CBS, Fox, NBC, Telemundo and ABC have all agreed to keep both analog and digital signals airing for their owned and operated stations through the new June 12 date set for the DTV transition.

So this means KCNC is definitely staying analog, and KUSA and KTVD probably will.

Not necessarily; please note "owned and operated stations." Because FCC rules limit how many stations a national network may own outright, relatively few affiliates are "O&Os." The great majority are owned by concerns other than the networks. Their owners may do what they wish regardless of what their networks think about it. Stations are responsible first to their owners and to the FCC, with the network bringing up the rear at a poor third. Networks have no legal means by which to force non-O&Os to toe the line.

KCNC is the only (English-language) network O&O in the Denver market, so you are probably correct about CBS4. OTOH, ABC, NBC and Fox affiliates KMGH, KUSA and KDVR are not O&Os. Ditto KRMA and KBDI: PBS has no O&Os. All PBS affiliates are locally owned. KTVD, like KUSA, is owned by Gannett, which has nothing to do with Fox parent MyNet.

KCNC is the only (English-language) network O&O in the Denver market, so you are probably correct about CBS4. OTOH, ABC, NBC and Fox affiliates KMGH, KUSA and KDVR are not O&Os. Ditto KRMA and KBDI: PBS has no O&Os. All PBS affiliates are locally owned. KTVD, like KUSA, is owned by Gannett, which has nothing to do with Fox parent MyNet.

You didn't include this line from the quoted piece:

He also said most of the stations owned by Hearst-Argyle and Gannett will be airing dual signals. …

So KCNC has been committed by its owner, CBS, to keep transmitting analog.

As KUSA and KTVD are owned by Gannett, they too will likely continue to transmit analog.

As I mentioned, if KUSA and KCNC continue to broadcast in analog, I find it highly doubtful that KMGH would want to cede analog viewers to their competition and thus will also likely keep broadcasting in analog until June.

KRMA isn't owned and operated but an earlier post states that the "stimulus" package includes money for PBS stations to continue to broadcast in analog until June as well.

So if the earlier announcement holds, the only station that has said they would stick to the Feb. 17 date is KWGN, and obviously that too may change.

I don't believe KDVR has committed one way or the other yet.

By the way, KDVR changed the conversion date on their website but still refer to themselves as "channel 8" in the info they obviously cut-and-pasted from some other TV station's site:

Q. Will I need to do anything special on June 12, 2009 to continue to view FOX31 KDVR?

A. On June 12, 2009 you will need to perform a simple "rescan" of the channels on your digital television and/or digital to analog converter box to automatically reprogram FOX31 KDVR to continue to view us. The Federal Communications Commission is requiring FOX31 KDVR to change our current digital configuration back to channel 8 on June 12, 2009. We will NOT be changing channel numbers though. We will always be known as "channel 8." See your digital television or digital to analog converter box manual on how to "rescan" your channels.

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-dtv-delay-020409,0,1756474.story

By the way, KDVR changed the conversion date on their website but still refer to themselves as "channel 8" in the info they obviously cut-and-pasted from some other TV station's site:

Since KDVR has already reacted by changing their web site before the President signs the bill, I'd say that it is a safe bet that they don't plan to do anything different from their current operation until 6/12/09.

This is all very depressing. Another 4 months and then they will probably pull the rug out from under us again. Meanwhile, none of us will know how well the full power, final antenna configurations will be received by our current OTA setups, particularly VHF DTV channels 7 and 9.

Kenavs quoting Foxeng quoting the Federal Code-mastication Commission:

[The FCC] may require affected stations to submit additional information to explain and justify how their early termination advances the public interest.

It advances the public interest by getting people off their butts.

Ben Franklin once said something like: "Nothing focuses the mind so wonderfully as the prospect of hanging."

Or in this case, no tunable TV programming...


Jim McCauley

I am too lazy to do my taxes. i think congress should delay April 15 till August.

I am too lazy to do my taxes. i think congress should delay April 15 till August.Plus, they ran out of free coupons for TurboTax.

Plus, they ran out of free coupons for TurboTax.

Question: Do I need a converter box to run TurboTax on my 386? :D

I am too lazy to do my taxes. i think congress should delay April 15 till August.

That should be fine - the recent nominees for cabinet positions have shown that you can just pay them whenever, even years later, without any penalties or repercussions whatsoever! :D :D

Not like they really care, but the White House is accepting comments on the delay before Obama signs it:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

You only get about 500 characters, but that's enough to describe how incredibly stupid the delay is and to remind them at $20K/month for power alone, a four month delay is going to require most TV stations to fire one or two additonal people to pay for it. :(

KWGN has set their daylight savings transition date to 2/8 rather than 3/8. They probably won't flip the DST bit on Sunday, but most converter boxes will be off by an hour (when tuned to KWGN) between 2:00 AM on Sunday and midnight (if they don't flip the DST bit then the boxes will revert to the correct time on 2/9). This may also affect recording timers for programs on KWGN.

Not like they really care, but the White House is accepting comments on the delay before Obama signs it:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

You only get about 500 characters, but that's enough to describe how incredibly stupid the delay is and to remind them at $20K/month for power alone, a four month delay is going to require most TV stations to fire one or two additonal people to pay for it. :(

Living in Ft Collins, I really can't do my final prep until the stations transition. Here's the text I sent:

Veto this horrible piece of legislation! I have a digital box and am as ready as I can be for the transition. Unfortunately, until the analog signals in my area are turned off and the digital stations can move to their final frequencies and power levels, I can't go digital. As a responsible citizen, I'm getting tired of waiting on and paying the price for my slacker peers to get their act together. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Thanks.

-Glen

Not like they really care, but the White House is accepting comments on the delay before Obama signs it:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

You only get about 500 characters, but that's enough to describe how incredibly stupid the delay is and to remind them at $20K/month for power alone, a four month delay is going to require most TV stations to fire one or two additonal people to pay for it. :(

thanks for the link. I left a comment as well. I mentioned that additional layoffs by these broadcaster because of the additional costs to run two transmitters kinda goes against what the Pres is trying to do to stop layoffs. :cool:

Living in Ft Collins, I really can't do my final prep until the stations transition. Here's the text I sent:

Veto this horrible piece of legislation! I have a digital box and am as ready as I can be for the transition. Unfortunately, until the analog signals in my area are turned off and the digital stations can move to their final frequencies and power levels, I can't go digital. As a responsible citizen, I'm getting tired of waiting on and paying the price for my slacker peers to get their act together. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Thanks.

-Glen

You know our elected offical who replaced Marylin has a office in Old Town: http://betsymarkey.house.gov/

You know our elected offical who replaced Marylin has a office in Old Town: http://betsymarkey.house.gov/

I did send her an email a day before the vote.

That's pretty cool that she has an office in the Fort. I met her at a friend's house a few months before the election. Nice woman but given my libertarian streak, we didn't agree on a whole lot. Still, I hope she can put her experience as a small business owner to some good use in DC.

I to left a comment noting the probably job losses a delay will cause and noting that some people are never ready as evidenced every April 15th.

However, if they really cared what we thought, they would have solicited comments before the Obama team told Congress to enact a DTV delay bill. I can just see Obama's chief of staff telling him that the write-ins are running a thousand to one against a delay and the President replying that he won the election so he gets to do what he wants to do.

Don't you just love the Comcast OTA commercials advertising in SD that they have more HD?

I've noticed that the 14.2 (KTFD) signal is really messed up. I get it at a high level, but it seems to jump between two settings, neither of which lasts long enough to determine anything on the screen. I see the same things on two televisions, each of which has a different antenna.

I've also noticed that I now get the audio only channel 6.5 from KRMA.

Confirmation, from the KWGN web site:

On February 17 KWGN-TV, Denver, Colorado, intends to cease analog broadcasting; this will occur prior to the new nationwide DTV transition date of June 12, 2009.

http://www.kwgn.com/pages/dtv_transition/

Good for KWGN.

Yes just watched the story on kwgn. They said there sister station kdvr was going to

Posted by MikeBiker:
I've noticed that the 14.2 (KTFD) signal is really messed up. I get it at a high level, but it seems to jump between two settings, neither of which lasts long enough to determine anything on the screen. I see the same things on two televisions, each of which has a different antenna.
I've noticed the same thing. A few days ago I was channel surfing and KTFD's signal caused one of my E* receivers to freeze. I had to unplug and reboot it, a soft reboot didn't work.

Confirmation, from the KWGN web site:

Excellent!

I think they're just tired of shooting the "Only XX days left until the digital transition" spots.

Then to summarize:

KWGN and KDVR will end analog on February 17.

KCNC and KRMA will dual-illuminate until June.

It's almost certain thanks to pronouncements by Gannett that KUSA and KTVD will also dual-illuminate until June.

We don't know about KMGH, but I can't see them risking giving up analog viewers to KCNC and KUSA halfway through the February ratings book.

The only question in my mind is whether KBDI will waste money repairing their analog transmitter at this point; it doesn't seem to make sense, but the taxpayers will be picking up the operations tab for PBS stations to dual-illuminate until June so it could go either way.

KWHD and KPXC are anyone's guess.

Posted by kucharsk:
I suspect that means we know what's going to happen:

KWGN and KDVR will go on around February 17.

KCNC, KUSA and KRMA will dual illuminate until June.

We don't know about KMGH, but I can't see them risking giving up analog viewers to KCNC and KUSA halfway through the February ratings book.
I'll add my 2 cents:
Agree on KWGN and KDVR.

KCNC will definitely dual illuminate (I like that term!) since they are an O&O.

KRMA will also dual illuminate because they don't really have choices right now.

KUSA will probably dual illuminate because Gannett made a half hearted commitment to do so. Will KTVD follow suit? Probably. I guess that means more 1 day furloughs to cover the Xcel bill. Bob Kendrick and Nick Carter are gone. Who's next?

KMGH probably wants to go but has a problem due to the new requirement that they secure an STA to move digital to channel 7. May not be a problem since the analog is on channel 7 (interference concerns) but it is an extra step.

KBDI's situation is similar to KMGH's but they have the added concern of interference to KRDO on channel 13 if KRDO doesn't go on 2-17.

KWHD's analog was shut down in January. KPXC - who cares?

At this point, I really don't care anymore. I'm not having any difficulty with receiving any of the digital channels that I watch, even with rabbit ears. If these stations are, IMO, dumb enough to spend say $100K over 4 months to maintain an analog transmission to cover a few thousand people (and that number should diminish day by day as 6-12 nears) who couldn't get themselves ready for this, that's their problem, not mine. For all I care, the analogs can stay on the air until 2011. Then they can coordinate with Canada's digital transition.

There aren't any ratings sweeps in February. They were moved to (I believe) May because of 2-17. That's probably why the new date is 6-12, after the ratings sweeps.

The only question in my mind is whether KBDI will waste money repairing their analog transmitter at this point; it doesn't seem to make sense, but the taxpayers will be picking up the operations tab for PBS stations to dual-illuminate until June so it could go either way.

I think they have to fix their analog. Aren't they reusing the analog 12 gear to go digital on 13?

There aren't any ratings sweeps in February. They were moved to (I believe) May because of 2-17. That's probably why the new date is 6-12, after the ratings sweeps.

March. The May sweeps are unmoved.

- Trip

I really wish that KMGH would shut down analog and move to full power VHF. I need to know if I need to upgrade antennas to get digital VHF from Lookout.

KMGH will likely not lose much if they shut down on 2/17. It's under 5% that would be affected, and once some stations go dark those people will have enough of an incentive to get ready before March. Silencing analog also frees up commercial spots that currently go to announcing the transition. Also, the money saved with early shutoff will likely be much greater than what they might lose due to ratings (especially since any loss will be short-term).

All that being said, since 4 is staying and 9 is likely staying, KMGH might not want to be seen as the villain who screwed up all the procrastinators' miserable lives. We'll know for sure by Tuesday.

Posted by dvdmth:
Silencing analog also frees up commercial spots that currently go to announcing the transition.
I don't think so. I don't think stations that shut off analog are exempt from the PSA requirements.

I don't think so. I don't think stations that shut off analog are exempt from the PSA requirements.

But why would they show PSAs? No reason to tell analog viewers that tv will be all digital by 6/12 when they don't have any analog viewers to tell it to.

But why would they show PSAs? No reason to tell analog viewers that tv will be all digital by 6/12 when they don't have any analog viewers to tell it to.

That's what I thought too. Anyone here who watches KWHD 53? If they're still running those ads, then I stand corrected.

I believe the current requirement is to run PSA's through March 31. That's under the original rules with a 2-17-09 analog cutoff. They cover both analog and digital transmissions. With the cutoff extended to 6-12, the PSA rules will probably also be extended, to say 6-30?

I think it's really stupid to run PSA's if you've shut down analog. However, the FCC apparently doesn't think so.

I've noticed that the 14.2 (KTFD) signal is really messed up. I get it at a high level, but it seems to jump between two settings, neither of which lasts long enough to determine anything on the screen. I see the same things on two televisions, each of which has a different antenna.

I've also noticed that I now get the audio only channel 6.5 from KRMA.

KTFD-DT (15) is totally hosed. Yesterday it froze-up the OTA tuners on my Dish ViP211 and my LG LST4200a. I've since deleted it on both and won't mess with it again until I know they have their act back together.

Well, supposedly we will find out on Monday what KUSA and KMGH will do. My bet is that KMGH shuts off analog on 2/17/09 and declares themselves the leader in DTV in metro-Denver. They are a distant third to KCNC and KUSA, so what do they have to lose.

I've been going through various stations FCC "Correspondence Folders" to see if they filed any "Silent Notifications". I had to laugh at KLWY's reason for going silent:

WE FEEL THAT IT BEST SERVES THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND TO AVOID ANY CONFUSION THAT WE FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE DATE WE HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCING WHICH IS 2/17/2009

Short and to the point (and of course, most of us would agree with the sentiment), but I'm not sure that's going to cut it with the new guidelines. It was filed 1/29, so they have to refile again under the new guidelines, at least that is my current understanding of the currently confusing situation.

In fact, KLWY really can't just turn off analog, since they have only a very low power digital service right now. They need permission from the FCC to flashcut to their post transition digital service.

Short and to the point (and of course, most of us would agree with the sentiment), but I'm not sure that's going to cut it with the new guidelines. It was filed 1/29, so they have to refile again under the new guidelines, at least that is my current understanding of the currently confusing situation.

I'll say that's correct with as much confidence as I can manage given how amazingly confusing and complicated this has gotten.

- Trip

Can any value be put on a crawl my brother just saw on KMGH indicating their "intent" to terminate analog on 2/17? (I didn't see it myself.)

Can any value be put on a crawl my brother just saw on KMGH indicating their "intent" to terminate analog on 2/17? (I didn't see it myself.)

None
It has been that way for days. But the news still says they are reading the wording of the bill and consulting the FCC for guidance. Personally I think they are waiting to see which way the wind blows.

KDVR has an article (http://www.kdvr.com/sns-ap-tec-digital-tv-transition,0,4954465.story) on stations wanting to switch off analog on the 17th. Unfortunately, none of the Denver stations are mentioned.

None
It has been that way for days. But the news still says they are reading the wording of the bill and consulting the FCC for guidance. Personally I think they are waiting to see which way the wind blows.

That's what I figured. I wasn't sure though, as I haven't been paying that much attention.

Can any value be put on a crawl my brother just saw on KMGH indicating their "intent" to terminate analog on 2/17? (I didn't see it myself.)

I'm hopeful, although they are sending mixed messages. There was a crawl during This Week With George Stephanopoulos this morning that said, "On February 17, KMGH-TV, Denver, Colorado, intends to cease analog broadcasting." Which was followed by the usual information about needing a digital tuner or converter box.

