I am aware of the must-carry provisions, at least in a general sense. What I meant, and perhaps I wasn't terribly clear, is that if KQDK became a translator for a full power station, KQCK, it would facilitate cable carriage of KQCK via KQDK. As a stand alone Class A station, KQDK would not qualify for must-carry and KQCK would probably still be considered an out-of-market station.

I also understand the bumping of an LP vs. a Class A. I disregarded that as an issue since, unlike the clogged up East, we have some room for channels out here.

The other issue that I failed to mention about KQDK and a Class A status is, if it's still a valid requirement (I did do a "little" research but not enough to ensure certainty), that it shouldn't qualify since it does not produce 3 hours of local programming each week. Would that preclude KQDK from qualifying for Class A status?

KQCK will be regarded as an out of market station regardless of what kind of low-powered signal KQDK is. (If they change the city of license to Loveland or something, then they'd have must-carry.) To the best of my knowledge, the FCC does not grant cable carriage to translators, LPTV, or Class A stations unless they're in a rural area and serving a local interest, etc etc. I remember reading the rule on it though I cannot remember its number.

As to your second question, if they're not airing any local programming, they could very well be in danger of losing Class A status. I'd be interested to find out what they're claiming as "local programming."

- Trip

Interesting artifact during last night's severe thunderstorms:

Around 10:25 PM KUSA briefly started to give some sports highlights but the rain was heavy enough to interrupt the microwave studio <-> transmitter link.

The signal from Lookout itself never went away but the blockies were transmitted perfectly. :D

I'd be interested to find out what they're claiming as "local programming."
- Trip
I've seen a local weather forecast on KQCK/KQDK now and again, but that's the only content that could possibly be deemed local. (They don't even have any local advertisers, not that that would count.) The spot is clearly pre-recorded and lasts maybe 30 seconds. The station would need to air it more than twice every hour, 24/7, to fulfill the minimum with the forecast alone. I rather doubt they're doing that much -- I've seen the spot no more than a half-dozen times in the past year and a half or so.

On 7.1 KMGH-DT we had pixelation ~ 5:35pm... early in the World News with Charlie Gibson. Any ideas why? It cleared up later in the program.

Just as an aside, once again I've gone over a week without seeing KRMA-DT.

What I notice, of course, is I really don't miss it at all.

Up here in Fort Collins this morning, I just picked up RF 17 on a scan, mapping to channel 4. The signal is just below the level I can lock onto reliably, and I don't have call letters, either. Does anyone know what and where this is?

My TiVo HD picked up some 'funny' signals:
RF(13) 13-3, 13-4, 13-5 ? ? ? really (13)12.1... KBDI-DTV ?
RF(43) 43-3, 43-4, 43-5, 43-6 ? ? ? really (43)59.1... KPXC-DT ?

My TiVo HD picked up some 'funny' signals:
RF(13) 13-3, 13-4, 13-5 ? ? ? really (13)12.1... KBDI-DTV ?
RF(43) 43-3, 43-4, 43-5, 43-6 ? ? ? really (43)59.1... KPXC-DT ?

Just as an aside, once again I've gone over a week without seeing KRMA-DT.

What I notice, of course, is I really don't miss it at all.

I have not had time to watch anything lately but I noticed last night that I could not get KRMA. Just wondering whats going on with them. Sorry if this has been talked about recently -- I've been away from this thread for a while.

As I mentioned I've been away from this thread and not watching any TV most of the summer but I noticed last night I was getting KGWN off the back of my antenna (pointed toward LM). I used to only get an occasional unwatchable signal. Did their power change since the switch?

As I mentioned I've been away from this thread and not watching any TV most of the summer but I noticed last night I was getting KGWN off the back of my antenna (pointed toward LM). I used to only get an occasional unwatchable signal. Did their power change since the switch?

Don't know about that since I don't keep up with KGWN, but since they broadcast on RF 30, I think it probably has more to do with KLPT-LP no longer broadcasting on analog 30.

Just as an aside, once again I've gone over a week without seeing KRMA-DT.

I have not had time to watch anything lately but I noticed last night that I could not get KRMA.

It's only about two and a half weeks until they're supposed to be up full power with their new antenna, so you should see a huge improvement soon.

Up here in Fort Collins this morning, I just picked up RF 17 on a scan, mapping to channel 4. The signal is just below the level I can lock onto reliably, and I don't have call letters, either. Does anyone know what and where this is?

I think the only full power channel in the country that transmits on RF17 and was previously on channel 4 for their analog service is KLBY from Colby, KS. That's pretty far, but not out of the question. As far as low power stations go, I don't think there are any in a 200 mile radius that fit those parameters.

As I mentioned I've been away from this thread and not watching any TV most of the summer but I noticed last night I was getting KGWN off the back of my antenna (pointed toward LM). I used to only get an occasional unwatchable signal. Did their power change since the switch?

I think they bumped their power at the transition, but not by a huge amount. I get their signal reasonably well off the back of my CM-4228, and I watch their NoCo newscast, but I get messed up reception all the time. I'm tempted to point an antenna up their way, but I don't know how badly I want to do that yet.

Rob T

KGWN has not changed their ERP. Back in September 2006, they filed to reduce both their antenna height and ERP. See https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=415392&formid=301&q_num=5460://

I emailed them and asked them why they wanted to reduce coverage. Like talking to a wall.

Last week, I emailed the GM of KMGH and asked why KZCO was still broadcasting in analog on channel 27 since it is carried as a subchannel on KMGH and when KZCO was going to go digital on its own on channel 17. I'd like to see the analog shut off so I can see if I can receive KLWY on RF 27. Again, like talking to a wall.

As I mentioned I've been away from this thread and not watching any TV most of the summer but I noticed last night I was getting KGWN off the back of my antenna (pointed toward LM). I used to only get an occasional unwatchable signal. Did their power change since the switch?

I have been getting KGWN for the last two mornings in the mid 60's. I am west of the Springs and according to TVFOOL I am 146 miles from them, and with a theoretical 500 ft tower I should be at -19db NM. I think atmospheric conditions have been pushing their signal down the front range lately. I checked this morning and I don't see them now.

Has anyone been having trouble with KRMA's aspect ratios lately?

Several weeks ago it appeared that they might be gearing up for HD and began broadcasting signals that would fill the screen with appropriate aspect ratios even if they were SD.

However lately I've been noticing that they seem to have broadcast some programs where they'd seem to stretch an SD to HD and then crop it to 4:3. At other times we've gotten SD 4:3 with side bars but the only way to display it with the correct aspect ratio results in the entire picture (16:9) letterboxed in a 4:3 mask.

Anyone else having problems with this?

Anyone else having problems with this?

Not really. They've had some aspect ratio issues for the past 3 weeks or so, but I haven't seen what you're describing. I've seen SD content stretched to widescreen, and I've occasionally seen center cut widescreen content but not letterboxed. This week they showed Nova and Nova Science NOW as compressed 16:9.

Now that I think of it, I remember seeing Washington Week in postage stamp format a couple of times, but I think that might have been more than a month ago.

Whatever the case, I'm kind of assuming that they will get things straightened out after they switch to their new antenna next month, but who knows?

It's a lot less annoying that those incessant weather alerts on KUSA and KTVD with their squish-o-vision. Grr!! I'm not sure who here coined that term, but it's very appropriate.

Well, it looks like KDEO-LP's days on RF23 may be numbered. KCDO just got their construction permit approved to move their antenna to the Fort Morgan area and increase power to 1000 kW on RF23. This means that they will reach the Denver area (although that may just be theoretical, because if people have a directional UHF antenna pointed towards the west they may not pick up KCDO).

I don't know how the "must carry" rules work, but unless this will allow KCDO to force Denver area cable channels to carry them I don't see this as a profitable move on their part.

The funny thing is that this application was submitted over a year ago. I'm not sure I understand how expiration dates are set, but the expiration date for this permit is 08/11/09, i.e. just about two weeks from now. I would have thought that expiration dates are set based on the grant date, not the submit date.

I assume they will be able to get an extension, but I wonder if they actually have the resources to built this facility.

The aspect ratio variations on KRMA for the past month have been curious and annoying, sometimes bizarre, and seem to vary from day to day and program to program. I have OTA, Comcast HD (cable box), and Comcast Analog (TV tuner). I can usually find one of these with a correctable aspect ratio, not always filling the screen even for programs originally widescreen. OTA is the most variable and takes constant fiddling with the aspect ratio button. Curiously, the Comcast HD feed seems to have stabilized recently to a more reliable full widescreen picture. I'm hoping their Comcast HD feed version is going to end up on OTA soon.

Thanks for the confirmation that something is up. I thought I might be going nuts.

Last night, for example, the News Hour came in a 16:9 ratio but letterboxed in a 4:3 window. This is after being "full screen" 16:9 for the last couple of weeks.

I run OTA through a Dish DTVPal DVR and no combination of aspect controls between my Sony XBR and the DVR could result in a correct picture that filled the screen. I also have Dish SD and turned to that and the picture was just the same.

I have also experienced the day-to-day and program-to-program variation.

As others said, I hope that they settle this down next month when they're supposed to turn on their new antenna and (hopefully) return to actual HD broadcast.

Ditto on the "squish crawls" being run by most of the majors.

I noticed last night that KLPD-LD added HSN to their broadcast.
Their list of subchannels now includes:

28-1 Home Shopping Network
28-2 MTV tr3s (Spanish/English mix of videos and reality shows)
28-3 Tv fe usa (Spanish/Religious)

Regarding KRMA, allow me to share an e-mail exchange I had with them yesterday.
Here is my original e-mail:
"Hello. I receive HD ATSC signals over the air out here in Green Valley Ranch, in NE Denver. Because the networks have almost no viewable content this summer ("Reality Entertainment" is ironically neither) we have been rediscovering KRMA and PBS shows, but with some technical frustration.
Why are some of your programs, promos and previews in a 16 x 9 aspect ratio while the rest of your programs, promos and previews remain in a 4 x 3 aspect ratio?
I have to tell you, it is very frustrating to keep switching the channel's picture mode back and forth from one program to the next. When are you just going to adopt a 1080i 16 x 9 signal like the other major stations in this market? I understand your power and antenna position are both going higher next month -- will that help the situation?"

Here is Viewer Service Representative Susannah D. Frank's response:
"Rocky Mountain PBS is not broadcasting HD at this time. The station will upgrade the digital signal to 1080i during October. When Rocky Mountain PBS began simulcasting the analog channel and channel 6-1 programming 24 hours a day in December 2008 the station was no longer able to broadcast in HD. Now that the analog signal has been discontinued and we are no longer simulcasting, equipment will be set up so that Rocky Mountain PBS will begin broadcasting at 1080i.
On Friday, July 10th Rocky Mountain PBS began broadcasting 16:9, unless the program is not formatted in 16:9. We were broadcasting 4:3 before the change. While not a perfect solution engineering has suggested that OTA viewers set their TV display mode to stretch or wide, which will fill your screen and minimize the black border. The stations plans to go to full power on August 10th will not change the aspect ratio. Have a great day and thank you for supporting Rocky Mountain PBS.
Best regards,
Susannah"

In other words, the KRMA engineers say stretch-o-vision is good enough -- shut up and enjoy the aspect ratio "diversity" they offer, at least until October. ;)

In other words, the KRMA engineers say stretch-o-vision is good enough -- shut up and enjoy the aspect ratio "diversity" they offer, at least until October. ;)

Uh-huh. The power boost will coincide the beg-a-thonpledge drive that begins this weekend... and they'll be able to sneak in at least one more beg-a-thonpledge drive between August and October. :mad:

Thanks, Juan. That's good stuff.

Uh-huh. The power boost will coincide the beg-a-thonpledge drive that begins this weekend... and they'll be able to sneak in at least one more beg-a-thonpledge drive between August and October. :mad:

Thanks, Juan. That's good stuff.

I visited the KRMA Panorama forum on their DTV transition plan at:http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434/UPDATE:-Our-DTV-transition-plan-

In the point of view 25 section, I found:
GE
Wednesday, July 22, 2009 › 9:17pm

To KRMA Staff:

Is the upgraded higher antenna and increased power still on schedule to activate on August 10, 2009?

and
Linda in Viewer Services
Friday, July 24, 2009 › 8:56am
We've verified with the Engineering Department that we'll have full power (1MW) on Monday 8/10. The antenna will be shipped 7/30, then put up on Mount Morrison 8/1. Installation will proceed and the turn-on date is 8/10.
So, it sounds like nothing will be changed for viewers THIS weekend. It looks like we won't be able to see a change until a week from next Monday on August 10, 2009.

I visited the KRMA Panorama forum

Is it bad that the first two times I read this sentence, I read it as "KRMA Paranoia"?

- Trip

So, it sounds like nothing will be changed for viewers THIS weekend. It looks like we won't be able to see a change until a week from next Monday on August 10, 2009.

It will be entertaining to see if I get KRMA back after the transition or if something has happened to block the signal I get from Morrison…

I read the KCDO application to move to the Ft. Morgan area. The gist of the reasoning for the application is, IMO, to claim continuing financial hardship if they aren't allowed to get their signal into metro Denver. One point the application makes is that KCDO is not presently carried "by any satellite operator". KCDO has been on E* for quite some time (channel 8216). Another point is that "Neilsen reports no viewers for KCDO". I don't know if that means Neilson doesn't bother reporting anything for KCDO or if Neilsen actually has data that shows KCDO viewership is zero. Especially if it's the latter, I have to wonder why E* is paying (I'm assuming the feed isn't free) a station for carriage that no one is watching.

So, KCDO makes false statements in its application to move to the Ft. Morgan area. KQDK applies for a Class A license knowing that they don't qualify due to lack of local programming. Does the FCC really check anything out on these applications?

Regarding KRMA, allow me to share an e-mail exchange I had with them yesterday.

Here is Viewer Service Representative Susannah D. Frank's response:
"Rocky Mountain PBS is not broadcasting HD at this time. The station will upgrade the digital signal to 1080i during October.

KRMA Viewer Services keeps forgetting to add the year after the month when they talk about HD transmission. First it was July, then August or September, now October is the newest bait. If they can just hang on a few more months after that it will be a full year since RMPBS has shown anything in HD.

Their aspect ratio problem is getting worse. Tonight the Charlie Rose show switched back and forth between 4:3 and 3:3 every few seconds. It will be interesting to see if the rerun tomorrow afternoon on KBDI has the same problem.

There seems to be no pattern to the OAR problem. Sometimes HD programs are 16:9 (in 480i of course), sometimes 4:3 letterbox. Just pot luck. I've given up watching most of their stuff except the talking head programs where the picture doesn't much matter.

One point the application makes is that KCDO is not presently carried "by any satellite operator". KCDO has been on E* for quite some time (channel 8216).

If Wikipedia is to be believed, E* added KCDO on December 31, 2008. The application was filed on or before the window which closed on June 20, 2008. At the time, the statement was accurate.

Another point is that "Neilsen reports no viewers for KCDO". I don't know if that means Neilson doesn't bother reporting anything for KCDO or if Neilsen actually has data that shows KCDO viewership is zero.

Viewership was zero at the time. I read where a study was commissioned and of the several hundred people called, six claimed to watch KCDO. When asked what they watched on KCDO, four gave the names of programs that KCDO did not carry.

I very much doubt that Dish is paying for the feed. I have to imagine that KCDO is feeding them fiber or something like that.

- Trip

Hello all--I found this forum through a link on an Amazon webpage review of dtv antennas. I am a college student in Fort Collins and am looking to buy an antenna but have no clue which one is best suited to the area.

I was wondering if anyone in Fort Collins had any suggestions? I've read lots of reviews for different antennas but realize your location has as much to do with reception as the antenna. I apologize if this isn't the proper place in the forum to ask this!

Thanks for your help!
Renee

Has anyone been having trouble with KRMA's aspect ratios lately?


Yes - I think I've seen every aspect-ratio error I can imagine now. Very sad.

Hello all--I found this forum through a link on an Amazon webpage review of dtv antennas. I am a college student in Fort Collins and am looking to buy an antenna but have no clue which one is best suited to the area.

I was wondering if anyone in Fort Collins had any suggestions? I've read lots of reviews for different antennas but realize your location has as much to do with reception as the antenna. I apologize if this isn't the proper place in the forum to ask this!

Thanks for your help!
Renee

Since you mention you are a college student, I'm guessing that you are renting an apartment or house, rather than owning your residence. This may restrict what your choices are. The best chance for good reception is installing an outdoor antenna on the roof or other suitable location, but that may be difficult or impossible depending on your situation.

So, if you are renting a house, do you have access to an attic where you can put a larger antenna inside? If so, do you also have a way of getting coax from there to your TV? If your only option is installing an indoor antenna in the room near the TV then your choices become much more restricted. So first, let us know what your living situation is, and how much flexibility you have with regards to installing an antenna.

Has anyone been having trouble with KRMA's aspect ratios lately?

Several weeks ago it appeared that they might be gearing up for HD and began broadcasting signals that would fill the screen with appropriate aspect ratios even if they were SD.

However lately I've been noticing that they seem to have broadcast some programs where they'd seem to stretch an SD to HD and then crop it to 4:3. At other times we've gotten SD 4:3 with side bars but the only way to display it with the correct aspect ratio results in the entire picture (16:9) letterboxed in a 4:3 mask.

Anyone else having problems with this?

I get something different for 6-1 depending on which tuner I'm using to interpret the signal. Kind of tells you that KRMA doesn't know how to code their data properly, which is not a good sign for the immediate future. 6-3 comes in steady on all tuners as 480i video in 4X3 mode.

Since you mention you are a college student, I'm guessing that you are renting an apartment or house, rather than owning your residence. This may restrict what your choices are. The best chance for good reception is installing an outdoor antenna on the roof or other suitable location, but that may be difficult or impossible depending on your situation.

So, if you are renting a house, do you have access to an attic where you can put a larger antenna inside? If so, do you also have a way of getting coax from there to your TV? If your only option is installing an indoor antenna in the room near the TV then your choices become much more restricted. So first, let us know what your living situation is, and how much flexibility you have with regards to installing an antenna.

Thanks for getting back to me! I am living in a third floor studio apartment this year, so I unfortunately don't have access for installing an outdoor antenna. Obviously with a one-room studio apartment, my size limitations are a bit limited, but I'm willing to give anything a try.

I wanted to try OTA reception first because I am reluctant to shell out the money to pay for cable television this year. If I can find an antenna that will be cheaper overall than cable, that would be ideal. If not, I will just have to figure something else out. Thanks so much for your suggestions.

Renee
stangbullitt

Thanks for getting back to me! I am living in a third floor studio apartment this year, so I unfortunately don't have access for installing an outdoor antenna. Obviously with a one-room studio apartment, my size limitations are a bit limited, but I'm willing to give anything a try.

I wanted to try OTA reception first because I am reluctant to shell out the money to pay for cable television this year. If I can find an antenna that will be cheaper overall than cable, that would be ideal. If not, I will just have to figure something else out. Thanks so much for your suggestions.

Renee
stangbullitt

Does your third floor unit have a balcony? If so, what direction does it face?

Does your third floor unit have a balcony? If so, what direction does it face?

No, I don't have a balcony, but I have two windows, one which I expect to face south and the other either east or west. (I haven't moved in yet).

stangbullitt,

No guarantees, but I can get the major networks (2,4,7,9,20,31) from Denver using an indoor Radio Shack amplified rabbit ears/UHF loop in decent weather from my 2nd floor. You will have to carefully place the antenna and adjust it depending on what you can see. If possible, you should place the antenna in the window facing south, and point it broadside toward very slightly west of due south. This might work especially if there are no higher buildings just south of you.

