For all colors. Mine are good for all three. In the past red would have matching shades on the boxes but were 2 shades darker than the background. THis tamed fleshtones significantly but muted the colors of the pic. I was able to balance out all 3 colors at colorg 00. The best way I can suggest is get what you like on colorg01. Then flip it to 00. You will see that the colors are muted on 01 though the fleshtones might appear good.

Start adjusting the values slightly until you get all of them good on 00. Flip back to 01 and see the differences. Eventually you will arrive at great colors and tones on 00. It just takes time.

Man you are a brave soul. I will not experiment with random SM directories just to see what they are.

i was tweaking this morning and changing r-drv-s to 4f helped my red push out a bunch, just thought i'd let ya know.

would white balance help get that pink box more pale?

R-drv-s is grayscale, NOT color decoding. Changing it must be done when the b/w material requires it, NOT the colorations.

ALL grayscale settings must be changed in response to b/w material up there, NOT color material.

Sure it changes your reds, but alters the grayscale in the process. If it was dead on before, it's not now -


Mr Bob

when i told them about how parts of my image were cut off on the sides and bottom he said to change the aspect ratio of the tv and that would fix it, yeah, sure. it didn't work, of course i was already at 16:9 standard and my directv receiver is set to 16:9 standard too.


Aspect ratio doesn't happen on 480p or HD on anything but the newest of sets. I am sure yours is frozen out of any changes there.

Overscan is endemic in these CRT based units. It CAN be taken in, but requires a lot of work to remedy how badly your pic gets hosed in the process, not just on conv but also on geometry.



oh while i was tweaking this morning i stumbled upon a few interesting things that i have questions about. When i open up the service menu and click on "service" the screen goes black and there is a red, blue, and green line running down the center of the screen horizontally, with the colors stacked on top of each other. near the edges they are separated and on the left side the red is about an inch and a half short of reaching all the way to the edge. on the right the stripes separate slightly too, is this corrected with dcam?


"Service" is for old time techs who didn't know how to do grayscale alignments, it is to get it close. It is totally useless today, have NO idea why they ever put it there in sm...

:eek:

But then again, the service manual only coaches you in how to achieve D10500K with your grayscale gear, which is totally useless when D6500K is the actual industry standard.

For a set that was not set up for their own people to get superlative performance out of it, we are lucky that we can commandeer the registers for our own videophile performance!

:D



the second menu i tried geting into was "ISF mode" but pressing select on it did nothing, what is it?

You might have to go to the right on your remote arrow keys to get it up there. I will let the guys here guide you on that. I always just feel it out whenever I am on a particular brand or other.


Mr Bob

Mr. Bob,

I had no idea how much there is to know on these sets. It seems like you have to be an atomic scientist to get it all right.

Mr. Bob,

I had no idea how much there is to know on these sets. It seems like you have to be an atomic scientist to get it all right.

Helps...

:D

;)

for which color?

oh and my lens striping isnt so apparent anymore after i fiddled with the grayscale a lil bit after writing down my original settings. i also did the aperture setting tweak and it isn't so blurry on the left any more either. still gonna get the other HIT rep out here. oh and when i called hit earlier this week they apologized for my previous experience and recommended another rep in my area. when i told them about how parts of my image were cut off on the sides and bottom he said to change the aspect ratio of the tv and that would fix it, yeah, sure. it didn't work, of course i was already at 16:9 standard and my directv receiver is set to 16:9 standard too.

oh while i was tweaking this morning i stumbled upon a few interesting things that i have questions about. When i open up the service menu and click on "service" the screen goes black and there is a red, blue, and green line running down the center of the screen horizontally, with the colors stacked on top of each other. near the edges they are separated and on the left side the red is about an inch and a half short of reaching all the way to the edge. on the right the stripes separate slightly too, is this corrected with dcam?

the second menu i tried geting into was "ISF mode" but pressing select on it did nothing, what is it?

When you use the 'SERVICE' option, it is used for cutoff adjustment using the VR pots. You don't want to be in there.

ISF mode is apparently disabled. I've tried getting information on it, but to no avail. I believe there are tweaks in there. Some think there are not, and everything is in the TA1360 menu for setting color and grayscale. But, when you look in the service manual for the TA1360 menu, the DRV and CUT settings for all 3 color temps are always the same. If the TV was setup properly in the factory, no way that ALL the 5XF59 models would have the exact same settings for DRVs and CUTs.

When you use the 'SERVICE' option, it is used for cutoff adjustment using the VR pots. You don't want to be in there.

ISF mode is apparently disabled. I've tried getting information on it, but to no avail. I believe there are tweaks in there. Some think there are not, and everything is in the TA1360 menu for setting color and grayscale. But, when you look in the service manual for the TA1360 menu, the DRV and CUT settings for all 3 color temps are always the same. If the TV was setup properly in the factory, no way that ALL the 5XF59 models would have the exact same settings for DRVs and CUTs.

Service manual settings are always at a constant default, on all brands, simply as a starting point for their techs in the field. You can never trust the settings in a service manual for grayscale. and setting the trimpots has to be done without any startup settings at all, unless you're starting from absolute scratch, where the cutoff should be midpointed before setting the Screen trimpots. Midpoints are usually what is given in the service manual.


Mr Bob

Service manual settings are always at a constant default, on all brands, simply as a starting point for their techs in the field. You can never trust the settings in a service manual for grayscale. and setting the trimpots has to be done without any startup settings at all, unless you're starting from absolute scratch, where the cutoff should be midpointed before setting the Screen trimpots. Midpoints are usually what is given in the service manual.


Mr Bob

What I'm saying is that the CUT and DRV settings that are shown as defaults in the service manual are exactly what mine were before adjusting grayscale. I believe that all the 5XF59 units are that way.

That leads me to believe that IF the factory is setting the units to the 10K settings for HIGH TEMP in the factory, they are adjusting registers elsewhere. Setting up the HIGH TEMP for 10K is supposed to automatically adjust the MED and STD temp values.

OOB measurements I made were:
HIGH = >10,000K
MED = 7,000K
STD = 5,500K

What I'm saying is that the CUT and DRV settings that are shown as defaults in the service manual are exactly what mine were before adjusting grayscale. I believe that all the 5XF59 units are that way.

That leads me to believe that IF the factory is setting the units to the 10K settings for HIGH TEMP in the factory, they are adjusting registers elsewhere. Setting up the HIGH TEMP for 10K is supposed to automatically adjust the MED and STD temp values.

OOB measurements I made were:
HIGH = >10,000K
MED = 7,000K
STD = 5,500K
Maybe they are NOT adjusting registers elsewhere, and are trusting the others to fall into place once the HIGH is adjusted.


Mr Bob

R-drv-s is grayscale, NOT color decoding. Changing it must be done when the b/w material requires it, NOT the colorations.

ALL grayscale settings must be changed in response to b/w material up there, NOT color material.

Sure it changes your reds, but alters the grayscale in the process. If it was dead on before, it's not now -


Mr Bob

glad i made a notepad file with all my original settings, im going to go back and reset them to defaults. i have a grayscale image for calibration and everything still looked good to my eyes after i changed my values with lordcloud's settings as a starting point. wow, each set really is different because some of his settings were waaaaaay off for my set. ill do some more tweaking later, ill see how everything looks tomorrow.

is there anyway to lock in my convergence? it seems i have to make small adjustments every few days with the 117 point scale.

glad i made a notepad file with all my original settings, im going to go back and reset them to defaults. i have a grayscale image for calibration and everything still looked good to my eyes after i changed my values with lordcloud's settings as a starting point. wow, each set really is different because some of his settings were waaaaaay off for my set. ill do some more tweaking later, ill see how everything looks tomorrow.

is there anyway to lock in my convergence? it seems i have to make small adjustments every few days with the 117 point scale.

OK BIG NEWS ALERT/////////

A long time ago I made some adjustments to the drv and cut settings. At that time I had no idea about which settings adjusted grayscale or what the heck grayscale did. I based them off others tweaks.

After seeing your post it hit me real quick why red was always a problem. I had adjusted gray scale without any reference material to guide me, much less the right equipment. I put DVE in and used a grayscale screen. I adjusted back to my original settings. All of them RGB cut and drv. I could actually see the red in the gray material on the tweaked settings. Before I had no reference, but with DVE and setting to look at it was clear my mistake. Colors are now even better.

Mr. Bob and Lee both kept referring to my grayscale as I tried and tried to get my colors right. You guys were spot on. Even though I was able to get my colors good and decoder aligned I had the under lying problem of having screwed my grayscale. I'm sure Mr. Bob could get it better (added to the Mr. Bob fund just today) but it is much closer than before. Can't tell me how happy I am you messed with that setting and posted it.

Still learning but miles ahead of where I was. A warning to all I guess not to mess with things you don't understand and watch that grayscale. So in conclusion I could get the decoder aligned with the errant settings. That had nothing to do with the decoder. My grayscale is definetely seperate from the decoder but the colors were not right because my under lining gray was wrong. Just as Mr. Bob has said numerous times.

is there anyway to lock in my convergence? it seems i have to make small adjustments every few days with the 117 point scale.

So do I. The red, especially, seems to drift in and out from the sides. Make sure the set's warmed up for a while before you check. If you want to go really crazy (and blind), use a dot pattern for DCAM, rather than the grids. Then, to be really safe, don't check it for a while. It'll be close enough.

glad i made a notepad file with all my original settings, im going to go back and reset them to defaults. i have a grayscale image for calibration and everything still looked good to my eyes after i changed my values with lordcloud's settings as a starting point. wow, each set really is different because some of his settings were waaaaaay off for my set. ill do some more tweaking later, ill see how everything looks tomorrow.

is there anyway to lock in my convergence? it seems i have to make small adjustments every few days with the 117 point scale.

You may need to go into DCAM mode, and save the settings to ROM.

is it good to use my laptop as a reference screen for how my colors should look? when i was done doing decoding i turned the rgb back to 00 and had my laptop on my knee on the couch and the colors were close but not completely matched up with my computer monitor's.

the decoder was easy to adjust, and actually this whole tweaking process has been a lot of fun. greyscale is next.

i can only really tweak when my parents are gone becuase they are usually watching the set when they are home so its usually a week or so between tweak times.

im feeling a little trepidation about entering DCAM though. can someone post some screens of the process so i can see what i will encounter, theres that whole fear of the unknown thing going on with me. what is the best image to use while doing dcam? my dad's PS3 has been really helpful becuase i can load the color bar patterns and whatnot onto it and have them displayed while im tweaking.

also, should i adjust grayscale before or after dcam and the decoder?

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5166/31808firstscreenshotsonzg0.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9916/31808firstscreenshotsonee9.jpg[/URL]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2991/31808firstscreenshotsondm3.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/25/31808firstscreenshotsondf5.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4422/31808firstscreenshotsonhp5.jpg[/URL]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5825/31808firstscreenshotsonta4.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3360/31808firstscreenshotsonic1.jpg[/URL]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6818/31808firstscreenshotsongr6.jpg[/URL]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9317/31808firstscreenshotsoncv7.jpg[/URL]

is it good to use my laptop as a reference screen for how my colors should look? when i was done doing decoding i turned the rgb back to 00 and had my laptop on my knee on the couch and the colors were close but not completely matched up with my computer monitor's.

Who knows? We'd need testing equipment to know for sure -


should i adjust grayscale before or after dcam and the decoder?



Grayscale and color decoding are in the colorations aspects, and the grayscale needs to be done in the dark.

DCAM is in the image structure, entirely separate from the colorations aspects. It doesn't matter whether you do structure or colorations first, but the grayscale has to be ON already, before you can count on it as a valid platform to build your colorations paradigm on.


Mr Bob

is it good to use my laptop as a reference screen for how my colors should look? when i was done doing decoding i turned the rgb back to 00 and had my laptop on my knee on the couch and the colors were close but not completely matched up with my computer monitor's.

the decoder was easy to adjust, and actually this whole tweaking process has been a lot of fun. greyscale is next.

i can only really tweak when my parents are gone becuase they are usually watching the set when they are home so its usually a week or so between tweak times.

im feeling a little trepidation about entering DCAM though. can someone post some screens of the process so i can see what i will encounter, theres that whole fear of the unknown thing going on with me. what is the best image to use while doing dcam? my dad's PS3 has been really helpful becuase i can load the color bar patterns and whatnot onto it and have them displayed while im tweaking.

also, should i adjust grayscale before or after dcam and the decoder?

Unless you've had your laptop calibrated, it makes no sense to match your TV to it. So put the laptop away and continue to calibrate the TV.
Grayscale should be done before color, but has no effect on convergence.
If you've gone this far, you probably have a service manual, which explains DCAM pretty well (if you don't have one yet, download it ASAP; it's invaluable). Very similar to the 117 point convergence grid in the user menu, with more options. Therefore, more dangerous, so just keep using the user grid if you're not comfortable going further (but there's really no reason not to, since you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you're doing). I have found that a dot pattern is the most helpful for DCAM convergence, but that's just a personal preference.
Enjoy.
Michael

Great pics Mr.Bob. My skin tones and colors are closer to yours now. Great detail in your set. The shot of the face and bandage is so detailed it is amazing. Don't think I have that much detail in mine yet. Would that be sharpness dialed in, focus or what?? Let me guess....a whole lot of things combined.

im going to do grayscale asap and then mess with the decoder again. any tips for a dcam image though?

and yes i do have a copy of the service manual and the diy guide and the dcam guide.

If the TV was setup properly in the factory, no way that ALL the 5XF59 models would have the exact same settings for DRVs and CUTs.

It seems that they do at least some sort of adjustment. My White Balance High settings are different OOB than the defaults. Since, as has been mentioned before, Hitachi seems concerned only with getting high at D10500K, that may be what they do.
My settings: default/oob:
3F / 2F
3F / 17
7F / 8B
7F / 7F
7F / 93
I would be surprised (and not a little disappointed) if everyone else reported that these were their settings for WBHigh, too.

im going to do grayscale asap and then mess with the decoder again. any tips for a dcam image though?

The default grid is okay, just make sure you change DCUBRT from 3F to 1F and DCUCNT from 5A to 2D (half). That makes the big fat lines much thinner and more useful.
As I said, I like using a dot pattern (AVIA or DVE), so see what works best for you.
Michael

It seems that they do at least some sort of adjustment. My White Balance High settings are different OOB than the defaults. Since, as has been mentioned before, Hitachi seems concerned only with getting high at D10500K, that may be what they do.
My settings: default/oob:
3F / 2F
3F / 17
7F / 8B
7F / 7F
7F / 93
I would be surprised (and not a little disappointed) if everyone else reported that these were their settings for WBHigh, too.

heres mine OOB

g drv H-29
r drv h- 14
r cut h-7b
g cut h- 7f
b cut h- 86

If that 7b is for r-cut then mine set at that level put a lot of red in the grayscale when I had it at 8A. Back at OOB 7b is very good. What exactly is the med and std for? I had previously adjusted them off another recommendation and now have them back to OOB. Here are all mine. The DVE patterns look good for grayscale here but that is by eye.

g drv h-29
g drv m-49
g drv std-50

r drv h-14
r drv med 4d
r drv s-55

r cut h-7b
r cut m-7f
r cut s-7f

g cut h-7f
g cut m-7f
g cut s-7f

b cut h-86
b cut m-7f
b cut s-7f

Wondering if any of you are close to these settings?

What exactly is the med and std for?

Refers to the temperature setting: High, Medium and Standard. I guess real purists would set grayscale at each temp, then use color bars to set decoder at each temp (hence, the -H, -M and -S). I may have tried that at some point, probably didn't make much of a difference (to me, anyway).
But if you find yourself with some time to kill,...
:)
Michael

Question?

I let a buddy borrow my DVE today so I dont have it. I turned my color down to 0 right now and i still had color in the pic. I thought it should go completly black and white? If this is correct then this means I still have grayscale probs right??

is this (http://www.normankoren.com/Stepchart_large_bw2.jpg) a good greyscale calibration image?

The default grid is okay, just make sure you change DCUBRT from 3F to 1F and DCUCNT from 5A to 2D (half). That makes the big fat lines much thinner and more useful.
As I said, I like using a dot pattern (AVIA or DVE), so see what works best for you.
Michael

thats in the ta1360 menu right?

