St. Louis, MO - OTA [Text View] - Page 17

BudShark

06-18-07, 05:27 PM

Maybe they should get rid of all the candy, crap, and Shreck heads to make room for more movies.

Scott

Come on man... The Shrek doll and Hot Tamales is where they make their profit... :)

Its all good. If there was no format war I'd have an Xbox360/Hd-DVD or a PS3 or standalone Blu-Ray right now.

Instead, I have neither. I'm stuck with a 480P 5 disc Sony player from 4 years ago and my wife talking about a Wii. Sigh.... And the worst part is a year from now I'll still be in the same friggin boat because it'll still be just as confusing. If Universal hits a couple of #1s in a row - the HD-DVD crowd will be talking it up...

Chris

RaceTripper

06-18-07, 05:33 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

I'M PISSED. SCREW THEM ALL. i AM SELLING ALL MY HD-DVD'S AND MY XBOX ADD-ON. I'M DONE SUPPORTING THIS CRAP. I HATE SONY TOO. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

OK, Rant over.

ScottThis is the whole reason I said a long time ago I refuse to support either format as long as there are competing formats. It's a lose/lose situation for the consumer and always has been. And, on top of that, the forced firmware updates to enable new DRM keys is ridiculous. I hope the industry suffers terrible losses from all this stupidity.

Scott Tucker

06-18-07, 06:06 PM

This is the whole reason I said a long time ago I refuse to support either format as long as there are competing formats. It's a lose/lose situation for the consumer and always has been. And, on top of that, the forced firmware updates to enable new DRM keys is ridiculous. I hope the industry suffers terrible losses from all this stupidity.

Yeah, I said the same thing. The only reason I jumped in after my initial wait was because I could get the Xbox add-on for like $140 (long story). Anyway, I'm done with it. I'm off the Lowes to blow a grand on a Jenn Air grill. I'll pay for it with the $$$ I don't spend on HD-DVD's and Blockbuster rentals. :)

Scott

RaceTripper

06-18-07, 06:21 PM

Yeah, I said the same thing. The only reason I jumped in after my initial wait was because I could get the Xbox add-on for like $140 (long story). Anyway, I'm done with it. I'm off the Lowes to blow a grand on a Jenn Air grill. I'll pay for it with the $$$ I don't spend on HD-DVD's and Blockbuster rentals. :)

ScottI also had the chance to get a XBox HD-DVD addon for $140. I'll admit I was tempted, but cooler heads prevailed. :-) Not that I haven't made unwise purchase decisions in my life (I was the proud owner of a HiFi BetaMax).

I may never get HD video on physical media. By the time the BRD/HD-DVD fiasco is a bad memory, I'm hoping streaming HD video-on-demand will be viable.

kdg454

06-18-07, 06:38 PM

duihlein

06-18-07, 06:41 PM

I also had the chance to get a XBox HD-DVD addon for $140. I'll admit I was tempted, but cooler heads prevailed. :-) Not that I haven't made unwise purchase decisions in my life (I was the proud owner of a HiFi BetaMax).

I may never get HD video on physical media. By the time the BRD/HD-DVD fiasco is a bad memory, I'm hoping streaming HD video-on-demand will be viable.

I'm supporting both. I got a really cheap A1 and a 20GB PS3. I only own 5 HD Movies (2 POTC, Superman Return King Kong and Taladega Nights), the rest I get via NetFlix. I actually use the A1 more as a DVD-Audio than I have as a HD-DVD lately (Pink Floyd DSOTM and Beatles LOVE)

My last 10 rentals have been Blu. Hopefully by Xmas this will all be resolved and I can look forward to a 3rd gen player that plays any 5cm disc.

As for streaming/downloading... I'm not a big fan. If I want to watch a movie, I don't want to have to plan in advance or be concerned about external connections. I also don't want to be concerned about a HDD crash wiping out my movie collection. I want to drop a disc in a player. When it's done I want to put it back on the shelf.

For now I'll continue to enjoy both formats while saving up for a 1080P DLP projector. :)
Dave

mgr_stl

06-18-07, 07:33 PM

As a PS3 owner, this news from Blockbuster is definitely good. I've been concerned with the PS3's slow sales and lack of quality games, but perhaps this battle won by Blu-Ray will drive people to buy PS3s as their reasonably cheap players.

On another note, I got my order summary from Dish Network (I promise that I will soon begin to use the trendy E*... give this noob time ;)). On the summary, it mentioned that I'd be getting the "D1000+ kit," "Leased VIP622 System," and and "Dish 500." May I ask what the "Dish 500" is?

Scott Tucker

06-18-07, 08:04 PM

Good choice...Jenn Air. I read somewhere, propane is here to stay. :D

Dude, I do love your comedic sense of humor. You made me laugh pretty hard. Of course, I'll now have to join a grilling forum to discuss the inevitable Propane vs. Natural gas format war. :) Got the grill tonight. One problem, it is stuck in the back of my truck. Anyone want to come help me get it out? :confused:

Scott

chuckparr

06-18-07, 09:09 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

I'M PISSED. SCREW THEM ALL. i AM SELLING ALL MY HD-DVD'S AND MY XBOX ADD-ON. I'M DONE SUPPORTING THIS CRAP. I HATE SONY TOO. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

OK, Rant over.

Scott

High school=8 track tapes all the rage, buy hundreds of latest hits on 8-track
College= 8 track tanks, buy hundreds of cassette tapes
Early adulthood=cassettes are so yesterday, buy hundreds of CD's
"middle" adulthood= CD's? get real-store thousands of songs on an iPOD the size of a few CD's
"When I'm 64"??? another format will probably force another change, if I can still hear to enjoy the music.

And because we must have the latest format, we keep buying!

WinstonSmith

06-18-07, 09:21 PM

BudShark

06-18-07, 10:12 PM

Dude, I do love your comedic sense of humor. You made me laugh pretty hard. Of course, I'll now have to join a grilling forum to discuss the inevitable Propane vs. Natural gas format war. :) Got the grill tonight. One problem, it is stuck in the back of my truck. Anyone want to come help me get it out? :confused:

Scott

Whatever.. you propane vs. natural gas people are going to just kill each other with your competing gas and incompatible grills. And in the end - we'll all still be using Charcoal. Its not like most people can tell the difference anyways...

BudShark

06-18-07, 10:14 PM

I'm anxious to hear Joe on this HD-DVD thing. He's really invested into HD-DVD, but not in the way Toshiba would probably like =]

I just can't get over how it seemed like HD-DVD had won about six months ago and now its totally reversed.

Just wait for tomorrow... Wal-Mart will announce a $99 HD-DVD player. Fox and Disney will jump ship to support both formats and Sony will still stick with a $499 price for its player...

That scenario is just as likely at this point as Blu-Ray winning. However, I would say that unless HD-DVD does something about all the hit movies being on Blu-Ray this fall - it will be a hard sell for them.

Chris

kdg454

06-18-07, 10:52 PM

Got the grill tonight. One problem, it is stuck in the back of my truck. Anyone want to come help me get it out? :confused:

Scott
Someone HERE (http://www.sharky.com/forum/index.php)should be able to help you get it out of the truck. :)

StLouG

06-18-07, 11:54 PM

Just wait for tomorrow... Wal-Mart will announce a $99 HD-DVD player. Fox and Disney will jump ship to support both formats and Sony will still stick with a $499 price for its player...

That scenario is just as likely at this point as Blu-Ray winning. However, I would say that unless HD-DVD does something about all the hit movies being on Blu-Ray this fall - it will be a hard sell for them.

Chris

It is odd that you talked about Wal-Mart. Two months ago I was trying to decide between the two formats. I did a goggle search and one of the articles stated that " at Christmas time Wal-Mart would be selling HD DVD players" at a price that would make them available for everyone. They compared it to the VHS tape being much cheaper than the Beta Max. I forgot where I read that. I know I read it because I told my wife we would get a new HD player from Wal-Mart for Christmas.

WinstonSmith

06-19-07, 12:05 AM

Did you get one?

DroptheRemote

06-19-07, 12:14 AM

Very good article here on the ultimate fecklessness of DRM:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588-6189011.html?tag=nl.e539

StLouG

06-19-07, 12:54 AM

Did you get one?

That article was talking about this coming Christmas.

See this link: http://www.gamesdog.co.uk/news/news.phtml/6495/7519/HD-DVD-Blu-ray-WalMart-ps3-xbox360.phtml

or this link:http://gadgets.fosfor.se/wal-mart-to-launch-200-hd-dvd-player/

Note that the above article stated that WalMart "would not have any Blue Ray Disc's in their aisles"

Joseph Clark

06-19-07, 03:12 AM

I'm anxious to hear Joe on this HD-DVD thing. He's really invested into HD-DVD, but not in the way Toshiba would probably like =]

I just can't get over how it seemed like HD-DVD had won about six months ago and now its totally reversed.

The "war" is playing out pretty much the way everyone thought it would - rival formats causing great confusion, while most people stay away until they see a clear winner. The main players are posturing - declaring victory and thumping their chests. Nobody's won yet and I would love to see them both get their greedy comeuppance and have a new player come in and grab the brass ring away from them.

Although I like what Toshiba has done and how they've done it much more than Sony, I just want one standard HD format that will give me quality product at reasonable prices. One thing we all have going for us is that the parties involved have to realize, eventually, that to entice people to buy HD, they're going to have to clear the air of the confusion they've created. DVD sales were down (players and titles) when the HD war started, and the studios need HD to reinvigorate the marketplace. Until the format war goes away, that isn't going to happen.

My homemade HD DVD discs are a small part of my collection of DVD's and HD movies captured from satellite. Since the studios didn't see fit to release many titles I wanted, I have only a handful of commercial HD DVD's. No great loss there. I just want this stupid waste of time to be over. I'm not getting any younger.

Joseph Clark

06-19-07, 04:34 AM

duihlein

06-19-07, 06:44 AM

For those of you experienced with servers, is there a resource I can access that provides a good basic primer on how servers work? I'm interested in the 2 TB limit and RAID 5 especially. I think RAID 5 may provide some peace of mind that I've been looking for. My ignorance of this subject knows no bounds, although I've been doing a little research.

Joe,
This might help:
http://www.adaptec.com/pdfs/3759_2TB_WP.pdf

I also recently saw this:

http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?rss&newsid=9009

I think everyone will agree if you're going RAID, go hardware RAID. New raid options include RAID 6 (ADG) you can lose 2 drives without losing data (keep in mind you lose 2 drives worth of storage when you do this. Also RAID 0+1 is becomming popular for systems that need higher performance, but also want some redundancy.

RAID0 - Disk Striping - 2x 500GB = 1 TB. If you lose a drive you lose it all.
RAID1 - Disk Mirroring - 2x500GB = 500GB. You can lose 1 drive
RAID5 - Striping with parity - 3x500GB - 1 TB. You can lose a single drive
(think (n-1)*HDD size=LUN size)
RAID6 - Advanced Data Guard - 4x500GB = 1 TB you can lose 2 drives
(think (n-2)*HDD size=LUN size)
RAID 0+1 - Disk Mirroring/Striping- 4*500GB = 1TB, but better read/write perfomance

Keep in mind with these RAID options, all drives should be the same size. If you have 4 100GB drives and add a 200GB drive, you can only use 100GB of it in the RAID.

I have been researching Windows new Home Server. While it sounds very interesting, I'm still not convinced it's how I want to go. It does not use RAID (although you should be able to use hardware RAID with it)

I combines all HDD luns into one volume (but no RAID) When you create your shares, you decide if the share will be redundant. If it is, the data is stored twice, once on seperate drives within the server.

hope this helps a little. let me know if you have more questions, I'll try to answer as best I can.

Dave

tcfila

06-19-07, 10:34 AM

BudShark

06-19-07, 11:03 AM

Tim -

Logic would say no. The receiver won't add color depth or quality to the component signal.

However, depending on what TV you have it could improve/degrade the quality. The reason being if you have an analog set (CRT) you'd be going analog (component), digital (receiver), analog (TV). This could marginally degrade the picture.

On the flip side, if you have a digital set (DLP, LCP, Plasma) there is the slight chance the Denon Analog/Digital convertor is better than the TV. In that case you might see a slight improvement in picture as the Denon converted from analog to digital and the TV took the HDMI digital signal. Its also possible the Denon is worse than the TVs convertor and the picture would be marginally worse.

So - depending on the TV it would be worth some experimentation. However, the perceivable quality difference will probably be slim to none regardless of your choice between staying component or converting to HDMI in the Denon.

Chris

Robert Simandl

06-19-07, 11:15 AM

Random musings.....

Interesting article at maximumpc.com... it involves a Soyo motherboard that was supposed to be free after the mail-in rebate... I was one of the guys who bought that mobo and got fleeced on it (though I got mine from tigerdirect, not newegg as in the screenshot). This was also the mobo that fried on me a couple of weeks ago and is now in a landfill somewhere. Totally horrible experience from day one. I'm so happy to be running an Asus board with an X2 dual core in that machine now.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/warning_mail_in_rebate_may_take_12_150_weeks

Wonder if my rebate check may actually show up now? Not holding my breath....

If KTVI is sold to new owners, that'll mean channel 88 on our HD *D receivers will probably go away. :( After all, the blanket waiver St. Louis has for channel 88 is because KTVI is a Fox O&O.

As for Charter (those of you sensitive to Charter rants please skip to the next message).....

A week ago today, I got home from work and every web site I tried to visit was getting an error message "server could not be found." Turns out my entire internet connection was dead as a doornail. I picked up the phone to call Charter and got no dialtone. Phone was dead, too. Even the burglar alarm console was showing a "no phone available" trouble LED.

Since I don't own a cell phone, I called Charter from work Wednesday. The guy told me the techs don't work nights, which meant I'd have to take time off from work or wait til Monday. I told him I'll take off a couple of hours early Thursday and he scheduled an appointment between 5 and 7PM. 5PM, 6PM, 7PM, and 8PM went by with no one from Charter showing up.

At 8:30 I called to ask what was going on (a friend had since loaned me his spare cell phone). The gal on the other end said, "didn't the guy who scheduled your appointment tell you appointments after 3PM aren't guaranteed?"

I replied, "Um, no. I would have thought my TELLING HIM I would take off work two hours early would have been an opportunity for him to tell me that!"

Since I didn't want to take off work for a non-guaranteed appointment again, and since I CAN'T take off work in the mornings, she scheduled another appointment for me on Sunday morning (yes, their phone techs work Sundays). She also deducted $20 from my next bill for my trouble, though I'll be watching the next bill closely for that.

Sunday morning, the tech knocked on my door and said he'd already fixed the issue before he even knocked. Seems Charter was supposed to disconnect my next door neighbor Tuesday but screwed up and disconnected ME instead! And because of their multiple screwups, I had no internet AND no phone for nearly a week!

Actually having no phone was kind of nice, except it meant I couldn't even get dialup for my internet.

First thing I did after the tech left was look up phone and DSL from CenturyTel, AT&T, and Yahoo. Unfortunately, none of them offer DSL in my neighborhood so I'm apparently gonna be stuck with Charter for a while longer.

Oh, forgot to mention, during one of my calls, the operator noticed I didn't have their TV service and offered to sign me up. I replied, "if I had your TV service, it would be dead too right now, wouldn't it?"

