I also notice that KRMA is apparently not interested in letting us watch the HD version of "The News Hour With Jim Lehrer" in HD. It is available on a new PBS national feed and being shown in many markets. They are still showing a cooking show at this time, and since I assume they do not have the capability to time shift the HD feeds (based upon what they show each night on 6-1), it would appear we are not likely to see the news in HD at any time in the near future.

One of the reasons KRMA-DT doesn't show much of the PBS HD feed is that PBS raised the fees affiliates must pay to show HD programming to wildly confiscatory rates, such that a majority of PBS affiliates nationwide dropped much of their HD programming in favor of multicast programming such as that from "Create."

FWIW, I have never had a problem getting 6-1 from either the RP or Morrison. Oxothuk lives a few blocks east of me and has similar reception (not sure about 6-1 from Morrison though) and also gets KBDI although I do not know if he has to point his antenna to get it.

As I've mentioned, I live northeast of JMartinko in Louisville, and I get signals from RP and Lookout but not even a peep from KRMA-DT on Morrison unless I specifically point an antenna at it.

I suspect the few miles difference is enough to get Morrison out of the sidelobe that normally allows me to pick up Lookout from my UHF Yagi pointed at RP.

9-1 is working here this evening. I hope they got things fixed for everyone.

I also notice that KRMA is apparently not interested in letting us watch the HD version of "The News Hour With Jim Lehrer" in HD. It is available on a new PBS national feed and being shown in many markets. They are still showing a cooking show at this time, and since I assume they do not have the capability to time shift the HD feeds (based upon what they show each night on 6-1), it would appear we are not likely to see the news in HD at any time in the near future.

I just saw D* will now start carrying PBS in HD next year

or when color was introduced and how long it took before they got it to be reliable.

Well CBS was second with their late show in HD.

CBS still doesn't do all of their football in HD and when they do they haven't figured out how to do DD5.1 without constant dropouts.

KMGH and KUSA have all or most of their broadcasts in DD5.1, not so for KCNC.

CBS is the only one of the three major network morning shows still not in HD.

I think the case is pretty strong that KCNC is in line with their network's generally go slow approach to DTV. They may not be last, but they sure aren't first.

I just saw D* will now start carrying PBS in HD next year

Here is the link from the DirecTv Site...

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1088872&highlight=

or when color was introduced and how long it took before they got it to be reliable.
Yes it was wonky in the earlier days of TV. TV pre-dates me by a few years, but I still remember all of the goofy things you had to do to adjust the antenna, the vertical hold, the fine tuning, the contrast, etc. My family didn't buy a color TV set for a number of years and by the time I did it wasn't too hard to deal with, though there were still numerous manual adjustments. I think auto-fine-tune came out in the early-mid seventies and made life a lot easier. Remote controls came out about that time too and obsesity rates skyrocketed. :D

Here is the link from the DirecTv Site...

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1088872&highlight=

As I read this, they will begin to retransmit the local DT stations, which would give us only the same 3 hours (played twice) each night we already have.

Here is the link from the DirecTv Site...

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1088872&highlight=

This will be great news for many in the area who are having trouble getting the signal from Morrison. As for the limited time PBS actually shows the HD channel, I guess we can only hope that as the transition time nears for the analog shut off, they will be 'forced' into using the HD versions of the shows. Until then all we can do is wait.

JM in Boulder, do you get good OTA reception for HD? What part of town do you live in. I'm northwest of town and don't get any SD signals clear at all with an internal antenna...wondering if HD is any better. What kind of reception equipment do you use.
If you have Google Earth (it's free, btw) then you can get kmz files from this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480

which will provide an excellent visual of signal strength at your location for all of the Denver stations.

If you are NW of Boulder you can't be too far away from where JM and I live. But we do have the advantage of height out here in Heatherwood, which helps with these low-power signals.

You mentioned not getting good SD reception with an "internal antenna" - what is that? Did you mean "indoor antenna" perhaps, or maybe a rabbit ears attached to the set?

Something like this would be good:

Oh crap! I didn't get to see that last year. The times that we were on the M5 in that area was during daylight. :mad:

I would expect that to take at least several months if not longer.

I wouldn't say that. Each situation will determine the timeline, but when the new tower was put up here locally, the building and tower were going up at the same time, just like it appears is happening at that site. While the local tower was about twice the height, giving more time to do stuff in the building, they had the new analog transmitter installed and tested and ready to roll when the analog sticks were placed on the top of the tower. The new tower was for analog and digital.

There was not a big delay getting the transmitters up and running after the tower was ready.

They might just surprise you :)

1. Equal in width provided each band is not less than 1/2 feet (0.5m) or more than 100 feet (31m) wide.

I'm trying to figure out the new math used here, i.e., how 1/2 feet (6 inches) can be equal to .5 meters :D

No wonder we never converted to metric here :D

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://www.hdtvcolorado.com/

Why so picture starved? They could have tons of pictures and info about the construction. I have a lot more unofficial photos of the local tower construction, and those were on-site and personal images. Come to think of it, the two local stations that were involved with the build-out had squat for images. What you have for official info is a lot more than what Madison got. It seems that this forums unofficial photo count is ahead of the official photo count :D

CBS is the only major network who cannot yet manage to broadcast all of their NFL games in HD. Granted, only Fox has as many games per week to manage, but Fox has had all of their games in HD for several years now. CBS manages 5, which is one more than they did last year. I guess that's progress. :)

Fox has more HD capacity than does CBS. I can only count four HD transponders that CBS regularly uses. Obviously they can book more, but not that I've seen. Of course, I don't go looking either, as I personally do not care.

Just be happy that ABC isn't doing Sunday football. They have even less HD satellite capacity :D

On the way home tonight, I saw two red lights on the new tower!

Interesting that they are putting up electrical as the tower is being built. It isn't as if they need it, considering all of the other towers around there and the fact it is on the side of a mountain :)

The 1200' tower that was built locally, on relatively flat land, had no lights of any kind until after the top section was installed.

It must be the Debbie annoyance light factor :D That has to be the reason why they are lighting it up already.

Oh crap! I didn't get to see that last year. The times that we were on the M5 in that area was during daylight. :mad:

I'd like to see it sometime too if I'm ever in the area. Imagine if they had 1000 feet of DTV tower to play with instead of just a 13m column.

On 12-11-07 I pointed out that I had noticed the following post near the top of the KRMA web page http://www.krma.org I didn't know how long it had been there. The good news was that they were acknowledging the problem. The bad news was that it had been a problem for 2 weeks.
KRMA-DT (Denver-area digital channel) is currently off the air or at low power. We are working on this problem and hope to have it back on as soon as possible. This will only affect over-the-air digital channel viewers.
Today I noticed that they had changed the message to the one below.
KRMA-DT (Denver-area digital channel) is currently at low power. We are working on this problem and hope to have it back to full power as soon as possible. This will only affect over-the-air digital channel viewers.
I believe the problem started a few days before Thanksgiving. Apparently they are not in any big rush to fix it, since it "will only affect over-the-air digital channel viewers."

I wonder if the court ruling about Mt. Morrison could have caused them to not want to make any investments at that location.

Hi all,

Please humor the newbie question.

For Christmas we go a Philips 32" HDTV (32PFL5332D/37). We also have the standard analog Comcast cable (not digital, I get channels 2-99 without a cable box). I did the initial cable digital and analog scan and found something like 315 digital channels and 99 analog channels! I looked throught the channels and many of the digital ones are either blank or scrambled. However many channels were available that I've never seen before (the Mountain Sports network, Create Channel are examples) and were burried in a number like 119.16. Does anyone have a full list of what these channels are? Maybe I'm in the wrong thread but perhaps someone can point me to the popper one. Also, the HD Fox channel (normally Channel 31.1 on my OTA HD tuner hooked up to my projector downstairs) came in as something like channel 0.652? I'm glad I have it since I was freaking out not seeing it as 31.1. The HD ABC, NBC and CBS I found right away but the other local ones seem to be hidden somewhere unusal as well. Any help directing me to a channel list whould be helpful. Thanks!!

I don't have Comcast so I can't help you but there is a Comcast thread where there are people who can.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12581536#post12581536

As I look out my window right now, I was wondering if anybody has any knowledge of what effect our frozen precipitation was having on the tower's construction progress.

Not a positive one, I'd bet :D

I was totally surprised that they started the tower when they did. Those guys are rough and tough SOB's to be working up there.

As I look out my window right now, I was wondering if anybody has any knowledge of what effect our frozen precipitation was having on the tower's construction progress.
It's definitely having a negative effect on my willingness to drive up there to get fresh pictures :)

Looks like three orange and two white segments so far.

Uh-oh:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/29/great-to-see-tower-rising/

http://blogs.denverpost.com/eletters/2007/12/29/21st-century-tv-tower-on-lookout-mountain/

A letter from Ernie printed in the editorial section of both papers (actually, it's the same paper, just two different pages) today? This smacks of collusion and biased support of the towers by our newspapers. It must be a conspiracy. Or something. :D

I thought there hasn't been any 'Pro Tower' letters in a while. The paper thought so too.

Hey guys I'm in Eagle, CO and I'm thinking about taking the plunge into HD. I had it in Milwaukee, WI for a few years and can't watch regular TV anymore. Is anyone familiar with the area?

My landlord pays for my basic Centurytel cable. I don't have a cable box, but the TV I'm looking at has a built in QAM tuner. Will I be able to pull HD channels from my basic cable? Which ones?

Any input will be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Looks like three orange and two white segments so far.

Would that be about five hundred feet?

--- CHAS

Hey guys I'm in Eagle, CO and I'm thinking about taking the plunge into HD. I had it in Milwaukee, WI for a few years and can't watch regular TV anymore. Is anyone familiar with the area?

My landlord pays for my basic Centurytel cable. I don't have a cable box, but the TV I'm looking at has a built in QAM tuner. Will I be able to pull HD channels from my basic cable? Which ones?

Any input will be helpful. Thanks in advance.

I'm not sure about Eagle, but we have a place in Winter Park (which uses comcast). We have basic cable and our TV has the built in QAM tuner. We are able to get the locals in HD, and then a bunch of channels (not HD) that would normally be in the digital package (Speed channel fit tv, and some music channels).

Welcome from Milwaukee!

Would that be about five hundred feet?

--- CHAS

TheBert's earlier post suggested that there would be 9 segments. I thought the tower was only supposed to be 600', which would make it 333' currently. It doesn't seem quite that tall to me, but I'm pretty far away using binoculars, so I could be wrong.

The FCC database shows the tower to be 222.5 meters. If my calculation is correct, that converts to about 730 feet. If there's 9 segments to the tower, that would be just over 80 feet per segment. If there's 5 up already, that's about 400 feet.

The FCC database shows the tower to be 222.5 meters. If my calculation is correct, that converts to about 730 feet. If there's 9 segments to the tower, that would be just over 80 feet per segment. If there's 5 up already, that's about 400 feet.

Color bands do not conform to tower sections. Color bands number and size are determined by tower height. Tower sections are between 20 and 30 foot long. Anything much longer and there isn't enough steel to support itself while being installed.

Interesting that they are putting up electrical as the tower is being built. It isn't as if they need it, considering all of the other towers around there and the fact it is on the side of a mountain :)

It is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (hazard to air navigation) and IS REQURED BY FAA AND FCC Rules. Any height above 200 ft HAAT MUST be lit, even under construction. 199 ft does not.

The 1200' tower that was built locally, on relatively flat land, had no lights of any kind until after the top section was installed.

Then the either the installer or owner didn't follow the law.

Color bands do not conform to tower sections. Color bands number and size are determined by tower height. Tower sections are between 20 and 30 foot long. Anything much longer and there isn't enough steel to support itself while being installed.
I think mike was using the word "segment" for color band, not for tower (structural) sections (thebert posted several pages ago on the color bands and how many we would expect to see on this tower).
Thanks for your other post - the lights have been up for a while, and mike's 400' estimate is probably pretty good based on my recollection of the height when the light was first added. We still have a ways to go, though...

I'm new here!

I line in Arvada Colorado amd I have DirectV. I have a VHF/UHF channel Master antenna in the attic. I have ben using it to receive all the SD channels from Lookout Mountain. I have 4 TV's connected and get very good reception. I can now get Channel 4, 7, 9 and 31 in hi-def. through Directv. I connected my TV to the antenna which is pointed to Lookout mountain and can only receive Channel-2-1 digital and channel 6-1 digital, channel 12 digital and channel 31-1 (sometimes) This works out great for me because the Hi-Def channels that I can't get through Directv I can receive from the antenna but the Hi-Def channels I can't get from the antenna I can get through Directv. Is there a reason for this?

