 is what does this, then 00 is correct.

You want to get as close to non-red push as you can via colorg before you start realigning the decoding, with the individual color registers. You don't need to be having different sets of registers fighting each other, in there. Make it as effortless as possible, from the outset, just like coarse conv vs. fine conv. Always get coarse conv as close to ON as possible, before going to fine conv, which can then be used primarily for mop-up.


Yes, once linear, the color decoding delivers popping colors with fleshtones correct, that red push just can't deliver. With red push the rest of the colors get wilted once the fleshtones are correct.

I have been saying for years that "Red push is the same as blue-green diminish", and I think you just confirmed on that!


;)


Mr Bob

That makes a lot of sense. I need to go back and look at everything again. I quite messing with it at about 9pm and it looked good. I had Color-std and Tint -std turned way down originaly to get the red push out and the fleshtones I wanted. That resulted in a nice but muted colors PQ.

Now with the decoder blue/grn alinged and red set, at least the same in each box, my colors pop and red is less. My red is still stronger than before but I think its closer to what it should be. I believe that this tweaking I had to go through definetly supports red push/grn blu diminish. Why else with red pushing would my other colors look duller. I'm not done yet but I am so close to getting the decoder as good as I can.

My colors still dont have your range but their a world better than before. If you go through TX I already started a Mr. Bob fund to get ready. Only problem with that is all my tweaks would probably get flushed so you could do it right. ;):)

That makes a lot of sense. I need to go back and look at everything again. I quite messing with it at about 9pm and it looked good. I had Color-std and Tint -std turned way down originaly to get the red push out and the fleshtones I wanted. That resulted in a nice but muted colors PQ.

Now with the decoder blue/grn alinged and red set, at least the same in each box, my colors pop and red is less. My red is still stronger than before but I think its closer to what it should be. I believe that this tweaking I had to go through definetly supports red push/grn blu diminish. Why else with red pushing would my other colors look duller. I'm not done yet but I am so close to getting the decoder as good as I can.

My colors still dont have your range but their a world better than before. If you go through TX I already started a Mr. Bob fund to get ready. Only problem with that is all my tweaks would probably get flushed so you could do it right. ;):)

Remember that each scanrate has its own set of color decoder settings in there. Once DVD is right, then HD beckons.

And you need the color bars to do it, in any scanrate.

Formerly HD pattern generators - or DVHS - were the only way to get color bars up there for this purpose. It still serves me excellently to use my Accupel in HD calibrations.

But with HD disc players now affordable and Joe Kane making DVE available in HD disc formats, the correct patterns can now be played onto your screen that way, for realignment.


BTW, I would love to come to TX again. Just send me the plane ticket, and/or get some fellow afficianados together and do it.

;)

Yeah, too bad about what would happen to your settings once I get thru with them...

:D



Mr Bob

T If you go through TX I already started a Mr. Bob fund to get ready. Only problem with that is all my tweaks would probably get flushed so you could do it right. ;):)

Hey I'm in San Antonio, and know some people that could benefit from a 2-3 day south Texas Mr. Bob Tour. How About it Mr. Bob?

The Mr. Bob Fund sounds good to me. I wouldn't mind my tweaks "improved" even if they are completely changed.:eek:

00 doesn't always mean least amount of something. 01 seems to be the setting that turns colorg off. And that has the least amount of red push, from all reports? - sorry, can't confirm, don't own one and am not cal'ing one right now.

But if 01 is the setting that delivers the LEAST amount of red push, then it delivers the MOST amount of blue and green. And if it gets the boxes in the color bars to co-operate correctly, is the correct setting, not 00. If 00 is what does this, then 00 is correct.

You want to get as close to non-red push as you can via colorg before you start realigning the decoding, with the individual color registers. You don't need to be having different sets of registers fighting each other, in there. Make it as effortless as possible, from the outset, just like coarse conv vs. fine conv. Always get coarse conv as close to ON as possible, before going to fine conv, which can then be used primarily for mop-up.


Yes, once linear, the color decoding delivers popping colors with fleshtones correct, that red push just can't deliver. With red push the rest of the colors get wilted once the fleshtones are correct.

I have been saying for years that "Red push is the same as blue-green diminish", and I think you just confirmed on that!


;)


Mr Bob

Per the manual, COLORG is:
Color Gamma Correction Point
Settings:
00: OFF
01:0.23 Vpp
02:0.37 Vpp
03:0.52 Vpp

I leave mine at 01. I will check tonight to see if red increases or decrease if I use 02 or 03.

I FOUND 00-01 had a more dramtic change than 02 or 03.

Has anyone experienced where after calibrating and getting the Decoder right that sharpness isn't needed very much? Its almost as sharp at 0 than when you increase the setting. Is this something others have noticed or are my eyes decieving me?

I FOUND 00-01 had a more dramtic change than 02 or 03.

Has anyone experienced where after calibrating and getting the Decoder right that sharpness isn't needed very much? Its almost as sharp at 0 than when you increase the setting. Is this something others have noticed or are my eyes decieving me?

00-01 definitely is a more significant change than above that. I haven't tried to adjust my sharpness yet. I looked at binoculars today, holy sh!t they cost for a nice pair. So I got one of the little reading things for like $4, we'll see if that works tomorrow night. While I'm sure you don't need them to get convergence right, I imagine they are the best way to get t done, especially focus and astigmatism. I'll let you guys know my findings.

Hey I'm in San Antonio, and know some people that could benefit from a 2-3 day south Texas Mr. Bob Tour. How About it Mr. Bob?

The Mr. Bob Fund sounds good to me. I wouldn't mind my tweaks "improved" even if they are completely changed.:eek:

I'm up for it. I am flying to the Twin Cities at the end of the month and some guys in Chicago want to blend with that tour, so it may be awhile. And I am not free the next few Saturdays in the meantime, tho we could do something midweek.

But yeah, get it together and I will come!


Mr Bob

I FOUND 00-01 had a more dramtic change than 02 or 03.

Has anyone experienced where after calibrating and getting the Decoder right that sharpness isn't needed very much? Its almost as sharp at 0 than when you increase the setting. Is this something others have noticed or are my eyes decieving me?

The least amount of ee - edge enhancement - is usually with sharpness at midpoint. Above that and you get ee. Below that you get video dulling, for smoothing out graininess. More or less for different sets, but know that sharpness is false edging. I don't go for NO sharpness or ee, but the better you have your set focused and converged, the less you need the sharpness enhancement features.