Didn't get much of an answer on that one.

DroptheRemote

06-19-07, 11:36 AM

Robert, there was no next message to read (until now). As a result, I had no choice but to read your Charter rant.

Now I'm scarred for life... ;)

DroptheRemote

06-19-07, 12:22 PM

I currently have a Denon 1705 receiver that has been acting a little strange and am using it as an excuse to get a new one. I was thinking of the Denon 1907, but may bump up to the 2307 as it does HDMI. I currently have a MOXI and cannot utilize HDMI switching as of yet. My question is, other than number of cables, will it improve picture quality any with going component to the receiver and then HDMI to the TV?

Thanks,
TimFWIW, I generally think HDMI or component switching is of very marginal benefit, particularly considering the picture quality implications. When you do this, you gain the convenience and cost savings of one cable running from the sources (via the receiver) to your display, but you may be sacrificing picture quality as a result of all sources coming into the same input and having the same user settings applied by the display.

Of course, this can be managed, to some degree, by using different profiles (standard, cinema, custom) to store different contrast/brightness/color/etc levels for each source, but this means you need to manually change the profile setting each time you switch sources. For someone with anal tendencies, that might work out just fine, but for anyone more casual, it probably means that picture quality is going to suffer from accidentally having incorrect settings applied to your sources at any moment in time.

How much is the quality hit? Hard to say definitively, as it generally comes down to the variation among sources, with cable/satellite receivers being generally pretty standard and DVD players not being very standard at all. And the scope for things going wrong is much greater when you are switching among standard- and HD sources (though that will become a lesser issue over time).

On a front projector, running a single cable is more of a necessity, and this problem is typically a bit more easily managed by the projector having discrete IR codes for each profile or an RS-232 interface for changing profiles automatically in sync with source switching. Or, in some cases, an external video processor is used to properly apply the correct settings of each source, independent of the projector user settings.

On the other hand, for anyone who isn't especially concerned about picture quality, you can disregard all of the above.

Joseph Clark

06-19-07, 01:14 PM

duihlein

06-19-07, 02:48 PM

Thanks, Dave. The links were helpful and answered several questions I had. I've been using RAID for some time, so I'm pretty comfortable with RAID 0,1, but RAID 5 is new to me. It's like a little technology miracle - having "backup" without having to use half of your hard drive space to get it. Bob Simandl got me thinking about it (thanks, Bob) and I'm in research mode now. I'm looking at the 3ware hardware RAID 5 controllers (PCIe/SATA). Anyone have any other brands I could look at, or ones to steer clear of? Any help would be appreciated.

Joe,
I haven't looked at the current crop of SATA RAID controllers. I would look for one that has as many connections as you can afford. The key to remember about RAID 5. You still lose 1 drive to parity, so the more drives in your RAID set the better:

3x 500GB drives = 1 TB
4x 500GB drives = 1.5TB
5x 500GB drives = 2TB

get the picture. Additional items that are nice to know:

Is there cache? The more the better.
Can the RAID volume grow as you add drives without losing existing data?

Dave

skippy_rq

06-19-07, 03:23 PM

MoInSTL

06-19-07, 03:30 PM

Anyone have any other brands I could look at, or ones to steer clear of? Any help would be appreciated.

Promise and Adaptec have been around for a very longtime. I have an old SCSI hard drive and Adaptec SCSI card. They have been in a drawer for years but it still works. Phone support for Adaptec was always good. Their online help back then was a little hard to navigate. I've never had a Promise card but a lot of folks used them and they had regular firmware updates.

I have no idea where Promise and Adaptec stand now, but there should be a ton of info. out there since they have been around so long. The SATA cards are pricey so it's good you are doing your research. They each have their own feature set as well.

One last tip IMO is to buy all of your hard drives at one time. It makes it easier if they all have been manufactured within a couple of months of each other and have the same firmware. When I bought my Raptors I did that. It eeks out a fraction more speed but you'd be dealing with one vendor if you had a problem and they tend to play nice together if they are the same.

Edit: I agree with Dave, get drives with a lot of cache. StorageReview.com has also been around forever and they have very good forums. Chances are someone has already posted asking about a particular drive. Heat and noise can become an issue too and all of that is covered along with reliability, performance and price. A very good site. I just looked and there are several combination RAID card and drive posts.

Dan in St. Louis

06-19-07, 05:23 PM

Random musings.....
I have to say that my bad experience at the hands of Charter was not even as a customer.

On the poles behind my house, the Charter hardline used to run below the phone lines. They decided that it should be above them.

So they raised the hardline (parallel to the alley), and any telephone subscriber loops that used to be above it were now below it -- but looped up over the top! (Like if you raised a baseball bat up under a clothesline at right angles.)

Result: It tugged so hard on my phone line that a splice shorted. The phone company, I'm happy to say, doesn't take a week to fix things.

Joseph Clark

06-19-07, 05:49 PM

Joe,
I haven't looked at the current crop of SATA RAID controllers. I would look for one that has as many connections as you can afford. The key to remember about RAID 5. You still lose 1 drive to parity, so the more drives in your RAID set the better:

3x 500GB drives = 1 TB
4x 500GB drives = 1.5TB
5x 500GB drives = 2TB

get the picture. Additional items that are nice to know:

Is there cache? The more the better.
Can the RAID volume grow as you add drives without losing existing data?

Dave

Thanks, everyone, for the info. The card I'm looking at right now has 24 ports. Don't know if it requires a special mobo or not. I've owned Promise and Adaptec RAID 0 controllers, but I've never owned 3ware. It claims fast performance with multiple drives in RAID 5, so I'll see what the forums have to say about that issue. Thought I'd start with 16 500 GB drives and add from there. 500 GB drives are at the sweet spot right now, at just over $100 per drive. I think I can add new drives without having to rebuild the array each time with these 3ware controllers, although it looks like the process takes a day or two to complete, with a concurrent loss of speed during that time.

John Kotches

06-19-07, 05:55 PM

Joe:

Look at the High Point Rocket Raid cards.

Have you considered Lime Technologies UnRaid as another option? I'm playing with that solution right now.

Cheers,

Joseph Clark

06-19-07, 06:01 PM

I just wanted to pass on my experience with my new High Def hard drive Camcorder from Sony HDR-SR1. So far I am hooked on it. The image quality is awesome and the surround 5.1 processing is sweet. I had just picked it up on June 5 since my 7yr old MiniDV one died and we were leaving for Disney World the next day. The first real fun I had was at Disney. I took video and photos all without having to worry about switching devices. The camcorder takes 4mp still images in camera mode and 2.3mp 16:9 pictures while in video mode. I took most of my pictures while in video mode. They all turned out great. Using HDMI out from the camcorder to the plasma TV, the photos are perfect and the video is 1080i. On June 8 we went to NASA KSC for the launch of Atlantis. To experience this in person is almost indescribable. The video I took was sharp and surround pickup of the noise was cool. Once the shuttle made the sonic boom, the experience could be felt in ones chest for the next minute. After the first minute of launch, the video got a little shaky since I was without a tripod and concentrating more on my enjoyment then the video.

Since arriving back home on June 15, I have started looking into a BluRay burner for the PC. I would love to maintain the HD quality without having to keep a PC hooked up to the TV. Overall, the camcorder is a great addition to any HDTV setup.

-Rich

Hey, Rich. Isn't life with an HD camcorder great? Problem is, you don't want to look at anything you may have shot pre-HD. I just wish I'd had my Sony HC1 a couple of years earlier, so I could have taken it with me on my trip to England. I wouldn't trade my little camcorder for any pro camcorder I've shot with in the past, even given the great lenses and professional features those rigs had.

Is the SR1 an MPEG2 (HDV) camcorder or one of the newer formats? I used to keep up, but I really don't anymore. If it's MPEG2, you can get it to HD DVD on regular DVD media, but that process doesn't work for Blu-ray yet. I edit my footage in Adobe Premiere Pro and import the footage into Ulead Movie Factory to create an HD DVD on regular DVD recordables (single or dual layer). You can get it to a Blu-ray recordable disc using the process, but it's a lot more expensive.

Joseph Clark

06-19-07, 06:06 PM

Joe:

Look at the High Point Rocket Raid cards.

Have you considered Lime Technologies UnRaid as another option? I'm playing with that solution right now.

Cheers,

I forgot to mention I have RocketRaid cards, too (for RAID 0), and they've worked well. BUT, I tried to move one the IDE RR cards to another computer and it wouldn't even boot. I may have lost data in the process, too. I've heard of UnRaid, but don't know anything about it. I think there's a thread on AVS about it, right? I may ask to pick your brain on that one, since you've probably already suffered some of the pain that often goes with such experience.

John Kotches

06-19-07, 06:14 PM

Joe:

It wasn't that bad and feel free to pick what little remains of my brain ;)

I've used my unemployment to go on an alcohol and drug binge that will make it very difficult for me to pass anyones tests ;) For all those reading this that are prospective employers searching my name on Google -- that was a joke :D

Catch up with me tomorrow evening or Thursday all day. I have an interview tomorrow and between that and other stuff I won't have much time to talk during the day.

Cheers,

tstolze

06-20-07, 12:59 AM

Random musings.....

First thing I did after the tech left was look up phone and DSL from CenturyTel, AT&T, and Yahoo. Unfortunately, none of them offer DSL in my neighborhood so I'm apparently gonna be stuck with Charter for a while longer.

.

Not sure how AT&T lookup for service works, but I know that if you have your phone with Charter, Centurytel will show your number as no service available. You have to call them and give them you address. St. Peters is covered by both AT&T and Centurytel, you just have to figure out which territory you are in...

DroptheRemote

06-20-07, 07:31 AM

Under the Radar: $10/Month AT&T DSL Plan

This is probably not so interesting from a speed standpoint for most of us here, but might be the sort of thing that would make sense for casual Internet users who are clinging to a dial-up plan.

From an Associated Press story:
__________________________________________________

Without any sort of fanfare, AT&T Inc. has started offering a broadband Internet service for $10 a month, half the price of its cheapest advertised plan.

The DSL, or digital subscriber line, plan introduced Saturday is part of the concessions made by AT&T to the Federal Communications Commission to get its $86 billion acquisition of BellSouth Corp. approved last December.

The $10 offer is available to customers in the 22-state AT&T service region, which includes former BellSouth areas, who have never had AT&T or BellSouth broadband, spokesman Michael Coe confirmed Monday. Local phone service and a one-year contract are required. The modem is free.

The plan was not mentioned in a Friday news release about AT&T's DSL plans, and is slightly hidden on the AT&T Web site. A page describing DSL options doesn't mention it, but clicking a link for "Term contract plans" reveals it. It's also presented to customers who go into the application process, Coe said.

The service provides download speeds of up to 768 kilobits per second and upload speeds of up to 128 kbps, matching AT&T's $19.95 plan.
__________________________________________________

John Kotches

06-20-07, 10:15 AM

Doug:

This might signal a drop in service prices from ATT overall. I know that the 6 Mb/sec downstream option was quoted to me @ $35/month (ok $34.95) if they could service my address.

Cheers,

skippy_rq

06-20-07, 11:14 AM

Is the SR1 an MPEG2 (HDV) camcorder or one of the newer formats? I used to keep up, but I really don't anymore. If it's MPEG2, you can get it to HD DVD on regular DVD media, but that process doesn't work for Blu-ray yet. I edit my footage in Adobe Premiere Pro and import the footage into Ulead Movie Factory to create an HD DVD on regular DVD recordables (single or dual layer). You can get it to a Blu-ray recordable disc using the process, but it's a lot more expensive.

It uses the AVCHD codec. I also picked up the wide angle lense for it and the 11hr battery. Those made real nice additions. I have also played with the recording quality. I have bounced back and forth between HD at 15m and 9m bitrate. I have found that 9m is just fine for what I am shooting 90% of the time. I recorded the shuttle launch at 15m. At 9m I can get about 7hrs. of recording. Sony included a nice little piece of software that will let me put the video into almost any format. MPEG2 is one of them.

MoInSTL

06-20-07, 12:43 PM

Doug:

This might signal a drop in service prices from ATT overall. I know that the 6 Mb/sec downstream option was quoted to me @ $35/month (ok $34.95) if they could service my address.

Cheers,

I don't think so. My last bill went from $17.99 to $29 for flakey DSL up to 3mb. The $29 price included a $5.95 discount. I say flakey because I am too far from the CO to get that kind of speed during summer months. :( The $17.95 price was good for a year. When I called yesterday I was told I could get up to 1.5 for $19.95. I called twice to verify the best price and that's it. So far today I have not had any synch issues. I was dropping every 2-3 minutes or whenever the phone was used. So while slower, I am not dropping. During cold weather I was able to run at 2.5. I have had numerous techs out and even the field supervisor. They installed a homerun, new wires to the pole, removed a bridge tap, put me on a different pair and changed out the modem, etc. I'm just too far away to support anything faster. I have a lot of static on my line and it just knocks me off. Repair noticed a slight short in the line and will not be here until tomorrow as I was told there are numerous tickets open in my area for shorts probably caused by moisture.

If Charter had better prices and accurate billing and was willing to compete a bit more I would switch back for the speed. I am not willing to deal with their monthly billing errors and jump to $49+taxes for 3mb service after the discount runs out.

Mr_Bester

06-20-07, 01:07 PM

When I re-upped for DSL a few months ago, they told me the price was forever, no more calling to get the deal. I don't have the 3Mb service though
dug

MoInSTL

06-20-07, 01:23 PM

When I re-upped for DSL a few months ago, they told me the price was forever, no more calling to get the deal. I don't have the 3Mb service though
dug

Right. IIRC from my conversation with ATT, there are no commitments involved now either.

MoInSTL

06-20-07, 01:28 PM

Guess who comes in dead last (http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=133019&page=1&type=table&zoomIdx=2#)?

kdg454

06-20-07, 01:37 PM

Doug:

This might signal a drop in service prices from ATT overall. I know that the 6 Mb/sec downstream option was quoted to me @ $35/month (ok $34.95) if they could service my address.

Cheers,
I don't either. I recall reading somewhere this special rate has something to do with what ATT had to "put on the table" during negotiating/licensing with the FCC.

kdg454

06-20-07, 01:41 PM

Guess who comes in dead last (http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=133019&page=1&type=table&zoomIdx=2#)?
Actually, I'm surprised. FWIW, I've had Pipeline since 2003, and its been rock solid. Even when Ameran goes down, Pipeline continues to run on USB.

MoInSTL

06-20-07, 02:08 PM

Actually, I'm surprised. FWIW, I've had Pipeline since 2003, and its been rock solid. Even when Ameran goes down, Pipeline continues to run on USB.

I never had connectivity issues with Charter. It too was solid. It was their constant billing mistakes that drove me bonkers.

bhornberger

06-20-07, 02:28 PM

I don't either. I recall reading somewhere this special rate has something to do with what ATT had to "put on the table" during negotiating/licensing with the FCC.

it was due to BellSouth merger.

The problem I see is that's it's really not 10.00 a month. You still have to have a POTs line service. They won't let you install DSL on a dry pair.

