I lost 7 and 9 today after the transition. I got 7 at around 85-90% and 9 at 100% before. Now my Dish Network box doesn't see them at all. If it's a 612, I can sympathize. I think the firmware is buggy. I got zero channels until I un-amped my rooftop antenna. Now I get a few. Deleting the channels and rescanning 5 or 6 times seems to have recovered all the channels I care about. I did not have any problem like this with my 722, nor any of the other tuners in the house.

I installed the CECB for my in-laws VHF antenna today and they picked up WJLA-DT, WUSA-DT, WWPX-DT, and WJZ-DT. The "Sweet-Spot" ended up at 144°M.

It aslo acquired WHTM-DT, when I pointed it towards 66°M. WGAL-DT goes to RF8 at 23:59.

I was surprised that they couldn't get WHAG-DT, WWPB-DT, or WJAL-DT. Especially since they live so close to those towers (10-15 miles).

They live NE of Mercersburg, PA.

If it's a 612, I can sympathize. I think the firmware is buggy. I got zero channels until I un-amped my rooftop antenna. Now I get a few. Deleting the channels and rescanning 5 or 6 times seems to have recovered all the channels I care about. I did not have any problem like this with my 722, nor any of the other tuners in the house.

It is a 622. I have never had any issues before. I have have rescanned, deleted 7 and 9 and rescanned, and deleted all and rescanned and finally i did a check switch and reboot on the box.

After i finish watching the hockey game i'm gonna use my tv tuner and see if it picks them up.

You are at a complicated location with markets in different directions. You might consider a 4 bay bowtie for UHF as the flat plate bowties pick up UHF over a wide spread in azimuth. Then a medium range upper VHF antenna that is not too directional. Lots of different antenna setups to consider. Check the antenna threads in the HDTV Technical forum for advice. Also, read up on the antenna basics and comparisons at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html.



Okay, thanks for the help! Feel like I'm on my way :)

Also thanks pcity and Digital Rules. I've got more reading to do but your replies have me headed in the right direction.

Similar to other people, I lost 11 WJZDT and 13 WBALDT and tivo has messed up the guide data for WNVC. I am in herndon with a CM4221 and an amplifier, that was left over from when the house had cox.

What a horrible idea to return WJLA-DT, WUSA-DT, WBAL-DT, and WJZ-DT back to VHF!!! For years I have had rock-solid digital reception for all of these channels on UHF. I have a roof mounted (& rotatable) top-of-the-line VHF/UHF fringe yagi and all of the digital VHF channels are constantly pixelating and full of audio drops outs (bit errors). My signal level on these channels isn't weak either. There's just too much interference around here on VHF. I feel that we took a major step back today. I AM ONLY 30 MILES AWAY from DC and Baltimore. THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!! All of my UHF DTV channels are coming in great by the way.

The verdict is in. My donated Winegard "Ghost Killer" antenna is providing lots of happiness to a good friend with limited funds. All the DC stations still come in great(except WMDO-47), but to my surprise 11 & 13 are coming in also!!(11 is marginal though). Combined with a Winegard 8275 pre-amp it provides amazing reception to her less than ideal location. She especially likes MPT (22, 62, & 67) which she could not get with the large Radio Shack antenna it replaced.:)

For those of you having trouble with the VHF channels, if you have a DISH box (at least the 612, I haven't rescanned my 722 yet) try going into Add Local and adding the channels individually that the scan isn't picking up. Also, it takes five to ten seconds to get a lock at first. Select DONE after each one so they are saved.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=87299&catid=158

includes video from the Tower change.

I lost all of the digital OTA channels over Comcast/Eastern Prince William after a rescan this evening. Any idea as to why? I had been picking them up straight from the demarc box with an HDTV, built-in digital tuner.

I can't figure out how companies like WJLA, WBAL, WJZ, and WUSA can set up a digital broadcast that runs perfectly for years on their digital frequency. Then on the day of the transition, just shut down what was proven to be working and switch to something that nobody in the viewing area has even seen, used, or tested. I knew that I was going to have issues because of a UHF only antenna but this is like beta testing a product and the day before you release it, you rewrite the whole thing and go live anyway. And everyone is wondering why this transition didn't go smoothly.

Rant over. Enjoy your evening. Off to watch game 7 of the Stanley Cup. At least that's on WRC and they're running the same configuration that they've always had.

I'de have to agree....I'm having a lot of problems getting WUSA 9 and some minor issues with 7...and I live less than 20 miles from the transmitters!

Digital VHF is just not very indoor antenna friendly. The DTV spectrum is too overcrowded in our part of the country. It would have been better for the general public if the FCC didn't sell so many of the UHF frequency allotments. UHF just works better in general for DTV. Many people can't have/don't want a large outdor antenna.

The only real winners are the TV stations that did get VHF allotments. They are saving a tremendous amount of money on their electricity bills. But on the other hand, if they are losing lots of viewers, then it seems their advertising revenue would drop.

Doesn't make sense.:confused:

Great......basically all the tv's without a cable signal use indoor antennas.....only one of them can get both vhf channels.

BTW to update, my MIL in Annapolis is now only really missing WUSA and WWJZ. Not really sure how to handle the situation as other UHF and VHF channels are doing fine. This seems to mirror others here on the forums though. Any idea if these two are transmitting lower power?

Cox NoVA updates:

Added MPTDT (767), MPT2 (812), and ?MPT3? (22, SD simulcast of MPT as far as I can tell ... I thought this was s'posed to be V-ME)
Added WPXW Ion (715), displacing Palladia to 769
Added WHUT (32, I guess)

Kind weird that Cox moved Palladia just to put Ion on 715. I kinda wished they has tried to mimic their SD channel numbers when they went HD. Might have avoided some of this.

I updated my GoogleDocs chart (see link in sig) for Cox. Perhaps some folks can help me update the other providers in the coming days.

-SUO
ClearQAM info for new Cox channels:

22 and 32 are on RF32, PSIP maps to 22 and 32,;but as noted, there is no V-ME. Hopefully, Cox will fix this.

ION-HD is on RF36 with MY20. 20 now maps to 20.1, but ION maps to 15.1 instead of 66.1.

No sign of MHz9 or MHz10 anywhere on the box, and still no MHz at all via clearQAM.

There's just too much interference around here on VHF. I feel that we took a major step back today. I AM ONLY 30 MILES AWAY from DC and Baltimore. THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!! All of my UHF DTV channels are coming in great by the way.What kind of interference? You are well within the coverage area of these stations. A good combo antenna that isn't overamplifed should have no problem. WJZ's weak 9kw signal is reaching a tiny antenna down in a hole over 50 miles away just fine. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d7d02d523de

WPXW filed an updated termination notice with the FCC on June 4 changing to a morning shutdown, which is why they were able to go around noon with the others.

WFDC-14 has been showing a countdown clock indicating 11:59:59 shutdown.

The end of full power analog is near…

(Except for nightlight… damn you, WMPT! I shake my fist at you!!! ;))

The verdict is in. My donated Winegard "Ghost Killer" antenna is providing lots of happiness to a good friend with limited funds. All the DC stations still come in great(except WMDO-47), but to my surprise 11 & 13 are coming in also!!(11 is marginal though).Signal levels are up considerably here tonight. Might be a little early to pop the champagne on that.

Analog 14 is gone.

Nice countdown they did at the end.

And t-th-thas-th-that's all, folks.

Hallelujah!!!

Signal levels are up considerably here tonight. Might be a little early to pop the champagne on that.True,

There is some tropo tonight. WRLH Richmond is walking all over WHAG-DT25 Hagerstown.

What kind of interference? You are well within the coverage area of these stations. A good combo antenna that isn't overamplifed should have no problem. WJZ's weak 9kw signal is reaching a tiny antenna down in a hole over 50 miles away just fine. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d7d02d523de
Your guess is as good as mine. Before today, I had a perfect analog picture on channel 7, 9, 11, and 13 with no multipath or noticeable interference.

I am getting Richmond now. WRLH-DT and WTVR-DT are coming in strong.

BTW to update, my MIL in Annapolis is now only really missing WUSA and WWJZ. Not really sure how to handle the situation as other UHF and VHF channels are doing fine. This seems to mirror others here on the forums though. Any idea if these two are transmitting lower power?
WUSA-DT 9 is at 12.6 kW. WJZ-DT 13 is operating on a temporary basis from their omnidirectional formerly analog antenna at 9.8 kW until a new directional antenna is installed by August 1. Then WJZ-DT will go to 28.8 kW, but with reduced power to the west (in my direction :(). For a complete summary of what all the full power stations in DC, Baltimore, Hagerstown are doing, go back to my post #9122 of June 9 at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16616772#post16616772.

Don't when they switched today, but WWPX-DT Ion 60.1 is now operating at 720p.

So far no luck here with getting a lock on WBAL-DT 11 and WJZ-DT 13. I am going to be spending some time this weekend trying out alternate antenna locations, but it does not look good at my location for getting those two.

Your guess is as good as mine. Before today, I had a perfect analog picture on channel 7, 9, 11, and 13 with no multipath or noticeable interference. There's no tropo here yet tonight, so I know it's not atmospherics.

EDIT: Maybe it's the swamp gas.That's very strange. Briefly describe your antenna/amplifier system. WMPT analog looks pretty potent in your area. Could be an issue.

Also, not in accordance with FCC regs, as I understand it.

Check ATSC A/65C, Annex B, Section 1, Number 5:

"If a broadcaster owns or controls broadcast licenses for two or more different RF channels having overlapping service areas, he may use a common major_channel_number for all services on all channels. He may choose the major_channel_number as determined above for any one of the RF channels. The values in the minor_channel_number fields must be partitioned to insure that there is no duplication of the two-part channel number in the DTV service area, including the overlapping DTV service areas of other broadcasters using that same major_channel_number."

- Trip

Well I have no problem with WJLA on ch 7 comes in very good, nothing for WUSA, WBAL or WJZ

DC ABC and DC CBS come in perfectly for me.

Although Tivo screwed up and hasn't done any updated on their side yet - no surprises there...

It says WJZ 13-1 has a signal on it, but nothing coming in yet. I'll check again tomorrow.

That's very strange. Briefly describe your antenna/amplifier system. WMPT analog looks pretty potent in your area. Could be an issue.

WMPT only gives me problems if I point my antenna directly at the transmitter. I think WMPT may have reduced their power quite a bit since starting their night light service. In the past, WMPT caused me problems with analog channel 24. Surprisingly, MHZ digital on 24 is one of my best channels now. ION on 34 is awesome now too. I could only sporadically receive ION on 43 before.

I have a fringe channel master VHF/UHF and a CM 7777. I have an HDHR so I can run TSReader. Not seeing any overloading on my system at this time checking out the HDHR config GUI signal strength meter.

Check ATSC A/65C, Annex B, Section 1, Number 5:
Trip, thanks for the info. So what MHz is doing with WNVC-DT and WNVT-DT PSIP mapping is kosher. Does make for some confusion for someone not aware of the 2 physical RF stations when 30.1 to 30.5 is solid, but 30.6 to 30.10 are breaking up which I was seeing a little while ago experimenting with the antenna location.

I am now getting WWPB-DT MPT 31 and WMPT-DT 22 along with WFPT-DT 62. Maybe they increased power for WWPB-DT at midnight?

Beginning to wonder if adjacent channel interference from WWPX-DT 60 signal on VHF 12 is a factor in not locking on WBAL-DT 11 or WJZ-DT 13? Something to consider and experiment with blocking WWPX-DT.

WMPT only gives me problems if I point my antenna directly at the transmitter. I think WMPT may have reduced their power quite a bit since starting their night light service. In the past, WMPT caused me problems with analog channel 24. Surprisingly, MHZ digital on 24 is one of my best channels now. ION on 34 is awesome now too. I could only sporadically receive ION on 43 before.

I have a fringe channel master VHF/UHF and a CM 7777. I have an HDHR so I can run TSReader. Not seeing any overloading on my system at this time checking out the HDHR config GUI signal strength meter.With a good outdoor VHF antenna, you should have a range of about 65 miles over average terrian without an amp.(Except LP stations) AVS member Rick 0725 usually recommends only ampifying UHF. Amplifying VHF can cause too many problems with DTV. My antenna is only 7 feet off the roof, and it gets channel 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, & 13 unamplified. Even channel 12 from Richmond (6kw) comes in somewhat, with a much stronger channel 12 in Martinsburg, WV coming in from the side.

IMO, the 7777 is way too much pre-amp for your situation. A low gain/high input amp would be a better choice.

With a good outdoor VHF antenna, you should have a range of about 65 miles over average terrian without an amp.(Except LP stations) AVS member Rick 0725 usually recommends only ampifying UHF. Amplifying VHF can cause too many problems with DTV. My antenna is only 7 feet off the roof, and it gets channel 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, & 13 unamplified. Even channel 12 from Richmond (6kw) comes in somewhat, with a much stronger channel 12 in Martinsburg, WV coming in from the side.

IMO, the 7777 is way too much pre-amp for your situation. A low gain/high input amp would be a better choice.

I have a long cable run and a few splits. I've already tried it today without the amp and it was worse.

I've tried other amps. This one gives the best performance in my area. I'm quite a ways out from both cities.

I have a real long cable run. I've already tried it today without the amp. It's much worse.Yes, but the crucial point of overload is the front end of the outside mounted pre-amp. Once the front end is overloaded, the damage is done, no matter how long the cable run. DTV requires conservative amplification, especially if you have any line of sight stations. High gain amps are geared toward 1 & 2 edge areas. If your signals are stronger than this, I wouldn't recommend more than a 17-19db gain pre-amp.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d7d02d523de

Update from West Alexandria (indoor VHF/UHF amplified antenna, top floor of small apartment building):

Tried again to get 7 and 9. Was able to get 9 by repositioning the antenna and able to get 7 by switching out the amplified antenna for a simple whip antenna. Unfortunately, there's no scenario where I get both at the same time.

I figure I'll sacrifice 7. I think the multipath issues with high VHF are just too great here. I was never able to get the analog VHFs clearly either.

I can get 2 from Baltimore (still UHF, phew!) with a perfect signal, so I'll just use them for ABC. This is also just my bedroom TV- I have FIOS in the living room, so it's not really a huge issue. My final channel count with antenna in optimal position is: 2, 4, 5, 9, 14, 20, 22, 26, 30 (.1-.5 only), 32, 50, 54, 66.

DC ABC and DC CBS come in perfectly for me.

Although Tivo screwed up and hasn't done any updated on their side yet - no surprises there...

It says WJZ 13-1 has a signal on it, but nothing coming in yet. I'll check again tomorrow.TiVo updated their guide information early Friday afternoon with the correct frequencies for the DC/VA stations. I forced a connection under Phone & Network at 4pm yesterday, and 30 minutes later, all DC/VA stations tuned fine. A few of the Baltmore stations did not tune, for whatever reason.

If your daily connection to download guide data wasn't scheduled until 2am this morning, and you did not force a connection earlier, then obviously you would not have been able to tune the stations with guide data.

It is a 622. I have never had any issues before. I have have rescanned, deleted 7 and 9 and rescanned, and deleted all and rescanned and finally i did a check switch and reboot on the box.Thanks for the tip. I predict your 722 will have no issues.

As for my 612, this box is just plain weird. I had the opposite problem as you and the guy with the 622; when scanning with a 10dB distribution amp in the attic, channels 7 and 9 were the only channels I got! With or without the amp, the SS of these stations was coming in at around 80-90. Possibly I could add the UHF channels manually using your technique, though that's a PITA since I have two of these receivers. I would really like to use that distribution amp, since the total number of stations I can tune on most of my tuners is greatest with it in.

With the distribution amp, most of the DC stations were pegged at 100 on my SS meters, and I could at least scan in the Baltimore stations and MHz 6-10 (RF30). I live in Annandale. Without the amp, I don't see Baltimore and I don't see Goldvein (RF30).

My location is ideal for a dipole, because RF30 is in the opposite direction as the DC stations, with RF24 (MHz 1-5 only 2 miles away) parked near a null at 90 deg. ;) The problem is I chose a Winegard batwing antenna that is only a dipole at VHF frequencies; plus MHz 6-10 is coming off the back and passing through my roof twice. Obviously I should try swinging it around to point at Goldvein, and put the amp back in to see what happens.

What mystifies me is that I had no problem scanning in these channels before the transition with any of my Dish receivers. A lot of channels disappeared, and WNVC appeared but (as planned) near a null of the antenna. WNVC is not overloading that amp. I think something else came on strong that I can't see with ATSC tuners, that is smashing my 612 tuner. FM perhaps?

TiVo updated their guide information early Friday afternoon with the correct frequencies for the DC/VA stations. I forced a connection under Phone & Network at 4pm yesterday, and 30 minutes later, all DC/VA stations tuned fine. A few of the Baltmore stations did not tune, for whatever reason.

If your daily connection to download guide data wasn't scheduled until 2am this morning, and you did not force a connection earlier, then obviously you would not have been able to tune the stations with guide data.

It wasn't working as of 2:30pm at least, which was when I was last home and forced a connection. I rebooted for good measure, and nada.

I won't be home again until tonight though.

To my surprise, I can receive both WJZ-13 and WBAL-11 out of Baltimore. Perhaps propagation is unusually good, but they came in last night and this morning. I added an Antennacraft Y10-7-13 below my XG-91 and CM 7777 in preparation for the stations' move to upper VHF. I have these antennas about 45' above ground, and the terrain here puts me about 100' above sea level. Unfortunately, there are nearby 150' hills in line to every station - the reason for putting the antennas up so high.

What relief after years of doubt! 7 (and 9) is as strong as ever on my attic 4228. I wonder if their antenna transmission patterns are now permanent or whether the stations could change things (beamtilt etc., have no clue what's involved) and therefore I could wake up tomorrow with no nada zilch reception of these vhf's????

Very confused, I'm in Ashburn, VA.

Prior to the cut-off I was receiving ALL local channels perfectly. Now not getting ABC (WJLA) but I can get ABC from Baltimore - WTF!

I have an 'Antennas Direct DB2 Multi Directional HDTV Antenna' in the loft and no obstructions.

Do I need a different Antenna or is WJLA gone for good?

Very confused, I'm in Ashburn, VA.

