San Francisco, CA - Comcast [Text View] - Page 40

Cal1981

04-17-09, 01:11 PM

Since the e-mail from Comcast had a link to the DTA order/activation site, I hit that and got into an online chat with a rep. As usual, it was far from illuminating.

S (Fri Apr 17 12:29:00 PDT 2009)>
Thank you for contacting Comcast Live Chat Support. My name is S. Please give me one moment to review your information.

Me(Fri Apr 17 09:30:38 PDT 2009)
My question is not really about the DTAs sincw we have the Digital Premier package with 2 DVRs and a DCT700. I wanted to find out when the digital conversion is scheduled for my area, Vallejo

S (Fri Apr 17 12:31:17 PDT 2009)>
The digital migration will push through this June 12, 2009.

Me(Fri Apr 17 09:32:14 PDT 2009)>
OK. Does the company have any kind of timeline for additional HD channels after the migration?

S (Fri Apr 17 12:33:06 PDT 2009)>
What do you mean by that?

Me (Fri Apr 17 09:33:48 PDT 2009)>
Specifically, when can we expect to see an increase in the number of linear HD channels that we get?

S (Fri Apr 17 12:35:16 PDT 2009)>
As of right now we don't have any updates, regarding additional HD channels. During the migration there won't be any changes in the number of channels in HD.

Me(Fri Apr 17 09:36:14 PDT 2009)>
So is there a plan to increase the number of HDs to begin to match the Boston area for instance?

S (Fri Apr 17 12:38:24 PDT 2009)>
Actually, the channel line ups depends on the market. Boston actually have a different channel line ups than what you have right now, that's why they have more HD channels or different HD channels.

Me(Fri Apr 17 09:41:22 PDT 2009)>
Here's the point: Boston subscribers pay the same rates that I do and get twice as many HD channels. I realize that Boston went all digital awhile back but Comcast, in its World of More announcements, is claiming that we will see a large increase in HDs. I just want to know when, after the migration, that will begin. Let's start with MLB-HD and NHL-HD for instance.

S (Fri Apr 17 12:46:13 PDT 2009)>
Can you please verify your address?

Me(Fri Apr 17 09:46:31 PDT 2009)>
XXX Vallejo, CA

S(Fri Apr 17 12:48:35 PDT 2009)>
As of the moment there is still no additional HD channels specifically those that you ask of me. But rest assured that when digital migration will push through this June 12, 2009, there will be more additional HD channels in your area. But right now we still don't have the line ups on what channels will be added.

MikeSM

04-17-09, 01:44 PM

I don't think that my wife will stand for me ripping the wall/ceiling down much tho she misses her programs.
Guess we will have to wait to get a 20" TV with Tru2way - I am much more in favor of this approach to cable rather than external boxes - it also allows use of the TVs in-built functions many of which are lost with the cable box! Our main TV is a 50" Panny with a CableCard (also hung on the wall) - the in-built TV Guide, favorites, channel skip etc functions of the TV are, IMHO, far superior to those of the cable box which I had originally.

I wouldn't put too much faith in tru2way. The headend needs support for that and I don't believe it's supported in this market yet - a lot of details have yet to be settled with it. BTW, the tru2way stuff all requires the hardware vendor to implement a downloadable UI when in cable mode - so it will still look like the same awful UI you have on your DCT.

If you are going to end up with boxes, you might want to think about alternatives to comcast - since if they are going to make everyone get boxes anyway, then the one big advantage over DBS they have goes away.

mpoggi

04-17-09, 02:19 PM

DAP

04-17-09, 02:41 PM

Hi,
I have what I'm sure is a very basic question, but I'm new to HD having just purchased a Panasonic S1 plasma.

I'm located in San Jose, CA and am using Comcast. I've plugged the cable directly into the TV and am able to receive a number of HD stations up into the 120s. I cannot, however, receive stations in the 720 range. When I type in 720 (or 721, etc) nothing happens. I just stay at whichever station is currently tuned in. I've also tried 720-1, -2, etc. Am I doing something incorrectly? I'm sure this has been addressed previously, but haven't been able to find a relevant post.

Thanks for your help.

You don't have a cable box connected, so your TV is showing the channels on the actual channels they are broadcast on, not the arbitrary numbers Comcast assigns to them. Very few systems besides the cable box can currently decode the translation table that is broadcast on the cable.

bobby94928

04-17-09, 02:41 PM

Hi,
I have what I'm sure is a very basic question, but I'm new to HD having just purchased a Panasonic S1 plasma.

I'm located in San Jose, CA and am using Comcast. I've plugged the cable directly into the TV and am able to receive a number of HD stations up into the 120s. I cannot, however, receive stations in the 720 range. When I type in 720 (or 721, etc) nothing happens. I just stay at whichever station is currently tuned in. I've also tried 720-1, -2, etc. Am I doing something incorrectly? I'm sure this has been addressed previously, but haven't been able to find a relevant post.

Thanks for your help.

You will not find anything in the 720 range by plugging directly into your TV without a box. Those are the remapped QAM channel numbers that comcast uses. You should find them somewhere in the lower numbers, just as you can find KPIX HD on 78-1 and KTVU HD on 78-2.

Go to http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui/US:95120 and it will show you where most of your channels should be. I can't, however, find CSNBay or CSNCA on the list. They are probably somewhere on the Unknowns shown. You might have to try a scan when an event is playing on either channel.

mpoggi

04-17-09, 02:45 PM

Thank you! The silicondust link is very helpful.

That Don Guy

04-17-09, 03:04 PM

Wow, thanks for alerting Comcast. I have been receiving free on-demand on these channels since last year. I was able to watch many 1080i HD movies and other programs. That all ended around the beginning of April. Now they are all scrambled. Now I know why.

Thanks again, snitch. This is probably one of Comcast's favorite web forums.
If Comcast really does pay attention to this forum, then they have known about this "feature" for three months - this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15563686#post15563686) seems to be describing the same thing, albeit all within one house.

-- That Don Snitch

Brian Conrad

04-17-09, 03:33 PM

I see with my HDHR scan that KGO Plus is up but it is SD not HD. Comcast announced it available after 4/15 as HD on channel 715 (in my area). Must've been a bit of miss communication there. ;)

Current line up in my area via scan of channels with PSIP:
36.1 qam256 121 1 KICU
36.2 qam256 121 3 KICU
4.2 qam256 117 1 KRON
44.1 qam256 117 5 KBCW-DT
5.1 qam256 110 1 KPIX
2.1 qam256 110 2 KTVUHD
2.2 qam256 110 3 KTVU-SD
7.1 qam256 82 1 KGO-HD
9.1 qam256 82 2 KQED-HD
9.2 qam256 82 3 ENCORE
7.2 qam256 82 7 KGOPLUS
7.3 qam256 82 8 KGO
11.1 qam256 79 1 DKNTV,
11.2 qam256 79 2 KNTVW-N
11.3 qam256 79 3 KNTVS,
20.1 qam256 79 6 KOFY-HD

(I had to write a Python script to extract these as the old AWK script from the original Linux script broke).

miimura

04-17-09, 04:26 PM

TPeterson--

Yes, I had already done that (saw the suggestion in earlier forum). I am in Zip 94024 and I believe my service comes from Cupertino so I had tried some Cupertino Zips as well but 94024 seems to match what programs I do see. The strange thing is that the QAM tuner seems to miss out whole xx. sections, e.g. according to Silicondust map some 7 of the missing programs are in 78.1 to 78.12 but my scan misses out the whole of this 78. series.

I do receive 119.9 and 119.10 (HSN & QVC as if I want them!!) but get no entry for 119.3 APL or 119.7 CNN.

I do receive 128.3 DSC but none of the other 5 missing channels in the same 128. series, and get no entries for 129.x where there are further missing channels.

I tried taking the TV from the wall and connecting it directly to the incoming cable (after one 2-way 50-1000 split for it and HSI) just in case the problem had anything to do with signal strength although I always thought that whilst analog could give a bad picture on a poor line with digital you either had the signal or you did not - is this theory correct? In any case I still got the same scan results.

Any thoughts that you have on this would be most welcomed

RegardsI'm on Comcast in 94024 and I can assure you that all the expanded basic channels are in clear QAM. I can receive them on my MDP-130 and my HDHomerun. I have not verified that they all show up on my 60 series Panny plasma's internal tuner though. I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

- Mike

dmo580

04-17-09, 07:02 PM

curtis82

04-17-09, 08:41 PM

Does anyone have STANDARD cable (basic + expanded) which means local HD channels are in the clear QAM?

I'm willing to get a box from Comcast for the sake of mapping/numbering now that like 30-40 expanded channels are now gone, but at the same time they only give you a crap STB that causes you to lose HD quality transmissions because it only has composite.

I find this ridiculous because either you:

A) Use the standard STB and lose HD picture
B) Stick to your TV's QAM tuner and play musical chairs with Comcast's numbering system

C) The other option is PAY comcast for "HD service" when LOCAL HD is IN THE CLEAR.

or...

D) Argue with Comcast to get the bigger moto digital box without paying a price? I'm fine if it's a rental fee, but they keep telling me I have to pay for the subscription. That's outrageous. I don't want TNT, ESPNHD. I want to KEEP the ability to watch ABC/FOX/CBSHD.

What I'm trying to argue is if they want me to go to an STB they shouldn't be causing me to lose the HD picture and downgrade to composite connection. They should be giving out STBs with HDMI/Component.

EVERYTIME I argue that I'm getting local HD channels from Comcast they tell me it's OTA. They tell me that I need to pay. Their CSRs are RETARDED.

Or am I out of luck because everyone pays for Digital Cable? And the ones who are stuck on Standard like me either:

A) Don't care about digital picture, and now that Comcast has forced them over will care briefly, but don't care about image quality like HD
B) The very few like me who are willing to deal with screwed up numbering systems.
C) Willing to finally pay a higher price (ugh) for a full digital picture?

Edit: Spoke with Comcast online and explained my frustration. I was told that depending on the location, some markets are giving out HDMI boxes.

Well unfortunately this happened after my mom went to Comcast and put me on the phone and the stupid lady there said no we do not have to send out local HD (LIE #1), and that I'm watching OTA (stupidity #1). I said no, I know that by law Comcast has to send out local HD unencrypted and my TV is hooked up. No use arguing you know? She told me off and said I have to pay, etc. Unfortunately, this is like explaining an integral or derivative to a 5 year old. It's no use. She told me I can split my cable to watch OTA and Cable, but I guess I can use the splitter to watch local HD and then the other to plug in to the stupid COMPOSITE box.

Bleh.

Comcast CSRs are not "RETARDED", blame the company they work for not training them properly and giving them correct info. You're right, by law they have to carry Local HD unencrypted. However that doesn't mean Comcast or any other cable company for that matter is going to train their reps about it or even acknowledge it's existence. The whole point is to have us as customers get that HD cable box and pay the monthly equipment fees. If they trained the CSRS about the local HD's being in the clear, that would cut into the income they receive from the those $7 per month HD box fees as more customers would just opt for getting the locals through their qam tuners. So just putting their head in the sand about the unencrypted HD works fine for them because most of the public is unaware about it anyway. So in closing don't blame the messenger, they're just dong what they're told.

Also the best way to get a HDMI box is to call comcast and have a rep ship one out to you via UPS. Shipping is free and the only models of boxes that are shipped are either the DCH 3200 and the DCH 3416 (HD DVR). which both have the HDMI ports.

BELLCH

04-17-09, 09:03 PM

I'm on Comcast in 94024 and I can assure you that all the expanded basic channels are in clear QAM. I can receive them on my MDP-130 and my HDHomerun. I have not verified that they all show up on my 60 series Panny plasma's internal tuner though. I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

Thanks Mike - it must be the crummy QAM tuner on my 2 year old 20" Visio that is just not picking up those channels. Up til now I had thought that that company made a good price/performance product, especially for a TV to be used in the Kitchen or Bedroom. What I don't understand is why it would pick up some digital(96 on the scan) but not the ones that have just been moved. Guess I am resigned to losing those channels for the time being.

anthony415

04-18-09, 02:28 AM

Missing Expanded Basic Channels 40 to 61 on QAM Tuner[/B]

My service has presumably moved Expanded Basic from Analog to Digital and I have lost channels 41 to 60 completely and Channels 40 and 61 are snowed on the one TV that I have that is directly connected to cable (without a box) and has up til now tuned all channels 2 to 80 in SD and local channels in HD (albeit using xx-x to get them). I have tried rescanning and going through all of the scanned channels and cannot find these "lost" channels.

I have three other TVs - one using a CableCard and two other analog sets which are connected using DTAs. They all get the full Expanded Basic programming set so it is obviously being broadcast into my home.

The TV with the QAM tuner is hung on the wall in the kitchen with the cable running inside the cavity directly into the back of the TV so it is difficult for me to install a DTA or any other box to it even if I wanted to.
What is more, the TV has a digital Tuner and the Comcast is offering a DTA which from what I understand will convert the Expanded Basic Digital signal to analog, feed it into my digital TV where it will be converted back to Digital - surely such a double conversion will impact the picture quality in some way and dosen't make sense to me.

Add to that the fact that since the DTA effectively requires me to have the TV tuned to Channel 3 and use their very basic remote means that I lose virtually all of the additional features of the TV - e.g. "Favorites" channel lists, -skip some channels, channel ID display etc etc.
In addition if I use a DTA (which has only a "cable" outlet) I have no way of getting my HD local channels --- unless I dig a hole in the wall, install a Comcast HD set-top box and pay an additional outlet and HD fee!!! Is this Comcasts way of forcing more of us to use their HD boxes?

I believe that Comcast should find some way of providing the same full set of Expanded Basic channels to users who have sets with QAM tuners in the same way as they provided them in the past to the analog sets. We are paying for the service and should be able to tune into it in a simple and manageable way without additional boxes whilst at the same time being able to take advantage of the functions of the new flat screen TVs technology.

I am surprised that there has not been more of an outcry over this - am I missing something or are others not overly concerned about it?

I have the same issue on my Panasonic, it's missing my kids Nickelodeon, have no cable box and it just disappear. Anyone know where the channels went to? I don't want to get a cable box.

walk

04-18-09, 05:05 PM

It's not a conspiracy. The DTA boxes are designed for old analog TVs (hence the name, Digital To Analog). They were never intended to be used on digital/HDTVs. If you want to use the free DTA to watch analog channels AND HD channels on the same TV, you need a splitter, that's all there is to it.

I don't blame you for wanting proper channel numbers, but you don't need the DTA on a digital TV with QAM tuner. You CAN demand that Comcast takes the time to input proper ID info to the digital channels so they will have normal channel numbers, but beyond that, you'll have to get a cable box if you can't deal with the wonky digital channel numbering...

thatdude90210

04-19-09, 03:18 AM

Just received letter from Comcast about Jade channel (Mandarin & Cantonese programing 6pm to 12) channel. Basically they are taking it away, but you can get Jade-Premium on channel 360 for $10.95 a month.

They are basically making Chinese Americans who wish to continue watching in their native language pay an extra $11 a month more, and they have to audacity to start the letter with "we have some exciting news regarding Jade Channel." Lol. Granted, Jade premium has more hours but still, one group of immigrants are getting the shaft from Comcast.

viperx116

04-19-09, 02:40 PM

keenan

04-19-09, 04:17 PM

keenan

04-19-09, 04:38 PM

Is it just me, or does the Giants game seem a bit "blown-out" and lacking fine detail. The audio from the booth is not all that good either.

Mikef5

04-19-09, 05:30 PM

Is it just me, or does the Giants game seem a bit "blown-out" and lacking fine detail. The audio from the booth is not all that good either.

Jim,

Are you watching it on Comcast or D* ?
It looks fine to me on CSNBA-HD

On another note. Did you every get programing data on your Tivo for CSNCA-HD ? I got it after I got the firmware update to 11c, did a restart and the guide date for that channel was there. Still not getting the right programing data for CSNBA-HD, still shows the old guide data when it wasn't a 24/7 station.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mikef5

04-19-09, 05:33 PM

I don't know anything about the channel(other than being Asian-oriented), but that seems like a lot of money, DirecTV only charges $12 for a Showtime or HBO.

Contact the channel itself and see what they say.

I'm pretty sure that Jade is part of the Asian package that costs $10, not just for the Jade channel. Jade at one time was shown in the clear but like all good things that is a thing of the past.

Laters,
Mikef5

keenan

04-19-09, 05:40 PM

Jim,

Are you watching it on Comcast or D* ?
It looks fine to me on CSNBA-HD

On another note. Did you every get programing data on your Tivo for CSNCA-HD ? I got it after I got the firmware update to 11c, did a restart and the guide date for that channel was there. Still not getting the right programing data for CSNBA-HD, still shows the old guide data when it wasn't a 24/7 station.

Laters,
Mikef5

It looks better now, might have been the sun angle, although that center field to home plate shot doesn't look that great. I have guide info for this game, not sure about the future. Don't understand the channel name though, CSNBD3?

Still on 11.0b on the TiVo.

rsra13

04-19-09, 09:31 PM

I hope Jade is part of a package.

Comcast latino, the spanish package, has like 20 channels, a couple are already free, but still, and Playboy en Espanol (24x7) is part of that package. ;)
Last I checked it was around $16.

garypen

04-20-09, 10:40 AM

garypen

04-20-09, 10:41 AM

jlee301

04-20-09, 11:05 AM

I hope Jade is part of a package.

Last time I checked, it was not part of their "Dragon" package or whatever it was. I've been paying $10/month for this channel.

JJ93rx7

04-20-09, 06:58 PM

GameGod

04-21-09, 05:08 PM

I live in Belmont, and I still can't get any of the "new" HD channels (like FXHD)

From post #8934:

Phase One (On or about March 9th)

Pleasanton
Santa Clara

Phase Two (On or about March 16th)

South San Francisco
San Rafael
Novato
San Mateo
Belmont
San Carlos

Has the transition happened yet? Is there a new ETA for the transition in my area?

Thanks.

Barovelli

04-21-09, 07:04 PM

JJ93RX7 - I've seen that too but I brushed it off as a fluke. I'll see if I can find anything.

