<edit> But do you have any info what the status is of the tower and antenna upgrade for WUTB-DT 24? Is this station finally going to go full power any time soon?


Actually, I do have info about that.

WUTB has installed their high-power antenna on the tower, and tun the transmission line from it into the transmitter building.

They have their high-power transmitter on order - I don't know when it's supposed to come in, though...

There is also some electrical work that still needs to be done at the building that has not started.

If I were to guess, I'd say that they will be on the air full power by mid to late summer.

Question with anyone with Cox and a CableCARD and TVGOS,
If any of you have noticed, the former govt./leased access/public analog channels are being simulcasted onto digital channels to make room for new HD channels. Does this mean that certain stations that piggyback TVGOS info will be stripped of that info now that it has become digital?

Thanks,
--mapper

Does this mean that certain stations that piggyback TVGOS info will be stripped of that info now that it has become digital?

Thanks,
--mapper
Probably not until they actually turn off the analog version - which could be soon now that a digital version is available. Some digital chs might have some digital version of TVGOS but unless the receiving equipment can handle that (very few if any?) you're SOL.

WUSA had an announcement during the news that they'll turn off their analog transmitter 1:05AM to 4:30 AM tomorrow (digital to stay up) - wonder what that's all about?

My Comcast Basic in Beltsville has several of the local HD stations in channel numbers above 125, and some TV's don't scan the 126-135 channel numbers.
You should receive the same channels I receive. I find TNT on 127-5, A&E on 128-1, My20HD on 129-1, Golf on 130-2, Fox5 on 132-3, Fox45 on 134-1, and WB54 on 134-2 at the present time. The channel assignments change from time to time.
I hope this helps, but if your TV won't scan these channels you are out of luck.

Actually, I had given up after going through all the 107-X music channels and then not seeing much in the channels above that. Then tonight at a whim I started from the top and while nothing appears (at the moment) at 134-1 and 134-2, I got something called The Tube at 132-4, Fox5 HD on 132-3, The CW HD on 132-2, A&E HD and TNT as you mention, plus National Geographic on 119-1 and VSG as gomo657 mentioned. TNT though was showing some pixelation, though.

Thanks for the hints.

Neil

Actually, I had given up after going through all the 107-X music channels and then not seeing much in the channels above that. Then tonight at a whim I started from the top and while nothing appears (at the moment) at 134-1 and 134-2, I got something called The Tube at 132-4, Fox5 HD on 132-3, The CW HD on 132-2, A&E HD and TNT as you mention, plus National Geographic on 119-1 and VSG as gomo657 mentioned. TNT though was showing some pixelation, though.

Thanks for the hints.

Neil
Your report suggests weak signals at the highest channels. Do you have a signal strength measurement? I obtain a full signal strength and no pixelation on TNT.
You may find it useful to check your connection to the cable, and remove any splitters to obtain a stronger signal.
I had a weak signal which I assumed was because I have only Basic cable, and it is my impression that Comcast adds a filter to block the high frequency channels. I found it necessary to add an amplifier to obtain good signals. This has worked fine for the past year.

I'm in Sterling with Loudoun comcast(formally adelphia) and get almost nothing on clear QAM compared to you all.
Hmmm. I would think that if you have only a basic tier (no STB or cable card) you should get clear QAM transmissions of the broadcast HDs (ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.). I guess, however, that they're only required by FCC to provide the analog transmissions (at least until Feb 2009 when everything supposedly converts to digital.) Also, the ability to "see" those clear QAM channels could be a function of your ATSC/QAM tuner. Before I upgraded to a digital tier, my Sony HD-DVR found all the clear QAM stations (e.g., NBCHD at 1.12), but my Panasonic HD plasma could not.

Hmmm. I would think that if you have only a basic tier (no STB or cable card) you should get clear QAM transmissions of the broadcast HDs (ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.). I guess, however, that they're only required by FCC to provide the analog transmissions (at least until Feb 2009 when everything supposedly converts to digital.) Also, the ability to "see" those clear QAM channels could be a function of your ATSC/QAM tuner. Before I upgraded to a digital tier, my Sony HD-DVR found all the clear QAM stations (e.g., NBCHD at 1.12), but my Panasonic HD plasma could not.
I figured some of the channels you all were describing were on the HD Package. I have basic digital, but get no HD output from the crappy STB. I was just talking about locals like CW. They cutoff Discovery HD the other week, but I did a rescan over the weekend and got it back.

Your report suggests weak signals at the highest channels. Do you have a signal strength measurement? I obtain a full signal strength and no pixelation on TNT.
You may find it useful to check your connection to the cable, and remove any splitters to obtain a stronger signal.
I had a weak signal which I assumed was because I have only Basic cable, and it is my impression that Comcast adds a filter to block the high frequency channels. I found it necessary to add an amplifier to obtain good signals. This has worked fine for the past year. Our system is quite complicated, so a weak high frequency sounds pretty likely. Due to a problem possibly unrelated to this (I am trying out their free digital upgrade on another TV and that doesn't seem to be working well) someone from Comcast will be coming by tomorrow night, so I'll see whether that visit improves the situation or makes it worse.

Thanks,

Neil

WUSA had an announcement during the news that they'll turn off their analog transmitter 1:05AM to 4:30 AM tomorrow (digital to stay up) - wonder what that's all about?

Transmitter RF Sweep.

...could somebody post for me that FCC link that gives the final ERP's proposed for stations after shutdown?

Well, I had to go to the Firefox browser to find the answer to my above earlier question. The answer is at the below thread (Post #334) with the FCC link found at either the "Excel version" or the "pdf version".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9727777&highlight=Bill+Johnson#post9727777

<edit>

WUSA had an announcement during the news that they'll turn off their analog transmitter 1:05AM to 4:30 AM tomorrow (digital to stay up) - wonder what that's all about?

Funny... I had the WNUV analog transmitter off from 2:02 AM thru 3:50 AM on Sunday morning, and no one noticed... (at least no one called or e-mailed me about it). In our case, the tower owner was having the tower lights worked on.

Mark

Transmitter RF Sweep.
What's that?

Our system is quite complicated, so a weak high frequency sounds pretty likely. Due to a problem possibly unrelated to this (I am trying out their free digital upgrade on another TV and that doesn't seem to be working well) someone from Comcast will be coming by tomorrow night, so I'll see whether that visit improves the situation or makes it worse.

Thanks,

Neil
I will be very interested in the possible help from Comcast.
I also have the Digital converter from Comcast, but I am not using it. It converts the digital signal to analog, so an analog TV can still be used after the full conversion to digital. This has no impact on the QAM signals.

Funny... I had the WNUV analog transmitter off from 2:02 AM thru 3:50 AM on Sunday morning, and no one noticed... (at least no one called or e-mailed me about it). In our case, the tower owner was having the tower lights worked on.

Mark
I happened to be driving across the 41st street bridge the other day (I hadn't been up there in ages) and noticed that the building logo for channel 54 had been changed to CW. But instead of CW54, it's just CW. Is the branding for CW not including the 54, because it'll soon be CW40? If so, then when would that be indicated? If not, then what's the thinking up there on 41st street?

I happened to be driving across the 41st street bridge the other day (I hadn't been up there in ages) and noticed that the building logo for channel 54 had been changed to CW. But instead of CW54, it's just CW. Is the branding for CW not including the 54, because it'll soon be CW40? If so, then when would that be indicated? If not, then what's the thinking up there on 41st street?

The actual branding is "The CW Baltimore", but the lettering was going to be too small to make anything out from any distance except the "CW", so that's all we got.

I probably break some kind of rule with my e-mail signature because it says "WNUV CW-54, WBFF FOX-45" on it, but no one has yelled at me yet...

I figured some of the channels you all were describing were on the HD Package. I have basic digital, but get no HD output from the crappy STB. I was just talking about locals like CW. They cutoff Discovery HD the other week, but I did a rescan over the weekend and got it back.
Ahh. Sounds more like a function of the legacy hardware they inherited from Adelphia. I'd be nagging the heck out them about that.

Ahh. Sounds more like a function of the legacy hardware they inherited from Adelphia. I'd be nagging the heck out them about that.
I'm ultimately going to have to figure out what to do here very soon. I signed up with Adelphia because they were offering some insane digital cable package at a fixed price of $29.99 per month for a year. That deal ends for me in September. I checked and Comcast's price for what I'm getting now is over $150 per month. The prices are INSANE!!!! Looks like I may soon be living off of OTA HD soon. :(

Funny... I had the WNUV analog transmitter off from 2:02 AM thru 3:50 AM on Sunday morning, and no one noticed... (at least no one called or e-mailed me about it). In our case, the tower owner was having the tower lights worked on.

Mark

Did that cut off cable and/or satellite when you did that or are they fed another way. Since you are the CW feed for DirecTV across the country for those who don't get the CW locally, pretty heady responsibility there.

(And when is WNUVDT going to be on DirecTV, anyway?)

The actual branding is "The CW Baltimore", but the lettering was going to be too small to make anything out from any distance except the "CW", so that's all we got....

I'm sorry to have to so opine, but the name, "CW", hasn't caught on and, in my opinion, never will. WB had a history. And, for whatever we are worth in the TV marketplace, everyone over the age of about 40 remembers "the frog".

The prices are INSANE!!!! Looks like I may soon be living off of OTA HD soon. :(
When people realize what you can get OTA (vs. cable prices) you may have lots of company. :cool:

When people realize what you can get OTA (vs. cable prices) you may have lots of company. :cool:

A friend at work realized what he was paying for cable and how little he watched, so he dumped it and is going to give OTA a try. I've considered it, but I still have a lot of, gasp, SD content, that I enjoy watching! Now though, I more or less restrict my SD watching to shows I was already watching before I went HD. The good news is most of those shows are on many of the upcoming HD channels that D* has promised.

A friend at work realized what he was paying for cable and how little he watched, so he dumped it and is going to give OTA a try. I've considered it, but I still have a lot of, gasp, SD content, that I enjoy watching! Now though, I more or less restrict my SD watching to shows I was already watching before I went HD. The good news is most of those shows are on many of the upcoming HD channels that D* has promised.
I actually went 2.5 years without cable or dish not to long ago. Only reason I came back was because of an amazing deal I couldn't pass up. My sweet deal is over after this August, so I'm starting to look already.

For most of that 2.5 years I was watching HD OTA and loving it. If anything, being without cable/dish has cured me of the inane BS on ESPN. I barely watch it now.

I have an issue with FIOS TV in Montgomery County. A few weeks ago my D.C. NBC HD Channel had no picture and CBS was pixelated. A tech came out to the house and switched out my splitter. The problem went away for a day. It came back with intermittent pixelation on just those two HD channels. I thought I had a bad cable or buggy DVR but I was at my Mom's house yesterday and she has the exact same problem on her HD. NBC and CBS HD locals ONLY are pixelated. We both live in Kensington about a half a mile apart.
Is anyone else seeing this?
Is there something about CBS and NBC D.C. HD locals that would cause this?

Again, the splitter seemed to fix it but it came back after a day. So it seems unlikely it's problems with the transmission from those two local channels.

Did that cut off cable and/or satellite when you did that or are they fed another way. Since you are the CW feed for DirecTV across the country for those who don't get the CW locally, pretty heady responsibility there.

(And when is WNUVDT going to be on DirecTV, anyway?)

Well, Comcast and DirecTV are fed our analog signals by fiber directly from the station. Dish Network gets their signal off air, so they lost the signal while the transmitter was off.

For our HD signal, Comcast and Dish Network get our signal off air, so if I turn off the digital transmitter, they lose the signals. Verizon FIOS has a fiber feed from the station, and off-air receivers as back up (although the back up didn't work for WNUV a couple of weeks ago when they were doing maintenance on the fiber..).

I don't know what DirecTV's plans are for WNUV-DT.

Is the OTA signal for this channel weaker than the other D.C. major network affiliates? I get 4, 5, 7 and 9 just fine, and I used to have no problem with 50, but after some recent re-wiring, I do. I had to split my antenna signal because of the new multiswitch for the DirecTV HR-20's, and ever since I've had a problem with channel 50 on certain of my receivers. It comes in fine on at least one of them, although the signal meter only shows a 45. It comes up in the 90's, if not 100, for all the other channels. On other receivers, including my HR10-250's (HD-TiVos) I get an even weaker signal strength and no picture at all. There are of course other variables such as the cables, etc., but it came in fine before using the splitter.

Is the solution to get an amplifier of some sort? Will that cause any sort of over-amplification problems with the other channels that are already plenty strong? Do I need to adjust my antenna direction? According to antennaweb, it's only a few degrees difference from the other channels (111 for 50, between 114 and 117 for the others) and like I said, it was coming in fine before. Any help would be appreciated. Figures I'd have a problem with the only major local channel DirecTV still doesn't carry in HD.

Is the OTA signal for this channel weaker than the other D.C. major network affiliates? I get 4, 5, 7 and 9 just fine, and I used to have no problem with 50, but after some recent re-wiring, I do. I had to split my antenna signal because of the new multiswitch for the DirecTV HR-20's, and ever since I've had a problem with channel 50 on certain of my receivers. It comes in fine on at least one of them, although the signal meter only shows a 45. It comes up in the 90's, if not 100, for all the other channels. On other receivers, including my HR10-250's (HD-TiVos) I get an even weaker signal strength and no picture at all. There are of course other variables such as the cables, etc., but it came in fine before using the splitter.

Is the solution to get an amplifier of some sort? Will that cause any sort of over-amplification problems with the other channels that are already plenty strong? Do I need to adjust my antenna direction? According to antennaweb, it's only a few degrees difference from the other channels (111 for 50, between 114 and 117 for the others) and like I said, it was coming in fine before. Any help would be appreciated. Figures I'd have a problem with the only major local channel DirecTV still doesn't carry in HD.
WDCW-DT CW 50 (DT=51) is running at a lower power of 125 kW than the big four in DC which are at 813 kW to 1000 kW. The antenna height of 252 meters HAAT (height above average terrain) is in the same range as the big four in DC, so there is no height issue. I do not have any trouble getting WDCW-DT here in Sterling along with most of the Baltimore stations. Do you have any problems with getting WETA-DT PBS 26 out of Arlington?

Adding a splitter will weaken the signal. How many outputs on the splitter? The more splits, the greater the loss per output. A distribution or pre-amp can help. But first, what is you antenna setup? A larger antenna with more gain can offset the need for a amp. You should first try to tweak the aim of the antenna by shifting it to the left and right to see if that helps.

WDCW-DT CW 50 (DT=51) is running at a lower power of 125 kW than the big four in DC which are at 813 kW to 1000 kW. The antenna height of 252 meters HAAT (height above average terrain) is in the same range as the big four in DC, so there is no height issue. I do not have any trouble getting WDCW-DT here in Sterling along with most of the Baltimore stations. Do you have any problems with getting WETA-DT PBS 26 out of Arlington?

Adding a splitter will weaken the signal. How many outputs on the splitter? The more splits, the greater the loss per output. A distribution or pre-amp can help. But first, what is you antenna setup? A larger antenna with more gain can offset the need for a amp. You should first try to tweak the aim of the antenna by shifting it to the left and right to see if that helps.
Great info, thanks. I haven't tried WETA recently, so I'm not sure.

It's a 4-output splitter from Radio Shack. It was nothing fancy - I could spend a little more if a better one would help. My antenna is a Channel Master 4221 4-Bay UHF antenna. Pretty high gain on that one - I would have gone with the 8-bay but couldn't fit it through my attic access panel. It's mounted in the attic above my garage - not quite the top of the house, but close. I have a rotator so tweaking the direction a bit is no problem. My other signals are plenty strong so I'm sure I can afford to lose a bit of signal strength on those and not notice any difference. Besides, I get those channels on DirecTV so the OTA is more of a backup or for the occasional live TV watching.

Great info, thanks. I haven't tried WETA recently, so I'm not sure.

It's a 4-output splitter from Radio Shack. It was nothing fancy - I could spend a little more if a better one would help. My antenna is a Channel Master 4221 4-Bay UHF antenna. Pretty high gain on that one - I would have gone with the 8-bay but couldn't fit it through my attic access panel. It's mounted in the attic above my garage - not quite the top of the house, but close. I have a rotator so tweaking the direction a bit is no problem. My other signals are plenty strong so I'm sure I can afford to lose a bit of signal strength on those and not notice any difference. Besides, I get those channels on DirecTV so the OTA is more of a backup or for the occasional live TV watching.
A 4 way splitter will drop the signal strength by around 6 dB. I have the CM 4221 4 bay in my attic as well. I have a CM 7777 pre-amp, but I can get all the DC stations and 2 or 3 (IIRC) of the Baltimore stations without the pre-amp. The CM 4221 is aimed just south of the Baltimore stations so I can get the more distant Baltimore stations with the main lobe and the stronger DC stations at 50+ degrees off to the side.

Attic placements can be very sensitive to the right location, not just aim. I can move my antenna forward 6" (I have it mounted on a flat piece of scrap wood) and lose the weaker Baltimore stations. First, you should experiment with the aim and placement (if you can), to see if you can improve the signal strength for WDCW-DT, WETA-DT, and any of the Baltimore stations you get. If that doesn't work, then you should probably add a pre-amp. I got the CM 7777, but based on the advice of antenna installers in the hardware reception, you may want to consider the Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp. It is has low noise and a 12 dB gain whereas the CM 7777 can overload for close-in stations.

A 4 way splitter will drop the signal strength by around 6 dB. I have the CM 4221 4 bay in my attic as well. I have a CM 7777 pre-amp, but I can get all the DC stations and 2 or 3 (IIRC) of the Baltimore stations without the pre-amp. The CM 4221 is aimed just south of the Baltimore stations so I can get the more distant Baltimore stations with the main lobe and the stronger DC stations at 50+ degrees off to the side.

Attic placements can be very sensitive to the right location, not just aim. I can move my antenna forward 6" (I have it mounted on a flat piece of scrap wood) and lose the weaker Baltimore stations. First, you should experiment with the aim and placement (if you can), to see if you can improve the signal strength for WDCW-DT, WETA-DT, and any of the Baltimore stations you get. If that doesn't work, then you should probably add a pre-amp. I got the CM 7777, but based on the advice of antenna installers in the hardware reception, you may want to consider the Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp. It is has low noise and a 12 dB gain whereas the CM 7777 can overload for close-in stations.
Good to know, thanks. I have mine bolted down and there isn't much room to move it up there because of the roof slope, so other than rotating it, moving it would be difficult.

