I can live without a handful of PHillies games that are on CN8. Frankly, I do not think that the Phillies care. They are in bed with Comcast as part owners of CSN. The Phillies struck a long term deal at the inception of CSN and got very little for their rights. What they get for their broadcast rights is pitiful. THis looks like it will be a bad season anyway. Too much other stuff to worry about.

As for yesterday's game, the snow flakes were a good test. I really wanted that upper level camera perspective of the height of Howard's pop-fly early in the game. No such luck.

[rant on] I've noticed a huge amount of Verizon signage plastered just about everywhere in both the ballpark and Wachovia Center. An interesting payback to ComCast by using their own channel to advertise their competitor. The loser, however, is the viewer who has to look past all this clutter. [rant off]

I have let CSN management know that I would love that camera in the press box above the plate used more and would love to see it as the main camera instead of the one in centerfield. You can clearly see on my 50" screen whether the ball crosses the plate and can follow the action better once the ball is put in play. It minimzes camera movement and cut aways. I love it. HDNet did something similar when they first did MLB their first two years. It was awesome then, even on a 34" screen.

JWhip - I have a somewhat different opinion on what should be the "main" camera. I want to see the catcher's signs and how he catches the ball (glove placement over the plate)- hence a center field camera.

Tim McCarver, who I think is one of the best analysts in the game (and an ex-Phillie), has an excellent discussion of camera placement in his book, "Tim Mccarver's Baseball for Brain Surgeons and Other Fans". There's an excerpt online at the NYT, you can get the Google cached version here: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:is6AwsJHYxYJ:www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/mccarver-baseball.html+how+to+televise+baseball+camera+angle&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=23&gl=us&client=firefox-a (If not, Google search for "Tim Mccarver's baseball for brain surgeons and other fans site: nytimes.com", the page is cached)

Baseball is a game of angles. In this excerpt, I believe your press box view would be called the "high-home" camera. The article appears to be circa 1998, but I don't think anything but the ESPN K-zone box have changed since then.

I think the key is to have some really good producers who understand the nuances of the game and can work in real-time. As an example, I thought that the home opener (KYW) camera views were more in-tune with the game than Thursday's game (ComCast). Different producers?

The opener was produced by the same CSN crew. I love the high home angle. It is like stitting in the broadcast booth which I have done at the Bank. It is a great way to watch the game. You can easliy see if the ball is over the plate and can better guage the speed of the pitch as well as when it is a slider, curve etc. For me, the center field shot is way overrated. I don't need to know what the pitch will be before it occurs and with a runner on second you can't tell anyway. You have to cut to another angle anyway when the ball is hit. To me, the best way to cover sports is with as few camera angle cuts as possible. With the High-home angle, you don't need to move the camers at all if done properly. I would love to watch more of the game from the broadcast booth view but that is just one man's opinion. The tests done on HDNet in 2001 where great in that regard. Until you have seen a game shot in that manner, you do not appreciate how great it can look. All HD all the time will eventually change how all sports are shot once producers, directors and camera men get out of that 4x3 SD mindset.

JWhip - Must be baseball season, let the debates begin! :). I can understand your perspective, sounds like a good solid argument. I won't be able to get a "reference" view in person at the Bank for quite a while. Let me know when they start the high-home camera coverage like you requested. I fully agree with the need to dump the 4:3 mindset.

------------------
Also posted in the Philly OTA thread:

The Google Earth OTA 3-D Visualization terrain mapping files were just updated. There was a bug in the initial release that dropped a lot of stations. Looks like it was fixed.

It's now a sticky in the HDTV Reception Hardware forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480, Post #2 for the color maps.

Be sure to read the posts with regards to the color scheme - it is not intended to match antennaweb.org.

Anyone seeing outages on MSNBC (84) or the HBO West channels (401)??

Reports on DSL Reports showing that some folks in the West Chester area are missing these channels.

Just wanted to see if this was a wide-spread Philly headend issue.

Thanks!

MSNBC was working here.

I was seeing some stuttering on HD channels tonight, just after the firmware was updated to 17.25. I cleared the video buffer output (Off, Menu, then cycle through the HDMI output resolutions). Will keep an eye on it. Maybe you have to initialize at least some part of the STB after an update (HD DVR, 6416).

was the firmware update automatic? cycling through the hdmi output res in the menu with box off clears the video buffer? guess its good to reapply that once in a great while but wouldn't just unplugging and backin reboot the stb.

Yes, the firmware update was automatic.

The technique to clear the buffer memory was something I tried that seemed to work the last time this happened. There was some discussion over on DSL Reports (and maybe in AVS forum) of stuttering problems due to a filled buffer in video memory. My STB is the Moto 64616 HD-DVR.

Rebooting (unplug / replug) the STB fixes the problem. However, it didn't work for me, so I figured that resetting the video output format would do the same thing. So far, that seems to work. It's a lot quicker than rebooting the STB and waiting for the program guide to reload. I'll reboot correctly if the problem persists.

Someone just posted over on DSL Reports that THREE NEW NATIONAL HD's just showed up.

They live in Texas

Food HD - 840
Lifetime Movie HD - 841
HGTV HD - 845

Can anyone else confirm??????

I live in Schwenksville, PA (Lower Frederick Township), and while we have access to Verizon Fios Internet, we don't have TV yet. For anyone in my area, I town to the township manager about the TV availability, and she said the Fios TV service won't be ready until the end of 2007.

Jeepmatt, no new HD here, yet.

Maybe adding the channels is another fee responsibility to the Townships around here...no new channels in Yardley either!!! :o

They have been added in Texas and today in Florida. I would therefore expect them to be added within a few days here as well. Seems like a grdual rollout, probably a new state each day based upon when eacg state was added. I guess VA will be next then Pa.

Anyone out a few HD and SD channels today. Looks like a rain problem.

Didn't notice any outages in our area yesterday, but also didn't run through all the channels last night. Hopefully they are all restored for you.

The only "glitch" last night was WTXF-DT 10 O'Clock news missing the first minute or so of the broadcast, analog OK. Saw blank screen, then color bars until the broadcast was restored.

Tonight, ESPN is showing the All Star game in-lieu of ppd Phillies vs. Mets. Thought they would have a backup game. Back to hockey on VS.

This morning the NBC high def channel had a "behind the scenes" broadcasting of the control room feed for the Today show prior to 6:30 AM. They showed a tech sitting in the chair to get a lighting and audio level, and then Meredith Viera sitting in the chair getting her hair fixed. Various remote locations were shown with wording saying things like "wipe", and then rolling the screen between shots. Very strange.

i cant stand most of the regular camera angles used for most sports.
hckey and basketball make me nuts because of the side angle from near center court/ice.
if if has to be a side veiw why not a camera tht slides along the side with the ball or puck.
i prefer a zoom from behind the opposite net.

the center field shot in baseball that is more closer to a left/center field shot is terrible.

nearly impossible to see were the ball crosses the plate.
everything about that angle is awkward.
espn used a true center field shot a few years ago and i thought that was great.
i also like the behind home plate shot from press level.

or why not put a camera o the right center side of the outfiels for a reverse angle view.

espn's first base side moving shot is good too but not used enough.
have they even used it at all this season?

anyway back to topic, still waiting for verizon in aston.
no fios internet or tv.

espn used a true center field shot a few years ago and i thought that was great.

I don't remember that ESPN angle, but if the camera was indeed located at true centerfield, wouldn't the pitcher get in the way of the view of home plate?

The better angle is from the press box right over the plate. Comcast is experimenting with that. With more and more widescreens out there, look for it more often.

...wouldn't the pitcher get in the way of the view of home plate?
Yes, he does, and the elevated position of the camera distorts the sense of the strike zone, keeping you wondering why a pitch down the center of the plate that looks waist-high is called a ball!

No Phillies tonight - on CN8. Same tomorrow. At least that's the last of the Sixers conflicts.

Considering how they are playing, we are better off not getting the games.

No Phillies tonight - on CN8. Same tomorrow. At least that's the last of the Sixers conflicts.

At least here in DE - I'll get to watch the Phillies tonight on MASN.

Also, Cheers for Howard Eskin - it's about time a Philly reporter stood up to the Phillies "oh, it'll get better" mentality.

...Cheers for Howard Eskin....
That's something you wouldn't do very often!!! But yes, he obviously asked the "worng question" to the "right person" when he got the manager riled up! Good for Eskin, and with the way they are playing, Charlie may have uttered his profanities for the last time in Philadelphia...we'll see!
By the way, "I am growed up"??? Where is Charlie from?

By the way, "I am growed up"??? Where is Charlie from?Yardley, PA. ;)

Why does it matter if a "reporter" stood up to the Phillies? The fans are the ones who should be upset, yet the building is full even on a cold night like last night. $6.50 beer, $3.50 pretzel. Eskin is in it for the pub. and Charlie was wrong to react, and again the fan loses.

Charlie did it on purpose. It was premeditated. He is using it to inspire the team, us vs them. HOpe it will work!

Yardley, PA. ;)
We are Yardley!!! But remember, we are a "roll out" area, and Comcast described us as a "high income area" for Verizon to use as an example! We are much more highly edumacated than Charlie!!! ;)

We are Yardley!!! We are much more highly edumacated than Charlie!!! ;) Agreed. 1:05 PM start time today, Sportsnet. Not taking bets on SD vs. HD. Let's see if that dissertation in the manager's office had any effect.

Speaking of "roll out", Comcast rolled out 2 trucks in front of my neighbor's house yesterday. Neighbors complained about bad picture quality, so ComCast promised them they would replace the line amp up on the pole (that's what they promised me 3 months ago, which is why I'm on FiOS). Don't know what they did, but I didn't see them swap the amp (retune maybe?) and they seemed to have found a cracked hard line on the next pole over (was hit by car a few months ago). I can't tell for sure, but it looks like they put a splice in the line- it's got a sharp bend in it (S-curve) around the tap.

Still no new HD for us here in the DE/PA region.

No clue as to why we're at the bottom of the rollout list.
But, also looks like no one got them today.

The mystery rolls on.

...1:05 PM start time today, Sportsnet....
The last two nights they are 1 in 24 with runners in scoring position. Think the manager has anything to do with that?
I need to speak with my neighbor to see if his problems have been solved by the latest go round with Comcast techs in his yard. I told him to just order the FiOS service and be done with it. I'll put up with the volume levels being different between channels, but without the pixelation and audio dropouts that I had, and he still has!

JimHef - I told my neighbor the same thing. Just get FiOS.
The Phillies latest ad campaign is about "goose bumps". Yeah, I get them every time they play. It chills me thinking about the number of runners left on base. Or, I get them from nightmares. Like today. Still shaking after that 9th inning :).

Anyone down South watch the Nats game on MASN this afternoon? Was wondering what the advertising backdrop was showing. On Sportsnet, some of the in-game replays showed MASN ads. Never saw a MASN ad during live shots. Me thinks that they are sharing the cameras and some of the production space for both Philly and MASN feeds.

Update: Power dropped out, restored 5 minutes later. Had 3 UPS's screaming at me - 2 PCs, 1 display (DLP lamp protection). First time relying on FiOS backup battery for telephone - works fine.

Yes, they just wanted to make the last inning a bit more interesting for the Washington fans than the rest of the game! I thought they were, once again, going to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory! :D

When you had the black out, and your PCs were on the UPS, besides the dial-up, was your internet service also still there?

Black out- The ActionTec is not on any backup power source, so it was off anyway. I sized the UPS to just give enough time for a clean PC shut down (save files, etc.). It's not a high priority to continue internet for the remaining few minutes, so a UPS for the router is a moot point. The APC Battery Power and System Stats LEDs were on.

Are my eyes deceiving me on the white balance of the Phillies center field camera? I thought I saw this on an earlier game. Most noticeable on the back of the pitcher, but it seems to take on a bluish tint. Maybe it's the stadium night lighting. Weird. Got those goose bumps again in the 9th inning. Onto the 10th...never mind.

Yes, the late innings and the later innings are what are killing them now!!! It may be a long summer, but the draft next weekend will be a highlight for some of us. Meanwhile, Verizon isn't carrying the Penn State Blue/White game on any channel...bummer!

Finally. The secret to winning a game is to keep it out of the bullpen's hands. Throw 16 Ks. If you get 2 runners on base, force them to hit into a triple play. Unbelievagable (as Harry would say).

I never realized that SD resolution was that poor. Could never read the "Reds.com" logo on the backstop unless they zoomed in close.

According to a press release today - we should see the new National HD's here in DE/PA by the end of the week.

From the PR:
"The three channels will be available in all FiOS TV markets by the end of this week, bringing the total number of HD channels to at least 27 in most markets, depending on the number of local channels that broadcast in HD. FiOS TV subscribers with an HD-capable TV and an HD set-top box will receive the three new channels at no additional cost."

According to a press release today - we should see the new National HD's here in DE/PA by the end of the week.

From the PR:
"The three channels will be available in all FiOS TV markets by the end of this week, bringing the total number of HD channels to at least 27 in most markets, depending on the number of local channels that broadcast in HD. FiOS TV subscribers with an HD-capable TV and an HD set-top box will receive the three new channels at no additional cost."

Quote from Multichannel News:

Home & Garden Television HD, Food Network HD and Lifetime Movie Network HD joined Verizon Communications’ FiOS TV lineup.

The telco said its total number of HD channels is now at least 27 in most markets, depending on the number of local channels that broadcast in HD.

