And where do you play at now Scott?
In Bill's basement?


Yeah, Scott...I also gave some thought to anyone wanting/needing an HD antenna already had an HDTV. I figured their logic was to expose, or attempt to expose HD users to all the add-one (audio, etc) available through the merchant.

Still, the crux of advertising dollars is to bring the customer through the door. SR had to get more through the door than comparable $$'s spent on institutional advertising, radio...TV...etc.

Consider also, the timing....exploiting Charter. SR is a heavy KSDK sponsor...it wouldn't surprise me if Gannett ponied up some bucks to support this one.

Of course, getting them in the door, is only the beginning. Hopefully they had the sense to set up the giveaway at a point well within their showroom. I've seen these sort of things done outside the front door.

And where do you play at now Scott?

Unfortunately I have not been playing much. The last few times I played were in and around O'Fallon, MO. I don't have a regular course. Where do you play?

Nice to see CBS doing todays Buick Invitational in HD. Golf is one of those sports that really benefits from HD.

Scott

John,
What you described, is really all I see, in live time. Only when I go back and break 1 second down into 75-100 frames is where I can see all that weird stuff.
I watched that same segment live, when it was on, and it was just a momentary blip. As a note, I watched it live via OTA. I had recorded it on both 622's, one from the SAT local, and the other OTA. I saw that dropout live, and it was on both recordings.

A second only has 60 frames at 720p60. So you are going down to a level that's sub frame.

Are you using a CRT display by chance? That could be raster that you're seeing in there. I'm using an FPTV@1080p and I don't see these issues anywhere near as severely.

Also; different hardware might have different results. I'm watching on a Dish622 with an OTA antenna.


Best,

Scott I used to play at old hickory before I lost my job now what ever is cheap.Old hickory is really a great course hard but nice with great people working there.

Chazb,

Let's take this to PM.

Scott

A second only has 60 frames at 720p60. So you are going down to a level that's sub frame.
Are you using a CRT display by chance? That could be raster that you're seeing in there. I'm using an FPTV@1080p and I don't see these issues anywhere near as severely.
Also; different hardware might have different results. I'm watching on a Dish622 with an OTA antenna.
Best,
John,
I think they are CRT's. They are 2001 Sony RPTV's. I'm pretty sure Doug once told me they're CRT.

I am using the same, 622/OTA. Maybe that skip button is 1/4 frame? Using the 622 remote, while in pause, I am pressing the yellow skip-forward button. I just figured it was one frame per press, but have no basis for that, other than it seemed logical to me. :o I do know, both the 622's and TV's is set at 1080i/16:9, if that makes any difference.

Ken, if you talking about the Sony in your screencaps, it is for sure a CRT.

Scott

For those that have cancelled charter and have all three services internet ,phone and tv and you choose to keep the internet and phone what kind of hit have you taken in pricing or can you still get a deal.

For those that have cancelled charter and have all three services internet ,phone and tv and you choose to keep the internet and phone what kind of hit have you taken in pricing or can you still get a deal.

You should be able to get a deal, regardless of your previous status (as long as you keep at least 2 services).

I pay $29.99 for the unlimited phone (+ ~$11 in taxes) and $39.99 for 5Mbps internet. I had been in a 6 month plan for $29.99 and $29.99 (3Mbps service) but when my 6 months was up, I just called in and they gave me 12 months at these rates (and 5Mbps service).

I was watching the Blues on CW11 via my OTA, all looked great except the picture was not full screen, I checked my other channels and 5-1 was coming in ful screen. Well in the mean time I made a run to pick up dinner, and at the restaraunt low andf behold its playing on a 50" in full screen, I couldn't be sure but I think it was Directv.... How does that work? Does Directv do some fooling with the signal?

john

:confused:

Check through your tv's settings, you should be able to get it stretched that way. Its not really a true HD signal though, so it wont look that great.

They will beat Nashville some day.

Check through your tv's settings, you should be able to get it stretched that way. Its not really a true HD signal though, so it wont look that great.

They will beat Nashville some day.


Kris - Channel 4-1, 5-1, 11-2 and 2-1 are fullscreen, I have the option to change to aspect, 1:1, zoom, etc... So it must be DTV then?

Ok, I don't understand this regarding Charter. Tonights Blues game was not a HD broadcast, but the picture on Charter 781 (the channel 11 HD channel) is much clearer than picture on regular channel 11, (but not full frame, I understand that part). Likewise the Winter X games on ESPN is not HD, but picture on Charter 773 (the ESPN HD channel) is also much clearer that regular ESPN channel 35. Why is this?

I was watching the Blues on CW11 via my OTA, all looked great except the picture was not full screen, I checked my other channels and 5-1 was coming in ful screen. Well in the mean time I made a run to pick up dinner, and at the restaraunt low andf behold its playing on a 50" in full screen, I couldn't be sure but I think it was Directv.... How does that work? Does Directv do some fooling with the signal?

john

:confused:

You were likely watching the digital 11.1 at home. There are bars on the sides so the picture is not distorted. At the restaurant they probably were showing Directv analog channel 11 so that it would fill the screen by stretching.

Scott

Ok, I don't understand this regarding Charter. Tonights Blues game was not a HD broadcast, but the picture on Charter 781 (the channel 11 HD channel) is much clearer than picture on regular channel 11, (but not full frame, I understand that part). Likewise the Winter X games on ESPN is not HD, but picture on Charter 773 (the ESPN HD channel) is also much clearer that regular ESPN channel 35. Why is this?

It is likely the difference between digital and analog. You must have a digital Tv right?

Scott

Is there any way to hook up three tv's so you can access recorded programs from all three? I have a moxibox and moximate, but my wife would like to access programs from a third tv. Is this possible?

It is likely the difference between digital and analog. You must have a digital Tv right?

Scott
Yes. My further question is why can Charter not broadcast their SD signal on the channel 784 (channel 4 HD)? Although it wouldn't be HD at least it would be a better picture quality than regular channel 4.

Yes. My further question is why can Charter not broadcast their SD signal on the channel 784 (channel 4 HD)? Although it wouldn't be HD at least it would be a better picture quality than regular channel 4.

Someone with more technical knowledge will have to chime in here.

Basically Charter is showing the SD version on 784 but it is converted to digital.

Are you equating "full screen" with "better" picture quality?

Scott

Is there any way to hook up three tv's so you can access recorded programs from all three? I have a moxibox and moximate, but my wife would like to access programs from a third tv. Is this possible?

I would think you could split the signal to the 3rd tv. I've never seen Moxi box, but don't they have regular coax cable outputs in addition to the HDMI/DVI etc.?

Scott

Someone with more technical knowledge will have to chime in here.

Basically Charter is showing the SD version on 784 but it is converted to digital.

Are you equating "full screen" with "better" picture quality?

Scott
No, often on the Charter HD channels we get a non-HD picture (ie grey bars on the left and right and picture quality not HD but still better than the picture quality on the "regular" channel-for example the news or some other SD broadcast. ANd right now Charter is showing nothing but a message on 784 that says "see our regular channel 4"

Chuck, Are you saying that if a program is not HD channel 784 shows nothing? And, that you would prefer they at least show SD on 784 with the side bars?

Scott

[QUOTE=Scott Tucker]Chuck, Are you saying that if a program is not HD channel 784 shows nothing? And, that you would prefer they at least show SD on 784 with the side bars?

Scott[/QUOTE

Since CHarter and Belo are having their standoff Charter channel 784 is not broadcasting, you are probably aware of this. I am suggesting that in the mean time until they get this settled, a SD picture on channel 784 is better than the lower quality picture on regular channel 4. It's not HD, but its better than regular channel 4.

OK, now I get it Chuck. I did not know 784 was CBS HD. I can't answer you question even though I now understand what your asking. Sorry.

Scott

Since CHarter and Belo are having their standoff Charter channel 784 is not broadcasting, you are probably aware of this. I am suggesting that in the mean time until they get this settled, a SD picture on channel 784 is better than the lower quality picture on regular channel 4. It's not HD, but its better than regular channel 4.

When you tune your digital cable box to channel 4 you are receiving a digital signal. It it the best quality signal Charter can currently offer for KMOV. It is SD, but it's not analog. It is digital (QAM).

Unfortunately I have not been playing much. The last few times I played were in and around O'Fallon, MO. I don't have a regular course. Where do you play?

Nice to see CBS doing todays Buick Invitational in HD. Golf is one of those sports that really benefits from HD.

Scott


Can't go wrong with the Golf Club Of Wentzville....I agree on the golf in HD. Now if we could just get Kelly Tilghman in HD life would be good.

Is there any way to hook up three tv's so you can access recorded programs from all three? I have a moxibox and moximate, but my wife would like to access programs from a third tv. Is this possible?

See my post here...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9606300&&#post9606300

Let me know if you have any questions

Scott,
Question unrelated to the current topic....
IIRC, you're getting the STL DT's via SAT on DTV, yes?
Does DTV keep the SD locals available once you get the DT's over SAT, or once they spot a DT local does it replace the SD?

When you tune your digital cable box to channel 4 you are receiving a digital signal. It it the best quality signal Charter can currently offer for KMOV. It is SD, but it's not analog. It is digital (QAM).
Dave,
I'm confused...go figure :o
Does this go back to the incorrect use of SD and HD? In that, all HD must be DT, but not all DT is HD. shouldn't he correct references be AT/DT and SD/HD :)

Now I'm getting confused too :)

My main point was that any signal Charter could currently provide on 784 would be no better that what they currently provide on 4. 480i QAM delivery of the source material (presumably provided by KMOV via a studio link).

.

Chuck,
If charter broadcasts it on 4 or 784 it will look the same. QAM digital feed.

If you want a cheap alternative and your HDTV has an ATSC tuner built in. Get yourself an antenna so you can receive all the local HD over the air!

I did a search and it seems that the hr 20 does not work to well is this right should people be waiting to go to direct tv because of this?If I cant get the hr 20 to record the young and restless everyday my wife might end my life and does the ota work and will it record ota I am still up in the air on keeping charter and getting direct tv.Directs promotion ends in a few days and I know there will be a new one but it might not be as good.

Scott,
Question unrelated to the current topic....
IIRC, you're getting the STL DT's via SAT on DTV, yes?
Does DTV keep the SD locals available once you get the DT's over SAT, or once they spot a DT local does it replace the SD?

Ken,
I get the locals in SD via D*, but for DTV I use OTA. I don't have mpeg 4 yet.

Scott

I did a search and it seems that the hr 20 does not work to well is this right should people be waiting to go to direct tv because of this?If I cant get the hr 20 to record the young and restless everyday my wife might end my life and does the ota work and will it record ota I am still up in the air on keeping charter and getting direct tv.Directs promotion ends in a few days and I know there will be a new one but it might not be as good.

The whole idea of having the HR20 is so you don't need a OTA antenna. Yes, she will be able to record TYATR and in HD. :)

Scott

Can't go wrong with the Golf Club Of Wentzville....I agree on the golf in HD. Now if we could just get Kelly Tilghman in HD life would be good.

Yeah, getting The Golf Channel and Kelly in HD will be sweet! :D

Scott

I know but I want the ota as a backup just in case because I want to live to play golf again.

LOL, wow, she is hardcore huh? Wmschultz will be able to chime in and answer the question for you. Bill, can Chazb get OTA from the HR20?

Scott

For those that have cancelled charter and have all three services internet ,phone and tv and you choose to keep the internet and phone what kind of hit have you taken in pricing or can you still get a deal.

If you choose to go with D* and complain about no package for phone/Internet, they should give you a few dollars off. I am getting $10 a month off my bill for a year. E* may be persuaded as well.

LOL, wow, she is hardcore huh? Wmschultz will be able to chime in and answer the question for you. Bill, can Chazb get OTA from the HR20?

Scott

OTA for the H20 is enabled now Scott.

Chazb, as Mo stated above and I confirmed on DBS Talk.com that you can use OTA via the HR20. So, we may get to play some golf after all come spring. :)

Scott

FYI,

Ever since I got the 6.3b update, I have yet to have any audio or video drop outs. Also, audio/video sync seems to be better. I am loving life again at least until I'm forced to go Mpeg4.

Scott

FYI,

Ever since I got the 6.3b update, I have yet to have any audio or video drop outs. Also, audio/video sync seems to be better. I am loving life again at least until I'm forced to go Mpeg4.

Scott

I forgot about brief video drops. Now that you mention it Scott, I no longer have those either. No audio drops since getting 6.3b for me as well.

BTW, anyone know why HR10-250's are selling for so freakin' much on Ebay? Some used ones are bringing $400 plus. I've seen NIB ones bring over $900. What gives?

Scott

Chazb,

Let's take this to PM.

Scott

Hey now,
If there's going to be a STL HDTV Golf outing I wanna be included...

Favorite courses are Tapawingo, Bear Creek and Links @ Dardenne.
Place to play on crappy days... Riverside (very cheap)

Dave

Chuck,
If charter broadcasts it on 4 or 784 it will look the same. QAM digital feed.
If you want a cheap alternative and your HDTV has an ATSC tuner built in. Get yourself an antenna so you can receive all the local HD over the air!