Mikef5

04-21-09, 09:24 PM

I live in the Monterey Bay area and I am hook up to HDTV cable with COMCAST. I have recently noticed that on channel 705 CBS KION every 2-3 minutes there are intermittent streaks and digital drop outs. The reception is ok but the streaks are annoying. This is the only channel that has this problem. I checked all my cable connections and HDMI connections and everything is fine. I have been on COMCAST HDTV cable for the past 3-4 years and have just noticed this problem. Has anyone else noticed this.

Thank you!
JJ93rx7,

I've noticed the same thing on CBS 705 on my 47" Vizio but only when I have the tv connected by the component cables, I don't see it when I've got it hooked up with the HDMI cables. I noticed that it's especially noticeable when they are using an overlay like they do when they are doing the news or weather. There's something in the signal that CBS is sending that the Vizio doesn't like because it doesn't do it on my Panasonic. CBS is the only station that I see this problem on. I would be interested if others are seeing this also and what kind of tv they are using.

Laters,
Mikef5

JJ93rx7

04-21-09, 09:46 PM

I have a Sony 40" XBR4. My comcast setup box DVR is connected with a Monoprice HDMI cable. I am having Comcast come out tomorrow to take a look at the problem. It is only on channel 705 so I don't think it is the Comcast box and I know it is not the television. My blu-ray player plays perfectly with no streaks or other problems. It must be the CBS transmission to Comcast. I would like to hear from other people who are experiencing the same problem.

JJ93rx7,

I've noticed the same thing on CBS 705 on my 47" Vizio but only when I have the tv connected by the component cables, I don't see it when I've got it hooked up with the HDMI cables. I noticed that it's especially noticeable when they are using an overlay like they do when they are doing the news or weather. There's something in the signal that CBS is sending that the Vizio doesn't like because it doesn't do it on my Panasonic. CBS is the only station that I see this problem on. I would be interested if others are seeing this also and what kind of tv they are using.

Laters,
Mikef5

Brian Conrad

04-22-09, 02:31 PM

I was having some dropouts on KPIX and a couple other channels. In some cases the HDHR would not even find some of these channels during a scan but find ones above them. I thought it might be wiring as moving box to where the DVR was located and using that cable outlet helped. But then yesterday there was a truck in my area and the tech was replacing what looks like a line amplifier (this morning I saw trucks doing this in other neighborhoods in my area). After that replacement the missing channels came in fine at the old outlet. I'm wondering if some of the Internet improvements might have been causing signal loss on some channels (through weird electronic voodoo) and the amps are boosting the signales for those channels.

dlou99

04-23-09, 01:56 AM

marc.aronson

04-23-09, 09:46 AM

So I just got back from vacation and am getting caught up on the forums. The posting about how the DTA's get their data was interesting, so I started poking around and scanning for PIDs containing the SI data. Interestingly enough, I found Network Text tables and VCT tables not just on one frequency but on several, so that'd make things easier to programmatically map a useful name to frequencies and program numbers. I'm working on a demuxer and SCTE-65 parser right now to do just that. Looks like Comcast deviates from the standard a bit because the spec calls for 4 bytes in front of each name in the SNS record but I count 6.
Dlou99, I am not familiar with some of the terminology you have used, but are you saying that there is a way to determine the network that is on each of the channels after a scan? If so, I would like to better understand how to do this. I have a mythtv box with 2 digital clear-qam capable tuners, and determining the mapping to physical channels to logical comcast channels is always a challenge. I do use the Silicon Dust QAM tuning data to help me out, but it sounds like there might be a better way. Thanks for your help!

Marc

kevini

04-23-09, 04:13 PM

Do the DTA's also have guide data? I haven't looked very hard but so far I haven't seen it in the transport stream.
They do not have guide data. They only have the channel abbreviated name and of course the channel number.

MikeSM

04-23-09, 05:36 PM

04-23-09, 06:47 PM

[removed]

kevini

04-23-09, 07:13 PM

My co-worker told me that the remote control for the DTA has only "up" and "down" for channel control, no numeric pad. Is that what everyone has?

Mine has numeric buttons just like this unboxing:
http://picasaweb.google.com/virgegx/ComcastDTAUnboxing#5275391671338396386

04-23-09, 07:30 PM

Mine has numeric buttons just like this unboxing:
http://picasaweb.google.com/virgegx/ComcastDTAUnboxing#5275391671338396386

Thanks for the link. I showed it to my co-worker, and that's what he has. He was actually complaining about something else.

marc.aronson

04-24-09, 12:14 AM

Silicon dust is coding up just what dlou99 is working on, and so if you use an hdhomerun tuner, it should be able to do the QAM mapping pretty much automatically.

It has been reported in some markets that the inband QAM SCTE-65 stream contains HD channel QAM mapping data too, but that does not appear to be the policy here.

I would have thought that comcast would have pushed the full OOB data stream down the in-band qam carrier, so guide and other data would have come along with the VCT's as well, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

I don't have the hdhomerun. My tuners a PCI cards.

Marc

TPeterson

04-24-09, 12:44 AM

I'm sending DViCo a sample of the channel to see if they can implement the same sort of solution on either or both of TViX and FusionHDTV. ;)

dlou99

04-24-09, 04:04 AM

Dlou99, I am not familiar with some of the terminology you have used, but are you saying that there is a way to determine the network that is on each of the channels after a scan? If so, I would like to better understand how to do this. I have a mythtv box with 2 digital clear-qam capable tuners, and determining the mapping to physical channels to logical comcast channels is always a challenge. I do use the Silicon Dust QAM tuning data to help me out, but it sounds like there might be a better way. Thanks for your help!

Since you have Linux, here's how to at least find one of the tables:

Go to http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net and download/compile the latest tarball. I've got PCI tuners so I'm not familiar with the tools available for the HDHR. Tune to a frequency you think has the data and dump about 65 seconds to a file (they seem to broadcast the NTT and S-VCT tables every minute on the minute). If you can filter on PID 0x1ffc, all the better. Then do
dvbsnoop -s ts -if yourdumpfile 0x1ffc | less
and scroll down until you see "Section table: 195". That's the Network Text Table. It shows you the station names and at least some of that should be human readable to you. The S-VCT and NIT tables tell you what frequencies those station names belong to, but those aren't as human readable.

If you have a PCI/PCIe or USB tuner/demodulator, then you can just have dvbsnoop read it directly by doing
dvbsnoop 0x1ffc | less
but you might want to wait until just before the top of the minute and you'll want to search for "Table_ID: 195" instead.

I'm working on coding the tables into dvbsnoop and scandvb (from the dvb-utils package). The former can be used by you HDHR folk out there, but unfortunately dvbsnoop doesn't seem to be maintained any longer so I have no one to submit patches. dvb-utils does seem to be maintained, but that one won't help the HDHR users unless there's a dvb compatible kernel driver for it that I don't know about.

So far I've got the NTT coded into dvbsnoop and it works fine, although Comcast seems to be deviating from the spec a little bit. Next up will be S-VCT. NIT might already be in there, so that might just be a matter of a little tweaking.

MikeSM

04-24-09, 10:47 AM

Filtering and capture is really easy on the HDHR. Look at the posts in this thread (here: http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6403&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15) on the topic, and if you have an HDHR you should be able to create a dump of the inband QAM carrier pretty easily. I think you should be able to analyze this with the dvb tools under linux as well.

I expect the next beta of the HDHR will have mapping based on DTA information included. It will nice if the dvico people implemented something too, but my experience is their support for doing channel mapping is quite poor compared with the HDHR.

EDIT: forgot to include the link the first time

fremontuser

04-24-09, 11:16 AM

Does anyone else here pay for Comcast's Jade channel? Have an old analog tv that was receiving it via a STB. Just bought new LCD TV with digital tuner. I was told that I can get Jade onto the new TV without a STB but have not been able to find it. Any ideas?

MikeSM

04-24-09, 01:59 PM

walk

04-24-09, 10:07 PM

Fri 24 Giants at AZ game on KNTV11 looks like it did for that pre-season game - low-def but widescreen.. uhghh what?

dlou99

04-25-09, 03:02 AM

I expect the next beta of the HDHR will have mapping based on DTA information included. It will nice if the dvico people implemented something too, but my experience is their support for doing channel mapping is quite poor compared with the HDHR.

Too late. I'm already done. I don't have an HDHR anyway.

Attached is my patch that will allow dvbsnoop to parse the SCTE65 tables. It doesn't parse all of them but rather just the ones I see that Comcast gives me.

After you're done patching and compiling, you'll want to do:
./dvbsnoop -f 0xc4 -m 0xff -pd 3 -nph 0x1ffc | tee vct.txt
then wait until the top of the minute for stuff to spew out (the VCT seems to spew every minute on the minute). After it's done spewing, you can hit break and look at the table. Mine spews out something that looks like this:
Virtual_channel_number: 2 (0x00000002)
Application_virtual_channel: no
Path_select: path 1
Transport_type: MPEG2
Channel_type: normal
Source_ID: 4212 (0x1074)
CDS_reference: 114 (0x0072)
Program_number: 1 (0x0001)
MMS_reference: 4 (0x04)

Virtual_channel_number: 3 (0x00000003)
Application_virtual_channel: no
Path_select: path 1
Transport_type: MPEG2
Channel_type: normal
Source_ID: 5063 (0x13c7)
CDS_reference: 84 (0x0054)
Program_number: 1 (0x0001)
MMS_reference: 4 (0x04)

Virtual_channel_number: 4 (0x00000004)
Application_virtual_channel: no
Path_select: path 1
...etc

The Virtual channel number is the number that the DTA, zap2it listings, the local newspaper, etc displays to the user. MMS reference is a pointer to a table that tells you if it's QAM64, QAM256, etc but we all already know everything is QAM256 on Comcast so we can safely ignore that for now. The CDS reference is the pointer into the frequency table so that you can look up what frequency to tune to. You'd normally build the frequency table from the CDS section of the NIT, but my Comcast headend has very conveniently used a CDS mapping that corresponds to this:
http://www.tvtower.com/Commercial%20Television%20Frequencies.html
which is the regular old analog channel number to frequency table. The Program number is the MPEG-TS program number (PAT entry, for those in the know).

So from the example table above, where people with DTA's would just enter "3", those of us with a clear QAM tuner would tune to "84.1". If you want to know what the name of channel 3 is without referring to zap2it, your local newspaper or a DTA, you'd take the Source_ID (5063 in the above example) and use it to look into the NTT, which you can get by doing this:
./dvbsnoop -f 0xc3 -m 0xff -pd 3 -nph 0x1ffc | tee ntt.txt

Again, wait until the top of the minute for a burst of data and then hit ctrl-c.
Here's a snippet of what I see.

...
Source_id: 11616 (0x2d60)
Extra_Comcast_junk: 1792 (0x0700)
Source_name: TBS-W

Source_id: 4258 (0x10a2)
Extra_Comcast_junk: 1280 (0x0500)
Source_name: FSE

Source_id: 5063 (0x13c7)
Extra_Comcast_junk: 1536 (0x0600)
Source_name: KNTV

Source_id: 10096 (0x2770)
Extra_Comcast_junk: 1792 (0x0700)
Source_name: KGO-7
...etc

And from this we see that 84.1 has SourceID=5063 which is KNTV.

marc.aronson

04-25-09, 11:10 AM

dlou99, this is great stuff -- thank you! Both of my digital QAM tuners are PCI -- I don't have an HDHR.

I downloaded dvbsnoop and applied your patch. I am able to run the scans you've outlined above and get the data -- this is fantastic! I have two questions for you. I've also included some additional information for the mythtv folks out there.

Question1: I don't see any of the hidef channels in my scan. I know they are there and in the clear for the locals, as I am already able to record them with my mythtv setup. I receive hidef channels 702, 703, 704, 705, 707, 709 & 712 "in the clear". Any ideas as to why all the hidefs are missing?

Question2: Is there some way to distinguish which channels are "in the clear" vs. encrypted?

For those with a mythtv setup, here is a bit of info you may find helpful:

1. The "Program_number" reported by dvbscan corresponds to the "serviceid" column of the mythtv "channel" table.

2. The "CDS_reference" reported by dvbscan corresponds to the "freqid" column of the mythtv "channel" table.

Thanks again for what you've already done and any additional help you can provide to my question, above.

Marc

TPeterson

04-25-09, 12:31 PM

Attached is my patch that will allow dvbsnoop to parse the SCTE65 tables.Thanks!

One minor point regarding:MMS reference is a pointer to a table that tells you if it's QAM64, QAM256, etc but we all already know everything is QAM256 on Comcast so we can safely ignore that for now.In fact, some Comcast channels are 64QAM. And the one that has the DTA data for me (rf 95) is one of them! ;)

TPeterson

04-25-09, 12:35 PM

Question1: I don't see any of the hidef channels in my scan...?

Question2: Is there some way to distinguish which channels are "in the clear" vs. encrypted?Marc, from reports elsewhere it seems that some Comcast headends are sending this info for the HDTV channels, but others are sending only the ones that the DTAs can handle, i.e., SDTV channels. By the same logic, since the DTAs cannot decrypt anything, I expect that this data source contains only unencrypted channel information.

dlou99

04-25-09, 12:48 PM

Question1: I don't see any of the hidef channels in my scan. I know they are there and in the clear for the locals, as I am already able to record them with my mythtv setup. I receive hidef channels 702, 703, 704, 705, 707, 709 & 712 "in the clear". Any ideas as to why all the hidefs are missing?

These are SCTE-65 tables and are supposed to be carried OOB. Since these are in-band, they are obviously intended for DTA's. You can see further evidence of this by doing:
./dvbsnoop -f 0xd9 -m 0xff 0x1ffc | less
(again, once a minute on the minute).

Anyway, since DTA's can't do hidef it would makes sense for hidef not to be in the tables. Besides, all those clearQAM hidef that you mentioned have PSIP now, so you just have to scan separately using a different tool (dvbscan/scandvb/atscscan/mythtv) to catch everything.

Question2: Is there some way to distinguish which channels are "in the clear" vs. encrypted?

Same answer. Since DTA's can't do encryption, they're all clear.

Speaking of the 0xd9 tables, I see entries for PACEDC50X_0115. This is what everyone has right now, right? Interestingly, I also see tables for ThomDM and MOTODTA1_V010800_M1201. Anybody have one of these yet? How do they compare with the Pace?

dlou99

04-25-09, 12:57 PM

One minor point regarding...In fact, some Comcast channels are 64QAM. And the one that has the DTA data for me (rf 95) is one of them! ;)

Well, that's news to me. My S-VCT has nothing but QAM256. :o

Barovelli

04-25-09, 01:49 PM

Interestingly, I also see tables for ThomDM and MOTODTA1_V010800_M1201. Anybody have one of these yet? How do they compare with the Pace?

There area some in for test. Not much different on the surface, both physically and picture wise, except for the power adaptors that have different voltages :mad: Remote is the same.

Brian Conrad

04-25-09, 03:42 PM

In my area with HDHR I found those tables on channel 116 program 4. I'll try the patch to see what happens otherwise I will look at the spec and see if I can write a Pythion script to extract the data and list in a more usuable way.

MikeSM

04-25-09, 04:30 PM

There area some in for test. Not much different on the surface, both physically and picture wise, except for the power adaptors that have different voltages :mad: Remote is the same.

They use different voltages? What a pain... This stuff was supposed to be dirt simple and plug and play. Oh well...

JJ93rx7

04-25-09, 06:39 PM

marc.aronson

04-25-09, 06:43 PM

Great stuff -- thanks for all the answers. I have a bash script that grabs the data, parses it and generates a table that I can use to automate my mythtv clear-qam setup. I do have a few follow-up questions:

1. I have 3 different PCI-based tuners: Airstar, Kworld-115 and a Pinnacle card. dvbsnoop only seems to detect the data when I run it against the kworld-115 card. dvbsnoop just sits there and never reports anything when I run it against any of the other two cards. Any thoughts on why this would happen and how I can fix this? My daughter's machine has a pinnacle card...

2. Sometimes a station will show up multiple times with the same virtual channel number, but on multiple frequencies. I believe this is because some stations are sent on multiple frequencies as a "backup". Are others seeing this?

3. Sometimes a station will show up multiple times on the same frequency, but with multiple virtual channel numbers. Are others seeing this, and any idea why?

Thanks again!

Marc

MikeSM

04-26-09, 12:38 AM

MikeSM

04-26-09, 12:40 AM

dlou99

04-26-09, 01:10 AM

1. I have 3 different PCI-based tuners: Airstar, Kworld-115 and a Pinnacle card. dvbsnoop only seems to detect the data when I run it against the kworld-115 card. dvbsnoop just sits there and never reports anything when I run it against any of the other two cards. Any thoughts on why this would happen and how I can fix this? My daughter's machine has a pinnacle card...

Could be that the demux filters in the driver for the other two cards aren't working right. Try taking out the filter (-f) and mask (-m) options. You're sure all 3 are tuned to the same frequency prior to running dvbsnoop, right?

2. Sometimes a station will show up multiple times with the same virtual channel number, but on multiple frequencies. I believe this is because some stations are sent on multiple frequencies as a "backup". Are others seeing this?

3. Sometimes a station will show up multiple times on the same frequency, but with multiple virtual channel numbers. Are others seeing this, and any idea why?

I don't know about your headend, but mine is spewing several virtual channel tables (VCT's). 10, to be exact. Each has a unique VCT_ID, though. The one that seems relevant to me has VCT_ID=0.

marc.aronson

04-26-09, 02:02 AM

Could be that the demux filters in the driver for the other two cards aren't working right. Try taking out the filter (-f) and mask (-m) options. You're sure all 3 are tuned to the same frequency prior to running dvbsnoop, right?
I didn't realize that I had to tune to a specific frequency prior to running the scan. Question: What frequency do I need to tune it to and can your recommend a command for doing the tuning? I'm currently running the following commands, one at a time, and waiting until the spew out data at the top of the minute:

dvbsnoop -adapter 1 -f 0xc4 -m 0xff -pd 3 -nph 0x1ffc

dvbsnoop -adapter 1 -f 0xc3 -m 0xff -pd 3 -nph 0x1ffc

I don't know about your headend, but mine is spewing several virtual channel tables (VCT's). 10, to be exact. Each has a unique VCT_ID, though. The one that seems relevant to me has VCT_ID=0.
You hit the nail on the head -- I am getting numerous Virtual channel tables, they each have a VCT_ID and they don't all map my channels the right way. As an example, some of the tables map SciFI to 68; others map it to 160. 68 is the correct answer for me.