I have found that a dot pattern is the most helpful for DCAM convergence, but that's just a personal preference.
Enjoy.
Michael


It's really hard to get your lines totally straight and superimposed directly on top of each other when you can't see between those dots. To get lines right - superimposed correctly over the entire screen - you sometimes have to bend one up and the one beside it down -

I would take a nice, thin medium light level grid over dots any day -


Mr Bob

Great pics Mr.Bob. My skin tones and colors are closer to yours now. Great detail in your set. The shot of the face and bandage is so detailed it is amazing. Don't think I have that much detail in mine yet. Would that be sharpness dialed in, focus or what?? Let me guess....a whole lot of things combined.

Sign up for a paid phone consultation and I'll spill my guts -

:D

Mr Bob

What exactly is the med and std for?


I think they give you 3 settings in the usually vain hope that one of them will at least be somewhere close to D6500K.

Usually none of them are even close.


Mr Bob

Question?

I let a buddy borrow my DVE today so I dont have it. I turned my color down to 0 right now and i still had color in the pic. I thought it should go completly black and white? If this is correct then this means I still have grayscale probs right??

Turning your color all the way down may not completely eliminate colorations.

Yank your Pb and Pr from your component, which will leave you with Y only, which is pure, unadulterated b/w.


Mr Bob

is this (http://www.normankoren.com/Stepchart_large_bw2.jpg) a good greyscale calibration image?

Looks good. Can't know on something like that, they may have made it sepia or something.


Mr Bob

Sign up for a paid phone consultation and I'll spill my guts -

:D

Mr Bob

Mr Bob,

Sent you a PM

I have found that a dot pattern is the most helpful for DCAM convergence, but that's just a personal preference.
Enjoy.
Michael

I feel the same way, dots rule!

thats in the ta1360 menu right?

Yup.

is this (http://www.normankoren.com/Stepchart_large_bw2.jpg) a good greyscale calibration image?

The beginning of U2's "Rattle and Hum" is in black and white. HD-B/W. Oxymoron, no? Anyway, Gives you a good idea of evenness of grays across the screen. And the gospel version of "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" is worth the price of the disc.
Michael

The beginning of U2's "Rattle and Hum" is in black and white. HD-B/W. Oxymoron, no? Anyway, Gives you a good idea of evenness of grays across the screen. And the gospel version of "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" is worth the price of the disc.
Michael


Since RATTLE & HUM on HD DVD was one of my freebies from Toshiba.....guess it was worth it?:D

Agree on the film though. The audio is excellent, although the PQ is not always so hot (more a fault of the way it was shot/poorly mastered - not an HD DVD/BluRay issue).

Then again, the HD DVD replaced the old VHS copy I've had since 1990, so anything is an improvement.

Would suggest even w/ B&W fotage, if you run component, still unplug 2 of the 3 (Pb/Pr) for "true" B&W - even B&W film footage could have some "color" in it.

CASABLANCA is also still available on HD DVD from WB. Another great high-def B&W source (and a classic film to boot).

CASABLANCA is also still available on HD DVD from WB. Another great high-def B&W source (and a classic film to boot).

Yes, I've played it, Sam.
:)

I always check this thread---hell, I started it!!!

Nice to see so many of you really taking the ball & running w/ it. Kinda figured this one would have slowly sunk to the bottom of the RPTV forums by now.

So on behalf of every F59 owner with the "tweak" itch that needs scratched - I applaud you. I know I will miss someone, but relative "newbies" like Mustang68, brightdarkness.....you guys are really keeping this thread current, vital & relavent.

"Old schoolers" like LastButNotLeast, Lee Bailey, lordcloud, every longtime current/former F59 user, and of course the man that keeps every CRT thread stocked with juicy info - Mr Bob - have made my little thread such a great source (and not so little anymore). Far more so that I ever could.

You guys rock.

I always check this thread---hell, I started it!!!

Nice to see so many of you really taking the ball & running w/ it. Kinda figured this one would have slowly sunk to the bottom of the RPTV forums by now.

So on behalf of every F59 owner with the "tweak" itch that needs scratched - I applaud you. I know I will miss someone, but relative "newbies" like Mustang68, brightdarkness.....you guys are really keeping this thread current, vital & relavent.

"Old schoolers" like LastButNotLeast, Lee Bailey, lordcloud, every longtime current/former F59 user, and of course the man that keeps every CRT thread stocked with juicy info - Mr Bob - have made my little thread such a great source (and not so little anymore). Far more so that I ever could.

You guys rock.

Dude! You rock! Thanks to you starting this great thread, I've gotten more enjoyment out of my set set than I ever could otherwise. And thanks to everyone that's had anything to say in this thread. It's all been much appreciated, and it's been great meeting new virtual friends along the way. If anyone's ever out in Utah, come on by and take a look.

Dude! You rock! Thanks to you starting this great thread, I've gotten more enjoyment out of my set set than I ever could otherwise. And thanks to everyone that's had anything to say in this thread. It's all been much appreciated, and it's been great meeting new virtual friends along the way. If anyone's ever out in Utah, come on by and take a look.

Ditto:cool:

I always check this thread---hell, I started it!!!

Nice to see so many of you really taking the ball & running w/ it. Kinda figured this one would have slowly sunk to the bottom of the RPTV forums by now.

So on behalf of every F59 owner with the "tweak" itch that needs scratched - I applaud you. I know I will miss someone, but relative "newbies" like Mustang68, brightdarkness.....you guys are really keeping this thread current, vital & relavent.

"Old schoolers" like LastButNotLeast, Lee Bailey, lordcloud, every longtime current/former F59 user, and of course the man that keeps every CRT thread stocked with juicy info - Mr Bob - have made my little thread such a great source (and not so little anymore). Far more so that I ever could.

You guys rock.

it's just how i was designed, thanks :)

wow, i thought every set had a nice dedicated thread for it. i went looking on the sharp aquos thread and it is pretty much dead in the water. long live this thread, haha.

Thanks to you starting this great thread, I've gotten more enjoyment out of my set set than I ever could otherwise.

Absolutely the best time, effort and money I've ever spent. Kudos to all for chipping in.
Michael

Here's just a few pics I took last night. Note that I was not using a tripod. Got some quirks to work out on taking screen shots. But, just wanted to share anyways.

105725

105726

105727

105728

105729

Here's just a few pics I took last night. Note that I was not using a tripod. Got some quirks to work out on taking screen shots. But, just wanted to share anyways.

105725

105726

105727

105728

105729

Who woudn't want to own a set that could look that good!

;)


Mr Bob

Here's just a few pics I took last night. Note that I was not using a tripod. Got some quirks to work out on taking screen shots. But, just wanted to share anyways.

105725

105726

105727

105728

105729

Great Fitfth Element shots

The default grid is okay, just make sure you change DCUBRT from 3F to 1F and DCUCNT from 5A to 2D (half). That makes the big fat lines much thinner and more useful.
As I said, I like using a dot pattern (AVIA or DVE), so see what works best for you.
Michael

will changing those settings alter anything else in the picture or just the convergence grid lines?

will changing those settings alter anything else in the picture or just the convergence grid lines?

Just the convergence grid-line

Here's just a few pics I took last night. Note that I was not using a tripod. Got some quirks to work out on taking screen shots. But, just wanted to share anyways.

105725

105726

105727

105728

105729

This one is my favorite and looks incredible. I need to compare it to mine, but the only issue I see is your blue convergence, which I am trying me best to get rid of in my set. I think the key is astigmatism, but I haven't tried to tackle it again lately. Your colors seem a little high as well. But the dimensionality is off the charts! What do you think?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/HDTVPOTC.jpg

I don't notice the blue, except when I see it in a photo!

I don't notice the blue, except when I see it in a photo!

I really wish there was a way to take more accurate pics of RP sets. Your set looks great though. Really, the illusion of depth in the pics is outstanding.

I don't notice the blue, except when I see it in a photo!

The blue from CRT reacts differently to a digital cam's CCD from how it reacts to an eyeball. I see blue fringing on digital pix that I don't see on the screens themselves. I have seen this a number of times.

I am total agreement with you -

;)


Mr Bob

This one is my favorite and looks incredible. I need to compare it to mine, but the only issue I see is your blue convergence, which I am trying me best to get rid of in my set. I think the key is astigmatism, but I haven't tried to tackle it again lately. Your colors seem a little high as well. But the dimensionality is off the charts! What do you think?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/HDTVPOTC.jpg


The depth and dimensionality of this pic is a true testament not only to how well it has been calibrated, but to how clean the optics are. Great cleaning job, on that!

Depth and dimensionality are some of the true gifts of having a crystal clear light path.

:cool:

Mr Bob

I really wish there was a way to take more accurate pics of RP sets. Your set looks great though. Really, the illusion of depth in the pics is outstanding.

There is, though it means getting a digital camera that lets you control the shutter speed, or at least have a shutter priority ability. I took these by setting my camera up for White Balance at Sunlight, Center-Weighted Metering, and ISO 50. It ended up with a shutter speed of 1/8. The optimum shutter speed should be around 1/15 to 1/20, which is why the 5th element face shot is so dark I believe.


Thanks for the compliments!:D

I really wish there was a way to take more accurate pics of RP sets. Your set looks great though. Really, the illusion of depth in the pics is outstanding.

I have found that my autofocusing digital cam just doesn't focus right, presumably due to the optics of firing thru the viewscreen, down to the CRT faces, much farther away. The only way I have found to get accurate focusing on my screenshots is to use a camera with a manual focusing option.

The auto aperature/shutter speed can also get in the way, and I have had to take my set's contrast down way low to get it to come in properly, on the exposure, if using a cam that does it automatically. Auto always overexposes the shots, blurring the edges, just like running your contrast too high does, during normal viewing. Even with my new one that gives me control, I still have to keep fine tuning it for each different light level of picture -

Yes, Lee, awesome shots!

:cool:

Mr Bob


PS - here's a bigger version of one of mine, from above, from Fracture with Hopkins behind his rolling ball machine -


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6538/31808firstscreenshotsonjg9.jpg

Okay, thanks to Lee's settings, I'm getting a little closer. This is from a random OTA show (Eli Stone, I think) with the set on freeze frame:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2527/elistone2tz2.jpg

Colors are actually closer than I've gotten them before. Still not nearly as sharp as I see it, though used manual focus (perhaps not properly). Will continue to experiment.

Okay, thanks to Lee's settings, I'm getting a little closer. This is from a random OTA show (Eli Stone, I think) with the set on freeze frame:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2527/elistone2tz2.jpg

Colors are actually closer than I've gotten them before. Still not nearly as sharp as I see it, though used manual focus (perhaps not properly). Will continue to experiment.

You're gettin' it, Michael! Great crispness. Try using a 2 second timer - on tripod of course - to get past any chance of camera shake.

Try turning down your br just a tad, make sure that in dark areas of the pic the black clamps to black correctly and completely.
This can only be accomplished with crystal clear optics, of course, and the cam lens crystal clear as well -

You may have the br just right, it may be my laptop's LCD display that is saying otherwise. I am on the road in MN on a cal tour, and won't have access to my regular CRT monitor for another week.


Mr Bob

WOW, this thread is as lively as ever.... Great screens from Mr. Bob, Lee & LBNL.
With all this talk about cleaning optics & darkening the interior of the set, I'm getting the itch to open my HITACHI & giving her a nice cleaning.

I don't own the f59 I own it's big brother F510. I've owned it for about 2 1/2 years. In my eyes the optics look fine (Cable, Gaming & Movies) but all this talk has got me wondering. My other thing is as big as I am, I'm a little intimidated with the process of opening her-up if I decide to go thru with cleaning her & darkening her-up a little..

Is it as Hard/Difficult as I think it is? Should I wait a little longer before I do it?

Feedback

PS, I will post some screens later tonight for viewing & feedback purposes also

Folks in the Chicago area -

I am in MN doing a cal tour as we speak, and a guy in Chicago wants to get a few others on board with him to have me do a side trip there from here, while I am in the midwest. If you have been wanting to get your CRT RPTV really tricked out and are in or close to either Chicago or Minneapolis/St. Paul, listen up, because I'm there if you want my services. Here right now, actually, in the case of Minneapolis...

This also goes for only optics cleaning, if that's all you need, and fixed pixel calibration as well.

Whatever you decide to have done, it helps the travel expense bottom line if you have it done now, while I am already nearby. You don't have to pay full boat on getting me to your place, and you help out others, who then don't either.

See post 1318, at this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397&page=44


Mr Bob

I tried one more thing last night, over-riding the EV Shift to 'fool' the camera into thinking there was more light. You can still see the extra blue in the pics though!

105990

105991

105992

105993

105994

I also cropped the pics down.

I tried one more thing last night, over-riding the EV Shift to 'fool' the camera into thinking there was more light. You can still see the extra blue in the pics though!
I also cropped the pics down.

Go to ImageShack and sign up for a FREE account. Upload your pictures there and you can do this (with a little practice):

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3962/hdtv220006lg4.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9503/hdtv220009id5.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6605/hdtv220018wb1.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5469/hdtv220023td8.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8005/hdtv220026dm2.jpg

Note to all: these are the images Lee posted above. Enjoy.
Nice job, Lee, by the way.

Now $680. Wish I had room for another!
http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=293&parent=0

Now we're cooking!

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/73/p1010183wz2.jpg


http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2070/p1010184id8.jpg

now this is what i consider sort of a dmb question, but here it goes anyway. not many ps3 games output a 1080i signal, most only display in 720p. i have my dad's console set to out put all signals except 1080p as the f59's have the internal scaler. the problem is that even if a game does in fact output a 1080i signal, the ps3 only displays a 720p signal that the tv then scales, i would have to mess with the display options of the console every time i was to go back and forth between games. which is inherently better, a 720p resolution scaled to 1080i or a native 1080i signal and why? i'm pretty sure i know the answer but i just want some more info as to why.

p.s. i really cant see a difference between a game running at 1080i native and 720p scaled, maybe i need new glasses.

I would only check:

480p & 1080i in the PS3 Display Settings. This will force everything to 1080i. If for some reason a game down-converts to 480p, then go back into the PS3 Display Settings & select 720p

Awesome shots, Lee and Michael!


:cool:

Mr Bob

which is inherently better, a 720p resolution scaled to 1080i or a native 1080i signal and why? i'm pretty sure i know the answer but i just want some more info as to why.



1080i has roughly twice the pixel density of 720p. Do the math -

Any time there is an up/downconversion you risk the efficacy of the signal being messed with.


Mr Bob

I would only check:

480p & 1080i in the PS3 Display Settings. This will force everything to 1080i. If for some reason a game down-converts to 480p, then go back into the PS3 Display Settings & select 720p


yeah, too bad that 95% of the ps3 catalog supports 720p. weird how the "technically superior" console's games for the most part dont support 1080i out of the box like the 360. oh well :)

After several weeks of being unable to get my green calibrated as well as red and blue, despite changing every service menu item I could find and twisting every dial that didn't electrocute me, I changed out the HDMI cable for a component cable (that small voice you hear in the background is Mr. Bob saying, "I told you so"). Bingo! Green now cooperates, and my colors are spot on.
For the anal-compulsive, here's the whole process:

Play the disc of your choice with the NTSC color bars.
video menu -> color temperature -> high
(since, yes, it seems Hitachi actually spends some time tweaking each set, and they suggest starting everything from there)

RGBOUT 03
COLOR-PBPR -> blend the blue squares into the background blue
TINT-PBPR -> get all the blue squares the same color

RGBOUT 02
GY-PH-PBPR -> get all the green squares the same color
G/BGA-PBPR-HIGH -> blend the green squares into the background

RGBOUT 01
RY-PH-PBPR -> get all the red squares the same color
R/BGA-PBPR-HIGH -> blend the red squares into the background

video menu -> color temperature -> medium

RGBOUT 03
COLOR-MED -> blend the blue squares into the background blue
TINT-MED -> get all the blue squares the same color

RGBOUT 02
G/BGA-PBPR-MED -> blend the green squares into the background

RGBOUT 01
R/BGA-PBPR-MED -> blend the red squares into the background

video menu -> color temperature -> standard

RGBOUT 03
COLOR-STD -> blend the blue squares into the background blue
TINT-STD -> get all the blue squares the same color

RGBOUT 02
G/BGA-PBPR-STD -> blend the green squares into the background

RGBOUT 01
R/BGA-PBPR-STD -> blend the red squares into the background

RGBOUT 00 (duh)

Don't forget to record your initial settings, just in case, and to press "SELECT" to save the changes you made.
If the black boxes aren't completely black, your grayscale is probably off.