I'm new here!

I line in Arvada Colorado amd I have DirectV. I have a VHF/UHF channel Master antenna in the attic. I have ben using it to receive all the SD channels from Lookout Mountain. I have 4 TV's connected and get very good reception. I can now get Channel 4, 7, 9 and 31 in hi-def. through Directv. I connected my TV to the antenna which is pointed to Lookout mountain and can only receive Channel-2-1 digital and channel 6-1 digital, channel 12 digital and channel 31-1 (sometimes) This works out great for me because the Hi-Def channels that I can't get through Directv I can receive from the antenna but the Hi-Def channels I can't get from the antenna I can get through Directv. Is there a reason for this?

The reason is that the DTV versions of channels 4, 7, 9, and 20 are broadcasting from Republic Plaza in downtown Denver, while the others are broadcasting their DTV signals from Lookout Mountain or other mountains in the general direction of LM. From Arvada, where I live also, RP and LM are about 97 degrees of angle apart. So, your antenna pointed at LM would need to be pointed at approximately a right angle to where you currently have it pointed for you to receive the RP broadcasts.

I think LCG should hold a contest to generate interest. :D

http://www.milwaukee-horror-hosts.com/images_2/WTVW_Tower_web.gif

I think LCG should hold a contest to generate interest. :D

http://www.milwaukee-horror-hosts.com/images_2/WTVW_Tower_web.gif

In our case we might want to use an image of Buffalo Bill instead of the indian.
:cool:

BTW, Ernie, nice job with the editorials this weekend.

Anyone else notice a degraded signal out of KDVR-DT (channel 32) over the last 24 hours or so? I'm getting breakup even from the antenna pointed at LOM.

Since the last few storms, I can't get 7.1. Still can't.

For the tower-heads: a Tower Calendar at www.fybush.com (apologies if this is a repeat).

The Govt DTV Converter box coupon offer is now on-line.

Coupon Offer (http://www.dtv2009.gov/)

The link works, but I couldn't get past the secret code Entry page?

The link works, but I couldn't get past the secret code Entry page?
It works, but it may be case sensitive. The 1st time I tried(I got passed the 'codes') I was rejected for using a P.O. Box. So, I tried again with my ex-home address, and it took it.
Thank you for applying for a Coupon online.

IMPORTANT:
TV converter boxes are not expected to be available in retail stores until late February or early March. You will receive your Coupon(s) then. The Coupon will expire within 90 days from the date it is issued.

....jc

It is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (hazard to air navigation) and IS REQURED BY FAA AND FCC Rules. Any height above 200 ft HAAT MUST be lit, even under construction. 199 ft does not.

In the case of the new Denver tower, the hazard to air navigation would't be the short tower without lights, but the mountain itself :D

Then the either the installer or owner didn't follow the law.

Maybe they got a FAA waiver because it was built alongside the existing 1000' tower (edge to edge it was 10'). If I remember correctly, it was lit before the old one started coming down.

For the tower-heads: a Tower Calendar at www.fybush.com.

Thanks for the reminder. I don't normally order the calendar, but this year they have an image of Rib Mountain (Wausau, WI), my parents stomping ground, at which I've spent a few short years, including going up to Rib Mountain a few times.

The Govt DTV Converter box coupon offer is now on-line.

The link works, but I couldn't get past the secret code Entry page?

Ya, typical governmental operation, i.e., SNAFU

Guess no one bothered to test the page before putting it on line :D

It works, but it may be case sensitive. The 1st time I tried(I got passed the 'codes') I was rejected for using a P.O. Box. So, I tried again with my ex-home address, and it took it.

I don't remember the first try having anything but lowercase letters.

Just goes to show that the programming is FUBAR. 1) the instructions should indicate that it is case sensitive and 2) an error should return to that page with red error text indicating that the "code" was incorrect and to try the new one.

Returning to the main page and forcing the user to start over is just plain dumb. THe private sector gets it right, but the government... Hell no.

As for the P.O. Box, did you select the box that says that the Post Office doesn't deliver mail to your home address? That may be the way to get it to take the P.O. Box address. Again, the instructions are not real clear.

I just tried the coupon link again and it worked fine. (I did try case-sensitive and every other possibility this morning) It must have been fixed since then.

I undestand if you have satellite or cable on one TV you only qualify for one coupon. If yo if I have to pay u have satellite or cable on two TVis..no coupons!


What am I going to do with the 10 SD TV's I have throughout the house if I have to pay $70.00 per converter?

I believe everyone is eligible for two coupons until the intial allotment of funds is used up. The second allotment is limited to those who receive TV exclusively OTA.

In the case of the new Denver tower, the hazard to air navigation would't be the short tower without lights, but the mountain itself :D

Doesn't matter where it is located. If the height of the tower is 200 ft or higher, it has to be lit or marked in some manner. Even if the tower is on a building and the tower is at least 200 ft higher higher than the building, both the building and the tower have to be lit and/or marked. That is the law.

Maybe they got a FAA waiver because it was built alongside the existing 1000' tower (edge to edge it was 10'). If I remember correctly, it was lit before the old one started coming down.

FAA doesn't issue waivers for things like that. My bet is someone THOUGHT because it was beside a lit tower, it wouldn't matter. But the law is pretty clear and if a lighting amendment was filed with the authorization (which they ALWAYS are), both FCC and FAA, it would state that when the height of the tower reached 200 ft, it would have to be temporarily lit until completion when the permanent lighting and /or markings would have to be operational. That is the law and that is how those tings work. As a matter of fact, the FCC came out with a bulletin last year reminding stations building new towers for DTV about that very lighting issue.

There are very few things that the FCC can nail a station on these days, EAS/emergency information compliance, Public File and tower lighting and marking. If you fail one of those and the FCC will bore you a new one. Fail all of these and you loose the license. Tower lights and Public Files are the big ones that ALWAYS gets the small AM radio operators. They think they can do anything they want because they don't have any money. After the fines are issued, they really don't then.

Happy New Year to everyone. It finally seems that after ##(fill in appropriate number for yourself) years in the thread for each of us we finally should see full power HD from Lookout sometime in 2008. Only about 4 or 5 years later than the rest of the country too! Who says Denver isn't a hub for the latest of new technology?

Happy 2008!


:cool:

Ya, typical governmental operation, i.e., SNAFU

Guess no one bothered to test the page before putting it on line :D

Actually, isn't it IBM that is supposed to be running the coupon system? Doing an IP lookup on that domain comes back as some company out of Kansas. So it may not be the government's snafu, it might be the el-cheapo company that the government (or IBM) outsourced it to. Remember, big corporations aren't immune from doing the exact same stupid things that the government does, they just aren't accountable to the public when they do them.

Anyway, I just filled out my request for one of the coupons. Anybody have any recommendations on the list of converter boxes? I would love to find one that can be controlled by my analog-only DVR. I think that my DVR had some type of IR transmitter for controlling cable boxes. I guess I'll have to dig out the owners manual for it.

I believe everyone is eligible for two coupons until the intial allotment of funds is used up. The second allotment is limited to those who receive TV exclusively OTA.
Mike, did you check "All or some of the tv's in my house subscribe to one or more pay services like cable or sat." OR "None of the tv's in my house subscribe to one or more services like cable or sat." ?

I use D* AND rabbit ears on several old sets around the house. So I want 2 boxes. Which should I check?

Current photo of the tower. There are just over 4 colored segments complete, probably close to 300' total height right now.

I got an invite to go see the tower & building up close. I can't this week as I am traveling, but I will next week and post a bunch of pics.

Doesn't matter where it is located. If the height of the tower is 200 ft or higher, it has to be lit or marked in some manner. Even if the tower is on a building and the tower is at least 200 ft higher higher than the building, both the building and the tower have to be lit and/or marked. That is the law.

It was a funny, marked with a :D smilie

It just goes to show how some rules do not necessarily make any sense. A 200' tower on the side of that "hill" is going to be less of a hazard than the "hill" itself. Anyone flying level, or nose down, that hits that 200' tower is going to end up hitting that "hill" no matter what.

Now, if some idiot (already violating FAA flight rules) decides to fly low over Denver toward the "hill" and then goes nose up to miss the "hill" would need to see the tower lights to avoid it :D

In any event, it is all a funny, that got missed.

FAA doesn't issue waivers for things like that. My bet is someone THOUGHT because it was beside a lit tower, it wouldn't matter. But the law is pretty clear and if a lighting amendment was filed with the authorization (which they ALWAYS are), both FCC and FAA, it would state that when the height of the tower reached 200 ft, it would have to be temporarily lit until completion when the permanent lighting and /or markings would have to be operational.

Very interesting. If you look at the photos I took of the tower construction, you'll find images of the strobe lights, etc., on the ground and the tower height at that time was way over 200'.

As a matter of fact, the FCC came out with a bulletin last year reminding stations building new towers for DTV about that very lighting issue.

I wonder if that bulletin came out because of towers like the one in Madison. No one came out and told the crew that they had to light the tower. OSHA saw my web site and had issues with some of the things they were doing, but no one complained about the lights. Obviously you can't tell from tower photos if the tower is lit or not, except when you see images of the lights still on the ground :D

I got an invite to go see the tower & building up close. I can't this week as I am traveling, but I will next week and post a bunch of pics.

I think you just caused a bunch of people on this forum who live in the Denver area to have their tongues come out of their mouths and start drooling.

I got an invite to go see the tower & building up close. I can't this week as I am traveling, but I will next week and post a bunch of pics.

Hey, I'm not traveling this week.... ;)

That building looks a lot more like a chalet than an equipment shelter. I think the view will be lovely during the BBQ.

It was a funny, marked with a :D smilie

Oh yeah, I saw it. Thought a clarification might be in order.

Very interesting. If you look at the photos I took of the tower construction, you'll find images of the strobe lights, etc., on the ground and the tower height at that time was way over 200'.

It happens more than it should, that is for sure.

I wonder if that bulletin came out because of towers like the one in Madison.

You are exactly correct. The FCC did say that was driving force. Of course, a good tower crew is going to know it to start with.

I got an invite to go see the tower & building up close. I can't this week as I am traveling, but I will next week and post a bunch of pics.

Ernie, you are da man!

Odd. It looks like Feb 17, 2009, is now a "soft date (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN3049009520080101?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews&sp=true&rpc=92)."

That building looks a lot more like a chalet than an equipment shelter. I think the view will be lovely during the BBQ.

When I was working for Mix 100, I knew a few times when one of the engeneering staff would spend the night(s) up there to make sure the equipment kept running. That was mostly during the heavy snows. I bet that digital equipment is huge as well.

No, Febuary 19, 2009 is still a "Hard Date" - final turnoff for all full power analog broadcasts. What the article states is that the stations will be allowed to shutdown analog sooner and turn up digital only sooner. It's going to be a REAL INTERESTING last 2-3 months of analog / digital transition.

No, Febuary 19, 2009 is still a "Hard Date" ...

Taking that a bit further, that date is the law ... drafted and approved by the congress and signed by the POTUS.

--- CHAS

If you are really fascinated with big towers look here:

http://www.wirelessestimator.com/t_content.cfm?pagename=Southeast%20Tower%20Construction

Building these things is dangerous work .. I would think working during the winter heightens the risk.

--- CHAS

I live in Fort Collins, and this is what I can receive these days:

KDEV-DT "UNKNOWN #11_0": Fullscreen, some interlace artifacts an occasionally jerky motion.

KWGN-DT 2.1: Jerky widescreen picture, intermittent sound.

KWGN-DT 2.2: Notice that Tube Music has ceased operations.

KBDI-DT 12.1: Some interlace artifacts and pixellation.

KBDI-DC 12.2: Some interlace artifacts and pixellation.

KBDI-WV 12.3: Some interlace artifacts and pixellation.

KTFD-DT 14.1: Very smooth picture and sound.

KDEN-DT 25.1: Very strange pixellation, like teardrops. Good sound.

KDVR-DT 31.1: Jerky widescreen picture, intermittent sound.

The poor performance may be due to my hardware, an ATI HDTV Wonder PCI card in a 1 GHz PC with an NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 video card. The PC is running Ubuntu Linux 7.10 with the latest release of Myth TV. Signal is picked up by an attic-mounted Terk 38 wideband antenna with a direct, unsplit feed to the PC.

How ore others here in the Great Frozen North doing in terms of reception?


Jim McCauley

Well my signal from Fox KDVR-DT returned to normal yesterday. Maybe the wind storms and white-outs were affecting my signal on Sunday and Monday. Glad the signal strength is back to normal for the BCS and NFL playoff games.