There are a total of 10 unique VCT_ID's on my network. It looks like ID 3055 is a best match for me, as 3055 is the only table that maps the local access channel (virtual channel 15) to the sourceid that corresponds to my area (Cupertino). The other VCT_ID's map channel 15 to other areas like Palo Alto. By limiting myself to VCT_ID=3055, I no longer have any duplicate channels.

Thanks again for all the help -- this is great stuff.

Marc

dlou99

04-26-09, 02:22 AM

Question: What frequency do I need to tune it to and can your recommend a command for doing the tuning?

Since you already have a VCT for your headend, how about tuning to the frequency with the source_name=dta_cdl? Do you have one named that in your VCT? Otherwise, you'll just have to scan the frequencies looking for PID=0x1ffc. As for a command, azap (in the dvb-utils package) is the standard one for dvb tuning. I wasn't all that happy with it though so I wrote my own.

MikeSM

04-26-09, 10:09 AM

I didn't realize that I had to tune to a specific frequency prior to running the scan. Question: What frequency do I need to tune it to and can your recommend a command for doing the tuning? I'm currently running the following commands, one at a time, and waiting until the spew out data at the top of the minute:

dvbsnoop -adapter 1 -f 0xc4 -m 0xff -pd 3 -nph 0x1ffc

dvbsnoop -adapter 1 -f 0xc3 -m 0xff -pd 3 -nph 0x1ffc

You hit the nail on the head -- I am getting numerous Virtual channel tables, they each have a VCT_ID and they don't all map my channels the right way. As an example, some of the tables map SciFI to 68; others map it to 160. 68 is the correct answer for me.

There are a total of 10 unique VCT_ID's on my network. It looks like ID 3055 is a best match for me, as 3055 is the only table that maps the local access channel (virtual channel 15) to the sourceid that corresponds to my area (Cupertino). The other VCT_ID's map channel 15 to other areas like Palo Alto. By limiting myself to VCT_ID=3055, I no longer have any duplicate channels.

Thanks again for all the help -- this is great stuff.

Marc

If you look in the guide, the SD SCIFI is on both 68 and 160. I think the reason for this is not all system had scifi on analog due to capacity issues, but every system had it on digital on 160.

Barovelli

04-26-09, 11:36 AM

This is my second post. Is any one else experiercing the same problem or is it my cable box, television? I had comcast out and they thought it was a KION problem. Last night it was really acting up on Two and Half Men.

I'm still seeing it - showed up on Survivor and Criminal Minds. I've heard nothing back from the wizards in the head end yet.

marc.aronson

04-26-09, 01:47 PM

Really? Wow, you should post this! A lot of folks will be interested in it. SageTV and VMC users could use it too.

MikeSM, I just realized I lost track of your request. I've attached a preliminary version to this page as a ".txt" file. Its actually a bash script for use on Linux. You need to edit the top of the script and set 4 variables -- its documented in the script. The output file will look like this:

srcid VCT_ID freqid service channum name
4212 0 114 1 2 KTVU
5063 0 84 1 3 KNTV
4213 0 114 2 4 KRON
4214 0 114 3 5 KPIX
4215 0 84 2 6 KICU
4216 0 114 4 7 KGO
4217 0 114 8 8 KTSF
4218 0 114 5 9 KQED
4219 0 84 4 10 KTEH
4220 0 114 10 12 KBCW
4221 0 114 7 13 KOFY
4222 0 114 6 14 KDTV
4162 0 97 5 15 Public Access 1

The primary sort key is the VCT_ID, second sort key is the virtual channel # (channum). I see 10 different VCT (Virtual Channel Tables) in my area and it appears that VCT ID 3055 is the one that maps to my channel lineup. As soon as I sort through a few other problems I will be adding code to automatically load the data into the mythtv channel table...

Marc

marc.aronson

04-26-09, 02:01 PM

Since you already have a VCT for your headend, how about tuning to the frequency with the source_name=dta_cdl? Do you have one named that in your VCT? Otherwise, you'll just have to scan the frequencies looking for PID=0x1ffc. As for a command, azap (in the dvb-utils package) is the standard one for dvb tuning. I wasn't all that happy with it though so I wrote my own.

I've got azap and I've tried some experiments, but I'm not making any progress and I think I'm getting confused. As a reminder, all works well on the kworld PCI card; the scans don't work with the airstar and the Pinnacle PCI cards. Let me ask a few questions:

1. It sounds like you are saying that the tuner must be tuned to a specific "channel" before running dvbsnoop. Is this correct? If so, why does it seem that my kworld tuner is able to find the VCT and NTT data without being pre-tuned to a specific channel?

2. I ran "dvbsnoop -s pidscan" against all 3 of my tuners. The output from the kworld pidscan includes a line that reads like this: "PID found: 8188 (0x1ffc) [SECTION: SCTE-65 Network Information Table(NIT)]". The output from the airstar pidscan does not contain this line. I also tried this with the Pinnacle card -- the pidscan did not return anything at all. I've attached the output from the kworld pidscan and the airstar pidscan, in case that helps.

I really appreciate your help on this -- I'm trying to get to a fully automated process that I can also make available to others.

Marc

walk

04-26-09, 06:07 PM

Well... if you guys get tired of hacking the matrix, DirecTV is offering $100 referral fee... Let me know! :) It's great, all channels have regular numbering, 2 is 2, 11 is 11... without learning to program in Unix... :cool:

marc.aronson

04-26-09, 08:34 PM

PerkyNot

04-26-09, 09:44 PM

walk

04-26-09, 09:49 PM

its a hobby and I enjoy it. Oh I know, and more power to you, but it's a bit much to ask of Joe and Jill Sixpack who are asking "where the hell did all my channels go?".

keenan

04-26-09, 09:52 PM

I noticed a message light on my Comcast DCT700 which says As off 4/27 will be Dropping KGO PLUS 194 and launch Living Well on HD channel 715 . I looked at the Guide and noticed that the Speed channel 731 is on the Guide now. Can I assume that those of us who didn't get the HD channels last fall start will start getting them? My HD box is a TiVo HD and I am not getting the channel. Anyone with a Comcast box in the Redwood Shores, San Carlos, Belmont area getting the HD Speed Channel now?

John

I was just going to ask about the Live Well HD channel. Apparently KGO thinks their HD looks so good they went ahead and launched another HD channel, sharing the existing bandwidth with the "main" HD channel and the weather radar channel, nice. :rolleyes:

http://livewellhd.com/story?id=6777600

MikeSM

04-27-09, 12:15 AM

I noticed a message light on my Comcast DCT700 which says As off 4/27 will be Dropping KGO PLUS 194 and launch Living Well on HD channel 715 . I looked at the Guide and noticed that the Speed channel 731 is on the Guide now. Can I assume that those of us who didn't get the HD channels last fall start will start getting them? My HD box is a TiVo HD and I am not getting the channel. Anyone with a Comcast box in the Redwood Shores, San Carlos, Belmont area getting the HD Speed Channel now?

John

I'm in the san Mateo county system, and I get the SPEEDHD channel.

dlou99

04-27-09, 03:34 AM

dlou99, well I finally figured out how to use azap to tune the airstar tuner to the frequency reported for channel "dta_cdl". Its on frequency 93000000. I set up a channels.conf file with the single line "aaa:93000000:QAM_256:3968:3969:61", tuned to channel "aaa" and I am able to get the vct & ntt data! Unfortunately, it doesn't help for the Pinnacle card. Any thoughts on this? Also, is there anything I can do to automatically determine what frequency needs to be set to get the vct & ntt data? I'd like to fully automate the process so that others don't need to struggle.

Using the lowest common denominator toolset (dvb-utils in Ubuntu, dvb-apps generally everywhere else), the way you'd do it is scandvb -A2 -U /usr/share/dvb-apps/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 > channels.conf (or if using Ubuntu) scan ... /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/atsc/... That generates a list of frequencies with digital data on them. Then you'd use azap to tune one by one the frequencies in channels.conf and 'dvbsnoop -timeout 6000 -pd 1 -n 1 0x1ffc' to see if the PID containing the tables is on a given frequency.

But I'll be the first to admit that it's pretty cumbersome doing it that way. However, just tuning to a frequency is really trivial if you know ioctl's. As a matter of fact, I'll do it right now.

tippity tappity tippity tappity...

Here you go. I'd have done it in perl, except I'm not exactly sure how the ioctl structs look in that language. Just do a.out /dev/dvb/<frontend_device> <freq_in_hz> to tune to an RF channel of a given frequency. It'll report "locked" or "no lock" depending if it's a digital channel. If it's locked, just run 'dvbsnoop -timeout 6000 -pd 1 -n 1 0x1ffc' to check for the tables.

Even easier would be to code this stuff straight into Myth, but it's been ages since I've done development on it. They were pretty cool about accepting my code, but I have a feeling this stuff would probably be rejected since Comcast isn't complying with the standard. Heck, I'd probably reject it if I were the maintainer :)

Also, I took a look at your mythsnoop script. If you are looking for just one VCT_ID, you can filter for it. The filter parameters you want to use is "-f 0xc4.00.00.XX.YY -m 0xff.00.0f.ff.ff" where XX and YY are the upper and lower bytes of the VCT_ID in hex. That'll give you just the VCM. If you want both the VCM and the DCM, change the mask to 0xff.00.00.ff.ff

nikeykid

04-27-09, 03:39 AM

I was just going to ask about the Live Well HD channel. Apparently KGO thinks their HD looks so good they went ahead and launched another HD channel, sharing the existing bandwidth with the "main" HD channel and the weather radar channel, nice. :rolleyes:

http://livewellhd.com/story?id=6777600

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Mikef5

04-27-09, 12:25 PM

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Sorry Nikeykid, it looks like it is true. I just direct connected my Vizio ( bypassing the box ) and it's there in all it's HD glory :confused:.
It's on 7-2 ( same as OTA ) in my loop.

Don't know why it's not showing on the cable box, since it's already being sent out in the loop but I'd suspect that it will be soon.

I know Comcast has no choice but to show this channel but IMHO a true waste of bandwidth.

Laters,
Mikef5

Brian Conrad

04-27-09, 12:51 PM

walk

04-27-09, 01:12 PM

Or, maybe to make 720p look like "true" HD. :)

keenan

04-27-09, 01:17 PM

Theres also been a lot of chat over on the programming section about FOX using edge enhancement which I first noticed when I had guests here two weeks ago and was showing them Fringe. However the complaints may be reaching FOX execs and the EE may be going away. Some think the EE is there to make HD signals downrezed to an analog set look better. Just what we need. :(

Yes, been following that and it looks like it will be fixed. The KGO "problem" will likely stay a problem. Haven't watched any ABC yet, but some were saying the NBA games yesterday on ABC were not looking so good.

keenan

04-27-09, 01:23 PM

Sorry Nikeykid, it looks like it is true. I just direct connected my Vizio ( bypassing the box ) and it's there in all it's HD glory :confused:.
It's on 7-2 ( same as OTA ) in my loop.

Don't know why it's not showing on the cable box, since it's already being sent out in the loop but I'd suspect that it will be soon.

I know Comcast has no choice but to show this channel but IMHO a true waste of bandwidth.

Laters,
Mikef5
If you're an HD fan, it truly is a waste of bandwidth given that it's 6 half hour shows looped 5 times a day with the rest of the time filled with paid programming. The real kick in the gut is that all this content will also be available via the web and to mobile devices.

If you're a Disney shareholder of course, it's a great idea, a way to squeeze some more ad dollars out of the same 24 hr period.

Mikef5

04-27-09, 01:48 PM

If you're an HD fan, it truly is a waste of bandwidth given that it's 6 half hour shows looped 5 times a day with the rest of the time filled with paid programming. The real kick in the gut is that all this content will also be available via the web and to mobile devices.

If you're a Disney shareholder of course, it's a great idea, a way to squeeze some more ad dollars out of the same 24 hr period.

A little update on this channel. It actually is being shown with the Comcast box, it's channel 194, and it is in HD, it's not in the 700's channels that the rest of the HD channels are. I would assume that eventually it will be moved to a 700 channel.

While I probably won't watch this channel, I don't fault Comcast for it, it's ABC that is requiring that it be carried so I'll be sending a nice email to them to let them know how much I like their new HD channel and what a waste of bandwidth it is :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

keenan

04-27-09, 01:55 PM

A little update on this channel. It actually is being shown with the Comcast box, it's channel 194, and it is in HD, it's not in the 700's channels that the rest of the HD channels are. I would assume that eventually it will be moved to a 700 channel.

While I probably won't watch this channel, I don't fault Comcast for it, it's ABC that is requiring that it be carried so I'll be sending a nice email to them to let them know how much I like their new HD channel and what a waste of bandwidth it is :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

Nobody's faulting Comcast, this is all on Disney/ABC.

They must have switched over last night as yesterday 194 was still 480i. Doesn't look very good either, jerky and artifacted.

Mikef5

04-27-09, 02:05 PM

Nobody's faulting Comcast, this is all on Disney/ABC.

They must have switched over last night as yesterday 194 was still 480i. Doesn't look very good either, jerky and artifacted.
Jim, I realize that, I was just trying to get people to email ABC and bitch at them, It probably won't do any good but it is really cathartic :)

The programing reminds me of the programing on my dentist's tv in the waiting room, really corny medical facts but no plot line except for the pain that I'm about to experience :p;)

Laters,
Mikef5

DAP

04-27-09, 03:26 PM

Using the lowest common denominator toolset (dvb-utils in Ubuntu, dvb-apps generally everywhere else), the way you'd do it is scandvb -A2 -U /usr/share/dvb-apps/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 > channels.conf
(or if using Ubuntu) scan ... /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/atsc/... That generates a list of frequencies with digital data on them. Then you'd use azap to tune one by one the frequencies in channels.conf and 'dvbsnoop -timeout 6000 -pd 1 -n 1 0x1ffc' to see if the PID containing the tables is on a given frequency.

I'm using Ubuntu and tried:
scan -A2 -U /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 > channels.conf

I got:
using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0'
main:2273: FATAL: failed to open '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0': 16 Device or resource busy

Do I need to stop the MythTV backend to run this?

Brian Conrad

04-27-09, 04:36 PM

If you're an HD fan, it truly is a waste of bandwidth given that it's 6 half hour shows looped 5 times a day with the rest of the time filled with paid programming. The real kick in the gut is that all this content will also be available via the web and to mobile devices.

If you're a Disney shareholder of course, it's a great idea, a way to squeeze some more ad dollars out of the same 24 hr period.

According to contacts in the entertainment industry network budgets have been slashed 40-50% for shows due to the economy. I suspect that more networks will start repeating shows which isn't a bad idea especially for those without DVRs. The cable networks arleady do that.

This channel is not yet showing in my area on 715 but is on the lower channel (190 I think) but in HD instead of SD. Yesterday it was still SD but today tuning in with HDHR it is HD. They were showing infomercials when I checked and yes there was noticable microblocking.

Tom Koegel

04-27-09, 10:41 PM

Is Comcast offering an HD feed of tonight's Giants-Dodgers game? Or is it low def only? I'll sure be glad when hockey season is over . . . maybe the Sharks will oblige tonight. ;)

stormking

04-27-09, 11:00 PM

Is Comcast offering an HD feed of tonight's Giants-Dodgers game? Or is it low def only? I'll sure be glad when hockey season is over . . . maybe the Sharks will oblige tonight. ;)

I'm looking for the QAM channel for the Giants game myself... it appears it should be on 40/110.6 (CSN) but it was bumped to CSNP Comcast SportsNet Plus (410/QAM?)... but according to:
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui/US:94105

It is not available. Anyone know the QAM channel for the game if available? thanks.

clau

04-27-09, 11:48 PM

TNT-HD frequency?

I have a weird problem. We have two TV's equipped with CableCards. On one, it picks up TNT-HD (737) fine. On the other, 737 shows "channel not available". Called Comcast, talked to the technician, addressed the card a few times, still no 737 on that CableCard. I'll exchange this card for a new one, I suppose. Does anyone know what is the actual frequency of TNT-HD in Sunnyvale? Just wondering if it at a very high frequency.

stormking

04-28-09, 12:14 AM

marc.aronson

04-28-09, 12:30 AM

I'm using Ubuntu and tried:
scan -A2 -U /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 > channels.conf

I got:
using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0'
main:2273: FATAL: failed to open '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0': 16 Device or resource busy

Do I need to stop the MythTV backend to run this?

Yes, the mythbackend opens the tuner when it starts. There is a setting in the myth setup program where you can select "open on demand" for the video card.

Marc

MikeSM

04-28-09, 01:03 AM

I hear Comcast reads this forum, so Comcast, I have a question for you.

It appears that after analyzing the .WTV MPEG files recorded by 7MC, certain meta data pertaining to Interlacing is missing on some less popular channels (SciFi for instance). My theory is that this is related to a "flickering" issue exhibited on 7MC x64 (Windows 7 Media Center 64bit) on these channels. Its like a blinking, flashing or flickering - multiple flashes a second at times. I guessed this was some type of Interlacing issue so I used MediaInfo to analyze the MPEG streams and this is what I found.

Daily Show (QAM) - no problems, no flickering:

General
Complete name : C:\Users\Public\Recorded TV\The Daily Show With Jon Stewart_COMEDYP_2009_04_21_23_02_00.wtv
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
File size : 522 MiB

Video
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 15.0 Mbps
Width : 528 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.975

SciFi (QAM) - Lost - lots of flickering and flashing in 7MC x64.

General
Complete name : C:\Users\Public\Recorded TV\Lost_SCIFIP_2009_04_24_16_00_00.wtv
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
File size : 1.35 GiB

Video
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 15.0 Mbps
Width : 528 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.975

Notice the missing Scan Type and Scan Order? My theory is Comcast is sending an MPEG stream that Windows does not know how to correctly deinterlace and thus exhibits flickering upon playback. So why on presumably less popular channels is the MPEG stream varing? The resolutions are the same, where is the Interlacing meta-data?