My only regret is that I lose the A2's wonderful upscaling ability. Yes, some day I may try another HDMI cable, but not today.

Happy tweaking.

Michael

The best test for color decoding and red push is the scene in Shakespeare in Love - chapter 8, I believe - where Kit is discussing Shakespeare's new play with him, down in the watering hole after the announcement of his new play and sitting at the bar, with the bartender attending them and observing. The closeup of Kit is the best - freeze it - and observe his fleshtones against his outfit. The golds, the purples, the blues...

In a red pushed scenario, if the blues have been optimized with the blue filter/iso test, the blues turn out great, but Kit's fleshtones are way over the top, sunburned and ruddy looking. Not really lifelike at all, destroying any chance of that delicate state known as suspension of disbelief, which is what it's all about.

If you reduce the color intensity a few ticks the fleshtones come in just fine. But you wilt out the blues and greens in his outfit, they are no longer vivid like they should be. With red push, accurate fleshtones and a vivid peacock feather cannot both retain their accuracy in the same scene.

Once the color has been properly linearized, the blues and greens and golds in Kit's outfit stand out as vivid and crisp, like they should be, with his fleshtones totally accurate. Fleshtones and a peacock feather can co-exist in the same scene just fine.

At which point try and move to a scene where you can see all 3 of the guys at the bar - Sh and Kit and the bartender - and each of the 3 facial fleshtones will be slightly different and unique. Another great test of color accuracy (including grayscale, the foundation, which has to be accurate as well): a room full of people, all with accurate - and thus slightly different - fleshtones, each of which is unique and easy to make out.

Mr Bob

Yup, and a fun movie, too.
Please note that, since I'm no longer using HDMI, this is an SD disc going to the set at 480i. Not too shabby.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4994/p1010190lo7.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6120/p1010192lv1.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2430/p1010194po3.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2044/p1010196fg0.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3641/p1010200nr2.jpg

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5158/p1010203bw8.jpg

Sorry, have had to change my title on this thread, due to new information. Mark, the owner, has paid the new retailer $50 to cart his old one away, and has agreed to keep the set for me in his garage until I get there to calibrate his new DLP, whenever the 100 hour usage mark has arrived.

Here's the original post, with modifications -

One of my owners has a convergence problem on his 65" xxx07 series Mit, and has bought new, since he doesn't know how long I will be out of town on this cal tour I am on (I don't either). He is letting them cart it away today, Sunday. He says he will give it away to whoever wants it, as long as they reimburse him the $50 carting-away fee, already paid in with his new purchase. He lives in San Jose.

If you're up on this tech at all, you know that conv issues are a straightforward repair. This set has been calibrated twice already by me, and is superb, he really takes care of his toys.


If you want to approach him directly, his name is Mark, and his email addy is:

mds54@earthlink.net


Contact Mark or me ASAP if you want this almost FREE 65" Mit!

Mr Bob
__________________

Yup, and a fun movie, too.
Please note that, since I'm no longer using HDMI, this is an SD disc going to the set at 480i. Not too shabby.

Is there any way you can post links to the pictures rather than pictures? With a 56K modem it took almost 20 minutes and timed out twice before the page would load. Also having to scroll to read is a PITA. Thank you!

Is there any way you can post links to the pictures rather than pictures? With a 56K modem it took almost 20 minutes and timed out twice before the page would load. Also having to scroll to read is a PITA. Thank you!

I certainly could, but that would make it a PITA for the vast majority of people on this board who want/need pictures to help with the discussions that are taking place. I guess you haven't been to the Screenshots War thread (don't even think about it).
Anyone have any suggestions for addressing this problem?

I also like pictures but:
A. The pictures could be downsized to a reasonable size or
B. Post links as in Lee Bailey's post:

I tried one more thing last night, over-riding the EV Shift to 'fool' the camera into thinking there was more light. You can still see the extra blue in the pics though!

105990

105991

105992

105993

105994

I also cropped the pics down.

And yes, I don't even bother going to the screenshots thread.

I also like pictures but:
A. The pictures could be downsized to a reasonable size or
B. Post links as in Lee Bailey's post:


That's my point. For me, I had to click on each of those links, one at a time, and close them when I was done. Much easier to just scroll through a posting, which was what I was able to do after putting Lee's pictures on ImageShack.
Believe me, you have my sympathies for using a modem. I just want to see if this is a wide-spread issue, in which case we, as a group, will address it, or if you're one of a select unfortunate few.

I have DSL so I guess I'm spoiled. I like the shots on the thread so I dont have to click on each one. Either way works though.

I only adjusted STD on the decoder because I simply don't use the other temps.

I have the A20 and was able to get the colors aligned with the HDMI cable. I really love the upscaling ability of my A20 to much to go with Component.

Most importantly I have signed up for a phone consult with Mr. Bob to settle my grayscale issue (real or imagined) once and for all. Also to get as much info I can for everything I can.

After several weeks of being unable to get my green calibrated as well as red and blue, despite changing every service menu item I could find and twisting every dial that didn't electrocute me, I changed out the HDMI cable for a component cable (that small voice you hear in the background is Mr. Bob saying, "I told you so"). Bingo! Green now cooperates, and my colors are spot on.l I just got the newest Motorola DVR/HD box from my cable co.I bought an HDMI switcher and cables--Hooked everything up,calibrated with DVE.It did not look right.I put the DVE disc in my 360(input 4 with component)--It looked better than my Denon hooked up with HDMI.I don't watch alot of movies(1 or 2 a month)so I left the Denon connected with HDMI to input 1(for upscaling) and hooked the cable box to input 3 with component and duplicated the settings from input 4(Xbox 360) to input 3--the PQ,color are much better through component than they were through HDMI.My colors are also spot on-thanks to your color decoder tweak.My settings through component--Color STD 58 Tint 0 Contrast 38--Brightness 63--My settings through HDMI--Color STD 61--Tint 3 clicks left--Contrast 41--Brightness 68-70. HDMI looks washed out compared to component on my set.

I would only check:

480p & 1080i in the PS3 Display Settings. This will force everything to 1080i. If for some reason a game down-converts to 480p, then go back into the PS3 Display Settings & select 720p

I have a PS3 I have checked 480p.720p,1080i because with the ps3 it will output all of your video at the highest resolution checked which is 1080i. Now when you play games that are 720p it will output at 720p which our tv accepts(and looks outstanding) if you do not check 720p it will downconvert the game to 480p.

After several weeks of being unable to get my green calibrated as well as red and blue, despite changing every service menu item I could find and twisting every dial that didn't electrocute me, I changed out the HDMI cable for a component cable (that small voice you hear in the background is Mr. Bob saying, "I told you so"). Bingo! Green now cooperates, and my colors are spot on.


Tried another HDMI cable. Much to no one's surprise, same thing.
HOWEVER, when I checked upconverted SD, the colors were much more accurate when my Toshiba A2 upconverted via HDMI than when the Hitachi upconverted via component. Since I am likely to view more upconverted material than native HD material, I am settling for "close enough" (which really ain't too bad) and using the HDMI cable.
An interesting experiment, though.
Michael

This weekend was a busy one for me, I decided to plunge to the HD world of satellite TV. I like to install all my stuff so, Installed a new 5lnb dish up on the roof ran 4 runs of cable; 2 to the main tv and two to the MB. The project started Friday around 5PM and finished Sunday morning around 4:30 AM. I'm not compleatly finished but that is another story.

In order to accommodate the new HR-21 I HAD (if you know what I mean) to buy a new receiver (Onkyo 805), so now I have the HD receiver and the Sony Mega changer through HDMI to the Onkyo and then from the Onkyo tho the Hit. I haven't had time to re do my video set up, but by running it through the reciever the picture is OK but it was better before, it looks somewhat dark, good but darker than before, although still very respectable.

Well now that I have HD, I'll start trying photography.

I'll mess with my color decoding next week and see how good I can get It.

Great pictures by the way.

Is there any way you can post links to the pictures rather than pictures? With a 56K modem it took almost 20 minutes and timed out twice before the page would load. Also having to scroll to read is a PITA. Thank you!

That's why I post the links.
You can always turn off 'show pictures' in Internet Explorer.

Tried another HDMI cable. Much to no one's surprise, same thing.
HOWEVER, when I checked upconverted SD, the colors were much more accurate when my Toshiba A2 upconverted via HDMI than when the Hitachi upconverted via component. Since I am likely to view more upconverted material than native HD material, I am settling for "close enough" (which really ain't too bad) and using the HDMI cable.
An interesting experiment, though.
Michael


I know my A2 is staying put on Input 1 (HDMI). It's upscaled SD DVD playback looks too nice. Even if/when I go Blu, the Toshiba will likely remain my main DVD player (BD can send HD from Blu discs over component). Plus, FW 2.8 (as I have mentioned before) has lead to nary an HDMI issue yet.

Bothered me that I could have either good HD or good SD, so came up with a solution (at 3AM, of course):
HD-A2 outputs 1080i via component, calibrated with -PBPR registers.
DVD recorder outputs 480i via component, calibrated with -CBCR registers.
Since I have both versions of DVE, I ran them both at the same time and just switched from input 3 to input 4 and back. The colors look great on both. As expected, the HD image is better defined, so I'm still happy I have a bunch of HD titles, but the SD looks better than ever (though I wouldn't dare post more screenshots :)).
Now if I could find a local station that broadcasts color bars at some time, I could calibrate my -NTSC registers for OTA-HD. Any ideas?

Michael

Well now that I have HD, I'll start trying photography.

You'll be sorry! :)
White balance will be your biggest problem, depending on the camera and the settings it offers. Lee's suggestion of keeping the shutter speed around 1/6 and 1/8 works for me. A tripod and self-timer are mandatory, of course. Mr. Bob suggests changing the Brightness and Contrast settings on the set for the pictures (lowering both), but that didn't help me much. Be very surprised if you end up with anything even vaguely resembling what you see at home.
Hint: PhotoShop helps. Try "auto levels" and "auto color." Usually one or the other works.

Michael

You'll be sorry! :)
White balance will be your biggest problem, depending on the camera and the settings it offers. Lee's suggestion of keeping the shutter speed around 1/6 and 1/8 works for me. A tripod and self-timer are mandatory, of course. Mr. Bob suggests changing the Brightness and Contrast settings on the set for the pictures (lowering both), but that didn't help me much. Be very surprised if you end up with anything even vaguely resembling what you see at home.
Hint: PhotoShop helps. Try "auto levels" and "auto color." Usually one or the other works.

Michael

There is so much I want to do with my set, for starters an optics cleaning, the sharpie hack, then re do my color decoding that as I mentioned I think changed from running the HDMI through the receiver. and after these changes I'll post some pics.

Hey Michael, or Mr. Bob or Lee, you should start a "Screen shot war RPCRT" version I think that your shots are worth the bandwith.

Hey Michael, or Mr. Bob or Lee, you should start a "Screen shot war RPCRT" version I think that your shots are worth the bandwith.

Don't you think your "color decoding" thread will fit the bill? Let us know and we'll go there.
Guess I won't put the tripod away after all.

you got it....

START YOUR ENGINES

With Gran Turismo 5 Prologue hitting in April, I'm gonna pick up a PS3 soon. Any PS3 owners using HDMI? Are you guys having issues? And if you use component, are you allowed to watch Blu-Ray without HDCP downscaling happening?

It's time for my six month maintence, so I was reading through on all the new tweaks. Gonna do the color thing, but I figured I'd wait until I get a PS3 (If I actually do hook that up via HDMI.)

With Gran Turismo 5 Prologue hitting in April, I'm gonna pick up a PS3 soon. Any PS3 owners using HDMI? Are you guys having issues? And if you use component, are you allowed to watch Blu-Ray without HDCP downscaling happening?

It's time for my six month maintence, so I was reading through on all the new tweaks. Gonna do the color thing, but I figured I'd wait until I get a PS3 (If I actually do hook that up via HDMI.)

I have a PS3 hooked-up via HDMI & I have no problems with the 1 game own(MLB 07) Have watched around 12 Blu Rays & everything looks great. Also upgraded my Audio to a ONKYO 605 & my Blu Ray Movies sound amazing...

CASINO ROYALE BR

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_3913.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_3916.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_3924.jpg

With Gran Turismo 5 Prologue hitting in April, I'm gonna pick up a PS3 soon. Any PS3 owners using HDMI? Are you guys having issues? And if you use component, are you allowed to watch Blu-Ray without HDCP downscaling happening?

It's time for my six month maintence, so I was reading through on all the new tweaks. Gonna do the color thing, but I figured I'd wait until I get a PS3 (If I actually do hook that up via HDMI.)

I also have my PS3 running via HDMI and the only issues I have are with the TV itself (image shift and overscan). Other than that, PS3 looks great on this set.

Now if I could find a local station that broadcasts color bars at some time, I could calibrate my -NTSC registers for OTA-HD. Any ideas?

Never mind. It seems to be tied to -CBCR. Go figure.

That's why I post the links.
You can always turn off 'show pictures' in Internet Explorer.

I figured that and I thank you. ;)

Actually I have no problem with smaller pictures loading up. (BFJ 96 screenshots loaded up very fast.) My problem is with pictures that are so big you have to scroll across the page to see the entire picture.

Personally I would like to see all pictures (in a thread such as this) reduced to less than 100 kb. I realize that someone who spends a lot of time tweaking there sets would want mural size posters uploaded for "bragging rights," but it needs to be in a separate thread, (as was posted earlier, the "Screenshot Wars".)

Other than that all I can do is, as you say, turn off pictures. :(

I just noticed that those screens I posted came out kinda bright. Then I realized I was fooling around with the PS3 RGB Setting & when those shots were taken it was set to limited instead of full.

I will post some more screens from the PS3 later on tonight with RGB set to full

I just noticed that those screens I posted came out kinda bright. Then I realized I was fooling around with the PS3 RGB Setting & when those shots were taken it was set to limited instead of full.

I will post some more screens from the PS3 later on tonight with RGB set to full

And you will, of course, put them here, a different thread that we'll use for "screenshot war" stuff:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010146

Thanks for the HDMI/PS3 info. I'll go place an order from monoprice.

I just noticed that those screens I posted came out kinda bright. Then I realized I was fooling around with the PS3 RGB Setting & when those shots were taken it was set to limited instead of full.

I will post some more screens from the PS3 later on tonight with RGB set to full

Just wanted to check-in about RGB Setting within the PS3. It actually seems that setting the PS3 to output YCbCr is better than setting it to RGB Limited or Full. When setting BR Playback to RGB Full, the setting causes Black Crush & colors may seem a little off.

If this seems confusing you can always set the PS3 to Automatic

I also have my PS3 running via HDMI and the only issues I have are with the TV itself (image shift and overscan). Other than that, PS3 looks great on this set.


exactly. image shift is worse when running a ps2 game, as i noticed while playing Black this weekend.

I' going to be tweakingthe decoder this weekend via the ps3 with component for all the componet inputs. should be fun :) can't wait to get the directv hddvr input tweaked right, im sick of the neon reds and blues

exactly. image shift is worse when running a ps2 game, as i noticed while playing Black this weekend.

I' going to be tweakingthe decoder this weekend via the ps3 with component for all the componet inputs. should be fun :) can't wait to get the directv hddvr input tweaked right, im sick of the neon reds and blues

I use a HDMI switcher that runs everything thru input 1. THis allows me to only adjust that input and not to have to do several of them. Just a thought and that may not be the best route. It works for me.

I use a HDMI switcher that runs everything thru input 1. THis allows me to only adjust that input and not to have to do several of them. Just a thought and that may not be the best route. It works for me.

Decoder works based on scanrate (1080i or 480i), not input, so that won't matter.

Decoder works based on scanrate (1080i or 480i), not input, so that won't matter.

so i wont have to run the decoder for each input?

You'll be sorry! :)
White balance will be your biggest problem, depending on the camera and the settings it offers. Lee's suggestion of keeping the shutter speed around 1/6 and 1/8 works for me. A tripod and self-timer are mandatory, of course. Mr. Bob suggests changing the Brightness and Contrast settings on the set for the pictures (lowering both), but that didn't help me much. Be very surprised if you end up with anything even vaguely resembling what you see at home.
Hint: PhotoShop helps. Try "auto levels" and "auto color." Usually one or the other works.

