Washington, DC / Baltimore, MD - HDTV [Text View] - Page 45

djp952

11-04-09, 08:40 AM

You're far too negative in your assessments. I routinely see excellent reception at long ranges with sometimes dismal TVF predictions. It DOES take a proper antenna selection and proper height to pull off. Fringe and deep fringe reception has always required these attributes and, as someone who grew up living in such an area, I saw plenty of antennas that were both large and tall.

Certainly true! I just no longer believe that ATSC is going to be 100% reliable at those signal levels. Like DR said, it's all good until a plane flies by or there's an ice storm between you and the tower, etc. Not having a reliable source for NBC could be a very frustrating situation (like mine with CBS). I apologize.

I also noticed something else in the original post that might be more of a problem ... the 2 UHF antennas are combined into one input on the 7777. I also see that was the whole point of the question in the first place. doh.

msmckay, have you tried unhooking the Baltimore DB8 so you only have the XG91 going into the amp to see what that does for 48/50? If both antennas receive the same frequencies and you combine them without a filter of some kind, the signals can be out of phase and cancel each other out. The DB8 is very directional, but you might still be picking up 48/50 on it. The other DB8 pointed towards Hagerstown and combined in downstream of the amps could also cause the same issues.

It might be worth your time to take a look at what each antenna can "see" on it's own and what the signal levels roughly are for those channels. If you're getting a moderate amount of signal on more than one antenna, combining those antennas could cause you issues for those channels (or it could also make them better, or make one worse and one better, etc).

yekim54

11-04-09, 08:40 AM

Do you have a 4221? Anyone else out there have one?
I have a CM 4221 antenna. After they switched to VHF in June, I lost WJLA, WUSA, WBAL, and WJZ. Haven't gone up on the roof to try repositioning the antenna because I can get WJLA and WUSA via QAM on Cox Cable when needed. I'm in Dunn Loring.

I also have the CM7777 booster that allows me to get the Baltimore UHF stations.

OldHud

11-04-09, 09:32 AM

msmckay, have you tried unhooking the Baltimore DB8 so you only have the XG91 going into the amp to see what that does for 48/50? If both antennas receive the same frequencies and you combine them, the signals can be out of phase and cancel each other out... combining those antennas could cause you issues for those channels.

I concur. You're probably causing yourself trouble by trying to combine too many antennas where more than one antenna receives the same signal.

systems2000

11-04-09, 01:00 PM

ProjectSHO89

11-04-09, 01:00 PM

I have a CM 4221 antenna. After they switched to VHF in June, I lost WJLA, WUSA, WBAL, and WJZ. Haven't gone up on the roof to try repositioning the antenna because I can get WJLA and WUSA via QAM on Cox Cable when needed. I'm in Dunn Loring.

I also have the CM7777 booster that allows me to get the Baltimore UHF stations.

Try a "double re-scan" first. Many receivers, whether a TV or a CECB, do not properly handle a change in operating frequency and consequently benefit from getting "flushed" first.

Those channels are now on VHF and you may find it necessary to add more VHF capability with either an add-on or a different antenna.

msmckay

11-04-09, 01:00 PM

I concur. You're probably causing yourself trouble by trying to combine too many antennas where more than one antenna receives the same signal.

I agree. I spent many evenings "playing" in the attic with the two DB8s combined before the amp. trying to improve UHF 48 and 50 reception. Using the ideas I found on the HDTV primer site. I'd set them both pointing at DC and vary the distance between an inch and take reception data from an HDTiVo. Any improvment in one channel would be balanced by a loss in another.

My next step is to combine the two DB8s pointing at Baltimore and Hagerstown on one amp. Since there is almost 80 degrees directional differende there there will be little interference. I'll leave the XG91 on its own amp with the VHF YA1713.

All of the antenns are in the attic. The DC and Baltimore antennas point out the gable end, and the Hagerstown is pointing through shingles.

msmckay, have you tried unhooking the Baltimore DB8 so you only have the XG91 going into the amp to see what that does for 48/50? If both antennas receive the same frequencies and you combine them, the signals can be out of phase and cancel each other out... combining those antennas could cause you issues for those channels.

Yes I have and was able to pull in WRC 4 (48) very well but still could not receive WDCW 50. Of course 45 and 54 were gone too but 24 still had good signal strength.

The odd thing is that 4 and 50 were fine all summer. They dissappeared in the last three weeks. Tropo effects?

So combining the amplifier outputs will have the same phase cancellation problems as combining the antennas before the input to an amp? But it won't harm the amps? I ahve the two amps feeding separate Tivos now.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

systems2000

11-04-09, 02:04 PM

Does anyone know if WHSV (RF42) is active yet? TVFool says it is ABC. Is this correct? If so, Where's the primary station?

Interesting that they appear to be transmitting from the same tower as WVPY, who used to be RF42 analog and are still using channel 42 for their virtual channel number. TVFool says I should be getting a LOS of -92.0 from there.

gary michaels

11-04-09, 03:35 PM

DCGuy64

11-04-09, 04:00 PM

systems2000

11-04-09, 05:05 PM

Don't think you will get it. the ERP is only 1000 Watts and they share the channel with MPT 22 (42 RF) out of Annapolis. The transmitter output is only something like 38 watts. I talked to their people who indicated it would not be till later in November before they get it up. The will carry WHSV out of Harrisonburg, VA.

We'll see how it goes. I get WVPY fairly well and, since it's LOS, there might be a chance, since I get stations with a lot lower dBm levels.

aaronwt

11-04-09, 05:35 PM

djp952

11-04-09, 08:01 PM

All of the antenns are in the attic. The DC and Baltimore antennas point out the gable end, and the Hagerstown is pointing through shingles.

I don't feel so bad for my ill-advised -90dBm comment now :) Maybe this will get me off the hook!! I think everyone will agree that -90 indoors is honestly pushing the limit (I hope they do anyway! lol). Best I've ever pulled in from my attic was -115dBm, and that was with a 7 foot long Yagi specifically designed for that channel and it wasn't what I'd call "reliable". Far from it, actually :)

So combining the amplifier outputs will have the same phase cancellation problems as combining the antennas before the input to an amp? But it won't harm the amps? I ahve the two amps feeding separate Tivos now.

If you amplify both signals and then combine them, they've still both been amplified by an (assumed) idential amount, so any cancellation that was there before should be just about the same. It's possible that if you amplify one antenna and not the other, or attenuate one sufficiently prior to combination/amplification that the amplified signal will be relatively immune to the effects of the errant signal. Without something like a Spectrum Analyzer, it's pretty much trial and error.

There shouldn't be anything you can do (within reason) that will hurt the 7777 amplifiers. If a signal is too strong, it may cause the amp to go into "overload", but that doesn't cause physical damage.

edit: Depending on your desires/needs, you might want to look into filters, like the (now obsolete?) Channel Master JoinTenna. TinLee Electronics also makes them. I say 'depending' because there is likely no perfect solution, given the RF situation in our area. Ideally, all of Baltimore would be in one frequency range and D.C. in another, and a simple diplexer would suffice, but that's not the case so when you add something like a channel injector, you potentially lose something to gain something else. Personal example: I had (and still have, actually) a 42XG that was perfectly placed for 48 and 50, but didn't do so well on many other DC channels. I used a channel 49 JoinTenna to combine that with a C4 to create my D.C. feed, which then went into the amplifier. Anything the C4 "saw" on 48 or 50 was filtered out, and anything the 42XG "saw" other than 48-50 was also filtered out, so no problems with multiple signals. But ... in this specific case there would also be some attenuation on UHF 46 (WBFF), so if I was trying to use the C4 for that channel, I could have lost it or at least made it less reliable. It can get complicated quickly, but I thought I'd mention it. [side note: I still use a JoinTenna with a little C1 to add WMPT 42 into the 42XG, which is now only used for 34, 35 and 50 -- the locals FiOS doesn't carry here. Single channel injectors work really really well if the situation is appropriate]

systems2000

11-04-09, 08:54 PM

Complicated! You're not kidding. Looking to use multiple antennas, here is what Tinlee recommended for my situation.

NOTE: That doesn't include Baltimore or D.C.

djp952

11-04-09, 10:42 PM

Complicated! You're not kidding. Looking to use multiple antennas, here is what Tinlee recommended for my situation.

NOTE: That doesn't include Baltimore or D.C.

Holy cow. 7 aerials and what had to be a heck of a lot of $$ on equipment. TV just isn't worth that level of effort!