Granted, this may be just to comply with FCC regulations, but it is encouraging nonetheless. However, I was watching the 5pm news, and they repeated the same non-commital statement they've been saying all week, so who knows.

I've been going through various stations FCC "Correspondence Folders" to see if they filed any "Silent Notifications". I had to laugh at KLWY's reason for going silent:

WE FEEL THAT IT BEST SERVES THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND TO AVOID ANY CONFUSION THAT WE FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE DATE WE HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCING WHICH IS 2/17/2009

Short and to the point (and of course, most of us would agree with the sentiment), but I'm not sure that's going to cut it with the new guidelines. It was filed 1/29, so they have to refile again under the new guidelines, at least that is my current understanding of the currently confusing situation.

In fact, KLWY really can't just turn off analog, since they have only a very low power digital service right now. They need permission from the FCC to flashcut to their post transition digital service.

This is good news. KLWY 27-1 is the station that I'm most interested in post transition. I picked up a DTVpal+ for my one analog tv today. It couldn't lock on any major channel with rabbit ears, gonna try it on the main antenna later.

This is good news. KLWY 27-1 is the station that I'm most interested in post transition. I picked up a DTVpal+ for my one analog tv today. It couldn't lock on any major channel with rabbit ears, gonna try it on the main antenna later.

I'm also interested in KLWY post transition. The problem is that they need approval from the FCC to go to their post transition digital service before 6/12. The new law looks like it has a fairly easy process to turn off analog, but in that case you have to stay with your current pre-transition digital service. For stations whose pre-transition digital service was the same as their post-transition digital service this is not a problem. But for stations like KMGH, KUSA and KLWY, who were planning to flash cut, they have another hoop to jump through, because their pre-transition digital service is fairly low power (in KLWY's case it is very low power). They need to apply for a STA to transition to their approved post-transition digital service.

Now, since the above stations are transitioning to the same RF channel that their analog service is on, they should easily be able to make the case that they won't interfere with another stations analog service; but still, it is an additional step, and given that the FCC probably will have their hands full reviewing analog termination notifications, they are not likely to be approving STA's before 2/17. However, this is all conjecture on my part, and it is certainly not clear what the FCC is going to allow, and what process they will follow in the next 10 days.

If KLWY is able to go to their post-transition digital service on RF27 then I think there is a reasonable chance that we will be able to receive it in Northern Colorado, but you may need a good antenna pointed towards Cheyenne; although it is possible that you may be able to get it off the back of your antenna (I get KGWN that way right now, although not without some dropouts now and then).

OK, once again, with the crawls:

Until Obama signs the legislation into law, FCC regulations require that stations run a crawl stating that analog transmissions will be ending on February 17, 2009.

Even if stations have decided that they are delaying until June, until the law is signed if they ran a crawl stating they were going to terminate in June they would be in violation of FCC regulations.

So do not put any faith in a crawl message, because at present they cannot run a crawl with anything other than the February 17 date.

OK, once again, with the crawls:

Until Obama signs the legislation into law, FCC regulations require that stations run a crawl stating that analog transmissions will be ending on February 17, 2009.

Even if stations have decided that they are delaying until June, until the law is signed if they ran a crawl stating they were going to terminate in June they would be in violation of FCC regulations.

So do not put any faith in a crawl message, because at present they cannot run a crawl with anything other than the February 17 date.

I'm not 100% sure that's the case since the FCC has already put new rules in place in advance of the signing. However, it is true that crawls cannot be trusted at this time unless they explicitly refer to the passage of the delay act (e.g. "Despite the change to the dealine, we will stick with our original plan").

What got my brother's attention with KMGH's crawl was the presence of the word "intends" in the message, from which one can infer the existence of an alternative. The fact, however, that this particular message dates back to before the new FCC rules pretty much nullifies any real meaning, especially since they report that they have yet to decide officially what to do.

OK, once again, with the crawls:

Until Obama signs the legislation into law, FCC regulations require that stations run a crawl stating that analog transmissions will be ending on February 17, 2009.

Even if stations have decided that they are delaying until June, until the law is signed if they ran a crawl stating they were going to terminate in June they would be in violation of FCC regulations.

So do not put any faith in a crawl message, because at present they cannot run a crawl with anything other than the February 17 date.

Isn't it odd that the stations have to continue to comply with the existing law and ignore the pending law, while the FCC seems to be operating on the assumption that the President will sign the pending law and is enforcing rules based on that assumption. The Government has turned this into one big cluster ____.

So do not put any faith in a crawl message, because at present they cannot run a crawl with anything other than the February 17 date.

Yes, I don't usually put much stock in these crawlers. However, the weird thing is that KMGH just started showing these in the past 24 hours or so. Unless there is some requirement by the FCC to run DTV crawlers starting today, the timing just seems a little odd.

Yes, I don't usually put much stock in these crawlers. However, the weird thing is that KMGH just started showing these in the past 24 hours or so. Unless there is some requirement by the FCC to run DTV crawlers starting today, the timing just seems a little odd.

The crawls with the word "intends" actually started on Feb 05 during LOST see post 5219

KCNC is the only digital signal from LOM that we cannot get a lock on. We are in North Erie, near I-25 and Hwy 52. Several months ago, KCNC was in the 90's and solid lock all of the time.
I have sent an email to KCNC describing the problem, but they have not responded.

There are many entries in this forum back a few months ago, about the signal problems with KCNC near Longmont/Erie. What is the latest?

Can anyone give me an update on what KCNC is doing?

We have a solid lock on the following channels from here with LOS no obstructions to LOM:
2-1, 6-1,2,3, 7-1, 9-1,2, 12-1,2,3, 20-1, 31-1

Thinking of purchasing a DB8 antenna as a suppliment to the large combination antenna in the attic, with a combiner. But, this is a single channel problem. They must be aware of complaints about the reception up here!

Let the confusion begin!

Just last night, I saw an ad on one station that mentioned "Did you hear the DTV transition has been delayed until June 12, 2009..." (did anyone else see that, I think it was either on channel 4 or 7). Then about 1/2 hr later, on Channel 2, I saw an ad saying "The DTV tranisition is only 9 days away!"

No, that won't confuse anybody...

I'm really not excited about SOME of the stations being only digital while others are digital and analog, because my wife does have some "ease of use" issues with using an STB for digital (if everyone was digital, she wouldn't have much of a choice but to figure it out), especially as it relates to being able to record (since we are OTA only, I haven't found a good DVR solution).

If KLWY is able to go to their post-transition digital service on RF27 then I think there is a reasonable chance that we will be able to receive it in Northern Colorado, but you may need a good antenna pointed towards Cheyenne; although it is possible that you may be able to get it off the back of your antenna (I get KGWN that way right now, although not without some dropouts now and then).

I don't think I will be able to get it off the back of my main antenna because my neighbor's house is in the way. I do have a separate combo antenna which I will dedicate for 27-1 and 5-1 that I can put in the back yard with los to Cheyenne. Hoping I don't need an amp for this antenna, but will bite the bullet if it pulls in 27-1. I get a very watchable picture on 27-0 now.

The dtvpal+ did a very good job with stations that are off angle, like 11-1 and 59-1, much better than my panny plasma. It also did better on KBDI. It found KRMA on 18-1 and mapped to 6-1, 6-2, 6-3 and 6-5. When it got to 24-1 it mapped to 70-1, 70-2,70-3 and 70-5 then proceeded to erase the 6-1 thru 6-5. Should be fun when 47-1 comes on line!

So, wait, is 24 mapping to 70-x? And when did they start mapping that audio sub?

- Trip

I get the KRMA audio sub on 18-5 now, very clearly. It used to break up where it was mostly just drop outs. But now it's like listening to a radio station.

KMGH just announced that they will NOT be suspending analog broadcasts on Feb 17.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/18676059/detail.html

KMGH just announced that they will NOT be suspending analog broadcasts on Feb 17.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/18676059/detail.html

Oh crap, they were the one major local that we all thought might buck the establishment and transition on 2/17. If they're not going to shut off analog on 2/17, you can pretty much bet that KCNC, KUSA, and KDVR won't either.

KCNC is the only digital signal from LOM that we cannot get a lock on. We are in North Erie, near I-25 and Hwy 52. Several months ago, KCNC was in the 90's and solid lock all of the time.
I have sent an email to KCNC describing the problem, but they have not responded.

There are many entries in this forum back a few months ago, about the signal problems with KCNC near Longmont/Erie. What is the latest?

Can anyone give me an update on what KCNC is doing?

We have a solid lock on the following channels from here with LOS no obstructions to LOM:
2-1, 6-1,2,3, 7-1, 9-1,2, 12-1,2,3, 20-1, 31-1

Thinking of purchasing a DB8 antenna as a suppliment to the large combination antenna in the attic, with a combiner. But, this is a single channel problem. They must be aware of complaints about the reception up here!

I live in Niwot, aprox 10mi west of you. I'm on the back side of the Niwot ridge (north side) so LOM stations are all two edge signals (Niwot ridge and the S Boulder ridge). KCNC is my strongest signal. My azimuth to LOM shouldn't be more than 10 deg off of yours, and you have LOS to LOM. Seems like there is some problem other than signal strength that your dealing with.

Does your tuner allow you to manually scan a single channel (and maybe observer its signal strength). If so, try that. KCNC is on channel 35. What does your signal meter read for it now?

I haven't heard anyone else in the area (longmont, louisville) complain about KCNC since they tweaked the antenna and up their power a while back (after the meltdown).

KMGH just announced that they will NOT be suspending analog broadcasts on Feb 17.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/18676059/detail.html

In their statement, Vice President & General Manager, Byron Grandy, explained
"I am concerned that thousands of viewers who have installed converter boxes and made the DTV switch are not able to receive our signal. I want to deliver to these viewers a full power over the air digital signal as soon as possible. I also understand there is some uncertainty about the DTV transition and many folks need more time to prepare. My hope is we can accommodate all viewers prior to June,"

Doesn't this guy understand that providing a full power digital transmission on UHF-17 is at best worthless, and at worst, encouraging people to make wrong antenna decisions. Wouldn't it be better to switch digital to VHF-7 now so all those unprepared people won't have time to go buy, install , and debug a setup that might then fail to work two months later when they switch broadcast frequencies?

Wouldn't it be nice if they could, on Feb 17th, switch their digital to VHF-7 and their analog to UHF-17, that would solve both problems. I'm sure the FCC wouldn't allow that, but it would be nice.

I was really hoping that they would transition on the 17th so that I could see how my antennas do for a digital VHF.

Here's a RNM story on the station's decisions to delay.

RMN Story (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/09/several-denver-tv-stations-delay-ending-analog-ser/)

So, wait, is 24 mapping to 70-x? And when did they start mapping that audio sub?

- Trip

Yes 24-x is mapping to 70-x. The audio came on line a few days back. It is called "reading." When I go to add a channel in the setup, 18 shows a 60% signal but says no service and has a blank screen and won't let me add to channel list.

I tried again with myhd and I don't know what happened before but now I have two sets of 6-x, and in the rf box it correctly says 18 for one and 24 for the second. I suspect that before it couldn't lock 24-x as KRMA is my weakest channel and comes and goes. Out of my four digital tuners, the myhd is by far the worst and can almost never lock and record KRMA.

Mt dtc100 has 18-x in memory and lets me scroll thru the subs. It will let me manually punch in 24-x but doesn't have them stored and I can't "channel up" thru them. Neither map to 6-1. I'm not sure that I want to do a rescan. ;)

Ho ho,top of the page to me!

Posted by jr_ota:
Doesn't this guy understand that providing a full power digital transmission on UHF-17 is at best worthless, and at worst, encouraging people to make wrong antenna decisions. Wouldn't it be better to switch digital to VHF-7 now so all those unprepared people won't have time to go buy, install , and debug a setup that might then fail to work two months later when they switch broadcast frequencies?
Apparently, I got a different take on the press release than you did.

What I read was that KMGH has had some equipment issues since December that haven't been fixed yet. If they shut off analog, they don't have the capability to send out a full power digital signal. When they get the issues addressed, they will try to shut down analog before June 12.

I do question this, though, if it is correct for two reasons. First, why did KMGH notify the FCC last week that they intended to shut off analog if they knew they had equipment issues? Second, what prevented them from having a little more sense of urgency to get the issues addressed, knowing, until recently, that analog would shut down on Feb. 17?

Interesting that there isn't info on KTVD yet. Thought they might go on Feb. 17 to help out KRMA.

KDVR made their decision to delay official during "24" tonight (gee thanks for giving us that SD picture with the big crawl at one of the most high tension points in the story this hour). I guess the only unknown is KTVD, but since they are owned by Gannett and Gannett has pledged to keep analog running, so I'm not expecting them to break any new ground.

KMGH just announced that they will NOT be suspending analog broadcasts on Feb 17.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/18676059/detail.html

The funny thing is that the FCC just approved their STA request to go to their full power post transition digital service on February 17th. Oh well.

It appears the only Denver area station that filed the notice to terminate on 2/17 is KBDI.

It appears the only Denver area station that filed the notice to terminate on 2/17 is KBDI.

You forgot KWGN, unless their paperwork is late:

On February 17 KWGN-TV, Denver, Colorado, intends to cease analog broadcasting; this will occur prior to the new nationwide DTV transition date of June 12, 2009.

http://www.kwgn.com/pages/dtv_transition/

Can someone buy KCNC a HD DVR?

Apparently Obama's press conference "forced" them to present tonight's CBS schedule in 4:3… :(

Posted by jsmar:
The funny thing is that the FCC just approved their STA request to go to their full power post transition digital service on February 17th. Oh well.
I think this is OK, even a smart move on their part. Since they now have an STA to go to channel 7 prior to 6-12-09, all they have to do is give notice to the FCC 30 days before they intend to shut off analog. This goes hand in hand with their press release today.

Posted by dvdmth:
It appears the only Denver area station that filed the notice to terminate on 2/17 is KBDI.
This is one sided. Their analog transmitter isn't operational, so why not formally shut it off? They'll still be on channel 38 until 6-12 since the two conflicting analog stations on channel 38 - Springs & Alliance, NE, will keep analog for the duration. It would be interesting to find out how many inquiries/complaints KBDI has received/will receive regarding no analog service.

Posted by kucharsk:
Apparently Obama's press conference "forced" them to present tonight's CBS schedule in 4:3…
I watched CSI Miami in 16:9. And, no, I didn't stretch 4:3.

There isn't any filing by KWGN to terminate analog. It was due 2-9-09 and I believe all of the FCC filings for 2-9-09 have posted.

This is one sided. Their analog transmitter isn't operational, so why not formally shut it off?

Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, they're going to formally shut it off on February 17.

They'll still be on channel 38 until 6-12 since the two conflicting analog stations on channel 38 - Springs & Alliance, NE, will keep analog for the duration.

KTNE in Alliance flash-cut to digital late last year. That one's no longer a problem. KRDO, however, remains a concern...

- Trip

Posted by kucharsk:

I watched CSI Miami in 16:9. And, no, I didn't stretch 4:3.

Must have just been the programming his press conference pre-empted on the east coast (the 7:00 - 8:00 PM hour.)

Hmm, based on KLWY's updated filing I think they think that they can go to their post transition facility on February 17th without file a request for a STA. They have a comment in the form 387 filing that says:

CONSTRUCTION IS COMPLETE. JUST WAITING TO TRANSITION ON FEB 17, 2009

They really should file for the STA. KMGH got theirs approved really quickly (even though they have since decided not to transition of Feb. 17th).

