1. Divide Feature- If you record 3 programs on different channels say from 7PM to 10 PM at XP (best record mode)- you must be able to divide these 1 hour programs for one hour burning to DVD AT High Speed no loss! An HDD recorder MUST have this- Pioneer and panasonic do.

2. Flex record- This is essential. You record at 1 hour and 30 minutes or 1 hour and 10 minutes- The recorder records on the disc the very best video quality. Panasonic and Pioneer do.

3. Chase Play- You record and come back 30 minutes later and watch the beginning for 30 minutes and if you want pause- get snacks, make love etc - then continue at same spot on the video. Pioneer and Panasonic have this.

4. Friendly user interface on the menu. This is where LG, Polaroid, RCA, Liteon HDD Recorders fail miserably- They are so difficult for anyone except an expert. Pioneer and Panasonic are easy - They are light years ahead of the others.

5. Multi Record Discs- Will record any type disc including DVD-RAM- Only the 2006 Pannys and Pioneer will do this except LG claims it also as well as Toshiba- BUT those two do not have all of the above.

Must have HDTV Tuner as well
Joe

Agreed, must have an ATSC/QAM tuner to allow recording of "digital" OTA or clear digital cable broadcasts (note that this doesn not necessarily mean "HD" since not all digital broadcasts are HD and HD broadcasts are downrez'd to SD to allow them to be recorded on a standard DVD anyway - so an "HDTV" tuner is a misnomer).

Also, the recorder should have different manually discrete timed recording modes (1.5 HR, 2.5 HR, 3 HR, 3.5 HR ala Pioneer) in addition to FR mode as implemented by Panny.

Independent selection of resolution (D1, half D1, etc.) for a given avg bitrate would be nice.

Variable audio input recording levels with VU meters (my old Panny DMR-E10 did this).

Selectable digital audio bitrates and modes (PCM, AC3, MP2).

All standard/dual layer DVD and CD media supported.

Dual optical disc drives to allow straight disc-to-disc duplication.

TVGOS or similar - I know many people dislike this system, but it works great for me as implemented in the Panny EH75V, probably because I solely use standard analog cable and OTA analog/digital for recording.

USB and flash media ports to allow transfer of audio, still, and video content to all types of flash and HDD media (and multiple formats) plus HDD storage expandability.

Divx (and/or other flavors of mp4) RECORDING and playback with selectable quality settings.

HD recording to standard DVD using the WMV9-HD codec.

Audio CD (both standard and mp3/wma and Video CD/SVCD recording would be cool. Why? - would rather record kids shows to VCD - because the kids don't really care that much about visual quality and who cares if a CD ultimately gets destroyed (i.e., they're still cheaper than the cheapest DVD's).

Mini-LCD, touchscreen display to simplify the user interface and provide monitoring for editing/duplicating purposes without tying up the main monitor.

More sophisticated/creative authoring and menu creation options with chapter thumbnails.

CableCard
The cable company encodes everything but the basics.
And they send the basics out in encoded digital.

Agreed, must have an ATSC/QAM tuner to allow recording of "digital" OTA or clear digital cable broadcasts (note that this doesn not necessarily mean "HD" since not all digital broadcasts are HD and HD broadcasts are downrez'd to SD to allow them to be recorded on a standard DVD anyway - so an "HDTV" tuner is a misnomer).

Also, the recorder should have different manually discrete timed recording modes (1.5 HR, 2.5 HR, 3 HR, 3.5 HR ala Pioneer) in addition to FR mode as implemented by Panny.

Independent selection of resolution (D1, half D1, etc.) for a given avg bitrate would be nice.

Variable audio input recording levels with VU meters (my old Panny DMR-E10 did this).

Selectable digital audio bitrates and modes (PCM, AC3, MP2).

All standard/dual layer DVD and CD media supported.

Dual optical disc drives to allow straight disc-to-disc duplication.

TVGOS or similar - I know many people dislike this system, but it works great for me as implemented in the Panny EH75V, probably because I solely use standard analog cable and OTA analog/digital for recording.

USB and flash media ports to allow transfer of audio, still, and video content to all types of flash and HDD media (and multiple formats) plus HDD storage expandability.

Divx (and/or other flavors of mp4) RECORDING and playback with selectable quality settings.

HD recording to standard DVD using the WMV9-HD codec.

Audio CD (both standard and mp3/wma and Video CD/SVCD recording would be cool. Why? - would rather record kids shows to VCD - because the kids don't really care that much about visual quality and who cares if a CD ultimately gets destroyed (i.e., they're still cheaper than the cheapest DVD's).

Mini-LCD, touchscreen display to simplify the user interface and provide monitoring for editing/duplicating purposes without tying up the main monitor.

More sophisticated/creative authoring and menu creation options with chapter thumbnails.
What good will the ATSC/QAM Tuner be if all of the channels will be set to copy once? Or Copy never. This is the way of the future, already seeing it on HBO and TNT HD. The rest are yet to come. This would make the tuner virtually unusable unless it would be to HDD only. So this is my guess why DVD recorders with HDDs are vanishing. The DVR and the DVD Recorder without H-D will be all that is left. Just an opinion. What use would there be for paying for a H-D in the DVD Recorder when you couldn't copy any show you recorded to the hard drive to DVD? Food for thought.

Copy-once programs can also be recorded to CPRM-compliant discs, such as DVD-RAM.

Copy-once programs can also be recorded to CPRM-compliant discs, such as DVD-RAM.
Agreed, but is it really worth all the effort to get it to a DVD?

What good would an ATSC tuner be? Well for one thing, it will be required if you want to record any OTA programming after mid-2009 when analog shuts down and is required by law anyway on anything sold in the US after Mar 2007 - so there is not much point debating the merit of the feature.

AFA COPY ONCE/NEVER flags are concerned - I doubt the copy once/copy never flags will be applicable to down rez'd content recordings - those will likely be reserved for inhibiting bit-for-bit HD copies. There should be plenty of mundane sitcom like content provided in the clear to facilitate time shifting.

I don't record OTA but I do have advice for those that have NTSC tuners in DVD recorders and want to record OTA post 2009.

Just use one of those new fandangled ATSC tuner gizmos that have been mandated and underwritten by the gov't. The same mandated ATSC tuner that will work with your NTSC tuner television will also work with your NTSC tuner DVD recorder.

1. Divide Feature- If you record 3 programs on different channels say from 7PM to 10 PM at XP (best record mode)- you must be able to divide these 1 hour programs for one hour burning to DVD AT High Speed no loss! An HDD recorder MUST have this- Pioneer and panasonic do.

2. Flex record- This is essential. You record at 1 hour and 30 minutes or 1 hour and 10 minutes- The recorder records on the disc the very best video quality. Panasonic and Pioneer do.

3. Chase Play- You record and come back 30 minutes later and watch the beginning for 30 minutes and if you want pause- get snacks, make love etc - then continue at same spot on the video. Pioneer and Panasonic have this.

4. Friendly user interface on the menu. This is where LG, Polaroid, RCA, Liteon HDD Recorders fail miserably- They are so difficult for anyone except an expert. Pioneer and Panasonic are easy - They are light years ahead of the others.

5. Multi Record Discs- Will record any type disc including DVD-RAM- Only the 2006 Pannys and Pioneer will do this except LG claims it also as well as Toshiba- BUT those two do not have all of the above.

HG - I love your posts but I think you may be slipping a bit. I realize they are meant to be provocative but please do your research. :)

Assuming this was not intended to be a wish list and more of a Panasonic/Pioneer promotion (as I read it) I have the following to offer.

Here's my response to your numbered points:

1. Splitting a recording is no big deal and is not limited to the domain of Panasonic and Pioneer. Many if not most/all HDD recorders offer this. The only one I can think of that does not is Sony. I don't get your point about mentioning the two "P's" (Panasonic/Pioneer) in an exclusive sense.

2. Flex record is not limited to Panasonic or Pioneer. Plus there are other recorders that offer more manual bit rate settings plus flex recording. Again I don't get the point of mentioning the two "P's" in an exclusive sense.

3. Chase play on a HDD recorder is no big deal. Yet when I read your post I get the impression you think this feature is limited to just Panasonic and Pioneer - again in an exclusive sense.

4. Friendly menus? I'm not sure what that means. Some of the recorders you mention have very simple and friendly menus. Almost too friendly because they are simple machines. There are others that have more complex user menus than then two "P's" but offer a lot more features. Not quite sure if I track with you on this one.

More complex features = more complex user interface. For example. Microsoft Word = complex. Microsoft Notepad = simple. I'd rate your two "P's" as Microsoft Works.

5. Recording formats? I guess. In my opinion this is probably your best point. I prefer to stick with one "write once" format and one "rewritable" format. But this is only a personal opinion. I agree DL may be an advantage.

But that is about it.

I don't record OTA but I do have advice for those that have NTSC tuners in DVD recorders and want to record OTA post 2009.

Just use one of those new fandangled ATSC tuner gizmos that have been mandated and underwritten by the gov't. The same mandated ATSC tuner that will work with your NTSC tuner television will also work with your NTSC tuner DVD recorder.

For what its worth...most HDTVs already have built in ATSC tuners..so for OTA-HD recording I suppose its just composite or s-vid out to the DVD recorder (480i ofcourse) and your in business.

I have not done any OTA-HD recording but I have thought alot about it lately and might need to play around with it. I suspect the downrezd PQ should be similar to what were used to with our recorders. I will let ya Know.

Myself I'm wishing for the "Commercial Advance" system that automatically cuts the commercials out for you & with menu settings for ON, OFF, Hide On Playback, Automatic Delete & Manual Delete :eek:

Also how about A true Jog/ Shuttle dial for editing on the unit & on the remote & what about Audio & Video Dubbing like VCRs used to have?

And of course :) At Least give us 5.1 Audio Recording & HDMI Inputs (Good Luck On That Though)

And maybe a Fade In & Fade Out to Black Circuit too & I could go on & on ;)

1. Ideally they should all have a Flex Record mode option similar to the Pioneer MN-modes. Essentially the <u>recording quality should be independent of the recording duration!</u>. Panasonic's FR mode is limited in some ways by linking the two.