Prior to the cut-off I was receiving ALL local channels perfectly. Now not getting ABC (WJLA) but I can get ABC from Baltimore - WTF!

I have an 'Antennas Direct DB2 Multi Directional HDTV Antenna' in the loft and no obstructions.

Do I need a different Antenna or is WJLA gone for good?

What do you use for local OTA reception? If Tivo, you need to force a connection. If something else, you need to do a rescan for ATSC channels.

I have an 'Antennas Direct DB2 Multi Directional HDTV Antenna' in the loft and no obstructions.

Do I need a different Antenna or is WJLA gone for good?Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

If you want a one antenna solution http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7694P

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

If you want a one antenna solution http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7694P

Thanks as I understand it both WJLA and WUSA were broadcasting all thru the pre-transition period on UHF given their viewers false information that they were all set for the transition......then on the transition day they switched to VHF......WTF is up with that :(

I do also have FiOS and get all channels on that but I only got the HD FiOS box in Family room. I only have a SD FiOS box in bedroom so was getting HD via antenna.

Thanks for the tips on getting channels back but WJLA and WUSA re complete an utter !@#$%!

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

If you want a one antenna solution http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7694P

I have this one:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC4228

And it works perfectly out by me in Damascus, which I think is just about the same distance? I'm very high up with no obstructions, but still...

The good : Still have all the DC and Baltimore major channels on my TV with an 20 year old VHF/UHF attic mounted antenna. Gained the MHz channels (30.1-30.5) and Ion channels (66.1-66.4) which I could previously not pick up.

The bad: Lost DC channel 7 and 9 on my kitchen TV with a Silver Sensor. Gained the Ion Channels, but not the MHz.

The solution: Connect up the kitchen TV to the attic antenna when it is a little cooler.

All this is from Cockeysville MD in Northern Baltimore County. Pretty happy with the transition.

Whoopsie. Spoke too soon. Woke up this morning and have lost 7 and 9. Must have been the atmospherics last night. Time to troubleshoot. Stupid VHF.

Whoopsie. Spoke too soon. Woke up this morning and have lost 7 and 9. Must have been the atmospherics last night. Time to troubleshoot. Stupid VHF.

Did you rescan?

Thanks as I understand it both WJLA and WUSA were broadcasting all thru the pre-transition period on UHF given their viewers false information that they were all set for the transition......then on the transition day they switched to VHF......WTF is up with that
WUSA-DT 9 was running occasional scrolling messages for several months on their 9.1 broadcast that they were moving to VHF. Didn't say VHF 9 as I recall, but WUSA did provide a warning. I checked WJLA and WUSA websites yesterday and they both actually had info on their website about the channel move:
http://www.wusa9.com/life/programming/dtv/default.aspx

But as we have been discussing for a long time in the DTV Final allotment thread, many stations across the US which were moving to their analog VHF channel from their pre-trans UHF channel were not making any effort at all to get that across to their viewers. Just do a rescan and you will be fine assurances. The move of 290 digital stations in total, some in February and around 190 of them yesterday, from UHF to VHF (most flash cutting to their analog channel) may be the most bungled aspect in the public education part of the transition and in the power levels alloted to the digital upper VHF stations.

Like others, prior to the DTV switch, I was receiving all the local stations perfectly, for almost 2 years. But since the switch, that's not the case.

I have 3 HDTVs, and 1 TiVoHD, and 1 TiVo Series 3, all devices are hooked up to the same Winegard HD 9075P, mounted rooftop outside. I'm located in Towson, about 6 miles from TV Hill in Baltimore. The antenna is pointed just about directly at TV Hill, but doesn't quite clear the roof lines in the neighborhood. I forced a connection on the TiVo's earlier, and have rescanned on all devices multiple times since the switch.

All devices seem to get different results. The one common thing is that I can't get WBAL 11-1 on any device. One TiVo shows a signal, but it is very weak, about 30%. The other flaky thing I've noticed is that one TiVo has picked up 2 seperate 13-1 channels, one being WJZDT and the other WJZ-TV. I get a picture from WJZ-TV, but not WJZDT, even though one TiVo shows a signal strength of around 70% for WJZDT.

One more tidbit, I have a buddy with a similar antenna mounted in his attic but lives a little further away. He was successful in getting back all his Baltimore channels.

My apologies for the long-windedness, just trying to provided all available details.

Does anyone know what gives? :confused:

For the most part, the stations I got before the switch have been unaffected. I now get the MHz channel 30, which is nice, and also the Ion channel 66, but unfortunately, my reception for Channel 9 is really spotty. Repositioning the antenna helps, but then it wrecks my other channels...

Thanks as I understand it both WJLA and WUSA were broadcasting all thru the pre-transition period on UHF given their viewers false information that they were all set for the transition......then on the transition day they switched to VHF......WTF is up with that :(

Not quite, both channels have been saying we're moving, you need a VHF/UF antenna and also rescan.

p.s. you're not the only Brit in Va on the boards :)

Like others, prior to the DTV switch, I was receiving all the local stations perfectly, for almost 2 years. But since the switch, that's not the case.
. . . . all devices are hooked up to the same Winegard HD 9075P, mounted rooftop outside.
Does anyone know what gives? :confused:Unfortunately, the 9075 is a poor VHF antenna. If you were 2-3 miles closer, it would probably work. You will need to augment the antenna with a VHF-HI antenna, or replace the 9075 with a combo antenna if WAF is a concern.

DC ABC and DC CBS come in perfectly for me.

Although Tivo screwed up and hasn't done any updated on their side yet - no surprises there...

It says WJZ 13-1 has a signal on it, but nothing coming in yet. I'll check again tomorrow.

TiVo was fine for me. You had to have it connect to the TiVo service first. I think after 5PM yesterday(I had a box connect around 4PM that didn't have teh updated info and one that did around 5PM that was fine). Then after connecting do another channel scan and everything comes up fine.

Not quite, both channels have been saying we're moving, you need a VHF/UF antenna and also rescan.

p.s. you're not the only Brit in Va on the boards :)

Well Hello fellow Brit in Va :D

I understand that they have been saying they were moving but not once when they were doing their short cut off did I have an issue - so maybe I was foolish for thinking everything was OK but seems strange that they were broadcasting on UHF prior to the switch. Even on the first post in this thread it appeared they were going to be broadcasting in UHF



Listing of Digtial stations in the Washington / Baltimore Region:
002-01 52 ABC (http://abc.abcnews.go.com) WMAR-DT (http://www.insidebaltimore.com/) HDTV DD5.1
002-02 52 ABC WMAR-DT (http://www.insidebaltimore.com/) SD
002-03 52 ABC WMAR-DT (http://www.insidebaltimore.com/) Weather Net (http://www.abc2news.com/weather)
004-01 48 NBC (http://www.nbc.com) WRC-DT (http://www.nbc4.com) HDTV DD5.1
004-02 48 NBC WRC-SD (http://www.nbc4.com) Weather Plus (http://www.nbc4.com/weather/index.html)
004-03 48 NBC WRC-SD (http://www.nbc4.com) Universal Sports (http://www.universalsports.com)
005-01 36 FOX (http://www.fox.com) WTTG-DT (http://www.fox5dc.com) HDTV DD5.1 Has local news in HDTV
007-01 39 ABC (http://abc.abcnews.go.com) WJLA-DT (http://www.wjla.com) HDTV DD5.1 Has local news in HDTV
007-02 39 ABC WJLA-DT (http://www.wjla.com) Weather Now (http://www.wjla.com/weather)
007-03 39 ABC WJLA-DT (http://www.wjla.com) RetroTV (http://www.rtnville.com)
009-01 34 CBS (http://www.cbs.com) WUSA-DT (http://www.wusatv9.com) HDTV DD5.1 Has local news in HDTV
009-02 34 CBS WUSA-DT (http://www.wusatv9.com) Doppler (http://www.wusatv9.com/weather/doppler/barrons/max.jpg)
011-01 59 NBC (http://www.nbc.com) WBAL-DT (http://www.thewbalchannel.com) HDTV Has local news in HDTV
011-02 59 NBC WBAL-SD (http://www.thewbalchannel.com/wbal) Weather Plus (http://www.thewbalchannel.com/weather/index.html) Live - Stream (http://mfile.akamai.com/12903/live/reflector:38158.asx)
013-01 38 CBS (http://www.cbs.com) WJZ-DT (http://www.wjz.com) HDTV DD5.1
014-01 15 UNI (http://www.univision.com) WFDC-DT (http://www.wfdc.entravision.com) SD
020-01 35 MyNet (http://www.mynetworktv.com) WDCA-DT (http://www.upn20wdca.com) HDTV
022-01 42 PBS (http://www.pbs.org) WMPT-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT-HD DD5.1
022-02 42 PBS WMPT-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT 2
022-03 42 PBS WMPT-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT V-me
024-01 41 MyNet (http://www.mynetworktv.com) WUTB-DT (http://www.upn24.com) HD
026-01 27 PBS (http://www.pbs.org) WETA-DT (http://www.weta.org/tv/dtv) HDTV/SD DD5.1
026-02 27 PBS WETA-DT (http://www.weta.org/tv/dtv) Create
026-03 27 PBS WETA-DT (http://www.weta.org/tv/dtv) Family (http://www.pbskids.org)
026-04 27 PBS WETA-DT (http://www.weta.org/tv/dtv) World (http://www.pbs.org/pbsyou)
030-01 30 MHz (http://www.mhznetworks.org) WNVT-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz1 WorldView
030-02 30 MHz WNVC-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz2 Russian
030-03 30 MHz WNVT-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz3 French
030-04 30 MHz WNVT-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz4 Nigerian
030-05 30 MHz WNVT-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz5 Russian
032-01 33 PBS WHUT-DT (http://www.howard.edu/tv) SD
045-01 46 FOX (http://www.fox.com) WBFF-DT (http://www.foxbaltimore.com) HDTV DD5.1 Has local news in HDTV
045-02 46 ThisTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV) WBFF-DT (http://www.foxbaltimore.com) SD
050-01 51 CW (http://www.thewb.com) WDCW-DT (http://wb50.trb.com) HDTV DD5.1
054-01 40 CW WNUV-DT (http://www.foxbaltimore.com) HDTV DD5.1
057-01 57 MHz (http://www.mhznetworks.org) WNVC-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz1 WorldView - off the air until Feb 2009
057-02 57 MHz WNVT-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz6 Japanese - off the air until Feb 2009
057-03 57 MHz WNVC-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz7 Dutch - off the air until Feb 2009
057-04 57 MHz WNVC-DT (http://www.mhznetworks.org) MHz8 Taiwanese - off the air until Feb 2009
062-01 28 PBS (http://www.pbs.org) WFPT-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT-HD DD5.1
062-02 28 PBS WFPT-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT 2
062-03 28 PBS WFPT-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT V-me
066-01 43 ionline (http://www.ionline.tv) WPXW-DT (http://www.paxwashington.tv) ion
066-02 43 ionline WPXW-DT (http://www.paxwashington.tv) qubo
066-03 43 ionline WPXW-DT (http://www.paxwashington.tv) ionW
066-04 43 ionline WPXW-DT (http://www.paxwashington.tv) Worship
067-01 29 PBS (http://www.pbs.org) WMPB-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT-HD DD5.1
067-02 29 PBS WMPB-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT 2
067-03 29 PBS WMPB-DT (http://www.mpt.org/about/digital.cfm) MPT V-me

Orange indicates UHF Digital Channel assignments
DD5.1 indicates Dolby Digital 5.1 capable stations



I've ordered the Antenna & Separator suggested by Digital Rules so hopefully in a week will be behind me.

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

If you want a one antenna solution http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7694P

Thanks for the link to the UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner. I've been using a couple of combined Square Shooters for 5 years with no problems. I figured I would have problems with VHF since the Square Shooter is really designed for UHF.
I'm going to try the UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner with an amplified VHF table top antenna first to see if I can get 7 and 9 with it. OTA is a backup for me now but I would like to get those two channels without having to replace one of my Square shooters. Especially since my options are limited since I'm in a condo. Not sure what else is out there for VHF that is similar to looks to the Square shooter.
Does anyone know of an antenna similar to the Square shooter that picks up VHF reliably?

Unfortunately, the 9075 is a poor VHF antenna. If you were 2-3 miles closer, it would probably work. You will need to augment the antenna with a VHF-HI antenna, or replace the 9075 with a combo antenna if WAF is a concern.

Thanks for the response. I was confused about VHF/UHF and analog/digital. I assumed all digital was broadcasted on UHF, apparently that's not the case. :o I guess you can broadcast an analog signal and a digital signal on the same frequency.

Looks I'm in the market for another antenna! :rolleyes:

Whoopsie. Spoke too soon. Woke up this morning and have lost 7 and 9. Must have been the atmospherics last night. Time to troubleshoot. Stupid VHF.

Yep. Rescanned on both tuners attached to the 20 year old attic antenna. No 7 and 9. I am about 40 miles away from the tower, so I figure I will re-aim, and if I get no joy, upgrade my antenna to a new UHF/VHF combo. Not a huge issue right now, but I like having both DC and Baltimore stations for when the NCAA and NFL games are different in the two markets.

Then after connecting do another channel scan and everything comes up fine.Note a channel scan is unnecessary with a TiVo. Channel scans have no affect whatsoever on the Tribune-mapped stations. Channel scans only clutter your Channel List with more stations to uncheck. ;)

You just have to wait 15-30 minutes after the connection completes for the guide information to index and update. It doesn't happen instantly. If you reboot your TiVo following the connection, it may reset that 15-30 indexing period.

Note a channel scan is necessary. Channel scans have no affect the Tribune-mapped stations.

You just have to wait 15-30 minutes after the connection completes for the guide information to index update. It doesn't happen instantly. If you reboot your TiVo following a connection, it may reset that 15-30 indexing period.

I know on the first one I tested it did not come up correctly until I did a rescan. This was after it loaded the data and got to 100%. It didn't show up properly until I deleted the old channels and rescanned. So I did it that way for the other TiVos as well.

TiVo updated their guide information early Friday afternoon with the correct frequencies for the DC/VA stations. ... A few of the Baltmore stations did not tune, for whatever reason.They still have WJZ as being on physical channel 38 rather than 13, even though they also (correctly) now map WMAR to 38. And there's something wrong with the MHz listings, since they show all the subchannels as being on physical channel 30, but I'm not sure what the correct numbers are there. You can see what TiVo thinks the physical channels are in the signal strength meter.

Edit: Also, all the analogs are still listed. Also, there's no listing for WHAG-DT, though WHAG is still there.

Reading this thread made me glad, at first I thought I might be losing my mind with this madness!! I have a TV setup to receive OTA for a bedroom and a a Philips antenna (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ES8EG0/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=304485901&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000E1TO6Q&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1Y02HGMY20G0Q30BDPS0) I got cheap and have used no problems for 2 years in this setup. I'm in the Mount Vernon area in NOVA, under 16 miles from all the network broadcast towers. Before the transition I received WRC-DT (4.1), WTTG-DT (5.1), WJLA-DT (7.1), and WUSA-DT (9.1) fine. Now I can't get 7.1 and 9.1 to save my life. I realize they have switched over to VHF but I should get some type of signal I would think. I know its not the best set up I have but with this antenna before the transition I was able to view 7 and 9 analog channels with a minimal amount of snow. I would think I should get something, maybe the picture would break up etc. The TV's autoscan doesn't pick 7.1 or 9.1 up and I get no signal white noise when tuned to channels 7 or 9 (it does slow down at RF 7 and RF 9). No amount of fiddling with the spindle ears on the antenna improves this. Very frustrating indeed as in this area VHF is always dodgier than UHF. You guys think this situation will last? It seems it has to change. Thanks for listening to me vent reading these posts certainly helped my sanity a bit. :D
Scott

Anyone with a Samsung TV having troubles with 50.1? I have a Dynex 42" plasma (Samsung knockoff with the 54.1 audio/video studder issue), and when I tune to 50.1 it locks up the TV. I need to unplug it to get it to work properly again. Was working fine yesterday (after the switch). So I wonder if they did something today? Was trying to watch Gladiator, but no luck.

Anyone with a Samsung TV having troubles with 50.1?No problem on my Samsung LNA55037. No issues on any channels except WMPB-DT 67. Does it come in up in Columbia. I used to get it just fine.

My neighbor and I both lost 9 and 7. After much fiddling, I managed to get them back, but I am afraid what I did was not a good idea. I unplugged my Channel Master UHF antenna from its amp. Then plugged in a table top UHF/VHF antenna into that amp and then plugged the table top's amp into the wall. After this, I finally got 9 and 7. But considering I live just outside DC, this is ridicules.

...
Now I can't get 7.1 and 9.1 to save my life. I realize they have switched over to VHF but I should get some type of signal I would think. I know its not the best set up I have but with this antenna before the transition I was able to view 7 and 9 analog channels with a minimal amount of snow. I would think I should get something, maybe the picture would break up etc. The TV's autoscan doesn't pick 7.1 or 9.1 up and I get no signal white noise when tuned to channels 7 or 9 (it does slow down at RF 7 and RF 9). No amount of fiddling with the spindle ears on the antenna improves this.
Extend the rabbit ears (the "spindle ears") to a total length of around 33" to optimize it for VHF 7 and open them to very wide V. Try orienting the rabbit ears perpendicular to the direction to the broadcast towers in NW DC, but try other orientations if the first does not work. You should also try to move the antenna to different locations in the room, the higher up the better. Good luck, you will need it.

I was just listening to WTOP radio in the car and they are getting a flood of complaints from people who can no longer get channels 7 & 9. Played short excerpts of several of the complaints. Someone from the FCC was to be on after the commercial break, but I had to miss that. The loss of the reception of the upper VHF channels is now news. There is no short term fix unless the FCC bites the bullet and issues a series of emergency STAs allowing upper VHF stations to increase power. Many of the upper VHF stations are using only part of their former analog transmitter rack and could likely increase power rather quickly. The FCC may need to let WUSA-DT 9, WBAL-DT 11, WJZ-DT 13 go to 20 to 30 kW. WJLA-DT should be at 30 kW which is the statutory maximum for Zone 1.

