But this is different. With other distributors you don't need to call anyone to find what you are supposed to get. Your package a clearly defined on the web. Comcast makes (might be intentionally) its channel line up a gigantic mess apparently CSRs are just as clueless as customers about channel lineup. I don't think it the CSRs who are so incompetent but its is their system.

Providing channels for a monthly fee is what Comcast does primarily... how can they not give any thought about how to communicate to customers about what they are paying for? A CSR should just be able to put in customers account number and be able to know exactly what channels they are supposed to be getting. Even better it should be listed when I log into my Cable account. Its not so hard.. it might even reduce their customer service expenses by a lot.

I agree, the poor CSR's don't have a prayer of being able to convey the correct info, basically because there doesn't seem to be any correct info. It's the management that's to blame for all this, not the front line folks.

Have you (or anyone else) tried "backfilling" the voice connection over your existing home wiring? My father in law said that if you connect the Line Out from your cable/VoIP modem to an in-wall jack, you will have a live connection on all your existing outlets. I'd be curious to see if that actually works.Yes, that works, at least with my Vonage adapter, which should be the same for Comcast adapter. But I made sure that my house wiring was disconnected from the phone company line drop by opening the test jack at the service panel on outside of house.

I hope you're right. I presume when you're upgraded, I'll be upgraded. I'm pretty sure I'm not too far from you.

In 94087 around Las Palmas Park, and still no new channels yet. Interestingly, I get NBC11 on physical channel 110-1 and 110-3 (around 710 MHz) as well as on 33-1. Cable modem downstream is at 705 MHz. I have fingers crossed for so long that they are starting to hurt...

Los Gatos Blvd and Fillmer Ave (95030) is still not upgraded. They installed the new fiber months ago now but have yet to upgrade the service. I can't believe it take them this long........

DirectV wants me back and is offering a sweet deal to get me. Maybe I should....:cool:

A semi-technical question: given the technology employed (QAM? some device that compresses the "full" HD feed to a lower bit rate?), would one expect that the constrained bit rate would manifest in macroblocking or in dropped frames? I have not noticed much, if any, macroblocking. What I saw in BSG . . . er . . . sorry, Keenan, BG if you prefer ;) . . . was dropped frames, sometimes described here as "stuttering." It regularly manifests on A&E HD programming both on my 6412 and my CableCard TV. Sometimes its hard to diagnose given that the "style" of the shows can deliberately employ the technique . . . CSI:Miami being an example. But more often it is pretty noticeable. Noticed it repeatedly during the TBS-HD broadcast of The Wedding Date yesterday too.

Follow-up technical question: would one expect that different receivers (DVR vs. Cablecard vs. QAM tuner) would handle the constrained bit rates more gracefully, or perhaps translate the errors into macroblocking as opposed to dropped frames? I would've thought that the image problem would be created wherever they transrate the feed and would appear the same to everyone.

Follow-up satellite question: aesthetics are going to be a major constraint on my ability to depart this joyful debate for DirecTV. Are there people you can hire who would come out and scope out where they might "hide" the dish (dishes?). I have a lovely unobstructed south-facing roof but a spouse who is NOT going to go for having her remodeled roofline affected by satellite. We are quite far above the street (house is on the upslope of a hill) so I'm hoping the solution would be to set the dish on a platform set back a foot or two from the roofline. Will affect how the back of the house looks from the hill behind us, but that might be saleable (particularly if I can get more tennis feeds off the dish). I figure Joe Blow DirecTV installer is not going to do anything unusual for us and I'm willing to spend the extra nickel to scope this out properly so as to make the pitch.

Finally, and to give to the conversation as well as receive, related to the SD feed of BSG/BG on Sci-Fi-HD, I was guessing that the show in question, at least the one I saw, was a first-season show ("The Hand of God") and I presume that Sci-Fi-HD only had a standard-definition version of that season.

One last trivial question: A&E HD was running the TV version of The Thomas Crown Affair and the aspect ratio translation was truly bizarre. I think what they did was take the 2.35:1 original as converted to P&S for TV (eliminating what Monty Python would call the "naughty bits", of course) and the re-stretched the 4:3 P&S out to 16:9. But even on my Cablecard TV that does not lock into Full mode when an HD signal is presented, I couldn't get a zoom mode that made any portion of the frame look un-stretched. Anyone catch this broadcast?

Agreed. The PQ for BSG last night was pathetic. If it's similar next week, I'll watch it in SD. It was that bad.

I was surfing through my Premium HD channels last night and the clearly documented 3:1 situation aside, the proof is in the watching. On some movies you can clearly see degraded quality. Faces have a splotchy, soft look to them and darker scenes have visible grain. For what I pay Comcast for the Premier package every month this is very disturbing. It almost feels as though CC's response to the increasing customer anger over its lack HD channels is to say "oh yeah, here's your HD channels but at less quality. Happy now?" Now the big question is: will Comcast, once it frees up bandwidth by dumping the analogue channels in 2/09, spread the HDs out more to increase quality or will it just divert that bandwidth to Broadband or other systems and add more HDs but at the lower quality? Anyone want to guess?

My bet is their "executive thinking" is that most of their customers are too dumb to notice and think that is the way HD is. They probably think we're a niche group of whiners. I tried to watch "Casino Royale" a week ago which is an OnDemand from Showtime and on top of the big no-no of being cropped from the 2:35:1 was horrible with macro blocking. IMO, if they give you 3:1 quality then they deserve 1/3 of their revenue. :D

actually i thought it wasn't that bad, close enough to UHD's reruns, prior to the 3 in 1. it definitely is purposefully shot with a lot of grain. that said, there was a lot of blocking, but i still prefer that over the REALLY REALLY disgusting SD.

I hate any show that purposely shoots with grain.

I suppose they do it to be "gritty," but the show is gritty without grain in the picture!

I think the show would look great crystal clear! I'm not switching to SD, but BSG in HD is not all that. I'm surprised there were people who waited 6 months to see it in this underwhelming HD (When there was no SciFiHD).

Now the big question is: will Comcast, once it frees up bandwidth by dumping the analogue channels in 2/09, spread the HDs out more to increase quality or will it just divert that bandwidth to Broadband or other systems and add more HDs but at the lower quality? Anyone want to guess?

Comcast will not be dumping analog channels in 2/09, they are not only not required to, but the FCC has mandated that they stay there until 2/12. They can get out of that by providing free digital receivers to the analog customers.

Comcast will not be dumping analog channels in 2/09, they are not only not required to, but the FCC has mandated that they stay there until 2/12. They can get out of that by providing free digital receivers to the analog customers.

If that's the case and Comcast continues its trend of providing "HD-Lite" to customers while inflating its claims about HD quantity and quality, it will continue to lose customers to other services. If Uverse can get its act together it will make major gains against Comcast. CC should, perhaps, remember that it started as a CABLE TV COMPANY and that it's failing in that primary mission.

One last trivial question: A&E HD was running the TV version of The Thomas Crown Affair and the aspect ratio translation was truly bizarre. I think what they did was take the 2.35:1 original as converted to P&S for TV (eliminating what Monty Python would call the "naughty bits", of course) and the re-stretched the 4:3 P&S out to 16:9. But even on my Cablecard TV that does not lock into Full mode when an HD signal is presented, I couldn't get a zoom mode that made any portion of the frame look un-stretched. Anyone catch this broadcast?

This sir, is what is known as Stretch-O-Vision. The god awful practice of chopping and then nonlinearly stretching the content back out to 16:9.

Bring on the motion sickness during camera pans.. :)

Comcast will not be dumping analog channels in 2/09, they are not only not required to, but the FCC has mandated that they stay there until 2/12. They can get out of that by providing free digital receivers to the analog customers.

IIRC, they're only mandated to keep the broadcast channels (i.e. ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) in the analog spectrum. Paid channels such as ESPN, Nick, TNT, etc. can be moved over to digital at any time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

I was surfing through my Premium HD channels last night and the clearly documented 3:1 situation aside, the proof is in the watching. On some movies you can clearly see degraded quality. Faces have a splotchy, soft look to them and darker scenes have visible grain. For what I pay Comcast for the Premier package every month this is very disturbing. It almost feels as though CC's response to the increasing customer anger over its lack HD channels is to say "oh yeah, here's your HD channels but at less quality. Happy now?" Now the big question is: will Comcast, once it frees up bandwidth by dumping the analogue channels in 2/09, spread the HDs out more to increase quality or will it just divert that bandwidth to Broadband or other systems and add more HDs but at the lower quality? Anyone want to guess?

Comcast isn't dropping any analog channels on 2/09 as far as I know.

Sad to be watching the game in SD right now. Why they aren't showing the game in 720?

Sad to be watching the game in SD right now. Why they aren't showing the game in 720?
I was wondering the same thing!

IIRC, they're only mandated to keep the broadcast channels (i.e. ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) in the analog spectrum. Paid channels such as ESPN, Nick, TNT, etc. can be moved over to digital at any time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...
Yes, that is correct.

Specifically FCC has mandated that *local broadcasters'* programming be available to *all* cable subscribers.

This can be accomplished in one of two ways:
1) convert the digital local broadcast signal back to analog
2) carry only the digital signal, provided that all subscribers have the equipment to view it

For option 2, if all subscribers have the equipment to view the digital signal that is pretty much the same as saying the cable company provides STBs to anyone that needs one. If they do that, they might as well go all digital.

While it doesn't require a cable company to go all digital (they can provide STBs and still have analog channels) option 2 provides no real reason to have analog around, so I would say it is virtually the same as saying a cable company can go all digital.

So essentially, between 2009 and 2012, cable company can either keep analog for whatever reason (and convert locals back to analog) or go all digital.

HD enthusiasts crying foul over cable TV's crunched signals
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/ap_on_hi_te/compressed_hd_4

MINNEAPOLIS - In Brent Swanson's basement home theater, there should be nothing drab about "Battlestar Galactica." He's got a high-end projector that beams the picture onto a wall painted like a silver screen, and speakers loom in the corners, flanking two big subwoofers.

Yet when he tuned in Sci Fi HD for a recent episode filmed in high definition, the image was soft and the darkest parts broke up into large blocks with no definition. Explosions, he said, were just dull.

"It kind of looked like they took the standard definition and just blew it up," said Swanson, a 33-year-old graphic designer and videographer who subscribes to Comcast Corp.'s TV service. "I couldn't really tell if what I was seeing was really better than what I saw on regular television."

As cable TV companies pack ever more HD channels into limited bandwidth, some owners of pricey plasma, projector and LCD TVs are complaining that they're not getting the high-def quality they paid for. They blame the increased signal compression being used to squeeze three digital HD signals into the bandwidth of one analog station.

The problem is viewers want more HD channels at a time when many cable and satellite providers are at the limits of their capacity, said Jim Willcox, a technology editor for Consumer Reports magazine.

"They have to figure out a way to deliver more HD content through their distribution networks," he said.

Compressing the signal is cheaper than costly infrastructure upgrades to increase capacity. Satellite TV providers — including DirecTV Group Inc. and Dish Network Corp. — also have the option of launching satellites to boost the number of HD channels on their systems.

While information is nearly always lost when signals are compressed and then uncompressed, the process can theoretically be made unnoticeable to eyes and ears — and Comcast says it should be.

But some viewers say they can see it. Willcox said complaints about compression have been showing up on Web forums, including the AV Science Forum, a site for serious audio visual enthusiasts.

"It's not exclusively Comcast, although Comcast, being the largest cable provider, is probably the largest target," he said.

Derek Harrar, a Comcast senior vice president in charge of video, said the company recently began using new technology on some channels to compress three HD channels into the bandwidth of one analog station. Other channels continue to get the previous 2-to-1 compression.

In a posting on the AV Science Forum, Ken Fowler of Arlington, Va., compared Comcast signals with those on Verizon Communications Inc.'s all-fiber-optic network, which doesn't have the same capacity limitations. Fowler found the higher-compressed HD stations, including Sci Fi, Animal Planet, the Discovery Channel, the Food Network and A&E, fared particularly poorly.

He analyzed the signals by recording them on a digital recorder, then transferring them to a personal computer for analysis. He found there was much less data, measured in bit rates, flowing to some channels than others.

For example, Discovery's bit rate was 14.16 megabits per second on Verizon's FiOS system but only 10.43 Mbps on Comcast; A&E HD was 18.66 Mbps on FiOS compared with 14.48 Mbps on Comcast. The FiOS system didn't offer Sci Fi HD, which Fowler's testing showed at 12.59 Mbps on Comcast.

He found the signals from the major networks and ESPN weren't getting the increased compression.

In an interview, Fowler said he reran his analysis about two weeks ago and found "basically the same thing."

Philadelphia-based Comcast wouldn't identify specific signals that are 3-to-1 compressed, and a Sci Fi channel spokeswoman referred questions back to Comcast.

Harrar said the company works to make sure any new compression technology is invisible to consumers, but Comcast is "constantly monitoring our network and making adjustments" for best picture quality. The company has been rolling out the new compression technology at different times around the country.

In fact, postings on the AV Science Forum from early April suggest the Comcast network has improved in some places.

And there are other reasons a high-definition picture can appear subpar: The source image might not have been recorded in HD, or the television's settings, the viewing angle and even the ambient lighting in the room could be the cause.

New York-based Time Warner Cable Inc. has avoided many of the criticisms aimed at Comcast, although the companies are technologically similar and face the same capacity limits.

Time Warner spokesman Alex Dudley attributed it to his company's testing procedures. He said that before Time Warner rolls out new technology that may affect image quality, it sets up two identical televisions in a lab, one with the old signal and one with the new. Technicians make adjustments until the pictures can't be told apart.

"The testers are our engineers who we call 'golden eyes,' who have a proven track record of picking up subtle differences in picture quality," he said.

Verizon's FiOS doesn't compress the signal once it receives it, and Willcox said it's considered the picture quality "benchmark." However, Verizon said the system is growing but is now available only in parts of 17 states and has just over a million subscribers — compared with more than 24 million for Comcast.

He said two possible solutions are on the horizon, an improved version of compression, called MPEG-4, and something called "switched digital video."

Comcast and Time Warner Cable have introduced switched video on a trial basis across their networks. In concept, it's like on-demand videos. The company sends only the channels the viewer is watching, instead of all the channels at once.

But switched video has its own issues, including possible slower channel switching times and compatibility problems with digital video recorders.

Willcox said cable providers can't afford to ignore quality complaints. Many customers are already picky about quality after paying $800 to $3,500 for an average-size, HD-ready LCD television.

Swanson, the "Battlestar Galactica" fan, is sticking with Comcast for now.

"It hasn't gotten bad enough for me to consider changing," he said.

Sad to be watching the game in SD right now. Why they aren't showing the game in 720?

Has Comcast shown *any* Sharks games in HD since it took over from FSB?

The game is on in HD on the CBC, so it's not a matter of the HD truck not being there. Was Comcast not willing to pony up the cash?

Has Comcast shown *any* Sharks games in HD since it took over from FSB?

The game is on in HD on the CBC, so it's not a matter of the HD truck not being there. Was Comcast not willing to pony up the cash?

in general, CSNBA (and fmrly FSNBA) gives most road games (of any local team) the SD shaft. someone else can explain the economics.

This post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13252308#post13252308) explains it. CSNBA has only one HD truck, and for the most part, they avoid having the truck travel outside the Bay Area (I would imagine due to travel costs).

And to answer john_o's question, so far they've shown the last regular season game against LA and all three home playoff games in HD. They can't use CBC's HD truck because, well, it belongs to CBC. CSN needs their own truck to be on site to do an HD broadcast.

They can't use CBC's HD truck because, well, it belongs to CBC. CSN needs their own truck to be on site to do an HD broadcast.Wrong. They can easily get the HD signal from the CBC via satellite. All they need is permission. But, it may cost money. Or, they may simply be to lazy to deal with it. In either case, it's CSN's decision not to carry it.

Wrong. They can easily get the HD signal from the CBC via satellite. All they need is permission. But, it may cost money. Or, they may simply be to lazy to deal with it. In either case, it's CSN's decision not to carry it.

I watched Games 3 and 4 (most of 4 as I said earlier) on CBC-HD. Trust me, it was horrible 16:9 SD. Be glad you didn't see that crap.

Now if they are lucky (and I do hope so!) to win Game 7 and advance, they would play Dallas, which means road games are likely to be on TSN-HD in Canada. It's too bad for those without Starchoice that CSN-BA can't pick up their HD feeds. When TSN says it's HD, they mean it, not trying to pass off 16:9 SD as HD.

As far CSN-BA HD's capability, each year they have done more road regular season games in HD. There were a few this year vs. Anaheim, LA, and I think Phoenix. That's about it though and that's not going to change.