I noticed that NBC carried the Rose Parade in HD this year; couldn't remember seeing NBC doing that in HD last year. I usually watch the parade on Discovery HD Theatre (aka HD Theatre) because of PQ and no commercials. However, I have to say that NBC's HD PQ from OTA yesterday was superior to HDTHR's HD PQ (didn't want to endure the commercial interruptions, so I stayed with HDTHR).

I live in Fort Collins, and this is what I can receive these days:

KDEV-DT "UNKNOWN #11_0": Fullscreen, some interlace artifacts an occasionally jerky motion.

KWGN-DT 2.1: Jerky widescreen picture, intermittent sound.

KWGN-DT 2.2: Notice that Tube Music has ceased operations.

KBDI-DT 12.1: Some interlace artifacts and pixellation.

KBDI-DC 12.2: Some interlace artifacts and pixellation.

KBDI-WV 12.3: Some interlace artifacts and pixellation.

KTFD-DT 14.1: Very smooth picture and sound.

KDEN-DT 25.1: Very strange pixellation, like teardrops. Good sound.

KDVR-DT 31.1: Jerky widescreen picture, intermittent sound.

The poor performance may be due to my hardware, an ATI HDTV Wonder PCI card in a 1 GHz PC with an NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 video card. The PC is running Ubuntu Linux 7.10 with the latest release of Myth TV. Signal is picked up by an attic-mounted Terk 38 wideband antenna with a direct, unsplit feed to the PC.

How ore others here in the Great Frozen North doing in terms of reception?


Jim McCauley

Jim,

One needs a directional antenna for any good reception.

I have a attic antenna that is fixed toward Denver - I get 31 and 2 with ease and great clarity. 9 comes in OK on most nights. 7 I sometimes get and I have never gotten 4.
The backside of the antenna gets Channel 5 quite well.

Also we have NoCo forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=199726&pp=20&page=44

I am sure this is redundant info to those who have followed this thread for many months, but I received an email today from KUSA in response to an inquiry about when Boulder, Colorado would be able to tune in a digital version of NBC:

"
Dear [me];

KUSA does indeed have a digital signal on air however, it is currently low powered, is transmitted from Republic Plaza in downtown Denver, and is most likely terrain-shielded from your location [in Boulder].

We do anticipate transmitting from Lookout Mountain in the early Spring this year. Since you are able to receive Fox and CW you should be able to receive KUSA as well.

As we approach the completion of construction of the new site at Lookout Mt. we will have announcements on-line and on-air along with more specific dates.

Mike Dant
RF Manager
"

" ... We do anticipate transmitting from Lookout Mountain in the early Spring this year ... "

Mike Dant
RF Manager


I wonder how they plan to do this. I doubt they will attempt to close down analog operations on channel 9 this spring. The FCC table shows they plan digital on channel 9 in 2009. Perhaps they will move their temporary UHF transmitter there from its downtown location. I wouldn't do that unless analysis has projected the moving costs would be offset by increased revenue.

--- CHAS

I wonder how they plan to do this. I doubt they will attempt to close down analog operations on channel 9 this spring. The FCC table shows they plan digital on channel 9 in 2009. Perhaps they will move their temporary UHF transmitter there from its downtown location. I wouldn't do that unless analysis has projected the moving costs would be offset by increased revenue.

--- CHAS

You are right, something doesn't add up.

I wonder how they plan to do this. I doubt they will attempt to close down analog operations on channel 9 this spring.

The FCC has just come out stating that stations who do not have their pre-transition digital facilities on line now, do not have to complete them. The FCC wants stations to concentrate on their post transition facilities and will allow stations to start turning off their analogs if their post transition digital facilities will not cause additional interference to existing analog and digital stations. It is possible, but I don't know how practical it would be for the Denver stations to just go ahead and turn off analog when the tower is ready for digital and just be digital only stations. There are digital only stations on the air now in other markets but they are way down on the food chain with little OTA audience. Denver, a market that has lagged in the DTV effort, could in one fell swoop, take the lead by being the first market to go all digital. The time frame will be short enough that it may not matter in the big picture if they stay analog until the end or not.

Something to think about.

The FCC has just come out stating that stations who do not have their pre-transition digital facilities on line now, do not have to complete them. The FCC wants stations to concentrate on their post transition facilities and will allow stations to start turning off their analogs if their post transition digital facilities will not cause additional interference to existing analog and digital stations. It is possible, but I don't know how practical it would be for the Denver stations to just go ahead and turn off analog when the tower is ready for digital and just be digital only stations. There are digital only stations on the air now in other markets but they are way down on the food chain with little OTA audience. Denver, a market that has lagged in the DTV effort, could in one fell swoop, take the lead by being the first market to go all digital. The time frame will be short enough that it may not matter in the big picture if they stay analog until the end or not.

Something to think about.

I wouldn't hold my breath for an early transition/analog shut off here in Denver. The digital transition has been sooo slow that I would be it would be a PR disaster if they cut the analog early since I would bet a majority of the residents of the front range still don't realize what is scheduled to happen. My guess is that once the digital equipment is in the new building that some of the LCG stations may simply turn it on from there and shut of the temporary low power transmitter on the RP. Of course I would 'never' say 'never'. Just my $0.02.

Denver, a market that has lagged in the DTV effort, could in one fell swoop, take the lead by being the first market to go all digital. The time frame will be short enough that it may not matter in the big picture if they stay analog until the end or not.

I think that advertisers will force all stations in Denver (and everywhere else) to stay with analog until the bitter end. There will be too many eyeballs glued to analog sets right into February 2009.


Jim McCauley

Posted by Scott Pro:
Mike, did you check "All or some of the tv's in my house subscribe to one or more pay services like cable or sat." OR "None of the tv's in my house subscribe to one or more services like cable or sat." ?

I use D* AND rabbit ears on several old sets around the house. So I want 2 boxes. Which should I check?
Actually, I didn't request any coupons and probably won't. I now have 4 HDTV's, only 2 analogs left and they are both connected to Accurian tuners.

To clarify my earlier post, the first offering of coupons will be 22 million and anyone is eligible. The second offering is limited to OTA viewers only and will be about 11.5 million.

As far as the questions about subscribing to cable/sat, I can only offer conjecture. Either there is some statistics gathering going on, the questionnaire is designed for both the first and second rounds of coupon offerings, a combination of both, or some other reason. In any event, I guess if you wait until the second round to request a coupon and you have cable/sat, you'll have to tell a little white lie to get coupons.

I've read the Third Periodic Review........... to convert to digital TV that was issued 12-31-07. It's a long document, over 150 pages, and contains two attachments listing stations that are completely ready for digital conversion and those that have requested extensions based upon certain dates contained in the document - mainly 5-18-08 and 8-18-08.

foxeng gave a good summary at the top of this page (in my opinion!) but I believe his comments were appropriate only for KMGH and KUSA, our two locals returning to their analog channels at analog cutoff. Correct me if I'm in error, foxeng.

This creates a somewhat unique situation for the LCG stations. KCNC and KTVD have final construction permits and are remaining on the pre-transition channels, 34 and 19 respectively, post transition. It appears that they have until 5-18-08 to be fully operational and be classified as "Ready to commence post-transition operations". By that date, I presume they must be full power and be transmitting from Lookout. They can continue their analog transmissions until 2-17-09.

KGMH and KUSA are only required to be "Ready......." by 2-17-09, since they are moving back to their analog channels. However, they can switch over to full power digital anytime they want to but the consequence is that they have to shut down their analogs since they are on the same channels.

Based upon the 5-18-08 date, it looks like LCG's Lookout facility must be fully operational so KCNC and KTVD can comply with FCC requirements. We might be able to pick a "pool" winner for the BBQ right now! (I picked 5-21-08, so I'm probably still in the running!)

So I guess the big question is will KMGH and KUSA go full power digital by 5-18-08? Based upon KUSA's email quoted a few posts earlier, that might be the case. I guess we'll know is a few short months.

Only a few of the metro stations have been listed as "Ready.........". They include KDVR/KFCT and some of the religious/Spanish stations such as 14, 25, 41, etc. Conspicuously absent from that "Ready......." list is KWGN and KRMA (perhaps someone can figure out why - I have some thoughts but I'm not too confident about them). It also appears that KBDI is in a very small minority of stations that has lost its protection for its analog coverage area in its digital switch to channel 13 because, basically, it has horsed around in constructing its final digital facilities. It looks like they have to be fully operational by 5-18-08 also.

It also looks like KPXC is history, at least in the short term. Since they have a valid final construction permit and are not changing pre-transition channels at transition (channel 43), they have to have their digital operation up and running by 5-18-08. Of course, that isn't going to happen. They will also lose all analog coverage protection if they ever get a digital license but that probably isn't a major concern on channel 43. Perhaps they'll become an SD subchannel of some other station. Replacing The Tube on KWGN?

I hope some of you have the time to read the Third Periodic Review so additional light might be shed on the Denver digital transition.

Here's a cite for it:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-228A1.pdf

The attachments are separate documents - FCC-07-228A2 and FCC-07-228A3

foxeng gave a good summary at the top of this page (in my opinion!) but I believe his comments were appropriate only for KMGH and KUSA, our two locals returning to their analog channels at analog cutoff. Correct me if I'm in error, foxeng.

Not being familiar with the Denver market, that is why I said it was POSSIBLE, but I had no idea if it was PROBABLE. From what you say, it is likely NOT to happen. But then again, as the Report and Order states, the FCC wants stations to concentrate on their post transition facilities and if it will be late spring or early summer before Lookout is ready, in my mind, it makes no sense to spend the money to install the pre transition facilities for 6 months and then taken them off. But that is just me. The FCC was adamant that they would not consider weather to be a reason to not make the Feb 17, 2009 deadline unless we have another ice age between now and then. They made it clear they want stations on their post transition facilities on Feb 18, 2009 and they are not willing to tolerate any hanky panky. That had to be the most complete government document I have ever read. They left no stone unturned on this. They had an answer for everything. No gray area in this document!

Re those GrannyVision converters (listed at http://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm) for which NTIA is offering coupons:

Are they all the same circuit, just stuffed into different boxes and rebranded? Or are there actual performance differences? I can't find any online reviews. Are these things just vaporware at this point? If they are coming to market in six weeks or so, you'd think that there would be some online presence...


Jim McCauley

Re those GrannyVision converters (listed at http://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm) for which NTIA is offering coupons:

Are they all the same circuit, just stuffed into different boxes and rebranded? Or are there actual performance differences? I can't find any online reviews. Are these things just vaporware at this point? If they are coming to market in six weeks or so, you'd think that there would be some online presence...


Jim McCauley

There are at least several variations of ATSC tuners (most folks think the LG/Zenith unit will have the best tuner chip) and there are some various feature differences. Many have received Gov't approval for use of the coupon, so at least prototypes exist. It is entirely possible that several Red Chinese factories are working around the clock to produce these units and they will be on the shelves at BB and CC by the end of February. But, don't bet the farm on it!

Posted by Scott Pro:

Actually, I didn't request any coupons and probably won't. I now have 4 HDTV's, only 2 analogs left and they are both connected to Accurian tuners.

To clarify my earlier post, the first offering of coupons will be 22 million and anyone is eligible. The second offering is limited to OTA viewers only and will be about 11.5 million.

As far as the questions about subscribing to cable/sat, I can only offer conjecture. Either there is some statistics gathering going on, the questionnaire is designed for both the first and second rounds of coupon offerings, a combination of both, or some other reason. In any event, I guess if you wait until the second round to request a coupon and you have cable/sat, you'll have to tell a little white lie to get coupons.

The questions are for determining eligibility for either or both phases of the program. There is a requirement to certify the truthfulness of your answers. While this appears to be strictly on the honor system, it would smack of Katrina-like fraud to falsify the answers to unlawfully qualify for the second phase of the Government funded discount program. Let's keep it honest folks.

I didn't intend to insinuate that you should not be honest when requesting coupons. Unfortunately, I don't think everyone will be, though. But I don't think $40 is Katrina-like fraud either.

It looks like, from posts in other threads, that about 1 million coupons have been requested already.

I didn't intend to insinuate that you should not be honest when requesting coupons. Unfortunately, I don't think everyone will be, though. But I don't think $40 is Katrina-like fraud either.

It looks like, from posts in other threads, that about 1 million coupons have been requested already.

So that's already $40M of taxpayer money potentially committed from the first phase of the program. Small change for Uncle Sam, but still a hefty sum.