I'll play with the aim tonight if I get a chance. I'll have to check out the pre-amps if that doesn't work. I have no idea what they cost, but given that a) I can still get a good signal on at least one of my receivers (better tuner maybe?), b) I only watch Smallville and Veronica Mars (almost definitely cancelled) and c) it will supposedly be available on DirecTV by January 2008, I'm not sure how much I'll really be willing to shell out for one.

Good to know that about the Winegard - overloading the other channels that come in just fine right now was another of my concerns, if I end up getting one. I'll let you know what happens.

I'll play with the aim tonight if I get a chance. I'll have to check out the pre-amps if that doesn't work. I have no idea what they cost,
The Winegard and Channel Master pre-amps generally run around $50 to $60 plus shipping from the on-line dealers such as solidsignal.com or warrenelectronics.com.

Comcast moved NFL Network to the sports tier today.

I'm still getting channel 180 NFL Total Access. Is that supposed to be on the sports tier?

WUSA-DT is out on DirecTV

Anyone know why?

Comcast moved NFL Network to the sports tier today.

I love it!

I think that its funny that the NFL is complaining about this. First they move a bunch of games over their own Cable Network to make more money for themselves. Then they use this to strong arm their way on to every lineup out there (no foul there, business as usual), but then they get miffed when Comcast gets wise and moves the channel to a tier were comcast can actually make a buck off of their maneuver to force fans on to their channel.

The best part was when Comcast won the lawsuit. Because that means that the NFL network lawyers did not get their contract right when they signed with Comcast. hehe.

I also still have the NFL network. I didn't realize there were two separate channels. All I know is I'm not paying for a sports tier.

I'm still getting channel 180 NFL Total Access. Is that supposed to be on the sports tier?

It is in Baltimore.

Is there something about CBS and NBC D.C. HD locals that would cause this? Could be. The Baltimore versions of these HD locals look a lot better on my QAM cable feed (and previously when trying with antenna over the air, but that might be because the Baltimore transmitters are closer).

Neil
(in Bowie)

I will be very interested in the possible help from Comcast.
I also have the Digital converter from Comcast, but I am not using it. It converts the digital signal to analog, so an analog TV can still be used after the full conversion to digital. This has no impact on the QAM signals.Well, the cable guy came and fixed the digital converter box that is attached to our upstairs TV. He needed to put in a new splitter that allowed a return feed for communicating back to Comcast. So, now I have OnDemand on that one TV and a digital signal coming in there.

Unfortunately, this new splitter situation seems to have lowered the signal to my HDTV (and presumably my other regular ones). The 12X-Y and 13X-Y channels that I previously got now don't appear to be coming in anymore. The DC NBC HD channel looks really poor now.

One thing I was wondering - there is one TV that hardly uses the cable feed at all. If I unplugged that from the splitter, would that help the feed for the HDTV?

Thanks,

Neil

Can anyone tell me if the NFL Network (Channel 275) is in HD? I live in Harford County, MD.

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody South of Towson Gets York, Pennsylvania Stations OTA?

If so, what equipment do you use?

The reason I ask is that FIOS is coming soon to my house (they painted the ground to mark locations Monday) and I'm thinking of switching because it would be much cheaper than DTV.

Problem is I need the Sunday Ticket to watch my beloved Eagles.

The only other option is to pick up a FOX broadcast from Central PA, OTA. I know people in Timonium and Cockeysville, who can get these stations, but in Lutherville, I can't seem to do it with my CM 4221 in the attic.

Anybody else have any luck?

thanks,

paul

Hello,

I was wondering if anybody South of Towson Gets Pennsylvania Stations OTA?

If so, what equipment do you use?

The reason I ask is that FIOS is coming soon to my house (they painted the ground to mark locations Monday) and I'm thinking of switching because it would be much cheaper than DTV.

Problem is I need the Sunday Ticket to watch my beloved Eagles.
Plugging a zip code for a random spot south of Towson (21204) puts you around 85 miles from the Philadelphia stations. Unless you live on a high hill with a clear view to the NE, your odds at getting a reliable signal for the Phily stations are not good. IIRC, the terrain north of Timomium and Cockeysville is higher and those who get the Phily stations from there may live on the hilltop or ridges. Question is whether they get the Phily stations only at night. 85 miles is deep fringe range in most circumstances at best.

At those sort of ranges, you have to look at the CM 4228 or AntennasDirect 91XG UHF antenna on a mast on the roof to have a shot at getting the Phily stations. try tvfool.com and the kmz coverage maps for the Philadelphia stations combined with Google Earth to see whether you have a shot at all.

What has Verizon Fios put in your neighborhood? Have they run the orange tubes and put in the junction boxes in the ground? Or are the markings for the local runs to the houss?

Can anyone tell me if the NFL Network (Channel 275) is in HD? I live in Harford County, MD.
The NFL Network has an HD channel, although 95% (probably more) of it is upconverted SD. Who is your service provider? Comcast? DBS? Verizon Fios has the NFL network channel in HD, I don't know who else does at this point.

Plugging a zip code for a random spot south of Towson (21204) puts you around 85 miles from the Philadelphia stations. Unless you live on a high hill with a clear view to the NE, your odds at getting a reliable signal for the Phily stations are not good. IIRC, the terrain north of Timomium and Cockeysville is higher and those who get the Phily stations from there may live on the hilltop or ridges. Question is whether they get the Phily stations only at night. 85 miles is deep fringe range in most circumstances at best.

At those sort of ranges, you have to look at the CM 4228 or AntennasDirect 91XG UHF antenna on a mast on the roof to have a shot at getting the Phily stations. try tvfool.com and the kmz coverage maps for the Philadelphia stations combined with Google Earth to see whether you have a shot at all.

What has Verizon Fios put in your neighborhood? Have they run the orange tubes and put in the junction boxes in the ground? Or are the markings for the local runs to the houss?

Sorry, Meant to Say CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA, York to be exact.

Plugging a zip code for a random spot south of Towson (21204) puts you around 85 miles from the Philadelphia stations. Unless you live on a high hill with a clear view to the NE, your odds at getting a reliable signal for the Phily stations are not good. IIRC, the terrain north of Timomium and Cockeysville is higher and those who get the Phily stations from there may live on the hilltop or ridges. Question is whether they get the Phily stations only at night. 85 miles is deep fringe range in most circumstances at best.

At those sort of ranges, you have to look at the CM 4228 or AntennasDirect 91XG UHF antenna on a mast on the roof to have a shot at getting the Phily stations. try tvfool.com and the kmz coverage maps for the Philadelphia stations combined with Google Earth to see whether you have a shot at all.

What has Verizon Fios put in your neighborhood? Have they run the orange tubes and put in the junction boxes in the ground? Or are the markings for the local runs to the houss?

We have markings on the ground in front of everybody's house, along with a door knob advertisement saying FIOS is coming soon to your home. I haven't seen any trucks, but then again, I haven't really been looking either.

Well, the cable guy came and fixed the digital converter box that is attached to our upstairs TV. He needed to put in a new splitter that allowed a return feed for communicating back to Comcast. So, now I have OnDemand on that one TV and a digital signal coming in there.

Unfortunately, this new splitter situation seems to have lowered the signal to my HDTV (and presumably my other regular ones). The 12X-Y and 13X-Y channels that I previously got now don't appear to be coming in anymore. The DC NBC HD channel looks really poor now.

One thing I was wondering - there is one TV that hardly uses the cable feed at all. If I unplugged that from the splitter, would that help the feed for the HDTV?

Thanks,

Neil
I would try connecting your HDTV directly to the cable with no splitters to determine what channels are available. If you don't get all of the D.C. and Baltimore digital with this connection your only option is an upgraded cable signal. In the past when I was using analog signals only, I could sometimes get improvement by complaining to Comcast and have a technician do work on the outside cable. I have not complained since I started using QAM tuning to get the digital signals because I am not paying for this kind of service.

I have not complained since I started using QAM tuning to get the digital signals because I am not paying for this kind of service.
If you have any kind of service, you're paying for it - clear QAM chs included.

We have markings on the ground in front of everybody's house, along with a door knob advertisement saying FIOS is coming soon to your home. I haven't seen any trucks, but then again, I haven't really been looking either.
So you are close to getting Fios. It is that some people get excited when they see work crews laying down the orange tubes, but those are only part of the work that needs to be done to run Fios TV and Internet to the home.

As for your OTA options, you are closer to the York & Lancaster stations at ~ 43 miles and the Harrisburg at ~ 66 miles. Those may be doable with a rooftop antenna. You should check the tvfool.com resources to see what it has to say before spending time and money on a long range antenna setup. I assume the Harrisburg Fox & CBS stations would consider the Eagles to be the home team, but you should verify that.

So you are close to getting Fios. It is that some people get excited when they see work crews laying down the orange tubes, but those are only part of the work that needs to be done to run Fios TV and Internet to the home.

As for your OTA options, you are closer to the York & Lancaster stations at ~ 43 miles and the Harrisburg at ~ 66 miles. Those may be doable with a rooftop antenna. You should check the tvfool.com resources to see what it has to say before spending time and money on a long range antenna setup. I assume the Harrisburg Fox & CBS stations would consider the Eagles to be the home team, but you should verify that.
I am aiming for 1 station York, WPMT FOX. They do indeed carry the Eagles. I checked TVfool and it said WPMT was doable. Grey with an antenna 15-30 feet high, Red with a 40 foot antenna.

I currently have a CM 4221, but I've never tried it on the roof with an amp. Think I have any shot with that, or do I need to upgrade?

...so WUSA just came back a couple minutes ago, after being out for most of the day

Anyone know what they were doing?

Paul,

Lutherville is inside the predicted service contour for WPMT. But that doesn't really mean much. You either have a signal or you don't.

Can you see any sort of reasonable picture on analog channel 43, either with your 4221, or with rabbit ears anywhere in your house or on your property? If so, your chances at getting the digital signal are reasonable, either with a roof antenna and/or by finding a sweet spot. Good rejection of the WBFF adjacent channel may be as or more important than finding a good WPMT signal, though, so you may need a more directional antenna, and you might have to work quite a bit to find the right location for it.

But if you can't find the WPMT analog signal anywhere with what you've already got, forget about it.

Paul,

Lutherville is inside the predicted service contour for WPMT. But that doesn't really mean much. You either have a signal or you don't.

Can you see any sort of reasonable picture on analog channel 43, either with your 4221, or with rabbit ears anywhere in your house or on your property? If so, your chances at getting the digital signal are reasonable, either with a roof antenna and/or by finding a sweet spot. Good rejection of the WBFF adjacent channel may be as or more important than finding a good WPMT signal, though, so you may need a more directional antenna, and you might have to work quite a bit to find the right location for it.

But if you can't find the WPMT analog signal anywhere with what you've already got, forget about it.

I was testing this, probably while you were typing this! So, I can get WPMT pretty well over analog, with my 4221 in the attic. It's clear enough that it reminds me of what rabbit ears looked like for the Baltimore stations 10 years ago.

So, given that, do you think the 4221 is enough antenna? Should I move it to the roof, or 1st try a bigger antenna in the attic?

thanks again,

paul

We have markings on the ground in front of everybody's house, along with a door knob advertisement saying FIOS is coming soon to your home. I haven't seen any trucks, but then again, I haven't really been looking either.

It was almost 6 months after the ground markings before FiOS became available in our neighborhood.

I was testing this, probably while you were typing this! So, I can get WPMT pretty well over analog, with my 4221 in the attic. It's clear enough that it reminds me of what rabbit ears looked like for the Baltimore stations 10 years ago.

So, given that, do you think the 4221 is enough antenna? Should I move it to the roof, or 1st try a bigger antenna in the attic?

thanks again,

paul

If you can, stick it on the roof with a rotor. You never know what else you may get with it that way.

Is there anywhere I can get a list of what channels I ought to expect to get with a QAM tuner with Baltimore City Comcast basic cable? It would be cool to find more HD content if I could!

Well,

I went to Baynesville Electronics in Towson (Great place by the way, if you are in the area, I highly recommend it) and picked up a Winegard amplifier. The staff there, said it boost UHF by 26 db. I added it to my CM 4221 in the attic and got a huge boost. I can now get WPMT out of York over analog clear as a bell. I also picked up channel 49 an independent station out of Red Lion PA. Also, My DTV box shows WPMT flucuating at 25 percent.

I tried to move the antenna to my garage roof, and that made things worse.

So, anything else I should try before climbing to my 25 foot roof? I know that if I put the CM 4221 on my roof, I am almost assured to get WPMT and probably more, but it's a long climb!

thanks,

paul

I went to Baynesville Electronics in Towson (Great place by the way, if you are in the area, I highly recommend it) and picked up a Winegard amplifier. The staff there, said it boost UHF by 26 db. I added it to my CM 4221 in the attic and got a huge boost. I can now get WPMT out of York over analog clear as a bell. I also picked up channel 49 an independent station out of Red Lion PA. Also, My DTV box shows WPMT flucuating at 25 percent.

I tried to move the antenna to my garage roof, and that made things worse.

So, anything else I should try before climbing to my 25 foot roof? I know that if I put the CM 4221 on my roof, I am almost assured to get WPMT and probably more, but it's a long climb!
When you moved the antenna to the garage roof, did you try without the pre-amp? You are not that far from the Baltimore broadcast towers and using a strong 26 dB pre-amp may result in the signal from those stations overloading your ATSC receiver. If you put the CM 4221 up on the roof, be very careful! We don't want anybody falling off the roof here. :eek: You may want to try the antenna up there without the pre-amp first to get a baseline on what you can get with the antenna there. If you don't have one, a rotator for the roof location would be useful.

When you moved the antenna to the garage roof, did you try without the pre-amp? You are not that far from the Baltimore broadcast towers and using a strong 26 dB pre-amp may result in the signal from those stations overloading your ATSC receiver. If you put the CM 4221 up on the roof, be very careful! We don't want anybody falling off the roof here. :eek: You may want to try the antenna up there without the pre-amp first to get a baseline on what you can get with the antenna there. If you don't have one, a rotator for the roof location would be useful.

I'm pointing the antenna at 13 degrees, almost exactly opposite of the Baltimore stations at 226 according to Antennaweb. I'm not trying to receive Baltimore, as they are on my Directv feed. I just want Pennsylvania.

Are you saying that the Baltimore towers could be stopping me from pulling in WPMT-DT, even though I get WPMT Analog VERY clearly?

I was under the impression that if I could get Analog WPMT pretty clearly (especially at Channel 43 which is very close to WBFF 45) then Digital must be a few antenna adjustments, or a few db points away.

Am I wrong?

I added it to my CM 4221 in the attic and got a huge boost. I can now get WPMT out of York over analog clear as a bell.l

This is probably a really dumb question, but if you can get WPMT just fine in the attic, why not leave it there and not worry about the roof?

I'm pointing the antenna at 13 degrees, almost exactly opposite of the Baltimore stations at 226 according to Antennaweb. I'm not trying to receive Baltimore, as they are on my Directv feed. I just want Pennsylvania.

Are you saying that the Baltimore towers could be stopping me from pulling in WPMT-DT, even though I get WPMT Analog VERY clearly?

I was under the impression that if I could get Analog WPMT pretty clearly (especially at Channel 43 which is very close to WBFF 45) then Digital must be a few antenna adjustments, or a few db points away.

Am I wrong?
If the pre-amp overloads the Baltimore digital stations, it should only affect the channels they are on and possibly the adjacent channels. Since WBFF-DT Fox 45 is broadcasting on UHF 46, that may be an issue with receiving for WPMT-DT on UHF 47. But you have to see what happens with the pre-amp. DirecTV provides all 7 of the HD locals via satellite, including MPT?

As for WPMT-DT, are they at the full licensed power of 933 kW? See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WPMT. If they are still at the STA (Special Temporary Authority) power of 10 kW, then you are not likely to get the digital station. Can anyone here confirm the station is at their full licensed digital power?

This is probably a really dumb question, but if you can get WPMT just fine in the attic, why not leave it there and not worry about the roof?
I can only get analog. I can't seem to pull in the digital signal

If the pre-amp overloads the Baltimore digital stations, it should only affect the channels they are on and possibly the adjacent channels. Since WBFF-DT Fox 45 is broadcasting on UHF 46, that may be an issue with receiving for WPMT-DT on UHF 47. But you have to see what happens with the pre-amp. DirecTV provides all 7 of the HD locals via satellite, including MPT?

As for WPMT-DT, are they at the full licensed power of 933 kW? See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WPMT. If they are still at the STA (Special Temporary Authority) power of 10 kW, then you are not likely to get the digital station. Can anyone here confirm the station is at their full licensed digital power?

I only get my 4 local Baltimore Stations. I'm 40 miles from York, PA, so that's not considered "local" for me. That's why I'm trying OTA.

As for the interference from WBFF, wouldn't that apply to both Analog and Digital, though? The thing that gives me hope is that I can pull in both WBFF and WPMT crystal clear over Anaolog. I just can't seem to get the digital.

Why is LocalPoint TV not listed in Tribune's data (as used by zap2it.com, Tivo, DirecTV, et al.) like other local subchannels? I don't expect a full schedule, but just having it show the name of the channel would be nice.

I could try to get it listed myself, but, having been through that process before, I think it would go a lot easier if it came from the station.

I only get my 4 local Baltimore Stations. I'm 40 miles from York, PA, so that's not considered "local" for me. That's why I'm trying OTA.

As for the interference from WBFF, wouldn't that apply to both Analog and Digital, though? The thing that gives me hope is that I can pull in both WBFF and WPMT crystal clear over Anaolog. I just can't seem to get the digital.
Checking the Harrisburg, PA - HDTV local thread, WPMT-DT Fox 43 is at full power on their digital signal, to answer my own question. So you are ok on that. The analog channel in on UHF 43 which is one channel away from WBFF Fox 45 so there should be no interference between those two. BTW, there are digital stations in the region at:

DT 42 - WMPT-DT MPT 22 in Annapolis
DT 43 - WPXW-DT Ion/Pax 66 in Manassas, VA (90 kW and well south of you)
DT 44 - WWPB-DT MPT 31 in Hagerstown, MD
DT 46 - WBFF-DT Fox 45 in Baltimore
DT 47 - WPMT-DT Fox 43 in York/Harrisburg, PA
DT 48 - WRC-DT NBC 4 in DC
(yes, it is a crowded spectrum!)