Earlier posts in this thread about the new channels being broadcast on the same bands as old channels got me curious so tonight I went channel by channel looking at the MHz band on each of the HD channels in our lineup. So for anyone else in Alameda who was curious, here's what our channel bandwidth looks like:

Band: Channels
111 MHz: 702 Fox, 705 CBS
201 MHz: 734 A&E, 746 HGTV, 780 Starz
219 MHz: 739 UHD, 747 FOOD, 757 NGC
477 MHz: 736 Sci-Fi, 738 USA, 750 DISC
537 MHz: 725 EPSN2, 737 TNT
579 MHz: 722 VSGLF, 759 CNN, 769 AMC
591 MHz: 706 KICU, 730 NFL
603 MHz: 743 MTV
681 MHz: 720 CSN, 740 MOJO
711 MHz: 711 Kron, 785 SHO
717 MHz: 751 APHD, 754 HDT, 758 HIST
741 MHz: 724 ESPN, 735 TBS
747 MHz: 752 TLC, 770 HBO, 792 Max
753 MHz: 707 ABC, 709 PBS
771 MHz: 703 NBC, 712 CW

*sigh* Glad we get what we pay for... oh wait. No, we don't.
Interesting but this is going to be different for every head-end (I guess).

Just by chance I happened to notice that 751 Animal Planet was on 753Mhz, which stood out because I'm on a 750Mhz system... wonder if they can even stretch that to 771Mhz?

Also the worst compression I saw so far, which I posted the pictures of, was on TNT. Fwiw TNT has run some of the highest bit-rates in the past so it makes sense that it loses the most in re-compression...

I assume that getting rid of 40+ analog channels will be one of the biggest opportunities Comcast has to fix this situation, but unless they tell me that is coming this summer/fall or early next year at the latest, I'm probably going to be out looking at satellite dishes soon...

does anyone know if last night's sharks game was in HD on directTV? Is it only Comcast who's lame?

I have Comcast Basic Cable and have recently upgraded all my TVs to HD with QAM. Does anyone have a complete channel listing for the Redwood Shores area? My two TVs (one Sony and one Panasonic) came up with a different list of channels after an autoscan. Thanks in advance.

does anyone know if last night's sharks game was in HD on directTV? Is it only Comcast who's lame?

people need to learn when to blame comcast and when not to. the game was not produced locally by CSNBA in HD. hows that comcast's fault (ignore the fact that they have an ownership stake in CSNBA).

This post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13252308#post13252308) explains it. CSNBA has only one HD truck, and for the most part, they avoid having the truck travel outside the Bay Area (I would imagine due to travel costs).

And to answer john_o's question, so far they've shown the last regular season game against LA and all three home playoff games in HD. They can't use CBC's HD truck because, well, it belongs to CBC. CSN needs their own truck to be on site to do an HD broadcast.

how does YES and NESN's trucks get to all the places the yanks and the redsox go? they show every game in HD, even road games.

I have Comcast Basic Cable and have recently upgraded all my TVs to HD with QAM. Does anyone have a complete channel listing for the Redwood Shores area? My two TVs (one Sony and one Panasonic) came up with a different list of channels after an autoscan. Thanks in advance.

FWIW, bear in mind that after a QAM autoscan for the non-PSIP stations the subchannel after the decimal point can vary between two TVs, while the basic channel number (before the decimal) should be the same. (I can even do a second autoscan on the same TV and get different subchannel numbers.) So one person's 97.1 might be 97.3 on your set.

how does YES and NESN's trucks get to all the places the yanks and the redsox go? they show every game in HD, even road games.

Because if this article (http://prosoundnews.com/articles/article_4924.shtml) is any indication, NESN and YES are putting a lot more effort in moving all their programming to HD than Comcast is with any of the CSN networks.

(I also wouldn't be surprised if both networks have an HD truck for each team they cover; e.g. NESN would have separate trucks for both the Red Sox and the Bruins).

Here's what our channel bandwidth looks like:

Band: Channels
771 MHz: 703 NBC, 712 CW
So that (probably) explains why Benicia (and, presumably, Vallejo) had those two channels switched for a day or two when the new HD channels were added...

-- Don

So does complaining do any good? I mean it seems most of the HD channels I used to watch just look horrible now.

Comcast seems to be taking the line that most of us won't notice.
Is anyone else as insulted by that as I am???
I say it's time to *leave*.......

The Chron picked up the AP story sfhub posted above today.

You know, it's the last 2 sentences of that article that will explain why companies like Comcast will continue to do what they are doing. Why should they do anything different?

Agreed. That killed the whole article for me.
How could that guy even say that???

FWIW, bear in mind that after a QAM autoscan for the non-PSIP stations the subchannel after the decimal point can vary between two TVs, while the basic channel number (before the decimal) should be the same. (I can even do a second autoscan on the same TV and get different subchannel numbers.) So one person's 97.1 might be 97.3 on your set.
If you autoscan on the same TV and get different subchannel #s it is likely the program (or PMT) IDs actually did change (ie stuff moved)

While the numbering algorithms differ between TVs, I've always found them to be deterministic.

Also the worst compression I saw so far, which I posted the pictures of, was on TNT. Fwiw TNT has run some of the highest bit-rates in the past so it makes sense that it loses the most in re-compression...
TNT is unlikely to be the same type of PQ degradation being seen on the 3-pak channels.

First it is constantly 17.8-18.3 Mbps and second it is on a 2-pak channel. It shares with ESPN, which is also 17.8-18.3 Mbps.

I watched part of the Toronto game on TNT and it looked horrible. I watched the Boston game later on the same day and it looked very good.

I'll guess then that TNT PQ problems are not likely problems with Comcast-initiated re-compression for 3-pak, but somewhere else in the chain.

TNT is unlikely to be the same type of PQ degradation being seen on the 3-pak channels.

First it is constantly 17.8-18.3 Mbps and second it is on a 2-pak channel. It shares with ESPN, which is also 17.8-18.3 Mbps.

I watched part of the Toronto game on TNT and it looked horrible. I watched the Boston game later on the same day and it looked very good.

I'll guess then that TNT PQ problems are not likely problems with Comcast-initiated re-compression for 3-pak, but somewhere else in the chain.

it was TNT's problem, most people in the programming thread said the orlando game looked like crap, no matter who the provider.

So does complaining do any good? I mean it seems most of the HD channels I used to watch just look horrible now.



Yes!!
Complain as much as you can. Via phone, e-mail, etc....

Customers need to make that extra effort and let Comcast know we are NOT happy and we are NOT getting what we are paying for.

in general, CSNBA (and fmrly FSNBA) gives most road games (of any local team) the SD shaft. someone else can explain the economics.

It looks like the Sharks game will be on Versus HD (also owned by Comcast) Tuesday night.

Not sure if that makes anyone else feel better, but I'm sure as hell glad to be watching Tuesday's Sharks game in HD!

And yeah, go figure, it's a local game.

Being a local playoff game, I wouldn't expect anything but HD.

If you autoscan on the same TV and get different subchannel #s it is likely the program (or PMT) IDs actually did change (ie stuff moved)

While the numbering algorithms differ between TVs, I've always found them to be deterministic.Yes, most often the shifted program numbers (the part after the dash or period) are on VOD channels where the active program numbers change frequently--I presume that this happens whenever a different subscriber starts a viewing.

Being a local playoff game, I wouldn't expect anything but HD.

In today's HD/broadcast world, I wouldn't expect anything...... :cool:

TNT is unlikely to be the same type of PQ degradation being seen on the 3-pak channels.

First it is constantly 17.8-18.3 Mbps and second it is on a 2-pak channel. It shares with ESPN, which is also 17.8-18.3 Mbps.

I watched part of the Toronto game on TNT and it looked horrible. I watched the Boston game later on the same day and it looked very good.

I'll guess then that TNT PQ problems are not likely problems with Comcast-initiated re-compression for 3-pak, but somewhere else in the chain.

Except that it's packed differently for different markets.

people need to learn when to blame comcast and when not to. the game was not produced locally by CSNBA in HD. hows that comcast's fault (ignore the fact that they have an ownership stake in CSNBA).That fact can't be ignored. CSN's first name is Comcast.

how does YES and NESN's trucks get to all the places the yanks and the redsox go? they show every game in HD, even road games.
You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you are saying it is not Comcast's fault. OTOH, you seem to be saying it is.

In any case, whenever a game that airs on CSN is originally produced in HD, but is broadcast in SD by CSN, it is CSN's fault. (barring any technical problem, of course.) It's just that simple.

Sure, the reason may be financial, as they may not want to pay for the HD feed, if payment is required. But, it is still their decision, and thus, their fault.

I would be surprised if any payment is required, though. I would imagine that the teams and their broadcasters would have reciprocal agreements to share each others' feeds. If they don't, they are poor businessmen. Huge sums of money would be saved that way.

It looks like the Sharks game will be on Versus HD (also owned by Comcast) Tuesday night.

Not sure if that makes anyone else feel better, but I'm sure as hell glad to be watching Tuesday's Sharks game in HD!

And yeah, go figure, it's a local game.

The game will be on CSN-BA HD.
http://sharks.nhl.com/index.html



If it's on Versus HD, it's probably just the CBC-HD crappy 16:9 SD feed, and might be blacked out locally because the game is on CSN-BA HD.

What's better than HD is seeing it live and in person, and I'll be there, hopefully with tears of joy at the end not tears of sadness, followed by anger and rioting. :D

Looks like the CBC HD truck is in San Jose, so it should be true HD on Tuesday.

The Calgary fans are not amused by the 16:9 SD either:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=47385&page=18

It *is* sad that the NHL hasn't forced every team to house HD gear.

Here's the link to the Chronicle page on the AP wire story.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/04/20/financial/f115944D74.DTL&hw=comcast&sn=001&sc=1000

Sure would be interesting to see everyone jump over and leave a comment on how different things are here in CA. :)

Looks like the CBC HD truck is in San Jose, so it should be true HD on Tuesday.


Great. So locally on CSN-BA HD, or nationally on Versus HD, or in Canada on CBC-HD, people will get see either the Sharks finally put out the Flames or perhaps one of the biggest heart breakers in recent Bay Area Sports history (At least the biggest heart breaker in Sharks history that's for sure), in crystal clear high definition. Niiice. :D


GO SHARKS!!!!!!!!

Yes, most often the shifted program numbers (the part after the dash or period) are on VOD channels where the active program numbers change frequently--I presume that this happens whenever a different subscriber starts a viewing.

Is there a list of known channels that doesn't shift? I know like 2.1 is FoxHD, 5.1 is CBS-HD, etc. But I saw a bunch of other channels and don't know what they are exactly.

Check here (http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdhomerun/channels) for your ZIP code.

The ones you mentioned are virtual channel numbers obtained from the data in the broadcast stream and have nothing to do with the actual rf channel and subchannel/program numbers. On the Silicondust website you'll see what their owners have scanned in your locale.

But they all shift from time to time, whenever Comcast has an urge. :(

Except that it's packed differently for different markets.
Huh? We are talking about our market right? I only have access to the stream from my head-end, which is likely the same stream you are seeing. Wouldn't be able to comment on compression of TNT for other markets.

In our market it doesn't appear to be re-compressed. The tell tale signs aren't there. The re-compressed channels end up around 12-13Mbps, sometimes up to 15Mbps if there is spare bandwidth.

TNT is consistantly 17.8-18.3Mbps.

In 94087 around Las Palmas Park, and still no new channels yet. Interestingly, I get NBC11 on physical channel 110-1 and 110-3 (around 710 MHz) as well as on 33-1. Cable modem downstream is at 705 MHz. I have fingers crossed for so long that they are starting to hurt...
I just checked my modem. I'm at 705 MHz as well. I also got a door hanger today saying that they will be doing work in my neighborhood to bring their Advanced Fiber Optic Network to my neighborhood, but it did not indicate any start date or estimated completion date. All it said is to expect disruptions to my cable and internet service between 7:30AM and 4:30PM, which doesn't affect me because I'm at work during that time. Can anyone comment on how long after receiving a similar notice they received new HD channels?

Great. So locally on CSN-BA HD, or nationally on Versus HD, or in Canada on CBC-HD, people will get see either the Sharks finally put out the Flames or perhaps one of the biggest heart breakers in recent Bay Area Sports history (At least the biggest heart breaker in Sharks history that's for sure), in crystal clear high definition. Niiice. :D


The ZAP TV guide is currently listing the HD Sharks game on Versus,
and the HD SF Giants game on CSN-BA.

The ones you mentioned are virtual channel numbers obtained from the data in the broadcast stream and have nothing to do with the actual rf channel and subchannel/program numbers. On the Silicondust website you'll see what their owners have scanned in your locale.

But they all shift from time to time, whenever Comcast has an urge. :(

Great! Thanks. That helps a lot.

Huh? We are talking about our market right? I only have access to the stream from my head-end, which is likely the same stream you are seeing. Wouldn't be able to comment on compression of TNT for other markets.

In our market it doesn't appear to be re-compressed. The tell tale signs aren't there. The re-compressed channels end up around 12-13Mbps, sometimes up to 15Mbps if there is spare bandwidth.

TNT is consistantly 17.8-18.3Mbps.

I mean they are packed differently on different head-ends.

TNT is on 489mhz here for example, in that list posted a few pages back it was 537mhz.

Band: Channels
111 MHz: 702 Fox, 705 CBS
201 MHz: 734 A&E, 746 HGTV, 780 Starz
219 MHz: 739 UHD, 747 FOOD, 757 NGC
477 MHz: 736 Sci-Fi, 738 USA, 750 DISC
537 MHz: 725 EPSN2, 737 TNT
579 MHz: 722 VSGLF, 759 CNN, 769 AMC
591 MHz: 706 KICU, 730 NFL
603 MHz: 743 MTV
681 MHz: 720 CSN, 740 MOJO
711 MHz: 711 Kron, 785 SHO
717 MHz: 751 APHD, 754 HDT, 758 HIST
741 MHz: 724 ESPN, 735 TBS
747 MHz: 752 TLC, 770 HBO, 792 Max
753 MHz: 707 ABC, 709 PBS
771 MHz: 703 NBC, 712 CW

I mean they are packed differently on different head-ends.

TNT is on 489mhz here for example, in that list posted a few pages back it was 537mhz.
They are laid out differently on various head-ends. I don't believe they are *packed* differently after the recent change.

All the lists I've seen since the change have the same 2-pak and 3-pak grouping, including the one you quoted.

If you've determined that your TNT is packed as 3-pak then I'd be interested to see what they decided the other 2 channels should be. I was under the impression the 3-pak grouping was determined/mandated by corporate.

If your TNT isn't 3-pak then I don't see why they would go through the effort of obtaining a re-compressed version of TNT for 2-pak distribution when other head-ends are using the full version.

Earlier posts in this thread about the new channels being broadcast on the same bands as old channels got me curious so tonight I went channel by channel looking at the MHz band on each of the HD channels in our lineup. So for anyone else in Alameda who was curious, here's what our channel bandwidth looks like:

Band: Channels
111 MHz: 702 Fox, 705 CBS
201 MHz: 734 A&E, 746 HGTV, 780 Starz
219 MHz: 739 UHD, 747 FOOD, 757 NGC
477 MHz: 736 Sci-Fi, 738 USA, 750 DISC
537 MHz: 725 EPSN2, 737 TNT
579 MHz: 722 VSGLF, 759 CNN, 769 AMC
591 MHz: 706 KICU, 730 NFL
603 MHz: 743 MTV
681 MHz: 720 CSN, 740 MOJO
711 MHz: 711 Kron, 785 SHO
717 MHz: 751 APHD, 754 HDT, 758 HIST
741 MHz: 724 ESPN, 735 TBS
747 MHz: 752 TLC, 770 HBO, 792 Max
753 MHz: 707 ABC, 709 PBS
771 MHz: 703 NBC, 712 CW

*sigh* Glad we get what we pay for... oh wait. No, we don't.

Here in San Francisco (94110 / The Mission):

609 MHz: 703 NBC, 712 CW
735 MHz: 702 Fox, 705 CBS
741 MHz: 751 APL, 754 HDT, 758 HIST
747 MHz: 724 ESPN, 735 TBS
753 MHz: 707 ABC, 709 PBS
759 MHz: 704 KRON, 785 SHO
765 MHz: 752 TLC, 770 HBO, 792 MAX
771 MHz: 725 ESPN2, 737 TNT
795 MHz: 743 MTV
801 MHz: 739 UHD, 747 FOOD, 757 NGC
807 MHz: 720 CSN, 740 MOJO
819 MHz: 706 KCIU, 730 NFL
825 MHz: 722 GOLF/VS, 759 CNN, 769 AMC
831 MHz: 734 AETV, 746 HGTV, 780 Starz
837 MHz: 736 SCIFI, 738 USA, 750 DSC

So it looks like the same groupings, but in different 6 MHz blocks.