Mr Bob

I am flying to the Twin Cities at the end of the month
Mr Bob

Sent you a PM.

The least amount of ee - edge enhancement - is usually with sharpness at midpoint. Above that and you get ee. Below that you get video dulling, for smoothing out graininess. More or less for different sets, but know that sharpness is false edging. I don't go for NO sharpness or ee, but the better you have your set focused and converged, the less you need the sharpness enhancement features.


Mr Bob

I am giving my eyes a rest until tomorrow. Then I am going to revisit the sharpness issue. Last night the movie Spy Game was on one of the HD channels. This channel is usually grainy but isn't now. The colors rocked and the detail was great. I had sharpness off/0. Even in the DVE test patterns I have a hard time getting ringing when I adjust the set up in sharpness.

Maybe my sharpness is out of whack. I'll know more when I really look at it Saturday night on several different feeds, including HD DVD.

What settings will affect sharpness.
I have these changes
YTDL-09
SRTGA-02
STAG1-06
Sharp HDTV-1c (factory)

Any suggestions?

I am flying to the Twin Cities at the end of the month and some guys in Chicago want to blend with that tour, so it may be awhile.

Mr Bob

Any chance you might make it down to Peoria IL after Chicago?

I am giving my eyes a rest until tomorrow. Then I am going to revisit the sharpness issue. Last night the movie Spy Game was on one of the HD channels. This channel is usually grainy but isn't now. The colors rocked and the detail was great. I had sharpness off/0. Even in the DVE test patterns I have a hard time getting ringing when I adjust the set up in sharpness.

Maybe my sharpness is out of whack. I'll know more when I really look at it Saturday night on several different feeds, including HD DVD.

What settings will affect sharpness.
I have these changes
YTDL-09
SRTGA-02
STAG1-06
Sharp HDTV-1c (factory)

Any suggestions?

I have my YTDL at 09 as well, anything above or below that and the sharpness pattern on the AVIA disc starts to distort left or right. I believe SRTGA should be at 00 anything above that and I think it adds false sharpness.

Any chance you might make it down to Peoria IL after Chicago?


Would be glad to entertain all possibilities.

The guys in Chicago have not contacted me yet, tho.


Mr Bob

I'm up for it. I am flying to the Twin Cities at the end of the month and some guys in Chicago want to blend with that tour, so it may be awhile. And I am not free the next few Saturdays in the meantime, tho we could do something midweek.

But yeah, get it together and I will come!


Mr Bob

Im in the Twin Cities Bob, what kind of time do you have to work with while up in my neck of the woods?

Im in the Twin Cities Bob, what kind of time do you have to work with while up in my neck of the woods?

My max is about 10 days away from home, tho if the demand were enough I might be able to extend it a bit more.

As of now there's one full week of work, so there's still room if you want in.

Contact me ASAP, as the plane tickets are cheapest when purchased the farthest in advance. I'll put you in touch with the organizer, on the Reply All email ticket.


Mr Bob

Per the manual, COLORG is:
Color Gamma Correction Point
Settings:
00: OFF
01:0.23 Vpp
02:0.37 Vpp
03:0.52 Vpp

I leave mine at 01. I will check tonight to see if red increases or decrease if I use 02 or 03.

What did you find out? Which setting is closest to linear color decoding, meaning with least amount of red push? 00 or 01?

Is colorg OFF - 00 - red pushed, as the factory defaults it OOB?

Or linear, as in NOT red pushed?


Mr Bob

[QUOTE=Mr Bob;13340024]What did you find out? Which setting is closest to linear color decoding, meaning with least amount of red push? 00 or 01?

Is colorg OFF - 00 - red pushed, as the factory defaults it OOB?

Or linear, as in NOT red pushed?


Mr Bob[/QUOTE

From my experience so far 00 is red push. Once you set it to 01 theres a significant reduction in red tint. I dont know how that is accomplished. Hopefully Lee can explain that. :confused:

[QUOTE=Mr Bob;13340024]What did you find out? Which setting is closest to linear color decoding, meaning with least amount of red push? 00 or 01?

Is colorg OFF - 00 - red pushed, as the factory defaults it OOB?

Or linear, as in NOT red pushed?


Mr Bob[/QUOTE

From my experience so far 00 is red push. Once you set it to 01 theres a significant reduction in red tint. I dont know how that is accomplished. Hopefully Lee can explain that. :confused:


Then 01 is where it should be kept. colorg must be for eradicating red push, with red push being the set's natural state, the state it's been designed for. Not too much of a stretch, since several brands - Mit, Hit and Sony for sure - consider it mandatory for attracting their customer base.

If that's enough you're done, and your set is not red pushed anymore. If not enough, then proceed to the fine tuning, for maxing out the linearity of your color decoding.


Mr Bob

[QUOTE=Mustang68;13340101]
Then 01 is where it should be kept. colorg must be for eradicating red push, with red push being the set's natural state, the state it's been designed for. Not too much of a stretch, since several brands - Mit, Hit and Sony for sure - consider it mandatory for attracting their customer base.

If that's enough you're done, and your set is not red pushed anymore. If not enough, then proceed to the fine tuning, for maxing out the linearity of your color decoding.

Mr Bob

I could not get the decoder reds to match at COLORG 01, had to be 00, so that's where I have it.
If your particular set requires COLORG at 01, or 02, or whatever to get the colorbars right, then that's where it belongs.
That's the point, no?
:)
Michael

As I said earlier, it seems to make sense to me to turn it off if you can correct for it in the color decoder. What's the point of extra processing if you can get the picture right without it? If I could get the color bars to match on 00 and 01, I would think you would rather do it on 00. What would be the argument against that?

I could not get the decoder reds to match at COLORG 01, had to be 00, so that's where I have it.
If your particular set requires COLORG at 01, or 02, or whatever to get the colorbars right, then that's where it belongs.
That's the point, no?

Michael


As I said earlier, it seems to make sense to me to turn it off if you can correct for it in the color decoder. What's the point of extra processing if you can get the picture right without it? If I could get the color bars to match on 00 and 01, I would think you would rather do it on 00. What would be the argument against that?

Looks like 01 gets it closer to being off, but not completely, and you can't align it completely in 01, according to Michael. So 01 must be for the regulars.

For purists like us, it has to be fully aligned, and evidently that means in 00.

Fine by me!

;)


Mr Bob

Looks like 01 gets it closer to being off, but not completely, and you can't align it completely in 01, according to Michael. So 01 must be for the regulars.

