It is true in STL. This was one of the first areas in the US to have digital basic channels. This saves them bandwidth, allows a better SD picture and allows one to record more programs on Moxi since analog takes up more space than digital programs.

Correction: This WILL save them bandwitdth once they figure out what to do with analog subscribers without a box. Currently analog is still flowing through Charter wires, so the bandwidth isn't available yet.

They need to figure out a way to do the analog demux at the street level or provide a cheap box to convert the digital signal to analog without charging analog customers extra.

I believe cable companies that are currently truley All Digital no longer have Analog subscribers.

Again, if they ever do this they WILL have more bandwidth for HD signals, but I'm not holding my breath...

Dave

The regulatory approval is a substantial hurdle in the Sirius/XM deal IMO.

Cheers,

That's what I fear. I'd love to have MLB to go with the NFL/Nascar networks.

Dave

THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805958) STL Charter thread? The one created on the 15th?

I was more so wondering why it's not being used for what it was intended for :confused:

I think the Charter guys are aware of what they get from Charter. I was just trying to be informative for those who hate Charter and are misrepresenting what is real happening to defend their choice of providers.

With Charter, if you don't have a box, you don't get digital. If you don't have a box with Sat, you get nothing.

As far as boxes are concerned, Charter has the same problem as anyone (including OTA) when the mandate for ALL DIGITAL takes effect in 2009. If you don't have a box or an ATSC tuner, you get nothing. Sat subs already have a box so will be unaffected.

I hope my last two posts put an end to this tiresome arguing.

Walt

Sorry to be so tiresome, but I thought the all digital mandate was for public airwaves.
If that is so, how does that have anything to do with charter?

Like I said previously, Charter in STL is now all digital it probably wasn't when you tried it a few months ago. And folks wonder why we want our own thread.

Dude, I dropped Charter like maybe 4 weeks ago. The first week I had sat was the week of the Superbowl.

And correct me if I am wrong, but Charter started rolling out "All Digital" like two years ago...it's probably just now that they are done with it. I remember getting a notice in maybe '04 or '05 that Maryville, IL office subscribers were getting all true digital and like I said that was years ago.

Sorry to be so tiresome, but I thought the all digital mandate was for public airwaves.
If that is so, how does that have anything to do with charter?

So when OTA goes digital, Charter and all the other folks are going to spend the money to do an D/A conversion?????? :confused: NNNNOOOOOTTTT. :mad: Charter will be happy to recover the bandwidth they are waisting on 99 analogue channels. They will be able to offer more phone service. :eek: They will also be able to rent more STBs. Everyone without an ATSC tuner or Sat will need a box of some sort to view any TV at all.

Maybe I'm stupid. Whadaya tink?

Walt

Anyone else experience short breakup or pixelation on Fox hd through Charter last night and today? I just installed a new coax and only experience it on this channel.

And for those without TIVO who don't want to rise at the crack of dawn to see a F1 race, Speed always does a rebroadcast around 11 AM.

Four races will be on FOX this year. IIRC, it'll be the Canadian, US, French, and British GPs. Since the host country produces the TV for a GP, and FOX is it this year, I'm hoping they do it in HD. We'll be at the USGP, as we are every year. :)

Yea! There are a few F1 fans out there!

I'm not going to hold my breath for F1 on HD. While the host country does have the broadcast rights, pray Tony George doesn't hold the rights and sells them to Fox. As evidenced from the Indy 500 not being in HD, he seems to have no interest in spending the extra $ to make it happen in HD.

It is true in STL. This was one of the first areas in the US to have digital basic channels. This saves them bandwidth, allows a better SD picture and allows one to record more programs on Moxi since analog takes up more space than digital programs.
It may be all digital, but it is still terrible from the Moxi on my HDTV. Before on my SDTV Moxi was better than straight cable b/c of the digital, but it is bad now. I even got rid of a split when I got the Moxi (used to have VCR-TV split). I'm glad that your SD is good, but mine and a lot of people's are terrible. As I said, the CRT probably helps.

So when OTA goes digital, Charter and all the other folks are going to spend the money to do an D/A conversion?????? :confused: NNNNOOOOOTTTT. :mad: Charter will be happy to recover the bandwidth they are waisting on 99 analogue channels. They will be able to offer more phone service. :eek: They will also be able to rent more STBs. Everyone without an ATSC tuner or Sat will need a box of some sort to view any TV at all.

Maybe I'm stupid. Whadaya tink?

Walt

I think you are speaking (typing) in a condescending tone and I don't appreciate it and I don't know how many other people do.

All I'm saying is that the digital transition only applies to public airwaves, so that equals what, 4 channels for charter since they refuse to pay for the other ones?

So to say that "If you don't have a box or an ATSC tuner, you get nothing." Is kind of a reach, no?

On another note, just take this Charter conversation to the all Charter thread, I thought
that is what it was there for. Us Sat subs were dominating the conversation and cable
subs have their own thread now..so this conversation needs to go there, right?

So what happens to us OTA-only subs?

I got tired of paying for programming, so I canceled DirecTV and my Series3 TiVo has happily receiving all it's content via the antenna in my attic. :D


Honestly, I don't like the idea of two threads. There are a lot of overlapping topics, and to have them separated out seems pointless. Take the PQ issues with Fox: those are happening OTA, via Charter and DirecTV MPEG4. Having provider threads will make identifying common issues much more difficult. I know I won't stay up-to-date on a Charter-centric thread.

Toeside, I agree..That was kind of my point.

Can anyone tell me why CBS HD or KMOV goes in and out of focus so much. I used to only notice it during NFL games when they would cut to the main long shot, but I noticed it during CSI Miami many times tonight. Also, FOX OTA is still breaking up. I saw it numerous times during Prison Break. For 24 I switched to D* 88 and no more bad picture.

Scott

So what happens to us OTA-only subs?

I got tired of paying for programming, so I canceled DirecTV and my Series3 TiVo has happily receiving all it's content via the antenna in my attic. :D

Toeside,

Your Tivo is your ATSC tuner. You'll be fine with OTA.

I'm still awaiting the pics of your theater. What up?

Scott

Hey Scott, sorry about that Turner hire. I say by week 7 Rivera will be the coach.

No Bill, ESPN just called Norv a "upgrade." WTF, were the Chargers thinking?

Scott

Anyone else experience short breakup or pixelation on Fox hd through Charter last night and today? I just installed a new coax and only experience it on this channel.
I get short breakups on Fox OTA several times in the course of watching 24 every week. NASCAR didn't seem as bad, but problem is there too. Breakups and pixellation have been brought up many times before here. Seems to be a way of life for Fox. Picture is so darn good, the occasional breakups don't bother me. Way better than SD!

I think you are speaking (typing) in a condescending tone and I don't appreciate it and I don't know how many other people do.

All I'm saying is that the digital transition only applies to public airwaves, so that equals what, 4 channels for charter since they refuse to pay for the other ones?

So to say that "If you don't have a box or an ATSC tuner, you get nothing." Is kind of a reach, no?

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound condescending. It was an attempt at humor. With the HD track record of Charter, they obviously would not use the windfall bandwidth for HD.

Where will the analogue programs come from when the public airwaves go digitaL? We see the channels that are analogue on Charter are already going digital. History, Food, Discovery and others are now in HD on Dish and soon Directv (I think they all have Discovery). It is not a reach to say that not having a box or ATSC tuner you get nothing. It is the way it is going to be. Why do you think there is so much contoversy over the dicontinuance of the analogue spectrum. Mom and pop with a 10 year old TV are going to lose programming if they don't have a digital reciever.

Am I wrong in what I am saying? Anyone?

Walt

Toeside,

Your Tivo is your ATSC tuner. You'll be fine with OTA.
I know. I meant "What happens to us OTA-only people--we don't have our own thread.


I'm still awaiting the pics of your theater. What up?

Scott

Um... I still need to cover my tri-corner bass traps with fabric. I want to do that before I take new pictures. I thought I'd have that done weeks (or year(s) ago).

I could show you the room in person, too, I suppose. You are close enough. :D

On another note, just take this Charter conversation to the all Charter thread, I thought
that is what it was there for. Us Sat subs were dominating the conversation and cable
subs have their own thread now..so this conversation needs to go there, right?

I'm sorry but I did not start the conversation. It was the debate about Moxi SD picture quality. I was trying to stop that useless waste of forum storage. It turned into me answering your question which you took offense at. I don't think that on this open forum I am only allowed to type "Charter" in the Charter thread. This forum is about the dispersion of knowledge. I was just trying to add my small bit.

Walt

Am I wrong in what I am saying? Anyone?

Walt

No, there are/will be people that will not get any channels after the conversion to all digital.

Scott

I know. I meant "What happens to us OTA-only people--we don't have our own thread.



I say start one. :)

Scott

I get short breakups on Fox OTA several times in the course of watching 24 every week. NASCAR didn't seem as bad, but problem is there too. Breakups and pixellation have been brought up many times before here. Seems to be a way of life for Fox. Picture is so darn good, the occasional breakups don't bother me. Way better than SD!

Yep the problem is definitely the local FOX affiliate. ktviengineer has offered to help resolve this problem, but I don't think much progress has been made and I don't think he checks the board often. Altough he did request people to email him information with times and types of breakups that occur. Unfortunately, I lost the email address (although I think I could find it by searching the old thread).

Personally, I tried working with a different engineer a couple of years ago to fix problems with the broadcast. After, reducing the frequency of the breakups a little, the communications fell off. It's hard to get motivated to do it again when I can just watch the east coast feed of FOX on D* and not have any breakups.

I say start one. :)

Scott

Done.




(no, not really.)


:p

I'm sorry but I did not start the conversation. It was the debate about Moxi SD picture quality. I was trying to stop that useless waste of forum storage. It turned into me answering your question which you took offense at. I don't think that on this open forum I am only allowed to type "Charter" in the Charter thread. This forum is about the dispersion of knowledge. I was just trying to add my small bit.

Walt

Walt,
I didn't mean to bump heads with you. I was just pointing out how much better the video quality is on the 3416 over the Moxi for the digital channels (non-HD). Not sure why it is, but it's the only thing that changed and the picture is now great. I'm sure it has to do with a combination of both Moxi and TV (it's a 53" HD ready CRT) and how they handle the component signal (that's what is feeding the TV)


Sorry, just noticed it was PWSHER I was having a dialog with.

I would actually prefer the threads stay as one as I would like to know if/when Charter expands their HD lineup.

Dave

I get short breakups on Fox OTA several times in the course of watching 24 every week. NASCAR didn't seem as bad, but problem is there too. Breakups and pixellation have been brought up many times before here. Seems to be a way of life for Fox......

I caught about a dozen breakups during 24 last night before I just gave up counting. This is unacceptable and smacks of incompetence. Sure, it's a sophisticated system but it ain't rocket science. For goodness sake, this a Fox O&O. If the local team needs assistance, they should ask. Someone from NYC should be able to help diagnose and resolve the matter.

Mr. KTVI is trying to resolve this but it sounds like the boss keeps asking for more proof! Sounds like a swell guy to work for.

I had only one audio break up on Fox yesterday during "24" via Charter. I don't know how Charter gets their HD feed from KTVI, but I didn't have any problems during the race on Sunday either!

I had only one audio break up on Fox yesterday during "24" via Charter. I don't know how Charter gets their HD feed from KTVI, but I didn't have any problems during the race on Sunday either!

But how many video breakups did you have?

I don't think I've noticed issues with audio, but I do have the video breakup issue.

I had only one audio break up on Fox yesterday during "24" via Charter. I don't know how Charter gets their HD feed from KTVI, but I didn't have any problems during the race on Sunday either!

I think I only remember one audible audio breakup druing 24, but I do regularly see my receiver lose the 5.1 designation numerous times during the episode (some are more audible than others). Of course, if I had the volume a little louder and didn't have to listen over a sometimes crying 3 month old baby, I might be able to hear more of them.

Anyway, I have been writing down some of the times of these events, but I figured when John offered up a disc that actually detailed the exact times and types of breakups (audio and/or picture), my notes wouldn't be needed anymore, nor would they be as informative.

Nick, over at DBS has compiled and is maintaining a list of all "known" national HD channels.
Here's a link to his post (used with permission)
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=80202
(corrections/additions should be forwarded to Nick)

Haven't posted in quite a while but have been keeping up with everthing. Thinking of buying the PS3 mostly for the Blue Ray. I know it doesn't up convert DVD's but how do the DVD'S look on the PS3? I have the Oppo DV971H and the Sony 50" SXRD. Will the PS3 look better than the Oppo?

Anybody heard if Oppo plans on making a BR or HD player?

Geez, some of us don't even have the B update yet. I figure by the time I get the C update for daylight savings time, it'll be standard time again already!

I haven't been keeping up with the thread the past few days but the phrase daylight "savings" time drives me crazy. ;) It's right up there with "irregardless".

Bob, I think I read somewhere that D* stopped the roll out of 6.3b because C was coming out. Have you tried forcing a call? FWIW, it took much longer for me to receive previous updates. This last update came down without having to force a call.

Alot of people use irregardless :D

I caught about a dozen breakups during 24 last night before I just gave up counting. This is unacceptable and smacks of incompetence. Sure, it's a sophisticated system but it ain't rocket science. For goodness sake, this a Fox O&O. If the local team needs assistance, they should ask. Someone from NYC should be able to help diagnose and resolve the matter.

Mr. KTVI is trying to resolve this but it sounds like the boss keeps asking for more proof! Sounds like a swell guy to work for.


I have to say I pretty much agree with your sentiment. I appreciate KTVIengineering's efforts to help us. But with that being said, I don't see how us writing down when these breakups occur is going to help. EVERYONE is seeing them and they are occuring so often it isn't like you need to tell them, "Oh there was another one yesterday at 4:32 pm." I mean if you watch for 15 minutes my experience is you could easily see 2 or 3 breakups.

I get video breakups often. I also get audio breakups. This is the first year I have ever watched any American Idol, and the audio breakups are obviously most noticeable there.

IRREGARDLESS of what they think, the breakups are there. ;)

Alot of people use irregardless :D

LOL, a lot of people use alot too. :)

Scott

LOL, a lot of people use alot too. :)

Scott
nothing gets past you, Scott :D

My OTA cable is draped across the roof and down to my addition. I need to secure it as strong wind moves the cable too much resulting in brief drop outs.. I'd like to avoid big U shaped nails in my shingles and was thinking about using clear blobs of silicone caulk every foot or so but not sure how that would work during the summer.

Suggestions? I'd like to take care of it while the temps are fairly warm.

Thanks in advance!