2. They should all support DVD-RW(VR) mode! They should all support DVD-RW(VR) mode! They should all support DVD-RW(VR) mode! They should all support DVD-RW(VR) mode! They should all support DVD-RW(VR) mode!


More features after I sleep on this topic ;-)

If it has a digital tuner then it should record the digital signal such that playback will be the same as it was live. I'm not sure why, but it seems that downrezing HD content is considered perfectly acceptable. Maybe it's the emphasis on "DVD" of DVD Recorder for which there is no HD solution. And Greed Protection may prevent recording HD content anyway.

HG - I love your posts but I think you may be slipping a bit. I realize they are meant to be provocative but please do your research. :)

Assuming this was not intended to be a wish list and more of a Panasonic/Pioneer promotion (as I read it) I have the following to offer.

Here's my response to your numbered points:

1. Splitting a recording is no big deal and is not limited to the domain of Panasonic and Pioneer. Many if not most/all HDD recorders offer this. The only one I can think of that does not is Sony. I don't get your point about mentioning the two "P's" (Panasonic/Pioneer) in an exclusive sense.

2. Flex record is not limited to Panasonic or Pioneer. Plus there are other recorders that offer more manual bit rate settings plus flex recording. Again I don't get the point of mentioning the two "P's" in an exclusive sense.

3. Chase play on a HDD recorder is no big deal. Yet when I read your post I get the impression you think this feature is limited to just Panasonic and Pioneer - again in an exclusive sense.

4. Friendly menus? I'm not sure what that means. Some of the recorders you mention have very simple and friendly menus. Almost too friendly because they are simple machines. There are others that have more complex user menus than then two "P's" but offer a lot more features. Not quite sure if I track with you on this one.

More complex features = more complex user interface. For example. Microsoft Word = complex. Microsoft Notepad = simple. I'd rate your two "P's" as Microsoft Works.

5. Recording formats? I guess. In my opinion this is probably your best point. I prefer to stick with one "write once" format and one "rewritable" format. But this is only a personal opinion. I agree DL may be an advantage.

But that is about it.
Agreed on all counts. the posts are losing credibility to me. Also in the post HG states...
"5. Multi Record Discs- Will record any type disc including DVD-RAM- Only the 2006 Pannys and Pioneer will do this except LG claims it also as well as Toshiba- BUT those two do not have all of the above.

I have thre Toshibas and NOWHERE does it make any such claim. They will record Ram but claim nothing more than DVD-R DVD-RW and DVD-RAM.
I use -r only even in my Sonys (they do accept + or -) DL is a nice idea but with the cost of the discs i could use several standard discs... until the price comes down on the media is it not a consideration for me. IMHO
It;s really sad that you will not pick up a Toshiba or Sony and give it a spin, I really think you are not aware of what you are misssing.

HG, did you ever get the Toshiba you mentioned getting to test? You mentioned this in one of your other posts. Toshiba should be included before claims for the brand are made. Don't you think. Maybe best left unsaid? I too agree that you are Slipping, on credibility.

What good would an ATSC tuner be? Well for one thing, it will be required if you want to record any OTA programming after mid-2009 when analog shuts down and is required by law anyway on anything sold in the US after Mar 2007 - so there is not much point debating the merit of the feature.

AFA COPY ONCE/NEVER flags are concerned - I doubt the copy once/copy never flags will be applicable to down rez'd content recordings - those will likely be reserved for inhibiting bit-for-bit HD copies. There should be plenty of mundane sitcom like content provided in the clear to facilitate time shifting.
I for one can not recieve any over the air where I am located without a 30ft tower. From the stats that I have seen most people have cable/dish.

don't forget component inputs!

Just use one of those new fandangled ATSC tuner gizmos that have been mandated and underwritten by the gov't. The same mandated ATSC tuner that will work with your NTSC tuner television will also work with your NTSC tuner DVD recorder.
What are the chances that any stand alone tuner will be able to be controlled by the DVDr? Any external tuner solution would make scheduled recording problematic.

This will come as no surprise to anyone who has read my posts about the Philips.

1- Excellent Recording quality.

2- Chase Play of In Progress Timer Recordings.

3- Divide Title function.

4- Frame accurate editing capabilities.

5- Support all DVD Formats.

6- Reasonable price.

When I am ready to purchase my next HDD-DVDR, a major major consideration will be the build quality of the remote. I will put special emphasis on the quality of the buttons I use the most (FF & FR and commercial skip). Without a fully functioning remote any DVDR is useless. It amazes me at how they utterly skimp on remote build quality. After ony 2 years of use, the remote buttons on my E-85 feel like mush and I have to just about stomp on them to get it to FF or commercial skip.

After ony 2 years of use, the remote buttons on my E-85 feel like mush

I haven't used my E85's original remote since I bought a Harmony remote about a year ago, so it's still in pretty good shape. :D

Also how about A true Jog/ Shuttle dial for editing on the unit & on the remote & what about Audio & Video Dubbing like VCRs used to have?



My Hitachi VCR has a jog/shuttle on the remote. Too bad I never use the VCR anymore. It remains my favorite remote.

I second the Jog/ Shuttle dial on the remote....
and would also like a fully implimented firewire I/O.

Elimination of the slight pause at edit points or maybe
an optional built-in quick fade to/from black at edit points.

RF remote instead of the IR.

Audio level indicators and level adjust knobs.

First play or menu option.

Easily upgradable hard drive.

Many good ideas here. Are the manufacturers listening? I can add some myself that have not been mentioned yet. How about guaranteed widescreen support, including automatic setting if the flag is present in the video stream, and the ability to manually override or set that flag in the event it's absent? I would like a wireless keyboard for text entry, so no more of the telephone-style keypad entry. I would also really like a complete, CORRECT, and easy to understand manual. The ability to dub (copy?) from the HD to the HD in a single machine would be very useful, and would allow me to skip the copy to a -RAM then back to the hard drive. A lossless copy from any dvd to the hard drive would be useful. I would like frame-accurate editing. As was stated earlier, an upgradable hard drive would be very nice to have too.

I'm more pragmatic so my next HDD recorder needs to at least do what my current one does. Which is the following:

- allows me to copy a title on the HDD to the HDD.

- gives me the ability to copy a chapter of a title on the HDD to the HDD and save it as a new title on the HDD.

- let's me merge titles on the HDD with no transfer to disc. By the way how does anybody merge titles using the disc swapping work around on recorders that do not merge titles on the HDD if the resulting title is bigger that 4.7GB?

- allows me to copy chapters from various titles on the HDD and merge them together as one new title on the HDD.

- let's me set custom chapter thumbnails.

- allows me to high speed dub a Video Mode recording to the HDD from a -R.

- let's me high speed dub VR mode video recorded by different brands of recorders onto the HDD. And then let's me merge them together on the HDD.

- gives me the ability to save playlists and copylists to the HDD for subsequent editing.

- gives me the ability to merge Video Mode recordings that were high speed dubbed to the HDD with existing recordings on the HDD and also with VR mode recordings that were high speed dubbed from DVD Ram to the HDD that was originally recorded on another brand DVD recorder. I want to be able to merge all three together on the HDD. Or maybe just a chapter from each together as a new title.

- give me the ability to manually set recording bit rates by 2/10ths of a mps.

- alows me to hit the record button and then lets me set the stop recording time down to the minute.

- has HDMI output

- has an IR blaster so I can set up timer recordings and the DVD recorder will control my cable box. My current DVD recorder can control 85 different brands of cable/satellite/STB's and has over 300 different IR codes.

- Gives me a DV input for transfer from my camcorder.

- allows me to set the widescreen flag when recording. Also gives me the ability to change the flag later if I choose to.

That's it off the top of my head. I'll post more later if something else comes to mind. Like I said my current recorder does all of the above and a lot more.

My next one will have to at least do the same.

After ony 2 years of use, the remote buttons on my E-85 feel like mush and I have to just about stomp on them to get it to FF or commercial skip.Have you thought about opening up the remote and cleaning the contact pads? I don't know anything about the E-85 remote but other remotes that I've had basically have a rubber sheet with the buttons which lies on top of a printed circuit board with the contacts. Cleaning is fairly simple...

I'm more pragmatic so my next HDD recorder needs to at least do what my current one does. Which is the following:

- allows me to copy a title on the HDD to the HDD.

- gives me the ability to copy a chapter of a title on the HDD to the HDD and save it as a new title on the HDD.

- let's me merge titles on the HDD with no transfer to disc. By the way how does anybody merge titles using the disc swapping work around on recorders that do not merge titles on the HDD if the resulting title is bigger that 4.7GB?

- allows me to copy chapters from various titles on the HDD and merge them together as one new title on the HDD.

- let's me set custom chapter thumbnails.

- allows me to high speed dub a Video Mode recording to the HDD from a -R.

- let's me high speed dub VR mode video recorded by different brands of recorders onto the HDD. And then let's me merge them together on the HDD.

- gives me the ability to save playlists and copylists to the HDD for subsequent editing.

- gives me the ability to merge Video Mode recordings that were high speed dubbed to the HDD with existing recordings on the HDD and also with VR mode recordings that were high speed dubbed from DVD Ram to the HDD that was originally recorded on another brand DVD recorder. I want to be able to merge all three together on the HDD. Or maybe just a chapter from each together as a new title.

- give me the ability to manually set recording bit rates by 2/10ths of a mps.

- alows me to hit the record button and then lets me set the stop recording time down to the minute.

- has HDMI output

- has an IR blaster so I can set up timer recordings and the DVD recorder will control my cable box. My current DVD recorder can control 85 different brands of cable/satellite/STB's and has over 300 different IR codes.

- Gives me a DV input for transfer from my camcorder.

- allows me to set the widescreen flag when recording. Also gives me the ability to change the flag later if I choose to.

That's it off the top of my head. I'll post more later if something else comes to mind. Like I said my current recorder does all of the above and a lot more.

My next one will have to at least do the same.

Which recorder is that? Your HTPC?

Which recorder is that? Your HTPC?

The features I listed above are from my Toshiba RD-KX50. Any of the Toshiba XS series also have the same features. But only certain models of the XS series have HDMI.