The advantage of trying this is that Radio Shack allows you to return their stuff for a full refund if it doesn't work well.

Obviously a bigger VHF-UHF antenna in the attic would work better if that's an option.

Do you have an HD TV, or a converter box to use with an older analog TV? I've found the converter boxes to be a little easier to please.

Good luck!

stangbullitt

If you don't mind "art work" on your ceiling, you can mount an outdoor antenna inside. Just use an eye screws and strong string or fishing line (monofilament) to position it. I don't think I would use wire. It could affect the antenna reception

Here's what an eye screw is

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=37&cs=169&cm=7&cd=1746

Try to use long but thin eye screws and get them into the ceiling joists. The wood behind the drywall that holds up the ceiling. You can find joists by tapping on the drywall. I find tapping with my finger tip the best. Some people like to use a knuckle. When the sound changes to a less hollow sound, you've located the joist.

You remember to fill in those small holes in the ceiling with spackle when you finish your lease.

It will be entertaining to see if I get KRMA back after the transition or if something has happened to block the signal I get from Morrison…

If you can receive (15)14.1 KTFD-DT (Spanish) you should not have any problem receiving KRMA from their new antenna and transmitter after 10 Aug.

Their new antenna will be above KTFD's antenna on the same tower. The old KRMA antenna has been on the 'ice-bridge' close to the ground and behind some buildings and hills.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas on this problem. I have an amplified attic mounted antenna which gets a strong signal on all the stations on lookout Mt. and use to get channel 4 just fine. Lately the signal on that station is very weak and won't even register on any of my three TVs. The other stations are excellent and I have not changed the antenna. Is there something about cbs4 frequency that I don't understand or are they just weak . I am in Lakewood and interested in any opinion on the matter. This is important because someday there may be something worth watching on that channel.

I live in east Denver (near 6th & Monaco) and have no problems with 4.1 on an unamplified attic antenna in a single story house. One would think you should have a somewhat better signal since you're closer.

Another reason to want 4.1 is I believe they carry the TVGOS (OTA schedule service) and if you get a device that can read and display TVGOS you'd need the CBS signal.

stangbullitt

If you don't mind "art work" on your ceiling, you can mount an outdoor antenna inside. Just use an eye screws and strong string or fishing line (monofilament) to position it. I don't think I would use wire. It could affect the antenna reception

Here's what an eye screw is

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=37&cs=169&cm=7&cd=1746

Try to use long but thin eye screws and get them into the ceiling joists. The wood behind the drywall that holds up the ceiling. You can find joists by tapping on the drywall. I find tapping with my finger tip the best. Some people like to use a knuckle. When the sound changes to a less hollow sound, you've located the joist.

You remember to fill in those small holes in the ceiling with spackle when you finish your lease.


Thank you PAW and bill-fc for your suggestions--I really appreciate it!

Bill--glad to hear that you have been able to get the major network stations from Denver. I think I will try a Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna first to see how that works, especially since I'd be able to return it. My TV is HD, but I don't need the analog-to-digital converter box for it. I was looking online at some HD antennas--do they receive standard signals any better? I don't really care whether I get HD or not.

PAW--thanks for the suggestion of using an outdoor antenna inside. I'm certainly not averse to hanging an antenna from my ceiling if that's what will work!!

Appreciate all your help--once I get stuff set up, I'll let you know how things work!

Renee
stangbullitt

If Wikipedia is to be believed, E* added KCDO on December 31, 2008.

It has also been carried by DirecTV since at least 2/1/09 on CH 3.

stangbullitt --

There's no difference between an HD antenna or an old analog one. Just make sure you get rabbit ears plus a UHF loop, and it must be amplified so it will have to be plugged into a wall socket. You'll have to play around with the postitioning to find the "magic" spot.

stangbullitt --

There's no difference between an HD antenna or an old analog one. Just make sure you get rabbit ears plus a UHF loop, and it must be amplified so it will have to be plugged into a wall socket. You'll have to play around with the postitioning to find the "magic" spot.

OK, great, thanks for the clarification!

I live in east Denver (near 6th & Monaco) and have no problems with 4.1 on an unamplified attic antenna in a single story house. One would think you should have a somewhat better signal since you're closer.

Another reason to want 4.1 is I believe they carry the TVGOS (OTA schedule service) and if you get a device that can read and display TVGOS you'd need the CBS signal.

What is your TVGOS device and what version of TVGOS does it run?

I ask because my version 7 Panasonic DMR-EH50 gets 4 Denver channels in the grid (KRMA, KCNC, KMCH, KDVR) and resets the channel lineup about 48 hours after I edit it (behavior that did not happen under the analog feed). I confirmed the behavior with another V7 TVGOS owner. I'd like to confirm if it's just a V7 issue (which has a hard limit on the number of channel) or if Macrovision/Rovi has just screwed up the TVGOS OTA lineup for Denver. They recently added 3 CBS stations to the default OTA channel lineup - Grand Junction, Nebraska, and South Dakota but not KWGN, KUSA, KTVD, and KBDI.

Which really baffles me since the Neb. and SD CBS affiliates have their own dummy zipcodes for the DTVPal converter and broadcast the TVGOS signal. Why would they be added to the Denver feed? Go figure!

What is your TVGOS device and what version of TVGOS does it run?

...


The only TVGOS device I have is a Dish DTVPal DVR. The unit is at firmware ver. 208. However this is the internal Dish firmware. Sorry, but I don't know what version of TVGOS it supports. It is fairly limited in the amount of information provided (no episode #, new/old flag, etc.)

I had a "similar" situation where channels I'd deleted from the lineup would be rediscovered during scans and you'd just have to go in and delete them again. It turns out you can use channel locks and then have the unit not display channels that are locked in the guide. This worked much better for us as the channels were then not rescanned and added back to the guide.

I'm using zip 80220 and get pretty much all the Denver metro channels correctly. I'm not sure about the GJ, Neb and SD feeds you mentioned.

The only TVGOS device I have is a Dish DTVPal DVR. The unit is at firmware ver. 208. However this is the internal Dish firmware. Sorry, but I don't know what version of TVGOS it supports. It is fairly limited in the amount of information provided (no episode #, new/old flag, etc.)

I had a "similar" situation where channels I'd deleted from the lineup would be rediscovered during scans and you'd just have to go in and delete them again. It turns out you can use channel locks and then have the unit not display channels that are locked in the guide. This worked much better for us as the channels were then not rescanned and added back to the guide.

I'm using zip 80220 and get pretty much all the Denver metro channels correctly. I'm not sure about the GJ, Neb and SD feeds you mentioned.

Ah, the DTVPal DVR is not a legacy TVGOS device, so it's an apples and oranges situation. Interesting bit about the channel locks to remember if I ever use the DTVPal on it's own and not to supply a converted digital to analog TVGOS feed to legacy TVGOS Panasonic DVR. Thanks.

Is anyone else not getting audio on 28-2? It is the Tres MTV feed. I have two different tuners (2nd get Samsung and CECB), and both get no audio on 28-2 (they are both fine on 28-1 and 28-3).

TIA, Greg

Anyone else experience any glitches (partial video breakups of 1-2 seconds duration) during Hell's Kitchen on 31-1 last night?

I noticed today that KQDK-CA (39) is gearing up to flashcut to digital. Their application was accepted by the FCC on July 1st but has not been approved yet. Based on their coverage map, it looks like they're going to move their transmitter from Aurora to Mount Morrison. Only 0.5 kw though.

I assumed that KQDK-CA would just get shutdown at some point after the DTV transition since KQCK-DT is already operational. However, I think it will be beneficial for viewers that cannot reliably pickup KQCK-DT because it is too far off axis or just too weak to receive.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting news. They've been limping along on analog for the past few months with persistent audio and video issues, so I'm hoping this will be a change for the better for them.
I have generally been able to get a snowy analog 39 picture, often without audio. Lately I have not been able to find an anlog or digital 39. It is no big loss, but I am curious.
Is any receiving 39 (Either analog or digital)?

To respond to a couple of posts regarding reception, I am receiving audio on 28-2, analog 39 is gone, nothing I could pick up on digital 39.

Is anyone else not getting audio on 28-2?

They've had some problems today. Late morning or early afternoon, I noticed that there was no audio on any of the subchannels, and only 28-2 had video, but they all appear to be working now.

I have generally been able to get a snowy analog 39 picture, often without audio. Lately I have not been able to find an anlog or digital 39. It is no big loss, but I am curious.
Is any receiving 39 (Either analog or digital)?

I first noticed that 39 was off the air on Friday or Saturday. I was hoping that maybe they were going to transition to digital this weekend, but that didn't happen. Their contruction permit for their new digital antenna was approved on 07/24/09, so one can only assume that that has something to do with them being off the air at the moment.

To respond to a couple of posts regarding reception, I am receiving audio on 28-2, analog 39 is gone, nothing I could pick up on digital 39.


As of last night, audio was back for me on 28-2. Thanks, Greg

I finally got my HDHomerun dual tuner working with my Mythbuntu HTPC and scanned all the OTA as well as unencrypted cable channels today. I can only tune in a couple of ION channels, Univision, KTVD-1 (which is currently showing some religious programming in Spanish) and a couple other channels. I can't get any network channels. Channels with signal strength as high as 69% don't lock in and even one network channel at 100% (KWGN DT) doesn't lock in. I'm using a Philips MANT510 indoor amplified VHF/UHF antenna wired up to the 2nd floor balcony near the ceiling of my vaulted living room and am located near Parker & Florida. Anybody else nearby able to tune in OTA with just an indoor antenna? I was hoping to cancel my $136/month Comcrap HD cable with DVR but am really disappointed in digital OTA right now.

I set up a radio shack $19.00 unamplified VHF/UHF antenna @ Broadway & Arapahoe and despite being in a valley the antenna works surprisingly well.

I finally got my HDHomerun dual tuner working with my Mythbuntu HTPC and scanned all the OTA as well as unencrypted cable channels today. I can only tune in a couple of ION channels, Univision, KTVD-1 (which is currently showing some religious programming in Spanish) and a couple other channels. I can't get any network channels. Channels with signal strength as high as 69% don't lock in and even one network channel at 100% (KWGN DT) doesn't lock in. I'm using a Philips MANT510 indoor amplified VHF/UHF antenna wired up to the 2nd floor balcony near the ceiling of my vaulted living room and am located near Parker & Florida. Anybody else nearby able to tune in OTA with just an indoor antenna? I was hoping to cancel my $136/month Comcrap HD cable with DVR but am really disappointed in digital OTA right now.

I've never used HDHomerun, but I know some of the PC tuners out there don't handle multipath interference very well. That could be an issue for you. Do you have any other tuners that you can try? Comparing what you're getting on your HDHomerun with a TV tuner or converter box would help to narrow down whether it's a tuner issue or something else.

Have you looked up your address on TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com)? It will give you a better idea of what the reception conditions are like at your location.

You mentioned that your antenna was on a balcony. Does it have metal railing? If so, that could be causing problems by reflecting the signal in different directions. Have you tried moving the antenna to other locations around your home? One of the challenges of using an indoor antenna is finding a "sweet spot" where you can receive all of your stations. Even moving the antenna a few inches can mean the difference between excellent reception and poor reception.

Based on your description, I'm assuming that your balcony is indoors. Do you have an outdoor balcony, patio, or rooftop available? If so, try your antenna there at least temporarily to see what reception is like. If you don't have an outdoor location available, do you have any west facing windows? If so, try placing the antenna in front of the window.

Indoor antenna reception can be very challenging, but persistance usually pays off. I've been getting great reception with a simple unamplified indoor antenna for the past year and a half, so it is possible. Good luck to you!

Has anyone been experiencing any problems with KWGN (Ch 2) recently?

The last 3 to 5 days or so we've only gotten "no information available" on TVGOS on a Dish DTVPal DVR but all the other stations are fine. We've also been getting pretty frequent pixellation and picture breakup.

I haven't noticed anything unusual as far as reception is concerned, but I have noticed that they haven't had PSIP guide data the past few days. KWGN and KDVR are both supposed to be doing equipment upgrades this month, so that is most likely the cause of your issues. Both stations have been running crawls for the past few weeks to notify viewers that they might lose reception temporarily.

Oh yeah, speaking of upgrades. KRMA is supposed to have their new full power antenna up and running tomorrow (August 10th). Hope that helps out the folks up north.

I've never used HDHomerun, but I know some of the PC tuners out there don't handle multipath interference very well. That could be an issue for you. Do you have any other tuners that you can try? Comparing what you're getting on your HDHomerun with a TV tuner or converter box would help to narrow down whether it's a tuner issue or something else.

Have you looked up your address on TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com)? It will give you a better idea of what the reception conditions are like at your location.

You mentioned that your antenna was on a balcony. Does it have metal railing? If so, that could be causing problems by reflecting the signal in different directions. Have you tried moving the antenna to other locations around your home? One of the challenges of using an indoor antenna is finding a "sweet spot" where you can receive all of your stations. Even moving the antenna a few inches can mean the difference between excellent reception and poor reception.

Based on your description, I'm assuming that your balcony is indoors. Do you have an outdoor balcony, patio, or rooftop available? If so, try your antenna there at least temporarily to see what reception is like. If you don't have an outdoor location available, do you have any west facing windows? If so, try placing the antenna in front of the window.

Indoor antenna reception can be very challenging, but persistance usually pays off. I've been getting great reception with a simple unamplified indoor antenna for the past year and a half, so it is possible. Good luck to you!

Well, call it balcony, alcove, loft, or whatever - it is the nook on top of the stairway behind and above my entertainment center in high vaulted area of the living room, about 8 feet up and 14 feet above ground level. My living room windows face west (1 and 1/2 height above in the vauted area) and north. I had left the antenna in the old position directed towards downtown (NW), from a couple of autumns ago when I tested out a digital tuner and they were still broadcasting low power signals from downtown. I reoriented the antennas almost due west towards Lookout Mountain which is where almost all the stations are according to TV Fool and rescanned. I now get KDVR31 and KTVD20 as well as a bunch of religious, shopping, and other junk channels. KWGN2 still shows 100% but won't lock in. KCNC4 and KMGH7 also show 100%, but won't lock in. I have no idea what the problem is with those channels. KUSA9 doesn't even show up in the scan. I went with an amplified antenna, because my previous test showed that it was better than an un-amplified antenna, but they were all broadcasting at low power then. I doubt multipath is a problem since that is typically in downtown locations with high buildings. I'm pretty much at the highest point in the area, with the ground dropping about a mile west (a mile or so east of Quebec), and the nearest tall building in the way would probably be the Darth Tower on Colorado, but that's a few miles away.

I guess the next step would be to buy a set top tuner again and see if it works any better. Some Einstein decided not to include digital tuners in almost all HDTVs when I bought my wide-screen Sony tube back in '03. :rolling eyes:

Well, call it balcony, alcove, loft, or whatever - it is the nook on top of the stairway behind and above my entertainment center in high vaulted area of the living room, about 8 feet up and 14 feet above ground level. My living room windows face west (1 and 1/2 height above in the vauted area) and north. I had left the antenna in the old position directed towards downtown (NW), from a couple of autumns ago when I tested out a digital tuner and they were still broadcasting low power signals from downtown. I reoriented the antennas almost due west towards Lookout Mountain which is where almost all the stations are according to TV Fool and rescanned. I now get KDVR31 and KTVD20 as well as a bunch of religious, shopping, and other junk channels. KWGN2 still shows 100% but won't lock in. KCNC4 and KMGH7 also show 100%, but won't lock in. I have no idea what the problem is with those channels. KUSA9 doesn't even show up in the scan. I went with an amplified antenna, because my previous test showed that it was better than an un-amplified antenna, but they were all broadcasting at low power then. I doubt multipath is a problem since that is typically in downtown locations with high buildings. I'm pretty much at the highest point in the area, with the ground dropping about a mile west (a mile or so east of Quebec), and the nearest tall building in the way would probably be the Darth Tower on Colorado, but that's a few miles away.

I guess the next step would be to buy a set top tuner again and see if it works any better. Some Einstein decided not to include digital tuners in almost all HDTVs when I bought my wide-screen Sony tube back in '03. :rolling eyes:

I have a HDHomeRun and l think it is a great piece of hardware. Note that there were two versions of the HDHomeRun, where the older version used an older generation demodulator that might be more subject to multipath problems. It also could be overloaded with a high signal level. The newer version uses a Gen 5 demodulator and it also is almost impossible to overload.

If you bought your HDHomeRun recently then you almost certainly have a new version unless you bought it used.

I noticed that you said that you were using it for both unencrypted QAM and for OTA signals, which means that you probably have one tuner connected to your cable and the other connected to your tuner. There's nothing wrong with that, but it can more easily lead to configuration problems. In order to make sure that the problem is purely a reception problem with the HDHomeRun and your OTA antenna, I have an experiment you can try.

If you haven't already done this, download the Linux hdhomerun_config tool from the Silicon Dust website and put it on your HTPC. This is a command line tool that can be used for configuring the HDHomeRun. After doing that, do the following on your HTPC:

1) Type "hdhomerun_config discover" to find your HDHomeRun's device id. It is an 8 digit number that you will need to use in the following commands.

2) Do you know which tuner (tuner0 or tuner1) is the tuner that is connected to your OTA antenna? If not, you may need to try the following on both tuners the first time in order to find which one is the one that is connected to the OTA antenna.

3) Type "hdhomerun_config 99999999 /tuner0/channel 8vsb:35", but replace the 99999999 with your HDHomeRun's device id, replace the /tuner0 with /tuner1 if tuner1 is the tuner with the OTA antenna connected to it, and replace the 35 with the RF channel for whatever channel you want to check the reception for. 35 would be for KCNC of course.

4) Type "hdhomerun_config get /tuner0/status". Again, replace the /tuner0 with /tuner1 if appropriate.

5) The above tuner status report will yield a single line with a variety of information, i.e. what channel the tuner is tuned to, whether or not the tuner was able to lock the channel and some signal meter values. It reports values for three different signal meters: ss, snq and seq. The "ss" meter is signal strength, and it is the raw RF signal strength. The "snq" meter is the signal/noise quality meter. The "seq" meter is the symbol error quality meter. You may not get a non zero value for snq if you can't lock the channel. You can run the above status command multiple times to see if the values change significantly over time.

Anyway, I'd be curious to see what values you get for KWGN, KCNC, KMGH and KUSA. Make sure you specify the RF channel, not the display channel when setting the channel for the tuner.

Has anyone been experiencing any problems with KWGN (Ch 2) recently?

The last 3 to 5 days or so we've only gotten "no information available" on TVGOS on a Dish DTVPal DVR but all the other stations are fine. We've also been getting pretty frequent pixellation and picture breakup.

No problems on my OTA pic, or on my D* H21 receiver. But when I tune Ch 2 on my mighty 1996 build Sony SAT-A2 box (ch# 909), the Ch 2 pic goes blank after a few seconds of program and shows the message "Station not available." Then when I check the guide, there's no Ch 2 listed.

Really odd. And it's on the newer H21 box and OTA with no problems. Actually looks pretty good.

KWGN2 still shows 100% but won't lock in. KCNC4 and KMGH7 also show 100%, but won't lock in. I have no idea what the problem is with those channels. KUSA9 doesn't even show up in the scan. I went with an amplified antenna, because my previous test showed that it was better than an un-amplified antenna, but they were all broadcasting at low power then.

