San Francisco, CA - Comcast [Text View] - Page 28

Mikef5

04-30-08, 01:42 AM

Since a lot of people seem to have an issue with Comcast's recent use of "3 packing" I asked for a clarification on what exactly Comcast is doing with their signals. I have received this reply which helps to clear up some misconceptions on what is happening and why it is being used. I'll post it as I received it so there is no mistake on what was or wasn't said......

____________________________________________________________ _______

Mike F5:

Per your request, here is an overview of the HD picture quality issue you asked for prior to your upcoming meeting with Rick Germano. Hopefully I’ve covered the major questions you raised and avoided using too much jargon.

The Background:

HD picture quality is extremely important to our customers and to us.

The majority of our HD programming continues to be provided through 2:1 encoding.

We recently began using an advanced delivery system for some programming that allows three HD signals to use one 38 megabit channel. The advanced compression technologies we use in our network let us give customers more HD choices and higher picture quality on a bit-by-bit level, whether those signals are delivered in a 2:1 or 3:1 format.

There are always adjustments that must be made when any company deploys new technologies, so we’re fine-tuning the network to ensure we’re delivering high quality HD signals through our newly deployed processes as well.

We use only the most advanced HD delivery technologies. In fact, we continually evaluate and reject many new technologies because they do not meet our standards.

The Details

Picture quality is the product of many factors, including the quality of the source signal from the programmer as well the way that operators deliver the HD signal. There has been a significant amount of conversation online about bit-rate and compression as key indicators for the quality of HD service. While they are factors that influence picture quality, these indicators alone do not determine the quality of an HD signal.

(Signals with higher bit rates do not always result in a better picture. For example, in 1996 MPEG bit rates were much higher than they are today, but picture quality was lower. With today’s advanced technologies, you can deliver a high quality picture with lower bit rates).

All programmers rely on some type of encoding and compression technologies to deliver their products. All providers (cable, satellite, telcos) take video feeds from those programmers in the form of MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 compressed video, and improvements in compression technologies are happening continually.

Comcast uses a combination of compression techniques and other technologies to deliver great HD pictures. Like many other multi-channel service providers, we use tools like traditional encoding and statistical multiplexing, among others

*Encoding is the process used to convert high definition or standard definition signals into MPEG 2 or MPEG 4 for transport to all providers (e.g., cable satellite, etc).

*Statistical multiplexing is the process whereby many different MPEG streams can be delivered together. This process allows broadcasters, cable providers, satellite and telcos to determine the bandwidth needed for a video service based on the complexity of the scenes in the picture and allocates bandwidth based on the needs of the programming in real-time.

We’ve begun using an advanced encoding technique called second pass encoding for many of our other high definition feeds that produces higher picture quality than single pass encoding.

Second pass encoding removes redundant information and data that is not typically seen by the human eye.

The second pass encoding technology we use is based on increased processing of the original incoming signals from programmers instead of decompressing them into baseband video and audio and then re-compressing them like some other providers do before delivering them across their networks.

One of the key advantages of the second pass encoding system we use is that it optimizes the MPEG video without decompressing it. Each time video is de-compressed and re-compressed a small amount of quality is lost. The process companies like DirecTV use is much like making a copy of a copy of a video tape, while second pass encoding is comparable to using advanced editing techniques to clean distortions from a picture.

Because it's also more efficient, we’re able to deliver more HD content with second pass encoding. However, second pass encoding is not technically appropriate for some of our HD content, so we deliver those channels in their original format. Comcast also delivers local broadcasters’ feeds in the format received from the programmer.

As you know, Comcast is focused with laser-like intensity on maintaining superior HD picture quality. Forum members, where some of the picture quality discussions first started, are now beginning to comment on improvements they’re seeing.

In summary, we’ll continue to make adjustments to the technologies deployed in our network as needed to deliver high quality HD signals and you know that I’ll continue in my efforts to “listen” to the local feedback in the Forum as well as finding the time to keep our long-running dialogue/conversation ongoing.

thanks
____________________________________________________________ _____

So there is your explanation on what Comcast is doing with the signals. Like it or not that is what they have decided to go with and with the proper adjustments and pairing of channels this should work effectively until something else comes along to help with this, like SDV or mpeg4 encoding etc. ... and they are coming sooner than you think.

Laters,
Mikef5

fender4645

04-30-08, 03:02 AM

Thanks, Mike. I'm assuming Mr. J sent this to you. I'll error on the side of caution and use the "I'll believe it when I see it" response...however he does make some good points. Picture quality *is* more than just bit rate and the level of compression. And I believe they really can send down 3 channels at 12Mb/s and still have the quality, sharpness, and clarity we expect for what we we pay. Though it's one thing to say they're going to do it...it's another thing to actually do it. I personally haven't seen the improvements mentioned (but then again I haven't been watching that much TV lately either). But hopefully they stay true to their word...

keenan

04-30-08, 03:19 AM

hcady

04-30-08, 11:09 AM

Guide is now fixed for KNTV.

wish_i_had_hdtv

04-30-08, 11:14 AM

You should try one of those newfangled contraptions - "antennas", I think they're called. You might be able to get your KQED-HD with it.

Plus, the DirecTV HD DVR HR-21 has a USB add-on OTA tuner that enables you to record and view OTA programming seamlessly, including guide info.

Yes, I heard about the USB tuner for the HR-21. The problem is no internal antenna is expected to work from my location - Sutro towers are too far away.

Any others in SJ area able to get KQED OTA with an internal antenna?

sfhub

04-30-08, 11:25 AM

We’ve begun using an advanced encoding technique called second pass encoding for many of our other high definition feeds that produces higher picture quality than single pass encoding.
The proof is in the pudding.

If one feels that 2nd pass encoding, reducing redundant data, can result in 30% bit rate reduction (18->12 Mbps) with "higher picture quality" they will need to prove it to me.

It is insulting to say we are blindly looking at bitrates. We started looking at the PQ using still shots on bfdtv's thread, then started looking at bitrates, when the pictures looked like crap.
Because it's also more efficient, we’re able to deliver more HD content with second pass encoding. However, second pass encoding is not technically appropriate for some of our HD content, so we deliver those channels in their original format. Comcast also delivers local broadcasters’ feeds in the format received from the programmer.
As far as I am concerned, this is the only important line in the post.

hiker

04-30-08, 11:50 AM

Yes, I heard about the USB tuner for the HR-21. The problem is no internal antenna is expected to work from my location - Sutro towers are too far away.

Any others in SJ area able to get KQED OTA with an internal antenna?As you might already know, DirecTV will add KQED-HD in the future some time, more info might be available at http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82. I hope it's soon as no OTA here either and so I'm keeping Limited Basic Comcast to supplement my DirecTV mostly for KQED-HD unitl that time.

jasonander

04-30-08, 12:07 PM

I just wanted to throw in a quick comment about the new HD channels. I get them, have been slowly switching my season passes (on my Series 3) from the SD to the HD channel and have been LOVING IT. I have yet to see any of the issues described here, but I would much rather have a slightly degraded HD signal than a SDV signal that nothing in my house could receive.

Comcast took the approach they thought was the best, and I am sure over time they will get the kinks worked out.

I have to agree with you. I've been torn about the added compression: I'm disappointed in that the picture quality isn't that great especially on fast-moving scenes, however I really appreciate that Comcast has taken the approach that does not leave S3/HD Tivo owners like us in the dark and the picture quality is reasonable for most scenes that do not involve lots of movement. I'd much rather get these new channels than not at all until a tuner resolver for SDV is available. And from the other posts, I'm glad that Comcast is aware of the quality issues and hopefully they will be taking steps to improve the compression.

davisdog

04-30-08, 12:28 PM

Jason,
Just keep in mind, that they have plenty of bandwidth in S'vale to deliver these channels to you without the added compression (and without SDV)

Interesting how they are saying their encoding techniques provide a superior quality to Directv...(Not sure I'd be saying that right now ;)

Anyway, I hope they tune their "laser" and get the quality of the HD signal back to what they say we should be expecting from them.

clau

04-30-08, 12:46 PM

Upgraded.

I guess it has to happen. We're finally upgraded, Sunnyvale 94087 around Las Plasmas Park. KRON-HD shows up as 131-8. KNTV-HD now appears correctly as 11-1, and KBCW-HD as 44-1.

Mikef5

04-30-08, 12:47 PM

The first section of the above was posted a couple of weeks ago at either BBR or Comcast's own forum. The person who gave you this appears just to be reading from a prepared statement.

Within the second part, is it just a coincidence that the channels they are doing this with are the same channels they are selling to other cable companies as well? I would like to see some further detail on the below statement because as it is, it appears to be simply lip service to obscure the real reason why they're doing it, to make money selling to other cablecos along with squeezing more HD to customers to be competitive with the satcos/FIOS. I'd like to know what channels/content they deem as being inappropriate for the 2 pass technology.
Jim,

The person that gave this email to me was Mr. J. and if I didn't make that clear I apologize.
Mr J. doesn't read from a prepared statement, he writes them ;).

Are you saying Comcast "3 packs" the programs that they sell to other providers and sends/sells it to them that way ??

I don't think the way they manipulate the program signals for distribution to the local Comcast areas ( us in the Bay Area ) has anything to do with what they provide/sell to other providers. But since I'm not in the business I can't say that for a certainty but why would one have anything to do with the other ?? In other words what they sell to another cable company isn't "3 packaged", they sell the program feeds to them and they determine what they do with it.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mikef5

04-30-08, 01:12 PM

The proof is in the pudding.

If one feels that 2nd pass encoding, reducing redundant data, can result in 30% bit rate reduction (18->12 Mbps) with "higher picture quality" they will need to prove it to me.

It is insulting to say we are blindly looking at bitrates. We started looking at the PQ using still shots on bfdtv's thread, then started looking at bitrates, when the pictures looked like crap.

As far as I am concerned, this is the only important line in the post.
SFHub,

I think you are taking this way to personal. I didn't see anything insulting in that post, nor do I see where they said you were blindly looking at only bitrates, it only says there is more to it than just bitrates and they tried to explain the technique they are using . It only tries to explain in simple terms what Comcast is doing with the signals. If you feel insulted I'm sure that was not their intent, nor should it be taken that way.

Laters,
Mikef5

sfhub

04-30-08, 01:22 PM

Are you saying Comcast "3 packs" the programs that they sell to other providers and sends/sells it to them that way ??

I don't think the way they manipulate the program signals for distribution to the local Comcast areas ( us in the Bay Area ) has anything to do with what they provide/sell to other providers. But since I'm not in the business I can't say that for a certainty but why would one have anything to do with the other ?? In other words what they sell to another cable company isn't "3 packaged", they sell the program feeds to them and they determine what they do with it.

Comcast doesn't. Comcast Media Center (CMC) does via HITS Quantum.
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6477176.html

All the 3-pak channels we now get come from HITS in Denver via satellite. HITS in Denver also sells these pre-packaged HD channels to other cable operators.

The reason 3-pak is hitting all Comcast areas is because corporate mandated all areas pick up 3-pak channels from HITS. Before the various areas could get their own unadulterated direct satellite feeds. The mandate applies whether you have spare bandwidth or not.

The reasoning is supposed to be that it would cost too much to install the trans-rating equipment in all the various locations so they install it once at HITS in Denver and have everyone get the trans-rated feeds. Everyone includes not only Comcast, but all customers of HITS, which includes various cable providers.

sfhub

04-30-08, 01:26 PM

SFHub,

I think you are taking this way to personal. I didn't see anything insulting in that post, nor do I see where they said you were blindly looking at only bitrates, it only says there is more to it than just bitrates and they tried to explain the technique they are using . It only tries to explain in simple terms what Comcast is doing with the signals. If you feel insulted I'm sure that was not their intent, nor should it be taken that way.
I don't find it personally insulting as in a 4 letter word. I find it intellectually insulting to try to imply people are just looking at bitrates. We could care less about the bitrates if the PQ was there.

Mikef5

04-30-08, 01:29 PM

Comcast doesn't. Comcast Media Center (CMC) does via HITS Quantum.
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6477176.html

All the 3-pak channels we now get come from HITS in Denver via satellite. HITS in Denver also sells these pre-packaged HD channels to other cable operators.

The reason 3-pak is hitting all Comcast areas is because corporate mandated all areas pick up 3-pak channels from HITS. Before the various areas could get their own unadulterated direct satellite feed.

The reasoning is supposed to be that it would cost too much to install the trans-rating equipment in all the various locations so they install it once at HITS in Denver and have everyone get the trans-rated feeds. Everyone includes not only Comcast, but all customers of HITS, which includes various cable providers.

SFHub,

Thanks for that clarification, like I said I don't work in the business so that is news to me but I can see why they would do what they are doing. It always boils down to the bean counters and what is or isn't cost effective but that's way businesses are run now days... Doesn't make it right, just the bottom line is the controlling factor in almost all businesses.

Laters,
Mikef5

keenan

04-30-08, 01:38 PM

Jim,

The person that gave this email to me was Mr. J. and if I didn't make that clear I apologize.
Mr J. doesn't read from a prepared statement, he writes them ;).
Well, with all due respect, and maybe he did write it, and maybe posted it somewhere else first, but that first section is a verbatim read of something that was posted in another forum a few weeks ago.
Are you saying Comcast "3 packs" the programs that they sell to other providers and sends/sells it to them that way ??

I don't think the way they manipulate the program signals for distribution to the local Comcast areas ( us in the Bay Area ) has anything to do with what they provide/sell to other providers. But since I'm not in the business I can't say that for a certainty but why would one have anything to do with the other ?? In other words what they sell to another cable company isn't "3 packaged", they sell the program feeds to them and they determine what they do with it.

Laters,
Mikef5
sfhub has already answered this, and to re-affirm, yes, Comcast/CMC/HITS repaks these HD channels and sells them to other cable services. The local signals are not handled in the same way.

To be clear, this is being done because of costs, bandwidth issues and to create a marketable product to sell to other cable companies, it has nothing to due with maintaining, or "increasing" quality. You'll notice in the post there's not a single mention of the reselling of these channels.

I don't blame Mr. J, as he is not to blame for this and probably has little to no control over this aspect of Comcast's business. No doubt these were decisions made in Philadelphia.

Link to CMC/HITS,

http://www.hits.com/

keenan

04-30-08, 01:46 PM

The proof is in the pudding.