My OTA cable is draped across the roof and down to my addition. I need to secure it as strong wind moves the cable too much resulting in brief drop outs.. I'd like to avoid big U shaped nails in my shingles and was thinking about using clear blobs of silicone caulk every foot or so but not sure how that would work during the summer.

Suggestions? I'd like to take care of it while the temps are fairly warm.

Thanks in advance!

Is there any chance that you can re-run that cable so it can be tucked into siding j-channel, or secured another way?

I don't think the summer sun can melt silicon caulk, so if that's your alternative, it should be fine. I'd still try to re-run that cable to get it to a soffit, then attach it via whatever method that'll work.

My OTA cable is draped across the roof and down to my addition. I need to secure it as strong wind moves the cable too much resulting in brief drop outs.. I'd like to avoid big U shaped nails in my shingles and was thinking about using clear blobs of silicone caulk every foot or so but not sure how that would work during the summer.

Suggestions? I'd like to take care of it while the temps are fairly warm.

Thanks in advance!
Mine is fastened using clear silicone....every 2-3 feet, and along a shingle seam, so the caulk seeps in and forms an anchor.

I've also used the indoor baseboard cable hook/nails....dipped in silicone first to better resist pull out. If inserted where shingles overlap, the nails are too short to penetrate the wood beneath.

Mine is fastened using clear silicone....every 2-3 feet, and along a shingle seam, so the caulk seeps in and forms an anchor.

I've also used the indoor baseboard cable hook/nails....dipped in silicone first to better resist pull out. If inserted where shingles overlap, the nails are too short to penetrate the wood beneath.

I have a couch and a refrigerator on my front porch. I mouted the dish to the front of the fridge and ran the coax down behind the couch and in through a hole in the window screen. It works well, but if I get a beer out of the fridge my Wife screams about loosing picture.

Scott

Mine is fastened using clear silicone....every 2-3 feet, and along a shingle seam, so the caulk seeps in and forms an anchor.

I've also used the indoor baseboard cable hook/nails....dipped in silicone first to better resist pull out. If inserted where shingles overlap, the nails are too short to penetrate the wood beneath.

Good suggestion. I'll try that. Do you just add a blob of it and push the cable in?

Toeside, the cable comes in at the back of the house on the east side and goes to the south side. I have a room addition in between that the dish is mounted to and well the soffit, etc. won't work. But thanks for the suggestion.

I have a couch and a refrigerator on my front porch. I mouted the dish to the front of the fridge and ran the coax down behind the couch and in through a hole in the window screen. It works well, but if I get a beer out of the fridge my Wife screams about loosing picture.

Scott

LOL! I don't believe you Scott! Post the pictures Mister!

(Can't help it, I'm blasting Red Hot Chili Peppers Greatest Hits). :cool:

Good suggestion. I'll try that. Do you just add a blob of it and push the cable in?

Toeside, the cable comes in at the back of the house on the east side and goes to the south side. I have a room addition in between that the dish is mounted to and well the soffit, etc. won't work. But thanks for the suggestion.
I held the cable down temporarily using 6" strips of duct tape near the shingle seams...then squeezed the caulk into the shingle seams, over the cable, and into the seam again. Like, back-and-forth 2-3 times across, ending up with a 1" bead of silicone. I pulled the tape off the next day. Also, it was around 80° out, so the silicone may have set faster for me, then it will now....may take 2 days.

I have a couch and a refrigerator on my front porch. I mouted the dish to the front of the fridge and ran the coax down behind the couch and in through a hole in the window screen. It works well, but if I get a beer out of the fridge my Wife screams about loosing picture.

Scott
C'mon Scott...no one's gunna believe you have screens on your windows.

I held the cable down temporarily using 6" strips of duct tape near the shingle seams...then squeezed the caulk into the shingle seams, over the cable, and into the seam again. Like, back-and-forth 2-3 times across, ending up with a 1" bead of silicone. I pulled the tape off the next day. Also, it was around 80° out, so the silicone may have set faster for me, then it will now....may take 2 days.

Thanks for the tips. Looks like the end of the week will have the highest temperatures.

C'mon Scott...no one's gunna believe you have screens on your windows.

Probably not, but at least you believed me about the fridge and couch. :D

Mo, I don't know how rain affects newly applied caulk, but be mindful of possible rain later in the week. :)

Scott

Probably not, but at least you believed me about the fridge and couch. :D

Scott
The only part I believed is the part about the wife screaming.

I held the cable down temporarily using 6" strips of duct tape near the shingle seams...then squeezed the caulk into the shingle seams, over the cable, and into the seam again. Like, back-and-forth 2-3 times across, ending up with a 1" bead of silicone. I pulled the tape off the next day. Also, it was around 80° out, so the silicone may have set faster for me, then it will now....may take 2 days.

Won't this method, at a seam, create a silicon damn and force the water under the shingles which may be held up by the silicon under them? Do you have any wet spots in your attic?

Just a question.

Man. I'm getting jumpy. ;)

Walt

Won't this method, at a seam, create a silicon damn and force the water under the shingles which may be held up by the silicon under them? Do you have any wet spots in your attic?

Just a question.

Man. I'm getting jumpy. ;)

Walt
Nope, it's dry....been this way for 6 years. I used the shingle seams perpendicular to the roof line (gutters), rather than the ones parallel to the roof line. I think the water just flows right over, or around them. I also didn't pull the cable taunt, to allow the water to flow under it.

O.K.

Walt

Man. I'm getting jumpy. ;)
Walt
You'll be OK. I knew that fridge on the porch thing would get to you. :)

My wife said, "I don't care what the other guys have, you are NOT putting a fridge on the front porch...now go make sure Grey's is recording!"

Yep the problem is definitely the local FOX affiliate. ktviengineer has offered to help resolve this problem, but I don't think much progress has been made and I don't think he checks the board often. Altough he did request people to email him information with times and types of breakups that occur. Unfortunately, I lost the email address (although I think I could find it by searching the old thread).

Personally, I tried working with a different engineer a couple of years ago to fix problems with the broadcast. After, reducing the frequency of the breakups a little, the communications fell off. It's hard to get motivated to do it again when I can just watch the east coast feed of FOX on D* and not have any breakups.

The following three frames are typical of the breakup. This is OTA recorded by my Fusion HDTV PC tuner card. They occurred by my clock at (min:sec) 03:19, 07:40, and 08:28 into the broadcast. I just checked and my PC clock is within 1 sec of national standard time.

Please keep in mind, excess complaining does not motivate me to use my free time to help fix a problem at work. What does motivate me is my nature to be a perfectionist and the fact that I don't like video breakups on my tv either.

I'm done asking for your help and I've gathered this information for my boss (who is a pleasure to work for despite your previous posts). And yes, I know most of you know all of this information, but bear with me... I'm just being methodical....

1. The problem is local.
2. The problem is on both local and network programming.
3. It appears only on our digital signal.
4. The problem consists of short video and/or audio breakups.
5. The video breakups typically are in a "banding" pattern horizontally.
6. The problem is seen consistantly in all parts of the viewing radius.
7. The problem is not a reception issue, whereas many different recievers have experienced the breakups.
8. This issue makes fox2's digital/HD signal undesirable and at times, unwatchable.
9. etc. (yes, i know)


Anyway, I'll keep you updated if progress is made.
Thanks everybody.

Please keep in mind, excess complaining does not motivate me to use my free time to help fix a problem at work. What does motivate me is my nature to be a perfectionist and the fact that I don't like video breakups on my tv either.Well then, please keep in mind that KTVI-DT has effectively been BROKEN for the better part of the last year. If that sounds like "excessive" complaining, so be it.

And bringing "perfectionism" into this conversation seems a real hoot... :(

Level Playing Field Concerns Delay AT&T U-Verse in St. Charles

The following is from today's St. Louis Post Dispatch:
________________________________________________________

A proposal to allow AT&T, the state's largest telephone company, to offer video services in St. Charles ran into a delay Tuesday night at the City Council.

Supporters, including Mayor Patti York, said the proposed video services contract would give residents an alternative to the cable service offered by Charter Communications.

"This is just another opportunity for people to have a choice," York said of the measure, which is sponsored by Council President Bob Kneemiller, 4th Ward.

However, two council members — John Gieseke, 8th Ward, and Mark Brown, 3rd Ward — said they were concerned that the measure would give AT&T a better deal than Charter has under its existing cable franchise agreement with the city.

They said they weren't opposed to AT&T entering the video market but wanted to make sure the contracts were as equal as possible.

The legislation, negotiated by attorneys for AT&T and the city, calls for the city to get a 5 percent fee on gross receipts — the same percentage Charter pays. AT&T also would have to follow similar customer service rules.

Critics, including a Charter official, have complained that AT&T wouldn't be required to provide free video service to schools, libraries, police and fire stations, as Charter must. They also said the proposed agreement doesn't give the city the right to inspect AT&T's records regarding fees owed to the city. The city has that authority with Charter.

AT&T attorney John Medler Jr. said he wouldn't object to adding a provision regarding an audit or a yearly report. He said the AT&T service is offered only to residences.

Medler added that the agreements aren't identical because AT&T has to spend substantial amounts of money nationwide and take financial risks to upgrade its equipment to be able to offer the service.

"If you require a new entrant to live up to every single dot and iota, we can't come in," he said. He said competition would result in improved service and lower prices.

After a lengthy discussion, Kneemiller held up voting on the measure until a later meeting.

St. Charles would be the seventh city in the St. Louis area to approve a video agreement with AT&T. The company also is seeking agreements with more than 100 other Missouri communities.

The company also is pushing in the Missouri Legislature for a bill allowing it to get a statewide franchise covering all communities.

That measure, which was approved Tuesday by the Senate and sent to the House, also allows cable companies to opt out of their existing local agreements.

AT&T's service, called U-verse, would offer many of the same programs as cable but wouldn't work in the same way. Instead of delivering all channels to a home, AT&T would send one channel at a time as a customer selects it from a menu.
________________________________________________________

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information about HDTV and over-the-air reception. Although those messages were moved to the new thread here that was started in January, that information is still easily overlooked as the new thread is growing rapidly, approaching 50 pages in a relatively short period.

So, in order to make this introductory information more accessible, I will be periodically reposting this advisory/reminder note. The idea is to make the general resource information available here more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713839&&#post9713839)

Resources for Receiving Digital/HD OTA Local Stations via an Antenna (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713842&&#post9713842)

Frequently Asked Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9714728&&#post9714728)

Why Isn't KDNL-DT (ABC) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8072643&&#post8072643)

Why Isn't KMOV-DT (CBS) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9341270&&#post9341270)

New! St. Louis Blues in HD Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

2006 Survey Results: HDTV in St. Louis

Part 1: Profile of Survey Respondents (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713951&&#post9713951)

Part 2: Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713954&&#post9713954)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713956&&#post9713956)

Part 4: Customer Ratings for Charter, DirecTV & DISH HD Services (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713960&&#post9713960)

Part 5: Customer Ratings for Pay TV HD Channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713963&&#post9713963)

Part 6: Best Picture/Sound Ratings & HD Wish Lists (http://http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713965&&#post9713965)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

Level Playing Field Concerns Delay AT&T U-Verse in St. Charles

The following is from today's St. Louis Post Dispatch:
________________________________________________________

The legislation, negotiated by attorneys for AT&T and the city, calls for the city to get a 5 percent fee on gross receipts — the same percentage Charter pays. AT&T also would have to follow similar customer service rules.
________________________________________________________

Wow people. This could explain a lot of things wrong with Charter service. It seems the rules were written by politicians. :eek:

Walt

Please keep in mind, excess complaining does not motivate me to use my free time to help fix a problem at work. What does motivate me is my nature to be a perfectionist and the fact that I don't like video breakups on my tv either.

I'm done asking for your help and I've gathered this information for my boss (who is a pleasure to work for despite your previous posts). And yes, I know most of you know all of this information, but bear with me... I'm just being methodical....

1. The problem is local.
2. The problem is on both local and network programming.
3. It appears only on our digital signal.
4. The problem consists of short video and/or audio breakups.
5. The video breakups typically are in a "banding" pattern horizontally.
6. The problem is seen consistantly in all parts of the viewing radius.
7. The problem is not a reception issue, whereas many different recievers have experienced the breakups.
8. This issue makes fox2's digital/HD signal undesirable and at times, unwatchable.
9. etc. (yes, i know)


Anyway, I'll keep you updated if progress is made.
Thanks everybody.

KTVI,

I for one do appreciate your efforts. I too wish people would ease up on you, but not necessarily on KTVI. Bottom like is you shouldn't have to get involved to fix this. You have volunteered to help and I thank you. I have no right to complain since I said I would send photos and didn't, sorry. Anyway, some people like to be part of the problem and not part of the solution. I would hope that all of us can remain part of the solution.

Scott

KTVI,

I for one do appreciate your efforts. I too wish people would ease up on you, but not necessarily on KTVI. Bottom like is you shouldn't have to get involved to fix this. You have volunteered to help and I thank you. I have no right to complain since I said I would send photos and didn't, sorry. Anyway, some people like to be part of the problem and not part of the solution. I would hope that all of us can remain part of the solution.Scott, if my last note on KTVI was perceived as criticism, that was, in fact, my intent.

Good grief -- the digital transition is entering into its 8th year and more than 9 MILLION HDTVs were sold in the last 6 weeks of 2006, and yet these sort of basic problems go untended and as viewers we're left with the impression that no one running these stations gives a damn about anything other than advertising sales.

Efforts? Are there actually efforts being made to fix this problem? All evidence points to the opposite conclusion -- no one considers it anything like a priority. It sounds like once ktviengineering gets done sweeping the driveway, he might be allowed some time to figure out what the problem is with KTVI digital broadcasts -- for the PAST YEAR! No doubt there are higher priorities, but this is just ridiculous and to act like we're grateful that someone has promised to look into this -- WEEKS AGO -- is lame.

Maybe someone needs to wake up and note that we're well out of the experimental stage of digital broadcasting and any company that continues to trip over its own shoelaces should be regarded as and treated like amateurs until they conclusively prove otherwise.

Based on what I've observed since I became involved with HDTV in 1998 makes me thankful that the people involved in broadcast television in this country aren't actually responsible for something really important, like air traffic control or hospital emergency room operations. The only stations in this market that manage to rise above rank mediocrity in day-to-day digital operations are KDNL and KMOV, with the latter actually slipping rather than solidifying its reputation.

As a group, the companies that own and operate these stations would stumble and fumble around trying to organize a party if they were standing right inside the middle of a brewery.

End of rant.

I, too, don't understand why it's so hard to identify the cause of the KTVI problem. I'm in NYC this week, and I watched American Idol last night at some friends' house in Long Island. It was so nice not having to deal with the picture breakups/banding. (Now, the talent of the guys' group is another story. ;) )

Why is it that someone with the username "KTVIEngineering" claims it's not his job to help resolve this? Is he not in the engineering group?

