It can't hurt for them to ask, but so far, no action. I'm glued to the FCC site, checking every hour or so for new filings.

- Trip

WJZ's emergency request to boost power to 27.5 kW on the omni was granted today. Wonder how long it will take to go on the air.

Why would they want to transmit a solid signal omnidirectional signal for just a few weeks? That makes zero sense. Everyone will be thrilled when they can receive the 27.5 kW powerhouse only for some to become disappointed again in July when WJZ-DT goes permanently directional. I understand that the viewers in the west and northwest will be affected negatively by the directional pattern. Anyone have a link to the proposed directional pattern?

Arrgh! MPT started to stretch SD content. They must have done this as part of the digital switchover.It started a little before then, but yeah. They're not doing it consistently, though. One interesting thing about it: I now know that Fios' channel 22 is being center-cut from MPT-HD, because the same stretching appears there.

It makes perfect sense. WJZ is trying to figure out if the higher power fixes the problem without having to swap antennas. If it doesn't, they might try to do something else rather than doing all the work just to find they have to do it again.

Plus, it fixes the problem for most of its viewers NOW rather than having to wait.

- Trip

Why would they want to transmit a solid signal omnidirectional signal for just a few weeks? That makes zero sense. Everyone will be thrilled when they can receive the 27.5 kW powerhouse only for some to become disappointed again in July when WJZ-DT goes permanently directional. I understand that the viewers in the west and northwest will be affected negatively by the directional pattern. Anyone have a link to the proposed directional pattern?
I think WJZ 13 is trying to improve reception right away for those at closer range and those to the east, south, northeast who will benefit from the final 28.8 kW directional pattern when they switch to the new antenna. It might also buy time for those to the west to get better VHF antennas. However, I can not reliably get WJZ 13 now with a upper VHF antenna in the attic and the power in my direction will go back to around 10 kW with the new antenna.

There are now multiple entries, but the FCC data records for WJZ are at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=25455. Scroll down to Service designation: DT at 28.8 kW, construction permit. Check the directional polar plot (ouch). The service contour map for the directional antenna is at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1237603.html. The map is really optimistic to the west.

I have not seen any STA filings yet from WBAL 11 or WUSA 9. Both of them, especially WBAL, a poster child for inadequate upper VHF power assignments, could use to increase their power.

Thanks Trip and affigat for the replies. I already saw that map at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1237603.html. I thought that I was looking at a non-directional plot.

Trip, you are correct. If the 27.5 kW non-directional pattern fixes the problem then maybe the FCC will allow WJZ-DT to keep it permanently and allow WJZ-DT to scrap the directional antenna. For the next several weeks, the FCC can field test monitor the temporary 27.5 kW non-directional output and see how it affects others and use it as a basis to help decide what to do about the rest of the DTV stations having problems using upper VHF.

Basically you have the DC stations at ~35 miles at 150 degrees, the Baltimore stations at 33 to 39 miles at 93 to 103 degrees, the Hagerstown stations at 37 miles to the west. Almost all stations are 2 edge. Not a easy recommendation.

[...]

If you go with a rooftop or outdoor antenna, you should get a rotator. If you can find the right aim, you might not have to use it much, but I don't see all the stations coming in at one aim. With a 50 to 60 degree spread between the DC and Baltimore stations, you could try a 4 bay bowtie for UHF and a medium range upper VHF antenna. The CM 4221 would have been my

Thanks! Yes, it is still me trying to figure out the best setup going in so I don't have to tinker too much down the road.

Here is a new link from TV Fool -
http://http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618af1b3310a15 (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618af1b3310a15)

It is probably very similar to the one from the other day, but has one significant change. I went outside and estimated the height of the peak of my roof today (32' above average ground level), then I plugged in 42' for AGL in the TV Fool calculator figuring I will use a 10-12' mast which I have confirmed code will allow in my county.

It makes the reception look a little better.

Rather than use a rotator, I think I'll try first for the DC stations with a single antenna or one VHF and one UHF plus a combiner. It looks like I should pick up 7 stations all on the same compass heading, including all the major networks.

Down the line I might add a rotator or just another antenna to try for Baltimore stations, the real benefit would be for seeing different games when the NFL season picks back up.

I've read the primer and checked out the Y5-7-13. Based on the TV Fool results, it looks like the 5-7-13 should have enough gain, but I am worried about the terrain and still searching for a Hi-VHF with higher gain (without getting into the 12+ foot long horizontal models... I don't mind putting up several antennas but those really long ones look harder to work with and more likely to come down in an ice storm.)

An 8 bay for UHF would seem to give me some insurance / wiggle room against dropouts but it's unfortunate about the newer CM antennas performing so poorly. These are two I found that seem to fit the bill but one is not on the HDTV Primer graph and the other (the Winegard) has a different model number and I'm wondering if it could face the same problem as the newer CMs.

http://http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD-8800 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD-8800)
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=U8000

Boy, that was fast. WJZ 13 has increased their power, although I don't know if they are at the specified 27.5 kW STA yet. May still be tweaking the transmitters. I am now getting WJZ 13, but with some dropouts. Moving the upper VHF antenna might fix that. There was a scroll on the screen stating they have increased power and if you know someone who has been unable to get WJZ, let them know and tell them to do a rescan.

I'm also looking at the Winegard HD 7698P. I don't see it mentioned often here, but it looks like a good 1 antenna solution, getting about 10 dBi Hi-VHF and 12+ dBi for UHF.

It's gain ramps up to 14 dBi at RF channel 48 which is the weakest of the major networks in DC from my area of Frederick.

Boy, that was fast. WJZ 13 has increased their power, although I don't know if they are at the specified 27.5 kW STA yet. May still be tweaking the transmitters. I am now getting WJZ 13, but with some dropouts. Moving the upper VHF antenna might fix that. There was a scroll on the screen stating they have increased power and if you know someone who has been unable to get WJZ, let them know and tell them to do a rescan.

Yay! Out of curiosity, can anyone venture a guess when/if the change would show up in TVFool information? They pull from the FCC's database but I have no idea (hope someone here does) if a temporary increase enters the same database that TVFool pulls from.

Boy, that was fast. WJZ 13 has increased their power, although I don't know if they are at the specified 27.5 kW STA yet. May still be tweaking the transmitters. I am now getting WJZ 13, but with some dropouts. Moving the upper VHF antenna might fix that. There was a scroll on the screen stating they have increased power and if you know someone who has been unable to get WJZ, let them know and tell them to do a rescan.
Haven't seen the scroll, but I was thinking they probably had increased power, because the difference between 11 and 13 seems to have increased. But if they've announced it on air, I would think they've done all they're going to do for now.

I wonder if the FCC will require WJZ to provide on-air notice to western viewers who will lose signal if/when they do switch to the directional pattern.


WIAV-LP in College Park, MD. What kind of signal are you receiving? I get a snowy color picture in Olney about 11 miles NNW.
Oh, nothing anywhere near that good, ever. In Fairfax, VA, I get a barely detectable picture and that's about it. On rare occasions I might here a little sound, but I could never make out a station ID unless it filled the whole screen in huge letters. W58DK Ruckersville was better with an attic antenna that WIAV has ever been with the roof antenna.


WMPT-DT 22 comes in better without rotating since they raised their power, so it's not too bad. You can see the tower from 24 here when the leaves are off the trees.
WMPT was back to its old signal levels here early in the week, especially during the cooler, rainy periods. This evening it's up again, but so is everything else. Because it's off-axis, I'm thinking it might be more susceptible to wet leaves on the trees than some of the other stations, but I don't know. Has it been confirmed that they are and have been operating at their increased power?

I'm also having problems with 11 and 13 when it rains, at least some of the time. I suspect I've got a leaky balun. I've had problems on low band for several years when it rains, but with analog high band seemed unaffected, and I never cared anyway, because the UHF digital versions were solid. VHF digitals are apparently more vulnerable.

Otoh, today's thunderstorms increased signal levels across the board, so 11 and 13 held up fine even when analog 4 did its usual rainy day thing. So more data is still needed.


What's weird is that I still have to rotate the antenna about 20 degrees east of Baltimore to get RF 38 to come in. I thought that would not be the case when RF 39 went dark???
Possibly a 34-36 beat on 38? I think I have an advantage in that DC is about 15 degrees east of Baltimore here and I'm several miles farther away than you are. So I've always kept the antenna aimed pretty squarely at TVHill in Baltimore.


Nice DX catches from Philly!! I haven't ever gotten any digital DX from the northeast, but see NC on a rare occasion. Do you see WHAG-DT 25 from your location? I thought it would be better here since WWPB-DT 31 was solid even at 209kw. The HD picture on WHAG is about the best I've seen. Not having subchannels does make a difference!!
Too much overload from DC in the northeast for you?

Northeast is the best direction for me. Back in the 70s and 80s, I did DX Tidewater quite a bit, occasionally saw eastern NC and I think even SC once or twice. Richmond is fairly common, but the terrain here slopes up to the South, so I've rarely seen the sort of clear pictures from there that I've often seen from Philly. I have picked up WTVR-DT with an attic antenna, but WWBT was never strong enough on 54 to override WNUV, and I never checked Richmond tropo after WNUV signed off in February.

I also had a weak but stable signal from WHSV-3 in Harrisonburg, and W58DK Ruckersville and it's predecessors on 49 and 41, before WHSV-DT and WHTJ-41 analog signed on. And I could often get faint traces of WVIR-29 analog in recent years with the attic 4-bay that I use for WNVT in Goldvein.

The northwest is not a good direction here at all, for some reason. I've never anything more than very snowy pix from 25, 31, 60, or 68, even with the roof antenna pointed in that direction. I doubt I could see any digital from there and I've never really looked.

Also, there's never seems to be much tropo boost in any westerly direction. I've seen WTAJ Altoona once in 35 years, Roanoke signals once or twice maybe, and WGHP High Point NC once. And all of those catches were very faint.

But to the northeast I have a downhill slope, and over the years I've seen everything from here to Boston at one time or other in analog. Best digital DX was WHDH Boston a few years back, which boomed in here for several hours one morning, overriding both Philly and Annapolis.

I also did pretty well DXing NYC digitals one summer, years ago. WCBS and WNYW locked for several hours on more than one occasion. I had a signal on 28 that I think was WNBC but it never decoded. WPIX flashed in once just long enough to see the PSIP. And WABC-DT was snowing up WBFF pretty regularly in the early September mornings that year.

But then all that came to a very sudden end. I can't recall locking any NYC digitals since, and channel 45 was never that snowy again until WBFF signed off for good.

My HDHomerun doesn't have as sensitive of a tuner as my television's tuner. Which version of the software are you running? I usually update to the latest beta release on a weekly basis.

I'm now running the most recent beta (dated yesterday) with the same problem. I've had mystifying problems with WTTG-DT for a long time that finally came down to the HDHomerun's inability to stay tuned to it (diagnosed after a trip to the roof with the laptop and a different receiver, plus new terminations on every cable and a replacement antenna-mount preamp). As far as I can tell, whatever hardware problem it has staying locked onto WTTG-DT also affects WDCW.

I filed a ticket with Silicon Dust a few weeks ago about the WTTG problem and they'll replace it for me as soon as I can locate my receipt, which is easier said than done.

As for sensitivity, I've tuned the gain on the preamp for best reception on the HDHR, which is located where the drop enters my apartment. There are two much longer runs to both TVs, and if I watch live (*shudder*) I have to tweak the gain a little for certain stations. I'm pretty sure, however, that the problems on WTTG and (now) WDCW aren't signal strength related.

I am using a 30' high chimney mounted Channel Master CM-3679 VHF/UHF antenna with a CM-3418 8-way distribution amplifier. I can receive reliably a minimum of 85 and up to a maximum of 100+ on every single DTV station in the Washington-Baltimore region. Channel 11 and 13 will most of the time usually peak at 100. Still, I cannot raise a blip out of Hagerstown. Yet, WFPT-DT-62 in that same direction in Frederick on 28 UHF comes in at 98 or better.

Just a few minutes ago, I received WBOC-HD and SD from Salisbury, MD, some 85 miles away. What is strange is that WBOC-HD mapped to 16.1 like it would be expected to but the SD channel mapped to 21.2. I guess they have a PSIP issue.

What I miss the most about analog television is that analog reception was an excellent barometer and lead indicator for what kind of tropo was available. If I could receive Philadelphia or Richmond on analog then I knew that the DTV counterparts were available. I do miss analog because it was so forgiving. Digital is not forgiving at all. A couple of degrees of rotation in an outdoor antenna can cause a digital channel to literally drop off the cliff. A partial analog signal was snowy but viewable. A partial digital signal is for all intents and purposes non-existent.

I don't know how old you guys are but my late Dad bought our first television in June 1949, a 16-inch wonder. WMAL-TV7 began its broadcast day at 2:00 PM. WTOP-TV9, WNBW-TV4, and WTTG-TV5 started around the same time or an hour later. We had four reliable channels living in Hyattsville, MD. UHF didn't exist. Baltimore reception was snow. That's exactly 60 years to the month for me for analog. Now its all gone and not necessarily for the better.

Has anyone else lost TBS HD on FiOS (552)? We're not getting it on any STB... since about Tuesday.

TBS HD on FiOS 552 fine here.

Just a few minutes ago, I received WBOC-HD and SD from Salisbury, MD, some 85 miles away. What is strange is that WBOC-HD mapped to 16.1 like it would be expected to but the SD channel mapped to 21.2. I guess they have a PSIP issue.21.2 is the correct mapping for FOX 21.

... Since Friday I have switched from my UHF to a UHF/VHF antenna which is probably about 10 years old but has never been inside and no matter what I do I can't get 7 or 9. Also with the UHF/VHF antenna I don't get 26 or 32 like I did with the UHF. This far out and trying to pick up both DC and Baltimore I didn't know the best setup, to continue using my UHF and get a VHF only and combine them. Amplify them? I also pickup WBOC and the PBS station from Salisbury which is in the opposite direction of where my antenna is pointing but I can't seem to get WMDT, the ABC & CW station from Salisbury. Is there any way to have 2 UHF antennas pointed in opposite directions and somehow combine them into one? ...
To point UHF antennas in opposite directions, they should be identical antennas, vertically stacked one over the other, and the co-axial cable length from the splitter to both antennas should be identical. Even with that, it is tricky to combine multiple antennas on the same band without filters. What UHF antenna do you have?

A 4 bay bowtie can get stations in opposite directions, even better with the back screen removed. I just did this to my CM 4221 4 Bay to try to get WHAG 25 to the NW with the antenna aimed to the east. It is working fine on WHAG, but now I am getting dropouts on WUTB 24 and the weaker & long range Baltimore stations. Removing the back screen loses 3 dB to the front.

If you were getting better results with the UHF antenna for the UHF stations, switch back to it. You could look at getting a upper VHF antenna and combine them with a VHF/UHF combiner. With all the recommendations for upper VHF antennas, I hope solidsignal and warrenelectronics stocked up ahead of the transition on VHF antennas!

Yay! Out of curiosity, can anyone venture a guess when/if the change would show up in TVFool information? They pull from the FCC's database but I have no idea (hope someone here does) if a temporary increase enters the same database that TVFool pulls from.
Doubt that Andy.S.Lee would try to deal with the short lived STAs. You could ask him to add the temporary ERP for WJZ 13, but it is expected to go away in 3? weeks when the new directional antenna is installed. Don't know if CBS is looking to keep the 27.5 kW omni-directional broadcast. They presumably have already brought the new antenna and broadcast antennas are not cheap.

Well, I tried out my old HDTVo, which has much better VHF performance. With that I get 7 and 9 just fine, but 4 and 5 are borderline and 20,26, and 50 completely out. Is there a chance I could use the HDTVo & and my ClearStream4 with a combiner? Or will something be whacky because I'm running a VHF/UHF into the VHF side, and a VHF/UHF into the UHF side? The only catch is that the HDTVo has a built-in amp, and obviously I would have to leave the power supply out of the picture in this case.

Is there a chance I could use the HDTVo & and my ClearStream4 with a combiner? Or will something be whacky because I'm running a VHF/UHF into the VHF side, and a VHF/UHF into the UHF side? The only catch is that the HDTVo has a built-in amp, and obviously I would have to leave the power supply out of the picture in this case.You can combine the 2 antennas with a UVSJ. It isolates the 2 bands so you can take full advantage of both antennas strengths. The UVSJ will also allow power to pass on the VHF side, so you should be able to use the amp if needed.

I drove by TV Hill this evening to check out WJZ's and WMAR's new antennas - here's a picture. WJZ's is the larger one (it's a lower frequency, which has a longer wavelength, so the antenna is larger).

Cheers -

Looks like their power increase means I can get WJZ again, well at least during the night. I am getting about 53% on the signal strength on TIVO HD from a channel master 4221 and an amp.

Looks like their power increase means I can get WJZ again, well at least during the night. I am getting about 53% on the signal strength on TIVO HD from a channel master 4221 and an amp.

WJZ is now my strongest VHF channel by a long shot! Before WJZ boosted their power, I was barely able to keep it locked. Now, it's rock solid and registering 98% signal on my Sony TV's diagnostic screen. In addition, I can now receive it with my antenna pointed in almost any direction.

7, 9, and 11 are still touchy. I have to be aimed dead on to receive them and still receive occasional pixelation.

I'm receiving WTVR and WRLH out of Richmond tonight fairly well. Still zero signal for WWBT-12. Previous to last Friday, I could pick them up easily on RF54.

I now receive the following channels (listed by RF channel): WJLA-7, WUSA-9, WBAL-11, WJZ-13, WFDC-15, WBOC-21, WNVC-24, WETA-27, MPT28, MPT29, WNVT-30, WHUT-33, WPXW-34, WDCA-35, WTTG-36, WMAR-38, WNUV-40, WMPT-42, WBFF-46, WMDT-47, WRC-48, and WDCW-50. During tropo (which happens often since I'm near the Bay), I can also receive WPVI-6, WGAL-8, WHYY-12, WPHL-17, WTVR-25, WTVE-25, KYW-26, WGTW-27, WVBT-29, WAVY-31, and WPSG-32.

This afternoon, I picked up analog night light KPRC out of Houston, TX for the second day in a row via Sporadic E. That's only 1243 miles!

WJZ-DT is 5x5 here.

is anybody else having issues with channel 9 right now.

Wow, finally a respectable signal on WJZ, and no sub channels to boot!! Nothing beats low compression 1080i!! What is WBAL waiting for????? I would think they would have been the first in line to fix this train wreck.

I still can't believe the FCC thought that these anemic power assignments would be sufficient. Many here had raised doubts about this way before the transition. I thought the folks at the FCC were supposed to be the experts.:confused:

is anybody else having issues with channel 9 right now.

Nope, 9 is coming in about the same that it has all week (weak but watchable).

I'm 30 miles out.

is anybody else having issues with channel 9 right now.No issues here, but only 4 miles away.

Wow, finally a respectable signal on WJZ, and no sub channels to boot!! Nothing beats low compression 1080i!! What is WBAL waiting for????? I would think they would have been the first in line to fix this train wreck.

I still can't believe the FCC thought that these anemic power assignments would be sufficient. Many here had raised doubts about this way before the transition. I thought the folks at the FCC were supposed to be the experts.:confused:

WFLA-DT down in Tampa has been broadcasting on VHF channel 7 for a long time. I'm surprised that no one complained about that channel before now (unless they were at a decent power level all along). WFLA may have had an advantage of a 2000' tower above very flat land.

I guess that no testing could be done here since every VHF slot was still analog and on the air until June 12th. You would have thought that some late night testing would have been done by someone though.

I'm sure the FCC's math and propagation modeling looked good on paper. There are so many variables that can put a crimp in those results though. ATSC is still touchy even after many tuner enhancements. Since June 12th, my father in Western NC has lost NBC, CBS, and Fox permanently. DTV and mountains don't get along too well.

At 23kw, I never thought Martinsburg WV's WWPX-DT 60 (RF12) was suffiicient, even for 65 miles. I would think something closer to 30kw should be the norm to replicate what 316kw of analog would do.

The interference from electrical storms really affects the signal after 30 or so miles. The receiving antenna, no matter how good, cannot correct this. Only higher transmitter power can minimize it's effects. How in the world can anyone expect VHF-LO to ever work for DTV if VHF-HI is so susceptible to interference??? Thank god we didn't get stuck with any channels lower than 7.

I thought the folks at the FCC were supposed to be the experts.:confused:

They focused more on interference concerns than coverage concerns. I can't really fault them for that, even if it was a poor move. The logic they probably used is that you can't see interference in digital like you can in analog, so you'd want to make sure you didn't have any excess interference if at all possible. And they did that without factoring in coverage closer in.

What makes me mad is the way the politicians who actually run the FCC these days were all patting each other on the back over a "job well-done" before noon on June 12, as though it was all over with and finished.

Thank god we didn't get stuck with any channels lower than 7.

Yes, lucky you. =/

- Trip

At 23kw, I never thought Martinsburg WV's WWPX-DT 60 (RF12) was suffiicient, even for 65 miles. I would think something closer to 30kw should be the norm to replicate what 316kw of analog would do.

The interference from electrical storms really affects the signal after 30 or so miles. The receiving antenna, no matter how good, cannot correct this. Only higher transmitter power can minimize it's effects. How in the world can anyone expect VHF-LO to ever work for DTV if VHF-HI is so susceptible to interference??? Thank god we didn't get stuck with any channels lower than 7.

I have been watching WPVI-6 out of Philly for several nights now. It's actually more solid that I thought it would be.

I hear people in Philly can't pick it up too well though. Many people have rabbit ears in urban areas, however. Rabbit ears aren't really optimized for that long of a wavelength and indoor electrical interference must wreck the signal too.

How in the world can anyone expect VHF-LO to ever work for DTV if VHF-HI is so susceptible to interference??? Thank god we didn't get stuck with any channels lower than 7.

In all fairness to the FCC, the FCC tried their darndest to discourage stations from returning to VHF-LO, but the stations insisted and persisted. Finally because the FCC couldn't legally prohibit assignments for Channels 2 through 6, they relented. WPVI-DT was one of those stations which insisted on returning to Channel 6. Not only did WPVI get what they wanted but they got more than they bargained for.

WMPT was back to its old signal levels here early in the week, especially during the cooler, rainy periods. This evening it's up again, but so is everything else. Because it's off-axis, I'm thinking it might be more susceptible to wet leaves on the trees than some of the other stations, but I don't know. Has it been confirmed that they are and have been operating at their increased power?