You do have two adjacent strong digital stations behind the CM 4221 in WBFF-DT and WRC-DT to WPMT-DT on UHF 47. If you can't get a stable signal for WPMT-DT, there is a possibility that WBFF-DT or WRC-DT may be interfering with WPMT-DT because of the strong backside pickup of the CM 4221. But try the antenna outside first to see what happens. I just wanted to point this out in case you do run into signal lock problems for WPMT-DT. If that is the case, the solution would be an antenna with a stronger front to back ratio. What digital stations do you get with the CM 4221 aimed north with the 26 dB pre-amp installed?

Why is LocalPoint TV not listed in Tribune's data (as used by zap2it.com, Tivo, DirecTV, et al.) like other local subchannels? I don't expect a full schedule, but just having it show the name of the channel would be nice.

I could try to get it listed myself, but, having been through that process before, I think it would go a lot easier if it came from the station.

We are working on just that.

Comcast was so compressed tonight on their HD channels (I was watching Entourage on HBO) and even their digital stations (I was watching Downfall on Starz). Anyone else notice this tonight?

Checking the Harrisburg, PA - HDTV local thread, WPMT-DT Fox 43 is at full power on their digital signal, to answer my own question. So you are ok on that. The analog channel in on UHF 43 which is one channel away from WBFF Fox 45 so there should be no interference between those two. BTW, there are digital stations in the region at:

DT 42 - WMPT-DT MPT 22 in Annapolis
DT 43 - WPXW-DT Ion/Pax 66 in Manassas, VA (90 kW and well south of you)
DT 44 - WWPB-DT MPT 31 in Hagerstown, MD
DT 46 - WBFF-DT Fox 45 in Baltimore
DT 47 - WPMT-DT Fox 43 in York/Harrisburg, PA
DT 48 - WRC-DT NBC 4 in DC
(yes, it is a crowded spectrum!)

You do have two adjacent strong digital stations behind the CM 4221 in WBFF-DT and WRC-DT to WPMT-DT on UHF 47. If you can't get a stable signal for WPMT-DT, there is a possibility that WBFF-DT or WRC-DT may be interfering with WPMT-DT because of the strong backside pickup of the CM 4221. But try the antenna outside first to see what happens. I just wanted to point this out in case you do run into signal lock problems for WPMT-DT. If that is the case, the solution would be an antenna with a stronger front to back ratio. What digital stations do you get with the CM 4221 aimed north with the 26 dB pre-amp installed?

First of all, thanks for your attention and the detailed response.

With the 4221 pointed North at 13 degrees, and the Winegard Amp (at 28 db for UHF) I get only WBAL-DT but several Analog stations including WPMT.

With WBFF not showing up, I should be okay moving the 4221 outside, huh?

FYI, I bought a Radio Shack antenna today, a Yagi type with a 40 inch boom and 2 wings with 4 elements each. Their website had rave reviews for reception outside 75 miles. I hooked it up in my attic and things actually got worse!

So, it seems I've probably maxed out my options in the attic.

I may try the roof soon with the 4221, because it seems to do the best job.

So, it seems I've probably maxed out my options in the attic.
When it comes to attics and UHF digital, the 4228 is reported to be heads and shoulders above all others. And at my distances, I'm a true believer and this applies to upper VHF as well.

Is there anywhere I can get a list of what channels I ought to expect to get with a QAM tuner with Baltimore City Comcast basic cable? It would be cool to find more HD content if I could!You could go to TitanTV.com and customize for your service and area. It will present a full list of what stations should be available. However, you'll need to verify your eligibility for access to specific stations based on your subscription package.

YMMV

When it comes to attics and UHF digital, the 4228 is reported to be heads and shoulders above all others. And at my distances, I'm a true believer and this applies to upper VHF as well.

What are you pulling in with the 4228?

Something went wrong with channel 9 PSIP data this morning. I was watching the 12:00 news and my STB switched from 9-1 to 34-1. This is the only channel that does it. I tried entering other channels like 38 for channel 13 and 39 for channel 7 and it went to the right channels. OTOH, I now have to enter 34 for channel 9. I am using a Samsung T-451. My USDTV one just says "No program information available".

We are working on just that.

It is also not tunable at all on the newer DirecTV boxes since it is not in the guide. You cannot scan OTA with the HR20, it has to be in the DirecTV guide data.

What are you pulling in with the 4228?
With my nearly 1800 ft. elevation, an attic 4228 through a CM 3044 dist. amp and an LG sat. receiver (Sony HD200) pulls in rock-solid 24/7, except as noted (and on a matter of principle, subs. not mentioned):

DC
4.1 (48)
5.1 (36)
7 and 7.1 (39)
9 and 9.1 (34)
20 and 20.1 (35) - 20 is a little snowy and 20.1 sometimes drops out
26.1 (27) - not consistent
50 - snowy

Richmond
6.1 (25) - occasional dropouts
8 and 8.1 (22)
12.1 (54) - not consistent
35 and 35.1 (26) - 35 snowy
41.1 (46)
57.1 (44)
65.1 (47) - not consistent

Local
3.1 (49)
11.1 (11)
23.1 (42)
29.1 (32)
51

Very nice. You have elevation on your side, however, being in the Shenandoahs. I have the reverse, being near Sea Level, so close to Baltimore, and trying to hit a tower in Central, PA.

Can Somebody answer this?

If I were going to get another antenna, should I go with a bigger bowtie, like the 4228, or a Yagi like the 43XG?

With the 4221 pointed North at 13 degrees, and the Winegard Amp (at 28 db for UHF) I get only WBAL-DT but several Analog stations including WPMT.
With WBFF not showing up, I should be okay moving the 4221 outside, huh?
FYI, I bought a Radio Shack antenna today, a Yagi type with a 40 inch boom and 2 wings with 4 elements each. Their website had rave reviews for reception outside 75 miles. I hooked it up in my attic and things actually got worse!

So, it seems I've probably maxed out my options in the attic.

I may try the roof soon with the 4221, because it seems to do the best job.
Sounds like the Radio Shack yagi you tried was the U-75R yagi. I tried one myself and it was extremely touchy for just the right aim. I couldn't even get stations more than 10 degrees apart with it. The CM 4221 is a much more robust UHF antenna.

What stations do you get with the CM 4221 aimed north without the pre-amp? Try aiming the antenna a few degrees to the east and west to see what comes in on the backside. My advice is, if you are going to put the antenna up on the roof, to first try it without the pre-amp. You have a powerful pre-amp which is normally not used that close to the broadcast towers, even if you are not trying to get them. You might have been better off getting a 10 to 15 dB gain range pre-amp. I suspect you will need to get a larger antenna such as the CM 4228 or AntennasDirect 43-XG or 91-XG, but figure out what you can get with the CM 4221 so you can get a handle on reception at your location.

Sounds like the Radio Shack yagi you tried was the U-75R yagi. I tried one myself and it was extremely touchy for just the right aim. I couldn't even get stations more than 10 degrees apart with it. The CM 4221 is a much more robust UHF antenna.

What stations do you get with the CM 4221 aimed north without the pre-amp? Try aiming the antenna a few degrees to the east and west to see what comes in on the backside. My advice is, if you are going to put the antenna up on the roof, to first try it without the pre-amp. You have a powerful pre-amp which is normally not used that close to the broadcast towers, even if you are not trying to get them. You might have been better off getting a 10 to 15 dB gain range pre-amp. I suspect you will need to get a larger antenna such as the CM 4228 or AntennasDirect 43-XG or 91-XG, but figure out what you can get with the CM 4221 so you can get a handle on reception at your location.


When I move west, I get almost the exact same results, until the Bowties are 180 degrees different. When I move East, I will pick up WBAL-DT very close to 13 degrees (where WPMT Analog is) and if I move a little further, I get WMAR-DT. This is all in the attic, however.

One more question. If I were going to buy a new antenna to continue to try the attic, for this situation, which is better, the CM 4228, or the 43-XG

Something went wrong with channel 9 PSIP data this morning. I was watching the 12:00 news and my STB switched from 9-1 to 34-1. This is the only channel that does it. I tried entering other channels like 38 for channel 13 and 39 for channel 7 and it went to the right channels. OTOH, I now have to enter 34 for channel 9. I am using a Samsung T-451. My USDTV one just says "No program information available".

You may have to go into the saved channels, delete the channel 9 listing(s), and you might as well delete the channel 34 listing(s) while you are in there (I don't remember if you have to, but can't hurt...) and the next time you type in 34-1, channel 9-1 should come in.

I've had the same problem in the last couple of years with other stations (including my own, btw).

Mark

When I move west ... When I move East
No, no, no. In an attic, it is not enough to simply rotate the antenna. You must also move it left/right, forward/backward, and up/down to try and find a sweet spot.

What receiver are you using? Does it have a good signal meter?

No, no, no. In an attic, it is not enough to simply rotate the antenna. You must also move it left/right, forward/backward, and up/down to try and find a sweet spot.

What receiver are you using? Does it have a good signal meter?

I'm using 2. One Directv HR20, and 1 Samsung SIR-TS160.

Only the HR20 has a signal meter. I check the Samsung by constantly scanning.

As noted in the first post, A&E HD, National Geographic HD, and WDCA HD (719 -> 721) all showed up on Cox-Fairfax today. (Well, A&E and NatGeo were in clear QAM as early as Saturday per my HDHomeRun; no longer clear today). It looks like Cox added WUSA's subchannel (Doppler 9000, still in clear QAM on 805) as an added bonus. For whatever reason, WDCA is not in the clear.

Anyone have any info on the two "new" local access channels (820 and 821, I believe)? The Fairfax City and Fall Church City channels are now in the clear as well. Herndon's had been up but was gone for me today (in Annandale). Cox had also left two or three Music Choice channeles in the clear, but they're gone too.

-SUO

I am moving into downtown Baltimore in a week and I am looking at HDTV service. I do not have an HDTV yet but I plan on getting one before football season starts.

My main question is which provider has the best HD quality in Baltimore City: Comcast, DirectTV, or Dish Network? I am more concerned with quality over quantity because I don't watch that much TV, but I would like to do it right the first time. (I am moving right when my current place is getting FIOS.)

I am also a Redskins fan, and I would like to receive the OTA DC HD channels. What is the best antenna? People seem to like the CM 4228. I will have a roof top deck so I can easily mount it outside.

Thanks.

My main question is which provider has the best HD quality in Baltimore City: Comcast, DirectTV, or Dish Network? I am more concerned with quality over quantity because I don't watch that much TV, but I would like to do it right the first time. (I am moving right when my current place is getting FIOS.)

I am also a Redskins fan, and I would like to receive the OTA DC HD channels. What is the best antenna? People seem to like the CM 4228. I will have a roof top deck so I can easily mount it outside.
For overall HD picture quality, the current winner should be Comcast. DirecTV may match Comcast if they get their new HD satellite up and running in September for the new national HD channels on the satellite.

For OTA, the CM 4228 is a large long range highly directional antenna, usually for 40, 50 or more miles range. The CM 4221 4 Bay is more suitable for the Baltimore-Washington axis, but is not going work as well for upper VHF reception.

Sounds like the Radio Shack yagi you tried was the U-75R yagi. I tried one myself and it was extremely touchy for just the right aim. I couldn't even get stations more than 10 degrees apart with it. The CM 4221 is a much more robust UHF antenna.

What stations do you get with the CM 4221 aimed north without the pre-amp? Try aiming the antenna a few degrees to the east and west to see what comes in on the backside. My advice is, if you are going to put the antenna up on the roof, to first try it without the pre-amp. You have a powerful pre-amp which is normally not used that close to the broadcast towers, even if you are not trying to get them. You might have been better off getting a 10 to 15 dB gain range pre-amp. I suspect you will need to get a larger antenna such as the CM 4228 or AntennasDirect 43-XG or 91-XG, but figure out what you can get with the CM 4221 so you can get a handle on reception at your location.

Well, I got the CM 4221 up on the roof, by means of a 12 foot mast on top of my garage roof.

Here's where it gets weird. The signal got worse, much worse! I completely lost WPMT Analog. I did pick up 3 Baltimore Stations, with the antenna pointed directly AWAY from the towers on TV Hill. This was with the pre-amp off. With it on, I could only hold on to WBAL-DT. At 5 miles away from the Towers, I know they overload my receivers. When I was only interested in Baltimore stations, I would use an attenuator.

So, it seems I have interference from 1 or more Baltimore Stations.

That being the case, an antenna with a better front to back ratio should help right? I was thinking the Antennas Direct 43-XG.

Thoughts?

Here's where it gets weird. The signal got worse, much worse! I completely lost WPMT Analog. I did pick up 3 Baltimore Stations, with the antenna pointed directly AWAY from the towers on TV Hill. This was with the pre-amp off. With it on, I could only hold on to WBAL-DT. At 5 miles away from the Towers, I know they overload my receivers. When I was only interested in Baltimore stations, I would use an attenuator.
Did you remove the pre-amp from the signal path? You can't turn the pre-amp off and expect to get a signal. Turning the pre-amp off results in an open circuit. At five miles, if you do not use a pre-amp or distribution amp, you should not overload on any station. I think your use of the pre-amp is messing up you figuring out your best antenna setup.

That being the case, an antenna with a better front to back ratio should help right?
Not necessarily. What you need is not just a bigger antenna or a “better” antenna, but the right antenna, with the right pattern, irrespective of design or size. And you may need to trap and/or filter the TV Hill signals. Amplification is not likely to help unless/until the signal is properly filtered.

Basically, you need a more scientific and sophisticated approach. You need to first diagnose the interference, and then you need a strategy to deal with that. This is complicated to do, which is why I sent you a PM offering to help you by voice. Did you get that?


If the pre-amp overloads the Baltimore digital stations, it should only affect the channels they are on and possibly the adjacent channels.
Not true. An overloaded/clipped signal can cause beats such that weaker signals reflect through the overloaded channel and produce images on the other side. E.g., if you overload on 45, then 43 can interfere with 47, 41 can interfere with 49, 39 can interfere with 51, etc. This can happen in the pre-amp or in the RF stage of the receiver itself.

With wideband amplification, EVERY possible such combination of signals has to be considered as a potential source of interference, and you can even get interference from out-of-band mobile signals that randomly come and go. This is why the diagnosis gets complicated. To get a weak distant signal in an urban area, you generally use only a high-input low-gain preamp, if you use a preamp at all, followed by a bandpass filter, followed by high-gain distribution, and possibly adjacent channel traps.

As for WPMT-DT, are they at the full licensed power of 933 kW? See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WPMT. If they are still at the STA (Special Temporary Authority) power of 10 kW, then you are not likely to get the digital station. Can anyone here confirm the station is at their full licensed digital power?
The Central PA thread says it is. (I checked that and the FCC site last week.)

But really, the only way to be sure the digital signal is there is either to see it register on a meter, or to see the telltale pattern of snow on an analog TV. (I can usually do the latter, but it’s difficult to describe the process.)

But this brings up a point: Paul, when you look at channel 47 on an analog TV, what do you see? To have a hope of getting the digital signal, you should see pure snow, or white noise. If you see any trace of sync pulse or picture, that’s interference and you have to get rid of it.

... An overloaded/clipped signal can cause beats such that weaker signals reflect through the overloaded channel and produce images on the other side. E.g., if you overload on 45, then 43 can interfere with 47, 41 can interfere with 49, 39 can interfere with 51, etc. This can happen in the pre-amp or in the RF stage of the receiver itself.

With wideband amplification, EVERY possible such combination of signals has to be considered as a potential source of interference, and you can even get interference from out-of-band mobile signals that randomly come and go. This is why the diagnosis gets complicated. To get a weak distant signal in an urban area, you generally use only a high-input low-gain preamp, if you use a preamp at all, followed by a bandpass filter, followed by high-gain distribution, and possibly adjacent channel traps.

The arbitrary "overload" output level figures that preamp manufactures furnish to allow us to estimate when 5% sync compression occurs are useless in determining the point at which the various composite intermodulation byproducts render the weaker signals unprocessable. Furthermore, some of the manufacturer's overload ratings are bad jokes.

A couple of months ago, I was developing and balancing a multi-antenna, multi-market headend in College Park, Maryland. The location is about 10 miles from the Washington, DC tower cluster and about 30 miles from the Baltimore transmitters, but this area is a reception nightmare for me because, A) it is in a swale, and I would need an 80 foot mast to have line-of-sight to the Baltimore transmitters, and B) while my antennas are only slightly below the sight line to the Washington transmitters, the signals that bounce off Byrd Stadium are almost as strong as the intended signals.

I have a CM 4228 on a 30 foot telescoping mast pointed at Baltimore. The signal level of channel 59 measured at the end of a 60 foot downlead is about - 28 dBmV. Now, with digital signals, I can live with a signal that weak because it is still nearly 30 dB above the thermal noise floor. But that antenna also receives unintended signals from channels 20, 26, 32 and channel 50 that complicate matters for me. Roughly speaking, they all measure around 20 to 23 dBmV at the end of that downlead.

If I install a Winegard AP4727, which is a modern, albeit oddball, cousin of the AP 4700 and AP 4800 that has 23 dB of gain, I wind up with a couple of 46 dBmV analog carriers and a couple of maybe 43 dBmV carriers while lifting my channel 59 up to a manageable -5 dBmV and with an S/N ratio of about 25 to 26 dB, but my Accurian receiver cannot process that channel 59 signal. Even if I put a 30 dB bandpass filter on the preamp output, thereby eliminating the possibility of the primitive Accurian tuner being overloaded by the stronger channels, it still won't process it.

I don't have the Winegard maximum output table handy as I compose this, but they make the absolutely ridiculous claim that their AP series preamps can develop about ten dB more than comparable Channel Master preamps before they overload, but they can't. If I use a Channel Master OSD 0064, which also has 23 dB of gain, I develop the same output signal levels, but I wind up with a usable quality channel 59 DTV signal.

The visual "tell" is that analog channel 24, which is about 20 to 25 dB weaker than 20, 26, 32 and 50, is visibly beat to hell coming out of the Winegard preamp, whereas the interference on it is much, much less severe coming out of the Channel Master. Yet even then, the Channel Master preamp is rated for 51 dBmV output with a four, equal strength channel load, so it, too, is safely within its arbitrary operating parameters in this application, but it is still visibly damaging the weaker analog channel 24.