FiOS TV subscribers with HD-capable TVs and HD set-top boxes will receive the three new channels at no additional cost, Verizon added.

Verizon also announced FiOS TV launches in portions of Ashton, Damascus, Germantown, Olney and Sandy Springs in Maryland’s Montgomery County; Newport News, Va.; and parts of Chesterfield County, Va., in the Richmond area.

The new HD's are on this morning. YAY!

i guess those were the 3 or so blank channels in the HD area of channels. the 800's for me though i forget exactly which 3 were blank.

just checked. guide still says no info but maybe cus this box was off and has to be on to get the info.

anyway seems 840 is Food Network HD and 845 is Lifetime Movie network HD by the symbol in the lower right.

so 841 which doesnt 'have any symbol must be Home & Garden Tv HD!

w00t!

now my wife can watch get color and other crap like that in HD. thats on hgtv right?

pretty good 3 chans too, not like the VS/Golf crap that Comcast got.

Does Fios in philly have more HD chans then Comcast for sure now? when are we getting HD on demand?

Where can one find the new channel listing to print because the one they gave us on install was already outdated with a few changes even before these 3 new hd chans.

Does Fios in philly have more HD chans then Comcast for sure now? when are we getting HD on demand?

Where can one find the new channel listing to print because the one they gave us on install was already outdated with a few changes even before these 3 new hd chans.

Yeah, FIOS now has 28 HD channels if you include the 3 new ones today. (Even though I'd still like to see Vs/Golf HD.

The lineup on the website now is actually up to date - don't choose the local PDF's - just look at the list on-screen.

28 HD channels as opposed to how many from Comcast?

also, is there a link to a current printable fios channel lineup?

Does anyone in warminster township have verizon fios tv yet ? Internet fios has been working fine since installed on Superbowl Sunday 2007. Thanks Owenf

Guide data still has no info on the new channels as of 12:30 PM. Now, the husband can watch all the crappy food shows in HD (a different perspective :) ).

Geek-
You just answered my question! I was wondering if any guide data populated yet.
Wow - still nothing as of 12:30pm?

Guide data populated at 6:30 PM (next time I checked).

Boy oh boy do those HGTV HD programs look good!

Of course any new HD channels are welcome but I would like to see SciFi and Spike in HD eventually if they even have HD feeds.

By yesterday afternoon, the Guide notations were up and running, at least giving a sense of what the channels were. Life Channel in high-def won't be a biggie for me, but seeing Giada in high res was entertaining!

OMG, a new camera for the Phillies game! Mounted just to the right of the 1st base screen, in line with the 3rd base line. Not an aerial cable guide like ESPN, but an honest to goodness real camera mounted on a pole that can change height and view. Wide angle zoom. Steady shot, minimal motion. Nice. Kudos to ComCast for the experiment.

At first glance, it looks fairly neat. I think they need some time to get used to it. At first, it was just used for return from commercial "big picture" pan around the stadium. The panning is a bit disorienting if it's done too quickly.

As the game progressed, they started to use it more. For the game play, I like the view. However, they have to zoom in a bit more to capture just the catcher and pitcher. You can definitely see the height of the ball, but it's very difficult to catch where it is over the plate. Needs to be located a bit closer to home plate to get the angle right. Best spot would probably be closer to the broadcast booth, but maybe they were limited due to the screen (high-home camera?).

I was worried that the left-handed batters would block the plate view, but it looks OK.

Can they start showing the entire pitching sequence instead of cutting to the center field camera as the ball is thrown? I'd like to see continuity through the entire play after the ball is hit as well. That's a great perspective for when there's no one on base, or, 1st and 2nd. Long-ball home runs as well.

Try showing an entire inning without the center field camera, or, a split screen view with the center field camera in the upper right corner and the "sneak cam" as the main view.

I take back what I posted earlier :mad:. Tonight, the camera was by the right field foul pole. The announcers gave it a quick description, even showing it going up and down. It's a stupid marketing pitch for some company that sells aerial shots for sporting events. Here's the link: http://www.stealthaerialcameras.com/index.asp

There's a bunch of press releases on the web site. Selling point is that it's cost effective for those on limited budgets. Rentals run from 10,000 to 15,000 per event.

My rant is because I thought that this was ComCast being proactive. Turns out it's yet another way to generate revenue, although I'm not sure which way the funding is going since they gave it a good amount of air time. Fox is another customer and TNT used it for NBA shots.

I didn't edit my previous comments because I still think that's the way to broadcast baseball.

what makes you thnk its just a straight commercial for the cam and they dont intend on continuing to use it

I don't. Maybe they're trying to see what shots look best in live situations. From 3rd base, they had the right idea to zoom in when there was a man on 1st. However, they never followed him to 2nd base (almost did once, but switched to a different camera).

I don't see the need for yet another camera where either a dug-out, press booth, or the many other designated camera areas are already in use. This camera is also in front of the fans and can block the view, albeit for a short period of time. The continual movement can be distracting.

Well,
The well-publicized move of Univision from 26 to 14 happened overnight.

Not sure we'll know why this ever happened - but it's complete. :p

It figures. I just switched to only being able to watch in the evenings, so I missed the great event. On top of that, I forgot to set the DVR! :rolleyes:

Hi all,

I am seriously considering Verizon FiOS for our house. They recently put in boxes on our cul-de-sac, and I'm just waiting for them to call me to say that they're ready to run the fiber to the house.

I also had a dream this morning that they installed FiOS to my house and only my wife was at home. So I had to check out the work to make sure they did it right. Anyways ...

Here's my question. I own a Sony DHG-HDD250 DVR that I've been using for Comcast clearQAM. It works great and we love it. If we switch to Verizon, I'd like to continue using it with CableCard ($3/mo) so that we can record all of the additional HD channels that we'd get with the Premier tier. I know the Sony will work with FiOS (I can select the FiOS channel line-up for the TV Guide set-up), but I've heard horror stories with CableCard/Sony combination. Admittedly, they were mostly problems for cable systems, not FiOS.

I have not read any accounts of people using the Sony with Verizon FiOS CableCard. Anyone have stories to share?

Thanks.

ft

Why pay $3 for the cable card addition when the DVR cable box is $3 extra per month? Know ahead of time that the "guide" function of FiOS isn't as nice as Comcast's, but the DVR function works well, and you can record two programs at once if you care to. Are you trying to not subscribe to the high-def cable box via FiOS? If so, why? The picture quality is terrific on high-def, and you certainly get a lot more channels that way!

Why pay $3 for the cable card addition when the DVR cable box is $3 extra per month? Know ahead of time that the "guide" function of FiOS isn't as nice as Comcast's, but the DVR function works well, and you can record two programs at once if you care to. Are you trying to not subscribe to the high-def cable box via FiOS? If so, why? The picture quality is terrific on high-def, and you certainly get a lot more channels that way!
The FiOS HD-DVR is $13/month. The cable card is $3/month. That's a $10 difference.

I already have the Sony DVR, and it records HD just like the FiOS DVR would, in full quality. The only thing the Sony doesn't have is VOD and the 2nd tuner.

For $10 more per month, I don't know if it's worth it. I guess I could try the CableCard first and if need be, I could replace it with a FiOS DVR (and just use the Sony to record the QAM locals) or I could get the FiOS DVR in addition to the CableCard (assuming the Sony/CC/FiOS set-up works well).

ft

I found a few horror stories back on DSL Reports (search the Verizon FiOS TV forum), but they were old posts and nothing about SONY.

When I was with ComCast, I used a Pioneer DVR-533H for clear QAM also but ditched it for the FiOS HD DVR. However, it was SD so it was an easier decision. Can your DVR do "live pause"? Nice to have.

BAD NEWS!

I have used a HDD 500 for a year with comcast and didn't use cablecards so when I had FIOS TV installed in the beginning of January 07 I didn't expect any problems but!!!!

Install went fine, 2 cablecards for the Sony which worked great but the Sony relies on Gemstar or TVGuide which is broadcast on a vertical blanking signal from local channels for the clock set and schedule, FIOS doesn't pass this data through. Spent 2 weeks talking with FIOS techs and a PBS station engineer from Phila and no resolution. So as the days passed all the guide data for programs disappeared.

Ended up selling the Sony and picking up a Tivo S3, which works pretty well. I wrote to TVGUIDE techs in NYC and they said there were no plans to support FIOS in this unit.

Unless someone can verify it now works or if you have an exernal antenna that you can hook up to the other RF, you may be out of luck.

Jack

anyone in the area missing HD Net and HD Movies tonight (833 / 834)?

Both are blank screens here for me in Northern DE.

I'm trying to figure out how local the issue is.

I am getting 833 but not 834

Thanks JWhip-
Still missing both here in DE. Had a ticket opened a few minutes earlier - but not sure what the resolution will be or how quickly.

Odd though that you're at least getting 833. Usually we all see the same problems. :D

yes 833, no 834. 8:15 PM

Hey kids-
For the past week, I've been trying to get VZ to correct the program guide info for Univision, Channel 14.

I realized this has NEVER been correct - as they were showing program info for "CW - WUPV" instead of "WUVP" - basically, a totally incorrect channel. It was showing "Tyra Banks", etc. I was like, hmmmm...Univision doesn't show that!

Last night, I was finally told that it had been corrected - but nothing changed at least in my Delaware lineup - even after STB resets.

Can anyone check their guides in PA to see if it's fixed? More than likely it will be in Spanish.

Here it shows as WUVP, and yes, it is in Spanish!

Yes, it is in Spanish and the program guide is correct.

Thanks Jim and Geek for the posts. Apparently they had fixed it in PA - but it didn't flow down to the lineups here in Delaware.

They apparently found the issue last night, and I woke up this morning to a correct guide listing!

(This was my good deed for the week since I don't even watch the channel!) :D

The crazy thing is I don't think the guide data for Univision had EVER been right.

I watch Telemundo on occasion. They seem to have their act together on closed-captioning. Maybe because they're NBC Universal. For example, Zorro (still around!) has both CC1 and CC3 available for English and Spanish. Great way to learn Spanish. A blend of the culture with the language add up. In this case, Southern California in the early 1800's (colony of Spain at that time).

The DVR does play back closed-captioning, but I have to use the analog outputs. Too inconvenient to switch the STB, especially between CC1 and CC3.

Anybody else experiencing audio drop outs accross the board tonight (early this AM)? I'm struggling to watch the Spurs/Suns on TNT-HD - sounds like somebody is rapidly pressing the mute button every second.

I'm experiencing the same thing on all channels (non-HD & HD). Curious to hear if it is limited to my living room, or if others have the same problem.

Anybody else experiencing audio drop outs accross the board tonight (early this AM)? I'm struggling to watch the Spurs/Suns on TNT-HD - sounds like somebody is rapidly pressing the mute button every second.

I'm experiencing the same thing on all channels (non-HD & HD). Curious to hear if it is limited to my living room, or if others have the same problem.

Borrowing a page from my old Comcast days, I tried unplugged/re-plugged the box - sure enough, everything is back to normal now. Funny, I used to perform that activity at least once a week with Comcast - it had gotten to the point that it didn't even bother me anymore - I just accepted it as normal.

I think this is the first time that I've ever had to do it since switching over to Vz.... I can deal with one re-boot every 6 months or so --- here's hoping it stays that way.

EDIT: TNT-HD is working fine, but both ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD are dark black screens... 1 am. All other HD and regular channels seem to be fine.

Wait until you start seeing the video "stuttering". The sound will be out of sync and all of a sudden the picture looks like it's frame dropping. Reset your box for that one, too.

Lots of picture pixelation and audio dropouts yesterday. Anyone else have this going on in various areas, or was it just here in Yardley?

Jim Hef-
It was a total service interruption yesterday across PA / DE / NJ. Started around Noon - I first called it in then and had a ticket opened.

It got progressively worse throughout the day. Called in around 5pm, was told - oh, they haven't even looked at your ticket yet.

At one point, the picture was breaking up so badly you couldn't even watch 10 seconds uninterrupted. I gave up on it and went outside.

If you check out DSLReports.com - and the FIOS TV forum, you'll see a large group of us all posted about the problems. Apparently it was still terrible at 10pm last night and 1am this morning based on posts.

I watched a bit of SportsRise this morning while getting dressed - seemed like perhaps it was fixed.

The entire issue of this happening almost every weekend is getting quite annoying.

Yes, the picture and sound cut out quite a bit, and made watching almost impossible, at least from an annoyance standpoint, for most of the evening. I tried listening to the Who concert, and I lasted for half a song before I turned it off. Sopranos and Entourage later in the evening was much better, but still flickering. Today, it seems to be cured. I need to sign up on DSLReports so I can log into some of those threads.

I threw out this question on DSL Reports as well, but does anyone else in the area think the HD channel quality has been degraded since the fiasco on Sunday?

Last night I noticed the HD's just weren't as sharp as usual - somewhat grainy - and just not as "popping" as usual - Food HD always gave that "WOW" effect, and just didn't have it last night (or this morning).

this morning HBO HD was grainy - as well as some of the others.

A poster from DE also stated his wife thought they looked worse last night.

I'm just wondering if something happened Sunday and in order to "temp" fix it - they had to reduce the quality of the HD feeds....who knows...but I really hope it goes back to where it was.

