KCNC 4-1 is always at least 3 DB louder using my H20 OTA listening to prime time DD 5.1 material than any of the other stations. I have often wondered if there was not a standard level that all stations would use. If there is, obviously they are ignoring it.

Phil

Am I the only one who gets totally frustrated with KTVD-DT, Channel 20-1's poor DD audio? I mean, KUSA-DT had the same problem for a long time, but recently they seem to have done something about it.

KCNC 4-1 is always at least 3 DB louder using my H20 OTA listening to prime time DD 5.1 material than any of the other stations. I have often wondered if there was not a standard level that all stations would use. If there is, obviously they are ignoring it.

FOX cranks the sound up for the commercials. I mean, WAY up: Have to slice 20 points off just to bring the volume back down to the same level as the program...

KTFD-DT disappeared at channel 14-1 on my receiver last week, but the signal popped up as "15-3"...

Then there was KRMT-DT with its 16 subchannels, until they recently fixed it -- after more than two years...

Amateur hour stuff like this will probably continue until well after the transition, I'm afraid. Once the analog transmitters are shut down and dismantled, the stations' engineering staffs will be able to concentrate on digital quality. Meanwhile, I've a hunch Fox Charley Charley is turning a blind eye until next year. At least I HOPE so.

KCNC 4-1 is always at least 3 DB louder using my H20 OTA listening to prime time DD 5.1 material than any of the other stations. I have often wondered if there was not a standard level that all stations would use. If there is, obviously they are ignoring it.

Phil

FOX cranks the sound up for the commercials. I mean, WAY up: Have to slice 20 points off just to bring the volume back down to the same level as the program...

KTFD-DT disappeared at channel 14-1 on my receiver last week, but the signal popped up as "15-3"...

Yes KCNC-DT DD is louder than most, but during DD stuff, the commercials often have reduced volume. Nice!

Fox31 is absolutely obnoxious with their volume jump during commercials. I wish they knew that they have lost me as a viewer of their news shows and anything that isn't a "can't miss" show because of their volume problem with commercials.

What's up with KTFD-DT? Not that I spend any time watching them, but they were one of my strongest signals and most reliable DTV channels. Now, 15-3? Definitely amateur hour!

Interesting, KTFD-DT showed up on my equipment at 15-1 a few days ago. Does that mean that they switched to their new RF of 15. I can't tell from my equipment.

Hope these stations get all of this stuff sorted out soon. I finally pulled the plug on Comcast today, so I'm hoping that I don't live to regret it. I doubt that though. It's pretty hard to beat free digital TV.

Interesting, KTFD-DT showed up on my equipment at 15-1 a few days ago. Does that mean that they switched to their new RF of 15. I can't tell from my equipment.They have always been RF 15 for digital. If they were doing things right, they would remap as 14-1.

I haven't noticed any significant volume problems. It could be that I'm over 60 and do have some high frequency loss that lessens the impact of audio problems.

I haven't noticed any significant volume problems. It could be that I'm over 60 and do have some high frequency loss that lessens the impact of audio problems.

I to am over 60 with some documented hearing loss from my days in Uncle Sam's fantastic forces. But, I notice the volume issues and if I don't, my better half lets me know about them promptly.

I finally pulled the plug on Comcast today, so I'm hoping that I don't live to regret it. I doubt that though. It's pretty hard to beat free digital TV.

Glad to hear it. Back when I had to have cable several years ago -- we were living in a deep gulch near Quincy and Buckley in SE Aurora, where there's absolutely no OTA reception without horrible ghosting thanks to the Quincy Reservoir dam -- I kept a diary for six weeks. Eighty-five percent of what I watched was on the broadcast networks. If your viewing is similar, you won't regret leaving those obscene bills in the dust, either. Bravo!

Eighty-five percent of what I watched was on the broadcast networks. If your viewing is similar, you won't regret leaving those obscene bills in the dust, either. Bravo!

Absolutely! It was tough making the decision to go completely OTA after having cable for the past 30 years, but the prices have just gotten outrageous, and like you said, I realized that most of the shows I was watching were available for free. In the end, it was really a no-brainer!!

Unfortunately, as the major networks go to more and more inane reality show formats, many cable stations now available in HD are becoming more and more attractive. My viewing just a couple of years ago was probably 80% network TV. But, at least until football season (oh yeah, a lot of football is now on ESPN, ESPN2, NFL Network) this year, the wife and I are spending at least half of our viewing time on cable channels. HD for the cable channels really makes a difference for us. I'm surprised how willing we are now to watch a Starz or Cinemax movie we've seen before (sometimes many times) when it is presented in HD. It's like seeing the movie again for the first time. But, yes the cost of these cable/DBS packages is getting out of hand. We've stayed under $90/month before taxes, but if we could get ale-carte, we could easily be paying $15/month less.

I don't subscribe to a program info service because it's way more entertaining to see what's going on with EIT data in this area. The stations that supply data at all usually provide a day's worth at most.

KMGH-DT is the exception. It appears to be providing 48 hours of EIT data on a regular basis. Bravo!

And shame on everyone else for providing lousy service, if they provide any at all...


Jim McCauley

I don't subscribe to a program info service because it's way more entertaining to see what's going on with EIT data in this area. The stations that supply data at all usually provide a day's worth at most.

Funny thing is I now own two HDTVs and an S3 TiVO, and none of them can display the data (except for the Sony HDTV, which can display the name of the current program.)

I don't subscribe to a program info service because it's way more entertaining to see what's going on with EIT data in this area. The stations that supply data at all usually provide a day's worth at most.

KMGH-DT is the exception. It appears to be providing 48 hours of EIT data on a regular basis. Bravo!

And shame on everyone else for providing lousy service, if they provide any at all...


Jim McCauley

Ok, it is sinking in. EIT == EPG (Electronic Program Guide)

Unfortunately, as the major networks go to more and more inane reality show formats, many cable stations now available in HD are becoming more and more attractive.

It's interesting how different people can have completely opposite opinions on the same things. :) Actually, the inane reality shows was one of the main reasons that I decided to give up cable. It seems like cable is filling up with more and more reality programming, not all of it inane but most of it not very interesting nonetheless. I was also disappointed with how many channels claim to be HD but really aren't. Several of them may show a HD program once in a while, but more often than not, they end up showing a SD program in either panoramic or zoomed mode and call it HD. Not cool!

I'm surprised how willing we are now to watch a Starz or Cinemax movie we've seen before (sometimes many times) when it is presented in HD. It's like seeing the movie again for the first time.

As far as movies are concerned, I've found that the library has a great selection of DVDs that are available for free. Years ago, the selection of movies at the library was pathetic, but things have definitely changed. They now get DVDs in almost as soon as they are released. It's great!!

We've stayed under $90/month before taxes, but if we could get ale-carte, we could easily be paying $15/month less.

Amen to that! There are some channels that I will probably miss like The National Geographic Channel (love Naked Science) and The Science Channel, but I'm just not willing to pay over $100 per month to get them. They really need to change the pricing structure and allow you to pick and choose which channels you want and which ones you don't. I was probably only watching 5 or 6 channels on a regular basis, so it just wasn't worth the cost to keep the cable going. As television and the internet continue to merge, I hope it will provide some more affordable viewing options. In the meantime, I'm glad I won't be paying that huge cable bill every month.

Eighty-five percent of what I watched was on the broadcast networks. If your viewing is similar, you won't regret leaving those obscene bills in the dust, either.
Amen to that.

What's with the ugly new logo on KWGN? Did they change ownership or something? The new logo seems a lot more obnoxious that the simple CW they had before.

The upcoming Canyon Courier has posted this story (http://www.canyoncourier.com/cgi-bin/storyviewxqwerty.cgi?036+NewsLocal.200873-1947-036-036030.Full+NewsLocal) about mountain residents who could receive analog broadcasts but find themselves shut out of the digital age. My question to the experts - is this a temporary problem until stations go full power, or do you think this is a permanent situation? I have an old antenna on my roof (with no amplification) that picks up the analog stations from Lookout Mountain, but I haven't had it connected since I went HD a couple of years ago. I recently hooked it up to see what I could see, but all I could pick up was KUSA. Directional transmission seems to have placed me right at the puckered backside of the tower. Feel free to take a look at the attached profile using the published lat/long of the new tower, and give me your expert opinion.

My question to the experts -- is this a temporary problem until stations go full power, or do you think this is a permanent situation?

You're right, no station is at "full strength," though most of the network affiliates have put in applications for maximum allowed power. FCC has yet to render any decisions yet. Difficult to say at this time whether reception issues are permanent or not.

I have an old antenna on my roof (with no amplification) that picks up the analog stations from Lookout Mountain, but I haven't had it connected since I went HD a couple of years ago. I recently hooked it up to see what I could see, but all I could pick up was KUSA.

This is a potential thicket of problems for reception:

* Was the antenna built to receive both VHF and UHF? All local digital broadcasts are now in the UHF band, though three -- channels 7, 9 and 12 -- will migrate back to VHF in February.

* How old is the antenna? Is it damaged in any way? If it's beyond 20 years old or so, corrosion might be eating away at signals as well as metal. Damage -- elements bent out of shape or broken off -- will degrade signals badly. You'll need to look at the antenna closely for hints.

* What kind of drop cable are you using, and how old is that? If it's twinlead (a flat cable) that's more than a few years old, it's probably shot and should be replaced with good coaxial (round) cable, preferably RG-6. Ditto for coax that's more than 15 years old. UV radiation, for which we're well known, ages vinyl insulation jackets quickly. Once the jacket cracks, moisture gets in, where it can corrode the metal conductors.

Directional transmission seems to have placed me right at the puckered backside of the tower. Feel free to take a look at the attached profile using the published lat/long of the new tower, and give me your expert opinion.

Not all stations have directional antennas. Many of the broadcast strength contour maps I've seen cover most of JeffCo, and a good number of the final (full-strength) contours extend well into Clear Creek County. But you've got bigger issues as shown in the attached graphic -- those peaks at 0.5 miles and 6.25 miles from your home, both of which stand between your home and the broadcast antennas at LOM. They block line of sight to the signals.

Having said all that, though, you got Channel 9 (was it channel 9-1, KUSA-DT?), and if you can get anything at all in digital now, that increases the likelihood that you'll be able to pick up even more stations. So take a close look at your antenna gear first. Once that's in good shape, consider adding a pre-amp if you still need to pull in more signals.

Thanks Don for the in-depth answer. To clarify one point, I was referring to KUSA-DT as the only digital station on LOM that I could receive when I tested it, but I get the major analog VHF stations, some of which I can receive with a basic set of rabbit ears. As far as the rest of your points go, I would say I'm guilty on all counts. The antenna is probably VHF only, it's as old as the house (20 years), and considering the height and slope of the roof, plus the height of the house itself, it's not easy to get up there. My hope is, of course, to wire it back into the house and, voila, it works. The reality is that I may have to invest in some hardware (including a 30 foot ladder). The contour map doesn't look great but I do receive analog stations from LOM so it can't be all bad. I'm only 9.5 miles from the broadcast tower. I guess my biggest concern was over talk about directional antennas, which I've asked about in this forum before (answer: wait and see), coupled with the newspaper article which I referenced in my original post. It appears that I either need to invest in new hardware, or remain patient until February.

I guess my biggest concern was over talk about directional antennas, which I've asked about in this forum before (answer: wait and see), coupled with the newspaper article which I referenced in my original post. It appears that I either need to invest in new hardware, or remain patient until February.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in any newspaper story. What you read is necessarily going to be anecdotal: A reporter talks to two or three people at most, and if they're all having reception troubles, that becomes the story. Every reception situation is different; "your mileage may vary" (or YMMV, an acronym you'll see on lots of antenna forums).

Full disclosure: I started out doing what this reporter does for community newspapers like the Courier. No doubt they operate on a shoestring, so she's got as many as a dozen stories to cover each week. That leaves little time for any kind of depth on any one subject.

The FCC and broadcast engineers are fond of saying that if your analog reception is fairly good now, i.e., clear or just a bit of "snow," with just a little "ghosting" or less, you should be able to get OTA digital signals after the transition. But that assumes antenna and cabling are in good shape and up to the task. At any rate, we won't really know until we get there, will we?

Thanks Don for the in-depth answer. To clarify one point, I was referring to KUSA-DT as the only digital station on LOM that I could receive when I tested it, but I get the major analog VHF stations, some of which I can receive with a basic set of rabbit ears. As far as the rest of your points go, I would say I'm guilty on all counts. The antenna is probably VHF only, it's as old as the house (20 years), and considering the height and slope of the roof, plus the height of the house itself, it's not easy to get up there. My hope is, of course, to wire it back into the house and, voila, it works. The reality is that I may have to invest in some hardware (including a 30 foot ladder). The contour map doesn't look great but I do receive analog stations from LOM so it can't be all bad. I'm only 9.5 miles from the broadcast tower. I guess my biggest concern was over talk about directional antennas, which I've asked about in this forum before (answer: wait and see), coupled with the newspaper article which I referenced in my original post. It appears that I either need to invest in new hardware, or remain patient until February.

If you are receiving KUSA-DT, then the odds are that your antenna is a VHF/UHF combo as KUSA-DT is broadcasting on channel 16, a UHF channel. While some UHF antennas pick up high VHF channels, usually VHF antennas don't pick up UHF channels. What does the antenna look like. Post a picture, that would help. Do you pick up analog channels 20 or 31?

Based on your terrain elevation diagram, I'm guessing the KUSA-DT signal you are receiving is a bounced signal. Wait until the majors go full power and see what you get then, but bounced signals are usually enhanced with a good, low noise pre-amp.

Based on your terrain elevation diagram, I'm guessing the KUSA-DT signal you are receiving is a bounced signal. Wait until the majors go full power and see what you get then, but bounced signals are usually enhanced with a good, low noise pre-amp.

One other point to keep in mind when viewing the profile posted is that the base of the antenna structure is at about 7100 feet while the actual antennas are mostly above 7800 feet. A lot less terrain for the signal to negotiate. Depending on the actual elevation of your antenna, you may have nearly line-of-sight to the Lake Cedar Tower.

I Wonder if Deb is having trouble with reception from her converter box?:D

Maybe Deb is receiving the signal in her tooth fillings.

There was a time when I considered pulling that old antenna down, but left it in place for the day that Denver reached the 21st century.

I barely get any of the UHF channels, so I was almost surprised that KUSA-DT came in, knowing that it is also UHF. But aren't there also digital VHF channels already broadcasting from LOM? Photo is attached.

Maybe Deb is receiving the signal in her tooth fillings.

There was a time when I considered pulling that old antenna down, but left it in place for the day that Denver reached the 21st century.

I barely get any of the UHF channels, so I was almost surprised that KUSA-DT came in, knowing that it is also UHF. But aren't there also digital VHF channels already broadcasting from LOM? Photo is attached.

That is a VHF/UHF combo antenna, but the UHF part is minimal. The UHF is a Yagi type antenna, but it looks to be fairly short (not very many elements to it) and it lacks a Corner Reflector, which would aid in receiving low end UHF signals (e.g., channels 14 through about 30).

Have you run your location in TVFool to see what your expected signal strength will be after transition?

That antenna is also missing the VHF reflector element at the very back of the boom.

Wow! Check this out. I'm gonna' order some today!!!

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Wow! Check this out. I'm gonna' order some today!!!

HD Glasses (http://www.asseenontvguys.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=147)

Actually I was thinking about buying a pair for skiing. The price is right. I bought a pair of the famous Blu-Blocker sunglasses for skiing many years ago and they were the best skiing sun glasses I ever had. Ski buddies were also impressed with them. Unfortunately those Blu-Blockers are now pretty scratched up and the arms are somewhat mangled from years of use while skiing.

However, I understand your posting these as just one more way that consumers are being toyed with on the whole High Definition thing.

There was a time when I considered pulling that old antenna down, but left it in place for the day that Denver reached the 21st century. I barely get any of the UHF channels, so I was almost surprised that KUSA-DT came in, knowing that it is also UHF. But aren't there also digital VHF channels already broadcasting from LOM? Photo is attached.

Yup, it's... busted! I'm surprised you got any UHF broadcast at all from that antenna. From the ground, though, looks like you'll probably get to re-use the mast and tripod mount.

There is no VHF digital broadcast from Lookout at present -- or from anywhere else in the Denver metro area, for that matter. At the digital transition, KMGH and KUSA (now broadcasting DT on 17 and 16, respectively) will "flash-cut" from analog to digital on physical channels 7 and 9 by shutting down both the analog transmitters operating on those frequencies and the digital transmitters on 17 and 16, and then firing up the new digital transmitters built for 7 and 9. In addition, KBDI will migrate from channel 38 to its new VHF assignment on channel 13 at the same time.

The digital transition will occur at midnight Wednesday, Feb. 18 -- one minute past 11:59 p.m. on the 17th, to make it absolutely clear!

Wow! Check this out. I'm gonna' order some today!!!

