I'm thinking we may just want to start a F59 Tweaks thread.

Well, here it is. I took the ball Lee Bailey threw out there and ran with it. Figure this will give current/new/future F59 owners an easier place to find specific posts regarding Hitachi F59 tweaks/adjustments/etc. Enjoy!

Hitachi Service DIY Guilde.rtf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I compiled all the info I found and the steps outlined by others into a single RTF that has corrections and streamlined the info including a walkthrough (by Ballz) and quick ref sections.

It is 3 pages that is easy to read and understand. I hope this helps others.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=66ZVR0OR <<<(the link to the DIY guide)


I just finished my tweaking thanks to all the help of the great community here!

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=66ZVR0OR <<<<<(or here :D )

Figure this would be the best thing to post first here.

Now, let's get some other nuggets of info from others here!

Well, here it is. I took the ball Lee Bailey threw out there and ran with it. Figure this will give current/new/future F59 owners an easier place to find specific posts regarding Hitachi F59 tweaks/adjustments/etc. Enjoy!

It would be a good idea to post all the important stuff, such as where to get manuals and some of the default settings in the first post, and update it as necessary. Keeps people from having to read through EVERY post to get to the good stuff.

Like this information:
Press and hold the MENU key on the TV control panel, then press the REMOTE CONTROL'S MENU+8+SELECT buttons.

To EXIT Adjustment mode, press the INPUT key on control panel, or the EXIT key on the remote.

DCAM Mode:

On the REMOTE Control:

Hold down the TV key
Press the MENU key
Press the INFO key
Release the TV key

REMOTE CONTROL KEY FUNCTIONS WHEN IN DCAM MODE

INPUTS - Blue (13x9 adjust)
ASPECT - ROM Write
DAY/NIGHT - ROM Read
MENU - Remove Color
EXIT - Cross Hatch/Video Mode
INFO - Green
GUIDE - Calculation
2 - Cursor UP
5 - Cursor DOWN
6 - Cursor RIGHT
4 - Cursor LEFT
0 - RED (7x5 Adjust)
STOP KEY - Initialize
PLAY KEY - Raster Position
FAST FORWARD KEY - Phase


To get out of DCAM Mode:
Hold TV Key
Press 0 Key
Press 1 Key
Release TV Key

Use at your own risk. Always write down settings before making any changes!

Where to get the service manual: ServiceManuals.net (http://www.servicemanuals.net/service.aspx)

Some Informational PDFs and Docs:

Hitachi DCAM Manual (http://www.lbaileyht.com/Hitachi_DCAM_Manual.pdf)

Hitachi DIY Guide (http://www.lbaileyht.com/HitachiDIYGuide.rtf)

Lens Striping information:
Advanced Lens Striping (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/greggloewen/advancedlenstriping.html)

HDMI Problem: some people still report a bug displaying over HDMI, its a problem with the HDMI spec. NOT the Hitachi tv itself. Hopefully it will be fixed with a firmware upgrade but there is none as of yet.

Bumpski....

Here is my little contribution to the site. I've created these screen jigs based on the specs in the service manual.

You should be able to get them printed at any reputable print shop. I've sourced a shop locally that can do it rather inexpensively.

One thing to make sure is that they do not scale the documant at all. If they do, the template will not work. If you have any suggestion or requests for changes, let me know.

As a note, I am considering getting these printed and mailing them out as a service for those of you who don't want to get them printed yourselves. If you are interested, PM me and I can get accurate pricing.

Enjoy.

Cavery, what should these be printed on? Or conversely, what would something like this cost mailed out in a tube run from your print shop place?

Thanks,
Matt Hester

Sorry about that, I should have mentioned in the post that you should get it printed on transparent Mylar. It's a clear plastic like material that usually comes in 36" rolls. Any shop that does printing for CAD should know what it is.

As for me shipping it out, It would depend on the size of your screen, but it would be between $55 to $75 shipped, which is cheaper than buying one of the official jigs. I'm going to the printhouse this week, so I'll get more detailed info while I'm there.

Interestingly enough, I did get a response back from SimplayHD about why there were no DVD players listed at their site.

The reason was, there were NO DVD Players that were submitted for testing that PASSED!

For obvious reasons, they can/will not post the failing machines. All I can tell you is that the F59 series does pass their testing for HDMI compatibilty, with the other devices that are on their list.

Interestingly enough, I did get a response back from SimplayHD about why there were no DVD players listed at their site.

The reason was, there were NO DVD Players that were submitted for testing that PASSED!

For obvious reasons, they can/will not post the failing machines. All I can tell you is that the F59 series does pass their testing for HDMI compatibilty, with the other devices that are on their list.


So the HDMI "freakouts" aren't the fault of the Hitachis (or other TVs) but the HDMI gear that gets connected to them.

Still not a single problem w/ my Sony DVP-NS75H via HDMI to my TV.

So the HDMI "freakouts" aren't the fault of the Hitachis (or other TVs) but the HDMI gear that gets connected to them.

Still not a single problem w/ my Sony DVP-NS75H via HDMI to my TV.

This is what I thought all along. Otherwise why would ANY HDMI device work on this set?

yea for copywrite protection !!!

Geometry errors are adjusted in service menu, correct?

-Funk

Geometry errors are adjusted in service menu, correct?

-Funk

DCAM mode in conjucntion w/ the correct screen jig being used. Lee Bailey listed an on-line source for one that's a bit cheaper than the "official" Hitachi part.

Another post here from cavery has a "homemade" jig (taken from the Service Manual's jig illustrations/dimensions) that can be taken to a print shop.

Will I need to go through and make all those adjustments in the DIY guide when I first get my set?

Does the magic focus actually work?

Do those setting work for HD,SD and regular channels?

Should I use those settings with the Lee Bailey setting from the big thread?

Will I be constantly tweaking this TV?

As someone getting ready to purchase their first HD set I find all this info a bit intimidating. I am used to plugging everything in a making a few sound and picture tweaks.

I realize I am asking a lot of questions here but I just want to do things the right way and get the best pq I possibly can out of this set.

Thanks to all of you who are so helpful. A site like this is dream come true for someone who is unfamiliar with all of the technical aspects of these sets.

I find all those service menu adjustments a little too daunting and am afraid of screwing it up. I just got the TV this weekend and overall an very happy with the picture. I am using Lee Bailey's basic settings. Rome, Sunrise Earth, basketball and hockey all looked great. On a few shows, like Sportscenter, it was not quite as good. On my Samsung 30 inch that show looked as good as anything, on this set it's just a little bit off, just a bit grainy on some studio shots. I believe ESPN is 720p and the TV always 1080i, should I turn off 720p on the cable box? Regardles, is this grainyness a convergence issue or something else? Adjusting the sharpness didn't seem to help and I don't have edge enhancements or anything like that turned on.

Re the service menu, are there some basic and simple adjustments I can make without getting into too much detail? Turning off the red push seems easy enough. I don't seem to have any geometry issues, maybe overscan can be adjusted a bit horizontally. I did not see how to do that in the files posted above. When I go into the 9 and 117 point convergence menu everything is white, does that mean there is nothing to adjust there?

I'm thinking of having a pro come in at some point, if I do that and spend a couple of hundred dollars, will he have to come back again in a year?

I find all those service menu adjustments a little too daunting and am afraid of screwing it up. I just got the TV this weekend and overall an very happy with the picture. I am using Lee Bailey's basic settings. Rome, Sunrise Earth, basketball and hockey all looked great. On a few shows, like Sportscenter, it was not quite as good. On my Samsung 30 inch that show looked as good as anything, on this set it's just a little bit off, just a bit grainy on some studio shots. I believe ESPN is 720p and the TV always 1080i, should I turn off 720p on the cable box? Regardles, is this grainyness a convergence issue or something else? Adjusting the sharpness didn't seem to help and I don't have edge enhancements or anything like that turned on.

Re the service menu, are there some basic and simple adjustments I can make without getting into too much detail? Turning off the red push seems easy enough. I don't seem to have any geometry issues, maybe overscan can be adjusted a bit horizontally. I did not see how to do that in the files posted above. When I go into the 9 and 117 point convergence menu everything is white, does that mean there is nothing to adjust there?

I'm thinking of having a pro come in at some point, if I do that and spend a couple of hundred dollars, will he have to come back again in a year?


If it looks good to you dont worry about tweaking everything. Personally all Ive done is the most simple of service menu tweaks to mine. Changed colorg to 01 to fix the red push and changed statg2 to 00 to tame the overly bright whites. These were the only tweaks I found that truly needed to be done. IMO of course. Besides that all other adjustments were made in the regular video menu.

My overscan seems fine. Nothing is ever cut off in the corners. So I dont worry about that eventhough I know I could reduce it more, but why ? It looks great now.

117pt con. Yes you want the blue and red lines to hide behind the white lines as clean and tight as you can get them. Note. Blue will always be fuzzy. Thats on purpose.

Im sure I could go all out like some people have , but I really am satisfied the way this set looks pretty much out the box. And I currently have no issues I want to correct. At some point I will get a pro calibration just to see how good this thing really can get. But Im in no hurry.


How do you have your cable box set to output ? You mention 720p with ESPN. Your cable box should be set to output all HD material to 1080i. This should help, but ESPN is a nototiously bad HD station.

If it looks good to you dont worry about tweaking everything. Personally all Ive done is the most simple of service menu tweaks to mine. Changed colorg to 01 to fix the red push and changed statg2 to 00 to tame the overly bright whites. These were the only tweaks I found that truly needed to be done. IMO of course. Besides that all other adjustments were made in the regular video menu.



I had done the colorg to 01 change but after reading this I did the statg2 to 00(factory setting was 03) and re-did the Avia adjustments in the regular menu. It is outstanding to me from just those things. Now I'm going back and forth as to whether or not to get it calibrated. Part of me says it can't get much better and another part says if just those few adjustments made that big of a difference how good is it going to be with a calibration?

Here is my little contribution to the site. I've created these screen jigs based on the specs in the service manual.

You should be able to get them printed at any reputable print shop. I've sourced a shop locally that can do it rather inexpensively.

One thing to make sure is that they do not scale the documant at all. If they do, the template will not work. If you have any suggestion or requests for changes, let me know.

As a note, I am considering getting these printed and mailing them out as a service for those of you who don't want to get them printed yourselves. If you are interested, PM me and I can get accurate pricing.

Enjoy.


Just a heads-up to those who are contemplating getting cavery's cool screen jig pdf's printed themselves---

I recently inquired with my local FedEx/Kinko's about getting a jig made for my 51". Don't know if this is the case chain-wide, but locally, Kinko's does not have transparent mylar rolls for their AutoCAD machines. They do have vellum paper rolls. Vellum is fairly translucent, but not transparent. Kinko's gave me a small piece of vellum which I took home and placed on my screen while in DCAM mode (w/ green isolated). When placed firmly on screen, the green lines shine thru very well. Looks that vellum will work fine, although mylar would sill be the #1 choice if available.

Just download the appropriate size jig from cavery's link, burn it to cd-rom and take to your local shop. A 51" vellum is going to run me around 30 bucks US.

The Canadian (I believe) on-line source for screen jigs that Lee Bailey found a while back has the option of either vellum or mylar--with vellum a bit less $$.

The following is from a PM conversation I've been having w/ cavery this week regarding his screen jigs. For those who are considering getting/using a jig and have either tweaked/plan to tweak their set's overscan, you should read this:

I have to warn you. If you use this template, your overscan will change. The geometry and the overscan pots are connected. By that I mean if you line up the geometry based on the jig and then adjust the overscan pots, you are changing the size of the DCAM grid. Therefore, if you make any changes to the pots after convergence, your grid won't match the template anymore.

On the other side of that, if you then went in and re-matched the grid to your jig, your overscan would go back to where it was before you adjusted the pots which would definitely stress the convergence IC's.

Hitachi's official grid dimensions will give you about 5 - 5.5% left/right and about 3.5 - 4% top/bottom.

jwebb1970 add-on (seems like an acceptable overscan amount to me, btw)

Because of that, here is how I would approach it.

1. Set overscan pots to factory specs (this ensures that your overscan voltage is within the recommended limits. If you have already adjusted your pots and skip this part, there is a definite chance that you might stress and shorten the life of your convergance IC's)

To do this you need to turn on the TV, press the blue service button and the MUTE button on the remote at the same time.

This will bring up the overscan measurement screen. What you are concerned about here are the green lines. You'll need to measure them horizontally and vertically.

Horizontally, you need to measure the lines from end to end and adjust the pot. When the pot is set correctly the length should be:

51" = 1070mm +/- 5mm is ok or 42"
57" = 1195mm +/- 5mm is ok or 47"
65" = 1365mm +/- 5mm is ok or 53.75"

edit: for those w/o metric measuring tape--or just abhor the metric system, inches conversion are also listed (rounded within the +/-5mm tolerance per the service manual)

For the Vertical adjustment you need to measure the vertical distance of the two lines from each other at thier closest point. Both lines curve towards each other. Measure it at the closest point (should be near the center). When adjusted properly it should measure:

51" = 560mm +/- 5mm is ok or 22"
57" = 625mm +/- 5mm is ok or 24.5"
65" = 710mm +/- 5mm is ok or 28"

Again, this procedure puts your overscan voltage back into the factory recommended range.

Once that is done, you are ready to do the convergence/geometry adjustment.

2.Start by clearing the DCAM data (hold the blue service button while you power on the tv).

This will bring up the DCAM grid in it's totally uncorrected state (all curved lines). From here start by lining the green up to the grid using raster, 3x3, 7x5, 13x9, etc. Then do red and blue.

jwebb1970 add-on #2 (The service manual suggests that once green is lined up to the jig, you should write that data to ROM. This will lock in green geometry to memory. After that, you can remove the jig from the screen and then continue with lining up red/blue using the same order of operation--raster, 3x3, etc---then writing THAT all to ROM and reinitializing Magic Focus. This step is not actually necessary, but if something were to happen --power loss, accidental unplugging, etc.---during red/blue lineup, you'd still have the corrected green in memory. More of a time-saving insurance policy should something go bad)


It took me about an hour to an hour and a half to finish.

jwebb1970add-on #3 (Same here-green will eat up most of the time, it seems)

From here, if you want to adjust overscan further, you will have to go back in and adjust the pots. If you do do this, you will change the size of the DCAM grid and it will no longer match the screen jig. If you keep your adjustments small, it shouldn't change the actual geometry, but you will have to re-align red and blue.

Hopefully this helps and is easy to follow. Again, if you have any more questions drop me a line.

Cheers,
Cory



This same info is found in the F59 service manual, just put into a bit more understandable language courtesy of cavery (Cory). I strongly recommend having the service manual on hand prior to attempting this. If for no other reason, you will have pictures of what the overscan screen (called horizontal/vertical size adj screen in the SM) and uncorrected DCAM grid look like if you have never seen them before.

Of course, if you have the 20+ yrs of calibration experience someone like Mr Bob-for example-has, you can just eyeball all of this w/o the use of any screen jig.

My Jedi powers are nowhere near those of Bob, unfortunately. :) Doubt most brave (or foolhardy) AVS FORUM DIY'ers visual acuity is, either.

So, I'll be "doin' a jig".

Good info jwebb1970. Thanks.

I had done the colorg to 01 change but after reading this I did the statg2 to 00(factory setting was 03) and re-did the Avia adjustments in the regular menu. It is outstanding to me from just those things. Now I'm going back and forth as to whether or not to get it calibrated. Part of me says it can't get much better and another part says if just those few adjustments made that big of a difference how good is it going to be with a calibration?


What's left is actually setting up the grayscale on the set to accurately track across the scale from 0% to 100% brightness. This will be quite noticable when it has been completed. If you don't have the equipment/experience, you'll have to find a competent calibration person. Depends on what you're happy with as well.

Got cavery's 51" jig @ Kinko's yesterday. On vellum, it actually ran about $18.00 after tax.

Put it up on screen last night. Vellum WILL work just fine for this jig--although mylar would be better. Did the overscan "reset" then re-did convergence (with uncorrected DCAM). Geometry is now super-solid and the factory overscan levels are totaly acceptable to me. Slight cutoff of the ABC HD and MHD screen bugs, but if that's all the picture I'm losing--so be it. I'll take that over geometry "speedbumps" any day. No more pincushioning effect of the edges. Also had to tweak the horizontal position a tad in the service menu, just to get everything centered-both for 16x9/HD and 4:3/gray bars.

Now to just get the blue gun "smudge" fixed......then I'll finally be 100% (or close) satisfied!

Thanks again to cavery for both the jig downloads and his help via PM to me.

Will I need to go through and make all those adjustments in the DIY guide when I first get my set?.

You should make all the adjustments in the user menus for video setting when you first turn on your TV, IMO.


Does the magic focus actually work?.
It does work, but it does not perform as well as the 117pt manual adjustment.


Do those setting work for HD,SD and regular channels?.

So far, yes they do.


Should I use those settings with the Lee Bailey setting from the big thread?.

It's a good starting point.


Will I be constantly tweaking this TV? .

It depends on how picky you are about how your picture looks.


As someone getting ready to purchase their first HD set I find all this info a bit intimidating. I am used to plugging everything in a making a few sound and picture tweaks.

I realize I am asking a lot of questions here but I just want to do things the right way and get the best pq I possibly can out of this set.

Thanks to all of you who are so helpful. A site like this is dream come true for someone who is unfamiliar with all of the technical aspects of these sets.

If you find this all too intimidating, then I would suggest you go for an LCD, DLP, LCOS, SXRD, or PLASMA TV. Though for the price, you probably won't get this low for a 57" set in the newer technologies. Even those do not have calibrated color out of the box.

SPACEMAKER....I'd think that , outside of an occasional convergence touchup, you wouldn't really need to do much tweaking at all once you got the basic service menu tweaks done (or got it calibrated).

And those ocasional convergence touchups could just be done from the "Magic Focus" user menu--i.e. 9 and /or 117-pt manual.

Although it would be preferrable (for future drift as well as the potential health of the convergence ICs) to do touchups in DCAM mode, so that they are written to ROM.

More of a mod then a tweak.. but cost affective and it works...

After looking ALL over the net... I came up with my own "protective screen" solution. I and my wife only watch TV at night our living room can become fairly dark during the day if we want it to be. But the little kids are the only ones that have the TV on during the day for sponge bob ect...

I measured the front of my 65f59A TO OUTER EDGES! Called up VOS glass. Said i want a piece of 3/16 polycarbonate cut to these dimensions with the edges sanded a little.
$103.00

Went to Jo anns fabrics. Baught some velcro dots. (OR VERY SMALL STRIPS)
4 for each corner 3 in the middle and sides. 4.00

Presto. polycarbonate protective glass that is scratch "resistant" just as easy to clean as your screen AND removeable when you want it down! just be careful taking it off. Takes two people here. At night or when it's dark it's 100% invisable. During the day it can catch one hell of a glare! but your screen is SAFE FROM KIDS!!! no coloring...hitting with toys.. oily fingerprints.. I have owned my TV less then two weeks and have had to clean the polycarbonate glass 6 or 7 times and only my main screen once.... kids WILL and DO touch the big pretty screen....

EDIT!! Acrylic scratches easier then polycarbonate FYI

Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen....the "official" F59 HDMI Fix is here. And you can do it yourself!!!!!

Late this afternoon, I managed to get ahold of the official "Service Bulletin"--dated Jan '07--that Hitachi has recently circulated to all Authorized Service Centers. The particular source of the bulletin asked to remain anonymous, so don't ask where I got it....'cause I ain't talkin'! :D Just take and apply the following info and then enjoy whatever HDMI gear you've got without any more "freakouts".

This is a Service Menu adjustment that you can do yourself, so no need to wait on a tech to come and do it for you. Although Hitachi likely would rather a tech do it, I figure this saves 'em a few bucks in warranty service calls.

The intro of the bulletin states:

"Strange symptoms like TV shuts down, Tint Shifted, All Red or Pink picture, Sync loss, etc when using HDMI output from some Set Top Boxes. Ususally starts after warm-up period of 1/2 hour. May be temporarily corrected by AC reset or turning the TV Off and ON".

Sound familiar?

"Countermeasure: Make the following change to the I2C Service Menu."

Here's what to do.

1. Turn on TV (duh) and receive any signal.

2. Access service menu (hold down MENU button on front of set and press MENU, then 8, then SELECT on remote.

3. First page of sm appears. "ADJUST MODE DP6X" followed by SERVICE, SUB BRIGHT, etc. Scroll down thru settings list (or press MENU on remote twice) until the sm list that contains the parameter E2PROM appears. Highlight E2PROM and press SELECT.

4. E2PROM list appears. There will be a list of "ADDRESS"-es on the left (each ADDRESS will say A* and then 2 letters and or numbers. To the right of each ADDRESS will be a 2 digit DATA setting. These are what will be altered.

5. You will need to change most of these ADDRESS DATA parameters. Each one and what they are to change to will be listed below. What you are doing will change your set's software--this isn't a firmware fix.

Remember, after selecting and changing each of these, you MUST press SELECT on your remote before moving to the next ADDRESS. This puts the changes in memory. The list (including original and new settings) are:



ADDRESS DATA (Original/New)

0*A00 FF / 00
0*A01 FF / 13
0*A02 FF / 00
0*A03 FF / C3
0*A04 00 / 00 (no change)
0*A05 00 / 0C
0*A06 00 / 89
0*A07 00 / 9C
0*A08 00 / 00 (no change)
0*A09 00 / 0C
0*A0A 00 / 89
0*A0B 00 / 9D
0*A0C 00 / 05
0*A0D 00 / 68
0*A0E 00 / FC
0*A0F 00 / 9F
0*A10 00 / 89
0*A11 00 / 0C
0*A12 00 / 30

Again, make sure to press SELECT on the remote after each change!!!