It looks like WMPT 22 reduced power on Thursday. Has anybody else noticed this? Does anybody know what is going on there, power wise?

I wish MHz TV would put Euronews on the channel 24 signal. I can barely receive 30 out of Goldvein. I used to watch Euronews via analog satellite when I was stationed in Europe in the 90s. In addition, MHz should insert Eurosport into their lineup. I could sit and watch some of the strange (but very entertaining) content on that channel for hours.

I haven't checked my signal strength in a few days. I now see that everything is coming in much stronger than last Saturday.

I still don't get 7 and 9. Just waiting on my Y5-7-13 to get here from Solid Signal. 11 and 13 are coming in strong from my Attic mounted DB4.

I also noticed WJZ had a scrolling ticker. Basically said that they increased their power and to tell your friends that are no longer receiving WJZ. I am due west of the tower so I might suffer when they go directional.

They focused more on interference concerns than coverage concerns.
Oh, no, no, no. That's waaay too generous.

What they focused on was interference from other TV stations, both co-channel and adjacent channel.

But as far as I can tell, the FCC gave no consideration at all to the general ambient interference/noise that is common on VHF these days in many urban and suburban areas.

I mean, seriously, I haven't seen pure 3 degree background noise on VHF in YEARS. What I see when no TV signals are present is snow riddled with interference patterns from somebody's microprocessor, or leaky monitor, or god knows what from god knows where. I've ruled out everything in my house but this stuff could be coming from anywhere, and I just can't run around to all the neighbors and ask what they've got that's generating noise on my TVs.

A few years ago I picked up an FM signal from a gym about three blocks away that was using some kind of wireless device to serve it customers while they used the treadmills. And there was some kind of intermittent herringbone on channel 13 for a couple of years or so a few years back. Thank god that went away or I probably wouldn't be seeing WJZ even at the higher power level. Then there medical telemetry near hospitals and, really, countless other sources of interference plaguing VHF these days. It's definitely worse on low band, but high band really isn't quiet, either.

Now I suppose the FCC could send field engineers out to chase all this stuff down on a case by case basis, but they could spend forever doing that, and the taxpayer has to pay for it. So really and truly, if you want to use VHF, and we're clearly stuck with in the band-crowded big cities, the only effective solution is to crank up the power and try to drown the noise out.

The $64K question in my mind is will the FCC's future rulings on WSD be informed by this experience or will they just barrel ahead with their theories on that as well?

I have been watching WPVI-6 out of Philly for several nights now. It's actually more solid that I thought it would be.

I hear people in Philly can't pick it up too well though. Many people have rabbit ears in urban areas, however. Rabbit ears aren't really optimized for that long of a wavelength and indoor electrical interference must wreck the signal too.
Roof antennas also offer the advantage of favoring horizontally polarized TV signals over randomly polarized noise.

Oh, no, no, no. That's waaay too generous.

What they focused on was interference from other TV stations, both co-channel and adjacent channel.

But as far as I can tell, the FCC gave no consideration at all to the general ambient interference/noise that is common on VHF these days in many urban and suburban areas.

I mean, seriously, I haven't seen pure 3 degree background noise on VHF in YEARS. What I see when no TV signals are present is snow riddled with interference patterns from somebody's microprocessor, or leaky monitor, or god knows what from god knows where. I've ruled out everything in my house but this stuff could be coming from anywhere, and I just can't run around to all the neighbors and ask what they've got that's generating noise on my TVs.

One of my sources of VHF interference is from Comcast's leaky lines in my neighborhood. It would be a bad business decision for Comcast to fix this though! They can't have people getting free high-definition/digital over-the-air TV in a neighborhood wired for cable! I'm only kidding, but I can only imagine how many frustrated OTA viewers have probably subscribed to satellite or cable this week in markets with VHF DTV channels.

In case you're wondering, I have filled out the proper FCC complaint form. It's been a couple of months and the lines are still leaky. I guess the neighbors really close to the leak are able to watch the analog cable channels on their portable TVs.

Speaking of interference from within the house, when I was at my in-laws setting up their CECB, I discovered that when I turned on the Shop-Vac, the VHF-Hi station they were watching pixalated and went out.

Looks like some CECB's need an A/C line filter.

I have a DirecTV HR-20 that has the OTA channels pre-selected in such a way that no scanning is supposed to be required. For some reason, the only new channel that I'm seeing is 7-2 and 30-6 thru 30-10. Neither 7-1 nor 7-3 was remapped to from RF39 to RF7, and 30-1 thru 30-5 was not remapped to RF30 to RF24. Likewise, neither 9-1 nor 9-2 were remapped from RF34 to RF9.

I also have an older HR-10 that requires the OTA channels to be rescanned. Channels 7 and 9 both rescanned just fine. It also found RF24 and mapped those those channels to 30-1 thru 30-5 correctly. However, it didn't know what to do with 30-6 thru 30-10 that it discovered.

We having fun yet?

Since last week I was able to rescan the HR-10, and reset the off-air settings of HR-20. Both now have full-up ATSC 7 and 9. However, I'm still not sure either guide knows to look for 30-1 thru 30-5 on RF24 yet. 30-6 thru 30-10 are fine on RF30, but still, only the HR-10 is able to show 30-1 thru 30-5 as the result of an RF scan. I'll wait til a nice bit of early evening ducting occurs in July/August to hunt for the rest.

I've also read some of the issues that people are having because of VHF. Keep in mind some of us out in the back 40 (in a valley with heavy foliage no less) can't do UHF well at all, so VHF is the only reliable mode for the widest area. Its says my location is Remington, but this is really a pin prick on the map called Lakota. Eventually these stations will realize that they will need to adjust their patterns and power levels accordingly. I would also think that adding VHF to those UHF-only antennas would be wise. How many people really got stung, buying a DTV-ready antenna that was UHF-only?

Just and FYI. I live by the mountain in York county pa. 58 miles from the transmitters in Baltimore. I have a low signal (all the time)on channel 11 and 13 (around 61). I use an attic mounted antenna direct 91 with no preamp. Going to be adding a vhf only in the next few weeks.

I drove by TV Hill this evening to check out WJZ's and WMAR's new antennas - here's a picture. WJZ's is the larger one (it's a lower frequency, which has a longer wavelength, so the antenna is larger).

Cheers -

I dont think they work well like that...

How many people really got stung, buying a DTV-ready antenna that was UHF-only?
You may be surprised.

I remember reading this forum a few years back and a lot of people (professional and self installs) were installing new UHF only antennas because that's how they were told the new HD channels were going to be broadcast. Would be curious to go back to some of the old threads and see how many times it was said that 'you only need a UHF antenna to receive OTA HD broadcasts'.

What's the deal with Baltimore's Channel 24 digital reception? I live in Anne Arundel County just south of BWI Airport. I have an attic mounted UHF antenna pointed in the direction of TV Hill. Before the cutover, I could get the analog channel 24 on a simple UHF loop. But their digital signal has gone from OK to non-watchable (which probably tracked the growth of leaves on the surrounding trees). I was hoping that after the cutover that they would increase power or realign their DTV transmissions. But nothing has changed. On the other hand, I do get WMAR channel 2, WRC 4, WTTG 5, WBAL 11, WJZ 13, WMPT 22, WETA 26, WBFF 45, WNUV 54, and ION 66. WMAR has had the most change for the positive since the cutover - they used to be marginal but now their signal strength is great (I heard they took over WJZ's UHF xmitter). WBAL and WJZ went downhill on signal but with WJZ looks much better as of last night with their increased power. (Yes I do realize that I'm running a UHF antenna so I have no right to complain about VHF problems!). I also realize that 2, 11, 13, 45, and 54 are on TV Hill but channel 24 is slightly further to the west in Catonsville. Is UHF that directional? After all I'm getting WMPT 22 which is 180 degrees behind the direction in which my antenna is pointed and WETA which is about 240 degrees off. Thanks...

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WUTB-DT has a highly directional antenna that puts almost no power to the south, so if you're south of their transmitter, you're likely not seeing much of anything.

- Trip

Is UHF that directional?WUTB-DT 24 (RF 41) is using a hightly directiuonal antenna pattern that limits it's power to areas due south of Baltimore.

This is required by the FCC to protect adjacent channel WMPT-DT 22 (RF42) from interference. You may be getting a more potent signal from WMPT, just east of Crofton, since they raised their power recently.

It looks like WUTB has in fact has already increased their power ouput. The old entry for 209kw has been removed from the FCC database.

***Ooops, Trip beat me to it !!

What's the deal with Baltimore's Channel 24 digital reception? I live in Anne Arundel County just south of BWI Airport. I have an attic mounted UHF antenna pointed in the direction of TV Hill.
As Trip posted, WUTB-DT 24 has a highly directional antenna pattern. They have interference issues on UHF 41 that they did not have on analog 24. WUTB-DT has been running at 200 kW, but filed a maximization application to increase to 290 kW last year. Checking the FCC database, WUTB now has a construction permit for the 290 kW, so the FCC must have granted their application recently. Don't know if WUTB is still at 200 kW or if they have or will soon increase to 290 kW. I can get WUTB-DT 24 in Sterling, but it is on the weak side compared to WMAR, WBFF, WNUV in Baltimore.

However, an increase to 290 kW is not likely to help that much to those located in the deep notches of the antenna pattern. To see the antenna pattern, go to http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=60552, scroll down to channel 42, digital, Construction permit, Effective Radiated Power: 290 kW. Click on the Relative Field Polar Plot to see just how directional the antenna pattern is.

To get My Network programming in HD (or what is left of My Network programming), work on getting WDCA My 20 which is operating at 500 kW on UHF 35 in NW DC.

However, an increase to 290 kW is not likely to help that much to those located in the deep notches of the antenna pattern.
IIRC, the 200Kw was at a lower height. For fringe viewers, the increase in height would make more difference than the power increase.

To point UHF antennas in opposite directions, they should be identical antennas, vertically stacked one over the other, and the co-axial cable length from the splitter to both antennas should be identical. Even with that, it is tricky to combine multiple antennas on the same band without filters. What UHF antenna do you have?

A 4 bay bowtie can get stations in opposite directions, even better with the back screen removed. I just did this to my CM 4221 4 Bay to try to get WHAG 25 to the NW with the antenna aimed to the east. It is working fine on WHAG, but now I am getting dropouts on WUTB 24 and the weaker & long range Baltimore stations. Removing the back screen loses 3 dB to the front.

If you were getting better results with the UHF antenna for the UHF stations, switch back to it. You could look at getting a upper VHF antenna and combine them with a VHF/UHF combiner. With all the recommendations for upper VHF antennas, I hope solidsignal and warrenelectronics stocked up ahead of the transition on VHF antennas!


Thanks for the info. I have a 4 bay bowtie antenna that I had been using. Last night I stopped at Radio Shack and picked up this antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3537124) I put it in a second floor attic, not over the second floor where it would be permanently mounted and started moving it around. Nothing I did would pick up channel 7 or 9. Channel 4 came in much stronger when it was pointed towards Baltimore and it picked up 16, 28, and 47 from Salisbury while pointed in the opposite direction. When I started moving it around I was actually able to pick up Channel 12, WHYY from Philly.

Would an amp help at all to get 7 and/or 9? Right now the antenna is only hooked up to 1 TV, probably 40 foot of RG6 in-between.

I also picked up WJZ 13 here in Forestville at 45-50%. So now the only channels that I am without are WBAL 11 and WUTB 24. Also, WBOC has been strong for the past week. Two questions:

1.) Why do we still have analog 47? If this were off the air I would have picked up WMDT from Salisbury this morning. The signal was fluctuating between 10 and 40.

2.) Why can't MPT move their digital signal back to 22? This would eliminate the interference issues with WUTB.

Many thanks for the information. I had not seen this polar plot before and now its quite apparent why I can barely receive their signal. It sure would be nice if they had a bit more power to the southeast but all-in-all if I had to chose I'd rather have a good signal from WMPT 22 PBS than from WUTB 24 but once in a while I do have a need for a rerun of Everyone Loves Raymond! :)

I updated the numbers on the initial post of this thread. Please proofread and let me know of any changes that need to be made.

Hard to Believe that this thread has been going on for nearly six years now. :D I want to thank everyone who participates regularly for making this more than just a thread, but a community.

Here is the original thread. http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=275834 Hard to believe how few HD channels there used to be (and that post was last updated in 2005). Back in in 2003 at this time there were only a few HD channels. HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater, HDNet, and ESPN (which wasn't carried by anyone around here). It sure has grown since then.

2.If WMPT-DT 22 goes to RF 22, then there would be interference issues with WRIC-DT 8 (RF 22) Richmond.

WRIC is less of an issue than WNJS in Camden NJ.

- Trip

1.) Why do we still have analog 47? If this were off the air I would have picked up WMDT from Salisbury this morning. The signal was fluctuating between 10 and 40.

2.) Why can't MPT move their digital signal back to 22? This would eliminate the interference issues with WUTB.1.The low power analogs didn't have to transition on June 12. I'm not sure if they are working with a certain deadline, but channels 25, 47, & 58 are still broadcasting in analog from DC.

2.If WMPT-DT 22 goes to RF 22, then there would be interference issues with WRIC-DT 8 (RF 22) Richmond. With a good outdoor antenna, WUTB should be receivable to at least the southern edge of the DC beltway. I have noticed quite an improvement here in Arlington

Just and FYI. I live by the mountain in York county pa. 58 miles from the transmitters in Baltimore. I have a low signal (all the time)on channel 11 and 13 (around 61). I use an attic mounted antenna direct 91 with no preamp. Going to be adding a vhf only in the next few weeks.

I get betwen 95% and 100% signal for 11 and 13 in southern York county using a VHF and UHF antennae with a signal booster. If you do not have a VHF antennae you should not get 11 and 13 (or 7 and 9 from DC or 8 from Harrisburg) since they are now broadcasting on VHF. You may need a signal booster, such as CM-7777, to get a consistent strong signal.

WRIC is less of an issue than WNJS in Camden NJ.

- TripThanks Trip!!

We having fun yet?

Since last week I was able to rescan the HR-10, and reset the off-air settings of HR-20. Both now have full-up ATSC 7 and 9. However, I'm still not sure either guide knows to look for 30-1 thru 30-5 on RF24 yet. 30-6 thru 30-10 are fine on RF30, but still, only the HR-10 is able to show 30-1 thru 30-5 as the result of an RF scan. I'll wait til a nice bit of early evening ducting occurs in July/August to hunt for the rest.

I've also read some of the issues that people are having because of VHF. Keep in mind some of us out in the back 40 (in a valley with heavy foliage no less) can't do UHF well at all, so VHF is the only reliable mode for the widest area. Its says my location is Remington, but this is really a pin prick on the map called Lakota. Eventually these stations will realize that they will need to adjust their patterns and power levels accordingly. I would also think that adding VHF to those UHF-only antennas would be wise. How many people really got stung, buying a DTV-ready antenna that was UHF-only?

I get a strong signal, 80+, for 30-1 thru 30-5, but there is nothing there. The guide states these are for foreign countries/laguages? Is there really anything being broadcast?

I updated the numbers on the initial post of this thread. Please proofread and let me know of any changes that need to be made.

Hard to Believe that this thread has been going on for nearly six years now. :D I want to thank everyone who participates regularly for making this more than just a thread, but a community.

Here is the original thread. http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=275834 Hard to believe how few HD channels there used to be (and that post was last updated in 2005). Back in in 2003 at this time there were only a few HD channels. HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater, HDNet, and ESPN (which wasn't carried by anyone around here). It sure has grown since then.

A BIG thanks to cyclone GT for his work on this thread!

After making several adjustments after the transition, my OTA reception is the best it's ever been. I just do not know if it will last since reception of digital signals is so darn inconsistent.

I updated the numbers on the initial post of this thread. Please proofread and let me know of any changes that need to be made. Thanks Cyclone!

Quick note: MHz channel true frequency assignments are reversed. Subchannels 1-5 are on 24, 6-10 are on 30.

I updated the numbers on the initial post of this thread. Please proofread and let me know of any changes that need to be made.


Amazing work! Thanks to you and everyone who keeps the information flowing here.

One comment after a proofread - The listing of channels shows several Hi-VHF channels in orange, and the note at the bottom of the table says orange represents UHF channels.

Edited to add -

On the "Who has what chart, what does XS mean? Most things are marked X but some are XS and I didn't see a key."

I get a strong signal, 80+, for 30-1 thru 30-5, but there is nothing there. The guide states these are for foreign countries/laguages? Is there really anything being broadcast?Yes,

30.1-30.5 are broadcast from Merrifield, VA on RF24. 30.6-30.10 are broadcast from RF 30 in Manassas, VA. My guess is that your particular tuner isn't able to map all 10 subchannels since they are broadcast on 2 different frequencies.

Yes,

30.1-30.5 are broadcast from Merrifield, VA on RF24. 30.6-30.10 are broadcast from RF 30 in Manassas, VA. My guess is that your particular tuner isn't able to map all 10 subchannels since they are broadcast on 2 different frequencies.
Webpage listing what is on the 10 MHz sub-channels: http://www.mhznetworks.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=62. My understanding is that some DirecTV, Dish, and the TivoHD STB/DVRs have a loaded memory table of where the local stations are so they can map them to the guide data. From other posts here, it appears that some may have an incorrect RF channel of 30 for WNVC because WNVT is on RF 30, but gets mapped to 30-6 to 30-10. The STB tuners should allow a manual entry, but there are many "features" of ATSC tuners in general that were poorly thought out at the practical level.

Yes,

30.1-30.5 are broadcast from Merrifield, VA on RF24. 30.6-30.10 are broadcast from RF 30 in Manassas, VA. My guess is that your particular tuner isn't able to map all 10 subchannels since they are broadcast on 2 different frequencies.

I am surprised I get a signal as I live in southern PA. It could be I am actually getting channel 49-1 (Redlion, PA) that broadcasts on 30-1 and the guide is showing it as the DC 30-1. I will check this tonight.

Yes,

30.1-30.5 are broadcast from Merrifield, VA on RF24. 30.6-30.10 are broadcast from RF 30 in Manassas, VA. My guess is that your particular tuner isn't able to map all 10 subchannels since they are broadcast on 2 different frequencies.


What is the purpose of having them broadcast from two locations? Or is the content of the five sub channels repeated at each location. So 30.1 thorugh 30.5 is the same as 30.6 through 30.10?

I updated the numbers on the initial post of this thread. Please proofread and let me know of any changes that need to be made.

Hard to Believe that this thread has been going on for nearly six years now. :D I want to thank everyone who participates regularly for making this more than just a thread, but a community.

Here is the original thread. http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=275834 Hard to believe how few HD channels there used to be (and that post was last updated in 2005). Back in in 2003 at this time there were only a few HD channels. HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater, HDNet, and ESPN (which wasn't carried by anyone around here). It sure has grown since then.

50-2 is now broadcasting ThisTV. The list should be updated for 50-2. Thanks.

What is the purpose of having them broadcast from two locations? Or is the content of the five sub channels repeated at each location. So 30.1 thorugh 30.5 is the same as 30.6 through 30.10?All 10 channels are part of the MHZ network. The studio for both stations is in Merrifield. I guess they did it this way because they couldn't cram 10 subchannels on 1 channel without making the picture unwatchable. I'm still wondering why WNVT is licensed in Golvein, VA? It's transmitter has always been near Manssas, even when it was a Virginia Public Television station.(Analog 53)

What happened to WUSA 9 today. Came home to find my normally marginal 55% signal in the totally unreceivable 30% range. Has anyone else seen this today?

Thanks

Amazing work! Thanks to you and everyone who keeps the information flowing here.

One comment after a proofread - The listing of channels shows several Hi-VHF channels in orange, and the note at the bottom of the table says orange represents UHF channels.

Edited to add -

On the "Who has what chart, what does XS mean? Most things are marked X but some are XS and I didn't see a key."Ok. I will fix the legend at the bottom. About the local channels. For the longest time, it was simply an X for a OTA channel. But when Satellite started to carry HD locals, I put an S next to the X. I'll put that in a legend also. I try to be a bit of a minimalist, so I tend to leave things "unsaid".

Oh, and thank you to all for the kind words. It is really all of you who make this thread what it is. I just scrape your comments and postings to make up the entries in the first post. I just did it to keep tract of milestones of this DTV transition, so we wouldn't have to dig through the old threads to recall key dates. Now that the Big date has come and gone, I'm not sure what the new "stories" will be. I'm guessing that the next things that we will have to look forward to will be the termination of SD networks in favor of their HD siblings. I'm sure the MSOs and content providers would love to get rid of the duplicity of SD/HD simulcasts.

WUSA signal has returned. It was reduced for at least 4 hours. I found it lost to me at lunch and I just checked it and it is back up to its marginal mid 50% range. Out here in God's country about the only two channels I am within the predicted FCC range is Channel 7 and 9, but they are now my weakest. I can get Channels 11, 13, 2, better that 7 and 9 out of Washington.

Any word of WUSA is seeking a power increase? Channel 7 is about 10% higher and much more stable. Both could use a significant power increase since we all now know the FCC prediction for VHF coverage is flat wrong.

All 10 channels are part of the MHZ network. The studio for both stations is in Merrifield. I guess they did it this way because they couldn't cram 10 subchannels on 1 channel without making the picture unwatchable. I'm still wondering why WNVT is licensed in Golvein, VA? It's transmitter has always been near Manssas, even when it was a Virginia Public Television station.(Analog 53)

Here in central MD, 30.1-.5 are very strong. 30.6-.10 are non-existent.

New member just wanted to pop in to A) say thanks and B) ask a quick question.

A) Thanks. Found this forum and this thread via Google when I lost WBAL and WJZ after a year of enjoying their digital broadcasts after finally dumping Comca$t. After reading this thread I now know what happened, why it happened and (I think) how to fix it.

B) Indirectly related to this thread I have a little question. I want to relocate my set top UHF/VHF antenna temporarily until (hopefully) WBAL ups it's signal (I've got WJZ working now). The PO of my house ran coax to various rooms and I was hoping to connect my antenna, a Turk HDTVa, in a back upstairs bedroom, connect it to a coax outlet and then find which coax line in the basement it is connected to and run it over to where my MythTV box is and then up to my TV. Since there are several lines in the basement run for various reasons what's the easiest way to tell which is connected to which? I was hoping that since I don't have a small TV to connect to in the basement could I simply connect a battery to the two conductors and then use a multimeter to look for the same voltage on one of the coax cables in the basement? Is there a simpler method?