If Charter were to broadcast 4 on 784 I think it would look BETTER than the same old QAM feed. They would have to scale it to fit the 16:9 ratio and would probably send out 480p not 480i. I don't know about you guys but I am sure that Charter's scaler is a lot better than mine.

OTA is still the best picture. I have done A/B with Charter and D* but not E* in every case OTA was better even to these old eyes.

I play at Spence T Olen, Fox Creek, Far Oaks, and Stonewolf. Did all you golfers get the free (cart fee) round at Stonewolf for signing up on their website? How about a St. Lous AVS golf tournament. It would be the fastest way to get to know people.

Walt

Dave,

I was just thinking the same thing. We should have a Golf/Home Theater meet. Play golf in the PM watch a flick or two in the PM. Sounds like lots of fun. Who's in?

Scott

Walt, looks like were all starting to think the same way. We need to get something going come spring. :)

Scott

If you choose to go with D* and complain about no package for phone/Internet, they should give you a few dollars off. I am getting $10 a month off my bill for a year. E* may be persuaded as well.

Alright. I know this is a really stupid question that everyone knows the answer to but me but oh well here it goes...........

Why does everyone blockout the names of the companies?? D*, E*, C* etc

PS. Please don't attack

Thanks

Alright. I know this is a really stupid question that everyone knows the answer to but me but oh well here it goes...........

Why does everyone blockout the names of the companies?? D*, E*, C* etc

PS. Please don't attack

Thanks

What a stupid question! :eek: Just kidding, because it's quicker? Not really sure. Maybe because one person did it and the rest of us are sheep.

Scott

If Charter were to broadcast 4 on 784 I think it would look BETTER than the same old QAM feed. They would have to scale it to fit the 16:9 ratio and would probably send out 480p not 480i. I don't know about you guys but I am sure that Charter's scaler is a lot better than mine.

Agreed. My point was that its SD. And that OTA is a good option.

How about a St. Lous AVS golf tournament. It would be the fastest way to get to know people.

Now this sounds like a great idea. I like Tapawingo also. The only problem is that I am a horrific golfer so if you folks are hard core then I might be makin' some enemies. Otherwise if you can stand me....count me in!!

What a stupid question! :eek: Just kidding, because it's quicker? Not really sure. Maybe because one person did it and the rest of us are sheep.

Scott

Make sense ;)

Okay all you golfers. Which is higher/lower? Your signal strength or your golf score.

I hate to admit it, but my golf score, due to lack of playing, is now higher than my signal strength.

Scott

edited: changed handicap to score.

I suck at real golf -- but we could have a Tiger Woods online tournament and I may have a chance

I suck at real golf -- but we could have a Tiger Woods online tournament and I may have a chance

Hah, I suck at real and fake golf, but I'm up for anything! Sounds fun since I just got my xbox.

Scott

Sounds like we got some real sandbaggers in the crowd trying to set up everyone for the kill I guess the automatic presses start now. :rolleyes:

I did a search and it seems that the hr 20 does not work to well is this right should people be waiting to go to direct tv because of this?If I cant get the hr 20 to record the young and restless everyday my wife might end my life and does the ota work and will it record ota I am still up in the air on keeping charter and getting direct tv.Directs promotion ends in a few days and I know there will be a new one but it might not be as good.

I have delayed posting an update this week out of fear of jinxing it. :)

I have had the HR20 since Dec. 9 and have gone through every pre-release firmware update that became available (about once per week). This past week running ver. 11b is the first one where I have not had a single problem. No freezes and no lost recordings. I am using the sat HD locals rather than OTA since they are supposed to take less space on the recorder, but I haven't noticed any difference in quality when I have tried comparing the two.

They still have a few minor bugs to work out, but I think it is finally ready for prime time.

Mike

Speaking of KPLR issues, I just got around to watching my recording of Smallville and Supernatural from last Thursday night.

Smallville was a 4x3 upconvert for the entire show. It's annoying enough that they start the program in 4x3 so they can superimpose the local bug for the first 30 seconds or so. But they never flipped the switch back to HD when the bug went away. And since Smallville is shown letterboxed, what we got was 16x9, letterboxed inside 480i 4x3, vertically letterboxed inside 16x9 1080i. And since my HDTV is a 4x3 CRT that does the 16x9 squeeze, I got all that letterboxed AGAIN inside my 4x3 screen.

Supernatural was fine, thank heaven.

Greetings all,

I recently discovered this forum and would appreciate some antenna advice on receiving OTA analog and digital. I'm in northern Webster Groves (near Summit and Marshall). Here's the antennaweb data on the stations I'd like to pick up:

Antenna Call Chan Netwk Comp Miles Freq
Type Sign degrees
yellow-UHF KDNL-DT 30.1 ABC 166 1.7 31
" KPLR-DT 11.1 CW 164 2.3 26
" KSDK-DT 5.1 NBC 174 2.5 35
red-VHF KETC 9 PBS 201 9.1 9
" KMOV 4 CBS 159 5.6 4
" KSDK 5 NBC 174 2.5 5
" KPLR 11 CW 159 5.6 11
" KTVI 2 FOX 202 5.2 2
red-UHF KTVI-DT 2.1 FOX 202 5.2 43
" KDNL 30 ABC 166 1.7 30
blue-UHF KMOV-DT 4.1 CBS 159 5.6 56
violet-UHF KETC-DT 9.1 PBS 201 9.1 39

I am interested in getting both analog and digital because it may be a while before I finish assembling the HD components for the Windows MCE PC-based system I am putting together, and I will also be running a coax to a TV without an HD tuner. Also, we listen to a lot of FM and since my inside dipole rig is not working very well, the outside FM antenna would be a bonus.

My target stations are within 40 degrees of one another and all are within 10 miles of my location. I am a little surprised something in the "large directional" category is recommended by antennaweb for this location, but I want to get whatever I'll need to do the job and don't have problems with putting something big and/or ugly on the roof. (I'm not sure about the spouse's opinion on that, but I'll seek forgiveness rather than permission if there's an issue.) I don't have an attic option with this house. I'd like to stay away from a rotor. I currently have no antenna as we recently disconnected DishNetwork. I hope to use the coax and roof mount left from that installation with the new setup.

On the SolidSignal site, I found a "medium directional" UHF/VHF unit, the Winegard HD7080P, that is listed as having a 40 degree beamwidth. There is also a "large directional" unit, the Winegard PR7037 Prostar, which is listed as having a 35 degree beamwidth. Other large UHF/VHF antennas, including the Channel Master models, have narrower beamwidths.

Am I on the right track? Is the SolidSignal beamwidth information accurate/relevant? Would it make sense to select a medium directional antenna with wider beamwidth over a large directional unit in order to cover the 40 degree arc? Would I be better off to consider a two-antenna configuration and, if so, with what antennas? Any observations, thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Tom

Dave,

I was just thinking the same thing. We should have a Golf/Home Theater meet. Play golf in the PM watch a flick or two in the PM. Sounds like lots of fun. Who's in?

Scott

I'm in. Still a novice golfer though, you can expect 108-118 from me.

I'm in. Still a novice golfer though, you can expect 108-118 from me.

cool, another golfer. 118 is pretty good. What do you shoot on the back nine? :D

Scott

cool, another golfer. 118 is pretty good. What do you shoot on the back nine? :D

Scott

About 130. I'm getting petty tired by then and usually the sun has already set. :)

Alright. I know this is a really stupid question that everyone knows the answer to but me but oh well here it goes...........
Why does everyone blockout the names of the companies?? D*, E*, C* etc
PS. Please don't attack
Thanks
Scott is correct, as to the current use of *'s. As members join forums, and see the use, they naturally presume there's a reason, and follow suit.

Years ago, when BBS (bulletin board systems) began, it was considered outside the ethics of posting to use proper nouns...a person's name, or name of a company, etc., in a post. The forums were much smaller then, and only the regular members would know, who or what, the poster was referring to.

It was unheard-of to post your true-given name in any public forum. Thousands of posts, I signed, K*.

The asterisk is also used to emphasise a word, as in, "the picture had *great* quality."

Currently, the D*, C*, etc., is used out of habit, or simply because it is faster to type.

I just flipped on the golf tournament via CBS-HD OTA & there is about a 2 second sound delay - extremely annoying. Has anyone one else noticed this?

I'm an idiot. I forgot to switch my receiver's audio setting to the OTA input yesterday. Golf picture & sound is awesome OTA today. Looks like Tiger is about to work his magic again. I would love to see one of the young guys pull it out, but Tiger is in in their head.

I'm an idiot. I forgot to switch my receiver's audio setting to the OTA input yesterday. Golf picture & sound is awesome OTA today. Looks like Tiger is about to work his magic again. I would love to see one of the young guys pull it out, but Tiger is in in their head.

You don't use the same input for OTA and SAT? :confused:

Yeah, Tiger is going to be tough to beat coming in. I'm loving seeing Torrey Pines in HD.

Scott

Jim Nantz just announced that "every one" of the CBS Golf tournaments will be in HD this year. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott

That's a relief. I can sleep better when it is true 1080i. Nothing provides a better nap than hearing the
birds chirping out of the rear speakers.

Anyone receiving the digital locals (HD) over SAT via DTV in MPEG4 (HR20)....do the analog (SD) locals remain available??

Ok, I don't understand this regarding Charter. Tonights Blues game was not a HD broadcast, but the picture on Charter 781 (the channel 11 HD channel) is much clearer than picture on regular channel 11, (but not full frame, I understand that part). Likewise the Winter X games on ESPN is not HD, but picture on Charter 773 (the ESPN HD channel) is also much clearer that regular ESPN channel 35. Why is this?

OK, back to my original question from last night---they don't look the same as someone has suggested. The SD broadcast as viewed on the HD channel number is clearer and sharper than the picture quality on the SD channel. Why is this? :confused:

The signal on 781 is upconverted to 1080i by KPLR, 11 is not.

My target stations are within 40 degrees of one another and all are within 10 miles of my location. I am a little surprised something in the "large directional" category is recommended by antennaweb for this location, but I want to get whatever I'll need to do the job and don't have problems with putting something big and/or ugly on the roof. (I'm not sure about the spouse's opinion on that, but I'll seek forgiveness rather than permission if there's an issue.) I don't have an attic option with this house. I'd like to stay away from a rotor. I currently have no antenna as we recently disconnected DishNetwork. I hope to use the coax and roof mount left from that installation with the new setup.

On the SolidSignal site, I found a "medium directional" UHF/VHF unit, the Winegard HD7080P, that is listed as having a 40 degree beamwidth. There is also a "large directional" unit, the Winegard PR7037 Prostar, which is listed as having a 35 degree beamwidth. Other large UHF/VHF antennas, including the Channel Master models, have narrower beamwidths.

Am I on the right track? Is the SolidSignal beamwidth information accurate/relevant? Would it make sense to select a medium directional antenna with wider beamwidth over a large directional unit in order to cover the 40 degree arc? Would I be better off to consider a two-antenna configuration and, if so, with what antennas? Any observations, thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Tom

There are two stores in the area that may be better in terms of pricing.
Skywalker Communications
9390 Veterans Memorial Pkwy
O'Fallon, MO 63366
(800) 844-9555
(314) 272-8025
Fax (314) 272-8214

Antennas Direct
1699 West 5th Street - Suite F
Eureka, MO 63025
877-825-5572

You may want to check out the hardware forum for joined antennas. 40 degree difference...ouch! Did you check just for UHF or all of them? There is a radio button for displaying UHF only at antennaweb.org

I know Skywalker accepts returns and two CM 4221's may do the trick. They are 4 bay mid-range. Last time I checked they were a mere $20 each. I have not tried this as one works fine for me. I'd read up at the hardware forum here at AVS.

The signal on 781 is upconverted to 1080i by KPLR, 11 is not.
Thanks. I understaqnd that. Does CHarter do the upconversion or the broadcasting station? :)

Anyone receiving the digital locals (HD) over SAT via DTV in MPEG4 (HR20)....do the analog (SD) locals remain available??

Yep. They sure do. It is quite annoying for those of use with a H20 or HR20.

You get 3 channel 2s, 4s, 5s, and 30s if you have the OTA hooked up.

Thanks. I understaqnd that. Does CHarter do the upconversion or the broadcasting station? :)

KPLR does it. It is like 11-1 OTA. It is upconverted.

KPLR does it. It is like 11-1 OTA. It is upconverted.


Your opinion on the hr 20 sir has it gotten better and do you get lockups or freezes and how about ease of use to record and setup.

I like the HR20. All of my recordings have been successful. I have it in my main viewing area. There are
problems, but the TIVO's had problems when they first hit the street. I have no problem
recommending one.
I actually think I am getting a second one some time this week.

Of course, I have only paid $22 for the one I have, and I think I might be paying $22 for the other one I am getting.
So, it is easier for me to let the little things go.

EDIT: If you go to DBSforum.com I use the same screen name. There is a lot of HR20 info there, too.
But it sounds like you have read about it somewhere already.

There is also a "large directional" unit, the Winegard PR7037 Prostar, which is listed as having a 35 degree beamwidth.
Be advised that the official way to measure beamwidth is at the -3 dB points, or 0.7 times the received voltage. The antenna doesn't stop receiving because a transmitter is outside the beamwidth, it just has less gain.