Wow some goodnews for me, Verizon sub-contractors have been running Fiber down my street yesterday, I Live near Villanova and its great to see the trucks out there running the Fiber lines, There is a brand new THICK LINE also higher-up then the other wires, So i am unsure if my area will have a high compacity then other areas even here at work there isnt a THICK LINE and we have decent speed. I am still Getting Provisions here for 15M/2M. When is the upgrade to 20M/5M going to take effect? I wonder to how long it will take for Verizon to open-up the FiOS to my house and to be able to have an install date? Also I had purchased an outdoor Omni-Directional Antenna from Radio Shack, And i am getting great PQ with the only issue in my way is Tree Line and Wind. But the Antenna is setup Temporarily on a pole on my deck by the pool, I am going to have it mounted on the Chimney and it should be higher then the Tree Line or just at it. So I should be getting alot more Channels also and barely being effected by the wind problem due to it being securily Connected and all. Any Other Tips, I might be buying another Outdoor Antenna as well the same type and putting it at another location near the House and combining them using a power pass splitter so i can Power them both and have them as combined signals, I highly doubt ghosting or to much signal will be an issue. But if anyone has any advice on this please pass it along. Thank you. Also JWhip Thank you and sorry for myself being a pain in the neck over asking you for the same information over and over again overtime on here. It is just i was very anxious, Also what i am wondering is if i am on the Lower Merion Rollout service or Would i be on the same as you JWhip?

LMMolineux - Try posting your antenna / reception questions over on the Philly OTA thread- you'll get a much better response (your combining technique won't work as you expect): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10535479#post10535479. Also check out the HDTV Reception Hardware forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25

LM I am not sure what you mean. Send me a pm.

this thread is for Fios data and tv service in the Phila. area right? So if data is ok to talk about here I wanted to ask about what the one poster 2 up mentioned about 15/2 upgrade to 20/2.

Will that be automatic? or a choice at an additional cost. Wont be worth it if its extra. for what were paying for 15/2 they should upgrade it to 20/2 at no addition considering 15/2 is no longer such a big deal or so fast. ESpecially in europe they have lots of isp's that provide higher then those speeds for less while here 30/2 is very expensive and seems to be mostly only for businesses/offices not residential.

Also I saw someone mentioning what seems to be a downgrade in HD quality. I have noticed this too and was concerned. Is it just as my neighbors on both sides and more on my street and neighborhood got fios the signal isnt' as strong? or got messed up when they installed my neighbors? Dis Verizon just have a good HD picture in the beginning to suck ppl in and now they downgrade once your under contract?

Also why does ABC HD sometimes have so much grain and noise. I know when it had some glitches during Heroes or Lost (i cna't remember) that my friend 5-10 min away had it at the same part cus he remember when he saw mine off dvr so I figured it was an ABC HD thing, in which case they really need to get their act together, that or just the cable feed all comes from the same place in the same area for both comcast and fios?

Also, while i used to call comcast all the time with their easy to remember 800 comcast # and complain when things malfunctioned which in my experience actually always resulted in a satisfactory fix and/or credit. I jsut haven't bothered calling Verizon. Part cus i dont know the # by heart and part cus i just can't be bothered and feel like nothing really will be done.

For one thing the DVR is really unsatisfactory especially when talking about the fact that there is no swap button which becomes very inconveneint and does freeze up quite often resulting in the series of button presses to all happen at once in a row a few min later among other problems. Comcast always had a swap button that i remeber for a logn time now and when they had similiar freeze problem long time ago with dvr boxes it wasn't as bad and has been remedied for some time. Seems Fios is still after all these months still in the early stages and suffering things that comcast has long since fixed plus fios isnt even smart enough to copy comcast with swap button feature etc. cus they are so busy trying to and claiming they beat comcast that they can't even seem to match them at some things.

Where is the HD on demand, still nothing after all this time is unacceptable. i am just not really that impressed or satisfied at this point after several months of FIOS.

CAn someone please explain to me exactly what really is better about FIOS when compared to comcast. I know the PQ is supposed to be better but truth came out that that is mostly for std chans and while some say HD was slight better most said its same and now we have reports of hD not looking as good so i wonder if comcasts isn't now better.

I mean i know getting into FIOS that the main benefit was better std def pq at the expense of losing swap button and HD on demand among other things. I thought then that the cons of FIOS when compared to comcast outweighted the pros as better std pq didnt' seem worth losing a # of other more important things but when with it anyway to try something new, thought it was slight cheaper and that it would get better an get hD on dmeand soon.


I was impressed and pleased with the additoin of the FOOD HD, HGTV, and Lifetime HD chans compared to comcast just getting the VS/Golf HD chan but other then that and maybe funimation chan which mostly plays the same stuff, i'm not sure that i would really miss FIOS at all or find the pq not as good if i switched back to Comcast. i really would love to compare them side by side on same tv from same connection at my house to see what if any difference. Unless Fios is noticeably better, it would seem comcast has the better working hddvr box and features.

As far as data well i know fiber is supposed to be better but i had a super fast connection somehow onc comcast cable modem for the lowest price because we were grandfathered in before they even had teired speed/pricing.

The 15/2 is fine but for you pay for it they need to up that to 20/2 at no price increase.

Quatre, if you are that disappiointed I would switch back to Comcast. I have none of the probles you do. The HD PQ looks great, perhaps you are just getting used to it. I have several recordings from the beginning archieved and see no loss in PQ at all. The SD PQ is no contest. I have no problems with the DVR. My Comcast box used to freeze up all the time. No such problems with FiOS. While I would like the swap function, I have no problems recording two shows at once and switching from the channel that is being recorded on the second tuner. The way the FiOS box works it that the first recording is on the second tuner, leaving the one you are watching available for channel surfing. This way, the swap feature is not really needed unles both tuners are being used at the same time. As for HD on demand, it will be offered some time this year. I could care less as I never watched on Comcast anyway. On Demand is way overated IMHO. That is what the DVR is for. As for movies, the PQ and AG on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is way better than any HD on Demand movies have looked on Comcast that I did see. Voice your concerns with Verizon. The fact that you can't memorize thier service number is laughable. Write it down and keep it on your cable box or under a phone. Come on, that is a really lame complaint. As for the internet, for my purposes, the 5 mbs speed is enough. Don't even have the 15/2 and see no reason to at this point.

Quatre - I believe Heroes is NBC, but in any case I also saw the glitch on my DVR. Just watched it tonight. What are you using to connect the STB to your display? HDMI, component, or something else? I find it hard to believe that you are seeing grain and noise. Maybe there's something missing.

If you want to really get into the details of FiOS internet, check out the DSL reports Verizon Fiber Optics forum: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber. There's also a Verizon FiOS TV forum, but it's a different crowd- more general purpose whereas AVS forum focuses on home theater. I'm happy with my 5/2 Mbps service.

CHeck out my thread at DSL Reports.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18375278

Others in the DE / PA also agree with me that our HD quality has been ruined since the Sunday outage / issue. It's evident something was swapped out / replaced that is ruining the clarity.

Food HD and HBO HD looked like complete hell last night - and Movie Channel HD was having a grainy snow storm. I have a ticket open - if anyone else can call in, or use the FIOS Direct forum on DSL Reports - it'd be appreciated.

It was a total service interruption yesterday across PA / DE / NJ. Started around Noon - I first called it in then and had a ticket opened.

It got progressively worse throughout the day. Called in around 5pm, was told - oh, they haven't even looked at your ticket yet.

At one point, the picture was breaking up so badly you couldn't even watch 10 seconds uninterrupted. I gave up on it and went outside.

jeepmatt, You posted that there was a regional outage on Monday 5/21. That's interesting since I believe I live down the road from you and Verizon installed my service during that period. I was up and running before 4:00 with phone, internet and TV. From what the Verizon tech told me, my neighborhood was split down the middle for telephone service and Delaware Avenue (Rita's Water Ice at the 202 intersection) to Silverside Road was lit by the Talleyville CO more than 18 months ago. I'm a couple of streets closer to the Charcoal Pit and couldn't get service until May 7th. Anyway, just thought I'd chime in on this thread.

jeepmatt, I don't see it at all. HD still looks great to me. PM me with the info on your contacts and I will see what I can do as well if you continue to see a problem.

My HD is fine except for HBO. On my TIVO 3 box it is very pixelated and unwatchable. Every other channel is perfect. I do not have this problem on any of my hi def Moto boxes. Anyone else have a Tivo series box with this problem?

Chips-
The issue was actually on Sunday - it affected most of the Philly area. So if you got hooked up Monday, you're good to go - and luckily missed the problem. And yes, i'm serviced out of Talleyville. Glad to see you got hooked up!

JWhip-
I'm working with the Verizon Direct forum folks on DSLReports - I do have a ticket # open as well. But others on DSLReports - in West Chester and Middletown, DE - agree with me regarding the HD quality.

It's most noticeable on TNT HD, Food, HGTV, Lifetime Movie, HBO, and The Movie Channel. In fact, The Movie Channel looks downright awful - all grainy and washed out.

You can watch the channels just fine - it's just that they are very cloudy looking and washed out.

We are having none of these problems in Yardley, and checked just now by running through all the channels to see their content.

Well it's happening in Wilmington, DE - Middletown, DE and West Chester - so not sure what to tell you!

Be glad you're okay, I guess. :D

Does Verizon have any sort of roll-out schedule? I live in Haddon Township, NJ (near Cherry Hill, NJ). I've seen both Cherry Hill and Haddon Township both being areas that are going to get FIOS, but I can't seem to find out when that is going to happen.

-Dan

With jeepmatt's soft HD problem (sorry, don't see it here tonight), I was wondering if any of the HD channels broadcast a test pattern. I remember that someone did a while back, but don't know who it was and if it's still available.

I was thinking that it would be useful to record on my HD DVR and save it for calibrating my display. You can use FF, pause, etc. to skip through the patterns and hold where needed.

HdNet, isually on weekday mornings.

Hey all-

VZ actually called me at my home last night - they did some work - didn't realize the issues I brought up were there - and at some point late yesterday afternoon - the correction was made.
Food HD has that popping vivid look to it once again!

Have a good holiday weekend all!

Geek - another brutal Phillies loss. Ugh.

Either they are doing more work today - or things were switched back..

but the HD quality looks bad again this morning. :(

And last night here the picture was freezing and then jumping to catch up. Very annoying! Perhaps this is somewhat universal to the entire system???

Anyone having HBO or CSN pixelation?

I must be missing the pixelation. So far, nothing on the channels I watched today (WTXF-DT for Phillies). Will keep an eye out.

JWhip - Tnx for the HDnet test pattern info. Will track it down and see what it looks like.

No problems here.

JWhip - Did a quick search for the HD test patterns and it looks like they moved to the weekend. Next scheduled broadcast is this Sunday, 6:50 AM. Will setup the DVR as soon as it rolls onto the program guide. http://www.hd.net/originals.html
Sun., Jun. 3rd 6:50 AM ET HDNet Test Patterns - Wonder how your home theatre is doing? Wish you had test patterns to help set it up? Well, HDNet is here to help. This short program will help you get the most out of your home theatre setup by providing you with the same professional test patterns HDNet uses to set their gear. Just in time to get ready for the HDNet live coverage of the NASA space shuttle launch on June 8th, 6 PM (current status).

No pixelation tonight. In fact, the Phillies game on CW57 looked as good as Sportsnet. I noticed a new high-home (?) camera shot that was focused on the pitcher mound. I have no idea why they didn't pan back to show both the pitcher and batter- it would have been interesting to see at least once.

Jeepmatt, looking at your Broadband postings, it looks like you are still having the same issues. You are welcome to check out my set up as all the HD channels look great here. Razor sharp CSN, TNT, ESPN, HDNet, HGTV, Food, etc. I do not get any movie channels so I can't compare those.

JWhip-
Yeah, still awful (as of this morning) here in DE.

It's apparently an issue only affecting certain CO's out of the Philly headend.

I'm about at my wits end. The picture looked just awful this morning.

All dull, grainy, and blurry every time a scene changed.

Has Verizon sent a tech to your home to verify the picture quality? I'd insist they do that!

Does anyone know if/when they will be running FIOS to the Pottstown area? I looked at the google "I have FIOS" map, and it looks like the have N, W, SW, and S areas of the Philly Suburbs covered, but not the NW. If Coatesville has it, we should too!

were did you see this map
always more help to provide links to something you reference

is this what you were using...

http://www.broadbandreports.com/gmaps/fios

were did you see this map
always more help to provide links to something you reference

is this what you were using...

http://www.broadbandreports.com/gmaps/fios

Yeah...that's the one I was looking at. I didn't link it because I thought I just saw it a couple of pages back in this thread.

I took the plunge and signed up for verizon tv and internet, hook up is scheduled for 6/13...

Edit: noticed that it took me 6 yrs for my tenth post... :D :D

Busy doing something else besides reading and writing into a Forum??? ;)

Well,
if you're following my thread on DSL Reports - you'll see a tech came to my house yesterday - checked all my signals, splitters, the FDH down the road - all levels perfect.

Saw the ******, grainy cloudy compressed HD and SD quality - even went to the CO and saw it there.

Meanwhile, another customer out of West Chester - had the same exact scenario. Techs came, levels perfect, saw the terrible pic.

Another poster out of Middletown, DE is seeing the same, but didn't want to waste the time calling it in or having a tech out.

Now, my hands are tied - i've been campaigning for almost 2 weeks now - maybe now VZ will believe there really is a problem somewhere either at the Philly headend - or God knows where.

This has been a very trying time. After seeing a neighbor's sub-par Comcast HD pic this past week, I have no where else to go.