It's going to be hard to answer that question unless we know a lot more about what (presumably QAM) tuner you are using.

I do have an issue on some of the SD channels with both the R5000 and the HDHR where the flags sent seem to indicate the program is progressive when it's really interlaced. This causes SageTv to not deinterlace the program properly. Perhaps you are running into the same problem?

The sage guys are looking to hack around the problem and force proper detection by disregarding the broken data for the program and scanning it instead. It's not really an issue for cable STB's since they aren't trying to decode DVD and BR and other kinds of video.

You should probably file a report with microsoft and see if they can also code a workaround on this. Even though the Comcast formatting is in the wrong, they don't support the use of clear QAM tuning, so you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the them to fix it.

marc.aronson

04-28-09, 01:39 AM

The sage guys are looking to hack around the problem and force proper detection by disregarding the broken data for the program and scanning it instead. It's not really an issue for cable STB's since they aren't trying to decode DVD and BR and other kinds of video.

FYI -- the folks in mythtv addressed this issue. Their initial implementation of "automatic interlace detection" was a disaster because it depended on the bits being set properly, and as you've seen, the bits aren't always set properly. I don't know how they did it but the latest release doesn't appear to be dependent on the bits being set properly in the transmitted stream and it works quite well.

Marc

aforkosh

04-28-09, 02:17 AM

clau

04-28-09, 02:27 AM

Check how tightly your coax is screwed in for the second TV. I had that happen on several channels, and the problem was that the coax was loose by a fraction of a turn at my splitter.

I checked the connection already. That is the reason I asked for the frequency. If the TNT-HD frequency is either at the lowest or at the highest end of the spectrum, then it could be connectors or cables or amplifier issues. If that frequency is not at the ends, then it is something else, like a faulty cable card.

MikeSM

04-28-09, 01:02 PM

FYI -- the folks in mythtv addressed this issue. Their initial implementation of "automatic interlace detection" was a disaster because it depended on the bits being set properly, and as you've seen, the bits aren't always set properly. I don't know how they did it but the latest release doesn't appear to be dependent on the bits being set properly in the transmitted stream and it works quite well.

Marc

Sounds like Microsoft has a bunch of work to do to fix this. Looks like some 7RC trouble tickets are needed.

DAP

04-28-09, 02:23 PM

Yes, the mythbackend opens the tuner when it starts. There is a setting in the myth setup program where you can select "open on demand" for the video card.

Marc

Ok, this worked, thanks. I found that the frequency list was in a different directory though. Under Ubuntu, I had to run:
scan -A2 -U /usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 > channels.conf

DAP

04-28-09, 03:35 PM

I think I understand most of the output of scan, but there are a few I don't get.
An example line from the file:
[008-0003]:531000000:QAM_256:1984:1986:3

Colons separate fields
First field is a unique name for the channel (sometimes a human readable name extracted from the stream, but usually a machine generated name)
Second field is the frequency of the channel
Third field is the modulation scheem
Fourth field is one I don't understand
Fifth field is one I don't understand
Sixth field I think is the subchannel number.

Also, I have downloaded the tarball and the patch for dvbsnoop, but I am enough of a newby at linux, that I don't know what to do with them to extract the tarball, apply the patch and compile the program. A pointer to a howto would be appreciated.

Is it possible to move this discussion to its own thread? it seems only tangentially related to SF Bay area Comcast, and it may be of interest to people from other areas. It is also thoroughly interleaved with on-topic discussions, distracting to both those who want to follow this discussion, and those who want to talk about Comcast.

stormking

04-28-09, 05:04 PM

You should probably file a report with microsoft and see if they can also code a workaround on this. Even though the Comcast formatting is in the wrong, they don't support the use of clear QAM tuning, so you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the them to fix it.

Its hard to blame Microsoft when the underlying source is foobarred. Its like saying fix your player to play bad streams. That's great if players can create a work around to still play the malformed interlaced streams, but if the MPEG data I'm looking at originates with Comcast, then they in fact do need to fix it.

And when I fork out upwards of $200/month to Comcast - yeah, I do expect them to fix it. I hear too much of protecting of Comcast - like we should feel lucky to be ripped off of $200/month for the service we get. For $200/month I want a proper Interlaced flag in the stream.

I am using the Hauppauge 2250 QAM tuner. And from the few posts here, it seems it is a Comcast problem not a tuner one if others see interlacing issues on other tuners and other HTPC software. It would be interesting if others could also use MediaInfo to analyze your streams (from Sage or Myth or 7MC) to confirm the missing Interlaced data.

Why would it be so unreasonable to have Comcast fix this? For all we know this early in the digital conversion, it could be on the list of things to fix. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a beta tester - both for Comcast and Microsoft. I'm running the latest OS W7 x64 7077 with the latest QAM service where analog is not even shutdown yet - so I do think it is reasonable for Comcast to fix this, especially when I look at my bill every month.

04-28-09, 06:07 PM

Why would it be so unreasonable to have Comcast fix this?

It would be nice for Comcast to fix it, but Comcast is not responsible for compatibility issues related to your own hardware/software.

MikeSM

04-28-09, 06:28 PM

Its hard to blame Microsoft when the underlying source is foobarred. Its like saying fix your player to play bad streams. That's great if players can create a work around to still play the malformed interlaced streams, but if the MPEG data I'm looking at originates with Comcast, then they in fact do need to fix it.

And when I fork out upwards of $200/month to Comcast - yeah, I do expect them to fix it. I hear too much of protecting of Comcast - like we should feel lucky to be ripped off of $200/month for the service we get. For $200/month I want a proper Interlaced flag in the stream.

I am using the Hauppauge 2250 QAM tuner. And from the few posts here, it seems it is a Comcast problem not a tuner one if others see interlacing issues on other tuners and other HTPC software. It would be interesting if others could also use MediaInfo to analyze your streams (from Sage or Myth or 7MC) to confirm the missing Interlaced data.

Why would it be so unreasonable to have Comcast fix this? For all we know this early in the digital conversion, it could be on the list of things to fix. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a beta tester - both for Comcast and Microsoft. I'm running the latest OS W7 x64 7077 with the latest QAM service where analog is not even shutdown yet - so I do think it is reasonable for Comcast to fix this, especially when I look at my bill every month.

Well, I am just trying to be practical. Yes, Comcast is doing the wrong thing. But if you wait for them to fix it I think you'll be waiting a long time. Anyone who wants to sell products in this space will therefore likely have to work around the problem.

But hey, call them up and complain... It's easier on everyone if they fix it, but they think of the cable video service as a closed system - they do the bare minimum required by law for interoperability with 3rd party hardware/software.

marc.aronson

04-28-09, 07:29 PM

Well, I am just trying to be practical. Yes, Comcast is doing the wrong thing. But if you wait for them to fix it I think you'll be waiting a long time. Anyone who wants to sell products in this space will therefore likely have to work around the problem.

But hey, call them up and complain... It's easier on everyone if they fix it, but they think of the cable video service as a closed system - they do the bare minimum required by law for interoperability with 3rd party hardware/software.

I tend to agree with MikeSM's perspective. In an ideal world all content providers would set all flags correctly. Alas, we don't live in an ideal world and I do feel it's best if the folks that create the players account for this as best they can in their software designs. This was a hot topic when mythtv first introduced automated detection of interlace mode on playback. They were looking at the bits, so many streams recorded from digital tuners were playing back incorrectly. Comcast was not the only provider making this mistake -- there was someone in Germany having the same problem. The initial position of the person that developed the automated interlace detection method for the mythtv player was "get the service providers to fix their flags". Fortunately, a different line of thinking prevailed and the latest version of mythtv's player can sort out weather or not to deinterlace without depending on the flags being set properly.

I do hope that the service providers, including Comcast, get the flags set properly over time, but having software that is more "fault tolerant" is also important.

Marc

ScotMac

04-29-09, 01:46 AM

Thanks Mike - it must be the crummy QAM tuner on my 2 year old 20" Visio that is just not picking up those channels. Up til now I had thought that that company made a good price/performance product, especially for a TV to be used in the Kitchen or Bedroom. What I don't understand is why it would pick up some digital(96 on the scan) but not the ones that have just been moved. Guess I am resigned to losing those channels for the time being.

Hey, did you figure this out? I have the exact same problem on my brand spanking new Vizio VP505XVT. Same problem, missing the digital versions of the moved 40-60 channels (like USA, TBS, MTV, ...). I will look for a new firmware version, but it appears this might be a vizio tuner problem.

I'll also try verifying that it is vizio by trying the cable QAM tuning to my dvico.

Scot

stormking

04-29-09, 02:00 AM

I do hope that the service providers, including Comcast, get the flags set properly over time, but having software that is more "fault tolerant" is also important.Marc

I think we can agree on this.

I spent a good amount of time investigating this and to up the google hits I posted here (for the Comcast aspect) and here for the 7MC issue:

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/3/341312/ShowThread.aspx

Hopefully with more info out there people will at least understand what is happening with flickering QAM channels.

ScotMac

04-29-09, 02:41 AM

Hey, did you figure this out? I have the exact same problem on my brand spanking new Vizio VP505XVT. Same problem, missing the digital versions of the moved 40-60 channels (like USA, TBS, MTV, ...). I will look for a new firmware version, but it appears this might be a vizio tuner problem.

I'll also try verifying that it is vizio by trying the cable QAM tuning on my dvico.

Scot

Hmmmm...the dvico doesn't get a single channel. TPeterson, do you know if there is a problem w/ the dvico's QAM tuning? It appears that it is supposed to support both OTA and QAM, since the HDTV input section has an "air" vs. "cable" selection. Maybe a problem w/ my firmware, since i am using (alpha?) 99.3.85?

Still looking for the vizio firmware.

ScotMac

04-29-09, 03:15 AM

Hmmmm...the dvico doesn't get a single channel. TPeterson, do you know if there is a problem w/ the dvico's QAM tuning? It appears that it is supposed to support both OTA and QAM, since the HDTV input section has an "air" vs. "cable" selection. Maybe a problem w/ my firmware, since i am using (alpha?) 99.3.85?

Still looking for the vizio firmware.

Nevermind on the dvico...the 6500 only currently supports the 410 tuner, which doesn't support QAM. Based on the menu selections, my guess (hope) is that they will support the 411 soon.

So, i have no way to verify if the problem is the vizio tuner, since both of my other tuners are OTA *only*. Anyone else having problems w/ the vizio tuners???

ScotMac

04-29-09, 03:31 AM

Oh, btw, the digital stations that the vizio is missing for my tv are from 105.4 to 119.10. ie, i can't see anything between those two stations.

ScotMac

04-29-09, 03:41 AM

OK, just found a digi tuner i had laying around (samsung dtbh260f) that does QAM, and it picks up the missing channels perfectly. So, i have verified that it is a vizio problem. Guess i'll have to deal w/ vizio tech support tomorrow.

Scot

(tho, actually, the samsung is a much better tuner than the vizio one, so maybe i'll just stick w/ it...)

marc.aronson

04-29-09, 09:31 AM

But I'll be the first to admit that it's pretty cumbersome doing it that way. However, just tuning to a frequency is really trivial if you know ioctl's. As a matter of fact, I'll do it right now.

tippity tappity tippity tappity...

Wanted to let you know that I didn't miss your response and I appreciate your providing that program! I've revamped the script so that it automatically finds a frequency w/ the VCT data. The final step is to find a way to automate the process of selecting the correct VCT table.

Marc

tex94

04-29-09, 10:12 AM

BELLCH

04-29-09, 07:49 PM

OK, just found a digi tuner i had laying around (samsung dtbh260f) that does QAM, and it picks up the missing channels perfectly. So, i have verified that it is a vizio problem. Guess i'll have to deal w/ vizio tech support tomorrow.

I spoke to Vizio about this and they claim that it is not their Qam Tuner causing the problem. However, I can pick up the digital versions of the missing programs with my CableCard and DTAs so I cannot see how it is not a problem with the Vizio Tuner.
I just had to accept that I cannot get these particular programs on that TV. If you do contact Vizio and get a solution I would appreciate it if you could let me know.
Thanks

04-29-09, 08:59 PM

The analog channels just disappeared in Marin, a few weeks later than expected.Thankfully they haven't disappeared in southern Marin yet.

I think I'm going to switch to satellite if I have to use converter boxes anyway. That's the only advantage cable had up until the next week or so.

keenan

04-29-09, 09:10 PM

Anyone else in Santa Rosa lose KBCW-712 yesterday? It seems to have coincided with the addition of 715-LiveWellHD. I haven't tried to hunt it down yet via the HDHR yet, but it's still missing today.

Tom V

04-30-09, 04:44 PM

The analog channels just disappeared in Marin, a few weeks later than expected. I noticed when I was at the gym this AM and everyone was frustrated that they couldn't tune their individual monitors to ESPN, VH1, CNN or other programs moved to digital only. This presents an interesting challenge as I don't think the DTVs with a remote control would work for the 60+ TVs needed at the club, most of them tied to specific equipment. Not sure what the solution will be other than just losing that programming though.

I wonder if Comcast will ever just leave the digital channels in their normal lineup sequence so they are easy to find. I'm guessing that most of the monitors in the club could handle ATSC (not sure about QAM) so wouldn't they be able to tune in a digital signal if Comcast left in a place that was easy to find?

Anyone seen a list from the old analog to new digital channel line up? Comcast doesn't seem to be providing info. e.g., MSNBC formerly 60 analog is now 90.5 digital. A pain going around to the different sets (I use their built-in ASTC/QAM tuners, not Comcast boxes - which still show MSNBC 60 as 60) and re-running the digital channel update, then changing Favorites, relabeling, etc.

Not very customer-friendly.

juancmjr

04-30-09, 05:57 PM

Anyone else in Santa Rosa lose KBCW-712 yesterday? It seems to have coincided with the addition of 715-LiveWellHD. I haven't tried to hunt it down yet via the HDHR yet, but it's still missing today.

Not sure about yesterday, but I still have 712.

keenan

04-30-09, 06:47 PM

Not sure about yesterday, but I still have 712.

Thanks, still missing here.

walk

04-30-09, 07:06 PM

Anyone seen a list from the old analog to new digital channel line up? Comcast doesn't seem to be providing info. e.g., MSNBC formerly 60 analog is now 90.5 digital. The problem is they are different for every neighborhood basically. So unless Comcast plans to standardize them, they won't be publishing a list.

mds54

04-30-09, 07:22 PM

NFL Network Update:
It looks like NFL Network WILL continue to be carried on Comcast past tonight's previous deadline....

Quoted from another thread:
“Comcast and the NFL are engaged in productive discussions toward a new agreement for NFL Network carriage on Comcast. NFL Network will continue to be carried on Comcast systems past tonight’s scheduled expiration of the current contract while both sides continue these productive discussions. We are both working to find a solution that works for NFL fans and Comcast’s customers.”

Tom V

04-30-09, 08:17 PM

The problem is they are different for every neighborhood basically. So unless Comcast plans to standardize them, they won't be publishing a list.

Thanks.

It's not even that the switch took place, as obviously some of these were going digital anyway, even if these are cable, not OTA, (and MSNBC is going HD this summer) - it's the lack of info that it was happening today. Nothing in any of the mailings that I've seen, plus I do have a simple Comcast box I use hooked up to a monitor. That box has a messaging service, but nothing about today's changes.

Not a huge deal. Cable companies shift around their channel positions all the time. Trouble is now, if you're using just the TV, and considering they're so sophisticated with how they store Favorites, ability to label, and so on, it takes awhile to kill off the old entries and plug in the new ones.

The pictures do look better though on both LCDs and Plasma.

Mikef5

05-01-09, 09:47 PM

For those of you that are still having a problem with what Comcast is doing with it's shift to all digital and the use of the DTA's, here's a link to an official website that is run by a employee of Comcast. It's actually a blog but you can ask questions and he does answer those questions that he can...... http://www.comcastvoices.com/

Remember, this is a Comcast site and is slanted towards the views of Comcast but from what I've read on the site it is done fairly and it doesn't slam other providers or their products and is a good source for what Comcast is doing and why it is doing it. Read the about section to learn why Comcast started this blog and it's purpose.

Laters,
Mikef5

Tom V

05-02-09, 12:11 AM

Here's another link to a Comcast FAQ about the digital channels.

http://www.comcast.com/digitalnow/FAQs.aspx?map=all_faq_map

Apparently a DTA, STB or CableCard will be required for TiVo. If you don't subscribe to premium services and your TV has a digital tuner you'll get everything, but the channels will be the oddball digital (90.5) instead of appearing as channel 60. Using the DTA also means another remote, unless your current one can be programmed to switch the DTA channels.

Brian Conrad

05-02-09, 01:46 PM

I wonder if Comcast realizes there is a recession going on? Or do they think their customers have money trees in their back yard? They're spending $1 Billion on this and what happens if customers keep cutting back on their service? Will they be in front of Congress asking for a bailout? The nationalization of Comcast... hmm. :D

dlou99

05-03-09, 12:49 AM

Wanted to let you know that I didn't miss your response and I appreciate your providing that program! I've revamped the script so that it automatically finds a frequency w/ the VCT data. The final step is to find a way to automate the process of selecting the correct VCT table.

Another forum member PM'ed me that he/she was having problems getting things going as well, so I thought it might be useful to hack up a program to make things easier (attached). Just do scte65scan /usr/share/dvb-apps/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256

and it'll sweep the RF channels and dump the first set of tables it sees. Look through the tables, find your VCT_ID and do scte65scan -m yourModulation -t yourFreq -V yourVCT_ID > file to get it again in the future in case the tables change.

dlou99

05-03-09, 12:55 AM

Anyone seen a list from the old analog to new digital channel line up? Comcast doesn't seem to be providing info. e.g., MSNBC formerly 60 analog is now 90.5 digital.

Actually, Comcast *is* providing the info. You just have to know how to get it. Get yourself a Linux box with a clearQAM capable digital tuner and run the program I just posted in the previous message.

If you need a Windows version, let me know as I don't think it'll be too hard to port the code. If you actually need that Windows version working and debugged, buy me a clearQAM card to go into my Windows box. :D The one in my Linux box sees pretty heavy use lately.