I'm going to guess that within 10 miles of the transmitters neither the beamwidth NOR the gain is going to matter that much. If it were me, in your location? I'd try the one Mo recommended for about $20.

Is there a direct phone number for retention, or do you have to go through the main number? Can you provide it? I'd like to let them know what I think about not having ABC and CBS in HD.

Is there a direct phone number for retention, or do you have to go through the main number? Can you provide it? I'd like to let them know what I think about not having ABC and CBS in HD.

I have heard other say all they did was speak "cancel service" into the automated menu system.

Scott

Is there a direct phone number for retention, or do you have to go through the main number? Can you provide it? I'd like to let them know what I think about not having ABC and CBS in HD.

Dial 1-888-Get-Charter, listen to the prompts, and press the button for "cancel service". You will get a fast, courteous, understanding friend on the line faster than you can say D*.

Also, here is my response to your question on the Moxi thread from yesterday ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9606300&&#post9606300 (http://)


What a stupid question! Just kidding, because it's quicker? Not really sure. Maybe because one person did it and the rest of us are sheep.

Scott

PS. The "*" was for you Scott :)

DLSDO,

Thank Y*

Scott

DLSDO,

Thank Y*

Scott


LOL.


BTW, my understanding of the *s is becuase E* = Echostar. People started typing D* for DirecTV, but it doesn't make sense, really. After a while, people came to accept D* for DirecTV. I remember many complaining about it on the TiVoCommunity forum.

There are two stores in the area that may be better in terms of pricing.
Skywalker Communications
9390 Veterans Memorial Pkwy
O'Fallon, MO 63366
(800) 844-9555
(314) 272-8025
Fax (314) 272-8214

Antennas Direct
1699 West 5th Street - Suite F
Eureka, MO 63025
877-825-5572

You may want to check out the hardware forum for joined antennas. 40 degree difference...ouch! Did you check just for UHF or all of them? There is a radio button for displaying UHF only at antennaweb.org

I know Skywalker accepts returns and two CM 4221's may do the trick. They are 4 bay mid-range. Last time I checked they were a mere $20 each. I have not tried this as one works fine for me. I'd read up at the hardware forum here at AVS.

I second Mo's recommendations. I'm in Webster as well, and have experimented with over a dozen makes and types of antenna's (amateur radio operator). My spread is from 140 degrees to 195 degrees, a fifty degree spread from KMOV to KETC. Counting WRBU at 205 degrees, that makes a sixty degree spread... KDNL, ony 4 km/2.5 miles away blasts me with a 126 DbU/2047 mv/M signal, and the other majors in Shrewsbury are not much lower in level. Front end overload means amplifiers of any kind are a no-no. The 4221 or the Antennas Direct DB4 will both work well. I have also bought directly from both places, and have had good experiences. I have two DB4's indoors as interior antennas, facing south, (flatter back for wall mounting when original mounting hardware is removed), and both pick up WRBU-DT! For outdoor use, the CM 4221 is superior. Just mount it on a simple 5 foot push up pole facing south (vent pipe mount from RS), aim it at maybe 185 degrees from your location, and turn it east until you lose KETC/WRBU. 185 is halfway between KMOV and KETC/KTVI. At that point, turn it 5 degrees back west to assure lock in bad weather, and you're done (assuming all other precautions, grounding, etc, etc..).

Mounting an outdoor antenna is a two man job for safety. Stay away from the power and phone lines.

The RS U-75R also works ok, and it's $25. Very simple to mount outdoors. Did that for Mom in St. Louis Hills, right under the towers.

Greetings all,

I recently discovered this forum and would appreciate some antenna advice on receiving OTA analog and digital. I'm in northern Webster Groves (near Summit and Marshall). Here's the antennaweb data on the stations I'd like to pick up:

Antenna Call Chan Netwk Comp Miles Freq
Type Sign degrees
yellow-UHF KDNL-DT 30.1 ABC 166 1.7 31
" KPLR-DT 11.1 CW 164 2.3 26
" KSDK-DT 5.1 NBC 174 2.5 35
red-VHF KETC 9 PBS 201 9.1 9
" KMOV 4 CBS 159 5.6 4
" KSDK 5 NBC 174 2.5 5
" KPLR 11 CW 159 5.6 11
" KTVI 2 FOX 202 5.2 2
red-UHF KTVI-DT 2.1 FOX 202 5.2 43
" KDNL 30 ABC 166 1.7 30
blue-UHF KMOV-DT 4.1 CBS 159 5.6 56
violet-UHF KETC-DT 9.1 PBS 201 9.1 39

I am interested in getting both analog and digital because it may be a while before I finish assembling the HD components for the Windows MCE PC-based system I am putting together, and I will also be running a coax to a TV without an HD tuner. Also, we listen to a lot of FM and since my inside dipole rig is not working very well, the outside FM antenna would be a bonus.

My target stations are within 40 degrees of one another and all are within 10 miles of my location. I am a little surprised something in the "large directional" category is recommended by antennaweb for this location, but I want to get whatever I'll need to do the job and don't have problems with putting something big and/or ugly on the roof. (I'm not sure about the spouse's opinion on that, but I'll seek forgiveness rather than permission if there's an issue.) I don't have an attic option with this house. I'd like to stay away from a rotor. I currently have no antenna as we recently disconnected DishNetwork. I hope to use the coax and roof mount left from that installation with the new setup.

On the SolidSignal site, I found a "medium directional" UHF/VHF unit, the Winegard HD7080P, that is listed as having a 40 degree beamwidth. There is also a "large directional" unit, the Winegard PR7037 Prostar, which is listed as having a 35 degree beamwidth. Other large UHF/VHF antennas, including the Channel Master models, have narrower beamwidths.

Am I on the right track? Is the SolidSignal beamwidth information accurate/relevant? Would it make sense to select a medium directional antenna with wider beamwidth over a large directional unit in order to cover the 40 degree arc? Would I be better off to consider a two-antenna configuration and, if so, with what antennas? Any observations, thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Tom

On the FM, a dedicated, seperate, outdoor FM antenna is your best option. With new cable to match. Sorry.

Agreed. My point was that its SD. And that OTA is a good option.



Now this sounds like a great idea. I like Tapawingo also. The only problem is that I am a horrific golfer so if you folks are hard core then I might be makin' some enemies. Otherwise if you can stand me....count me in!!


This does sound like a great idea.....I'm pretty new to the forums but enjoy a round of golf....especially with many refreshments and cart girls....

OK, back to my original question from last night---they don't look the same as someone has suggested. The SD broadcast as viewed on the HD channel number is clearer and sharper than the picture quality on the SD channel. Why is this? :confused:

I get the impression that Charter degrades PQ on some SD channels (those under 100, as far as I can tell) through compression, while leaving every channel above 100, including the HD channels, relatively less compressed, thereby creating better picture quality.

On the FM, a dedicated, seperate, outdoor FM antenna is your best option. With new cable to match. Sorry.

Thanks MO, Dan, PinkSplice for the advice. It looks like I can pick up both a 4221 and an outdoor FM antenna at Skywalkers. I think I will try an inside UHF/VHF antenna while I'm trying to get the PC, tuners and antenna to talk to each other, and worry about adding outside VHF later. Also PinkSplice thanks for the tips on aiming.

Tom

Thanks MO, Dan, PinkSplice for the advice. It looks like I can pick up both a 4221 and an outdoor FM antenna at Skywalkers. I think I will try an inside UHF/VHF antenna while I'm trying to get the PC, tuners and antenna to talk to each other, and worry about adding outside VHF later. Also PinkSplice thanks for the tips on aiming.

Tom

I forgot to add my usual note about tilt. Try tilting the roof mounted antenna up. I heard 3-5 degrees is recommended but mine is more like 20 degrees (if not more). I have multi-path issues so the tilt helps a lot. Others here have said this recommendation helped them as well. Just start off with a few degrees and take it from there.

Let us know what worked for you.

Edit: You want to see if there are any FM stations near you. If so, an inline FM trap from Radio Shack can help. I don't know of an antennaweb type site for this. Instead I used Google for my zip code.

Anybody in St. Peters able to get CBS HD in OTA. I bought a $40 Phillips amplified indoor antenna but nothing. I did borrow my friends ATI OTA Tuner card and hooked up that antenna a while back and got it in. But then I moved it for some crazy reason and can't get it back. I can't even get it with the mammoth antenna we have in the attic. I guess I'll just pray when Sunday comes, 784 will magically come in. Big thanks to Charter and Bel Corp!!

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9530192#post9530192) is a link to the old thread where wonderstud1000 used a Radio Shack U75R (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&sr=1&origkw=VHF+antenna&kw=vhf+antenna&parentPage=search) ($24) with good results in St. Peters.

Good luck,
Token

Anybody in St. Peters able to get CBS HD in OTA. I bought a $40 Phillips amplified indoor antenna but nothing. I did borrow my friends ATI OTA Tuner card and hooked up that antenna a while back and got it in. But then I moved it for some crazy reason and can't get it back. I can't even get it with the mammoth antenna we have in the attic. I guess I'll just pray when Sunday comes, 784 will magically come in. Big thanks to Charter and Bel Corp!!

I didn't try today but it was fine last night. I recorded Cold Case.

Edit: I use an outdoor DB8 Antenna.

I just switched from Charter to D* last week. So far, knock on wood, one week in and no problems with the H20.

This is also my first time expirementing with OTA HD as my TV is an "HDTV monitor" and has no atsc tuner.

I am using a huge old attic antenna that was there when I bought the house. After hooking it up I can pick up 2.1, 4.1, 5.1 and 5.2...no go for any of the PBS's, 11's or abc. I might buy an amp and see if I can get the rest.

Also, antennaweb ahsn't worked well for me at all.

I think the OTA channels are pretty sweet, I am surprised how good they look. They are slightly better than D* local HD's. Barely noticable. In fact I didn't even see a difference until I was watching the PGA-thingy on Saturday.

Thank goodness for unencrypted networks. Mine is down but I found one in the neighborhood. First time I've seen it. :)

The Buick was awesome yesterday. They all went into the tank when Tiger eagled 9. They still need to worship him. Since he turned pro, 5th place gets as much as 1st play BTW (before tiger woods :D ).

I am up for a round. What's this about spring. I have a cover and heater. I will play if the temp is 30 with no wind. If the wind is blowing, 40 is my limit. :p

Automatic presses don't start until I am 2 down. :cool:

Speaking of caddies. There is a club in Detroit called the Landing Strip (like PTs). I had a friend who rep'd a robot company in the area. He invited me several times to play in the tournament. I never made it. The pictures of the caddies were teriffic. :eek: Now its too late. I don't notice those kinds of caddies any more and when I do, its hard .......to remember why I enjoyed it so much.

Walt

MoinSTL

My Yagi is pointed a few degrees above the horizontal and I got much better reception with the slight tilt then before I had the tilt.

Cheers,

Well, sorry it has been a while I was out of town. But for informative purposes, I gave up on a 3rd split for my current antenna in Ofallon, IL and bought a DB4 from antennasdirect. I took it to the attic and had no problem finding signals, I did find if I raised it by about 5 feet (lucky to have a tall attic) then the signal strength was much better. I hung it by two clothes hangers, I will be returning the $20 antenna mount. I am actually using the new DB4 for my split signal to 2 receivers and the old antenna left to the remaining receiver as the new DB4 seems to have better signal. I know this was the "weak way out" (thanks Ken), but it worked for me and for anyone curious DB4 worked perfect just North of Ofallon, IL. I don't know my elevation but would not have wanted to be lower based on the difference that 5 feet made.

Doug calibrated my new Panny plasma last week before he left town. I am more astounded with the results than on my NEC plasma. He told me the Panny would get a better picture simply because the current technology is better than when my NEC was made. I still highly recommend calibration for anyone on the fence. My wife walked into the room when Doug was finished and Doug and I had American Idol on (it was the best HD on at the time, no offense to those who like it, Doug included). My wife said "Wow, it looks like that girl is standing in the corner singing." This was even in the Dish HD local which has been documented here to have slightly lower PQ than the OTA (I agree). My wife has grown to notice the slight difference and she said "and that is even on the Sat local instead of the antenna." At any rate, I could not be happier with our current PQ and would again refer anyone even slightly interested to Doug and strongly urge them to have their display calibrated. I am having a few friends over Sunday and can't wait to see if I get any comments.

You don't use the same input for OTA and SAT? :confused:

Yeah, Tiger is going to be tough to beat coming in. I'm loving seeing Torrey Pines in HD.

Scott

The way my receiver is set up, I use "TV/SAT" for audio via Charter & another input for audio via OTA.

Dial 1-800-Get-Charter, listen to the prompts, and press the button for "cancel service". You will get a fast, courteous, understanding friend on the line faster than you can say D*.


It's 1-888 (not 800).

It's 1-888 (not 800).

Oops. Good catch. Edit done

I'm in on the golf outing if invited. I shoot high 80s/low 90s, but haven't played since November.

Perhaps we could get Channel 5 to cover it so it would be on the HD news. They could tab it..."actual definition." Who's organizing this thing anyway?

Please tell me the golfers here also use lastminutegolfer.com

It's 1-888 (not 800).

210 - 220...what ever it takes.

could somebody clear something up for me? I'm still new to D*....