What did the tech tell you about his sense of your picture problems? Is he reporting it and getting back to you, or did he give you a statement about "signals are to spec, not sure what the problem could be?"

Has anyone here actually used the HDNet test patterns? I finally captured it for the first time this morning.

As it's my only "true" HDMI source (see below), I was somewhat surprised to see how far off the overscan was. There's a dedicated thread over on the Display Calibration forum and I asked there: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=800757, but I was wondering if anyone in this forum has some experience.

I was expecting a some patterns that I could do a more serious contrast and brightness check. The 0 to 9 and color bar combo pattern just didn't cut it with me- it was really tough to do anything useful with it. I guess you can only fit so much in 10 minutes.

For now, I'm setting the HDMI input user controls to what I get using DVE and component inputs. Should be close enough. I hope. The overscan has me worried. For that, I'll need to go into the service menu, unless someone knows a way to have the STB do overscan? How do I know it's not the STB with the problem?

I also have my PC's NVidia graphics card connected to the HDMI-2 input via DVI / HDMI cable, but it's also got some serious overscan (a lot). AVS forum users are also complaining about this, so it's not just me, and that the going opinion is that it's an NVidia driver problem. I can't use this as a reference, so I'm stuck with my STB.

As I recall, you have a DLP rear projection set. Does it allow an overscan adjustment for each source? I don't think the cable box has any adjustments, and my bedroom Olevia sometimes suffers from a shift of the picture, leaving a few lines of scrambled pixels at the top of the picture, but it's mainly during a commercial break, not the program. I haven't tried the HDNet test patterns, but I will check them out and record them for playback.

Overscan is adjusted in the set only. My plasmas have user interface overscan adjustments which are easy to use.

Jim Hef - good memory. It's a Samsung HL-R6768W (67" DLP). Got a response over in the Display Calibration forum. There's a formula for lines of resolution vs. test pattern. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10700703&&#post10700703

It looks like I have a bit of a centering problem with overscan. For the weekend. BTW: Remember to measure resolution while playing the recording. If you hit pause, it tends to cut down the vertical resolution (1/2 frame). I forgot about that- was interesting to see how much of a difference that makes.

JWhip - Sounds like the manufacturers are finally catching up to the consumers.

Verizon is coming to more towns in South Jersey!

http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2007/a-time-for-consumers-to.html

FYI #1 - All 3 Phillies at Mets games this week are in HD. I believe that's the best PQ I've seen from Shea Stadium.

FYI #2 - The Philly area (and other) Google Earth OTA terrain maps have been updated on 04-June-07. In "3D visualization (using Google Earth) of OTA transmitting locations!", http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10127219&&#post10127219, also updated was the FCC transmitter maps in Post #1

FYI #1 - All 3 Phillies at Mets games this week are in HD. I believe that's the best PQ I've seen from Shea Stadium.

on comcast sportsnet?

**** edit...

ah, I see on CSN Philly's home page the games at Shea are listed as being on CSN-HD while the game at KC is listed as being on CSN.

I wish they would be a little more technically accurate, since the games are 'on' both channels, while only some are 'in' HD.

But if that's the best they can do, at least I know how to interpret the info now...

FYI #1 - All 3 Phillies at Mets games this week are in HD. I believe that's the best PQ I've seen from Shea Stadium.

Can any of you experts shed any light as to what the holdup is for all Phillies/76ers/Flyers road games being shown on CSN-HD? Is there an investment that CSN needs to make that they have not done? What is the holdup/timelines for getting what is needed in place?

I believe that the games at Shea last year were also in HD - what is it about Shea that is so special that CSN is able to show the road games in HD?

I am an HD snob at this point and can't stand watching SD programming --- it bugs me that CSN has yet to figure this out. I'm pretty sure that all home and road Red Sox and Padres games are covered in HD by their local networks (I kind of recall this from the simulcast that used to get picked up on the INHD channes back when I had Comcast as my cable provider).

Thanks for any insight on this one!

My only insight is that I understand CSN makes a special effort on a few road games a year. This is one of those times. Other than that, I have no idea. There may be a few others in the forum with more info.

FYI - If you are really into HD, set your DVR to record the NASA Space Shuttle launch this Friday on HDNet. They have a special arrangement with NASA for live HD coverage. Starts at 6 PM, launch estimate 7:38 PM.

From what I remember regarding HD from Shea:

Comcast built the studios for the Mets new network in NY (SNY). I believe that they even may own the network, so there are no large expenses to get the HD from NY to Philadelphia. I would assume that if the wanted HD from other networks they would have to pay the specific network, and on a per HD viewer basis it would not be cost effective.

Howwen-
I think you nailed it. Comcast is part-owner of SNY - so I think that's why they can 'share' the HD feed.

Geek-
Thanks for the headsup on the 3 games this week. J-Roll's homer in the 7th last night was awesome!

JWhip has said repeatedly that it's the costs of sending the feed back to Philly that is the sticking point. I don't understand why some games at Shea would be any different.

Maybe Comcast is just biting the bullet on these games. Or maybe there are other production costs besides the transmission that are mitigated in cities with a Comcast sports network (NY, Chicago)

I think some games from Wrigley Field and Dodger Stadium were in HD last year as well.

The most aggravating aspect of the HD home games and non-HD road games occurs early in the Phillies seasons when the Sixer and/or Flyers are playing on the road. Some Phillies home games are relegated to CN8 (non-HD) so that the other teams can appear on CSN, yet because they're on the road, those games aren't in HD either.

Ah, San Fran, not LA...

from *last year*

Originally Posted by zippychimp
Didn't see this posted...was in the 5/5 Inquirer:

Comcast SportsNet will soon announce that it will broadcast 12 Phillies road games in high definition. The high definition road games will be May 23, 24, and 25 at the New York Mets, June 23 at Boston, June 27, 28 and 29 at Baltimore, July 14 at San Francisco, and Aug. 21, 22, 23, and 24 at the Chicago Cubs.

NY, Chicago, and Baltimore have Comcast - related sports networks...

Anyone having HBO or CSN pixelation?

Verizon reset my cablecards in my S3 TIVO on Tuesday and the pixelation has disappeared.


All is fine again.

$$$$$ pure and simple.

If anyone is looking at the HDNet Test Patterns over HDMI, check recent postings in the HDNet Test Pattern thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10735255#post10735255

I was unable to see the full range of the pluge test ("0" to "10" pattern at the bottom of the color bar pattern). The "10" was totally gone from the picture. Nada. But it was clearly visible on the analog outputs (S-Video).

Turns out that changing the color space from YCC 4:4:4 to RGB made the "10" magically appear (Off, Menu, Advanced HDMI Settings, Color space). Seeing this effect (or not seeing it) on only the HDMI output makes sense.

$$$$$ pure and simple.

I guess what I'm seeking is a reason why HD from Shea is different than HD from Kansas City?

You were very specific previously that the tranmission cost back from road games was too expensive and CSN did not want to pay for it. But now it seems they're either willing to pay for it for some games and not others, or there is more to the equation than just the tranmission costs.

There are increased costs involved in dual transmission feeds. Substantial ones I have been told and just not worth it for most road games. In the case of NY, the SNY facilities were constructed by Comcast with this idea in mind. It is alot easier for Comcast to take this feed than from a place like KC which has no HD production facilities on hand.

Anybody experience long duration of video / audio drop outs this evening on the NBC evening news (810), between 6:30 PM and 7 PM tonight? Was getting drops of at least several seconds. No pixelation, just total black screen. Couldn't confirm via OTA tonight - weak signal.

Update: newsman just posted the problem in the OTA thread. Can't blame Verizon for this.

Phillies on both ESPN-HD and Sportsnet tonight. Interesting that Sportsnet is showing green screen on the ad board behind that batters. ESPN has the ads.

PQ looks better on Sportsnet. ESPN-HD appears to have a higher color saturation and a bit of softness to the picture. Maybe it's because they have to go back to a national distribution network and add those crawlers on the bottom of the screen (more processing in the chain). Since this is simulcast and using the same source (STB) and display input, I would call this a good baseline for comparison.

It was interesting when they both shared the same camera angle. It looked as bad on CDSN as on ESPN which makes me wonder about ESPN. Their coverage looked barely HD. The green screen was live at the game. ESPN used it for national ads.

If anyone was still curious, I had 2 top level techs and an engineer from Jersey at my home yesterday to look into my degraded picture quality that i've seen for 3 weeks now ever since the pixellation "issue" on Sunday, 5/20.

Some SD channels are so bad, it's like You Tube. The people move, their faces and clothes, or the logo in the corner of the picture bleeds. Some HD's you can now see brief artifacts in the background. It's not all SD's - but a good handful.

I was told this is typical on large TV's and was just MPEG artifacting, and basically, I have to deal with it. Since this was also witnessed at the CO, it means everyone in my area is seeing it too. Before the issue on 5/20, it was barely noticeable - and I tried to reiterate this many times, but whatever was done to "fix the issue" caused this one - and apparently they don't think it's a problem.

Other customers in West Chester and Middletown, DE are seeing it - so I can only say users in their areas are also "dealing" with it. Their answer was to actually give me an S-Video cable, and I was told to watch SD via that to minimize the distortion. I just paid off my 50" plasma and i'm watching TV via an S-Video cable. Classic.

At this point, I don't know what to do. I'm not going back to Comcast - b/c they are more expensive and not any better. I spent 3 weeks of my time trying to get this fixed, and now i'm just exhausted from it all.

Jeppmatt, I would like the opportunity to check out what you are seeing. PM me so we can get together. Thanks.

Interesting that ESPN wasn't blacked out on your FIOS...I didn't check my ESPN as I was expecting it to be blacked out. Anyone know if it was blacked out on cable or satellite?

...I spent 3 weeks of my time trying to get this fixed, and now i'm just exhausted from it all.
I would cry BS! GeekGirl as I recall has a larger display than yours, and isn't having these problems. My 37" Olevia has almost film quality standard def reception, and I get no distortions on any of the sets in house, whether standard or high def programming. I can see their logic in that an S-Video connection will "smooth" the reception, but that isn't what you are paying for, nor what they would want to advertise as their picture quality. Continue to pursue your complaints!

Thanks for the support Hef-
But I don't know who else to turn to. I just had a Tier 3 Video manager at my house from Jersey who told me i'm stuck with it.

Who do I call next in all seriousness?

Well, pic quality is downright in the shitter tonight here.

On top of random pixilation i've been seeing on the SD Sportsnet channel (65) since this morning - my SD's are awful tonight.

Even CSN-HD blurs the picture when they move from one camera to another.

JWhip - thanks for the offer and potential help. I'm trying to do additional research to see who I can contact about this.

There has to be an issue between me here in Delaware and the Philly VHO. If it takes someone here in my house with an analyzer measuring each channels bitrate, i'll push for that.

Matt,

The CSN-HD blurs were seen on Comcast as well, must be from the source.

J-
Thanks so much for taking the time to stop out today. Hopefully i'll have my great FIOS TV pic back soon!

OK, I'm officially lurking in the background over here too.

HI everybody, De KA3SGM. There still is a Fios T V problem.

There goes the neighborhood. :) Welcome to the other side.

Now on Day 28 of lousy TV service.

Despite all of the diagnosis info and ideas sent to Vz last Thursday (Thanks Joe) - still nothing has been done to improve the quality of FIOS TV in the West Chester / Wilmington area.

I've now (once again) reached the point of disgust - and users on DSL Reports are now saying "they don't even care anymore" about the bad picture.

I'm now taking it upon myself to contact the big CEO Ivan (yeah, I know i'll get an assistant) - and get this where it belongs.

Joe - i'm not sure if you've made any headway - but if you haven't please keep on trying for us.

TTT for Jeepmatt! I feel you pain as I sit here and watch a really nice picture!

Jeepmatt,

Just got FIOS TV installed here in Wayne, PA. Switched from Comcast. I'm having issues with the 6416 box and Digital Audio - losing synch with our receiver. Also, the HDTV picture is very soft compared to Comcast. (50" plasma display). I can live with that. However, for the last 2 nights (since we've had service) - FOX has been horrible - digital drops on both audio and video. The family is screaming at me, "why did we switch?!) Just starting the process of getting some sort of service from Verizon. Don't know if this is related to your problems, or unique to us (maybe a weak/crappy signal). Figure I have 30 days to resolve and cancel. Comcast offered TV for $29 and a free DVR for a year. hmmm.

Hey there-
Apparently the Fox 29 problem is widespread. Many folks are reporting it on DSL Reports.com.

Not sure if it's an actual FOX problem - or Verizon - but it looks more like a Fox one.

How do you have your audio connected? Optical? No audio problems here.

In regards to soft HD, yeah - I have that problem too..

But, you're in Wayne, where JWhip is - and he has crystal clear sharp HD.

But, i've now been having my problem for a month now - VZ apparently can't find anything wrong (don't get me started) - but from what i've been told Tier 3 management is supposed to be in our region today researching the problem.