If one feels that 2nd pass encoding, reducing redundant data, can result in 30% bit rate reduction (18->12 Mbps) with "higher picture quality" they will need to prove it to me.

It is insulting to say we are blindly looking at bitrates. We started looking at the PQ using still shots on bfdtv's thread, then started looking at bitrates, when the pictures looked like crap.

However, second pass encoding is not technically appropriate for some of our HD content,
As far as I am concerned, this is the only important line in the post.
Yes, that's the line that got my attention as well. As I noted earlier, it must be just a coincidence then that the channels that are deemed "appropriate" for these compression techniques are the same ones being re-sold to other cable companies? That to me is insulting my intelligence.

Mikef5

04-30-08, 01:48 PM

I don't find it personally insulting as in a 4 letter word. I find it intellectually insulting to try to imply people are just looking at bitrates. We could care less about the bitrates if the PQ was there.

SFHub,

Like I said, the post was only to try and explain is simple terms so that people, like me that don't work in the business or only want to know what is being done to the programs, could have some idea of what was going on, nothing more or less than that.

I just wish people would give this technique time to be better fine tuned and adjusted before blasting it as the downfall of cable. Criticism I understand and Comcast wants to hear from customers and their concerns about this but I feel we should at least give them time to get the proper adjustments made.

You do remember that on 7 May you can voice your concerns to Mr. Germano and his team and you seem knowledgeable enough that your input would be very useful.

Laters,
Mikef5

keenan

04-30-08, 01:53 PM

SFHub,

Like I said, the post was only to try and explain is simple terms so that people, like me that don't work in the business or only want to know what is being done to the programs, could have some idea of what was going on, nothing more or less than that.

I just wish people would give this technique time to be better fine tuned and adjusted before blasting it as the downfall of cable. Criticism I understand and Comcast wants to hear from customers and their concerns about this but I feel we should at least give them time to get the proper adjustments made.

You do remember that on 7 May you can voice your concerns to Mr. Germano and his team and you seem knowledgeable enough that your input would be very useful.

Laters,
Mikef5

Again, with all due respect, this meeting seems to be focused on customer service issues and not the products themselves, that is after all, his new position is it not? He may listen to complaints about PQ, but I seriously doubt you'll get any substantive answers regarding it.

rsra13

04-30-08, 01:59 PM

I guess is true, we have the Marty Schottenheimer of the NHL. :(

Mikef5

04-30-08, 02:09 PM

Yes, that's the line that got my attention as well. As I noted earlier, it must be just a coincidence then that the channels that are deemed "appropriate" for these compression techniques are the same ones being re-sold to other cable companies? That to me is insulting my intelligence.

It seems that people like to imply things that just aren't there.
"Appropriate" might of been a bad choice of words. Maybe " some signals/programs will not benefit from these techniques and thus we will not use that technique for those programs " would've been better phraseology. It has nothing to do with insulting your intelligence, just a bad choice of words or the reading of to much into those words. That's one of the problems with writing these posts and replies, you don't know how a simple mistake in a term or phrase will be taken or how it will be understood or misunderstood by another person.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mikef5

04-30-08, 02:20 PM

Again, with all due respect, this meeting seems to be focused on customer service issues and not the products themselves, that is after all, his new position is it not? He may listen to complaints about PQ, but I seriously doubt you'll get any substantive answers regarding it.
Jim,

Ok, I'll bite. So in your opinion, the meeting in San Fransisco with Mr. Germano is a waste of time since he only wants to deal with customer service issues and not in dealing with anything else and that bringing these issues up to him will get lip service at best. Am I reading this wrong or is the gist of what you are saying ??

If that is what you are saying, I for one don't want to waste my time on what is considered a waste of time or not worth the effort to even try.

Laters,
Mikef5

Fourmica

04-30-08, 02:30 PM

I have to agree with you. I've been torn about the added compression: I'm disappointed in that the picture quality isn't that great especially on fast-moving scenes, however I really appreciate that Comcast has taken the approach that does not leave S3/HD Tivo owners like us in the dark and the picture quality is reasonable for most scenes that do not involve lots of movement. I'd much rather get these new channels than not at all until a tuner resolver for SDV is available. And from the other posts, I'm glad that Comcast is aware of the quality issues and hopefully they will be taking steps to improve the compression.

I had an apples-to-apples moment last night, as I got to watch what I consider the best episode of Equator, the Galapagos episode. The bill-clashing albatrosses, the fish-diving blue-footed boobies, the agile iguanas swimming to the bottom... simply stunning HD nature programming.

The trans-rating on HDT was very evident, with heavy macroblocking, five full-on dropouts with no frames and no audio, and a general lack of pop in the colors. I remember watching this very episode last year on HDT and marveling at how justified my LCD purchase felt :P

Some of the points made in that boilerplate/response that Mike was given are definitely worth considering: MPEG2 compression has improved dramatically in the last twelve years, and I have no doubt that the negative press they're getting over this is worrisome to their stockholders. But I don't think we're going to get what we want - high bitrate HD content - until SDV is a reality. Comcast's rate of change is glacial, alas, though near as I can tell the 3400 and 6400 series Motorola boxen support SDV (TWC is using them for this purpose, I believe?). This would indicate, hopefully that SDV won't be dependent on deploying new customer equipment, but "merely" headend upgrades.

I would reiterate that, if Comcast really wants to push forward with this 3:1 deployment, they should get the content providers to give them 12.7Mbps feeds instead of trans-rating 18Mpbs signals (presuming their statement that they're not recompressing is true). As an example, Universal HD has always been in the 12-13Mbps range as I recall, and while it's not the best, its quality has been more consistent to my eye than Comcast's trans-rated 3:1 packages. I could be completely off my rocker, though.

Verizon, the East Bay calls out for your fiber! :P

edited for terminology, since Comcast is calling it "trans-rating"
edited again - the DCT6400 does not support MPEG4

mds54

04-30-08, 02:32 PM

Quoted from Mr J.: Forum members, where some of the picture quality discussions first started, are now beginning to comment on improvements they’re seeing.

HUH???
Who is saying this???
Have they watched HDT lately?

Brian Conrad

04-30-08, 02:32 PM

Fourmica

04-30-08, 02:41 PM

HD PQ is bound to become a bigger issue as more people buy BluRay players and compare it's output with cable. Two pass compression (variable bit rate) will help but not if the original stream has some artifacts. Those will just get exacerbated. The solution is obviously MPEG-4 streams but that would take new boxes wouldn't it?
Yes, I think it would take new boxes. I thought the DCT6400 series supported MPEG4, but according to this, it does not:

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/TV%20Video%20Distribution/Set-tops/QAM%20Set-tops/Digital-Analog%20QAM%20Set-tops/DCT6400/_Documents/Static%20Files/Final%20DCT6400%20Series%20Product%20Data%20Sheet%20Updated% 20%20514630-001-a.pdf

SDV makes more sense in the near-term as it can, apparently, be done in software on the 6400/3400 series.

keenan

04-30-08, 02:58 PM

It seems that people like to imply things that just aren't there.
"Appropriate" might of been a bad choice of words. Maybe " some signals/programs will not benefit from these techniques and thus we will not use that technique for those programs " would've been better phraseology. It has nothing to do with insulting your intelligence, just a bad choice of words or the reading of to much into those words. That's one of the problems with writing these posts and replies, you don't know how a simple mistake in a term or phrase will be taken or how it will be understood or misunderstood by another person.

Laters,
Mikef5
My statement was pretty much rhetorical in that neither Mr J nor Comcast et al are going to comment on my assertion. That assertion being that the 3-pak channels are 3-pak'ed specifically because they are also the channels that Comcast re-sells to other cablecos. I'd like to know what channels Comcast does deem appropriate(per their technical reasons-marketing reasons not being a factor) for 3-pakking as the way they have them together now seems a bit odd to me.

There's no doubt that there are some channels that are not appropriate, for example, any 1080i channel that shows sports would not be appropriate IMO.

The fact that they are clumping three 1080i channels together can't be due to those channels being "appropriate" channels for this process. IMO, there shouldn't be more than one 1080i channel per 3-pak. Of course, there are exceptions such as SHO and HBO, but what happens when one of those channels airs a boxing match? It will be a mess. When/if those channels go MPEG4, then 3-pakking would be appropriate, but not now. It's being done now because of bandwidth restrictions and customer demand and PQ is going to take a hit in the process, there's no two ways about it.

keenan

04-30-08, 03:03 PM

Jim,

Ok, I'll bite. So in your opinion, the meeting in San Fransisco with Mr. Germano is a waste of time since he only wants to deal with customer service issues and not in dealing with anything else and that bringing these issues up to him will get lip service at best. Am I reading this wrong or is the gist of what you are saying ??

If that is what you are saying, I for one don't want to waste my time on what is considered a waste of time or not worth the effort to even try.

Laters,
Mikef5
It's probably worth the trip, there are plenty of customer service issues that need to be addressed, but as far as product quality itself, I doubt you'll get much traction with those.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but if I understand correctly, Germano's position is focused on CSR issues, not actual products and their quality.

uurf

04-30-08, 03:10 PM

Here's the bulk of channels my new Samsung found last night:

Channel Station Network
2 KTVU-2 Fox
2-1 KTVU-2 HD Fox HD
2-2 LATN
3 KNTV-11 NBC
4 KRON-4 KRON
4-2 KRON-4 HD KRON HD
5 KPIX-5 CBS
5-1 KPIX-5 HD CBS HD
6 KICU-36
7 KGO-7 ABC
7-1 KGO-7 HD ABC HD
7-2 KGO-DT2 ABC News
7-3 KGO-DT3 Doppler
8 KTSF-26 Asian
9 KQED 9 PBS
9-1 KQED 9 HD PBS HD
9-2 KQEDDT2 PBS Encore
10 KTEH PBS
11-1 KNTV-11 HD NBC HD
11-2 KNTW KNTV Weather
12 KBCW CW
13 KBWB
17 KCSMDT PBS
22 CSPAN
29 DSCP Discovery
33 WGNSAT WGN
35 FOODTV Food TV
36 FXP FX
37 TNTP TNT
38 ESPN ESPN
39 ESPN2 ESPN2
40 CSNBA Fox Sports Network
41 TBS TBS
42 USA USA Network
43 MTV MTV
44 VH1 VH1
44-1 KBCW HD CW HD
45 SPIKE Spike
46 LIFEP Lifetime
47 AETV A&E
48 BRAVO Bravo
49 AMC AMC
50 TLC TLC
51 Animal Animal Planet
52 FAMP Family Channel
53 NIK Nikelodeon
54 TOONP Cartoon Network
55 DISP The Disney Channel
56 CNN CNN
57 CNNH CNN Headline News
58 CNBC CNBC
59 FNC Fox News Channel
60 MSNBC MSNBC
61 TWC The Weather Channel
62 THC The History Channel
63 COM The Comedy Channel
64 E! E!
65 TRUTV Tru TV
67 HGTV HGTV
70 BETP BET
71 TRAV Travel Channel
72 TVLAND TV Land
73 SCIFI SciFi
75 CMTV Country Music TV
81 VERSUS Versus
82 GOLF Golf
84-1 KFTY
84-10 88.5
85-13 MPLEX Movieplex
119-1 KICU-36 HD KICU-36 HD

It also found some HD content on 104-10 that was HBO's "John Adams" on someone's VOD (They rewound it at one point).

Mikef5

04-30-08, 03:15 PM

It's probably worth the trip, there are plenty of customer service issues that need to be addressed, but as far as product quality itself, I doubt you'll get much traction with those.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but if I understand correctly, Germano's position is focused on CSR issues, not actual products and their quality.

Doesn't really matter now, I've decided not to go. I'll not waste my time and effort ( and gas for that matter ) on what's considered by this group as a waste of time. I'll have to re-evaluate my status in staying in this forum also. Right now, I don't have that warm and cozy feeling in staying.

Laters,
Mikef5

sfhub

04-30-08, 03:54 PM

I just wish people would give this technique time to be better fine tuned
The customers *are* giving Comcast a chance by not defecting to another provider (yet). After all, that is ultimately what Comcast cares about.
and adjusted before blasting it as the downfall of cable. Criticism I understand and Comcast wants to hear from customers and their concerns about this but I feel we should at least give them time to get the proper adjustments made.
Giving Comcast a chance should not equate to keeping your mouth shut. You didn't say it in those exact words, but it seems to be what you mean by giving Comcast time.

Let's keep it simple. The bottom line is degraded PQ is the cause of the complaints. Fix that and the complaints will go away.

I'm of the opinion if you care about the PQ or the current PQ annoys you, you should complain loud and clear and early. Otherwise Comcast will just say, see, nobody complained, it must be good.

You are a customer, you pay money, it is your right to complain if what you are paying for doesn't meet your needs. In today's business environment, if you don't complain, it will be interpreted as acceptance.

manoj

04-30-08, 04:27 PM

I have to agree with you. I've been torn about the added compression: I'm disappointed in that the picture quality isn't that great especially on fast-moving scenes, however I really appreciate that Comcast has taken the approach that does not leave S3/HD Tivo owners like us in the dark and the picture quality is reasonable for most scenes that do not involve lots of movement. I'd much rather get these new channels than not at all until a tuner resolver for SDV is available. And from the other posts, I'm glad that Comcast is aware of the quality issues and hopefully they will be taking steps to improve the compression.

It sounds like a reason to use SDV is that the Comcast-provided set-top boxes won't tune anything over 860 MHz. I suspect (but don't know) that Tivos can tune over 860 MHz though. My HDHomeRun can do so at least.

So, I'd advocate that they take the channels that have to be switched below 860 MHz and duplicate them unswitched to channels over 860 MHz. Then Comcast boxes, Tivos, and anything else with Cablecard and a high-enough frequency tuner can get all channels (until they run out of the >860 space of course).

And yeah, I realize that there could be all sorts of other problems with this (other cableco equipment not supporting it, lines not maintained well enough to support higher frequencies, and so on), but I do wonder if they've considered this.

A bolder, crazier idea would be for Comcast to actually work with Tivo to get the MPEG4 hardware in the newer Tivos enabled, and encode channels in MPEG4 in those high frequency ranges.

And of course, kill analog channels.