Thanks,
Bigfork

... could I simply connect a battery to the two conductors and then use a multimeter to look for the same voltage on one of the coax cables in the basement? Is there a simpler method?


That should work, I've done similar things in the past. 9V batteries work well for this. Note that if you have any splitters or other devices on the line, they might not pass DC current. Unlikely given your explanation, just thought I'd point that out :)

So is there any chance of WUSA increasing their signal strength? I messed around with both my Square shooters today and I found a position that lowers WRC signal by 25% and that position gets me WJLA at the same strength as WRC. Not as high as I would like but it seems solid. I can get a faint signal from WUSA but it's not stong enough for my TiVos to show a picture. If they could transmist at the power of WJLA I would probably be able o get it. Otherwise what was one of my strongest stations is now my weakest.

THE FCC IS COMING TO MY HOME! I live in Clarksville, MD (18 miles from TV Hill in Baltimore), and have complained to both WBAL 11 and WJZ 13 about my inability to receive their signals with amplified rabbit ears. (I'm also having intermittent problems with WUSA 9). On Wednesday, WBAL called me and asked for permission to give my name and phone # to the FCC, and today I received a call from the Columbia, MD field office of the FCC. They are sending technicians out to my house next week to take both indoor and outdoor signal strength readings. So I guess they are doing something about the VHF problem. WJZ has increased power, and I can see them now, when I couldn't the other day.

THE FCC IS COMING TO MY HOME! I live in Clarksville, MD (18 miles from TV Hill in Baltimore), and have complained to both WBAL 11 and WJZ 13 about my inability to receive their signals with amplified rabbit ears. (I'm also having intermittent problems with WUSA 9). On Wednesday, WBAL called me and asked for permission to give my name and phone # to the FCC, and today I received a call from the Columbia, MD field office of the FCC. They are sending technicians out to my house next week to take both indoor and outdoor signal strength readings. So I guess they are doing something about the VHF problem. WJZ has increased power, and I can see them now, when I couldn't the other day.
i'd like to know if wbal is going to increase power i found out that wjz got permission from fcc. i live in harford county.

THE FCC IS COMING TO MY HOME! I live in Clarksville, MD (18 miles from TV Hill in Baltimore), and have complained to both WBAL 11 and WJZ 13 about my inability to receive their signals with amplified rabbit ears. (I'm also having intermittent problems with WUSA 9). On Wednesday, WBAL called me and asked for permission to give my name and phone # to the FCC, and today I received a call from the Columbia, MD field office of the FCC. They are sending technicians out to my house next week to take both indoor and outdoor signal strength readings. So I guess they are doing something about the VHF problem. WJZ has increased power, and I can see them now, when I couldn't the other day.

That's very cool :) Point out to them that Howard County is also part of the D.C. metro for us, will ya? We should be able to get 7 and 9 as well as 11 and 13 up here, albeit not with rabbit ears, I think a proper antenna is expected at 25-30 miles out. Please let us know what they say about your situation.

I get betwen 95% and 100% signal for 11 and 13 in southern York county using a VHF and UHF antennae with a signal booster. If you do not have a VHF antennae you should not get 11 and 13 (or 7 and 9 from DC or 8 from Harrisburg) since they are now broadcasting on VHF. You may need a signal booster, such as CM-7777, to get a consistent strong signal.

I get Ch11 an Ch13 with a UHF only DB4 (4 bowtie). Pretty strong signals too.

47 has added a sub-channel

47 has added a sub-channel

47? What channel is that? I thought 47 was still analog WMDO?

I can get about out 95% signal strength on that freq. aimed towards Baltimore, but I can't lock onto anything digital. Aimed towards D.C. I get nothing but noise.

Do you mean virtual 47, as in VHF 8? Apologies if so.

Since there are several lines in the basement run for various reasons what's the easiest way to tell which is connected to which? I was hoping that since I don't have a small TV to connect to in the basement could I simply connect a battery to the two conductors and then use a multimeter to look for the same voltage on one of the coax cables in the basement? Is there a simpler method?

Don't bother with the battery - just short the inner conductor to the outer fitting and look for a short at the other end. Introducing a voltage into something which you don't know how it's connected may cause a problem.
Might as well do this for all the coax runs in the house and make a diagram - this way you won't need to remember the next time.

47? What channel is that? I thought 47 was still analog WMDO?

I can get about out 95% signal strength on that freq. aimed towards Baltimore, but I can't lock onto anything digital. Aimed towards D.C. I get nothing but noise.

Do you mean virtual 47, as in VHF 8? Apologies if so.Remoteless is referring to WMDO-DT 47 (RF 8). They have in fact added a 47.2 subchannel. It is now showing music videos (LATN-VIDEOSA LACARTE).

I still don't see how this station could have more than a handful of viewers OTA. I can't imagine anything but an outdoor antenna picking them up over a mile away. At least they finally fixed their PSIP encoder. It only took 9 months.:D

Don't bother with the battery - just short the inner conductor to the outer fitting and look for a short at the other end. Introducing a voltage into something which you don't know how it's connected may cause a problem.
Might as well do this for all the coax runs in the house and make a diagram - this way you won't need to remember the next time.

One of my friends suggested the same. That is even easier than the battery solution. Thanks.

Bigfork

THE FCC IS COMING TO MY HOME! I live in Clarksville, MD (18 miles from TV Hill in Baltimore), and have complained to both WBAL 11 and WJZ 13 about my inability to receive their signals with amplified rabbit ears. (I'm also having intermittent problems with WUSA 9). On Wednesday, WBAL called me and asked for permission to give my name and phone # to the FCC, and today I received a call from the Columbia, MD field office of the FCC. They are sending technicians out to my house next week to take both indoor and outdoor signal strength readings. So I guess they are doing something about the VHF problem. WJZ has increased power, and I can see them now, when I couldn't the other day.

I've discovered a new problem with WJZ. Whenever I get WJZ to have stable reception, WUSA starts to break up and vice versa. Hope they can increase the power just a little on both.

Remoteless is referring to WMDO-DT 47 (RF 8). They have in fact added a 47.2 subchannel. It is now showing music videos (LATN-VIDEOSA LACARTE).

I still don't see how this station could have more than a handful of viewers OTA. I can't imagine anything but an outdoor antenna picking them up over a mile away. At least they finally fixed their PSIP encoder. It only took 9 months.:D

That channel doesn't even register for me. I think you have to have an outdoor antenna for that one. BTW, does anyone know if they will shut this analog station down in the future. I don't know if it is technically a low power or not.

Remoteless is referring to WMDO-DT 47 (RF 8). They have in fact added a 47.2 subchannel. It is now showing music videos (LATN-VIDEOSA LACARTE).

I still don't see how this station could have more than a handful of viewers OTA. I can't imagine anything but an outdoor antenna picking them up over a mile away. At least they finally fixed their PSIP encoder. It only took 9 months.:D

I don't understand why they haven't done what almost every other Entravision station has done. They're almost all multicasting their sister station(s), even if they're on the same tower and everything.

This would make so much sense:

14-1 Univision
14-2 TeleFutura
14-3 LATV
14-4 WJAL

- Trip

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

If you want a one antenna solution http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7694P
'
I am in the same situation and want to get the Y5-7-13, I already have the CM4221 in my attic. However, my attic opening is 33" diagonal, and the Y5-7-13 is 35" wide, do you know if it can be disassembled, or if there is a similar VHF antenna that is slightly smaller, but just as good?

Thanks

Remoteless is referring to WMDO-DT 47 (RF 8). They have in fact added a 47.2 subchannel. It is now showing music videos (LATN-VIDEOSA LACARTE).

I still don't see how this station could have more than a handful of viewers OTA. I can't imagine anything but an outdoor antenna picking them up over a mile away. At least they finally fixed their PSIP encoder. It only took 9 months.:D

I live right in the middle of NW D.C., and I can't pull it in with an indoor antenna at all. And I'm pretty sure they're transmitting from somewhere very nearby.

'
I am in the same situation and want to get the Y5-7-13, I already have the CM4221 in my attic. However, my attic opening is 33" diagonal, and the Y5-7-13 is 35" wide, do you know if it can be disassembled, or if there is a similar VHF antenna that is slightly smaller, but just as good?
I double checked the manual for the Y series VHF antennas at the antennacraft website (http://www.antennacraft.net/Yagi.html). Just like the Winegard Y-6713 upper VHF antenna, the antenna elements fold up so you can get it through the opening. All upper VHF antennas will have reflectors around 34" to 35" wide to match the 1/2 wavelength of VHF 7.

Could anyone confirm that WJZ-DT 13 is still at the increased STA power of 27 kW - or at least appears to be at greater power than they were after the switch. I could not get WJZ last night, after it came in on Thursday with the power increase. I was messing with my antenna setup for the physical UHF stations (not easy getting WHAG 25, WNVC, WNVT, WFPT, WUTB all at the same time from Sterling), so I might have messed up VHF reception (lose coaxial, whatever).

Hi everyone,

Like most people on this thread, the transition messed me up a little. I live in Baltimore and I have 2 Winegaurd ss-3300. Before the switch I was able to get all the Baltimore OTA stations in both my bedroom and basement, all the DC OTA stations in my bedroom, and all the DC stations except WJLA in my basement. Now, I've lost WUSA and WJLA and I'm not quite sure what to do to get them back.

When it comes to OTA antennas I have no knowledge. I read these forums and gained a little insight. I'm about 35 miles from WUSA and WJLA's towers. I really want to get an indoor antenna to pick up these stations because of my HOA and I don't know how to install a roof antenna (granted I can hire someone to do the installation). From the looks of things I may have to get a roof top. If anybody has any recommendations I'd greatly appreciate it. Since this is my first post I can't post my tvfool.com results.

Could anyone confirm that WJZ-DT 13 is still at the increased STA power of 27 kWI am seeing a much more robust signal than before on WJZ. I was getting 8 out of 10 bars for both WBAL & WJZ, but now WJZ is solid with 10 bars.

I'm not sure if WHAG-DT 25 is still tweaking or not. It doesn't come in well at night, but coming in great right now. I think the Richmond station on the same frequency is drowning it out at night. I'm not sure if this will affect you quite as much since you are further north.

After I lost 7 and 9, I tried using rabbit ears in my attic to get 7 and 9 in Chantilly (South Riding) and I had off and on pixelation with airplanes and rain. My signal strength was about 50-60% on my Sony TV.

So, I ordered an Antennacraft Y10 VHF-Hi 10 ft / 35 In wide and installed it in my attic yesterday. It fits between the 24 in on center rafters fairly well and I was able to point it right toward the DC towers (only at DC because it only fits lengthwise).

I am happy to report that with this monster in my attic, I get 97% signal strength for WUSA 9 and 87% signal strength for Channel 7. This goes into the VHF input on a 7777 preamp. I also have a 4221 pointed at DC for UHF and a 4228 pointed at Baltimore (spaced 4 feet apart) into a Lindsay combiner and then into the 7777.

I realize that this UHF setup is not recommended because of different UHF antenna types, but I get all of DC at at least 90% signal strength and MPT at 60% all in my attic. No other Baltimore/Annapolis at all I'm sorry to say.

But, if you can fit it, I really recommend the Y10. I originally wanted to try the Y5 because it's smaller, but I measured and the Y10 fit with great results.

This would make so much sense:
14-1 Univision
14-2 TeleFutura
14-3 LATV
14-4 WJAL
Well, Univision is going HD, later this year IIRC. Don't want to load up a bunch of sub-channels, although that has not stopped Ion or NBC. TeleFuture is a different network which has a low power station in the DC market. May be legal issues with putting it on the Univision stations.

Telemundo is already HD in some markets, so WMDO-CA 47 might be planning to go HD on their low power VHF 8 broadcast. WMDO-LD is at 198 watts on VHF 8, don't know why they would not have applied for 300 Watts, the maximum allowed for low power VHF just to get a little better coverage. If the FCC changes the maximum power allowed for digital VHF in Zone 1, they might also increase the power limits for low power digital VHF.

The analog WMDO-CA 47 is a low power class A station. They will probably keep it on the air until they have to shut it down at the mandated shutdown for analog low power stations, but no date has been set for that beyond a possible 2012. As a Class A station, WMDO has protection for their broadcast channel that a LP or translator does not have, so they can't get bumped by a full power station channel move.

Well, Univision is going HD, later this year IIRC. Don't want to load up a bunch of sub-channels, although that has not stopped Ion or NBC. TeleFuture is a different network which has a low power station in the DC market. May be legal issues with putting it on the Univision stations.

But this is exactly what Entravision does in Hartford, where WUVN is:

18-1 Univision
18-2 Univision (WHTX-LP Springfield MA)
18-3 TeleFutura (WUTH-CA)
18-4 LATV

And Entravision does lots of multicasting in other markets, see Laredo and Brownsville.

- Trip

So, I ordered an Antennacraft Y5 VHF-Hi 10 ft / 35 In wide and installed it in my attic yesterday. It fits between the 24 in on center rafters fairly well and I was able to point it right toward the DC towers (only at DC because it only fits lengthwise). . . . . . I am happy to report that with this monster in my attic. . . . .If you decide to go with the larger model, the Winegard YA-1713 is a better choice. It is only 100" long versus 120" for the Antennacraft model. It's a few dollars cheaper, a better performer IMO, and already 75 ohm ready.

Yes, You need a real VHF antenna for any chance of getting 7 in Ashburn. This is your cheapest option. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13
Join the 2 antennas together with this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

If you want a one antenna solution http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7694P

Thanks Digital Rules

This did the trick I combined the 'AntennaCraft Y5-7-13' to 'Antennas Direct DB2' and now get WJLA and WUSA.

I now get 4.1, 4.2. 4.3, 5.1, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 9.2, 20.1, 30.1, 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 30.5, 66.1, 66.2, 66.3 and 66.4.

Good signal on the VHF channels;
- WJLA (89)
- WUSA (87)

But UHF channels are weaker;
- WRC (67)
- WTTG (78)
- WPXW (76)
- WDCA (70)
- WNVT (76)

Not getting some of the others that thought I would
- WFDC
- WNVC
- WDCW
- WHUT
- WJAL
- WFPT

This is my TV Fool chart

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618aa675578dde

If any suggestions on improve the UHF signals/channels appreciate it. I have tried adjustmentsthe the UHF antenna but this is best I could get.

[EDIT] BT way this is an attic installation (plywood roof with asphalt shingles)

Cheers,
Mark

On Comcast digital cable here in Harford County WBAL does not include 5.1 Dolby Digital. Do they broadcast OTA with 5.1? If not, are they planning to upgrade?

Well, Univision is going HD, later this year IIRC. Don't want to load up a bunch of sub-channels, although that has not stopped Ion or NBC. TeleFuture is a different network which has a low power station in the DC market. May be legal issues with putting it on the Univision stations.
To clarify/summarize:

Telefutura is a network owned by Univision Communications.
Telemundo is a network owned by NBC Universal.

Entravision is a station group owner that owns/operates primarily Univision/Telefutura duopolies, including WFDC and WMDO in DC.

Univision is on WFDC-14. (digital full power RF 15, analog no longer available)
Telefutura is on WMDO-47. (digital low power RF 8, analog class A on 47)
Telemundo is on WZDC-25. (analog only on 25, but with CP to flash cut 25 to digital)

I agree with Trip that it would make sense to put Telefutura on a WFDC sub-channel, and I've wondered for a long time why they don't do that. I suspect it has something to do with their effort to relocate WJAL from Hagerstown to DC, i.e. maybe they don't want to undermine their argument for needing another Spanish channel in DC. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense in light of what they do in other markets, but it's the best explanation I can come up with.

I also think it would make sense at this point to flip analog 47 back to Univision, as it was originally, before they decided that the more popular network belonged on the stronger channel.

Is LATV the same thing as LATN-VIDEOSA LACARTE?

Could anyone confirm that WJZ-DT 13 is still at the increased STA power of 27 kW - or at least appears to be at greater power than they were after the switch. I could not get WJZ last night, after it came in on Thursday with the power increase. I was messing with my antenna setup for the physical UHF stations (not easy getting WHAG 25, WNVC, WNVT, WFPT, WUTB all at the same time from Sterling), so I might have messed up VHF reception (lose coaxial, whatever).
Sure looks like it here, and I saw crawls promoting all through the night. I have seen some serious weather-related fades though. At one point in the wee hours this morning 11 and 13 both faded from an unusually strong signal to below threshold and then back to unusually strong over just 15-20 minute period.


On Wednesday, WBAL called me and asked for permission to give my name and phone # to the FCC, and today I received a call from the Columbia, MD field office of the FCC.
What is your sense of WBAL's level of concern over this issue?

Given the lack of FCC filings, and the notice on WBAL's web site the other evening suggesting most viewers would "experience no service interruption" when they shutdown their transmitter for testing, I've been wondering how much they really care if they lose OTA audience.

WJZ is obviously very concerned, but I have my doubts about WBAL.

Anybody in northern Virginia have any signal from WVIR-DT in Charlottesville? I was seeing a signal on the attic 4-bay through most of last night and this morning on channel 32, but it's too weak to lock. At some point in the past couple of hours it must have locked though, because I now have the following in my Insignia channel list:

29-1 NBC29HD
29-2 Wx+
29-3 CW29

WJZ is obviously very concerned, but I have my doubts about WBAL.

If that's true, WBAL isn't operating in the public interest and they should have their license to broadcast canceled and lose carriage rights with pay providers.

--- CHAS

This did the trick I combined the 'AntennaCraft Y5-7-13' to 'Antennas Direct DB2' and now get WJLA and WUSA.

I now get 4.1, 4.2. 4.3, 5.1, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 9.2, 20.1, 30.1, 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 30.5, 66.1, 66.2, 66.3 and 66.4.
...
Not getting some of the others that thought I would
- WFDC
- WNVC
- WDCW
- WHUT
- WJAL
- WFPT

This is my TV Fool chart
Ignore the WJAL entry. Tvfool is including some older applications and low power listings that are in the FCC database, but were never granted or are obsolete construction permits. WJAL 68 (DT 39) is located up near Chambersburg, PA; the stronger listing is their years old application to move to Silver Spring. WZDC-LD on 26 and WDCN-LD on 38 don't exist because those channels ended up being used by full power stations (WHAG-DT, WMAR-DT).

Attic installations are subject to dead spots for reception. I have a CM 4221 4 bay in my attic and I can lose or gain weaker stations by moving it a foot. I have the CM 4221 mounting to a flat board using a attic mounting bracket (was $5 at Lowes) and I can slide the antenna across the floorboards around the attic crawlspace. If you have tried a bunch of alternate locations for the DB2 without success, you may need more UHF antenna gain. Ashburn is around 24 to 26 miles from the DC broadcast towers and if you are not at a good elevation, you might need to upgrade to a 4 bay bowtie.

WNVC 56 (DT 24) is licensed for Fairfax, but the antenna is in Merrifield, just off the beltway. You should aim the DB2 further south some 20 to 30 degrees to see if you get WNVC on 30-1 to 30-5 on a scan.
[Oops: edit fix - you are getting WNVC on 30.1 to 30.5, it is WNVT 30 on 30-6 to 30-10 located southeast of Manassus that you are not getting. Aim the DB2 almost due south and scan to see if you get 30.6+. Flat plate bowties have backlobes off at an angle, aim the DB-2 north of DC and see it it still comes in.)

BTW, I just want to check because I have seen others make this mistake - you know that the bowties are the front of the antenna so the side with the bowties should be facing in the direction of DC? If you find this a dumb question, no insult intended, but people have put up the flat bowties facing backwards.

Good signal on the VHF channels;
- WJLA (89)
- WUSA (87)

But UHF channels are weaker;
- WRC (67)
- WTTG (78)
- WPXW (76)
- WDCA (70)
- WNVT (76)

Not getting some of the others that thought I would
- WFDC
- WNVC
- WDCW
- WHUT
- WJAL
- WFPT
Mark,

You shouldn't have any problems getting many of those desired channels . A couple things to add to Afiggatt's suggestions

-How close are the antennas to each other. They need to be at least 3.5' apart to avoid interaction between them.

-If moving them apart doesn't help, you are a perfect candidate for a pre-amp. Since your antenna is inside the attic, I would recommend the Winegard 2870.

I donated my low gain Winegard combo antenna to someone in your area with much lower signals strengths. It works great only 10 feet off the roof of a 1 story house. With a pre-amp, all the DC stations are solid (except WMDO-DT 47), and all the Baltimore channels(except WBAL-DT 11) come in much better than I had expected.

THE FCC IS COMING TO MY HOME! I live in Clarksville, MD (18 miles from TV Hill in Baltimore), and have complained to both WBAL 11 and WJZ 13 about my inability to receive their signals with amplified rabbit ears. (I'm also having intermittent problems with WUSA 9). On Wednesday, WBAL called me and asked for permission to give my name and phone # to the FCC, and today I received a call from the Columbia, MD field office of the FCC. They are sending technicians out to my house next week to take both indoor and outdoor signal strength readings. So I guess they are doing something about the VHF problem. WJZ has increased power, and I can see them now, when I couldn't the other day.

I hope they use the information gained from your house to help fix these problems.

Hi everyone,

Now that I can post the tvfool link this should help. I live in Baltimore and I have 2 Winegaurd ss-3300. Before the switch I was able to get all the Baltimore OTA stations in both my bedroom and basement, all the DC OTA stations in my bedroom, and all the DC stations except WJLA in my basement. Now, I've lost WUSA and WJLA and I'm not quite sure what to do to get them back.

When it comes to OTA antennas I have no knowledge. I read these forums and gained a little insight. I'm about 34 miles from the WUSA and WJLA's towers. I stopped by Radio Shack tonight and I saw these two antennas

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3537124&tab=techSpecs

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191

Would either of these antenna work if I set them up inside and used an amplifier? If anybody has any recommendations on better antennas or setup I'd greatly appreciate it. Here are my results form tvfool.com

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618a73b6eea8ed


P.S. Thanks for the tip BritInVa

Hi everyone,

Now that I can post the tvfool link this should help. I live in Baltimore and I have 2 Winegaurd ss-3300. Before the switch I was able to get all the Baltimore OTA stations in both my bedroom and basement, all the DC OTA stations in my bedroom, and all the DC stations except WJLA in my basement. Now, I've lost WUSA and WJLA and I'm not quite sure what to do to get them back.