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Now just so I understand, after the cutoff date in Feb when there is no more analog, only digital, I use these glasses to watch my old analog TV sets and I will be able to see the new digital HD picture????? Does this mean I don't need to buy one of those expensive converter boxes?????


:cool:

Posted by Don_M:
There is no VHF digital broadcast from Lookout at present -- or from anywhere else in the Denver metro area, for that matter. At the digital transition, KMGH and KUSA (now broadcasting DT on 17 and 16, respectively) will "flash-cut" from analog to digital on physical channels 7 and 9 by shutting down both the analog transmitters operating on those frequencies and the digital transmitters on 17 and 16, and then firing up the new digital transmitters built for 7 and 9. In addition, KBDI will migrate from channel 38 to its new VHF assignment on channel 13 at the same time.

The digital transition will occur at midnight Wednesday, Feb. 18 -- one minute past 11:59 p.m. on the 17th, to make it absolutely clear!
I think some clarification is in order. Currently, there is one VHF digital channel receivable in the area - KQCK, formerly KDEV, on channel 11. I watch it once in a while for an old Perry Mason or Wild, Wild West fix. It also has a second sub-channel that, the last time I looked, is broadcasting music videos.

As we approach 2-17-09, we'll probably get some information on how the various stations that are changing channels will shut off their analog and move to their digital assignments. It ain't gonna happen at 11:59 PM with the flick of a switch. It's a little more involved than that.

When the LCG stations moved from RP to Lookout, they started the process after midnight on a Saturday. I suspect they did that to diminish the effect the loss of signal would have on viewers. I don't think you're going to see KUSA turn off their analog and turn on their digital at 11:59 PM 2-17-09, right in the middle of Conan. To speculate, I think they will probably shut off the analog signal in the middle of the night in the early morning of 2-17-09, at the latest. They could even do it early Sunday morning, 2-15-09, if they want to. There's no prohibition regarding doing it a few days early. That will give them some time, in the dead of night, to get things up and running, do testing, and whatever else they need to do. For KBDI, they can't turn on their digital signal on channel 13 until KRDO analog in the Springs vacates that channel. Since KRDO isn't flash-cutting back to 13 for digital, I suspect some negotiations will occur between KBDI and KRDO regarding the timing of KRDO's analog shutdown. KBDI will shut its analog off on channel 12 as required, but it may be off the air for a while before it can get digital operations on channel 13 up and running.

The requirement is that analog must be shut off my the end of the day, 2-17-09. It doesn't infer that it will happen at 11:59 PM, that it must happen at 11:59 PM, or that it can't happen at some earlier time.

I agree completely. But if the local affiliates like KRMA aren't going to use those airwaves to send a signal that can be easilty received, then what good are they?

My cable is Netflix.


LOL - my cable is Netflix as well.
I've been reading through the thread but am a newbie WRT to antennas.

I'm east of Broadway west of 28th. My house has an ancient TV antenna on the roof, which I feed into a Radioshack distribution amplifier with FM trap. Currently I'm analog OTA but am waiting on 2 DTVPal's, and have 2 coupons that I may buy a couple of Zenith DTT901's with, unless someone has a revelation about which box is a better choice for Boulder.

I looked at the Tivax, but the inability to manually add a channel is a deal killer. I currently have to manually tune my Panasonic DMR-eh50 and TV's to the right translator channels after autoscan, so manual channel add is a must.


I get mediocre analog OTA signals in part because I'm relatively close to NIST.
So for analog OTA -
2, 4, 7, 9 come in on those channels
KRMA comes in on 6, 44, and 100. I use 44 since it's better than 6 and some devices won't tune to 100.
KDBI - comes in 12, (barely) and 11.
KDVR ch 31 - comes in over 22
KTVD ch 20 - comes in over 47
I don't pick up any of the other english language channels clear enough to bother with at present.

I've read posts here that people in some areas of Boulder aren't picking up DT for RMPBS. Is that the only digital channel that's going to be available? (Not counting additional programming sub channels 6-2 etc.). There will be no digital equivalents of translator channels?

Antenna web didn't seem to answer this. Or it did and I didn't know how to interpret the info.
Looking at their results, looks like I need to reorient south towards LOM at the very least, and should probably buy a new antenna.

Wow! Check this out. I'm gonna' order some today!!!

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Send a pair to Deb so that she can look at the LOM tower in total radiation safety :-)


Jim McCauley

There will be no digital equivalents of translator channels?Just in the past few weeks, KRMA-DT started a broadcasting on RF24 from a low-power transmitter atop one of the CU dorms. I find that I can pick that up much better than their RF18 transmitter on Mt. Morrison.

Wow! Check this out. I'm gonna' order some today!!!

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That's so old-school; why not get HD-20/20™ LASIK (http://www.allaboutvision.com/lasik-surgeons/denver-buckley.htm) instead?

Just in the past few weeks, KRMA-DT started a broadcasting on RF24 from a low-power transmitter atop one of the CU dorms. I find that I can pick that up much better than their RF18 transmitter on Mt. Morrison.

Some of your past posts lead me to believe that you may be able to see some of the PSIP information from KRMA-DT. If that is correct, and you get a chance to look at the PSIP from KRMA on UHF 18, I would love to hear if you see anything unusal. Something is preventing the Vizio VX32L TVs that Rick313 and I have from detecting the station during the channel scan, even though I can watch it OK on my other VX32L, which has not had a scan for several months. I believe Rick313 lost KRMA-DT during a scan for the Lake Cedar Group move, and I lost it on a scan around June 1. Both of our trouble sets had detected KRMA-DT in the past.

Thanks In Advance for any assistance you can provide.

Just in the past few weeks, KRMA-DT started a broadcasting on RF24 from a low-power transmitter atop one of the CU dorms. I find that I can pick that up much better than their RF18 transmitter on Mt. Morrison.

Interesting. I was looking through the TV Fool info and I think 48 and 22 will have digital transmission. (I'm still getting familiar with what all the info means).

On a slightly off topic note, I was looking at the TVGOS Host Channel in my Panny dmr-eh50, it say 0x16 - 22 in decimal. I was very surprised. I expected it to be one of the PBS stations. Is anyone else in the Bldr/Lngmt/Lsvl area seeing this, or is more typically KRMA or KDBI?

I know CBS KCNC is the digital source but isn't broadcasting a full digital feed yet according to: http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html. Does anyone know when they'll start the full digital TVGOS transmission?

-jf

Just in the past few weeks, KRMA-DT started a broadcasting on RF24 from a low-power transmitter atop one of the CU dorms. I find that I can pick that up much better than their RF18 transmitter on Mt. Morrison.

KRMA-DT is still a NO-SHOW here in northeast Longmont.

I think KRMA-DT must move their antenna up out of the basement (Ice-Bridge) to reach us!

KRMA-TV and KBDI-DT are good viewing.

I dread KBDI-DT (and also KMGH-DT, KUSA-DT) reversion back to VHF. I do not think our antenna set up too well for VHF.

I know, it's radio, but I haven't been able to find my answer anywhere else...

KCFR (90.1 FM) comes in crystal clear for me here in Boulder - I thought i read somewhere here that they were on Mt. Morrison.

Thanks in advance for the help!

I know, it's radio, but I haven't been able to find my answer anywhere else...

KCFR (90.1 FM) comes in crystal clear for me here in Boulder - I thought i read somewhere here that they were on Mt. Morrison.

Thanks in advance for the help!

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=kcfr&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

There's a map for you.

- Trip

Just in the past few weeks, KRMA-DT started a broadcasting on RF24 from a low-power transmitter atop one of the CU dorms. I find that I can pick that up much better than their RF18 transmitter on Mt. Morrison.

I tuned to 24-1 and was able to pick it up, although very weakly. PSIP is way messed up, main channel is on 24-3, vme on 24-4, and 24-6, 24-8 show nothing.

I tuned to 24-1 and was able to pick it up, although very weakly. PSIP is way messed up, main channel is on 24-3, vme on 24-4, and 24-6, 24-8 show nothing.

Just in the past few weeks, KRMA-DT started a broadcasting on RF24 from a low-power transmitter atop one of the CU dorms. I find that I can pick that up much better than their RF18 transmitter on Mt. Morrison.


In Boulder I hooked a Zenith Dtt901 to the coax coming from the antenna on the roof -
I can't see channel 2-1, or anything from KDBI.

When I look at channel 24 in manual tuning it shows a very strong signal and identifies it as KRMA 6-1. So it looks I'm actually getting the 24 signal which the Zenith then maps to 6-1. If I manually enter 24 on the remote it then shifts to 6-1. Interesting. Currently the guide info and time is correct for 6-1 and 6-2.

CBS is coming in over 35 which is mapped to 4-1. ABC is on 17 which maps to 7-1
The rest of the mapping
9-1, 9-2, mapped from 16
6-1, 6-2, mapped from 24
22-1 (KDVR Fox), mapped from 21
20-1, mapped from 19
25-1 mapped from 29




I'll try re-orienting my antenna tomorrow and see if things improve. I'm guessing that the antenna is old enough (it came with the house so it's from sometime between 1970 and 1997) it just needs to be replaced.

What kinds of antenna are people in Boulder finding good success with? I'm about 2 miles due east of NCAR and less than a mile east and south of NIST so I have all that to contend with as well.

I tuned to 24-1 and was able to pick it up, although very weakly. PSIP is way messed up, main channel is on 24-3, vme on 24-4, and 24-6, 24-8 show nothing.

Based on that, it sounds to me more like they're transmitting no PSIP. Maybe they don't have a PSIP generator for the translator?

- Trip

I'll try re-orienting my antenna tomorrow and see if things improve. I'm guessing that the antenna is old enough (it came with the house so it's from sometime between 1970 and 1997) it just needs to be replaced.

What kinds of antenna are people in Boulder finding good success with? I'm about 2 miles due east of NCAR and less than a mile east and south of NIST so I have all that to contend with as well.

Remember that come transition in February 2009, three (3) of our local broadcasters will be on high VHF channels (KMGH-7, KUSA-9, KBDI-13). Therefore, if you replace your antenna, be sure the replacement has good high VHF capability as well as the UHF capability needed for the rest of the broadcasters.

jafi1,

If you're picking up 22-1, which is KFCT out of Ft. Collins, a satellite of KDVR, with your antenna pointed towards LM/Morrison, you're getting off of a side lobe or the back of the antenna so it seems like your antenna, cabling, connections are probably OK.

In Boulder I hooked a Zenith Dtt901 to the coax coming from the antenna on the roof -
I can't see channel 2-1, or anything from KDBI.

When I look at channel 24 in manual tuning it shows a very strong signal and identifies it as KRMA 6-1. So it looks I'm actually getting the 24 signal which the Zenith then maps to 6-1. If I manually enter 24 on the remote it then shifts to 6-1. Interesting. Currently the guide info and time is correct for 6-1 and 6-2.

CBS is coming in over 35 which is mapped to 4-1. ABC is on 17 which maps to 7-1
The rest of the mapping
9-1, 9-2, mapped from 16
6-1, 6-2, mapped from 24
22-1 (KDVR Fox), mapped from 21
20-1, mapped from 19
25-1 mapped from 19




I'll try re-orienting my antenna tomorrow and see if things improve. I'm guessing that the antenna is old enough (it came with the house so it's from sometime between 1970 and 1997) it just needs to be replaced.

What kinds of antenna are people in Boulder finding good success with? I'm about 2 miles due east of NCAR and less than a mile east and south of NIST so I have all that to contend with as well.

Your location may shadow you from KWGN 2.1 and KDVR Fox 31.1 from Lookout Mountain and probably KRMA 6.1 from Mount Morrison. You will probably not receive KDBI from Squaw Mountain (South of Idaho Springs).

You are receiving KDVR 22.1 from East of Fort Collins from the KFCT (RF 21) transmitter.

Before investing in a new antenna before February 2009, try orienting your antenna as closely as you can toward Lookout Mountain which should also be close enough to the direction to Mt. Morrison and see what you might gain or lose. If you get too directional of an antenna, you might lose Fox on 22.1 since it is virtually coming from behind your compass heading to Lookout.

Remember that come transition in February 2009, three (3) of our local broadcasters will be on high VHF channels (KMGH-7, KUSA-9, KBDI-13). Therefore, if you replace your antenna, be sure the replacement has good high VHF capability as well as the UHF capability needed for the rest of the broadcasters.

Yes, this does concern me. With my Terk TV-55 and my DB8 in northeast Longmont, I can get everything I want, except KRMA-DT
(34) 2.1 KWGN-DT 100
(35) 4.1 KCNC-DT 79
(17) 7.1 KMGH-DT 97
(16) 9.1 KUSA-DT 77
(19)20.1 KTVD-DT 100
(32)31.1 KDVR-DT 93
Signals from Lookout Mountain are all clear

The signal from Squaw Mountain is clear:
(38)12.1 KBDI-DTV 65

From Mount Morrison I can pick up:
(15)14.1 KTFD-DT 86 ==> hope for KRMA-DT?
but not:
(18) 6.1 KRMA-DT 0 ==> ???

(6) KRMA-TV comes in clearly ==> hope
(12) KBDI-TV is snowy ==> doubt

Someone really likes to keep OTA up in the Air!

jafi1,

If you're picking up 22-1, which is KFCT out of Ft. Collins, a satellite of KDVR, with your antenna pointed towards LM/Morrison, you're getting off of a side lobe or the back of the antenna so it seems like your antenna, cabling, connections are probably OK.

I've never touched the antenna since I bought the house in 97, so I have no idea which way it is pointing. I'm planning on getting up on the roof with my compass and trying to figure it out. Over analog I pick up ch2, 4, 7, 9. KRMA on 6, 44, and 100. I get KDBI over 11, Fox over ch 22 and channel 20 over 47. I was looking at Antenna Web and trying to understand if I was pointing roughly north (330 degrees) rather than south towards LOM. I know how to use a compass. I'm less sure how to determine the antenna's orientation, and whether it has the various bits for good reception. I did replace the flat cable with coax about 3 or 4 years ago.

Sounds like you have a VHF/UHF combo antenna. If so, the shorter elements are in the front of the antenna and the front should be pointed towards Lookout/Morrison. Hope that helps.

Ok, I'll admit I haven't been keeping up with the status of the OTA HD transmission on LM for some time now.

I just noticed that I can't receive any OTA locals from the attic HD antenna anymore ... was getting over 10 channel from N. Castle Rock area ... but I know those were all downtown denver based and not at full power.

Have those been turned off? I know I need to go up in the attic and re-point my antenna ... guess more to the West now.

Can anyone give me a 1-2 paragraph cliffs notes version of the current status of HD in the denver metro? I am guessing we still are not at full power, which would figure.

I am using a antennas direct DB4 antenna (in attic) and using a channel master booster in my wiring panel in the basement. Had been getting a bunch of channels, maybe 16 in total ... but now I get zero when doing a scan on my dish 942.

I asked my wife how long they had been gone and she said for 2-3 weeks now (I haven't been watching much TV !) ... and said sometimes one or two comes back for a bit ...

I'm using a DIsh 942 with OTA antenna support and recording. I think its time to go to the attic and start re-pointing ...

Thanks,
Scott

Ok, I'll admit I haven't been keeping up with the status of the OTA HD transmission on LM for some time now.

I just noticed that I can't receive any OTA locals from the attic HD antenna anymore ... was getting over 10 channel from N. Castle Rock area ... but I know those were all downtown denver based and not at full power.

Have those been turned off? I know I need to go up in the attic and re-point my antenna ... guess more to the West now.

Can anyone give me a 1-2 paragraph cliffs notes version of the current status of HD in the denver metro? I am guessing we still are not at full power, which would figure.

I am using a antennas direct DB4 antenna (in attic) and using a channel master booster in my wiring panel in the basement. Had been getting a bunch of channels, maybe 16 in total ... but now I get zero when doing a scan on my dish 942.

I asked my wife how long they had been gone and she said for 2-3 weeks now (I haven't been watching much TV !) ... and said sometimes one or two comes back for a bit ...

I'm using a DIsh 942 with OTA antenna support and recording. I think its time to go to the attic and start re-pointing ...

Thanks,
Scott

All of the downtown Denver DTV stations are now on the new tower on LOM. Almost everybody else is also either on LOM or one of the nearby mountains. Go to antennaweb or TVFool and get the azimuth you need to LOM and re-point your antenna. The power levels of the channels on the new tower on LOM vary widely and will be changing as the transition date draws nearer. Since you are probably at greater range to LOM than you were to downtown Denver, you may have problems picking up some channels from the LOM area. You can wait and see how things are after they increase power. It sounds like you have a distribution amp and not a pre-amp. If you still have signal problems after ERP is up to max on LOM, you may need to install a pre-amp.

Thanks a lot. I am using the Channel Master CM 7777 preamp and it made a world of difference for me, along with the DB4.

I was surprised I got the locals at at, being 30 miles from downtown. The guy who installed my reciever from dish said he had not seen anyone (in my neighborhood) get as many OTA channels as I did (at the time).