For purists like us, it has to be fully aligned, and evidently that means in 00.

Fine by me!

;)


Mr Bob

I will try again but I simply could not get it aligned at 00. I tried everything and it would just skewer my other colors and still have red push. As I said before the closest I could get it was blue/grn perfect. Red bars matching but 2 shades darker than the background. My colors rock at this setting.

Can everyone else get all 3 colors perfectly aligned? Or is it the same with red. Makes a difference to me, because either I need to do more work or I have something wrong with my decoder. I spent probably 12 hours or more between several days messing with the color bars.

My colors rock at this setting.

So leave it alone!
Sounds like you're where you want to be. YOU have to be happy, not the decoder.
Enjoy your hard-earned beautiful picture.
Michael

So leave it alone!
Sounds like you're where you want to be. YOU have to be happy, not the decoder.
Enjoy your hard-earned beautiful picture.
Michael


Did you get yours fully aligned in 00, Michael?

The last time I fully aligned one of these Hits, I didn't know about the colorg register, so I didn't alter it from factory. And it aligned up perfectly, on all colors.

What is the factory setting?


Mr Bob

Did you get yours fully aligned in 00, Michael?

The last time I fully aligned one of these Hits, I didn't know about the colorg register, so I didn't alter it from factory. And it aligned up perfectly, on all colors.

What is the factory setting?


Mr Bob

My green's off a little, but red and blue are good, and I'm very happy with the picture. Default is 00; I think Lee was the first to suggest changing it to 01 to deal with the red push.
As I keep saying, I've monkeyed with my set A LOT, so my settings will likely be different from others (those "screen" controls are really, really sensitive).
Which doesn't matter, as long as you go :D when you turn it on!
Michael

My green's off a little, but red and blue are good, and I'm very happy with the picture. Default is 00; I think Lee was the first to suggest changing it to 01 to deal with the red push.
As I keep saying, I've monkeyed with my set A LOT, so my settings will likely be different from others (those "screen" controls are really, really sensitive).
Which doesn't matter, as long as you go :D when you turn it on!
Michael

Screen controls grayscale. If the grayscale is not ON - does not look like the color of a dull, cloudy day - getting the color correct has to wait.

The grayscale is the platform you build your color paradigm on.


Mr Bob

I ran across a site today where you can download a free pdf service manual. I never post here, but greatly appreciate the information I have gained on this site. I don't have enough posts to include url's so I can't give the link, but I can tell you where to go to get it.

It's at vancebaldwin.com. Login as a guest and put in 51f59 under model #. That should bring up the location of the manual pdf.

I apologize in advance if this has already been listed. I tried searching, but there a ton of references to "service manual".

Sorry guys but its not fun being 100% happy. Gotta tweak. I messed with it again last night. I have the bars aligned, including red. The reds seem overly saturated but I'm leaving it there. I tweaked until the fleshtones were good. I think I will leave it there for now and see how I like it. I have learned that I have been watching my TV with muted colors for so long this may be just an adjustment issue for me personally. Either way 00 or 01 I have a great picture so I cant complain.

Now I need a new project for tweaking. Overscan is 5%, Decoder is good, inside of TV is blacked out, top of lenses are cleaned, convergence has always been good under 117 point. Any suggestions?

Screen controls grayscale. If the grayscale is not ON - does not look like the color of a dull, cloudy day - getting the color correct has to wait.

The grayscale is the platform you build your color paradigm on.


Mr Bob

Yup, gray's fine (except for the green blob on the far right I've mentioned before). That's why I've left the green where it is. No problem.

Now I need a new project for tweaking. Overscan is 5%, Decoder is good, inside of TV is blacked out, top of lenses are cleaned, convergence has always been good under 117 point. Any suggestions?

Buy another one and start over?
:)

I have considered buying these up. I dont imagine Hitachi was able to get rid of every one thru retail. Theres a place locally that buys up discontinued models of electronics. I'm going there to see if they have any. I would like one more for personal use and maybe another couple to sale. Just an idea. Should check ebay and Craigslist too.

Now I need a new project for tweaking. Overscan is 5%, Decoder is good, inside of TV is blacked out, top of lenses are cleaned, convergence has always been good under 117 point. Any suggestions?

You have not cleaned the coolant cups yet!?:(

Please perform a factory reset of your TV asap!;)

It's at vancebaldwin.com. Login as a guest and put in 51f59 under model #. That should bring up the location of the manual pdf.

Worked great. And newer than the one I bought (updated 8/23/06). Many thanks, and welcome aboard.

Sorry guys but its not fun being 100% happy. Gotta tweak. I messed with it again last night. I have the bars aligned, including red. The reds seem overly saturated but I'm leaving it there. I tweaked until the fleshtones were good. I think I will leave it there for now and see how I like it. I have learned that I have been watching my TV with muted colors for so long this may be just an adjustment issue for me personally. Either way 00 or 01 I have a great picture so I cant complain.

Now I need a new project for tweaking. Overscan is 5%, Decoder is good, inside of TV is blacked out, top of lenses are cleaned, convergence has always been good under 117 point. Any suggestions?

Focus is what I'm taking on next.

Should check ebay and Craigslist too.

Keep an eye on UEC, too. They had a few last month.
I could think of worse things to collect.
On the other hand, I can think of SMALLER things to collect.:)

Focus is what I'm taking on next.

Not hard. You probably won't even need to get to the lenses, unless you're really out (which you would have noticed long before this) or you're off from side to side and want to get involved with Scheimpfluge.
Use the three pots labeled (oddly enough) "focus." Don't, under any circumstances, touch the ones labeled "screen." Someone once suggested putting tape over them; advice I should have taken.
Put up a convergence or geometry pattern from your favorite disc. The DCAM grid will do in a pinch. Use our friend RGBOUT to get one color at a time. Consensus seems to be that you don't want to focus on the exact center, as you might think, since that would make the sides slightly more out of focus. Pick a spot somewhat off center and focus each color in turn.

I'll keep an eye out on UEC.

Coollant cups, focus....sounds promising!! I have gotten a lot of the noise out of the pic but as we have mentioned here before, this TV does seem prone to it. Mine is probably down to the level most wouldn't notice it but since I have joined you guys on this forum I notice a lot of things i once did not.

I'll keep an eye out on UEC.

Coollant cups, focus....sounds promising!! I have gotten a lot of the noise out of the pic but as we have mentioned here before, this TV does seem prone to it. Mine is probably down to the level most wouldn't notice it but since I have joined you guys on this forum I notice a lot of things i once did not.