I was able to get WJZ-DT 13 at 43 miles with dropouts later last night. Have some serious antenna testing and re-arranging to do to get WNVT-DT 30, WHAG-DT 25 off to the S and NW while getting the DC & Baltimore RF UHF stations along with a move of the upper VHF antenna to try to get WBAL-DT and WJZ-DT.

It took me hours of tweaking to get 7 and 9 to return on some of my tuners. I am in Davidsonville, MD in a very low spot. I use a medium gain antenna with a UHf biased amp and a distribution amp. My bedroom set will not lock 9.1 but all 6 others are fine.

Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post
Anyone else getting stronger signals for WMPT-DT 22 on UHF 42?
Yes, I observed the same thing on Mon and Tues evenings, but now it's gone. It could be tropo, but I doubt it, since I've *never* been able to pick up DT42 before where I am in west Alexandria. I suspect they are experimenting with the higher power Tx, which will hopefully become the default operation on Friday.

Well, it seems that whatever WMPT-DT was experimenting with last Mon/Tues has not been implemented permanently. I still get absolutely zero signal on RF42 :( Hopefully, the higher power operation will commence soon!!

Followup on the WTOP radio interview with Bill Lake, the DTV coordinator for the FCC. The audio clip is currently available at http://www.wtop.com/?sid=595567&nid=92. Please do not slam your head into the table or the wall while listening to his explanation of it is due to converter boxes not clearing out the channel assignment. I wonder if he even knows the difference between VHF and UHF. :eek:

BTW, as far as I can tell, WMPT-DT 22 is operating at increased power on UHF 42. I sent an email to the Director of Engineering at MPT asking about WMPT-DT WWPB-DT, but have not heard back yet.

Thanks for the response. I was confused about VHF/UHF and analog/digital. I assumed all digital was broadcasted on UHF, apparently that's not the case. :o I guess you can broadcast an analog signal and a digital signal on the same frequency.

Looks I'm in the market for another antenna! :rolleyes:Since you already have such a good UHF antenna, you can just combine it with an inexpensive VHF-HI antenna using a UVSJ. They should be separated about 3.5 feet, with the 9075 on top.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

Difficulties with WDCW (50-1) after the switch.
I have 6 HDTV tuners and/or TVs.
No problem with DirecTV HR20 and H20 STBs
No problem with Radio Shack Accurian STB
No problem with a 32" Vizio (VO32L)
I have two 22" Vizio (VO22L) sets - both have same problem(s) with 50-1.
Initially I was getting some pixelation late last night (after midnight).
I've rescanned channels a couple of times.
This morning, changing to 50-1 caused both sets to power down.
When unit was powered on through remote and was sitting on 50-1, it would power down.
Was pretty reproducible until I completely locked up set - had to power cycle.
Able to get around by powering on and then quickly moving off the channel.

I'm now back to pixelation, but at least the units are not powering down or freezing up.
It would appear something is in 50-1 stream that the VO22L doesn't like. The fact that things are changing would suggest the station is in a tweaking mode.

Thoughts are similar experiences are welcomed.

They still have WJZ as being on physical channel 38 rather than 13, even though they also (correctly) now map WMAR to 38. And there's something wrong with the MHz listings, since they show all the subchannels as being on physical channel 30, but I'm not sure what the correct numbers are there. You can see what TiVo thinks the physical channels are in the signal strength meter.

Edit: Also, all the analogs are still listed. Also, there's no listing for WHAG-DT, though WHAG is still there.It seems that the channel assignments for Microsoft's Window Media Player are also not completely correct (eg WJZ). Some things have changed from before the transition, but other things did not update with the new program guide I got today.

In Chantilly, lost 7, 9 and 50 after the switch.

Followup on the WTOP radio interview with Bill Lake, the DTV coordinator for the FCC. The audio clip is currently available at http://www.wtop.com/?sid=595567&nid=92. Please do not slam your head into the table or the wall while listening to his explanation of it is due to converter boxes not clearing out the channel assignment. I wonder if he even knows the difference between VHF and UHF.

That Bill Lake is absolutely clueless. I can not find a email address for him. You would think being the DTV Coordinator for the FCC he would have a public address. If anyone finds it, please post it here.

[QUOTE=afiggatt;16643718]Followup on the WTOP radio interview with Bill Lake, the DTV coordinator for the FCC. The audio clip is currently available at http://www.wtop.com/?sid=595567&nid=92. Please do not slam your head into the table or the wall while listening to his explanation of it is due to converter boxes not clearing out the channel assignment. I wonder if he even knows the difference between VHF and UHF. <edit> QUOTE]

That little tidbit he mentions at the very end, about needing an antenna that receives both UHF and VHF, comes a couple of years too late for a lot of people...

BTW, it's probably an FCC requirement that made ch 7 run the crawl about needing to re-scan the channels during "Pushing Daisies". If I can see the channel, didn't I already do the re-scan?

I'm sure it makes sense to someone...

Note a channel scan is unnecessary with a TiVo. Channel scans have no affect whatsoever on the Tribune-mapped stations. Channel scans only clutter your Channel List with more stations to uncheck. ;)

You just have to wait 15-30 minutes after the connection completes for the guide information to index and update. It doesn't happen instantly. If you reboot your TiVo following the connection, it may reset that 15-30 indexing period.

what about a DirectDVR (their own brand, not the TiVo). Is there anything I can do to fix or just wait?

This morning, changing to 50-1 caused both sets to power down.
It would appear something is in 50-1 stream that the VO22L doesn't like.
Sounds very similar to my experiences with my Dynex (Samsung rebranded) TV. They must be mucking with the signal over at 50.1.

BTW, does anyone know if VHF is more sensitive to thunderstorms? I have noticed tonight with the storms passing thru that 7 and 9 were pixelating a bit, even though the signal meter was strong (mid 80's and steady on my Tivo HD). Strange. I was messing with the rotor to see if I could get a better signal, but I could not. Just wondering if lightning hurts VHF reception more than UHF?

The best way to do a rescan is to completely disconnect your antenna from the input to the ATSC tuner and then totally rescan with zero signal. This way every existing channel present is totally erased and you will have a totally clean tuner in which to reprogram. Then reconnect your antenna and then rescan. This avoids any possibility that the ATSC tuner might deal with more than one channel 7 or 9 to map.

I know the best way for the FCC to deal with the VHF problem. They should shut down VHF low 2 through 6 and VHF high 7 through 13 for all digital broadcasting. Give back to the broadcasters UHF 52 through 63. I know; there's zero chance of that happening.

This moron from the FCC is being obtuse or disingenuous, or both. Most people had already removed their old and large UHF/VHF antennas from their roof. The popular understanding whether correct or not was that DTV would use the UHF channels pre-transition as well as post transition. Most people don't know the difference between VHF and UHF or their respective frequencies. The FCC did a poor job of fully explaining the post transition phase and the repositioning back to VHF. Congress should have never allowed UHF 52 through 69 to be sold. The FCC and the Congress screwed the public just to make some money on the spectrum.

My best channels are all VHF channels 7 from DC 50+ miles with Braddock and South Mountain to go over, Also I do get 60 (RF12) Martinsburg 30 miles, 27 (RF10) and 21 when they were on (RF4) before they moved back to 21 from Harrisburg 50 miles.

I don't think WJAL 68 Digital Channel 39 increased their power as advertised. My signal bar did not move at all since Friday and I still cannot get the channel with the tower being 20 miles away. I also have spotty reception with the PBS station out of Front Royal, VA. So, I am not so sure they increased there power either. WHAG 25 out of Hagerstown comes in great. ION 60 out of Martinsburg, WV and PBS 31 out of Hagerstown still come in great.

Basically with my CM 4221 pointed at magnetic 240 degrees I don't have any change in channels than what I had before Fridays transition. I even got up on the roof and pointed it towards Baltimore and DC and got nothing. The only exception is for a channel 32 with a low signal that will not tune in. Does anyone know what this channel 32 would be? The only guess I have is maybe the CBS station from Harrisburg, PA picking up from the rear of my antenna. If anyone knows for sure please let me know. Thanks.

On another note I went over to my father-in-law who was just discharge from prostate surgery to hook up his converter box. He rents a small guest shack on a farm. Their is a small old school antenna on the roof of the shack which is surrounded by trees and another building. The antenna is pointed towards Hagerstown. Surprisingly he got channel 2 and 13 out of Baltimore along with WHAG 25 out of Hagerstown. The weird thing is that he does not get PBS 31 out of Hagerstown with the uber strong signal near the WHAG tower. He also does not get ION 60 out of Martinsburg nor WJAL 68. This whole process has been weird.

I don't think WJAL 68 Digital Channel 39 increased their power as advertised. My signal bar did not move at all since Friday and I still cannot get the channel with the tower being 20 miles away. I also have spotty reception with the PBS station out of Front Royal, VA. So, I am not so sure they increased there power either. WHAG 25 out of Hagerstown comes in great. ION 60 out of Martinsburg, WV and PBS 31 out of Hagerstown still come in great.

Basically with my CM 4221 pointed at magnetic 240 degrees I don't have any change in channels than what I had before Fridays transition. I even got up on the roof and pointed it towards Baltimore and DC and got nothing. The only exception is for a channel 32 with a low signal that will not tune in. Does anyone know what this channel 32 would be? The only guess I have is maybe the CBS station from Harrisburg, PA picking up from the rear of my antenna. If anyone knows for sure please let me know. Thanks.

On another note I went over to my father-in-law who was just discharge from prostate surgery to hook up his converter box. He rents a small guest shack on a farm. Their is a small old school antenna on the roof of the shack which is surrounded by trees and another building. The antenna is pointed towards Hagerstown. Surprisingly he got channel 2 and 13 out of Baltimore along with WHAG 25 out of Hagerstown. The weird thing is that he does not get PBS 31 out of Hagerstown with the uber strong signal near the WHAG tower. He also does not get ION 60 out of Martinsburg nor WJAL 68. This whole process has been weird.

I get WJAL 68, but the meter didn't change on mine either.

I received this e-mail from WVPY when I asked them them about a power increase "Your email to Marilyn was forwarded to me for review and response. First let me say thanks for watching and for writing to WVPT – Virginia’s Public Television. Secondly, yes, WVPT/Y DTV 21/42 is currently operating at full licensed power covering your location. Lastly, the good news is yes, we have applied for… and received permission from the FCC to double the power. Our plans are to increase the transmitter power sometime late this fall or at the latest next spring as our funding permits. Thanks again for watching and please let me know if you have further questions about DTV that we can answer.Tony"

Also I lost WVPY when WHP moved back to 21, I was watching WVPY friday night and at 12:02 WVPY disappeared just like that.

If 32 is RF32 (not the virtual channel) that would be WTAJ from Altonna. I get that fine (I guess this will be my new channel for CBS since I lost WUSA)

BTW, does anyone know if VHF is more sensitive to thunderstorms? I have noticed tonight with the storms passing thru that 7 and 9 were pixelating a bit, even though the signal meter was strong (mid 80's and steady on my Tivo HD). Strange. I was messing with the rotor to see if I could get a better signal, but I could not. Just wondering if lightning hurts VHF reception more than UHF?
Yes, VHF is more prone to breakups during thunderstorms than UHF.

Commenting on other posts, the chance of Congress giving back UHF 52 to 59 back (one of the proposals in the 90s was to use 7-59 for digital) is not zero, it is less than zero. The FCC can't get those channels back as the re-allocation of 52 to 69 was made into law by Congress. Upper VHF should be fine for digital broadcasting and provides advantages in longer reach over hillier terrain. There a number of reasons for the problems with upper VHF digital stations. The FCC probably set the power levels for upper VHF too low. Too many people brought UHF only antennas for digital. Or rabbit ears are not cutting it for many because of the cliff effect. Or that WBAL 11 is held to 5 kW to protect WVPT 51 on 11 in Harrisonburg (as the WBAL station engineer reminded me in an email tonight). I have no problems in getting WJLA 7 and WUSA 9 at 16 miles, have gotten WJZ at 43 miles with dropouts, no luck so far for WBAL.

I was wondering if WVPY 42 had increased their power because I didn't notice any obvious change in the too weak to lock signal levels on UHF 21.

I get WJAL 68, but the meter didn't change on mine either.Does WJAL-DT 68 have a PSIP problem on your TV. The dispaly on my TV keeps jumping from 68.1 to 39.3. They must have finally raised their power today. I have gotten zero activity from them until tonight.

I haven't noticed any problems with their PSIP, but it's not a station that I watch often.

Has anyone had problem with WMAR since they moved to 38, I use to get WJZ at night on 38, but haven't been able to get WMAR on 38

Has anyone had problem with WMAR since they moved to 38, I use to get WJZ at night on 38, but haven't been able to get WMAR on 38About normal here (7 out of 10 bars).

I would suggest a 91-XG to augment your 7084, and a higher input pre-amp. The 7084 is an excellent antenna, but the 91-XG can't be beat for deep fringe UHF. The 7777 does not tolerate strong signals well. The Winegard HDP-269 would be your best bet. Conservative pre-amplification is a must with DTV when a mix of very strong & very weak signals are desired.

WJAL-DT 68 (real 39) must be like a torch where you are if I can pick it in Arlington

Has anyone had problem with WMAR since they moved to 38, I use to get WJZ at night on 38, but haven't been able to get WMAR on 38

In fact, of the Baltimore stations that played musical frequencies on Friday, WMAR is the only one I still get! Of course, when WJZ was on 38, they were rock solid for me.

In Chantilly, lost 7, 9 and 50 after the switch.

... and this with an attic-mounted UHF/VHF antenna that formerly received the 7 and 9 analog (and digital) signals with no problem.

In Chantilly, lost 7, 9 and 50 after the switch.

I'm getting all 3 OK in Chantilly with a Channel Master 4228 in my garage attic with an inline 10db amp. My DirecTV STB reports about 70-75% signal strength, but it works - haven't seen any pixelation anywhere.

Too many people brought UHF only antennas for digital. Or rabbit ears are not cutting it for many because of the cliff effect. didn't notice any obvious change in the too weak to lock signal levels on UHF 21.

Maybe you can answer a question a number of my friends/neighbors are asking me. What indoor antenna would you recommend for picking up High VHF stations like WUSA, WJLA. Most of their TV's reside on first floors.

Thanks

I'm in South Riding, VA and I originally got 4, 5, 7, and 9 analog from a twin lead antenna in my attic. I made it a few years ago and cut it to about a channel 5 length, hooked it to a balun and then into the VHF input on my 7777 and a CM 4221 into the UHF input. I did this just as a way to get VHF without buying yet another antenna.

At Friday at about 11:58 I was watching WUSA 9 analog when it was turned off. I rescanned and I did not get the new VHF digital 9. I do not claim to be an expert in this, but I figured since I got analog 9 well that I'd get digital 9 the same. Hmm.

So, I took an old set of rabbit ears that I found recently, hung from them a stud in my ceiling, ran them to the VHF input and now I have digital 9 at about 60% signal strength. I got break-ups during the storm last night and if this continues, I guess I'll invest in something like an antennacraft high band vhf. If anyone has a recommendation on a good VHF antenna that will fit into an attic, I'd appreciate the info.

Maybe you can answer a question a number of my friends/neighbors are asking me. What indoor antenna would you recommend for picking up High VHF stations like WUSA, WJLA. Most of their TV's reside on first floors.

Thanks

Not exactly an indoor antenna, but I think this is the best bet.. Best case get it outside, otherwise, as high up as possible, attics would work good too...

Winegard HD-1080...

Question on MHZ Networks (DTV CH 30-1 - 30-10):

I have a TivoHD and I get good signal strength on MHZ networks channels 30-1 through 30-10. However, I don't get a picture on channels 30-1 - 30-5. Channels 30-6 - 30-10 are good. The freq assignment on the Tivo list appears accurate...its 30.

Anyone else have this problem?

Thanks!

-Brandon

Question on MHZ Networks (DTV CH 30-1 - 30-10):

I have a TivoHD and I get good signal strength on MHZ networks channels 30-1 through 30-10. However, I don't get a picture on channels 30-1 - 30-5. Channels 30-6 - 30-10 are good. The freq assignment on the Tivo list appears accurate...its 30.
No, 30-1 to 30-5 are actually broadcast by WNVC ex-56 in Fairfax physically broadcasting on UHF 24. 30-6 to 30-10 are from WNVT 30 located further south in Goldvein. WNVC was off the air for a long time waiting for WUTB-TV My 24 to vacate channel 24. If you get WUTB-DT My 24 which is on UHF 41, depending on the ATSC tuner firmware & interface, there might be a way to manually tune to RF 24 to check the signal strength for WNVC-DT.

As I understand it, the Tivos don't allow manual tuning and if there is an error in the channel mapping database, the Tivo won't get the station. You should inform Tivo of the error.

As I understand it, the Tivos don't allow manual tuning and if there is an error in the channel mapping database, the Tivo won't get the station. You should inform Tivo of the error.Yes, you should be able to get both stations in northern VA without too much trouble.

Channel 24's antenna is located in Merrifield @ Rt 495 & Rt 29
Channel 30's antenna is located just 5 miles south of Manassas on Rt 234 (Independent Hill)

Not exactly an indoor antenna, but I think this is the best bet.. Best case get it outside, otherwise, as high up as possible, attics would work good too...

Winegard HD-1080...
I have not kept up on on the discussions and reports of the newer upper VHF/UHF antennas, but I gather the HD-1080 has not gotten many positive reports for upper VHF performance. The problem with indoor VHF antennas is that you go in 1 step from a single dipole - rabbit ears - to a much larger antenna with multiple reflectors. For indoor, the next easiest step is to optimize the length of the rabbit ears for VHF 7. See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/RabbitEars.html#Getting.

Beyond that, there are some more compact upper VHF/UHF antennas available. If someone has a good UHF antenna and room in the attic, then a Winegard or Antennacraft upper VHF 7-13 antenna will be around 34" wide and easier to handle than a standard full VHF antenna which are 110" wide for VHF 2.

I had this exchange of e-mails earlier today:Bill Odom:
Your switch from UHF to VHF has cost me the ability to receive your channel. Good move, guys. Please consider upping your power or relocating back to UHF. I have received your channel for the last eight years with my rooftop antenna and now apparently I am SOL without paying for an oversized VHF antenna.
Jay Newman:
we are attempting to get approval from to raise power - well let you knowwhen we get approval.....