I thought he had said he worked at all of the different stations and isn't actually THE engineer at KTVI.
Dug

I thought he had said he worked at all of the different stations and isn't actually THE engineer at KTVI.
Dug

He did say that.

Look, I agree with you Doug. It is disgraceful to have these issues this far along.
I do criticize KTVI and hold them responsible. I also speak with my wallet, so to speak, by mostly watching D* 88 since it has a flawless production. So, I don't support the local advertisers by seeing there ads. I just don't feel it is right to criticize KTVIengineering when he is going above and beyond the call of duty.

Scott

Channel 88 on *D isn't 100% glitch-free, either. Admittedly I'm not seeing the video breakups there, but every 5-10 minutes the audio on that channel stutters a bit, Porky-Pig-style. The picture is also visibly softer than KTVI OTA. I've been getting my 24 fix via *D 88 too, but it's not the perfect solution, either.

And just to keep things in perspective, while the criticism of KTVI is valid, it applies to kSDk about 300 times more than it does to KTVI.

Bob,

I stand corrected. I forgot about the Porky-the-Pig audio occasionally. Still, it is 99% better than the local KTVI crap.

Scott

Well, after 2 yrs of owning a HD capable plasma, I'm finally ready to venture beyond free OTA HD. I ordered a HD dish install and the HR20 DVR from DirectTV. The earliest install date they had available in this area was April 9. I chose a Saturday, April 14 afternoon install window. I asked for the slimline dish, but he said that depends on the local installer's existing stock. From what I've read, most people in this area have been getting the slimline dish, so I'm hopeful that will be the case. Hopefully it all goes well and I can post positive feedback. I've read the horror stories on dbstalk, but remain optimistic.

Thanks to those here that have provided feedback on your HR20 experience - just thought I'd let others know what the lead time is looking like for installs around here and say thanks for the input.

Next step - professional calibration. I'm may move slower than most with respect to adopting HD technology, but I suppose it's better than not moving at all :)

Nuzy

Wow Nuzy, I can't believe it takes that long to install. To me, that is entirely unnacceptable to have to wait that long. Man, I wish I had a business that was so booked up I had to make poeple wait 2 months. Anyway, congrats on the leap to satellite TV. You will love it.

Scott

April!?!?!

Yikes. That's nuts.


Congrats, though, on the new content (in 6 weeks). ;)

Thanks - I have D* now, just not the HD stuff. I'm looking forward to it. If it weren't for Sunday ticket I probably would have gone to DishNetwork, but I was able to get a good enough deal on the HR20 from DirectTV to stay (and keep the ticket). The guy said the installer might call if they have an opening come up due to cancellation, so we'll see. I may check on-line to look for an earlier install if I get impatient. I've read people have had some success with that. I've waited 2 yrs to make the leap to HD satellite, so I suppose 6 more weeks won't kill me.

I placed an order for an HR20 in early Jan and was given a mid March install date.

I was able to get mine moved up a few weeks by calling back a few days after placing the order. After complaining, I was put on hold an suddenly a new date was available. I'm in St. Peters and Premier did a great job on the install.

It's at least worth a shot ;)

Good luck,
Token

Is there even a way to do "self installs" these days. Can the gear be picked up at a local store and you or a friend do the install?

Scott

Firstly, I would like to introduce myself to everyone. I have been a lurker of this AVS forum/thread for a year (give or take a couple months). While I am interested in HDTV, I am a college student and therefore, an HDTV is not in my budget anytime soon :( . I considered complete Doug's survey late last year, but found it nearly impossible and impractical to complete from a non-HDTVer point of view. Anyway, I noticed a great bit of talk about NASCAR and the Daytona 500 and thought that the few who didn't totally disown it may enjoy the following article courteous of Jayski's racing news website:

HDNet to reair Daytona 500 2/22; to reair all Cup races:
HDNet begins Nextel Cup Series race coverage in high definition with the Daytona 500. Network to televise re-airs of Nextel Cup Series races each week from Daytona to Homestead. National cable network HDNet will re-air Nextel Cup Series races, beginning with the 2007 Daytona 500, this Thursday February 22nd, 9:30pm/et. This Nextel Cup Series coverage comes as the network extends their relationship with NASCAR, including a renewed agreement to air races from the NASCAR Grand National Division in 2007. This national race re-air is available in HDTV only on HDNet. Fans who wish to see the network’s coverage of NASCAR should contact their cable or satellite provider to sign up for HDNet. HDNet provides viewers with the best in original comedy, drama, news, sports and music programming.(HDNet PR)(2-21-2007)

Welcome Nascarfan999!

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know HDNET was going to re-air the "races." Of course, some on this thread will say they aren't "races." :)

Scott

Level Playing Field Concerns Delay AT&T U-Verse in St. Charles

However, two council members — John Gieseke, 8th Ward, and Mark Brown, 3rd Ward — said they were concerned that the measure would give AT&T a better deal than Charter has under its existing cable franchise agreement with the city.


So this is not perceived as a political commentary, I am familiar with Mark Brown as he is a member of the Saint Charles Lions Club.

The guy is an @$$ and I can see him making sure his opinion differs from others just for the spotlight.

On a side note, I am a member of the Harvester Lions club and we are having a Mouse Race
March25th. Proceeds benefit chartible organizations. $14 to get in, hotdogs, popcorn, chips & BEVERAGES provided.

Welcome Nascarfan999!

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know HDNET was going to re-air the "races." Of course, some on this thread will say they aren't "races." :)

Scott

Yep, Welcome and WOO HOO......HD Replay is COOL!!!

Yep, Welcome and WOO HOO......HD Replay is COOL!!!

Thank you for the welcome. I've been wanting to start posting here for quite some time, but just couldn't find the right time or thing to post. I'm actually rather surprised Doug or somebody else didn't beat me to the HD replays. Just to let you know how nice you have it, I had the pleasure of watching the Daytona 500 OTA via the Quincy, IL FOX station which is actually 10.3 (NBC is 10.1 and CW is 10.2). As you can imagine, there were some breakups due to the subchannels. To make matters worse, my college takes the feed and sends it to the dorm rooms via standard cable and somewhere along the way it gets put into mono audio. :(

I probably would have posted it but I didn't see it on Jayski's site until after you posted this. I've been in training
today and haven't been able to monitor the internet.

Welcome nascarfan999 and thanks for the heads up.

wm please enlighten me on a Mouse Race. Do you race mice?

Walt

Just a heads up for jazz fans, the Brubeck Brothers Quartet will be at the Sheldon this Saturday. Dad is doing well also. He has always been one of my favorites.

Walt

wm please enlighten me on a Mouse Race. Do you race mice?

Walt

Yep, it is like a horse race, except with little mice and a little track.

You can place bets on who will win, with fake money. There is also other
gaming things to do, but everything is done with fake money.

Yep, it is like a horse race, except with little mice and a little track.

You can place bets on who will win, with fake money. There is also other
gaming things to do, but everything is done with fake money.

Can anyone enter? If I brought my mouse and it won, would they check it for roids? :eek:

Sounds like a fun time.

Walt

No, the guy that owns the track, monitors, and camera brings his own mice.

I can't link to it, because it's a pay site, but the Wall Street Journal had an interesting article in Wednesday's edition about cable's plans for what amounts to an industrywide cable operating system that will make set-top boxes unnecessary and allow/foster third-party application development that would then work on a wide range of different cable systems.

In addition, several TV manufacturers are building displays that will have the Cable OS built-in, meaning that a customer would only need to connect the coax cable and all advanced services would be available without either an STB or a CableCard.

I don't have the article handy at the moment, but it indicated that Time Warner will begin rolling out the new system this spring, with indications that they hope to have it available on all their owned systems before the end of the year. Comcast was also said to be planning a rollout this year, but no word on plans for this by the local cable company (whose name can be found in another nearby AVS thread). ;)

Sorry if this is a bit sketchy, but I was traveling most of the day and somewhere along the line I misplaced the Marketplace section of the paper -- as a result, I'm recalling this from memory. If anyone else read this and I've got any of it wrong, don't hesitate to clarify...

Level Playing Field Concerns Delay AT&T U-Verse in St. Charles

The following is from today's St. Louis Post Dispatch:
________________________________________________________

A proposal to allow AT&T, the state's largest telephone company, to offer video services in St. Charles ran into a delay Tuesday night at the City Council.
...
However, two council members — John Gieseke, 8th Ward, and Mark Brown, 3rd Ward — said they were concerned that the measure would give AT&T a better deal than Charter has under its existing cable franchise agreement with the city.

They said they weren't opposed to AT&T entering the video market but wanted to make sure the contracts were as equal as possible.

The legislation, negotiated by attorneys for AT&T and the city, calls for the city to get a 5 percent fee on gross receipts — the same percentage Charter pays. AT&T also would have to follow similar customer service rules.

Critics, including a Charter official, have complained that AT&T wouldn't be required to provide free video service to schools, libraries, police and fire stations, as Charter must. They also said the proposed agreement doesn't give the city the right to inspect AT&T's records regarding fees owed to the city. The city has that authority with Charter.
________________________________________________________

At risk of going off topic, this shows the kind of politics we have in St. Charles. We have 12 schools, one library, one police station, and 5 fire stations within the City. With a population of over 60,000 I can't see where requiring service to 19 entities would put a dent in Charters budget. Our politicians sure know how to pick nits.

KTVI,

I for one do appreciate your efforts. I too wish people would ease up on you, but not necessarily on KTVI. Bottom like is you shouldn't have to get involved to fix this. You have volunteered to help and I thank you. I have no right to complain since I said I would send photos and didn't, sorry. Anyway, some people like to be part of the problem and not part of the solution. I would hope that all of us can remain part of the solution.

Scott

Thank you Scott,
You've summed up everything I would have posted much more eloqently than I could have said it.

Why is it that someone with the username "KTVIEngineering" claims it's not his job to help resolve this? Is he not in the engineering group?

FYI: There are two kinds of engineers in TV. Operations and Maintenance.
I am an operations engineer, not a maintenance engineer. This is clearly a maintenance/equiptment issue that is not caused by the action or inaction of an engineer. I do want to make it an issue that is well known by our maint./transmitter maint. staff.

It is unrealistic for this group to place any blame/pressure/etc on ME as an employee of KTVI. I am using my free time to communicate with the members of this forum and my coworkers to try to fix the problems. Unfortunately, I've gotten very little cooperation or support from this forum.

Finally, I'll be getting off the name "KTVIengineering."
I'll rejoin under a new name that doesn't give you the wrong idea.

I'll be posting under this name from now on to avoid confusion.

-David

Unfortunately, I've gotten very little cooperation or support from this forum. I think you might want to explain yourself a little better here, because I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one having a "WTF moment" this morning after reading this statement.

You've had several people here provide you with details on the time of the breakups and even screenshots of the same. FWIW, I never saw the point in having anyone do this for you, since you yourself have seen the problems firsthand. It's not like this happens infrequently or is something so subtle that it needs to be documented in detail -- you know it's happening and the station personnel responsible for the digital feed MUST know it's happening.

Frankly, I don't know what more the people on this forum can do in terms of cooperation or support, short of pooling funds, sending someone off to DeVry University and then implanting them at KTVI upon graduation.

Do you mind if I call you NOT for short?

Walt

Just to change the subject and ask both boxers to return to their corners...

Has anyone been able to connect a Charter Moxi or non-DVR box to a media center? IF so, how is it done?

And yes, I have posted the same questions on the Charter forum. (I hate having two forums to monitor...)

I read several posts from folks submitting specific dates & times and I believe one or two people said they would burn a DVD with the problems. I think this is moot since ktviengineering said he saw the same issues himself. But I think by him asking for more details and his original forum name implied he was either in a position to take ownership of this issue and/or following through. Instead, he complains to this forum and says he can't get any cooperation with his own co-workers and IMO this whole thing was misleading.

This was my nice version.

I read several posts from folks submitting specific dates & times and I believe one or two people said they would burn a DVD with the problems. I think this is moot since ktviengineering said he saw the same issues himself. But I think by him asking for more details and his original forum name implied he was either in a position to take ownership of this issue and/or following through. Instead, he complains to this forum and says he can't get any cooperation with his own co-workers and IMO this whole thing was misleading.

This was my nice version.

I agree, Mo.

I think this all boils down to KTVI not caring. They simply.don't.care. If they did, it'd be fixed. They'd have a real representative here explaining what they are doing to resolve the issue.

Wow, it's amazing how different people see things differently. I still stand my original observations and convictions. His second post on this forum stated "Yes it is, and I thought you might have some questions. Granted, I'm mostly an operations engineer, but I can probably do a little research if nothing else. After all, I dont' like these problems either."

He also went on to later say he would try to help in his spare time. The guy obviously wants to help and now he's getting flamed. Like I said before, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Dave, is part of the solution. He has asked for our help to solve the issues we bitch about. What is so wrong with that. If you really want to help, send him what he asks for. There is strength in #'s.

Rant off

So, there is NO knight-in-shining-armor?
I don't think Snow's gunna take this very well.

I had visions of an HD mini-series....sigh :(

Scott, it was the tone as well as content of the post below I was responding to.


Please keep in mind, excess complaining does not motivate me to use my free time to help fix a problem at work. What does motivate me is my nature to be a perfectionist and the fact that I don't like video breakups on my tv either.

I'm done asking for your help and I've gathered this information for my boss (who is a pleasure to work for despite your previous posts). And yes, I know most of you know all of this information, but bear with me... I'm just being methodical....

For any interested, the reply from DISH regarding MLB EI:
----- Original Message -----
From: Duffy, Mark
To: kdg454
Cc: Duffy, Mark
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: MLB EI

Dear Ken,

There is the potential of an exclusive deal between DIRECTV and MLB for MLB EXTRA INNINGS however we are unsure of MLB's intentions at this time.
Nothing is final yet and Dish Network subscribers are welcome to voice their concerns directly to MLB at the number below.

The Office of the Commissioner of Baseball
Allan H. (Bud) Selig, Commissioner
245 Park Avenue, 31st Floor
New York, NY 10167
Phone: (212) 931-7800

These types of exclusive deals lead to the inability of the consumer to choose the best programming options for the best prices.

Mark Duffy
Executive Resolution Team
EchoStar Satellite LLC
dba DISH Network
Phone: 720-514-8642
Fax: 303-723-2063
E-mail: mark.duffy@echostar.com

Nascarfan ... who are you? I graduated from QU in 2003.

Hello, is anybody out there?

CBS Network Announces Local Station Deals with Nine Cable Operators

The following is from today's TV Week online news summary:
_________________________________________________________

CBS appears to have signed retransmission deals with nine cable operators calling for cash retransmission fees.

