Any reason why different codec is chosen on the HD DVD release (VC-1) and Blu-ray (MPEG-2)? I thought VC-1 is one of Blu-ray standard and is considered the better one? Will it not save the studio money if same codec is used?

That's what Paramount has been doing on all their releases. VC1 on HD and MPEG2 on BD.

I thought VC-1 is one of Blu-ray standard and is considered the better one?

That's debatable.

That's debatable.

Yea its debatable, like anything. But the OP is correct ;)

Do some research, MPEG2 has many shortcomings.

That's what Paramount has been doing on all their releases. VC1 on HD and MPEG2 on BD.

True to a point, Sony are making the BR discs for Paramount hence the use of MPEG-2.

Yea its debatable, like anything. But the OP is correct ;)

Do some research, MPEG2 has many shortcomings.

I think it is you that needs to do some research.

Also, go get some therapy to cure that ego problem of yours. ;)

Yea its debatable, like anything. But the OP is correct ;)

Do some research, MPEG2 has many shortcomings.

I think you might want to do some reasearch yourself dude ;)

-Gary

I think you might want to do some reasearch yourself dude ;)

-Gary
I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you, but I seem to remember very early on when both formats were still in their infancy you kept raving about how great VC-1 was and that is was somehow immune to traditional compression issues and every movie looked exactly the way it should thanks to VC-1.

I think it is you that needs to do some research.

Also, go get some therapy to cure that ego problem of yours. ;)

Do we know what codecs Fox and Disney prefer? We know Warner prefers VC-1. Also, what is the ratio of mpeg-2 to other codecs on the more recently announced titles on BD and that will shed light on what the general consensus on codecs on the BD side are....

Sony gets royalty for mpeg-2 and are offering a sweet deal to encode BD disks for studios. Not sure how many titles they have promised each studio, but looks like they are cutting back on their own output. For instance, Sony has put out fewer movies than either Universal or Warner (AFAIK).

Just examine the evidence and the facts will be there.... ;)

At equal bit rate VC1 is better, so VC1 is better.

I think it is you that needs to do some research.

Also, go get some therapy to cure that ego problem of yours. ;)


TROLL

TROLL

Don't you mean "OMGZ 1ts teh B1ue-R@y fanboi!!11one!".

:rolleyes:

No it means you went overboard with your comment.


VC1 against MPEG2 using the same amount of storage space is a win for VC1.
VC1 is the better more efficient codec that is it,end of file.

That's debatable.

If your blind

Most important is source material. VC1 compression on a 30gb disc with equal features will easily win against MPEG-2 on a 25 gb disc. VC1 is at least 2x as efficient as MPEG-2 without the artifacts. MPEG-2 can come close to equaling VC1 with a high bit rate of at least 24+ mbps.

If your blind

Yeah because we all know how terrible the reputation is for MPEG-2 encoded movies like Kingdom of Heaven on Blu-ray have. :rolleyes:

And your saying I'm blind?

Irony at it's finest.

No it means you went overboard with your comment.

Hey I'm not the one that started the whole "do some research" bit.

Oh but I'm am the one that had something remotely positive to say about the other format... http://www.rage3d.com/board/images/smilies/bleh2.gif

Black Rain will be released on a BD50 ( http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/blackrain.html ), so space will not be a problem. Aside from the fact that VC-1 is more efficient at a lower bitrate, MPEG-2 and VC-1 both seem to have a distinctive look. If you own both formats, maybe you could rent both versions to see which you prefer.

If anyone is interested in an update of this debate, hidefdigest has now reviewed the MPEG-2 blu-ray version of this movie, and has opined that the video quality matches the VC-1 HD DVD release.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/blackrain.html#Section3

If anyone is interested in an update of this debate, hidefdigest has now reviewed the MPEG-2 blu-ray version of this movie, and has opined that the video quality matches the VC-1 HD DVD release.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/blackrain.html#Section3

All of Paramount's titles are VC-1 on HD DVD and MPEG2 on Blu-ray, and on just about all of them there has been little to no visible difference. I'm not sure why Black Rain is suddenly such an issue.