They broadcast FSNMW-HD games on 95 or 96 right? I thought last Friday's game was in HD, but I couldn't find it. Were they just doing that for Cards games and not Blues games? Did I miss something?

could somebody clear something up for me? I'm still new to D*....

They broadcast FSNMW-HD games on 95 or 96 right? I thought last Friday's game was in HD, but I couldn't find it. Were they just doing that for Cards games and not Blues games? Did I miss something?
They don't broadcast ALL FSNMW-HD on 95. If there is a higher profile game in another market, or a Basketball game, sometimes hockey isn't carried. I think it also has to do with the origination of the broadcast (ie FSNMW or FSN-Southwest).

For a few games the blues were on 95. Unfortunately, 95 won't stay in your guide, so you may just have to tune in to find out.
Dug

I'm in on the golf outing if invited. I shoot high 80s/low 90s, but haven't played since November.

Perhaps we could get Channel 5 to cover it so it would be on the HD news. They could tab it..."actual definition." Who's organizing this thing anyway?

Please tell me the golfers here also use lastminutegolfer.com

Well I can only speak for myself but why put old fatmen in HD and a widescreen when a two inch black and white will work J/K. :rolleyes:

LOL.


BTW, my understanding of the *s is becuase E* = Echostar. People started typing D* for DirecTV, but it doesn't make sense, really. After a while, people came to accept D* for DirecTV. I remember many complaining about it on the TiVoCommunity forum.

Also, at the time, P*=Primestar, and A*=Alphastar. With DTV being used for digital TV, DirecTV had no good abbreviation. (Or USSB for that matter, but I don't remember anyone abbreviating that.)

Can any of you point me to a technically savvy Sat installer for HD Dish, FTA, OTA in West County. Redirects to appropriate threads/site appreciated.

Wow! Droptheremote is going to come out of hibernation to find he is in The Golf Channel Forums. :)

Scott

I'm in on the golf outing if invited. I shoot high 80s/low 90s, but haven't played since November.

Perhaps we could get Channel 5 to cover it so it would be on the HD news. They could tab it..."actual definition." Who's organizing this thing anyway?

Please tell me the golfers here also use lastminutegolfer.com

I just wanted to say thanks for being the "organizer." :D

Scott

Don't forget the Cards games will be on KSDK this year, too.

OK I'm confused. I've had it with Charter. Spent over an hour on the phone with them the other day trying to figure out why a couple of my HD channels don't get the sound. I haven't watched CSI(any of them) or any of the other shows on 4 that I normally do as I got so use to watching them in HD that I can't bare to watch the SD feed of them. I'll catch up when they run them again over summer.

Anyway, I called DTV up and asked which of my local channels they cary in HD. They replied Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC. What about PBS and CW? The csr said that with some update that he thought was out, I should be able to pick those up with an OTA antenna attached to the box and could record those stations as well with the dvr. He couldn't say for sure if that were the case so I figured I'd ask here before I call to give Charter the good news that I'm taking my $150 a month elsewhere.

thanks

OK I'm confused. I've had it with Charter. Spent over an hour on the phone with them the other day trying to figure out why a couple of my HD channels don't get the sound. I haven't watched CSI(any of them) or any of the other shows on 4 that I normally do as I got so use to watching them in HD that I can't bare to watch the SD feed of them. I'll catch up when they run them again over summer.

Anyway, I called DTV up and asked which of my local channels they cary in HD. They replied Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC. What about PBS and CW? The csr said that with some update that he thought was out, I should be able to pick those up with an OTA antenna attached to the box and could record those stations as well with the dvr. He couldn't say for sure if that were the case so I figured I'd ask here before I call to give Charter the good news that I'm taking my $150 a month elsewhere.

thanks

You can connect an antenna to any HD Directv box to pull in the locals in HD. Make the switch, and you won't regret it.

Scott

OK I'm confused. I've had it with Charter. Spent over an hour on the phone with them the other day trying to figure out why a couple of my HD channels don't get the sound. I haven't watched CSI(any of them) or any of the other shows on 4 that I normally do as I got so use to watching them in HD that I can't bare to watch the SD feed of them. I'll catch up when they run them again over summer.

Anyway, I called DTV up and asked which of my local channels they cary in HD. They replied Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC. What about PBS and CW? The csr said that with some update that he thought was out, I should be able to pick those up with an OTA antenna attached to the box and could record those stations as well with the dvr. He couldn't say for sure if that were the case so I figured I'd ask here before I call to give Charter the good news that I'm taking my $150 a month elsewhere.

thanks

yes, the rep is correct.

OK I'm confused. I've had it with Charter. Spent over an hour on the phone with them the other day trying to figure out why a couple of my HD channels don't get the sound. I haven't watched CSI(any of them) or any of the other shows on 4 that I normally do as I got so use to watching them in HD that I can't bare to watch the SD feed of them. I'll catch up when they run them again over summer.

Anyway, I called DTV up and asked which of my local channels they cary in HD. They replied Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC. What about PBS and CW? The csr said that with some update that he thought was out, I should be able to pick those up with an OTA antenna attached to the box and could record those stations as well with the dvr. He couldn't say for sure if that were the case so I figured I'd ask here before I call to give Charter the good news that I'm taking my $150 a month elsewhere.

thanks

The HR20 that is out is the new D* HD DVR. There was a release that came out before Christmas
that enabled the OTA input so you can now get the local channels via OTA in addition to the 4 big networks via SAT.

There was an update to the software last night, but that has nothing to do with anything in this conversation. It was a bug fix update with no new features.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Left Jeff, are you STL FAN?

I got my HR20 upgrade this weekend from Directv.
I was a little leary at first but I have to give Premier Communications credit for doing an excellent job.
The installer called 3 hours prior to confirm and showed up right on time.

I only added a HR20 so they only had to swap for a new Slimline dish and multswitch.
The whole process only took about 1 1/2 hours.

I haven't had a chance to use the HR20 much yet for recording but the guide speed is definitely pleasing ;)
It took me almost 2 hours to figure out how to program the remote to control the AV volume in TV mode :o
The on screem instructions weren't very clear.


Thanks for convicing me to take the plunge ;)

Token

Anybody in St. Peters able to get CBS HD in OTA. I bought a $40 Phillips amplified indoor antenna but nothing. I did borrow my friends ATI OTA Tuner card and hooked up that antenna a while back and got it in. But then I moved it for some crazy reason and can't get it back. I can't even get it with the mammoth antenna we have in the attic. I guess I'll just pray when Sunday comes, 784 will magically come in. Big thanks to Charter and Bel Corp!!

I have no problem at all. I would take that antenna back and go to Skywalker and get a better one for less money. I had mine mounted on the roof at my old house next to my dish. It was a small wing looking antenna and was only like 2ft wide and attached to a dish mount. I now live a block and a half away and threw rabbit ears on my TV and got ch 4. I did that as a hold over until I get my plasma and new surround sound done.

KDG### or anyone else, does Dish network do retention deals like D*? I have a buddy that just got a new 1080p set and I'm trying to convince him to get the VIP622 and at least the bronze package...He is balking at the monthly cost going up from what they are paying now. I saw on the E* site there is a $200 credit for new HD subs, can existing get this by threatening to leave?
Thanks
Dug

Left Jeff, are you STL FAN?


laugh..no..i saw that question on dbstalk as well. not me.

I wanted to answer him, but for whatever reason when I went to register an account my work computer's stupid security software wouldn't let me.

BTW, anyone know why HR10-250's are selling for so freakin' much on Ebay? Some used ones are bringing $400 plus. I've seen NIB ones bring over $900. What gives?

ScottWow. No kidding? I'm getting my 2 HR10-250s switched to HR20s in Thursday and only have to return one HR10 (I own the other). That $400 could cover exactly what I need to trade up to a camera lens I want. Guess I'll put it up for sale.

Wow. No kidding? I'm getting my 2 HR10-250s switched to HR20s in Thursday and only have to return one HR10 (I own the other). That $400 could cover exactly what I need to trade up to a camera lens I want. Guess I'll put it up for sale.

Absolutely, check fleabay. These things are selling like hotcakes for some reason. Good luck.

Scott

And the OTA HD feed going into the HR20 can be recorded using the dvr as well? Meaning those HD channels and subchannels that Dtv does not provide will show up in my programming guide and I can schedule shows to record?

Sorry for the questions, but you would not believe the day I've had with uninformed csr's from both Dtv and Charter. It's enough to make me not want to watch tv anymore.

Hall316,

AFAIK you the channels will show up and yes you can treat them like any other channel as far as recording. Don't take this as gospel however because I don't have one to check for you. You can find out fairly quickly by reading posts on DBSTALK.com.

Scott

And the OTA HD feed going into the HR20 can be recorded using the dvr as well? Meaning those HD channels and subchannels that Dtv does not provide will show up in my programming guide and I can schedule shows to record?

Sorry for the questions, but you would not believe the day I've had with uninformed csr's from both Dtv and Charter. It's enough to make me not want to watch tv anymore.


yes you can record ota channels..in fact you can record 2 ota channels at once...

Is anyone else not receiving a signal from KSDK OTA digital tonight? Everything else is crystal and I cannot get it.

Edit: I have a signal strength of 100 on 2 different antennas and 2 different E* receivers, but it won't pull in the channel?

Well, I guess I spoke to soon regarding audio/video dropouts with the HR10-250 Tivo on OTA 2.1 Fox KTVI. Ever since I got the 6.3b update, fox has been fine until tonights Prison Break and 24. The audio drop outs were very minor and nothing like it used to be with the 5 second dropouts. But, now I'm getting video breakups or pixelation. I hope it doesn't persist or I like others may have to go to the HR20 without Tivo.

Scott

Deuces,

KSDK is fine here in O'fallon, MO.

Scott

It is back here now too Scott, I don't know what was up, it was odd. Luckily nothing we record was on KSDK tonight, I just happened to flip by and notice, but all seems fine now, thanks.

I had a few breakups on fox with ota and a strong signal nothing too bad just the same with pixels popping up at various times.There is starting to be a pattern here with fox.

thanks everyone. I guess now I just have to decide between Dtv and Dish.

I've recently had nothing but trouble with Charter. Most recently they came to install a cable card on my Hitachi 42HDT79 and it is not picking up any channels, and I have been without TV since Saturday. Assuming they fix this problem, is there a way to get OTA HD and use my cable card? Since Charter does not currently have ABC (LOST is coming back) and CBS, I was hoping I could get them OTA.

Also, is anybody in Oakville receiving all local (Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC) channels with one antenna without a rotator. Thanks for any replies. I apologize if this is an extremely basic question, but I am REALLY new to all this.

I didn't get to check the exact times of all of the breakups I was seeing on FOX during Prison Break and 24, but of the ones I did check, I'd say they were occuring almost every 5 minutes, like clockwork.

Some of the breakups were only audio, but others had video issues as well.

FWIW, I'm viewing via OTA and an old D* Sony HD200 receiver.


I'll see what happens on House tonight.

I had some breakups and pixelization during 24 last night using HR20 and OTA.
I had to do a double take to see if I was watching the HR10 ;)

Strange,

Token

Absolutely, check fleabay. These things are selling like hotcakes for some reason. Good luck.

Scott

Supply and demand of course. The HR10-250 isn't in production anymore and people still want it. There are a few online retailers that have a supply of new-in-box units, but those will eventually dry up and then you're left with pre-owned models.

As long as there is still a desire for this model (I won't give my two up until I have a reason to do so... ie. good mpeg4 nationals), then there will still be a strong demand for it.

BTW, I haven't seen a new software update, but I'm not having the missed recording issues with my HD Tivo's anymore.

BTW, anyone know why HR10-250's are selling for so freakin' much on Ebay? Some used ones are bringing $400 plus. I've seen NIB ones bring over $900. What gives?

Scott

Isn't the HR10-250 the one with Tivo (sorry, I'm stuck with Charter - tree issues)? If so, then the jump in price probably has to do with the Tivo Series 3. You can transfer lifetime service from an existing Tivo to a series 3 for $199 if you buy the Series 3 by 1/31, and transfer service by (I think) 2/28. So people are looking to buy existing Tivo's with lifetime service contracts so they can transfer them to the new Series 3. That wouldn't explain the price jump on new ones, but that's the only reason I can think of.

I've recently had nothing but trouble with Charter. Most recently they came to install a cable card on my Hitachi 42HDT79 and it is not picking up any channels, and I have been without TV since Saturday. Assuming they fix this problem, is there a way to get OTA HD and use my cable card? Since Charter does not currently have ABC (LOST is coming back) and CBS, I was hoping I could get them OTA.

Also, is anybody in Oakville receiving all local (Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC) channels with one antenna without a rotator. Thanks for any replies. I apologize if this is an extremely basic question, but I am REALLY new to all this.

FinRx -

I looked up the specs to your TV:
http://www.hitachi.us/tv/browse/plasma/pdf/42HDT79.pdf

It says that the TV has a "Quick Start Seamless HDTV (ATSC) and NTSC tuner." So yes, you should be able to connect an antenna to the tuner on the television and receive OTA HD signals. You'll probably need to switch inputs to go from the cable card to the Antenna...