I recently re-scanned for digital channels on my Sony Bravia LCD TV, and now I get KRMA on both 18-1 as well as 6-1. Seems like I get a stronger signal on the 18-* stations (but that could just be my imagination). Can someone explain why I'm getting both? Is it because KRMA is broadcasting on the "real" channel 18 but mapped to 6?

Thanks!
David

You forgot KWGN, unless their paperwork is late:

I did not forget KWGN. It was the first station I checked after the filings were reported to be in. They did NOT file, or the FCC didn't post it (which I guess is possible).

Posted by jr_ota:

Apparently, I got a different take on the press release than you did.

What I read was that KMGH has had some equipment issues since December that haven't been fixed yet. If they shut off analog, they don't have the capability to send out a full power digital signal. When they get the issues addressed, they will try to shut down analog before June 12.

I do question this, though, if it is correct for two reasons. First, why did KMGH notify the FCC last week that they intended to shut off analog if they knew they had equipment issues? Second, what prevented them from having a little more sense of urgency to get the issues addressed, knowing, until recently, that analog would shut down on Feb. 17?


I don't read it that way. I think the technical issues are with the transition transmitter they are using for channel 17 digital. These problems required them to further reduce their transmitter power (and Channel 17 was never "full power" to begin with). Rather than spend the money to fix the problems, they were just planning to go full power on channel 7 on Feb. 17. Now that is delayed.

I am sure getting tired of the audio/video breakups on KMGH-DT due to this issue.

Mark

I re-read KMGH's press release. It amazes me that things such as these press releases aren't written with a little more clarity and specificity.

I am still of the opinion that their concern is that they can't provide a full power digital signal. That full power digital signal would be on channel 7, not channel 17. A requirement of the transition is for a station to give up one of its two channels when shutting off analog. KMGH will be giving up channel 17. As a result, their concern with providing a full power digital signal must be centered around channel 7. They're intention is not to ramp up channel 17's power and go back to channel 7 some time later. They can't do that. So they're not looking to "fix" channel 17, they're looking for a "fix" for channel 7.

I'm surprised no one has commented about the article in today's Post. It looks like all of the major Denver stations will shut off analog before June 12 but later than March 17 and that they will all do it at the same time. That's probably why there isn't a filing for KWGN to shut down analog on Feb 17.

I also thought it was interesting that many of the analog translators out in the boonies are not licensed. Is there some ERP threshold that, if a translator stays under it, exempts them from licensing requirements?

Another thought I had is that if these translators shut down concurrently with the switch to digital (since they apparently aren't capable of receiving the digital signal and concerting it to analog), are these viewers included in the estimates of folks who haven't bothered to get CECB's yet? These viewers "aren't ready", but CECB's are not an option for them.

I recently re-scanned for digital channels on my Sony Bravia LCD TV, and now I get KRMA on both 18-1 as well as 6-1. Seems like I get a stronger signal on the 18-* stations (but that could just be my imagination). Can someone explain why I'm getting both? Is it because KRMA is broadcasting on the "real" channel 18 but mapped to 6?

Thanks!
David

It could be that your picking up both 18 and 24. Your tv scans up, hits 18, checks PSIP data, programs 6 and subs to program map table, then continues scanning up til 24 (a weaker signal), and overwrites program map table. Now 6-1 tunes 24 sub 1 and 18-1 tunes 18 sub 1. Then 18 (if it is your stronger signal) would appear stronger than 6 (which is actually tuning 24).

24 is a KRMA repeater located near 30th and Baseline in Boulder. You could be picking this up, depending on where you live.

Anyone want to call KWGN and get an answer, or should we just wait a week?

The list of Feb 17 stations up on the fcc site http://www.fcc.gov/

Yep, it's only KBDI in Denver (and a few other stations around Colorado).

Questions:
Can they move to 13 on Feb 17? (or could they be forced to stay on 38 or 12 ?)
Will they get their antenna fixed by Feb 17? (they intend to use their old, currently damaged antenna at the top of the tower to broadcast digital on 13)

In Louisville , I get nothing on 38, and I only get a very fuzzy analog picture on 12. (But I can get all other DT stations if I aim my antenna right).

I hope that I will finally get KDBI well after they move DT higher up on the tower, broadcast on 13, and increase power. I read somewhere the terrain interference should matter less on VHF (13) than on UHF (38). Is that right?

Can they move to 13 on Feb 17? (or could they be forced to stay on 38 or 12 ?)
Will they get their antenna fixed by Feb 17? (they intend to use their old, currently damaged antenna at the top of the tower to broadcast digital on 13)

As I understand it, KBDI (and all other stations wishing to switch to their post-transition channel assignments) must either wait until 6/13 or get an STA. In the case of KBDI, they must wait for KRDO to terminate analog before they can even consider moving to 13. KRDO is staying analog AFAIK.

Since they can't move to 13, they can take their sweet time getting the damaged transmitter fixed if desired.

What is KCDO channel 3 and why is it on my D* guide?

See post #5162 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15715063#post15715063).

So am I the only one wondering when, precisely, Obama is going to get around to signing the law?

He'd better do it by next Tuesday or most of the television stations in the country would be in violation of the current law on the books.

The stations making plans for June are doing so in anticipation of a new law, which is, frankly, quasi-wacky.

I've read a lot of posts on various Avs threads about "concern" over when the President is going to sign "the law". He can't sign legislation until it is "presented" to him and that didn't occur until Monday. On Monday, the President had a full plate, traveling to Indiana for a town hall meeting and giving a national press conference. On Tuesday, he traveled to Ft. Myers, FL. I think the President has some priorities - A, B, C types. I'm not too sure extending the analog shutoff falls into the A category yet.

The President requested this legislation. I believe the White House issued a statement stating he intended to sign the legislation. He's going to sign the legislation. He's got 10 days, give him a little time. Remember S. 4092, the LOM legislation? Several days passed before W signed it. But, nevertheless, there was all kind of conjecture on this thread regarding W signing it, not signing it (pocket veto).

I was a little surprised to see both KMGH and KUSA do a dtv test on RF7 and RF9 this morning from 9-10AM. That kind of testing is usually reserved for the early AM hours. I wonder if there is anything we can read into this (probably not), or if it is just a case that they have engineers from the antenna or transmitter suppliers here who wanted to do testing while they were present.

I was a little surprised to see both KMGH and KUSA do a dtv test on RF7 and RF9 this morning from 9-10AM.

That is surprising. How did this affect their UHF broadcasts? Did they give any sort of on air warning before they did it, or did everyone's screen just go blank?

That is surprising. How did this affect their UHF broadcasts? Did they give any sort of on air warning before they did it, or did everyone's screen just go blank?

They kept their UHF broadcasts going, which is what they did last time they did this kind of testing (in the middle of the night). I have no idea what kind of warnings they broadcast, since I did not actually witness it. I have dtv scanning software running on my home server which tracks channels going on/off air, signal quality, and PSIP changes.

Longmont K-Mart has both Zenith DTT901(s) and DTV Pal Plus(s)

Noted elsewhere, it appears that the President signed the DTV Transition Delay bill late today. So now everything is official and law and we have to suffer through 4 more months of those annoying Transition notices that those who need to heed them have ignored for a couple of years.

Yep.

Sorry for my earlier comment; it just seemed to be taking a long time for the bill to be presented.

Too bad KWGN still hasn't updated their web site.

Even if the LCG stations had decided to go on February 17, odds are they wouldn't be going.

Your Government at work:

The Federal Communications Commission late Wednesday rejected, at least temporarily, a quarter of the requests from the 491 TV stations that had asked to switch to digital-only signals on Feb. 17.

President Barack Obama earlier Wednesday signed legislation pushing back the national switch to June 12 from the original Feb. 17 date. Stations were given the option of applying to stick with the February date.

The FCC had warned it might reject switches that weren’t in the public interest. In Wednesday night’s action the commission expressed concern about markets where all the major network affiliates were switching early. That would potentially leave viewers who were unprepared for the digital switchover without any source for local TV news or emergency messages.

The action blocked switches of major stations in Dayton, Ohio; Eugene, Ore.; Billings, Mont.; Lincoln, Neb.; Madison, Wis.; Providence, R.I.; Rockford, Ill.; LaCrosse, Wis.; Charleston, W.Va.; Santa Barbara, Calif.; Sioux City, Iowa; Topeka, Kan.; Wausau, Wis. and Wichita, Kan., among other locations.

The agency, however, suggested it could let many of the same stations go ahead with switch if at least one major local station would continue to broadcast an analog signal. Other factors considered would be as assessment of whether the analog station had news and public affairs programming and if stations would set up “walk in” centers to help local residents apply for coupons and set up converter boxes that would let analog TVs receive digital signals. The stations were asked to agree to the conditions by Friday if they wanted to go ahead.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/02/fcc_rejects_25_of_early_dtvswi.php

If any other agency other than the Government pulled this they'd be indicted under the RICO statutes.

Tony Soprano must be in charge at the FCC.

even if the lcg stations had decided to go on february 17, odds are they wouldn't be going.

Your government at work:



If any other agency other than the government pulled this they'd be indicted under the rico statutes.

Tony soprano must be in charge at the fcc.

+1

Longmont K-Mart has both Zenith DTT901(s) and DTV Pal Plus(s)

I picked up dtvpal plus there a few days ago but didn't see the Zeniths. Might go back and get a DTT901. Did they have a lot?

I was a little surprised to see both KMGH and KUSA do a dtv test on RF7 and RF9 this morning from 9-10AM.

I wish they would pre-announce these tests - it would do me good.

I picked up dtvpal plus there a few days ago but didn't see the Zeniths. Might go back and get a DTT901. Did they have a lot?

I did not look closely. The best bet is try to find someone to ask. I wasted one of my coupons on a Magnavox and have thought some about another Zenith DTT901. How do you like your DTVPal Plus? I do not know of any stores with Zinwell ZAT-970A. I wonder what Analog PassThru Via R/C means.

The Target in SouthWest Longmont has:
Venturer STB7766G1 PassThru;EZAdd;NoEPG
Apex DT502 PassThru;TuneToAdd;3DayEPG;PoorPQ
Sansonic FT300A NoPassThru;NoEZAdd;NoEPG

I did not look closely. The best bet is try to find someone to ask. I wasted one of my coupons on a Magnavox and have thought some about another Zenith DTT901. How do you like your DTVPal Plus? I do not know of any stores with Zinwell ZAT-970A. I wonder what Analog PassThru Via R/C means.

The Target in SouthWest Longmont has:
Venturer STB7766G1 PassThru;EZAdd;NoEPG
Apex DT502 PassThru;TuneToAdd;3DayEPG;PoorPQ
Sansonic FT300A NoPassThru;NoEZAdd;NoEPG

The dtvpal is ok. It's tuner is much better than any other I have, which are all at least 4 years old. It doesn't like 18-1 and 24-1 both being mapped to 6-1, which all my other tuners seem to be ok with now.

I think "analog passthru via r/c" means you can hit a button on your remote control for analog passthru. The dtvpal has this. I'm not sure if I want another box as I only have one analog TV. My panny plasma doesn't have a program guide, but has a digital tuner so I was thinking of using a cecb just for a program guide hooked up via a composite input. I've got one coupon left. How do you like the DTT901?

FWIW I've got two early DTT900s (no analog pass-through, purchased at Circuit City last April or so when you had to find the converters yourself because the sales people didn't know what they were) and they're the most sensitive DTV tuners I own, occasionally even being able to lock on to KBDI-DT, though full of blockies.

My S3 TiVo and Sony HDTV don't even see that.

I've got a Sansonic and two DTT901s. I like the DTT901 a lot. They are very user friendly and display a good picture. The Sansonic lacks in features and is not user friendly. Mine was not very reliable and started acting flaky, then the remote died.

I got my first DTT901 because of the analog pass-through, but I get all the channels I want on digital so I never use the pass-through mode.

The dtvpal is ok. It's tuner is much better than any other I have, which are all at least 4 years old. It doesn't like 18-1 and 24-1 both being mapped to 6-1, which all my other tuners seem to be ok with now.

I think "analog passthru via r/c" means you can hit a button on your remote control for analog passthru. The dtvpal has this. I'm not sure if I want another box as I only have one analog TV. My panny plasma doesn't have a program guide, but has a digital tuner so I was thinking of using a cecb just for a program guide hooked up via a composite input. I've got one coupon left. How do you like the DTT901?

I like the Zenith DTT901 very well. It is running 24/7 with a TiVo series 2 driving it through an IR Blaster. Its well ventilated metal case keeps it cool.
The remote control [standby] button : light blue => red and Analog Pass Through mode.

Of course TiVo cannot do that simple operation and the analog pass through is not being used. My coupons are long gone and I do not know if a DTVPal Plus or a Zinwell ZAT-970A could really be used to schedule a VCR recording.

Even if the LCG stations had decided to go on February 17, odds are they wouldn't be going.

Your Government at work:



If any other agency other than the Government pulled this they'd be indicted under the RICO statutes.

Tony Soprano must be in charge at the FCC.

Post of the year. Awesome.

And the DTV saga continues.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/13/AR2009021303504_pf.html

Longmont K-Mart has both Zenith DTT901(s) and DTV Pal Plus(s)

The Arvada K-Mart (58th near Kipling) has about 2 dozen Zenith DTT901s and a dozen DTV Pal Plus(s) as of late yesterday afternoon. I already own a DTT900 and a 901, but I just checked to see if it was true that all K-Mart's are now carrying these two popular CECBs.

KUSA reported this morning:

"Most Denver stations are waiting at least a couple of months before turning off their analog signals."

KUSA reported this morning:

"Most Denver stations are waiting at least a couple of months before turning off their analog signals."

During their report on a DTV workshop, Cheryl Preheim (?) stated that KUSA had not yet made a decision on when they were going to make the switch to digital, but they would inform their viewers as soon as the decision is made.

Does anyone know what's been going on with KWGN? I normally receive their signal with no blocking or artifacting of any kind. However, occasionally their signal strength drops to about half of what it was (normally around 50% and drops to about 25% and lower). At that point the lower 1/3 of the screen gets blocky for a few seconds and then clears.

It happened a couple of times yesterday. There was no wind, and I don't see anything on their web site indicating that they were testing or making any changes.

Did anyone else notice it?

As far as the digital transition, I only want them to go to their final configuration so I'll know if I need to worry about re-aiming my antenna. right now, the only one that I'd like to get that I don't is channel 7 (KMGH). There was a post in the comments on their web site regarding their DTV antenna failure back in the beginning of December, but the post was from January 22nd. No further information seems to be posted.

Other than that, my DTV reception has been great. I rescan occasionally to see if anything new has appeared, but nothing yet. I'm still reading this thread to keep up on the current situations.

-Laura

I've had my ATSC tuner for about a month and a half now, getting the signal through my attic antenna. Up until last Wednesday or Thursday everything was coming in fine, then KRMA goes away - nothing on 6.1, 6.2, or 6.3. Tried rescanning and nothing. Called KRMA and they claim no changes made.

Anyone else have this problem? I'm at a loss.

I'm another person who has lost the KRMA station. It's signal has always been relatively low strength, but it always locked and gave a good picture. A few days ago it's received signal strength dropped low enough that it no longer locks consistently and is not viewable.

KRMA has always been difficult for us to pick up here in Cheyenne. The signal is almost always locked in during the evening hours but almost impossible to lock in during the day. Haven't noticed any changes in their signal the past few days. Did notice that their signal is at 480 image quality for channels 6-1, 6-2, 6-3 as well as 6-5 (which is audio only). Channnel 6-1 used to be at 1080i.

KRMA's 6-1 web-posted digital schedule indicated that it would resume HD for 2-3 hours in primetime starting yesterday (Sunday) -- until today when their updated schedule removed the HD references for this week. I'm disappointed that it didn't happen.