Also I forgot to list that many of the editing features available on the HDD are also available on DVD-Ram. Merging titles/chapters, title/chapter copy on disc, etc.

Using a separate ATSC to NTSC tuner/converter will just give you analog or at best SD recording capability, not true digital to digital recording. But then what is the point if you have a HDTV unless it is just a matter of making use of an old SD DVD recorder.

Anyway, one thing I want on any new DVD recorder (HD or SD) is digital audio input that will record DD 5.1 or 2.0, whichever is on the program. And of course the HD-DVD recorder should be able to play and burn either the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format (or ideally both, but good luck with that). That said, I don't think we will see standalone HD-DVD recorders here for at least a couple of years, if then. Hollywood may do their thing and buy enough politicians to kill this in the cradle.

Using a separate ATSC to NTSC tuner/converter will just give you analog or at best SD recording capability, not true digital to digital recording. But then what is the point if you have a HDTV unless it is just a matter of making use of an old SD DVD recorder.

Anyway, one thing I want on any new DVD recorder (HD or SD) is digital audio input that will record DD 5.1 or 2.0, whichever is on the program. And of course the HD-DVD recorder should be able to play and burn either the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format (or ideally both, but good luck with that). That said, I don't think we will see standalone HD-DVD recorders here for at least a couple of years, if then. Hollywood may do their thing and buy enough politicians to kill this in the cradle.
My guess is, we already have the best of the DVD recorder. I don't think we will see much more except with ATSC/QAM tuners. Actually what is the difference in the Tuner, Most people are on cable or SAT systems. Most of us will continue to use our STBs to record from. With all the Digital copyguard now showing on cable, it appears as though all the stations will follow suit. An internal tuner will be virtually useless unless you just want to record once to the HD and then watch and erase.

Many good ideas here. Are the manufacturers listening? I can add some myself that have not been mentioned yet. How about guaranteed widescreen support, including automatic setting if the flag is present in the video stream, and the ability to manually override or set that flag in the event it's absent? I would like a wireless keyboard for text entry, so no more of the telephone-style keypad entry. I would also really like a complete, CORRECT, and easy to understand manual. The ability to dub (copy?) from the HD to the HD in a single machine would be very useful, and would allow me to skip the copy to a -RAM then back to the hard drive. A lossless copy from any dvd to the hard drive would be useful. I would like frame-accurate editing. As was stated earlier, an upgradable hard drive would be very nice to have too. Most, if not all features you mention are all available on current models.

Most, if not all features you mention are all available on current models.
True enough, but no single machine has all of these features. I'm not really asking for anything new, just a set of features, all available today, in one reliable machine.

Many good ideas here. Are the manufacturers listening?
I would like a wireless keyboard for text entry, so no more of the telephone-style keypad entry.

To expand on editing, also nice would be the ability to wipe out the title name with one button (easy feature to implement), as oppposed to deleting it one character at a time. Also the option to turn on/off the automatic insertion of the time-stamp (or title-name) in a recorded title.

True enough, but no single machine has all of these features. I'm not really asking for anything new, just a set of features, all available today, in one reliable machine.

I may be wrong but I am almost positive that the Toshiba Rd-XS55 has all these features. Well. all except maybe the manual, it is esy to understand but not locate things in it. Other than that it looks like it is your machine.

Wireless keyboard?

HDD-to-HDD copy?

Wireless keyboard?

HDD-to-HDD copy?

Wireelss keyboard I am not aware of. But HDD to HDD copy is possible with Toshiba. You can copy a title on the same HDD with the XS series (KX too) or with the right model high speed dub from one unit to another. For example the XS55 has networking capabilities.

Wireelss keyboard I am not aware of. But HDD to HDD copy is possible with Toshiba. You can copy a title on the same HDD with the XS series (KX too) or with the right model high speed dub from one unit to another. For example the XS55 has networking capabilities.
You can connect a laptop or desktop to the RD-XS55 with a crossover cable or via a home network and use the laptop or desktop keyboard or (wireless keyboard) to edit/change title names. Plus a whole lot more!

Wireless keyboard?

HDD-to-HDD copy?
You can connect a laptop or desktop to the RD-XS55 with a crossover cable or via a home network and use the laptop or desktop keyboard or (wireless keyboard) to edit/change title names. Plus a whole lot more! You can program recordings via e-mail and stream video to any PC on your network. You can virtually operate the machine from any PC on your network!

and HDD-to-HDD copy? Absolutely! It is a menu selection.

You can connect a laptop or desktop to the RD-XS55 with a crossover cable or via a home network and use the laptop or desktop keyboard or (wireless keyboard) to edit/change title names. Plus a whole lot more!

and HDD-to-HDD copy? Absolutely!

I stand corrected on the keyboard! The HDD to HDD copy is well known as I mentioned.

Thanks!

I learn something new every day. :)

You can connect a laptop or desktop to the RD-XS55 with a crossover cable or via a home network and use the laptop or desktop keyboard or (wireless keyboard) to edit/change title names. Plus a whole lot more! You can program recordings via e-mail and stream video to any PC on your network. You can virtually operate the machine from any PC on your network!

and HDD-to-HDD copy? Absolutely! It is a menu selection.
Well that is nice. I didn't think it had those features. Except it's out of production isn't it?

How about widescreen support: both automatic and manual setting of the flag? Another one from Luke's list.

Well that is nice. I didn't think it had those features. Except it's out of production isn't it?

How about widescreen support: both automatic and manual setting of the flag? Another one from Luke's list.

It's a current model.

The logic design filter is not necessary. You can set the anamorphic flag as a recording option. You can also change it later from 16x9 to 4:3 or back again - this is a dubbing option.

This is not rocket science and should not be considered rocket science.

An option like this is not available on the most popular DVD recorder discussed in this forum (and the second most popular as well).

But that should not make a feature like this any less valuable.

Yes it's a valuable feature. And no it's not Rocket Science since I do it all the time on PC. But it would be nice to not have to burn twice.

So this all makes me wonder why everyone doesn't have or at least recommend this model . . . price perhaps?

To answer my own question, a quick Google popped it up for $600 at Crutchfield. So that's part of it. No DL support, that's not that big of a deal. None in stock though, "Ship Date Uncertain" is suspiciously like they're not making them any more. What I meant by out of production. Definitely a great unit, I know the Toshibas have good Picture Quality based on the one non-HDD model I have. And the well-known Toshiba menu flexibility helps. I have the impression that they're pretty picky on media though, both from the model I own and from reading around here and elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks for the enlightenment, I did not know that model had so much going for it. I just thought of it as "that network-capable model".

Yes it's a valuable feature. And no it's not Rocket Science since I do it all the time on PC. But it would be nice to not have to burn twice.

So this all makes me wonder why everyone doesn't have or at least recommend this model . . . price perhaps?
it took me alot of expensive purchases to find all this out, just trying to pass it on.
It is truly the best machine out there. I have and have had Sony Panasonic, Pioneer ...currently 8 recorders in all. I bought one Toshiba the last week in December and owning 6 machines bought two more Toshibas, everything else is back in the box! I wondered why there was not much good posted about the Toshibas and became curious to check it out for myself.
Glad I did. As far as price RD-XS35 $339 Bestbuy sold out twice in four months.
RD-XS55 $458 from B&H Photo... Actually they were about the same as the Panasonic DMR-EH55

To answer my own question, a quick Google popped it up for $600 at Crutchfield. So that's part of it. No DL support, that's not that big of a deal. None in stock though, "Ship Date Uncertain" is suspiciously like they're not making them any more. What I meant by out of production. Definitely a great unit, I know the Toshibas have good Picture Quality based on the one non-HDD model I have. And the well-known Toshiba menu flexibility helps. I have the impression that they're pretty picky on media though, both from the model I own and from reading around here and elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks for the enlightenment, I did not know that model had so much going for it. I just thought of it as "that network-capable model".

Not picky at all with media, Sony, TY, Maxell, TDK,Verbatim all working fine. Nothing rejected yet. Loves Panasonic DVD ram Discs and RAM recordings play on Pannys and Toshibas without problem.
Your welcome...
The best part of this forum is learning from all the information that is passed.

Yes it's a valuable feature. And no it's not Rocket Science since I do it all the time on PC. But it would be nice to not have to burn twice.

So this all makes me wonder why everyone doesn't have or at least recommend this model . . . price perhaps?

The most popular brand and model of what I would consider "top tier" discussed in this forum also happens to be the most reasonable. Do the math.

And as what is typical in life you get what you pay for.

Yes it's a valuable feature. And no it's not Rocket Science since I do it all the time on PC. But it would be nice to not have to burn twice.

So this all makes me wonder why everyone doesn't have or at least recommend this model . . . price perhaps?

bobkart - yes we all know that you have a PC. And know you know how to use it.

My question is why would you want to have to?

So the work around is to burn to a disc. Then copy it to your PC. Open it in ifoedit. Change the flag to 16x9. Save it. And then burn again to another disc. This is good?

You must have a lot of time on your hands.

This is an extremely valuable feature set on a DVD recorder.

Come on. Get real. :)

???

You seem to be agreeing with me in a way that makes it look like you're not.

You even quoted where I said "Yes it's a valuable feature" and "it would be nice to not have to burn twice".

I don't see what I said that causes you to be argumentative.

...also nice would be the ability to wipe out the title name with one button...The Pioneer 533/633 (and I assume the 640 as well) do this - you just hold down the "Clear" button for a second while editing the title and ZAP! - it's blank.

bobkart - yes we all know that you have a PC. And know you know how to use it.

My question is why would you want to have to?I think you misinterpreted Bob's "it's not rocket science" comment to mean that it's easy to do on a PC, but it was really directed at the DVD manufacturers as in "hey, why not implement this feature, it's not rocket science...".

I was definitely agreeing that it's not Rocket Science, and using the example of how easy it is to do (on a PC) as confirmation.

My reason for asking if the Toshiba RD-SX55 had that feature was not because it was difficult but because it was rare (and listed among Luke's "must haves").

???

You seem to be agreeing with me in a way that makes it look like you're not.

You even quoted where I said "Yes it's a valuable feature" and "it would be nice to not have to burn twice".

I don't see what I said that causes you to be argumentative.