Definitely sounds like a signal quality issue as jsmar mentioned. All of the stations in town are essentially at full power now, so you shouldn't need a lot of amplification. If you've got the amp on your antenna turned up all the way, try turning it down a bit. It could be doing more harm than good.

Since KMGH and KUSA are both VHF, they seem to be the ones that are the most difficult for people to receive. I generally keep my rabbit ears fully extended and in a V shape at about a 45 degree angle. Other people have recommended shortening the rabbit ears to about 15-18 inches and placing them horizontal to the ground. It all depends on what works best at your location. Making even minor adjustments to the position of your rabbit ears can make a huge difference in signal quality.

Anyone have a new antenna date for KRMA-DT?

Unless they're planning on doing work late tonight, they appear to have missed their August 10 date.

I forgot to mention this. Last week, I saw a semi truck unloading a broadcast TV antenna onto a smaller truck at the Lookout Mt exit. (Morrison side) My guess it was going up to Mt. Morrision.

Anyone have a new antenna date for KRMA-DT?

Unless they're planning on doing work late tonight, they appear to have missed their August 10 date.
You didn't hear this from me......

I understand that there are some full power tests going on in the beginning of this week and there will also be periods of low power as the tower crews will still need to do some work. Expect that if all goes well, full power will be full time by Thursday.

But like I said, you didn't hear this from me........

You didn't hear this from me......

I understand that there are some full power tests going on in the beginning of this week and there will also be periods of low power as the tower crews will still need to do some work. Expect that if all goes well, full power will be full time by Thursday.

That would be nice, especially to see if I can pick them up again once they go full power.

Then I can have the same lack of HD I did before February. :D

Given your member title, was wondering if there was something else that we couldn't hear from you?

I'd gotten a response from member services 4 or 5 weeks ago that KRMA hoped to return to HD in August. However a couple of weeks later another estimate of October appeared here on AVS.

Any estimates of when HD might come back that you'd not care to give us?

Thanks

I reoriented the antennas almost due west towards Lookout Mountain which is where almost all the stations are according to TV Fool and rescanned. I now get KDVR31 and KTVD20 as well as a bunch of religious, shopping, and other junk channels. KWGN2 still shows 100% but won't lock in. KCNC4 and KMGH7 also show 100%, but won't lock in. I have no idea what the problem is with those channels. KUSA9 doesn't even show up in the scan. I went with an amplified antenna, because my previous test showed that it was better than an un-amplified antenna, but they were all broadcasting at low power then. I doubt multipath is a problem since that is typically in downtown locations with high buildings. I'm pretty much at the highest point in the area, with the ground dropping about a mile west (a mile or so east of Quebec), and the nearest tall building in the way would probably be the Darth Tower on Colorado, but that's a few miles away.

I guess the next step would be to buy a set top tuner again and see if it works any better. Some Einstein decided not to include digital tuners in almost all HDTVs when I bought my wide-screen Sony tube back in '03. :rolling eyes:

It isn't multi-path, it is overload. Some tuners handle overload better than others, but I'm guessing yours can't. The quick and cheap fix is to put a 10 dB fixed attenuator from Rat Shack on the coax connection to your tuner. If that solves the problem, you are done. If it just reduces the problem, get rid of the amplified antenna and go with an un-amplified UHF/VHf antenna. Walmart has one for about $10 that many folks with good LOS and not excessive distance to LOM swear by.

KRMA has on there web site that they will broadcast prime time in full power they will turn the power down durring the day to fiish there tower work. It also looks like the have someone working on the formating issue the said the hope to have both fixed by 12/12/09 and be full power all the time

KRMA has on there web site,,, It also looks like the have someone working on the formating issue the said the hope to have both fixed by 12/12/09 and be full power all the time

12/12/09 before they function like a professional operation?

KRMA has on there web site that they will broadcast prime time in full power they will turn the power down durring the day to fiish there tower work. It also looks like the have someone working on the formating issue the said the hope to have both fixed by 12/12/09 and be full power all the time

It looks like they significantly raised power at around 4:30 pm today. Anyone who had trouble with them seeing an improvement?

Anyone know what happend to KDEO-ld it has been comming in at least 54 on my Sony lcd today 0 . I have yet to get 28.x are they at there full 15Kw yet or still on there stay. Same with 40.1 iget 53.1 most of the time but not a wiff of 40.1

Kwgn 87-93
kcnc 82-85
Kgwn 65-71
Krma 76-82 (as of today)
Kmtv 65-71
Kusa 65-69
Kqck 54-60
Kbdi 87-92
KTFD 93
Ktvd 92-98
Kfct 93-98
Kdeo 54( normaly now gone)
Klwy 16
Kdvr 82-89
Kpjr 93-98
47 Krma translator 71
Kwhd 0-36
Kcec 72-76
kpax 93-98
These are all from my attic setup in Eaton Co

It looks like they significantly raised power at around 4:30 pm today. Anyone who had trouble with them seeing an improvement?

Only the TVs on my amplified attic antenna were usually able to get KRMA-DT.

I have a couple of DISH TR40CRA CECBs connected to a CM 3010 Stealth (No amplifier) antenna in a second floor closet. Every time I had checked in the past, they were reporting 0 signal. Today, around 6PM they were in the 90s, which is as hot as anything I receive. For Louisville, it looks like, as I had suspected, the Mt Morrison sight should be just fine, as long as they use an antenna up on the tower, instead of on the Ice Bridge.

I will have to try to remember to check tommorow during the day when they may be at reduced power. I suspect the signal will still be fine, as long as they continue to use the new, tower mounted, antenna.

I just did a rescan and am now picking up KRMA where I never had before. According to TVFool I am about 50 miles south of the transmitter. It is coming in at about 70 on a DISH 211 receiver. Now if we can start getting it in HD life will be great.

KRMA has on there web site that they will broadcast prime time in full power they will turn the power down durring the day to fiish there tower work. It also looks like the have someone working on the formating issue the said the hope to have both fixed by 12/12/09 and be full power all the time

I think you meant 08/12/09. According to the KRMA full power update (http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/526/KRMA-full-power-update), they expect to be doing tower maintenance through Wednesday and will be reducing power during the day to accomodate that. They also implied that they will be working on the screen formatting issue but didn't mention any specific timeline for having it resolved. No mention of HD, so I wouldn't count on seeing that anytime soon.

Anyone know what happend to KDEO-ld it has been comming in at least 54 on my Sony lcd today 0 .


They appear to be off the air today. It happens from time to time with them. In this case, I wonder if it has anything to do with the tower work being done by KRMA. Since their transmitters are both located on Mount Morrison, I suppose it's possible.

Signal strength of 94/100 here at my house in Louisville.

Not quite as strong as some of the LOM stations, but much better than KBDI-DT.

So to recap my latest TiVo S3 readings:

KWGN-DT: 98%
KCNC-DT: 94%
KRMA-DT: 94%
KMGH-DT: 96%
KUSA-DT: 98%
KBDI-DT: 66%
KTFD-DT: 99%
KTVD-DT: 100%
23-1: (Unreceivable right now)
KDEN-DT: 56%
28-1: 57%
KDVR-DT: 96%
KPJR-DT: 82%
KRMT-DT: 76%
KCEC-DT: 94%
KWHD-DT: 69%
KPXC-DT (Unreceivable right now)

I did check for KRMA at around 1PM and 1:30PM today. My TR40CRA on the CM 3010 stealth is reading 0 signal. The TVs on the amplified attic antenna are getting KRMA OK. My guess on what would happen was wrong, unless they just switched to the Ice Bridge equipment to go into reduced power mode.

The KRMA web sight did say they would be at reduced power, at times, between 9AM and 4PM today and tomorrow, but it did not say whether they would be using the new antenna at reduced power or go back to the Ice Bridge arrangement while the crews are at work. I have not seen anything that makes it clear. I thought I read somewhere that they might retain the Ice Bridge equipment as a backup, but I can't swear to that, and, even if they did say that at one time, they could change their plans.

Hopefully, the new equipment will be reliable enough, that the backup configuration will not matter much.

So, I didn't see a signal strength drop during the day today, so it looks like KRMA met their schedule and is now at full power during the day also. Looking at their website it appears that the change helped some people, but actually hurt some others (which is a little surprising -- it must be due to a different radiation pattern).

Considering how many people were looking forward to this, I'm a little surprised at the dearth of reception reports. For me, I was always able to get them, but now their signal is right up there with some of the strongest I receive, i.e. I'm seeing a significant boost in signal strength. Even though I'm only about 4 miles from KRMA's RF47 translator in Fort Collins, and am right in the center of the RF47 radiation pattern, my reception is better from Mt. Morrison, since my antenna is aimed towards Lookout Mountain, whereas the RF47 translator is coming in at 90 degrees, making the signal unreliable at times. So, I'm happy with the signal improvement, now I'm looking forward to the return to HD. It's too bad they aren't scheduled to do that before the Ken Burn's National Parks series starts.

I checked the reception of KRMA last night. It seemed to be in the 85% range, which is much higher than it's been in the past. The real test will be the next cloudy day we have, which is when reception seemed to be the worst for us.

I just checked KRMA signal strength a few minutes ago. Same as always, no noticeable increase in signal. Channel 6.1 is still screwed-up also as my newest and best ATSC tuner sees a 4:3 picture at 480i, but my Dish ViP 211 sees a 16:9 at 480i. Obviously the data they are sending isn't properly coded yet.

I have been getting KRMA right along. It is about 50 degrees off the side of where my antennas are pointed here in Bear Vally to hit LOM. Signal strength here in the valley is not always the best indicater depending on the reciever that I am using. I can get 85% on some of the old ones and still get bad pixelization and drop outs (fro some reason, (VHF?) particularly true for KUSA here). The PC Hauppauge 2250 card software has a meter with SNR and that shows counts of correctable and uncorrectable errors. I checked on my pc tuner yesteday afternoon KRMA was at 19 to 20 SNR over ten minutes it showed about 10 correctable errors. Today it is 27 to 28 SNR ten minutes showed 1 correctable error. A significant improvement I think.

I just don't watch it very much. I have become an HD snob. Once they get HD back and some good content I will resume watching...and my membership.

Phil

Well, heck.

Somehow I must've missed my topic reply notification e-mail a LOOOONG time ago and I realized I haven't been on avs in forever.

Anyway, I just wanted to check in and say "so long." My wife was laid off last October, and the company has decided to rehire her. On the condition that we move to market #92 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=217285&goto=newpost). It's been a long 10 months without her income, so we're biting the bullet, packing up the HDTVs and heading east.

Despite all the troubles we've had here in Denver, at least we've now got a choice of local news to watch in HD. Out in the greater tri cities area, it seems like they don't have any.

I've had a blast at all the local meetups and hanging out here with y'all. I wonder what windmills I'll find to tilt at out there...

dr-mal,
Best of luck to you and your family. Thank you for all your work and knowledge regarding the LOM tower situation over the years. I hope the doughnuts are as tasty in the Tri-cities as they were here!

I just checked KRMA signal strength a few minutes ago. Same as always, no noticeable increase in signal. Channel 6.1 is still screwed-up also as my newest and best ATSC tuner sees a 4:3 picture at 480i, but my Dish ViP 211 sees a 16:9 at 480i. Obviously the data they are sending isn't properly coded yet.

KRMA continues to blast in for me now, being one of my strongest signals, after going largely unreceived since whatever happened around transition time in February.

The picture on the other hand has been uh, entertaining.

Earlier today I flipped by and they were broadcasting Sesame Street in anamorphic 4:3, meaning you had to apply a "wide" stretch to the picture to get a normal 4:3 image…

Earlier today I flipped by and they were broadcasting Sesame Street in anamorphic 4:3, meaning you had to apply a "wide" stretch to the picture to get a normal 4:3 image…

Yeah, it's kinda stupid. According to their Screen shape update (http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/528/Screen-shape-update) page, they're basically adding black bars to the sides of the image to "correct" their aspect ratio problems. I don't know why they don't just do whatever they were doing before they started broadcasting everything widescreen. At least then, you could adjust the picture if necessary. Now you're just out of luck. Sounds like they're just being lazy.

Yeah, it's kinda stupid. According to their Screen shape update (http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/528/Screen-shape-update) page, they're basically adding black bars to the sides of the image to "correct" their aspect ratio problems. I don't know why they don't just do whatever they were doing before they started broadcasting everything widescreen. At least then, you could adjust the picture if necessary. Now you're just out of luck. Sounds like they're just being lazy.

Actually, I agree with what they are doing, as long as they do it correctly. I haven't checked often, but when I have it appears they are doing the right thing. I think all stations that are sending standard def programming should migrate to 16:9 output.

Basically, most stations that are sending SD are sending 480i with a 4:3 aspect ratio. If the program source is 4:3 then they can send it unchanged. If the program source is 16:9 then they have to letterbox it to convert it to 4:3.

What KRMA is doing is sending SD as 480i with a 16:9 aspect ratio. If the program source is 4:3 then they pillarbox it. If the program source is 16:9 then they can send it unchanged. This favors 16:9 material by not wasting resolution for the black bars that would be required to letterbox the material if they sent it in 4:3.

Up until 8/5 KRMA was constantly switching aspect ratios from 4:3 to 16:9 and back, presumably corresponding to the program source. In an ideal world that might be the best way of doing it (no resolution sacrificed for black bars in either case), but I suspect this method is error prone and also causes glitches as the aspect ratio is switched back and forth. In the evening of 8/5 KRMA switched to 16:9 aspect ratio, and they have not switched back to 4:3 since then.

In my opinion, if you own a 16:9 TV then you should prefer what KRMA is doing now. However, it is possible they are still making mistakes. Note that it is also possible that some hardware may not handle 480i with a 16:9 aspect ratio correctly (my Zenith DTT901 and DTV Pal CECB's seem to handle it correctly).

Anyway, many of you are still reporting aspect ratio screwups since 8/5. I have not witnessed this, but I don't check that often. I am going to record 7 hours of programming on 6.1 from 5PM to 12AM tonight. If you are one of the people who are seeing problems with aspect ratio, please check 6.1 a few times between 5PM and 12AM and let me know if you see any problems, and at what time. I'm curious to see what the source of the problems actually are.

Up until 8/5 KRMA was constantly switching aspect ratios from 4:3 to 16:9 and back, presumably corresponding to the program source. In an ideal world that might be the best way of doing it (no resolution sacrificed for black bars in either case), but I suspect this method is error prone and also causes glitches as the aspect ratio is switched back and forth. In the evening of 8/5 KRMA switched to 16:9 aspect ratio, and they have not switched back to 4:3 since then.

That's moronic - then you end up with the "Sesame Street" issue I spoke of where I have to change my HDTV from "Norm" to "Wide" to see 4:3 content in a 4:3 ratio.

The vast majority of programming KRMA sends out now is 4:3; they used to send out 4:3 SD and 16:9 HD. Hopefully someday they will again.

But given the vast majority of their programming is 4:3 anyway, that means the aspect ratio they're sending out is wrong the majority of the time.

That's just not right.

Add me to the list of people adversely affected by KRMA's antenna changes. My signal is now registering around 34 on my Sharp AQUOS and, although I have a stable picture this morning, it was unwatchable last night. I live in central Denver near Colorado Blvd. and Colfax Ave. and have a rooftop Terk 44 antenna mounted on a decommissioned D*TV dish, amplified with a non-activated D*TV STB.

Being OTA only, I mostly watch KRMA as my 'background' TV channel in the evening (except for the last two weeks due to the boring big-band programming they've been airing during their pledge drive).

Hopefully my KRMA signal woes are temporary.

I believe in financially supporting good programming (I lived in the UK for a number of years and it has a mandatory license fee for operating a TV in your home or business. I was morally opposed to the idea at first but after paying for a couple of years and enjoying quality commercial-free programming on the BBC channels I understood the value). I would be more then happy to contribute to PBS if I felt I was watching quality programming with reliable reception in high definition. I remain uncertain about that.

In my opinion, if you own a 16:9 TV then you should prefer what KRMA is doing now. However, it is possible they are still making mistakes.

It's not just possible. They ARE making many mistakes. They claim they are short of staff, but that's no excuse. If they can't do it right, then they shouldn't be doing it at all. Just show everything in 4:3 and be done with it.

Anyway, many of you are still reporting aspect ratio screwups since 8/5. I have not witnessed this, but I don't check that often. I am going to record 7 hours of programming on 6.1 from 5PM to 12AM tonight. If you are one of the people who are seeing problems with aspect ratio, please check 6.1 a few times between 5PM and 12AM and let me know if you see any problems, and at what time. I'm curious to see what the source of the problems actually are.

Many of the problems occur during the day, not the evening. They tend to just stretch SD content to widescreen during the day, and there is no way to convert it to 4:3. At least if they kept doing what they were doing for the first six months of 2009, I would have the choice to zoom or not zoom when necessary. The way things are now, I'm stuck with a stretched picture.

I would be more then happy to contribute to PBS if I felt I was watching quality programming with reliable reception in high definition.

I think most of us would agree with that. Unfortunately, KRMA has been sending out crap for nearly a year now, and many viewers have been unable to receive that.

dr_mal,

Good luck with your move back East. You are going to a nice area for lots of green and humidity. I also think Krispy Cream is always near by :)

Check back in with us every once and a while!!

...Krispy Cream is always near by :)

Do they make a good chocolate donut? ;)

Sad to see one of the 'old timers' go, best of luck to you and your wife!

That's moronic - then you end up with the "Sesame Street" issue I spoke of where I have to change my HDTV from "Norm" to "Wide" to see 4:3 content in a 4:3 ratio.


Not if they pillarbox it like they should. Pillarboxing 4:3 content in order to transmit at a 16:9 aspect ratio is no different than letterboxing 16:9 content in order to transmit at a 4:3 aspect ratio. They just have to get it right. Now, if they are actually stretching the 4:3 content to convert to 16:9 then that is just plain wrong.

EDIT:

OK, the current kids program "It's a big big world" is being stretched, so that is the issue. They need to be pillarboxing their 4:3 content, which they were doing properly last night when I checked. Anyway, consider this all practice for when they go to HD. The problems they are trying to solve right now are the same problems they will have when they switch to 1080i. Maybe they'll get it right before then!

Not if they pillarbox it like they should. Pillarboxing 4:3 content in order to transmit at a 16:9 aspect ratio is no different than letterboxing 16:9 content in order to transmit at a 4:3 aspect ratio. They just have to get it right. Now, if they are actually stretching the 4:3 content to convert to 16:9 then that is just plain wrong.

With my Dish ViP211 (an STB in very wide distribution for several years) KRMA 6-1 comes out as stretched to fill a 16:9 screen. On the Dish feed channel for KRMA I get letterbox. Switching over to the on-board ATSC tuner in my brand new Sony Z5100, it is recognized as 16:9 content at 480i, but displays as pillarboxed or letterboxed, depending on the content, 4:3. This is stupid. They should just broadcast all content in 4:3 as long as they are going to stay at 480i. Their widescreen stuff can be letterboxed and the viewers can decide if they want to zoom it.

That's moronic - then you end up with the "Sesame Street" issue I spoke of where I have to change my HDTV from "Norm" to "Wide" to see 4:3 content in a 4:3 ratio.

The vast majority of programming KRMA sends out now is 4:3; they used to send out 4:3 SD and 16:9 HD. Hopefully someday they will again.

But given the vast majority of their programming is 4:3 anyway, that means the aspect ratio they're sending out is wrong the majority of the time.