6. Once you're done, exit the Service Menu and turn off TV. Unplug the set's AC from the wall/powerstrip/whatever for 5 SECONDS. Then, plug back in and turn TV back on.

7. Re-enter the Service Menu. Now you need to confirm that the fix has stuck. When you first enter the SM, where it says SERVICE/SUB BRIGHT, etc, there should be a code to the right of the ADJUST MODE DP6X. Prior to the fix, it should have said "V019" (white). If the fix took, it should now say "V195" (magenta).

If done properly, it should stick. You can now exit the SM and proceed to watch your HDMI-delivered video in all it's 100% digital glory.

You can all thank me (and my "source") later. :D

Money always works :p

thank you so much jwebb1970 and your sources it worked good it took about 10 min say its easy to do but a lot of clicking to do make sure you check all settings before you exit i was close to exit and i forgot to press select on one and caught it right before.



p.s. would this change the brightness or anything like that

jwebb1970-------EXCELLENT

Nice job, jwebb1970! ;)

:) i love the internet :)


:p p.s. who are your source :p

jwebb -

Awesome! Just saved it in my archives, and printed it out for inclusion in my on location cheat sheets!


Mr Bob

I'll give this a try tonight. Anyone go back and see if any service menu items you had changed in the TA1360 menu went back to their defaults? I'm gonna write mine down first before I perform this update.

I tested out the fix last night and it seems to work flawlessly. I tried playing my PS3 for around half an hour without a single hiccup. That's never happened before. Cheers to JWebb. Indeed the internet is a wonderful thing.

Just a personal warning that Hitachi's Canadian Tech Support has been useless as it gets with this issue. I don't want to go on the attack here but any Canucks reading this thread should avoid their help if they don't want to become extremely angry and frustrated. Not only are they pathetically mis-informed but also, in a weird way, defensive in the "support" that they offer. I currently have an open complaint with the BBB against them. [end rant]

This board has been such a great discovery for me. Thanks again JWebb!

I'll give this a try tonight. Anyone go back and see if any service menu items you had changed in the TA1360 menu went back to their defaults? I'm gonna write mine down first before I perform this update. I haven't gone into the TA1360 menu but I have checked the White BAL STD settings and they were still intact. I did notice that the V019 version did not change to the magenta color if change was accepted. If I go into SM the changes I have made are still there.

its does not take long to do its just a lot of clicking and i mean a lot and make sure u hit select

Is this fix legit? I have been delaying my purchase of a HDMI upconverting dvd player until there was a solid fix for the HDMI issue.

Is this fix legit? I have been delaying my purchase of a HDMI upconverting dvd player until there was a solid fix for the HDMI issue.

Yes. Came from an actual January, 2007 Hitachi Service Bulletin that was sent to all Authorized Service Centers.

As an Authorized Servicer, I can also confirm that the bulletin is official. As to whether it actually fixes anything will remain to be seen. (I have not done one myself) Engineering changes don't always have the desired effect. :rolleyes:

I haven't gone into the TA1360 menu but I have checked the White BAL STD settings and they were still intact. I did notice that the V019 version did not change to the magenta color if change was accepted. If I go into SM the changes I have made are still there.

I take it that you powered off the TV, then unplugged it from the wall for at least 5 seconds? I tried this out last night, and it now shows the version in magenta as claimed. Also, it did not change any of my other SM changes.

I can attest that this fix absolutely works. I've been using my Sony DVD player and PS3 all weekend with only a couple of minor hiccups (a one second black screen while playing Resistance and a two second "picture-shift" while watching an upscaled DVD ( the entire screen moves about 10% horizontally and then re-centers). Still, though, it's a massive improvement over before where I couldn't go more than 10 minutes without some screwy issue (particularily with the PS3).

Definate thumbs up to this tweak so far.

I take it that you powered off the TV, then unplugged it from the wall for at least 5 seconds? I tried this out last night, and it now shows the version in magenta as claimed. Also, it did not change any of my other SM changes.
I got it to stick-It helps when you use the right input.

The service menu changes had no effect on my HDMI problem. I confirmed they stuck (a pink V195 is displayed in the service menu now).

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3105/img22470zr.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img22470zr.jpg)

Colors are all messed up at 1080i via HDMI (on the left in that pic). Colors are just fine at 1080i via component.

I guess I'll call Hitachi back (they left me a message about this service bulletin)... they'll probably want to send a tech out to do this service menu tweak so, for my warranties sake, is it best to put it back to how it was and make no mention of how I changed it myself and it didn't work?

I made the SM changes last night and watched the entire super bowl through the Comcast (Moto) HD DVR without any HDMI issues.

JWebb: Thanks for the HDMI fix.

Only have my HTPC hooked up via HDMI and the freakouts were very sporadic. If this completely eliminates them, I'll probably get an HDMI switcher and move everything I can to that input.

Plan on picking up a PS3 when Motorstorm is released, so hopefully this completely solves the issue.

dO YOU KNOW WHAT STEPS TO TAKE TO HAVE THE SIDE BARS DISAPPEAR FROM ALL CHANNELS

dO YOU KNOW WHAT STEPS TO TAKE TO HAVE THE SIDE BARS DISAPPEAR FROM ALL CHANNELS

If you're talking about all 480i material, you can change the default aspect to 4:3 zoom or stretch in the user menus. You may have to then manually change to 16:9 when watching HD.

Hey guys. Good work making this thread. I think it will help a lot of people out.

My dad purchased a 51F59A in November, our family was looking into getting an HDTV during the black friday sales. My dad ended up getting a great deal on the set from circuit city and we were all very excited about it. Especially me, since i'm a big gamer and had just purchased a Wii and PS3, with my 360 upstairs on our family SDTV craving an HDTV to really shine. (Even though i'm incredibly paranoid about burn-in.)

In my household I was the biggest supporter or spending all this money to buy a new tv. But now i'm feeling a bit guilty. Something is off about the picture quality. The middle of the display is beautiful, with a very sharp picture (according to my noob HDTV eyes). But towards the sides of the display it becomes very blurry. This is most apparent on the 360 dashboard and the ps3's XMB GUI. Text very blurry, especially in contrast to text towards the center of the screen.

I've tried to do magic convergence to fix the picture, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. I've also tried to tweak many of the menu settings to no avail. I'm using similar ones to everyone here with lee's suggested settings. As i said before, i'm not expert as this is my first HD set, but i'm very anxious to fix the quality. Might there be any tweaks in the servicer's menu that i should try? Or is the TV a good candidate for being returned? Any other advice?

(Also, i haven't seen many problems via HDMI on ps3. Does this happen to everyone?)

Thanks guys.

Hey guys. Good work making this thread. I think it will help a lot of people out.

My dad purchased a 51F59A in November, our family was looking into getting an HDTV during the black friday sales. My dad ended up getting a great deal on the set from circuit city and we were all very excited about it. Especially me, since i'm a big gamer and had just purchased a Wii and PS3, with my 360 upstairs on our family SDTV craving an HDTV to really shine. (Even though i'm incredibly paranoid about burn-in.)

In my household I was the biggest supporter or spending all this money to buy a new tv. But now i'm feeling a bit guilty. Something is off about the picture quality. The middle of the display is beautiful, with a very sharp picture (according to my noob HDTV eyes). But towards the sides of the display it becomes very blurry. This is most apparent on the 360 dashboard and the ps3's XMB GUI. Text very blurry, especially in contrast to text towards the center of the screen.

I've tried to do magic convergence to fix the picture, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. I've also tried to tweak many of the menu settings to no avail. I'm using similar ones to everyone here with lee's suggested settings. As i said before, i'm not expert as this is my first HD set, but i'm very anxious to fix the quality. Might there be any tweaks in the servicer's menu that i should try? Or is the TV a good candidate for being returned? Any other advice?

(Also, i haven't seen many problems via HDMI on ps3. Does this happen to everyone?)

Thanks guys.

To answer the easy question. No not everyone has HDMI issues. I dont.

I have a 360 and it looks great . No blurriness at all . And this was before I even tweaked anything. You shouyld not have blurry sides.

Check over all your menu settings and see if something is activated that shouldnt be like noise reduction. Give us a run down of your settings and how your connected to the tv.

My settings are as follows:

Contrast: 40
Brightness 45
Color 48
Tint centered
Sharpness 40
Color Temp standard
All enhancements off

With my ps3 i'm connected by HDMI
Wii&360 connection is component cable.

Let me know if you need any other settings.

Edit: Just now, i experienced the picture jump a tad off screen from my tv. So it appears it is a problem for me as well. Now i'm even more thankful for this thread.

I tried the HDMI fix last night and it didn't work for me.

Checked to see if the settings stuck after unplugging and they did.

I'm using an Oppo 970HD hooked via HDMI.

Watched 1 DVD and almost immediately had the shift issue, which happened several times during the movie.
Haven't had any other issues yet (TV turning off, green screen, pink screen, etc)

Maybe it fixed those issues, I'll report back when I've watched some more DVDs

*Thank you jwebb for posting this, even if it doesn't work for me, it might work for others.

I tried the HDMI fix last night and it didn't work for me.

Checked to see if the settings stuck after unplugging and they did.

I'm using an Oppo 970HD hooked via HDMI.

Watched 1 DVD and almost immediately had the shift issue, which happened several times during the movie.
Haven't had any other issues yet (TV turning off, green screen, pink screen, etc)

Maybe it fixed those issues, I'll report back when I've watched some more DVDs

*Thank you jwebb for posting this, even if it doesn't work for me, it might work for others.

Do you mean a horizontal shift in the picture? Like a momentary horizontal shift that corrects itself after a second or 2?

Don't think the HDMI fix addresses this---or can. Prior to applying the fix to my set, the only HDMI "freakout" I'd experienced was the horizontal shift. However, if your picture via HDMI was changing color/tint, causing the set to turn off, etc., this fix does address these problems.

I use a Sony DVP-NS75H upconverting DVD player via HDMI. After about a month of very regular use, I had noticed this shift occuring very infrequently (maybe 4-3 times max in the last 30+ days). And it's only ever happened once during a movie, that I've seen, and then only one time out of maybe 5-6 DVDs watched.

When researching this on the DVD player threads, I found that other Sony users have had this happen as well. And this was happening with various makes/models/types of HDTVs. Apparently, Sony's predecessor to the 75H had this problem, but even more so. I've also read/heard about other HDMI gear occasionally experiencing momentary horizontal shifts.

While I couldn't say with 100% certainty, it seems that the shift issue may just be yet another problem stemming from the lack of HDMI standardization or some other HDMI-related bug. Likely a reason as to why SimplayHD doesn't have a single HDMI DVD player on their list of "certified compatable" equipment--whereas Hitachi is one of the manufacturers SimplayHD lists as producing "SimplayHD-Certified" TVs. So the shift is not a fault of Hitachi or their TVs. This is the first time I've heard this happening w/ an Oppo. If it's happening a lot with you, I'd consider contacting Oppo about it. That company is all about customer service and may even have some sort of firmware/software fix available that addresses the shift issue.

Something Sony will likely NEVER have! :mad:

Yes, that is exatcly what it is, shifting 2-3 inches horizontally to the left for a few seconds, then shifting back.
I'll test a bit more, and if no other HDMI problems occur, I will contact Oppo about the shift issue.

The reason I thought it was Hitachi related is because I had the same shifting issue with my Sony DVP75* player, but now I know Sony also shows this problem.

Hey guys. Good work making this thread. I think it will help a lot of people out.

My dad purchased a 51F59A in November, our family was looking into getting an HDTV during the black friday sales. My dad ended up getting a great deal on the set from circuit city and we were all very excited about it. Especially me, since i'm a big gamer and had just purchased a Wii and PS3, with my 360 upstairs on our family SDTV craving an HDTV to really shine. (Even though i'm incredibly paranoid about burn-in.)

In my household I was the biggest supporter or spending all this money to buy a new tv. But now i'm feeling a bit guilty. Something is off about the picture quality. The middle of the display is beautiful, with a very sharp picture (according to my noob HDTV eyes). But towards the sides of the display it becomes very blurry. This is most apparent on the 360 dashboard and the ps3's XMB GUI. Text very blurry, especially in contrast to text towards the center of the screen.

I've tried to do magic convergence to fix the picture, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. I've also tried to tweak many of the menu settings to no avail. I'm using similar ones to everyone here with lee's suggested settings. As i said before, i'm not expert as this is my first HD set, but i'm very anxious to fix the quality. Might there be any tweaks in the servicer's menu that i should try? Or is the TV a good candidate for being returned? Any other advice?

(Also, i haven't seen many problems via HDMI on ps3. Does this happen to everyone?)

Thanks guys.

I would definitely call this in for service. They need to check the set's mechanical focus. Register this online with Hitachi, then call Circuit City for service, since that is what Hitachi will tell you to do anyways. If it can't be fixed to your satisfaction, you may have to deal directly with Hitachi to get it fixed if CC won't replace it.

Have you tried the 117pt convergence in the Magic Focus menu? You can see if your convergence is off there, and adjust it. Magic Focus does not actually FOCUS anything, it is trying to adjust convergence.

(Also, i haven't seen many problems via HDMI on ps3. Does this happen to everyone?)



Apparently not. I never had one of the picture freakouts that others have had/the HDMI fix addresses using my Sony DVD player via HDMI. Still applied the HDMI fix anyway---just to be up to date, software-wise.

And yeah, like Lee said, get Hitachi on the "fuzzy picture" problem. Sounds like your focus might need some adjustments.

I use a Sony DVP-NS75H upconverting DVD player via HDMI.

When researching this on the DVD player threads, I found that other Sony users have had this happen as well. And this was happening with various makes/models/types of HDTVs. Apparently, Sony's predecessor to the 75H had this problem, but even more so. I've also read/heard about other HDMI gear occasionally experiencing momentary horizontal shifts.

While I couldn't say with 100% certainty, it seems that the shift issue may just be yet another problem stemming from the lack of HDMI standardization or some other HDMI-related bug. Likely a reason as to why SimplayHD doesn't have a single HDMI DVD player on their list of "certified compatable" equipment--whereas Hitachi is one of the manufacturers SimplayHD lists as producing "SimplayHD-Certified" TVs. So the shift is not a fault of Hitachi or their TVs. This is the first time I've heard this happening w/ an Oppo. If it's happening a lot with you, I'd consider contacting Oppo about it. That company is all about customer service and may even have some sort of firmware/software fix available that addresses the shift issue.

Something Sony will likely NEVER have! :mad:

Wow! This is great to know. I have exactly the same DVD player as you as well as a PS3. I wonder if this has something to do with Sony firmware? :confused:

Wow! This is great to know. I have exactly the same DVD player as you as well as a PS3. I wonder if this has something to do with Sony firmware? :confused:

Possible. But djphil (who I had responded to with the post you last quoted) was having HDMI horiz. shift w/ an Oppo player. And I've heard other shift issues going on with various HDMI gear before.

May just be a overall HDMI bug. Don't know.

Same problem with Sony and Panasonic dvd player ...Its the T.V

Same problem with Sony and Panasonic dvd player ...Its the T.V


This issue (horiz. shift on HDMI) has also happened on other (not Hitachi TVs).

So, it's likely not just this set.

i dont now if this is an hdmi problem when im watching hd channel for about an hour to 2 hours it turn all grey but this only happen sometime and i did the hdmi fix.




Thank You

Can you guys please explain how I can change the colorg to 01 and the statg2 to 00.

I know how to get into the service menu but I don't see these two options anywhere.

Thanks.

Can you guys please explain how I can change the colorg to 01 and the statg2 to 00.

I know how to get into the service menu but I don't see these two options anywhere.

Thanks.

When you get into the Service Menu, hit your MENU button until you see the TA1360 item displayed. Once you're into the TA1360 menu, you'll have to cursor down for a while until you get the the items COLORG and STATG2.

all this should def come in handy when I get my 65, hopefully sooner than later...

When you get into the Service Menu, hit your MENU button until you see the TA1360 item displayed. Once you're into the TA1360 menu, you'll have to cursor down for a while until you get the the items COLORG and STATG2.

Thanks. Cheers :)

I have the 65F59 and I love it. It is only 25" deep which is almost equal to a similiarly sized LCD/DLP RPTV. It doesn't need a stand so I saved another $200. Even with my basic adjustments, the picture looks very good. I am sure that after an ISF calibration these TV's will put out amazing picture quality. These TV's are the deal of the century. It will give you at least 10-15 years of HD glory. Don't be afraid, go and get them before they are gone forever. Does anybody know how to adjust the overscan on this TV? I did the 117pt manual convergence and it made a huge difference but only then I realized that I should have adjusted the overscan first. Thanks in advance.

This issue has been frustrating since June for me. Now that I have the set tweaked to my satisfaction, I wonder how much better the picture will be. I noticed when I switched to component for my upscaling DVD player the picture looked even better on some DVD's. I plan on keeping component hooked up to my DVD player and hopefully won't have the old issues crop up again.

I have the 65F59 and I love it. It is only 25" deep which is almost equal to a similiarly sized LCD/DLP RPTV. It doesn't need a stand so I saved another $200. Even with my basic adjustments, the picture looks very good. I am sure that after an ISF calibration these TV's will put out amazing picture quality. These TV's are the deal of the century. It will give you at least 10-15 years of HD glory. Don't be afraid, go and get them before they are gone forever. Does anybody know how to adjust the overscan on this TV? I did the 117pt manual convergence and it made a huge difference but only then I realized that I should have adjusted the overscan first. Thanks in advance.

Overscan adj is done via the horzontal/vertical size pots inside the front service access panel (behind the front spkr grill). Small white "philips head" pots.

Before doing this, however, read the following. Has to do w/ overscan vs. geometry. From a PM conversation I had w/ cavery aka Cory (who posted the convergence screen jigs on this thread). Sorry for the length---a lot has to do w/ using the screen jigs--but has info you should read first before tweaking your set's overscan.

The following is from a PM conversation I've been having w/ cavery this week regarding his screen jigs. For those who are considering getting/using a jig and have either tweaked/plan to tweak their set's overscan, you should read this:

I have to warn you. If you use this template, your overscan will change. The geometry and the overscan pots are connected. By that I mean if you line up the geometry based on the jig and then adjust the overscan pots, you are changing the size of the DCAM grid. Therefore, if you make any changes to the pots after convergence, your grid won't match the template anymore.

On the other side of that, if you then went in and re-matched the grid to your jig, your overscan would go back to where it was before you adjusted the pots which would definitely stress the convergence IC's.

Hitachi's official grid dimensions will give you about 5 - 5.5% left/right and about 3.5 - 4% top/bottom.

jwebb1970 add-on (seems like an acceptable overscan amount to me, btw)

Because of that, here is how I would approach it.

1. Set overscan pots to factory specs (this ensures that your overscan voltage is within the recommended limits. If you have already adjusted your pots and skip this part, there is a definite chance that you might stress and shorten the life of your convergance IC's)

To do this you need to turn on the TV, press the blue service button and the MUTE button on the remote at the same time.

This will bring up the overscan measurement screen. What you are concerned about here are the green lines. You'll need to measure them horizontally and vertically.

Horizontally, you need to measure the lines from end to end and adjust the pot. When the pot is set correctly the length should be:

51" = 1070mm
57" = 1195mm ---> +/- 5mm is ok
65" = 1365mm

For the Vertical adjustment you need to measure the vertical distance of the two lines from each other at thier closest point. Both lines curve towards each other. Measure it at the closest point (should be near the center). When adjusted properly it should measure:

51" = 560mm
57" = 625mm ---> +/- 5mm is ok
65" = 710mm

Again, this procedure puts your overscan voltage back into the factory recommended range.

Once that is done, you are ready to do the convergence/geometry adjustment.

2.Start by clearing the DCAM data (hold the blue service button while you power on the tv).

This will bring up the DCAM grid in it's totally uncorrected state (all curved lines). From here start by lining the green up to the grid using raster, 3x3, 7x5, 13x9, etc. Then do red and blue.

jwebb1970 add-on #2 (The service manual suggests that once green is lined up to the jig, you should write that data to ROM. This will lock in green geometry to memory. After that, you can remove the jig from the screen and then continue with lining up red/blue using the same order of operation--raster, 3x3, etc---then writing THAT all to ROM and reinitializing Magic Focus. This step is not actually necessary, but if something were to happen --power loss, accidental unplugging, etc.---during red/blue lineup, you'd still have the corrected green in memory. More of a time-saving insurance policy should something go bad)


It took me about an hour to an hour and a half to finish.

jwebb1970add-on #3 (Same here-green will eat up most of the time, it seems)

From here, if you want to adjust overscan further, you will have to go back in and adjust the pots. If you do do this, you will change the size of the DCAM grid and it will no longer match the screen jig. If you keep your adjustments small, it shouldn't change the actual geometry, but you will have to re-align red and blue.

Hopefully this helps and is easy to follow. Again, if you have any more questions drop me a line.

Cheers,
Cory

It is possible that your set came from the factory with more overscan than the factory standard. But overscan adj can and likely will affect geometry. Geometry can be corrected w/o a screen jig---by eyeballing it and/or using an outside generated pattern (Mr Bob does it this way during calibrations).