Why don't they put SciFi in with MTV?

I saw some incredibly bad artifacts, macroblocking and frame drops during a concert on MOJO. Worse that BSG on Friday, if that was possible... Pans and the spotlights were disasters, so maybe that's why MTV gets its own?

Why don't they put SciFi in with MTV?
You don't see it with your STB, but there is another stream being broadcast with MTV. I'm projecting what I see on my head-end to yours.

Here's mine, yes it looks like same groupings, different freqs.

747 MHz: 703 NBC, 712 CW
555 MHz: 702 Fox, 705 CBS
753 MHz: 751 APL, 754 HDT, 758 HIST
219 MHz: 724 ESPN, 735 TBS
717 MHz: 707 ABC, 709 PBS
741 MHz: 704 KRON, 785 SHO
711 MHz: 752 TLC, 770 HBO, 792 MAX
489 MHz: 725 ESPN2, 737 TNT
651 MHz: 743 MTV
693 MHz: 739 UHD, 747 FOOD, 757 NGC
681 MHz: 720 CSN, 740 MOJO
273 MHz: 706 KCIU, 730 NFL
261 MHz: 722 GOLF/VS, 759 CNN, 769 AMC
369 MHz: 734 AETV, 746 HGTV, 780 Starz
201 MHz: 736 SCIFI, 738 USA, 750 DSC

There's also HD VOD which is likely on the MHD channel.

Another question though, you have a lot of channels above 800Mhz (obviously on a 860+ head) while I'm on a 750mhz (which maxes at 753Mhz apparently..) Obviously there is PLENTY of room to have NO 3-packs on a 860+ system, wonder why they aren't doing it?? For that matter, is there really not enough room on a 750mhz system to avoid it? I mean there's only 15 channels being used for ALL High-Def channels... :mad:

There's 6 HD channels that are 3-packed. So they only need 3 lousy channels to avoid that. They don't have room (or can make room) for 3 stinking channels in the entire system?

Not to mention, I haven't seen a single damn HD show on AMC yet. Just strech-o-vision crap.

Here's how they have it setup in Union City:

111 MHz: 702 KTVUDT, 705 KPIXDT
201 MHz: 734 AETVHD, 746 HGTVD, 780 STRZHDP
219 MHz: 739 UHD, 747 FOODHD, 757 NGCHD
477 MHz: 736 SCIFIHD, 738 USAHD, 750 DSCHD
537 MHz: 725 ESPN2HD, 737 TNTHD
579 MHz: 722 GOLFVS, 759 CNNHD, 769 AMCHD
603 MHz: 743 MHDTV
711 MHz: 704 KRONDT2, 785 SHOWHDP
717 MHz: 751 APLHD, 754 HDT, 758 HSTRYHD
741 MHz: 724 ESPNHD, 735 TBSHD
747 MHz: 752 TLCHD, 770 HBOHDP, 792 MAXHDP
753 MHz: 707 KGOHD, 709 KQEDHD
771 MHz: 703 KNTVDT, 712 KBCWDT
783 MHz: 706 KICUDT, 730 NFLHD
795 MHz: 720 CSNHD, 740 MOJOHD

Not to mention, I haven't seen a single damn HD show on AMC yet. Just strech-o-vision crap.

They were airing Terminator 2 over the weekend. Look pretty good, was not stretched.

Wrong. They can easily get the HD signal from the CBC via satellite. All they need is permission. But, it may cost money. Or, they may simply be to lazy to deal with it. In either case, it's CSN's decision not to carry it.

It's not that simple. There was a Giants game in LA a few years ago where they were having technical difficulties, so the Dodgers people were kind enough to share their feed. For half the game, we heard the Giants announcers over the Dodgers footage, and it was really off putting. There'd be some random closeup of somebody over and over again (probably because the Dodgers announcers were talking about the guy), but the Giants announcers would be talking about something else. Even worse, they'd be talking about something, and where you'd normally expect to then see what they were talking about, it never happened.

Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, but I'll gladly give up HD to get a coherent broadcast.

Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, but I'll gladly give up HD to get a coherent broadcast.

ooo yeah no i definitely would have to go with HD. but point taken.

The Chron picked up the AP story sfhub posted above today.

You know, it's the last 2 sentences of that article that will explain why companies like Comcast will continue to do what they are doing. Why should they do anything different?

I submitted the list of compressed channels to the article sfgate.com today since Comcast refused to do so in the article. Unfortunately the comments are pretty buried and I doubt they'll get back to the author, Chris Williams.

However, I found his AP email. Think it's worth sending him the compressed channel list and/or redirecting him here?

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Williams_Chris_16846222.aspx

It's not that simple. There was a Giants game in LA a few years ago where they were having technical difficulties, so the Dodgers people were kind enough to share their feed. Actually, it is that simple. The audio and video feeds are two different things. Often, when a game is carried on two channels simultaneously, they will share the video feed, but use different audio feeds. They will also insert their own commercials in the breaks and as well as scoreboard graphics. It is common practice, and quite easily done.

Do you really think there are two sets of cameras and video production facilities at every televised team sporting event?

Obviously there is PLENTY of room to have NO 3-packs on a 860+ system, wonder why they aren't doing it?? For that matter, is there really not enough room on a 750mhz system to avoid it?
According to reports, corporate mandated the feeds come from HITS (trans-rated version) and the channels get 3-pak treatment.

That's one of my pet peaves too that Comcast goes to unpopular bandwidth saving methods before even maxing out their existing bandwidth. I mean why upgrade systems if you aren't going to use the bandwidth. 3-pak for 550 areas makes sense since the choice is lower PQ or no channel at all. For 750 and 860 there should be enough room for the trickling of channels we are getting. For 750, if they were to get 20 HD channels all at once, then I could understand the 3-pak.

snip..
795 MHz: 720 CSNHD, 740 MOJOHDOk look at this, you're obviously on a 860+ plant but they aren't even using anything above 800 like they are on that other guy's. Maybe I'm missing some key detail but it seems to me like there is plenty of room for all these new HD channels without compacting 3 into 1. In fact, it seems like we could have another 10-12 HD channels before they have to resort to 3-packing, at least on 860Mhz plants. Won't help me because I'm on 750 but ummmm... :rolleyes:

The ZAP TV guide is currently listing the HD Sharks game on Versus,
and the HD SF Giants game on CSN-BA.

The guide is wrong (they weren't expecting the series to go 7 I guess). The Comcast guide was wrong too as of last night.

Before the series the Sharks announced that if there was a Game 7, it would be on CSN-BA HD. The Sharks continue to report this as shown in the link I gave to the Sharks website.

Also, prior to the playoffs, CSN announced that any conflicts will be resolved in favor of the playoff team.

Giants won't be in HD tonight (in fact the Giants are moved to CSN-BA Plus), the Sharks will on CSN-BA HD.

Additional proof (The CSN-BA site):
http://bayarea.comcastsportsnet.com/index.jsp

Clearly says Sharks/Flames Game 7 is in HD on CSN-BA.

According to reports, corporate mandated the feeds come from HITS (trans-rated version) and the channels get 3-pak treatment.

That's one of my pet peaves too that Comcast goes to unpopular bandwidth saving methods before even maxing out their existing bandwidth. I mean why upgrade systems if you aren't going to use the bandwidth. 3-pak for 550 areas makes sense since the choice is lower PQ or no channel at all. For 750 and 860 there should be enough room for the trickling of channels we are getting. For 750, if they were to get 20 HD channels all at once, then I could understand the 3-pak.

That would seem to indicate 3-pakking is a long term plan, and/or, they want the "excess" bandwidth for more of those "billions" of VOD viewings. They've already made the hardware/software investment for 3-pak, so I doubt they're going to scrap the idea any time soon. It also would seem to indicate they plan to keep quite a few, if not all, of the current analog lineup for quite some time.

And if I have my numbers right, for Comcast to offer their new DOCSIS 3.0 internet they'll three to four 6MHz slots.

It all boils down to where their priorities are and HD doesn't make a lot of money, while internet, VOD and phone probably do.

So this crappy quality is likely going to be forever?

So this crappy quality is likely going to be forever?

There's no way to give a definitive answer to that, only Comcast can answer that question. All we can do is look at the variables that we can see and make a somewhat educated guess.

My guess is, that it will be used for a long time, maybe even as a precursor to going MPEG4. Fitting 3 MPEG4 channels per QAM shouldn't effect quality. Problem with that scenario is that since subs have already been used to 3-pak MPEG2 quality the idea of "pakking" 5-7 MPEG4 channels per QAM has to be an attractive solution to Comcast. Get the subs happy now with sub-par MPEG2 quality and when MPEG4 comes along just retain that same quality, but with much more bandwidth available.

I was recently upgraded on April 15th, just in time to get the new channels. I'm very disappointed in the PQ since the upgrade. There are just so many artifacts on TBS, HDT, DSCHD and others and the quality is low. I switched to cable from Dish Network not long ago and was impressed by the few HD channels I got before the "upgrade." Now, its just okay, certainly nice to have more channels but its missing the wow factor. I can't wait for the HDPC from DirecTV so I can ditch cable. I've already made an investment in the Digital Cable Tuners and extenders and I love the setup, but if they make the same setup available for DirecTV, I'll be out of here.

So I'm looking at the DirecTV HD packages (https://www.directv.com:443/DTVAPP/global/moreInfoOffer.jsp?productId=prod1010064) and am curious as to CSN-BA vs the old FSN-BA.

Q #1: Is FSN-BA gone entirely, and replaced with CSN-BA? Or is that just on Comcast?

Q #2: I don't see any HD version of any Bay Area sports network on DirecTV. Is that covered by NHL Center Ice?

Q #3: I notice that DirecTV carries a couple of Comcast Sports Net channels. Is this list just not up do date? Or does CSN West cover the Bay Area?

There's no way to give a definitive answer to that, only Comcast can answer that question. All we can do is look at the variables that we can see and make a somewhat educated guess.

My guess is, that it will be used for a long time, maybe even as a precursor to going MPEG4. Fitting 3 MPEG4 channels per QAM shouldn't effect quality. Problem with that scenario is that since subs have already been used to 3-pak MPEG2 quality the idea of "pakking" 5-7 MPEG4 channels per QAM has to be an attractive solution to Comcast. Get the subs happy now with sub-par MPEG2 quality and when MPEG4 comes along just retain that same quality, but with much more bandwidth available.

I've been doing MPEG encoding for a number of years and what we're seeing is re-encoding of an MPEG stream which means that minor artifacts get turned into macro blocks when re-compressed. I was reminded of that yesterday even with MPEG-4 compression when the software I got with a new little 1080p hybrid I just bought re-compressed the original footage (rather than copying it) and turned minor artifacts into macro blocks. Last night I watch an OnDemand Encore HD movie and it was fine and it was even an action film whereas the Showtime HD OnDemand version of Casino Royale I watched a week ago was awful.

I still don't have Sci-Fi HD and today is D-Day for Comcast to let me know what's up and they haven't yet so I'm calling. I certainly won't pay extra for a re-compressed channel with bad artifacts but I think charging for Sci-Fi like it is a premium is absurd and besides the tech insisted I should be receiving it with the package I have.

Yes definitely with MPEG-4 compression you could do good picture quality with 3 channels in one slot. But Comcast would have to replace boxes for that. Sort of short sighted as the this PQ issue has been widely reported and will cost them many new subscribers as well as old ones.

This was posted on Comcast.net's TV forum by a company rep in response to messages about the HD PQ concerns:

HD picture quality is extremely important to our customers and to us. The majority of our HD programming continues to be provided through 2:1 encoding. We recently began using an advanced delivery system for some programming that allows three HD signals to use one 38 megabit channel. The advanced compression technologies we use in our network let us give customers more HD choices and higher picture quality on a bit-by-bit level, whether those signals are delivered in a 2:1 or 3:1 format. There are always adjustments that must be made when any company deploys new technologies, so we’re fine-tuning the network to ensure we’re delivering high quality HD signals through our newly deployed processes as well.

Anyone care to to comment?

So I'm looking at the DirecTV HD packages (https://www.directv.com:443/DTVAPP/global/moreInfoOffer.jsp?productId=prod1010064) and am curious as to CSN-BA vs the old FSN-BA.

Q #1: Is FSN-BA gone entirely, and replaced with CSN-BA? Or is that just on Comcast?

Q #2: I don't see any HD version of any Bay Area sports network on DirecTV. Is that covered by NHL Center Ice?

Q #3: I notice that DirecTV carries a couple of Comcast Sports Net channels. Is this list just not up do date? Or does CSN West cover the Bay Area?#1: FSN-BA is now CSN-BA both on Comcast cable and DirecTV.
#2: HD version of CSN-BA is on DirecTV at channel 654-1. Same programming as Comcast cable channel 720.
#3: List is probably not up to date. CSN West is not for BA but for southern Calif.

In future this is the thread for DirecTV BA related questions:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=615354
Also this is a good forum for DirecTV:
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82

Any time you re-compress something you are going to lose quality, and that includes going from MPEG2 to MPEG4 like the satellites do.

Problem is that Comcast is going from MPEG2 -to- MPEG2.

MPEG4 allows higher quality for the same bit-rate (it's more efficient) so you're going to lose more picture quality with Comcast than satellite.

The advanced compression technologies we use in our network let us give customers more HD choices and higher picture quality on a bit-by-bit level, whether those signals are delivered in a 2:1 or 3:1 format.

What in the hell does this mean?

Not to mention... ahem... if they are 2:1 then you don't need to do ANY re-compression. :rolleyes:

The only thing I can read into this is that MAYBE they can work on better rate-shaping algorithims so that if channel A doesn't need it's full 12.7 megabits (38 / 3) but Channel B needs more, it can borrow from Channel A temporarily...

Otherwise the only way this scheme will get better PQ is by using MPEG4, but that requires an whole system upgrade.

The only other method would be making room for all HD channels to be 2:1 (again) by i.e. moving more channels to digital (turning off analog).

Any time you re-compress something you are going to lose quality, and that includes going from MPEG2 to MPEG4 like the satellites do.

Problem is that Comcast is going from MPEG2 -to- MPEG2.

MPEG4 allows higher quality for the same bit-rate (it's more efficient) so you're going to lose more picture quality with Comcast than satellite.

Not necessarily but then Comcast isn't going to do it the way you won't lose quality. :D You won't lose quality at least noticeable quality often if you are recompressing at higher bitrate than the original.

What in the hell does this mean?

Not to mention... ahem... if they are 2:1 then you don't need to do ANY re-compression. :rolleyes:

The only thing I can read into this is that MAYBE they can work on better rate-shaping algorithims so that if channel A doesn't need it's full 12.7 megabits (38 / 3) but Channel B needs more, it can borrow from Channel A temporarily...

Otherwise the only way this scheme will get better PQ is by using MPEG4, but that requires an whole system upgrade.

The only other method would be making room for all HD channels to be 2:1 (again) by i.e. moving more channels to digital (turning off analog).

Pretty sure what he means is that legacy HD channels are re-modulated from their 6MHz 19.38mpbs data stream to 256QAM at 3MHz data stream. It's get technical, and I don't really have an exacting knowledge of it, but re-modulating to 256QAM does not lose any data as OTA signals require more "payload"(?) space, hence the 1 OTA per 6MHz and 2 QAM channels per 6MHz. Cable, by virtue of being a closed, wired system, is not as susceptible to signal interference and degradation as OTA is.

At least, I think that's how it works.

This was posted on Comcast.net's TV forum by a company rep in response to messages about the HD PQ concerns..........
Anyone care to to comment?

Sure.....it's called Corporate PR BS :mad:

Watched a bit of the AMC-HD broadcast of Ferris Bueller's Day Off last night, and the famous parade scene (where Ferris jumps into the middle of a Germanic Heritage Day parade and sings Danke Schoen and Twist and Shout) was just horrendous. On my two sets (I ran up and downstairs to compare), the problem manifested as what I call "dropped frames"--a stutter in the image indicating lost information, such that a moving object does not move smoothly across the frame but instead hops across--almost a strobe effect. This seemed prevalent particularly whenever it was trying to capture a lot of lateral movement (as in the various dance sequences in the scene). This effect is completely unacceptable to me, but other family members don't seem to care that much (although, if asked, they will admit to noticing it).

