My personal opinion is that FTTH is not necessary at all. It all comes down to how far you pull the fiber into a neighborhood. AT&T could offer 20mBit service over the existing copper into your home if they would pull fiber to each service pedestal in a neighborhood. The only problem then is the size of the equipment at that transition from fiber to copper. Most telephone service pedestals are totally passive since they're just a big patch panel. A DSL Access Mux obviously takes power and more space. For Comcast, it's just a matter of how many customers are sharing each "channel" of bandwidth and how many channels they assign to HSI.

- Mike

You have to consider the video part of it too. AT&T has struggled to get 2 HD signals down that pipe and I'm not even sure if they've accomplished it yet.

As far as internet, Comcast is in good shape there, all they really need to do is decide how fast they want to go and dedicate the channel space to do it. Going full digital and migrating to MPEG4 should free up the space they might need.


On a different note, got a letter announcing changes in rates and the impending upgrade going live today. Limited Basic will be going down to $16.57 from $18.07. I can definitely live with that. :)

Everything else is going up, Expanded, Standard and Starter.

One of the problems with FTTH conversion is that much of the neighborhood underground systems are direct buried, as in the copper cable is buried directly in the ground. 80% of Rohnert Park fits this category. In order to go FTTH, they would have to trench entire neighborhoods and place conduit, or actually innerliner, to put the fiber in for disbursal. That is an extremely expensive proposition with a very little return, or extremely long period, on investment.

AT&T is placing FTTH in most new medium to large new subdivisions that are in larger cities as a general rule today.

My personal opinion is that FTTH is not necessary at all. It all comes down to how far you pull the fiber into a neighborhood. AT&T could offer 20mBit service over the existing copper into your home if they would pull fiber to each service pedestal in a neighborhood. The only problem then is the size of the equipment at that transition from fiber to copper. Most telephone service pedestals are totally passive since they're just a big patch panel. A DSL Access Mux obviously takes power and more space. For Comcast, it's just a matter of how many customers are sharing each "channel" of bandwidth and how many channels they assign to HSI.

- Mike
considering they already met with resistence in neighborhoods where they tried to install their massive refridgerator-sized boxes for Uverse in Santa Rosa... I'd say the chances of this are somewhere between 0.00% and 0.00% (rounded off).

as far as analog cable - most people have speculated that Comcast will turn off channels 32+ (about 40 channels) but keep 2-32 for the budget-minded "limited basic" subscribers.

those 40 channels would allow a lot of new digital/HD channels.

however the point is that they are under no madate from the FCC to do anything - it would merely be a coincidence if they did anything during the same time-frame.

Not quite coincidence, since the ready source of their analog feeds will be vanishing. ;)

That's a smack your forehead moment if I ever saw one. :D

Not quite coincidence, since the ready source of their analog feeds will be vanishing. ;)

But the source is not vanishing. It's picked up before it goes to the transmitter. Even if a giant gorilla climbs the tower and rips it down while swatting at biplanes or an air breathing Humboldt Squid attacks Sutro, the off air signal may fail, but your cable version will stay on.

BTW, Saratoga upgrade is done. Matter O' Fact, all the southbay 550 upgrades are done. On to the next project ;)

Yes, Comcast will continue to enjoy direct wire/fiber feeds from the broadcasters, but my point was that those feeds likely won't be analog anymore. So you'll have to insert an extra step compared to what's done now to retransmit them (as NTSC).

I hadn't thought of that but they are probably already digital, don't think you can send an analog signal over fiber optics.... so Comcast is re-encoding them to NTSC already, like they do for the dozens of satellite networks.

Does anybody know where to get an accurate channel list for the Digital Starter package in my area? When I use the Comcast.com channel lineup tool, it says that the only HD I would get in Digital Starter are my locals and NatGeo. From previous conversations in this thread, I know that is incorrect.

So...are there other sources for accurate package lineups?

(I won't be switching to satellite until the late Fall, and my Comcast promo price ends soon. So, I want to find ways to save on my Comcast bill until I make the switch.)

EDIT: Oops. I see now that the HD Starter channels are listed separately. I was originally looking in the general "Digital Starter" list, which only included NGHD. I see that all of the HD channels, up until the April additions are included. Does anybody know if those are included in Starter, as well? (CNN, Animal, Food, AMC, etc) I assume they are, and the list hasn't been updated. But, I'd like to know for sure.

I hadn't thought of that but they are probably already digital, don't think you can send an analog signal over fiber optics.... so Comcast is re-encoding them to NTSC already, like they do for the dozens of satellite networks.Don't be silly. Of course you can send an analog signal over fiber optics! Whether Comcast's NTSC network feeds are now already in ATSC format or not is a separate question. If they are, then dropping the conversion to analog would be yet another economic factor in favor of their following (or preceding) the OTA switchover.

It seems Comcast's 'Basic Cable' encryption policy is inconsistent or there is a problem with my both my Sony TV's. Both 7.x and 9.x show up as "Not Authorized". All other DT channels are received as unencrypted.

Is there someone my area that can verify if this is a Comcast problem or my misunderstanding of Comcasts intent?

So...are there other sources for accurate package lineups?

EDIT: Oops. I see now that the HD Starter channels are listed separately. I was originally looking in the general "Digital Starter" list, which only included NGHD. I see that all of the HD channels, up until the April additions are included. Does anybody know if those are included in Starter, as well? (CNN, Animal, Food, AMC, etc) I assume they are, and the list hasn't been updated. But, I'd like to know for sure.

Your best bet might be to pick up a hardcopy channel guide from a local office.

In San Mateo, the Digital Starter package only covers Expanded Basic plus Hallmark and FSN Plus. If there's an HD version of an Expanded Basic channel (such as FSN, VS/GOLF, ESPN, ESPN2, A&E, TBS, TNT, USA, UNIV, MOJO, MHD, HGTV, DISC, HIST, SCIFI, FOOD, ANIM, AMC, CNN), then you get those, too. Nat Geo and Science Channel are part of the Digital Classic package so I don't get either the SD or HD versions of those. Could be different in your area...

Hi! Everyone.

I live in SF and I have comcast regular cable. I usually get all the free HD channels such as Fox, nbc, cbs, abc and etc. For the past two days I get no signal for fox or cbs. Does anyone know a specific reason why? Anyone living in SF having the same problem. Thanks in advance.

It seems Comcast's 'Basic Cable' encryption policy is inconsistent or there is a problem with my both my Sony TV's. Both 7.x and 9.x show up as "Not Authorized". All other DT channels are received as unencrypted.

Is there someone my area that can verify if this is a Comcast problem or my misunderstanding of Comcasts intent?

Same thing in Santa Rosa. Looks like another Comcast screw-up. Hopefully they'll figure it out soon.

Also, a lot of digital channels are no longer coming in on my DVR's second tuner, but the main tuner is fine. Very weird.

Hi! Everyone.

I live in SF and I have comcast regular cable. I usually get all the free HD channels such as Fox, nbc, cbs, abc and etc. For the past two days I get no signal for fox or cbs. Does anyone know a specific reason why? Anyone living in SF having the same problem. Thanks in advance.

I have the same problem. I can't get any clear QAM channels anymore. Did comcast change their policy? I thought providing the major networks over clear QAM was an FCC mandate:confused:

Same thing happened at my folks in Los Altos a few months back.

They don't watch the HDTV channels much, certainly not much of Fox or CBS.

I have the same problem. I can't get any clear QAM channels anymore. Did comcast change their policy? I thought providing the major networks over clear QAM was an FCC mandate:confused:

The channels have been moved around. Try rescanning for the digital cable channels.

FWIW, I'm in Sunnyvale, lost those 2 channels, but recovered them after rescanning. Go here to find out what the physical channels are:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun

Quick comment: If you live in a recently upgraded area, make sure to upgrade your HD-DVR set top box to a Motorola DCH3416 (http://www.motorola.com/business/v/item.jsp?vgnextoid=6c2d9e3eeed46110VgnVCM1000008406b00aRCRD&localeId=33).

This is an all digital box, so it will only work in the upgraded areas. I went to the Hayward Comcast store (I'm in the Hayward area) and they let me swap out my old box for the newer model with no questions asked!

It works like a charm. The biggest difference is that there is virtually no delay when navigating through the menu and the on-screen channel guide. This was a huge problem I experienced with the older HD-DVR moto box (DCT6412). It also automatically resizes SD channels to 4:3. The 160GB capacity rocks too!

...and still, after one year, the red recording lights do not work......

I hear it doesn't fix the remote lag or not completely, either. I've been putting off upgrading until I have a chance to watch all my recordings, but it seems like I'll never catch up...

The hope too is that DOCSIS 3 will negate most of the benefits of FiOS. At least that's the hope...

It should because Comcast will need to make their Docsis 3.0 compete with FIOS not just in cost, but also in bandwidth offered to customers. Once they do that they'll eventually roll it out to us.

Recall that's how blast came about. Blast was to compete with FIOS, and it worked, and they rolled it out in many markets now, including non-FIOS markets.

What we need is for Verizon FIOS to keep upping the ante. They should follow the lead of Bay Area FTTP company Paxio and offer 100Mbps up/down (gigabit up/down like Paxio has would be nice too, but I doubt FIOS would ever offer that).

If FIOS can get enough 100 up/down subs, Comcast will be forced to offer 100 up/down (which they could theoretically do with DOCSIS 3.0). Once that goes smoothly, then we can get 100 Mbps up/down. :D

In the meanwhile I keep trying to convince my wife (We are currently and have always been renters) to buy a property that already has Paxio so we can enjoy gigabit up/down in the Bay Area, but so far, that hasn't been easy even though she is an internet/t-o-r-r-e-n-t freak, she doesn't want to settle for a townhome simply because it has Paxio FTTP.

It should because Comcast will need to make their Docsis 3.0 compete with FIOS not just in cost, but also in bandwidth offered to customers. Once they do that they'll eventually roll it out to us.

Recall that's how blast came about. Blast was to compete with FIOS, and it worked, and they rolled it out in many markets now, including non-FIOS markets.

What we need is for Verizon FIOS to keep upping the ante. They should follow the lead of Bay Area FTTP company Paxio and offer 100Mbps up/down (gigabit up/down like Paxio has would be nice too, but I doubt FIOS would ever offer that).

If FIOS can get enough 100 up/down subs, Comcast will be forced to offer 100 up/down (which they could theoretically do with DOCSIS 3.0). Once that goes smoothly, then we can get 100 Mbps up/down. :D

In the meanwhile I keep trying to convince my wife (We are currently and have always been renters) to buy a property that already has Paxio so we can enjoy gigabit up/down in the Bay Area, but so far, that hasn't been easy even though she is an internet/t-o-r-r-e-n-t freak, she doesn't want to settle for a townhome simply because it has Paxio FTTP.

Gigabit for $245 a month is a bit steep, but that Value plan of 20/20 for $48.50 is a great deal.

Saw a press release that says they're delivering DirecTV channels over that pipe, no dish needed, sort of like an MDU setup only over broadband.

Gigabit for $245 a month is a bit steep, but that Value plan of 20/20 for $48.50 is a great deal.

Saw a press release that says they're delivering DirecTV channels over that pipe, no dish needed, sort of like an MDU setup only over broadband.

Well it's still more like an MDU set up in the sense that one dish per community is needed.

"With one dish serving a whole community or commercial center, PAXIO will be able to deploy one of the world's only 1Gbps residential Internet connections, the world's best satellite television provider and digital phone to every home and/or business that is connected."

The idea is a community has one dish and uses the existing PAXIO wiring to pipe it in. PAXIO will not be distributing the content to customers.

And $245/month for gigabit (1000/1000, emphasized because numbers show the difference better) up and down is not steep in light of the market (The market being Comcast's 50/5 service that they are charging $150/month for!) Sure none of us need it, but if you want gigabit both ways, this is great pricing!

Anybody in the San Carlos area (or anyone who receives KNTV 11 HD on 120.3) getting a very bad signal? Breakup is so bad its unwatchable. Same with 120.4 which is NBC Weather or something like that, and its just digital, not HD

"Gigabit" service huh?

Isn't that far beyond the limits of what you will actually get from the usual web server? Sure, if you look at the reasonable options (50/5), the price isn't that high.

But, 128MB/sec?? That's about double the speed of a typical desktop hard drive... you can't download faster than you can write to disk, so unless you plan to share this service with a house full of roomates each with their own computer(s)... at best you're going to use 1/4 of that... ?

"Gigabit" service huh?

Isn't that far beyond the limits of what you will actually get from the usual web server? Sure, if you look at the reasonable options (50/5), the price isn't that high.

But, 128MB/sec?? That's about double the speed of a typical desktop hard drive... you can't download faster than you can write to disk, so unless you plan to share this service with a house full of roomates each with their own computer(s)... at best you're going to use 1/4 of that... ?

Well if you get gigabit internet, one might assume you would consider getting some of those fast top of the line hard drives. Even if not, let assume I have this gigabit internet and download stuff off another friend's computer who also has gigabit internet. If that kind of download even simply matches the speed at which I could copy something located on my C: in x folder and then put it in y folder also on C:, that's still pretty god-damned mind-blowing in my book.

Plus you cannot forget that it goes both ways, for many, it would nice to simply have 1000 Mbps upload. It's all about t-o-r-r-e-n-t-s both ways, and Paxio doesn't cap/restrict that kind of usage (t-o-r-r-e-n-t) as far as I know. They do have a usage policy, but I don't think they go out of their way on this kind of stuff.

Gigabit service would be nice of course. The use of that pipe would be multi-device/computer. Streaming HD to an Apple TV, Streaming DVD's from Netflix, Voice services (Vonage), Slingbox, plus all your regular computer data needs. As for Comcast TV service what will be the next rollout of HD channels as the Comcast Radio Ads are now hinting at? Any oppinions? BBC HD would be nice if they make if available.

Gigabit service would be nice of course. The use of that pipe would be multi-device/computer. Streaming HD to an Apple TV, Streaming DVD's from Netflix, Voice services (Vonage), Slingbox, plus all your regular computer data needs. As for Comcast TV service what will be the next rollout of HD channels as the Comcast Radio Ads are now hinting at? Any oppinions? BBC HD would be nice if they make if available.

I forgot about SlingBox, but yeah both the upload and download would provide multiple needs.

As to the next rollout, BBC (America?) HD would be nice. I personally am hoping for ESPNNEWS HD. I've seen it on Dish and love it and when I want to see highlights at any time I feel like it, I hate having to turn to god awful ESPNNEWS SD because either Sportscenter is not on or takes too long with the highlights.

Cable is not required to create PSIP. They are only required to pass through PSIP with appropriate modifications.

You will unlikely ever get the same ease-of-use functionality out of clear QAM as you have had with your analog cable-ready system. As things currently stand, you won't be getting expanded basic because those channels will be encrypted. You won't be getting PSIP for ADS channels because they didn't have it to start with.

This is completely wrong.

I confirmed this last month when I talked to a friend of who works for comcast back east. Part of their strategy to go all digital involves the use of DTA's. See the story here: http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6573422.html?industryid=47194 These are really cheap boxes (about the same cost as a DOCSIS modem) that do not do 2-way, have a guide, or do crypto. They are buying millions of them, and will be sticking them on subs TV's that are analog only now so they can shut off the expanded basic analog channels. Basic cable will continue to be shipped around as analog, but this change should free up 200-300 Mhz of cable spectrum for HD and DOSCIS 3.0 carriers.

Because they lost their lawsuit against FCC, they cannot deploy boxes that use anything other than cablecard for encryption, unless the FCC gives them a waiver, which Comcast believes is highly unlikely (I agree). Because of all the crap that cablelabs imposed on vendors making cablecard devices, the cost of a STB with cablecard is much higher than the cost of a STB with the old embedded crypto like the old Moto boxes used. The cable guys never thought the FCC would actually force them to use the same same stuff they forced CE vendors to use, so it's an unexpected cost hit.

So, to deploy the DTA's, they have to off crypto for at least the ADS versions of the expanded basic tier, and certainly everything in the basic tier, though that's already in the clear. My friend tells me some of the programmers are howling, but its only SD and they are going to have to live with it. There are reports in a few markets of the whole expanded basic tier being sent in the clear right now, along with reshuffling of QAM carriers so that the ADS versions of the expanded basic channels move into the spectrum covered by the traps already out in the plant. Expect a bunch of shuffling around of QAM carriers as this process begins in the various markets.

I suggested they might also insert new PSIP data so that QAM ready sets could get reasonable support so they wouldn't even need DTA's for them.