If they allowed that, I'd drop my land line and have Vonage or another flavor of VoIp...

skippy_rq

06-20-07, 02:38 PM

it was due to BellSouth merger.

The problem I see is that's it's really not 10.00 a month. You still have to have a POTs line service. They won't let you install DSL on a dry pair.

If they allowed that, I'd drop my land line and have Vonage or another flavor of VoIp...

You can do naked DSL. Just search for DSL by address then choose sign me up. It then takes you to pricing. The pricing is higher than if you had a phone.

RaceTripper

06-20-07, 02:45 PM

You can do naked DSL. Just search for DSL by address then choose sign me up. It then takes you to pricing. The pricing is higher than if you had a phone.Yeah, I thought un-bundling DSL from phone service was part of the merger agreement.

BudShark

06-20-07, 02:52 PM

shaka

06-20-07, 02:59 PM

The full article mentioned the 'un-bundled' deal and pricing had an October deadline I think - anyhow its on its way but not here yet. But it will still be "more" - I think it was about $7 more for unbundled in the deal I saw.

As far as service. Its just very random I guess. I live in a new subdivision so we have new everything. I have never had a problem with DSL or Charter. Both have been rock solid. As far as AT&T goes, DSL quality should be improving as they roll out U-verse. The fiber infrastructure, proximity to the VRADs, and necessary "quality of line" all improve DSL as a byproduct.

Chris

Speaking of U-Verse, this morning there were about 5 AT&T trucks in my alley way. After kindly asking them to move so I could get out of my driveway, I asked if this was related to "U-Verse" and the guy said "Yes". I didn't ask anymore outside of "Yeah, I plan on buyin' that once it's up!". I'm pleased to hear that it's on the way in the neighborhood I'm currently living. I live in South St. Louis (Loughborough Street near Gravois - think SouthHampton) just to give you guys the heads up.

I'm curious what the price will be for U-Verse. Can you say "bundle"?

Spencer

bhornberger

06-20-07, 03:55 PM

since we are talking about AT&T Today..

from Engadget...

It's taken some serious patience, but Homezone customers can finally look forward to coming home and enjoying a high-definition flavor of the service. While U-Verse made the move to HD last year, Homezone customers now have access to "more than 30 national HD channels" along with additional HD locals in each market. Additionally, it was noted that users could expect imagery "four times as detailed as standard definition signals," but regardless of whether you believe that or not, tuning into surround sound should be a treat in and of itself. Those looking to make the jump can reportedly add the AT&T / DISH HD package free of charge for the first year if you order all of the "qualifying extras," and afterwards it'll run you $20 per month.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-20-2007/0004611912&EDATE=

Scott Tucker

06-20-07, 05:28 PM

Guess who comes in dead last (http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=133019&page=1&type=table&zoomIdx=2#)?

Dare I guess Charter? :)

Scott

Scott Tucker

06-20-07, 05:31 PM

John Kotches

06-20-07, 06:13 PM

Scott:

To get 10 Mbit/second downstream reliably you would need to be very close to the CO or Remote Terminal. Very close means less than 1 mile.

Robert Simandl

06-20-07, 07:13 PM

Charter used to be rock solid for me, in both internet and phone, in the first five years I had it. But this last year has seen more problems than the previous five years combined. I'm not a bit surprised they're dead last on PC World's list.

StLBluesFan

06-20-07, 08:10 PM

When I re-upped for DSL a few months ago, they told me the price was forever, no more calling to get the deal. I don't have the 3Mb service though
dug
Simplified DSL pricing structure (long overdue) adopted a couple months ago . . .

http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=6431

StLBluesFan

06-20-07, 08:16 PM

it was due to BellSouth merger.

"Purchase" of BellSouth. More accurate, and sounds better to the "purchaser."

Same goes for SBC purchase of PacBell, SNET, AIT, AT&T, Cingular . . . :D

Dan (SBC ---> AT&T)

jaymerkramer

06-20-07, 10:09 PM

Since this has turned into the DSL forum thread, here's my .02 cents.

I just upgraded my Centurytel to 10 meg to get better connection to my Banks servers since I now work form home. As soon as I did, I kept getting cut off the servers. Yesterday they came out and did something to the line, and dropped my speed to 6 megs, and all is fine. Not sure why 10 megs is a problem, but the tech said 10 meg band was having issues. There, now I am happy to partake in the DSL thread.

Scott

Scott

Same thing happened to me with Centurytel and I know Tstolze is on these forums and had to drop to 6meg. They are having problems with their new ADSL2+ cards going in to standby mode and not wanting to wake up when a request is made to them. The downloads were kick ass at 10meg. though, but the 6meg. has been rock solid. I get a consistant 6meg. down any time day or night when testing. We have been told that when they get their software or firmware issues corrected that we will be bumped back up to 10meg. I can't complain about it to much, tech support has always been friendly and helpful, and it still beats the 3meg. that I switched from for the same price.

Scott Tucker

06-20-07, 11:32 PM

Scott

Same thing happened to me with Centurytel and I know Tstolze is on these forums and had to drop to 6meg. They are having problems with their new ADSL2+ cards going in to standby mode and not wanting to wake up when a request is made to them. The downloads were kick ass at 10meg. though, but the 6meg. has been rock solid. I get a consistant 6meg. down any time day or night when testing. We have been told that when they get their software or firmware issues corrected that we will be bumped back up to 10meg. I can't complain about it to much, tech support has always been friendly and helpful, and it still beats the 3meg. that I switched from for the same price.

Yeah, the tech said something about the new whatever it is needing to be restarted every day. Actually, I was happy with 3 meg service. I only upgraded to 10 because the bank I work for told me I really should. Today the I made it through the whole day with no glitches, so I'm happy.

Centurytel did screw up on my 3rd phone line however. I told them I only needed a BASE line with no added features. Well, the first bill showed up with a bunch of stuff like long distance, caller id, etc. My Wife called and got them to credit it off. Today, my 2nd bill since installing a 3rd line shows up with all the bells and whistles listed and charged for again. Longer story shorter, they said the phone number they gave me could not have just basic service, so now they are turning off my new # to give me a newer # that will work with a basic phone line and no features. I'm sure logging into the bank's servers tomorrow will be fun...

All in all Centurytel has been very good, but really not sure how they screwed this one up. If this is as bad as it gets, I'm lucky I guess.

Scott

kjohnson

06-21-07, 05:33 PM

Guess who comes in dead last (http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=133019&page=1&type=table&zoomIdx=2#)?

Earthlink DSL is middle of the pack. I lose about a mb over wireless. I'm rated at 3mb and with new modem (that I had to threaten to cancel the service to get), I seem to be around 2.5mb. Earthlink (via Covad) is decent.

What's the deal with Charter?

DroptheRemote

06-21-07, 07:54 PM

Cablevision Announces Plan to Add VOOM HD Channels

I love free-market competition -- and I hope that the whole "my picture quality is better than your picture quality," goes hand in hand with the race to see who can deliver the largest number of HD channels.

From today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
_______________________________________________________

Cablevision said it will add 15 new high-def channels from VOOM HD Networks, beginning June 26.

The additions will bring Cablevision's iO digital cable customers a total of 40 HD programming services - a number the cable company says is the most HD available anywhere in the nation, from any provider.

The company also announced that by the end of this year it will have the capability to
carry more than 500 channels of HD programming on its advanced fiber optic
network.
_______________________________________________________

chuckparr

06-21-07, 08:16 PM

BudShark

06-21-07, 08:55 PM

Long history here:

Cablevision was owned by the same family that started Voom. That family got thrown out of Cablevision (if memory serves) because of the whole Voom thing and others. Voom was sold to E*. Now it appears to have come full circle...

I think it was the Dolan family if memory serves (not in a googling mood tonight - maybe someone else is...)

Chris

Scott Tucker

06-22-07, 12:07 AM

I Googled Cablevision and see they are in the New York area. Is that the only part of the country?

I had cablevision in San Diego IIRC.

Scott

DroptheRemote

06-22-07, 07:43 AM

E* does not own VOOM. Voom is owned by Rainbow Media, which is part of Cablevision and includes other cable properties including AMC, Fuse and the Independent Film Channel.

Cablevision operates nationally, but the company is concentrated on the East Coast.

Cablevision was founded by Charles Dolan, and his son James has also been an executive at the company. Father and son feuded over VOOM due to the substantial drain it put on corporate resources while never totaling more than 40,000 subscribers. The son favored shuttering VOOM and the father insisted on keeping it running, at one point seeking to raise separate financing so that he could buy it and run it himself. All this drama split the board but eventually Dolan senior was forced to shut down VOOM as a distribution entity, spinning it instead into a programming source via Rainbow. Both father and son remain at the company.

DroptheRemote

06-22-07, 08:38 AM

This commentary from today's TV Predictions newsletter hits the right note, and it certainly squares with the local situation:

Cable TV & HD: Put Up or Shut Up! (http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannicabletext.htm)

BudShark

06-22-07, 09:15 AM

djearl81

06-22-07, 03:58 PM

I'm not sure if anyone around here is planning to buy an iphone, but if you are...I could use the company brownie points by sending people over. It hits the market next friday. Feel free to shoot me a PM. I'll be back to check my e-mail on Tuesday.

Same deal for purchasing DSL...and other AT&T related products. If you've got a problem, I can escalate that as well.

Here's a company e-mail about the release of the iPhone:
----
Next Friday is iDay – the launch of iPhone. AT&T and Apple have been working toward this day for almost two years. As the exclusive service provider for iPhone, we’re iReady and very proud to play a key role in one of the most highly anticipated consumer product launches ever…and we hope you feel the same way. Over the next week employees will receive daily iReady messages on our preparations and plans, so watch your mailboxes for more from iPhone. Go here (http://attiphonenews.centralcast.net/) to sign up to receive a short version on your cell phone. We all have a huge stake in the success of iPhone. Here are some things you’ll want to know to make you a great ambassador for this game-changing product.

Launch logistics:
The iPhone goes on sale at 6 p.m. (local time in each market) on Friday, June 29. It will be available only at AT&T-owned stores, Apple stores and online at apple.com. A list of the AT&T stores will be available online before launch.

Ordering, pricing, models:
We are not taking preorders from customers. The iPhone will be available for sale beginning June 29 strictly on a first come, first served basis. There will be two models at launch, a 4-GB model for $499 and an 8-GB model for $599. We will share details on rate plans later.

Customers first:
Attracting new customers drives growth, which benefits us all. We anticipate overwhelming demand for the iPhone, giving us a unique and powerful opportunity to attract customers from our competitors. We need to focus all our resources on meeting that demand, and for that reason, we will not offer employee discounts of any kind on the iPhone, nor will there be any concession on the rate plans used with this device. This applies to all employees at all levels. Employees who choose to buy the iPhone must purchase it at the consumer price and must use it on a regular, undiscounted, consumer rate plan.
----

Back to Djearl talkin...
These phones are sweet, but even the 'cheaper' $499 price tag is a little too steep for my blood. Plus, I'm guessing it'll be something like the Razor. They'll have 80 different versions to pick from in teh next few years. Anyway, if you're interested, please let me know. AT&T is the only place to get one.

DroptheRemote

06-22-07, 09:14 PM

Any other DirecTV subs getting the Tigers v Braves on channel 95?

In need of a diversion, I surfed away from FSNMW and was surprised to be receiving this. I'm assuming it's just a one-off entitlement error by DirecTV...

Dan in St. Louis

06-22-07, 09:23 PM

and other AT&T related products. If you've got a problem, I can escalate that as well.
Well, better cell phone coverage in zip 63357? (That's a joke, don't worry.)

RaceTripper

06-22-07, 09:42 PM

Well, better cell phone coverage in zip 63357? (That's a joke, don't worry.)I think maybe my NSA wiretap isn't working correctly. Should I have that issue escalated? :eek:

Kurt K

06-22-07, 10:01 PM

StLBluesFan

06-22-07, 10:51 PM

I think maybe my NSA wiretap isn't working correctly. Should I have that issue escalated? :eek:

No need. They're already working on it.

kdg454

06-23-07, 12:02 AM

Cards in HD, Sat, Sun & Mon

23 Saturday 12:10PM Phillies KSDK-DT
24 Sunday 1:15PM Phillies KSDK-DT
25 Monday 6:10PM @Mets ESPN2HD/FSNSD**
**DISH shows the ESPN2HD broadcast blacked-out :(

Full Schedule HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10174447#post10174447)

Dan in St. Louis

06-23-07, 10:47 AM

I think maybe my NSA wiretap isn't working correctly. Should I have that issue escalated? :eek:
Actually, I was answering djearl81, who made the offer. It was intended tongue-in-cheek, as shown by the appended parenthetical phrase; but better coverage around Hopewell, MO and Aspenhof, MO would sure be nice!

In any case, these are the folks to deal with your wiretap issue:
http://boingboing.net/2006/06/20/att_spyroom_in_st_lo.html

with more details here:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/21/att_nsa/index.html

MoInSTL

06-23-07, 11:02 AM

Just an FYI (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6454505.html?rssid=193).

aspec2

06-23-07, 02:18 PM

aspec2

06-23-07, 02:26 PM

Guess who comes in dead last (http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=133019&page=1&type=table&zoomIdx=2#)?

6463 responses to the survey. Why is AOL with seven "below average" scores better than Charter with six? I can't see anyone preferring dial up to broadband.

Just my observations.

Walt

kdg454

06-23-07, 07:54 PM

6463 responses to the survey. Why is AOL with seven "below average" scores better than Charter with six? I can't see anyone preferring dial up to broadband.

Just my observations.

Walt
Count it again, Walt :)
AOL - 6 below
C* - 7 below

Both have 2 average - wash
AOL has +1 above
C* has +1 below

kinda a comparison of the worst and worstest :D
I still use AOL (not as my ISP), because I have since '86, and am too lazy to do all the address change thing. AOL is the worst, imo. Their software is slow, redundant, and just overall annoying.
I've had no issues with Pipeline.

mgr_stl

06-24-07, 09:20 PM

uh, bump?

Robert Simandl

06-24-07, 11:18 PM

skippy_rq

06-24-07, 11:58 PM

As if I weren't p.o.'ed at Charter enough already, my download speeds have dropped like a rock since Friday afternoon....

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145044118.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

I'm paying for 3 meg service, for crying out loud!

Whether it's Friday night, Saturday morning, Sunday morning, or Sunday night, this is all I get. Anyone else noticing sloooooow download speeds with Charter this weekend?

I wish somebody could broadcast some decent first run HD programming to talk about, too!

Try a different location other than KY. I used to choose the closest and found that it reported 50% or less of my bandwidth. I also was able to use the speedtest to find that I had a failling wireless router. Hook directly into the cable modem and try a few different sites. Also, if you are checking over a wi-fi connection, your tests will vary greatly.

skippy_rq

06-25-07, 12:00 AM

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145054732.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145054945.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Here is an example of what I mean. These were done one after another.