Tom V

05-03-09, 12:38 PM

;)Actually, Comcast *is* providing the info. You just have to know how to get it. Get yourself a Linux box with a clearQAM capable digital tuner and run the program I just posted in the previous message.

If you need a Windows version, let me know as I don't think it'll be too hard to port the code. If you actually need that Windows version working and debugged, buy me a clearQAM card to go into my Windows box. :D The one in my Linux box sees pretty heavy use lately.

Well, that's certainly convenient ! ;)

thatdude90210

05-03-09, 03:16 PM

Installed a couple of Comcast DTA for my mom. No issues with either one except for the remote with one TV.

She has one TV that's a Panasonic tv/vcr combo (model pv-m2038). Just couldn't get the DTA remote to work with the on/off and volume of that TV. I've tried all the Panasonic code, even the Quazar code (I remember seeing a Quazar tv that was Panny oem). None of the codes work. Spend about 10 minutes doing the "search" method. Also no go.

I did some googling and found that likely that TV uses VCR codes. Problem is, the manual only has TV codes. And Panny VCR codes that I found on the internet all starts with a number "2" (instead of "1" like all the TV 5 digit codes). With this DTV remote, pressing a 2 (or 3) to start a 5 digit code just exits the setup.

So she's stuck either with using 2 remotes, or I buy her a new universal remote and teach her to use that. The latter is a bad option, because she has enough problem with simple remotes. Or I buy her a new TV, which means I have to buy a VCR too, because she still uses tapes.

DAP

05-03-09, 03:35 PM

I finally am getting somewhere!
Under Ubuntu I ran:
./scte65scan /usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 >output.txt

I had to redirect the output to a file since the terminal buffer was too small.
The results are here:

VCT_ID 3010 (0x0bc2) at 549000000hz, version 4
VC CARRIER PROGRAM MODNUM
===========================
2 89 1 4
3 92 1 4
4 89 2 4
5 89 3 4
6 92 2 4
7 89 4 4
8 89 8 4
9 89 5 4
10 92 4 4
12 89 10 4
13 89 7 4
14 89 6 4
15 100 4 4
16 92 5 4
17 90 4 4
18 92 3 4
19 89 9 4
20 90 5 4
21 90 3 4
22 85 1 4
24 100 12 4
25 90 6 4
27 100 10 4
29 111 3 4
31 85 9 4
32 90 2 4
33 87 4 4
34 85 10 4
35 121 4 4
36 121 10 4
37 92 7 4
38 92 8 4
39 92 9 4
40 92 6 4
41 92 11 4
42 121 7 4
43 111 10 4
44 111 6 4
45 111 8 4
46 121 11 4
47 121 9 4
48 94 10 4
49 121 12 4
50 111 4 4
51 85 3 4
52 121 1 4
53 111 11 4
54 111 7 4
55 121 6 4
56 85 7 4
57 85 12 4
58 122 12 4
59 121 2 4
60 121 5 4
61 100 3 4
62 94 9 4
63 111 5 4
64 111 9 4
65 120 4 4
67 94 11 4
68 94 15 4
70 111 1 4
71 85 4 4
72 94 14 4
73 120 13 4
74 111 2 4
986 96 36 2
987 96 37 2
988 96 38 2
989 96 39 2
1101 96 61 2
76 121 3 4
81 122 10 4
82 85 8 4
89 92 10 4
99 66 4 4
103 120 14 4
104 100 8 4
108 107 13 4
109 85 2 4
110 87 8 4
111 100 1 4
116 123 40 4
119 107 1 4
128 113 5 4
136 113 13 4
164 98 3 4
165 111 2 4
168 98 13 4
169 123 40 4
185 120 3 4
186 79 2 4
189 80 3 4
190 90 8 4
191 90 9 4
192 90 10 4
195 80 8 4
196 96 6 2
197 119 3 4
199 96 1 2
229 123 13 4
230 113 8 4
275 122 2 4
276 122 3 4
400 92 10 4
410 123 40 4
504 122 4 4
620 96 6 2
621 90 9 4
622 78 3 4
715 80 7 4
960 96 10 2
961 96 11 2
962 96 12 2
963 96 13 2
964 96 14 2
965 96 15 2
966 96 16 2
967 96 17 2
968 96 18 2
969 96 19 2
970 96 20 2
971 96 21 2
972 96 22 2
973 96 23 2
974 96 24 2
975 96 25 2
976 96 26 2
977 96 27 2
978 96 28 2
979 96 29 2
980 96 30 2
981 96 31 2
982 96 32 2
983 96 33 2
984 96 34 2
985 96 35 2
VCT_ID 3001 (0x0bb9) at 549000000hz, version 4
VC CARRIER PROGRAM MODNUM
===========================
2 89 1 4
3 92 1 4
4 89 2 4
5 89 3 4
6 92 2 4
7 89 4 4
8 89 8 4
9 89 5 4
10 92 4 4
11 100 1 4
12 89 10 4
13 89 7 4
14 89 6 4
15 100 5 4
16 92 5 4
17 90 4 4
18 92 3 4
19 89 9 4
20 90 5 4
21 90 3 4
22 85 1 4
24 100 12 4
25 90 6 4
26 100 6 4
27 100 10 4
28 100 11 4
29 111 3 4
31 85 9 4
32 90 2 4
33 87 4 4
34 85 10 4
35 121 4 4
36 121 10 4
37 92 7 4
38 92 8 4
39 92 9 4
40 92 6 4
41 92 11 4
42 121 7 4
43 111 10 4
44 111 6 4
45 111 8 4
46 121 11 4
47 121 9 4
48 94 10 4
49 121 12 4
50 111 4 4
51 85 3 4
52 121 1 4
53 111 11 4
54 111 7 4
55 121 6 4
56 85 7 4
57 85 12 4
58 122 12 4
59 121 2 4
60 121 5 4
61 100 3 4
62 94 9 4
63 111 5 4
64 111 9 4
65 120 4 4
66 120 3 4
67 94 11 4
68 94 15 4
70 111 1 4
71 85 4 4
72 94 14 4
73 120 13 4
74 100 9 4
75 121 3 4
76 98 3 4
77 98 13 4
81 122 10 4
82 85 8 4
89 92 10 4
99 66 4 4
103 120 14 4
104 100 8 4
108 107 13 4
109 85 2 4
110 87 8 4
111 100 1 4
116 123 40 4
119 107 1 4
128 113 5 4
136 113 13 4
164 98 3 4
165 111 2 4
168 98 13 4
169 123 40 4
185 120 3 4
186 79 2 4
189 80 3 4
190 90 8 4
191 90 9 4
192 90 10 4
195 80 8 4
196 96 6 2
197 119 3 4
199 96 1 2
229 123 13 4
230 113 8 4
275 122 2 4
276 122 3 4
400 92 10 4
410 123 40 4
475 121 3 4
504 122 4 4
620 96 6 2
621 90 9 4
622 78 3 4
715 80 7 4
960 96 10 2
961 96 11 2
962 96 12 2
963 96 13 2
964 96 14 2
965 96 15 2
966 96 16 2
967 96 17 2
968 96 18 2
969 96 19 2
970 96 20 2
971 96 21 2
972 96 22 2
973 96 23 2
974 96 24 2
975 96 25 2
976 96 26 2
977 96 27 2
978 96 28 2
979 96 29 2
980 96 30 2
981 96 31 2
982 96 32 2
983 96 33 2
984 96 34 2
985 96 35 2
986 96 36 2
987 96 37 2
988 96 38 2
989 96 39 2
1101 96 61 2
VCT_ID 3066 (0x0bfa) at 549000000hz, version 4
VC CARRIER PROGRAM MODNUM
===========================
2 89 1 4
3 92 1 4
4 89 2 4
5 89 3 4
6 92 2 4
7 89 4 4
8 89 8 4
9 89 5 4
10 92 4 4
11 100 1 4
12 89 10 4
13 89 7 4
14 89 6 4
15 100 5 4
16 92 5 4
17 90 4 4
18 92 3 4
19 89 9 4
20 90 5 4
21 90 3 4
22 85 1 4
24 100 12 4
25 90 6 4
26 100 7 4
27 100 10 4
28 100 11 4
29 111 3 4
31 85 9 4
32 90 2 4
33 87 4 4
34 85 10 4
35 121 4 4
36 121 10 4
37 92 7 4
38 92 8 4
39 92 9 4
40 92 6 4
41 92 11 4
42 121 7 4
43 111 10 4
44 111 6 4
45 111 8 4
46 121 11 4
47 121 9 4
48 94 10 4
49 121 12 4
50 111 4 4
51 85 3 4
52 121 1 4
53 111 11 4
54 111 7 4
55 121 6 4
56 85 7 4
57 85 12 4
58 122 12 4
59 121 2 4
60 121 5 4
61 100 3 4
62 94 9 4
63 111 5 4
64 111 9 4
65 120 4 4
66 120 3 4
67 94 11 4
68 94 15 4
70 111 1 4
71 85 4 4
72 94 14 4
73 120 13 4
74 100 9 4
75 121 3 4
76 98 3 4
77 98 13 4
81 122 10 4
82 85 8 4
89 92 10 4
99 66 4 4
103 120 14 4
104 100 8 4
108 107 13 4
109 85 2 4
110 87 8 4
111 100 1 4
116 123 40 4
119 107 1 4
128 113 5 4
136 113 13 4
164 98 3 4
165 111 2 4
168 98 13 4
169 123 40 4
185 120 3 4
186 79 2 4
189 80 3 4
190 90 8 4
191 90 9 4
192 90 10 4
195 80 8 4
196 96 6 2
197 119 3 4
199 96 1 2
229 123 13 4
230 113 8 4
275 122 2 4
276 122 3 4
400 92 10 4
410 123 40 4
475 121 3 4
504 122 4 4
620 96 6 2
621 90 9 4
622 78 3 4
715 80 7 4
960 96 10 2
961 96 11 2
962 96 12 2
963 96 13 2
964 96 14 2
965 96 15 2
966 96 16 2
967 96 17 2
968 96 18 2
969 96 19 2
970 96 20 2
971 96 21 2
972 96 22 2
973 96 23 2
974 96 24 2
975 96 25 2
976 96 26 2
977 96 27 2
978 96 28 2
979 96 29 2
980 96 30 2
981 96 31 2
982 96 32 2
983 96 33 2
984 96 34 2
985 96 35 2
986 96 36 2
987 96 37 2
988 96 38 2
989 96 39 2
1101 96 61 2
VCT_ID 3065 (0x0bf9) at 549000000hz, version 4
VC CARRIER PROGRAM MODNUM
===========================
2 89 1 4
3 92 1 4
4 89 2 4
5 89 3 4
6 92 2 4
7 89 4 4
8 89 8 4
9 89 5 4
10 92 4 4
11 100 1 4
12 89 10 4
13 89 7 4
14 89 6 4
15 100 5 4
16 92 5 4
17 90 4 4
18 92 3 4
19 89 9 4
20 90 5 4
21 90 3 4
22 85 1 4
24 100 12 4
25 90 6 4
26 100 6 4
27 100 10 4
28 100 11 4
29 111 3 4
31 85 9 4
32 90 2 4
33 87 4 4
34 85 10 4
35 121 4 4
36 121 10 4
37 92 7 4
38 92 8 4
39 92 9 4
40 92 6 4
41 92 11 4
42 121 7 4
43 111 10 4
44 111 6 4
45 111 8 4
46 121 11 4
47 121 9 4
48 94 10 4
49 121 12 4
50 111 4 4
51 85 3 4
52 121 1 4
53 111 11 4
54 111 7 4
55 121 6 4
56 85 7 4
57 85 12 4
58 122 12 4
59 121 2 4
60 121 5 4
61 100 3 4
62 94 9 4
63 111 5 4
64 111 9 4
65 120 4 4
66 120 3 4
67 94 11 4
68 94 15 4
70 111 1 4
71 85 4 4
72 94 14 4
73 120 13 4
74 100 9 4
75 121 3 4
76 98 3 4
77 98 13 4
81 122 10 4
82 85 8 4
89 92 10 4
99 66 4 4
103 120 14 4
104 100 8 4
108 107 13 4
109 85 2 4
110 87 8 4
111 100 1 4
116 123 40 4
119 107 1 4
128 113 5 4
136 113 13 4
164 98 3 4
165 111 2 4
168 98 13 4
169 123 40 4
185 120 3 4
186 79 2 4
189 80 3 4
190 90 8 4
191 90 9 4
192 90 10 4
195 80 8 4
196 96 6 2
197 119 3 4
199 96 1 2
229 123 13 4
230 113 8 4
275 122 2 4
276 122 3 4
400 92 10 4
410 123 40 4
475 121 3 4
504 122 4 4
620 96 6 2
621 90 9 4
622 78 3 4
715 80 7 4
960 96 10 2
961 96 11 2
962 96 12 2
963 96 13 2
964 96 14 2
965 96 15 2
966 96 16 2
967 96 17 2
968 96 18 2
969 96 19 2
970 96 20 2
971 96 21 2
972 96 22 2
973 96 23 2
974 96 24 2
975 96 25 2
976 96 26 2
977 96 27 2
978 96 28 2
979 96 29 2
980 96 30 2
981 96 31 2
982 96 32 2
983 96 33 2
984 96 34 2
985 96 35 2
986 96 36 2
987 96 37 2
988 96 38 2
989 96 39 2
1101 96 61 2
VCT_ID 0 (0x0000) at 549000000hz, version 4
VC CARRIER PROGRAM MODNUM
===========================
2 89 1 4
3 92 1 4
4 89 2 4
5 89 3 4
6 92 2 4
7 89 4 4
8 89 8 4
9 89 5 4
10 92 4 4
11 100 1 4
12 89 10 4
13 89 7 4
14 89 6 4
15 100 5 4
16 92 5 4
17 90 4 4
18 92 3 4
19 89 9 4
20 90 5 4
21 90 3 4
22 85 1 4
24 100 12 4
25 90 6 4
26 100 6 4
27 100 10 4
28 100 11 4
29 111 3 4
31 85 9 4
32 90 2 4
33 87 4 4
34 85 10 4
35 121 4 4
36 121 10 4
37 92 7 4
38 92 8 4
39 92 9 4
40 92 6 4
41 92 11 4
42 121 7 4
43 111 10 4
44 111 6 4
45 111 8 4
46 121 11 4
47 121 9 4
48 94 10 4
49 121 12 4
50 111 4 4
51 85 3 4
52 121 1 4
53 111 11 4
54 111 7 4
55 121 6 4
56 85 7 4
57 85 12 4
58 122 12 4
59 121 2 4
60 121 5 4
61 100 3 4
62 94 9 4
63 111 5 4
64 111 9 4
65 120 4 4
66 120 3 4
67 94 11 4
68 94 15 4
70 111 1 4
71 85 4 4
72 94 14 4
73 120 13 4
74 100 9 4
75 121 3 4
76 98 3 4
77 98 13 4
81 122 10 4
82 85 8 4
89 92 10 4
99 66 4 4
103 120 14 4
104 100 8 4
108 107 13 4
109 85 2 4
110 87 8 4
111 100 1 4
116 123 40 4
119 107 1 4
128 113 5 4
136 113 13 4
164 98 3 4
165 111 2 4
168 98 13 4
169 123 40 4
185 120 3 4
186 79 2 4
189 80 3 4
190 90 8 4
191 90 9 4
192 90 10 4
195 80 8 4
196 96 6 2
197 119 3 4
199 96 1 2
229 123 13 4
230 113 8 4
275 122 2 4
276 122 3 4
400 92 10 4
410 123 40 4
475 121 3 4
504 122 4 4
620 96 6 2
621 90 9 4
622 78 3 4
715 80 7 4
960 96 10 2
961 96 11 2
962 96 12 2
963 96 13 2
964 96 14 2
965 96 15 2
966 96 16 2
967 96 17 2
968 96 18 2
969 96 19 2
970 96 20 2
971 96 21 2
972 96 22 2
973 96 23 2
974 96 24 2
975 96 25 2
976 96 26 2
977 96 27 2
978 96 28 2
979 96 29 2
980 96 30 2
981 96 31 2
982 96 32 2
983 96 33 2
984 96 34 2
985 96 35 2
986 96 36 2
987 96 37 2
988 96 38 2
989 96 39 2
1101 96 61 2

CARRIER FREQUENCY
===================
1 75250000
2 57000000
3 63000000
4 69000000
5 79000000
6 85000000
7 177000000
8 183000000
9 189000000
10 195000000
11 201000000
12 207000000
13 213000000
14 123000000
15 129000000
16 135000000
17 141000000
18 147000000
19 153000000
20 159000000
21 165000000
22 171000000
23 219000000
24 225000000
25 231000000
26 237000000
27 243000000
28 249000000
29 255000000
30 261000000
31 267000000
32 273000000
33 279000000
34 285000000
35 291000000
36 297000000
37 303000000
38 309000000
39 315000000
40 321000000
41 327000000
42 333000000
43 339000000
44 345000000
45 351000000
46 357000000
47 363000000
48 369000000
49 375000000
50 381000000
51 387000000
52 393000000
53 399000000
54 405000000
55 411000000
56 417000000
57 423000000
58 429000000
59 435000000
60 441000000
61 447000000
62 453000000
63 459000000
64 465000000
65 471000000
66 477000000
67 483000000
68 489000000
69 495000000
70 501000000
71 507000000
72 513000000
73 519000000
74 525000000
75 531000000
76 537000000
77 543000000
78 549000000
79 555000000
80 561000000
81 567000000
82 573000000
83 579000000
84 585000000
85 591000000
86 597000000
87 603000000
88 609000000
89 615000000
90 621000000
91 627000000
92 633000000
93 639000000
94 645000000
95 93000000
96 99000000
97 105000000
98 111000000
99 117000000
100 651000000
101 657000000
102 663000000
103 669000000
104 675000000
105 681000000
106 687000000
107 693000000
108 699000000
109 705000000
110 711000000
111 717000000
112 723000000
113 729000000
114 735000000
115 741000000
116 747000000
117 753000000
118 759000000
119 765000000
120 771000000
121 777000000
122 783000000
123 789000000
124 795000000
125 801000000
126 807000000
127 813000000
128 819000000
129 825000000
130 831000000
131 837000000
132 843000000
133 849000000
134 855000000
135 861000000
136 867000000
137 873000000
138 879000000
139 885000000
140 891000000
141 897000000
142 903000000
143 909000000
144 915000000
145 921000000
146 927000000
147 933000000
148 939000000
149 945000000
150 951000000
151 957000000
152 963000000
153 969000000
154 975000000
155 981000000
156 987000000
157 993000000
158 999000000

MODNUM MODE
=========================
1 QPSK
2 64_QAM
3 UNKNOWN
4 256_QAM

As you can see, I get 5 VCT_IDs. Which one is mine?
I checked a few channels that I knew the frequency ID & subchannel for, but though the frequency ID matched, the subchannel did not.
For example I know that on my system HDHomeRun shows 111.0 for the discovery channel. By looking at the TV listings, I found that Comcast calls this channel 29. But the listing above shows 29 to be 111.3.
I'm thoroughly confused.