SUOrangeman

11-05-09, 12:56 PM

I realize that this is an HDTV thread, but did anyone else on Cox-Fairfax lose some analog channels yesterday? I have one TV without a cable box/DVR that lost all of the clear QAM channels and the analog channels from 60-69 (MTV, VH1, CMT, BET, Weather). I scanned again before going to sleep last night and it appears the clear QAM channels were back, but not those analog channels I mentioned. Those were still gone as of this morning.

I also had to re-scan on my HDHomeRun/Vista MC to get the clear QAM channels working again. Thankfully, I was able to still capture the Bill Cosby event on WETA.

I could tell that my HD DVR had been reset this morning (powers on to channel 01), but I didn't scroll through any active channels.

-SUO

biker19

11-05-09, 01:46 PM

^ I assume that is part of the transition to get rid of the analogs. The shuffling of the QAM chs has been going on for some time - including temp loss of signal.

Eben

11-05-09, 01:50 PM

steeler

11-05-09, 06:42 PM

Try a "double re-scan" first. Many receivers, whether a TV or a CECB, do not properly handle a change in operating frequency and consequently benefit from getting "flushed" first.

Those channels are now on VHF and you may find it necessary to add more VHF capability with either an add-on or a different antenna.

That is exactly what did the trick for me. I lost ch's 7 and 9 during the transition. I did one re-scan and both came in perfectly using my CM 4221 and a CM 7777.

steeler

11-05-09, 06:56 PM

The best signal is WJLA 7, 1-Edge @ -64.1dBm
Channel 4 is 1-Edge @ -76.6 dBm
Channel 50 is 2-Edge @-87.8 dBm
Suprisingly channels WUTB 24 and WMDO 8 come in fine even they are lower on the list.

Where do you live? Lincoln Va???

msmckay

11-06-09, 08:11 AM

Where do you live? Lincoln Va???

No, A little west of there. between Telegraph Sprincs and 690.

artwire

11-06-09, 09:35 AM

Hi, I recently moved to a high-rise apt in Arlington, and I bought a Terk HDTVi antenna. It doesn't seem to be working too well. When I ran it through my Tivo DVR, it only got three (non-digital) channels, and they were useless anyway. Plugging it directly into my TV (Samsung LCD 42") worked a lot better, however the signal seems to drop a lot, no matter where the antenna is placed, and this is true on most channels. I'm < 10 miles from the broadcast towers, so I should be fine, but I'm confined to indoor options since it's an apartment building. Any suggestions on indoor antennas? I'm considering an amplified one such as the Terk FDTV1 or FDTV2, or even the Antennas Direct DB2. Not sure what to do, I'd definitely like one that gets a strong enough signal to use the Tivo.

Do you have a Tivo that picks up digital and analog signals? I didnt think there were any "non-digital channels" to be gotten OTA these days....

I'm wondering if you need some type of input switch flipped or menu reset so that your Tivo can pick up the OTA DIGITAL signal? Sounds to me like it may not be an antenna problem...but rather a setting problem. You should be getting more than you're seeing from that location. For what it's worth, I have indoor DB2 style in the window sill which is giving me great results downtown despite various midrise buildings in the vicinity that might be blocking or bouncing the signal. The DB2 is supposed to be UHF only, but it still picks up all the locals (I think one of them recently switched over to VHF). I also have older indoor antennas that pick up MOST but not all of the stations, including Baltimore.

Have you tried redirecting it or moving it to a different location? Have you tried it in the window sill? I am very happy with my DB2, but even the older antennas pick up much more than you're describing (I bought the DB2 to try to pick up WNVC in virginia, which had a weaker signal -- it works for me in one window, but not the other). Experiment with the location a bit, just to see if you can get it to work before you buy a new antenna. If you're still not picking anything up on the digital side, it might be time to look over the (hate to say it) Tivo manual just to be sure it's set correctly for antenna (and DIGITAL) input.

PS Is the Tivo a really old model? I'm just guessing since I don't know much about tivo offerings, but if it has an analog only tuner, that might explain things. If that's the case, you can use antenna to CECB converter box to Tivo input to record your ota shows. I'm doing that with an old vcr that had analog only tuner and it works fine.

msmckay

11-06-09, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by DCGuy64
Hi, I recently moved to a high-rise apt in Arlington, and I bought a Terk HDTVi antenna.

This may seem nuts, but did you tell your TiVo where you live now? part of the setup process is to enter your new zip code. If you didn't do that your Tivo may be lost looking for the stations it used to receive.

SUOrangeman

11-06-09, 12:50 PM

I realize that this is an HDTV thread, but did anyone else on Cox-Fairfax lose some analog channels yesterday? ...

I went to the GMU basketball game last night, so I didn't delve deep into this problem. I did notice that the Weather Channel was back this morning on my non-DVR TV.

-SUO

keeper

11-06-09, 08:47 PM

I live in north-western York County in PA by the mountain. I am using an AD91 uhf I think its called with no preamp. I think I am around 58 miles away from Baltimore. Since the change I get wjz at 60% and Wbal at 69%. Pretty solid signal with some dropouts but not a lot. How much would adding a preamp CM that I already have but don't use and adding a upper vhf antenna improve my signal? Also, both of my uhf antennas are installed in the attic and will stay there. I have really good elevation at my location thus Baltimore stations come in very good. Thanks

ss_sea_ya

11-07-09, 12:25 PM

yekim54

11-07-09, 12:34 PM

Try a "double re-scan" first. Many receivers, whether a TV or a CECB, do not properly handle a change in operating frequency and consequently benefit from getting "flushed" first.

Those channels are now on VHF and you may find it necessary to add more VHF capability with either an add-on or a different antenna.

Thanks for the advice ... but ... I did a double rescan and then triple rescan and still no luck getting channel 7 (WJLA) or 9 (WUSA).

ProjectSHO89

11-07-09, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the advice ... but ... I did a double rescan and then triple rescan and still no luck getting channel 7 (WJLA) or 9 (WUSA).

Then follow the second step of my recommendation. The easy stuff has to be tried first and you didn't indicate that you may have already done so. Since my wife still hasn't gotten me a crystal ball for a gift, I have to rely on only what is reported.

Digital Rules

11-07-09, 02:16 PM

For about the last week or so, I no longer seem to get Channel 7. Did something change other than the leave's falling off the trees? Which, should have improved reception!

All other DC channels seem to come in ok.The leaves falling off the trees can certainly affect your reception. (Usually better; sometimes worse) Are you using an indoor, or outdoor antenna?

I cannot get WMAR-2 at all now unless I point the antenna towards Annapolis which is about 35 degrees off axis from Baltimore. All other Baltimore channels are fine. My guess is multipath.

lineman20109

11-07-09, 03:42 PM

yekim54

11-08-09, 12:39 PM

Then follow the second step of my recommendation. The easy stuff has to be tried first and you didn't indicate that you may have already done so.

What's the second step? You mean adding a VHF antenna?

Digital Rules

11-08-09, 02:29 PM

What's the second step? You mean adding a VHF antenna?I would personally try eliminating the 7777 first. It is "way" too much pre-amp for your location. That big tower in Merrifield has a potent UHF station which has been broadcasting since 6-12 of this year. (It slightly overloads my system in Arlington with no amp at all) The nearby FM is also not helping your situation.

Try your system without the pre-amp first & see what happens hooked to when only hooked to 1 TV. This will give a good idea of what you need to do next.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dbc273ab2f16faa

Marcus Carr

11-08-09, 11:13 PM

The season premiere of Legend of the Seeker is in SD in WNUV. Fortunately, WGN America actually managed to show it in HD. Usually it's the other way around.

systems2000

11-09-09, 09:20 AM

Why did they go from 16:9 to 4:3?

ss_sea_ya

11-09-09, 11:52 AM

Marcus Carr

11-10-09, 01:51 PM

MASN To Televise Nine Georgetown Basketball Games

Regional Sports Network's Hoyas Slate Tips Off Nov. 28

MCN Staff -- Multichannel News, 11/10/2009 1:29:51 PM

MASN will post up with nine Georgetown men's basketball game during the 2009-10 season.

The regional sports network tips off its coverage on Nov. 28 with the Hoyas hosting Lafayette at the Verizon Center live at noon.

Now in its fourth season of covering Hoyas hoops, MASN will televise inter-conference games with Mt. St. Mary's (Nov. 30) and Old Dominion (Dec. 19), as well as Big East matchups against DePaul (Jan. 3), Marquette (Jan. 6), Villanova (Jan. 17), Rutgers (Jan. 23, Feb. 14) and South Florida (Feb. 3). The Villanova contest and the first game against the Scarlet Knights will be telecast in HD.

