This thread continued from...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=357896

Thank you.

(Copy of First Post)

San Francisco Bay Area Comcast Information
============================================================ ==============

This thread contains posts regarding Comcast HDTV service in the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose Bay Area. (This covers San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Sonoma, and Napa counties.)

For Solano County see note below.

To summarize status as of August, 2006:

HD Channels:

Note: Not all channels are available everywhere. Check with your local Comcast office, or better yet, post the question here as you will get the most accurate, up to date, information from this group. Having a location/city in your profile helps tremendously.

702 KTVU-DT (FOX) 720p & DD 5.1
703 KNTV-DT (NBC) 1080i & DD 5.1
704 KRON-DT (MyTV) 1080i
705 KPIX-DT (CBS) 1080i & DD 5.1
707 KGO-DT (ABC) 720p & DD 5.1
709 KQED-DT (PBS) (on air 8 p.m. to 6 a.m.) 1080i & DD 5.1

719 INHD (encrypted in most areas) 1080i
720 INHD2 (encrypted in most areas) 1080i (FSNBA-HD see note below)

FSN Bay Area HD (some Warriors, A's and Giants games inserted onto 720, pre-empting INHD2 programming) FSN Bay Area Website-- HD Schedule (http://fsnbayarea.com/FSNHD.jsp)

722 Discovery HD Theater 1080i & DD 5.1
723 ESPN HD (encrypted in most areas) 720p & DD 5.1
725 ESPN2 HD (encrypted) 720p & DD 5.1
HD Special Events
-- NFL Channel HD (NFL Game of the Week, Weds. and Thurs. Evenings)
-- INHD programming (third INHD feed) whenever NBA game is on INHD
-- Other HD programming TBA

730 HBO HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1
732 Cinemax HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1
734 Starz HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1
736 Showtime HD West (encrypted) 1080i & DD 5.1

Note re encryption: This varies from one head end to the next. Some premiums and/or ESPN HD and/or InHD may be unencrypted in your area, but that will change as soon as Comcast gets all the necessary equipment to encrypt. Only the local HD channels will be "in the clear" once all the head ends have the proper equipment.

Note re ADS: ADS, or Analog-Digital Simulcasting, is when the analog channels are duplicated as digital subchannels. This allows for cheaper, smaller digital boxes as the analog tuner is not needed. ADS also eliminates the need for MPEG encoders in the DVR's. The primary advantage is the elimination of interference typically associated with analog signals.

Most 750/850MHz systems in the Bay Area have implemented ADS. The surest way of obtaining the digital versions of the analog channels is to incorporate at least one Motorola 3412 STB in your household. Once the headend receives the signal that you're in an "ADS-ready" area, your other STB's will automatically start using the digital channels. To find out if you're receiving the digital channels, tune both of your tuners to channel 2, go in to the diagnostics menu, and go to "d06 CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS". If both tuners say 'QAM 256" then you're receiving the digital version of the channel. If they say "Analog" then you are receiving the analog version of the channel.

Note re 550 Mhz systems: Not all (or any) HD channels may be available in some Bay Area systems because they are not yet "rebuilt" to either 750 mHz or 860 mHz and thus have less bandwidth to devote to HDTV. As it stands August 2006, there doesn't appear to be any plans to upgrade these systems to bring parity with the rest of the SF bay area. The prevailing assumption is that as we move closer to the analog OTA shutdown date, Comcast will be moving analog channels to digital, and thus, freeing up bandwidth for more channels and services on these systems. This looks to be a long and slow process covering years so don't expect anything new to appear on these systems anytime soon. On these systems you will NOT get: INHD*, INHD2,* FSN Bay Area HD*, Showtime HD, KRON HD and/or HD Special Events among others depending on the particular system.

But, you will pay the same rates as subscribers who do receive the full complement of channels and services. This is an inequity that Comcast, to date, has not addressed and continues to remain silent on.

These systems are located in, among other areas,

Antioch
Hayward
Los Gatos
Milpitas
Pittsburg
San Leandro
San Lorenzo
Santa Rosa
Saratoga
Sunnyvale(parts)
Vallejo

* INHD and INHD2 are available in areas of Saratoga, Milpitas and Los Gatos even though these are primarily 550 Mhz systems.

Note: Solano County. Information obtained from Comcast subscriber heyjjjaded in Vacaville.

1. Our local HD channels are all out of Sacramento
2. Unlike Sacramento though, all of our HD channels are in the 700's (the way they are in San Francisco)
3. We get standard network non-HD channels (NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox) from both Sacramento & San Francisco
4. The 800 telephone number on our Comcast brochure puts us through to the bay area
5. Our HD problems (break-ups, audio-drops, failure to switch from INHD2 to FSN HD) almost always coincide with the same problems reported by the Sacramento customers

For further Sacramento information, see the Sacramento Comcast Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8175752#post8175752)


HD Capable Set Top Box/Firmware:

Motorola 5100 and Motorola 6200

The 6200 has a faster processor and two firewire (IEEE 1394) ports.

Firmware 7.15 (7.10 in some areas). DVI and Firewire are activated with both versions but are more stable and user friendly with 7.15.

Current software is 51.88-2002.

See the rest of the thread, below, or the 5100/6200 thread in the HDTV Hardware forum for more specific information.

HD-DVR/Software:

Motorola 6412-- first became available in December 2004. (6208 was originally projected to be available November/December 2003). Costs extra $9.95 per month (or $4.95 per month more than a non-DVR HD STB rental from Comcast) above what you are otherwise paying for now.

Software for the HD DVR the iGuide, by Guideworks, a joint venture of Comcast and Gemstar-TV Guide. Software for all other HD boxes will eventually be the iGuide but has not yet been downloaded to them as of February 17, 2005.

Current firmware version for the 6412:

Current software version for the 6412: 71.44 1203 (revision should be coming in the next couple of months)


Motorola 6412 PIII--same as 6412 listed above but has HDMI video output vs DVI for the above 6412.

Current firmware version for the 6412-PIII: 12.31


Motorola 3412--same as 6412 PIII only it has no analog tuner. The 3412 is a digital-only DVR and can be used only on systems where ADS has been implemented.

Current firmware version for the 3412: 12.22


Costs:

Limited basic cable, which is required for all subscriptions, ranges from $9 to $17 per month depending on your area. HD STB rental (non-DVR) is $5 per month. To get INHD and ESPN HD, if encrypted, you need Digital Classic tier at $9.95 per month. Premium HD channels, if encrypted, are received with any a la carte or package subscription that includes the SD versions of those channels.

HD-DVR (6412-3412) cost: $4.95 more per month than the standard HD STB. To be eligible to rent the DVR you must have a subscription to Standard Cable and at least Digital Classic--average cost--$57

Note: All the above prices prices and packages will vary somewhat from area to area, check with others in your location and/or contact the local Comcast office that serves your area.


I will update this summary as information changes. If anyone has different or updated information to the above, please post it to this thread and I will incorporate it.

What happened????? Did it get too big??

Nothing...But when threads start to get real large that can actually hurt the site in performance. Thanks

Darn, composed a message and couldn't send it. Will try again.

Thanks to all who replied regarding signal strength and use of splitters/amplifiers.
I'll probably wait till it warms up a bit before tackling the task of running another RG6 line.

BTW, what is the range required on a splitter for use in a cableTV, cable/internet setup?

Does anyone know why KQED-HD does not carry Masterpiece Theatre in HD? They just started up a new season with a BBC co-production of Jane Eyre, and it seems only to run on the SD channel. I know there isn't much overlap between the SD and HD broadcasting, but it seems bizarre to me that PBS wouldn't run an HD feed of their premiere show.

Nothing...But when threads start to get real large that can actually hurt the site in performance. Thanks

Gotcha. Thanks!

Does anyone know why KQED-HD does not carry Masterpiece Theatre in HD?Uh...$$$?

this post exists only so i can have a dot on this new thread icon.

btw is our local thread the most popular in terms of views and replies?

Does anyone know how the Motorola HD cable boxes provided by Comcast handle 1080i to 720p conversion? Do they deinterlace 1080i and then scale to 720p, or do they convert it to 540p and then scale to 720p?

The reason I'm asking is that we have a Panasonic 50" plasma (768p) and I've set the Comcast tuner to output HD at 720p, mostly because we watch a lot of sports on ABC, Fox, ESPN, etc. These networks look great, but, the 1080i networks (CBS, NBC, etc.) look a bit soft at times. The picture for these channels seems to improve a bit if I switch to 1080i output, but switching back-and-forth is a PITA. I wish the Motorola boxes had a pass-through mode.

-Steve

btw is our local thread the most popular in terms of views and replies?

We were third in terms of replies (behind "St Louis, MO - HDTV" and "Denver, CO - OTA") and second in terms of views (behind the Denver thread). Looks like all of these, and a few more, got similar treatment to alleviate load on the servers.

Are you sure this includes the games on INHD? Or is it just the Extra Innings package? The big difference between the NFL and MLB is that MLB games are, for the most part, shown on local stations...not national broadcast stations (with the exception of some ESPN games an FOX games on Saturday). This is what allows Superstations to broadcast nationally from their home territory. All of this on top of the Extra Innings package. While I could see D* getting an exclusive on the Extra Innings package (as stupid as that is), I don't see them taking games off the Superstations, and possibly INHD. I think the term "exclusivity" is used differently between MLB and NFL (at least I hope so).
As far as I can tell, it's just for MLBEI games. No more EI on INHD or Dish, or whoever else carried them, only DirecTV. Although, the scuttlebutt seems to be that Congress may have something to say about, I don't know what they could possibly do though, this is no different from Sunday Ticket with the NFL.

I guess I should be glad that we got FSNBA-HD up here instead of INHD, I hear that INHD puts up a big bug on their movies and don't adhere much to OAR either.

Darn, composed a message and couldn't send it. Will try again.

Thanks to all who replied regarding signal strength and use of splitters/amplifiers.
I'll probably wait till it warms up a bit before tackling the task of running another RG6 line.

BTW, what is the range required on a splitter for use in a cableTV, cable/internet setup?
I would make sure it's good out to at least 1GHz.

Like these for example,

http://www.yourbroadbandstore.com/product.php?pid=209661
Buy 2-Way Cable Splitters for Cable TV at YourBroadbandStore.com

Grandude,
You can also go down to your local Comcast store and get a splitter or two. I even picked up a 3-way down at my store.

Uh...$$$?

What dollars are you thinking about? They seem to show any number of series on KQED-HD that were shot on film and converted to HD (no doubt by PBS on a national basis). Why wouldn't they do that with their showcase product, Masterpiece Theatre?

To ask the question another way, is this a KQED issue or a PBS issue nationwide? Wait, I'll answer my own question. Google reveals an Oregon public broadcasting site listing an HDTV broadcast of the show. Of course, it could be an HD transmission of a 4:3 SD signal, I dunno . . . .

I would make sure it's good out to at least 1GHz.
Like these for example,
http://www.yourbroadbandstore.com/product.php?pid=209661
Buy 2-Way Cable Splitters for Cable TV at YourBroadbandStore.com

I decided to try one I had here already, somewhere in the 900 to 2050 range. I was worried that the low end would be too high but apparently not.

Ran a temporary cable from the next room which had an existing outlet to hook up and ran a scan on my LG 37LC2D and it found 345 stations. WOW. I'm on the Healdsburg cable system here in far north Santa Rosa which is a newer system.

Going through the channels it found, I discovered that it found all the scrambled ones which I can't view, of course, and many music/no video channels. I spent over an hour trying to delete the channels I don't want, but it never showed the scrambled ones in the delete menu.

Anyway, the results were so successful that I will now run a permanent cable to the proper location when the weather improves and I get a 'round tuit'.

Thanks again for all the good info.

about how many times can the cable be split off before bad signal loss is noticed? i'll have to look whether there's a booster on the lines but it's split a few times under the house and then again in the house too. So far most things "seem" ok. would it make a diff to run a dedicated cable for the vonage?

wendek

about how many times can the cable be split off before bad signal loss is noticed? i'll have to look whether there's a booster on the lines but it's split a few times under the house and then again in the house too. So far most things "seem" ok. would it make a diff to run a dedicated cable for the vonage?

wendek

What are you trying to fix? You say "so far most things 'seem' OK." Are you trying to get a better signal?

Does anyone know how the Motorola HD cable boxes provided by Comcast handle 1080i to 720p conversion? Do they deinterlace 1080i and then scale to 720p, or do they convert it to 540p and then scale to 720p?

The reason I'm asking is that we have a Panasonic 50" plasma (768p) and I've set the Comcast tuner to output HD at 720p, mostly because we watch a lot of sports on ABC, Fox, ESPN, etc. These networks look great, but, the 1080i networks (CBS, NBC, etc.) look a bit soft at times. The picture for these channels seems to improve a bit if I switch to 1080i output, but switching back-and-forth is a PITA. I wish the Motorola boxes had a pass-through mode. I don't know what goes on exactly, but I have noticed that the output (of 1080i channels) looks better with the box set to 1080i. I have a small LCD in the bedroom, and I've tried it with my friend's new 50" plasma as well. Maybe those extra few pixels really make a difference (1366x768 vs 1280x720) or maybe the Moto box just sucks at conversion...

(I have a 1080i CRT in the living room, which naturally looks better set on 1080i for everything).

With the onslaught of HDHomeRun, My-HD, Fusion, OCUR, QAM Tuners on New TVS...

How long will Comcast continue to leave the broadcast channels in the clear?

Everyone refers to the FCC regulations and they have to keep it in the clear, but from what I understood, it's a must carry rule, not a must carry in the clear rule...

I subscribe to Basic Cable with HD and I pay for an extra HD box. But I have 2 HD cards and am adding an HDHomeRun device... I prefer QAM to OTA, because it's just more consistant, but I'm worried that relying on Comcast to keep the channels in the clear might be short sighted.

I was wondering if anyone had any information for the Bay Area that indicated that Comcast would never be encrypting those channels?

Just wondering.

Russ

about how many times can the cable be split off before bad signal loss is noticed? i'll have to look whether there's a booster on the lines but it's split a few times under the house and then again in the house too. So far most things "seem" ok. would it make a diff to run a dedicated cable for the vonage?

wendek

I've got a lot of splits in my line, but I also put in that motorola signal booster/splitter to the main run that comes into my house. Before I added the booster, I had some signal quality issues on some of the splits furthest down the line, but now everything seems to be good enough for me to tune everything. As for the quality, not sure, but I haven't been getting any drops or anything.

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/

From the signal booster, that output cable is then split at least 3 times. Then each of those splits are probably split at least 3 or more times down the way.

So from one cable into my house I feed 6 rooms. Then in one room, it's split at least 4 more times (cable box, TV, and 2 HD tuners on the HTPC, will be split more once I add the HDHomeRun to that). In two of the rooms, it's split at least twice (one for the TV and one for a Tivo and HTPC).

I was wondering if anyone had any information for the Bay Area that indicated that Comcast would never be encrypting those channels?

Just wondering.

Russ
Never is a long time. The last I was told about this, was that the channels will remain like they are, locals will not be encrypted. I take them at their word. Can they encrypt the locals ?? Yes, it's their cable system. Will they ?? I wouldn't expect them to do it any time soon if ever but with new technology coming down the road, like Switched Video, it could be a thing of the past.

Laters,
Mikef5

Everyone refers to the FCC regulations and they have to keep it in the clear, but from what I understood, it's a must carry rule, not a must carry in the clear rule...
The must-carry rules also state it must be included in a "basic-tier". Definition of basic-tier includes not being encrypted.

The contention for *some* cable companies (not Comcast) is whether must-carry applies to:

1) analog only
2) analog *and* digital
3) analog *or* digital, but not necessarily both

That was my understanding from a while back of why some cable companies encrypt the locals and others don't. I don't follow the issue that closely so maybe this has been clarified in further FCC rulings, so please feel free to correct me.

Definition of basic-tier includes not being encrypted.

Can you elaborate on this portion? What implies that basic-tier includes not being encrypted?

I can see the point of analog and/or digital debate. I'm hoping it's "AND", especially since everything is supposed to be moving to digital. So as long as they keep the broadcast channels in the basic tier, that makes sense. Otherwise, all my HD cards and tuners are worth nothing for QAM.

The question really comes down to: Will the cable company prevent me from receiving this basic tier with other devices except their own?

So say fast foward to 2009 or 2010 and everything has moved to digital as supposedly mandated... no more analog broadcasts, all those analog tv's are outdated (good bye to my hauppauge cards and Tivo Series 2), you will either need a digital TV with an antenna or a TV and a cable box. Would the cable companies allow digital TV with out a cable box (unencrypted) to tune that basic tier again? Obviously paid for via comcast subscription.

Just wondering if I'm putting money in technology that Comcast could render useless by flipping the switch. I some what think we're lucky here in the bay area, because our digital broadcast channels are unencrypted, but I look at the Tivo Series 3 thread and these other threads and lots of places have them encrypted, thus requiring cable card for Series 3 and making these other tuners useless for QAM.

I tend to think that Comcast will continue to provide the local HD in the clear for quite some time to come. Although, with nets like CBS coming up for contract, and the fact that they have stated very clearly that they want a "substantial" amount of cash for their signals, who knows how the cable companies will handle that. They may provide an analog version of the net's signal while charging for the digital signal.

Either that, or the cost of Basic Cable will probably raise in price, something that will probably happen anyways with state awarded franchises with local control being out of the picture.

OTOH, cable companies are getting a lot of heat from Congress on the skyrocketing cost of cable so who knows what will happen.

So say fast foward to 2009 or 2010 and everything has moved to digital as supposedly mandated... no more analog broadcasts, all those analog tv's are outdated (good bye to my hauppauge cards and Tivo Series 2), you will either need a digital TV with an antenna or a TV and a cable box.
You can just about take to the bank that the cablecos will still provide some analog signals past the OTA analog cutoff.

You can just about take to the bank that the cablecos will still provide some analog signals past the OTA analog cutoff.
Comcasts CEO has already stated that they will be providing a limited number of analog channels to some areas well past the 2009 analog drop dead date, by reconverting the digital signal to analog or paying big bucks to the stations for an analog feed. The drop dead date is for over the air broadcasting of the analog signal and does not apply to cable.

But if they go to a switched video system, which to me makes a whole lot of sense, I don't know if they would provide an analog channel or not. In theory it shouldn't matter, in a switched video system, if the channel is analog or digital. The whole reason for going to all digital is to free up the wasted bandwidth that analog takes up and to add more digital content. I think that analog will go the way of the dinosaurs and a lot sooner than most people think. Bandwidth is tight even in areas that are upgraded and analog is just wasting space, it makes good business sense to get rid of analog.

Laters,
Mikef5

it makes good business sense to get rid of analog.

Laters,
Mikef5
Well, it depends on how much it will cost, with at least 50% of cable subs still analog only, that's a huge expenditure to supply all those TVs with converters, for what would have to be next to nothing, It may be cheaper to continue to supply the basic 30 or so channels for the next 10 years or so in analog versus the expense of converters for subs who only pay around $18 a month, or less, to begin with.