I'm about 6500' (on a ridge) and higher than most areas, but there is a foothill of 6800' between me and lookout mtn that wasn't there between me and downtown denver.

Thanks a lot. I am using the Channel Master CM 7777 preamp and it made a world of difference for me, along with the DB4.

I was surprised I got the locals at at, being 30 miles from downtown. The guy who installed my reciever from dish said he had not seen anyone (in my neighborhood) get as many OTA channels as I did (at the time).

I'm about 6500' (on a ridge) and higher than most areas, but there is a foothill of 6800' between me and lookout mtn that wasn't there between me and downtown denver.

So get the correct magnetic azimuth to LOM, re-point your antenna, and enjoy Denver OTA DTV.

I have not seen anything for a while about KRMA raising their antenna out of the basement (Ice Bridge) onto a tower.

We get a good clear signal from 6 KRMA-TV.
We receive absolutely NO signal from KRMA-DT!

Lately close to half our recording>delayed viewing is analog channel 6 KRMA-TV.

The witching hour is only 7 months away and I am concerned!

Thanks a lot. I am using the Channel Master CM 7777 preamp and it made a world of difference for me, along with the DB4.

I was surprised I got the locals at at, being 30 miles from downtown. The guy who installed my reciever from dish said he had not seen anyone (in my neighborhood) get as many OTA channels as I did (at the time).

I'm about 6500' (on a ridge) and higher than most areas, but there is a foothill of 6800' between me and lookout mtn that wasn't there between me and downtown denver.

Keep in mind that the antennas on the lake cedar tower are above 7800' and KWGN is about 7450' and KDVR is just below 7700' so that 6800' foothill may not be an issue unless it is relatively close to your location.

I have not seen anything for a while about KRMA raising their antenna out of the basement (Ice Bridge) onto a tower.

They've filed a construction permit to install a new antenna and/or new tower.

You can read more about this starting around this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14166821#post14166821).

KPJR will be a TBN affiliate.

- Trip

KPJR will be a TBN affiliate.
- Trip

Kind of surprising. Greeley has a high Hispanic population, and so I had suspected KPJR-DT was going to be a Spanish-language station. Thanks, Trip!

Yeah, I only know because a filing was made with the FCC yesterday to assign the station to Trinity Broadcasting.

- Trip

They've filed a construction permit to install a new antenna and/or new tower.

You can read more about this starting around this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14166821#post14166821).

I spent some time searching the Jefferson County Colorado Building Permit database and didn't find anything that even looks remotely like KRMA is moving forward.

Just a couple cell sites down near Ideldale on the road up to the tower site.

I did a rescan on my Insignia 32" HDTV tonight. It has a built in tuner. I found something unusual after the rescan and was wondering if anyone had a similar experience and/or could tell me what it is.

The rescan picked up channel 18-1. I thought it was KRMA (and maybe it is). When I tuned 18-1, I had a black screen and intermittent audio that lasted about a second in between periods of no audio for 3-5 seconds. The TV screen displayed the low signal strength message.

From what I could pick up from the audio, there was someone talking about a shortage of Denver election judges and a reference to an apparent city of Denver web site. I didn't get the full name, but I did hear the "dot org". In between this announcer, I heard music, then I'd hear the announcer, back and forth, etc. I only listened for about 10 minutes.

I'm thinking that my tuner is randomly picking up radio but maybe it's something else? The TV has both ATSC and NTSC tuners, so maybe some FM is bleeding in? But it's doing it on the digital tuner, since it displayed channel 18-1. When I tuned analog channel 18, I got nothing. While there is an AM radio transmitter about 5 miles away, I am not aware of any FM transmitters near me (Highlands Ranch).

I did a rescan on my Insignia 32" HDTV tonight. It has a built in tuner. I found something unusual after the rescan and was wondering if anyone had a similar experience and/or could tell me what it is.

The rescan picked up channel 18-1. I thought it was KRMA (and maybe it is). When I tuned 18-1, I had a black screen and intermittent audio that lasted about a second in between periods of no audio for 3-5 seconds. The TV screen displayed the low signal strength message.

From what I could pick up from the audio, there was someone talking about a shortage of Denver election judges and a reference to an apparent city of Denver web site. I didn't get the full name, but I did hear the "dot org". In between this announcer, I heard music, then I'd hear the announcer, back and forth, etc. I only listened for about 10 minutes.

I'm thinking that my tuner is randomly picking up radio but maybe it's something else? The TV has both ATSC and NTSC tuners, so maybe some FM is bleeding in? But it's doing it on the digital tuner, since it displayed channel 18-1. When I tuned analog channel 18, I got nothing. While there is an AM radio transmitter about 5 miles away, I am not aware of any FM transmitters near me (Highlands Ranch).
Just curious, is the TV displaying KRMA-DT on 6-1? I would think Highlands Ranch should get KRMA-DT OK. I just wonder if they have something subtle messed up. One of my Vizio VX32L TVs cannot find KRMA-DT during the scan but the other one, which has not been rescanned in months, continues to display 6-1.

That reminds me, the other day I did a scan with my HD tuner card. It found two new channels I've never seen before, atsc1 and atsc5. The tuner software labeled them both "DVB DIGITAL RADIO". But nothing can be heard from them, and I can't seem to figure out what frequency they're on...

I do receive KRMA DT just fine on 6-1. After reading Symbios' post, I'm leaning towards the idea that what I'm receiving is digital FM radio. I have a digital table radio and reception is very good on it, so perhaps my TV's ATSC tuner is picking it up.

I did a rescan on my Insignia 32" HDTV tonight. It has a built in tuner. I found something unusual after the rescan and was wondering if anyone had a similar experience and/or could tell me what it is.

The rescan picked up channel 18-1. I thought it was KRMA (and maybe it is). When I tuned 18-1, I had a black screen and intermittent audio that lasted about a second in between periods of no audio for 3-5 seconds. The TV screen displayed the low signal strength message.

From what I could pick up from the audio, there was someone talking about a shortage of Denver election judges and a reference to an apparent city of Denver web site. I didn't get the full name, but I did hear the "dot org". In between this announcer, I heard music, then I'd hear the announcer, back and forth, etc. I only listened for about 10 minutes.

We get the same thing on our 26" Envision HDTV, also with built-in tuner. The audio is the RMPBS reading service for the blind, which they've offered over SAP for a number of years now. I don't know when they started the service, but it dates back to the analog-only days. Volunteers read newspapers cover to cover -- editorial content, advertising, everything -- for those who can't do so. This includes the Rocky, the Post, the Gazette out of the Springs, and possibly a number of other papers throughout the state.

Our tuner picks up this audio stream as channel 18-5 at the same signal strength as 6-1 and 6-2. It doesn't display the no-signal notice.

Don_M, thanks for the info. Maybe now I can cancel my subscription to the Post!

Your location may shadow you from KWGN 2.1 and KDVR Fox 31.1 from Lookout Mountain and probably KRMA 6.1 from Mount Morrison. You will probably not receive KDBI from Squaw Mountain (South of Idaho Springs).

You are receiving KDVR 22.1 from East of Fort Collins from the KFCT (RF 21) transmitter.

Before investing in a new antenna before February 2009, try orienting your antenna as closely as you can toward Lookout Mountain which should also be close enough to the direction to Mt. Morrison and see what you might gain or lose. If you get too directional of an antenna, you might lose Fox on 22.1 since it is virtually coming from behind your compass heading to Lookout.

I checked today and my antenna is pointing at 168 degrees (corrected for magnetic declination of 12 degrees). According to antenna web that's where it should be pointing. (Lat: 39.9890747 Long: -105.2452316)

My ancient antenna resembles a fishbone - Looks like the LDPA Vee type at: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html) The boom that runs down the center of wide part of the V is pointed towards 168 degrees.

I was looking at the manual tune in DTT901 - I actually pick up signal for
34 (ch 2) just not enough to lock. I pick up zip for 38 (12 - KDBI). I also get no signal for 51,43,40. I get low signal for 15,32,18. I don't care about 15, and I'm getting Fox and KRMA over other channels so those aren't a problem. It'd be nice to pick up ION but it's not a have to have channel.

So I'm guessing an antenna mounted pre-amplifier will help with the low signal issue for 2 but I appear to be hosed for picking up KDBI digitally?

Since the 901 has analog pass through I guess I'll wait till Feb. before getting a new antenna.

I am not completely sure of your description...BUT almost universaly the narrowest part of the antenna, the one with the shortest elements is the "Front" of the antenna in a log periodic yagi. This is the part of the antenna that should be pointing towards the bearing that you want. If yours is like the one at the link that you sent and labled LDPA V type, the front of the antenna is pointing to the left in that diagram.

http://www.radioshack.com/sm-160-long-dual-boom-57-element-antenna--pi-2103087.html

If you look at the picture there the front of the antenna is pointing to the left and up. You will notice the short straight UHF elements perpindicular to the main boom and the two small booms behind them at about 45 degrees to the main boom (this is the corner reflector that helps with the lower UHF frequencies). These are the parts that will pick up the UHF signals that you want. They have to be pointing towards the signal source. If you don't have something like this on your antenna, it may be a VHF only antenna. This may be a problem as well.


It really sounds like your antenna could be pointing 180 degrees away from where you want it to point. Theoretically the back of the antenna (which is the end with the longest elements) should have the least signal gain or the best null, depending on how you look at it. Try pointing the small end towards LOM. It should work much better!

Phil

I checked today and my antenna is pointing at 168 degrees (corrected for magnetic declination of 12 degrees). According to antenna web that's where it should be pointing. (Lat: 39.9890747 Long: -105.2452316)

My ancient antenna resembles a fishbone - Looks like the LDPA Vee type at: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html) The boom that runs down the center of wide part of the V is pointed towards 168 degrees.

I was looking at the manual tune in DTT901 - I actually pick up signal for
34 (ch 2) just not enough to lock. I pick up zip for 38 (12 - KDBI). I also get no signal for 51,43,40. I get low signal for 15,32,18. I don't care about 15, and I'm getting Fox and KRMA over other channels so those aren't a problem. It'd be nice to pick up ION but it's not a have to have channel.

So I'm guessing an antenna mounted pre-amplifier will help with the low signal issue for 2 but I appear to be hosed for picking up KDBI digitally?

Since the 901 has analog pass through I guess I'll wait till Feb. before getting a new antenna.

Well everything ppasteur said about the direction and type of antenna you are using. It sounds to me like it might be pointed in the wrong direction and it sounds to me like you just might have a VHF-only antenna. The latter would preclude you from every getting good reception of the digital channels broadcasting on an actual channel above Channel 13.

I took the liberty of running your coordinates in TVFool and I'd say their is little chance that you will ever see KBDI-DT. Even after they are full power for the transition and even if you got a good size UHF antenna with a pre-amp, I think it would be tough based on the results for KBDI-DT (real channel 38) on TVFool.

You apparently have some peaks between you and LOM. You might ask Gakon to run a terrain elevation plot from your house to LOM to get a better idea of what you are up against.

To paraphrase O'Reilly, jafi1, you haven't got a shot. ;) Crescent, Blue, Centralia, and Black Hawk Mountains are right in a line between you and Squaw. The peak closest to Squaw is unnamed on my map, but is actually below your line of sight. However, LOS is not the only factor in receiving OTA, so once KDBI goes full power, there may be some other characteristics that would allow you to receive it.

KBDI is allegedly going to move to VHF 13 sometime after the February transition. That should increase the chances of me getting their signal.

but I appear to be hosed for picking up KDBI digitally?Yes, and that probably won't change unless KBDI decides to put up a digital translator like they have for analog. You mentioned that you get their analog signal on 11 (which is a translator) rather than 12 (which is their main signal on Squaw). That's par for the course if you live in Boulder proper.

KBDI is moving to VHF 13. There is nothing "allegedly" about it. Their antenna will be about 30 feet higher than it is now on UHF 38. So that should help, but I think the 30 feet would help even if they stayed on UHF 38.

I'm disappointed with what is going to happen with respect to KBDI post transition with respect to receiving it in Fort Collins. I can get it now, and might be able to get it after the transition when it switches to VHF channel 13, except for the fact that there will be a low power station (KPXH) coming on line on channel 13 just 4 miles from my antenna.

Anyone know why they aren't going back to channel 12 (their current analog channel)?

Yes, and that probably won't change unless KBDI decides to put up a digital translator like they have for analog. You mentioned that you get their analog signal on 11 (which is a translator) rather than 12 (which is their main signal on Squaw). That's par for the course if you live in Boulder proper.

I get KDBI on 12 as well, but 11 is a slightly more consistent picture (neither is fantastic). Ditto for KRMA on 6, with the translators on 44 and 100 being a bit better. I also get 20 and 31 but they're very snowy so I watch on the translators 22 and 47 which are much clearer. They all have ghosts which vary depending on atmospheric conditions.

I was over in Thornton last night and checked out the reception on a friend's HDTV. It was very interesting to look at channel 6 analog - and the digital 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4

The 6.1 I am receiving over the 24 translator on Williams Village is not the 6.1 he 's receiving. His 6.1 is "PBS HD" and different than the analog ch 6 programming. My 6.1 is the analog programming. 6.2 is V-me and the same on both. I do not get 6.3 and 6.4 - guess they are not re-transmitting them.

I did monkey with my roof antenna a bit yesterday. The only thing that came out of it is there is a very narrow range where I can get both the 4 and 7 digital signals. And I do mean narrow. It took several tiny increments to get it back to where I could get both, and it was very difficult to not overshoot one direction or the other. Did nothing to get a stronger signal for 34 though. Will still wait till Feb to replace it. Bleah.

I [...] might be able to get [KBDI] after the transition when it switches to VHF channel 13, except for the fact that there will be a low power station (KPXH) coming on line on channel 13 just 4 miles from my antenna.

This is weird. Why would the FCC allow the channel assignment? Here is the basic info on the station from the FCC website:

<begin>

KPXH-LP CO FORT COLLINS USA (Digital)

Licensee: PAXSON COMMUNICATIONS LPTV, INC.
Service Designation: LD Digital Low Power Television station (Digital LPTV)

Channel: 13 210 - 216 MHz Construction Permit
File No.: BDISDTL-20060321ADB Facility ID number: 18509
CDBS Application ID No.: 1119975

40° 32' 56.00" N Latitude
105° 11' 47.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization:
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 0.3 kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain:-meters HAAT -- Calculate HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 2179. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 21. meters AGL

Frequency Offset: 0 (zero)

Non-Directional Antenna ID No.: 72038 Pattern Rotation: 0.00

<end>

"Paxon Communications" has morphed into "Ion Communications" (the MyTV company), which is currently offering that programming over an LPTV transmitter in Fort Collins over analog channel 59.

I'd much rather see KBDI's content on digital 13. Since KXPH is authorized for just 300 watts, maybe I'll be able to orient my antenna southward enough to have KBDI's signal wash it out.


Jim McCauley

Here's an excerpt from KPXH's LP application:
A study has been conducted to assure that the proposal will not create
prohibited interference with other licensed, authorized or pending analog or digital TV,
LPTV/translator and Class A TV stations. Using the procedures outlined in the FCC’s OET-69 Bulletin, a 1 kilometer grid, and 1990 U.S. Census, the proposal complies with the current FCC policy (i.e., less than 0.5% new interference caused to other pertinent assignments). If necessary, a waiver of the FCC rules is respectfully requested based on use of the procedures outlined in the FCC’s OET-69 Bulletin.

The applicant recognizes the proposal is secondary to authorized full-service
analog and DTV operations. The applicant understands that it must correct and/or eliminate prohibited interference that may result from its proposed operation.
The application is dated March 16, 2006, well before KBDI was granted its request to change digital operations from channel 38 to channel 13. Because of that, I suspect KPXH will have to change channels.

This stuff tends to get confusing. Are you sure KPXC is on an LP on analog 59? That's their full power channel. Is it instead 52, the current analog of KPXH?

The application is dated March 16, 2006, well before KBDI was granted its request to change digital operations from channel 38 to channel 13. Because of that, I suspect KPXH will have to change channels.

I hope you're right. I checked with Larimer County, and Paxon (Ion?) hasn't yet pulled a permit for construction on Horsetooth Mountain, which appears to be the designated location.

This stuff tends to get confusing.

Truer words were never spoken -- especially with regard to Paxon or Equity...

Are you sure KPXC is on an LP on analog 59? That's their full power channel. Is it instead 52, the current analog of KPXH?

My bad. I did indeed get them mixed up.

Jim McCauley

I was over in Thornton last night and checked out the reception on a friend's HDTV. It was very interesting to look at channel 6 analog - and the digital 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4

The 6.1 I am receiving over the 24 translator on Williams Village is not the 6.1 he 's receiving. His 6.1 is "PBS HD" and different than the analog ch 6 programming. My 6.1 is the analog programming. 6.2 is V-me and the same on both. I do not get 6.3 and 6.4 - guess they are not re-transmitting them.