The official cable network of George Mason University, the University of North Carolina at Wilmington and the Big South Conference, MASN features hundreds of NCAA basketball games in at least 13 different conferences each season. With over 80 Big East games, MASN is also home to the Big East Game of the Week.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/388316-MASN_To_Televise_Nine_Georgetown_Basketball_Games.php

armand1

11-10-09, 10:13 PM

The leaves falling off the trees can certainly affect your reception. (Usually better; sometimes worse) Are you using an indoor, or outdoor antenna?

I cannot get WMAR-2 at all now unless I point the antenna towards Annapolis which is about 35 degrees off axis from Baltimore. All other Baltimore channels are fine. My guess is multipath.

Digital Rules,
Which Yagi antenna are you using?
I live in NW DC and have been using a Winegard 8800 8-Bay antenna for the past 2 years with very good reception of all the VA, DC, Annapolis and Balt, MD stations with one slight rotation. Now, after the transition, I don't get Ch 11 and 13, but I still get channels 2, 45, and 54.
I am most interested in getting Channel 13 and realized that they shifted to the lower VHF band - 216 MHz after this June. What antenna would you (or anyone else in the DC area) suggest to get Baltimore Channel 13. Or can anyone suggest something I can do to my Winegard 8800 to improve channel 13 reception?
Thanks in advance.

Note: Amps don't work for me as I already have numerous multipath issues.

machpost

11-10-09, 10:23 PM

Digital Rules

11-11-09, 08:48 AM

What antenna would you (or anyone else in the DC area) suggest to get Baltimore Channel 13. Or can anyone suggest something I can do to my Winegard 8800 to improve channel 13 reception?
Thanks in advance.Are you looking for a 1 antenna solution, or do you want to augment the 8800 with a dedicated VHF-HI antenna?

kalnel

11-12-09, 04:44 PM

Jack D

11-12-09, 06:37 PM

I did a search on this thread but didn't find much discussion about the Pace boxes that CC in Montgomery Co, MD are now deploying. I have long since used Tivo boxes but my GF just had an tech visit and the guy installed a Pace RNG-110 box which seems worse than the Motos that I used to have. PQ seems sloppy on HD channels. There are very minimal setup options for the box itself. What gives? I thought the talk was that CC was going to the newer Motos which, among other things, would do pass-through of native resolution. Is it just my imagination or are these Paces POSs? thanks.

Marcus Carr

11-13-09, 12:31 PM

GAITHERSBURG, Md., Nov. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- The future of television has arrived for more than 2,100 homes and businesses in Gaithersburg as Verizon introduces FiOS TV via the company’s revolutionary all-fiber-optic network.

FiOS TV and Internet services are available this week in parts of the following communities: Brighton Highlands, Candlewood Park, Deer Park, Derwood Station, Medland Station, Needwood Estates, Oakmont Manor, Parkside Estates, Walnut Grove, Walnut Hill and West Deer Park.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/200911121728PR_NEWS_USPR_____NY10627.htm

aaronwt

11-13-09, 12:45 PM

great service but lousy billing. although they have been improving.

aaronwt

11-13-09, 12:49 PM

Slightly OT, but just curious: Does anyone know why the reruns of CSINY that 9 runs on weekend latenight are in SD, not HD? I'm guessing it's a syndication cost thing, but I don't know.

Wish they were HD -- that show is BEAUTIFUL in HD. Amazing NYC and high-tech shots.

You should have seen what CSi looked like 8 years ago when WUSA dedicated more bandwidth to the HD broadcast.

I recently watched some of my HD recordings I made back in 2001 and I was amazed at how much better those shows from 2001 look when compared to what is being shown now.

Big J

11-13-09, 12:59 PM

Quote:
GAITHERSBURG, Md., Nov. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- The future of television has arrived for more than 2,100 homes and businesses in Gaithersburg as Verizon introduces FiOS TV via the company’s revolutionary all-fiber-optic network.

FiOS TV and Internet services are available this week in parts of the following communities: Brighton Highlands, Candlewood Park, Deer Park, Derwood Station, Medland Station, Needwood Estates, Oakmont Manor, Parkside Estates, Walnut Grove, Walnut Hill and West Deer Park.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...___NY10627.htm

They sure are going awfully slow in Montgomery County. I wonder how many years it will be before they hit Germantown.
J

kalnel

11-13-09, 04:25 PM

They sure are going awfully slow in Montgomery County. I wonder how many years it will be before they hit Germantown.
J

My parents have had FIOS Internet and TV in Germantown for a while now. They put the fiber-optic lines in at least three years ago, if not longer.

systems2000

11-14-09, 05:44 PM

While using my battery powered portable AM/Stereo FM/cassette (with broken antenna) at the hot tub last night, I found that I could listen to 100.7 (the Bay) without a problem. I enjoyed the block of Black Sabbath. :)

This got me to thinking about my Deep Fringe, 2-edge, reception. I sure need to get a Spectrum Analyzer view of my situation.

Trip in VA

11-14-09, 05:50 PM

This got me to thinking about my Deep Fringe, 2-edge, reception. I sure need to get a Spectrum Analyzer view of my situation.

I have one now, but its resolution is too low to see much of value on FM. Could definitely look at TV stuff though.

- Trip

Jim Miller

11-14-09, 07:47 PM

make sure to use the interactive version of tvfool and verify the location of the icon. mine had me at a nearby location but 200ft lower in elevation as a result. what was previously 2 edge turned out to be los and rabbit ears.

jtm

armand1

11-16-09, 04:10 AM

Are you looking for a 1 antenna solution, or do you want to augment the 8800 with a dedicated VHF-HI antenna?

Maybe augment the 8800 with a dedicated VHF-HI antenna, to be able to get Channel 13, since I get almost all other channels in Baltimore, Annapolis and DC
perfectly.

Big J

11-16-09, 07:25 AM

My parents have had FIOS Internet and TV in Germantown for a while now. They put the fiber-optic lines in at least three years ago, if not longer.
Yes, I thought I saw them putting down lines a few years back, but it is still not available to all of Germantown. I've inquired, and I still cannot get it yet.
J

E55 KEV

11-16-09, 09:31 AM

antenna feed for DC WRC/NBC channel 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 has been down since 7:10am today.:confused::mad:

aaronwt

11-16-09, 11:18 AM

Whats going on with WRC 4? They are still missing the .1 subwoofer channel on my primetime recordings(I have no idea about the rest of the day)
I'm going need to start recording again from the Hagerstown channel on FIOS if this keeps up. There is a noticeable difference in bass between the two broadcasts.

spinee

11-16-09, 01:18 PM

antenna feed for DC WRC/NBC channel 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 has been down since 7:10am today.:confused::mad:

i lost mine at around 7:03. i was sure it'd be back up by noon, but here we are 6 hours later with nothing on the air.

carltonrice

11-16-09, 05:04 PM

According to the dcrtv.com blog...

More Power Problems For NBC DC, No NBC4 News At 4 & 5 - 11/16 - Earlier today, DCRTV told you that Channel 4/WRC, which also serves at NBC's Washington news bureau, suffered power problems on Sunday. Now, we're told that the problems continue on Monday. With newsroom computers and video servers down, and a non-functioning control room. Pepco attempted to switch back to main power around 3 PM and more equipment was affected, a source tells DCRTV. An audio operator even got shocked when this switch was made, we hear. NBC's MSNBC is doing live Washington shots from the lawn at WRC's 4001 Nebraska Avenue facility, using a satellite truck, instead of from Capitol Hill or the White House, we're told. Update: Channel 4 aired Ellen Degenerous at 4 PM and MSNBC's "Hardball" with Chris Matthews live from Los Angeles at 5 PM, instead of its local newscasts....

aaronwt

11-16-09, 05:26 PM

i lost mine at around 7:03. i was sure it'd be back up by noon, but here we are 6 hours later with nothing on the air.
Is the feed still available on local cable systems?

TheKrell

11-16-09, 10:14 PM

Is the feed still available on local cable systems? Don't know about that, but the broadcast is back as of 10:10PM. Showing Jay Leno.

knnirs

11-16-09, 10:42 PM

Is the feed still available on local cable systems?
WRC channel 4 was fine on Comcast.

kalnel

11-17-09, 12:06 AM

Yes, I thought I saw them putting down lines a few years back, but it is still not available to all of Germantown. I've inquired, and I still cannot get it yet.
J

That's a drag. They've had it since early 2006.

I haven't switched to FIOS yet, but I think I will eventually. It's going to be a major PITA because when Verizon strung cable in my building last year, they put the interface box on the opposite end of my apartment from where the Comcast line comes in. They're going to have to run cable all over -- through closets, across two bathrooms, into four rooms -- to hook me up. (And in an old building with concrete ceilings and floors, that means running around the edges of the floor molding.)