When it comes to OTA antennas I have no knowledge. I read these forums and gained a little insight. I'm about 34 miles from the WUSA and WJLA's towers. I stopped by Radio Shack tonight and I saw these two antennas

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3537124&tab=techSpecs

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191

Would either of these antenna work if I set them up inside and used an amplifier? If anybody has any recommendations on better antennas or setup I'd greatly appreciate it. Here are my results form tvfool.com

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618a73b6eea8ed


P.S. Thanks for the tip BritInVa


The first antenna would be useful for you. Might even work in an attic. The second is best left on the store's shelf as it is little different from what you have.

If you decide to go with the larger model, the Winegard YA-1713 is a better choice. It is only 100" long versus 120" for the Antennacraft model. It's a few dollars cheaper, a better performer IMO, and already 75 ohm ready.

Oops! I bought the Y10 and wrote in my post the Y5.

I'm pretty happy so far, but what are your thoughts on the Y10 vs. the YA1713?

WHAG-DT went full-power and finished tweaking last Monday. I talked to the Engineer yesterday.

I was able to receive MHz this morning. I've also noticed the issue of 7 & 9, when I do antenna adjustments. Get one, lose one.

WHAG-DT went full-power and finished tweaking last Monday. I talked to the Engineer yesterday.

I was able to receive MHz this morning. I've also noticed the issue of 7 & 9, when I do antenna adjustments. Get one, lose one.

HAGERSTOWN Area
Yes, WHAG-DT 25.1 (RF26) is burning down the barn. Transmitter on top of the mountain with lots of power.

However, I suspect that the old 31, (WWPB -PBS on RF 44) and the old 68 (WJAL independent on RF 39) are not at full power. I get 31.1 at times but it breaks up. I never can get 68.1 at all.

WWPB is alloted almost twice the power of WHAG and I get WHAG fine. Since WWPB is very weak, I suspect they have not boosted their power. Maybe because of money problems or whatever. Since WHAG and WWPB are both on the same mountain, there is no reason other than a lack of power that should keep me from getting the channel. I am within 20 miles or so with no blockages in that direction.

HAGERSTOWN Area
Yes, WHAG-DT 25.1 (RF26) is burning down the barn. Transmitter on top of the mountain with lots of power.

However, I suspect that the old 31, (WWPB -PBS on RF 44) and the old 68 (WJAL independent on RF 39) are not at full power. I get 31.1 at times but it breaks up. I never can get 68.1 at all.

WWPB is alloted almost twice the power of WHAG and I get WHAG fine. Since WWPB is very weak, I suspect they have not boosted their power. Maybe because of money problems or whatever. Since WHAG and WWPB are both on the same mountain, there is no reason other than a lack of power that should keep me from getting the channel. I am within 20 miles or so with no blockages in that direction.

I am also in Franklin County and have a cm-4221 outside about 25 feet up on my roof. WWPB 31 is burning down the barn for me with a stronger signal then WHAG 25. I get both and ION 60 out of Martinsburg with no problems. I also get the VA PBS station out of Front Royal with some periodic breakups. WJAL 68 I cannot get as the signal is too weak. I started getting this in December (I think they must have increased power around that time), but lost it after their fire and never got it back since. What kind of antenna are you using? I find it odd that you have trouble getting WWPB 31 if you can get WHAG 25 with no problems.

I am also in Franklin County and have a cm-4221 outside about 25 feet up on my roof. WWPB 31 is burning down the barn for me with a stronger signal then WHAG 25. I get both and ION 60 out of Martinsburg with no problems. I also get the VA PBS station out of Front Royal with some periodic breakups. WJAL 68 I cannot get as the signal is too weak. I started getting this in December (I think they must have increased power around that time), but lost it after their fire and never got it back since. What kind of antenna are you using? I find it odd that you have trouble getting WWPB 31 if you can get WHAG 25 with no problems.

The PBS station is WVPY-42 RF21 from Front Royal, VA. I have no problems with WHAG, WWPB or WJAL. All my problems are related to the DC, Baltimore and Harrisburg stations. Are you able to get any of those?

If that's true, WBAL isn't operating in the public interest and they should have their license to broadcast canceled and lose carriage rights with pay providers.

--- CHAS

You're not serious, right? WBAL is using as much power as the FCC allowed them to use. You might be able to ding them for moving back to VHF 11 in the first place, but again .. the FCC sold the channel (59) they were operating on before 6/12 and they couldn't stay there.

If you want to blame somebody, I really think you're best served directing any and all ire towards the FCC. I've spoken to WBAL a number of times over the past year, and other than our friend Mark from WBFF/WNUV, they're the most concerned about OTA viewers like us than any other stations I've contacted, in my opinion of course.

(That said, WBAL, if you're watching .. PLEASE fix your audio levels!!)

I receive WJAL-DT no matter which way my antenna points. That and WWPX-DT are my most solid stations. WHAG-DT and WWPB-DT are solid from about 150° to 320° and WTAJ-DT is solid from about 280° to 360°.

WTTG-DT, WJLA-DT, WDCA-DT, WPXW-DT, WVPY-DT, WBFF-DT, WPMT-DT, WGCB-DT, WUTB-DT (very good reception), & WNPB-DT are watchable and even reliable most of the time.

I do not get WRC-DT, WBAL-DT, WLYH-DT, WHP-DT, WITF-DT, WHTM-DT, WGAL-DT, & WDCW-DT.

I'm working on reacquiring WNUV-DT & WMAR-DT and WUSA-DT keeps coming and going.

Anyone have good news using the 7694P in the 21113 area code pointed directly at the DC stations (less than 25 miles away)? I am looking to place this on my roof (fairly good clear line of site to the towers) and want to get 7, 9, 11 and channel 13. The gain on all channels look good according to their tech specs. Thanks in advance.

Oops! I bought the Y10 and wrote in my post the Y5.

I'm pretty happy so far, but what are your thoughts on the Y10 vs. the YA1713?They are very close in performance, but I prefer the Winegard because it is 20" shorter, and has a cartridge mounted 75 ohm balun. Winegard products are generally better constructed than Antennacraft products also.

I receive WJAL-DT no matter which way my antenna points. That and WWPX-DT are my most solid stations. WHAG-DT and WWPB-DT are solid from about 150° to 320° and WTAJ-DT is solid from about 280° to 360°.

I'm going to be riding through the area on Friday and I'm wondering if you think it's possible to get WTAJ-DT with a Silver Sensor anywhere along I-81. That's a station I would just love to have data for, but I don't know if I can get it.

Anything else I should look for while I'm in the area of Winchester through Shippensburg?

- Trip

Anyone have good news using the 7694P in the 21113 area code pointed directly at the DC stations (less than 25 miles away)? I am looking to place this on my roof (fairly good clear line of site to the towers) and want to get 7, 9, 11 and channel 13. The gain on all channels look good according to their tech specs. Thanks in advance.
You are located between DC and Baltimore. The Winegard 7694P design is a moderately directional antenna, so you would likely need a rotator to get the stations in both cities. And digital reception and channel scans are generally not always user friendly for rotators. There is the possibility that you could aim the Winegard 7694P at the more distant stations in Baltimore and get the DC stations - or just the stronger physical RF UHF stations - off of a backlobe. But if you look at the 7694P spec sheet (http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD7694P.pdf), this antenna by design has a strong front to back ratio which means that it has little gain or pickup to the rear direction.

I think a lot of people located between DC and Baltimore have gone with a 4 or 8 bay bowtie antenna for the UHF channels because even with a backscreen, the bowties generally have good pickup in the opposite direction. The backscreen on a 2 or 4 bay can be removed for gain in both directions. I took the backscreen off of a CM 4221 this week to try to get WHAG 25 in Hagerstown which is to my NW while trying to get the Baltimore stations at 43 miles 62 degrees azimuth and the DC stations at 16-18 miles, 115 azimuth. Was a partial success as I was able to get WHAG, but the Baltimore physical RF UHF stations were subject to dropouts and WUTB going away. Anyway I am still experimenting with this, but that is another post.

Hopefully some others with practical experience who live or have set up antennas between DC and Baltimore can weigh in. My suggestion is that you consider getting a 4 bay bowtie - DB4 or the new CM 4221HD - combined with a short-medium range upper VHF antenna. based on reports, the new CM 4228 HD 8 bay which replaced the well regarded CM 4228 is to be avoided.

Anyone have good news using the 7694P in the 21113 area code pointed directly at the DC stations (less than 25 miles away)? I am looking to place this on my roof (fairly good clear line of site to the towers) and want to get 7, 9, 11 and channel 13. The gain on all channels look good according to their tech specs. Thanks in advance.All the DC & Baltimore channels should come in fine with the 7694 with the exception of WMDO-DT 47. You will need a rotator to get both markets. Once WMPT analog goes off the air, you should also be able to get WBOC-DT 47 from Salisbury with the antenna pointed east.


*****Ooops, Afiggatt beat me to it!!

WWPB is alloted almost twice the power of WHAG and I get WHAG fine. Since WWPB is very weak, I suspect they have not boosted their power.
The weather we have been having since June 12 with almost daily thunderstorms and frequent tropo conditions is making judging station power or figuring out which stations have increased power subject to being wrong. So having said that, after the transition, I did not see any notable change in WWPB-DT 31 (RF 44) signal strength. I have rarely gotten a lock on WWPB-DT with the CM4221 aimed in the opposite direction prior to June 12 or for the week afterward. On Saturday, I manually selected channel 44 and presto, WWPB 31 popped up with a good signal strength. It is still there this morning. I did not checked for WWPB on Friday night, so my guess (and I could be wrong because of tropo) is that WWPB went to 1000 kW on Friday (or Saturday morning).

For the stations that have been granted increased power allotments post-transition, it would be useful to know which ones have increased power and which ones have not to help with configuring the antenna setup if the station is marginal. WVPY-DT 42 (RF 21) is still at 50 kW and won't increase to 100 kW until maybe later this year or next. WJZ-DT 13 increased to STA power of 27 kW until they put up the new antenna. WHAG-DT 25 (RF 26) went to 575 kW after they were at a lower power for the first few days after the transition. Don't know if WUTB 24 (RF 41) is still at 200 kW or has increased to the recently granted 290 kW.

I'm going to be riding through the area on Friday and I'm wondering if you think it's possible to get WTAJ-DT with a Silver Sensor anywhere along I-81. That's a station I would just love to have data for, but I don't know if I can get it.

Anything else I should look for while I'm in the area of Winchester through Shippensburg?

- Trip

Based on the local terrain, you might stand a chance around Exit 10 or 17 in PA, I pick up WTAJ with a 7084 on a 30' tower and I am blocked by the mountain 5 miles away. You might also be able to try for the Harrisburg stations, from Shippensburg if you stop around Lowes or Wal-Mart thats a little higher area. WITF RF36, WHP RF21 and WLYH RF23, WHTM is on VHF RF10

However, I suspect that the old 31, (WWPB -PBS on RF 44) and the old 68 (WJAL independent on RF 39) are not at full power. I get 31.1 at times but it breaks up. I never can get 68.1 at all.From my location WWPB-DT 31 has always been pretty solid, but have not noticed a consistently higher reading on my signal strength meter. (3-4 bars out of 10). WHAG-DT 25 is not very reliable, especially at night.(Only 1 bar out of 10) It must be the different antenna patterns causing this. Not too sure about WJAL-DT 68. I have only seen it twice here.

Based on the local terrain, you might stand a chance around Exit 10 or 17 in PA, I pick up WTAJ with a 7084 on a 30' tower and I am blocked by the mountain 5 miles away. You might also be able to try for the Harrisburg stations, from Shippensburg if you stop around Lowes or Wal-Mart thats a little higher area. WITF RF36, WHP RF21 and WLYH RF23, WHTM is on VHF RF10

I'm actually following 81 up to 78, so I'll be able to see the Harrisburg stations when I get closer. Actually, there's a stretch of I-78 where I can see WLYH-DT even when the car is moving.

I'll look for WTAJ if there's a rest stop in the area, though looking at the TVFool maps, I won't be betting on it.

- Trip

All the DC & Baltimore channels should come in fine with the 7694 with the exception of WMDO-DT 47. You will need a rotator to get both markets. Once WMPT analog goes off the air, you should also be able to get WBOC-DT 47 from Salisbury with the antenna pointed east.


*****Ooops, Afiggatt beat me to it!!

????What??? You mean WBOC-DT 16 (21) from Salisbury right? And when exactly is analog WMPT supposed to go off the air?

????What??? You mean WBOC-DT 16 (21) from Salisbury right? And when exactly is analog WMPT supposed to go off the air?Yes, WBOC-DT 16. (Thanks!!)

WMPT-TV should be pulling the plug 30 days after June 12.

WMPT-TV should be pulling the plug 30 days after June 12.
According to the FCC list of participants in the analog nightlight program, WMPT 22 will shut down on June 26. Most stations either chose to stay on for 2 weeks or 4 weeks.

WRC-TV 4 - Ends June 26
WTTG-TV 5 - Ends July 12

If WTTG 5 is the last full power station to pull the analog plug in DC and Baltimore, hope they do a proper sendoff at the end.

Hi guys,

I was planning to put an antenna in the attic and it seems when the house was built they did put a RG cable (about 20 years old now) from the attic to the back of the house. I want to test the cable to see if it's working or not. How can i test it?

Thanks

The PBS station is WVPY-42 RF21 from Front Royal, VA. I have no problems with WHAG, WWPB or WJAL. All my problems are related to the DC, Baltimore and Harrisburg stations. Are you able to get any of those?

No I don't get anything from Baltimore or DC. My father-in-law gets 2 and 13 from Baltimore with a big old looking antenna about 20 feet off the ground. I use to get Baltimore analog stations with a small old fm radio antenna that was on the roof of my house when I bought it. The antenna was put up there in the 60's when I went to turn it the mast snapped and the thing hit the ground and was destroyed.

I was thinking about buying one of those Lava UHF/VHF combo antennas with the built in rotor and putting it on my chimney about 30 feet up and see what I get. Has anyone ever tried these? I noticed they are backordered on summitsource, so people must be buying them.

I am also in Franklin County and have a cm-4221 outside about 25 feet up on my roof. WWPB 31 is burning down the barn for me with a stronger signal then WHAG 25. I get both and ION 60 out of Martinsburg with no problems. I also get the VA PBS station out of Front Royal with some periodic breakups. WJAL 68 I cannot get as the signal is too weak. I started getting this in December (I think they must have increased power around that time), but lost it after their fire and never got it back since. What kind of antenna are you using? I find it odd that you have trouble getting WWPB 31 if you can get WHAG 25 with no problems.

I am the original poster from yesterday that complained about not being able to get WWPB-DT 31. I do live further away from their transmitter than you do, but on Analog, it was much stronger that 25 analog. On digital, I barely have 31 and 25 is strong. I just do not understand it. I have the knowledge to troubleshoot it whenever I get some time. Even adding a UHF amp does not fix it. Rotating the antenna does not fix it.
I have a high gain UHF only Yagi which is directional but it picked up both analog 25, 31, 68, and 60 as well and digital 12 before June 12.
On June 12, I lost analog 31 and did not gain digital 31. Just does not make sense to me. I will fix it however.

I have a UHF Yagi above my garage but inside since antennas are restricted here. I have a coax ran to the TV cable box on the side of my garage. I disconnected the TV cable feed years ago and fed the UHF antenna into the 4 way splitter that they had installed.
I am thinking that this splitter is about 12 years old and may not have a wide enough frequency range to pass RF 44 and RF 39. TV Cable never had real high frequencies years ago. So the splitter is suspected.
Also, there may be an unterminated port on the splitter that is causing some type of reflection on RF 44. Something sure is not normal if RF 44 is at their allowed power. RF 12 and WHAG, (RF 26) are very hot here. It is hard to mess them up by doing anything. Yet RF 44 is very weak. Really strange.

I am totally blocked from Washington, DC and Baltimore by a mountain. No solution to that. I probably could get something from Harrisburg, York, Lancaster if I made an effort, but maybe not from inside the Garage Loft.
I use Directv and get all locals from Both DC and the Central Pa area. I am very lucky as I have 2 of each network stations and a bunch of independents.

From my location WWPB-DT 31 has always been pretty solid, but have not noticed a consistently higher reading on my signal strength meter. (3-4 bars out of 10). WHAG-DT 25 is not very reliable, especially at night.(Only 1 bar out of 10) It must be the different antenna patterns causing this. Not too sure about WJAL-DT 68. I have only seen it twice here.

WHAG-DT 25, RF 26 in Hagerstown took their analog of the air early and used a helicopter to set a new Digital antenna on top of their existing tower on about June 11. Their transmitter is on top of the mountain at Clear Spring, Md, about 10 -12 miles WEST of Hagerstown and north of I-70. GREAT location however the location is hard to get to. They could not truck the 50 foot long antenna to the tower area. They had to lay on on the ground out in the open, connect it to a helicopter and lift it to the top of the mountain and set it on top of the tower. Very high antenna because of the mountain top location. They are supposedly using 575 KW of power, lower than some other stations on UHF, but the good height gives them fantastic range.
Having a new antenna might be giving them good coverage too.

WJAL is further north and in Pennsylvania along the same mountain. They are on RF 39 but with lower power.

chamb,

The splitter could be a possibility I had several that were only rated to something like 500Mhz, for me 31 is much stronger than 25, 31 @ 100% 25 @ 80% on the meter also 68 is @ 100%, but I'm less than 5 miles from the tower.

Tivo had a message on it saying that they have updated the channels and it now has guide data for 30-1 to 30-5.

Does anyone know anything about the MCN (metro chinese network)? I have done some google searches and came up with nothing other than the stuff on the Mhz site. I would love to find a source for useful guide data so I have some clue what is on the channel. Also the sound quality is horrible. The Mhz site says something about it coming from a company in Rockvile.

chamb,

The splitter could be a possibility I had several that were only rated to something like 500Mhz, for me 31 is much stronger than 25, 31 @ 100% 25 @ 80% on the meter also 68 is @ 100%, but I'm less than 5 miles from the tower.

Right now, I am not using a preamp so to be sure the preamp is not contributing to the problem. WHAG-DT (RF 26) is strong. WMPB-DT RF-44 is not watchable but I do see something at times. Very weak.

I am thinking I need to get to the splitter and maybe replace it. I may take a small tv up in the loft above my garage and place it very near the antenna and see what I get. Not going to be easy with no floor to stand on. A piece of plywood may be in order so I can maneuver above the garage ceiling. Might be easier to just buy a new splitter and place it in the TV Cable box. It may just be that the splitter was able to pass RF-31 but not RF-44. I do not have RF-39 either, so maybe it will not pass that frequency either.
I am about 20 miles east of the transmitters, so any mismatch might be enough to cause problems.

Anybody know if WHAG in Hagerstown might now jump on the Directv system.

Franklin County, Pa residents now have DC and Central Pa stations being fed to them. But WHAG in Hagerstown is only on the DISH system and not Directv.
I suspect Directv and WHAG had a squabble and could not agree on placing WHAG on DIRECTV. I am only guessing on that.

I suspect that it was expensive to get the WHAG signal up-linked to Directv since there was no satellite up-link ground station in Hagerstown.

But now, WHAG-DT could probably be received off the air in DC and placed with the other DC stations for a ride to directv via the satellite uplink in DC.
Thanks to no WHAG on Directv, I watch NBC on WGAL-DT from Lancaster or WRC-DT in DC via the Directv System. Time for WHAG & Directv to bury the hatchet and get the station on the satellite. Yes, I can receive the over the air WHAG-DT and watch it, but many times do not as I have two good NBC stations on Directv.
WHAG is the loser when I report my viewing habits to the pollster that determines viewer count during the sweeps.

My friend in Hagerstown has direct tv and I thought he got WHAG. I will have to ask to be sure.

I bought an 8 way splitter splitter that has a power supply that works good. I only use 5 tv's with it. I use to have a 4-way eagle aspen splitter that a friend gave me that was on his porch when he bought his house. I believe it is an old direct tv sat splitter, but it had a port for an antenna feed also and it worked good. Something like that might work well for you. You could use it for your sat and antenna, but would need a diplexer to split the signal at your receiver with 2 short coaxial cords with one going to your sat in and one to your antenna in.

I'm going to be riding through the area on Friday and I'm wondering if you think it's possible to get WTAJ-DT with a Silver Sensor anywhere along I-81. That's a station I would just love to have data for, but I don't know if I can get it.

Anything else I should look for while I'm in the area of Winchester through Shippensburg?
Trip,

Try pulling over to the side of the On-Ramp of I-81 NB at Exit 10. I recommend at the top of the ramp. It should be a good spot for WHAG-DT, WJAL-DT, WTAJ-DT, and maybe even WWPX-DT, MPT, and WV PBS.

If you pull over into the construction equipment parking area of the Off-Ramp of NB I-81 Exit 10, you may even be able to see what you get from Baltimore, D.C., and York/Lancaster.

NOTE: You know that you'll be less than a quarter mile from WJAL-DT offices at that point. It's just West of I-81. You'll see it from the ramps.

I usually stop at the West Virginia rest stops (free food) and I usually get WWPX there. I tried getting W08EE-D last time at the one on the MD border but didn't succeed. This time, I'll try it on the one on VA border rest stop.

I will consider that location. You really think WTAJ is a possibility? Will I need my amp?

- Trip

My friend in Hagerstown has direct tv and I thought he got WHAG. I will have to ask to be sure.

I bought an 8 way splitter splitter that has a power supply that works good. I only use 5 tv's with it. I use to have a 4-way eagle aspen splitter that a friend gave me that was on his porch when he bought his house. I believe it is an old direct tv sat splitter, but it had a port for an antenna feed also and it worked good. Something like that might work well for you. You could use it for your sat and antenna, but would need a diplexer to split the signal at your receiver with 2 short coaxial cords with one going to your sat in and one to your antenna in.

Nope - WHAG is on DISH but not Directv. I have Directv and it is not there. They need to fix this.

<snip>

I suspect that it was expensive to get the WHAG signal up-linked to Directv since there was no satellite up-link ground station in Hagerstown.

But now, WHAG-DT could probably be received off the air in DC and placed with the other DC stations for a ride to directv via the satellite uplink in DC.
Thanks to no WHAG on Directv, I watch NBC on WGAL-DT from Lancaster or WRC-DT in DC via the Directv System. Time for WHAG & Directv to bury the hatchet and get the station on the satellite. Yes, I can receive the over the air WHAG-DT and watch it, but many times do not as I have two good NBC stations on Directv.
WHAG is the loser when I report my viewing habits to the pollster that determines viewer count during the sweeps.