That's just not right.Well at least you can actually get KRMA. Here is S. Lafayette I'm still not getting it. Its been like this for probably about a year.

With my Dish ViP211 (an STB in very wide distribution for several years) KRMA 6-1 comes out as stretched to fill a 16:9 screen. On the Dish feed channel for KRMA I get letterbox. Switching over to the on-board ATSC tuner in my brand new Sony Z5100, it is recognized as 16:9 content at 480i, but displays as pillarboxed or letterboxed, depending on the content, 4:3. This is stupid. They should just broadcast all content in 4:3 as long as they are going to stay at 480i. Their widescreen stuff can be letterboxed and the viewers can decide if they want to zoom it.

The Z5100 is a 16:9 display. When you say letterboxed, do you mean windowboxed? Are you saying you've never seen content from KRMA that fills the entire screen? There are times when they send legitimate 16:9 widescreen content, and there are other times they appear to be sending 4:3 content that is stretched to 16:9. In both cases that content should fill your 16:9 display. If it is not then your TV is at fault (which I hope is not the case, since I am planning on buying a Sony Z model myself late this year).

So, looking quickly through my 7 hours of recording, it looks like the only time they screwed up was during the 10-10:30 slot where they broadcast a sitcom called "A Fine Romance". That show was clearly 4:3 material that was stretched to 16:9. Everything else was either true 16:9 content or properly pillarboxed 4:3 content. Of course, some of the 4:3 content was programming that was originally 16:9 and was letterboxed to 4:3 before KRMA got it, which became windowboxed when KRMA pillarboxed it.

I'd sure like to know when they wind up sending stretched 4:3 content if the reason is that they are just making a mistake (and why it's so hard for them to get it right in that case), or are there people at the station who think that stretching the 4:3 content is actually desirable.

Well at least you can actually get KRMA. Here is S. Lafayette I'm still not getting it. Its been like this for probably about a year.

Have you tried again this week?

I had lost their signal since the changeover in February for whatever reason, but since they moved their antenna and upped their power this week, they've been coming in as strong for me as most of the LOM stations, and I can't help but believe it would be even better for you to the southeast of me.

Have you tried again this week?

I had lost their signal since the changeover in February for whatever reason, but since they moved their antenna and upped their power this week, they've been coming in as strong for me as most of the LOM stations, and I can't help but believe it would be even better for you to the southeast of me.I have a D* HR10-250 and yesterday I went to add/remove some channels and noticed there was a second 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3 and they were labeled as KRMA whereas the ones already selected were no longer showing as KRMA. So, I removed the old ones and added the new KRMAs and can now get KRMA again. Did they change frequencies or something? However, like many others of you have pointed out, the aspect ratio is messed up! I also get KRMA in SD from DirecTV and its messed up also. An example was A Fine Romance a couple of nights ago as someone else mentioned.

For anyone annoyed by KRMA's aspect ratio issues, please go to their Screen shape update (http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/528/Screen-shape-update) page and add a comment. If enough people complain about it, maybe they will actually do something to correct it.

Sorry to go OT:
I need your help. I have an old Grundig radio console and need to have a knowledgable person replace the broken dial string. Anybody know someone in the front range that knows how to do this? thanks in advance; pm me or....I'm in the book in Conifer.
Back on topic:
Now that the ch 6 antenna has been raised, I can receive the ota sig. I am roughly
South & maybe 10-20 degrees W. That big "hump" on Mt Morrison immediately South of the antenna mast was blocking the signal to the south before they raised it.

For anyone annoyed by KRMA's aspect ratio issues, please go to their Screen shape update (http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/528/Screen-shape-update) page and add a comment. If enough people complain about it, maybe they will actually do something to correct it.

Rick313,

A post I just made to Tom Craig at KRMA's Screen shape update page.
Keep complaining folks. Maybe they'll finally get it right no matter how you receive the channel.


Mr. Craig,

You would have me believe that Comcast is paying enough attention to your station’s feed to take a “center cut” out of a 4:3 picture and display it in a 16:9 format? That boggles the mind. I’m watching your digital feed on Comcast’s digital channel 658 and 4:3 source material is being stretched to 16:9. People do look squashed. Shirt buttons are oval. It’s being stretched by KRMA and not some intermediary. As others before me have said, the end viewer can’t fix it. When I find that I’ve recorded something on my DVR, only to find the aspect ratio still screwed up, I just delete it.

Simply unwatchable.

You would have me believe that Comcast is paying enough attention to your station’s feed to take a “center cut” out of a 4:3 picture and display it in a 16:9 format?

I think you misunderstood what Mr. Craig was saying. He was referring to the non-HD channels on cable and satellite. As I understand it, they take the original HD feeds and center cut them for their non-HD channels. For HD channels, the center cut would not apply.

The point he was trying to make is that non-HD cable and satellite viewers should not see the black bars on the sides of the picture because, in theory, they would be cut off by the service provider.

I'm getting good receptions from all local channels except KUSA (9-1, 9-2 & 9-3). What's up? It broadcasting from lookout mnt just like the other so I'm not sure why I can't pick up those chanels ota.

Where are you located? What kind of antenna are you using?
Here in Bear Vally close to Hampden and Sheridan, KUSA (9-x) gives me more problems than any of the other locals, including KRMA (before their antenna upgrade and power boost) and KBDI. I am not sure why either. Sure it is high VHF, but so is 7 KMGH?? I think it is a problem of multipath, but I am not sure why them and not KMGH as well. OTH, Kusa is about 15% percent lower for signal strenght on all of the 6 or so different recievers that I use... It still should be good enough for a good lock, but I experience lock up and pixelization from time to time.

I think you misunderstood what Mr. Craig was saying. He was referring to the non-HD channels on cable and satellite. As I understand it, they take the original HD feeds and center cut them for their non-HD channels. For HD channels, the center cut would not apply.

The point he was trying to make is that non-HD cable and satellite viewers should not see the black bars on the sides of the picture because, in theory, they would be cut off by the service provider.

Rick313,

I think Mr Craig misunderstands what he is saying. Watching Antiques Roadshow at the moment in 4:3 on Denver Comcast channel 6 (analog) and 4:3 on Comcast channel 658 (digital), they both show black side bars on my 16:9 projection system. Analog channel 6 looks worse (less resolution, ringing, etc.) but otherwise the picture is the same. No center cut.

Since KRMA only broadcasts a digital signal, it looks like Comcast picks up one feed then distributes it unchanged on both their analog and digital channels.

It's a moot point. Soundstage this morning at 2AM looked like CinemaScope. A 16:9 picture squashed to a 2.35:1 ratio with black bars at the top and bottom. It's not Comcast's doing. I'm not sure Mr. Craig knows what he's up against in his own control room.

The Z5100 is a 16:9 display. When you say letterboxed, do you mean windowboxed? Are you saying you've never seen content from KRMA that fills the entire screen? There are times when they send legitimate 16:9 widescreen content, and there are other times they appear to be sending 4:3 content that is stretched to 16:9. In both cases that content should fill your 16:9 display. If it is not then your TV is at fault (which I hope is not the case, since I am planning on buying a Sony Z model myself late this year).

So, looking quickly through my 7 hours of recording, it looks like the only time they screwed up was during the 10-10:30 slot where they broadcast a sitcom called "A Fine Romance". That show was clearly 4:3 material that was stretched to 16:9. Everything else was either true 16:9 content or properly pillarboxed 4:3 content. Of course, some of the 4:3 content was programming that was originally 16:9 and was letterboxed to 4:3 before KRMA got it, which became windowboxed when KRMA pillarboxed it.

I'd sure like to know when they wind up sending stretched 4:3 content if the reason is that they are just making a mistake (and why it's so hard for them to get it right in that case), or are there people at the station who think that stretching the 4:3 content is actually desirable.

Okay, so I tuned in Sid the Science Kid this morning. I don't know what the aspect ratio is supposed to be , but I suspect that KRMA is attempting to send the video out as widescreen and it seemed like the video wasn't stretched horizontally. On the Dish Network version of Channel 6 (the one that all Dish customers get on all Dish SD and HD receivers) the video has obviously been "center cut" to create a 4:3 picture leaving those viewers robbed of content and the option of zooming the full video in 4:3 to fit a widescreen TV. If those viewers zoom what they have to get a widescreen view, then they lose additional content. Bad decision on the part of KRMA.

With my Dish ViP211 receiver using its ATSC tuner I see channel 6-1 in widescreen and it looks pretty good since it has been upscaled by both my receiver and my TV (to 1080i by my receiver, to 1080p by my TV). This is fine video if one has a widescreen TV and has the upscaling features available.

With the on-board ATSC tuner in my 2-1/2 month old Sony Z5100 I see channel 6-1 as a 4:3 image that looks to be horizontally compressed. The TV's info says the image is 480i and 16:9, but something in the coding from KRMA is causing the Sony to not take the image to widescreen automatically. In fact, the aspect ratio adjustments on the Sony (called Wide on the remote) list the view as Normal, which is a view only available as an option for 4:3 content. When the tuner sees 4:3 content, it defaults to Normal with aspect ratio options of Wide Zoom, Full, and Zoom. Switching to Full gives you the same widescreen view that I get with my Dish receiver's OTA tuner; however, it also blows up all the other 4:3 channels so one has to change back and forth just to deal with channel 6-1. Since 6-1 is the only channel trying to do what they are doing, I can't compare how another channel would look with my two receivers on the Sony. All other widescreen channels are HD and the aspect ratio defaults to Full, with options for Wide Zoom, Horizontal Stretch, or Zoom. I just checked channel 6-1 on my 2-1/2 year old Samsung LCD HDTV and I get exactly the same response on it as I do with OTA on my new Sony. It defaults to 4:3 even though the info says it is 16:9. If you change the aspect ratio to 16:9 on that channel, you have to change it back to 4:3 for all the other 4:3 channels. To me this confirms that KRMA is either doing something wrong or what they are doing just can't be done right.

I think KRMA should just go back to the 4:3 aspect ratio for all content on channel 6-1 until they are capable of going to HD. What they are doing benefits a handful of OTA viewers with widescreen TVs. Most of the folks watching 6-1 today get it via Comcast or DBS, which are center cutting the picture. OTA viewers without a widescreen TV are getting a center cut view with small black bars top and bottom (at least that is what I get on my one remaining old 4:3 CRT TV with a Zenith DTT900 tuner). So most viewers are being deprived of seeing the full video content. In addition, it does appear that 6-1 is stretching some 4:3 content to fit their widescreen attempt. I just looked at Barney and Friends and it sure looked like horizontally stretched video to me or else those kids are part of our childhood obesity problem.

A little off topic - anything being planned for the RMAudioFest in October?
http://audiofest.net/2009/index.php

A friend of mine asked when the old towers were going to start being dismantled up on Lookout Mtn. Anyone have any info regarding this? Thanks.

Anyone heard anything regarding KDVR and KWGN finishing their DTV upgrades. Didn't they say August in their crawls for the past couple of months?

I'm hoping their upgrades do a lot more than KRMA's supposed "upgrade". With KRMA I was reading 72 on my Dish receiver before the "upgrade" and I'm still reading 72. By way of comparison, KTFD, which allegedly is lower on the tower now than KRMA, comes in at 95 to 99 on my Dish receiver.

Anyone heard anything regarding KDVR and KWGN finishing their DTV upgrades. Didn't they say August in their crawls for the past couple of months?

I'm hoping their upgrades do a lot more than KRMA's supposed "upgrade". With KRMA I was reading 72 on my Dish receiver before the "upgrade" and I'm still reading 72. By way of comparison, KTFD, which allegedly is lower on the tower now than KRMA, comes in at 95 to 99 on my Dish receiver.

For KRMA-DT, my signal strength increase has been dramatic and for me it was a huge "upgrade". I think the move up the tower was probably much more significant to my situation than the power boost because I am convinced that much of the signal in my direction was being blocked at the transmitter site. I really don't have any nasty reception issues at my end.

It would appear that your signal was not being blocked at the transmitter, so you had a lot less potential for a dramatic improvement. Are your KRMA signal levels low enough to actually be a problem? Do you get breakup?

FYI: The signal strengths detected by my DISH TR40CRA CECBs connected to a passive Stealth 3010 antenna in a second floor closet are nearly identical for KRMA and KTFD, and both are as hot as anything I receive. The actual KRMA level went from 0 (undetected) to the mid 90s. For those of us with clean reception paths at the receive end, I don't think the relative antenna positions of those 2 antennas are all that critical. I believe the KTFD antenna is high enough to not get blocked at the transmit site for the vast majority who are not west of the transmitter.

For KRMA-DT, my signal strength increase has been dramatic and for me it was a huge "upgrade". I think the move up the tower was probably much more significant to my situation than the power boost because I am convinced that much of the signal in my direction was being blocked at the transmitter site. I really don't have any nasty reception issues at my end.

It would appear that your signal was not being blocked at the transmitter, so you had a lot less potential for a dramatic improvement. Are your KRMA signal levels low enough to actually be a problem? Do you get breakup?

FYI: The signal strengths detected by my DISH TR40CRA CECBs connected to a passive Stealth 3010 antenna in a second floor closet are nearly identical for KRMA and KTFD, and both are as hot as anything I receive. The actual KRMA level went from 0 (undetected) to the mid 90s. For those of us with clean reception paths at the receive end, I don't think the relative antenna positions of those 2 antennas are all that critical. I believe the KTFD antenna is high enough to not get blocked at the transmit site for the vast majority who are not west of the transmitter.

A KRMA signal strength of 72 isn't a problem for me in good weather. My point is that KTFD almost tops the scale on all of my receivers, while KRMA has remained unchanged despite the antenna move. Now KRMA's power is supposedly 115 kW, while I think KTFD is at 200 kW, but that shouldn't make that big a difference (less than 3 dB). Maybe KRMA isn't really at 115 kW yet.

I'm not sure where to post this. Help direct me if this isn't the right thread.

I'm in the middle of remodeling my basement. So now would be a good time to switch services if I wanted. However, I'm not convinced by the hype. I mean, satellite may have been better in the past, but I think Comcast has improved services and offerings. I'm still pissed I can't get Cartoon Network in HD, but I've survived, barely, but I'm still here.

Anyway, I have two friends that are big Comcast haters and spew the hate all the time. They've tried to get me to switch but their vitriol has actually just emboldened me. Now, I can't trust my own sense on this issue. And information on the internet seems dated.

One of my buddies who installs home theater systems in the mountains is convinced that satellite is better. He claims that as comcast gets more content it has to compress what it already has, thus making for a less complete picture. He claims comcast video signal is akin to AVI files. That is just not the case in my experience. I looked at his TV and I found my picture still beat his. It gets ugly talking to him about this. He isn't reasonable.

Which one is the better HD service in your opinion? And why?

What are you basing your information on? How old is it? Where are you getting this information?

Is the satellite picture better than Comcast? Why?

I'm not sure where to post this. Help direct me if this isn't the right thread.

I'm in the middle of remodeling my basement. So now would be a good time to switch services if I wanted. However, I'm not convinced by the hype. I mean, satellite may have been better in the past, but I think Comcast has improved services and offerings. I'm still pissed I can't get Cartoon Network in HD, but I've survived, barely, but I'm still here.

Anyway, I have two friends that are big Comcast haters and spew the hate all the time. They've tried to get me to switch but their vitriol has actually just emboldened me. Now, I can't trust my own sense on this issue. And information on the internet seems dated.

One of my buddies who installs home theater systems in the mountains is convinced that satellite is better. He claims that as comcast gets more content it has to compress what it already has, thus making for a less complete picture. He claims comcast video signal is akin to AVI files. That is just not the case in my experience. I looked at his TV and I found my picture still beat his. It gets ugly talking to him about this. He isn't reasonable.

Which one is the better HD service in your opinion? And why?

What are you basing your information on? How old is it? Where are you getting this information?

Is the satellite picture better than Comcast? Why?

DBS has and likely will continue to have far more HD channels than Comcast. So if you want more HD channels, then go DBS.

As to PQ, it seems to vary over time as each vendor's system reaches saturation and they over-compress until they get more bandwidth/capability. Right now, Dish probably has the best HD PQ, while last year it was DirecTV and a couple of years ago it was Comcast. I don't see how Comcast can stay up with the DBS capabilities and capacity. I've seen Comcast's current HD, but not on the same quality sets that I get Dish on at home, so it may be more the set than the provider. In any event, the Comcast PQ wasn't nearly as sharp as the Dish PQ I view on my HDTVs.

With the cost of Comcast and the limited number of HD channels I would never go back to Comcast (I left in 1999 after almost 20 years with cable). When I'm looking to upgrade, I do look at DirecTV and compare their offerings to what offers Dish might give me.

A KRMA signal strength of 72 isn't a problem for me in good weather. My point is that KTFD almost tops the scale on all of my receivers, while KRMA has remained unchanged despite the antenna move. Now KRMA's power is supposedly 115 kW, while I think KTFD is at 200 kW, but that shouldn't make that big a difference (less than 3 dB). Maybe KRMA isn't really at 115 kW yet.
In their DTV Transition Plan Update http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434/UPDATE:-Our-DTV-transition-plan-they said:
In August 2009, KRMA will increase power of our digital signal from our site on Mt. Morrison from 315kW ERP to 1,000kW (1MW or 1 million watts) We will also begin broadcasting with a new antenna from the top of the tower on Mt. Morrison which, coupled with the increase in power should resolve most of the signal reception problems our viewers experience with in our coverage area.

I have never found anything that authorized them to be at 315KW ERP so I don't know how reliable that posting is.

I also have not been able to figure out which, if any, of their FCC filings is linked to the latest change. The last approved FCC 340 Construction Permit I could find: BPEDT 20080617ACF GRANTED 07/25/2008 does not exactly match the old Analog 20 site we think they are operating from. The tower description is wrong (too short) and the location is not quite right either. Since that stuff is wrong, I don't know whether this is the actual FCC filing they relied on to install the new equipment. I don't know whether we can trust the antenna description in that filing either. The pattern of the new antenna is probably directional. The polar plot in the filing puts me at about 98% while it predicts 72% for someone at 70 degrees from the transmitter and 100% for someone at 100 degrees. I have no idea if this matches the antenna they are actually using.

If they really went to 1MW ERP, I would have thought that would increase the signal strength you would get, but the new antenna could possibly be providing reflected signals to your location, that wipe out the benefit of the increased power. If you are at all concerned that you may have problems, you should probably notify them of your observations. Maybe there is an antenna pattern problem. KCNC had a pattern problem when they installed the antenna I believe they are currently using.

They do seem to have made things much better for some who were getting extremely weak signals and were in their predicted coverage area. At least, I have not seen anyone post that it got worse.

For KRMA-DT, my signal strength increase has been dramatic and for me it was a huge "upgrade"..

Absolutely agree. Up here in Fort Collins, my Dish receiver reports 100%, while my DirecTivo reports 93%. That makes it my second strongest signal after KTFD. I feel for folks who are shadowed and lost signal completely, but there's a lot of people who certainly gained here.

Tom Craig has started another thread on Panorama:

http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/532/Screen-shape-update-II

I'm bummed to hear that they have applied for grant funding for "proper HD equipment" - even if they did that some time ago, it means they can't really ever estimate when they might be able to do HD, so I don't believe their October date.

For KRMA-DT, my signal strength increase has been dramatic and for me it was a huge "upgrade".

As I mentioned previously, here it went from unreceivable to almost as strong as any of the LOM stations.

Now if only there was actual HD content…

DBS has and likely will continue to have far more HD channels than Comcast. So if you want more HD channels, then go DBS.