Robert Simandl

06-25-07, 12:08 AM

No wireless here. I've got CAT6 cable running all over my basement ceiling. And my current speed (or lack thereof) is pretty consistent:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145055774.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145056230.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145056465.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145056696.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Scott Tucker

06-25-07, 12:25 AM

Bob, try Chicago. That usually yields the best times for me. This is wireless from my 6 meg service.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/145060409.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Scott

Joseph Clark

06-25-07, 12:29 AM

Robert Simandl

06-25-07, 07:03 AM

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145142614.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Looks like I'm calling Charter today. :mad:

DroptheRemote

06-25-07, 09:01 AM

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information about HDTV and over-the-air reception. Although those messages were moved to the new thread here that was started in January, that information is still easily overlooked as the new thread is growing rapidly, approaching 75 pages in a relatively short period.

So, in order to make this introductory information more accessible, I will be periodically reposting this advisory/reminder note. The idea is to make the general resource information available here more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713839&&#post9713839)

Resources for Receiving Digital/HD OTA Local Stations via an Antenna (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713842&&#post9713842)

Frequently Asked Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10464913&&#post10464913)

Why Isn't KMOV-DT (CBS) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9341270&&#post9341270)

St. Louis Charter-Only AVS Thread Also Available (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805958&goto=lastpost)

St. Louis Blues 2006-07 HD Broadcast Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

New! St. Louis Cardinals 2007 HD Broadcast Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10174447#post10174447)

2006 Survey Results: HDTV in St. Louis

Part 1: Profile of Survey Respondents (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713951&&#post9713951)

Part 2: Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713954&&#post9713954)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713956&&#post9713956)

Part 4: Customer Ratings for Charter, DirecTV & DISH HD Services (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713960&&#post9713960)

Part 5: Customer Ratings for Pay TV HD Channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713963&&#post9713963)

Part 6: Best Picture/Sound Ratings & HD Wish Lists (http://http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713965&&#post9713965)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

Scott Tucker

06-25-07, 09:21 AM

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145142614.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Looks like I'm calling Charter today. :mad:

May The Force be with you.

Scott

BudShark

06-25-07, 11:49 AM

All quiet on the HD front I guess.

Last couple weeks have been pretty much non-HD conversations. Makes you long for the good old days when Jim was trying to garage sale together some HD transmissions and we got to kick KSDK around 3-4 times a week for not flipping the switch!

Robert Simandl

06-25-07, 12:08 PM

Makes you long for the good old days when Jim was trying to garage sale together some HD transmissions and we got to kick KSDK around 3-4 times a week for not flipping the switch!

Hey Chris,

It's not like kSDk has actually gotten any better, it's just that nobody's watching because everything's a repeat now. :D I'm sure if one of us actually tuned in, we'd have plenty of new examples of non-switch-flipping. :D :D

Speaking of switch-flipping, the csr at Charter flipped a switch and my Pipeline speed is back to normal. Never really did figure out what the problem was, but I'll be relatively content til the next thing goes wrong (which at the rate they're going will probably be later this week). :D

MoInSTL

06-25-07, 01:48 PM

I agree with Bud (except his sig about the Padres). :)

KSDK 5-1 and 5-2 were both off the air for about 15 minutes early hours on Saturday morning. I don't recall what time. Perhaps they were doing maintenance?

BudShark

06-25-07, 02:11 PM

(Looking around the thread) Who's Bob? :D

Chris

MoInSTL

06-25-07, 02:29 PM

(Looking around the thread) Who's Bob? :D

Chris

I corrected it. Bob, Bud, whatever! :)

_token_

06-25-07, 03:59 PM

"Universal HD will be the exclusive all-day high-definition broadcaster of "Live Earth: The Concerts for a Climate in Crisis," an unprecedented global event on July 7, 2007. From the producers of "Live 8," this monumental music event will bring together more than 100 of today's hottest artists and two billion people to focus the world's attention on the global climate crisis and what can be done to reduce global warming. The networks of NBC Universal will broadcast seven legendary concerts from the seven continents, and Universal HD will broadcast the entire event. "
Link (http://www.collider.com/entertainment/tv/article.asp/aid/4526/tcid/1)

This could be worth watching ;)

Snyyder

06-25-07, 07:52 PM

Looks like I'm calling Charter today. :mad:

Robert, I had the exact same problem. So did my neighbor. Charter had no clue. They sent a tech out after doing a bunch of remote stuff to my modem. In the end, just powering on and off both of the cable modems restored the 10mbps speed.

DroptheRemote

06-25-07, 11:16 PM

Robert Simandl

06-25-07, 11:20 PM

Finally...something worthwhile comes out of all this "our world is melting and we are the cause" nonsense.

I'll probably be recording a lot of it, but only saving the actual musical numbers (editing out the political comments)...........

DroptheRemote

06-25-07, 11:24 PM

As far as kSDk goes, I'm pleased to say I have now attained the same level of indifference as the suits and engineers at St. Louis's High Definition TV Leader.

So from here on out, you may refer to me as Mr. Broadcast Professional. :cool:

But if you choose not to, I'm indifferent about that, too. ;)

Scott Tucker

06-26-07, 12:08 AM

Finally...something worthwhile comes out of all this "our world is melting and we are the cause" nonsense.

I just watched Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth right before reading your post. I hope you don't really feel it is all nonsense.

Scott

PWSHER

06-26-07, 07:42 AM

I just watched Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth right before reading your post. I hope you don't really feel it is all nonsense.

Scott

I watched it also, along with the "Faked Moon Landing". Both were quite convincing. ;) I am a research scientist but in no way an expert in this field.

Some of Al's data is flawed or missleading which even he has recently conceded. For example, If you notice he didn't "overlay" the CO2 levels and Climate Temperture because if he would have you would have seen a 600 year lag between the increase in CO2 and Temperature rise. I do believe that the temperature worldwide is rising but it also rising on Mars. There is also scientific evidence that the warming is directly correlated (not 600 years...but directly) to activity of the sun.

I lived through the "global cooling scare of the 70's" and I believe this is way more politics than it is science.

Take a look at british documentary if you would like to see the other side of the story and understand the connection between this and nuclear power.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/programme.html

A good source of what is and isn't science:

http://www.junkscience.com/

I'm not trying to start a debate here but I had to respond. Despite what the media says this is not decided in the scientific community where we are still not convinced.

lkrupp

06-26-07, 07:52 AM

" and I believe this is way more politics than it is science."

Amen, brother.

Robert Simandl

06-26-07, 08:19 AM

Robert, I had the exact same problem. So did my neighbor. Charter had no clue. They sent a tech out after doing a bunch of remote stuff to my modem. In the end, just powering on and off both of the cable modems restored the 10mbps speed.

Hey Snyyder,

Woke up this morning and my download speed was back down to 950kb/s (about 110kB/s) -- about what it had been over the weekend. Haven't seen an announcement regarding this, but I'm now convinced Charter is doing some bandwidth throttling on people it considers "bandwidth abusers" (I'll admit I'm one of 'em).

This time instead of fuming and calling Charter, I pulled the plug on the cablemodem for 5 minutes, then plugged it back in. Speed immediately jumped back up to 380kB/s. Geez, why didn't I think of that over the weekend? :D

But in my own defense, why didn't the Charter csr think of that, either.... after all, that's usually the FIRST thing they tell you to do (even after you'd already done it before you called). :D

_token_

06-26-07, 08:44 AM

Robert, I had the exact same problem. So did my neighbor. Charter had no clue. They sent a tech out after doing a bunch of remote stuff to my modem. In the end, just powering on and off both of the cable modems restored the 10mbps speed.

I also had the same problem last night in St. Peters, MO.
Cycled the power and it was back to normal (7-9Mbps).

This AM I was back to 898 kbps down :mad:

Scott Tucker

06-26-07, 09:10 AM

I watched it also, along with the "Faked Moon Landing". Both were quite convincing. ;) I am a research scientist but in no way an expert in this field.

Some of Al's data is flawed or missleading which even he has recently conceded. For example, If you notice he didn't "overlay" the CO2 levels and Climate Temperture because if he would have you would have seen a 600 year lag between the increase in CO2 and Temperature rise. I do believe that the temperature worldwide is rising but it also rising on Mars. There is also scientific evidence that the warming is directly correlated (not 600 years...but directly) to activity of the sun.

I lived through the "global cooling scare of the 70's" and I believe this is way more politics than it is science.

Take a look at british documentary if you would like to see the other side of the story and understand the connection between this and nuclear power.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/programme.html

A good source of what is and isn't science:

http://www.junkscience.com/

I'm not trying to start a debate here but I had to respond. Despite what the media says this is not decided in the scientific community where we are still not convinced.

So...I CAN buy my new muscle car? Awesome! Seriously. I'm glad to see your remarks on this, and thanks for the links. I was thinking throughout the whole film what a counter point movie would say?

Scott

BudShark

06-26-07, 11:06 AM

I'd love to have a side-forum/area for us to discuss some of the off-topic areas - however - I'm sure once we start talking politics, science, religion our camaraderie will be lost. Somehow debating who the "STL's HD Leader" is, and who provides better TV service just doesn't seem to illicit the same emotion as whether global climate change is caused by humans, nature, the sun activity, universal forces, punishment for sins, or (as of yesterday) the fact that we aren't part of the Milky Way, but rather another solar system being consumed by the Milky Way....

Oh well - I do have to admit that Planet Eart is making me want to buy a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. It is a beautifully constructed, artful, television series.

Chris

lukin4u

06-26-07, 11:45 AM

http://www.speedtest.net/result/145770129.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Mr_Bester

06-26-07, 12:25 PM

...I'm sure once we start talking politics, science, religion our camaraderie will be lost. Somehow debating who the "STL's HD Leader" is, and who provides better TV service just doesn't seem to illicit the same emotion as whether global climate change....

Chris
Have you not been around for charter discussions? :eek: :D
Dug

WattoDaToydarian

06-26-07, 09:21 PM

I am having a problem with channel 9 now. My daughter watches PBS 9-2 and about a week or 2 ago it started cutting out a lot. It's no off quite a bit. Signal is around 70 - 74 and then it just drops out completely. Sometimes it will go down in the 60's but still stay on. My other channels are fine. Fox and NBC are at 100 and channel 4-1 is always about 93 - 94%. Did something change at PBS?
This same thing happened to me too, did KETC change their ota digital transmitter in some way :confused:
It was perfect for the longest time and now it's TOTAL crap, not even watchable :mad:

aspec2

06-26-07, 09:45 PM

Count it again, Walt :)
AOL - 6 below
C* - 7 below

Both have 2 average - wash
AOL has +1 above
C* has +1 below

kinda a comparison of the worst and worstest :D
I still use AOL (not as my ISP), because I have since '86, and am too lazy to do all the address change thing. AOL is the worst, imo. Their software is slow, redundant, and just overall annoying.
I've had no issues with Pipeline.

You are so right and I am so wrong. :o

Walt

chuckparr

06-26-07, 11:23 PM

DroptheRemote

06-27-07, 08:01 AM

Cox Cable Exec Cautions Against HD Quantity Over Quality

I suggest that we get the paperwork started on this guy's lifetime achievement nomination. :)

From today's TV Predictions newsletter:
_______________________________________________________

James Kelso, a top Cox Communications executive, says cable operators should not sacrifice the quality of the High-Definition picture in an effort to add more channels.

"I think we're all fools if we don't put (HD) quality at the head of the stack. There should be no trade off between quality and quantity," Kelso told the recent SCTE Cable-Tec Expo 2007, according to the web site, Cable360.

Kelso, Cox's vice president of video engineering, was referring to suggestions that TV providers compress the high-def signal to create room for more channels. But in doing so, the compression would reduce the sharpness and vividness of the picture.
_______________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.tvpredictions.com/kelso062707.htm)

BudShark

06-27-07, 11:20 AM

I wonder how much electricity all those concerts will use? Will that contribute to the global warming? Just wondering.

Now now - you wouldn't want ole' Al to fly here on his private jet, take a large SUV from the airport, and give you a thump on the head now would you? Its about awareness, and sometimes awareness requires you make sacrifices that go against your cause... Sheesh! ;)

BudShark

06-27-07, 11:25 AM

Cox Cable Exec Cautions Against HD Quantity Over Quality

You know where Cox is really big right? I bet Scott knows! ;)

And to keep it on topic (and further sadden the self-proclaimed greatest baseball fans in the country) - they run the Padres local broadcast channel (SD4). 100% of the Padres games televised by Cox are in HD and have been since 2003. Also - along the points the executive made, they are widely considered to be some of the best HD broadcasts in the country. INHD used to carry some of them nationally - not that we could ever see them in the Lou.

Chris

wmschultz

06-27-07, 12:09 PM

I have seen several SD4 HD broadcast this year, and you are correct. They are eye candy.

wmschultz

06-27-07, 12:14 PM

and further sadden the self-proclaimed greatest baseball fans in the country

BTW, when was the last time San Diego won the World Series? I guess you have
to be the greatest fans to keep going back :D

BudShark

06-27-07, 12:15 PM

I already had a debate about this with a guy at work - if we want to go down the "World Series won" argument - it only leads one place - and I'm sure you and I don't want to be Yankee fans! ;)

Chris

Mr_Bester

06-27-07, 12:55 PM

As someone who was born and raised here, every time I hear "greatest fans" I cringe, and then vomit....

MoInSTL

06-27-07, 01:25 PM

I acquired an old computer I am trying to fix up. If anyone has any old Rambus (184 pin RIMM modules) laying around please PM me. They were most commonly used on the Intel Pentium 4, which is what the old PC is. It currently has 128 megs. XP is as sluggish as expected. It'd be nice to boost it to 256 or 512.

Thanks in advance.

PWSHER

06-27-07, 01:42 PM

kdg454

06-27-07, 03:12 PM

You are so right and I am so wrong. :o

Walt
Cool...I've now met my 2007 quota....ask my wife :D {off topic label}

I'm out in LA visiting family. Went over to my brother's house last night, and he has HD radio in his living-room sound system. We listened to one of the stations here (KLOS) that transmits 24/7 in HD. It was the first time I've experienced it, and I found it quite impressive. He flipped it in/out of HD...very noticeable difference.
{sorta on topic label}

Scott Tucker

06-27-07, 03:16 PM

BTW, when was the last time San Diego won the World Series? I guess you have
to be the greatest fans to keep going back :D

Oh, you didn't...

Scott Tucker

06-27-07, 03:22 PM

Cool...I've now met my 2007 quota....ask my wife :D {off topic label}

I'm out in LA visiting family. Went over to my brother's house last night, and he has HD radio in his living-room sound system. We listened to one of the stations here (KLOS) that transmits 24/7 in HD. It was the first time I've experienced it, and I found it quite impressive. He flipped it in/out of HD...very noticeable difference.
{sorta on topic label}

All this talk about Padres, Los Angeles, and KLOS and I'm getting homesick. I was reared on KLOS 95.5 FM. I'm sure you can still pick it up in San Diego. KLOS was like KSHE here. Great station. Have fun out in the land of fruits and nuts. :)

matth1138

06-27-07, 03:50 PM

Charter's outgoing e-mail server is smtp.charter.net right? My Outlook is choking on outgoing mail....any suggestions?

Robert Simandl

06-27-07, 07:16 PM

Cox Cable Exec Cautions Against HD Quantity Over Quality

I suggest that we get the paperwork started on this guy's lifetime achievement nomination. :)

Now I *know* I worked too long today.

At first glance on the headline, I thought it said "Cox Cable Executions...."