Did you actually see programming on 6.3 and 6.4 at your friends house? I don't believe those channels actually exist. There's no mention of them at their website, and I don't get them on either of my receivers, even though I get 6.1 and 6.2 from Mt. Morrison. I suspect that the 6.3/6.4 you saw was actually a PSIP incompatibility problem, i.e. either KRMA is sending bad PSIP or your friends receiver has a problem with KRMA's PSIP data, even if it is within spec.

Did anyone catch the Dateline last night on Tower Dogs? It was on the guys who climb and work on towers. They didn't show any of the super large towers, but they did mostly large cell towers. Still interesting to meet these guys. They really are nuts.

Did anyone catch the Dateline last night on Tower Dogs? It was on the guys who climb and work on towers. They didn't show any of the super large towers, but they did mostly large cell towers. Still interesting to meet these guys. They really are nuts.

Tower Dogs was interesting. Reminded of the guys who work the high voltage lines: - they get on and off the lines by helicopter
The clip is from an IMAX documentary called "Straight Up"
http://www.glumbert.com/media/highpower

The 6.1 I am receiving over the 24 translator on Williams Village is not the 6.1 he 's receiving. His 6.1 is "PBS HD" and different than the analog ch 6 programming. My 6.1 is the analog programming. 6.2 is V-me and the same on both. I do not get 6.3 and 6.4 - guess they are not re-transmitting them.


I monkeyed with my antenna on Sun and tried to pick up KRMA-DT on 24-1. I am able to pick it up pretty well after a bit of tweaking. The PSIP is messed up. PBS-HD is indeed being broadcast, it is coming in on 24-3 for me, vme is on 24-4, 24-5, 25-6 and 24-8 are all blank. I think someone said something about 24-5 being an audio channel but my receiver doesn't tune it. I was really hoping I could get my pc with a MYHD card to see this so I could record, but the signal is not strong enough. It is however very watchable on my panny plasma. Signal bounces between 40 and 54%, with about 20 small breakups/hiccups every hour, which are annoying but not enough to really miss anything. Pixelation is as bad as or worse than the HD lagger 9-1, every time the picture changes, you get huge macro blocking because of the subhcannel. The shows I had been watching didn't have a lot of fast motion so It was not as bad as watching say SNF on 9-1 which is pixelation nightmare.

Morrison, Lookout, Squaw and CU are all within about 30o for me. With Lookout being in the middle. I had been pointing at Morrison to eek out 6-1. Now pointing at CU it seems to help with KBDI a bit more, since Squaw and Cu are almost in a straight line for me. I'm getting 12-1 at a solid 66% + which is
in the bottom end of the "green" range on my tuner!

Did you actually see programming on 6.3 and 6.4 at your friends house? I don't believe those channels actually exist. There's no mention of them at their website, and I don't get them on either of my receivers, even though I get 6.1 and 6.2 from Mt. Morrison. I suspect that the 6.3/6.4 you saw was actually a PSIP incompatibility problem, i.e. either KRMA is sending bad PSIP or your friends receiver has a problem with KRMA's PSIP data, even if it is within spec.

There have been times when the 6-1 PSIP was messed up, but It has been working for me lately. I'm not aware of anything on 6-3 or 6-4. I agree that it is your freinds tuner.

[...}even though I get 6.1 and 6.2 from Mt. Morrison.

Wow. You get a digital signal from KRMA in Fort Collins? If you don't mind my asking, what part of town do you live in, and what kind of antenna are you using? I can't get a whisper of KRMA-DT up here near Terry Lake.


Jim McCauley

Did you actually see programming on 6.3 and 6.4 at your friends house? I don't believe those channels actually exist. There's no mention of them at their website, and I don't get them on either of my receivers, even though I get 6.1 and 6.2 from Mt. Morrison. I suspect that the 6.3/6.4 you saw was actually a PSIP incompatibility problem, i.e. either KRMA is sending bad PSIP or your friends receiver has a problem with KRMA's PSIP data, even if it is within spec.

I'll take another look next time I'm over to verify what he's receiving.

even though I get 6.1 and 6.2 from Mt. Morrison.
except for the fact that there will be a low power station (KPXH) coming on line on channel 13 just 4 miles from my antenna.
?
You must be on the ridge east of Horsetooth Reservoir.

Wow. You get a digital signal from KRMA in Fort Collins? If you don't mind my asking, what part of town do you live in, and what kind of antenna are you using? I can't get a whisper of KRMA-DT up here near Terry Lake.

Jim McCauley


Ditto! I did get them one day last winter/spring and I presently get a weak signal according to my DTT-900 with a big Yagi and pre-amp.

Wow. You get a digital signal from KRMA in Fort Collins? If you don't mind my asking, what part of town do you live in, and what kind of antenna are you using? I can't get a whisper of KRMA-DT up here near Terry Lake.
Jim McCauley

Yes, I get a fairly good digital signal for KRMA (sometimes I get a few minor dropouts, but most of the time it is solid). I live in the upper part of the Taft Canyon subdivision (southwest Fort Collins). I am using a Channel Master 4228 antenna mounted on my chimney, along with an old Winegard AP8283 antenna preamp. I'm not up on the ridge, i.e. Taft Canyon is only about 100 feet higher in elevation than the Terry Lake area, which may or may not be enough to make the difference.

I just installed the antenna last weekend. Previously I had a Radio Shack VU-110 Yagi in the attic, but I made the mistake last year of enclosing it within a faraday cage, i.e. we had a metal roof put on the house after our previous roofing material (cedar shakes) was damaged in a hail storm. The funny thing was that since I don't watch a lot of TV it took me a few weeks to even notice that the reception had gone bad, and another month before I went up into the attic to try to figure out what the problem was. It wasn't until I scratched my head on a roofing nail that I realized the cause of the problem!

I was actually amazed that I was able to get any digital stations with that antenna, but the only stations I got from Lookout Mountain was KCNC and KWGN. I knew I was going to need to install an outdoor antenna eventually, but I got some extra motivation to do something about it when I realized I was not going to be able to get coverage of the Olympics on KUSA (analog or digital).

I will also note that at least in my case, the CM 4228 does a good job of getting high VHF signals. I noted that one person claimed (and actually made measurements) that tying the two reflector screens together to ensure that they make good contact helps with high VHF reception. I figured it couldn't hurt, so I did tie the two screens together.

I get a crisp picture on channel 7 analog and an almost crisp picture on channel 9 analog. Channel 12 analog has a small amount of snow. The high VHF antenna response graph for the CM 4228 shows a significant dip for channel 12, with better gain for channel 13, so I am hoping that I will not have any trouble getting KMGH-DT, KUSA-DT and KBDI-DT after the transition (currently I am able to get all of them on their temporary UHF frequencies).

I can't get a whisper of KRMA-DT up here near Terry Lake.
Jim McCauley

Jim,
It looks like the difference between you and jsmar is in the antenna setup.
You have virtually the same line of sight to KRMA.

I'm attaching profiles from DeLorme Topo from KRMA to Kenyon Corner (highway 1 and Douglas Rd) and to the intersection of County Rd 38E and South Taft Hill Rd and both appear to be LOS.

For comparison, I also attached the profile from KRMA/Lake Cedar tower (same azimuth) to my location. Lots of high ground 5 - 13 miles from my location, but I presently receive 2, 4, 7, 9, 20 & 31 with a stable signal even at their lowered signal strengths. Hopefully, KRMA will get their antenna raised up and increase their signal strength by February.

I have a 4228 with an UHF preamp. With the signals now on lookout can I take off the preamp so I can receive vhi-HI? My location is south of Loveland 1/4 east of US287.

I have a 4228 with an UHF preamp. With the signals now on lookout can I take off the preamp so I can receive vhi-HI? My location is south of Loveland 1/4 east of US287.

Before installing my 4228 I did a quick test by propping up the antenna in my upstairs bedroom window without the preamp. I was able to get all the stations I get now with the exception of KRMA and KBDI, and that was probably due to the fact that I couldn't aim the antenna properly.

However, you might want to look up the specs of your preamp. A lot of UHF only preamps are designed to pass VHF, so there may not be much if any loss in the VHF range.

Interesting....

I checked my signal strength on 24-3 tonight, 72% on my panny plasma. I decided to see what my myhd card was getting, 30%, strong enough for a lock. Myhd then remapped to 6.1 with vme on 6.2. So the myhd understands the PSIP and my panny plasma doesn't. For some reason the signal is much stronger tonight. It is overcast and drizzly tonight, maybe that's it. I think I remember that the Ft Collins Fox repeater was remapping to the same channel that their main channel was using. KRMA seems to be doing the same.

In Northeast Longmont I still can get no digital KRMA signal.

KRMA analog signal is clear. Where is their analog signal broadcast from?

Well the strong reception was short lived on KRMA's CU transmitter, back down to 40-50% on the panny, no lock on the myhd. I think the signal is highly affected by the weather for me.


In Northeast Longmont I still can get no digital KRMA signal.

KRMA analog signal is clear. Where is their analog signal broadcast from?

Lookout Mtn.

...

Lookout Mtn.

Thank you.

Fortunately, I get pretty good signals from antenna towers in the Mount Morrison vicinity:
14.1, 2.1, 31.1

Thank you.

Fortunately, I get pretty good signals from antenna towers in the Mount Morrison vicinity:
14.1, 2.1, 31.1

2.1 and 31.1 are not on Mount Morrison, they are on Lookout.

Is it just me or does 31 have a yellow screen up tonight at 8pm 'til 8:17 so far?
My wife is screaming that she's missing "So you think you can Dance".

I checked. Yellow screen OTA and on E*. The analog on E*, channel 8203, is OK.

Thanks. It came back at 8:43pm

I usually watch Perry Mason and Wild, Wild, West on KQCK (KDEV) a couple of times a week. Last week, channel 11-1 was a black screen. This week, they're running the music videos on both 11-1 and 11-2, only the sound is blarring on 11-1. I'm sure the owner, Equity, doesn't have a clue that this is happening and I'm sure their advertisers would be interested to know also since there isn't any 11-1 programming even though they're paying for it. I also noticed that they still ID themselves as "ABC 8" on the top of the hour station ID's even though they haven't had ABC affiliation for years.

What a screwed up organization! I've sent emails to their attorney of record on their various FCC apps in the past but I was wondering if anyone knew if there is a local contact. Equity's web site doesn't have a link for contacting them for issues like this.

I usually watch Perry Mason and Wild, Wild, West on KQCK (KDEV) a couple of times a week... What a screwed up organization! I've sent emails to their attorney of record on their various FCC apps in the past but I was wondering if anyone knew if there is a local contact. Equity's web site doesn't have a link for contacting them for issues like this.

Hi, Mike. As you already know, they've also got the Class A analog operation on Channel 39 in Aurora. Coordinates place the antenna near Havana and Parker. It's less than four miles from me, and yet I have a hard time getting the signal these days. It was nearly flawless in the past. Don't normally get 11 here, but it's come in enough that I've seen exactly what you're referring to.

The owner's Web site, http://www.emdaholdings.com/, mentions that all feeds are out of Little Rock, and it has an email form for comments at http://ir.emdaholdings.com/contactus.cfm. The RTN network site has two email addresses that may be of interest: engineering@rtnville.com and affiliaterelations@rtnville.com

These continuing issues make me wonder whether there's anyone on duty at those transmitters. Fox Charley Charley used to require commercial stations to have a licensed First or Second Class broadcast engineer at the controls at all times while they're on the air. Perhaps the Media Bureau might like to know about this as well??

Hi, Mike. As you already know, they've also got the Class A analog operation on Channel 39 in Aurora. Coordinates place the antenna near Havana and Parker. It's less than four miles from me, and yet I have a hard time getting the signal these days. It was nearly flawless in the past.

Yes, I used to watch a little RTN on Channel 39 in past years using the signal from the AntennasDirect XG91 with CM7775 pre-amp in my attic. Antenna was pointed slightly west of LOS to RP from my house in Arvada. Over the past year or so their signal has gone to pot and is no longer watchable. Don't know what happened there. Too bad, I got a kick out of the sleezy call-in show they ran late on Friday nights.

Too bad, I got a kick out of the sleezy call-in show they ran late on Friday nights.

"Unreliable Sources" is on for an hour at 9 every weeknight now. It's not quite as lowbrow as it used to be. They no longer have a cavalcade of seriously drunk/drugged callers, and Gary Lee Miller is more apt to be flogging politics and current events these days.

Miller is fairly talented as the host/interviewer. I'd be kind of surprised if he doesn't move on up to a better gig somewhere down the line.

Don_M, thanks for the info. I guess I should have checked Equity's web site again. Last time I looked at it, you could only email their "invester relations" dept.

I've gone purely digital in my house although I do have three analog TV's. One is wired into E* and the other two have the antenna feed going into an Accurian digital tuner which I use as a CECB, so I'd have to do some re-routing of RG-6 to use my analog tuners. Analog 39 never came in very well anyway, it's an LP and the signal just doesn't cover Highlands Ranch very well.

I don't think anyone "mans" the transmitter for KQCK. The feed from Little Rock is apparently automated and when it gets screwed up, including the PSIP, I don't think anyone from Equity knows about it. I'd have to say that that's quite evident since it's been screwed up for two weeks now. I wonder what would happen if there was a general power outage? Who would turn on the backup generator to keep KQCK on the air? I recollect a previous post that referred to KQCK as "quack". And I'm sure it wasn't a reference to AFLAC.

KRMA's 1000kW/344m Construction Permit has been granted.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101248487&formid=340&fac_num=14040
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=647862

Hopefully, this will bring some relief.

KRMA's 1000kW/344m Construction Permit has been granted. I thought I heard some screaming from the Deb and Nimby's the other day. (Hey, that sounds like a band name)

... Gary Lee Miller is more apt to be flogging politics and current events these days. Miller is fairly talented as the host/interviewer. I'd be kind of surprised if he doesn't move on up to a better gig somewhere down the line.

Correction: The man's last name is Robbins. Had a brief chance to watch him last night as the signal was OK.

I realize this may be a little off topic, but things have been quiet lately, and I think I might be able to get an informed answer from the participants in this forum.

I have been following the threads on the DISH DTVpal Coupon Eligible Converter Box. The timer feature makes it interesting, since, if they work, they can be used to enable a VCR or DVD recorder that is not equiped with an ATSC tuner to record digital stations, in SD. The threads seem to indicate that some users are having a lot of trouble with the timers, while others are not.

Part of the problem is that the unit will keep resetting its clock to the time reported in the PSIP data of the last station visited, unless the unit finds a digital station suppling TVGOS data. As I understand it, the distribution of TVGOS data will transition from the analog PBS stations to the digital CBS stations.

Does anyone know if KCNC-DT is currently carrying the TVGOS data?

FYI: It is not that the DTVpal will get the time from the TVGOS data. It is that, if it finds a digital station with TVGOS data, it will treat that station as the time master, and will only reset the clock using the time reported in that stations PSIP data. In that situation, the timer for the clock becomes somewhat stable, and there is some hope that the unit may tune to the desired station at the desired time.

There seem to be other things that can cause the unit's timers to get messed up. Sometimes the programmed stations get changed or scheduled recording events are completely deleted. The reports are random enough that I have begun to speculate that the DTVpal is barfing on data from specific stations. It wants to do a lot of scanning of the available stations, since it tries to maintain a program guide using the Program Information in the PSIP broadcast by the stations. If the DTVpal is having problems, it could be because the station data is not compliant, or it just includes something the DISH programmers do not handle properly.

After all that lead-in, I will get to the real questions.
Is anyone in the area using a DISH DTVpal?
Do the timers work well for you?

While I realize this doesn't answer your question, I have a slightly different take on the DTVpal. I've thought of why would I want to record HDTV programming in SD when it appears fairly certain that Dish Network will be making the TR-50 (or whatever it will eventually be marketed as) available soon? I plan on waiting for it. With it, I should be able to record HD programming. There isn't any SD programming I want to record, so why would I want the DTVpal coupled with an analog VCR? Seems to me that that the VCR tape/analog scenario is for those who don't own an HDTV.

Regarding PSIP and each station's "time", I don't think any of the Denver stations are totally compliant with the FCC's A65C requirements. It seems that each station has a different time set in their PSIP stream (despite the atomic clock being located in Boulder) and many of them provide no program info beyond the current program being shown, if they even provide the current program info. The TR-50 won't resolve this problem, but at least it'll be HD capable and I assume it'll have a timer. I also suspect that the "Rocky Mountain Minute" will come into play, which will screw up setting recordings by TVGOS data vs. a timer.

So my bottom line is that I'm not interested in the DTVpal because is it's SD. The future is HD and using SD technology is akin to buying into obsolesence.

While I realize this doesn't answer your question, I have a slightly different take on the DTVpal. I've thought of why would I want to record HDTV programming in SD when it appears fairly certain that Dish Network will be making the TR-50 (or whatever it will eventually be marketed as) available soon? I plan on waiting for it. With it, I should be able to record HD programming. There isn't any SD programming I want to record, so why would I want the DTVpal coupled with an analog VCR? Seems to me that that the VCR tape/analog scenario is for those who don't own an HDTV.