Because I am developing commercial headends, I can bring lots of components and test gear to job sites and try lots of combinations to eventually discover an optimal combination of parts and settings that allows me to develop adequate quality signals from weak and distant transmitters, but no do-it-yourselfer will ever be able to do that. At this site, for example, my unintended Washington, DC channel 39 signal coming off my Baltimore antenna is about 18 to 20 dB stronger than my intended channels 38 and 40 signals. Fortunately, pure, unadulterated 8VSB signals can withstand the presence of adjacent 8VSB signals that are about 26 to 28 dB stronger.

But as soon as I amplify even that three channel wide swath, all bets are off. I have read that 3rd Order Intermodulation Distortion developed in an amplifier is about 12 dB weaker on adjacent channels than it is on the subject channel itself. But if the adjacent channel is 20 dB weaker to begin with, then the resultant 3rd Order IMD will be 8 dB closer to the level of the weaker adjacent channel than to that of the subject channel that is the source of that intermodulation byproduct, so if I amplify my Baltimore antennas output even a little, the strong, Washington, DC channel 39 beats up the weaker Baltimore channels 38 and 40 to a condition of unprocessability before it beats up itself.

Fortunately for me, I can heterodyne convert the channel 38 to 4 and 40 to 6, and, at those lower frequencies, I can filter off most of the energy of the undesired channel 39, which has been inadvertently downconverted to 72-78 Mhz and 76-82 Mhz, respectively, and can then amplify it with relative impunity, but no single family residential customer could possibly justify spending that kind of money.

For those of you who are frustrated in your attempts to bring in a distant "gotta-have-it" local station, generally for sports, your best bet will be to pick a high gain directional antenna dedicated to receiving just that one channel whose pattern also best nulls out the strong, undesired signals, and to reduce the undesired input signal strength into the preamp either with a bandpass filter, (possibly a Winegard Jointenna, or you could have someone like Tin Lee make up a better one) if there are several undesired strong signals present, or with a notch trap, if there are only one or two undesired, strong signals. "Tru-Spec" - if there is such a company - used to make cheap tunable bandpass filters labeled BPF-UHF, but that product was discontinued about a decade ago.

The HDTV Primer page Comparing some commercially available antennas (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) has polar plots that can help you select an antenna that most effectively rejects undesired signals

With wideband amplification, EVERY possible such combination of signals has to be considered as a potential source of interference, and you can even get interference from out-of-band mobile signals that randomly come and go. This is why the diagnosis gets complicated. To get a weak distant signal in an urban area, you generally use only a high-input low-gain preamp, if you use a preamp at all, followed by a bandpass filter, followed by high-gain distribution, and possibly adjacent channel traps.


But this brings up a point: Paul, when you look at channel 47 on an analog TV, what do you see? To have a hope of getting the digital signal, you should see pure snow, or white noise. If you see any trace of sync pulse or picture, that’s interference and you have to get rid of it.

Thanks for the help in the forum.

Can you give me a model number of a "high-input low-gain preamp" example?

As for 47, I will have to check at home tonight.

Spent some time last night watching the new AEHD and NGHD on Cox. They look fantastic. I've been pretty impressed so far with HD feed from Cox vs. Comcast.

Thanks for the help in the forum.

Can you give me a model number of a "high-input low-gain preamp" example?

As for 47, I will have to check at home tonight.

The Winegard HDP 269, with its 12 dB claimed "average gain" is a favorite among AVSForum contributors, perhaps because no other recognizable manufacturer makes a low hain, "high-input" preamp at an affordable price. It can be had on the internet for $50 to $55. I think the MSRP is about $69.95.

I haven't used one, but be forewarned that this amplifier was "engineered" to be mated with Winegard's Square Shooter, which has reception elements inside it that look like the weapon that Lieutenant Worf uses for his martial arts practice and, last time I checked, Winegard still hadn't furnished multichannel sample plots of its performance at different UHF frequencies, so as crazy as this might seem, for all we know, the HDP 269's gain across the UHF band might even have been engineered to roughly flatten out the Square Shooter's uneven spectrum. I doubt it, but I don't trust Winegard specs and claims at all. The actual gain of Winegard's AP4800 actually varies from abot 26dB to about 38dB. I recently measured about 36dB of gain at channel 22, so that surely accounts for a lot of the disappointments that Winegard customers experience when they use their amps to try to salvage weak signals.

I recently had very good luck using an Electroline 15dB cable TV amp as a preamp. You can get a good quality, cable TV one-way 10dB preamp on eBay for under $10. Just don't buy the ones that are "bullet" amplifiers.

Can you live with a Channel Master channel 47 Jointenna (price: $25 to $40) on the downlead before it goes into the preamp?

This is not specifically relevant to HD, but has anyone with Comcast (and the digital sports tier) been getting audio but no video for GolTV? This is the only channel in my lineup with such a problem.

The Winegard HDP 269, with its 12 dB claimed "average gain" is a favorite among AVSForum contributors, perhaps because no other recognizable manufacturer makes a low hain, "high-input" preamp at an affordable price. It can be had on the internet for $50 to $55. I think the MSRP is about $69.95.

I haven't used one, but be forewarned that this amplifier was "engineered" to be mated with Winegard's Square Shooter, which has reception elements inside it that look like the weapon that Lieutenant Worf uses for his martial arts practice and, last time I checked, Winegard still hadn't furnished multichannel sample plots of its performance at different UHF frequencies, so as crazy as this might seem, for all we know, the HDP 269's gain across the UHF band might even have been engineered to roughly flatten out the Square Shooter's uneven spectrum. I doubt it, but I don't trust Winegard specs and claims at all. The actual gain of Winegard's AP4800 actually varies from abot 26dB to about 38dB. I recently measured about 36dB of gain at channel 22, so that surely accounts for a lot of the disappointments that Winegard customers experience when they use their amps to try to salvage weak signals.

I recently had very good luck using an Electroline 15dB cable TV amp as a preamp. You can get a good quality, cable TV one-way 10dB preamp on eBay for under $10. Just don't buy the ones that are "bullet" amplifiers.

Can you live with a Channel Master channel 47 Jointenna (price: $25 to $40) on the downlead before it goes into the preamp?

One last question, for now... Should I try the HDP 269 and the Jointenna with My CM 4221 first? I was thinking of picking up a more directional antenna also.

What has Verizon Fios put in your neighborhood? Have they run the orange tubes and put in the junction boxes in the ground? Or are the markings for the local runs to the houss?

Verizon is digging up all the median strips in front of my house. I guess they are running fiber along the street. I see Verizon trucks with giant rolls of cable driving around all day also.

How close to available is service?

Did anyone else watch or record the PBS Great Performances program last week with Sting, performing Elizabethan music?

I just played back my FIOS DVR recording. There was missing dialogue, though the music was mostly fine. All of my speakers emitted sound, but it was only the musical portion of the soundtrack.

I wonder if this was a PBS (national) problem or a Maryland Public TV problem?

I recorded the initial broadcast, so this may have been fixed for the subsequent repeat broadcasts.

Feedback anyone?

Verizon is digging up all the median strips in front of my house. I guess they are running fiber along the street. I see Verizon trucks with giant rolls of cable driving around all day also.

How close to available is service?
Could be several months, could be a year, could be longer. There is a lot of infrastructure from running fiber to your central office, installing equipment there, all the way to junction boxes for a group of houses. The orange tubes are empty, BTW. They feed the fiber optics line through them later.

Did you see my post on taking your pre-amp out of the signal path? You can't turn the pre-amp off and expect to get anything from the antenna. Put the CM 4221 up on the roof, but without the pre-amp in the signal path. Take it from there.

For whatever reason, WDCA is not in the clear.

Anyone have any info on the two "new" local access channels (820 and 821, I believe)? The Fairfax City and Fall Church City channels are now in the clear as well. Herndon's had been up but was gone for me today (in Annandale). Cox had also left two or three Music Choice channels in the clear, but they're gone too.

-SUO

Thats great that Cox added the Doppler 9000, but I can't see it. Maybe because I have CableCARD. The two local access channels are not really new, they were paired with channels 36 and 13 and they were split off to become just local access/advertisment channels. As for WDCA not in the clear, I would just wait a couple days; it seems that Cox turned on clear QAM functions only a week or two at least in our area. Music Choice channels should be encrypted. Only the local broadcast channels should be in the clear, like WRC on 4-1 and WJLA on 7-1.

Did you see my post on taking your pre-amp out of the signal path? You can't turn the pre-amp off and expect to get anything from the antenna. Put the CM 4221 up on the roof, but without the pre-amp in the signal path. Take it from there.

Got it, thanks. I'll give it a try.

... Music Choice channels should be encrypted ...

Maybe a matter of semantics, but I don't think Cox is legally required to encrypt anything. ;) They're just required to keep OTA-available channels in the clear.

I also noticed that the Doppler9000 feed on Sunday morning was actually showing cartoons. Since the CBS eye logo was on the image, I can only imagine that Cox was passing one whatever WUSA was feeding.

Anyway, thanks for the ACK in the first post, CycloneGT. But I have to tell ya, your channel "matrix" makes it look like 7.2 is available on Cox. Unless I'm blind, I don't think we have that. Probably need to break out WETA's subchannels, unless it is commonly known that everyone gets all of them via non-OTA means.

-SUO

Well, I guess Cox just wants to brainwash us customers. :D
Is WUSA Doppler 9000 on clear QAM 805? I always like to check out what little Cox has to offer.

Thanks,
--mapper

Thats great that Cox added the Doppler 9000, but I can't see it. Maybe because I have CableCARD.

There are some tests going on with the DTV stream that needed some bandwidth so the 9.2 radar channel has been de-activated for a couple of days!! back soon.

Cheers

This is not specifically relevant to HD, but has anyone with Comcast (and the digital sports tier) been getting audio but no video for GolTV? This is the only channel in my lineup with such a problem.


Mine is fine, what County or City are you in ?

GoIrish

There are some tests going on with the DTV stream that needed some bandwidth so the 9.2 radar channel has been de-activated for a couple of days!! back soon.

CheersHmmm. Good to know. I wonder who you might be?

I also noticed that the Doppler9000 feed on Sunday morning was actually showing cartoons. Since the CBS eye logo was on the image, I can only imagine that Cox was passing one whatever WUSA was feeding. There is a FCC mandate for E/I (Education and Info???) programming on all broadcast channels. So even the subchannels need to carry some E/I for a hour or two a week. 9.2 does there's on Sunday Mornings.

I'll look into upgrading the Grid. If I put 7.2 under COX, it would have been that someone posted that it was on their. A long time ago, 7.2 was ABC News now. Perhaps it was removed when that channel went defunct.

Ok, so currently the doppler is down, so it makes sense that its not there currently.
To CycloneGT- If you are upgrading the grid, I suppose you could add the breakout of the digital MHz channels for Cox. MHz channels 1-8 are available through Cox's Digital International Tier.
Other news: PSIP data on WRC-DT has been changed to WRCHD, and PSIP data on Weather Plus has been named WRCWP.

Thanks,
--mapper

Could be several months, could be a year, could be longer. There is a lot of infrastructure from running fiber to your central office, installing equipment there, all the way to junction boxes for a group of houses. The orange tubes are empty, BTW. They feed the fiber optics line through them later.

Did you see my post on taking your pre-amp out of the signal path? You can't turn the pre-amp off and expect to get anything from the antenna. Put the CM 4221 up on the roof, but without the pre-amp in the signal path. Take it from there.


They ran the fiber a few weeks ago in my area and terminated it 2 weeks ago. This past weekend I got a notice from FIOS in the mail with a number to call to preorder FIOS and get in the beginning of the installation queue. I called up Monday and signed up for FIOS internet. I signed up for the 15/2 service for $49.99 for 12 months. They weren't signing up for TV yet but they said installations would start in late July or August. And hopefully by then they will be offering the TV service. I'd like to get my Series 3 TiVos set up with the cable cards before the fall TV season. It took a little time to get things straightened out with Comcast for all six cable cards.

Hello again, Mike… I was wondering how long it would take you to chime in… :)

A couple of months ago, I was developing and balancing a multi-antenna, multi-market headend in College Park, Maryland.
I’m curious about this. Is it a digital headend for feeding digital receivers, or an analog headend using DTV receivers as signal sources?

The visual "tell" is that analog channel 24, which is about 20 to 25 dB weaker than 20, 26, 32 and 50, is visibly beat to hell coming out of the Winegard preamp, whereas the interference on it is much, much less severe coming out of the Channel Master. Yet even then, the Channel Master preamp is rated for 51 dBmV output with a four, equal strength channel load, so it, too, is safely within its arbitrary operating parameters in this application, but it is still visibly damaging the weaker analog channel 24.
Visibly on a TV or a spectrum analyzer? If on TV, how do you determine whether the damage is occurring in the preamp or the TV receiver itself?

Fortunately for me, I can heterodyne convert the channel 38 to 4 and 40 to 6, and, at those lower frequencies, I can filter off most of the energy of the undesired channel 39, which has been inadvertently downconverted to 72-78 Mhz and 76-82 Mhz, respectively, and can then amplify it with relative impunity, but no single family residential customer could possibly justify spending that kind of money.
There used to be consumer-grade cable and UHF converters that could do this. Years ago, I had a GI LCC-91 that converted UHF to channel 3 or 4, but unfortunately it broke long before the first DTV signals hit the air. I think it’s still in a box somewhere in the attic, but I’ve never found it worth the time or trouble to fix.

I did once try converting digital signals from UHF 15 and 27 to 3 with a fine-tunable cable converter just as a proof of concept, and that worked fine, but unfortunately, that converter only goes to cable channel 78, so it isn’t useful for any weak digital signals in northern Virginia, where I live.

(possibly a Winegard Jointenna, or you could have someone like Tin Lee make up a better one) if there are several undesired strong signals present, or with a notch trap, if there are only one or two undesired, strong signals. "Tru-Spec" - if there is such a company - used to make cheap tunable bandpass filters labeled BPF-UHF, but that product was discontinued about a decade ago.
Hmm… I thought Jointenna was a CM trademark. Pretty sure all of mine are CM, but they are very old, and I haven’t used them in years. Never liked the plastic cases. Probably work fine on an antenna mast, but way too much radiation/ingress for use on a board.

Tru-Spec is (was?) a brand name for Pico-Macom products. Their BPF-UHFs and MX-4Us have nice metal cases, and I’ve had pretty good luck with them on my mixing board.

But I’m still using a board that I built more than a decade ago to handle DC/Baltimore analog signals, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised that I could add most DC/Baltimore digitals with relatively minor adjustments and without too much damage to the analogs. The whole thing is now badly out-of-date, but at this point, I’m not about to tear it down and rebuild it until after the analog shutdown.

Who/what is Tin Lee?

the HDP 269's gain across the UHF band might even have been engineered to roughly flatten out the Square Shooter's uneven spectrum. I doubt it, but I don't trust Winegard specs and claims at all. The actual gain of Winegard's AP4800 actually varies from abot 26dB to about 38dB.
Well, see, this was my thought when I read your first post. The trouble with amp specs generally is that they try to reduce a characteristic that varies across the amp’s operating frequency band to just a single number. Obviously, there are different ways you could do that, so comparing one company’s specs to another’s is like comparing apples and oranges. You would hope that comparing numbers in the same company’s line would work a little better, at least in a relative sense, but in the end I’ve always regarded amps as a trial and error sort of thing. I’ve generally bought only from sources where I had return privileges, and if something worked and offered god value for the money, I kept it, and if not, I didn’t.

Just don't buy the ones that are "bullet" amplifiers.
But see, I’ve got about half a dozen of these attached directly to MX-4U outputs on my board, and they do fine for me there. I picked them up because they were cheap and they consume essentially zero real estate on the board. Of course, again, they are quite old, so maybe what’s being sold today is not quite the same. I do keep the cheapie power injectors out of the signal path, though, by feeding the power through HLSJs.


One last question, for now... Should I try the HDP 269 and the Jointenna with My CM 4221 first? I was thinking of picking up a more directional antenna also.
Actually, I think I would probably start with just the Jointenna, but then I would probably study the reception patterns for a while before even doing that. I would probably go back to the configuration that gave a crystal clear analog 43, and monitor that for a week or so before proceeding further, just to be sure the York signal is stable 24/7, rather than a temporary tropospheric bounce.

Some other points:

Mike’s advice about checking polar plots of directional antennas is dead on target -- that’s what I was getting at in my previous post -- but only if you’re committed to a roof installation. If you use a large directional antenna indoors, any metal or moisture in the building, standing waves and so on, will tend to negate all the engineering and design work that went into the antenna.

If you are on a wooded lot, or if you have a lot of leafy trees nearby, in the path to either York or TV Hill, keep in mind that your whole reception environment could change when the leaves fall off the trees, and what works today might not work then.

If your attic antenna is pulling the York signal through a slanted roof, keep in mind that the plane of water running down the roof whenever it rains could destroy your signal.

Finally, keep in mind that if your interference problem stems from local analog signals, things could improve markedly after the analog shutdown, so you might ask yourself how much work you really want to do now, considering it might only be necessary for 28 Sunday afternoons. (Or fewer, because some Eagles games will be at night, and some will air in Baltimore.)

Ok, so currently the doppler is down, so it makes sense that its not there currently.
To CycloneGT- If you are upgrading the grid, I suppose you could add the breakout of the digital MHz channels for Cox. MHz channels 1-8 are available through Cox's Digital International Tier.
Other news: PSIP data on WRC-DT has been changed to WRCHD, and PSIP data on Weather Plus has been named WRCWP.

Thanks,
--mapperWell, I updated the channel listing, I'll do the grid later.

Thats great that Cox added the Doppler 9000, but I can't see it. Maybe because I have CableCARD.
…
Is WUSA Doppler 9000 on clear QAM 805?
Never used CableCard. Does that map channels to the same numbers the cable boxes use?

I have one QAM tuner, but it gets everything only on the frequency standard channel numbers. So 4 and 7 are on 132-2 through 132-4, 9 is on 122-1, 5 is on 122-2, 9-2 was recently added on 122-13, 26 and 50 are on 108-3 through 108-8, A&EHD and NGHD are on 13-1 and 13-9 (but now scrambled), and 20 seems to be on 36-20 (but scrambled.)

