Hahahahaha...yeah, I meant Voom. :D

Not true, Fox did not show the game in HD, Cox (KTVU) shows what ever they get from Fox ( for the away games ), so if it's not in HD and it's an away game then it's Fox's doings. KTVU will do the local games in HD or FSNBA-HD will do them depending on who gets the rights to show the games. Usually, the only way we get away games in HD is if it's the game of the week ( for Fox ) or it's on ESPN-HD. So let's point the finger ( you choose which one ;) ) at the real culprits.
At least the A's were shown in HD, can't figure why they don't get more coverage, they are a much better team and that's coming from a die hard Giants fan .

Laters,
Mikef5

wasn't the giants phillies game a KTVU broadcast only? usually the 4pm game after the 1pm saturday game on FOX is a local broadcast. in that case, its KTVU produced isn't it?

Yeah, it was locally-produced. FOX had nothing to do with it.

Not true, Fox did not show the game in HD, Cox (KTVU) shows what ever they get from Fox ( for the away games ), so if it's not in HD and it's an away game then it's Fox's doings. KTVU will do the local games in HD or FSNBA-HD will do them depending on who gets the rights to show the games. Usually, the only way we get away games in HD is if it's the game of the week ( for Fox ) or it's on ESPN-HD. So let's point the finger ( you choose which one ;) ) at the real culprits.
At least the A's were shown in HD, can't figure why they don't get more coverage, they are a much better team and that's coming from a die hard Giants fan .

Laters,
Mikef5


Do you think KTVU will be showing the A's/Giants series in HD this coming weekend?

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on the S3 w/ the $200 rebate from Costco. I talked to the one of the workers at Costco today and he said the S3 is covered by the "return anytime" policy. But I guess it doesn't matter too much since you need to sign a 1-year agreement with Tivo for the rebate. I haven't had a Tivo in my house since 2001 so I'm looking forward to using it.

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on the S3 w/ the $200 rebate from Costco. I talked to the one of the workers at Costco today and he said the S3 is covered by the "return anytime" policy. But I guess it doesn't matter too much since you need to sign a 1-year agreement with Tivo for the rebate. I haven't had a Tivo in my house since 2001 so I'm looking forward to using it.

Surely, an expensive proposition. I think that I can live with the limitations of the Moto 6412 (as I have three of them) and hopefully, the Tivo interface will arrive sooner rather than later (although it does not seem too hopeful). The Tivo solution is simply too expensive. Tivo should be giving these boxes for a minimun amount and getting the subscriptions rather than trying to make money out them (and the cable cards are provided by Comcast!!). Certainly, not the smartest company around. Had they been, they should have tried to get the Comcast software running instead of wasting time and capital with the Series 3. Yes, the interface is elegant but it is not worth all that money.

Surely, an expensive proposition. I think that I can live with the limitations of the Moto 6412 (as I have three of them) and hopefully, the Tivo interface will arrive sooner rather than later (although it does not seem too hopeful). The Tivo solution is simply too expensive. Tivo should be giving these boxes for a minimun amount and getting the subscriptions rather than trying to make money out them (and the cable cards are provided by Comcast!!). Certainly, not the smartest company around. Had they been, they should have tried to get the Comcast software running instead of wasting time and capital with the Series 3. Yes, the interface is elegant but it is not worth all that money.

Believe me...I've debated that same point many a times. There's multiple threads devoted to this debate so I won't bring it here. Basically though, $800 was not worth it...$400 I thought was.

Believe me...I've debated that same point many a times. There's multiple threads devoted to this debate so I won't bring it here. Basically though, $800 was not worth it...$400 I thought was.
Definitely, I'm seriously mulling over getting a second one myself since it would only add about $9 to my monthly bill, including the TiVo subscription. What's holding me back is I don't know when Comcast is going to upgrade this system up here, if I get the 2nd S3 I would like to be able to drop some of the premium channels and maybe Dish or DirecTV altogether and just go with Comcast for those channels. I suspect that I won't see anymore HD until 2008 though, and who knows what will be available by then.

I've read in the past few days that TiVo plans to cut back severely on rebate programs soon so I don't know if this sort of deal will be around much anymore, this current one ends the 16th I believe.

You're going to love that S3, spend another $120 or so and you can triple your record space, which BTW, is about 6-7 times the space of the Moto DVR.

Do you think KTVU will be showing the A's/Giants series in HD this coming weekend?
Friday's game is scheduled to be shown in HD and so is the Sunday game ( on FSNBA-HD) but the Saturday game is not, but that doesn't mean it won't, just that the schedule doesn't show it being in HD.

Laters,
Mikef5

Definitely, I'm seriously mulling over getting a second one myself since it would only add about $9 to my monthly bill, including the TiVo subscription. What's holding me back is I don't know when Comcast is going to upgrade this system up here, if I get the 2nd S3 I would like to be able to drop some of the premium channels and maybe Dish or DirecTV altogether and just go with Comcast for those channels. I suspect that I won't see anymore HD until 2008 though, and who knows what will be available by then.

I've read in the past few days that TiVo plans to cut back severely on rebate programs soon so I don't know if this sort of deal will be around much anymore, this current one ends the 16th I believe.

You're going to love that S3, spend another $120 or so and you can triple your record space, which BTW, is about 6-7 times the space of the Moto DVR.
So Jim,
Have you heard about the Tivo-Lite that is in the works ?? Just wondering if they were going to make them bi-directional or if it's going to be like the original S3. The only thing that stops me from getting one of the Tivo's is it not being bi-directional and as far as I know they can't be upgraded later to be bi-directional. I know they are saying the Tivo-Lite will be around $400 but will lack some of the functionality of the S3 and that's about all I've been able to find out about it.

Laters,
Mikef5

Surely, an expensive proposition. I think that I can live with the limitations of the Moto 6412 (as I have three of them) and hopefully, the Tivo interface will arrive sooner rather than later (although it does not seem too hopeful).
For me, the one thing that makes the S3 worth it is it can be expanded to enough space to actually be useful. S3 is currently up to 265hrs of HD (2513 SD hrs)

132hrs per tuner is a good # for me since I assign 1 tuner per station (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) so there is natural inherent :01 :59 overlap protection without resorting to truncating.

What does the 6412 do these days, 15hrs or so shared among 2 tuners? That won't even handle 3 days of recording for me, making it totally useless (for me)

So Jim,
Have you heard about the Tivo-Lite that is in the works ?? Just wondering if they were going to make them bi-directional or if it's going to be like the original S3. The only thing that stops me from getting one of the Tivo's is it not being bi-directional and as far as I know they can't be upgraded later to be bi-directional. I know they are saying the Tivo-Lite will be around $400 but will lack some of the functionality of the S3 and that's about all I've been able to find out about it.

Laters,
Mikef5
There's not enough info about the lite model yet, if I had some specifics, it would help with my decision on whether or not to get the S3. I could care less about bi-directionality, PPV, etc. my only concern would be a massive deployment of SDV but I really don't see that happening, hopefully not soon anyway.

What does the 6412 do these days, 15hrs or so shared among 2 tuners? That won't even handle 3 days of recording for me, making it totally useless (for me)
That was one of my biggest aggravations with the 6412, I couldn't even take a week vacation without the thing filling up, I was constantly watching shows, often when I really didn't want to, just to free up space. I don't miss that 6412 at all!

There's not enough info about the lite model yet, if I had some specifics, it would help with my decision on whether or not to get the S3. I could care less about bi-directionality, PPV, etc. my only concern would be a massive deployment of SDV but I really don't see that happening, hopefully not soon anyway.
That was another concern that I had but if they made it bi-directional that would make it easier to make it compatible with SDV. You would think Tivo would've thought about that but then again if they had made it bi-directional to begin with you wouldn't need their guide or software which I'm pretty sure that's one reason they didn't make it bi-directional, so you're locked into their software, not that that's a bad thing ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

That was another concern that I had but if they made it bi-directional that would make it easier to make it compatible with SDV. You would think Tivo would've thought about that but then again if they had made it bi-directional to begin with you wouldn't need their guide or software which I'm pretty sure that's one reason they didn't make it bi-directional, so you're locked into their software, not that that's a bad thing ;)

Laters,
Mikef5
I believe the current S3 was conceived almost 2 years ago so the fact that it's not bi-directional is not really a TiVo failing, I would expect that the lite model would be though, seems like it would almost have to be. The one thing I've read about it, pure speculation of course, is that it may only have one tuner as a cost cutting measure, and that wouldn't work for me.

I believe the current S3 was conceived almost 2 years ago so the fact that it's not bi-directional is not really a TiVo failing, I would expect that the lite model would be though, seems like it would almost have to be. The one thing I've read about it, pure speculation of course, is that it may only have one tuner as a cost cutting measure, and that wouldn't work for me.
Wow, one tuner would be the kiss of death for me. You would have to watch what you are recording or record and watch a recorded show. Hope Tivo isn't that myopic that they would go that extreme just to cut costs. Well, it's not out yet so we'll just have to wait and see but that $400 for a S3 is sure tempting :p

Laters,
Mikef5

Wasn't there some convoluted licensing that would force your implementation to cede control of the TV-top if one decided to create a bi-directional solution?

There was a post about that recently on tivocommunity.

For me, the one thing that makes the S3 worth it is it can be expanded to enough space to actually be useful. S3 is currently up to 265hrs of HD (2513 SD hrs)

132hrs per tuner is a good # for me since I assign 1 tuner per station (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) so there is natural inherent :01 :59 overlap protection without resorting to truncating.

What does the 6412 do these days, 15hrs or so shared among 2 tuners? That won't even handle 3 days of recording for me, making it totally useless (for me)

You can upgrade the storage of the 6412 as you well know. There are many threads devoted to it, so I will not bother to repeat all the information that is available in the public domain. Of course, you will have to pay for the hard disk.

On the other hand, the 6412 is bi-directional and the S3 is not. What is going to happen when Comcast starts offering much expanded HD on demand? How about Comcast offering Internet radio (quite a possibility). What then, are you going to toss out these expensive S3??

Tivo makes little sense today when the standards are changing so fast. I believe that soon bi-directional cable cards will be offered. The HDMI standard is changing. I am not sure, but I do not believe that the S3 has HDMI 1.3. Does it?

The Moto 6412 drives me nutty sometimes when it hesitates. Otherwise, the interface is usuable, although not the best it can be. Tivo is definitely the standard and when Tivo software is offered, I will take it.

You can upgrade the storage of the 6412 as you well know. There are many threads devoted to it, so I will not bother to repeat all the information that is available in the public domain. Of course, you will have to pay for the hard disk.


Unless there's been a change I'm not aware of, the most you can get out of the 6412 firmware is 160GB, even with a 300GB HDD all you'll get is 160GB, it's a firmware limitation from what I understand.

Definitely, I'm seriously mulling over getting a second one myself since it would only add about $9 to my monthly bill, including the TiVo subscription. What's holding me back is I don't know when Comcast is going to upgrade this system up here, if I get the 2nd S3 I would like to be able to drop some of the premium channels and maybe Dish or DirecTV altogether and just go with Comcast for those channels. I suspect that I won't see anymore HD until 2008 though, and who knows what will be available by then.

I've read in the past few days that TiVo plans to cut back severely on rebate programs soon so I don't know if this sort of deal will be around much anymore, this current one ends the 16th I believe.

You're going to love that S3, spend another $120 or so and you can triple your record space, which BTW, is about 6-7 times the space of the Moto DVR.

Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it. I went to Costco hoping to pick one up in person but I guess they only sell them online??

Like I said, I haven't had a Tivo since I ditched my Series 1 for a Replay back in 2001. I'm bummed that TivoToGo and MultiRoom is not enabled on the S3, but it will be nice to finally be able to schedule recordings over the web again. What's the best place/forum for Tivo these days? TivoCommunity.com?

Unless there's been a change I'm not aware of, the most you can get out of the 6412 firmware is 160GB, even with a 300GB HDD all you'll get is 160GB, it's a firmware limitation from what I understand.

I was under the same assumption. aretzios, please enlighten us with link.

Do you think KTVU will be showing the A's/Giants series in HD this coming weekend?
The Giants schedule shows which locally-produced games are in HD:
http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/sf/schedule/broadcast.jsp

Friday's game is scheduled to be shown in HD and so is the Sunday game ( on FSNBA-HD) but the Saturday game is not, but that doesn't mean it won't, just that the schedule doesn't show it being in HD.

Laters,
Mikef5
Saturday's game is a FOX game, which have all been in HD this year, so I'd say it's a good bet.

You can upgrade the storage of the 6412 as you well know. There are many threads devoted to it, so I will not bother to repeat all the information that is available in the public domain. Of course, you will have to pay for the hard disk.

On the other hand, the 6412 is bi-directional and the S3 is not. What is going to happen when Comcast starts offering much expanded HD on demand? How about Comcast offering Internet radio (quite a possibility). What then, are you going to toss out these expensive S3??

Tivo makes little sense today when the standards are changing so fast. I believe that soon bi-directional cable cards will be offered. The HDMI standard is changing. I am not sure, but I do not believe that the S3 has HDMI 1.3. Does it?

The Moto 6412 drives me nutty sometimes when it hesitates. Otherwise, the interface is usuable, although not the best it can be. Tivo is definitely the standard and when Tivo software is offered, I will take it.
Yes, please provide some links to upgrading the 6412 drive. It is not easily found (for me)

For me, I could care less about HD on demand. I tend to create my own HD on demand of just shows I care about. It is so much easier to navigate through just the shows you care about than going through a clunky interface to find what I want. That's why I like to have 100+ HD hrs per tuner. At any point in time, 400+hrs of HD on demand can keep me occupied.

Keep in mind I'm not telling you what is useful for you. I'm saying what is useful to me. You seem to be proselytizing your beliefs.

Regarding bi-directional cards, I already have one, as does everyone here who is using CableCARDs. I think the point you were trying to make is bi-directional host.

Regarding HDMI 1.3 it is pointless for a cable device to have HDMI 1.3. The content cannot make use of it. It is a complete separate debate whether HDMI 1.3 is useful so I won't go into it here.

Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it. I went to Costco hoping to pick one up in person but I guess they only sell them online??

Like I said, I haven't had a Tivo since I ditched my Series 1 for a Replay back in 2001. I'm bummed that TivoToGo and MultiRoom is not enabled on the S3, but it will be nice to finally be able to schedule recordings over the web again. What's the best place/forum for Tivo these days? TivoCommunity.com?
Yes, Costco only sells them online. You can however return them at the store or by mail.

tivocommunity.com has the most general posts. There are some other sites more focused on modifying tivo.

Tivo makes little sense today when the standards are changing so fast. I believe that soon bi-directional cable cards will be offered. The HDMI standard is changing. I am not sure, but I do not believe that the S3 has HDMI 1.3. Does it?

The last time I talked to a tech about these cable cards I was informed that the cards that are in use right now are already bi-directional and if you read the specs for them it does say they are bi-directional, it's Tivo's firmware that doesn't make use of it that is the problem. The M-cards that are coming out are multi-stream which means you only need one card for multiple video streams and I believe the S3 doesn't support multi-stream cards either except that they will work with them but only as a single stream card. Still Tivo needs to upgrade their firmware to make them use the cards as bi-directional, I just don't know if they can do that with the pre-existing S3's.

HDMI 1.3, how many products are using that right now, not many and I don't think people should wait around for the next great thing, there's always something new on the horizon. IMHO, this is not a deal killer, not being bi-directional is.

Laters,
Mikef5

I wouldn't bother "upgrading" your Comcast box, unless you want to end up purchasing it ($600?).

You can only upgrade it to 160GB anyway (you can put in a larger drive, but the firmware only recognizes and will format 160GB). You are better off finding out if your local Comcast office has the 3416/6416 in stock, which already has the 160GB drive.