Michael

there is a thread going on over at teamxbox (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=567656&page=186) dedicated to screenshots, the guys on there are more than helpful when it comes to camera setting suggestions. oh and know that your screens are always going to be a bit blurry and a bit brighter compared to fixed pixel compared to what you are seeing in person, i believe that is due to the interlacing, someone correct me if im wrong.

Hitachis can look every bit this good, will be glad to take screenshots of the next Hit's I calibrate. Forgive me for posting them here in a Hit thread, but the possibilities for CRT RPTV are what I am after, and Hit makes some of the best CRT RPTVs. I definitely want to shoot some Hitachi screens soon, so get me one to calibrate!

:rolleyes:

Credit for the supertight image structure of these pix goes to its owner, Chad Gilbertson, of Ellsworth, WI.

This was a limited contribution on my part, I only helped him with the deeper optics cleaning and dialing in the grayscale on sm, which he had nearly already pegged himself, in User. I did the Cantilever Technique for him, after which he saw that 2 of his colors were still out of focus on optical. He was going to correct that ASAP after I left. These pix are with more optical focus error than I allow in my full calibrations.

Awesome caretaking by an owner! I was very impressed -


http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2142/mntrip308screenshotsofcyt2.jpg[/URL]


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7756/mntrip308screenshotsofcde4.jpg[/URL]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4689/mntrip308screenshotsofcry8.jpg[/URL]


Our sleepy hero, about to get a rude awakening -

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5871/mntrip308screenshotsofcve6.jpg[/URL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6717/mntrip308screenshotsofccf6.jpg[/URL]

This set required restoration of the brightness from a relatively dim picture, which nearly every set I encounter these days in this series, needs. When I start, the Black Level is having to be run at +12-15 on every 510/610/710 I have been doing these days, to have enough light to even attempt to see into the dark areas. When I am finished, it is running at midpoint again, with full punch, as these pictures show.

This set is around 7 years old -

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7441/mntrip308screenshotsofdaq4.jpg[/URL]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7659/mntrip308screenshotsofdfv0.jpg[/URL]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3064/mntrip308screenshotsofdzu4.jpg[/URL]

Ken had already reduced his overscan quite effectively, using registers I had forgotten about in the sm, which I will continue to use in the future. My thanks to him for this little refresher course!

I was able to charge him half the usual o'scan reduction fee, to take over and straighten out whatever was still left to do, which was still a bit substantial out at the edges.

Still, the material in the main viewing area was quite tightly stitched together, emminently enjoyable. Pioneers have some quirks that take some getting used to, to come up with the picture being coherent all around. And of course the Pio grid is totally blank at the top, leaving several inches of height without a grid to align to -

Not bad end results for a 7 year old display. I'd say Elite 510/610/710 owners have at least 3 more good years to look forward to out of their sets, of their pix looking just as good as we have here. Even longer for the x30 series, like the first ones up there of Cars, whose 530 is 2 years younger than the x10 models shown in the second and third sets of pix -



This first one shows how blue-white the grayscale usually is, OOB -

Memento -

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2581/copyofcopyofmntrip308scry8.jpg[/URL]


This is before the cleaning and calibration. Remember, the blue outlining does not appear to the naked eye, it is an artifact of the digital photography we are doing here.

Notice the bleariness, and the internal reflection on his cheek, of his bright forehead, on the opposing portion of the screen -

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5631/copyofmntrip308screenshkz0.jpg[/URL]

This is after the cleaning, then deep cleaning, and blackening of the metal plating with big and small Sharpie pens. Bleariness and internal reflection gone -

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2227/copy2ofmntrip308screenson5.jpg[/URL]




Hugh Jackman

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/4295/copy2ofmntrip308screensul4.jpg[/URL]

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6441/copy2ofmntrip308screensop7.jpg[/URL]

Amazing pics!!! Lets see the fixed pixel bunch stand up to the test of time like these do.

so i wont have to run the decoder for each input?

Nope.
The disadvantage is that you're "stuck" with the settings you have with the (one main) device of your choice.
I came up with a workaround for someone else: use a different temperature setting. Set up your main device on -STD (either -CBCR or -PBPR, depending), then calibrate the second device (changing the user menu temp to medium) on -MED. Worked for him.
Michael

Nope.
The disadvantage is that you're "stuck" with the settings you have with the (one main) device of your choice.
I came up with a workaround for someone else: use a different temperature setting. Set up your main device on -STD (either -CBCR or -PBPR, depending), then calibrate the second device (changing the user menu temp to medium) on -MED. Worked for him.
Michael

good idea

Michael came up with this fix for me.My dvd player is on input 1(HDMI) and my cable box is on input 3(component) if I did the decoder tweak I could get either the dvd or the cable box looking great but not both.I set the color temp on input 1 to med and left input 3 color temp std.The med color temp had too much red for my taste, so I toned it down in the med color setiings in the sm. Both inputs look real good now.After having this set for a little over a year,last night I was messing with the settings in the cable box.My SD has never been good,while HD is awesome.On the cable box,I left it at 1080i wide,but changed the "preserve 4:3-Pic-480i " to "Sidebar 4:3 Pic". This made a drastic change in SD picture quality. I may get brave and clean the optics this weekend.

Quick shot: Yankees VS Rays HD

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_4051.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_4055.jpg

there is a thread going on over at teamxbox (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=567656&page=186) dedicated to screenshots, the guys on there are more than helpful when it comes to camera setting suggestions. oh and know that your screens are always going to be a bit blurry and a bit brighter compared to fixed pixel compared to what you are seeing in person, i believe that is due to the interlacing, someone correct me if im wrong.

still waiting for someone to confirm or deny this :) i know my ignorance cant last long around here

still waiting for someone to confirm or deny this :) i know my ignorance cant last long around here

CRT will never be brighter than Fixed Pixel Display due Burn-In possibility. As for being Sharper, Fixed Pixel might have a leg-up also in this Dept, but when it comes to OVERALL Picture Quality CRT is "The King" :D

anyone pick up the DVE blu-ray yet? it comes with color filters(which we dont need) and a grayscale sheet. amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0******sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1207400717&sr=1-3) has it for $16.95.

oh and know that your screens are always going to be a bit blurry and a bit brighter compared to fixed pixel compared to what you are seeing in person, i believe that is due to the interlacing, someone correct me if im wrong.

I'll put my fully cleaned and calibrated CRT sets up against anybody's fixed pixel display at any time, re. picture sharpness. And I will ALWAYS win any contests about the blacks, and their depth thereof.

As far as picture brightness, I am not concerned about that, because along with brighter picture comes compromised blacks. I'll take pure blacks and control my room lighting instead - like they do at the mall theaters, the REAL big screens - any day.


Mr Bob

anyone pick up the DVE blu-ray yet? it comes with color filters(which we dont need) and a grayscale sheet. amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0******sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1207400717&sr=1-3) has it for $16.95.

I have not seen a fixed pixel yet that has color isolation availbility. As such, no, Hit CRT owners don't, but if you own a fixed pixel you want to calibrate, you do need the filters. DVE's are the best I have seen.


Mr Bob

CRT will never be brighter than Fixed Pixel Display due Burn-In possibility. As for being Sharper, Fixed Pixel might have a leg-up also in this Dept, but when it comes to OVERALL Picture Quality CRT is "The King" :D

And part of the reason digital is sharper is becasue of the built in "edge enhancement", also know as the pixel grid. That being said, I do wish my set had the inherent sharpness of a digital without the false sense of sharpness and the harshness of a digital.

And part of the reason digital is sharper is becasue of the built in "edge enhancement", also know as the pixel grid. That being said, I do wish my set had the inherent sharpness of a digital without the false sense of sharpness and the harshness of a digital.

Have you tried playing with APRTR- and SRTGA?

i was going to try some tweakign of my white balance today but i went into the service menu and the tried clicking on "white balance high, med, and standard" but i could not get to any adjustment, where are the white balance settings?

what is the name of that manual grayscale meter that DVE mentions and where can I get one?

i was going to try some tweakign of my white balance today but i went into the service menu and the tried clicking on "white balance high, med, and standard" but i could not get to any adjustment, where are the white balance settings? When you get into the SM- scroll down to which ever one you want to adjust-use right arrow on remote-once there, hit enter on which one you want to adjust-use left or right arrow to adjust and hit enter to save.

Have you tried playing with APRTR- and SRTGA?

Yep, my pic is sharp, no doubt about that. But a good digital set will still be sharper than a CRT set. It can't be helped. Not that CRT can't be sharp, but a rear projection set just doesn't have the capability of surpassing or even meeting a good digital in sharpness. Not something like a calibrated Kuro especially. But many times those sets can look decidedly un-filmlike, harsh, and just lack smoothness. I believe it is partially because of the pixel grid, no matter if it's 1080p or not. The black outline of the pixels are still there and help create a sense of sharpness. Not to mention the inherent sharpness of the technology.

When you get into the SM- scroll down to which ever one you want to adjust-use right arrow on remote-once there, hit enter on which one you want to adjust-use left or right arrow to adjust and hit enter to save.

That's from the main service menu menu (yup, yup). Easier to go into TA1360 and scroll up from RGBOUT and you'll get to the same registers; the advantage of these is that the changes are "live." As always, write down the initial values, just in case.

Thanks to the generosity of superleo, there is now a thread for brag-type screenshots. Screenshots that demonstrate problems and/or solutions should probably continue to be displayed here. However, screenshots meant to demonstrate to the world at large the amazing capability of these sets are welcome, thanks to superleo's generosity, at a thread he started at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13436422

Please come by there and contribute, or just enjoy and comment.

Michael

I haven't posted on this thread since last Spring and I haven't read everything that's been written since then but a sudden problem has popped up with my set and I was hoping one of you might steer me in the right direction.

I have the Hit 51" and yesterday and did a DCAM convergence in accord with the method described at the beginning of this thread. I have done this a couple times before always successfully and yesterday I finished, the set looked great. This morning however I inadvertently unplugged the set while cleaning and when I plugged it back in and turned it on, the convergence had gone way off - with red green and blue separated by a half inch or so on the screen. I thought that was odd because I always thought the convergence info would hold in the rom chips even with the set turned off. Note that I had NOT bumped or moved the set at all while I was cleaning. Also note that I HAD remembered to do the ROM write step after DCAM convergence yesterday.

But the problem is even worse than that. Suddenly the image is crooked. If I put up a grid, the grid tilts down to the right and is off center as well. You can also see this on any station ID text that appears, that it tilts down to the right.

Anyway, my first question is what the heck happened? and second, can I fix it?

Thanks in advance for any help

Mark

Try turning OFF the TV with the POWER Button. Then turn the TV ON while pushing the INPUT button on the Front of the TV & see what happens

Thanks BFJ I tried that must nothing changed. I did a quick 9 point convergence and then turned off and unplugged the set again to see what would happen and the same thing occurred again. What I'm most concerned about is the way the image is "tilted". Anyway any other help would be appreciated

I've continued fiddling with my set. I did another dcam convergence and got it good, did the ROM write, pushed the mute button to get the grid back, touched it up a bit more and did another ROM write. It looked good for about a minute and then the convergence started to drift out immediately. This time I didn't turn the set off at all. I just put a movie on and started watching and it was quickly obvious what was going on.

What could be causing this? Is it something I can rectify?

Guitarman: If you're seeing this, I just wanna say I'm currently using your Graycolor settings. I'm going though massive searches trying to find ssj2 graycolor settings, and have noticed you mention a couple of times nobody acknowledging yours. Seem pretty dang good. Though I'd still like to find ssj2 (since he also has lens striping, lens hood, and his contrast set at 20.)

For reference before doing the color decoder thing, I put the picture that was posted in this thread and compared it to my CRT monitor (set at 6500K). Normal color (which I was using) was way to yellow. High color was way too blue. Warm was the best of the stock color settings. Then I tried Lee Bailey's and yours and was pretty darn pleased with yours. It wasn't a perfect match with the monitor image, but it was significantly better than the grayscale for Color warm.

So I've done the color decoder for my components and was able to not have to make any compromises. Once I clean everything, and do a convergence in DCAM (haven't done convergence in 6 months), I'm expecting to be very pleased.

EDIT: I just creepy stalked all of ssj2's posts, and despite the post from Lee Bailey saying ssj2 did post his settings in some thread, I couldn't find it. I opened every post that was even remotely promising. Also did advanced searches on user SSJ2 and DRV.

Paul33993, although I think the chances are slim, I hope you're a hot chick stalking me!

I'm at work now but will check my grayscale settings and post them later.

Nope. Just some anal dude trying to squeeze the most out of my set:) Really appreciate those settings though.

Actually altered Guitarman's slightly by eye and after redoing color calibration the image is really close to my CRT monitors. But if I can tweak it a little more, I'm gonna try.

Finally recalibrated my standard temp according to AVIA. Have to say, it's still not totally to my liking. Just as before when I did it, too much red for my tastes, and flesh tones aren't as natural as when I do it by eye. But it's interesting to look at the difference between my calibration by eye, and the cal job using "reference" marterials. It's kinda growing on me. Wish one of you guys were out in Utah so you cold stop in and tell me what you think.

Continue fiddling with my set and i've discovered that it DOES hold convergence when I do convergence from the user menu in the set up screen.

The problem is the DCAM convergence.

I go through all the steps as described at the beginning of this thread for getting good convergence, push "aspect" for "ROM Write?", push "aspect" again and get the green dots indicating it has finished (though it only takes like two seconds, not the 20 suggested in the DCAM manual). Per Mr. Bob's suggestion way back when, I don't reinitialize Magic Focus after doing the ROM write. The problem, which had never happened before after previous DCAM adjustments is that the convergence now starts to drift almost right away and within 30 minutes the colors are separated by like an inch on the screen and of course the set looks horrible. The set just started to display this problem a couple days ago after my first DCAM convergence in 6 months or so.

I'm wondering if the ROM write is not working

Does anybody know what would cause this? Is something failing on my set. Any thoughts here would be appreciated. Hopefully Mr. Bob will chime in here.

Thanks.

Continue fiddling with my set and i've discovered that it does hold convergence when I do convergence from the user menu in the set up screen. The problem is the DCAM convergence. I go through all the steps as described at the beginning of this thread, push "aspect" for "ROM Write?", push "aspect" again and get the green dots indicating it has finished but then it starts drifting way out of convergence right away (the colors are separated by like an inch on the screen with 15 or 20 minutes).

I'm wondering if the ROM write is not working

Does anybody know what would cause this? Is something failing on my set. Any thoughts here would be appreciated.

Thanks.

A question for Bob if there ever was one.

Weird that Magic Focus 117 pt "sticks" but DCAM does not.

Yikes. Took my screen off to clean my mirror. Mirror was surprising dustfree (Since the area is very dusty and it's one of the few things NOT dusty.) But when I peeked into the guns, crud galore. The blue gun even had a little dead insect (Magnified a lot larger than it actually was.) So I opened my word file with all my notes I've taken and looked up the deep cleaning instructions.

I'll post some pictures of the process tomorrow. Also finally have a good picture of my simple & effective lens hood. Glad to see someone finally acknowledged using my plans (5-10 pages back.)

Paul33993, below are my settings for getting a 6500K greyscale using the HCFR software and the OptixXR colorimeter (aka DTP94). To start with, brightness is at 55, contrast is 20, and electronic focus on all CRTs is as tight as possible. I hope these help.

G DRV -- 56
R DRV -- 4F
R CUT -- 75
G CUT -- 7A
B CUT -- 72

Well,I opened up my set Sat. and cleaned the crt's and the mirror.It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.Upon first inspection,it didn't look that dirty.While I was in there, I covered the crt's with an old t-shirt and did the black-out thing---started off with a Sharpie,--ended up using Krylon flat black.I wet the mirror down good with cleaner and held up another t-shirt in front of the mirror-to keep the over-spray off the mirror-took about 3 minutes.I cleaned the mirror 3 times and the crt's twice. This set has never looked this good.Thanks for all of the tips and walk-throughs.

Paul33993, below are my settings for getting a 6500K greyscale using the HCFR software and the OptixXR colorimeter (aka DTP94). To start with, brightness is at 55, contrast is 20, and electronic focus on all CRTs is as tight as possible. I hope these help.