Maybe a matter of semantics, but I don't think Cox is legally required to encrypt anything. ;) They're just required to keep OTA-available channels in the clear.
Except they are no longer doing that. The MHz channels added a few weeks ago are all available OTA, but Cox scrambled them within a few minutes of adding them and they haven’t been ITC since.

Cox seems to be rather careless about scrambling, though. I frequently see one or more channels ITC temporarily, and there are frequently VOD streams visible on subchannels 101 and up on various channels. (Athough no VOD that I’ve ever ordered via my Cox box has ever been ITC when I’ve checked.)

A few months ago, Cox left ALL of its PPV channels ITC for at least 12 hours. (Who knows how long they were there before I happened to discover them?) Now that movies are available via VOD, most of the remaining PPV seems to be porn. Never seen so many ITC porn channels in all my life... Cox Cable took on a whole new meaning.......

<edit>

Who/what is Tin Lee?

<edit>

Tin Lee is a manufacturer of some pretty nice RF filters. I use them on some of our equipment (non-broadcast) in the station. You can check them out at www.tinlee.com.

Mark

A couple of months ago, I was developing and balancing a multi-antenna, multi-market headend in College Park, Maryland.


I'm curious about this. Is it a digital headend for feeding digital receivers, or an analog headend using DTV receivers as signal sources?.

It is a hybrid headend that uses NTSC modulation of DirecTV receiver outputs, and heterodyne conversion of broadcast analog with mostly filtered and amplified broadcast 8VSB UHF signals. The only converted broadcast 8VSB signals are 38 and 40, which I had to do because of the relative stength of channel 39. All TVs with digital tuners that I have evaluated seamlessly integrate cable NTSC and broadcast frequency digital channels. I have never had to go into the menu and change channel plans to make them see channels in the two different plans.

While I have read of commercial "transcoders" that take entire, 30 Mhz-wide transponders of DBS QPSK programming and somehow reconstitute them into a 6 Mhz, 64 QAM channels, proprietary receivers would still be needed to decode that programming, and I never have encountered a situation in which using that technology would be feasible. Also, I know of no affordable hardware that takes a DirecTV output and modulates it as uncrypted 8VSB or QAM (LG will be releasing something pricy that changes the encryption, but the hotels that use TVs that can decrypt those signals will surely pay over a grand each), so I expect these hybrid distibution systems to become more common in the near future.

The visual "tell" is that analog channel 24, which is about 20 to 25 dB weaker than 20, 26, 32 and 50, is visibly beat to hell coming out of the Winegard preamp, whereas the interference on it is much, much less severe coming out of the Channel Master..

Visibly on a TV or a spectrum analyzer? If on TV, how do you determine whether the damage is occurring in the preamp or the TV receiver itself?

Visible on the TV screen. I can see another picture sliding across the screen. I know it is happening in the preamp because the symptom stays exactly the same even when I pad down the preamp output signal levels to the same level they were at before I amplified them. That symptom wasn't present before I preamplified.

Fortunately for me, I can heterodyne convert the channel 38 to 4 and 40 to 6, and, at those lower frequencies, I can filter off most of the energy of the undesired channel 39,.

There used to be consumer-grade cable and UHF converters that could do this. Years ago, I had a GI LCC-91 that converted UHF to channel 3 or 4, but unfortunately it broke long before the first DTV signals hit the air. I think it’s still in a box somewhere in the attic, but I’ve never found it worth the time or trouble to fix..

You can even find wideband UHF to VHF converters made by Blonder Tongue from I think the early 1960s on eBay for typically about $5 to $10. They might have tubes in them. The Pico/Holland/Blonder Tongue Z-series XUV converters sell for about $160 each but generate a ton of out-of-band noise.

Holland makes a SAW filtered processor that converts any broadcast channel to any other broadcast channel for around $500 to $600. A broadcast 8VSB channel must be converted to either a VHF or UHF channel to be useful, since almost all consumer DTV tuners will only demodulate and decode 8VSB signals when set to the broadcast channel plan. So in other words, If I were to retune any of my Pico or Holland UHF to midband converters, a TV tuner set for the standard, FCC cable channel plan would try to process them as QAM signals and fail.

I did once try converting digital signals from UHF 15 and 27 to 3 with a fine-tunable cable converter just as a proof of concept, and that worked fine, but unfortunately, that converter only goes to cable channel 78, so it isn't useful for any weak digital signals in northern Virginia, where I live..

I struck out using a premium Blonder Tongue converter that had an agile input but a dedicated output. I didn't have good enough equipment to determine why it failed. Since this product used double conversion and SAW filtering and integral aural carrier reduction, it is possible that the SAW filter either scraped off the +0.9Mhz pilot, or that the aural carrier reducer degraded the 8VSB haystack.

possibly a Winegard Jointenna....

I thought Jointenna was a CM trademark.
.
Oops...

the HDP 269's gain across the UHF band might even have been engineered to roughly flatten out the Square Shooter's uneven spectrum..

FWIW, about eight years ago, I studied the gain and loss plots of Spaun's PIN diode multiswitches and its cascadable amp, and since the PIN diode multiswitches had screwy loss contours, they had actually engineered in complementary, non-linear amplifier gains to roughly even them out.

The trouble with amp specs generally is that they try to reduce a characteristic that varies across the amp’s operating frequency band to just a single number..

To clarify my remark about the gain of the AP4800, the variation from 26 to 38 dB I was referring to was across the UHF band, rather than from unit to unit. Another AVSForum member made a similar observation previously. The gain across the AP4727 was much flatter, though I didn't use a noise generator. I just compared measured levels at about a dozen subject channels.

I recently compared output and input levels of some common, $20 to $40, 10 to 20 dB cable preamps and they were all flat across the spectrum to within about a dB.

Obviously, there are different ways you could do that, so comparing one company’s specs to another’s is like comparing apples and oranges.

Blonder Tongue publishes a whole table of specs for its BIDA series distribution amplifiers, but those are only important for systems in which complex cascades must be managed. I'd probably settle for having a single, reliable 3rd Order IMD figure for an amp that is flat across the band.

Just don't buy the ones that are "bullet" amplifiers.

...I've got about half a dozen of these attached directly to MX-4U outputs on my board, and they do fine for me there.

My advice was to avoid using them in broadband applications with strong signals present. I doubt that any bullet inline amp of any era could develop even 30dBmV without beating up the signal. That caveat having been said, I have actually used them in hotel PPV systems to boost the sub-band return signals a little

Who/what is Tin Lee?.

Tin Lee is a manufacturer of some pretty nice RF filters.

Actually, I was referring to the dog in the Kung-Fu movies.

This is not specifically relevant to HD, but has anyone with Comcast (and the digital sports tier) been getting audio but no video for GolTV? This is the only channel in my lineup with such a problem.It's interesting that you mention this, because I have the same problem with GolTV... on Fios. That's with my Tivo S3; with the Verizon box (a Motorola QIP2500-3), I do get a picture, but it's very odd when I first tune in -- it comes in blocks and takes a full second or so to fill in. After that, it's normal. For me, this is also the only channel like this in my lineup.

Never used CableCard. Does that map channels to the same numbers the cable boxes use?

I have one QAM tuner, but it gets everything only on the frequency standard channel numbers. So 4 and 7 are on 132-2 through 132-4, 9 is on 122-1, 5 is on 122-2, 9-2 was recently added on 122-13, 26 and 50 are on 108-3 through 108-8, A&EHD and NGHD are on 13-1 and 13-9 (but now scrambled), and 20 seems to be on 36-20 (but scrambled.)

Except they are no longer doing that. The MHz channels added a few weeks ago are all available OTA, but Cox scrambled them within a few minutes of adding them and they haven’t been ITC since.

Cox seems to be rather careless about scrambling, though. I frequently see one or more channels ITC temporarily, and there are frequently VOD streams visible on subchannels 101 and up on various channels. (Athough no VOD that I’ve ever ordered via my Cox box has ever been ITC when I’ve checked.)


Yes, CableCARD maps all the channels the same way a cable box would. When I talked with Cox a month ago, they said they don't "do" in the clear channels and the person I was talking to insisted I should leave the service if I wasn't happy....some customer service. Now on my second tuner in the TV which is QAM, it maps in the clear channels such as NBC, ABC, Fox, and CW. But not on 130.xx, but on their real channel numbers. NBC is 4-1, Fox is 5-1, ABC is 7-1, so on so forth. Cox is always changing channel mapping and the fact that the MHz channels are scrambled is no surprise. I think because legally nothing needs to be encrypted, everything is encrypted/not provided to ITC channel users. Maybe there needs to be a petition to get all OTA channels ITC from Cox, just my $0.02.

Comcast here maps the channels to the correct main channel but the sub number isn't right. Instead of 9.1 it might be 9.5 and 9.2 might be 9.6. i don't know why it does that? But the same thing has occured with three different TV tuners. I only have the cable connected to the TV and not the antenna. At least I don't watch Tv this way. I just have it connected to see what the TVs did with it. I use my Series 3 TiVos for my regular viewing. I couldn't imagine watching TV in real time.

Comcast here maps the channels to the correct main channel but the sub number isn't right. Instead of 9.1 it might be 9.5 and 9.2 might be 9.6. i don't know why it does that?
Maybe to accommodate tuners that have just one set of channels, no input selector, just all sources mixed together. That way you could still select OTA with the real numbers, and the Comcast version with the .5, etc.
I think we had a D* STB that was like that.. with multiple sources, at one time we had channel 2 OTA, channel 2 cable, and channel 2 satellite... all channel 2! Plus 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc. Took forever to get from channel 2 to 3!

But this brings up a point: Paul, when you look at channel 47 on an analog TV, what do you see? To have a hope of getting the digital signal, you should see pure snow, or white noise. If you see any trace of sync pulse or picture, that’s interference and you have to get rid of it.
I just tested my CM 4221 and an old combo antenna that the previous owner left in my attic. It being night, I was not able to test the roof. So, I checked only an analog signal and found only plain white noise on channel 47.

Could I still be getting interference from WBFF on the digital broadcast, however?

You could go to TitanTV.cam and customize for your service and area. It will present a full list of what stations should be available. However, you'll need to verify your eligibility for access to specific stations based on your subscription package.

YMMVAre you saying TitanTV will give QAM mappings for channels that are in the clear for my cable system? I tried it out and it looks like I can remap channel #s but I still have to figure out what they are on my own. The tuner in my Olevia is absolutely slow as sin and the remote's garbage on top of that (and no cablecard slot) so I'm not too excited to manually flip through every possible channel to find what the scan failed to pick up.

I did find the channels for on-demand voyeurism, though (84.1+), but my neighbors have terribly boring tastes.

Are you saying TitanTV will give QAM mappings for channels that are in the clear for my cable system? I tried it out and it looks like I can remap channel #s but I still have to figure out what they are on my own. The tuner in my Olevia is absolutely slow as sin and the remote's garbage on top of that (and no cablecard slot) so I'm not too excited to manually flip through every possible channel to find what the scan failed to pick up.

I did find the channels for on-demand voyeurism, though (84.1+), but my neighbors have terribly boring tastes.
TitanTV will not give you the QAM channel numbers for your Comcast cable.
I agree some TV tuners are very slow, and I use an OnAir GT USB tuner(~$160) in my computer to do my searching. It is quite fast and very sensitive. I am attaching a text file showing the output of a scan done in January on my Comcast basic cable.
Encrypted channels are noted with a(C). When the scan is completed, all of the encrypted channels are automatically removed from the list. The desired channels can then be loaded manually into your TV. The program for this tuner provides for recording of HDTV programs, as well as timeshifting, and I find the tuner is an excellent tool.

Just a data point that, has promised, WDCA in HD has arrived today on Comcast DC, channel 215.

Just a data point that, has promised, WDCA in HD has arrived today on Comcast DC, channel 215.

actually it showed up yesterday. But it's here, not that it means anything since nothing is in HD on there, is there?

I see it on my TiVo, but no guide data my TiVos for 215 yet.

actually it showed up yesterday. But it's here, not that it means anything since nothing is in HD on there, is there?
WDCA-DT My 20? Sure, they have some true HD programming in prime time. The telenovels/soaps which they are burning off 1 night a week are shot in HD, but they are burning them off for a reason. They have been showing a fair number of movies in HD. I noticed they had a movie in HD tonight as I channel surfed pass the station. Checking the listings, they were showing "Bad Girls from Valley High" whatever that is, but I think the title tells you a fair amount about the movie. :D

9-2 is back on the air as of late Thurs./ early Fri.

Anyone else catch the strange feeds coming thru on WRC-DT during the Today show on Saturday? A combination of HD bars, a young woman trying (and stumbling) thru a network news read, again in HD, and at times, the actual broadcast, but in what appeared to be upconverted SD 4:3.

Anyone else catch the strange feeds coming thru on WRC-DT during the Today show on Saturday? A combination of HD bars, a young woman trying (and stumbling) thru a network news read, again in HD, and at times, the actual broadcast, but in what appeared to be upconverted SD 4:3.
Yeah, that was a bit weird - I assume that was the raw sat feed from the network.

I rescanned cable last nite and Cox seems to have removed all mapping. Got all the same clear QAM chs as before, but they are all at their RF chs. I just wish the scan wouldn't take so long (40+ min) - it's nice to catch a few "unintended" clear QAM chs.

WDCA-DT My 20? Sure, they have some true HD programming in prime time. The telenovels/soaps which they are burning off 1 night a week are shot in HD, but they are burning them off for a reason. They have been showing a fair number of movies in HD. I noticed they had a movie in HD tonight as I channel surfed pass the station. Checking the listings, they were showing "Bad Girls from Valley High" whatever that is, but I think the title tells you a fair amount about the movie. :D


Yup, my 20...At least the NATS look better than on the regular channel. Course that is not saying much.

Yeah, that was a bit weird - I assume that was the raw sat feed from the network.

I rescanned cable last nite and Cox seems to have removed all mapping. Got all the same clear QAM chs as before, but they are all at their RF chs. I just wish the scan wouldn't take so long (40+ min) - it's nice to catch a few "unintended" clear QAM chs.
They're still at RF channels for me. Are they going back anytime soon? :(

Yup, my 20...At least the NATS look better than on the regular channel. Course that is not saying much.Actually, it was the Pirates who looked better last night!

Actually, it was the Pirates who looked better last night!

That is a rare event. I guess more people should leave at the 7th Inning stretch to protest 15 losing seasons.

Yeah, that was a bit weird - I assume that was the raw sat feed from the network.

I rescanned cable last nite and Cox seems to have removed all mapping. Got all the same clear QAM chs as before, but they are all at their RF chs. I just wish the scan wouldn't take so long (40+ min) - it's nice to catch a few "unintended" clear QAM chs.

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this.

I have 3 HD TV's with QAM tuners and the HDHomeRun for my Media Center. 2 of the TV"s are less than a month old and I haven't used them much. They both tuned the QAM channels and mapped them to their regular channel number (Fox was WTTG-DT 5.X etc instead of 135.5 or something like that).

As of yesterday (or a few days ago) these remappings no longer showed up. A rescan picked up some digital stations, but I am having a hard time finding them and they don't map like they used to.

My other TV never remapped them, so it seems to be the same. I do most of my watching via Media Center with the HDHomeRun and that didn't change at all (thank goodness - it would be hard to fix).

I called Cox today to ask what had happened. What a joke. The first rep I spoke to went to research what "QAM" was but instead just routed me back into the phone queue. The next rep had never heard of it -- I tried to explain it was "an FCC requirement to carry OTA singles in the clear; that's what QAM is, it's an industry standard." She got her supervisor who was quite rude, and also didn't know what QAM was, but insisted they follow all SCC [sic; I think she meant FCC] requirements.

I'm no expert here by any stretch. How often does this happen with Cox?

they are under no obligation to tell you how their stations are mapped. You just gotta keep checking. Have you changed your cable runs at all? Maybe the signal levels have dropped some.

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this.

I have 3 HD TV's with QAM tuners and the HDHomeRun for my Media Center. 2 of the TV"s are less than a month old and I haven't used them much. They both tuned the QAM channels and mapped them to their regular channel number (Fox was WTTG-DT 5.X etc instead of 135.5 or something like that).

As of yesterday (or a few days ago) these remappings no longer showed up. A rescan picked up some digital stations, but I am having a hard time finding them and they don't map like they used to.

My other TV never remapped them, so it seems to be the same. I do most of my watching via Media Center with the HDHomeRun and that didn't change at all (thank goodness - it would be hard to fix).

I called Cox today to ask what had happened. What a joke. The first rep I spoke to went to research what "QAM" was but instead just routed me back into the phone queue. The next rep had never heard of it -- I tried to explain it was "an FCC requirement to carry OTA singles in the clear; that's what QAM is, it's an industry standard." She got her supervisor who was quite rude, and also didn't know what QAM was, but insisted they follow all SCC [sic; I think she meant FCC] requirements.

I'm no expert here by any stretch. How often does this happen with Cox?

I called Cox today to ask what had happened. What a joke. The first rep I spoke to went to research what "QAM" was but instead just routed me back into the phone queue. The next rep had never heard of it -- I tried to explain it was "an FCC requirement to carry OTA singles in the clear; that's what QAM is, it's an industry standard." She got her supervisor who was quite rude, and also didn't know what QAM was, but insisted they follow all SCC [sic; I think she meant FCC] requirements.

I'm no expert here by any stretch. How often does this happen with Cox?

It happens a lot with Cox, I have the same problem. Cox does not HAVE to put anything in the clear as of now. Their reps said the same things and "we don't support QAM" is going to be at Cox for a while until customers begin complaining.
The channel remapping will happen a lot now, since they are starting to add new HD channels. I wish Cox would just put the channels in the clear and leave it alone.

Ok, it's July, where are our Wheel and Jeopardy in HD on WJLADT (I wanted to be the first one to ask Robert this annoying question)?

One for OTA, and the other for cable. This thread is useless for OTA only people since it's filled with mostly comments on cable company stuff.

Anyway, using rabbit ears, from South Baltimore I get all the Baltimore stations except for 24, which I think nobody get OTA. When I put up a good antenna, like a DB2, and aim it the right way I can pick to the Annapolis PBS station as well. This is inside the first floor of a city rowhouse. From what I have read elsewhere, it should be possible to get DC stations as well if I put up a better antenna on my roof and aim it towards DC, but looking through this thread, I wouldn't know if anyone here has done it. The only people that seem to get both Baltimore and Washington seem to live in Laurel or Columbia.