For those complaining about the AMC-HD program content, Ferris Bueller was in genuine 16:9 HD. It was one of their evening premier broadcasts--part of some kind of April series--so maybe the non-prime-time stuff is not as well handled/prepared. They are running the "25th Anniversary presentation" of War Games tonight--I presume the presentation will be similarly good (bandwidth constraints notwithstanding).

Am still interested in hearing whether "dropped frames" is the right way to describe the bandwidth problem.

The KPIX report on 3-pak'ing is up at their website.

http://cbs5.com/consumer/hdtv.cable.compression.2.705405.html

I love this part of the article:

And there are other reasons a high-definition picture can appear subpar: The source image might not have been recorded in HD, or the television's settings, the viewing angle and even the ambient lighting in the room could be the cause.

So maybe if I sit on the other side of the couch, the macroblocking will go away...

BTW I call Comcast again today and again the tech confirmed with my package I am supposed to get Sci-Fi HD. I am not supposed to get AMC-HD or CNN-HD the ones that come up "Not Authorized." They're sending someone out.

#3: List is probably not up to date. CSN West is not for BA but for southern Calif.


CSN West is in the Central California area (mainly for the Sacramento Kings).

Great. So locally on CSN-BA HD, or nationally on Versus HD, or in Canada on CBC-HD, people will get see either the Sharks finally put out the Flames or perhaps one of the biggest heart breakers in recent Bay Area Sports history (At least the biggest heart breaker in Sharks history that's for sure), in crystal clear high definition. Niiice. :DActually, the Bay Area has been able to watch the Sharks choke in HD for a few years now. Weren't the last two seasons' playoffs also in HD?

I love this part of the article:



So maybe if I sit on the other side of the couch, the macroblocking will go away...

Yep, if you sit behind the TV the picture is actually better. :(

Watched a bit of the AMC-HD broadcast of Ferris Bueller's Day Off last night, and the famous parade scene (where Ferris jumps into the middle of a Germanic Heritage Day parade and sings Danke Schoen and Twist and Shout) was just horrendous. On my two sets (I ran up and downstairs to compare), the problem manifested as what I call "dropped frames"--a stutter in the image indicating lost information, such that a moving object does not move smoothly across the frame but instead hops across--almost a strobe effect. This seemed prevalent particularly whenever it was trying to capture a lot of lateral movement (as in the various dance sequences in the scene). This effect is completely unacceptable to me, but other family members don't seem to care that much (although, if asked, they will admit to noticing it).

For those complaining about the AMC-HD program content, Ferris Bueller was in genuine 16:9 HD. It was one of their evening premier broadcasts--part of some kind of April series--so maybe the non-prime-time stuff is not as well handled/prepared. They are running the "25th Anniversary presentation" of War Games tonight--I presume the presentation will be similarly good (bandwidth constraints notwithstanding).

Am still interested in hearing whether "dropped frames" is the right way to describe the bandwidth problem.
Yes, we saw that during Battlestar Galactica as well. I didn't see Ferris Beuller but I did catch some of T2 in "real" HD - which actually looked OK. Right before I wrote that (angry) note about AMC they were showing one of my favorite old films "Stir Crazy" in crap-o-vision...

and no sorry, "War Games" is also in Suck-o-vision.

They've already made the hardware/software investment for 3-pak, so I doubt they're going to scrap the idea any time soon. It also would seem to indicate they plan to keep quite a few, if not all, of the current analog lineup for quite some time.
It may be what you suggested or it might not, but I don't think they have made a major hardware/software investment for 3-pak at this stage. From what I have read, that was one of the reasons they mandated feeds come from HITS so they could have one location in Colorado doing all the trans-rating for the rest of the Comcast areas, instead of placing that equipment locally.

Actually, it is that simple. The audio and video feeds are two different things. Often, when a game is carried on two channels simultaneously, they will share the video feed, but use different audio feeds. They will also insert their own commercials in the breaks and as well as scoreboard graphics. It is common practice, and quite easily done.

Do you really think there are two sets of cameras and video production facilities at every televised team sporting event?

Yes. :)

Well, I know that the local Giants broadcasts always have their own cameras and production crew. And I know that the local Warriors broadcasts always do as well. But you got me; I don't know what every single sports team does. And I don't really care. Did you actually read what I wrote? There's a reason that they have their own cameras/crews. To you, HD might be the most important thing in the world, but it's not the only factor in a quality sports broadcast.

As an aside, and this is not directed at anybody in particular, I think this forum loses sight of reality a lot. I mean, I'm in here bitching with the best of them about the state of HD, but things do get blown out of proportion here. An outsider reading this forum might think that we'd all be happier watching an HD test signal than watching quality programming in SD.

This was posted on Comcast.net's TV forum by a company rep in response to messages about the HD PQ concerns:

HD picture quality is extremely important to our customers and to us. The majority of our HD programming continues to be provided through 2:1 encoding.
...
Anyone care to to comment?
Untrue, 18 channels are 3-pak, 17 channels are 2-pak. Majority of HD channels are degraded 3:1.

Of the 17 2-pak channels 8 of them must stay 2-pak (we're using 2-pak as a synonym for not degraded, but it isn't strictly accurate) because of FCC regulations on degrading broadcast locals.

Total # of HD channels - 35
Total # eligible for 3-pak - 27
# of channels gone 3-pak - 18

So 66% of the channels that could be 3-pak, are 3-pak.

Only 33% of channels under Comcast control are 2-pak.

The good news is we have space for 9 more HD channels (using 3-pak). The bad news is adding them will degrade the quality of your existing channels. The sad news is 750 and 860 have spare bandwidth sitting idle while PQ is degraded.

2-pak
1) KQED
2) KGO
3) FOX
4) CBS
5) CW
6) NBC
7) KRON
8) KICU
9) SHO
10) NFL
11) MTV
12) CSN
13) MOJO
14) TBS
15) ESPN
16) ESPN2
17) TNT

3-pak
1) AETV
2) HGTV
3) STRZ
4) HBO
5) MAX
6) TLC
7) GOLFVS
8) CNN
9) AMC
10) DISC
11) USA
12) SCIFI
13) UNIV
14) NGC
15) FOOD
16) HDT
17) HIST
18) APL

Well, they could at least be smarter about it, by swapping channels that are either 720p and/or not fulltime real-HD, OUT of 2:1 and swapping with something that IS 1080i/fulltime HD.

For example, channels that are fulltime 24/7 always REAL HD:
MOJO
HDT
UHD
MHD
CSN (when on)
yet HDT and UHD are 3-packed! HDT for cryin out loud! :(


Channels that are 1080i and have a good portion (more than 1/3?) of real HD:
HBO
SHO
Starz
MAX
SCIFI
DISC
AETV
HGTV
HIST
APL
TLC ?
FOOD ?
yet only SHO is NOT 3-packed... (gee I'm glad I don't pay for HBO any more)


Channels that are 720p:
ESPN
ESPN2
NGC
yet ESPN1/2 are 2-packed!


Channels that are (apprently) RARELY in real HD:
TBS
TNT
USA
AMC
CNN
yet TBS and TNT are 2-packed.

:mad:

So, if you don't have an HD feed for an away game, why not broadcast the SD local coverage on CSN or CSN+ and broadcast the original HD production from the away team's crew in HD on CSN-HD?

The PQ nuts can watch HD and use the radio if need be and others can watch in SD and listen to their favorite announcers.

Well, they could at least be smarter about it, by swapping channels that are either 720p and/or not fulltime real-HD, OUT of 2:1 and swapping with something that IS 1080i/fulltime HD.


A large part of the problem is that these channels are not packaged for Comcast systems alone, these 3-pak groupings are sold by Comcast to other cable companies, possibly cablcos that don't have carriage rights for some of the channels were they to be grouped a bit more intelligently.

It could also be that their faith in the equipment/software that does the compression/packing is overriding the reality of the end product.

My bet would be that creating marketable packages is the ultimate decision maker as to what gets packed with what.

Actually, the Bay Area has been able to watch the Sharks choke in HD for a few years now. Weren't the last two seasons' playoffs also in HD?

Yes, but no choke tonight. SHARKS WIN!!!!!!!!! What a game, was a blast being there!

Sorry to harp on this, but I still haven't found NBC's HD channel.

Does anyone have a Sony XBR2 TV with Comcast's basic extended cable without a cable box in FREMONT? I've done a complete rescan and went through all the channels and don't see it at all.

My HD channels so far are numbers like..

5.1 for CBS
7.1 for ABC
2.1 for fox
9.1 for KQED.

NBC used to be 116.1. Does anyone else's channel numbers look like mine?

Yes, but no choke tonight. SHARKS WIN!!!!!!!!! What a game, was a blast being there!

Wow, you were there? Outstanding! The HD broadcast was good and Hann and Remenda were excellent. There was some bad officiating last night that Remenda was very vocal about. It was nice to see Jeremy Roenick come up big. A lot of folks forget that, in his prime, JR was a great player and goal scorer for the Chicago Blackhawks for a lot of years. His philosophy of always putting the puck on net is something that the Sharks need more of. His second goal, when he picked up his own rebound and top shelved it was a classic.

Well, they could at least be smarter about it, by swapping channels that are either 720p and/or not fulltime real-HD, OUT of 2:1 and swapping with something that IS 1080i/fulltime HD.
...
Channels that are 720p:
ESPN
ESPN2
NGC
yet ESPN1/2 are 2-packed!

Channels that are (apprently) RARELY in real HD:
TBS
TNT
USA
AMC
CNN
yet TBS and TNT are 2-packed.

:mad:
Being 720p does not in and of itself guarantee lower bandwidth requirements than 1080i. The content type is just as important. ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, and TBS often carry sports programming which are usually the most demanding for bandwidth (and also the most watched), regardless of whether they are 720p or 1080i.

I do agree that some of their choices for 3-pak are not well thought out in terms of how much real HD content is being affected. The channels you mentioned fit that criteria.

Sorry to harp on this, but I still haven't found NBC's HD channel.

Does anyone have a Sony XBR2 TV with Comcast's basic extended cable without a cable box in FREMONT? I've done a complete rescan and went through all the channels and don't see it at all.

My HD channels so far are numbers like..

5.1 for CBS
7.1 for ABC
2.1 for fox
9.1 for KQED.

NBC used to be 116.1. Does anyone else's channel numbers look like mine?
NBC is usually packaged with CW (after the 3-pak reorg) On my system, that is ch92. If you know someone with a cable box, you can go in the diagnostic screen and see what frequency it is using and get the channel # from there.

An outsider reading this forum might think that we'd all be happier watching an HD test signal than watching quality programming in SD.As long as they don't pack it 3 per channel, sure.

Yes, but no choke tonight. SHARKS WIN!!!!!!!!! What a game, was a blast being there!Yay! It was nice to see them come back after Nolan's bogus boot-in.

Sorry to harp on this, but I still haven't found NBC's HD channel.

Does anyone have a Sony XBR2 TV with Comcast's basic extended cable without a cable box in FREMONT? I've done a complete rescan and went through all the channels and don't see it at all.

My HD channels so far are numbers like..

5.1 for CBS
7.1 for ABC
2.1 for fox
9.1 for KQED.

NBC used to be 116.1. Does anyone else's channel numbers look like mine?It just shows up as 11.1 on both of my Panasonic TV's.

Sorry to harp on this, but I still haven't found NBC's HD channel.

Does anyone have a Sony XBR2 TV with Comcast's basic extended cable without a cable box in FREMONT? I've done a complete rescan and went through all the channels and don't see it at all.

My HD channels so far are numbers like..

5.1 for CBS
7.1 for ABC
2.1 for fox
9.1 for KQED.

NBC used to be 116.1. Does anyone else's channel numbers look like mine?

You can go here, enter your zip code, and look at the available QAM channels starting at about the middle of the page:

http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdhomerun/channels

It will tell you the physical channel numbers.

KNTV/NBC11 is 116 or 113.something on my Sony
I think it's 116.3 right now though they like to change it.
Hell they might have changed it since the last time I re-(re-re-re)scanned the channels about 2 weeks ago..

Being 720p does not in and of itself guarantee lower bandwidth requirements than 1080i. The content type is just as important. ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, and TBS often carry sports programming which are usually the most demanding for bandwidth (and also the most watched), regardless of whether they are 720p or 1080i.

I do agree that some of their choices for 3-pak are not well thought out in terms of how much real HD content is being affected. The channels you mentioned fit that criteria.This is true, however,

720p is about 55 megapixels/sec (uncompressed)

1080i is about 62 megapixels/sec

1080i is going to generally require more bits/sec.

TBS & TNT may carry live sports a few times a week but it seems like everything else is 90% standard-def. That seems like a real waste of a full 18mb/s channel. If they could come up with an intelligent dynamic rate-shaping system that allocated more bits for the real-HD live sports and less for the fuzz-o-vision... then they could 3-pack those channels and probably provide full PQ most of the time. (and then put something else in that 2-pack, something that's fulltime HD like HDT or UHD or....)

I've called & chatted (5 times in total) with Comcast CSR to find out the package I need to subscribe to in order to receive SCI-FI HD in Belmont, CA.

Despite the fact that that channel is in my Tivo lineup and there is clearly a signal (channel 736) that I am not authorized to receive -- every single time I have been told that Belmont, Ca doesn't receive that channel and my insistence in saying that I do receive that channel (although my cable cards are not authorized) has been met with rudeness and condescension.

Any advice?

Very frustrated!!!

Fabio

This is true, however,

720p is about 55 megapixels/sec (uncompressed)

1080i is about 62 megapixels/sec

1080i is going to generally require more bits/sec.

Only if you are comparing like to like material, like basketball on 720p ABC vs 1080i TNT.

CNN is 1080i. It requires less bandwidth to avoid artifacts than any 720p sports program.

The uncompressed bit rate does not directly translate to the compressed bitrate because you are introducing a compression step that does not necessarily have a direct relationship with the uncompressed bit rate.

I think if they must do 3-pak, the highest priority for *2*-pak should be the stations that do 100% HD content. After that I think they need to make a call what would affect their customers less. Arguments could be made that SciFi should have high priority for 2-pak. Similar arguments could be made that sports programming should have high priority for 2-pak. Sometimes it could be regional.

However that is not how Comcast corporate has decided to choose 3-pak. They are obviously using different criteria.

BTW this response felt like deja-vu :)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13057996#post13057996

However that is not how Comcast corporate has decided to choose 3-pak. They are obviously using different criteria.

Like how much money they can make. I have a feeling like many of the people in the tech oriented industries the guys at the top could not carry on an intelligent conversation about bitrates and encoding technologies. They only know how to talk to stock analysts. What knowledge they have is most likely cursory probably provided by technical director or VP they like (not necessary with accurate information). At that the TD or VP may even be shaking his head at the level incompetency at the top. But in America corporate incompetency seems to be rule rather than the exception.

I've called & chatted (5 times in total) with Comcast CSR to find out the package I need to subscribe to in order to receive SCI-FI HD in Belmont, CA.

Despite the fact that that channel is in my Tivo lineup and there is clearly a signal (channel 736) that I am not authorized to receive -- every single time I have been told that Belmont, Ca doesn't receive that channel and my insistence in saying that I do receive that channel (although my cable cards are not authorized) has been met with rudeness and condescension.

Any advice?

Very frustrated!!!

Fabio

Sorry I can't offer any advice about what to do but I can confirm that I get SCI-FI HD in Belmont, CA (across from Notre Dame elementary). I'm on the Digital Silver package + HDTV + HBO, nothing too unusual. All the new channels where a gray screen when tuned on our Tivo Series-3 prior to Apr 15, after that they just appeared. Strangely though, that is the one channel that is not shown in their TVPlanner guide web-site for my ZIP. Do you get Food HD, CNN HD, Animal Planet HD, etc?

-Kai

Sorry I can't offer any advice about what to do but I can confirm that I get SCI-FI HD in Belmont, CA (across from Notre Dame elementary). I'm on the Digital Silver package + HDTV + HBO, nothing too unusual. All the new channels where a gray screen when tuned on our Tivo Series-3 prior to Apr 15, after that they just appeared. Strangely though, that is the one channel that is not shown in their TVPlanner guide web-site for my ZIP. Do you get Food HD, CNN HD, Animal Planet HD, etc?

-Kai
I just had the Comcast guys here and it took them a long time to try to figure anything out. Their supervisor finally told them that since I don't have expanded cable I won't get those channels and shouldn't get most of the ones I have now.

To me that is a ridiculous extortion fee because I'm never going to watch those channels on expanded. It's time to move probably back to satellite. Comcast doesn't deserve my business nor anyones it is such a poorly run organization. The whole thing is a shell game. May they go bankrupt!

