Congrats to Trip in VA for being the owner of post #10000 in the current incarnation of the DC/Baltimore/Annapolis thread. Err, DC/Baltimore thread. ;)

WBAL is requesting an STA to operate at 26.6 kW.

- Trip

WBAL is requesting an STA to operate at 26.6 kW.

- Trip

Best news I've heard all month!

Are you still looking for any stream data captures, or are you good?

I'm picking up several Richmond stations (WRLH's DT-26 and WRIC's DT-22) in Annapolis using rabbit ears. Not very good reception, barely viewable, but enough came through to see the info in TSReader...

Also WCPB DT-28 from Salisbury.

Best news I've heard all month!

Are you still looking for any stream data captures, or are you good?

If you can see WUSA-DT, I'd like that one. And WNVC-DT 24. But only if they have those Mobile DTV streams (0x1eee or 0x1ff9). Other than those, I'm good at the moment.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

so has anyone gotten MHz1 through MHz10 working over the air in MCE 2005?

thanks!

MCE 2005 and the initial version that shipped with Vista were VERY sensitive to the PSIP data matching what it thinks it should be. For example, for the longest time up here I couldn't get WUTB, WHUT or WDCW on Media Center even though they would tune with other applications. (I didn't have anything like TSReader set up at that time, I don't know what the problem was).

Microsoft seems to have completely fixed that with the "TV Pack 2008" (OEM only, but you can find it) update to Vista Media Center and of course in Windows 7.

Back on topic ... find a file, I believe it's called "atscchannels.xml" and take a look inside that. You should be able to make manual modifications for just the 30.6-30.10 entries to point them to RF 30.

Question .. how do you tune 30.10 in MCE 2005? I thought it was limited to 9 channels (1301-1309)? Just curious, it's been a while for me, I use that "TV Pack" version of Media Center which has proper subchannel support (and depending on who you ask, lots of bugs) :-)

If you can see WUSA-DT, I'd like that one. And WNVC-DT 24. But only if they have those Mobile DTV streams (0x1eee or 0x1ff9). Other than those, I'm good at the moment.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

Holy carp batman, I can actually see WUSA tonight ... on my stupid homemade Baltimore antenna! SWEET.

Both channels attached. Um, I didn't look if they had the streams or not - lol. I suppose it won't bring down AVS to just post anyway. I'm in WAY too good of a mood from catching WUSA with my crappy antenna (you should see it - it's PATHETIC. It was just a failed prototype!)

Thanks! No mobile streams yet, but I see where it's reserved. Looks like WNVC will be doing 2 groups for 1 M/H stream, while WUSA will have four groups for 2 M/H streams.

No guarantees on those numbers, I could be 100% wrong.

I'm off to bed now, catch everyone in the morning. Adios!

- Trip

WBAL is requesting an STA to operate at 26.6 kW.

- Trip

Hope it works. With the exeception of WMAR, WBAL, and WJZ being on TV Hill, I still think given the fact that most of the Baltimore and DC towers are at low elevations fill in translators would better serve there needs.

Hope it works. With the exeception of WMAR, WBAL, and WJZ being on TV Hill, I still think given the fact that most of the Baltimore and DC towers are at low elevations fill in translators would better serve there needs.

Can't speak for D.C., but the WMAR/WBAL/WJZ candelabra is actually lower in elevation than WBFF/WNUV and WUTB, and about the same as WMPB. You can actually see the elevation difference if you come up I-95, the WBFF/WNUV tower is notably taller.

I suppose transmitter elevation acceptability really depends on your location. A 500' tower would be great for everyone, but is probably quite impractical. In my case, I have line-of-sight to just about everything in D.C., but not a single Baltimore channel. This is ironic only because I live 2x farther away from D.C. than I do from Baltimore.

IMO, In this area translators are somewhat impractical because of how densely populated the frequency spectrum is already, and how close everything is together. For example, why would anyone bother with a WJLA translator north of D.C. when WMAR is available and WJLA can be acquired with a proper setup*? It's not that I disagree with you, I just think it's a somewhat impractical concept for our unique situation in Baltimore/Washington :)

* I still think the H-VHF channels are underpowered. Don't get me wrong on this! lol

Can't speak for D.C., but the WMAR/WBAL/WJZ candelabra is actually lower in elevation than WBFF/WNUV and WUTB, and about the same as WMPB. You can actually see the elevation difference if you come up I-95, the WBFF/WNUV tower is notably taller.

I suppose transmitter elevation acceptability really depends on your location. A 500' tower would be great for everyone, but is probably quite impractical. In my case, I have line-of-sight to just about everything in D.C., but not a single Baltimore channel. This is ironic only because I live 2x farther away from D.C. than I do from Baltimore.

IMO, In this area translators are somewhat impractical because of how densely populated the frequency spectrum is already, and how close everything is together. For example, why would anyone bother with a WJLA translator north of D.C. when WMAR is available and WJLA can be acquired with a proper setup*? It's not that I disagree with you, I just think it's a somewhat impractical concept for our unique situation in Baltimore/Washington :)

* I still think the H-VHF channels are underpowered. Don't get me wrong on this! lol

I was thinking more to help the areas of Northern VA and Western Md

WBAL is requesting an STA to operate at 26.6 kW.

- TripI wonder if the request is due to lost advertising revenue? I expected them to apply much sooner.

I wonder if the request is due to lost advertising revenue? I expected them to apply much sooner.

Reading the paperwork, it sounds like they tried to find a UHF channel to move to and couldn't find one (45?).

This power boost fails the interference requirements, thus why it's under experimental authority.

- Trip

If you can see WUSA-DT, I'd like that one. And WNVC-DT 24. But only if they have those Mobile DTV streams (0x1eee or 0x1ff9). Other than those, I'm good at the moment.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

You will see the streams in a couple of days or so.

Unfortunately, the Channel Master 2016 is not a very good VHF antenna. The 7694 is much better, even on UHF.

I'm also thinking you would be better off without a pre-amp. It is likely doing more harm than good. If you must use a pre-amp, the Winegard HDP-269 is the only one worth considering. I would try a new higher quality antenna first.

Well I bypassed my Radio Shack amp and that was the problem. I am picking up all the UHF and VHF signals while pointing to Baltimore. I even get some DC channels coming in. Some are over 95% while 11 is around 60% so manageable. Should help with the increase signal gain submitted to the FCC. Thanks for everyone's help.

Reading the paperwork, it sounds like they tried to find a UHF channel to move to and couldn't find one (45?).Would WBAL be able to re-use WBFF's old analog antenna if they were granted UHF channel 45? I'm sure a new antenna would be quite expensive.

Well I bypassed my Radio Shack amp and that was the problem.Good news!! I'm glad you tried removing the pre-amp before buying anything new!!

Would WBAL be able to re-use WBFF's old analog antenna if they were granted UHF channel 45? I'm sure a new antenna would be quite expensive.

Regardless it would have to be moved since they "live" on 2 different towers (side-by-side, but separate).

Reading the paperwork, it sounds like they tried to find a UHF channel to move to and couldn't find one (45?).

This power boost fails the interference requirements, thus why it's under experimental authority.

- Trip

I wonder why they can't go back to their pre-transition UHF channel assignment? Do you have a link to the FCC STA? I tried poking around on the FCC site but quickly got lost in the mess.

I wonder why they can't go back to their pre-transition UHF channel assignment? Do you have a link to the FCC STA? I tried poking around on the FCC site but quickly got lost in the mess.They were on channel 59 which is now history.

They were on channel 59 which is now history.

Oooh - I forgot they were living in "sold" frequency territory. I was thinking they were on 38 but that was WJZ and now WMAR.

I have a several questions. Is it correct that adjacent DTV channels on the same tower don't interfere with each other? If this is true then why doesn't the FCC authorize a single regional antenna for the entire Washington-Baltimore-Annapolis-Frederick-Hagerstown-Northern Virginia region? It could be centrally located and top out at 1,000 to 2,000 feet high. Every station could use adjacent UHF DTV channels. Aiming your antenna would be easy. Is this doable?

MCE 2005 and the initial version that shipped with Vista were VERY sensitive to the PSIP data matching what it thinks it should be. For example, for the longest time up here I couldn't get WUTB, WHUT or WDCW on Media Center even though they would tune with other applications. (I didn't have anything like TSReader set up at that time, I don't know what the problem was).

Microsoft seems to have completely fixed that with the "TV Pack 2008" (OEM only, but you can find it) update to Vista Media Center and of course in Windows 7.

Back on topic ...

thanks for the response! i think this was on-topic, too, because i'm glad to know that the reason i preordered Windows 7 -- to make all my channel problems go away -- is valid. :)

find a file, I believe it's called "atscchannels.xml" and take a look inside that. You should be able to make manual modifications for just the 30.6-30.10 entries to point them to RF 30.

yes, i've noticed that file, atscchannels.xml. and yes, i am able to make manual modifications to change those RF frequencies to 30, but it doesn't seem to work. i think what it was doing when i tried doing that was just detecting the RF change as an error and deleting the channels 30.6-30.9 (i didn't even try adding 30.10 just yet). but if you're convinced you had gotten it to work that way i'll try again more carefully.

Question .. how do you tune 30.10 in MCE 2005? I thought it was limited to 9 channels (1301-1309)? Just curious, it's been a while for me, I use that "TV Pack" version of Media Center which has proper subchannel support (and depending on who you ask, lots of bugs) :-)

yup, you are right that when adding channels through the GUI you can't get to the 2-digit subchannel 10, so i didn't push my luck in trying to add that into the atscchannels.xml file just yet. through the GUI, i was trying to add in the RF 30 channels at a new logical channel like 29 or 31 so the subchannels started at 1 again so i was not having the problem of reaching 10. i did trying adding subchannels up to 7 to see if 6 or 7 worked, but they didn't.

with the WatchHDTV.exe program, you manual add the logical and physical channel numbers, so i have WNVC as 24.1-24.5 and WNVT at 30.1-30.5. in the FusionHDTV application, however, which does auto channel scanning, both WNVC and WNVT show up as 30.1-30.5 but i guess somewhere internally the application is able to tell the WNVC 30-1 apart from the WNVT 30-1.

maybe i'll try that, change all the 30.1-30.5 RF numbers to 30 just to see if i can even see the RF 30 channels even though i just sacrificed the RF 24 ones.

I changed out a dead television at my in-laws today and added the RCA DTA800B1 to the replacement Sylvania. They only have a VHF antenna at about 20' AGL.

When I reset the CECB and finished the channel scan, they had WJLA, WUSA, WBAL, WJZ, and WWPX. The system did register WHAG and WJAL, although both were unviewable. As soon as I get the new tower up and add the homemade vertical UHF antenna, they should get better. I think I'm going to have to get one of those old fringe VHF only antennas.

Not bad for just East of Mercersburg, PA. :)

Does anyone know if Comcast in Montgomery County moved the local channels today or last night. I just got home, and tried to put on the news, and all 3 networks are gone. OTA is fine (except WUSA). Cable channels are OK. I'm not using an STB, and its been fine for years.
I'm doing a rescan now, but am wondering where they are.
J

I finally added a VHF/UHF combiner and some rabbit ears to my Silver Sensor, and now I get 13 reliably. 7, 9 and 11 are still bad. (11 is actually a bit worse than with just the Silver Sensor, which is odd.) I get 7 and 9 via Fios, so 11 is the only one I need. Hopefully the power boost will do it.

I have a several questions. Is it correct that adjacent DTV channels on the same tower don't interfere with each other? If this is true then why doesn't the FCC authorize a single regional antenna for the entire Washington-Baltimore-Annapolis-Frederick-Hagerstown-Northern Virginia region? It could be centrally located and top out at 1,000 to 2,000 feet high. Every station could use adjacent UHF DTV channels. Aiming your antenna would be easy. Is this doable?

That would make to much sense to ever be done :D. but would best serve everyone.

I do not get HD with my DirecTV MDU package so I just ordered a Terk HDTVa Indoor antenna to get the locals. I got a good direction to get a good amount and according to that antenna site, I am within 5-6 miles of all of them.

I have a several questions. Is it correct that adjacent DTV channels on the same tower don't interfere with each other? If this is true then why doesn't the FCC authorize a single regional antenna for the entire Washington-Baltimore-Annapolis-Frederick-Hagerstown-Northern Virginia region? It could be centrally located and top out at 1,000 to 2,000 feet high. Every station could use adjacent UHF DTV channels. Aiming your antenna would be easy. Is this doable?

No such tower exists or will be built. The network affiliates would throw fits. Fringe viewers would likely be left in the cold. Endless complaints would emerge about the tower from local residents.

It's completely doable from an engineering standpoint--most things are. From a political standpoint, it will never happen.

- Trip

No such tower exists or will be built. The network affiliates would throw fits. Fringe viewers would likely be left in the cold. Endless complaints would emerge about the tower from local residents.

It's completely doable from an engineering standpoint--most things are. From a political standpoint, it will never happen.

It basically happened here in Madison. Keep in mind that at the time of the new tower construction, channel 57 was in Janesville.

Because the land that the University of Wisconsin owned was being sold, the TV tower that was on the land had to move. There were 5 separate TV towers in this town.

So, since the UW had to move, there was a notion placed out there of building a community tower. I do not have all of the details that evolved to ultimately allow the tower to be built.

As I understand it, it wasn't because of political reasons that kept the NBC affiliate from joining all of the other stations on the tower. It was purely financial. The station, WMTV and its owners, didn't want to give up the income from space rented out on their tower.

The 1200' three pointed tower was built in an area that already had the Fox47 tower and no where near residents. So there was no problem with getting it built.

As you know, channel 57 moved to Madison. But, because the community tower is already at 110% capacity, they weren't going to move there. ACME reached a deal with the owners of WMTV to replace their old tower with a new 1200' two-pointed tower (construction photos on my web site). I was told that management at WMTV didn't want to do it. ACME has a 100 year lease on the land and own's the tower. But, all income from tower space goes to WMTV's owners.

So, we've managed to move six stations to two towers. With the shutdown of analog channels, in theory, all stations could be on a single tower. With the 2nd tower being so new, it ain't gonna happen.

Never say never. That said, the odds of it happening in that area are indeed slim-to-none.

Anyone else notice some odd artifacts on WMPB-DT2? I'm seeing some weird shimmer/banding on grey mid tones, and odd vertical stripes on the far right. I've seen the stripes before, but not the shimmer. It is hard to show on a static image, but I've attached a few examples.