G DRV -- 56
R DRV -- 4F
R CUT -- 75
G CUT -- 7A
B CUT -- 72

What COLOR Temp are these for?

BFJ96. You can overwrite any of the color temp settings with these. For me I chose standard, but it doesn't matter.

BFJ96. You can overwrite any of the color temp settings with these. For me I chose standard, but it doesn't matter.

You're right, it won't matter. Because it won't be right for anyone but you. That's the point to CALIBRATING the set. You will even find that, over time, your numbers will change, just due to changes in the set over time.

A question for Bob if there ever was one.

Weird that Magic Focus 117 pt "sticks" but DCAM does not.


No idea. Have never done anything more in terms of repair on a Hit than conv repairs.

Sorry -


Mr Bob

BFJ96. You can overwrite any of the color temp settings with these. For me I chose standard, but it doesn't matter.

You're right, it won't matter. Because it won't be right for anyone but you. That's the point to CALIBRATING the set. You will even find that, over time, your numbers will change, just due to changes in the set over time.

I asked because when Kevin Miller Calibrated my set, he tweak more than just those SM Values to get me to 6500k, especially tweaks in the COLOR Settings. Thing is I don't remember which Values he tweaked

Paul33993, below are my settings for getting a 6500K greyscale using the HCFR software and the OptixXR colorimeter (aka DTP94). To start with, brightness is at 55, contrast is 20, and electronic focus on all CRTs is as tight as possible. I hope these help.

G DRV -- 56
R DRV -- 4F
R CUT -- 75
G CUT -- 7A
B CUT -- 72

Appreciate the settings. I ultimately found modifying Guitarman's settings to:

G DRV -- 55
R DRV -- 4D
R CUT -- 83
G CUT -- 7F
B CUT -- 90

got me incredibly close to the greyscale picture as it was being displayed by my CRT monitor set to 6500K. I suppose it's possible the monitor is off, but it's overcast, neutral, and just looks right.

It really is surprising to see how everyone's settings vary that wildly (and yet everyone seems to have the same defaults.)

EDIT: I was using the picture posted in this thread, which is also the first image that appears in google when you type greyscale test image. It's a good picture to really isolate how the settings are affecting things.

http://www.normankoren.com/Stepchart_large_bw2.jpg

SECOND EDIT: If anyone knows how I could warm the right side boxes, without affecting the left side, let me know. The overhead picture looks very close. And the left side boxes are spot on. I just wish I could warm the right side boxes a touch without throwing the rest out of sync (or maybe my set is just better than my monitor.)

I asked because when Kevin Miller Calibrated my set, he tweak more than just those SM Values to get me to 6500k, especially tweaks in the COLOR Settings. Thing is I don't remember which Values he tweaked

Standard, Warm, and High have separate settings for greyscale (which I was asking ssj2 for) and color. So if you're altering both the greyscale settings and the color settings; Normal, Warm, and High are basically being wiped of everything and it's irrelevant which you pick.

You (when doing it yourself) definitely do wanna recalibrate your color settings, but the last couple of pages have detailed how to redo the color decoder in the SM and it works really well.

I asked because when Kevin Miller Calibrated my set, he tweak more than just those SM Values to get me to 6500k, especially tweaks in the COLOR Settings. Thing is I don't remember which Values he tweaked

Easiest way to find that out would be to compare the default TA1360 items in the service manual to what your TV's TA1360 items are.

But, the settings will be different for every set. Though not necessarily by much. I'll post what my current settings are later this week. They have changed over the last 2 years.

Easiest way to find that out would be to compare the default TA1360 items in the service manual to what your TV's TA1360 items are.

Lee where would I find such Manual?

I wouldn't use the manuals settings as something to use. My TV set had different OOB settings than the manual. I have tried some of those settings and some are right on while others are far off. Especially when dealing with grayscale. Every set is different is true. I have tried others settings and they are way off for my set. Also there are more grayscale settings than just Drv and Cut settings. When I get home I will check and list them if someone else hasn't already.

If anyone knows how I could warm the right side boxes, without affecting the left side, let me know. The overhead picture looks very close. And the left side boxes are spot on. I just wish I could warm the right side boxes a touch without throwing the rest out of sync (or maybe my set is just better than my monitor.)

Sounds like something lens striping may help.

You're right, it won't matter. Because it won't be right for anyone but you. That's the point to CALIBRATING the set. You will even find that, over time, your numbers will change, just due to changes in the set over time.

I agree completely. I only posted my settings because they were specifically asked for. I'm well aware my settings will change -- I've re-calibrated the grayscale on this and my other HD/SD displays/projectors a few times.

I agree completely. I only posted my settings because they were specifically asked for. I'm well aware my settings will change -- I've re-calibrated the grayscale on this and my other HD/SD displays/projectors a few times.

YOU HAVE OTHER DISPLAYS!!!!!!????? Blasphemy!!!!!

Off With His Head!!!!!!!!!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2399403892_32315077e9.jpg?v=0

All pictures have been resized and downsampled to be 56k friendly. The is a cutout from my desktop wallpaper. It's a Scout from Team Fortress 2 and it has a ton of bloom on his hands and face. So what, you ask?

When I was going through my notes on how to deep clean lenses, I saw some discussion on the STATG1: 00 (06) and STATG2: 03 (00). The defaults were 00 and 03. The discussion on STATG2 was: "Reducing STATG20 from its default "03" setting to "00" helped tame the overly bright whites a bit."

I've had these changed to the recommended settings since I bought it and now completely disagree with the STATG20 setting. It seems to affect the high end brightness in the opposite direction. When I place it back to the default 3, the blooming torch on the Scout goes significantly down (while hardly affecting anything but the really bright areas.) 1, 2, and 3 raises in incremental order the brightness of that bloom. Needless to say, I've set it back to 0.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2399403880_145858f0f2.jpg?v=0

If anyone ever needs to do deep cleaning of their lenses, there's a picture of it disassembled.

There's eight screws and you obviously ONLY want to unscrew the 4 screws attaching the lenses. DON'T unscrew the plate and expose your coolant.

The inside of my case was pretty clean, but those bottom lenses are a cup and crud likes to accumulate there.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2311/2399403894_280131cf2e.jpg?v=0

Speaking of cleaning, I picked up a microfiber duster from Walmart (2.xx dollars) and it works great for gently dusty away dust from the screen. It's in the mop section.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403904/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403902/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403896/

When I had the screen removed, I had a chance to take some better pictures of my lens hood. 1st picture is without, 2nd is with, and 3rd is a top down. Searching my posts "lens hood" will give you directions and it literally takes about 15 minutes for anyone who interested. It can even be inserted from the backside of the set.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure the actual dimensions might be posted with one of the flickr photos. So searching probably isn't even necessary. Just cycle through the photos.

Sounds like something lens striping may help.

I've done lens striping a while ago (even posted my somewhat unique way.) I finally dialed in the greyscale to what I consider a great place (I think it's somewhere between guitarman's and ssj2's.)

G DRV -- 56
R DRV -- 4F
R CUT -- 83
G CUT -- 73
B CUT -- 85

And with that I think I'm done. Hopefully when I check back in for the 6 month cleaning, I won't have to read through a million posts again to understand some new lingo. Everything has to have been uncovered, right? I'm glad about the recent additions though. Some good stuff. Even the service menu DCAM brightness levels was awesome. No more eye cancer settings when doing convergence:)

And with that I think I'm done. Hopefully when I check back in for the 6 month cleaning, I won't have to read through a million posts again to understand some new lingo. Everything has to have been uncovered, right? I'm glad about the recent additions though. Some good stuff. Even the service menu DCAM brightness levels was awesome. No more eye cancer settings when doing convergence:)

Now check your convergence with a dot pattern. There will probably be some spots that can be tightened further.
See, it never ends.:)

Care to send your screenshots to superleo's thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13436422

See you there.
Michael

Lee where would I find such Manual?

http://www.vancebaldwin.com/shop_guest.asp?
Login as Guest. Search for model of set. Download huge pdf. Go blind and crazy like the rest of us.:)

Now check your convergence with a dot pattern. There will probably be some spots that can be tightened further.
See, it never ends.:)

Care to send your screenshots to superleo's thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13436422

See you there.
Michael

I'm gonna try and take some photos and post them in that thread. Hopefully it yields better results than the last time I tried taking pictures. I had good settings from the camera manual, but my shaky hands completely ruined it.

I'm gonna try and take some photos and post them in that thread. Hopefully it yields better results than the last time I tried taking pictures. I had good settings from the camera manual, but my shaky hands completely ruined it.

Absolutely need a tripod and self-timer. Absolutely.
I will post my camera settings there soon. Lots of trial and error, but when the results are good, it not only looks good, it feels great. Like any other accomplishment.
Enjoy.
Michael

for example:
http://dealnews.com/53-Camera-Tripod-with-Bubble-Level-for-16-free-shipping/222420.html

Now check your convergence with a dot pattern. There will probably be some spots that can be tightened further.
See, it never ends.:)

Care to send your screenshots to superleo's thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13436422

See you there.
Michael

I'm glad someone else agrees with me on doing convergence with a dot pattern. Lines are good, but I got my convergence super tight and the sharpest picture I've ever had using the dot pattern.

Lee where would I find such Manual?

Here:
5XF59 Manual (http://www.lbaileyht.com/57F59Service.pdf)

I have to convey an experience. I went to my mother's house last night and she asked me to adjust the picture on her set. She has a 32 inch Polaroid LCD. First of all, she was of course watching it on it's vivid setting. Horrible! So I adjusted it on the user settings to the best of my abilities to the best I could get it in teh short amount of time I had before I had to go. Huge improvement, but there was nothing saving that tv. Banding city! Noise for days, colors were horrible, just a horrible all around little set. God I'm glad I went with CRT.

Here:
5XF59 Manual (http://home.comcast.net/~leebailey00/57F59Service.pdf)

Thanks Lee. Do you think this manual will help me with my F510 which is the model right before the F59?

Thanks Lee. Do you think this manual will help me with my F510 which is the model right before the F59?

Maybe. Now go to Vance Baldwin and search for 51F510. Download the pdf there.

NO! What am I doing? I've gone back to read some posts and I'm beginning to talk myself into the scheimpfluge mod. I never understood the process before, but now I get it. My set looks awesome! Why can't I leave it alone? And why am I gonna continue to read further posts? Taking the screen back off, redoing mechanical & electrical focus, redoing the DCAM AGAIN! This is why I drop out for large stretches. I'm too anal to see tweaks and not do them. And, yet, I'm off to read and bookmark:)

I'm glad someone else agrees with me on doing convergence with a dot pattern. Lines are good, but I got my convergence super tight and the sharpest picture I've ever had using the dot pattern.

What kind of pattern is this? And where are you getting it? Is it on Avia or DVE? My search on google left me with no good answer.

I used to use outside convergence grids, but with the tweak to tame the brightness in DCAM, I used the internal grid that was green. Red on green. Then blue on green. Red on green is a joy for the eyes. Blue on green not as much. But the grid would blink and during blinks you'd get pretty good "dots" that ran vertical and horizontal to the point you were calibrating.

What kind of pattern is this? And where are you getting it? Is it on Avia or DVE? My search on google left me with no good answer.

I used to use outside convergence grids, but with the tweak to tame the brightness in DCAM, I used the internal grid that was green. Red on green. Then blue on green. Red on green is a joy for the eyes. Blue on green not as much. But the grid would blink and during blinks you'd get pretty good "dots" that ran vertical and horizontal to the point you were calibrating.

I use AVIA. I rented mine from BlockBuster online.

Cool. I have Avia and DVE. Still reading, but I'm pretty sure I'll have a chance to use it soon since I'm still sold on the sfheklhsfhek technique and that's gonna require me to redo my DCAM again.

What kind of pattern is this? And where are you getting it? Is it on Avia or DVE? My search on google left me with no good answer.

Avia: Advanced Avia -> repeat pattern on (which I keep forgetting) -> video test patterns -> geometry and convergence -> dots -> 50IRE

DVE HD only: video tests -> tests and calibration -> video calibration -> (up 2 to) dots

You didn't think we were going to let you just disappear for another six months, did you?

Cool. I have Avia and DVE. Still reading, but I'm pretty sure I'll have a chance to use it soon since I'm still sold on the sfheklhsfhek technique and that's gonna require me to redo my DCAM again.

Actually, no. You just need to know the play button in DCAM mode is "raster position" and you move the whole grid at one time. Pick the color to move in the usual way (info = green, etc.).
Or you can spend an hour doing it the hard way.:)
And that's "Scheimpfluge," from the Klingon for "And you thought you were done? Ha!"

Actually, no. You just need to know the play button in DCAM mode is "raster position" and you move the whole grid at one time. Pick the color to move in the usual way (info = green, etc.).
Or you can spend an hour doing it the hard way.:)
And that's "Scheimpfluge," from the Klingon for "And you thought you were done? Ha!"

I just typed S and mashed a bunch of keys for that last spelling. I'm not convinced the original dude didn't do the same thing:)

Good tips in those last two posts. And I've bookmarked those posts and labeled them last read. I'm not gonna make the mistake I made last time and start reading a couple makes too late (and miss something really important.)

But I was watching You, Me, and Dupree last night on HD HBO and it was incredible. The colors and the pop were outstanding. And it had incredible 3D depth.

Which got me thinking, I don't wanna go through that hassle again. So I've bookmarked and taken some notes, and I'm gonna do another thorough cleaning in 3-4 months and I'll do the Scheimpfluge then.

Which got me thinking, I don't wanna go through that hassle again. So I've bookmarked and taken some notes, and I'm gonna do another thorough cleaning in 3-4 months and I'll do the Scheimpfluge then.

I've got a "to do" list, too. The screen's actually been on for a month or so, and I'm not eager to pop it off again soon. But when I do, there's a bunch of things to "check.":)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2399403892_32315077e9.jpg?v=0


http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403904/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403902/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403896/

When I had the screen removed, I had a chance to take some better pictures of my lens hood. 1st picture is without, 2nd is with, and 3rd is a top down. Searching my posts "lens hood" will give you directions and it literally takes about 15 minutes for anyone who interested. It can even be inserted from the backside of the set.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure the actual dimensions might be posted with one of the flickr photos. So searching probably isn't even necessary. Just cycle through the photos.


So in what area would you say your lens hood helped the most. I'm thinking of doing one myself. My main issue is lens flare and I've heard they help a lot with that. But if it's not worth doing, I won't bother.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2399403892_32315077e9.jpg?v=0

All pictures have been resized and downsampled to be 56k friendly. The is a cutout from my desktop wallpaper. It's a Scout from Team Fortress 2 and it has a ton of bloom on his hands and face. So what, you ask?

When I was going through my notes on how to deep clean lenses, I saw some discussion on the STATG1: 00 (06) and STATG2: 03 (00). The defaults were 00 and 03. The discussion on STATG2 was: "Reducing STATG20 from its default "03" setting to "00" helped tame the overly bright whites a bit."

I've had these changed to the recommended settings since I bought it and now completely disagree with the STATG20 setting. It seems to affect the high end brightness in the opposite direction. When I place it back to the default 3, the blooming torch on the Scout goes significantly down (while hardly affecting anything but the really bright areas.) 1, 2, and 3 raises in incremental order the brightness of that bloom. Needless to say, I've set it back to 0.


I also had to change my STATG2 becasue of the blooming whites. I can't remember off hand what settings I have for it. But I remember wathing the Fifth Element, the scene in te beginning where the "Father" has the vial of poison. ON one setting, the vial is blooking like crazy, and you can barely make out what it is. But changing the calue brings it down to where you can see it much more clearly. I later changed it to bring down the overall light level of the picture to where I liked it.

So in what area would you say your lens hood helped the most. I'm thinking of doing one myself. My main issue is lens flare and I've heard they help a lot with that. But if it's not worth doing, I won't bother.

You know what, I did it like the 1st month I bought the set. That was a long time ago and my impression was it made a real difference. But maybe it was just a placebo effect.

If you turn the set on at night, you're still gonna see the lens flare from the Input number against the black background. Without painting the insides of the lenses, you're not gonna completely eliminate it. But I feel it makes an improvement. Placebo effect? Who knows. I also feel it helped with the blacks. But my impressions were all made before I had the set dialed in.

I will say this, however, I went a couple days last summer when I had it out and I felt there was something "off" about the picture the whole time.