But after a month with no resolution, i'm not expecting anything to be done.

i hate to say it but in a lot of ways comcast seems better. worst part about it, is that you are locked in with verizon in a cell phone like contract.

even worse is they still dont have any HD on demand. wow that is totally unacceptable and equally as bad still no swap feature/button on the remote and the comcast remote swap button wont work cus Verizon was too dumb to implement into the cable box.

we've had some major audio drop and picture freeze up on dvr playback, plus the usual freeing in menus only 10 min later for al your button presses to get input all at once.

these are problems comcast had 3 years ago b ut always credited us for them and fixed them and have since fixed.

i mean i realize you are talking about the lesser of 2 evils here with these monopoly companies b ut i feel bad for the guy whose family is screaming at him wondering why they switched.

i dunno i'm having trou ble seeing any pro at all to verizon other then slight beter std pq which isn't worth all you lose (hd on demand, swap feature etc.)
though lately i noticed G4 a std def chan looked good andbetter then i remember on comcast.

we had to get a new dvr box to replace the one t hat was having problems and they thought maybe cus we were early customer the new ones would be better but its all the same i'm sure and these boxes just start malfunctioning once a lot of stuff has been recorded and deleted plus the fios dvr boxes dont deal with recording conflicts well etc.

problem with our new box is its fan is super loud, like a pc. i know there is an hdd in there but still all other hd and hd dvr boxes from both comcast and previous fios ones weren't that loud.

so were prob going to need another new box and re set all our recordings again.

meanwhile comcast in phila area is getting new stb's by Pace, so no longer MOtorola and yet when you call fios and ask why no swap b utton and praise the comcast stb's they say dont you see its the same manufac in Moto.

and i say yeah making it even more sad that while your so busy claiming your better hten comcast and trying to beat them you forgot to first match them and equal their performance on said same hardware.

comcast has just been doing this longer and if they switcvhing to pace boxes they will prob be even beter and separate themselves from fios.

our pricing isnt that good eithe rand even though with have all 3 services plus mobile we aren't on the triple play plan cus i guess is newer. we can get on it but it will extend our contract for 24 more mo or something ridiculous.

going to try to stick with it longer but in meantime paying for comcast anyway so that we can get basic and standard on the tvs without boxes (another thing fios cna't do) and have kept one comcast hd dvr box for the hd on demand and to see how a dvr box works smoothly. but cost wise this is ridiculoous and we need to get rid of it.

i think we will prob get triple play for nowand get bette rprice and extend contract, not like we going to wait 6 mo and then get out. ultimately will prob have to pay etf to get out early anyway and eventually go back to comcast when there is even more reason then ther ealready is.

meanwhile all these ppl in areas that dont have fios wnat it. just cus they dont have it, but sad thing is its worse then comcast, i dont see whats beter, even the internet which should be a clear winner for fios doenst' seem that much better. in fact somehow we were grandfathered in and getting fater speeds for less money on comcast for internet too.

fios needs to step up their game before ppl just start paying $150 etf and going back to comcast and just vowing never to go back and hating verizon evne more then they already did after paying etf

verizon thinks its a smart tactic to use their cell phone contract idea and that it will keep ppl locked in. ppl will just pay the $150 to get out and then will just never come back ever and hate verizon becuuse of the fee and will never be dumb enough to get back into contract with them.

comcast meanwhile welcomes you back any time , no contract and offers you deals to come back.

I have said this before and will say it again, if you are unhappy with your service, change back. No one is forcing anyone to stay with Verizon. I have been 100% happy with their service and have no intention of switching back. The PQ on the SD miles ahead better on Verizon than on Comcast with a better picture on some HD channels like CSN, KYW and WCAU. THe Pace box is no better than what you get from Motorola. With Comcast I went through 3 boxes and 2 DVR's. Nothing last forever. As for analog service, I have a 34" CRT that has no tuners at all and need a box for it. The analog cable feed into it out of a VCR was dreadful. With Verizon with a 6200, it is crystal clear. I will take the box over alalog any time. Also, you will need the box from Comcast soon enough as they are moving all but the OTA analog channels to digital within a year. As for the internet, faster speeds is not the issue as volume can choke theose speeds. I get 5 mbs on Verizon and it is much faster than the 6 I was getting on Comcast. As for HD on Demand, I knew Verizon did not have it when I signed up. They will have it by the end of 2007 but will not have as much as Comcast. Frankly, I use the DVR so have no interest in HD on demand. I would rather have more HD channels and the capacity to add severla hundred more which Verizon has the capacity to do NOW. I would rather watch movies on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray whioch look and especially sound much better than any HD on Demand movie Comcast offers.

yep, gotta go with jwhip on that one. comcast is facing an uphill battle regarding quality. they don't have the infrastructure. verizon is playing catch up, but is making progress. the SD and HD on verizon are much cleaner than Comcast. broadband is much faster and more reliable with FIOS.

pick one and go with it.

reddavid, In the last 2-3 weeks, in my neighborhood just outside West Chester, Comcast has started segmenting their plant. They added at least 2 NEW fiber nodes that I have seen so far, and are upgrading the drop cables from RG-6 to RG-11 for less loss. SO a bandwidth crunch is in full swing, and they are node splitting.

No wonder why so many neighbors have switched to Verizon Fios TV.

...No wonder why so many neighbors have switched to Verizon Fios TV.
My neighbor continues to have the same pixelation and audio dropouts that Comcast has provided for the last two years or so. I think he's finally fed up, and will switch to FiOS. I told him about the service quality right after I was wired for TV, but he's still on the fence about switching six months later, and I can't understand why! Here in Yardley, we have the same experience, and are as pleased, as JWhip.

My next door neighbor has the same FiosTV Picture Quality problem as me. They were afraid to call in case Verizon wanted to waste a day of their time to come out and investigate.

I now have added a second HDTV, a 23" Samsung LNT2353HX
(720p but still HDTV) , and I see the same poor PQ problem as on my 40" LCD.

Still using the same type of Fios Motorola QIP6416 DVR, but a different one than my 40" Samsung LNS4096D is connected to. I have 3 Verizon DVR's.
The new set has an integrated ATSC tuner, but I have not re-arranged the coax to connect it to the antenna yet.

I will advise the result of that when I can run new coax to the new set.

I am installing a new Winegard PR-9032 antenna with a 28db pre-amp, and a rotator shortly.

I have a 1000' spool of Commscope RG-11(low-loss) for use as antenna feeder, and the 28db pre-amp should set me up for a good 90 mile+ UHF-HDTV reception area. IF anyone needs some good quality RG-11 just ask, I am not giving away the whole spool, but if you need 100' or so, and are local, please ask!!!

I live on top of a hill, so the possibilities are endless. My dad(deceased) used to be able to get Baltimore/Washington on VHF perfectly 25 years ago, and I live 80' higher on the same hlll as he used to be, and with a clear shot towards NYC, that he did not have.

A little tropospheric-ducting should be real HDTV-DX fun!!!

KA / JWhip-
Good luck tonight! Our future PQ is in your hands! :D

JWhip, Thanks for stopping by this evening.

Verizon is still trying to blame my Samsung TV's, as well as my neighbors. But they can't deny the high bit error rates that they are measuring at the ONT's.

There is definitely a network problem, with possible underlying HDTV receiver problems.

But I can't get Samsung to do anything until they have a CLEAN HDTV SIGNAL to use as a baseline.

JWhip is a total asset to this forum, the guy really knows what he is talking about, I personally enjoyed an objective mind in the midst of Verizon's corporate mayhem.

Joe, thank you very much for your time, I am truly sorry if the wife had a problem with your extended stay

I really like the AVS forum, a true, honest exchange of ideas, without the trolls from BBR.

I will clue in everyone as to the great HDTV-DX experiment when I get my BIG HDTV antenna up and functional. Lancaster/Baltimore/ maybe NYC, here I come.

KA3-
Yes, JWhip is an amazing mind!

Glad to hear they finally saw "errors" last night.

Damn all of those TV's going bad.

But wait, I have a Philips! NOT a Samsung. :D

It should be an interesting next few days.

Well guys - i'm off to the shore for a few days. Good luck with everything. I've been told to relax, more or less.

I have free wireless at the shore house - so i'll be checking in from time to time.

KA - So I go offline on a business trip for a few days, come back, and now you're ready to go OTA? Check out the Philly OTA thread, you'll have plenty of fun: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10899503#post10899503. See if you can get WHYY-DT (for that thread).

Also check out the Google Earth OTA terrain coverage maps: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480. Downloads are in post #2, Philly is number 4 on the list.

Saw a really great thunderstorm display from the airplane as we landed in Philly last night (early this morning, lots of wx delays). The T-storms went directly over the airport, so they were in sight as we approached. Intense lightning strikes to ground, unbelievably vivid at night. An opportunity not to miss (from a safe distance).

The T-storms had tripped the UPS for the Sammy DLP. My better half (husband) had dutifully turned off the UPS when the alarm started beeping. I asked him if he waited for the DLP fan to finish cooling the lamp before turning off the UPS. He wasn't sure. Time for training. Just a point that it's background, not gender. :)

we had to get a new HD DVR box recently as it was not working properly anymore. So we lost all our recordings and schedule only to get a box that has the loudest fan i've ever heard on any device we have.

its louder then the tv fan or xbox 360 or even a pc. I doubt this is normal but were putting up with it for now. i can hear it over the tv volume which is not good. just can't be bothered with switching again, losing recordings again and resetting scheduled recordings again.

i know this is par for the course somewhat and happened similiar though didn't need to switch as often in the early days of comcast dvr.

but sucks to switch out a box only to get one that has an unacceptably loud fan noise.

anyone have an HD DVR with a loud fan. i guess its for the hard drive but man it sucks.

what can i do? call them and switch the box out again i guess?

Quatre - For fan noise, there are a few tricks to try. There's a thread over on Broadband Reports discussing it: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18416509

Also in the AVS forum QIP6416 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10517964&&#post10517964

Matt,

The CSN-HD blurs were seen on Comcast as well, must be from the source.

yes, why is this back/
i thought it was fixed awhile ago.

Just when I start to watch the Phillies vs. Mets game, I noticed a purple/blue shadow on the left side of the screen, about 1" wide, running from the bottom to about 1/4 of the way from the top of the screen. Bowed like a CRT pincushion. Damn, the light engine needs replacement. And those Mets... :mad:.

Samsung HL-R6768W 67" DLP, 19 months old. One good thing is that I can take advantage of the American Express Buyer's Assurance program. It's out of the 1 year warranty, but within the 1 year warranty extension by American Express. That's why I used the card for this purchase. Service scheduled for Tuesday afternoon, Amex sending claim paperwork.

This is the reason I recorded HDNet's test pattern. When the tech comes over to look at the problem, he can see the stripe very clearly in the white section color bar pattern. No questions.

For those interested, there's an entire thread dedicated to light engine failures for Sammy DLPs, "Shadow on left of Samsung DLP screen": http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10914028#post10914028

Just checked this morning and FiOS TV is available in Marlton, NJ (Burlington County). I could have signed up online with an install date of 7-12-2007, but from what I have heard about the problems with online orders, I will wait to order by phone for an install date of 7-16-2007 (vacation in between)

They came, they saw, they admit a problem exists. JWhip was here, he saw it too.

And I get to live with it, they officially don't care!!


Oh well, even when it's not working right, Fios still beats Comcast and Dish Network for PQ.

They came, they saw, they admit a problem exists. JWhip was here, he saw it too.

And I get to live with it, they officially don't care!!


Oh well, even when it's not working right, Fios still beats Comcast and Dish Network for PQ.
Well don't that just suck. I've been following this thread closely b/c I'm hoping to get FIOS when its available in my area. If they really don't care about the PQ they are sending out I'll have to rethink leaving the Comcast monopoly. As bad as Comcast is, I've still received excellent service at times. When I first got HD I was actually given the cell phone number of a technical supervisor so I could call him when I was having HD picture problems so he could confirm it promptly with the head-end engineers. It sounds like Verizon could give a @#$%$% .

This kind of jives with what a Comcast tech was telling me a few weeks ago. Verizon is union, Comcast is not. Verizon has been recruting Comcast installers heavily in this area. This tech said there is no incentive for the experienced installers to switch. Comcast pays for cell phones, lets them keep their truck at home, gives them free cable, internet, reduced phone. Verizon does not. And to top it off he said that Verizon techs who work hard and do jobs quickly get backlash from other techs complaining they are making other folks look bad. Just seems like a bad environment for an experienced person to me. Now, take this for what its worth, but he made a strong case to me why the Comcast techs who are left are better then the ones Verizon is recruiting. At least when I call to complain to Comcast they seem to care if my picture doesn't look as good as I'd like it to.

So much for competition being good.

EricFinn, that is a load of pure BS. I would take whatever the Comcast told you with a serious grain of salt. Comcast has lost a significant number of people. They are losing a lot of subscribers also to FiOS in thse area. Look at the new subscription deals they are giving out. I judge the playing fiel not by words but by deeds. It is very interesting out there now. I switched and there is no comparison in PQ. FiOS wins hands down and I have been happy with their technical service.

EricFinn, that is a load of pure BS. I would take whatever the Comcast told you with a serious grain of salt. Comcast has lost a significant number of people. They are losing a lot of subscribers also to FiOS in thse area. Look at the new subscription deals they are giving out. I judge the playing fiel not by words but by deeds. It is very interesting out there now. I switched and there is no comparison in PQ. FiOS wins hands down and I have been happy with their technical service.

Hey, I have nothing to base this comparison on as I can't get FIOS yet. I said it was just based upon one conversation with one tech. I didn't mean to present it as the final word on anything. I'm sorry if it came across that way. All I'm saying is I'm disappointed that Verizon doesn't care about the PQ issues that KA3SGM and you reported to them. I was wondering if it was related to the people Verizon is hiring. It didn't seem like that big of a jump to me, oh well. Sorry about that.