Big J

11-17-09, 07:52 AM

That's a drag. They've had it since early 2006.

I haven't switched to FIOS yet, but I think I will eventually. It's going to be a major PITA because when Verizon strung cable in my building last year, they put the interface box on the opposite end of my apartment from where the Comcast line comes in. They're going to have to run cable all over -- through closets, across two bathrooms, into four rooms -- to hook me up. (And in an old building with concrete ceilings and floors, that means running around the edges of the floor molding.)

I'm probably not going to bother. If they are going to give my area of Germantown such low priority, then they clearly don't want my business. They are going to have to put an interface box on my house and run extra wires while I thank them for the inconvenience. I don't think so.
J

ethos_unum

11-17-09, 04:24 PM

I'm in the chantilly area. Anyone having issues getting WJLA(channel 7)? I had 80%+ signal quality (according to HDhomerun) and now it drops to waivering between 0 & 60 in sig qual. Coincidently, i did start getting WUSA(chan 9) at 80+ instead now where it used to be waivering below 50. Both 7 and 9 have 95% signal strength according to the same hdhome run meter.

Just wanted to see if anyone else was having similar results or not.

systems2000

11-17-09, 07:51 PM

I saw last night where iON Life is now doing full run, widescreen movies, during the evening hours (I watched Caddyshack - Magnum Force was after).

Anyone else notice what appears to be a new change?

TheKrell

11-17-09, 08:25 PM

Both 7 and 9 have 95% signal strength according to the same hdhome run meter. Interesting. I didn't know the HDHomeRun had both meters. Makes me want to run right out and buy one. To answer the question, I'm having no trouble with WJLA this evening. I'm reading 6 bars (the max) on my ArcSoft TotalMedia player. What it's actually reading, nobody but ArcSoft knows. Of course this reading is after going through two cheap amps in series. :eek:

I saw last night where ION Life is now doing full run, widescreen movies, during the evening hours Well, sure enough. Something with Sean Connery right now. I think it's Just Cause. Only trouble is that it's being broadcast as a letterboxed 4:3. WETA's PBS-kids subchannel does that a lot. Other than saving a bit of bandwidth encoding the black bands, I don't see any justification for this stupidity. Why not use one of the SD 16:9 modes?

systems2000

11-17-09, 08:42 PM

According to my AOL TV listings, Just Cause is on now and Batman Forever is after.

What's worse is when PBS does 16:9 within 4:3 (non-changable apsect) with 4:3 content. :eek::mad:

ethos_unum

11-17-09, 09:19 PM

Interesting. I didn't know the HDHomeRun had both meters. Makes me want to run right out and buy one. To answer the question, I'm having no trouble with WJLA this evening. I'm reading 6 bars (the max) on my ArcSoft TotalMedia player. What it's actually reading, nobody but ArcSoft knows. Of course this reading is after going through two cheap amps in series. :eek:

The hdhomerun config gui although simple does what it needs to do. Shows the signal strength, sig qual, and sym qual or at least represents them as a percentage. I've been satisfied thus far with it. When i got it, microcenter had it the cheapest (and in store so no shipping) compared to any other place i saw online. Looks like that still might be true.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4962/hdhomerungui.png
Screencap of hdhomerun config screen if you're curious.

Now after patience, relocating, and aiming looks like i got it just right, at least for now to get 7 now with enough quality to watch. Thanks for the confirmation TheKrell

TheKrell

11-17-09, 09:20 PM

What's worse is when PBS does 16:9 within 4:3 (non-changable apsect) with 4:3 content. :eek::mad: Oh man that makes my head hurt and I'm not even looking at it! Let' see. What I was describing is a 16:9 program letterboxed and broadcast as 4:3. This puts a frame around the whole thing (on a widescreen TV). But you say it's 4:3 content... So, it's horizontally stretched as well as being framed all the way around? Lovely. :eek:

systems2000

11-17-09, 09:40 PM

NO. What I'm saying is that PBS will show 4:3 content on a 4:3 screen with bars all the way around (postage stamp). I don't have a 16:9 television, so I can't imagine how that must look.

Watching the last five min. of Just Cause (with the flashing red lights) and the opening credits of Batman Forever (zooming text) makes me glad I don't own a flat screen. :)

TheKrell

11-17-09, 09:41 PM

And while I'm griping about stupid digital conversion settings, here's another that I see a lot on WETA and WPXW, and elsewhere. These stations are converting the whole darn 525 line analog broadcast, VBI and all, into 480 digital video lines. This results in a flashing line (for the closed captioning) being visible along the top of the picture on digital TVs. This is so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

systems2000

11-17-09, 10:25 PM

Tomorrow night, iON Life is showing "The Last Boyscout" and "The Enforcer."
Thursday night, it will be "On Deadly Ground" and "The Rookie."
Friday night, is "Out for Justice" and "Heat."

Looks like alternate viewings of movies that have run on the main channel.

systems2000

11-17-09, 10:29 PM

I don't see that much any more, but I don't get WETA or WPXW (I do get WWPX).

shammib

11-20-09, 01:33 PM

Yes, I am actually, and it's frustrating as heck! I want my superbowl!

Question: does anyone know what channel WUSA-9 (HD) is on Comcast digital cable rebroadcast? I need an alternate for the OTA broadcast, and it's not coming through on physical channel 9-1.

Using the MyHD MDP-130. Help appreciated!

Thanks much,
Adam

Hi

I have the same problem with this channel. Did you find a solution? I would appreciate it if you could share it with me.

Thanks
Sam

Marcus Carr

11-20-09, 02:19 PM

Verizon in the City of Baltimore [?]

As part of Verizon Maryland's recent government relations outreach, company representatives held an informational meeting with Baltimore City Council members in October 2009 to discuss topics such as Verizon's presence in the city, its flagship FiOS product, and video services.

Currently, Verizon is focused on meeting our FiOS deployment commitments in communities where we have video franchises. However, company officials were encouraged to learn that there is enthusiastic support among Council members and their constituents for the company pursuing a video franchise in the City.

http://www22.verizon.com/about/community/md/broadband/baltimore.html

Albireo

11-20-09, 03:32 PM

Hello all,

I've been reading this thread and found that other viewers are having trouble receiving WITF / WTTG due to the channel conflict on channel 36. I actually sent correspondence to the FCC (see below) about this channel conflict. In my mind it is completely unacceptable and I encourage others to do the same. I live south of Gettysburg, just 5 miles from the Mason Dixon line. Channel 5 used to be so easy to obtain pre-transition, now it is virtually impossible, even with separate high-gain VHF/UHF antennas at 50 ft with a CM7777. I can't imagine why the FCC would allow two stations less than 100 miles apart to share the same television broadcasting bandwidth! With all of the empty channels it's a disgrace to the taxpayer to be paying for services that are not making the best use of our dollars, and a dissapointment to the consumer to be missing out on a once-enjoyed channel due to unprofessional planning.

___________________
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:06 PM
To: 'FCCInfo@fcc.gov'
Cc: 'tvinfo@fcc.gov'
Subject: RE: CIMS00002285184 - Digital OTA Television - Channel Conflict

Good afternoon,

I greatly appreciate the return message and information. The links you provided to the service contour maps are very helpful as well to take a closer look at the signal overlap that is occurring between WITF and WTTG (both using the television frequency spectrum associated with channel 36). Thank you for providing them.

Based on the number of available unused channels in the region, it seems to be unacceptable to have channel overlap in the service contour maps if there is remaining bandwidth that could be used to eliminate such overlap, particularly with two popular and widely viewed television stations such as WITF (PBS) and WTTG (FOX). Had the stations in question been independent networks or low power stations, the channel conflict would not be as big of a problem.

I would like to think that there was a high-level bandwidth optimization study conducted pre-transition to ensure that any channel overlap was minimized to the greatest extent possible by making use of all the available bandwidth for television broadcasting (Channels 7 thru 51). However, based on the handful of unused channels in the region (which through my brief studies appears to be the channels 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 31, 32, 37, 43, and 49) it appears that such an optimization study was not thoroughly conducted. This particular bandwidth conflict between WITF and WTTG could have been easily prevented with some additional foresight and can be remedied through a well-thought-out channel reassignment for WITF or WTTG to one of the above thirteen channels that are determined not to conflict with other neighboring television markets, assuming that such a channel exists.