Jay Newman, Vice President/General Manager

410 - 578 -7507I contacted the WUSA digital hotline and received a call back from a gentleman named Victor Murphy. He can be reached at vmurphy@wusa9.com. Apparently WUSA has no plans to boost their power, according to him.
I am pulling WUSA with 1 bar of signal strength (out of 10) and WJLA with about 5 out of 10. I have a call in to Fairfax Antenna. I'm not real keen about upgrading. I took a lot of grief from my HOA when I originally put up my UHF about eight years ago.

WUSA can't boost power due to WBPH-DT in Allentown.

WJZ has a permit to increase power but with a directional antenna.

- Trip

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

I was thinking about getting this but I have some tall trees in the way which causes my UHF signal strength to drop in the Spring/Summer when the leaves return. Is VHF more susceptible to this kind of interference/blockage? I am currently getting no signal at all for 7 & 9 but picked them up fine before the switch from UHF.

No, 30-1 to 30-5 are actually broadcast by WNVC ex-56 in Fairfax physically broadcasting on UHF 24. 30-6 to 30-10 are from WNVT 30 located further south in Goldvein. WNVC was off the air for a long time waiting for WUTB-TV My 24 to vacate channel 24. If you get WUTB-DT My 24 which is on UHF 41, depending on the ATSC tuner firmware & interface, there might be a way to manually tune to RF 24 to check the signal strength for WNVC-DT.

As I understand it, the Tivos don't allow manual tuning and if there is an error in the channel mapping database, the Tivo won't get the station. You should inform Tivo of the error.

Yes, you should be able to get both stations in northern VA without too much trouble.

Channel 24's antenna is located in Merrifield @ Rt 495 & Rt 29
Channel 30's antenna is located just 5 miles south of Manassas on Rt 234 (Independent Hill)

Thanks for the info!

Sounds like it is a Tivo lineup problem, we'll see how long it takes them to get it squared away!

-Brandon

I was thinking about getting this but I have some tall trees in the way which causes my UHF signal strength to drop in the Spring/Summer when the leaves return. Is VHF more susceptible to this kind of interference/blockage? I am currently getting no signal at all for 7 & 9 but picked them up fine before the switch from UHF.The leaves don't affect VHF as much as UHF. You should be OK with that antenna as long as you aren't looking for 11 & 13 out of Baltimore.

If you are having some issues with UHF also, why not consider a "combo" antenna with higher UHF gain as well?

I-emailed WJZ today and received the same response about a power increase.

I also cal the FCC DTV help line, got answered in under 5 minutes, The first rep I spoke with took my name and address and said according to her database I had 3 obtainable stations WHAG 25 WWPB 31 and WWPX 60. I told her that wasn't even a full complment of networks and if I could speak to some one technical, she transfered me and within 30 sec. had me connected to another person very understanding and responsive.

I explained to him that with analog I received all major networks from DC, Baltimore and Harrisburg, he said with analog that would be correct, but that according to their database I would only reliable receive the 3 channels above, he understood my frustration, and agreed that alot of stations are not reaching the areas they did before, WPVI in Philly was an example.

They are tracking areas with problems, and are sending me a form to fill out. They want people to let them know of the problems they are having.

Although they didn't solve my problems yet, I was pleased with the call centre.

I would suggest anyone else with losses call them and ask to speak to the technical support department and ask for a form also.

WUSA can't boost power due to WBPH-DT in Allentown.

WJZ has a permit to increase power but with a directional antenna.

- Trip
I think we will see a flurry of STA filings this week from upper VHF stations looking to increase their power right up to the 0.5% interference limit. Or maybe a little beyond that with mutual agreements submitted by the conflicting stations. I have not yet gone back and looked at the WUSA-DT application for VHF 9 to see if they have much, if any, room for a power increase.

BTW, does anyone know if VHF is more sensitive to thunderstorms? I have noticed tonight with the storms passing thru that 7 and 9 were pixelating a bit,
I saw a lot of hiccups and minor breakups on both 11 and 13 last night while storms were in the area. DTVPal was much more plagued by this than Insignia box.


BTW, as far as I can tell, WMPT-DT 22 is operating at increased power on UHF 42. I sent an email to the Director of Engineering at MPT asking about WMPT-DT WWPB-DT, but have not heard back yet.
42 is much better here for the past couple days than in the past. Not sure if change coincided exactly with transition or not, so not sure if this is increased power or reduced interference.


Has anyone had problem with WMAR since they moved to 38, I use to get WJZ at night on 38, but haven't been able to get WMAR on 38I’ve seen no significant change on 38.

In fact, I happened to be in the manual add channel screen on a DTVPal at RF38 when the switch happened. The RF didn’t drop at all; there was no black screen, nothing. One instant it was WJZ-13, and the next it was WMAR-2.

Now that’s what I call a flash cut!

I think we will see a flurry of STA filings this week from upper VHF stations looking to increase their power right up to the 0.5% interference limit. Or maybe a little beyond that with mutual agreements submitted by the conflicting stations. I have not yet gone back and looked at the WUSA-DT application for VHF 9 to see if they have much, if any, room for a power increase.

Here is an interesting video interview from WPVI 6 in Philadelphia...Maybe they underestamated they power need for DTV

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/video?id=6863745

Here is an interesting video interview from WPVI 6 in Philadelphia...Maybe they underestamated they power need for DTV

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/video?id=6863745

They didn't underestimate, the FCC did. WPVI is at the FCC power limit for channel 6.

- Trip

They didn't underestimate, the FCC did. WPVI is at the FCC power limit for channel 6.

- Trip

According to the video they may look at an STA according to the FCC rep

I saw that video yesterday, and I'm hearing now that WLS in Chicago may be boosting power tomorrow to see if it helps, though I don't know by how much they're increasing it.

- Trip

Problems with channel 6?? Why, I'm shocked, shocked, SHOCKED to hear that. :rolleyes:

I love the part where he extols the power-efficiency of digital. But using 10% of the power to produce black screens is not effiicient, it's just waste. It's only more efficient if it actually works...

Sheesh... :rolleyes:

From looking at my signal meter in my DTT901 I receive a signal on all the channels that I had before just not enough to decode. From what I do and don't get I would think 25% would be more realistic than 10%

hi everyone, I'm really confused - why is it that the analog cut over caused me to lose sub-channels for 7 and 9 in Haymarket.

I have two indoor Terk HDTV antennas, one connected to a DirecTV TiVo, and one connected to a DirecTV DVR.

Is this just an issue with the DVRs not having the right mapping info due to something changing on Friday or is it something else?

Thanks!

WUSA can't boost power due to WBPH-DT in Allentown.

WJZ has a permit to increase power but with a directional antenna.

- Trip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WBPH-DT

*sigh*, what about a directional antenna facing south into VA? Would that interfere with WBPH-DT? Compared to WJLA, there is only a small margin of area where I can get both signals with indoor antennae.

They'd have to replace their antenna, which I gather is something they've been trying to avoid. I think they could do it, though, with an antenna protecting WBPH.

- Trip

They'd have to replace their antenna, which I gather is something they've been trying to avoid. I think they could do it, though, with an antenna protecting WBPH.

- Trip

Why would the FCC have allowed another station use ch 9 if there was a chance of interference. A better Example is WTTG on RF36 in DC and WITF on RF 36 in Harrisburg, Most the allotments don't appear to have been thought through

The leaves don't affect VHF as much as UHF.
If you are having some issues with UHF also, why not consider a "combo" antenna with higher UHF gain as well?

There is not a lot of room in my attic for an antenna (I currently have a compact Clearstream4). Do you know of a good combo antenna under 5 feet long that would be good for 50 miles out? Thanks.

Why would the FCC have allowed another station use ch 9 if there was a chance of interference. A better Example is WTTG on RF36 in DC and WITF on RF 36 in Harrisburg, Most the allotments don't appear to have been thought through

Because there's not enough channels left to let every channel have no interference.

- Trip

Question on MHZ Networks (DTV CH 30-1 - 30-10):
However, I don't get a picture on channels 30-1 - 30-5. Channels 30-6 - 30-10 are good. The freq assignment on the Tivo list appears accurate...its 30.
-Brandon

Yes, tivo tribune have screwed up the channel mappings, I have given up complaining to tivo, best bet complain to the station and tell them to get tribune to put in the correct mappings. They had the same problem when they were broadcasting on 67 last year.

I had the same problem with whut, they fixed it a couple weeks after I complained, not sure if my phone call made any difference or if was just a coincidence.

I plan on calling Mhz on monday,

I am also not happy with there lack of useful guide data on the Metro Chinese Network, they don't have anything useful on their website either, Anyone know a source of guide data for this channel? It is supposed to be a channel of the United States Broadcasting Company, based in Rockville, but I haven't been able to find a website for them. I am going to ask my wife to do a search in Chinese to see if she can find anything.

does anyone know why the WJLA feed for the NBA finals has looked horrible for basically every cable provider?

I am suffering inexplicable interference since Friday in the Annandale, VA area. I was formerly using a distribution amp in the attic, which I can no longer use at all or it wipes out all reception by my Dish Network VIP 612 receivers. The only new sources I know about is WNVC RF24 channels 30.1-5, which I have carefully aligned with what's a near null in my Winegard batwing antenna. According to all the ATSC tuners I own, this alignment worked, and (without the amp) I get a SS on 30 that's a little lower than my strongest DC stations. So what's going on here? Why after then transition can I no longer use that attic distribution amp? Is there some other source of interference (not tuned by an ATSC tuner) that came on last Friday?

Apparently WUSA has no plans to boost their power, according to him.
I am pulling WUSA with 1 bar of signal strength (out of 10) and WJLA with about 5 out of 10. I have a call in to Fairfax Antenna. I'm not real keen about upgrading. I took a lot of grief from my HOA when I originally put up my UHF about eight years ago.

That's correct. According to the computer models we have hit the 0.5% interference with the station in Bethlehem, PA. We're all hoping that the model is wrong but that takes time to prove......

Because there's not enough channels left to let every channel have no interference.

- Trip

I know first hand that is has caused WITF problems, when i e-mailed there engineer last thats why they are replacing the 0.377kw analog translator in Chambersburg with a digital one at 5kw

There is not a lot of room in my attic for an antenna (I currently have a compact Clearstream4). Do you know of a good combo antenna under 5 feet long that would be good for 50 miles out? Thanks.If you only have 5 feet to work with, the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 combined with your existing C-4 would be your best bet. Are you using a pre-amp of any kind now? Where are you located?

That's correct. According to the computer models we have hit the 0.5% interference with the station in Bethlehem, PA. We're all hoping that the model is wrong but that takes time to prove......

I was helping my parents with there converter tonight they get WJLA 7 solid, But WUSA 9 is constant breakup's and Fox 5 doen't come in at all these are the three channels they watch most.

I took a lot of grief from my HOA when I originally put up my UHF about eight years ago.

Tell the HOA to stick their antenna rule up their collective a$$es. The feds outlawed said clauses years and years ago.

That said, they keep trying. In this case, the developer of a new area in Middleton, WI, has a no outside antenna clause, no sat dishes large than 20" and no solar panels. He obviouslu hired lawyers that were yes-men. The no sat dish rule, federally, is 1 meter. The state law outlawed the no solar panel clause.

The sad part is that there are those who do not know the law regarding this stuff and actually do what it says.

I'm glad I live in an older neighborhood in Madison before HOAs were dreamed of. So, not only do I have an outside antenna, I have a 10' and a 12' set of BUDs on my property. Not one neighbor has ever said squat over the years.

I am suffering inexplicable interference since Friday in the Annandale, VA area. . . . . The only new sources I know about is WNVC RF24 channels 30.1-5 . . . . So what's going on here? Why after then transition can I no longer use that attic distribution amp?WNVC RF 24 is very potent in Annandale (& here too) You will no longer be able to use a distribution amp. A better antenna that is capable of providing enough gain all on it's own will solve your problem. How much room do you have in your attic?

WNVC has caused one of my Baltimore stations to dissappear, and I'm not using any amplification.

WNVC RF 24 is very potent in Annandale (& here too) You will no longer be able to use a distribution amp. No kidding. They're only 2.5 miles away from my house. However, I can indeed use a distribution amp if I carefully adjust the antenna (which I have done) so that it gets a weak signal from WNVC.

The sensitivity pattern of a dipole antenna has nulls (zero signal strength) at 0 and 90 deg, which is pointed along the direction of the elements themselves. Obviously I don't want WNVC to be sitting right exactly on a null, or I would receive no signal at all. Nevertheless, I adjusted my Winegard GS-1100 antenna so that the signal strength of WNVC (unamplified) is lower than my DC stations. Is WNVC bouncing off something and coming in on axis? Maybe. But if so, I don't see that SS showing up on any of my ATSC tuners.

I claim I'm getting something new, not tunable by an ATSC tuner, coming in on axis. And I furthermore claim it's not WNVC, which is sitting near a null of my antenna's sensntivity. Sorry; you can't use this trick in Arlington, although a conventional highly directional antenna with a high front-to-back ratio might do as well for you. Except for WNVT which would be precluded by that high front-to-back ratio.

I am in Merrifield with my bedroom HDTV hooked up to Cox cable with no HD box or DVR. Prior to the digital conversion, I had received NBC, FOX, ABC, and CBS HD channels beautifully (4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 5.1, 7.1, 7.2, 9.1, & 9.2). Ever since the digital conversion, these channels have been all screwed up. I have rescanned at least 8 times (with each scan taking 10-15 mins). Here is what I have been receiving when I go to each of these channels:

4.1: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
4.2: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
4.3: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
5.1: WUSA-HD
7.1: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
7.2: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
7.3: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
9.1: No picture - Digital channel signal strength is too low
9.2: No picture - Digital channel signal strength is too low

WTF??? Please at least tell me I am not the only one having these problems with Cox...

I have a small roof top antenna and i am able to pick up all the dc channels ( i have lost all Baltimore channels) but the signal is bit low around 6 and i have seen breaks up in the signal few times. I am looking for recommendation for an amplifier or a good vhf/uhf antenna that i can put in the attic. I am attaching my tvfool image. Any help would be appreciated.

I am in Merrifield with my bedroom HDTV hooked up to Cox cable with no HD box or DVR. Prior to the digital conversion, I had received NBC, FOX, ABC, and CBS HD channels beautifully (4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 5.1, 7.1, 7.2, 9.1, & 9.2). Ever since the digital conversion, these channels have been all screwed up. I have rescanned at least 8 times (with each scan taking 10-15 mins). Here is what I have been receiving when I go to each of these channels:

4.1: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
4.2: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
4.3: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
5.1: WUSA-HD
7.1: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
7.2: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
7.3: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
9.1: No picture - Digital channel signal strength is too low
9.2: No picture - Digital channel signal strength is too low

WTF??? Please at least tell me I am not the only one having these problems with Cox...
I'm in Dunn Loring and my Cox cable clear QAM channels are fine. I did not even do a re-scan on the cable channels, only for the OTA channels.

No kidding. They're only 2.5 miles away from my house. However, I can indeed use a distribution amp if I carefully adjust the antenna (which I have done) so that it gets a weak signal from WNVC.The only power increase right in DC so far has been WFDC-DT 14. They have increased power form 325 kw to 1000kw. That may be adding to your issues, but I am still leaning towards WNVC. At 2.5 miles, you will not be able to attenaute that signal but so much no matter what you do. A paperclip would easily pick it up in your basement (If you have one)

I have a small roof top antenna and i am able to pick up all the dc channels ( i have lost all Baltimore channels) but the signal is bit low around 6 and i have seen breaks up in the signal few times. I am looking for recommendation for an amplifier or a good vhf/uhf antenna that i can put in the attic. I am attaching my tvfool image. Any help would be appreciated.
What antenna do you have now? If you want Baltimore again, you will need to keep the antenna outside.

The only power increase right in DC so far has been WFDC-DT 14. They have increased power form 325 kw to 1000kw. That may be adding to your issues, but I am still leaning towards WNVC. At 2.5 miles, you will not be able to attenaute that signal but so much no matter what you do. A paperclip would easily pick it up in your basement (If you have one)

Do you think a channel 24 Join-Tenna hooked to nothing or a channel 24 trap of some kind might be successful in knocking out this particular problem?

- Trip

If you only have 5 feet to work with, the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 combined with your existing C-4 would be your best bet. Are you using a pre-amp of any kind now? Where are you located?

I am in Fredericksburg and only have an amplified splitter now (a generic one from Home Depot, I think). I was thinking about picking up the 10G202 preamp if I get the Y5-7-13 antenna from Solid Signal. I also might be able to fit the AntennaCraft HBU22 combo antenna up there but it would have to be about 6 feet lower than the C-4. Which do you think would be the better option (HBU22 alone or C-4 plus Y5-7-13)? Thanks for your help.

Do you think a channel 24 Join-Tenna hooked to nothing or a channel 24 trap of some kind might be successful in knocking out this particular problem?

- TripIf the OP is just looking for DC stations, it would just be easier to avoid amplification altogether. I believe those jointennas are expensive.

Anyone have any experience with the ClearStream4? I am looking to replace my Square Shooter (UHF only) since I have only marginal reception on channels 11 & 13 since the transition, and I am looking for antenna that isn't real big to put up on the roof. Thanks.

A paperclip would easily pick it up in your basement (If you have one) Agree, but only if the paperclip isn't straightened out and pointed directly at WNVC. ;)

I just went through all my unamplified signal strengths according to my Dish 612 receiver. Channels 7 and 20 are at 100. Most of the rest (including WNVC) are showing mid eighties. 4, 14, 26, 50, and 66 are all seventies. These results are all scrambled according to tvfool.com. We know why 30 isn's so strong. But why is 66 and 14 in the bottom tier rather than the top?

I am in Fredericksburg and only have an amplified splitter now (a generic one from Home Depot, I think). I was thinking about picking up the 10G202 preamp if I get the Y5-7-13 antenna from Solid Signal. I also might be able to fit the AntennaCraft HBU22 combo antenna up there but it would have to be about 6 feet lower than the C-4. Which do you think would be the better option (HBU22 alone or C-4 plus Y5-7-13)? Thanks for your help.Definitely keep the C-4, and add the Y5-7-13. Join the 2 antennas together with a Channel Master 7777 or Winegard 2870 pre-amp.