Yes, tweaking can become quite addictive!

I ran across a site today where you can download a free pdf service manual. I never post here, but greatly appreciate the information I have gained on this site. I don't have enough posts to include url's so I can't give the link, but I can tell you where to go to get it.

It's at vancebaldwin.com. Login as a guest and put in 51f59 under model #. That should bring up the location of the manual pdf.

I apologize in advance if this has already been listed. I tried searching, but there a ton of references to "service manual".

I must confess that I had found this link some time back. Have even PM'ed several F59ers (usually new folks) with a link to this free manual.

Did'nt post it here & asked those who I PM'ed to not publicize it - as I wasn't sure if VanceBaldwin would pull it (not knowing it was coming up "free").

Don't take this as me being upset for spilling the beans on this, ypsibird. Far from it.

So, anyone w/o a F59 service manual - now you have a free source!!!!

Let's hope they keep this link alive for a while.

so, a while back i posted about how my screen was noticeably blurry on the left most 3 inches all the way up and down. a poster within the first few pages had the same problem and mr. bob suggested that a call to hitachi and a service call would fix the issue. i called hitachi and got a hitachi authorized repair tech to come out to my house today. in addition to my left side of the screen being a little blurry about the left thrid of the screen has a slight yellow tinge and is slightly darker than the rest of the screen, it is only noticeable on a balck and white image or when i am selcting inputs with no current feed to the screen(the menu is discolored slightly). when the tech showed up to my house he looked at my screen and said that the blur was normal and that it was within factory tolerances and he might be able to get it a little clearer at the cost of the center of the screen blurring. he also said that there was nothing he coudl really do about the slight yellow tint and darkness of the left of the screen. all he did was run magic focus and check out the convergence from the user menu. i asked him if he knew of any ISF techs in the area and he said that he didnt. i asked him if he knew of anyone who could calibrate my screen and he gave me a bit of a blank stare. i told him i wanted to get my screen calibrated to fix the overscan. he asked me what overscan was. i was somewhat amazed to say the least that after lurking on this thread for the past 2 months i knew more about this screen than a hitachi rep. so i wasted an hour of my time away formm work to meet him at my house to acheive nothing. i guess im going to have to get my hands dirty myself to get the focus fixed.

mr. bob i ask you, how hard is it to adjust the focus of the left side of the screen, what could be causing the slight yellow tint and slight darkness of the left third, and will i lose any focus in the center of the screen at the expense of greater left side clarity.

mr. bob i ask you, how hard is it to adjust the focus of the left side of the screen, what could be causing the slight yellow tint and slight darkness of the left third, and will i lose any focus in the center of the screen at the expense of greater left side clarity.

Perfect. Swap sets with Mustang68 and you'll both be happy.

You may want to call Hitachi and ask for another service rep, explaining your (understandable) disappointment with the first one. You don't want to settle for "least common denominator" treatment.

The problem on the left side is scheimpfluge, described here:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/scheimpfluge.html
The solution for the tint and darkness is "lens striping."
And yes, with a big CRT there will be some loss of focus, as discussed above. Your "perfect" focal point will be off-center, so the edges will be a little tighter focused than they would be if you focused dead center.

Mr. Bob has very reasonable telephone consultation rates to walk you through most of this stuff. Email him at the address on any of his posts.

Michael

Perfect. Swap sets with Mustang68 and you'll both be happy.

You may want to call Hitachi and ask for another service rep, explaining your (understandable) disappointment with the first one. You don't want to settle for "least common denominator" treatment.

The problem on the left side is scheimpfluge, described here:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/mrbob/scheimpfluge.html
The solution for the tint and darkness is "lens striping."
And yes, with a big CRT there will be some loss of focus, as discussed above. Your "perfect" focal point will be off-center, so the edges will be a little tighter focused than they would be if you focused dead center.

Mr. Bob has very reasonable telephone consultation rates to walk you through most of this stuff. Email him at the address on any of his posts.

Michael

Thanks, Mike, couldn'ta said it better myself -

I have been saying for years that repair techs rarely know anything about the calibration process. I and a small handful of others are the only ones I know about, on the whole continent, who are both repair techs and calibrators.

For him to know no more than how to do the Magic Focus doesn't surprise me at all -


Mr Bob

So, not being able to leave well enough alone, and having a new printout of the service manual, I decided to go through the menu options again. The venerable DIY Service Guide mentions APRTR-NTSC, -SDTV and -HDTV. Defaults of -NTSC and -SDTV are 01 and the suggestion is to change them to 00 to "reduce significant ringing observed around letters and edges." The default for -HDTV is 00. So, of course, I changed it to 01. I noticed improved detail and, with SRTGA at 00 as recommended (default is 10), no ringing at all.
For homework tonight, play around with SRTGA and APRTR-HDTV and let me know what you think.
Michael

well i did a search on this thread for lens striping and read through posts 331 to 360 and feel a little better now. i am going to call hitachi and request that they send a different tech out. it sounds liek what is wrong with my set is i have what jwebb calls a "coolant cutie smudge" in my blue crt gun. will hitachi do anything about my overscan? the bottom fine print(which may be a good thing ;)) on some commercials is cut in half and some logos are cut in half on the left and right sides of the screen. also, should i go into detail with hitachi about lens striping and coolant smudges or just tell them that theres a yellow cast to the left side of my screen that the tech said he coudlnt do anything about? i do not know if there is another hitachi service rep in my state, the one who was at my house said he services all of michigan, which isn't very promising...

well i did a search on this thread for lens striping and read through posts 331 to 360 and feel a little better now. i am going to call hitachi and request that they send a different tech out. it sounds liek what is wrong with my set is i have what jwebb calls a "coolant cutie smudge" in my blue crt gun. will hitachi do anything about my overscan? the bottom fine print(which may be a good thing ;)) on some commercials is cut in half and some logos are cut in half on the left and right sides of the screen. also, should i go into detail with hitachi about lens striping and coolant smudges or just tell them that theres a yellow cast to the left side of my screen that the tech said he coudlnt do anything about? i do not know if there is another hitachi service rep in my state, the one who was at my house said he services all of michigan, which isn't very promising...

I wouldn't expect them to adjust your overscan. I would bet if they used the screen jig, the overscan would be per the Hitachi Spec.