If the TV only has one input for an RG6 (standard cable wire,) then you may need to purchase a combiner/splitter like this:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103923&cp=&sr=1&origkw=combiner&kw=combiner&parentPage=search

The TV should allow you to manually add the OTA channels and the cable channels that you want. I don't have any experience with the cable card on which to draw. Here's a picture of the inputs:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-g0Qpl26Zjeo/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&tab=morephotos&pi=1&i=66242HDT79&display=L#Tab

It looks like a nice television.

Isn't the HR10-250 the one with Tivo (sorry, I'm stuck with Charter - tree issues)? If so, then the jump in price probably has to do with the Tivo Series 3. You can transfer lifetime service from an existing Tivo to a series 3 for $199 if you buy the Series 3 by 1/31, and transfer service by (I think) 2/28. So people are looking to buy existing Tivo's with lifetime service contracts so they can transfer them to the new Series 3. That wouldn't explain the price jump on new ones, but that's the only reason I can think of.

You can't get a lifetime sub on a DirecTivo model any more. When they first came out you could, but no longer.

It seems like everybody can get all their channels in with high signal strengths. I picked up this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&sr=1&origkw=40%22+boom+antenna&kw=40+boom+antenna&parentPage=search)
antenna last night hand brought it up to the attic. I live in the Carrington Place subdivision in St. Peters. I don't have it mounted anywhere, but resting on a beam and I am getting not so good results. The main reason I got it was to get 4.1 in for Sunday but I can only get 2 of the 10 signal strength bars and it looses signal about every 30 seconds on my Samsung DLP. The most other channels get is around 4-5 out of 10 bars. Would mounting it really help? I had a hard enough time finding a place to even get 4.1 in. I ran the cable straight down to the tv. What about an amplifier? It seems everybody else in my area get most channels in with high signals. It seems like I've rambled but I could really use some help. THANKS!

It seems like everybody can get all their channels in with high signal strengths. I picked up this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&sr=1&origkw=40%22+boom+antenna&kw=40+boom+antenna&parentPage=search)
antenna last night hand brought it up to the attic. I live in the Carrington Place subdivision in St. Peters. I don't have it mounted anywhere, but resting on a beam and I am getting not so good results. The main reason I got it was to get 4.1 in for Sunday but I can only get 2 of the 10 signal strength bars and it looses signal about every 30 seconds on my Samsung DLP. The most other channels get is around 4-5 out of 10 bars. Would mounting it really help? I had a hard enough time finding a place to even get 4.1 in. I ran the cable straight down to the tv. What about an amplifier? It seems everybody else in my area get most channels in with high signals. It seems like I've rambled but I could really use some help. THANKS!

Well, I'm new to OTA as well, but it looks like you have two things to do/try next: 1) is get a better placement and proper mounting for you antenna. Extra height can make a big difference. 2)Then try an amplifer.

I know I picked up 2.1,4.1,5.1,5.2 when I just hooked my attic antenna...I added an amplifer and can now get all the PBS stations...but I still can't get the 11.1, 11.2 and 30.1....which leads me to believe that I need to adjust my antenna a little bit.

i read you only get 50% signal if your in the attic. I tried it in my backyard but it was worse. It seems like I need to move it to the roof. Has anybody had experience with moving it from the attic to the roof? Wouldn't I have to cut a hole in my roof to feed the cable. I'll need to buy a longer cable then, because I cut down the long cable I had in an attempt to reduce signal loss. How much does the cable length affect signal loss?

I live near Willott & Mid Rivers and this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9516395#post9516395) is what I'm using.

I just leaned it against the eastern wall in the attic (2 story home).
If you try this model just make sure you can get it in your attic opening as it just fit in mine ;)

Good luck,
Token

I'm at Kisker & 94 and I use a DB8, which is what _token_ uses under a different name.

Mine is outside.

I had some breakups and pixelization during 24 last night using HR20 and OTA.
I had to do a double take to see if I was watching the HR10 ;)

Strange,

Token

These breakups occur with Fox all the time, and they're getting worse. They're at about the same level as they were before. For a while they seem to have minimized the problems, but they're back. D*, E*, OTA, it's all bad.

BTW, the break ups can be seen during Fox2 News in the morning, too.

We finally got our DVR box from Charter installed this morning. My wife tells me it's the Moto 3416, but I've not spent any time with it yet. I had a HDMI cable waiting for the installer and he used it to hook up the box, but then it took 45 min for charter to activate it. He and my wife apparently watched a movie while waiting. The guy did not have much good to say about Charter, and apparently knows the tech that's setting up HD boxes and not setting them to output HD. He said he's never had a HDMI cable waitng for him before. :)

It seems like everybody can get all their channels in with high signal strengths. I picked up this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&sr=1&origkw=40%22+boom+antenna&kw=40+boom+antenna&parentPage=search)
antenna last night hand brought it up to the attic. I live in the Carrington Place subdivision in St. Peters. I don't have it mounted anywhere, but resting on a beam and I am getting not so good results. The main reason I got it was to get 4.1 in for Sunday but I can only get 2 of the 10 signal strength bars and it looses signal about every 30 seconds on my Samsung DLP. The most other channels get is around 4-5 out of 10 bars. Would mounting it really help? I had a hard enough time finding a place to even get 4.1 in. I ran the cable straight down to the tv. What about an amplifier? It seems everybody else in my area get most channels in with high signals. It seems like I've rambled but I could really use some help. THANKS!

I would think that antenna would work for you. It sounds as it it is not mounted or pointed in the correct direction. I wouldn't worry about the cable length too much as I doubt that is the issue. Try mounting it in the attic as high up as possible and make sure it is pointed correctly. :)

Scott

Isn't the HR10-250 the one with Tivo (sorry, I'm stuck with Charter - tree issues)?... That wouldn't explain the price jump on new ones, but that's the only reason I can think of.

The jump is, as wmschultz points out, is because the HR10-250 is the ONLY D* HD DVR with Tivo software. The new D* HD DVR is NOT Tivo based & has many bugs in it, & many folks simply will NOT accept this new box, even though it will NOT work on any of the new MPEG4 D* HD channels. Right now this is limited to the HD local channels through the dish, but eventually, D* will be adding more national HD ONLY in MPEG4, so these boxes will NOT work with them, either.

BUT, these boxes WILL continue to work on the OTA digital locals (HD & SD) & since many folks ONLY care about the networks in HD, these boxes will continue to fill the bill for that as well.

I just switched out my hr10-250 for the new hr-20 from d* even after reading all the horror stories on dbstalk. So far so good (I've had it up and running with the latest update since Saturday). I had brief breakups on Fox last night as well (about 1-2 sec) which sounds like everyone regardless of the box they were using. Either way it is still way better than the 10 sec problem that the 6.3a Tivo software was having.

It kills me that D* got rid of Tivo, but the fact that I can get about $400 for the old unit on ebay takes away some of the pain:)

I just switched out my hr10-250 for the new hr-20 from d* even after reading all the horror stories on dbstalk. So far so good (I've had it up and running with the latest update since Saturday). I had brief breakups on Fox last night as well (about 1-2 sec) which sounds like everyone regardless of the box they were using. Either way it is still way better than the 10 sec problem that the 6.3a Tivo software was having.

It kills me that D* got rid of Tivo, but the fact that I can get about $400 for the old unit on ebay takes away some of the pain:)


Dbstalk put the fear in me on pulling the trigger from some of the threads over there the problems seemed massive.The more I got to reading about the hr 20 it seems to have gotten a lot better so I should be in business soon with D*.

Those of you with E*...has your OTA info populated on the sub channels yet? (9.1, 9.2, 9.3, 9.4)

These breakups occur with Fox all the time, and they're getting worse. They're at about the same level as they were before. For a while they seem to have minimized the problems, but they're back. D*, E*, OTA, it's all bad.

Ditto, ditto, ditto. We have a KTVI engineer who drops in from time to time but it seems to be an uphill battle for him too.

Those of you with E*...has your OTA info populated on the sub channels yet? (9.1, 9.2, 9.3, 9.4)

As of yesterday, 9.3, the analog Channel 9 mirror, has full guide info in my 622. I noticed it appear a week or two ago. Now if only 9.1, the "HD" national feed, would populate in the guide. I miss good stuff all the time on that channel. While it's true that it's very bit-starved, a Nova episode on 9.1 still looks great when compared with the same show on 9.3 in SD.

It seems like everybody can get all their channels in with high signal strengths. I picked up this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&sr=1&origkw=40%22+boom+antenna&kw=40+boom+antenna&parentPage=search)
antenna last night hand brought it up to the attic. I live in the Carrington Place subdivision in St. Peters. I don't have it mounted anywhere, but resting on a beam and I am getting not so good results. The main reason I got it was to get 4.1 in for Sunday but I can only get 2 of the 10 signal strength bars and it looses signal about every 30 seconds on my Samsung DLP. The most other channels get is around 4-5 out of 10 bars. Would mounting it really help? I had a hard enough time finding a place to even get 4.1 in. I ran the cable straight down to the tv. What about an amplifier? It seems everybody else in my area get most channels in with high signals. It seems like I've rambled but I could really use some help. THANKS!

Take it back and get a ChannelMaster 4221:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html

You can buy it locally for $20-22 at Skywalker in O'Fallon.

I struggled for years with yagi-style UHF antenna's before switching to the 4-bay style of the CM4221. With this thing, it's point it and forget it. I've installed 5 of them for friends, relatives, neighbors and everyone gets locked signals with no issues (O'Fallon/St. Peters area). Some have them in the attic, others have them even in the basement!

FinRx -

I looked up the specs to your TV:

It says that the TV has a "Quick Start Seamless HDTV (ATSC) and NTSC tuner." So yes, you should be able to connect an antenna to the tuner on the television and receive OTA HD signals. You'll probably need to switch inputs to go from the cable card to the Antenna...

If the TV only has one input for an RG6 (standard cable wire,) then you may need to purchase a combiner/splitter like this:

The TV should allow you to manually add the OTA channels and the cable channels that you want. I don't have any experience with the cable card on which to draw. Here's a picture of the inputs:

It looks like a nice television.

Thanks for the info. It is a great TV, if only I could get charter to make it work. They called me today at work to see if there was something they could do over the phone instead of making a service call...cheap b#%#s.

Ditto, ditto, ditto. We have a KTVI engineer who drops in from time to time but it seems to be an uphill battle for him too.

The battle is making progress :) I have a member of management informed of the issue and he seems very interested to find the cause. Sooo.....

Attention Everyone with KTVI Problems:


Ways you can help:

Wednesday night during primetime and the 9:00 news....

Write down the times you see any breakup and how long the breakup lasts. If you have a dvr, frame counting is a plus. Screenshots are great too. If it's during a commercial, please note who the advertiser is.

It would also be helpfull if you include the following information:
Your location (wentzville, edwardsville, etc)
What you recieve on (OTA, DirTV, Charter, etc)

Please email your results to ktvihd@gmail.com so I can look for similarities or patterns.

I'm doing this just as a fellow HD lover, but hopefully we can make some progress.

Thanks Folks..

So are you all not seeing it at the station?

So are you all not seeing it at the station?
not possible, Bill...either they're not monitoring it via conventional terrestrial reception, or no one is watching the monitor.

I think every station should have a OTA antenna, a Charter, DISH, and DTV hookup, and monitor what their customers are viewing. They could call it Quality Control, or QC, for short. Betchya other companies would adopt the idea :rolleyes:

So are you all not seeing it at the station?

We have three monitors to view our HD signal. One in master control, one in the engineering shop, and one in the lobby. The lobby is the only monitor that doesn't have closed captioning. Most of the things I've seen at home would fall below that captioning. Is it ideal? No. But it's what we have to work with. It's something that will hopefully change with time.

I think KSDK monitors their's. At least that is what the dude told me last year when I called about DD not being ON.

not possible, Bill...either they're not monitoring it via conventional terrestrial reception, or no one is watching the monitor.

I think every station should have a OTA antenna, a Charter, DISH, and DTV hookup, and monitor what their customers are viewing. They could call it Quality Control, or QC, for short. Betchya other companies would adopt the idea :rolleyes:


Yeah, they all do..... but only OTA for HD.

So, is KTVI not seeing the problem at the station?

So, is KTVI not seeing the problem at the station?

Good question. I haven't seen it in house OTA yet..... but, I've seen it at home.

(working on it)


:cool:

Yeah, they all do..... but only OTA for HD.
Yeah, I guess they have no reception issues...finding the towers and all :)

Does anyone know how the signal actually gets from the studios to the towers...is it via a direct connected fiber or cable, or is it sent over the air, or??

Yeah, I guess they have no reception issues...finding the towers and all :)

Does anyone know how the signal actually gets from the studios to the towers...is it via a direct connected fiber or cable, or is it sent over the air, or??

Yes, fiber and OTA on other freq. of course.

So is KTVI monitoring the source going out before it hits the tower or are they actually watching the feed from the tower?

"banding" or "artifacts" or whatever we are calling it was happening during tonight's American Idol.

Its on both my HR10-250 (DirectTV HD TiVo) and my series 3 TiVo. Both are OTA HD.

I'm going to schedule recordings on my PC so I can just send them a DVD of the problem.

They should be able to figure out the time based upon the time the show started.