Then I saw Doug's comment about giving the executioner a lifetime achievement award................

And I thought *I* hated cable TV companies.....

:D

BudShark

06-27-07, 09:52 PM

BTW, when was the last time San Diego won the World Series? I guess you have
to be the greatest fans to keep going back :D

By the way - there was a time when San Diego's "greatest fans" could go to the
Murph, park at 7pm, drink a six-pack in the parking lot, go to the ticket counter at 7:20PM, buy 2 tickets in the front row on the 1st base side and chat with Tony Gwynn between innings - with the other 5,500 fans (3,000 of which were season ticket holders who rarely showed up)! Try doing that here! (Oh wait... I guess that doesn't say much about us does it...)

BudShark

06-27-07, 09:55 PM

I'm out in LA visiting family. Went over to my brother's house last night, and he has HD radio in his living-room sound system. We listened to one of the stations here (KLOS) that transmits 24/7 in HD. It was the first time I've experienced it, and I found it quite impressive. He flipped it in/out of HD...very noticeable difference.

{HD Radio is HD OTA right??? So this is on topic!}
You know - Its never even entered my mind that HD radio would even be entertaining. The concept of better quality and more channels in radio doesn't do much for me. Now that you have experienced it are you looking at getting it? Or would you say its just not something that has staying power?

tcfila

06-28-07, 08:38 AM

But you are still stuck with the same crappy commercials...

MoInSTL

06-28-07, 09:45 AM

Mo, I guess you didn't know. Now we only label the "on topic" posts since they are fewer. :D

Opps, I goofed. :)

C'mon guys! There are enough geeks here. Someone has to have some old Rambus sticks.

RaceTripper

06-28-07, 09:50 AM

Opps, I goofed. :)

C'mon guys! There are enough geeks here. Someone has to have some old Rambus sticks.I've only used laptops since '99 (currently MBP).

Robert Simandl

06-28-07, 10:00 AM

Opps, I goofed. :)

C'mon guys! There are enough geeks here. Someone has to have some old Rambus sticks.

Sorry Mo,

I went from PC133 straight to DDR2100. Skipped RAMBUS.

MoInSTL

06-28-07, 10:08 AM

Sorry Mo,

I went from PC133 straight to DDR2100. Skipped RAMBUS.

I did too. I think most people did. But who knows. Someone may have some sitting in an old computer or a parts drawer.

tcfila

06-28-07, 10:23 AM

I've got a few old computers sitting on the shelves in the basement....I think.

What does a RAMBUS ram look like?

BudShark

06-28-07, 11:38 AM

RIMM - They are pretty unique. Note the two notches near the center - with no contacts between them.

Chris

Jeke

06-28-07, 11:55 AM

tenholde

06-28-07, 12:05 PM

MoInSTL

06-28-07, 12:21 PM

Okay, I do have two sticks I'm not using. Each stick is labeled: 128mb/4

Let me know if you still want them,

tenholde

I do. I'll PM you.

MoInSTL

06-28-07, 12:28 PM

RIMM - They are pretty unique. Note the two notches near the center - with no contacts between them.

Chris

Chris, thanks for posting the image. I took some SDRAM out of another old computer and was surprised to find RDRAM. All 4 slots have to be populated too. If there is no RAM stick it has to be filled with a C-RIMM stick (Continuity Modules).

aspec2

06-28-07, 01:11 PM

Opps, I goofed. :)

C'mon guys! There are enough geeks here. Someone has to have some old Rambus sticks.

I have a ton of old ram but I skipped Rambus. Too costly and 0 bang for buck.

Walt

Scott Tucker

06-28-07, 03:33 PM

Opps, I goofed. :)

C'mon guys! There are enough geeks here. Someone has to have some old Rambus sticks.

I have a few WebTV's you can have. :)

MoInSTL

06-28-07, 04:25 PM

Article (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/27/ap3864205.html)

Scott Tucker

06-28-07, 04:31 PM

Article (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/27/ap3864205.html)

Thanks for the link Mo. Glad they are not raising prices. Did you ever exchange your HR10-250 yet? If so how did it go?

Scott

BudShark

06-28-07, 04:32 PM

8 days and counting for launch!

I haven't decided if mainstream HD programming took longer than expected or not. If I go back to 1999/2000 - it would be hard to say whether 7-8 years for HD to be mainstream would be a good target.

I guess I am surprised at how long it is taking the hardware (TV and Set-tops) to come down - but I think that programming is actually ahead of where I would've expected it. I would have assumed that by 2007 there would be no SD cable set tops or satellite set top boxes and prices would still be in the $50-$100 range even though everything was HD. But I don't think I would have thought that by the end of 2007 most RSNs would be doing games in HD, and most of the major "cable" channels would be in HD or actively moving to HD.

Oh well - it is what it is and there's a reason I don't go by the nickname of Nostradamus.

Chris

MoInSTL

06-28-07, 04:56 PM

Thanks for the link Mo. Glad they are not raising prices. Did you ever exchange your HR10-250 yet? If so how did it go?

Scott

No, not yet. I was sort of waiting to see what the prices were going to be and if the rocket launches. I didn't want to get locked into another 2 year commitment with higher prices and the rocket launched yet. It's only a few more days until it launches.

Believe me, if I had the HR20, you guys would know as I am sure to have a lot of questions!

kdg454

06-28-07, 09:48 PM

All this talk about Padres, Los Angeles, and KLOS and I'm getting homesick. I was reared on KLOS 95.5 FM. I'm sure you can still pick it up in San Diego. KLOS was like KSHE here. Great station. Have fun out in the land of fruits and nuts. :)
And ya know, the format of the station is exactly the same. It hasn't changed. I listened to 2ferTuesday all day long :)

[wondering how long until Scott reads my Cards HD post]

kdg454

06-28-07, 10:01 PM

{HD Radio is HD OTA right??? So this is on topic!}
You know - Its never even entered my mind that HD radio would even be entertaining. The concept of better quality and more channels in radio doesn't do much for me. Now that you have experienced it are you looking at getting it? Or would you say its just not something that has staying power?
It was mostly the quality I was most impressed with...it seemed much richer and deeper to me. I have SAT (XM in one, Sirius in the other) in both vehicles, so more stations really don't do anything for me, but I would like to hear HD Radio inside a good vehicle sound system, before I buy the next car. I don't think it's something I'd add to the current cars...we listen to CD's and the iPod mostly anyway.

KLOS happened to play Stairway to Heaven. (take that Scott) My brother has a decent home system, but not by any means high-end stuff. He switched it in and out of HD, and then we listened to the song on the CD....I thought the HD Radio version was noticeably better, though the CD version he had was not a remastered track, and the HD Radio version may have been.

Scott Tucker

06-29-07, 09:38 AM

Scott:

To get 10 Mbit/second downstream reliably you would need to be very close to the CO or Remote Terminal. Very close means less than 1 mile.

If you are referring to the stainless steel cylinders I see on the corner less than 1/2 mile away, I am very close.

Update: Since Centurytel switched me to 6 mbit service, I have been rock solid with not one disconnection from Citibank's servers. :)

Scott

Scott Tucker

06-29-07, 09:40 AM

[wondering how long until Scott reads my Cards HD post]

OK now you got me wondering. I searched and have no idea what I missed. Is it some secret code? :confused:

Scott

moman19

06-29-07, 10:38 AM

While it certainly is digital and superior to the analog broadcast, "HD" Radio is actually a bit of a misnomer. It does not stand for High Definition, although it is clearly being marketed that way. In radio, the "HD" actually stands for Hybrid Digital. This is due to the fact that the technology allows the simulcasting of analog and digital signals.

FUD for thought......

Scott Tucker

06-29-07, 10:51 AM

DroptheRemote

06-29-07, 11:30 AM

I have several issues with HD Radio, completely separate from the technical merits, whatever they may be:

* First, HD Radio is being brought to us by the same folks who buggered terrestrial radio up one side and down the other over the past couple of decades. Obviously everyone has different tastes, but due to all the commercial interruptions (which tend more and more to be intermingled with the programming) and the lack of variety, music radio has become almost unlistenable for me. Even in other formats, the focus is on the advertiser, with the listener more or less an afterthought.

* Second, both TV and radio broadcasters reflexively look to stifle competition through any means possible, but their favorite method is the long arm of the National Association of Broadcasters' DC lobby. Witness the NAB's attempts to quash local weather and traffic reports on XM/Sirius and more recently the XM/Sirius merger, all the while duplicitously claiming that satellite radio is not a competitor to AM/FM radio. Then why are the broadcasters so involved in telling the government how and when to regulate satellite radio?

* Third, the only reason HD Radio exists is because XM and Sirius have built a better mousetrap. No way the radio broadcasters would be investing monies in new technology without a competitive threat on the scene. They've been milking their cash cow for decades now and would happily go back to that if XM and Sirius would do the right thing and just fade away.

I'll cop to having a strong bias in favor of the innovator, but it seems to me that even the promotion of HD Radio has a tone of foot-dragging reluctance to it. If Sirius and XM did go out of business tomorrow, I'm 90% certain that HD Radio promotion would shortly thereafter come to a screeching halt.

kdg454

06-29-07, 11:58 AM

OK now you got me wondering. I searched and have no idea what I missed. Is it some secret code? :confused:

Scott
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10174447#post10174447
October's schedule.

BudShark

06-29-07, 12:53 PM

BudShark

06-29-07, 12:54 PM

Oooh oooh... almost to 1000 posts. I better be real careful and start working on my thesis so I have a post worthy of #1000!!!!

BudShark

06-29-07, 12:54 PM

Dang it. I knew I'd blow it.

tcfila

06-29-07, 12:55 PM

Joseph Clark

06-29-07, 01:58 PM

Interesting...And don't forget, DVD really stands for "Digital Versatile Disc."

Scott

That was a short-lived name. Officially, DVD doesn't stand for anything. At least, that's the last official word I read. Originally, they wanted to call it Digital Video Disc, then Digital Versatile Disc (for its data capabilities), then decided it didn't have to stand for anything. Didn't seem to matter. It was wildly popular. If not for the format war, we might have some momentum behind HD discs as well.

DroptheRemote

06-29-07, 04:04 PM

An interesting analysis of the global video games market, via CNET's Crave blog.

This might seem more than a little bit off-topic, but I think there's considerable validity in the writer's suggestion that the benefit of having a Blu-Ray player in the PS3 is not as great as it might seem in terms of deciding the HD DVD vs. BD format war.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9737437-1.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

kdg454

06-29-07, 04:40 PM

bigusmfan

06-29-07, 04:44 PM

Joseph Clark

06-29-07, 06:02 PM

Joseph,
Presuming good OTA reception, will this thing work? There has to be some sort of "trade-off" :confused:
http://www.hammacher.com/publish/74133.asp?promo=QSearch&ls=DK

tia

Scott,
Is BudShark your paid spokesperson, or does he just reply on your behalf, cus he can :eek:

Looks like the Pinnacle USB stick I tried out some months ago. It worked just fine until I upgraded the software. Then it crapped out. Pinnacle stuff is known for being wonky. The Pinnacle device was about half the price, and still is. I guess some people are getting them to work, because they still sell them. My guess is you'll need a powerful laptop for it to have a chance of playing back HD. Mine wasn't quite up to glitch-free playback. A modern dual core machine shouldn't have any trouble. Try Googling Pinnacle USB ATSC tuner and you should find it. It was also sold under another name (AverMedia?).

The trade off between this type of device and something like MyHD is that MyHD does all the heavy lifting for HD playback, so even an ancient machine will play back ATSC files smoothly. But you can't get MyHD for a laptop.

Joseph Clark

06-29-07, 06:25 PM

Anybody here a Helio user? I've been reading about the device for a long time, but all the iPhone talk has me thinking seriously of upgrading my again Samsung PDA/Phone to something a little more modern. The Helio looks like it gets around all the iPhone's weaknesses for less money.

John Kotches

06-29-07, 10:25 PM

If you are referring to the stainless steel cylinders I see on the corner less than 1/2 mile away, I am very close.

Update: Since Centurytel switched me to 6 mbit service, I have been rock solid with not one disconnection from Citibank's servers. :)

Scott

CO is Central Office. That's where all the pairs that go out in the area come together into a larger phone system switch. Back in the day, that would have been a 5ESS but even that digital switch is out of date. I haven't needed to keep up with TelCo equipment in 10+ years so I haven't worried about what was in use.

A Remote Terminal acts as a pair aggregator and switches your "analog" line over to digital. So the effective cable run for DSL is then from the Remote Terminal to the wall jack instead of all the way back to the actual CO. It can be in that steel cylinder or elsewhere.

Cheers,

DroptheRemote

06-29-07, 11:08 PM

Now I know this is off-topic but I need suggestions. I need a local (St. Louis-CWE) installer who can give me an estimate on doing some speaker wire runs and advice on equipment placement. This is "new" construction but I didn't get the place until after it was drywalled.

I welcome your recommendations.

MikeYou could try John McMillian at Signal Seekers - (314) 704-0921 or (314) 918-0921. I've received good reports from a couple of my own customers, though I've not worked with him directly.

DroptheRemote

06-29-07, 11:44 PM

So, considering all the hype, someone here must have bought an iPhone. I'm interested in hearing reports, particularly the web experience.

Number one surprise for me is that the iPhone apparently does not provide for two-channel Bluetooth audio streaming. It's only single channel, so really designed just for conversations. This seems like a clanger of an omission, considering the iPod franchise that's being leveraged here. Steve Jobs could have trotted out the iPhone and wireless stereophones and made like Apple invented the entire concept.

Still, it looks like a big hit.

Scott Tucker

06-30-07, 12:05 AM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10174447#post10174447
October's schedule.

I can't believe I missed that one. Good one Ken, and always nice to know you're thnking of me. :)

Scott

Scott Tucker

06-30-07, 12:09 AM

Scott,
Is BudShark your paid spokesperson, or does he just reply on your behalf, cus he can :eek:

It's amazing what a guy will do for a sixpack of BUD.

Scott

Dan in St. Louis

06-30-07, 10:02 AM

I need a local (St. Louis-CWE) installer
Call Thomas, 776-4946.

aspec2

06-30-07, 10:08 AM

Interesting...And don't forget, DVD really stands for "Digital Versatile Disc."

Scott

If you were a Falcons fan, you would know that DVD stands for Dunn, Vick, Duckett. They were in HD also.

Walt

deuces

06-30-07, 01:14 PM

Thats just wrong... very very very wrong. And cruel.

You don't see Scott and I in here asking leading questions like:
Do you think St. Louis will end up with the worst record for a defending WS champ this year?
Or
What do you get when the St. Louis Cardinals have a 7 game win streak? Floods, pestilence, locust, and ALMOST a .500 record!
Or
Why even list October in the HD schedule for FOXMW??? ;)

Chris

If we're gonna make fun, let's all go back to the Cubs. I mean I know they are ahead of the Birds in the standings, but still 1908, I mean can that be a real year?

The worst thing about the Cardinals winning the World Series last year was the great joke that it ruined. Last year at this time you could ask: What do the Cubs and Cardinals have in common? Neither has won a World Series at their new stadium! :)

I mean I loved the World Series win, but did the team have to ruin the joke in the very first year?