Tell Hitachi what your display is doing, talking to them about lens striping, etc, will just fall on deaf ears. Not to mention warranty issues. Do complain about the tech not being knowledgeable. There are enough pics on this thread to show how good these sets should look.

I wouldn't expect them to adjust your overscan. I would bet if they used the screen jig, the overscan would be per the Hitachi Spec.

Tell Hitachi what your display is doing, talking to them about lens striping, etc, will just fall on deaf ears. Not to mention warranty issues. Do complain about the tech not being knowledgeable. There are enough pics on this thread to show how good these sets should look.

well one thing the tech said when he was at my house thursday was that my colors looked great, considering the source though it doesnt mean a whole lot, lol. but yeah im very pleased with my colors, jus gotta get this lens striping fixed and ill be happy, i think i can live with the focus being a bit off and the overscan isn't a huge deal. it isnt my personal display anyway, it's my dad's. right now im saving for a sharp aquos LC32D43U for myself.

it isnt my personal display anyway, it's my dad's. right now im saving for a sharp aquos LC32D43U for myself.


Why not buy a Hit CRT from UEC, where they refurb Hit's? Bound to be a better investment!


Mr Bob

Why not buy a Hit CRT from UEC, where they refurb Hit's? Bound to be a better investment!


Mr Bob

Because they don't have any. Now, at least.
But if you're patient, they're likely to have a few some day. Check often.
Unless Mustang68 corners the market first.

Why not buy a Hit CRT from UEC, where they refurb Hit's? Bound to be a better investment!


Mr Bob

haha, i couldnt fit it into my bedroom that's why. i have a rather small space as it is and having a tv that big would probably end up having me sleeping on the floor in a corner as opposed to my bed. besides i wouldnt be able to fit the damned thing in the door and to get a hit CRT that is 720p native would mean i would have to get the 57f59 or above, right? :) speaking of refurbs, is it worth the risk to buy any tv refurb? i saw the aquos that i wanted for about $659 refurb'd.

oh and im going to call hitachi monday and say that the left third of my screen is darker than the rest and has a yellow tint to it that is most prevalent on black and white images but affects color images on that side as well and that the tech said not to worry about it when he was at my house last time becuase it seemed like he didnt want to do anything that involved possibly cracking the tv open.

haha, i couldnt fit it into my bedroom that's why. i have a rather small space as it is and having a tv that big would probably end up having me sleeping on the floor in a corner as opposed to my bed. besides i wouldnt be able to fit the damned thing in the door and to get a hit CRT that is 720p native would mean i would have to get the 57f59 or above, right? :) speaking of refurbs, is it worth the risk to buy any tv refurb? i saw the aquos that i wanted for about $659 refurb'd.

No Hit CRT ever did 720p native, my year 2000 Panny was the last one capable of both HD scanrates native. It's for sale if anyone out there needs a native 720p CRT.

Now taking IN 720p and having the set convert it to 1080i once inside the set, that's another matter -


I like refurbs, I even like buying used. Just test for screenburn with an all white pattern, make sure it hasn't been Torch Moded interminably, and that it has not been the 12-16 hour a day baby sitter, and you'll have a set that will blow you away with its fidelity and performance for years to come, once cleaned and calibrated.


Mr Bob

Thankfully I found another servicer in my area. I'll be sure to post tomorrow with how everything went with Hitachi.

I am definetly going to try the settings that Michael suggested. I have messed with them before but my SRGTA is set at 02. I will bring it back to 00 where I have had it before. As far as APRTR-HDTV I believe I have it at 00 but I'm not at the house right now so I will have to check.

Brightdarkness, I'm telling you after working off this thread with Mr. Bob, Michael, VivatHD, Webb, Bailey, LOrdcloud and everyone else it is incredible what you can do with a RP-CRT, especially the Hit. I had Bourne Ultimatum HD DVD in the other day. I had just watched it on my buds Sammy 40 LCD flat panel. After the tweaks and slight mods, mine beat his. He has a slight edge on sharpness but it diminishes every time I listen to these guys and tweak.

BTW Mr. Bob, Michael, ect.. you are right. The best color setting is ColorG at 00 at the Decoder set right on. Damn!!!! don't I get to be right at least once.

Damn!!!! don't I get to be right at least once.

You were right when you bought the set in the first place. The rest is just icing on the cake.

FWIW, I currently have APRTR-HDTV at 01 and SRGTA at 08. Happy with it so far, but, like everything else, subject to change.

I did some color decoding last night as per Michael's post and I get close on all, blue, red and green but not dead on.
Is there something else that needs to be tweaked besides the color and tint? I went back and forth between tint and color: close but not on the spot.

My picture looks great but is that bug of knowing is close to perfection.

I also changed the contrast for STD and it looks better.

My 51F59 has suddenly started growing the picture. All four sides are getting worse and worse, to the point that text on the top or the bottom of the screen is almost half gone and the first/last letters of text are half missing on the left/right sides respectively.

If I go in and reset the overscan will that solve the growing problem, or do I have a failing component in the set?

The left shift issue is also driving me crazy, but I am aware of that issue.

Has anyone messed around with the astigmatism on your set? I wonder, when I look at a dots pattern, there seems to be some flaring.

I did some color decoding last night as per Michael's post and I get close on all, blue, red and green but not dead on.
Is there something else that needs to be tweaked besides the color and tint? I went back and forth between tint and color: close but not on the spot.

My picture looks great but is that bug of knowing is close to perfection.

I also changed the contrast for STD and it looks better.

I'm guessing you read the post on ColorG at 00 instead of 01 and then adjusting. I found that it takes a lot of going back and forth. I had to learn to do a little one day and start againt the next. I can't think of anything else that would keep the decoder from getting them perfect. Of course what do you mean by a little off? If I look at blue I can see the last two boxes on the top and bottom bars. Its so very slight but since I messed with them so much almost every thing stands out.

I dont know how much time you dedicated to it so far but keep trying and see what you get. :)

Has anyone messed around with the astigmatism on your set? I wonder, when I look at a dots pattern, there seems to be some flaring.

I haven't but I get some flaring as well, but nothing drastic.

Has anyone messed around with the astigmatism on your set? I wonder, when I look at a dots pattern, there seems to be some flaring.


Are there astig magnet rings on your necks? Not centering rings - 1 pair near the sweep yoke - but astig corr rings - at least 2 pairs in the center of the SVM coils in the center of the necks. There will always be centering rings, but sometimes astig rings are only found on the red and green, and not the blue. And sometimes on all 3, but most times on none of them.