Comcast has realized they are in a hole and that the FCC isn't going to be cutting them any favors any time soon, so they HAVE to move on all digital conversion, and the DTA's are the centerpiece of than plan.

I didn't hear about when the Bay Area would get converted, as apparently schedules are still fluid, but when you see a lot of QAM carrier shuffling, that is a good sign.

It seems like Comcast is finally starting to move aggressively, but deployments will be uneven as the markets still have a lot of control over timing.

That is good to hear about dropping that much analog to free up bandwidth. I also bet it would be safe to assume that they will charge something like a buck or two for the privlidge of a DTA. On another note has anyone here ever had the HDMI port stop functioning on their DCT3416's? I was watching tv last night and all of a sudden the box stopped sending a signal over HDMI, I thougt it might have been a crypto issue but did the usual resets and the who two step dance with the CSR and of course no ammount of resets re-enabled the port. Of course outputting over firewire to my TV works as well as component, composite, and S-Video. If I do have to replace the box does anyone know if they provide HDMI cables along with their DCH's or is it still only component. Thanks

This is completely wrong.
I don't see how any of what I wrote is completely wrong.

Did the FCC change the rules to require Comcast to generate PSIP rather than pass through? Has Comcast commited to generating PSIP for ADS channels on their own? Have they considered they will be getting support calls when they decide to move channels around because people don't realize they need to rescan?

I wrote that "as it currently stands" expanded basic is encrypted. I checked and it is encrypted.

Even w/o encryption, without PSIP there is a huge convenience factor difference when the channel #s don't match what is in the guide. Further it is a huge inconvenience to have to scan the channels manually to figure out where a channel moved. Even with PSIP, the channel rescan has to be done because PSIP is delivered inline, not OOB.

There are no rules that force cable to announce in advance channel changes for digital, like there are with analog. Cable has enjoyed the ability and convenience (from their standpoint) to move stuff around at will on the digital signals.

If someone wanted to create the same ease-of-use functionality on digital as you have with analog, you would need:
1) unencrypted channels (presumably in the filter range)
2) PSIP for all the channels
3) commitment to not move the channels around very often and announce movement ahead of time

What you have discussed only addresses #1.

Until you see all three, you won't see the same ease-of-use functionality as with analog cable-ready.

Now if in the future the came out with standardized OOB channel mapping that did not require CableCARD, then those new devices could enjoy the same ease-of-use as analog cable-ready, however that hasn't happened and I don't hear big buzz about it being a priority. Older devices that have no upgradeability would of course have no way to use such a OOB channel mapping scheme.

I don't see how any of what I wrote is completely wrong.

Did the FCC change the rules to require Comcast to generate PSIP rather than pass through? Has Comcast commited to generating PSIP for ADS channels on their own? Have they considered they will be getting support calls when they decide to move channels around because people don't realize they need to rescan?

I wrote that "as it currently stands" expanded basic is encrypted. I checked and it is encrypted.

Even w/o encryption, without PSIP there is a huge convenience factor difference when the channel #s don't match what is in the guide. Further it is a huge inconvenience to have to scan the channels manually to figure out where a channel moved. Even with PSIP, the channel rescan has to be done because PSIP is delivered inline, not OOB.

There are no rules that force cable to announce in advance channel changes for digital, like there are with analog. Cable has enjoyed the ability and convenience (from their standpoint) to move stuff around at will on the digital signals.

If someone wanted to create the same ease-of-use functionality on digital as you have with analog, you would need:
1) unencrypted channels (presumably in the filter range)
2) PSIP for all the channels
3) commitment to not move the channels around very often and announce movement ahead of time

What you have discussed only addresses #1.

Until you see all three, you won't see the same ease-of-use functionality as with analog cable-ready.

Now if in the future the came out with standardized OOB channel mapping that did not require CableCARD, then those new devices could enjoy the same ease-of-use as analog cable-ready, however that hasn't happened and I don't hear big buzz about it being a priority. Older devices that have no upgradeability would of course have no way to use such a OOB channel mapping scheme.

First off, all three of your points are things that will have to be addressed as part of the all digital conversion process. You don't need cablecard for channel mapping for example. The OOB carrier that is at 75 Mhz transmits the channel map info in the clear. It's just that vendors of clear QAM gear don't add the hardware of a separate OOB tuner. It also has to be that case because the DTA's don't have crypto in them, but they will have to be able to map channels.

As for moving things around, the only issue for TV's is the unencrypted channels, as the TV won't be able to pick up anything else. There is a lot of shuffling around that gets done now because of the lack of free channels. Once expanded basic goes all digital, that problem will be greatly ameliorated. There will no issue keeping the ADS channels fixed, along with the basic cable channels. So you shouldn't need to re-scan very often at all.

The DTA may have an OOB tuner in it, but it also might pick up a map from a CVCT transmission if the mapping is going to be done in fairly static way, and it certainly won't need to listen to the OOB channel for authorization info either. You get the box and it just works. No need to "hit" it. So a lot of the reasons an OOB receiver would be needed are somewhat moot for the DTA. That means things will also be a lot easier for QAM capable sets.

Here is a decent thread talk talks about the two kinds of channel mappings that happen. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920781

I believe things are going to get much easier for the equivalent of an analog only TV today that is converted into the digital domain, DTA or clear QAM. All good for consumers, and ultimately good for Comcast as well. I am glad they are finally stepping up.

You don't need cablecard for channel mapping for example. The OOB carrier that is at 75 Mhz transmits the channel map info in the clear. It's just that vendors of clear QAM gear don't add the hardware of a separate OOB tuner.
Yeah, clearly the cable STBs are able to get their channel map via OOB. That's not the point though.

The issue is your current TV, PVR, etc. is not able to get a channel map other than through PSIP or through a channel map retrieved through the CableCARD.

For the matter of discussing the convenience of digital mapping vs cable-ready analog it doesn't matter whose fault that is, whether the manufacturer didn't include portions or the cable company never spec'd it out. All that matters is your current device won't work with the existing OOB channel map unless it has some expansion capability and the spec is written and adopted.

From what you wrote, I see a commitment to recover bandwidth. I have no problems believing that portion.

Whether they could make digital cable as convenient to use as cable-ready analog and whether they will make it as easy to use are different questions.

I agree they could make it as easy to use if it was a priority. Clearly recovering bandwidth is a high priority. Ease of use for our own digital equipment has never been a high priority. The response in the past has always been "use our box and your problems will go away". Maybe the mindset is changing. I'll believe it when I see it.

When I can plug in my existing TiVo S3/HD to the wall (w/o CableCARD) and start recording all of my expanded basic including my HD expanded basic, then cable would have reached the ease of use of current analog digital-ready.

Personally I think they are mainly being forced to go with leaving expanded basic ADS unencrypted not because they want to make it more convenient for us to use our equipment but because their previous DCT-700 flooding plan was rendered not financially viable because of the integration ban.

They need the additional ease-of-use commitment and mindset to actually change this from something that could be possible to something that will be available.

Put it this way, if Comcast comes out and advertises that they are better than D* or E* because they don't require you to use an STB for digital channels, then I'll believe it.

The DTA may have an OOB tuner in it, but it also might pick up a map from a CVCT transmission if the mapping is going to be done in fairly static way, and it certainly won't need to listen to the OOB channel for authorization info either. You get the box and it just works. No need to "hit" it. So a lot of the reasons an OOB receiver would be needed are somewhat moot for the DTA. That means things will also be a lot easier for QAM capable sets.
I doubt the DTA will pick up channel mapping and guide data from CVCT (cable version of PSIP).

It will very likely get the channel mapping and guide data from the existing OOB data that CableCARDs and standard STBs use, which is separate from CVCT. It is much easier for them to strip out the CableCARD hardware and processing from a DCT-700 and use the existing OOB channel map and guide data than it is to change the device into one based on PSIP/CVCT.

Whether they have the desire to actually make PSIP/CVCT useful for our own equipment requires a different level of ease-of-use commitment from the cable company.

so do I have this right, the FCC required cable to use Cablecards in all their boxes, and since cable decided "nah we'll do something different" this effectively killed Cablecard once and for all?

that's awesome, thanks FCC!

though I guess things like SDV were also bound to doom CC sooner or later.

so do I have this right, the FCC required cable to use Cablecards in all their boxes, and since cable decided "nah we'll do something different" this effectively killed Cablecard once and for all?

that's awesome, thanks FCC!

though I guess things like SDV were also bound to doom CC sooner or later.
Integration ban killed the DCT-700 and similar low-end flood the market products for digital transition. You can't add a $50 CC to a $50 DCT-700 and still make the numbers work.

It didn't kill CableCARD, in general, which is being used for the higher-end STB/PVRs, where $50 is not as big a percentage of the price.

SDV doesn't doom CC. Except for TiVo (effectively), which gets a tuning adapter in a bid to show the cable companies are being proactive, it dooms one-way CC *host* devices. The same CableCARD we currently use is spec'd for 2-way services if the host device includes QPSK modem or DSG.

Uh, so I'm watching the Giants v A's game on 703 and suddenly the picture went to SD and the audio is from an entirely different channel... sounds like "E!" celebrity crap.

???????

...and now it's back. that was weird.

Integration ban killed the DCT-700 and similar low-end flood the market products for digital transition..Ah but that's the thing, did it? If I'm reading this right, seems more like it just forced cablecos to change they way they encrypt things a little bit so they could flood the market with different cheap boxes.

Either way, CC is dead as ... dead. And we are all thankful for that. Of course that bell sounded about two years ago when every TV manufacturer dumped it, really.

Uh, so I'm watching the Giants v A's game on 703 and suddenly the picture went to SD and the audio is from an entirely different channel... sounds like "E!" celebrity crap.

???????

...and now it's back. that was weird.hm and now the game is over and it F'ed up again. Oh well, time to change the channel and never change it back to 703 again until the next Giants game anyway... :cool:

Either way, CC is dead as ... dead. And we are all thankful for that. Of course that bell sounded about two years ago when every TV manufacturer dumped it, really.OTOH...

Sony partners with cable providers on digital cable ready TVs

http://www.betanews.com/article/Sony_partners_with_cable_providers_on_digital_cable_ready_TV s/1212002983

Yeah that's "tru2way" or Open Cable or OCAP... the 2nd go-round after CC failed so miserably.

Worst name ever, by the way.

hm and now the game is over and it F'ed up again. Oh well, time to change the channel and never change it back to 703 again until the next Giants game anyway... :cool:


Welcome to the wonderful world of your local NBC affilate KNTV-11... Still sucking after all these years!

fitprod

Is anyone getting lazy renames of the Starz channels? It shows up as STRZ1, STRZ2, STRZ3, STRZ4, STRZ5, STRZ6, STRZ7 on the guide. (Not exactly, but close.. thats all I remember) Same with Encore.

Yeah that's "tru2way" or Open Cable or OCAP... the 2nd go-round after CC failed so miserably.

Worst name ever, by the way.
Tru2way uses CC (and potentialy other future separable security)

Until you see devices using DCAS, CC is not dead, it is the only way to do decryption unless you get a waiver.

Welcome to the wonderful world of your local NBC affilate KNTV-11... Still sucking after all these years!Funny because I was reading the history of KNTV11, I had never even heard of the channel until NBC switched over to them instead of KRON... I grew up in Marin.. but now that I think about it, I do remember at one time (late 70s-80s) having 2 ABC stations- 7 and 11, on cable. In fact I think we had THREE (7,11 and 13?) I think 13 was a Sacto channel...

There was also 2 NBC stations for some time, 3 and 4 (on cable). 4 was KRON but what was channel 3, anyone remember? Another Sac channel?

Ch 3 is KCRA(NBC) Sacramento

KNTV is not an affiliate BTW, it's an O&O(owned and operated) [by] NBC/Universal.

Ah but that's the thing, did it? If I'm reading this right, seems more like it just forced cablecos to change they way they encrypt things a little bit so they could flood the market with different cheap boxes.
It didn't just "change the way they encrypt things a little bit".

It forced them to drop encryption completely on the channels the DCT-700 was supposed to address (essentially ADS channels). They also ended up dropping 2-way services and guide services completely on the new box.

Basically it didn't kill the idea of a cheap digital transition box. It killed the idea of a cheap digital transition box that supported encryption and 2-way.

I thought "tru2way" didn't use physical cards?

It didn't just "change the way they encrypt things a little bit".

It forced them to drop encryption completely on the channels the DCT-700 was supposed to address (essentially ADS channels). They also ended up dropping 2-way services and guide services completely on the new box.

Basically it didn't kill the idea of a cheap digital transition box. It killed the idea of a cheap digital transition box that supported encryption and 2-way.

Right, but I was thinking of how they said they will put expanded basic digital channels in the same spectrum that the notch filters block out now. Ok it's not "encryption" but it does the same job.

Ch 3 is KCRA(NBC) Sacramento

KNTV is not an affiliate BTW, it's an O&O(owned and operated) [by] NBC/Universal.

Ah yeah, interesting. At some point they dropped that channel from the North Bay systems. I want to say it was when KNTV11 was moved in there to channel 3 but it may have been before that even.

I thought "tru2way" didn't use physical cards?
Tru2way is middleware to support application built on top of lower-level encryption. Basically think of Tru2way as a Java VM. Tru2way is mostly a renaming of OCAP/CC2.0.

It currently uses CCs because that is what is available. It is supposed to use DCAS when that is available.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080107-panasonic-touts-portable-dvr-two-way-cablecard-support.html?rel


Tru2way is a middleware stack that will be included in televisions and other consumer devices that make use of cable programming. It's based on Java and provides a common system for application development (cable companies can download apps like electronic programming guides into the device). Because apps are downloaded into consumer devices and run locally, it should be simple for cable operators to roll out features like games, web-type features such as online backing through the TV, e-mail access, even caller ID on the TV screen.

The system still relies on the physical CableCARD for decryption, but it makes now it easy to use two-way features. CableCARDs have always been physically capable of two-way transmission, but to date, host devices like TVs have not supported this functionality.

Thanks, yeah I was reading up on it, sounds interesting, basically cablecos can "install" programs into your TV/etc. Couldn't find any info on the hardware though.

It sounds like CC are temporary and DCAS? will replace them - what is that?
-- nevermind: Eventually, we expect the CableCARD to vanish too, replaced with a downloadable content access system (DCAS), but that looks to be even further off.


So are we going to see (once again) TVs with Cablecard slots in them for the next model year?

Oh that portable DVR sounds bitchin' too.

Ok it's not "encryption" but it does the same job.
To me, encryption and notch filters serve the same purpose of access control, but there are quite different ramifications for the end-user.

I've been getting moderately bad breakups on USA-HD for the past couple weeks here in the city of SF. All the other channels seem fine, but I've noticed this during various shows I've watched, TiVo recordings of "In Plain Sight" and again last night during some movie I caught a few minutes of.

They seem to come in clusters - I'll get 0.5-1 second audio/video dropouts, maybe 4-5 within 60 seconds, then it seems to be OK for anywhere from 2-20 minutes.

Anyone else? Any ideas?

Thanks, yeah I was reading up on it, sounds interesting, basically cablecos can "install" programs into your TV/etc. Couldn't find any info on the hardware though.

It sounds like CC are temporary and DCAS? will replace them - what is that?
-- nevermind:

So are we going to see (once again) TVs with Cablecard slots in them for the next model year?

Oh that portable DVR sounds bitchin' too.

DCAS has yet to be approved by the FCC. Until it does, if ever, CC is the only way it can work, as that was approved by the original DFAST order. BTW, CC is actually quite a fine technology. It's virtually unbreakable, works with crypto in both Mot and SA markets, and is fairly straightforward to engineer to, and has lots of semiconductor support (ie chipsets are around that talk to it).

The issue has always been the nightmare of certification that cablelabs has put CE vendors through who attempt to use it. And tru2way is far worse, requiring OCAP which enables the cable operator to control the look and feel of the box. Hopefully the FCC will put a stop to this kind of stupidity.

The issue has always been the nightmare of certification that cablelabs has put CE vendors through who attempt to use it.
That is an issue, but there are other issues at play as well. Initial install and billing are 2 commonly complained about problems. Further there is a big question about whether any separable security will be desired in a TV if it costs extra money. From purchase patterns, consumers appear to be willing to pay for CC if it enables the functionality of their PVR, but instead go for an STB if they just want to power their TV and the cost is the same or similar.

Anybody in the San Carlos area (or anyone who receives KNTV 11 HD on 120.3) getting a very bad signal? Breakup is so bad its unwatchable. Same with 120.4 which is NBC Weather or something like that, and its just digital, not HD

I've had this problem from time to time, with some odd variations:
- I've seen this problem for weeks at a time when viewing these channels directly on my TV (a Mitsubishi). But...
- When viewing the same channel through my TiVo S3, the problem disappears. TiVo recordings were also just fine, unsurprisingly.
- The problem disappeared a few weeks ago, mostly for good, though I did see it temporarily one evening a week or so ago.