I suggest someone at the station just sit down and watch. It happens all the time and seems to be increasing in frequency lately. Most of the time it is nothing more than occasional, very brief, pixelizing of a few frames. At other times, audio is momentarily muted as well. This is OTA via my Dish 622 in Creve Coeur with signal strength pegged at 100. It's quite common. so you shouldn't need to "trap" this for proof.

kdg454 posted a few great screen shots a few pages ago.

Excuse my dumbness but what is a 6 by 8 switch and what does it have to do with the 5nlb.

Believe it or not, noone monitors the "on-air" signal for their HD. This is something that will eventually change once analog tv goes away (I hope)

And it may seem helpful to say what the stations should do, but lets focus more on what we're doing here and how we can be as helpful as possible in providing a variety of samples from different sources, locations and monitors to prove that the issue is, in fact, a real problem that needs fixing. And maybe if all goes well, a diagnosis will result.

Lets keep this productive

Excuse my dumbness but what is a 6 by 8 switch and what does it have to do with the 5nlb.

The 6x8 Multiswitch takes the 4 feeds from the 5LNB dish and then is able to
distribute the signal to 8 recievers or 8 tuners (as in 2 per DVR).

So why are there 6 inputs if there are only 4 outputs from the 5LNB Dish, well..they are flex ports which are used for the 95 degree satellite for international programming and the 70ish degree satellite ( I think it is 70ish)..

Feel free to ask more.

Believe it or not, noone monitors the "on-air" signal for their HD. This is something that will eventually change once analog tv goes away (I hope)

And it may seem helpful to say what the stations should do, but lets focus more on what we're doing here and how we can be as helpful as possible in providing a variety of samples from different sources, locations and monitors to prove that the issue is, in fact, a real problem that needs fixing. And maybe if all goes well, a diagnosis will result.

Lets keep this productive

Believe me, I'm not bashing the process. I am just trying to understand what each station is doing.
It makes sense to me that the station wouldn't know about the OTA digital problem if they aren't monitoring
it. But I also understand why they don't. They really aren't doing anything in HD at the station like KSDK is.

I just don't understand why no one ever answers the emails that are sent to the KTVITech inbox. I wish I had the GM's email address.

I appreciate the investigative work you are doing. Let me know if you need any other info.

Thank you wmshultz I might be getting a install tomorrow of the hr 20.I was at the dbs forum and someone posted about the 6 by 8 switch.Directstart tv should be doing the install is there anything I should ask for or look far.I also live in a slab home and it seems the other people that have had the dish have the dish lines covering a long way on the roof to get to a certain point.

The 6x8 Multiswitch takes the 4 feeds from the 5LNB dish and then is able to
distribute the signal to 8 recievers or 8 tuners (as in 2 per DVR).

So why are there 6 inputs if there are only 4 outputs from the 5LNB Dish, well..they are flex ports which are used for the 95 degree satellite for international programming and the 70ish degree satellite ( I think it is 70ish)..

Feel free to ask more.

Is not one of the ports for an OTA antenna?

Scott

Believe me, I'm not bashing the process. I am just trying to understand what each station is doing.
It makes sense to me that the station wouldn't know about the OTA digital problem if they aren't monitoring
it. But I also understand why they don't. They really aren't doing anything in HD at the station like KSDK is.

I just don't understand why no one ever answers the emails that are sent to the KTVITech inbox. I wish I had the GM's email address.

I appreciate the investigative work you are doing. Let me know if you need any other info.

I understand completely. And so you know, KSDK also only monitors off air HD. It's a burden not only to the viewers but to the engineers as well (the delay is complely disorienting when trying to view them side by side). As I've said before, it's unfortunate that HD sometimes takes a back seat, but the good news is that HD can only be put off for so long before it becomes the primary concern. I hope you will find it as encouraging as I do that a key member of the management of KTVI is concerned about this problem. I have passed along the images that have been shared with me so far and I will continue to do so.

On the issue of why they don't give the HD signal more attention, I partially agree that it's hard to understand why. I do know that HD monitors are extrememly expensive on the professional level, and up to this point off air has been the status quo. Our goal here is change and perhaps that will be part of it.

Also I've created an email address to send pictures and other information.
ktvihd@gmail.com

Thanks

Kinda like, watching the lips move, and hearing the words, 30 seconds later :eek:

KTVIengineering,

Thanks so much for your efforts thus far. I have saved your email and will send as much info as possible for you to evaluate.

Scott

Does anyone think Charter and KMOV (Belo Corp) will make a last minute deal, before the Superbowl, so the HD signal is avaliable via Charter? Or is this a lost cause. I have an OTA HD antenna just in case, hopefully its not too windy outside.

Does anyone think Charter and KMOV (Belo Corp) will make a last minute deal, before the Superbowl, so the HD signal is avaliable via Charter? Or is this a lost cause. I have an OTA HD antenna just in case, hopefully its not too windy outside.


I would not hold my breath because the same thing happened with kdnl last year.I have a seperate tuner and ota.I had to laugh at my wife tonite since we are getting direct she wanted me to return the antenna I just bought and installed in my nasty cold attic.I told here it is always good to have a backup.

KTVIengineering,

Thanks so much for your efforts thus far. I have saved your email and will send as much info as possible for you to evaluate.

Scott
Ditto...I sent him a PM....I'm going to record 7PM-10PM on separate machines, one using OTA and the other SAT local...document it, drop it on a DVD, and send it to him :) I think Bill is also going to send him a DVD of issues.

While I don't have any screen shots, I can tell you that while watching House tonight (1/30) via OTA. I documented sound and picture problems at 8:49, 8:51, 8:55 and 8:57PM. There were others, but I have problems seeing my watch while I'm trying to get my son to sleep :)

I personally suspect that it doesn't matter which means of receiving the signal is used because I believe the problem definitely originates at the station....I don't see the problems on the National feed of FOX on D*88.

I also sent an email.

I understand completely. And so you know, KSDK also only monitors off air HD. It's a burden not only to the viewers but to the engineers as well (the delay is complely disorienting when trying to view them side by side). As I've said before, it's unfortunate that HD sometimes takes a back seat, but the good news is that HD can only be put off for so long before it becomes the primary concern. I hope you will find it as encouraging as I do that a key member of the management of KTVI is concerned about this problem. I have passed along the images that have been shared with me so far and I will continue to do so.

On the issue of why they don't give the HD signal more attention, I partially agree that it's hard to understand why. I do know that HD monitors are extrememly expensive on the professional level, and up to this point off air has been the status quo. Our goal here is change and perhaps that will be part of it.

Also I've created an email address to send pictures and other information.
ktvihd@gmail.com

Thanks

If it would be helpful, I could record an entire show for you and send you a DVD of an episode of Bones or House or American Idol. That way, you could look at exactly how the image breaks up in the OTA broadcast. Any PC with the ability to play back .ts files will show you where the problems are (that is, any more recent PC with VLC or Media Player Classic installed - they're both free). As I mentioned when I sent you some still captures, my MyHD computer capture card seems to handle the glitches better than my Dish 622. The image does not break up/tear as much generally. The 622 image usually looks much worse.

Is not one of the ports for an OTA antenna?

Scott

I think that changed with the 6x8. The 5x8 could put the antenna in, but when they installed my 6x8, I read the instructions and I'm pretty sure I remember it saying you specifically could not attach an antenna. I'll look to see if I still have the book at home.
Dug

Those of you with E*...has your OTA info populated on the sub channels yet? (9.1, 9.2, 9.3, 9.4)

Yes...if yours doesn't, perhaps you should re-scan.

Does anyone think Charter and KMOV (Belo Corp) will make a last minute deal, before the Superbowl, so the HD signal is avaliable via Charter? Or is this a lost cause. I have an OTA HD antenna just in case, hopefully its not too windy outside.

They didn't let the super bowl play a factor last year. Probably won't let it play a factor again this year.

Hope the snow's not too bad tonight, my Dish install is tomorrow @ 12:00!

-Matt

FORE!

I haven't completely caught up on the discussion from the past week, but I did see the exchange about a golf outing. Count me in if playing is not required and there are 19th hole vacancies...

My favorite golf joke:

Q: What's the only thing more boring that televised golf?

A: Golf on radio.

My favorite golf anecdote:

After being struck by lightning on a course once (or was it twice?), Lee Trevino decided that henceforth whenever threatening weather appeared in the middle of a round that he would move down the fairway with a 1-iron held aloft toward the heavens.

His rationale?

Not even God can hit a 1-iron... :)

Is not one of the ports for an OTA antenna?

Scott

Nope. They are specifically for the other sat freqs. Also the with the new dishes
(asctually the freqs they get) you can not diplex in the OTA as it supposedly
interferes with the signal.

There has been talk at DBSforum that if you diplex after the B Band converter you
should be okay, but there is no way to test this since the new freqs aren't being utilized yet.

FYI -- I will be working to get the OTA resource information we had in the old thread restored here, sometime later this week. I've asked for David Bott's help here, as I'd like to avoid having to re-enter the formatting manually. I'll also be moving the survey results to the new thread, so that they're a bit more readily accessible.

Once all that is done, I'll resume reposting of the periodic summary of these links...

Is not one of the ports for an OTA antenna?

No, BOTH of the extra flex ports are for dish signals only, from the 95 bird f/international channels, &/or 72.5 for some local channels markets, such as mine.
You CANNOT run OTA through this switch at all - it WILL conflict with the signals from the new CONUS HD birds when they launch later this year.

Toeside,

Just wanted to say thanks for maintaining the www.stlhdtv.info domain name and re-doing the redirect so that it's pointing to the new thread.

AT&T's U-verse Arrives in North County; Charter Threatens Suit

Is that a death rattle I hear?

Some key excerpts, from a story posted today at the Suburban Journals web site:
____________________________________________________________ _

"IPTV," AT&T's cable TV-like video service, is coming soon to one, and possibly several more, North County municipalities. And it's bringing controversy with it.

Overland already has signed a contract with the communications giant. Florissant is considering doing the same.

Craig W. Felzien, AT&T's regional director of external affairs, said AT&T will be talking with officials in all of North County's municipalities.

"We will have talks with communities of all sizes, large and small, and of all demographics," he said. "For example, it is already a matter of public record that we are talking with Sycamore Hills, which has a population of 722, and Florissant, which has over 52,000 people."

Some believe the new service is beneficial to consumers because it creates competition. However, cable TV provider Charter Communications has threatened legal action, saying AT&T is seeking special treatment from municipalities.
____________________________________________________________ _


____________________________________________________________ _

AT&T would offer essentially the same video services as Charter Communications. The IPTV signal is carried through fiber-optic cable, rather than the copper cable used by Charter.

With AT&T, customers would have the option to choose programming and other service packages ranging from $59 to $129, said John Medler, an AT&T attorney.

Charter charges $51.99 a month for its expanded-basic package, and a digital package can range from $55.99 to $93.99 a month, depending on the number of tiers taken, said Sharifah Williams, Charter's communications manager.

Discounted rates can run anywhere from $29.99 a month for expanded basic, depending on how many other products are purchased, to $29.99 to $59.99 a month for digital service, she added.
____________________________________________________________ _


____________________________________________________________ _

Charter officials said they welcome competition, but only on a level playing field.

"Competition isn't a new thing with us," Williams said. "We have no problem with competition."

Williams said AT&T attorneys are going to municipalities and requesting special consideration, and that is the part that is unfair.

"We have to abide by FCC (Federal Communications Commission) regulations and then enter into a franchise agreement," she said. "This is mandated by the FCC."

The agreements require Charter to provide certain services to municipalities, such as carrying government and educational programming. AT&T should be subject to the same guidelines, Charter officials maintain.

"AT&T has been able to agree to do things only if it's 'economically feasible,'" Williams said. "This is a loophole. They are held to a different set of rules and regulations for the same service."
____________________________________________________________ _


____________________________________________________________ _

Medler has a different view.

"Charter contends we're a cable service and bound by a franchise agreement, but we are not a cable service," he said. "We are a video service."

Medler also said he doubts there will be any legal action against his company because AT&T's agreements contain requirements similar to Charter's.

Felzien also dismissed Charter's complaints.

"(AT&T) has to abide by an extensive amount of rules and regulations as it relates it to being a phone provider in a community," he said.
____________________________________________________________ _



____________________________________________________________ _

Bridgeton Mayor Conrad Bowers has heard presentations from both AT&T and Charter on the subject. He said he has concerns.

"I like competition," Bowers said. "It's great, but there are legal issues that need to be worked out."

He said some of Bridgeton's residents might not have access to the fiber-optic cable lines used for IPTV.

"My biggest concern is whether or not all the residents will have the opportunity to have AT&T, (if it) were to come to my city," Bowers said. "It's great to have choices, but not when your neighbor doesn't. It's got to be available to all the residents."

Felzien said AT&T is rapidly expanding its fiber-optic network so that everyone will have access to IPTV.
____________________________________________________________ _

To read the complete story, click here (http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2007/01/31/news/sj2tn20070130-0131flo_att_1.ii1.txt)

MoinSTL

My Yagi is pointed a few degrees above the horizontal and I got much better reception with the slight tilt then before I had the tilt.

Cheers,

Thanks for the feedback. I have a lot of tilt. It's a neat trick. It helps with large trees and multi-path especially.

This morning I had quite a bit of break up on KSDK. The strong wind gusts may have shifted the antenna some? It seems okay now though.