Well, it depends on how much it will cost, with at least 50% of cable subs still analog only, that's a huge expenditure to supply all those TVs with converters, for what would have to be next to nothing, It may be cheaper to continue to supply the basic 30 or so channels for the next 10 years or so in analog versus the expense of converters for subs who only pay around $18 a month, or less, to begin with.
Well, the problem with that is that if you can't add content, because there isn't enough bandwidth to do that, then the cable company will never get a greater revenue in that area, you are basically stagnated with what you have now and will never see anything else. The business is profit at the least cost to you. Analog is stopping you from adding content, without adding content how do you justify increasing prices without driving customers away because they don't get what they can get from another source at the same or lower price ?? You are seeing that Comcast has realized that they have to upgrade all the areas it serves or lose those customers in that area, think 550 MHz areas. The Sat companies and the other providers like Version and AT&T will take advantage of that situation and gain a foothold in the cable areas that are not getting what they are paying for.

It's time people get over this fixation with analog and move into the digital age. They are already thinking of having tv manufacturers put warning labels on all new analog tvs letting people know that they will need a converter box to get over the air signals after 2009. If you look further down the line at what the cable industry is thinking about using to help with this dwindling bandwidth, like switched video, everyone that has cable will have to have a box, just like the Sat companies do now. If you think you can go somewhere else to get analog then where are you going to go. All the Sat companies require that you have a box, AT&T requires that you have a box ( not sure about Version but we're not in their area ) so there's no place to go. This is going to happen eventually, already switched video is being used in a couple of areas back East, so it's not if this is going to happen but when.

Laters,
Mikef5

... 'cause the apocalypse must be near: FSN-HD is up in Sunnyvale!!! I never thought I'd see the day :p

... 'cause the apocalypse must be near: FSN-HD is up in Sunnyvale!!! I never thought I'd see the day :p
Hell muthafuggin' yeah!! I can't wait to watch the Ws play in HD.

Great news about FSN-HD in Sunnyvale! Anyone out there getting it to show up on their S3 Tivo Program Guide?

On that same note: Anyone using a cable card getting this with Limited Basic + Digital Classic? :D

I don't know what goes on exactly, but I have noticed that the output (of 1080i channels) looks better with the box set to 1080i. I have a small LCD in the bedroom, and I've tried it with my friend's new 50" plasma as well. Maybe those extra few pixels really make a difference (1366x768 vs 1280x720) or maybe the Moto box just sucks at conversion...

(I have a 1080i CRT in the living room, which naturally looks better set on 1080i for everything).

Walk,
Thanks for the reply. I think most of what I'm seeing is variability in the quality of programs. Some 1080i programming actually looks pretty good when output at 720p, while other shows on the same network appear a bit soft. In any case, live sports definitely looks best on the networks broadcasting at 720p.

-Steve

It's time people get over this fixation with analog and move into the digital age. They are already thinking of having tv manufacturers put warning labels on all new analog tvs letting people know that they will need a converter box to get over the air signals after 2009.I just bought a Sony DVD Recorder, and there was a note (either a separate note inside the box or part of the manual) that said that a digital converter would be needed to record with the tuner starting in 2009.

-- Don

I got my bill the other day, the first one with the price increase and I often wonder why I am paying so much for diversion? I think the model for the future is existing broadcast channels and VOD and that VOD a very open format not the limited one offered now. IOW, if anyone here had some content they wanted to make available then one puts up a web site and the content on a server which can handle VOD and takes care of the charges Comcast taps into this and takes a portion of the fee. BTW, the web site is something that is displayed via the STB not something seperate you need a computer for.

I would love this as movies and content that does not have a vast market can finally get distribution. I'm sure this is a logical model that Comcast and other VOD have been looking at. The only fly in the ointment to keep this from happening is the Hollywood stuffed shirts that want to control media and keep competition out. The arts belong to the people not the fat heads.

It may be cheaper to continue to supply the basic 30 or so channels for the next 10 years or so in analog versus the expense of converters for subs who only pay around $18 a month, or less, to begin with.
Along those lines if they went with a 30 channel analog lineup, that would free up bandwidth for rougly 100-150 HD channels.

Eventually cable will be all digital, there is no argument there. The question is whether this is a gradual transition or some abrupt event. There are folks on both sides and a case can be made either way.

Along those lines if they went with a 30 channel analog lineup, that would free up bandwidth for rougly 100-150 HD channels.

Eventually cable will be all digital, there is no argument there. The question is whether this is a gradual transition or some abrupt event. There are folks on both sides and a case can be made either way.
Definitely, a 30 channel analog lineup is not such a bad thing for us digital fans, 40 or so analog slots can provide a lot of room for HD, more room than there is HD channels today, or even probably by the end of the year.

As you note, there is logical speculation on both sides, my money is on there being 30 basic cable analogs well past 2010, there's just way too many folks out there with analog sets that a cable company does not want to disenfranchise.

This is going to happen eventually, already switched video is being used in a couple of areas back East, so it's not if this is going to happen but when.

Laters,
Mikef5
I agree, it's going to happen eventually. IMO, it's going to happen later rather than sooner. As far as boxes go, don't think that that isn't a significant selling point for cable versus the satcos, plug the cable into your TV, call the cable company, bingo, you have cable TV. Not so with sat.

Great news about FSN-HD in Sunnyvale! Anyone out there getting it to show up on their S3 Tivo Program Guide?

On that same note: Anyone using a cable card getting this with Limited Basic + Digital Classic? :D

I'll certainly check my S3 tonight :)

It hasn't appeared on my line-up on TiVo Central Online. I wonder how long it takes TiVo to update the lineup, or if we can speed that up if it hasn't happened yet by calling their CS. I just want to make sure I can record Tuesday's Sharks/Stars game in HD, since I'll be traveling to Home Depot to get some locust repellant. :D

On a related TiVo S3/CableCad note, just got a message last night to call Comcast (or their subcontractor) to give them CableCard info for pairing those to my TiVo. I was wondering if they'd ever call.

sorry for off topic, but i'm not getting any response on the ota thread. i'm in los gatos near lark and winchester. anyone in the area been sucessful in picking up all local hd broadcasts with attic antannae. if so what kind, and how hard was it to set up.
thanks

Here's an article about SDV and Comcast's plans:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6410009.html?display=Breaking+News

As a TiVo S3 owner many are finding it worrisome, TiVo Community discussion here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=338196).

Here's an article about SDV and Comcast's plans:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6410009.html?display=Breaking+News

As a TiVo S3 owner many are finding it worrisome, TiVo Community discussion here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=338196).

Yeah, that's a little worrisome for S3 owners, although I really don't think this will be widespread for at least 2-3 years. Are there any cable systems in the US who are actively using switched video right now? If so, how does the S# interact with those environments?

Yeah, that's a little worrisome for S3 owners, although I really don't think this will be widespread for at least 2-3 years. Are there any cable systems in the US who are actively using switched video right now? If so, how does the S# interact with those environments?
Yes, Cablevision is using Switched Video in it's system now. Comcast is in trials in 2 markets and is saying they will deploy it in the 2nd half of this year. How wide spread that initial deployment will be is yet to be determined but it's coming a lot sooner than I had initially thought.

Laters,
Mikef5

Yes, Cablevision is using Switched Video in it's system now. Comcast is in trials in 2 markets and is saying they will deploy it in the 2nd half of this year. How wide spread that initial deployment will be is yet to be determined but it's coming a lot sooner than I had initially thought.

Laters,
Mikef5

Switched video makes a lot of sense for niche channels. Get those out of the bandwidth makes room for more mainstream & HD.

Some light reading from Light Reading :) about the new DCH boxes from Motorola, seems Comcast will be using these boxes. They have a feature called " follow-me " which is a great feature, sort of a home network box. They are also the first boxes to use cable cards.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=114299&print=true

Laters,
Mikef5

Switched video makes a lot of sense for niche channels. Get those out of the bandwidth makes room for more mainstream & HD.
Can they do a hybrid system like that or does the system have to be all switched ?? Nice to see you out and about Dave :p

Laters,
Mikef5

Can they do a hybrid system like that or does the system have to be all switched ?? Nice to see you out and about Dave :p

Laters,
Mikef5

dunno really. To me, it looks like nothing more than full time On Demand.

Look at what is on the DCTs now: analog channels re-digitized, digital channels, VOD streams, local FM radio stations & legacy pay per view. Coax is amazing, anything that can be done with twisted pair can be done so much better on coax.

I saw those new Moto boxes at CES (cable card slot is in the back):
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/barovelli/boxes.jpg

Also saw the UI on them (and the follow me feature)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/barovelli/guide.jpg

Then I saw a Motorola booth babe's hand in front of the camera. Oops!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/barovelli/motohand.jpg

Check out MoCa for some interesting developments in home networking. And check out the logos listed in "Board of Directors". This may be the magic behind 'follow me'..
http://www.mocalliance.org/

Then I saw a Motorola booth babe's hand in front of the camera. Oops!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4...li/motohand.jpg

Nice looking hand :p Was there a body with that hand ???
From what I've garnered from my readings, this Switched Video is Video on Demand all the time and it seems the only upgrades needed are in the head-end equipment, not sure if existing boxes could be used or not but I'd rather have those new boxes anyways. That follow me feature would be nice. You wouldn't happen to have the specs on those boxes do you ??

Laters,
Mikef5

Anyone know if we'll be getting UFC 67 in HD next Saturday? I was hearing rumors that it may be on the HD-Special Events channel.

And check out the logos listed in "Board of Directors". Wow, and right up at the top too.... :)

Charles Cerino
Vice president of New Services Technology
Comcast New Media Development

Looks like that Moca system can do quite a lot, server box using existing cable to communicate with other boxes on the cable, sounds like the promised Home Networking system.

Laters,
Mikef5

Switched video makes a lot of sense for niche channels. Get those out of the bandwidth makes room for more mainstream & HD.
Is switched video something that can run on top of existing infrastructure, where you can select some less popular channels to be delivered via switched video and leave the more popular ones at their normal semi-fixed locations, or is it something where you have to go all switched video or none?

The reason I ask is for compatibility of CableCARD devices like S3 which do not handle switched video. If it is just the less popular channels then I think many people would not be affected nearly as much.

I'll certainly check my S3 tonight :)

It hasn't appeared on my line-up on TiVo Central Online. I wonder how long it takes TiVo to update the lineup, or if we can speed that up if it hasn't happened yet by calling their CS.You can file a line up report on the web site, there's tech article pointing to that at http://tivo.com/lineup .

For UHD, TiVo didn't seem to notice until I poked them.

Those new boxes look nice too. Would blend in nicely with my PS3 8)

Here's an article about SDV and Comcast's plans:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6410009.html?display=Breaking+News

As a TiVo S3 owner many are finding it worrisome, TiVo Community discussion here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=338196).
I would fully expect SDV to be used on the less popular channels, it makes no sense to use it with the channels the majority of people watch, networks channels being at the top of that list, with maybe premiums right behind them along with the popular cablenets.

702 KTVU-DT (FOX) 720p & DD 5.1
703 KNTV-DT (NBC) 1080i & DD 5.1
704 KRON-DT (MyTV) 1080i
705 KPIX-DT (CBS) 1080i & DD 5.1
707 KGO-DT (ABC) 720p & DD 5.1
709 KQED-DT (PBS) (on air 8 p.m. to 6 a.m.) 1080i & DD 5.1


I have an S3 Tivo with no cablecards (yet...?). I have no HDTV yet either, so this is just me playing with the digital channesl so far (esp since I can't use Tivo functionality without the cards)..

anyway, is there some other info in another thread about the "regular" numbers for these channels?

In other words, I know that Fox is 2-1 cable, CBS is 5-1, etc.. The one I couldn't find was NBC, which someone else told me is 84-1.

So I'm wondering if there are others I'm missing. I'll try those channels when I get home, but I don't think they'll work.

Nice looking hand :p Was there a body with that hand ???

Yup. With an authoritative voice, too. She said "No Pictures". I waited until someone else in the crowd to whipped out a camera, but I was the one who got caught. :cool:

The AMD/ATI booth dude with the digital cable tuner cards was generous to picture takers.

On that subject, C* has produced a training video for techs that have to install cable cards in Media Center PCs. I thought it was very good at explaining the process and some key words to look out for. There was a lesson on just what a MCE PC is and what it does, then it goes on to show installation one and two cable cards in expansion cards, and in the external ATI USB tuner.

Expansion card Media Center
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/barovelli/atipci.jpg

External tuner
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/barovelli/atiusb.jpg

So - how did I miss anyone from this thread at the AVS Hollywood party? I tried to stand out (that aint hard for a 6'6" person), talked with a few other people, but no names that I knew. Even had my picture taken with Celine, Whoopi, Brittney & Prince. :cool: :cool:

Can you elaborate on this portion? What implies that basic-tier includes not being encrypted?
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/47cfr76.630.htm

Is this explicit enough? :)
Sec. 76.630 Compatibility with consumer electronics equipment.

(a) Cable system operators shall not scramble or otherwise encrypt
signals carried on the basic service tier. Requests for waivers of this
prohibition must demonstrate either a substantial problem with theft of
basic tier service or a strong need to scramble basic signals for other
reasons. As part of this showing, cable operators are required to notify
subscribers by mail of waiver requests. The notice to subscribers must
be mailed no later than thirty calendar days from the date the request
waiver was filed with the Commission, and cable operators must inform
the Commission in writing, as soon as possible, of that notification
date. The notification to subscribers must state:

But the digital channel is different from the analog channel, so technically it's not a signal "on the basic service tier".

Hi,

I live in San Francisco where we have Comcast. I recently got an HD Tuner for my computer (Maglia TV Mini HD), but I can't seem to get many channels. I let the tuner software (EyeTV2) scan for all the cable channels for unencrypted channels (Clear QAM) and it came up with 215 channels. I flipped through all 215 channels to identify them, but none of them are local channels which I really want. I'm only getting some PBS, home shopping, and government channels along with a few I could not tell (but they weren't local channels). I tried the auto-scan several times, but ended up with the same 215 channels.

Am I missing something? I thought Comcast was broadcasting the local channels in HD through basic cable? I can't use the antenna because my reception sucks here. I could only get 2 stations (PBS stations) via ATSC.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, Phil

I'm now getting 720 for FSN HD in Sunnyvale, but am only getting a 3D logo and no programming yet. The logo looks pretty cool in HD, but I'm itchin' for the sports. I'm going to call Comcast and ask what's up. Is the programming not yet available, and is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Thanks, Randy

I'm now getting 720 for FSN HD in Sunnyvale, but am only getting a 3D logo and no programming yet. The logo looks pretty cool in HD, but I'm itchin' for the sports. I'm going to call Comcast and ask what's up. Is the programming not yet available, and is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? Thanks, Randy

FSN-HD pretty much only broadcasts during live events (i.e. Sharks, Warriors, A's, and Giants). During off-times they just show the logo.

But the digital channel is different from the analog channel, so technically it's not a signal "on the basic service tier".
You need to read the attached post to understand what Russ and I were talking about. *If* must-carry applies to the OTA digital rebroadcast on Comcast, then it is in the basic tier. *Whether* must-carry applies is what some (not Comcast) feel is in contention. Comcast has been treating HD locals as must-carry and basic tier. If someone wants to clarify further FCC statements in this area, feel free to do so. I remember a while back, FCC agenda included clarification on digital must-carry, but it was mysteriously pulled from the agenda w/o further explanation. That's when I stopped paying attention.

Russ basically said HD locals are must-carry but where does it say they have to be unencrypted.

I replied that must-carry implies basic tier and basic tier by definition is not encrypted. I also said must-carry for digital is a point of contention for some.

Russ then asked where does it say basic tier cannot be encrypted, which is the post you read and replied to out of context.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9580561&&#post9580561
The must-carry rules also state it must be included in a "basic-tier". Definition of basic-tier includes not being encrypted.

The contention for *some* cable companies (not Comcast) is whether must-carry applies to:

1) analog only
2) analog *and* digital
3) analog *or* digital, but not necessarily both

That was my understanding from a while back of why some cable companies encrypt the locals and others don't. I don't follow the issue that closely so maybe this has been clarified in further FCC rulings, so please feel free to correct me.

Comcast has been treating HD locals as must-carry and basic tier.

Well, they aren't entirely consistent in this, as they don't carry the local CW outlet, KBHK, right? I always assumed that was related to some corporate power struggle between TimeWarner and Comcast. But regardless, if they interpreted "must carry" to apply to the KBHK digital signal, we'd have that among the locals, right?

Well, they aren't entirely consistent in this, as they don't carry the local CW outlet, KBHK, right? I always assumed that was related to some corporate power struggle between TimeWarner and Comcast. But regardless, if they interpreted "must carry" to apply to the KBHK digital signal, we'd have that among the locals, right?
KBCW(KBHK) is owned by CBS along with KPIX in this market. There shouldn't be any issues with Time Warner. I suspect that it's more a bandwidth issue.

BTW, CBS has already stated it wants cash for it's signals come contract time, it will get interesting to see if KPIX-HD remains unencrypted. In fact, once all the nets renegotiate it will be hard to imagine Comcast will absorb all that cost and leave the local HD in Basic and unencrypted without any price increase to the sub.

If ESPN gets about $3 per sub, cablenets like USA and TNT get .50 to 1.00 per sub, FSNBA about $1.00-2.00, you have to figure a highly watched channel like CBS is going to want a considerable amount. Times that by 4 and that's a bunch of money.

KBCW(KBHK) is owned by CBS along with KPIX in this market. There shouldn't be any issues with Time Warner. I suspect that it's more a bandwidth issue.

Hard to rationalize it on bandwidth alone, and I had assumed that their might be bad blood nationally (not just locally) between Comcast and TimeWarner. Why else would they not carry a high-def feed of narrow, but popular (Smallville, etc.) programming as opposed to that ridiculous KRON loop that they ran for years? Or the current high-def simulcast of low-def KRON crap?

I believe that Comcast has CW in HD in other areas. It may well be CBS......

Well, they aren't entirely consistent in this, as they don't carry the local CW outlet, KBHK, right? I always assumed that was related to some corporate power struggle between TimeWarner and Comcast. But regardless, if they interpreted "must carry" to apply to the KBHK digital signal, we'd have that among the locals, right?
The stations also have a choice of whether they want must-carry or to be paid for the channel.

It is my understanding one of the main goals of must-carry is to make sure OTA can have equal access to customers so they don't go the way of the dinosaur. I don't believe it was written to impose a business model on the stations, so they can choose not to do must-carry, if they felt it was in their best interest. The FCC was interested in preserving the free OTA. If must-carry is a necessity to keep stations alive so they can continue to offer free OTA, then FCC is giving them that option.

I don't know if CW is a case of bandwidth or station negotiation or something else.