Puzzling, and frustrating.

That is an issue, but there are other issues at play as well. Initial install and billing are 2 commonly complained about problems. Further there is a big question about whether any separable security will be desired in a TV if it costs extra money. From purchase patterns, consumers appear to be willing to pay for CC if it enables the functionality of their PVR, but instead go for an STB if they just want to power their TV and the cost is the same or similar.

I have had multiple friends who have had issues with their initial installs, but telling the CSR to just add an AO code on the card in their provisioning system fixed the issue and the card initialized just fine. This is just incompetance by the Comcast installers and CSR's. They really have no clue about what they are doing with cablecard. But that isn't an issue with cablecard itself, and some other operators are much better at it than Comcast. Billing in the same category.

The issue isn't with CC in TV's, though if the cost were low enough (cost not just being hardware costs but time and team effort to get certification done), I am not sure that you wouldn't see it in at least higher end sets. The issue is with with PC's, CE branded STB's (like Tivo), and convergence devices (like Apple TV type boxes). You are assuming the tradeoff is between an MSO supplied leased STB with a POS UI and piss poor responsiveness vs a Tivo STB, but that is not at all the scenario that will yield a mass market product. Combine a Netflix style Roku box with cablecard DVR capability, and let it play files off home LAN attached storage and you have a whole new dimension of competition that I think could be very good.

All that is prevented by the stupid certification criteria that cablelabs requires.

Part of it I'm sure has to do with the fact that cablcos feel they are losing business if they install a CC in a customer's TV rather than give them a 2-way, VOD/PPV capable box. I mean, not much incentive to train your installers better if it means lost revenue if they do their job right. Hopefully a 2-way, PPV capable system will correct that.

So, I sold my soul to the Devil, I mean Comcast.

After a long vacation, 2 weeks out of the country, I came back wanting to watch the new Weeds season, so I called Comcast to get Showtime again. I was feeling really bad since with the new packages adding a premium channel is really expensive, around $17 a month. ouch!

So, to make a long story short, they offered me Comcast Voice free for one year, with that I get Showtime free for 6 months and after that is $6 a month. By that time Dexter should be done so I should be able to cancel again.

So now I have Blast, Comcast Voice (it'll be connected next week), and cable TV. And I'm paying $1 dollar less that I was paying before.

We'll see how this works.

This is just incompetance by the Comcast installers and CSR's. They really have no clue about what they are doing with cablecard. But that isn't an issue with cablecard itself, and some other operators are much better at it than Comcast.

I agree with this point wholeheartedly. I have a TiVo HD, and getting Comcast to properly install the CableCard in it was a nightmare. None of the CSR's or installers really knew what they were doing. They kept insisting it was a problem with the TiVo, which I knew it wasn't. I could've installed it myself in 5 minutes, but they couldn't get me a card that was configured properly.

Once I finally got through that mess, though, I love my TiVo HD and using the CableCard. It's worked flawlessly, reduces the clutter of having a separate cable box, and I couldn't care less about PPV or On-Demand, anyway.

BTW, the problem of CC's not allowing 2-way communication isn't a shortcoming of the technology - the cable companies like Comcast didn't want to allow it over security concerns and the like. So again - don't blame CableCards - blame Comcast. CableCards actually really are a good idea, if they would ever be supported properly.

So, I sold my soul to the Devil, I mean Comcast.

After a long vacation, 2 weeks out of the country, I came back wanting to watch the new Weeds season, so I called Comcast to get Showtime again. I was feeling really bad since with the new packages adding a premium channel is really expensive, around $17 a month. ouch!

So, to make a long story short, they offered me Comcast Voice free for one year, with that I get Showtime free for 6 months and after that is $6 a month. By that time Dexter should be done so I should be able to cancel again.

So now I have Blast, Comcast Voice (it'll be connected next week), and cable TV. And I'm paying $1 dollar less that I was paying before.

We'll see how this works.

So you're saying that by signing up with Comcast Voice, which is free for the 1st year, you get Showtime free for 6 months, and then at $6/month after that? So for no charge, you are getting both Voice and Showtime (for 6 months)? This seems too good to be true.

So you're saying that by signing up with Comcast Voice, which is free for the 1st year, you get Showtime free for 6 months, and then at $6/month after that? So for no charge, you are getting both Voice and Showtime (for 6 months)? This seems too good to be true.

Yep.
That's what I thought. I just couldn't believe it.
I was actually thinking on switching to Comcast Voice when it was $20 a month for one year since I have a land line with at&t (we use that line a lot, so we need that in addition to our cellphones). We only use it for local calls and use our cellphones for long distance calls. Of course with Comcast we'll have now long distance calls free.
The CSR actually told me "We are 'paying' you $1 to use Comcast voice". Since I'm going to save $1 compared to before when I didn't have Comcast voice and Showtime.

I have had multiple friends who have had issues with their initial installs, but telling the CSR to just add an AO code on the card in their provisioning system fixed the issue and the card initialized just fine. This is just incompetance by the Comcast installers and CSR's. They really have no clue about what they are doing with cablecard. But that isn't an issue with cablecard itself, and some other operators are much better at it than Comcast. Billing in the same category.
I don't think the end-user cares that the CC is working as designed but the cable company is screwing up royally.

I agree that certification is an impediment to the variety of new devices, but when the demand is restricted by install and billing problems, that is a negative feedback loop that tells the manufacturer even if we go through all the trouble for certification, the consumers aren't really choosing CableCARD.

BTW, the problem of CC's not allowing 2-way communication isn't a shortcoming of the technology - the cable companies like Comcast didn't want to allow it over security concerns and the like. So again - don't blame CableCards - blame Comcast. CableCards actually really are a good idea, if they would ever be supported properly.
You are right, CCs are designed to fully support 2-way.

There is blame in a lot of places over why no devices support 2-way. Manufacturers couldn't agree with cable companies over the OCAP requirement for 2-way devices.

I don't know if Comcast should garner that much blame, but assuming you feel that way, it is a chicken and the egg problem because supposing Comcast was supporting 2-way, there are no commercially available host devices that include the QPSK modem or DOCSIS modem to support 2-way. TiVo specifically doesn't include these pieces so they will never support 2-way with the builtin hardware. For SDV they are coming out with a USB controllable stripped down DCT-700 to do channel selection by proxy.

Harbinger of things to come... http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=158098&site=cdn&f_src=lightreading_sitedefault

Can't believe they're still waffling on getting rid of all the analog channels :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

I think "Analog Reclamation" is a much better approach to improving bandwidth utilization today than SDV is. Comcast management seems to agree - sort of. I suppose they're smart to hedge by doing both. After all, they could get rid of all the analog channels still may want to do SDV after that.

- Mike

I read an article about Comcast/SDV where the tech guy said they are working on keeping the blocking/stuttering and no signal incidences down to a minimum, not to not have any at all, but to a limited amount....not really encouraging to hear that...

looks like KNTV forgot to throw the switch... 11-1 showed the first few minutes of the Macy's spectacular, then black for a minute, then over to the local SJ fireworks coverage. SD channel went directly to the local coverage.

When it finally came up, it looks nice in HD. The camerawork, anyway. The graphic package leaves a lot to be desired.

Ok, I lied. The camerawork blows. Keep seeing the bottoms or tops of bursts, followed by dizzying pans and zooms.

Harbinger of things to come... http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=158098&site=cdn&f_src=lightreading_sitedefault

Can't believe they're still waffling on getting rid of all the analog channels :rolleyes:
Minneapolis -AND- St. Paul? Whoaaaaaa, they are really spreading out there! :D

Anyway if it's anything like VOD is now, it's pretty good, I don't get any stuttering/etc... not any more than other digital channels anyway. It wouldn't hurt to improve the remote response time a little though.

Minneapolis -AND- St. Paul? Whoaaaaaa, they are really spreading out there! :D

Anyway if it's anything like VOD is now, it's pretty good, I don't get any stuttering/etc... not any more than other digital channels anyway. It wouldn't hurt to improve the remote response time a little though.

Yep, Comcast moves like molasses in winter but it seems from the article they are finally moving to using SDV in more areas and are finally going to convert most of the analog channels to digital to reclaim more bandwidth. Not a bad thing, it just seems to be some movement starting that needed to be done along time ago IMHO ;)
At least they are doing it slowly to lessen the impact on their customers and making sure it works right before deploying it, unlike TWC who's ramming SDV done their customers throats whether they like it or not. I really feel sorry for those guys. A lot of discontent in the Tivo forums on TWC's implementation of SDV.

Laters,
Mikef5

As long as the Tivo adapter/firmware is ready by the time it comes to the Bay Area, I'm all for it.

I thought I saw an answer in a previous post, but now I can't find it. If you have just the Standard Cable package (analog - ch's 2-82 / Santa Clara 95051), should you be getting the channel guide info for the network digital stations that come through?

After reading other posts and experimenting, I had to install a signal booster because my bedroom is behind 4 splits, but I now get KTVU, KRON, KPIX, KGO, KNTV, KICU, KBCW, and KQED, through both my Samsung LN32A450's QAM tuner and my TiVo HD, but I don't get any channel guide information, which is particularly bad for trying to use my TiVo for scheduling recording on these channels.

I did both a new channel scan as well as the guided set-up on the TiVo, but still no info. I was beginning to think if you don't have the actual digital package, you won't get the channel info.

Program info for TiVo comes from TiVo, not Comcast. You have to get a CableCard to map the QAM channels to "Comcast channels", so you'll have the guide data from TiVo.

Thanks, c3. Now I know why I couldn't find the post I thought I had seen - it was over at the TiVo forum and it stated the same thing you just did. D'oh! Guess I'll have to look into getting the comcast card(s), particularly when the new fall network season starts.

Is anyone noticing that the Channel Guide (Moto DVR) is not able to display listings one week ahead now? If I go to next Monday, almost everything is "To Be Announced".
What happened???

It might have reset recently? Mine likes to just up and reset itself every so often.

I have another minor issue with it now though, everything is listed as "To Be Announced" on the DVR play/pause popup bar (the VCR/timeline thing). The channels show correct information on the Guide and Info pages, it's just on the DVR popup bar..

I'd say that I've noticed this within the last two weeks. Before then, I could go ahead several weeks with most listings. Now, If I watch "Swingtown" (for example) on it's original Thursday night airing, and then go to the following Thursday, it will say "to be Announced". So, if I go to record it, it has a multitude of prompts instead on the one-button push. (I think we all know that a series recording is ridiculous since it considers every re-airing as new!)

Yep, Comcast moves like molasses in winter but it seems from the article they are finally moving to using SDV in more areas and are finally going to convert most of the analog channels to digital to reclaim more bandwidth. Not a bad thing, it just seems to be some movement starting that needed to be done along time ago IMHO ;)
At least they are doing it slowly to lessen the impact on their customers and making sure it works right before deploying it, unlike TWC who's ramming SDV done their customers throats whether they like it or not. I really feel sorry for those guys. A lot of discontent in the Tivo forums on TWC's implementation of SDV.

Laters,
Mikef5

My son says his Comcast PQ has gone to hell and he's getting ready to drop them. Comcast better do something fast because I'm sure he's not alone! Comcast lost me a long time ago and they're a long ways from getting me back, not only the PQ but that POS they call a DVR. I follow this thread because I'm loyal to no provider. Everything on-Demand, that's what Comcast can and needs to do (if Netflix can do it- duh). That will get me back.

My son says his Comcast PQ has gone to hell and he's getting ready to drop them. Comcast better do something fast because I'm sure he's not alone!

No, he's not... SD PQ flat out sucks -- I guess they're using HITS for most of the networks now as well (not just HD). Initially, I thought it was just an ADS thing... until I popped the CableCARD out of my TV one day and saw that the plain-ol-analog-NTSC signal looked just as... Comcastic. As for the HD side of things... hard pressed to tell any difference from DVD quality on most channels (USA-HD, anyone?). Shouldn't HD material have some pop compared to watching a DVD of the same show? It used to...

And to think, I used to boast to my satellite-subscribing friends about how much better my PQ was...

Comcast would do well to recall that they're sure as hell not beating SatCo's on the price front, and keep the quality on the up-and-up.

The real kicker for me was that PQ declined sharply after my 550MHz neighborhood was upgraded. If the real issue here is limited bandwidth, here's your solution: cut analog entirely, and give your analog-only customers all the low-end converter boxes they need, for free. Sure, that'll cost money, but with the reclaimed bandwidth, you can offer your entire customer base higher quality and more choices -- which, if I recall correctly, was the message your last big ad campaign was trying to send -- "more HD content than satellite" -- you remember, the one that DirecTV's ad agency had a field day with. Who knows? More choices might just provide a competitive advantage large enough to offset that initial capital investment.

The bottom line here (no pun intended) is that you succeed by making your customers happy, whether they be at one end of the spectrum ("I'm concerned about PQ", like me) or the other ("I may not want a box for my analog TVs, but if you gave them to me, I might not mind"). Happy customers are even willing to pay a premium for being so (see: Apple).

Happy customers evangelize for you, unhappy ones recommend The Other Guy. Simple as that.

</RANT>

Picture quality of SD hasn't changed at all (it always sucks...) but PQ for many HD channels (most, but not all) declined pretty dramatically when they shifted over to "3-packing".

Picture quality of SD hasn't changed at all (it always sucks...)

I can assure you it most certainly did in Sunnyvale (94089) earlier this year (Jan~Feb). It went from crystal-clear on Expanded Basic channels to macroblocking and mosquito noise. On digital SD channels, any existing level of MPEG artifacts went from "totally acceptable" to "this is hardly watchable" (particularly for fast-moving sports).

For what it's worth... I'm using a CC with a Sony LCD RP set -- perhaps folks using the Moto boxen noticed less of a difference? When I originally dumped the box for the CC, the improvement in PQ with digital SD channels was nothing short of amazing.

I have another minor issue with it now though, everything is listed as "To Be Announced" on the DVR play/pause popup bar (the VCR/timeline thing). The channels show correct information on the Guide and Info pages, it's just on the DVR popup bar..

After returning from two weeks of vacation, I've noticed this as well . . . in addition to some changes in some of the DVR menuing related to recording in advance. I'm guessing we were gifted with an upgrade to the software, although the firmware on my 6412 is still listed as 16.20, which seems to be several minor bugfixes behind.

Maybe you have a signal problem. Or they are doing something different on your node than on mine, because SD channels look ok (for SD that is). I have ADS so they are all digital.

So I broke down and signed up for the the el cheapO basic cable
so I can get local HD channels. (mostly missed KQED in HD as I
use directv)
But the signal is a little weak at times, old wiring in house it would
seem. so I need a signal booster. the cheap ass radio shack old
one I had isnt doing a good enough job. does anyone have any
recommendations? the Motorola 484095 on amazon gets good
reviews.

my cable modem and tv dont seem to have any issues, its just
the tv tuner cards in my computer that do.

So I broke down and signed up for the the el cheapO basic cable
so I can get local HD channels. (mostly missed KQED in HD as I
use directv)
But the signal is a little weak at times, old wiring in house it would
seem. so I need a signal booster. the cheap ass radio shack old
one I had isnt doing a good enough job. does anyone have any
recommendations? the Motorola 484095 on amazon gets good
reviews.

my cable modem and tv dont seem to have any issues, its just
the tv tuner cards in my computer that do.

I can say the Motorola is definitely working for me. I didn't mention which specific booster I used in my post earlier on this page, but that's the one I'm using. My new LCD is behind 4 splits and I only got about 120 total channels on the first scan, plus I got zero signal for KRON, KGO, KQED, and KBCW, and just barely 45 (on the TiVo HD signal scale) for most of the rest.

After installing the Motorola right at the drop, I now get 95+ on the 4 previously at zero and, obviously, 100 on the rest. The channel scan after hooking it up produced 420 total channels - not that more than 5 new ones could actually be watched. As expected, my brother also benefits as the PQ on his old 37" Panasonic CRT in the living loom has greatly improved. We should've done this long ago as the PQ has never been all that great and used to get particularly bad when the weather turned warm.

Advice needed on clear QAM in Mountain View Comcast -

Our OTA reception of digital TV is poor compared to our analog reception, which will be gone in Feb 2009.

Now I have to choose between getting a better antenna or using Comcast or a satellite, just to get better OTA channels, our main concern, as we don't watch a lot of TV, and are content with the PBS offerings.