Eric

Ya know, this is getting really interesting.

They are now closing left and right anyone that has a ticket opened regarding the PQ issue. I've been IM'd by a few folks on DSL Reports and they're being told that there is no issue - and that the PQ problem will be solved by the new IMG.

Is VZ really going to play hard ball like this?? I find it dumbfounding.

...I find it dumbfounding.
As do I! My thought is that they are "booked" with new installations and not up to speed on troubleshooters for the installed network. I'm glad that I'm not in Delaware or West Chester since my service has been terrific, and only had terrible reception with Comcast. Comcast has been on my street for the last week rebuilding everything to get my neighbors satisfied. I'll try to get a response from a few to see if they are still having the problems that I encountered for so long before switching.

For anyone that had the $100 rebate deal for switching but never received a check, contact the FiOS customer service center. I did and they immediately credited the $100 to my phone bill. Nice service!

jwhip said:
"I have said this before and will say it again, if you are unhappy with your service, change back. No one is forcing anyone to stay with Verizon"

actually there is a notoriously hated cell phone like contract you are locked into with verizon fios and will have to pay an etf to change back to comcast.

If you argue that the picture is crap and are unhappy with the service provided, you can get out of the contract with no charge at all. If you want a better deal with Comcast, etc, that is another story.

i figured that was possibility but know from verizon wireless that verizon are just plain pricks and the worst to deal with.

bottom line is comcast as ppl explained cares more and has better ppl and gives you credits and deals out the wazoo if you have any problems and fixes everything asap giving you freebies and discounts for your trouble.

least that was my experience with them which was always mostly good. Fios is a diff story.

just haven't been that impressed.

no hd on demand and no swap button is unexcusable this far in. Just cop comcast already and stop being so busying trying to beat them and thinking that you are that you forget to first match them before you can beat.

HD VOD is coming. I would rather have more HD channels than VOD. I can use the DVR to record stuff and can skiup past the commercials. More and more of the VOD stuff has commercials that can't be skipped.

A quick review of the HD fireworks shows last night:

WPVI-DT - This was the first year in HD. Audio problems early on. There's nothing like "live" TV when the feedback sneaks in on air. Dolby 5.1 was active. Sounded fine. Great shots from that sky cam looking down on the concert. Was able to see the rain moving in from a distance, nice resolution. On-stage looked great. Was wondering about all that rain washing in over the equipment. Didn't notice any problems except one of the Hall & Oates violinists looked pissed off at the rain hitting the violin. Recommended to watch next year.

WHYY-DT - Great fireworks coverage (watched it during the rain delay in Philly). Dolby was indicated on the stereo, but only L+R front was active. No 5.1? Seemed to be missing the subwoofer bass during the canon shots of the 1812 overture. Guess it's tough to mike. Needed a barf bag to see Tony Danza up that close. :)

Hi all... I just placed my order for FiOS TV installation for next Friday. Adios Comcast! I ordered two HD DVR's and a standard STB. I live in South Jersey - does anyone know what type of STB's that Verizon provides? I'm trying to figure out what connections are available on the STB's. One of my HDTV's has a DVI output and the other has HDMI.

Thanks!

Welcome to AVS forum! The HD DVR is a Motorola QIP6416, which has a dedicated thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10947683#post10947683. It's HDMI output, but Verizon will supply the cables. The user manual can be found at Verizon: http://netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/help/index.jsp?epi_menuItemID=c567d167631f692124525d7253295c48&problem=fiostv (Motorola QIP 64xx user guide)

There's also a ton of info over on the Broadband Reports' Verizon FiOS forum:http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiostv (also checkout the FiOS Internet forum).

Most importantly, do NOT cancel ComCast until you have a solid picture from Verizon. They have been known to not show up at the schedule install time.

Thanks GeekGirl for the 'welcome' and for the info... I'll be sure to check it out in more detail... good advice on waiting on complete installation before canceling Comcast - did exactly what you suggested when I switched to FiOS internet a couple months back. :)

For the 6416 box - does anyone know which is the better choice when trying to get DVI TV connected to an HDMI source -is it better to go with a DVI to HDMI adapter or utilizing a cable that has DVI connection on one end and an HDMI connection on the other?

Hey kids-
For anyone that was still interested, after 51 days, they finally confirmed an equipment issue at the Philly VHO that is affecting customers on my leg of the fiber ring.

Once I had my local area manager involved, in less than a week - he got the issue identified. Now i'm trying to find out how long it will take to get fixed. Early prognosis is that it won't be until August - but I need to confirm that.

51 days for them to finally listen to their customers. All I can say is i'm exhausted.

For the 6416 box - does anyone know which is the better choice when trying to get DVI TV connected to an HDMI source -is it better to go with a DVI to HDMI adapter or utilizing a cable that has DVI connection on one end and an HDMI connection on the other?I believe that DVI and HDMI cables can go in either direction (DVI to HDMI, HDMI to DVI) (?). In any case, you will need to run a separate output for the audio, as DVI does not carry audio (HDMI does).

For the 6416, you can tap off 2 of the audio outputs- they're all active. I have an optical TOS-Link going to my audio system and another going direct to the TV. This allows me the choice to either fire-up the full system or just watch TV.

As I posted over on DSL Reports...

I'm Done - The story?

There is no equipment issue, the new IMG next month will fix all of my problems. There was just "confusion and misunderstanding" around what was told to me yesterday.

I can't even get a service credit.

I seriously can't take any more of this - it's far too consuming of my time to care anymore.

2 months of staying home for 5 different techs, re-explaining the situation over and over, providing diagnosis information for the engineers - this is all something a customer shouldn't have to do.

I'm way too intelligent to keep putting myself through this circus act and made a fool of.

Guess what Verizon? You win!

Jeep - the saga continues: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18515083-Continuing-Picture-Quality-Degredation-In-Philadelphia~start=320#end

KA3SGM brings up an interesting point about going from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4. That could bring up an entirely new round of discussion. There's always something going on. It's OT for KA's thread, but on-topic for here.

I had called originally for an install date VZ gave me 7-12 which was no good due to a vacation, I called and had it rescheduled for 7-16. VZ left me a voicemail that due to a "large demand" they will need to reschedule. I am waiting for a call back from someone as the CSR I called on Saturday could not "get to the screen" to reschedule. I am in Marlton, NJ. I hope that this is not a bad omen.

Consider it a good omen that you were called. Lots of postings on Broadband Reports that Verizon simply did not show up. This sounds like an improvement.

UPDATE:

I called VZ today new install date is AUGUST 3, 2007. They must have seriously underestimated the demand in this area to be almost three weeks behind when I called to schedule on the first day the database said that my area was eligible.

Just thought it was the coolest thing to see Hary K. interviewed on ESPN during the 4th inning :cool:. A lot of his answers were "I was there when...". You can't replace that. He still managed to call a few plays during the interview. Audio seemed a bit boomy on the low end. Maybe it's the mike, but at least this was one heck of an opportunity to know exactly what the source material should be.

And they get to loss number 10,000 on national TV... :mad:

Well, after scoring 23 runs in the first two games, at least the 10,000 loss was a complete success, albeit for the other team! Two runs after spotting them 10 didn't hold off the inevitable! I expected lots of hype before the game regarding the possibility of this milestone, but the commentators sort of ignored it.

Comcast has finally been attending to the folks in my neighborhood by replacing just about the entire distribution system along the street. They've been working here for about 2 weeks, and maybe soon will button it up. I asked my neighbor if he's seen any better picture, and he has, although he told me they needed to replace amplifiers and entire lengths of cable. He isn't ready quite yet to get FiOS for whatever reason!

Also saw Comcast roll some trucks down my street this past weekend. Didn't see them replace the line amp across from my house, but it looked like they were working on the taps and hardline (coax) replacement. Maybe they'll get back to the amp when they're ready.

If Verizon screws up, at least I know that Comcast is finally upgrading / rebalancing their system. And I'll still have Sportsnet. Darn, just when I get hooked on HDNet...

All is not well with Verizon tonight. Looks like the stuttering problem is back. For me, audio sync is way off. Dropped frames, but at least no pixelation. HD and SD content. I tried to watch a movie I recorded, but that had the problem as well. Warm boot, cold boot, giving it the boot - nothing works. :mad:

Also being reported over on Broadband reports. The natives are restless. Is it coincidence or luck that Comcast is prowling my local area upgrading the system? Doesn't sound so bad right now. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18515083-continuing-picture-quality-degredation-in-philadelphia~start=340#end

GeekGirl-
As you know, my service was almost unwatchable last night. Major pixellation across many channels, audio dropouts, you name it.

I just gave up and went to bed.

From the little I watched this morning before work, it appeared to be back to normal.

When watching CBS last night, the picture froze at one point, but other channels also had some pixelation for a bit. Today it's fine, so it is definitely intermittent at the most. We'll see tonight after the thunder storms continue if it's just a reception problem.

A quick FYI - the problem happened in VA last night. Reported on the QIP64616 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11066652#post11066652

There was confirmed tiling / pixellation issues out of the Philly VHO last night. I was told they were going to "fix it" during maintenance time overnight - however still seeing it this morning.

The circus continues.

I've been receiving updates from across the Philly region that this afternoon the majority of channels are becoming unwatchable on FIOS TV due to tiling and audio dropouts.

Verizon should be embarrassed by all of this.

Jeep - just posted over on Broadband Reports thread. Macro blocking and tiling is on SciFi channel now. Didn't notice it anywhere else, so I called it in (link on previous post).

Apparently they replaced an actual piece of hardware at the Philadelphia VHO overnight to correct the tiling problems.

So far, things appear to be back to normal.

That's obviously good news for all of us around here, but has anything being done for you Wilmington guys yet in terms of the poor picture quality?

Jim-
Yes - the hardware replacement fixed all of my other issues as well. My PQ is back to where it was before May 20th.

And to think their top level management told me it was my TV causing the problems.

The whole circle of events makes total sense - well, to everyone but Verizon.

Jim-
Yes - the hardware replacement fixed all of my other issues as well. My PQ is back to where it was before May 20th.

And to think their top level management told me it was my TV causing the problems.

The whole circle of events makes total sense - well, to everyone but Verizon.


Curious. Is Verizon doing anything to compensate for your troubles?

So far, i've been denied any type of credit, as they refused previously to admit to any issues.

But - now that I know it was the hardware all along, I'll be pressing again for some type of compensation.

Good luck Matt! They can ask me, I can vouch for how bad your PQ was!

Well I am still waiting. At home it still isnt avilable yet. But i am hearing that Swarthmore,Pa which started their build 2 months after my area got started on their build that Swarthmore is already partly active if not all active, But my area is lagging, what could be the main issue?

...what could be the main issue?
Infrastructure! There may not be a fiber network running in those areas.

Matt, just reference your posts in this Forum as your paper trail when asking for your rebate! That should at least give them a sense of how many folks were affected by the problems, and that it wasn't just your "overly critical" eye!

Anyone hear anything about Verizon adding the Big Ten Network to the channel mix, or perhaps as an added subscription?

dunno if vrizon is getting the big ten channel but comcast is getting penn state university on demand and there was a whole rticle in the paper ecently about how comcast owns the e channel, golf channel, part of mgm, startin some sports channel with portland tralblazers or somethin among other things on top of there shiny new office buliding they are building downtown set to be the tallest in philly.

Hey guys-

It's been awhile.

Update - my Picture quality issue is now back again as of Tuesday of this week. It was fixed from last Friday until Tuesday, and is now back again. Very frustrating indeed. KA3 up in West Chester noticed it as well. There is definitely a bad piece of equipment or something at the Philly VHO that is screwing things up. When they replaced a piece of equipment on 7/20 to fix the major tiling issue - all was perfect. Then, wake up Tuesday - it's back. I have no idea what things they are messing with at the headend.

VZ has given me a very generous credit on my account as well. In all honesty, i'd trade that in for a great product any day.

In regards to the Big 10 Channel - I REALLY hope they pick it up. As a PSU alumni, it would be awesome to watch more sports - especially since FIOS doesn't carry CSTV, which I also don't understand. As far as knowing about it, Verizon doesn't seem to announce anything until after it's in our lineup. But, FIOS TV is in Indiana and Pennsylvania, 2 Big 10 states.

Infrastructure! There may not be a fiber network running in those areas.

Matt, just reference your posts in this Forum as your paper trail when asking for your rebate! That should at least give them a sense of how many folks were affected by the problems, and that it wasn't just your "overly critical" eye!

Anyone hear anything about Verizon adding the Big Ten Network to the channel mix, or perhaps as an added subscription?
Jim Hef,

They have run the fiber and have some pre-strung in what i would call it as a drop i guess that would go to peoples homes, and the CO is about 1 or less miles away, It is in Bryn Mawr on Route 30 and i live right before Villanova Uni. so i am surprised that they havent switched us on yet.

...especially since FIOS doesn't carry CSTV, which I also don't understand....
I was hoping for an announcement that they would be offering an NCAA package deal such as available on other networks, but none so far. I are a Lion 2, but since only a few games aren't carried locally, we wouldn't be missing many. Even the Florida International game is scheduled as I understand.

Sorry to hear that your problems are back. Yes, I would also suspect that something else is causing the failure of another piece of equipment in their system, and hopefully they will be able to find out what that is quickly. When you refer to the Philadelphia VHO, wouldn't we here in Bucks County also be under the same distribution? We're not getting these problems.