If not, you can't improve it anyway.


Mr Bob

Are there astig magnet rings on your necks? Not centering rings - 1 pair near the sweep yoke - but astig corr rings - at least 2 pairs in the center of the SVM coils in the center of the necks. There will always be centering rings, but sometimes astig rings are only found on the red and green, and not the blue. And sometimes on all 3, but most times on none of them.

If not, you can't improve it anyway.


Mr Bob

Yes, there are beam forming (per the manual) magnets on all the CRTs. The service manual has the procedure for adjusting them.

I'm guessing you read the post on ColorG at 00 instead of 01 and then adjusting. I found that it takes a lot of going back and forth. I had to learn to do a little one day and start againt the next. I can't think of anything else that would keep the decoder from getting them perfect. Of course what do you mean by a little off? If I look at blue I can see the last two boxes on the top and bottom bars. Its so very slight but since I messed with them so much almost every thing stands out.

I dont know how much time you dedicated to it so far but keep trying and see what you get. :)

I think I have COLORG 01. I spend around 20 min per color and even changed Avia and DVE patterns just to make sure it wasn't the disk, one thing thou, with the filters the colors are closer.

What I mean by being alittle off is that not all boxes are the same shade, I can see a slight difference. What worked best was a flashing box pattern on DVE that is what got it closer I think. And as can all of you can probably relate, after a white I'm not sure if my eyes are right or if I am imagining things or if my sight is going. Any how it looks good to me.

I am waiting for the family to be gone for a couple of days, or for a a weekend when I can have 3 - 4 hrs. with no one around so I can tackle the sharpie hack :rolleyes: and some sprayway cleaning.

Also as a side note, I'd did 117 cov with binoculars and I thing it is great, although my wife and kids think I'm crazy.

I'll give my eyes a rest and try again.

Yes, there are beam forming (per the manual) magnets on all the CRTs. The service manual has the procedure for adjusting them.

Awesome! The crispness potential for Hits raises the bar yet again! Many great brands don't have astig magnet rings at all.

Whenever you do the astig corr or the scheimpflug corr, the image being out of focus is the key. For astig corr it must be out of focus at the focus block trimpots, for scheimpflug it must be at the opticals/the wingnuts.

When all is so far out of focus that your lines - for sch, or dots - for astig - are at least a half-inch to an inch thick, you can really see what needs to be seen, to make your corrections.

Then put things back in focus again.

After which you'll have to reconv, if you have done sch. For astig, just putting them all back in electrostatic focus should be enough.


Mr Bob

I think I have COLORG 01. I spend around 20 min per color and even changed Avia and DVE patterns just to make sure it wasn't the disk, one thing thou, with the filters the colors are closer.

What I mean by being alittle off is that not all boxes are the same shade, I can see a slight difference. What worked best was a flashing box pattern on DVE that is what got it closer I think. And as can all of you can probably relate, after a white I'm not sure if my eyes are right or if I am imagining things or if my sight is going. Any how it looks good to me.

I am waiting for the family to be gone for a couple of days, or for a a weekend when I can have 3 - 4 hrs. with no one around so I can tackle the sharpie hack :rolleyes: and some sprayway cleaning.

Also as a side note, I'd did 117 cov with binoculars and I thing it is great, although my wife and kids think I'm crazy.

I'll give my eyes a rest and try again.

I believe you're being imprecise on certain levels, and if you tighten up your way of doing it, you might just achieve nirvana!

First of all, the filters are not the bottom line, they are only for sits where you can't actually DO color iso at all, like on fixed pixel displays. True color iso is what the big ceiling CRT pjs use - you just cover 2 guns at a time, with a towel if nothing else, which is what I ultimately had to do with my year 2000 Panny. With the Hits, we are blessed with tru color iso regs in the sm. So dispense with the filters except for reference during alignment. The true test is provided by the RGBout register, which delivers true single color isolation. It has different names depending on brand, hope I have this one correct...

Second, it has been made plain here within the last few dozen posts that 00 is where the true color decoding alignment takes place, not 01. 01 is for the lazy, those who just want to get it closer and be done with it, it is not for the alignment process. So scrap your 01 settings and do all your alignment in 00.

AVIA is what uses the blinking boxes, not DVE.

Remember, with conv you need to be working with a nice thin grid that is the same light level as the material you intend to be watching. The factory grid for the Hits sucks bigtime, is way too thick and bright for use in accurate converging. Can be tamed down to where it should be and used, with regs given in other areas of this thread, or by using AVIA's 50IRE grids instead.

Don't know how far back you are viewing your material, but when the conv is supertight up close and personal, then you can trust it from way back. In my cals, ultimately you can sit 8' back from a 65" and be in heaven, adjust that for your particular size of screen, proportionately.

As I have said before, binocs are not really necessary. Being up close and personal with your conv observations during settings - as in around 2' away - is. And being straight out from your cursor point with your eyes is, which is what using binocs is all about. It simply saves you from having to placement your eyes straight out from all cursor points during conv alignment, meaning if you do it the way I do, your head winds up at dozens of different points in front of your set, while you're doing it, a foot or 2 out at each point. Very entertaining for onlookers... Try THAT and see what your family says about you!

:D

Bottom line is, getting it super close is really good enough for color decoding, it really doesn't need to be ON, per se. Try watching your program material with one set of settings that are close, and then another, and even tho they are different, see if you can really see the difference in what you're watching.

The best test for color decoding and red push is the scene in Shakespeare in Love - chapter 8, I believe - where Kit is discussing Shakespeare's new play with him, down in the watering hole after the announcement of his new play and sitting at the bar, with the bartender attending them and observing. The closeup of Kit is the best - freeze it - and observe his fleshtones against his outfit. The golds, the purples, the blues...

In a red pushed scenario, if the blues have been optimized with the blue filter/iso test, the blues turn out great, but Kit's fleshtones are way over the top, sunburned and ruddy looking. Not really lifelike at all, destroying any chance of that delicate state known as suspension of disbelief, which is what it's all about.

If you reduce the color intensity a few ticks the fleshtones come in just fine. But you wilt out the blues and greens in his outfit, they are no longer vivid like they should be. With red push, accurate fleshtones and a vivid peacock feather cannot both retain their accuracy in the same scene.

Once the color has been properly linearized, the blues and greens and golds in Kit's outfit stand out as vivid and crisp, like they should be, with his fleshtones totally accurate. Fleshtones and a peacock feather can co-exist in the same scene just fine.