The HBU-22 doesn't have enough gain for your situation. The best small combo is the Winegard 7694P, but your C-4 is much better on UHF.

I was helping my parents with there converter tonight they get WJLA 7 solid, But WUSA 9 is constant breakup's and Fox 5 doen't come in at all these are the three channels they watch most.

This is the same situation I'm having with two of my tv's. I have not solved it with one in the kitchen, which has a bow-tie terk antennae (uhf only?), but the other tv with a CECB seems to get it if you put the rabbit ears down flat on both sides, non extended facing the transceiver (to the northeast).

I am in Merrifield with my bedroom HDTV hooked up to Cox cable with no HD box or DVR. Prior to the digital conversion, I had received NBC, FOX, ABC, and CBS HD channels beautifully (4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 5.1, 7.1, 7.2, 9.1, & 9.2). Ever since the digital conversion, these channels have been all screwed up. I have rescanned at least 8 times (with each scan taking 10-15 mins). Here is what I have been receiving when I go to each of these channels:

4.1: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
4.2: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
4.3: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
5.1: WUSA-HD
7.1: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
7.2: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
7.3: NBC Live Digital Doppler XT
9.1: No picture - Digital channel signal strength is too low
9.2: No picture - Digital channel signal strength is too low

WTF??? Please at least tell me I am not the only one having these problems with Cox...

When I scan qam on cox here, there are many duplicates for each major channel, and the sub channels.....on several physical channels. (partially something to do with sdv?)

Why would the FCC have allowed another station use ch 9 if there was a chance of interference. A better Example is WTTG on RF36 in DC and WITF on RF 36 in Harrisburg, Most the allotments don't appear to have been thought through

The contour maps listed on the FCC web site overlap by a good 15 miles. Interference outside of the maps is one thing, but to admit that they overlap by 15 miles is ridiculous.

The only power increase right in DC so far has been WFDC-DT 14. They have increased power form 325 kw to 1000kw. That may be adding to your issues, but I am still leaning towards WNVC. At 2.5 miles, you will not be able to attenaute that signal but so much no matter what you do. A paperclip would easily pick it up in your basement (If you have one)

:eek::eek: One MILLION WATTS?!?!

Agree, but only if the paperclip isn't straightened out and pointed directly at WNVC. ;)

I just went through all my unamplified signal strengths according to my Dish 612 receiver. Channels 7 and 20 are at 100. Most of the rest (including WNVC) are showing mid eighties. 4, 14, 26, 50, and 66 are all seventies. These results are all scrambled according to tvfool.com. We know why 30 isn's so strong. But why is 66 and 14 in the bottom tier rather than the top?The trouble with this is that the signal strength readings in consumer equipment are not necessarily actual signal strengths, but more likely based on digital error rates. In other words, if the tuner front end is overloaded, you might see a lower number, even though the signal strength is really very high.

WNVC has caused one of my Baltimore stations to dissappear, and I'm not using any amplification.
Which one?

I hope evryone had a fun weekend. :D

Here's my current situation.

ANALOG STATIONS (234°M)
4 (NL), 5 (NL), 10 (PBS), 15 (PBS), 22 (PBS), 28 (PBS), 42 (3ABN), 48 (PBS), & 50 (W50DE). There's indication that I could be seeing even more, but I would need a spectrum analyzer to confirm.

DIGITAL STATIONS*
2 (WMAR-DT 132°M), 5, 7, 9, 10 (WTAJ-DT 333°M), 13 (WJZ-DT 132°M), 24, 25, 31, 42, 43 (WPMT-DT 88°M), 49 (WGCB-DT 88°M), 54, 60, 66, 67, & 68.

I'm really surpised that I can't get WHAG-DT beyond a Southerly window. At 1000KW, I would think that I could get it without pointing the antenna towards the tower. WJAL-DT is receivable no matter where I point the antenna and it's much, much lower in transmitting power. Both are LOS and WJAL-DT is at 15 miles, while WHAG-DT is at 20 miles.

*Trouble DTV stations are 2, 5, 7, 9, & 13.

You should see the 13 page thread on the WJLA talk-back forums: http://cfc.wjla.com/forums/viewmessages.cfm?forum=47&topic=62073&srow=1&erow=10

Or the three pages of comments on one WUSA9 posting....

http://www.wusa9.com/money/story.aspx?storyid=87299&catid=37#comments

The trouble with this is that the signal strength readings in consumer equipment are not necessarily actual signal strengths, but more likely based on digital error rates. In other words, if the tuner front end is overloaded, you might see a lower number, even though the signal strength is really very high. Aha! [Insert lightbulb here.] I think you've put your finger on the problem. I really can't do what I'm trying to do (null out WNVC) using a SS meter that operates like that.

Can you recommend a cheap meter that will?

I hope evryone had a fun weekend. :D

Here's my current situation.

ANALOG STATIONS (234°M)
4 (NL), 5 (NL), 10 (PBS), 15 (PBS), 22 (PBS), 28 (PBS), 42 (3ABN), 48 (PBS), & 50 (W50DE). There's indication that I could be seeing even more, but I would need a spectrum analyzer to confirm.

DIGITAL STATIONS*
2 (WMAR-DT 132°M), 5, 7, 9, 10 (WTAJ-DT 333°M), 13 (WJZ-DT 132°M), 24, 25, 31, 42, 43 (WPMT-DT 88°M), 49 (WGCB-DT 88°M), 54, 60, 66, 67, & 68.

I'm really surpised that I can't get WHAG-DT beyond a Southerly window. At 1000KW, I would think that I could get it without pointing the antenna towards the tower. WJAL-DT is receivable no matter where I point the antenna and it's much, much lower in transmitting power. Both are LOS and WJAL-DT is at 15 miles, while WHAG-DT is at 20 miles.

*Trouble DTV stations are 2, 5, 7, 9, & 13.


Are you still getting WVPY 42? I lost WVPY it when WHP moved it's digital back to 21.

does anyone know why the WJLA feed for the NBA finals has looked horrible for basically every cable provider?

I have had no picture (blank screen), only sound, via Comcast Alex./Arl. on on WJLA-HD since I first checked yesterday afternoon. Comcast SD WJLA has some stuttering & breakups but is watchable. And like others, I can no longer receive WJLA-HD OTA anymore.

I noticed some other Comcast channels, like the WJLA sub RTN and ION, were stuttering as well.

Someone @ WJLA REALLY needs to be fired over this debacle of a transition. I've received it fine for well over a year, almost 60 miles away and since they switched frequencies all has gone to hell. There's barely any info on their web site and I had to go to antenna web to find out they switched frequencies. People are already posting complaints on their site. How hard can this be? I guess they really don't care if they're broadcasting to the ether. What's that saying about a tree falling in the forest...

Someone @ WJLA REALLY needs to be fired over this debacle of a transition. I've received it fine for well over a year, almost 60 miles away and since they switched frequencies all has gone to hell.Just be glad that the transition is happening right now on a TV landscape with mostly repeats and "reality" on network channels for a few months as opposed to new programming as it could have been in February.

Someone @ WJLA REALLY needs to be fired over this debacle of a transition. I've received it fine for well over a year, almost 60 miles away and since they switched frequencies all has gone to hell. There's barely any info on their web site and I had to go to antenna web to find out they switched frequencies. People are already posting complaints on their site. How hard can this be? I guess they really don't care if they're broadcasting to the ether. What's that saying about a tree falling in the forest...

What debacle? The information was out there for a LONG time they would be going back to VHF and it's the FCC's fault that they cannot transmit with more power.

Someone @ WJLA REALLY needs to be fired over this debacle of a transition. I've received it fine for well over a year, almost 60 miles away and since they switched frequencies all has gone to hell. There's barely any info on their web site and I had to go to antenna web to find out they switched frequencies. People are already posting complaints on their site. How hard can this be? I guess they really don't care if they're broadcasting to the ether. What's that saying about a tree falling in the forest...

Can you post your TVfool results, I would like to see what WJLA's signal looks like at your location.

I have a small roof top antenna and i am able to pick up all the dc channels ( i have lost all Baltimore channels) but the signal is bit low around 6 and i have seen breaks up in the signal few times. I am looking for recommendation for an amplifier or a good vhf/uhf antenna that i can put in the attic. I am attaching my tvfool image. Any help would be appreciated.

Did you mean WDCN-LP as channel 6, or something else, also, just as Digital Rules asked, I would like to your what your hardware currently is!

I seem to have come out ok. The only channel that I lost was WBAL-DT. I have a CM4228 UHF only, so ch 7, 9, & 13 are weaker than before, but viewable.

Someone @ WJLA REALLY needs to be fired over this debacle of a transition. I've received it fine for well over a year, almost 60 miles away and since they switched frequencies all has gone to hell. There's barely any info on their web site and I had to go to antenna web to find out they switched frequencies....
Of the four stations in DC and Baltimore that switched their digital broadcast to upper VHF on Friday, WJLA 7 should be the best off for OTA reception. I just sent an email to them to see if I can get confirmation that they are operating at their full alloted 30 kW or not as the station was originally granted a 13.6 kW ERP (effective radiated power). 30 kW is the maximum allowed by the FCC for digital upper VHF in Zone 1.

The power levels for the four upper VHF stations:
WJLA-DT 7 : 30 kW omni-directional
WUSA-DT 9: 12.6 kW omni-directional
WBAL-DT 11: 5 kW omni-directional
WJZ-DT 13: currently operating under a STA (Special Temporary Authority) at 9.8 kW omni-directional on their "analog" 13 antenna, new directional antenna to be installed in the next 3-4 weeks for 28.8 kW ERP operation. However the directional antenna will markedly suppress broadcast power to the west of WJZ, so people living in that direction will not see much of a power increase from WJZ-DT when they move to the new directional antenna.

If WJLA-DT 7 is operating at 30 kW, then those who are not getting the station after adjusting the antenna location and aim will have to look at adding a upper VHF antenna or upgrading their antenna setup. I have no problems in getting WJLA-DT from 16 miles out in Sterling. Even a Silver sensor on the top floor can pick it up. It is WBAL and WJZ in Baltimore at 43 miles that are still gone for me, although I still have more upper VHF antenna locations to try.

Which one?WWPB-DT 67. I don't really need the station since it is a duplicate MPT station. It was just more convenient to not have to rotate the antenna to recieve one of the other affiliates.

I was hoping to get the Virgina Public Television station from Front Royal, but still not seeing anything here. The only recevable VPT station is now off the air as far as I can tell (Analog channel 58)

I have a 4228 and my Directv HR20-100 now picks up 4, 5, 7, 9, and 50. I never got any of those channels before, but after the switch over they there.

I was able to get all the Baltimore channels, but 11 no longer comes in on my HR20-600. I am hoping an inline amp will help get the signal there since I have to split my antenna 3 ways.

Overall, I am happy with the switch over. More channels.....same antenna!

What debacle? The information was out there for a LONG time they would be going back to VHF and it's the FCC's fault that they cannot transmit with more power.I was hoping that we would get better reception once the stations were at their final frequencies and not worse reception. As for the power situation being the FCC's fault - I hope that they will work something out. Apparentl;y ABC has some power issues in other cities -
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/279344-ABC_FCC_Working_on_DTV_Reception_Issues.php

the FCC was doing some field analysis of how VHF stations "are experiencing problems in big cities." He said he has talked with stations and the commission is trying to figure out how to "adjust the technical parameters of these stations to improve their service in the cities."

I live near the mountain in Dillsburg,pa. I get Balt stations very well before the switch. I use the antennadirect 91. As of now I can get Wbal at very low strength. Once WJZ increases power I will purchase a vhf antenna. I am surprised to get a lock on wbal now as they are not operating at a very high power. Wjz now is mostly gone.

I have a DirecTV HR-20 that has the OTA channels pre-selected in such a way that no scanning is supposed to be required. For some reason, the only new channel that I'm seeing is 7-2 and 30-6 thru 30-10. Neither 7-1 nor 7-3 was remapped to from RF39 to RF7, and 30-1 thru 30-5 was not remapped to RF30 to RF24. Likewise, neither 9-1 nor 9-2 were remapped from RF34 to RF9.

I also have an older HR-10 that requires the OTA channels to be rescanned. Channels 7 and 9 both rescanned just fine. It also found RF24 and mapped those those channels to 30-1 thru 30-5 correctly. However, it didn't know what to do with 30-6 thru 30-10 that it discovered.

My D* H10 picked up all of the stations after a rescan. My H20 still can not pick up 7 and 9 and show 0% signal while the H10 shows 70+. I've tried updating the zip codes, rescan, reset, etc with no luck. Even 13 is weak at 60% while the H10 and the other CECB show 100%. Seems like there is something with the H20 that doesn't allow it to see the signal.

Of the four stations in DC and Baltimore that switched their digital broadcast to upper VHF on Friday, WJLA 7 should be the best off for OTA reception.

Thanks for the info, but WJLA is non-existant for me signal-wise. WUSA I'm getting spotty occasional signal around 9-14 db (out of 30). Seems JLA isn't maxed out power-wise and I haven't seen when/if they will. That's what I'm upset about - I feel like I've been lied to that if I had signal before the transition I would after. My antenna (4228), although UHF, picks up signals into the low VHF range and I checked the analog signals b4 the switch and all seemed fine. JLA knows they've got mondo problems - look at their website comment pages, not that the FCC isn't culpable too (what the government screwing something up :rolleyes:).

I really got used to having the DC locals to supplement the Balt ones due to some Baltimore stations screwing around with their primetime schedules, not broadcasting certain shows in HD even though they're available, etc.

I attached my TV Fool radar pic for ref.

I'm several days late to the DTV conversion party around here, but here goes.

In Eldersburg MD (21784), I am pleased with the additions of Mhz1-5 and the ION mux. ION is actually my strongest station when the antenna is pointed SW.

I still get WJZ and WBAL, but the power levels indicate that for recording purposes I'm going to have to turn my rotor toward Bmore instead of just leaving it pointed DC way. WRC has low readings no matter which way the antenna is turned, but still locks.

My mother-in-law's converter boxes gained a lot of stations without any rotor. Her antenna is locked toward Bmore (she lives in Dundalk-21222) and prior to conversion only received 2,11,13,24,45,54, and 67. Between her three converter boxes she has added 5,7,9,14,20,22,66. She's very pleased.

Finally, I wanted to note a cool distant signal I picked up after WMAR's analog signal went away. For about twenty minutes I was able to see KTBS Ch 3 in Shreveport. Really neat!

FYI. Just noticed that WDCW has fired up there 50.2 Thistv subchannel, albeit with no audio or video. At least nothing my dtt901 can decode. They are transmitting PSIP info though. The current Thistv movie is something about drilling to the core of the earth to find a new species. Must be really dark/quiet down there.

I really got used to having the DC locals to supplement the Balt ones due to some Baltimore stations screwing around with their primetime schedules, not broadcasting certain shows in HD even though they're available, etc
You mean... just like WJLA does with pre-emptions for old movies, news specials, and charity appeals? Never mind the engineers being asleep at the wheel.

My antenna (4228), although UHF, picks up signals into the low VHF range and I checked the analog signals b4 the switch and all seemed fine.Unfortunately, with digital VHF being more subject to multipath, you will need a more directional antenna to continue receiving 7 & 9 from DC reliably. The 4228 just doesn't tolerate multipath well.

Your cheapest option is to augment the 4228 with the Antennacraft Y5-7-13. Combine the 2 antennas with a "UVSJ". If you desire a 1 antenna solution, the Winegard 7694P is the best bang for the buck.

Of the four stations in DC and Baltimore that switched their digital broadcast to upper VHF on Friday, WJLA 7 should be the best off for OTA reception. I just sent an email to them to see if I can get confirmation that they are operating at their full alloted 30 kW or not as the station was originally granted a 13.6 kW ERP (effective radiated power). 30 kW is the maximum allowed by the FCC for digital upper VHF in Zone 1.

The power levels for the four upper VHF stations:
WJLA-DT 7 : 30 kW omni-directional
WUSA-DT 9: 12.6 kW omni-directional
WBAL-DT 11: 5 kW omni-directional
WJZ-DT 13: currently operating under a STA (Special Temporary Authority) at 9.8 kW omni-directional on their "analog" 13 antenna, new directional antenna to be installed in the next 3-4 weeks for 28.8 kW ERP operation. However the directional antenna will markedly suppress broadcast power to the west of WJZ, so people living in that direction will not see much of a power increase from WJZ-DT when they move to the new directional antenna.

If WJLA-DT 7 is operating at 30 kW, then those who are not getting the station after adjusting the antenna location and aim will have to look at adding a upper VHF antenna or upgrading their antenna setup. I have no problems in getting WJLA-DT from 16 miles out in Sterling. Even a Silver sensor on the top floor can pick it up. It is WBAL and WJZ in Baltimore at 43 miles that are still gone for me, although I still have more upper VHF antenna locations to try.

From what I've experienced, I've had more issues with WUSA 9 than 7 based on channel 9's weak power output. Its manageable with rabbit ear based vhf antennae, though the kitchen tv has a bowtie antennae (uhf only?), which is preventing the pickup of 7 and 9.

The FCC has dropped the ball. How much did they know about VHF DTV multipath issues before they recommended selling off Channels 52 through 69? I wonder if the negative situation is even more acute for those few stations that chose Channels 2 through 6, post-transition?

My understanding is that the FCC will entertain applications for transmitter power upgrades in August. Does anyone know anything about this? Because, I don't think that they can wait until August to do something for VHF DTV. More likely, the FCC is going to have to give these channels immediate authorizations to temporarily increase their ERP to 30 kW or more just to see if it helps.

It certainly doesn't help the FCC when four major upper VHF DTV stations are in their own front and back yard.

I have a Channel Master 3018 antenna and a CM7777 pre-amp. I am about 45 miles from the main DC towers as the crow flies. I get mid to high 80s for WJLA and low 90s for WUSA. Just saying it can be done with a VHF antenna, IF you willing to roof mount. I wish now I picked up a 3020, since the antenna orientation to Baltimore is off just a bit, and I could probably aim right in the middle and pick them both up. Before the transition, when it was a clear, calm night, I could pick up the Baltimore stations fine.

I hope evryone had a fun weekend. :D
Not bad, actually.