I find that the factory standard overscan settings work for me fine. I used the overscan reset technique mentioned above after I had a jig printed. I'd had some geomtry issues after doing an overscan adj some time ago. Now my 51 is back to "factory specs" for overscan/geometry. In fact, I think my set may have had more overscan OOB than it does now. I might be losing 1/8 on an inch on the left and right sides at most. Most this cuts off for me is occasionally a small portion of a network ID bug--and even then it usually doesn't. ESPN bottom screen info, for example, is all visible.

I'd love to be able to adjust the overscan on my 51" - mainly because I use this set for a lot of gaming and some HUDs end up getting cut off. The only problem is that I'm completely intimidated by the above info. Doing the HDMI tweak and udjusting the red push / white level is one thing - this is definately another ball of wax. I'm afraid that I would royally screw things up. I wish I could just get over it but it's really irritating with some games. :(

Hey guys. Good work making this thread. I think it will help a lot of people out.

My dad purchased a 51F59A in November, our family was looking into getting an HDTV during the black friday sales. My dad ended up getting a great deal on the set from circuit city and we were all very excited about it. Especially me, since i'm a big gamer and had just purchased a Wii and PS3, with my 360 upstairs on our family SDTV craving an HDTV to really shine. (Even though i'm incredibly paranoid about burn-in.)

In my household I was the biggest supporter or spending all this money to buy a new tv. But now i'm feeling a bit guilty. Something is off about the picture quality. The middle of the display is beautiful, with a very sharp picture (according to my noob HDTV eyes). But towards the sides of the display it becomes very blurry. This is most apparent on the 360 dashboard and the ps3's XMB GUI. Text very blurry, especially in contrast to text towards the center of the screen.

I've tried to do magic convergence to fix the picture, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. I've also tried to tweak many of the menu settings to no avail. I'm using similar ones to everyone here with lee's suggested settings. As i said before, i'm not expert as this is my first HD set, but i'm very anxious to fix the quality. Might there be any tweaks in the servicer's menu that i should try? Or is the TV a good candidate for being returned? Any other advice?

(Also, i haven't seen many problems via HDMI on ps3. Does this happen to everyone?)

Thanks guys.


Games without fixed images included will not screenburn your set.

Blurriness can be caused either by focusing or by convergence error. Yours sounds like conv error, as focusing rarely affects center any differently from sides.

Mr Bob

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I tried the 117 point convergence. The grid is pretty much completely white, without any blue red or yellow lines as i would imagine you'd find with bad convergence. (Correct me if i'm wrong.)

However, the grid becomes blurry anywhere away from the middle of the screen.

When i go to 9 point convergence the corner crosses seem to be blurry while the middle points much more clear. But with the white on black it's hard to tell it's so bright. All of the crosses are white.

Is there any way to me to adjust a focusing setting? Or is this really my recourse besides having a technician look at it?

I'd love to be able to adjust the overscan on my 51" - mainly because I use this set for a lot of gaming and some HUDs end up getting cut off. The only problem is that I'm completely intimidated by the above info. Doing the HDMI tweak and udjusting the red push / white level is one thing - this is definately another ball of wax. I'm afraid that I would royally screw things up. I wish I could just get over it but it's really irritating with some games. :(

Not being a gamer myself--outside of a little old school Mario Kart 64--the "factory spec" overscan works for me just fine. At worst, I lose maybe an 1/8 inch off of the ABC HD and Universal HD ID bugs. Did notice while watching the beginning of DIE HARD on DVD, the edge of a letter in the opening credts was slightly cut off. The trade-off of slight image loss vs having perfect geometry and much improved edge convergence (both issues when I first reigned in overscan a while back) is acceptable for me.

But, I'm not a hardcore gamer. So I won't tell you to "get over it". How much of the various HUDs are getting cut off? Have you checked your set's overscan amount using something like AVIA or DVE? It may be that your set's overscan is a bit more than the "factory spec" of 5-5.5% sides/3.5-4% top & bottom. Mine was a bit OOB. Using the steps cavery gave me in regards to overscan/geometry using his screen jigs wasn't too difficult. I (and likely he) would be willing to walk you thru it, if need be. You could use the F59s overscan check technique mentioned in cavery's instructions w/o actually changing anything. Just need someting that measures in metric to check the mm measurements btwn the onscreen green lines.

If DIY-ing such things yourself causes worry, you could get a tech to check it. Won't be a warranty call, I'm sure, so it'll cost you at least the $$ of a service call. And despite the reputation (not totally unwarranted, I bet) local "authorized" techs get, you could check to see if yours seems knowledgable in such matters. Worst case, if your tech really screwed up your picture...well, it was a Hitachi tech that did it. Hitachi would then have to make it right one way or another.

The other option is to hire an ISF calibrator. Can be pricey, but I know guys like Mr Bob can and do reign in overscan AND fix geometry w/o the use of a screen jig.

Of course, Mr Bob has those mad Jedi skills going on.

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I tried the 117 point convergence. The grid is pretty much completely white, without any blue red or yellow lines as i would imagine you'd find with bad convergence. (Correct me if i'm wrong.)

However, the grid becomes blurry anywhere away from the middle of the screen.

When i go to 9 point convergence the corner crosses seem to be blurry while the middle points much more clear. But with the white on black it's hard to tell it's so bright. All of the crosses are white.

Is there any way to me to adjust a focusing setting? Or is this really my recourse besides having a technician look at it?

If it's a focus issue, it should be fixable. Focus can be adj mechanically at the lens. The F59s have a "wingnut" lever that is adjustable. If wary about doing this yourself, get a tech on it.

How long have you had the set? Depending on where you bought it, the retailer should be able to send a tech out or possibly replace it for you if it's only been within a certain timeframe (CC is 30 days No Questions Asked on returns/exchanges).

Or you could go thru Hitachi for a fix. They may refer you to the store you got it from if it's been 30 days or less. Either way, if your picture is out of focus on a new TV, it SHOULD be a warranty issue that must be fixed.

Thanks..

Thanks JWebb.

From what you're describing, I think my overscan is pretty much in line with what's the norm with this TV. I'm mainly convinced of this since this is my second set of this make and I tried the same games on them and the edges were in precisely the same spot.

As far as how much of the edge HUD is cut off, it really depends on the game. Some games allow for a bit of overscan - others don't . It's really noticable on a game like GTHD because Polophony decided to put their HUD very close to the edge of the screen. On Gears of War, it's completely fine since the HUD is designed to give a bit of room.

I may have to learn to live with it or hire a tech (which would be costly) - and it may be tough trying to find someone familiar with this set. I just don't understand why Hitachi sets the overscan as high as they do with these sets. I've been told that it's to allow for any descrepancies that you'd find with different inputs (DVD, Satellite, Consoles, etc). It just seems a little extreme to me (especially when I compare captured images or video of games that I own to what I'm actually seeing onscreen.

CloakedPuppet,

Yeah, basically all TV makers deal w/ overscan in the same way (certainly w/ CRT sets from what I've read). Done this way mainly due to the varying scan rates from one broadcast area to another. Done to avoid the appearence of video info beyond the actual image (weird lines on the edges of digital signals, for example)Of course, these overscan rates end up affecting things like game systems/DVD players and what not. Plus, the factory/OOB overscan on sets like these also help to avoid convergence/geometry errors that can occur if overscan was reduced too much. If reigned in too much, the extreme edges of DCAM grid lines can (and do) curve or fray slightly. That is a much worse PQ issue that a bit of image cutoff.

Again, the broadcast source is the main reason. I notice this myself w/ CSI in HD. I get that show via Comcast HD OnDemand. The CBS ID bug is a tad further from the right edge of the screen than when seeing the locally broadcast version.

Often, fixed pixel technologies have less overscan OOB than CRT based sets or are tweakable in service and/or user menus. But then, other types of TV have other issues (lag, SDE/SSE, DLP rainbows, etc-not to mention higher prices ;) ) that affect them. Every type of TV tech has it's positive/negative tradeoffs.

A slight overscan reduction might help w/ some of your occasional HUD cutoff--and not affect geometry negatively. Have you checked the 360 thread? (you are using the XBOX, yes?). There are apparently quite a few 360 owners there who also use and love their F59s. Maybe some tips there?

Good luck. Let us know if anything regarding this issue happens. Can always use new posts on the Tweaks thread.

Thanks for the response, JWebb. I think you're right - the best way to view it is as a bit of a trade off... a great picture at a really great price vs a great picture with a little less overscan (plasma or LCD) at a much greater (more expensive) price. It really is a great TV. :)

Nice job, jwebb1970! ;)

I concur, thank you. I have had my screen go bright green when using HDMI with my STB. I started using components figuring it was a faulty cable. I ordered a new cable and the same thing happened.

I Googled to see if it was my STB or the tv and found this thread and did the update last night and haven't had any glitches since. *knock on wood.

Note, I don't know if it was unplugging the set after making the changes or making the changes themselves but I lost all my pre-set video settings and had to go back and do them again.

Thanks!

I concur, thank you. I have had my screen go bright green when using HDMI with my STB. I started using components figuring it was a faulty cable. I ordered a new cable and the same thing happened.

I Googled to see if it was my STB or the tv and found this thread and did the update last night and haven't had any glitches since. *knock on wood.

Note, I don't know if it was unplugging the set after making the changes or making the changes themselves but I lost all my pre-set video settings and had to go back and do them again.

Thanks!

Lost your video setting due to unplugging the set. If it's unplugged for too long, this can happen. How long is "too long" could vary. Fortunately, that's not a big deal. I know when I did this to mine, I had to reset the clock and reactive the day/night timer, but video settings stayed intact. Unplugging, however, won't wipe out service menu changes.

I notice the geometry in the 117 point convergence screen has a non-square tiling near the top and bottom of the screen. Is this because:

a) the top and bottom areas need more attention and hence finer spatial grid for calibration (convergence adjustments)

OR

b) my display is actually warping the 1080i signal near the top and bottom.

I have noticed that sometimes objects appear to shorten as they near the top and bottom edge of the screen and tend to lengthen as they come into the vertical center of the screen.

Any idea how to fix this defect? Has anyone here fixed the defect under warranty?

The squished areas are non-trivial in size.

thanks in advance
Colin

I notice the geometry in the 117 point convergence screen has a non-square tiling near the top and bottom of the screen. Is this because:

a) the top and bottom areas need more attention and hence finer spatial grid for calibration (convergence adjustments)

OR

b) my display is actually warping the 1080i signal near the top and bottom.

I have noticed that sometimes objects appear to shorten as they near the top and bottom edge of the screen and tend to lengthen as they come into the vertical center of the screen.

Any idea how to fix this defect? Has anyone here fixed the defect under warranty?

The squished areas are non-trivial in size.

thanks in advance
Colin

As far as the "objects shortening/lengthening" issue, your geometry is off. Unless you have the eyesight (and patience) to DIY without one, you would need a screen jig (which can be found on this very thread) to re-align geometry in DCAM mode.

If wary of doing such things on your own, a Hitachi service tech could do the same. Is the set still under warranty? And has it always done this? Have you tweaked overscan at all? You might want to contact Hitachi directly first (phone or online). If this has been an issue since day one, they should fix it under warranty. It is a fixable "picture defect" of sorts.

is this tv HDCP compatible because is says or my cable box it says need to be HDCP
cablevision (http://cablevision.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/cablevision.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2136&p_created=1170365010&p_sid=2q4WdHti&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0 2JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1 hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWhkbWk *&p_li=&p_topview=1)






Thank you

is this tv HDCP compatible because is says or my cable box it says need to be HDCP
cablevision (http://cablevision.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/cablevision.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2136&p_created=1170365010&p_sid=2q4WdHti&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0 2JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1 hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWhkbWk *&p_li=&p_topview=1)






Thank you

Yes this TV is HDCP Compatible..

so i need i new hdmi wire thats hdcp compatible here is the hdmi wire i have
hdmi wire (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&pid=05760068000&cat=Televisions&subcat=TV+Accessories&vertical=ELEC&ihtoken=1)
but in a shorter version an 5 foot rca


Thank you

so i need i new hdmi wire thats hdcp compatible here is the hdmi wire i have
hdmi wire (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&pid=05760068000&cat=Televisions&subcat=TV+Accessories&vertical=ELEC&ihtoken=1)
but in a shorter version an 5 foot rca


Thank you


That HDMI Cable should be fine. If you are getting a message from you Cable Box about HDCP Compliance. Unplug your box for 1 minute. Before turning the box-on, connect the HDMI Cable from the Cable Box to the back of your TV & then turn your box on. Once it goes thru it's boot-up sequence, you should be good

Well I don't get the bright green colour anymore but still get the image shifting for a second or two here and there. I didn't see anything anywhere about this being rectified. Did anyone figure out what causes that and if there's a fix in the works?

I'm so overjoyed that at least I can use the HDMI and the picture quality when compared to components for SDTV is nothing short of spectacular with the VirtualHD.

OK, those service menu tweaks on the previous page are awesome! PQ is great. Only one thing remains: how to adjust grayscale. I know I would probably need some type of test equipment, but for starters, where in the service menu can you adjust the RGB values?

I'm looking for something as simple as the RGB settings on a computer monitor (wishful thinking?). Why haven't TV manufacturers picked up on that yet anyways? Makes perfect sense to include options to change RGB values.

Well I don't get the bright green colour anymore but still get the image shifting for a second or two here and there. I didn't see anything anywhere about this being rectified. Did anyone figure out what causes that and if there's a fix in the works?

I'm so overjoyed that at least I can use the HDMI and the picture quality over components for SDTV is nothing short of spectacular with the VirtualHD.

Image shift is not addressed by the HDMI fix and isn't exclusive to the F59s.

The DVD player thread mentions image shift as an issue w/ some Sony HDMI players, for example. Including my NS75H upconverting player. Mine does it very occasionally. Maybe once every 6-8 movies.

Just an occasional glitch associated with HDMI, from what I've gathered.

Thanks for the response Jwebb. I get my HDMI coming from my satellite HDPVR. I can live with it though as it seems like it only happens pretty infrequently and only for a second or two.

The other fix you posted still works like a champ and I'm very grateful for that.

Image shift is not addressed by the HDMI fix and isn't exclusive to the F59s.

The DVD player thread mentions image shift as an issue w/ some Sony HDMI players, for example. Including my NS75H upconverting player. Mine does it very occasionally. Maybe once every 6-8 movies.

Just an occasional glitch associated with HDMI, from what I've gathered.

Its been several days since I did the HDMI SM fix, and all the HDMI issues are gone, except for the image shift. In 4 days of watching (including a very long day Sunday), I've noticed the image shift twice (while watching through Comcast HD DVR) , which isn't ideal, but I certainly can live with it. The PQ is slightly improved with the HDMI cable vs. the component cables, so a rare pic shift is certainly a good trade off.

OK, those service menu tweaks on the previous page are awesome! PQ is great. Only one thing remains: how to adjust grayscale. I know I would probably need some type of test equipment, but for starters, where in the service menu can you adjust the RGB values?

I'm looking for something as simple as the RGB settings on a computer monitor (wishful thinking?). Why haven't TV manufacturers picked up on that yet anyways? Makes perfect sense to include options to change RGB values.

As soon as you enter the Service Menu, you'll see:

White Balance High
White Balance Med
White Balance STD

Depending on what mode you are using for your input, you can adjust the RDRV, GDRV, RCUT, BCUT, GCUT values. These are global adjustments, so they will apply to all inputs. There is no Blue DRV adjustment.

If it's a focus issue, it should be fixable. Focus can be adj mechanically at the lens. The F59s have a "wingnut" lever that is adjustable. If wary about doing this yourself, get a tech on it.

Hey JWebb just wanted to say Thanks for the awesome fix on the HDMI! Second, my focus is just slightly out. Can you please tell me how to adjust, where this wingnut is and what a good dvd to do it on is? Thanks for any help buddy.

Hey JWebb just wanted to say Thanks for the awesome fix on the HDMI! Second, my focus is just slightly out. Can you please tell me how to adjust, where this wingnut is and what a good dvd to do it on is? Thanks for any help buddy.


You're welcome!

Oh boy....focus...

Well, I AM NOT A TECH!!!! I just talk like one here sometimes :D .

All knowledge I have obtained on these sets was gleaned from others here @ the AVS Forum (Mr Bob, Lee Bailey and several others) as well as some learn-by-doing/trial and error tweaks to my last CRT RPTV (Hit 43UWX10B....R.I.P). So, don't take my word as gospel truth. I'd also ask/PM the guys I just mentioned (and maybe do a little thread searching, too).

With that said, the focus on your F59 is dealt with in 2 ways. "Electrostatic" focus and mechanical focus. The former is more of an overall focus adjustment done electronically via the "focus pak" inside the removable front service panel of the TV (behind the spkr grill) There is a small black box w/ 6 small pots on it. 3 are labelled "SCREEN". DO NOT TOUCH THESE!!!!! There are also 3 labelled "FOCUS"--one for each CRT gun (red/green/blue). These control the overall focus across the entire screen. An easy way to see what your focus is like is to bring up the 117pt convergence grid. You can move the focus pots to first de-focus each color's lines and then gently return them to as close as you can get to perfect.

Blue will ALWAYS appear a tad out of focus. This is intentional. A slightly defocus blue is needed for proper light output on CRT RPTVs. Green/Red should be as tight as possible.

Mechanical focus involves adjusting the focus of each gun at the lens assembly itself. On the F59s, each lens assy. has a focus adjustment rod that rotates the lens. It is held in place by a wingnut that must be loosened in order to adjust the rod. One on each lens assy., on the front (screen side) of the lens assys. I checked my mechanical focus against the same 117pt grid. But I only did this for red, which seemed a tad off on the left side of the screen. The red is still a very small amount "off", but less than before. And it actually is not noticable when just watching TV--only when looking at the convergence grid.

I have noticed that when moving the lens focus, the focus does not alter uniformally across the screen. Some parts become defocused more than/sooner/later than others.

Mr Bob has ways of correcting this and getting screen-wide focus about as tight as physically possible, and he generally does during all his calibrations. So he'd be better suited to go into further detail on this.


The F59 Service Manual has more detailed instructions on this procedure. I may recheck my set's focus after I get my set back from it's upcoming warranty service (replacing a blue gun with a slight manufacturing defect--nothing actually broken on the TV), if it looks like it needs it.

If opening up your TV and fiddling with things like focus is at all daunting to you, get a "real" tech on it. If a focus problem is causing you to have visible PQ issues, then it may fall under a Hitachi warranty service call. Way better off to have an authorized tech screw something up on your TV than you, as far as Hitachi would be concerned.

Update on the HDMI fix,

I have watched about 10 DVDs since the HDMI fix and all is good except the image shift. I don't know if it's coincidence or what but the image shift is happening at least once every 20mins now. I hooked up my old Pio DV46a and the image still shifts every 20 mins or so. Is anyone else seeing an increase in shifting since the HDMI fix?
I might have just not noticed it as much because compared to the green screen and set turning off, the shift problem seemed insignificant.

Update on the HDMI fix,

I have watched about 10 DVDs since the HDMI fix and all is good except the image shift. I don't know if it's coincidence or what but the image shift is happening at least once every 20mins now. I hooked up my old Pio DV46a and the image still shifts every 20 mins or so. Is anyone else seeing an increase in shifting since the HDMI fix?
I might have just not noticed it as much because compared to the green screen and set turning off, the shift problem seemed insignificant.

Probably the last thing you want to do, considering the previous HDMI problems you've had and the time it took to get addressed, but I'd consider contacting Hitachi again.

As I've stated here before, the image shift occurs so infrequently for me (both before and after applying the "fix") that I'm momentarily surprised if and/or when it does. Then again, I never had a screen freakout/power off occur with my HDMI DVD player prior to the "fix". Just did it to mine to make it current, software-wise.

As stated before, the shift happens (although I haven't actually counted) maybe once every 5-6 DVDs watched. And if it happens, it's only once per disc. And never at the "same time".

Gotta ask....is this happening with store-bought discs/rentals, copied DVDs or both?

Every 20 minutes makes me think there's an issue somewhere in your setup.

Come to think of it, since it's likely that the us complainers ;) here @ the AVS Forum may have had a major hand in getting Hitachi on this in the first place, maybe another group phone/email assault on their service dept regarding the HDMI image shift is in order. If it truly is something that can be fixed in the F59 software like the previous solution, then we all could be the proverbial bug in Hitachi's ear that gets their engineering dept. on the case.

The squeaky wheel will certainly get greased eventually.

Overscan adj is done via the horzontal/vertical size pots inside the front service access panel (behind the front spkr grill). Small white "philips head" pots.

Before doing this, however, read the following. Has to do w/ overscan vs. geometry. From a PM conversation I had w/ cavery aka Cory (who posted the convergence screen jigs on this thread). Sorry for the length---a lot has to do w/ using the screen jigs--but has info you should read first before tweaking your set's overscan.



It is possible that your set came from the factory with more overscan than the factory standard. But overscan adj can and likely will affect geometry. Geometry can be corrected w/o a screen jig---by eyeballing it and/or using an outside generated pattern (Mr Bob does it this way during calibrations).

I find that the factory standard overscan settings work for me fine. I used the overscan reset technique mentioned above after I had a jig printed. I'd had some geomtry issues after doing an overscan adj some time ago. Now my 51 is back to "factory specs" for overscan/geometry. In fact, I think my set may have had more overscan OOB than it does now. I might be losing 1/8 on an inch on the left and right sides at most. Most this cuts off for me is occasionally a small portion of a network ID bug--and even then it usually doesn't. ESPN bottom screen info, for example, is all visible.