I wasn't trying to argue. I was trying to control my laughter.

Having to take a freshly burned DVD from a DVD recorder, copy it to a PC, fix it, and then reburn it is not an acceptable practice in my mind. Unfortunately it is the only workaround for a lot of people. I choose not to be one of those people.

The fact that having to fix a DVD with a PC is actually promoted as acceptable is curious. I believe it has more to do with brand loyalty then it has to do with practicality. Nobody wants to have to go through this process to fix a DVD freshly burned from their prized DVD recorder. Especially when there are DVD recorder alternatives that address flag setting in their feature set.

For those that don't care about the flag - no big deal. For those that do care about it finding a DVD recorder that includes flag setting as part of its feature set is important. As more people move to 16x9 this will become more important.

Thus the chuckle. And occasional laughter when I read the easy 30 - 45 minute per disc PC solution. I have to chuckle. Sorry.

I wasn't trying to argue. I was trying to control my laughter.

Having to take a freshly burned DVD from a DVD recorder, copy it to a PC, fix it, and then reburn it is not an acceptable practice in my mind. Unfortunately it is the only workaround for a lot of people. I choose not to be one of those people.

The fact that having to fix a DVD with a PC is actually promoted as acceptable is curious. I believe it has more to do with brand loyalty then it has to do with practicality. Nobody wants to have to go through this process to fix a DVD freshly burned from their prized DVD recorder. Especially when there are DVD recorder alternatives that address flag setting in their feature set.

For those that don't care about the flag - no big deal. For those that do care about it finding a DVD recorder that includes flag setting as part of its feature set is important. As more people move to 16x9 this will become more important.

Thus the chuckle. And occasional laughter when I read the easy 30 - 45 minute per disc PC solution. I have to chuckle. Sorry.
I agree with not having to make the DVD twice which is why my Panasonic is back in the box and the other one is use for a player and the prime reason the Pioneer is no longer here. Just can;t see all that time to make a simple DVD.

it took me alot of expensive purchases to find all this out, just trying to pass it on.
It is truly the best machine out there. I have and have had Sony Panasonic, Pioneer ...currently 8 recorders in all. I bought one Toshiba the last week in December and owning 6 machines bought two more Toshibas, everything else is back in the box! I wondered why there was not much good posted about the Toshibas and became curious to check it out for myself.
Glad I did. As far as price RD-XS35 $339 Bestbuy sold out twice in four months.
RD-XS55 $458 from B&H Photo... Actually they were about the same as the Panasonic DMR-EH55

Okay, since we have two Toshiba power-users in nextoo and goots1, this is a good place to ask about some of the posts talking about getting false-positive copy-protection when they record cable/satellite TV shows of channels they are paying for. These models sound very interesting and I would add them to my future-purchase-list but the possibility that it may refuse to record from a cable channel worries me...

Wow. I had made a list of what I would call easily done features, and was completely unaware that the RD-XS55 would do all of my suggestions. I was deliberately NOT asking for anything outside of what I thought should be easily doable. Nothing like read my mind, or use 48x DVD media.

This DOES raise a second question though. If these features are available NOW, on one machine, why are they not on other models? Why have Panasonic and Sony, and etc. not implemented all these features?

Thanks for the info. My next purchase will definitely include a lot of research into these models.

What about the well written, easily understandable manual?

Okay, since we have two Toshiba power-users in nextoo and goots1, this is a good place to ask about some of the posts talking about getting false-positive copy-protection when they record cable/satellite TV shows of channels they are paying for. These models sound very interesting and I would add them to my future-purchase-list but the possibility that it may refuse to record from a cable channel worries me...

I have absolutely no problem with this. The Toshibas see exactly what my other usnits (Panasonic, Sony etc. see) They handle the Copy once exacly the same as the others. There is no false reporting or flagging as protected. I have three and all thre work fine. As far as a power user.... none here. The machines are just loaded with powerful features.

Wow. I had made a list of what I would call easily done features, and was completely unaware that the RD-XS55 would do all of my suggestions. I was deliberately NOT asking for anything outside of what I thought should be easily doable. Nothing like read my mind, or use 48x DVD media.

This DOES raise a second question though. If these features are available NOW, on one machine, why are they not on other models? Why have Panasonic and Sony, and etc. not implemented all these features?

Thanks for the info. My next purchase will definitely include a lot of research into these models.

What about the well written, easily understandable manual?
I asked myself the same questions many times. Why are't the other manufacturers doing the same things? No idea. The manual. You will have to be the judge of that. I find the manuals to be more of a 'read them through" type of manual than a "look-it-up" type of manual. Not great, not too bad either.

The manual for my Toshiba does a pretty good job but it has a lot to cover. It is well written and I have not found any errors. There are actually two manuals. The first is the owner's manual which is almost 200 pages long. The second is the installation manual which is over 50 pages long - yes over 50 pages. This machine is not for the faint at heart. It is very complicated. But I view this complexity as its major strength. It does significantly more than anything else out there - significantly more.

For example it will do a HDD -> HDD rate conversion dubbing while saving the original.

It does pick up CP flags. No doubt about it. And it may implement this better than other brands - which is not a good thing.

1. Divide Feature- If you record 3 programs on different channels say from 7PM to 10 PM at XP (best record mode)- you must be able to divide these 1 hour programs for one hour burning to DVD AT High Speed no loss! An HDD recorder MUST have this- Pioneer and panasonic do.

2. Flex record- This is essential. You record at 1 hour and 30 minutes or 1 hour and 10 minutes- The recorder records on the disc the very best video quality. Panasonic and Pioneer do.

3. Chase Play- You record and come back 30 minutes later and watch the beginning for 30 minutes and if you want pause- get snacks, make love etc - then continue at same spot on the video. Pioneer and Panasonic have this.

4. Friendly user interface on the menu. This is where LG, Polaroid, RCA, Liteon HDD Recorders fail miserably- They are so difficult for anyone except an expert. Pioneer and Panasonic are easy - They are light years ahead of the others.

5. Multi Record Discs- Will record any type disc including DVD-RAM- Only the 2006 Pannys and Pioneer will do this except LG claims it also as well as Toshiba- BUT those two do not have all of the above.


1) Toshiba doesn't have a true 'split' capability, but you can simply set chapter marks then dub a specific chapter to a DVD, or playlist to do multiple chapters. Sometimes I will dub a chapter back to the hard drive to delete the orig and save space.

2) Based upon what I have read here (i.e. the info about other recorders), Toshibas have the MOST flexibility here, since you can set the exact bit rate and sound quality for recordings, REGARDLESS of length. None of this goofy "make a recording EXACTLY this time length or less to make sure you get the highest quality recording" workarounds.

3) Toshiba definitely has this.

4) I don't know if you mean on the recorder, or on the created DVDs. On the recorder, the Toshiba has all of the useful options in contextual menus . For the DVDs, others have said that they think there's more flexibility, but I pretty much use the defaults.

5) DVD-R, DVD-RW, and DVD-RAM. Except for dual layer, isn't this all of the ones you care about? Toshiba does this.

Don't get me wrong, there are lots of things I would fix in the Toshiba.. but for your specific "necessary" features, the Toshibas seem to have them too.

1) Toshiba doesn't have a true 'split' capability, but you can simply set chapter marks then dub a specific chapter to a DVD, or playlist to do multiple chapters. Sometimes I will dub a chapter back to the hard drive to delete the orig and save space.



mattack -

Correct everything is done by manipulating chapters. So the term split is never specifically referenced. But if you want to split a title in half you don't have to dub it out to a disc. You can dub it directly to the HDD. Yes going the playlist route works best for this.

Also playlists can be saved in perpetuity but can also be converted (dubbed/copied) to "original" content at any time. Meaning you can use the playlist feature to say for example pull 30 minutes of clips out of a 3 hour original recording. Then dub the playlist (HDD -> HDD) and the resulting dub is "original" content. You can then delete the playlist and the 3 hour recording.

All of this is done on the HDD.

I never previously knew the Toshiba had HDD>HDD dubbing. That is such a cool feature.

I never previously knew the Toshiba had HDD>HDD dubbing. That is such a cool feature.

Yes it is great. For example, we all know playlists are not really original content in themselves. With my Toshiba I can save the playlist to my HDD. If I know I'm going to delete content that will affect the playlist I have the option of dubbing the playlist. This saves the playlist as "original" material. I can then go ahead and delete the content that would have affected the playlist. All this is done on the HDD. Here's a pic of the high speed dubbing options. In this case I am high speed dubbing a playlist to the HDD. The playlist will become "original" material. Trust me it is really high speed because it it HDD->HDD. It takes seconds.

Well the Toshiba is sounding more and more interesting to me too, but I have heard about potential file system problems on Panasonics and Toshibas that cause you to have to "format" (reset then file system) fairly regularly due to problems caused by fragmentation. Is this a thing of the past? Has Toshiba resolved the problem, or at least added a defrag feature that doesn't force you to lose all HDD recordings?

I know this was a Panasonic problem, (linked-list file system) and there wasn't a defrag feature on them, but didn't that apply to Toshiba too or am I wrong? All the features sound great, but having to reset the HDD regularly would be a deal-breaker for me.

but I have heard about potential file system problems on Panasonics and Toshibas that cause you to have to "format" (reset then file system) fairly regularly due to problems caused by fragmentation.

I know this was a Panasonic problem

Never experienced that problem. I have had a Panny DMR-E80H (80GB hard drive) for 3+ years and have only formatted once and really didn't need to. Just didn't feel like erasing 24 programs one at a time. So, I would say it is a thing of the past.

Well the Toshiba is sounding more and more interesting to me too, but I have heard about potential file system problems on Panasonics and Toshibas that cause you to have to "format" (reset then file system) fairly regularly due to problems caused by fragmentation. Is this a thing of the past? Has Toshiba resolved the problem, or at least added a defrag feature that doesn't force you to lose all HDD recordings?

I know this was a Panasonic problem, (linked-list file system) and there wasn't a defrag feature on them, but didn't that apply to Toshiba too or am I wrong? All the features sound great, but having to reset the HDD regularly would be a deal-breaker for me.