If you have a 51 inch set, though, you can cut one out in 5 minutes. Just buy some black cardboard from Target or Walmart and cut along the dimensions. It'll cost you 3 dollars and 10 minutes total. If you think it sucks, you're really not out a whole lot.

There's more elaborate versions of lens hoods, but from all my anal observations, I couldn't for the life of me see what good having sides did. And if you don't have to build sides, it's super simple to do. Just let gravity do it's work.

I also had to change my STATG2 becasue of the blooming whites. I can't remember off hand what settings I have for it. But I remember wathing the Fifth Element, the scene in te beginning where the "Father" has the vial of poison. ON one setting, the vial is blooking like crazy, and you can barely make out what it is. But changing the calue brings it down to where you can see it much more clearly. I later changed it to bring down the overall light level of the picture to where I liked it.

My wallpaper on my PC has some awesome contrasts of extreme bloom and really dark areas and by sheer luck I was futzing with that control with my PC in the background. I tried using my digital camera to capture footage of his hands and face when I cycled through those settings, but the quality was so low you couldn't see it. But the effect was undeniable. Only the bloom areas were being effected... and those were areas I didn't want any brighter.

I was fooling around with my grayscale (still off) and color decoder. I know the previous post said to adjust color std and tint std but didn't mention color cbcr. I found this adjusted my decoder as well under std color settings ( i dont put it on the others). Using this I was able to dial in the last 2 boxes on the end of the blue color bars (never could before). Should I have messed with the cbcr setting?

I'm just messing around at thispoint. I have a phone consult with Mr. Bob coming up.

also I found that the drv high and drv std settings both affected my grayscale using the DVE 20/40/60/80/100 gray patterns as reference. I guess I thought only std should work since that is where I have it set on.

My wallpaper on my PC has some awesome contrasts of extreme bloom and really dark areas and by sheer luck I was futzing with that control with my PC in the background. I tried using my digital camera to capture footage of his hands and face when I cycled through those settings, but the quality was so low you couldn't see it. But the effect was undeniable. Only the bloom areas were being effected... and those were areas I didn't want any brighter.

STATG02 is at 02 on mine. And it's perfect

also I found that the drv high and drv std settings both affected my grayscale using the DVE 20/40/60/80/100 gray patterns as reference. I guess I thought only std should work since that is where I have it set on.

The high temp settings seem to affect everything. They're the only ones Hitachi talks about setting in the manual (to 10500K). I have found the safest course is to leave your high settings where they were out of the box (which is different from the defaults) and make your changes in standard or medium (which do not seem to affect each other).
Michael

The high temp settings seem to affect everything. They're the only ones Hitachi talks about setting in the manual (to 10500K). I have found the safest course is to leave your high settings where they were out of the box (which is different from the defaults) and make your changes in standard or medium (which do not seem to affect each other).
Michael

I'll reset them and see. My Med seems to have no effect. Did you have any info on the color cbcr in the decoder?

Ok guys I think I'm finally going to get the courage up to open my TVs and line the inside with Duvetyne. Should I just do the bottom, or should I do everything except the mirror and screen? What is the best way to attach the Duvetyne, spray adhesive, 2 sided tape, etc? Where is a good place to order it online (Amazon doesn't have it:( )?
Is it better to remove the front screen or the back cover to do this on the F59 series? Are there instructions for doing this on here somewhere? How about the directions for lens hoods on the 51F59 and 57F59 (I'll probably be doing this to two 57F59s and one 51F59 as well as a 61SDX01B). How much Duvetyne will I need to do all 4 TVs?

I realize that many of these questions have probably been answered before, but I've tried searching and can't find them. If someone could post a link or let me know the post number I would really appreciate it. I might even try to put some kind of a manual together with pictures when I get around to doing this and post it here.

Ok guys I think I'm finally going to get the courage up to open my TVs and line the inside with Duvetyne. Should I just do the bottom, or should I do everything except the mirror and screen? What is the best way to attach the Duvetyne, spray adhesive, 2 sided tape, etc? Where is a good place to order it online (Amazon doesn't have it:( )?
Is it better to remove the front screen or the back cover to do this on the F59 series? Are there instructions for doing this on here somewhere? How about the directions for lens hoods on the 51F59 and 57F59 (I'll probably be doing this to two 57F59s and one 51F59 as well as a 61SDX01B). How much Duvetyne will I need to do all 4 TVs?

I realize that many of these questions have probably been answered before, but I've tried searching and can't find them. If someone could post a link or let me know the post number I would really appreciate it. I might even try to put some kind of a manual together with pictures when I get around to doing this and post it here.


see post 286
from Paul

That would be here:
Post 286 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9894638#post9894638)

To link to a post, just find the post first, then you'll see a LINK item next to the post number. Right click and Copy the shortcut. Then, in your post, when you enter the HTML link, just paste it in, and hit enter. Right after you paste, you should notice that it looks like the URL is inserted twice, but the second set is highlighted. Just start typing in the Title to your link here, unless you want to list the entire URL.

STATG02 is at 02 on mine. And it's perfect

Yeah. O is brightest and 3 is dimmest. And 2 probably is the "best" setting. I notice the face on 3 on my tv isn't quite as bright as on my monitor. So while 2 is most faithful, I like that 3 dials it down a tad more. He still has a ton of bloom/HDR lighting on it. Completely a personal preference.

Ok guys I think I'm finally going to get the courage up to open my TVs and line the inside with Duvetyne. Should I just do the bottom, or should I do everything except the mirror and screen? What is the best way to attach the Duvetyne, spray adhesive, 2 sided tape, etc? Where is a good place to order it online (Amazon doesn't have it:( )?
Is it better to remove the front screen or the back cover to do this on the F59 series? Are there instructions for doing this on here somewhere? How about the directions for lens hoods on the 51F59 and 57F59 (I'll probably be doing this to two 57F59s and one 51F59 as well as a 61SDX01B). How much Duvetyne will I need to do all 4 TVs?

I realize that many of these questions have probably been answered before, but I've tried searching and can't find them. If someone could post a link or let me know the post number I would really appreciate it. I might even try to put some kind of a manual together with pictures when I get around to doing this and post it here.

I did it from the back. I actually opened up my back so many times in the beginning, I've only got 2 or 3 screws holding the panel on. So it just seemed like the natural way to do it.

I just took off my screen for the first time ever the other day. I'd say they both have advantages. If you did it from the front, you'd have lots of room to work with. But the thing is, if you go from the back, you can really make sure the cloth is resting properly beneath the screen and everything is properly covered. You also have a bird's eye view of the lens side of the lens hood so you're able to make sure nothing is being obstructed (which you would see projecting on the hood if it was too high or angled too severely.) I'm sure you could crane your head in there from the front, though.

Really, either way will work. And neither is too difficult. If you're scared of removing the screen, however, you can definitely go from the back (You might wanna place your arm along the side of the set to make sure it's gonna be long enough to reach everything. I've got long arms.)

I don't remember how much duventyne I ordered. It wasn't much. But I took dimensions from the rear (inside) and calculated that way. Considering shipping is half your cost, I wouldn't wanna guess and be short with it.

As for the lens hood, I would start with the 51 incher. The dimensions in the flick photos are exactly what you want. Perfectly spaced notches and the height is as high as you can go without obstructing the path from the mirror to the screen.

The cardboard really is using the mechanical parts to rest securely and in perfect position to block reflection, but not obstruct things. At this height there's no projection from the mirror being obstructed. And only slight leakage from the lenses to the mirror is hitting the board (but this appears to be stray ancillary light that's not effecting anything. My DVE settings were exactly the same pre and post lens hood. And color is as uniform and true as before.)

Quoting myself. I'm not sure if that makes any sense. But if you build it, it'll probably make more sense. You see if you raise it, things will start being projected on it (bad). Conversely, if it's angled too sharply (might wanna use a little spacer), too much light will be reflecting off it. It's all pretty simple once it's in there. It becomes very obvious where it should be sitting (especially when viewing from the rear.)

I'm not sure if the 51 and 57 inch sets have identical parts in them. It may or may not need modifications. Once you know what you're doing, though, it should be pretty obvious what adjustments you'd wanna make (Slightly higher, lower, or slightly different spaced notches.)

EDIT: You don't really need anything to hold the duventyne down. You might wanna tape a cranny if it's giving you trouble, but taping should be at a bare minimum.

http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch

I'm 99 percent certain this is the store I ordered from. It was the cheapest when I factored price + shipping. But that was a while ago, and it may not being the cheapest anymore.

And when taking measurements, don't worry about cutting. You can cut your cloth up into scraps and lay them on top of each other (don't waste any if you can help it.) You don't need 1 long, elegant strip.

Great guys, thanks a lot. I've got about three half circles of lighter color at the top of my screen when I watch movies with 2.35:1 ARs. I'm thinking it is most likely light reflecting off of something inside the TV, so I'm hoping that doing this will solve the problem. Most people don't notice it, but it bugs me.

Paul, the link to the yahoo store isn't going anywhere for me. Maybe you can post the name of the place and I can search for it myself. Thanks again.

What kind of places might have Duvetyne locally? I've called a couple fabric shops but not too many, camera shops maybe?

OK..have my consult today and afterward I'm doing the lens hood. To easy not too. Iv'e read Paul33993 post on it. Can anyone confirm bebefits of this or downside?

I've watched a couple movies since I redid everything and I've even been watching the credits. I'm not getting any lens flare when the credits roll. I attribute this to my duventyne/lens hood and finally tweaking the sub-brightness and sub-contrast settings.

My sub-brightness default was considerably lower than everyone else and this is the reason I had to have brightness at 61 to avoid shadow detail loss. I raised it significantly. Likewise, I lowered my sub-contrast from 12 to 10 and my whites are just white now. A blank webpage is a perfect white. No glow at all. Looks like the white webpage on my CRT. Of course, I had to redo my greyscale and color decoder settings again, but boy was it worth it.

Last time I say it: I'm so glad I checked back into this thread:)

Great guys, thanks a lot. I've got about three half circles of lighter color at the top of my screen when I watch movies with 2.35:1 ARs. I'm thinking it is most likely light reflecting off of something inside the TV, so I'm hoping that doing this will solve the problem. Most people don't notice it, but it bugs me.

Paul, the link to the yahoo store isn't going anywhere for me. Maybe you can post the name of the place and I can search for it myself. Thanks again.

What kind of places might have Duvetyne locally? I've called a couple fabric shops but not too many, camera shops maybe?

http://www.filmtools.com/

I'm not sure what happened with that link. I checked it when I posted, but because I linked the store search (so it would display both 54 and 60 inch sizes), maybe it timed out.

What kind of places might have Duvetyne locally? I've called a couple fabric shops but not too many, camera shops maybe?

I gave up, locally. Also wasn't thrilled about the +shipping, so used flat black paint instead. Better? Worse? Who knows!
Good luck.

I'll reset them and see. My Med seems to have no effect. Did you have any info on the color cbcr in the decoder?

Your Med will have an effect when the temperature setting in the user menu is, well, medium.
Whether you need to adjust the CBCR or the PBPR registers depends on resolution of the source; one affects 1080i and the other affects upscaling 480i. I never remember which is which, so I just change one dramatically and, if it doesn't change anything, go to the other.
Primitive, perhaps, but it works.

Your Med will have an effect when the temperature setting in the user menu is, well, medium.
Whether you need to adjust the CBCR or the PBPR registers depends on resolution of the source; one affects 1080i and the other affects upscaling 480i. I never remember which is which, so I just change one dramatically and, if it doesn't change anything, go to the other.
Primitive, perhaps, but it works.

cbcr is 1080i/ learned from trial and error yesterday. I spent my wisest money in a while today. I had a consult with Mr. Bob over the phone. I now have my grayscale right on or very close. Regardless I know how to do it right from here on out, though I need a few more tips that I will get with him on.

Since I dedicated the day to getting the consult done I decided to open her up again and do the lens hood. Very easy and quick. When I did that I remembered I had not cleaned my mirror 2 months ago when I had the screen off. Oh man was that a job. It kept fogging up and I had to wipe it down 5-6 times. Then the top lenses were dirty again. Not as bad as before but a little dust on them. Cleaned them too.

Then I put the hood in. Went with Paul33993 post. Worked like a charm. I did find that the 7 3/4 height was not perfect for mine. A little tall for my 51 inch. I thought that was what he had done it on as well in that post. anyway I cut that by 3/4 of an inch by making the notches on the end deeper. If you look at his post you will see two little notches. That is to clear the molding near the lenses. I had to shave that significantly more than the pic showed to get it to seat deep enough. Still my hood is higher than his but does not obstruct at all. I used the black cardboard board I bought from Wal-Mart.

Lord of the Rings has been on TNT the last 2 nights. I watched pre this mod and cleaning. I watched it again after. Man what a difference. the balcks are deeper with more detail and the colors rock. I will attribute a lot to the screen cleaning but the grayscale/hood changes definetly added.

Long post for me but I hope someone can use it.

P.S. every set definetly has different grayscale settings. DO NOT SET YOURS TO SOMEONE ELSES. Believe me I learned the hard way. That was for us less wise videophiles. Some of you guys figured that out a long time ago.

I created a lens hood a while back and found that it didn't affect my blacks like I hoped it would, I still had a nice amount of lens flare, my arch nemesis. I will try again and see.

I have to convey an experience. I went to my mother's house last night and she asked me to adjust the picture on her set. She has a 32 inch Polaroid LCD. First of all, she was of course watching it on it's vivid setting. Horrible! So I adjusted it on the user settings to the best of my abilities to the best I could get it in teh short amount of time I had before I had to go. Huge improvement, but there was nothing saving that tv. Banding city! Noise for days, colors were horrible, just a horrible all around little set. God I'm glad I went with CRT.

i had something similar happen except noone asked me to adjust the tv and it was driving me nuts. i went to a friends house to watch a few dvds and she was running what i believe was an upconverting dvd player/hommetheater receiver to what had to be a 60" or 65" Mit rpcrt and the convergence was sooooooo bad. we watched sweeny todd and i was literally going batty, but i didnt want to say anything for fear of sounding like an elitist or something similar. but on another note polaroid is about on the same level as sylvania, read: terrible.

Then I put the hood in. Went with Paul33993 post. Worked like a charm. I did find that the 7 3/4 height was not perfect for mine. A little tall for my 51 inch. I thought that was what he had done it on as well in that post. anyway I cut that by 3/4 of an inch by making the notches on the end deeper. If you look at his post you will see two little notches. That is to clear the molding near the lenses. I had to shave that significantly more than the pic showed to get it to seat deep enough. Still my hood is higher than his but does not obstruct at all. I used the black cardboard board I bought from Wal-Mart.

That's from the first lens hood I made and those end two notches were from the box I tore apart. When I remade it with the foamboard, I'm pretty sure I used the same dimensions (Though I'm sure I posted the exact dimensions in a thread somewhere.) Did it slide all the way to the bottom (so that those 3 middle notches weren't propping it up?) It really should pop right in (and my middle notches are just messy figures since it's only important that it's cut enough to get you to the bottom.)

EDIT: I've searched my posts and made no mention of the foamboard dimensions. That's because although I was originally gonna make tweaks to it (1/8 higher) I had to scrap it (too high) and ended up making a foamboard with identical dimensions as posted.

But those posted dimensions are at the absolute limit. And with my foamboard I drew straight lines and scored with a razor. I'm kind of puzzled that you had to cut that much off.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403902/

If you zoom in to that photo, you can see the sides don't have notches and are clearing the ground no problem there. I guess I'm gonna have to add that to the list of things to check next time I go in. Make sure my dimensions listed are correct.

P.S. The photo with the listed dimensions is an optical illusion. Those "box" notches really aren't necessary for that foam to fit underneath. Although it sure looks like they were planned.

i had something similar happen except noone asked me to adjust the tv and it was driving me nuts. i went to a friends house to watch a few dvds and she was running what i believe was an upconverting dvd player/hommetheater receiver to what had to be a 60" or 65" Mit rpcrt and the convergence was sooooooo bad. we watched sweeny todd and i was literally going batty, but i didnt want to say anything for fear of sounding like an elitist or something similar. but on another note polaroid is about on the same level as sylvania, read: terrible.

All my friends know I'm a nerd so they would know I would have to do something, especially if the convergence is off. They would probably thank you for the convergence fix. Of course most people still prefer to watch their sets on vivid even after I adjust their user menu settings. People believe that's how the tv should look of course, since they never change their settings once they buy the thing. And yeah, that Polaroid is a piece of sh!t if ever there was one.