And yes, I do think channel quality has annoyingly gone down in some cases. I've seen scenes on Discovery Channel and HBO look simply awful. But at other times, HBO (after 3-packing) has looked fine to me. I suspect it depends on the bitrate required by the other 2 channels at the time (and of course the specific scene at the time). I am strongly considering downgrading service (and perhaps switching to satellite if I end up moving in a few months).

mds54

04-30-08, 04:39 PM

mds54

04-30-08, 04:42 PM

I'm of the opinion if you care about the PQ or the current PQ annoys you, you should complain loud and clear and early. Otherwise Comcast will just say, see, nobody complained, it must be good.

I totally agree! That's partially why I've been venting on this forum, since we know that Comcast does scan AVS.
The thing is.....many of us *are* complaining, and Comcast is still saying "it must be good"! :(

keenan

04-30-08, 04:59 PM

Doesn't really matter now, I've decided not to go. I'll not waste my time and effort ( and gas for that matter ) on what's considered by this group as a waste of time. I'll have to re-evaluate my status in staying in this forum also. Right now, I don't have that warm and cozy feeling in staying.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mike, don't let my comments dissuade you from going, I'm only one voice. Besides, I already stated I don't think it will be a waste of time regarding customer service issues, I just don't think you'll get much feedback on the PQ problem. I also stated I hope I'm wrong on that count.

I think the fact that we here do raise these issues, and talk in a somewhat negative, or tense style at times supports the idea that this is a warm and fuzzy place to communicate. If I didn't feel as if the folks who post here were my friends, as much as an anonymous poster on an internet forum can be a friend, folks to be able to exchange thoughts and ideas with, I wouldn't even waste the time posting.

Regardless of whether the postings have been negative or positive, you, we, have accomplished quite a bit here, and I'd wager that we have the best communication with Comcast, via you and Mr. J, than any market in the country, and some of that has come about because of all the different viewpoints presented. If we all sat back and said nothing, it's a guarantee nothing will happen, there'd be nothing to communicate about.

Chin up, this forum is not the cold, heartless, unforgiving place you seem to be feeling it is right now.

walk

04-30-08, 05:09 PM

The proof is in the pudding.

If one feels that 2nd pass encoding, reducing redundant data, can result in 30% bit rate reduction (18->12 Mbps) with "higher picture quality" they will need to prove it to me.

It is insulting to say we are blindly looking at bitrates. We started looking at the PQ using still shots on bfdtv's thread, then started looking at bitrates, when the pictures looked like crap.

As far as I am concerned, this is the only important line in the post.

Yeah, the only mildly interesting part of that whole thing was the "2nd pass" stuff.

The rest is quite frankly, crap. We aren't even being that critical, the PQ on the SAME material aired a month ago is noticeably worse even to casual viewers like our wives/girlfriends! (or in some cases both! doh!!)

And he still didn't explain WHY they are doing any of this when it seems like they don't NEED to on 750mhz and certainly on 860mhz heads.

Poochie

04-30-08, 05:16 PM

Fourmica

04-30-08, 05:17 PM

Fourmica

04-30-08, 05:22 PM

mds54

04-30-08, 05:44 PM

Did anyone else notice the following oddity on Tuesday's Sharks/Stars NHL game on CSN-HD?......

You mean the fact that they are now 0-3? :o

davisdog

04-30-08, 06:25 PM

You mean the fact that they are now 0-3? :o

Now you really made me mad!!!!!!

I'd convinced myself that that OT goal didnt really go in..It was just macroblocking that made it look like they lost ;)

wait...I'm still on Dish and had to watch it in SD which is even worse :D for those that still remember what that looks like

ps...MikeF5...just came back from lunch in Milpitas and if I new where you lived I would have delivered a nice cold beer from Keenan to make you smile again.

douginsunnyvale

04-30-08, 07:43 PM

Did anyone else notice the following oddity on Tuesday's Sharks/Stars NHL game on CSN-HD?

Occasionally it would seem like the action would "slow down" for a moment - but not really slow down. More like a lower framerate, which doesn't make intuitive sense to me.

I wasn't seeing breakups or any evidence of a weak signal (stutters etc), just this weird, semi-distracting visual effect. I think I might have seen this on prior FSNBA-HD airings of away games, but not home games, if I recall correctly, but maybe not. But I definitely noticed this when watching last night.

My setup in case it's at all relevant: TiVo S3 outputting "native" (1080i for CSN-HD I believe) via HDMI to Sony HS20.

I saw worse - but I think/hope it's because our long-awaited upgrade is about to happen...we were getting macroblocking/pixelation plus audio dropouts about every 5 seconds, after a few minutes we decided it was too annoying and switched to SD on channel 40...it was grainier than usual and the sound was distorted (skewed to high-frequency and a little bit of cardboard tube reverb)...but it was more watchable than the HD feed...we actually checked to see if the HD feed had cleared up at the start of the 3rd period and found all our HD channels were gone ("This channel should be available shortly")...but Vs on 404 was bright and clear to watch the end of the Avs/Wings game and jokes at the Sharks expense after the disappointing finish.

Checked this morning and even digital channels were gone, our cable internet was also dead...hoping this means the upgrade will be done by the time I get home today...if not, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the last Comcast subscriber in my neighborhood, there sure are a lot of dishes showing up on neighborhood roofs...

To be precise, I'm in the Cherry Chase neighborhood, West Cardinal off Knickerbocker...I've been watching this forum a few weeks now since we've been getting notices about an upgrade and have had quite a few brief outages...last night/today is by far the longest yet

mds54

04-30-08, 07:56 PM

Now you really made me mad!!!!!!
I'd convinced myself that that OT goal didnt really go in..It was just macroblocking that made it look like they lost ;)

Sorry about that! That's what I thought too! ;)
I guess we'll just have to see what kind of macroblocking happens in front of the nets tonight......

Poochie

04-30-08, 07:57 PM

You mean the fact that they are now 0-3? :o

Given what I saw live at the tank on Sunday evening, I wouldn't consider this particular fact an oddity. There, the slowness was not a video artifact.

:mad: :( :mad: :(

wanderance

04-30-08, 08:12 PM

Doesn't really matter now, I've decided not to go. I'll not waste my time and effort ( and gas for that matter ) on what's considered by this group as a waste of time. I'll have to re-evaluate my status in staying in this forum also. Right now, I don't have that warm and cozy feeling in staying.

I am really sorry to hear this. I have really enjoyed your willingness to share everything you can with this forum. I assume I can speak for the majority of the visitors that it has been very helpful. Please don't let a few folks ruin the entire thing though. I have seen it happen time and time again on forums, someone for whatever reason hides behind the computer to make some fairly rude comments. From what I can gather a lot of complaints are only cropping up because someone is watching the bitrate meters and looking for any defect in the signal. I would wager that if those same people just saw the channels pop up and enjoyed them there wouldn't be such a huge fuss. I guess this is the double edge sword, you bring a lot of information and some people take it a little too far.

MANNAXMAN

04-30-08, 08:51 PM

Upgraded.

I guess it has to happen. We're finally upgraded, Sunnyvale 94087 around Las Plasmas Park. KRON-HD shows up as 131-8. KNTV-HD now appears correctly as 11-1, and KBCW-HD as 44-1.
Just turned on the TV to find I was upgraded. If I had checked here earlier today, I would have already known! But I think it was more exciting to find out the way I did. :D

MANNAXMAN

04-30-08, 09:00 PM

Dbower

04-30-08, 09:38 PM

I've not read anything that suggests anger was directed at you, Mike. Only frustration at Comcast and their lack of good communication to CSRs and the end customer.

Even the 3-pack issue would have been somewhat subdued had the response from Mr. J come a lot sooner. But even that is a start.

Please stay!

-Dave

sfhub

04-30-08, 10:01 PM

Chin up, this forum is not the cold, heartless, unforgiving place you seem to be feeling it is right now.
I'd like to add that we can disagree with a position without holding any ill will to the person. That person might even be a good friend and on a different topic, we might totally agree.

fender4645

04-30-08, 10:09 PM

Mike, I'd like to echo everyone else's comments in that your posting here is very beneficial not just because you're in direct contact with Mr. J. but your personal insight as well. I have to admit though that over the past few months this thread has become increasingly negative and repetitive on certain issues. Jim's right in that bringing up issues (both good and bad) is a good way for people to gain knowledge on the current state of affairs. However random posts such as "Comcast sucks because they 3-pak" is pointless and a waste of everyone's time. Yes...we get it...we all want Comcast to change their ways. This topic has received national attention, everyone knows about it, it's time to move on. We're extremely lucky to have someone like Mike take the time to become a liaison between our group and Comcast management. If Mike goes away, so will our liaison and this thread will become dangerously close to being useless.

Chris

curt.k

04-30-08, 11:12 PM

garypen

05-01-08, 12:38 AM

garypen

05-01-08, 12:42 AM

sfhub

05-01-08, 12:45 AM

is the only way of finding all available QAM channels to do a rescan and channel surf?
That is probably the quickest way other than silicondust or hoping someone in your area has done it already.

jasonander

05-01-08, 01:28 AM

Jason,
Just keep in mind, that they have plenty of bandwidth in S'vale to deliver these channels to you without the added compression (and without SDV)

True, however one of my main frustrations with Comcast has been living in an area where we pay the same amount (well, unless you call to complain ;) )and yet do not receive the same channels as everyone else. I don't think I could reverse that position and now ask for Comcast to give us something that the rest of the Bay Area does not... although I wouldn't complain if they did. :)

And Mike, just to echo what others have said here, I have really appreciated your well-written, educational posts and acting as a liaison between the forum and Mr. Johnson. Please don't leave!

nikeykid

05-01-08, 03:05 AM

omg i don't check the forums for one day and look at the mess!

mike come back!

dr1394

05-01-08, 04:22 AM

Here's some analysis of "second pass encoding" from the recent showing of Ratatouille on Starz. A randomly selected I-frame:

http://www.w6rz.net/rat.png

The MPEG-2 quantization levels in that frame:

http://www.w6rz.net/rat1.png

A composite of the above pics:

http://www.w6rz.net/rat2.png

The green blocks are at quantization level 112, which is the maximum. At this level, all of the detail is discarded in each block. The effective resolution in the green areas of the image is 1920/8x1080/8 or 240x135.

The transcoder is looking for flat areas in the image and re-quantizing those areas to 112. For most of the image, that's more or less okay. However, for the old lady's head, it may be too much (although it may still be perceptually acceptable when viewed under typical conditions).

Ron

diskus

05-01-08, 08:09 AM

Upgraded channel list of HD began showing up in downtown Los Gatos early yesterday morning.

Thus far I have not noticed any picture quality issues, looks fine

clau

05-01-08, 02:08 PM

Just turned on the TV to find I was upgraded. If I had checked here earlier today, I would have already known! But I think it was more exciting to find out the way I did. :D

Picked up a second CableCard yesterday. I was on the phone with the Comcast tech for 30 minutes before they finally got the card to work. I have the Digital Starter package, and I am happy that I have a lot of the new HD channels, including SciFi.

Brian Conrad

05-01-08, 02:37 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to find a QAM channel directory for Comcast in Redwood City. The only source I know of from this forum is the Silicondust website, but that does not have much descriptive info about the channels, and I don't know if it has current data. Is there a good online source for local QAM channel info, or is the only way of finding all available QAM channels to do a rescan and channel surf?

Thanks, Curt

I guess what you're looking for is the dump one gets when you scan with the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun so you need to find someone who has that file in your zip code. That gives you a list of all the channels found during the scan and which ones are NTSC, QAM and if QAM whether encrypted or not and frequency, etc. The list on their website is culled from those type of files.

fender4645

05-01-08, 02:44 PM

Here's some analysis of "second pass encoding" from the recent showing of Ratatouille on Starz. A randomly selected I-frame:

The green blocks are at quantization level 112, which is the maximum. At this level, all of the detail is discarded in each block. The effective resolution in the green areas of the image is 1920/8x1080/8 or 240x135.

The transcoder is looking for flat areas in the image and re-quantizing those areas to 112. For most of the image, that's more or less okay. However, for the old lady's head, it may be too much (although it may still be perceptually acceptable when viewed under typical conditions).

Ron

Excellent analysis, Ron! The image you chose seems to have a lot of dark shading which the transcoder handles differently than lighter shades, correct? It would be interesting (or sad) to see this same analysis on a frame where there's a lot of light and/or a fast-moving picture.

Fourmica

05-01-08, 02:47 PM

Here's some analysis of "second pass encoding"
The green blocks are at quantization level 112, which is the maximum. At this level, all of the detail is discarded in each block. The effective resolution in the green areas of the image is 1920/8x1080/8 or 240x135.

The transcoder is looking for flat areas in the image and re-quantizing those areas to 112. For most of the image, that's more or less okay. However, for the old lady's head, it may be too much (although it may still be perceptually acceptable when viewed under typical conditions).

Ron

WOW! Thank you for the analysis, Ron! This is the kind of stuff I love to see here. Your effort is appreciated, and I would enjoy seeing more of this kind of work on other channels if you have the time and motivation. I would also be interested in learning about the software and techniques involved in this kind of analysis if you'd like to share :)

mr. wally

05-01-08, 05:32 PM

does anyone get hd net movies on their comcast hd package?

NeoChaos

05-01-08, 05:39 PM

does anyone get hd net movies on their comcast hd package?

Comcast doesn't carry HDNet at all, as far as I know.

Bill

05-01-08, 07:16 PM

The worst DVR and now 3-pack HD. I have Dish and this is making Charlie look good:rolleyes:. WTF is up with their management? I'm not loyal and watch what all providers are doing. I almost switched back to Comcast. Their upgrade delay stopped me. Sure glad I didn't! Seems to be one thing after another with them. I assume their majority of customers, analog and SD watchers, are still in ignorant bliss.

Hey Mike, Satelite is calling if you bug out. Would make a real statement to Comcast. You'd be welcome to come over and help us out at Dish but you'd probably go to D*.

Hey Keenan, how does that 3-pack HD look on your 73"? Bet you mostly watch D*.
Miss the old "CRT is better than other TV technology" in the Display threads. Do you think we ever convinced them? Since no one is making CRT-RPTVs anymore, I guess not.

wanderance

05-01-08, 07:49 PM

The worst DVR and now 3-pack HD. I have Dish and this is making Charlie look good. WTF is up with their management? I'm not loyal and watch what all providers are doing. I almost switched back to Comcast. Their upgrade delay stopped me. Sure glad I didn't! Seems to be one thing after another with them. I assume their majority of customers, analog and SD watchers, are still in ignorant bliss.