Or those who like to archive content for future viewing far into the future.

The problem with consumer HD DVRs is that if you fill up the hard drive, you have to delete something.

If you have an external drive, it's "mated" to the DVR, so if the DVR dies, so does your stored external content.

I've got SVHS/VHS tapes dating back decades now; saving content and editing out commercials has been something I've long done to save content. Can't do that with a DVR without going to SD anyway.

That type of archiving ceases with HD recording just to a consumer PVR, especially with the advent of the various copy protection flags, unless you take the time to archive it.

But whatever you archive to will be SD anyway and thus "obsolete" according to you.

Pity there are any number of programs I've been able to save over the years to SD that aren't available in any format, anywhere. Ed was originally broadcast in HD on NBC, but it's not available anywhere - except on the SD copies of various episodes I have. I certainly couldn't have kept them all lying around on a TiVo drive for years. Likewise, those who videotaped WKRP in syndication don't look silly given the music changes made for the DVD release.

I'll not even get into the fact that SD content is still the majority of content being created - even major programs like the BBC's Doctor Who.

A bit off topic, but this article from digg.com caught my eye.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4275063.html

A bit off topic, but this article from digg.com caught my eye.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4275063.html

I don't think it is that far off topic. This article directly applies to all the Denver broadcasters that have subchannels. Sports, especially SNF on 9.1 are prone to being "tainted with blocky, pixelated noise and image artifacts" (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how_to/4270702.html). 6.1's nature shows with a lot of movement are very blurry. A while back, I did a comparison between KGWN's (5.1) college football and 4.1's. 5.1 has a subchannel and 4.1 does not. I couldn't even watch the game on 5.1, the pixelation was horrible. 4.1's presentation of the same game was crystal clear.

I seem to notice this more than others. I even have a fairly small 42" TV and I can see it from far away. It is very annoying to me, especially considering they went through all this trouble to switch to DTV and they shot themselves in the foot by not using an advanced codec. I don't even see them being able to do 1080p. Is it possible for them to use something other than mpeg-2 or have are they married themselves to it? I just hope that no more of the stations add subchannels.

While I realize this doesn't answer your question, I have a slightly different take on the DTVpal. I've thought of why would I want to record HDTV programming in SD when it appears fairly certain that Dish Network will be making the TR-50 (or whatever it will eventually be marketed as) available soon? I plan on waiting for it. With it, I should be able to record HD programming. There isn't any SD programming I want to record, so why would I want the DTVpal coupled with an analog VCR? Seems to me that that the VCR tape/analog scenario is for those who don't own an HDTV.

Regarding PSIP and each station's "time", I don't think any of the Denver stations are totally compliant with the FCC's A65C requirements. It seems that each station has a different time set in their PSIP stream (despite the atomic clock being located in Boulder) and many of them provide no program info beyond the current program being shown, if they even provide the current program info. The TR-50 won't resolve this problem, but at least it'll be HD capable and I assume it'll have a timer. I also suspect that the "Rocky Mountain Minute" will come into play, which will screw up setting recordings by TVGOS data vs. a timer.

So my bottom line is that I'm not interested in the DTVpal because is it's SD. The future is HD and using SD technology is akin to buying into obsolesence.
I certainly accept your position as a valid one, but not universally held.

A lot of people use a VCR as a time shift device. It is probably politically incorrect to bring up the example of someone who wants to see what happened on their favorite soap opera while they were at work. In that case, they may not care much about PQ, and they may not want to spend a lot of money to maintain that capability when the analog stations go away. If the DTVpal timer worked, they would only have to spend a very modest amount, because of the coupons, to allow their old VCR to continue to accomplish the time shift for them.

I appreciate that many people value HD TV. Some programs look dramatically better. However, some people do not care. I presume you have seen the cartoon which depicts SD TV as blurry garbage and HD TV as crystal clear garbage.

Until there is a lot of great HD progamming on the air, I don't think everyone will feel the need to toss out all their SD equipment, if they can keep it working for a few dollars. I have seen an ad for the DTVpal as, free with the coupon, although you probably would be charged the sales tax, and I have not seen the unit in stock.

I was expressing only my opinion regarding SD recording and I was hoping that it would be taken that way. I certainly didn't mean to criticize anyone who wants to record programming in SD format and I don't think I did. I merely wanted to throw out another option - the TR50.

I don't want anything SD anymore. I've taken stuff off of VHS tapes - everything from home movies to TV programming. I used the Dazzler 80 as a capture device. The video from VHS tapes isn't acceptable to me anymore. If it is to any of you, than all we have is difference of opinion. I just have no desire to archive something I can't stand to watch!

As far as the TR-50 HD PVR from Dish, there's a lot of confusion about what features it will actually have. There's a thread on it in Hardware forum. I'm counting on it having the capability to off load content so that I can archive stuff. There's HD software out there now - I have Nero 8 - which can be used for editing. As far as the broadcast flag, to the best of my knowledge, the networks aren't using it (although NBC mistakenly put it on one program a couple of months ago). Even if they do use it, if your equipment ignores it, which I think the TR-50 will do, it's meaningless. I believe that only Microsoft's XP and Vista Media Center honor the flag. Microsoft is in bed with the networks - MSNBC. I also recollect that the FCC ruled that there can't be a requirement to honor the flag for OTA. I have Vista Media Center and two HD tuners, so I can record digital OTA TV now. I'd like to have the TR-50 just for the convenience of playback on my TV rather than watching on a computer. I haven't archived anything off of my computer since I don't have Blu-ray player.

I agree that there is a desire/market out there to record SD content, especially programming such as soap operas that aren't in HD. You don't need an HD recorder for that. But the trend is, IMO, that SD is going away, although, with re-runs, etc. it'll be a long time from now before it disappears 100% (and I'm not considering subchannels in that statement). Some syndicated programs are now HD, like Wheel of Fortune, and more are coming next season, such as Oprah and Ellen. And I'm sure that if you want to record a local newscast, KMGH will be in SD for the foreseeable future!

The DTVpal appears to be widely available from internet sources, including direct ordering from Dish Network. I've seen posts where it was available in brick and mortar shops in some places around the country. The price I've seen is generally around $60. It was supposed to be $40 when it was announced in January, but that never materialized.

I hope the DTVpal works (timer issue, etc.) for VCR's for those of you interested. My take is that I'd rather spend the money on something that can record in both SD and HD.

If you found my reply offensive, I do apologize. I had hoped that my opening sentence made my position clear.
I certainly accept your position as a valid one, but not universally held.

I just meant to explain why, in my opinion, some users would want to hold on to their old SD equipment as long as they felt they could get some use out of it, and not spend a lot to do it.

The DTVpal appears to be widely available from internet sources, including direct ordering from Dish Network. I've seen posts where it was available in brick and mortar shops in some places around the country. The price I've seen is generally around $60. It was supposed to be $40 when it was announced in January, but that never materialized.

If anyone cares, the ad I mentioned was from Ultimate Electronics. I did stop in at the Boulder store late in the week that I saw the ad. The sales guys did say: They had sold a few for the $40 price, were currently out, were expecting more, and were expecting the everyday price to be $40.

When it comes to DTV tuners, this appears to be the best buy currently going, and going fast from what I see in other forums:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ZAT501HD

I didn't find any reply to my initial TR-50 post as offensive. I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that I was merely expressing my opinion and not criticizing theirs. That's what this forum is all about.

I'm surprised to see the DTVpal selling for $40. That is truly a freebee for anyone interested in it. I usually don't look at the Ultimate ad. Guess I better throw it into the Best Buy/Circuit City pile next Sunday.

I don't want anything SD anymore. I've taken stuff off of VHS tapes - everything from home movies to TV programming. I used the Dazzler 80 as a capture device. The video from VHS tapes isn't acceptable to me anymore. If it is to any of you, than all we have is difference of opinion. I just have no desire to archive something I can't stand to watch!

If you watch any SD programming on DISH, what you're seeing is arguably worse than VHS.

Watching Mad Men earlier tonight on AMC was just plain painful, there's no other way to put it, but I think I could make a decent argument for it being easier to watch soft analog video as found on VHS than soft digital video from DISH that is being compressed to the point it's nearly a handful of colored blocks moving around.

(Really - rent Mad Men on DVD - it nearly looks HD, and of course is available in HD on Blu-Ray.)

I also hope by the same token, you no longer watch or rent DVD content as it too is SD…

OFF TOPIC: I believe that Dish PQ on SD varies from channel to channel just like it does with their HD (e.g., my Cinemax and Starz HD channels are sharper and deeper colored than most of the rest of my Dish HD channels; I suspect bit rates and number of compressions are the culprit). With SD, Fox News still has very good PQ for SD, while IFC and Lifetime, not so much.

I differentiate SD sources. While I can't stand to watch something from VHS tape (way too soft and blurred), I don't have a problem with good quality SD like DVDs (most anyway), local OTA SD broadcasts (e.g., KBDI or the upscaled KWGN and KDVR), and Dish SD like Fox News (guess I said that already). I so can't stand VHS PQ that I've been gradually converting those VHS movie tapes that are unprotected (more than one might think) and for which I don't have any desire to drop more bucks on for a DVD, to DVD on my JVC DVDR/VHS. The conversion greatly improves the PQ of VHS tapes and gets them to my minimum acceptable PQ level. OTOH, if I actually need to watch a VHS tape of something on my system, the JVC allows for progressive scan VHS (tape is up-converted to 480p output via component cable by running the VHS tape signal through the DVD side of the JVC). Ain't great, but better than VHS, who's day has truly passed.

My wife, who appreciates HD, but, like many women, doesn't see that as a make or break for watching a program, has also sworn off VHS tapes. Because of that, we haven't watched one of our stock VHS movies tapes in several years. Even she can't stand the softness and blur of VHS on a large screen, non-CRT TV.

Originally posted by kucharsk:
If you watch any SD programming on DISH, what you're seeing is arguably worse than VHS.

Watching Mad Men earlier tonight on AMC was just plain painful, there's no other way to put it, but I think I could make a decent argument for it being easier to watch soft analog video as found on VHS than soft digital video from DISH that is being compressed to the point it's nearly a handful of colored blocks moving around.

(Really - rent Mad Men on DVD - it nearly looks HD, and of course is available in HD on Blu-Ray.)

I also hope by the same token, you no longer watch or rent DVD content as it too is SD…

I start with E* channel 9419 and go up from there, with a few exceptions, such as Smithsonian, which isn't mapped to the 9400 series of channels. The only time I watch SD is when the Rockies game (or the Avs in season) is not being sent out in HD, but I tend to treat it more as a radio than TV since I think the SD PQ is horrid. I also catch a couple of shows on KQCK once in a while but that's more for nostalgia than serious TV viewing and I have no interest in archiving them.

My wife rents SD DVD's. I don't watch them. In fact, she's watching "21" right now while I type this. She'll also watch the SD version of an HD channel on Dish and not really care. I'm really not interested in a Blu-Ray because I don't watch movies, even in HD on TV, and my wife is perfectly satisfied with SD.

So, yeah, I don't want anything SD anymore which is why I'm not interested in keeping legacy analog equipment such as VHS recorders and would rather have a TR-50. YMMV.

Well 24.1 (24.3 for me) is completely unstable now, going back to aiming at Morrison. I've got 6.1 (from 18.1) now at 40-47% which is bare minimum watchable. Wonder how long it takes for their taller and more powerful transmitter.

So I pointed my DB4 to magnetic 307 last night and it still didn't get me a single channel, besides 53 or 54 analog ... so then I cheched my channelmaster connections and one was loose. So I tightened the loose RG6 connector and then I got 16 digitals and 8 analogs ... I was very happy. My signal strength was 80-90+ on all the digitial channels ... so I was thrilled, being in castle rock and basically behind a 6800' ridge. So I did learn very quicly how necessary my preamp really is for getting OTA channels on my Dish 942 ... only 1 channel without, 24 with.

Just wondered if anyone here lives near 5700 Arapahoe in Boulder. I am going to set up a projector for an upcoming event at Spice of Life Catering Events Center @ Flatirons Golg Course, being fed by an OTA DTV tuner. I am hoping I can get by with rabbit ears and pick up 4, 7, and/or 9 (DTV) for the evening. I can do a decent job from my house (75th and Lookout Rd) with rabbit ears and a little tweaking, but am not sure if the Arapahoe location will be blocked by terrain. I will be running a quick setup and test tonight so no biggie if no one knows, just thought I would check here to see what luck anyone might have had from that area.

So, yeah, I don't want anything SD anymore which is why I'm not interested in keeping legacy analog equipment such as VHS recorders and would rather have a TR-50. YMMV.

I time shift everything and I really want the TR-50 but who knows if we will ever see it. May never hit the shelves. What are my other choices? Not much. I have a Toshiba DVR HDD that I really like but it does not have a digital tuner. Short of throwing it away I could make it work with the DVTpal. If and when the TR-50 comes out I will buy that. I wish I could go completely HD but that is not totally practical yet. Life is full of compromises.

I time shift everything and I really want the TR-50 but who knows if we will ever see it. May never hit the shelves. What are my other choices? Not much. I have a Toshiba DVR HDD that I really like but it does not have a digital tuner. Short of throwing it away I could make it work with the DVTpal. If and when the TR-50 comes out I will buy that. I wish I could go completely HD but that is not totally practical yet. Life is full of compromises.

For about four years, I've been using (and abused by) the LG LST3410A that includes HD tuner. Maddeningly poor internal software, it loses its mind occasionally and needs to be unplugged to reset it, then might require deleting the pending recording schedule. But when it works, it's good quality recording. About 12-14 hours HD capacity disk, 22-24 hours SD. I can't recommend getting one because of the weaknesses, but I've learned to cope with its quirks. I use it for all my time shifting , completely supplanting the VCR, and it performs the OTA HD tuning duty for my 50-inch Samsung 720p. (Eight hours of HD Wimbledon final is on the disk now, so I might not be able to do a lot more recording until I can bring myself to delete the game.) I don't know if the 3410A is still available. Almost hoping it breaks someday so I'm forced to get something better.

I think I heard there was a Sony HD DVR due out this fall, and I may look at it if the disk capacity is significantly better.

For about four years, I've been using (and abused by) the LG LST3410A that includes HD tuner.

Don't think it is made any more. I like the fact that my Toshiba also has a DVD recorder so I can off load video. It's not HD but does a very nice job of SD and you can edit the video before dubbing (commercials). I can also dub home movies from my video camera.

I think I heard there was a Sony HD DVR due out this fall, and I may look at it if the disk capacity is significantly better.

Really? I thought that the TR-50 was our only hope for an over the air HD HDD recorder (and it will not have a DVD/BD recorder). I hope someone else will come out with one.

Is anyone in the area using a DISH DTVpal?
Do the timers work well for you?

I purchased a DTVPal hoping that I could use it in conjunction with my existing VCR. So far, it hasn't lived up to my expectations. The timers may or may fire and frequently get deleted for no apparent reason. I've read reviews of other products that have similar issues when using an automatic time setting, so I don't think this issue is limited to the DTVPal. The main problem is that the unit does not provide any mechanism for setting the time manually. Other than the timers, the device works pretty well.

On another subject, are you able to receive KQCK-DT (11.1/11.2) on your Vizio VX32L? I just got back from a two week vacation, and suddenly, KQCK is no longer viewable on my Vizio, but my Philips DVD recorder still receives it. It appears that RTN has changed their programming and replaced several shows with new ones, so I'm sure that has something to do with recent problems that some people have had with KQCK.

I purchased a DTVPal hoping that I could use it in conjunction with my existing VCR. So far, it hasn't lived up to my expectations. The timers may or may fire and frequently get deleted for no apparent reason. I've read reviews of other products that have similar issues when using an automatic time setting, so I don't think this issue is limited to the DTVPal. The main problem is that the unit does not provide any mechanism for setting the time manually. Other than the timers, the device works pretty well.

On another subject, are you able to receive KQCK-DT (11.1/11.2) on your Vizio VX32L? I just got back from a two week vacation, and suddenly, KQCK is no longer viewable on my Vizio, but my Philips DVD recorder still receives it. It appears that RTN has changed their programming and replaced several shows with new ones, so I'm sure that has something to do with recent problems that some people have had with KQCK.
Thanks for the Info on the DTVpal. How well it works seems to be effected by where the user lives. As you pointed out, the times being sent out by ALL the stations effect the clock setting, unless the local CBS DTV station is broadcasting TVGOS, so it will lock to it. I left a message to KCNC, asking if they broadcast TVGOS, but I never got a reply. Even if the time is right, some users are still reporting problems. They report timer changes that seem to be related to the EPG download function. I am beginning to suspect that the routines that collect the Program Information from the PSIP for the EPG have problems. There may be bugs when they collect a lot of data. The one guy who claims he cannot make his fail only get 4 stations with a total of 9 sub-channels. Thay is going to be a lot less PSIP information than we get in Denver. In his case, the Program Information is probably a lot easier to process.
I will watch for reports on the Zinwell ZAT-970A. It is supposed to have 8 timers, and use an automatic or MANUAL clock. Reportedly, they did not try to implement an EPG, (I believe they just display the current program information for the current station) so their PSIP processing should not be as complicated, and they may have a better chance at stable operation.