Full Disclosure: I certified to having one or more TVs connected to satellite and requested 2 coupons. I have numerous ATSC tuners on other TVs and A/V equipment that will become useless 2/17/09. Now I need to make an application for my mother-in-law for 2 coupons. She has analog cable to one TV and two other TVs dependent on rabbit ears. She also has no clue what the changeover from analog to digital TV is all about, and she is computer illiterate. So she would just wonder what happened come 2/17/09 without my assistance.

So that's already $40M of taxpayer money potentially committed from the first phase of the program. Small change for Uncle Sam, but still a hefty sum.

Full Disclosure: I certified to having one or more TVs connected to satellite and requested 2 coupons. I have numerous ATSC tuners on other TVs and A/V equipment that will become useless 2/17/09. Now I need to make an application for my mother-in-law for 2 coupons. She has analog cable to one TV and two other TVs dependent on rabbit ears. She also has no clue what the changeover from analog to digital TV is all about, and she is computer illiterate. So she would just wonder what happened come 2/17/09 without my assistance.

Be a good son and take care of her.

CEB II,
I guess I don't fully understand your posts about the coupon program. No one is committing any fraud or devious act requesting coupons in the first phase of the program. Every household is eligible and apparently you've applied for coupons.

Yeah, $40 million is not chump change. But it's part of what's been allocated to the coupon program by Congress. And there's other costs associated with the program, such as government salaries, administration by contractors such as IBM, etc.

I don't mean to open a can of worms here, but if you've got an issue with the coupon program, I'm not sure I understand what it is.

I was talking to my cousin, a vowed non tekie type, who wondered why is HDTV being crammed down everyone's throats. He wants to keep his TV the same and if they wanna broadcast HDTV then fine...do it in addition to the normal TV. It is an interesting observation since there is nothing wrong with the current system as far as I know. Yes he knows about the converter boxes and how the government is gonna pay for most of it but he STILL doesn't want things to change.

Nobody's cramming HDTV down people's throats - they're just changing the analog TV system (which uses more bandwidth) to a digital system. Just so happens that the digital system is capable of HD. Unless he's using an antenna only for his TV, nothing changes for him.

Nobody's cramming HDTV down people's throats - they're just changing the analog TV system (which uses more bandwidth) to a digital system. Just so happens that the digital system is capable of HD. Unless he's using an antenna only for his TV, nothing changes for him.

And he will not see HD on his old set/converter combination.

I think there will be lots of viewers who will need some help getting it working. Those with inadequate antennas are going to have problems especially in the areas where all the stations are going UHF. I have always found receiving UHF to be somewhat problematic.

--- CHAS

Nobody's cramming HDTV down people's throats - they're just changing the analog TV system (which uses more bandwidth) to a digital system. Just so happens that the digital system is capable of HD. Unless he's using an antenna only for his TV, nothing changes for him.

I would argue that they're just rearranging the spectrum into contiguous blocks for auction while converting to digital in the process. They also could have just assigned each station a new analog channel and told them to start broadcasting there by a certain date to accomplish the same outcome minus the digital.

As for the coupon program, I applied for two coupons. I will probably use one to purchase an OTA tuner finally so I can evaluate my reception situation once the tower is completed. If reception is good, I'll buy a real HD tuner or a new HDTV with a tuner built in. If reception stinks, I'm only out $30 or $40 to find out.

I'd much rather see a program for a $40 coupon to use to pay to recycle my old tube TVs than the current GrannyVision converter coupon program.

My 2 cents.

-Glen

CEB II,
I guess I don't fully understand your posts about the coupon program. No one is committing any fraud or devious act requesting coupons in the first phase of the program. Every household is eligible and apparently you've applied for coupons.

Yeah, $40 million is not chump change. But it's part of what's been allocated to the coupon program by Congress. And there's other costs associated with the program, such as government salaries, administration by contractors such as IBM, etc.

I don't mean to open a can of worms here, but if you've got an issue with the coupon program, I'm not sure I understand what it is.

My only issue with the coupon program is that anyone applying for the coupons should correctly answer the questions and so certify. Telling a "little white lie" on the question regarding currently having one of more TVs on cable or satellite may quality, or at least won't disqualify, an applicant for Phase II coupons, but requires a false certification. The false certification qualifies the applicant for a Government funded purchase subsidy to which the applicant is not legally entitled. Yeah, it is only a $40 per coupon subsidy, but it should still go to those for whom it is intended.

I'd much rather see a program for a $40 coupon to use to pay to recycle my old tube TVs than the current GrannyVision converter coupon program.
-Glen

Amen!

Nobody's cramming HDTV down people's throats - they're just changing the analog TV system (which uses more bandwidth) to a digital system.

The analog channel and the digital channel both use the same spectrum bandwidth: 6 MHz.

Nobody's cramming HDTV down people's throats - they're just changing the analog TV system (which uses more bandwidth) to a digital system. Just so happens that the digital system is capable of HD. Unless he's using an antenna only for his TV, nothing changes for him.

I'll try to 'spin' this a bit.

If the goal were to just transmit a single stream NTSC class image (480i) we can make an argument that it could be done digitally in less then the 6 Mhz bandwidth required by analog. Of course, ATSC is about increased transmission capability so 6 MHz channels were retained.

--- CHAS

Also are adjacent channel problems really reduced with the digital transmission?

Also are adjacent channel problems really reduced with the digital transmission?

Yes. You can have two or three adjacent channels from the same transmitter site in digital, something you can't do with analog.

Anyone else having issues with KRMA-DT this AM? I'm seeing constant pixellation on both 6-1 and 6-2.

The analog channel and the digital channel both use the same spectrum bandwidth: 6 MHz.
I stand corrected. I always thought digital channels used less bandwidth. So the extra bandwidth that Congress is auctioning off is just the higher channel numbers that aren't going to be used by TV after next February, then?

I stand corrected. I always thought digital channels used less bandwidth.
Therein lies the crux of the problem. The FCC couldn't alter the legacy bandwidth w/o screwing everything up(all existing tuners would puke). If anything, we could have used more bandwidth. IIRC that 6Mhz allows something like a 19.2Mbs digital transmission rate. And, they need something like 14Mbs for a decent HD data stream(video & sound). That is why you have seen so many people b!tch about subchannels, as they take up bandwidth that could be used by the main HD channel.

So the extra bandwidth that Congress is auctioning off is just the higher channel numbers that aren't going to be used by TV after next February, then?
Supposedly. But it wouldn't surprise me if they took open 'chunks' and auctioned them off also. Many rural areas will have lots of bandwidth just sitting there.
....jc

I stand corrected. I always thought digital channels used less bandwidth. So the extra bandwidth that Congress is auctioning off is just the higher channel numbers that aren't going to be used by TV after next February, then?

Channels 52 - 69. Roughly 700 - 800 MHz with about 24 MHz adjacent to 800 Mhz is being allocated to public safety type services; the rest to be auctioned with some already sold. All other spectrum currently allocated to TV broadcasting remains.

The press makes a 'big deal' about the 10s of billions going into the treasury from the auctions. Maybe the money will fund the government for a day or so. :)

So they need to go digital to repack the spectrum to accommodate displaced stations while mitigating interference. Unfortunately, Channels 2-6 are not very suitable for digital and that has complicated the process.

Hopefully, someone went through the technical and business trade offs. :rolleyes:

--- CHAS

The press makes a 'big deal' about the 10s of billions going into the treasury from the auctions. Maybe the money will fund the government for a day or so. :)
--- CHAS

When they have one of these auctions, how long do the winners retain rights to those frequencies, before they have to pay again or have them re-auctioned? I would have to assume they are not granted in perpetuity.

When they have one of these auctions, how long do the winners retain rights to those frequencies, before they have to pay again or have them re-auctioned? I would have to assume they are not granted in perpetuity.

A winning bidder has actually bought a license to use the spectrum. FCC station licenses have expiration dates and must be renewed. So I would think they can use the spectrum forever by renewing the license and paying its renewal fee.

I have seen references to 2015 expiration dates for 700 MHz licenses.

My understanding is that the FCC hasn't been granted perpetual authority to conduct spectrum auctions.

--- CHAS

Anyone else having issues with KRMA-DT this AM? I'm seeing constant pixellation on both 6-1 and 6-2.

I did check KRMA 6-1 about noon and it was breaking up a bit.

I have been having intermittent problems with KRMA-DT since just before Thanksgiving.
According to their web site http://www.krma.org
KRMA-DT (Denver-area digital channel) is currently at low power. We are working on this problem and hope to have it back to full power as soon as possible. This will only affect over-the-air digital channel viewers.
I normally get it reasonably well on warm days. When it gets cold for a while or we get some snow, I often lose it completely. My antenna is in the attic, so I don't think it is being effected significantly by the weather. I have no idea why the temperature should effect the signal, but the pattern seems to be quite repeatable. After a cold night, I have no signal. As it warms up, I get a weak signal with break-up, and if it get fairly warm, I eventually get a good signal. If the evening get fairly cold, at some point over the night, the signal will degrade and deteriorate to a no signal condition.

I normally get it reasonably well on warm days. When it gets cold for a while or we get some snow, I often lose it completely. My antenna is in the attic, so I don't think it is being effected significantly by the weather. I have no idea why the temperature should effect the signal, but the pattern seems to be quite repeatable. After a cold night, I have no signal. As it warms up, I get a weak signal with break-up, and if it get fairly warm, I eventually get a good signal. If the evening get fairly cold, at some point over the night, the signal will degrade and deteriorate to a no signal condition.

OK, I have to say it...

Your hamsters are getting cold in the attic! Keep 'em warm and you won't loose any reception! ;)

On the non-snarky side, are you using any coax to your antenna? It sounds like there is a break in the cable. It could be at the connector or anywhere between the threshold to the attic to the antenna. It is not a problem when it is warm, but when the cable gets cold, the metal contracts and looses connectivity... just a thought.

OK, I have to say it...

Your hamsters are getting cold in the attic! Keep 'em warm and you won't loose any reception! ;)

On the non-snarky side, are you using any coax to your antenna? It sounds like there is a break in the cable. It could be at the connector or anywhere between the threshold to the attic to the antenna. It is not a problem when it is warm, but when the cable gets cold, the metal contracts and looses connectivity... just a thought.
The problem is only with 6-1 which they admit is operating at low power. The original notice is almost a month old. I am far more suspicious of their break-through design antenna mounted on the ice bridge. There may be mechanical issues with it that effect the transmission characteristics.
FYI: I have been getting KBDI digital most of the time, which should be much tougher to get because of the shadowing that effects much of Louisville. The quality of 12-1,12-2, and 12-3 does not follow any similar temperature pattern. 2-1,4-1,7-1,9-1,9-2,20-1, 31-1 and 53-1 are rock solid. I really don't think the issue is at my end.

Wow. Channel 9 just did a story on the new tower!

Actually pretty nice story and shots of the tower & building. Of course CARE is still fighting. Here is a link:

http://www.9news.com/money/article.aspx?storyid=83952

Again, they said completion in Spring '08. I feel irradiated already!

I saved the story on my HR21 and can burn it to a DVD. I don't know how or if I could post it.

Hopefully Channel 9 can make a video link to it on their web site.

They just did! Thanks!

I saw the KUSA tower story. Thought they gave too much time to sCARE. IMO, they should have just kept on point - construction of the tower facilities. I also noticed that the top section shown in the story appeared to be orange at the bottom and white on the upper part. So I guess the sections are not all white or all orange.

I hated the fact that they used sCARE's own "supertower" nomenclature, and any analysis as to why potential home buyers would be scared away by one tower where there used to be four.

Then again, perhaps if homebuyers are scared away, or are at least informed buyers, we can avoid this nonsense if KRMA or someone else needs to put a new tower up on Lookout.

FYI: I have been getting KBDI digital most of the time, which should be much tougher to get because of the shadowing that effects much of Louisville. The quality of 12-1,12-2, and 12-3 does not follow any similar temperature pattern. 2-1,4-1,7-1,9-1,9-2,20-1, 31-1 and 53-1 are rock solid. I really don't think the issue is at my end.
You must really be in east Louisville, as at my home near South Boulder Road and McCaslin there has never been even a hint of KBDI-DT.

You must really be in east Louisville, as at my home near South Boulder Road and McCaslin there has never been even a hint of KBDI-DT.

Actually, we are pretty close to each other. I am less than a half mile from that intersection, as the crow flies. I live 3 block south of South Boulder road, just off Washington. I am a half block east of Coal Creek Elementary.

I was watching New Yankee workshop today on 12-1 at 11:30AM and it was clean. I do have a Channel Master 7777 preamp connected to my attic mounted antennas. Sometimes I get get break-up or lose it completely, but there does not seem to be a pattern. I suspect atmospheric changes, as much as anything.