Molineux, the cable is simple. It's getting everything channeled to a distribution hub for each neighborhood that I understand is the delaying factor. The equipment that supplies the fiber signal to my home is located about 3/4 mile away from my place.

Anybody catch that close-up shot of the moon at the bottom of the 4th inning in the Phillies game? Unbelievable. That's one expensive lens, not to mention one very steady camera mount. ComCast Sportsnet HD.

When you refer to the Philadelphia VHO, wouldn't we here in Bucks County also be under the same distribution? We're not getting these problems.


Jim-
Yes, we're all fed out of Philly - but there are different paths out of the VHO to each of us. That is where the problem lies (I believe).

Hence, why myself and another customer in West Chester would see it, but you, or say JWhip in Wayne wouldn't. Just picture a big bucket with multiple pipes coming out of it. :D

GeekGirl - I was at the game last night for my birthday! WOOHOO! There was some sweet lightning - but they eventually called it after 7. Utley who??? HHAHAHAHAH.

All looks great here!

Hey all-
The new audio-channels from MTV showed up in the lineup today. They are in the 600's after the Music Choice offerings.

Seems to be a good selection.

Thanks! On in Lower Bucks. MTV's Urge Network: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18358200-New-audioonly-channels~days=10. Seems to compliment Music Choice not compete with it. Good variety and seems to be more in line with what I'm looking for. There's no measurements on the audio bit rate yet.

(Phillies on ESPN-HD tonight. What are the odds to lose 2 right fielders in the same game?)

After a total rebuild of the cabling of my neighborhood, it seems Comcast still has issues that need to be resolved. Although I haven't talked to my neighbor to see what needed to be corrected, Comcast's trucks have been in front of my house working on the distribution amplifiers one more time for the last two days. I repeat myself...so glad I'm on Verizon now!!!

After a total rebuild of the cabling of my neighborhood, it seems Comcast still has issues that need to be resolved. Although I haven't talked to my neighbor to see what needed to be corrected, Comcast's trucks have been in front of my house working on the distribution amplifiers one more time for the last two days. I repeat myself...so glad I'm on Verizon now!!!
Jim what type of rebuild did they do? Like replace taps and trunk and feeder lines? Did they replace drops at all?

Comcast replaced the entire system along my street...cables, amplifiers, junctions, etc. Several neighbors have had new lines to their homes from the pole mounted amps. I think they must still have some problems though, since they were working for two days again this week. Hopefully they don't sabotage the Verizon feeds!!! :D

I'm so psyched about getting the FIOS package I'm a wreck. Tried getting some idea from a Verizon CSR and although she seemed to want to help nothing in her database could give me a clue.

Anyone have the scoop on the rollout in this area?

I can't wait to drop the hammer on Comcrap!!!!

:confused:

Hey, all. After months of waffling, I finally ordered FIOS this morning (pushed by the release of the TiVo HD). My install is scheduled for 8/15. Verizon actually came to our door a few weeks back to let us know they had upgraded the neighborhood, and two of my neighbors already have and like it, here in Malvern.

The question I have is this: there's apparently been a great deal of discussion of Verizon disconnecting Comcast's coax connections when installing FIOS, unless you specifically request them not to. Does anyone have information on this? What is the upshot of this? If they remove the copper and then I decide to return to Comcast, what happens, exactly? Is the concern that it will slow-down a switchback? Or will it remove my old phone pairs, or what?

Verizon didn't do anything with the Comcast feed coming into my home, and I didn't tell them not to touch it. Of course, they disconnected it from my distribution system to tie all the outlets into their system, but the coax line still existed until I removed it later. The coax still comes into my property.

Verizon sent a rep through my neighborhood also, and knocked on my door to say the service was available. I asked him if he wanted to come in and see the picture quality...they didn't send them with a database of who was already a customer. I had the service for about a month before they knocked on the door! :rolleyes:

Hey, all. After months of waffling, I finally ordered FIOS this morning (pushed by the release of the TiVo HD). My install is scheduled for 8/15. Verizon actually came to our door a few weeks back to let us know they had upgraded the neighborhood, and two of my neighbors already have and like it, here in Malvern.

The question I have is this: there's apparently been a great deal of discussion of Verizon disconnecting Comcast's coax connections when installing FIOS, unless you specifically request them not to. Does anyone have information on this? What is the upshot of this? If they remove the copper and then I decide to return to Comcast, what happens, exactly? Is the concern that it will slow-down a switchback? Or will it remove my old phone pairs, or what?


I don't know about V messing with Comcast's lines but I have heard that they will remove your copper phone wiring which would make it very difficult to switch back from FIOS if you should wish. I think it would be a good idea to tell the techs to NOT remove the existing lines to keep your options open.

That may just be a vicious rumor spread by a Comcast employee! Why would they take the extra steps to remove the copper lines. All they have to do is run the new interface and then connect into your copper runs within your home, for both TV and phone.

That may just be a vicious rumor spread by a Comcast employee! Why would they take the extra steps to remove the copper lines. All they have to do is run the new interface and then connect into your copper runs within your home, for both TV and phone.


http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/BUSINESS/707120320/1003/BUSINESS

Verizon move riles competitors
Phone providers say removing copper wires puts them at a disadvantage
By AARON NATHANS, The News Journal

Posted Thursday, July 12, 2007
Officials at the competing companies have filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission, charging that Verizon is interfering with their right to compete.

In the filing, on behalf of 17 competitive local exchange carriers, attorney Patrick Donovan wrote that large telecommunications carriers have a strong motivation to remove useful copper wires.

"By doing so, they make it more difficult or impossible for a third provider to compete with them in the provision of voice, data and video services to consumers," Donovan wrote.

Verizon spokesman Harry Mitchell said aesthetic reasons motivate his company to routinely remove the old copper wire running to a customer's home. Two aboveground wires running to a home are unsightly, he said.

Verizon leaves the copper wire in place if it's located underground, he said.

If customers say they want to keep the copper wire, or have it reattached, Verizon will try to talk them out of it, Mitchell said.

But if they insist, Verizon will allow it to remain or reattach it, he said. When asked whether the reattachment could take a long time, Mitchell did not immediately provide a time range.

Smaller telecommunications companies, such as Broadview Networks and Cavalier Telephone, say the copper wires are their primary method of providing telephone and Internet service. Federal law requires Verizon, AT&T and other large regional land-line telephone service providers to share their copper networks with the smaller companies.

Cutting the wires means consumers won't be able to easily switch to a smaller competing network, said Barry Orton, professor of telecommunications at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. It's harder for the smaller competitors to make use of Verizon's fiber-optic network, Orton said.

"Consumers have to insist on keeping it there, otherwise it will be gone," Orton said of the copper wire.

Interesting! If the overhead wire stays, who is responsible to maintain it? You won't know if a squirrel got hungry on it until you want to switch back to a copper service, and then who will be charged to replace it? Right now, Verizon repairs the incoming lines for free when you have their service.

For the 3rd time in 4 months - the Philly VHO is sending out garbage to its customers.

Apparently starting as early as this past Sunday - once again i'm seeing tiling, breakup, and audio drops on a number of HD channels (Starz, Food, HDNet).

Others on DSLReports in the region are also seeing it. I opened a ticket last night - the NOC acknowledged the issue - however nothing was done overnight to correct it, as within 10 seconds of turning my TV on this morning I saw it again.

Verizon should be totally embarrassed by the crap they are sending out to us in Philly.

THREE tiling / breakup issues in only 4 months. They are obviously cutting corners with however they "fix" it each time.

The only thing that satisfies me is that since I caught them in a lie about my previous issues - I won't have to pay any $$ to VZ for a few months from now. ;)

If you are seeing this, please call in or go to Live Chat and report it. It seems they won't fix anything until it's a "group issue".

PS - GeekGirl - it was great to see the Phils in HD last night on the road. Luckily, the tiling wasn't affecting CSN-HD, as it usually doesn't.

THey should all be in HD but as of yet, the bean counters won't spend the $$$. However, the HD build out is nearly complete and should be on line towards the end of September. That means all studio shows in HD!

A group ticket is now established - and the Engineers have acknowledged "continuity issues and errors" with a piece of equipment.

I can only wonder if this is the same piece of equipment that's failed previously and they are merely band-aiding it instead of replacing it.

Stay tuned.

jeep - I'm seeing a rather large static "tile" right now, but the problem is at the display. My Samsung DLP display is about to get its 2nd light engine replaced due to defects in the adhesive used in the light tunnel mirrors (there's a dedicated thread on this- I'm actively giving my opinion over there :) ). Symptom is a vertical shadow or "mask". CSN-HD looks OK tonight.

Update: I switched to ESPN-HD after the Phillies lost. Saw splotches of tiling every few minutes. Not enough to complain about, but if you were looking for it, there it was.

For the 3rd time in 4 months - the Philly VHO is sending out garbage to its customers.

Apparently starting as early as this past Sunday - once again i'm seeing tiling, breakup, and audio drops on a number of HD channels (Starz, Food, HDNet).

Others on DSLReports in the region are also seeing it. I opened a ticket last night - the NOC acknowledged the issue - however nothing was done overnight to correct it, as within 10 seconds of turning my TV on this morning I saw it again.

Verizon should be totally embarrassed by the crap they are sending out to us in Philly.

THREE tiling / breakup issues in only 4 months. They are obviously cutting corners with however they "fix" it each time.

The only thing that satisfies me is that since I caught them in a lie about my previous issues - I won't have to pay any $$ to VZ for a few months from now. ;)

If you are seeing this, please call in or go to Live Chat and report it. It seems they won't fix anything until it's a "group issue".

PS - GeekGirl - it was great to see the Phils in HD last night on the road. Luckily, the tiling wasn't affecting CSN-HD, as it usually doesn't.


i can confirm the tiling/pixelation and definately the annoyin audio drop outs.

nice continuing problems fios.

For all you Philly FIOS TV subscribers - we will all have to endure yet another evening of breakups and pixellation.

They had to order a part - which was overnighted and is to be received today. They will not be able to install it until overnight tonight during "safe time".

The management and process flow of the Philadelphia VHO is nothing short of a joke.

Has anyone notice that when Verizon FIOS airs football like the EAgles vs. Steelers game last night , that the video is shot at a different speed or something making it look like its in slow motion or jumpy. its hard to explain exactly.

It was much worse on my 67" tv then other smaller ones so i'm trying to find out how much the tv had to do with it but I think its mostly the source in the way they are filming sports especially football and/or the way verizon is broadcasting it.

But its looking more unnatural then realistic and overall not very preferable.

In a word, no.

The picture I was receiving was clear and bright and very good. In fact, that Steeler running back the fumble with about two minutes left looked perfect! (I had tuned back in late after watching a movie with the family!)

Is the Guide gone for everyone else, or do I have a local problem?

The game - in HD - looked fine here last night as well.

Anyone else with the Guide and info problem? I can't even access the Menu to setup or check anything.

Anyone else with the Guide and info problem? I can't even access the Menu to setup or check anything.

No issues here in upper dubin.

Thanks for that reply. We've had several brown outs last week, and the power shut off as I was typing this responce. I'm afraid I have a configuration problem with the router, but I'm waiting to hear from Geekgirl who is also in this area to see if she's encountering the same problem.

well just so you guys know the problem wasn't just with my tv. The NFL game had the same video speed defect on a different tv. It was just less noticeable on that smaller tv. All of you prob have smaller then 67" tvs and just dont notice it.

i'm not saying its not partially the tvs fault of at least magnifying the issue but no other chans or programs do it.

Just NFL games (so far). There is something with the way they are filming/broadcasting it that is different and comes off as a different speed video and is not so great to watch.

the only thing i can think is that it is something similiar to the blu ray film like 24hz that some tvs can view. supposed to look very film like and realistic.

this is like that but ends up making it seem more artificial speed wise for NFL football.

anyone that sees it notices it instantly on my tv so its not just some little nuance i'm being picky about.

need to find out more but its definatley not just the tv, its the fios hd cable box and feed first and the tv is just magnifying the issue due to its size etc.

i'm hoping there is a setting on one or both the fios hd dvr box and the tv to address this issue.

JimHef - Just replied to your PM. No problems here both yesterday evening and tonight. I confirm the power outages (home appliance clocks were reset) and the router shows a bunch of messages around 11:30 , 13:30, 14:30, 16:30 today that look like it was rebooting and / or refreshing the IP addresses.

FiOS TV up and running just fine. No guide problems.

I wanted to add that the 94.1 WYSP Eagles game on Sunday was within 1-2 Seconds or so of the HD broadcast. Very usable.

well just so you guys know the problem wasn't just with my tv. The NFL game had the same video speed defect on a different tv. It was just less noticeable on that smaller tv. All of you prob have smaller then 67" tvs and just dont notice it...
the only thing i can think is that it is something similiar to the blu ray film like 24hz that some tvs can view. supposed to look very film like and realistic..
i'm hoping there is a setting on one or both the fios hd dvr box and the tv to address this issue.Quatre - I've got a 67" TV, so there goes that theory :). You're in luck, I see this problem all the time. I'll bet you've got the FiOS "stuttering" problem which has been reported both in AVS and Broadband Reports forums. Dropping frames turns a really nice HD picture into low-quality film. You can't explain it, but the PQ looks really bad. You won't notice it on SD pictures as the problem isn't quite bad enough (yet).

The going theory is that it's a video memory buffer problem in the Motorola HD-DVR which causes it to run out of room and drop frames. Bets are blaming the amount of memory needed for the guide- they "borrowed" the video memory for the IMG. Let's see what happens when the new IMG comes out (whenever...).

