I am not an electrical engineer, so please tell me how the RDR-VXD655 can process the signal in this way if it's unplugged from an AC outlet. Solar power? Hamsters on a treadmill? :) I would think that scaling an HD signal would be a fairly resource-intensive task.

I am not an electrical engineer, so please tell me how the RDR-VXD655 can process the signal in this way if it's unplugged from an AC outlet. Solar power? Hamsters on a treadmill? :) I would think that scaling an HD signal would be a fairly resource-intensive task.

It sounds like it would be passive and not active, thus requiring no power. In other words, what goes in would be exactly what goes out, with no processing at all. This could be limited to using just the s-video or composite video inputs and corresponding (identical) outputs.

When the unit is powered up, it may be capable of upconversion to an HDMI output.

That said, I am am not personally familiar with the unit, but I don't see how it could be much different than I just described.

Someone with actual experience, feel free to correct what I have said here.

The OP asked about a DVDR with an ATSC tuner that passes the TUNER'S signal in HD, not what it passes from its inputs

If the RDR-VXD655 is turned off then I don't see how it can down-rez/up-rez the signal. It takes juice to perform that task, right?

The RDR-VXD655 only has composite and S-VIDEO inputs. Since either component or HDMI inputs are required for HD, it is unable to input an HD signal from an external source. If only an SD signal is inputed, the DVD player doesn't need to downconvert the signal since it is already SD (no juice required).

Having said that, Sony Style says that it has a "Built-in HDTV Tuner." This may be Sony's way of saying that it can receive HD signals and then downconvert them to SD (most call this an SDTV tuner) or it may be a true HDTV tuner and output the native HD.

The RDR-VXD655 only has composite and S-VIDEO inputs. Since either component or HDMI inputs are required for HD, it is unable to input an HD signal from an external source....Not correct. The RDR-VXD655 can accept and demodulate HD signals via its RF input if they are present in the over-the-air or cable TV signal. This is done by the integrated ATSC/QAM tuner. So I am back to my original question. The only answer I can think of is that the unit needs to be plugged in -- even though it may be powered off -- so it has access to a minimum amount of stand-by power to perform the down-rezing and up-rezing of the signal that is passing through.

Not correct. The RDR-VXD655 can accept and demodulate HD signals via its RF input if they are present in the over-the-air or cable TV signal. This is done by the integrated ATSC/QAM tuner. So I am back to my original question. The only answer I can think of is that the unit needs to be plugged in -- even though it may be powered off -- so it has access to a minimum amount of stand-by power to perform the down-rezing and up-rezing of the signal that is passing through.

actually he is correct. From what I see you guys are talking about different things.

Even in your statement you say the signal is processed by the ATSC/QAM tuner. The unit will need power for those, even without any conversions.

Did you read my original question, bobbyslav? It was as follows:

It says the following about the RDR-VXD655 on Sony's Web site:

"Sony Set Top Box Pass Through: Allows for viewing of programming from Cable Set Top Box or Satellite Receiver even when the recorder is powered off through the line input. You can see TV programs of the connected Cable Set Top Box or Satellite Receiver, regardless if the recorder is powered on or not."

If, as Sony states, the RDR-VXD655 can pass-through a signal from a cable or STB, and since we have already established that it first down-rezs and then uprezs HD signals coming from such sources, then how is it that the unit can be turned off and still do this? If, as you say (and I agree), it takes juice to perform those tasks, then where does the power come from, if not from drawing on the current available in stand-by mode? That was my whole point. Since it doesn't say the RDR-VXD655 can be unplugged, just "powered off" that was my best guess as to how it does this. The alternate explanation may be that because the signal from the cable or STB is entering the RDR-VXD655 through the line input (I missed that part in Sony's explanation) and not the RF input, that particular signal path simply passes 480i with no processing whatsover -- requiring no power to do so. I think that has to the answer. Anyone else care to venture an informed opinion?

All DVDRs have some power when off, that's why the power button usually says On/Standby. They need a little power to maintain the laser at a bias level so it can be ready for burning quickly. My Philips 3575 also has an "active" RF passthru, which boosts the incoming coax signal but only if it's plugged in (doesn't have to be on).

So, there's a lot of stuff going on in DVDRs even when the power's off.