My 6-x signal strength has also dropped over the past 3 days or so -- marginally, but enough to make reception spotty here. Better in daytime.

Does anyone have anything about when Fort Collins 47 might be operational? I emailed them and asked several days ago with no response.

I haven't experienced any changes in signal strengths. KWGN and KRMA are unchanged. KQCK's audio won't decode on some of my receivers. Also noticed tonight that I'm receiving KGWN out of Cheyenne. Perhaps it's the atmosphere at work. I believe KLWY 27-1 Fox in Cheyenne flash cuts to full power digital tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see if I can pick them up.

:) Happy DTV transition day everyone! :)




umm..... oh wait, nevermind :o

:) Happy DTV transition day everyone! :)




umm..... oh wait, nevermind :o

Yes, this should have been a happy day for most of us in these forums. But instead, thanks to lowest common denominator politics, it is just a real bummer. Maybe they should have called the delay legislation the "No Couch Potato Left Behind Act".

Oh well, I'll be in Mexico by Saturday night and, thankfully, I won't be thinking about OTA TV.

There are 7 stations in Colorado that are transitioning today (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/18727001/detail.html#-).

The Colorado stations are: KBDI-TV (PBS), KREG-TV (CBS) and KRMZ (PBS) in Denver; and KFQX (Fox), KKCO (NBC), KREX-TV (CBS), KREY-TV (CBS) in Grand Junction-Montrose.

There are 7 stations in Colorado that are transitioning today (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/18727001/detail.html#-).

KBDI hasn't been analog for weeks due to the wind damaged antenna, so their transition is a non-event. I can't receive the others OTA, so their transition will go unnoticed at my house.

KBDI hasn't been analog for weeks due to the wind damaged antenna, so their transition is a non-event. I can't receive the others OTA, so their transition will go unnoticed at my house.
Who else has to transition before KBDI-DT can move from 38 to 13? I'm hoping that is going to improve my (very marginal) reception for them.

Who else has to transition before KBDI-DT can move from 38 to 13?

KRDO in Colorado Springs

Up until last Wednesday or Thursday everything was coming in fine, then KRMA goes away - nothing on 6.1, 6.2, or 6.3...Anyone else have this problem?

I normally receive KRMA-DT at 85%, but I noticed that it's dropped to 70% over the past few days. No idea when it started.

KBDI hasn't been analog for weeks due to the wind damaged antenna, so their transition is a non-event. I can't receive the others OTA, so their transition will go unnoticed at my house.

Same for KBDI for me.

Not like they (or for that matter, KRMA) broadcast any HD content anyway…

I believe KLWY 27-1 Fox in Cheyenne flash cuts to full power digital tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see if I can pick them up.

I called KLWY this morning and asked when they would make the switch. The receptionist said they were scheduled to turn the analog transmitter off and boost the power on the DTV transmitter between 1 and 3 this afternoon...BUT...

The engineers doing the work called KLWY and told them they were stuck in a snowstorm west of Denver and didn't know how soon they would get to Cheyenne.

I believe KLWY 27-1 Fox in Cheyenne flash cuts to full power digital tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see if I can pick them up.

I don't think that is going to happen. The FCC turned down their request because KGWN already terminated analog so KLWY is the only remaining major network still broadcasting analog in Cheyenne. The FCC specified conditions that KLWY probably could not meet, so it probably won't happen unless KLWY ignores the FCC. Also, even if they were allowed to terminate analog they can't go full power on 27-1 unless they file a STA request, since permission to terminate analog only allows you to broadcast digital on your pre-transition channel.

Their best option might be to immediately file to terminate analog within the 90 day window prior to June 12th, which requires a 30 day notice. This would allow them to terminate sometime mid march. I'm not sure if the FCC will still have the same requirements for analog termination that they had for terminating February 17th or not. They may also be able to make a case based on financial issues.

They would also then need to file a STA to transition to their post transition facility.

I don't think that is going to happen.

Umm, nevermind. I don't think they are doing this legally, but KLWY just shutdown analog on RF27 and came up with their digital service. I seem to be getting it just fine off the back of my antenna.

I don't think that is going to happen. The FCC turned down their request because KGWN already terminated analog so KLWY is the only remaining major network still broadcasting analog in Cheyenne. The FCC specified conditions that KLWY probably could not meet, so it probably won't happen unless KLWY ignores the FCC. Also, even if they were allowed to terminate analog they can't go full power on 27-1 unless they file a STA request, since permission to terminate analog only allows you to broadcast digital on your pre-transition channel.


As of yesterday (16th), the FCC was showing that KLWY is scheduled to flash-cut to DTV today. If you read my earlier post, you would see I talked to the receptionist, who also confirmed that. I have attached a couple jpeg images of the latest documents from the FCC and their consultants. One is from the PDF document showing which stations would be transitioning when. The other jpeg is from the PDF document showing KLWY-DT's coverage post-transition.

As of yesterday (16th), the FCC was showing that KLWY is scheduled to flash-cut to DTV today.

There are two different issues here. The first is whether or not KLWY can terminate their analog service or not. That status seems to have changed, i.e. KLWY either was able to make their case on a financial difficulty basis, or they were able to get the enhanced nightlight provision waived for some other reason.

However, that does not give them permission to flash cut to their post transition digital service. They need a STA approved to do that. Otherwise they only have permission to continue their low power service on RF28 as far as I can see. Now, getting such a STA approved should be simple, since they are using the same RF channel as their previous analog service, which means that they should not interfere with any other analog service that is continuing until June 12.

But, I may be missing something, and regardless, I'm happy that KLWY has done the flashcut.

Kgwn is not going to end analog broadcast until June 12 so there will still be 2 network affilates on analog until June 12 KGWN -CBS KDEV-LP ABC so KLWY could change if they have aproval

I have here are some excerpts from the artical in todays Wyoming Tribune Eagle
KGWN-TV (CBS)

Analog channel: 5

Digital channel: 30

Viewing method between Feb. 17 and June 12: Both analog and digital

The local CBS affiliate is the only network station in Cheyenne that plans to broadcast via both signals after Tuesday.

But it has been doing both for a number of years, said general manager Joan Turner Doyle.

In her talks around the community, she finds that most people are ready, but there's still a handful of people who haven't figured it out yet.

"This will give everyone an extra opportunity to get ready," she said.

KLWY (FOX)

Analog Channel 27

Digital (before Feb. 17): Channel 28

Digital (after Feb. 17): Channel 27

Viewing method after Feb. 17: Digital converter box only

This Cheyenne-based station has notified the FCC that its analog station is going dark after Tuesday, said general manager Mark Nalbone.

That's because the digital channel will be 27 -- same as the analog. Because they share a channel, it is impossible to broadcast both signals at full power, he said.

KLWY currently broadcasts a low-power digital signal over channel 28. That will disappear next Tuesday.

KWYP-TV (PBS)

Analog Channel 8

Digital Channel 8

Viewing method after Feb. 17: Digital only, with improved signal for Cheyenne this spring

Those who live in the Capital City often find that Wyoming PBS' signal is weak or non-existent.

By Tuesday, that ought to improve with the help of a converter box, said Bob Connelly, the assistant general manager for Wyoming PBS in Lander.

Cheyenne's signal comes from a transmitter that sits on Pilot Hill, east of Laramie, he said.

On Tuesday, Wyoming PBS is shutting down all analog -- a move that will save about $3,000 a month for the member- and tax-supported station -- and go completely digital.

Even if you still can't tune in to "Nova" in the post-transition period, that should be cured by mid-April, Connelly said.

Wyoming PBS is building a fill-in translator near Dell Range Boulevard, he said. This will amplify the signal from Pilot Hill, and fill in that "shadow" that stretches over the area east of downtown.

KCHY-LP (NBC)

Analog Channel 13

Digital Channel: TBD

Viewing method after Feb. 17: Analog only

This low-powered station is the satellite outlet for the NBC affiliate in Casper.

In Casper, viewers will get reception from both signals after Tuesday, said general manager Peggy Porter.

However, since the Cheyenne satellite is a low-powered station, there's no requirement or deadline to switch to digital. There's no digital signal for this station yet.

KDEV-LP (ABC)

Analog Channel 40

Digital Channel: None

With a bankruptcy filing for this station's parent company, it's unclear what the future holds.

KDEV is owned by Denver Broadcasting Inc., a subsidiary of Arkansas-based Equity Media Holdings Corp., which filed for Chapter 11 in December.

The station does broadcast K2TV's newscasts, but there's no other connection with the Casper ABC affiliate.

Channel 40 doesn't have to go dark in June -- just like KCHY, it broadcasts on a low-power signal.

Last year, KDEV shut down its full-power analog station (Channel 33) and started broadcasting from a low-powered station with the same station name. Digital and cable broadcasting aired under the new station name of KQCK.

Documents at the FCC indicate there is a digital channel 11 that broadcasts from Cheyenne-based KQCK.

Officials from Equity Media did not return a phone call from the Wyoming Tribune Eagle.

A friend of mine indicated that KUSA said yesterday (on their evening news) that they would be doing some testing switching back and forth between analog and digital on RF9 today between 4PM and 8PM. If that is true they haven't started yet, but I thought I'd give a heads up for those who are interested.

Note, so far their testing has not been at their full approved power for RF9 (45KW ERP). At least I hope that is true (the signal levels from their most recent tests were no different from previous tests which were done before they were approved for 45KW). The reason I hope that is true is that my reception of their digital service on RF9 has been very poor, whereas my reception of KMGH's digital service on RF7 has been OK.

jsmar, please see this:
http://www.fcc.gov/021609AttachmentA.pdf
Note that KGWN changed their mind and decided to keep analog on, at least for the time being.

Posted by jsmar:
A friend of mine indicated that KUSA said yesterday (on their evening news) that they would be doing some testing switching back and forth between analog and digital on RF9 today between 4PM and 8PM. If that is true they haven't started yet, but I thought I'd give a heads up for those who are interested.
KUSA has been running soft tests during its newscasts, beginning at 4:00. I recollect their running 3 of them so far.
Note, so far their testing has not been at their full approved power for RF9 (45KW ERP).
How do you know that?

jsmar, please see this:
http://www.fcc.gov/021609AttachmentA.pdf
Note that KGWN changed their mind and decided to keep analog on, at least for the time being.

Yes, the FCC made a correction from their original report which denied KLWY's ability to terminate analog. Note again that permission to terminate analog does not grant permission to go to your post transition digital service (unless pre and post are the same thing). That requires a STA.


Regarding KUSA testing:

How do you know that?

I don't know it. I'm infering it from the fact that the signal level that I received in Fort Collins has been the same for each test. The first test occurred before KUSA had permission to go to 45KW, so I am assuming that they have not run a test at 45 KW. My other reason for believing this is that I believe I should have no trouble receiving KUSA when they are broadcasting at 45KW, but I have gotten a terrible quality signal during their testing, whereas KMGH's digital signal of RF7 has been fine. This could also be explained by an antenna null however. I sure hope that is not the case.

Got a strong lock on 27-1 at 68% without much tweaking. :D

Sweet! Getting KLWY at a solid 60% here in Bennett...

Posted by jsmar:

KUSA has been running soft tests during its newscasts, beginning at 4:00. I recollect their running 3 of them so far.

How do you know that?

I tuned into KUSA when I read your earlier post. At the end of their 5pm news they announced that during the next (last) commercial break, which lasted 30sec to 1 min, they would be running a test. During the commercial I scanned for a digital signal on VHF-9 and found nothing. When they returned they explained that if you saw a fixed image message during the break, then you are NOT ready for DTV transition. I gathered from this that they broadcast the still image message via analog signal on VHF-9 carrier and ran the normal commercials via digital signal on UHF-16.
I don't believe they transmitted a digital signal on VHF-9 like you believed they would. If they did, those people watching their analog sets would have seen nothing/static, not a fixed image message.

So, someone did what was supposed to happen today.

I'm getting a solid lock on 27-1 and 27-2 - and this is after getting nothing out of their 28 DTV and a pretty bad picture on their 27 NTSC all this time.

Does anyone know if KUSA will do any more testing on 9 DTV? I didn't catch anything at the 6 pm newscast. I'm more interested in whether or not my UHF only DTV antenna is going to hack the VHF-hi signals or if I need to crawl back up in the attic and switch back to the old antenna.

Got a strong lock on 27-1 at 68% without much tweaking. :D

Notice that KLWY has their SD on 27-1 and their HD on 27-2. This is backwards from most other (or all other) stations in the area, including KGWN 5 from Wyoming also.

Locked in Wyoming PBS-KWYP with no problem even though their antenna is 40 miles due west of Cheyenne (and mainly serves Laramie) and my antenna is pointed south to LOM in Golden. Channel 8.1 is digital and 8.5 is in HD. Some of you in Northern Colorado may be able to pick it up also. KWYP will be adding another translator a few miles east of Cheyenne sometime in April-May according to their engineering dept. KLWY is scanning in at 27-4 only and is in HD.

I tuned into KUSA when I read your earlier post. At the end of their 5pm news they announced that during the next (last) commercial break, which lasted 30sec to 1 min, they would be running a test. During the commercial I scanned for a digital signal on VHF-9 and found nothing. When they returned they explained that if you saw a fixed image message during the break, then you are NOT ready for DTV transition. I gathered from this that they broadcast the still image message via analog signal on VHF-9 carrier and ran the normal commercials via digital signal on UHF-16.
I don't believe they transmitted a digital signal on VHF-9 like you believed they would. If they did, those people watching their analog sets would have seen nothing/static, not a fixed image message.

It sounds like what KUSA announced was a soft test, not a "hard" test. They have never preannounced their hard tests, since the hard tests have not been done for the benefit of the viewers. I would be surprised if they actually did a hard test in the evening hours, although I was surprised when they did the hard test in the 9-10AM block last week. Previously they had done a hard test in the early morning hours.

So far KUSA and KMGH have done their hard testing at the same time.

I'm another person who has lost the KRMA station. It's signal has always been relatively low strength, but it always locked and gave a good picture. A few days ago it's received signal strength dropped low enough that it no longer locks consistently and is not viewable.

KRMA became very unreliable for me starting around 2 pm on February 12th, with the exception of a 5 hour period last night from about 10 pm until 3 am this morning.

KUSA filed a STA request to transition to their post transition digital service on RF9 sometime in late March or early April. They said they will inform the FCC of the exact date at a later time, and would broadcast a notice of the transition date for at least 30 days prior.

Here is a link to the STA application:

KUSA STA request (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1296328&Service=TV&Form_id=911&Facility_id=23074)

I love the agreement in the exhibit:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=730466

Where KUSA and KKTV realize that the former's operation on 9 and the latter's operation on 10 will cause interference:

3. KUSA has been notified by the FCC that its proposed digital operation on its elected NTSC Channel 9 would result in 34.6% interference to KKTV's proposed digital operation on its elected DTV Channel 10.

4. Each of the parties wishes to retain its respective first round DTV channel election. Accordingly, in order to resolve their conflict, MHC and GTL hereby agree to accept any interference which would result from KUSA's currently proposed digital operation on NTSC Channel 9 and KKTV (sic) currently proposed digital operation on DTV Channel 10.

5. Except for the mutual agreement set forth in Paragraph 4, no consideration is being paid or promised by either party in connection with this Agreement.

KRMA became very unreliable for me starting around 2 pm on February 12th, with the exception of a 5 hour period last night from about 10 pm until 3 am this morning.

I have the opposite problem. KRMA seems to fizzle out around 8 or 9pm for me and is usually fine during the day.