Kai

I receive the signal for Food HD, CNN HD, Animal Planet HD, but I can't watch them because by cable card is not enabled -- and, as long as they insist Belmont doesn't get those channels I can't see how they can enable it.

Agreed with the comment that Comcast is very poorly run.

Sorry I can't offer any advice about what to do but I can confirm that I get SCI-FI HD in Belmont, CA (across from Notre Dame elementary). I'm on the Digital Silver package + HDTV + HBO, nothing too unusual. All the new channels where a gray screen when tuned on our Tivo Series-3 prior to Apr 15, after that they just appeared. Strangely though, that is the one channel that is not shown in their TVPlanner guide web-site for my ZIP. Do you get Food HD, CNN HD, Animal Planet HD, etc?

-Kai

Kai

I receive the signal for Food HD, CNN HD, Animal Planet HD, but I can't watch them because by cable card is not enabled -- and, as long as they insist Belmont doesn't get those channels I can't see how they can enable it.

Agreed with the comment that Comcast is very poorly run.When I've had the unauthorized channel problem, I've gone down to my local Comcast office that has a demo TV and see if that gets the channel. They also should have a printed list showing each channel and what package you need to receive each channel customized for your locality. The CSR there at the office should be able to tell you which package is needed for the SCIFI HD channel. If you have the required package then get them to schedule a tech to come out.

The guy that was just here gave me a brochure that clearly outline how channel lineups for my area work. He said even it was out of date. It is dated 12/07. Did any of you get such a brochure? You'd think it would have been included in a recent bill or a special mailing.

There was no lineup in this month's bill -- the last updated one I got came when they added, among others, Discovery-HD.
The guy that was just here gave me a brochure that clearly outline how channel lineups for my area work. He said even it was out of date. It is dated 12/07. Did any of you get such a brochure? You'd think it would have been included in a recent bill or a special mailing.

Big news!!

http://sharks.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=361468

Sharks announce that locally the entire Sharks/Dallas Series will be in HD! This includes road games on CSN-BA!!!! If the series goes 7, you will see that two games are exclusive to Versus HD (Games 1 and 5), the rest on CSN-BA HD.

KNTV/NBC11 is 116 or 113.something on my Sony
I think it's 116.3 right now though they like to change it.
Hell they might have changed it since the last time I re-(re-re-re)scanned the channels about 2 weeks ago..

Yeah tried 116.3. Nothing. My Sony doesn't seem to scan all available channels. For example the old 116.1 for NBC HD wasn't found by the auto-scan. I found that channel on here. So frustrating. Are we not supposed to get HD channels under Basic Extended package? Should I just call comcast?

Yeah tried 116.3. Nothing. My Sony doesn't seem to scan all available channels. For example the old 116.1 for NBC HD wasn't found by the auto-scan. I found that channel on here. So frustrating. Are we not supposed to get HD channels under Basic Extended package? Should I just call comcast?
I think clau posted that on his Samsung some channels wouldn't show up on an automatic scan but if you went direct to the channel through manual entry it would tune. I think he had one Samsung model where they fixed the scan problem in firmware but the other model they hadn't admitted the problem yet.

I'm sure your area has NBC on the cable lines or many people would be complaining. I think this is just a problem with the TV finding it in a scan.

As I mentioned earlier, if you know any neighbors or friends in the same area with a set top box, you find the frequency very fast and from that you can get the channel #.

I agree that the PQ in the past month seems to have deteriorated. In the past I've had some success in "taking it to the top" by emailing my concerns to the president of Comcast, Brian Roberts.

I've gotten a reply from one of his special assistants and some positive action in the past.

I would strongly counsel anyone writing him (and actually hoping to get something accomplished) to clearly state the problem and the expectations, withing going into a rant or a rabid diatribe about what a horrible company they are. Rationality and reasonability gets results.

EMAIL: brian_roberts@comcast.com

I took your advice and wrote a reasoned, informed memo to Mr. Roberts this past Saturday.

I received 2 emails Monday and have had the Comcast regional director's proxy calling me morning and night since with a fellow visiting me this evening taking signal measurements. I am not sure anything will be done re: 3-packs, but they are certainly interested in giving me some kind of resolution. The compression issue is being elevated tomorrow as my place tested out OK. I showed the tech on live USA HD compression artifacts during the broadcast of How to Lose a Guy in XX Days and he was stunned. I feel he left as a believer in getting it fixed.

I must say that I am very impressed with the response I have received thus far, even if my expectations are low. I'll keep you guys posted on how this pans out.

i'm actually surprised at all the attention this is getting; good to see mainstream media picking up on the story. comcast has to know when we are not pleased and we are not pleased right now. i pay a premium for their cable service so i want both quality AND quantity; i would expect nothing less from them.

Yeah tried 116.3. Nothing. My Sony doesn't seem to scan all available channels. For example the old 116.1 for NBC HD wasn't found by the auto-scan. I found that channel on here. So frustrating. Are we not supposed to get HD channels under Basic Extended package? Should I just call comcast?
In Fremont as of this morning, NBC-HD is on 95-2.

hope this helps,

Peter

In Fremont as of this morning, NBC-HD is on 95-2.

hope this helps,

Peter

Trying that right now, but it doesn't seem to be picking up a signal. Maybe it's not available at this hour. I'll try again during the daytime. Thanks though!

I took your advice and wrote a reasoned, informed memo to Mr. Roberts this past Saturday.

I received 2 emails Monday and have had the Comcast regional director's proxy calling me morning and night since with a fellow visiting me this evening taking signal measurements. I am not sure anything will be done re: 3-packs, but they are certainly interested in giving me some kind of resolution. The compression issue is being elevated tomorrow as my place tested out OK. I showed the tech on live USA HD compression artifacts during the broadcast of How to Lose a Guy in XX Days and he was stunned. I feel he left as a believer in getting it fixed.

I must say that I am very impressed with the response I have received thus far, even if my expectations are low. I'll keep you guys posted on how this pans out.

I wonder if Mr. Roberts knows how confused his organization is when it comes to their tier packages? The two Comcast guys who dropped by yesterday put on a whole "Laurel and Hardy" routine for me trying to figure out what was going on. It was hard for them to even get straight answers from their people and the more I think about the final answer they gave me still doesn't quite make sense.

What is up with the guide for next week? Starting monday KNTV NBC is messed up. The nite shows are delayed a couple of hours or so, duplicates in the listings. My Sony DVR has the same problem. Noticed it for several days now.
Any other area have the cable go out a little after midnite this morning? OK now.

I took your advice and wrote a reasoned, informed memo to Mr. Roberts this past Saturday.

I received 2 emails Monday and have had the Comcast regional director's proxy calling me morning and night since with a fellow visiting me this evening taking signal measurements. I am not sure anything will be done re: 3-packs, but they are certainly interested in giving me some kind of resolution. The compression issue is being elevated tomorrow as my place tested out OK. I showed the tech on live USA HD compression artifacts during the broadcast of How to Lose a Guy in XX Days and he was stunned. I feel he left as a believer in getting it fixed.

I must say that I am very impressed with the response I have received thus far, even if my expectations are low. I'll keep you guys posted on how this pans out.

How were you able to obtain the e-mail of the President of Comcast?
I do have a few things to share with him regarding my service and HD
signals.
Thanks

How were you able to obtain the e-mail of the President of Comcast?
I do have a few things to share with him regarding my service and HD
signals.
Thanks

The email address is pretty apparent in the post you are referring to.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13716200#post13716200

What is up with the guide for next week? Starting monday KNTV NBC is messed up. The nite shows are delayed a couple of hours or so, duplicates in the listings. My Sony DVR has the same problem. Noticed it for several days now.
Any other area have the cable go out a little after midnite this morning? OK now.

Don't know about the outage, but my KNTV NBC schedule is definitely messed up for tonight's prime time on my Sony DVR. The half hour slot at 9:30pm, which is 30 Rock, shows "No Listing". It wasn't this way on last week's schedule download, I assume something amiss in the latest. Obviously it is a system wide problem...

Here are the HD frequencies in Benicia:

237 - Food, National Geog, UHD
555 - CBS, Fox
651 - ESPN2, TNT
693 - CW, NBC
711 - Cinemax, HBO, TLC
717 - KRON, Showtime
741 - ABC, PBS
747 - ESPN, TBS
753 - Animal Planet, HDT, History
771 - Comcast Sports, MOJO
795 - KICU, NFL
801 - MHD
807 - AMC, CNN, Golf/Versus
813 - A&E, HGTV, Starz
819 - Discover, Sci-Fi, USA

(Am I missing a channel? Is it that common to have one HD channel on its own frequency while the others are 2 and 3?)
Edit: I just saw the post with the Alameda frequencies, and the channel pairings match, right down to MHD being on its own

Pardon me for asking, but what does "HDT" (channel 754 where I am) stand for?

-- Don

HDT is "Discovery HD Theater" - it's an all-high def channel with different programming than the main "Discovery" channel (and all the spinoffs, Discovery Kids, etc..) HDT used to be one of the best HD channels, now it's simply average at best.

The "3-pack" HD channels in Seattle also match those in the Bay Area. We don't have AMC or CNN, so that packaging will probably come later. We just got one with Disney, ABC Family, and Science, which you don't seem to have yet.

HDT used to be one of the best HD channels, now it's simply average at best.

One of the best? It was the reference, far as I'm concerned. When I first got my HD set (back when I was on a 550MHz system), it was the best damn thing on TV, period. What a shame...

Exactly.....HDT was the show-off channel. Not anymore!
Now the best I can seem to find is KQED-HD.
Comcast has truely disgraced us.

CBS (KPIX-HD) has had the best HD picture in my experience and since Comcast isn't messing with the OTA video feeds that looks good on cable too.

BTW, I noticed something new this evening that may be of interest to those of you using clear QAM tuners in DTV sets (or equivalent) that have the ability to display the EPG info (aka EIT items) from PSIP data streams. Comcast--while still not having the PSIP virtual channel info straightened back out following the recent musical-chairs episode--has started to include EIT in the PSIP data! So, if your HDTV is equipped for it, you can check out the program guide information directly from the OTA HD stations on the cable.

Is anybody else able to tune to the Tru TV channel? Its listed on the zap2it site for my zipcode (as channel 131), but the guide on the cable box doesn't have it. Is this channel available to anyone else?

Thanks.

Exactly.....HDT was the show-off channel. Not anymore!
Now the best I can seem to find is KQED-HD.
Comcast has truely disgraced us.
No.

They've disgraced themselves.

They've insulted us.

I confirm the same channel pairing (tripling) in Mountain View.

711.0 MHz - Food, National Geog, UHD
555.0 MHz - CBS, Fox
99.0 MHz - ESPN2, TNT
633.0 MHz - CW, NBC
219.0 MHz - Cinemax, HBO, TLC
717.0 MHz - KRON, Showtime
753.0 MHz - ABC, PBS
747.0 MHz - ESPN, TBS
741.0 MHz - Animal Planet, HDT, History
681.0 MHz - Comcast Sports, MOJO
525.0 MHz - KICU, NFL
651.0 MHz - MHD
225.0 MHz - AMC, CNN, Golf/Versus
201.0 MHz - A&E, HGTV, Starz
495.0 MHz - Discover, Sci-Fi, USA

Ron

Is anybody else able to tune to the Tru TV channel? Its listed on the zap2it site for my zipcode (as channel 131), but the guide on the cable box doesn't have it. Is this channel available to anyone else?

Formerly known as CourtTV.

It's on analog here, Ch 65. Tells me that police car cameras will need to be upgraded to HD..

Formerly known as CourtTV.

It's on analog here, Ch 65. Tells me that police car cameras will need to be upgraded to HD..

Thanks, I found it on Ch 65. Looks like zap2it has it listed twice for my zipcode. Presumably at some point it will go digital and move to Ch 131.

CBS (KPIX-HD) has had the best HD picture in my experience and since Comcast isn't messing with the OTA video feeds that looks good on cable too.

BTW, I noticed something new this evening that may be of interest to those of you using clear QAM tuners in DTV sets (or equivalent) that have the ability to display the EPG info (aka EIT items) from PSIP data streams. Comcast--while still not having the PSIP virtual channel info straightened back out following the recent musical-chairs episode--has started to include EIT in the PSIP data! So, if your HDTV is equipped for it, you can check out the program guide information directly from the OTA HD stations on the cable.
My area has had EIT items for many months, maybe half a year. However they only include 12hrs. I think the OTA was at least 24 but I haven't checked in a while.

i'm actually surprised at all the attention this is getting; good to see mainstream media picking up on the story. comcast has to know when we are not pleased and we are not pleased right now. i pay a premium for their cable service so i want both quality AND quantity; i would expect nothing less from them.

DirecTV is now running an ad making fun of cable for raising rates and trashing quality. They are striking now that the press is covering the story. This should result in a nice number of subs leaving Comcast for DirecTV.

Boy, if I was a Comcast shareholder, I would be p***ed.

HDT is "Discovery HD Theater" - it's an all-high def channel with different programming than the main "Discovery" channel (and all the spinoffs, Discovery Kids, etc..) HDT used to be one of the best HD channels, now it's simply average at best.

Yeah, this is one of the most disappointing outgrowths of 3-packing. HDT used to be the channel you wanted to show off to folks; now it's passable but nothing to write home about.

I am of the opinion that some of the artifacting could be reduced if Comcast would convince their content providers to give them a more highly compressed signal to start with. If the content providers were taking their source material and compressing it once to ~12.7Mbps instead of providing an ~18Mbps signal which Comcast then recompresses, it might look better. This is entirely based on my own hobbyist experiences with digital video, namely that recompression tends to exacerbate existing compression artifacts. For example, if you had slight macroblocking after the first compression, the second compression will make that same macroblocking much worse.

It's a shame my only two options are Comcast and U-verse (my apartment building prohibits dishes, and besides I'm on the wrong side for line of sight). I wish Verizon would get its rear in gear in Oakland - I'd even get to keep my Series 3!

This should result in a nice number of subs leaving Comcast for DirecTV.

Boy, if I was a Comcast shareholder, I would be p***ed.

Uhh...I doubt it. Yes, most of us are complaining about the pic quality but we are also like .000001% of the Comcast customer base. The average Joe probably wouldn't even notice the difference if they hadn't read about it in the paper. And I really don't think it's going to be enough to have a noticeable number of people switch over. I think for the average person, quantity is better than quality. D* has had more HD channels for a while now and yet Comcast is still raking in the profits. So if a noticeable number of people didn't switch for that, I don't think they're going to switch because the bitrate on some of their channels went from 17 to 12mbps.

I would be p***ed as a shareholder just on a matter of principle, even if I didn't notice it.
Comcast has approved and executed a decision to willfully degrade existing quality.
That would be all I need to know.....

Get real. Typical shareholders care only about stock price and ROI. Otherwise, there'd be nobody buying oil tarsands stocks to fund the rape of the Canadian wilderness.

Uhh...I doubt it. Yes, most of us are complaining about the pic quality but we are also like .000001% of the Comcast customer base. The average Joe probably wouldn't even notice the difference if they hadn't read about it in the paper. And I really don't think it's going to be enough to have a noticeable number of people switch over. I think for the average person, quantity is better than quality. D* has had more HD channels for a while now and yet Comcast is still raking in the profits. So if a noticeable number of people didn't switch for that, I don't think they're going to switch because the bitrate on some of their channels went from 17 to 12mbps.

Heck, I'd guess there's more people with their cable boxes hooked up to their HD panels with composite video watching stretched SD than there are us bitrate mongers. *sigh*

Doesn't it make you wonder what the Comcast execs/engineers are watching for *their* HD viewing???

Get real. Typical shareholders care only about stock price and ROI. Otherwise, there'd be nobody buying oil tarsands stocks to fund the rape of the Canadian wilderness.

I've never been typical......

Get real. Typical shareholders care only about stock price and ROI. Otherwise, there'd be nobody buying oil tarsands stocks to fund the rape of the Canadian wilderness.

The path to making money for your stockholders is to have a great product that generates lots of revenue for your company. Happy customers = happy stockholders. Unfortunately over the last 20 or more years an attitude has developed with corporate CEOs just to cater to the stockholders and leave their customers in the lurch. Much of the problem is the many corporate CEOs don't have the balls to tell their stockholders they're going to go for the long term growth and not the short term.

Comcast is a real business school case of a company train wreck underway. They don't treat their own employees right so how can the employees get anything straight to the customer. It is a mess that some stock analysts expect to go down like the Titanic. They are a monopoly that needs to be broken up and hopefully a year from now we can see moves in that direction.

If you haven't already checked it out read the comments especially from many Comcast employees on this blog:
http://comcastmustdie.blogspot.com
and this one:
http://www.jobvent.com/companyBrowse.php?CompanyID=269

Also if you're going to email Brian Roberts better do it soon as I've read that stockholders aren't happy with the Roberts family owning only 1% of the shares yet running things and want some changes made.