Not that it matters for your post, but if it's like how they do it here in Baltimore, they send the signals via fiber to DirecTV. They do receive the signals off-air though, which has caused problems in the past - their receiver has developed a lip-sync issue.

Anyone have good news using the 7694P in the 21113 area code pointed directly at the DC stations (less than 25 miles away)? I am looking to place this on my roof (fairly good clear line of site to the towers) and want to get 7, 9, 11 and channel 13. The gain on all channels look good according to their tech specs. Thanks in advance.

I just ordered this antenna on Saturday. I''lll let you know how it works out.
I'm in Oella MD (well above the river though) and am hoping to pick up both DC and Baltimore.

I am thinking I need to get to the splitter and maybe replace it. I may take a small tv up in the loft above my garage and place it very near the antenna and see what I get. Not going to be easy with no floor to stand on. A piece of plywood may be in order so I can maneuver above the garage ceiling. Might be easier to just buy a new splitter and place it in the TV Cable box.
Are you using a CECB? If so, could you troubleshoot by putting the CECB ahead of the splitter at the cable box and feeding the channel 3 output to your sets? Less risk of falling through the ceiling, that way. ;)

(I agree your splitter and/or distribution coax is suspect.)

Not that it matters for your post, but if it's like how they do it here in Baltimore, they send the signals via fiber to DirecTV. They do receive the signals off-air though, which has caused problems in the past - their receiver has developed a lip-sync issue.

I am guessing, but I suspect the cost of a fiber link from Hagerstown to DC is too expensive. I really have no idea if the signal could be pulled off the air and placed on an up-link to Directv. But it sounds like it is a good idea. It should work. I suspect if they have trouble with it, the hardware or software just has a problem that needs to be fixed. This is all sort of new technology, so it may take a year or so until somebody really gets it done right.

Are you using a CECB? If so, could you troubleshoot by putting the CECB ahead of the splitter at the cable box and feeding the channel 3 output to your sets? Less risk of falling through the ceiling, that way. ;)

(I agree your splitter and/or distribution coax is suspect.)

I have one CECB and some digital sets. I might take the CECB outside to the splitter and pull the feed from the antenna off the splitter. I would only have 25 feet of coax from the antenna to the splitter. See what I get there before the splitter.

I am the original poster from yesterday that complained about not being able to get WWPB-DT 31. I do live further away from their transmitter than you do, but on Analog, it was much stronger that 25 analog. On digital, I barely have 31 and 25 is strong. I just do not understand it. I have the knowledge to troubleshoot it whenever I get some time. Even adding a UHF amp does not fix it. Rotating the antenna does not fix it.
I have a high gain UHF only Yagi which is directional but it picked up both analog 25, 31, 68, and 60 as well and digital 12 before June 12.
On June 12, I lost analog 31 and did not gain digital 31. Just does not make sense to me. I will fix it however.

I have a UHF Yagi above my garage but inside since antennas are restricted here. I have a coax ran to the TV cable box on the side of my garage. I disconnected the TV cable feed years ago and fed the UHF antenna into the 4 way splitter that they had installed.
I am thinking that this splitter is about 12 years old and may not have a wide enough frequency range to pass RF 44 and RF 39. TV Cable never had real high frequencies years ago. So the splitter is suspected.
Also, there may be an unterminated port on the splitter that is causing some type of reflection on RF 44. Something sure is not normal if RF 44 is at their allowed power. RF 12 and WHAG, (RF 26) are very hot here. It is hard to mess them up by doing anything. Yet RF 44 is very weak. Really strange.

I am totally blocked from Washington, DC and Baltimore by a mountain. No solution to that. I probably could get something from Harrisburg, York, Lancaster if I made an effort, but maybe not from inside the Garage Loft.
I use Directv and get all locals from Both DC and the Central Pa area. I am very lucky as I have 2 of each network stations and a bunch of independents.

It could be the loss thru your splitter. But also you mention an outdoor antenna restriction. One of the 'good' things that the FCC did was eliminate those restrictions. It is illegal for any community to restrict the use of antennas because it restricts your ability to obtain OTA signals.

As Trip posted, WUTB-DT 24 has a highly directional antenna pattern. They have interference issues on UHF 41 that they did not have on analog 24. WUTB-DT has been running at 200 kW, but filed a maximization application to increase to 290 kW last year. Checking the FCC database, WUTB now has a construction permit for the 290 kW, so the FCC must have granted their application recently. Don't know if WUTB is still at 200 kW or if they have or will soon increase to 290 kW. I can get WUTB-DT 24 in Sterling, but it is on the weak side compared to WMAR, WBFF, WNUV in Baltimore.

However, an increase to 290 kW is not likely to help that much to those located in the deep notches of the antenna pattern. To see the antenna pattern, go to http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=60552, scroll down to channel 42, digital, Construction permit, Effective Radiated Power: 290 kW. Click on the Relative Field Polar Plot to see just how directional the antenna pattern is.

To get My Network programming in HD (or what is left of My Network programming), work on getting WDCA My 20 which is operating at 500 kW on UHF 35 in NW DC.

Here's what someone at WUTB had to say about their signal:

The FCC is about to or intends to approve our request for maximization.

It will give us 90 kilowatts more, bringing us up to 290.

Our radiation pattern will not change. We currently do have a radiation pattern to the south, although in your case, perhaps not far enough or there is some obstacle or terrain issues. We have viewers that can pick us up in the Washington DMA and Southern Maryland . And actually 22 is interfering more with us then us with them at this point.

If they've increased power, it didn't make any difference although I now see a marked increase in power coming from WJZ (but not WBAL which I can get but with low signal strength). One thing that I have noticed since WJZ and WBAL moved back to VHF - I no longer have a problem with aircraft induced multipath which was horrendous when they were on UHF (I live in the BWI flight path).

Hi Folks,

I am in northeast Baltimore (Hamilton area). I have a roof mounted antenna that a satellite provider installed when they relied on ota for local HD (I do not subscribe to satellite service). I used to get great HD reception but after the switchover, I'm seeing a lot of pixellation from WBAL NBC, WNUV CW, and WBFF FOX. I used to also get most D.C. stations. Antenna web says I should get a medium directional antenna. Any suggestions on the antenna or additional info?

Thanks!

All,

Thanks ProjectSHO89 for the advice. I'm thinking I may go with it.

I did a little more research and was wondering if the Antennas Direct DB8 Multidirectional HDTV Antenna would allow me to pick up WUSA and WJLA from my location. I think this antenna would be a little more HOA friendly on my roof than most.

I noticed that some people were combining the DB4 with an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for the VHF signals. Would I have to combine an antenna like that to the DB8? I was thinking I wouldn't from its specs but I don't really know too much about antennas.

Here are my tvfool.com results again. This time I added height.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618a93cc67f3bf

Thanks

All,

Thanks ProjectSHO89 for the advice. I'm thinking I may go with it.

I did a little more research and was wondering if the Antennas Direct DB8 Multidirectional HDTV Antenna would allow me to pick up WUSA and WJLA from my location. I think this antenna would be a little more HOA friendly on my roof than most.

I noticed that some people were combining the DB4 with an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for the VHF signals. Would I have to combine an antenna like that to the DB8? I was thinking I wouldn't from its specs but I don't really know too much about antennas.

Here are my tvfool.com results again. This time I added height.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618a93cc67f3bf

Thanks

The DB8 by itself is unlikely to get your high-VHF channels out of DC. You'll have have to add in one of the antennas such as the Y5-713 or AD C5 for your high-VHF reception.

Of course, you can always tell your HOA to go pound sand since there is very little under federal law that they can do to stop you.

The Db2 or Db4 would work fine for the UHF channels that are in the green TVfool zone. The DB8 would be overkill and would put you at substantial risk of tuner overload.

Tonight, WJLA's "RTN" content is gone; there are dancing horz green lines instead. 7.1 and 7.2 are normal.

This is not a RF issue; WJLA is 100% solid here

1. Not really HD related but does anyone else have a distorted picture on Bravo? Everything is green.

2. Does anyone know if WBOC-DT is looking into having 21-2 go HD? It's been done before on ch 45 or 54 I forgot which one. There is a lot of content that should be in HD on that channel especially with it being a FOX affiliate. I don't even think they have the equipment necessary to show syndicated shows in HD on 16-1. Entertainment Tonight is in SD and Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy are on 21-2 which is in SD anyway.

Tonight, WJLA's "RTN" content is gone; there are dancing horz green lines instead. 7.1 and 7.2 are normal.

This is not a RF issue; WJLA is 100% solid hereYes,

I noticed this too.

On another note, WUTB-DT 24 is showing up as 41.3 on my TV. Anybody else experiencing this?

1. Not really HD related but does anyone else have a distorted picture on Bravo? Everything is green.Looks fine on Fios; both SD & HD.

does anybody know if wbal is going to get more power can't get it up here in harford county.

does anybody know if wbal is going to get more power can't get it up here in harford county.

So far, nothing. If there's an FCC filing for more power, I'll definitely post about it.

- Trip

Tonight, WJLA's "RTN" content is gone; there are dancing horz green lines instead. 7.1 and 7.2 are normal.

This is not a RF issue; WJLA is 100% solid here

At 11:17 PM, I've got 7.1 and 7.2 with picture and audio.

I do have 7.3 RTV (It takes a Thief) with picture but no audio.

Anybody else seeing a signal drops on 13 tonight?

After days of markedly improved signal, my WJZ signal readings have been barely better than WBAL at times this evening. Anybody else seeing this or is it something local?

And what's up with the sound on WMDO 47.2? Insignia gets nothing but silence, DTVPal gets sound for a couple of seconds and then silence if coming from any channel other than 47.1, in which case it gets silence from the start also. But a cheapie 13" TruTech gets the sound just fine. Wtf??

Currently a black screen on RTN7: OTA, Cox, and FiOS.

At 11:17 PM, I've got 7.1 and 7.2 with picture and audio.

I do have 7.3 RTV (It takes a Thief) with picture but no audio.


...if you want to see AND hear, too!

Anybody else seeing a signal drops on 13 tonight?
...
Currently a black screen on RTN7: OTA, Cox, and FiOS.
I don't see a change in WJZ 13 tonight, getting around 6 out of 10 bars. I did lose WJZ several days ago, but I fixed that by=y relocating and re-aiming the upper VHF antenna. But I expect to lose WJZ for good when they put up the new directional antenna.

WJLA 7.3 RTN is back to a blank screen. Likely having technical problems with the satellite downlink for the RTN feed or in the signal path in the station - or the RTN feed is messed up.

I don't see a change in WJZ 13 tonight, getting around 6 out of 10 bars.
I was afraid of that. Looks like my channel 13 interference is back; that'll mean a complaint to the FCC if it continues.

<grrrr> :mad:

Yes,

I noticed this too.

On another note, WUTB-DT 24 is showing up as 41.3 on my TV. Anybody else experiencing this?

Yes, I had also noticed it. My Dish VIP 622 and 722 receivers can no longer receive WUTB-DT24 on 24. When I rescanned they mapped to RF 41. Their OTA signal on RF 41.3 has all of the PSIP data except for the correct call sign which now appears as "DTV". This may have something to do with WUTB increasing their ERP from 200kW to 290kW. Maybe they are tweaking their new signal and haven't gotten around to turning on the PSIP generator to switchover their PSIP data from their RF channel to their virtual channel.

No signal. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

46 looks like pure 3-degree background.

No signal. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

46 looks like pure 3-degree background.

What? Looks OK to me!

OK, I had to come in and fix it, but it looks fine now...

The control UPS fried - I had to replace it.

Question on MHZ Networks (DTV CH 30-1 - 30-10):

I have a TivoHD and I get good signal strength on MHZ networks channels 30-1 through 30-10. However, I don't get a picture on channels 30-1 - 30-5. Channels 30-6 - 30-10 are good. The freq assignment on the Tivo list appears accurate...its 30.

Anyone else have this problem?

Thanks!

-Brandon

Just FYI for anyone else with this problem Tivo updated the listings and I get all channels from the Mhz Networks via Tivo.

Ok, I don't know anything about Ohms, frequency, antenna's or any of that. Found this site after trying to figure out why channel 7 & 9 seemed to stop working. I think after reading I know what the problem is and what I need to do to fix it (I have a UHF antenna, one of the square one's with bowties?). My question is are there any sites or resources to explain how to properly install a second antenna and all of the connections? I tried contacting Fairfax Antenna's but haven't gotten any response. Thanks for the help.

hello,

I'm an antenna novice looking for some recommendations -
I went through the steps at AntennaWeb, and based on my
location near downtown Silver Spring MD, it says that I need
a "Small Multi-Directional Antenna"

Just wondering what other people out there in the DC/MD/VA are using?
It seems like Winegard makes a lot of good antennas, but honestly, I'm getting lost with all the different models, and I'm not sure how to differentiate based on the tech specs.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, I wondering, would it be okay to have an electrician install a rooftop antenna or do you need to get dedicated "antenna installers" to have it done?

thanks,
steve

I am surprised I get a signal as I live in southern PA. It could be I am actually getting channel 49-1 (Redlion, PA) that broadcasts on 30-1 and the guide is showing it as the DC 30-1. I will check this tonight.

Okay, I checked and I am getting a signal from DC for 30-1 (30-2, etc.) but still no picture or sound. I guess the signal is too weak, but the channels do get picked up in a scan. Not sure I am missing much on the stations anyway.

Also, I wondering, would it be okay to have an electrician install a rooftop antenna or do you need to get dedicated "antenna installers" to have it done?
Steve,

You could do it yourself. Have you taken a look through this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623

Also, you should post a link to your http://www.TVFool.com/ results.

I updated the numbers on the initial post of this thread. Please proofread and let me know of any changes that need to be made.

Hard to Believe that this thread has been going on for nearly six years now. :D I want to thank everyone who participates regularly for making this more than just a thread, but a community.

...

I knew that I'd miss something cool when I go out-of-town. I too want to extend my thanks to CycloneGT for the excellent work in this thread. For those of you who responded with minor edits and updates, could you verify the GoogleDocs version of the who-has-what chart (link in my signature) is accurate? Thanks in advance!

-SUO

... Since there are several lines in the basement run for various reasons what's the easiest way to tell which is connected to which? I was hoping that since I don't have a small TV to connect to in the basement could I simply connect a battery to the two conductors and then use a multimeter to look for the same voltage on one of the coax cables in the basement? Is there a simpler method?

Bigfork

If you have access to the first and last few feet, then check the markings on the cable. Usually the production run prints, every few feet, a "foot counter" (along with some other cable ID information (i.e type). Estimate the length of the cable (+/- 30') and check the other end. The one that is closest is likely the same cable. i.e. at one end you might find a number "3121" at the other you might find "3192" meaning the cable is 71 feet long between those two points. (i.e. 3192-3121=71).

Its also very unlikely that you will have two cables from different production runs that will have "foot index #' close on both ends.

Hi guys,

I was planning to put an antenna in the attic and it seems when the house was built they did put a RG cable (about 20 years old now) from the attic to the back of the house. I want to test the cable to see if it's working or not. How can i test it?

Thanks

No need to test, just try it. it should be fine.

If you have problems and don't know if its the antenna pointing thing or the cable, then get a 100' cable, and temporarily bypass the house cable. Just make a temp run from the antenna, down the attic stairs and hallway to wherever your tuner is.

You could also use that same temp cable, and hook it up to the coax output of a VCR or DVD player, and connect it to the coax cable in the attic (again just temporarily run it down the hallway and up the attic stairs for the test.)
Of course, you will need a barrel connection (male-male) to tie the two cables in the attic.

Ok, I don't know anything about Ohms, frequency, antenna's or any of that. Found this site after trying to figure out why channel 7 & 9 seemed to stop working. I think after reading I know what the problem is and what I need to do to fix it (I have a UHF antenna, one of the square one's with bowties?). My question is are there any sites or resources to explain how to properly install a second antenna and all of the connections? I tried contacting Fairfax Antenna's but haven't gotten any response. Thanks for the help.
If you have a bowtie UHF antenna, can you tell us how many bowties and what model number? Rooftop or attic mount? Using a pre-amp? Are you getting all the other DC stations which are on UHF with your UHF antenna - WRC 4 (RF 48), WTTG 5 (RF 36), WFDC 14 (RF 15), WDCA 20 (RF 35), WETA 26 (RF 27 and at only 90 kW), WNVC 30.1 to 30.5, WNVT 30.6 to 30.10, WHUT 32 (RF 33), WDCW 50?

If you are getting all of those from Bealton, then your UHF antenna is doing ok for UHF. Then you need to add a upper VHF (7 to 13) antenna to get WJLA 7 and WUSA 9. Generally not that difficult to do. From Bealton, you should go for a longer range upper VHF antenna such as the Winegard YA-1713 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=YA1713). 100 inches long, 35" wide. Assuming you have a rooftop mount, put the upper VHF antenna several feet below the UHF antenna, aim it at NW DC. Combine the two antennas with a VHF-UHF signal joiner, such as this: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ. If you have RG-59 coaxial in the cable run to the antenna, this would be a good time to replace it with good quality RG-6 (RG-6 has less loss per foot for UHF than RG-59).

Technical website, but should provide info that you can use: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html. One warning is that I bet there is a major run on upper VHF antenna at the on-line dealers, so I hope solidsignal and the others stocked up in advance. Good luck!

I'm in Purcellville, VA (about 8 miles West of Leesburg, VA). I have one of those pizza-box square OTA antennas hooked up to my HDTV (Samsung HL61A750). Prior to the DTV transition, I was receiving 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 20-1, 26-1, 50-1 and a few misc MD HDTV stations as well. I can't exactly pin when it happened, but I've now lost all my main network DTV stations (7-1, 9-1, 50-1). I'm only picking up 5-1 (and I've never received 4-1). Can anyone help me figure out what's going on?

I checked the cables, I've re-scanned the TV a bunch of times and had no success. Did something change with the stations AFTER the DTV transition? Why would I lose channels after the transition?

Just reposting from the old Delaware thread to see if I can get a response.

Does anyone know if WBOC plans on fixing their signal to be able to broadcast two HD channels(16-1 and 21-2)? Just thought about it while switching between WTTG FOX 5 from D.C. and FOX 21 Delmarva. I remember WNUV 54 experimenting with running a 1080i HD signal on the main channel(54-1) and a 720p HD signal on the subchannel (54-2) when they had a subchannel.

I'm in Purcellville, VA (about 8 miles West of Leesburg, VA). I have one of those pizza-box square OTA antennas hooked up to my HDTV (Samsung HL61A750). Prior to the DTV transition, I was receiving 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 20-1, 26-1, 50-1 and a few misc MD HDTV stations as well. I can't exactly pin when it happened, but I've now lost all my main network DTV stations (7-1, 9-1, 50-1). I'm only picking up 5-1 (and I've never received 4-1). Can anyone help me figure out what's going on?

I checked the cables, I've re-scanned the TV a bunch of times and had no success. Did something change with the stations AFTER the DTV transition? Why would I lose channels after the transition?
WJLA 7, WUSA 9, WDCW 50 all flashed cut back to their analog broadcast channels. Are you still getting WETA 26, WDCA 20? Are you now able to get WHAG 25?

WDCW 50 changed from UHF 51 at 125 kW to UHF 50 at 122 kW which is a very small change in power, so you should still get it. One step to try is to disconnect the antenna coaxial cable from TV, do a scan to clear out all stations, then reconnect the antenna and repeat the scan.

You very likely need a better antenna for upper VHF reception to get WJLA 7 and WUSA 9. WRC 4 on RF 48 should be receivable in Purcellville, although there is the possibility of interference from analog low power WAZW 48 in Winchester. Your options are likely to either get a upper VHF antenna (see my post to the person in Bealton, VA) or to get a better combined upper VHF and UHF antenna such as one of the Winegard 76xx series (which will be much bigger than a pizza box).

I'm in NOVA, Arlington to be specific. For some reason I still can't get FIOS and I'm beyond disgusted with the PQ of Comcast's "HD". Having said that, has anybody in the area change to DirecTV? How do you like it? I'm pretty sure I'm gonna take the plunge, was just hoping to get the opinion/s of somebody who already has.

I'm in NOVA, Arlington to be specific. For some reason I still can't get FIOS and I'm beyond disgusted with the PQ of Comcast's "HD". Having said that, has anybody in the area change to DirecTV? How do you like it? I'm pretty sure I'm gonna take the plunge, was just hoping to get the opinion/s of somebody who already has.

I had DirecTV since they first came out in 1994 until 2008 when I switched to Comcast. (FIOS is in my neighborhood and will be available shortly). I can say that I will never go back to DirecTV, but my reasons may be different than yours. Here are the reasons I wrote up back in March 2008 a month after I switched:

1) I am saving $480 this year with Comcast over what I was pay for
DirecTV + Comcast Internet + Vonage and I'm getting Starz and
unlimited phone calls. With a plan to get rid of my home phone by
the end of this promotion and by dropping the free premium channels,
I'll be saving $504/year in subsequent years.

2 ) It always bugged me that I was paying $58/mo for just Internet
form Comcast, when I can get it much cheaper with their TV service.

3) I get Internet, phone, and TV all on one bill from one company.

4) I don't have to have some DirecTV installer put up my 3rd large
satellite dish in 10 years for which I really could not find a good location for.

5) I don't have any commitment with Comcast where I would have a 2
year commitment with DirecTV.

6) I only need to run one coax cable to all TV sets which I already
have. DirecTV needs 4 cables from the dish, 2 cables to each DVR (I
only have one cable to my bedroom TV) and ethernet cables to be able
to use the new on demand, not to mention a phone line.

7) Cable is 2 way. DirecTV can't provide 2 way internet and can't
have true on demand without having to use Comcast internet.

8) I get Washington DC local channels on Comcast so I have no need for
an antenna and all the problems I have had trying to keep antenna
reception over the year.

9) I get more local channels in HD form Comcast.

10) The future of TV is downloading on demand content from the
internet. Not recording a show being broadcast at a specific time on
a specific channel and storing it on your local hard drive until you
want to watch it. DirecTV is tied into the broadcast time slot model.

11) The cable industry is moving toward open cable (tru2way), and I
think this time it will happen. Within about a years time you should
able to go to Best Buy and buy a DVR from Sony, Samsung, LG, etc.,
that you can just plug into any cable system.