The only fix that seems to work is to reset the box. That means power cycle. I've also got a "quick" fix to reset the memory if you don't want to wait for the guide to load - go into the setup menu (OFF, Menu) and cycle through the video output formats (1080i -> 720p -> 480p -> 480i -> 1080i). That should reset the memory.

I've been "reseting" the box every few weeks ago and just did again tonight. Sometimes it's tough to see, at other times you can't stand to look at it. Give it a shot.

GeekGirl is 100% correct and the size of your screen means nothing in this regard.

Quatre - I've got a 67" TV, so there goes that theory :). You're in luck, I see this problem all the time. I'll bet you've got the FiOS "stuttering" problem which has been reported both in AVS and Broadband Reports forums. Dropping frames turns a really nice HD picture into low-quality film. You can't explain it, but the PQ looks really bad. You won't notice it on SD pictures as the problem isn't quite bad enough (yet).

The going theory is that it's a video memory buffer problem in the Motorola HD-DVR which causes it to run out of room and drop frames. Bets are blaming the amount of memory needed for the guide- they "borrowed" the video memory for the IMG. Let's see what happens when the new IMG comes out (whenever...).

The only fix that seems to work is to reset the box. That means power cycle. I've also got a "quick" fix to reset the memory if you don't want to wait for the guide to load - go into the setup menu (OFF, Menu) and cycle through the video output formats (1080i -> 720p -> 480p -> 480i -> 1080i). That should reset the memory.

I've been "reseting" the box every few weeks ago and just did again tonight. Sometimes it's tough to see, at other times you can't stand to look at it. Give it a shot.

no, its not degraded pq. its sharp HD, its just the video frame rate seems to be a different speed which ends up looking somewhat artificial.

I'm thinking its like the 24p 120hz that some tvs can do.

I guess it isn't totally just the size of the tv but the model as its picking up on what type of cameras they use for broadcasting NFL football. So far its just NFL and no other programs or chans.

Its been explained to me this way once which makes soem sense but doesnt' fully explain why its just NFL football or what can be done about it.

"you may be observing the difference between analog and digital video cameras. I've noticed that fast-moving sports sometimes have this look to them of still pictures in rapid succession vs. a smooth moving picture. Ironically, I think it's lack of blur that gives it this look. Digital video cameras seem to be able to capture frames with less (or no) motion blur. Motion blur looks crappy on freeze-frame but actually makes moving pictures look more fluid.

It's also possible your new Samsung TV has better/lower latency so you can notice this more than with other sets.

To test my theory, freeze-frame and frame-advance a fast-moving picture (if your PVR can do that) and then do the same on another station that has smoother motion. See if the smoother station doesn't have more blur when the image is frozen.

So in conclusion... we have an amazingly good TV that lets us perceive every possible feature/shortcoming of various video sources"

but thanks for everyone being stand offish about it and saying noone else had hte problem and its not the size and blah blah.

its a real issue on fios at least and anyone with a good enough tv will pick up on it for NFL football broadcast. you will prob hear more about it and from others with tvs that pick up on the problem then you will feel bad for attempting to flame me for mentioning something real just because you didnt 'see it or your tv didnt pick up on it.

the quote above seems closest to an explanation but still not pinpointing the problem or what it is and why.

its definatley whatever equipment they use to film and broadcast NFL football. it is a different speed filming and/or broadcasting that some newer tvs can pick up on accurately but to the detriment of the viewer.

its supposed to look super realistic liek you are there not unlike tvs capable of 24p and bluray that can do display that. But in this case on fios for nfl football it ends up looking artificial and the video seems to play at an unnatural speed.

anywhere near upper chichester have fios yet?
specifially aston

no, its not degraded pq. its sharp HD, its just the video frame rate seems to be a different speed which ends up looking somewhat artificial.I just flipped over to the NFL-HD channel during Phillies commercials. I saw it. Good eyes. What I think(? maybe) you are looking at is something called "motion-blur". It's an artifact of (meaning - a result of) the display scan rates and digital sampling process. You can search AVS forum or google for motion-blur. Here's the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV_Blur. Note that 24 fps sampling and 120 Hz display rates are mentioned as you pointed out.

One big caveat- this problem doesn't seem to be a show-stopper to watch. Maybe you are seeing something that's way more severe than what I'm looking at. It might help to give a few details on your setup. I'm using the Motorola QIP6416 HD-DVR on a SamSung HL-R6768W (67" DLP) display over HDMI.

Watching around 9:10 PM, I also noted a number of audio dropouts and pixelation, which are NOT normal. The pixelation wasn't major, but it was painfully annoying. Couldn't see any macro-blocking. I only watched for a few minutes and saw these problems. Very intermittent. Other than that, PQ was excellent- on-par with CSN-HD.

Unfortunately, I also saw some minor motion blur on the CSN-HD Phillies game tonight. BTW, nice shot of the full moon as it rose over the upper-deck of the stands.

Heads up- live NFL-HD games on this week: http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/networkschedule. I'll also be checking the sound sync of WYSP 94.1 FM vs. the Eagles game tomorrow.

same FIOS QIP6416 HD-DVR but Samsung HL-T6756 using hdmi direct from cable box to tv.

Important to note that I didn't have the same problem on the HL-S6767 which was last years 67" model and you have the HLR from 2 years ago.

There is a new feature or video processing of the HLT model which is probably supposed to be a good thing but is actually just picking up on the motion blur more then the last 2 years samsung 67" models and making it look worse.

These things happen, newer is not always better, although I think in this case its a new improved feature or ability of the tv to display but its just the scan rates and digital sampling process stuff you talked about is not mixing well with however they are broadcasting NFL football at least on certain chans. I dont know if its every NFL game. I had noticed it before and ignored it and I noticed it for certain during the Eagles vs. Steelers pre-season game.

I checked other tvs and noticeably just slightly on one and not at all on another both with fios hd boxes. So its definately partially the tvs fault in amplifying the problem but it doesnt' do it on other chans or comcast hd dvr box with another HLT model (HL-T6187)

so that helps me realize it is the fios.

yes i have another 2007 HLT Samsung dlp model in the LEd hlt6187 and yes i have a comcast hd dvr box.

This really allows me to make some direct comparisons. Granted their could be differences between the hlt6756 and hlt6187 especially being the 61" being smaller and led but its still an hlt sam dlp model and i can compare directly with the comcast hd feed on an hddvr.

prob getting rid of it at some point but in meantime i really should be doing more comparisons etc.

anyway i hope at some point i can get used to the football broadcast issue and fix something either with the comcast box or the tv itself cus come the Fall, we watch a lot of football around being big Penn State fans (first game this saturday) and Eagles (more once the real season starts).

I"m under a 90 day return policy still with teh hlt6756 so return is an option if i really find out its the tvs fault but i dont think it is 100%.

I"m just curioius to know the details on what of the nfl broadcast and what feature/aspect of the tv is causing this very noticeable problem.

I can't find a way to describe it but the movements and motion and speed in general is just very artificial seeming. i can't decide if its fast or slow but my wife said it looked kind of like slow motion but its really not that.

just real quick in looking at the helpful wiki pedia link you posted. I feel a couple things mentioned there is really what I am seeing more then other things mentioned but is helping pin point and describe the issue.

"Slower camera Shutter speeds common in hollywood production films (blur in the HDV content of the film)"

but its more speed issues i'm seeing then actually any blur. nothing looks blurry. is all clear HD. its more the timing and speed of the film, but maybe that is called blurring too even though the colors aren't acutally blurred and are still crips clear.

"Temporal motion blur due to 3:2 pulldown and/or motion-speed irregularities in framerate conversions from film to video"

motion-speed irregularities in framerate, being the key points of that sentence for my issue.

the more i read this and think about it maybe it is an almost unwanted ability of the tv. But I didnt even think this tv could do 24p like all the new upcoming high end sonys and that 24p is more a bluray thing.

I have asked about this in the owners thread of my tv and the rest of this is probably more appropriate there but thanks for the response and info. I will report back my findings at some point of how much of it is actually the broadcast and not the tv and especiallyt the comcast comparisons for nfl games.

but i'm telling you, they are filming and/or broadcasting nfl speeds at a different frame rate or motion-speed.

for bluray movies its supposed to make things look more realistic like someone is moving in same room as you but for football its making the motion and framerate look artificial somehow and altered.

the animated series of dots on that wiki page help explain it a little and it helps describe what we are seeing with some stuff seeming slow nad others stuff fast. I really am curious to get to the bottom of this of what they are doing to NFL broadcasts that makes this noticeable and what it is about this years hlt 67" samsung that makes it more noticeable then the last 2 years of same model more or less.

I just flipped over to the NFL-HD channel during Phillies commercials. I saw it. Good eyes. What I think(? maybe) you are looking at is something called "motion-blur". It's an artifact of (meaning - a result of) the display scan rates and digital sampling process. You can search AVS forum or google for motion-blur. Here's the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV_Blur. Note that 24 fps sampling and 120 Hz display rates are mentioned as you pointed out.

One big caveat- this problem doesn't seem to be a show-stopper to watch. Maybe you are seeing something that's way more severe than what I'm looking at. It might help to give a few details on your setup. I'm using the Motorola QIP6416 HD-DVR on a SamSung HL-R6768W (67" DLP) display over HDMI.

Watching around 9:10 PM, I also noted a number of audio dropouts and pixelation, which are NOT normal. The pixelation wasn't major, but it was painfully annoying. Couldn't see any macro-blocking. I only watched for a few minutes and saw these problems. Very intermittent. Other than that, PQ was excellent- on-par with CSN-HD.

Unfortunately, I also saw some minor motion blur on the CSN-HD Phillies game tonight. BTW, nice shot of the full moon as it rose over the upper-deck of the stands.

Heads up- live NFL-HD games on this week: http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/networkschedule. I'll also be checking the sound sync of WYSP 94.1 FM vs. the Eagles game tomorrow.


here is some further explanation helping clarify and make sense of things

"you may be observing the difference between analog and digital video cameras. I've noticed that fast-moving sports sometimes have this look to them of still pictures in rapid succession vs. a smooth moving picture. Ironically, I think it's lack of blur that gives it this look. Digital video cameras seem to be able to capture frames with less (or no) motion blur. Motion blur looks crappy on freeze-frame but actually makes moving pictures look more fluid.

It's also possible your new Samsung TV has better/lower latency so you can notice this more than with other sets.

To test my theory, freeze-frame and frame-advance a fast-moving picture (if your PVR can do that) and then do the same on another station that has smoother motion. See if the smoother station doesn't have more blur when the image is frozen.

So in conclusion... we have an amazingly good TV that lets us perceive every possible feature/shortcoming of various video sources. "

"Motion blur is a property of the camera that shot the material, and is not related to the refresh rate and non/interlacing of the display.

Displaying interlaced vs. progressive scan does not introduce blur, it introduces other artifacts like weave and twitter.

The reason 24fps is enough to make movies look smooth is because of the motion blur captured by the camera. That is why you need about 60fps for a video game to look smooth (since games typically do not have motion blur).

The effect I’m speaking of in my above post is when a video source (which is usually 30 fps) has less blur than a typical film or video source, so it looks kind of jumpy."

I don't see this at all and am watching on a 50" plasma. No motion blur nothing even close to what you are describing. I have not seen it on the large display in the Wachovia Center control room on the full bandwidth feeds from the cameras at the venues so it is not a camera issue.

it doesnt matter that you dont see it on other tvs. We've established its partially something the tv is doing. But being its just nfl football its definately mostly to do with the cameras they are using (all digital) and how they are broadcasting it.

But, of course just when we start to figure out what it is, you have ppl that have to chime in and say that they dont see it.

We know most ppl dont see the motion blur or lack there of, it doesn't mean its not there and perceptible on certain newer sets.

You said you see no motion blur, your forgetting, yes actually you do and thats why the picture looks normal, the motion blur helps the pic look normal, the fact that i'm not seeing any motion blur as proved by the pausing and freeze fram fwd or reverse and its still clear rather then blurry as usually means im getting no motion blur which is causing the motion and framerate to look artificial or just off so to speak.

I want to amend my perspective on NFL-HD's picture quality. After looking at the game in detail (after the Phillies :)), I think the overall PQ is definitely not on-par with CSN-HD. It's definitely sub-par. There's a bit of softness to the picture and the video / luminance dynamic range seems compressed - less room from black to white. Most probable explanation is that this is a retransmission of an HD broadcast as noted by the CBS-4 logos everywhere. Compression can be attributed to the softness and dynamic range (?).

That still doesn't explain the "jumps" in the video, pixelation, or audio dropouts. It may be a SamSung problem. Broadband reports is showing some problems with SamSung, like this one: http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r18908960-Still-experiencing-occasional-blipshiccups-in-video
Also, there's a thread about "compatibility" of displays: http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r18906712-Issues-with-Samsung-and-Fios-TV and also http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=890158

FWIW, remember that NFL Films has most of the highlights, so consider the source material when doing the comparisons on NFL-HD.

GeekGirl
FYI: The wysp 94.1 is purposely put in sync with the analog broadcast that comcast puts on their system. Last year on 610 am WIP Sports Radio Merrill Reese explained that
this is the case because in the philly market that is where most of the viewers are tuning into to see the Eagles and muting the tv volume and turing on our Merrill & Mike.
Owenf