The Giants schedule shows which locally-produced games are in HD:
http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/sf/schedule/broadcast.jsp


Saturday's game is a FOX game, which have all been in HD this year, so I'd say it's a good bet.Unless it's pre-empted by the Pirates-Yankees game.
Or the Astros-White Sox.
Or the Red Sox-Diamond Backs
Or the Blue Jays-Dodgers....
Or the Angles-Cardinals......
Or the Cubs-Braves..... wait.. what? :confused:

The M-cards that are coming out are multi-stream which means you only need one card for multiple video streams and I believe the S3 doesn't support multi-stream cards either except that they will work with them but only as a single stream card. Still Tivo needs to upgrade their firmware to make them use the cards as bi-directional, I just don't know if they can do that with the pre-existing S3's.
When S3s first came out the claim was that the S3 hardware was M-card ready and once M-cards came out, you could use 1 M-card instead of 2 S-cards.

TiVoPony clarified this to say the hardware was M-card ready, but there was no certification available for M-card in a UDCP (as opposed to bi-directional host) device thus the M-card would only work in S-stream mode.

The implication was that at some point in the future after certification a single M-card could work in M-stream mode with the existing hardware, but I don't think any explicit promises were made.

I did find this thread about upgrading the 6412 drive:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=496586

It confirms what keenan and walk and others have said. No matter what drive you use, the firmware limits the upgrade to 160GB. Also it is claimed the phase3 boxes have more extensive tamper detection:

The new Phase 3 64xx & all of the 34xx series have a device inside that keeps track of the number of times the lid has been removed. There is also a Sticker on both sides of the Frame, it has to be cut to open the cover, and if the cable company finds this cut, they will charge your credit card the full price of the unit.

Also in the US, you must rent them from the MSO, as the STB are not available to the end user for purchase. Comcast WILL NOT add a Moto DVR STB to there system that was not rented from them.

As far as the HDD, the system will format it once it is installed.

The files will only be usable on that STB, as it is encoded with the STB and HDD seriel numbers. You will not be able to take the HDD and play it in another STB or on any PC.

They are working on the DRM code to allow external HDD to be added, but once again. the same rules will apply.

I can't figure out why it's such a chore to convert the internal encryption to E-SATA drives.
I mean they are both SATA drives, one is just internal. If they can make it so the files there are encrypted and cannot be played back on any other unit, they certainly can do the same for externals can they not??

When S3s first came out the claim was that the S3 hardware was M-card ready and once M-cards came out, you could use 1 M-card instead of 2 S-cards.

TiVoPony clarified this to say the hardware was M-card ready, but there was no certification available for M-card in a UDCP (as opposed to bi-directional host) device thus the M-card would only work in S-stream mode.

The implication was that at some point in the future after certification a single M-card could work in M-stream mode with the existing hardware, but I don't think any explicit promises were made.
And that's were the problems is, way to vague to base any informed buying decision on. That's why I was hoping to find more info on the new Tivo ( Tivo-Lite ) that's rumored to be coming out. If it will be bi-directional and make use of the M-card then the rumored $400 price would be well worth it and I'd buy it in a micro. The problem is finding reliable information ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I can't figure out why it's such a chore to convert the internal encryption to E-SATA drives.
I mean they are both SATA drives, one is just internal. If they can make it so the files there are encrypted and cannot be played back on any other unit, they certainly can do the same for externals can they not??
I would think the same. Some people have theorized the PVR (from the cable company's point of view) is not intended to compete with VOD, which it might if the # hrs increased significantly.

I can't figure out why it's such a chore to convert the internal encryption to E-SATA drives.
I mean they are both SATA drives, one is just internal. If they can make it so the files there are encrypted and cannot be played back on any other unit, they certainly can do the same for externals can they not??

I agree. I remember hearing a while back there was a problem with the Moto firmware and someone said (was it scanpa??) it would be fixed by this summer. That was a while ago though.

Definitely, I'm seriously mulling over getting a second one myself since it would only add about $9 to my monthly bill, including the TiVo subscription. What's holding me back is I don't know when Comcast is going to upgrade this system up here, if I get the 2nd S3 I would like to be able to drop some of the premium channels and maybe Dish or DirecTV altogether and just go with Comcast for those channels. I suspect that I won't see anymore HD until 2008 though, and who knows what will be available by then.

I've read in the past few days that TiVo plans to cut back severely on rebate programs soon so I don't know if this sort of deal will be around much anymore, this current one ends the 16th I believe.

You're going to love that S3, spend another $120 or so and you can triple your record space, which BTW, is about 6-7 times the space of the Moto DVR.How did you figure only $9/mo extra? The best I can figure is $17/mo as follows: $6.95 TiVo service ($12.95, 3 yrs, less $6 MSD), $6.99 add'l digital outlet fee, $3 (2 cablecards).

Yes, Costco only sells them online. You can however return them at the store or by mail.

tivocommunity.com has the most general posts. There are some other sites more focused on modifying tivo.
As far as best price, I'm not sure about the TiVoCommunity Store, but with Amazon I don't think Californians pay any sales tax so that's something to consider. I haven't narrowed down the best deal yet, but I think online, somewhere, will get the best price.

Regarding HDMI 1.3 it is pointless for a cable device to have HDMI 1.3. The content cannot make use of it. It is a complete separate debate whether HDMI 1.3 is useful so I won't go into it here.
Excellent point, as far as I know, there is no broadcast or cable TV material now or even in the near future that could make any use of HDMI 1.3 features, HDMI 1.1 should work just fine for years to come.

I would think the same. Some people have theorized the PVR (from the cable company's point of view) is not intended to compete with VOD, which it might if the # hrs increased significantly.

The PVR will never conflict with the money-making aspect of VOD. In fact, expanded storage will reduce the need by the cable company to provide a lot of free VOD. Regarding the Moto 6412, it is true enough that the basic storage can be doubled to 160 GB which is far too much for me. I believe that the firmware is supposed to be updated during the end of 2007 to allow for the addition of external drives.

However, Motorola already is pushing to the cable companies a different machine that will allow a variety of other inputs, remote programming and multi-room viewing. As U-verse and FiOS are already offering these capabilities, I think that Comcast and other cable companies will go that way soon.

My guess is that the 2nd generation of the Moto boxes will be far better than the current one and they will sport improvements in functionality and interface. Again, my guess is that they will be available sooner rather than later. If you figure in the price of a Tivo subscription, these boxes are essentially free, to they are $500 cheaper than the S3.

Users buying the S3s are actually hurting Tivo. Tivo should follow the the gaming console or printer manufacturers who sell the hardware for peanuts and make money from games or cartridges. If Tivo gives a dual-HD tuner bi-directional box for $100, then it will accrue a huge user base and with these boxes at homes, it can start selling other services (iTunes through a Tivo box??). Unfortunately, this company is just too dumb!

How did you figure only $9/mo extra? The best I can figure is $17/mo as follows: $6.95 TiVo service ($12.95, 3 yrs, less $6 MSD), $6.99 add'l digital outlet fee, $3 (2 cablecards).
Yes, I forgot about the outlet fee, but I thought even with the second S3 the CC pricing would still be one "free" with the second one being $1.50? Is that not correct, since it's still a single device usage?

And that's were the problems is, way to vague to base any informed buying decision on. That's why I was hoping to find more info on the new Tivo ( Tivo-Lite ) that's rumored to be coming out. If it will be bi-directional and make use of the M-card then the rumored $400 price would be well worth it and I'd buy it in a micro. The problem is finding reliable information ;)

Laters,
Mikef5
It's sort of a Catch 22 situation, do you get the S3 now for a great price, knowing that TiVo is cutting back on rebate type pricing, or do you wait for the Lite model, not even knowing what features it may have?

You have to figure that when/if the Lite model comes out it's going to priced significantly lower than the S3, in other words, if it's priced in the $300-400 range I can't imagine there'll be any deals for the S3 in the same price range as it is now.

Yes, I forgot about the outlet fee, but I thought even with the second S3 the CC pricing would still be one "free" with the second one being $1.50? Is that not correct, since it's still a single device usage?

My bill this month said the price for the 2 cablecards has increased to $1.79.

Yes, I forgot about the outlet fee, but I thought even with the second S3 the CC pricing would still be one "free" with the second one being $1.50? Is that not correct, since it's still a single device usage?Not sure if they only give one CC on the account free or the 2nd CC on each TiVo free.

Not sure if they only give one CC on the account free or the 2nd CC on each TiVo free.

The 1st CableCard for the second TiVo should be covered by the additional outlet charge.

The 1st CableCard for the second TiVo should be covered by the additional outlet charge.
That seems logical.

Anyone else seen their CC charge go up to $1.79 as cstar's has?

Regarding the Moto 6412, it is true enough that the basic storage can be doubled to 160 GB which is far too much for me.
Okay, this statement explains a lot about your views on the S3, you appear to be simply not a PVR person as there's no way by any stretch of the imagination that 15 hrs of HD recording space can be called "far too much" by anyone who time-shifts most of their TV viewing.

For anyone who is an avid TV viewer(of course we all should go outside more often :p ) there is no comparison between the S3 and the 6412, they're really in two separate leagues.

The PVR will never conflict with the money-making aspect of VOD. In fact, expanded storage will reduce the need by the cable company to provide a lot of free VOD.
Again you are welcome to your opinion, but for me, I have a limited amount of time per week I watch TV. If I spend that time watching my backlog of recorded shows, I'm not spending that time purchasing VOD content. I know some people out there who just must watch a movie and will either rent it, buy it, or VOD it, but for me, I'm happy viewing any content that I find interesting so as long as I have a backlog, I'll end up watching that instead of VOD.

As far as best price, I'm not sure about the TiVoCommunity Store, but with Amazon I don't think Californians pay any sales tax so that's something to consider. I haven't narrowed down the best deal yet, but I think online, somewhere, will get the best price.
TCS and Amazon have the best price right now considering they don't charge tax. Costco has the standard Costco advantages, but you pay tax.

People were hoping for 25% amazon coupon from amex wishlist, but looks like no such luck for spring wishlist. In fact the whole wishlist thing seems to have gone downhill this time around.

TCS and Amazon have the best price right now considering they don't charge tax. Costco has the standard Costco advantages, but you pay tax.

People were hoping for 25% amazon coupon from amex wishlist, but looks like no such luck for spring wishlist. In fact the whole wishlist thing seems to have gone downhill this time around.
With Costco you wouldn't even have to bother with an extended warranty, I'm guessing that's the advantage you mean? Most of those warranties will be more than the tax so that's something to consider. When I got my S3 from BB I lucked out and only paid the standard TiVo warranty cost, they later corrected that and starting charging almost twice IIRC.

Again you are welcome to your opinion, but for me, I have a limited amount of time per week I watch TV. If I spend that time watching my backlog of recorded shows, I'm not spending that time purchasing VOD content. I know some people out there who just must watch a movie and will either rent it, buy it, or VOD it, but for me, I'm happy viewing any content that I find interesting so as long as I have a backlog, I'll end up watching that instead of VOD.

I agree that it is a matter of evaluation. Paid VOD can only work if consumers want to see the latest movies instead of waiting for the DVD or ordering the DVD. As it is, VOD offers a lot of free content as well.

Okay, this statement explains a lot about your views on the S3, you appear to be simply not a PVR person as there's no way by any stretch of the imagination that 15 hrs of HD recording space can be called "far too much" by anyone who time-shifts most of their TV viewing.

For anyone who is an avid TV viewer(of course we all should go outside more often :p ) there is no comparison between the S3 and the 6412, they're really in two separate leagues.

Well, I not being a "PVR" person have owned a Tivo essentially since its introduction!! I still have the box somewhere in my garage. My feeling is that the S3 is bad for Tivo and bad for consumers. However, if you feel that it if you indeed massively record, then the S3, however bad as a value proposition, is your only solution.

I find the PQ on the present A's game,on Channel 720 (FSNHD), to be extremely jerky. It seems like it's skipping frames. Do others see it this way?

I find the PQ on the present A's game,on Channel 720 (FSNHD), to be extremely jerky. It seems like it's skipping frames. Do others see it this way?
Pictures fine down here in the ghetto's. Have you tried swapping tuners ?? You might have one of your tuners going bad. Also, check your connections and your splitters if you have them installed, could be loose connections or signal strength being to low because of the drops across your splitters.

Laters,
Mikef5

Pictures fine down here in the ghetto's. Have you tried swapping tuners ?? You might have one of your tuners going bad. Also, check your connections and your splitters if you have them installed, could be loose connections or signal strength being to low because of the drops across your splitters.

Laters,
Mikef5

Nope, swapping tuners has no effect. The jerkiness is most obvious on following the pitched ball: it seems like one is seeing the ball in a stroboscope, i.e., only at about every 3 ft or so of its flight.

Nope, swapping tuners has no effect. The jerkiness is most obvious on following the pitched ball: it seems like one is seeing the ball in a stroboscope, i.e., only at about every 3 ft or so of its flight.
Do you have splitters in your line ?? Try running the cable directly to the box with no splitters in the line and hook the box to the Tv ( HDMI/Component it doesn't matter) and see if you still have the problem. If you do you need to have a tech check your line and signal strength. Is this the only channel that you see this on ??

Laters,
Mikef5

I've been seeing problems on this channel for a few weeks now (as well as KICU). For some reason, during the 7th or 8th inning (and sometimes the 9th), the TV gets distorted and makes it look like the A's have blown another lead. I know this can't be real so it must be the signal.

I've been seeing problems on this channel for a few weeks now (as well as KICU). For some reason, during the 7th or 8th inning (and sometimes the 9th), the TV gets distorted and makes it look like the A's have blown another lead. I know this can't be real so it must be the signal.
It definitely can't be real, only the Giants blow big leads :p

Laters,
Mikef5

Well, I not being a "PVR" person have owned a Tivo essentially since its introduction!! I still have the box somewhere in my garage. My feeling is that the S3 is bad for Tivo and bad for consumers. However, if you feel that it if you indeed massively record, then the S3, however bad as a value proposition, is your only solution.

S3 allows me to have a HD DVR without paying Comcast tons of money for contents I don't watch. The difference is about $60/month ($16.77 vs. $76.40), which can be used to pay for the TiVo hardware and service. Good for TiVo, and good for me.

S3 allows me to have a HD DVR without paying Comcast tons of money for contents I don't watch. The difference is about $60/month ($16.77 vs. $76.40), which can be used to pay for the TiVo hardware and service. Good for TiVo, and good for me.
Absolutely, that was probably the major reason why I went with the S3, I got tired of paying $75 a month for stuff I didn't want just to be able to record HD.

This is something people often overlook when comparing costs, that Comcast DVR costs not $9.95 or $11.95(whatever it is now) per month, but $11.95 plus a subscription to Expanded Basic, another $25-30 minimum, and if I remember correctly you have to have Digital Classic as well for another $9.95, for a total DVR cost per month of around $45. That's fine for folks who watch those channels, but for the HD viewer it's just money thrown away.

S3 allows me to have a HD DVR without paying Comcast tons of money for contents I don't watch. The difference is about $60/month ($16.77 vs. $76.40), which can be used to pay for the TiVo hardware and service. Good for TiVo, and good for me.

I have to ask for some clarification here. I think that content is quite independent of what DVR you have. You have a choice of programming and you can select specific groups of digital service (silver, gold, platinum) with some elaborations. You do not have to purchase and VOD movie if you do not want to. The cost of a DVR plus HD is, I believe, about $10, and you pay this and more for your Tivo subscripiton. So, your justification for S3 as a money saving vehicle does not seem to hold water. I understand your need to record a lot of shows, but this is a separate argument.