As to PQ, it seems to vary over time as each vendor's system reaches saturation and they over-compress until they get more bandwidth/capability. Right now, Dish probably has the best HD PQ, while last year it was DirecTV and a couple of years ago it was Comcast. I don't see how Comcast can stay up with the DBS capabilities and capacity. I've seen Comcast's current HD, but not on the same quality sets that I get Dish on at home, so it may be more the set than the provider. In any event, the Comcast PQ wasn't nearly as sharp as the Dish PQ I view on my HDTVs.

With the cost of Comcast and the limited number of HD channels I would never go back to Comcast (I left in 1999 after almost 20 years with cable). When I'm looking to upgrade, I do look at DirecTV and compare their offerings to what offers Dish might give me.

I have to agree with you here Comcast coax has limited bandwidth capability. Only FIOS can really compete with sat. - especially in the future. The fact that he feels his cable picture is better has to be a tv [setting or display technology]related issue - and possibly connections (HDMI vs component etc).

Directv has the capability to deliver picture in 1080p and also has the NFL package that is unique. It also has lots more sports than most other services. On the other hand Dish has the ability to feed several tvs from their receivers.

Another factor to look at is the ability to bundle ones services to save [i.e. Internet and TV and phone] so one should look at that with Qwest, Dish, and Comcast.

I like how Directv has all the HD channels next to the SD channels rather than the way Comcast makes you learn to have dual sets of channel numbers -one for HD and one for SD. [In fact Directv has a option to hid the SD channel if the HD channel is a duplicate of the SD - so that the menu does not get cluttered with duplicates]

No one has any info on when the old towers might start being dismantled?

Is anyone else getting anything on KQCK? I still show a signal, same strength as always, but for the last two days it has been nothing but a blank screen.

Maybe the Lake Cedar Group guy would know. I don't remember his name right now.

I know it is OT, but some sports fans might care.
Altitude TV is going all HD for Nuggets and Avalanche this year.

http://www.altitude.tv/announcements/default.aspx?ID=BpGC1utB9Y8=

Nobody has heard anything regarding when KDVR and KWGN DTV upgrades will be completed? Those are lot more significant to metro viewers than anything KRMA does (i.e., "24", Fringe, NFL football, reruns of 2-1/2 Men).

My current KDVR reception is adequate though volatile. My KWGN reception has always been a problem due to multi-path that my Dish receiver can't handle, though my other ATSC tuners seemed to be able to stay locked on them. I've been waiting for those two to complete their efforts before I make my "final" antenna system adjustments/changes for the DTV-age.

In their DTV Transition Plan Update http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/entry/434/UPDATE:-Our-DTV-transition-plan-they said:

I have never found anything that authorized them to be at 315KW ERP so I don't know how reliable that posting is.

I also have not been able to figure out which, if any, of their FCC filings is linked to the latest change. The last approved FCC 340 Construction Permit I could find: BPEDT 20080617ACF GRANTED 07/25/2008 does not exactly match the old Analog 20 site we think they are operating from. The tower description is wrong (too short) and the location is not quite right either. Since that stuff is wrong, I don't know whether this is the actual FCC filing they relied on to install the new equipment. I don't know whether we can trust the antenna description in that filing either. The pattern of the new antenna is probably directional. The polar plot in the filing puts me at about 98% while it predicts 72% for someone at 70 degrees from the transmitter and 100% for someone at 100 degrees. I have no idea if this matches the antenna they are actually using.

If they really went to 1MW ERP, I would have thought that would increase the signal strength you would get, but the new antenna could possibly be providing reflected signals to your location, that wipe out the benefit of the increased power. If you are at all concerned that you may have problems, you should probably notify them of your observations. Maybe there is an antenna pattern problem. KCNC had a pattern problem when they installed the antenna I believe they are currently using.

They do seem to have made things much better for some who were getting extremely weak signals and were in their predicted coverage area. At least, I have not seen anyone post that it got worse.

Well, using my exact location coordinates, I'm at 24 degrees true from the location TVFool uses for KRMA. TVFool also shows me at LOS for current and final DTV from KRMA. It does show KTFD to have a slightly stronger signal (NM) than KRMA (68.4 dB vs. 66.7dB). Oddly, it also shows KTFD to be 2 tenths of a mile further away than KRMA (11.4 vs. 11.2), which doesn't make much sense unless they are using KRMA's ice bridge location.

I know it is OT, but some sports fans might care.
Altitude TV is going all HD for Nuggets and Avalanche this year.

http://www.altitude.tv/announcements/default.aspx?ID=BpGC1utB9Y8=

That is good news. I really don't watch that many of their games and I never watch their games in SD, so this should up my viewership. Too bad Altitude is only on pay TV, but that is direction everything is heading. In another 20 years, OTA broadcast TV will probably be nothing but reality shows, game shows, and home shopping networks. All major sports and first run drama will be on pay TV.

Is anyone else getting anything on KQCK? I still show a signal, same strength as always, but for the last two days it has been nothing but a blank screen.
Their satellite lost signal acquisition, again. It's been that way for at least five days. (It's a real hoot when the gray screen displays "No Signal" or "Searching for Signal.") For that matter, its companion Class A station in Aurora, KQDK on channel 39, has been MIA for longer than that.

KQCK filed a transfer-of-ownership form (https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101324192&formid=314&fac_num=18287) with the FCC. The underlying paperwork suggests the bank that acquired both stations in Equity Media's bankruptcy has formed a holding company called VB Denver LLC (for Valley Bank, apparently, since it's also located in Davenport, Iowa). Perhaps they'll finally make something out of that station. Interestingly, there's no such filing for KQDK, even though the bank owns both.

Anyone heard anything regarding KDVR and KWGN finishing their DTV upgrades. Didn't they say August in their crawls for the past couple of months?

Their crawls and commercial spots are still saying the end of August.

Well, using my exact location coordinates, I'm at 24 degrees true from the location TVFool uses for KRMA. TVFool also shows me at LOS for current and final DTV from KRMA. It does show KTFD to have a slightly stronger signal (NM) than KRMA (68.4 dB vs. 66.7dB). Oddly, it also shows KTFD to be 2 tenths of a mile further away than KRMA (11.4 vs. 11.2), which doesn't make much sense unless they are using KRMA's ice bridge location.
This location issue is part of what I was talking about. I have not been able to locate a filing for the antenna at the top of the old Analog 20 tower. I can only speculate that TV Fool is having the same problem. I believe the filing I found was for a new low-profile tower that was to be put up under a building permit authorized by Jeffco on April 1, 2008. I have never seen anything to indicate that any construction ever took place under that permit. KPXC was also supposed to be part of that project, but they moved to the KDEN tower which is within a few miles of Firestone and Dacona.

In a tangentially related issue, on Monday, since it was the second cool day in a row, I did some attic antenna work. Although many will tell you it cannot work, I have been feeding 2 antennas into the Combo input of my CM7777 pre-amp for some time. (I have set the option switch to disable the other input on the pre-amp.) One antenna is a VHF/UHF/FM suburban rated combo antenna that I purchased when I moved to Colorado in 1990 and is pointed essentially due south. I think it was a Radio Shack. The other is a Radio Shack U-75R UHF only antenna that I added so I could get the stations from Republic Plaza. The 2 antennas seem to be fairly well matched, and I used identical 6 ft cables to connect them to a cheap 2 way splitter hooked up backwards as a combiner and connected to the Combo input on the pre-amp. Fortunately, I had mounted the UHF antenna on a hinge so I was able to swing it from SSE to just a little west of south when KRMA moved to the Ice Bridge. That allowed me to get KRMA and KBDI digital most of the time. Now that KRMA has cleaned up its act and KBDI has moved to VHF, the combo antenna gets them fine as well as all Lookout Mountain stations and KWHD (in Parker I think). My only problem was KPXC which sometimes shows reruns, like NCIS, or a movie that I might enjoy watching. A south facing antenna was not getting much signal to my TVs, and my Philips 42PF7320 which has an ATSC tuner that is probably at least a 5 year old design could not get KPXC with any reliability. Since I no longer needed the signal from the UHF antenna to get the PBS stations, I re-mounted the UHF antenna so I could swing it in northerly directions. I set it to about 60 degrees which is roughly ENE and now KPXC is booming in on the Philips TV. My reception of the southern stations is the same, whether I connect just the combo antenna directly to the pre-amp, or use the 2 antennas in combination. I realize I am lucky to get this to work. The antennas needed to have similar characteristics in the UHF band where I need them to both pick up signals, and I don't seem to be getting any strong reflected, out of phase, signals being picked up by the antenna pointed in the wrong direction for the station I am actually tuned to.

Their crawls and commercial spots are still saying the end of August.

What are they upgrading?

Obviously both have been transmitting beautiful HD for years now, and I thought both were at or near full power already.

Both are getting power increases (to 1000 kW), getting moved to higher spots on their towers, and going omni directional.

- Trip

Got a strong lock on 18-1 at 80%, which doesn't surprise me since I always got a rock solid signal from 14-1 on the same tower. Maybe they will show some HD again, it has been so long I almost forgot they once "had" the best picture quality in town.

This is interesting. They (KDVR and KWGN ) are the two highest signals I get from LOM already (high 90s on the scale). I wonder whose antenna will be lowered to accomodate the two that are getting raised?
I sure hope KUSA will not be disadvantaged. They already give me a sometimes flaky signal.

I am surprised that SCARE is not screaming about their teeth, toasters, garage doors, and mutant kids...
:)

Phil


Both are getting power increases (to 1000 kW), getting moved to higher spots on their towers, and going omni directional.

- Trip

This is interesting. They (KDVR and KWGN ) are the two highest signals I get from LOM already (high 90s on the scale). I wonder whose antenna will be lowered to accomodate the two that are getting raised?

I would guess they're removing the analog antennas that are now doing nothing.

- Trip

That is a good thought. I had forgotten about those antennas.

Phil

I would guess they're removing the analog antennas that are now doing nothing.

- Trip

This is interesting. They (KDVR and KWGN ) are the two highest signals I get from LOM already (high 90s on the scale). I wonder whose antenna will be lowered to accomodate the two that are getting raised?
I sure hope KUSA will not be disadvantaged. They already give me a sometimes flaky signal.

I am surprised that SCARE is not screaming about their teeth, toasters, garage doors, and mutant kids...
:)

Phil

KWGN and KDVR will be on their own tower(s) and not on the LCG LOM tower that KUSA is on, so what they are doing shouldn't have any affect on other channels/broadcasters.

I, for one, look forward to getting a reliable (no or little multi-path) signal from KWGN when their antenna is higher up and not shadowed by by surrounding terrain and terrain between them and me. TVFool has alway listed KWGN as LOS for me, but multi-path problems have existed for me with every tuner I've used since January 2003.

I also look forward to getting a strong signal from KDVR with little or no amplification, which is currently required to keep a good lock on the channel (90/100 with pre-amp; 60+/100 w/o pre-amp).

This is interesting. They (KDVR and KWGN ) are the two highest signals I get from LOM already (high 90s on the scale).

Neither one has been serving me up here in Fort Collins for awhile now. KDVR was simply gone for many weeks, but has been OK for a month or so; since there is so much Fox with KFCT and KLWY, that had been OK. KWGN has usually been too weak to lock for some months for me now, though it used to be pretty strong - it came in on my old attic antenna in January. I'm hoping for better when they are done.

Neither one has been serving me up here in Fort Collins for awhile now. KDVR was simply gone for many weeks, but has been OK for a month or so; since there is so much Fox with KFCT and KLWY, that had been OK. KWGN has usually been too weak to lock for some months for me now, though it used to be pretty strong - it came in on my old attic antenna in January. I'm hoping for better when they are done.

I haven't seen any real changes in levels for KWGN or KDVR. KDVR has always been very strong for me here, and KWGN is right up there also. KFCT and KLWY fade in and out for me, because they are both behind my antenna, and my antenna is mounted on a corner of my chimney, so it partially blocks reception in that direction, especially for KGWN from Cheyenne, because their antenna is more to the west than KLWY's and my antenna is mounted on the south east corner of the chimney. The second story of my house also blocks reception in the direction of the KFCT antenna. I actually got better UHF reception from the rear on my high VHF antenna when I tried that experiment during installation. Some day I am going to get a second preamp and hook each antenna to a different tuner input on my HD HomeRun, because my high VHF antenna behaves as a somewhat omnidirectional UHF antenna, and it is mounted above the chimney. It has much better reception of UHF stations that my UHF antenna is not pointed at, but my UHF antenna performs better for UHF stations that it is pointed at. I don't really care that much about KFCT and KLWY, but I would like to be able to get KGWN (for Northern Colorado news) and KPXC (for reruns and possible mobile DTV experimentation) reliably.

I'm not sure why I don't get KPXC reliably, since I get other stations from that antenna with no problems (KPJR and KDEN, neither of which has much interest for me).

Atmospherics must have been good last night, because my scanning software captured a minute of perfect video from KRNE in Nebraska, and just enough corrupted content from KBSL in Goodland, Kansas to identify the station and get some psip data. This is the second time I've gotten some signal from KRNE, but last time it was badly corrupted.

KRNE is a PBS station, and they are broadcasting HD. They are dedicating 13 Mbps of bandwidth to the HD channel, which is more than KUSA is doing (currently at 12 Mbps, and possibly going to go lower if they add Mobile DTV programming like they plan to do). KRNE only dedicates 2 Mbps each to their other 2 subchannels: PBS World and PBS Create. Perhaps it's politically incorrect to say so, but I know I'd much prefer to have PBS World than V-Me (although I'd actually prefer they drop one or both subchannels and just dedicate the bandwidth to the HD channel once they start broadcasting in HD). Since KRMA is viewer supported, I wonder if they ever would think to actually ask their viewers what they would prefer in terms of programming selection?

Perhaps it's politically incorrect to say so, but I know I'd much prefer to have PBS World than V-Me (although I'd actually prefer they drop one or both subchannels and just dedicate the bandwidth to the HD channel once they start broadcasting in HD). Since KRMA is viewer supported, I wonder if they ever would think to actually ask their viewers what they would prefer in terms of programming selection?

RMPBS (KRMA) is Government television and they know what is best for you.

Since KRMA is viewer supported, I wonder if they ever would think to actually ask their viewers what they would prefer in terms of programming
selection?

The next board meeting is this Wednesday, August 26, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. Location is 1089 Bannock Street, Denver, CO, 80204. I am trying to clear my calendar so that I can go.

If you want to come along, I'd be happy to share a ride. If not, I'll be happy to take any messages to the board if I am in fact able to go.

The next scheduled board meeting is in December.


Jim McCauley

The next board meeting is this Wednesday, August 26, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. Location is 1089 Bannock Street, Denver, CO, 80204. I am trying to clear my calendar so that I can go.

If you want to come along, I'd be happy to share a ride. If not, I'll be happy to take any messages to the board if I am in fact able to go.

The next scheduled board meeting is in December.
Jim McCauley

That time doesn't work for me, but thanks for the invite. What I'm really looking for is for RMPBS to send a survey to their supporters, and ask them questions regarding programming, tradeoffs of quality/content, etc. Not just open ended questions, since many viewers may not know what the tradeoffs are, but give some explanation regarding how additional subchannels affect HD content (assuming they ever get there). Also, explain what PBS content is out there besides V-Me or Create.

If you do go, and actually get to talk to someone technical, find out why they need to actually edit/modify their 4:3 content to 16:9, rather than buying something that will just allow that conversion to happen automatically as they broadcast it (this technology exists in a $40 CECB, certainly their is some studio quality converter they can buy for ~$1000, but I really have no idea). I've got to believe that something relatively cheap exists to do that (cheaper than HD equipment, and certainly cheaper than the time they are spending converting content manually).

Any details regarding what equipment is still missing to enable them to do HD, and what the current projections for getting to that point are would be great.

If you do go, and actually get to talk to someone technical, find out why they need to actually edit/modify their 4:3 content to 16:9, rather than buying something that will just allow that conversion to happen automatically as they broadcast it (this technology exists in a $40 CECB, certainly their is some studio quality converter they can buy for ~$1000, but I really have no idea). I've got to believe that something relatively cheap exists to do that (cheaper than HD equipment, and certainly cheaper than the time they are spending converting content manually).

You could always try posting your concerns at the RMPBS Tech Talk (http://www.rmpbs.org/panorama/index.cfm/tag/Tech-Talk) page. Their Production Manager, Tom Craig is pretty good about responding to specific questions and seems open to suggestions.

Hey, has anyone else noticed that "The Rundown" HD margin filler on the right edge of the 9News newscast screen? It looks like they're trying to emulate a newsy home page, giving the upcoming news stories in short 2-line headlines.
Is it just me, or is this truly annoying, and defeating the purpose of the 16 x 9 wide format?
Isn't the lower crawl bad enough? What's next? Live viewer Twitter feeds down the left side?

Yeah. Last night I told my wife we ought to give 4 ot 7 a try for news. The filler is very annoying. I plan to send 9News an email today telling them that the Rundown sucks.

Yeah. Last night I told my wife we ought to give 4 ot 7 a try for news. The filler is very annoying. I plan to send 9News an email today telling them that the Rundown sucks.

Agreed! Fox News started doing that when they went HD and it is a waste of widescreen space. At least Fox News cuts it off for their major personality driven shows.

OTOH, maybe 9News is doing this so they can back the camera away and don't have to do close ups on Adele's wrinkles (just kidding). Whatever the reason, if they can't come up with a better use of widescreen TV, maybe they should just go back to the 4:3 ratio.

Glad to hear that annoyance with "The Rundown" isn't just at my casa. It's clear that mass dissatisfaction needs to be registered with KUSA if this trend is to be nipped in the bud; they seem to think they have discovered a popular feature. Here's the response I got from their VP of News this morning:

"Thank you for the feedback on The Rundown. We are experimenting with the HD space to let viewers know what is coming up in each newscast. We did a great deal of research on this content and found most viewers like the idea of knowing what stories are still to come so as not to miss an important or interesting story. We know viewers are busy with interruptions while trying to watch the news at home so this is a tool to keep everyone informed of the stories scheduled for air.
As I said, we are still experimenting with the concept and your feedback will be included in our discussions. Thank you again for the honest feedback.
Patti Dennis
VP/News KUSA"

Here was my response:
"Ms. Dennis --
Managing interruptions? Isn't this what commercial blocks are for?
I should let you know I also sent this complaint to Joanne Ostrow at the Denver Post, alerting her to the "more Web-like" slope you seem to be on.
Please believe me when I say you don't need to be like a browser screen -- when we step away from my computers, which we're staring at all day most days, my girlfriend and I need a rest from the excessive visual clutter and information overload. We've enjoyed the open, clean look of your newscasts since we started watching in 1080i on our 40" 16 x 9 screen over two years ago. We've learned to ignore the flashing of the lower crawls and have relished the wide view above them. This Rundown, however, seems to defeat the purpose of having a wide format, especially over a weather globe or HD video shot of a news event or sports highlight.
To be blunt, you're re-cramping the picture. I'm one of those people who NEVER bought or accepted a "Standard Screen" 4 x 3 DVD, because that's not the shape of the medium. And there are many discerning viewers out there like me. It's just too much clutter, and it not only distracts from any other text data on the screen, it pulls attention away by having to process what those short, two-deck headlines might actually mean. Can't those be flashed between stories or before commercial breaks? Do they have to be up there constantly?
Combined with the fact that we never plan to watch the Jay Leno 9 p.m. lead-in this Fall, this could be the deal-breaker that drives us over to KCNC for good, before Letterman.
A newscast is not a Web page. Please don't try to be some sort of hybrid -- it'll just be a mess. Seriously."