Nope. They are specifically for the other sat freqs. Also the with the new dishes
(asctually the freqs they get) you can not diplex in the OTA as it supposedly
interferes with the signal.

There has been talk at DBSforum that if you diplex after the B Band converter you
should be okay, but there is no way to test this since the new freqs aren't being utilized yet.

Will this also hold true for D* if I downgrade to the HR20 with mpeg 4? Currently I diplex like crazy. What? I guess they figure if your getting the locals via SAT you have no need for OTA. Bummer if I can't diplex after I make the switch to mpeg 4.

Scott

Hey now...it isn't a down grade.

Yeah, when the new sats go live you will not be able to diplex, but by the time you go to
upgrade FTM will probably be active and you might not need to diplex cuz you will only
need 1 coax run to the HR20 for both tuners to be active. Thus freeing up your other
cable run.

Yes...if yours doesn't, perhaps you should re-scan.
For KECT, I only have EPG data for 9.3.
9.1, 9.2, & 9.4 are scanned in and working, but not showing up with EPG data on my 622's, and they are not yet listed as being uplinked into the 14xxx range on 110°, where DISH stores sub-channel EPG data for download....weird.

Data for 9.3 just began a couple of weeks ago. I re-scanned yesterday.

BTW, DISH has uplinked a channel (14064) for guide data of a KTVI DT-5. It's not yet active. I wonder what that's all about. WPSD (the IL NBC affiliate) already has a -3 and -4 running, but they're blank. (signal, no a/v) Pretty soon, we'll have 10 subs, and HD will look like SD :mad:

Has anyone else noticed that there is no closed captioning on KDNL - HD? :mad: It is OK on Charter channel 12, and OTA channel 30 but it does not come through on 30.1 - HiDef. Since I am somewhat hearing impaired (working around aircraft for 30+ years) I turn on the closed captioning to "understand" the little zingers on Desperate Housewives and Boston Legal.

I hope someone from KDNL monitors this forum as well as the "engineers" from KTVI. Once I retired from the airlines I worked Master Control at both a UPN and NBC affiliate in Wisconsin - thus the name HODAG.

Great forum here guys - it has helped me a lot. :D

PS - If you have an e-mail address for KDNL engineering I would be happy to send them a "heads up". :p

You are in luck, we do have a KDNL, Sinclair, Engineer that monitors the forum.

Hey now...it isn't a down grade.

Yeah, when the new sats go live you will not be able to diplex, but by the time you go to
upgrade FTM will probably be active and you might not need to diplex cuz you will only
need 1 coax run to the HR20 for both tuners to be active. Thus freeing up your other
cable run.

LOL, you noticed the "downgrade" sarcasm. Good job. So, you only run 1 lead into the HR20? That is cool, but I still only have one run to each TV location thus the use of diplexers. It will still need to run new coax to each location if I want OTA. That will not be an issue to some locations but kinda a pain for others. Glad I ran a conduit to the attic for future expansion. :)

Scott

You are in luck, we do have a KDNL, Sinclair, Engineer that monitors the forum.

Great - I will wait for his reply. You guys are always on top of things.

AT&T's U-verse Arrives in North County; Charter Threatens Suit

Is that a death rattle I hear?

Some key excerpts, from a story posted today at the Suburban Journals web site:
____________________________________________________________ _

"IPTV," AT&T's cable TV-like video service, is coming soon to one, and possibly several more, North County municipalities. And it's bringing controversy with it.

Overland already has signed a contract with the communications giant. Florissant is considering doing the same.

Craig W. Felzien, AT&T's regional director of external affairs, said AT&T will be talking with officials in all of North County's municipalities.

"We will have talks with communities of all sizes, large and small, and of all demographics," he said. "For example, it is already a matter of public record that we are talking with Sycamore Hills, which has a population of 722, and Florissant, which has over 52,000 people."

Some believe the new service is beneficial to consumers because it creates competition. However, cable TV provider Charter Communications has threatened legal action, saying AT&T is seeking special treatment from municipalities.
____________________________________________________________ _


____________________________________________________________ _

AT&T would offer essentially the same video services as Charter Communications. The IPTV signal is carried through fiber-optic cable, rather than the copper cable used by Charter.

With AT&T, customers would have the option to choose programming and other service packages ranging from $59 to $129, said John Medler, an AT&T attorney.

Charter charges $51.99 a month for its expanded-basic package, and a digital package can range from $55.99 to $93.99 a month, depending on the number of tiers taken, said Sharifah Williams, Charter's communications manager.

Discounted rates can run anywhere from $29.99 a month for expanded basic, depending on how many other products are purchased, to $29.99 to $59.99 a month for digital service, she added.
____________________________________________________________ _


____________________________________________________________ _

Charter officials said they welcome competition, but only on a level playing field.

"Competition isn't a new thing with us," Williams said. "We have no problem with competition."

Williams said AT&T attorneys are going to municipalities and requesting special consideration, and that is the part that is unfair.

"We have to abide by FCC (Federal Communications Commission) regulations and then enter into a franchise agreement," she said. "This is mandated by the FCC."

The agreements require Charter to provide certain services to municipalities, such as carrying government and educational programming. AT&T should be subject to the same guidelines, Charter officials maintain.

"AT&T has been able to agree to do things only if it's 'economically feasible,'" Williams said. "This is a loophole. They are held to a different set of rules and regulations for the same service."
____________________________________________________________ _


____________________________________________________________ _

Medler has a different view.

"Charter contends we're a cable service and bound by a franchise agreement, but we are not a cable service," he said. "We are a video service."

Medler also said he doubts there will be any legal action against his company because AT&T's agreements contain requirements similar to Charter's.

Felzien also dismissed Charter's complaints.

"(AT&T) has to abide by an extensive amount of rules and regulations as it relates it to being a phone provider in a community," he said.
____________________________________________________________ _



____________________________________________________________ _

Bridgeton Mayor Conrad Bowers has heard presentations from both AT&T and Charter on the subject. He said he has concerns.

"I like competition," Bowers said. "It's great, but there are legal issues that need to be worked out."

He said some of Bridgeton's residents might not have access to the fiber-optic cable lines used for IPTV.

"My biggest concern is whether or not all the residents will have the opportunity to have AT&T, (if it) were to come to my city," Bowers said. "It's great to have choices, but not when your neighbor doesn't. It's got to be available to all the residents."

Felzien said AT&T is rapidly expanding its fiber-optic network so that everyone will have access to IPTV.
____________________________________________________________ _

To read the complete story, click here (http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2007/01/31/news/sj2tn20070130-0131flo_att_1.ii1.txt)

So does AT&T have to go to each municipiality and get the authorization?

I live in Clayton and wonder if I should email my alderwoman to see what is going on?

Yes, but I think they are trying to get a Statewide measure approved.

I believe they are somehow sponsoring this website (http://action.mocomm.org/c.9nJEKRNrFmG/b.2292497/k.D338/Petition/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx)

The jump is, as wmschultz points out, is because the HR10-250 is the ONLY D* HD DVR with Tivo software. The new D* HD DVR is NOT Tivo based & has many bugs in it, & many folks simply will NOT accept this new box, even though it will NOT work on any of the new MPEG4 D* HD channels. Right now this is limited to the HD local channels through the dish, but eventually, D* will be adding more national HD ONLY in MPEG4, so these boxes will NOT work with them, either.

BUT, these boxes WILL continue to work on the OTA digital locals (HD & SD) & since many folks ONLY care about the networks in HD, these boxes will continue to fill the bill for that as well.

Do you know if the HR10-250 will work with the new dish that has to be put up for mpeg4? The reason I am asking is that I have the HR10-250 on my main TV which I am very happy with, but I just bought another TV for the bedroom and would like to get a new HD/DVR (HR20) receiver. I don't want to have to replace the HR10-250.

Believe it or not, noone monitors the "on-air" signal for their HD. This is something that will eventually change once analog tv goes away (I hope)

And it may seem helpful to say what the stations should do, but lets focus more on what we're doing here and how we can be as helpful as possible in providing a variety of samples from different sources, locations and monitors to prove that the issue is, in fact, a real problem that needs fixing. And maybe if all goes well, a diagnosis will result.

Lets keep this productive

Ok, I'm in Troy, IL about 25ish miles from the transmitter; and I'm seeing the problem as well.

I can capture the OTA stream as well and would be happy to provide it to help diagnose the problem.

If you want, you can even come over and watch the problem occur on a system that is quite capable of showing what your broadcasts really look like :)

Cheers,

Thanks for the feedback. I have a lot of tilt. It's a neat trick. It helps with large trees and multi-path especially.

This morning I had quite a bit of break up on KSDK. The strong wind gusts may have shifted the antenna some? It seems okay now though.

Mo:

I don't usually watch in the AM; but it might be just that the gusts move the antenna enough to cause some breakup.


Best,

MoxiGuy,
What are you doing in St. Louis? Have not seen many of your posts lately. I figured its because the 4.1 firmware update is available but few of the cable companies have released it.

I really like my Moxi and I do not want the DCT3416. Any idea as to the reality of the retail Moxi? If I have to get rid of the Moxi at some point I will seriously consider the retail Moxi if its as advertised. Multistream CC, external HDD, firewire, hdmi etc... Otherwise Tivo 3 or satellite will likely be the way to go. Sorry, I don't get to St. Louis often enough. I have racked up 10 posts in the last two weeks. If that number is low, it's because I don't have a lot of news to bring. Charter is still working toward a release of 4.1, but I don't have a deployment date yet. There's not much to add to the retail story beyond what was announced at CES. The latest published report is this interview with Digeo CEO, Mike Fidler in TWICE (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6410712.html?industryid=23099) from Monday. But there are no details available yet on pricing, features, and release date.

Do you know if the HR10-250 will work with the new dish that has to be put up for mpeg4? The reason I am asking is that I have the HR10-250 on my main TV which I am very happy with, but I just bought another TV for the bedroom and would like to get a new HD/DVR (HR20) receiver. I don't want to have to replace the HR10-250.

Yep, it works fine. I have two of them myself.

Hello again everybody. I finally decided I needed to have a HR20 before the Super Bowl because I can't depend on OTA from KMOV on my HDTivo anymore. It was always an issue, but ever since the power outages has been worse. With my DTivo I could hardly ever get KETC without dropouts and KMOV has been almost as bad lately. I have a computer HD tuner (I think with the same "5th gen LG" tuner as the HR20) and it does better on KMOV but still has trouble with KETC.
Anyway, I'm very impressed with OTA on the HR20 in limited use. KMOV was rock solid, and KETC was very good. KTVI dropped out during American Idol, but I guess I'm not the only one experiencing that. I guess I will try recording both OTA and MPEG4 feeds on this receiver tonight as ktviengineering suggests and see if I have the same issues on both. I also have the non-DVR MPEG4 box in another room I can compare with.
I was kind of surprised I actually ended up with a receiver yesterday--they didn't have a spare since they used mine yesterday in the morning install but had 2 spares driven to my house--and the 2nd one worked (for now). It did not have the firmware for OTA but downloaded soon after the installer left.

Sorry, I don't get to St. Louis often enough. I have racked up 10 posts in the last two weeks. If that number is low, it's because I don't have a lot of news to bring. Charter is still working toward a release of 4.1, but I don't have a deployment date yet. There's not much to add to the retail story beyond what was announced at CES. The latest published report is this interview with Digeo CEO, Mike Fidler in TWICE (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6410712.html?industryid=23099) from Monday. But there are no details available yet on pricing, features, and release date.

Interesting article. Thanks for the reply!

Quick question for those of you with Charter DVR- the remote that came with ours (the big silver SOB) has buttons that don't seem to work. Some of them may just be for features that Charter is not authorizing (picture in picture, for example), but others seem really nessessary, like the SWAP, instant replay, and LIST button that is supposed to go right to your recorded programs. When I press those buttons, the light on the remote does not light up at all. Is this normal, or did I get a bum remote? It's really hard to use the dual tuners without the swap button, and it would be nice if PIP worked too. Thanks for any thoughts...

BTW, I posted here a bit ago that we had some trouble with our install the first time around. I just wanted to state for the record that other than this remote issue, the second install went very well and Charter did give me the service discounts that they offered. I really doubt we'll still be with charter in 6 months when the discount runs out, but we'll give them a bit more time to improve the content that they carry.

Matt,

That's an interesting experiment. IMO you're going to have the same problem as you do OTA.

Please let us all know. Of course it matters how the D* feed is gathered; it if's from an OTA antenna for the backhaul.

Cheers,

11.1 has been pretty much the same for me tonight as always. It doesn't come on the Dish 622 without serious breakup several times a minute - unwatchable. On the MyHD card, the image breaks up once every few minutes (sometimes more), but the audio continues pretty much intact. I think it's a ch. 11 issue, because it used to be very solid (signal strength still registers very high on the 622, and 100% on the MyHD), but it breaks up on both now. KPLR has changed something.
Joseph-- I have exactly the same break-up problem with OTA 11.1 on my Dish Network 622 (also unwatchable). An old first generation Zenith OTA tuner also shows the problem with 11.1 but with less severity. Signal strength is high with my rooftop antenna in Saint Charles.

All of this started very suddenly sometime late in December. I've tried, but just can't go back to watching Veronica Mars in Standard Def. Does anyone know if channel 11 has ackowledged the problem?