I have to ask for some clarification here. I think that content is quite independent of what DVR you have. You have a choice of programming and you can select specific groups of digital service (silver, gold, platinum) with some elaborations. You do not have to purchase and VOD movie if you do not want to. The cost of a DVR plus HD is, I believe, about $10, and you pay this and more for your Tivo subscripiton. So, your justification for S3 as a money saving vehicle does not seem to hold water. I understand your need to record a lot of shows, but this is a separate argument.

You obviously didn't read Keenan's reply right above yours. There is plenty of clarification there. Do you have an agenda, artezios?

artezios, in other words, what is the least do you think you need pay comcast to get all HD channels and DVR?

With Tivo it is : Limited Basic + Digital Classic : around $26 + Tivo cost.
For Comcast DVR, I think is is : Standard Cable + Digical Classic : around $65 + DVR Cost ($12).

Do you have splitters in your line ?? Try running the cable directly to the box with no splitters in the line and hook the box to the Tv ( HDMI/Component it doesn't matter) and see if you still have the problem. If you do you need to have a tech check your line and signal strength. Is this the only channel that you see this on ??

Laters,
Mikef5

Mike, thanks for the suggestions. No, no splitters, and yes, this is the only channel on which I observed this problem; ESPN, and ESPN2, with their baseball, etc., have never shown it. I've assumed that it was just an overly compressed feed on the game, so that's why I was curious if other people also noticed it.

I have a Panasonic plasma TV that has a CableCARD slot, and I am getting a TiVo S3 (and will be removing my existing cable box as I have no further need for it). In addition to the two CableCARDs for the TiVo, I am considering getting a third one for the TV itself.

Does anyone else have a third CableCARD from Comcast, and if so, what do you pay for the three cards? (The rate card says that a "second" CableCARD is $1.50 per month, but does not mention the cost of additional ones.)

-- Don

Mike, thanks for the suggestions. No, no splitters, and yes, this is the only channel on which I observed this problem; ESPN, and ESPN2, with their baseball, etc., have never shown it. I've assumed that it was just an overly compressed feed on the game, so that's why I was curious if other people also noticed it.
I wouldn't think that it's an over compression of the signal especially that channel. In case you didn't know Comcast just bought FSNBA and I would doubt that they would do that to their own channel ;) .

Do you have other Tv's or just the one ?? If more than one tv, does it appear on both of them. If only one tv, do you have access to another tv to see if the problem is with the tv or not. What kind of tv is it, plasma, dlp or lcd ?? Some lcd's have a problem with response time with fast action pictures. Try setting the Motorola box to 720p and see if that helps, 1080i on some sets is a problem especially on older sets.

Laters,
Mikef5

Do you have other Tv's or just the one ?? If more than one tv, does it appear on both of them. If only one tv, do you have access to another tv to see if the problem is with the tv or not. What kind of tv is it, plasma, dlp or lcd ?? Some lcd's have a problem with response time with fast action pictures. Try setting the Motorola box to 720p and see if that helps, 1080i on some sets is a problem especially on older sets.

Laters,
Mikef5

Very good suggestion! I do have a dlp rptv up in the bedroom. Next time I see the problem I will run up anc check it out on it.

Turn the box off, hit MENU, change the output to 720p, then back to 1080i (assume you have it set to 1080i, if not then change it to 1080i). That should fix the "skipping frames" problem. I get it occasionally too.

I have a Panasonic plasma TV that has a CableCARD slot, and I am getting a TiVo S3 (and will be removing my existing cable box as I have no further need for it). In addition to the two CableCARDs for the TiVo, I am considering getting a third one for the TV itself.

Does anyone else have a third CableCARD from Comcast, and if so, what do you pay for the three cards? (The rate card says that a "second" CableCARD is $1.50 per month, but does not mention the cost of additional ones.)

-- Don
I believe the third card will cost you $6.95 a month charged as an Additional Digital Outlet. So you'd be paying $1.50 for the S3 and $6.95 for the Panny.

Anyone else seen their CC charge go up to $1.79 as cstar's has?
I called Comcast this morning, and was told the "second CableCARD fee" is now $1.79.

-- Don

Oh, yeah, also the "HDTV additional service" is now $7 instead of $5.

I think that content is quite independent of what DVR you have.

No, it's not. There is a minimum subscription level before Comcast lets you rent a DVR. If you don't believe us, call Comcast yourself.

artezios, in other words, what is the least do you think you need pay comcast to get all HD channels and DVR?

With Tivo it is : Limited Basic + Digital Classic : around $26 + Tivo cost.
For Comcast DVR, I think is is : Standard Cable + Digical Classic : around $65 + DVR Cost ($12).

Maybe we misunderstand each other but how can you get all HD channels with Limited Basic + Digital Classic? What channels are you actually getting?

All of the non-premium HD channels are include in digital classic.

In Fremont, for the last few nights, we've been getting quite a few glitches with KTVU. Sound disappears, then comes back. Or video stops (freezes) but sound continues, later resyncs. ("later" meaning within 3-10 seconds, generally). Happened in both HD (702) or SD (2). This is to a 3416, so all digital. I didn't switch to "regular" TV reception to see if that was affected as well.

I noticed in mostly during the House rerun last night. About half way thru, the HD channel switched to SD (boxed) then back after a few seconds, and some things seemed improved after that. Equipment problems?

Doesn't seem to be a strength issue, as we don't see issues on other channels (though maybe sometimes on channel 6, which is the same bunch o'folks).

Anyone else?

In Fremont, for the last few nights, we've been getting quite a few glitches with KTVU. Sound disappears, then comes back. Or video stops (freezes) but sound continues, later resyncs. ("later" meaning within 3-10 seconds, generally). Happened in both HD (702) or SD (2). This is to a 3416, so all digital. I didn't switch to "regular" TV reception to see if that was affected as well.

I noticed in mostly during the House rerun last night. About half way thru, the HD channel switched to SD (boxed) then back after a few seconds, and some things seemed improved after that. Equipment problems?

Doesn't seem to be a strength issue, as we don't see issues on other channels (though maybe sometimes on channel 6, which is the same bunch o'folks).

Anyone else?
I saw exactly the same thing while watching House. What I did was switch from the Motorola box to my LG box and used the OTA tuner and it was happening with the OTA signal also so to me that seems to be a channel problem and not a Comcast problem. It did clear up later in the program.

Laters,
Mikef5

For those of you that would like to hear what Comcast has planned ( generally speaking ) for the future, here is a link to the Investors Day meeting that was held in May. It's very long but it does have the pdf's ( slideshow ) and mp3's so you can follow long with the slideshow. Remember they were speaking to their investors so a grain of salt is needed in some parts. They do speak of VOD and Non Linear Programing ( think SDV ). As a side note Time Warner has announced that they plan on having 50% of their system using Switched Video by the end of 2007. I can only think that Comcast can't be to far behind that, maybe not as soon but it is going to come.

Here's the link http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=118591&p=irol-InvestorDay
Here's the link to the Time Warner announcement
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6449034.html?rssid=196

Laters,
Mikef5

Ah, good. I try to avoid having them come fix things -- it always takes 3 trips: 1 to fix the original problem, and 2 more to fix the problems introduced by trip #1...

Anybody else getting a lot of audio break-ups during Wednesday's Giants FSN HD game?

But at least I'm not getting the jerky video that I got on this channel the last time.

But at least I'm not getting the jerky video that I got on this channel the last time.
But you did get audio break-ups?
For the 1st half of last night's game, I was getting them every few minutes (although they weren't horrible). I didn't notice as many audio break-ups during the last couple innings.

I'm a newby to HD - just recently bought and set up a Toshiba 37hl67 which I'm mostly loving so far. I have Comcast HD in Sunnyvale.

My only big complaint and letdown was last weekend, when I watched Matrix Revolutions on HBO HD. The problem was pixels on the screen that couldn't seem to keep up with the action in the movie, especially during times of fast action with high contrast (bright lasers/light flashes on an otherwise dark background, etc). The screen would appear to go pixelated and freeze up, then catch up when the scene shifted. At times it was really annoying.

From what I'm reading there could be many reasons for this to occur, but thought I'd ask around here to see if anyone has ever noticed anything similar while watching HD on cable (and potential solutions).

I'm planning to rent the DVD and will see if that experience is any better.

Thanks for the help.

What you are describing sounds like macroblocking, yes there will be some of that. Some channels are better than others. HBO isn't very good. They constrain the bit-rate at some point. But even full bit-rate on cable is limited to 19mbps (peak), with MPEG2, 1080i, you will get some macroblocking occasionally.

But you did get audio break-ups?
For the 1st half of last night's game, I was getting them every few minutes (although they weren't horrible). I didn't notice as many audio break-ups during the last couple innings.No the game last night came thru loud and clear the entire time.

But TNT-HD during "Las Vegas" was horrible, tons of breakup and skipping. Unwatchable. The other channels were fine and the signal level was good, so it must have been a problem with the source.

I'm a newby to HD - just recently bought and set up a Toshiba 37hl67 which I'm mostly loving so far. I have Comcast HD in Sunnyvale.

My only big complaint and letdown was last weekend, when I watched Matrix Revolutions on HBO HD. The problem was pixels on the screen that couldn't seem to keep up with the action in the movie, especially during times of fast action with high contrast (bright lasers/light flashes on an otherwise dark background, etc). The screen would appear to go pixelated and freeze up, then catch up when the scene shifted. At times it was really annoying.

From what I'm reading there could be many reasons for this to occur, but thought I'd ask around here to see if anyone has ever noticed anything similar while watching HD on cable (and potential solutions).

I'm planning to rent the DVD and will see if that experience is any better.

Thanks for the help.

HBOHD is bandwidth starved, its not comcast's fault since its only passing thru the signal. what you are experiencing is called macroblocking... to get a good 1080i picture i believe the optimal bandwidth is around 19mbps but HBO sends out their signal around 9-11mbps. There was a thread in the programming forum about this once, but that was a least half a year ago.

luckily everything else on comcast's lineup (other than premium channels) seems to pass-through nicely without much macroblocking.

you need to watch the matrix on HDDVD. spectacular..... just stunning.

But you did get audio break-ups?
For the 1st half of last night's game, I was getting them every few minutes (although they weren't horrible). I didn't notice as many audio break-ups during the last couple innings.

i always get periodic audio drop outs on FSN BA games, sometimes more frequently than other times. annoying... yes... de-sensitized... yes.

HBOHD is bandwidth starved, its not comcast's fault since its only passing thru the signal. what you are experiencing is called macroblocking... to get a good 1080i picture i believe the optimal bandwidth is around 19mbps but HBO sends out their signal around 9-11mbps. There was a thread in the programming forum about this once, but that was a least half a year ago.

luckily everything else on comcast's lineup (other than premium channels) seems to pass-through nicely without much macroblocking.

you need to watch the matrix on HDDVD. spectacular..... just stunning.


interesting comment. i'm on dish awaiting 1000mhz upgrade in los gatos. currently hbo on dish is my best quality hd broadcast. don't know the bit rate of hbo on dish, but king kong and star war movies i've saved on my dvr are high quality hd.

If they are letterbox, that saves some bandwidth (2.35:1 OAR that is). I dropped HBO over a year ago, but I definitely remember nasty macroblocking on many movies, especially Star Wars Ep2, but they were showing it cropped to full-screen back then.

The max bit rate for ATSC is 19mbps. Some channels use all of it, others compress the signal either to use sub-channels (KQED) or to save on satellite transmission costs (HBO).

If they are letterbox, that saves some bandwidth (2.35:1 OAR that is). I dropped HBO over a year ago, but I definitely remember nasty macroblocking on many movies, especially Star Wars Ep2, but they were showing it cropped to full-screen back then.

The max bit rate for ATSC is 19mbps. Some channels use all of it, others compress the signal either to use sub-channels (KQED) or to save on satellite transmission costs (HBO).

that's why i dropped HBO as well in favor of getting an HDDVD player. nothing ruins the movie experience than those BIG PIXELS.

I'm a newby to HD - just recently bought and set up a Toshiba 37hl67 which I'm mostly loving so far. I have Comcast HD in Sunnyvale.

My only big complaint and letdown was last weekend, when I watched Matrix Revolutions on HBO HD. The problem was pixels on the screen that couldn't seem to keep up with the action in the movie, especially during times of fast action with high contrast (bright lasers/light flashes on an otherwise dark background, etc). The screen would appear to go pixelated and freeze up, then catch up when the scene shifted. At times it was really annoying.

From what I'm reading there could be many reasons for this to occur, but thought I'd ask around here to see if anyone has ever noticed anything similar while watching HD on cable (and potential solutions).

I'm planning to rent the DVD and will see if that experience is any better.

Thanks for the help.

I live in San Ramon and I did not have this problem with any of the movies that I have watched on HBOHD. The only time I remember in which pixelation was an issue was the Olympics in 2004 (NBC feed).

But at least I'm not getting the jerky video that I got on this channel the last time.

Could be that everyone has their own unique problems with FSNBA-HD depending on signal/device receiving signal/sunspots/whatever, but I observed what appeared to be dropped frames on the RedSox-A's broadcast a couple of nights ago. (The game where Chavez ended it with the walkoff HR in extras, IIRC.) The problem was confined to FSNBA-HD only, and when I went into the service menu of my Motorola 6412 it did NOT state that the box had been dropping frames (error counts were 0). I got the same result on both tuners, too. The "fix" was a hard reset by unpliugging the unit from the wall. Of course, it takes an eternity to rebuild the guide data--why they heck does guide data not live on the hard disk--but this resolved the problem. It may be this is another solution similar to the one suggested here of going into the options menu (Power off immediate push of menu) and toggling the HD output from 1080i to 720p, powering off, powering on, entering the menu and then resetting to 1080i). Which, if it works, is a more graceful solutioin than mine.

So, what's the newest HD-DVR they have in stock in the SJ area? Is the 3416 still their top of the line right now? Or, is the Multi-room model (DCH?) on its way any day?

Also, has anybody seen the emails to the box from Comcast offering a DVR free for a year? Oddly, it came with a 2nd email offering a DVR for $1/mo for a year. Hmmm. Which should I choose? Free? Or, $1?

But, which DVR is it, and are existing DVR customers eligible?

Well hooked up the cable to a brand new Samsung LN T4065F.

On the setup, they let you auto-scan the cable and digital cable channels. But you select from "Standard," "HRC" and "IRC" channels. The latter two don't find any of the digital or HD channels but the Standard finds a bunch and also some music channels (audio but no picture).

Finds the OTA HD channels, 2-1, 4-2, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 11-2.

No sign of ESPN HD or Discovery HD or InHD at all.

But it finds a whole bunch of what appears to be Digital Cable channels, all 480i versions of channels like CNN, CSPAN and some others scattered all over the place. They left Discovery SD unscrambled but the TV couldn't find Discovery HD on a scan.

FX is on a 78 sub channel but there is no audio for it or for A&E and a few others.

CW HD is 92-2, at least the Samsung is indicating a 1080i signal.

So, what's the newest HD-DVR they have in stock in the SJ area? Is the 3416 still their top of the line right now? Or, is the Multi-room model (DCH?) on its way any day?

Also, has anybody seen the emails to the box from Comcast offering a DVR free for a year? Oddly, it came with a 2nd email offering a DVR for $1/mo for a year. Hmmm. Which should I choose? Free? Or, $1?

But, which DVR is it, and are existing DVR customers eligible?

I think that most, the Moto 6412 is what is on offer. Motorola keeps talking about the multiroom, networked cable boxes with a new improved interface but there is no indication, as far as I know, that Comcast has committed in offering these.

I thought the 3416 was the latest model as a few months ago. Would they offer a lower model?

I thought the 3416 was the latest model as a few months ago. Would they offer a lower model?

The 34xx are only for ADS areas so it is possible to get a 64xx if you're not in an upgraded area. As for the xx12 vs. xx16, unless you specifically ask for the xx16 (the one with the larger hard drive), it's totally up in the air as to what you may get. I'm sure most Comcast pay centers have a bunch of both and it just depends on what they bend over and reach for.