These are from the 7/14 8PM showing of Antiques Roadshow.

Thanks!
R C

Never say never. That said, the odds of it happening in that area are indeed slim-to-none.

The odds of DC and Baltimore merging, as was suggested, is zero. No super tower of both sets of stations (plus Hagerstown, etc) will arise.

A super tower for just Baltimore or just DC? Maybe. But for both? I don't see that happening, ever.

- Trip

Anyone else notice some odd artifacts on WMPB-DT2? Thanks!Ever since they started using stretch-o-vision, I can't stand watching MPT. What are they smoking over there????????????

No such tower exists or will be built. The network affiliates would throw fits. Fringe viewers would likely be left in the cold. Endless complaints would emerge about the tower from local residents.
It's completely doable from an engineering standpoint--most things are. From a political standpoint, it will never happen. - Trip

I agree that it would never work politically. God forbid that people in the Washington area should watch the Baltimore network affiliates or vice versa. The republic would fail. I may be wrong and would like a correction if I so am but I think that this is the only region in the country with two full sets of network affiliates including Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, and My. Certainly, there is no other region with two full sets of affiliates barely 35 miles apart.

When Cable TV first started in Montgomery County more than 20 years ago, all Baltimore and Washington OTA locals were available. People began to take their antennas down. You didn't need one. All of the regional OTA locals were on the cable. Then one by one, each Baltimore local was removed from the channel lineup. It was like a large high fence was being constructed at the Patuxent River. We weren't supposed to watch Baltimore anymore. Fortunately for me, I never removed my antenna. I would wager that I am only one of a very very few who can watch Baltimore OTA DTV in my neighborhood. The channels are less than 25 miles away and yet they might as well be in California as far as the cable and small dish people are concerned. People in Montgomery County work in Baltimore. People in Baltimore work in downtown Washington or Rockville. Yet, we are not supposed to watch each others channels. Pretty damn stupid if you ask me. I thought that the FCC was supposed to do something about the must carry provisions here and the special circumstances that exist for the two metroplexes but I guess not.

Technically, it would be a dream come true. Fringe viewers would be left in the cold? Well, aren't they anyway? Build this super tower somewhere near Laurel, MD and build it very high; at least 1,500 to 2,000 feet high or more. It could deliver every channel up to 100 miles out. Build local repeaters in the fringe areas. You could eliminate duplicate services such as WWPX, WFPT, and WMPB. I just freed up at least three channels, didn't I? Does the world come to an end if someone watches 4, 5, 7, 9, 20, and 50 instead of 11, 45, 2, 13, 24, and 54, or vice versa? Let's face it, the technical problems now being encountered with DTV especially on VHF make this idea even more compelling.

The odds of DC and Baltimore merging, as was suggested, is zero. No super tower of both sets of stations (plus Hagerstown, etc) will arise. A super tower for just Baltimore or just DC? Maybe. But for both? I don't see that happening, ever. - Trip

Two separate super towers, one each in Baltimore and Washington would be stupid beyond all belief. No offense is intended to you, Trip, but if Baltimore ever puts up such a tower than Washington would reply in kind.

Baltimore doesn't want its area population to watch Washington channels and vice versa. If Baltimore puts up a super tower making it easy for Washingtonians to watch Baltimore OTA then Washington affiliates would not stand idly by watching their viewers being syphoned off to Baltimore affiliates. They would build their own super tower and steal Baltimore viewers, wouldn't they?

The sane answer is regional cooperation. One tower serves all.

Whoa. Was there a power increase on WNVT or is that mystical "E" especially good tonight? I'm getting 30 with a 80-90 signal strength here (Elkridge, Howard, MD) from an attic antenna. Anyone else seeing 30 that couldn't before?

I really hope this is a power increase and the results are permanent. 30 was the only remaining UHF D.C. channel I wasn't getting ... and making me seriously consider actually climbing up on my ladder and doing this properly - lol.

edit: nuts, it's probably tropo. I can actually get 7 on my UHF D.C. antenna tonight (the VHF antenna is still MIA) too. Wow, WJLA .. long time no see! WUSA last night, WJLA tonight ... good week!

Two separate super towers, one each in Baltimore and Washington would be stupid beyond all belief. No offense is intended to you, Trip, but if Baltimore ever puts up such a tower than Washington would reply in kind.

None taken. I know it's something that won't happen. Just as a single tower covering both cities with all affiliates won't happen.

It suddenly occurred to me that there are spacing issues with Philly, Harrisburg, and Richmond that would prevent a number of stations in the region from using such a "super tower" if such a thing was to happen, so even on an engineering side, it's not really sensible to do so.

- Trip

Whoa. Was there a power increase on WNVT or is that mystical "E" especially good tonight? I'm getting 30 with a 80-90 signal strength here (Elkridge, Howard, MD) from an attic antenna. Anyone else seeing 30 that couldn't before?

My normal peak signal for WNVT-DT RF30 (30.6 through 30.10) is about a 90-94 on my Dishnetwork VIP-722 meter when I aim my antenna towards a 200 degree azimuth. It is now easily 100 plus. I usually aim my antenna towards a 70 degree azimuth in order to get all channels at once. At 70 degrees azimuth, WNVT is normally about 60 to 64 which just locks it in. It now reads 73 or 74. That's quite a difference. All the other channels have their usual normal readings which leads me to believe that WNVT has changed something for the better.

Trip,

This is the first time I have seen this channel. Usually Charlottesville is present on 503 MHz during SW tropo.

WCWG is out of the Greensboro/Winston Salem, NC DMA.

Steve

Trip,

Here's WUND (UNC) on RF-20 out of Elizabeth City, NC.

Steve

Trip,

Here's WUND (UNC) on RF-20 out of Elizabeth City, NC.

Steve

Thanks! I had been just about to e-mail my contact in Hampton Roads for a new capture of WUND, but I guess I don't have to now. :)

- Trip

Two separate super towers, one each in Baltimore and Washington would be stupid beyond all belief. No offense is intended to you, Trip, but if Baltimore ever puts up such a tower than Washington would reply in kind.

Baltimore doesn't want its area population to watch Washington channels and vice versa. If Baltimore puts up a super tower making it easy for Washingtonians to watch Baltimore OTA then Washington affiliates would not stand idly by watching their viewers being syphoned off to Baltimore affiliates. They would build their own super tower and steal Baltimore viewers, wouldn't they?

The sane answer is regional cooperation. One tower serves all.

In reality, the WMAR-WBAL-WJZ TV Hill tower *is* the Baltimore "super tower." It was built in 1959 as a cooperative project between Baltimore's 3 TV stations. WBFF and WNUV, both owned by Sinclair, have an adjacent tower on TV Hill.

From Wikipedia:

In 1959, WJZ-TV built the world's first three-antenna candelabra tower, shared with WMAR-TV and WBAL-TV. The 730-foot (220 m) tower significantly improved the station's coverage in central Maryland, and also added new viewers in Pennsylvania and Delaware. It still operates from this 730-foot (220 m) tower today, which can be seen from Interstate 83 in Baltimore.

I'm just surprised that many of these stations don't have repeaters everywhere to boost the signal a bit more for those fringe people.

Speaking of super towers, wasn't the big tower project up in Tenleytown supposed to consolidate most, if not all of the D.C.-area signals before it was aborted?

Does anyone know if Comcast in Montgomery County moved the local channels today or last night. I just got home, and tried to put on the news, and all 3 networks are gone. OTA is fine (except WUSA). Cable channels are OK. I'm not using an STB, and its been fine for years.
I'm doing a rescan now, but am wondering where they are.
J

I had to do a rescan to get the channels back. They seem to have moved several channels around. They now seem to have all the analog channles and some that were removed from analog now available in unscrambled digital,

I have been playing with some different pre amps etc I really thought I had overlaod issues but maybe its just as everyone is saying it just weak signals help me understand please. I am back to the cm7777 with 1713 and xg91. I can get 13 all times 11 85% of the time 7 almost always 9 about 65 % 45 100%+ 24 WUTB 100% CHANNEL 5 ABOUT 50 % AND 2 AND 4 LIKE 25-30% of the time. This makes no sense why 45 ,24,&54 is fantastic and channel 2 from same location and UHF signal is margianal. And same from DC channels 4 and 5 marginal and 20 & whatever 24 2.3.4 WNUV are coming from are almost 100%. I even get channel 3(49.1-3) from Harrisonburg VA 90% of time good signal. So I must think my uhf system is up to par its just driving me crazy why I can't seem to get 2 and 4. my zip is 17225 with 55 foot tower AGL and 690 feet above ASL

I had to do a rescan to get the channels back. They seem to have moved several channels around. They now seem to have all the analog channles and some that were removed from analog now available in unscrambled digital,

Well, WRC and WUSA eventually came back in the same place (108.1 and 108.29 respectively). I'm wondering if they just had some technical issues. Yes, they seem to have all of the analog channels digitized now. They've done this before, and stopped it after a while. I'm also getting some random On-Demand leakage again that they stopped about a year ago. We'll see how long it lasts.
J

I have been playing with some different pre amps etc I really thought I had overlaod issues but maybe its just as everyone is saying it just weak signals help me understand please.What other pre-amps did you try? Your issue with not getting WMAR-2 (RF 38) is probably because of WJAL-39 (RF 39).

i have tried cm 0068 with cm0549 combiner also some high dollar pre amp from England with the same combiner, also tried winegard ap2870 at top of tower and 20 feet down the tower and then back to the cm 7777 20 feet down the tower seems be the most stable

My normal peak signal for WNVT-DT RF30 (30.6 through 30.10) is about a 90-94 on my Dishnetwork VIP-722 meter when I aim my antenna towards a 200 degree azimuth. It is now easily 100 plus. I usually aim my antenna towards a 70 degree azimuth in order to get all channels at once. At 70 degrees azimuth, WNVT is normally about 60 to 64 which just locks it in. It now reads 73 or 74. That's quite a difference. All the other channels have their usual normal readings which leads me to believe that WNVT has changed something for the better.

Well, whatever it was, it's gone now :( Can't even lock onto 30 anymore. It was down to about 75% signal for me before work this morning, so it was probably environmental. If anyone knows different, like they were actually testing something, please let me know. I'd like to get 30, but it's not a big enough deal to change everything I have around just for that :cool:

So, I hear that WDCA has lit up Mobile DTV. That makes three. Anything from WNVC, WUSA, WHUT, or WNUV?

- Trip

So, I hear that WDCA has lit up Mobile DTV. That makes three. Anything from WNVC, WUSA, WHUT, or WNUV?

- Trip

Check WNUV next week - I think there will be something there next Wednesday.

.

Two separate super towers, one each in Baltimore and Washington would be stupid beyond all belief. No offense is intended to you, Trip, but if Baltimore ever puts up such a tower than Washington would reply in kind.

Baltimore doesn't want its area population to watch Washington channels and vice versa. If Baltimore puts up a super tower making it easy for Washingtonians to watch Baltimore OTA then Washington affiliates would not stand idly by watching their viewers being syphoned off to Baltimore affiliates. They would build their own super tower and steal Baltimore viewers, wouldn't they?

The sane answer is regional cooperation. One tower serves all.

"Washington" and "Baltimore" have nothing to do with this. "Washington" and "Baltimore" do not put up towers. Commercial firms (could be broadcasters, could be others) build towers to host antennas (or, for AM, RF) designed to provide signal over a specified area. The specifications derive from proscribed limits for the class and location of the station and from limits imposed to provide a minimum service to an community and avoid interfering with already-licensed services. Tower location and size are further limited by local zoning.

Given the above, the ultimate location of a broadcast site is a business decision of the broadcaster. Broadcasters broadcast. They want to maximize their audience. If a DC DTV station could make a business case for locating its antenna near Laurel, it would do it. WPXW's moving their transmitter site to NW DC (by buying WUSA's interim DTV facility) from southern Fairfax County is a classic example.

There are several valid technical reasons why a single transmission site for Washington and Baltimore would not work. First, DC stations would lose coverage of the south and Baltimore stations would lose coverage to the north. Second, many of the channel allocations would not work, despite the move being on the order of 20 miles. The spectrum is pretty full, so moving more than 10 channels around would affect many, many others.

From the business end, why would the broadcast networks and program syndicators want to deal with two stations with exactly the same service area? If the DC and Baltimore stations came from the same location, then we would end up with half as many stations.

Sorry to ramble on a bit off-topic, but I tire of the ill-informed conspiracy posts. The restricting of channels on cable is different. That's due to the regulatory framework to make the syndication market and local advertising in network shows work.

Any news as to what's going to be on WBAL's 11.3 & 11.4?

Has anybody heard any audio on 47.2 yet? I get nothing.

Has anybody heard any audio on 47.2 yet? I get nothing.It's very intermittent. I'll check it when I get home.

tunamike,

Greencastle, PA is considered "Deep-Fringe" for D.C. and Baltimore. The FCC even removed Franklin County, PA from the D.C. DMA a couple of years back and attached it to the Harrisburg/Lancaster/York DMA.

If you rotate your antenna to around 322-330°, you'll find you should get WTAJ very well. WRC and WDCA are going to be very hard to acquire, due to adjacent and co-channel interference.

You're close to WHAG and WWPB and may find that you'll experience some signal overload.

i do understand that but why some and not others and if it is truely overload or co channel interference would a dual attentuator i think its by winegard help about 10 days ago channel 68 RF12 was of the air for few hours mid day saturday afternoon a OMG i got everything from 3 in harrisonburg to 45 in baltomore and all the dc etc stations between with the antenenna aiming like 130degree halfway between baltimore and DC. short time they were gone and sure enough checked and 68 was on the air again.Can the vhf antenna be cut triommed etc to make channel 12 weaker etc and anything to the uhf side just digging for straws I guess. I am very compettitive and saw someone in this area seems to be getting all the signals and you know if he can I have to be better(heeeeheee). I think I have about as good of setup as one can do within reason in a small community. Just frustrated maybe a couple of power increases will help they appear to becoming and 13 and 7 are almost 100% so maybe 11,9 on VHF and 2 and 4 on UHF with a little power ill be there. Just a question are you getting much from Harrisburg besides 43,15 and 27 and any other stations beside 10 to the west.

Any news as to what's going to be on WBAL's 11.3 & 11.4?