I don't get KQCK-DT with my antenna arrangement. My antennas are pointed South, and the tranmitter is a fair amount North of me. I normally get a blurry version of their signal on 39-LP which is South of me, but about 25 miles and Low Power.

On another item, I talked to someone in Vizio tech support about the VX32L channel scan problem involving KRMA-DT. He asked if I could provide a capture of a sample of the data stream, which I cannot. He said he would refer the problem to Vizio Engineering. On Friday, 7-25-08, I got a message from someone at Vizio on my answering machine. He did not identify his organization, but hopefully he is with Engineering. He said he was going to call the contact name in Engineering at KRMA that I have provided. I emailed the KRMA person all the information I had provided to Vizio, and asked to be informed what, if anything, developed. Today, I left a voicemail to the person at Vizio, asking for status. I have not heard anything back from either of them.

Missed the first 15 mins of smart travels, but hey, I got to watch create while I was waiting. :rolleyes: I guess that's about par for the course for 6.1.

Does anybody notice a little audio static on 2+1/2 men on 2.1? Every few minutes I get some crackling in the audio.

Does anybody notice a little audio static on 2+1/2 men on 2.1? Every few minutes I get some crackling in the audio.

I've noticed that crackling sound too. I just assumed that my antenna wasn't positioned optimally or something. It's nice to know that it isn't just me.

If you didn't already know it, AVS Forum had a backup glitch and all posts from 8/2 to 8/11 are lost forever. If you posted something that you wanted in the permanent record or were awaiting an answer to, please post it again.

Ya, when is the Lake Cedar Group barbeque? It is like coming up on Sept. pretty quick here..........

Ya, when is the Lake Cedar Group barbeque? It is like coming up on Sept. pretty quick here..........

According to a (S)CARE representative, the LCG has been barbecuing the people on Lookout on a daily basis all summer long.:eek:

The local Ion affiliate, which as we all know has not yet started broadcasting a digital signal, is apparently going to put a full-power DTV transmitter on the air by Wednesday, Aug. 20:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=101261655&formid=337&fac_num=68695 (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101261655&formid=337&fac_num=68695)

The local Ion affiliate, which as we all know has not yet started broadcasting a digital signal, is apparently going to put a full-power DTV transmitter on the air by Wednesday, Aug. 20:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=101261655&formid=337&fac_num=68695 (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101261655&formid=337&fac_num=68695)

Where is their alternate site?

Where is their alternate site?

They're sharing a tower with KDEN at about 40.1 north, 104.9 west. KPXC says it's in Longmont, but earthtools (http://www.earthtools.org) puts those coordinates in unincorporated Weld County about 1 1/2 miles east of the Dacono/Firestone city limits. It's a bit under 30 airline miles from downtown Denver.

Is anyone else experiencing pixelation and motion blurs with KUSA HD Olympics broadcasts? I noticed it especially with fast rotation like in gymnastic and diving and with the graphic animations.

I am really interested in what others are seeing, especially plasma owners, since both my Sony TVs are LCDs (KDF-E50A10 RPTV and KDL52XBR4 LCD). I know LCD TVs have motion blurs, but I did not think the graphic animations would be such a problem.

They're sharing a tower with KDEN at about 40.1 north, 104.9 west. KPXC says it's in Longmont, but earthtools (http://www.earthtools.org) puts those coordinates in unincorporated Weld County about 1 1/2 miles east of the Dacono/Firestone city limits. It's a bit under 30 airline miles from downtown Denver.

That pretty much leaves me out of ever seeing them via an OTA signal. They will be at an azimuth of 23 degrees from me. LOM is on an azimuth of 211 degrees and my other antenna was left in its RP receiving position and just gets KWHD now at an azimuth of 127 degrees. Since I'm not going to add a third antenna, move either of my existing antennas, and not by a rotor, I guess I'll just have use my Dish Network version of KPXC. Too bad because I get a really great OTA analog signal from them now.

mifronte- I also notice the pixilization and motion blurs. It seems that there are several markets around the country that have this problem. I'm pretty sure it is not your TV. Here is a link to another site that details the problems:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=135883

Is anyone else experiencing pixelation and motion blurs with KUSA HD Olympics broadcasts? I noticed it especially with fast rotation like in gymnastic and diving and with the graphic animations.

I am really interested in what others are seeing, especially plasma owners, since both my Sony TVs are LCDs (KDF-E50A10 RPTV and KDL52XBR4 LCD). I know LCD TVs have motion blurs, but I did not think the graphic animations would be such a problem.

I posted the same observation last Saturday, but it was wiped out forever by AVS Forums backup snafu. I'm mainly watching the Olympics on a Samsung DLP and I get pixilation on fast action from both OTA and my Dish HD feed. I can't tell if the problem is Channel 9 local or further upstream in NBC. It has been very disconcerting to have to deal with it though.

mifronte- I also notice the pixilization and motion blurs. It seems that there are several markets around the country that have this problem. I'm pretty sure it is not your TV. Here is a link to another site that details the problems:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=135883

Thank you Iwanthd for the link. Sounds like all the pixelation and motion blurs are in the source and I can stop tweaking the settings on my TV and just enjoy the Olympics. At least the slow motion replay is not blurred.

Thank you Iwanthd for the link. Sounds like all the pixelation and motion blurs are in the source and I can stop tweaking the settings on my TV and just enjoy the Olympics. At least the slow motion replay is not blurred.

The problem is not at the source, it lies with 9-1. Their subchannel, weather minus, robs bandwith from the main channel. The fast motion shots don't have enough data. SNF suffers from the same problem.

They call themselves the "HD leader," they are more like the HD lagger as they have the worst picture quality of any of the locals.

I discussed this pixellation a while back with some avsforum member who's name I can't remember right now. He assured me that it was not NBC's fault. I was a little skeptical. I came up with a little test that supports what he said. Since none of the Denver networks that carry sports have a subchannel except 9-1, I pointed my antenna north to get 5-1 out of Cheyenne. They are a CBS affiliate that has a sub (5.2). I tuned to some college football and Bronco games, the picture was horribly pixellated with severe motion blur, exactly the same as 9-1. I then tuned to 4.1 to do an A and B, 4.1's picture was perfect, no trace of any blur. The bottom line is that any program with a lot of fast movement or lots of camera changes or lots of resource intensive graphics, suffers on a channel that is not using full bandwith.

I am very greatful that 4.1 and 31.1 don't have a subchannel. The quality of their football is top notch.

With all this rain, my preamp got wet again. I just dried it out. 2.1 4.1 7.1 9.1 20.1 and 31.1 all seem to be at about the same power but I've lost 6.1 and 12.1 again. I verified that the amp is working but I wonder if is not at full capacity. 6.1 and 12.1 were always marginable at best for me anyway. Anybody else notice a signal change for the pbs stations?

I bet 6.1 is loving their decision to move to Morrison right about now. Transition is 6 months away and I think they're screwed.

I am very greatful that 4.1 and 31.1 don't have a subchannel. The quality of their football is top notch.

For the record, it matters not whether KDVR-DT has a subchannel. Fox's splicer means that the feed is compressed by Fox; space has already been reserved for a subchannel whether one exists or not. You're seeing the same thing with no subchannel as someone in Scranton, PA watching Fox with two subchannels.

It's the one case where a subchannel on an HD station actually makes sense because it won't impact the picture quality in any way.

- Trip

For the record, it matters not whether KDVR-DT has a subchannel. Fox's splicer means that the feed is compressed by Fox; space has already been reserved for a subchannel whether one exists or not. You're seeing the same thing with no subchannel as someone in Scranton, PA watching Fox with two subchannels.

It's the one case where a subchannel on an HD station actually makes sense because it won't impact the picture quality in any way.

- Trip

Thanks, that's good to know. I wonder why KDVR-DT's football looks so much better than KUSA's if this is the case. Is it because it is 720P or maybe they do a better job of compression?

KWGN 2.1 continues to have audio issues. :mad: Not only with the intermittent issues on SD but with their HD shows. Last night they had major audio issues with Smallville in HD so they switched to SD. Don't remember if they ever switched back to HD. Has anyone here received an explanation on the issues?

Thanks, that's good to know. I wonder why KDVR-DT's football looks so much better than KUSA's if this is the case. Is it because it is 720P or maybe they do a better job of compression?

Probably a combination of both. 720p requires slightly less bandwidth than 1080i does, but I think Fox also has the absolute top of the line, best encoder (since they only need one, and not one for each affiliate).

The other reason may be that the other networks may have to decompress and recompress their video before it gets sent out to the transmitter; no such extra step for Fox.

- Trip

Just curious, but can they have their own logo in the lower center of the screen (besides the customizable fox one in the bottom right) if they are not decoding/encoding the stream?

Just curious, but can they have their own logo in the lower center of the screen (besides the customizable fox one in the bottom right) if they are not decoding/encoding the stream?

I don't think so, but I'm not sure. You'd have to ask someone more familiar with the splicer than I am.

- Trip

Thanks for the reply Trip. I'm not sure either, but I'm suspecting that they are bypassing the splicer. Going back to their early days, (pre-slicer), they had a non-standard setup (not using Fox's approved equipment) which they finally got working (after the SuperBowl, unfortunately, which was very horribly choppy with out-of-sequence frames). They also had a 14:9 aspect ratio for SD. Then their splicer was installed and they finally quit the 14:9 (not related). Later, however, they started with their red and black double-bumper-sticker Fox31-Denver Fox21 Ft.Collins across the bottom center, sometimes leaving it on for the whole show and were able to do a moving-shrink their picture in HD to place scrolling weather alerts outside of the red-framed 16:9 image instead of switching to SD. I'm not sure if they still do this, I haven't been watching much lately, but their bug was changed to something less obvious. Anyway, in recording 24, sometimes the filesize (minus the commercials) was 4.3 GB, while during the repeat of the same show and did their HD PIP, the file size was closer to 7 GB, which causes me to suspect their encoder is not able to compress to the same level as Fox's.

My guess is that they want greater control of the video content than Fox gives them, but this is all conjecture on my part. If they do bypass the splicer though (or modify the splicer output), I'm thinking a subchannel might hurt their PQ somewhat, but probably not as much as a sub on 1080i does.

Up until about June 2008, KDVR was a Fox O&O property. If I'm reading the previous post correctly, it appears that, as an O&O, KDVR was somewhat of a rogue? Or am I missing something?

That was my impression of them. I don't know the financial arrangements with an O&O - I had thought that the network got all the revenue and gave them operating costs plus in return. However, whatever the arrangements were, it seemed like they acted as if they were not FOX-owned, and now they aren't? I hadn't heard of that transition, but I hope it works out for them.

Wondering if anyone out there knows why "Create" airs during the day in stretched SD? Most of the programs are letterboxed, which says to me that the source was HD. So why not air them that way? :confused:

Ch 7's newscast is in HD. I was out of town all week. When did this happen?

Whoa. That's the first sighting I recall seeing. Looks like that earlier rumor of them following CBS4 shortly were true!

Nice! Not many cities have 3 local HD newscasts to choose from.

This must have happened today. Looks good!

The local Ion affiliate, which as we all know has not yet started broadcasting a digital signal, is apparently going to put a full-power DTV transmitter on the air by Wednesday, Aug. 20:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=101261655&formid=337&fac_num=68695 (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101261655&formid=337&fac_num=68695)
I just started picking up KPXC this afternoon in South Longmont near the intersection of Rt 287 & Pike Rd.

I just started picking up KPXC this afternoon in South Longmont near the intersection of Rt 287 & Pike Rd.

Yep, I got 59.1, 59.2, 59.3 and 59.4 KPXC_DT coming in at 77% off the side of my antenna in the Garden Acres Park area.

Anyone else notice the audio on 59-1 is way, way low as compared to 59 analog or the rest of the KPXC-DT subchannels?

Obviously that also means I'm getting it just fine in Louisville with my antenna aimed directly at Lookout; a bit stronger than KUSA's signal from Lookout, actually.

Anyone else notice the audio on 59-1 is way, way low as compared to 59 analog or the rest of the KPXC-DT subchannels?

Obviously that also means I'm getting it just fine in Louisville with my antenna aimed directly at Lookout; a bit stronger than KUSA's signal from Lookout, actually.

Yes, I have the same low audio on 59.1 as you noted.

Rockies game on channel 20-1 today PQ was terrible. Why can't they have it in HI-Def?

They show channel 9 news on 20-1 in HI-Def!

KPXC on the air today

Thanks for the heads-up. Got them scanned in, but that's about it. We get a frozen image now and again, so we're right on the edge of lock. Doesn't help that they're 65 degrees away from LOM here. Better antennas going up when cooler WX arrives, so that may help.

Posted by Old TV Watcher:
Rockies game on channel 20-1 today PQ was terrible. Why can't they have it in HI-Def?
I recollect a post at the beginning of the baseball season (I didn't search for it) that said the Rockies didn't want to pay for HD on KTVD. Since I thought the station paid the Rockies for the rights to the game, not the other way around, I suppose KTVD/Gannett doesn't want to spend the money.

Ya, when is the Lake Cedar Group barbeque? It is like coming up on Sept. pretty quick here..........Not a peek on the BBQ. I bet they decided not to have it. Oh well. If I hear anything, I'll pass it along.

If anyone is looking for an antenna installation company, myself as well as my partner (Tim Chamberlain), install Channel Master antennas (we supply and install). We also install Ku-band FTA satellite systems. We work from north Denver to Fort Collins, east to Fort Morgan and area.

I won't try to sound like an advertisement here, as the ADM will probably delete this if I do. I have 30+ years experience with antenna installations, while my buddy Tim is a master electrician and can cover *anything* electrical. (TnT Custom Electric, Milliken, Colorado) We just want to let the general public know about our antenna services, especially the senior citizens that don't feel comfortable installing a new antenna.

Its already been mentioned, but if you haven't since Saturday (16th), you should run an update on your local digital channels. KPXC-DT 43-1 (remaps to 59) signed on the air during the day on Saturday. You'll get 59-1 Ion; 59-2 Qubo; 59-3 IonLife; 59-4 Worship.

Jim Thomas
TnT Custom Electric
Milliken, Colorado
cell 970-397-0591

anythingwire @ yahoo.com

Wondering if anyone out there knows why "Create" airs during the day in stretched SD? Most of the programs are letterboxed, which says to me that the source was HD. So why not air them that way? :confused:

PBS feeds Create nationally only in 4:3 SD as it's intended for subchannel broadcast.

Anyone else notice the new "Please check back soon for new programming" screen on 2.2? I wonder what they plan to air on that channel...

Finally got a chance to view the new Hi-Def newscast on KMGH-DT this morning from about 6 AM until 7 AM. I started with my Dish satellite version and was pleased. Like all the channels that more over to HD news, there is a mix of SD and HD, as not all of the cameras used are HD yet. But, overall things looked good.

However, checking their OTA signal, I found a strong siganl, but with a terribly annoying lip-sync issue. Couldn't stand to watch it! Switched off it and switched back several times, but the lip-sync issue continued.

On a related note, I noticed that KCNC-DT's local, morning newcast is not in DD5.1. This continues a KCNC-DT tradition of sub-standard audio, whether local or national. KUSA-DT was the first local HD news and, IMHO, is still the best. But, I love the fact that the others are at least competing.

What's with channel 7. I was very pleased with their HD local news but why are they showing "Goob Morning America in SD this morning?

Glad to see that KPXC is finally offering digital OTA! Haven't watched much, but they appear to have some interesting stuff on ION Life and Worship. Always nice to have more choices.

Haven't seen anyone mention KQCK lately. It has been MIA for me for the past couple of weeks. Just wondering if they are indeed off the air or if it's just me. I usually only receive them at about 60%. Hope their reliability improves.

Anyone else notice the new "Please check back soon for new programming" screen on 2.2? I wonder what they plan to air on that channel...


I noticed it early this morning. I'm expecting it to be one of the new *movie channels* that has launched this year to provide additional programming as a sub-channel for television stations. There are currently three and counting, *movie channels* that are to only broadcast as sub-channels. I received an email from the VP of one of those channels, informing me that they are in negotiations with one of the Denver channels. He wouldn't reveal which one it is.

I'll be surprised if KMGH doesn't add the AccuWeather Channel as a sub-channel, once they go full power. Twelve of the top 30 tv market ABC affiliates run the AccuWeather Channel as a sub-channel.

Rick313: KQCK is definitely off the air. I live about 15 miles southeast of their tower. As mentioned on a previous page or two, I am curious if anyone at Equity *knows* their station is down? I would think if the FCC was aware of the situation, something would be happening with them.