I think Toshiba will offer more opportunities for fragmentation issues. But not because of anything that is inherent in the machine. Fragmentation issues may result from the fact that it allows you to do so much directly on the HDD.

It is definitely not a "tapeless VCR with a disc". And unfortunately it looks like DVD recorders are headed in that direction - ease of use being paramount. Toshiba is not your grandfather's VCR.

I pay attention to potential disc fragmentation and have in fact done what is suggested in the manual - erase all titles on the HDD. And also work with playlists. But an inexperienced user could for example develop a technique of deleting chapters within a title. As opposed to adding chapters to a playlist. Remember that you can save and edit playlists with the XS and KX series.

I my opinion there is no better for an experienced user. An inexperienced user could have problems. It is almost too much machine.

Another feature I stumbled on is what "Line U" dubbing offers. It allows me to dub a +VR mode disc burned on my Polaroid (-R -RW) directly to the HDD of the Toshiba. This is a totally different dubbing process from the DVD drive -> HDD dubbing that I mentioned above. But is none the less handled internally by the Toshiba.

edit - I should add that I have erased all titles on the HDD once. And this was primarily becuse I was doing some crazy things while I was learning and testing the machine.

The real key to fragmentation management is to work with and edit playlists. This way recording and deleting is done with continous data. Being able to dub a playlist HDD -> HDD to create "original" material is a huge plus.

I think Toshiba will offer more opportunities for fragmentation issues. But not because of anything that is inherent in the machine. Fragmentation issues may result from the fact that it allows you to do so much directly on the HDD.Yup, I think it goes without saying that with all those editing features the Toshiba offers plenty of opportunity for fragmentation, but does it have a defrag feature?

Does anybody know if the current Toshibas have an improved file system? (ie so it isn't necessary to reset the file system regularly if you do lots of HDD editing.)

ACPewty - just curious. What leads you to believe the file system needs to be improved? For all we know it could be the most robust in the business. Not sure.

I did a forum search for "fragmentation" and then drilled down into the Toshiba threads. It is mentioned a few times but I see nothing pervasive which would lead me to believe there is a problem. Not a lot of smoke.

One user reported fragmentation issues after one week and recording a few movies. Not sure what that was all about but I'd guess a bad HDD out of the box. Another user reported problems with a 100 title or chapter compilation. Sounded like a torture test. And another reported anomalies after about a year and the HDD was 96% full. Housekeeping was definitely in order. But that's about it. A couple of other comments but nothing big.

The most discussed problem I found was the burner problem with the XS32 and how to replace it. Sounds identical to how I did a burner swap on my KR2.

But that's about it. Maybe I need to do a better search. But I'm not seeing anything in the Toshiba threads here or at videohelp concerning a file system problem. Or even a fragmentation problem.

I personally am not concerned.

By the way the best advice about how to generally avoid fragmentation were your posts. :)

edit - now that I think about it I remember reading about somebody losing HDD content. If I remember correctly it was a Toshiba but I didn't run across it on this most recent search.

ACPewty - just curious. What leads you to believe the file system needs to be improved? For all we know it could be the most robust in the business. Not sure.I don't remember where I read it, but it was a discussion about the Panasonic linked-list file system problems and the Toshibas were being grouped with the Panasonics as having the same potential for problems. For all I know it could be completely wrong, which is why I'm asking, but IMHO if it doesn't have a defrag feature then that's a potential problem if you always have some content left on the HDD. (We use our DVDRs like a DVR so one of them is always about half full.)

Thanks nextoo, you're making me feel better about the Toshiba, except you still haven't said whether it has a defrag feature or not.

EDIT: Here's the post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8080194&&#post8080194) that got me wondering.

I don't remember where I read it, but it was a discussion about the Panasonic linked-list file system problems and the Toshibas were being grouped with the Panasonics as having the same potential for problems. For all I know it could be completely wrong, which is why I'm asking, but IMHO if it doesn't have a defrag feature then that's a potential problem if you always have some content left on the HDD. (We use our DVDRs like a DVR so one of them is always about half full.)

Thanks nextoo, you're making me feel better about the Toshiba, except you still haven't said whether it has a defrag feature or not.

EDIT: Here's the post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8080194&&#post8080194) that got me wondering.

Got it thanks.

That poster seems to be wrong on a couple of points.

First I agree with you on your formatting point. Second, as far as Toshiba recommending constantly reformatting the HDD that is wrong. When reading the manual it is suggested to use playlists and on occasion delete all titles to reduce fragmentation. Reformatting is only listed as an option if there is actually a problem. Advice that is not unique to Toshiba.

No defrag feature by the way - at least that I can find. Also I think Toshiba is not as great as I have seen as a DVR. The timeshift feature works great but when it is engaged you are shut out of everything else. It dominates the machine. But the one thing I do like about possibly using it as a DVR is that it has IR blaster cable and satellite box control.

So IMHO not so great as a DVR but strong in the amount of features offered when compared to other DVD recorders.

When reading the manual it is suggested to use playlists and on occasion delete all titles to reduce fragmentation...Thanks. This is actually good news IMO because if it may indicate a well designed file system (like a pc with a proper FAT) if deleting all files eliminates the need to defrag, or is as good as a (properly working) file system reset. I would still prefer to have a defrag feature though since it is rarely convenient to delete all recordings.
Also I think Toshiba is not as great as I have seen as a DVR. The timeshift feature works great but when it is engaged you are shut out of everything else. It dominates the machine. But the one thing I do like about possibly using it as a DVR is that it has IR blaster cable and satellite box control.

So IMHO not so great as a DVR but strong in the amount of features offered when compared to other DVD recorders.So by that you mean you can't record while playing? That would be a shame as that's something we take advantage of constantly since we use single tuner satellite boxes. Not a biggie for me right now as I have Pioneer 640s that do that well. I just wish they had component inputs for proper widescreen recordings.

So by that you mean you can't record while playing? That would be a shame as that's something we take advantage of constantly since we use single tuner satellite boxes. Not a biggie for me right now as I have Pioneer 640s that do that well. I just wish they had component inputs for proper widescreen recordings.

Sorry. False alarm. You can do pretty much anything you want when using it as a DVR. You can start recording and then watch a title off the HDD. You can do some editing with content on the HDD such as chapter creation and chapter thumbnail creation.

What slipped me up literally was the timeslip feature. When timeslip (chase play) is engaged it shuts down a lot of access to features. But this turns out to be no big deal. For example you can hit record and then hit timeslip. And you can turn timeslip on and off and still go back to when you first hit record.

So thanks for asking. I stand corrected. I found out the DVR features are very robust. Something I had not tested in the past. I rely on my cable STB for DVR functions and really had not given it a test on the Toshiba.

And becuse it has an IR blaster that can control timer recordings on a cable or satellite box I'd probably have to rate it ahead of many others.

This will come as no surprise to anyone who has read my posts about the Philips.

1- Excellent Recording quality.

2- Chase Play of In Progress Timer Recordings.

3- Divide Title function.

4- Frame accurate editing capabilities.

5- Support all DVD Formats.

6- Reasonable price.

What is Philips reliability?- Absolutely horrible- I still have my Panny 2003 E-80 HDD unit- Philips failed miserably on even a non HDD the 985.
Philips Menu Interface is a nightmare compared to Pio and Panny.
I really want you to come back here in 2 years and tell us about your Philips.

HG - I love your posts but I think you may be slipping a bit. I realize they are meant to be provocative but please do your research. :)

Assuming this was not intended to be a wish list and more of a Panasonic/Pioneer promotion (as I read it) I have the following to offer.

Here's my response to your numbered points:

1. Splitting a recording is no big deal and is not limited to the domain of Panasonic and Pioneer. Many if not most/all HDD recorders offer this. The only one I can think of that does not is Sony. I don't get your point about mentioning the two "P's" (Panasonic/Pioneer) in an exclusive sense.

2. Flex record is not limited to Panasonic or Pioneer. Plus there are other recorders that offer more manual bit rate settings plus flex recording. Again I don't get the point of mentioning the two "P's" in an exclusive sense.

3. Chase play on a HDD recorder is no big deal. Yet when I read your post I get the impression you think this feature is limited to just Panasonic and Pioneer - again in an exclusive sense.

4. Friendly menus? I'm not sure what that means. Some of the recorders you mention have very simple and friendly menus. Almost too friendly because they are simple machines. There are others that have more complex user menus than then two "P's" but offer a lot more features. Not quite sure if I track with you on this one.

More complex features = more complex user interface. For example. Microsoft Word = complex. Microsoft Notepad = simple. I'd rate your two "P's" as Microsoft Works.

5. Recording formats? I guess. In my opinion this is probably your best point. I prefer to stick with one "write once" format and one "rewritable" format. But this is only a personal opinion. I agree DL may be an advantage.

But that is about it.

You should not be so sensitive about the fact that I used Pio and Panny as units THAT would do these things-This is only a partial list of good things- But do not say that more complicated user interfaces will produce more- that is tripe. Pio 640 will do everything and has a simple interface.
Chase play and regular play after recording on DVD-RAM is nice- every HDD recorder should have it- no finalization either as a DVD-RW or DVD+RW. Let me throw in one other thing- editing- The liteons, polaroids et al are not nearly as efficient at deleting commercials as the Pio and Panny. Now as far as toshiba, i have not tested those RS HDD models and they could be very good - I want one to test and keep if it performs- I apologize for Toshiba but it better record all types of discs as the 2006 Pios and Pannys do.

1. Splitting recordings is what would separate a Tivo from a hard drive DVD recorder. Because you need to off-load to disc, this is a requirement.

2. Flex recording is nice to have, but definitely NOT an absolute requirement. Most folks stick to presets, like SP.

3. Chase play, again, nice to have, but NOT an absolute requirement. Most people actually never even use this feature.

4. I've only run into one DVD recorder to date that was not easy to figure out within 5 minutes, and that was an older Philips unit. I don't see Panasonic any easier than anything else. Meanwhile, a LiteOn is basically idiot-proof. To be honest, you have to be a real moron to not be able to figure out these machines in 5-10 minutes. If it's really that hard, read the book, play around, or just stick with VHS (of course, those same people probably have a clock that blinks 12:00).