Actually, we are pretty close to each other. I am less than a half mile from that intersection, as the crow flies. I live 3 block south of South Boulder road, just off Washington. I am a half block east of Coal Creek Elementary.

Interesting as we're about the same place east-west; the extra couple blocks north that I am must make all the difference.

I can point an antenna directly at Squaw and I get nothing, never have in the past four or five years I've had ATSC tuners.

if and when she stops attacking the towers:
http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2007-05-27--the-truth-about-wireless-devices.html?a

if and when she stops attacking the towers:
http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2007-05-27--the-truth-about-wireless-devices.html?a
Now that's funny! :)

^^ That was great. :eek::eek:
:)

if and when she stops attacking the towers:
http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2007-05-27--the-truth-about-wireless-devices.html?a

ROTFLMAO!

Mr. Gakon, would you be so kind as to run a profile from 1010 S Joliet, aurora? I'm gonna do an HDTV presentation next week and I wonder if I can get a signal...

Thanks!

Tim

I would like a HD Tuner with HDMI and digital audio outputs that would feed into both a digital video recorder and my Denon 3808ci receiver. The digital video recorder should also have HDMI outputs so that I can feed that into my receiver as well. I want to use OTA broadcasts and not have to pay any subscription fees like TiVo, cable, or satellite.

What kind of hardware would I need and what are the reputable brands?

Thanks.

I would like a HD Tuner with HDMI and digital audio outputs that would feed into both a digital video recorder and my Denon 3808ci receiver. The digital video recorder should also have HDMI outputs so that I can feed that into my receiver as well. I want to use OTA broadcasts and not have to pay any subscription fees like TiVo, cable, or satellite.

What kind of hardware would I need and what are the reputable brands?

Thanks.
Well, you'll need to build your own machine. Put Linux on it and install MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/).

Make sure you get a video card with an HDMI output on it to put into your machine.

You can either get a couple of HD tuner cards to put into the box, or just get an HD Homerun (http://www.9thtee.com/hdhomerun.htm) with 2 OTA tuners and connect that to your home network.

Or you can get a TiVo and pay $12.95/month for service. Either way should work - I think MythTV is sort of stable now.

[edited to add]There's an HTPC forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=26) here at AVS - I'm sure they'd be able to help with selecting components for a HTPC (HTPC=home theater personal computer)

So what's the deal with KMGH? Jeopardy's been SD for the last two days...

Again, they said completion in Spring '08. I feel irradiated already!

According to sCARE you'll be nice and tan for when summer roles around :D

I also noticed that the top section shown in the story appeared to be orange at the bottom and white on the upper part. So I guess the sections are not all white or all orange.

Tower sections are 20-30 feet in length (I don't remember if the size for this tower was posted), therefore, if the tower has 100' colored sections, the change is going to occur within a physical section.

if and when she stops attacking the towers:
http://www.wellingtongrey.net/miscellanea/archive/2007-05-27--the-truth-about-wireless-devices.html?a

Yes, that was absolutely funny.

I guess I am safe though, as I have my DSL modem's WiFi portion turned off :D

A while back, the tower lighting issue was discussed. I pointed out that when the new tower in Madison was built, the lighting wasn't added until the tower was topped out.

Supposidly the tower crew should have known the regs about that and installed the wiring and lights when those sections were completed (that were to get lights).

Recently it dawned on me that a boatload of people never discovered the problem:

1) The owner of the tower, ACME. I've talked with the guy from ACME that wrote the checks for this construction.

2) The construction contractor, who I've also met and talked with several times.

3) The tower sub-contractor, i.e., the crew that actually built the tower.

4) The chief engineer of the station at the site location.

5) The chief engineer of the station owned my ACME

And lastely.... the tower inspection staff. There were several times during the construction whereby the tower was inspected.

SIX different people and none of them noticed the lack of lighting.

So what's the deal with KMGH? Jeopardy's been SD for the last two days...

This Friday's match will be won by a woman. :) Enjoy eating those pastries and crumpet. And finally, don't let the "pun"s get to you. :D

Something truly odd popped up in my channel scans (on my MythTV-equipped PC). After timing out on ATSC channel 40, I saw a notice that said "Updating Services. After that, SIXTEEN channels popped up. Only the last (DAYSTAR) was viewable, so I Googled the other call letters:

1 KUWF: unknown
2 KTVC: RTN affiliate in Eugene OR
3 KQUP: RTN affiliate in Pullman WA
4 WMFQ: unknown
5 WUMN Ku: Univision affiliate in Minneapolis MN
6 KKYK: RTN affiliate in Camden AR
7 KWBF: Fox affiliate in Little Rock AR
8 KDEV-LP: RTN affiliate in Denver/Aurora CO (tunable on my rig as "UNKNOWN11#0")
9 KWKO: unknown
10 WGMU: MyNetworkTV affiliate in Burlington VT
11 WPXS: unknown
13 KUTF: Telefutura affiliate in Logan UT
14 LatTV: Spanish-language network with stations in TX and AZ
15 KCBU: RTN affiliate in Price UT
16 KWBM: MyNetworkTV affiliate in Springfield MO
17 DAYSTAR: DAYSTAR religious network (satellite)

I wonder if this might be a tower test with some relatively random metadata injected into the stream -- I don't think that 16 video streams can be carried on one ATSC channel. I can't RDF the direction because my antenna is attic-mounted and can't pivot more than 10 degrees. Has anyone else seen these?

The RTN affiliate (KDEV-LP) that comes in on UNKNOWN11#0 broadcasts from a tower south-southwest of my location in northern Fort Collins, so I wonder if someone is monkeying around with that facility. Does anyone know where that tower is actually located and who owns it?


Jim McCauley
Fort Collins CO

The numerous sub-channels on channel 40, are, I suspect, from KRMT, a religious channel that also operates analog channel 41. Their PSIP info has been screwed up, to some extent, since they went on the air. They used to put out blank channels on 40-1 thru 40-15 that my Accurian tuner would find. Their main channel was on 40-16. The last time I checked, and it wasn't lately, their main channel now shows up as 40-17.

KDEV is on channel 11. This channel has never put out any PSIP information, which is why it probably shows up as channel 11-0. Only my tuners that can directly tune a digital channel number can decode this channel. I recently filed a complaint about this station and its lack of PSIP information with the FCC. We'll see where that goes. If you want to see where channel 11's tower is located, go to www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html, type in the call sign in the search field near the top of the page, click on "TV Query (detailed output +CDBS links), click on "submit data", and then click on "service countour map" under the info for KDEV DT. It's transmitter is somewhere west of Ft. Collins.

It's transmitter is somewhere west of Ft. Collins.

Yup. I can see it from my porch. The transmitter is in the antenna cluster just north of Horsetooth Mountain.

Bad news. The main TV tower fell today in Jefferson County........





Fortunately it was in Jefferson County, Little Rock, Arkansas, and fortunately, no one was seriously hurt.

2,000 Foot Television Tower Collapses: One Person Injured (http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=de8ac5eb-a5a6-40b9-aeb6-7e924c93f618)

From the AP version of the story (http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0108/487185.html):
An engineer said damage and injuries were limited because of the tower's design. Wayne Morgan, an engineer for Vinco Inc. who was at the scene this afternoon, said that it looks like the tower did exactly what it was designed to do. He said it was designed to crumple up and fall pretty much straight down.

Morgan said the guy wires are designed so they don't put too much tension on the tower, pulling it in one direction or another, and it fell straight down like it was supposed to.

Bad news. The main TV tower fell today in Jefferson County, Little Rock, Arkansas, and fortunately, no one was seriously hurt.

2,000 Foot Television Tower Collapses: One Person Injured (http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=de8ac5eb-a5a6-40b9-aeb6-7e924c93f618)

Here is another link: http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0108/487185.html

The above is by the affected owner of the tower. Of interest is the info from the chief engineer describing that the falling did what it was supposed to, i.e., fall down upon itself. Another piece of proven info that sCARE is full of crap. Here was a 2000' tower that crumpled upon itself and sCARE was worried about a 730' tower topling over in basically one piece. Yet, sCARE was spreading "fear" as all here knew.

The article indicated that guy wires were being restrung. I think a little education is needed here as I would have thought that there would have been riggers on the tower while that was being done. Was it possibly during a break? Depending on how far up they were, one just doesn't climb down for a break and climb back up :D

Hopefully they'll figure out what happened.

I thought that FOX-31 no longer had to "throw the HD switch". No HD love on 31-1 or D* 31 for Green Bay/Seattle game. It is HD on ch. 89 on D* from L.A.

I thought that FOX-31 no longer had to "throw the HD switch". No HD love on 31-1 or D* 31 for Green Bay/Seattle game. It is HD on ch. 89 on D* from L.A.

Really, really bad form KDVR! Divisional playoffs? C'mon, get it together!

WTF, no HD, just missed a td...

KDVR HD signal fixed, about 1 hour into the game. Could be worse.

nm

On the Fort Collins translator, the pre-game show was in SD, but the entire game was broadcast in HD. The main problem we had up here was 2 extended "signal freezes" of about 2 minutes apiece. One of them was during the Packer's 1st touchdown drive.

Hi,
I live in Arvada,CO and I am receiving channels 2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 6-1, 6-2, 7-1, 9-1, 9-2, 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, 14-1, 20-1, 25-1, 31-1, 53-1. Are these the only Digital channels available right now over the air or I am not receiving any other channel.
Thanks for your time,
Sri

Hi,
I live in Arvada,CO and I am receiving channels 2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 6-1, 6-2, 7-1, 9-1, 9-2, 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, 14-1, 20-1, 25-1, 31-1, 53-1. Are these the only Digital channels available right now over the air or I am not receiving any other channel.
Thanks for your time,
Sri

Where in Arvada? I'm in A-West, abutting 93 and am wondering if there's OTA HD with North Table Mountain blocking line of sight to Lookout Mountain (where the antennas are).

Mr. Gakon, would you be so kind as to run a profile from 1010 S Joliet, aurora? I'm gonna do an HDTV presentation next week and I wonder if I can get a signal...

Thanks!

Tim

I am so sorry I didn't get to this sooner. I read it at work and promptly forgot about it. If this is too late, I hope you didn't have any trouble - you should have had pretty good LOS to both locations. Don't forget the 700' height of both RP and the towers, which are not included in the plots.

srid and ruckerz - those are pretty comprehensive lists, at least for the major stations. 2 and 31 are broadcasting from Lookout, 4, 7, and 9 are coming from Republic Plaza downtown, 6 and 14 are coming from Mt. Morrison, and 12 is coming from Squaw Mt. I'm not sure about 25 and 53 - those are much smaller stations. If you're getting 2 and 31, you're not getting much blockage from Table Mt.

I am so sorry I didn't get to this sooner. I read it at work and promptly forgot about it.
Gakon,
Don't even think that way! You've been a great help to me and countless others. I, and I'm sure everyone else, really appreciate what you are doing(and have done)!
....jc

Where in Arvada? I'm in A-West, abutting 93 and am wondering if there's OTA HD with North Table Mountain blocking line of sight to Lookout Mountain (where the antennas are).

I live near 87th wardsworth. My Antenna (I have build by own DB4) is facing south west direction. Occationally when it snows, I loose channel 4-1 or 12. Other than that I am getting very stable reception.

I was out walking my dog last night and there it was! The tower is now breaking the top of Lookout Mountain from the west side. It looks a lot taller from the Denver side, but, it's still not that high looking at it from Genesee.

Also, I got an invite from the LCG folks to come out and get a tour at the end of the month. I'll take pics and share when I do!

I am so sorry I didn't get to this sooner. I read it at work and promptly forgot about it. If this is too late, I hope you didn't have any trouble -

No problem! The presentation went well, I was able to get RP but the signals were in 4:3, so I must have not scanned the channels well. I got channel 6 and NOVA in HD, so we all saw what we needed.

Thanks!

Tim

After many months of stalling, and watching HD with my old Sony HD200, along with local OTA low-power HD, I decided to switch over to the new H21 and 5 lnb dish, and get a few new HD channels. No charge upgrade, they called it.
The tech showed up 2 hrs late, and wanted $20 cash for RG6 for the new cable run.
I sent him packing. Rescheduled for next weekend.

What would you guys have done?

After many months of stalling, and watching HD with my old Sony HD200, along with local OTA low-power HD, I decided to switch over to the new H21 and 5 lnb dish, and get a few new HD channels. No charge upgrade, they called it.
The tech showed up 2 hrs late, and wanted $20 cash for RG6 for the new cable run.
I sent him packing. Rescheduled for next weekend.

What would you guys have done?

Was it a wall fish or anything else unusual? RG6 is the standard (and required) cable type for the KaKu DIRECTV installs.