What makes you think there are an 11.3 and 11.4 coming? (Serious, not facetious question).

edit: 11.1 and 11.2 are programs 3 and 4, but that's different.

i do understand that but why some and not others and if it is truely overload or co channel interference would a dual attentuator i think its by winegard help about 10 days ago channel 68 RF12 was of the air for few hours mid day saturday afternoon a OMG i got everything from 3 in harrisonburg to 45 in baltomore and all the dc etc stations between with the antenenna aiming like 130degree halfway between baltimore and DC. short time they were gone and sure enough checked and 68 was on the air again.Can the vhf antenna be cut triommed etc to make channel 12 weaker etc and anything to the uhf side just digging for straws I guess. I am very compettitive and saw someone in this area seems to be getting all the signals and you know if he can I have to be better(heeeeheee). I think I have about as good of setup as one can do within reason in a small community. Just frustrated maybe a couple of power increases will help they appear to becoming and 13 and 7 are almost 100% so maybe 11,9 on VHF and 2 and 4 on UHF with a little power ill be there. Just a question are you getting much from Harrisburg besides 43,15 and 27 and any other stations beside 10 to the west.
WJAL 68 is on RF 39 and WWPX 60 is on RF 12. Baltimore and D.C. are 2-edge reception for the valley, while WJAL, WHAG, WWPB, WVPY, WWPX, W08EE-D, and soon to be W38AN and WDCW-LD are all LOS.

WWPB is transmitting at 1000KW, WHAG is transmitting at 575KW, and WJAL is transmitting at 105KW.

Check WNUV next week - I think there will be something there next Wednesday.

.
How about the EPG for WNUV? It seems to say "DTV Program" from now till the end of time. ;)

I was seeing breakup on WUSA via Fios during the 5pm news, including "skipping" (like a record -- the same segment repeating a second later). This was with my TiVo Series 3. Did anyone else see this?

i do understand that but why some and not others and if it is truely overload or co channel interference would a dual attentuator i think its by winegard help about 10 days ago channel 68 RF12 was of the air for few hours mid day saturday afternoon a OMG i got everything from 3 in harrisonburg to 45 in baltomore and all the dc etc stations between with the antenenna aiming like 130degree halfway between baltimore and DC. short time they were gone and sure enough checked and 68 was on the air again.Can the vhf antenna be cut triommed etc to make channel 12 weaker etc and anything to the uhf side just digging for straws I guess. I am very compettitive and saw someone in this area seems to be getting all the signals and you know if he can I have to be better(heeeeheee). I think I have about as good of setup as one can do within reason in a small community. Just frustrated maybe a couple of power increases will help they appear to becoming and 13 and 7 are almost 100% so maybe 11,9 on VHF and 2 and 4 on UHF with a little power ill be there. Just a question are you getting much from Harrisburg besides 43,15 and 27 and any other stations beside 10 to the west.
Currently, my solid stations are WTAJ 10, WLYH 15, WDCA 20, WUTB 24, WNPB 24, WHAG 25, WWPB 31, WVPY 42, WPMT 43, WGCB 49, WWPX 60, WPXW 66, and WJAL 68.

WJLA 7 and WBFF 45 are currently coming and going. I used to get WMAR 2, WTTG 5, WUSA 9, WJZ 13, WNUV 54, and WMPB 67. I've never been able to get WGAL 8, WHP 21, WHTM 27, or WDCW 50.

The ones who get solid reception for WJLA 7, WUSA 9, WBAL 11, and WJZ 13 are located on the West side of the valley and probably getting some signal boost from the reflections off the Tuscarora ridgeline.

I'm using a Channel Master CM3020 (mounted 50' AGL) and a Channel Master Spartan 3 DSB0064 pre-amp. Everytime I add height to my setup, the system becomes more stable and my received station list changes. I'm going for 60'+ for the top most antenna and I'm building channel cut antennas now (ie. RF23, RF32/33, RF47). I'm also communicating with a company (that supplies channel traps for cable companies) to acquire RF26 and RF 44 traps to use with a couple of jointennas.

What makes you think there are an 11.3 and 11.4 coming? (Serious, not facetious question).

edit: 11.1 and 11.2 are programs 3 and 4, but that's different.

Because they show up there with a "no signal".

and soon to be W38AN and WDCW-LD are all LOS.

"soon to be"? Do you know more specifically when that will be? I sent an email back in June to WDCW and they said that they would not be broadcasting from the Blue Ridge Summit tower anytime this year.

I talked to Nick and he told me that it's on their agenda to get the transmitter back online. It's all dependent upon finance allocation from corporate. I inquired about WDCW turning the analog transmitter back ON and there wasn't a solid answer on that. I didn't think about asking Nick if he could use a CM7000 to receive the WDCW transmission and then feed it to the W51CY transmitter.

Since I've found that I can receive a bounced WLYH (90° off axis), I have not spent anymore time on the subject.

Has anybody heard any audio on 47.2 yet? I get nothing.

No audio for me either since their first day on the air several weeks ago. It was intermittent during the first day as I remember. What puzzles me is what is the engineer on duty doing there? Sleeping?

Anybody getting WDCN-LP on Channel 6 analog? It's a Latino music station which transmits from Arlington. You can also hear the audio on your FM radio at 87.75 MHz, the audio frequency for Channel 6.

Try tuning in low VHF analog channels 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 during the evening. These channels are almost totally free of DTV interference around here. Canadian and Latino channels are showing up here especially during the summer months.

Sorry to ramble on a bit off-topic, but I tire of the ill-informed conspiracy posts.

Sorry, but not only do I appear to be ill-informed. I actually am. As far as conspiracies go, last year I was paranoid. This year I am positive that everyone is out to get me!

From the southern side (King George, VA) this morning: tropo ducting is at work, as WHRO and WAVY from the Hampton Roads area and WMAR are nice and stable. In the meantime, WJLA and WDCW are gone and WUSA and WETA are sketchy. WVPT popped up above noise long enough to be added. Gotta love summer mornings.

No audio for me either since their first day on the air several weeks ago. It was intermittent during the first day as I remember. What puzzles me is what is the engineer on duty doing there? Sleeping?This doesn't surprise me. It took over 6 months for them to fix their PSIP encoder.



Anybody getting WDCN-LP on Channel 6 analog? It's a Latino music station which transmits from Arlington. You can also hear the audio on your FM radio at 87.75 MHz, the audio frequency for Channel 6.Yes, they are still broadcasting in stereo from the WETA-FM tower in Arlington.

From the southern side (King George, VA) this morning: tropo ducting is at work, as WHRO and WAVY from the Hampton Roads area and WMAR are nice and stable.Nice tropo here too. Impressive HD news set on WAVY-10. Most field shots are in HD.:)

A few things occurred to me this morning:
1.) There's really only two free UHF channels that can be used here, 43 & 44. Everything else in this region is used by either digital or low power analog.
2.) WBAL could probably relocate to 44 unless there's some channel in PA I'm not sure.
3.) I need WMDO to vacate analog 47 and increase power on 8. I get WBOC consistently and sometimes as high as 80% but it only sporadically goes to 10% on digital 47 (WMDT)
4.) 7 seems to be the weaker of the two digital VHF signals. I can get 9 & 13 but I have to move my antenna to get 7 and it is nonexistent on my kitchen TV. Luckily 2 is my strongest Baltimore channel.

I am in Davidsonville, MD and I have a medium range VHF/UHF Winegard with an amplifier skewed towards UHF. Since the switchover, my reception has improved dramatically.

How about the EPG for WNUV? It seems to say "DTV Program" from now till the end of time. ;)

How are you watching the signal? I'm looking at it OTA in my office and it says "The Steve Wilcos Show", etc., currently.

Thanks for the input -

<added> I just checked it OTA with my Streamscope, and there is good program guide info through 11 AM on Sunday on WNUV, WBFF and 45.2 ThisTV.
.

Baltimore doesn't want its area population to watch Washington channels and vice versa. If Baltimore puts up a super tower making it easy for Washingtonians to watch Baltimore OTA then Washington affiliates would not stand idly by watching their viewers being syphoned off to Baltimore affiliates.In the unusual circumstance where a Washingtonian could not receive local affiliates but could receive these Baltimore affiliates, they might add viewers. But why would they siphon viewers?

2.) WBAL could probably relocate to 44 unless there's some channel in PA I'm not sure.
Not possible, because WWPB (MPT 31) Hagerstown, MD has that channel and is putting out at 1000KW.

Regional Stations around Baltimore (125KM radius): http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=&chan=20&cha2=51&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=125&dlat2=39&mlat2=17&slat2=25&dlon2=-76&mlon2=36&slon2=45&size=9

Not possible, because WWPB (MPT 31) Hagerstown, MD has that channel and is putting out at 1000KW.



How come they can't go back to 31? I don't see too many interference issues with that channel unless 30 from Red Lion is a problem.

A few things occurred to me this morning:
1.) There's really only two free UHF channels that can be used here, 43 & 44. Everything else in this region is used by either digital or low power analog.

WIAV-LP has applied to go digital on 44 I think. 43 likely would suffer interference issues from WMPT.

2.) WBAL could probably relocate to 44 unless there's some channel in PA I'm not sure.

WDPB and WWPB block 44. I didn't see anything amazingly wrong with 45, though I don't have the ability to run interference studies to know what problems it could face...

3.) I need WMDO to vacate analog 47 and increase power on 8. I get WBOC consistently and sometimes as high as 80% but it only sporadically goes to 10% on digital 47 (WMDT)

The most increase you'll get out of WMDO-LD is about 1 dB or so, probably not nearly enough.

4.) 7 seems to be the weaker of the two digital VHF signals. I can get 9 & 13 but I have to move my antenna to get 7 and it is nonexistent on my kitchen TV. Luckily 2 is my strongest Baltimore channel.

That's interesting, considering 7 has more than double the power 9 has.

How come they can't go back to 31? I don't see too many interference issues with that channel unless 30 from Red Lion is a problem.

They don't want to spend the money on new gear to go digital on 31, plus stations who gave up their pre-transition channels ran the risk of having to reduce coverage.

Further, there are interference issues with WTAJ, WGCB, and WNVT that would need to be hammered out.

- Trip

Thanks for the info Trip. I'm just frustrated that I have to keep adjusting my antenna for 7. I wish there was a spot where all three (7, 9, & 13) all came in. When is WBAL going to increase their power and could UHF 51 be an option for them to use?

51 is adjacent to 50 in DC, which would cause interference issues.

Plus, WETA and WWPX have already applied for 51 and no movement has occurred on that front, so I doubt WBAL wants to get buried in that mess.

I don't know when WBAL will increase power, just that it's been applied for.

- Trip

51 is adjacent to 50 in DC, which would cause interference issues.....


- Trip

I don't remember any interference issues when WJZ was on 38 and WJLA was on 39. Aren't they far enough away where there wouldn't be any issues unlike WMPT and WUTB?

How are you watching the signal? I'm looking at it OTA in my office and it says "The Steve Wilcos Show", etc., currently.

Thanks for the input -

<added> I just checked it OTA with my Streamscope, and there is good program guide info through 11 AM on Sunday on WNUV, WBFF and 45.2 ThisTV.
.
Strange -- I could have sworn there was nothing there last night when I checked. I'll look again in a bit. I was using TSReader to look at the OTA signal. Thanks for checking into it.

I don't remember any interference issues when WJZ was on 38 and WJLA was on 39. Aren't they far enough away where there wouldn't be any issues unlike WMPT and WUTB?

The FCC squeezed stations in as best they could. I don't have any interference numbers for it (the technical exhibits are not posted online for applications that old), but I'm certain there were high interference numbers for that situation.

The "taboo zone" is 14-68 miles on adjacent channels.

- Trip

Nice tropo here too. Impressive HD news set on WAVY-10. Most field shots are in HD.:)Same with WTKR/3 (UHF40)...

Strange -- I could have sworn there was nothing there last night when I checked. I'll look again in a bit. I was using TSReader to look at the OTA signal. Thanks for checking into it.

Just let me know. I've seen weird stuff happen when there's a PSIP issue - things will work on some sets and not others, etc. If there's a problem, I'll delve into it further.

Cheers -

Just let me know. I've seen weird stuff happen when there's a PSIP issue - things will work on some sets and not others, etc. If there's a problem, I'll delve into it further.

Cheers -
Checked about 10 seconds ago and it looks fine today. *shrug*

http://kurly.net:666/tvsightings/20090716/40-20090716-1809.htm shows what I saw yesterday.


To everyone, why would my digital tuner be occasionally reporting stuff on channel 60 and 64? TSReader is actually locking on channel 60 during a channel scan, but then getting constant sync errors. I was pretty sure we decommissioned those...?

I don't remember any interference issues when WJZ was on 38 and WJLA was on 39. Aren't they far enough away where there wouldn't be any issues unlike WMPT and WUTB?

I do! WJZ was very unreliable for us just 10 miles out on 38. Constant drop-outs, especially during the 'fade' period in the late afternoon.

WMAR using the same equipment on 38 has been perfect since 6/12. The only thing I can think of that would have made such a staggering difference was the loss of WJLA on 39 from the opposite direction. WNUV on 40 was always excellent, but admittedly it's also perfect now. I haven't seen a drop-out on either of those channels since 6/12, even during thunderstorms.

FWIW, I have no issues with WUTB, even with WMPT's power increase, and I'm directly South of WUTB on the wrong side of their polar plot (WMPT is SE of me and is our strongest channel by far). I expected WUTB to get wrecked, but thankfully it hasn't.

I do! WJZ was very unreliable for us just 10 miles out on 38. Constant drop-outs, especially during the 'fade' period in the late afternoon.

WMAR using the same equipment on 38 has been perfect since 6/12. The only thing I can think of that would have made such a staggering difference was the loss of WJLA on 39 from the opposite direction. WNUV on 40 was always excellent, but admittedly it's also perfect now. I haven't seen a drop-out on either of those channels since 6/12, even during thunderstorms.

FWIW, I have no issues with WUTB, even with WMPT's power increase, and I'm directly South of WUTB on the wrong side of their polar plot (WMPT is SE of me and is our strongest channel by far). I expected WUTB to get wrecked, but thankfully it hasn't.

Where in MD are you and are you using an indoor or outdoor antenna?

Where in MD are you and are you using an indoor or outdoor antenna?

Elkridge, and both .. depending on what TV or device you happen to be watching in my house. lol. I have an old LPDA on the roof pointed at Baltimore that we don't use anymore at all, and an entire laboratory of stuff in the attic :-)

I don't remember any interference issues when WJZ was on 38 and WJLA was on 39. Aren't they far enough away where there wouldn't be any issues unlike WMPT and WUTB?
When the transition happened, WJAL 68 (RF 39) increased their power to 105KW. As for RF 51, W51CY already has a license for RF 51.