And you are posting in a Comcast forum why? I am glad you like Dish, but really (and I mean really) no one cares.

Bill

05-01-08, 08:43 PM

Speak for yourself. I told you why I'm in this thread. I'm not a Dish Fanboy. My comment about "Charlie" was sarcastic. Sorry you didn't pick that up. I'll ad an emoticon. I've been in this forum a long time, that's not how I roll. Are you some kind of Comcast fanboy? Cool your jets! Maybe my criticism will be read by Comcast and help you guys, and me, out. Duh! If Comcast gets better than Satelite, I'll be back.

keenan

05-01-08, 09:42 PM

Hey Keenan, how does that 3-pack HD look on your 73"? Bet you mostly watch D*.
Miss the old "CRT is better than other TV technology" in the Display threads. Do you think we ever convinced them? Since no one is making CRT-RPTVs anymore, I guess not.

No problem with 3-pak channels here, everything still looks good.:)

Of course, that's only because it's May '08 we still only have 11(5+3+3) HD channels here. :rolleyes: :D

Dospac

05-01-08, 10:03 PM

I've noticed(as has the lady) that the PQ has improved for the 3pak channels considerably. Not as much random color macroblock suckage, it still occurs but is much less frequent now. I can tell it's not as good as before but it's definitely watchable now.. Count me as one forum poster who has noticed the improvement over the past 2-3 weeks.

cperalt1

05-02-08, 10:14 AM

In Vallejo I have noticed a slight drop in quality on the HD channels but not as drastic as other areas. I also do notice of course better PQ using my Cable Card Mitsu RPTV than using the DCT3416. The one area that has gone to crap, however, is the SD broadcasts. The most noticeable for me has been Ch119 PBS Sprout. As a parent of a 1 year old I'm held hostage with that channel and have noticed a significant drop in quality between the week before the last upgrade an now. The quality suffers so much at times that it is almost unwatchable with macroblock, stuttering and audio dropouts. Of course my son can't tell but as a parent having to put up with the already repetative programming it is almost unbearable at times. I also record several shows through firewire to a G4 tower I have plugged in to the tv and cable box and when reviewing the bitrate it seems to be about .5Mb lower than previously but at least thing get softened and are slightly more bearable when I transcode the transport streams to h264 using Handbrake. There are other channels where I have noticed this but this was the most obvious to me since its the one I watch the most. End Rant.

Dbower

05-02-08, 11:03 AM

Not to throw more material into the fire, but has anyone noticed the SD channel quality of late? It's getting worse! Watched Hallmark channel showing of several MASH episodes over several days, and the studdering and judder was horrific. Surfing through some other SD channels revealed the same thing. Panning and motion seems to cause a jump in the picture at about once per second rate.

Anyone see this effect on Direct or Dish SD channels?

-Dave

raghu1111

05-02-08, 05:01 PM

There is a tempting offer for Tivo upgrade in email ($200 including wireless adapter).

I remember some one posting link to a FAQ page on comcast.com that allows small receiver (DCT700?) for receiving On-Demand alone if we are using a CableCard. Is there such an offer? On-Demand is not important for me but usually we use it for friends' kids visiting home. Of course I know I can get one for $6.99 extra outlet fee. I am hoping I can avoid it by getting a box that just does On-Demand.

Cal1981

05-02-08, 05:05 PM

In Vallejo I have noticed a slight drop in quality on the HD channels but not as drastic as other areas. I also do notice of course better PQ using my Cable Card Mitsu RPTV than using the DCT3416. The one area that has gone to crap, however, is the SD broadcasts.

I'm in Vallejo also and I've seen what seems like a drop in SD quality (although SD and quality through an HDTV seems to be a contradiction in terms). I pretty much keep the SD stuff in its native 4:3 aspect ratio if I can. However gnarly SD can be, stretching, even if the set does it well, just makes it worse.

hiker

05-02-08, 05:17 PM

raghu1111

05-02-08, 06:34 PM

You should be able to get the digital box free if it is on your primary TV. See the 2nd to last answer in this FAQ at Comcast here (http://www.comcast.com/customers/faq/FaqDetails.ashx?ID=2540).

Great! This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks hiker.

mazman49

05-02-08, 07:11 PM

Would that digital box be able to receive HD On Demand shows, or only SD?

Cal1981

05-02-08, 08:38 PM

I was surfing and came to HBO-HD playing Soapdish. Maybe they have a bad print but the PQ is pretty poor. It's very soft and the faces almost look like SD.

JasonQG

05-02-08, 09:21 PM

raghu1111

05-02-08, 10:05 PM

Would that digital box be able to receive HD On Demand shows, or only SD?

It would be only SD. Not sure if any one actually managed to get this. I will try.

NeoChaos

05-02-08, 10:08 PM

Comcast sucks not for the PQ problems, but still foistering this Versus/Golf HD combo channel on us. I want the Sharks game in HD, not a golf tournament, dangit!

zeldor

05-02-08, 10:19 PM

well its supposed to be on 720 not VS. (my understanding)
but with the giants game running late their retarded enginers
havent thrown the switch to turn on hockey on 720...

Comcast sucks not for the PQ problems, but still foistering this Versus/Golf HD combo channel on us. I want the Sharks game in HD, not a golf tournament, dangit!

NeoChaos

05-02-08, 10:29 PM

well its supposed to be on 720 not VS. (my understanding)
but with the giants game running late their retarded enginers
havent thrown the switch to turn on hockey on 720...

No, game 5 is a Versus exclusive, so no CSN coverage. However, apparently VS/Golf is reserved for Golf Channel on Fridays and Versus didn't have a contigency plan for those who don't have a dedicated Versus HD channel.

zeldor

05-02-08, 10:37 PM

nhl.com has the station info for the game as being shown locally on
csn-ba. on versus for the rest of the country though.
I guess we will find out in 1 out of a giants game...

No, game 5 is a Versus exclusive, so no CSN coverage. However, apparently VS/Golf is reserved for Golf Channel on Fridays and Versus didn't have a contigency plan for those who don't have a dedicated Versus HD channel.

NeoChaos

05-02-08, 10:44 PM

No, the A's game is listed as being next on CSN HD.

zeldor

05-02-08, 10:44 PM

wtf, are they (comcast) really not going to show the sharks play tonight
at all? I can see hockey equipment being thrown into
comcast offices all over the bay area that is the case...
and yes I am advocating violence, this is hockey after all..

NeoChaos

05-02-08, 10:47 PM

It's on Versus in standard-def. The problem is that the HD coverage is being pre-empted by friggin golf.

zeldor

05-02-08, 10:49 PM

had forgotten about sd-vs.. :(
Im still all for pucks through glass though...

It's on Versus in standard-def. The problem is that the HD coverage is being pre-empted by friggin golf.

pappy97

05-02-08, 10:50 PM

It's on Versus in standard-def. The problem is that the HD coverage is being pre-empted by friggin golf.

This is ridiculous. The Sharks even said this would be on Versus HD. But on Comcast, on the Versus/Golf HD, they are NOT showing it????? Pathetic Comcast, pathetic.

rsra13

05-02-08, 11:23 PM

I thought I was going crazy. :(

davisdog

05-02-08, 11:48 PM

It's not a comcast issue...There is no dedicated Versus "HD" Channel, just the cobranded Versus/Golf HD Channel.

I've got the same problem on Dish...Versus/Golf HD is showing tape delayed golf...CSNBA is showing A's...Only place to watch is Versus SD.

Sucks!...but so do the sharks right now :(

davisdog

05-02-08, 11:50 PM

ps...For those in the newly upgraded Las Palmas/Cumberland Ave of Sunnyvale...Are you getting all the new HD Channels ok now or are some of them screwed up or showing one moment please etc...My parents just got upgraded and at least as of last night still had nothing on many channels, and Channel 7 had gotten screwed up (although some of the new channels do have stuff)

rsra13

05-03-08, 01:57 AM

Too bad that the game was in SD.

I still can't believe it.

rxp19

05-03-08, 04:10 AM

Atleast Sunday's Sharks game will be in HD on Comcast SportsNet HD 720(http://sharks.nhl.com/) even though zap2it and comcast guide is saying it'll be on Vs HD. Either way, should be in HD this Sunday.

I agree that there should've been some contingency plan for Comcast to flip the switch on Golf/Vs HD channel feed to show the game. Comcast does own the majority share (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast) of both channels so you'd think they would have some sort of push on things like this. I'd hate to see the same thing hapapen durring college football season!

OpieSF

05-03-08, 02:18 PM

Any opinions on last night's 7pm SciFiHD BSG broadcast picture quality?

SOMA SF was not improved from previous weeks with heavy pixelation clustered around the 30 to 40 minute marks.

walk

05-03-08, 02:27 PM

Nope, it was worse than last week, which was maybe a little better than the first week...

This week, lots of macroblocking, and even some stray pixels flying all over the place...

Good episode though...

ayewbf

05-03-08, 02:53 PM

I agree with walk's assesment.

Those who deny that 3-pack'ing results in a poor HD experience need look no further than the HD BSG broadcasts. I'm guessing that some of the graininess in BSG is by design and that the grain is bringing out the worst case behavior of the recompression algorithm (resulting in the macro block errors, etc.)
I could upload some frame grabs, or even complete mpeg2 transport stream samples, but without a non-cable copy to compare against it wouldn't prove that the digital artifacts are due to the 3-packing.

It's touching that comcast has sent workers out to people's houses (as if it were a reception problem), but it's not as if one needs to visit anybody's home to reproduce this problem.

Brian Conrad

05-03-08, 03:10 PM

This is the first time (outside of UHD reruns) I've been able to watch BSG on Sci-Fi HD. My comparisons are between the UHD reruns and what I watched last night. First off last BSG makes a lot of use of hand held which is handy when shooting both on a tight budget in tight staged scenes. Hand held introduces more problems when you shoot with in HD as I'm sure some of the folks here who own consumer HD cameras will attest. What even shaking was minor with a SD camera becomes more pronounced with an HD camera. The worst example of a professional film I can think of using hand held is "The Kingdom" which critic reviled because of the extreme shakiness.

What I noted as far as PQ was a softer look not foreign to some of the NBC/Universal stuff. On fast pans there was some "spotty looking" quantization almost like 8mm film with some spots on it. A few pans had some macro-blocking. Over all though I prefer watching the HD version over the blurry lined SD I was watching in previous weeks. My bigger bitch is the cheapo use of stretched SD for movies and shows on the other new channels even on films I know have HD transfers.

If Comcast wants to 3-pack maybe the studios will provide some streams that are set up for that rather than recompressed streams. I realized they are playing a hard balancing act between satisfying their growing HD audience and not alienating the existing SD audiences (who can be very cranky too).

As an aside even the BluRay release of "Before the Devil Knows You're Dead" shot with the Panavision Genesis (made by Sony) and which Sidney Lumet raves about in the extras has jutter especially at the shopping center scene. My bet is the cinematographer was still figuring out the camera and what panning rate would work (even 35mm film is subject to jutter). There's also the funny Sony ad where the Genesis falls off a mountain and bursts in to parts which turn into the line of Sony consumer products suggesting that technology is making its way into them but I'm not sure their HD cams have that kind of sensor in them yet though it would be neat even if it were a reduced size.

hiker

05-03-08, 03:24 PM

It would be only SD. Not sure if any one actually managed to get this. I will try.I managed to convince the people at my local Comcast office by using that FAQ to provide a STB for VOD but since I wanted an HD one (DCT-6200) I pay $7/mo.

walk

05-03-08, 04:24 PM

Over all though I prefer watching the HD version over the blurry lined SD I was watching in previous weeks. My bigger bitch is the cheapo use of stretched SD for movies and shows on the other new channels even on films I know have HD transfers.I agree totally with this. BSG is better in HD overall... everything is... but they sure aren't giving us "full" picture quality like they used to... and the reason is... they are stealing bandwidth away in order to add NEW HD channels that aren't even IN FREEKIN HD half the time! :mad:

If Comcast wants to 3-pack maybe the studios will provide some streams that are set up for that rather than recompressed streamsSure, but Comcast could also be smarter about the channels they add and/or how they "pack" them, especially if you consider they don't seem to be near the system's capacity yet... or when they waste a whole channel for something like 720 (90% of the time a spinning logo...). I mean can't they turn it off and use the b/w for a different channel when there's no sports on??

Then again, the studios/networks could just get off their duffs and put more real-HD programming on their HD channel too.

Jonathan Z

05-03-08, 11:58 PM

It seems like there should be a web page for this or something but my searches are not turning anything up.

Can someone point me to where I can find Comcast QAM lineups for San Mateo, CA?

Since I don't subscribe to Digital or HD Service Comcast refuses to tell me of the new locations for some stations that have moved.

If anyone knows, I'm trying to find the new location of KPIX (channel 5) HD.

Thanks in advance!

sfhub

05-04-08, 09:50 AM

when they waste a whole channel for something like 720 (90% of the time a spinning logo...). I mean can't they turn it off and use the b/w for a different channel when there's no sports on??
If they 3-pak 720 we can really see how efficient the 2nd pass encoder is (90% of the tiem) :)

Unfortunately that won't happen since it isn't a national channel so it doesn't come from Denver HITS where the encoding equipment resides.

raghu1111

05-04-08, 12:39 PM

I managed to convince the people at my local Comcast office by using that FAQ to provide a STB for VOD but since I wanted an HD one (DCT-6200) I pay $7/mo.

Thats good news. Does the 6.99 discount show up as any particular item on the bill?

juancmjr

05-04-08, 01:55 PM

If anyone knows, I'm trying to find the new location of KPIX (channel 5) HD.

Thanks in advance!

I get my CBS HD on 128-1. Hope that helps.

Tom Koegel

05-04-08, 02:38 PM

Is anyone not receiving a signal from MTV-HD, in Marin or elsewhere in the Bay Area? I haven't got a signal for the last several days. My Cablecard-equipped HDTV seems to report that there is no signal for MTV-HD. The set cycles among three types of modulation (QAM64, QAM256, and 8VSB) and it shows an in-band SNR of zero.

Just for laughs, I again tried the online Comcast chat support. Again, complete incompetence. The CSRs seem completely oblivious to what a Cablecard even is, and always want to "send a signal" to re-set the box. They have no way of checking any local based problems (wouldn't it be worth Comcast's nickel to set up a database to track ongoing problems?), and they spend Comcast's money on a service visit where none is needed or appropriate. While there is some greater chance that a service visit would turn up a problem in some local distribution point here, than in solving the three-pak problem, it seems like a wholly inefficient way of dealing with what is likely a local problem in the distribution network.