The broadcast company on Thursday sent out an unusual press release: It disclosed neither terms of the deal nor the operators involved, citing confidentiality agreements with those operators.

CBS CEO Les Moonves told an investor conference last month that the company expected to get cash subscriber fees for retransmission. “Within the next couple of months you’re going to see a couple of announcements that we have with cable operators. . . . It could be $0.50 a sub.”

Mr. Moonves declared in Thursday’s announcement, “Clearly there is a new paradigm in the marketplace—one that recognizes the value of the content that we bring to our various audiences. This is a trend that bodes well for us going forward as future retransmission deals are negotiated.”

A clearer picture of the deals could emerge next week when CBS announces its earnings.
_________________________________________________________

To read the complete story, click here (http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11597)

ESPN Announces Revised HD Coverage Priorities

From the current TV Week High Definition Newsletter:
___________________________________________________

After years of dramatically increasing its HD coverage, ESPN is leveling off production in the format and shifting resources to seven popular sports franchises.

Bryan Burns, ESPN's vice president of strategic business planning and development, said the network is aiming for consistent HD coverage of its most popular fare, rather than offering varying degrees of HD coverage for many different sports.

ESPN plans HD coverage of all NASCAR races, National Basketball Association telecasts, Major League Soccer telecasts, Major League Baseball games, college football telecasts, National Hot Rod Association races and National Football League Monday Night Football telecasts. The network also plans to produce about 150 college basketball games a year in HD.

"In seven sports, fans no longer need to seek out high-definition events," Mr. Burns said.

The network will cut back HD production of events such as regional Little League baseball coverage, men's hockey championships and short-term events.

ESPN's total number of HD hours will be about the same as last year. The network produced 87 events in HD in 2003, 184 in 2004, 474 in 2005 (when sister network ESPN2 launched its HD simulcast) and 762 hours in 2006.
___________________________________________________

[QUOTE=DroptheRemote]CBS Network Announces Local Station Deals with Nine Cable Operators

I sure hope this will get CBS channel 4 back on Charter HD channel 784. Here in Alton it's not as simple as putting an antenna in my attic. I'm told I would need an antenna 5 to 10 feet above my roof peak for good OTA reception.

chuck,

This deal is relevant only to the stations that CBS itself owns and operates. KMOV is owned by Belo, so it remains for a deal to be worked out between Charter and Belo.

I'm surprised that you would have to erect an antenna that far about your rooftop to receive OTA channels from Alton. If you have an attic, I'd encourage you to try an attic-placed antenna before declaring defeat -- between the antenna and the coax run, you should be able to do this for around $100. If it really doesn't work and the rooftop option is a non-starter, you could return the antenna or sell it to someone here looking to get set up for OTA reception.

Of course, it might cost you more (or take more time) if you have to run the coax through walls etc for a permanent installation, but you can defer that step at least until you know it will work or not.

CNBC "Mad Money" Analyst Recommends Buy for Charter

No doubt this was spurred, at least in part, by Charter gaining its AVS St. Louis HDTV independence... ;)

The following is from the 24/7 Wall St. website:
___________________________________________________________

On tonight's MAD MONEY on CNBC, Jim Cramer says that you should buy a really bad name: Charter Communication (CHTR). He says it is a dog, and he has said it is a dog many times before. It has so much debt that it is choking on it, but now it can actually refinance the mountain of debt.

CHTR closed at $3.10, but it gapped up to $3.33 after Cramer touted it. Its year range is $0.88 to $3.58. Shares are up about 20% in the last 3 months. Cramer says the debt issues are trading at higher levels than they have seen in years, and he says that is a great sign. This paydown of debt may be enough to save them according to Cramer.

Five analysts are against it and five are holds, so he thinks they'll start to upgrade the stock. If the businesses were running bad then he'd say no way, but their Triple Play package is helping the stock play catch-up to the rest of the cable names like Comcast and Time Warner.

Cramer did say Level 3 (LVLT) has ramped up big since he made the same sort of call on it, but he thinks LVLT is in later innings compared to the run here.
___________________________________________________________

I spoke to antenna dealer here and he recommended 5-10 foot mast on top of roof. As I drive around (north Alton/Godfrey) I notice nearly everyone who has antenna has it about that high. IF it is not resolve soon, DirectTV or Dish might end up being cheaper than antenna/reciever, especially if DirectTV adds HD channels.

[...]HDNet to reair Daytona 500 2/22; to reair all Cup races:
HDNet begins Nextel Cup Series race coverage in high definition with the Daytona 500.[...]

Looks nice, and nice to be mostly commercial-free, but poor audio.
Center channel only, the rest are dead.

You don't see HDNET screw up very often.

I'd recommend trying Doug's attic solution first.
I'm 50+ miles from the towers, and though I use a large directional UHF antenna w/preamp, it is mounted on one of the overhead deck rails, which is about 15' *below* the roof-line of the house. I'd probably achieve the same results with a DB8 bowtie mounted in the same location.

Given, there's more to terrestrial reception than antenna height, it is still the most influencing factor.
Alton IL is only around 25 miles from the towers.

Good article in the Charter thread related to what Doug posted a couple of days ago:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9851004#post9851004

Oh, if you go there to read the story, no bickering allowed...mind your manners boys....and Mo :)

Wow, it's amazing how different people see things differently. I still stand my original observations and convictions. His second post on this forum stated "Yes it is, and I thought you might have some questions. Granted, I'm mostly an operations engineer, but I can probably do a little research if nothing else. After all, I dont' like these problems either."

He also went on to later say he would try to help in his spare time. The guy obviously wants to help and now he's getting flamed. Like I said before, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Dave, is part of the solution. He has asked for our help to solve the issues we bitch about. What is so wrong with that. If you really want to help, send him what he asks for. There is strength in #'s.

Rant off

Scott Tucker, you win a gold star. Seriously, You're awesome man.

Also, I have another question for anybody who might know. Did the blocking/audio dropout issue show up at any point in time or has it been a problem from the get-go of KTVI's DTV transmission?

Perhaps if it showed up around a certain time, the issue can be traced to an equipment upgrade or something like that.

Thanks...

Also, I have another question for anybody who might know. Did the blocking/audio dropout issue show up at any point in time or has it been a problem from the get-go of KTVI's DTV transmission?

Perhaps if it showed up around a certain time, the issue can be traced to an equipment upgrade or something like that.

Thanks...
The issue has been occuring for more than a year. I'll see if I can find my previous emails to the station to determine the timeframe. Regardless, it definitely has been occuring for more than a year.

The network will cut back HD production of events such as regional Little League baseball coverage, men's hockey championships and short-term events.
This is disturbing to me....hockey is one of the few sports that really benefits from HD :mad: If the NHL really want to get new fans interested I truely believe leveraging for more HD coverage is a way to help.

OK, maybe I like hockey.

NotGoliath,

Thanks for the compliment although many on this forum will disagree with you.

KTVI's problems did not always exist. I can't tell you when exactly it all started, but I seem to notice the blocking within the last 6 months especially. For people like me with the Directivo HD-DVR. The audio drop outs started with the now infamous 6.3a software update. My audio drop outs have been eliminated with the new 6.3b update, but the video breakups still exist. I do not get these video breakups on D* 88.

Dave, I appreciate all you are trying to do to help us get the HDTV experience we want. Please continue with your efforts despite all of the bickering.

Thanks,

Scott

This is disturbing to me....hockey is one of the few sports that really benefits from HD :mad: If the NHL really want to get new fans interested I truely believe leveraging for more HD coverage is a way to help.

OK, maybe I like hockey.

I agree, honestly, I could care less about hockey. But, I find myself watching it more and more when it's on in HD. Kinda like Ken now watching golf. :) Hockey is pretty cool I must admit, especially on a big screen when you can actually see the puck.

Scott

I sure hope this will get CBS channel 4 back on Charter HD channel 784. Here in Alton it's not as simple as putting an antenna in my attic. I'm told I would need an antenna 5 to 10 feet above my roof peak for good OTA reception.

I'd try some things before the mast, although I installed them on several houses when I was a kid and it wasn't very difficult (I still can't believe my parents let me do that!). I'm in St. Charles and have a hill and some houses in between me and the towers. I'm using the antenna I installed in the attic when we moved in 18 years ago. Also have the RG59 (skinny) coax. I needed to add an amplifier (a 4 port) to get the signal strength up, but that was it. Hopefully this spring I'll muster up enough energy to install a more suitable antenna and BG-6 cable.

I agree, honestly, I could care less about hockey. Scott


Irregardless, we didn't know that you liked hockey alot......haha, couldn't resist :D :D

I happened upon this site and found it had a great summary of articles about HDTV shows. There is an interesting story about the airing of a Simpson's episode in HD!! Did anyone notice?

http://www.tvweek.com/page.cms?pageId=183

Got my new mount (Chief) for my Sharp z3000 in last night and installed it this morning. Took about 1/2 hour to get it adjusted right. Lucky I got the universal mount, cause I have a vent pipe directly above where the PJ needs to be, so I had to use the extender arms to move the mount 3" to the right.

The lense offset and zoom length are perfect (7.5' ceilings and 11 ft from lense to screen) for my 106" screen (DIY using wood and blackout cloth, real screen material is my next investment)

Since the sun is up I have lot's of ambient light, but the picture is still very viewable and looks really good. My wife and I will be watching a couple of HD-DVD's this weekend along with LOST in HD. Can't wait.

For now I think I'll play some XBox 360...

Dave

This is disturbing to me....hockey is one of the few sports that really benefits from HD :mad: If the NHL really want to get new fans interested I truely believe leveraging for more HD coverage is a way to help.

OK, maybe I like hockey.

Keep in mind that since the NHL decided to move their coverage from ESPN to Vs, that ESPN could give two poos about the sport.

Here's to hoping that the NHL Network makes it in the states.

I know that it will probably require a long answer, but...
How does one go about getting HD from cable through a Windows Media Center? I presume I need a special video card. What else? Any help is appreciated!

This is disturbing to me....hockey is one of the few sports that really benefits from HD :mad: If the NHL really want to get new fans interested I truely believe leveraging for more HD coverage is a way to help.

OK, maybe I like hockey.


My guess is this refers to the NCAA men's hockey championships seeing how the NHL's national TV package is no longer on ESPN.

I happened upon this site and found it had a great summary of articles about HDTV shows. There is an interesting story about the airing of a Simpson's episode in HD!! Did anyone notice?

http://www.tvweek.com/page.cms?pageId=183

yeah I think someone posted that either in this thread or maybe over on the programming forum.

In a nutshell, cartoon producers want to do HD, but keep it at 4:3. If they switch to 16:9 they'll have to reproduce new backgrounds and I suppose possibly more animation and obtain new cells to work on. In other words it would take longer to produce an episode and cost more. Network people want HD too, but want it 16:9.


ALl I know is that I didn't care about cartoons in HD until I saw the Simpsons movie trailer last week! :eek: In the words of Comic Book Guy, "Best trailer ever!"

NotGoliath,

........KTVI's problems did not always exist. I can't tell you when exactly it all started, but I seem to notice the blocking within the last 6 months especially. For people like me with the Directivo HD-DVR. The audio drop outs started with the now infamous 6.3a software update. My audio drop outs have been eliminated with the new 6.3b update, but the video breakups still exist. I do not get these video breakups on D* 88........

Thanks,

Scott

NotGoliath,

I have a different (Dish Network) setup and experience the breakups via OTA. I too, am not certain when this all started, but it is relatively recent. However, I recall seeing it with last season's 24. So it has been going on for a year or so. If anything, the breakups have gotten more frequent as of late. My signal strength is pegged at 100 in Creve Coeur.

Keep in mind that since the NHL decided to move their coverage from ESPN to Vs, that ESPN could give two poos about the sport.

Here's to hoping that the NHL Network makes it in the states.


HDNet has the best hockey coverage!

I know that it will probably require a long answer, but...
How does one go about getting HD from cable through a Windows Media Center? I presume I need a special video card. What else? Any help is appreciated!

You will probably need firewire and you can find it here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

Make sure you get the remote control programs.

Walt

Yes, I realize that ESPN no longer carries the NHL and that it is on VS. However, I believe it is on VS because ESPN no longer wanted to carry the NHL due to the lockout and lost advertizing revenues. Anyway, the more hockey in HD, the better; especially for the causual viewer that claims "they can't follow the puck". The wider field of view means less camera panning to follow the puck.

And yes, HDNet does have the best hockey coverage. Other sports networks should really follow their lead with the small scoreboard.

The VS HD coverage is terrible. I saw part of the All Star game. It was impossible to follow the puck. They flipped, zoomed, panned, and every other thing. It's like they want to make you nauseous. HDNet does hockey right...
Dug

I know that it will probably require a long answer, but...
How does one go about getting HD from cable through a Windows Media Center? I presume I need a special video card. What else? Any help is appreciated!

I don't mess with cable-provided HD thru my WMC, but do use an excellent *USB* HD tuner solution for OTA HD.

Pinnacle's PCTV 800e is compatible with both XP and Vista, costs around $100 (Best Buy). The included software is garbage, no need for it, install the drivers for your OS and it works with Windows Media Center perfectly.

I use an Xbox 360 as a Windows Extender to provide the PC-recorded content to my HDTV, picture quality is excellent. The hard drive limitations of the Moxie, and the loss of Moxie HD recording capability for CBS and ABC, are overcome by this setup.

HDNet has the best hockey coverage!

I'm sure all good Blues hockey fans are aware, but I'll say it anyway, next Blues FSN HD broadcast is next Tuesday, 7pm Feb 27th, home against the Canuckleheads. :)

How'd you like that Sabres/Senators brawl? Goalies included. :D

Irregardless, we didn't know that you liked hockey alot......haha, couldn't resist :D :D

Good one! :D I think you're funny regardless of what everyone else says.

Scott

I'm sure all good Blues hockey fans are aware, but I'll say it anyway, next Blues FSN HD broadcast is next Tuesday, 7pm Feb 27th, home against the Canuckleheads. :)

How'd you like that Sabres/Senators brawl? Goalies included. :D


St. Louis has a hockey team?

St. Louis has a hockey team?

That's the rumor . . . still trying to confirm . . .

Got my new mount (Chief) for my Sharp z3000 in last night and installed it this morning. Took about 1/2 hour to get it adjusted right. Lucky I got the universal mount, cause I have a vent pipe directly above where the PJ needs to be, so I had to use the extender arms to move the mount 3" to the right.

The lense offset and zoom length are perfect (7.5' ceilings and 11 ft from lense to screen) for my 106" screen (DIY using wood and blackout cloth, real screen material is my next investment)

Since the sun is up I have lot's of ambient light, but the picture is still very viewable and looks really good. My wife and I will be watching a couple of HD-DVD's this weekend along with LOST in HD. Can't wait.