DX catches from the northeast this morning:

Harrisburg: WHP-21 (21),
Philly: KYW-3 (26), WHYY-12 (12), WPHL-17 (17), WPSG-57 (32)
Trenton: NJN-52 (43)

Also saw Daystar in analog on 45, and some Spanish station (I think Telefutura, but not 100% sure) on 28.

While this was happening, Baltimore and Annapolis MPT were knocked out as expected, as was WMDO-47. WBAL and WJZ also disappeared very briefly, but everything else held up fine.

I'm really surpised that I can't get WHAG-DT beyond a Southerly window. At 1000KW, I would think that I could get it without pointing the antenna towards the tower. WJAL-DT is receivable no matter where I point the antenna and it's much, much lower in transmitting power. Both are LOS and WJAL-DT is at 15 miles, while WHAG-DT is at 20 miles.
More power could also mean stronger reflections and worse multipath.

Aha! [Insert lightbulb here.] I think you've put your finger on the problem. I really can't do what I'm trying to do (null out WNVC) using a SS meter that operates like that.

Can you recommend a cheap meter that will?
No, I don’t have one of those. AntAltMike might know, if he’s still reading the forum.

I have, however, learned to read the digital snow patterns on a couple of my sets, and I find that’s occasionally useful in telling me if there’s a strong, potentially overloaded digital signal present.

Don’t know if I could find an antenna null that way or not, though, because the rotor on my roof antenna has been up there for 35 years and hasn’t been turned in at least 5 years, so I’m afraid to use it for fear it will turn one way but not the other. One of these days, I’m going to fix that, but since the DVRs are happiest when the antenna stays locked on the DC-Baltimore-Philadelphia axis where it is, it isn’t a high priority.

(Would be nice to DX some direction other than NE, but still, if you have to choose just one, I’ll take it. :))

WWPB-DT 67. I don't really need the station since it is a duplicate MPT station. It was just more convenient to not have to rotate the antenna to recieve one of the other affiliates.
Agreed. It would definitely be more convenient for me, since as I said previously, I’m afraid to use my rotor these days. But WMPT is actually coming in pretty well for me now even off-axis, and the trouble with WMPB is that even if I have a signal, I’m not sure how to distribute it without destroying the RF30 MHz signals I’m feeding in from another antenna in the attic. I was reminded just this morning of how easily tropo destroys the WNVT signal from the roof antenna pointed NE.

Still, I would think you could trap 24 to get 29 back. Judging from your reception reports, you seem to have quite a bit of height and fairly strong signals.

I was hoping to get the Virgina Public Television station from Front Royal, but still not seeing anything here. The only recevable VPT station is now off the air as far as I can tell (Analog channel 58)
So the faint analog I’ve been seeing this weekend on 58 is Asiavision?

Still, I would think you could trap 24 to get 29 back. Judging from your reception reports, you seem to have quite a bit of height and fairly strong signals.
WMPT-DT 22 comes in better without rotating since they raised their power, so it's not too bad. You can see the tower from 24 here when the leaves are off the trees. What's weird is that I still have to rotate the antenna about 20 degrees east of Baltimore to get RF 38 to come in. I thought that would not be the case when RF 39 went dark???

Nice DX catches from Philly!! I haven't ever gotten any digital DX from the northeast, but see NC on a rare occasion. Do you see WHAG-DT 25 from your location? I thought it would be better here since WWPB-DT 31 was solid even at 209kw. The HD picture on WHAG is about the best I've seen. Not having subchannels does make a difference!!

So the faint analog I’ve been seeing this weekend on 58 is Asiavision?

WIAV-LP in College Park, MD. What kind of signal are you receiving? I get a snowy color picture in Olney about 11 miles NNW.

Thanks for the info, but WJLA is non-existant for me signal-wise. WUSA I'm getting spotty occasional signal around 9-14 db (out of 30). Seems JLA isn't maxed out power-wise and I haven't seen when/if they will. That's what I'm upset about - I feel like I've been lied to that if I had signal before the transition I would after. My antenna (4228), although UHF, picks up signals into the low VHF range and I checked the analog signals b4 the switch and all seemed fine.
The CM 4228 gain has a notch for VHF 8 and poorer gain for VHF 7 than 9 to 13. It is a UHF antenna with some performance for upper VHF, but the performance for VHF 7 is only a little better than rabbit ears. Your TVFool chart shows you 54 miles from WJLA. At that range, you should have been prepared to get a upper VHF antenna all along. Check the VHF performance for UHF antennas chart at HDTVPrimer for the CM4228: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html. According to the page on the old CM 4228, you can boost the VHF gain a little by tying the two screens together: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html.

The higher gain of the CM 4228 for VHF 9 is likely why you are able to get WUSA 9, but the falloff for VHF 7 is why you can't get WJLA. We are now learning that a reasonably clean picture for analog VHF 7 & 9 does not translate to a stable lock when they go digital. Especially, if the station is going on the low side of the digital equivalent to 316 kW analog which should be around 20+ kW. Unfortunately, of the four upper VHF analog stations in DC and Baltimore, only WJLA-DT 7 exceeds that. WWPX-DT Ion 60 on VHF 12 at 23 kW has been a pretty strong station for me.

BTW, the same website has an analysis of the new CM 4228 HD and it is NOT a thumbs up: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html.

What antenna do you have now? If you want Baltimore again, you will need to keep the antenna outside.

i have this antenna "Channel Master CM 4220M Two-Bay HDTV / UHF Antenna" even though it says it's for UHF. I was able to pick up channel 7 and 9 with it. The reason i was asking for antenna for attic because i can't get to the roof.

Thanks for the replies everyone and for the specific suggestions afiggatt. I basically had those rabbit ears in every possible position before but to be absolutely positive I made sure they were completely extended (over "33) and set them wide (flat horizontally so the were parallel to the ground even) and went perpendicular and every which way to try to get a signal. I moved all around the room and to different heights no satisfying results. That WTOP guy is unbelievable, just to satisfy him and the people at WJLA and WUSA I rescanned the TV, even scanned it once with no antenna connected to clear it all out. Surprise surprise that's not the problem. Here is my TVFool (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663df543383194) page I should be fine. In between my house and and the antenna direction is a stand of 6 30+ feel Carolina Pines. In addition to me cleaning out my gutters of their needles it seems VHF reception is adversely affected (Thank you neighbor!). The trees are not thick at all but I always got snow on the old analog VHF channels. Basically I am doing all of this for my father we have Cox and this is for him watching golf in the bedroom. It seems as if no indoor antenna solution is possible and its not worth it to me do something outdoors (or mess with the cable setup) just for these channels. Those forum links are illuminating, I just can't convince him that this is really the situation and its not likely to change. Guess the days of free TV OTA indoors are over at my household :confused: Oh well, Cox gets all my money anyway :D
Scott

So the faint analog I’ve been seeing this weekend on 58 is Asiavision?
WIAV-LP Asiavision 58 has a very limited coverage area NE of DC that does include the College Park area. I have never seen it from Sterling. I have seen the analog 58 signal from W58DK, the Virginia Public TV translator located west of Culpepper on the Blue Ridge at night, even though I am way outside the coverage area for it. I checked the analog tuner for channel 58 over the weekend and did not see it. No idea if W58DK is still on the air or not.

WIAV-LP recently filed 2 applications for displacement allotments: one for analog low power on VHF 4 at 3 kW with a modest increase in coverage and another one for digital low power on UHF 43 at 10 kW which would provide a major boost in population coverage of 1029% over their UHF 58 signal. If I were WIAV, I would hope the FCC grants the digital RF 43 application.

BTW, WHAG-DT NBC 25 is operating at 575 kW, not 1000 kW. Still a stronger signal than the analog 25 they had. I have picked up WHAG-DT with a Silver Sensor aimed at it on the upper floor, but I still have to rework my UHF setup to see if I can pull in WHAG-DT while also getting the DC and Baltimore stations.

I was able to lock onto WBAL, WJZ, WPXW, WDCA, WJLA and WUSA early this morning, but once the sun was up they dropped to low to decode, so atleast I know the signal is there.

I still see no reason someone should have to replace an antenna that has served them well for years (as long as it is the proper band). I just think the FCC really underestimated the needed power for DTV.

Anyone with problem should file a complaint with the FCC

FYI. Just noticed that WDCW has fired up there 50.2 Thistv subchannel, albeit with no audio or video. At least nothing my dtt901 can decode. They are transmitting PSIP info though. The current Thistv movie is something about drilling to the core of the earth to find a new species. Must be really dark/quiet down there.

I'm not seeing 50.2 at all. They must be testing things in preparation for the official launch.

No, I don’t have one of those. AntAltMike might know, if he’s still reading the forum. I've been discussing this WNVC overload problem with a ham colleague, and he has agreed with Digital Rules. He says, due to the 2.5mi distance, the signal is going to bounce off most anything and enter my antenna on axis, effectively filling in the nulls. So I can't get rid of this overload condition by rotating a dipole antenna. :( So much for my well-laid plans. If this is true, and I think it is, then acquiring a SS meter is pointless, no pun intended. ;)

This leaves attenuators, preferably tuned to RF24, to fix the situation and allow me to amplify again. I've been emailing the chief engineer at MHz Networks, but he says he has none, and instead recomended a tunable attenuator that costs $200. :mad: Don't stations have to do something to ameliorate the situation near their transmitters?

Any reason you don't want to replace the antenna? I think that would be the most cost effective way to solve your problem. You should easily be able to feed 3-4 TV's with an unamplified system & the right antenna.

WIAV-LP Asiavision 58 has a very limited coverage area NE of DC that does include the College Park area. You're right, there is a station on 58 analog. They are showing some pretty hard core hip-hop videos right now. (Not edited) I didn't think you could use the "F" word on commercial TV? I guess times are a chan'gin. It's called "The Real Hip-Hop Network".

Any reason you don't want to replace the antenna? I think that would be the most cost effective way to solve your problem. You should easily be able to feed 3-4 TV's with an unamplified system & the right antenna. Was that addressed to me?

What antenna would you have me buy, and where should I point it? Note that I can get DC stations now, but not Baltimore and not WNVT as I could before the transition. My ham friend recommended a highly directional deep fringe antenna the better to ignore WNVC, plus a variable attenuator to keep the DC stations from blasting my tuners. Some of the other strong channels (66) are already pixelating, even using the relatively low-gain Winegard batwing without an amp to confuse the issue.

3 HDTVs and 3 satellite receivers + 2 tuner sticks + 1 PCI tuner = 9 feeds already, not counting my old analog TVs and converter boxes (currently unhooked.)

Was that addressed to me?

What antenna would you have me buy, and where should I point it? If it's ugly, it's going into the attic and not up on the roof.

3 HDTVs and 3 satellite receivers + 2 tuner sticks + 1 PCI tuner = 9 feeds already, not counting my old analog TVs and converter boxes (currently unhooked.)Yes,

Are you just looking for the DC stations? I didn't realize you needed that many splits.

Are you just looking for the DC stations No, I want them all ;) most particularly the Baltimore stations and WNVT that I had before WNVC came back on the air. I already have the DC stations, though some are (apparently) too strong even without amplification for the nearest tuners. I say that because my strongest stations are not showing up that way on my SS meters. Joblo attributed this to the meters not really measuring SS, but rather the digital error rate.

What happened? Everybody sort out their problems?

What are the FCC rules regarding interference between one station and others? I'm having big problems with a nearby station WNVC that just returned to the air last Friday. Don't they have to do something to mitigate the effect their transmissions are having on other stations?

Unfortunately, with digital VHF being more subject to multipath, you will need a more directional antenna to continue receiving 7 & 9 from DC reliably. The 4228 just doesn't tolerate multipath well.

Your cheapest option is to augment the 4228 with the Antennacraft Y5-7-13. Combine the 2 antennas with a "UVSJ". If you desire a 1 antenna solution, the Winegard 7694P is the best bang for the buck.


Thanks for the advice. I thought VHF was supposed to be better :( I used to have a deep fringe yagi but it was too directional and wouldn't allow me to pick up Balt & DC without rotation, which is impractical with multiple sets viewing different channels simultaneously, hence the 4228. I printed out the Antennacraft info to look at but I wish there was a way to test it out before buying...

I have a 7777 pre amp which if I remember correctly has both UHF and VHF inputs. Can I skip the UVSJ and just plug the new antenna in there?

Thanks!

The CM 4228 gain has a notch for VHF 8 and poorer gain for VHF 7 than 9 to 13. It is a UHF antenna with some performance for upper VHF, but the performance for VHF 7 is only a little better than rabbit ears. Your TVFool chart shows you 54 miles from WJLA. At that range, you should have been prepared to get a upper VHF antenna all along. Check the VHF performance for UHF antennas chart at HDTVPrimer for the CM4228: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html. According to the page on the old CM 4228, you can boost the VHF gain a little by tying the two screens together: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html.



Thanks for the links!

I have a 7777 pre amp which if I remember correctly has both UHF and VHF inputs. Can I skip the UVSJ and just plug the new antenna in there?

Thanks!

Yeah, just be sure to crack the 7777 open and flip the switch that's inside. By default, I believe the 7777 is set for a combined VHF/UHF input only.

There is now an article in the washington post about the DTV issues, linking to this thread:

Goodbye, Analog TV. Hello, Digital TV.

It's over. Except it's not.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2009/06/goodbye_analog_tv_hello_digita.html

What happened? Everybody sort out their problems?

What are the FCC rules regarding interference between one station and others? I'm having big problems with a nearby station WNVC that just returned to the air last Friday. Don't they have to do something to mitigate the effect their transmissions are having on other stations?
The FCC rules on interference deal with co-channel or adjacent channel spacing between stations. Your problem, if I have kept track through the sheer volume of posts here and other asvforum threads, is that you are located close to the WNVC tower, but the signal is overloading your distribution amp. The solutions to that are either to have no broadcast towers at all or place them miles away from any residential neighborhoods.

WNVC MHz 56 is at 160 kW which is not that strong a UHF signal compared to the 1000 kW maximum allowed for UHF digital or the 5000 kW that analog WHUT 32 was at. WNVC is on UHF 24, one up from the low power WDDN-LP Daystar 23 in DC with no nearby station operating on UHF 25. It is not a frequency interference problem, just a signal overload problem. A notch or suppression filter on the antenna feed to the amp should do the trick.

As for the thread quieting down, fatigue and the work week are probably the reason. I have been experimenting and hope that a CM 4221 with the backscreen removed will get me WHAG-DT 25 while also pulling in WNVT 30, WNVC, the DC and Baltimore UHF stations in different directions. My Winegard upper VHF antenna has pulled in WJZ 13 at 43 miles but only at night with a lot of dropouts and no luck at all on getting a lock for WBAL 11. 5 kW for upper VHF is not nearly enough for a station that was operating at 316 kW analog.

I also did some testing with rabbit ears and they were not adequate to get WJLA 7 and WUSA 9 reliably now at 16 miles. Hence the flood of complaints from both the pre-trans digital viewers who got UHF antennas with rabbit ears AND the analog viewers with rabbit ears who are not close to NW DC. Interestingly the CM 4221 did pull in WJLA and WUSA when I tried it, but that was a short test.

There is now an article in the washington post about the DTV issues, linking to this thread:

Thanks for noticing that blog post! FYI, one of my colleagues, Kim Hart, is working on a piece about WJLA and WUSA's problems and welcomes reports from people who have been dealing with them. You can reach her at hartk@washpost.com.

From reading the comments to Rob's Faster Forward (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2009/06/goodbye_analog_tv_hello_digita.html) I saw that WJLA has a page addressing some of the issues at
http://cfc.wjla.com/external.cfm?p=dtv_vhf
One item of interest there:For the past 10 years, WJLA has operated their digital signals in the UHF (ultra high frequency) television band on channel 39. To provide a better signal to you, we returned to channel 7 when we made the FINAL transition to all-digital television. Channel 7 is in the VHF (very high frequency) television band and will provide a stronger, better signal to your home.So, they thought we would be getting a better signal when they went from UHF to VHF, but apparently that does not seem to be the case at the moment.

Cox NoVA updates:

Added MPTDT (767), MPT2 (812), and ?MPT3? (22, SD simulcast of MPT as far as I can tell ... I thought this was s'posed to be V-ME)
Added WPXW Ion (715), displacing Palladia to 769
Added WHUT (32, I guess)

-SUO

So for those of you who now receive both MPT and WETA is there any consensus as to which has better picture quality? I record The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer every night and I'm wondering if I should be recording the MPT version of the WETA version? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Thanks for all your comments, which are spot on.
A notch or suppression filter on the antenna feed to the amp should do the trick. Fully agree! Only problem; I can't find a fixed notch filter except what appear to be very expensive custom-built OEM filters, and this tunable one (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UT-2700) for $70. Short of designing and building one myself, are there any suppliers out there that have more affordable filters?

From reading the comments to Rob's Faster Forward (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2009/06/goodbye_analog_tv_hello_digita.html) I saw that WJLA has a page addressing some of the issues at
http://cfc.wjla.com/external.cfm?p=dtv_vhf
One item of interest there:So, they thought we would be getting a better signal when they went from UHF to VHF, but apparently that does not seem to be the case at the moment.

From reading that link, they apparently don't understand that for most people, the move from uhf to vhf has resulted in a WEAKER signal. When it was on uhf, ALL of our atsc tuners with indoor antennae were able to pick it up. Now it is restricted to quite a bit of fiddling/angling of the rabbit ears to get a WEAKER signal. One of our tv's cannot even get 9 because of its location. The only good thing is if your able to get wusa, it seems to have less multipath issues.

One item of interest there:So, they thought we would be getting a better signal when they went from UHF to VHF, but apparently that does not seem to be the case at the moment.

Right. But to be fair, I'm one of the people who suggested that the move to VHF would only increase their coverage--the FCC's post-transition coverage predictions all said as much. So this current situation has led to some... [ahem] awkward interactions with a few readers.

- R

Unlike most folks I seem to be doing pretty good with my reception of WJLA (99%) and WUSA (97%). I had to scan/add them individually on both my DISH 612 and 722.