I'm sure that the satellite and FIOS providers have their own customer service problems, but Comcast is so dumb. The cable system has so many advantages to its competitors, most notably the lack of need for a box in each TV location. But they are going to lose their advantage by their continuing managerial incompetence.

Here's the chat transcript. What it fails to convey is that the transcript was compiled over the better part of an hour, while the CSR dealt with other customers, no doubt:

Live Chat
Status: Analyst Jasmin.29274 is here and your issue status is: working

Problem: MTV-HD no signal End Session analyst Jasmin.29274 has entered room

user Tom_ has entered room

Tom(Sun May 4 13:48:59 PDT 2008)>MTV-HD no signal

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:49:01 PDT 2008)>Hello Tom_, Thank you for contacting Comcast Live Chat Support. My name is Jasmin.29274. Please give me one moment to review your information.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:49:09 PDT 2008)>I would be more than happy to assist you. Please give me one moment while I review your information.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:50:15 PDT 2008)>Tom, I can help you with that.

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:51:03 PDT 2008)>OK, great

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:51:20 PDT 2008)>I understand that your MTV channel has no signal.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:51:25 PDT 2008)> Is that correct?

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:51:40 PDT 2008)>Correct. The HD channel, at 743 in this area.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:51:47 PDT 2008)>For account identification can you please provide your account number?

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:52:52 PDT 2008)>Did you receive my last message?

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:53:17 PDT 2008)>One second, need to log in to retrieve that

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:53:29 PDT 2008)>XXXXXXXXXXXX

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:53:44 PDT 2008)>Thank you.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:54:03 PDT 2008)>I will be just one moment while I bring up the required information. Thank you for your patience.

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:54:11 PDT 2008)>no problem

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:54:22 PDT 2008)>Thank you.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:54:23 PDT 2008)>By the way, How are you doing today?

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:55:01 PDT 2008)>Well, thank you.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:55:19 PDT 2008)>You are welcome.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 13:59:01 PDT 2008)>Tom, I am still pulling up your account. Would you mind holding again?

Tom_(Sun May 4 10:59:15 PDT 2008)>no problem

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:01:45 PDT 2008)>Tom, Thank you for waiting. I pulled up your account now.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:01:49 PDT 2008)>Can you please provide the serial number from the bottom of the box?

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:03:07 PDT 2008)>I have three TVs, two boxes and a cable card. I don't think this is box related. No signal on this channel only on both HD tvs.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:07:32 PDT 2008)>Tom, the channels that are showing on your tv are coming from the box thus the signal.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:07:46 PDT 2008)>Let me send you a signal.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:08:01 PDT 2008)>Please make sure that your cable box is on.

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:08:27 PDT 2008)>All cable boxes are on, and the CableCard TV is on also.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:08:47 PDT 2008)>That is great. One moment please.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:12:04 PDT 2008)>I have sent a signal to your digital box. Can you please check to see if this has resolved your issue?

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:12:21 PDT 2008)>Will check on both HDTVs. One second.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:12:34 PDT 2008)>Okay. I will wait.

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:14:39 PDT 2008)>No. Both TVs still are not getting a signal from 743, MTV-HD. The CableCard equipped TV diagnostics tell me that the card is searching for a signal and not finding anything.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:18:37 PDT 2008)>tom, What I can suggest now is to schedule you for a trouble call.

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:19:30 PDT 2008)>I appreciate your help. But this is a bad week for me to be around the house for a call. Is there any chance this is a regional problem?

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:23:17 PDT 2008)>Tom, if you do not want to send a technician, please do the powercycle instead.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:23:29 PDT 2008)>You are going to need to reset the digital box. You will need to unplug the digital box from the power for 30 seconds and then plug the digital box back in. It can take up to 30 minutes for the box to reset.

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:24:36 PDT 2008)>I don't know how to explain this any better. This cannot be box related. I have a cablecard TV that does not use a box, and it is not receiving a signal either. Do you know what a Cablecard is?

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:26:50 PDT 2008)>Tom, the best solution to your problem is to book a technician.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:27:18 PDT 2008)>No need to worry because you don't need to be present during the troublecall.

Jasmin.29274(Sun May 4 14:27:56 PDT 2008)>Please be sure that there is someone in your house who is 18 years old and above on the installation date. Also our technician will call 30 minutes before the installation.

Tom_(Sun May 4 11:28:33 PDT 2008)>No, thank you. I appreciate your attempt to help, but I'll just wait until the problem is fixed in the neighborhood.

hiker

05-04-08, 03:12 PM

Thats good news. Does the 6.99 discount show up as any particular item on the bill?The charge for the additional outlet fee does not show up at all on the bill. Without me showing a printout of that FAQ at my local office, I would have not gotten the fee waived because they knew nothing of the policy.

lebhead

05-04-08, 03:22 PM

sfhub

05-04-08, 07:10 PM

yewyew

05-05-08, 02:52 AM

Does anybody else in Cupertino have problems receiving TNT-HD and ESPN2 HD? I have 2 Motorola DCH3416 HD DVRs and all other HD channels come in fine. Only TNT-HD and ESPN2 HD show as not available on both ("One Moment Please. This channel should be available shortly"). My guess is the 2 stations come down in the same channel. Does it sound like a weak signal issue?
I had the same problem before. Someone posted in this forum saying that he resolved this by fixing some loose cable connections. So I started look for one but couldn't find any. In the end I fixed it by removing the 3-way splitter that I had and hooked up the cable directly into my Tivo.

JetPilot

05-05-08, 12:16 PM

sfhub, Brian Conrad, Guys.

Back in Nov07 I decided to add Digital Classic to my Limited Basic. I went to the Cupertino store on Imperial and signed up. I had to pay $17 to have a tech come to my house and install a CableCard in my MITS DLP HDTV. Now they just hand you the card. I am NOT paying for Expanded Basic.

At that time the Channel Guide dated Nov 23, 2007 included HD 720 to 754 as part of Digital Classic. Classic included many, not all 107 to 586. I also get all the Digital Starter [149], Limited Basic - Digital Channels [108 to199] and of course all the OTA [703 to 712] Strangely, I also get some I shouldn't [516 - 530, 48, 56, 62, 66 and a few more.]

I notice that the Channels 720 - 758 that previously had been listed as Digital Classic are now in the Starter Package, only 757 is DC.

On April 15 Comcast added 736, 747, 751, 752, 758, and maybe 769. I cannot receive any of these. My TV's on screen guide lists these channels but is blank, not even saying what they represent. The latest printed Channel Guide 02/08 does not mention any of these.

I called tech support and was told that I was not entitled to receive Digital Classic because I did not have Expanded and therefore I he could not help me further. In his opinion, my service was a mistake.

The Comcast Sales person at Fry's on Sat 5-3-08 told me it was impossible to subscribe to any digital package without first paying for Limited AND Expanded Basic.

Nothing that Comcast has on their web site or that I have that is printed clearly states what is included in what package tier, or what ever they call it.

If it were not for my internet also coming from Comcast I would leave.

JetPilot

zeldor

05-05-08, 12:55 PM

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Clu/ChannelLineup.ashx
should have a pulldown menu listing what each lineup package
comes with. you may need to enter a zip or location first.

but then my cable box is in my car waiting to be dropped
off at my local comcast office. now that the sharks lost
I have had enough of comcast's tv/HD BS.

stuck with their internet though as I am willing to put up
with some crap for speedy internet. But since I also need
static IPs I have to get comcast business cable.
less crap then residential. though no blast yet.

Nothing that Comcast has on their web site or that I have that is printed clearly states what is included in what package tier, or what ever they call it.

If it were not for my internet also coming from Comcast I would leave.

JetPilot

Brian Conrad

05-05-08, 01:02 PM

Jetpilot, what I finally sorted out was that Digital Classic actually only entitles you to the National Geographic channel in my area. So I dropped Digital Classic and just channel to the "Digital Starter Package" which includes Limited Basic + Expanded Basic and 5 digital channels. That was around $55 as compared to the around $32 Limited Basic + Digital Classic. That gives all the new HD channels except for Premiums and special sport and Nat Geo HD. This was what the press release said when the new channels released. If you are only interested in HD channels this is probably the way to go if you want to keep your monthly bill down. Thing was the CSR's didn't quite understand how things worked either or they would give me a quote by adding the Digital Classic on top of Expanded Basic.

What was also confusing was like you with my old package I was getting most of the HD channels added last fall. Apparently this was the way the "grandfathered" packages were working. Also "digital" apparently to many CSRs means SD digital referring to those SD digital tiers and not the HD programming.

sfhub

05-05-08, 01:05 PM

...
Thing was the CSR's didn't quite understand how things worked either or they would give me a quote by adding the Digital Classic on top of Expanded Basic.

What was also confusing was like you with my old package I was getting most of the HD channels added last fall. Apparently this was the way the "grandfathered" packages were working.
...
Lesson learned, trust AVS over CSR :)

BTW another trick I learned is you can ask them on the phone to add a particular package to your account temporarily to test out what channels you would get. Usually within a minute or two you can verify for yourself what you get while still on the phone with them. You can do this interactively until you get the package that has what you want. If it doesn't work out, they can switch you back to what you had before. I found it can be much quicker this way than arguing with them over what they think I should be receiving.

sfhub

05-05-08, 01:12 PM

sfhub, Brian Conrad, Guys.

Back in Nov07 I decided to add Digital Classic to my Limited Basic. I went to the Cupertino store on Imperial and signed up. I had to pay $17 to have a tech come to my house and install a CableCard in my MITS DLP HDTV. Now they just hand you the card. I am NOT paying for Expanded Basic.

At that time the Channel Guide dated Nov 23, 2007 included HD 720 to 754 as part of Digital Classic. Classic included many, not all 107 to 586. I also get all the Digital Starter [149], Limited Basic - Digital Channels [108 to199] and of course all the OTA [703 to 712] Strangely, I also get some I shouldn't [516 - 530, 48, 56, 62, 66 and a few more.]

I notice that the Channels 720 - 758 that previously had been listed as Digital Classic are now in the Starter Package, only 757 is DC.

On April 15 Comcast added 736, 747, 751, 752, 758, and maybe 769. I cannot receive any of these. My TV's on screen guide lists these channels but is blank, not even saying what they represent. The latest printed Channel Guide 02/08 does not mention any of these.

To make a long story short, you have an old package. You will not get the new channels. The new channels are part of the Digital Starter package.

From the perspective of HD channels, if you change to Digital Starter and drop Digital Classic, you will get all the new channels but will lose National Geographic HD. You also lose the Digital Classic SD channels 108-199; not sure if you care about those.

That's what I would do if I cared about the new channels, otherwise just leave what you have.

hiker

05-05-08, 01:28 PM

To add to the confusion, apparently there is a grandfather provision to those of us who had Digital Classic when Comcast was using that tier to authorize new HD channels. I have Limited Basic + Digital Classic and still get all non-premium HD channels except for NFL and those added 4/15. If I dropped Digital Classic I would probably lose all HD channels except for the locals and might not be able to add it back.

Since I have DirecTV, what I'd like to do is drop Digital Classic and keep just Limited Basic and the cablecards in my TiVo S3. I'm not sure Comcast will allow cablecards with just Limited Basic?

Brian Conrad

05-05-08, 02:48 PM

After the Expanded Basic filter was removed on my line I did a scan with HDHomerun and found there were indeed some QAM encrypted channels there on RF channel 66. Apparently the ones I wasn't getting. They also have some on RF 11 and 30.

Brian Conrad

05-05-08, 03:03 PM

Yes, at least they do up here, currently anyhow, it's what I have. And through either a billing error, or maybe just because I'm a nice guy, :D I've been getting Digital Classic(3-HD channels) for free since I had the S3 installed(Sept 06). I look at it as a "pain and suffering credit". I expect that will change when they finally get my system updated.
More likely because for some reason it is technically difficult for them to filter those channels so they just let it pass. Same as some one mentioned already about the Expanded Basic channels above 69 that I always got.

We'll all be watching to see how much a happy camper you are after the upgrade. :D

magnusansky

05-05-08, 06:06 PM

Over in Santa Clara (near Great America) I chased the pipe dream that my area might be an exception to the Limited + D Classic = No Scifi/Animal/Food, etc rule. The CSR buoyed my hopes when she agreed I should be getting it (instead of Not Authorized). Then the tech came over to figure out what was going on, called dispatch, and was told that I could not get any of them...even though Scifi is listed under the Digital Classic package (the others are all Digital Starter). Only way to get them? Get that Expanded+Starter package.

Those extra channels aren't worth $20/month to me just yet. (Especially now that I've read I would/could lose the channels between 100-199? How would I survive without Playmania on GSN...or whatever it is called these days. Heh)

sfhub

05-05-08, 06:28 PM

(Especially now that I've read I would/could lose the channels between 100-199? How would I survive without Playmania on GSN...or whatever it is called these days. Heh)
You probably misread. You don't "lose" 108-199. They are part of Digital Classic. If you pay for Digital Classic, you get digital classic.

I was suggesting to JetPilot if he only cares about HD, it is better to get Digital Starter and drop Digital Classic.

brimorga

05-05-08, 08:22 PM

Been with comcast for more years than I can count but the MLB EI package on DTV was just too much to ignore. Coupled with the decrease in HD quality, it was a no brainer.

Home and Away HD feeds is where it is at. I also just realized that I have to work late, so set the game up to record on the directv DVR via my computer from work. I'll still be with comcast as we transfer our DVR content over to DTV, and I also have the triple play, but if I find a better/cheaper solution for internet and phone in my area, I'll be completely gone. Don't miss comcast and the $14 per DVR fee yet....

bender2929

05-05-08, 10:24 PM

NeoChaos

05-06-08, 03:35 AM

MOJO shows some NBA TV game broadcasts a few times every week.

magnusansky

05-06-08, 04:57 AM

You probably misread. You don't "lose" 108-199. They are part of Digital Classic. If you pay for Digital Classic, you get digital classic.

I was suggesting to JetPilot if he only cares about HD, it is better to get Digital Starter and drop Digital Classic.