Since all the locals are already must-carry, I believe the interpretation Comcast has been effectively using for the digital so far has been *when/if* we carry the signal at all, treat it as must-carry/basic-tier. Since we already carry the analog local we satisfy the base minimum of must-carry.

Even after the discussion of in what way must-carry applies to digital, there is also some contention over whether must-carry should apply to every stream or just the main channel (ie the multitude of weather channels, 4 KQED SD, etc.) Comcast has been again taking the interpretation of must-carry and basic tier for all the sub-channels as well.

In this area, I feel Comcast is doing the appropriate thing, so I applaud them for that.

Hard to rationalize it on bandwidth alone, and I had assumed that their might be bad blood nationally (not just locally) between Comcast and TimeWarner. Why else would they not carry a high-def feed of narrow, but popular (Smallville, etc.) programming as opposed to that ridiculous KRON loop that they ran for years? Or the current high-def simulcast of low-def KRON crap?
It could be that CBS is asking cash for the channel and/or planning on rolling it into their upcoming retrans agreement negotiations, where they have stated, they're going to get cash for their signals. I think CBS/Comcast comes up in another year, or thereabouts.

Time-Warner doesn't have anything to do with it.

... 'cause the apocalypse must be near: FSN-HD is up in Sunnyvale!!! I never thought I'd see the day :p
I just got back from a three week vacation a few days ago and have been trying to get caught up on the old thread and this new thread. Just this morning, I was flipping through channels and noticed that Sunnyvale now has FSN-HD. Then I see this post on the new thread. When I heard that Sunnyvale would be upgraded within the next 18 months, I thought the worst and didn't think we'd get upgraded until somewhere toward the end of that 18 month period. But I'm glad to see something so soon! Hopefully more good news isn't too far behind.

By the way, we have one other channel that's been added to the Sunnyvale line up that I also noticed this morning. I don't think anyone has mentioned it on this thread yet. For you Spanish speaking futbol (soccer) fans [I'm not one of them], you can now watch channel 618, GOLTV. It looks as though you have to subscribe to a specific tier to get it, as I got a "Not Authorize" message when I tuned to it.

FSN-HD pretty much only broadcasts during live events (i.e. Sharks, Warriors, A's, and Giants). During off-times they just show the logo.

OK, thanks, that makes sense. I figured the programming would be more limited than the SD version of FSN. The only reason I thought something might be amiss was that I had heard the channel would be available after the 25th, but I was seeing the logo a few days before and after that time. Also, 720 is still not shown on the channel lineup at Comcast's website for Sunnyvale.

OK, thanks, that makes sense. I figured the programming would be more limited than the SD version of FSN. The only reason I thought something might be amiss was that I had heard the channel would be available after the 25th, but I was seeing the logo a few days before and after that time. Also, 720 is still not shown on the channel lineup at Comcast's website for Sunnyvale.

Tonights Warriors game is scheduled to be on FSN-HD...next is the Sharks on Tuesday (I think)

Can someone confirm if they have ADS in Sunnyvale slums? My friend wanted to get a DCT-700 box but Sunnyvale Comcast office told them it does not work for his home (based on his phone number).

Thanks.

Can someone confirm if they have ADS in Sunnyvale slums? My friend wanted to get a DCT-700 box but Sunnyvale Comcast office told them it does not work for his home (based on his phone number).

Thanks.

The 550Mhz Slums do NOT have ADS

you can now watch channel 618, GOLTV. It looks as though you have to subscribe to a specific tier to get it,You need the Sports Tier to get it here.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/47cfr76.630.htm

Is this explicit enough? :)

Thanks! Looks pretty clear to me... so I guess the question to be answered is whether or not "must carry" includes digital or just analog, right?

So what's this about CBS wanting to charge more?

I guess the bottom line for me is: I want the main broadcast channels (HD) to remain unencrypted and in the basic tier. I don't mind paying $5 for the HD box rental, plus I'm grandfathered, so I get some of the other channels. Too bad those require the cable box.

So if anyone has any insight on whether or not that's going to change, either not included in the basic tier (Which is what the must carry covers) or becoming encrypted, which is whether or not digital falls under the must carry.... that would be great....

Did I state that all correctly? I'm getting senile in my old age...

Russ

It could be that CBS is asking cash for the channel and/or planning on rolling it into their upcoming retrans agreement negotiations, where they have stated, they're going to get cash for their signals. I think CBS/Comcast comes up in another year, or thereabouts.

Time-Warner doesn't have anything to do with it.

I suspect this is the case. There is a huge pissing contest going on between Sinclair broadcasting and Mediacom in the midwest over the broadcaster demanding payment for local TV. Mediacom basically told them to fly a kite, and cable subs in in 16 markets no longer have access to 22 local broadcast stations.

Not only that, but Sinclair just did a deal with DirecTV (which has a deal already for HD transmission from Sinclair) to offer subs a $100 to $150 rebate to switch from cable.

Mediacom appealed to the FCC to intervene, but the FCC suggested they go to arbitration instead. :-)

Many folks are looking to see what happens in this dispute as the bellwether for conflicts elsewhere.

Comcast in particular seems to have pissed off the chairman of the FCC so much that he denied a waiver from them to delay forcing them to deploy cablecard equipped boxes, so they can not expect much help in a retransmission consent fight with the broadcasters.

Given the degree cable rates have been going up, significantly more increases to pass along these new payments won't be tolerated well by consumers. DirecTV seems to have taken the tack of striking pioneering retransmission deals with the locals to help embolden them to cause trouble with the cable operators. Probably got a nice discount for being the first to fold too. :-)

Thanks,
mike

Tonights Warriors game is scheduled to be on FSN-HD...next is the Sharks on Tuesday (I think)

Yes, I was able to catch that game. Also, when I turned it on again later, it was back to the logo, so I guess that is what we'll see when there is no FSN HD programming.

Yes, I was able to catch that game. Also, when I turned it on again later, it was back to the logo, so I guess that is what we'll see when there is no FSN HD programming.

as it should be. is it really that important to see "best damn" in SD on that channel?

stanfurd vs. ruins is on FSN-HD tonight. as a cal bear, i don't know who to boo harder :\

i have the exact same setup as you, and i get lots of stuff including what you desire (i'm guessing). i don't have time to type the whole list, but you should get the following HD channels via QAM:

SOP 679, 555 mhz = 702
SOP 613, 747 MHZ = 703
SOP 597, 717 MHZ = 704
SOP 690, 555 MHZ = 705
SOP 687, 753 MHZ = 707
SOP 688, 709 MHZ = 709

at least, those are what i am getting Santa Clara in the clear on my Miglia unit. hopefully this helps and your numbers are similar. if not, i urge you to rescan and carefully go through each channel during prime time and have it display "normal size" to determine the HD ones in an obvious way. beyond using my numbers, i don't think there is any easy way to set up the box except in a labor intensive fashion (it took me a few hours to wade through all the music stations and stuff and figure out which stations to assign with the EPG guide...in the end, it all worked and it's been a nice PVR for me for my minimal TV watching usage. (i was using firewire before with my 6200 box, but when they upgraded the firmwire, i could no longer "tape" 702 and 705, so i went this route and it works well...plus i now have a "TV" in my home office room. :)
Hi,

I live in San Francisco where we have Comcast. I recently got an HD Tuner for my computer (Maglia TV Mini HD), but I can't seem to get many channels. I let the tuner software (EyeTV2) scan for all the cable channels for unencrypted channels (Clear QAM) and it came up with 215 channels. I flipped through all 215 channels to identify them, but none of them are local channels which I really want. I'm only getting some PBS, home shopping, and government channels along with a few I could not tell (but they weren't local channels). I tried the auto-scan several times, but ended up with the same 215 channels.

Am I missing something? I thought Comcast was broadcasting the local channels in HD through basic cable? I can't use the antenna because my reception sucks here. I could only get 2 stations (PBS stations) via ATSC.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, Phil

You can file a line up report on the web site, there's tech article pointing to that at http://tivo.com/lineup .

For UHD, TiVo didn't seem to notice until I poked them.

Thanks for the pointer! I first wanted to make sure my TiVo was receiving the channel (it does! yay! bring on the Sharks in HD) before contacting the linup gurus. I sent them a request Saturday afternoon, hopefully they'll set up the guide data soon.

Our house had a 'round tuit' once, sometime in the 80's I believe. It was yellow. Ring a bell?

I believe that Comcast Central does follow this thread, so I have a question:

I live in Ukiah, Mendocino Co. Our cable system, Adelphia, was recently purchased by Comcast. The local office does not seem to know (or want to tell) anything about upgrades out here in the sticks. Anyone have any news on anything planned for this system?

We pay a lot, more than what is represented in this thread, for basic analog cable and digital stb. They offer 4 or 5 HD channels, at a premium, but no broadcast network HD. I have a tv with a qam tuner, and pickup 1 hd channel, INHD. So I am teased with the stunning prospect of HD, but nothing of real value available on our cable. I am about to go to satellite for my programming signal, but wondered if anyone has any news about this system, as cable signal does seem to be the best pq.

Thanks for anything. Also this should help those in the "550 slums" feel better, as we poor step children do not even have that...

Relaying a question for a non-internet-ish friend who has a Motorola 6412 (as do I) and was frustrated in his desire to record the UCLA-Stanford game last night on FSNBA-HD. As is frequently the case, the program guide did not list the game on 720. He thus programmed the box to record the game in low-def on 40 and then set a manual recording for the right time slot on 720. The box made a recording of both, but the recording of 720 is basically empty. Would the box be so "smart" as to refuse to record a channel when the program guide says it is "off the air"? Is there a workaround for this problem?

I had to laugh (what's the alternative, ranting and hair pulling?) when I saw a highly favorable review of the 6412 in the current issue of The Perfect Vision. The author actually lives in the Bay Area, as is witnessed by a screen shot showing the guide with a KQED-HD program listed. The review was highly favorable, with his one major complaint being the lack of implementation of external SATA drives to expand capacity. In my long laundry list of complaints about the 6412, the lack of expandable capacity would be far far far down the list. While over the years the firmware upgrades have made the 6412 experience more tolerable (remember the "green sparklies of death" that would occur during recording playback every week or so requiring a complete power down?--last seen by me during my Oscar Party last year, so it's not that long ago), the experience still reminds me--every day--of the old adage about "whaddaya expect for nuthin?" Or for $5/mo anyways. The most notable remaining gripe is the "remote lag of death", which seems timed to occur most frequently during critical evening viewing periods. Which of course is the most sensible time for the DVR to download the program guide, which at least one poster has identified as the source of the problem. But we still have the incredibly non-intuitive menuing system, the lack of a native pass-through option (720p and 1080i), the lack of any functional ability to skip to a place in a recorded show, etc.

Yeah, I know, I should put my money where my mouth is and buy a Tivo S3. The sheer joy, for a geek like me, of plugging an S3 with terabyte drives might be worth it. But given the cable industry's hatred of the cablecard, I am too concerned about ending up with a box with functionality limited because Comcast decides to mess with data necessary to the (still quite expensive) Tivo box.

And yes, I am having a grumpy Monday . . . . ;)

tom, i've successfully recorded FSNHD sports that said "off air", not sure why your friend is having problems. i will say that setting a manual recording is hard as hell, i have to waste time pushing the forward button to get to the right time slot, but i can't push it too fast otherwise it starts going in 30 minute intervals. that is pretty infuriating.

I have a Sharp LC-37D6U LCD in my bedroom and a Fujitsu 63" Plasma in my family room. Each room has it's own Motorola DCT 6412 III box. The difference in quality between the Fujitsu plasma and the Sharp LCD is unbelievable. The Fujitsu is outstanding and the Sharp is just so so. I'm wondering if this has something to do with how the set top boxes are set up? How do you change the output from 1080i to 720p? Would the Sharp look better if I set the box to 720p. One other difference between the two rooms is that the Sharp is hooked up directly to the Motorola box via HDMI and the Fujitsu is hooked up via HDMI to my Pioneer VSX 74 Txvi Receiver which is hooked up to the Motorola with component cables (HDMI does not work between the Motorola and the Pioneer). Any advice on how to get the Sharp to look better appreciated.

How do you change the output from 1080i to 720p? Would the Sharp look better if I set the box to 720p.

There is a really helpful WikiBook on the 6412. Here is the section that answers your question re changing the output resolution:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup#HDMI.2FYPbPr_Output

As to making the Sharp look like the Fuji . . . that will be a tough deal. I have a very similar setup at home as you do--I have the 50 inch Fuji 40 series and the Sony Bravia LCD 32-incher. I too have a 6412 feeding a receiver by component and then the receiver feeding HDMI to the Fujitsu. (Although the latest 6412 firmware was supposed to eliminate the "HDMI repeater" copy protection error, I haven't bothered to test it out.)

You probably have a couple of things going on. The Fujitsus are known for having one of the best . . . if not THE best . . . internal scalers of any TV set. It's what you are paying for when you paid the premium over what a competitor plasma would cost. So, while the Sharp is an excellent set, you are partly just seeing what you paid for in the Fuji. This is particularly apparent on standard definition programming.

I think part of what you are seeing is likely the difference in the technologies. I know opinions differ, but I just don't think that even the best LCD matches the better plasma screen performance. And when you get out of LCD's sweet spot--higher ambient light levels and straight on viewing--the difference is not even close. Not trying to start an LCD vs. Plasma flame war here, just my opinion.

Another thing is that LCD is much much harder to calibrate properly. In addition to all the usual white and black level settings to mess with, you've got the issue of how much backlighting you want to give the LCD. I've probably spent 5 times the amount of time playing with my Sony LCD as I have with the Fujitsu.

All that having been said, I would try the 6412 at 720p for the Sharp and see if that improves the performance. This might help, particularly with 720p broadcasts (such as ABC and ESPN). This is also one area related to my gripe (a post or two above) about the lack of a native passthrough on the 6412. If you set the 6412 to output 720p, it's going to have to do the scaling on 1080i programming (CBS, NBC, HBO, etc.) One expects that the 6412 scaling is going to be weaker than whatever your Fuji or even your Sharp would be able to do itself on 1080i broadcasting.

Try to find a tips guide on the internet for calibrating the Sharp--I expect you would be able to get some help in the other board in the forum here, for example. There may be internal settings that would improve the performance, particularly for SD.

But bottom line, I don't think that Sharp will ever look as good as the Fuji. But then I bet that Fuji cost a few bucks more . . . . ;)

I had to laugh (what's the alternative, ranting and hair pulling?) when I saw a highly favorable review of the 6412 in the current issue of The Perfect Vision.

Yes, I read that too and was surprised as Comcast is not likely to be an advertiser in that magazine. Many magazines have a well-known propensity to never criticize anything from an advertiser for fear of loosing ad revenue, but this is not the case here, so either this guy has very low standards, or hasn't spend much time using a 6412.

How do you change the output from 1080i to 720p? Would the Sharp look better if I set the box to 720p.

To change the output resolution, go into menu mode. Turn the box off and then hit the menu button on the front of the box. The "HDMI/YPbPr Output" menu item is the one you want to change.

As to whether changing the output resolution from 1080i to 720p will make your Sharp look better is something you need to try and see.

You probably have a couple of things going on. The Fujitsus are known for having one of the best . . . if not THE best . . . internal scalers of any TV set. It's what you are paying for when you paid the premium over what a competitor plasma would cost. So, while the Sharp is an excellent set, you are partly just seeing what you paid for in the Fuji. This is particularly apparent on standard definition programming.


I have the same Fuji plasma as you do, and its performance on SD with a 6412 phase II was, although nothing to write home about, quite reasonable. When my 6412 gave up the ghost and Comcast replaced it with a 3416, SD performance on HDMI went to hell. It's so bad that I had to switch to component on SD. The difference between the 6412 and 3416 on SD via HDMI is quite remarkable--and not for the better.

There is a really helpful WikiBook on the 6412. Here is the section that answers your question re changing the output resolution:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup#HDMI.2FYPbPr_Output

As to making the Sharp look like the Fuji . . . that will be a tough deal. I have a very similar setup at home as you do--I have the 50 inch Fuji 40 series and the Sony Bravia LCD 32-incher. I too have a 6412 feeding a receiver by component and then the receiver feeding HDMI to the Fujitsu. (Although the latest 6412 firmware was supposed to eliminate the "HDMI repeater" copy protection error, I haven't bothered to test it out.)

You probably have a couple of things going on. The Fujitsus are known for having one of the best . . . if not THE best . . . internal scalers of any TV set. It's what you are paying for when you paid the premium over what a competitor plasma would cost. So, while the Sharp is an excellent set, you are partly just seeing what you paid for in the Fuji. This is particularly apparent on standard definition programming.

I think part of what you are seeing is likely the difference in the technologies. I know opinions differ, but I just don't think that even the best LCD matches the better plasma screen performance. And when you get out of LCD's sweet spot--higher ambient light levels and straight on viewing--the difference is not even close. Not trying to start an LCD vs. Plasma flame war here, just my opinion.

Another thing is that LCD is much much harder to calibrate properly. In addition to all the usual white and black level settings to mess with, you've got the issue of how much backlighting you want to give the LCD. I've probably spent 5 times the amount of time playing with my Sony LCD as I have with the Fujitsu.

All that having been said, I would try the 6412 at 720p for the Sharp and see if that improves the performance. This might help, particularly with 720p broadcasts (such as ABC and ESPN). This is also one area related to my gripe (a post or two above) about the lack of a native passthrough on the 6412. If you set the 6412 to output 720p, it's going to have to do the scaling on 1080i programming (CBS, NBC, HBO, etc.) One expects that the 6412 scaling is going to be weaker than whatever your Fuji or even your Sharp would be able to do itself on 1080i broadcasting.

Try to find a tips guide on the internet for calibrating the Sharp--I expect you would be able to get some help in the other board in the forum here, for example. There may be internal settings that would improve the performance, particularly for SD.

But bottom line, I don't think that Sharp will ever look as good as the Fuji. But then I bet that Fuji cost a few bucks more . . . . ;)
You are right that the Fujitsu did cost much more but the Sharp wasn't cheap at $3300. I just tried monkeying around with the Sharp's settings on Sharpness and that did seem to help; for some reason it was turned all the way down to -10. I think the native resolution on the Sharp is 1080i (I know it is on the Fujitsu) because when I put an HD show on the Sharp briefly displays "1080i" in the upper right corner. I will try changing the Motorola set top box to 720p to see if that makes a difference but I'm guessing the scaler in the Sharp is better than the one in the Motorola.

I forgot to mention that I did try to use the HDMI output from the Motorola STB to the Pioneer after the recent firmware upgrade and it still doesn't work properly. Only audio gets through, no video. That said, my picture is outstanding on the Fujitsu with the component cables so I'm not too upset about that but it does seem ridiculous that we still can't use the HDMI output!!

Okay, now I've really screwed up everything. I got to the menu and changed it to 720p but the screen shifted over to the right so I can only see about 3/4 of the picture. Then I tried going back to 1080i and somehow I really screwed up everything and now I can't even see the menu properly on the screen. I've got all kinds of stuff on the screen but I can't see to read the menu and the stations is kind of coming in too so what do I do now?