Looking at the overlap in the service contour maps, it's fair to say that this particular channel conflict is affecting thousands of people near the Mason-Dixon border, many of whom commute to the DC metro area and are accustomed to the DC news, weather, and traffic updates provided by stations like WTTG. Washington DC stations are part of the reception area of the Mason-Dixon border region (Northern Maryland / South-Central PA) and this channel conflict unnecessarily reduces the available stations that can be received.

On behalf of those viewers in the Mason-Dixon region, I kindly request that the FCC take a closer look at this particular channel conflict to determine if there is a way to improve and/or eliminate it. I believe that a field study in the Mason-Dixon region would reveal the true scope of the situation and the number of viewers affected and would warrant the actions necessary to alleviate the issue.

I thank you for your time and for your efforts.

Very Respectfully,

-----Original Message-----

From: FCCInfo@fcc.gov [mailto:FCCInfo@fcc.gov]

Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:38 AM

Subject: CIMS00002285184 - Digital OTA Television - Channel Conflict

You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry to the FCC.

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

In the license application process, there are very strict engineering studies required before a station can be licensed and begin broadcasting. The studies are designed to prevent interference. In those rare instances when a problem might occur, the station(s) experiencing the problem can often work a cooperative solution.

Both WITF and WTTG have selected channel 36 from their DTV table of allotments in Rule Section 73.622 and have conducted engineering studies to eliminate objectionable interference to one another as much as possible. WITF increased its power from 50 kW to 124 kW post-transition. WTTG has maintained its power at 1000 kW post transition. Their post transition contours only overlap in Northern Maryland near the Mason-Dixon Line. You may view WITF service contour at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1299653.html. WTTG's service contour may be viewed at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT401000.html.

The FCC Media Bureau has created contact points at the Commission, accessible via toll-free telephone numbers, by fax, or over the Internet, dedicated to providing information to members of the public regarding how they can become involved in the Commission’s processes. Should you have questions about how do so, including inquiries about our complaint or petitioning procedures or the filing and status of the license renewal, modification or assignment or transfer application for a particular station, you may contact one of our Broadcast Information Specialists, by calling, by facsimile, or by sending an e-mail, as noted below:

· If your question relates to a radio station:

Toll-Free: (866) 267-7202 (Voice) or (877) 479-1433 (TTY)

Fax: (202) 418-1411

E-Mail: radioinfo@fcc.gov

· If your question relates to a television station:

Toll-Free: (866) 918-5777 (Voice) or (866) 787-6222 (TTY)

Fax: (202) 418-2827

E-Mail: tvinfo@fcc.gov

Thank you again for your inquiry.

Best regards,

TSR36

Representative Number : TSR36

____________________________________________

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:01 AM
To: 'fccinfo@fcc.gov'
Subject: Digital OTA Television - Channel Conflict

Good morning,

I am writing in regard to a Digital OTA Television channel assignment conflict in the Mid-Atlantic region. I live in south-central Pennsylvania and have noticed that there are two television stations less than 100 miles apart that are sharing the same channel bandwidth and causing reception issues. From my location, I am able to easily receive Harrisburg/York, Baltimore, Washington DC, and Hagerstown Digital OTA television stations. There is only one channel that is being used simultaneously in two of these markets and as a result is creating conflicts with reception.

In the Harrisburg, PA market, WITF-DT (Virtual Channel 33) is transmitting on Channel 36.

In the Washington, DC market, WTTG-DT (Virtual Channel 5) is transmitting on Channel 36.

As seen on the below TV station chart for my location, there are many empty OTA channels that could have been selected (indicated by gaps in the “real channels” data which is in blue text). For example, none of the bandwidth associated with the channels between 16 and 20 (inclusive) and channels 31-32 is being used in the region. Prior to the digital changeover, both WITF and WTTG were easily received from my location (as they were channels 33 for WITF and 5 for WTTG). Now that both stations are transmitting on channel 36, practically speaking, it is electromagnetically impossible to receive the weaker of the two channels from my location (WTTG), even with the highest gain antennas on the market today. Furthermore, if I am not mistaken I believe WITF has and/or will be increasing its signal strength in the near future which will expand the number of consumers like me that will be affected by this channel conflict.

I ask that you route this request to the appropriate department within the FCC which provides guidance on how television channel assignments are made. I believe this particular circumstance represents an unnecessary channel conflict that could be remedied by using a small portion of the available remaining TV broadcasting bandwidth and reassigning one of the stations to a new channel.

As a ham radio operator, I am keenly interested in ensuring that we are all being good stewards of the bandwidth provided to us. As a consumer and taxpayer, it is both my pleasure and responsibility to provide this information to you and your professional staff at the FCC.

Thank you for your time.

Very Respectfully,

Dave Loudin

11-20-09, 04:23 PM

You should take a few moments with the alternate channel search feature at rabbitears.info. None of the channels you list are available options for WTTG, but 49 and 16 meet allocation spacing requirements for WITF. Don't forget that 37 is not available for anyone! Since you are outside of WTTG's service area, I believe that you would not have any standing to try and force a channel change on WITF to solve your WTTG reception issues.

Marcus Carr

11-20-09, 04:55 PM

Finally got a postcard today about DTAs for Comcast in Baltimore City. Effective 12/23, Digital Starter and above will include a free digital converter or DTA on the primary outlet and up to two free additional DTAs. No mention of analog reclamation yet.

Albireo

11-20-09, 06:37 PM

wmcbrine

11-21-09, 05:58 AM

NO. What I'm saying is that PBS will show 4:3 content on a 4:3 screen with bars all the way around (postage stamp). I don't have a 16:9 television, so I can't imagine how that must look.Start with a 4:3 picture. Add sidebars to make it 16:9. Now, add letterbox bars to make it 4:3 again. Finally, add sidebars again to make it 16:9. :confused::rolleyes::mad: Yeah, I've seen that on PBS... I'm not sure if it was MPT or WETA.

Digital Rules

11-21-09, 09:25 AM

Anyone notice WUTB-24 harder to get now? Fringe stations are the same or slightly better with the leaves gone, but WUTB is right on the digital edge now?????

Thanks!!

rviele

11-21-09, 09:50 PM

Anyone notice WUTB-24 harder to get now? Fringe stations are the same or slightly better with the leaves gone, but WUTB is right on the digital edge now?????

Thanks!!
wutb comes in fine for me and i'm in harford county in the woods

ss_sea_ya

11-22-09, 01:49 AM

why thought that having two channel 36's less than 100 miles apart was a good idea.

I'm 14 miles south of WTTG and have issues with poor reception...

Dave Loudin

11-23-09, 08:11 AM

Thanks for the information, Dave. I agree with what you're saying but would like an explaination of who and/or why thought that having two channel 36's less than 100 miles apart was a good idea. This is clearly not enough separation between two major channels and should never have occurred in the first place.

Per the current allocation rules, these allocations would fail. However, you have to consider how the allocations came into existence in the first place. Remember that the FCC tried to overlay a second television service that would replicate the first without creating interference. Obviously, that could not happen, so compromises had to be made, especially here in the congested northeast (where even FM allocations fail.) The protection standards for these transition allotments were less strict.

Now, after they invested a lot of money in erecting a second antenna and a new transmitter plant, stations were asked to choose what channel they wanted post-transition. The choices were a) analog, b) digital, or c) punt (defer to the next round.) This process was repeated at least three times, as some stations were stuck in bad spots and elected to wait to see what allotments might become available. WTTG wisely elected to keep their UHF assignment. WITF did not have good choices, and, without a lot of money to spend (my guess), went with their DTV channel.

The channel selection process did not produce an optimized solution. However, I believe it was the most fair process available, as it maximized service while minimizing additional capital expense. A fully optimized solution would have likely forced many stations to build a third facility. So, in my opinion, the FCC chose to sacrifice technical quality for an executable process. They chose wisely.

Could there have been additional testing before moving forward? Of course. However, with all the variables involved, there was no way to be even 75% confident that everything would work as predicted. Sometimes, a system has to be implemented in order to fully reveal all the behaviors. Fortunately, the current spectrum plan is not fixed in concrete, and stations are petitioning for facility changes to deal with service issues. In WITF's case, their "maximization" request is predicted to cause less than 1% additional interference to WTTG than their current 50kW max-DA. The OET-69 process does account for terrain effects, so allocations that appear to fail via allocation contour plots still pass muster.

Kelly From KOMO

11-23-09, 08:57 AM

Per the current allocation rules, these allocations would fail. However, you have to consider how the allocations came into existence in the first place. Remember that the FCC tried to overlay a second television service that would replicate the first without creating interference. Obviously, that could not happen, so compromises had to be made, especially here in the congested northeast (where even FM allocations fail.) The protection standards for these transition allotments were less strict.