Whoops, thanks for the clarification.

curtis82

05-06-08, 06:53 AM

Quick question, was NBATV in some special sports tier this whole season? I've had access to that channel all season long, and today I get a "not authorized" message. I called up a CSR and she said I needed an extra $4.95/mo sports package and that I had just been lucky this whole time.??

This is the straw that broke the camel's back.. on the same call I asked to cancel and they "transferred" me - which basically ended up hanging up on me. Coupled with the HD quality issues I might as well bend over for satellite rather than comcast.

Yea NBA TV has been part of the $4.99 sports tier for the past few seasons actually. There was a free preview of the channel which ran from 4/19-5/4, but if you recieved it before then without that sports tier you may have one of those "grandfathered" packages (ex: Dig Gold, Dig Silver, Dig Bronze, etc). Sometimes having one of those discontinued packages on your acct can allow you to receive channels that you shouldn't be getting according to Comcast's current digital package structure. Or you just could have been lucky as well:) But most people who receive that channel definitely have that $4.99 charge on their acct.

curtis

ayewbf

05-06-08, 01:41 PM

So it's been noted that
(digital classic+standard cable)-digital starter=(55.99+14.95)-56.99=$13.95
where the difference in HD lineup right now is reportedly just NGCHD.
Anyone know if it's intentional that NGCHD costs this much, or is this just a temporary miss-pricing that is likely to change? I wouldn't want to pay a change fee to switch to digital starter and then find that some other 3-pack HD channels are not authorized. From others experiences, it sounds like the set of HD channels one gets with digital packages is a bit of a crap-shoot and is undocumented.

The channel lineup info on comcast.com doesn't shed any light on this as it fails to show the 700 channels when I select any of the above packages, additionally the 700 channel list is out of date when I select 'view all'.

sfhub

05-06-08, 02:14 PM

So it's been noted that
(digital classic+standard cable)-digital starter=(55.99+14.95)-56.99=$13.95
where the difference in HD lineup right now is reportedly just NGCHD.

What you are paying for with Digital Classic is the 108-199 SD channels. You also get NGCHD.

What Comcast is trying to do is align the HD channels with the SD versions so if you get ESPN-SD, you get ESPN-HD. This has always been their policy but it went awry with Digital Classic which included HD channels that didn't correspond to the SD channels. In effect you could get the HD versions of channels in expanded basic w/o paying for expanded basic.

Comcast packages don't always follow this policy 100% so there could be some variations, especially with the different providers that have been purchased over time and the slightly different lineups that have existed in the past.

You are right though, if all you care about is HD right now, Digital Starter is much better than Digital Classic. The recent change mostly affects those who purchased Limited Basic + Digital Classic. Most other folks wouldn't be seeing any change because they had a package that included expanded basic already.

However I would expect if you started seeing lots of HD channels that didn't have SD versions on expanded basic, those would start showing up in Digital Classic (or higher)

fender4645

05-06-08, 11:32 PM

An interesting (short) article on the advantage Comcast has w/ DOCSIS over Verizon's FiOS in terms of implementation cost.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13810014#post13810014

UCSB

05-07-08, 01:31 AM

Are any of the ports (USB, eSATA, 1394) enabled on the Motorola DCH3416? If so, what do they support?

Mikef5

05-07-08, 02:38 AM

Still on my hiatus from the group but still wanted you all to know that Comcast is still here and wants you to know that there are more channels coming this month.. ;)

Here's the email message.....

New Channels on May 21.....

Disney HD launches on the Digital Starter HD tier on channel 765 in Bay Area upgraded systems

ABC Family HD launches on the Digital Starter HD tier on channel 764 in Bay Area upgraded systems

Discovery Science HD launches on the Digital Classic HD tier on channel 756 in Bay Area upgraded systems

Laters,
Mikef5

raghu1111

05-07-08, 10:31 AM

Hi Mike,
good to see you posting. thanks for the good news.

zeldor

05-07-08, 12:04 PM

the firewire is outputting the tv signal, SD/HD/movies/etc/
the other ports I dont know about as I have never tried attaching
a disk to usb or esata.

Are any of the ports (USB, eSATA, 1394) enabled on the Motorola DCH3416? If so, what do they support?

rsra13

05-07-08, 01:31 PM

Travel Channel HD please!

mds54

05-07-08, 01:54 PM

Thanks Mikef5!

Kinda sad how just a few months ago any new HD channels announcement was totally exciting! Now, I almost wish they'd just stop where they are so the PQ does not continue to degrade.

pixelation

05-07-08, 05:17 PM

Does anyone know where did KTSF digital went? My Samsung TV caught it in the last rescan at 114-8 (QAM). But it is no longer there.

I am also looking for Discovery Planet SD's actual phyiscal QAM channel.

walk

05-07-08, 05:34 PM

1394 is active, the rest are not.
it's one-way only though, it does not support control.

fender4645

05-07-08, 05:51 PM

1394 is active, the rest are not.
it's one-way only though, it does not support control.

Actually, I do remember a while back there was a hack for Windows MCE that allowed you to use the 1394 connection to change channels (it involved installing a custom driver in your MCE box). This was a while ago though -- I think it was originally meant work with the 64xx boxes and I'm not sure if support continued for the newer Moto boxes.

rfr

05-07-08, 05:56 PM

It doesn't matter though -- there's a bug that causes the box's fast forward/reverse to break when the 1394 port is in use. It's essentially useless.

jwpottberg

05-07-08, 09:29 PM

Does anyone know where did KTSF digital went? My Samsung TV caught it in the last rescan at 114-8 (QAM). But it is no longer there.

I noticed that all the 114.x channels are missing lately. There was about 10 channels in there, SD versions of many of the locals. I know they are gone and not just encrypted because the signal strength is now zero. I was wondering if they moved all of them to a new slot :confused:

zeldor

05-07-08, 11:52 PM

mythtv can change the channel on my unit just fine through the firewire
port.

Actually, I do remember a while back there was a hack for Windows MCE that allowed you to use the 1394 connection to change channels (it involved installing a custom driver in your MCE box). This was a while ago though -- I think it was originally meant work with the 64xx boxes and I'm not sure if support continued for the newer Moto boxes.

cperalt1

05-08-08, 10:13 AM

I do all my archiving off my DCT 3416 live and DVR through the firewire port utilizing a G4 Mac Tower running iRecord and the Firewire SDK DVHS application. Standard rules applie, only 5c copy always will work as the computer is not 5c compliant. This is true for live media and for DVR recorded media. Control is done through iRecord or through another application in the Firewire SDK as well as through the firewire interface of my Mits DLP utilizing the computer as a fancy VCR using the GEMS TV Guide to schedule recordings. There is a bug in the DCT 3416's firmware that if I turn off the TV and the DVR is not currently recording a program, the DCT 3416 interprets that signal as a turn off signal and will turn itself off but in any case the iRecord software also has the ability to turn the box on in order to record. Hope this is as clear as mud. :)

avnstf

05-08-08, 04:01 PM

Hope this is as clear as mud. :)

...it is, more or less...

rxp19

05-08-08, 06:52 PM

...it is, more or less...

Maybe this will dumb it down. Recording shows to your to Mac via firewire:

a. download FireWire SDK for Mac OS X (http://developer.apple.com/sdk/)

1. Connect the the DVR and the Mac with the firewire cable.

2. Open the AVCVideoCap application. (it is located in the developer tools folder /Developer/FireWireSDK22/Applications/AVCVideoCap.app)

3. If all is good with the world you should see your DVR listed in the device window, select it. In no device is shown, there is a problem.

4. Turn your DVR to the channel that you want to record (you can also do this through the computer in the next step).

5. Note the EMI status. This is what will tell you if the video is copy protected or not. Copy Freely means that you can record it no problem. Copy Once, means that you can copy it, but you will not be able to view it.

6. Select the capture from device button, you get a dialog box with some more options. They are pretty much self explanatory, so fill them out and start recording.

Additional info on playing the recorded files on a Mac:

The file that you will record is a MPEG-2 transport stream. So you will have a file that will end in .m2t. Since these are not really common file type they can be a bit complicated to play. The best app to use to view these files is the VLC media Player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/). This app should play these files without any issues.

If you want to shrink the file size of the recorded video:

For more advanced use, and conversion I recommend two more programs. The first is MPEG streamclip (http://www.squared5.com/), a great quicktime based MPEG app. And since you will be working with MPEG-2 you will need to buy the MPEG-2 playback component (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/) for QuickTime. You may want to try things out before you shell out 20 bucks, but it does make life easier.

...clear as concrete?

JasonQG

05-08-08, 10:40 PM

...clear as concrete?

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/08/clear-concrete.html

jwpottberg

05-09-08, 03:35 AM

I noticed that all the 114.x channels are missing lately. There was about 10 channels in there, SD versions of many of the locals. I know they are gone and not just encrypted because the signal strength is now zero. I was wondering if they moved all of them to a new slot :confused:

I did a rescan and in my area (Sunnyvale 94087 near Fremont/Mary) they have moved all these to 73.x

jwpottberg

05-09-08, 03:38 AM

Does anyone know where did KTSF digital went? My Samsung TV caught it in the last rescan at 114-8 (QAM). But it is no longer there.

In case you are still looking for this, try 73.8. (In my area they have moved all the 114.x to 73.x)

testdummy

05-09-08, 08:00 PM

raghu1111

05-09-08, 09:02 PM

I am setting new Tivo HD. I got an M-Card from local comcast office. I thought I need to give "Host ID" and "Data ID" etc to Comcast to activate it. But when I called them CSR says he does not need them. They have S/N for the M-Card and apparently thats enough. Is that right?

So when I check "Test Channels" on Tivo, it spends a lot of time in "Acquiring Channel Information" screen.

I haven't called up Tivo to activate this Tivo yet, thinking I will call up once it is set up.

thanks.

raghu1111

05-09-08, 11:43 PM

Regd setting up Tivo HD: Q #10 in Tivo CableCARD FAQ says Comcast needs Host ID and Data value. Anyone knows magic word to say to CSR so that they enter it?

Edit : FAQ is at http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=363797

sfhub

05-09-08, 11:54 PM

Just keep calling back telling them that the CableCARD doesn't work and tell them they might have entered the wrong id's last time. Eventually you'll get someone who will take the IDs down.

BTW the CSR is blowing smoke. The host ID comes from the TiVo side and the Data ID is generated during install. There is no way they can have those ahead of time based on the CableCARD serial #.

Even if you don't get the IDs entered (or entered correct), as long as the CableCARD is activated (and authorized) you should be able to watch/record any channel that is CCI=0x00, both encrypted and not encrypted. The time when pairing is needed to be correct is for CCI=non-zero content, usually premiums, but sometimes some other channels also.

amdspitfire

05-10-08, 12:00 AM

I'm in the south bay, Los Gatos with basic cable. All of my digital channels that I had (2.1, 5.1, etc.) are all gone for 2 days. Any idea what happened?

raghu1111

05-10-08, 12:04 AM

Thanks sfhub, I will try calling again.

Even if you don't get the IDs entered (or entered correct), as long as the CableCARD is activated (and authorized) you should be able to watch/record any channel that is CCI=0x00, both encrypted and not encrypted. The time when pairing is needed to be correct is for CCI=non-zero content, usually premiums, but sometimes some other channels also.

I'm not seeing any channels. Tivo goes in to "Acquiring channel information.." screen finally fails after 15-30mins.

sfhub

05-10-08, 12:11 AM

I'm not seeing any channels. Tivo goes in to "Acquiring channel information.." screen finally fails after 15-30mins.
That doesn't sound like a pairing problem. You definitely have the pairing problem because they didn't take down the IDs, but you have some other problem even more serious than pairing. Probably the cards aren't activated.

old64mb

05-10-08, 03:12 AM

Probably the cards aren't activated.

+1. I had almost the same issue when a card in my second S3 was nominally entered into their system but it wasn't on the top 5 devices, and then after an hour the tech finally realized without the second outlet fee it didn't matter if it had been. About the only Comcast call ever I've been happy with; took an hour to figure it out, but she actually knew the technology and the issues.

Hence why I'd get a tech out simply to walkietalkie in to make sure it's entered, since they have the right people to talk with.

Edit: oh, and on the 1394 output - not sure about the new boxes, but years back on my 6412 the order of commands and device powerings on/off and such made all the difference in controlling everything perfectly fine or crashing every device in the chain (DVHS, GX6U, 6412). Took me months to figure it out.

And was I the only one to notice majorly decreased PQ for BSG (HD) tonight? Not talking about the switching issue; this was as bad as the first episode for macroblocking et al.

Dragunov1

05-10-08, 03:15 AM

No you were not, don't know if we can even call it HD at what it was :\

raghu1111

05-10-08, 10:22 AM

Thanks Guys.

+1. I had almost the same issue when a card in my second S3 was nominally entered into their system but it wasn't on the top 5 devices, and then after an hour the tech finally realized without the second outlet fee it didn't matter if it had been. [...]

Just to make sure I understand, what you are saying is that though the card was entered into your account, they hadn't added additional outlet fee for the card. Only after they entered this fee, the card was activated? Two CSRs told "everything looks good on our side" last night (they still haven't entered Host ID and Data, of course).

sfhub

05-10-08, 10:59 AM

Is this the only device on your account? If it is the 2nd device onward, then from my past experience there has to be some charge associated with the card or the system won't let the card be activated, even if it is listed on your account. I remember a while back a friend of mine argued that he shouldn't be charged the additional outlet fee and the CSR agreed. They took the charge off and though the card was still on the account, it stopped working. Add the charge back and it started working.

rxp19

05-10-08, 11:22 AM

Anyone in Hayward got upgraded recently? If so, where are you located? They left a door hanger about a month and a half ago and I did see them work on the lines. Yet still no upgrade. Satellite is starting to look real tempting...

Hayward Hills (around Fairview Ave and China Ct) got upgraded on January 8.

The technician I talked to that was doing the upgrade in front of my house said we were lucky, because they plan to start at the top of the hills and work there way down.

Calling a comcast rep for a time frame of when the upgrade in your area will happen might help... psych! CSR's suck and always give different information. But it doesn't hurt to try.

MKANET

05-10-08, 12:26 PM

What happened to QAM ABC?

This morning I went to watch the news.. nothing. Did I miss something?

testdummy

05-10-08, 12:34 PM

sfhub

05-10-08, 01:37 PM

What happened to QAM ABC?