That's from the first lens hood I made and those end two notches were from the box I tore apart. When I remade it with the foamboard, I'm pretty sure I used the same dimensions (Though I'm sure I posted the exact dimensions in a thread somewhere.) Did it slide all the way to the bottom (so that those 3 middle notches weren't propping it up?) It really should pop right in (and my middle notches are just messy figures since it's only important that it's cut enough to get you to the bottom.)

EDIT: I've searched my posts and made no mention of the foamboard dimensions. That's because although I was originally gonna make tweaks to it (1/8 higher) I had to scrap it (too high) and ended up making a foamboard with identical dimensions as posted.

But those posted dimensions are at the absolute limit. And with my foamboard I drew straight lines and scored with a razor. I'm kind of puzzled that you had to cut that much off.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86289222@N00/2399403902/

If you zoom in to that photo, you can see the sides don't have notches and are clearing the ground no problem there. I guess I'm gonna have to add that to the list of things to check next time I go in. Make sure my dimensions listed are correct.

P.S. The photo with the listed dimensions is an optical illusion. Those "box" notches really aren't necessary for that foam to fit underneath. Although it sure looks like they were planned.

I am not complaining. Without your dimensions posted I would have had to figure it out. And they were very close. I cut it just as the post said. Put it in place. It fit in but it stuck up so high I could see that it was going to clip the projector light path. (I rested it up against the hardware inside just as you said) I then saw that those end pieces was not letting the center cut outs go all the way down.

I then notched them more (half and inch or more) and it sat down and cleared the light path. It sits about 3-4 inches above the center lense assembly but still misses the light path.

The problem may be that I went with the full recommended length, which is pretty long and runs from one side to the next. I may have been more conservative on the hood and allowed more room for the light path.Its close though when you look at it. The lense edge probably only has 3/4 of an inch room to clear the foamboard when you look directly down into the lenses.

The pics you have may not show the true depth. To me they looked to sit 2 inches at best above the lenses. Mine site considerably higher than that.

No cut off seen in the pic from the hood obstructing it. Just incredible blacks. I also cant see that rainbow effect anymore from the lenses, if you look directly down into the screen from above as its on.

Thanks for that post. Made life soooooo much easier. Again my Mr. Bob consult was very helpful and has put me straight on grayscale.

I created a lens hood a while back and found that it didn't affect my blacks like I hoped it would, I still had a nice amount of lens flare, my arch nemesis. I will try again and see.

What did your lense flare look like? I cant detect much if at all anymore.

im tweaking my decoder right now with my xbox 360 via component, does grayscale need to be tset for each color temperature or is it independent of color temperature?

im tweaking my decoder right now with my xbox 360 via component, does grayscale need to be tset for each color temperature or is it independent of color temperature?

Videophiles only need ONE color temp: D6500K! High/cool is inconsequential to us. But their manual says to get 10500K right if you want everything else to be right.

Sorry, not that trusting, esp. of a manufacturer who never even MENTIONS industry standard D6500K.

Make STD come in at D6500K and let it go at that. You won't need anything else -


Mr Bob

im tweaking my decoder right now with my xbox 360 via component, does grayscale need to be tset for each color temperature or is it independent of color temperature?

Consensus seems to be that "high" is set at the factory and should probably be left alone by us amateur tweakers (note: not set to the defaults in the sm, but at the original OOB settings, which I'm SURE you have recorded somewhere, yes?). Medium and standard seem to be independent of each other.
If you have two devices that share a resolution (i.e., you find that the CBCR or PBPR registers affect both devices), you can use standard temp for one and medium temp for the other.
BTW, the decoder is setting your colors. Grayscale is set via white balance registers and is a totally different process.

Consensus seems to be that "high" is set at the factory and should probably be left alone by us amateur tweakers (note: not set to the defaults in the sm, but at the original OOB settings, which I'm SURE you have recorded somewhere, yes?). Medium and standard seem to be independent of each other.
If you have two devices that share a resolution (i.e., you find that the CBCR or PBPR registers affect both devices), you can use standard temp for one and medium temp for the other.
BTW, the decoder is setting your colors. Grayscale is set via white balance registers and is a totally different process.


yeah i have everything written down. i used the decoder protocol you listed a few pages back. i have the standard temp for ps3 via hdmi and medium/high for component sources(xbox 360, directv hd dvr). the thing is my reds and blues still are a little neon-ish, they pop too much i think. im thinking of messing with dcam while the opportunity is ripe, my parents are gone and i can tweak away.

the greyscale for both medium and high looks rather nice. what should i use as reference material for adjusting white balance? would a white webpage work?

oh, while im at it what does changing sub bright and sub cont affect? turns out the isf mode menu is accessible by pressing the right arrow key but i was a little scared to mess with anything in there as noone here has ever mentioned anyhting about it.

the greyscale for both medium and high looks rather nice. what should i use as reference material for adjusting white balance? would a white webpage work?

oh, while im at it what does changing sub bright and sub cont affect? turns out the isf mode menu is accessible by pressing the right arrow key but i was a little scared to mess with anything in there as noone here has ever mentioned anyhting about it.

My understanding (how's that for a disclaimer :)) is that DRV is set at 100IRE and CUT is set at 20IRE. Avia and DVE both have appropriate test patterns. However, without either a source of light at D6500K to match or a device for measuring the light temperature of the screen, you're basically guessing. I'm sure the pros have some tips, which I'm sure they'll be happy to share (for a price:)).

Sub bright and Sub cont set the midpoints for the user menu settings brightness and contrast.

What did your lense flare look like? I cant detect much if at all anymore.

Basically if there's a dark area on the screen and a very light area right next to it, you see a semi-circle of light in te Crow, in the behe dark area. If you have The Crow, there's a scene in the begining where the camera is moving down the screen from the top of a steeple down. There is a huge amount of lens flare there. It's really easy to see in a predominantly dark movie.

the thing is my reds and blues still are a little neon-ish, they pop too much i think.

How about reducing COLOR in the user menu from 50 to 40?
The whole idea is to get it the way you like it. Funny, but tomorrow night I'm going back to a friend's to give their set MORE "pop." Guess I'll try changing their COLOR from 50 to 60.
To each his own.

My understanding (how's that for a disclaimer :)) is that DRV is set at 100IRE and CUT is set at 20IRE. Avia and DVE both have appropriate test patterns.


Actually 100IRE is too much light to use in grayscale, when it comes to the testing of where you're at with whatever settings you're using in sm. It's usually done at 80IRE and the 100IRE disregarded.

So your statement is technically correct - the DRV is what is used for 100IRE and down to half, the cutoffs used for black and up to half - but for alignment, saying it the way you did above misses the mark just a hair -


AVIA's grayscale patterns are not correct. Something was lost in the production process. The original templates are correct, but they came out wrong on the disc, slightly reddish. Guy Kuo, the amazing creator of AVIA, has apologized for this on numerous occasions.

They can only be trusted in component with just Y conn'd, for empirical b/w, Pb and Pr disco'd. Or in SD, with an S video cord with the chrominance lead broken off.


Mr Bob

Basically if there's a dark area on the screen and a very light area right next to it, you see a semi-circle of light in te Crow, in the behe dark area. If you have The Crow, there's a scene in the begining where the camera is moving down the screen from the top of a steeple down. There is a huge amount of lens flare there. It's really easy to see in a predominantly dark movie.

Is this the same crescent that is seen katty-corner to the whitest box, in the VE pluge pattern?

This is internal reflections, and can be caused by any form of them. The hood is the nth degree of nailing that error down and dealing with it after the duvetyne op, but this flare you speak of is also caused by exposed metal in there, like in Hits and Pios. Or shiny metal circuit bd covers and shiny screwheads - or tails - in Mits's. Which are remedied via either duvetyne or flat black paint or big and small black Sharpie marking pens. With Duvetyne prolly being the best, flat black paint being next best, and Sharpie being effective but not quite as much as the other 2. Have not done extensive testing, could be backwards there...

I don't think you can pin down that flare as what the hood itself is remedying, all by itself -


Mr Bob

How about reducing COLOR in the user menu from 50 to 40?
The whole idea is to get it the way you like it. Funny, but tomorrow night I'm going back to a friend's to give their set MORE "pop." Guess I'll try changing their COLOR from 50 to 60.
To each his own.


Agreed.

Actually Michael, I thought your pic of Kit was a little UNderdone. His fleshtones look a little bleak, to me, even tho the blues are OK. I would pop his color sat up a few notches, to give his face a little more color. And to make the blues a little more vivid.


Mr Bob

I checked and I dont have much flare in there. When I sharpied the inside I went crazy and went thru more than one marker. I hit every screw ect...

JUst curious if anyone else had slightly different dimensions in the lens hood.

I'll be checking the merits of lens stripping next.

Actually Michael, I thought your pic of Kit was a little UNderdone. His fleshtones look a little bleak, to me, even tho the blues are OK. I would pop his color sat up a few notches, to give his face a little more color. And to make the blues a little more vivid.


Mr Bob

Again, blame the photographer, not the photograph. The screen image is better (though still SD). Did you see the kitties?

I'll be checking the merits of lens stripping next.

Don't strip them, stripe them.:)
If you put up a white/gray screen (and we all have a bunch of them lying around by now, don't we?), if you notice that it's a little red on one side and a little blue on the other, lens striping will help. If the color is even across the screen, consider yourself very lucky and leave it alone.
BTW, I used flat black electrical tape.

Don't strip them, stripe them.:)
If you put up a white/gray screen (and we all have a bunch of them lying around by now, don't we?), if you notice that it's a little red on one side and a little blue on the other, lens striping will help. If the color is even across the screen, consider yourself very lucky and leave it alone.
BTW, I used flat black electrical tape.

I will check that. I also spent a lot of time yesterday on my 117 convergence. IS there a considerable difference using the dots instead of the lines? I am really afraid of DCAM but figure I can try it if the dot pattern makes that much more difference.

Man King Kong on TBS rocked the other night. I'm watching Pans Labyringth this week (in segments) and the PQ is amazing. What really scares me is I know I still dont have it up to some of you guys PQ level. :(

CRT technolgy must come back!!!:mad:

I will check that. I also spent a lot of time yesterday on my 117 convergence. IS there a considerable difference using the dots instead of the lines? I am really afraid of DCAM but figure I can try it if the dot pattern makes that much more difference.

Man King Kong on TBS rocked the other night. I'm watching Pans Labyringth this week (in segments) and the PQ is amazing. What really scares me is I know I still dont have it up to some of you guys PQ level. :(

CRT technolgy must come back!!!:mad:

Don't be afraid of DCAM at all, it's not too dissimilar from the user convergence. In my opinion, dots are the way to go for convergence. I used lines and got very good results, but when I used dots, I got a noticably sharper picture. And the dots seemed to allow me to get convergence in the corners and sides down better than lines could. I'm sure it's a matter of tast, but for me dots are far better as I got more flexibilty and better results.

Again, blame the photographer, not the photograph. The screen image is better (though still SD). Did you see the kitties?

Yes, great crispness, but I have no reference for their flesh tones...

:D

;)

Mr Bob

DOn;t be afraid of DCAM at all, it's not too dissimilar from the user convergence. In my opinion, dots are the way to go for convergence. I used lines and got very good results, but when I used dots, I got a noticably sharper picture. And the dots seemed to allow me to get convergence in the corners and sides down better than lines could. I'm sure it's a matter of tast, but for me lines are far better as I got more flexibilty and better results.

"...lines are far better"???

I read it twice. Methinks you have a bit of a contradiction going on there...

;)


Mr Bob

Don't strip them, stripe them.:)
If you put up a white/gray screen (and we all have a bunch of them lying around by now, don't we?), if you notice that it's a little red on one side and a little blue on the other, lens striping will help. If the color is even across the screen, consider yourself very lucky and leave it alone.
BTW, I used flat black electrical tape.


can you guys take pictures of the lens striping process? when i was messing with the decoder this weekend i noticed that the right side of the screen has a blue cast and as opposed to a red cast on the left it is more of a yellow cast. ive been trying to get a hit. rep out but neither of our schedules are aligning as of late.

How about reducing COLOR in the user menu from 50 to 40?
The whole idea is to get it the way you like it. Funny, but tomorrow night I'm going back to a friend's to give their set MORE "pop." Guess I'll try changing their COLOR from 50 to 60.
To each his own.

for some reason it was at 66. bumped it down to 40. the blues still have a bit of pop to them. when i was messing with the decoder the red and the blue were the hardest to get close to matching, the center looked good but my lens striping affected the left and right sides. i got my green nigh perfect though:D

im using this (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/colorbars720pcolorbars720p.jpg)as my colorbar image until i can order the dve blu-ray.

"...lines are far better"???

I read it twice. Methinks you have a bit of a contradiction going on there...

;)


Mr Bob

HA HA HA, yeah I changed it. I meant DOTS.

hey does anyone know if they have came out with a new firmware or something.

so do the ISF mode tweaks in the service menu listed on post number 5 here (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2368666&&#post2368666) apply to the f59's as well?

this opens up an entirely new can of worms :)

for some reason it was at 66. bumped it down to 40. the blues still have a bit of pop to them. when i was messing with the decoder the red and the blue were the hardest to get close to matching, the center looked good but my lens striping affected the left and right sides. i got my green nigh perfect though:D

im using this (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/br1ghtdarkness/colorbars720pcolorbars720p.jpg)as my colorbar image until i can order the dve blu-ray.

When you do your color alignment - not your grayscale alignment, 2 different things - you have to have your user color and tint midpointed BEFORE you go into sm. It's that way on many brands, Hit might be the exception, can't check that out right now, but better safe than sorry -

If you don't, then your color will always look best when your user settings were as you had them when you did the color alignment. But set them at midpoint after that if they weren't midpointed at the time, and everything will be wrong.

So set them at midpoint BEFORE going into sm, and it will look just right whenever they are midpointed again, later.


Mr Bob

hey does anyone know if they have came out with a new firmware or something.

Go here:HDMI FIX POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9668868#post9668868)

This is the last/only firmware fix we've seen.

so do the ISF mode tweaks in the service menu listed on post number 5 here (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2368666&&#post2368666) apply to the f59's as well?

this opens up an entirely new can of worms :)

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. I want to know what stuff in there does!

When you do your color alignment - not your grayscale alignment, 2 different things - you have to have your user color and tint midpointed BEFORE you go into sm. It's that way on many brands, Hit might be the exception, can't check that out right now, but better safe than sorry -

If you don't, then your color will always look best when your user settings were as you had them when you did the color alignment. But set them at midpoint after that if they weren't midpointed at the time, and everything will be wrong.

So set them at midpoint BEFORE going into sm, and it will look just right whenever they are midpointed again, later.


Mr Bob

im almost positive that i had all the settings set at 50% before i started messing with the decoder. i wont really be able to check until this weekend though.

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. I want to know what stuff in there does!


Some of them do, though the ISF MODE on the F59s is not accessible.
Use the TA1360 menu. You will find that all the names are not the same either.

You can also go to this post: Download F59 Manual (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13596334#post13596334), and look in the manual yourself.

Some of them do, though the ISF MODE on the F59s is not accessible.
Use the TA1360 menu. You will find that all the names are not the same either.

You can also go to this post: Download F59 Manual (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13596334#post13596334), and look in the manual yourself.

believe it or not on my dad's 51f59 i was able to get into it by pressing the right arrow when on the ISF MODE menu

believe it or not on my dad's 51f59 i was able to get into it by pressing the right arrow when on the ISF MODE menu

So was I

Well, try to do something in that menu you see.

Well, try to do something in that menu you see.

not on the 57s

Yeah, I believe you can open the ISF SM section, but you can't actually do anyting in it.

But I could be wrong.

I know this is a Hit thread, but various people here have inquired about getting one of the last CRT RPTVs ever to be available, if possible. As such, I am going to gamble that this post will be well received, even tho it's about a Mit.

A Mit is being retired by an owner in San Jose who is buying a new DLP. This Mit is a 65" HDready, a classic if there ever was one, and has been calibrated twice by me already, over the years. It now has the convergence intermittency that is very common to them, like a thermostat wearing out on a car. The repair will be very straightforward, and will be done soon, before it is placed with its new owner. Or after, if the new owner wants to do it himself and save some money.