I like the rundown section, but only during the anchor shots. Once they go to a field shot, story, weather, etc., I'd rather get the full experience.

OTOH, I will complain about the horrible PQ during the track and field events over the weekend on 9-1. Compared with the coverage during the week on VS (via Comcast, which probably is doing some compression of its own), 9's was awful. I love the concept of 9-3 - it's great content, but it looks like a YouTube video, often sounds worse, and takes away from 9-1.

I got the exact same canned response from Patti Dennis. Looking closely, I don't think they are changing the aspect ratio for the scroll... it overlays the edge of the full 16:9 picture.

Anyway, I told them we would be watching 4 or 7 now to get a full 16:9 display. Maybe they will think about this "great" idea some more. I don't like it.. even for the reasons she stated.

Most viewers, Patti? I don't think so! Who are all those viewers that you supoosedly asked? To be frank and honest, KUSA is going downhill rapidly IMHO. The huge amount of blocking on programs like America's Got Talent. The annoying warning sound several seconds prior to a weather warning. The excessively long time the weather warning scrolling occurs. The vertical squeezing of the picture. The 9News intrusions. The excessive snipes. The list goes on. Like many others, I've just about had it with KUSA. You need to fire whoever it is that thinks its OK to keep f**king up the picture quality and bombarding us with snipes, etc.

what has happened to KFCT I have been out of town and the seem to have dropped off the face of the earth the have always been strong for me and KDVR has had issues I also noticed that KQCK is MIA again

I got the exact same canned response from Patti Dennis. Looking closely, I don't think they are changing the aspect ratio for the scroll... it overlays the edge of the full 16:9 picture.

Anyway, I told them we would be watching 4 or 7 now to get a full 16:9 display. Maybe they will think about this "great" idea some more. I don't like it.. even for the reasons she stated.

What is their email address?

I sent my comments to these three email addresses:

comments@9news.com; technology@9news.com; programming@9news.com

The return email was from kusa@9news.com

what has happened to KFCT I have been out of town and the seem to have dropped off the face of the earth the have always been strong for me and KDVR has had issues I also noticed that KQCK is MIA again

I'd like to know as well. KFCT is gone, I can't get it all now. KDVR is all blocky as well. With the pre-amp I'd been getting both pretty well with KFCT being very clear.

I can't help but believe they're putting "The Rundown" in so that their newscasts don't show the softening that is occurring due to the bandwidth stolen for 9-2 and 9-3.

IMHO KUSA should be embarassed when their newscasts look noticeably sharper on 20-1 than 9-1, but this latest addition shows they really don't give a #$@! anyway.

I'd like to know as well. KFCT is gone, I can't get it all now. KDVR is all blocky as well. With the pre-amp I'd been getting both pretty well with KFCT being very clear.

I haven't had any problem receiving KDVR in Fort Collins. KFCT's signal strength dropped significantly at around 5pm on 8/22, and then they went off the air at 7:30 pm. I know at one time they planned to move their transmitter from their current location NE of Fort Collins to a location west of Fort Collins. Perhaps they are actually doing that, but the signal strength drop would indicate some type of equipment failure or switchover to a backup transmitter.

The norm for KQCK is for it to be off the air or transmitting a black screen. They've been transmitting a black screen (or someone else mentioned seeing a "Lost Signal" message sometimes) for quite a while. They went off the air completely around 3:30 pm on 8/25.

I also provided negative feedback for the Rundown and recieved the same canned response.

I also emailed my complaint to all 3 email addresses and got the same canned response.

For those of us that have worked in the corporate world, it isn't surprising. Upper management will seldom if ever acknowledge a mistake was made with their approval or perhaps it is even their own idea. The classic example was the Saturn division of GM. While it was a loser from the word go, it was top management's baby and thus they shut down Oldsmobile in 2004 (decision was made in late 2001 or early 2002), which was profitable, instead of Saturn. Ultimately, during bankruptcy, the new top management, which had little stake in the Saturn decisions, let it go.

The bottom line is someone higher up in KUSA made the decision or came up with the idea of "The Rundown", so it will take disastrous ratings or an avalanche of complaints to get the decision re-evaluated. That, or we wait for a top management change at KUSA.

Just my 2 cents.

At least "The Rundown" only affects their newscasts. I'm much more offended by the weather alerts on KUSA/KTVD which take up the bottom third of the screen, and if that wasn't bad enough, they recently added an annoying sound affect. They seem to go out of their way to irritate their viewers as much as possible.

In my opinion, the only station that handles weather alerts properly is KWGN. They just put a one line crawl at the bottom of the screen. No squishovision, no sound effects, just the facts. Why can't all of the stations do that?

I haven't had any problem receiving KDVR in Fort Collins. KFCT's signal strength dropped significantly at around 5pm on 8/22, and then they went off the air at 7:30 pm. I know at one time they planned to move their transmitter from their current location NE of Fort Collins to a location west of Fort Collins. Perhaps they are actually doing that, but the signal strength drop would indicate some type of equipment failure or switchover to a backup transmitter.

The norm for KQCK is for it to be off the air or transmitting a black screen. They've been transmitting a black screen (or someone else mentioned seeing a "Lost Signal" message sometimes) for quite a while. They went off the air completely around 3:30 pm on 8/25.

I've never picked up KQCK. The irony has been that despite the fact I much closer to LOM the mtn curve between Boulder and Golden has always meant I get a better signal for KFCT than KDVR, analog or digital. I haven't been able to ever get a lock on KWGN digital though the old analog signal came in just fine. I've been hoping that after all their work this month I'd be able to pick it up along with a stronger lock on KDVR. Otherwise I'll have to upgrade the roof antenna, and I've been avoiding that:D

I've never picked up KQCK. The irony has been that despite the fact I much closer to LOM the mtn curve between Boulder and Golden has always meant I get a better signal for KFCT than KDVR, analog or digital. I haven't been able to ever get a lock on KWGN digital though the old analog signal came in just fine. I've been hoping that after all their work this month I'd be able to pick it up along with a stronger lock on KDVR. Otherwise I'll have to upgrade the roof antenna, and I've been avoiding that:D

I suspect that you actually have LOS to KFCT's transmitter NE of Fort Collins. If they actually move to the foothills west of Fort Collins then you may lose LOS, which means they will probably be worse than KDVR for you, even if they gain antenna height and power. But that is speculation, you'd need to go to a site like TV Fool to determine for sure, assuming that the FCC information for both sites is correct (they have a CP for the new site).

KQCK is already in the foothills west of Fort Collins, which may explain your problems receiving them, although they are not very strong. Still, others in the Denver area can receive them, but they may have LOS.

Here's a link to a short RMPBS promotional video regarding the upcoming fall season and a look at the people of the programming/production department.

http://www.rmpbs.org/watchnow/module.cfm?series=121

I rescanned all my channels and now get most of the locals except for KCNC DT-4. Anybody know why? I'm running Mythbuntu, and it shows 100%, but only partial lock. With all the other channels that tune in at 100%, I get a full lock.

I rescanned all my channels and now get most of the locals except for KCNC DT-4. Anybody know why? I'm running Mythbuntu, and it shows 100%, but only partial lock. With all the other channels that tune in at 100%, I get a full lock.

You might need to reaim your antenna slightly; it could just be that something near you is bouncing KCNC's signal causing multipath that your tuner can't deal with.

When KRMA upped its power, we totally lost EWTN (23-1 through 4). We don't even get a whiff.
Did they got off the air, or did something else happen at my end?
Thanks, Greg

KDEO's DTV signal has been known to conk out now and again, but they usually have the station back up and running in less than a day. They were on-air last I checked, which was last night during prime time.

KDEO may not be on channel 23 much longer, though. KCDO-Sterling is also assigned to that channel; as a full-power station, it has the right to be free from interference by low-power operations like KDEO. KCDO does plan to acquire a full-power transmitter and erect an antenna; once it's on the air at full power, its service area will include much of Aurora, which is KDEO's city of license. KDEO's current temporary authority to use channel 23 expires Oct. 22, though a further extension might well be granted if KCDO isn't ready to go by then. KDEO is prepared for being bumped: The FCC has granted its request to operate on channel 50, which was KCEC's analog assignment, when it loses channel 23. Maybe you'll get it back then.

Is there a schedule for the KCDO tower/antenna to be completed?

Is there a schedule for the KCDO tower/antenna to be completed?
None is mentioned in the paperwork. The FCC has a general deadline for acting on a construction permit; don't know what it is specifically, but it's at least three years. Of course, these things are about as cut and dried as quicksand: Nothing prevents a station from seeking extension after extension amid "unforeseen circumstances," and the agency grants these extension requests far more often than it denies them. So the best answer to your question is, "Who knows?" -- particularly in an economy like this.

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned KUSA's HD during the broadcast of the Broncos game Sunday night or maybe no one else was as foolish as me to didn't watch the game in the first place. Anyway, the PQ was definitely bit-starved. Every time they did a stadium stands shot, the fine detail in the stands was a mass of tiny dots constantly changing colors by waves. I have not seen that on any of the other NFL games on either Fox or KCNC. It would appear that supporting 9-3 is the straw that broke the camel's back and now there just isn't enough bit rate left for good, live, HD on 9-1. I sure hope there aren't many good games this season on Sunday Night Football as it is very disappointing to watch the poor quality of KUSA's HD for NFL games.

I agree, the PQ on 9-1 for the Broncos game was terrible. Of course, they own KTVD, which has no subchannels but also (IMO) nothing to watch.

I agree, the PQ on 9-1 for the Broncos game was terrible. Of course, they own KTVD, which has no subchannels but also (IMO) nothing to watch.

Yes, I pondered some months, years (?) back why the station ownership didn't make better use of KTVD by putting the 9News Weather Channel on it as a sub-channel. I'm sure they have their reasons, but I think last Sunday night put to rest any argument they had regarding their equipment being able to prioritize bit streams between 9-1 and the sub-channels w/o affecting HD PQ on 9-1.

This station is clearly going down hill along with The Rundown (they do seem to be using it less lately or am I just imagining it). With Leno gone from late night, our hours of viewing KUSA have dropped off as has our routine of tuning to KUSA for 10 o'clock news. KCNC is looking better all the time; although, I can't stand Letterman any more than I can stand Conan. However, come Fall, KCNC definitely has a better prime time line up than KUSA, then again, so does Fox.

My note to KUSA, sent late last week. No reply as of yet.

My primary reason for writing is the poor picture quality of channel 9-1. While watching track and field events last weekend, I noticed that there was a lot of pixelization during the tracking shots of the track runners. I don't recall seeing anything similar on VS HD earlier in the week, when they broadcast some of these events. These problems occur occasionally on other channels, but nowhere near as often as on 9. Sports programming is most affected. I can't help but think that this is primarily due to the two sub-channels you have. I love the idea of 9-3, Universal Sports, because it broadcasts a lot of sports I like. But the picture quality is horrendous - watching a YouTube video on a 61" TV really sucks. The blocking is awful, and I've had occasions where even the audio was garbled. It appears to me that trying to support two sub-channels and one HD is adversely affecting all three (although the PQ of 9-2 doesn't matter much to me). Since you own channel 20 as well, why not move one of the sub-channels over there? That wouldn't affect the channel location on Comcast, and you could probably find a way to have it show up as 9-3 OTA.

Yep, I sent the same type of message to KUSA a few months ago.
No reply.
Everybody, let's keep sending those messages.

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned KUSA's HD during the broadcast of the Broncos game Sunday night or maybe no one else was as foolish as me to didn't watch the game in the first place. Anyway, the PQ was definitely bit-starved. Every time they did a stadium stands shot, the fine detail in the stands was a mass of tiny dots constantly changing colors by waves. I have not seen that on any of the other NFL games on either Fox or KCNC. It would appear that supporting 9-3 is the straw that broke the camel's back and now there just isn't enough bit rate left for good, live, HD on 9-1. I sure hope there aren't many good games this season on Sunday Night Football as it is very disappointing to watch the poor quality of KUSA's HD for NFL games.Agreed, bf we commented every time KUSA's HD picture looks like crap this thread would be a whole lot more negative and longer than it already is. KUSA's picture goes to pot any time there is much motion or picture complexity. Its rubbish!

Let's face it, KUSA just doesn't give a #$@!; the only thing that will change their ways is a mass exodus of viewers, and you and I know Broncos fans won't stop watching even if the picture is one giant orange block in the middle of the screen. :(

As far as PQ goes, you can see the vast improvement every morning when the news moves from 9-1 over to 20-1.

But management believes they need 43 streams on their "flagship" channel, so it shall be done.

It's not like management actually watches the station anyway.

Agreed, bf we commented every time KUSA's HD picture looks like crap this thread would be a whole lot more negative and longer than it already is. KUSA's picture goes to pot any time there is much motion or picture complexity. Its rubbish!

I made the point about KUSA's Sunday Night Football broadcast of the Broncos game because the HD PQ was significantly degraded from what I saw on their Sunday Night Football broadcasts last season. I know that many on this thread have been upset with KUSA's Sunday Night Football broadcasts for some time, but what I saw last Sunday was a significant decline in HD PQ from last season.

I can only guess that trying to make channel 9-3 look better than YouTube video has decreased the available bit rate to 9-1 to the point that their "bit rate prioritizing/channeling hardware and software" can no longer adequately compensate for bit starving HD on 9-1. But, since I don't have any equipment that monitors what is actually taking place on KUSA, it is just my guess and my opinion.

Let's face it, KUSA just doesn't give a #$@!; the only thing that will change their ways is a mass exodus of viewers, and you and I know Broncos fans won't stop watching even if the picture is one giant orange block in the middle of the screen. :(

As far as PQ goes, you can see the vast improvement every morning when the news moves from 9-1 over to 20-1.

Yes, I agree. Since I recently started following 9News over to My20 in the mornings the improvement in HD PQ on My20 is obvious to even the causal observer.

BTW, I'm following 9News to My20 at 8 AM because my morning news choices at that hour have become so limited. I've given up on AM on the Duece as I'm now 63 years old and KWGN has oriented that broadcast to those about 45 years younger than me. Channel 4 at 8 AM isn't HD or local. Channel 7 has the always boring GMA. The Today Show on channel 9 slips into the hausfrau mode for the second hour, and I just don't like the way Fox presents the morning news. Something about Fox in the AM just grates.

My scanning software says that KPXC's primary subchannel (59.1) switched to 720p at 2pm today. I haven't had a chance to check it out, but if you're gonna have a bunch of subchannels along with HD, 720p is certainly the better way to go. I'll be curious to see what the PQ is like.

EDIT: They switched back to 480i at 3 pm, so I guess it was just a test. But I know that the ION network plans to have a primary HD channel on all their stations (they already have a HD subchannel in some of their markets), so I'm sure it is coming soon.

My scanning software says that KPXC's primary subchannel (59.1) switched to 720p at 2pm today. I haven't had a chance to check it out, but if you're gonna have a bunch of subchannels along with HD, 720p is certainly the better way to go. I'll be curious to see what the PQ is like.

EDIT: They switched back to 480i at 3 pm, so I guess it was just a test. But I know that the ION network plans to have a primary HD channel on all their stations (they already have a HD subchannel in some of their markets), so I'm sure it is coming soon.

Wow, HD on KPXC! If they in fact do provide HD, I just may be incentivized to throw up another antenna in the attic to pick up their signal (i.e., they are almost directly behind my current antennas pointed at LOM, so I don't get a whiff of their signal).

One more possible thing on my list of "final" adjustments to my OTA reception system. I've been waiting for KWGN and KDVR to finish their changes before I braved the climb into the hot attic. Weren't they supposed to finish those changes in August?

I've been waiting for KWGN and KDVR to finish their changes before I braved the climb into the hot attic. Weren't they supposed to finish those changes in August?
That's what they had been saying in those regular crawls since the transition, but I'm not so sure after last night. KDVR, which normally streams at a 96/100 signal level here after dark, averaged 60 last night, although it didn't make a difference in PQ as only readings below 30 become problematic. KWGN was at its normal 92.

That's what they had been saying in those regular crawls since the transition, but I'm not so sure after last night. KDVR, which normally streams at a 96/100 signal level here after dark, averaged 60 last night, although it didn't make a difference in PQ as only readings below 30 become problematic. KWGN was at its normal 92.

I emailed KDVR yesterday and asked if they were finished with their DTV transition. I've yet to receive a reply.

You might need to reaim your antenna slightly; it could just be that something near you is bouncing KCNC's signal causing multipath that your tuner can't deal with.

I realigned my antenna in several directions of about a 100 degree radius (from slightly south of west to slightly east of north - the range I could point the VHF dipoles without sticking into the hall or hitting a wall) without getting a better lock on KCNC. TVFool.com shows that most stations (probably all those on Lookout Mt.) 7, 9, KWGN 2.1, KDVR 31.1, KTVD 20.1 as well as KCNC 4.1 are on an axis about 5 degrees north of due west, where I had my antenna, UHF as well as one VHF dipole pointed. I also played around with lowering and raising amplification without much success, other than lowering too much lowering my signals significantly. KCNC 35 is UHF, however, I have no problem tuning KDVR 32 (31.1) or KTVD 19 (20.1) at 100%

Anyone else able to get KCNC to tune in or have a similar problem?

This is just a stinker keeping me from abandoning cable as KCNC is the HD Broncos channel.

I'm 53 miles almost due south of the LOM transmitters. On a Channel Master 7000 box I get 7, 9 and 20 all at 80% or better. I was getting KCNC at about 30%, not enough to lock a clean signal but I could tell what was on. I now get no signal at all for KCNC but no change for the other channels. I get the Colo Springs channels off Dish in HD so I never watched CBS out of Denver but it seems like I was getting some signal as of about two weeks ago.

I'm about 20 miles due east of the LOM transmitters. A few years ago, while they were still broadcasting from Republic Towers downtown at low signal strength (about 8 miles due NW of me), I temporarily bought an STB (the Samsung that there's a huge thread on here) to test DTV reception before I went out and spent a bundle building an HTPC, and I seem to recall getting a Broncos game on KCNC, although it was spotty at times - I think I got the big 3 local networks around 60-80% then using an un-amplified VHF/UHF antenna.

KCNC has been my most problematic signal from the LCG tower on LOM since they moved there. When KDVR and KWGN get done messing around with their DTV hardware, I'm going to change some antenna pointing azimuths and the use of amplification in hopes of improving KCNC and KWGN. Everything else among the majors, save KRMA, is coming in quite strong and steady, though KUSA's HD continues to deteriorate. The weather guy on KUSA's morning news Saturday was doing a live "HD" feed from the Taste of Colorado and it was so bad it looked like SD.

KCNC has always been one of my strongest signals (90%) using an unamplified indoor antenna. I'm about 20 miles south east of LOM but roughly 1000 feet higher than downtown, so I'm sure the altitude helps.

I'm about 20 miles due east of the LOM transmitters. A few years ago, while they were still broadcasting from Republic Towers downtown at low signal strength (about 8 miles due NW of me), I temporarily bought an STB (the Samsung that there's a huge thread on here) to test DTV reception before I went out and spent a bundle building an HTPC, and I seem to recall getting a Broncos game on KCNC, although it was spotty at times - I think I got the big 3 local networks around 60-80% then using an un-amplified VHF/UHF antenna.