12) Computer media centers and tuners all work with cable and not
DirecTV.

13) I think Comcast will more than keep up with DirecTV in HD
channels. Heck, I've had Comcast for a month and today they just gave
me 5 more HD channels. When Comcast turns off their analog channels
this year, that will free up 75 analog channels. With 2-3 HD channels
per analog channel that means they can add 150-225 additional HD
channels. If they go to SDV the can probably offer over 300 HD
channels. I can't believe that I would need more than that.

14) My Comcast Internet service over the past 4 years has been almost
perfect ,and Cable TV and Comcast Digital Voice seem good too.

^ one of the most important issues in times of constant change is item 5.

,,,has anybody in the area change to DirecTV? How do you like it? We've been happy with Dish Network. They have a great line of 3- and 4-tuner DVRs capable of recording up to 2 HD satellite channels and 2 OTA HD channels simultaneously. Almost all models with dual sat tuners can independently feed programs to 2 different TVs, although the TV2 output is SD-only. :(

Dish also offers the TurboHD packages, which are HD-only. Warning! These packages may be a good deal if you are trying to avoid paying for SD channels you will never watch. But the TurboHD packages may go away in the future because content providers insist on bundling SD with HD channels, and they effectively won't let Dish do what it started out to do (provide HD-only at a great price).

Finally, there's some 1080p content available on Dish that I don't believe DirectTV has.

If you have a bowtie UHF antenna, can you tell us how many bowties and what model number? Rooftop or attic mount? Using a pre-amp? Are you getting all the other DC stations which are on UHF with your UHF antenna - WRC 4 (RF 48), WTTG 5 (RF 36), WFDC 14 (RF 15), WDCA 20 (RF 35), WETA 26 (RF 27 and at only 90 kW), WNVC 30.1 to 30.5, WNVT 30.6 to 30.10, WHUT 32 (RF 33), WDCW 50?


I have a CM4228 mounted on the roof with a CM pre-amp (I think it's the really popular one that many people have, don't remember the model number). I get all of the other UHF channels mentioned. Would the Antenna Craft Y5-7-13 be enough for the VHF channels or do I need the larger antenna such as the Y10-7-13 or the Winegard you mentioned? You also said I need to make sure the VHF antenna is below the UHF. Just curious as to why that is? Also, how far apart do the two antenna's need to be? On different mounts? Last question is can I combine the two through my pre-amp? I'll have to check the RG-59 vs RG-6. I don't really know the difference in the two, but I'll see what's out there and make sure it's RG-6 once I gather what I need to fix the issue. FYI, I can get 7 & 9, but signal strength varies from 20-40 and cuts out more frequently than I'd care to live with. Sad since these two channels came in at 95+ before the switch. Thanks for all of the help!

I've updated the GoogleDocs chart with the following changes:

Reflected the Cox announcement of WHUT 32.2
Added iON 66 subchannels
Added channel numbers for FiOS additions

Can someone verify that these channels are now available on FiOS:

Spike HD 554
Comedy Central HD 690
MTV HD 710
VH 1 HD 717
CMT HD 721
Nick HD 752

Finally, my Cox bill states that MPT is not going to offer V-ME on 22.3. For my vantage point, it looks like they are using that subchannel to show an SD version of 22.1.

-SUO

Follow-up: Thanks all for the FiOS confirmations. I've updated the GoogleDocs chart. As far as WHUT, I'm only passing on what was mentioned in my most-recent Cox bill.

There's a 32-2 coming? Any word on what content it will have?

- Trip

There's a 32-2 coming? Any word on what content it will have?

- Trip

Speaking of WHUT, does anyone know if they're even planning on going HD?

I'm not sure. I do know that they're on the list of stations looking at Mobile DTV. Look for that to show up on a few stations in the area during the summer.

- Trip

Can someone verify that these channels are now available on FiOS:
Spike HD 554
Comedy Central HD 690
MTV HD 710
VH 1 HD 717
CMT HD 721
Nick HD 752

Yes, Verizon added the 6 Viacom channels to the Washington Metro market (and presumably the rest of the VHO) this morning. The channels are live, but not in the guide yet. When Verizon adds new channels, they typically don't show up in the guide until later in the day unless one forces a reload of the guide data.

It appears Comcast is getting closer to implementing Project Calvary in Montgomery county. I did a rescan yesterday on my digital ready TV and they have moved or renumbered the broadcast channels (HD) to more logical locations, also many basic channels are now unscrambled (along with Universal HD and TNT HD).

^ one of the most important issues in times of constant change is item 5.

Yeah I agree with that, the commitment is why i'm hesitant. I'm sure everybody has seen the thread with the comparison of PQ between FIOS and Comcast, my picture is as bad if not worse and it really burns me b/c I hate watching TV on it at all, kinda sucks when you spend $2000+ on a 52" LCD TV and you prefer watching your 8.5 year old 25" CRT for everyday cable viewing :( I just hope I can get FIOS soon, many of the surrounding streets have it, I'm wondering if its simply a matter of my apartment management company not wanting them to install it in our buildings? That alone would be reason enough for me to move.

Can someone verify that these channels are now available on FiOS:

Spike HD 554
Comedy Central HD 690
MTV HD 710
VH 1 HD 717
CMT HD 721
Nick HD 752

Up and running in Baltimore County.

I'm in Purcellville, VA (about 8 miles West of Leesburg, VA). I have one of those pizza-box square OTA antennas hooked up to my HDTV (Samsung HL61A750). Prior to the DTV transition, I was receiving 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 20-1, 26-1, 50-1 and a few misc MD HDTV stations as well. I can't exactly pin when it happened, but I've now lost all my main network DTV stations (7-1, 9-1, 50-1). I'm only picking up 5-1 (and I've never received 4-1). Can anyone help me figure out what's going on?

I checked the cables, I've re-scanned the TV a bunch of times and had no success. Did something change with the stations AFTER the DTV transition? Why would I lose channels after the transition?

I am south of Purcellville and am able to receive all of the stations you listed plus 4-1, 14-1, 24-1, 30-1, 45.1, 60-1, and 66-1. I installed a YA1713 high VHF and a DB8 UHF antenna amplified with a CM7777. They are in my attack pointing out of the gable end.

Some of the stations are actually stronger after the transisition (7-1, 9-1 and 50-1,

So it is possible with the right equipment.

I'm in Kensington, MD. I went from a UHF-only antenna to a Winegard HD-7000R, supposedly VHF/UHF/FM. I don't get a good signal from WUSA 9, occasional pixellation. All the other channels I'm more or less happy with. WUSA's digital signal was fine before the conversion. I do have a pre-amp at the antenna and an amplifier inside (signal is split to several devices). Anything I can do?

Councilmania

Keeping Tabs On The City Council's Activities So You Don't Have To

by Edward Ericson Jr.

On the agenda for March 16

Resolution 09-0119R Deployment of FiOS Services in Baltimore City through the Verizon Maryland Network. Asks for a reconstituted cable TV commission to join the Mayor's Office of Cable and Communications to tell the City Council why Verizon's FiOS service is available in surrounding jurisdictions but not in Baltimore City.

The Read: Comcast cable is the city's monopoly provider, and as such is supposed to be regulated in part by city government. One part of that regulatory system is the Cable Communications Advisory Commission. Councilman Cole discovered that the board has only six members--reflecting a City Council district system that was abolished about five years ago. "Even more troubling, I discovered that it doesn't exist," he says. Cole wants "someone" to appoint 14 new commissioners to this defunct board in order to hold hearings on why Verizon's FiOS system--a Comcast rival--has not yet been offered in Baltimore City. "I'll be blunt," Cole says. "I want FiOS in Baltimore." Councilman Bernard C. "Jack" Young (D-12th District) seconded that. "This service is not only cheaper, it's better," he says. "We were told it'd be years and years down the road before we would even be considered." Councilwoman Mary Pat Clarke (D-14th district) said she had gotten constituent e-mail blaming the City Council for holding up FiOS. "Ladies and gentlemen," she said, addressing the Comcast TV audience, "We are not holding up FiOS. Whatever it is, we want it."

Bill 09-0306 Tax Sales--Deferral for Unemployed. Would implement a one-year delay on the sale of unemployed people's homes for non-payment of property taxes.

The Read: Councilwoman Agnes Welch (D-9th District) introduced this at the suggestion of the African American Housing Coalition, a new organization with "easily 50 members," according to James Crockett, who answers the phone at the number provided in the bill. Crockett says coalition members are realtors, appraisers, loan officers, underwriters, and housing counselors. "Because of the economy, we know that a lot of people are out of work and can't pay their taxes," he says. He describes the organization as "a movement" similar to the old civil rights movement, with no officers, per se. Welch lauded the group's idea to the council. "They would have made money on these [tax] sales," she says. "But they wanted to help."

"I always thought that FiOS was a soccer team in the European league." --Councilman Robert Curran (D-3rd District)

The next City Council meeting is scheduled for March 30 at 5 p.m.

© 2009 Baltimore City Paper

http://www.citypaper.com/printStory.asp?id=17771

I have a CM4228 mounted on the roof with a CM pre-amp (I think it's the really popular one that many people have, don't remember the model number). I get all of the other UHF channels mentioned. Would the Antenna Craft Y5-7-13 be enough for the VHF channels or do I need the larger antenna such as the Y10-7-13 or the Winegard you mentioned? You also said I need to make sure the VHF antenna is below the UHF. Just curious as to why that is? Also, how far apart do the two antenna's need to be? On different mounts? Last question is can I combine the two through my pre-amp? I'll have to check the RG-59 vs RG-6. I don't really know the difference in the two, but I'll see what's out there and make sure it's RG-6 once I gather what I need to fix the issue. FYI, I can get 7 & 9, but signal strength varies from 20-40 and cuts out more frequently than I'd care to live with. Sad since these two channels came in at 95+ before the switch. Thanks for all of the help!
If you have a CM 7777, it has separate switchable inputs for VHF and UHF. The UHF input can be switched to either UHF/VHF or UHF only. You could also insert a Pico Macom USVJ combiner into the cable run to the pre-amp and connect the VHF antenna that way as the USVJ has a DC power cutoff to the VHF signal path. Since VHF has less signal loss through co-axial cable, it is not uncommon to have a pre-amp for the UHF channels, but pass the VHF without a amp.

You do not have to mount the upper VHF antenna below the UHF antenna. You could mount it above the CM 4228. Generally, VHF antennas are mounted below the UHF (when using 2 antennas) because the VHF antenna is usually heavier and larger. Also, VHF propagates better than UHF closer to the ground, so most of the time, the UHF antenna is mounted higher of the two. The rule of thumb is to have several feet vertically between the antennas if possible.

If you getting all those stations with the CM 4228, the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 is likely to do the job. But you are pretty far away from DC and WUSA-DT 9 is not running at strong power for upper VHF, so it might not. Unless you are looking to pull in VHF stations over a spread in azimuth, you can go with the more directional and higher gain and longer Winegard YA-1713. It is $40 at solidsignal and comes with a 75 ohm co-axial connection.

I'm in Kensington, MD. I went from a UHF-only antenna to a Winegard HD-7000R, supposedly VHF/UHF/FM. I don't get a good signal from WUSA 9, occasional pixellation. All the other channels I'm more or less happy with. WUSA's digital signal was fine before the conversion. I do have a pre-amp at the antenna and an amplifier inside (signal is split to several devices). Anything I can do?
Is the HD-7000R mounted in the attic or outdoors? Tried different locations and/or aims for the antenna? There is the possibility that the combination of the pre-amp and distribution amp is overloading the physical VHF channels, but I would expect that to happen to WJLA 7 first. Otherwise you may need more gain for upper VHF.

You should contact WUSA and tell them you can't get their signal reliably. I'm not sure why WUSA has not filed for increased power since so many other upper VHF stations that flash cut back to VHF are banging on the FCC's door (yelling, Scotty, we need more power!)

I had DirecTV since they first came out in 1994 until 2008 when I switched to Comcast. (FIOS is in my neighborhood and will be available shortly). I can say that I will never go back to DirecTV, but my reasons may be different than yours. Here are the reasons I wrote up back in March 2008 a month after I switched:

1) I am saving $480 this year with Comcast over what I was pay for
DirecTV + Comcast Internet + Vonage and I'm getting Starz and
unlimited phone calls. With a plan to get rid of my home phone by
the end of this promotion and by dropping the free premium channels,
I'll be saving $504/year in subsequent years.

2 ) It always bugged me that I was paying $58/mo for just Internet
form Comcast, when I can get it much cheaper with their TV service.

3) I get Internet, phone, and TV all on one bill from one company.

4) I don't have to have some DirecTV installer put up my 3rd large
satellite dish in 10 years for which I really could not find a good location for.

5) I don't have any commitment with Comcast where I would have a 2
year commitment with DirecTV.

6) I only need to run one coax cable to all TV sets which I already
have. DirecTV needs 4 cables from the dish, 2 cables to each DVR (I
only have one cable to my bedroom TV) and ethernet cables to be able
to use the new on demand, not to mention a phone line.

7) Cable is 2 way. DirecTV can't provide 2 way internet and can't
have true on demand without having to use Comcast internet.

8) I get Washington DC local channels on Comcast so I have no need for
an antenna and all the problems I have had trying to keep antenna
reception over the year.

9) I get more local channels in HD form Comcast.

10) The future of TV is downloading on demand content from the
internet. Not recording a show being broadcast at a specific time on
a specific channel and storing it on your local hard drive until you
want to watch it. DirecTV is tied into the broadcast time slot model.

11) The cable industry is moving toward open cable (tru2way), and I
think this time it will happen. Within about a years time you should
able to go to Best Buy and buy a DVR from Sony, Samsung, LG, etc.,
that you can just plug into any cable system.

12) Computer media centers and tuners all work with cable and not
DirecTV.

13) I think Comcast will more than keep up with DirecTV in HD
channels. Heck, I've had Comcast for a month and today they just gave
me 5 more HD channels. When Comcast turns off their analog channels
this year, that will free up 75 analog channels. With 2-3 HD channels
per analog channel that means they can add 150-225 additional HD
channels. If they go to SDV the can probably offer over 300 HD
channels. I can't believe that I would need more than that.

14) My Comcast Internet service over the past 4 years has been almost
perfect ,and Cable TV and Comcast Digital Voice seem good too.

As a D* subscriber who thought he'd never get Satellite, I'd like to response. I'll try to keep it as fact based and keep opinions to a minimum.

1, 2 3 - I'm paying $43 for just Internet through Comcast. They told me it would be raised, but it never did go up. Call and ask for a lower rate, can't hurt. And the same with asking for premium channels. When I hit my 5 year mark with D*, they gave me a year of showtime free. And I prefer my separate bills. A few smaller bills makes it look like I'm paying less, but that's just me. :D Plus, since my phone, cable, and sat bills are due at different times, I can spread out the damage.

4 - My dish is exactly where I wanted it. Sometimes you get a good installer, sometimes you don't.

5 - Can't argue the contract.

6 - D* is moving to SVM, and it is slowly trickling out. It only runs one cable per box, even DVRs. And yes an ethernet cable is needed for on demand downloading. But a phone cord is no longer required. Ethernet can also be used for sharing DVR contents out to home computers, as well as viewing pictures and music from your PC.

7 - No arguement here

8 - I get DC locals as well through D*, without an antenna. What I can also do that you can't do on a Comcast box is connect an antenna, and get the antenna channels, get program listings, and record them as well.

9 - Comcast does have more HD local. What I do like about D*'s local service, is when I want to watch my locals, I tune to that channel, for SD or HD. There are seperate feeds, but I turn off the SD feed so when I put in "4" it's WRC in HD.

10 - Granted, D* doesn't have the network shows in their version of on demand, but it still has I believe most of the same on demand shows all the national cable channels offer.

11 - Remember when Cablecard was going to be compatible with everything, and you wouldn't have to use a box for anything. I'm just saying that what tru2way says it is and what is delivered are likely to be two very different things. Cable companies won't give up the revenue from renting boxes that easily.

12 - bSkyb, the satellite company in England, will soon offer the ability to watch TV from an Xbox 360. I'm sure that's a great test market before bringing D* to the 360. D* also showed the DirecTV box that would connect to a PC and use it as a media center at CES in 2008. yes, that was more than a year ago, but it was shown, so it's still a possibilty.

13 - D* still has plenty of room for satellite feed growth as well, and they right now do have more HD than Comcast.

14 - Like I said, my Internet is through Comcast, and I can't complain about that. But again, I like the ability to have OTA linked directly to my sat boxes so that if D* is down, and that's usually due to bad weather, I can still get my locals via the antenna without having to change to a differnet input.

Just my two cents from a happy D* customer.

I'm in Kensington, MD. I went from a UHF-only antenna to a Winegard HD-7000R, supposedly VHF/UHF/FM. I don't get a good signal from WUSA 9, occasional pixellation. All the other channels I'm more or less happy with. WUSA's digital signal was fine before the conversion. I do have a pre-amp at the antenna and an amplifier inside (signal is split to several devices). Anything I can do?

Kensington is only a few miles from the towers in Tenleytown, correct? That antenna should be adequate for such a location. I have something similar (CM 2001) and it works fine here, six miles away.

Unless you have some sort of terrain obstruction, the signals you are receiving there should be extremely strong. Since you said 'inside' for your amp, I'm assuming you have the antenna outside. You don't need a preamp, and probably don't need a distribution amp either. How many devices are you connecting? One thought I have is that the second harmonic from an FM station could be affecting channel 9, and the preamp is making it worse. Channel 9 is 186-192mhz, and if I recall correctly WTGB 94.7 is close by. Its second harmonic at 189.4mhz is in 9's range. Unfortunately, that kind of thing isn't as easy to see and test in the digital world. How did analog 9 look?

The amount of signal you get at a close-in location is often underestimated. Yesterday I connected 30dB worth of attenuators to my already split-in-two antenna feed from a widely-panned antenna (Winegard HD-1080, below the CM on the mast), connected by some 50 feet of coax, and while the off-axis stations like 24 from Fairfax and the super-weak WMDO-LD 8 were gone, every other DC station was in perfectly, even with only 1/1000th of the original signal.

I'm a Dish customer. I'm about to buy my 1st HD TV. I'm in a strange and maybe envious situation in that my HD provider options abound. I am in a well provisioned neighborhood with FiOS, Comcast, and Broadstripe (ex Millenium) systems available and obviously Dish and DirecTV.

I originally went to Dish after "suffering" with Comcast for way too many years and before FiOS was available. I currently have FiOS for internet (and very happy with it). I am quite happy with Dish service other than during the occasional heavy rain storm causing the usual "rain fade" dropout. But this is no worse than the constant dropouts I used to have with Comcast.

So, now that I'm just about ready to go HD what do you all have to say about the various providers available to me? Does one provide a superior HD picture vs. the competitors? Does satellite really beat out cable - I've heard that cable compresses far too much vs. satellite. Is DirecTV HD better than Dish or equivalent? I've seen FiOS HD at a friend's house and it looked great. But I have not seen Comcast (not that I'm all the excited to go back to them but I have heard that they have improved both their services and customer service).

Thanks in advance for advice & comments.

You don't need a preamp, and probably don't need a distribution amp either. How many devices are you connecting? One thought I have is that the second harmonic from an FM station could be affecting channel 9, and the preamp is making it worse.Agree 100%!! Absolutelty no amplification is recommended at you distance. I also agree that FM may be part of your problem. I just loaned my FM trap to a friend living near the WMZQ/WBIG tower in Falls Church. His reception improved across the board, especially channels 9 & 11.

You could also insert a Pico Macom USVJ combiner into the cable run to the pre-amp and connect the VHF antenna that way as the USVJ has a DC power cutoff to the VHF signal path. I don't think this is correct.

Think of AC as a 60 Hz signal and DC as a 0 Hz signal. Absent extra circuitry, power will pass on the low but not the high side on any band separator.

Afaik, HLSJs and UVSJs have no such circuitry, so unless Pico has changed the design since my last purchase -- admittedly a number of years ago -- power passes only on the low-band side of an HLSJ and only on the VHF side of a UVSJ.

I'm a Dish customer. I'm about to buy my 1st HD TV. I'm in a strange and maybe envious situation in that my HD provider options abound. I am in a well provisioned neighborhood with FiOS, Comcast, and Broadstripe (ex Millenium) systems available and obviously Dish and DirecTV.

I originally went to Dish after "suffering" with Comcast for way too many years and before FiOS was available. I currently have FiOS for internet (and very happy with it). I am quite happy with Dish service other than during the occasional heavy rain storm causing the usual "rain fade" dropout. But this is no worse than the constant dropouts I used to have with Comcast.

So, now that I'm just about ready to go HD what do you all have to say about the various providers available to me? Does one provide a superior HD picture vs. the competitors? Does satellite really beat out cable - I've heard that cable compresses far too much vs. satellite. Is DirecTV HD better than Dish or equivalent? I've seen FiOS HD at a friend's house and it looked great. But I have not seen Comcast (not that I'm all the excited to go back to them but I have heard that they have improved both their services and customer service).

Thanks in advance for advice & comments.

Welcome to the forum. There are a lot of extremely knowledgeable people around here and they are always eager to help out with advice or with a problem.

I have both a full Dish Platinum HD package and I also have a Verizon FiOS Extreme HD top tier package. Both of these providers are fed into a Sony 70 inch Rear Projection XBR2 and a Sony 52 inch XBR9 LCD flat screen. The XBR9 is a 240 Hz technological phenomenon. Its color, black level, and life-like detail make it as close to HD state of the art perfection as you are likely going to currently find available anywhere. Sony, in my opinion, is the best HD TV, hands down. I am not revealing this information because I want to boast. I reveal it because you desire an opinion on which provider provides the best HD picture. If you want the best HD picture then you should seek to judge which provider's HD is best by using equipment which will provide you with the best results in which to compare each.

Some people have alleged that Dishnetwork compresses the HD picture they deliver. I have read opinions that they are sending out a 1440 X 1080 picture rather than the full 1920 X 1080. I don't know. Dish has had a shortage of transponders in the past but they recently launched one or two new birds that have enabled them to introduce many new HD channels. They currently have 84 national HD channels not including local HD which they provide to the DC and Baltimore area. They have also converted their HD channels from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 which has enabled them to maintain quality while saving bandwidth. Their HD STBs are the best there are. The VIP-622 and the VIP-722 DVRs are fantastic. They beat Tivo hands down. I have one each. The HD channel PQ is decent to excellent. It is a little on the soft side. The SD channel PQ tends to be a little soft and is nothing to write home about. However, I have two large HD displays. They magnify every detail. A large screen display does not give you a razor sharp picture for 480i SD. Dish has decent customer and technical support.