I'm in a digital area, so the 34xx series is my thing. (I have a 3412). I was just wondering if there's anything newer I could ask for when I bring my 3412 in for exchange. At the very least, I'm gonna shoot for a 3416. But, if there's something better, I'll shoot for that.

I'm also wondering how this "free DVR for a year" promo is gonna work for existing customers who want a 2nd DVR. Do they still charge the add'l outlet fee? If not, then it's worth it. But, if there's still a $6.95 fee for a jack that's already there and wired, that's just ********, and not worth it despite the waived DVR fee.

I think that most, the Moto 6412 is what is on offer. Motorola keeps talking about the multiroom, networked cable boxes with a new improved interface but there is no indication, as far as I know, that Comcast has committed in offering these.
Multi-room is already built into the boxes and the last I heard the main problem was in the software and how to implement parental control for the system and I'm sure another problem is the July dead line for the new boxes with cable cards, I'd bet they want to test them to insure it works with them as well.

The new software ( Tivo interface ) is due to roll out sometime in August on the east coast ( Boston was the area mentioned in the announcement )and make it's way here when they are sure it works back east.

All this has to work together, the new Tivo software, the new boxes and the multi-room and it takes time to do the testing properly. If they release it prematurely with a lot of bugs still in it I'm sure Comcast would never hear the end of it.

Laters,
Mikef5

Multi-room is built in to the existing 64/34xx boxes? I thought it was a new series with a different prefix.

Also, I wasn't aware that the existing boxes even had cable-card capability, as it sounds like you are saying in your post.

Multi-room is built in to the existing 64/34xx boxes? I thought it was a new series with a different prefix.

Also, I wasn't aware that the existing boxes even had cable-card capability, as it sounds like you are saying in your post.
The existing boxes have multi-room built into them already, Go to the diagnostic menu for the box and you'll see it's there. I believe it's d17.

The existing boxes don't have cable cards, the new DCH boxes do and they have multi-room built into them also. I don't know how I confused you but what I was trying to say was that all of these boxes need to be tested for multi-room and with the new Tivo software. The new DCH boxes are part of this and since they are going to be the standard box and will use cable cards they need to test them also to work just like the existing boxes do. Hope that helps clear things up ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Multi-room functionality requires the "Comcast Central" software at each headend. So until that's upgraded around here, that's a big fat negative on multi-room.

Multi-room functionality requires the "Comcast Central" software at each headend. So until that's upgraded around here, that's a big fat negative on multi-room.
Fender,
Are you sure about that ?? The way I way I understand it "Comcast Central" is part of the new guide ( not the Tivo guide ) and gives you the ability to view multiple channels at once, like picture in picture but has nothing to do with multi-room which is like a network for cable in your home, a master/slave setup where one box interfaces with the other boxes in your home. Here's a link to what I thought Comcast Central was... http://www.comcast.com/newguide/

Laters,
Mikef5

Fender,
Are you sure about that ?? The way I way I understand it "Comcast Central" is part of the new guide ( not the Tivo guide ) and gives you the ability to view multiple channels at once, like picture in picture but has nothing to do with multi-room which is like a network for cable in your home, a master/slave setup where one box interfaces with the other boxes in your home. Here's a link to what I thought Comcast Central was... http://www.comcast.com/newguide/

Laters,
Mikef5

A little birdie told me the headend software that's needed for Comcast Central is the same software that's needed for multi-room viewing. You're probably right -- from the end-user point of view it's two separate things. But from the headend standpoint, I believe the necessary upgrade takes care of both features. If the "little birdie" wants to elaborate further on this in the public forum, he/she can. :)

A little birdie told me the headend software that's needed for Comcast Central is the same software that's needed for multi-room viewing. You're probably right -- from the end-user point of view it's two separate things. But from the headend standpoint, I believe the necessary upgrade takes care of both features. If the "little birdie" wants to elaborate further on this in the public forum, he/she can. :)
That could well be the case, I've just never heard about that before so "little birdie" please enlighten us :p
I've been waiting for this new guide and multi-room for along time so any new info would be appreciated. In case you're interested here's a link to the Comcast Central forum.... http://comcastcentral.lithium.com/

Laters,
Mikef5

The new guide looks nice. But, if the guide data isn't more accurate, it will only be a marginal improvement. I am looking forward to trying the Tivo software, if only to see a more accurate guide. The functionality is almost secondary to me.

Now...Does anybody have any info about this free DVR for a year promo? Thanks.

The new guide looks nice. But, if the guide data isn't more accurate, it will only be a marginal improvement. I am looking forward to trying the Tivo software, if only to see a more accurate guide. The functionality is almost secondary to me.

Now...Does anybody have any info about this free DVR for a year promo? Thanks.
I haven't seen the new Comcast Tivo guide but I really don't think it's going to be just like the real Tivo software more like a Tivo lite guide. I don't know that for a fact but I'm not going to get my hopes up but why would Tivo make a better software package for Comcast to compete with it's own software ??? I think Comcast should just buy out Tivo and use it as it's guide.. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Tivo is known for its guide accuracy, amongst other things. I'm looking forward to that. As for it competing with Comcast's own guide...well...that's their problem. They are the ones who brought Tivo on board. They must have their reasons. Perhaps the marketing value of the Tivo name alone is good enough for them.

Tivo is known for its guide accuracy, amongst other things. I'm looking forward to that. As for it competing with Comcast's own guide...well...that's their problem. They are the ones who brought Tivo on board. They must have their reasons. Perhaps the marketing value of the Tivo name alone is good enough for them.
Gary,
You misunderstood what I was saying " Why would Tivo make a better software package for Comcast". That "Comcast/Tivo" package would compete with Tivo's own standalone package. It would be Tivo software against Tivo (Comcast) software. I wasn't talking about the I-Guide that we use now or even the new I-Guide with "Comcast Centeral" in it, but Tivo on Tivo. It would be to Tivo's advantage to leave out some things in their software they make for Comcast just to let people know that if they like the Comcast/Tivo software that they have a better separate offering of their own. I'm talking about the software that Tivo is writing for Comcast. Sorry if that was confusing.

As far as accuracy, that's a problem with the supplier for Comcast which I believe is Tv-Guide and yes Comcast should get on them to get it corrected. Not being a Tivo owner myself I can't comment on it's accuracy but I'm sure they have problems also, maybe not as bad as Tv Guide seems to have ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I've actually not had that many problems with the iGuide schedules. I remember it was really bad when the DVR first came out, but I can't remember the last time it was incorrect (besides the FSN-HD and Special Events channel).

Tivo competed with itself for all those years with DirecTV. It would be the same thing here.

I've actually not had that many problems with the iGuide schedules. I remember it was really bad when the DVR first came out, but I can't remember the last time it was incorrect (besides the FSN-HD and Special Events channel).
I think a lot of the times that it's incorrect is due to the broadcast station making last minute changes into their schedule and it's too late for them to update the guide. Hopefully, now that Comcast owns FSNBA we'll be seeing a lot more HD for the local teams. Maybe a real 24/7 HD channel, like having a local ESPN-HD for the Bay Area :p ;)
Yes, I'm lobbying for this to happen :D

Laters,
Mikef5

I've had a few problems with Cartoon Network's Adult Swim but to be fair, they are prone to changing their schedule on a whim and with very short notice.

Tivo competed with itself for all those years with DirecTV. It would be the same thing here.
Gary,
All I'm saying is it won't be like having the real Tivo. If people want Tivo they should get Tivo. That's why I said Comcast should just buy out Tivo and use it as their guide software. We'll see when the software gets released in August ( in Boston ). It's for sure it will be better than the I-Guide that we use right now but so will the new I-Guide that's coming.

Laters,
Mikef5

Tivo competed with itself for all those years with DirecTV. It would be the same thing here.

But keep in mind that Tivo made many more enhancements to their own hardware/software then they did with the DirecTivo box. DirecTivo pretty much stayed stagnant on the Series 1 platoform (and that was before DirecTV decided to go with their own DVR).

I think a lot of the times that it's incorrect is due to the broadcast station making last minute changes into their schedule and it's too late for them to update the guide. It's not so much the content or times that have been incorrect, it's the flags, such as "series" or "repeat". I am tired of having to set up a bunch of individual recording events for a series, when I should be able to just set up a single series recording. Or, having a bunch of repeats of an episode recorded when I set it to only record new ones.

But keep in mind that Tivo made many more enhancements to their own hardware/software then they did with the DirecTivo box. DirecTivo pretty much stayed stagnant on the Series 1 platoform (and that was before DirecTV decided to go with their own DVR).And that stagnant Tivo was still better than DirecTV's own DVR software, just as I suspect Comcast Tivo will be to the new improved Comcast i-Guide. (or whatever the new one is called.)

It's not so much the content or times that have been incorrect, it's the flags, such as "series" or "repeat". I am tired of having to set up a bunch of individual recording events for a series, when I should be able to just set up a single series recording. Or, having a bunch of repeats of an episode recorded when I set it to only record new ones.
Gary,
You know I'm also a member of the Tivo Community Forum and I see the same problems with the Tivo that I see with Comcast. People complaining that their recordings are getting screwed up or their series recordings aren't working proberly. If the company that provides the guide data doesn't do it correctly then things will get messed up. It's not Comcast, it's not Directv, it's not Dishs fault but the company that provides the guide data. If the proper flags are not in the provided data then it will be screwed up. Don't know what else to tell you. I like the Tivo interface but even with that if the supplier of their data gives screwed up data even Tivo would not work properly.

Laters,
Mikef5

Ummm. Okey dokey. I was just looking forward to trying it to see if it was more accurate. If not, I might use the improved i-Guide. Not a big deal.

Ummm. Okey dokey. I was just looking forward to trying it to see if it was more accurate. If not, I might use the improved i-Guide. Not a big deal.
Gary,
I'm just trying to point out that we need to put some pressure on the providers of the guide data to make it more accurate.

The only thing stopping me from getting a Tivo S3 is that SDV is coming to cable and Tivo is not able to make use of that. The interface for the Tivo is great ( both my brother and sister have Tivo's ) and I like the look and feel of it. Hopefully, they will be able to make the S3 compatible with SDV without doing a hardware change but with a software update but I don't think that is possible and trust me SDV is coming and a lot sooner than most people think. It makes sense, you regain a lot of bandwidth with minimal upgrades to the head-end, much more cost effective and efficient . So I'm hoping the new Tivo/Comcast software will have most of the features that the real Tivo has but it will have the advantage of being able to be used in a SDV system.
I'm just not going to hold my breath :)

Laters,
Mikef5

Hopefully, they will be able to make the S3 compatible with SDV without doing a hardware change

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5229963&&#post5229963

Could someone please tell me how many HD channels you get on Comcast cable if you don't subscribe to any premium services?

Thanks.

Gary,
I'm just trying to point out that we need to put some pressure on the providers of the guide data to make it more accurate.

The only thing stopping me from getting a Tivo S3 is that SDV is coming to cable and Tivo is not able to make use of that. The interface for the Tivo is great ( both my brother and sister have Tivo's ) and I like the look and feel of it. Hopefully, they will be able to make the S3 compatible with SDV without doing a hardware change but with a software update but I don't think that is possible and trust me SDV is coming and a lot sooner than most people think. It makes sense, you regain a lot of bandwidth with minimal upgrades to the head-end, much more cost effective and efficient . So I'm hoping the new Tivo/Comcast software will have most of the features that the real Tivo has but it will have the advantage of being able to be used in a SDV system.
I'm just not going to hold my breath :)

Laters,
Mikef5

I wouldnt be surprised if the comcast version is limited to comcast media and the S3 allows unbox, tivocast, and whatever they want to provide on the internet.

I heard through the grapevine somewhere that DTV never liked the idea of you using the box for something that wasnt provided by DTV. IE no music, pictures, etc.

I could see comcast limiting this as well.

On the other hand it could also be a tiered pricing structure with basic DVR stuff at price 1 and full Tivo features at price 2 if comcast allows that.

Competition from iTV and DTV will probably define the feature set as well.

Could someone please tell me how many HD channels you get on Comcast cable if you don't subscribe to any premium services?

Could some get permission to edit the first post to this new thread? Hopefully keenan can get it.

Regd the channels it depends on the area but the following is the best case:

With Limited Basic:

702 KTVU Fox HD
703 KNTV - NBC HD
704 KRON HD
705 KPIX - CBS HD
707 KGO - ABC HD
709 KQED - PBS HD
712 KBCW - CW HD

With Digital Classic:

715 NGC - National Geo HD
718 A&E HD
719 Mojo HD (Used to be called INHD)
720 FSN HD (some of live matches)
721 Versus HD (Sports, NHL games)
722 Discovery HD Theater
723 ESPN HD
724 ESPN2 HD
725 Nothing - In the past showed some NFL games
726 TNT HD
727 UHD - Universal HD
728 Music HD (MTV's)

I heard through the grapevine somewhere that DTV never liked the idea of you using the box for something that wasnt provided by DTV. IE no music, pictures, etc.

I can't imagine Comcast even entertaining the idea of any Joe calling their tech support regd some problem with these extra apps. I am sure given an option, Tivo wouldn't want to do that...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5229963&&#post5229963

Great link (to a link). I hope Tivo and the MSO's can come to an amicable solution to SDV w/ current hardware (especially since mine is coming in 2 days :D ). SDV could really open up the flood gates for new services...and not just TV. With the saved bandwidth, we could see Internet speeds comparable to FiOS. It's interesting how they mention potential solution, including an external "dongle" that would enable support for 2-way communication. If I were to have to spend $100 or so on something that would keep my S3 usable in 2 years, it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world. I really don't see Comcast doing a wide-spread rollout of SDV any time before that.

Could some get permission to edit the first post to this new thread? Hopefully keenan can get it.

Regd the channels it depends on the area but the following is the best case:

With Limited Basic:

702 KTVU Fox HD
703 KNTV - NBC HD
704 KRON HD
705 KPIX - CBS HD
707 KGO - ABC HD
709 KQED - PBS HD
712 KBCW - CW HD

With Digital Classic:

715 NGC - National Geo HD
718 A&E HD
719 Mojo HD (Used to be called INHD)
720 FSN HD (some of live matches)
721 Versus HD (Sports, NHL games)
722 Discovery HD Theater
723 ESPN HD
724 ESPN2 HD
725 Nothing - In the past showed some NFL games
726 TNT HD
727 UHD - Universal HD
728 Music HD (MTV's)

If this list is accurate I'll have the first post changed. If folks could look it over and make sure it's correct I'd appreciate it.

We only get 8 of those channels up here in Santa Rosa(the bay area's cable TV history museum). :rolleyes: :D

9. 725 Special Events - Used for NFL-HD Game of the Week, also occasionally used as a spill-over

12. 728 Music HD (combination of HD content from MTV, VH1, and CMT)

You don't get 725-NFL with Digital Classic any more. You did a couple years ago, but now I guess you have to subscribe to the sports package or whatever.

You don't get 725-NFL with Digital Classic any more. You did a couple years ago, but now I guess you have to subscribe to the sports package or whatever.

Good call...forgot about that.

The list as shown, is correct, keenan

Tivo is known for its guide accuracy, amongst other things. I'm looking forward to that. As for it competing with Comcast's own guide...well...that's their problem. They are the ones who brought Tivo on board. They must have their reasons. Perhaps the marketing value of the Tivo name alone is good enough for them.

I really wish Comcast would fix the guide data accuracy in iGuide. My wife and I have noticed that the detailed listing info is often not very good:

- We've often seen a lead actors name missing from the info description and a minor supporting actor listed instead which seems really strange (not to mention making it hard to find that favorite movie some times when you can't remember the movie name but you remember the name of your favorite lead actress).