I was told on Saturday by a Comcast tech in the Arlington/Alexandria area that Comcast would be getting new HD boxes starting Sunday to be in compliance with the new FCC mandate.

Does anyone know what model/brand they are now using?

One for OTA, and the other for cable. This thread is useless for OTA only people since it's filled with mostly comments on cable company stuff.

Anyway, using rabbit ears, from South Baltimore I get all the Baltimore stations except for 24, which I think nobody get OTA. When I put up a good antenna, like a DB2, and aim it the right way I can pick to the Annapolis PBS station as well. This is inside the first floor of a city rowhouse. From what I have read elsewhere, it should be possible to get DC stations as well if I put up a better antenna on my roof and aim it towards DC, but looking through this thread, I wouldn't know if anyone here has done it. The only people that seem to get both Baltimore and Washington seem to live in Laurel or Columbia.

Not true!!!! I live in Forestville and I get Baltimore and DC channels. Only exceptions are 53(30), 56(57), and 66(43) which are in a different direction. BTW, when should we expect 24 to be at full power.

Seems to me there are more OTA posts than cable. But many of us have both. I don't need yet another thread to follow.

This might be a weird request but I'm going to be on WJZ's morning news show tomorrow sometime between 6 and 7am (closer to 6 I think) and I was wondering if anyone has the ability to record the segment(s) onto their computer for me. I see some options on their website to record their programs with PC-TV software, so if someone can use that that would be cool. (The reason I'm going to be on is that I have an art show in Canton, Baltimore, that they are doing a segment on. I'd like to be able to post it to YouTube or something so I can add it to the press section on my website.)

Anyone able to do this? My email is gil AT buskerdog.com

Thanks!

I would, but I am in Dallas until Tue night.

About the thread. This comes up once a year and it gets shot down. Most are satisfied with the single thread. Whenever a 2nd thread is created, they always seem to fade away in short order.

they are under no obligation to tell you how their stations are mapped. You just gotta keep checking. Have you changed your cable runs at all? Maybe the signal levels have dropped some.

No change in cable runs. Just the re-mapping messed me up. These TV's are new and I've only had HD since March on my first HD TV so I'm a bit new to this. I can understand that they'd need to change things around, but why drop the portion of the signal that shows the station name/what channel it maps to etc?

It happens a lot with Cox, I have the same problem. Cox does not HAVE to put anything in the clear as of now. Their reps said the same things and "we don't support QAM" is going to be at Cox for a while until customers begin complaining.
The channel remapping will happen a lot now, since they are starting to add new HD channels. I wish Cox would just put the channels in the clear and leave it alone.

I thought cable companies had to carry the signal of "free to broadcast" stations (Fox, CBS, PBS, NBC, ABC etc) in unencrypted digital - i.e. clear QAM. I thought this was an FCC requirement.

But I fully agree -- I'd love regular cable channels to also come in clear QAM!

I would, but I am in Dallas until Tue night.


Appreciate that. If anyone else can do it it would be greatly appreciated. The website says that it works with TitanTV: http://wjz.com/programming Tues 7/03 from 6-7am.

I thought cable companies had to carry the signal of "free to broadcast" stations (Fox, CBS, PBS, NBC, ABC etc) in unencrypted digital - i.e. clear QAM. I thought this was an FCC requirement.
I may be wrong, but I think the FCC requirement applies only to the analog feed of local "broadcast" channels, leaving the cablecos free to encrypt the digital/HD feeds (and thus charge extra for them).

This might be a weird request but I'm going to be on WJZ's morning news show tomorrow sometime between 6 and 7am (closer to 6 I think) and I was wondering if anyone has the ability to record the segment(s) onto their computer for me. I see some options on their website to record their programs with PC-TV software, so if someone can use that that would be cool. (The reason I'm going to be on is that I have an art show in Canton, Baltimore, that they are doing a segment on. I'd like to be able to post it to YouTube or something so I can add it to the press section on my website.)

Anyone able to do this? My email is gil AT buskerdog.com

Thanks!
I have set my digital recorder to record WJZ from 6 to 7 am tomorrow. I have not done this before, and I will inform you by e-mail if I am successful.

I have set my digital recorder to record WJZ from 6 to 7 am tomorrow. I have not done this before, and I will inform you by e-mail if I am successful.

Thanks! Definitely let me know. I will be recording it on my DVR but I have no way of capturing it onto the computer.

Thanks! Definitely let me know. I will be recording it on my DVR but I have no way of capturing it onto the computer.That's why you need a Tivo! ;)

I'll set mine up when I go upstairs and should be able to get it to you too.

Comcast has History Channel HD On Demand, added yesterday.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1020/cam0010oo1.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam0010oo1.jpg)

Not true!!!! I live in Forestville and I get Baltimore and DC channels. Only exceptions are 53(30), 56(57), and 66(43) which are in a different direction. BTW, when should we expect 24 to be at full power.

I already emailed 24 to ask about that and I never got an answer. The only thing I really want off that channel is Stargate Atlantis anyway.

Comcast has History Channel HD On Demand, added yesterday.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1020/cam0010oo1.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam0010oo1.jpg)

A&E HD On Demand was added today.

Did anyone manage to capture the WJZ news segments? They posted some of it on their website but I'd love to get it at a higher resolution and also they didn't include the lead-in from before the commercials. Also, who knows if they'll keep it live on their site or not.

I already emailed 24 to ask about that and I never got an answer. The only thing I really want off that channel is Stargate Atlantis anyway.
Mark Bulla, chief station engineer for WNUV/WBFF, posted this back in mid-June: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10804931&&#post10804931. He does not work for WUTB, so it is a guess, but WUTB-DT My 24 should go full power sometime this summer.

Checking the listings, looks like WUTB-DT 24 & WTTB-DT 5 are still showing the 2nd season of Stargate: Atlantis (SGA) in syndication. This is in letterboxed SD of course. Universal HD is repeating the first season of SGA in HD on Thursday nights - again. With the 3rd season done on Sci-Fi, I would assume the 3rd season of SGA will show up in syndication on the local stations this fall. Will be interesting to see if syndicated series such as SGA start to show up in HD syndication this fall or winter once the Pathfire syndication distribution system is able to handle HD programs.

I may be wrong, but I think the FCC requirement applies only to the analog feed of local "broadcast" channels, leaving the cablecos free to encrypt the digital/HD feeds (and thus charge extra for them).
Till the analogs get cut off at which point the clear QAM requirement will probably kick in. All cable co will shuffle the QAM line ups for the next 2 years. I would have thought Cox would have mapped out the locations of the chs a while ago and stick with that but seems that's not the case. For the next 2 years rescanning the QAM chs will be the norm. BTW - mapping not back as of today and CS reps are useless when it comes to technical questions.

Well, the cable guy came and fixed the digital converter box that is attached to our upstairs TV. He needed to put in a new splitter that allowed a return feed for communicating back to Comcast. So, now I have OnDemand on that one TV and a digital signal coming in there.

Unfortunately, this new splitter situation seems to have lowered the signal to my HDTV (and presumably my other regular ones). The 12X-Y and 13X-Y channels that I previously got now don't appear to be coming in anymore. The DC NBC HD channel looks really poor now.

I gave up on this for a while and then today I decided to try an experiment. Right now there is a splitter which sends the cable signals to all 4 TVs and a PC. Where I have the HDTV, I send a cable first to a VCR and then from the VCR to the TV. So, I just tried bypassing the VCR and going directly from the wall to the TV.

That seemed to have restored enough signal power to let me see all the channels with QAM tuning that I was seeing before the Comcast guy came by. They also looked better than they did before the cable guy put in that new splitter. There was no pixelation with TNT at all.

So, unless I change something it appears that in this room I can either get nice HDTV without being able to tape SD shows or I just get the SD with the ability to tape. Any ideas?

(When the cable guy came by he said there would be no charge since they didn't have the wiring correct in order for the digital converter to work. When I looked online the other day I saw a $19.95 service charge. I called and Comcast said that since March, all service calls are $19.95 unless you buy their $3.95 a month wiring insurance or something. So, I had to buy that as a better choice instead of the $19.95. I supposedly can cancel it at any time. Since I am paying for it - at least for this coming month [and part of last] - I was thinking of calling them back and seeing whether they can do something to boost the digital signal with my current setup. Has anyone been able to get any help from them with the QAM signal? )

Neil

I gave up on this for a while and then today I decided to try an experiment. Right now there is a splitter which sends the cable signals to all 4 TVs and a PC. Where I have the HDTV, I send a cable first to a VCR and then from the VCR to the TV. So, I just tried bypassing the VCR and going directly from the wall to the TV.

That seemed to have restored enough signal power to let me see all the channels with QAM tuning that I was seeing before the Comcast guy came by. They also looked better than they did before the cable guy put in that new splitter. There was no pixelation with TNT at all.

So, unless I change something it appears that in this room I can either get nice HDTV without being able to tape SD shows or I just get the SD with the ability to tape. Any ideas?

(When the cable guy came by he said there would be no charge since they didn't have the wiring correct in order for the digital converter to work. When I looked online the other day I saw a $19.95 service charge. I called and Comcast said that since March, all service calls are $19.95 unless you buy their $3.95 a month wiring insurance or something. So, I had to buy that as a better choice instead of the $19.95. I supposedly can cancel it at any time. Since I am paying for it - at least for this coming month [and part of last] - I was thinking of calling them back and seeing whether they can do something to boost the digital signal with my current setup. Has anyone been able to get any help from them with the QAM signal? )

Neil
Comcast has no reason to help with your QAM signal, but I found some time ago that my analog signal was poor, and they improved that. This also improved my QAM signal. I assume if they can improve your digital signal into the converter box it will also improve the QAM signal, but don't ask them to improve your QAM signal. At times Comcast suggests the use of an amplifier, and I have an inexpensive amplifier with 2 outputs, and it works very well.

Comcast has no reason to help with your QAM signal, but I found some time ago that my analog signal was poor, and they improved that. This also improved my QAM signal. I assume if they can improve your digital signal into the converter box it will also improve the QAM signal, but don't ask them to improve your QAM signal. At times Comcast suggests the use of an amplifier, and I have an inexpensive amplifier with 2 outputs, and it works very well.I do think that the analog signal doesn't look as good as used to, so I guess I'll start with that approach.

Neil

I’ve just moved in to an apartment on NW DC (6 and H) and I get really bad reception. My windows face south and I seem to get best reception when antenna is pointed south, but only on half the channels (of those I get). The other half works with antenna pointed SE, and some work the same regardless of antenna direction (e.g. 4.1). I am totally puzzled with this – am I getting the signal or reflection (there is a building to the south), is it too weak because of buildings or too just too messed up etc. I am using an antenna that came with ATI HD Wonder – looks like Silver Sensor (maybe it is silver sensor or a smaller version) with no amp. This was enough to get most of Buffalo/NYC channels from Toronto lakeshore, but here it is not enough. Will an amp or a better antenna (DB2?) help?

Thanks for any advice!

I’ve just moved in to an apartment on NW DC (6 and H) and I get really bad reception. My windows face south and I seem to get best reception when antenna is pointed south, but only on half the channels (of those I get). The other half works with antenna pointed SE, and some work the same regardless of antenna direction (e.g. 4.1). I am totally puzzled with this – am I getting the signal or reflection (there is a building to the south), is it too weak because of buildings or too just too messed up etc. I am using an antenna that came with ATI HD Wonder – looks like Silver Sensor (maybe it is silver sensor or a smaller version) with no amp. This was enough to get most of Buffalo/NYC channels from Toronto lakeshore, but here it is not enough. Will an amp or a better antenna (DB2?) help?
From 6th and H, the DC broadcast towers are to NW. Sounds like you have the Silver Sensor which would be the recommended antenna to try first for your situation. By aiming the antenna south and SE, you are very likely picking up reflections of the signals off of buildings to the south of you. Can you place the antenna in a window and aim it west or SW? I would assume you are in a building structure of steel I-beams which will be murder on indoor reception through the building. Does the building have a common antenna system with a co-axial connector in the apartment? Of course, even if it does, odds are that it was designed for only the analog broadcast channels and does not pass the digital broadcast channels.

Comcast is moving ESPNews and ESPN Classic to digital on 7/10, the same day A&E HD and HGTV HD are being added.

Comcast is moving ESPNews and ESPN Classic to digital on 7/10, the same day A&E HD and HGTV HD are being added.

who would have thought we'd have A&E HD and HGTV HD before SCI-FI HD?

Just seems so totally wrong

I'm still waiting for them to add Universal here on channel 250.

Was tonight the first night (as I don't see any postings on this)? Everything looked fine except the Jeopardy! credit sequence was in 4:3, I am guessing having something to do with the usual v/o for the Oprah promo.

Thanks Robert!

Ok, it's July, where are our Wheel and Jeopardy in HD on WJLADT (I wanted to be the first one to ask Robert this annoying question)?I tuned in tonight and, lo and behold, WJLA has them in HD. I have caught them on WMAR occasionally and was not overly impressed with the PQ. It just seemed a tad soft is the best way I can describe it. So imagine my surprise when I did an A/B comparison tonight and saw the marked improvement in PQ on WJLA between the two stations. That is watching WJLA on FiOS and WMAR OTA. I wasn't able to do a direct comparison since WMAR runs Jeopardy first and Wheel second and they run in the opposite order on WJLA, but still the improvement was there all the same. I would be interested in knowing if anyone else noticed such a dramatic difference. Kudos to Robert and WJLA for getting these on in HD.

Was tonight the first night (as I don't see any postings on this)? Everything looked fine except the Jeopardy! credit sequence was in 4:3, I am guessing having something to do with the usual v/o for the Oprah promo.

Thanks Robert!

For that reason and the automation requirements to get ready for ABC. Still testing though.

Kudos to Robert and WJLA for getting these on in HD.

The real thanks go to Dave Weaver and Sam Jackson. They were the engineers that pulled it off.

Has anyone been watching the Wimbledon tennis on NBC? The picture is broadcast in 16:9 format, but it sure doesn't look like HD to me. How hard can it be to put a couple of HD cameras on center court? The picture quality looked the same on both WRC and WBAL.

Has anyone been watching the Wimbledon tennis on NBC? The picture is broadcast in 16:9 format, but it sure doesn't look like HD to me. How hard can it be to put a couple of HD cameras on center court? The picture quality looked the same on both WRC and WBAL.
Check the Wimbledon thread in HDTV Programming forum that will explain what yoiu are getting on NBC and ESPN2-HD. The picture quality is better on ESPN2-HD because of how they are upconverting the widescreen PAL 576i feed. But no it is not true HD.

The real thanks go to Dave Weaver and Sam Jackson. They were the engineers that pulled it off.
Cool. Thanks for doing this.

who would have thought we'd have A&E HD and HGTV HD before SCI-FI HD?

Sci-Fi should go live by the end of the year, although who knows who will carry it besides DirecTV (provided their satellite launch tomorrow does not go boom or in the terminology of the business suffers a "minor malfunction" :eek: ). Before the announcements of the new HD channels began to come out early this year, the thinking was that it would be 2 or 3 years before we would get Sci-Fi HD. It is somewhat odd to have A&E-HD before a lot of other channels, but apparently there is not much real HD on A&E-HD (nor is there much Arts on A&E either anymore).

2007 is looking to be a very good year for HD.

Cox - Fairfax just added in High-Def On Demand movies on Channel 700. Right now they appear to be pay-per-view only, but this is a step in the right direction.

RCN just added ESPN2HD on Channel 170 in Montgomery County. So far behind in the HD game though

Cool. Thanks for doing this.


Sci-Fi should go live by the end of the year, although who knows who will carry it besides DirecTV (provided their satellite launch tomorrow does not go boom or in the terminology of the business suffers a "minor malfunction" :eek: ). Before the announcements of the new HD channels began to come out early this year, the thinking was that it would be 2 or 3 years before we would get Sci-Fi HD. It is somewhat odd to have A&E-HD before a lot of other channels, but apparently there is not much real HD on A&E-HD (nor is there much Arts on A&E either anymore).

2007 is looking to be a very good year for HD.

Yeah, the real question will be who's carrying it because everybody who's anybody has multiple HD networks scheduled for late 2007/2008. Between the dozen HBOs and Cinemax HDs launching this fall, the entire slate of Discovery networks, CNN, TBS, Cartoon Network, USA, Sci-Fi, CNBC, MSNBC(?), The Weather Channel, Disney, Toon Disney, ABC Family, FX, Speed, History Channel, and ESPNEWS all off the top of my head, there's going to be some serious crowding on the HD tier a year from now.

I wonder where Sci-Fi falls on the list of priorities? My guess is in the bottom half somewhere.

I'm just crossing my fingers for FiOS to stay on top of the new channels.

provided their satellite launch tomorrow (July 6, since this was posted on July 5th) does not go boom or in the terminology of the business suffers a "minor malfunction"
They should have waited until Saturday 7/7/07 for luck. :)

From 6th and H, the DC broadcast towers are to NW. Sounds like you have the Silver Sensor which would be the recommended antenna to try first for your situation. By aiming the antenna south and SE, you are very likely picking up reflections of the signals off of buildings to the south of you. Can you place the antenna in a window and aim it west or SW? I would assume you are in a building structure of steel I-beams which will be murder on indoor reception through the building. Does the building have a common antenna system with a co-axial connector in the apartment? Of course, even if it does, odds are that it was designed for only the analog broadcast channels and does not pass the digital broadcast channels.

Pointing antenna west or SW in a window get me just one channel 4.1, which I am getting equally well (crappy) absolutely regardles of antena position or direction. I found several things though:

1. Adding a longer cable to antenna makes me unable to get most of the channels I'm getting with the shorter one. Cables are the same, just different length (5 and 15 feet)
2. I'm getting a lot of snow, but almost no ghosting on analog channels, and the picture is very bad while sound is perfect
3. I am getting all digital channels fine if I connect the same antenna to my TV (Sony Bravia) instead of TV tuner.

My conclusing would be that I am getting a weak signal - longer cable makes it even weaker, and thus fewer channels, and TV has a more sensitive tuner than ATI Radeon. So, I was thinking what would be a better investment - antena amp or a better tuner?

Thanks

3. I am getting all digital channels fine if I connect the same antenna to my TV (Sony Bravia) instead of TV tuner.

My conclusing would be that I am getting a weak signal - longer cable makes it even weaker, and thus fewer channels, and TV has a more sensitive tuner than ATI Radeon. So, I was thinking what would be a better investment - antena amp or a better tuner?