For now I think I'll play some XBox 360...

Dave

Glad to hear everything worked out well with the Sharp. Chiefmfg.com has all the mounting equipment you'd want. I was trying to think how I could build something that would give me the kind of mounting flexibility I needed for my Sharp. I was posting in a Da-Lite High Power screen thread and mentioned what I was trying to do. I had an answer in about 3 seconds about Chief. AVS is such a valuable resource! My old Stewart Firehawk 109" frame is sitting in my basement now, if anyone is interested.

Okay, this is going to be somewhat off topic but I am dying here.

I'm outta town on the east coast and the TV here sux...

Man, I love Central Time programming. I'm used to Fox showing Seinfeld at 10pm after the news.
Here, I get Raymond at 11:30pm..after the news that goes FOREVER.

It is 5:36 here and I am just going insane waiting for some real programming to start.

EDIT: And....I hate analog cable. It kills me changing the channel and not knowing what I am watching. (no program banner on the screen).

I can't believe how much I miss a DVR. Luckily I am able to watch a DirecTV DVR provided Slingbox from a family member.

Uugh...How do you folks live with:

1. Analog cable
2. No DVR
3. SD TV

Oh yeah, anyone need any Devil Dogs?

Okay, this is going to be somewhat off topic but I am dying here.

I'm outta town on the east coast and the TV here sux...

Man, I love Central Time programming. I'm used to Fox showing Seinfeld at 10pm after the news.
Here, I get Raymond at 11:30pm..after the news that goes FOREVER.

It is 5:36 here and I am just going insane waiting for some real programming to start.

EDIT: And....I hate analog cable. It kills me changing the channel and not knowing what I am watching. (no program banner on the screen).

I can't believe how much I miss a DVR. Luckily I am able to watch a DirecTV DVR provided Slingbox from a family member.

Uugh...How do you folks live with:

1. Analog cable
2. No DVR
3. SD TV
where ya at, Bill?

HerNdon, VA. Just outside DC. Driving up to Baltimore on Sunday.

EDIT: I forgot the N

Herdon, VA. Just outside DC. Driving up to Baltimore on Sunday.
It's Herndon....know it well...lived in Sterling in the 80's. Course, back then, Herndon was a 2-horse town. I was through there in Sept...man, it's changed! You going to see the Harbor in Baltimore?

Ooops. I missed the other NNNN...I kept looking at it saying "that ain't right"

Yeah, going to ESPNzone next week sometime. I used to live up here about a decade ago.

I have made frequent trips up here in the past year. I hate ANALOG cable.

My lovely bride and I have frequented Phillips Seafood over the years.

Okay, once again I need to make a request for a meet.

I have met Scott, holy crap he is old :D

But I would like to meet everyone.

Once again, requirements would be a Blu Ray, HD DVD, DirecTV, Dish, and DIGITAL charter.

Okay, maybe not ALL of them, but I really would like to see a real world side by side of HD DVD & Blu Ray. (or is it blue-ray.)

Anyone???? Like I said, all I can offer is a uncalibrated 65 inch Mitsubishi RPTV, HD DVD Xbox360 DVD player, and DirecTV.

So now that its been a while since Charter / Belo dumped channel 4 HD, I wonder how many folks switched to satellite? There sure was heavy discussion about it. I looked into it but have not taken the plunge yet (probably because I had OTA capability). I rarely watch KMOV or KDNL simply because the guide is not contiguous with the rest of the HD channels and that is where I usually "surf".

How many of you have switched?

So now that its been a while since Charter / Belo dumped channel 4 HD, I wonder how many folks switched to satellite? There sure was heavy discussion about it. I looked into it but have not taken the plunge yet (probably because I had OTA capability). I rarely watch KMOV or KDNL simply because the guide is not contiguous with the rest of the HD channels and that is where I usually "surf".

How many of you have switched?
I'm (perhaps naively) hoping they will work it out in next couple of months. If not will probably wait until DIRECTV adds HD channels later this year and make decision. WE watch CBS for about 80% of our viewing hours, so it is a drag.

So now that its been a while since Charter / Belo dumped channel 4 HD, I wonder how many folks switched to satellite? There sure was heavy discussion about it. I looked into it but have not taken the plunge yet (probably because I had OTA capability). I rarely watch KMOV or KDNL simply because the guide is not contiguous with the rest of the HD channels and that is where I usually "surf".

How many of you have switched?

I'm waiting till leaves pop out on the big freaking trees behind my house becaise I had line of sight issues when I last tried for SAT several years ago. I'll try again in May or so... unless Charter/Belo/Sinclair come to their senses.
barry

Okay, once again I need to make a request for a meet.

I have met Scott, holy crap he is old :D

But I would like to meet everyone.

Once again, requirements would be a Blu Ray, HD DVD, DirecTV, Dish, and DIGITAL charter.

Okay, maybe not ALL of them, but I really would like to see a real world side by side of HD DVD & Blu Ray. (or is it blue-ray.)

Anyone???? Like I said, all I can offer is a uncalibrated 65 inch Mitsubishi RPTV, HD DVD Xbox360 DVD player, and DirecTV.

Dude,

Are you drunk? Has analog cable driven you mad? LOL.

I don't know anyone who has all of the above for a meet. I could certainly host one, but no way I'm mounting another dish just to have E* for the day. Oh, and nothing Sony is allowed in my house, so no Bluray either. I can offer D* in HD or SD, OTA, Xbox 360's HD-DVD add-on, SACD, DVD-Audio, and vinyl because remember I'm "old" and I do have a turntable. Oh, and Bill, you are no spring chicken. ;)

Scott

FCC Chief Pitches Multicasting As Way to Foster "New" Stations

The following is from today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
___________________________________________________________

In his ongoing push to promote multicast, Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin again floated the idea of allowing small, independent entities that want to get into the video business to lease part of an existing broadcaster's spectrum to distribute their own programming.

Martin made the pitch during today's FCC Media Ownership hearing in Harrisburg, Pa., saying multicast programming delivered by smaller entities could "obtain all the accompanying rights and obligations of other broadcast stations, such as public interest obligations and carriage rights."
___________________________________________________________

FCC Chief Pitches Multicasting As Way to Foster "New" Stations

The following is from today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
___________________________________________________________

In his ongoing push to promote multicast, Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin again floated the idea of allowing small, independent entities that want to get into the video business to lease part of an existing broadcaster's spectrum to distribute their own programming.

Martin made the pitch during today's FCC Media Ownership hearing in Harrisburg, Pa., saying multicast programming delivered by smaller entities could "obtain all the accompanying rights and obligations of other broadcast stations, such as public interest obligations and carriage rights."
___________________________________________________________

EVERYONE seems to have forgotten the promise of high quality television that was made when this digital transition started. Sure, there were other compelling reasons to do it - to free up bandwidth for emergency services, for instance, but the carrot for the viewer was the promise of HDTV. Maybe the FCC chairman believes that "digital quality" means high quality, while it can mean quality worse than what we had if you steal its bits for multicasting.

So sad.

FCC Chief Pitches Multicasting As Way to Foster "New" Stations

The following is from today's Evening Bridge market close newsletter:
___________________________________________________________

In his ongoing push to promote multicast, Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin again floated the idea of allowing small, independent entities that want to get into the video business to lease part of an existing broadcaster's spectrum to distribute their own programming.

Martin made the pitch during today's FCC Media Ownership hearing in Harrisburg, Pa., saying multicast programming delivered by smaller entities could "obtain all the accompanying rights and obligations of other broadcast stations, such as public interest obligations and carriage rights."
___________________________________________________________

I wouldn't mind this sort of thing from channels 24 and 46 (which obviously have no intention of broadcasting HD anyway). For that matter, KTVI's bitrate is low enough I don't think we'd notice any change if a channel 2-2 suddenly appeared... but if a channel 4-3, 5-3, or 11-3 were to appear due to the stations leasing bandwidth to someone else, there'd be hell to pay!

Dude,

Are you drunk?

Scott

As a matter of fact, yes I was. :D

And yes, I'm turning into an old fart.

As a matter of fact, yes I was. :D

And yes, I'm turning into an old fart.

Funny. I thought you were having a bit too much fun. :) Hope you're feeling alright this morning.

OK, it's official. I want The Golf Channel in HD. I'm watching the Match Play Championships in SD and it I'm missing the beautiful pictures CBS delivered last week. Does any program provider have TGC in HD?

Scott

As a matter of fact, yes I was. :D

And yes, I'm turning into an old fart.

I AM an old fart but I smell sweet. :D

If you wanted to see all those things plus HD firewire recordings from a cable DVR, Clarence lives in Virginia. I have never known him to turn down someone who wanted to see his theater. He has all of these plus a G90 display at 1080p. He is one of the nices gentlemen I have ever met. He is also the most frugal searcher on this board. A little DEW and perhaps we could have arranged it.

Walt

And yes, I'm turning into an old fart.

:confused: Turning?

Okay, once again I need to make a request for a meet.
I have met Scott, holy crap he is old :D
But I would like to meet everyone.
Once again, requirements would be a Blu Ray, HD DVD, DirecTV, Dish, and DIGITAL charter.
Okay, maybe not ALL of them, but I really would like to see a real world side by side of HD DVD & Blu Ray. (or is it blue-ray.)
Anyone???? Like I said, all I can offer is a uncalibrated 65 inch Mitsubishi RPTV, HD DVD Xbox360 DVD player, and DirecTV.
Bill,
I'd love to go, though you may have to convince others to let me.
Unfortunately, I haven't much to offer in the way of equipment. I don't have and HiDef DVD capability.

The only 2 items I could bring is my 17" LCD HDTV, and one of the DISH HD DVR's (622). Note here, it's not necessary to have a SAT feed to view pre-recorded material from the disk. I could pre-record a sampling of the DISH Local HD's, OTA HD's, VOOM, and any other DISH HD material. The 622 would only require component + audio, either R/W or optical.

So, I probably fall into the "too old," and "to- big-a-mouth" category to attend, but that's the only equipment I can offer.

So now that its been a while since Charter / Belo dumped channel 4 HD, I wonder how many folks switched to satellite? There sure was heavy discussion about it. I looked into it but have not taken the plunge yet (probably because I had OTA capability). I rarely watch KMOV or KDNL simply because the guide is not contiguous with the rest of the HD channels and that is where I usually "surf".

How many of you have switched?

I have an E* installer here right now. This was supposed to get done last week, but due to snow was pushed off til today. Now the guy is waiting for someone to bring him the flat roof mount that is held down by concrete blocks. I guess the brick on my old house is too brittle. I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm having the most problems getting HD reception here in Troy, IL. I'm getting the channel IDs.. but no broadcast AV signal.

I'm having the most problems getting HD reception here in Troy, IL. I'm getting the channel IDs.. but no broadcast AV signal.
Can we get some more info Chris?
OTA?
Did this just start today?
Are all the locals out?

I'm actually just setting it up. Yes, just trying to pick up the OTA HD stations.

I have a Winegard PR4400.

Chris

I'm just across 55 off Glen Crossing Road in Glen Carbon. I am getting everything from MyHD in the computer. Where are you located. Perhaps you are pointed in the wrong direction.

Walt

I'm actually just setting it up. Yes, just trying to pick up the OTA HD stations.

I have a Winegard PR4400.
You are getting signal strength, but no AV, correct? That would sound like you're receiving signal from the antenna to the tuner.
Are you feeding the OTA feed directly into your ATSC TV tuner...a ATSC STB?
Have you been to antennaweb.org to get your point?

You are getting signal strength, but no AV, correct? That would sound like you're receiving signal from the antenna to the tuner.
Are you feeding the OTA feed directly into your ATSC TV tuner...a ATSC STB?
Have you been to antennaweb to get your point?

Yeah, I'm going from the matching transformer on the antenna right to the HD input on my TV (yes, it has the ATSC tuner built-in).

A compass orientation of 240 degrees should cover most of the stations I thought...

Chris

I'm just across 55 off Glen Crossing Road in Glen Carbon. I am getting everything from MyHD in the computer. Where are you located. Perhaps you are pointed in the wrong direction.

Walt

I'm right on highway 40 in Troy.

Yeah, I'm going from the matching transformer on the antenna right to the HD input on my TV (yes, it has the ATSC tuner built-in).

A compass orientation of 240 degrees should cover most of the stations I thought...
If you're in/or near 62294, around 250°, but that is not enough to be causing the issue. Are you certain you have the "front" side of the antenna pointed towards the front? If so, it is probably not an antenna issue, especially when you're receiving signal.
Your cabling and connections are all new? Where is your mount....roof...attic...indoors by TV?

I have it indoors in a spare room. For now, I have the coax just running along the floor (I don't own this place and will be moving into my own home in a few months...).

Well, I could be confused about the antenna. It seems to have two sets of elements ("small/flat" and "large/tubular" which you bolt to each other).. but it has two sets of those. According to the instructions (poorly written) you only use one set of elements for the PR4400?

I have it indoors in a spare room. For now, I have the coax just running along the floor (I don't own this place and will be moving into my own home in a few months...).

Well, I could be confused about the antenna. It seems to have two sets of elements ("small/flat" and "large/tubular" which you bolt to each other).. but it has two sets of those. According to the instructions (poorly written) you only use one set of elements for the PR4400?
The smaller horizontal struts face front, or towards your compass point.
Here's the Winegard Installation Manual:
http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/1450464.PDF
This is the 8800...just has double the elements.

It's not as complex as the instructions imply :)

Haha... I'm a moron...

Apparently you have to tell the television to scan for all of the HD channels. I've been getting a perfectly fine signal the ENTIRE TIME
I'm getting:

2-1 KTVIDT
4-1 KMOV
4-2 KMOV-SD (Comes up, but doesn't show anything? I get all information, scans as a channel.. but shows no audio/video)
5-1 KSDK-DT (Breaks up a lot..)
5-2 KSDK-WX (Breaks up a lot..)
11-1 CW11-DT (Stutters/breaks up..)
11-2 CW11-D2 (Stutters..)
24-1 KNLC-DT
30-1 KDNL-DT
39-1 RF39-1
39-2 RF39-2
39-3 RF39-3
39-4 RF39-4
46-1 WRBU-DT

Glad you got it working. You're getting just about what everyone else gets.
Enjoy! KSDK should be consistent.
4-2 is blank.
11-1 just sucks.

Glad you got it working. You're getting just about what everyone else gets.
Enjoy! KSDK should be consistent.
4-2 is blank.
11-1 just sucks.

Any idea what I could do to remedy the KSDK problem? Basically.. move it around until it doesn't screw up?