Now, after they invested a lot of money in erecting a second antenna and a new transmitter plant, stations were asked to choose what channel they wanted post-transition. The choices were a) analog, b) digital, or c) punt (defer to the next round.) This process was repeated at least three times, as some stations were stuck in bad spots and elected to wait to see what allotments might become available. WTTG wisely elected to keep their UHF assignment. WITF did not have good choices, and, without a lot of money to spend (my guess), went with their DTV channel.

The channel selection process did not produce an optimized solution. However, I believe it was the most fair process available, as it maximized service while minimizing additional capital expense. A fully optimized solution would have likely forced many stations to build a third facility. So, in my opinion, the FCC chose to sacrifice technical quality for an executable process. They chose wisely.

Could there have been additional testing before moving forward? Of course. However, with all the variables involved, there was no way to be even 75% confident that everything would work as predicted. Sometimes, a system has to be implemented in order to fully reveal all the behaviors. Fortunately, the current spectrum plan is not fixed in concrete, and stations are petitioning for facility changes to deal with service issues. In WITF's case, their "maximization" request is predicted to cause less than 1% additional interference to WTTG than their current 50kW max-DA. The OET-69 process does account for terrain effects, so allocations that appear to fail via allocation contour plots still pass muster.

I think you're right on the money Dave.

The largest thing that the FCC put as much stock into as they probably should have, especially for VHF-DTV, was the amount of consumers using "rabbit ear" style or attic mounted antennas. The model used for allocation including the Longley Rice calculations, still assumed (as was in the 1940's) the original TV reception model of X-gain receive antenna mounted outside at least 30' AGL. Until too late in the game, the commission really didn't adequately educate consumers that an outdoor antenna was REALLY important to receive OTA DTV reliably.

Another misstep in many markets was that stations involved, nor the FCC, adequately communicated to viewers the plans for some stations return back to a VHF channel. In many cases that left viewers whom had already been watching DTV stations on UHF with a much higher field strength, confused as to what happenned.

Albireo

11-23-09, 10:14 AM

Once again, I thank you for the excellent response Dave. Your technical expertise shines through and your message explains why things are the way they are. Unfortunately for me, I tend to be the person who believes there is only one way to conduct an engineering project, the technically sound way. You bring up some great points about cost, execution, practicality, etc. that are undoubtedly reasons why unnecessary channel conflicts are occurring in the field. As always, hindsight is 20/20 and we all know that the digital transition could have been orchestrated better.

Since I also believe that no corrective action will take place (e.g. WITF moving their broadcast to another viable channel), I am thinking about ways that I can tweak my rig to receive WTTG successfully. I'd appreciate any constructive feedback on this.

Below are the signal details for both WITF and WTTG from my location obtained through TVfool.com, assuming a 50-ft antenna height. I am currently using a Winegard YA-1713 (VHF-HI) and Channel Master 3023 (UHF Yagi) mounted on the same mast, pointing in the same direction, and being amplified by a CM7777.

What I find amazing is that while WTTG is only 10 miles more distant from my location than WITF (55.6 miles vs. 44.5 miles), WITF's signal is many times stronger, despite WTTG's strong broadcasting power in comparison to WITF. I can only ponder that it has to do with the surrounding terrain and relative height Above Sea Level of the broadcast antenna at WITF in comparison to WTTG.

WITF-DT: NM 27.2 dB, Pwr -63.7 dB, Line of Sight, 44.5 miles, 23 degrees
WTTG-DT: NM 6.6 dB, Pwr -84.3 dB, 2EDGE, 55.6 miles, 174 degrees

The orientation of the signals means that there is a 151 degree angle between WITF and WTTG from my location, which means that I am likely running into an issue with receiving WITF on the back-end of my antenna, among other things.

The biggest aspect of WTTG that I miss is their 10 o'clock news, which is the best one around in my opinion. I receive all the other DC DTV channels with ease from my location (including virtual channels 4, 5, 7, 9, 14, 20, 26, 32, 50, and 66).

I am thinking about setting up another UHF antenna on the ground and placing a conductive screen behind it to see if I can block out WITF and receive WTTG. I also considered locating a Channel Master 4251, but have come to find out that the F/B ratio is not so good on those as the reflector radials are spaced too far apart to block out rear signals effectively.

I am also pondering whether it would be better to mount an antenna lower to eliminate the line of sight to WITF. I'm thinking that the higher I go with an antenna, the more it benefits WITF to a greater extent than WTTG (which is not line of sight). I'm also thinking about mounting an antenna below the roof line pointing to WTTG as the siding is aluminum and would be on the back-side of the antenna and may help to block out WITF.

My location is roughly 3 miles north of the Mason-Dixon line. Through a friend, I know that WTTG can be successfully received in Taneytown, Maryland, which is roughly 7 miles south of my location. The $64,000 question is where exactly is the “cutoff” zone for WTTG and am I within spitting distance to find a workable solution to receive the signal. It seems that no matter what, WITF and WTTG cancel each other out when I point my antenna to the Washington DC area as the signal strength meter barely moves. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Dave Loudin

11-23-09, 11:50 AM

Thanks for the kind words. Alberio, I still have a little trouble with "unnecessary" in describing channel conflicts. Taken in context, these conflicts were unavoidable. In WITF's case right now, they apparently (have to couch this, since I can't see all the data) have a couple of choices for a new channel they could petition for if they wanted. I'm sure they have consulted with a professional to size up their options, and maximizing their current facility appears to be the best way forward for them.

I don't know if you've explored using the maps feature of TVFool. I have to go that route to get a better prediction as the approximation of my street address is much closer to line-of-sight to DC than I really have. A quick tutorial:

1) at the interactive TV Coverage Browser page, enter as much of your address as you like and click "map this"
2) drag the receive location marker to where it needs to be. Depending on the imagery available, you can get very precise with this.
3) adjust antenna height. Every time you click away from the box, the signal predictions will update. You can soon find out how far you are from line-of-sight for a particular path.
4) choosing a radio button by a station will plot that station's coverage on a map. You can get a good idea of what is shadowing you that way.

2-edge paths are pretty tough catches, generally. Perhaps a single-channel yagi for WTTG might help. Good luck!

Trip in VA

11-23-09, 12:01 PM

This particular situation could have been prevented, most likely, but would have required a lot of extra expense that stations did not want to take on. For example, WITF probably could have moved to 16, though I've never tested that with interference analysis software. I would have to imagine WITF could not afford to change channels.

WTTG has nowhere else to go, so it'd be left to WITF to resolve.

- Trip

Dave Loudin

11-23-09, 12:30 PM

The largest thing that the FCC put as much stock into as they probably should have, especially for VHF-DTV, was the amount of consumers using "rabbit ear" style or attic mounted antennas. The model used for allocation including the Longley Rice calculations, still assumed (as was in the 1940's) the original TV reception model of X-gain receive antenna mounted outside at least 30' AGL. Until too late in the game, the commission really didn't adequately educate consumers that an outdoor antenna was REALLY important to receive OTA DTV reliably.

Agreed. However, I think we can cut the FCC some slack here for a couple of reasons. First, there have been a lot of moving parts with regards to trying to adequately assess how well ATSC digital television propagates. Changing some of the basic assuptions about the reciever adds complexity and communicating to industry, let alone the general public, was already challenging. Second, the FCC was looking to replicate service areas (the Grade B contour) that were predicted using the original method. Like needed to be compared to like, or else complexity rears its head, again. The interpretation of this data was a real problem.

The "VHF nightmares" , as Trip likes to call them, fell out of this process. The equivalent field strength needed for ATSC reception similar to Grade B NTSC plus the propagation characteristics of VHF led to the really low ERPs. Tightening of interference criteria further compromised many stations that chose their analog VHF channels, as there were pre-transition VHFs that stuck around to box them in. The full impact of these allotments wasn't appreciated until there were a lot of observations (or, non-observations) available.

I've noticed that one of the methods for fixing VHF problems is for several stations to increase power together. That keeps the interference-free reception area between them roughly the same (see WPXI Philadelphia, WRGB Schenectady, and a station in Connecticut). A similar tactic was used in the AM band years ago for the local channels (1230, 1240, etc.) The default facility was 1000 watts day, 250 watts night. The drop in nighttime power was a sop, at best, in cutting down on the skywave interference level. A confederation of operators finally convinced the FCC that the rise in manmade noise countered any benefit in reduced interference, so the requirement to cut power at night was withdrawn.

Another misstep in many markets was that stations involved, nor the FCC, adequately communicated to viewers the plans for some stations return back to a VHF channel. In many cases that left viewers whom had already been watching DTV stations on UHF with a much higher field strength, confused as to what happenned.