Thanks
The ATI probably has an older tuner and the Sony a newer gen one giving the better results. The trick with a new card is knowing the gen of the tuner - you'd have to do some digging to find out. You are close enough to the towers that an amp might make things even worse - overload.

3. I am getting all digital channels fine if I connect the same antenna to my TV (Sony Bravia) instead of TV tuner.

My conclusing would be that I am getting a weak signal - longer cable makes it even weaker, and thus fewer channels, and TV has a more sensitive tuner than ATI Radeon. So, I was thinking what would be a better investment - antena amp or a better tuner?
That the TV tuner gets all the digital stations is very good news as it shows that you can get the local stations from your apartment. You don't have to spend a lot of time messing with antennas & re-scans to get any stations at all. Is the Sony TV tuner able to get all 7 HD D.C. local stations - 4,5,7,9,20,26,50 (using their analog channel numbers)?

There is a rather small difference in signal loss between a 5' and a 15' cable. The typical loss for a RG-6 cable for UHF channels is around 5 to 6 dB per 100'. Ten feet should be less than one dB loss. Are both cables RG-6, not RG-59 (even though that should not make much difference for a short run)?

You may be getting some multipath and the tuner in the Sony may be better at handling multipath than the ATI tuner. I have seen quite a few posts here at avsforum from people who had a hard time getting the PC tuners to pick up all their local stations.

Don't get an antenna with a built-in amp as those amps are usually pretty cheaply made with poor noise levels. You also don't want to get a powerful pre-amp as that may overload the receiver for the stronger stations. If you can't get a better PC tuner, then a 10 to 12 dB pre-amp or amp from a good brand name might work, but I would focus on researching options for the PC tuner first.

Was tonight the first night (as I don't see any postings on this)? Everything looked fine except the Jeopardy! credit sequence was in 4:3, I am guessing having something to do with the usual v/o for the Oprah promo.

Thanks Robert!
So how does this affect the chances of Oprah or Martha being carried in HD when they launch?

The real thanks go to Dave Weaver and Sam Jackson. They were the engineers that pulled it off.
Kudos! Great job.
So is this via satellite, or downloaded from the server?

Kudos! Great job.
So is this via satellite, or downloaded from the server?

recorded on Sony XDCam via satellite

So how does this affect the chances of Oprah or Martha being carried in HD when they launch?

It just depends. Its a case by case decision.

It just depends. Its a case by case decision.
I think a lot of people who watch Oprah (not included) would want to see it when it switches to HD, especially the way WJLA promotes it, as it is one of the highest rated syndicated shows. Does anyone have any info on what syndicated shows may be next to go HD, not just the ones on ABC-7 like Martha and Regis & Kelly

Again, I hope some mention and credit of the work done by your engineers is made on ABC-7's website (http://www.wjla.com)

recorded on Sony XDCam via satellite
So is this a quick, easy, and realtively inexpensive temporary solution?
I'll have to check the programs out this week!

I'm moving to Sterling, VA soon (eastern Loudoun county), and it looks like Comcast is my only non-satellite option there (FIOS is not yet in my neighborhood). Comcast took over Adelphia in that area recently, but their HD lineup looks severely limited.

704 WRC-HD (NBC)
705 WTTG-HD (FOX)
707 WJLA-HD (ABC)
709 WUSA-HD (CBS)
710 WETA-HD (PBS)
750 HBO HD
751 Showtime HD
752 Starz HD
770 Discovery HD
771 TNT HD
772 ESPN HD
774 iNHD 1
775 ESPN2 HD
776 Versus/Golf Channel HD

What about A&E HD and NGC HD? Can any other Loudoun residents chime in on when Comcast Loudoun will be synced up with other Comcast markets?

Anyone else getting audio breakups on WRC-DT? Comcast of Alexandria.

I just looked at the info on Boeing webpage (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/787premiere.html) and didn't see that Verizon was on board with this. Is this an exhaustive list? I'm using Verizon FiOS TV in Arlington. One would think that the AAAE's television operation on News Channel 8, ANTN (the Aviation News and Training Network), would be broadcasting this, especially considering all of the aerospace/aviation stuff that we get on public access TV in this area...

Any info would be helpful here... Thanks!

So is this a quick, easy, and realtively inexpensive temporary solution?


its a temp solution to the tune of about $35,000. I can't wait to count all the extra revenue showing these two shows in HD brings in! (sorry, had to take the shot :) )

I can't wait to count all the extra revenue showing these two shows in HD brings in!
Nothing's beyond the realm of possibility! Especially if 7.2 and 7.3 generate lots of revenue despite the fact viewers have to be awfully small in numbers, minuscule, shall we say? :)

I am getting audio breakups on all of the HD broadcast stations, 210-220 (I'm w/ Comcast in Arlington)

Anyone else getting audio breakups on WRC-DT? Comcast of Alexandria.


Yeah, I've had choppy audio on all my HD channels today. Comcast of Alexandria.

Yeah, I've had choppy audio on all my HD channels today. Comcast of Alexandria.

Ditto on Comcast MOCO, especially Fox (213). Some dropouts on the AT&T Golf (212),
but they may be remote facility problems.

I'm moving to Sterling, VA soon (eastern Loudoun county), and it looks like Comcast is my only non-satellite option there (FIOS is not yet in my neighborhood). Comcast took over Adelphia in that area recently, but their HD lineup looks severely limited.

704 WRC-HD (NBC)
705 WTTG-HD (FOX)
707 WJLA-HD (ABC)
709 WUSA-HD (CBS)
710 WETA-HD (PBS)
750 HBO HD
751 Showtime HD
752 Starz HD
770 Discovery HD
771 TNT HD
772 ESPN HD
774 iNHD 1
775 ESPN2 HD
776 Versus/Golf Channel HD

What about A&E HD and NGC HD? Can any other Loudoun residents chime in on when Comcast Loudoun will be synced up with other Comcast markets?

I want to know this too!

I'm going to be at Dominion Station and Fios is not available at my address.

My settlement is a month from today!! :)

its a temp solution to the tune of about $35,000. I can't wait to count all the extra revenue showing these two shows in HD brings in! (sorry, had to take the shot :) )

:eek: If a temp solution costs $35K the permanent solution must be extremely expensive. :eek:

I want to know this too!

I'm going to be at Dominion Station and Fios is not available at my address.

My settlement is a month from today!! :)

Hey, we're right around the corner! I'll be in Peace Plantation, which, IIRC, is right next to Dominion Station. Congrats on the new house! :)

I am getting audio breakups on all of the HD broadcast stations, 210-220 (I'm w/ Comcast in Arlington)

All my HD channels have been having breakups as well since Saturday. Anyone hear of any problems?

All my HD channels have been having breakups as well since Saturday. Anyone hear of any problems?

well, a handfull of people here seem to have the problem. It was so bad during Wimbledon that I had to watch the Analog station so I could hear all the commentary. I wonder if they are doing upgrades or something...

its a temp solution to the tune of about $35,000. I can't wait to count all the extra revenue showing these two shows in HD brings in! (sorry, had to take the shot )

Wasn't the $35K less than it could have been because WJLA and Sony worked some sort of deal out?

You gotta admit Robert, those two shows look a lot better . But how much was just spent for all the HD cameras you were telling us about for the eventual move to getting ABC 7 news in High Def in the near future, hopefully?

When an HD show is aired on NBC after a SD telecast, the first segment of that show does not appear in HD quite often. (Las Vegas after 1 vs. 100 on Fridays and movies/Law and Order on Sundays, for example after Dateline) Is this a network issue or is someone at WRC-DT not doing something?

Unfortunately, I would not hold your breath for those. I've been with Adelphia/Comcast since 1998, and those HD channels are the only ones (aside from HDnet, which was removed when comcast took over) that have ever been offered. I believe that since Loudoun is such a small market (30k subscribers, I think) that there's no incentive for them to spend them money, when 59% of the eligible tv's use directv or dish in the county.

Unfortunately, I would not hold your breath for those. I've been with Adelphia/Comcast since 1998, and those HD channels are the only ones (aside from HDnet, which was removed when comcast took over) that have ever been offered. I believe that since Loudoun is such a small market (30k subscribers, I think) that there's no incentive for them to spend them money, when 59% of the eligible tv's use directv or dish in the county.

Interesting. Maybe I will end up going the satellite route; the previous owners had a DirecTV dish mounted near the roof, so presumably I can get reception.

Thanks for the insight.

Unfortunately, I would not hold your breath for those. I've been with Adelphia/Comcast since 1998, and those HD channels are the only ones (aside from HDnet, which was removed when comcast took over) that have ever been offered. I believe that since Loudoun is such a small market (30k subscribers, I think) that there's no incentive for them to spend them money, when 59% of the eligible tv's use directv or dish in the county.
kind of a catch-22 there. I got a sweet deal through Adelphia(for one year) last September. I'll commend comcast for honoring the deal signed by Adelphia, but when comcast tries to charge me over 5 times more for this same service I am currenly receiving, I am going to be pushing that percentage even higher.

Interesting. Maybe I will end up going the satellite route; the previous owners had a DirecTV dish mounted near the roof, so presumably I can get reception.

Thanks for the insight.

Depends on what the dish is. If it is the old, single arm dish, you won't get any HD. You need the 3LNB dish to get some HD and will need the newest (5LNB dish) to get the 100 channels DirecTV will have starting in September.

If you go satellite, make sure you get an OTA antenna to supplement the local HD channels (DirecTV only has NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and MYN for the DC area).

To catch up on DirecTV stuff, go to www.dbstalk.com. Plenty there to read.

Depends on what the dish is. If it is the old, single arm dish, you won't get any HD. You need the 3LNB dish to get some HD and will need the newest (5LNB dish) to get the 100 channels DirecTV will have starting in September.

If you go satellite, make sure you get an OTA antenna to supplement the local HD channels (DirecTV only has NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and MYN for the DC area).

To catch up on DirecTV stuff, go to www.dbstalk.com. Plenty there to read.

If I did go with the dish, I would definitely replace the current equipment with new 5LNB hardware.

How does the OTA antenna work? Does it mount on the dish? Will I need to switch inputs on my TV to get the OTA signals?

If I did go with the dish, I would definitely replace the current equipment with new 5LNB hardware.

How does the OTA antenna work? Does it mount on the dish? Will I need to switch inputs on my TV to get the OTA signals?

You can mount the antenna anywhere that works for you. If DirecTV will install it for you, go ahead. Otherwise, get a local installer to put one in.

The antenna connects to the back of the tuner (I recommend the HR20 HD DVR) and you get the OTA channels in the guide seamlessly. You can record them and view them the same as the satellite stations.

Use antennaweb.org to see what you would need.

Unfortunately, I would not hold your breath for those. I've been with Adelphia/Comcast since 1998, and those HD channels are the only ones (aside from HDnet, which was removed when comcast took over) that have ever been offered. I believe that since Loudoun is such a small market (30k subscribers, I think) that there's no incentive for them to spend them money, when 59% of the eligible tv's use directv or dish in the county.
I have to disagree with your (understandably) gloomy assessment. Loudoun county is one of the wealthier counties in the US with a large percentage of white color professionals. You don't think that Comcast is not upgrading the system in Loudoun county?

After a long delay getting FCC approval for the complex Comcast & Time Warner buy-up of bankrupt Adelphia, Comcast finally took over the Adelphia franchises in VA on August 1, 2006. I was with Adelphia at that time and they had 13 HD channels with WETA-DT 26 the last one added in October, 2005. After I moved to Sterling in July, 2005, because I knew Verizon Fios was out there somewhere, that Comcast was going to take over Adelphia in Loudoun (but the takeover took a lot longer than was expected back then), and I did not want to lock myself to a DBS contract, so I went with Adelphia for TV & net. To get more HD channels, I put up an antenna to get WETA-DT 26, WDCW 50, MPT from the WFPT-DT 62 station south of Frederick, MD and the Baltimore stations. WDCA-DT 20 was at very low power back then; I could not get it OTA until they went to full power last summer – just before UPN went away.

The fact that Comcast has only expanded the HD line-up to a total of 14 channels (dropping HDNet and HDNet Movies) indicates that the Loudoun system must be seriously bandwidth limited. I don't know if you ever checked the Harrisonburg-Charlottesville thread, but Adelphia in the Charlottesville area did not even have any HD channels - zero, nada. You can imagine there were a lot of frustrated Adelphia subscribers down there. After the Comcast take-over there, they started adding HD channels, IIRC, starting back in February of this year.

Comcast is obviously upgrading the Adelphia cable systems they took over. They have to if they expect to expand or even keep whatever market share they have against DBS and Verizon Fios. What we don’t know is when Comcast Loudoun & other ex-Adelphia counties will start adding new HD channels. The CSR you get on the phone is not going to tell you because they either don’t know or are required to give standard reply has been provided to them. I don’t recall having read any reports or articles on whether local Comcast management has made any statements as to when they would/might add more HD channels in the ex-Adelphia areas.

I was fortunate as Verizon Fios internet & TV became available on my street last October. I switched from Comcast/Adelphia right away and have been satisfied with the service (albeit with some quirks). But if Verizon were still not available to me, I would be facing the same dilemma others in Loudoun are dealing with. If you live in the denser developments in eastern Loudoun, you know that Verizon Fios is coming, but how soon – next month, this fall, next year? We know Comcast Loudoun will add more HD channels and expand HD VOD, but when? With the new HD satellite now launched and due to be operational in September, do you commit to a agreement with DirecTV if that is an option or wait several months longer to see what happens? Tough decision to make because of the lack of info with respect to Comcast upgrade and Verizon Fios roll-out schedule.

My suggestion to those stuck with Comcast in eastern Loudoun is to put up an antenna. Any recently purchased HDTV will have a built-in ATSC tuner. It is not difficult to get WDCW-DT CW 50, WDCA-DT My 20, and MPT from WFPT-DT 62 or WMPT-DT 22 over the air from most of Loudoun County. With some luck in location and a rooftop or attic mounted longer range antenna, people in Loudoun can get most or all of the Baltimore stations in HD as well. Even if you go DBS, cable, or Fios, useful as a backup or as a free signal source to a 2nd or 3rd TV. If you need help with selecting a antenna, ask here and also check the OTA reception FAQ sticky & other threads in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum.

Thanks afiggatt.

Are there other Adelphia takeover regions that are experiencing similar frustrations to Loudoun Co.? What has the progress been like there?

Thanks afiggatt.

Are there other Adelphia takeover regions that are experiencing similar frustrations to Loudoun Co.? What has the progress been like there?


Here in Frederick, MD, the switch has been so-so. There are bordering counties that have more HD channels, but for the most part things are much quicker to happen than Adelphia. That being said, here are the HD channels offered to me in New Market, MD, just outside of Frederick.

NBC, FOX, CBS, ABC, WDCA, PBS, TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, MOJO, NAT. GEO., DISCOVERY, VSGLF, AND THE PREMIUM CHANNELS (HBO, SHOWTIME, ETC.)

Still don't have Comcast Sports Net HD, A&EHD, or HistoryHD as others are reporting in neighboring counties. Hopefully soon.

Comcast's information channel said that A&E HD and HGTV HD would be added on "Monday, July 10" in Howard County.

Well, today is Monday and tomorrow is July 10 (but it is Tuesday). Wonder which day they are turning them on. So far, I haven't seen them.

HDTV channels do not seem to be working tonight at 9:15 PM in Comcast based Frederick, MD. Can anyone confirm theirs is working tonight? Thank You.

Comcast in Baltimore City has added A&E HD (channel 223) and HGTV HD (channel 229).

Comcast in Baltimore City has added A&E HD (channel 223) and HGTV HD (channel 229).

Same in Harford County

GoIrish

Thanks afiggatt.

Are there other Adelphia takeover regions that are experiencing similar frustrations to Loudoun Co.? What has the progress been like there?It sounds like Spotsylvania has the same Comcast/Adelphia HD lineup, problems, and bandwidth contraints. I was surprised when Adelphia scrapped VOIP plans in our area back in 2005, and even more surprised that additional services (VOIP, Digital Simulcasting, faster broadband) and HD channels haven't been added. Verizon has been offering FiOS TV services in the county for almost a year, but the build-out has been very slow so not much has changed...yet.

On Comcast Loudoun County woes...I am still fuming over the fact that Golf/VS "HD" was added over Comcast Sports Net - HD. I'm in Eastern Loudoun and hope Verizon can makes it way over to Colonnade @ Dulles Town Center. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see a street in my development listed on VZ's Virginia buildout plan for July. It's a very small street (Debhill Terrace), so I'm wondering if VZ will also work on other streets in my development or if their monthly plans strictly list exactly which streets they are working on for that month. If the latter case is true, I'm curious as to why VZ would make the jump across Rt.7 (where most of the work has been done) to such a small street and not have a few other streets in their plan.

On Comcast Loudoun County woes...I am still fuming over the fact that Golf/VS "HD" was added over Comcast Sports Net - HD. I'm in Eastern Loudoun and hope Verizon can makes it way over to Colonnade @ Dulles Town Center. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see a street in my development listed on VZ's Virginia buildout plan for July. It's a very small street (Debhill Terrace), so I'm wondering if VZ will also work on other streets in my development or if their monthly plans strictly list exactly which streets they are working on for that month. If the latter case is true, I'm curious as to why VZ would make the jump across Rt.7 (where most of the work has been done) to such a small street and not have a few other streets in their plan.
How does one get to see the "VZ's Virginia buildout plan"?

How does one get to see the "VZ's Virginia buildout plan"?

http://www22.verizon.com/about/community/va/

There's a section called FTTP Deployment that is updated with a new plan every month.

News Release

Verizon to Bring Its Revolutionary All-Fiber-Optic Network and FiOS Internet, TV Services to Manassas and Manassas Park in Virginia

Communities to Join Much of Northern Virginia in Getting Verizon's Industry-Leading Fiber-to-the-Premises Network

June 28, 2007

Media Contact:
Christy Reap, 202-392-1021




MANASSAS, Va. - For residents of Manassas and Manassas Park who want the fastest Internet speeds on the market or who want to kiss their cable company goodbye, help is on the way.

Verizon, the company that is building the nation's most advanced digital all-fiber-optic network straight to customers' homes, is beginning its all-fiber construction in these communities.