Any idea what I could do to remedy the KSDK problem? Basically.. move it around until it doesn't screw up?
First, try tilting the antenna up a few degrees....2-4.
Antennaweb (thought not the final say) shows your LOS to be close to 250°, so you may want to do some probing to get the best aim.
If you don't already know, probing is a process of getting the antenna aimed to receive the best possible reception for the channels you want to receive.

Any idea what I could do to remedy the KSDK problem? Basically.. move it around until it doesn't screw up?

Sorry, I've been gone. Grandchild to basketball. Glad to see you have it working. I also have a small problem with 4, 5, and 9. If I get 5 well, I get 9 but have dropped signal on 4. If I get 4 and 5 well, I have dropped signal on 9. It is just about a 2 degree tweak with the rotor but it is still annoying. I do have large trees near me that caused multipath. I think the ice storms we had helped that out. The neighbor had to remove 2 trees. Enjoy your HD. You will be hooked if you aren't already.

Walt

I spoke about switching over to Dish Net from Charter as well. I have not pulled the trigger yet, but my finger is getting very itchy! Right this minute I am watching the Busch Series Qualification run in stretched SD on my plasma and I am kicking myself every minute for not calling Dish Net a month ago. Now I am starting to look into it again, we have 5 tv's and 2 of them are HD so I do not know if I will be able to make it work. Thanks, Jeff

I wouldn't mind this sort of thing from channels 24 and 46 (which obviously have no intention of broadcasting HD anyway). For that matter, KTVI's bitrate is low enough I don't think we'd notice any change if a channel 2-2 suddenly appeared... but if a channel 4-3, 5-3, or 11-3 were to appear due to the stations leasing bandwidth to someone else, there'd be hell to pay!

I have no way to measure Bit rate and must wonder how you do that. I find it interesting that KTVI has such a low bit rate when they appear to have no subs slicing up the pie. Could this possibly be the cause of the constant breakups? Maybe something else is streaming in the background eating up more than its fair share of bandwidth.

Perhaps Mr. NoG... will chime in to shed some light??????

I don't know about the low bitrate on KTVI, but at least one station in this market is providing the local digital bandwidth required by Disney's Moviebeam service.

I'm still trying to figure out where that's coming from.

The low bitrate (around 9 to 11 mbps) on KTVI has been there from the beginning, but the video glitches are a relatively recent phenomenon.

The low bitrate (around 9 to 11 mbps) on KTVI has been there from the beginning, but the video glitches are a relatively recent phenomenon.
At least a year. I know both AI and 24 are the same this season, as last season.

With all the subs popping up, it is quite possible there is subs running on KTVI which we cannot see yet, yes?

it is quite possible there is subs running on KTVI which we cannot see yet, yes?Or, they are devoting 8 Mbps to a black frame...

Or, they are devoting 8 Mbps to a black frame...
KMOV left that 4-2 on after the election coverage. Maybe they use it internally for some other things? KMOV doesn't have much in the way of break-ups, perhaps they monitor their DT on it :confused:

One day, about a month ago, DISH was doing some heavy changes in what they call their virtual channel lists. They're a 14xxx channel number, used in someway with the guide data for the sub channels. Anyway, I saw a KTVI-DT5 listed. I don't know what it means, or what it's for, it's gone now. It was removed during some of the major changes.

It's just interesting, DISH has a spot for guide data, attached to a -5 subchannel for KTVI.

KMOV left that 4-2 on after the election coverage. Maybe they use it internally for some other things? KMOV doesn't have much in the way of break-ups, perhaps they monitor their DT on it :confused:

One day, about a month ago, DISH was doing some heavy changes in what they call their virtual channel lists. They're a 14xxx channel number, used in someway with the guide data for the sub channels. Anyway, I saw a KTVI-DT5 listed. I don't know what it means, or what it's for, it's gone now. It was removed during some of the major changes.

It's just interesting, DISH has a spot for guide data, attached to a -5 subchannel for KTVI.

KMOV might not have break-ups, but they suffer huge macro blocking now that wasn't there prior to 4-2. It is really easy to see on shows like CSI Miami.

Or, they are devoting 8 Mbps to a black frame...

What is a "black frame"?

Channel 4-2 is a black frame. A signal that is present but only a 4:3 black picture.

BTW, I search FCC.gov and couldn't find any ancillary applications from any station other
than KETC showing they are making money off of their digital stream by sending data out
for someone else.

Also, moviebeam says they use local PBS stations.

I would think WRACER would know who is sending out the moviebeam service.

Anybody seeing audio sync issues with Star Trek on OTA reception? I don't see it on the Standard def signal. Only on the digital signal. Noticed it last week as well but thought it was my UPGRADE to Vista media center. Everything else seems to have recorded correctly this week including Lost.

Now that you mention it Bill, CSI-M's PQ is much lower than it was last season. I doesn't seem as crisp, rich and sharp as I remember it being.

KMOV-DT Reception Issues

I just got a Toshiba 47LZ196 this week and have had no success locking in KMOV-DT for any length of time.

Using an in-attic antenna with no splitting/amplification, here are my Signal Meter scores from the Toshiba's menus during a 1-2 minute survey each:
Channel Peak MinValue
14 KNLC 88 84
26 KPLR 94 92
31 KDNL 92 90
35 KSDK 88 84
39 KETC 90 88
43 KTVI 98 94
47 WRBU 98 94
56 KMOV 69 0

KMOV will go up to the 60s, down to the single digits, unlock and go back up to the 60s again several times a minute. It is totally unwatchable. This has happened over the last several days with no clear pattern. With no splitters/amps in the way to add problems and the fact I don't show similar results with any of the other locals, I'm stumped when it comes to finding a resolution. Does anyone have any ideas or similar experiences?

KMOV-DT Reception Issues

I just got a Toshiba 47LZ196 this week and have had no success locking in KMOV-DT for any length of time.

Using an in-attic antenna with no splitting/amplification, here are my Signal Meter scores from the Toshiba's menus during a 1-2 minute survey each:
Channel Peak MinValue
14 KNLC 88 84
26 KPLR 94 92
31 KDNL 92 90
35 KSDK 88 84
39 KETC 90 88
43 KTVI 98 94
47 WRBU 98 94
56 KMOV 69 0

KMOV will go up to the 60s, down to the single digits, unlock and go back up to the 60s again several times a minute. It is totally unwatchable. This has happened over the last several days with no clear pattern. With no splitters/amps in the way to add problems and the fact I don't show similar results with any of the other locals, I'm stumped when it comes to finding a resolution. Does anyone have any ideas or similar experiences?
I must be the last one up. Usually people jump on this question quickly. Anyway, go to this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9834899&highlight=housekeeping#post9834899
Most everything you need is there.
Go to antennaweb.org and make sure your antenna is up to snuff. My experience, you'll probably need an amplifier. I use two in series. Probably because my antenna is in the attic and it's 19 years old. I don't recommend this approach, I'm just saying I made it work. My nemesis stations are KPLR and KSDK.

KMOV will go up to the 60s, down to the single digits, unlock and go back up to the 60s again several times a minute. It is totally unwatchable. This has happened over the last several days with no clear pattern. With no splitters/amps in the way to add problems and the fact I don't show similar results with any of the other locals, I'm stumped when it comes to finding a resolution. Does anyone have any ideas or similar experiences?This sounds like a case of multipath interference.

Multipath is just what it sounds like -- the signal from one or more stations is arriving at your antenna from multiple paths, most likely as a result of it bouncing or reflecting off some topographical or man-made object as it travels between the the station transmitter to your home. In the analog world, multipath resulted in out-of-sync, multiple images on screen that were often referred to as ghosts; in the digital world, the second signal causes the receiver to null out the signal until it can lock on a single signal. This explains why you intermittently receive picture/sound and then nothing.

Multipath can be fiendishly difficult to eliminate, but antenna placement can help. If you can, move your antenna a few feet left or right, up or down, or play with angle of orientation. The goal in repositioning is to try to find a spot where the antenna will not see the secondary signal that is causing the multipath.

FWIW, over time the digital receivers have become more adept at rejecting multipath signals, with each generation doing slightly better in this regard than the last. If you're using an older receiver, an upgraded, more current receiver may help, but there's no guarantee that would cure your problem.

Good luck.

We Interrupt Your Normal AVS Programming...

...for the following St. Louis housekeeping break:

In the past, we used to begin each month of the St. Louis discussion with an entirely new thread and usually that started with a cut/paste of basic resource information about HDTV and over-the-air reception. Although those messages were moved to the new thread here that was started in January, that information is still easily overlooked as the new thread is growing rapidly, approaching 50 pages in a relatively short period.

So, in order to make this introductory information more accessible, I will be periodically reposting this advisory/reminder note. The idea is to make the general resource information available here more visible and easier to find for more readers.

With HDTV sales increasing every month, we're getting more and more newcomers here, which is a great thing to see. But like most of us when we took home our first HDTV, there's a huge amount to learn beyond where to point the remote and which buttons to push.

Hopefully, you'll find this information of some use...

Tower Maps, Your Satellite/Antenna Rights & Local Station Feedback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713839&&#post9713839)

Resources for Receiving Digital/HD OTA Local Stations via an Antenna (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713842&&#post9713842)

Frequently Asked Questions about HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2995791&&#post2995791)

HD Programming Available in St. Louis (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9714728&&#post9714728)

Why Isn't KDNL-DT (ABC) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8072643&&#post8072643)

Why Isn't KMOV-DT (CBS) Available via Charter? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9341270&&#post9341270)

New! St. Louis Blues in HD Schedule (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8678636&&#post8678636)

2006 Survey Results: HDTV in St. Louis

Part 1: Profile of Survey Respondents (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713951&&#post9713951)

Part 2: Local Digital Stations (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713954&&#post9713954)

Part 3: Digital Multicasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713956&&#post9713956)

Part 4: Customer Ratings for Charter, DirecTV & DISH HD Services (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713960&&#post9713960)

Part 5: Customer Ratings for Pay TV HD Channels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713963&&#post9713963)

Part 6: Best Picture/Sound Ratings & HD Wish Lists (http://http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9713965&&#post9713965)

Finally, I want to remind everyone that you can access the St. Louis HDTV discussion here at AVS directly by using the shortcut URL that has been arranged.

The short-form URL also makes it very easy to remember and give the address to anyone you know who's just getting into HDTV.

The shortcut URL is: www.stlhdtv.info

BTW, I search FCC.gov and couldn't find any ancillary applications from any station other
than KETC showing they are making money off of their digital stream by sending data out
for someone else.

Also, moviebeam says they use local PBS stations.

I would think WRACER would know who is sending out the moviebeam service.Bill, you're correct that Disney has a national deal with PBS stations for Moviebeam bandwidth. It's just hard for me to believe that KETC could be sending out an HD feed and multiple subchannels as well as carving out a chunk of bandwidth for Moviebeam.

But then, I'm probably just being stubborn in my belief that stations actually care about what their digital signal looks like in our homes, despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, that must be it -- I'm a hopeless optimist on this topic... :D

KMOV left that 4-2 on after the election coverage. Maybe they use it internally for some other things? KMOV doesn't have much in the way of break-ups, perhaps they monitor their DT on it :confused:



I doubt it. KMOV is the worst offender this year in terms of reduced picture quality and the numbers bear it out.

I record CSI Miami regularly with my FusionHDTV card and cut the commercials with VideoReDo. Last season and the first few episodes of this season, the resulting 42-44 minute files were about 17mbps and had filesizes in the 5.6gB range. Since the election last year, I've yet to see one episode take up more than 4.75 gigs. They're more like 14mbps now. :mad:

What's odd is, KPLR actually broadcasts something on its dash two channel (TheShaft, I mean the Tube) and its bitrate on the main channel is a little lower than KMOV's. But I find KPLR's picture quality better than KMOV's. I'm at a loss to explain that one? :confused:

But hey, let's all look at the bright side....

With all this bitshaving, both over the air and on satellite, our HD DVR's can hold more shows WITHOUT us having to buy bigger hard drives! (okay, sarcasm off).

KMOV-DT Reception Issues

I just got a Toshiba 47LZ196 this week and have had no success locking in KMOV-DT for any length of time.

Using an in-attic antenna with no splitting/amplification, here are my Signal Meter scores from the Toshiba's menus during a 1-2 minute survey each:
Channel Peak MinValue
14 KNLC 88 84
26 KPLR 94 92
31 KDNL 92 90
35 KSDK 88 84
39 KETC 90 88
43 KTVI 98 94
47 WRBU 98 94
56 KMOV 69 0

KMOV will go up to the 60s, down to the single digits, unlock and go back up to the 60s again several times a minute. It is totally unwatchable. This has happened over the last several days with no clear pattern. With no splitters/amps in the way to add problems and the fact I don't show similar results with any of the other locals, I'm stumped when it comes to finding a resolution. Does anyone have any ideas or similar experiences?


For the past few days kmovs signal has been jumping for me to this started friday where as before I never had a problem I was always around 90 to 100 percent now it goes from 30 to 100 percent to losing signaa altogether.I live in the north county area is this wide spread or just in certain areas?

The low bitrate (around 9 to 11 mbps) on KTVI has been there from the beginning, but the video glitches are a relatively recent phenomenon.

Is it possible the low bit is due to KTVI broadcasting 1280x720p instead of 1920x1080i?

Dave

Dave,

The actual throughput is similar as the number of pixels in a 1080i field of video is 1.037 million pixels and for 720p it is 0.92 million. The difference is that the 720p feeds present a full frame of video each cycle, while 1080i is only sending half the video frame (a 540-line interlaced field) with each update. In fact, the 720p feed has another advantage over 1080i in that progressive video compresses significantly more efficiently than interlaced.

As a result, 720p video requires less bandwidth than 1080i, but if my recollection is correct something like 16-17 megabits per second is still required to present 720p properly, versus something close to the maximium 19.2 Mb/sec available needed for high quality 1080i.

One example of how these differences are exploited -- PBS actually originates its national HD feed as 1080i video, but local stations convert it to 720p, for the very reason that 720p compresses more efficiently, which better serves PBS's objectives in using multicasting to reach as many possible viewers with its digital service.

You might ask, well then, why doesn't PBS just produce its content in 720p to begin with? Great question, but I don't have the foggiest clue...

For the past few days kmovs signal has been jumping for me to this started friday where as before I never had a problem I was always around 90 to 100 percent now it goes from 30 to 100 percent to losing signaa altogether.I live in the north county area is this wide spread or just in certain areas?Please scroll above as this has been discussed very recently...in addition, multipath problems can suddenly appear for an individual viewer and then just as suddenly vanish.

Or, they are devoting 8 Mbps to a black frame...