Set top box pass through does not mean HD or SD pass through. What Sony's claims mean is that signals fed through the unit's inputs can be related to the monitor through it's outputs even when the unit is off. Since the unit only has composite and S-video inputs, there's no place for HD in the chain at all, because those connections do not support HD signals.

What the pass through means is that its inputs and outputs have an independant connection, which bypasses any internal processing, and allows to be used as a simple bridge between the cable box and the TV, weather the recorder is on or off.

The whole matter is completely unrelated to HD handling.

Please see my edited post immediately above, which I was working on while you posted. It sounds like my "alternate" explanation at the end of my post above coincides with what you are saying.

Please see my edited post immediately above, which I was working on while you posted. It sounds like my "alternate" explanation at the end of my post above coincides with what you are saying.

:)yup

Did you read my original question, bobbyslav? that because the signal from the cable or STB is entering the RDR-VXD655 through the line input (I missed that part in Sony's explanation) and not the RF input, that particular signal path simply passes 480i with no processing whatsover -- requiring no power to do so.

Using the RF output from a Cable or Sat box to the input of the Sony is not going to be a digital or HD signal either. The only way you are going to have a digital signal is with an antenna or cable that provides QAM channels connected to the RF input. That signal will only be SD not HD even to your display device. I think we will have to wait until the spring of 08 or later before we see any DVDR's that pass the an HD signal to a display.

For the LSI Domino 3 used in the Panasonic DMR-EZ17,27,37,47 recorders, it's has to do with the number of video output ports. The chip can be configured to have two SD outputs (one analog and one digital) or one HD digital output.

The problem with using one digital HD output, is that you still have to send SD to the S-Video and composite outputs. This would require an external HD to SD scaler chip and video D/A chip.

Since Panasonic has developed an HDMI chip with built-in SD to HD scaling, it's a much easier and less expensive design to use the two SD outputs. One goes to the analog S-Video and composite outputs and the other goes to the HDMI chip...

Ron

Would it be a cheap enough solution to use two Domino 3 chips, one for the two SD outputs and one for the HD output? Even if the unit would not support dual tuner capability (have them controlled the same), it still would not seem too much a challenge to offer dual tuner capabilities. Unless Panasonic's HDMI chip is just that much less expensive than one of the Domino 3 chips. Just a pointless random thought...

I am just considering the Panasonic DMR-EZ27 or 47 and wonder if even having the ATSC HD output is an issue? Any HD set I buy would likely have its own ATSC tuner. All my other sets are SD tube sets that I plan to let live out their lives.

Essentially, what would be the big advantage in waiting for the Domino 5 chipsets?

Thanks

The only reason I can see, is if you have a HDTV w/o a built in digital tuner. For me, I have a HDTV w/built in tuner, and never watch live TV through my Panny DVDR. I just use it to record DVD's, and switch to the TV's tuner to watch live TV.

Could someone add "Magnavox H2080MW8" to the Wiki? I don't have an account and don't have experience.

The DVR has NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner, no VCR, no up scale, 80GB, available in Oct '07, price of $200 and here is its manual and thread:

http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/H2080MW8.pdf

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920073

The only reason I can see, is if you have a HDTV w/o a built in digital tuner. For me, I have a HDTV w/built in tuner, and never watch live TV through my Panny DVDR. I just use it to record DVD's, and switch to the TV's tuner to watch live TV.

That would be my guess. It may be hard to predict what the advantages could be, especially for someone like me that cannot quantify how things like a faster memory bus or internal HDMI converter affects the user experience. I could imagine (or hope for) an increase in channel tuning time and a lower price tag for an all in one integrated chip.

Also, what is the value of an upconverting DVD player? Are these converters typically that much better than what is found natively in HD TV sets? As I understand it, most HD TVs will upconvert any signal to the display's native resolution anyway. Is it just so one can use the digital HDMI interface? I guess I could compare this to my standard 480p DVD player through component connection vs the HDMI on the upconverted stream. I'm confident that I will not be able to see a difference.

Cuc tu "I'm confident that I will not be able to see a difference."

That's what I have found, no difference.

If the new chip would give faster tuning, that would be a definite plus. The surfing on any DVDR w/digital tuner, is woefully slow. Hence I never watch live TV through them.