5. It needs to have at least one write-once, and one re-usable. Nothing else is required. DVD+R/DVD+RW is fine, as is DVD-R/DVD-RW. DVD-RAM is such a small niche that to require it would be silly.

(6.) ATSC/QAM is not required either. Not yet, anyway. For that matter, in an age of satellite/cable receivers, tuners themselves could almost be considered optional. And even if it does have an analog tuner, call it a "cable tuner" and forget the ATSC altogether (who uses broadcast?).

(7.) Defragmentation would only be needed if the OS is unable to intelligently write files and manage the hard drive. For example, Windows XP (NTFS) does not need defrag anywhere near as much as older version of Windows did. It's the OS and file system, not the drives.

Let's not confuse personal desires (your own "requirements") with what is really a basic need of a hard drive recorder. Of course, there are basic DVD recorder needs too (like good block-free, correct-IRE image quality, for one).

It's a good topic, nonetheless.

3. Chase play, again, nice to have, but NOT an absolute requirement. Most people actually never even use this feature.I would dispute that, or at least modify it to say that the people who don't use it simply haven't discovered that it exists. I use this, my wife uses it, and of my friends the two who have HDD-based DVD recorders swear by it as well. I wouldn't buy another HDD-DVD recorder without this feature (along with most of the other features that HG mentioned).

PAL-NTSC conversion is a must

(6.) ATSC/QAM is not required either. Not yet, anyway. For that matter, in an age of satellite/cable receivers, tuners themselves could almost be considered optional. And even if it does have an analog tuner, call it a "cable tuner" and forget the ATSC altogether (who uses broadcast?).

Let's see I'd hook the device up to my TV and it would act exactly like a DVD PLAYER with no tuner at all. Pretty useless to have a DVD Player with a hard drive. I refuse to pay the cable / satellite companies $50+ a month just to get a clear reception (HD/Digital) of the broadcast channels. I don't watch any of the other crap channels they have, so I proudly raise my hands saying I am one of those that use broadcast only. (Haven't paid for cable in 7+ years) So, an ATSC is a requirement for me and the government will agree on March 1, 2007. QAM is another story and could live without, but I have a feeling it will become standard along with the ATSC tuner in a few years. I know that Samsung is a holdout, but not sure of any others.

None of the elders (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc) in my family use a STB, even though most of them have cable. So, a tuner would be a requirement, otherwise there would be no way to record with these devices except maybe output from the VCR's tuner to the recorders input, but that is plain stupid.

Let's not confuse personal desires (your own "requirements") with what is really a basic need of a hard drive recorder.

That's funny, because your list sounds like your "own requirements" - unless of course you are the universally undisputed self-appointed authority on the topic and I forgot to get that memo :-)

You should not be so sensitive about the fact that I used Pio and Panny as units THAT would do these things-This is only a partial list of good things- But do not say that more complicated user interfaces will produce more- that is tripe. Pio 640 will do everything and has a simple interface.
Chase play and regular play after recording on DVD-RAM is nice- every HDD recorder should have it- no finalization either as a DVD-RW or DVD+RW. Let me throw in one other thing- editing- The liteons, polaroids et al are not nearly as efficient at deleting commercials as the Pio and Panny. Now as far as toshiba, i have not tested those RS HDD models and they could be very good - I want one to test and keep if it performs- I apologize for Toshiba but it better record all types of discs as the 2006 Pios and Pannys do.

I'm not being sensitive. I was just curious why you chose some rather ho hum features and then tied them to both Panasonic and Pioneer. There is a whole host of recorders that offer what you listed. Nothing on your list jumped out at me as being rather special. Except for maybe DL recording capabilities. But there is a lot more to look at in a DVD recorder than DL recording capabilities.

You mention the Pioneer 640 can do "everything". If it can then how does it do what is mentioned in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9549347&&#post9549347

I'm sure it can do some of the things listed. But can it do "everything"?

I disagree with the notion that because the feature set of a particular recorder offers more than the feature set another that the result is "tripe". I guess it is "tripe" if your recorder of choice is on the short end of the list? :)

Many of the things often discussed in this forum involve extremely arbitrary measures. I'll use PQ as an example. But when feature comparisons are involved it may become more difficult to blow the smoke. I guess "tripe" is a nice start.

That's funny, because your list sounds like your "own requirements" - unless of course you are the universally undisputed self-appointed authority on the topic and I forgot to get that memo :-)
You're being ridiculous.

Let's put this in car terms so more folks can follow along...

An automobile requires 4 wheels, a steering mechanism, a transmission of some sort, fuel system, etc. This is how I am approaching the topic.

Other here are saying that CD players, air conditioners, sun roofs, and other frivolous crap are requirements. Those might all be nice, but they're a far cry from being "required" in any sense of the word.

There is a difference between "requirements" and "preferences".

This is why so many user and magazine reviews are tripe (yes, good word). They are not objective in any sense, and their own desires at what a machine should do are blinded by whiz-bang features. They forget the basics. Even worse is when a machine fails to perform at basics, but is given good reviews because of the extra features.

Getting back to cars....
A car with cruise, tilt, leather, CD, GPS nav, etc is no good if the wheels are square and the engine belches out black smoke.

This stuff shouldn't be so hard to grasp.

(and forget the ATSC altogether (who uses broadcast?).

I use OTA!! And I use cable. I like HD! Believe it or not my cable provider does not provide all the local channels in HD so I pick them up OTA with a $20 UHF antenna. And the PQ is stunning!

Good thing I have an ATSC tuner. Would be particularly nice to have an DVDR with an ATSC tuner as far as I am concerned. ;)

Getting back to cars....
A car with cruise, tilt, leather, CD, GPS nav, etc is no good if the wheels are square and the engine belches out black smoke.

This stuff shouldn't be so hard to grasp.

Well it looks like it's off to the car dealer for me. Time to trade in my Yukon XL with GPS, DVD player, leather seats, power windows, power locks, sun roof, cruise control, seating for 8, towing capabilities, 4 wheel drive, cargo capacity etc...etc...for a Chevy Cavalier. This way I won't have to worry about the wheels going square and belching black smoke.

Same thing for the wife's Volvo X wagon. I'll put her in a Chevy Cavlier too. I'll tell her this way we won't have to worry about wheels going square. Her car has too many options. No radio of course in the Chevy. Wouldn't want to complicate things. I'll tell her options are bad things.

Thanks for clearing that up! :)

It's probably time to move the family into a one room cabin with a wood burning stove too. Is a furnace really a must have? I mean heat is heat right? And who really needs walls? Same thing with the outhouse. Perfectly functional. But actually now that I think of it do we really need one? I'll have to think about that one. Is it really a must have? Especially with a few trees and a stream near by. :)

LordSurf - one more thing. You don't really need that cement pond do you?

There is a difference between "requirements" and "preferences"....and we probably shouldn't loose sight of the fact that owning a DVD recorder is, itself, a "preference" and not a "requirement" :p

...and we probably shouldn't loose sight of the fact that owning a DVD recorder is, itself, a "preference" and not a "requirement" :p

I guess before we can define requirement, we have to define intended function. If it is to capture an outside source (I.e. STB) and outside source only then a tuner would not be a requirement, if the intended function is to be a stand alone recorder and record without an outside source, then a tuner would be a requirement. Could probably do the same for everyone's "preference" and make it a requirement, by making it an intended/basic function of the unit.

Back to the car analogy, no need for an electric starter, when it can be started by a hand crank on the front. (BTW, my truck only has power steering and power brakes, everything else (windows, door locks, transmission, AC, Heat, etc) is manually..no its not 20 years old, only 5.

There is a difference between "requirements" and "preferences".

This stuff shouldn't be so hard to grasp.

True, very true, but then again the topic of this thread is "Features An HDD DVD Recorder MUST Have"

(Or it could be stated, "Preferences a HDD DVD recorder must have" -- I'll give you that the must is a little strong and probably should have been worded "should have")


Feature: The solution to a consumer need or problem. Features are the way benefits are provided to consumers. The handle feature allows a laptop computer to be carried easily. Usually any one of several different features may be chosen to meet a customer need. For example, a carrying case with shoulder straps is another feature which allows a laptop computer to be carried easily.

True, very true, but then again the topic of this thread is "Features An HDD DVD Recorder MUST Have"

(Or it could be stated, "Preferences a HDD DVD recorder must have" -- I'll give you that the must is a little strong and probably should have been worded "should have")

I like it. Makes sense. And no where do I see the possibility of the following inference. "Features on an HDD Recorder that you do not need".

...and we probably shouldn't loose sight of the fact that owning a DVD recorder is, itself, a "preference" and not a "requirement" :p

Having lived in third world countries where the people struggle just to feed themselves, and get drinking water, I agree that this is an important perspective on our quibbles, and shows the stupidity of arrogant attitudes.

...and we probably shouldn't loose sight of the fact that owning a DVD recorder is, itself, a "preference" and not a "requirement" :p

Touché! :p :p

I'm not being sensitive. I was just curious why you chose some rather ho hum features and then tied them to both Panasonic and Pioneer. There is a whole host of recorders that offer what you listed. Nothing on your list jumped out at me as being rather special. Except for maybe DL recording capabilities. But there is a lot more to look at in a DVD recorder than DL recording capabilities.

You mention the Pioneer 640 can do "everything". If it can then how does it do what is mentioned in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9549347&&#post9549347

I'm sure it can do some of the things listed. But can it do "everything"?

I disagree with the notion that because the feature set of a particular recorder offers more than the feature set another that the result is "tripe". I guess it is "tripe" if your recorder of choice is on the short end of the list? :)

Many of the things often discussed in this forum involve extremely arbitrary measures. I'll use PQ as an example. But when feature comparisons are involved it may become more difficult to blow the smoke. I guess "tripe" is a nice start.

Nextoo- My 640 just copied a burned DVD-R while I sat back and chase played an ongoing recording... while I watched, got some coffee, smoked a cigar outside and stretched and then continued watching while I went back to where I left off- show me another DVDR that will do that and, well, Lee must have defeated Grant in 1865. I do not think you know half the things that the 640 can do- need I tell you more? Now I do not know everything about the toshibas- can they record every format as the 640? Believe you and others said no. There is no other DVDR that beats the 640 in video recording quality in my tests(I have not tested the Toshiba however). The Toshiba does NOT have a more user friendly user interface though. I know that from many other posts. Can Toshibas copy a burned disc- NO. Can they multitask when burning- let others answer that. The 2006 640 so far is #1- All others are less- We will see what the 2007 models bring.