"FiOS Internet and TV services have been an extraordinary hit with consumers in Northern Virginia, and we're eager for Manassas and Manassas Park residents to join the growing number of FiOS fans," said Robert W. Woltz Jr., president of Verizon Virginia. "Verizon is offering consumers a superior choice by providing the best network available at a competitive price for voice, data and video services."

The network uses hair-thin strands of fiber and optical electronics to directly link homes and businesses to Verizon's network and replaces the traditional copper-wire connections for voice, high-speed Internet and TV.

Verizon must obtain cable franchises from the city councils in Manassas and Manassas Park in order to offer video service. Verizon currently has franchises with neighboring Fairfax, Prince William and Loudoun counties, as well as other municipalities in Virginia.

so how soon before Manassas and Manassas Park residents can signup for FIOS TV?

On Comcast Loudoun County woes...I am still fuming over the fact that Golf/VS "HD" was added over Comcast Sports Net - HD. I'm in Eastern Loudoun and hope Verizon can makes it way over to Colonnade @ Dulles Town Center. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see a street in my development listed on VZ's Virginia buildout plan for July. It's a very small street (Debhill Terrace), so I'm wondering if VZ will also work on other streets in my development or if their monthly plans strictly list exactly which streets they are working on for that month. If the latter case is true, I'm curious as to why VZ would make the jump across Rt.7 (where most of the work has been done) to such a small street and not have a few other streets in their plan.
To be clear, the list on Verizon's website is not a buildout plan, but the streets & sub-divisions that they will (may?) have crews working on anything from laying down orange tubes to putting in fiber optics & central distribution boxes. They may be running a cable through Debhill Terrace for places beyond or already put in orange tubes on the other streets months ago.

Also, Verizon Fios does not yet have either the Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD or Versus/Golf HD channels. Verizon has been adding the local regional sports nets in HD to other cities & states around the rest of the country, but there has been no word at all for months now as to when they would add CSN MA HD here. I expect CSN MA HD will just show up one day without advance notice. Versus/Golf HD is a national HD channel, so it would be added by Verizon as part of any national HD channel expansion. The SD version of all 3 channels are carried by Verizon.

It is odd that Comcast has not added their own CSN MA HD to Loudoun and other ex-Adelphia areas. But Comcast owns either all or part of both the Versus & Golf channels so they have motivation to add it to local systems as well.

Comcast's information channel said that A&E HD and HGTV HD would be added on "Monday, July 10" in Howard County.Pehaps they meant "the next time July 10th falls on a Monday", which is 2017. :D

http://www22.verizon.com/about/community/va/

There's a section called FTTP Deployment that is updated with a new plan every month.
Super. The are working one subdivision over. When they finish there, that will mean my subdivision will be completely surrounded by FIOS, while we remain FIOS free. Gotta love the logic of verizon.

I'm still surprised that HGTV is being added without the Food Network HD. Those two seem to always go hand in hand. Besides, Food-HD is the better of the two. :D

Pehaps they meant "the next time July 10th falls on a Monday", which is 2017. :D

Came to life today (July 10) in Howard County as they did in Harford County and Baltimore City.

Now if they would just swap to Motorola in Howard County since they are rolling Tivo out on Moto boxes in the Boston area in August....

Came to life today (July 10) in Howard County as they did in Harford County and Baltimore City.

Now if they would just swap to Motorola in Howard County since they are rolling Tivo out on Moto boxes in the Boston area in August....

That won't happen. Too much infrastructure change needed. We in Harford County also have SA8300HD DVRs. But at least this year's software upgrade made it more like the Motos. And I have a hard drive attached so I'm not looking for changes any time soon.

Rich N.

I hope this big storm we're having in Baltimore doesn't knock out my cable. I didn't get to see any HD on HGTV this morning because they were showing six hours of infomercials.

That won't happen. Too much infrastructure change needed. We in Harford County also have SA8300HD DVRs. But at least this year's software upgrade made it more like the Motos. And I have a hard drive attached so I'm not looking for changes any time soon.

Rich N.

Ugh. The SA8300 is horrible. It is still nowhere near the Motos and light years away from the DirecTV HR20 or any Tivo out there. I can always hope they bring Tivo to it at least.

But with all the updates they are making all over the country, moving to a standard Moto system would make sense. Especially when they move to the Chicago model or to switched video.

Comcast in Baltimore City has added A&E HD (channel 223) and HGTV HD (channel 229).

Keep rollin' to Frederick, MD! Please!!!

Keep rollin' to Frederick, MD! Please!!!

And DC! I hate being left behind! I especially am ready for HGTV (and Food, whenever they can toss that our way).

And DC! I hate being left behind! I especially am ready for HGTV (and Food, whenever they can toss that our way).

You want food thrown at you? I am sure you can find somewhere in DC where they would do that, but that is not to be discussed on a family forum.

;)

Anyone else in Eastern Loudoun(sterling) with comcast lose CBS in HD on clear QAM? I've done two scans and it's not picking it up.

Super. The are working one subdivision over. When they finish there, that will mean my subdivision will be completely surrounded by FIOS, while we remain FIOS free. Gotta love the logic of verizon.

Thats how mine is too. I live right across Route 50 where they have FiOS and north of me has FiOS. Maybe Verizon isn't rolling out because there is a hospital nearby.

You want food thrown at you? I am sure you can find somewhere in DC where they would do that, but that is not to be discussed on a family forum.

;)

I deserved that :).

Keep rollin' to Frederick, MD! Please!!!


no addition in calvert yet... wife is praying hard for HGTV!!

A heads up for anyone in Northern Virginia who has Cox as their cable provider and subscribes to digital service either with a set top box or cablecards connected to their equipment that employs GEMSTAR's TVGOSG embedded program guide:

Today, I noticed about 11AM that Cox reconverted WETA PBS 26 (metro area host channel) back to a digital signal. For the past 3 weeks, and after listening to disgruntled customers like myself complain after the inital conversion to all channels digital at the end of May, they had changed it back to an analog signal in the digtal lineup so that GEMSTAR TVGOS data could be passed from the host station (WETA 26) and guide data could be dowloaded through the cable.

Now it is digital again, and anyone with TVs, or Dvrs that have cablecards in them or with a STB will not be able to get the daily program guide effectively making the hardware almost useless without the guide. This really stinks. They made many of us believe for 3 weeks that they were listening to our concerns and were trying to work with us to make our Cox experience "Pleasant" Now, if they don't fix this again and keep an analog channel in the digital lineup that passes VBI TVGOS data, we are stuck!

hednic, I just noticed that the analog 26 channel(no picture, though) is still available. It might be passing the TVGOS info still. I'm not using TVGOS currently because the TV is acting up with TVGOS. I had contacted Cox about this issue, but they gave me a crappy response, and told me to got to tvguide.com to get listings. If the info is gone again, I will send another response to them for TVGOS to work. Everybody has to chip in for this to work, or else, it's OTA for TVGOS, forever.

They should have waited until Saturday 7/7/07 for luck. :)

The satellite went up successfully and it was actually launched on 7/7/07 - it was early morning in Baykonur, Kazakhstan. Baykonur is GMT +05:00. East Coast US is GMT -05:00. Ten hour time difference. So 9:30 at night in the US was 7:30 in the morning the following day.

hednic, I just noticed that the analog 26 channel(no picture, though) is still available. It might be passing the TVGOS info still. I'm not using TVGOS currently because the TV is acting up with TVGOS. I had contacted Cox about this issue, but they gave me a crappy response, and told me to got to tvguide.com to get listings. If the info is gone again, I will send another response to them for TVGOS to work. Everybody has to chip in for this to work, or else, it's OTA for TVGOS, forever.

True, it's still available and passing data as an analog channel if you use OTA or use analog cable service (basic or expanded basic cable ready) But if you have cablecards like myself for digital service inserted into a SONY HD DVR, or TV, channel 26 isn't analog, it's been made again digital (QAM 256 modulated) so I can't get GEMSTAR PROGRAM GUIDE DATA to schedule recordings on digital channels I subscribe to. I am awaiting a response from Cox. This is affecting many in our area. They rectified this once already, but my feeling is that they will leave it digital from now on, which stinks.

So I guess unless they make it analog again for digital subscribers, I'll have to pop out the cablecard every night before I go to bed for the guide to download data from 26 and reinsert it during the day when I want to record a digitally mapped channel, given that the analog 26 and digital 26 are mapped to the same numbered channel.

Speaking of WETA, is anyone other than me having trouble accessing the digital signals OTA from WETA since the storms yesterday. Or do Ijust have to go an the roof and play around with the antenna. Remember a couple of years ago, there was a comment that WETA would be moving their transmitter to the Tenleytown towers. Anyone with an update on that would be appreciated,

But if you have cablecards like myself for digital service inserted into a SONY HD DVR, or TV, channel 26 isn't analog, it's been made again digital (QAM 256 modulated) so I can't get GEMSTAR PROGRAM GUIDE DATA to schedule recordings on digital channels I subscribe to. I am awaiting a response from Cox. This is affecting many in our area. They rectified this once already, but my feeling is that they will leave it digital from now on, which stinks.

I do have CableCARD(in a TV), but WETA 26 shows up as analog and digital. I have two inputs on my TV, so CableCARD is on ANT 1 and direct cable on ANT 2. If I designate ANT 2 as an antenna, the TVGOS info comes in through ANT 2 flawless.
I do have a weird problem with my TV though, as ANT 2 channels come up on 26 analog on CableCARD, but thats another story. Cox is probably going to give TVGOS info the boot, but what I don't understand is channel 95 is analog, so why not retransmit TVGOS info from there. I asked for that and they just said subscribe to our box...

Everybody has to chip in for this to work, or else, it's OTA for TVGOS, forever.
Well, at least 2/18/09. ;)

That's true, biker19, I never actually thought about that. But in the TVGOS diagnostic screen there is a menu for "ATSC slicer," which means a possibility in decoding PSIP info as well, through a firmware update. But still, 2/18/07 will be a funeral for a lot of things.

I do have CableCARD(in a TV), but WETA 26 shows up as analog and digital. I have two inputs on my TV, so CableCARD is on ANT 1 and direct cable on ANT 2. If I designate ANT 2 as an antenna, the TVGOS info comes in through ANT 2 flawless.
I do have a weird problem with my TV though, as ANT 2 channels come up on 26 analog on CableCARD, but thats another story. Cox is probably going to give TVGOS info the boot, but what I don't understand is channel 95 is analog, so why not retransmit TVGOS info from there. I asked for that and they just said subscribe to our box...

I guess I kind of understand your setup which seems very different from mine. The cablecard in my TV isn't really the problem. I don't care that everything including WETA 26 is digital through the cablecard because my Sony TV doesn't have GEMSTAR. The problem is realy my Sony HD Tuner/DVR that has the GEMSTAR online program guide that I need to schedule recordings and get a correct clock signal, since the clock can't be set manually either, and depends on analog 26. I have two inputs on the back of each piece- one for cable and one for antenna. I have my cable coming out of the wall going through a splitter with one end going to my TV's cable input and the other going to my HD Tuner/DVR's cable input. Both pieces of equipment have cablecards. I can't further split the signal going into my HD tuner/dvr from the wall to both dvr inputs because a splitter won't allow the transfer of the data to the DVR.

My understanding from speaking to a tech at Gemstar is that TVGOS products produced before 2006 must receive data and programming content via the same input, negating the use of a splitter to get TVGOS analog data. This is because splitters used in order to run the cable to the tuner of the CE product will not allow the firmware in the DVR to be configured to control both the cablecard and direct cable to the unit. The only solution is hoping for Cox to add back an analog channel (below 100) with the TVGOS data of the station being simulcast to the digital channel lineup for digital cable boxes and CableCARDs, thereby resolving the digital simulcast problem. Right now, I'm reduced to removing the cablecard from my HD Tuner/DVR before I go to bed so that the data can be dowloaded on what then becomes analog 26 and then in the morning putting back in the DVR. It's a real pain, but I have no other viable choice. I can't use an external antenna.
I'm dependant on cable. I guess in early 2009 it will be a moot issue, as WETA will cease to have any analog signal, and therefore no GEMSTAR. Boo!

Comcast has added A@E HD and History Channel HD to On Demand, but not yet to channel lineup. Anyone know why?

Comcast has added A@E HD and History Channel HD to On Demand, but not yet to channel lineup. Anyone know why?
Can't say why Comcast in your area has not added A&E-HD, but History-HD has not gone "linear" yet (new term that I had not seen before). In other words, History-HD is not available as a broadcast channel, but is on the list of HD channels that Dish will add in mid-August and DirecTV will add when their new satellite fires up in September. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=869560 for the thread on History-HD offerings on Comcast VOD.

I guess I kind of understand your setup which seems very different from mine. The cablecard in my TV isn't really the problem. I don't care that everything including WETA 26 is digital through the cablecard because my Sony TV doesn't have GEMSTAR. The problem is realy my Sony HD Tuner/DVR that has the GEMSTAR online program guide that I need to schedule recordings and get a correct clock signal, since the clock can't be set manually either, and depends on analog 26. I have two inputs on the back of each piece- one for cable and one for antenna. I have my cable coming out of the wall going through a splitter with one end going to my TV's cable input and the other going to my HD Tuner/DVR's cable input. Both pieces of equipment have cablecards. I can't further split the signal going into my HD tuner/dvr from the wall to both dvr inputs because a splitter won't allow the transfer of the data to the DVR.

My understanding from speaking to a tech at Gemstar is that TVGOS products produced before 2006 must receive data and programming content via the same input, negating the use of a splitter to get TVGOS analog data. This is because splitters used in order to run the cable to the tuner of the CE product will not allow the firmware in the DVR to be configured to control both the cablecard and direct cable to the unit. The only solution is hoping for Cox to add back an analog channel (below 100) with the TVGOS data of the station being simulcast to the digital channel lineup for digital cable boxes and CableCARDs, thereby resolving the digital simulcast problem. Right now, I'm reduced to removing the cablecard from my HD Tuner/DVR before I go to bed so that the data can be dowloaded on what then becomes analog 26 and then in the morning putting back in the DVR. It's a real pain, but I have no other viable choice. I can't use an external antenna.
I'm dependant on cable. I guess in early 2009 it will be a moot issue, as WETA will cease to have any analog signal, and therefore no GEMSTAR. Boo!


Great News! Just got a call from a top supervisor at Cox who admitted that I was right and they were wrong. Apparently after he spoke with the engineering department, someone had in fact flipped the wrong switch while they were changing the digital short form logos on the channels and inadvertently made WETA 26 digital. They actually apologized for the inconvenience and said it was returned to an analog signal for all Cox subscribers with any level of service analog or digital and that they will retransmit and leave WETA 26 analog until WETA itself decides to no longer send out an analog signal. I checked, and it's back! So I know I'll be fine now until February 2009. The little guy sometimes scores a minor victory!

Can anyone help me out, I was wondeirng what is the easiest way for me to transfer programs on my SA8300 to my computer. I do not have firewire on my computer. Can I use a USB cable? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Dan

I'm pretty sure that Firewire is a must. Check over in the HTPC or HDTV Hardware forums. Those guys talk about this stuff all the time, and I'm sure they'd have a quick answer for you.

Washington DC TV Station 'Hijacked' By Mystery Photo
The local ABC affiliate in the nation's capital is suddenly interrupted for two hours by a mysterious image of a man and woman. But station officials say it was just an Oprah promo gone wrong.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (July 13, 2007) -- WJLA-TV, the ABC affiliate in Washington, D.C., had its Digital TV signal interrupted this morning for two hours when a mysterious photo of a man and woman took over the screen.

The grainy black-and-white photo appeared on screen during the normal time slot for the station's Good Morning Washington news program. Shortly after 7 a.m.,Good Morning America's Digital TV network feed took over, removing the image. (The photo was not displayed on the station's analog feed.)

http://www.tvpredictions.com/wjla071307.htm

Speaking of WETA, is anyone other than me having trouble accessing the digital signals OTA from WETA since the storms yesterday. Or do Ijust have to go an the roof and play around with the antenna. Remember a couple of years ago, there was a comment that WETA would be moving their transmitter to the Tenleytown towers. Anyone with an update on that would be appreciated,
Since no one replied to this, I had the typical signal strength I get for WETA-DT 26 last night; WETA-DT came in fine. WETA-DT has a construction permit to move their transmitter location from Arlington to NW DC and boost their power from 75 kW to 90 kW. WETA-DT will stay on UHF 27. But there has been no word on when they will do the move. I don't know if there are any interference issues with WETA-TV analog on UHF 26 or WFPT-DT MPT 62 in Frederick on UHF 28 that have to be resolved first. There may be some documents buried at the FCC website that might provide info on when or if WETA will move the digital transmitter. I'll should do a search for them sometime. I would like them to move their digital transmission to NW DC as that would simplify my antenna aim issues.

I would like them to move their digital transmission to NW DC as that would simplify my antenna aim issues.

+1

Washington DC TV Station 'Hijacked' By Mystery Photo
The local ABC affiliate in the nation's capital is suddenly interrupted for two hours by a mysterious image of a man and woman. But station officials say it was just an Oprah promo gone wrong.

This can't be good - TV signal hacking :confused: I assume Robert will have an explanation.

So everyone in Eastern Loudoun is getting CBS-9 in HD just fine through QAM?

There was a incident a few years back when a Carnival cruise ship was stuck on the screen for a long time during prime time.

So everyone in Eastern Loudoun is getting CBS-9 in HD just fine through QAM?
Are you asking if they are getting the channel in the clear via Comcast Loudoun? Or Verizon Fios? WUSA-DT CBS 9 did jump to 34.1 (their actual broadcast channel) on my Samsung SIR-T451 ATSC receiver last night, so I assume they sent out some bad PSIP data.

TV signal hacking :confused:


HA! That article is a prime example of someone trying to make a lot of fire out of a little smoke. I guess his web traffic went above 50 today. :)


The Flexicoder locked up on an image during an Oprah promo in SD mode.

So are you trying to tell is that your station wasn't seized by Pirate commandos and forced to show this image for hours?

HA! That article is a prime example of someone trying to make a lot of fire out of a little smoke. I guess his web traffic went above 50 today. :)


The Flexicoder locked up on an image during an Oprah promo in SD mode.Over 50?... Ouch...

...trying to make a lot of fire out of a little smoke.
Yeah, but where there's smoke, there's fire! :)