Despite what Sony's literature implies, the RDRVXD655 does not pass through the cable signal, HD or otherwise, when it is powered off. No power = no signal of any type whatsoever. I have verified this today with both Crutchfield (tech notes on the unit) and Sony, despite what the literature implies or states to the contrary. We have no desire to have our TV signals passing through the downconversion/upconversion process every time we watch, much less waste power having the recorder on all the time, and so are considering using a splitter arrangement on the incoming coax cable (we have no cable box), with one branch going to the recorder and one to the TV, and with HDMI cabling only between the recorder and the TV. When we don't need to record or watch a DVD or VHS tape, we'll simply leave the recorder powered off, and receive the cable signal direct to the TV's tuners (TV is Sony KDL40V3000) via the coax input. When we do need the recorder, we'll power it on (and switch the TV's source button from TV to HDMI).

Sony has verified that this arrangement should work. We'll see - haven't received the recorder yet (it's on backorder at Crutchfield). May still cancel and opt to wait and see if the next generation overcomes what we consider a design defect, and have so advised Sony, adding our voice to the many, including on this forum.

But what was my initial question? Oh yeah -- has anyone tried this splitter arrangement? No one at Sony or Crutchfield seems to be concerned about degradation of signal with only the one split.....and I am hoping there will be no other issues with this hookup arrangement.

Despite what Sony's literature implies, the RDRVXD655 does not pass through the cable signal, HD or otherwise, when it is powered off. No power = no signal of any type whatsoever. I have verified this today with both Crutchfield (tech notes on the unit) and Sony, despite what the literature implies or states to the contrary. We have no desire to have our TV signals passing through the downconversion/upconversion process every time we watch, much less waste power having the recorder on all the time, and so are considering using a splitter arrangement on the incoming coax cable (we have no cable box), with one branch going to the recorder and one to the TV, and with HDMI cabling only between the recorder and the TV. When we don't need to record or watch a DVD or VHS tape, we'll simply leave the recorder powered off, and receive the cable signal direct to the TV's tuners (TV is Sony KDL40V3000) via the coax input. When we do need the recorder, we'll power it on (and switch the TV's source button from TV to HDMI).

I find this very odd. Most DVD recorders with tuners pass through the cable signal when off (actually, on standby), even the new digital ones. For example, my Panasonic EZ-17 passes through the cable signal, and I have it connected in series with my TV.

I know digital HD signals pass through DVD recorders, because I have both a Panasonic E-500 and Pioneer 640 connected in series (cable signal passes through each) with my Mitsubishi HDTV. The HD signal passes through while both recorders are off.

I agree, I've never seen a VCR or DVDR which did not pass through the RF, with the unit off. Even the Philips 3575 passes through the RF when off, and boosts the signal to boot. I would consider this a flaw if the Sony required the unit to be on, and would look into another DVDR if this were so.
Oh and on the splitter arrangement, it sounds like a good workaround, if indeed the Sony does not have passthru RF while off.

Extremely odd is right, rgazzara. Even our older Samsung VCR passes through when off. But call Crutchfield sales and ask about the technical notes on this unit, and that's what you'll find. The other thing is, it seems this unit does not pass through any HD at all (all HD is downconverted to SD). So I would definitely not want to watch TV through this box anyway, since we do see a few HD broadcasts via the five local digital channels we receive at no extra charge over coax. It would appear that Sony assumed anyone without a cable box or satellite receiver box, who therefore needed this recorder with its tuners, would not be seeing any HD shows anyway. Wrong.

Not to argue the point, but are you sure that you and Cruchfield are discussing the same issue? For example, if Crutchfield (and Sony) thought you were asking about HD signal passing through the AV output connectors (composite, S-video, or Component), then I would agree with them because no current DVD recorder does this. Plus in order to get a signal out of these connectors, the recorder must be on.

These AV outputs do not pass an HD signal because the recorder has to down convert the HD to SD in order to record on a DVD, and so the AV outputs see this down converted signal.

Perhaps this is what the Crutchfield and Sony reps are talking about. That would make sense.

anyone heard when the next generation of DVD recorders are going to be released?

I'm encouraged by the better digital tuner chip in the recent coupon boxes, specifically the LG chip (in the Insignia, and Zenith).

Read it and weep, nothing much different announced, only worse in some cases.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=970168

thanks for the link, I feel "up to speed" now.

Someone posted a link around here about a new Philips, a 3576.

Someone posted a link around here about a new Philips, a 3576.

There is a duscussion about the new Philips model here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1018989