- Now what is really odd is that our HDTV with builtin TV-guide On-screen seems to always get this correct when I've thought to compare them. This seems really odd when TV-guide supposedly supplies the guide data for both Comcast's iGuide and the TV-guide On-screen. No idea how this could happen.

- At times Comcast's listing info seems like it has been run through a sarcasm filter. My wife really hates this since she is an English major. This seems to be missing from TV-guide On-Screen too so I'm wondering if Comcast really gets the guide data from the same source.

I'm going to be moving to Santa Rosa in July and was wondering if anyone could comment on the quality of Comcast's HD and Internet services. Specifically, what channels are offered, how is the service (low/high bitrates for HD channels?), also what is your internet performance like? Thanks.

I'm going to be moving to Santa Rosa in July and was wondering if anyone could comment on the quality of Comcast's HD and Internet services. Specifically, what channels are offered, how is the service (low/high bitrates for HD channels?), also what is your internet performance like? Thanks.
Comcast in Santa Rosa is pitiful. We only get a few of the HD channels: KTVU, KNTV, KPIX, KGO, KQED, FSN, Discovery, and ESPN (plus a few premiums). We're also missing OnDemand and quite a few SD channels.

I can't comment on the internet, but I'd recommend you opt for satellite and DSL (Sonic.net is local and consistently rated #1 or #2 in the country). Skip Comcast.

Comcast in Santa Rosa is pitiful. We only get a few of the HD channels: KTVU, KNTV, KPIX, KGO, KQED, FSN, Discovery, and ESPN (plus a few premiums). We're also missing OnDemand and quite a few SD channels.

I can't comment on the internet, but I'd recommend you opt for satellite and DSL (Sonic.net is local and consistently rated #1 or #2 in the country). Skip Comcast.

What quality of DSL can you get in Santa Rosa? Is U-Verse an option for you guys?

What quality of DSL can you get in Santa Rosa? Is U-Verse an option for you guys?
No U-Verse yet. I get anywhere around 4mb/s to 5mb/s download speed and around 400kb to 650kb upload most of the time. The cost currently for me just went up to $35 a month as my $25/month deal just ran out. Those above speeds are their Elite DSL service, pretty sure that's what it's called.

As far as reliability, I can only remember maybe 2, at most 3, outages in the last 6-7 yrs.

Just got a mailer from Comcast today with an offer to trade in my old DCT2000 for an all digital box, presumably a DCT700. If I did that, they would give me a $10 credit on my next bill and waive my monthly box fee for the next 12 months. I was thinking about it until I went to Motorolas website and checked out the DCT700. What a piece of junk that thing is. No front panel time or channel indicator, not even S-video output. A huge step backwards in my opinion. I think I'll pass on this offer and keep my DCT2000. I wonder how long they'll let me keep it.

The channel number and time are an info button away, not a big deal to me. The S-video on the other hand is huge.

What quality of DSL can you get in Santa Rosa? Is U-Verse an option for you guys?
Regarding U-verse, things are looking pretty dim for that service. Below is from the U-Verse forum. Check out those target dates....of course, it will probably be that long before we here in Santa Rosa see any more HD channels... :rolleyes:

http://www.uverseusers.com/images/stories/Slide16.JPG

http://www.uverseusers.com/content/view/138/1/
UverseUsers.com - (Disappointing) Notes from AT&T Investor Webcast

In Santa Rosa, Sonic.net has announced formation of their own telco so that they can offer higher speed DSL without depending on AT&T, who don't want to play nice and share, anyway. On their front page is a blurb pointing to press articles about "products at maximum rates of 24Mbps to 100Mbps using ADSL2+ and VDSL2 technologies."

I'm not sure what the timeline is supposed to be.

The easy short term answer is to move near, but not into Santa Rosa. The 'burbs all have much better Comcast than SR itself.

I
The easy short term answer is to move near, but not into Santa Rosa. The 'burbs all have much better Comcast than SR itself.
Definitely, even the Larkfield/Wikiup area has upgraded systems.

If you are looking to go with DSL, Sonic Net is the way to go. I have them and they are top notch and their customer support is the best I have ever seen. I can't believe it took me so long to drop AT&T, if I'd dropped them sooner I wouldn't have so many gray hairs ;)
Sonic net is highly recommended.

Laters,
Mikef5

If you are looking to go with DSL, Sonic Net is the way to go. I have them and they are top notch and their customer support is the best I have ever seen. I can't believe it took me so long to drop AT&T, if I'd dropped them sooner I wouldn't have so many gray hairs ;)
Sonic net is highly recommended.

Laters,
Mikef5
I was with Sonic way back when they first stared and operated from a hole in the wall downtown Santa Rosa. You could go down there, pay a bill and BS with Dane - great guy BTW.

I really should go back to Sonic but I've been dragging my feet while Comcast drags theirs. With SBC costing me $35 a month now I'm definitely looking at what everybody else has. Sonic has the same service for about $2 less a month, and that's just not worth it to make the change, especially since I've never had any problems with SBC. As far as I know, the fastest you can get from any provider in Santa Rosa is around 4.5 - 5.5mb/s.

Just got a mailer from Comcast today with an offer to trade in my old DCT2000 for an all digital box, presumably a DCT700. If I did that, they would give me a $10 credit on my next bill and waive my monthly box fee for the next 12 months. I was thinking about it until I went to Motorolas website and checked out the DCT700. What a piece of junk that thing is. No front panel time or channel indicator, not even S-video output. A huge step backwards in my opinion. I think I'll pass on this offer and keep my DCT2000. I wonder how long they'll let me keep it.

You should call them and see if they'll trade it out for something other than a DCT700. They are having a firesale on the embedded boxes. DCH's are coming and soon.

Thanks,
mike

So I called Comcast tonight around 10:45 to schedule my CableCARD install. I immediately get a recording that says: "We're experiencing an unusually high volume of calls, probably due to people ordering the Comcast phone service". Right...I'm sure they're getting an influx of calls at 10:45 so people can order their phone service. Too funny.

I was with Sonic way back when they first stared and operated from a hole in the wall downtown Santa Rosa. You could go down there, pay a bill and BS with Dane - great guy BTW.

I really should go back to Sonic but I've been dragging my feet while Comcast drags theirs. With SBC costing me $35 a month now I'm definitely looking at what everybody else has. Sonic has the same service for about $2 less a month, and that's just not worth it to make the change, especially since I've never had any problems with SBC. As far as I know, the fastest you can get from any provider in Santa Rosa is around 4.5 - 5.5mb/s.
Jim,
I was with Pabell/SBC/AT&T for years, I beta tested the first Dsl in our area with Pacbell but I can tell you without hesitation that Sonic blows them away, not in price but in support and service. I've only had one problem with them and it was actually caused by my modem going bad, I've had no problems since then. I don't recommend things very often but these guys deserve it.

Laters,
Mikef5

Jim,
I was with Pabell/SBC/AT&T for years, I beta tested the first Dsl in our area with Pacbell but I can tell you without hesitation that Sonic blows them away, not in price but in support and service. I've only had one problem with them and it was actually caused by my modem going bad, I've had no problems since then. I don't recommend things very often but these guys deserve it.

Laters,
Mikef5
Well, that's the thing, unless Sonic can offer a compelling deal I have no reason to switch as I haven't really had any problems at all with SBC. If I was already with Sonic I probably wouldn't leave them, it's sort of like a solution looking for a problem, of which I don't have so far. In my case Sonic and SBC are one in the same, albeit Sonic is $2 cheaper a month. Now if one or the other offered a higher speed then it would be something to look at - I wish they did, but they don't, yet. Sonic's talk of 24mb/s is definitely interesting, but what's that going to cost? Comcast may be a smidgen faster than what I have now, but the last time I looked they weren't competitive price-wise, I think it ends up being $40-50 a month or some ridiculous figure like that for essentially the same speed.

Well, that's the thing, unless Sonic can offer a compelling deal I have no reason to switch as I haven't really had any problems at all with SBC. If I was already with Sonic I probably wouldn't leave them, it's sort of like a solution looking for a problem, of which I don't have so far. In my case Sonic and SBC are one in the same, albeit Sonic is $2 cheaper a month. Now if one or the other offered a higher speed then it would be something to look at - I wish they did, but they don't, yet. Sonic's talk of 24mb/s is definitely interesting, but what's that going to cost? Comcast may be a smidgen faster than what I have now, but the last time I looked they weren't competitive price-wise, I think it ends up being $40-50 a month or some ridiculous figure like that for essentially the same speed.
Jim,

I understand what you are saying and in your situation it might not be the best thing to switch providers but for the people that are looking for a good DSL provider Sonic is heads above most of the providers out there and definitely their customer support is the best around. Maybe Comcast could borrow some of them :p

Laters,
Mikef5

What exactly is supposed to happen as of July 1st, as far as cable boxes are concerned? I've read a few things, but still don't quit understand exactly what's supposed to happen. Something about being able to purchase our own cable boxes or something like that. Anyone care to enlighten me? I have an opportunity to swap out my old DCT2000 with an all digital box. Would it be wise to do that now are wait and see what happens after July 1st?

What exactly is supposed to happen as of July 1st, as far as cable boxes are concerned? I've read a few things, but still don't quit understand exactly what's supposed to happen. Something about being able to purchase our own cable boxes or something like that. Anyone care to enlighten me? I have an opportunity to swap out my old DCT2000 with an all digital box. Would it be wise to do that now are wait and see what happens after July 1st?
Right now all the boxes use an integrated security function and as of 1 July all new boxes must have that security function separate from the box, which the cable cards will do. Basically, the new Motorola boxes will use cable cards to separate the security functions from the box, which in theory should make it easier for other vendors to make equipment that can make use of cable cards, like the Tivo's . There are other features in the new boxes but the reason for the new DCH boxes is to make use of the cable cards and separate the security function from the box.

Laters,
Mikef5

Does that mean that Comcast will eventually want to replace my DCT6200 with one of the new DCH series boxes?

With all of this talk of Sonic DSL, keep in mind that they ride the same AT&T cable pair that AT&T would use and you will be at the mercy of that pair whoever you use. For example, I am locked into the lowest level of DSL because my of my cable pair makeup back to the central office. With a background in the phone business I am continually challenging the local AT&T Engineering office to bring some fiber into my hub. As of yesterday, they are still laughing at me. They are at the mercy of the home office so I laugh back with them. Now back to the Comcast discussion.....

Well, that's the thing, unless Sonic can offer a compelling deal I have no reason to switch as I haven't really had any problems at all with SBC. If I was already with Sonic I probably wouldn't leave them, it's sort of like a solution looking for a problem, of which I don't have so far. In my case Sonic and SBC are one in the same, albeit Sonic is $2 cheaper a month. Now if one or the other offered a higher speed then it would be something to look at - I wish they did, but they don't, yet. Sonic's talk of 24mb/s is definitely interesting, but what's that going to cost? Comcast may be a smidgen faster than what I have now, but the last time I looked they weren't competitive price-wise, I think it ends up being $40-50 a month or some ridiculous figure like that for essentially the same speed.
For me, if there was a high cost in switching I would feel the same way. If there was little to no cost in switching and no commitment, I would go with Sonic.

My reasoning would be, if I ever do have a problem I will likely be quite annoyed already and will want it to get fixed quickly and efficiently with no run-arounds, late appointments, etc.

If you have no problems ever, then your exposure to the service/support portion of a company is nil, but you can't predict these things.

Now if Sonic cost significantly more than SBC or there was a long-term commitment, that would be a harder decision.

I too have had few service issues with SBC DSL, but when I did about 5-years back it took me 3 days to navigate through the bureaucracy to find a technician who could understand and fix the problem. There first solution to the problem was to move me to a 256k/128k speed profile. While the problem did go away, I didn't feel that was an acceptable solution as the DSL had been working fine for 3-years earlier and I never had a problem, so clearly something changed recently and I wanted help in isolating that. I had already tried a different modem on my own and had connected to the demarc point, so I knew nothing on my side was causing the issue.

Now the same thing could have happened with Sonic, because I think everyone needs to go through ASI for the provisioning, but I think they would at least treat me better and show genuine concern, which SBC did not.

I do agree if Sonic offered a better promo offer on top of that, then it would be an even easier decision.

Does that mean that Comcast will eventually want to replace my DCT6200 with one of the new DCH series boxes?
Yes, they have no choice, so eventually all the old boxes will be gone. It's really not that big of a deal. You will still get everything that you get now it's just the box will use cable cards. The boxes are made by Motorola just like the DCT's are so you as a customer will only see that the new box needs a cable card. There are other features in the new boxes but most of the changes will be transparent to the customer. Change is not always bad ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

With all of this talk of Sonic DSL, keep in mind that they ride the same AT&T cable pair that AT&T would use and you will be at the mercy of that pair whoever you use. For example, I am locked into the lowest level of DSL because my of my cable pair makeup back to the central office. With a background in the phone business I am continually challenging the local AT&T Engineering office to bring some fiber into my hub. As of yesterday, they are still laughing at me. They are at the mercy of the home office so I laugh back with them. Now back to the Comcast discussion.....
I'm lucky in that I'm about a mile from the switch so I can get whatever the highest speed that is available, which currently is 6mb/s I believe, but it never gets that high in practice, maybe if I was right downtown, but it's usually around 4500-5000kb/s.

I do agree if Sonic offered a better promo offer on top of that, then it would be an even easier decision.
Yes, I'll just have to keep watching to see if they offer anything but I think they are so closely tied to the AT&T price structure that there won't be much difference.

I have no idea what the service/reliability is with Comcast in this area, but it's a moot point until they either lower the price or raise the speed.

Ok, I think we are getting off topic here so this will be my last on Sonic Net.
I did a speed test and this is what I'm getting down here in Milpitas.

5098 / 632 (Kbps)
(622.3 / 77.1 KB/sec)
Compared to the average of 66 tests from sonic.net:
* download is 77% better, upload is 39% better

Your mileage may vary.

I have been thinking of going with Comcast Internet as soon as my area gets fully upgraded just so I can have everything on one bill but I'm going to have to do a lot of research to see if Comcast is as good as DSL. So if anyone has Comcast internet your input would be appreciated.
Time to go back to Comcast discussions.. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Not really off-topic as Comcast is an internet provider. I'd like to hear from anyone in the Santa Rosa area who have Comcast HSI what their experience has been.

You know, if I could drop the landline requirement by going with Sonic I would do it today. :)

If this list is accurate I'll have the first post changed. If folks could look it over and make sure it's correct I'd appreciate it.

We only get 8 of those channels up here in Santa Rosa(the bay area's cable TV history museum). :rolleyes: :D

If the first post is going to be updated, how about including information on Enhanced Cable as well, which I think has been available since about six months ago?

I believe the HD lineup for Enhanced Cable is at worst equivalent to that stated for Limited Basic, but at best may for the time being include additional channels from the Digital Classic tier, depending on area?

(In my area it includes Mojo, FSN, Discovery, ESPN, and ESPN2 currently.)

If the first post is going to be updated, how about including information on Enhanced Cable as well, which I think has been available since about six months ago?

I believe the HD lineup for Enhanced Cable is at worst equivalent to that stated for Limited Basic, but at best may for the time being include additional channels from the Digital Classic tier, depending on area?

(In my area it includes Mojo, FSN, Discovery, ESPN, and ESPN2 currently.)
I'll get to it, eventually. The reason the first post doesn't have individual package info is the channel selection for those packages is different depending on where you are located in the bay area. The post is basically focused on what HD channels are available and the equipment. If there's something else that should be added in there feel free to write up something and if it passes muster here with the rest of the thread members we can put it in.

BTW, if someone would format some info on the new equipment that would be nice, like the DCT700, the what and the why, that sort of thing.

Fact is, anyone here can re-do that post and we can get it updated. If everyone prefers that one person does it, I'll do it, or if someone else wants to take a whack at it go for it, but try and give formatted info so it's easier to plug it in.