At present, I'm thinking of getting Comcast to improve reception of OTA channels, which I gather "Limited Basic" will do. However, my wife would also like to watch better coverage of the Olympics , which I believe will be carried on CNBC, MSNBC, and USA.

Our set has a QAM tuner. If I order "Limited Basic" - mostly the OTA channels - will I be able to get MSNBC and the other NBC/Universal channels through QAM, or are they encrypted? We've never had cable, so I'm unfamiliar with Comcast details.

Advice needed on clear QAM in Mountain View Comcast -

Our OTA reception of digital TV is poor compared to our analog reception, which will be gone in Feb 2009.

Now I have to choose between getting a better antenna or using Comcast or a satellite, just to get better OTA channels, our main concern, as we don't watch a lot of TV, and are content with the PBS offerings.

At present, I'm thinking of getting Comcast to improve reception of OTA channels, which I gather "Limited Basic" will do. However, my wife would also like to watch better coverage of the Olympics , which I believe will be carried on CNBC, MSNBC, and USA.

Our set has a QAM tuner. If I order "Limited Basic" - mostly the OTA channels - will I be able to get MSNBC and the other NBC/Universal channels through QAM, or are they encrypted? We've never had cable, so I'm unfamiliar with Comcast details.

Nope. They will most surely be encrypted. General rule of thumb: if it's digital and you can't get it OTA, it will be encrypted. You'll need a CableCARD device or Comcast box + a package that includes CNBC, MSNBC, and USA.

Advice needed on clear QAM in Mountain View Comcast -

Our OTA reception of digital TV is poor compared to our analog reception, which will be gone in Feb 2009.

Now I have to choose between getting a better antenna or using Comcast or a satellite, just to get better OTA channels, our main concern, as we don't watch a lot of TV, and are content with the PBS offerings.

At present, I'm thinking of getting Comcast to improve reception of OTA channels, which I gather "Limited Basic" will do. However, my wife would also like to watch better coverage of the Olympics , which I believe will be carried on CNBC, MSNBC, and USA.

Our set has a QAM tuner. If I order "Limited Basic" - mostly the OTA channels - will I be able to get MSNBC and the other NBC/Universal channels through QAM, or are they encrypted? We've never had cable, so I'm unfamiliar with Comcast details.

It's rare to see good analog OTA reception but poor digital OTA reception. My experience is that digital is much more forgiving (to a certain point, of course). You may want to see if you have splitters or amplifiers that are old or too narrow-band. Try to get 1GHz components.

The cable channels like CNBC, MSNBC or USAHD are encrypted. You need the Digital Starter package to get those, and unless your TV has a cable card slot, you will need a set-top box. One for each TV.

Advice needed on clear QAM in Mountain View Comcast -

Our OTA reception of digital TV is poor compared to our analog reception, which will be gone in Feb 2009.

Now I have to choose between getting a better antenna or using Comcast or a satellite, just to get better OTA channels, our main concern, as we don't watch a lot of TV, and are content with the PBS offerings.

At present, I'm thinking of getting Comcast to improve reception of OTA channels, which I gather "Limited Basic" will do. However, my wife would also like to watch better coverage of the Olympics , which I believe will be carried on CNBC, MSNBC, and USA.

Our set has a QAM tuner. If I order "Limited Basic" - mostly the OTA channels - will I be able to get MSNBC and the other NBC/Universal channels through QAM, or are they encrypted? We've never had cable, so I'm unfamiliar with Comcast details.You're a prime candidate to get a new customer promotional discount. You should be able to get Digital Starter for $30/mo for 6 months. Regular price is $57/mo. DVR (presumably HD) is $14/mo. You can probably get a crummy SD DVR for free.

- Mike

It's rare to see good analog OTA reception but poor digital OTA reception. .
Don't forget than many stations are broadcasting OTA analog and OTA digital on very different frequencies.

We're getting reception pretty much in line with the predicted signal strength from tvfool - and it gets no better after the transition.

I get KGO analog (CH 7) clear as a bell, never any problems, but absolutely nothing for KGO digital - the set doesn't see anything, and I've tried repeatedly. The predicted current KGO digital signal strength at our location is lower than the predicted current analog, and the predicted strength on KGO after transition, when it moves back to VHF, is even lower than KGO digital is today - and I'd love to know why - TVfool only gives numbers, not reasons.

We get KNTV analog (CH 11) and digital perfectly, and KPIX (CH 5) analog perfectly and KPIX digital most of the time. KQED analog (CH 9) is ok (but antenna orientation sensitive) and KQED digitals are fine till after dark, when they all usually, but not always, detertiorate from no breakup to unwatchable on all subchannels). KTEH analog (CH 54) is generally poor, but KTEH digital is generally a bit more reliable than KQED.

Equally odd are KTVU and KRON, where analog (Ch 2 and 4) suffers badly from what may be multipath, but the digitals are rock solid.

KCSM comes in completely reliably digital, and not at all analog. 26 is generally good in digital, and unwatchable in analog.

I realize that for many of these, the analog and digital are on widely different frequencies, but some are on almost adjacent frequencies.

We are in the flatlands, with no tall buildings in the way. The antenna was here we bought the place in 1991. We've used an original model 25" Sony XBR, recently replaced by a Pioneer 5010. The two sets show almost identical analog reception on the same antenna, although that is a matter of recollection - they've never been side-by-side. There are two drops from the antenna (that I am aware of - it's an old house), and the one by the Pioneer has a Radio Shack distribution amp to serve the TV and a VCR

It appears likely that we are simply marginal on many of the current digital channels and thus atmospherics (and possibly birds on the antenna) are probably affecting our reception. If it were bandwidth limited by wiring, I'd expect to see similar problems on all channels, and not what we've been seeing.

Sorry if there is another topic on this, I don't monitor the Comcast forums usually.

Last November my mom in Orinda got a new LG flat screen TV with a built in QAM tuner. When I ran the full scan we were pleased to find many digital streams (including HD) from the local OTAs.

When I visited last week I was surprised to find NO clear QAM channels remaining. Nada, zip. Also noticed that analog signal for OTA and other basic cable stations varies wildly in quality from day to day. FYI all interior wiring still looks good.

Anyone else in the Lamorinda area have issues here? Would a truck roll help?

EDIT: the cable service is expanded basic, no digital.

Don't forget than many stations are broadcasting OTA analog and OTA digital on very different frequencies.

We're getting reception pretty much in line with the predicted signal strength from tvfool - and it gets no better after the transition.

I get KGO analog (CH 7) clear as a bell, never any problems, but absolutely nothing for KGO digital - the set doesn't see anything, and I've tried repeatedly. The predicted current KGO digital signal strength at our location is lower than the predicted current analog, and the predicted strength on KGO after transition, when it moves back to VHF, is even lower than KGO digital is today - and I'd love to know why - TVfool only gives numbers, not reasons.

We get KNTV analog (CH 11) and digital perfectly, and KPIX (CH 5) analog perfectly and KPIX digital most of the time. KQED analog (CH 9) is ok (but antenna orientation sensitive) and KQED digitals are fine till after dark, when they all usually, but not always, detertiorate from no breakup to unwatchable on all subchannels). KTEH analog (CH 54) is generally poor, but KTEH digital is generally a bit more reliable than KQED.

Equally odd are KTVU and KRON, where analog (Ch 2 and 4) suffers badly from what may be multipath, but the digitals are rock solid.

KCSM comes in completely reliably digital, and not at all analog. 26 is generally good in digital, and unwatchable in analog.

I realize that for many of these, the analog and digital are on widely different frequencies, but some are on almost adjacent frequencies.

We are in the flatlands, with no tall buildings in the way. The antenna was here we bought the place in 1991. We've used an original model 25" Sony XBR, recently replaced by a Pioneer 5010. The two sets show almost identical analog reception on the same antenna, although that is a matter of recollection - they've never been side-by-side. There are two drops from the antenna (that I am aware of - it's an old house), and the one by the Pioneer has a Radio Shack distribution amp to serve the TV and a VCR

It appears likely that we are simply marginal on many of the current digital channels and thus atmospherics (and possibly birds on the antenna) are probably affecting our reception. If it were bandwidth limited by wiring, I'd expect to see similar problems on all channels, and not what we've been seeing.

I have a Pioneer 5080, and I find their QAM tuner lacking. It is very easily overloaded, and it is not that sensitive. I have two Samsung LCD's that have better QAM tuners. I haven't really compared the terrestrial tuners yet, but I won't be surprised if Pioneer's is not that great.

Make sure that your distribution amp is not sending too much signal to your Pioneer.

Digital broadcasts work very differently than analog. You don't need very strong signals. As long as the signal is above a certain threshold, it is perfect. You may even want to try a cheap indoor antenna and see if you can pick up those OTA digital channels. It works for me.

When I visited last week I was surprised to find NO clear QAM channels remaining.

You probably need to rescan.

You probably need to rescan.

Uh, that was the First thing I did.

Anyone in the Lamorinda area know of any changes implemented since last November? The comcast.com teflon coated website is deflecting my inquiries.

I have a Pioneer 5080, and I find their QAM tuner lacking. It is very easily overloaded, and it is not that sensitive. I have two Samsung LCD's that have better QAM tuners. I haven't really compared the terrestrial tuners yet, but I won't be surprised if Pioneer's is not that great.

Make sure that your distribution amp is not sending too much signal to your Pioneer.

Digital broadcasts work very differently than analog. You don't need very strong signals. As long as the signal is above a certain threshold, it is perfect. You may even want to try a cheap indoor antenna and see if you can pick up those OTA digital channels. It works for me.

clau,

I'm aware of the difference between digital transmission and analog, although it's not my area of expertise.

At present, the Pioneer is showing signal strengths from my rooftop OTA antenna as follows:

2.1 - 38 (out of 100)
4.1 - 30
5.1 - 0, no reception at present
7 digital has never been tunable
9.x - all 0, no reception at present
11.x - 50
36.x - varies between 57 and 61, apparently sampled every second
43.x - 30
54.x - varies between 30 and 42, mostly between 38 and 42

Both 9.x and 5.x are usually ok in the daytime, and when received, have an indicated signal strength of around 26 if I recall correctly. 54.x is working tonight without break-up, but it often goes away at night.

All the others above have been rock steady, and they all show signal strengths at what appear to be reasonable values. The only odd one is 43.x, which has never had even a breakup, but has a pretty low signal strength. At present, none of the stations above is showing any breakup, even though breakup is common on 54.x at night.

I've attached below my TVfool signal strength predictions. They don't always match my reception, for digital, but they are pretty accurate for analog. As I don't have a rotator, some of the oddities are surely due to antenna orientation, but some - like the complete inability to tune 7.x, remain puzzling.

Given these numbers, it seems reasonable to assume that the tuner is not being overloaded.

As to the distribution amp, I have no idea what to measure, but I would assume that if it overloads any channel, it would be the strongest, and they look far from overloaded when you look at the actual signal strength numbers.

I plan to give an indoor UHF antenna a try, and will probably by a converter box, both to compare with the Pioneer and rooftop antenna.

As I will be getting Comcast, I'd appreciate hearing more about you Pioneer's QAM problems, and how you deal with them.

The comcast.com teflon coated website is deflecting my inquiries.

My ISP is AT&T, and I've had a hell of a time getting any response from comcast.com when I try to get a channel list or a retail location. Are you talking about similar behavior, or something different?

clau,

I'm aware of the difference between digital transmission and analog, although it's not my area of expertise.

At present, the Pioneer is showing signal strengths from my rooftop OTA antenna as follows:

2.1 - 38 (out of 100)
4.1 - 30
5.1 - 0, no reception at present
7 digital has never been tunable
9.x - all 0, no reception at present
11.x - 50
36.x - varies between 57 and 61, apparently sampled every second
43.x - 30
54.x - varies between 30 and 42, mostly between 38 and 42

Both 9.x and 5.x are usually ok in the daytime, and when received, have an indicated signal strength of around 26 if I recall correctly. 54.x is working tonight without break-up, but it often goes away at night.

All the others above have been rock steady, and they all show signal strengths at what appear to be reasonable values. The only odd one is 43.x, which has never had even a breakup, but has a pretty low signal strength. At present, none of the stations above is showing any breakup, even though breakup is common on 54.x at night.

I've attached below my TVfool signal strength predictions. They don't always match my reception, for digital, but they are pretty accurate for analog. As I don't have a rotator, some of the oddities are surely due to antenna orientation, but some - like the complete inability to tune 7.x, remain puzzling.

Given these numbers, it seems reasonable to assume that the tuner is not being overloaded.

As to the distribution amp, I have no idea what to measure, but I would assume that if it overloads any channel, it would be the strongest, and they look far from overloaded when you look at the actual signal strength numbers.

I plan to give an indoor UHF antenna a try, and will probably by a converter box, both to compare with the Pioneer and rooftop antenna.

As I will be getting Comcast, I'd appreciate hearing more about you Pioneer's QAM problems, and how you deal with them.

I'm in Sunnyvale, and I can pick up 7-1 fine using an indoor antenna (Zenith Silver) on my Samsung 71F LCD TV.

The Pioneer 5080 is at the same place where I had a Panasonic plasma before. The Panasonic had no QAM reception issues, but the Pioneer would not pick up the strong QAM stations. I added a Motorola distribution amp to replace an older one, and I had to carefully adjust the levels via splitters to get the Pioneer to receive all the QAM channels. I had to add attenuators to get the Pioneer to work. The signal level shown when in digital is misleading: when it is overloaded, the levels reported are not correct.

A good source is silicondust.com. They have a page showing all the OTA and QAM channels in your area, with the physical frequencies. You need to enter your zip code.

The CableCard feature on your Pioneer is very useful. Saves you the rental fee for a HD STB.

I'm in Sunnyvale, and I can pick up 7-1 fine using an indoor antenna (Zenith Silver) on my Samsung 71F LCD TV.
Were you able to get it that way on your Pioneer? Are you on the ground floor?

The signal level shown when in digital is misleading: when it is overloaded, the levels reported are not correct.What were the signal strength readings for the overloaded channels, and by way of comparison, what were you seeing for non-overloaded channels?

Thanks!

Were you able to get it that way on your Pioneer? Are you on the ground floor?

My Pioneer has the outdoor antenna hooked up to it, and it receives fine. The Samsung is on a second story.



What were the signal strength readings for the overloaded channels, and by way of comparison, what were you seeing for non-overloaded channels?

Thanks!

The signals are not overloading anymore. When they were, the readings were not high. The strengths run form 30's to 80's on the QAM tuner on my Samsung now. I think the Pioneer was reporting similar numbers. I don't think the Pioneer reports signal strengths when the CableCard is used, which is what I have.

My ISP is AT&T, and I've had a hell of a time getting any response from comcast.com when I try to get a channel list or a retail location. Are you talking about similar behavior, or something different?
Actually, I was speaking metaphorically. :D
I did get a good channel lineup online, but the downloadable one is three years old :mad: .
But I digress.
I haven't found anything yet on their 'digital' conversion plans or why removing simultaneous distribution of OTA digital was a good thing for customers.
Oh, wait, that's right. We need dozens of more digital Crap Channels (Spike 2, MTV 6, VH1 Classic Classic, etc) to encourage basic (analog) customers to upgrade. Right.

C'mon Lamorinda customers, please Speak Up!
Do you get any clear QAM channels?

The "signal level" meter on digital TV's is a signal quality meter, not a signal strength meter. A too-strong signal, or any signal with strong multipath, will give an unwatchable picture and a low "signal level" indication on a digital TV's meter regardless of the signal amplitude.

The Chron and other pubs reviewed the following mini-series pretty high. All should be in HD:

- "Earth: The Biography" (National Geographical channel)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/11/DDIR11KR33.DTL&hw=earth&sn=002&sc=870

- "Generation Kill" (HBO)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/11/DD9K11MTRE.DTL&hw=hbo&sn=004&sc=546

The Chron and other pubs reviewed the following mini-series pretty high. All should be in HD:

- "Earth: The Biography" (National Geographical channel)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/11/DDIR11KR33.DTL&hw=earth&sn=002&sc=870

- "Generation Kill" (HBO)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/11/DD9K11MTRE.DTL&hw=hbo&sn=004&sc=546

Fantastic program with great visuals and much knowledge.

Anyone in San Francisco experience much fireflies due to signal compression? With tonight's program just completed, I encourage folks to let Comcast know how their signal needs significant improvement.

I got a letter from Comcast today saying that they will be dropping all my HD channels except for local networks on Aug 15. I have Limited Basic and Digital Classic. They are offering Digital Standard at a special price for 12 months.