Tom V

05-03-09, 03:52 PM

I finally am getting somewhere!
Under Ubuntu I ran:
./scte65scan /usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-Cable-Standard-center-frequencies-QAM256 >output.txt

I had to redirect the output to a file since the terminal buffer was too small.
The results are here:

[snip]

As you can see, I get 5 VCT_IDs. Which one is mine?
I checked a few channels that I knew the frequency ID & subchannel for, but though the frequency ID matched, the subchannel did not.
For example I know that on my system HDHomeRun shows 111.0 for the discovery channel. By looking at the TV listings, I found that Comcast calls this channel 29. But the listing above shows 29 to be 111.3.
I'm thoroughly confused.

Seems perfectly clear to me. :eek:

walk

05-03-09, 05:01 PM

Sure it's simple, you just go to college and study computer science for 8 years and then you're all set to ... watch some TV. ;)

dlou99

05-03-09, 05:29 PM

I finally am getting somewhere!
...
As you can see, I get 5 VCT_IDs. Which one is mine?
I checked a few channels that I knew the frequency ID & subchannel for, but though the frequency ID matched, the subchannel did not.
For example I know that on my system HDHomeRun shows 111.0 for the discovery channel. By looking at the TV listings, I found that Comcast calls this channel 29. But the listing above shows 29 to be 111.3.

First off, program 0 is not a valid program number, so it looks like the HDHR boys are doing something fishy.

Secondly, 4 out of the 5 tables are identical in terms of VC to Carrier.Program mapping (e.g. 29->111.3). Only the first one is different, and that one only differs in that some VC's are missing.

Thirdly, out of the 4 identical ones, it could be that they only differ in terms of callsign/name. Try adding '-n 3' to scte65scan and re-run.

Brian Conrad

05-03-09, 06:35 PM

Sure it's simple, you just go to college and study computer science for 8 years and then you're all set to ... watch some TV. ;)

Try from the terminal:
gcc scte65scan.c -o scte65scan

DAP

05-03-09, 06:37 PM

First off, program 0 is not a valid program number, so it looks like the HDHR boys are doing something fishy.

Secondly, 4 out of the 5 tables are identical in terms of VC to Carrier.Program mapping (e.g. 29->111.3). Only the first one is different, and that one only differs in that some VC's are missing.

Thirdly, out of the 4 identical ones, it could be that they only differ in terms of callsign/name. Try adding '-n 3' to scte65scan and re-run.

I just spent some time scanning the rest of the channels. There are 13 channels that have PID 0x1FFC data. With the exception of the channel frequency, they all have exactly the same results from scte65scan.

I split out the 5 VCT_ID lists into separate files and did a diff on them
3001, and 3065 are identical to 0, but 3010, and 3066 are different (see channel 26 in 3066)

The scan with the callsign name is running right now.

The scan has completed, and I get pretty much the same results, the three that were the same before are still the same. The extra channels in 3010 are mostly radio stations.

DAP

05-03-09, 07:04 PM

I notice that there is an output format of "MythTV SQL commands".
I assume this is for automatically updating the channel numbers & names in MythTV.
How does one use this output? this is exactly what I want to do. Doing this by hand is painful, I've done it at least twice now.

bradfuller

05-03-09, 07:09 PM

It appears your application looks at dvb cards. True? Can it be modified to use on the HDHR?

TPeterson

05-03-09, 09:07 PM

You don't need to use it on the HDHR, because Silicondust is already working on using the SCTE-65 data to ID the channels for you.

fender4645

05-03-09, 11:17 PM

Does anyone know what Comcast charges these days to run a new line to a room?

curtis82

05-04-09, 01:01 AM

does anyone know what comcast charges these days to run a new line to a room?

$20.99

fender4645

05-04-09, 01:06 AM

Excellent. Thanks.

dlou99

05-04-09, 01:06 AM

It appears your application looks at dvb cards. True? Can it be modified to use on the HDHR?

You probably already saw the answer on the MythTV list. But for those curious, here's what I wrote:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009-May/254960.html

I notice that there is an output format of "MythTV SQL commands".
I assume this is for automatically updating the channel numbers & names in MythTV.
How does one use this output? this is exactly what I want to do. Doing this by hand is painful, I've done it at least twice now.

I haven't quite fleshed this out yet. I'd have to put more thought into how to make something useful for updates as well as bone up on my SQL. Currently, it's probably only useful on a fresh installation. You'd likely want to install Myth, setup the tables, run mysql on the output of scte65scan, then do a PSIP scan.

For now, if you could re-layout your dtv_multiplex table so that mplexid matches the CDS_reference (that's what the first half of the output does), you could use sed or hand-edit the output to delete all the "INSERT INTO dtv_multiplex" lines, replace "INSERT INTO channel" with "UPDATE channel", replace "SET freqid=" with "WHERE freqid=" and delete everything after the number following "freqid=" except for the semicolon. That's assuming you currently have freqid set to a number matching the virtual channel number.

For new channels, you'd leave the "INSERT INTO channel" lines just as they are. For channels that have been removed, you'd replace "INSERT INTO channel" with "DELETE FROM channel", change "SET freqid=" to "WHERE freqid=", then delete all the other "SET..." sections from the line.

tangoalpha

05-04-09, 05:20 PM

nikeykid

05-04-09, 05:36 PM

Does anyone know the current channel assignment for KGO in HD? Not the new KGO HD channel, but the typical ABC affiliate channel. I used to be able to pick it up on the HDHR scan but I can only find the SD channel now. It used to be in the somewhere around 24-3 on the channel scan but I cannot pull that channel up. Anyone else missing KGO in HD?

on a completely unrelated but related note... the new ABC digital HD sub as we all know sucked the bandwidth out of the main ABC HD feed so the NBA playoff games this weekend looked like utter crap. in many ways it was worse than fox SD widescreen when they were still using that. ARGH.

gfbuchanan

05-04-09, 05:44 PM

Down here in Cupertino, KGO HD shares channel 117 with KQED.

Greg

Does anyone know the current channel assignment for KGO in HD? Not the new KGO HD channel, but the typical ABC affiliate channel. I used to be able to pick it up on the HDHR scan but I can only find the SD channel now. It used to be in the somewhere around 24-3 on the channel scan but I cannot pull that channel up. Anyone else missing KGO in HD?

tangoalpha

05-04-09, 06:00 PM

on a completely unrelated but related note... the new ABC digital HD sub as we all know sucked the bandwidth out of the main ABC HD feed so the NBA playoff games this weekend looked like utter crap. in many ways it was worse than fox SD widescreen when they were still using that. ARGH.

Makes me wonder if my channel scan didn't pick up KGO-HD on 117 because of poor signal quality/strength/symbol (however it chooses ;)) I thought I tried all of the 117 channels in the HDHR configuration/setup with no luck. I'll give it another try tonight.

mds54

05-04-09, 08:02 PM

^^^^^
Has anyone blasted KGO about this yet?
(I just sent them an email)

Tom Koegel

05-04-09, 09:51 PM

Anyone watching the Monday night Cubs-Giants game? I'm on D* now, and they are only carrying the low-def broadcast. Would be curious to know if Comcast has a high-def feed. The Chicago OTA affiliate, which is apparently now something called WCIU and is no longer WGN. The D* Extra Innings package isn't picking up the WCIU feed--maybe they are only allowed to rebroadcast RSNs? In any event, the low def feed they are picking up from Comcast is perhaps the lowest def transmission I have seen in recent years.

Of course, thanks to MLB I can't watch on the HD broadcast on the web (blacked out locally here in our part of California). And even if D* got the WCIU feed, they probably couldn't show it.

jasonander

05-04-09, 09:59 PM

RE: KGO, I noticed the sharp decline in picture quality last night. A 1 hour HD recording only took up 2.5 GB on my Tivo S3. Normally a 1 hour show in primetime from other broadcast networks takes 5-7 GB, so this shows the level of compression. There was frequent macroblocking and the picture looked fuzzy. I just sent in my thoughts to the station from their webform here: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/feature?section=resources&id=5792275

tangoalpha

05-04-09, 09:59 PM

Makes me wonder if my channel scan didn't pick up KGO-HD on 117 because of poor signal quality/strength/symbol (however it chooses ;)) I thought I tried all of the 117 channels in the HDHR configuration/setup with no luck. I'll give it another try tonight.

Turns out KGOHD and KQEDHD are on 94. I can pick it up on one HDHR but not the other...go figure, maybe time to adjust the amp.

Mikef5

05-04-09, 09:59 PM

Tom Koegel

05-04-09, 10:27 PM

I'm watching the game on channel 720 CSNBA-HD and it looks like an upconverted signal, not very sharp at all but at least it's in the proper aspect ratio and not the TNT squashed video. It's watchable but a really soft picture.

Laters,
Mikef5

Thanks, Mike. It's very hard to predict what D* will pick up from CSN and where they will place it. Would be interesting to know why they aren't picking up . . . . well interesting to us D* subscribers anyway.

cholt

05-04-09, 10:43 PM

Yup, it definitely looks upconverted. Just take a look at 721/CSNCD - the A's game IS in HD.

walk

05-05-09, 12:30 AM

Mikef5

05-05-09, 02:22 AM

No HD for Giants today/night 5/4 (http://west.comcastsportsnet.com/pages/schedule_giants_hd). SD feed on D* 696 was ultra-low def (think converted from analog OTA) but there you go. At least they aren't wasting a "real" HD channel for it.

In fact no HD at all this week, at least on CSN, dunno about NBC 11. Sun 5/10 is next HD game on CSN.

A's looks great right now in HD on 697-1 CSN-CA.

Walk,

Comcast didn't waste anything, they only showed what was on channel 40 ( the Giant's game ) and upconverted it to be shown on channel 720 and kept it in a proper aspect ratio. They didn't have to do that, they could've made you watch the game on an analog channel and showed some other worthless program in it's place on CSNBA-HD. It wasn't the greatest of picture quality but it was better than watching it on an analog channel. I for one will not watch an analog channel even if the Giant's are being shown on it and I'm a die hard Giant's fan. They can't show every game in HD especially when it's an away game. I wish they would show all the games in HD and not just the baseball games but the other sports as well but it's just to expensive to do that. I think they did the best that they could with what was provided to them.

Laters,
Mikef5

RBurks

05-05-09, 10:17 AM

Anyone with a Comcast box in the Redwood Shores, San Carlos, Belmont area getting the HD Speed Channel now?

John

I am still not getting it in San Carlos. I must live in Comcast slum.

walk

05-05-09, 01:00 PM

Mikef5

05-05-09, 01:25 PM

My point was, satellite works differently. When the game is not in HD they don't waste the bandwidth by showing upconverted SD on a HD channel - they use that bandwidth for something else. In fact the HD RSN channels are blank unless there's a game on (in HD) and they cut it off pretty quick too, right after the last out practically, you don't get any of the post-game on the HD channel.

Cable doesn't have anything to lose I guess, since the HD channel is always "on". It's good I guess, if you get a slightly better picture out of it... The SD picture on D* is definitely near the bottom of the barrel. Almost as bad as analog cable. :)
My bad, I thought you were insinuating that they were wasting bandwidth, which IMHO is not the case. I'd rather watch an upconverted program than watch an analog channel any day, but that's just me.

The one good thing about the channels being 24/7 now is that we don't have the problem with them not turning on the channel when there is a game scheduled. I'm sure you remember what a pain that was, having to call the CSR's (UGH !!) to explain the problem and not getting anywhere with them and missing the game. That's why I have the email address and phone number to my head-end supervisor. I haven't had to use that in a long time ( knock on wood ) :p

You are right though, the Sat's and cable have different distribution strategy's. Which is best ? I don't care, I just want the game shown and shown in the best possible format available to them.

Laters,
Mikef5

MANNAXMAN

05-05-09, 03:10 PM

OT - I'm in Sunnyvale and have been experiencing intermittent internet drop outs. My significant other, who is currently among the many unemployed, said it was out for a couple of hours the other morning. She was NOT very happy, as she told a recruiter she would e-mail her resume right away. I've also experienced this while playing Madden 09 online. Anyone else experiencing this?

walk

05-05-09, 05:43 PM

I was, in Jan-Feb, but it seems to be better now, though I'm not using the internet as much as I was back then, so it's hard to say.

I think it may be related to their ongoing upgrades... or downgrades, whatever you call it. Even though they wouldn't admit it and swore up and down that I was the only person complaining...

Tom Koegel

05-06-09, 12:15 AM

I for one will not watch an analog channel even if the Giant's are being shown on it and I'm a die hard Giant's fan.

I agree with you in spirit, but am such a die hard that I will watch low def.

They can't show every game in HD especially when it's an away game. I wish they would show all the games in HD and not just the baseball games but the other sports as well but it's just to expensive to do that. I think they did the best that they could with what was provided to them.

Now here we disagree. While some tiny markets are still struggling to get high def broadcasts of their local teams, most of the time when the Giants are away you can find a local broadcast that is in high def. That was the case for both Chicago games, and that will be the case for both Rockies games too. One has to be believe that if they really cared about consistently broadcasting in high def, they could negotiate rights to use the home RSNs feed for the broadcast. You get lots of hooey about how they need to have their own feed . . . no doubt so Krook and Kuip can do their goofy stuff about oddball characters in the crowd.

Of course, the thing that really drives me crazy is the rule negotiated between MLB and all the carriers that prohibits the broadcast of the away team's broadcast into the "local" market. You have to believe if they didn't have this constraint of trade in place, the local carriers would make darn sure not to lose any eyeballs when the away feed has HD and they don't. But MLB prohibit you from watching that HD away feed even if you have D* Extra Innings or MLB TV.

Ahhh, I suppose this is all pretty silly. I can remember looking forward to Sundays because that was the one day that the Dodgers broadcast on TV . . . that is, if they were on the road. Home games were never broadcast.

And yep, I grew up a Dodgers fan. I'm an orange-and-black convert. :D

abg

05-06-09, 02:23 AM

Re: DTA Conversion

They started converting our area (94022) today :(

Not all the channels above 34 were moved as of 8pm but I expect they'll all be gone soon.

walk

05-06-09, 12:26 PM

MKANET

05-06-09, 12:41 PM

It's not quite as easy as just saying.. "I'll just switch to satellite".

Getting a satellite dish mounted on your house, wiring, and installing/setting up boxes inthe house; and, paying for all of that. IMO, its much easier to just go pick up a couple of boxes.

My dad was complaining he lost the upper channels on his bedroom and den tv so I guess they did the conversion in Marin/Fairfax already.

No warning, no nothing. He had to ask me WTF and I don't even know what to tell him - can you call Comcast and get the free DTAs delivered to your house? Or do you have to drive down to the office and pick them up? How many can you get for free? They need 2.

Of course his other option is to switch to satellite which right now is more likely than anything.

Mikef5

05-06-09, 12:45 PM

walk

05-06-09, 01:35 PM

Actually you call DirecTV they come out and install everything for free. There's no wiring or anything needed. The dish is free and you can get up to 6 receivers free (1 HD or DVR receiver).

MKANET

05-06-09, 01:50 PM

It's still easier to pick up a couple of boxes; most likely free too. ...or close to free.

Actually you call DirecTV they come out and install everything for free. There's no wiring or anything needed. The dish is free and you can get up to 6 receivers free (1 HD or DVR receiver).

abg

05-06-09, 01:59 PM

My dad was complaining he lost the upper channels on his bedroom and den tv so I guess they did the conversion in Marin/Fairfax already.

No warning, no nothing. He had to ask me WTF and I don't even know what to tell him - can you call Comcast and get the free DTAs delivered to your house? Or do you have to drive down to the office and pick them up? How many can you get for free? They need 2.

Of course his other option is to switch to satellite which right now is more likely than anything.

You can definitely get 2 for free; not sure if you can pick them up at the office (ours came by UPS). Installation is trivial. It's the end situation I despise.

In Comcast's defense, they did send out a letter with "README!!" stamped all over it that outlined what they were doing and what steps we lab rats/customers needed to do. The ordering and installation of the DTAs was trivial; activation was slow due to just slightly-more-awake-than-peat-moss telephone personnel. The end product on the screen is still the same, only now I can't erase channels :(

On the flip side, this entire conversion process was as poorly and confusingly marketed as anything I've seen recently. Many months of "avoid the digital TV transition; get Comcast!" followed by "now bend over for the Comcast digital TV transition" that will add another pile of remotes to your household inventory. To quote Kelly Bundy, "the mind wobbles".

BTW, has anyone found a universal remote yet that's compatible with the unit sent with the DTA?

walk

05-06-09, 02:19 PM

Whatever letter or flyer or whatever they did or didn't send, it didn't reach the target, that's all I know.

bwelling

05-06-09, 02:52 PM

Re: DTA Conversion

They started converting our area (94022) today :(

Not all the channels above 34 were moved as of 8pm but I expect they'll all be gone soon.

When was the target date for your area? All of the flyers we received (94555) said 5/1, but nothing appears to have happened yet.

MikeSM

05-06-09, 02:53 PM

You can definitely get 2 for free; not sure if you can pick them up at the office (ours came by UPS). Installation is trivial. It's the end situation I despise.