Ask your question here (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12), and you will get many knowledgeable responses. It sounds a little sketchy, but more details would be required to know if he was trying to scam you.

After many months of stalling, and watching HD with my old Sony HD200, along with local OTA low-power HD, I decided to switch over to the new H21 and 5 lnb dish, and get a few new HD channels. No charge upgrade, they called it.
The tech showed up 2 hrs late, and wanted $20 cash for RG6 for the new cable run.
I sent him packing. Rescheduled for next weekend.

What would you guys have done?

RG6 coax is required for any of the newer satellite TV hookups. Free installation presumes you have adequate coax runs from the distribution/grounding block to the receiver installation(s) (they run the coax between the dish, the switch(es), and the distribution/grounding block). $20 is not a bad price for labor and material to install a coax run, but they should have warned you about the possible extra costs.

What I would have done is had the proper coax run in place before the installer arrived, but if I didn't know the new coax run was needed, I would have just had the installer do it for $20.

The last install I had with E* involved running a new line from my multiswitch to add a new 211 receiver in the basement. New RG6 was installed from the multiswitch, under my crawl space, through a ceiling area with HVAC duct work, and finally down a wall to a new outlet, which E* also installed. NO CHARGE.

I'd have told the installer to go packing also. I guess the labor's free but the coax isn't? And what about the outlet? Sounds like a scam to me.

The tech showed up 2 hrs late, and wanted $20 cash for RG6 for the new cable run.I've never heard of any company installer who asks for cash, I would call Directv and ask them if this is legal.

I think they finally figured out why all the NIMBY's can't sleep, are confused, say stupid things and drive their wheelchairs off cliffs etc.

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3353768.ece

"David Schick, the chief executive of Exradia, which manufactures protective devices against the radiation, called on ministers to conduct "a formal public inquiry" into the effects of mobile phones."

I am glad to see are no conflicts of interest like our NIMBY's. :D

It looks like the folks in Western Colorado have some major problems for both CBS and Fox SD and HD OTA. The KREX and KFQX studios caught fire this morning.

http://www.gjsentinel.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/communities/breaking/entries/2008/01/20/tv_stations_building_on_fire.html?cxntfid=blogs_gjsentinelco m_breaking_news


I wonder if KCNC and KDVR could feed the transmitter site at the Colorado National Monument until they can rebuild?

KKCO has an updated video on their web site: http://www.nbc11news.com/home/headlines/13933592.html

I just picked up a new Panasonic plasma a couple weeks ago and I'm having some issues with audio on HD OTA signals that I'm trying to figure out. I first wanted to check with local residents to see if anyone else has seen this.

Only when viewing HD content, if the picture goes mostly white or mostly black (say during program credits) the audio stream either gets choppy or drops completely. This happens regardless of using the internal speakers or running the audio out through optical to my receiver. This happens with a 100% signal.

Has anyone else seen this problem?

I haven't seen anything like that. Honestly, it's hard to understand why an audio drop would occur when the TV was showing a specific color. That does sound like a signal issue.

I was out walking my dog last night and there it was! The tower is now breaking the top of Lookout Mountain from the west side. It looks a lot taller from the Denver side, but, it's still not that high looking at it from Genesee.

Also, I got an invite from the LCG folks to come out and get a tour at the end of the month. I'll take pics and share when I do!

It looks like they're close to putting up the last one or two sections to the tower. It may be done (structurally) when you get up there. I don't envy the guys who have been doing the installation. Even if they weren't out there today, it hasn't been the warmest weather while the tower's been going up.

It looks like they're close to putting up the last one or two sections to the tower. It may be done (structurally) when you get up there. I don't envy the guys who have been doing the installation. Even if they weren't out there today, it hasn't been the warmest weather while the tower's been going up.

I wonder if it's worse putting up tower sections in weather like this or in the middle of summer…

I wonder if it's worse putting up tower sections in weather like this or in the middle of summer…

Winter.

Winter.
Sure about that?

Perhaps not a summer here, but in the Midwest…

(Nothing like 90+ºF with a 80ºF dewpoint…)

Is it just me, or has 6.1 been totally gone the last few nights?

Sure about that?

Perhaps not a summer here, but in the Midwest…

(Nothing like 90+ºF with a 80ºF dewpoint…)

Even in the sunny south, tower crews will tell you that a cooling wind always blows up top during the summer that can sometimes make it where long sleeves are needed depending on the location. In the winter, and it doesn't matter where unless you are in a tropical zone, you have to bundle up and winter gloves makes work more difficult. You don't want to expose your skin to the cold metal for very long or damage can set in. Plus you don't have a wind chill in the summer, you do in the winter.

Yeah, looks like KRMA 6.1 is being weird, It shows as at least 70% on my TV and works fine, and it shows as at least 75% on a media center signal strength check on my pc but using media center to view and record ... no signal. It started I think around midnight on Sunday

tower crews will tell you that a cooling wind always blows up top during the summer

...

Plus you don't have a wind chill in the summer, you do in the winter.

:confused::confused:

:confused::confused:

Just because the wind isn't blowing on the ground doesn't mean there is no wind blowing 500 ft up and vise versa. Temperature drops as you increase height and you can have a nice cool breeze blowing at 500 ft and sweltering on the ground.

When the temperature reaches a certain point (I forget what it is off the top of my head) you cease to have what the body considers a "wind chill". If the temperature is 35 degree with the wind blowing at 15 MPH, it will feel to exposed skin to be below freezing. Being in Colorado, you should understand wind chill.

I thought it was my rabbit ears yesterday afternoon - KRMA 6.1 was cutting out on me periodically.
If I position my antenna correctly I can usually get their signal without any dropouts.
Maybe the cold weather is causing them problems.

Just because the wind isn't blowing on the ground doesn't mean there is no wind blowing 500 ft up and vise versa. Temperature drops as you increase height and you can have a nice cool breeze blowing at 500 ft and sweltering on the ground.

When the temperature reaches a certain point (I forget what it is off the top of my head) you cease to have what the body considers a "wind chill". If the temperature is 35 degree with the wind blowing at 15 MPH, it will feel to exposed skin to be below freezing. Being in Colorado, you should understand wind chill.

I understand what you are saying. I was thinking of "wind chill" as the force of the wind making it feel colder, whether it is in the summer (feels like 80 instead of 100) or in the winter (feels like 25 instead of 35). Semantics. :o

I think they finally figured out why all the NIMBY's can't sleep, are confused, say stupid things and drive their wheelchairs off cliffs etc.

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3353768.ece

I think it's just the worrying about the mobile phone radiation that wrecks your sleep. I don't worry about it...I sleep fine.

-Glen

I thought it was my rabbit ears yesterday afternoon - KRMA 6.1 was cutting out on me periodically.
If I position my antenna correctly I can usually get their signal without any dropouts.
Maybe the cold weather is causing them problems.
I have been seeing a temperature related problem with KRMA-DT since just before Thanksgiving. They have been acknowledging on their web site that they are running at reduced power. The first time I observed the admission was about two weeks after Thanksgiving.
I have mentioned the problem a few times. The only response I recall was a wise-crack and the theory that it had to be at my end, even though the problem is only with KRMA-DT. When it is very cold I have been losing the signal. I could not receive it at all on Monday, when it was extremely cold all day long. During the fairly cold weather, I usually start getting the signal sometime in the morning and lose it late at night, often after midnight.
From the posts I have noticed, Louisville, Lafayette, and Longmont all seem to be experiening poor signal strength from the Mt Morrison transmitter.

Does anyone have any idea why the signal would degrade with low temperature? I do have the feeling that the signal recovers earlier when their is a bright sun. That might suggest that something is changing mechanically when it heats and cools. I don't think that there are a lot of transmitters like the one KRMA is using, so there may not be a lot of experience with it under the thermal stresses that would occur here.

Does anyone have any KRMA-DT signal strength readings taken at various times during the day?

Does anyone have any KRMA-DT signal strength readings taken at various times during the day?

I have seen that my reception of the stations broadcasting from RP change according to the weather. Anything atmospheric can have an effect on the signals. For me, the RP stations come in best when it is cooler out. During the summer, I can't get a lock on channel 7 during the daytime. But at night, the signal comes in just enough to not break up too much. During the winter time, I can get all of the RP signals quite well.


Here are a couple of graphs of KRMA's signal strength taken from southern Longmont.

This graph is of the past week, as of 9:30pm 1/22/08. The numbers below the graph are the hour of the day. Sorry that I don't have the actual days indicated. As you can see, there are a few times that KRMA appears to have gone off the air. Once it came back with a slightly better signal, and the other time appears like it may have been maintenance or something.
http://www.bearhunter.com/krma-week.jpg

This graph is of the past month, so that you can get a historical idea of the signal strength that I see. Again, the numbers below the graph is the hour, but the entire graph is for 30 days, so that can give you an idea of where the days are divided.
http://www.bearhunter.com/krma-month.jpg

So, as you can see, the signal that I am receiving has been fairly constant. While I don't watch KRMA very much, every time that I've looked at it, my signal has been fine. Again, this is all in southern Longmont.

Just want to say thanks to bjcatlin for the KRMA data. I guess it wipes out every theory I have had about my KRMA-DT reception.

I just moved to Lakewood and don't have line of sight to either downtown or LOM. I am near Wads and Hampden and am slightly down in Bear Valley. When I moved in I plugged in the coax and lo and behold I was receiving free cable! I get the following stations in HD through the cable connection: 2.1, 6.1, 9.1 and Fox HD on channel 655.

Unfortunately I don't get 4.1 , 7.1 or 12.1 through the cable (and Lost starts on the 30th), so i went to Best Buy and picked up a Terk - Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna Model: HDTVA | SKU: 7322587.

When i plugged in the antenna and aimed it at downtown and LOM I got NOTHING. Well, I sort of got 13 and 20, but I think I would get those without anything plugged in. But other than that I didn't get any reception of any channels, not even the analog channels.

I realize it isn't the best antenna in the world, but i expected to get some kind of signal. Do I need to buy a huge expensive outdoor antenna to get a signal from downtown, or does it sound like I may be doing something wrong?? I switched the TV from CATV to ANT before i plugged the antenna in.

Am i just in a huge dead spot and will be forced to subscribe to comcast to get ABC in HD?? Will I have better luck once the new tower is online? I don't think i will have line of sight even with the new tower.

Update: I was just perusing the Comcast forum and see that everyone is getting free cable on QAM. It looks like the HD channels have been jumping around at random and someone had the latest locations posted so I will try and maybe i will get lucky and have ABC HD on one of the new channels.

I would still appreciate if anyone can answer my questions about the antenna delimna just in case comcast decides to start encrypt these.

The general concensus is that Terk antennas are overpriced hype more than anything. You would probably have better luck with the RS double bow-tie if you can find one. Outdoors a ChannelMaster is the preferred antenna; and there are some other good ones too. Some people have had success with the Silver Sensor indoors.
Unfortunately I don't get 4.1 , 7.1 or 12.1 through the cable (and Lost starts on the 30th), so i went to Best Buy and picked up a Terk - Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna Model: HDTVA | SKU: 7322587.

When i plugged in the antenna and aimed it at downtown and LOM I got NOTHING. Well, I sort of got 13 and 20, but I think I would get those without anything plugged in. But other than that I didn't get any reception of any channels, not even the analog channels.

Colorado Getaways on CBS4 is going HD starting Saturday: http://cbs4denver.com/local/colorado.getaways.high.2.634781.html

Does this mean that KCNC has HD editing facilities now? Can local news in HD be far behind?

Does this mean that KCNC has HD editing facilities now? Can local news in HD be far behind?

Please, please, please....

I am getting really tired of watching KUSA. The variety will be nice.

I would still appreciate if anyone can answer my questions about the antenna delimna just in case comcast decides to start encrypt these.

I'd say that you'll have to get a channelmaster & put it up on the roof with a good amount of mast.

I'm just north of Jewel & I can barely see DT. & LOM.

I had to use 20ft of mast with my halfway decent HD antenna to get most stuff. However I can only do one direction. So I chose DT to get 2,4,7,9,&20.

31 & 6 are out. I also have cable anyway with a DVR so I just use that for 31 & 6.

With you down at the bottom I dought any indoor ant. will work until everyone goes full power from Loookout.

OH, there is a Co. comcast thread. They might be able to help you find the missing locals on QAM. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=293562&page=101

I'd say that you'll have to get a channelmaster & put it up on the roof with a good amount of mast.

Do you expect he'd still need this after the new tower comes on line? We might be optimistic about when that's going to happen, but if it's just a backup to the QAM channels, he may be able to wait to see if his existing Terd will work .