On a side note, I've been able to pull in Alliance, Nebraska's NET affiliate twice now, with full decoding, at 147 miles to my northeast. KTNE-DT 13-1 (RF 24) runs PBS 13-1; PBS-X 13-2; Create 13-3. Also, this morning, with the foggy conditions, I was able to fully decode KRDO-DT 13-1 (RF 24) Colorado Springs @ 105 miles. I watched GMA for awhile on them. They also run the Springs LP affiliate for Univision as a sub-channel. I had KKTV-DT 11-1 in for awhile also.

Jim Thomas - wdx0fbu
Milliken, CO - 40 mi N of Denver
40.22.830'N 104.59.500'W / DN70ko

KQCK is definitely off the air. I live about 15 miles southeast of their tower. As mentioned on a previous page or two, I am curious if anyone at Equity *knows* their station is down? I would think if the FCC was aware of the situation, something would be happening with them.

KQCK filed for permission to go "licensed and silent" on its analog facility due to an equipment failure:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101252531&formid=910&fac_num=18287

Note especially the citation at the bottom. It includes Equity's sob story about "economic conditions."

Perhaps something similar has occurred with the digital facility -- although I suspect that it is economic forces, rather than technical failures, that have silenced 11.1 and 11.2.


Jim McCauley

What's with channel 7. I was very pleased with their HD local news but why are they showing "Good Morning America in SD this morning?

It's not an issue with KMGH-DT. ABC News has yet to make the switch to HD. All of its shows are still 4:3 standard definition, including GMA, the evening news, Nightline, This Week with George Stephanopoulos, "prime-time crime," and so forth.

KQCK filed for permission to go "licensed and silent" on its analog facility due to an equipment failure...

The simulcast on Class A affiliate KQDK in Aurora is on-air, but with a chronic A/V sync problem. Sound lags video by a good two seconds, perhaps more. Yikes... what an operation.

PBS' "Nightly Business Report" had an interview with FCC Commissioner Kevin Martin yesterday evening as part of a lengthy package about the transition to DTV broadcasting. During the interview he said that analog broadcasts in some markets would be taken off-air for short periods as a way to encourage OTA analog viewers to get ready for the switch now. Commissioner Martin, from the transcript:

... the commissioners are going to these 80 markets that... have a high number of over the air viewers, people that still rely on rabbit ears or rooftop antennas. Then what we are going to do is actually coordinate with the local broadcasters and do so-called soft tests, where they'll actually announce that at a certain point in the day or evening they're going to go in and take their regular commercial programming off and put a special message on... so if you are getting that signal still, that means you still need to take steps to make sure that you are prepared.

At midnight last night, I took a look at KBDI analog on 12. Lo and behold, it's a soft test saying they were unable to offer programming because of "difficulties" with the transmitter (but they neglected to say just how they were displaying these messages over the analog carrier despite the problem), added that all programming is available on the digital channels, and urged viewers to take action now if they are unable to receive the digital broadcast. Sounded like the audio carrier actually was taken down since it was all white noise.

Looks like we're among the 80 markets.

GMA is usually in Hi-Def. I've been watching it in Hi-Def for Months.

GMA is usually in Hi-Def. I've been watching it in Hi-Def for Months.

Ouch! Could I have made it any more painfully obvious that I never watch the show? Bad assumption on my part -- all the others are in SD, at least when I last saw them. (I do look at Charlie Gibson and "Nightline" regularly, though.) Thanks!

Anyone getting 14.1 (15)? KTFD-DT I believe. I am not getting it. I sometimes like to watch soccer on it, even though the only word I understand is Gol!, Gol!, Gol!

THX, Greg

Anyone getting 14.1 (15)? KTFD-DT I believe. I am not getting it.

Missing in action, sir. First noticed it was out on Sunday afternoon; 14.1 is both strong and reliable here -- when it's up and running, of course. The analog signal is still there, though.

KQCK filed for permission to go "licensed and silent" on its analog facility due to an equipment failure:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101252531&formid=910&fac_num=18287

Note especially the citation at the bottom. It includes Equity's sob story about "economic conditions."

Perhaps something similar has occurred with the digital facility -- although I suspect that it is economic forces, rather than technical failures, that have silenced 11.1 and 11.2.


Jim McCauley

Also note that part of their justification for going silent on their analog facilities was the availability of the digital service. Don't they have to inform the FCC when they have an extended downtime like this?

The FCC requires notification if a station is off for more than 30 days.

- Trip

Decided to look for channel 43 (KPXC-DT) with each of my receivers, hoping for some bounced signal in my attic to hit my LOM UHF antenna. No such luck. The only ATSC tuner that even saw any signal on 43 was my Zenith DTT900 converter box, with the latest generation tuner. But, the signal it saw wasn't anywhere close to being of value. Guess I'll just forget about it for now as KPXC analog is still pretty sharp with at least one of my tuners and TV.

But you're missing out on the subchannel which always seems to have chicks wearing bikinis on it. Plus that boating show with Bob Bitchin (oh yes), whose name alone provides hours of entertainment. Plus, I think there's a kids channel and a religious channel... I don't know, I never get that far.

I can scan and receive KPXC-DT, sound is fine on all 4 sub-channels (this is on my H20-100, but i am unable to get it into the guide on my HR20-700, which as most of us know is the Direct HD DVR. I re-booted the damn thing, and reset everything, and it still does not show 59-1 thru 4. Any suggestions?

When i got the channels inthe guide on my H20-100, there was no program guide info yet. yes, yes i know, KPXC-DT has only been on-air for a couple of days.

FWIW, the PSIP data is still messed up on KRMT-DT.

My Sony TV receives them as 40.1, as does my DTT900, but my S3 TiVo sees a full strength signal from them but can't decode their signal at all.

I wonder if they'll ever bother to fix it.

Alicia Acuna was just reporting for the Fox News Channel from their "nerve center" in a restaurant near the Pepsi Center. She said the gagle of gear and equipment was all digital and "hi def". I wonder if they'll have a hi def broadcast next week?

Na, probably not.

Denver Finally Gets its DTV
After years of legal delays, supertower now on the air

TV Technology Magazine
(*interesting story)

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0082/t.15202.html

Denver Finally Gets its DTV
After years of legal delays, supertower now on the air

TV Technology Magazine
(*interesting story)

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0082/t.15202.html
Good story - thanks!

Thanks for the link, Tower Dude. There are a couple of head-scratchers in there. It's quibble time!

KCNC installed a Harris PowerCD UHF ATSC IOT transmitter for ERP of 974 kW on assigned channel 35. The station is transmitting ATSC at only 24 kW until the February 2009 transition.

They've got an STA for 500kW. That certainly doesn't mean they have to operate at that ERP, but 24 kW is a biiiig difference.

... NBC affiliate KUSA-TV9 is broadcasting half power at 500 kW, according to Chief Engineer Ken Highberger. After February 2009, the station will use a Harris VHF Platinum transmitter to move to a full-power 1,000 kW signal on channel 16.

That'll be big news to the both the FCC and the station. Both were under the impression that KUSA was moving back to RF channel 9 next February. This would also interfere with the plans of Syncom Media Group, which has received FCC authority to construct a digital companion station, KLPD-LD (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=168640), on the same channel.

Our intrepid correspondent probably got KCNC and KUSA mixed up in his notes. One also has to wonder whether he even knows what the FCC Allocation Table is, much less the entries it contains for this market.

OT: Golden City Manager Mike Bestor's at it again. Many of you remember him from Golden's losing tower battle. Now, he gets it again from Golden residents who wanted to stone him for announcing he was going to host a BBQ at his home for Al Jezera (who is in town for the DNC convention) I wonder if Deb was going to bartend. ;)

No BBQ at Bestorsl (http://goldentranscript.com/Articles-i-2008-08-21-207714.114125_No_BBQ_at_Bestors_for_Al_Jazeera.html)

Anybody watching the Bronco game? CBS4's ota audio signal seems to be 1.1.....center channel only.
Cheyenne's Cbs station, channel 5-1, Houston vs. Dallas, however, is full-blown 5.1 sound.

How come Cheyenne doesn't show the Donkeys?

Denver Finally Gets its DTV
After years of legal delays, supertower now on the air

TV Technology Magazine
(*interesting story)

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0082/t.15202.html

From the article:

“Everything in the commonly owned space is 100 percent redundant,” Mortimer said. In case of power loss, Calcon installed two 1.5 mW Cummins diesel generators with tanks holding 20,000 gallons of fuel. Each generator can come online within 12-15 seconds, he said.

I really want to get a look at a 1.5 milliwatt Cummins Diesel Generator. That ought to be something to see. ;)

Wow. So what do those do? Power an LED which shows the power is out?

With 20,000 gallons of fuel, those milliwatt generators should run for a zillion years!

I also think the 500kW claim by KUSA is way wrong; otherwise I can't explain why KUSA's signal is noticeably lower in power than any of the other stations on the LCG tower unless they've a null in their transmitter antenna in the direction of Louisville.

I also think the 500kW claim by KUSA is way wrong...

Yessiree. I have the same signal strength situation here. Interestingly, though, KUSA is not the lowest-power STA per FCC data:

KCNC 4.1... 500 kW
KMGH 7.1... 30 kW
KUSA 9.x... 37 kW
KTVD 20.1... 96 kW

The reason may be different antenna heights, but I didn't want to get into the records that deeply on a weekend morning. ;)

Sound is hosed again on KUSA tonight for the closing ceromony. :(

WShat's with Channel 2-2? Anybody know what "new programing their going to have?...and when?

No idea on 2-2, but the slate saying "The Box" had ceased programming was left up for I believe well over a year.

I suspect something like the new subchannel-only "This TV."

Chicago-based Weigel Broadcasting and Hollywood's fabled MGM Studios are teaming up on a new national television network geared to the expanding digital market.

Starting Oct. 1, the two companies will launch "This TV," a 24-hour channel consisting mainly of movies and classic television shows from the vast MGM library. The network, to be programmed out of Chicago, is designed to air on one of the additional channels broadcasters have been allotted on the digital spectrum.

The joint venture, announced Monday, also includes children's programming provided by Cooke Jar Entertainment.

In Chicago, "This" will air on one of the four digital channels allotted to Weigel's WCIU-Channel 26.

"We think 'This' is a great idea," said Neal Sabin, executive vice president of Weigel and the creative force behind the company's other programming services, including "The U," "Me-TV" and "Me-Too."

"'This' is a digital service designed by broadcasters for broadcasters looking for a viable, saleable product to put on the digital spectrum," Sabin said.

Based on Weigel's successes with "The U" and "Me" franchises, Sabin said "This" will provide virtually unlimited marketing opportunities. Examples he cited include "'This' is the place for movies" and "'This' is a great channel."

http://www.suntimes.com/business/feder/1077828,federthis072808.article

It looks like some of the FCC commissioners will be coming to Denver (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6588375.html?industryid=23099) on Oct 16th for a public meeting on the transition. Get your questions ready!

Sorry if this has already been answered (i did do a quick search first and didn't find the answer) -- I currently have a small indoor Zenith Silver Sensor which I think is UHF only. When the switchover happens in Feb, will I need a combination UHF-VHF antenna due to some channels switching over to broadcast digital on their current analog-VHF channels?

Ultimately, I'd like to install an antenna in my attic. What kind of antenna should I get to ensure it would still work when the switchover occurs in Feb? Any recommendations on brands and such? There's a lot of recommendations for the Channel Master 4228, but I don't know if that would be too big to fit in an attic, and also it looks to be a UHF only antenna. We have a one story house in Stapleton.

Thanks in advance!

When the switchover happens in Feb, will I need a combination UHF-VHF antenna...

Yes. Digital channels 7, 9 and 12 will return to VHF in February.

Ultimately, I'd like to install an antenna in my attic.

Attic antennas do have their charms. They're better looking, obviously. Attic setups also don't need grounding, which is absolutely necessary outside given the number of thunderstorms we get. But there are drawbacks: Tile roofs, stucco siding, foil-lined insulation and steel ductwork are some examples of building components that obstruct the signals and kill reception.

I've read posts from people who have mounted Silver Sensors in their attics with good results. So if the attic seems OK for reception, I recommend combining the Silver Sensor with a VHF-high band antenna using a UVSJ band combiner. UVSJs are similar to standard splitters, but they work in reverse and lose much less of the signal, while cost is about the same. For the VHF antenna, the inexpensive AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 should work well at your distance. Both of these items are available online; I know of no one who sells them locally.

If Silver Sensor doesn't work in the attic, then you can switch it out easily and inexpensively for a better UHF antenna. The Channel Master 4221 (the 4228's smaller, 4-bay sibling), and even the Radio Shack U-75R (which is available in their local stores), would be good choices.

I thought this antenna looked interesting for the Denver area after the changeover in February. Handles both UHF and VHF high band.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HBU22&xzoom=Large#xview

I thought this antenna looked interesting for the Denver area after the changeover in February. Handles both UHF and VHF high band...

The HBU-22 is OK when mounted outside within perhaps 30 miles of the transmitters and with line of sight... but the distance leaves Castle Rock out. Check out the Winegard HD-7696 instead. Good company to deal with, though.

Sorry if this has already been answered (i did do a quick search first and didn't find the answer) -- I currently have a small indoor Zenith Silver Sensor which I think is UHF only. When the switchover happens in Feb, will I need a combination UHF-VHF antenna due to some channels switching over to broadcast digital on their current analog-VHF channels?

Ultimately, I'd like to install an antenna in my attic. What kind of antenna should I get to ensure it would still work when the switchover occurs in Feb? Any recommendations on brands and such? There's a lot of recommendations for the Channel Master 4228, but I don't know if that would be too big to fit in an attic, and also it looks to be a UHF only antenna. We have a one story house in Stapleton.

Thanks in advance!

How is your reception of analog signals from 6, 7 and 9 now? The antenna does not care if the signals are analog or digital.

We are in Longmont, so we need our antenna system in our attic.

Attic antennas do have their charms. They're better looking, obviously. Attic setups also don't need grounding, which is absolutely necessary outside given the number of thunderstorms we get. But there are drawbacks: Tile roofs, stucco siding, foil-lined insulation and steel ductwork are some examples of building components that obstruct the signals and kill reception.


Let's not forget metal roofs. :D (my indoor antenna took a serious hit in reception when I had my cedar shakes replaced with a metal roof).


I've read posts from people who have mounted Silver Sensors in their attics with good results. So if the attic seems OK for reception, I recommend combining the Silver Sensor with a VHF-high band antenna using a UVSJ band combiner. UVSJs are similar to standard splitters, but they work in reverse and lose much less of the signal, while cost is about the same. For the VHF antenna, the inexpensive AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 should work well at your distance. Both of these items are available online; I know of no one who sells them locally.


Another option, for those who are way out in the fringe and don't care about KBDI, might be a single channel Yagi. Wade makes both 5 element and 10 element single channel Yagi's. Note that if you bought one for VHF channel 8 it would still have higher gain for Channel 7 and Channel 9 than just about any other wider band Yagi available. See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/WadeSCY.html for details. Even if you're not out in the fringe, the smaller size of the 5 element single channel Yagi's might make it appealing for some applications.

I plan to go that route (single channel Yagi) if my CM 4228 doesn't do a good enough job of pulling in Channels 7 and 9 after the transition (although the CM4228 is doing a great job of pulling in the analog transmission on those channels right now, so I don't think I'll have a problem, but a whole bunch of variables change when switching from analog to digital in february).

There's a lot of recommendations for the Channel Master 4228, but I don't know if that would be too big to fit in an attic, and also it looks to be a UHF only antenna. We have a one story house in Stapleton.
I have a CM4228 in my attic. In order to get it up through the access hole I had to take off the mesh screens and then re-attach them once I had pulled the rest of the antenna up. As someone else mentioned, you could always try the CM4221 which is a little brother to the CM4228; it's probably all you would need from Stapleton.

And the CM4228 does have pretty good high-band VHF reception, as someone else mentioned.

Thanks everyone for all of the great responses! Here's answers to some of the questions:

But there are drawbacks: Tile roofs, stucco siding, foil-lined insulation and steel ductwork are some examples of building components that obstruct the signals and kill reception.
Unfortunately, our house has a tile roof, stucco siding and steel ductwork. I don't know about foil-lined insulation. Good idea about trying the Silver Sensor in the attic -- we'll give it a try.

How is your reception of analog signals from 6, 7 and 9 now?
Actually, better than I thought. Channel 9 comes in pretty good - about the same quality as 31. Channels 7, 6, 4 and 2 all come in, though it gets progressively worse the lower the channel number. I didn't realize that a UHF antenna can pick up VHF signals.

Thanks everyone for all of the great responses! Here's answers to some of the questions:


Unfortunately, our house has a tile roof, stucco siding and steel ductwork. I don't know about foil-lined insulation. Good idea about trying the Silver Sensor in the attic -- we'll give it a try.


Actually, better than I thought. Channel 9 comes in pretty good - about the same quality as 31. Channels 7, 6, 4 and 2 all come in, though it gets progressively worse the lower the channel number. I didn't realize that a UHF antenna can pick up VHF signals.

It sounds like your antenna "ain't broke" and you can try to resist the urge to do anything about it.