I haven't seen any change in my KRMA signal for several months. Though only 73/100 on my Dish ViP211, it is 72 or 73 every time I tune in that channel. Hardly any variation in signal strength. Unlike the LOM stations, which vary widely (i.e., +20 points) over the course of days and weeks.

See, isn't it a good thing Congress delayed the transition?

The Federal Communications Commission said calls to its digital-TV transition help lines decreased Wednesday, the day after 417 stations switched away from analog signals.

The decline may suggest that more viewers were concerned about the prospect of the DTV transition than actually had problems with the conversion. The FCC numbers don’t take into account calls to local stations, and the National Association of Broadcasters estimated that most stations received an average of 50-200 calls each.

The NAB said the number of calls “paled in comparison to the 12.4 million over-the-air only households that were in affected markets.”

Some markets, including Oklahoma City, noted higher call volume than that average.

Most stations that chose to switch on Feb. 17 made the switch at midnight Tuesday night, though Some did the switch earlier in the day. They had stuck with the original date set for the DTV switch, before Congress delayed the national switchover to June 12.

The FCC today said there were 27,764 calls to its call centers Tuesday, when relatively few stations switched during the day. On Wednesday, when most viewers would have started wrestling with their TVs, the agency reported 25,320 calls.

Informal surveys conducted before Congress changed the official switch date to June indicated nine out of 10 TV industry workers opposed the delay. The Obama administration argued that lack of readiness in some markets and an ineffective coupon program to fund purchases of analog-to-digital converter boxes necessitated the delay. …

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/02/dtv_switch_help_calls_to_fcc_d.php

So instead of it being February 17, it ended up being February 17. Or June. Or maybe April, it depends on the individual station. "Stay tuned."

Yeah, that's not confusing…

I can't believe that the mobs weren't rioting in the street and burning buildings because they couldn't get analog channels.:D

The FCC is going to find it hard to come up with a reason to prevent the rest of the stations from doing an early transition before June.

Someone updated Wikipedia to add that NBC's Universal Sports is on 9-3, but I'm doubting the accuracy of it. Can anyone confirm or deny?

- Trip

Universal Sports Adds 19 Million Households (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174214-Universal_Sports_Adds_19_Million_Households.php?rssid=20100)
By Marisa Guthrie -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/16/2009 12:00:00 AM MT

"With the Vancouver Olympics less than a year away, Universal Sports is adding nearly 19 million households in 20 markets, increasing the network's distribution to more than 45 million homes."

"In most of the new markets including Denver, Portland, Ore., Salt Lake City and Miami, Universal Sports will be carried on the NBC affiliates' digital spectrum. But in several, including Reno, Houston, Wichita and Anchorage, the NBC affiliate opted out and a non-affiliate jumped in."



HD, we hardly knew ye...

Someone updated Wikipedia to add that NBC's Universal Sports is on 9-3, but I'm doubting the accuracy of it. Can anyone confirm or deny?
- Trip

Well, according to the article that Symbios posted, it looks like it is in the works. But no, it hasn't happened yet. Whoever made that Wikipedia entry jumped the gun.

Great, the picture on KUSA-DT is going to get even worse.

KUSA, where your picture is made up of four moving blocks…

(Really, besides Heroes and ER there's not much I watch on them anyway. I guess I'll just wait for the DVDs as even those will look better than what KUSA will after they add another subchannel, especially one as high-data rate as a sports subchannel will be…)

Thanks folks. That's disappointing. I've gone ahead and noted 9-3 on my website with a "Coming soon" note.

I'm just trying to figure out who the affiliates in Houston and Wichita are. Actually, I think the one in Wichita is KAKE as Gray airs it on non-NBC affiliate KOLO in Reno. But Houston is interesting, it could be one of their little independent stations or something.

- Trip

Someone updated Wikipedia to add that NBC's Universal Sports is on 9-3, but I'm doubting the accuracy of it. Can anyone confirm or deny?

- Trip

Comcast is adding NBC Universal Sports to channel 250 on March 3rd. KUSA's weather subchannel is on Comcast 249.

http://www.denvergov.org/Default.aspx?alias=www.denvergov.org/Telecom

Great, the picture on KUSA-DT is going to get even worse.

KUSA, where your picture is made up of four moving blocks…



Wow, I didn't think the picture could get worse than it already is, guess I was wrong!

Why wouldn't KUSA consider putting the sub channels on 20-2-3-4-... and leaving 9-1 at full bits for its flagship programming?

Why wouldn't KUSA consider putting the sub channels on 20-2-3-4-... and leaving 9-1 at full bits for its flagship programming?Because they don't want to degrade their HD broadcasts of Rockies' games. Oh, wait.....

FYI, KCEC has just switched to full power (900 kW) at Lookout.

Yes, now six times stronger here. Good solid signal.

Why wouldn't KUSA consider putting the sub channels on 20-2-3-4-... and leaving 9-1 at full bits for its flagship programming?

The argument is probably something like 9-1 will draw viewers to 9-2 and 9-3 and vice-versa.

The only thing I know is I won't be watching 9-anything, given how bad it already looks with a single 480i, mostly static subchannel.

I've said it before, but I think this all works in KUSA's favor as by the time the shutoff comes everyone will accept the garbage they're pumping out as "normal."

The argument is probably something like 9-1 will draw viewers to 9-2 and 9-3 and vice-versa.

The only thing I know is I won't be watching 9-anything, given how bad it already looks with a single 480i, mostly static subchannel.

I've said it before, but I think this all works in KUSA's favor as by the time the shutoff comes everyone will accept the garbage they're pumping out as "normal."

OK then here is how to do it:

Move the subchannels to KTVD 20 (or is it 19) and map them to 9-whatever like KMGH does with 7-27.

Problem solved. I will take my big buck consulting fee now. :D

Gotta love the law of unintended consequences.

DTV delay costs local company jobs

DENVER - The delay in the switch to digital television has cost a local company around 3,500 jobs.

Earlier this month, Congress decided to delay the switch from analog to digital from Feb. 17 to June 12.

Because of that delay, the FCC didn't need the help of independent contractors through Colorado-based Cloud 10.

The company had a contract with an FCC partner organization to staff a DTV help line. However, because of the staggered switch to DTV, the FCC says there are fewer calls for help, which means those workers were not needed. As many as a million calls a day were expected, but daily call volumes never topped 30,000, according to an FCC official.

The contractors, located around the country, were to work from home to staff the FCC call line at 888-CALL-FCC.

Cloud 10 declined to discuss the situation, citing a confidentiality clause in its contract.

An FCC official said additional agents will be added to cover expected increased in call volumes close to the final transition deadline of June 12.

Cloud 10 employees are not expected to be part of that future ramp-up. …

http://www.9news.com/money/article.aspx?storyid=110342&catid=344

Of course let's not forget those tower workers across the country who've undoubtedly been laid off as well (you know, like the ones scheduled to build KWGN/KDVR's new tower and tear down their rickety old one.)

Where is SCARE when you need them? :D

They could have had the other LOM towers down sooner if they would have fought against the delay. Sucks to be them :D

guys - what is the channel master line amp that you have mentioned in the past from solid signal? I'm going to try to improve one of my distributed signals that goes through several splitters, and the picture at the end of the line is really lousy. Thanks.

Universal Sports Adds 19 Million Households (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174214-Universal_Sports_Adds_19_Million_Households.php?rssid=20100)
By Marisa Guthrie -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/16/2009 12:00:00 AM MT

"With the Vancouver Olympics less than a year away, Universal Sports is adding nearly 19 million households in 20 markets, increasing the network's distribution to more than 45 million homes."

"In most of the new markets including Denver, Portland, Ore., Salt Lake City and Miami, Universal Sports will be carried on the NBC affiliates' digital spectrum. But in several, including Reno, Houston, Wichita and Anchorage, the NBC affiliate opted out and a non-affiliate jumped in."



HD, we hardly knew ye...

The GM of KUSA notified me about a month ago via email that Universal Sports was *in the works* for Denver, but wouldn't confirm where they will put them in the Digital spectrum (meaning on 9 or 20).

The first sign of trouble with the Analog switch...

Unhappy TV viewer (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/174518-KARE_Man_Shoots_TV_Over_Converter_Confusion.php)

My favorite line is the last one.

FYI, KCEC has just switched to full power (900 kW) at Lookout.

Noticeable jump here at 22 miles to the east-southeast as well. KCEC jumped from 75-77/100 to a rock-steady 92. It's now the highest reading of the bunch.

FYI, KCEC has just switched to full power (900 kW) at Lookout.

Great! Jumped from 50-60% to 80-90% here. However, I've noticed a couple of issues. I have an analog TV connected to a DTVPal, and the picture on 50-1 seems very dark on that TV, but it looks fine on my HDTV in the other room. Any idea why that is? 50-2 is just a black screen on both TVs.

The only thing I know is I won't be watching 9-anything, given how bad it already looks with a single 480i, mostly static subchannel.

I would imagine this would get better when they go full power. I get a fairly good signal from them now and don't notice any major problems. I get more annoyed with KWGN's audio static and often grainy SD picture quality. Still, in my opinion, it's much better than analog.

I've said it before, but I think this all works in KUSA's favor as by the time the shutoff comes everyone will accept the garbage they're pumping out as "normal."

Perfection is a myth! If you're expecting perfection in any aspect of life, you're bound to be disappointed.

Great! Jumped from 50-60% to 80-90% here. However, I've noticed a couple of issues. I have an analog TV connected to a DTVPal, and the picture on 50-1 seems very dark on that TV, but it looks fine on my HDTV in the other room. Any idea why that is? 50-2 is just a black screen on both TVs.

Not sure what the issue is with levels, but 50.2 is an encoder card failure. It will be a week or two before it's back. Anyone else having video level issues?

^^^ 50.1 is noticeably darker than all other channels in SD, whether ^^^
analog or digital.

I've had my ATSC tuner for about a month and a half now, getting the signal through my attic antenna. Up until last Wednesday or Thursday everything was coming in fine, then KRMA goes away - nothing on 6.1, 6.2, or 6.3. Tried rescanning and nothing. Called KRMA and they claim no changes made.

I got KRMA back after plugging in a cheap RF amplifier at the TV. I know amplifiers are supposed to be as close to the antenna as possible but I didn't feel like crawling around in the attic if I didn't have to. All three 6.n channels come in fine now.

I would imagine this would get better when they go full power. I get a fairly good signal from them now and don't notice any major problems. I get more annoyed with KWGN's audio static and often grainy SD picture quality. Still, in my opinion, it's much better than analog.


What he meant by static was that the weather channel programming is fairly static, i.e. it does not require a lot of bandwidth to encode since normally there is not a lot of movement in the picture. A sports channel is very different since it often contains a lot of fast, unpredictable movement which requires more bandwidth to produce an acceptable picture.

Going full power will make absolutely zero difference in the quality, unless you are on the border of good reception. In that case the type of degradation you see is very different from analog reception degradation. Degradation of a digital signal due to low signal results in audio dropouts and random block picture distortions. It does not lead to more white noise (i.e. static) in the audio or snowy pictures.

I will also note that I am not convinced that the bandwidth being used by the weather subchannel is the reason for the poor quality of sports events on the main subchannel (9.1). My reason for thinking this was reading about the quality of the summer olympics coverage on other NBC channels that didn't have weather subchannels or via cable that had direct studio feeds, etc. In all cases people were complaining about the same problems I was seeing on KUSA. I think that some of the problems may have already been present in the network feed to the stations.

Finally, It looks like KUSA has already reserved the bandwidth for the sports subchannel, although I don't know how long ago that change was made (which makes me think I should add bandwidth checking to my monitoring software). So what you see now on 9.1 probably will get no worse when they add the subchannel. Here is the bandwidth breakdown currently:

9.1: 12.5 Mbps
9.2: 2.4 Mbps
Stuffing (pid 1fff): 4.3 Mbps

The only comparison data I have is from 9/12/2008:

9.1: 15.2 Mbps
9.2: 3.0 Mbps
Stuffing (pid 1fff): 1.0 Mbps

Note that this data is bogus if KUSA is using statistical multiplexing, although I do not see any evidence of statistical multiplexing (significant changes in bandwidth allocation over time) currently.

jsmar:

Whenever you last sent me data on KUSA, the bitrates were:

9-1: 14.8 Mbps
9-2: 2.75 Mbps
0x1fff: 1 Mbps

- Trip

jsmar:

Whenever you last sent me data on KUSA, the bitrates were:

9-1: 14.8 Mbps
9-2: 2.75 Mbps
0x1fff: 1 Mbps

- Trip

I was using that data, but the data you quoted above was for the video only. I added the audio for each subchannel also (rounded to .1 Mbps). But, since we are talking primarily about video quality, the current numbers for video only (and I just realized that I made a small error in the 9.1 total bandwidth above, it should have been around 12.7 Mbps -- the numbers don't add to the same value due to roundoff errors and differences in the very low bandwidth occupied by the psip data) are:

9.1: 12.3 Mbps
9.2: 2.2 Mbps

KUSA added channel 9-3 this morning at around 9:15 am. Right now it is just placeholder, i.e. there is a screen that says "This is Channel 9-3. KUSA-HD. The future home of NBC Universal Sports".

Good antenna article from IEEE:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/feb09/7328

KUSA added channel 9-3 this morning at around 9:15 am. Right now it is just placeholder, i.e. there is a screen that says "This is Channel 9-3. KUSA-HD. The future home of NBC Universal Sports".

And I noticed this afternoon that they started sending EPG data for the schedule, even though the placeholder slide is still active.

KUSA added channel 9-3 this morning at around 9:15 am. Right now it is just placeholder, i.e. there is a screen that says "This is Channel 9-3. KUSA-HD. The future home of NBC Universal Sports".

Clueless idiots - all while 20-1 remains full bandwidth.

You know, for all those HD "My 20" programs.

Sad that KUSA's HD newscasts look better on 20-1 than 9-1.

Sooo much stuff to sift through!

I live in Loveland almost to the corner of Eisenhower and Wilson in a one story house. Anybody have a good recommendation for a rooftop VHF/UHF antenna or are the stations still farting around with signal levels, which tower to broadcast off of (PBS, for instance), etc.? My backyard neighbor has a two story house directly to the south of me, and I don't know if it would block line of sight or not.

I don't want to have it installed (I'm not a handyman) and then have to switch it out soon.

Would a rotor be necessary or recommended? We do get a lot of high winds every so often off the lake and being close to the foothills.

Thank you!

what is the channel master line amp that you have mentioned in the past ...

Sorry about the delay, Scott. Guess we all sort of overlooked your question :confused: .

Before opting for an amp, double-check the splitter(s), cabling and connectors to be certain these components aren't causing the issue. An amp can't make up for a short, poor conductance or part failure.

Channel Master usually has good products, but not always. Regardless of brand, a good distribution amp:

* Has a noise figure of 3 dB at most.
* Can handle frequencies from 50 MHz to 900 MHz at a minimum.
* Offers gain that's well matched to the situation for which it's intended.

The last point is important for avoiding tuner overload. Roughly 10 dB should be fine for one and sometimes two splits; 24 dB would be too much in the same spot, but dandy just ahead of an eight-way split.

I've read posts from folks who've obtained fine results from low-noise distribution amps they picked up on fleabay for just a few bucks. Just avoid anything for which you can't find any specs at all. That usually means there's nothing to brag about.

Anybody have a good recommendation for a rooftop VHF/UHF antenna...?

Hi, Dan. Yeah, most stations are still at reduced power and won't be able to do much more until the analog shutdown :mad: . Fortunately, you're in a good location for signals from the south. TVFool for your location (reports attached) shows there isn't a big difference between the Denver signals you can get now versus what they'll be like after the transition.