The TV series "Chuck" was a great comedy about workers at at Best Buy like store. Imagine how even funnier a series about workers at cable company could be.

Imagine too if you went to Starbucks to get a latte and were told you had to also buy a cup of their brewed coffee to get the latte. How long would they last doing that? That's what Comcast is doing by making the Extended Cable a tax to allow you to have the services you want if you don't want those SD channels.

Need the Forums Help !!!

As most of you people know Mr. Rick Germano and his group will be in the Bay Area on the 7th of May to address the concerns of Comcast customers. I have been invited to attend either the group meeting or the private bloggers meeting on that date. I'm leaning towards the bloggers meeting but there's a personal reason for that ;). I would like to get some input from the group on what you would like for me to bring up to Mr. Germano and his group. I have already decided on some of the things that I personally would like to ask them but I would also like to bring up some of your concerns also.

Here's some of the things I will be bringing up to them.

1) Why the use of "3 packing" and what do they intend on doing about the apparent loss of picture quality.
2) Status of when all of the upgrades in the Bay Area will be completed.
3) What is Comcast's plan on the use of Switched Video. Is it going to be deloyed and if so when and what does Comcast plan on doing for those customers that use other boxes other than the Motorola boxes, like the Tivo's.
4) Status of Tivo/Comcast software guide and the newly released I-Guide.
5) DOCSOS 3.0, when will it be deployed and what areas will get it first.
6) New channel additions ( Here's where I need your input on what you would like to see added next to the lineup), and how will Comcast address the competitions recent channel additions.
7) My favorite bitch, what are the plans for getting rid of the analog channels or at least moving most of them to digital to free up more bandwidth.
8) Comcast needs to better communicate with it's customers, better informed CSR's, a web site that actually tells you what is available in your area and a consolidated package lineup that is the same through out the Bay Area.... etc.

These are some of the topics I think need to be addressed by Comcast but if you can think of more ideas please post to the forum so I can add them to my list.

I can't say this will fix anything but it will let Comcast know what the customers in the Bay Area think is important to them.

I know that it's really easy sit there and bitch and moan about problems but that accomplishes nothing, this is your chance to actually work with Comcast to at least try and get things done or changed for the better. It's up to you.....

Laters,
Mikef5

Uhh...I doubt it. Yes, most of us are complaining about the pic quality but we are also like .000001% of the Comcast customer base. The average Joe probably wouldn't even notice the difference if they hadn't read about it in the paper. And I really don't think it's going to be enough to have a noticeable number of people switch over. I think for the average person, quantity is better than quality. D* has had more HD channels for a while now and yet Comcast is still raking in the profits. So if a noticeable number of people didn't switch for that, I don't think they're going to switch because the bitrate on some of their channels went from 17 to 12mbps.

DirceTV keeps adding subs at good pace, and I think their churn is at an 8 yr low. I don't think Comcast is quite in the same shape.

As more people find out about how Comcast is degrading video, they move to other choices, FIOS if you are lucky, and DirceTV for most everyone else. This is especially true for higher margin premium subs who value HD disproportionately more than lower margin basic or expanded basic mostly analog subs.

This is not good for Comcast shareholders.

1) Why the use of "3 packing" and what do they intend on doing about the apparent loss of picture quality.
2) Status of when all of the upgrades in the Bay Area will be completed.

I would like to know why they don't use existing bandwidth on 750/860/1000 systems before they resort to picture degrading techniques.

Mikef5: Thanks for passing on our requests!

1) I can't stress enough to please be adamant about the HD PQ degradation by "multi-packing"! It's way beyond "apparent", and no other issue even comes close, IMO.

6) New channel additions: I, for one, would forsake any further additions as damage control for current & further compression and degradation. Other than that, my requests would be: Biography-HD Speed-HD

Not listed: For Moto DCH3416 users, when will firmware update 18.43 be sent out to the Bay Area to resolve the non-functioning red recording lights issue?

I would like to know why they don't use existing bandwidth on 750/860/1000 systems before they resort to picture degrading techniques.

Thanks SFHub, I'll put that as part of my, Why the "3 packing" question, but if I'm not mistaken ( heaven knows that doesn't happen :p ) the existing boxes can't make use of anything above 860 MHz. To me that would require them to replace all the boxes with newer boxes that can make use of that area. That may or may not be what they plan on doing in the future but I surely will ask that question for you.

Laters,
Mikef5

Oddly, I'm somewhat torn here. Obviously, I don't want PQ degradation. On the other hand, I have 2 TiVo HDs and I don't want to see switched video.

Mikef5: Thanks for passing on our requests!

1) I can't stress enough to please be adamant about the HD PQ degradation by "multi-packing"! It's way beyond "apparent", and no other issue even comes close, IMO.

6) New channel additions: I, for one, would forsake any further additions as damage control for current & further compression and degradation. Other than that, my requests would be: Biography-HD Speed-HD

Not listed: For Moto DCH3416 users, when will firmware update 18.43 be sent out to the Bay Area to resolve the non-functioning red recording lights issue?
MDS54,

The reason I said apparent is because I personally don't see it but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and I will stress to Mr. Germano's group that a lot of people are seeing the picture quality being degraded and are concerned about it. Picture quality should be their prime concern again as it was in the past. Unfortunately, with the pressure of having to add more and more HD channels to keep up with the competition, this has not been their top priority and I agree that it should be once again.

The firmware that you are asking about was issued back East to correct a problem with the Comcast/Tivo boxes and as a side benefit it also fixed the red light problem. I can ask about it but my guess would be when the new guide gets to the Bay Area later this year but it might be sooner.

Your channel suggestions are noted and appreciated and will be added to my list.

Laters,
Mikef5

I doubt you'll get too many answers on that list as most of them involve competitive strategies that Comcast is not about to make public before they are good and ready to.

Regarding DOCSIS 3.0, I would expect that will probably be a year before it's here, and then probably only in AT&T U-verse areas. Comcast has already mentioned that they will be targeting Verizon FIOS areas first with the new protocol, I would think they would do the same in this area.

The meeting will probably focus entirely on customer service, but I do hope you get some answers on the other issues.

I think Comcast should issue date/time stamped tickets/reference numbers for service related problems, I'd have 3 going back over a year that have never been taken care of.

Does anyone else have problems with TNT? For some reason TNT is the only channel where the image keeps going in and out and the most annoying part is that it only happens during the playoff games! During commercials and other programming it works fine.

Need the Forums Help !!!

As most of you people know Mr. Rick Germano and his group will be in the Bay Area on the 7th of May to address the concerns of Comcast customers. I have been invited to attend either the group meeting or the private bloggers meeting on that date. I'm leaning towards the bloggers meeting but there's a personal reason for that ;). I would like to get some input from the group on what you would like for me to bring up to Mr. Germano and his group. I have already decided on some of the things that I personally would like to ask them but I would also like to bring up some of your concerns also.

Here's some of the things I will be bringing up to them.

[B]1) Why the use of "3 packing" and what do they intend on doing about the apparent loss of picture quality.

To amplify what others have said, the PQ of HD sources is by far the most imp factor for me. If Comcast continues along this degradation path, and if satellite is truly higher PQ, I will change.

Thanks SFHub, I'll put that as part of my, Why the "3 packing" question, but if I'm not mistaken ( heaven knows that doesn't happen :p ) the existing boxes can't make use of anything above 860 MHz. To me that would require them to replace all the boxes with newer boxes that can make use of that area. That may or may not be what they plan on doing in the future but I surely will ask that question for you.
If you want to use the spectrum between 860MHz and 1GHz, then you probably need new boxes.

My question however, is why the bandwidth that is available *under* 860MHz (which can be used by existing boxes) isn't being utilized.

Mike, obviously I have a big problem when it comes to number 8. Comcast is like the IRS, you'll get a different answer from each CSR. It's like they want to hide what it really takes to get certain channels. And even the techs that show up don't know. Comcast is just a shell game.

I think Comcast should issue date/time stamped tickets/reference numbers for service related problems, I'd have 3 going back over a year that have never been taken care of.
Yeah they were, they were autoclosed after 48hrs of no response. CLOSED - customer did not respond to inquiries. :)

Never mind they never contacted you.

Mike, obviously I have a big problem when it comes to number 8. Comcast is like the IRS, you'll get a different answer from each CSR. It's like they want to hide what it really takes to get certain channels. And even the techs that show up don't know. Comcast is just a shell game.

Brian,

One of the problems with the cable in the Bay Area is that no two areas are the same. What channels you get in one area doesn't always equate to what the rest of the areas get. Even what is available in their different packages is not the same from area to area. What Comcast plans on doing once all the upgrades are completed later this year is to implement a standard lineup that is the same for all areas in the Bay Area. This would alleviate the problem about what is available on cable, no matter what area you are in. This is one area I definitely want the Germano group to understand, they have to have all packages available to all areas at the same price. Just like their competition has done.

As far as a tech being able to tell me what my lineup should be, it's not his job to know that and I don't expect him to know that. What I want him to do is fix my problem with as little interruption to my life and time as possible. With a standard lineup package that problem should not exist and should be available to all CSRs and on the Comcast website. We'll see what happens when all the upgrades are completed.

Laters,
Mikef5

I would think that the offices in my area should know how things work rather than argue amongst themselves and give me misinformation. As once before they didn't need to send a tech out if they had the proper information at hand. All the techs (2 of them) were able to do was confirm that the lines were okay. Seems to me Comcast wastes a lot of money this way.

I still say the most ludicrous response I ever received from a Comcast CSR to date was over the phone when I was asking about the new ads appearing on the channel guide. She replied: " I don't know, Sir......I don't watch TV"

That alone tells me everything I need to know about Comcast CSRs and their hiring criteria (or lack thereof)!

The ONLY positive CS resolution I ever received was by directly calling an actual staff engineer after my problem had been escalated to his level. He fixed both reception problems - from the headend - immediately, while the CSRs wanted to setup tech visits and assume that the problem was on my end.

Yeah they were, they were autoclosed after 48hrs of no response. CLOSED - customer did not respond to inquiries. :)

Never mind they never contacted you.
I have no trouble believing it, I still can't get over the sticky pad note one CSR made during a visit to the office about a problem. Seriously, is that how a multi-billion dollar company communicates internally? :rolleyes::D

Need the Forums Help !!!

Laters,
Mikef5

Ok - Mikef5, it's great that you can provide our inputs to the top brass.

I agree with everything stated so far - the #1 issue MUST be PQ. Comcast must, if they wish to avoid losing high paying customers, get back to the model that holds PQ above nearly everything else.

But I've got to add two frustating items to your list:

1) Why, in all the YEARS of SW upgrades, are we still saddled with a STB that is so, well, er.... LOUSY? They try to push TiVo on top of this box and it should have been clear from the beginning that the STB has serious problems even before that. I've nearly thrown the remote across the room as the box either ignores (then executes all the cached commands....one....at.....a....slow....time) or decides to reset. Just because!

Ask them this question: Are they a video delivery service, first and foremost, or do they see themselves as Internet and phone service first with video a secondary service? The answer to that will tell us everything we need to know going forward (and whether we should hang out and wait for fixes, or just jump to Fios/Direct now).

2) Why did they add the ads and yet are still unable to provide more than 5 lines of guide data at once? It's beyond silly to have a huge HD screen with even larger fonts. Nuke the ads, and give us the option to adjust the number of lines of guide info.

Thanks again!

-Dave

2) Why did they add the ads and yet are still unable to provide more than 5 lines of guide data at once? It's beyond silly to have a huge HD screen with even larger fonts. Nuke the ads, and give us the option to adjust the number of lines of guide info.



Yeah......I second that one!

The PQ problems are far and away my largest concern. It's unfathomable why that degradation in quality occurs when there is bandwidth to spare.. 3pak must go, or they honestly need new people evaluating the quality if the suits were told the quality would be the same and they based their decision on that.

..a Comcast CSR to date was over the phone when I was asking about the new ads appearing on the channel guide. She replied: " I don't know, Sir......I don't watch TV".

Wot? :eek: Should be a job requirement for merit increases.

One of the problems with the cable in the Bay Area is that no two areas are the same. What channels you get in one area doesn't always equate to what the rest of the areas get. Even what is available in their different packages is not the same from area to area. What Comcast plans on doing once all the upgrades are completed later this year is to implement a standard lineup that is the same for all areas in the Bay Area. This would alleviate the problem about what is available on cable, no matter what area you are in. This is one area I definitely want the Germano group to understand, they have to have all packages available to all areas at the same price. Just like their competition has done.
Are you saying they will implement standardized channel packages, or that they should implement them?

2) Why did they add the ads and yet are still unable to provide more than 5 lines of guide data at once? It's beyond silly to have a huge HD screen with even larger fonts. Nuke the ads, and give us the option to adjust the number of lines of guide info.


Yeah......I second that one!

YES! This is as important to me as PQ. The ads take up at least 2 lines of program info. And, the most ridiculous thing is that they do not produce any revenue for Comcast. They are ads for Comcast! For free stuff! (I don't recall ever seeing a PPV ad, for instance. They send emails for those.)

LOSE THE ADS!!!

NOW!!!

Mike,

I strongly disagree with you. Regardless on offering different packages in different towns, a CSR should be able to get my address and give the exact line-up I receive. This is 2008, it's extremely simple to set up a system to do that, and completely unacceptable that they have not done it.

Also, stress the fact that it's unacceptable for CSRs to lie to customers ("Sir we don't offer SCI-FI HD in Belmont" I have been told by 5 different CSRs)

Brian,

One of the problems with the cable in the Bay Area is that no two areas are the same. What channels you get in one area doesn't always equate to what the rest of the areas get. Even what is available in their different packages is not the same from area to area.
Laters,
Mikef5

Mike,

One of the themes you are seeing here, and one of my pet peeves with Comcast, is their internal communication. When they rolled out the new HD stations and then blew the setup so that SciFi-HD was unavailable after a few hours of functioning, nobody at Comcast knew what was going on. If you contacted a CSR, they would waste Comcast's time and money (and their customers') with the usual diagnostic measures (reboots, "hits", etc.) If they just had a functioning area report database then they would have known this was an area-wide problem.

Of course, they could just designate the AVS Forum as the area wide database. But then they'd have to pay us and actually listen to what we say. ;)

On most of your items, I agree with Keenan--they are long-term technical solutions but ones on which your input is not likely to get a lot of traction. I'd focus on ways for them to immediately use the existing technology to improve performance. I suspect even removing Expanded Basic from analog is beyond the pale--there are still far more J6Ps with analog only service who are going to bark about losing Court . . . er . . . TruTV cop shows than there are those of us geeks who notice that PQ has been impacted on HD. But if you can point out ways in which they can use existing technology (more sensible application of three-pak channel assignments, etc.) to keep customers like me from fleeing to DirecTV, you are more likely of getting some success.

Just MHO, of course.

Tom

YES! This is as important to me as PQ. The ads take up at least 2 lines of program info. And, the most ridiculous thing is that they do not produce any revenue for Comcast. They are ads for Comcast! For free stuff! (I don't recall ever seeing a PPV ad, for instance. They send emails for those.)

LOSE THE ADS!!!

NOW!!!

They're making money for someone, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Are you saying they will implement standardized channel packages, or that they should implement them?
He's saying they should implement standardized channel lineups/packages.

IMO, they should do it for if no other reason than their CRS can then, maybe, possibly, hopefully, be able to provide some useful information to a prospective customer/sub. :D

Also, stress the fact that it's unacceptable for CSRs to lie to customers ("Sir we don't offer SCI-FI HD in Belmont" I have been told by 5 different CSRs)

This is semantics, but, a lie is defined as a false statement with deliberate intent to deceive. There is a difference between a lie and plain ignorance of the fact. Do you really believe that 5 different CSRs intended to deceive you, that they knew that SciFi-HD was available in Belmont but intentionally didn't want you to know it? I think not. I think they don't actually know what is really available, and that is the problem. That all goes back to the original argument that internal communication leaves a lot to be desired.

Mike,

I strongly disagree with you. Regardless on offering different packages in different towns, a CSR should be able to get my address and give the exact line-up I receive. This is 2008, it's extremely simple to set up a system to do that, and completely unacceptable that they have not done it.

Also, stress the fact that it's unacceptable for CSRs to lie to customers ("Sir we don't offer SCI-FI HD in Belmont" I have been told by 5 different CSRs)
Comcast just has to make the decision to spend the money to provide the tools and training to make this happen, otherwise it will be the same old story. It's become SOP if you want an answer to a question other than whether the sun is shining or not, you'll have to get pass the frontline CSR.