I have the same Fuji plasma as you do, and its performance on SD with a 6412 phase II was, although nothing to write home about, quite reasonable. When my 6412 gave up the ghost and Comcast replaced it with a 3416, SD performance on HDMI went to hell. It's so bad that I had to switch to component on SD. The difference between the 6412 and 3416 on SD via HDMI is quite remarkable--and not for the better.

Interesting. Do you think that you were still receiving analog transmissions for SD on the 6412 and that the switch to the all-digital 3416 is the reason for the difference? The 6412 is capable of receiving the SD channels digitally, but apparently it takes awhile for Comcast to find your and switch. I had analog transmission for several months after the rollout of ADS until I noticed one day that it had switched to digital on the SD channels. Didn't notice that much of a difference, but then my setup is already connected as component because of the HDMI repeater problem with the Denon receiver that sits between the 6412 and the Fuji. I can't imagine why switching from HDMI to component would improve matters . . . unless your component input on the Fuji is calibrated differently than the HDMI.

Okay, now I've really screwed up everything. I got to the menu and changed it to 720p but the screen shifted over to the right so I can only see about 3/4 of the picture. Then I tried going back to 1080i and somehow I really screwed up everything and now I can't even see the menu properly on the screen. I've got all kinds of stuff on the screen but I can't see to read the menu and the stations is kind of coming in too so what do I do now?

You can walk through the same thing by powering the box off again and then entering the code to bring up the menu. Even if the Sharp doesn't like the output you have set and is displaying gibberish, you ought to be able to scroll through the menu screens by watching the screen on the 6412 itself. The 6412 menu screen will tell you what options you have as you use the arrow keys to move up and down or left and right to find options with the OK/select button to choose the options. That WikiBook explains all the menus and may be helpful to you in doing this if you can't read it on the Sharp.

Worst comes to worse, I bet that the box will reset itself to 1080i if you pull the plug out of the outlet. That's an annoying fix, though, even if it works, because the 6412 will spend the better part of the next day downloading guide information to replace what it has lost. And I'm not entirely sure that will reset it to 1080i.

BTW, the "1080i" sign the Sharp is showing is telling you what the 6412 is outputting not what the Sharp's best setting would be. I'm pretty sure that 720p would be a better match for any LCD that is not capable of 1080 lines of resolution. Your 37D6U has a native resolution of 768 x 1366 which ought to make 720p a better fit. I don't think the Fuji is capable of 1080 lines either, but I haven't kept up with the Fuji line since I bought mine 1.5 years ago.

Interesting. Do you think that you were still receiving analog transmissions for SD on the 6412 and that the switch to the all-digital 3416 is the reason for the difference? The 6412 is capable of receiving the SD channels digitally, but apparently it takes awhile for Comcast to find your and switch. I had analog transmission for several months after the rollout of ADS until I noticed one day that it had switched to digital on the SD channels. Didn't notice that much of a difference, but then my setup is already connected as component because of the HDMI repeater problem with the Denon receiver that sits between the 6412 and the Fuji. I can't imagine why switching from HDMI to component would improve matters . . . unless your component input on the Fuji is calibrated differently than the HDMI.

That's not the issue. Even the upper SD channels above 99 (e.g. digital) have the same problem on the 3416 via HDMI. I tried everything I could, including recalibrating the Fuji and trying all combinations of settings on the 3416, but nothing helps. There are serious video artifacts visible on the Fuji when viewing SD channels via HDMI. Component is about the same as it was on the 6412.

I also have an older Fuji 50" (30 series) with DVI input instead of HDMI, but when I connect the 3416 to it via an HDMI to DVI converter, I get the same crappy results on SD stations.

It's so bad that I'm seriously considering getting a Tivo S3 and returning the 3416 to Comcast.

You can walk through the same thing by powering the box off again and then entering the code to bring up the menu. Even if the Sharp doesn't like the output you have set and is displaying gibberish, you ought to be able to scroll through the menu screens by watching the screen on the 6412 itself. The 6412 menu screen will tell you what options you have as you use the arrow keys to move up and down or left and right to find options with the OK/select button to choose the options. That WikiBook explains all the menus and may be helpful to you in doing this if you can't read it on the Sharp.

Worst comes to worse, I bet that the box will reset itself to 1080i if you pull the plug out of the outlet. That's an annoying fix, though, even if it works, because the 6412 will spend the better part of the next day downloading guide information to replace what it has lost. And I'm not entirely sure that will reset it to 1080i.

BTW, the "1080i" sign the Sharp is showing is telling you what the 6412 is outputting not what the Sharp's best setting would be. I'm pretty sure that 720p would be a better match for any LCD that is not capable of 1080 lines of resolution. Your 37D6U has a native resolution of 768 x 1366 which ought to make 720p a better fit. I don't think the Fuji is capable of 1080 lines either, but I haven't kept up with the Fuji line since I bought mine 1.5 years ago.
Well I tried unplugging and that didn't help. I tried using the "restore all defaults" and that didn't help. I guess I should have left well enough alone. I'm going to call Comcast and see if they can help me figure it out.

I'm in Sunnyvale, and I used to get ESPN-HD and Discovery-HD free (i.e. with the expanded basic plan and no subscription to any digital plan). I have a CableCard in my TV. I have not checked those stations for a while, but now they are no longer available. Has something changed in Comcast's encryption policy just recently? What do I need to do to get those two channels back (and perhaps FSN_HD also)?

As an aside, I had to call Comcast to provide the CableCard info to them over the phone. Did that trigger the change in what I could get? I get this feeling that perhaps I shouldn't have called them, since they really wanted me to call them...

Yeah, I know, I should put my money where my mouth is and buy a Tivo S3. The sheer joy, for a geek like me, of plugging an S3 with terabyte drives might be worth it. But given the cable industry's hatred of the cablecard, I am too concerned about ending up with a box with functionality limited because Comcast decides to mess with data necessary to the (still quite expensive) Tivo box.The S3 works for me. There's a lot of discussion of this sort of thing over at TiVoCommunity, you'll find a lot of satisfied customers, as well as a few who got p*ssed off.

What do I need to do to get those two channels back (and perhaps FSN_HD also)?

Pay for digital classic.

Yeah, I know, I should put my money where my mouth is and buy a Tivo S3. The sheer joy, for a geek like me, of plugging an S3 with terabyte drives might be worth it. But given the cable industry's hatred of the cablecard, I am too concerned about ending up with a box with functionality limited because Comcast decides to mess with data necessary to the (still quite expensive) Tivo box.

No problem with my two S3s. I think the CableCard experiences in this area are better than many other places.

It's so bad that I'm seriously considering getting a Tivo S3 and returning the 3416 to Comcast.

Have they completely phased out the 6412? I would think they would still have a fair number of those boxes around, if only from repairs and returns. You'd be losing 40 MB, but if the SD is really better through HDMI, then maybe that's worth the trade. Lot cheaper than an S3. ;)

Lost FSNBA-HD(720) up here in Santa Rosa today, just a grey screen, no spinning logo. Anyone else in Santa Rosa lose it? Trying to figure out if it's just me or not.

Lost FSNBA-HD(720) up here in Santa Rosa today, just a grey screen, no spinning logo. Anyone else in Santa Rosa lose it? Trying to figure out if it's just me or not.
Same here in Novato. I think it's happened before and it came back when there was program to view.

Same here in Novato. I think it's happened before and it came back when there was program to view.
Thanks.

Lost FSNBA-HD(720) up here in Santa Rosa today, just a grey screen, no spinning logo. Anyone else in Santa Rosa lose it? Trying to figure out if it's just me or not.

Same in Rohnert Park. This happens quite often. When an event is going on it's fine. I wouldn't sweat it.

Have they completely phased out the 6412? I would think they would still have a fair number of those boxes around, if only from repairs and returns. You'd be losing 40 MB, but if the SD is really better through HDMI, then maybe that's worth the trade. Lot cheaper than an S3. ;)

Not at Comcast's Livermore office. They have stacks of 3412 and 3416 boxes eight feet high, but no 6412's in sight. I asked about this and they told me they were replacing all 6412's as they came in with the 3412 and 3416. I specifically asked for a 6412 phase III, but they wouldn't give me one and I got stuck with the 3416 abomination.

Same in Rohnert Park. This happens quite often. When an event is going on it's fine. I wouldn't sweat it.
Strange, down here in the un-upgraded area of SaraMilgatos ( but soon to be upgraded) FSNBA-HD is as always with the spinning 3D logo. Maybe you guy's are too upgraded :D

Laters,
Mikef5

Have they completely phased out the 6412? I would think they would still have a fair number of those boxes around, if only from repairs and returns. You'd be losing 40 MB, but if the SD is really better through HDMI, then maybe that's worth the trade. Lot cheaper than an S3. ;)

6412s all being collected and sent to non-ADS areas. No door to door recall, but a passive phase out.

But sheeshe - I'd give the customer one if it satisfies them.

Not at Comcast's Livermore office. They have stacks of 3412 and 3416 boxes eight feet high, but no 6412's in sight. I asked about this and they told me they were replacing all 6412's as they came in with the 3412 and 3416. I specifically asked for a 6412 phase III, but they wouldn't give me one and I got stuck with the 3416 abomination.

If the 6412 really does SD better, I think this means that I should learn to cherish the box that I just denigrated a few posts back . . . . ;)

Or get a Tivo S3, which has excellent PQ on SD from what I've been told...

I have had my cable card since july 2004 in three different tv sets and have had zero problems with it.Only time it did not work right was when they first installed it back in 2004 as they were very new then.I get all the hd and digital channels with out a hitch.Iam located in cupertino.

My Plasma Tv has a Qam tuner and I have the cable plugged directly into it. I pick up the usual analog Basic and Expanded channels, together with the 6 local stations (KTVU, KNTV...)in HD.
In addition I get a whole bunch of the stations repeated above channel 80, but they all seem to be the same reception quality as the Basic/Expanded. - the channel description shows that they are being received as 480i - am I right in presuming that this is still analog?.
Would I get improved reception of these stations if I installed a Cablecard? I know that if I do so I will have to buy the Digital Classic package, although I don't see much that I would get really excited about in that lineup, and I am sorry to say that I am not a sports enthusiast so ESPN HD is not a "must have". The only real benefit that I see for me is that the HD stations are grouped together numerically instead of being scattered amongst the other stations.
I also have a second HDTV which does not have cablecard capability, again with a Qam tuner and the cable plugged directly in to it. If I put a Cablecard in the other TV and had the Comcast Digital package would there be any change in the channel lineup for this second one? I would not want to instal a STB or DVR.
Thnks

In addition I get a whole bunch of the stations repeated above channel 80, but they all seem to be the same reception quality as the Basic/Expanded. - the channel description shows that they are being received as 480i - am I right in presuming that this is still analog?.They'd be SD digital. SD doesn't mean analog, it can be digital as well.

You can tell they'd be digital if its the QAM tuner which is picking them up, alaog would require an NTSC tuner. Also if they have a '-' in the channel number they're digital. Would I get improved reception of these stations if I installed a Cablecard? Cable card wouldn't make a difference to the video quality on these channels. Digital is digital, you may not get these channels anymore if you did get a cable card, Comcast may map you to the analog channels instead. If you did get these channels, the only advantage is you'd get channel number which Comcast advertises, weird random channel numbers. Thats really useful for a DVR, but for a TV may not be worth it.

What channel is the NBC HD channel on in Sunnyvale on QAM?

I have a Tivo series 3 (no cablecards yet), and can't find NBC.. I found Fox, CBS, ABC (IIRC), and a few PBS stations. NBC would be nice, and though I realize it's not using the Tivo as meant to be used, I could actually see using manual programs for a very few things (I already did it for one PBS music show)... I may actually cringe and get cablecards..

(I know this probably sounds weird.. I'm one of the relatively few who got the series 3 *because* of the lifetime service transfer option, and do not actually have HDTV yet and am probably not likely to get it very very soon.. unless my TV dies.)

Cable card wouldn't make a difference to the video quality on these channels. Digital is digital, you may not get these channels anymore if you did get a cable card, Comcast may map you to the analog channels instead.

For what it's worth, after I ditched my 6200 in favor of a CableCARD, PQ on digital SD material was remarkably better (I have a Sony KDF-E42A10, a LCD RP set). On the other hand, however, analog SD material looked slightly worse.

Yes, digital is digital in terms of what's coming over the wire, but not all digital decoders are born equal. ;)

but not all digital decoders are born equal. ;)But a decoder with and without a cable card is born equal with itself.

What channel is the NBC HD channel on in Sunnyvale on QAM?

I have a Tivo series 3 (no cablecards yet), and can't find NBC.. I found Fox, CBS, ABC (IIRC), and a few PBS stations. NBC would be nice, and though I realize it's not using the Tivo as meant to be used, I could actually see using manual programs for a very few things (I already did it for one PBS music show)... I may actually cringe and get cablecards..

(I know this probably sounds weird.. I'm one of the relatively few who got the series 3 *because* of the lifetime service transfer option, and do not actually have HDTV yet and am probably not likely to get it very very soon.. unless my TV dies.)

I get mine on 79-1 here in SJ

Tonights Warriors game is scheduled to be on FSN-HD...next is the Sharks on Tuesday (I think)


hey dog. are you getting fsn-hd from dish. i thought you dumped comcast. i'm not getting any fsn from my gold dish package. what's up

But a decoder with and without a cable card is born equal with itself.

Tautology. Stack overflow. Core dumped. :p

Looks like Comcast will be fighting tooth and nail to wiggle out of the upcoming CableCARD mandate deadline (just like the last 2 times) IMO if they are successful a third time, I think CableCARD is pretty much dead. TiVo S3's will have limited value. due to the probable introduction of SDV, something which cable DVRs will not have to deal with because they wouldn't be required to use CableCARD. On the other hand if the mandate stays, then cable DVRs (and STBs) will need to deal with making SDV work on CableCARD 1.0 devices so at least TiVo S3 has a way to piggyback on the solutions and cable companies have an incentive to implement a solution.

Notice the strategy is multi-fold. I don't even think they feel the FCC vote would go in their favor, but once there is a vote, it would allow them to appeal in court, which as we all know is a very speedy process, not!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9631351&&#post9631351

Comcast Files FCC Appeal Over Set-Top Box Ruling

01/30/2007
Dow Jones News Services
(Copyright © 2007 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)



By Corey Boles
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--Cable giant Comcast Corp. (CMCSA) Tuesday filed an appeal with industry regulator the Federal Communications Commission over its decision to force the company to abide by new regulations regarding set-top boxes.

The FCC rejected Comcast's request for a waiver from the rules in January. At the time, the company immediately announced its intention to appeal the decision.

Comcast is now asking the five politically appointed commissioners at the FCC to vote on the issue rather than for it to be decided by agency staff.

Were the commissioners to hold a vote and still rule against Comcast, then the company would have the right to appeal the matter to the courts, but its hands are tied until the FCC rules on its appeal.

The agency is requiring cable operators to provide set-top boxes to subscribers from July 1 that don't include integrated security features that link the box directly back to the cable provider.

Its goal is to establish a retail market for the boxes and encourage other companies such as mainstream consumer electronic manufacturers into the market.

Currently, the majority of consumers who have boxes rent them from their cable provider and surrender the device to them when they cancel their subscription or move house.

FCC Chairman Kevin Martin strongly believes that cable prices are too high, and has pointed to the cost of renting the boxes as one factor in the price.

The average cost of to rent a set-top box is around $7 a month.

The industry has argued that the technology used in the current generation of set-top boxes will soon be redundant and has asked for time to develop downloadable technology which would replace the current boxes.

The National Cable & Telecommunications Association has asked for two more years for this, but the FCC has rejected this, saying it would want a greater certainty that the technology would be ready by 2009 and that it isn't just a further delaying tactic by cable.

The lobby group has said that rather than save consumers money, the new rules will instead cost consumers an extra $600 million a year as they will have to buy new boxes.

It has filed a separate appeal to Comcast's as has telecommunications company Verizon Communications (VZ), which is making rapid strides in moving into the video service market.

The FCC has yet to rule on either of these appeals, although there has been some speculation it may do so this week.

On its own, the issue of set-top boxes is important to the cable industry, but the FCC's action represents one of several decisions that have gone against the industry in recent months. Martin has been accused of being biased against the industry, although he has publicly denied any rift with cable.

Martin, as well as the other four FCC commissioners, are set to appear before the Senate Commerce Committee on Thursday where, he at least, can expect a grilling from Democratic senators over some of the FCC's actions of late.

No one from the FCC was immediately available to comment on the Comcast appeal.

- By Corey Boles, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-6637; corey.boles@dowjones.com


(END) Dow Jones Newswires

01-30-07 1130ET

Copyright (c) 2007 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

FCC Chairman Kevin Martin strongly believes that cable prices are too high, and has pointed to the cost of renting the boxes as one factor in the price.


To me, the cost of the boxes isn't the issue. The real issue is the fact that the Motorola boxes Comcast uses are a steaming pile of dog crap. Forcing Comcast to use CableCards in their own boxes ensures they can't force out other players, such as Tivo, who have quality product and not garbage.

I assume that every Comcast digital customer in the Bay Area got that "we're getting rid of InDemand 4 through 7 as of 1/31" message?

Pardon me for asking, but is there a specific reason for this move, or is it just something like "we could use the extra bandwidth, and pretty much everybody has already seen the movies on InD4 through InD7 anyway"?

-- Don

I haven't seen the message about in demand 4-7, but I don't have a way to receive messages like that. It'd free up just about enough space for an extra HD channel. They want people to use On Demand for PPV anyway.

I assume that every Comcast digital customer in the Bay Area got that "we're getting rid of InDemand 4 through 7 as of 1/31" message?

Pardon me for asking, but is there a specific reason for this move, or is it just something like "we could use the extra bandwidth, and pretty much everybody has already seen the movies on InD4 through InD7 anyway"?

-- Don

i couldn't be happier the PPV channels are going away. it only hogged up valuable bandwidth and was of no value to me.

Anyone know what the QAM channel for INHD is in the east bay?

I assume that every Comcast digital customer in the Bay Area got that "we're getting rid of InDemand 4 through 7 as of 1/31" message?

Pardon me for asking, but is there a specific reason for this move, or is it just something like "we could use the extra bandwidth, and pretty much everybody has already seen the movies on InD4 through InD7 anyway"?

-- Don
That assumes that everyone gets InDemand which the 550 MHz areas do not get, yet. I doubt that it's about bandwidth but more likely to get rid of redundant channels or shifting of channels around or shifting them to different areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

Anyone know what the QAM channel for INHD is in the east bay?
INHD is encrypted so knowing the QAM channel wouldn't help you view it, sorry.

Laters,
Mikef5

INHD is encrypted so knowing the QAM channel wouldn't help you view it, sorry.

Laters,
Mikef5

Thanks a bunch. Anyone have a current QAM channel list?