Verizon FiOS advertises and swears that they deliver to their subs the same exact picture that they receive from their providers. They do not add any compression and deliver to you the full bandwidth. I believe them. Their HD picture is not excellent. It is absolutely breathtaking. The picture actually jumps out at you like it was almost 3D. More importantly, their SD channels are almost as good as their HD counterparts even on a large screen display. The sound on FiOS is a little sharper, crisper, and louder than on Dish. FiOS now has 106 national HD channels not including HD locals which they also provide to the Wash-Balt region. The Motoroal STBs are clunky and problematic. They are FiOS's weak link. Their customer support and technical support are also adequate.

Here are the national HD line-ups for all providers:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14422029

Don't go with Comcast. They had been squeezing into each HD slot (called a QAM) three channels where only two belonged. Each QAM is supposed to be about 38.6 mB wide. Instead, each HD channel is about 12.8 mB instead of 19.3. That means that their HD is starved for bandwidth. Pictures have artifacts and pixelization. I hear that their customer service is also starved for bandwidth, so to speak.

You want my opinion, go with FiOS if you don't mind the Motorola STBs. You can always get a Tivo or a Moxi STB and then you would have the best of both worlds (PQ and STB).

I just hope I can get FIOS soon, many of the surrounding streets have it, I'm wondering if its simply a matter of my apartment management company not wanting them to install it in our buildings? That alone would be reason enough for me to move.
Apt buildings have their own challanges and not all of them are technical. Besides the issue with the building management Verizon must install special equipment in multi-unit buildings. Asking the management company would be the first step to find out about FIOS availability.

I'm in Kensington, MD. I went from a UHF-only antenna to a Winegard HD-7000R, supposedly VHF/UHF/FM. I don't get a good signal from WUSA 9, occasional pixellation. All the other channels I'm more or less happy with. WUSA's digital signal was fine before the conversion. I do have a pre-amp at the antenna and an amplifier inside (signal is split to several devices). Anything I can do?

I live in Germantown MD, and I can barely get WUSA 9 now. It blacks out about half of the time. I have a VHF/UHF antennae in my attic, and I never had a problem before the switch over. Its clearly them.
J

Excellent review of providers, Steve. Thanks.
They have also converted their HD channels from MPEG-4 to MPEG-2 which has enabled them to maintain quality while saving bandwidth. Backwards. ;)

anyone in Oella/EC area doing OTA?

If so, could you comment on your experience?

Have a Winegard 7694 on order but may look to a db4 w/ seperate vhf as back up plan.

2. Does anyone know if WBOC-DT is looking into having 21-2 go HD? It's been done before on ch 45 or 54 I forgot which one. There is a lot of content that should be in HD on that channel especially with it being a FOX affiliate. I don't even think they have the equipment necessary to show syndicated shows in HD on 16-1. Entertainment Tonight is in SD and Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy are on 21-2 which is in SD anyway.

WBOC can feed HD directly to cable/satellite head ends. There is not enough bandwidth in a 6MHz channel to fully support two HD streams. I suppose it's theoretically possible (not knowing what commercial encoders/MUXes support), but each of those streams would be a pixellated mess.

WBOC can feed HD directly to cable/satellite head ends. There is not enough bandwidth in a 6MHz channel to fully support two HD streams. I suppose it's theoretically possible (not knowing what commercial encoders/MUXes support), but each of those streams would be a pixellated mess.

Lots of stations are doing it. I've seen it look "okay" though definitely not something I'd actively seek to have in my area.

- Trip

WBOC can feed HD directly to cable/satellite head ends. There is not enough bandwidth in a 6MHz channel to fully support two HD streams. I suppose it's theoretically possible (not knowing what commercial encoders/MUXes support), but each of those streams would be a pixellated mess.Probably not a good idea to have those 2 channels as HD streams. WBOC 16.1 is already noticeably bit starved when compared to WUSA & WJZ.

I’m glad to be part of this forum and hope that someone can provide some insights into my particular problem with digital TV reception. Some details: I live in Rockville MD, in a townhome community that does not allow external OTA antennas. Therefore I have a combination UHF/VHF antenna in my attic that has served me well over the years. It is not amplified. After the conversion on June 12, I lost signal channel 7, like many others, and had been receiving it perfectly on the prior UHF band. I am generally able to receive the other channels, with the exception of set of channel 30 shows.

I have subsequently discovered that I can receive channel 7 if my self built computer, built in Sept. 08, is not running. I can only assume that it is emitting electromagnetic interference that is affecting the signal strength of channel 7. I have done some reading about EMI on the web and there are various general solutions posed. They include moving either the antenna or the computer further apart (not practical in my situation), shielding the case, which I can only assume is already done to some degree, since it’s a reputable case maker and not cheap, or placing some kind of filter on the antenna lead that is mated to the interference. This last suggestion was from an amateur radio friend who says that they have to deal with interference on neighbor’s TVs routinely. This interference is so strong that I had to go into the parking lot in front of my home with a yagi antenna in order to get a signal when the computer was on. But, as soon as the computer is off, the TiVO signal strength bounces right up to around 85 out of 100. I thought that if I were able to obtain a portable gauss meter and use it to try and detect the particular component inside the computer that was responsible for emitting the EMI, I could simply replace that component. But I don't know if it could discriminate that well.

I realize that this question is a little off the path of this thread, but it does have to do with digital OTA reception and I’m hoping that there is someone out there who might have the insights or experience to help out.

Welcome to the forum. There are a lot of extremely knowledgeable people around here and they are always eager to help out with advice or with a problem.

I have both a full Dish Platinum HD package and I also have a Verizon FiOS Extreme HD top tier package. Both of these providers are fed into a Sony 70 inch Rear Projection XBR2 and a Sony 52 inch XBR9 LCD flat screen. The XBR9 is a 240 Hz technological phenomenon. Its color, black level, and life-like detail make it as close to HD state of the art perfection as you are likely going to currently find available anywhere. Sony, in my opinion, is the best HD TV, hands down. I am not revealing this information because I want to boast. I reveal it because you desire an opinion on which provider provides the best HD picture. If you want the best HD picture then you should seek to judge which provider's HD is best by using equipment which will provide you with the best results in which to compare each.

Some people have alleged that Dishnetwork compresses the HD picture they deliver. I have read opinions that they are sending out a 1440 X 1080 picture rather than the full 1920 X 1080. I don't know. Dish has had a shortage of transponders in the past but they recently launched one or two new birds that have enabled them to introduce many new HD channels. They currently have 84 national HD channels not including local HD which they provide to the DC and Baltimore area. They have also converted their HD channels from MPEG-4 to MPEG-2 which has enabled them to maintain quality while saving bandwidth. Their HD STBs are the best there are. The VIP-622 and the VIP-722 DVRs are fantastic. They beat Tivo hands down. I have one each. The HD channel PQ is decent to excellent. It is a little on the soft side. The SD channel PQ tends to be a little soft and is nothing to write home about. However, I have two large HD displays. They magnify every detail. A large screen display does not give you a razor sharp picture for 480i SD. Dish has decent customer and technical support.

Verizon FiOS advertises and swears that they deliver to their subs the same exact picture that they receive from their providers. They do not add any compression and deliver to you the full bandwidth. I believe them. Their HD picture is not excellent. It is absolutely breathtaking. The picture actually jumps out at you like it was almost 3D. More importantly, their SD channels are almost as good as their HD counterparts even on a large screen display. The sound on FiOS is a little sharper, crisper, and louder than on Dish. FiOS now has 106 national HD channels not including HD locals which they also provide to the Wash-Balt region. The Motoroal STBs are clunky and problematic. They are FiOS's weak link. Their customer support and technical support are also adequate.

Here are the national HD line-ups for all providers:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14422029

Don't go with Comcast. They had been squeezing into each HD slot (called a QAM) three channels where only two belonged. Each QAM is supposed to be about 38.6 mB wide. Instead, each HD channel is about 12.2 mB instead of 18.3. That means that their HD is starved for bandwidth. Pictures have artifacts and pixelization. I hear that their customer service is also starved for bandwidth, so to speak.

You want my opinion, go with FiOS if you don't mind the Motorola STBs. You can always get a Tivo or a Moxi STB and then you would have the best of both worlds (PQ and STB).

WOW - thanks! What a great review. I'm sure FiOS and Dish would love you to publish that - certainly FiOS. My concerns with FiOS have been exactly as you state - the clunky Motorola STB. I look at it and I look at my Dish 2-tuner 322 receiver which is so much smaller and has been completely trouble free for the 3+ years I've had dish (we won't talk about the wiring problems and the connectors constantly going bad but that was just a bad installer) vs. the Moto STB - yech.

Based on your observations of both (and my goodness you must have one hefty fill at the end of month with both FiOS and Dish), I will first try to wangle an HD upgrade out of Dish (competition is a wonderful thing to use as a threat to drop service) and see how that goes first before jumping to FiOS. One really nice thing I like about subscribing to satellite is that I pay a total of something like 25 cents in taxes on my bill as opposed to the local jurisdiction cable tariff, the local tax, the state tax, the excise tax, etc etc which totaled to a decent amount every month on my cable bill. Since FiOS was awarded a county cable franchise they too fall under the same tax umbrella whereas (so far) the satellite operators have escaped. My biggest beef with Dish has been with their local channel lineup - I get only the Baltimore stations and therefore only Maryland PBS (MPT) - I'd love to also get WETA from DC. But I know that this is NOT Dish's fault (at least not directly) since they are under a federal mandate to not provide out-of-area locals which the cable companies had been doing for years and only recently have been dropping because of $$.

Again - many, many thanks.

I’m glad to be part of this forum and hope that someone can provide some insights into my particular problem with digital TV reception. Some details: I live in Rockville MD, in a townhome community that does not allow external OTA antennas. Therefore I have a combination UHF/VHF antenna in my attic that has served me well over the years. It is not amplified. After the conversion on June 12, I lost signal channel 7, like many others, and had been receiving it perfectly on the prior UHF band. I am generally able to receive the other channels, with the exception of set of channel 30 shows.

It is my understanding that community associations CANNOT ban the use of outdoor antennae. This was part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. While they don't necessarily like them, they can't keep someone from doing it.

It is my understanding that community associations CANNOT ban the use of outdoor antennae. This was part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. While they don't necessarily like them, they can't keep someone from doing it.


Yes, that is legally true. But in my case, my current antenna (inside the attic) works good if the computer is turned off. Plus, I'm not sure that putting it outside, say on the roof, would get far enough away to avoid the EMI. As noted in my first post, I had to go into the parking lot, about 30 feet away from the front of my home in order to get a signal strong enough to produce video.

Yes, that is legally true. But in my case, my current antenna (inside the attic) works good if the computer is turned off. Plus, I'm not sure that putting it outside, say on the roof, would get far enough away to avoid the EMI. As noted in my first post, I had to go into the parking lot, about 30 feet away from the front of my home in order to get a signal strong enough to produce video.

You shouldn't need to get it outside. You're close enough to use an attic antenna. Your computer should not be producing that much EMI in any case. I wouldn't bother with filters, since it's best to go after such interference at the source and it's unlikely that any filters would actually help, based on what you've described.

Ham RFI filters are usually high-pass filters that block out anything below channel 2 or notch out specific ham bands. It's usually a case of overload, where a strong (and intentional) signal overloads the TV's tuner and causes interference. This isn't the case with your computer; it could be overload, but it is more likely a defective component. Computers shouldn't cause that much interference, especially not at that part of the spectrum.

[QUOTE=afiggatt;16715036]...You do not have to mount the upper VHF antenna below the UHF antenna. You could mount it above the CM 4228. Generally, VHF antennas are mounted below the UHF (when using 2 antennas) because the VHF antenna is usually heavier and larger. Also, VHF propagates better than UHF closer to the ground, so most of the time, the UHF antenna is mounted higher of the two. The rule of thumb is to have several feet vertically between the antennas if possible.[QUOTE]

Ok, so it's not an issue of interference or anything, just that's what people tend to do. I currently have the CM4228 on a J-mount on the roof, and I was thinking about getting one of those tri-pod things to mount the antenna I purchase on the peak of the roof. Any reason this won't work or any other options I should consider instead of this set-up? Again, I'm pretty challenged when it comes to the "lingo" so please bare with me.

On another note, thank goodness I found this forum to answer my questions and so I don't go out and spend $$ on things I don't need.

My biggest beef with Dish has been with their local channel lineup - I get only the Baltimore stations and therefore only Maryland PBS (MPT) - I'd love to also get WETA from DC. There is a thing called "moving" as opposed to really physically moving. You do this by calling up Dish and saying you want to move your service address (not billing address) to some location in the DC DMA, and voila. WETA and the rest. Obviously you want to make that call after the installers come out to install any new equipment you may need for HD.

Caveat 1: You would then lose your Baltimore stations.
Caveat 2: WETA via Dish Network is not currently HD. This is not horrible IF you can get WETA OTA. (All current Dish HD receivers either come with, or have as an option, an ATSC tuner.)

I’m glad to be part of this forum and hope that someone can provide some insights into my particular problem with digital TV reception. Some details: I live in Rockville MD, in a townhome community that does not allow external OTA antennas. Therefore I have a combination UHF/VHF antenna in my attic that has served me well over the years. It is not amplified. After the conversion on June 12, I lost signal channel 7, like many others, and had been receiving it perfectly on the prior UHF band. I am generally able to receive the other channels, with the exception of set of channel 30 shows.

I have subsequently discovered that I can receive channel 7 if my self built computer, built in Sept. 08, is not running. I can only assume that it is emitting electromagnetic interference that is affecting the signal strength of channel 7. I have done some reading about EMI on the web and there are various general solutions posed. They include moving either the antenna or the computer further apart (not practical in my situation), shielding the case, which I can only assume is already done to some degree, since it’s a reputable case maker and not cheap, or placing some kind of filter on the antenna lead that is mated to the interference. This last suggestion was from an amateur radio friend who says that they have to deal with interference on neighbor’s TVs routinely. This interference is so strong that I had to go into the parking lot in front of my home with a yagi antenna in order to get a signal when the computer was on. But, as soon as the computer is off, the TiVO signal strength bounces right up to around 85 out of 100. I thought that if I were able to obtain a portable gauss meter and use it to try and detect the particular component inside the computer that was responsible for emitting the EMI, I could simply replace that component. But I don't know if it could discriminate that well.

I realize that this question is a little off the path of this thread, but it does have to do with digital OTA reception and I’m hoping that there is someone out there who might have the insights or experience to help out.

What is bothering your channel 7 DTV reception is not EMI nor RFI, but Impulse noise. The two typical devices that cause noise on the VHF band are the switching power supply in the CPU, and/or the computer monitor. Your case is not effective enough to shield out the noise, some of which is introduced to the neutral AC wiring in the house.

If there is electrical wiring in your attic, that would be more than likely the 'noise antenna', transmitting the noise from your computer power supply and thus disrupting your channel 7. The problem is the neutral connection is all bonded together, so all your home wiring would have the problem. An AC isolation transformer connected to your computer may help, but the neutral and ground pin are bonded at your electrical panel anyway. You could try an isolation transformer, then use a ground lift adaptor.. But you're effectively floating the ground for your computer connection. Depending on the situation, that may not be safe for the long haul.

Moving your antenna outdoors away from the interference and the ability to capture more TV signal, is always the best option.

Excellent review of providers, Steve. Thanks.
Backwards. ;)

Corrected today. Thanks for pointing that out.

What is bothering your channel 7 DTV reception is not EMI nor RFI, but Impulse noise. The two typical devices that cause noise on the VHF band are the switching power supply in the CPU, and/or the computer monitor. Your case is not effective enough to shield out the noise, some of which is introduced to the neutral AC wiring in the house.

If there is electrical wiring in your attic, that would be more than likely the 'noise antenna', transmitting the noise from your computer power supply and thus disrupting your channel 7. The problem is the neutral connection is all bonded together, so all your home wiring would have the problem. An AC isolation transformer connected to your computer may help, but the neutral and ground pin are bonded at your electrical panel anyway. You could try an isolation transformer, then use a ground lift adaptor.. But you're effectively floating the ground for your computer connection. Depending on the situation, that may not be safe for the long haul.

Moving your antenna outdoors away from the interference and the ability to capture more TV signal, is always the best option.

Yes there is some wiring in the attic just to one utility box and two pull chain lights. I am a real neophyte when it comes to this subject, but I did have someone with engineering background suggest that I 'ground' the pc case to a water pipe, providing a separate ground from the one in the electrical system. Would that make a difference on a temporary basis to isolate the issue?

As an additional point of interest, I had previously noticed that the reception on my cell phone drops off to "No connection" if I am sitting at the computer. But if I go in the next room, about 20 feet away, it comes back enough to function.

I am not familiar with the terms 'AC isolation transformer' or 'ground lift adaptor'. Yes, I agree that I could move the antenna outdoors, although I'm not sure I could get far enough away to not be impacted by the interference.

At one point last year, prior to the transition to DTV, I had noticed that my analog channel 7 was picking up interference. It was during the time I was building the pc. But after I put the sides on, the interference went away.

Do you think that this could be coming from a particular component within the pc? If I could determine which one was responsible, I would switch it out for another brand.

My biggest beef with Dish has been with their local channel lineup - I get only the Baltimore stations and therefore only Maryland PBS (MPT) - I'd love to also get WETA from DC. But I know that this is NOT Dish's fault (at least not directly) since they are under a federal mandate to not provide out-of-area locals which the cable companies had been doing for years and only recently have been dropping because of dollars.

From what I know and that isn't a hell of a lot, the Feds don't regulate what local channels are available to our region. FiOS won't deliver the Washington channels to Baltimore City and County because Channels 2, 11, 13, 24, 45, and 54 don't want the competition from Washington advertisers. The Baltimore channels want you to buy from local advertisers who pay for air time on their channels. The same is true in Washington. Channels 4, 5, 7, 9, 20, and 50 don't want you to watch their Baltimore counterparts because they want you to buy from their local advertisers. FiOS doesn't care one way or another. The must-carry law requires FiOS to carry certain local channels. The must-carry law doesn't exclude FiOS from carrying out of market channels. They do only what is legally mandated.

Howard and Anne Arundel Counties are luckier. They get all of the Baltimore locals and all of the Washington locals minus Channels 20 and 50. The 10 MHz channels from WNVC and WNWT on Channel 30.1 through 30.10 in NoVa are not available either in Howard or AA.

I'm in Montgomery. I get everything from Washington and NoVA and only MPT from Annapolis on FiOS. Dish is the same minus MPT. However, I have an outside UHF/VHF antenna and I can receive just about every DTV channel in the region including 25.1 in Hagerstown, 43.1 in York, plus all of the low power digital and analog channels from Washington.

Try to install some kind of external inside or outside UHF/VHF antenna so that you can receive the Washington locals. OTA digital reception is also the very best possible PQ for all of the locals.

Yes there is some wiring in the attic just to one utility box and two pull chain lights. I am a real neophyte when it comes to this subject, but I did have someone with engineering background suggest that I 'ground' the pc case to a water pipe, providing a separate ground from the one in the electrical system. Would that make a difference on a temporary basis to isolate the issue?

As an additional point of interest, I had previously noticed that the reception on my cell phone drops off to "No connection" if I am sitting at the computer. But if I go in the next room, about 20 feet away, it comes back enough to function.

I am not familiar with the terms 'AC isolation transformer' or 'ground lift adaptor'. Yes, I agree that I could move the antenna outdoors, although I'm not sure I could get far enough away to not be impacted by the interference.

At one point last year, prior to the transition to DTV, I had noticed that my analog channel 7 was picking up interference. It was during the time I was building the pc. But after I put the sides on, the interference went away.

Do you think that this could be coming from a particular component within the pc? If I could determine which one was responsible, I would switch it out for another brand.

As mentioned by another poster, it probably is your monitor or the power supply in your PC.
Try turning off just your monitor while leaving your PC on. If your problem goes away, your monitor is the culprit. If your monitor is not the problem, I would replace the power supply in your PC. Try to do it yourself or get some cheap help. Power supplies are not normally hard to change. They can be bought at Staples or on-line. Get one that is MORE than 200 watts, 300 or 400 watts is preferred for best operation. Cost, around 50 bucks un-installed.
Maybe you can find somebody to install one on a temporary basis to prove that is the problem.
If you have any un-interruptible power supply EXTERNAL to the PC, that could be the problem too.
If you are using Wi-Fi, that COULD be the problem also, however that is not a main suspect.
Post again later when you have time to figure out what the problem is. Other people want to know.

I first tried the monitor. Even went so far as so unplug the brick, but no change in channel 7.

I do have a UPS and so I turned it off. But again no change on the TV.

I don't have WiFi.

As for the power supply, it's a new Zalman 750 watt unit. I regularly build pcs, so this was part of the components that I bought to build a new gaming pc for myself. The odd thing is that this was the 2nd power supply that I bought because after I got the first one and powered up, I noticed that I was getting interference on the analog (at the time) channel 7 so I immediately suspected the power supply. So, I RMA'd that one, which was an OCZ 750 watt unit and got the Zalman. I could try putting in another one that I have on hand just to see if by sheer coincidence that both power supplies were doing the same thing.

I also suspected the video card and again the current one is the 2nd one in the pc as it was replaced after the first one failed right after the pc was completed. And the interference occurred while each video card was in the pc.

The only other things that are have been in the pc from the start are 2 new SATA hard drives, new motherboard and new memory.

I appreciate the thoughts given here.

I first tried the monitor. Even went so far as so unplug the brick, but no change in channel 7.

I do have a UPS and so I turned it off. But again no change on the TV.

I don't have WiFi.

As for the power supply, it's a new Zalman 750 watt unit. I regularly build pcs, so this was part of the components that I bought to build a new gaming pc for myself. The odd thing is that this was the 2nd power supply that I bought because after I got the first one and powered up, I noticed that I was getting interference on the analog (at the time) channel 7 so I immediately suspected the power supply. So, I RMA'd that one, which was an OCZ 750 watt unit and got the Zalman. I could try putting in another one that I have on hand just to see if by sheer coincidence that both power supplies were doing the same thing.