Anyone else seeing this?

i got this letter today, too. really, quite a surprise to receive. (i thought i'd be grandfathered into my current setup indefinitely)

they are offering me $33/mo for 12 months. i presume that is the same offer you received? what i wonder is if i will have to pay $7 for my HD box or if that is part of the Digital Standard package.

if the box is included, i'll take it as a fair concession and set a reminder on my calendar for aug 2009 to revisit DTV, etc. if not, then the letter is bit incorrect in saying that i'll get more for less.


I got a letter from Comcast today saying that they will be dropping all my HD channels except for local networks on Aug 15. I have Limited Basic and Digital Classic. They are offering Digital Standard at a special price for 12 months.

Anyone else seeing this?

The $7 fee for HDTV is separate from the charges for the various Digital packages. At $33/mo, the Standard Digital package is $16 more than the Digital Classic package. If Comcast continue these fee hikes, we'll have to take a closer look at DirecTV...

Does that $33 include Standard Cable and the Digital Starter HD channels? IOW, what the old Limited Basic + Digital Classic was/is?

LOL...not that it really matters to me much anyhow, it's only 5.5 mos until 2009 and we still only have 11 HD channels here. :rolleyes::D

Meanwhile, watched Stargate:Atlantis on one of the 90-something HD channels I get from DirecTV tonight, and the PQ on this show is downright stunning, just a spectacular image, crystal clear, no breakup, with beard-stubble-counting detail, a real HD showcase. :)

Does that $33 include Standard Cable and the Digital Starter HD channels? IOW, what the old Limited Basic + Digital Classic was/is?
...I believe that's correct, but I'm going down to my local office to clarify what channels Digital Standard actually gives me. For example, Digital Classic has Music Choice, but does Digital Standard or am I going to need Digital Standard + Digital Classic for that?

hiker, i'd appreciate you keeping us posted on what you learn. from the letter we received, i definitely get the impression that the package offered includes standard cable (ie, SD versions of ESPN, CNN, etc. which are of no use to me since i'm down to one TV these days with the Comcast box). i hope the HD box is included (we'll see when i have time to call them...figure i might as well put it off until the end of the month so i can maximize this 12 months at 33/mo deal)


I believe that's correct, but I'm going down to my local office to clarify what channels Digital Standard actually gives me. For example, Digital Classic has Music Choice, but does Digital Standard or am I going to need Digital Standard + Digital Classic for that?

Curious if anyone lives in the South San Francisco (or Daly City/Pacifica) has any thoughts on whether Comcast or Direct TV is a better choice for hd digital television in this portion of the bay area. Driving through my neighborhood, I do see a lot of satellite dishes, but I currently subscribe to Comcast for high speed internet (since there really is no other option) so getting double or triple play package is always an option.

I read on this thread that I should get clear QAM HD channels even if I have only subscribed to basic cable (~$15/month). Well, I tried this on my new HDTV (Samsung LN46A530) I can only tune analog channels. Has comcast stopped transmitting clear QAM HD in some areas now? I am in West San Jose 95129, this area had the old A/B system.

I would like to hear what other people are seeing. I want to check here first, since I know what comcast will say - "get the $50+ package".

Im in 95117 and get all the local HD channels with the $13/month package.
well as of last night anyway.
if your tv has 2 coax inputs try the other one and scan the full cable
freqs not just cable high or digital.


I read on this thread that I should get clear QAM HD channels even if I have only subscribed to basic cable (~$15/month). Well, I tried this on my new HDTV (Samsung LN46A530) I can only tune analog channels. Has comcast stopped transmitting clear QAM HD in some areas now? I am in West San Jose 95129, this area had the old A/B system.

I would like to hear what other people are seeing. I want to check here first, since I know what comcast will say - "get the $50+ package".

Thanks. Yes, the other coax is worth a shot. With my old analog TV there were no channels on that one, so I haven't used it in a while...

I hope someone in 95129 can respond and add a data point.

Im in 95117 and get all the local HD channels with the $13/month package.
well as of last night anyway.
if your tv has 2 coax inputs try the other one and scan the full cable
freqs not just cable high or digital.

I actually meant the other coax input on your tv.
as some have 2 tuners, one that does ATSC and one that doesnt.
but if you have 2 wires coming in from comcast as well...

Thanks. Yes, the other coax is worth a shot. With my old analog TV there were no channels on that one, so I haven't used it in a while...

I hope someone in 95129 can respond and add a data point.

So I am obviously new here....I have been close to pulling the trigger on a new 50" Pioneer, but after reading about how unhappy everyone seems to be with comcast, I am starting to re-think my decision to buy an HD set.

I currently don't have an HD set at all and am using comcast basic cable ($13) with my Sony WEGA flat screen (which actually looks great for an SD picture). The vast majority of what I watch are the major networks and discovery channel.

My parents have direct tv at their place and it looks great to my eyes. Some channels are better than others, but still very good.

I guess what I don't want to do is spend $3000+ on a TV, plus the $70 for comcast (digital starter plus box) to be disappointed and wish I would have stayed with what I have.

So is everyone here just very discerning or will I enjoy the above if I decide to make the purchase......or should I be concerned about the comcast quality. Basically, if I make the move to HD, I want it to look like HD, not a blurry version of it.

By the way, direct tv for me would be hard. Although I know FCC regs make provisions....I live in a rented condo and it would be hassle to let the owner know and then deal with the housing association which won't me to put a dish, not to mention running coax to the bedroom would be very difficult.

Thanks for any advice anyone can provide.

I currently don't have an HD set at all and am using comcast basic cable ($13) with my Sony WEGA flat screen (which actually looks great for an SD picture). The vast majority of what I watch are the major networks and discovery channel.

You do not need to pay Comcast $70/month for the broadcast HD channels. I have HDTV and TiVo S3s with Comcast limited basic only. Even without HDTV, HD programs down converted to SD look much better than SD programs.

the PQ isn't terrible, it just isn't as good as it was 6-7 months ago.

most of the time it looks pretty good, just in certain scenes (fast motion/scene changes) it breaks up.

worst you can do is try it for 1 month. that's the nice thing about cable - no equipment to buy, no contracts. if you hate it, then you can try satellite...

the PQ isn't terrible, it just isn't as good as it was 6-7 months ago.

most of the time it looks pretty good, just in certain scenes (fast motion/scene changes) it breaks up.

worst you can do is try it for 1 month. that's the nice thing about cable - no equipment to buy, no contracts. if you hate it, then you can try satellite...

Thanks for the input. It is mostly the cost of the set I am worried about and whether after I see the picture if I will be sorry I purchased the set. Satellite would be pretty difficult to do.

Thanks.

versus standard def??

no you will NOT be disappointed.

channels 702-712 (local HD channels) are not compressed.
Comcast Sportsnet is not compressed.

if you like sports you definitely will enjoy them in HD

You do not need to pay Comcast $70/month for the broadcast HD channels. I have HDTV and TiVo S3s with Comcast limited basic only. Even without HDTV, HD programs down converted to SD look much better than SD programs.

Thanks for the information. I am pretty new to the whole HD programming thing, especially with cable.

So I did a little looking at the TiVo. Is this basically an alternative to comcast's box that they would lease me. It looks like I would need a cable card or two as well.

I am a little confused regarding the comcast limited basic.... does your response mean that my current feed has broadcast HD channels that the Tivo unit could use? Would the comcast box or some other box be able to use these without buying the expensive $57 dollar package?

If there is an easy link or site you would like to refer me to rather than answering all the questions, I understand.

I am just having a hard time understanding all of comcasts different services, what is available with what subscription, and alternatives I might have.

Thanks for the info so far.

I am a little confused regarding the comcast limited basic.... does your response mean that my current feed has broadcast HD channels that the Tivo unit could use? Would the comcast box or some other box be able to use these without buying the expensive $57 dollar package?

If you're interested in the broadcast HD channels only, limited basic is all you need. Just buy a HDTV and plug it in. You do not need any additional equipment.

If you want a DVR with limited basic, TiVo is probably your best choice because Comcast will not rent a DVR to you without expanded basic.

Curious if anyone lives in the South San Francisco (or Daly City/Pacifica) has any thoughts on whether Comcast or Direct TV is a better choice for hd digital television in this portion of the bay area. Driving through my neighborhood, I do see a lot of satellite dishes, but I currently subscribe to Comcast for high speed internet (since there really is no other option) so getting double or triple play package is always an option.

I highly recommend Dish Network's HD package. You get 45 HD channels for just $29.95 a month. I have that, plus the local channels (20 SD channels and 4 HD - channels 2, 5, 7 and 11) and the great Vip622 DVR for just $47 a month. You can't beat it! Oh, and if you go with paperless billing you get 5 channels of Cinemax for 1 penny for a year. Check the Dish Network website for all details: http://www.dishnetwork.com/

Larry
SF

You do not need to pay Comcast $70/month for the broadcast HD channels. I have HDTV and TiVo S3s with Comcast limited basic only. Even without HDTV, HD programs down converted to SD look much better than SD programs.

That depends on where you live. In west san jose apparently you need a digital subscription to receive HD on QAM. :(

After mucking around with tuning with my new hdtv for a few days, that is the conclusion I have come to.

If you're interested in the broadcast HD channels only, limited basic is all you need. Just buy a HDTV and plug it in. You do not need any additional equipment.

If you want a DVR with limited basic, TiVo is probably your best choice because Comcast will not rent a DVR to you without expanded basic.

I have a data point to the contrary. ^^

I highly recommend Dish Network's HD package. You get 45 HD channels for just $29.95 a month. I have that, plus the local channels (20 SD channels and 4 HD - channels 2, 5, 7 and 11) and the great Vip622 DVR for just $47 a month. You can't beat it! Oh, and if you go with paperless billing you get 5 channels of Cinemax for 1 penny for a year. Check the Dish Network website for all details: http://www.dishnetwork.com/

Larry
SF

I had the same thought when
I got a letter on 7/15 from Comcast saying that they will be dropping all my HD channels except for local networks on Aug 15. I have Limited Basic +Digital Classic. They are offering Digital Standard at a $33 special price for 12 months.

That Dish $29.95 "HD Only(45 channels)" price is only good until 02/2009 when it advertised.
But, Dish will have a new packages starting 8/1, looks like
the current "HD Only" will be "TurboHD Gold" for $39.99:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/141974-dish-network-meets-100-hd-channel-mark-ahead-schedule.html

http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=26587&d=1215706973

That depends on where you live. In west san jose apparently you need a digital subscription to receive HD on QAM. :(

After mucking around with tuning with my new hdtv for a few days, that is the conclusion I have come to.

That strikes me as very odd. Might the overall signal strength getting to your new TV be so weak that it isn't getting a good enough quality digital signal to tune it in? I'm not in your ZIP, but when I initially put my Sammy in my bedroom a couple weeks ago, I was only able to get KICU in digital, but I found out that was because I was behind 4 splits. Our living room feed was behind only 1 split and when I moved the TV there, I got all the local network digital feeds. I ended up putting a Motorola booster at the drop so that I could get enough signal to my bedroom and now I get all the local digital broadcasts there.

It's so odd and contrary to so many observations in this thread that it's almost certainly wrong. ;)

I posted a few months back about MTV-HD disappearing from my system. I get zero signal on that channel. Comcast support insisted this is something they needed to send a tech out on. I didn't have anyone around the house during the day, and the channel is not that important to me, so I just hoped it would go away. It hasn't. Tonight I dialed up the online chat support, and they told me that MTV-HD is no longer available "in my area."

Is this correct? I presume not. Does anyone have a recommendation as to how best to get Comcast off their backside? They want to approach is like a customer equipment problem, but it clearly must have something to do with the local headend. The channel is missing on both my cable box (6412) and my cablecard equipped TV.

Tom

That depends on where you live. In west san jose apparently you need a digital subscription to receive HD on QAM. :(

After mucking around with tuning with my new hdtv for a few days, that is the conclusion I have come to.

Either your TV's QAM tuner is broken, or the signal is too weak or blocked by a filter. I think the probability of having encrypted broadcast channels is less than winning a lottery.

After scanning for the digital channels, your TV should be able to pick up many hundreds of those channels. The TV should be able to display the signal quality of all of those channels, even for the encrypted ones.

Downtown Santa Rosa actually went live last night with the HD channels!

TNTHD, MojoHD, TNTHD, A&E HD, History HD, etc...

And OnDemand finally too.

Originally Posted by canyontrip
That depends on where you live. In west san jose apparently you need a digital subscription to receive HD on QAM.



That strikes me as very odd. Might the overall signal strength getting to your new TV be so weak that it isn't getting a good enough quality digital signal to tune it in? I'm not in your ZIP, but when I initially put my Sammy in my bedroom a couple weeks ago, I was only able to get KICU in digital, but I found out that was because I was behind 4 splits. Our living room feed was behind only 1 split and when I moved the TV there, I got all the local network digital feeds. I ended up putting a Motorola booster at the drop so that I could get enough signal to my bedroom and now I get all the local digital broadcasts there.

I only have one splitter from where it enters the house to the tv. I will try removing that one too to see if it makes a difference.

Originally Posted by canyontrip
That depends on where you live. In west san jose apparently you need a digital subscription to receive HD on QAM.

That strikes me as very odd. Might the overall signal strength getting to your new TV be so weak that it isn't getting a good enough quality digital signal to tune it in? I'm not in your ZIP, but when I initially put my Sammy in my bedroom a couple weeks ago, I was only able to get KICU in digital, but I found out that was because I was behind 4 splits. Our living room feed was behind only 1 split and when I moved the TV there, I got all the local network digital feeds. I ended up putting a Motorola booster at the drop so that I could get enough signal to my bedroom and now I get all the local digital broadcasts there.

Either your TV's QAM tuner is broken, or the signal is too weak or blocked by a filter. I think the probability of having encrypted broadcast channels is less than winning a lottery.

After scanning for the digital channels, your TV should be able to pick up many hundreds of those channels. The TV should be able to display the signal quality of all of those channels, even for the encrypted ones.

What test can I do to test if the QAM tuner is broken? I am already going to try to remove the one splitter I have in the line. I was able to tune in a few OTA digital channels (some in HD too). I thought that meant that the tuner in the TV was ok.

After tuning, my TV (samsung) does not pick up *ANY* digital channels.

BTW, I am in zip 95129.

What test can I do to test if the QAM tuner is broken? I am already going to try to remove the one splitter I have in the line. I was able to tune in a few OTA digital channels (some in HD too). I thought that meant that the tuner in the TV was ok.

After tuning, my TV (samsung) does not pick up *ANY* digital channels.

BTW, I am in zip 95129.

If you really want to save yourself some time, you can get a digital receiver (HD or non-HD) from comcast and hook it up to avoid any TV related issue. You can always return the receiver afterwards.

What test can I do to test if the QAM tuner is broken? I am already going to try to remove the one splitter I have in the line. I was able to tune in a few OTA digital channels (some in HD too). I thought that meant that the tuner in the TV was ok.

After tuning, my TV (samsung) does not pick up *ANY* digital channels.

BTW, I am in zip 95129.

Are you sure you have selected "Cable" in the Setup/Tuner menu? You should see the choice to scan digital channels and analog channels. Use "Std" for frequency plan, and let it scan. It will take more than 10 minutes.

Originally Posted by canyontrip View Post
What test can I do to test if the QAM tuner is broken? I am already going to try to remove the one splitter I have in the line. I was able to tune in a few OTA digital channels (some in HD too). I thought that meant that the tuner in the TV was ok.

After tuning, my TV (samsung) does not pick up *ANY* digital channels.

BTW, I am in zip 95129.

Are you sure you have selected "Cable" in the Setup/Tuner menu? You should see the choice to scan digital channels and analog channels. Use "Std" for frequency plan, and let it scan. It will take more than 10 minutes.

Yes, I did choose cable and std from the setup menu. It did not give me a choice to select analog or digital. Attached is a capture of the tuning menu from the manual.

If you really want to save yourself some time, you can get a digital receiver (HD or non-HD) from comcast and hook it up to avoid any TV related issue. You can always return the receiver afterwards.

OK thanks. I will keep that in mind as an option, if I cant think of anything else.

...and you did connect the Comcast cable to the cable rf input on the Sammy, right?

Downtown Santa Rosa actually went live last night with the HD channels!

TNTHD, MojoHD, TNTHD, A&E HD, History HD, etc...

And OnDemand finally too.

I was actually watching Letterman right when it happened - just about 12:30 AM. Had to re-program the TiVo to map to the new lineup, and it took a little while for the CableCard to tune the new channels, but it was done by about 2 AM. I now have 33 HD channels instead of 8.:D

What's funny, is I was at the Wednesday Night Market, and stopped by the Comcast booth to ask 'em why, even though I got a letter in the mail over a month ago saying it would happen within 15 days, it hadn't yet. Didn't really get a good answer, but then the channels finally got turned on that night. Coincidence? Hmm ...