I have the 57 and noticed part of some words being cut off on the bottom of the screen in one of my games, but these directions sound so difficult I may just have to get used to it. I've only noticed it in one game in 16:9 and always when using 4:3 expanded, but with that aspect there will be overscan no matter what, right? I've never opened this or any TV before. I thought I'd be able to adjust it through the settings. I don't know what pots or jigs are. I'm afraid I'd mess something up if I opened it. But I don't want to pay half the price of the TV for someone else to do it.

I know I've used my TV for well over 200 hours now and besides the overscan it's been perfect. My contrast is at 25% (from Lee Bailey's settings) and I haven't seen any burn in yet. I'm only using the TV for 480i/480p gaming with component cables and my VCR with composite. I don't have an antenna, cable, or satellite on it. I haven't attempted 117 pt. convergence since I'm supposed to adjust overscan first and the picture already looks great with 480i and 480p sources. Should I still attempt to do some tweaking?

does it matter that my brightness is on 60% and the contrast is on 60% too

does it matter that my brightness is on 60% and the contrast is on 60% too
yes it matters, you should turn down your contrast. anything over 50% will probably burn/age your crt guns faster and may cause burn in if you watch a lot of news with tickers ect.. on the screen. with your contrast that high how can your eyes handle it? maybe something is wrong with your tv if your contrast has to be that high. maybe ask around here with mr. bob, lee bailey ect.. to see if they have any thoughts on why you have your contrast so high. i know every tv is different from the next as far as brightness, contrast color ect.. if i'm not mistaken. know one tv is exactly like the other i guess what i'm trying to say. say like on my tv i have contrast during the day at 33 were someone else with the same hitachi 57f59 may have there's set at 38. hope that helps

Probably the last thing you want to do, considering the previous HDMI problems you've had and the time it took to get addressed, but I'd consider contacting Hitachi again.

As I've stated here before, the image shift occurs so infrequently for me (both before and after applying the "fix") that I'm momentarily surprised if and/or when it does. Then again, I never had a screen freakout/power off occur with my HDMI DVD player prior to the "fix". Just did it to mine to make it current, software-wise.

As stated before, the shift happens (although I haven't actually counted) maybe once every 5-6 DVDs watched. And if it happens, it's only once per disc. And never at the "same time".

Gotta ask....is this happening with store-bought discs/rentals, copied DVDs or both?

Every 20 minutes makes me think there's an issue somewhere in your setup.

Come to think of it, since it's likely that the us complainers ;) here @ the AVS Forum may have had a major hand in getting Hitachi on this in the first place, maybe another group phone/email assault on their service dept regarding the HDMI image shift is in order. If it truly is something that can be fixed in the F59 software like the previous solution, then we all could be the proverbial bug in Hitachi's ear that gets their engineering dept. on the case.

The squeaky wheel will certainly get greased eventually.


I did email Hitachi about the issue and they told me it was my DVD player, which is why I tried the Pio player (My Sony also did the same thing which is why I bought the Oppo).
So far, I have played all store bought DVDs with the exception of one rental. I am going to make a backup of one of my DVDs to see if it makes a difference. Also, I will reverse the HDMI fix just to see if it changes the frequency of the shifting.
I appreciate your input jwebb1970 and I will update everyone if anything comes to light.
Can I ask what DVD player are you using?

I haven't watched any DVD's since the "fix". I get a shift watching DirecTV about every 20 minutes or so as well. I have decided to live with it, given the improved PQ, but I also think we need to bombard Hitachi with calls and e-mails on this one.

I don't have a DVD player hooked up to my television yet but will probably buy one this weekend. I get the image shift through HDMI on my SAT HD-PVR but it's pretty infrequent. I've only got it once in the last few days since putting in the HDMI fix.

I'll email Hitachi about it today just to add some fuel to this issue on their end.

djphil20,

I use the Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player via HDMI.

so should i put my contrast down and the brightness up

so should i put my contrast down and the brightness up


Yes. Brightness is not the phosphor "torch" that Contrast is.

My Contrast lurks around the high 20's-low 30's on all inputs used. Brightness, depending on the input source/time of day can creep up into the lower 60's at most.

Lower Contrast also helps in achieveing overall improved PQ as well as staving off burn-in.

OK, another update and some interesting results:

I played backups of 4 of my DVDs, the same ones that I was having the shift issue with, and guess what? No shifting at all. I guess it must be HCDP related.
Next, I will reverse the HDMI fix and see what happens. It might be a couple of days as my wife is about ready to kick my butt for interrupting her spanish soaps for my "silly tests".
hasta la vista!

OK, another update and some interesting results:

I played backups of 4 of my DVDs, the same ones that I was having the shift issue with, and guess what? No shifting at all. I guess it must be HCDP related.
Next, I will reverse the HDMI fix and see what happens. It might be a couple of days as my wife is about ready to kick my butt for interrupting her spanish soaps for my "silly tests".
hasta la vista!

Yeah but I get the shift and don't even have a DVD player hooked up to this tv yet. It happens with my Satellite HD-PVR outputting HDMI to the television.

Yeah but I get the shift and don't even have a DVD player hooked up to this tv yet. It happens with my Satellite HD-PVR outputting HDMI to the television.

Isn't some form of HDCP encoded into broadcast HD signals, too? Would think it would be an issue if trying to run a digital video signal (i.e. via HDMI) into some sort of outboard recording device like a DVD recorder (not a DVR, however) to prevent the dreaded piracy of HD digital video.

Don't know, but I have assumed up 'til now that the image shift on DVD had something to do with this (not a Hitachi-specific problem).

Or it may just be the old "no industry standards for HDMI" problem. SInce I run my HD-DVR/cable box via component, I've never had a shift on that.

Just picked up a 51F59A from BB yesterday...a few concerns.

1) I can't find any of these settings:

Nevermind..I found those settings in the SM. :)


2) Half of my screen seems to be affected by a reddish tint, almost split right down the vertical middle of the screen. Is this something a service menu tweak can fix? I've already contacted our local Hitachi Auth repair center and they can fix it for free under warranty, but they aren't sure yet what's causing it. They suggested I push on the screen a bit to see if the lens' are separated, that didn't seem to help any.

Just picked up a 51F59A from BB yesterday...a few concerns.

1) I can't find any of these settings:

Nevermind..I found those settings in the SM. :)


2) Half of my screen seems to be affected by a reddish tint, almost split right down the vertical middle of the screen. Is this something a service menu tweak can fix? I've already contacted our local Hitachi Auth repair center and they can fix it for free under warranty, but they aren't sure yet what's causing it. They suggested I push on the screen a bit to see if the lens' are separated, that didn't seem to help any.
have you tried the magic focus button on the tv to see if that helps with the reddish tint? (make sure the tv has warmed up for at least 30 minutes first) if that doesn't help maybe then the tech will have to adjust your red crt gun.

Yes...it sounds as though it is a 'lens striping' fix. The left half of my screen is reddish...the right half is bluish...

Basically think of the left side using a 'Warm' color present, while the right side is using a 'Cool' color preset.

I'm assuming this will fall under warranty service. I can't imagine Hitachi wants their TVs having schizophrenia with their color temps.

Hey guys - I thought I'd post this under the tweaks thread since it's somewhat related. I'm wondering what resolution you all would recommend for gaming on this particular set. I have my 360 set at 1080i and my PS3 runs at both 720p and 1080i (depending on what the game supports). I have read quite a few posts that say that 720p is the better of the two for gaming but I'd take the views of the board members around here over those of some of the "knuckleheads" on gaming boards. :p Particularily since we're all talking about the same television.

Hey guys - I thought I'd post this under the tweaks thread since it's somewhat related. I'm wondering what resolution you all would recommend for gaming on this particular set. I have my 360 set at 1080i and my PS3 runs at both 720p and 1080i (depending on what the game supports). I have read quite a few posts that say that 720p is the better of the two for gaming but I'd take the views of the board members around here over those of some of the "knuckleheads" on gaming boards. :p Particularily since we're all talking about the same television.


Run 'em both @ 1080i. It's your TV's native resolution. Does the PS3 have a "global" resolution function? If so, set it @ 1080i. If it's game-dependent, than some PS3 stuff will obviously output 720p and then your set will have to convert it.

May be wrong, but I think the opinion of "720p is better for games" patially has to do with the abundance of 720p native dsplays out there. 720p is often considered "better" for fast-motion HD video (sports, games,etc), but if the PS3 can output 1080i all the time, set it that way.

Often sports in HD @ 1080i gets those who complain about "pixellation" and other picture artifacts. CBS's HD NFL coverage, for example, is often guilty of this. However, it seems that it looks better for some people than others, so an issue @ the broadcast source (OTA signal compression, satellite compression, etc) may play just as big a part as the resolution used.

Run 'em both @ 1080i. It's your TV's native resolution. Does the PS3 have a "global" resolution function? If so, set it @ 1080i. If it's game-dependent, than some PS3 stuff will obviously output 720p and then your set will have to convert it.

Thanks JWebb - that's what I've been doing up to this point. I've been reading recent stuff that claims that fast moving items (such as games) should run at 720p and that an interlaced signal was was not as ideal - so, I started to second guess my settings.

I watched five DVD's over the weekend. Only on the last one was there a shift and it was very subtle a couple of times near the end.

However, while watching DirecTV, I get it once every five minutes or so NORMALLY WHEN ON AN HD CHANNEL SHOWING A COMMERCIAL OR PROGRAM IN SD. The shifts are much more infrequent during HD programming but still there. Annoying though.

I sent an email to Hitachi support and they told me to call for a service rep. I called for a service rep and they said they've never heard of this problem and there may be something wrong with the HDMI inputs and to call for a local technician to come out and look at it all under warranty. I know that the service rep that comes out isn't going to be able to do anything as the shifting only happens once during an evening of tv so really what is he going to do? I'm disappointed in this problem that appears to affect a lot of people owning this television and Hitachi is apparently not even acknowledging a problem.

Update on my shifting issue:

Those who don't know, I was getting the shift issue every 20 mins or so on 4 retail DVDs, but not on 4 backups of the same DVDs. This seemed to happen after I did the HDMI fix.
Well, it turns out that it was just those 4 DVDs (Star Trek movies 6-9).
Over the weekend, I watched 4 netflix and 1 retail DVD and the shifting only happened once. So I guess maybe some DVDs are not mastered correctly or the HDCP is not implemented right which causes the shifting.
I never did reverse the HDMI fix to see if that made a difference, but I did re-watch Star trek VI and I got the shifting every 20 mins.
I sent an email to Hitachi with all the details this morning, maybe they can shed some light on the situation.

Still think that the HDMI shifting may have more to do w/ just HDMI itself than the F59s. Other TVs have, according to their owners, had HDMI image shift as well.

With no real industry standards in place for HDMI (at least that's what I read anyway), it just seems more likely that it's some sort of digital issue. Perhaps having to do with digital copy protection? In the case of DVD, that would seem logical, considering djphil20's experience with certain Star Trek discs (may have issues getting along with HDMI due to copy protect/lack of---depending on when they were manufactured). Since a digital out would be the preferred source of choice for a video pirate (although in the real world wouldn't you just copy a DVD on a computer?), it makes sense to me that the digital out would be the source of any copy-protect related bugs. Without any real standards in place, a DVD player/HD set-top box could conceivably not get along with virtually any digital input out there--not just a Htachi's

That being said, I still suggest that everyone with the problem continue to hassle Hitachi about it. It might be something a software fix could address. I remember a time not that long ago when a call to Hitachi Service regarding the bigger HDMI problem often got a confused response from the company ("We've never heard of a problem with the F59's HDMI...")

I think the flood of calls/emails they got from us here @ the AVS Forum was very instrumental in that fix. Lightning could very well strike twice with this one.

Yes. Brightness is not the phosphor "torch" that Contrast is.

My Contrast lurks around the high 20's-low 30's on all inputs used. Brightness, depending on the input source/time of day can creep up into the lower 60's at most.

Lower Contrast also helps in achieveing overall improved PQ as well as staving off burn-in.

Just want to ad my additional comments to Jwebb's: My Contrast is set to 23 and my brightness is 61. For my set, it's the optimal settings. The point just above where black crush will occur on 99% of material (with the rare 1 perent being too bright.)

I say try and get contrast as low as you can stand. The two benefits of lower the contrast are: reduced electricity consumption (Saves money and reduces heat the tv expels into the room) AND it helps in silk screen effect. The lower the contrast level, the less SSE will reveal its ugly head (assuming you can perceive it.) I was initially bothered by SSE and was pushing the contrast all over the place... until I realized upping the contrast ratio only magnifies the problem.

Just want to ad my additional comments to Jwebb's: My Contrast is set to 23 and my brightness is 61. For my set, it's the optimal settings. The point just above where black crush will occur on 99% of material (with the rare 1 perent being too bright.)

I say try and get contrast as low as you can stand. The two benefits of lower the contrast are: reduced electricity consumption (Saves money and reduces heat the tv expels into the room) AND it helps in silk screen effect. The lower the contrast level, the less SSE will reveal its ugly head (assuming you can perceive it.) I was initially bothered by SSE and was pushing the contrast all over the place... until I realized upping the contrast ratio only magnifies the problem.


Yes, definitely.

Keeping contrast safely low also keeps your grayscale linear, your convergence tight, and your focus from blooming.

Besides the more obvious perks of extending CRT life and lowering the chances of screenburn.

:)

Mr Bob

Hi All:

I ordered a 51F710 refurb which will arrive on Saturday. Has anyone experimented with the tweaks for the new F series on the slightly older sets (mostly calibration)?

[QUOTE=jwebb1970]Still think that the HDMI shifting may have more to do w/ just HDMI itself than the F59s. Other TVs have, according to their owners, had HDMI image shift as well.

I have seen probably thousands of other TV's in stores hooked up to HDMI and have NEVER witnessed this problem in person.

[QUOTE=jwebb1970]Still think that the HDMI shifting may have more to do w/ just HDMI itself than the F59s. Other TVs have, according to their owners, had HDMI image shift as well.

I have seen probably thousands of other TV's in stores hooked up to HDMI and have NEVER witnessed this problem in person.


As far as the image shift issue, I've seen this mentioned on the DVD player threads for both the Sony NS75H (and it's predecessor) as well as a very occassional mention from some Oppo, LG and (I believe) Samsung users.

None of them using an F59 as their display.

In fact, came across a post today from an owner of an Oppo 971H and a Sony KDFE42A10 that posted pictures of that combo's pink/green HDMI-related screens. Just like the ones F59 users were experiencing via HDMI prior to it getting dealt with.

If you want to see what various kinds of HDMI weirdness that owners of virtually every brand of HDTV can and do occasionally experience, cruise over to the recently created HDMI Q&A board.

HDMI wackyness is not exclusive to Hitachi HDTVs. HDMI technology is obviously still full of bugs of some sort or another. Most likely can all be traced to HDCP.

See, it's the anti-piracy crowd's fault! ;)

Thanks for the HDMI tip fix. Haven't been around in the RPTV forum for a month so this is great news. Makes buying the Hitachi 56" for $900 a big no brainer. If you want dark scenes which there are allot of to look deep with no haze this is it. I dumped a Toshiba hx93 for a JVC DLIA and I view allot of 24 episodes. After a while I couldn't take it anymore and went back to a CRT RPTV.
Like I said now it's a no brainer. Enjoy your TV's what a deal.

Thx again for the info.

I'm really surprised that Hitachi should be having ANY HDMI issues, if you look here:
HDMI.ORG (http://www.hdmi.org/)

You'll see that Hitachi is one of the FOUNDERS of the HDMI Organization.

Guess you need to practice what you preach!

Hi everyone this is my first post, ive been reading the 57F59A post for about a month now and first off would like to thank everyone for all the extremely helpful info.

Ok i have a few questions and any help would awesome. Ive had the tv for about a month, did service menu tweaks, Xbox 360 games look amazing, but DvDs look a little blurry, and SD tv over my cable looks a little more blurry, is this because its sd tv on a 57 in? Just want to know if standard def. is just blurry cause of the low res on such a big screen, i have the cable box set to 1080i and HD looks good(this is my first HDTV and Big Screen). Should i call a tech?

Also i changed All of the white Bal settings( the high, Med, and STD) Someone told me to put them back but ive lost the original setting, could some one PLZ help, if you have good settings for this or the original setting.

Once again THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THE Wealth of info on here!!!!!

Hi everyone this is my first post, ive been reading the 57F59A post for about a month now and first off would like to thank everyone for all the extremely helpful info.

Ok i have a few questions and any help would awesome. Ive had the tv for about a month, did service menu tweaks, Xbox 360 games look amazing, but DvDs look a little blurry, and SD tv over my cable looks a little more blurry, is this because its sd tv on a 57 in? Just want to know if standard def. is just blurry cause of the low res on such a big screen, i have the cable box set to 1080i and HD looks good(this is my first HDTV and Big Screen). Should i call a tech?

Also i changed All of the white Bal settings( the high, Med, and STD) Someone told me to put them back but ive lost the original setting, could some one PLZ help, if you have good settings for this or the original setting.

Once again THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THE Wealth of info on here!!!!!

Nate, I just answered this question over in the main 57F59 thread. Please don't double post.

Thanks for the HDMI tip fix. Haven't been around in the RPTV forum for a month so this is great news. Makes buying the Hitachi 56" for $900 a big no brainer. If you want dark scenes which there are allot of to look deep with no haze this is it. I dumped a Toshiba hx93 for a JVC DLIA and I view allot of 24 episodes. After a while I couldn't take it anymore and went back to a CRT RPTV.
Like I said now it's a no brainer. Enjoy your TV's what a deal.

Thx again for the info.


You DUMPED a Tosh hx93??? Guess I think that was kinda the opposite of a no-brainer, possibly more like "brainless"...? Or maybe, "brain dead"...?

Sorry, but I am seeing so many perfectly good CRT RPTVs going down right now, it rips my heart out every time I think about it...

:eek:

Optics cleaning woulda restored your crystal clear blacks. As is true with ALL CRT RPTVs that are currently hitting the dump sites, in perfect working order!

:mad:


Mr Bob

Hi all -

I am new to the thread. I bought a 65F59 a few months ago at CC and am looking at fine tuning. Initially - I have two questions:

1. I could not get to the service menu using the "menu - menu--8--select" sequence. I was able to get to a service menu by clicking on the pause button on the remote while in TV mode. Once in service mode - all the menu choices as described in this forum are present. I have one issue - I can't save any settings changes that I make. I make the changes, exit the menu, and upon returning the original settings are back.

How do you save settings changes?

2. Somehow, while trying to get the "menu-menu-8-select" sequence to work, I somehow nuked by cable box settings. My cable box (a motorola with charter) worked great with the remote previously, but now my remote won't hook up with this box at all. I have tried multiple codes, ect but nothing works.

Has anyone else seen this? Any thoughts on getting my remote and cable box working again?

Thanks!

Ben

Hi all -

I am new to the thread. I bought a 65F59 a few months ago at CC and am looking at fine tuning. Initially - I have two questions:

1. I could not get to the service menu using the "menu - menu--8--select" sequence. I was able to get to a service menu by clicking on the pause button on the remote while in TV mode. Once in service mode - all the menu choices as described in this forum are present. I have one issue - I can't save any settings changes that I make. I make the changes, exit the menu, and upon returning the original settings are back.

How do you save settings changes?

2. Somehow, while trying to get the "menu-menu-8-select" sequence to work, I somehow nuked by cable box settings. My cable box (a motorola with charter) worked great with the remote previously, but now my remote won't hook up with this box at all. I have tried multiple codes, ect but nothing works.

Has anyone else seen this? Any thoughts on getting my remote and cable box working again?

Thanks!

Ben

Item 1. I take it that you held down the MENU button down ON THE TV, then entered MENU-8-SELECT on the remote?
You need to press the SELECT button when you change an item in the service menu for it to be saved.

Item 2. I've not seen this problem, mainly due to the fact I use an URC MX-700 remote instead. You may have to contact Hitachi to see if there is some way to RESET your remote.

Thanks Lee. Select is saving my settings now. I was arrowing down earlier.

You guys have done a fantastic job in capturing this info.

Thanks a bunch

Ben

Sorry Lee wont do it again just thought some people look in here that might not look in the other one, I wont do it again, P.S. thank you Lee and Mr. Bob for your help.

Sorry Lee wont do it again just thought some people look in here that might not look in the other one, I wont do it again, P.S. thank you Lee and Mr. Bob for your help.

No need to apoligize Nate. You're quite welcome, glad to be of assistance.

Just finished a mechanical focus and it was very easy and very worthwhile. However, one piece of information would have saved me from dismantling the entire unit (though, I must admit, it was interesting). To get to the wingnuts and lens assembly, all you have to do is remove the two trim panels and the panel of buttons below the screen. Instructions for adjusting the focus are elsewhere in this thread, in other threads, and in the service manual.
Thanks to everyone here for the encouragement to tackle that and all the other tweaks that make the end result AWESOME.

is there any other tweaks that are simple to do that you know of except for the service menu tweaks
APRTR-3 (APRTR-NTSC): 00
APRTR-G (APRTR-SDTV): 00
APRTR-I (APRTR-HDTV): 00
COLORG: 00 or 01
SRTGA: 00
STATG1: 06
STATG2: 00

Just finished a mechanical focus and it was very easy and very worthwhile. However, one piece of information would have saved me from dismantling the entire unit (though, I must admit, it was interesting). To get to the wingnuts and lens assembly, all you have to do is remove the two trim panels and the panel of buttons below the screen. Instructions for adjusting the focus are elsewhere in this thread, in other threads, and in the service manual.
Thanks to everyone here for the encouragement to tackle that and all the other tweaks that make the end result AWESOME.