Nextoo- My 640 just copied a burned DVD-R while I sat back and chase played an ongoing recording... while I watched, got some coffee, smoked a cigar outside and stretched and then continued watching while I went back to where I left off- show me another DVDR that will do that and, well, Lee must have defeated Grant in 1865. I do not think you know half the things that the 640 can do- need I tell you more? Now I do not know everything about the toshibas- can they record every format as the 640? Believe you and others said no. There is no other DVDR that beats the 640 in video recording quality in my tests(I have not tested the Toshiba however). The Toshiba does NOT have a more user friendly user interface though. I know that from many other posts. Can Toshibas copy a burned disc- NO. Can they multitask when burning- let others answer that. The 2006 640 so far is #1- All others are less- We will see what the 2007 models bring.
That's it? The best you can come up with? :)

Based on your comments I believe you need to educate yourself. Or at least read posts. Do this with the Pioneer 640. Let me know when you are done:

1. Record and finalize with your Panasonic in Video Mode to a disc. Put the disc in the disc tray of the Pioneer and dub it to the HDD.

2. Record to DVD Ram in VR mode with the Panasonic. Put the disc in the disc tray of the Pioneer and dub it to the HDD.

3. Get your hands on one of the Philips you hold in such high regard. Record and finalize in +VR mode. Put the disc in the disc tray of the Pioneer and dub it to the HDD.

4. Record something to your Pioneer's HDD.

5. Now merge all of the titles from steps 1-4 that are on the Pioneer's HDD together. The dubbed Panasonic recordings with the Philips recording with the Pioneer HDD recording. By the way. Do the merging on the Pioneer's HDD. No exporting out to disc and back again.

6. Once your though with steps 1-5 I want you to take that handy DV input that your Pioneer is famous for and import some DV footage. Once you're done with that merge it with what you compiled in step 5. On the HDD. No copying out to a disc and then bringing it back to the HDD.

Toshiba can do this without breaking a sweat.

If you're finding the above more difficult that you would like let's try something very simple:

1. Record to the HDD for 2 hours in SP mode. Let's call this title number 1.

2. Record to the HDD for 30 minutes again in SP mode. Let's call this title 2.

3. Merge the two titles together on the HDD. Wait a minute. I'll make this one really easy. Go ahead and export out to disc if you have to. But the end result has to be a 2.5 hour merged compilation in SP mode on the HDD. No rate conversion dubbing allowed.

Let me know when you're done.

By the way. What about this stuff?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9549347&&#post9549347

I've posted it before and the only thing I got back was something about being able to smoke a cigar or something. Go through the list and please respond. I'm interested in how your Pioneer 640 compares with the capabilities I noted. Everything in the list is a capability of the Toshiba RD-KX50.

The 2006 640 so far is #1- All others are lessThat's it? The best you can come up with?You know, most DVD recorders have different feature sets, and people naturally buy the ones with the features they value the most. That doesn't necessarily make one "better" than the other... :rolleyes:

You're being ridiculous.
I am assuming you are looking in the mirror when you say that :)


Let's put this in car terms so more folks can follow along...
The fallback to the "car analogy" is rarely helpful in discussions since it opens up all sorts of other analogies and discussions. So back to DVD recorders...


There is a difference between "requirements" and "preferences".
Yes there is. What you posted are your own idea of requirements for DVD recorders. As with some of your previous posts that you eloquently avoid responding to when you are called out, you have trouble differentiating between your ideas/opinions/preferences and facts...

Of the seven things you posted above, all are a matter of opinion/preference/usage-style/etc... Even #4...

Remember this thread is about what people want in a dvd recorder. The thread post is not attempting to define the minimum requirements of a DVD recorder. Unless you were but you forgot to mention it :)


Getting back to cars....
Let's not, this is DVD recorders :)

This stuff shouldn't be so hard to grasp.
If by "grasping" you mean everyone agrees with your self-appointed authority-style "requirements", well it should be hard to grasp :-)

You know, most DVD recorders have different feature sets, and people naturally buy the ones with the features they value the most. That doesn't necessarily make one "better" than the other... :rolleyes:

Yes, Yes, Yes. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. I've never been saying the best. At least not as a practice. I'm just trying to list and compare features. You'll never hear "A #1", "king of the hill" "everything else sucks" from me, I may throw in "over rated" occasionally but's that a far cry from what else I read. If I find a problem with a recorder I'll post it. Regardless of brand. If I find attributes of certain recorders that I stumble across I'll post them regardless of brand.

I've spent a lot of time and continue to spend a lot of time ripping apart the Polaroid 2001G. It has some very unique features. But I have never posted something like "Acme recorders SUCK because you can't record via component inputs!". Never. But when it comes to certain brands that type of behavior seems to be appreciated and at times even promoted. So sometimes when I see an obvious error I take the time to point it out.

That's it? The best you can come up with? :)

Based on your comments I believe you need to educate yourself. Or at least read posts. Do this with the Pioneer 640. Let me know when you are done:

1. Record and finalize with your Panasonic in Video Mode to a disc. Put the disc in the disc tray of the Pioneer and dub it to the HDD.

2. Record to DVD Ram in VR mode with the Panasonic. Put the disc in the disc tray of the Pioneer and dub it to the HDD.

3. Get your hands on one of the Philips you hold in such high regard. Record and finalize in +VR mode. Put the disc in the disc tray of the Pioneer and dub it to the HDD.

4. Record something to your Pioneer's HDD.

5. Now merge all of the titles from steps 1-4 that are on the Pioneer's HDD together. The dubbed Panasonic recordings with the Philips recording with the Pioneer HDD recording. By the way. Do the merging on the Pioneer's HDD. No exporting out to disc and back again.

6. Once your though with steps 1-5 I want you to take that handy DV input that your Pioneer is famous for and import some DV footage. Once you're done with that merge it with what you compiled in step 5. On the HDD. No copying out to a disc and then bringing it back to the HDD.

Toshiba can do this without breaking a sweat.

If you're finding the above more difficult that you would like let's try something very simple:

1. Record to the HDD for 2 hours in SP mode. Let's call this title number 1.

2. Record to the HDD for 30 minutes again in SP mode. Let's call this title 2.

3. Merge the two titles together on the HDD. Wait a minute. I'll make this one really easy. Go ahead and export out to disc if you have to. But the end result has to be a 2.5 hour merged compilation in SP mode on the HDD. No rate conversion dubbing allowed.

Let me know when you're done.

By the way. What about this stuff?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9549347&&#post9549347

I've posted it before and the only thing I got back was something about being able to smoke a cigar or something. Go through the list and please respond. I'm interested in how your Pioneer 640 compares with the capabilities I noted. Everything in the list is a capability of the Toshiba RD-KX50.

Why would I need to do all this when I do not even own a Philips? Toshiba cannot record all types of discs and cannot copy burned discs. That IS significant. Try to state your main point concisely. Btw Pio 640 has no DV input(guess you were sarcastic)- I run my camcorder through the Panny E-500. And are not Toshiba HDDS a lot more scratch? Btw - do you own a Pio 640 and if so have YOU proved the 640 cannot do these things- THAT is important. I will assume you do not own a 640 and I will try these things(which 75% of owner/ users will never actually use albeit.. However I still state that if your Toshiba cannot record all disc formats and play them and cannot copy burned discs it is behind the curve of Pio 640- Everyone has known that Toshibas are good at editing, but they have also had copy protection problems just trying to record off SAT or Cable HBO, STime etc. I will also bet that your Toshiba cannot equal the video record quality of the Pio 640- That is where I really want to test it. Everything else pales. I am going to buy a Toshiba HDD if I can find a decent price and return policy if it's video quality is inferior to the 640. You should buy a 640 and test it without making claims that it cannot do these things, I know Toshiba cannot copy a burned disc or record all formats as the Pio 640 can. For 90% of buyers this is more important then editing capabilities(although I am not saying the Toshiba edits better than Pio 640). Also someone tried to use the ruse that a not so friendly user interface produces more cababilities- I have never heard more of a canard in my life- Mr. Con Man. User friendly interface is intrinisic to the worth of a DVDR. Pio 640 and Panny slay the rest in this feature.

Why would I need to do all this when I do not even own a Philips? Toshiba cannot record all types of discs and cannot copy burned discs. That IS significant. Try to state your main point concisely. Btw Pio 640 has no DV input(guess you were sarcastic)- I run my camcorder through the Panny E-500. And are not Toshiba HDDS a lot more scratch? Btw - do you own a Pio 640 and if so have YOU proved the 640 cannot do these things- THAT is important. I will assume you do not own a 640 and I will try these things(which 75% of owner/ users will never actually use albeit.. However I still state that if your Toshiba cannot record all disc formats and play them and cannot copy burned discs it is behind the curve of Pio 640- Everyone has known that Toshibas are good at editing, but they have also had copy protection problems just trying to record off SAT or Cable HBO, STime etc. I will also bet that your Toshiba cannot equal the video record quality of the Pio 640- That is where I really want to test it. Everything else pales. I am going to buy a Toshiba HDD if I can find a decent price and return policy if it's video quality is inferior to the 640. You should buy a 640 and test it without making claims that it cannot do these things, I know Toshiba cannot copy a burned disc or record all formats as the Pio 640 can. For 90% of buyers this is more important then editing capabilities(although I am not saying the Toshiba edits better than Pio 640). Also someone tried to use the ruse that a not so friendly user interface produces more cababilities- I have never heard more of a canard in my life- Mr. Con Man. User friendly interface is intrinisic to the worth of a DVDR. Pio 640 and Panny slay the rest in this feature.

HG - your level of misunderstanding is painful.

Of course you can disc copy with an XS and KX series Toshiba. And the disc copy feature is significantly more robust with Toshiba than it is with your Pioneer 640. Significantly more robust - no comparison.