Could you give us a few more details regarding your setup? What antenna(s) are you using? Antenna preamp? distribution amp? Is an outdoor antenna installation a possibility?

Except for when they moved to a new antenna on LOM that turned out to have issues, I've never had any problems receiving KCNC from LOM or RP except when I tried to pick up RP via a pair of rabbit ears.

I checked earlier today and their signal level for me is 98%, as usual.

I am trying to scan the the local HD channels in the Denver area, I can pick up everything but 7-1 KMGH, and 9-1 KUSA, those channels never appear in my channel list as scanned channels. I am not sure if I am the only one having these issues, I thought channel 4-1 and 31-1(which I pick up fine) were being broadcast from the same tower on Lookout Mountain? Anyone has a suggestion I am using a Samsung HL-S4666W DLP TV to receive the channels and I am residing in Northglenn. Thank you.

Just Curious, what kind of antenna are you using? KMGH and KUSA are "High VHF". The rest are UHF. Just a thought, if your antenna is not tuned for VHF high..that could be the problem!

Phil

I am trying to scan the the local HD channels in the Denver area, I can pick up everything but 7-1 KMGH, and 9-1 KUSA, those channels never appear in my channel list as scanned channels. I am not sure if I am the only one having these issues, I thought channel 4-1 and 31-1(which I pick up fine) were being broadcast from the same tower on Lookout Mountain? Anyone has a suggestion I am using a Samsung HL-S4666W DLP TV to receive the channels and I am residing in Northglenn. Thank you.

Just Curious, what kind of antenna are you using? KMGH and KUSA are "High VHF". The rest are UHF. Just a thought, if your antenna is not tuned for VHF high..that could be the problem!

Phil

Using the Winegard SS-3000, not sure if it picks up high VHF.

I am trying to scan the the local HD channels in the Denver area, I can pick up everything but 7-1 KMGH, and 9-1 KUSA, those channels never appear in my channel list as scanned channels. I am not sure if I am the only one having these issues, I thought channel 4-1 and 31-1(which I pick up fine) were being broadcast from the same tower on Lookout Mountain? Anyone has a suggestion I am using a Samsung HL-S4666W DLP TV to receive the channels and I am residing in Northglenn. Thank you.

I'm guessing that you only have a UHF antenna connected to your Samsung's antenna port. KMGH, 7-1, and KUSA, 9-1, are broadcasting on high VHF, not UHF. Their actual/real broadcasting channel numbers are 7 and 9 respectively. Add a VHF antenna and you should pick up 7 and 9 with no problem. For me, in Arvada, they are two of the strongest, steadiest DTV signals that I receive.

Using the Winegard SS-3000, not sure if it picks up high VHF.

This is an indoor antenna that does have high VHF capability. However, indoor antennas typically make severe compromises in order to keep the size small. Tell us more about the room you have the antenna in, i.e. floor level, where the room is situated in relation to Lookout Mountain (i.e. does the signal have to travel through multiple walls), location of windows in relation to Lookout Mountain, etc.

You might want to experiment with other locations for the antenna. Can you get the antenna near a window that faces roughly towards the west or south that might give you line of sight to Lookout Mountain? What nearby obstructions exist between your house and the direction towards Lookout Mountain?

Do you own your home? Do you have an attic? You can significantly increase your reception quality by installing a larger antenna in your attic, or even better, outdoors on your roof. If you live in a condo or apartment your options may be more limited, but an outdoor installation may still be possible (on a wall or balcony railing for example).

It's also possible that a different indoor antenna may work better for your particular situation. The SS-3000 may excel at UHF reception, but perhaps simple rabbit ears might work better for VHF (they have more potential for fine tuning).

Anyway, even if moving the antenna to a different location is not practical for the long term, it might still be worth experimenting with, in order to get an idea how close you are to being able to get a usable signal.

Does your antenna support VHS-high (channels 7 thru 13)? If your antenna supports UHF only, that would explain it. Both 7-1 and 9-1 have been broadcasting on VHS high since April -- that was when they turned off analog and moved their digital channel to the former analog one. I am using the Channel Master 3010 mounted in my attic and it seems to work OK. I live in Stapleton.

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-3010-Outdoor-Rooftop/dp/B0009FJEUS/

Using the Winegard SS-3000, not sure if it picks up high VHF.

I noticed that the SS-3000 is an amplified antenna. You may in fact be over amping the signal from channels 7 and 9, which are very strong signals to begin with. In addition, these cheap type amps are usually very noisy, electronically speaking.

A couple to things to try. First, try running your antenna feed directly to the ATSC tuner and leave out the "power injector". I'm not sure if this particular antenna will work without the power injector in the circuit, but should be easy to determine after you try it. If it works for some of the channels, try channels 7 and 9.

Another way to deal with an over amped signal would be to install a 6 or 10 dB attenuator on the coax input to your ATSC tuner. These attenuators are usually readily available at Rat Shack and don't cost very much.

No guarantees with above, but if moving around your antenna doesn't change the situation with channels 7 and 9 at all, then I suspect something else is at play in the reception equation.

I purchased a flat RCA antenna from ultimate electronics, which they said would work, did a scan and still not getting them even with that one. I checked the signal on 2-1,4-1,20-1,and 31-1 and they have almost have a full strength signal. I went into the service menu on my samsung and I cannot find any settings for antenna. At this point it makes zero sense why I cannot pick up those channels.

Check out the NFL pre-game ceremony going on right now. NFL Channel on D* ch 212HD is noticeably crisper than Ch 9 HD OTA.

Check out the NFL pre-game ceremony going on right now. NFL Channel on D* ch 212HD is noticeably crisper than Ch 9 HD OTA.

Most SD channels are noticeably crisper than 9-1 these days.

Gannett and station management just don't care or they'd stuff the KUSA subchannels onto KTVD, which no one watches anyway.

Instead they choose to degrade their "flagship" channel with video quality that looks like a macroblocking DVD.

KUSA has a better picture on D* than OTA especially when motion (like football or fast scans) is being shown. All the other local channels are slightly better OTA than on D*. You are right, the 9 management doesn't care. I wish Don Perez still worked there.

We watch channel 4 news now. You can still see the right side of the screen.

I purchased a flat RCA antenna from ultimate electronics, which they said would work, did a scan and still not getting them even with that one. I checked the signal on 2-1,4-1,20-1,and 31-1 and they have almost have a full strength signal. I went into the service menu on my samsung and I cannot find any settings for antenna. At this point it makes zero sense why I cannot pick up those channels.Actually it does make sense why you're not able to receive 7-1 and 9-1. As others have pointed out above its because the antenna you bought doesn't have high VHF capability. Where you live will determine how big of an antenna you need but you'll need a combo UHF+High VHF antenna from the likes of Winegard, Channelmaster, Antennasdirect, etc. Stay away from those cute looking SharpShooters.

Unfortunately the guys at Ultimate Electronics are essentially clueless, especially when it comes to the OTA issues we have in this area. I know because I used to work there (Boulder and Thornton stores) for a while and the crap that most sales people there (and in Best Buy) spew is unbelievable!

Actually it does make sense why you're not able to receive 7-1 and 9-1. As others have pointed out above its because the antenna you bought doesn't have high UHF capability. Where you live will determine how big of an antenna you need but you'll need a combo UHF+High VHF antenna from the likes of Winegard, Channelmaster, Antennasdirect, etc. Stay away from those cute looking SharpShooters.

Unfortunately the guys at Ultimate Electronics are essentially clueless, especially when it comes to the OTA issues we have in this area. I know because I used to work there (Boulder and Thornton stores) for a while and the crap that most sales people there (and in Best Buy) spew is unbelievable!

However, his original Winegard antenna, SS3000, is supposed to pick up high VHF. That's why I suggested that maybe that amplified antenna was overdriving the signal for channels 7 and 9.

At this point he should probably just pick up a pair of "rabbit ears" at the ARC store for a couple of bucks and hook them up. Set the ears to about 36" apart perpendicular to LOM and see if 7 and 9 come in. If not, then something else is afoot here, like maybe the Samsung ATSC receiver is hosed or not set up properly.

However, his original Winegard antenna, SS3000, is supposed to pick up high VHF. That's why I suggested that maybe that amplified antenna was overdriving the signal for channels 7 and 9.

At this point he should probably just pick up a pair of "rabbit ears" at the ARC store for a couple of bucks and hook them up. Set the ears to about 36" apart perpendicular to LOM and see if 7 and 9 come in. If not, then something else is afoot here, like maybe the Samsung ATSC receiver is hosed or not set up properly.Ah OK. I was thinking of the original SS1000 which was UHF only. I tried one back in the days when our locals were transmitting from RP and the SS didn't do at all well out here in Lafayette. Even the amplified version was no good. Also, IIRC, the SS antennas are designed for urban areas to get reflected signals off of buildings.

Not sure if rabbit ears will be enough up in Northglenn.

Maybe try a different antenna as CEBII suggests.
Though I have generally high regard for Winegard products, that SS-3000 "physically" does not look like it could be tuned properly for much of anything in the VHF band. The element is just not long enough. I have used 36" whip with good amps for Shortwave, and they can do amazing things. If you have enough signal, any hunk of wire with an amp can bring it in. If you are in a problem area, maybe this non-tuned design with a hot amp (and as CEBII points out likely a noisy one at that) will just not do the job.

If you could get even a small UHF/VHF hi antenna outside, I would bet you would have much better luck. You could check this one out:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7694P&d=Winegard-HD-7694P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HDHD769-Series-Antenna-(HD7694P)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398446

I have its big brother the HD7697P and it seems to do a good job for me.

Phil


Using the Winegard SS-3000, not sure if it picks up high VHF.

However, his original Winegard antenna, SS3000, is supposed to pick up high VHF. That's why I suggested that maybe that amplified antenna was overdriving the signal for channels 7 and 9.

At this point he should probably just pick up a pair of "rabbit ears" at the ARC store for a couple of bucks and hook them up. Set the ears to about 36" apart perpendicular to LOM and see if 7 and 9 come in. If not, then something else is afoot here, like maybe the Samsung ATSC receiver is hosed or not set up properly.
For the record, I don't know anything about the TV the OP has. I just wonder if there is any chance that the TV still has the old mappings from the pre-transition UHF assignments. I believe KMGH was physical 17 to virtual 7 and KUSA was physical 16 to virtual 9.

On some of my equipment I did single channel adds when transition took place, but I had to erase the old mappings first.

I believe I read in some forums that a few people reported problems with tuners that did not automatically delete the old mappings, even when they asked for full scans. I believe they had to do something to trigger a factory reset in order to add a station where virtual/NTSC assignment had been previously associated with a different physical/broadcast channel assignment.

Just a thought.

Afterthought:
I don't believe the OP made it clear whether he gets KBDI. It would have the same issues. It now uses a VHF physical channel of 13 and used to use a VHF physical channel of 38.

I believe I read in some forums that a few people reported problems with tuners that did not automatically delete the old mappings, even when they asked for full scans. I believe they had to do something to trigger a factory reset in order to add a station where virtual/NTSC assignment had been previously associated with a different physical/broadcast channel assignment.
It's called a double re-scan, which is performed as follows:

• Detach the antenna cable from the back of the tuner.

• Perform a channel scan. (If the tuner offers both "new" and "additional-channel" scans, choose the new scan.) The tuner shouldn't find any stations, which is what you want: This step wipes out the old channel assignments.

• Once the scan is complete, unplug the tuner for at least five minutes. Plug it back in.

• Re-attach the antenna cable, and then perform a second "new channels" scan.

If the old assignments were "stuck" in the tuner, precluding reception of the stations on their new channels, this should help. I had to do this when KMGH and KUSA flash-cut from analog to digital broadcasting on real channels 7 and 9 in April, and again when KBDI moved to channel 13 in June.

Well it's finally NFL Sunday so I'm comparing Denver and Cheyenne's broadcasts.
CBS Ch 5.1 looks the same as 4.1, but 5.1's audio is booming and sounds almost mono.
FOX 27.1 is SD and stretched-o-vision and 27.2 is HD and looks & sounds the same as KCNC.

Fox31 for the on-going Giants/Redskins game looks sharper than did the Bronco game on KCNC. Don't know why, it just does.

... FOX 27.1 is SD and stretched-o-vision and 27.2 is HD and looks & sounds the same as KCNC.

Did you mean KDVR, i.e. were you comparing the same broadcast, or were you comparing two different games? Anyway, FOX stations don't recompress the satellite feed, i.e. each Fox station has a switcher provided by the network that lets the station switch between the national feed and local programming. When broadcasting something from the national feed the only thing the station can do is provide a station logo to superimpose over the broadcast (the next generation switcher will allow them to put a crawl over the broadcast so the station doesn't need to switch to SD to do a crawl). So, with the exception of a possible logo, the HD broadcast from KDVR and KLWY should be bit for bit identical. Note that the national feed does not take the entire ATSC bandwidth and allows for a potential second subchannel, so although theoretically KDVR could be better than KLWY by alloting more bandwidth, they don't have that option since they are just passing through the national feed.

Fox31 for the on-going Giants/Redskins game looks sharper than did the Bronco game on KCNC. Don't know why, it just does.

Although the difference could be at the network level, what you are most likely seeing here is the difference between 720p and 1080i. 720p is better for fast moving events like sports. There isn't enough bandwidth available to do a good job with fast moving content on 1080i, even if there are no other subchannels consuming bandwidth. 1080i excels for more static content, or material with a lower frame rate (i.e. network programming that was originally done in 1080p24).

KPXC 59.1 broadcast a "Criminal Minds" rerun and the first episode of their new series, "Durham County," in 720i on Monday night. The three subs aren't helping matters -- there were plenty of artifacts and microblocking. Still, it looked much better than the 480i video they had been previously broadcasting.

But, at least they're on the air! I'm about to drop a line to the Media Bureau concerning KQCK and KQDK, whose signals have been MIA for nearly a month now. Neither station has filed for Licensed and Silent status, which IIRC they're obligated to do within 30 days of going off the air or risk losing their licenses. As they've been off the air for weeks, I fail to see what we have to lose by notifying the FCC about this. Anybody else?

I've notified the FCC several times in the past about KQCK/KDEV being silent. You'll get a mail notification of receipt of your complaint in a few months and, as evidenced by KQCK's current off-the-air status, nothing will come of it. As far a KQDK goes, it's an LP analog. If the FCC hasn't shown any interest in KQCK's silence, KQDK is totally off of its radar.

Anyone know the status of TVGOS? My understanding is that it used to come via KRMA analog (channel 6) before the conversion. Now that everything is digital, is TVGOS information still being transmitted? I have a Toshiba Plasma TV with a Symbios HD recorder that relies on TVGOS info. Thanks!

Anyone know the status of TVGOS? My understanding is that it used to come via KRMA analog (channel 6) before the conversion. Now that everything is digital, is TVGOS information still being transmitted? I have a Toshiba Plasma TV with a Symbios HD recorder that relies on TVGOS info. Thanks!
KCNC-DT 4.1 broadcasts DTV TVGOS data in this market thanks to a deal between CBS and the owner of TV Guide. If you get CBS 4, you should get the data. You're right -- the analog data used to be sent over PBS stations such as KRMA.

I've notified the FCC several times in the past about KQCK/KDEV being silent. ... If the FCC hasn't shown any interest in KQCK's silence, KQDK is totally off of its radar.
Thanks; I figured someone probably had done so by now. Maybe now that the transition is done, the Media Bureau has a bit more time to pursue these queries.

I've notified the FCC several times in the past about KQCK/KDEV being silent. You'll get a mail notification of receipt of your complaint in a few months and, as evidenced by KQCK's current off-the-air status, nothing will come of it. As far a KQDK goes, it's an LP analog. If the FCC hasn't shown any interest in KQCK's silence, KQDK is totally off of its radar.

Even if the FCC cared they would probably be somewhat lenient right now, since the KQCK recently went through a bankrupty auction and has new owners. In fact, there was a recent filing showing another ownership transfer. This second transfer is not really that significant though, since the buying corporation and the selling corporation have some board members in common.

I keep wondering if they are ever going to get "legal" and actually transmit some PSIP information (of course they have to return to the air first!). I'm somewhat surprised that the FCC actually fined some stations in the past regarding non conformance to the PSIP standards, but they don't seem to care as much anymore.

Anyone know the status of TVGOS? My understanding is that it used to come via KRMA analog (channel 6) before the conversion. Now that everything is digital, is TVGOS information still being transmitted? I have a Toshiba Plasma TV with a Symbios HD recorder that relies on TVGOS info. Thanks!
I am reasonably certain that KCNC is the transport station for TVGOS in the Denver metro area. TVGOS receivers that can process the digital version SHOULD be able to get it there.

You will have to research what is required for your specific equipment. I have seen something that the Dish DTVpal/TR40 might be able to provide a signal usable by some analog based TVGOS receivers from the digital TVGOS signal, but since I don't have any TVGOS equipment, I have not really read very carefully on this topic.

Good Luck

Does anyone know if KRMA-DT is sending legal PSIP information now?

No matter what I do, my S3 TiVO won't pick up or even admit the existence of 6-5 (I know it's audio-only, but still.)

I am reasonably certain that KCNC is the transport station for TVGOS in the Denver metro area. TVGOS receivers that can process the digital version SHOULD be able to get it there.

You will have to research what is required for your specific equipment. I have seen something that the Dish DTVpal/TR40 might be able to provide a signal usable by some analog based TVGOS receivers from the digital TVGOS signal, but since I don't have any TVGOS equipment, I have not really read very carefully on this topic.
Good Luck

KCNC is definitely sending TVGOS information. There's a TVGOS thread in the HDTV technical section: AVS Forum TVGOS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122914), that has more information regarding TVGOS.

Does anyone know if KRMA-DT is sending legal PSIP information now?

No matter what I do, my S3 TiVO won't pick up or even admit the existence of 6-5 (I know it's audio-only, but still.)

Yes, KRMA is sending legal PSIP information. My guess is that the S3 TiVO doesn't support audio only subchannels.

KQCK was back on-air during prime time last night. Still no PSIP, judging from the lack of on-screen station ID or program info. It looks like the owners are starting from scratch: Every show was oriented toward sportsmen, and they had no advertising at all. They filled the breaks with government public-service announcements.

KQDK was still out.

Even if the FCC cared they would probably be somewhat lenient right now, since the KQCK recently went through a bankrupty auction and has new owners. ...

I keep wondering if they are ever going to get "legal" and actually transmit some PSIP information (of course they have to return to the air first!). I'm somewhat surprised that the FCC actually fined some stations in the past regarding non conformance to the PSIP standards, but they don't seem to care as much anymore.

Any idea which network? Tuff TV, Sportsman Channel, Pursuit Channel, Untamed Sports TV...?

- Trip

Any idea which network? Tuff TV, Sportsman Channel, Pursuit Channel, Untamed Sports TV...?

- Trip
Not sure. Prime time's just starting here. I'll have to have another look-see or two, and I'll be sure to let you know if I see any identifiers.

If it was Untamed Sports, you wouldn't be able to miss the bug in the corner...

- Trip

Any idea which network?

I moments ago (9:30pm MT) heard a "High Country TV is brought to you by..." promo on KQCK. A web search implicates The Sportsman Channel.

Hmmm, maybe not. The top-of-hour promo says "@ SportsTV" (the logo has "SportsTV" in white atop an oversized at-sign).

Trip, how often are TV stations supposed to show a full, proper FCC ID? I volunteer on local radio, and it's every hour on the hour, period.