Yes, I did choose cable and std from the setup menu. It did not give me a choice to select analog or digital. Attached is a capture of the tuning menu from the manual.

You only get 2 cable analog channels?

Edit: Sorry, didn't realize that your image is from the manual. How many cable analog channels are you getting? Are you getting channels like ESPN (higher than channel 13)?

...and you did connect the Comcast cable to the cable rf input on the Sammy, right?

Yup. It was able to find the analog channels.

You only get 2 cable analog channels?

Edit: Sorry, didn't realize that your image is from the manual. How many cable analog channels are you getting? Are you getting channels like ESPN (higher than channel 13)?

These are the analog channels I receive (same as the old analog TV):
2
KTVU-2 (FOX)
3
KNTV-11 (NBC)
4
KRON-4 (My Network)
5
KPIX-5 (CBS)
6
KICU-36 (IND)
7
KGO-7 (ABC)
8
KTSF-26 (IND)
9
KQED-9 (PBS)
10
KTEH-54 (PBS)
12
KBCW-44 (CW)
13
KBWB-20 (IND)
14
KDTV-14 (UNI)
15
Community Channel
16
KKPX-65 (ION)
17
KCSM-60 (PBS)
18
KSTS-48 (TLMD)
19
KTNC-42
20
KFSF-66 (TF)
21
KCNS-38 (IND)
22
C-SPAN
News & Info
24
KSBW-8 (NBC)
25
KTLN-68 (IND)
26
Civic Center TV
26
Campbell Government Channel (Campbell Only)
27
CCN 1
28
CCN 2
29
The Discovery Channel
30
Leased Access (All other hours)
31
Home Shopping Network
32
KMTP-32 (IND)
33
WGN
Sports
34
QVC
71
TRAVEL
77
Access Television Network

and a few more in the 70s..

These are the analog channels I receive (same as the old analog TV):
2
KTVU-2 (FOX)
3
KNTV-11 (NBC)
4
KRON-4 (My Network)
5
KPIX-5 (CBS)
6
KICU-36 (IND)
7
KGO-7 (ABC)
8
KTSF-26 (IND)
9
KQED-9 (PBS)
10
KTEH-54 (PBS)
12
KBCW-44 (CW)
13
KBWB-20 (IND)
14
KDTV-14 (UNI)
15
Community Channel
16
KKPX-65 (ION)
17
KCSM-60 (PBS)
18
KSTS-48 (TLMD)
19
KTNC-42
20
KFSF-66 (TF)
21
KCNS-38 (IND)
22
C-SPAN
News & Info
24
KSBW-8 (NBC)
25
KTLN-68 (IND)
26
Civic Center TV
26
Campbell Government Channel (Campbell Only)
27
CCN 1
28
CCN 2
29
The Discovery Channel
30
Leased Access (All other hours)
31
Home Shopping Network
32
KMTP-32 (IND)
33
WGN
Sports
34
QVC
71
TRAVEL
77
Access Television Network

and a few more in the 70s..

Here are the channels you are supposed to receive in your zip code:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=95129

Try this. There are a couple of HD channels at 80. Punch in 80 on your Samsung remote, and hit enter. It will try to look for anything in that physical channel. Then check your channel list and see it the TV has found KGO-HD or KQED-HD. They may show up as 7-1 and 9-1, respectively.

Here are the channels you are supposed to receive in your zip code:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui?Cmd=LocationProgramsWeb&Country=US&Postcode=95129

Try this. There are a couple of HD channels at 80. Punch in 80 on your Samsung remote, and hit enter. It will try to look for anything in that physical channel. Then check your channel list and see it the TV has found KGO-HD or KQED-HD. They may show up as 7-1 and 9-1, respectively.

Success finally! I removed the one splitter that I had in the line and was able to pull in a bunch (100ish, I think) of digital channels including HD. The channels did not exactly match the ones on silicondust web site but that's okay. Still trying to figure out what the "unknown" channels are. I am amazed that a splitter makes such a vast difference for the worse.

Thanks to all for all the suggestions. Really appreciate it.

Now on to search for a good rf splitter (I need a splitter to feed the tivo). Any recommendations?

The splitter should say "5-1000mhz" (1Ghz), otherwise nothing special, assuming your signal is good. If one splitter messes it up that bad, you should have a Comcast tech come fix it because that is not right. You might just be using an old CATV splitter that doesn't pass the higher freqs (500Mhz+).

Success finally! I removed the one splitter that I had in the line and was able to pull in a bunch (100ish, I think) of digital channels including HD. The channels did not exactly match the ones on silicondust web site but that's okay. Still trying to figure out what the "unknown" channels are. I am amazed that a splitter makes such a vast difference for the worse.

Thanks to all for all the suggestions. Really appreciate it.

Now on to search for a good rf splitter (I need a splitter to feed the tivo). Any recommendations?

You can pick up nice splitters from Central Computers. They have 4 or 5 stores in the Bay Area. Home Depot and Lowes also carry reasonably good splitters. Get ones that are rated at 1GHz or higher.

A side benefit of a clear QAM tuner is that it can pick up your neighbors' On-Demand movies. Those won't match the silicondust site's listings. Also, those listings have physical channel numbers, and your TV use virtual channel numbers when possible.

Tom, I too reported this in this thread, starting a few months ago. I am having the same problem. Calling Comcast they told me my box was bad or they would need to send a tech out. My box was old so I swapped it for a DCH and the day I hooked it up, I was receiving MHD... Then a few days later the channel was out again. Just says "This channel should be available shortly" or whatever that message is..

The weird thing is the channel DOES come in sometimes. I've been able to tune it twice out of maybe 30 different days/times trying..

Anyway, frustrated w/Comcast and I guess I'll schedule a truck roll when I have time for them to look at the problem. Highly doubtful it's anything w/my end as the channel worked up until the 3packing started just fine.

I posted a few months back about MTV-HD disappearing from my system. I get zero signal on that channel. Comcast support insisted this is something they needed to send a tech out on. I didn't have anyone around the house during the day, and the channel is not that important to me, so I just hoped it would go away. It hasn't. Tonight I dialed up the online chat support, and they told me that MTV-HD is no longer available "in my area."

Is this correct? I presume not. Does anyone have a recommendation as to how best to get Comcast off their backside? They want to approach is like a customer equipment problem, but it clearly must have something to do with the local headend. The channel is missing on both my cable box (6412) and my cablecard equipped TV.

Tom

Jopowee and obsessed, welcome to the Santa Rosa HD party! :)

Great to hear another area has been upgraded. Who is still waiting for the upgrade at this point?

Quick question for the group, does anyone know why HBO doesn't offer their On Demand programming in HD?

I've had On Demand for a month now and all the premiums have HD feeds except HBO. All I want is to watch Drama from Entourage in glorious HD. Is that too much to ask.

well this sucks. the yankees a's game is on HD on TBS but yay for local blackouts and the SD version on KICU.

well this sucks. the yankees a's game is on HD on TBS but yay for local blackouts and the SD version on KICU.So far the HD version is coming through fine on DirecTV but not Comcast. I saw the reverse problem a couple of weeks ago with WGN SD (thread here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132543)). :confused:

sooooo...anyone know if there planning to add more channels to the line up anytime soon...

I posted this on the Comcast HD On Demand forum too... just because I've about had it.

RANT MODE= ON

Is Comcrap ever going to be competitive with DirecTV's fighting events? I am paying more than DirecTV customers which comcast has less picture quality and completely no HD PPV live fighting events. I'm not even talking about Sunday Ticket stuff. It's pretty lame that I have to watch all the fights at my brother's home who has DirecTV. I pay him to order the fights for my family to come over and watch (UFC, boxing, etc). I also watched the Affliction fight on SpikeTV HD over at their house too, but it's not going to be free next time.

DirecTV should have a commercial showing Comcast customers going over to DirecTV people's homes to watch high quality un-recompressed channels and PPV/channels that dont exist on Comcast.

RANT MODE= OFF

Hmm, just noticed the 11:00 news on NBC11 is in HD... did that just start today?

Looks like it.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/22/nbc11-gives-bay-area-residents-local-news-in-hd/

I posted this on the Comcast HD On Demand forum too... just because I've about had it.

RANT MODE= ON

Is Comcrap ever going to be competitive with DirecTV's fighting events? I am paying more than DirecTV customers which comcast has less picture quality and completely no HD PPV live fighting events. I'm not even talking about Sunday Ticket stuff. It's pretty lame that I have to watch all the fights at my brother's home who has DirecTV. I pay him to order the fights for my family to come over and watch (UFC, boxing, etc). I also watched the Affliction fight on SpikeTV HD over at their house too, but it's not going to be free next time.

DirecTV should have a commercial showing Comcast customers going over to DirecTV people's homes to watch high quality un-recompressed channels and PPV/channels that dont exist on Comcast.

RANT MODE= OFF

In short - no. DirecTV is the upstart, so they work harder to pull customers away from cable. There is no reason as to why cable should suck so much programming wise compared with DirecTV, but I suspect if people keep leaving that they will eventually be forced to play catchup. Comcast thinks too much like a monopoly, which is bad if you are a Comcast shareholder.

Is there a list of the HD channels in Santa Rosa without a box (channels past 82 that are on my HDTV)? Called Comcast and they said 'there are no such channels' - assume they want you to buy the box. thanks

should be the same as every other place: just local channels in HD.

for anything else (in HD) you need either a box or a cable card.

Is there a list of the HD channels in Santa Rosa without a box (channels past 82 that are on my HDTV)? Called Comcast and they said 'there are no such channels' - assume they want you to buy the box. thanks

Its best to check http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdhomerun/channels

Put in your zip code and it will tell you the channel numbers for the unencrypted QAM channels. The list is mostly accurate, but not always. On your TV (if it has QAM) do a scan first and then compare the results to the channel list from the silicon dust site.

found this the other day, thought I would share

for those with Comcast HSI

http://speedtest.comcast.net

(me = 31mb down, 1500k up, on the San Jose server)

found this the other day, thought I would share

for those with Comcast HSI

http://speedtest.comcast.net

(me = 31mb down, 1500k up, on the San Jose server)
Thank you. I've been having signal to noise ratio trouble with my HSI, but it's much worse at night rather than during the daytime. Now I can use this sanctioned speed test site while the technician is present.

Ron

supposedly it's pretty much the only way to accurately test the new 50mb speeds.

(which are coming to our market... when??)

found this the other day, thought I would share

for those with Comcast HSI

http://speedtest.comcast.net

(me = 31mb down, 1500k up, on the San Jose server)
Been using that site a few times in the last month or so. The numbers below are typical since the upgrade was completed here.

San Jose:

DL - 32mb (32.897)
UL - 2900k (2.899)

Current modem readings,

Down
SNR 38.9dB
Power 4.2dBmV

Up
Power 51.0dBmV

That DL SNR number fluctuates, it's been as high as 49, 38 is the lowest it's been in the past month.

Griping Online? Comcast Hears and Talks Back

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/25/technology/25comcast.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Been using that site a few times in the last month or so. The numbers below are typical since the upgrade was completed here.

San Jose:

DL - 32mb (32.897)
UL - 2900k (2.899)

Current modem readings,

Down
SNR 38.9dB
Power 4.2dBmV

Up
Power 51.0dBmV

That DL SNR number fluctuates, it's been as high as 49, 38 is the lowest it's been in the past month.

Interesting. I don't think that speed tier is officially supported here. What kind of modem do you have? Can you tell me what config file it downloads?

Interesting. I don't think that speed tier is officially supported here. What kind of modem do you have? Can you tell me what config file it downloads?
Well, I don't believe that DL speed is sustainable, but I regularly get use of over 2mb up speed without any adverse effects when internet browsing. I've been meaning to try some large DLs to see what it does long term.

I'm not sure how to check the config, I've seen it referenced many times as a way to tell what your provisioned far, but don't know how to find it. The modem is a Moto SB5101 feeding a D-Link DIR655 router.

P.S. I'm officially paying for the 16/2 HSI tier.

Those are "Speed Boost" speeds. Even that test (apparently) isn't long enough to get out of "boost" and settle down to regular speed.

Standard 6/1 service "Boosts" to 30/1.5

I believe 16/2 service Boosts to 30/3.

After "boost" runs out (it's like the first 10-15MB of files, download... less for upload) it will settle down to normal speed.

30mbps is the max on DOCSIS 1.x by the way.

Yes, I'm sure it is. A solid 2mb+ upload is fairly impressive though - and that's with 2mb being used while also 2 people browsing and a third playing that online XBox Warcraft game. Could be the router is doing a good job as well. All I know is, since moving into the 21st with HSI, I've been pretty darn happy with the service.

On the TV side, I picked up the 3 missing locals in HD. Not bad for a total cost of $73 a month.

Griping Online? Comcast Hears and Talks Back

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/25/technology/25comcast.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Jim,

That is some article, maybe Mr. Germano was really serious about improving customer service. But did you read the posted comments about the article ??
Sad, really sad. Just goes to show you, it doesn't matter what Comcast tries to do to correct their problems there will always be those that will still bitch and moan that they are not doing enough or that it's just PR and nothing more and just blow it off. It's why I stopped, just didn't need the grief anymore. I don't know how Mr. J. does it, must really have thick skin, something I never developed ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I got a letter from Comcast today saying that they will be dropping all my HD channels except for local networks on Aug 15. I have Limited Basic and Digital Classic. They are offering Digital Standard at a special price for 12 months.

Anyone else seeing this?

Yup, I got this letter in the mail a couple of weeks ago and finally got around to calling them up. Comcast's left hand seriously doesn't know what its right hand is doing! :mad:

- I tell CSR I got this letter and would like to take them up on the $33 offer for Digital Standard and the guy says he's never heard of it.
- He checks for clarification from his supervisor and they have also never heard of this.
- He then tells me to take the letter into the customer service center, tells me they are open Mon-Sat.
- A note on the Comcast billing page tells me as of a few weeks ago my local (Santa Clara) customer service center, amongst a few others, is now closed on Saturdays! Good thing I remembered!

Has anyone else been able to get this offer? And if so, will they give you everthing in Std+Expanded basic+Digital Classic for $33? Or will they charge you extra for HD channels, etc? (The letter indicates that $33 covers everything).

Thanks!

Digital Starter + Digital Classic includes all the HD channels except the premiums.

According to the letter I received from Comcast, starting Aug 15, you'll need to upgrade to the Digital Standard package to get the HD channels that are now included in the Digital Classic package, e.g., Discovery, ESPN, CNN, HGTV, MOJO, etc...

Digital Starter + Digital Classic includes all the HD channels except the premiums.

According to the letter I received from Comcast, starting Aug 15, you'll need to upgrade to the Digital Standard package to get the HD channels that are now included in the Digital Classic package, e.g., Discovery, ESPN, CNN, HGTV, MOJO, etc...
I don't know what Digital Standard is, my area doesn't have it listed yet.

Digital Starter = Limited Basic (analog + ADS + HD) + Expanded Basic (analog + ADS + HD) + a few starter SD digital channels

Digital Classic = a bunch of SD digital channels + a few HD channels (NGC and one or 2 more channels)

I believe what they are trying to tell you is the HD channels you used to get with Digital Classic are now part of Digital Starter. Digital Standard might be some new name for Digital Starter + Digital Classic, I'm not sure. I just know that maybe 6 months back, most of the HD channels got moved from Digital Classic to Digital Starter, so you could no longer get just Limited Basic and Digital Classic (bypassing expanded basic) and expect to get most of the HD channels. Not everyone got the changes at the same time and some people were grandfathered but that appears to be ending.

Digital Starter + Digital Classic includes all the HD channels except the premiums.

Lineup card I got about 6 weeks ago. Haven't received a detailed price sheet other than a letter that mentions Limited Basic in Santa Rosa going down, and Expanded, Standard and Value going up.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5936/comcastfrontqv0.jpghttp://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1965/comcastbackyz8.jpg

I have Digital Classic but have gotten no such letter. I get all the HD channels except NFL and the premium movie channels.. Have to say I'll be a little pissed if they try to jerk me for more money. I already pay about $90/mo for cable and don't even get HBO or anything.... cripes I can get satellite for $10-20 less and get more channels.. Plus I buy their internet for $45/mo...

Interesting. Do you know what the cost of Digital Starter + Digital Classic is? The letter they sent out list the Digital Classic package for $33 @ month for 12 months, after that it's sure to go up!