Robert Simandl

06-30-07, 08:14 PM

Looks like Costco has cast its vote in the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war. Just got in the Sony BDP-S301 today for $449.99. Wish I had that much to spend at the moment.........

kdg454

07-01-07, 12:35 PM

DroptheRemote

07-01-07, 08:06 PM

FYI -- this afternoon I experienced a Charter Pipeline slowdown that was roughly similar to what Robert described here a week or so ago.

I noticed web pages were loading very slowly, so I did a speed check and was at 176 Kbps. I powered down the cable modem and router and restarted everything and speed is now back to 2,586 Kbps.

I'm hoping this is a one-off or just coincidental...

twombomber

07-02-07, 12:45 AM

Today begins the first, of 3, week-long Cards HD broadcasts. :)

Beginning today, and running through the All Star Game on July 10th, all Cards games will be broadcast in HD.

There is a similar 7-day run in August, and another 9-day (10 game) run in September.

Full Schedule HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10174447#post10174447)

Was glad to see all the HD games ready to roll. Only problem today was the game was almost unwatchable as satellite kept going out (happening on all channels on E*). Is this due to cloudcover? I have to say that being with sat for 4 months now and the outages have bordered on the unacceptable. Any hard rain seems to knock it out for a few minutes, the fiasco in May when they switched the satellite, today's frequent outages. Is this common?

kdg454

07-02-07, 01:13 AM

Was glad to see all the HD games ready to roll. Only problem today was the game was almost unwatchable as satellite kept going out (happening on all channels on E*). Is this due to cloudcover? I have to say that being with sat for 4 months now and the outages have bordered on the unacceptable. Any hard rain seems to knock it out for a few minutes, the fiasco in May when they switched the satellite, today's frequent outages. Is this common?
You may want to consider calling for a re-aim and check of your dish antenna. I watched the entire game on the SAT feed, not a single breakup for me.

I only experience, as I believe most here do, a weather related signal loss, 2-3 times-a-year, and they are only brief. Usually by the time the receiver restarts, it acquires the signal again.

If you're an E* sub, call AHDTS - 800-969-4388 :)

Joseph Clark

07-02-07, 01:54 AM

Robert Simandl

07-02-07, 08:33 AM

Hey Joe, congrats on getting the new server almost ready.

I had to replace the mobo in mine too (over and above replacing the mobo/CPU in my bedroom's PC) but was lucky enough that a $40 Asrock mobo and the P4 chip from the above-mentioned bedroom PC were all I needed. It even has integrated video so I can sell off another AGP video card on eBay. Net cost.... I may actually MAKE a few bucks.

Server as a whole now is running much more stably than the previous BioStar mobo ever did. Of course, that might be because the new RC1 release of Windows Home Server is a lot more stable in the software department than the CTP release was.

I'm about 60% done reloading all my media files into it. Another terabyte or so to go and I'm back up and running!

duihlein

07-02-07, 10:07 AM

Was glad to see all the HD games ready to roll. Only problem today was the game was almost unwatchable as satellite kept going out (happening on all channels on E*). Is this due to cloudcover? I have to say that being with sat for 4 months now and the outages have bordered on the unacceptable. Any hard rain seems to knock it out for a few minutes, the fiasco in May when they switched the satellite, today's frequent outages. Is this common?

I would have your allignment checked.
I have E* and did not have any problems/dropouts this weekend.
We do get dropouts on occasion, but nowhere near the magnitude you're suggesting. If we were my wife would have forced me to drop it by now.

Dave

_token_

07-02-07, 10:18 AM

[QUOTE=DroptheRemote]Number one surprise for me is that the iPhone apparently does not provide for two-channel Bluetooth audio streaming. .../QUOTE]

Another disappointing thing is that it only uses the 2G network :(
Why settle for a 100k data stream when 500-700k is available in so many cities?
This and the lack of a user swappable spare battery is going to keep me away for a while.

Gotta love the touch screen tho ;)

Token

duihlein

07-02-07, 10:45 AM

I wanted to thank everyone here for all the feedback on RAID technology. I've been researching systems and components and I've decided on unRaid for my server. It might be up and running now, but I got a bad mobo from Newegg and have to return it. I'll provide a full report when the system is operational. Always fun to talk tech, and we have a wealth of talented people here to go to for information. My HD collection should be much more secure soon.

Joe,
Let me know how you like the unRaid solution. I just replaced my 2.4 GHz P4 with a new Core 2 Duo setup. Now my video processing for a 1 hour video capture (SD) takes only 15 min, down from almost an hour.

I plan to use my old system as a Media server and I have been looking at unRaid.

Dave

tcfila

07-02-07, 11:08 AM

CardsFan1953

07-02-07, 11:40 AM

Was glad to see all the HD games ready to roll. Only problem today was the game was almost unwatchable as satellite kept going out (happening on all channels on E*). Is this due to cloudcover? I have to say that being with sat for 4 months now and the outages have bordered on the unacceptable. Any hard rain seems to knock it out for a few minutes, the fiasco in May when they switched the satellite, today's frequent outages. Is this common?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I don't believe I have seen a single telecast on Fox Sports Midwest in HD this year (have Direct) although I see the Fox Promo about HD but telling you to contact Charter. Does Charter have a lock on these HD broadcasts? With the upcoming games being broadcast in HD will I miss out?

Thank you in advance!

BudShark

07-02-07, 11:57 AM

CardsFan -

Short answer - yes you are missing out.

Long answer - no Charter does not have a lock. Dish Network also carries these broadcasts.

Really Long Answer - DirecTV is launching a new satellite this week. This satellite is what will give DirecTV more room for HD broadcasts. The satellite should begin providing us new service by the middle of August - middle of September (nobody knows the exact date). It is widely expected that FoxMW HD will be added at some point soon after that. Maybe.

Ridiculously Long Answer - DirecTV already carries a large number of Fox sports HD channels. FoxMW and DirecTV have had disagreements regarding carriage areas and others. No one (that I've seen) really knows why a popular channel like FoxMW was left off the list, but it was. Hopefully that will be remedied before too long. All 4 Padres games in August are in HD (although I expect to see them in Full HD! I'd still like to record them).

Hope it helps (although it doesn't make it better).

Oh yeah - And Welcome to the forum!

Chris

John Kotches

07-02-07, 11:58 AM

tstolze

07-02-07, 12:03 PM

My computer is dead.... I think.

When I turn it on, all the fans spin, the hard drive spins, but no Beep and nothing shows on the monitor.

Any suggestions?

Could it be the BIOS battery?

Thanks,
Tim

Make sure it's not the monitor, cable, or maybe the video card has worked partially out of its slot. Then I would make sure the ram is fully seated, if no change and more than one stick of ram, remove all but one and check again. Rotate through each stick of ram until you have tried all by themselves. Probably not a whole lot more that can be done beings you can't get an image.

(edit) slow typer :)

tcfila

07-02-07, 12:05 PM

Thanks, I will give it a try.

MoInSTL

07-02-07, 12:39 PM

My computer is dead.... I think.

When I turn it on, all the fans spin, the hard drive spins, but no Beep and nothing shows on the monitor.

Any suggestions?

Could it be the BIOS battery?

Thanks,
Tim

Batteries usually last a few years.

Do you have the manual that came with your motherboard? There should be a jumper that you move over to clear the CMOS. You wait a minute then move the jumper back and then try again. The jumper is usually near the battery. If you can't locate the jumper you can remove the battery for about 2 minutes and put it back in. Then try booting. It will set your BIOS back to the default settings so you will need to check they are correct when it boots back up. Either unplug the PC or flip the rocker switch off at the power supply before doing the above.

While the case is open, verify the CPU fan and any other fans on your board are spinning. If not, the CPU may get too warm when trying to start and shutdown to keep from frying it it.

Even though the lights come on and there is some spin-up it could be a failing power supply. The power draw is when it boots.

Have you made ANY changes to your current configuration?

Hope this helps.

Mo

CardsFan1953

07-02-07, 02:04 PM

tcfila

07-02-07, 04:10 PM

Batteries usually last a few years.

Do you have the manual that came with your motherboard? There should be a jumper that you move over to clear the CMOS. You wait a minute then move the jumper back and then try again. The jumper is usually near the battery. If you can't locate the jumper you can remove the battery for about 2 minutes and put it back in. Then try booting. It will set your BIOS back to the default settings so you will need to check they are correct when it boots back up. Either unplug the PC or flip the rocker switch off at the power supply before doing the above.

While the case is open, verify the CPU fan and any other fans on your board are spinning. If not, the CPU may get too warm when trying to start and shutdown to keep from frying it it.

Even though the lights come on and there is some spin-up it could be a failing power supply. The power draw is when it boots.

Have you made ANY changes to your current configuration?

Hope this helps.

Mo

Thanks for the advice. I did clear out the CMOS and tried another battery. No luck. All the fans are spinning. the optical drives are working and the Hard drive is spinning.

CPU???

Joseph Clark

07-02-07, 04:30 PM

Joe,
Let me know how you like the unRaid solution. I just replaced my 2.4 GHz P4 with a new Core 2 Duo setup. Now my video processing for a 1 hour video capture (SD) takes only 15 min, down from almost an hour.

I plan to use my old system as a Media server and I have been looking at unRaid.

Dave

I'll give a full report when I get the unRaid system up and running. The processing requirements for unRaid are not high, but the number of officially supported motherboards is not great. I got an inexpensive Asus P5B-VM DO motherboard (it's on the recommended list and has onboard video) and a cheapy Intel 2160 C2D processor. This mobo has 8 SATAII ports onboard.

I think the 3 drive version of unRaid is free, so you can see if your hardware will work with their software. Here's the link to the unRaid web site unRaid. (http://www.lime-technology.com/) The instructions for setting up the system leave something to be desired. They need a more comprehensive how-to guide. Maybe I'll offer to write one for them, since I read in the forums that a lot of people get stuck just trying to set it up. I know I did.

John Kotches was the one who got me interested in unRaid, along with Bob Simandl. John has an unRaid system, so at this point he knows a lot more about it than I do. I think I'm ready to boot into the unRaid system, but until I get a working motherboard, I won't know for sure. I got an open box Asus board from Newegg, but in this case open box meant DOA. No more Newegg open box items for me.

bluedevil23

07-03-07, 01:27 AM

Thanks for the advice. I did clear out the CMOS and tried another battery. No luck. All the fans are spinning. the optical drives are working and the Hard drive is spinning.

CPU???

I would put my money on the CPU or a bad mobo, most of the other things that could go out will create error beeps on any mobo worth a penny. I had a CPU die on my computer and it didn't post or do anything at all.

Mo, do you still need Rambus? I have a couple 256 sticks and a couple 128 sticks floating here somewhere.

MoInSTL

07-03-07, 12:45 PM

Thanks for the advice. I did clear out the CMOS and tried another battery. No luck. All the fans are spinning. the optical drives are working and the Hard drive is spinning.

CPU???

It could very well be. But I have seen that infreguently unless it got too hot. I have seen them get loose (the old slot one CPUs). I have also seen them not hooked up with the 4-pin power connector. I have also seen the motherboard go bad when RAM or PCI cards are not fully seated and short it and or the components out.

Look to see if any of the mobo capacitors are bulging or leaking. Did you leave the power off long enough to drain the capacitors when you replaced the battery?

Remove all your RAM. It should beep at you if the rest of it is okay. Then try one stick at a time. I'd disconnect the optical drives from the PSU even though they don't draw a lot of power. In fact, just having a bare bones system is best when troubleshooting.

Please send me a PM with your system specs and BIOS, power supply maker.

Edit: Do you have an old PCI video card to test with?

MoInSTL

07-03-07, 01:01 PM

Mo, do you still need Rambus? I have a couple 256 sticks and a couple 128 sticks floating here somewhere.

Yes, thanks. Tenholde offered too but he's way down in South City. I'm way up by the airport. Where do you live?

DroptheRemote

07-03-07, 01:07 PM

EC Investigating Blu-ray Deals for Anti-Trust

I saw this earlier this morning but didn't post it because more and more it seems that the European Commission sees anti-trust issues in the same way that a 4-hour-old with a toy hammer sees nails -- they're everywhere and must be smashed!

But I guess it is relevant news...from InfoWorld online:
_________________________________________________

The European Union's antitrust regulator has asked Hollywood studios to turn over information about their negotiations with the developers of high-definition DVD formats, giving them until the end of this week to respond.

The European Commission is concerned that exclusive deals struck by some studios with the backers of either the HD DVD or Blu-ray Disc formats may be a sign of anticompetitive activity in the industry.

HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc are competing for the attention of movie studios, which are increasingly releasing their films in high-definition format alongside the regular DVDs carrying standard-definition versions of the films.
_________________________________________________

To read the full story, click here (http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/07/03/EU-examines-high-def-DVD_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/07/03/EU-examines-high-def-DVD_1.html)

tcfila

07-03-07, 01:24 PM

It could very well be. But I have seen that infreguently unless it got too hot. I have seen them get loose (the old slot one CPUs). I have also seen them not hooked up with the 4-pin power connector. I have also seen the motherboard go bad when RAM or PCI cards are not fully seated and short it and or the components out.

Look to see if any of the mobo capacitors are bulging or leaking. Did you leave the power off long enough to drain the capacitors when you replaced the battery?

Remove all your RAM. It should beep at you if the rest of it is okay. Then try one stick at a time. I'd disconnect the optical drives from the PSU even though they don't draw a lot of power. In fact, just having a bare bones system is best when troubleshooting.

Please send me a PM with your system specs and BIOS, power supply maker.

Edit: Do you have an old PCI video card to test with?

MO,

Thanks for the help. I just ordered a new computer. I built this one about 6 years ago, so it is a good excuse to get a new one. I honestly don't think I could have built one as cheap as I got one from Dell. I will take out the hard drive on the "broken" one and transfer all the data to the new one, then put the HDD into the kids computer.

Tim

MoInSTL

07-03-07, 01:44 PM

MO,

Thanks for the help. I just ordered a new computer. I built this one about 6 years ago, so it is a good excuse to get a new one. I honestly don't think I could have built one as cheap as I got one from Dell. I will take out the hard drive on the "broken" one and transfer all the data to the new one, then put the HDD into the kids computer.

Tim

Well, that's one solution. :D

No, you can't build one as cheap. Don't order additional RAM from them as they charge way too much for it. Order it from someone else.

John Kotches

07-03-07, 01:59 PM

EC Investigating Blu-ray Deals for Anti-Trust

I saw this earlier this morning but didn't post it because more and more it seems that the European Commission sees anti-trust issues in the same way that a 4-hour-old with a toy hammer sees nails -- they're everywhere and must be smashed!

Info World quotation deleted

This one actually works both ways though...

It is bad for consumers in the sense that the manufacturers are "buying the affinity" of particular content providers to one technology or the other. To get everything possible in HD, it is currently necessary to buy into both solutions. It might very well be that without financial incentives we'd see a slightly more balanced distribution on both Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

It is also bad that exclusivity could be more about financial incentives than it is about any real product superiority in the marketplace. On paper we all know that Blu-ray is a clear winner. In practice it's a draw at best, and from a technological perspective in all frankness HD-DVD has delivered much better than Blu-ray.