This is from a post I wrote back in March 2004. Everything is the same except for my DISH receivers:

I'm using an Radio Shack VU-120XR, w/ rotator, no preamp. Tried it in the attic but signal wasn't consistent. I bought all the equipment (~$150) and had Fairfax Antenna (~$200) put it up on my roof ( 40' to the peak & 45 degree pitch). It's on a tripod with about 15' of mast and three guy wires. Used RG6QS. Everthing is WELL grounded. Feeding a Dish 6000.

After a couple of years I added a Radio Shack 15-1196, 1 in to 2 Bi Directional Amp, to split the signal to a second Dish 6000. A preamp did not improve my signal, but this amp did.

I'm getting outstanding reception from D.C. (35mi) and Baltimore (60mi). I think a lot of my success is due to being several hundred feet above sea level.

I went with the UHF/VHF setup playing the odds that some of the stations will revert back to their VHF signals for digital when everything shakes out.

Really, how much of the WJLA & WUSA problem is people trying to pick up VHF channels with UHF antennas?

How did WBAL end up with only 5kw of power and why did the FCC think that they had to protect ch. 12 from Martinsburg, WV when that channel is just a duplicate of ch. 34?

My experience so far: Lost WJLA and WUSA completely on an indoor UHF/VHF antenna (all locals came in fine before the transition via UHF). For my attic mount Radio Shack 15-2160 UHF-only antenna, I lost all Baltimore channels with the exception of WUTB24. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that I would lose WMARDT and WBFFDT, since both are still broadcasting on UHF. Can get sporadic WUSA9 on this antenna, but no WJLA. I know this part of the equation is on me for having the UHF-only antenna at this point, but the rest of my story doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

So has anyone gotten any real explanation on wusa drop out. Are they reduced power, or using a temporary transmitter at the moment? Because I can get abc just fine, but the tv doesn't detect anything at channel 9.

The FCC rules on interference deal with co-channel or adjacent channel spacing between stations. Your problem, if I have kept track through the sheer volume of posts here and other asvforum threads, is that you are located close to the WNVC tower, but the signal is overloading your distribution amp. The solutions to that are either to have no broadcast towers at all or place them miles away from any residential neighborhoods.

WNVC MHz 56 is at 160 kW which is not that strong a UHF signal compared to the 1000 kW maximum allowed for UHF digital or the 5000 kW that analog WHUT 32 was at. WNVC is on UHF 24, one up from the low power WDDN-LP Daystar 23 in DC with no nearby station operating on UHF 25. It is not a frequency interference problem, just a signal overload problem. A notch or suppression filter on the antenna feed to the amp should do the trick.

As for the thread quieting down, fatigue and the work week are probably the reason. I have been experimenting and hope that a CM 4221 with the backscreen removed will get me WHAG-DT 25 while also pulling in WNVT 30, WNVC, the DC and Baltimore UHF stations in different directions. My Winegard upper VHF antenna has pulled in WJZ 13 at 43 miles but only at night with a lot of dropouts and no luck at all on getting a lock for WBAL 11. 5 kW for upper VHF is not nearly enough for a station that was operating at 316 kW analog.

I also did some testing with rabbit ears and they were not adequate to get WJLA 7 and WUSA 9 reliably now at 16 miles. Hence the flood of complaints from both the pre-trans digital viewers who got UHF antennas with rabbit ears AND the analog viewers with rabbit ears who are not close to NW DC. Interestingly the CM 4221 did pull in WJLA and WUSA when I tried it, but that was a short test.

It took me 2 hours to adjust my father's rabbit ears 4 miles from the towers up Connecticut Avenue in Kensington. 7 and 9 are almost impossible to capture while picking up 5, 7, 20 and 26. Sad day for old folks. My 95 year old father who lives alone kept asking me "Why would they make it worse"?

My experience so far: Lost WJLA and WUSA completely on an indoor UHF/VHF antenna (all locals came in fine before the transition via UHF). For my attic mount Radio Shack 15-2160 UHF-only antenna, I lost all Baltimore channels with the exception of WUTB24. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that I would lose WMARDT and WBFFDT, since both are still broadcasting on UHF. Can get sporadic WUSA9 on this antenna, but no WJLA. I know this part of the equation is on me for having the UHF-only antenna at this point, but the rest of my story doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Did you lose WBFF and WNUV? They didn't change anything...

How did WBAL end up with only 5kw of power and why did the FCC think that they had to protect ch. 12 from Martinsburg, WV when that channel is just a duplicate of ch. 34?
WBAL-DT 11 is protecting WVPT-DT PBS 51 on RF 11 in Harrisonburg. There is also WHTM-DT ABC 27 on RF 10 in Harrisburg, PA their 5 kW application shows 0.1% population interference with. WPXW-DT Ion 60 on RF 12 is not a concern for WBAL-DT. I exchanged emails with the station engineer with WBAL over the weekend, he is well aware of the problems with the low power.

WUSA-DT 9 is at their post-transition allotment of 12.6 kW. They have to protect WGAL-DT NBC 8 in Lancaster, PA (0.03% interference) and WBPH-DT 60 on RF 9 in Bethelem, but WBPH-DT shows 0.0% interference in their 12.6 kW application. I suspect that WUSA-DT should be able to be alloted a higher power level without great difficulty, if WUSA asks. But how much more, I don't know.

WJZ-DT 13 is having to protect WWPX-DT - next channel down. However, I just found in a CDBS search that WJZ-DT filed today a engineering STA to operate at 27.5 kW from their current omni-directional antenna! The STA would cause 1.46% interference with WWPX. This would ONLY be in place until their new directional antenna was installed in 3 weeks. Which means I would likely lose WJZ-DT 13 when the new antenna is in place as the power in my direction in Sterling would be around 10 kW - what WJZ-DT has now.

WJZ-DT Engineering STA application: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101317921&formid=911&fac_num=25455.

Really, how much of the WJLA & WUSA problem is people trying to pick up VHF channels with UHF antennas?

i,ll bet alot,i live in woodbine md about 35 miles out,7 and 9 were good before but are a little better now.i have a small rca antenna on the roof,7,9 11,13 are tricky with indoor antennaa around here.

WBAL-DT 11 is protecting WVPT-DT PBS 51 on RF 11 in Harrisonburg. There is also WHTM-DT ABC 27 on RF 10 in Harrisburg, PA their 5 kW application shows 0.1% population interference with. WPXW-DT Ion 60 on RF 12 is not a concern for WBAL-DT. I exchanged emails with the station engineer with WBAL over the weekend, he is well aware of the problems with the low power.



I didn't know about those PA channels. My next question would be Why don't they have a directional signal with more power going to the south.

WUSA-DT 9 is at their post-transition allotment of 12.6 kW. They have to protect WGAL-DT NBC 8 in Lancaster, PA (0.03% interference) and WBPH-DT 60 on RF 9 in Bethelem, but WBPH-DT shows 0.0% interference in their 12.6 kW application. I suspect that WUSA-DT should be able to be alloted a higher power level without great difficulty, if WUSA asks. But how much more, I don't know.

The 12.6KW allegedly shows WBPH-DT with the 0.05% interference. It was fiercely contested as well. Alas, we would love the max, in fact a nice 6dB would be even better but alas!

FYI, WBAL is going off the air tonight after Conan O'Brien:

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/19771981/detail.html

I assume by "no service interruption" they mean non-OTA viewers :-)

I'm writing them another note about the volume being so high on WBAL-DT as well, anyone else wanna join me?

Really, how much of the WJLA & WUSA problem is people trying to pick up VHF channels with UHF antennas?

Well, I thought that was my problem. But then I ran my UHF antenna that on the roof with a rotor to the DTV and all of the channels are coming in at great signal strength with the UHF antenna. Even 7, 9, 11, and 13 are strong. So, I can't get them with a table top VHF/UHF antenna inside the house, but the UHF antenna on the roof is picking them up. The roof antenna is a Channel Master 4228 (which is the 8-bay bowtie) and I have a rotor. Aimed at Baltimore, the Baltimore stations are rock solid tonight and I'm getting the DC stations off of my FiOS TV service, so I'm back in business.

Hey, folks!

I spent a good part of the day up on my tower. I replaced my 5' center pipe with a 12' pipe. This allowed me to move my rotor further down the tower, while raising the CM3020 to about 7' above the tower (it was less than 2' before). My CM3020 is now at about 45' height. I also received a call from a friend of mine, who has come across a 50' tower that the owner wants removed ASAP. Can you say 90-100'. :D

WTTG-DT and WJZ-DT are now 5x5. WJLA-DT is almost glitch free and I now get WBFF-DT and WDCA-DT, but I've completely lost WUSA-DT. I still don't get WMAR-DT or WRC-DT.

While I was trying to find the optimum height for my setup, I did notice that there is a very small window where I can get a 25% quality for WUSA-DT. It appears that ATSC isn't as forgiving as NTSC, when it comes to height. If I peaked for D.C., I lost Baltimore. OH, the fun!

Wish I had a portable spectrum analyzer.

I assume by "no service interruption" they mean non-OTA viewers :-)
Or those that are sleeping. :)

I helped another elderly lady with her converter outside of Mercersburg with her Magnavox I was able to get 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15, 20, 21, 24, 25, 27, 30, 31, 33, 45, 49, 50, 54, 60, 66, 67, 68. I was afraid WWPX on RF 12 would have caused problems with WBAL, but it is just as strong on the meter as WJZ and WWPX. Even WMAR on RF 38 comes in fine with no problems from WJAL on RF 39 at 4 miles with LOS. This is one person that has acutally gained channels. Setup is an older Winegard antenna and amp with rotor on a 30' tower. Granted she is on a slight hill, but still has two mountains blocking LOS. I think there is hope yet.

I could not get WUSA 9.1 on a couple sets with UHF/VHF indoor antenna until this morning. I have to go over my Moms house and rescan her set as she has no 9.1 either. I also had no sound from 7.1 on a Toshiba set for about a week and now the sound is back.

Surprisingly I had no problem getting 7.1 or 9.1 with an indoor UHF only antenna. I am close to stations as I live inside DC. I have lost Baltimore 11.1 NBC and 13.1 CBS.

I helped another elderly lady with her converter outside of Mercersburg with her Magnavox I was able to get 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15, 20, 21, 24, 25, 27, 30, 31, 33, 45, 49, 50, 54, 60, 66, 67, 68. I was afraid WWPX on RF 12 would have caused problems with WBAL, but it is just as strong on the meter as WJZ and WWPX. Even WMAR on RF 38 comes in fine with no problems from WJAL on RF 39 at 4 miles with LOS. This is one person that has acutally gained channels. Setup is an older Winegard antenna and amp with rotor on a 30' tower. Granted she is on a slight hill, but still has two mountains blocking LOS. I think there is hope yet.
WOW! WETA-DT in Franklin County, PA? Being on the West side of the Valley, gives very good results. I'm surprised she didn't get WTTG-DT (FOX5) or WPMT-DT (FOX43).

I spent a good part of the day up on my tower. I replaced my 5' center pipe with a 12' pipe. This allowed me to move my rotor further down the tower, while raising the CM3020 to about 7' above the tower (it was less than 2' before). My CM3020 is now at about 45' height. I also received a call from a friend of mine, who has come across a 50' tower that the owner wants removed ASAP. Can you say 90-100'. :D
For that amount of trouble, why don't you get a better antenna setup? The CM-3020 is considered to be a medium grade VHF/UHF antenna. If you want better UHF performance, keep the CM-3020 for VHF, but add a AntennasDirect 91-XG for UHF. Looking at the specs, the 91-XG should provide about 3-5 dB more gain for UHF. If adding the 91-XG is a weight problem for the tower, then you should ask in the HDTV Technical forum what VHF/UHF antenna would the professional installers and deep fringe crowd would recommend.

WOW! WETA-DT in Franklin County, PA? Being on the West side of the Valley, gives very good results. I'm surprised she didn't get WTTG-DT (FOX5) or WPMT-DT (FOX43).

I haven't found anyone yet that can get WTTG, or WPMT, Even on the west side of the valley most of the UHF stations still have there hichups, I think there can still be improvements made. The only distant UHF I have found to be rock solid around here is WTAJ from Altoona on RF32. There are now two people that I know of the get WBAL solid, with no interference porblems from WWPX. My parents now get 7, 8, 9 and 13 ok, some breakups, but no WBAL and no UHF from DC period and only a couple from Baltimore. We are waiting for our complaint forms from the FCC. So far I'm a VHF supporter.

FYI, WBAL is going off the air tonight after Conan O'Brien:

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/19771981/detail.html

I assume by "no service interruption" they mean non-OTA viewers :-)


Well, we ARE in the minority. Guess I'll just tune into Craig Ferguson, as usual. :D

This is a long shot, but maybe the DC and Baltimore stations shoud look into a DTS system, From what I have been reading in theses forums and the Washington Post article a tower on South Mountain East of Hagerstown, one between Warrenton and Fredericksburg and one on the mountain between Berkely Springs and Winchester for DC, Might work since some of these staions are use to tower sharing. If you look at the DC DMA map they must be may who have no reception at all, expecially in western Md and W. Va.

AND... there it went!

Glad to see they still stretch/shrink the screen willy nilly too.
News update? Let's shrink the video (not proportionally)!
And add in a little noise to alert people! People like that!
-stare-

I live in Clarksville, MD, just west of Columbia. On Friday evening, I received a pixelating Ch. 13, 11, and 9, and intermittent 7. Now, with some fiddling of the amplified rabbit ears, I can get 7 and 9, but no 11 and 13. It's weird that in a Baltimore suburb, 19 miles from TV Hill, I can't get 2 out of the 3 network stations. Is it the multipath problem, or the low signal strength. I thought VHF meant better distance; or is it that rabbit ears just don't work that well. I received those stations fine on UHF prior to the switch. Can't they switch back to their UHF frequencies, or simulcast. I can't believe they want to lost their Howard County market, which based on some other comments from people in Columbia, seems likely.

My D* H10 picked up all of the stations after a rescan. My H20 still can not pick up 7 and 9 and show 0% signal while the H10 shows 70+. I've tried updating the zip codes, rescan, reset, etc with no luck. Even 13 is weak at 60% while the H10 and the other CECB show 100%. Seems like there is something with the H20 that doesn't allow it to see the signal.

I replaced the cable between the diplexor switch for OTA and the H20 receiver and was able to resolve the problem. I am now getting 70+ for 7 and 9 and 100% for 13. Took a while to determine that the problem was in the one short piece of cable. I am back to what I received before the transition with a few additional channels (ION and 21 -WHP out of Harrisburg much stronger). I still can not get digital channel 5 out of DC (although I used to several years ago). This seems to be a problem for others in PA as noted in some posts above.

For that amount of trouble, why don't you get a better antenna setup? The CM-3020 is considered to be a medium grade VHF/UHF antenna. If you want better UHF performance, keep the CM-3020 for VHF, but add a AntennasDirect 91-XG for UHF. Looking at the specs, the 91-XG should provide about 3-5 dB more gain for UHF. If adding the 91-XG is a weight problem for the tower, then you should ask in the HDTV Technical forum what VHF/UHF antenna would the professional installers and deep fringe crowd would recommend.
I'm considering a change, but I want to go in the right direction, without wasting any finances. All who know me have come to understand the following about my life:

"If it's going to happen, it will happen to me."

"No repair or replacement goes smoothly."

"Just when you think your done, something breaks."

The Washington Post today has a story on the problems with the reception for WJLA 7 and WUSA 9 since they switched to VHF on Friday. The media coverage is finally getting around to discussing that the stations moved to VHF 7 and 9 and that many people may not have a good enough VHF antenna for their location. The FCC is still pushing the double scan, but that is not going to fix the problem for most tuners. Freda posted the article in the HOTP thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16667460#post16667460.

Has anyone seen reports or heard from WUSA that they are planning to ask for increased power?

A notch or suppression filter on the antenna feed to the amp should do the trick. The closest I can find for a fixed notch filter for WNVC RF24 is this thing (http://www.summitsource.com/linear-nf470-notch-filter-blocks-catv-channels-70-74-and-uhf-19-23-creates-catv-71-73-nf470-1-pack-inline-notch-filter-coupler-barrel-adapter-part-nf470-p-8554.html) for $25. :( It's spec'd to block channels 19-23, which I interpret to mean "cut the signal 60dB". As near as I can tell, since this isn't built for channel 24, is that I will only get around -6dB (in the center of channel 24). This is not even enough to bring WNVC down to the level of WPXW, my next most powerful station.

Why isn't there a good supply of these things available for any channel we want? :mad:

And why oh why are all tuner manufacturers confusing us with a digital error rate meter rather than a simple signal strength meter? :mad::mad::mad: Recall that my most powerful stations all show low "signal strength" on my tuners, rather than a big fat red 200% or something more evocative of what's going on. Had I not badly overloaded my distribution amp, and gotten help here, I never would have figured this out!

Had I not badly overloaded my distribution amp, and gotten help here, I never would have figured this out!I'm not sure if you will like this idea, but I'll throw it out anyway. How about 2 combo antennas? Run 4-5 splits off each antenna un-amplified.

It looks to be quite pricey, as you have mentioned, to properly attenuate channel 24 to allow any kind of distribution amp to be used.

Did you lose WBFF and WNUV? They didn't change anything...

That's what I'm saying - doesn't make any sense at all (and I have re-scanned). I guess I should try what has been suggested- to restart receiver and unplug/plug back in my antenna.

Arrgh! MPT started to stretch SD content. They must have done this as part of the digital switchover. First program I watched on it was the Afternoon Tea comedies on Monday. Did old WBAL engineers start to work there?

I sent them an email.

You are at a complicated location with markets in different directions. You might consider a 4 bay bowtie for UHF as the flat plate bowties pick up UHF over a wide spread in azimuth. Then a medium range upper VHF antenna that is not too directional. Lots of different antenna setups to consider.

Thanks for the replies. Can anyone offer some recommended specific antennas for my case?

Here's my radar plot:
http://www.tvfool.com/option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d226d16c02c

I'd like to get as many digital stations as possible, but I also don't want to fool with a rotor.

My home is down a hill (but 90 ft above a river valley), though it looks like my view toward Washington is somewhat "around" the hill, at least I won't be pointing an antenna directly into the hill.

I talked to permitting here in Frederick Co and I don't need one for a regular TV antenna that's less than 12' above the roof line. I have a 2 story house with a walk out basement in the back. I'm just guessing this might put the antenna height at 35' AGL, maybe it could be closer to 45' if I put a 12' mast at the peak of the roof.