Why do people keep ignoring the fact that the MPEG2 codec from Sony has a flaw that ignores the first 8 and last 8 bits of black and white color information? Sony claims they will fix it, but even then their players are going to ignore it. This seems relevent and should at least be discussed in a thread like this. I believe VC1 has no such problem, nor do other MPEG2 codecs or the HD-DVD hardware, as far as I know.

Why do people keep ignoring the fact that the MPEG2 codec from Sony has a flaw that ignores the first 8 and last 8 bits of black and white color information? Sony claims they will fix it, but even then their players are going to ignore it. This seems relevent and should at least be discussed in a thread like this. I believe VC1 has no such problem, nor do other MPEG2 codecs or the HD-DVD hardware, as far as I know.

That isn't a problem with MPEG2 or VC1 as codecs. It was an issue with Sony's encoder specifically. They claim their encoder no longer does that.

So does Best Buy carry this or not? I only see the Blu Ray version on the site. Anyone pick it up yet?

That isn't a problem with MPEG2 or VC1 as codecs. It was an issue with Sony's encoder specifically. They claim their encoder no longer does that.

Uh, if you read my post I explicitely say exactly that, however you also missed where I said that although their codec might be fixed, their hardware still ignores those 16 bits of information. Seems significant to this debate I think.

I think the issue is that you have to take care of Mpeg-2 in order to get a quality product...while you can be more lazy with getting a VC-1 encoded movie going and it will look good still. So shotty mpeg-2 = bad picture, while shotty VC-1 = still good picture.

Also, what's the point in touting your space advantage when you use it all up on an older codec that merely matches the other format's efficient codec? Couldn't bluray DESTROY HD-DVD's picture quality with a full bitrate VC-1 encode due to bluray's space and bandwidth advantage? Yet they stick with mpeg-2 with very little chance of it surpassing HD-DVD picture quality when they have the technology to do so much better.

HD-DVD isn't perfect by any means, but at least they're trying to provide the best picture they can, while it seems like bluray is only trying to find ways to cut corners.

Uh, if you read my post I explicitely say exactly that, however you also missed where I said that although their codec might be fixed, their hardware still ignores those 16 bits of information. Seems significant to this debate I think.It looks like you are confusing how many levels there are below black and above reference white with the number of bits. Ignoring the x number of lowest bits would cause a resolution problem between video 16 and video 235.

The HD-A1 used to crush to these levels to most DVI inputs, but I think it got fixed at some point (although I could be wrong).

From what I remember about what paidgeek said, I thought one of Sony's MPEG2 encoders basically crushed and one didn't.
I think the issue is that you have to take care of Mpeg-2 in order to get a quality product...while you can be more lazy with getting a VC-1 encoded movie going and it will look good still. So shotty mpeg-2 = bad picture, while shotty VC-1 = still good picture.I'm a fan of VC-1, but I'm not sure about this. I believe they are still doing a lot of hand reencoding with VC-1 to get things looking like they do. It would be interesting to hear how long each of these encodes took.

--Darin

In Peter Bracke's review of the HD DVD version of Black Rain he states "There is also some very slight noise in a couple of shots, always involving billowing smoke", but that video critique isn’t mentioned in the BD review.

I wonder if this noise is in both versions or if it is just in the HD DVD version?

This might sound dumb ... but here goes. I was watching guitarscape on HD-DVD and noticed the it was in mpeg-2. I kinda had a blanket thought that all HD-DVD were using VC-1. Guess not.

Sony has a flaw that ignores the first 8 and last 8 bits of black and white color information?

Sony fixed the clipping issue a while ago.

Sony fixed the clipping issue a while ago.

Not really, as I keep saying, they fixed it in their codec, but their players still ignore it. Unless someone knows otherwise there is not one BR player on the market that reads those bits properly.