I don't think they have any other boxes to give out but the DCT-700. If you want something better you have to spring for HD. Or, DVR at least. What are the new (SD) DVR boxes anyway?

Mike,

Comcast HSI service is top notch, at leat here in San Jose. I don't remember any downtime in the last 4 years. The speeds are better than DSL, they have speed boost that helps a lot.

I guess it depends how you use the internet, for browsing you really don't need a lot, and you won't see any difference. For downloading stuff, I can say that it's really fast. I'm really used now to downloading 300 MB in a couple of minutes.

Mike,

Comcast HSI service is top notch, at leat here in San Jose. I don't remember any downtime in the last 4 years. The speeds are better than DSL, they have speed boost that helps a lot.

I guess it depends how you use the internet, for browsing you really don't need a lot, and you won't see any difference. For downloading stuff, I can say that it's really fast. I'm really used now to downloading 300 MB in a couple of minutes.
Most of what I do is downloading large ISO's for different Linux distro's and I do video files . I'm testing out different Linux systems for a new computer that I'm building so speed is very important to me. My sister has Comcast Internet but she's mostly web browsing and email but I guess I could see her system to get a better feel of it. But she's a little like me, you don't want people screwing around with the computer when you have things set up just the way you like it :)
How is the customer service for their internet ?? Are the CSR's the same as the cable one's or are they a separate division ?? Support is important when that rare occurrence does happen and you need them :eek:

Laters,
Mikef5

If the first post is going to be updated, how about including information on Enhanced Cable as well, which I think has been available since about six months ago?
It is my impression "Enhanced" cable is basically standard cable but created for those digital-only customers. It has the exact same channels as standard cable plus one bonus channel (in my area). It is so similar to standard cable that I have concluded it is some accounting placeholder package to keep track of digital vs analog "standard" cable subscribers. Enhanced does cost $1 more per month in many areas. I think they give you Movieplex or some channel like that for your $1. It also comes with 1 free stb, but depending on who you talk to, standard cable did that also.

It doesn't give you any additional HD channels AFAICT. You get what you get before, which is the unencrypted HD channels that you get with standard cable.

You don't get the Digital Classic High Definition Tier, that requires Digital Classic Tier.

Enhanced cable also doesn't affect your Grandfather status.

If you ask for the free DCT-700's they will convert you to Enhanced automatically.

Comcast HSI is simply amazing, especially since they put in "power boost" which basically un-caps the modem (30 Mbps max) for the first 15-20 megabytes of large files. It even works on uploads (about 2 Mbps max) now.

If you have both cable modem and DSL services in your area, you can switch between the two to get promotional rates and other incentives.

Linux ISOs should download faster with Comcast HSI.

The support team is different from the one for TV. And it's like all support teams, you can't expect a lot for the first person that answer your call, but you can request to talk with someone that knows.

I only remember one call in the last years. I moved to a new house, and it seems that they guy that did the "installation" did something wrong. Since I knowledgeable about networking and IT I had an idea of what the problem was, so the first person I talked to I let her know what the issue was, and she tried to help but she really didn't know how. My call dropped, so I called again. And I explained again my issue to a new person, she already knew what to do and that's it. I think the problem was that the tech that did the install didn't registered my cable modem the right way.

Oh and the best thing of all, right now I'm paying $20/month for HSI.

If you have both cable modem and DSL services in your area, you can switch between the two to get promotional rates and other incentives.
That was I was looking to do, but none of them seem to have any clear cut advantage. The below is what it available in my area - all from their websites.

Comcast
6mb service
$24.95 for six months and then it goes to $42.95 per month.

Total for year of service - $407.47

Comcast
8mb service
$43.00 for six months and then it goes to $52.95 per month

Total for year of service - 575.70

AT&T
6mb service
$34.99 per month

Total for year of service - $419.88

Sonic
6mb service
$32.95 - which can be locked for a year

Total for year of service - $395.28

The Sonic rate says it's promotional, after the one year price freeze it appears it could go to their standard rate which is $64.95 per month totaling $779.40 for a year of service although I can't imagine they would do that as it's wholly uncompetitive.

None of the above include any install/equipment charges.

So, I guess I'm staying where I am for now. I will try to play the Comcast $24.95 rate off of AT&T to get them to move down on the $34.99. I'm not sure if Sonic bargains or not.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/comcast-promises-400-hd-channels-this-year-and-800-the-next/

Hahahahaha!!! :D

Don't sign up directly through Comcast. Places like Circuit City usually have free modem after rebate, $100 gift card, and $20/month for 6 months. Amazon has similar deal but no modem. Promotions vary.

AT&T has up to 2 months free and up to $50 back. Free DSL modem after rebate.

I don't think I have ever paid for installation and activation charges.

Don't sign up directly through Comcast. Places like Circuit City usually have free modem after rebate, $100 gift card, and $20/month for 6 months. Amazon has similar deal but no modem. Promotions vary.

AT&T has up to 2 months free and up to $50 back. Free DSL modem after rebate.

I don't think I have ever paid for installation and activation charges.
Thanks, I would have never thought about looking at Amazon or Circuit City, those deals definitely have my interest.

Can I do everything I do with SBC with Comcast HSI? Multiple computers/users, PS3, S3, wireless...?

Yes and it's even easier (no PPOE login stuff to deal with on your router). I mean you don't have to TELL them you have a router, but I don't think they even mind anymore...

For email you can setup multiple sub-accounts.

You also get a small web page hosting (5 megabytes, I think, but no bandwidth limits..)

I got a $33/mo for 1 year deal when I moved (for 6Mb).
With "speed boost" it looks like this
http://www.dslreports.com/im/31702588/9503.png
for the first 15-20 megs of large files, anyway, normally 6Mb/384k.

Can I do everything I do with SBC with Comcast HSI? Multiple computers/users, PS3, S3, wireless...?

All of your devices should already be on a LAN behind a router. Changing the ISP is just a matter of plugging that router into a cable modem instead of a DSL modem. Your devices shouldn't even know the difference.

For email you can setup multiple sub-accounts.

Do not use the ISP's email and web services if you want to play the ISP switching game.

Check this list, too
http://www.dslreports.com/archive/comcast.net?s=22713&r=665

(near the bottom of the page)
29365/1701 Comcast anon Santa Rosa, CA, USA 12th 09:21 PM
(one of the fastest Comcast HSI speeds in the whole country, in Santa Rosa?? who'da thunk it?)

The only other questions I have are regarding servers, p2p, and capping bandwidth if you send/receive too much. Any comments from Comcast users?

You're not allowed to run web or email servers, and they block ports 25 and 80 anyway. Technically as long as you're not crippling the network, what they don't know won't hurt em...

P2P is allowed, or at least not blocked, and there is a bandwidth cap, but I think as long as you don't go totally bonkers you should be fine. I've heard 100 GB per month will start to put you on the radar.... I've ran P2P 24/7 before and not had any problems - though I doubt if my usage was over 20 GB/month, let alone 100...

I've run web servers. A web interface in port 8080 to access Sage TV from outside, really useful. No problem from Comcast.

I've run P2P: Torrent and edonkey (emule). Both at the same time with no problem. I think with edonkey I've been running for 2 o 3 days. For torrent, since Comcast is so fast, it usually takes max 6 hours for the biggest files 4-6 GB.

But I don't download everyday, and I don't think I've downloaded more than 20 GB in any month.

All of your devices should already be on a LAN behind a router. Changing the ISP is just a matter of plugging that router into a cable modem instead of a DSL modem. Your devices shouldn't even know the difference.
What I have is 2Wire DSL modem that plugs into a Linksys gigabyte switch, everything plugs into the switch.

Also use two ISP-based email/login accounts which is going to be a bit of a pain when switching to another ISP.

Another added benefit of going with Comcast is that I can dump my POTS line which will save me another $13 a month.

So, given that reliability, service and functionality are essentially the same for both Comcast and AT&T/Sonic, hopefully anyways, then Comcast seems like a no-brainer.

Another added benefit of going with Comcast is that I can dump my POTS line which will save me another $13 a month.

That's the main reason I have Comcast HSI.

That's the main reason I have Comcast HSI.
How's the reliability of service, honestly? Having practically 365days/7yrs of uptime with SBC it can only get worse who ever I go with - which is fine, no provider is perfect - but are we talking once a month, every couple of months, can't remember the last time... :p

What I have is 2Wire DSL modem that plugs into a Linksys gigabyte switch, everything plugs into the switch.

That DSL modem has a built-in router. There are cable modems with built-in router as well, but I prefer to use a separate router for my LAN. That makes switching between DSL and cable really easy.

You're not allowed to run web or email servers, and they block ports 25 and 80 anyway.
They don't block 80. I haven't tried 25. Only time I remember Comcast blocking 80 was a few years back and there was some really bad virus that was spreading around with port 80. But I always run HTTP and SSH on multiple ports. Also ip address does not really change may be once in a few months.

That DSL modem has a built-in router. There are cable modems with built-in router as well, but I prefer to use a separate router for my LAN. That makes switching between DSL and cable really easy.
Good idea, does the "free" modem that comes with the Comcast service have a builtin router?

Good idea, does the "free" modem that comes with the Comcast service have a builtin router?

Not the one I got from Circuit City, and most likely no. This site offers a separate wireless router as well. No personal experience with that site, so it's not a recommendation.

http://www.comcastspecial.com/index.html?PID=cj:227502

Not the one I got from Circuit City, and most likely no. This site offers a separate wireless router as well. No personal experience with that site, so it's not a recommendation.

http://www.comcastspecial.com/index.html?PID=cj:227502
Interesting, I've had D-Link stuff before and never had a problem with it. This link seems to be a better deal than the CC one.

http://compass.getconnected.com/?*******ccityo&partnerID=ccity&channel=web&append=yes
Circuit City Online - Set Location

How's the reliability of service, honestly? Having practically 365days/7yrs of uptime with SBC it can only get worse who ever I go with - which is fine, no provider is perfect - but are we talking once a month, every couple of months, can't remember the last time... :p

It's not 100%, but it's close--comparable to what you describe at SBC. And phone support has been good--to my astonishment. I've been with the service since the Excite@Home days, before the feeding chain of takeovers got us to Comcast. Back then, all outages--and they were frequent--were defined as the customer's fault, which made service calls a Kafka-like experience. From that memory, I still wince when I call Comcast, but they've been patient (even when my modem was at fault) and candid.

My only complaint is an odd one. I often email to Japan, and many of those get "refused"--forcing me to use a different account. Somewhere, there's a Comcast server that is still on someone's spam list.

Mine has never been down that I can remember.

Not since the AT&T days, anyway. THAT I remember......

I have lost a fun recorded program.
I had to exchange my 6412 box for a 3416 and had put the HD puff program "Alien Adventure" on the DVR. I actually kind of liked it and would go to it from time to time, especially for guests viewing my home projector setup.

Well now INHD is Mojo and I have scanned the guide schedules looking for the program and it just can't be found. Am I looking on the right channel? Do these things just come around after a while? Can I buy this animated program somewhere?

I have lost a fun recorded program.
I had to exchange my 6412 box for a 3416 and had put the HD puff program "Alien Adventure" on the DVR. I actually kind of liked it and would go to it from time to time, especially for guests viewing my home projector setup.

Well now INHD is Mojo and I have scanned the guide schedules looking for the program and it just can't be found. Am I looking on the right channel? Do these things just come around after a while. Can I buy this animated program somewhere?

The film is available on DVD, but alas not HD DVD. You can get it from an assortment of internet vendors like Amazon. Netflix also has it. It is a 2D-3D disc. Have it your way.

How's the reliability of service, honestly? Having practically 365days/7yrs of uptime with SBC it can only get worse who ever I go with - which is fine, no provider is perfect - but are we talking once a month, every couple of months, can't remember the last time... :p

Since Comcast took it over from AT&T (I was a transfer customer), I would say there has been maybe 3 outages, never lasting more than a few hours.

Mine has never been down that I can remember.

Not since the AT&T days, anyway. THAT I remember......

Hahaha...yeah, AT&T was pretty bad. I remember having weekly outages. The lack of a land line was the only thing that kept me from switching to DSL during those days.

So ATT used to be HSI, now ATT is DSL, so they have come full circle and are competing with their former self. That's karma for you.

So ATT used to be HSI, now ATT is DSL, so they have come full circle and are competing with their former self. That's karma for you.

It's worse than the "Let's spend millions changing our branding to Cingular, and then a few years later spend millions more to change it back."

I've had the service since TCI. They were good, uncapped download (maybe 8-10mbits from fast sites, this was 1999 after all), but only 128k upload.

Then ATTBI came in and *cough* re-built the system, which worked horribly for the first month or so (weekly outages? try 5-minutely outages) and capped the download to 1.5mbits. ATTBI - let us never speak of this again...

When Comcast took over they immediately doubled the upload to 256k, and raised the download to 2Mbit, then 3Mbit down and 384k up, then 4M down, and now 6M/384k with speed boosts on both (30M/1.5M). I guess there's 8Mb service available too, though for the price I don't think it's worth it... not if you can get 6Mb for $33/mo (and 8Mb is what, $75?).

So I received my S3 yesterday and had scheduled a CC install appointment for today in anticipation. I just got a call saying they're out of CC and have to reschedule to next Wednesday! :mad: I'm glad I took the morning off of work for this.

For those that have an S3, once the cable cards are installed, will I start receiving the SD channels in digital? (a la ADS). I'm noticing I'm pulling in the analog versions right now.

For those that have an S3, once the cable cards are installed, will I start receiving the SD channels in digital? (a la ADS).

That depends on how lucky you are. I couldn't get ADS when I tried to get it. Even tried adding DCT700 to my account. Now I have it for some reason.

Ok, the below has the channel updates, make sure it's correct and then we can work on the rest of it, the equipment, etc. I'm guessing all references to INHD should be removed..??

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

San Francisco Bay Area Comcast Information
============================================================ ==============

This thread contains posts regarding Comcast HDTV service in the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose Bay Area. (This covers San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Sonoma, and Napa counties.)

For Solano County see note below.

To summarize status as of August, 2006:

HD Channels:

Note: Not all channels are available everywhere. Check with your local Comcast office, or better yet, post the question here as you will get the most accurate, up to date, information from this group. Having a location/city in your profile helps tremendously.

Local broadcast channels - available with Limited Basic subscription
702 KTVU-DT (FOX) 720p & DD 5.1
703 KNTV-DT (NBC) 1080i & DD 5.1
704 KRON-DT (MyTV) 1080i
705 KPIX-DT (CBS) 1080i & DD 5.1
707 KGO-DT (ABC) 720p & DD 5.1
709 KQED-DT (PBS) (on air 8 p.m. to 6 a.m.) 1080i & DD 5.1
712 KBCW-DT (CW) 1080i

Digital Classic subscription required
715 NGC - National Geographic HD 720p
718 A&E - Arts & Entertainment HD
719 MoJo HD (formerly INHD) 1080i
720 FSNBA-HD Fox Sports Bay Area HD 1080i (some Warriors, A's and Giants games ) FSN Bay Area Website-- HD Schedule (http://fsnbayarea.com/FSNHD.jsp)

721 Versus HD (sports, NHL, golf)
722 Discovery HD Theater 1080i & DD 5.1
723 ESPN HD (encrypted in most areas) 720p & DD 5.1
724 ESPN2 HD 720p
725 Special Events - (Used for NFL-HD Game of the Week, also occasionally used as a spill-over)

726 TNT-HD 1080i
727 UHD - Universal HD 1080i
728 Music HD (combination of HD content from MTV, VH1, and CMT)

Premium Channels
730 HBO HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1
732 Cinemax HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1
734 Starz HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1
736 Showtime HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1

Note re encryption: This varies from one head end to the next. Some premiums and/or ESPN HD and/or InHD may be unencrypted in your area, but that will change as soon as Comcast gets all the necessary equipment to encrypt. Only the local HD channels will be "in the clear" once all the head ends have the proper equipment.