Channel 4-2 is a black frame. A signal that is present but only a 4:3 black picture.

8Mbps for basically no data! Seems a quite primitive transmission technology.

I think -- and bear in mind that I'm only speculating -- that when KMOV set up the subchannel they made a hard allocation for subchannel bandwidth, and when the election ended and the subchannel went dark, they never removed the allocation.

It seems that if there wasn't any fixed allocation for the subchannel, once there wasn't any video or sound appearing on the subchannel, then the HD channel would have returned to full bandwidth. To my eye and others here, that clearly hasn't been the case.

Continuing on with the reading of tea leaves, it might seem like an oversight that the bandwidth wasn't returned to KMOV's HD channel, but maybe this can be explained by the fact that the CBS network does have plans for subchannel broadcasting. As a result, maybe KMOV simply left the subchannel allocation in place so as to "acclimate" HD viewers to a less robust service, or (more charitably) maybe they just expected to have something to put on the subchannel sooner.

Is it possible the low bit is due to KTVI broadcasting 1280x720p instead of 1920x1080i?

Dave

KDNL also does 1280x720p and their bandwidth is easily 17mbps or higher. The PQ on LOST is significantly sharper than anything on KTVI.

In fact, I always thought the best PQ in town was a toss up between LOST on KDNL and CSI MIAMI on KMOV. Since KMOV started stealing bandwidth so they can show a blank screen on 4-2, LOST is the official PQ king in St. Louis.

For all the bitching we do about KTVI, though... 24 still has the best sound in town. Those bullets don't just fly from speaker to speaker, they literally fly around the room!

Is that an SD picture I see coming from the NASCAR race on 2-1?

Is that an SD picture I see coming from the NASCAR race on 2-1?

yup

Hey, I *finally* got the 6.3c update for the HD Tivo last night! Never did get the "b" update....

yupWhat are the "broadcast ethics" of transmitting an SD picture and an "Info box" claiming 16:9 and 720p at the same time?

What are the "broadcast ethics" of transmitting an SD picture and an "Info box" claiming 16:9 and 720p at the same time?

Reports in the programing forum indicate ir was a network-wide issue.
It's back to HD now.

KTVI did leave the air for a minute though, Cable and OTA. Wonder if they had to reboot the splicer ?

Is that an SD picture I see coming from the NASCAR race on 2-1?

It's HD on my Tivo.

Scott

Is anyone experiencing chn issues with PBS and KPLR HD on charter since yesterday? I get the "THis channel will be avail shortly" I wanted to see if the blues game was in HD today

It's HD on my Tivo.It is now. Their turboencabulator was frammixed.

Hey, I *finally* got the 6.3c update for the HD Tivo last night! Never did get the "b" update....Yeah, I got it, too -- right in the shorts. The update came on Wednesday afternoon and the process crashed my HD TiVo. I was away from Wednesday morning, and when I fired up the TV last night to watch "Lost," I was greeted by a "Please Wait a Few Moments..." After several minutes went by with no change, it was necessary to reboot (three times) to get the receiver back in commission. When it came back, the last thing recorded was a late Wednesday morning SportsCenter.

I'm officially fed up with this HD TiVo nonsense -- it's been nothing but hassles and inconvenience since the so-called "folders" update. When I called DirecTV to complain, they initially suggested a $299 "upgrade" as the solution, though they did eventually come down to $99.

DISH Network is looking ever more appealing...

Honestly, I've been pleased with the HR20-700. It's not the TIVO interface, and I have to learn some things differently, but I'm recording and watching standard and HD TV just fine. I have no regrets switching, and with the sale of one of my HR10-250 receivers and a second that I have for sale now, I will come out ahead on the cost to switch.

I just checked and I too got the 6.3c update. I really don't know when it happened, but it did. I hope everything still works the way it has been with 6.3b.

Doug, if you gonna make the switch sell you tivo on Fleabay. They are bringing at least $300 each and more if you have original box, manual, remote, etc.

Glad KSDK had the Match play in HD, but they need some hand held HD cameras.

Scott

The program guide on E* was populated with the information for 9.1 a couple of weeks ago and now it's gone. It was there for about a day. Anyone have an explanation?

Is anyone experiencing chn issues with PBS and KPLR HD on charter since yesterday? I get the "THis channel will be avail shortly" I wanted to see if the blues game was in HD today
The point is moot. KPLR does NOT broadcast ANY Blues games in HD. The only Blues games available in HD this year are on FSN HD (I think 10 total games were/are broadcast in HD this year) and Versus HD (if you actually have this channel). I believe that NBC sometimes broadcasts their games in HD on the weekends as well, but the only Blues game on NBC so far (vs. Kings on free food day) was NOT in HD.

Off topic....

I just got back from seeing the new Ghost Rider movie. I want those two hours of my life back.

The cheesy CGI will look especially silly when this movie gets broadcast in HD.

The program guide on E* was populated with the information for 9.1 a couple of weeks ago and now it's gone. It was there for about a day. Anyone have an explanation?
It's been discussed here, Ferl. Short story is, DISH is amidst some extensive changes regarding sub channel guide data.

9.2, .3, & .4 were populated for 1-2 days, and 9.1 was not. .2, .3, & .4 went away, and 9.1 returned. Now they're all gone. DISH is trying to arrange all the PBS subs to suit each local market's EPG.

If you'd like more detailed information, search the thread...it was discussed 2-3 weeks ago, and also 5-6 weeks ago. :)

I thought the Oscar's looked great tonight.
Is this the first HD production for them?

Why is it KDNL can switch in-and-out of commercial, without the audio popping me off the chair?

Good job Jim (Wracer)....I enjoyed watching it :)

The picture looks great on the Oscars but for a few moments the sound was out of sync. However the racer and his crew cleared that up right away. Thanks.

ABC's coverage of the Academy Awards was absolutely stellar. The other local affiliates should learn from this.
Ken, I agree about CBS's annoying pops when commercials hit. Also, no, this was not the first time ABC has done the Academy Awards in HD.

Scott

The "HD leader," kSDk, has its share of annoying pops when switching to and from HD.

And I agree, the Oscars tonight was an absolute triumph for ABC and KDNL. Puts last week's Grammy show on CBS/KMOV to shame.

KDNL is the one shining light in our HD sky. Thanks, Jim, for all your hard work, and for caring so much. For all the people just getting into HD, at least there is KDNL to point to for image quality.

January Sales Data Indicate Blu-ray Doubled HD DVD Sales

The following story excerpt is from today's TV Predictions newsletter:
____________________________________________________________

Blu-ray HDTV DVDs outsold rival HD-DVD by a two to one margin in January, according to Nielsen's home video unit. And Blu-ray players are now in roughly one million homes (including PlayStation 3 units), far more than the number of HD-DVD units, according to industry reports.

With the latest numbers, you can understand why Sony, which backs the Blu-ray format, is declaring victory in the biggest video format war since Beta vs. VHS.

“The message that we’re going to put out to the consumer now is, now it is safe to make a choice,” says Sony Pictures Home Entertainment President David Bishop. “No more fence-sitting is needed.”

But Video Business reports that Toshiba, which is behind the HD-DVD format, is not ready to concede and is planning a number of initiatives to level the playing field.

For starters, Circuit City, which has rarely carried Toshiba products in its electronics stores, has begun offering Toshiba's second-generation HD-DVD players. (The retailer has sold Blu-ray players since they were launched last spring.) In addition, Toshiba has partnered with Circuit City to hold showcases for the HD-DVD format at selected stores.

“Circuit City has become a very strong partner,” Jodi Sally, vice president of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products Digital A/V group, told the publication. “We’ve already done over 200 demos at Circuit City, which we started at the end of January. It was always our intention to expand our retail distribution.”

Sally told Video Business that sales of Toshiba's second generation players have already passed sales of the company's first HD-DVD series which was introduced last spring. However, she refused to provide sales numbers.

Also likely on the horizon: A $100 price cut on the second-generation HD-DVD players, which now start at $499. At $399, Toshiba's unit would cost up to $600 less than some Blu-ray players.

“You’ll see the lower pricing in 30 to 60 days,” one industry source told Video Business. "For Toshiba to hit the sell-through numbers that it wants, I expect to see a base level of $299 this fall.”
____________________________________________________________

AT&T's U-verse Inks Deal for HGTV, Food Network in HD

From today's Morning Bridge newsletter:
__________________________________________________________

AT&T and Scripps Networks this morning announced a distribution agreement to deliver the programmer's linear, high-def and on-demand programming as part of the AT&T U-verse TV channel lineup.

Channels included in the deal are HGTV, Food Network, DIY Network, Fine Living TV Network and Great American Country (GAC).
__________________________________________________________

KDNL is the one shining light in our HD sky. Thanks, Jim, for all your hard work, and for caring so much. For all the people just getting into HD, at least there is KDNL to point to for image quality.I just wanted to add my "second" to Joe's statement.

The stellar work that Jim does for KDNL goes to show that producing a high quality HD broadcast service comes down to making a commitment to it and then following through.

Study Finds Proper HDTV Setup May Reduce Electricity Need by 25%

This may seem a little bit self-serving, but I think it does "shed some additional light" on recent discussions here about the benefits of reducing contrast settings or operating displays in "low power" modes.

The following excerpts are from the March 2007 issue of Widescreen Review ("One Installer's Opinion" column, pp 58-59). The article details initial findings of an Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) study, conducted in concert with the environment focused firm, Eco Consulting.

Some highlights:
___________________________________________________________

* The TV manufacturers and the EPA are working together to develop a standard video test clip to use when measuring TV energy use. Our preliminary measurements with that test clip are showing BIG energy use variations within TVs of the same type and size, probably due to differences in power supply design, backlight settings, and picture control factory defaults. Some of the biggest energy users consume more electricity in a year than your fridge!

* Just before CES, we were able to take some cursory measurements on a popular manufacturer's 50-inch Plasma Display Panel to check the effect that display settings have on power use. Through special instrumentation provided by Ecos, we were able to measure the difference between "out-of-the-box" consumption and "post calibration" consumption power drain to the fourth decimal place. We were hoping for as much as a 5 percent improvement, but what we found was on the order of 25 to 30 percent.

* While there are certain to be different results for different manufacturers and technologies (Plasma versus DLP versus LCD, etc.), and a much larger sample size for each will be required -- and results by technology need to be weighted and averaged for existing and future set populations -- this is very big news...

* What if government bodies were to encourage all manufacturers to ship their sets with energy-saving screen settings (think MOVIE instead of VIVID) that were the factory default? The consequences for the 98 percent of the population who don't know/care about calibration will be: 1) Better Picture Quality; 2) Less Eye Strain; and, 3) Lower Electric Bills.
___________________________________________________________

The balance of the article discusses some of the basics of video calibration and the benefits of LCD displays with backlight controls and displays that allow the user to create specific settings for daytime and night viewing.

The full article can be found at the Widescreen Review web site (www.widescreenreview.com), although a subscription to the magazine is required for online access.

I find that we do have a hockey team and they just made a GREAT trade.

Walt

PC Mag has it here (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2096897,00.asp)

barry

Has anyone tried to hook up a Moxi box to a monitor using a component to VGA cable? Am I going to need a transcoder or will a simple cable work? I tried to hook the monitor up via DVI's, but the monitor is not HDCP compatible, and the Charter equipment wouldn't let me change the resolution up from 480i. Also, the monitor component inputs only allow 480i or 540i, so component to component won't work. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I've found there are a lot of folks here on top of the latest PC gadgets and gizmos, so maybe one of you can help me find something I need but haven't found despite doing a number of searches.

To begin with, I need a 4-port USB hub. That's a fairly straightforward request, but there are some twists. For one, the hub needs to be able to operate without power. It's also going to be used for connecting two other USB devices and two USB-to-serial connectors. I'm not sure if there are compatibility issues with hubs and certain USB devices, but I'm guessing that something like a USB-to-serial converter may be trickier than other USB connections.

Finally, and most importantly, I would like to find a USB hub where the design of the hub "protects" the USB device to be plugged into it. Ideally, this would mean that the USB device would slide into an enclosure before lining up with the connector, so that most of the actual USB device was actually hidden away inside the hub. The way I envision this, the USB device could be removed, either by grabbing a small portion of it that remains outside the connection enclosure, or it could be a matter of pressing in and activating a spring-loaded release.

The main USB connector that I'm trying to protect is a USB software "dongle," (yeah, I know that sucks) and it's something that I'm going to be handling each time I set up for a calibration in someone's home or in a showroom. If the USB dongle were able to enclosed in the hub, it could live there permanently, reducing the chances of damage through repeated handling, or better yet, loss as a result of failing to pack it up and store it where it can be found the next time I need it.

Hopefully I've explained what I'm looking for well enough. I know it's probably a longshot, but thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone knows of something that would fit the bill.

Has anyone tried to hook up a Moxi box to a monitor using a component to VGA cable? Am I going to need a transcoder or will a simple cable work? I tried to hook the monitor up via DVI's, but the monitor is not HDCP compatible, and the Charter equipment wouldn't let me change the resolution up from 480i. Also, the monitor component inputs only allow 480i or 540i, so component to component won't work. Any help is greatly appreciated.rbkb,

I'd like to try to help you, but I'm confused by the Moxi limitations you're reporting. Probably easiest to call me to discuss. I'm around most of the afternoon on my cell phone.

Last night when I watched the recording of Amazing Race on my HR20, there were many breakups of the picture throughout the show. I recorded from the D* HD local, not OTA. Since the winds were pretty strong last night, I suspect that was the cause, not clouds. However, the Slimline is braced on the roof and the installer demonstrated how secure it was when he was done by being unable to make it budge.

Can anyone with a D* MPEG4 receiver who watched Race last night confirm if the sat signal was actually OK? There were no issues with the Oscars, so maybe it was just a KMOV issue on the uplink. :confused:

Thanks,

Mike

Doug,
I'm not understanding what it is your needing. Not that you didn't explain it well, I just don't have the knowledge to understand.
You may want to try looking here. This company makes/handles speciality USB products for the medical industry...perhaps they'd have something suited. I believe they will also make whatever it is you need.
http://www.connectworld.net/cables_u/usb-cable-manufacturer.html

To begin with, I need a 4-port USB hub. That's a fairly straightforward request, but there are some twists. For one, the hub needs to be able to operate without power. It's also going to be used for connecting two other USB devices and two USB-to-serial connectors. I'm not sure if there are compatibility issues with hubs and certain USB devices, but I'm guessing that something like a USB-to-serial converter may be trickier than other USB connections.