This morning I went to watch the news.. nothing. Did I miss something?
Probably local issue. ABC HD is ok for me. Same location.

old64mb

05-10-08, 02:39 PM

Just to make sure I understand, what you are saying is that though the card was entered into your account, they hadn't added additional outlet fee for the card

Yep, sfhub's friend's story was more or less what I went through. She read back the pairing data for each of the 4 cards and we confirmed that, and after trying numerous other solutions like multiple reboots and rehits as well as stripping off the various packages I was on - since it appeared the guy who upgraded me past Digital Starter so I could get the HD tier had done so improperly - she realized the lack of an additional outlet fee was where the problem was. Added the fee, whoosh, everything worked. Strange with how clunky their software is that it works so efficiently at ensuring they get every dime....

The other issue I was referring to is that if you have multiple devices (cable modem, Comcast boxes, Tivos, not sure about digital phone but probably not) I vaguely remember that the CableCards have to be in the first 5 devices on their internal list or the system won't recognize them.

It's really a matter of getting someone on the other end who knows the protocol, since most have no clue and it appears the culture (if not outright training) is to offer as little help as possible to Tivo owners. Funny, since with the stupidity over the compression about the only thing that's keeping me as a Comcast HD customer is that I have $1800 or so invested in my upgraded S3s.

I'd say start with getting someone competent on the phone to make sure the pairing data is right, reboot, and then go from there for the more exotic solutions.

curtis82

05-10-08, 03:11 PM

Hayward Hills (around Fairview Ave and China Ct) got upgraded on January 8.

The technician I talked to that was doing the upgrade in front of my house said we were lucky, because they plan to start at the top of the hills and work there way down.

Calling a comcast rep for a time frame of when the upgrade in your area will happen might help... psych! CSR's suck and always give different information. But it doesn't hurt to try.

The CSR's don't "suck", they just aren't given the right information by Comcast to properly inform their customers. With the upgrades for example, The CSR are sent msgs every few days with a list of nodes that are are going to be upgraded in the upcoming weeks. However if you as a customer call in and want to know when you're neighborhood is being upgraded and your node insn't included among the ones that are being launched over the next few weeks, then it's a crapshoot. Comcast doesn't provide the CSR's with a exact schedule as to what date every node will be upgraded. ( with the exception of Santa Rosa) That's the reason why you'll get different answers from various reps when you call in, They have to pretty much guess. Of course if a CSR just said "I'm sorry, sir. I'm not 100 % sure but we'll be upgrading your area soon", that would be totally unacceptable to most customers. So they do their best by just estimating when it would be done. Not saying this the right way of doing buisness, but that's what's going on. My best friend works as a CSR there and he fills me in from time to time as to what goes on.

Curtis

raghu1111

05-10-08, 06:46 PM

My Tivo HD saga continues.. but there is some progress.

Is this the only device on your account? Yes. I still have Comcast HD receiver. I was planning to return it after Tivo is set up.

I called again (3rd time in total) to mainly make sure if there is proper charge. This time, before I described any problem, CSR said "We need to pair the card. give me Host ID and Data value..." what a relief. I thanked him and tried the guided set up again after the call. Now Tivo was able to receive the channel information. But it is able to show only unencrypted channels (local HD, CNN, etc). I called Comcast again, this time I was not lucky.. CSR kept convincing me that I need 2nd CableCARD for other channels to work. Anything I can try now? The CableCARD info on Tivo shows the card is validated.

"Conditional Access" screen looks like this:
Unit Address: 000-....
Encryption: DES
Con:Yes EBCP:Yes Val:V 0x01

MTCMD:D Prg:00001 ECM:0x431
LTSID:003 TSIndex:0
SvcID:0x034930 Svc:0 Enc:ENC
CP:Enabled CA Reply:0x00 N
Auth:MP CCI:0x00 ? Epoch:0x00

Component PIDS in Hex:
0800 0801

Edit: "Auth:MP" might be the culprit. Apparently it should say "S" (subscribed). http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376170 .

Dospac

05-11-08, 01:12 AM

What happened to MHD? Anyone else getting the "channel available shortly" message for the last few days?

sfhub

05-11-08, 03:02 AM

I called again (3rd time in total) to mainly make sure if there is proper charge. This time, before I described any problem, CSR said "We need to pair the card. give me Host ID and Data value..." what a relief.
So are you being charged for the CableCARD? It wasn't clear if you went straight to pairing or had time to inquire about your charges.

What you have now is an activated card without authorization to receive encrypted channels. You can get the HD locals because they don't require authorization (as they aren't encrypted)

Try to make sure they have a $6.99 additional outlet fee associated with your CableCARD. That can go away once you return your STB.

After you get proper authorization, your CableCARD should be able to decrypt all the channels you are supposed to receive.

When you switch to a channel which has CCI=non-zero, in addition to decrypting the stream, the CableCARD must then *re*encrypt the stream prior to handing it back to TiVo. This is where the pairing is critical because the re-encryption must be done with host specific keys.

sfhub

05-11-08, 03:06 AM

What happened to MHD? Anyone else getting the "channel available shortly" message for the last few days?
I still get MHD in my area, but something strange is happening because they switched it from QAM256 to QAM64. I'm using TiVo S3 so it is possible TiVo is smart enough to look for QAM64 automatically if it can't find the signal. I did notice a banner flash briefly that it couldn't locate the channel (don't remember the exact wording)

raghu1111

05-11-08, 10:19 AM

So are you being charged for the CableCARD? It wasn't clear if you went straight to pairing or had time to inquire about your charges.

I didn't ask in the call where CSR paired the card. Later Satureday I chatted online with billing question(I am tired of phone calls already :) ) CSR said there was no charge. He kept insisting that I shouldn't be charged. So asked him to add an "additional outlet fee" just to test (wow! Comcast is able to make customers plead them to add charges!). Also asked him to "associate this charge with the new card" (not sure if that makes sense). The charge is still there.. still getting only unencrypted.

Comcast technitian is visiting Monday. I am planning to still keep the DCH 6200 to show him what channel I should be getting. I am thinking of trying to remove the temporary charge before that.. so that he figures out real problem.

sfhub

05-11-08, 01:04 PM

Comcast technitian is visiting Monday. I am planning to still keep the DCH 6200 to show him what channel I should be getting. I am thinking of trying to remove the temporary charge before that.. so that he figures out real problem.
Another thing I can suggest is you ask them to delete the CableCARD from your account, save the changes, then enter it in just like a brand new CableCARD. Sometimes it seems if they mess up too many times the different systems can get out of sync and starting from scratch fixes that. I don't know if that is a phsychological or physical property of their system. Only do this with a rep that sounds like they know what they are doing. Same procedure, call back until you find someone that knows.

It is worth a shot to drop the STB from your account, but I would only try that after the tech comes and goes so, as you suggested, you can show them what you are supposed to receive.

gaderson

05-11-08, 02:55 PM

I still get MHD in my area, but something strange is happening because they switched it from QAM256 to QAM64. I'm using TiVo S3 so it is possible TiVo is smart enough to look for QAM64 automatically if it can't find the signal. I did notice a banner flash briefly that it couldn't locate the channel (don't remember the exact wording)

Getting the same thing with my TiVoHD, but, thought it was a signal problem, as I get the same with a few other channels in the HD realm.

old64mb

05-11-08, 03:47 PM

Anything I can try now?

sfhub is as usual way ahead of me in terms of both understanding and giving technical advice, so I'll give one more thing you can try since you haven't mentioned it and it's easy: do a hard (unplug) reset on the HD. That actually resolved a decryption issue I had once. Don't ask me to explain why. :)

ZildjianKX

05-12-08, 07:35 PM

walk

05-12-08, 07:42 PM

the first segment wasn't in HD for some reason but the rest was. apparently this was a Sci-Fi network problem as I've heard the same from other people around the country...

tell them you will no longer BE an existing customer unless they do something for you, that usually works...

Jopowee

05-12-08, 08:02 PM

Hey all,

I recently got my first HDTV (a Samsung LN40A550 that I'm loving), and upgraded to Comcast HD. Like most, I don't really like Comcast, but unless I switch to Satellite (not an option with Tivo), it's our only option.

I'm in one of the non-rebuilt areas of the North Bay, so we don't get as many HD channels yet as some, but we do get all the major networks, plus ESPN and CSN Bay Area, so it basically fits the bill for our TV watching purposes.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi, and add myself to the group here. I'm sure I'll be popping in every once in a while from here on out.

raghu1111

05-12-08, 08:09 PM

Finally resolved. Thank you very much, sfhub and 64mb. When I started this topic last Friday I was hoping sfhub gets to check the forum in the weekend :).

When the tech came in, he called someone and looked like the woman on the phone already knew my acount info and the context.

Apparently what she did was to add an additional outlet code (AO code), not just a charge. My attempt to add an additional outlet was not useful since the right code was not added.

Just returning DCH box might have done the trick too.

Now I hope returning the DCH box goes a little better. I am planning to return it in couple of days.

btw, after this, Tivo seems to have forgotten my setting for channels.. I had 'unticked' a lot of channels I don't receive. How you do you guys manage this?

[...]
It is worth a shot to drop the STB from your account, but I would only try that after the tech comes and goes so, as you suggested, you can show them what you are supposed to receive.

fender4645

05-12-08, 08:15 PM

Has anyone had any luck with getting a promotion for either cable or internet while being a pre-existing customer?

I'm currently paying $107/month for internet and digital classic, kind of painful.

I just called Comcast and they said they almost never run promos for existing customers... not sure if I believe that.

Also, did anyone notice that BSG wasn't in HD on Sci-Fi HD last Friday?

It is VERY easy to get promotional discounts from Comcast. Over the past 5 years, I've had either an Internet or cable promotion on my bill (mostly both). For Internet, just call them and say you're considering switching to DSL...they should offer you 6 months at $19.95 (just do the same thing in 6 months). For cable, it's usually not as easy...but definitely possible. Just call and say D* is offering some pretty good deals and you're considering switching. They should offer you at least something.

fender4645

05-12-08, 08:15 PM

avnstf

05-12-08, 08:18 PM

Also, did anyone notice that BSG wasn't in HD on Sci-Fi HD last Friday?

I noticed that it was in high-def at 7, but not at 9, here in Berkeley

jlee301

05-12-08, 08:42 PM

I noticed that it was in high-def at 7, but not at 9, here in Berkeley

The one that aired at 7, the first few mins were not in HD, but the show aired correctly after the first commercial break. The channel was still SciFi HD based off the logo on the bottom right, so I assume it was an error on the actual SciFi feed coming in.

davisdog

05-12-08, 10:11 PM

It is VERY easy to get promotional discounts from Comcast. Over the past 5 years, I've had either an Internet or cable promotion on my bill (mostly both). For Internet, just call them and say you're considering switching to DSL...they should offer you 6 months at $19.95 (just do the same thing in 6 months). For cable, it's usually not as easy...but definitely possible. Just call and say D* is offering some pretty good deals and you're considering switching. They should offer you at least something.

or tell them your looking at switching to E* because they added 22 HD Channels today (including CSNBA-HD, finally) and MPEG4 looks alot better than COMpressionCAST (and so does their DVR ;)

sfhub

05-12-08, 11:27 PM

Apparently what she did was to add an additional outlet code (AO code), not just a charge. My attempt to add an additional outlet was not useful since the right code was not added.

I didn't know their system allowed them to add the charge w/o the code. Learn something new every day. I'm glad you got it working.

zeldor

05-13-08, 12:48 AM

E*'s web page has 39 HD channels listed, Im assuming this includes
the new ones as of today. A couple old movie channels in HD
and the could be cool smithsonian channel are what they are lacking
compared to DirecTV now.
still no KRON/KQED/KCSM locals in HD either though DTV doesnt
do KQED/KCSM either.
though both may add KCSM if they have the spot bandwidth.

or tell them your looking at switching to E* because they added 22 HD Channels today (including CSNBA-HD, finally) and MPEG4 looks alot better than COMpressionCAST (and so does their DVR ;)

keenan

05-13-08, 01:39 AM

fender4645

05-13-08, 03:03 AM

BTW, if you only watch "House" one time this season do not miss tonight's episode. It and the followup next week will easily qualify as some of the best TV all season.

Holy cow! I usually don't get around to watching House for a few days after it's aired but I watched it tonight. Wow!! Great episode!

davisdog

05-13-08, 11:32 AM

E*'s web page has 39 HD channels listed, Im assuming this includes
the new ones as of today. A couple old movie channels in HD
and the could be cool smithsonian channel are what they are lacking
compared to DirecTV now.
still no KRON/KQED/KCSM locals in HD either though DTV doesnt
do KQED/KCSM either.
though both may add KCSM if they have the spot bandwidth.

I dont think it had been updated when you looked at it...Updated now, lists 51 channels including smithsonian etc...They actually dropped ~10 of the old Voom channels last night also..mixed emotions about.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index2.shtml

anyway, back to the comcast thread ;)

Derek87

05-13-08, 12:51 PM

so, i'm in Santa Clara 95054 and actually haven't been watching much TV for a variety of reasons (was on travel and really busy) and i settled in both this weekend and last night after a long day to surf and was surprised to find that i have _lost_ channels:

they have that lame "just a moment message" which i put with this weekend because i really didn't care, but yesterday, couldn't watch discovery hd and was more than miffed...

USAHD and DISCHD both gave me that message.

anyone else? i was too tired to go through the usual "dance" with the CSR since i know it would have been a 20 minute exercise of rebooting my box, etc and them saying i needed a service call or to swap my box again...

anyone else have the same problem. i'm guessing they are having, as they did a few months back, some issues of blocking the right frequencies, etc.

i'm pretty fed but and maybe it's time to just give up and go elsewhere or better yet, given how little i've missed TV, drop down to limited basic...
(my only reluctance to do the latter is fear that i may want to go back to my current plan and lose this "medium priced" (~39 buck/mo) possibility)

keenan

05-13-08, 12:55 PM

Holy cow! I usually don't get around to watching House for a few days after it's aired but I watched it tonight. Wow!! Great episode!

It'll no doubt become one of the all-time best House episodes, simply outstanding TV.

montyward

05-13-08, 01:23 PM

I know in the past I've read about the FOX signal signal doing weird things to people's recordings, but since I haven't seen it mentioned here I'm guessing it must be my system, the S3 or the external drive. Not sure what to make of it.