Note re ADS: ADS, or Analog-Digital Simulcasting, is when the analog channels are duplicated as digital subchannels. This allows for cheaper, smaller digital boxes as the analog tuner is not needed. ADS also eliminates the need for MPEG encoders in the DVR's. The primary advantage is the elimination of interference typically associated with analog signals.

Most 750/850MHz systems in the Bay Area have implemented ADS. The surest way of obtaining the digital versions of the analog channels is to incorporate at least one Motorola 3412 STB in your household. Once the headend receives the signal that you're in an "ADS-ready" area, your other STB's will automatically start using the digital channels. To find out if you're receiving the digital channels, tune both of your tuners to channel 2, go in to the diagnostics menu, and go to "d06 CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS". If both tuners say 'QAM 256" then you're receiving the digital version of the channel. If they say "Analog" then you are receiving the analog version of the channel.

Note re 550 Mhz systems: Not all (or any) HD channels may be available in some Bay Area systems because they are not yet "rebuilt" to either 750 mHz or 860 mHz and thus have less bandwidth to devote to HDTV. As it stands August 2006, there doesn't appear to be any plans to upgrade these systems to bring parity with the rest of the SF bay area. The prevailing assumption is that as we move closer to the analog OTA shutdown date, Comcast will be moving analog channels to digital, and thus, freeing up bandwidth for more channels and services on these systems. This looks to be a long and slow process covering years so don't expect anything new to appear on these systems anytime soon. On these systems you will NOT get: INHD*, INHD2,* FSN Bay Area HD*, Showtime HD, KRON HD and/or HD Special Events among others depending on the particular system.

But, you will pay the same rates as subscribers who do receive the full complement of channels and services. This is an inequity that Comcast, to date, has not addressed and continues to remain silent on.

These systems are located in, among other areas,

Antioch
Hayward
Los Gatos
Milpitas
Pittsburg
San Leandro
San Lorenzo
Santa Rosa
Saratoga
Sunnyvale(parts)
Vallejo

* INHD and INHD2 are available in areas of Saratoga, Milpitas and Los Gatos even though these are primarily 550 Mhz systems.

Note: Solano County. Information obtained from Comcast subscriber heyjjjaded in Vacaville.

1. Our local HD channels are all out of Sacramento
2. Unlike Sacramento though, all of our HD channels are in the 700's (the way they are in San Francisco)
3. We get standard network non-HD channels (NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox) from both Sacramento & San Francisco
4. The 800 telephone number on our Comcast brochure puts us through to the bay area
5. Our HD problems (break-ups, audio-drops, failure to switch from INHD2 to FSN HD) almost always coincide with the same problems reported by the Sacramento customers

For further Sacramento information, see the Sacramento Comcast Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8175752#post8175752)


HD Capable Set Top Box/Firmware:

Motorola 5100 and Motorola 6200

The 6200 has a faster processor and two firewire (IEEE 1394) ports.

Firmware 7.15 (7.10 in some areas). DVI and Firewire are activated with both versions but are more stable and user friendly with 7.15.

Current software is 51.88-2002.

See the rest of the thread, below, or the 5100/6200 thread in the HDTV Hardware forum for more specific information.

HD-DVR/Software:

Motorola 6412-- first became available in December 2004. (6208 was originally projected to be available November/December 2003). Costs extra $9.95 per month (or $4.95 per month more than a non-DVR HD STB rental from Comcast) above what you are otherwise paying for now.

Software for the HD DVR the iGuide, by Guideworks, a joint venture of Comcast and Gemstar-TV Guide. Software for all other HD boxes will eventually be the iGuide but has not yet been downloaded to them as of February 17, 2005.

Current firmware version for the 6412:

Current software version for the 6412: 71.44 1203 (revision should be coming in the next couple of months)


Motorola 6412 PIII--same as 6412 listed above but has HDMI video output vs DVI for the above 6412.

Current firmware version for the 6412-PIII: 12.31


Motorola 3412--same as 6412 PIII only it has no analog tuner. The 3412 is a digital-only DVR and can be used only on systems where ADS has been implemented.

Current firmware version for the 3412: 12.22


Costs:

Limited basic cable, which is required for all subscriptions, ranges from $9 to $17 per month depending on your area. HD STB rental (non-DVR) is $5 per month. To get INHD and ESPN HD, if encrypted, you need Digital Classic tier at $9.95 per month. Premium HD channels, if encrypted, are received with any a la carte or package subscription that includes the SD versions of those channels.

HD-DVR (6412-3412) cost: $4.95 more per month than the standard HD STB. To be eligible to rent the DVR you must have a subscription to Standard Cable and at least Digital Classic--average cost--$57

Note: All the above prices prices and packages will vary somewhat from area to area, check with others in your location and/or contact the local Comcast office that serves your area.


I will update this summary as information changes. If anyone has different or updated information to the above, please post it to this thread and I will incorporate it.

That depends on how lucky you are. I couldn't get ADS when I tried to get it. Even tried adding DCT700 to my account. Now I have it for some reason.

I've had ADS for a while now...but I could have sworn the 2-72 channels I'm getting sans the CC is in analog. Where's the best place to look for that on the S3?

Isn't 709 KQED on 24/7 now?

Also 704 seems to be a mix of original KRON programming (rarely HD though) and that "MyHD".

Isn't 709 KQED on 24/7 now?It's been 24/7 for quite some time now.

I've had ADS for a while now...but I could have sworn the 2-72 channels I'm getting sans the CC is in analog. Where's the best place to look for that on the S3?

ADS does not apply at all unless the CableCards are installed to handle the QAM mapping. Whether the CableCards will be programmed for analog or ADS is another issue.

On the Comcast vs Sonic.net debate, I had Sonic/Broadlink service for a few years and it seems the Broadlink connection would go down monthly. The Broadlink part wasn't cheap either so last year I switched to Comcast HSI and now get 3 or 4 times the speed as a little bit less in price and so far, Comcast has not burped once.
DSL isn't available where I live which is just below Larkfield and I'm on the Healdsburg Comcast head end.

The Sonic rate says it's promotional, after the one year price freeze it appears it could go to their standard rate which is $64.95 per month totaling $779.40 for a year of service although I can't imagine they would do that as it's wholly uncompetitive.
You just have to commit to another year to keep the promo price. The other good thing about Sonic is the additional services. Namely, I love their usenet access. For anybody who has experience with binary usenet, you usually end up paying some 3rd party $10-$20 per month. With Sonic, it's included, and it's as fast as your connection (I download stuff at 650 kB/s). It's great.

On the Comcast vs Sonic.net debate, I had Sonic/Broadlink service for a few years and it seems the Broadlink connection would go down monthly. The Broadlink part wasn't cheap either so last year I switched to Comcast HSI and now get 3 or 4 times the speed as a little bit less in price and so far, Comcast has not burped once.
DSL isn't available where I live which is just below Larkfield and I'm on the Healdsburg Comcast head end.
Yeah, I tried Broadlink briefly, and it was crap. I'm skeptical of people talking about WiMax. I don't know if wireless can ever compete.

:mad: wow....... giants visit fenway park for the first time since 1912 and hdsportsguide makes no mention of any HD we'd be able to see. the fox saturday game is definitely widescreen SD. this sucks. every red sox game is in HD (but obviously we have no access to NESN). i was looking forward to it.

Comcast HSI includes a free Giganews account, it does have a 2GByte/month limit though.

Most 750/850MHz
...
HD-DVR (6412-3412) cost: $4.95 more per month than the standard HD STB. To be eligible to rent the DVR you must have a subscription to Standard Cable and at least Digital Classic--average cost--$57
...
Note: All the above prices prices and packages will vary somewhat from area to area, check with others in your location and/or contact the local Comcast office that serves your area.

Sorry, I know you mentioned just wanting the channel information reviewed, but I figured I'd post the other stuff before I forget.

Should say "750/860"MHz

HD-DVR ($11.95) changed to $6.95 more than standard HD-STB ($5). There may have been mention that HD-STB might be going up also.

HD-DVR (in our area) requires
Expanded Basic $37.23
Digital Classic $11.95
DVR Service $11.95

Depending on your existing/desired service, true cost can range from $61.13/mo to $11.95/mo extra.

To require Expanded Basic for an HD product is nothing short of a scam. I got stuck with a similar scam when I switched from Dish Network to Comcast. They gave you a credit if they could take the Dish receiver but you had to also have Expanded Basic to get the credit. IOW a plain and simple shell game if you do the math. Analog TV looks like crap on an HD set so I know few HD owners who ever watch it. It's like giving them welfare payments.

ADS does not apply at all unless the CableCards are installed to handle the QAM mapping. Whether the CableCards will be programmed for analog or ADS is another issue.

Gotcha. I'll make sure I mention it to the installer if/when he shows up. Thanks.

Sorry, I know you mentioned just wanting the channel information reviewed, but I figured I'd post the other stuff before I forget.

Should say "750/860"MHz

HD-DVR ($11.95) changed to $6.95 more than standard HD-STB ($5). There may have been mention that HD-STB might be going up also.

HD-DVR (in our area) requires
Expanded Basic $37.23
Digital Classic $11.95
DVR Service $11.95

Depending on your existing/desired service, true cost can range from $61.13/mo to $11.95/mo extra.
No, no, I wanted all of it reviewed, what you've posted here is excellent. I figure we'll tear it apart and put it back together over the next few days and if it all looks good get it pasted into the first post.

I've had ADS for a while now...but I could have sworn the 2-72 channels I'm getting sans the CC is in analog. Where's the best place to look for that on the S3?
It's been awhile, but if you tune to one of those channels, then go to TiVo Central, select Messages and Settings, Account and System Information, then Diagnostics it will give you all the related info to the channel you're tuned to.

From Fred's HOTP thread,

The Business of Television
Comcast to Spread Cost of CableCard Set-Tops
Operators Turns to Subscribers to Recover Costs
By Todd Spangler Multichannel News 6/14/2007

Comcast expects to increase fees to both new and existing subscribers to recover the higher costs of CableCard-based set-top boxes, which most cable operators will be required to deploy starting July 1 under the Federal Communications Commission’s so-called integration ban.

Comcast eventually will apply incrementally higher fees across all markets, including those price-regulated by the FCC.

“We’ll recover our costs,” Comcast senior director of communications for government affairs Sena Fitzmaurice said. “We plan to recoup the cost of the [CableCard] boxes.”

But it’s not yet clear how much higher fees will be because of the FCC’s CableCard mandate.

According to the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, the work necessary to enable set-top devices to work with CableCards will add approximately $72-$93 to each set-top. The association has claimed that translates into $2-$3 more in monthly lease charges to consumers.

However, Comcast does not intend to charge extra fees for only those subscribers with CableCard-based boxes. Rather, the cost of CableCard set-tops will be averaged with the cost of set-tops with integrated security features or otherwise spread among existing subscribers.

Under FCC regulations, in markets where a cable operator is deemed to not be subject to “effective competition,” local franchise authorities regulate rates for equipment and installation services based on an average of costs reported by the cable operator. Operators must file updated equipment and installation charges annually.

Comcast most recently filed those cost calculations companywide for regulated markets this spring. When the operator updates its equipment and installation charges in the spring of 2008, the costs associated with CableCard boxes that have been deployed this year will be factored in.

In unregulated markets -- where competitors have sizable share -- Comcast’s individual systems will determine how to recoup CableCard costs. Extra fees may be incorporated into certain levels of service, such as digital-cable tiers, or take the form of an additional box charge, according to the company.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6452165

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10789339#post10789339
Hot Off The Press: The Latest TV News and Information - AVS Forum

I've had ADS for a while now...but I could have sworn the 2-72 channels I'm getting sans the CC is in analog. Where's the best place to look for that on the S3?
I don't have S3 but if it allows you to select "quality" for a recording on a channel then it is not digital. If that fails, record a program in BestQuality and if that take 3GB+, then it is analog.

Digital subcription required is ambiguous. Digital Classic should offcially allow all those channels as of now.

That depends on how lucky you are. I couldn't get ADS when I tried to get it. Even tried adding DCT700 to my account. Now I have it for some reason.
When I got my s3, ADS was not turned on automatically. It does not seem like they do this automatically for the s3 cablecards (go figure; the digital artifacts must be worse than the analog ones in some neighborhoods). However it just took 1 simple phone call to comcast to get them to turn on ADS for my s3. No need to screw around with activating some other device just to get ADS on the s3.

How's the reliability of service, honestly? Having practically 365days/7yrs of uptime with SBC it can only get worse who ever I go with - which is fine, no provider is perfect - but are we talking once a month, every couple of months, can't remember the last time... :pI've had about 3 multi-hour mid day outages with comcast in the last month. This is below average - usually such outages come with winter storms or at 2am when ISPs are doing maintenace. Apparently comcast has been screwing around with power supplies in my area. When I call them to find out why I have neither working internet nor TV they are unapolgetic and don't have an ETA for repair. They are just like: oh ya, there's an outage in your area.
I probably would upgrade to a higher service level if they truly offered one - the Comcast tech advised *against* paying for their higher peak bandwidth service, claiming it wouldn't improve reliability or even provide the bandwidth difference that their marketing advertises.

On the other hand, with SBC dsl, I used to have outages as well, especially due to upstream network maintenance. Back in the day, covad business dsl used to give me the best uptime.

However it just took 1 simple phone call to comcast to get them to turn on ADS for my s3. No need to screw around with activating some other device just to get ADS on the s3.
As is the case with many conversations with Comcast, it just depends on who you talk to. If you get the wrong person, it is a long process. If you get the right person it is very quick.

Digital subcription required is ambiguous. Digital Classic should offcially allow all those channels as of now.
Fixed.

I've had about 3 multi-hour mid day outages with comcast in the last month. This is below average - usually such outages come with winter storms or at 2am when ISPs are doing maintenace. Apparently comcast has been screwing around with power supplies in my area. When I call them to find out why I have neither working internet nor TV they are unapolgetic and don't have an ETA for repair. They are just like: oh ya, there's an outage in your area.
I probably would upgrade to a higher service level if they truly offered one - the Comcast tech advised *against* paying for their higher peak bandwidth service, claiming it wouldn't improve reliability or even provide the bandwidth difference that their marketing advertises.

On the other hand, with SBC dsl, I used to have outages as well, especially due to upstream network maintenance. Back in the day, covad business dsl used to give me the best uptime.Thanks, what is your area?

Thanks, what is your area?Kentfield. When I last had DSL that was San Francisco. I do like having the higher bandwidth of the cable modem. If you can get 24x7 uptime out of your service, I think you're getting lucky; I don't think you can count on that when just paying residential rates.

As is the case with many conversations with Comcast, it just depends on who you talk to. If you get the wrong person, it is a long process. If you get the right person it is very quick.The takeaway being to just call back if you get someone who doesn't know how to activate ADS instead of going to all the trouble of renting an extra STB just to try and get ADS activated (like some have suggested doing).

The takeaway being to just call back if you get someone who doesn't know how to activate ADS instead of going to all the trouble of renting an extra STB just to try and get ADS activated (like some have suggested doing).

I called twice and got nowhere. People have reported successful results by adding all digital boxes, so I tried it, and it still didn't work. I gave up, since ADS was not really important to me. My S3s are used to record only HD channels anyway. Then without me doing anything, my CableCards were updated with ADS mapping.

The film is available on DVD, but alas not HD DVD. You can get it from an assortment of internet vendors like Amazon. Netflix also has it. It is a 2D-3D disc. Have it your way.

The 3D disk seems interesting. But I think I need a special video card and special glasses to plug into it. Years ago I got a video card with a jack and the glasses but never got it working. The card has long since died. Can the 3D disk just be played in a regular DVD player and viewer just wear cardboard glasses?