It depends on how fer south he is of Yale. The closer to Yale the worce it's gona be I think. Even when they go to full power. Hel, even driving down Yale from Seridan to Kipling on Yale I've had bad reception on FM.

It might pay to wait though If he can get by with Qam. He does want to see the big game though.:D

KRMA-DT has certainly been hit or miss lately. A couple of nights ago it was unwatchable due to video/sound breakups, last night it was spot on for Soundstage.

I just moved to Lakewood and don't have line of sight to either downtown or LOM.

I would still appreciate if anyone can answer my questions about the antenna delimna just in case comcast decides to start encrypt these.

Gakon,

Could you please run a topo profile for me so I can see if there is even a remote chance of having LOS when the new tower is complete. I drove around last night trying to guage just how far down in the valley I am in relation to LOM and spotted another potential problem. Green Mountain. That giant lump of rock in concert with Bear Valley may have me in the worst dead spot on the entire front range.

My coordiantes are:
39.658756 N
105.083096 W

I am on the second floor and have an attic, so hopefully i can guestimate whether I can use somethig up there or if I would end up needing a 400' mast or something ridiculous like that. hopefullly not or I will have to give in and subscribe to comcast. Who knows, if we end up getting all those new HD channels it might actually be worth their prices. I would loves me some sci-fi in HD.

You guys are awesome, thanks for all the help.

I have seen that my reception of the stations broadcasting from RP change according to the weather. Anything atmospheric can have an effect on the signals. For me, the RP stations come in best when it is cooler out. During the summer, I can't get a lock on channel 7 during the daytime. But at night, the signal comes in just enough to not break up too much. During the winter time, I can get all of the RP signals quite well.


Here are a couple of graphs of KRMA's signal strength taken from southern Longmont.

This graph is of the past week, as of 9:30pm 1/22/08. The numbers below the graph are the hour of the day. Sorry that I don't have the actual days indicated. As you can see, there are a few times that KRMA appears to have gone off the air. Once it came back with a slightly better signal, and the other time appears like it may have been maintenance or something.
http://www.bearhunter.com/krma-week.jpg

This graph is of the past month, so that you can get a historical idea of the signal strength that I see. Again, the numbers below the graph is the hour, but the entire graph is for 30 days, so that can give you an idea of where the days are divided.
http://www.bearhunter.com/krma-month.jpg

So, as you can see, the signal that I am receiving has been fairly constant. While I don't watch KRMA very much, every time that I've looked at it, my signal has been fine. Again, this is all in southern Longmont.

I am at a loss what my problem is with KRMA-DT. My reception does seem to change with temperature. Yesterday was warmer, and it was fine whenever I looked (even 2AM this morning). It is so strange, since I do not experience any problems with any other stations when it gets cold. If anything, KBDI-DT has been significantlly better since it got cold.
Since your data is so different from my experience, I just want to be sure of one thing. Your post only mentions KRMA. I just want to be absolutely sure that your graphs are for KRMA-DT (6-1).

Gakon,

Could you please run a topo profile for me so I can see if there is even a remote chance of having LOS when the new tower is complete.

I actually tried this the other day when you first posted. I guessed wrong about your actual location - this one (using the coordinates you provided) is only a little worse. The profile shows your location at the 0 point and Lookout at the right side. The yellow point on Lookout is a little lower than where I think the tower will actually be and it doesn't include the height of the tower. Assuming the top of the tower is going to be at about 7600', it does look like you will have some line of sight.

What's your reception like on the analog channels from Lookout?

I am at a loss what my problem is with KRMA-DT. My reception does seem to change with temperature. Yesterday was warmer, and it was fine whenever I looked (even 2AM this morning). It is so strange, since I do not experience any problems with any other stations when it gets cold. If anything, KBDI-DT has been significantlly better since it got cold.
Since your data is so different from my experience, I just want to be sure of one thing. Your post only mentions KRMA. I just want to be absolutely sure that your graphs are for KRMA-DT (6-1).

Hello kenavs, yes, those graphs are both for KRMA-DT, channel 18 (6-1 and 6-2).

There is always the possibility of me getting a bounced signal from somewhere (although it would be a very steady bounced signal), or it could just be my mixture of dual antennas and amps.

My setup is with a CM4228 about 60 feet above ground level, pointed at RP, and a second large UHF/VHF Radio Shack antenna (about the biggest one they sell), which is about 40 feet above ground level, pointed roughly at LM. Each antenna has a mast-mounted amp, and they are then combined into a single cable that is then split into all of my various TVs and computers (which is probably not the best thing to do, but it works for me).

Who knows, I might even be getting my signal through a rabbit hole up in the mountains! :D I've been getting a steady signal since they moved to the ice bridge. I've checked with both of my HDTVs, my MythTV, and two computers equipped with ATSC tuner cards, and they all get a good, solid picture.

The only other explanation that I have is that I am the miraculous Anti-Deb, and all of the wonderful digital signals gather around me and provide me with hours and hours of free entertainment!......Or not.

Hello kenavs, yes, those graphs are both for KRMA-DT, channel 18 (6-1 and 6-2).

Thanks for the follow-up. Actually, I was pretty certain that you had read my question close enough to realize that I was interested in the DT data. It was probably mostly wishfull thinking, that the problem had to be something fairly obvious at the transmitter end. I just wanted to be absolutely sure we were talking about the same thing before I start playing with my setup and possibly making things worse.

I still suspect that something is shifting at the transmitter end, but your data does suggest that I might be able to make adjustments at my end to overcome those shifts.

Where in the heck is the FOX coverage of the Daytona 24 hour race??? It was supposed to start at 11 am but all they've shown since then is animal shows and infomercials! WTF?

Where in the heck is the FOX coverage of the Daytona 24 hour race??? It was supposed to start at 11 am but all they've shown since then is animal shows and infomercials! WTF?

According to the "TV Listings" tab at the FOX 31 web site http://www.myfoxcolorado.com the race coverage is 1:30PM to 3:00PM.

According to the "TV Listings" tab at the FOX 31 web site http://www.myfoxcolorado.com the race coverage is 1:30PM to 3:00PM.

I don't understand that. The Rolex 24 site says Fox LIVE coverage begins 11 am. The TVguide site shows Fox LIVE coverage begins at 11 am. Why would the local Fox station not show it when it's supposed to?

And, naturally, it is NOT in HD. Twats.:rolleyes:

This is a little off topic - but coming to Denver is Disney Blu-Ray:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/26/disneys-magical-blu-ray-tour-coming-to-seven-more-north-america/

The KREX fire blog has a lot of interesting pictures and videos while the station is moving and rebuilding.

http://www.krex.tv/fireblog/

I actually tried this the other day when you first posted. I guessed wrong about your actual location - this one (using the coordinates you provided) is only a little worse. The profile shows your location at the 0 point and Lookout at the right side. The yellow point on Lookout is a little lower than where I think the tower will actually be and it doesn't include the height of the tower. Assuming the top of the tower is going to be at about 7600', it does look like you will have some line of sight.

What's your reception like on the analog channels from Lookout?

Gakon,
Thanks, I really appreciate your help, I guess i will have to just put up with SD until the new tower is complete. I couldn't find ABC or CBS in HD on the reassigned QAM channels.

As for analog channel reception from lookout, when I had the TURD, I got a patchy singal on 20 and 31, but that was about it other than some of the spanish stations that seem to come in quite strong. I think i will just try a better quality antenna in the attic once the new tower is up. Again, thanks for the help and input.

I live about as far into the hole as is tgets... Bear Valley. 285 and Sheridan a couple of blocks from the Creek!!. I have a small RS (VU 60 maybe) about 4 feet long combo UHF/VHF on 10 feet of mast on the peak of my 2 story house. I can get everything except 4.1 (intermittent) with it pointed at republic (well 6.x is weal or nonexistant since the moved from republic). I have another antenna with a rotor. It is the RS VU 210.. The thing is huge. Over 12 feet long... 25 or so elements on the UHF section. It is on 30 feet of mast on the peak of my roof (I put it up when trying to get ABC (7-1) when they were on their coat hanger antenna.) I have a 25 DB amp for it too... not used anymore. On it, although I hve to rotate it, I get all of the stations around just fine. 2-1, 4-1, 7-1, 9-1, 12-x, 20-1 all are recieved with it pointed downtown with 75% or better signal. As 31-1 and 6-1 and 12-x are off the side with it pointed downtown, they are a bit flaky , but much better (70% to 90% for 31-1) when I point it towards LOM or west of that.

I can't get even a sniff of a signal with anything inside. I even tried a RS 15 element corner reflector UHF Yagi on five feet of mast...on a tripod in my second story bedroom pointed at LOM, out of a window, with pre-amp...NADA !!

I would bet that a decent UHF antenna in your attic would do wonders for you. Best would be to put it outside and up in the air. But if you can't do that, a four bay bowtie or long yagi UHF in the attic may just do it. Of course, as has been said here so often, this is a game of inches sometimes. You may get something in the middle of yor attic, when you get nothing with the antenna at either end. Get something and give it a shot. Just try to make sure that you can return it if it does not work. The TURD should not disuade you from trying sometihng decent. It is really not representitive of what you might do with a "REAL" antenna!! Don't give up yet... if you go back and look at what some of us did to get the SOOOPER Bowl when it was on ABC from the coat hanger... you will understand that you have not even begun to fight ...yet...

:)

Phil

I was down in Golden on business today and saw the tower from the road below (Hwy 6). It sure looks like they are about at full height with that thing. I don't know for sure if they are done, but it is about the right size comparing it to the tower above it. There were some additional small structures near the top which looked like they 'might' be some of the transmitting antennas hanging on the side, but i was driving and didn't have time to stop to take a closer look. They could also be some sort of protective cage to keep workers safe for all I could see from below. Has anyone else been up there this week (Ernie?) to get the latest news on the progress?

I'm going up to the site on Thursday AM. I'll report back after. What's weird is, from the front side (Denver) it looks really tall like John said, but from the backside (I-70 in Genesee), it looks a lot shorter? Has to be some sort of optical illusion. I'll the real info from the gang Thurs.

It still looks relatively short from here in HR - I haven't seen much change in the past week. I thought the top of the new tower was going to end up about 200' lower than the KCNC tower (100' shorter, 100' lower down the mountain), so even when done it'll probably still look pretty short from the back, since you're probably not seeing the entire height. From Denver, you're kind of looking up at it, so that makes some illusion of height. Maybe.

Why hasn't c-a-r-e had anything to say since they lost??

Haven't you been paying attention?

They're very much active, and around half of the recent KUSA story on the new tower was devoted to giving sCARE's point of view.

Someone who can view the entire structure might try counting the color bands again. About a month ago, someone said each band is about 81 feet. I believe that analysis is correct.

--- CHAS

Last week I believe there were 8 bands complete, so one more color band (multiple structural segments) to go. I doubt they've done much in the past few days, given the winds we've had.

Someone took a couple of photos of the new tower going up on a local 4x4 forum. Scroll down about halfway. http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=115075

Nice find Couch!

Someone took a couple of photos of the new tower going up on a local 4x4 forum. Scroll down about halfway. http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=115075

Great find! Love the shots of the workers on the tower pieces. I don't know if there would be any amount of money to get me to try that.

Great find! Love the shots of the workers on the tower pieces. I don't know if there would be any amount of money to get me to try that.

I rode the elevator to the top of a 300' tower at Eglin Air Force Base (FL). It's a different world up there. The tower shakes and clatters from wind buffeting. The view out over the Gulf of Mexico is spectacular.

It was a one time interesting experience that I have no desire to repeat. It's funny how those who do tower work wouldn't trade their jobs for any but the most compelling circumstance.

--- CHAS

Hi Guys!

Just got back from the Tower Tour. What a site. It's an amazing building and tower. All class. It looks great and will be beautiful when it's all finished and landscaped. I met the head of construction who gave us the tour. Super nice guy, showed us the entire site. From the tower base to the tunnel to the building. The tunnel is really cool. About 300' long underground. The transmitters are located in the building and all their transmission lines run from the building down the tunnel to the tower base. I don't think there is another site like this anywhere. There's some shots of the front and back of the building. On the back there's a full wall where they will mount all the microwave dishes. These are for sending signals back and forth from the stations to the tower for live ENG news and programming feeds. Each stations will have a bunch.