Finally, and most importantly, I would like to find a USB hub where the design of the hub "protects" the USB device to be plugged into it. Ideally, this would mean that the USB device would slide into an enclosure before lining up with the connector, so that most of the actual USB device was actually hidden away inside the hub. The way I envision this, the USB device could be removed, either by grabbing a small portion of it that remains outside the connection enclosure, or it could be a matter of pressing in and activating a spring-loaded release.



You may have to buy the separate parts and try fabricating an enclosure for what you want. Most items that typically get plugged into a USB hub are USB cables as opposed to smaller devices like flash drives and such, at least in the way I use them (I'm a network admin) I've purchased quite a few USB Hubs, and I don't think I've ever seen one similar to what you want.

I have a USB-to-Serial that I tested in a regular 4port USB hub, it worked fine without an additional power source, ie. receiving all power through the USB port on my PC.

I've found there are a lot of folks here on top of the latest PC gadgets and gizmos, so maybe one of you can help me find something I need but haven't found despite doing a number of searches.

To begin with, I need a 4-port USB hub. That's a fairly straightforward request, but there are some twists. For one, the hub needs to be able to operate without power. It's also going to be used for connecting two other USB devices and two USB-to-serial connectors. I'm not sure if there are compatibility issues with hubs and certain USB devices, but I'm guessing that something like a USB-to-serial converter may be trickier than other USB connections.

Finally, and most importantly, I would like to find a USB hub where the design of the hub "protects" the USB device to be plugged into it. Ideally, this would mean that the USB device would slide into an enclosure before lining up with the connector, so that most of the actual USB device was actually hidden away inside the hub. The way I envision this, the USB device could be removed, either by grabbing a small portion of it that remains outside the connection enclosure, or it could be a matter of pressing in and activating a spring-loaded release.

The main USB connector that I'm trying to protect is a USB software "dongle," (yeah, I know that sucks) and it's something that I'm going to be handling each time I set up for a calibration in someone's home or in a showroom. If the USB dongle were able to enclosed in the hub, it could live there permanently, reducing the chances of damage through repeated handling, or better yet, loss as a result of failing to pack it up and store it where it can be found the next time I need it.

Hopefully I've explained what I'm looking for well enough. I know it's probably a longshot, but thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone knows of something that would fit the bill.


I know you probably don't lug a desktop around for calibrations, cause some them have internal USB ports and that would be great for hiding a dongle -- which is what we do at my .edu job for programs that require them - we can literally lock them inside the Macs.

External ... yea, like others I've not run across much like that. I assume you're using a laptop.

Thanks for all the positive comments on the Oscar's last night. We try hard to present the cleanest error free HD. We even had an extra person in last night to switch the HD and help with back up commercials.

However, I've received a complaint from St. Louis and another from Springfield,MA that when they went to a movie clip there was some breakup and the audio went out on sync...then came back when switched to live. Did anyone see this?
Jim

Has anyone tried to hook up a Moxi box to a monitor using a component to VGA cable? Am I going to need a transcoder or will a simple cable work? I tried to hook the monitor up via DVI's, but the monitor is not HDCP compatible, and the Charter equipment wouldn't let me change the resolution up from 480i. Also, the monitor component inputs only allow 480i or 540i, so component to component won't work. Any help is greatly appreciated.

There is no such thing as a component to VGA cable. There are, however, component to VGA transcoders. Kim Beun, Cresendo Systems, makes one with gamma correction. You can find him on the HTPC forum. Everyone who comments on it rave about it. I am about to order on on the 1st.

Walt

Jim,

Didn't notice any breakup or sync loss (but then I didn't come in til 8:30 or so)... only thing I noticed was the movie clip dialog came out of the left and right front channels instead of the center where it belonged. I just figured that's the way the network sent it out.

Well, have had a problem with the Moto 6200 on the wife's TV. I finally had enough and called the idiot Charter CSRs. After messing with their phone system for 1/2 an hour, I finally got a live person between the two oceans. Another 1/2 hour determined that the box had a problem. She tried to set me up with a service call but I refused. I just took the box back to Charter. The person at the counter said there was nothing wrong with the box, it was just the way my account was configured....figures. She said she would give me a new box anyway (to make me feel better about the trip). While she was typing, I asked if she would check my status on the DVR list. She said she had them there, would I like one. Oh, joy....only a 13 month wait. When I got out to the car I had to check what I got. It was a Moto 3416 (160gig HD). Then I had to chase around for an HDMI to DVI-D adapter. Found one at ratshack. Thirty bucks, you gotta be kiddin. Anyway I am now waiting for the box to get its download. Moved the old 6200 to the wife's TV. She is very happy to have HD and VOD.

P.S. it has firewire out.

Walt

Thanks for all the positive comments on the Oscar's last night. We try hard to present the cleanest error free HD. We even had an extra person in last night to switch the HD and help with back up commercials.

However, I've received a complaint from St. Louis and another from Springfield,MA that when they went to a movie clip there was some breakup and the audio went out on sync...then came back when switched to live. Did anyone see this?
Jim

I did notice an audio sync problem that fixed itself, although I was in and out and didn't pick up on when it happened. What I saw of the Oscars last night was spectacular. Stellar image quality - what HDTV is supposed to be.

A little off topic here, but we seem to be pretty flexible around here.

Have a Minolta DiMAGE A1 5.0 MP digital camera in need of some repair. Is anyone aware of a local dealer that could service it?

A little off topic here, but we seem to be pretty flexible around here.

Have a Minolta DiMAGE A1 5.0 MP digital camera in need of some repair. Is anyone aware of a local dealer that could service it?I would go ask at Schiller's Camera on Manchester. They're the best in town for photog needs.

There is no such thing as a component to VGA cable. There are, however, component to VGA transcoders. Kim Beun, Cresendo Systems, makes one with gamma correction. You can find him on the HTPC forum. Everyone who comments on it rave about it. I am about to order on on the 1st.Walt,

Strictly speaking, you're correct, but there are RGB breakout cables that would have a 15-pin VGA at one end and 5 BNC adapters at the other that could be converted to RCA males. The net effect of this would be a VGA-to-component video cable. However, this solution would be dependent on either the source or display being able to configure itself to send component video via a DB-15 VGA output, or use some combination of RCA inputs/outputs to receive/send an RGB signal.

For instance, the DB-15 VGA input on the Panasonic plasma professional models can be set in the user menu to handle either RGB or component video. Likewise, the Lumagen line of video processors allow some of the component/composite video inputs to be repurposed as RGB inputs, and the RBG and analog DVI outputs can also be set up as a component video out.

But absent these sort of built-in "switches" at the source or display, a cable alone is not going to be able to perform transcoding from RGB to component, or vice versa.

Guys, thanks for the suggestions and additional ideas on my USB requirement. I've made some additional calls and haven't had any luck yet, so near term it looks like I'm going to need to get creative.

Thanks again to everyone for the quick feedback.

I'm going to need to get creative.Put a small 4-port USB hub and your dongle in a small Tupperware container with only the wires coming out through holes poked in the sides. (Or get fancy and use a nicely lacquered box of Nicaraguan cocobolo wood (http://www.cocobolo.net/) .)

Put a small 4-port USB hub and your dongle in a small Tupperware container with only the wires coming out through holes poked in the sides. (Or get fancy and use a nicely lacquered box of Nicaraguan cocobolo wood (http://www.cocobolo.net/) .):)

Anyone know which Directv satellite has the St. Louis locals on it? Just had a new dish and DVR installed and I can't get the local channels. Directv customer service is their usual 5-star quality.

Thanks for all the positive comments on the Oscar's last night. We try hard to present the cleanest error free HD. We even had an extra person in last night to switch the HD and help with back up commercials.

However, I've received a complaint from St. Louis and another from Springfield,MA that when they went to a movie clip there was some breakup and the audio went out on sync...then came back when switched to live. Did anyone see this?
Jim

Hi Jim,

Yes, there was the usual studdering and audio sync issues on all pre-recorded content that cleared up whenever it went back live.

Walt,

Strictly speaking, you're correct, but there are RGB breakout cables that would have a 15-pin VGA at one end and 5 BNC adapters at the other that could be converted to RCA males. The net effect of this would be a VGA-to-component video cable. However, this solution would be dependent on either the source or display being able to configure itself to send component video via a DB-15 VGA output, or use some combination of RCA inputs/outputs to receive/send an RGB signal.

For instance, the DB-15 VGA input on the Panasonic plasma professional models can be set in the user menu to handle either RGB or component video. Likewise, the Lumagen line of video processors allow some of the component/composite video inputs to be repurposed as RGB inputs, and the RBG and analog DVI outputs can also be set up as a component video out.

But absent these sort of built-in "switches" at the source or display, a cable alone is not going to be able to perform transcoding from RGB to component, or vice versa.

I agree if you are lumping all multiple wire devices under the term component then I might agree to a point. You could take component RGB to VGA. When I see the term "component" out, I think of Y Pb Pr or Y Cb Cr and not any form of RGB.

If I recall correctly, there are 3 basic types of "component" analogue video signals as seen by a consumer coming to/from a device in his system.

They are:

Y Pb Pr - analogue color space for digital television.
Y Cb Cr - analogue color space originally intended for DVDs.
RGB - analogue color space in many flavors RGBs, RGB sync on Green, RGBHV, VGA, and etc. all dealing with a different method of H/V sync.

The constant "K" is different between Y Pb Pr and Y Cb Cr in the color space formula. It is probably not enough for anyone but a calibrator to worry about but is still different.

Taking a set of Y Pb Pr component cables from a Y Pb Pr output to an RGB device, will just give a green picture. A transcoder is required.

I haven't been around a Lumagen for over a year but I think when you use Y Pb Pr as inputs configured as RGB, you use other inputs for the horizontal and vertical sync and the lumagen does the tri level sync stripping so that Y is green, Pb is blue and Pr is red. In other words the Lumagen becomes a transcoder.

Walt

Well, have had a problem with the Moto 6200 on the wife's TV. I finally had enough and called the idiot Charter CSRs. After messing with their phone system for 1/2 an hour, I finally got a live person between the two oceans. Another 1/2 hour determined that the box had a problem. She tried to set me up with a service call but I refused. I just took the box back to Charter. The person at the counter said there was nothing wrong with the box, it was just the way my account was configured....figures. She said she would give me a new box anyway (to make me feel better about the trip). While she was typing, I asked if she would check my status on the DVR list. She said she had them there, would I like one. Oh, joy....only a 13 month wait. When I got out to the car I had to check what I got. It was a Moto 3416 (160gig HD). Then I had to chase around for an HDMI to DVI-D adapter. Found one at ratshack. Thirty bucks, you gotta be kiddin. Anyway I am now waiting for the box to get its download. Moved the old 6200 to the wife's TV. She is very happy to have HD and VOD.

P.S. it has firewire out.

Walt

Sweet !

Have you tested if the firewire works and can you change channels with channel.exe ?

Doug

I must have missed something. What is your USB issue?

Walt

Sweet !

Have you tested if the firewire works and can you change channels with channel.exe ?


I don't even know if the guide data has finished downloading. Supper Ya no, grandchildren homework, wifely assignments. :mad: Fortunately I was not queried too extensively on the homework bit so now I am off to find a Lumagen manual. I might have yelled at Doug not knowing what I was talking about.

When I get back to Charter, I will keep you informed.

Walt

I would go ask at Schiller's Camera on Manchester. They're the best in town for photog needs.
Agreed Schillers is the best place to purchase a camera, but know that they are going to send any repair to a repair center. Except for cleaning the battery contacts I don't think any local dealer works on digital cameras.

There is a repair service on Clayton Road about 1 mile east of Galleria (on north side of street), but when I took my Canon digital there two years ago, they were going to send it off. (Ended up buying new camera from Schillers) as cost of repair was extimated to be so high.

Walt/aspec2 says:

Y Pb Pr - analogue color space for digital television.
Y Cb Cr - analogue color space originally intended for DVDs.

YPbPr denotes analog component video.
YCbCr denotes digital component video.

The color space is not part of the transmission protocol, it is a function of the SMPTE spec (I think it's Rec. 601 for NTSC and 709 for ATSC).

Cheers,

Walt/aspec2 says:



YPbPr denotes analog component video.
YCbCr denotes digital component video.

The color space is not part of the transmission protocol, it is a function of the SMPTE spec (I think it's Rec. 601 for NTSC and 709 for ATSC).

Cheers,

Yes but YCbCr is NOT a digital signal. It is an analogue signal and is always (in my limited experience) used in place of YPbPr when that type of I/O is not present.

Walt

davesalaman

Went to the box and it had not downloaded the guide data. Duh...do you need the RF connected for this to happen???? Guess so.

I have the drivers installed on the PC. I could watch everything via firewire except HDnet Movies and of course 784 and ABC. HDnet Movies has not always worked. I think the flag is set most of the time. Need to talk to Mr. Cuban about that. I don't see any problem with recording any non 5C programming. I will test it tomorrow with something I record tonight.

I have never had the need for using the channel changer program because I always had a studder problem when recording live. I could always view but not record. That's why I wanted the DVR because I was told there was no studder. I have, however, built a faster computer so maybe it is time to try ccap with the changer.

Walt

Agreed Schillers is the best place to purchase a camera, but know that they are going to send any repair to a repair center. Except for cleaning the battery contacts I don't think any local dealer works on digital cameras.

There is a repair service on Clayton Road about 1 mile east of Galleria (on north side of street), but when I took my Canon digital there two years ago, they were going to send it off. (Ended up buying new camera from Schillers) as cost of repair was extimated to be so high.That's going to be true with just about any digital camera these days (repairs going to service centers), including SLRs, but Schiller's will at least point you in the right direction. I bought my DSLR from them, and even though I spent somewhat more than I would on the internet, I'm glad I did. They are always very helpful to me, and I like being to return stuff if it doesn't work out for me.

That's going to be true with just about any digital camera these days (repairs going to service centers), including SLRs, but Schiller's will at least point you in the right direction. I bought my DSLR from them, and even though I spent somewhat more than I would on the internet, I'm glad I did. They are always very helpful to me, and I like being to return stuff if it doesn't work out for me.
I agree. That is why I would always buy about anything locally that has a chance of breaking or not working as I thought--HDTV, audio, camera, speakers,etc. Is is good to have a salesperson you can take it back to and deal with. That is worth paying a little extra in my opinion. I only buy via internet stuff like books, CD's, DVD's, clothing that I can't get in stores because I am taller than the average size, stuff that doesn't have on/off buttons.

Anyone know which Directv satellite has the St. Louis locals on it? Just had a new dish and DVR installed and I can't get the local channels. Directv customer service is their usual 5-star quality.
Check Dish's site to see if you should get the locals. I'm 63011 area code and they say I could get ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX HD. If it says you should get the locals online and you don't, I would call and complain to Dish, as if they say you get them, there may be something wrong w/ the receiver.