Winegard's new HD-769x line of antennas for channels 7-69 seem well-built, and they've made lots of people very happy so far. Best gain for the money in the series seems to be the HD-7696P. I'd recommend that one. A rotor won't be needed unless you want to turn the antenna around to pick up the Cheyenne stations. The antenna is powerful enough for one and perhaps two TVs without needing amplification, particularly if you're not interested in Cheyenne broadcasdts.

The relative height of the neighbor's roof won't block signals if the antenna mast is mounted on a tripod at the peak of your roof. Atop a couple of 10-foot steel mast sections steadied by guy wires, the antenna will be high enough "see" the Denver signals easily.

Hi, Dan. Yeah, most stations are still at reduced power and won't be able to do much more until the analog shutdown :mad: . Fortunately, you're in a good location for signals from the south. TVFool for your location (reports attached) shows there isn't a big difference between the Denver signals you can get now versus what they'll be like after the transition.

Winegard's new HD-769x line of antennas for channels 7-69 seem well-built, and they've made lots of people very happy so far. Best gain for the money in the series seems to be the HD-7696P. I'd recommend that one. A rotor won't be needed unless you want to turn the antenna around to pick up the Cheyenne stations. The antenna is powerful enough for one and perhaps two TVs without needing amplification, particularly if you're not interested in Cheyenne broadcasdts.

The relative height of the neighbor's roof won't block signals if the antenna mast is mounted on a tripod at the peak of your roof. Atop a couple of 10-foot steel mast sections steadied by guy wires, the antenna will be high enough "see" the Denver signals easily.


Thanks for the info., Don!

Do you have any suggestions for high quality, well-shielded outdoor grade RG6 coax. and a 2-way splitter? I have two TV's. One already has a built-in HD tuner, the other will need an OTA HD converter box.

Thanks again!

Dan, that antenna is most easily purchased online, and the folks that sell it won't steer you wrong on coax and splitters, either. Here are some sources:

Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com)

Stark Electronic (http://www.starkelectronic.com/)

Summit Source (http://www.summitsource.com)

Warren Electronics (http://www.warrenelectronics.com)

For outdoor use, select coax in the black outer jacket. Seems counter-intuitive, but UV degrades white coax insulation much more quickly.

KMart in Longmont, Colorado NorthWest Corner 21st and Main received a new shipment of Zenith DTT901 CECBs ~ 11 AM 25 Feb 2009

Sooo much stuff to sift through!

I live in Loveland almost to the corner of Eisenhower and Wilson in a one story house. Anybody have a good recommendation for a rooftop VHF/UHF antenna


Hi Dan,

I would recommend a Channel Master 4228HD, because it isn't as big and ugly as the HD-7696P:eek: and its not as affected by the wind and hail. I have a CM 4228(old) on my house with an eve mount kit which looks better then a tripod with guy wires. The 4228HD is good for UHF to 60 miles and the High VHF is good to 45 miles, and don't let anyone tell you it won't pick up the high V's. Like I said I have the old version and I can get KQCK-DT 11-1 (RF11) off of the side JUST FINE, so whenever transition happens I have no doubt that 7, 9, 12 will come in just fine also. The reason CM redesigned the 4228 is to pick up the High VHF channels better.

Thanks to everybody thus far.

Any opinions on the Winegard HD-7696P vs. the Channel Master 4228HD for a single story house near Eisenhower Blvd. and Wilson in Loveland? With high wind concerns.

Thanks!

Learned something interesting....

Comcast had a 10/month for 12 month 30 channel basic cable deal that I got so that my internet would go down 20/month (go figure). Anyway the cable guy was chatty and told me that its more than the 30 channels and he only had to remove the filter to get it to work. Experimentation shows channels into the 120's (blocks are skipped so I think its more like 90 or so) AND that it is a mix of analog and HD. Just some of the local stations AND only subchannel 1.

So I am set until they FINALLY get it together and go full power.

Comcast had a 10/month for 12 month 30 channel basic cable deal that I got so that my internet would go down 20/month (go figure).
Can you share more about this deal? This plan would be great for us.

Can you share more about this deal? This plan would be great for us.

I think that deal is no longer offered. It was Comcast taking advantage of the digital transition (the original transition date). I think the deal lasted until last Friday.

Using a digital QAM tuner, you can get all unencrypted digital channels from Comcast. This includes digital versions of every channel in the limited basic package, plus HD locals and a handful of other channels (part of the digital starter package). Most, if not all, of these channels are outside the traps for expanded basic service, so everyone who gets basic cable and who has a digital QAM tuner can get them. The problem is that the channel numbers are all over the place (mostly in the 79-120 range) and tend to change over time.

Learned something interesting....

Comcast had a 10/month for 12 month 30 channel basic cable deal that I got so that my internet would go down 20/month (go figure). Anyway the cable guy was chatty and told me that its more than the 30 channels and he only had to remove the filter to get it to work. Experimentation shows channels into the 120's (blocks are skipped so I think its more like 90 or so) AND that it is a mix of analog and HD. Just some of the local stations AND only subchannel 1.

So I am set until they FINALLY get it together and go full power.What and where is this filter of which you speak? I have Basic cable and I think I can get all of the channels that you've mentioned so does that mean I don't have a filter?

Dan, that antenna is most easily purchased online, and the folks that sell it won't steer you wrong on coax and splitters, either. Here are some sources:

Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com)

Stark Electronic (http://www.starkelectronic.com/)

Summit Source (http://www.summitsource.com)

Warren Electronics (http://www.warrenelectronics.com)

For outdoor use, select coax in the black outer jacket. Seems counter-intuitive, but UV degrades white coax insulation much more quickly.

I would not suggest Summit Source as I purchased a bunch of 3ft RG6 with crimped end cables from them, They ALL fell apart and Summit only offered an apology, no replacements. I had to replace both ends on each cable.

I would recommend a Channel Master 4228HD...

... which is not the antenna in your photo, Tim. You have the original 4228, and it was built so well that I probably would have mentioned it to Dan if CM hadn't discontinued it and started shipping the Chinese-made 4228HD instead. The consensus of opinion among posters familiar with both is that the newer version won't be nearly as durable as the original. Meanwhile, one hears good things about the build quality in the W-G line. Ugly? Well, OK; guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

I salute your foresight in buying the tried-and-true 4228 before its discontinuation. :cool:

[QUOTE=Don_M;15923297 Ugly? Well, OK; guess that's in the eye of the beholder. QUOTE]

There is not much that is uglier than the 4228 when it comes to antennas. I have an origianl 4228 in the box. I have not put it up because it is so ugly... go figure. OTH The Winegard has grace, and the way the sun glints off of it, quite beatiful (to me). But you are right, that kind of thing is relative! I guess one just has to be into antennas.
:)

BTW, I was looking for surface area and wind loading info on both the Winegard and the 4228. I could not find anything, yet anyway. I would wager that there is not that much difference in total surface area. If rotor loading in turning torque is the only consideration , sure the 4228 has to have an advantage. I am trying to decide between the Winegard HD-7696P and 4228 after transition myself. As my old VU-210 (something like 13.5 feet long 2-69, 110" wide) came down in winds a month or so back, I am looking for something that will have a better chance of survivng long term. I am leaning towards the Winegard, even though I have a 4228 just sitting here. I have considered the 7698P as well, but the trade offs for size and cost versus performance just don't seem to be worth it for my situation.

One other thing regarding an eave mount versus a tripod and guyed mast. I think the person asking the original question had a concern about a house that was two stories versus his one story house and between him and the towers. I wonder if he could get any antenna high enough using an eave mount with an unguyed mast to clear that obstacle. I seriously doubt it! I had a tripod on the peak of my two story house with 35 feet of mast and two sets of guy ropes. It kept that VU-210 up there for over seven years. It was a thing of beauty, you could see it for blocks away. I sure do miss it.

There is not much that is uglier than the 4228 when it comes to antennas.The mice in my attic don't complain about how it looks...

The mice in my attic don't complain about how it looks...

Have you asked them??
:)

The 4228 has this 1950s super industrial sort of drab look to it... of course it is built well and form follows function... but it is ugly (to me)
:)

The point is, (that was tongue in cheek)...I will put up whatever works the best for what I need. I am not running a beauty contest...

The filter is in the green neighborhood box. After he told me that (and said he probably shouldn't have) he said they do physical audits of these filters to make sure the filters didn't fall out somehow

As a Channel Master distributor I put up my 4228 in the middle of June 2008 and have installed 6 of them for customers. I have a friend that lives 2 blocks away and when the tornado went by Milliken last spring we had 3" hail. His 4228 survived with no broken parts and few miner adjustments. Where the big and graceful as some like to say:rolleyes: were beat into scrap metal, there are 4 within 4 block of my house.

The 4228HD parts are manufactured in China and than shipped hear and assembled.

I have installed 4 of the 4228HD's and yesterday changed my antenna to an HD. (looks even better;)) I think it even weighs less, I will fine out for another post. So far I have not had anyone tell me they didn't wont the 4228HD and that they would like one of those "big and graceful":rolleyes:things.

As a Channel Master distributor I put up my 4228.....I have installed 4 of the 4228HD's


SideBar - Ever heard of someone using say 3" PVC pipe for the mast, maybe embedded in concrete? How tall without guy-wires?

SideBar - Ever heard of someone using say 3" PVC pipe for the mast, maybe embedded in concrete? How tall without guy-wires?

No, I use EMT (conduit) its stronger and dosen't break down in sun light, besides you can use a smaller size. On mine if you looked at the picture below the rotator I have 6' of 1 1/2" EMT and above I have a 5' of 1 1/4" EMT. I had to beef up my eve mount.(picture)

For customers on a basic install I use 7' of 1" EMT with an eve mount and have had no problems, even at 20-30 miles per hour there is very little movement.

As a Channel Master distributor .

As a CM ditributor you have a vested interest! That is fine, as long as it is recognized!
The real question is if the 4228HD is really the best solution after the conversion for those that need VHF Low band gain. Vhf Low specs are not that great.

Any results that we have gotten on UHF are not applicable.

I never have never had a tornado here though I have had to replace my roof due to 2 inch plus hail damage, but the (less than optimal design) RS VU 210 survived.
Maybe I was lucky.. it would have been the first time ...for luck that is!

As an aside and answering the PVC question..sort of:

I once put up a CB antenna using PVC. I used 2.5" for 30' anchored at about 15' at my deck. I went up another 10 feet using the stuff that fit into the lower section (was it 1.75"??) and guyed it at three places. I then put an 18' CB antenna on top of it. It stayed up for a couple of years. Worked great, until...The PVC does break down, and my antenna did indeed come down.

Bottom line is, I would never tell anyone to use PVC mast for anytihng that they want to last. Exposed to the elements, especially UV, it becomes brittle and WILL break!

In my experience, the bottom line is having a strong base. I had a little VU-90 on ten feet of mast on an eave mount. I had the mount backed up by 2X4s..over enginered..I thought. It ripped itself off of my house and cost me lots to fix the damage during a storm. The 30 foot higher VU-210 on the tripod and guyed...was still standing. Just an isolated case, but it happened to me!

Each installation is unique, of course. Do what you need to do! Just keep in mind physics... an eave mount seperated by a foot or so with a 10 foot mast and antenna and rotor
... well the lever moment gets interesting!

Phil

As an aside and answering the PVC question..sort of:

I once put up a CB antenna using PVC....Worked great, until...The PVC does break down, and my antenna did indeed come down.



If I did use 3" PVC, I would "plant" it into 4' Earth, and fill it with concrete, and reduce size at top of mast....maybe stick in metal pipe at top.

thanks,

PS: Black or White PVC is used in plumbing vent pipes, and they say it is UV resistant...they say.

This morning (28 Feb) between 7 and 8 AM, KUSA appeared to be running the Universal Sports on 9-2 and some other sports-oriented content on 9-3. By 9 AM, things were back to the usual -- 9-2 was weather, and 9-3 was running the UniSports promo.


Jim McCauley

If I did use 3" PVC, I would "plant" it into 4' Earth, and fill it with concrete, and reduce size at top of mast....maybe stick in metal pipe at top.

thanks,

PS: Black or White PVC is used in plumbing vent pipes, and they say it is UV resistant...they say.

Mine was white. Even with it tied to the house and having two sets of guy wires, it flexed enough between the guys to make it shatter. It had definitely become brittle. It came down in the summer, so I don't think it was temperature related. I don't know for sure what caused it to deteriorate. I figured that UV was a good candidate though. I guess "UV resistant" may not mean that it is not at all affected by UV over time.

BTW, I went back and checked some logs I kept. That thing was really up for a bit over four years.

I would guess that if you did it the way you are descibing it would be pretty strong. It may be difficult to fill it with concrete uniformly. I have no guess how high you could go unguyed though. How high do you want to go with it? If you do it, let us know how it works for you. This is a an interesting concept. It would be lots cheaper than a free standing tower.

Phil

It may be difficult to fill it (PVC Pipe) with concrete uniformly. ...How high do you want to go with it? If you do it, let us know how it works for you.

SideBar - 4" steel poles used for BUD Dishes (http://www.free4allsatellitetv.com/my-dishs.html) were sometimes filled with concrete, which made them rigid.

If I did it, I would use 3" or 4" PVC, with a single rebar through PVC pipe, and not exceed 20'. But, kept in mind your 4' or greater underground hole would require several hundred pounds of concrete, and this project would take several weeks to complete since one needs firm poles going up to fill it.

I have only two OTA stations, and both from same direction, but one of them is weak...I'm going to place antenna at higher elevations first to determine what height is required...and then decide if a concrete pole or using a dead tree would make a location. If I can get a good signal from house location, I'll use concrete pole idea, otherwise, I'll have to run a 100' cable to the dead tree, after I remove most of its limbs.

SideBar - 4" steel poles used for BUD Dishes (http://www.free4allsatellitetv.com/my-dishs.html) were sometimes filled with concrete, which made them rigid.

If I did it, I would use 3" or 4" PVC, with a single rebar through PVC pipe, and not exceed 20'. But, kept in mind your 4' or greater underground hole would require several hundred pounds of concrete, and this project would take several weeks to complete since one needs firm poles going up to fill it.

I have only two OTA stations, and both from same direction, but one of them is weak...I'm going to place antenna at higher elevations first to determine what height is required...and then decide if a concrete pole or using a dead tree would make a location. If I can get a good signal from house location, I'll use concrete pole idea, otherwise, I'll have to run a 100' cable to the dead tree, after I remove most of its limbs.

I had the same plan, using a dead tree, but fortunately the wind blew it down before I mounted an antenna on it. I guess the roots rotted after a few years and the tree blew down.

The real question is if the 4228HD is really the best solution after the conversion for those that need VHF Low band gain. Vhf Low specs are not that great.

Phil

Phil,
As far as I know there will be no stations down on the low VHF band. The low v's are subject to alot of interference, thats why 2, 4, 6, are staying in the UHF band.
The closest low VHF station will be North Platte, NE on channel 2 and Grand Junction, CO also on 2. So I don't think we have anything to worry about.

Phil,
As far as I know there will be no stations down on the low VHF band. The low v's are subject to alot of interference, thats why 2, 4, 6, are staying in the UHF band.
The closest low VHF station will be North Platte, NE on channel 2 and Grand Junction, CO also on 2. So I don't think we have anything to worry about.

Sorry, I mispoke (wrote). I meant VHF HIGH band. Channel 7 and 9 will be there and channel 13 for KBDI IIRC. (also KKTV on 10 for anyone interested)

Phil

I have only two OTA stations, and both from same direction, but one of them is weak...I'm going to place antenna at higher elevations first to determine what height is required...and then decide if a concrete pole or using a dead tree would make a location. If I can get a good signal from house location, I'll use concrete pole idea, otherwise, I'll have to run a 100' cable to the dead tree, after I remove most of its limbs.