In Comcast's defense, they did send out a letter with "README!!" stamped all over it that outlined what they were doing and what steps we lab rats/customers needed to do. The ordering and installation of the DTAs was trivial; activation was slow due to just slightly-more-awake-than-peat-moss telephone personnel. The end product on the screen is still the same, only now I can't erase channels :(

On the flip side, this entire conversion process was as poorly and confusingly marketed as anything I've seen recently. Many months of "avoid the digital TV transition; get Comcast!" followed by "now bend over for the Comcast digital TV transition" that will add another pile of remotes to your household inventory. To quote Kelly Bundy, "the mind wobbles".

BTW, has anyone found a universal remote yet that's compatible with the unit sent with the DTA?

There is actually not a connection between the OTA analog cutoff and Comcast reclaiming the analog spectrum on the plant. It's just that they overlap here in the SF market. Had the DTV transition happened in Feb, that would all be behind us by now.

wrinklefree

05-06-09, 03:10 PM

Does anyone know when the Berkeley area is going to upgraded?

Still waiting for SPEED HD. :(

abg

05-06-09, 03:55 PM

When was the target date for your area? All of the flyers we received (94555) said 5/1, but nothing appears to have happened yet.

I don't remember for sure, but I actually think we received the notice in mid-Feb. or early March with an anticipated switchover date in early April. It began at least a month after I expected it.

On a related topic:

"There is actually not a connection between the OTA analog cutoff and Comcast reclaiming the analog spectrum on the plant. It's just that they overlap here in the SF market."

Absolutely correct; that was kind of the point that I was trying to make. The way they advertised, concerning the two unrelated events, made it easy (IMHO) for many of their customers to not understand what was going on.

pappy97

05-06-09, 04:30 PM

It's still easier to pick up a couple of boxes; most likely free too. ...or close to free.

And don't forget, the biggest obstacle for DirecTV/Dish is that you need to have a clear line of sight to the southern sky. Without that, you are forced go to cable if you want more than OTA.

For most in single family residences, the clear line of sight isn't an issue (but perhaps homes in the hills/mountains?). The big issue comes for apartments/condos/etc. I wonder how many buyers/renters think about getting a clear line of sight when getting an apt. I sure didn't, but I happened to luck out with my apt so if I need to go DirecTV/Dish, I can.

walk

05-06-09, 05:26 PM

Not really, mine points practically straight up. As long as you can see the sky from the roof of your building, you should be ok.

That Don Guy

05-07-09, 02:51 PM

Not really, mine points practically straight up. As long as you can see the sky from the roof of your building, you should be ok.How "straight up" is it? I am fairly certain there can be nothing between the satellite and the dish, and from the San Francisco area, the satellites are at most about 45-50 degrees above the horizon (depending on which satellite(s) you are trying to receive, it's not necessarily "south", but it is in the southern half of the sky, since the satellites are all over the equator). I assume that, because of the dish's curvature, it doesn't have to "point directly at it", but still, you have to be able to see the spot in the sky where the satellite is located.

The point is, anyone who lives on, or at the base of, the northern slope of a steep-enough hill may have a problem.

-- Don

keenan

05-07-09, 02:58 PM

How "straight up" is it? I am fairly certain there can be nothing between the satellite and the dish, and from the San Francisco area, the satellites are at most about 45-50 degrees above the horizon (depending on which satellite(s) you are trying to receive, it's not necessarily "south", but it is in the southern half of the sky, since the satellites are all over the equator). I assume that, because of the dish's curvature, it doesn't have to "point directly at it", but still, you have to be able to see the spot in the sky where the satellite is located.

The point is, anyone who lives on, or at the base of, the northern slope of a steep-enough hill may have a problem.

-- Don
It's a little steeper than that, low 40's.

An easy to use look angle checker.
http://www.emantechnology.com/store/pc/lookangle.asp

walk

05-07-09, 04:07 PM

It's not straight up, but it's a lot higher than I thought it would be. 45-50 deg. sounds about right.

I thought he was going to have to put it at the peak of the roof and in the front of the house- nope he put it on the back corner, behind a tree, you can't even see it from the street/curb. My neighbor has one attached to the side of the house right outiside his back door (on the first floor level) and about 35 feet away is another 2-story house, no problems with it blocking the path there.

Barovelli

05-07-09, 07:43 PM

So, how's HD Youtube on the iPhone? :rolleyes:

JK.

Anyone heard of a Pace RNG110? It's been spotted.

MikeSM

05-07-09, 10:27 PM

So, how's HD Youtube on the iPhone? :rolleyes:

JK.

Anyone heard of a Pace RNG110? It's been spotted.

Nice to be back on point.

I've heard of an RNG200, but not an RNG110... What's the difference?

abg

05-07-09, 10:56 PM

Just to clarify the amount of delay in the conversion, our letter from Comcast was dated 27-Feb-09 and said that the conversion could begin as soon as 6-Apr-09.

wintertime

05-07-09, 11:56 PM

Here's what Comcast had posted on their California media site as of a few days ago:

April (Customers were Notified 30 Days Prior to Date to The Right)

CUPERTINO, LOS ALTOS, 4/7/2009

LIVERMORE 4/8/2009

SAN RAFAEL, SAN ANSELMO, KENTFIELD, CORTE MADERA, FAIRFAX, LARKSPUR, ROSS, WOODACRE, FOREST KNOLLS, GREENBRAE ,LAGUNITAS ,SAN GERONIMO, SAN QUENTIN 4/21/2009

SAN MATEO,FOSTER CITY,BELMONT,REDWOOD CITY,SAN CARLOS, 4/14/2009

BERKELEY, ALBANY, KENSINGTON 4/22/2009

SAN CARLOS, BELMONT, REDWOOD CITY, EMERALD HILLS, WOODSIDE, SAN MATEO, 4/27/2009

Barovelli

05-08-09, 12:07 AM

Nice to be back on point.

I've heard of an RNG200, but not an RNG110... What's the difference?

'110 is an HD only set-top. Plastic case. All the normal connections. No clock/display. Outboard 5vdc power brick (I hate power bricks, and especially ones that stray from the normal 12v). Looks like an Arris EMTA, no hard edges.

The DCX HD box is similar - but has the 12v power brick. And is boxy shaped.

bwelling

05-08-09, 01:16 AM

Just to clarify the amount of delay in the conversion, our letter from Comcast was dated 27-Feb-09 and said that the conversion could begin as soon as 6-Apr-09.

OK, so about a month. Thanks!

Tom Koegel

05-09-09, 11:22 AM

On D*, there was some really interesting artifacting on the NBC11 broadcast of the Giants-Dodgers game. It was not like the usual digital blockiness I'm used to seeing from digital compression. The picture looked like good, but not great, HD when the camera was stationary. But when the camera panned, the background (e.g., the crowd as the camera followed a foul ball into the stands) broke down into non-geometric blobs. Best description might have been like paisley-shaped watermarks. Really weird. Almost as weird as Zito getting a win. In any event, did anyone notice this on the Comcast broadcast?

Mikef5

05-09-09, 12:28 PM

Tom Koegel

05-09-09, 12:46 PM

Nope, watched the whole game on Comcast and it was fine, especially with the shocker of Zito getting a win :eek: ( he's actually looked really good his last 2 starts ).

I have always said that if Zicasso (Boras described him as Picasso using a baseball to "paint", hence the name) gets back into form, we'll have a really excellent $18MM . . . fourth starter. ;) Say, maybe that was it . . . the paisley watermarked background was an effect of Zicasso's painterly excellence.

Will be interesting to compare the Fox broadcast quality on today's game. I haven't caught any of their Saturday broadcasts this year.

Thanks for the Comcast evaluation.

Mikef5

05-09-09, 10:46 PM

I have always said that if Zicasso (Boras described him as Picasso using a baseball to "paint", hence the name) gets back into form, we'll have a really excellent $18MM . . . fourth starter. ;) Say, maybe that was it . . . the paisley watermarked background was an effect of Zicasso's painterly excellence.

Will be interesting to compare the Fox broadcast quality on today's game. I haven't caught any of their Saturday broadcasts this year.

Thanks for the Comcast evaluation.
Tom,

As hard as it was to watch ( a shutout is a horrible thing to watch :o ), I did manage to survive today's game on Fox. Not a good day for the Giant's but it seemed that the usual soft HD picture that Fox normally has wasn't that bad today, as a matter of fact it looked pretty good given their track record. Just wish there had been a better outcome to the game.

If the Giant's can give more run support to Zito he might just be the pitcher that they thought they had when they signed him up ( I'm looking forward to his next start ) but if today's game is an omen of things to come..... it's going to be a long season. Hopefully, they will get their act together and this was just a minor setback. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

fender4645

05-10-09, 01:55 AM

Engadget has a good article on the basics of HD. While many of you may find it elementary, the section on 'QAM' is a pretty good read.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/05/08/hd-101-what-is-atsc-psip-qam-and-8-vsb/

Cal1981

05-10-09, 01:14 PM

Nope, watched the whole game on Comcast and it was fine, especially with the shocker of Zito getting a win :eek: ( he's actually looked really good his last 2 starts ).

Laters,
Mikef5
Hey Mike, I caught a few innings of the game and thought that Zito looked like a completely different guy from the last 2 years. What was really noticeable was his fastball. It was in the high 80s but had some nice tailing movement on it. His normally good breaking stuff now can really set the fastball up and I can't remember when we last saw that from Barry. Of course the Giants' "mighty" offense threatens to make Zito the Matt Cain of 2009:(

wintertime

05-11-09, 12:01 AM

TPeterson

05-11-09, 12:55 AM

Patty--

I don't know anything about Comcast's intent, but assuming that HBO-HD is still on the same channel as back in February when they showed the We Are One concert as a freebie, it's not in the clear here either tonight.

jasonander

05-11-09, 03:02 AM

wintertime

05-11-09, 10:22 AM

My latest Comcast bill says that the free HBO and Cinemax preview is June 12 - 16. So you'll have to wait another month. :)
Yeah, well, that won't do any good for the folks who wanted to watch the special series that HBO was attempting to make available to everyone free... :(

TPeterson, thanks for the info about the San Carlos area.

Patty

Mikef5

05-11-09, 12:44 PM

Hope this isn't off-topic, since not all HBO channels are HD, but I was wondering whether any Comcast users in the Bay Area who don't subscribe to HBO are getting the HBO free preview tonight.

I had read (not on Comcast's own website, however) that they were going to participate in the free preview for HBO's "Alzheimer's Project" documentaries (tonight through Tuesday), and I had told a bunch of family and friends they could watch. But HBO isn't in the clear here in Sunnyvale, so I don't know whether it's a local foul-up, whether the information I read was incorrect, or whether Comcast's Bay Area division decided not to participate. Anyone know?

Patty

Patty,

I haven't heard of any free previews of HBO anytime soon but if you were worried about not seeing "Alzheimer's Project" consider yourself lucky.

I watched it and it was by far the most demoralizing, uninspiring and most disheartening program I have ever viewed. I rarely do a review of a program but this one was just atrocious in every way. If it's intent was to show the hopelessness of the disease and to scare the heck out of people that feel they might have the disease, then it accomplished it's goal. I'm serious, this program offered no help, no hope....it offered nothing to inspire or to give hope. I do not know what Maria Shriver hoped to accomplish with this program. She really needed to balance the program not only with the bad things about the disease but with a little inspiration or some hope. There wasn't even some type of educational value to the show. No history of what the disease is, what studies have been done or what treatments have been tested or have shown some effectiveness for treating the disease.

I'm sorry I soap boxed this topic but I viewed this program with my mother ( who is 82 years old and in the early stages of the disease ) on Mother's Day, which is IMHO a very bad choice of days to air this type of disheartening programing.

Laters,
Mikef5

TPeterson

05-11-09, 01:47 PM

Mike--

I'm very sorry to hear about your mother's condition. I have had very little contact with Alzheimer's patients so far and I didn't see that show, but what I have seen and heard about the disease doesn't give me much hope either. Your points about the show's incompleteness and questionable timing are very good ones, IMO.

--Terry

walk

05-11-09, 01:58 PM

TPeterson

05-11-09, 02:01 PM

The "We Are One" concert HBO feature in February was transmitted in the clear.

Oops...make that "January", as it was just before Inauguration Day.

MikeSM

05-11-09, 04:56 PM

HBO wouldn't be "in the clear", you would need a digital cable box to decode it. The box would just be authorized for the weekend or whatever free preivew period.

(Actually all the HBO channels are in HD, Comcast just doesn't carry them.)

Actually, that's not right. When all these free previews are going on, the crypto usually gets tuned off, at least in my experience that is the case.

walk

05-11-09, 06:40 PM

Ok I could be wrong.

wintertime

05-12-09, 12:36 AM

I haven't heard of any free previews of HBO anytime soon but if you were worried about not seeing "Alzheimer's Project" consider yourself lucky.
I have DirecTV, so am able to watch the series myself. I was trying to get information on Comcast's plans for some friends and family members who wanted to see the series.

I watched it and it was by far the most demoralizing, uninspiring and most disheartening program I have ever viewed.
Sorry you feel that way. Yes, the first program was difficult to watch, but I applaud the families who allowed themselves to be filmed.

I do not know what Maria Shriver hoped to accomplish with this program. She really needed to balance the program not only with the bad things about the disease but with a little inspiration or some hope.
Oh, I thought you were talking about last night's episode. I haven't seen the two eps from tonight yet, including the one with Maria Shriver.

There wasn't even some type of educational value to the show. No history of what the disease is, what studies have been done or what treatments have been tested or have shown some effectiveness for treating the disease.
That's correct, Ms. Shriver's episode was entirely about children dealing with Alzheimer's in a parent or grandparent. It was not intended to address the scientific aspects. Research on the disease is covered in the two-part episode "Momentum in Science." Part 1 aired tonight, and Part 2 will air tomorrow night. You did know that it's a four-part series, right? So far, I have found it very much up to HBO's high documentary standards.

Patty

TPeterson

05-12-09, 03:31 PM

I just discovered that there appears to be no PSIP EIT data on any of the channels that had it as recently as last week. Anybody have insights on whether this is a permanent change or just temporary (perhaps related to the upcoming digital switch on my headend)?

Brian Conrad

05-12-09, 07:18 PM

Mixed in with the usual Tuesday ad fliers in the mail was one from Comcast advertising "Comcast Basic Cable" for $10 per month for 12 months.

hiker

05-12-09, 08:19 PM

Mixed in with the usual Tuesday ad fliers in the mail was one from Comcast advertising "Comcast Basic Cable" for $10 per month for 12 months.What Basic? Could be Limited Basic or Expanded Basic, but probably from that price it must be Limited.

ssmobin

05-12-09, 09:02 PM

Mike,

Do you know if you can still get network HD channels (like you could before the conversion with a tv that has a digtal tuner) with the DTA box that comcast supplies?

ssmobin

05-12-09, 09:05 PM

I am in Walnut Creek and today I am not receiving any digital signals or Network HD channels. I wonder if they flipped the switch on us. I havent received anything in the mail and if I did I must have tossed it.

Mikef5

05-12-09, 09:24 PM

Mike,

Do you know if you can still get network HD channels (like you could before the conversion with a tv that has a digtal tuner) with the DTA box that comcast supplies?
The DTA box is a Digital to Analog converter box. It takes the digital signal and converts it to an analog signal which is then fed to an analog Tv so that the analog Tv can view those digital channels and that's all that it does. If you have a digital tv you will still get the network HD channels just like before and you don't need the DTA box at all. These boxes are for owners of the old analog Tv's, not for people with digital Tv's with a digital tuner. I hope that helps to answer your question.

Laters,
Mikef5

ssmobin

05-12-09, 09:41 PM

The DTA box is a Digital to Analog converter box. It takes the digital signal and converts it to an analog signal which is then fed to an analog Tv so that the analog Tv can view those digital channels and that's all that it does. If you have a digital tv you will still get the network HD channels just like before and you don't need the DTA box at all. These boxes are for owners of the old analog Tv's, not for people with digital Tv's with a digital tuner. I hope that helps to answer your question.

Laters,
Mikef5
Thanks for the reply and thats what I thought, but after ditching my Premium package and DVR box, the comcast rep at the Livermore office told me that I will need a DTA box once they start broadcasting all channels digitally. So I am not sure where the confusion is and why they are stating I need to get a box.

Apparently the switch is happening on May 30th in my area (Walnut Creek 94596), however today when I came home I cant access any of the HD Network channels with my TV's digital Tuner (which was working fine yesterday...channel 7 was abc, channel 7.1 was abc hd).

When I switch to 7.1 it says ABC HD however I just get a black screen.

I really dont want a box anymore and would prefer to just use my TV's digital tuner, but I am not sure why its not picking up any of the HD Network channels or the digital channels (I was receiving digital signals of all the expanded basic channels starting on channel 90 and above as of yesterday)

I did a rescan with my tv's digital tuner and while the tuner found those channels they dont come in (hd or digital signals), I simply get a black screen when I change to those channels

Mikef5

05-12-09, 10:05 PM

Thanks for the reply and thats what I thought, but after ditching my Premium package and DVR box, the comcast rep at the Livermore office told me that I will need a DTA box once they start broadcasting all channels digitally. So I am not sure where the confusion is and why they are stating I need to get a box.

Apparently the switch is happening on May 30th in my area (Walnut Creek 94596), however today when I came home I cant access any of the HD Network channels with my TV's digital Tuner (which was working fine yesterday...channel 7 was abc, channel 7.1 was abc hd).

When I switch to 7.1 it says ABC HD however I just get a black screen.

I really dont want a box anymore and would prefer to just use my TV's digital tuner, but I am not sure why its not picking up any of the HD Network channels or the digital channels (I was receiving digital signals of all the expanded basic channels starting on channel 90 and above as of yesterday)

I did a rescan with my tv's digital tuner and while the tuner found those channels they dont come in (hd or digital signals), I simply get a black screen when I change to those channels

For now the only channels that are being converted to digital are the channels 35 and above, the rest will remain analog for about another 3 years and then those will be converted to digital also.