I checked around midnight, and to my surprise, KQDK-CA (39) is back too. Still analog unfortunately. As usual it has the same programming as KQCK-DT. Based on the logo they showed at the commercial break, the network is @SportsTV (http://atsportstv.com).

I checked around midnight, and to my surprise, KQDK-CA (39) is back too. Still analog unfortunately. As usual it has the same programming as KQCK-DT. Based on the logo they showed at the commercial break, the network is @SportsTV (http://atsportstv.com).

The live online view on the website shows the same thing that KQCK is broadcasting, so I think that confirms the above (i.e. KQCK is now broadcasting @SportsTV). In my opinion, this network looks like it is someone's hobby rather than an actual business.

The ID requirement is every hour as close to the hour as possible.

And thanks for the confirmation on KQCK. I'd never heard of this network before.

- Trip

In my opinion, this network looks like it is someone's hobby rather than an actual business.

Yeah, I don't get it. It's kind of like when KLPD recently added TellyTopia as a subchannel. The content for both @SportsTV and TellyTopia is web based, and neither of them provides a schedule even on their own web sites. Do they think people are just gonna hang out all day watching to see what's on next? Personally, I doubt that either channel will be providing any content that will interest me.

I'd never heard of this network before.

I doubt anyone has. For some reason, Denver seems to end up with all the crap networks that no one has ever heard of like AMGTV (KQCK's former affiliation) and White Springs TV (some of the worst quality video and audio I've ever experienced). I really wish one of the local stations would pickup RTN again or something similar.

The live online view on the website shows the same thing that KQCK is broadcasting, so I think that confirms the above (i.e. KQCK is now broadcasting @SportsTV). In my opinion, this network looks like it is someone's hobby rather than an actual business.
That's probably pretty close to the mark. If you check the "contact us" tab at the link Rick provided, it gives a street address and phone number for an operations office in Davenport, IA -- the same city as Valley Bank, which acquired the stations in bankruptcy, and Denver TV Licenses LLC, its successor in ownership.

Yeah, I don't get it. It's kind of like when KLPD recently added TellyTopia as a subchannel. The content for both @SportsTV and TellyTopia is web based, and neither of them provides a schedule even on their own web sites. Do they think people are just gonna hang out all day watching to see what's on next? Personally, I doubt that either channel will be providing any content that will interest me.

I didn't even know about this addition. i2TV has another affiliate, KAXT-LD 1-8 in San Francisco. Thanks.

I doubt anyone has. For some reason, Denver seems to end up with all the crap networks that no one has ever heard of like AMGTV (KQCK's former affiliation) and White Springs TV (some of the worst quality video and audio I've ever experienced). I really wish one of the local stations would pickup RTN again or something similar.

I had heard of both AMG and White Springs before they showed up on KQCK. This one is completely new to me. I don't know of any other affiliates as of yet.

- Trip

KDCO out of Sterling is an RTN affiliate. They're on Dish Network, channel 8216.

Trip, White Springs TV is on KDEO, 23-2, not KQCK.

And either KLPD has been silent the past couple of weeks or I'm not receiving their signal any longer.

And either KLPD has been silent the past couple of weeks or I'm not receiving their signal any longer.

They're still transmitting, but the signal has been pretty weak for the past month or so. It used to be much stronger. Also, they added a new subchannel a couple of weeks ago, so you might need to rescan.

KHDT-LP (45) has been running a crawl for more than a month now saying that they will be discontinuing analog on August 18th. The only explanation that I can come up with for why they are still on the air is that KLPD-LD must be having problems of some kind.

Trip, White Springs TV is on KDEO, 23-2, not KQCK.

I thought White Springs was on KQCK once upon a time long ago. I'm probably wrong.

- Trip

KQCK, when they were KDEV, ran some programming on 11-2, probably about 3 years ago. My Dish Network receivers couldn't decode KDEV at all at that time but I had an Accurian tuner that could decode 11-1 but 11-2 would cause it to freeze up (probably due to PSIP, or lack thereof), so I don't believe I ever saw what programming was on 11-2. I seem to recall some posts on this thread that mentioned it was MTV type programming, something probably like The Tube. I don't recollect anything but RTN type programming on 11-1.

I have tried to watch some of the White Springs programming but I've given up on it. Some of the video isn't even 4x3, it's more like 3x3 with grayish black sidebars. It's usually very washed out, and the audio is just terrible. Even the commercials, which are usually Popeil Pocket Fisherman type promos, have washed out video and scratchy audio and they aren't 60 years old.

The ID requirement is every hour as close to the hour as possible.

OK - I've yet to see call letters on KQCK since they lit back up.


And thanks for the confirmation on KQCK. I'd never heard of this network before.


Happy to help (and surprised to be able to :-)

KQCK, when they were KDEV, ran some programming on 11-2, probably about 3 years ago. My Dish Network receivers couldn't decode KDEV at all at that time but I had an Accurian tuner that could decode 11-1 but 11-2 would cause it to freeze up (probably due to PSIP, or lack thereof), so I don't believe I ever saw what programming was on 11-2. I seem to recall some posts on this thread that mentioned it was MTV type programming, something probably like The Tube. I don't recollect anything but RTN type programming on 11-1.

The programming on 11-2 was Retro Jams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_Jams).

I recall KQCK running a lot of old (public domain type) movies for a few weeks during the transition from RTN to AMGTV. I don't think there was ever any indication of where the content originated. At the time, I just assumed that it was from KQCK's own library, but I suppose it could have been White Springs. Who knows?

I have tried to watch some of the White Springs programming but I've given up on it.

Same here. They have had a few movies that interested me, but the audio is so bad that it makes it difficult to enjoy them. At first, I assumed it was because the content was so old, but as you mentioned, even the new stuff looks and sounds terrible.

There's a nice indictment of VHF as a less-than-ideal digital signal carrier on page 19A, the Business section, of today's Denver Post. It was picked up from the Associated Press, so a longer version may exist somewhere. There'a a sidebar list of reception-improving tips as well, with some links and antenna reccomendations.
The one really interesting thing in the article is the fourth-paragraph line, "at least 20 VHF stations have asked the FCC to move their digital signals back to UHF, and more would like to do so."
Anybody think McGraw-Hill or Gannett care enough about their signal quality to up their high-VHF power on KMGH & KUSA, respectively, or even go back to UHF? Just asking.

There's a nice indictment of VHF as a less-than-ideal digital signal carrier on page 19A, the Business section, of today's Denver Post. It was picked up from the Associated Press, so a longer version may exist somewhere. There'a a sidebar list of reception-improving tips as well, with some links and antenna reccomendations.
The one really interesting thing in the article is the fourth-paragraph line, "at least 20 VHF stations have asked the FCC to move their digital signals back to UHF, and more would like to do so."
Anybody think McGraw-Hill or Gannett care enough about their signal quality to up their high-VHF power on KMGH & KUSA, respectively, or even go back to UHF? Just asking.

I wouldn't mind if they upped the ERP to help out some of the more distant viewers, but I'm quite happy with them being high VHF as they are the strongest and most consistent DTV signals that I currently receive. Only Fox31 (KDVR) comes close in signal strength and consistency to them among my UHF DTV channels.

BTW, I'm just using an old, no-name, 5-foot VHF/UHF combo antenna in my attic, w/o any amplification, for my receipt of VHF DTV signals and I'm splitting that signal 4 to 6 ways before it reaches any of my receivers. I know it may sound selfish, but I'd sure hate to lose the simplest and best part of my DTV reception system. KBDI's high VHF signal is similarly very, very strong at my location.

I suspect that the stations wanting off VHF and back to UHF for DTV are those on the low VHF frequencies, which were documented as a problem over the past few years in about every city in which they were used. I don't think high VHF has the same problems and same bad reputation as low VHF for DTV. Just MHO!

I wouldn't mind if they upped the ERP to help out some of the more distant viewers, but I'm quite happy with them being high VHF as they are the strongest and most consistent DTV signals that I currently receive. Only Fox31 (KDVR) comes close in signal strength and consistency to them among my UHF DTV channels.

I'm glad their signal is working for you. Out here in the NE corner I technically have nothing but a few treetops in my line-of-sight to LOM, but KMGH and KUSA's signals are so middling they can be disrupted into stuttering blockies by a good raincloud. And that's with an amplified roof-mounted C4 and boosted splitters. In weather or wind, they're the first stations to go, particularly at sunset.

Conversely, KCNC is always our strongest signal out here, so that's what I use as my full-power baseline. They also put out the best OTA surround audio, but they did back in the rabbit-ears analog day, too.

I don't see many other rooftop antennas out here, and I've always suspected it's because a.) people don't know the free, uncompressed HD signal is there and b.) they also don't know they can legally mount a decent antenna. Our antiquated covenant still has folks spooked.

There's a nice indictment of VHF as a less-than-ideal digital signal carrier on page 19A, the Business section, of today's Denver Post.

For those of us who don't subscribe, here's a link to the Denver Post article:

DTV woes not over, many viewers still lost in transition (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13383002)

Here's a practically identical article from MSNBC that someone in another forum mentioned a couple days ago:

Don’t change channel: DTV woes still abound (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32917495/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/)

Interesting articles. Seems to me like the DTV transition would have been a perfect opportunity for the country to make a clean break from VHF. It would have made life easier for viewers, broadcasters, and antenna manufacturers alike. I guess simplicity was just too radical for those in charge.

Here's a practically identical article from MSNBC that someone in another forum mentioned a couple days ago:

.

Since it's an Associated Press article written from New York, it's just a matter of both outlets picking it up.....

I've decided to upgrade my ancient rooftop fishbone antenna to one with better UHF reception. I think I've narrowed down choices to Winegard - either a
HD7694P http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7696P&d=Winegard-HD-7696P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HD7696-Series-Antenna-%28HD7696P%29
or
HD7082P http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=SHD7082&d=Winegard-HD-7082P-High-Definition-VHFUHFFM-Antenna-%28HD7082P%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798317478

I'm not sure which would be better for my location. Looking for tips and info on how to determine the best antenna.

Mostly the issue is - I can't get enough signal to lock on KWGN and KDVR. KDVR comes in on 31.1 but never consistently and rarely without dropouts/freezing. I get better reception on KFCT 22.1 but my understanding is they want to move their transmitter west which means I'll lose them if it happens. I don't have problems with any other stations from Lookout Mtn.

I've attached my TVFool profile in addition to the link - AntennaWeb didn't list a number of channels I do get.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8ecd40c7b645ff

I have a winegard HDP-269 pre-amplifier on the current antenna.
Currently I get the following signal strength on a Tivo Series 3

channel signal strength
KWGN - 2 - 25 - 28 - intermittent, never been able to lock post transition.
KCNC - 4 low 60's
KRMA - 6 50 - 60's
KMGH - 7 low 90's
KUSA - 9 low 90's
KTVD - 20 high 80's
KDVR - 31 mid 30's to low 40's - reception varies never consistent from day to day.
KDBI - 12 20 - 28 - intermittent - won't get until they get a north metro translator up.
K11QJ - 11 KDBI analog translator



K24HQ - Ch 6 translator for Boulder - high 80's - I'm less than 2 miles from the transmitter on top of Williams Village
KFCT - Ch 22 translator for KDVR - 50 - 55 - since adding the HDP-269 get consistent lock -

KTFD - 24 - 35


I also receive digital 59, 38, 28, 28 with a strong lock.


Thanks for any suggestions - references - info.

My KMGH (7-1) comes and goes -- and even when I do get it, it only gets a signal in the 70's range. What boggles me is that KUSA (9-1) comes in very strong with a signal in the 90's. Any clues why that would be the case when both are broadcasting from LOM? Is KUSA broadcasting a stronger signal than KMGH? I am in Stapleton, with an unamplified Channel Master 3010 in my attic (VHF/UHF antenna). I haven't had any issues with any other channels in the last couple of months -- only KMGH.

My KMGH (7-1) comes and goes -- and even when I do get it, it only gets a signal in the 70's range. What boggles me is that KUSA (9-1) comes in very strong with a signal in the 90's. Any clues why that would be the case when both are broadcasting from LOM? Is KUSA broadcasting a stronger signal than KMGH? I am in Stapleton, with an unamplified Channel Master 3010 in my attic (VHF/UHF antenna). I haven't had any issues with any other channels in the last couple of months -- only KMGH.
I live in Louisville, and both KUSA and KMGH come in very strong on my unamplified CM 3010 mounted in second floor closet, and the strengths of the 2 signals are very close.

I used to have problems with KRMA analog caused by an FM radio station operating at the bottom of the FM radio spectrum, which placed it just above KRMA analog, which was at the top of the low VHF spectrum. The FM radio station splattered into the spectrum allocated to VHF channel 6. It stopped being a problem when KRMA analog stopped broadcasting.

I wonder if there could be a similar problem with VHF 7, since it is at the low end of the upper VHF spectrum. I don't even know what is in the spectrum below it, but perhaps there is something operting in that spectrum which can generate local interference for TV 7.

Did you ever notice anything that looked like interference on 7 analog that you did not see with 9 analog? That might be a hint if local interference could have anything to do with your situation.

Update: (I just did a little looking) The channel 7 spectrum is 174-180 Mhz and according to a document at: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/alloctbl/foot_gov.htmlG5--In the bands 162.0125-173.2, 173.4-174, 406.1-410 and 410-420 MHz, the fixed and mobile services are all allocated on a primary basis to the Government non-military agencies.
I wonder if there could be anything left over from the old airport operating in the area?

Thanks for any suggestions - references - info.
The only reason to get the HD-7082P would be to add an FM receiver as well as TVs to the antenna, since Denver/Boulder no longer has any station broadcasting on channels 2 through 6. (Ignore that TVFool listing for KLPT on channel 6 -- it doesn't exist, at least not yet.) If not, an HD-7694 mounted above the roof would be a fine choice. The 7694's performance is about the same as the 7082's on channels 7-69; its compact size makes it both very easy to install and fairly unobtrusive.

If you're going to get a new antenna, you might as well also replace the outdoor downlead cable, from antenna to pre-amp and from pre-amp to power injector, unless you've already done this in the past few years. Use black-jacketed RG-6 coaxial cable, which resists UV damage best. A new antenna won't do much good if a worn-out downlead saps the signals it captures!

Since it's an Associated Press article written from New York, it's just a matter of both outlets picking it up.....

I realize that of course. My original intention was simply to post a link to the Denver Post article that was originally mentioned, but since the MSNBC article contained additional anecdotal details, I thought members might benefit from seeing it as well.

There's a nice indictment of VHF as a less-than-ideal digital signal carrier on page 19A, the Business section, of today's Denver Post. It was picked up from the Associated Press, so a longer version may exist somewhere. There'a a sidebar list of reception-improving tips as well, with some links and antenna reccomendations.
The one really interesting thing in the article is the fourth-paragraph line, "at least 20 VHF stations have asked the FCC to move their digital signals back to UHF, and more would like to do so."
Anybody think McGraw-Hill or Gannett care enough about their signal quality to up their high-VHF power on KMGH & KUSA, respectively, or even go back to UHF? Just asking.

Most of those stations trusted the FCC projections too much, and didn't ask for more power. Many of them were allocated less than 20 KW ERP. Both KUSA and KMGH were more proactive. They asked for and got significantly higher allocations BEFORE the transition. KMGH has asked for a little more after the transition. In my opinion a high VHF stations needs at least a 30 KW ERP to be viable. Some of the stations asking to go back to UHF don't have the option of increasing to that much (or more) power, due to interference issues with other stations.

I'm glad their signal is working for you. Out here in the NE corner I technically have nothing but a few treetops in my line-of-sight to LOM, but KMGH and KUSA's signals are so middling they can be disrupted into stuttering blockies by a good raincloud. And that's with an amplified roof-mounted C4 and boosted splitters. In weather or wind, they're the first stations to go, particularly at sunset.

Conversely, KCNC is always our strongest signal out here, so that's what I use as my full-power baseline. They also put out the best OTA surround audio, but they did back in the rabbit-ears analog day, too.

I don't see many other rooftop antennas out here, and I've always suspected it's because a.) people don't know the free, uncompressed HD signal is there and b.) they also don't know they can legally mount a decent antenna. Our antiquated covenant still has folks spooked.

Well one thing that is a problem with VHF stations is that too many people bought UHF only "HDTV" antennas, or, as in your case, a UHF antenna that pretends to be designed for high VHF based on very limited ability to pull in high VHF. The C4 is based on a traditional bow tie design. The fancy disks really aren't going to help with VHF reception that much. Whether or not you will be able to actually get high VHF from any distance with the C4 is going to be hit or miss. The same applies for the CM 4228 (both original and the new "HD" CM 4228). Another person here in Fort Collins is getting KMGH and KUSA adequately with his CM4228.

I added an Antenna Craft Y5-7-13 antenna to my CM4228 and now get a fantastic signal for KMGH and KUSA (and a very good signal for KBDI also). I would recommend that you consider something like that, rather than hoping that KMGH and KUSA switch back to UHF. The AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 is designed specifically for channels 7-13, and it is relatively small. If compact size is not a consideration I would consider the Winegard YA 1713 instead.

What the #%{^ was up with KDVR tonight? First they cut into the middle of the end of House for a news promo, then they cut off the end of the show completely to start their newscast! WTF?

KDVR-DT mangles the end of House (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlnPsi2Wy1o)

I was frustrated when I learned that Ken Burn's latest PBS documentary cannot be broadcast in hi-def in this market.

What's the point of all that great photography in 480i when you know it is available in 1080i?

If you feel the same way, please note that the entire series is released on Blu-ray October 6 and available from Netflix.

I can wait a couple of weeks.

I'm glad their signal is working for you. Out here in the NE corner I technically have nothing but a few treetops in my line-of-sight to LOM, but KMGH and KUSA's signals are so middling they can be disrupted into stuttering blockies by a good raincloud. And that's with an amplified roof-mounted C4 and boosted splitters. In weather or wind, they're the first stations to go, particularly at sunset.

I don't know what your distance to the towers is, but your mention of an AntennasDirect C4 caught my eye. There have been complaints and discussions on the net regarding the ability of the AntennasDirect Clear Stream antennas to effectively pick up VHF broadcasts.

Another thought is that if you have LOS to the LCG tower on LOM and you are less than 20 miles away, your pre-amp may be over-amping the signal. I amp all my UHF signals or I can't receive them, even at 10 miles from LOM, but any amping of the VHF signal causes overload and/or multi-path problems that make the signal very unstable.

Finally, each of the broadcast antennas on the LCG tower on LOM is different and produces different levels of power in different directions. The FCC filings for each station includes a radiation diagram that shows the percent of ERP in all directions. Might be worth a look in case you are just in a blind spot. However since you have problems with both 7 and 9, this isn't likely to be the cause.


Conversely, KCNC is always our strongest signal out here, so that's what I use as my full-power baseline. They also put out the best OTA surround audio, but they did back in the rabbit-ears analog day, too.

As always, YMMV. While Channel 4 was probably the best analog VHF signal in the area, their UHF broadcasts from LOM have been one of my weaker and less consistent major stations in the DTV transition. I think I may reduce my KCNC problems with reduced amplification and a bit of off angle antenna re-pointing, but that is on hold until I know that KWGN and KDVR are done messing around with their DTV setups. I emailed KDVR in this regard, but never received a reply.

Also, since KCNC went digital, they've had (up to this year) the most problems with Dolby Digital audio. Bronco games prior to this season were very annoying as the audio switched between DD 2.0 and DD5.1 throughout the broadcast and often at inappropriate times. However, it appears KCNC finally got their DD audio problems straightened out over the past year.