OTOH, it is very bad that the fractured market has IMO slowed adoption of High Definition Blue Laser disc solutions. The consumer indecision (or confusion) is holding back adoption as we reach the HD tipping point in terms of US household penetration. This is just one of the reasons why I think it's the last generation of media we'll be able to buy and own/collect as physical media.

Best,

John Kotches

07-03-07, 02:10 PM

Well, that's one solution. :D

No, you can't build one as cheap. Don't order additional RAM from them as they charge way too much for it. Order it from someone else.

Convenience over $$$. Yes they are a bit pricey on their RAM upgrades, I tend to look at things from a total delivered price. The best deal is to get a machine initially configured with the right amount of RAM instead of upgrading.

Remember that not everyone is comfy popping open a chassis and inserting or removing DIMMs. Just like not everyone is comfy repairing a car ;)

MoInSTL

07-03-07, 02:56 PM

Convenience over $$$. Yes they are a bit pricey on their RAM upgrades, I tend to look at things from a total delivered price. The best deal is to get a machine initially configured with the right amount of RAM instead of upgrading.

Remember that not everyone is comfy popping open a chassis and inserting or removing DIMMs. Just like not everyone is comfy repairing a car ;)

Generally speaking, I somewhat agree. I know almost anyone can be walked through it over the phone and there are tons of online videos and detailed instructions. He said he built his last PC so he knows how to install RAM. As far as Dell goes, I disagree. Less $ to buy what it ships with it and get more from a third party.

FWIW, I used to change my own oil & filter. Have replaced a starter and other stuff in the past. All I do now is change my air filter. :)

wmschultz

07-03-07, 02:56 PM

Remember that not everyone is comfy popping open a chassis and inserting or removing DIMMs. Just like not everyone is comfy repairing a car ;)

I do both.

tcfila

07-03-07, 03:05 PM

I gave up changing my own oil many years ago. It just isn't worth saving 10 bucks or so.

BudShark

07-03-07, 03:06 PM

BudShark

07-03-07, 03:11 PM

FYI - I have a Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM) coming from DirecTV on a beta program. This is the new device that they will be releasing (soon?) that the new receivers can have dual tuners from a single line. In addition, the way it feeds you can actually use cascaded wiring without homerunning all receivers. So in the case of someone who has 2 HD DVRs, and a regular single tuner device in an old house with a cascaded coax line, using the SWM5 channel you would have 4 satellite feeds coming into the SWM and 1 wire coming out. All the receivers would be able to tune in their independent stations off this 1 wire.

Also of note, the SWM8 (8 channel) allows up to 8 tuners off the wire, while also supporting a diplexed OTA signal. Neat stuff that is very late in coming. Both of the switches also have legacy ports.

I'll post pics and results when I get it set up. Hope to receive it this week, but it may be next due to the holiday.

Chris

John Kotches

07-03-07, 04:28 PM

I'm with you Tim. I grew up on tech, worked at MSFT, built multiple PCs/servers/components. I stopped putting my own PCs together several years ago and doubt I will anymore. Especially now that I am into visual things its too much of a pain to mix and match components, software, drivers, and get components, etc... I'd rather buy a "system" and tweak from the starting point. I've just lost that cost vs. rewards equation when it comes to PCs.

Chris

Right, the question is how much value the completely integrated solution brings to you versus how much time you have to spend getting a build your own solution that you have to do the integration work on.

I still prefer to DIY desktop machines, but only because I actually enjoy the learning that goes on with each new one.

Cheers,

Joseph Clark

07-03-07, 04:35 PM

I'm with you Tim. I grew up on tech, worked at MSFT, built multiple PCs/servers/components. I stopped putting my own PCs together several years ago and doubt I will anymore. Especially now that I am into visual things its too much of a pain to mix and match components, software, drivers, and get components, etc... I'd rather buy a "system" and tweak from the starting point. I've just lost that cost vs. rewards equation when it comes to PCs.

Chris

It's almost always cheaper to buy a preconfigured system than to put one together yourself, unless you have specific needs. For my friends who want to get into computing to do the typical things (web surfing, e-mail, photo capture and sharing, word processing), I always recommend they just buy a system off the shelf. You just can't put one together cheaper, and you have none of the hassles. Unfortunately, I can never find one that does exactly what I want it to do, with just the right video card, case, power supply, free slots, etc. So, I end up building my own. I love that flexibility.

redwine

07-03-07, 06:25 PM

bballcards

07-03-07, 07:37 PM

Looks like Costco has cast its vote in the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war. Just got in the Sony BDP-S301 today for $449.99. Wish I had that much to spend at the moment.........
Not really. Other Costcos around the country had been carrying the Toshiba HD-D2 (similar to the HD-A2) for $349.99 (for a while, they also had a $100 instant rebate on the model, and I hear it has since dropped to $279.99). I didn't see the Toshiba at my local Costco, however.

Robert Simandl

07-03-07, 11:02 PM

It's almost always cheaper to buy a preconfigured system than to put one together yourself, unless you have specific needs. For my friends who want to get into computing to do the typical things (web surfing, e-mail, photo capture and sharing, word processing), I always recommend they just buy a system off the shelf. You just can't put one together cheaper, and you have none of the hassles. Unfortunately, I can never find one that does exactly what I want it to do, with just the right video card, case, power supply, free slots, etc. So, I end up building my own. I love that flexibility.

Yeah, it's been kinda tough to find PC's in the stores with two HD tuner cards or space for 12 hard drives, or whose definition of a "big" hard drive is more than 300 gigs. :D

WinstonSmith

07-03-07, 11:31 PM

Have any of you guys ever built speaker stands? I currently have three surround speakers (I have a 6.1 system) sitting on my end tables, which is obviously not ideal. However, when I look at the prices of speaker stands, I just can't justify the cost.

I figure I'm not the only one who feels this way, and I'm guessing others have built their own. I've considered the fashionable MDF as material, but I suppose I'm lost on the design idea. Has anyone done anything like this?

Joseph Clark

07-04-07, 03:37 AM

Yeah, it's been kinda tough to find PC's in the stores with two HD tuner cards or space for 12 hard drives, or whose definition of a "big" hard drive is more than 300 gigs. :D

You're just spoiled with those honkin' 750 GB drives, Bob. :)

SHADO 1

07-04-07, 08:49 AM

aspec2

07-04-07, 10:11 AM

Ok all you D* guys. I need some help, pleeeze. How can I integrate the D* remote (H20) with a JVC (HD-FC5697) remote. I can't find the codes or info in either manual or info on auto searching for them.

I am so ashamed. Sat. and Digital all at once. I am a failure as a father. :o :D

Walt

aspec2

07-04-07, 10:32 AM

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. All is well.

Walt :o

kdg454

07-04-07, 10:40 AM

I'm curious about something, so an open question to everyone:

During the FSN "HD Spectacular Week" currently going on for the Cards games, FSN has been running advertising spots promoting it. At the end of the ad spot, they are tagged with a statement that says, "brought to you by Charter Communications."

Is that to say that, Charter has ponied up some of the additional costs of these HD productions, or simply that Charter paid a small advertising fee to have their name tagged to the end of the FSN ad spot? I also noticed, the brief blurbs, say towards the beginning of the game, the "in HD" announcement only includes Charter Comm Channel 792 [?], and "contact your satellite provider." Whereas, in the past, both DISH and DirecTv channels have been listed.

Our general conscencious, in the past has been, Charter has usually demonstrated a "eh" attitude towards HD. If, in fact, they have contributed to offset the costs of these HD productions, that's saying something, IMO.

Wondering how the rest of you "read" this to be, or, if perhaps someone here knows for sure. :confused:

John Kotches

07-04-07, 04:14 PM

You're just spoiled with those honkin' 750 GB drives, Bob. :)

C'mon guys -- for most people, 300GB is more than they will need.

Cheers,

Joseph Clark

07-04-07, 06:40 PM

C'mon guys -- for most people, 300GB is more than they will need.

Cheers,

True, John, but "most people" don't read this thread. :) And remember when the original PC makers put a 640KB limit on PC memory? No one was ever going to need more than that. Today, Vista gets a weak cough if you don't feed it more than a GB of memory.

Come Friday, don't be too surprised if you get a call from me with questions about unRaid. That's when the new mobo is supposed to get here from Newegg. Keep that day open. :D

So, we thought it was a light summer for HD news and talk on the St. Louis thread - well, just take a look at the latest issue of Widescreen Review. It's about the thickness of three Kleenex tissues, and it's a double issue - July/August combined. Slim Pickens' ears must be burning.

WinstonSmith

07-04-07, 09:07 PM

Why is there no HD news?

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

WinstonSmith

07-04-07, 09:10 PM

I've made speaker stands using MDF for the top shelf and lower shelf, and i used 2x2's for the supports. I made mine triangular so it would fit into the corners. I painted mine gloss black.

Would you happen to have any pictures of the ones you made? I'm a visual type of guy when it comes to these sorts of things =] If not, no big deal. Thanks for the tip though, its nice to know that someone else was able to do it.

By the way, I hope everyone had a great 4th of July. Not to just grab attention here, but this was maybe my favorite ever. My first wedding anniversary is this Sunday, and we finally have purchased and set up the furniture and everything in house the way we want it, where we want it, etc. and I had my mom and dad over for a REAL BBQ for the first time in my new house w/ my wife. It was a great day and I was really proud =] Hope everyone else's was great, too!

bluedevil23

07-04-07, 10:47 PM

Yes, thanks. Tenholde offered too but he's way down in South City. I'm way up by the airport. Where do you live?

I'm also in the South City, but I work in Olivette and travel for work fairly regularly so I'm at the airport a lot, I'm sure we could work something out. I'll have to double check that I can find the memory first :). I'll let you know.

kdg454

07-05-07, 12:07 AM

For me, tonight's Cards HD broadcast was a mess on DISH. Break-ups.
Anyone else?

bluedevil23

07-05-07, 12:25 AM

For me, tonight's Cards HD broadcast was a mess on DISH. Break-ups.
Anyone else?

I have Dish at home, but was at my parent's house and they have Charter. Watched the whole game in HD and it was fine.

Joseph Clark

07-05-07, 02:53 AM

For me, tonight's Cards HD broadcast was a mess on DISH. Break-ups.
Anyone else?

Same here, Ken. The picture dropped out altogether for a while and was in and out, even though there was hardly a cloud in that area of the sky.

I've been less than impressed by the Fox HD coverage. There's a milky quality to the image, a serious lack of depth. The KSDK image actually looks a lot sharper and the image really pops with their coverage. It's not just a 1080i vs 720p thing. The Fox image just looks hazy.

kdg454

07-05-07, 09:29 AM

Scott/Chris....other SD'ers...

MLB has added a feature that allows you to view any half-inning, of any previous game. For example, last nights FLA/SD game ended with SD scoring the only run of the game, in the bottom 9th.

From the MLB Scoreboard:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/scoreboard/20070704.html
click on any half inning you want to view. No cost or sub required. :)

Just how many different uniforms do the Pad's have, anyway?

John Kotches

07-05-07, 10:21 AM

True, John, but "most people" don't read this thread. :)

I agree with that, but preconfigured machines are built for "most people" :) Configurable machines are built for "some of the rest" and "Spec/buy/assemble" your own covers just about everyone else.

And remember when the original PC makers put a 640KB limit on PC memory? No one was ever going to need more than that. Today, Vista gets a weak cough if you don't feed it more than a GB of memory.

I do believe that today's machine is doing a bit more than that DOS machine was way back when, and I'm also fairly certain that Bill Gates has said that that quote was taken way out of context.

Come Friday, don't be too surprised if you get a call from me with questions about unRaid. That's when the new mobo is supposed to get here from Newegg. Keep that day open. :D

I would, but I'm doing a consulting gig in Denver and I'll be working all day. Otherwise, I'd be happy to lend a hand.

If you don't mind delayed tech support, then feel free to call :D

Ok, here's my top tips:

1) Find the HP format tool they suggest and format your memory stick with it. That was my biggest hindrance to getting UnRaid up and running fast. I'm using a Lexar Firefly 1GB stick 'cause it's got a small footprint.

2) Label the drives as you go; so that you know which is which in the case :D

3) Don't forget to stop the array before shutting down so that you don't have to recalculate parity every time. Tom pointed out the error of my ways. I'm going to add a stop command to shutdown so that it will always be stopped by the system and also add a start command too :D

4) I couldn't get an NTFS to mount up, so I had to mount up a drive after installation and copy manually.

5) The "universal shares", ie \\machine\mount_point work fine for reads, not yet for writes. So write using a specific share, ie
\\machine\drive_X\mountpoint

6) Give all your disks identical structures so that the aggregate shares are used whenever possible.

There you go, my Q&D (quick and dirty) lessons learned when I was getting UnRaid up and running.

So, we thought it was a light summer for HD news and talk on the St. Louis thread - well, just take a look at the latest issue of Widescreen Review. It's about the thickness of three Kleenex tissues, and it's a double issue - July/August combined. Slim Pickens' ears must be burning.

It's all about the advertising, and it isn't there in the summer months.

Hopefully it'll pick up soon though ;)

Cheers,

MSloss

07-05-07, 11:55 AM

Since this has turned into the DSL forum thread, here's my .02 cents.

I just upgraded my Centurytel to 10 meg to get better connection to my Banks servers since I now work form home. As soon as I did, I kept getting cut off the servers. Yesterday they came out and did something to the line, and dropped my speed to 6 megs, and all is fine. Not sure why 10 megs is a problem, but the tech said 10 meg band was having issues. There, now I am happy to partake in the DSL thread.

Scott

I decided to give the upgrade a try from 1.5 to 10M, which was done Monday. Now I am getting a similar issue. When it is up I am getting 6.2M down/700K up, but overnight it degrades to where there is a 25% packet loss on pings and no response at all from IE.

I called support yesterday (yes, it was a holiday) and the person didn't know of any issues with the 10MB service. Now I have to wait for someone to check the line and get back to me.

I would be happy with a solid 6 meg, but apparently they all have not been given the word on the 10 meg issue.

Mike

Robert Simandl

07-05-07, 12:02 PM

CenturyTel DSL isn't available in my neighborhood at all. :(

Weird, since CenturyTel is the default local telephone provider here, having taken it over from Verizon several years back. I had dumped them for Charter phone while Verizon was still GTE... and GTE phone service then was even worse than Charter is now.

Joseph Clark

07-05-07, 03:04 PM

I agree with that, but preconfigured machines are built for "most people" :) Configurable machines are built for "some of the rest" and "Spec/buy/assemble" your own covers just about everyone else.

I do believe that today's machine is doing a bit more than that DOS machine was way back when, and I'm also fairly certain that Bill Gates has said that that quote was taken way out of context.

I would, but I'm doing a consulting gig in Denver and I'll be working all day. Otherwise, I'd be happy to lend a hand.

If you don't mind delayed tech support, then feel free to call :D

Ok, here's my top tips:

1) Find the HP format tool they suggest and format your memory stick with it. That was my biggest hindrance to getting UnRaid up and running fast. I'm using a Lexar Firefly 1GB stick 'cause it's got a small footprint.