Where do you live and how far away from the TV towers are you? PVC is not meant to hold anything structural the vent pipes sticking out of our rooves are just sticking up doing nothing but venting. I'm sorry but I would not use it, I would use EMT (electrical conduit) you can still fill it with concrete if you like. I have included a picture of mrradiohead's antenna, I helped him install it. We started with 2-10' stickes of EMT and one coupler and a bag of concrete and one 4" off set. The EMT is about 18" in the ground. With it attached to the house we gained 15' of hight that didn't have to be guy wired.

Sorry, I mispoke (wrote). I meant VHF HIGH band. Channel 7 and 9 will be there and channel 13 for KBDI IIRC. (also KKTV on 10 for anyone interested)

Phil

Last summer I and mrradiohead was able to receive KKTV-DT for 2 hours in the mornings hours, it happened a few different times. And KQCK 11 also comes in with no problems. And now that I changed to the 4228HD it should be even better. I think that the DB gain on the HD is at least dubble of the older ones. Again I don't think the 4228 or 4228HD people have anything to worry about.

This morning (28 Feb) between 7 and 8 AM, KUSA appeared to be running the Universal Sports on 9-2 and some other sports-oriented content on 9-3. By 9 AM, things were back to the usual -- 9-2 was weather, and 9-3 was running the UniSports promo.


Jim McCauley

9-4 anyone? :rolleyes:

I've got a Channel Master 4221 (4 bay version of the 4228) in my attic and will be adding a Winegard 1713 to pick up 7, 9 and 13 when they switch their digital stations.

I would question how well the 4228HD will do on 7, and I'm not sure I could get it into my attic anyway.

... will be adding a Winegard 1713 to pick up 7, 9 and 13 when they switch their digital stations.

I would question how well the 4228HD will do on 7, and I'm not sure I could get it into my attic anyway.

Bet it would probably do fine here. As shipped, the 4228HD would probably fit through the scuttle, but that would mean doing the final assembly in the attic.

Unless your home has stucco or aluminum siding, a tile roof, lots of metal in the attic, or you're near the bottom of an arroyo like Tollgate Creek, a 1713 is overkill in Aurora. We're near Parker and Quincy; I use a hand-made DB4 clone for UHF and an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for VHF high, both in the attic. With no amplification, the antennas put out enough signal for at least two tuners. The Y5 provides flawless video on 7, 9 and 12 analog now, and does a respectable job with analog FM as well. It has half the gain (~7 dB) of the 1713 (~10 dB). The boom is half as long as well; I wouldn't want to maneuver a 1713 around roof trusses :eek: .

I've got a Channel Master 4221 (4 bay version of the 4228) in my attic and will be adding a Winegard 1713 to pick up 7, 9 and 13 when they switch their digital stations.

I would question how well the 4228HD will do on 7, and I'm not sure I could get it into my attic anyway.

Hi Chris,

My attic access is 28 1/2" x 21 and the 42228HD fit just fine on the diagonal, with no disassembly.

As far as how well the 4228HD does on the high V's you will have to read my other posts.

The 4221 I have not talked about, but if you look close at the picture I put on post #5454 the 4221 is pointing to the north. It picks up KGWN 5, KQCK 11 (RF11), KLWY 27, KFCT 22.

Last summer I and mrradiohead was able to receive KKTV-DT for 2 hours in the mornings hours, it happened a few different times. And KQCK 11 also comes in with no problems. And now that I changed to the 4228HD it should be even better. I think that the DB gain on the HD is at least dubble of the older ones. Again I don't think the 4228 or 4228HD people have anything to worry about.

Have you seen any numbers on the 4228HD, as in gain versus frequency, front to back ratio versus frequency, beamwidth versus frequency, etc. I have looked, but can't seem to find that data.

Phil

Have you seen any numbers on the 4228HD, as in gain versus frequency, front to back ratio versus frequency, beamwidth versus frequency, etc. I have looked, but can't seem to find that data.

Phil

Phil,

This is from my CM contact, this is all he could find for specs.

...how far away from the TV towers are you?

Nearest one you can pickup with rabbit ears, but farest one is about 80 miles away....with both coming from same direction.

PVC is not meant to hold anything structural

Sidebar - Having mass (concrete with rebar) is what gives the structural strength...PVC is only used to hold the mass.

I need a stand alone setup, without guy wires....and it may have a 15' concreted PVC pole, and at this pole's top point, a metal band collar around it that would attach to a swinging pole that goes about 15' above it and below it. Hence, you could pivot this swinging pole and fix antenna when needed from ground level.

PS: I may use 8" sewer PVC pipe for this pole, if the cost is reasonable, and city will sell a stick of it.

Phil,

This is from my CM contact, this is all he could find for specs.

Great information. Thanks!
It looks like something additional for the High VHF might be needed in fringe or problem areas.

Phil

Nearest one you can pickup with rabbit ears, but farest one is about 80 miles away....with both coming from same direction.
I need a stand alone setup, without guy wires....and it may have a 15' concreted PVC pole, and at this pole's top point, a metal band collar around it that would attach to a swinging pole that goes about 15' above it and below it. Hence, you could pivot this swinging pole and fix antenna when needed from ground level.

PS: I may use 8" sewer PVC pipe for this pole, if the cost is reasonable, and city will sell a stick of it.

Just curious, why not just buy a few pieces of pre-fab tower. A base piece and two ten foot sections would not cost that much and it would sure be lots easier. You would still want to pour a base slab and dig the hole for it, but still it would seemingly be much less in labor and time (and likely material costs when all is said and done)!

Phil

Nearest one you can pickup with rabbit ears, but farest one is about 80 miles away....with both coming from same direction.



Sidebar - Having mass (concrete with rebar) is what gives the structural strength...PVC is only used to hold the mass.

I need a stand alone setup, without guy wires....and it may have a 15' concreted PVC pole, and at this pole's top point, a metal band collar around it that would attach to a swinging pole that goes about 15' above it and below it. Hence, you could pivot this swinging pole and fix antenna when needed from ground level.

PS: I may use 8" sewer PVC pipe for this pole, if the cost is reasonable, and city will sell a stick of it.

I know of a guy in the midwest that has a 4228 up on a 50' tower and a rotor with an amp. He constantly gets stations out to 200 miles. So my best advice is the hight is the key. Digital signals travel in some what of a straight line and the further away from the tower you are the higher the signal is.

There must be a pile of engineering work going on this weekend! I have seen at least half of the current DTV lineup from this area fiddling with their signals. 7 and 9 are down from what I normally see them; 6 is really goofed up. I typically get 5 from Cheyenne with a CM 4-bay and they have been off most of yesterday and today. 2, 4, 12, 11, 20 are currently at 100%. Seems like they started working on 59 Ion this afternoon, as I lost their signal also.

There must be a pile of engineering work going on this weekend! I have seen at least half of the current DTV lineup from this area fiddling with their signals. 7 and 9 are down from what I normally see them; 6 is really goofed up. I typically get 5 from Cheyenne with a CM 4-bay and they have been off most of yesterday and today. 2, 4, 12, 11, 20 are currently at 100%. Seems like they started working on 59 Ion this afternoon, as I lost their signal also.

When you see problems crop up from that many different stations you should first question your own setup. FYI, I haven't seen any problems with the stations you mentioned, and none of them have gone off the air.

When you see problems crop up from that many different stations you should first question your own setup. FYI, I haven't seen any problems with the stations you mentioned, and none of them have gone off the air.

And that's exactly what I did. In my setup, I had both CM antennas feeding through a Leviton line amp. I hadn't had any problems until today. I've come to the conclusion that someone cranked up their power and the system started to overload, which can affect some or all of the incoming signals. I completely eliminated the line amp and everything is back to normal, with the exception of 6, which is marginal without any kind of signal amplification.

I am kind of curious who may have tweeked their power this weekend. Hmmmm.....

Wow, I go to Mexico for week and this thread grows by almost 4 pages. Lots of news (KCEC goes full power; KUSA adds ANOTHER sub-channel) and discussion.

Someone asked about coax; Lowes sells a decent quad-shielded RG-6 coax with compression fit connectors on most lengths (if you don't want to go through the trouble and considerable expense to be able to do your own compression fit connectors).

Gray PVC conduit makes for a great 2 to 5 foot long antenna pole as long as you only use it in your house or attic. I have several in use in my attic. Advantages in that environment include light weight for easy handling and minimal load on roof members, and practically zero potential for signal reception interference.

The discussion of 4" concrete filled steel pipes for BUDs was a painful reminder of the fact that I still have one (just the post) in the ground in a corner of my yard 15 years later. The prior owner had a BUD that was removed before I bought the house, but the pole was left in the ground. I'd like it out of there, but the physical effort is more than I and my even older friends could handle. It needs to be hand dug out as it is right in the middle of a bunch of underground utility runs (I had the guy come out and mark the underground utilities around it and the post is in the middle of a spider web of utility runs). For the past 15 years it has simply been disguised and utilized as a bird house and bird feeder.

As far as wind load on CM4228s goes, they have a relatively high wind load rating. Facing the wind they are basically a sail. There was a lot about this in the AVS thread on antennas, but it was 3 to 5 years ago. I think some internet searches should turn up the wind load specs for the 4228, at least for the original version. The new one is lighter (IIRC they substituted some aluminum for some of the original all steel construction) and is probably not as durable as the original, but the wind load spec should be about the same because the geometry is about the same. Yagi style antennas and combos have much lower wind load specs than a 4228; however, a strong wind from just the correct angle might damage almost any outdoor consumer antenna.

Tornado stories are never a good example of what works. I sat out a multiple tornado night (one less than a block away) in Tulsa many years back and saw the bizarre results. That twister a block away tore down several blocks of a residential street; one side of the street only. At one point it almost completely demolished a house, killing the resident inside, while the other adjacent houses in the twister's path just had roof damage and others along the way only had damage to the roofing materials. Our wind storms here tend to have a broader swath of consistent wind pressure (I've lost a couple of 6' cedar fences over the years).

KDVR's all excited about their new news studio:

DENVER - A brand new home for FOX 31 News is on the air.

When you watch FOX 31 News Good Day Colorado, FOX 31 News at 5:00 p.m. and Fox 31 News at 9:00 p.m., it's coming to you from our brand new high tech studio.

The new set, which sits in the middle of our newsroom, debuted Monday. It took a little less than three months to transform the newsroom into a news studio.

The studio features six high definition cameras, thousands of LED lights capable of producing 256 colors for the new studio, spectacular photos of Colorado landmarks, and hundreds of miles of cable underneath the floor connect to make everything work.

There are dozens of high frequency fluorescent lights which are the latest in green tech. One thousand watts can brighten the whole place, compared to 10,000 watts in the old studio.

Besides the place where the main anchors sit, there is a platform with steps for reporters and sports, and a special set for interview guest.

You will also see our new Storm Force Center which is equipped with the newest, state-of-the-art equipment for weather forecasting.

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-newset-030209,0,4166249.story

Of course guess what's missing?

That's right, any mention of when those "six high definition cameras" might lead to KDVR broadcasting the news in anything other than SD…

KDVR's all excited about their new news studio:



Of course guess what's missing?

That's right, any mention of when those "six high definition cameras" might lead to KDVR broadcasting the news in anything other than SD…I'm wondering if they are waiting for the merger with channel 2 to complete and then have a 'new' HD news broadcast on both channels, similar to what 9 and 20 have.

I emailed KDVR this morning, and just got this back:

We will go HD by the end of the month. We are building the control room now.

Bet it would probably do fine here. As shipped, the 4228HD would probably fit through the scuttle, but that would mean doing the final assembly in the attic.

Unless your home has stucco or aluminum siding, a tile roof, lots of metal in the attic, or you're near the bottom of an arroyo like Tollgate Creek, a 1713 is overkill in Aurora. We're near Parker and Quincy; I use a hand-made DB4 clone for UHF and an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for VHF high, both in the attic. With no amplification, the antennas put out enough signal for at least two tuners. The Y5 provides flawless video on 7, 9 and 12 analog now, and does a respectable job with analog FM as well. It has half the gain (~7 dB) of the 1713 (~10 dB). The boom is half as long as well; I wouldn't want to maneuver a 1713 around roof trusses :eek: .


Thanks, I had been looking for a YA-6713 because it would have been much easier to maneuver, but it was discontinued. I'll check out the AntennaCraft.

Dang!

Sometime last week, while I was away, something changed in either how KBDI identifies itself or in what information the DirecTV guide has about it. My bet is DirecTV.

Background:
I have an unsubscribed HR10-250 receiver, still hooked to a DTV sat, used only for OTA. It thinks my account is in good standing (it was three+ years ago!) and is willing to let me record and set up seasons passes and such. Great except when the guide messes up.

What happened yesterday:
When I tried to tune 12-1, I get "looking for signal". I could tune 12-2 and 12-3 just fine, just not 12-1. A rescan got me an extra 12-1 entry, which has no guide. So I have a 12-1 with guide info that I can't tune, and I have a 12-1 with no guide info that I can tune. Useless for automated recordings. It's a mystery to me why the box thinks these are distinct.

I have a situation like this with KRMT, but I actually CARE about KBDI! I would like KDEN to be listed as 25-1 instead of 29-3 as well, if I had my wishes granted.

Could DirecTV have "updated" their KBDI info to point to RF 13 early? What are other people seeing? Who else uses a DTV receiver for OTA?

BTW, DTV has other known problems with their OTA info and guide. If you wondered why I didn't subscribe ... Of course, that means no real standing to complain, either.

Rob T

I had been looking for a YA-6713 because it would have been much easier to maneuver, but it was discontinued. I'll check out the AntennaCraft.

YA-6713 was discontinued more than a year ago. The Y5 has similar dimensions and performance specs. Probably not as well-built as the 6713 was, but that's not a significant factor for attic installations.

I didn't hop on the YA-6713 and the PR-9018 for UHF in time. My bad: The combination would have been the perfect setup here.

Dang!

Sometime last week, while I was away, something changed in either how KBDI identifies itself or in what information the DirecTV guide has about it. My bet is DirecTV.

Background:
I have an unsubscribed HR10-250 receiver, still hooked to a DTV sat, used only for OTA. It thinks my account is in good standing (it was three+ years ago!) and is willing to let me record and set up seasons passes and such. Great except when the guide messes up.

What happened yesterday:
When I tried to tune 12-1, I get "looking for signal". I could tune 12-2 and 12-3 just fine, just not 12-1. A rescan got me an extra 12-1 entry, which has no guide. So I have a 12-1 with guide info that I can't tune, and I have a 12-1 with no guide info that I can tune. Useless for automated recordings. It's a mystery to me why the box thinks these are distinct.

I have a situation like this with KRMT, but I actually CARE about KBDI! I would like KDEN to be listed as 25-1 instead of 29-3 as well, if I had my wishes granted.

Could DirecTV have "updated" their KBDI info to point to RF 13 early? What are other people seeing? Who else uses a DTV receiver for OTA?

BTW, DTV has other known problems with their OTA info and guide. If you wondered why I didn't subscribe ... Of course, that means no real standing to complain, either.

Rob T

Sounds like an issue with DirecTV's OTA channel guide. There is a thread at dbstalk.com in the DirecTV programming section where OTA guide issues can be reported. I have no idea how feasible it is to get these problems fixed, though.

At least you have the option to scan for channels. The newer HD DVR's from D* will only tune to channels in the guide and cannot scan for others.

The discussion of 4" concrete filled steel pipes for BUDs was a painful reminder of the fact that I still have one (just the post) in the ground in a corner of my yard 15 years later.