The local channels, including the HD channels, are not encrypted and should be available to any digital tuner. Your tv may not see the HD channels, like ABC-HD, at the same channel ( 7.1 in this case ). You may have to look through the entire channels that you have scanned to fine out where they are now at. Not knowing what tv you have I don't know how it interprets the channels. Both by Vizio and Sony see channel 7.1 ( ABC-HD ) but my LG Tuner sees it at 117-1. So it's a game of hide and seek.

One thing to check is whether or not your Tv needs to do a new complete scan or not. Some Tv's will keep the original scanned channels and just add new channels that it finds. You may have to do a complete new scan, that's what I had to do with my LG tuner. Hope this helps.

Laters,
Mikef5

ssmobin

05-12-09, 10:35 PM

For now the only channels that are being converted to digital are the channels 35 and above, the rest will remain analog for about another 3 years and then those will be converted to digital also.

The local channels, including the HD channels, are not encrypted and should be available to any digital tuner. Your tv may not see the HD channels, like ABC-HD, at the same channel ( 7.1 in this case ). You may have to look through the entire channels that you have scanned to fine out where they are now at. Not knowing what tv you have I don't know how it interprets the channels. Both by Vizio and Sony see channel 7.1 ( ABC-HD ) but my LG Tuner sees it at 117-1. So it's a game of hide and seek.

One thing to check is whether or not your Tv needs to do a new complete scan or not. Some Tv's will keep the original scanned channels and just add new channels that it finds. You may have to do a complete new scan, that's what I had to do with my LG tuner. Hope this helps.

Laters,
Mikef5

Thanks for the info on the local channels. I have a Pionner PRO-1130HD. I did a rescan and its picking up 7.1 KGO-DT (which was abc HD as of yesterday) but not displaying a picture, just a black screen. The strange thing is that it is now showing 7.2 KGO-New (which wasnt there yesterday), so I am wondering if comcast is doing some things on their end before the May 30th switch.

None of the HD channels are coming in even though the scan picked them up. 2.1 FOX-HD, 4.2 KRON-HD, 5.1 CBS-HD, 7.1 ABC-HD, 9.1 KQED HD, 11.1 NBC HD etc.

I am hoping it is just a signal glitch on comcasts part, but will search the rest of the channels it picked up (after channel 80, all the channels it picked up arent displaying a picture, just a black screen like the HD channels) again to double check and see if anything shows up.

Thanks again for the help.

maddog510

05-12-09, 11:05 PM

Where does Silicondust get their info from? I typed in my zip code which is 94534 & it showed the wrong lineup for my area.

Brian Conrad

05-12-09, 11:10 PM

What Basic? Could be Limited Basic or Expanded Basic, but probably from that price it must be Limited.

Yes, it is "Limited Basic" though they don't say that. Instead it says: local TV stations plus PBS, Discovery Channel and C-SPAN. So no shopping channels? :D

Tom Koegel

05-12-09, 11:27 PM

Are the Giants in HD tonight on 720 or 721? The guide in D* says we should have a high def feed, but it didn't show up.

It's nice to be playing the Nats . . . it's a little easier to take the low def feed when the hometown nine are scoring runs . . . and for the long run-starved Mr. Cain!

nikeykid

05-13-09, 02:11 AM

hiker

05-13-09, 09:20 AM

Yes, it is "Limited Basic" though they don't say that. Instead it says: local TV stations plus PBS, Discovery Channel and C-SPAN. So no shopping channels? :DI wonder if the offer is for new customers only? But they sent it to you and you are a current customer?

Never seen them run a special on Limited Basic before. I thought they didn't even want to offer it but were pressured by FCC to do so. I'm frequently called with an offer to get me to upgrade to Standard Cable. They must be desperate for any business they can get.

hcady

05-13-09, 11:39 AM

The basic offer for $10 is for the people that will lose analog over the air stations on june 12 and have problems with digital broadcast. Comcast is just trying to pick up a few more customers and then will be able to promote other more expensive services.

Brian Conrad

05-13-09, 12:42 PM

The ad is just a flier mixed right in with the grocery and drug store fliers. It is targeted to anyone specifically. It says it is limited to "new residential customers."

RBurks

05-13-09, 01:26 PM

Patty,
...if you were worried about not seeing "Alzheimer's Project" consider yourself lucky.

I watched it and it was by far the most demoralizing, uninspiring and most disheartening program I have ever viewed. I rarely do a review of a program but this one was just atrocious in every way. If it's intent was to show the hopelessness of the disease and to scare the heck out of people that feel they might have the disease, then it accomplished it's goal. I'm serious, this program offered no help, no hope....it offered nothing to inspire or to give hope. I do not know what Maria Shriver hoped to accomplish with this program. She really needed to balance the program not only with the bad things about the disease but with a little inspiration or some hope. There wasn't even some type of educational value to the show. No history of what the disease is, what studies have been done or what treatments have been tested or have shown some effectiveness for treating the disease.
...
Laters,
Mikef5

I watched the KQED documentary on mental illness, and it ended with the sobering statistic that twice as many people are affected with schizophrenia than alzheimers. And the statistics on bipolar (when collected) will probably sober us all...likely affecting around 10% of the population".

Perhaps the point is the critical message must be delivered for people to take action. Sun Tzu's "death ground", leaving no option but to fight for your life.

Perhaps?

somekind

05-13-09, 02:02 PM

I rescanned my TV and all my cable channels are in 3 digit format. Where can I find a list of the channels and the numbers they correspond to?

fuzzywuzzy

05-13-09, 03:09 PM

I'm using a Comcast direct input to my HDTV and need to search out channels manually. I rescanned but just can't find it anywhere. Comcast says it's 187.

Thanks

walk

05-13-09, 05:13 PM

Everything above 72 or so is encrypted, you need a cable box.

TPeterson

05-13-09, 05:44 PM

That's not correct. Many channels above 72 are unencrypted QAM. For those you just need to figure out which is which when you don't have a cable box. For the 53rd time: Check the Silicondust website channel list for your zipcode as a first cut at mapping out the clear-QAM stations.

05-13-09, 05:48 PM

Everything above 72 or so is encrypted, you need a cable box.

No. There are unencrypted channels in the 18x-19x range and 702-712. Don't know about 187 specificly.

PerkyNot

05-13-09, 07:11 PM

How do I find Universal Sports on QAM in Los Gatos

I'm looking at the channel right now on my TV direct. I'm getting it on Virtual channel 11.3

Check this site to see what channel you are suppose to use: www.silicondust.com

John

walk

05-13-09, 09:11 PM

Oh, it's KNTV-DT3, that's why.

No. There are unencrypted channels in the 18x-19x range and 702-712. Don't know about 187 specificly.

Going by Comcast's channel numbers that is, not the QAM channel #, the digital channels above 72ish are encrypted (if they are not a local station sub-channel or etc). 702-712 are Comcast channel numbers, not QAM. Those are the local HD feeds normally found on (QAM) 2.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, etc.

TPeterson

05-13-09, 09:40 PM

The "channel number" where things are "normally found" depends on how you go about acquiring them. Some equipment displays the Comcast numbers (189, 702, etc.), others show the broadcasters' "virtual channel" numbers (2.1, 9.4, etc.) provided Comcast passes that information along in the data stream, and still others show the traditional (aka "real") cable channel numbers (2-158 for a 1-GHz cable system).

somekind

05-13-09, 10:05 PM

For the 53rd time: Check the Silicondust website channel list for your zipcode as a first cut at mapping out the clear-QAM stations.

I just checked their lineup and the information is not accurate for my area. The channels are close, but some are off by one or two.

Are there any other resources?

MikeSM

05-14-09, 05:37 PM

I just checked their lineup and the information is not accurate for my area. The channels are close, but some are off by one or two.

Are there any other resources?

get a DTA and look at the channel mapping info on the diagnostic screens. It won't help with HD stations, but everything else will be there.

somekind

05-14-09, 05:49 PM

get a DTA and look at the channel mapping info on the diagnostic screens. It won't help with HD stations, but everything else will be there.

I don't really know what 'get DTA' means, besides the fact that I'm already seeing the channels. All I want to get is a list of what's being offered in my area to print out. I can do it myself, but what a waste!! At least I should know where to submit the information if I bother to take the time to ID the channels I'm getting.

05-14-09, 06:09 PM

I don't really know what 'get DTA' means, besides the fact that I'm already seeing the channels. All I want to get is a list of what's being offered in my area to print out. I can do it myself, but what a waste!! At least I should know where to submit the information if I bother to take the time to ID the channels I'm getting.

DTA has the most up-to-date mapping info. Whatever you write down/submit today may be outdated tomorrow.

somekind

05-14-09, 06:29 PM

Sorry to be a burden, but I'm only interested in getting up-to-date channel assignments for CA. Is there a website that supports this information?

bobby94928

05-14-09, 06:36 PM

There is NO channel assignment for California. Not even for a given city. They are all dependent on every single head end and they can change at any moment. You are trying to simplify something that isn't simple at all. Said differently KTVU is on channel 132-2 in parts of San Francisco and on channel 128-2 in Rohnert Park.....

somekind

05-14-09, 06:58 PM

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

I figured that the internet would have more information than COMCAST.

After I finish compiling my local channel info, where do I upload it?

TPeterson

05-14-09, 08:47 PM

Since, as Bobby said, the line-up is subject to change at Comcast's whim it's really not worthwhile to upload it anywhere. The Silicondust website is automatically "maintained" via automated collection of data from HD Homerun users and is the best bet for current lineups. But as you saw, even that is sometimes out of date.

walk

05-14-09, 09:12 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Comcast entered the correct program ID for all the digitial channels wouldn't that mean i.e. channel 37 = 37 and so on?

You'd think it would take about 15 minutes to do that, but I guess Comcost has other priorities, like charging you more money for a cable box.

tranle

05-14-09, 09:33 PM

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

I figured that the internet would have more information than COMCAST.

After I finish compiling my local channel info, where do I upload it?
You could use docs.google.com to create a spreadsheet and share it.
I have one here but it is just for Comcast in Mountain View CA 94041:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pRHsUtrmk0c1FIeiBnLsNKA

somekind

05-15-09, 02:14 AM

You could use docs.google.com to create a .spreadsheet and share it.
I have one here but it is just for Comcast in Mountain View CA 94041:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pRHsUtrmk0c1FIeiBnLsNKA
That's what I have to do. I can't believe that I have to make my own channel list. Is everyone doing this? S.T.U.P.I.D.

I go online to find solutions to my problems. Where are the internet gods when I need them???

nikeykid

05-15-09, 04:44 AM

That's what I have to do. I can't believe that I have to make my own channel list. Is everyone doing this? S.T.U.P.I.D.

I go online to find solutions to my problems. Where are the internet gods when I need them???

not sure what you want from people when the channel assignments change frequently and are all different based on which part of the city you are in.

RBurks

05-15-09, 01:41 PM

Ouch - I rescanned QAM last night. It seems uglier than what you might get doing it completely random.

So is there any hope they will cleanup of all this after the digital switch, or will Comcast just leave it like it is - all messed up.

BTW - we got 2 of those "baby boxes" yesterday. Seems like they are teasers to make you want to pay for the better boxes that give you the premium channels you are already paying for, and On Demand. A lot of work to just get to the basic digital channels. Unfortunately need them as got two old non-digital TVs

I love Comcast!

Brian Conrad

05-15-09, 04:18 PM

I was lookng at Silicon Dust's listings for my zip code which HAS been accurate in the past but now they seem to reflect the other headend that is in this town. There are two serving Martinez. I should probably alert them to the fact there are sometimes more than one Comcast headend serving a community probably due to different cable companies serving the community at one time.

dlou99

05-16-09, 01:58 AM

That's what I have to do. I can't believe that I have to make my own channel list. Is everyone doing this? S.T.U.P.I.D.

I go online to find solutions to my problems. Where are the internet gods when I need them???
Sorry to be a burden, but I'm only interested in getting up-to-date channel assignments for CA. Is there a website that supports this information?

Not entirely sure what you are looking for. Are you looking for something along the lines of this?

CHANNEL ASSIGNEDTO NAME
------------------------------------------
53 128.11 NICK
54 128.7 TOON
55 78.6 DIS
56 119.7 CNN
etc...

Comcast actually sends this out with the broadcast. I have a program that picks it up, decodes it and spits out the above output.

Tom V

05-16-09, 11:06 AM

Not entirely sure what you are looking for. Are you looking for something along the lines of this?

CHANNEL ASSIGNEDTO NAME
------------------------------------------
53 128.11 NICK
54 128.7 TOON
55 78.6 DIS
56 119.7 CNN
etc...

Comcast actually sends this out with the broadcast. I have a program that picks it up, decodes it and spits out the above output.

What program ?

maddog510

05-16-09, 01:23 PM

this is what silicondust says my lineup is for 94533 which is incorrect.
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:94534#lineup_272153
they have inacurate data.

TPeterson

05-16-09, 01:50 PM

Yes, the Silicondust lineups are derived from customer scans and at times, such as now when there are more than the usual number of station changes, those will be out of date. That's why I recommended it as a "first cut" for finding out what's where. I note that there are right now two lineups shown for your zipcode. The lineups for my zipcode are also messed up right now.

The best solution in terms of timeliness, of course, is to use the SCTE-65 data as dlou99's program does. However, that's rather less convenient than going to the Silicondust site--and it evidently doesn't give you the HD locals.

CharlesGH

05-16-09, 07:01 PM

That's what I have to do. I can't believe that I have to make my own channel list. Is everyone doing this? S.T.U.P.I.D. Comcast REALLY wants you to rent a set-top box from them, so they can push their pay products. They have no incentive to make it convenient to just hook up your QAM-capable TV. Similarly, they only support cable cards (e.g, for HD Tivo) because the government ordered them to do so.

marc.aronson

05-17-09, 01:31 AM

05-17-09, 01:44 AM

He said that Comcast does plan to start encrypting the extended basic channels once they finish all the network conversions.

Unless Comcast wants to throw away all of the DTAs which were just deployed, I would say that statement is BS.

dlou99

05-17-09, 02:12 AM

What program ?

The one I attached several posts up.

However, since then I've updated it a bit. In response to the peanut gallery, I changed the output to look more like the above, added PSIP so you'll have the HD locals, made it compile under Windows and added HDHomerun support (no idea if it works because I don't have one; it was only a couple extra lines of code after putting in file/stdin input mode).

The new version is at http://scte65scan.sourceforge.net

marc.aronson

05-17-09, 10:24 AM

dlou99, nice program. Have you found a way to automatically determine which VCT_ID is the appropraite choice? In my area I need to use 3055, but it took a fair amount of comparing of the VCT tables to schedulesdirect to figure out the right one. I'm figuring there must be some way to do this automatically, as the DTA box they shipped to my house somehow figures it out...

Marc

Barovelli

05-17-09, 10:52 AM

KGO AM 810 talk radio had someone on from Comcast today to discuss the digital conversion. I didn't catch his last name, but I believe his first name was Andrew.

The famed "Mr. J."

Encrypted can describe a few processes, from Open Cable digital encryption to putting a trap on the cable.

Brian Conrad

05-17-09, 01:06 PM

The famed "Mr. J" sounds like he's in his 20s. :D

I loved how Michael Finney freaked when the calls became technical about QAM. Welcome to the digital age, America. :p

viperx116

05-17-09, 02:23 PM

Damn, just found out I need a cable box for the Jade channel now. Why can't they put it in the clear...

ZildjianKX

05-17-09, 02:26 PM

KGO AM 810 talk radio had someone on from Comcast today to discuss the digital conversion. I didn't catch his last name, but I believe his first name was Andrew. I asked him about Comcast's plans on the extended basic channels. He said that Comcast does plan to start encrypting the extended basic channels once they finish all the network conversions. His estimate was that this would happen in the November - December time frame.

Marc

Were you the caller from Cupertino?

Yours was the only call that was at all interesting, and the show's host was a total douche to you. I got so pissed after how rude he was that I turned it off after that.

I really don't like how they kept saying that all you need is a TV with a QAM tuner and you're set. If you want extended basic channels soon, a QAM tuner isn't going to do it if they encrypt them...

I'm also confused about them mentioning a line filter. I don't think a line filter is going to "filter out" clear QAM stations, but maybe I'm wrong.

Also, I had no idea why my TiVo series 3 was picking up the extended basic channels with my cable cards until I heard your call, makes sense now. I just downgraded my package to limited basic after my promo ended and was pretty happy to still be getting those channels.

Did anyone ask them about when Tru2way is being rolled out in the Bay?

marc.aronson

05-17-09, 03:07 PM

Were you the caller from Cupertino?

Yours was the only call that was at all interesting...

That was me. I'm glad you found the question interesting and I appreciate that feedback -- I did feel that the host was a bit rude & cut me off prematurely. If we had been able to talk for a few more minutes it would have been clear how the issue effects many of his listeners. There are many issues at play:

1. Prior to my call the Comcast guest stated that TV's with QAM tuners can tune all of your channels w/ out problems. We all know this isn't true as the encrypted channels also require your TV set to have a cable card slot. This latter point was never stated and is very important.

2. I didn't hear the discussion about the line filter, but I've read about it elsewhere. There is a filter in your connection that can filter out a subset of frequencies. Your filter can be activated and de-activated remotely by Comcast. Historically it was used to turn off the unencypted extended basic channels to the homes of those that did not subscribe to that service.

Comcast has a legitimate need to prevent people from accessing services they are not paying for. During the restructuring of their network some stuff is unencrypted that, in the end, they plan to encrypt. Once the dust settles, to the best of my understanding they have 2 choices:

3a. Encrypt extended basic channels. This would be a very bad choice for the average consumer as it means that the many digital TVs with clear-QAM tuners will not be able to access the majority of the programming they are paying for without the renting a cable box.

3b. From what I understand Comcast would have to violate current regulations to take the approach described in 3a. It has to do with the way the DTA boxes they are giving out were designed.

4. Move the extended basic digital channels into the frequency range controlled by the filter. This way they can turn off extended-basic to the households that aren't paying for it while still leaving them unencrypted. This would be the ideal choice for many of us, as it would enable us to continue to use our digital tuners in our TV sets for many of the channels we are paying to have access to.

The guest seemed to imply that they are headed down the path described in point 3a. This would be painful and I hope they do not do this.

Marc