AMEN!

armand1

11-23-09, 03:30 PM

danboot

11-23-09, 03:45 PM

Does anyone know what HD DVR box Cox is currently issuing? I am moving to Fairfax VA and just curious to what box the are using now.

Thanks
Dan

dmorack

11-23-09, 05:45 PM

Does anyone know what HD DVR box Cox is currently issuing? I am moving to Fairfax VA and just curious to what box the are using now.

Cox in Fairfax uses the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR running SARA.

-Doug

SUOrangeman

11-23-09, 08:30 PM

Per my latest Cox-Fairfax bill, we'll be getting the following channels in the second half of December:

777 msnbcHD
763 BET HD
774 ABC Family HD
775 Disney HD
787 HBO2 HD
788 More Max HD
789 TMC HD

-SUO

Digital Rules

11-23-09, 08:35 PM

Can anyone in DC or VA get Channel 13 (WJZ) in Baltimore using an Over The Air antenna, if so, what type of antenna are you using? I live in 20815 and can't seem to get it. I get channels 2 and 45 easily, but not 13. What antenna(s) are you presently using? I've used the Winegard YA-1713 both here in Arlington, & Annandale with great results. It picks up channels 7, 8, 9, 11, 12 & 13.

afiggatt

11-23-09, 11:25 PM

Can anyone in DC or VA get Channel 13 (WJZ) in Baltimore using an Over The Air antenna, if so, what type of antenna are you using? I live in 20815 and can't seem to get it. I get channels 2 and 45 easily, but not 13.
The exact azimuth you are at with respect to WJZ 13's broadcast location makes a big difference because of the directional pattern of WJZ's antenna. Your zip code puts you at around an azimuth of 235 degrees for WJZ which in turn results in a broadcast signal of around 11 kW give or take on VHF 13 in your direction. At 33 miles, depending on the specifics of your location, you should be able to pull in WJZ with a rooftop upper VHF antenna, but no guarantees. I'm at a even worse azimuth for WJZ 's pattern here in Sterling and get a signal but can't get a reliable lock.

The directional pattern for WJZ can be seen at the 28.8 kW entry for WJZ-DT at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=25455.

djp952

11-23-09, 11:33 PM

I'm sorry (not really) for the shameless and merciless OT plug, but I just have to share. If you tune into WBFF Fox 45 on 12/2 and watch the 10pm newscast, my lovely wife "Lieutenant Commander Laura Back" is going to be wishing me and all of Baltimore a holiday greeting from Landstuhl, Gemany.

Thank you very much WBFF for participating in this program, thank you very much Laura for taking care of our injured servicemen and servicewomen over there, and thank you very much avsforum gang for giving me something to do while she's been gone for so long.

Again, apologizes for being so off-topic, but I thought you guys/gals might get a kick out of seeing this. If not, I really am honestly sorry for wasting your time.

Digital Rules

11-24-09, 11:08 AM

My location is roughly 3 miles north of the Mason-Dixon line. Through a friend, I know that WTTG can be successfully received in Taneytown, Maryland, which is roughly 7 miles south of my location. The $64,000 question is where exactly is the “cutoff” zone for WTTG and am I within spitting distance to find a workable solution to receive the signal. It seems that no matter what, WITF and WTTG cancel each other out when I point my antenna to the Washington DC area as the signal strength meter barely moves. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!You've certainly got a tough situation on your hands. Without going to a elaborate or multiple antenna set-up, I would personally try the highest F/B ratio antenna available first. AFAIK, that is the 91-XG. I would try the different scenarios you mentioned with placement & heights to find the best possible sweet spot for WTTG. You may even want to try this with only 1 set, & no amplification for testing purposes to make sure the amp doesn't aid WITF in "overriding" WTTG.

I find the 91-XG very good at rejecting signals from the back. I regularly see RF 25 & 47 from Richmond with just the slightest bit of tropo. Both of those frequencies are also used in DC only 5 miles behind the antenna.

Albireo

11-24-09, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, Digital Rules! The ideas are greatly appreciated and may just do the trick to pull in enough WTTG signal for a lock. I've been looking at the 91-XG after reading about it on AVS yesterday but was on the fence about whether its F/B ratio would be enough to overcome the difference in signal strength between WITF and WTTG at my location. Your post has given me hope that a workable solution exists and I really like your "out-of-the-box" creative ideas on this.

My fear is that with all of the newly proposed WGAL translators, my area may run into additional channel conflicts if the translators are approved. So, this could potentially turn into a new trend that fringe zones lose channels if the FCC approves translators in areas in which the use of a translator is not bonefied and warranted. As an example, WGAL is looking to put a translator on channel 27 in Carlisle, PA, which is the same channel that WETA-DT transmits on out of DC. Worse yet, WGAL is looking to put a translator on 31 just west of Gettysburg, PA, which is the same channel that WETA-TV is looking to put a translator on just northeast of Leesburg, VA. I know my eyes would be spinning if I worked at the FCC and all of these translator applications were coming in! I can only hope that they follow the "KIS" philosophy - Keep it Simple - and only approve translator applications that are 100% legitimate and do not cause loss of service on other stations for viewers. WGAL most certainly does not need 6 translators as they are requesting, imagine if every station felt they were entitled to 6 translators (or even one)! :)

Trip in VA

11-24-09, 12:26 PM

WGAL wouldn't need to seek 6 translators except that there's no channel on which for them to put a 1000 kW UHF signal. Even channel 43, the clearest channel at that location, fails badly even at low power levels.

- Trip

Albireo

11-24-09, 01:01 PM

Please forgive me for not knowing the answer, but why is it that WGAL desires a UHF channel? I may have missed some news or posts on this thread and that's why I'm asking. WHTM-DT is also VHF-HI in the region, do they also desire to move to UHF? Consider me a dummy when it comes to this as I really have no knowledge of this topic.

From my current and previous locations, all of the VHF-HI channels seem to come in as strong, if not more reliably than the UHF channels in the Harrisburg, Baltimore, and Washington DC areas (7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13). I'm having a hard time picturing why a station would want to move from lower frequencies that generally propagate further to higher frequencies based on my limited knowledge and amateur radio days. I'm hoping it doesn't have to do with people being unwilling to purchase VHF antennas as antennas are about the best bang-for-the-buck purchase that one can make in my estimation. I was amazed at how inexpensive my latest antennas came out to be when I ordered them a month ago.

ss_sea_ya

11-24-09, 03:38 PM

After post transitions, Ch 7,9 went back to VHF-HI, and many people around the beltway suddenly lost those channels, even with VHF antennas. So much so that I Ch 7 asked for a TX power increase. I am sure there was a discussion about this somewhere above, but also here:

http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hdtv-info-reception/100203-wash-dc-wjla-7-request-boost-transmit-power.html

mdviewer25

11-25-09, 07:41 AM

kalnel

11-25-09, 10:58 AM

You guys will appreciate this. I have a friend in Germantown who got an HD PVR from Comcast over the weekend, only to find that the picture was breaking up on History HD, HGTV, Food, and Versus. So he called Comcast and arranged for a tech to come by yesterday to check the signal. (The signal has always been a little sketchy--OD flakes out regularly.)

Comcast tech comes out, checks the signal, declares it sufficient, then says, "I see you're using an RCA modem. That often causes HD channels to break up. You'll need to rent a modem from us..."

Now, here's the REALLY funny part: He has FIOS internet.

biker19

11-25-09, 11:06 AM

^ LOL. I guess he doesn't have FIOS TV yet in the area?

knnirs

11-25-09, 11:17 AM

Has anyone else noticed fewer QAM channels when doing a scan for Comcast PG? I used to pick up a total of at least 440 channels. The last two I did only gave me 287. I also lost the HD versions of 7, 26, and 66.

Comcast QAM signals change. At the present time, in Beltsville with Basic Comcast I find ABC 720P at 123-701, Weta 720P at 123-704. I don't use 66 so I don't know where to find it. I do seem to have more QAM channels now than a month ago, although most of them are SD copies of normal channels.

kalnel

11-25-09, 08:11 PM

^ LOL. I guess he doesn't have FIOS TV yet in the area?