I don't think the CSR's are lying, they just haven't been told, trained, communicated to or pummeled hard enough, to know the answers.

This is semantics, but, a lie is defined as a false statement with deliberate intent to deceive. There is a difference between a lie and plain ignorance of the fact. Do you really believe that 5 different CSRs intended to deceive you, that they knew that SciFi-HD was available in Belmont but intentionally didn't want you to know it? I think not. I think they don't actually know what is really available, and that is the problem. That all goes back to the original argument that internal communication leaves a lot to be desired.
Agree, but Fab2007 is right about the communication problem, it's 100% inexcusable in this day and age for the lack of information.

They need some sort of information guru, or expeditor, someone who is in constant contact with each headend tech department and then provides the info in a simple to read document sent to every CSR's computer and backed up by a hard copy on FAX and also via US mail. How hard can that be? Comcast seems to have made an art of having a lack of information, and this is a company in the communication business.

He's saying they should implement standardized channel lineups/packages.

IMO, they should do it for if no other reason than their CRS can then, maybe, possibly, hopefully, be able to provide some useful information to a prospective customer/sub. :D

Actually, what I'm saying is both, they should have a standardized package offering and that is their plan once all the upgrades are finished.

Now, on a totally different topic.

Did anyone else get the message on your box about Multi-room viewing with OnDemand programs ??. It reads like this, "With any Room On Demand, programs you start in one room are viewable in another. Open On Demand SAVED PROGRAMS and pick up where you left off ! "

I've tried it and it does work but I only see a limited usage for this function, like watching an On Demand program in the front room late at night, save a spot in the program and pick it up on the bed room box at that same spot. What I'm really hoping for is true multi-room viewing for anything I have recorded not just On Demand stuff. To bad it's the weekend or I'd find out if this is a harbinger of things to come. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Need the Forums Help !!!

Laters,
Mikef5

Great issues to bring up. Can't wait to hear Comcast's responses.

its so weird, when i was watching BSG last night, there were moments that it looked clean, even on motion shots, then there were moments that it looked like a block party, even on still shots. but overall it was a little cleaner than the last week's episode.

the non-3 pack channels still look great. the giants game on KNTV last night, really clean!

Actually, what I'm saying is both, they should have a standardized package offering and that is their plan once all the upgrades are finished.

Now, on a totally different topic.

Did anyone else get the message on your box about Multi-room viewing with OnDemand programs ??. It reads like this, "With any Room On Demand, programs you start in one room are viewable in another. Open On Demand SAVED PROGRAMS and pick up where you left off ! "

I've tried it and it does work but I only see a limited usage for this function, like watching an On Demand program in the front room late at night, save a spot in the program and pick it up on the bed room box at that same spot. What I'm really hoping for is true multi-room viewing for anything I have recorded not just On Demand stuff. To bad it's the weekend or I'd find out if this is a harbinger of things to come. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

You probably have to buy a new tier (that you don't want) to make that feature work. :D

I think possibly you posted a statement some time back from a Comcast exec that they wanted to craft their lineups to the different demographics in the area. It may have been an interview in the SF Chron. What people want in Santa Rosa might not do so well in San Jose, etc. Of course maybe that exec is history too.

Comcast just has to make the decision to spend the money to provide the tools and training to make this happen, otherwise it will be the same old story. It's become SOP if you want an answer to a question other than whether the sun is shining or not, you'll have to get pass the frontline CSR.

I don't think the CSR's are lying, they just haven't been told, trained, communicated to or pummeled hard enough, to know the answers.

From what I've read even the supervisors lie or make things up. The company is just too big! It is the Peter Principle in operation. I would love to know who the idiot exec is that makes up the rules for the packages or tiers. They make entirely no sense! I'm sure it is a CF in a board room somewhere with some ego winning out over more sensible people (such is the case so often in large corporations).

its so weird, when i was watching BSG last night, there were moments that it looked clean, even on motion shots, then there were moments that it looked like a block party, even on still shots. but overall it was a little cleaner than the last week's episode.

the non-3 pack channels still look great. the giants game on KNTV last night, really clean!

BSG was better than last week, though still not good enough. I notice poor PQ most when there are dramatic changes in brightness. Did anyone get the bandwidth?

What I would give to be able to buy the HD version from iTunes... (Of course, then Comcast would probably throttle our internet accounts.)

We should compile a list of the feedback websites for the HD channels that are being 3-packed and start putting pressure on Comcast in the other direction. I am sure they will be interested to hear that Comcast is mangling the signal which I am sure is not cheap for them to generate.

Here's the SciFi Channel email.

feedback@scifi.com

Watching NASCAR on ABC (channel 707) and have noticed some judder, especially right now after they restarted the race (after the inevitable big one).

And it isn't JUST about HD. If you guys want to see a truly HORRIBLE SD channel, check out channel 7 (the SD channel of the race). It is completely unwatchable - rainbow effects, smearing, etc.

I don't know if this is Comcast's fault or not, but it is really BAD. Are we SURE there's no 3-packing of network channels? And what about over-packing the SD?

-Dave

The SD feed is probably just the HD scaled to SD. HD cameras especially 720p can be susceptible to judder. There are probably settings to help but my bet the crew really isn't all that up on the technology yet. It'll take a few more years especially if they keep hiring inexperienced folks to keep the budget low.

Watching NASCAR on ABC (channel 707) and have noticed some judder, especially right now after they restarted the race (after the inevitable big one).



-Dave
It's KGO or ABC, noticed the same thing on the DirecTV feed.

its so weird, when i was watching BSG last night, there were moments that it looked clean, even on motion shots, then there were moments that it looked like a block party, even on still shots. but overall it was a little cleaner than the last week's episode.


Probably caused by other co-resident channels in the 3-pak "stealing" some for their high motion.

What people want in Santa Rosa might not do so well in San Jose, etc.

After billions of dollars and years of research, they've determined that they could have saved money and time by giving Santa Rosa the HD that everybody else has had all along.

The absolute worst SD channels are Azteca America on either 196 or 620. Not sure why there are 2 of the same but both exhibit mosquito noise and massive amounts of macroblocking, with normal picture quality equivalent to EP speed recorded VHS. I only watch when my soccer team's games are on, usually Saturday at 5pm. Total crap PQ.

I have my cable directly connected to my TV, and was able to get free local HD channels like ABC, NBC, FOX, etc. A month ago, none of the old network numbers work. I re-scanned the TV and I still can't find the HD channels except ABC (7-1)

Can someone tell me what the main local network's channel lineup is for redwood shores?

Thank you!

My 32" LCD will not tune Marin County Systems channel 7.1 or 9.1 . All other Comcast Network clear QAM HD channels (2.1, 11.1 and 5.1 tune OK. Message when selecting either channel is "Now Tuning" and a few seconss later the TV displays " Not Authorized". It seems like the TV thinks it's tuning an encrypted channel.

My other newer Bravia 50" works fine.

Any Ideas?

I have my cable directly connected to my TV, and was able to get free local HD channels like ABC, NBC, FOX, etc. A month ago, none of the old network numbers work. I re-scanned the TV and I still can't find the HD channels except ABC (7-1)

Can someone tell me what the main local network's channel lineup is for redwood shores?

Thank you!
Fayewolf

I'd suggest a phone call to your local Comcat office that you'd drive to to to pickup a Comcast leased receiver. A Techie there should be able to tell you exactly what the HD lineup is and especially what ABC,NBC,CBS, Fox and PBS networks and other sub-channels are clear QAM encoded.

Thanks!! I was told that they will tell us that we're not suppose to get free HD channels for free, that's why I never call and ask them...

I have a really hard time believing that a company like Comcast can add channels to its lineup and don't have them reflected in the lineup CSRs have.
If it's true, the rudeness of the CSRs is not their worse problem.


Agree, but Fab2007 is right about the communication problem, it's 100% inexcusable in this day and age for the lack of information.

They need some sort of information guru, or expeditor, someone who is in constant contact with each headend tech department and then provides the info in a simple to read document sent to every CSR's computer and backed up by a hard copy on FAX and also via US mail. How hard can that be? Comcast seems to have made an art of having a lack of information, and this is a company in the communication business.

My TiVoHD informed me today that two new channels 764 Family HD and 765 Disney HD were added to my channel lineup. However there's nothing currently on these channels.

Is this a sign of things to come soon or a TiVo error?

They're making money for someone, otherwise they wouldn't be there.
Really? Who would be paying Comcast to advertise a free Comcast service?

You are assuming that Comcast knows what it is doing, and only does what makes sense. Just pick out any ten posts in this thread, and you will see 8 reasons why that is not so.

Comcast may have plans for making money with these ads in the uture. Or, they may be making money in other markets. But, the ads in this market are only promos for free Comcast services. As such, they are wasting precious guide real estate. And, quite frankly, if they were revenue-producing, I'd be even more pissed. I pay enough for my cable service. I shouldn't have to see ads in addition to paying for the service.

He's saying they should implement standardized channel lineups/packages.

IMO, they should do it for if no other reason than their CRS can then, maybe, possibly, hopefully, be able to provide some useful information to a prospective customer/sub. :DOf course they should. My question was about the way he wrote it. It seemed like he might have had info that they were actually going to do that.

Did anyone else get the message on your box about Multi-room viewing with OnDemand programs ??. It reads like this, "With any Room On Demand, programs you start in one room are viewable in another. Open On Demand SAVED PROGRAMS and pick up where you left off ! "

I've tried it and it does work but I only see a limited usage for this function, like watching an On Demand program in the front room late at night, save a spot in the program and pick it up on the bed room box at that same spot. What I'm really hoping for is true multi-room viewing for anything I have recorded not just On Demand stuff. To bad it's the weekend or I'd find out if this is a harbinger of things to come. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5They need to implement this feature for the DVR. However, these are two different technologies. With OD, the server saves the spot where you stopped viewing. When you call up saved OD programs on another box in your house, it knows where you left off with the other box, because all the boxes are registered on the same account.

In-home MRV, from box-to-box, requires LAN functionality. Probably beyond Motorola's or Gem's hardware or programming abilities.

Thanks!! I was told that they will tell us that we're not suppose to get free HD channels for free, that's why I never call and ask them...
With Limited Basic which you must have to get cable period (and that is the lowest tier) you would get the local HD channels. The only filter I know of they put on the line is for the Expanded Basic and that wouldn't block the local HD channels.

BTW folks, looking at the fine print on this pamphlet the tech gave me the other day I says nothing about Expanded Basic being required to get any of the tiers, just Limited Basic. Specifically it says "General Information: Limited Cable Service is required to receive other levels of service." It also says: "HDTV Digital Classic: You must subscribe to the Digital Classic Tier to receive these channels." The only channel listed under HDTV Digital Classic is the National Geographic channel. The way the pamphlet looks is that Digital Starter is inclusive in Digital Classic. There are only 5 SD channels listed in Digital Starter all of which I get. According to my bill which I received yesterday I get Digital Classic and Digital Preferred. I think they are scamming us on the Expanded Basic requirement.

Just look at the neighboring Comcast threads on this topic. These Comcast problems are happening all over the country. Not a good sign.

In-home MRV, from box-to-box, requires LAN functionality. Probably beyond Motorola's or Gem's hardware or programming abilities.
I thought they were doing networking over existing coax using MoCA?

I see TiVo folks buying NIM100's on ebay and they appear to work fine for TiVo MRV so it seems like it should work fine for Motorola Follow Me technology.

I could have sworn Follow Me was a feature on the DCH-series DVRs but now I don't see mention of it on the Motorola web pages. Only the QIP-series mentions Follow Me.

The way the pamphlet looks is that Digital Starter is inclusive in Digital Classic. There are only 5 SD channels listed in Digital Starter all of which I get. According to my bill which I received yesterday I get Digital Classic and Digital Preferred. I think they are scamming us on the Expanded Basic requirement.
My understanding is Digital Starter really means Digital Expanded Basic. It includes the ADS versions of expanded basic and the HD versions of expanded basic. They also throw in 4 "starter" SD digital channels.

It is true you do not need Digital Starter (Digital Expanded Basic) to get Digital Classic (you only need Limited Basic), however if you don't get Digital Starter, you won't get the HD channels associated with Digital Starter.

I don't think they are scamming anyone in the general case. I don't know the details of your plan so maybe they are in your case.

My TiVoHD informed me today that two new channels 764 Family HD and 765 Disney HD were added to my channel lineup. However there's nothing currently on these channels.

Is this a sign of things to come soon or a TiVo error?

not jumping up in joy if these channels are gonna lead to more 3 packing

BSG was better than last week, though still not good enough. I notice poor PQ most when there are dramatic changes in brightness. Did anyone get the bandwidth?

What I would give to be able to buy the HD version from iTunes... (Of course, then Comcast would probably throttle our internet accounts.)

We should compile a list of the feedback websites for the HD channels that are being 3-packed and start putting pressure on Comcast in the other direction. I am sure they will be interested to hear that Comcast is mangling the signal which I am sure is not cheap for them to generate.

Here's the SciFi Channel email.

feedback@scifi.com

The Sci-Fi channel should put a 720p version on their web site, they already have an SD version. You can request that in your e-mail.

not jumping up in joy if these channels are gonna lead to more 3 packing

Disney, Family and Science HD are delivered to Comcast/HITS as a 3 Pack, so you'll probably see all 3 of those channels show up at the same time (they are rolling them out in many other locations now).

The 'good' news is it shouldnt degrade the quality of any existing HD channels..just that you are getting 3 new HD-Lite channels.

Disney, Family and Science HD are delivered to Comcast/HITS as a 3 Pack, so you'll probably see all 3 of those channels show up at the same time (they are rolling them out in many other locations now).

The 'good' news is it shouldnt degrade the quality of any existing HD channels..just that you are getting 3 new HD-Lite channels.

At least 2 of those are 720p so the PQ degradation shouldn't be too bad.

My understanding is Digital Starter really means Digital Expanded Basic. It includes the ADS versions of expanded basic and the HD versions of expanded basic. They also throw in 4 "starter" SD digital channels.

It is true you do not need Digital Starter (Digital Expanded Basic) to get Digital Classic (you only need Limited Basic), however if you don't get Digital Starter, you won't get the HD channels associated with Digital Starter.

I don't think they are scamming anyone in the general case. I don't know the details of your plan so maybe they are in your case.

They need to state much much more clearly what is the case in the fine print on the pamphlet. Their behavior is like that of a con man playing 3 Card Monty or a shell game. I'm not the only one who has this issue either here or in other areas of the country. Is this an attitude of "if you can afford an HD set you can chip in an help defer our expansion expenses?" I've run into that in the CE industry but it is a little less prevalent these days now that HD sets are very affordable. And BTW why do the majority of the CSRs tell me (and others) I should be getting the channels without having "Expanded Basic?"

I am wondering what RF channel Sci-Fi is on in my area. Here's what I'm thinking: it falls within the Expanded Basic channels that the filter blocks. I don't think it should but then when the tech took the filter off the Sci-Fi showed up as "Not Authorized" instead of "One Moment Please." Their solution rather than rearranging the channels so that won't happen is to charge you for the Expanded Basic so that channel will work when they hit the box.

I'll be looking into this more this coming week.

...
According to my bill which I received yesterday I get Digital Classic and Digital Preferred.
...Did they charge you an additional $15.95 for Digital Preferred plus $14.95 for Digital Classic or just $1.00 more for Digital Preferred since you already had Digital Classic?

not jumping up in joy if these channels are gonna lead to more 3 packing

It's the case in Seattle.

The "3-pack" HD channels in Seattle also match those in the Bay Area. We don't have AMC or CNN, so that packaging will probably come later. We just got one with Disney, ABC Family, and Science, which you don't seem to have yet.

So, 2 out of 3 on another frequency block -- likely just a matter of time before Mickey gets macro'd.

My understanding is Digital Starter really means Digital Expanded Basic. It includes the ADS versions of expanded basic and the HD versions of expanded basic. They also throw in 4 "starter" SD digital channels.

It is true you do not need Digital Starter (Digital Expanded Basic) to get Digital Classic (you only need Limited Basic), however if you don't get Digital Starter, you won't get the HD channels associated with Digital Starter.

I don't think they are scamming anyone in the general case. I don't know the details of your plan so maybe they are in your case.I think what you refer to as Digital Starter is on the price list dated Nov 07 as Starter Package/Value Package $56.99/mo. Standard Cable is listed here as $55.99/mo.

I also see listed
Family Tier (cannot be combined with Expanded Basic).........$14.95
listed in the base package section. I don't see any section in the channel list for Family Tier. Does anyone know what channels are included in Family Tier and can it be added to Limited Basic?