At which point try and move to a scene where you can see all 3 of the guys at the bar - Sh and Kit and the bartender - and each of the 3 facial fleshtones will be slightly different and unique. Another great test of color accuracy (including grayscale, the foundation, which has to be accurate as well): a room full of people, all with accurate - and thus slightly different - fleshtones, each of which is unique and easy to make out.


Mr Bob

I believe you're being imprecise on certain levels, and if you tighten up your way of doing it, you might just achieve nirvana!

First of all, the filters are not the bottom line, they are only for sits where you can't actually DO color iso at all, like on fixed pixel displays. True color iso is what the big ceiling CRT pjs use - you just cover 2 guns at a time, with a towel if nothing else, which is what I ultimately had to do with my year 2000 Panny. With the Hits, we are blessed with tru color iso regs in the sm. So dispense with the filters except for reference during alignment. The true test is provided by the RGBout register, which delivers true single color isolation. It has different names depending on brand, hope I have this one correct...

Second, it has been made plain here within the last few dozen posts that 00 is where the true color decoding alignment takes place, not 01. 01 is for the lazy, those who just want to get it closer and be done with it, it is not for the alignment process. So scrap your 01 settings and do all your alignment in 00.

AVIA is what uses the blinking boxes, not DVE.

Remember, with conv you need to be working with a nice thin grid that is the same light level as the material you intend to be watching. The factory grid for the Hits sucks bigtime, is way too thick and bright for use in accurate converging. Can be tamed down to where it should be and used, with regs given in other areas of this thread, or by using AVIA's 50IRE grids instead.

Don't know how far back you are viewing your material, but when the conv is supertight up close and personal, then you can trust it from way back. In my cals, ultimately you can sit 8' back from a 65" and be in heaven, adjust that for your particular size of screen, proportionately.

As I have said before, binocs are not really necessary. Being up close and personal with your conv observations during settings - as in around 2' away - is. And being straight out from your cursor point with your eyes is, which is what using binocs is all about. It simply saves you from having to placement your eyes straight out from all cursor points during conv alignment, meaning if you do it the way I do, your head winds up at dozens of different points in front of your set, while you're doing it, a foot or 2 out at each point. Very entertaining for onlookers... Try THAT and see what your family says about you!

:D

Bottom line is, getting it super close is really good enough for color decoding, it really doesn't need to be ON, per se. Try watching your program material with one set of settings that are close, and then another, and even tho they are different, see if you can really see the difference in what you're watching.

The best test for color decoding and red push is the scene in Shakespeare in Love - chapter 8, I believe - where Kit is discussing Shakespeare's new play with him, down in the watering hole after the announcement of his new play and sitting at the bar, with the bartender attending them and observing. The closeup of Kit is the best - freeze it - and observe his fleshtones against his outfit. The golds, the purples, the blues...

In a red pushed scenario, if the blues have been optimized with the blue filter/iso test, the blues turn out great, but Kit's fleshtones are way over the top, sunburned and ruddy looking. Not really lifelike at all, destroying any chance of that delicate state known as suspension of disbelief, which is what it's all about.

If you reduce the color intensity a few ticks the fleshtones come in just fine. But you wilt out the blues and greens in his outfit, they are no longer vivid like they should be. With red push, accurate fleshtones and a vivid peacock feather cannot both retain their accuracy in the same scene.

Once the color has been properly linearized, the blues and greens and golds in Kit's outfit stand out as vivid and crisp, like they should be, with his fleshtones totally accurate. Fleshtones and a peacock feather can co-exist in the same scene just fine.

At which point try and move to a scene where you can see all 3 of the guys at the bar - Sh and Kit and the bartender - and each of the 3 facial fleshtones will be slightly different and unique. Another great test of color accuracy (inlcuding grayscale, the foundation, which has to be accurate as well): a room full of people, all with accurate - and thus slightly different - fleshtones, each of which is unique and easy to make out.


Mr Bob

Once more thank you Mr. Bob!!! your comments and opinion is very valuable.

Yes I have the cov grid toned down. And the way you describe to do cov up close and personal is the way I had done it many times before, however, I kind of kneel down 2 feet in front of the TV and move from side to side and up an down, and yes, my family gets a kick out of watching me doing this. I decided to use the binoculars in order to try something new and like it has been said here, tweaking is fun and adictive.

I guess I'm heading to Amazon from here to get a copy of Shakespeare in Love. Any other reference material?

How about starting a thread for referance material for color, whites, blacks etc.?

By the way Mr. Bob; I'm talking to several people that I know have RPCRT and doing my Mr. Bob evangelism to see if there is a number of us interested in flying you in in the future.

How about starting a thread for referance material for color, whites, blacks etc.?

This is your idea, and a good one. You should run with it. I will be glad to chip in -

By the way Mr. Bob; I'm talking to several people that I know have RPCRT and doing my Mr. Bob evangelism to see if there is a number of us interested in flying you in in the future.

I'd like that. Where are ya?

;)

Mr Bob

I'd like that. Where are ya?

;)



San Antonio, TX

Can't add much but that true color isolation must be done in Colorg 00. Read my post and you'll see how much trouble I went thru to figure that out.

San Antonio, TX

I'm down. Going to the Twin Cities next week for a tour of Pioneer Elite repairs and cals, then to Portland for my brother's birthday on the 14th, am free after that -


Mr Bob

As Mr. Bob said colorG has to be adjusted from 00. You may find it to red at first but get the colors aligned and let it go for the day. Look at it again the next day and see what you think. Also minor changes in the values can resolve some of your red issues at 00. I put my values kinda neutral and then adjusted them away from each other and back again until my decoder was pretty much right on. I did this for B-G-R in that order. What ever works for you. The main thing for me was to step away. Also get the decoder right at 00 and then flip it between 00 and 01. IT helped me a lot to see how much muting 01 does to the reds and skin tone differences.

Just as an overview -

Blue is the MASTER color and tint, which affects all 3 colors at all times.

The decoding regs for that particular scanrate/input type - on Hit there are several in each decoding category, I always have to test for which does what - will control the color and tint of red, and the color and tint of green. This is AFTER the color and tint of blue is perfect, according to the blue ISOLATION test. This is ALL AFTER the grayscale has been aligned to D6500K. On some sets the decoding changes the grayscale and vice versa, and as such some ping ponging has to be done.