Have you compared the Insignia and Digital Stream boxes on capture ability? I read a review a long time ago that gave the nod to the Digital Stream box which is why I bought it.

Well, I just switched to using the 9950 on the set; and on it, I can see 22 [MPT] tonight. I didn't even get that in NTSC. [An old Sony did years ago...] It's shown as weak but IS solid.

I now recall that the 9950 has some downsides. First is, the audio levels channel to channel are all over the map. The Insignia was pretty stable, but on the 9950; 7-3 [RTN] is weak, and others are LOUD.... It's also not as smart re: Zoom, but then as I just said, the Insignia is seemingly getting dumber in that area.

I was seeing breakup on WUSA via Fios during the 5pm news, including "skipping" (like a record -- the same segment repeating a second later). This was with my TiVo Series 3. Did anyone else see this?

Yes, it's been doing so for a couple of days now.

For 6 years I've had great reception up in Frederick, MD on ALL the DC DTV stations using a 15 element yagi and a UHF preamp. I lost CBS and ABC when they changed back to VHF. (I sent a nasty email to the GMs saying they changed a perfectly good and working system for VHF, something that no one had the opportunity to test.) Since then, I made a 3 element yagi antenna for 185 MHz (ch 9) and am able to get WJLA but still nothing (except the ocassional breakup) on CBS.

Is anyone having a problem getting USA? According to the FCC site, their ERP is a paltry 12Kw, compared to 36Kw on WJLA. WUSA's UHF ERP was 1000Kw and was always my most reliable channel.

Here's how they look-
http://www.digisportshooter.com/albums/temp/IMG_4981.jpg
WUSA is the higher frequency carrier. Just not good enough to get a picture. JLA is reliably now though, I'm surprised I can't get USA. Anyone else having a problem with them now?

I can't tell how many dB is represented by each line.

I'm rather amused with the very, very weak signals from WMDO-LD 8 and WBAL-DT 11 that I see in that picture.

- Trip

I can't tell how many dB is represented by each line.

Probably 2dB per division. If WJLA is three times as strong as WUSA, then it will be about 5dB stronger, but we can't see that because it is clipped off the top of the display.

I'm rather amused with the very, very weak signals from WMDO-LD 8 and WBAL-DT 11 that I see in that picture.

Not surprising that WMDO-8 is about 13 dB weaker than channel 9 or that WBAL-11 is similarly weak, especially considering that if the dipole is square to the Washington transmission azimuth, then channel 11 is hitting it at maybe a 60 degree angle.

As far as WMDO is concerned, there is no problem locking onto a healthy signal that is down over 20dB from an adjacent one. During the transition, I used to pass channels 38 - 40 through a single bandpass filter in the Washington, DC market, with channel 39 being well over 20 dB stronger than 38 and 40, yet had no trouble locking onto them. Of course, I only receive signals on top of highrise buildings, so my signals were probably 30 or more dB stronger than those shown on this spectrum analyzer.

One problem can be seen by comparing the signal strength to the noise floor. The spectrum to the left of the channel 7 trace represents the noise floor. I can't read the bandwidth resolution on the blurry screen, but if it were 6 MHz (which it isn't), then the difference in the display levels would be the signal to noise level. Fortunately (?) that resolution is surely less than 1 MHz, possibly 100 KHz. For us to visually determine the signal to noise ratio, we'd either have to know the filter bandwidth, or if that scope can be set to 6 MHz and if it can be switched to 10 dB per division, we could then read the S/N more directly. An S/N ratio of at least 16 dB is need at the tuner input from which to decode an 8VSB signal.

If the S/N ratio is adequate, then the channel 9 problem may be excessive multipath, as evidenced by the jaggedness of the channel 9 trace. I think sat_uplinker is going to have to use an antenna with a longer boom to try to flatten out his channel 9 trace. Can sat_uplinker get channel 11 if he squares the dipole to the Baltimore transmission asimuth?

JLA is reliably now though, I'm surprised I can't get USA. Anyone else having a problem with them now?Short of trying a higher gain antenna, you may benefit from an FM trap depending on your exact location.

I helped a friend install a high gain channel 7-13 antenna last week. Even though the antenna is not designed for FM, a $3.00 trap improved the signal for WBAL-11 from nothing to 65% @ 50 miles out. We also noticed an improvement on WJZ-13.

I was seeing breakup on WUSA via Fios during the 5pm news, including "skipping" (like a record -- the same segment repeating a second later). This was with my TiVo Series 3. Did anyone else see this?

I've noticed this as well on FiOS with WUSA. Is Verizon aware of it?

Yes, the scope is set to 2 db/div, I can't tell the span or resolution bandwidth from the photo. Its a 35-lb Agilent/HP scope from work that I lugged up into the attic. (and at $15,000, I did not want to drop it!) That picture is coming from a FM dipole that I cut to 32 inches, or half-wave for channel 8. I later made a 3 element beam using the elements I hacked off a giant old VHF antenna on the roof at work, however it had only a few more db gain than the dipole. The boom on that antenna is only 3'. I guess I will have to make a longer yagi with more elements. I was thinking of a 6' boom with .2 wavelength element spacing.
What would that FM trap do for me? These frequencies are above the FM broadcast band.

Here's the UHF side
http://www.digisportshooter.com/albums/temp/IMG_4976.jpg

http://www.digisportshooter.com/albums/temp/IMG_4968.jpg

What would that FM trap do for me? These frequencies are above the FM broadcast band.If you have relatively strong FM in the vicinity, it can hinder reception of weak DTV stations. This is true of not only high band VHF antennas, but also UHF only models in extreme cases. For instance, you can pretty much forget about getting WBAL-11 anywhere close to DC without a proper FM trap.

Looks like your spectrum analyzer plots are suffering from multipath or impedance mismatch. The tops of the DTV carriers should be relatively flat, but yours are pretty jagged. Mounting that antenna outside would probably help alot. That spectrum analyzer is 50 ohms, so were you using a 75 to 50 ohm balun? As I mentioned, the impedance mismatch could also be the cause of the jagged carriers on your analyzer.

The the dividing line for rain/ice/snow frequently occurs in the Baltimore / Washington, DC metro area.

We're planning to move our antenna from the attic to the roof due to the DTV transition. Our county recommends an installation that can withstand 1/2" of ice and worst case wind gusts of up to 90 MPH.

1. What antennas have the minimum sq ft wind surface area and still provide dropout-free DTV reception sufficient for at least 40-45 miles?

2. What current model antennas have stood the test of time (several winters) in our area?

3. How have vertically stacked separate VHF & UHF antennas held up? (We're hoping to install a 91XG + YA-1713.)

4. What other things do we need to consider for ice & wind gusts?

Mast length, diameter, & type?
Maximum mast height above last mounting bracket without guy wires?
Alignment bearing with rotor?
Anything else?
Thanks!

The the dividing line for rain/ice/snow frequently occurs in the Baltimore / Washington, DC metro area.

We're planning to move our antenna from the attic to the roof due to the DTV transition. Our county recommends an installation that can withstand 1/2" of ice and worst case wind gusts of up to 90 MPH.

1. What antennas have the minimum sq ft wind surface area and still provide dropout-free DTV reception sufficient for at least 40-45 miles?

2. What current model antennas have stood the test of time (several winters) in our area?

3. How have vertically stacked separate VHF & UHF antennas held up? (We're hoping to install a 91XG + YA-1713.)

4. What other things do we need to consider for ice & wind gusts?

Mast length, diameter, & type?
Maximum mast height above last mounting bracket without guy wires?
Alignment bearing with rotor?
Anything else?
Thanks!

I've used the good Channel Master UHF-VHF combination antennas for cable receive sites atop 3,000 foot mountains with 100 mph gusts and frozen fog ice. The ice and wind on the antenna isn't what kills the antenna, but more the falling ice chunks from higher up on a tower. Unless you have a icy tree nearby to blow ice against the antenna, you'll probably be fine.

If you're using a taller mast to give you 30' of the desired Above Ground elevation, I suggest using a 2" galv. schedule 80 pipe for a mast. Mounting to your home like a chimney mount is easiest. Just make sure you electrically ground the mast really well to a good known ground. If the ground is at all questionable, drive a 10' ground stake below and run a copper ground cable clamped to the mast above and the ground stake below.

If the ground is at all questionable, drive a 10' ground stake below and run a copper ground cable clamped to the mast above and the ground stake below. 10'? :eek:

The engineer at WUSA said they are only at 12.6kw because of a ch9 in Bethlehem PA. So today I built a 96", 8 element (1 DE, 1 reflector, 6 directors) yagi using only junk from my basement. I used a 1x2 for the boom, a wooden paint stirrer as the support for the driven element, and the other elements were held right on the boom with coax wire clamps. Spacing is at .2 wavelength @ 185 MHz. The elements were the same as I used for the first beam, I just had more of them. The performance is good, I get a cleaner signal and WUSA is breakup-free. I also ordered a FM trap on ebay for $4 so Ill throw that in too.

http://www.digisportshooter.com/albums/temp/IMG_5144.jpg

http://www.digisportshooter.com/albums/temp/IMG_5142.jpg

http://www.digisportshooter.com/albums/temp/IMG_5143.jpg

Nice home-brew antenna.

A suggestion: Locate your balun so the flat-leads run straight (not twisted) rearward, secure it so it doesn't move, and just run the coax straight off the rear of your 1 X 2 boom.

That twist in the balun flat wires can cause a measurable mismatch and can be eliminated by a simple dressing of the leads.

10'? :eek:

Yes, you need 8-10' of ground rod to get a proper ground capable of (hopefully) dissipating a couple million volts of lightning. To be even more careful, two bonded ground rods driven 10' apart is even better but not always practical as a dedicated antenna ground.

It's also good installation practice to have an in-line ground adaptor just prior to the coax entering your home.

I've seen the damage caused by lighting striking an outdoor antenna. Trust me, you don't want to cheap-out on having a safe installation. The choices boil down to this: Reliable, free OTA TV reception for years, or having your house burn down.

Back to tinkering with my CM4228, Y10-7-13 & CM7777 setup in my attic in another effort to reacquire WBAL and WJZ since the changeover. Attic is limited in maneuverability for the VHF due to rafters, but I've been moving it around and running tests to see if I should just give up. I've found that moving the VHF (never gets closer than about 3ft to the 4228) can drastically effect the reception of the 4228. Some locations (none that were in any way in front of the 4228) would cause me to lose every UHF station. I've found a good location that still gets me 2, 45 & 54 fairly solid out of Baltimore, but still nothing more than a blip on the signal meter for WJZ and WBAL, with 7 and 9 out of DC strong, but no 50. I do have the FM trap on the 7777 OFF as I wanted the FM reception for some receivers in my basement. Just how much of a bump should I expect if I switch that FM trap to ON? I'm assuming that will effectively negate any FM reception that I'm currently getting...

Thanks, Bob

Just how much of a bump should I expect if I switch that FM trap to ON? I'm assuming that will effectively negate any FM reception that I'm currently getting...

Thanks, BobYou will pretty much lose all FM with the trap turned on. I would try it just for the heck of it to see if WJZ-13 will come in at all. Hopefully WBAL will raise their power soon so you may have better odds on getting them too.

The 1713 isn't really designed for FM, but it seems to be working well for you.

I just have this picture of someone standing on top of a six foot ladder trying to drive a 10 ft. grounding rod in the ground. Get it in two feet, hit a rock, move it , try gain, hit a rock , pull it back out. I just can't see how that would work.
Obviously, must be a way to do it that I've never thought of.
I have two outside antennas on each end of the house, 25 ft mounting pipe along side of the house,@ ground level, one foot in the ground, other end mounted to the peak of the house. So far ...,so good, !

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for sharing your significant experience and recommendations.

HDTV Sparky raises a good question. Practically, how does an average homeowner drive an 8 to 10 ft ground rod into the ground?

Thanks

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for sharing your significant experience and recommendations.

HDTV Sparky raises a good question. Practically, how does an average homeowner drive an 8 to 10 ft ground rod into the ground?

Thanks

Don't mostly people attach it to their water main? At least when you have a real copper main?

I have both, as I was lucky enough that the folks who installed my generator also installed a 10-foot ground rod. And I installed a 6 or 8 foot ground rod when I put in my satellite dish.

If you have a new-ish house, the backfill around the foundation, within about 4-6 feet of the house, is usually easy to drive a copper rod into.

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for sharing your significant experience and recommendations.

HDTV Sparky raises a good question. Practically, how does an average homeowner drive an 8 to 10 ft ground rod into the ground?

Thanks

As in other projects, the right tool really helps. Most electricians use an adaptor attached to a BIG roto-hammer. The adaptor is a tube end that slides over the end of the ground rod like one of those metal fence post drivers. All one does is crank up the roto-hammer and the weight of the hammer combined with the hammering action, drives a 10' ground rod a few minutes or less. Even if you hit a rock half way down, the rock usually breaks so no need to move the rod. I've rented the tools from the local rental house. One trick I learned was to sharpen the end of the rod with a grinder first, that way it goes through the soil and rock that much quicker.

I realize its kind of a pain to rent a special tool to do the job right, but in the end, standing back and looking at the job well done combined with the ability to sleep that much more soundly at night while the lightning flashes is well worth the time and investment.

Don't mostly people attach it to their water main? At least when you have a real copper main?

If you have a new-ish house, the backfill around the foundation, within about 4-6 feet of the house, is usually easy to drive a copper rod into.
We're on well water. The pipe from the well through the foundation is plastic. There is a completely buried ground rod for breaker box but it is at the other end of the house.

Per the National Electric Code (NEC), a separate ground rod is needed for the antenna. Additionally, the NEC requires copper wire connecting the antenna ground rod to the breaker box ground rod.

"4-6 feet of the house" sounds like a solution.

Thanks

a BIG roto-hammer
One trick sharpen the end of the rod with a grinder first
Hi Kelly,

Excellent tips! There is no substitute for experience.
Thanks!

I just received my Winegard YA 1713 and have a technical question. The bottom half of the cartridge housing box fits the top, but the "Y" shaped terminals do not line up with the aluminum leads in the top half. When they are snapped together, only the green circuitboard (for lack of a better description) in the bottom half presses against the aluminum leads in the top half. I other words, there is no metal to metal contact. Does this work through induction or something? I'm at a loss.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5019/ya1713.jpg

I just received my Winegard YA 1713 and have a technical question. The bottom half of the cartridge housing box fits the top, but the "Y" shaped terminals do not line up with the aluminum leads in the top half. When they are snapped together, only the green circuitboard (for lack of a better description) in the bottom half presses against the aluminum leads in the top half. I other words, there is no metal to metal contact. Does this work through induction or something? I'm at a loss.