I also suspected the video card and again the current one is the 2nd one in the pc as it was replaced after the first one failed right after the pc was completed. And the interference occurred while each video card was in the pc.

The only other things that are have been in the pc from the start are 2 new SATA hard drives, new motherboard and new memory.

I appreciate the thoughts given here.

I suppose you could try a couple of snap-on ferrite beads on the power cable. These could work, if you pick the right diameter for the cable:

https://www.amidoncorp.com/items/7

It's again better if you try to get it at the source, but this might prevent it from radiating out.

I first tried the monitor. Even went so far as so unplug the brick, but no change in channel 7.

I do have a UPS and so I turned it off. But again no change on the TV.

I don't have WiFi.

As for the power supply, it's a new Zalman 750 watt unit. I regularly build pcs, so this was part of the components that I bought to build a new gaming pc for myself. The odd thing is that this was the 2nd power supply that I bought because after I got the first one and powered up, I noticed that I was getting interference on the analog (at the time) channel 7 so I immediately suspected the power supply. So, I RMA'd that one, which was an OCZ 750 watt unit and got the Zalman. I could try putting in another one that I have on hand just to see if by sheer coincidence that both power supplies were doing the same thing.

I also suspected the video card and again the current one is the 2nd one in the pc as it was replaced after the first one failed right after the pc was completed. And the interference occurred while each video card was in the pc.

The only other things that are have been in the pc from the start are 2 new SATA hard drives, new motherboard and new memory.

I appreciate the thoughts given here.

The noise from your power supply is probably radiating from two places, the case and up the power cord. Even if you could shield the noise through the case by another case or grounding, the noise is being sent like an antenna into the neutral wire. The neutral wire travels all over your home carrying the noise with it. A 750W supply is pretty big and probably the issue here.

The reason I suggested moving the antenna outside is to not only move away from the interference in the house and wiring, but the trick is to have the TV station signal received at a higher level than the interference. Your roof attenuates the TV signal, but the "antenna" in the form of your house wiring transmits the noise just a few feet away surrounding the TV antenna. The technical term used is called signal-to-noise ratio. The idea is to have a signal, much higher than the noise.

I first tried the monitor. Even went so far as so unplug the brick, but no change in channel 7.

I do have a UPS and so I turned it off. But again no change on the TV.

I don't have WiFi.

As for the power supply, it's a new Zalman 750 watt unit. I regularly build pcs, so this was part of the components that I bought to build a new gaming pc for myself. The odd thing is that this was the 2nd power supply that I bought because after I got the first one and powered up, I noticed that I was getting interference on the analog (at the time) channel 7 so I immediately suspected the power supply. So, I RMA'd that one, which was an OCZ 750 watt unit and got the Zalman. I could try putting in another one that I have on hand just to see if by sheer coincidence that both power supplies were doing the same thing.

I also suspected the video card and again the current one is the 2nd one in the pc as it was replaced after the first one failed right after the pc was completed. And the interference occurred while each video card was in the pc.

The only other things that are have been in the pc from the start are 2 new SATA hard drives, new motherboard and new memory.

I appreciate the thoughts given here.

I would not suspect the hard drives or the memory, but I would not totally rule them out. I would look elsewhere first.
The 750 Watt power supply is a biggie, and I would swap it out with a spare at least for a moment. Could be a video card especially since you have one that probably is not very common.

You could be missing the 3rd wire Ground in your AC receptacle too. You case may not be grounded like you think it is. You may even have a main power panel that has a loose connection on this ground. Can you plug your PC into a different power source especially one in another room. Get a long Extension cord.
Your whole Main power Panel may have lost its ground.

A mother board could be causing this too, but I would look everyplace else first.

Try installing a smaller power supply if you have one. 750 Watts is going to output some RF noise. You can not shield the power supply much. You have to allow heat to escape.

I would not suspect the hard drives or the memory, but I would not totally rule them out. I would look elsewhere first.
The 750 Watt power supply is a biggie, and I would swap it out with a spare at least for a moment. Could be a video card especially since you have one that probably is not very common.

You could be missing the 3rd wire Ground in your AC receptacle too. You case may not be grounded like you think it is. You may even have a main power panel that has a loose connection on this ground. Can you plug your PC into a different power source especially one in another room. Get a long Extension cord.
Your whole Main power Panel may have lost its ground.

A mother board could be causing this too, but I would look everyplace else first.

Try installing a smaller power supply if you have one. 750 Watts is going to output some RF noise. You can not shield the power supply much. You have to allow heat to escape.

I will swap out the power supply tomorrow for a smaller one that I know did not interfere before. As for the third wire ground, couldn't I use an electrical current testing tool between the hot wire and the ground wire to check out the continuity? If the ground isn't good, then the circuit won't be complete, right? I believe plugging the pc into another outlet, even on a different floor would still eventually go back to the issue of the ground in the main panel box. How would I now if the ground was not proper in the main panel box?

But if it was a loose ground wire in this particular outlet, then it would make a difference. Anyhow, I'll try out different outlets on different floors with an extension cord.

Regarding the video card, this is the 2nd one that I have had in the pc and changing it out when the first one died, didn't alter the interference and putting a different card in there would be problematic since it's a newer type slot for which I don't have any extra cards lying around. But I'll keep wrestling with the issue.

One thing I found when I moved from COX to FiOS, the local HD(Including WUSA which I keep an eye on with a fine toothcomb) looked better on the Motorola STB compared with the Cox Scientific STB. As I know they're doing a 19.39Mb/s passthrough onto a QAM carrier, I'm assuming the decoder is somewhat better (or they've cheated the response somewhere in the decoder!). I was somewhat surprised.

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?

I'm in Kensington, MD. I went from a UHF-only antenna to a Winegard HD-7000R, supposedly VHF/UHF/FM. I don't get a good signal from WUSA 9, occasional pixellation. All the other channels I'm more or less happy with. WUSA's digital signal was fine before the conversion. I do have a pre-amp at the antenna and an amplifier inside (signal is split to several devices). Anything I can do?

I still no longer get a good signal from 9.1 anymore. I contacted them and explained that I used to be able to before the conversion, but they had no advise. All they said, was that they were putting out as much power as they were allowed, and asked if I could get channel 7.
Any ideas?
J

All,

I want to thank ProjectSHO89 for you great advise.

I decided to go with the DB2 and the AD C5 antennas. I did all my research figured out everything I needed. Well, I got up this morning this morning to order my equipment and I was just flipping through the channels and I noticed I had channel WJLA was coming in perfect and WUSA was coming in very spotty. For the past 2 weeks in Baltimore I haven't been able to get them. Have these station increased their power?

Now that I can get a WJLA and a spotty WUSA with my Winegard SS-3000, I'm thinking I can get a more powerful indoor antenna to get WUSA clear, or would it be better to get a DB2/DB4 and put it on the roof?

Any advise is appreciated.

All they said, was that they were putting out as much power as they were allowed, and asked if I could get channel 7.Any ideas?
J

That's a fair response, then once we know that, we can ask more. A fair amount of emails don't give enough information to offer advice. Most often they won't give their location :)

I still no longer get a good signal from 9.1 anymore. I contacted them and explained that I used to be able to before the conversion, but they had no advise. All they said, was that they were putting out as much power as they were allowed, and asked if I could get channel 7.
Any ideas?
JThe overamplification of your system is the root of your problem. Since WUSA is now on VHF, you are noticing it's effects now where you didn't before. How many devices do you need to power from your antenna? You shouldn't need any boost unless you are running maybe 6 or more tuners off that antenna. A paperclip should be able to pick up WUSA in Kensington.

I will swap out the power supply tomorrow for a smaller one that I know did not interfere before. As for the third wire ground, couldn't I use an electrical current testing tool between the hot wire and the ground wire to check out the continuity? If the ground isn't good, then the circuit won't be complete, right? I believe plugging the pc into another outlet, even on a different floor would still eventually go back to the issue of the ground in the main panel box. How would I now if the ground was not proper in the main panel box?

But if it was a loose ground wire in this particular outlet, then it would make a difference. Anyhow, I'll try out different outlets on different floors with an extension cord.

Regarding the video card, this is the 2nd one that I have had in the pc and changing it out when the first one died, didn't alter the interference and putting a different card in there would be problematic since it's a newer type slot for which I don't have any extra cards lying around. But I'll keep wrestling with the issue.


Plugging the PC into a different outlet will prove if your outlet has a missing or loose ground connection, You are correct, It will not prove that main power panel is grounded correctly. A tester would probably prove an outlet had a totally missing ground, but might not catch a ground wire that is just loose and not connected tightly.

To prove a main power panel is not grounded properly, is really an electricians job. You want to know how to do things safely there. Sometimes a ground wire will loosen up there especially if aluminum wire was used. Aluminum tends to give problems like this, but it is used because it is cheaper than copper wire. It is normally just a matter of tightening up the big screws on the ground wires there, but again, you do not want to make a mistake there or you will get burned or even killed.

If your two video cards were of a different manufacturer, and you had the problems with both of them, then I would not think you have a video card problem. But if both cards were from the same manufacturer, then the video card is still a suspect. If both cards were the same model, you could have a manufacturers design problem and you could swap 10 of them and still have the problem.

I still suspect the power supply, but really it could be anything in the PC.
Yes, even a case fan. Not likely, but it does happen.
It could be memory, disk drives or a mother board. I would not suspect any of them, but it sure is difficult to troubleshoot it from a distance. CD or DVD drives would not be a suspect, but unplugging the power on them and booting the PC will prove if they are the culprits.
Try moving the various cable around. Make sure they are not tied together very tightly into a bundle.
Could it be a Cable or DSL modem that you are turning off when you turn the PC off? Anything else that gets turned off when you shut down you PC. Like a printer or scanner??? Or even a digital clock.
If you are not using Wi-Fi, are you using "power Line Networking"??

. . . . . Well, I got up this morning this morning to order my equipment and I was just flipping through the channels and I noticed I had channel WJLA was coming in perfect and WUSA was coming in very spotty. For the past 2 weeks in Baltimore I haven't been able to get them. Have these station increased their power?No,

The atmosphere has been favorable for long distance signal enhancement lately. This is very common in warmer weather.

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?
I was not expecting Verizon to add WHAG NBC 25 to the HD line-up. But it is there and in the guide this morning. Was expecting Verizon to add WPXW Ion 66 to the HD local line-up next - and they still have not. Hagerstown is a subset of the Washington DC market and the new WHAG digital broadcast signal now covers much of the north and western areas of the DC metro area (and west of Baltimore as well), so maybe Nexstar Broadcasting talked Verizon into carrying the HD channel.

I can get WHAG-DT over the air from Sterling, but it has been tricky to find a aim and location for the CM 4221 that also gets all the DC stations, WNVC 30.1, WNVT 30.6, and the Baltimore stations including WUTB 24 at the same time. The trade-off has been between getting WUTB 24 reliably or getting a stable picture for WHAG. I can get WHAG 25 with a indoor Silver Sensor if I aim the antenna to the NW.

The advantage to getting WHAG is that it currently has no SD sub-channels. Until WHAG add sub-channels - and very likely eventually will do so - it should offer better picture quality for NBC programming, especially for sports. Would be useful if someone with a TivoHD or PC tuner setup could measure the bandwidth for WRC 4.1 and WHAG 25.1. However, I have not seen any closed captions for WHAG-DT over the air, so the station is lagging in adding CC equipment. WHAG-DT apparently does not show any syndicated HD programming, but then again, neither does NBC owned WRC.

The overamplification of your system is the root of your problem. Since WUSA is now on VHF, you are noticing it's effects now where you didn't before. How many devices do you need to power from your antenna? You shouldn't need any boost unless you are running maybe 6 or more tuners off that antenna. A paperclip should be able to pick up WUSA in Kensington.
I'm not in Kensington, I'm in Germantown, and I was getting 9.1 and 9.2 perfectly before.

I'm not in Kensington, I'm in Germantown, and I was getting 9.1 and 9.2 perfectly before.Oooops, My apologies, I had you confused with huesmann.

You will be lucky to get WUSA-DT 9 reliably with any attic antenna in Germantown. Do you get WJLA-DT 7?

Plugging the PC into a different outlet will prove if your outlet has a missing or loose ground connection, You are correct, It will not prove that main power panel is grounded correctly. A tester would probably prove an outlet had a totally missing ground, but might not catch a ground wire that is just loose and not connected tightly.

To prove a main power panel is not grounded properly, is really an electricians job. You want to know how to do things safely there. Sometimes a ground wire will loosen up there especially if aluminum wire was used. Aluminum tends to give problems like this, but it is used because it is cheaper than copper wire. It is normally just a matter of tightening up the big screws on the ground wires there, but again, you do not want to make a mistake there or you will get burned or even killed.

If your two video cards were of a different manufacturer, and you had the problems with both of them, then I would not think you have a video card problem. But if both cards were from the same manufacturer, then the video card is still a suspect. If both cards were the same model, you could have a manufacturers design problem and you could swap 10 of them and still have the problem.

I still suspect the power supply, but really it could be anything in the PC.
Yes, even a case fan. Not likely, but it does happen.
It could be memory, disk drives or a mother board. I would not suspect any of them, but it sure is difficult to troubleshoot it from a distance. CD or DVD drives would not be a suspect, but unplugging the power on them and booting the PC will prove if they are the culprits.
Try moving the various cable around. Make sure they are not tied together very tightly into a bundle.
Could it be a Cable or DSL modem that you are turning off when you turn the PC off? Anything else that gets turned off when you shut down you PC. Like a printer or scanner??? Or even a digital clock.
If you are not using Wi-Fi, are you using "power Line Networking"??

I will try plugging into a different circuit today. It is odd though that this only showed up when I built the new pc and not previously. So, that's what leads me to believe that it is something in the new pc and not a pre-existing condition like an improper ground in the main panel (although I could be off base in this reasoning).

The two video cards were from different manufacturers so I don't think that they are at the root of this problem.

I have DSL and the modem is on 24/7, as is another pc on my wired network, so it's not the modem. Likewise, my printer, which is about 4 years old, also stays on after the pc is shut down. I do have a power line networking setup tied into the wired network, but that was set up long after the pc was built and the problem showed up, so I don't think that's the culprit either.

So, I'm back to the power supply again. I was going to simply switch it out today, but realized that I don't have one that has the proper connectors so I'm on my way to Micro Center this morning to purchase one. Finger crossed.

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?

I was wondering the same thing.

I was not expecting Verizon to add WHAG NBC 25 to the HD line-up. But it is there and in the guide this morning. Was expecting Verizon to add WPXW Ion 66 to the HD local line-up next - and they still have not. Hagerstown is a subset of the Washington DC market and the new WHAG digital broadcast signal now covers much of the north and western areas of the DC metro area (and west of Baltimore as well), so maybe Nexstar Broadcasting talked Verizon into carrying the HD channel.

I can get WHAG-DT over the air from Sterling, but it has been tricky to find a aim and location for the CM 4221 that also gets all the DC stations, WNVC 30.1, WNVT 30.6, and the Baltimore stations including WUTB 24 at the same time. The trade-off has been between getting WUTB 24 reliably or getting a stable picture for WHAG. I can get WHAG 25 with a indoor Silver Sensor if I aim the antenna to the NW.

The advantage to getting WHAG is that it currently has no SD sub-channels. Until WHAG add sub-channels - and very likely eventually will do so - it should offer better picture quality for NBC programming, especially for sports. Would be useful if someone with a TivoHD or PC tuner setup could measure the bandwidth for WRC 4.1 and WHAG 25.1. However, I have not seen any closed captions for WHAG-DT over the air, so the station is lagging in adding CC equipment. WHAG-DT apparently does not show any syndicated HD programming, but then again, neither does NBC owned WRC.

Thanks for the info

if the station stays on FIOS I will change my season passes for NBC shows to that station. None of the bradcasts are as good as they were eight years ago.
I can easily see the difference when comparing what HD is broadcast now on the DC stations to HD recordings I made eight years ago when they didn't have any subchannels.

Well, we Dish Network customers have been getting WHAG for a long time now as part of the DC DMA. Since it has been SD only, I can't say that I've watched it that much other than a couple of "Hey, check this out" on the first days that it appeared.

Since for some reason Hagerstown is part of the DC DMA, I'm surprised that its not on all of the MSO that service the DC DMA.

Oooops, My apologies, I had you confused with huesmann.

You will be lucky to get WUSA-DT 9 reliably with any attic antenna in Germantown. Do you get WJLA-DT 7?

That's Germantown MD, just north of Gaithersburg in Montgomery County.
WJLA is no problem. Like I said, I was getting 9.1 and 9.2 (talk about exciting :rolleyes:) for a couple years until now. I do get it through Comcast, but I am considering just dropping cable altogether-or was until CBS disappeared. The OTA picture tends to be better than via cable.
J

Hopefully, WUSA-DT 9 will increase their power to a more realistic level, but there is no word of that happening yet.

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?Anyone know if FIOS is using a fiber feed, or OTA?

No,

The atmosphere has been favorable for long distance signal enhancement lately. This is very common in warmer weather.

Thanks Digital Rules, that explains why the stations didn't come in a little while ago. Guess I'll be putting in my order for my DB2 and AC C5 today.

Anyone know if FIOS is using a fiber feed, or OTA?



Just my good educated guess ---- it is OTA since a fiber feed from Hagerstown to DC would be very costly. Small town stations generally do not have that type of money available, especially now when advertising income is probably way down. The good thing is that the WHAG OTA signal is of top quality.

I will try plugging into a different circuit today. It is odd though that this only showed up when I built the new pc and not previously. So, that's what leads me to believe that it is something in the new pc and not a pre-existing condition like an improper ground in the main panel (although I could be off base in this reasoning).

The two video cards were from different manufacturers so I don't think that they are at the root of this problem.

I have DSL and the modem is on 24/7, as is another pc on my wired network, so it's not the modem. Likewise, my printer, which is about 4 years old, also stays on after the pc is shut down. I do have a power line networking setup tied into the wired network, but that was set up long after the pc was built and the problem showed up, so I don't think that's the culprit either.

So, I'm back to the power supply again. I was going to simply switch it out today, but realized that I don't have one that has the proper connectors so I'm on my way to Micro Center this morning to purchase one. Finger crossed.

Another thought, coiling up cords can cause some funny problems. if you have the power cord coiled up or tied in a bundle of cables, try straightening that out.

The good thing is that the WHAG OTA signal is of top quality.I'm curious as to where they have the antenna for that? It would need to be well northwest of DC to avoid co-channel interference from Richmond.

The word from WHAG Engineering:

Anybody know why we are getting WHAG 25 on FIOS channel 515? Is this a fluke?
No, it is not a fluke. It is supposed to be available to the entire DC coverage area.

Anyone know if FIOS is using a fiber feed, or OTA?
Fiber it is.

This is very nice, because I have no usable signal from WHAG at my location in Fairfax. Last night I moved an 8-bay all around the attic. Got KYW again, and later on WRLH, but if there was ever any signal from WHAG it was either way too weak to lock, or destroyed by the co-channel from Philly and Richmond.

WRC-4 went dark at 12:00 noon.
WMPT-22 went dark at 12:31 pm.

No ceremonies. They both just went to snow in the middle of the nightlight loop.

Meanwhile, WTTG-5 shrunk its nightlight program sometime in the past few days. It is now windowboxed.

Why can't stations get aspect ratios figured out? It's a nightlight program fer cryin' out loud. Whoever would want to see that in widescreen? :rolleyes:

What is bothering your channel 7 DTV reception is not EMI nor RFI, but Impulse noise. The two typical devices that cause noise on the VHF band are the switching power supply in the CPU, and/or the computer monitor. Your case is not effective enough to shield out the noise, some of which is introduced to the neutral AC wiring in the house.

If there is electrical wiring in your attic, that would be more than likely the 'noise antenna', transmitting the noise from your computer power supply and thus disrupting your channel 7. The problem is the neutral connection is all bonded together, so all your home wiring would have the problem. An AC isolation transformer connected to your computer may help, but the neutral and ground pin are bonded at your electrical panel anyway. You could try an isolation transformer, then use a ground lift adaptor.. But you're effectively floating the ground for your computer connection. Depending on the situation, that may not be safe for the long haul.

Moving your antenna outdoors away from the interference and the ability to capture more TV signal, is always the best option.
Electrical outlet feedback was exactly the same thing that popped into my head when I read the problem.

RockvilleJ,

Try using a true isolation UPS between your computer and wall outlet. Try looking for one with a network filtering capability for your Power Line Network.

…I did have someone with engineering background suggest that I 'ground' the pc case to a water pipe, providing a separate ground from the one in the electrical system. Would that make a difference on a temporary basis to isolate the issue?
Unless the water pipe is bonded to the electrical ground and your absolutely positive that it's metal from the computer to the ground bonding point, DO NOT DO THIS! You will create a ground potential issue, which can create a shock hazard capable of killing you. This can happen, when you touch the metal case of your computer and any other object that is metal and plugged into an electrical outlet.

The advantage to getting WHAG is that it currently has no SD sub-channels. Until WHAG add sub-channels - and very likely eventually will do so - it should offer better picture quality for NBC programming, especially for sports. Would be useful if someone with a TivoHD or PC tuner setup could measure the bandwidth for WRC 4.1 and WHAG 25.1. However, I have not seen any closed captions for WHAG-DT over the air, so the station is lagging in adding CC equipment. WHAG-DT apparently does not show any syndicated HD programming, but then again, neither does NBC owned WRC.
I talked with the engineer at WHAG-DT and posted awhile back. They have no plans to add any sub-channels to their transmission. I'll see what I can find out about the other issues.

On another note, I finally connected with the engineer at WDCA about W51CY. They have submitted quote requests for converting to digital and are still planning on turning W51CY back "ON," when they get the conversion done. I asked about turning the analog transmission back "ON" and was told that they don't have any equipment to receive their primary DTV transmission for broadcasting. I wonder if they could use a CM7000? :)

Bottom line is that when Corporate gets their priority down to that level and they have the equipment, it will get done. We'll see it turned "ON," when it gets turned "ON." :(

I do have a power line networking setup tied into the wired network, but that was set up long after the pc was built and the problem showed up, so I don't think that's the culprit either.
Maybe so, but the card in the new PC build may be reacting differently. Try disconnecting the PC from this network.

Small town stations generally do not have that type of money available, especially now when advertising income is probably way down.
WJAL-DT was sending their content to all the cable systems throughout the area via fiber (and may still be), when their facilities went up in smoke at the tower.