They did mention 90 mph wind loading and suggested 110 mph to account for occasional ice storms we get around here.

I have no qualms about putting up a big antenna (or two, if a combination is better.)

Looking at the plot, my main concerns are ch 28 in the same direction as DC stations but much stronger, is that an overload situation? And I would like to pull in some stations other than DC (possibilities are Baltimore, Martinsburg, and Hagerstown) if there's an antenna pattern that can do it but figure I might need a high gain directional to get the best signals from DC given my distance and terrain.

Some antennas I was considering are the CM 4228 or AD 91XG (would need to pair it with something Hi-VHF for 7,and 9).

Some antennas I was considering are the CM 4228 or AD 91XG (would need to pair it with something Hi-VHF for 7,and 9).

Or maybe the AD DB8?

What is a good Hi-VHF antenna? I know I've seen it around here but I can't find it now... 5-7-9 ? I recall it's three hyphenated numbers but not remembering them exactly.

I suppose I might as well try to get some free tech support here :)

As this TVFool plot shows (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d9f5a39cca5), I shouldn't have any issues pulling in all of the nearby stations and some not-so-nearby broadcasts. Yet I do. So far, 4, 5, 14, 20 and 22 have come in very well, with good reception from 32 and 66. If I move the antenna closer to the window, I can get 7 and 50. If I lean it right against the window, I can even get 9 and 26 to show up as well as they did a year ago.

The antenna in question is a Terk model I bought in 1996 or so as a backup to cable (can't be the same model after so many years, but it looks like the TV4 model listed on Audiovox's site (http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14202&langId=-1)). With that, I got all the big four networks, plus 20, 22, 26 and 50--and so had no problem telling readers "look, this works; I've seen what it can do in my own home with this antique antenna."

My home, in case any of this makes a difference, is a 1920 bungalow with walls that are mainly plaster-and-lath construction. It's about 280 feet above sea level, with large trees on most sides; starting about a half-mile to the north, there's a decent accumulation of 10 to 20-story buildings.

Any advice on what antenna I should try next? There is a Radio Shack downstairs from my office, so it's not like I'd have to go out of my way to test one antenna, then return it if it doesn't work.

Thanks...

- R

That's what I'm saying - doesn't make any sense at all (and I have re-scanned). I guess I should try what has been suggested- to restart receiver and unplug/plug back in my antenna.Is the 15-2160 amplified?

I'm in Manassas, (~27 miles from most of the towers according to antennaweb) using a ClearStream4, which until the switch allowed me to pull in 4,5,7,9,20,32 and a few others that I generally never watched. Before the switch 7 and 9 on analog were watchable but not great. I was thinking this would mean I'd be able to get them after the switch back to VHF, but judging by the comments here that's not going to be the case. 7 and 9 are gone completely and for some reason 4 has become rather spotty. Ironically 7 and 9 were my best channels before the switch - nary a dropped frame or pixelation to be seen.

I guess my best option at this point is to get an upper VHF antenna and a signal combiner, but hearing that folks even much closer to DC are not able to get 7 and 9 is making me think it's going to be a lost cause. I'm unfortunately in a condo where roof mounting is not an option, and whatever I do mount needs to be relatively low-profile (hence the ClearStream4). Are those of us in the suburbs completely SOL on getting 7 and 9? No Lost, college football, and CBS NFL games is going to be painful. :\

SPORADIC E ALERT!!!

Watching KTBS-3 (night light service) in Shady Side, MD right now. I've also seen Springfield, MO and a station out of TX while flipping between channel 2 and 3.

Sadly, sporadic E DX won't work with ATSC in the future. I'll guess this will be one of the last times ever to play with these long-haul DX opportunities.

EDIT: Now I've got KPRC in Houston!!

Is the 15-2160 amplified?

Yes

YesIf you are really close to the WFPT-DT 62 tower off 270 (near the weigh station), you could be having issues their stronger signal. Is there anyway to test results with the amplifier bypassed, or with a different tuner?

I suppose I might as well try to get some free tech support here :)

As this TVFool plot shows (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d9f5a39cca5), I shouldn't have any issues pulling in all of the nearby stations and some not-so-nearby broadcasts. Yet I do. So far, 4, 5, 14, 20 and 22 have come in very well, with good reception from 32 and 66. If I move the antenna closer to the window, I can get 7 and 50. If I lean it right against the window, I can even get 9 and 26 to show up as well as they did a year ago.

The antenna in question is a Terk model I bought in 1996 or so as a backup to cable (can't be the same model after so many years, but it looks like the TV4 model listed on Audiovox's site (http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14202&langId=-1)). With that, I got all the big four networks, plus 20, 22, 26 and 50--and so had no problem telling readers "look, this works; I've seen what it can do in my own home with this antique antenna."

My home, in case any of this makes a difference, is a 1920 bungalow with walls that are mainly plaster-and-lath construction. It's about 280 feet above sea level, with large trees on most sides; starting about a half-mile to the north, there's a decent accumulation of 10 to 20-story buildings.

Any advice on what antenna I should try next? There is a Radio Shack downstairs from my office, so it's not like I'd have to go out of my way to test one antenna, then return it if it doesn't work.

Thanks...

- R

Rob,

I don't know how far out you are, but indoor reception of the VHF digital stations is almost impossible where I am located (even though I could receive a good picture on all of the VHF analogs before). Can you install an antenna outdoors or in an attic possibly?

If you must use an indoor antenna, make sure that you actually have movable and extendable/retractable dipoles for the VHF side of things. Those seem to work better in my experience and you don't need to spend a ton of money on something like that either. I wouldn't get one of the amplified rabbit ears as they just amplify all of the other noise in your home too. I bet the rabbit ears will work better if you turn off your computers while you're watching tv. My computers put out a lot of VHF interference.

Here's my radar plot:
http://www.tvfool.com/option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663d226d16c02c

I'd like to get as many digital stations as possible, but I also don't want to fool with a rotor.

My home is down a hill (but 90 ft above a river valley), though it looks like my view toward Washington is somewhat "around" the hill, at least I won't be pointing an antenna directly into the hill.
The link does not work. But you posted a tvfool link on June 12 that does work. You are 10 miles NW from WFPT 62, would not worry too much about overloading. Basically you have the DC stations at ~35 miles at 150 degrees, the Baltimore stations at 33 to 39 miles at 93 to 103 degrees, the Hagerstown stations at 37 miles to the west. Almost all stations are 2 edge. Not a easy recommendation.

If you go with a rooftop or outdoor antenna, you should get a rotator. If you can find the right aim, you might not have to use it much, but I don't see all the stations coming in at one aim. With a 50 to 60 degree spread between the DC and Baltimore stations, you could try a 4 bay bowtie for UHF and a medium range upper VHF antenna. The CM 4221 would have been my recommendation, but Channel Master has replaced it with the CM 4221HD with mixed results. The 4 bay bowties have a wide pickup in azimuth and can get stations at 40 to 50 miles. But you may need to go a 8 bay bowtie for more gain, however, avoid the new CM 4228 HD.

For upper VHF, a medium range upper VHF antenna is less directional than a long range model so it might allow you to get WWPX-DT on VHF 12, WJLA 7, WUSA 9 and may be 11 & 13 in Baltimore if they fix the power output for those 2 in your direction.

Links to check:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

I'm in Manassas, (~27 miles from most of the towers according to antennaweb) using a ClearStream4,
...
I guess my best option at this point is to get an upper VHF antenna and a signal combiner, but hearing that folks even much closer to DC are not able to get 7 and 9 is making me think it's going to be a lost cause. I'm unfortunately in a condo where roof mounting is not an option, and whatever I do mount needs to be relatively low-profile (hence the ClearStream4). Are those of us in the suburbs completely SOL on getting 7 and 9? No Lost, college football, and CBS NFL games is going to be painful. :\
Get a upper VHF antenna. See my last post for a link to the antennacraft model. Winegard used to sell a YA-6713 50" long upper VHF, but dropped it. Winegard still off the 100" long YA-1713. The Clearstream 4 is worse than rabbit ears for VHF 7 & 9, see the chart down the page at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html.

I have been able to get WJLA 7 and WUSA 9 since Friday even with a Silver Sensor at 16 miles from the upper floor, although I would not recommend it for that. WJLA is putting out respectable power at 30 kW, so it should not be that hard to get. I suspect the reception problems for 7 & 9 are due to a range of causes: multipath in the city, people using rabbit ears, people using amplified UHF/ rabbit ears indoor antennas with crappy amplifiers, and UHF antennas that are supposed to work for upper VHF, but only if the VHF signal is really strong. Hopefully WUSA 9 will increase their power to > 20 kW which should help, but no word if that is in the cards.

Rob,

You could also take a look at EV's thread on indoor antennas.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

Looks like ThisTV is broadcasting on 50.2 now with sound and picture. Same programming as 45.2.

BTW, my 4228 antenna is working fine in Columbia, MD picking up 7, 9, 11, 13, and all the UHF channels I care about. Much easier to get ION 66 now, and Mhz 30-1 thru 30-5 (on freq 24). Only problems are during the thunderstorms on 7-13, but sounds like that is to be expected on VHF.

Looks like ThisTV is broadcasting on 50.2 now with sound and picture. Same programming as 45.2.

BTW, my 4228 antenna is working fine in Columbia, MD picking up 7, 9, 11, 13, and all the UHF channels I care about. Much easier to get ION 66 now, and Mhz 30-1 thru 30-5 (on freq 24). Only problems are during the thunderstorms on 7-13, but sounds like that is to be expected on VHF.

My VHF-high reception has improved quite a bit since Friday. I think the stations have done a little tweaking. I can stay locked on fairly well now. On channel 7, I still get a tiny bit of breakups/pixelation every once in awhile.

50.2 looks good. Thanks for the tip jgantert.

I rescanned Friday evening and looped through all my channels and had no trouble at all getting CW50, but I apparently lost it by Saturday night when they showed the original Matthau "Pelham" (which I had scheduled to record). I'm still not picking it up.

I'm on 13th St NW in Columbia Heights, with a Winegard MS-1000 (that's the non-amplified variety) on the roof. I can see the CW50 tower from the roof, and I haven't had reception problems with the digital signal since my most recent trip to the roof to tweak it.

The good news is that I didn't lose WJLA or WUSA, and I didn't expect to pick them up very well with that antenna.

I also posted this in the "upcomming changes thread"


I just received a call back from a Level 2 Technician, in regards to my call on sunday to the FCC DTV call centre. Had a 45 minute conversation with the technician. Very understanding and helpful. Explained my situtiation, he himself is in a similar one, he was served by a network of translators that received an over the air analog signal, and also has suffered a loss of staions, since the translators now broadcast snow.

It was never the intent for people to have to upgrade or replace their outdoor antennas unless they were the incorrect band. If you received an analog channel you should be able to receive the digital signal.

They need people to report their problems to the DTV call centre and ask for a complaint form, fill it out and return it. They need to see what areas are having problems, so like WPVI they can examin and try and solve the problems.

I rescanned Friday evening and looped through all my channels and had no trouble at all getting CW50Have you tried re-scanning since Friday evening. You may need to give it another shot. I'm not sure what time Friday CW 50 transitioned.

I should have mentioned that I rescanned before posting the question. Also, if I leave the tuner there long enough I'll get a blip of signal before it drops again, so I know I'm on the right frequency. I've also looked at it using the HDHomerun config tool and it's doing a weird lock-unlock bounce thing.

There's a chance this is a problem with the HDHomerun itself. I've had a ticket open with Silicon Dust about problems receiving one other channel, so this might be a related problem.

I should have mentioned that I rescanned before posting the question. Also, if I leave the tuner there long enough I'll get a blip of signal before it drops again, so I know I'm on the right frequency. I've also looked at it using the HDHomerun config tool and it's doing a weird lock-unlock bounce thing.

There's a chance this is a problem with the HDHomerun itself. I've had a ticket open with Silicon Dust about problems receiving one other channel, so this might be a related problem.

My HDHomerun doesn't have as sensitive of a tuner as my television's tuner. Which version of the software are you running? I usually update to the latest beta release on a weekly basis.

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

This is a really good suggestion. I lost 7,9,11 and 13 after the transition, but after adding the above to my CM 4221 in the attic I was able to recover 7 and 9 very solidly and 13 marginally. Thanks.

FYI. Just noticed that WDCW has fired up there 50.2 Thistv subchannel, albeit with no audio or video. At least nothing my dtt901 can decode. They are transmitting PSIP info though. The current Thistv movie is something about drilling to the core of the earth to find a new species. Must be really dark/quiet down there.

WDCW 50.2 has been broadcasting the THIS TV Network for a couple of days now.

No problems in St.Mary's county Md. After a rescan I'm still solidly receiving both WJLA and WUSA at 75 to 80 % on both Dish 622's and a Samsung TV.

CM 4228 and 7777 amp, 51 miles, sea level.

WDCW 50.2 has been broadcasting the THIS TV Network for a couple of days now.
The WDCW 50.2 sub-channel was added on Monday or thereabouts, but was a blank screen for 2 days. There was guide data with listings, but no picture. They added the This TV feed sometime yesterday.

I have not seen any notable changes in WDCW reception since they flashed cut from 51 to 50 on Friday morning. The ERP dropped from 125 kW to 122 kW, but that is a tiny difference. The digital signal propagation behavior might have changed with the channel and antenna change. The WDCW maximization application to increase to 1000 kW has still not granted or dismissed by the FCC.

For those north and northeast of Baltimore, WPVI ABC 6 in Philly filed an STA yesterday to increase to 30.2 kW on VHF 6 which is a major increase from the current post-transition 7.6 kW. There are a lot of people who can't get WPVI since the flash rate since last Friday. The 30.2 kW is the rough equivalent of 90 kW digital on upper VHF. If WPVI 6 gets the power increase, with the lack of other competing full power VHF 6 stations, that signal may come in at night in favorable atmospheric conditions over a wide area. Might even cause occasional interference to WDCN-LP 6 in Arlington if WDCN ever broadcasts a video signal.

HI. I was looking for a little help. I live on the Eastern Shore in Easton, MD and before last Friday I was able to pick up just about every local digital station from both DC and Baltimore with a UHF antenna in my attic. 14 was hard to get and sometimes 50 would go out but the rest came in fine. I had the antenna pointed towards somewhere between Baltimore and DC and that allowed me to get all the channels. Since Friday I have switched from my UHF to a UHF/VHF antenna which is probably about 10 years old but has never been inside and no matter what I do I can't get 7 or 9. Also with the UHF/VHF antenna I don't get 26 or 32 like I did with the UHF. This far out and trying to pick up both DC and Baltimore I didn't know the best setup, to continue using my UHF and get a VHF only and combine them. Amplify them? I also pickup WBOC and the PBS station from Salisbury which is in the opposite direction of where my antenna is pointing but I can't seem to get WMDT, the ABC & CW station from Salisbury. Is there any way to have 2 UHF antennas pointed in opposite directions and somehow combine them into one? Because the antennas are in the attic I can't use any sort of rotater and would rather not have to run additional wires, switches, etc. and don't want an ugly antenna outside on the roof, picky huh? I get both 7 and 9 through cable so the only real reason I like them is because of the sub channels with radar, but maybe their signal just doesn't come this far anymore?

This is a really good suggestion. I lost 7,9,11 and 13 after the transition, but after adding the above to my CM 4221 in the attic I was able to recover 7 and 9 very solidly and 13 marginally. Thanks.

Similarly, I added the Y5-7-13 to my Clearstream4 with the AP-2870 preamp and now I get 7 & 9 in the 70% range from my attic in Fredericksburg (even through pretty heavy trees to boot). I am quite pleased and a little shocked - we'll see if it holds up. Thank you, Digital Rules, for the recommendations!

By the way, I assume the preamp is designed to go outside and can deal with significant heat but I am a little concerned with the extreme heat in the attic (even with an attic fan).

Get a upper VHF antenna. See my last post for a link to the antennacraft model. Winegard used to sell a YA-6713 50" long upper VHF, but dropped it. Winegard still off the 100" long YA-1713. The Clearstream 4 is worse than rabbit ears for VHF 7 & 9, see the chart down the page at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html.

I have been able to get WJLA 7 and WUSA 9 since Friday even with a Silver Sensor at 16 miles from the upper floor, although I would not recommend it for that. WJLA is putting out respectable power at 30 kW, so it should not be that hard to get. I suspect the reception problems for 7 & 9 are due to a range of causes: multipath in the city, people using rabbit ears, people using amplified UHF/ rabbit ears indoor antennas with crappy amplifiers, and UHF antennas that are supposed to work for upper VHF, but only if the VHF signal is really strong. Hopefully WUSA 9 will increase their power to > 20 kW which should help, but no word if that is in the cards.

Thats great information, thanks. I'm a little miffed now about the fact that the CS4 is advertised to have VHF cabilities. It seems they are so minimal that anybody buying a CS4 isn't going to be close enough to towers to pick up the VHF signals anyways. We'll see what an upper VHF antenna can do for me!

As far as UHF - in theory the CS4 should be plenty of antenna for my distance (~27 miles), but NBC4, WETA, and CW can all be fickle from time to time. Normal signal strength reported by the EyeTV software I'm using is around 60% for all three - enough to get a steady picture most of the time, but not much room for error. FOX, CBS, and ABC were always reliably above 70% before the switch. I'm assuming that any problems I'm having are due to the fact that I'm only able to mount the CS4 about 6 feet off the ground on the fence behind my condo. I guess an amplifier won't help me here, since I should already have plenty of gain in the antenna? Does anyone know if getting a taller mast, say to get it 10 or 12 feet of the ground, is likely to make much difference in my signal? Also, is there any way to know if an amplifier would help, or is it pretty much just try-it-and-see-what-happens?

WJZ's emergency request to boost power to 27.5 kW on the omni was granted today. Wonder how long it will take to go on the air.

- Trip

WJZ's emergency request to boost power to 27.5 kW on the omni was granted today. Wonder how long it will take to go on the air.

- TripGood news!! Is there any chance that WBAL will ever be allowed to raise their power? When there are thunderstorms around, that measly 5kw signal just doesn't cut it. I thought it was solid till this morning.:(