This unit is being kept by its owner till I can find it a new owner.

Who would like to be the owner of a mint condition Mit 65" HDready, calibrated for the second time within the last 2 years, and owned by someone who really knows how to take care of his toys?

Please contact me immediately. It will be very well priced, either way. Even better priced if the new owner comes and takes it away himself. It is currently in San Jose.


Mr Bob

I touched my convergence up tonight since I moved the set to plug my 360 back in. WHile I was doing it I took a gander at the sharpness pattern on AVIA just to be looking. While in there, I re did my sharpness and still found I can't decide whether 46 or 48 is best. But I decided to go in the sm and take a look at the aperture settings since the instructions mentioned line doublers and vertical aperture settings. So with the pattern up, I looked and saw my APRTR for HD was at 01. Changed it to 00 and there was a NICE AMOUNT of distortion in the pattern that went away. Turned on TFE on Blu Ray to test. The pic looked cleaner and more dimensional. Maybe it's because it's 12 am, or maybe I'm all about the less crap in the picture the better. I think this goes back to an ealier post by myslef about the difference between our RP sets and nice FP CRT machines.

And if you haven't picked up TFE on Blu Ray or at the very least, a Superbit DVD, you need to smack yourself. It is an absolutely drop dead gorgeous transfer, especially on Blu Ray. IMHO, perfection in just about every way. Even if you don't like the movie, it is perfect demo material and an all around fun movie, and it is 3D basically all the way through. If your set doesn't look deep, dimensional, and nothing between you and the movie clear, then you have some adjusting to do.

Tfe ??

Tfe ??

It took me some time too ... so don't feel bad

THE FIFTH ELEMENT:o

Tfe ??

Sorry, yeah The Fifth Element. It was late and I was lazy. :):D

I touched my convergence up tonight since I moved the set to plug my 360 back in. WHile I was doing it I took a gandr at the sharpness pattern on AVIA just to be looking. While in there, I re did my sharpness and still found I can't decide whether 46 or 48 is best. But I decided to go in the sm and take a gander atr the aperture settings since the instructions mentioned line doublers and vertical aperture settings. So with the pattern up, I looked and saw my APRTR for HD was at 01. Changed it to 00 and there was a NICE AMOUNT of distortion in the pattern that went away. Turned on TFE on Blu Ray to test. THe pic looked cleaner and more dimensional. Maybe it's because it's 12 am, or maybe I'm all about the less crap in the picture the better. I think this goes back to an ealier post by myslef about the difference between our RP sets and nice FP CRT machines.

I will check that setting because I know I have moved it before. Dont remember what I have it on.

I touched my convergence up tonight since I moved the set to plug my 360 back in. WHile I was doing it I took a gandr at the sharpness pattern on AVIA just to be looking. While in there, I re did my sharpness and still found I can't decide whether 46 or 48 is best. But I decided to go in the sm and take a gander atr the aperture settings since the instructions mentioned line doublers and vertical aperture settings. So with the pattern up, I looked and saw my APRTR for HD was at 01. Changed it to 00 and there was a NICE AMOUNT of distortion in the pattern that went away. Turned on TFE on Blu Ray to test. THe pic looked cleaner and more dimensional. Maybe it's because it's 12 am, or maybe I'm all about the less crap in the picture the better. I think this goes back to an ealier post by myslef about the difference between our RP sets and nice FP CRT machines.

I'm going to try that setting on mine too. So you keep your sharpness at 46 or 48? I think I need to tweak my sharpness all around then, mine's down around 25 right now.

Also, I know this has been covered a thousand times, but what is the best way of dealing with geometry issues? I need to re-do my convergence as I've noticed it's off when watching 2.35:1 aspect ratio media lately, and the black bars aren't perfectly straight. I take it an external source like Avia won't help me here...is printing out something to put over the screen the best way?

I'm going to try that setting on mine too. So you keep your sharpness at 46 or 48? I think I need to tweak my sharpness all around then, mine's down around 25 right now.

Looking at the sharpness pattern on AVIA, if I go below 46, distortion starts to creep up to the left of the lines in the middle, if I go past 50, the distortion swings to the right. My SRTGA is also at 00.

I'm telling you guys, the main difference between what we see at home and what a good FP set up can produce is in my opinion; distortion and noise. Take away as much as possible and you're looking at a much cleaner picture with MUCH more defined dimensionality. Now we can't mod the things like Mike Parker and others do, but we can still get as close to the source as possible given what we got. And I believe that by looking at the best, cleanest source possible, and making your picture quality assesments using that, that's how you do it. I don't really care about making the lowest quality signal look as good as possible, that way you'll never know what the best signal is capable of. What I saw last night made me very happy. I want as little in the way of the signal and my eyes as possible, and I'm telling you fellas, The Fifth Element on Blu Ray continues to impress with each viewing more than almost any other movie. Partly becasue I'm intimately familiar with it, and as my set has evolved so has how good TFE looks.

This in my opinion, is an EXTREMELY clean screnshot. This is Gary Murell's set up, a NEC front projector. This pic was stolen from the Screenshot War thread in the CRT section.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/screenshot80.jpg

I'm also better able to tell the difference between HD and SD, but in a way that sounds contradictory at first. Before I re did my color decoding and some other things recently, HD looked a lot better than SD, no question. No matter what I put on, HD always looked leaps and bounds better. But now, HD no longer stomps all over SD in every case. Only the good HD transfers are heads and shoulders above SD. My SD performance has taken a huge leap forward recently. And that brings me to another quick point, you can find some absolutely stunning SD transfers if your set is looking it's best or close to it. If you have Once Upon a Time In Mexico, pop it in and prepare to be blown away. But back to my original point; the differnce between HD and SD is more pronounced on better HD transfers, and those that aren't so great, it's not as noticable.

I'm also better able to tell the difference between HD and SD, but in a way that sounds contradictory at first. Before I re did my color decoding and some other things recently, HD looked a lot better than SD, no question. No matter what I put on, HD always looked leaps and bounds better. But now, HD no longer stomps all over SD in every case. Only the good HD transfers are heads and shoulders above SD. My SD performance has taken a huge leap forward recently. And that brings me to another quick point, you can find some absolutely stunning SD transfers if your set is looking it's best or close to it. If you have Once Upon a Time In Mexico, pop it in and prepare to be blown away. But back to my original point; the differnce between HD and SD is more pronounced on better HD transfers, and those that aren't so great, it's not as noticable.

And if you guys want to see what lordcloud is REALLY capable of, check out screenshots from his FP in the Screenshot War!!!!!!!! thread!

Absolutely delectable. This man knows his stuff -


Mr Bob

Got a PS3 a couple of weeks ago for BR. Here's a screen of the theme I'm using

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/bigfnjoe96/IMG_4378.jpg

hey can you send me that background image so i can check my settings against yours? ill pm you my psn id.

I will check that. I also spent a lot of time yesterday on my 117 convergence. IS there a considerable difference using the dots instead of the lines? I am really afraid of DCAM but figure I can try it if the dot pattern makes that much more difference.

Man King Kong on TBS rocked the other night. I'm watching Pans Labyringth this week (in segments) and the PQ is amazing. What really scares me is I know I still dont have it up to some of you guys PQ level. :(

CRT technolgy must come back!!!:mad:

did you take any pictures while striping your lenses?

did you take any pictures while striping your lenses?

Haven't done it yet. May not need to. I dont see a big need on my set.

I'm also better able to tell the difference between HD and SD, but in a way that sounds contradictory at first. Before I re did my color decoding and some other things recently, HD looked a lot better than SD, no question. No matter what I put on, HD always looked leaps and bounds better. But now, HD no longer stomps all over SD in every case. Only the good HD transfers are heads and shoulders above SD. My SD performance has taken a huge leap forward recently. And that brings me to another quick point, you can find some absolutely stunning SD transfers if your set is looking it's best or close to it. If you have Once Upon a Time In Mexico, pop it in and prepare to be blown away. But back to my original point; the differnce between HD and SD is more pronounced on better HD transfers, and those that aren't so great, it's not as noticable.

My SD has improved drastically as well. Doesnt sound as good as the results Lordcloud has but it is significant.

I do notice that I have a really hard time seeing distortion (ringing to be exact) in the sharpness pattern on DVE. I sit there and adjust both ways and I dont see a big change in the pattern on my set. Makes me wonder if sharpness isn't a little off on my set. Surely the lines will get super soft on the low end and ringing off the charts on the high end.:confused::confused:

My SD has improved drastically as well. Doesnt sound as good as the results Lordcloud has but it is significant.

I do notice that I have a really hard time seeing distortion (ringing to be exact) in the sharpness pattern on DVE. I sit there and adjust both ways and I dont see a big change in the pattern on my set. Makes me wonder if sharpness isn't a little off on my set. Surely the lines will get super soft on the low end and ringing off the charts on the high end.:confused::confused:

My thoughts are similar to yours when I run pattern to fine tune, however my conclusion is that my eyes are the problem. I ask my kids, or wife for reafirmation but they last no more than 30 secs and they say " It look good to me".

I have my sharpness at 25.

My thoughts are similar to yours when I run pattern to fine tune, however my conclusion is that my eyes are the problem. I ask my kids, or wife for reafirmation but they last no more than 30 secs and they say " It look good to me".

I have my sharpness at 25.

i have had it as high as 40 and as low as 20. 35 right now.

My noise has gone down a lot though. IMHO I think that as you tweak and Mod the set closer to the plus side (that area where Mr. Bob lives) enhancements such as sharpness or Edge ect... have less effect. Your set is already there on its own. May just be my perception though.

hey can you send me that background image so i can check my settings against yours? ill pm you my psn id.

Check your PM Box...

i have had it as high as 40 and as low as 20. 35 right now.

My noise has gone down a lot though. IMHO I think that as you tweak and Mod the set closer to the plus side (that area where Mr. Bob lives) enhancements such as sharpness or Edge ect... have less effect. Your set is already there on its own. May just be my perception though.

EE - edge enhancement - is for making vertical lines/curves/edges jump out at you more, for when you are far away from your set. It was created when we all sat relatively far away from our 19" TVs, by today's standards - like across the room. Images just looked too smooth without it, depth suffered.

When closer to your set - because it's bigger now and because you have it dialed in - that same ee decimates detail. Another form of it is known as SVM, or Scan Velocity Modulation.

There is much ee already incorporated in cable and satellite signals, where you really can't get rid of it. Some HD channels are worse than others. Leno - in the edges of his face - is particularly bad, compared to CSI, where it is much more minimal. OTA ABC and Fox have more than the other OTA channels, because of being 720p, to their 1080i.

It is much less overdone in HD discs, in both formats, where you get the least amount of invasive compression possible.

EE increases detail in static areas, but forms false edges at vertical lines. The correct setting is the happy medium between the 2.


Mr Bob

well bfj, looking at your screen it looks like you could use a little bit of lens striping too, have you done anything to fix it? yours looks a little better than my dad's set though.

well bfj, looking at your screen it looks like you could use a little bit of lens striping too, have you done anything to fix it? yours looks a little better than my dad's set though.

Lens Stripping & Cleaning has never been done to the set. Including adding a lens hood. The picture may not look that great because my camera is actually zooming-in on the image. I was about 6/7 feet away from the set when I took that screen shot.

I want to open-up my set, but truthfully am a little intimidated by the whole process & the wife fears I will damage the TV.

Lens Stripping & Cleaning has never been done to the set. Including adding a lens hood. The picture may not look that great because my camera is actually zooming-in on the image. I was about 6/7 feet away from the set when I took that screen shot.

I want to open-up my set, but truthfully am a little intimidated by the whole process & the wife fears I will damage the TV.

I felt the same way and it was completly unjustified. Taking the screen off is too easy. Once that is off everything else is even easier. You have no ide what just a little cleaning of the top lense can do for you. The sharpie and hood mods are your choice but why not.

Cleaning the mirror and dusting the screen are a must. The mirror is just like any other mirror, just go easy.

I felt the same way and it was completly unjustified. Taking the screen off is too easy. Once that is off everything else is even easier. You have no ide what just a little cleaning of the top lense can do for you. The sharpie and hood mods are your choice but why not.

Cleaning the mirror and dusting the screen are a must. The mirror is just like any other mirror, just go easy.

My only concern is my HITACHI isn't the f59 series it's the f510 series. Not sure if that even matters, but my paranoia says it does make a difference. Also when you open-up the TV I see it should be done through the back correct? I've wanted to do a lens & mirror cleaning for a while as my HIATCHI is almost 3 years old now

The mirror is just like any other mirror, just go easy.

The mirror is most likely a front surface/first surface mirror, and as such the aluminizing should not be exposed to ammonia. As such Windex with Ammonia D is OK for the lenses, but out for the mirror.

Unless this is one of the few Hits that use a glass mirror rather than the industry standard HDready front surface mirror.


Mr Bob

My only concern is my HITACHI isn't the f59 series it's the f510 series. Not sure if that even matters, but my paranoia says it does make a difference. Also when you open-up the TV I see it should be done through the back correct? I've wanted to do a lens & mirror cleaning for a while as my HIATCHI is almost 3 years old now

OOPS...yea I didn't even think about the ammonia caveat. I dont use anything with ammonia inside my T.V. but I guess I should have said that.

I thought I saw somewhere that the f510 was the same from the front.

The job is very easy from the front and everything is right there. I will look for the post and link them if someone else doesnt beat me to it. Man my lenses were covered in dust from 1 year. I just redid them after only 2 months and they had a light film on them again. You will be shocked by how your set will look.

My best advice is to do a phone consult with Mr. Bob and let him give you a play by play on getting a 3 year old set back to incredible. Very affordable as I have taken advantage of it for a grayscale problem. (sorry for plug...but its true). If that pic is any indication you have a great set waiting for some love.:)

P.S. I watched Pans Labyrinth in HD DVD the other day. Man was it awesome on my set. The colors and film like detail was great. Even my wife noticed.

And if you haven't picked up TFE on Blu Ray or at the very least, a Superbit DVD, you need to smack yourself. It is an absolutely drop dead gorgeous transfer, especially on Blu Ray. IMHO, perfection in just about every way. Even if you don't like the movie, it is perfect demo material and an all around fun movie, and it is 3D basically all the way through. If your set doesn't look deep, dimensional, and nothing between you and the movie clear, then you have some adjusting to do.

Okay, got it on Superbit. Ordered it used via Amazon. Didn't cost much more than renting the SD version would have, so what the heck. Thanks for the recommendation.
BTW, the APRTR suggestion was mine. Still works better for me, but I have to sit back about 9 feet. Would sit on the coffee table, instead, but it's glass.:)

My SD has improved drastically as well. Doesnt sound as good as the results Lordcloud has but it is significant.

I do notice that I have a really hard time seeing distortion (ringing to be exact) in the sharpness pattern on DVE. I sit there and adjust both ways and I dont see a big change in the pattern on my set. Makes me wonder if sharpness isn't a little off on my set. Surely the lines will get super soft on the low end and ringing off the charts on the high end.:confused::confused:

What I see on the sharpness pattern is basically a sort of ghost image that will start to show either on the right or left of the veirtical lines in the middle of the sharpness pattern. This is specifically where I look: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/avia.jpg On these lines, either there will be "ghost distortion" to the left or right of the lines depending on where sharpness is. Or none if sharpness is at the correct position.

Stole this pic off of a thread Gary Murell started about SDI vs HDMI. This is pretty much exactly what I see when I have my sharpness set incorrectly, there is a faint ghost like image to the right or left of the bar. I try and get that the hell outta there as much as possible when I'm doing sharpness related things as it can only add crap to the picture.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/lordcloud/970_12.jpg

You know what I would kill for about now? A damn low level gamma boost! Why is there no hdmi to hdmi gamma boosting products out there?

You know what I would kill for about now? A damn low level gamma boost! Why is there no hdmi to hdmi gamma boosting products out there?

There is. Both the Moome and the Box series, usable with the HDFury for transoding HDMI to component, for units with component only. Available at the Curt Palme site.

I just learned that I am mentioned there by James A, for whom I just did his Mit 55905 last week, around year 2000 HDready model. He swears by it, says his set now "outperforms some of the newest stuff out there"... Check the Curt Palme site -

www.curtpalme.com

and this in particular -

http://www.curtpalme.com/Box1020.shtm


Mr Bob