Do you know if the HR10-250 will work with the new dish that has to be put up for mpeg4? The reason I am asking is that I have the HR10-250 on my main TV which I am very happy with, but I just bought another TV for the bedroom and would like to get a new HD/DVR (HR20) receiver.

Yes, but understand it will ONLY get what you are getting today. (NO HD locals through the dish, or any of the new, national MPEG4 HD nationals going up later this year) Eventually, if they start moving the existing MPEG2 HD to MPEG4, it will NO longer pick those up, either.

Ok, I'm in Troy, IL about 25ish miles from the transmitter; and I'm seeing the problem as well.

I can capture the OTA stream as well and would be happy to provide it to help diagnose the problem.

If you want, you can even come over and watch the problem occur on a system that is quite capable of showing what your broadcasts really look like :)

Cheers,


Sounds good....

I'll be at home doing the same... on a system that's also capable :)

Quick question for those of you with Charter DVR- the remote that came with ours (the big silver SOB) has buttons that don't seem to work. Some of them may just be for features that Charter is not authorizing (picture in picture, for example), but others seem really nessessary, like the SWAP, instant replay, and LIST button that is supposed to go right to your recorded programs. When I press those buttons, the light on the remote does not light up at all. Is this normal, or did I get a bum remote? It's really hard to use the dual tuners without the swap button, and it would be nice if PIP worked too. Thanks for any thoughts...

BTW, I posted here a bit ago that we had some trouble with our install the first time around. I just wanted to state for the record that other than this remote issue, the second install went very well and Charter did give me the service discounts that they offered. I really doubt we'll still be with charter in 6 months when the discount runs out, but we'll give them a bit more time to improve the content that they carry.

Do you have the Moxi or 3416?

None the less- I will give my remote a "once over" tonight and let you know ;)

Yep, it works fine. I have two of them myself.


Thanks for the info!

Mo gave me the D* TV customer retention number last year that I used which was great. But I heard that the number is no longer good. Does anyone have a direct number to the customer retention that is still good?

Yes, but understand it will ONLY get what you are getting today. (NO HD locals through the dish, or any of the new, national MPEG4 HD nationals going up later this year) Eventually, if they start moving the existing MPEG2 HD to MPEG4, it will NO longer pick those up, either.


Gotcha. I just love the TiVo. So I am going to hold out on replacing that as long as I can. I already get the locals through OTA which I am fine with.

Thanks for the info!

Mo gave me the D* TV customer retention number last year that I used which was great. But I heard that the number is no longer good. Does anyone have a direct number to the customer retention that is still good?

1-800-824-0739

1-800-824-0739

Thanks!

Thanks!

Please post your retention results or PM me if possible. I like to know what D* is willing to give. ;)

Scott

Sounds good....

I'll be at home doing the same... on a system that's also capable :)

Wow, you have a 1080p FPTV with a 106" Diagonal as well? Very nice setup :D

Please post your retention results or PM me if possible. I like to know what D* is willing to give. ;)

Scott


Will do.

Wow, you have a 1080p FPTV with a 106" Diagonal as well? Very nice setup :D

Man, if that is the definition of capable, I'm screwed. :mad:

Scott

Man, if that is the definition of capable, I'm screwed. :mad:

Scott

Nah, just having a little fun with the KTVI guy.

One thought that Doug and I have kicked around is a "local TV" night where we invite all the Engineers to my house one night or on a weekend and show them what their broadcasts really look and sound like.

It would be interesting to show them how good (or bad) their content looks. I have captured content on hard drive for all the locals to show their quality (or lack thereof).

I also got some very high bit rate MPEG-2 material at CES that I haven't had a chance to look at. Think 30+ Mbits/second MPEG-2.


CHeers,

Gotcha. I just love the TiVo. So I am going to hold out on replacing that as long as I can. I already get the locals through OTA which I am fine with.

Same here - whether I (reluctantly) get one of the HR20's, or possibly (although VERY unlikely) switch to E* or go totally back to cable w/a Tivo S3, I have NO intention of getting locked onto another 2 year contract on D*, until they have their MPEG4 HD national channels up & running, as well as getting more of the bugs worked out of their HR20. :rolleyes:

Springfield, IL???

Get out of our thread :D

Nah, just having a little fun with the KTVI guy.

One thought that Doug and I have kicked around is a "local TV" night where we invite all the Engineers to my house one night or on a weekend and show them what their broadcasts really look and sound like.

It would be interesting to show them how good (or bad) their content looks. I have captured content on hard drive for all the locals to show their quality (or lack thereof).

I also got some very high bit rate MPEG-2 material at CES that I haven't had a chance to look at. Think 30+ Mbits/second MPEG-2.Still a good idea, particularly for the "multi-casters" who claim that the subchannel(s) payload has no impact on HD picture quality. But I guess those claims are easy to make when stations don't bother to monitor the outgoing digital signals.

Anyway, the fact is, most of the deficiencies are also clearly visible on 50-inch screens...

Or 23 inch screens........Or 65 inch screens........or any size screen where the consumer has an external audio source.

Shoot, even my 4:3 19" computer monitor using Windows Media Center or ATI's TV software.

Springfield, IL???

Get out of our thread :D

Why - I get ALL of the St.Louis channels (abeit in SD) on DBS anyway. ;) :D
If I end up NOT being able to get the Chicago HD locals on my D* account, (because of the Chicago HD spots being too weak) I may end up going for St.Louis HD locals instead.
Actually, I have clients that are in your market. :)

Hey BTW, is there an updated list somewhere that shows all the subchannels available on all the St.Louis digital OTA's? (I know some of them, like KETC-DT has about 3-4 subchannels, but one list would sure be handy for me) :)

Yes, but understand it will ONLY get what you are getting today. (NO HD locals through the dish, or any of the new, national MPEG4 HD nationals going up later this year) Eventually, if they start moving the existing MPEG2 HD to MPEG4, it will NO longer pick those up, either.

I would be screaming if I ever found anything on CW11 worth watching. I too, find it unwatchable. It seems like this started around the time the power level jumped about 10 points. I used to get a signal in the mid eighties on my Dish 622 when all was well. Now my signal strength hovers near 100.

Joseph-- I have exactly the same break-up problem with OTA 11.1 on my Dish Network 622 (also unwatchable). An old first generation Zenith OTA tuner also shows the problem with 11.1 but with less severity. Signal strength is high with my rooftop antenna in Saint Charles.

All of this started very suddenly sometime late in December. I've tried, but just can't go back to watching Veronica Mars in Standard Def. Does anyone know if channel 11 has acknowledged the problem?
I believe indications are this is a DISH issue, more so, than a KPLR issue.
Yes, both DISH TS and PQ is aware of the local issue. I've been personally told by a DISH PQR there has been discussions between DISH and KPLR engineering, regarding the issue.

I believe indications are this is a DISH issue, more so, than a KPLR issue.
Yes, both DISH TS and PQ is aware of the local issue. I've been personally told by a DISH PQR there has been discussions between DISH and KPLR engineering, regarding the issue.

DISH TS is Technical Services? What are PQ and PQR? Picture Quality and Review?

I just had direct tv installed they left and it quit working this is not right .It keeps searching for satellite I have already did 5 resets thank god I have ota.Friday will be the earliest they can come and look I need a stiff drink.

We've got the 3416. Thanks!

Do you have the Moxi or 3416?

None the less- I will give my remote a "once over" tonight and let you know ;)

I just had direct tv installed they left and it quit working this is not right .It keeps searching for satellite I have already did 5 resets thank god I have ota.

That sucks!
Did the installer get a picture before he left?
What receiver did u get?

Good luck,
Token

I just had direct tv installed they left and it quit working this is not right .It keeps searching for satellite I have already did 5 resets thank god I have ota.Friday will be the earliest they can come and look I need a stiff drink.

What are your signal strengths? And is this all channels or just some of them?

EDIT: And are you sure they can't come back till Friday? Did you call DirecTV or did you call the install company?

Toeside,

Just wanted to say thanks for maintaining the www.stlhdtv.info domain name and re-doing the redirect so that it's pointing to the new thread.


Just for everyone's reference. It is I, Rich, who owns and maintains the stlhdtv.info link. Toeside used to own the old one before it got sold off.

Just want to make sure everyone knows who to get ahold of in case something breaks like this last snafu.

:)

Yeah sure, you just want the credit....Just kidding. It is my fault, I forgot it sold and was re-established by you.

Thanks for doing it.

I just had direct tv installed they left and it quit working this is not right .It keeps searching for satellite I have already did 5 resets thank god I have ota.Friday will be the earliest they can come and look I need a stiff drink.

So, they left without you having any signal whatsoever?


Scott

Token and Wmshultz I am getting about 95% when they were here the locals would not work so they did a reset and I did 4 others.The analog tvs were working then they quit I did a reset and they came back.I have a hr 20 the hd says no signal now the channel is working.I had a picture when they left now it come and goes.I cant fault the installers because it may not be there fault.The funny part is D* says they will not charge me a service call I held my cool when they said that.

I am miffed at this my charter is gone well I have ota and I will have to record tyar on my computer for my wife.Bad connection or equipment I dont know.

I would like to help you but you just confused me. How many receivers do you have, do any work, what channels are you NOT getting, what are the signal levels on all SATS and transponders?

I just returned my Yamaha RX-V1600 and picked up a Denon 2807. I found out the Yamaha wasn't handling LFE over HDMI properly (I had to crank my sub settings for DD+ and TrueHD over HDMI)

The Denon 2807 is supposed to handle LFE properly. I'll update once I've had a chance to hook it up!

I like my 2807.

Just for everyone's reference. It is I, Rich, who owns and maintains the stlhdtv.info link. Toeside used to own the old one before it got sold off.

Just want to make sure everyone knows who to get ahold of in case something breaks like this last snafu.

:)Mea culpa -- the kudos have now been redirected to you. :D

Thanks again...

Hey BTW, is there an updated list somewhere that shows all the subchannels available on all the St.Louis digital OTA's? (I know some of them, like KETC-DT has about 3-4 subchannels, but one list would sure be handy for me) :)I maintain a St. Louis guide to HD programming for the various services -- OTA, Charter, DirecTV and DISH -- but I don't actually show the name of the channels (PBS Kids, Weather Plus, etc), just the channel numbers.

You can find that here (via the old thread):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9546301&&#post9546301

Edit: My memory is clearly getting fuzzy -- Sorry, but I don't even show the subchannels in the list, primarily because they aren't HD (and I hate those $(#U*$*# subchannels)

I would like to help you but you just confused me. How many receivers do you have, do any work, what channels are you NOT getting, what are the signal levels on all SATS and transponders?


I have I hdr 20 and two boxes 3 tvs all in all all the tvs are searching for a satellite now.One minute there on and they start searching again and the signal is 93 and 96.I just got a call and they are coming back.I sure hope it works.

I just returned my Yamaha RX-V1600 and picked up a Denon 2807. I found out the Yamaha wasn't handling LFE over HDMI properly (I had to crank my sub settings for DD+ and TrueHD over HDMI)

The Denon 2807 is supposed to handle LFE properly. I'll update once I've had a chance to hook it up!

Denon Rocks! Good choice. :)

Scott

Toeside,

Just wanted to say thanks for maintaining the www.stlhdtv.info domain name and re-doing the redirect so that it's pointing to the new thread.

Hey Doug, long time, no chat. I'd love to accept this thanks, but the .info domain isn't mine. Someone else set that one up.

:)

Someone mentioned DirecTV Retention. Today I called to cancel and was offered $10 off my Total Choice package, free HD package, and they'd waive the DVR fee. I told them I'd think about it.

I have a Series 3 TiVo now, so I do want to cancel DirecTV. I just need to find a home for my HR10-250 (DirecTV HD TiVo).

DISH TS is Technical Services? What are PQ and PQR? Picture Quality and Review?
Bill,
Yes, tech services.
The PQR's sign their emails--Dish Network Audio/Visual Quality Control Representative. I think the a/v q/c department is located in CO with their corp offices. Their task is to communicate with subs regarding quality issues once reception and hardware is ruled out.

I've seen them referred to as PQR's, AVQCR's, and QCR's.

I'm sure DTV and Charter...well, DTV.... has something like it also, they may call it something else.

Hey Doug, long time, no chat. I'd love to accept this thanks, but the .info domain isn't mine. Someone else set that one up.Credit has now been shifted to the deserving party. ;)

Nice to have you back here.

I just returned my Yamaha RX-V1600 and picked up a Denon 2807. I found out the Yamaha wasn't handling LFE over HDMI properly (I had to crank my sub settings for DD+ and TrueHD over HDMI)

The Denon 2807 is supposed to handle LFE properly. I'll update once I've had a chance to hook it up!

I've looked at this receiver, too. I have the Denon 3805, but it doesn't speak any dialect of HDMI. I'd like to take advantage of the Audessey EQ in the 2807, too. I do love my 3805's sound, though. I'd really like to hear your review.

I like my 2807.

Another Denon user. Can anyone compare the sound of the 2807 to the 3805?

We've got the 3416. Thanks!

How about a little follow-up on the 3416.
Do you like it?
Any problems?
Do you archive from it at all?
Thanks