Any chance you can give us a write up on the procedure?

-Funk

Any chance you can give us a write up on the procedure?

-Funk

For the adjustment procedure, see jwebb1970 post #91, above.
For the trim panels, just pull off the panel on the bottom (I'd LEAVE mine off, but m'lady objects), grab a phillips head screwdriver and take out less than 10 screws.

Said it was simple. :)

Michael

This was originally in another forum, posted by jim5054, but it saved me so much grief that I thought it should get more attention:
"For the 117pt you can use the channel down key to move from point to point in a circular pattern from center out. Saves some time. Channel up will reverse it."
Actually, it works in other modes, too. Very nice! :D
Thanks, Jim.

Michael

This was originally in another forum, posted by jim5054, but it saved me so much grief that I thought it should get more attention:
"For the 117pt you can use the channel down key to move from point to point in a circular pattern from center out. Saves some time. Channel up will reverse it."
Actually, it works in other modes, too. Very nice! :D
Thanks, Jim.

Michael


Great tip!

The method of working from the inside to the outside, prioritizing the inside OVER the outside, is what I use as soon as the rough conv work has been done and nothing but trim is left.

Until that time, the points in MOST need of work should always be prioritized over anything else.

When you have done an overscan reduction, there will be lots of places on the screen where the colors are WAY off. These should be gotten a lot closer before going from the inside to the outside.

On Pioneers, the entire left side of vertical lines is a very linear stairstep of level of being affected, starting at the leftmost line and going to the right, each line getting affected less and less as you go to the right.

They are the only brand that does that. But it's more useful to observe that and work with it than to prioritize the inside to the outside, in that case.

Just an exception I thought I'd mention. Doesn't apply here...


Mr Bob

You DUMPED a Tosh hx93??? Guess I think that was kinda the opposite of a no-brainer, possibly more like "brainless"...? Or maybe, "brain dead"...?

Sorry, but I am seeing so many perfectly good CRT RPTVs going down right now, it rips my heart out every time I think about it...

:eek:

Optics cleaning woulda restored your crystal clear blacks. As is true with ALL CRT RPTVs that are currently hitting the dump sites, in perfect working order!

:mad:


Mr Bob

Yes I know now :) I got all caught up in the high brightness and how HDTV would look on the JVC, it did look good. But late at night I cruze by the fireplace viewing many dark scenes in movies and the 24 series. Well you know most great film will have many dark scenes. After 6months of hazy black detail I dumped the JVC and jumped on the Hitachi bandwagon. The Toshiba was a very nice detailed set but you can't take off the glare screen. The Hitachi beats it in contrast and white level, the style of picture competes well with the digital RPTV's. I'm pretty happy with it. I did tune it to D65k with the Gregtag Spectrometer, it did a nice job with the hues, facel tones and movies like Rome look awesome.

This was originally in another forum,
Actually, it works in other modes, too. Very nice! :D
Thanks, Jim.

Michael
LastButNotLeast. You're welcome, glad it helped. I'm considering attempting mechanical focus and its good to know you can get at it from the front
Jim

When you take Cavery's Convergence Jig PDF file to the Kinko's shop, do you just tell them to print it up at 100% size (100% in the Acrobat Reader) on Vellum paper? Do you have them trim/cut the edges so it fits the service manual's screen jig dimensions (for 51F59) of 1129mm side to side length and 635mm top to bottom?

I'm going to get one made because my 51F59's geometry needs attention...

Another quick one: I read in an archived thread it mentioned that to get convergence to stick on Hitachis you often need to write it (DCAM) to ROM about five times one after another? Why is this? I thought flash EEPROM either writes data or it doesn't?

You're welcome!

Oh boy....focus...

Well, I AM NOT A TECH!!!! I just talk like one here sometimes :D .

All knowledge I have obtained on these sets was gleaned from others here @ the AVS Forum (Mr Bob, Lee Bailey and several others) as well as some learn-by-doing/trial and error tweaks to my last CRT RPTV (Hit 43UWX10B....R.I.P). So, don't take my word as gospel truth. I'd also ask/PM the guys I just mentioned (and maybe do a little thread searching, too).

With that said, the focus on your F59 is dealt with in 2 ways. "Electrostatic" focus and mechanical focus. The former is more of an overall focus adjustment done electronically via the "focus pak" inside the removable front service panel of the TV (behind the spkr grill) There is a small black box w/ 6 small pots on it. 3 are labelled "SCREEN". DO NOT TOUCH THESE!!!!! There are also 3 labelled "FOCUS"--one for each CRT gun (red/green/blue). These control the overall focus across the entire screen. An easy way to see what your focus is like is to bring up the 117pt convergence grid. You can move the focus pots to first de-focus each color's lines and then gently return them to as close as you can get to perfect.

Blue will ALWAYS appear a tad out of focus. This is intentional. A slightly defocus blue is needed for proper light output on CRT RPTVs. Green/Red should be as tight as possible.

Mechanical focus involves adjusting the focus of each gun at the lens assembly itself. On the F59s, each lens assy. has a focus adjustment rod that rotates the lens. It is held in place by a wingnut that must be loosened in order to adjust the rod. One on each lens assy., on the front (screen side) of the lens assys. I checked my mechanical focus against the same 117pt grid. But I only did this for red, which seemed a tad off on the left side of the screen. The red is still a very small amount "off", but less than before. And it actually is not noticable when just watching TV--only when looking at the convergence grid.

I have noticed that when moving the lens focus, the focus does not alter uniformally across the screen. Some parts become defocused more than/sooner/later than others.

Mr Bob has ways of correcting this and getting screen-wide focus about as tight as physically possible, and he generally does during all his calibrations. So he'd be better suited to go into further detail on this.


The F59 Service Manual has more detailed instructions on this procedure. I may recheck my set's focus after I get my set back from it's upcoming warranty service (replacing a blue gun with a slight manufacturing defect--nothing actually broken on the TV), if it looks like it needs it.

If opening up your TV and fiddling with things like focus is at all daunting to you, get a "real" tech on it. If a focus problem is causing you to have visible PQ issues, then it may fall under a Hitachi warranty service call. Way better off to have an authorized tech screw something up on your TV than you, as far as Hitachi would be concerned.


Jweebb, thanks for the instructions. I want to attempt a mechanical focus and I have a few questions. You mentioned a lens assy. What is that? Also, where can I access the lens wingnut? Is it through the service panel in fron of the TV are do I need to get to it by some other means?

New here...

I just recently purchased this TV and must say I am absolutely happy about my purchase. after adjusting several things the picture quality is amazing...

My question is this though... when I use my HDMI cable what ever is hooked up to that input seems to have the edges blurred... nothing else does... not the component or A/V -S Cable. Is this something that can be solved with the HDMI Fix I read earlier in this thread? Or do I need to take other measures?

For the adjustment procedure, see jwebb1970 post #91, above.
For the trim panels, just pull off the panel on the bottom (I'd LEAVE mine off, but m'lady objects), grab a phillips head screwdriver and take out less than 10 screws.

Said it was simple. :)

Michael

So you can do this as a one man job? I'm such a perfectionist, I didn't wanna trust anyone else's eyes telling me when the convergence was tight. If I could adjust AND see at the same time, I'd be all over this.

P.S. To the person with the UP/DOWN moves in a circular motion... doh! Great tip. I can't believe how much easier this would make the DCAM adjusting.

I still am getting a good deal of shifting, but now also the screen will freak out on me from time to time - especially when I change channels from HD to SD. It doesn't right itself, but turning the set off and on does. I am sticking with the HDMI this time, though. The reason is that once I am watching a program the only issue seems to be an occasional shift during commercials on HD channels when the screen goes to 4:3. I can live with it.

Another quick one: I read in an archived thread it mentioned that to get convergence to stick on Hitachis you often need to write it (DCAM) to ROM about five times one after another? Why is this? I thought flash EEPROM either writes data or it doesn't?


If what you read was mine, I said that it takes around 5 full passes of corrections for Hit's to finally grab and keep all the corrections accurately. That their eeproms just don't memorize it all on the first pass, like other brands do.

I never said to do it 5 times, one after the other. The very next version, after having memorized the first time, is so bad, I can't imagine that just doing it 5 times in a row would improve it.

But I could be wrong - please correct me if I am!


Mr Bob

Jweebb, thanks for the instructions. I want to attempt a mechanical focus and I have a few questions. You mentioned a lens assy. What is that? Also, where can I access the lens wingnut? Is it through the service panel in fron of the TV are do I need to get to it by some other means?


To get to the lens assy you have to remove the viewscreen. You'll see the wingnut on the lens barrel.



The 117 pt conv grid is too thick and bright - too "hot" - to do a good e focus on. You need to do it on a mid-light-level grid, like one sent in from AVIA, at 50IRE. You can easily separate the r g and b from each other using JUST the center point, on manual convergence.


Blue no longer needs to be defocused anymore, electrostatically. The newer blue guns are much stronger than the older ones, so defocuing the blue is not an issue and hasn't been for several years.

But keep in mind that changing the e focus on your blue changes the white balance on your grayscale. If it's anywhere close to where it should be, I would leave it alone unless you definitely want to reduce the blues in your whites, which tightening it up would do.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr. bob. How do I remove the viewscreen?

Thanks Mr. bob. How do I remove the viewscreen?


I'll let owners handle this one.

;)

Mr Bob

Nah, it was someone mentioning that you mentioned something about it, nothing specific. No worries :)

If what you read was mine, I said that it takes around 5 full passes of corrections for Hit's to finally grab and keep all the corrections accurately. That their eeproms just don't memorize it all on the first pass, like other brands do.

I never said to do it 5 times, one after the other. The very next version, after having memorized the first time, is so bad, I can't imagine that just doing it 5 times in a row would improve it.

But I could be wrong - please correct me if I am!


Mr Bob

Regarding my quest to try to get Cavery's 51F59 convergence jig overlay PDF file printed up where I live:

Well, as luck would have it the FEDEX/Kinko's shop here is not able to print on Vellum or mylar -- they said all they can do is print on white (non-translucent) paper. Bah.

Called a local independent print/graphics shop who said they could do it, but they wanted a $35 setup fee plus $8.50/sq ft AND I would have to buy a complete roll of Vellum or mylar since they don't stock it. Double Bah!

I may have an inside hook at another outfit, depends if my inside hookster has access to the necessary equipment...

Well I was having the same issue as a couple people, I originally posted in the "Official Hitachi 51f59 Problems/Issues thread (non-calibration)" post #61.

Since I just bought my set, I feel more comfortable having a service tech comeout and do the adjusting. I figure it won't cost me anything, and this way I won't have to worry about a possible conflict with voiding my warranty. Should something else come up.

Having the (most helpful) information that jwebb1970 and Lee Bailey posted (as well as others) helped me when calling Hitachi. At first they tried to tell me that component cables would do just fine, that may be, I have invest money to take advantage of the broadband HDMI, I want to take advanatage of the maximum abilities of the set and get this fixed.

thanks to you all.

Regarding my quest to try to get Cavery's 51F59 convergence jig overlay PDF file printed up where I live:

Well, as luck would have it the FEDEX/Kinko's shop here is not able to print on Vellum or mylar -- they said all they can do is print on white (non-translucent) paper. Bah.

Called a local independent print/graphics shop who said they could do it, but they wanted a $35 setup fee plus $8.50/sq ft AND I would have to buy a complete roll of Vellum or mylar since they don't stock it. Double Bah!

I may have an inside hook at another outfit, depends if my inside hookster has access to the necessary equipment...


Just don't see what people find in vellum overlays/templates. I hate 'em! Don't think they are in any way necessary for achieving correct geometry, and are inherently, by nature, completely useless for convergence.


Mr Bob

Just don't see what people find in vellum overlays/templates. I hate 'em! Don't think they are in any way necessary for achieving correct geometry, and are inherently, by nature, completely useless for convergence.


Mr Bob

Huh? How else can I get reference color green dialed in correctly, without an overlay to guide me? Or are you just saying mylar is the way to go and not vellum, but an overlay is still recommended when attempting to correctly set green (geometry)?

Huh? How else can I get reference color green dialed in correctly, without an overlay to guide me? Or are you just saying mylar is the way to go and not vellum, but an overlay is still recommended when attempting to correctly set green (geometry)?

Obviously Mr. Bob's going to answer you, buy my money's on a ruler and string.

Huh? How else can I get reference color green dialed in correctly, without an overlay to guide me? Or are you just saying mylar is the way to go and not vellum, but an overlay is still recommended when attempting to correctly set green (geometry)?


If you want to use string and ruler... check this out:
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=1438722&fullpage=1

I am so down right now.

Yesterday the service menu function "MEMORY INITIALIZE" was executed on my 51F59, long story but it happened. My once mighty picture now looks terrible, red is over driven very bad, whole picture looks about like what you would see on a worn out 1974 Zenith 25" console cabinet set if it were still running today.

Virtually every data value in all service menu settings have been nuked back to their unadjusted default values, i.e. a pre-tuned (the tune done before shipment by factory) state.

Because of the vast amount of data values held in the entire service menu, I am willing to pay someone who is willing to go through their service menu submenu items and write down each value stored in your service menu THAT DIFFERS from the default value item in the table. I will send via postal mail a table from the 51F59 Service Manual that has all the service menu items in table format. The tables are simply printouts from pages 64 - 82 in the PDF version of the service manual. Its a lot of data values to look at, hence the payment offer.






If interested, send me a private message (to avoid adding replys to this topic).

Hello,

If anyone can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. We just bought a Hitachi 51F59 CRT Tv. Can anyone tell me if there are bulbs or lamps I need to worry about. I know it has the cathode ray tube, but I'm lost on the rest. Thank you!

Hello,

If anyone can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. We just bought a Hitachi 51F59 CRT Tv. Can anyone tell me if there are bulbs or lamps I need to worry about. I know it has the cathode ray tube, but I'm lost on the rest. Thank you!

No lamps/bulbs to worry about on a CRT RPTV. Just 3 CRT projectors (red/green/blue) that won't "burn out" like a dlp/lcd RPTV bulb.

Do check out the early pages of this thread (heck, the whole tweaks thread, actually) for settings advice/suggestions to get the best out of your new 51F59.

Enjoy. And feel free to ask here or on the "main" 57F59A thread if you have any questions/concerns. We tend to be a pretty helpful bunch.

Thank you so much for the speedy response! I will be sure to check out the rest of this thread as well as the other one you mentioned.

I'm not sure if this is a 'tweak' or not, but I was looking to do my own calibration on the 51F59 using the Eye-One Display LT and either CalMAN or HCFR. It will provide a good learning experience, plus I have plenty of time to get it dialed in. My time is worth way more than my money and I've found calibrations to be very expensive. I on the other hand, find myself sitting around the home often enough with nothing to do - I might as well use that time to learn something fun and useful.

That being said, I did have a few questions. I can easily set grayscale using the Standard, Medium and High settings in the service menu, however after reviewing the service manual, I've noticed sections labeled:

TA1360
FC4

The FC4 submenu has entries for Hue Slope, Width, Center and Clip for the colors of Magenta, Red, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Blue.

What are these values for? Do they affect a certain input only? I recognize those colors as being the primaries and secondaries for the (I think it's called this) CIE color space, but I'm unsure what adjusting those values would actually do.

Likewise, the TA1360 menu has values relating to 'G-Y/B-Y Gain' as well as 'R-Y/B-Y Gain' and a few others.

Furthermore, what color gamut (Rec 601 or 709...I might be using the wrong term here) does this TV use? It upconverts *everything* into 1080i, so would it be using the HDTV (709) one?

"Virtually every data value in all service menu settings have been nuked back to their unadjusted default values, i.e. a pre-tuned (the tune done before shipment by factory) state."

If we can cure coolant cooties, we can do anything!
It just so happens I checked my values when I got my service manual (and WROTE THEM DOWN - lesson learned?!). There aren't that many that are different. I think some overlap with Lee's, posted elsewhere. Try them, you have little to lose:
G DRV HIGH 2F
R DRV HIGH 17
R CUT HIGH 8B
G CUT HIGH 7F
B CUT HIGH 97

SUB-BRT 72 (manual = 7F)

and two more near the end that made a big difference:
S-GAIN-SW 01 (manual = 00)
M-GAIN-SW 00 (manual = 01)

As always, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your activities. Good luck.
Michael

"There aren't that many that are different."

Oh Thank God. I truly hope this is the case. JWebb1970 is helping me as well as
Zaphod7501. Lastnight I did try adjusting the red and green drive for std color temp white balance and got it a little better, what I did was turn COLOR down to zero in the user video menu to get B/W picture, then did a freeze frame on a scene, adjusted color drive settings for STD until the white balance looked truer for B/W (removed a lot of the tan/reddish tinge), and upon turning user color back up that did help but it is far from being that good yet.

It looks like the color drive settings and cut off settings are separate for each color temp, i./e. HIGH, MED, and STD, as they each relate to white balance (separate white balance adjustments for HIGH, MED, STD that show on first page of the svc menu each contain Red, Green color drive, Red, Green Cut Off and Blue Cut Off adjustments... but no Blue Drive on any of the three white balance settings of HIGH, MED, STD). There is a Blue Stretch value way down in TA1360 that adds a ton of blue saturation to the picture but its too much and too harsh.


"Virtually every data value in all service menu settings have been nuked back to their unadjusted default values, i.e. a pre-tuned (the tune done before shipment by factory) state."

If we can cure coolant cooties, we can do anything!
It just so happens I checked my values when I got my service manual (and WROTE THEM DOWN - lesson learned?!). There aren't that many that are different. I think some overlap with Lee's, posted elsewhere. Try them, you have little to lose:
G DRV HIGH 2F
R DRV HIGH 17
R CUT HIGH 8B
G CUT HIGH 7F
B CUT HIGH 97

SUB-BRT 72 (manual = 7F)

and two more near the end that made a big difference:
S-GAIN-SW 01 (manual = 00)
M-GAIN-SW 00 (manual = 01)

As always, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your activities. Good luck.
Michael

Hi, new owner here just getting my set set up. What a great helpful thread!

I have some questions on the DIY guide posted earlier. There is a suggestion for setting statg1 to 06. What does this do?

And what are people's typical default settings for this? I set mine to 06 but forgot to write down my default (oops!)

Made the colorg change to 01 from 00 and that helped with the reds as expected. I changed statg2 from 03 to 00 but I'm not sure what effect that had.

The setting srtga on mine was 10 at default. Changing it to 00 seemed to makes this worse not better so I changed it back. What does this do?

Thanks for your help

Mark

Hi, new owner here just getting my set set up. What a great helpful thread!

I have some questions on the DIY guide posted earlier. There is a suggestion for setting statg1 to 06. What does this do?

And what are people's typical default settings for this? I set mine to 06 but forgot to write down my default (oops!)

Made the colorg change to 01 from 00 and that helped with the reds as expected. I changed statg2 from 03 to 00 but I'm not sure what effect that had.

The setting srtga on mine was 10 at default. Changing it to 00 seemed to makes this worse not better so I changed it back. What does this do?

Thanks for your help

Mark

As I often say here....the worthiness of settings is in the eye of the beholder.

I have my various service menu tweaks set as they are in the DIY guide and my 51F59A looks sweet.

statg1 (static Y gamma black gain)/statg2 (static Y gamma bright gain)--basically effect contrast levels. Someone else could chime in with a better description

srtga (super real transient gain)--effects shapness and detail. Most lower it because the default setting can add unwanted edge enhancement. But then some people like the user menu edge enhancement on, so go figure.

Really, the one universal sm tweak that esentially everyone seems to agree on is the "colorg" adj to tame the red push.

I say try the suggested tweaks and see for yourself. If you think you preferred it the old way (or somewhere in between in some cases), stick with that. Just remember to make note of the original settings before changing them!

And keep in mind that if your F59 is brand-new, you may notice a difference in PQ (a good one, that is) after the 100 hr "settling in" time. (hate to say "burn-in"---makes CRT owners worry unneccessarily ;) ) Some of those sm tweaks may look better to you after that---who knows.

Just let your eyes be the final judge. Every TV---including 2 of the same make/model--can and do differ. One person's optimal settings may not work for another.

MDELLING: That's the one AVS tweak that I ignored. I toyed with multiple different settings, and think 10 is definitely the best setting.

And I've got all enhancements turned off and the sharpness set at 30. So it's not like I like my image artificially enhanced. That setting, IMO, just blurred the image to an unnatural degree.

Hey guys I got something to throw at you, is changing M-gain sw, from 00 to 01, it that pretty much like adding more contrast or is it something else. Also is this something i should not do( I think i looks a little better). Also could you guys give me any service menu tweaks you have done so i can give them a try, I know I cant just throw other ppls setting on my tv, just wanted an idea of what ppl are messing with to improve PQ, Lee your thoughts here would be great!

MDELLING: That's the one AVS tweak that I ignored. I toyed with multiple different settings, and think 10 is definitely the best setting.

And I've got all enhancements turned off and the sharpness set at 30. So it's not like I like my image artificially enhanced. That setting, IMO, just blurred the image to an unnatural degree.