SideBar - I'm still using mine, 10' BUD, and watching Denver 8 (http://www.callnps.com/channel_listing.htm) stations with S-Video to 32" Sony Bravia KDL-32L4000. There is good video to be seen on these uplinked stations....it looks darn good when these stations are feeding clean 480i feeds...they still have old footage/etc that gets shown, but its nice to see their higher quality feeds.

There is still alot to watch up there, free and pay...BUDs are still around...

I wish I had filled the pipe I used to put up my tall 12' (along side the house). It was a learning curve :D I have a 10' at ground level.

SideBar - I'm still using mine, 10' BUD, and watching Denver 8 (http://www.callnps.com/channel_listing.htm) stations with S-Video to 32" Sony Bravia KDL-32L4000. There is good video to be seen on these uplinked stations....it looks darn good when these stations are feeding clean 480i feeds...they still have old footage/etc that gets shown, but its nice to see their higher quality feeds.

Don't do SD anymore. Everything I deal with is HD.

There is still alot to watch up there, free and pay...BUDs are still around...

There most certainly is, and I do not pay. The VCII stuff all vanished.

Too bad Mr Cuban didn't really stick to his promise not to encrypt the two HDNet feeds. A majority of the BUDheads that are left would have gladly sent him a yearly subscription fee. I do not have cable/DBS and prefer the original feed, before cable/DBS macroblocks it. I think he got forced into it.

So my TiVo moved guide data to frequency 13 instead of 38.

13 is (obviously) not tunable but has guide data. 38 is tunable and does not....

What's going on!

So my TiVo moved guide data to frequency 13 instead of 38.

13 is (obviously) not tunable but has guide data. 38 is tunable and does not....

What's going on!

Maybe the FCC database can shed some light:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=kbdi

Apparently the provider of D*'s guide data jumped the gun since KBDI can't move to channel 13 until KRDO (Springs) analog vacates the channel. I'd suggest you contact D* and let them know.

So my TiVo moved guide data to frequency 13 instead of 38.

13 is (obviously) not tunable but has guide data. 38 is tunable and does not....


Do you actually see this on the output of your Tivo? My HR10-250 doesn't show me the RF channel it is trying to tune, but I have the same symptoms.

Looks like Universal Sports is finally up for good:)

Looks like Universal Sports is finally up for good:)

Remind me why that would be a good thing… HD quality of 9-1 continues to go into the toilet, but 20-1 remains full bandwidth to show, uh, 9 News in HD?

KUSA ran a promo on their 10:00 PM news tonight for 9-3. It stated it was also on Comcast 250.

Remind me why that would be a good thing… HD quality of 9-1 continues to go into the toilet, but 20-1 remains full bandwidth to show, uh, 9 News in HD?

I guess I don't see those kind of problems. My HD LCD TV looks great, sure on occasion there is a little glitch. It still lookes better then Dish did and its FREE. I'm not paying for TV any more and my family (this is the best part) does'nt miss it.:)

Oh and its another channel we are going to love watching the winter Olympics on.

I guess I don't see those kind of problems. My HD LCD TV looks great, sure on occasion there is a little glitch. It still lookes better then Dish did and its FREE. I'm not paying for TV any more and my family (this is the best part) does'nt miss it.:)

Oh and its another channel we are going to love watching the winter Olympics on.

Some people (myself not included) are more sensitive to HD picture quality than others. While others wined about the quality of the Super Bowl on KUSA, no one in my family noticed anything wrong at all. If we can't see any difference, we can't complain. Technically each added sub-channel limits bandwidth for the main HD channel, so the added compression is most definitely there. However, many people either don't see it or don't care enough about it, so what incentive do networks have to maintain maximum picture quality when they can potentially make better use of the bandwidth by adding additional channels?

I saw posted at dbstalk that NBC Universal Sports is being forced on some NBC affiliates. It's possible that KUSA had no choice here, though I can't say with any certainty.

so what incentive do networks have to maintain maximum picture quality when they can potentially make better use of the bandwidth by adding additional channels?


Congress will breathe fire down their necks if they don't have quality TV...it has been the broadcasters who have complained to Congress/FCC about those DBS/Cable companies degrading their signal over the years.

It was the Broadcasters promise to bring us the good stuff with the switch to digital...they said this would help them fight off loss revenue from Cable Channels....etc...etc...higher quality pictures/sound.....they of all people can't degrade the signal.

/////////

United States: Recent FCC Actions Affecting Cable Television Systems, Programmers, And Broadcast Stations

04 January 2008 (http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=55742)

In this client advisory, Thelen reviews several recent FCC actions affecting cable television systems, cable programmers, and broadcast stations:

...
...
...

4. Carriage of television signals without material degradation and availability of television signals after the DTV transition are defined, and comments are sought on application of the rules to retransmission agreements, channel placement, and reformatting.


4. Carriage of television signals without material degradation and availability of television signals after the DTV transition are defined, and comments are sought on application of the rules to retransmission agreements, channel placement, and reformatting.

The FCC released its Third Report and Order and Third Further Notice of Proposed Rule Making on cable television system carriage of digital television broadcast signals (FCC 07-170). The Order adopts rule amendments to define the requirement that broadcast television signals be carried without material degradation. The Order also imposes signal carriage obligations to enable cable subscribers with analog television sets to continue to be able to use those sets for three years after the DTV transition on January 17, 2009.

With regard to the material degradation standard, the FCC determined to continue imposing a comparative standard with two requirements; first, that the broadcast signals not be carried in a lesser format or lower resolution than any other signal on the system; and, second, that the cable signal when compared to the broadcast signal not be perceptibly different to the viewer. The FCC also continued the requirement that HD signals be carried in HD. The FCC decided not to adopt its proposals to require carriage of all bits contained in the primary video stream and program related content, and decided not to impose a mandatory negotiation process for cable television systems that do not wish to carry all such bits. The Further Notice of Proposed Rule Making seeks comment on whether the material degradation standard should apply only to must-carry stations or also to stations, carried under retransmission consent agreements.

With regard to carriage of broadcast signals after the DTV transition, the FCC requires cable television systems with analog channel service to convert broadcast digital television signals to analog for delivery to analog subscribers. For all-digital cable systems, the FCC requires cable television operators to provide subscribes who have analog television sets with a converter box that enables the subscriber to view digital broadcast signals on their analog television sets. These requirements will be in effect for three years, until January 17, 2012. While the requirements are in effect, both the analog and digital versions of television broadcast signals can be counted toward the 1/3 cap on must-carry obligations. The Further Notice of Proposed Rule Making seeks comment on how the channel placement rules should apply to the analog versions of digital television signals, and how digital signals with a 16:9 aspect ratio should be re-formatted for viewing on analog sets with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

It was the Broadcasters promise to bring us the good stuff with the switch to digital...they said this would help them fight off loss revenue from Cable Channels....etc...etc...higher quality pictures/sound.....they of all people can't degrade the signal.

/////////

United States: Recent FCC Actions Affecting Cable Television Systems, Programmers, And Broadcast Stations

04 January 2008 (http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=55742)

The quoted discussion has to do with the cable companies' obligation to present subscribers with quality signals from local broadcasters, and absolutely nothing to do with over-the-air video or audio quality.

No doubt the FCC has addressed OTA separately, but given what we already know about the "quality" of the cablecos' HD OTA retransmissions, it's probably quite hazardous to hold one's breath waiting for the agency to start fining broadcasters or networks heavily over minor issues like transient microblocking... particularly during a bad recession.

The quoted discussion has to do with the cable companies' obligation to present subscribers with quality signals from local broadcasters, and absolutely nothing to do with over-the-air video or audio quality.


I've been out the loop for several years, but followed this quaility issue years ago...the in essence was as I stated above....quality OTA and on Cable/DBS.

That said, I came across this article:

FCC Diversity Plan Could Hurt HD Picture Quality (http://www.tvpredictions.com/2008/11/fcc-diversity-plan-could-hurt-hd.html)

...
...
The proposal requires that the S Class of stations lease back the spectrum to allow the station owner to broadcast 6 hours of HD content a day. Therefore, a station can sublease as much spectrum as they want to as many entities as they can so long as they get enough spectrum back to broadcast HD 6 hours a day. The proposal does not define what an HD broadcast must consist of in terms of bandwidth or bit rate. It is therefore possible for a station to sublease several subchannels so long as they retain enough spectrum to send out some sort of HD broadcast even if it is a pixelated mess that is almost unwatchable.
...
...


Hence, via deduction, broadcasters can't degrade their signal unless FCC allows it.

but given what we already know about the "quality" of the cablecos' HD OTA retransmissions

When I followed this topic years ago....Cable/DBS were allowed to degrade until full Over The Air Digital comes about....sometime this summer, in other words.

I'm not current, but this is the way it was....further, years ago, HBO (et.al) got on Cable/DBS to clean up their signal quality...I think HBO-HD is using 14 mbps signal rate, but I'm not current now since MPEG IV is being used via DBS I think.

No doubt the FCC has addressed OTA separately,


After Googling...here's current FCC mandate as of September 12th, 2007

FCC: Cable may degrade local HD signals (a little) (http://dtvfacts.com/latest/517/cable-hd-quality/)

Cable TV subscribers who watch local channels’ HD broadcasts may be short-changed on signal quality, under an FCC action adopted Tuesday. While the ruling “provides cable operators with flexibility,” according to the commission, consumers who have splurged on home theater systems won’t be cheering a decision that can lead to diminished picture quality.

Cable operators will be required to carry local stations’ high-definition telecasts in HD after the shutdown of analog TV broadcasts on February 17, 2009. But the FCC will not require cable systems to pass through the entire HDTV signal as broadcast over the air. Instead, according to an FCC statement, “cable operators must carry broadcast signals so that the picture quality is at least as good as the quality of any other programming carried on the system.” In other words, cable companies can downgrade quality on local stations, but they aren’t allowed to make the locals look worse than the cable networks they carry.

The decision can be seen as a compromise between demands from broadcasters, who want cable companies to provide “all content bits” to their subscribers, and cable companies, who face capacity constraints on their systems because of the huge amounts of data that must be transmitted to provide HD programming.

...
...

Note: FCC reveresed it position later

/////////

United States: Recent FCC Actions Affecting Cable Television Systems, Programmers, And Broadcast Stations

04 January 2008 (http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=55742)

In this client advisory, Thelen reviews several recent FCC actions affecting cable television systems, cable programmers, and broadcast stations:

...
...
...

4. Carriage of television signals without material degradation and availability of television signals after the DTV transition are defined, and comments are sought on application of the rules to retransmission agreements, channel placement, and reformatting.


4. Carriage of television signals without material degradation and availability of television signals after the DTV transition are defined, and comments are sought on application of the rules to retransmission agreements, channel placement, and reformatting.

The FCC released its Third Report and Order and Third Further Notice of Proposed Rule Making on cable television system carriage of digital television broadcast signals (FCC 07-170). The Order adopts rule amendments to define the requirement that broadcast television signals be carried without material degradation. The Order also imposes signal carriage obligations to enable cable subscribers with analog television sets to continue to be able to use those sets for three years after the DTV transition on January 17, 2009.

With regard to the material degradation standard, the FCC determined to continue imposing a comparative standard with two requirements; first, that the broadcast signals not be carried in a lesser format or lower resolution than any other signal on the system; and, second, that the cable signal when compared to the broadcast signal not be perceptibly different to the viewer. The FCC also continued the requirement that HD signals be carried in HD. The FCC decided not to adopt its proposals to require carriage of all bits contained in the primary video stream and program related content, and decided not to impose a mandatory negotiation process for cable television systems that do not wish to carry all such bits. The Further Notice of Proposed Rule Making seeks comment on whether the material degradation standard should apply only to must-carry stations or also to stations, carried under retransmission consent agreements.

With regard to carriage of broadcast signals after the DTV transition, the FCC requires cable television systems with analog channel service to convert broadcast digital television signals to analog for delivery to analog subscribers. For all-digital cable systems, the FCC requires cable television operators to provide subscribes who have analog television sets with a converter box that enables the subscriber to view digital broadcast signals on their analog television sets. These requirements will be in effect for three years, until January 17, 2012. While the requirements are in effect, both the analog and digital versions of television broadcast signals can be counted toward the 1/3 cap on must-carry obligations. The Further Notice of Proposed Rule Making seeks comment on how the channel placement rules should apply to the analog versions of digital television signals, and how digital signals with a 16:9 aspect ratio should be re-formatted for viewing on analog sets with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

I guess I don't see those kind of problems. My HD LCD TV looks great, sure on occasion there is a little glitch. It still lookes better then Dish did and its FREE. I'm not paying for TV any more and my family (this is the best part) does'nt miss it.:)

Oh and its another channel we are going to love watching the winter Olympics on.

If you think KUSA-DT looks good now, it's because you didn't have the ability to see it back in the "good old days" around 2004.

If anyone remembers how good Leno's backdrop used to look compared to the slightly fuzzy look it has now, that alone would be proof.

Hence, via deduction, broadcasters can't degrade their signal unless FCC allows it.

Degrade their signal from what? The horrid 480i many broadcasters currently send, let alone HD?

Degrade their signal from what? The horrid 480i many broadcasters currently send, let alone HD?

Dever 8, via C-Band for Cable Headends, looks quite good with S-Video.

It represents these stations digital signal, then uplinked in another digital format, and then cable headends pass these transmisions to their viewers.

Hence, my C-Band receiver is converting this uplinked digital signal to a S-Video (analog) format for my 32" Sony LCD...and it looks dam good when these broadcasters are putting out the good stuff....first class NTSC studio quality, so to speak. These broadcasters still have "old stuff" in their closets, but when they put out the good stuff, it is good.

Hence, Denver OTA broadcasters can deliver, but they still are using old equipment, "reels," etc., and network feeds that are not upto 480i's ability.


PS: I know about Degraded Broadcast Services, and Cable Companies decreasing bandwidths.

If you think KUSA-DT looks good now
...

I have watched it via C-Band, which is an uplinked satellite transmission for Cable Headends, and it looks good to me when they are feeding it quality stuff.

Its their digital signal...so go figure...are you getting a repeater transmission of it?

So my TiVo moved guide data to frequency 13 instead of 38.

13 is (obviously) not tunable but has guide data. 38 is tunable and does not....


BTW, I let KBDI know this was affecting some of their viewers. Might not matter, but ...

I have watched it via C-Band, which is an uplinked satellite transmission for Cable Headends, and it looks good to me when they are feeding it quality stuff.

Really? KUSA-DT is feeding an HD signal via C-Band?

If so, it is probably a raw HD feed rather than one compressed to make room for (as of last week) two subchannels, including one fast-action sports one.

...Hence, my C-Band receiver is converting this uplinked digital signal to a S-Video (analog) format for my 32" Sony LCD...

Really? KUSA-DT is feeding an HD signal via C-Band?

If so, it is probably a raw HD feed rather than one compressed to make room for (as of last week) two subchannels, including one fast-action sports one.If he is watching it via S-Video, how would it be HD?

If he is watching it via S-Video, how would it be HD?

I stated before,

SideBar - I'm still using mine, 10' BUD, and watching Denver 8 stations with S-Video to 32" Sony Bravia KDL-32L4000. There is good video to be seen on these uplinked stations....it looks darn good when these stations are feeding clean 480i feeds...they still have old footage/etc that gets shown, but its nice to see their higher quality feeds.

I was just watching early news on KMGH SD feed, and it was dam good....considering this is a HD feed, it has to look a pinch better on their 1080i feed.

As I have stated before, I know differences between Crapola and Quality feeds....and in SD format via C-Band, it looks like studio quality NTSC on these Denver 8 stations, when they put it out.