More than likely not inductance but capacitance. If there aren't copper traces on the circuit board that mate up to the antenna feed, then it could be the printed circuit board thickness makes up a dielectric and capacitor.

I got a winegard 7694 a few weeks ago. There should be metal leads on either end of the green circut board. Call or e-mail winegard to confirm but I think you may need to return it.

I got a winegard 7694 a few weeks ago. There should be metal leads on either end of the green circut board. Call or e-mail winegard to confirm but I think you may need to return it.

After two hours of trying to get in touch with Winegard, they confirmed that they packaged the wrong cartridge housing. Makes me wonder how many other people will be receiving this antenna with the same problem.

After two hours of trying to get in touch with Winegard, they confirmed that they packaged the wrong cartridge housing. Makes me wonder how many other people will be receiving this antenna with the same problem.

Made in China!

I realize you guys are trying to optimize TV reception, but do you know of a good knowledge base regarding AM and FM radio reception. I've tried those Radio Shack things and they're no better (and sometimes worse) than the "speaker wire" antenna that came with my Onkyo. In my car I get quite a lot of the local FM and AM, but my home theater receiver gets only some of the area FM stations and nothing on AM.
TIA

I realize you guys are trying to optimize TV reception, but do you know of a good knowledge base regarding AM and FM radio reception. I've tried those Radio Shack things and they're no better (and sometimes worse) than the "speaker wire" antenna that came with my Onkyo. In my car I get quite a lot of the local FM and AM, but my home theater receiver gets only some of the area FM stations and nothing on AM.
TIA

Other than a separate RF loop antenna, there isn't a good combination antenna for both AM and FM. Besides that, your home stereo tuner will probably either have a 75 ohm FM antenna "F" connection and a spade or terminal connection for a 300 ohm AM antenna.

You may try the CCrane Company: http://www.ccrane.com They have a lot of AM and shortwave receivers and accessories including antennas.

So for those of you who now receive both MPT and WETA is there any consensus as to which has better picture quality? I record The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer every night and I'm wondering if I should be recording the MPT version of the WETA version? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Any thoughts on this? I figure that MPT should have better picture quality as they only have 1 subchannel (vs. 3 subchannels for WETA), but I wanted to get some other people's opinions. Thanks.

Any thoughts on this? I figure that MPT should have better picture quality as they only have 1 subchannel (vs. 3 subchannels for WETA), but I wanted to get some other people's opinions. Thanks.

My opinion is WMPT. They're 1080i and maintain a higher bitrate on the main channel than WETA does. However, WETA has looked a LOT better since they switched to 720p. (Oh, and WMPT has 2 subs, 22.2 and 22.3 V-Me)

It's all preference - why not record one night on WETA and the next on WMPT and see which one looks better to you?

My opinion is WMPT. They're 1080i and maintain a higher bitrate on the main channel than WETA does. However, WETA has looked a LOT better since they switched to 720p. (Oh, and WMPT has 2 subs, 22.2 and 22.3 V-Me)

It's all preference - why not record one night on WETA and the next on WMPT and see which one looks better to you?

Oh, I though they only had 1 subchannel, as I believe we only get 1 on Cox. Anyway, good info. Thanks.

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for sharing your significant experience and recommendations.

HDTV Sparky raises a good question. Practically, how does an average homeowner drive an 8 to 10 ft ground rod into the ground?

Thanks

I use my big rotary drill set on the impact setting...

your local truevalue hw store will happily rent you an impact drill which will make short work of the 8ft rod.

for effective lightning protection the coax should enter the house very near the service panel and be immediately grounded to the service ground located there.

jtm

I'm pleased to report that an Antennacraft Y5-7-13 installed in an attic and merely aimed somewhere towards D.C. is more than adequate for reception of both WJLA and WUSA from Elkridge (zip 21075). 98% signal strength on both, drop-out free after 30 minutes.

My signal quality is a little low (75%), but I need to adjust the height, and aim it properly still. It's also running into a 7777, which is almost undoubtedly overkill. I know it's pointed about 5-10 degrees too far East, did it on purpose so I have to lug the laptop up there tomorrow and aim it properly :D

It's worth the $25 it cost. My only knock against it is that it doesn't come with a balun and you have to supply it. I used a Channel Master 0089, always had good luck with those.

I took detailed measurements of it, and modeled it in 4Nec2. While I admittedly do not have the NEC skills to account for the metal boom and the fact that the driven element is actually electrically connected to the boom (???), the model showed that this is an excellent antenna for VHF 7-12, given the relatively small size. My model fell apart rapidly at VHF 13, though. So much so that I wouldn't recommend it for WJZ 13 more than maybe 30-35 miles out. Please take that with a grain of salt, I admittedly could not account for each and every property of this antenna in the model and it could be just as stellar at 13 as it is at 7.

Y5-7-13 for Washington ... Highly Recommend
Y5-7-13 for Baltimore ... Highly Recommend for WBAL, not so sure for WJZ at a distance

FWIW, I can get WJZ just fine with this antenna, even though it's pointed at D.C. But then again I can get WJZ with a monopole from my location. lol.

Y5-7-13 for Washington ... Highly Recommend
Y5-7-13 for Baltimore ... Highly Recommend for WBAL, not so sure for WJZ at a distanceThe Y5-7-13 is a great antenna. It should work reliably for WJZ up to 50 miles out un-amplified; WBAL, about 30-35 miles. In most cases, I do no like to amplify VHF. It just isn't necessary unless in a deep fringe situation.

The Y5-7-13 is a great antenna. It should work reliably for WJZ up to 50 miles out un-amplified; WBAL, about 30-35 miles. In most cases, I do no like to amplify VHF. It just isn't necessary unless in a deep fringe situation.

Good advice! I went digging in my "TV Stuff" box and found a nice CM VHF/UHF combiner, would you recommend attaching the Y5-7-13 after the 7777 on the downlead, or would you think that an attenuator between the Y5-7-13 and the 7777 would work better?

Of course I can try both ways easily enough, but honestly I've been debating recently as to the possible benefits of using a variable attenuator before a big amp like the 7777. Am I right or very wrong in thinking that you can attenuate most of the noise/multipath the antenna is picking up and then amp it for a good clean signal through a 4-way split?

(I really need a Spectrum Analyzer)

I went digging in my "TV Stuff" box and found a nice CM VHF/UHF combiner, would you recommend attaching the Y5-7-13 after the 7777 on the downlead . . . .Yes, this is what I would do. Please let us know if this helps!!

I believe all grounding is done within 5' of entering a structure per the NEC. I also believe the code calls for no less than a 9' ground rod. Any additional ground rods serving the structure "MUST" be interconnected (with ground strap or 6AWG solid copper) to prevent "Ground Potential" shock. Do not put any sharp bends in the ground wire!

I used to install "Star" grounds, which required nine 9' ground rods and a regular application of brine.

Don't forget to ground your tower or mounting pole.

I also use a cable ground block at the tower and the structure entrance.

I believe all grounding is done within 5' of entering a structure per the NEC. I also believe the code calls for no less than a 9' ground rod. Any additional ground rods serving the structure "MUST" be interconnected (with ground strap or 6AWG solid copper) to prevent "Ground Potential" shock. Do not put any sharp bends in the ground wire!

I used to install "Star" grounds, which required nine 9' ground rods and a regular application of brine.

Don't forget to ground your tower or mounting pole.

I also use a cable ground block at the tower and the structure entrance.

You're correct. In fact, if I bothered to rent a BA rotohammer and ground rod driving tool, I'd go ahead and drive two 10' rods 10' apart then bond them together. With the red clay soil and lightning around these parts, I'd want to make sure the ground was pretty good. After all, ground rods are cheap! Okay the copper ground wire is a little pricey, but you'll only have to do it once.

WBAL 11's Special Temporary Authority application to test increased power at15.6 kW and 26.6 kW has been granted. WBAL applied for 2 alternate power levels to see how much interference they create with other stations. According to WBAL's filing, they have the equipment to increase to 26.6 kW, so the station should be able to increase power pretty quickly.

WBAL 11's Special Temporary Authority application to test increased power at15.6 kW and 26.6 kW has been granted. WBAL applied for 2 alternate power levels to see how much interference they create with other stations. According to WBAL's filing, they have the equipment to increase to 26.6 kW, so the station should be able to increase power pretty quickly.

Finally! Excellent news. I'm only 16 miles from TV Hill but WBAL has been exasperating. Some nights its great (despite a relatively low signal strength) and some nights (like last night) they are unwatchable. All the while, WJZ (with its added power) comes in like a champ. Now if only WNUV increases their power and maybe even their signal radius, life would be good (if one could think of old Seinfeld re-runs as a good life?) :-)

Any thoughts on this? I figure that MPT should have better picture quality as they only have 1 subchannel (vs. 3 subchannels for WETA), but I wanted to get some other people's opinions. Thanks.

For HD, MPT is better. They are broadcasting at 1080i whereas WETA went down to 720p. Actually, I think MPT's SD channel is a bit better too.
J

WBAL 11's Special Temporary Authority application to test increased power at15.6 kW and 26.6 kW has been granted. WBAL applied for 2 alternate power levels to see how much interference they create with other stations. According to WBAL's filing, they have the equipment to increase to 26.6 kW, so the station should be able to increase power pretty quickly.

Just heard that WBAL won't start testing at these higher power levels until early August....

Hi all,

I was trying to get my DVR(Sony DHG-HDD) working last night when I realized there was no signal. I had signal when I started playing with the settings of the DVR. This morning, I found out the whole house was out. I have over the roof HDTV antenna and a UHF/VHF pre-amp (in attic) set up by Fairfax Antenna. The wiring is super complicated. What could cause complete outage? Could it be the pre-amp?

Many thanks for your help,

Jane

Hi all,

I was trying to get my DVR(Sony DHG-HDD) working last night when I realized there was no signal. I had signal when I started playing with the settings of the DVR. This morning, I found out the whole house was out. I have over the roof HDTV antenna and a UHF/VHF pre-amp (in attic) set up by Fairfax Antenna. The wiring is super complicated. What could cause complete outage? Could it be the pre-amp?

Many thanks for your help,

Jane

It could be the pre-amp, but I've never lost mine. I have lost the power supply that provides power to the pre-amp though. It would be a wall-wart power supply going into a power inserter (it looks kind of like a splitter, but has the power wire going into it instead of the third RF cable).

Good luck!
.

I'm located 10 miles west south west of baltimore and about 25 miles north of D.C. in Oella, Md. I installed a winegard 7694 a couple weeks ago and have had good results. I'm pulling in all of Baltimore and 4/5/7/9/50/66 out of D.C.

WETA and MHZ have been very spotty.

Just curious to find out if anyone in my area (elkridge/columbia/Ellicott City/Catonsville) has been able to pullin MHZ consistantly.

My next step is to add a Winegard amp. Hope that does the trick.

Yesterday I ran an OTA update scan for new digital channels on my Sony Bravia KDL26S2010 and after finding 5 new channels at about the half way point in the scan, progress stopped. The new channels are for MHz Networks at 30.1 through 30.5. The signal is too weak to actually use them here in Baltimore, but they are now added to the channel list.

I called Sony and was advised to factory reset the TV and rescan from scratch. This resulted in the scan stalling at about the same point and after only getting some of the channels I received before I did the reset.

Anyone else with a Sony notice anything like this recently? It seems related to a recent change with MHz Networks because these channels have not shown up in prior scans.

This resulted in the scan stalling at about the same point and after only getting some of the channels I received before I did the reset.Not sure if your Sony will do this but, pause the scan right before it gets to channel 24, then unhook the antenna. Restart the scan, and then stop again quicky after passing 24. Re-hook the antenna, & resume scanning. This procedure may not work for Sony, but it does on Samsung models.

Thanks, I don't think the Sony can pause, but I did something similar and got back close to where I was.

The antenna is an amplified Square Shooter, so after I picked up as many channels as I could until the stall with the amplifier in place, I re-ran the scan with the power to the amplifier off. As soon as the TV picked up one additional new station I ran to the basement and powered the amp back up. Without the amp, the TV likely doesn't see channel 30.1 and the scan ran to completion.

It's just weird that this just started after having been able to scan for new channels for so long. I'm only guessing about the MHz Network having something to do with this. The same thing also happens with another similar Sony in the house so I don't think both TV's could have gone bad at the same time.

I'm located 10 miles west south west of baltimore and about 25 miles north of D.C. in Oella, Md. I installed a winegard 7694 a couple weeks ago and have had good results. I'm pulling in all of Baltimore and 4/5/7/9/50/66 out of D.C.
WETA and MHZ have been very spotty.
Just curious to find out if anyone in my area (elkridge/columbia/Ellicott City/Catonsville) has been able to pullin MHZ consistantly.

My next step is to add a Winegard amp. Hope that does the trick.

I am a little further south in Beltsville, and with the CM4228 in the attic WETA and MHZ give 100% signals.

Yes, this is what I would do. Please let us know if this helps!!

Unfortunately, I had to take down the Y5-7-13 temporarily due to the fact that it went where I had an antenna especially for 48 (4) and 50 set up with a UHF 49 JoinTenna hooked into the main feed. The C4 I'm currently using for the rest of D.C. has issues with those upper channels and we had major problems with them without the special set up, so I had to put it back to prevent an argument with the Mrs.

When I do get around to finding a new home for the VHF, I'll try it sans-amp and let you guys know what happens. I don't think I can get enough signal to push it through a 4-way split without help, but we'll see! Maybe in August.

I'm located 10 miles west south west of baltimore and about 25 miles north of D.C. in Oella, Md. I installed a winegard 7694 a couple weeks ago and have had good results. I'm pulling in all of Baltimore and 4/5/7/9/50/66 out of D.C.

WETA and MHZ have been very spotty.

Just curious to find out if anyone in my area (elkridge/columbia/Ellicott City/Catonsville) has been able to pullin MHZ consistantly.

My next step is to add a Winegard amp. Hope that does the trick.

I'm northwest of you in Eldersburg and I pull MHz 1-5 in without problem. My tuners don't even see MHz 6-10, though.

WETA is low strength, but it locks.