With your Pioneer 640 your disc copy feature is limited to just that. A simple disc copy. I don't understand why that is such a big deal. Many recorders offer this. But the Toshiba goes one step further. After you high speed dub a Video-mode disc to the HDD with the copy disc feature you can then play it off the HDD, you can edit it, you can merge it with other titles on the HDD, you can pull chapters out and merge them with other chapters on the HDD, etc. You do not have the limitations using a Video-mode disc copy (using the Toshiba disc copy feature) that you see with the Pioneer 640 that was discussed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8663124&&#post8663124

So I don't get it. You call me Mr. Con Man and yet you are wofully ill informed. Embarrassing actually.

I've even included a pic in the effort to hopefully avoid the Mr. Con Man moniker in the future. HG - you're making a fool of yourself.

HG - one more thing as it relates to the robustness of disc backup. The Toshiba offers "partial disc" backup off of Video-mode discs down to the chapter level.

The pic in my last post shows a recording of Sparticus. With your Pioneer you can't do a partial disc backup. And if you wanted to edit the entire Video-mode recording you would have to do a real time recording back to your HDD. It would take 3 hours and 8 minutes - the length of the movie. And you would lose all of you chapter points.

Again, with Toshiba you can backup to the HDD from a disc down to the chapter level - with Video-mode finalized on a -R.

Pic 1 below shows the movie down to the chapter level. Pic 2 shows the procedure for high speed dubbing back to the HDD by chapter. In this case the pic shows the chapter as 5 minutes long. It takes seconds and as mentioned in the previous post can be played off the HDD, edited, merged, etc.

By the way. I have owned the Pioneer 640. When I compared the disc backup capabilities of both the Pioneer and Toshiba I chose Toshiba. This was one of many features I considered. At least I've done the research.

I've included the pics in an effort to avoid the Mr. Con Man moniker.

I'm not sure if this is an example of a "must have" or an example of a "nice to have".

I'm thinking it is a must have when I decide on what features I would like on my DVD recorder. And are available as features and options on my Toshiba.

The pics below show examples of a custom title menu and a custom chapter menu. In this case my DVD video creation is set to default to the title when the play button is pressed. Move from chapter to chapter as the movie plays. And then default back to the title menu when the movie is over.

It was recorded from Showtime HD in wide screen format. I set the 16x9 widescreen flag for proper anamorphic playback.

Pic one shows an example of using a captured image for the title menu backround. Pic two uses a different captured image for the backround of the chapter menus. Pic two also shows examples of chapter thumbnails.

This process is very easy - regardless of what may have been posted. But it does take longer than five minutes to learn.

The pics lose a lot of quality in the pic taking process.

I'm not sure if this is an example of a "must have" or an example of a "nice to have".

I'm thinking it is a must have when I decide on what features I would like on my DVD recorder. And are available as features and options on my Toshiba.

The pics below show examples of a custom title menu and a custom chapter menu. In this case my DVD video creation is set to default to the title when the play button is pressed. Move from chapter to chapter as the movie plays. And then default back to the title menu when the movie is over.

It was recorded from Showtime HD in wide screen format. I set the 16x9 widescreen flag for proper anamorphic playback.

Pic one shows an example of using a captured image for the title menu backround. Pic two uses a different captured image for the backround of the chapter menus. Pic two also shows examples of chapter thumbnails.

This process is very easy - regardless of what may have been posted. But it does take longer than five minutes to learn.

The pics lose a lot of quality in the pic taking process.

Do you currently run STB-->Component-->Polaroid-->Svid-->Toshiba? If so are you able to gleam some of the benefits of the Toshiba from transfer from another DVDR? Is this possible?

Nextoo, the Toshiba's disc copy features you report are truly better than the 640. If I buy another DVDR, I will certainly consider the Toshibas. Will they also do HS copies to HDD of non-copy protected, commercial, pressed discs? How about CDRs?

In fairness to HG, in the past, several other people have stated on this forum that Pio was the only one with a bit-for-bit copy feature, without contradiction. So I believed it.

I think it still is if you consider the entire disc, including menus.

I would dispute that, or at least modify it to say that the people who don't use it simply haven't discovered that it exists. I use this, my wife uses it, and of my friends the two who have HDD-based DVD recorders swear by it as well. I wouldn't buy another HDD-DVD recorder without this feature (along with most of the other features that HG mentioned).
Chase play.
This is my fav feature of my Pio 533, phone call, no problem, have to get up and do something, no problem, would not buy another recorder without this feature.

I am assuming you are looking in the mirror when you say that :)


The fallback to the "car analogy" is rarely helpful in discussions since it opens up all sorts of other analogies and discussions. So back to DVD recorders...


Yes there is. What you posted are your own idea of requirements for DVD recorders. As with some of your previous posts that you eloquently avoid responding to when you are called out, you have trouble differentiating between your ideas/opinions/preferences and facts...

Of the seven things you posted above, all are a matter of opinion/preference/usage-style/etc... Even #4...

Remember this thread is about what people want in a dvd recorder. The thread post is not attempting to define the minimum requirements of a DVD recorder. Unless you were but you forgot to mention it :)



Let's not, this is DVD recorders :)


If by "grasping" you mean everyone agrees with your self-appointed authority-style "requirements", well it should be hard to grasp :-)
I could have not said this better myself, agree 100%

By the way. I have owned the Pioneer 640. When I compared the disc backup capabilities of both the Pioneer and Toshiba I chose Toshiba. This was one of many features I considered. At least I've done the research.
After reading your posts, I really like the features of the Toshiba, especially the ability to do editing after copy from a finalised Video mode DVD to HDD.

Could you please share whether is there any good feature on the Pioneer 640 that cannot be done on the Toshiba? This will help in my decision for my next DVDR.

Thanks.

Count me in as another satisfied customer with the Toshiba RD-KX50!

I have to speak up and say the Chase-Play feature is one of the most used features for me on this unit. I have it programmed to record a 3 hr block of news shows everyday, which start about 1 hr before I get home from work. When I get home, I hit the Chase-Play and I can immediately begin watching at the start of the program (while it continues to record the remainder of that 3 hr program). Along the way, I can ffwd through the commercials or fluff news segments while in Chase-Play mode. Usually, it works out just about right where I have caught up to the realtime recording position towards the end of that 3 hr program (since save time skipping commercials). At that point, I disengage the Chase-Play and resume watching the recording in realtime.

Another time Chase-Play comes in handy is whilst watching a program and I suddenly feel the urge to visit the bathroom (not the short trip, but the long trip ;) ). I hit the Chase-Play and go do my business. When I come back, I can immediately shoot back to the beginning of the recording (while it continues to record), watch away, skip commercials, and when I have caught up to the realtime position, disengage Chase-Play. There is a handy message prompt at that point where you can choose to save whatever was captured during Chase-Play or ditch it right there.

Another neat thing about the Chase-Play is you can press the chapter divide button to mark places anywhere (or divide out commercials for later editing), all while it is recording in realtime. Essentially, chapter divide is available to you anytime- during Chase-Play, during recording, in playback mode...you can even use it to further subdivide chapters in a playlist.

Other handy features are the realtime bitrate meter (accessible as a numeral reading or bar graph while in playback mode) and the recording time calculator (especially handy when you are using custom bitrate settings).

CD and mp3 playback support is rudimentary, but useable. Naturally, it is playback only (no dubbing to hdd).

Similar to the video having different recording speeds, you also have some options for the audio tracks (2 lossy bitrates or straight up pcm).

Count me in as another satisfied customer with the Toshiba RD-KX50!

I have to speak up and say the Chase-Play feature is one of the most used features for me on this unit. I have it programmed to record a 3 hr block of news shows everyday, which start about 1 hr before I get home from work. When I get home, I hit the Chase-Play and I can immediately begin watching at the start of the program (while it continues to record the remainder of that 3 hr program). Along the way, I can ffwd through the commercials or fluff news segments while in Chase-Play mode. Usually, it works out just about right where I have caught up to the realtime recording position towards the end of that 3 hr program (since save time skipping commercials). At that point, I disengage the Chase-Play and resume watching the recording in realtime.

Another time Chase-Play comes in handy is whilst watching a program and I suddenly feel the urge to visit the bathroom (not the short trip, but the long trip ;) ). I hit the Chase-Play and go do my business. When I come back, I can immediately shoot back to the beginning of the recording (while it continues to record), watch away, skip commercials, and when I have caught up to the realtime position, disengage Chase-Play. There is a handy message prompt at that point where you can choose to save whatever was captured during Chase-Play or ditch it right there.

Another neat thing about the Chase-Play is you can press the chapter divide button to mark places anywhere (or divide out commercials for later editing), all while it is recording in realtime. Essentially, chapter divide is available to you anytime- during Chase-Play, during recording, in playback mode...you can even use it to further subdivide chapters in a playlist.

Other handy features are the realtime bitrate meter (accessible as a numeral reading or bar graph while in playback mode) and the recording time calculator (especially handy when you are using custom bitrate settings).

CD and mp3 playback support is rudimentary, but useable. Naturally, it is playback only (no dubbing to hdd).

Similar to the video having different recording speeds, you also have some options for the audio tracks (2 lossy bitrates or straight up pcm).

Great post in giving us non-Toshiba users an experiential (is that a word?) view of Toshiba's Chase Play features! This buffer flexibility is a big advantage over DVRs/(TiVo too??) who lose their buffer contents when a channel is changed.

ps> it was funny to see a bathroom reference from ...Mr Hanky (assuming that's a South Park inspired nickname, otherwise ignore this) :)

I am in total agreement with the Toshiba DVDR owners on this thread. I have the RD-XS55 for nine months and couldn't be more satisfied with it.

I do have one problem that maybe someone could address. When I record a "copy once" movie to the HDD, I delete the beginning and ending portions, in order to fit it to a DVD-RAM. In a majority of the times, when I "move" the remaining portion, the final product on the DVD-RAM will have tiling problems, will freeze at certain points and is usually unwatchable. I only have used the recommended Panasonic DVD-RAM's.

I am at the point now that any movie I plan to keep a copy of and know that it will be "copy once", is recorded through my Sima CT-200, thus allowing me to copy my playlist to a DVD-R. The only thing I really lose is the closed captioning feature. In these cases I always have a perfect copy.