My dropouts occurred frequently on American Idol, but as soon as I was upgraded I haven't had a single dropout. So....you're gonna have to wait. It always seemed to happen during commercial breaks so I didn't even know I missed something until the show ended much earlier than usual.

keenan

05-13-08, 02:28 PM

My dropouts occurred frequently on American Idol, but as soon as I was upgraded I haven't had a single dropout. So....you're gonna have to wait. It always seemed to happen during commercial breaks so I didn't even know I missed something until the show ended much earlier than usual.

Exactly, I watched an episode where I did the same thing, and I recall the references to AI having the same sort of issues. I can't imagine it's related to the system upgrading, but if it fixed it for you maybe it will for me as well. Of course, I may be dead and buried by the time that happens...

That Don Guy

05-13-08, 03:16 PM

Okay, I have a weird problem that I thought was just an incidental anomaly, but it appears it's recurring at a regular rate.

While watching a recording made on KTVU - Bones- I lose about 5 mins of the recording, and it's happened the last 3 eps in a row. It happens when it returns from a commercial break. I'll get a split second of the opening scene, then the recording jumps ahead about 5 mins. The recordings made on the D* DVR come out fine, but those of course are from an OTA feed.

I know in the past I've read about the FOX signal signal doing weird things to people's recordings, but since I haven't seen it mentioned here I'm guessing it must be my system, the S3 or the external drive. Not sure what to make of it.

BTW, if you only watch "House" one time this season do not miss tonight's episode. It and the followup next week will easily qualify as some of the best TV all season.
I have noticed that, a lot of times, when KTVU comes back from a commercial, the signal starts out as SD for a second or so, then the screen abruptly goes dark, then the scene starts over again with the HD signal (as if the HD signal has a slight delay). However, I have not had any problems with the recording jumping ahead because of it.

(And I wonder how many people consider that House episode "the best ever" solely because of the scene in the bus with Cuddy.)

-- Don

keenan

05-13-08, 03:37 PM

I have noticed that, a lot of times, when KTVU comes back from a commercial, the signal starts out as SD for a second or so, then the screen abruptly goes dark, then the scene starts over again with the HD signal (as if the HD signal has a slight delay). However, I have not had any problems with the recording jumping ahead because of it.

(And I wonder how many people consider that House episode "the best ever" solely because of the scene in the bus with Cuddy.)

-- Don
I would hope they would look beyond that part, not that there was anything wrong with it. :p:D

montyward

05-13-08, 04:55 PM

Exactly, I watched an episode where I did the same thing, and I recall the references to AI having the same sort of issues. I can't imagine it's related to the system upgrading, but if it fixed it for you maybe it will for me as well. Of course, I may be dead and buried by the time that happens...

I remember bringing it up and it only seems to happen to those in areas that had yet to be upgraded. A guy in an un-upgraded area of Sunnyvale had the same loss of AI for the same amount of time. I wouldn't think the upgrade would matter either, but at least their is a correlation.

fender4645

05-13-08, 04:59 PM

keenan

05-13-08, 05:07 PM

Just a stab in the dark but could something like this happen if the bandwidth was maxed out (at lease in regards to the cable signal) and so it literally shuts down your connection for that period of time? It could explain why it only happens to the bandwidth-starved areas.

I suppose that's possible, I don't recall what other channels are on the same QAM as KTVU. I don't think the QAM is being stat-muxed though, I believe there is a set rate for each signal. I think it's something about the KTVU signal combined with something at the individual headend that causes it to "burp" at that particular transition. I know folks have had weird problems with FOX signals before, the signal is handled differently than other network, plus, I think it runs at a different audio bitrate than the other as well.

juancmjr

05-13-08, 06:18 PM

My DVR problem may apply here. It's the LG 3410, and whenever I try to record House, it will only record about 20 min, then not do anything else for the rest of the time. KTVU for me is on 128-2, while KPIX is 128-1, and then LATV, a Spanish language SD channel is on 128-3. On occasion, 128-2 and 3 will be the same, with the Spanish language channel dominating. If I change the channel from 128-2 to 128-3 and then back, Fox will show up again. My guess is that this effect is due to the 3 packing of channels by Comcast. The recording problem only occurs with Fox, not CBS or other channels. I'm in an upgraded area.

Donnie Vie

05-13-08, 07:27 PM

Has anyone had any luck with getting a promotion for either cable or internet while being a pre-existing customer?

I'm currently paying $107/month for internet and digital classic, kind of painful.

I just called Comcast and they said they almost never run promos for existing customers... not sure if I believe that.

Also, did anyone notice that BSG wasn't in HD on Sci-Fi HD last Friday?

In my expierience, I have been lucky and then very un-lucky when asking about promotions as an existing customer.
I truly believe that the luck depends on how capable the Comcast CSR is and how well that person does his/her job.

Comcast seems to "always" have promotions and most, if not all the promotions, are promos you have to inquire about, ask them to search for and hope to get lucky!

keenan

05-13-08, 07:29 PM

sfhub

05-13-08, 07:54 PM

My guess is that this effect is due to the 3 packing of channels by Comcast. The recording problem only occurs with Fox, not CBS or other channels. I'm in an upgraded area.
KTVU and KPIX are not being 3-packed.

The SD subchannel you are talking about is actually from KTVU. It is on the OTA feed also.

old64mb

05-13-08, 08:47 PM

btw, after this, Tivo seems to have forgotten my setting for channels.. I had 'unticked' a lot of channels I don't receive. How you do you guys manage this?

How odd on the code, but glad our instincts were dead on.

And nope, you gotta do all that manually. A pain, but you only have to once per guided setup.

Now if only there was a way to speed up my TTG transfers with some of the great stuff that's been OAR recently....

jeff lam

05-13-08, 09:09 PM

My HOA is cancelling my bulk billing arangement with Comcast... What is the cheapest package I can get and still get the basic local HD channels over the cable?

sfhub

05-13-08, 10:17 PM

limited basic.

JasonQG

05-13-08, 11:04 PM

Okay, I have a weird problem that I thought was just an incidental anomaly, but it appears it's recurring at a regular rate.

While watching a recording made on KTVU - Bones- I lose about 5 mins of the recording, and it's happened the last 3 eps in a row. It happens when it returns from a commercial break. I'll get a split second of the opening scene, then the recording jumps ahead about 5 mins. The recordings made on the D* DVR come out fine, but those of course are from an OTA feed.

I know in the past I've read about the FOX signal signal doing weird things to people's recordings, but since I haven't seen it mentioned here I'm guessing it must be my system, the S3 or the external drive. Not sure what to make of it.

I've had this happen twice in the last couple weeks, once on last week's Bones and once on the season finale of Family Guy. I think it happened once before too, but I can't remember what show it was. I haven't watched this week's Bones yet, so I don't know if it happened there.

I thought it was just my stupid Comcast DVR dying or something since this had never happened before, but probably not if you're getting the same thing with the tivo. Weird.

juancmjr

05-14-08, 12:17 AM

Does this happen on a regular basis?

4x so far, including last night and only with House. Luckily I got "the scene" from yesterday's episode. :D

JasonQG

05-14-08, 12:21 AM

Interestingly, House was fine for me last night.

keenan

05-14-08, 01:22 AM

I had it happen on an episode of House as well. I'm convinced that it's something with the transmission of the KTVU signal and the transition from the network feed to local insertion(something along those lines anyway) and the equipment with KTVU and/or Comcast. It's like it's losing sync, dropping the signal, and then finally syncs back up. Maybe it drops the PSIP info, or something.

What's odd is that the actual recording "stops" as well, there's not been any blank space that I can remember, it just jumps ahead ant he recording length is shortened to however much time was jumped. I had a few that were 45-55 minutes long when they should have been 60 mins.

Anyway, I'm "glad" to hear it's not just me, I was getting ready to start cursing at the S3/external drive.

keenan

05-14-08, 01:35 AM

The next time it happens, I'll save the "affected" section and send it to one of our MPEG video experts here and see if they can tell what's happening.

In fact, I do have Bones recorded with HDHR/SageTV, and it has the same jump ahead as the TiVo had so that confirms that it's not any of the equipment at my residence. It has to be the signal coming from Comcast.

Now, if one of you guys can tell me how to do it, I can clip the section and send it to you for analysis.

JasonQG

05-14-08, 02:01 AM

It's just one more way Santa Rosa's special.

john_o

05-14-08, 02:34 AM

And was I the only one to notice majorly decreased PQ for BSG (HD) tonight? Not talking about the switching issue; this was as bad as the first episode for macroblocking et al.

Lots of frame stutter too -- it's like it got stuck, then would jump ahead a couple of frames during a fast pan.

Comcast has had their chance. Time to start complaining to SciFi and telling them that Comcast is screwing up the quality of their programming:

feedback@scifi.com

Brian Conrad

05-14-08, 03:21 PM

Well for the locals I like my HDHomeRun since it records the transport stream to my Ubuntu Linux box and use my networked AVeL Linkplayer2 for playback. I also have a DVICO FusionHD card on one computer if I want to record 3 shows at once. :D I can't believe these DVRs are flaking out when there is a "splice." I have no problem with those using this setup. I also just read that NBC is beginning to throw in stuff that messes up Media Center. I'll have to test record an NBC show to see what happens but I doubt it'll cause a problem.

montyward

05-14-08, 04:48 PM

juancmjr,

I thought you were upgraded? That makes me wonder if I've just been lucky since the upgrade. It sounds like it is still happening.

juancmjr

05-14-08, 06:56 PM

juancmjr,

I thought you were upgraded?

I am in an upgraded area. Nevertheless I get glitches on HD channels as I did before the upgrade. My spider sense is sort of tingling, telling me to check out satellite...

clau

05-14-08, 08:09 PM

Blast in Sunnyvale

Anyone knows when Blast will be available in Sunnyvale?

Are there any areas in Sunnyvale still not upgraded?

montyward

05-14-08, 08:11 PM

I am in an upgraded area. Nevertheless I get glitches on HD channels as I did before the upgrade. My spider sense is sort of tingling, telling me to check out satellite...

As soon as the DirecTV tuner for Vista is available I'm gone. Though I must say I like the internet speeds compared to DSL Elite I had before.

douginsunnyvale

05-14-08, 10:00 PM

Blast in Sunnyvale

Anyone knows when Blast will be available in Sunnyvale?

Are there any areas in Sunnyvale still not upgraded?

We're still not upgraded in 94087 off Knickerbocker...last update from Comcast was that they'd be done by 5/16, then we lost everything except analog last Monday and when I called the CSR said they'd be done by the end of May...I'll believe it when I see it :(

old64mb

05-15-08, 12:04 AM

Anyone know why the Giants game tonight isn't on CSNHD? It's on CSN, just seems odd with nothing else on CSNHD - Sharks overreaction maybe?

Barovelli

05-15-08, 01:08 AM

We're still not upgraded in 94087 off Knickerbocker...last update from Comcast was that they'd be done by 5/16, then we lost everything except analog last Monday and when I called the CSR said they'd be done by the end of May...I'll believe it when I see it :(

Keep an eye open at all times . . . it's nearly done.

pappy97

05-15-08, 01:09 AM

Anyone know why the Giants game tonight isn't on CSNHD? It's on CSN, just seems odd with nothing else on CSNHD - Sharks overreaction maybe?

Not at all. If tonight's game is not in HD, it has nothing to do with planning for the Sharks.

With the Sharks as they advanced CSN-BA HD moved around things, now that the Sharks are done, there is no lasting effect on CSN-BA HD.

Unfortunately we are not at the point that every possible home game is in HD (although I wish it was).

old64mb

05-15-08, 03:46 AM

Unfortunately we are not at the point that every possible home game is in HD (although I wish it was).

Is that a production issue or just being unable to hire enough camera guys to work the angles for all the show?

Barovelli

05-15-08, 08:44 AM

Keep an eye open at all times . . . it's nearly done.

Did you blink? I think it's done.

clau

05-15-08, 11:19 AM

We're still not upgraded in 94087 off Knickerbocker...last update from Comcast was that they'd be done by 5/16, then we lost everything except analog last Monday and when I called the CSR said they'd be done by the end of May...I'll believe it when I see it :(

Sorry to hear that. The CSR in the Sunnyvale store said that we will not get Blast until all of Sunnyvale is upgraded. The CSR I called had no idea when Blast will be available.

Derek87

05-15-08, 12:20 PM

Larry Kenney

05-15-08, 02:01 PM

What's odd is that the actual recording "stops" as well, there's not been any blank space that I can remember, it just jumps ahead ant he recording length is shortened to however much time was jumped. I had a few that were 45-55 minutes long when they should have been 60 mins.

I have noticed that on my Dish DVR, if I lose signal during a recording there's no blank space on playback. It simply jumps from the end of the good video to the start of the next good video.

I was recording a show OTA from a rather distant station recently and the 30 minute show ended up being just 27 minutes long on my hard drive. Apparently the signal dropped out for three minutes. The recording just skipped the part where there was no signal.

I have a feeling that's what's happening to your recordings from KTVU. For some reason you're losing the signal for a few minutes and that's why your recording was shorter.

Larry
SF

Brian Conrad

05-15-08, 02:46 PM

so...i finally called CSR about my "one moment please" for USAHD and DSCHD channels...spent about 40 min on the phone with them and finally found that for both of these stations on the same frequency (this is 95054 in Santa Clara), there was 0 db SNR!

he wants to send a tech out to look at this which is fine in principle except that my work schedule is insane and i can't sit around waiting for them during the work day or weekend for the next 3 weeks. :(

anyway, i wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on this. is this really something that is on my end, or a consequence of them trying to regulate the new digital tiers and my "weird packaging"?

for the record, i had occasional problems of 750 (DSCHD) breaking up in the past, but USAHD always worked prior to now. (now = i just got back from some international travel and i am guessing this problem all came down when they added the new channels (SCIHD, FOODHD and CNNHD, none of which i get).

the rest of my HD channels work as before...

i'd appreciate any thoughts/experiences and whether i'm going to end up wasting my time taking time off of work down the road to get this squared away.

What is your current package? I had USAHD until they moved channels around. And they sent out techs twice when all they needed to do was contact someone who could see that with the package I had I wouldn't get certain channels. I finally switched to the "Digital Starter" package and got the channels I was looking for. Their system isn't perfect and so you may be getting channels you are supposed too but it may be too difficult for Comcast to keep you from getting them so they let it slide. Of course that confuses things even more.