I'm using an old Radio Shack UHF/VHF/FM antenna on a rotor with a Channel Master preamp. Sorry I don't recall the model numbers, I've had the antenna since 1995.

I just leave the antenna pointed toward DC and I seem to pull in both cities without difficulty. Before analog shutdown, I did have to move the antenna to be sure the Baltimore stations didn't break up.

You aren't getting My20, 14, or 32?

Yesterday I ran an OTA update scan for new digital channels on my Sony Bravia KDL26S2010 and after finding 5 new channels at about the half way point in the scan, progress stopped. The new channels are for MHz Networks at 30.1 through 30.5. The signal is too weak to actually use them here in Baltimore, but they are now added to the channel list.

I called Sony and was advised to factory reset the TV and rescan from scratch. This resulted in the scan stalling at about the same point and after only getting some of the channels I received before I did the reset.

Anyone else with a Sony notice anything like this recently? It seems related to a recent change with MHz Networks because these channels have not shown up in prior scans.

Yes, I have noticed the same stalling of the progress bar on my Sony up here in the Va. hills north of Winchester. I disconnected the antenna and the scan does complete, so I assume that something being broadcast is confusing the scan program. I already have all the mhz scanned in, but it still does not complete.

Yesterday I ran an OTA update scan for new digital channels on my Sony Bravia KDL26S2010 and after finding 5 new channels at about the half way point in the scan, progress stopped. The new channels are for MHz Networks at 30.1 through 30.5. The signal is too weak to actually use them here in Baltimore, but they are now added to the channel list.

I called Sony and was advised to factory reset the TV and rescan from scratch. This resulted in the scan stalling at about the same point and after only getting some of the channels I received before I did the reset.

Anyone else with a Sony notice anything like this recently? It seems related to a recent change with MHz Networks because these channels have not shown up in prior scans.

I have a Sony SXRD, and scanned about a week or so ago. I didn't have any problems. I did pick up the Mhz stations, but had no issues.
J

Hi almost neighbor! I work in Beltsville, but don't live there.:p


I am a little further south in Beltsville, and with the CM4228 in the attic WETA and MHZ give 100% signals.

Here's something strange: When I tune to 54-1 I get a blank screen, when I go one channel up it goes to another 54-1 (the right one from Baltimore), when I went to my signal meter for the blank one it said it was on RF 21 (16-1 from Salisbury). Anyone else have this mix up?

Here's something strange: When I tune to 54-1 I get a blank screen, when I go one channel up it goes to another 54-1 (the right one from Baltimore), when I went to my signal meter for the blank one it said it was on RF 21 (16-1 from Salisbury). Anyone else have this mix up?

It's probably completely and totally irrelevant, but there were a lot of problems on 54 (40) tonight with blank screens when they were trying to advertise the thunderstorm warnings earlier tonight. I don't see how that would tie into your issue with 16.1 coming up as 54, but I can corroborate the blank picture on Baltimore's 54.1 tonight. (Note: 54 (40) is one of my few 'perfect' channels .. 100% on strength/SNR at all times of the day since 6/12 ... I can pretty much guarantee that I saw what they were broadcasting)

On 7/30, Comcast is moving NBATV and NHL Network to Digital Classic. NFL and NFL HD move to Digital Starter. ESPN Classic moves to Sports and Entertainment.

Anyone having problems with WJZ since Thu night? I thought it was just due to the storms Thu night. But Fri night and even this morning (Sat) its the same: very weak signal strength, pixilation when there is a picture, but most of the time nothing because the signal is too weak. Nothing has changed on my end - in fact WJZ's tower-mate WBAL is now better than they had been over the past couple of weeks and WMAR is just outstanding.

Okay, this is getting to be ridiculous. On MPT-HD this morning...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148615&d=1248536732

Whoever is responsible for this mess should be embarrassed.

AccuWeather Goes High-Def in Baltimore

CBS O&O WJZ-TV Launches ‘CinemaLive HD'

by George Winslow -- Multichannel News, 7/22/2009 3:33:04 PM EDT

CBS owned-and-operated station WJZ-TV in Baltimore has launched the weather display system CinemaLive HD from AccuWeather, a move AccuWeather hopes will help it break into larger markets and ink more deals with bigger station groups.

"Before we introduced this system, we had a few stations in the top 25 markets but most of our clients were in [markets] 25 to 200," said AccuWeather founder and president Dr. Joel N. Myers. "We see CinemaLive as a real game changer that will allow us to enter those top 25 markets."

Additionally, CinemaLive has also launched on WJLA in Washington, D.C., an Albritton Communications-owned ABC affiliate, said Myers. "We recently got a commitment from the Journal Broadcast Group as the exclusive provider of weather solutions," he added. "We expect a number of additional group deals like that to come about in the next few months."

Several factors set the product apart, according to Myers, including its forecasting tools, ease of use, integration with Microsoft Virtual Earth, high-quality graphics and its use of virtual sets.

"You wind up with the kind of network quality graphics and presentation that local stations are usually not able to do," he said.

In a tough economic climate, the system also has some significant cost advantages for stations going to HD for their weather. "One of the questions we've gotten from stations is whether going to HD will require a more expensive set," Myers said. "One of the great advantages of CinemaLive HD is that it offers virtual set technology, which is really a savings because some of these sets can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

"Even if you are working with a relatively limited existing green-screen area, you can deliver an image of a very large newsroom or presentation without doing a lot of reworking of the physical sets," he said.

These features also dramatically improve quality and help eliminate the traditional problem of the weather presenter getting in the way of the map or graphics.

"Many of the people that are using CinemaLive now have the presenter stand in a 360-degree 3-D environment," Myers said. "It is really changing the way the weather is presented."

The system is also easily integrated into some of their other products and allows stations to seamlessly repurpose content for mobile and Internet offerings. "We are a major player with weather online and on mobile, so there is a lot we can do to help stations with their three screen strategies," Myers said.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/316136-AccuWeather_Goes_High_Def_in_Baltimore.php?nid=2387&rid=#reg_visitor_id#&source=title

It's probably completely and totally irrelevant, but there were a lot of problems on 54 (40) tonight with blank screens when they were trying to advertise the thunderstorm warnings earlier tonight. I don't see how that would tie into your issue with 16.1 coming up as 54, but I can corroborate the blank picture on Baltimore's 54.1 tonight. (Note: 54 (40) is one of my few 'perfect' channels .. 100% on strength/SNR at all times of the day since 6/12 ... I can pretty much guarantee that I saw what they were broadcasting)
speaking of weather relatred issues i rescanned last night and got 35 channels. best i've ever done. baltimore washington and salisbury on one setting.

Anyone else having issues getting NBC 4 this morning? My Tivo was able to get all of SNL last night. When I woke up this morning I get 0 signal...

Anyone else having issues getting NBC 4 this morning? My Tivo was able to get all of SNL last night. When I woke up this morning I get 0 signal...

It must be down. It isn't showing up in either SD or HD on RCN.

Anyone else having issues getting NBC 4 this morning? My Tivo was able to get all of SNL last night. When I woke up this morning I get 0 signal...

NBC DTV DOWN! I have 2 of my antenna sets programmed to auto start with NBC Today Show at 8AM on Sundays and this morning nothing. There is nothing on 4-1, 4-2 or 4-3. I check 3 ATSC tuner sets connected to 2 different antennas and nothing. The Comcast cable feed is ok. I went to www.NBCwashington.com to see if they had any information and nothing there either. I sent an email as I could not find a local phone number to call in a report.

I left my tv on tuned to 4-1. NBC Service for Washington DC back on at 8:42am

I left my tv on tuned to 4-1. NBC Service for Washington DC back on at 8:42am

Only 6 minutes of NBC broadcast. Now back off at 8:48am

Only 6 minutes of NBC broadcast. Now back off at 8:48am

Back on at 8:51am

Is anyone having issues with QUBO, channel 66.2? I can get 66.1, 66.3, and 66.4 fine, but 66.2 is blank. The tv says it locks onto the station, but nothing is coming through.

Yesterday I ran an OTA update scan for new digital channels on my Sony Bravia KDL26S2010 and after finding 5 new channels at about the half way point in the scan, progress stopped. The new channels are for MHz Networks at 30.1 through 30.5. The signal is too weak to actually use them here in Baltimore, but they are now added to the channel list.

I called Sony and was advised to factory reset the TV and rescan from scratch. This resulted in the scan stalling at about the same point and after only getting some of the channels I received before I did the reset.

Anyone else with a Sony notice anything like this recently? It seems related to a recent change with MHz Networks because these channels have not shown up in prior scans.

I have a KDL32S3000 and am having the same issue. I accidentally went to auto scan versus the add scan, and now I'm missing channels 4.1-4.3, 5.1, 20.1, and 50.1-50.2 if I stop the scan at the stuck point.

I have a KDL32S3000 and am having the same issue. I accidentally went to auto scan versus the add scan, and now I'm missing channels 4.1-4.3, 5.1, 20.1, and 50.1-50.2 if I stop the scan at the stuck point.
Many ATSC tuners allow manual tuning and will add a station to the list if it finds a station at the physical RF channel. However, the software in the ATSC tuners vary widely in whether they allow direct channel entry. Try tuning to 33.1 (or 33.3), 34, 35, 36, 48, 50.1 to see if the DC stations show up. I have not seen any problems with tuning or scanning for WNVC 30.1 (RF 24), but the station must be doing something to mess up some tuners. Has anyone gotten a response from WNVC?

Is anyone having issues with QUBO, channel 66.2? I can get 66.1, 66.3, and 66.4 fine, but 66.2 is blank. The tv says it locks onto the station, but nothing is coming through.

I noticed it was missing a few days ago on my VIP722, but for some odd reason it works fine on my Zenith converter box.

I have a KDL32S3000 and am having the same issue. I accidentally went to auto scan versus the add scan, and now I'm missing channels 4.1-4.3, 5.1, 20.1, and 50.1-50.2 if I stop the scan at the stuck point.

I've tried a couple of different ways to pick up the missing channels and this works ok.

1. Run the add channels scan with the antenna attached and carefully note the position of the progress bar where the scan stalls and then cancel the scan.

2. Disconnect the antenna (using an A/B switch makes this much easier) and re-run the scan. As soon as the scan passes the point where the stall occurred, reconnect the antenna and the scan should complete and pick up additional channels.

The timing of the reconnect if critical. Too early and the scan stalls again, too late and you miss one or two channels you want. It took me about three times to get all of the channels back.

Anyone notice wmar 2 rf 38, big increase in signal. Not sure if wjal 68 rf 39 reduced power or what but i have been getting 38 wmar like 85% the last few days. I have not been able to get rf 38 channel 13 or channel 2 since wjal went on the air on rf 39 back in april.

Anyone notice wmar 2 rf 38, big increase in signal.WMAR has been running maximum allowable power since it took over RF 38. Maybe WJAL is fine tuning their power or directional antenna pattern in your direction. I am noticing quite an increase on WHAG-25 here. It has gone from one bar to 5 bars(out of 10). Have you noticed a change on WHAG?

Okay, this is getting to be ridiculous. On MPT-HD this morning...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148615&d=1248536732

Whoever is responsible for this mess should be embarrassed.Anything is better than that annoying stretch-o-vision.

well with me being only 12 miles from hags' tower its hard to tell if there a difference or not. I did notice some of the other posts having trouble with channel 4 wrc I am not getting any signal at all from that channel. If wmar (2) stays this way and just a little bit more power from channel 11 wbal I would be pretty happy right now I will be getting all the majors from DC and Baltimore very well finally.

WMAR has been running maximum allowable power since it took over RF 38. Maybe WJAL is fine tuning their power or directional antenna pattern in your direction. I am noticing quite an increase on WHAG-25 here. It has gone from one bar to 5 bars(out of 10). Have you noticed a change on WHAG?
I've also noticed a more stable and bigger window (82° to 188°) for WMAR. I'll talk with Lucky and see what's happening at WJAL. WHAG informed me awhile back that they were at full-power and done fine-tuning their system.

Lately, I have noticed a big difference in weather related reception.

What was happening with WBFF yesterday? They had a serious echo chamber going on with Fox News and I also noticed it on ThisTV. I know it wasn't a network issue because WPMT didn't have the echo.

Okay, this is getting to be ridiculous. On MPT-HD this morning...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148615&d=1248536732

Whoever is responsible for this mess should be embarrassed.

Is this on cable, by any chance? Apparently Comcast is doing that to the WNUV signal, on both the analog and on HD.

Update - they just changed the 45 HD signal so that it's "postage stamped". too, as of 2:00ish.. We have a call into our contact there, but haven't heard back.
.

<edit>
What was happening with WBFF yesterday? They had a serious echo chamber going on with Fox News and I also noticed it on ThisTV. I know it wasn't a network issue because WPMT didn't have the echo.

I watched WBFF yesterday evening, this morning, and just now, and I don't have a problem with the audio... I also just checked ThisTV, and the audio is OK. I haven't changed anything in the transmission path on WBFF (we're doing the mobile test on WNUV, if anyone can see it).

I can't think of anything that would effect both WBFF and ThisTV. There's nothing in common until after both channels are encoded.

Also, we have not received any calls or e-mails from anyone about this (but the e-mails trickle down hill from the GM, so there can be quite a delay...)

I'm not sure what the issue is - I'd be interested to find out!

BTW, was this OTA or some other source?
.

Is this on cable, by any chance? Apparently Comcast is doing that to the WNUV signal, on both the analog and on HD.

Update - they just changed the 45 HD signal so that it's "postage stamped". too, as of 2:00ish.. We have a call into our contact there, but haven't heard back.
.

We saw that on MPT this weekend OTA, on both WMPT and WMPB. We hadn't noticed any audio issues with WBFF, but honestly we didn't watch much TV yesterday afternoon/evening.

COMCAST MOCO has moved QAM channels around again. 4.1 and 9.1 are now up at 108.1 and 108.3. They used to map to 4.1 and 9.1 but do not now. 5.1 is now at 5.1 and 7.1 is at 17.1. I do not know if they really moved them or just changed the PSIP info to reflect different locations.

I have WJAL 68 (39.1) for the first time since the fire, so they must have done some tweaking. I now also have to try to not get WHAG 25 (26.1) as it is blazing here in Franklin County, PA. It will be interesting to see what other changes come about with the many tv signals as time goes on.

I don't know what WRC was up to, but since they went off the air today around noon, I've had the most spectacular signal from them (see attached). Whatever you guys did, keep it up!!! And if you didn't actually do anything ... DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING.