Jim,

That is some article, maybe Mr. Germano was really serious about improving customer service. But did you read the posted comments about the article ??
Sad, really sad. Just goes to show you, it doesn't matter what Comcast tries to do to correct their problems there will always be those that will still bitch and moan that they are not doing enough or that it's just PR and nothing more and just blow it off. It's why I stopped, just didn't need the grief anymore. I don't know how Mr. J. does it, must really have thick skin, something I never developed ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Yes, interesting read, although I'm sure it was partially prompted by the negative press Comcast has been getting lately. Still, I think it's definitely a good thing.

I thought Germano was primarily a SF bay area honcho? The person in the article appeared to focused/located back east.

Interesting. Do you know what the cost of Digital Starter + Digital Classic is? The letter they sent out list the Digital Classic package for $33 @ month for 12 months, after that it's sure to go up!

I think this was discussed a few pages back, but is there any indication that rate is part of a Triple Play package? That $33 must be added to the Standard Cable rate, which in Santa Rosa is now $56, up from $49 a few months ago. At $89 a month it doesn't seem to be that great a deal.

The package I'm waiting to see would be an HD only offering like Dish does, although something tells me we'll never see that from Comcast.

For what it's worth, here in SR I haven't received any letter that mentions that $33 rate.

Interesting. Do you know what the cost of Digital Starter + Digital Classic is? The letter they sent out list the Digital Classic package for $33 @ month for 12 months, after that it's sure to go up!

Digital Classic package is $14.95...

I guess $33 is the promo price for Standard + Digital Classic.

Standard cable is $55.99
+ Digital Classic $14.95 = $70.94
So uh yes, it will go up by over double I guess..

edit: oops I was looking at last year's prices... everything went up $2-3..

Digital Classic package is $11.95...

I guess $33 is the promo price for Standard + Digital Classic.

Standard cable is $52.50
+ Digital Classic $11.95 = $64.45
So uh yes, it will go up by about double I guess..

Your numbers make more sense than mine, I think...this sort of thing is endemic to Comcast though, you never really know.

I thought Germano was primarily a SF bay area honcho? The person in the article appeared to focused/located back east.
Nope, that was his old job, he's been promoted, here's a link to his bio....http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/About/PressRoom/CorporateOverview/CableExecutives/RickGermano.html

Laters,
Mikef5

Lineup card I got about 6 weeks ago. Haven't received a detailed price sheet other than a letter that mentions Limited Basic in Santa Rosa going down, and Expanded, Standard and Value going up.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5936/comcastfrontqv0.jpghttp://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1965/comcastbackyz8.jpg

Holy cow Jim, half that card is red ( new channels ):eek:. Were you guys that far behind on total channels ??? No wonder you were always bitching about your channel lineup and deservedly so ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Here's a copy of the letter I received from Comcast.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3240/comcastrh2.jpg

Interesting Keenan because your card doesn't list Science HD and it's a new channel 756, added along with Food and TLC HD channels about 2-3 months ago. SciFi has been moved from Limited Basic HD to Digital Starter HD, different from the scan of the card I posted a few months ago. Comcast could obviously say it's a printing error and that it's Spectrum Marketing's fault.

Holy cow Jim, half that card is red ( new channels ):eek:. Were you guys that far behind on total channels ??? No wonder you were always bitching about your channel lineup and deservedly so ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Ya think?!! :p:D

Interesting Keenan because your card doesn't list Science HD and it's a new channel 756, added along with Food and TLC HD channels about 2-3 months ago. SciFi has been moved from Limited Basic HD to Digital Starter HD, different from the scan of the card I posted a few months ago. Comcast could obviously say it's a printing error and that it's Spectrum Marketing's fault.

I got the card about 6 weeks before the actual "light up day", and it was probably printed many weeks before that, so those channels no doubt were left off, I'm guessing anyhow.

Here's a copy of the letter I received from Comcast.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3240/comcastrh2.jpg

I wish they'd offer that here.


Mikef5, isn't this something that Comcast was supposed to be aiming for, the same channels, same packages, etc, across the various systems? Why can't I get that package?

Here's a copy of the letter I received from Comcast.[IMG]
What level do you have now? Digital Starter?

We have Limited Basic, Digital Classic and High Definition TV

What level do you have now? Digital Starter?

It would be nice if the Comcast website made any sort of sense with regards to packages and channel lineups. The site for my area lists a Digital Starter with a link to "channel lineup", click the link, use the drop-down box, and of course, there is no Digital Starter lineup. :rolleyes:

And nothing called Digital Standard anywhere on the site.

We have Limited Basic, Digital Classic and High Definition TV

I see. I have Digital Classic but with the full "Standard" basic cable. I guess they are milking the Limited Basic people.

It would be nice if the Comcast website made any sort of sense with regards to packages and channel lineups. The site for my area lists a Digital Starter with a link to "channel lineup", click the link, use the drop-down box, and of course, there is no Digital Starter lineup. :rolleyes:

And nothing called Digital Standard anywhere on the site.
You know, instead of going to the website to decipher your lineup (and billing charges) what you should do is, take a bunch of scraps of paper, write some numbers on them, scatter them about the floor, then take some darts and throw them, blindfolded, at the paper and whatever you hit, that's your cable tv package! :cool:

I wish they'd offer that here.


Mikef5, isn't this something that Comcast was supposed to be aiming for, the same channels, same packages, etc, across the various systems? Why can't I get that package?
Jim,

Last I heard that was the goal, to get everything the same in all areas after all the upgrades were completed but that was a while ago and I haven't been privy to any info since my departure ( Yes, I drop by from time to time just to keep up to date and to make sure Santa Rosa got upgraded ) ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

You know, instead of going to the website to decipher your lineup (and billing charges) what you should do is, take a bunch of scraps of paper, write some numbers on them, scatter them about the floor, then take some darts and throw them, blindfolded, at the paper and whatever you hit, that's your cable tv package! :cool:

LOL

Jim,

Last I heard that was the goal, to get everything the same in all areas after all the upgrades were completed but that was a while ago and I haven't been privy to any info since my departure ( Yes, I drop by from time to time just to keep up to date and to make sure Santa Rosa got upgraded ) ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Well, to date, I'm still convinced obfuscation is a Comcast customer service policy. :p

So you don't talk to Mr. J anymore, you've banished us heathens to the dark netherworld of Comcast info? :D

With a TiVo S3, how long does it take for the guide data to fill in, all the new channels I got still show "to be announced".

This getting new channels thing is new to me. :p:D

With a TiVo S3, how long does it take for the guide data to fill in, all the new channels I got still show "to be announced".

This getting new channels thing is new to me. :p:D

Unless Tribune Media was told that the channels were going to go live on a different date, it will continue with "to be announced" until then. But I find it better to just report the issue at:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html

This typically takes them 5 business days to process it.

Unless Tribune Media was told that the channels were going to go live on a different date, it will continue with "to be announced" until then. But I find it better to just report the issue at:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html

This typically takes them 5 business days to process it.
Yes, before I did that though I was hoping some Santa Rosa folks might comment as some of them have had the channels for a few months now, which would indicate that TiVo already has the info, one would think anyways.

I haven't done a rescan, although I'm not sure that would really make a difference.

http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRelease/PressReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=782

Well, that's one way to get customers.

Hopefully those customers dont read all the angry, bitter complains from customers on these forums and other blogs.

http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRelease/PressReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=782

Well, that's one way to get customers.

I forget what the requirement was, but they gave away Nintendo DS game units a year ago too.

The premiums are sent from a separate fulfillment center (same one that mails out self install DCTs). Sometimes undeliverable items are forwarded to the local warehouses. Cordless phones, purchased modems, etc end up on the dock.

;)

I will say in response to the customer service/quality issues that there are now finally HD TVs with HDMI (and all the other connectors) in my test lab so that HD boxes can be 100% tested now. I caught a ready to issue DCH DVR that would not pass HDMI.

I forget what the requirement was, but they gave away Nintendo DS game units a year ago too.

The premiums are sent from a separate fulfillment center (same one that mails out self install DCTs). Sometimes undeliverable items are forwarded to the local warehouses. Cordless phones, purchased modems, etc end up on the dock.

;)

I will say in response to the customer service/quality issues that there are now finally HD TVs with HDMI (and all the other connectors) in my test lab so that HD boxes can be 100% tested now. I caught a ready to issue DCH DVR that would not pass HDMI.

My experience is that the system's folks on the engineering side are very competent, but the CSR's are so clueless on troubleshooting that you can pull your hair out.

I had a friend who had a Tivo HD that comcast couldn't provision with cablecard properly. They did something like 5 visits to his house with multiple types of cards and never got it to work. My friend was about to give up when I mentioned to him the comments posted here about needing an AO code set on the cablecard provisioning record in order for it to work. He did one last try and pleaded with the CSR to add the record. She said it wouldn't make a difference but finally he wore her out and she tried it. Bingo - the card came up just fine and the Tivo started working great. Adding thousands of new CSR's won't help if their internal systems don't enable them to solve the problem.

Another friend of mine had issues with trying to get a DCP501 provisioned on his acct. The online CSR's knew about it, but couldn't get it provisioned properly because they had to send a message to the local people, who never figured out how to make it work. The local call center said it was impossible to do, even though the FCC regs mandated it. I hooked him up with the VIP support folks who knew exactly what to do and got it done in 3 days.

Yet another friend of mine tried to get a small SD STB that had s-video out (the DCH70), but the local storefront in Foster City had none, and told him to call the call center and they would get one delivered. He talked to the CSR's and they scheduled an appointment for him but brought an old DCT 2000 that was huge and had no s-video connector. The tech said leave a message with a supervisor to schedule a special install with the specific box. He did so 3 times with no call back. One more dispatch from the call center and yet again the wrong box was sent.

None of these problems are the result of inadequate staffing. Yet in each case the problem was a nightmare to get resolved because the CSR's have no clue about what they are doing. Yet in each of these cases, there are system people in Comcast who knew exactly what needed to be done, but could not be contacted through the support chain.

It is pretty clear what Comcast's customer care ratings are in the toilet even though they are hiring record numbers of CSR's. People don't care if their call is answered on the first ring if the person on the other side can't solve their problem. People will put up with longer call hold times if they can resolve a problem on the first call.

Comcast's management is really screwed up on the care side.

Unless Tribune Media was told that the channels were going to go live on a different date, it will continue with "to be announced" until then. But I find it better to just report the issue at:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html

This typically takes them 5 business days to process it.

I just submitted the info, it's a bit cumbersome as the default selections don't really cover what I have. I put the relevant info in the box at the bottom and fudged one of the 4 default selections so the report would go in. We'll see what happens.

i'm not going to hold my breathe, but i hope this actually comes to fruition.

with much expectation of disaster, i called comcast this evening [dave: i called the number on the letter i received 800-381-9053]. reached a very nice CSR Shauna, who didn't know about the offer either (she saw a Digital Preferred package which included Starz on her computer for 39.99/mo for 12 months she could offer me -- i declined). but, being kind, she persisted and put me on hold for close to 15 minutes.

i fully expected to get the same answer you got, but when she got back on, she apologized for the wait and told me her supervisor approved and manually keyed into the system for me at 33/mo for 12 months. she said that tomorrow they would need to come out for an appt, but i didn't need to be there. i am assuming this is just to change things over and remove my filter for the "expanded basic stations" (which i will never watch anyway).

it is unclear what it will be after taxes and she couldn't get me my bill for the first month, but i'm going to hope and pray that this is just 33/mo+ at most the taxes comparable to what i was paying before ($36.62 + 2.20 in taxes)...
so i'm a hoping for a ~35/mo bill. time will tell.

so i don't know if this helps anyone. maybe it depends on who is on duty, etc? if you can't make time to go to the office (who can afford to take vacation time just to save a few bucks on their cable bill?!), maybe another phone call is in order...

i'll keep everyone posted if this falls through, etc...


Yup, I got this letter in the mail a couple of weeks ago and finally got around to calling them up. Comcast's left hand seriously doesn't know what its right hand is doing! :mad:

- I tell CSR I got this letter and would like to take them up on the $33 offer for Digital Standard and the guy says he's never heard of it.
- He checks for clarification from his supervisor and they have also never heard of this.
- He then tells me to take the letter into the customer service center, tells me they are open Mon-Sat.
- A note on the Comcast billing page tells me as of a few weeks ago my local (Santa Clara) customer service center, amongst a few others, is now closed on Saturdays! Good thing I remembered!

Has anyone else been able to get this offer? And if so, will they give you everthing in Std+Expanded basic+Digital Classic for $33? Or will they charge you extra for HD channels, etc? (The letter indicates that $33 covers everything).

Thanks!

Derek, where are you located?

Derek, where are you located?

Santa Clara (95054)

I pay $88.70 for Digital Starter and High Speed Internet:

It's $33 for Digital Starter (with a free CableCard), and I see all channels (the 700s) in HD except National Geographic (I believe that is in a higher tier) and the premiums (HBO, Starz, etc).

$52.95 for High Speed Internet (Blast 16/2), and I received the Motorola modem for free through another promotion, so there is no fee there.

$2.75 for Taxes, surcharges and fees for San Jose ($2.11 franchise fee).

This is a 12-month promotion for the Digital Starter, which is normally $56.99; they may try to force upon you a $7 "HD fee" but it is NOT required.

My friend in Milpitas got a promotion that was even sweeter: Basic cable and Blast for ~$50/month for 12 months - I could live with that! :)

I pay $88.70 for Digital Starter and High Speed Internet:

It's $33 for Digital Starter (with a free CableCard), and I see all channels (the 700s) in HD except National Geographic (I believe that is in a higher tier) and the premiums (HBO, Starz, etc).

$52.95 for High Speed Internet (Blast 16/2), and I received the Motorola modem for free through another promotion, so there is no fee there.

$2.75 for Taxes, surcharges and fees for San Jose ($2.11 franchise fee).

This is a 12-month promotion for the Digital Starter, which is normally $56.99; they may try to force upon you a $7 "HD fee" but it is NOT required.

My friend in Milpitas got a promotion that was even sweeter: Basic cable and Blast for ~$50/month for 12 months - I could live with that! :)

Were you a current customer of both Cable TV and HSI before this deal you got? Or are you a new customer to Comcast? That's a pretty good deal for $89. After the 12 month promotion what does the cost go to?

Your friend a new customer? That's $23 a month less than what I'm paying for the exact same service.(when you say "basic" do you mean Limited Basic?)

I pay $76 + tax for Digital Starter and Blast (16/2), for 12 months. You have to call them to get this rate. I have been a Cable TV customer forever, and just signed on to Cable HSI last November. Not sure if this deal is available to current HSI customers.

I was a current customer of HSI (6M) and cable (basic only). After 12 months the cost will be $56.99 (cable) + $52.95 (16M "Blast" HSI) and I will try to re-new the promotional price or simply downgrade to basic ($13) and keep the Blast HSI (since it's cheaper to do this than subscribe to only the internet). Basic will allow me to continue recording HD locals via QAM with my HDHR.

My friend was brand new to Comcast, and when I called the promotion was already over (it was only a 3 week promotion).

I guess I'll have to give them a call. I've stayed away from anything other than Limited Basic as I'm getting all the HD channels I can watch from DirecTV. But, since I'm already paying $73 a month another $16 a month might be worth the expense, I can at least compare the two feeds.

Your friend's deal would be a no-brainer though. :D

Bottom line, I don't seem to getting the best value with my current costs/programming.

Just saw this...it's somewhat related to what you guys' are talking about: http://www.electronichouse.com/article/bundle_battles_finding_the_best_package_for_cable_voice_inte rnet_and_more/

Just saw this...it's somewhat related to what you guys' are talking about: http://www.electronichouse.com/article/bundle_battles_finding_the_best_package_for_cable_voice_inte rnet_and_more/

Interesting, it doesn't cover what they've got above though - Digital Starter+16/2 HSI.

I agree about the Comcast website, it's terrible, there's not even any prices that I noticed for my area's site. And, it takes forever to load, seems a bit odd for an internet provider. :p

I was thinking the same thing when I was paying my bill online the other week....they're site is sooooooo freakin' slow. Definitely odd for telecommunications company....

Interesting, it doesn't cover what they've got above though - Digital Starter+16/2 HSI.

I agree about the Comcast website, it's terrible, there's not even any prices that I noticed for my area's site. And, it takes forever to load, seems a bit odd for an internet provider. :p

ha ha ha... i actually wrote a complaint to them of how slow their online site for bill pay is...really lame for a broadband provider...