They need to state much much more clearly what is the case in the fine print on the pamphlet. Their behavior is like that of a con man playing 3 Card Monty or a shell game. I'm not the only one who has this issue either here or in other areas of the country. Is this an attitude of "if you can afford an HD set you can chip in an help defer our expansion expenses?" I've run into that in the CE industry but it is a little less prevalent these days now that HD sets are very affordable. And BTW why do the majority of the CSRs tell me (and others) I should be getting the channels without having "Expanded Basic?"

I am wondering what RF channel Sci-Fi is on in my area. Here's what I'm thinking: it falls within the Expanded Basic channels that the filter blocks. I don't think it should but then when the tech took the filter off the Sci-Fi showed up as "Not Authorized" instead of "One Moment Please." Their solution rather than rearranging the channels so that won't happen is to charge you for the Expanded Basic so that channel will work when they hit the box.

I'll be looking into this more this coming week.Do you have a local office and if so, did you go there and talk to someone about your problem?

The people here at my local office have been able to explain the price list in some detail and what channels I should be getting. I learned long ago not to rely on any CSR on the phone.

not jumping up in joy if these channels are gonna lead to more 3 packing

You can pretty much count on that. In Seattle we have those two 3-packed with Science HD.
(Sorry -- I responded before I read the posts that followed.)

Did they charge you an additional $15.95 for Digital Preferred plus $14.95 for Digital Classic or just $1.00 more for Digital Preferred since you already had Digital Classic?

The bill is for Digital Preferred at $15.95 and says it includes Digital Classic. The Nov 07 lineup differs a little from the pamphlet. The Nov listing shows the HD channels under Digital Classic which was why I was told back then I wasn't getting Discovery HD because I had the old Digital Gold package. The Dec 07 pamphlet lists the Starter Package under HD in the place of the Digital Classic.

Yes, I do plan to drop by the office. On the phone I do pin people down and often have them ask a superior or the head end though. I want to see as an anonymous customer what tale they give me on the lineup. I wonder if the $56 starter package actually includes Limited Basic as that I might consider reasonable compared to adding the $18 on top of it. Maybe I can haggle at the office. :D

I thought they were doing networking over existing coax using MoCA?

I see TiVo folks buying NIM100's on ebay and they appear to work fine for TiVo MRV so it seems like it should work fine for Motorola Follow Me technology.

I could have sworn Follow Me was a feature on the DCH-series DVRs but now I don't see mention of it on the Motorola web pages. Only the QIP-series mentions Follow Me.What Motorola says their boxes are capable of doing, and what they actually do, are usually two completely different things.

As for the method of home networking that they use, it's not important to the point I was making, which was that OD MRV is server based at the head-end, while DVR MRV is LAN-based in the home, regardless of what technology that LAN is using. (LAN doesn't automatically mean ethernet.)

I think I got this sorted out looking between the Nov 07 price list and the packages online. The CSR I talked to on Weds gave me the wrong price for the Starter package by adding the Limited Basic to it when it is already included. Correct me if I'm wrong but if I just order Starter along with my HD box fee (plus taxes and fee) I'll get the HD channels except for the Premiums? That would be $57 minus the box fee. He quoted me something that wound up more than I was paying with the old Digital Gold package. I won't be getting the SD digital channels which I never watched except for Sci-Fi and now it is HD. Somehow in their docs and even online this is not very clear. I went to the two satellite providers too and noted how much clearer their packages are to understand.

As for the method of home networking that they use, it's not important to the point I was making, which was that OD MRV is server based at the head-end, while DVR MRV is LAN-based in the home, regardless of what technology that LAN is using. (LAN doesn't automatically mean ethernet.)
I was responding to your statement that LAN functionality required for MRV is probably beyond Motorola or Gem's hardware or programming abilities. I do not believe LAN is beyond their capabililties as the NIM100's work fine and those are using the same tech that is supposed to be in the STBs. Your reference to "hardware" seemed to be referring to LAN, but maybe you meant something else.

"In-home MRV, from box-to-box, requires LAN functionality. Probably beyond Motorola's or Gem's hardware or programming abilities."

According to this post
http://www.gizmolovers.com/2007/07/17/a-look-a-verizon-fios-tv-20/
Motorola has real time streaming working over MoCA for the DVR they use on FIOS systems.

The streaming and MoCA portion would be the same on our cable systems so I don't see why you feel MRV is beyond the capability of Motorola.

I think I got this sorted out looking between the Nov 07 price list and the packages online. The CSR I talked to on Weds gave me the wrong price for the Starter package by adding the Limited Basic to it when it is already included. Correct me if I'm wrong but if I just order Starter along with my HD box fee (plus taxes and fee) I'll get the HD channels except for the Premiums?
Digital Starter (referred to as Starter package on the price list) includes
1) limited basic
2) (digital) expanded basic
3) 4 or 5 SD "starter" channels

Since it includes limited basic, it also includes limited basic HD.
Since it includes digital expanded basic, it also includes the HD versions of expanded basic.

It does *not* mean you will get every HD except for premiums. There is one (maybe two) HD channel that is part of Digital Classic. National Geographic is Digital Classic and you won't get that unless you add/keep Digital Classic or higher. Some of this could be slightly different in your area.

I think what you refer to as Digital Starter is on the price list dated Nov 07 as Starter Package/Value Package $56.99/mo. Standard Cable is listed here as $55.99/mo.
That is correct, it says "Starter Package" on the price list, but it says Digital Starter on the back where it lists what channels are included.

I am wondering what RF channel Sci-Fi is on in my area. Here's what I'm thinking: it falls within the Expanded Basic channels that the filter blocks. I don't think it should but then when the tech took the filter off the Sci-Fi showed up as "Not Authorized" instead of "One Moment Please." Their solution rather than rearranging the channels so that won't happen is to charge you for the Expanded Basic so that channel will work when they hit the box.

I'll be looking into this more this coming week.
For me, SciFi is at ch69, 495MHz. It shares bandwidth with Discovery and USA. If you get those, then it isn't a filtering problem.

It is possible you have multiple problems preventing you from getting SciFi.

From your comments, one problem definitely is an authorization problem. You might also have a filtering problem.

Digital Starter (referred to as Starter package on the price list) includes
1) limited basic
2) (digital) expanded basic
3) 4 or 5 SD "starter" channels

Since it includes limited basic, it also includes limited basic HD.
Since it includes digital expanded basic, it also includes the HD versions of expanded basic.

It does *not* mean you will get every HD except for premiums. There is one (maybe two) HD channel that is part of Digital Classic. National Geographic is Digital Classic and you won't get that unless you add/keep Digital Classic or higher. Some of this could be slightly different in your area.

Thanks. National Geographic is on the Digital Classic package in my area but I don't watch it much.

For me, SciFi is at ch69, 495MHz. It shares bandwidth with Discovery and USA. If you get those, then it isn't a filtering problem.

It is possible you have multiple problems preventing you from getting SciFi.

From your comments, one problem definitely is an authorization problem. You might also have a filtering problem.

Yes it is Sci-Fi, Discovery and USA that I don't get. When the techs took the filter off those channels showed up as "not authorized."

.......
The streaming and MoCA portion would be the same on our cable systems so I don't see why you feel MRV is beyond the capability of Motorola.

The rest of the STB pretty much sucks, and the Tivo upgrades are not going very well. If following the remote commands in a timely matter without resetting is beyond the capability of Motorola, then...... :rolleyes:

According to this post
http://www.gizmolovers.com/2007/07/17/a-look-a-verizon-fios-tv-20/
Motorola has real time streaming working over MoCA for the DVR they use on FIOS systems.

The streaming and MoCA portion would be the same on our cable systems so I don't see why you feel MRV is beyond the capability of Motorola.You are familiar with Motorola equipment and Comcast Gemstar programming, aren't you?

Just checking.

It does *not* mean you will get every HD except for premiums. There is one (maybe two) HD channel that is part of Digital Classic. National Geographic is Digital Classic and you won't get that unless you add/keep Digital Classic or higher. Actually, when I punch up "Digital Starter" in the Channel Lineup page for my particular zip code on the Comcast website, NatGeo HD is the only HD channel, other than locals, listed.

No wonder the CSR's never know what we're supposed to get either.

Web page? Don't go by that, badly out of date, and never had the right lineup to begin with.

Digital Classic + HDTV gets every HD channel exept NFL and the premiums.

That reminds me....

Hey NFL, how's it feel to be a channel only 2 weeks a year?

Actually, when I punch up "Digital Starter" in the Channel Lineup page for my particular zip code on the Comcast website, NatGeo HD is the only HD channel, other than locals, listed.

No wonder the CSR's never know what we're supposed to get either.
I mentioned earlier there was apparently a change a couple of months back that re-aligned most of the digital classic HD with digital starter instead. As Comcast has different lineups in different areas I cannot say all Bay Area has this setup, but many, if not most, do. There is also the complication of older plans which may override which channels you get.

Digital Classic + HDTV gets every HD channel exept NFL and the premiums.
Obviously that is not the case for Mr. Conrad.

Digital Classic + HDTV gets every HD channel exept NFL and the premiums.Not for me anymore with Limited Basic + Digital Classic. I get "Not Authorized" for newly added HD channels, SCIFI, FOOD, AP, TLC, etc. I guess this deal couldn't last.

Web page? Don't go by that, badly out of date, and never had the right lineup to begin with.

Digital Classic + HDTV gets every HD channel exept NFL and the premiums.


I think this is true if you have digital classic + standard cable (limited + expanded). I don't pay an additional fee for HDTV, but I do pay extra for cable cards and additional outlet fee for the cards.

So basically, you have to pay about $25 or so for 6 compressed/3-pakked HD channels....that's special...

For the Tivo people out there ( like me :) ), it seems both Cisco and Motorola are showing off new " tuner adapters " which will allow the Tivo's to make use of SDV. Here's a link to the article.....
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=152093&site=cdn

Laters,
Mikef5

I think the problem is that when existing customers call in they need some specialized CSRs that act more like a counselor to what your want. Most of their packages and pitches seem to be set up for new customers not existing ones. When I first called in the CSR should have just asked what kind of lineup I wanted. The simple way to put it is that what you want is what many folks who don't even have a box have and that is the Expanded Basic plus the 5 channel digital channels which is the Digital Starter Package. Apparenlty the 5 digital channels are just thrown in for no additional cost from what I can tell and mainly get you some VOD out of it. You'll need the box (either tuner or DVR) to get the encrypted channels.

I was under the assumption as were some of the CSRs and the techs that were here that if I got a digital tier like Classic where I got Sci-Fi I would also get it with the new channels. Apparently the catch-22 that sfhub brought and I had suggested earlier myself is that in my area those channels must be intermixed with the Expanded Basic channels frequency wise. The filter is blocking them so that is why I get "One Moment Please" and once the filter off "Not Authorized" because the box sees the channel is encrypted.

For me the Starter package though might have seemed backwards to a CSR would work. I think it wasn't Limited Basic he added to the quote it was Digital Classic because I thought I needed it for the new channels. The only channel I've watched in months in the SD digital tiers has been Sci-Fi.

For the Tivo people out there ( like me :) ), it seems both Cisco and Motorola are showing off new " tuner adapters " which will allow the Tivo's to make use of SDV. Here's a link to the article.....
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=152093&site=cdn

Laters,
Mikef5

A little depressing to know I will eventually have to rent this big hunk of junk in addition to my TiVo in order to watch TV.

Sorry yes I should've mentioned I have "Standard" analog basic or whatever it's called... the full enchilada... about $53/mo I guess... PLUS digital Classic and HDTV.

For the Tivo people out there ( like me :) ), it seems both Cisco and Motorola are showing off new " tuner adapters " which will allow the Tivo's to make use of SDV. Here's a link to the article.....
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=152093&site=cdn

Laters,
Mikef5

Hmmm...that looks an awful lot bigger than the "dongle" we've been hearing about. Hopefully they (or someone else) makes it smaller...

Hmmm...that looks an awful lot bigger than the "dongle" we've been hearing about. Hopefully they (or someone else) makes it smaller...

I agree, what Tivo needs to do is come out with a box that is "Tru2way", that would solve the SDV and the VOD problems. It would also be nice if they gave us an upgrade path for existing Tivos.

Laters,
Mikef5

Hmmm...that looks an awful lot bigger than the "dongle" we've been hearing about. Hopefully they (or someone else) makes it smaller...

The box shown in that article is for use in Scientific Atlanta(Cisco) systems, it wouldn't be used here. Our area would use the Motorola which supposedly uses the same case as the DCT700. They're both larger than what one would imagine a "dongle" would be though. In fact, at this stage of the game, I think the term "dongle" could be dropped as far as describing any SDV add-on device as it looks like they all will be the size of a small STB.

Right, it isn't a dongle, it is a recycled (design) stripped down DCT-700.

Physically, it is back to the old days of controlling an STB via IR blaster, except now you control via USB instead.

On the positive side, other folks in the house won't change the channel by accident and TiVo gets the video directly instead of using the line outs. Hopefully the tuning STB turns back on after a power outage.

Obviously that is not the case for Mr. Conrad.

For the Tivo people out there ( like me :) ), it seems both Cisco and Motorola are showing off new " tuner adapters " which will allow the Tivo's to make use of SDV. Here's a link to the article.....
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=152093&site=cdn

Laters,
Mikef5

I assume that with SDV which is really a super VOD the locals would still be available all the time on the line? I think the FCC would mandate that and they don't take up that much space anyway. The reason so many of us have cable in the Bay Area is because we can't get any OTA. If all the locals were there then we wouldn't need a box for them such as viewing on a computer or an extra TV with a QAM tuner.

I assume that with SDV which is really a super VOD the locals would still be available all the time on the line? I think the FCC would mandate that and they don't take up that much space anyway. The reason so many of us have cable in the Bay Area is because we can't get any OTA. If all the locals were there then we wouldn't need a box for them such as viewing on a computer or an extra TV with a QAM tuner.
As it currently stands the locals should stay linear (ie as they currently are). However SciFi HD which you have fought to get might end up SDV if we ever go SDV.

As it currently stands the locals should stay linear (ie as they currently are). However SciFi HD which you have fought to get might end up SDV if we ever go SDV.

I would expect all the local broadcast channels, including HD, would stay linear, along with the major cablenets like ESPN, DISC, HBO, etc. But their secondary channels, like ESPNxx and HBOxx would probably go SDV.

I think there's a better than fair chance that the NBC/UNI channels, USA and SciFi may stay linear, certainly USA would I think. TNT would be another. And of course, the channels Comcast has an interest in, the shopping channels would stay linear.

I think they're already doing it in some TW systems, be interesting to see what their lineups look like.

I agree, what Tivo needs to do is come out with a box that is "Tru2way", that would solve the SDV and the VOD problems. It would also be nice if they gave us an upgrade path for existing Tivos.

There was some speculation on Tivo Community that this was why a bunch of refurbed Tivo HDs showed up on Woot last month - that they're making way for a Series 3.5 with tru2way. Strictly rumor, though.

As it currently stands the locals should stay linear (ie as they currently are). However SciFi HD which you have fought to get might end up SDV if we ever go SDV.

If Comcast goes SDV before the dongle is available for Tivo S3/HD, and only give me locals in linear HD channels, I'll ditch Comcast and go OTA. I can already get almost all major HD channels now OTA with just an indoor antenna. If it comes to that I'll investigate more. Getting rid of Comcast cable + HSI and going with DSL will save me about $80/month. I'll just use the savings to buy shows later when they come out on Bluray, or do rental download. I love competition.

Web page? Don't go by that, badly out of date, and never had the right lineup to begin with.It certainly takes the mystery out of why the CSR's never know what customers should be getting, either.

Even going to the local office today the clerk started to give me the wrong information "you need Digital Classic for that" and I pointed out that it was Digital Starter instead so he put that through. They rely on the outdated December 07 pamphlet. I won't know of course until the filter gets removed which might take until Friday unless a truck is in the area.

Has anyone noticed the guide listing for NBC is off by 2.5 hours? I see this on 703 and 3. This is going to mess up my scheduled recordings for this channel if this is not fixed soon!

-Steve

Has anyone noticed the guide listing for NBC is off by 2.5 hours? I see this on 703 and 3. This is going to mess up my scheduled recordings for this channel if this is not fixed soon!

-Steve

Yeah, I just noticed it. If you have anything set to record, you need to change it, because it's recording things 2.5 hours late, too.

I'm watching basketball on TNT and the picture looks as if it's snowing. This is especially noticeable against dark colors. Is this a problem with my TV or with the cable? I've never seen it before.

It's not showing up on any other channel.