(Prior to today, WRC would be 'jumpy' for me, the signal-to-noise ratio would fluctuate a great deal, now it's pretty solid.

COMCAST MOCO has moved QAM channels around again. 4.1 and 9.1 are now up at 108.1 and 108.3. They used to map to 4.1 and 9.1 but do not now. 5.1 is now at 5.1 and 7.1 is at 17.1. I do not know if they really moved them or just changed the PSIP info to reflect different locations.
I dunno. WRC has always been 108.1 and WUSA at 108.19 (?). Last night, they were gone. This is the second time in a 2 week period they have disappeared on me. Last time, they came back the next day-we'll see about this time.
J

I'm one of the folks that have found their Sony TV hanging up when performing a scan or digital channel add. This morning I ran it again and just before it stalled it found 2 new channels. the first was 33.8 labeled DATA. the second was channel 0. that comes at the end of the channel list. I can not then go back to 2 by moving forward only channel down to it. could it be this stalling problem is not being caused by the channel 30 signals but WHUT 32 doing something off standard.

BTW, was this OTA or some other source?
LOL - I don't know of any source (other than OTA) that would allow me to have access to WPMT FOX out of Lancaster, WTAJ CBS out of Altoona, WHAG NBC from Hagerstown, and WBFF/WNUV FOX/CW from Baltimore on the same system. :)

Thanks for checking markbulla.

This morning (at 139° on my digital rotator control) my APEX DT502 is acquiring WMAR, WBAL, WJZ, WUTB, WHAG, WWPB, WBFF, WNUV, WWPX, WJAL, and whatever MPT 22 and 67 is.

I'm one of the folks that have found their Sony TV hanging up when performing a scan or digital channel add. This morning I ran it again and just before it stalled it found 2 new channels. the first was 33.8 labeled DATA. the second was channel 0. that comes at the end of the channel list. I can not then go back to 2 by moving forward only channel down to it. could it be this stalling problem is not being caused by the channel 30 signals but WHUT 32 doing something off standard.
Yea, I just found channel 0 last night. It wasn't there when I scanned a couple of weeks ago. I can't forward after it either.
J

I'm one of the folks that have found their Sony TV hanging up when performing a scan or digital channel add. This morning I ran it again and just before it stalled it found 2 new channels. the first was 33.8 labeled DATA. the second was channel 0. that comes at the end of the channel list. I can not then go back to 2 by moving forward only channel down to it. could it be this stalling problem is not being caused by the channel 30 signals but WHUT 32 doing something off standard.

If this is unique to Sony, maybe the Sony tuner is off standard...

This morning (at 139° on my digital rotator control) my APEX DT502 is acquiring WMAR, WBAL, WJZ, WUTB, WHAG, WWPB, WBFF, WNUV, WWPX, WJAL, and whatever MPT 22 and 67 is.
22 and 67 are the same. It is Maryland Public Television (PBS). The 22 tower is located near Annapolis and the 67 tower is near Owings Mills (I think).

I'm one of the folks that have found their Sony TV hanging up when performing a scan or digital channel add. This morning I ran it again and just before it stalled it found 2 new channels. the first was 33.8 labeled DATA. the second was channel 0. that comes at the end of the channel list. I can not then go back to 2 by moving forward only channel down to it. could it be this stalling problem is not being caused by the channel 30 signals but WHUT 32 doing something off standard.

If this is unique to Sony, maybe the Sony tuner is off standard...

According to RabbitEars, 33.8 and 33.9 are UpdateTV data streams. Whether WHUT has not configured something correctly or the Sony tuners have a bug is not clear.

Sony tuners don't handle UpdateTV streams properly.

- Trip

Is this on cable, by any chance? Apparently Comcast is doing that to the WNUV signal, on both the analog and on HD.

It was on cable, RCN to be specific.

According to RabbitEars, 33.8 and 33.9 are UpdateTV data streams. Whether WHUT has not configured something correctly or the Sony tuners have a bug is not clear.

I hope something gets straightened out, the workaround is pretty cumbersome and Sony was not much help when I called them...

systems2000

you must be close to my loacation i pretty much got the same exact channels at 137 degrees Still have a little trouble with the vhf 7 9 and 11 just wondering if channel 60 ion rf 12 is messing with my vhf channels and I am not sure how to degrade it if this is true!!

COMCAST MOCO has moved QAM channels around again. 4.1 and 9.1 are now up at 108.1 and 108.3. They used to map to 4.1 and 9.1 but do not now. 5.1 is now at 5.1 and 7.1 is at 17.1. I do not know if they really moved them or just changed the PSIP info to reflect different locations.
WRC-HD is now 108.1801 and WUSA-HD is now 108.1803.
Am I going to have to rescan every other week now?
I'm underwhelmed.
Jack

What is UpdateTV and why doesn't my tuner pick it up?

22 and 67 are the same. It is Maryland Public Television (PBS). The 22 tower is located near Annapolis and the 67 tower is near Owings Mills (I think).
I knew all that. I didn't have the call-signs when I posted. That's what I was referring to. :)

WTAJ is throwing a fit today. I had to set the Zinwell to WJZ for the wife's Y&R. Lucky it was coming in solid, after I added a 6dB pad to the input of the DA. WTAJ was still breaking up afterwards.

Jack,

My 3410a shows 4.1 & 2 at 108.1 & 2 and 9.1 & 2 at 108.3 & 4.

For how long, I do not know... Rescans are not fun, especially with this machine. Screws up the TV Guide ON-Screen (TVGOS). It is just starting to work again after the big switcheroo.

Thanks for the info.

What is UpdateTV and why doesn't my tuner pick it up?

Go to rabbitears.info for full details. In brief, UpdateTV is an OTA method of delivering firmware updates to some devices.

http://www.updatelogic.com/network.html
My Sammy picks up 33.8, 33.9 on scans.

Jack,

My 3410a shows 4.1 & 2 at 108.1 & 2 and 9.1 & 2 at 108.3 & 4.

For how long, I do not know... Rescans are not fun, especially with this machine. Screws up the TV Guide ON-Screen (TVGOS). It is just starting to work again after the big switcheroo.

Thanks for the info.
Yea, they are also playing peek-a-boo with the digital versions of their analog channels and some digital only channels. I lost History international, and gained TBS-HD, and Universal HD for now.
Go figure.
J

Anyone having problems with WJZ since Thu night? I thought it was just due to the storms Thu night. But Fri night and even this morning (Sat) its the same: very weak signal strength, pixilation when there is a picture, but most of the time nothing because the signal is too weak. Nothing has changed on my end - in fact WJZ's tower-mate WBAL is now better than they had been over the past couple of weeks and WMAR is just outstanding.

I thought I'd update this. Besides posting this, I had also sent email to WJZ. Their engineers were great - they got back to me several times over the weekend (thanks guys!). Turns out, WJZ did make a change last Thu - they went to their directional antennas and rather than starving me signal-wise, they are now blasting me. We determined that I'm in their full-power lobe and their signal was overdriving my Radio Shack Digital Stream DTV converter box.

I have an antenna in the attic - no pre-amp (only 16 miles from TV Hill) and had been getting WJZ great before the Thu change. The WJZ engineers suggested that I disconnect my pre-amp (ain't got one) or try a pair of rabbit ears just to see what happens. Before the DTV transition, I tried rabbit ears and got only 1 station (MPT 22 since their tower is only about 6 miles from my house). But I tried the rabbit ears anyway - low and behold the almost non-existent signal from WJZ went up to near 90 on the Digital Stream signal strength meter!

One suggestion was to use a 6dB F Pad in line but I fear that this will attenuate all the stations, none of which are overdriving me other than WJZ. But weirdly enough, by moving my DTV converter box off the top of my TV to the side of it has reduced the overdrive enough to enable me to watch WJZ w/o any dropouts. Its only about 65-70 on the signal strength meter but now works fine. Gotta love the "black art" of RF propagation!

Does anyone know if WMAR-2 plans to continue broadcasting the 4x3 SD feed of its progamming on its subchannel forever? I guess I might have understood it prior to the analog shutdown...ok, not really. But I don't see any need for it now.

The problem with Sony TV tuners stalling halfway on scans seems to have been worked out this morning. I did several and had no problem. anybody else find that they have been healed ?

Maybe this is why I'm acquiring Baltimore stations more easily. WMAR, WJZ, and WNUV are 100% reliable now and WBAL, WUTB, and WBFF are dictated by the day/night atmosphere.

WPMT doesn't seem to have been affected, but I may have to re-evaluate the WTAJ issue.

I thought I'd update this. Besides posting this, I had also sent email to WJZ. Their engineers were great - they got back to me several times over the weekend (thanks guys!). Turns out, WJZ did make a change last Thu - they went to their directional antennas

Is there a description of their new pattern available? I'm in Parkton, (along I83 near PA line) where are you located?

tnx
jtm

Is there a description of their new pattern available? I'm in Parkton, (along I83 near PA line) where are you located?

tnx
jtmHere is the polar pattern
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?frame=Y&temp=85234&rotate=0.00&p0=0.799&p10=0.880&p20=0.939&p30=0.978&p40=0.997&p46=1.000&p50=0.999&p60=0.985&p70=0.964&p80=0.944&p90=0.935&p100=0.935&p110=0.937&p120=0.935&p130=0.935&p140=0.944&p150=0.964&p160=0.985&p170=0.999&p174=1.000&p180=0.997&p190=0.978&p200=0.939&p210=0.880&p220=0.799&p230=0.699&p240=0.589&p250=0.493&p260=0.446&p270=0.458&p280=0.494&p290=0.512&p300=0.494&p310=0.458&p320=0.446&p330=0.493&p340=0.589&p350=0.699&p360=0.799&

This is the projected coverage map
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1237603.html

Looks like you are getting right around 50% of the signal strength that you were getting before the new antenna was installed.

Does anyone know if WMAR-2 plans to continue broadcasting the 4x3 SD feed of its progamming on its subchannel forever? I guess I might have understood it prior to the analog shutdown...ok, not really. But I don't see any need for it now.
Its not just WMAR, WETA does it too. I don't see the point either. Strangely, Comcast MOCO gives a digital SD version of all of the major networks. Seems like a waste to me.
J

one thing is missing from the discussion about the new WJZ directional antenna. they have been using a horizontally polarized pattern they are now elliptical. I have found that stations with the elliptical pattern do better in just about all areas.

If this can be quantified and confirmed, maybe the FCC needs to mandate elliptical patterns for full-power stations.

If this can be quantified and confirmed, maybe the FCC needs to mandate elliptical patterns for full-power stations.
It probably can't be quantified and confirmed in all reception situations. Although the proponents of elliptical and circular polarization claim a 4 to 5db improvement (doubling power gives 3db) it appears that improvement applies only to certain circumstances such as indoor antennas, terrain issues, and VHF stations being received with UHF antennas. One thing for sure is that any station interested in the upcoming M/H mobile standard would probably want both horizontal and vertical polarization.

It probably can't be quantified and confirmed in all reception situations. Although the proponents of elliptical and circular polarization claim a 4 to 5db improvement (doubling power gives 3db) it appears that improvement applies only to certain circumstances such as indoor antennas, terrain issues, and VHF stations being received with UHF antennas. One thing for sure is that any station interested in the upcoming M/H mobile standard would probably want both horizontal and vertical polarization.

Usually a 10-15% vertical component is all that is needed or desired on the transmission side, especially in the UHF band. Those stations that made the move to a 50-50 power split have had issues with additional multipath reflections from delayed vertical reflections received by horizontal only antennas.

The problem with Sony TV tuners stalling halfway on scans seems to have been worked out this morning. I did several and had no problem. anybody else find that they have been healed ?

Same here in Baltimore. I'm glad you posted, I was not sure if something actually changed or if the current thick atmospheric conditions were preventing reception of the offending signal.

On D* last night, noticed a WHUT-HD logo vs. a plain old WHUT logo. The actual channel still looked SD on D*, the entire 16x9 pic still was framed. Anyone with over-the-air receivers notice this?

I have a YA 1713 and a CM4228 running into a CM7777, all three are in my attic. I have the power supply located just a couple of feet after the preamp, then a 30'-40' run to the TV with no splitters in between. Does it matter where the power supply is placed in that run? I've read conflicting answers about this and wonder if I should move it.

Does it matter where the power supply is placed in that run?No, reception wise, it shouldn't matter. It may shorten the life of the power supply if the attic temperature is excessively high though.

No, reception wise, it shouldn't matter. It may shorten the life of the power supply if the attic temperature is excessively high though.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

On Solid Signal's website under the description of of the CM7777, the "up the coax cable" in the following statement is what I found most confusing:

"The unit inside the building injects voltage up the coax cable, so there is no need to put a power supply outside."

They make it sound as if you have the power supply too close to preamp, then the remaining distance to the tv, in my case 30 to 40 feet, won't be amplified.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

On Solid Signal's website under the description of of the CM7777, the "up the coax cable" in the following statement is what I found most confusing:

"The unit inside the building injects voltage up the coax cable, so there is no need to put a power supply outside."

They make it sound as if you have the power supply too close to preamp, then the remaining distance to the tv, in my case 30 to 40 feet, won't be amplified.

No, that's not what they meant.

The power supply inserter can go anywhere in the line between the TV/CECB and the amplifier module and the amplified signal will still go all the way to the receiver end.

No, that's not what they meant.

The power supply inserter can go anywhere in the line between the TV/CECB and the amplifier module and the amplified signal will still go all the way to the receiver end.

...as long as there are no non-power passing splitters or other equipment between the power inserter and the amplifier.
.

Comcast has moved NFL Network/HD to Digital Starter.

There is a blank channel among the sports channels. Might be ESPNU.

Comcast has moved NFL Network/HD to Digital Starter.

There is a blank channel among the sports channels. Might be ESPNU.

Nice. Now where are msnbc-hd and tcm-hd?

Why would you have a need for "Classic Movies" to be HD:confused:

What's up with WRC tonight? They're broadcasting but most of the PSIP data is missing. Media Center can't do a thing with it. TSReader can decode it, but there is close to no stream information at all. All I can see is the PAT data, and even that's incomplete.

edit: Sent WRC an e-mail ... hopefully they can get this fixed up soon :) They seem to have had some issues recently.

It looks like their PSIP computer locked up. Probably needs a reboot...

- Trip

It looks like their PSIP computer locked up. Probably needs a reboot...