Yes and the glasses come with the disc. That same 3D disc also has 2D as well.

The takeaway being to just call back if you get someone who doesn't know how to activate ADS instead of going to all the trouble of renting an extra STB just to try and get ADS activated (like some have suggested doing).
The takeaway is that I've learned from experience not to expect my own experience to be similar to someone else's experience. Something that may take 1 call for me could take 2-10 calls for someone else. One just needs to decide how much effort the particular thing they are calling about is worth to the individual.

Anyone in Milpitas. Look to channel 715 ( NGC-HD ), it's been there for 3 days and no one noticed it ??? ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

According to the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, the work necessary to enable set-top devices to work with CableCards will add approximately $72-$93 to each set-top. The association has claimed that translates into $2-$3 more in monthly lease charges to consumers.Exactly as I predicted... And I'm sure this will create a vast new market for CableCard 1.0 /sarcasm
Thanks a lot FCC! :mad:

Exactly as I predicted... And I'm sure this will create a vast new market for CableCard 1.0 /sarcasm
Thanks a lot FCC! :mad:
Here's the problem with blaming the FCC. The cable cards have been bi-directional all along, it was the choice of the manufacturers to make their hardware uni-directional. Why did the manufacturers not make their products fully compliant with the cable card specs ??? It was cheaper for them to do that or they wanted you to use their interface instead of the cable companies. What it seems the FCC is trying to do is to get everyone to use the same standards and not to deviate from the specs but fully use them. Now that the FCC has said that cable companies have to use cable cards it's hoped that cable cards for other vendors will finally get the support that they need. Yes, it sucks that the customer gets the cost passed on to them but there's plenty of blame to go around not just the FCC.

Laters,
Mikef5

The takeaway is that I've learned from experience not to expect my own experience to be similar to someone else's experience. Something that may take 1 call for me could take 2-10 calls for someone else. One just needs to decide how much effort the particular thing they are calling about is worth to the individual.Yes of course "YMMV", as they say. I would think that'd be simple common sense not something to be newly learned thru dealing with comcast.

BTW, I'm sorry to hear c3 couldn't get comcast to turn on ADS by request, and I probably wouldn't keep calling for something as minor as ADS.

The point I was trying to make in the first place was that I don't think one should obtain equipment you don't need just to try and get ADS. If you can't get comcast to turn on ADS in an area that has it, you have a communication problem with comcast and acquiring more equipment doesn't solve that.

Here's the problem with blaming the FCC.
I think someone in the MSO propoganda department should be taught a lesson in economics.

The CableCARDs cost around $70 today according to what they charge me if I lose them. That is with what, somewhere between 160-250k cards deployed?

Now doesn't the pricing go down significantly if you now start talking about millions of cards? Any 5-yr old selling lemonade can figure that one out.

Now add in that the CableCARDs aren't really sitting at 75% failure rate as you would be led to believe by some poorly trained installers (need to bring eight cards to find 2 that will work on an S3) and the problems there are with back-end configuration and accounting of the cards.

I will predict when it is all said and done the added cost will be at least 50% less than current $70 pricing. There may be some short term added work for deploying the boxes, but none of this write down the Host/Data/CC ID and call it in over the phone stuff. There will just be barcodes that are scanned in prior to bringing the boxes out.

The point I was trying to make in the first place was that I don't think one should obtain equipment you don't need just to try and get ADS. If you can't get comcast to turn on ADS in an area that has it, you have a communication problem with comcast and acquiring more equipment doesn't solve that.
Why not? You should use whatever works for you.

My friend is in c3's area and wanted to get switched to digital versions on their S3 because they have bad wiring and the analog feed is not too good. They went to the local office, spent 30min and got nowhere (except being pushed to upgrade to higher value packages). They called in twice and Comcast said his area doesn't have digital simulcast and even if they did, they had no way to turn it on for the S3. In frustration he asked me what to do. I had him order the free DCT-700 to be shipped to his doorstep and within minutes he was switched over to digital on the S3s. He thanked me and told me when the DCT-700 arrived he would just drop it off at the local office and be out in 5 minutes and he wished he had done it this way from the start. I think he ended up keeping the DCT-700 for onDemand, but that is besides the point.

I think the point is that you shouldn't need to go through hoops just to get what the CSR should be able to do anyway. They, Comcast, need to figure it out.....

That I would agree with whole-heartedly.

The point I was trying to make in the first place was that I don't think one should obtain equipment you don't need just to try and get ADS. If you can't get comcast to turn on ADS in an area that has it, you have a communication problem with comcast and acquiring more equipment doesn't solve that.

Not true. Comcast uses the reply back from your equipment as a way to determine if you're in an ADS-ready area. So if you put, say, a 3416 in your house, that tells the head-end you're in an ADS-ready area and "flags" your account as ADS. When ADS was first being rolled out, this was essentially the only way to actually activate it. This may have changed over the last few months as more and more areas become ADS-ready...but I believe it's still a valid method of getting your account to be flagged.

Also, I'm not sure how it is on the S3 (since I still don't have my freakin' CC) but on the Moto boxes, recording of a digital channel uses much less space than an analog channel (hence giving you more recording space). So if you have a wife who has seen every Friend's episode 10 times but still feels she needs to record every episode from channel 2, having ADS can really help :D

Based on my friend's experience, the ordering process for the free DCT-700 flagged his account for digital versions even before the DCT-700's were delivered/connected. I don't know if the CSR flagged it manually or it was an automated process so YMMV.

The S3s have 4 quality settings for analog. The lowest quality setting uses less space than ADS, but the rest of them either use similar or more space.

If you can't get comcast to turn on ADS in an area that has it, you have a communication problem with comcast

It's hard to communicate when a Comcast employee doesn't even know the concept of ADS. "You are getting what you're supposed to get" was the response I received.

Anybody know if Cupertino has ADS? I have 2 S3's and 1 S2DT. I am assuming it doesn't affect the Analog Tivo.

Anybody know if Cupertino has ADS? I have 2 S3's and 1 S2DT. I am assuming it doesn't affect the Analog Tivo.
That is correct, it won't affect your analog TiVo.

Sorry, I don't know if Cupertino has ADS.

However if you have a clean analog line, I would suggest you just stick with it. Only switch to ADS if you feel your analog feed is not that good.

In my experience, the chances for recording issues on the ADS is higher than analog. I'm not talking a huge difference, maybe 99.9% reliability on my analog recordings and 97% reliability on the digital ones. By "problems" I mean pixelation, stutter, and other commond digital artifacts. I noticed a few of my recordings had problems when I almost never see problems on the analog recordings that my Replay's are simul-recording.

On a clean analog connection, I actually prefer the analog feed, but any noisy analog connection, I would clearly prefer the digital versions.

It's hard to communicate when a Comcast employee doesn't even know the concept of ADS. "You are getting what you're supposed to get" was the response I received.
Did you escalate the call to a supervisor ?? If the CSR isn't answering your question to your satisfaction then asked to talk to a supervisor that's what they are there for. Don't accept poor service. If you don't complain to the supervisor or explain the situation to a supervisor then nothing gets done to correct the poor service. I would add though, try to be civil, sometimes attitudes get in the way and getting what you want becomes a whole lot more difficult to get. I know it's hard at times but those CSR's aren't as techno savvy as we would like them to be. Just for my edification, did you every get your problem taken care of ??

Laters,
Mikef5

It is my impression "Enhanced" cable is basically standard cable but created for those digital-only customers. It has the exact same channels as standard cable plus one bonus channel (in my area). It is so similar to standard cable that I have concluded it is some accounting placeholder package to keep track of digital vs analog "standard" cable subscribers. Enhanced does cost $1 more per month in many areas. I think they give you Movieplex or some channel like that for your $1. It also comes with 1 free stb, but depending on who you talk to, standard cable did that also.

It doesn't give you any additional HD channels AFAICT. You get what you get before, which is the unencrypted HD channels that you get with standard cable.

You don't get the Digital Classic High Definition Tier, that requires Digital Classic Tier.

Enhanced cable also doesn't affect your Grandfather status.

If you ask for the free DCT-700's they will convert you to Enhanced automatically.

Yes, that is all pretty much as I experienced. Basically "Limited Basic and higher" all gets the same local HD channels at a minimum, any extras are regional and possibly temporary. The real reason the summary post should acknowledge "Digital Starter" (I noticed in my first adjusted paper bill, they renamed Enhanced Cable to this) is in the Costs paragraphs and eligibility requirements for some of the HD add-on services/equipment.

Currently the summary says: "HD-DVR (6412-3412) cost: $4.95 more per month than the standard HD STB. To be eligible to rent the DVR you must have a subscription to Standard Cable and at least Digital Classic--average cost--$57"

Digital Starter/Enhanced Cable at ~$53.50 is now the cheapest guaranteed option to rent the HD-DVR, albeit with less HD channels. You are also guaranteed not to get any hassles if you want to rent an HD set-top box - some have had issues with just analog Limited Basic or Limited + Expanded Basic.

Just thought the additional info would be helpful to people who are considering stepping up to HD with the minimum level of service requirements. The summary was helpful when I was trying to decide, but I really couldn't tell then if the Enhanced Cable was was eligible for HD locals, additional HD channels, an HD set-top box, or a HD-DVR; answers yes, no, yes, yes.

Did you escalate the call to a supervisor ?? If the CSR isn't answering your question to your satisfaction then asked to talk to a supervisor that's what they are there for. Don't accept poor service. If you don't complain to the supervisor or explain the situation to a supervisor then nothing gets done to correct the poor service. I would add though, try to be civil, sometimes attitudes get in the way and getting what you want becomes a whole lot more difficult to get. I know it's hard at times but those CSR's aren't as techno savvy as we would like them to be. Just for my edification, did you every get your problem taken care of ??

Laters,
Mikef5

The problem was not resolved at that time, and I did not escalate it to a supervisor. Since ADS was not really important for me, I just dropped it. After a few months, now I get ADS without asking for it.

The problem was not resolved at that time, and I did not escalate it to a supervisor. Since ADS was not really important for me, I just dropped it. After a few months, now I get ADS without asking for it.
Glad things worked out but you shouldn't have to put up with poor customer service and Comcast needs to know when these things happen or nothing gets done about it. I know for a fact that they do care what customers think. An unhappy customer is the worse kind of advertisement and they get enough bad publicity already without CSR's jerking customers around.

Laters,
Mikef5

The cable cards have been bi-directional all along, it was the choice of the manufacturers to make their hardware uni-directional. Why did the manufacturers not make their products fully compliant with the cable card specs ??? It was cheaper for them to do that or they wanted you to use their interface instead of the cable companies.

"Currently 3rd party CableCARD devices can't get certified by CableLabs for bi-directional (CC 2.0) uses, but it isn't the hardware that is holding up the works, but the standard."

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/15/there-is-no-cablecard-2-0/

"Currently 3rd party CableCARD devices can't get certified by CableLabs for bi-directional (CC 2.0) uses, but it isn't the hardware that is holding up the works, but the standard."

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/15/there-is-no-cablecard-2-0/
Thanks for the link. That's kind of difficult to believe and I need to talk to a tech to find out what the scoop is but if what that article says is true then Comcast's own cable card boxes aren't certified and that is going to be a major problem for them and others as of 1 July. I don't know how you can mandate the use of cable cards without a standard in place and have the ability to get those devices certified under that standard.

Laters,
Mikef5

Yes, that is all pretty much as I experienced. Basically "Limited Basic and higher" all gets the same local HD channels at a minimum, any extras are regional and possibly temporary. The real reason the summary post should acknowledge "Digital Starter" (I noticed in my first adjusted paper bill, they renamed Enhanced Cable to this) is in the Costs paragraphs and eligibility requirements for some of the HD add-on services/equipment.

Currently the summary says: "HD-DVR (6412-3412) cost: $4.95 more per month than the standard HD STB. To be eligible to rent the DVR you must have a subscription to Standard Cable and at least Digital Classic--average cost--$57"

Digital Starter/Enhanced Cable at ~$53.50 is now the cheapest guaranteed option to rent the HD-DVR, albeit with less HD channels. You are also guaranteed not to get any hassles if you want to rent an HD set-top box - some have had issues with just analog Limited Basic or Limited + Expanded Basic.

Just thought the additional info would be helpful to people who are considering stepping up to HD with the minimum level of service requirements. The summary was helpful when I was trying to decide, but I really couldn't tell then if the Enhanced Cable was was eligible for HD locals, additional HD channels, an HD set-top box, or a HD-DVR; answers yes, no, yes, yes.
Is this something that needs to be added to the first post? If so, could someone consolidate it so I can just plug it in? Thanks.

Also, if you post something that needs to be put in the first post make sure it gets my attention, like start the post with "FOR THE FIRST POST", or something like that. :p

Ok, I re-read the article and it's talking about 3rd party devices not cable company devices so this doesn't seem to affect cable companies. But like I said I need to talk to a tech to get the real scoop on this.

Laters,
Mikef5

Ok, I re-read the article and it's talking about 3rd party devices not cable company devices so this doesn't seem to affect cable companies. But like I said I need to talk to a tech to get the real scoop on this.

Laters,
Mikef5

There's a good discussion going on here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10789986&&#post10789986) regarding this. MikeSM has some good info regarding how the Moto boxes can achieve bi-directional communication using the DOCSIS modem to securely send data back.

EDIT: URL fixed

There's a good discussion going on here (http://http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10789986&&#post10789986) regarding this. MikeSM has some good info regarding how the Moto boxes can achieve bi-directional communication using the DOCSIS modem to securely send data back.
Fender,
I'm having a problem with your link, says it can't find the server ?????

Laters,
Mikef5

Too many http's...fixed in original post.

Too many http's...fixed in original post.
Ok, now I see how the cable companies are going to get around that little problem but it's going to suck for Tivo users. If what MikeSM says is correct and it makes sense I don't see how 3rd parties are going to ever get certified. I guess no S3 for me on Father's Day :p ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I don't know how you can mandate the use of cable cards without a standard in place and have the ability to get those devices certified under that standard.This is basically my problem with the whole thing.

CC 1.0 sucks, and is basically dead already. Everyone is waiting for CC 2.0 (except cableco's who wish the whole thing would die). Yet the FCC sets a date of July 1st 2007 and forces cableco's to deploy CC boxes (CC 1.0) which doesn't do ANYONE any good, least of all the consumer (who the FCC is supposed to be representing, and advocating for) who now has to absorb the extra costs in the form of higher cable TV bills.'

Great idea.

This is basically my problem with the whole thing.

CC 1.0 sucks, and is basically dead already. Everyone is waiting for CC 2.0 (except cableco's who wish the whole thing would die). Yet the FCC sets a date of July 1st 2007 and forces cableco's to deploy CC boxes (CC 1.0) which doesn't do ANYONE any good, least of all the consumer (who the FCC is supposed to be representing, and advocating for) who now has to absorb the extra costs in the form of higher cable TV bills.'

Great idea.
Walk,
Read Fenders link, it's got a good source of information on this and MikeSM use to work for the cable industry and has a good insight on what's going on.

Laters,
Mikef5

Yet the FCC sets a date of July 1st 2007 and forces cableco's to deploy CC boxes (CC 1.0)

FCC is not forcing anyone to deploy CC 1.0. Cable companies' boxes will be 2.0.

Why not? You should use whatever works for you.
To prevent waste. I'd rather not have to accept some electronics I don't even want, then have to deal with disposing of it, just to work around a social problem with CSRs. Since you're not even supposed to throw such things in the trash, I'd have to figure out how to recycle it or somesuch. Easier to escalate with the CSRs until you get one who knows about ADS I should think. I would feel much better schooling a CSR than wasting some more electronics as well. I already have a stack of unwanted STBoxes I don't know what to do with:)