The building is nearly finished. There is 2 floors for equipment with 2 stations on each floor. They said about 3 weeks before they can start loading in technical equipment. The tower has about 30' more to go. Then they install a 60' antenna on top of that. So, it's pretty close. There's a shot of the 'crane' at the top. They move it up as they go. It's used to lift each new section up. It was too windy this morning, so no one was on the tower. Maybe this afternoon, if the wind quiets down. They're also installing the transmission lines now, there's one line to the top for each antenna. The physical antennas are not up yet. I'm not 100 sure, but since there are both UHF and VHF, some will be on the face and others at the top. (Don't hold me to that) But, everything is on schedule. They didn't give a start-up date yet. They did say they will stay on both Analog and Digital until the change-out on their current channel assignments.

Here's some links to pics for ya'll!

Tower Top.jpg (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/TowerTop.jpg)
Tower2.jpg (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/Tower2.jpg)
Tower Base 2.jpg (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/TowerBase2.jpg)
Tower Base.jpg (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/TowerBase.jpg)
Tunnel (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/Tunnel.jpg)
Tower Crane (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/Crane.jpg)
Outside.jpg (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/Outside.jpg)
Microwave Dishes (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/MicrowaveDishes.jpg)
Inside (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/Inside.jpg)

Verry Cool, Ernie! Thanks! :)

Ernie,
Very Impressive! Since I'm not from around the Golden area, what are the 2 highways shown in the TowerBase_2 pic? One looks like an interstate type, and then a 2 lane a bit closer.

Thanks,
....jc

That's I-70 and C470. The road in front of the hogback is Heritage Road

Thanks for the report Ernie! Those pictures are beautiful!

Did you find out when the picnic is? :)

No picnic scheduled yet... BooBoo.

I especially like the view down the tunnel.

Do you think there can be a public tour when the facility is finished?

--- CHAS

Thanks Ernie. Have you heard anything from them about how long it will take to remove the old towers after Feb 2009?

I wouldn't count on on public tour. Too many 'evil' people out there.
No word on how long to take the other towers down. From the speed they put this tower up, I'd say the tallest KCNC tower would take about 2 months.

I forgot to add that Deb used to drive by almost every day when they started construction. But, kept getting frustrated because they put up a powered gate with guards that block the entrance. You can't see anything from the gate. So, now they never see her anymore - haha!

Thanks Ernie for the post and the pictures. I think that is one of the 'sweetest' posts in the entire Denver thread so far. About the only thing that will be better is when we finally get pictures and posts about a fully operational tower and site.

Sorry to hear that Deb hasn't been able to get a birds eye view of the construction. Maybe she would like to ride the crane to the top of the tower to get a good overview of the entire project. We could even leave her up there to monitor construction on a 'full time basis'.
:D

KTTV LA has a tunnel between their two buildings on Mt Wilson.

Nice pictures Ernie, thanks for sharing them!

When do people work in the building? Business hours? 24 hours? Just when installing/tweaking equipment?

Thanks Ernie for the post and the pictures. I think that is one of the 'sweetest' posts in the entire Denver thread so far. About the only thing that will be better is when we finally get pictures and posts about a fully operational tower and site.

Amen! Even better will be the HD pictures on my TV... ;)

When do people work in the building? Business hours? 24 hours? Just when installing/tweaking equipment?I think they are just day workers now. Most of the work inside left is electrical and cosmetic. Just about all the cooling, plumbing is finished. Then later in the spring, when all the trucks are out, they will finish the landscaping. They said the City has been great. No hassles there at all!

There's no technical equipment in the building yet, that's about 3 weeks away. Not sure how long that will take.

As has been said before - Thanks Ernie for sharing the pictures!

Do you happen to know anything about the upside-down box in the lower left corner of the "Inside" picture?

I'm in awe.....

For some reason I had pictured it looking like the cell phone tower between Denver and Colorado Springs.

As has been said before - Thanks Ernie for sharing the pictures!

Do you happen to know anything about the upside-down box in the lower left corner of the "Inside" picture?I did notice that... now that's funny! It must be a 'flange' (Inside joke)

Thanks Ernie,

Great pictures (especially the lighting in the tunnel).

I think they are just day workers now. Most of the work inside left is electrical and cosmetic. Just about all the cooling, plumbing is finished. Then later in the spring, when all the trucks are out, they will finish the landscaping. They said the City has been great. No hassles there at all!

There's no technical equipment in the building yet, that's about 3 weeks away. Not sure how long that will take.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant after the building is complete and transmissions begin, do people still work in the building on a regular basis?

Now that I have finally installed the mighty D* H21-100, I get all the newer hd-lite HD channels. The local denver stations are definitely softer from the satellite than from the OTA signals. I'm using my old Sony HD-200 for an OTA tuner until the AM-21 is available.

Would you all check out ch 359, the FOX HD business channel? The upper-right-hand corner fox logo is cut off (I can't even read it.....does it say FOX HD WING?), as though my geometry is way off, as in a bad case of overscan.
No other stations are noticeably cut off, that I can tell. The ch 355 CNBC HD upper row of numbers are jammed right up to the screen's border, but not cut off.

Anybody else have this problem?

It says FOX HD WING. No idea what it means but it looks normal to me.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant after the building is complete and transmissions begin, do people still work in the building on a regular basis?Sorry, I misunderstood your question. It must have been due to all that radiation I received yesterday from being on the mountain. ;)

Not sure. Many of these facilities are un-manned. But, since this has 4 stations, they might have someone there to watch over the place. Remember, KCNC does have an engineer that lives in a house on the property.

There's no technical equipment in the building yet, that's about 3 weeks away. Not sure how long that will take.

Well, let me help you. 1 week is 7 days, so 3X7=21 days. ;)
Hey, I'm here all week. Please tip your waitress! :D

Seriously, thanks for the pics. That's great! We'll call you Fybush of the Rockies!:

http://www.fybush.com

And I hope the weather holds so that this can be done in weeks, not months. Go get 'em, Denver!

Thanks for the pictures Ernie

Great pics Ernie....:)

Thanks guys! Just doin' my DenverDTV duty! The LCG folks really appreciate what everyone here has done.

Ditto on the pics Ernie.

Can't hardly wait now.

I think they'll be some new pics soon on the LCG website. They were taking some while I was there.

I just got a HD antenna recently, and all I have to say is that HD OTA in the Denver area is either really awful, or my HD antenna is awful.

I just got a HD antenna recently, and all I have to say is that HD OTA in the Denver area is either really awful, or my HD antenna is awful.I don't have the energy.... anyone want to take this one. :)

Hmm, I'm guessing it's a flange issue...

I just got a HD antenna recently, and all I have to say is that HD OTA in the Denver area is either really awful, or my HD antenna is awful.
I don't have the energy.... anyone want to take this one. :)

I'll try...

1. There's no such thing as an HD antenna. Digital OTA (HD or not) broadcasts use the same VHF and UHF frequency ranges as analog. I have a set of rabbit ears that works great for me (but read on).

2. HD OTA in Denver is awful. You could go back and read all 20,000+ posts in this and the previous thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=28456

The short story is that the tower issues (if you don't know what I'm talking about, you should at least read some of the beginning of this thread) delayed the availability of full power OTA digital TV in this area. Several stations (KUSA, KCNC, KMGH, and KTVD) are broadcasting at partial power from Republic Plaza. Two (KDVR and KWGN) are broadcasting at partial power from their towers on Lookout. KRMA is broadcasting supposedly at full power from Mt. Morrison, but I hear that OTA reception isn't that great. (If I got any of these wrong, someone let me know.) KDBI doesn't broadcast any HD, and they're on Squaw, so their signal is shadowed for a lot of people. So, depending on your location, you may not be getting enough signal.

3. Of course, your antenna might suck, too. ;)

If you need help, go back and read at least a few pages prior to this. You'll see the questions people ask and the help that's available. If you don't see something that can help you directly, let us know and we'll see if we can help you improve your reception.

Welcome to the forum.

What Gakon said...

A TV antenna for VHF/UHF is just that. The antenna dos not care if the sinal is analog or digital nor if it is SD or HD! The HD lable is a marketing gimmick!


BUT, you don't really say, are you getting a signal and don't think the picture quality is good, or do you not get any useable signal at all?

In either case, it has probably been covered here.

If you have specific questions maybe someone can help.

Phil


I just got a HD antenna recently, and all I have to say is that HD OTA in the Denver area is either really awful, or my HD antenna is awful.

I just got a HD antenna recently, and all I have to say is that HD OTA in the Denver area is either really awful, or my HD antenna is awful.

Let us know how you are trying to receive HD signals and where you are located and the people here can give you good advice. Channels 4,7,9,6 and 20 are temporarily broadcasting a low power signal from Republic Plaza downtown. They will move to the new tower when it is completed sometime in the next few months. Channels 2 and 31 are broadcasting from Lookout Mtn. now. Your UHF capable antenna would have to be pointed in the right direction to receive the signals. Also, depending on your location a roof mounted installation would be best to receive these low power signals (for now).
What are you using to receive the HD signals? A satellite co. set top box? Does your HDTV have an integrated HD tuner?

Not sure why - but my OTA signals have dropped to a point where my Sony SXRD will not pick up Channels 9 or 7 anymore. These channels use to be marginal for me with a attic antenna and no directional motor. Could be something wrong with my wiring. Since D* has gotten so much better with their broadcasts I seldom use OTA anymore except during the "Cutting edge" updates for my receiver.

Not sure why - but my OTA signals have dropped to a point where my Sony SXRD will not pick up Channels 9 or 7 anymore. These channels use to be marginal for me with a attic antenna and no directional motor. Could be something wrong with my wiring. Since D* has gotten so much better with their broadcasts I seldom use OTA anymore except during the "Cutting edge" updates for my receiver.

I am watching hockey on 9-1 as I type and have not seen any signal power fluctuation at my location.

Hmm, I'm guessing it's a flange issue...

Now that the flange has been received and installed, the folks over at CBS4 have no excuse for not going HD on their local news. :)

Seriously, congrats to LCG for their perserverance in getting a state of the art transmission facility. Looking forward to those analog towers coming down!

Don

I saw that KDVR-HD just had a short outage. DirecTV has a backup channel 701 showing the NYC feed if it happens again!

Nice shots, Ernie, and thanks!

We went to Heritage Square Opera House yesterday and the view from the parking lot was as good as I've seen! I took 3 pictures, I will post one...the perspective makes the towers look like they are leaning...at any rate, zoom in and you can make out the hard line (transmission line) that Ernie's picture shows, only from the other side. (Ooooo - it lost a bit when I resized it, so the transmission line is harder to make out.)

Tim

So how does it work for each station? Everybody gets a seperate transmission line or are they multiplexed to save cost....

They each get one from the building to the top.

www.hdtvcolorado.com seems to be updated with pics that look much like the ones Ernie posted.

They should have hired Ernie. I prefer his pictures.

--- CHAS

Ernie, my thanks also for the great pics you posted. They provided some emotional warmth on this cold, dreary day. I've been battling a nasty bug for the past few weeks, so today I'm trying to catch up on all my on-line stuff. Really an upper to see the progress made on the tower and support facilities.

I'm sure many of you have already seen this article a couple of weeks ago. For those that have not, one of the TV columnists for the Denver Post finally has an HDTV. She references a topic that has been discussed here a decent amount as of late, regarding local conversion to HD. It sounds like KMGH might be the next to convert to HD, as KCNC seems to be a little short on cash(?)

Either way, if you would have told me that 46 months(!) later, KUSA would STILL be the only local station to have an HD studio, I would have called you crazy. I guess I'll believe channel 7's news in HD when I see it...and not hold me breath for KCNC...or KWGN...or KDVR.

Here's the link to the article if you are interested:

http://www.denverpost.com/ostrow/ci_8070093

No word on how long to take the other towers down. From the speed they put this tower up, I'd say the tallest KCNC tower would take about 2 months.

It took the crew 13 days to bring down the 1000' tower in Madison. They started on 9/08/04 and the last piece was removed on 9/20/04. I can't imagine it taking four times longer to bring it down. The old saying that it comes apart faster than it goes together was spot on for the Madison site :)

The Fox engineers probably have some other examples.

The reason I think it will take longer is location. It's on the side of a hill which might slow things down a bit. And they want to be very respectful of JeffCo's sensitivity to damage in the area.

The reason I think it will take longer is location. It's on the side of a hill which might slow things down a bit. And they want to be very respectful of JeffCo's sensitivity to damage in the area.

Point taken. Something I forgot about that really helped take down the Madison tower was the fact that they used the new tower as their crane. Edge to edge, there was only a 10' gap between old and new. They won't have that advange with the existing towers.

So, my money is on 30 days for the tallest. Place your bets. :D

BTW, are the plans to also remove the existing support buildings and return to land to its natural "existence?"

They can't come down while they are still in use. The most likely means they will stand for about another year.

--- CHAS

We're talking about after Feb of '09.