Not so with Hit, tho. You align the grayscale to accuracy at mid light level, you align the blue only, then you align the color and tint of red and the color and tint of green and you're done. On a Mit you'd then have to go back and redo the blue, as things interact with each other in there, but not on a Hit. Once you have finished, it's done.

I sometimes find that the Tint has too few notches to be perfect, you have to settle for one, which will make a box too light - or the other, which will make the box too dark. Just the way it is, gotta go with it. Fortunately once it's that close, either setting will be indiscriminable - is that actually a word??? - from the other, on program material.

Ideally, the color and tint settings of each of the 3 primary colors, under direct single color isolation, will render the ideal test pattern result of matching intensities all around, in that color. If you are in true color isolation, there will be no color shadings to have to make judgment calls about, like with filters. Just intensities. Brighter boxes vs. darker ones, in THAT color. Period.

At which point you should be able to trust that your colors in viewed video material are completely linear and thus completely match up to the industry standard used to make discs like AVIA and DVE, rendering viewing that's completely matched up - the same color paradigm as the studios and the broadcasters sent them out in, the same colorations as the director viewed them during filming/shooting. I call that "True to the original".

Our test patterns and color decoding registers are designed to get us back to the garden - to be seeing the same thing as was on set that day, under that lighting, as if we were there.

That's TRUE reality programming!

:p


Mr Bob

Ok lets see if I have this right:

On the Hitachis, make sure we gave colorg 00 then decode color starting with blue, then green and leave red for last. then go back to blue and recheck. After these if red is to oversaturated go back to colorg 01.

On a different subject, same topic. Is there a way to calibrate grayscale with out instruments? I know Mr. Bob has always mentioned that is should looked like a cloudy day. Being that every calibration is based on getting grayscale correct first thus the question on how to set it up first.

Going back to Hits through SM we can adjust the DRV settings and the G-* settings are these also "live", do we see changes as they are changed? I know... "try it and let us know" just thought I would ask.

Ok lets see if I have this right:

On the Hitachis, make sure we gave colorg 00 then decode color starting with blue, then green and leave red for last. then go back to blue and recheck. After these if red is to oversaturated go back to colorg 01.


Sounds reasonable enough -


On a different subject, same topic. Is there a way to calibrate grayscale with out instruments? I know Mr. Bob has always mentioned that is should looked like a cloudy day. Being that every calibration is based on getting grayscale correct first thus the question on how to set it up first.

Going back to Hits through SM we can adjust the DRV settings and the G-* settings are these also "live", do we see changes as they are changed? I know... "try it and let us know" just thought I would ask.

You really at the very least need a valid comparison D6500K standard for optical comparation, to get it right. A dully cloudy day is accurate and good to talk about, but it's fairly useless as a comparation standard under the darkened conditions required for grayscale alignment, where you get the sample - your display - right up next to the standard and align till they are the same color of gray at all points except the highest of high whites, which are usually going to be nonlinear and can be left out of the equation when the rest of the IREs are where they belong.

Along with their very expensive Photo Research spectroradiometer, the guys at Runco also use optical comparation for grayscale, and so do I. Don't know where you would get one now, tho, the last one I knew about, aside from the one I got directly from Joel at ISF at my first ISF training, was the TVS Pro, which is not made anymore. I have both and would be willing to rent the TVS Pro out to anyone who is willing to treat it right and let me keep a hefty deposit on it, until returned. Same for my spare Accupel HD pattern generator, which OPs RGB and component (not DVI/HDMI, I use that one all the time).

Yes, in STD you do see the changes as they are made. STD, or Mid, or Neutral, depending on your brand, is all you'll need, for D6500K. (High for Mit, as that is the only one that is specific to the scanrate involved. Low is universal for all scanrates, and Mid is the average between the 2.)


Mr Bob

I guess I'm heading to Amazon from here to get a copy of Shakespeare in Love. Any other reference material?

DVE has a good scene in the demo materials "Montage of Images" with four kids with different skintones (is that politically correct enough?) and bright balloons. You need to slow it down and freeze the frame to see anything, but the results are pretty much as Bob describes for Shakespeare (which I will get next time I'm at either the library or Blockbuster). The balloons should be bright without overemphasizing the flesh tones.

i was tweaking this morning and changing r-drv-s to 4f helped my red push out a bunch, just thought i'd let ya know. i still cant get the dve image of the fair skinned redhead to balance out just right with the reds though. the pink color box isnt the pale pink like someone posted a few pages ago, it is more of a hot pink, not flourescent, but its not pale. although, i did go back to some of my own reference material (one of the presidential debates on cnn hd) and the flesh tones were awesome! clinton didnt look like she had a sunburn anymore. would white balance help get that pink box more pale?

i was tweaking this morning and changing r-drv-s to 4f helped my red push out a bunch, just thought i'd let ya know. i still cant get the dve image of the fair skinned redhead to balance out just right with the reds though. the pink color box isnt the pale pink like someone posted a few pages ago, it is more of a hot pink, not flourescent, but its not pale. although, i did go back to some of my own reference material (one of the presidential debates on cnn hd) and the flesh tones were awesome! clinton didnt look like she had a sunburn anymore. would white balance help get that pink box more pale?

What does your decoder now look like. Are the boxes right on or off since you changed the setting r-drv-s? I'm curious because I have changed those slightly a way back when everyone thought colorg01 was the way to go. I guess I'm thinking that my decoder is right on then those have to be also? Has anyone who has fiddled with these before see that it changed the decoder significantly or not?:confused:

What does your decoder now look like. Are the boxes right on or off since you changed the setting r-drv-s?
for which color?

oh and my lens striping isnt so apparent anymore after i fiddled with the grayscale a lil bit after writing down my original settings. i also did the aperture setting tweak and it isn't so blurry on the left any more either. still gonna get the other HIT rep out here. oh and when i called hit earlier this week they apologized for my previous experience and recommended another rep in my area. when i told them about how parts of my image were cut off on the sides and bottom he said to change the aspect ratio of the tv and that would fix it, yeah, sure. it didn't work, of course i was already at 16:9 standard and my directv receiver is set to 16:9 standard too.

oh while i was tweaking this morning i stumbled upon a few interesting things that i have questions about. When i open up the service menu and click on "service" the screen goes black and there is a red, blue, and green line running down the center of the screen horizontally, with the colors stacked on top of each other. near the edges they are separated and on the left side the red is about an inch and a half short of reaching all the way to the edge. on the right the stripes separate slightly too, is this corrected with dcam?

the second menu i tried geting into was "ISF mode" but pressing select on it did nothing, what is it?