2) Label the drives as you go; so that you know which is which in the case :D

3) Don't forget to stop the array before shutting down so that you don't have to recalculate parity every time. Tom pointed out the error of my ways. I'm going to add a stop command to shutdown so that it will always be stopped by the system and also add a start command too :D

4) I couldn't get an NTFS to mount up, so I had to mount up a drive after installation and copy manually.

5) The "universal shares", ie \\machine\mount_point work fine for reads, not yet for writes. So write using a specific share, ie
\\machine\drive_X\mountpoint

6) Give all your disks identical structures so that the aggregate shares are used whenever possible.

There you go, my Q&D (quick and dirty) lessons learned when I was getting UnRaid up and running.

It's all about the advertising, and it isn't there in the summer months.

Hopefully it'll pick up soon though ;)

Cheers,

Thanks for the tips, John, and have a good trip to Denver.

I remember getting a letter from a company a long time ago, asking if I would be interested in a product they were thinking about developing. It would have extended the Commodore 64's memory from 64KBs to 1MB. I remember being struck by that massive capacity. I was writing a game program with a friend at the time, and it's amazing how much we were able to do with the small amount of memory available to us in the C64 and Apple IIe. Of course, it was a text adventure. :cool: Don't ask if the game got published. After some initial talks with Electronic Arts, the process stalled because, even back then, a two-person development team was too small (especially when both people had full time jobs).

Scott Tucker

07-05-07, 03:42 PM

I decided to give the upgrade a try from 1.5 to 10M, which was done Monday. Now I am getting a similar issue. When it is up I am getting 6.2M down/700K up, but overnight it degrades to where there is a 25% packet loss on pings and no response at all from IE.

I called support yesterday (yes, it was a holiday) and the person didn't know of any issues with the 10MB service. Now I have to wait for someone to check the line and get back to me.

I would be happy with a solid 6 meg, but apparently they all have not been given the word on the 10 meg issue.

Mike

Yeah, I would just call them back and let them know you want them to drop it to 6 megs. That should save you a lot of trouble down the road. I have been rock solid since the fix.

Scott

Scott Tucker

07-05-07, 03:43 PM

kdg454

07-05-07, 04:07 PM

Not sure how many uni's they have, but you'll see them come october. :D

Scott
Where....shop.mlb.com??

To task, anyone else interested in monitoring the DTV10 satellite launch tomorrow evening, can HERE (http://www.dbstalk.com/chat.php?/)
No registration required :)

MoInSTL

07-05-07, 04:19 PM

It's almost always cheaper to buy a preconfigured system than to put one together yourself, unless you have specific needs. For my friends who want to get into computing to do the typical things (web surfing, e-mail, photo capture and sharing, word processing), I always recommend they just buy a system off the shelf. You just can't put one together cheaper, and you have none of the hassles. Unfortunately, I can never find one that does exactly what I want it to do, with just the right video card, case, power supply, free slots, etc. So, I end up building my own. I love that flexibility.

Ditto. After getting addicted to overclocking for a few years I went exactly the opposite direction this last time around. I went for a quiet PC. I had so many fans in my old server case I could not talk on the phone in my office! Other people thought I was on my cell phone with the car windows rolled down on the freeway. It was crazy! So anyway, this time I bought specific components for a quiet PC. I love my Raptor hard drives so it's not a silent PC, but it's pretty darn close.

MSloss

07-05-07, 04:23 PM

Yeah, I would just call them back and let them know you want them to drop it to 6 megs. That should save you a lot of trouble down the road. I have been rock solid since the fix.

Scott

Yeah, they called back and said everything looks fine at their end (of course :rolleyes: ), and I need to troubleshoot with them again when I get home. They said I could call cust svc to downgrade to 6Mb, but they would not admit to knowing anything about the 10Mb issues you and others have reported.

Mike

Scott Tucker

07-05-07, 05:31 PM

SHADO 1

07-05-07, 06:06 PM

Would you happen to have any pictures of the ones you made? I'm a visual type of guy when it comes to these sorts of things =] If not, no big deal. Thanks for the tip though, its nice to know that someone else was able to do it

Sorry no pictures, but the construction was simple. The top and bottom shelves are triangles with notches at each corner to accept the 2x2 legs. The top shelf is flush at the top of each leg, and the lower shelf is 6 inches from the bottom. The legs are 36" high. Each leg is screwed, countersunk and plugged to the shelves along with an L bracket on the back side for extra support. I used felt bottom pads under each leg. I sanded all the corners smooth, primed and painted with gloss black paint. If was doing this over I would use a router to ease all the corners.

Joseph Clark

07-05-07, 07:55 PM

Ditto. After getting addicted to overclocking for a few years I went exactly the opposite direction this last time around. I went for a quiet PC. I had so many fans in my old server case I could not talk on the phone in my office! Other people thought I was on my cell phone with the car windows rolled down on the freeway. It was crazy! So anyway, this time I bought specific components for a quiet PC. I love my Raptor hard drives so it's not a silent PC, but it's pretty darn close.

My PC's used to be in my bedroom, and I had to shut them down altogether if I wanted to sleep. Fortunately, the way my house is laid out, I was able to move all my PC's to the basement, just below the bedroom. I ran USB2 and FireWire cables up to the bedroom, along with a KVM cable. That way, I can have a huge fan blowing on my systems, along with the smaller case fans, and I can't hear anything. That's why I don't worry about OCing noise anymore when I'm building a system.

DroptheRemote

07-05-07, 11:28 PM

Illinois Governor Signs Law on State Video Franchising

This means AT&T will be able to apply for a statewide franchise agreement for distribution of its U-verse service throughout the state.

In addition, beginning in 2008. the law provides a more defined process for handling of service installations, customer cancellations, vendor service disconnections for non-payment, etc.

The following story is from Multichannel News:

______________________________________________________

Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich signed a law which assigns franchising authority to the state’s Commerce Commission.

The governor said the bill, SB678 will provide consumers with more providers while requiring incumbent operators to provide more reliable, on-time service.

In addition to shifting franchising authority to state officials, the bill introduces a number of new customer service rules, such as the implementation of standards for installation, repair, telephone response time, billing, collections and services for the disabled.

Some of the specific rules: consumers must have 30 days written warning before a change in rates, and bills must give consumers 28 days before the payment is due.

If a consumer receives notice of a pending disconnection, a company must wait 21 days before acting on that disconnection. If a customer cancels service, that order must be carried out within seven days.

Incumbent providers may apply for state licensing, but they must give their current local franchisors 180 days notice and must pay off existing public, educational and government channel support obligations, according to the bill.

While the transfer of state authority took effect when the governor signed the bill July 3, implementation of service quality standards for incumbents will not begin until Jan. 1, 2008.
______________________________________________________

tstolze

07-06-07, 01:52 AM

Yeah, they called back and said everything looks fine at their end (of course :rolleyes: ), and I need to troubleshoot with them again when I get home. They said I could call cust svc to downgrade to 6Mb, but they would not admit to knowing anything about the 10Mb issues you and others have reported.

Mike

I have had a tech out to my home in the last week from Centurytel. He again stated that he did not know when the "fix" would happen. He mentioned the last time they did an upgrade like what is needed everyone in the area lost DSL for 1-1/2 days. :confused:

I am currently experiencing occasional sync lose when a call is made or received. They insisted on checking the inside wiring, surprise nothing wrong! :D But seems they don't want to look into the wiring from my home to the RT(about 1-1/2 miles).

aspec2

07-06-07, 09:51 AM

My PC's used to be in my bedroom, and I had to shut them down altogether if I wanted to sleep. Fortunately, the way my house is laid out, I was able to move all my PC's to the basement, just below the bedroom. I ran USB2 and FireWire cables up to the bedroom, along with a KVM cable. That way, I can have a huge fan blowing on my systems, along with the smaller case fans, and I can't hear anything. That's why I don't worry about OCing noise anymore when I'm building a system.

I was an overclocker when people were using petiers to cool their processors. I was always worried about condensate. Then came water cooling. Unlike the store bought units today, my heatsinks were custom made from copper blocks by a toolmaker in my employ. I used a 1 gallon tank with 2 pumps. One pump circulated distilled water through 2 external heatsinks cooled by peltier units. The other pumped water through the PCs. A Micrologix PLC kept the pumps, power supply and peltiers running at the appropriate times. The water in the tank was kept at 20 C. The system could get down to 11C with 2 PCs running. There were no fans in my systems. The cooler was kept in a closet in the basement with the hoses through the floor. The first PC was a 600 meg Celeron (a disabled Pentium) that ran at 1.2 gig (it ran at 900 meg on air). It was very stable and ran until 2 gig processors were available. Over time the heatsinks began to leak so I quit using the system. I am now rethinking the process. It would be nice to remove the fans from my projector and keep it very quiet and very cool while viewing HD. Unfortunately the WAF was so bad, I scrapped most of the hardware.

Walt

MSloss

07-06-07, 10:43 AM

I have had a tech out to my home in the last week from Centurytel. He again stated that he did not know when the "fix" would happen. He mentioned the last time they did an upgrade like what is needed everyone in the area lost DSL for 1-1/2 days. :confused:

I am currently experiencing occasional sync lose when a call is made or received. They insisted on checking the inside wiring, surprise nothing wrong! :D But seems they don't want to look into the wiring from my home to the RT(about 1-1/2 miles).

I was on the phone with a first level tech for over an hour last night trying to get this escalated. He kept trying to blame my router (even though it was working for the last 3 years just fine until they upped the speed), or have me wait for another degradation and call them back again. He finally opened another trouble ticket when the DSL light started blinking and resetting. Waiting again today for a response to that. If this one doesn't get anywhere, I will go with Scott's suggestion and just have them change it to 6 meg.

To keep somewhat on topic, can't wait to watch the DTV10 launch tonight at 8:16pm on channel 570! :D

Mike

wmschultz

07-06-07, 11:51 AM

To keep somewhat on topic, can't wait to watch the DTV10 launch tonight at 8:16pm on channel 570! :D

Mike
WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!

MoInSTL

07-06-07, 12:22 PM

I was on the phone with a first level tech for over an hour last night trying to get this escalated. He kept trying to blame my router (even though it was working for the last 3 years just fine until they upped the speed), or have me wait for another degradation and call them back again.

Mike

Mike,

FWIW, in Phoenix I had an older wireless D-Link router that did throttle my speed. I bought a new Linksys wireles router and the problem was solved. Of course if you plug it in bypassing the router and it's still slower, the tech can't blame your router.

May want to check out these tests (http://www.dslreports.com/tools) from Broadband Reports. Tweak Test followed by Dr. TCP.

MSloss

07-06-07, 12:52 PM

Mike,

FWIW, in Phoenix I had an older wireless D-Link router that did throttle my speed. I bought a new Linksys wireles router and the problem was solved. Of course if you plug it in bypassing the router and it's still slower, the tech can't blame your router.

May want to check out these tests (http://www.dslreports.com/tools) from Broadband Reports. Tweak Test followed by Dr. TCP.

Thanks for the link, MO. I will check those tools out. My problem is a gradual degradation to the point the modem has to be power reset to restore connectivity. It works initially but over several hours the connection degrades to where pings showed over 50% packet loss. That and the fact that the DSL light doesn't stay solid indicates to me that it is at their end.

Mike

wmschultz

07-06-07, 01:00 PM

Joseph Clark

07-06-07, 01:02 PM

I was an overclocker when people were using petiers to cool their processors. I was always worried about condensate. Then came water cooling. Unlike the store bought units today, my heatsinks were custom made from copper blocks by a toolmaker in my employ. I used a 1 gallon tank with 2 pumps. One pump circulated distilled water through 2 external heatsinks cooled by peltier units. The other pumped water through the PCs. A Micrologix PLC kept the pumps, power supply and peltiers running at the appropriate times. The water in the tank was kept at 20 C. The system could get down to 11C with 2 PCs running. There were no fans in my systems. The cooler was kept in a closet in the basement with the hoses through the floor. The first PC was a 600 meg Celeron (a disabled Pentium) that ran at 1.2 gig (it ran at 900 meg on air). It was very stable and ran until 2 gig processors were available. Over time the heatsinks began to leak so I quit using the system. I am now rethinking the process. It would be nice to remove the fans from my projector and keep it very quiet and very cool while viewing HD. Unfortunately the WAF was so bad, I scrapped most of the hardware.

Walt

That's a serious committment to overclocking, Walt. I've never gone beyond air cooling. Anything more and it's just too much hassle for me. My latest PC system has an Intel E4300, stock speed of 1.8 GHZ. That little chip really lives up to its hype. It overclocked to 3.0 GHZ with the standard heatsink/fan. I read one report in which the chip was run without a heat sink at all, under load, and it took some time for the system to error out.

On a sour note, my Asus mobo replacement from Newegg has been rescheduled for delivery Monday by UPS. Argggghhh! No unRaid for me this weekend.

MoInSTL

07-06-07, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the link, MO. I will check those tools out. My problem is a gradual degradation to the point the modem has to be power reset to restore connectivity. It works initially but over several hours the connection degrades to where pings showed over 50% packet loss. That and the fact that the DSL light doesn't stay solid indicates to me that it is at their end.

Mike

I had numerous problems staying synched once it got warmer. It took many calls and on premise visits from AT&T to finally resolve it. The end result was they moved me over to another line. Moving to another pair did not work. They also checked everything pole-to-pole, ran new lines from my house to the pole, installed a homerun (eliminates need for filters) in a new NID and replaced the modem. I kept getting knocked of by high line attenuation. Does your modem allow you to look at your stats? If so, you want low a low number for attenuation and a high number for SN (signal to noise ratio). If your line attenuation is 60dB or higher you lose or have spotty connectivity. That number should be fairly steady. If you refresh and it's all over the place that's a good indication it's on their side too. The address for my SpeedStream is 192.168.0.1 You may want to look yours up if you haven't already and check it out.

MoInSTL

07-06-07, 01:50 PM

That's a serious committment to overclocking, Walt. I've never gone beyond air cooling. Anything more and it's just too much hassle for me. My latest PC system has an Intel E4300, stock speed of 1.8 GHZ. That little chip really lives up to its hype. It overclocked to 3.0 GHZ with the standard heatsink/fan. I read one report in which the chip was run without a heat sink at all, under load, and it took some time for the system to error out.

On a sour note, my Asus mobo replacement from Newegg has been rescheduled for delivery Monday by UPS. Argggghhh! No unRaid for me this weekend.

What a bummer about the delivery. Standard stuff they ship from Memphis, the rest from CA. Sounds like it's coming from CA.

I remember peltiers :D and toyed with running H2O but it would have been a costly mistake if I made one. I didn't start off using a zillion fans on my old PC, it just kept growing. I even had HD fans. I bought a hole saw for case fans and took it to work as there was construction going on next door. I had no further use for the hole saw after the case holes were removed so I traded the saw for the cuts from a construction worker. He aslo filed the edges for me. I put two 120mm "quiet" fans in one side!

Edit: the fans don't look very big, but that's because it's a very tall server panel.

eyezen

07-06-07, 01:54 PM

FWIW

There was programming on 4-2 today at ~12:45 pm this afternoon (7/6/07).

Didn't watch long enough to see what is was but it was there...

John Kotches

07-06-07, 02:29 PM