Keenan - have you tried "threatening" or gently threatening to leave to see if they will give you some "retainer" discount or package?

ha ha ha... i actually wrote a complaint to them of how slow their online site for bill pay is...really lame for a broadband provider...

Keenan - have you tried "threatening" or gently threatening to leave to see if they will give you some "retainer" discount or package?

The site has been like that for a long time, ridiculous.

Actually, I'm a bit surprised the haven't paid me to leave them given all the complaining I've done in the past. :p:D

Seriously though, I'm still a little uncertain if I really want it, Comcast was just too late to the party for me given all the HD I'm getting now from DirecTV. I would like to lower the cost though, if possible, so I suppose I will go to the local office as the website is less than useless.

For you guys with Tivo S3's or TivoHD's and were worried about SDV coming to Comcast, Tivo has released a software upgrade that adds the software necessary to use SDV with Tivo, version 9.4. I can verify that it has reached the Bay Area since my TivoHD has the upgrade installed and the Tuner resolver is in the menu. So all that's needed now is to have the hardware, " tuner resolver ", manufactured and released to the general public. Hopefully this will happen before SDV on Comcast gets to the Left Coast ;)

As a side note, it seems Tivo is discontinuing the S3, it's no longer available from Tivo.... maybe the new Tru2way TivoHD is getting ready to be released ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I am in Menlo Park and my S3 got the 9.4 update. Then, it lost almost all analog channels. I can only receive 603 and above, which includes the HD channels.

I rebooted a few times with no luck. I know the line is working because it also feeds a Mac running an EyeTV tuner that is working fine. I looked at the cablecard/DVR diags and seems that the cards are not tuned. Does comcast have to hit them? What happened?

I am in Menlo Park and my S3 got the 9.4 update. Then, it lost almost all analog channels. I can only receive 603 and above, which includes the HD channels.

I rebooted a few times with no luck. I know the line is working because it also feeds a Mac running an EyeTV tuner that is working fine. I looked at the cablecard/DVR diags and seems that the cards are not tuned. Does comcast have to hit them? What happened?

Oldskoolboarder,

I have a TivoHD and got the update with no problems. A lot of things could be wrong depending on your set up but here's a link to the TivoCommunity Forums that can help you with your problem, they deal strictly with problems on Tivos .... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51
Hope this helps you.

Laters,
Mikef5

Can i say that Comcast sucks? well, what else is new?

in short, i need to vent, but will keep it short...i'm officially following up on my whole $33/mo deal:

1. i went online to check my bill and pay for the "old bill" and found they charged me $15.99 for the pleasure of the switch to the Digital Starter plan AND are also still going to charge me $7 for HD...regardless of whether i keep their box or not.

2. contrary to the letter: i LOSE channels like NGEO and Science Channel.

3. i spent 90 minutes discussing this issue in escalating management/authority today without any success except the immediate removal of the $15.99 charge.

i think this may do it for my days with Comcast. i'm in a different boat than most of you: i watch VERY little TV. don't need to go into the reasons but due to some busyness and life changes, my tv consumption, which was never that great, has dropped down to miniscule levels the past 9 months. this may be a good time to drop down to limited basic and just stick with recording any local HD channels using my Mac's QAM tuner and then piping them to my TV when i want to watch.

it's surprising though how uninformed the whole comcast line of employees is from top to bottom. i think that's been noted before, but it was even clearer today in dealing with it all firsthand. moreover, i don't think the supervisor really understood my parting shot that picture quality had nose-dived in the past year due to added channels.

sort of sad...i was a fan of comcast for several years (probably selfishly because they allowed me to have my cake and eat it too: limited basic + ESPN and FSN for so cheap, for so long...that fits my viewing profile, but i know i'm probably abnormal...just give me local networks and sports, and i'm happy)

i know $42/mo is cheap for what i would be getting for the next 12 months (well, comparable to some satellite offers), but i think the principle of how the company is running itself is a perhaps bigger impetus to either step down, or maybe even step aside and let the company collapse until it reminds itself that the customer should come first...

(of course it stings to remind me that just 4 years ago, i was paying about $19/mo for exactly what i wanted!)

as for pic quality, we here on avsf forum are probably in a minority in thinking that quantity does not equate with quality...

so sad...

sort of sad...i was a fan of comcast for several years (probably selfishly because they allowed me to have my cake and eat it too: limited basic + ESPN and FSN for so cheap, for so long...that fits my viewing profile, but i know i'm probably abnormal...just give me local networks and sports, and i'm happy)



Interesting, were you getting ESPN-HD and FSNHD with just Limited Basic? What about DHDT-HD?

If so, I'm thinking I may just leave things as they are as I currently get a similar lineup.

Does the ~$7 additional digital outlet fee apply to accounts with limited basic service? I've had limited basic (~$15) with 2 CableCards ($1.79) for a while. Yesterday I picked up 2 more CableCards, and the rep said $1.79. I said OK and didn't (want to) ask about the AO fee. Based on the recent activities online, there is no AO fee, either. Is that normal, or a mistake in my favor?

Interesting, were you getting ESPN-HD and FSNHD with just Limited Basic? What about DHDT-HD?
When I first got my HD box from comcast in late 2005, it was like that. I got ESPN-HD, FSNHD, DHDT etc for Limited Basic + HD Box($7). A few months later I added Digital Classic to get TBS HD etc.

If so, I'm thinking I may just leave things as they are as I currently get a similar lineup.
It mostly won't work that way now.

Btw, I have Limited Basic + Digital Classic but haven't received this letter or the offer. I am hoping I won't lose the channels on Aug 15th. Are there others who haven't received the letter? I am in 95134.

Does the ~$7 additional digital outlet fee apply to accounts with limited basic service? I've had limited basic (~$15) with 2 CableCards ($1.79) for a while. Yesterday I picked up 2 more CableCards, and the rep said $1.79. I said OK and didn't (want to) ask about the AO fee. Based on the recent activities online, there is no AO fee, either. Is that normal, or a mistake in my favor?

I would say it's a mistake in your favor, but I would give it at least two billing periods before celebrating. OTOH, I've had a similar billing "oversight" now for 2 years and it's such a good deal I'm hesitant to even talk to Comcast about different TV service options.

Does the ~$7 additional digital outlet fee apply to accounts with limited basic service? I've had limited basic (~$15) with 2 CableCards ($1.79) for a while. Yesterday I picked up 2 more CableCards, and the rep said $1.79. I said OK and didn't (want to) ask about the AO fee. Based on the recent activities online, there is no AO fee, either. Is that normal, or a mistake in my favor?

If the new ones work (i.e. you get encrypted channels), then its a mistake in your favor!

When I first got my HD box from comcast in late 2005, it was like that. I got ESPN-HD, FSNHD, DHDT etc for Limited Basic + HD Box($7). A few months later I added Digital Classic to get TBS HD etc.


It mostly won't work that way now.

Btw, I have Limited Basic + Digital Classic but haven't received this letter or the offer. I am hoping I won't lose the channels on Aug 15th. Are there others who haven't received the letter? I am in 95134.

I haven't receive any letter either, the only thing I got was a letter stating the change in cost of the base packages with Limited Basic(what I have) actually going down.

I'm currently getting a similar lineup with 2 extra HD channels, although I suspect one of them will disappear after the Olympics.

FCC rules against Comcast for P2P throttling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080801/tc_nm/comcast_fcc_dc_3

If the new ones work (i.e. you get encrypted channels), then its a mistake in your favor!

Limited basic does not have any encrypted channels. The CableCards are used for TiVo channel map only.

I haven't receive any letter either, the only thing I got was a letter stating the change in cost of the base packages with Limited Basic(what I have) actually going down.

I'm currently getting a similar lineup with 2 extra HD channels, although I suspect one of them will disappear after the Olympics.

Keenan, do you have Digital Classic over Limited Basic? It was not very clear from the above.
thanks.

Keenan, do you have Digital Classic over Limited Basic? It was not very clear from the above.
thanks.

Sent you a PM

Interesting, were you getting ESPN-HD and FSNHD with just Limited Basic? What about DHDT-HD?

If so, I'm thinking I may just leave things as they are as I currently get a similar lineup.

yes, back in my old house, about four years ago, i was getting with limited basic + $5 HD (17-18 bucks): ESPNHD, FSN-HD, INHD1 and 2, Discovery HD and maybe one other HD channeland in fact, for a while, free HD Showtime and HBO!

then they dropped Showtime and HBO (no loss for me)

then when i moved, i lost that sweet deal, but could add digital classic for $9 more and get TBSHD and a few others...

but that 28 buck bill ballooned to almost 39 in the last 2 years and now, i'm up to 42-43 with this "special offer."

i suspect that although the letter was not sent to you and you'll be in for a "rude surprise" come Aug 15, but given that it's comcast, i wouldn't bet on anything.

i had been thinking seriously of dropping down to limited basic (14) + HD (8)...for quite some time now, and that may be the route i pursue. my LCD doesn't have a QAM tuner; however, i do have one on my computer...so one way to save money is to record shows (which i almost always do) on my computer for network HD and drop down to a mere $14/mo.

still chewing, but sick and tired of giving Comcast my money...even though i acknowledge, i am paying a lot less than most people (but i watch a lot less too)

Yes, I don't know if my area is affected by Aug 15th or not, but I'm going to wait until then before I do anything, if I do anything at all.

Yes, I don't know if my area is affected by Aug 15th or not, but I'm going to wait until then before I do anything, if I do anything at all.

sounds like a good plan. i realized now in hindsight, that would have been the wise thing to do to see "what happened." the 33/mo deal actually expires 8/31/08, so there was a 2 week window to switch over...but of course, as usual, hindsight is 20/20...

keep us posted.

I'm in Sunnyvale and watching Stargate Atlantis on scifi hd right now (7pm broadcast) and I'm getting enormous amounts of errors. The channel completely died for about 10-15sec at one point (black) then resumed with heavy heavy pixelation (unwatchable). I see that its being carried on the 831MHz frequency which might be a little high. Checking the Channel Status I saw that the SNR jumped around 24 dB (POOR) and 36.3 (Good). UHD, a channel on the same QAM is also full of pixelation. I wanted to see if any of you guys had this problem or is it a problem with the equipment here. Maybe my drop-line to the apartment is old and can't perform well enough at this high frequency, but it has never been this bad.

Comcast moved QAM channels around I guess because nag geo hd went from 831MHz to 495MHz.

Might I also add that bitrates for USA and SciFI look a little better now, both cruising along at ~14-14.5mbps instead of barely 12mbps.

Limited basic does not have any encrypted channels. The CableCards are used for TiVo channel map only.

Thats good. So your cards are "authenticated" but not "authorized", something like that. For the second part which is required for encrypted channels, Comcast computer system needs to add an "AO" code to your account.

Okay, after watching some of the Olympics on NBC, USA and UHD I have some comments.

I get terrible macroblocking on fast motion. Anytime NBC does the moving graphic, it looks blocky. Swimming and gymnastics looks very poor too. I checked under VLC and the bitrate is in the range of 14.5 to 15 Mbps, so it doesn't appear to be a bitrate issue.

When watching the PGA Championship, ESPNHD, CSNHD I don't see much macroblocking. I've even swapped out my video card on my HTPC to see if that was it, but it isn't. Also, I get the same sorts of problems on my Linksys Extender.

Anybody else notice these sorts of issues? Keenan? You have both Directv and Comcast....do you notice any difference on the two?

My displays are calibrated and I have never had such issues before, until maybe a month ago. Previously had DishNetwork and never noticed macroblocking like this....so it can't be the display.

Thanks for commenting.

Anybody else notice these sorts of issues?
yes, pretty bad macroblocking issues.. its distracting. I would think its an NBC problem.

I've been watching the Olympics with an OTA feed for channel 11 and it's been a pretty solid picture for all the NBC coverage. No macroblocking or motion blur on either of my lcd tv's (toshiba 52XF550U and a samsung LN52A650, both connected to Terk ampflied antennas in South San Francisco). It's likely due to their new San Bruno tower broadcasting though.

I haven't seen any macroblocking but I do see, quite often, where the screen will go black for a second or two (the audio keeps going). Oh, and thanks NBC for waiting till all the national news sites posted the outcome of the 4x100 free relay BEFORE you showed it. Glad I stayed up till midnight to watch it "live".

Oh, and thanks NBC for waiting till all the national news sites posted the outcome of the 4x100 free relay BEFORE you showed it. Glad I stayed up till midnight to watch it "live".
Apparently NBC (and ABC before it) got burned too many times when they tried airing live events at the same time throughout the country - "I missed (insert the name of an event) because you started airing it at 5:00 PM Pacific and I was stuck in traffic."

Remember, NBC did the same thing with the Salt Lake City 2002 Winter Olympics; everything was on 3-hour delay out west. (I think the delay is only 1 hour in the Mountain time zone, as they usually use the Central airing times, but I am not sure about the Olympics.)

I for one have wondered why NBC can't air the live version (with the same nationally-sold commercials) on, say, CNBC, but I have a feeling it is because the local affiliates (not to mentioned NBC-owned KNBC) want to be sure people watch it on their channel (and watch the locally-sold commercials along with it).

-- Don

Apparently NBC (and ABC before it) got burned too many times when they tried airing live events at the same time throughout the country - "I missed (insert the name of an event) because you started airing it at 5:00 PM Pacific and I was stuck in traffic."

Remember, NBC did the same thing with the Salt Lake City 2002 Winter Olympics; everything was on 3-hour delay out west. (I think the delay is only 1 hour in the Mountain time zone, as they usually use the Central airing times, but I am not sure about the Olympics.)

I for one have wondered why NBC can't air the live version (with the same nationally-sold commercials) on, say, CNBC, but I have a feeling it is because the local affiliates (not to mentioned NBC-owned KNBC) want to be sure people watch it on their channel (and watch the locally-sold commercials along with it).

-- Don

I can almost live with a one or two hour delay, but when it is a 24 hour delay, I really get annoyed. The men's gymnastics final will start in Beijing about 7 pm tonight (Monday) our time. That's one sport that we would want to watch in real time. I hope we can see that sometime tonight and not tomorrow night.

I'm not a sports fan but I noted watching USA-HD last night that they broadcast the Olympics live at 3 AM in the morning. Sort of a new version of "USA Up All Night" I guess. :)

I'm not a sports fan but I noted watching USA-HD last night that they broadcast the Olympics live at 3 AM in the morning. Sort of a new version of "USA Up All Night" I guess. :)

3AM in the Bay area is 6PM in Beijing. That would be a typical "live" start for an event there.

I got pretty bad macroblocking and motion blur issues with Olympics and other primetime coverages on NBC-HD but its HD news broadcast, late night shows and football games look much better...not sure what the problem is.

Hmmm. I'll have to look at other programs too. I recall American Gladiators looking terrible the other night, whereas previously it looked very good. I'll have to watch Headlines on The Tonight Show tonight. That's about the only segment worth anything on that show.

In almost all cases it's the signal from NBC, it's most likely not even a KNTV issue. Because the originating signal has to be converted from 50Hz to 60Hz(this conversion rarely ever looks good in the end), go through multiple compression schemes, and is being sent on an already overloaded sat(NBC/UNI runs darn near all their channels on 1 transponder), we end up with an image that is quite a bit lower in quality than if we were, say, in Hong Kong with no conversion, and far less transport compression.

Plus, according to some of the "experts", NBC is not using the best of the best when it comes to the equipment they're using. Vancouver should be a much better looking signal as they're 60Hz in Canada, but by then, local station KNTV might have 4 or 5 sub-channels. :D

This is totally off topic but I just noticed ( at least in my browser ) that there are no posts from 1 Aug to 10 Aug in this forum ( but the article numbering is in order with no missing numbers ) and I know that I just posted here the other day to TPeterson and Keenan. Am I the only one seeing this or have I finally gone senile :eek:

Laters,
Mikef5

This is totally off topic but I just noticed ( at least in my browser ) that there are no posts from 1 Aug to 10 Aug in this forum ( but the article numbering is in order with no missing numbers ) and I know that I just posted here the other day to TPeterson and Keenan. Am I the only one seeing this or have I finally gone senile :eek:

Laters,
Mikef5
You've gone senile, it's now Aug 11, 2010, where have you been? :p:D

See the below from the top of the forum,

AVS Forum Community:

On the morning of August 11, AVS Forum suffered a major failure in the database and backup storage. As such, we have no choice but to recover from August 2nd.

This represents tens of thousands of lost posts and new threads for the last week. There is nothing we can do about it at this time but move forward. We are sorry about the loss and will work to be sure this does not happen again. We are as upset about this as you may be, more than likely even more. Further details can be found in the Forum Operations section.

Regretfully,

AVS Forum