Thanks a bunch. Anyone have a current QAM channel list?
It varies from locality to locality and within locality it can change from day to day. So it's not practical to have a list. CableCards are designed to map the channels to the same numbers that a Comcast box, so if your QAM tuner will take CableCard that would be best.

Thanks a bunch. Anyone have a current QAM channel list?
If you're looking for the channels that are in the clear, it would help to know what area you are in. I'm in the Milpitas area and I could tell you what they are for this area, they are different in different areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

It varies from locality to locality and within locality it can change from day to day. So it's not practical to have a list. CableCards are designed to map the channels to the same numbers that a Comcast box, so if your QAM tuner will take CableCard that would be best.
Wow, the channel numbering hasn't changed in months in my area, maybe because there's nothing to change around in the 550 MHz areas ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Wow, the channel numbering hasn't changed in months in my area, maybe because there's nothing to change around in the 550 MHz areas ;)

Laters,
Mikef5
That seems to be the norm in 550 areas, no room to move channels around, it seems like mine have been the same for years.

That seems to be the norm in 550 areas, no room to move channels around, it seems like mine have been the same for years.
Good thing is this is going to change soon for some, later for others but in the end we'll all have the same channels for them to move around ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Keenan,

Did you hear that the launch of the new satellites for D*'s new HD is going to be delayed ?? Rocket blew up on the launch pad, not D*'s sat but a sat for an other country. This will prevent D* from launching all those promised HD channels. Someone said they saw Charlie Egan speeding away in a speed boat after the explosion ... :eek: :p

Laters,
Mikef5

To me, the cost of the boxes isn't the issue. The real issue is the fact that the Motorola boxes Comcast uses are a steaming pile of dog crap. Forcing Comcast to use CableCards in their own boxes ensures they can't force out other players, such as Tivo, who have quality product and not garbage.
Yeah that makes no sense at all. "Average cost to rent box = $7/mo" ?? What? Average cost of digital cable = $70/mo... only $7 of that is the box, wouldn't you say that cost is actually fairly trivial?

Also, I have a strong feeling that forcing cablecos to include CableCards in their own boxes will do nothing but INcrease the price - since it will increase the cost significantly, and they will simply pass that cost along to the consumer (and rightly so). I really don't see what the point of that legislation is.

Or rather, I see the "point" - sort of... I just don't think it will actually achieve the goals it sets out to.

I really don't see what the point of that legislation is.

If Comcast is required to use CableCards in their own boxes, they have an incentive to make sure the cards work and to make sure their people know how to support them. Right now, they have absolutely no incentive to do either.

If Comcast is required to use CableCards in their own boxes, they have an incentive to make sure the cards work and to make sure their people know how to support them. Right now, they have absolutely no incentive to do either.

But is that really a problem now? I know there were issues with the CableCARDs in the past but from what I've been reading it seems like most of the issues have been ironed out. I'm with walk in that this will probably just add to our already high bill. It seems like this is just the FCC punishing the MSO's for taking so long to implement this (which I'm all for...as long as it doesn't cost me more).

Yeah that makes no sense at all. "Average cost to rent box = $7/mo" ?? What? Average cost of digital cable = $70/mo... only $7 of that is the box, wouldn't you say that cost is actually fairly trivial?

Also, I have a strong feeling that forcing cablecos to include CableCards in their own boxes will do nothing but INcrease the price - since it will increase the cost significantly, and they will simply pass that cost along to the consumer (and rightly so). I really don't see what the point of that legislation is.

Or rather, I see the "point" - sort of... I just don't think it will actually achieve the goals it sets out to.
That is the public line from the MSOs to drum up public support for their position.

Regarding cost:
1) First STB is free with your package. Second STB/DVR is where you see the #s start piling up. $7 for STB "outlet fee", $7 for HD option, $12 for DVR.
2) When you are locked into a single vendor, that vendor will be able to charge tremendous margin. When someone says the price will increase, they cannot honestly say that without knowing what margin is built into the current Motorola box pricing, as well as what margin overseas manufacturers would be willing to build these boxes for, *if* there was a market for CableCARD devices.
3) For example, does the inclusion of Close Captioning decoding in every TV really increase the cost, or does the volume make the increase inconsequential? Does the inclusion of a PCMCIA port on a laptop really add that much cost? CableCARD is a freaking PCMCIA port. All the support chips and functionality are already designed and tested. It can only get cheaper with volume and competition, but you won't get competition unless there is a market.

Regarding features:
w/o a market for CableCARD it will be a long time before people are willing to enter this game with innovative products. Why put something out if it is going to be killed by the MSO? If TiVo S3 fails that will be a big sign for other innovative designers to stay away from building cable products. It could 2-4 years before anyone is brave enough to try developing on some of the newer platforms. If you are happy with the functionality of the 6412/3412 then you really don't care about this issue, but some of us are used to far superior functionality so we want there to be choices.

Look, the bottom line is the cable company is going to raise your prices regardless of CableCARD. You already saw it on your Jan bill. Those price increases are not just for programming. You are subsidizing other projects like VOD, VOIP, etc. If you are going to pay the price increases regardless, you might as well get some choice in hardware and the potential for new and innovative products in return.

If you're looking for the channels that are in the clear, it would help to know what area you are in. I'm in the Milpitas area and I could tell you what they are for this area, they are different in different areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

I'm in Fremont, thanks!

But is that really a problem now?
Comcast says they are going to be rolling out SDV in 2007 so I would say yes, it is absolutely a problem, especially for TiVo S3 and all those CableCARD TVs that have already been sold.

At least with TiVo S3 it has a USB port so theoretically it could piggyback on some DOCSIS solution that might be used in the CableCARD STBs.

I think your CableCARD TVs are SOL if you care about the channels that go on SDV.

Comcast says they are going to be rolling out SDV in 2007 so I would say yes, it is absolutely a problem, especially for TiVo S3 and all those CableCARD TVs that have already been sold.

I see your point. But is the FCC saying whether or not MSO's will be required to continue to support CablCARDs once they implement a software-based encryption scheme? If not then, yes, it looks like current S3 Tivo's users would be on the path to being screwed (unless of course Tivo could somehow provide support for OCAP or some other software-based encryption via a firmware update).

But is that really a problem now?Go read some of the threads about S3s and cable cards on TiVo Community and you'll see it is a problem in a lot of places. Around here its not too bad though.

I apologize in advanced for a question that has absolutely nothing to do with Comcast, HDTV, or anything A/V.

I'm starting a new job tomorrow and I need to go to the company HQ in Palo Alto for the day. Living in the Walnut Creek area, I'm trying to find the best way down. Google and MapQuest want me to take 680 all the way down to the 237, cross over and go north on the 101. That seems way out of the way. I will be 2 other people so I will be able to use the HOV lanes. Any advise from those commuters out there?

Thanks!

I see your point. But is the FCC saying whether or not MSO's will be required to continue to support CablCARDs once they implement a software-based encryption scheme? If not then, yes, it looks like current S3 Tivo's users would be on the path to being screwed (unless of course Tivo could somehow provide support for OCAP or some other software-based encryption via a firmware update).
This is the way I look at it.

Mandate is July 07. CableCARD 1.0 is the only external encryption they have working right now that is deployed.

That means the July 07 mandate, if it stands, will force CableCARD 1.0 STB solutions for all new STBs until such time as there is some other solution.

What that means is the install base for CableCARD 1.0 will drastically increase, forcing the support of CableCARD 1.0 based STBs to be an issue the MSO cares about rather than something that early adopters have to deal with.

Assuming the MSO is forward looking and realizes they are planning on SDV and they are going to be deploying lots of CableCARD 1.0 STBs starting July, they will come up with a solution for the CableCARD SDVs to use CableCARD 1.0 and through some secondary means handle the SDV switching. That "other" solution is rumored to be some DOCSIS-based solution.

TiVo S3 is based on Linux and has a USB port. That gives it some flexibility in handling these "other" solutions because there is expansion capability as well as full fledged OS platform. Now whether something like that would make financial sense is a complete different question, but at least if the mandate goes through, the MSO will be building a solution for their own STBs and this isn't offloaded as a problem just for TiVo to figure out. If the latter case happened, I think TiVo S3 is just dead for lots of people using cable.

Now if TiVo S3 is dead, that will make lots of CE industry innovators take a long pause before building any advanced cable devices because they saw what happened before.

Eventually they will come back and be enticed to build products, but that could be a long time.

Think about how long digital cable has been around and how long it took to get QAM STBs into homes. One big reason is there simply is no market for 3rd-party STBs because of the captive market Motorola and SA have due to proprietary access control.

If there is no market, nobody will build, and you will be stuck with what is provided, whether you like it or not. Next time someone posts a grumble about 6412/3412, they should just kick themselves for not supporting the creation of a market for third-party products that would give them a choice of equipment if they didn't like the one they were provided.

There is some truth that some of the newer designs are a better fit, but there is also truth that the longer you wait and the farther you get from CC 1.0, the more you are killing the market. People just need to decide what is more important to them.

I think the "pass on the cost to users" excuse is a total red herring. The cable company always passes the cost onto the users and many times it is for stuff you could care less about, but are part of the MSOs future expansion. How much do you think you have subsidized VOD and VOIP over the years? How many of you actually use them? All the "free" content on VOD cost Comcast money. One would be naive to think that content didn't result in increased cable rates.

At least with CableCARD you are creating a market where competition could bring down STB/PVR costs and innovation could provide better products.

If OCAP was here today and TiVo S3 was using it today, I think there would be little argument whether OCAP is a better technical solution than CC1.0. The problem is CC1.0 is the only thing you have deployed. How long do you want to continue waiting while the 3rd party innovaters die off like the dinosaurs? The mandate has already been delayed twice because of the promise of something better just around the corner. TiVo had a CableCARD solution demonstrated at CES *2 years* ago. They apparently gave up waiting for this "new" solution just around the corner and released what they had.

I apologize in advanced for a question that has absolutely nothing to do with Comcast, HDTV, or anything A/V.
Let's say that you'll be working for Comcast to improve the HDTV services in the South Bay. :) The alternative is to take Dumbarton, but that will cost you a few extra dollars, and the route may be longer than via 237.

I apologize in advanced for a question that has absolutely nothing to do with Comcast, HDTV, or anything A/V.

I'm starting a new job tomorrow and I need to go to the company HQ in Palo Alto for the day. Living in the Walnut Creek area, I'm trying to find the best way down. Google and MapQuest want me to take 680 all the way down to the 237, cross over and go north on the 101. That seems way out of the way. I will be 2 other people so I will be able to use the HOV lanes. Any advise from those commuters out there?
I would probably take the 680 route even though it is probably longer distance than the 580/880/dumbarton route because 580 west is a mess in the morning and 580 east is a mess in the afternoon.

Thanks, guys. I'll go the 237 route and give myself some extra time just in case. Thanks!

If Comcast is required to use CableCards in their own boxes, they have an incentive to make sure the cards work and to make sure their people know how to support them. Right now, they have absolutely no incentive to do either.

Comcast's boxes - from Motorola
The CableCard - from Motorola

Of course they'll work - engineer those two things to work together and there's no issue. It's all those other interpretations of CableCard that will (still?) suffer.

Tech's will tell ya, some TVs are a piece of cake to get a CCard to work on. Others totally stink. Help me understand who's fault it is?

Thanks, guys. I'll go the 237 route and give myself some extra time just in case. Thanks!

Hmmm - 237, Great America Pkwy, Bowers, turn right at JITB, round the corner is the Comcast office

I'm starting a new job tomorrow and I need to go to the company HQ in Palo Alto for the day. Living in the Walnut Creek area, I'm trying to find the best way down.

Here's how I'd go: I'd take 680S to the 84 West exit in Sunol to Niles Canyon Rd. Then follow the 84 west signs to the Dumbarton bridge and take that over the bay to Palo Alto.

Hmmm - 237, Great America Pkwy, Bowers, turn right at JITB, round the corner is the Comcast office

Hahaha. I can tell you with great certainty that Comcast is not my new employer. But if they were, you'd be the first to know. :D

Here's how I'd go: I'd take 680S to the 84 West exit in Sunol to Niles Canyon Rd. Then follow the 84 west signs to the Dumbarton bridge and take that over the bay to Palo Alto.

This is what I was thinking. I wasn't sure though how Niles Canyon/city streets would be during the morning commute.

what is 720 gonna show 2morrow at 7:30?? stars vs sharks or ucla vs oregon? i couldn't care less about hockey and love to watch pac10 bball. YES, i know ucla vs oregon isn't on hdsportsguide.com, but i saw the promos for the FSNHD telecast during the furd zag game. omg is it time to get a FSN+HD? :D one can only dream.

This is what I was thinking. I wasn't sure though how Niles Canyon/city streets would be during the morning commute.

680S over the Sunol grade is usually a parking lot between 7:00-9:00am. You can bypass all that by taking Niles Canyon.

The alternative is to take Dumbarton, but that will cost you a few extra dollars, and the route may be longer than via 237.I wouldn't fancy doing the Dumbarton in that direction during the commute hours. I really wouldn't want to commute in that direction at all, the problem is a lot of people do.

Thanks for the advice and list. I was reading some old posts and thought about signal strength since I'm splitting my signal up 3 times before it reaches my computer. It worked when I connected my Mac directly to the original line. :cool: I get the network channels and some others that I still have to figure out what they are. I guess Radio Shack signal boosters aren't that great. :rolleyes: I'm going to get a Motorola one that someone else uses here.

One odd thing is that I thought HD was 16:9 widescreen. Yet all the networks except KCRA (Channel 3 NBC) are shown in 4:3. Is this right? I noticed the Audio menu has new Dolby Digital and Dolby Spanish audio selections. Does that mean I'm getting an HD signal? I assume it is since the Maglia unit only receives digital TV.


i have the exact same setup as you, and i get lots of stuff including what you desire (i'm guessing). i don't have time to type the whole list, but you should get the following HD channels via QAM:

SOP 679, 555 mhz = 702
SOP 613, 747 MHZ = 703
SOP 597, 717 MHZ = 704
SOP 690, 555 MHZ = 705
SOP 687, 753 MHZ = 707
SOP 688, 709 MHZ = 709

at least, those are what i am getting Santa Clara in the clear on my Miglia unit. hopefully this helps and your numbers are similar. if not, i urge you to rescan and carefully go through each channel during prime time and have it display "normal size" to determine the HD ones in an obvious way. beyond using my numbers, i don't think there is any easy way to set up the box except in a labor intensive fashion (it took me a few hours to wade through all the music stations and stuff and figure out which stations to assign with the EPG guide...in the end, it all worked and it's been a nice PVR for me for my minimal TV watching usage. (i was using firewire before with my 6200 box, but when they upgraded the firmwire, i could no longer "tape" 702 and 705, so i went this route and it works well...plus i now have a "TV" in my home office room. :)

for all of the channels i listed in the previous station, they always show in 16:9 even if show SD material (will have black bars), the other couple hundred stations show in 4:3.

i have no clue why yours aren't showing up as 16:9. what does it say when you show the details of the data (ie, "show data stream"): it should say 1080x1080 or 1280x720 for those local network HD channels. (as well as data rates O(15-20) Mbps) [again, this is true for KNTV-DT,KTVU-DT,KGO-DT,KQED-DT,KPIX-DT,KRON-DT...all of these stations are 1080i or 720p (KTVU, KRON, KGO).

BTW, even if the SOP numbers i listed before don't work for your locale, i had thought the frequencies should be the same unless you are in the 550 mhz regions...but that's a very uneducated guess.

Thanks for the advice and list. I was reading some old posts and thought about signal strength since I'm splitting my signal up 3 times before it reaches my computer. It worked when I connected my Mac directly to the original line. :cool: I get the network channels and some others that I still have to figure out what they are. I guess Radio Shack signal boosters aren't that great. :rolleyes: I'm going to get a Motorola one that someone else uses here.

One odd thing is that I thought HD was 16:9 widescreen. Yet all the networks except KCRA (Channel 3 NBC) are shown in 4:3. Is this right? I noticed the Audio menu has new Dolby Digital and Dolby Spanish audio selections. Does that mean I'm getting an HD signal? I assume it is since the Maglia unit only receives digital TV.

One odd thing is that I thought HD was 16:9 widescreen. Yet all the networks except KCRA (Channel 3 NBC) are shown in 4:3. Is this right? I noticed the Audio menu has new Dolby Digital and Dolby Spanish audio selections. Does that mean I'm getting an HD signal? I assume it is since the Maglia unit only receives digital TV.
Wait a minute, KCRA is a Sacramento or Stockton area channel, NBC is KNTV in the Bay Area not KCRA, so I think you might be in the wrong forum area. I might be wrong but that's the station that my brother watches in Stockton :confused:

Laters,
Mikef5

Keenan,

Did you hear that the launch of the new satellites for D*'s new HD is going to be delayed ?? Rocket blew up on the launch pad, not D*'s sat but a sat for an other country. This will prevent D* from launching all those promised HD channels. Someone said they saw Charlie Egan speeding away in a speed boat after the explosion ... :eek: :p

Laters,
Mikef5
I saw something about that but didn't read any of the details, probably was Charlie. :p

What channel is the NBC HD channel on in Sunnyvale on QAM?

I have a Tivo series 3 (no cablecards yet), and can't find NBC.. I found Fox, CBS, ABC (IIRC), and a few PBS stations. NBC would be nice, and though I realize it's not using the Tivo as meant to be used, I could actually see using manual programs for a very few things (I already did it for one PBS music show)... I may actually cringe and get cablecards..

(I know this probably sounds weird.. I'm one of the relatively few who got the series 3 *because* of the lifetime service transfer option, and do not actually have HDTV yet and am probably not likely to get it very very soon.. unless my TV dies.)
I'm not sure if you've found it yet, but I believe it's at 33-1, if my memory serves me correctly. I haven't checked in a while, but try looking there.

I'm not sure if you've found it yet, but I believe it's at 33-1, if my memory serves me correctly. I haven't checked in a while, but try looking there.
It really depends on the loop you are in and how your tuner sees the PSIP data. In my loop and with my LG 4200a it's 33-1 but with my Sony tv it sees it at 11-1 but these seem to be the way most loops are seeing NBC-HD so these are good starting points to look at.

Laters,
Mikef5

I haven't found it yet, and I had my Tivo S3 do a channel scan again during prime time, thinking maybe the QAM broadcast was off when I originally scanned.. didn't help.

I've gone through ALL of the channels it found and not found it.. Very strange, since as I originally asked, I've found the other stations.

I know, I should just shell out the dough for the cablecards.. But I don't wanna!! (no really, I probably *eventually* will.. but I'm getting a pretty decent analog signal.. it's more for playing around with it)

The QAM clear channels on Tivo can show up on some random channel, not always what you expect. Sometimes you might be able to tune it w/ the psip channel, eg 11-1 etc (use the "skip-to-tick" for dash.) otherwise it's on something random (no channel mapping.)