I have high hopes for this. I had posted in the other thread about some softness that was fixed when I turned on Edge Enhancement. It was like putting on a pair of glasses. But it introduces other bad problems. Right now I have to set Sharpness at about 65. When I get home I'm going to change SRTGA back to 10, or at least above 0. Then I can turn off EH and hopefully be done with tweaks.

I'm not sure if this is a 'tweak' or not, but I was looking to do my own calibration on the 51F59 using the Eye-One Display LT and either CalMAN or HCFR. It will provide a good learning experience, plus I have plenty of time to get it dialed in. My time is worth way more than my money and I've found calibrations to be very expensive. I on the other hand, find myself sitting around the home often enough with nothing to do - I might as well use that time to learn something fun and useful.

That being said, I did have a few questions. I can easily set grayscale using the Standard, Medium and High settings in the service menu, however after reviewing the service manual, I've noticed sections labeled:

TA1360
FC4

The FC4 submenu has entries for Hue Slope, Width, Center and Clip for the colors of Magenta, Red, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Blue.

What are these values for? Do they affect a certain input only? I recognize those colors as being the primaries and secondaries for the (I think it's called this) CIE color space, but I'm unsure what adjusting those values would actually do.

Likewise, the TA1360 menu has values relating to 'G-Y/B-Y Gain' as well as 'R-Y/B-Y Gain' and a few others.

Furthermore, what color gamut (Rec 601 or 709...I might be using the wrong term here) does this TV use? It upconverts *everything* into 1080i, so would it be using the HDTV (709) one?

The only area that I made adjustments to for grayscale was right in the first page of the service menu. I only adjusted the Standard Temp, since it was the closet to D65. I did not have to bother with messing with the primary or secondary adjustments. As for what color gamut it uses, I went ahead and used the HD template. I used CALMAN with the Eyeone D2, which is the same hardware as the LT. If you are a CALMAN user, you can see some of my posts about it at the calman website. Do make sure to adjust COLORG, and perform an initial run and save it for reference later on what you changed. What you'll find is that you have to exit the service menu after you have made your changes, then measure.

Thanks for the reply Lee.

I'm curious to know how much lens-striping you ended up doing on your set to balance the color uniformity? How much does your color temperature actually vary across the screen and is it noticeable with plain sight?

I'm thinking THAT stage of adjustment is going to take the longest. I was thinking that the appropriate way of going about it would be to measure light intensity on a pure red screen, then pure blue, then pure green? After all, the intensity should be uniform across the screen, and if it is, then the lens-striping would be placed correctly, yes? Doing that for each color would seem the most comprehensive way...at least in my untrained-mind.

The other method of truly getting it accurate would be to take color temp readings from the dead center of the screen and then making that temperature accurate across all parts of the screen. After that procedure, then doing the grayscale adjustment?

*shrug* Have to wait for finances to come in to purchase the LT to begin with before any of this really matters :)

LastButNotLeast, those settings really helped out. My set already had S-GAIN-SW= 01
M-GAIN-SW 00 as defaults for some reason. But the white balance settings really brought the color back close to where it needs to be. Still have a little more red push than before for some reason. I would say its 90% whole again as far as color & white balace,and brightness and contrast both still need some work.

Before the nuke job I was running COLORG = 00 and now to get the same result I have to run it at COLORG = 02, not sure where the extra red push is coming from.

P.S. Once I get the set dialed back in, I'm writing down ALL adjustment code values from the SM and locking it in a safety deposit box :D

There is a Blue Stretch value way down in TA1360 that adds a ton of blue saturation to the picture but its too much and too harsh.
Sorry, but I don't have any magic method of restoring your settings but there are two notes on settings that are likely to have changed on reset: the sub-bright (which seems to have multiple sub settings) and H.POSI. The TA1300 setting in H.POSI is the horizontal frequency. In 480i mode the number should be 315; in 1080i it should be 3375. Altering the freq. could affect other, seemingly unrelated settings. I would work with these before doing anything else. Perhaps others can comment on their sub-bright settings. The frequency setting is a fixed number. This info comes from service bulletin PTV01-01 which obviously suggests that you never initialize memory. I don't know for certain if the frequency setting applies to your TV since the bulletin is a bit older than your set so verify that you actually have similar settings before altering them. The manual does not show the select items as an exact match to the bulletin and I don't have a set to verify the setting.

Changing srtga back to 10 didn't help as much as I had hoped. So tonight I'm going to try DCAM convergence. I have the DIY guide and I just have one question. I will enter DCAM with the remote and not the blue button. But the instructions don't seem to say how you exit DCAM with the remote, it just says press the blue button.

Actually I guess I have another question. The DIY guide says F59, it does work for the F51?

For your reading pleasure:


Link to TA1383 PDF document

http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/docs/datasheet/en/ASSP/TA1383AFG_en_datasheet_050905.pdf


Link to TA1360 PDF document

http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/toshiba/2716.pdf

Enjoy.

what is the point of doing dcam tweak and how does it make the picture better

what is the point of doing dcam and how does it make it better


DCAM is a service level convergence adjustment. The user-accessible Magic Focus and MF manual adj are really only for minor touchups and I'm not entirely sure how much, if any, of it gets written to the set's memory.

DCAM is a neccessity if you need to make geometry adjustments (green), since green is not available for user convergence adjs.--and to the avg user, is best it isn't! DCAM also allows the alteration of raster (overall fixed position of each color) and "rough" line adjust (fewer points) to straighten out any curved lines or if the set is in an uncorrected convergence state (i.e. after a CRT replacement or other major service work). These steps were documented in the post I made here that had cavery's overscan vs. screen jig alignment PM from a while back.

The advantage to the DIY "tweaker" by using DCAM over MF is the fact that your new convergence info will be written to the set's memory--although, according to Mr Bob (and I've found this to be the case myself), it often takes a few passes of doing DCAM adj and writing them to ROM to get settings to "stick" on Hitachi sets. another nice thing about doing convergence fixes in DCAM is the ability for you to have the currently viewed image--be it an TV or DVD signal--displayed with the DCAM convergence crosshatch displayed over it. Very good to have, esp. if you are using an outside-generated crosshatch like those on AVIA or DVE to do convergence and/or geometry fixes.

The most minor touchups could be done with the MF 117pt mode and be OK. I just prefer to go with DCAM and know my settings will be more likely to stay where they are. You'll get far less convergence drift over time if you go with DCAM mode for your convergence fixes.

I have Sears coming out to make the "adjustments" in a couple weeks. But now I noticed something else happened, I was watching a black and white movie the other night, and after about an hour or so the tv picture went dark, my daughter turned it off and on, it remained the same. So I turned it off, left it off for about 10 seconds, then turned it on. Works fine. (hmmm?) Ho often do I watch a b/w movie? Not often.

My other question is, these adjustments, will eliminate "ALL" HDMI issues regarding my set. (i.e. when I hook up HD Cable some day) or dose this only fix the problem with my Sony HDMI upconverting (DVPNS75H) DVD player?

The HDMI fix will address all the "freakouts" you experience (or should anyway), regardless of what you connect via HDMI. One thing it may not fix (if it happens to you at all) is momentary horizontal image shift. The entire picture may shift to the side for a second before going back. Other people have experienced this on other makes of TV. May just be an overall HDMI issue. I get it with the same DVD player you have very infrequently. Hasn't even occurred with the last few DVDs I've watched. Some have it happen with their HD satellite/cable boxes more often.

Of course, my set never "freaked out" with the Sony NS75H via HDMI before applying the software fix myself, so go figure.

And I doubt the fact that the film was b&w had anything to do with it. :)

I have Sears coming out to make the "adjustments" in a couple weeks. But now I noticed something else happened, I was watching a black and white movie the other night, and after about an hour or so the tv picture went dark, my daughter turned it off and on, it remained the same. So I turned it off, left it off for about 10 seconds, then turned it on. Works fine. (hmmm?) Ho often do I watch a b/w movie? Not often.

My other question is, these adjustments, will eliminate "ALL" HDMI issues regarding my set. (i.e. when I hook up HD Cable some day) or dose this only fix the problem with my Sony HDMI upconverting (DVPNS75H) DVD player?

I have Sears coming out to make the "adjustments" in a couple weeks. But now I noticed something else happened, I was watching a black and white movie the other night, and after about an hour or so the tv picture went dark, my daughter turned it off and on, it remained the same. So I turned it off, left it off for about 10 seconds, then turned it on. Works fine. (hmmm?) Ho often do I watch a b/w movie? Not often.

My other question is, these adjustments, will eliminate "ALL" HDMI issues regarding my set. (i.e. when I hook up HD Cable some day) or dose this only fix the problem with my Sony HDMI upconverting (DVPNS75H) DVD player?

Beware Sears. I had Sears technician come out for a geometry issue (that existed before the nuke job of the other day). The tech didn't even know how to get into the DCAM mode OR the service menu. He had to call Hitachi tech support hotline and be coached through how to access each. I got the impression he didn't know the finer points of working on my TV. In the end, Hitachi tech support told him to order a new DCU board (Digital Convergence Unit).

I hope convergence baseline (green) doesn't need to be set after the new DCU is installed, because I don't know if this fellow knows how to set geometry.

Sears is the only warranty service option because I bought the set there.

I don't find an H.POSI setting in any of the service menu items. Not in the service menu tables in the manual, either. Most all of the settings are two digit hex codes, too, not many three and four place decimal values in there.

QUOTE=zaphod7501]Sorry, but I don't have any magic method of restoring your settings but there are two notes on settings that are likely to have changed on reset: the sub-bright (which seems to have multiple sub settings) and H.POSI. The TA1300 setting in H.POSI is the horizontal frequency. In 480i mode the number should be 315; in 1080i it should be 3375. Altering the freq. could affect other, seemingly unrelated settings. I would work with these before doing anything else. Perhaps others can comment on their sub-bright settings. The frequency setting is a fixed number. This info comes from service bulletin PTV01-01 which obviously suggests that you never initialize memory. I don't know for certain if the frequency setting applies to your TV since the bulletin is a bit older than your set so verify that you actually have similar settings before altering them. The manual does not show the select items as an exact match to the bulletin and I don't have a set to verify the setting.[/QUOTE]

Beware Sears. I had Sears technician come out for a geometry issue (that existed before the nuke job of the other day). The tech didn't even know how to get into the DCAM mode OR the service menu. He had to call Hitachi tech support hotline and be coached through how to access each. I got the impression he didn't know the finer points of working on my TV. In the end, Hitachi tech support told him to order a new DCU board (Digital Convergence Unit).

I hope convergence baseline (green) doesn't need to be set after the new DCU is installed, because I don't know if this fellow knows how to set geometry.

Sears is the only warranty service option because I bought the set there.

.....less than a year ago? Why not thru Hitachi directly? There must be a Hitachi-authorized tech somewhere relatively near you. You could also let 'em know that the Sears tech seems clueless when it comes to your TV.

And if you needed a new DCU board (not likely, but possible), I'd think that would require or flat-out put your set into a completely non-corrected state of convergence.

How to fix that?

You guessed it....DCAM MODE! How a tech is going to have to redo convergence after a repair like that.

Get Hitachi to direct you to an authorized tech that is not connected to Sears.

.....less than a year ago? Why not thru Hitachi directly? There must be a Hitachi-authorized tech somewhere relatively near you. You could also let 'em know that the Sears tech seems clueless when it comes to your TV.

And if you needed a new DCU board (not likely, but possible), I'd think that would require or flat-out put your set into a completely non-corrected state of convergence.

How to fix that?

You guessed it....DCAM MODE! How a tech is going to have to redo convergence after a repair like that.

Get Hitachi to direct you to an authorized tech that is not connected to Sears.

Good points, all of them. I did tell the gal making my appointment at Sears "have the tech call Hitachi to get info before coming out". Let's not waste my whole Saturday with a troubleshooting expedition. Hitachi did give me two numbers, but the other service place they were unable to do a Saturday, and they challenged my assertions that "we know what is the problem, the internet reveals others with EXACTLY" the same issues" with the lame response of - "oh you can't go believing what you read on the internet kid". uhm, "I'm not a kid, and .... yes I can". "With this!"

I've experienced the image shift thing once, er, maybe twice. Ten seconds... for the image quality, I'll live with it.


P.S. The guy at at Hitachi said that component cables will deliver the 1080i resolution as good as the HDMI connection will. Is this correct? I find that hard to believe. I have the compontent cables hooked up to my old Sony DVPNS325B so I could switch over, but a 6 conductor scenerio matching a 19 pin one?

Beware Sears. I had Sears technician come out for a geometry issue (that existed before the nuke job of the other day). The tech didn't even know how to get into the DCAM mode OR the service menu. He had to call Hitachi tech support hotline and be coached through how to access each. I got the impression he didn't know the finer points of working on my TV. In the end, Hitachi tech support told him to order a new DCU board (Digital Convergence Unit).

I hope convergence baseline (green) doesn't need to be set after the new DCU is installed, because I don't know if this fellow knows how to set geometry.

Sears is the only warranty service option because I bought the set there.


Whenever a conv bd has to be replaced, be sure the conv eeprom is transfered from the old one to the new one, if it is on the board being replaced. Your set has to keep that eeprom in place.

Otherwise you'll be looking at a field REPAIR tech starting from scratch on your geometry/convergence, NOT a freelance or factory issue calibrator.

In either case, NOT the most ideal scenario.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob, you're the man! I would not have known to specify that and I suspect the Sears tech will not know either, but maybe I should stop judging him so harshly. Is this a chip that he can simply unplug and plug into the new board or must it be desoldered/resoldered?

One thing I'm going to do, is call and request that the tech get up to speed with Hitachi tech support on how to proceed with the DCU board swap out well before arriving at my house, so during the service visit the phone coaching session between him and Hitachi need not take place again, i.e. speeds up the visit.





Whenever a conv bd has to be replaced, be sure the conv eeprom is transfered from the old one to the new one, if it is on the board being replaced. Your set has to keep that eeprom in place.

Otherwise you'll be looking at a tech starting from scratch on your geometry/convergence.

NOT the most ideal scenario.


Mr Bob

Changing srtga back to 10 didn't help as much as I had hoped. So tonight I'm going to try DCAM convergence. I have the DIY guide and I just have one question. I will enter DCAM with the remote and not the blue button. But the instructions don't seem to say how you exit DCAM with the remote, it just says press the blue button.




Bueller?

I tried taking the front panel off, but didn't see a blue button. There must be a way to get out of DCAM on the F51 remote.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments on my post.

A couple more questions if I may. I've only got about 30 hours on my set but have made some adjustments just the same. Changed colorg to 01, stratg1 and 2 to the recommended settings, did an electronic focus using the 117 pt grid and have fiddled around with 117 pt convergence numerous times as it drifts out constantly. I have used DVE and the THX optimizer to set brightness, contrast, color and tint and it looks perfectly acceptable in that regard - though reds clearly are a bit orangy.

Does the 117 pt convergence become more stable with time? Also I rolled my tv 2 feet back and just that threw the convergence way off. Is that normal?

My screen went solarized for about a minute last night. Is this an HDMI thing? It came right back and I haven't had any other issues.

Most important question. How much more sharpness can I pull out of this set if I do an optical focus (assume I focus the blue and need only minor adjustments to the others) and a DCAM convergence and wait till this breaks in completely?

I ask because I am frankly dissappointed with my set so far. Standard def DVDs look fine - for example the video demo tracks on the DVE disk, but High Def looks no better than that, no better at all. By high def I mean say, Discovery HD over Dish - not a compressed HD lite signal. I had a JVC LCOS set in here a few weeks ago (had to return it because the sse was horrible) and the difference between good dvd (say, LOTR) and HD was not huge but was clearly evident. HD looked like HD. On my hitachi, HD looks like good wide screen SD, the picture is just too soft with what looks like a bit of low level noise to qualify as the HD experience.

I have played around with noise reduction, sharpness, edge enhancement and srtga setting in the service menu and while I prefer edge enhancement on low, sharpness on around 25% and noise reduction off. It just doesn't cut it - yet.

Now I'm not expecting this to look like a digital set but I have a friend with a Sony HD crt rptv from a couple years ago, one of their last I suppose, and I AM expecting the hitachi to look as good as that but it doesn't yet, not by a long shot.

I don't mind putting in the time to get the best out of this set, but before doing so I would like to know what I can expect. Right now I'm thinking that some future BB customer is going to find another great open box deal.

Thanks for help.

Mark

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments on my post.

A couple more questions if I may. I've only got about 30 hours on my set but have made some adjustments just the same. Changed colorg to 01, stratg1 and 2 to the recommended settings, did an electronic focus using the 117 pt grid and have fiddled around with 117 pt convergence numerous times as it drifts out constantly. I have used DVE and the THX optimizer to set brightness, contrast, color and tint and it looks perfectly acceptable in that regard - though reds clearly are a bit orangy.

Does the 117 pt convergence become more stable with time? Also I rolled my tv 2 feet back and just that threw the convergence way off. Is that normal?

My screen went solarized for about a minute last night. Is this an HDMI thing? It came right back and I haven't had any other issues.

Most important question. How much more sharpness can I pull out of this set if I do an optical focus (assume I focus the blue and need only minor adjustments to the others) and a DCAM convergence and wait till this breaks in completely?

I ask because I am frankly dissappointed with my set so far. Standard def DVDs look fine - for example the video demo tracks on the DVE disk, but High Def looks no better than that, no better at all. By high def I mean say, Discovery HD over Dish - not a compressed HD lite signal. I had a JVC LCOS set in here a few weeks ago (had to return it because the sse was horrible) and the difference between good dvd (say, LOTR) and HD was not huge but was clearly evident. HD looked like HD. On my hitachi, HD looks like good wide screen SD, the picture is just too soft with what looks like a bit of low level noise to qualify as the HD experience.

I have played around with noise reduction, sharpness, edge enhancement and srtga setting in the service menu and while I prefer edge enhancement on low, sharpness on around 25% and noise reduction off. It just doesn't cut it - yet.

Now I'm not expecting this to look like a digital set but I have a friend with a Sony HD crt rptv from a couple years ago, one of their last I suppose, and I AM expecting the hitachi to look as good as that but it doesn't yet, not by a long shot.

I don't mind putting in the time to get the best out of this set, but before doing so I would like to know what I can expect. Right now I'm thinking that some future BB customer is going to find another great open box deal.

Thanks for help.

Mark

Do you have a softness overall? Mine looks great except for some minor softness in the upper right quad which I think I can correct with DCAM convergence. But things like Discovery and American Idol are fantastic. You should be able to get better than what you have.

It does get better with age, that may be the major problem. You have 30 days, right?

Mr Bob, you're the man! I would not have known to specify that and I suspect the Sears tech will not know either, but maybe I should stop judging him so harshly. Is this a chip that he can simply unplug and plug into the new board or must it be desoldered/resoldered?

One thing I'm going to do, is call and request that the tech get up to speed with Hitachi tech support on how to proceed with the DCU board swap out well before arriving at my house, so during the service visit the phone coaching session between him and Hitachi need not take place again, i.e. speeds up the visit.


eeproms these days are SMD's - surface mounted devices. They may be soldered directly to the board, or on a pull-out plug-in, like Mit does.

Don't know on a Hit.

There will be a separate eeprom for all the sm changes we make in calibrating these, which will also need to be transfered, if the board it is on gets replaced.

My new 73" CRT Mit needed its DM board replaced, and they needed to transfer the eeprom I just mentioned, which was completely straghtforward - unplug from old board, plug into new board - as long as you know about it.


Mr Bob

Mike,

Yeah, we must be looking at two different images. There is no way anything in HD on mine can be called fantastic, not unless it were SD then I would OK. And yes the softness is overall not just in one part and like I said, I have no complaints with any other aspect of the set, blacks are a bit crushed but I can probably get that better with more fiddling. I've got it for 27 more days and plan to put 100 hours on it as quick as I can and really give it my best shot.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments on my post.

A couple more questions if I may. I've only got about 30 hours on my set but have made some adjustments just the same. Changed colorg to 01, stratg1 and 2 to the recommended settings, did an electronic focus using the 117 pt grid and have fiddled around with 117 pt convergence numerous times as it drifts out constantly. I have used DVE and the THX optimizer to set brightness, contrast, color and tint and it looks perfectly acceptable in that regard - though reds clearly are a bit orangy.

Red push in action. On a Hit this can be calibrated back to silky smooth clean and linear color decoder alignment, restoring completely lifelike color.



Does the 117 pt convergence become more stable with time? Also I rolled my tv 2 feet back and just that threw the convergence way off. Is that normal?

You've heard of the 100 hour burn-in period? You're only 30 hours into it. It will indeed become more stable with time.

And yes, shifting the placement of a CRT RPTV will shift the STATIC convergence, at the crosshairs. Correct that at the crosshairs ONLY, in its new viewing position and she will be back where she started.

To do this you may have to get into the sm, as I don't think the user has crosshairs that affect the entire pic on each color equally, whereas you can do that in sm. If you have not supertweaked the convergence, launching MF may get you back to accurate color centering/superimpositioning on it.



Most important question. How much more sharpness can I pull out of this set if I do an optical focus (assume I focus the blue and need only minor adjustments to the others) and a DCAM convergence and wait till this breaks in completely?

I usually find 2 out of the 3 lenses are out of focus OOB. That's why I wrote the Cantilever Technique.

Yes, it is capable of allowing you to study the grain of the film used to shoot movies, when all dialed in. It can be that sharp.


Mr Bob

I was told that "component cables will deliver the same 1080i HD signal as the HDMI cable will". Is this correct? I find that hard to believe.