Attic antennas do have their charms. They're better looking, obviously. Attic setups also don't need grounding, which is absolutely necessary outside given the number of thunderstorms we get.

Note that the reason for the grounding of the exterior antenna is NOT lightening. It is a bleed off of the charge that develops on the antenna due to the wind and the particles in the air that blow by it. Static discharge. In our dry climate and prevalent winds, this is a BIG issue. There is no other place to discharge this build-up but out the ground lead (as required by code). Otherwise your equipment gets the jolt.

In fact, If you have an attic antenna and a whole house fan, I would recommend grounding the system for the same reason (even though it is not required by code).

We are in Longmont, so we need our antenna system in our attic.

Where is it a requirement in Longmont to place your antenna in the attic??? Any (perceived) regulation has been trumped by federal law a long time ago.

BTW, due to WAF, I have a CM4228 in my attic (grounded) in Erie, pointing at the gable wall (no shingles, no metal sheathing) and then line-of-sight to LOM. Only a ~2dB loss verses outside. All LOM signals from the new antenna register on my TiVo Series 3 in the upper 90's. I also get 12-* (90's) and 6-* (70's) without issue.

# Matt

I randomly checked KBDI last night and received 38.1,2,3 for the first time ever ! (in Louisville with indoor antenna pointing SSW through the wall in 3rd floor condo).
The signal was weak (25-30) on my DigitalStream3150+, but it came in with only an occasional dropout when the anteanna was pointed just right, and it's still there this morning.

Not sure if KBDI changed something, or if I had just never done a thorough enough job of checking before. Anybody else notice any change?

Unfortunately, our house has a tile roof, stucco siding and steel ductwork. I don't know about foil-lined insulation. Good idea about trying the Silver Sensor in the attic -- we'll give it a try.

I suspected that, this being Stapleton. An attic installation will be sketchy unless you happen to have a window or gable vent that faces toward the west.

Channel 9 comes in pretty good... Channels 7, 6, 4 and 2 all come in, though it gets progressively worse the lower the channel number. I didn't realize that a UHF antenna can pick up VHF signals.

They *can* pick up VHF analog. So does my UHF 4-bay, right down to channel 2. Problem is, digital signals are a bit "pickier" than analog. I suspect channels 7, 9 and 12 will be vulnerable to image freezes and dropouts when received with most UHF antennas (the 4228 excepted) after those stations move back down to VHF on Feb. 18.

Note that the reason for the grounding of the exterior antenna is NOT lightening. It is a bleed off of the charge that develops on the antenna due to the wind and the particles in the air that blow by it. Static discharge. In our dry climate and prevalent winds, this is a BIG issue. There is no other place to discharge this build-up but out the ground lead (as required by code). Otherwise your equipment gets the jolt. In fact, If you have an attic antenna and a whole house fan, I would recommend grounding the system for the same reason (even though it is not required by code).

So true, it bears repeating! I gave the condensed version for brevity's sake. Equipment can get fried even if there's no lightning anywhere nearby. We lost a garage-door opener several years ago when static discharge destroyed its logic board during an evening when there was distant thunder, but it was barely audible.

Thanks everyone for all of the great responses! Here's answers to some of the questions:


Unfortunately, our house has a tile roof, stucco siding and steel ductwork. I don't know about foil-lined insulation. Good idea about trying the Silver Sensor in the attic -- we'll give it a try.


Actually, better than I thought. Channel 9 comes in pretty good - about the same quality as 31. Channels 7, 6, 4 and 2 all come in, though it gets progressively worse the lower the channel number. I didn't realize that a UHF antenna can pick up VHF signals.

It depends on the tile. I've been using attic antennas for almost 5 years and I have a light-weight cement tile roof. I find I do better through the roof than through the walls as the aluminum foil insulation backing is very disruptive. Steel ductwork is really only a problem is it is horizontal ductwork. Vertical ductwork won't interfere unless it is right in your pointing azimuth.

I currently use two attic antennas for LOM signals (their combined coax run output is grounded). I strip an unamplified VHF signal off of a generic VHF/UHF combo antenna (less than 5' long) and combine it with an amplified UHF signal from a Winegard PR-9018 Yagi antenna. The UHF part of the combo is pretty weak, even amplified, so the Winegard provides much better reception. Come transition, I'll probably replace the combo antenna with a specialized high-VHF antenna and combine its signal with the Winegard.

...
We are in Longmont, so we need our antenna system in our attic.

...

Where is it a requirement in Longmont to place your antenna in the attic??? Any (perceived) regulation has been trumped by federal law a long time ago.

...

# Matt

Our reception needs the antenna we happen to have in our attic (where we prefer it) We have a Terk TV55 and a DB8 mounted on a plastic shaft. We can get the Denver digital stations and KBDI-DTV. Alas we cannot get KRMA-DTV , yet, but at least we can get KRMA-TV.

The original poster is in Stapleton and seems to do OK with a completely indoor antenna.

Is it just my wife and I or is the constantly changing/floating blue maze behind the speaker's platform at the DNC convention just the most eye irritating background on an HDTV? After watching for a short while I find I get eye strain. Whoever came up with that background apparently didn't test out the product by viewing it on an HDTV. In SD, like on FoxNews or MS/NBC via E*, it is much less distracting and irritating.

BTW, I changed my Dish Network setup this week to make my OTA locals the priority channels for locals and make my Dish provided HD locals (the 4 of them) only appear under their 4 digit 63XX channel numbers. I've done this because I found that when I setup the Dish HD locals to show up at 4-00, 7-00, 9-00, and 31-00, if I was watching the OTA local (e.g., 009-01) and the satellite local lost signal, my Dish ViP211 receiver would show a lost signal. I couldn't get back to my OTA local until the Dish local re-established signal. Very annoying, given that the Dish locals from transponder 2 on their 129 satellite have frequent dropouts. Basically, now I'm paying for Dish locals just to get the EPG information on my OTA locals. Bummer!

I randomly checked KBDI last night and received 38.1,2,3 for the first time ever ! (in Louisville with indoor antenna pointing SSW through the wall in 3rd floor condo).

Not a peep from KBDI-DT for me, per usual, but I think I'm physically shadowed from Squaw.

Not sure why, but KBDI-DT is actually my strongest DTV signal with readings of 96 to 97 on my Dish ViP211 receiver, which gets a feed that has been first split in two, then split in four. KBDI-DT is at a 234 degree magnetic azimuth from me and my antenna is pointed at LOM (211 degree azimuth). I think that if one can't receive KBDI-DT, then they have some major geological obstacles blocking the signal.

Not sure why, but KBDI-DT is actually my strongest DTV signal with readings of 96 to 97 on my Dish ViP211 receiver, which gets a feed that has been first split in two, then split in four. KBDI-DT is at a 234 degree magnetic azimuth from me and my antenna is pointed at LOM (211 degree azimuth). I think that if one can't receive KBDI-DT, then they have some major geological obstacles blocking the signal.
Some kind soul in this group ran a check for me a while back and reported that my LOS to Squaw Mountain is shadowed by Mount Tom.
kucharsk is only a few blocks from me.

Some kind soul in this group ran a check for me a while back and reported that my LOS to Squaw Mountain is shadowed by Mount Tom.
kucharsk is only a few blocks from me.
I must be in the same shadow.

Not sure why, but KBDI-DT is actually my strongest DTV signal with readings of 96 to 97 on my Dish ViP211 receiver, which gets a feed that has been first split in two, then split in four. KBDI-DT is at a 234 degree magnetic azimuth from me and my antenna is pointed at LOM (211 degree azimuth). I think that if one can't receive KBDI-DT, then they have some major geological obstacles blocking the signal.

I think I recall that you are near 72nd & Simms. If so, it looks like you have a very direct LOS from KDBI on Squaw Mt. and 22.5 miles distance. Profile attached.

OT: Anyone going to the CEDIA Expo next week in Denver?

I think I recall that you are near 72nd & Simms. If so, it looks like you have a very direct LOS from KDBI on Squaw Mt. and 22.5 miles distance. Profile attached.

I'm at coordinates +39.821716,-105.131803, which is roughly 68th just west of Simms. Your plot is probably pretty close. It looks like I actually have a clearer path to Squaw Mt. than I do to LOM (which I have a plot for), despite the much greater distance. I think that KBDI-DT's ERP, antenna type, and antenna orientation also are having a positive affect on my reception. I'd probably max out my Dish ViP211's signal meter if I actually pointed my antenna to their azimuth.

I'm at coordinates +39.821716,-105.131803, which is roughly 68th just west of Simms. Your plot is probably pretty close. It looks like I actually have a clearer path to Squaw Mt. than I do to LOM (which I have a plot for), despite the much greater distance. I think that KBDI-DT's ERP, antenna type, and antenna orientation also are having a positive affect on my reception. I'd probably max out my Dish ViP211's signal meter if I actually pointed my antenna to their azimuth.

Those coordinates almost bring the north edge of North Table Mountain into play, but I think you are still LOS to the KDBI antenna since it is several hundred feet above ground level which these plots show. Here is a new plot. the bump at the 17 mile mark is the very north edge of NTM.

OT: Anyone going to the CEDIA Expo next week in Denver?

Yeah, I think I am going Thursday.

It's not open to the public, is it?

I need to look up the details for the AVS Forum party - that was a good time last year.

It's like $30 or $35 to go to the expo.

The FCC requires notification if a station is off for more than 30 days.

- Trip

So, does anyone know when KQCK-DT first went off the air? I noticed it was gone on August 8th, but I hadn't checked in a while before that, so it may have been a week or more before 8/8 that it first went off the air.

I'm just wondering, because I haven't seen anything regarding KQCK-DT's status on the fcc website, and if they haven't already been off the air for 30 days, they are within a week of doing so.

I don't remember the exact date. But it was late July when I noticed.

It's like $30 or $35 to go to the expo.

Is it really that pricey? I planned to spend a couple of hours on the floor, but if individual admission is that high, I may reconsider.

So, does anyone know when KQCK-DT first went off the air?

My log indicates dead air for KQCK-DT on 6 August 2008, with no subsequent appearances at the usual time-of-day that I checked (between 5 and 6 PM nightly). It's possible that the were gone before then, though, because I had been out of town for several days before then.


Jim McCauley

To use the two antennas with CM7777 set up for separate inputs, you do need to deal with the UHF signal coming off of the combo antenna and the problems it can cause...

... Take the separate UHF and VHF amplified signal outputs from the CM7777 and run them into a hybrid splitter/combiner (I use the gold ones from Rat Shack with no problems)...
I am planning to use a "two antennas w/ CM7777" setup and hence read with great interest your instructions for doing this, but I lost you on the last quoted paragraph above:

- "separate UHF and VHF amplified signal outputs from the CM7777": my understanding is that the CM7777 has only one output

- "and run them into a hybrid splitter/combiner": what does this do -- to combine two signals or to separate the combined signals?

TIA.

For those who can actually get 6-1, they haven't showed the national PBS feed the last few days. I'm gettinig 6-0 instead. Wonder if it is a technical problem or they are just messing around. :confused:

For those who can actually get 6-1, they haven't showed the national PBS feed the last few days. I'm gettinig 6-0 instead.

They've done a lot more simulcasting of the 6-0 analog broadcast on 6-1 since the conventions started. Wondered whether this was for coverage of the conventions, or if it's permanent. Will be interesting to see what they do on Monday night for this reason.

FWIW, I think they were supposed to be doing the simulcast all along, rather than blending Create and PBS|HD on 6-1, under the FCC transition regs. Read something about that being a requirement in the local thread for another market.

I think PBS stations were exempted from the simulcast requirement, as there were a number of stations not doing so though many have begun to do a simulcast (WMVS/WMVT, WNET, WHYY are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head). I assume the FCC figured that PBS stations would have trouble affording the equipment to do so if they wanted to do HD.

- Trip

It's nice that Channel 31 is showing the DEnver-Oakland football game for those who can't get ESPN bou how about us who would like to see "Prison Break" on the FOX Network?

Prison Break is on my TiVo's To Do List on Tuesday at 6pm.

Thanks, I'll be watching the Broncos beat the Raiders but I needed to know when to record "Prison Break"
I appreciate your quick reply.

I am planning to use a "two antennas w/ CM7777" setup and hence read with great interest your instructions for doing this, but I lost you on the last quoted paragraph above:

- "separate UHF and VHF amplified signal outputs from the CM7777": my understanding is that the CM7777 has only one output

- "and run them into a hybrid splitter/combiner": what does this do -- to combine two signals or to separate the combined signals?

TIA.

You are correct, the CM7777 has only one output. I got carried away describing my setup where I don't amplify the VHF signal (current analog VHF signals in metro Denver are very strong; may have a lot of ghosts, but they are very strong) so the VHF signal doesn't go to the CM7777. In that case, my case, the signals need to be combined (i.e., the amplified UHF signal from the CM7777 and the un-amplified and UHF-stripped VHF signal) and the Rat Shack hybrid combiner works well for that.

If you intend to amplify both UHF and VHF signals, then the CM7777 should be set for separate inputs and the output will be a nicely combined UHF/VHF signal. However, the key point here is having a clean UHF signal and a clean VHF signal going into the separate inputs of the CM7777. While I've been told by CM that the CM7777 doesn't amplify a UHF signal to the VHF input or a VHF signal to the UHF input, my experience is that the CM7777 doesn't totally filter out those unwanted duplicate signals. Thus, when the signals are combined in the CM7777, you may have out-of-phase versions of the same signal coming in through both inputs.

If your UHF antenna is strictly a UHF Yagi and your VHF antenna is strictly a VHF dipole, there is little of the other band that either can pick up, so it is generally safe to just feed them both into the separate CM7777 inputs and use the combined output signal. Nothing else is needed.

However, if one of your antennas is a VHF/UHF combo or even a large bay like the CM4228, you will be receiving inputs from both bands. In this case, it is best to strip out the unwanted second band signal before it goes to the CM7777. I use a Winegard CS-7750, which was relatively expensive and now seems to be unavailable. I understand the the Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner is a readily available and cheaper alternative.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ

The beauty of the specialized Separator Combiners like the Winegard or the Pico Macom is that there is very little insertion loss and they reduces harmonics and out of band interference for improved amplifier performance. So these devices can take a mixed UHF/VHF signal and output clean, separate signals for amplification or just downstream combining.

I hope the foregoing helps clarify what I was trying to say last May and doesn't just make it all as "clear as mud."

Is anyone else not getting the audio on the Broncos game tonight? All other channels are fine for me, but when I switch to Fox the audio isn't there.

I am getting audio just fine via 31-1 OTA. I almost wish I wasn't, the announcers kind of suck. :(

I guess I need to move to Castle Rock...here in Centennial it sux!! Can't hear anything.
Anybody got Fox's number?

Tim

I am getting audio just fine via 31-1 OTA. I almost wish I wasn't, the announcers kind of suck. :(

I definitely agree. The announcers are so bad, it is hard to watch the game.

Pretty weird! I called and fox said they have had about 6 calls...only a few of us not getting good audio OTA? Hows that work?

Tim

Audio is fine here too. Very strange. What tuner are you using?

Wow, Fox31 is absolutely butchering the ESPN feed. Looks like lipsync is a good second off except when they go to the local spots, and the are upcutting and dumping spots like mad. The 30 seconds of color bars was a nice touch too. Heads will roll!

There was no audio for for me for the entire 4th quarter. I turned the radio on but the play by play was about six seconds ahead of the video.

Nice job, Fox!

The entire game here was just fine with audio.(OTA)

The only thing I didn't like & thought was strange is how dark it was. I checked comcast & it was the same so it was fox & how they had the cameras set.

I watched entire game on ESPN and there were no problems at all. It must have been Channel 31 causing the problems.

I had audio sync problems the whole game. It was only an issue when they showed the announcers talking.

Audio sync was also a problem at my location on Fox for the game and also the pre-game show. About 1 - 2 sec delay. Audio sync was fine on the analog side.

I watched the game on ESPN-HD without any problems. I didn't think the PQ was too dark either. I did switch over to Fox31 OTA HD a couple of times to check the quality of the re-broadcast and didn't note anything except that Fox31 was several seconds behind the ESPN-HD broadcast via Dish. Ironic in that it was probably the first time that a DBS broadcast was actually ahead of an OTA broadcast. Makes me think that Fox31 was not getting their feed from the ESPN source, but rather was re-broadcasting what they were receiving from DBS or cable. Don't know, don't care. Just an observation.

Wow, Fox31 is absolutely butchering the ESPN feed. Looks like lipsync is a good second off except when they go to the local spots, and the are upcutting and dumping spots like mad. The 30 seconds of color bars was a nice touch too. Heads will roll!

We're in Stapleton using OTA and we also had the lip sync issues as well as the 30 seconds of the color bars.

Kind of a surprise that FOX 31 had the game since ESPN is owned by ABC!

So when can we get some guide info for the new ION channel , for all 4 channels? I still unable to get it on my DVR. Should I just wait, or is there someone we can whine to? I did send an email to titantv, but nothing yet.