Cablecards should only cost you $1.50 for Tivo (if you don't have existing STB), so just go for it already :)

I haven't found it yet, and I had my Tivo S3 do a channel scan again during prime time, thinking maybe the QAM broadcast was off when I originally scanned.. didn't help.

I've gone through ALL of the channels it found and not found it.. Very strange, since as I originally asked, I've found the other stations.

I know, I should just shell out the dough for the cablecards.. But I don't wanna!! (no really, I probably *eventually* will.. but I'm getting a pretty decent analog signal.. it's more for playing around with it)

FWIW I see NBC-HD on QAM in Sunnyvale at 33.1 on both my Aquos and Sony DVR. (Was at 11.1 many many months ago.)

Jim

I haven't found it yet, and I had my Tivo S3 do a channel scan again during prime time, thinking maybe the QAM broadcast was off when I originally scanned.. didn't help.

I've gone through ALL of the channels it found and not found it.. Very strange, since as I originally asked, I've found the other stations.


Comcast doesn't transmit proper PSIP in all areas. For example, in mine I get KNTV at 747Mhz. But pointing my analyzer at the transport stream, the PSIP pids are completely absent. The only way to get the info is via OOB and for that you need cablecards. Luckily my MPEG demuxer (and my TV too, for that matter) can glean the audio/video streams just based on the program number in the PAT/PMT. I don't have much experience with the S3, but looks like it has limitations.


I know, I should just shell out the dough for the cablecards.. But I don't wanna!! (no really, I probably *eventually* will.. but I'm getting a pretty decent analog signal.. it's more for playing around with it)

What's the point of Tivo S3 if you are primarily going to be using it for analog?

I had a 6412 which stopped functioning so I exchanged it yesterday for a 3416. When I hooked it up I got premium channels in the clear which I don't have on my account (I only have digital classic with nothing added but HD) But all the channels are out of order. I tried a reset to download software/firmware and nothing changed.

Now I am considering getting a second box that works 'normally' and keep this one as long as the premium channels last. (premium on-demand doesn't work) Below is a sample of what is going on. The first two columns are the channels according to the guide, next to that are what is actually showing.

Has this happened to anyone? What are the chances they will catch on to the extra services coming through?

440 NBAPC Fox Movie 506
536 SEDGW Cinemax Finalcut
555 HBOFW Encore Action
562 MAX-E FSC 401
566 AMAX ShopNBC
567 TMAX FCS Atlantic
578 SHOTw HBO-w 551
583 SHONe FCS Central
584 SHOFe FCS Pacific
702 KTVUD Fox News
703 DKNTV KTVUD (FOX) 702
704 KROND KTSF 26
705 KPIXD ABC Family
719 INHD INHD
720 FSNHD FSNHD
721 VSGLF Indieplex
722 DHDTV DHDTV
723 ESPND CBS-HD
724 ES2HD NBC-HD
725 tba INHD slate
726 TNTHD ESPNHD
727 UHD KQEDHD (PBS)
728 MHD KGOHD (ABC)
730 HBOHD HBOHD
734 S-HDw PBS Sprout
736 SHOHD KRON
915 MC HBO Latino
940 MC DIY 204
960 KQED Comcast Sportsnet

I had a 6412 which stopped functioning so I exchanged it yesterday for a 3416. When I hooked it up I got premium channels in the clear which I don't have on my account

PM me with the serial and I'll let you know exactly why . . :D

If the account does not update it in several days it should go dark on it's own.

Now I am considering getting a second box that works 'normally' and keep this one as long as the premium channels last.

The box is very likely to be "fixed" within a day or two.

I'm not sure if you've found it yet, but I believe it's at 33-1, if my memory serves me correctly. I haven't checked in a while, but try looking there.

Thanks, it is there. I must have had a brain fart originally, and not actually flipped through all channels like I thought I did. I think I must have mentally skipped past the ones in the middle..

I already had 33-1, 33-2, and 33-3 in my lineup. Last night, 33-1 had NBC, 33-2 was blank, and 33-3 was local weather.

Now I'm only curious if the digital versions of KTEH/KCSM are there too, but if not, I don't really care at the moment.

What's the point of Tivo S3 if you are primarily going to be using it for analog?

That's a valid question.

*Currently*, I intend to use it for analog, but at some point, I'm sure I'll have an HDTV, and want to be able to record in HD.

The lifetime transfer option was ABSOLUTELY what got me to buy now rather than later. (Based upon the others on tivocommunity, I am FAR from the only one.) I would FAR rather pay a ton of money now, to avoid paying a monthly fee later. In other words, with the demise of lifetime subscriptions as a standard option, I would be unlikely to get another Tivo.

Things like switched digital video are certainly somewhat worrisome for the future, but basically, I'm "gambling" now that my S3 + lifetime will (1) be useful in the meantime, and (2) be useful for more HD in the future.

*Currently*, I intend to use it for analog, but at some point, I'm sure I'll have an HDTV, and want to be able to record in HD.

I bought my first S3 before having a HDTV, and the quality was much much better than the analog channels. $1.50/month for CableCards is well worth the price.

Thanks, it is there. I must have had a brain fart originally, and not actually flipped through all channels like I thought I did. I think I must have mentally skipped past the ones in the middle..

I already had 33-1, 33-2, and 33-3 in my lineup. Last night, 33-1 had NBC, 33-2 was blank, and 33-3 was local weather.

Now I'm only curious if the digital versions of KTEH/KCSM are there too, but if not, I don't really care at the moment.
The reason 33-2 probably went blank is because that's ESPN-HD which is an encrypted channel. Would be nice if it was in the clear but not likely to happen ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

Motorola's DCH3416 M-Card-enabled HD DVR
(http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/02/02/motorolas-dch3416-m-card-enabled-hd-dvr/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/02/motorola_dch3416_440.jpg
hmmmmmmmmmm

Whoa, that design is very striking, a lot better than the current one.

I use Comcast in Cupertino and I have a mythtv setup with a digital tuner. I was able to successfully find the frequencies for ~50 of the ADS (Analog-Digital Simulcast) channels, but there are a few more that I am looking for. My Motoroloa DCT-6200 STB isn't capable to tuning the ADS channels, so I am hoping that someone else out there can use their STB to provide me the frequency for the following ADS channels:

37 - TNT (Turner Network TV)
41 - Turner Broadcasting Sytems
42 - USA
43 - MTV
45 - Spike TV
46 - Lifetime
47 - A&E
48 - Bravo
64 - E! Entertainment Television
68 - Sci-Fi Channel

Or perhaps there is someone out there that has already found these and has an appropraite "channels.conf" config file you can share :) Either way, any help is appreciated.

Marc

All those channels are likely to be encrypted.

The freq.s will vary according to location, that's why a master list isn't generally kept around here....

That said, the 6200 IS capable of tuning in ADS channels (digitally). Mine does, and started doing so after I added a 3412 (all-digital, DVR box).

Does anyone know what Comcast charges for a 2nd TiVo S3? That would be 2 CableCARDs in the first S3 ($1.50 for the 2nd CC). The cost of the 2 CCs in the second S3 is what I'm interested in.

There might even be 2 answers, what they theoretically charge, and what they actually charge.

Should be the standard outlet fee + $1.50.

Hmm, something seems off to me. For your 2nd piece of equipment you pay the same price regardless of whether you provide your own equipment, in this case $600+ out of your own pocket? It is clear the "outlet fee" is just subsidizing Comcast STB rental and they are just playing a shell game renaming the fee so really I think they should waive that fee when you provide your own equipment.

I'm just thinking out loud, not criticizing your response (I know you are just the messenger)

I have two and I pay $1.50 for each S3.

On the latest price sheet(effective January 1st, 2007) it lists under equipment:

CableCARD (TiVo Series 3-2nd Card)...........$1.50

zalusky, are you paying an Additional Outlet Fee?

Nope. My provider interpreted it to mean the Tivo Series 3 - 2 cards
They originally were charging $6.95 on all cards but the first but I got the service manager and he found a corporate bulletin from last october that impiied this. I am not saying anything more to upset the apple cart.

Besides the $6.95 typically is a fee that pays for the basic HW rental so I can see it since I am not depreciating any of their HW assets.

I'm located in emeryville, Just got comcast hd the past weekend.

I had TNTHD for the weekend, but now it's gone. There is a new 725 that shows nothing but inhd logo the whole time....I want nba all star in HD. Anyone else have problem? please post your hd chan lineup. UniHD and MTVHD also not authorized for me. Do I need to pay extra for those? I only have espn1/2 discovery, inhd, and a fsnhd that only shows logo.

Another topic: Why does comcast make people to pay 10.89 for "jade" channel. Charter in LA has that channel included in expanded cable. So there are no chinese channels included in expanded cable? that sucks.

supaet,
You'll need to get Digital Classic tier at $11.95/mo. for the HD channels that you don't have anymore. When you get an HD STB it usually comes pre-authorized for those channels for a limited time.

Hmm, something seems off to me. For your 2nd piece of equipment you pay the same price regardless of whether you provide your own equipment, in this case $600+ out of your own pocket? It is clear the "outlet fee" is just subsidizing Comcast STB rental and they are just playing a shell game renaming the fee so really I think they should waive that fee when you provide your own equipment.

That's my interpretation of their fee structure. I'm not actually paying for 4 CableCards. The 1st CableCard for each outlet is "free" because that replaces the STB. Basically, for each outlet fee, you get either a STB or a CableCard. If you rent a DVR for the second outlet, Comcast would charge you the outlet fee + DVR rental.

supaet,
You'll need to get Digital Classic tier at $11.95/mo. for the HD channels that you don't have anymore. When you get an HD STB it usually comes pre-authorized for those channels for a limited time.


um...isn't espn1/2, inhd, discovery part of the digital classic? Also, I never had MTVHD and universal HD. The only channel that dissapeared is TNTHD (also the hbo's of course)
I belive I have the digital cable that includes digital classic already

um...isn't espn1/2, inhd, discovery part of the digital classic? Also, I never had MTVHD and universal HD. The only channel that dissapeared is TNTHD (also the hbo's of course)
I belive I have the digital cable that includes digital classic alreadyIf you already have Digital Classic then you'll need to call Comcast and have them check it out. Some of the HD channels (like ESPN-HD in my area) are not encrypted so you can get them without Digital Classic. Those unencrypted channels can vary from location to location.

If you already have Digital Classic then you'll need to call Comcast and have them check it out. Some of the HD channels (like ESPN-HD in my area) are not encrypted so you can get them without Digital Classic. Those unencrypted channels can vary from location to location.


Can anyone tell me what HD non-premium chanels they have with digital classic and location?

And why is the channel lineup site is down on comcast.

I have been wondering about TNTHD myself. I have two Tivo S3's and subscribe to Digital Platinum.

I had TNTHD for a while and now it acts like its unsubscribed. I figure out later that FMC - Fox Movie Channel is not part of Platinum but If I get TNT why shouldnt I get TNTHD?
I get other channels like UHD, HBOHD, ...

mike5f. keenan, sfhub, anyone. i'm in saramilgatos so i figure it's 2 years before the upgrade is complete and operational. so after reading this thread and seeing that dish had a contract with fsnba, i signed up with dish for 20 months for their hd package. now i find out there is no fsnba. what gives? i can survive without the warriors or sharks but i cannot make it without my giants games, even if they suck this year again. am i screwed or there just a delay in getting fsnba up and running at dish?

I am in Moraga and have a 3412 DVR. I've noticed channels such as TNT showing programs where the guide shows DD 5.1, my receiver shows a 5.1 signal, but there is nothing on the L and R surrounds.

This is always true of TNT
Sometimes true of UHD and NBC and ABC and CBS. Fox seems OK.

I am not talking about DD but DD 5.1 Sometimes the guide shows 5.1 when you first hit the channel and then changes to DD. The receiver shows DD. I think thats OK.

I am talking about DD 5.1 on the guide, the info screen on the channel and the status screen on the receiver all showing DD 5.1 or 3/2.1, and the side surrounds having nothing.

To check this if INHD2 is a still logo screen with music in your feed, it has the 5.1 flag and the music is present in all five channels.

Comcast first tried the user error bit. Then rolled a truck, called the office twice and agreed that my equipment was set up correctly. The tech put in a new 3412- no change. He promised to take the problem up with more knowledgable staff and get back to me. Of course no one has called.

I asked my neighbor if he had problems. He said no and invited me in for a look. Sure enough it said 5.1 but nothing on the left or right on TNT or UHD. OK on 24 Hrs, but not on NBC. He called later to say the Law and Order seemed to be OK. I've posted in another thread and found one person with the same problem and the only common factor is Comcast and a digital box.

Is anyone else in the Bay Area having the problem-- a program you know to have a 5.1 sound track, a 5.1 logo on the guide screen, and your receiver picking up the DD 5.1 flag, but nothing actual on the front surrounds?

I excluded rear surrounds as they may have matrixed sounds derived from the front if you are using PL2x.

I noticed this when Gwen Sefani was on Letterman a couple of weeks ago (1/25/07), and also had some breakups and freezes during the Super Bowl, and one else see it? I even check OTA, and both OTA and Comcast showed the same frozen frame for Letterman. Since things cleared up for the SB I just let it go but wondered if anyone else was/is seeing them (in Mountain View).

I really need the channel lineup for my area, I dont want to guess which channel I supposed to have and it's not there

mike5f. keenan, sfhub, anyone. i'm in saramilgatos so i figure it's 2 years before the upgrade is complete and operational. so after reading this thread and seeing that dish had a contract with fsnba, i signed up with dish for 20 months for their hd package. now i find out there is no fsnba. what gives? i can survive without the warriors or sharks but i cannot make it without my giants games, even if they suck this year again. am i screwed or there just a delay in getting fsnba up and running at dish?
Mr. Wally,
What city are you in ?? The upgrades for the 550 MHz areas are in progress in some areas. The time frame for completing the upgrades is 18 months for all areas. You have to remember that all schedules are not written in stone they can change, they could be completed sooner than expected if things go right or it could take longer if things don't go well. The real hold up is getting paper work and permissions to pull new fiber from the different cities and to do the actual upgrades and all the testing required before they put the system on line. I'm sure when Comcast finally gets an upgrade schedule for when each area will be done they will make it public and you can be sure I'll be following this closely ;) .

Dish has been promising FSNBA-HD for along time now but I don't see it coming any time soon. While Dish does have a lot of HD content, I'm sure once all the upgrades are done more content will be added to Comcast, it's just going to take awhile but it will come.

Laters,
Mikef5

I noticed this when Gwen Sefani was on Letterman a couple of weeks ago (1/25/07), and also had some breakups and freezes during the Super Bowl, and one else see it? I even check OTA, and both OTA and Comcast showed the same frozen frame for Letterman. Since things cleared up for the SB I just let it go but wondered if anyone else was/is seeing them (in Mountain View).
I saw the same thing during the Super Bowl but I think that was caused by the massive amounts of rain and the storm in Florida interfering with the transmission of the signal.
As far as the freezes on Letterman, this is a long standing problem with KPIX that happens at different times, I've seen it during their newscasts and it's quite annoying but nothing seems to being done about it. I guess more people need to complain to KPIX about this to get anything done about it. It's not a cable problem either because I've seen it happen OTA also.

Laters,
Mikef5

I really need the channel lineup for my area, I dont want to guess which channel I supposed to have and it's not there
Did you go to the Comcast website and put your zip code in to find out what you are suppose to get for your area ?? I don't know how long you've had Comcast but you should've gotten a cable line up when they installed your cable, and when you get your bill it should be in that also.
EDIT--- I just read up further and saw that you said the lineup section on the site was down, sorry.....

Laters,
Mikef5

I noticed this when Gwen Sefani was on Letterman a couple of weeks ago (1/25/07), and also had some breakups and freezes during the Super Bowl, and one else see it?

I did a manual recording on my S3 (since I have no cablecards) for the super bowl, and saw my first huge breakups. I didn't watch the SB, I record it to fast forward through all of the boring game and watch the ads.. (whereas the rest of the year I record everything to 30 sec skip past the ads)

There was one section, I think during the ads, that it got REALLY bad and basically froze for a few seconds. Even going past it and back, there was a big problem in the signal.

I think I'm just not knowing where various channels are located in frequencies, because for the relatively short periods where I've looked at the digital channels, they're generally NOT breaking up.. despite the fact that I have tons of splitters, and the few times where I have had digital cable (on various promos), it was basically unwatchable much of the time.. (because I split to now 3 Tivos + one toshiba recorder).. and this is off of an already split cable in the house with cheapo Fry's splitters.

Dish has been promising FSNBA-HD for along time now but I don't see it coming any time soon. While Dish does have a lot of HD content, I'm sure once all the upgrades are done more content will be added to Comcast, it's just going to take awhile but it will come.

Laters,
Mikef5
It could be sooner rather than later, Dish apparently fired up some new MPEG4 encoders and have gotten 6 HD channels per transponder and evidently there doesn't seem to be any loss of PQ. I looked at Starz-HD the other day and it looks fine, may even look better than it used to.

I really need the channel lineup for my area, I dont want to guess which channel I supposed to have and it's not there
Go to the nearest Comcast office for your area and get a channel lineup card. If you had Comcast before the end of last year you should have, or will getting, a rate sheet that's sent out at the first of every year per FCC reg. It will have the current channel lineup as well. It usually comes with the bill.

Go to the nearest Comcast office for your area and get a channel lineup card. If you had Comcast before the end of last year you should have, or will getting, a rate sheet that's sent out at the first of every year per FCC reg. It will have the current channel lineup as well. It usually comes with the bill.

Or you can get it on www.comcast.com. Follow the Programming->Channel Lineup links on the home page. It'll prompt you for your street address and ZIP code and generate a channel lineup.

Or you can get it on www.comcast.com. Follow the Programming->Channel Lineup links on the home page. It'll prompt you for your street address and ZIP code and generate a channel lineup.
Yes, I think he was saying that it wasn't working for him though. It's worked every time I've been there.

It could be sooner rather than later, Dish apparently fired up some new MPEG4 encoders and have gotten 6 HD channels per transponder and evidently there doesn't seem to be any loss of PQ. I looked at Starz-HD the other day and it looks fine, may even look better than it used to.
I'm sure that eventually Dish will add FSNBA-HD. I think the problem with it not being available right now is do to allocation of bandwidth issues. There are too many FSN-HD areas on the West coast to be on one satellite ( to make them on 24/7) but maybe with this new encoder they can actually do it without having to share transponders. The way it was going to be implemented was that, let's say FSNBA-HD, would only be on line when they had a game scheduled, any other time it would be off air. That will work until you have a scheduling problem, more games scheduled than you have transponders for, now who gets bumped off ?? Could make that area really po'd and I'm sure that's why it hasn't been added yet ;) But, as you say if the new encoder works and doesn't degrade the picture quality then it's much easier to do and could avoid the scheduling problem. I hope they succeed, the more competition that cable has the more incentive they have to upgrade their system to match them, the customer wins :p

Laters,
Mikef5

It could be sooner rather than later, Dish apparently fired up some new MPEG4 encoders and have gotten 6 HD channels per transponder and evidently there doesn't seem to be any loss of PQ. I looked at Starz-HD the other day and it looks fine, may even look better than it used to.