I was told that "component cables will deliver the same 1080i HD signal as the HDMI cable will". Is this correct? I find that hard to believe.

Why?

Component is just one half step away from true RGB, which has been delivering line doubling, tripling and quadrupling from Faroudjas to high end CRT ceiling pjs for years. Actually, make that decades. Some of those scanrates went all the way up to 63K, in the 1080p range.

HDMI is just the combined audio/video version of DVI. Which was capable of either analog/RGB, or digital, delivery.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr. Bob!

Why?

Component is just one half step away from true RGB, which has been delivering line doubling, tripling and quadrupling from Faroudjas to high end CRT ceiling pjs for years. Actually, make that decades. Some of those scanrates went all the way up to 63K, in the 1080p range.

HDMI is just the combined audio/video version of DVI. Which was capable of either analog/RGB, or digital, delivery.


Mr Bob

Just to add to this conversation, if I may.

HDMI is just the hip, current way to deliver both digital video and audio via one cable. Keeps it easy for luddites!

I think, too, that the over-emphasis on HDMI right now has a lot to do with it's all-digital signalpath's ability to easily have digital copy protection implemented on HD and DVD sources. The reason all current upscaling/HD players will only upconvert std DVD via HDMI. The fact that some players can be "hacked" or those made for overseas markets actually do send upscaled DVD video via component proves that it's PQ difference vs. HDMI is negligible at best.

God knows the MPAA hates piracy, and will do whatever they can (usually the lamest thing they can do, mostly) to attempt to curb something they can never be able to fully squash.

Which seems to be the source of many HDMI-related "freakouts" some have experienced.

Just to add to this conversation, if I may.

The reason all current upscaling/HD players will only upconvert std DVD via HDMI.


Except for the IO Data player. It's not supposed to, but it does. Or did, the last firmware update may have cancelled it. But IMO it doesn't make any difference, to me upconverting through the DVD player doesn't make the picture any better.

what I have found most hilarious in the push to remove analog is the fact they use the argument that people make illegal backups using analog connections.

Nobody in their right mind would use analog to capture HD or backup DVDs, it is just too expensive. Most people use software on their computers to remove any of the DRM and dump the disc onto their HDD. It is all digital. No where is analog actually used. Personally I think that it is more safe and less headache.

I don't know about you but at the rate DRM is being pushed onto us we will soon need to get written approval just to watch something in our own homes.

P.S. Once I get the set dialed back in, I'm writing down ALL adjustment code values from the SM and locking it in a safety deposit box :D
You don't need a safe deposit box. WE'RE here.
Congratulations, and welcome back.
Michael

Bueller?

I tried taking the front panel off, but didn't see a blue button. There must be a way to get out of DCAM on the F51 remote.

It's a very small, light blue button to the right of the center (on the bottom). I spent 15 minutes searching for this too. Can't help with the remote method cause I've always used the button.


My screen went solarized for about a minute last night. Is this an HDMI thing? It came right back and I haven't had any other issues.

I had this just happen and had to turn off the set and turn it back on. Had my set on Input 3, turned on the HTPC for a couple minutes, switched to input 1 and Holy Hell suntan mode came on. It was unreal. No picture... just intense brightness. So I turned off the set and then it was back to normal when I turned it on. 1st time this ever happened. Only anomaly I've witnessed in over a week since making the HDMI fix... but it was completely unacceptable if it becomes routine.

Major problem. Did the DCAM convergence, exited, and when I turned the TV back on had a white screen. Turned it off and on again and had a distorted picture, with diagnal lines and a black bar scrolling up. Now back to a white picture.

I'm sure I followe the manual. Now what?

edited later - good news is the picture is back. Unplugged TV for a while. Bad news is the picture looks a little off. Even with contrast at 20 and brightness at 40 it just looks, almost like it's in torch mode. Colors seem unnatural, like there is a red filter over everything. Is there a way to set everything back to factory settings. I don't mean in the main menu, that just puts it in torch mode.

Why?

Component is just one half step away from true RGB, which has been delivering line doubling, tripling and quadrupling from Faroudjas to high end CRT ceiling pjs for years. Actually, make that decades. Some of those scanrates went all the way up to 63K, in the 1080p range.

HDMI is just the combined audio/video version of DVI. Which was capable of either analog/RGB, or digital, delivery.


Mr Bob

Thanks so much for the education. I really appreciate it. I do.

-So what your saying is (if I understand you correctly) if I were to run the component cables from my upscaling dvd player to my Hitachi 51F59, I would not realize the difference between analog and digital? I thought the uncompressed digital signal was the whole "better" aspect of HDMI vs analog RGB, especially on a larger screen.

So the whole HDMI hype is "just that" HYPE FOR DRM?
I feel so stupid!

JaWebb

Thanks I just bought this tv and was having the problems that everyone else was. It was pretty much pre-programmed for the fix Except for the 0A09 line it was not set to 0A09 0C like it should have been, but after changing it the fix was complete. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. Now if anyone has any suggestions on the basic Video settings for optimal picture it would be wonderful!

JaWebb

Thanks I just bought this tv and was having the problems that everyone else was. It was pretty much pre-programmed for the fix Except for the 0A09 line it was not set to 0A09 0C like it should have been, but after changing it the fix was complete. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. Now if anyone has any suggestions on the basic Video settings for optimal picture it would be wonderful!


THere are a lot in this thread. It does vary set to set, try contrast at 25, brightness at 50, sharpness at 50, color at 45, all enhancements off.

See how that looks, later maybe you can go into simple service menu adjustments.

Continuing to work on this. Found this post -

If we can cure coolant cooties, we can do anything!
It just so happens I checked my values when I got my service manual (and WROTE THEM DOWN - lesson learned?!). There aren't that many that are different. I think some overlap with Lee's, posted elsewhere. Try them, you have little to lose:
G DRV HIGH 2F
R DRV HIGH 17
R CUT HIGH 8B
G CUT HIGH 7F
B CUT HIGH 97

SUB-BRT 72 (manual = 7F)

and two more near the end that made a big difference:
S-GAIN-SW 01 (manual = 00)
M-GAIN-SW 00 (manual = 01)

Changed those values and the picture is much improved. Still not quite there, and the SD picture is terrible. Used to be very good. What else can I do? As the poster in the quoted thread once said, I will pay someone for help.

I've got to give this a rest now, this is not how I wanted to spend Friday night. But knowing me, I'll probably keep trying.

Think I could get away with calling Best Buy and telling them my picture suddenly went wacky? :D

Holy crap mabrym it sounds like your service menu settings somehow got nuked like mine did. The color drive and cut settings within each white balance (HIGH, MED, STD) are key to getting the color right. The overdriven red picture with poor brightness and contrast are exactly what mine had after my set got its service menu memory initialized, but I don't see how this could happen from doing a DCAM convergence.

Thanks so much for the education. I really appreciate it. I do.

-So what your saying is (if I understand you correctly) if I were to run the component cables from my upscaling dvd player to my Hitachi 51F59, I would not realize the difference between analog and digital? I thought the uncompressed digital signal was the whole "better" aspect of HDMI vs analog RGB, especially on a larger screen.

So the whole HDMI hype is "just that" HYPE FOR DRM?
I feel so stupid!

Well, I think I answered my own question on this one. I thought I'd share for anyone who might benefit from my discovery.

So, which is better, DVI or component? HDMI or component? The answer--unsatisfying, perhaps, but true--is that it depends. It depends upon your source and display devices, and there's no good way, in principle, to say in advance whether the digital or the analog connection will render a better picture. You may even find, say, that your DVD player looks better through its DVI or HDMI output, while your satellite or cable box looks better through its component output, on the same display. In this case, there's no real substitute for simply plugging it in and giving it a try both ways.

This was found here - AT THIS LINK (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html)

Well, I think I answered my own question on this one. I thought I'd share for anyone who might benefit from my discovery.



This was found here - AT THIS LINK (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html)

Excellent treatise!

What my question now is, why hasn't somebody like Monster or Blue Jeans Cable or Outlaw come up with DVI/HDMI cables made of coax rather than twisted pair???

:confused:

Best of both worlds and all that...


Mr Bob

What I can not figure out now is, why when I hook up to the YCbCr (which the NS75H says is also HDMI in set-up screen) is only displayed in 480P format on my TV? Only the HDMI input says it's coming through in 1080i. ??? So Sony did not bother with the circuit to allow you to access the higher image resolution "except" by using the HDMI connection. Hmmm. Maybe higher end DVD player would.

Excellent treatise!

What my question now is, why hasn't somebody like Monster or Blue Jeans Cable or Outlaw come up with DVI/HDMI cables made of coax rather than twisted pair???

:confused:

Best of both worlds and all that...


Mr Bob

Indeed. Seems they are more interested in re-inventing rather improving on an already available concept.

Looks like Mabrym has the same trouble I am working through-- loss of service menu adjustment codes. I've found that the color fidelity *appears* to chiefly be controlled by the color drive and color cut codes stored in the TA1383 section of the service menu. There are codes for each color temp but only color cut codes for blue (red and green have both drive and cut codes). Mine are listed below, and are by no means "dialed-in" very well, since I am still in the process of recovering from the complete nuking of all my service menu adjustment codes. Most of mine are still at the default values they reverted to after being erased, but some (thanks to LastButNotLeast, JWebb1970, Zaphod, et al) are closer to producing accurate color. It should be noted that each tv is going to vary slightly in how it produces hues and color so adjustment codes from a perfectly dailed-in or calibrated tv may not yield the same results on another 51F59 (or other F59 series) but they should be a vast improvement from the default codes that the set reverts to when memory is inadvertently cleared. Here are mine, and as mentioned I am still in the process of trying to get my color back to where it was before I lost everything:

TA1383

G-DRV-H 2B
G-DRV-M 44
G-DRV-S 50 (default)
R-DRV-H 15
R-DRV-M 46
R-DRV-S 55 (default)
R-CUT-H 8A
R-CUT-M 7F (default)
R-CUT-S 7F (default)
G-CUT-H 7E
G-CUT-M 7E
G-CUT-S 7F (default)
B-CUT-H 99
B-CUT-M 7F (default)
B-CUT-S 7F (default)
TINT-1 08 (default)
TINT-2 08 (default)


H, M, and S stand for color temp: high, medium, and standard. As you can see, I have not attempted to correct standard color temp yet, it is still at the default values it reverted to after the memory got initialized this past Monday :( High and Medium are coming along but are not there yet.

I'm trying to understand how cut works, it seems to be more of a faint color wash effect of that color over the entire screen, whereas drive is a direct increase in the saturation of that color. Drive seems to be more of a direct effect function and cut more of a background less noticeable function, if that makes any sense (Mr. Bob try to stop rolling on the floor laughing at my layman's attempt to quantify this ;) )

:( There are no ISF professional calibrators near me..closest one is 150 miles away. If there was one in my city, I would cheerfuly pay for a pro calibration and not even try all this. The one who shows 150 miles away (Bloomington, IN) shows as an ISF certified color analyzer, too, on ISF's website search... sure wish he was closer.

Got it. This is a valid thing, not having qualified people close by.


Keep in mind that grayscale is the b/w info, NOT color. You do the colorations AFTER the b/w plaform has been dialed in.

Grayscale has a huge learning curve, so don't feel daunted by not being successful at first. I am available for very affordable phone consultation if you need it.

Keep in mind also that nothing but D6500K in STD is ever needed in video. (Unless you're a b/w watcher and desire D5400K. I think D6500K looks best for b/w also, but D5400K is technically the standard for b/w.)

They give you an assortment of color temps in the HOPE that one of them MIGHT be close to D6500K. I NEVER calibrate anything but D6500K, and never anything but STD. One grayscale is all you need. So just work on STD, for grayscale.


Mr Bob

I'm back to no picture. Tried to go into service menu, got the normal screen for a second, then it went green and the audio started buzzing. Could not even turn power off. Had to unplug it. I'm going to call BB and see what happens.

Did the screen go magenta first, then green, then did the tv tune to channel 3? What you're describing sounds exactly like the sequence the tv displays during both FACT RESET option and MEMORY INITIALIZE option executing in the service menu. If these things are occuring spontaneously, then you've got a defect in the tv. Having to unplug it to turn it off is also a normal part of the result of a FACT RESET or MEMORY INITIALIZE execution.

Looks like Mabrym has the same trouble I am working through-- loss of service menu adjustment codes. I've found that the color fidelity *appears* to chiefly be controlled by the color drive and color cut codes stored in the TA1383 section of the service menu. There are codes for each color temp but only color cut codes for blue (red and green have both drive and cut codes). Mine are listed below, and are by no means "dialed-in" very well, since I am still in the process of recovering from the complete nuking of all my service menu adjustment codes. Most of mine are still at the default values they reverted to after being erased, but some (thanks to LastButNotLeast, JWebb1970, Zaphod, et al) are closer to producing accurate color. It should be noted that each tv is going to vary slightly in how it produces hues and color so adjustment codes from a perfectly dailed-in or calibrated tv may not yield the same results on another 51F59 (or other F59 series) but they should be a vast improvement from the default codes that the set reverts to when memory is inadvertently cleared. Here are mine, and as mentioned I am still in the process of trying to get my color back to where it was before I lost everything:

TA1383

G-DRV-H 2B
G-DRV-M 44
G-DRV-S 50 (default)
R-DRV-H 15
R-DRV-M 46
R-DRV-S 55 (default)
R-CUT-H 8A
R-CUT-M 7F (default)
R-CUT-S 7F (default)
G-CUT-H 7E
G-CUT-M 7E
G-CUT-S 7F (default)
B-CUT-H 99
B-CUT-M 7F (default)
B-CUT-S 7F (default)
TINT-1 08 (default)
TINT-2 08 (default)


H, M, and S stand for color temp: high, medium, and standard. As you can see, I have not attempted to correct standard color temp yet, it is still at the default values it reverted to after the memory got initialized this past Monday :( High and Medium are coming along but are not there yet.

I'm trying to understand how cut works, it seems to be more of a faint color wash effect of that color over the entire screen, whereas drive is a direct increase in the saturation of that color. Drive seems to be more of a direct effect function and cut more of a background less noticeable function, if that makes any sense (Mr. Bob try to stop rolling on the floor laughing at my layman's attempt to quantify this ;) )

:( There are no ISF professional calibrators near me..closest one is 150 miles away. If there was one in my city, I would cheerfuly pay for a pro calibration and not even try all this. The one who shows 150 miles away (Bloomington, IN) shows as an ISF certified color analyzer, too, on ISF's website search... sure wish he was closer.


I used those settings and it's a great improvement. Now I've got what looks like a good SD picture on HD channels. Will await any further adjustmnents you make if you would please post them. My color looks fairly good, but the overall sharpness and "pop" is lacking.

I used those settings and it's a great improvement. Now I've got what looks like a good SD picture on HD channels. Will await any further adjustmnents you make if you would please post them. My color looks fairly good, but the overall sharpness and "pop" is lacking.

mabrym, if your looking for an ISF to maybe come & tweak your TV, I just got my set done today & boy does my picture look better. I also did some Service Menu Tweaks & thought my picture looked good. Boy was I wrong. My Gray-Scale was totally off. The ISF tweaked my set to 6500k, did some fixing of Over-Scan & right now my set is looking better than ever. I posted some HD DVD Screens of RIDDICK in the f59 thread if you want to check them out.


PM if you want the guys info. I highly recommend it

mabrym, if your looking for an ISF to maybe come & tweak your TV, I just got my set done today & boy does my picture look better. I also did some Service Menu Tweaks & thought my picture looked good. Boy was I wrong. My Gray-Scale was totally off. The ISF tweaked my set to 6500k, did some fixing of Over-Scan & right now my set is looking better than ever. I posted some HD DVD Screens of RIDDICK in the f59 thread if you want to check them out.


PM if you want the guys info. I highly recommend it


I just don't have the money right now but I may do that later. So you mind telling me the cost? Are you in the NYC area?

I just bought the 65f59 online on thursday and should be getting it tuesday. I,m setting it up in my basement where my old MIT50" was. I have about 13' of distance to view from with the current furniture setup. do you think this will be enough?

Did the screen go magenta first, then green, then did the tv tune to channel 3? What you're describing sounds exactly like the sequence the tv displays during both FACT RESET option and MEMORY INITIALIZE option executing in the service menu. If these things are occuring spontaneously, then you've got a defect in the tv. Having to unplug it to turn it off is also a normal part of the result of a FACT RESET or MEMORY INITIALIZE execution.


That's what happens. Did I cause this last night? I was able to get into the service menu after that happened and make your adjustments.

I think what happened to me last night was described earlier in the thread. After turning off power, I might have pressed a button on the remote while it was in DCAM. I'm not sure though, I think I pressed the Magic Focus button and then the problem occured. Because I do remember pressing TV 0 1 which was supposed to turn the power off but didn't.

I just bought the 65f59 online on thursday and should be getting it tuesday. I,m setting it up in my basement where my old MIT50" was. I have about 13' of distance to view from with the current furniture setup. do you think this will be enough?


I sit 8' back from my 65" Panny and am in heaven.

Part of my criteria for superlative calibration is the ability to sit marvelously closer to your RPTV than ever before, and still have it be perfectly coherent where you watch the images. (Due to hitting our heads on the limits of the technology, on RPTVs part of this sometimes needs to be to shove all the remaining convergence and/or focusing error that CAN'T be eradicated out to the far, far edges, where nobody really actually watches the show anyway. This leaves the primary viewed area being where it's superlative, which is an absolutely delicious experience... This is not true of the more expensive ceiling pjs, where you have all the space you need to make it ALL coherent).

I think you'll be just fine at 13' viewing distance. In fact properly calibrated, I'd say at 13' you'd be WAY too far back to properly and appropriately enjoy HD on your 65".


Mr Bob

I was having the same issues with my upconverting dvd player hooked up via hdmi. I just made the service menu corrections. I am sure this will fix the problem, but I will post again if it doesn't.

Anyways, thanks jwebb for the very useful info. This forum never seems to let me down when it comes to issues with my audio/video equipment. Thanks again to jwebb and anyone else who posts similar solutions on this forum!

I sit 8' back from my 65" Panny and am in heaven.

Part of my criteria for superlative calibration is the ability to sit marvelously closer to your RPTV than ever before, and still have it be perfectly coherent where you watch the images. (Due to hitting our heads on the limits of the technology, on RPTVs part of this sometimes needs to be to shove all the remaining convergence and/or focusing error that CAN'T be eradicated out to the far, far edges, where nobody really actually watches the show anyway. This leaves the primary viewed area being where it's superlative, which is an absolutely delicious experience... This is not true of the more expensive ceiling pjs, where you have all the space you need to make it ALL coherent).

I think you'll be just fine at 13' viewing distance. In fact properly calibrated, I'd say at 13' you'd be WAY too far back to properly and appropriately enjoy HD on your 65".


Mr Bob
Thanks for the feedback. I can't wait to see if my new toy is as good as I hope it is. After all I did buy this sight unseen and was going buy user opinion and product reviews. This sight was a lot of help in making my decission. Thanks again.

I used those settings and it's a great improvement. Now I've got what looks like a good SD picture on HD channels. Will await any further adjustmnents you make if you would please post them. My color looks fairly good, but the overall sharpness and "pop" is lacking.


Check your SUB BRIGHT setting also. Defaults to 7F but was at 74 before I lost it, it was one of the very few settings I had wrote down before the loss. Try it at around 72, 73, or 74 and see if that helps.

Check your SUB BRIGHT setting also. Defaults to 7F but was at 74 before I lost it, it was one of the very few settings I had wrote down before the loss. Try it at around 72, 73, or 74 and see if that helps.

I actually saw that suggestion elsewhere. Mine was at 72, they said turn it down to 60. That didn't work but I tried 68 and it looks a lot better. Contrast has to be higher, but at 38 it's still plenty low enough.

I think I'm close to where I started. I assume the DCAM adjustments I made were lost.

I sit 8' back from my 65" Panny and am in heaven.

Part of my criteria for superlative calibration is the ability to sit marvelously closer to your RPTV than ever before, and still have it be perfectly coherent where you watch the images. (Due to hitting our heads on the limits of the technology, on RPTVs part of this sometimes needs to be to shove all the remaining convergence and/or focusing error that CAN'T be eradicated out to the far, far edges, where nobody really actually watches the show anyway. This leaves the primary viewed area being where it's superlative, which is an absolutely delicious experience... This is not true of the more expensive ceiling pjs, where you have all the space you need to make it ALL coherent).

I think you'll be just fine at 13' viewing distance. In fact properly calibrated, I'd say at 13' you'd be WAY too far back to properly and appropriately enjoy HD on your 65".


Mr Bob

I agree, I am 6' back from my 51" Hitachi. I'm absolutley euphoric!!
Watching my favorites films like Ben Hur, Raiders, Star Wars, LOTR, and Concert DVD's. With just a glint of backing room light, the image quality seems to pull me right into the action.

One thing I've discovered is... over the last two weeks of having the best picture just this side of true HD/BD, is that when properly sized to a room, a "bigscreen" will meld with the decor. My living-room is not that big, my wife was concerned at how it initially "stuck-out", of course going from 27" to 51" will produce an over exaggerated effect. Bottom-line, you get use to it.

Check your SUB BRIGHT setting also. Defaults to 7F but was at 74 before I lost it, it was one of the very few settings I had wrote down before the loss. Try it at around 72, 73, or 74 and see if that helps.