- Trip

Must be running Windows :) [I'm allowed to say that since I'm a huge Windows guy - lol]

It probably is. Guide Builder does run on Windows.

Not that I imagine Guide Builder is the only source of PSIP, but I think most TV stations do run lots of Windows machines in critical locations.

- Trip

What's up with WRC tonight? They're broadcasting but most of the PSIP data is missing.Thanks, I thought something was wrong with my TV. I can only get WRC on 48.3, 48.4 & 48.5.

I am so close to ditching OTA once and for all - that is even after spending years advising how great it is.

Few years ago I built a HTPC running MCE and had a couple ATSC tuner cards for OTA receive.

Living outside DC we received all the local HD channels without any issue - then June 12th happened and everything went to s**t.

I've had to go in and manually add back channels then edit them again and again and again and after almost a month I am still not where I was before the change over.

On one channel (9.1, I think CBS) I cannot get a clean signal without hiccups. I have removed an attenuator, put it back, removed it again.
On another channel (4.1, frequency 48) I had this working for a while then a few days ago it stopped with No Signal.

Like I said, before the conversion I never had a problem the last couple of years.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

It looks like their PSIP computer locked up. Probably needs a reboot...

- Trip


Their computer, or them......?

Interestingly, my Insignia will accept the the raw "48" and give me the primary channel, but on 48-3. My DTX9950 is not as helpful....

Does anyone have any suggestions?Why are you using an attenuator? You don't have any strong signals in Ashburn.

I don't know what WRC was up to, but since they went off the air today around noon, I've had the most spectacular signal from them (see attached). Whatever you guys did, keep it up!!! And if you didn't actually do anything ... DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING.

(Prior to today, WRC would be 'jumpy' for me, the signal-to-noise ratio would fluctuate a great deal, now it's pretty solid.

So did WRC bump the signal strength?? I use MCE and while it shows a solid strong signal on 4.1 it cannot lock in the signal. I have tried an attenuator but that did nothing.

I am so close to ditching OTA once and for all - that is even after spending years advising how great it is.

Few years ago I built a HTPC running MCE and had a couple ATSC tuner cards for OTA receive.

Living outside DC we received all the local HD channels without any issue - then June 12th happened and everything went to s**t.

I've had to go in and manually add back channels then edit them again and again and again and after almost a month I am still not where I was before the change over.

On one channel (9.1, I think CBS) I cannot get a clean signal without hiccups. I have removed an attenuator, put it back, removed it again.
On another channel (4.1, frequency 48) I had this working for a while then a few days ago it stopped with No Signal.

Like I said, before the conversion I never had a problem the last couple of years.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I've been using Windows Media Center almost exclusively since 8/08 for all my TV needs and overall have been very happy with it. It's what enabled me to get both Baltmore and D.C. seamlessly without a rotor. That said, yes, they continue to mess with the guide data and depending on what version of MCE you're speaking of, it can create a complete and total nightmare. My immediate advise would be to get Windows 7 when it comes out, it's leaps and bounds better for OTA than anything that came before it (except "TV Pack" which was an OEM-only deal for Vista that not everyone has access to). My other advise would be to PM me for a more in-depth discussion or perhaps head over to "The Green Button" (http://www.thegreenbutton.com) for a more appropriate forum to deal with Media Center issues :-)

I'd be happy to help you any way I can, but be forewarned ... I lent an AVS member an ATSC USB tuner and it's been nothing but a nightmare for him. My advise/help may not be all that good ... :(

So did WRC bump the signal strength?? I use MCE and while it shows a solid strong signal on 4.1 it cannot lock in the signal. I have tried an attenuator but that did nothing.

WRC is having problems tonight, devices like computers that rely on PSIP data to be correct will not be able to tune it. Best to wait until they fix it before getting too frustrated.

FWIW, Media Center, especially the XP and original Vista versions, is EXTREMELY sensitive to the PSIP data being correct. Windows 7 and "TV Pack" for Vista is much much better with that, but even they can't tune WRC tonight -- the data they're sending is just too far gone right now.

On one channel (9.1, I think CBS) I cannot get a clean signal without hiccups. I have removed an attenuator, put it back, removed it again.If you are having problems with WUSA-9 in Ashburn, I would suspect an inadequate antenna. WUSA has a very robust signal up to 30-40 miles from DC when a proper outdoor or attic mounted antenna is used.

Why are you using an attenuator? You don't have any strong signals in Ashburn.

Years ago when i first setup ABC was having issues due to multipath and the attenuator cleaned it up. I thought the issue I was now experiencing was same but it isn't.

WRC is having problems tonight, devices like computers that rely on PSIP data to be correct will not be able to tune it. Best to wait until they fix it before getting too frustrated.

FWIW, Media Center, especially the XP and original Vista versions, is EXTREMELY sensitive to the PSIP data being correct. Windows 7 and "TV Pack" for Vista is much much better with that, but even they can't tune WRC tonight -- the data they're sending is just too far gone right now.

Well that is really good to hear - I knew I should've posted long before I started tearing into my HTPC.
I think I recall this having happened a few times before.
What is interesting is I also have a TivoHD that pulls for Fios (via CableCard) as well as OTA and the OTA is pulling 4.1 just fine. It also is not experiencing the hiccups on 9.1 like I am in Vista MCE.

My immediate advise would be to get Windows 7 when it comes out, it's leaps and bounds better for OTA than anything that came before it (except "TV Pack" which was an OEM-only deal for Vista that not everyone has access to).

I'll have to keep that in mind - as a Software Architect I belong to MSDN and have Win 7 but didn't want to put it on my HTPC until it was either RC or final and I was certain I was going to keep going with MCE.
Generally when this happens I go through the pains of working the atscprefs.xml snd that resolves it.
Where I really need help is in dealing with hiccups on 9.1 that for years worked fine until the digital conversion. I don't want to move my antenna (its been in position four years) and I am not sure Win 7 would help since this I believe has more to do with the ATSC vBox tuner cards and their drivers.
On Win 7 which tuner cards are you using?

If you are having problems with WUSA-9 in Ashburn, I would suspect an inadequate antenna. WUSA has a very robust signal up to 30-40 miles from DC when a proper outdoor or attic mounted antenna is used.
I disagree. I'm about 20 miles from WUSA, and I cannot get it with my attic antenna. I get all of the other DC stations.
J

<- Hence the description under my name...

It probably is. Guide Builder does run on Windows.

Not that I imagine Guide Builder is the only source of PSIP, but I think most TV stations do run lots of Windows machines in critical locations.

- Trip

I disagree. I'm about 20 miles from WUSA, and I cannot get it with my attic antenna. I get all of the other DC stations.
J

Gents, I have to agree With Digital... I had the same issues as you guys did when they did the changeover in June. At that time, all I had in my attic was 2 stacked CM4228's (primarily a UHF only antenna). I lost both WUSA and WRC myself. Once I put up a Y-10-7-13 VHF combined with the UHF's thru a CM7777, WUSA and WRC were there with no issues. Now, it did take a bit of playing around (I'm still not done yet as I want to get WBAL and WJZ from Baltimore again, 2, 45 & 54 come in just fine) with the VHF to find a good location in the attic as it would have a VERY BAD effect on UHF reception depending on where I had it located in relation to the UHF antennas. I'm alot further out than Ashburn, so I'd be willing to bet that as long as you have both UHF and VHF antennas in your attic (or better, outside) it is just a matter of adjusting their relationship to each other.

Gents, I have to agree With Digital... I had the same issues as you guys did when they did the changeover in June. At that time, all I had in my attic was 2 stacked CM4228's (primarily a UHF only antenna). I lost both WUSA and WRC myself. Once I put up a Y-10-7-13 VHF combined with the UHF's thru a CM7777, WUSA and WRC were there with no issues. Now, it did take a bit of playing around (I'm still not done yet as I want to get WBAL and WJZ from Baltimore again, 2, 45 & 54 come in just fine) with the VHF to find a good location in the attic as it would have a VERY BAD effect on UHF reception depending on where I had it located in relation to the UHF antennas. I'm alot further out than Ashburn, so I'd be willing to bet that as long as you have both UHF and VHF antennas in your attic (or better, outside) it is just a matter of adjusting their relationship to each other.

I have the CM4228 in my attic and like you it was fine until the changeover - actually all my channels were fine after the changeover. It is only in the last few weeks 9.1 started with the hiccups; on my Tivo OTA 9.1 (same source) works fine. And channel 4.1 went away completely but I understand that has happened to others as well.
I would think that if I were experiencing a signal issue I would be seeing these same problems on my Tivo Series 3.

Gents, I have to agree With Digital... I had the same issues as you guys did when they did the changeover in June. At that time, all I had in my attic was 2 stacked CM4228's (primarily a UHF only antenna). I lost both WUSA and WRC myself. Once I put up a Y-10-7-13 VHF combined with the UHF's thru a CM7777, WUSA and WRC were there with no issues. Now, it did take a bit of playing around (I'm still not done yet as I want to get WBAL and WJZ from Baltimore again, 2, 45 & 54 come in just fine) with the VHF to find a good location in the attic as it would have a VERY BAD effect on UHF reception depending on where I had it located in relation to the UHF antennas. I'm alot further out than Ashburn, so I'd be willing to bet that as long as you have both UHF and VHF antennas in your attic (or better, outside) it is just a matter of adjusting their relationship to each other.
I have no problem with any other VHF station.

I have no problem with any other VHF station.

Big J, If you have both UHF and VHF antennas, then I'd bet that it is spatial relationship of the two that is hampering you. It sure was for me. I ended up doing the walkie talkie thing with the wife to get positioning to where I can get not only WUSA and WRC, but also some of the Baltimore stations. You mention that you get all the other DC stations on VHF fine. Actually (and Digital, correct me if I'm an idiot) the only DC stations on VHF currently (that were on UHF before the changeover) are WUSA and WJLA. All others are UHF. VHF stations in Baltimore are WJZ and WBAL with all others being UHF. The CM4228 apparently (or so I've heard anyway) has some high VHF reception, but I didn't have any luck with it. Could be due to the fact that mine is in my attic though.

WRC mapping problem?

As of today the WRC channels vanished here on our Vizio VX20L. Yesterday all was well; this morning channels 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3 are gone. I tried resetting the set (via that menu item), pulling the power plug for 5-10 minutes, several rescans, etc., but no WRC. So then on a hunch I decided to look up the mapping info for this station and found that it is channel 48.x. Sure enough, our TV set shows that it has found 48.1, 48.2, and 48.3. So now that we know where to look, WRC is perfectly viewable by using these channels numbers. But why do these suddenly refuse to map to 4.x as before? Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks!

John

Big J, If you have both UHF and VHF antennas, then I'd bet that it is spatial relationship of the two that is hampering you. It sure was for me. I ended up doing the walkie talkie thing with the wife to get positioning to where I can get not only WUSA and WRC, but also some of the Baltimore stations. You mention that you get all the other DC stations on VHF fine. Actually (and Digital, correct me if I'm an idiot) the only DC stations on VHF currently (that were on UHF before the changeover) are WUSA and WJLA. All others are UHF. VHF stations in Baltimore are WJZ and WBAL with all others being UHF. The CM4228 apparently (or so I've heard anyway) has some high VHF reception, but I didn't have any luck with it. Could be due to the fact that mine is in my attic though.
I have a UHF/VHF antenna, so I'm not sure how this applies to me-maybe I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time). I was under the impression that WRC was VHF, being channel 4 (4.1). When this was first discussed here after the change, the general consensus by folks on this forum was that I'd never be able to get WUSA with an attic antenna from Germantown. That was incorrect? Now I'm confused.
Frankly, If I could get WUSA, I would probably drop Comcast.
J

WRC mapping problem?Yes, they are having computer problems related to their PSIP encoder since yesterday. I'm sure their phone has been ringing off the hook.

Frankly, If I could get WUSA, I would probably drop Comcast.
JWhat type of antenna are you using? I haven't had any problems with WUSA even in poor signal areas 30 miles away. Only channel 50 starts to become a problem at that distance for me.

Why would you have a need for "Classic Movies" to be HD:confused:

You are kidding, right? Though for now TCM is upconverting their existing masters, as I understand it they will be getting remastered versions of the movies in high definition eventually. You do understand that anything shot on film can be rescanned to high definition, right? Those "Classic Movies" are going to be a real revelation when we get to see them!

What type of antenna are you using? I haven't had any problems with WUSA even in poor signal areas 30 miles away. Only channel 50 starts to become a problem at that distance for me.
I honestly don't know off the top of my head. Its an older one, amplified.
J

I have a UHF/VHF antenna, so I'm not sure how this applies to me-maybe I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time). I was under the impression that WRC was VHF, being channel 4 (4.1). When this was first discussed here after the change, the general consensus by folks on this forum was that I'd never be able to get WUSA with an attic antenna from Germantown. That was incorrect? Now I'm confused.
Frankly, If I could get WUSA, I would probably drop Comcast.
J

Nope - WRC is UHF on *real* channel 48. All of the VHF channels below 7 are now on UHF. Only the upper VHF band is still in business (7-13).

I honestly don't know off the top of my head. Its an older one, amplified.
J

Anyway you can take a pic?

WRC is airing The Ellen Degeneres Show for the first time in HD. (The show has been airing in HD since September 8, 2008.)

I don't even watch WRC anymore. Not since FIOS added the NBC station from Hagerstown. Since it isn't as bitstarved as the broadcast from WRC is.

Although I do still watch the weather from 4.2 on WRC from my antenna.

But since WUSA is crap now, I'm pretty much trying to switch all my watching to FIOS only and not use OTA anymore. WUSA went from my strongest station to my weakest. The same was true at several other locations in my girlfriends family. Everyone has a UHF/VHF antenna. but the signal is crap, even the one that is located in DC.

WJLA can come in but not WUSA.

I have no problem with any other VHF station.
I heard rumours that some local stations that are having issues with VHF reception (customer complaints) are considering moving back to a UHF freq. I know that I really have to make an effort now to get WBAL-DT, and with WJLA-DT being at the very low end of the VHF range, they are difficult on my UHF only antenna.

I would welcome any of them moving back to UHF, but I'm sure they'd rather stay with the VHF electrical bill.

What do you guys think about a channel moving back to UHF?

Does anyone know when Comedy Central is going to be available in Bethesda.

It's going to be awful hard for them to find enough open cahnnels.

What do you guys think about a channel moving back to UHF?Unfortunately, there aren't any UHF slots available. I think channel 45 is available in Baltimore, but that's pretty much it.