I sure hope it's up by april. wanna see barry z. pitch in orange and black. dish just last week added a & e hd so there's hope.

Mr. Wally,
What city are you in ?? The upgrades for the 550 MHz areas are in progress in some areas. The time frame for completing the upgrades is 18 months for all areas. You have to remember that all schedules are not written in stone they can change, they could be completed sooner than expected if things go right or it could take longer if things don't go well. The real hold up is getting paper work and permissions to pull new fiber from the different cities and to do the actual upgrades and all the testing required before they put the system on line. I'm sure when Comcast finally gets an upgrade schedule for when each area will be done they will make it public and you can be sure I'll be following this closely ;) .

Dish has been promising FSNBA-HD for along time now but I don't see it coming any time soon. While Dish does have a lot of HD content, I'm sure once all the upgrades are done more content will be added to Comcast, it's just going to take awhile but it will come.

Laters,
Mikef5



i'm in los gatos. i figure by the time the upgrade is done, my dish commitment will have expired so i can compare what's the best package then. for now i 'm enjoying 27 hd channels plus locals (although about 10-12 of the channels i never watch). it will be hard to give up the dish 622 dvr. it is a thing of beauty.

Or you can get it on www.comcast.com. Follow the Programming->Channel Lineup links on the home page. It'll prompt you for your street address and ZIP code and generate a channel lineup.


I've tried for several monthes.
All it saids is "we're working to provide you with a channel lineup"
working for 3+ monthes? anyone in oakland/berkeley eastbay can post their hd lineup?

I've tried for several monthes.
All it saids is "we're working to provide you with a channel lineup"
working for 3+ monthes? anyone in oakland/berkeley eastbay can post their hd lineup?
What's you zipcode?

This is what I got for 94601, Oakland. I used a bogus address on Hegenberger.


All Channels
# Channel Name Interests Features
1 ON DEMAND ON DEMAND
2 KTVU-2 (FOX) News & Info
3 KNTV-11 (NBC-3) News & Info
4 KRON-4 (IND) News & Info
5 KPIX-5 (CBS) News & Info
6 KICU-36 (IND) News & Info
7 KGO-7 (ABC) News & Info
8 KTSF-26 (IND) News & Info
9 KQED-9 (PBS) News & Info
10 KTOP - Gov. Access News & Info
11 TV Guide Channel News & Info
12 KBHK-44 (UPN) News & Info
13 KBWB-20 (WB) News & Info
14 KDTV-14 (UNI) News & Info
15 KTEH-54 (PBS) News & Info
16 KKPX-65(PAX) Lifestyle
17 KCSM-60(PBS) News & Info
18 KSTS-48 (TLMD) News & Info
19 KTNC-42(Azteca) News & Info
20 KFSF-66 (TF) News & Info
21 KCNS-38 (IND) News & Info
22 KRCB-22 (PBS) News & Info
23 C-SPAN News & Info
24 C-SPAN 2 News & Info
25 KTLN-68(IND) News & Info
26 Bay Vision East (M-F 9Am-3:30PM/s-s 24 Hours) News & Info
27 Emeryville City Channel (Emeryville) News & Info
27 KDOL/KCOM (Oakland/Piedmont) News & Info
28 PCTV (Educational Access) News & Info
29 TV One Lifestyle
30 WGN News & Info
31 Home Shopping Network Lifestyle
32 KMTP-32 (IND) News & Info
33 The Discovery Channel Lifestyle
33 WGN Lifestyle
34 QVC Lifestyle
35 Food Network Lifestyle
36 FX Lifestyle
37 TNT Movies
38 ESPN Sports
39 ESPN2 Sports
40 FSN Bay Area Sports
41 TBS
42 USA Network Children & Family
43 MTV Music
44 VH-1 Music
45 Spike TV Lifestyle
46 Lifetime Lifestyle
47 A&E Lifestyle
48 Bravo Lifestyle
49 AMC Movies
50 The Learning Channel Lifestyle
51 Animal Planet Children & Family
52 ABC Family Children & Family
53 Nickelodeon Children & Family
54 Cartoon Network Children & Family
55 Disney Channel Children & Family
56 CNN News & Info
57 CNN Headline News News & Info
58 CNBC News & Info
59 Fox News News & Info
60 MSNBC News & Info
61 The Weather Channel News & Info
62 The History Channel Lifestyle
63 Comedy Central Lifestyle
64 E! Lifestyle
65 Court TV News & Info
66 Galavision Multicultural
67 Home & Garden TV (HGTV) Lifestyle
68 Jade Channel Multicultural
69 AZN TV Multicultural
70 BET Music
71 Travel Channel Lifestyle
72 TV Land
73 Sci-Fi Channel Lifestyle
74 Country Music Channel Music
75 Hallmark Channel Lifestyle
77 Access Television Network Lifestyle
78 InHealth
81 Versus Lifestyle
82 Golf Channel Sports
119 Sprout Children & Family HD ON
120 Noggin Children & Family
121 Discovery Kids Children & Family
122 Toon Disney Children & Family
125 Current TV News & Info
126 Nick Toons Children & Family
128 Bloomberg News & Info
134 MTV Jams Music
134 MTV Jams
135 MTV 2 Music
136 G4
146 LOGO Lifestyle
149 MoviePlex Movies
161 The Game Show Network Lifestyle
162 BBC America News & Info
164 Shop NBC Lifestyle
165 Oxygen Lifestyle
166 Fear Net Lifestyle
178 Weatherscan Local News & Info
180 NFL Network Sports
182 Fine Living Lifestyle
183 Style Lifestyle
184 SOAPnet Lifestyle
186 KNTV Weather News & Info
189 KQED- Encore News & Info
190 KQED- World News & Info
191 KQED- Life News & Info
192 KQED- Kids News & Info
194 KGO Plus News & Info
199 KFTY-DT News & Info
201 Discovery Home Lifestyle
204 DIY (Do It Yourself) Lifestyle
215 Nick GAS Children & Family
216 Nick Too Children & Family
220 Discovery Health Lifestyle
222 Fit TV Lifestyle
228 BYU TV Lifestyle
230 Trinity Broadcasting Network Lifestyle
231 Inspirational Life Lifestyle
241 TFC ** (Tagalog) Multicultural
242 GMA Pinoy TV Multicultural
243 Zhong Tian Channel** (Chinese/Mandarin) Multicultural
244 CCTV-4** (Chinese/Mandarin) Multicultural
245 TV Japan** (Japanese) Multicultural
246 Zee TV** (South Asian) Multicultural
247 TV Asia** (South Asian) Multicultural
248 Saigon Broadcasting Network** (Vietnamese) Multicultural
251 CCTV International Multicultural
252 TV5** (French) Multicultural
254 RAI** (Italian) Multicultural
255 RTN** (Russian) Multicultural
256 ET-NEWS (Dragon TV) Multicultural
257 ET-Global (Dragon TV) Multicultural
258 ET-YoYo (Dragon TV) Multicultural
259 ET-China (Dragon TV) Multicultural
260 ET-Drama(Dragon TV) Multicultural
261 SET(Dragon TV) Multicultural
262 Jade Channel Multicultural
271 Discovery Times Lifestyle
272 The Science Channel News & Info
273 National Geographic Lifestyle
274 Military Channel Lifestyle
275 Biography Channel Lifestyle
276 History Channel International Lifestyle
400 Comcast Sports Net Sports
401 Fox Soccer Channel Sports
401 Fox Soccer Channel** Sports
402 ESPNews Sports
406 Outdoor Channel Lifestyle
407 ESPN Classic Sports
408 Speed Channel Lifestyle
408 Speed Channel** Sports
409 TVG-Horseracing Network Sports
409 TVG-Horseracing Network ** Sports
413 Fox College Sports - Atlantic Sports
413 Fox College Sports - Atlantic ** Sports
414 Fox College Sports - Central Sports
414 Fox College Sports - Central ** Sports
415 Fox College Sports - Pacific Sports
415 Fox College Sports - Pacific ** Sports
416 NBA TV Sports
416 NBA TV ** Sports
417 NFL Network Sports
418 College Sports TV(CSTV) Sports
421 - 426 Sports Pay-Per-View Pay-Per-View
439 NBA TV Sports
440 NBA.Com Pay-Per-View
441 - 449 NBA Pay-Per-View Pay-Per-View
461 - 470 NHL/MLB Pay-Per-View Pay-Per-View
471 CMT Pure Country Music
472 MTV Hits Music
473 VH-1 Classic Music
474 VH-1 Soul Music
476 FUSE Music
481 BET Jazz Lifestyle
482 Black Family Channel Lifestyle
483 TVOne Lifestyle
484 Great American Country Music
486 The Word Lifestyle
501 Turner Classic Movies Movies
502 WE: Women's Entertainment Lifestyle
503 Independent Film Channel Movies
504 Lifetime Movie Network Movies
505 Sundance Movies
506 Fox Movie Channel Movies
513 Indie Plex Movies
514 Retro Plex Movies
516 Encore Wam Movies
518 Encore West Movies
520 Encore Love West Movies
522 Encore Mystery West Movies
524 Encore Westerns West Movies
528 Encore Drama West Lifestyle
530 Encore Action West Movies
534 Starz - West Movies
536 Starz Edge - West Movies
537 Starz In Black Movies
538 Starz Cinema Movies
539 Starz Kids & Family Movies
540 Starz Comedy Movies
550 HBO - East Movies
551 HBO - West Movies
553 HBO2 - West Movies
555 HBO Signature - West Movies
557 HBO Family - West Movies
558 HBO Latino Movies
559 HBO Comedy Movies
560 HBO Zone Movies
561 Cinemax - West Movies
562 Cinemax - East Movies
565 Moremax - West Movies
566 Action Max Movies
567 Thriller Max Movies
576 Showtime - West Movies
578 Showtime Too - West Movies
580 Showcase - West Movies
582 Showtime Extreme - West Movies
583 Showtime Next Movies
584 Showtime Family Movies
585 Showtime Women Movies
586 Flix (Showtime Plex)** Lifestyle
586 Flix (Showtime Plex) Movies
591 The Movie Channel - West Movies
593 The Movie Channel Xtra Movies
600 VeneMovies Multicultural
601 Discovery en Español Multicultural
602 Fox Sports en Español Multicultural
603 Canal 52 MX Multicultural
604 Cinelatino Multicultural
605 History en Español Multicultural
606 MTV en Español Multicultural
608 CNN en Español Multicultural
609 Toon Disney en Español Multicultural
610 Cine Mexicano Multicultural
611 VideoRola Multicultural
612 CBTV Multicultural
613 Playboy en Español Multicultural
614 Once TV Multicultural
615 Canal Sur Multicultural
616 Infinito Multicultural
617 DOCU TVE Multicultural
618 Gol TV** Multicultural
618 Gol TV Multicultural
702 KTVU-2 (FOX) HD High-Definition TV
703 KNTV-HDTV High-Definition TV
704 KRON-HD High-Definition TV
705 KPIX-(CBS) High-Definition TV
707 KGO-HDTV High-Definition TV
709 KQED-HDTV High-Definition TV
719 InDemand - HD High-Definition TV
720 InDemand HD2 High-Definition TV
722 Discovery - HD High-Definition TV
723 ESPN - HD High-Definition TV
724 ESPN 2 HD High-Definition TV
725 HDSE (HD Special Events) High-Definition TV
726 TNT HD Lifestyle
727 Universal HD Lifestyle
728 MTV HD Lifestyle
730 HBO-HD High-Definition TV
732 Cinemax-HD High-Definition TV
734 Starz - HD High-Definition TV
736 Showtime-HD High-Definition TV
801 - 802 PPV Hits Pay-Per-View
815 - 822 Pay-Per-View Hits Pay-Per-View
831 Hot Choice Pay-Per-View
832 PPV Previews Pay-Per-View
844 Hot Network (Adult Pay-Per-View) Pay-Per-View
851 - 852 Spice (Adult Pay-Per-View) Pay-Per-View
853 Playboy Pay-Per-View
901 MusicChoice - Showcase Music
902 MusicChoice - Today's Country Music
903 MusicChoice - Classic Country Music
904 MusicChoice - R&B Hits Music
905 MusicChoice - Bluegrass Music
906 MusicChoice - R&B and HipHop Music
907 MusicChoice - Classic R&B Music
908 MusicChoice - Smooth R&B Music
909 MusicChoice - Rap Music
910 MusicChoice - Metal Music
911 MusicChoice - Rock Music
912 MusicChoice - Arena Rock Music
913 MusicChoice - Classic Rock Music
914 MusicChoice - Alternative Music
915 MusicChoice - Electronica Music
916 MusicChoice - Dance Music
917 MusicChoice - Adult Alternative Music
918 MusicChoice - Soft Rock Music
919 MusicChoice - Hit List Music
920 MusicChoice - Party Favorites Music
921 MusicChoice - 80's Hits Music
922 MusicChoice - Retro-Active Music
923 MusicChoice - 70's Hits Music
924 MusicChoice - Solid Gold Oldies Music
925 MusicChoice - Singers & Standards Music
926 MusicChoice - Big Band Swing Music
927 MusicChoice - Easy Listening Music
928 MusicChoice - Smooth Jazz Music
929 MusicChoice - Jazz Music
930 MusicChoice - Blues Music
931 MusicChoice - Reggae Music
932 MusicChoice - Soundscapes Music
933 MusicChoice - Classical Masterpieces Music
934 MusicChoice - Opera Music
935 MusicChoice - Light Classical Music
936 MusicChoice - Showtunes Music
937 MusicChoice - Contemporary Christian Music
938 MusicChoice - Gospel Music
939 MusicChoice - Radio Disney Music
940 MusicChoice - Sounds of the Season Music
941 MusicChoice - Musica Urbana Music
942 MusicChoice - Salsa y Merengue Music
943 MusicChoice - Rock en Español Music
944 MusicChoice - Pop Latino Music
945 MusicChoice - 90's Hits Music
960 KQED 88.5 Public Radio Music
961 KRCB 91.0 Public Music
962 KCSM 91.1 Jazz Music
963 KSJO 92.3 Spanish Music
964 KNGY 92.7 Dance Music
965 KRZZ 93.3 Spanish Music
966 KJZY 93.7 Smooth Jazz Music
967 KPFA 94.1 Variety/Berkeley Music
968 KBAY 94.5 Adult Contemp Music
969 KYLD 94.9 Hip Hop Music
970 KRTY 95.3 Country Music
971 KZBR 95.7 70's, 80's, Variety Music
972 KOIT 96.5 Adult Contemp Music
973 KLLC 97.3 Hot AC Music
974 KISQ 98.1 Urban Contemp Music
975 KUFX 98.5 Classic Rock Music
976 KSOL 98.9 Spanish Music
977 KFRC 99.7 Oldies Music
978 KZST 100.1 Adult Contemp Music
979 KBRG 100.3 Spanish Music
980 KIOI 101.3 Hot AC Music
981 KDFC 102.1 Classical Music
982 KBLX 102.9 Urban Contemp Music
983 KKSF 103.7 Smooth Jazz Music
984 KFOG 104.5 Album Alternative Music
985 KRPQ 104.9 Country Music
986 KITS 105.3 Alternative Music
987 KMEL 106.1 Hip Hop Music
988 KEZR 106.5 Hot AC Music
989 KSAN 107.7 Classic Rock Music

And I just did one to an address in Berkeley. The lineup looks the same.

And I just did one to an address in Berkeley. The lineup looks the same.

my zip code is 94608

can you do the line up for just expand + basic and digital classic,

I dont need the whole lineup, I just want to know which chan I should get with my subscription

my zip code is 94608

can you do the line up for just expand + basic and digital classic,

I dont need the whole lineup, I just want to know which chan I should get with my subscription
It gives two options, Emeryville or Oakland?

It gives two options, Emeryville or Oakland?

emeryville

"719 InDemand - HD High-Definition TV
720 InDemand HD2 High-Definition TV
722 Discovery - HD High-Definition TV
723 ESPN - HD High-Definition TV
724 ESPN 2 HD High-Definition TV
725 HDSE (HD Special Events) High-Definition TV
726 TNT HD Lifestyle
727 Universal HD Lifestyle
728 MTV HD Lifestyle "

Why is 726 - 728 "Lifestyle"
what package has that? i want those channels

Again, I do understand what they are TRYING to do by requiring Cablecards, and I support the basic idea. I'd be an idiot not to - the Moto boxes are shite!

I just think it's a circuitous route to achieve that goal, one that WILL increase our cable bills (regardless of, and in addition to any other increases) AND it still may not achieve the goals it's trying to.

After all, Comcast might be forced go about making sure Cablecards work better and are more well supported in their OWN STBs but that doesn't guarantee the same level of service with 3rd party STBs.

The only thing guaranteed is increased costs, for something that is entirely unnecessary (because current cable boxes work just fine without Cablecards, and adding one wouldn't give them any new abilities).

I mean, isn't there a better solution?

my zip code is 94608

can you do the line up for just expand + basic and digital classic,

I dont need the whole lineup, I just want to know which chan I should get with my subscription

I went to the Comcast Site and got this information from your ZIP Code and an address within the same ZIP. This info is from the Shop tab. "ESPN HD, ESPN 2 HD, FSN HD, Discovery Theater HD, TNT HD, Universal HD, MHD and INHD are offered as part of our Digital Cable Packages. You will need to subscribe to either Digital Classic, Digital Plus, Digital Silver, Digital Gold, or Digital Platinum in order to receive these High Definition Channels."

I believe in a prior post you said that you have Digital Classic. You should get the channels listed above along with the locals. If you still have problems and you'll have to call Comcast and have them provision your cable box properly.

John

Why is 726 - 728 "Lifestyle"
what package has that? i want those channelsI have Digital Classic (plus HDTV) and have been getting them for a while now, you don't?
Also 720 is FSN now, INHD2 is kaput.

After all, Comcast might be forced go about making sure Cablecards work better and are more well supported in their OWN STBs but that doesn't guarantee the same level of service with 3rd party STBs.
What are the chances Motorola/Comcast come up with a workaround for SDV using CableCARD 1.0 if they are forced to use CableCARD STBs starting July 07?

Now ask yourself what are the chances if there are zero Comcast STBs using CableCARD?

The mandate for Comcast/MSOs using CableCARD at least assures that whatever infrastructure decisions Comcast makes need to take into account making sure their own CableCARDs deployments are not left in the dust. As long as a feature can be done using CableCARD 1.0, TiVo et al can at least piggyback or reverse engineer that solution.

If you don't feel SDV is a big issue for TiVo S3 read these posts:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4848958&&#post4848958

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=113263

"According to the report, Comcast execs plan to have a quarter of their footprint enabled for SDV by the end of 2007, and launch "the next 50 channels of HD" as switched channels."