I'm either adventerous or stupid but I went back into DCAM to adjust convergence again. This time no problem and the set is looking the best it ever has. You might want to try that before adjusting other settings.

I'm either adventerous or stupid but I went back into DCAM to adjust convergence again. This time no problem and the set is looking the best it ever has. You might want to try that before adjusting other settings.

I've found that the one white balance setting that has the most noticeable effect on red wash of the picture is R-DRV-H. I took mine down from 15 to 13 and it helped remove the faint red wash, even though I've got medium color temp in use on the user menu.

My convergence is tight, except for the fact that the geometry has taken on a bowing effect (opposite of pincushion). Hitachi told the less than stellar Sears tv repairman (bought it @ Sears so have to use Sears for warranty claims, no choice) that it needs a new DCU (Digital Convergence Unit). That part is on order. But the convergence is well adjusted, minimal fringing of red, the usual slight blooming of blue around the vertical convergence grid lines on the left half of the screen.

I agree, when the color is adjusted fairly well and the convergence is accurate these tv's produce a picture equivalent or better than a DLP or LCD of the same screen size... and for significantly less money.

I've been trolling around these forums for a while and wanted to get the biggest bang for my buck for an HDTV and finally purchased the 51 model for $799 from CC. I had the same HDMI issue as everyone else and applied the fix. Everything is working great now. Thanks to everyone who posted their tweaked settings. There's a noticeable improvement in the picture after applying them. I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the picture quality.

I've found that the one white balance setting that has the most noticeable effect on red wash of the picture is R-DRV-H. I took mine down from 15 to 13 and it helped remove the faint red wash, even though I've got medium color temp in use on the user menu.

My convergence is tight, except for the fact that the geometry has taken on a bowing effect (opposite of pincushion). Hitachi told the less than stellar Sears tv repairman (bought it @ Sears so have to use Sears for warranty claims, no choice) that it needs a new DCU (Digital Convergence Unit). That part is on order. But the convergence is well adjusted, minimal fringing of red, the usual slight blooming of blue around the vertical convergence grid lines on the left half of the screen.

I agree, when the color is adjusted fairly well and the convergence is accurate these tv's produce a picture equivalent or better than a DLP or LCD of the same screen size... and for significantly less money.


I'll try that setting. I've still got a little convergence work to do, I didn't do much around the edges. Standard setting is still not good but it doesn't matter, I don't need 3 setting for each input. Thanks for all the help.

Just wondering if anyone could answer a question about focus....

I've teaked the basic settings as per this thread and the picture quality for movies/tv is great.. but when I have my xbox at 1080i and have a screen with lots of text I do notice the left/right corners aren't focused as well as the middle 85% of the screen. It seems that no amount of magic focus or manual convergence really helps...

I've read the posts about mechanical focusing and uniformity across the entire screen...but should i expecting it to be just 'pretty good' or 'excellent' focus on the edges..

I was going to call hitachi to see if a tech could come out under warranty and have a look, but I'm not sure this is a warranty issue or me being to picky... the text is only slighty de-focused (but still anoying)

@hackmeister
I just picked up the 51F59 from CC this weekend as well! Good thing we grabbed them this weekend.... the price just went back up to $950 today! Check out circuit city's site for the 51f59

I've found that the one white balance setting that has the most noticeable effect on red wash of the picture is R-DRV-H. I took mine down from 15 to 13 and it helped remove the faint red wash, even though I've got medium color temp in use on the user menu.

My convergence is tight, except for the fact that the geometry has taken on a bowing effect (opposite of pincushion). Hitachi told the less than stellar Sears tv repairman (bought it @ Sears so have to use Sears for warranty claims, no choice) that it needs a new DCU (Digital Convergence Unit). That part is on order. But the convergence is well adjusted, minimal fringing of red, the usual slight blooming of blue around the vertical convergence grid lines on the left half of the screen.

I agree, when the color is adjusted fairly well and the convergence is accurate these tv's produce a picture equivalent or better than a DLP or LCD of the same screen size... and for significantly less money.


Keep track of the eeprom when the DCU gets replaced, make sure it gets transfered over from old to new if it is contained on the DCU board being replaced.

Remember, it contains all the settings for conv on YOUR particular unit.


Mr Bob

Just wondering if anyone could answer a question about focus....

I've teaked the basic settings as per this thread and the picture quality for movies/tv is great.. but when I have my xbox at 1080i and have a screen with lots of text I do notice the left/right corners aren't focused as well as the middle 85% of the screen. It seems that no amount of magic focus or manual convergence really helps...

I've read the posts about mechanical focusing and uniformity across the entire screen...but should i expecting it to be just 'pretty good' or 'excellent' focus on the edges..

I was going to call hitachi to see if a tech could come out under warranty and have a look, but I'm not sure this is a warranty issue or me being to picky... the text is only slighty de-focused (but still anoying)


BE sure your contrast is not up too high. If so, lettering in all white will blur.


Mr Bob

@hackmeister
I just picked up the 51F59 from CC this weekend as well! Good thing we grabbed them this weekend.... the price just went back up to $950 today! Check out circuit city's site for the 51f59
I ordered mine online so I didn't have to deal with the sales drones. Also home delivery is free online but $55 if you purchase at the store. That's all the arm twisting I needed. I did purchase an extended service plan (just in case). I watched SNL in HD and the picture quality was amazing. Too bad the show sucked otherwise. :)
Can't wait to watch Heroes tonight.

My set is looking much better now after I adjusted the electronic focus and did a careful 117 pt manual convergence - thanks to the comments I've find here.

I was really thinking of returning the set but can see now it's going to be great so it is definitely a keeper. Now, I'm interested in doing an optical focus and as my red gun looks a bit off (I can see red on either side of the green when I do a convergence).

I see that you can reach the focus rings on the guns from the front of the set by removing the button panel so it shouldn't be too hard - but I just had a few questions:

Is the 117 pt cross hatch screen adequate for this or should I use another screen from the avia set up disk? If so which one?

Is getting a good focus compromise across the screen tricky?

What about focussing blue? I saw a thread somewhere else (can't remember where) where a pro calibrator said that the current generation of blue guns don't have to be defocussed a bit and most people find that images looked sharper with the blue gun tightly focussed. Anybody with experience with this care to chime in?

Thanks!

A word on SSE.

For people bothered by the silk screen effect caused by the screen "texture" you should know it is much worse on all digital rptvs. I returned a JVC LCOS because I found it intolerable. And the Samsung, toshiba and Sony sets were either the same or only a little better. By comparison, it's barely noticable on the hitachi especially with the contrast set properly.

If you find it unacceptable on this set, I think your only option is plasma - 50" plasmas start around $2000!

My set is looking much better now after I adjusted the electronic focus and did a careful 117 pt manual convergence - thanks to the comments I've find here.

I was really thinking of returning the set but can see now it's going to be great so it is definitely a keeper. Now, I'm interested in doing an optical focus and as my red gun looks a bit off (I can see red on either side of the green when I do a convergence).

I see that you can reach the focus rings on the guns from the front of the set by removing the button panel so it shouldn't be too hard - but I just had a few questions:

Is the 117 pt cross hatch screen adequate for this or should I use another screen from the avia set up disk? If so which one?

Is getting a good focus compromise across the screen tricky?

What about focussing blue? I saw a thread somewhere else (can't remember where) where a pro calibrator said that the current generation of blue guns don't have to be defocussed a bit and most people find that images looked sharper with the blue gun tightly focussed. Anybody with experience with this care to chime in?

Thanks!


Do NOT do any focusing at the CRT necks, down below under the fibreboard panel. That is only for astigmatism correction, and only when the astig magnet ring sets are present on your unit. The other magnet rings are STRICTLY for centering, and you won't need to do that.

AVIA Widescreen Enhanced Circlehatch Grid at 50 IRE is best for convergence, NOT the internally gen'd grids.

Good focusing across the screen is a scheimpflug alignment, but this not an issue with Hitachis.

Go ahead and focus blue tightly, unless it makes your white peaks sour. If so, put it back where it was or redo your grayscale.


Mr Bob

A word on SSE.

For people bothered by the silk screen effect caused by the screen "texture" you should know it is much worse on all digital rptvs. I returned a JVC LCOS because I found it intolerable. And the Samsung, toshiba and Sony sets were either the same or only a little better. By comparison, it's barely noticable on the hitachi especially with the contrast set properly.

If you find it unacceptable on this set, I think your only option is plasma - 50" plasmas start around $2000!


Due to the wide color dispersion requirements of side-by-side triple-gun tech, CRT RPTVs use a fresnel/lenticular combination for their viewscreens, which have none of the rastiness of fixed pixel - SSE, hotspotting, etc.

This combo is not used in the single-lens fixed pixel arena, where much simpler - and cheaper - single layer screens are used.


Mr Bob

Hi all:


I have a red mechanical focus issue. Each of the corner cross-hatches in the 9 pt. convergence test have red halos around them. The rest are purplish blue. I understand blue is supposed to be fuzzy... so I think I have a red fuzzy issue.

I have tried adjusting the red electronic focus in behind the front service panel. This cannot get rid of the red halo.

PS. Just where in the heck is that blue "service only" button?? I cant see it at all in there. Could someone send a picture or describe just exactly where it is??

I also would like to know how to do a red mechanical focus adjustment. Where and how is such an adjustment made?

Sincerely appreciating any feedback,

Colin

Colin,

I have the same problem with red focus.

If you remove the front grill you will see on either side of the button panel (the buttons the duplicate the remote functions) is a screw. If you remove these two screws the button panel comes off, buttons and all. It's connected to the inside by wires which are long enough to pull the panel away and look inside. I let the panel hang gently by the wires, it weighs very little, but I suppose it would be better to rig something to rest it on. Note that I am not talking about the rectangle of particle board down below that you remove to get access to the electronic focus control - you can leave that on - but the little panel right under the screen.

Anyway you can look inside the set with the panel removed and you will see the crt gun's cylindrical barrels tilted slightly away from you toward the mirror on the back of the set. If the set is on you can see color leaking out showing which is which, the red gun is on the left. Directly facing you on the side of each gun's lens barrel is a wing nut. If you loosen it you can turn the focus ring at the top of each lens being careful not to touch the lens with your fingers and smudge it. You don't have to move it very much to alter focus. You probably won't turn the ring more than a few milimeters

See Mr. Bob's comments on focusing above.

I plan to do a careful focus of all 3 guns once I get the Avia disk with the recommended cross hatch pattern. Apparently the ones generated by the set are not ideal for this.

I have two questions for you guys, 1) I know i saw this talk about some where but what should i use to clean the screen with. 2) Can i use a dvd to calib. the white cuts?

Colin,

I have the same problem with red focus.

If you remove the front grill you will see on either side of the button panel (the buttons the duplicate the remote functions) is a screw. If you remove these two screws the button panel comes off, buttons and all. It's connected to the inside by wires which are long enough to pull the panel away and look inside. I let the panel hang gently by the wires, it weighs very little, but I suppose it would be better to rig something to rest it on. Note that I am not talking about the rectangle of particle board down below that you remove to get access to the electronic focus control - you can leave that on - but the little panel right under the screen.

Anyway you can look inside the set with the panel removed and you will see the crt gun's cylindrical barrels tilted slightly away from you toward the mirror on the back of the set. If the set is on you can see color leaking out showing which is which, the red gun is on the left. Directly facing you on the side of each gun's lens barrel is a wing nut. If you loosen it you can turn the focus ring at the top of each lens being careful not to touch the lens with your fingers and smudge it. You don't have to move it very much to alter focus. You probably won't turn the ring more than a few milimeters

See Mr. Bob's comments on focusing above.

I plan to do a careful focus of all 3 guns once I get the Avia disk with the recommended cross hatch pattern. Apparently the ones generated by the set are not ideal for this.

Thanks! This will prove invaluable. :cool:

PS Any hints for the blue "service only" button's location?? :confused:

Does anyone know if there's a 50 IRE grid pattern you can just download for free? I've got DVE and I don't feel like buying Avia just for that pattern. I tried google, but just got a couple hits talking about Avia.


Colin,

I have the same problem with red focus.

If you remove the front grill you will see on either side of the button panel (the buttons the duplicate the remote functions) is a screw. If you remove these two screws the button panel comes off, buttons and all. It's connected to the inside by wires which are long enough to pull the panel away and look inside. I let the panel hang gently by the wires, it weighs very little, but I suppose it would be better to rig something to rest it on. Note that I am not talking about the rectangle of particle board down below that you remove to get access to the electronic focus control - you can leave that on - but the little panel right under the screen.

Anyway you can look inside the set with the panel removed and you will see the crt gun's cylindrical barrels tilted slightly away from you toward the mirror on the back of the set. If the set is on you can see color leaking out showing which is which, the red gun is on the left. Directly facing you on the side of each gun's lens barrel is a wing nut. If you loosen it you can turn the focus ring at the top of each lens being careful not to touch the lens with your fingers and smudge it. You don't have to move it very much to alter focus. You probably won't turn the ring more than a few milimeters

See Mr. Bob's comments on focusing above.

I plan to do a careful focus of all 3 guns once I get the Avia disk with the recommended cross hatch pattern. Apparently the ones generated by the set are not ideal for this.

So you can actually get your hands in there and do the calibration? I took the panel off, but my wingnuts are concealed by the duvetyne and lens hood. And I didn't feel like pulling things out until I actually do it.

Good question on the 50 ire grid pattern as I can borrow dve but don't know anyone with avia.

And yes, adjusting the optical focus physically is just a matter of reaching your hand in and turning the ring. I fiddled with a bit but want to do it right so I'm waiting for the right cross hatch screen to do it with.

Thanks! This will prove invaluable. :cool:



PS Any hints for the blue "service only" button's location?? :confused:


Unless someone beats me to it, I'll take a picture of mine and post it.

However, I NEVER use the blue button anymore. You can actually access DCAM mode from the remote. The following steps are from the DIY guide:



a. Press and Hold TV key on remote then press ASPECT, then 9. (puts remote in LINE ADJUST mode)
b. Press STOP key (bottom of remote, has black square on it) to enter DYNAMIC ADJUST mode.
c. Change Remote to DCU mode: TV + MENU + INFO


Sometimes, I have found that I need to do the "return remote to 'normal'" procedure (hold TV and press 0 than 1, then release TV) before this works.

But it sure beats opening up the front of the TV every time you want/need to run a DCAM pass. Although that "blue button" is behind the removable spkr grill. Pull the grill off and remove the six screws that hold the front access panel on (the rectangular piece of particle board). The blue service button is right of center on the circuit boards facing up from the base of the set's insides. Very small, light blue colored button facing forward among the sea of circuits.

As I said, if you don't find it (or someone beats me to it), I'll post a pic of mine.

Or just try the remote mode of DCAM access and not worry about that button.

And mind what I've learned......DCAM alignment perfection on the internal crosshatch grid doesn't always mean perfect convergence for actual program material. When in DCAM, press MENU on the remote. This cycles you thru various DCAM display modes ("white" crosshatch, "Isolated color" crosshatch, crosshatch over input source material and 2 versions of moveable crosshairs over input source material). The crosshatch over program material and the 2 crosshair modes are best for geting convergence tight across the screen when using both actual video (DVD, cable, sat, HD and SD stuff) and static outboard signals like the crosshatch patterns found on AVIA, DVE.....even THX Optimizers (although those are a tad bright, I think).

If you were to look at my set's internal DCAM crosshatch, you'd think that the picture must look awful. Totally misaligned blue on the far left vertical line and minor red/blue errors everywhere else. But look at either regular TV and DVD material (esp. the AVIA 50 IRE crosshatch) and convergence is rock solid.

I found that this is actually even more true if your set's overscan rate has been reduced---although I could be wrong. Certainly seems to be the case with mine.

JWEBB: I've got a completely mental moment that hopefully you can clear up. How do these crosshatch patterns help while doing electrical and optical focus? Isn't that pattern just white? Don't you need to separate the colors in order for this to work? Or, and I think it just hit me, are you running that pattern and just covering two lenses at a time?

Does anyone know if there's a 50 IRE grid pattern you can just download for free? I've got DVE and I don't feel like buying Avia just for that pattern. I tried google, but just got a couple hits talking about Avia.




If you don't want to buy if for a single grid pattern, AVIA is available for rental from Netflix.

Although I find it good to own both AVIA and DVE, myself.

If you don't want to buy if for a single grid pattern, AVIA is available for rental from Netflix.

Although I find it good to own both AVIA and DVE, myself.

Duh! Great idea (Didn't even think to look). I've also set the DVR to record the HDNET test patterns on Sun. at 6:50 a.m. It'll be interesting to at least see them.

JWEBB: I've got a completely mental moment that hopefully you can clear up. How do these crosshatch patterns help while doing electrical and optical focus? Isn't that pattern just white? Don't you need to separate the colors in order for this to work? Or, and I think it just hit me, are you running that pattern and just covering two lenses at a time?

EDIT: First off, props to Mr Bob for the info on this issue. He has been an invaluble source of CRT RPTV enlightenment here.

Excerpt of an email conversation I've had with him regarding such things:


I NEVER use internal grids for convergence. ONLY for geometry, as one of the indicators you mentioned.

(My indicators were scrolling credits from movies and some panning shots of static images from the Star Wars Empire Of Dreams documentary from the Trilogy DVD Boxset, btw)

They are too fat, too bright/hot for convergence, when your set is going to be playing back real world material.

That’s why Hit really made advances when they started allowing us to supertweak the convergence on SENT-IN material, rather than being stuck with their internally gen’d grids, which on the old ones we are STILL stuck with.

On Mits’s, both the internal grid and the externally sent-in grid show on the same screen during sm convergence. You can actually see what you mentioned below, affecting one differently from the other, ON THE SAME SCREEN!

DEFINITELY prioritize a medium light level SENT-IN grid for convergence, at all times.



The Avia 50 IRE pattern, for example, is not nearly as bright--and the lines not nearly as "fat" as those generated by your set's DCAM mode.

The "dimmer" lines are just better for getting static convergence tight. And there's more of them. Allows you to see that lining up DCAM lines exactly doesn't always mean your convergence will be tight. That's the nice thing about having the AVIA croshatch being displayed while in DCAM mode.

To do this, have your set 's DVD input selected before entering DCAM. Once in DCAM, press MENU on your F59 remote to cycle thru the various display modes. Will change from "normal" (white grid) to "isolated color" (whichever color you select from the remote--defaults to red--looks like yellow crosshatch) to "normal" grid over input source, then 2 different movable "crosshair" modes over program material. The grid over input source works well for geometry fixes. The 2 "crosshair" modes work great for targeting specific points of the input source. 1st crosshair has white cross with the selected color surrounding it (looks like the 9 pt manual MF crosshairs). 2nd one simply omits the white cross. 2nd one helps to line up stuff that the white cross might cover up. Found this most helpful when working on the extreme edges. While in DCAM mode with the input source displayed (DVD, for example) you can selsect different chapters/images just as you normally would.

Unfortunately, the only way to switch from say, DVD input to HD/cable/sat input, is to write DCAM info, exit, turn off set, turn it back on after 20-30 seconds (that's what I do, anyway) and select the other input you wish to use. Then re-enter DCAM and proceed as before.

My set's internal DCAM grid looks "off"in terms of convergence in several spots when viewing it. But convergence for all normal program material is dead-on.

Keep track of the eeprom when the DCU gets replaced, make sure it gets transfered over from old to new if it is contained on the DCU board being replaced.

Remember, it contains all the settings for conv on YOUR particular unit.


Mr Bob

Schematic from the service manual shows eeprom on the DCU board.... God I hope its plugged into a socket on the board and NOT soldered. :eek:

Duh! Great idea (Didn't even think to look). I've also set the DVR to record the HDNET test patterns on Sun. at 6:50 a.m. It'll be interesting to at least see them.

The HDNet test pattern is great for geometry and linearity and possibly even image placement, but don't trust it for overscan. If you take it all the way in to where you can see its edges, the numbers have stopped at the edge of the image, several steps before they have hitting zero.

The circle is great for making sure your HD image shaping is correct, tho. Very few - only the most expensive - HD pattern gen'rs contain circles, because their programs are so hard to write, in terms of CG pattern generation.


Mr Bob

My set's internal DCAM grid looks "off"in terms of convergence in several spots when viewing it. But convergence for all normal program material is dead-on.


Feel free to share here what I replied to you by email Friday, in terms of this issue, which you wrote me about last week.


Mr Bob

Duh! Great idea (Didn't even think to look). I've also set the DVR to record the HDNET test patterns on Sun. at 6:50 a.m. It'll be interesting to at least see them.

Haven't seen HDNET's. Did have INHD's (Comcast version of HDNET) INHD Tune-Up on my DVR for quite a while. Handled all the basics---contrast, brightness, color/tint, overscan, convergence/geo crosshatch and 5.1 audio setup. The crosshatch on that was brighter than Avia's 50 IRE, but surely more usefull than the internal DCAM crosshatch.

Ok. First post, although I've been reading the Hitachi threads with vigor and I'm looking at it or one of the panny/pio plasmas.

I'd prefer to get the Hitachi for a few reasons, but I have a worry. The room in which I'd put the hitachi is fairly space limited. The front of my surround system has 2 large floor speakers, which are unshielded. As it is I can have probably less than a foot on each side clearance between what would be the 51" Hitachi and the speakers.

Will a foot or less be enough to keep the Hitachi safe? I can't really open up much more space than that. The speakers would be closest to the "guts" of the tv being on the floor and 1ft or so away from the tv itself.