I don't think they will adding VOOM channels anytime soon. So, there are bound to be many popular HD channels that will be added. Popular in the sense of HD, not to the general subscriber base of SD channels, at least not yet. They probably think this is the only way to get a lot of HD channels on the air. Whatever the case, future Comcast HD is going SDV, and don't be surprised if the current HD channels go SDV, as well.

--

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4846037&&#post4846037

TWC Austin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a tivo s3 installed with Austin TWC and a whole bunch of channels are now on SDV, not just unpopular ones. I've had to install a Time Warner HD DVR in parallel just to get the channels I'm missing.


BTW I don't see why it is a foregone conclusion prices will increase. If people start buying their own PVRs and Comcast only has to carry inventory for $30 CableCARDs vs $500 Motorola 6412s why does that necessarily result in price increases. If CableCARD viability speeds up the transition to digital from analog, doesn't that tend to help them in the long run?

The STBs that Comcast uses may cost a little more in the short-term but that will go down as volume goes up.

Personally I'm not willing to accept at face value statements from the MSOs that the pricing will go up and they will pass it on to us. There is only so much room the pricing can go up before it starts driving customers to Dish/DirecTV, that's why it is nice to have competition.

Or you can get it on www.comcast.com. Follow the Programming->Channel Lineup links on the home page. It'll prompt you for your street address and ZIP code and generate a channel lineup.

The online line-up list doesn't tell you what you should receive as part of what package. As far as I can see on comcast.com, nothing clearly explains the packages, wheras that is about the only thing D* and E* do well.

For example, several new channels appeared in the last few months, but I can't tell if the are subscription or if my 3416 box has a problem. Actually, in know my 3416 has a problem as I have been getting HBO MAX and STZ since I picked up the box several months ago even though I am not on the premium plan. I've tried resetting the box to no avail.

Anyway, there are 3 new channels that are not authorized on my box:

UHD
MHD
one other in the last week or so.

Also, HDSE no longer seems to transmit anything at any time anymore.

The current online line-up list doesn't include the MHD channel or the other new one (sorry call letters have slipped my mind)

I guess I need to visit the local store and see if they know what I should be receiving.

Bill
in Alamo

I've got my 3416 connected to my plasma display via both HDMI and component. I've recently been using the component output because the HDMI PQ is crap compared to the 6412 I had up until a few weeks ago.

Tonight when I turned the system on, the box was displaying a frozen picture, no sound, and wouldn't respond to the remote or the front panel power switch. I unplugged the 3416 and plugged it back in after a few minutes. It came up with "Du1" (anyone know what this code means? It's not listed in the Wikibooks article) on the display and no picture on the plasma (but sound was OK.)

I tried several more power cycles, including leaving it unplugged for 15 minutes, but got the same result every time (no picture and "Du1" on this display). On a hunch, I unplugged the power and unplugged the HDMI cable from the 3416 and plugged the power cord back in. Now it came up fine with a picture (on the component output) and sound along with the channel number in the front panel display.

I tried another power cycle and plugged the HDMI cable back in, but got the same result as before (no picture and "Du1" in the display). Unplugging the HDMI cable restored things to normal operation.

Has anyone else noticed this? Many people have had problems with HDMI on these boxes recently, but I've never heard of the box locking up completely if an HDMI cable was plugged in, even if I'm using the component output.

Hey experts.....
I'm looking for some info & advice regarding Comcast DVRs, as I think I'm getting left in the dust here...... :o

I have an older (2001) RPTV so all I have available for my HD video connection is component cable. I've had the *original* (Phase I?) Moto 6412 since they were first made available to us in the Bay Area. Other than the known bugs, everything seems okay, and I was not planning on upgrading to a new TV with HDMI until my current set dies.

But now I'm seeing everyone here talking of Phase IIs & IIIs and 3412s and 6416s, cablecards, SDV, and the statement that Comcast is phasing out my DVR. Will I lose my DVR functionality from Comcast if I don't upgrade in the near-future? I'm happy with my current setup unless an alternate DVR will give me better video quality and/or enhancements, and more recording space (160G?) with fewer bugs. But like I said, I'm still limited by my TV to component cable connections (I use optical cable for my 6.1 audio). Am I okay to stay with what I've got, or do I need to upgrade? Any recommendations or advice as to what I should be doing?

.... and the statement that Comcast is phasing out my DVR. Will I lose my DVR functionality from Comcast if I don't upgrade in the near-future? I'm happy with my current setup unless an alternate DVR will give me better video quality and/or enhancements, and more recording space (160G?) with fewer bugs.

Your 6412 will not change, or lose any functionality. If you have one that works ok for you, hang on to it. Matter o fact, it will be flipped to all digital simulcast if it has not already done so.

Phasing out only means no longer being issued. The 67 Chevelle SS 396 was phased out, too. The only reason to switch would be for HDMI if you get a display that needs it.

is ESPN HD, channel 723here, screwed up for anyone else besides me? The video is choppy, the audio is choppy and its unwatchable.

the one time the warriors are aired on national television I cant even watch it in HD...thanks comcast!

is ESPN HD, channel 723 for me, screwed up for anyone else besides me? The video is choppy, the audio is choppy and its unwatchable.

the one time the warriors are aired on national television I cant even watch it in HD...thanks comcast!

just you. fine here.

eh i should put something down a little helpful. sometimes my dvr is causing the choppiness (but generally only on 1080i channels, no idea why), so i unplug it and it works again.

I tried, that no go. I even plugged in another HD box (i have a 6412 and 3412), BOTH of them are choppy. video/audio. I have never seen this happen before in the time I have had these boxes. This is a first. I dont understand how both boxes can have the same problem.

of course ESPN in sd works fine and every single other HD channel is normal, including ESPN 2 HD. :(eh i should put something down a little helpful. sometimes my dvr is causing the choppiness (but generally only on 1080i channels, no idea why), so i unplug it and it works again.

I've got my 3416 connected to my plasma display via both HDMI and component. I've recently been using the component output because the HDMI PQ is crap compared to the 6412 I had up until a few weeks ago.Component and HDMI pictures should be practically identical, either you have a bad box, or a bad TV.
Tonight when I turned the system on, the box was displaying a frozen picture, no sound, and wouldn't respond to the remote or the front panel power switch. I unplugged the 3416 and plugged it back in after a few minutes. It came up with "Du1" (anyone know what this code means?
That is HDCP sync (I think it's supposed to read "DVI"). Something is not working properly on the HDMI/DVI port, again either the box or the TV. I'd try the box on a different HDMI TV if you have one, otherwise have the box replaced by Comcast and hope that it's the problem...

I've got my 3416 connected to my plasma display via both HDMI and component. I've recently been using the component output because the HDMI PQ is crap compared to the 6412 I had up until a few weeks ago.


Try having only the HDMI connection connected to your tv set, nothing else and see if that works. Also, try having the tv on first then turn on the cable box ( or the other way around, it's been too long since I've had that problem :) ). It sounds like you are having a HDMI sync ( handshake ) problem. The only advantage that I see with HDMI is that sound and video are on one cable which helps with cable clutter, as far as a better picture quality, I don't see it better or worse.

Laters,
Mikef5

if anyone cares, after about 30-40 minutes ESPN HD returned to normal last night. no choppy video/audio like I reported earlier. I dont really understand why, but at least I was able to watch the rest of the warriors beat the bulls :D

Are DVR-like functions like pause, fast forward and rewind possible with OnDemand programs when using a non-DVR STB?

I saw this statement in an article linked below and was curious.

The studios listened this time, not only because DVD rentals have stopped climbing but because Comcast has passed a milestone: More than 50% of its 24.1 million subscribers buy the digital boxes that allow them to order PPV movies on demand (with the ability to pause, fast-forward and rewind).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9746037#post9746037
Hot Off The Press! The Latest Television News and Info - AVS Forum

Are DVR-like functions like pause, fast forward and rewind possible with OnDemand programs when using a non-DVR STB?
...Yes, at least on the DCT-6200 that I have and I think all OnDemand capable STBs. If the remote does not have the transport buttons (FF, Play, Rew, etc.) then the arrow and other buttons will do those functions.

Yes, at least on the DCT-6200 that I have and I think all OnDemand capable STBs. If the remote does not have the transport buttons (FF, Play, Rew, etc.) then the arrow and other buttons will do those functions.
Interesting, thanks.

Something I noticed after reading a post in another thread, Comcast has increased the DVR rental cost from $9.95 to $11.95 per month effective Jan, 1st 2007. That's quite a jump. Has anyone with the 6412 noticed that increase on their bill?

Something I noticed after reading a post in another thread, Comcast has increased the DVR rental cost from $9.95 to $11.95 per month effective Jan, 1st 2007.

That's just one of the many items which were increased: limited basic, expanded basic, digital classic, etc.

Something I noticed after reading a post in another thread, Comcast has increased the DVR rental cost from $9.95 to $11.95 per month effective Jan, 1st 2007. That's quite a jump. Has anyone with the 6412 noticed that increase on their bill?

Yes, as of Feb 1, my DVR went up to $11.95 a month. This is the latest Rohnert Park price list. I find it interesting that there is a TBD price for a DVR without HD.

That's just one of the many items which were increased: limited basic, expanded basic, digital classic, etc.
I knew they had increased their programing costs(they always do :p ) I just hadn't noticed they had increased the hardware costs, especially for hardware that has had negligible improvements over the years. Besides, generally speaking, hardware costs usually go down, not up...I guess that's not the case with Comcast.

I guess adding TiVo service to the 6412 will mean the DVR will cost about $20 or so a month, that's getting up there.

I did a manual recording on my S3 (since I have no cablecards) for the super bowl, and saw my first huge breakups. I didn't watch the SB, I record it to fast forward through all of the boring game and watch the ads.. (whereas the rest of the year I record everything to 30 sec skip past the ads)

There was one section, I think during the ads, that it got REALLY bad and basically froze for a few seconds. Even going past it and back, there was a big problem in the signal.

I had a similar problem recording the SB on a Comcast DVR -- occasional breakups (proably due to rain) during the game, and a massive breakup during one of the commercial breaks (due to who knows what).

Thought I'd share the pricing/programming quoted to me by the Comcast CSR this morning. I have a Tivo S3 with 2 CCs, Limited Basic and Digital Classic. My bill included the following charges:

Limited Basic: $14.77
Digital Classic: $11.95
High Definition TV: $5
HDTV Additional Service: $5
Digital Additional Outlet: $6.99

I called to get the last three items removed and replaced by the $1.50 for the 2nd CC. I was quoted $1.50 by two different CSR reps before the installation.

This morning, the CSR told me that without paying the $5 "High Definition TV" charge, I would not get any station in the 700 range (all of the HDTV content). I went ahead and had her remove it anyway, since I know that the networks are not encrypted. Has anyone else had this kind of conversation with Comcast?

I doubt I will lose the major networks since they are not encrypted. But I'm wondering if I'll lose ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD and FSN-HD b/c I'm not paying the additional $5 a month for "High Definition TV".

IGNORE THIS...as Keenan notes, i didn't read the query carefully. so my "real response" is that yes, the original poster should indeed get all of those stations without paying the $5 fee.

....CUT HERE....

based on my limited experience, you will lose ESPN, Discovery and FSNHD, not because of the $5 HD fee, but because you dropped digital classic ($11.95) which authorizes you for channels beyond the locals. (this of course, is not exactly true if you were grandfathered in with the $5 HD box from a couple years back)

.....CUT HERE....

Thought I'd share the pricing/programming quoted to me by the Comcast CSR this morning. I have a Tivo S3 with 2 CCs, Limited Basic and Digital Classic. My bill included the following charges:

Limited Basic: $14.77
Digital Classic: $11.95
High Definition TV: $5
HDTV Additional Service: $5
Digital Additional Outlet: $6.99

I called to get the last three items removed and replaced by the $1.50 for the 2nd CC. I was quoted $1.50 by two different CSR reps before the installation.

This morning, the CSR told me that without paying the $5 "High Definition TV" charge, I would not get any station in the 700 range (all of the HDTV content). I went ahead and had her remove it anyway, since I know that the networks are not encrypted. Has anyone else had this kind of conversation with Comcast?

I doubt I will lose the major networks since they are not encrypted. But I'm wondering if I'll lose ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD and FSN-HD b/c I'm not paying the additional $5 a month for "High Definition TV".

I don't think he was going to drop Digital Classic, just the last 3 fee charges. If he drops the last 3 he should still get everything he wants, at least that's the way it works up here. I think the CSRs are confused on how to actually bill him since he's not using one of their boxes.

ah, yes. my bad. you're right. he should be good if he keeps digital classic.


I don't think he was going to drop Digital Classic, just the last 3 fee charges. If he drops the last 3 he should still get everything he wants, at least that's the way it works up here. I think the CSRs are confused on how to actually bill him since he's not using one of their boxes.

I apologize if this has been answered before, but I'm at work and I don't have time to read the entire thread.

I have HD service in Sonoma County, with a DVR hooked up via HDMI to a 40" LCD, and a D5.1 stereo. I'm thinking of adding Comcast broadband to my service because I'm not happy with my DSL service from Sonic.

Has anyone noticed a degraded service on the HD when they're using the broadband? Comcast, of course, denies that this would ever happen. First, sign the contract, then we'll tell you, right?

Huh? How can cable modem degrade HD service?

Has anyone noticed a degraded service on the HD when they're using the broadband? Comcast, of course, denies that this would ever happen. First, sign the contract, then we'll tell you, right?

Bandwidth needed for the cable modem is insignificant compared to the entire spectrum Comcast uses for their services. If you get 6-9Mb/s download speed, that's still less than a single HD channel. So no, you won't see any degradation. What could cause degradation is splitting your line for your cable modem. If you need to, be sure to use a good quality splitter (1 GHz). An amplifier may be necessary too.

As of yesterday

Limited basic - channels 2-34 - $14.22
Standard - channels 2-84(74) - $48.99
Digital Classic - gives you the "free" HD channels - $11.95
HD Motorola box - $5 rental fee

What I really like is just 35-74 channels. Any package out there like that without getting hit with $48.99?

As of yesterday

Limited basic - channels 2-34 - $14.22
Standard - channels 2-84(74) - $48.99
Digital Classic - gives you the "free" HD channels - $11.95
HD Motorola box - $5 rental fee

What I really like is just 35-74 channels. Any package out there like that without getting hit with $48.99?
Nope, no way to get just Expanded Basic and Digital Classic, you have to get Basic before you can get anything else.

Hey, I've got a question about bitrates. Anyone notice this? I'm in Berkeley, CA.

I try to record TV shows so that I can watch when I'm busy with stuff at night. I usually record Heroes on Monday nights and watch 24 live, but this week I decided to switch thigns around. 1080i (NBC) gives me large files that I can't fit on a DVD. My past experiences with recording ABC HD shows like Grey's Anatomy and Lost gives me about 11mbps which equates to roughly 3.5gb or so for 43 minutes of TV (commercials are stripped) on a transport stream.

This week I recorded 24 because of the 2 hour special, and each episode after stripping commercials came out to be 4.7Gb. I glanced at the bitrate and it comes out around 16 - 17. That's high I thought especially for Comcast. I understand OTA will be high like this, but Comcast? I'm only complaining because I can't fit this onto a DVD (it's 4.7 GiB). I can't complain about quality because upped bitrate is nice, but it bugs me because my ABC shows come out to 3.5gb apiece.

Is anyone noticing this for 24? Is this just for 24? I meant to record House last night but I forgot to set my tuner. I wanted to investigate the bitrate. I guess I'm going to have to wait till Thursday which is my other 2-TV show night. I usually record Grey's Anatomy, and since the 3-episode special is on, I dont really want to miss it. But I need to investigate Fox still. So I guess I'm recording The OC and I'll have to watch ABC in SDTV at a friend's place =(

Another question is maybe other subchannels are getting into my recording? How do I check this?

i'm in santa clara, and this is from memory. i dont' think i've recorded anything from ABC yet, but _with commercials_ my recordings on NBC are quite close to 7gb (usually Studio 60, but like you i swapped Heroes this week and i think it was 6.8 gb)...these are for 1 hr including commercials.

If i recall correctly, FOX shows (for me 24 and Prison break) are closer to 6gb and i usually associated this more with 720p versus 1080i than anything else. if i remember, i can check the specific numbers at home since i still have this week's recordings on my hard drive. (i'm using a Miglia HD TV tuner on my Mac via QAM for the unencrypted HD locals)

i have looked at live stream stats and i think you're about right. i usually see 16-18 Mbits/s for all my recordings on NBC and FOX. (i haven't recorded anything over CBS or ABC)


Hey, I've got a question about bitrates. Anyone notice this? I'm in Berkeley, CA.

I try to record TV shows so that I can watch when I'm busy with stuff at night. I usually record Heroes on Monday nights and watch 24 live, but this week I decided to switch thigns around. 1080i (NBC) gives me large files that I can't fit on a DVD. My past experiences with recording ABC HD shows like Grey's Anatomy and Lost gives me about 11mbps which equates to roughly 3.5gb or so for 43 minutes of TV (commercials are stripped) on a transport stream.

This week I recorded 24 because of the 2 hour special, and each episode after stripping commercials came out to be 4.7Gb. I glanced at the bitrate and it comes out around 16 - 17. That's high I thought especially for Comcast. I understand OTA will be high like this, but Comcast? I'm only complaining because I can't fit this onto a DVD (it's 4.7 GiB). I can't complain about quality because upped bitrate is nice, but it bugs me because my ABC shows come out to 3.5gb apiece.

Is anyone noticing this for 24? Is this just for 24? I meant to record House last night but I forgot to set my tuner. I wanted to investigate the bitrate. I guess I'm going to have to wait till Thursday which is my other 2-TV show night. I usually record Grey's Anatomy, and since the 3-episode special is on, I dont really want to miss it. But I need to investigate Fox still. So I guess I'm recording The OC and I'll have to watch ABC in SDTV at a friend's place =(

Another question is maybe other subchannels are getting into my recording? How do I check this?

Nope, no way to get just Expanded Basic and Digital Classic, you have to get Basic before you can get anything else.


Can you get limited basic + digital classic?

I can't. The best they can do for me is $28 for limited + expand, +11 for digital classic +5 hdtv, for 12 monthes only

I'm only complaining because I can't fit this onto a DVD (it's 4.7 GiB). I can't complain about quality because upped bitrate is nice, but it bugs me because my ABC shows come out to 3.5gb apiece.

I think Comcast just gave you a reason why you absolutely positively can justify that dual-layer burner you've always wanted. ;)

Can you get limited basic + digital classic?

When I asked the Mountain View office, I was told no. When I called Comcast, they had no problem adding digital classic to just limited basic. This was a few months ago, so I don't know if their policy has changed.

Comcast does not re-compress, they just retransmit the original HD signal as they get it.

So, complain to the original channel(s). However I'm thinking, telling them to lower the bit rate so that you can burn their TV shows on DVD will probably not go over very well :)

...maybe other subchannels are getting into my recording? How do I check this?Google TSReader Lite.