I don't know, but he's checking into it!

mkfs

11-25-09, 08:17 PM

Currently, Verizon is focused on meeting our FiOS deployment commitments in communities where we have video franchises. However, company officials were encouraged to learn that there is enthusiastic support among Council members and their constituents for the company pursuing a video franchise in the City.

i.e.: We're only interested in you if we were able to strongarm your city/county into the deal we want. Meanwhile, we're letting the regulated copper phone plant fall into the sewer.

mkfs

11-25-09, 08:38 PM

Has WMPT raised power/altered its pattern? I note that it's now viable if not robust in Wheaton with 25 yo RG58, and an equally-old roof antenna pointed 90d away... I suspect it's the case the leaves are mostly gone but...

rkolsen

11-25-09, 08:48 PM

In Baltimore County Comcast has added QVC HD, TWC HD, HLN HD, MSNBC HD , CNBC HD + , Fox Business HD, Comedy Central HD, Spike HD, Bravo HD, E! HD, Lifetime HD, WE HD, Travel HD, TruTV HD, ESPN News HD, ESPN U HD, and CBS COllege Sports HD.

rkolsen

11-26-09, 12:27 AM

mdviewer25

11-26-09, 07:47 PM

Comcast QAM signals change. At the present time, in Beltsville with Basic Comcast I find ABC 720P at 123-701, Weta 720P at 123-704. I don't use 66 so I don't know where to find it. I do seem to have more QAM channels now than a month ago, although most of them are SD copies of normal channels.

I had a lot more last week. I don't know what Comcast did but now I'm only picking up even numbered QAM channels. They also remap the locals to their OTA spots so 4.1 - 4.3, 9.1 and 9.2 are there but 7.1 - 7.3 has disappeared along 26.1 - 26.4 since they were on digital 123.

hsweiss

11-27-09, 12:27 PM

Anyone notice WUTB-24 harder to get now? Fringe stations are the same or slightly better with the leaves gone, but WUTB is right on the digital edge now?????

Thanks!!

I'm southeast of WUTB in Anne Arundel County. I could sometimes get a lock on them over the summer - some nights good, some nights bad. After the leaves dropped, they dropped off entirely. Repeated scans don't see WUTB at all. If anything I would have expected to gain signal with the leaves dropping. I sent them email asking what was going on - but no response.

On the other hand, I am having lots more problems locking WJZ-13 with the loss of leaves. After their transition to their directional antennas I lost them entirely but not because of lack of signal - in fact just the opposite. They were over driving me. But it turned out that simply moving my converter box around dropped the signal enough to get a decent lock. But now with the loss of leaves, nothing helps. I've even tried using an in-line attenuator - didn't do anything.

When I get a change I might try re-pointing my antenna further toward the West. Maybe I'll drive off axis a bit from WJZ and start picking up WUTB again.

Digital Rules

11-29-09, 12:06 AM

I'm southeast of WUTB in Anne Arundel County. I could sometimes get a lock on them over the summer - some nights good, some nights bad. After the leaves dropped, they dropped off entirely.I'm starting to wonder if the stronger signal from WMPT-22 is partly to blame.:confused: WUTB-24 came in fine here last winter when WMPT-22 was operating at a lower power level.

mkfs

11-29-09, 12:08 AM

While doing a rescan, my DTX9950 suddenly showed 48-3,4,5 They are duplicates of WRC, but I wonder why these now appear on the RF vice virtual channels?

systems2000

11-29-09, 07:37 AM

chamb

11-29-09, 12:26 PM

WRC is actually transmitting on RF 48. The WRC channel 4 on your CECB is the result of the stupid transition decision to continue letting stations be identified by their previous RF channel #. This is why most members identify stations by their "Call-Letters" instead.

My Opinion - Stations should now be required to use their ACTUAL channel number and "Get Over" using the old channel numbering. Many people are not sharp enough to understand the need for a VHF or UHF antenna when all of the stations are using false channel numbers. If a station is actually on 48, then they need to identify as 48. No exceptions. This was a political decision to keep people happy, but it sure was a bad bad decision.
It is way past time for the FCC to wise up and give every station a few months to convert all identification over to the real channel number. WRC and all others can use the real channel numbers. WRC is actually better off being on channel 48 than on channel 4. They should just start identifying as WRC - 48 and forget about 4. Get it done.

systems2000

11-29-09, 12:50 PM

Now that the leaves are pretty much gone between me and the transmitters, I've found that my reception has drastically changed and I've been able to identify my most reliable stations for year round viewing.

WMAR|38 (2)|Baltimore|ABC|122.6°
WJLA|7 (7)|D.C.|ABC|152.1°
WTAJ|32 (10)|Altoona|CBS|321.5°
WLYH|23 (15)|Harrisburg|CW|355° (peaked)
WDCA|35 (20)|D.C.|MyN|152.1°
W08EE-D (WNPB)|8 (24)|Martinsburg|WV PBS|215.5°
WHAG|26 (25)|Hagerstown|NBC|226.8°
WWPB|44 (31)|Hagerstown|MD PBS|226.8°
WVPY|21 (42)|Front Royal|VA PBS|208.9°
WPMT|47 (43)|York|FOX|78.1°
WGCB|30 (49)|Red Lion|Ind|86.4°
WNUV|40 (54)|Baltimore|CW|122.5°
WWPX|12 (60)|Martinsburg|iON|215.5°
WJAL|39 (68)|Chambersburg|Ind|279.2°

I'm still waiting for W38AN (WITF - PA PBS) 33 and W51CY (WDCW (LD) - CW) 51 to come on-line.

Digital Rules

11-29-09, 01:03 PM

Now that the leaves are pretty much gone between me and the transmitters, I've found that my reception has drastically changed and I've been able to identify my most reliable stations for year round viewing.Good to hear!! Do you see an improvement on "all " stations? I thought you were getting WUTB at one point. Any new catches?

systems2000

11-29-09, 01:24 PM

WTTG, WUSA, WJZ, & WUTB are pretty much unwatchable, while WBFF has completely disappeared. I've stopped trying for duplicate stations beyond those that I get or have mentioned.

I'm now setting my sites on peaking and fine tuning the most reliable stations and will see how that affects the others. Anyone have a Spectrum Analyzer that can go down to below -110dBm that they want to lend out?

Digital Rules

11-29-09, 03:41 PM

I'm starting to wonder if the stronger signal from WMPT-22 is partly to blame.:confused: WUTB-24 came in fine here last winter when WMPT-22 was operating at a lower power level.It's such an awesome day I couldn't resist tweaking antenna height to hopefully improve WUTB. The much weaker WBOC-16 & WMPB-67 are now better than ever, but WUTB is no better. (Ended up going about 10 inches lower) I'm now thinking WUTB's directional antenna is sending much less power to areas south than TV FOOL has predicted. I have changed my conclusion about WMPT-22 being strong enough here to cause adjacent channel issues with WUTB-24.

mkfs

11-29-09, 04:06 PM

WRC is actually transmitting on RF 48.

Errr.... I know where WRC transmits. My question was: is WRC doing something different so their data stream is decoded both at '4'; and again at 48? The 48 presentation lacked the PSIP data. I thought there was one set of PSIP for all virtual channels on a carrier, but now I'm not sure. It's the first time I've seen this, and it's only true for WRC, not any other stations.

aaronwt

11-29-09, 05:46 PM

I know WRC still wasn't broadcasting the subwoofer channel with the last show I watched from them.

Trip in VA

11-29-09, 06:30 PM

Anyone have a Spectrum Analyzer that can go down to below -110dBm that they want to lend out?

I won't lend it out, but I will be coming up your way again at the end of December. We could try once again to meet up since it didn't work out last year.

I've got a Sencore SLM 1456CM. It won't do measurements in dBm, but I've found it to be reasonably sensitive.

- Trip

systems2000

11-29-09, 07:47 PM

AAHH!! The joy of receiving multiple PBS's from different States. WVPY is showing Frank Sinatra, WWPB is showing André Rieu, while W08EE-D is showing the Celtic Women. I can't wait for W38AN (WITF) and wish I could still get WETA.

dewster1977

11-30-09, 12:11 AM

Now that the leaves are pretty much gone between me and the transmitters, I've found that my reception has drastically changed and I've been able to identify my most reliable stations for year round viewing.

I've given up untill spring. Still most of my stations are out of market.
ABC|WHTM, WJLA and WMAR
NBC|WHAG and WBAL
CBS|WTAJ
PBS|WWPB
ION|WWPX

Still no FOX

systems2000

11-30-09, 11:11 AM

Deleted.

mkfs

11-30-09, 02:36 PM

A friend in 20616 has a rooftop antenna, nothing exotic. It's WAY below the tree line. Cell coverage is miserable.

a) He gets Baltimore WBAL, WMAR, WJZ solidly, but no trace of WMPT.

b) He has no trouble on WJLA, & WUSA, but can barely see WRC.

c) He gets both sets of 30. (1-5 & 6-10)

I could not explain it.

Hardtimes

11-30-09, 02:57 PM

...I'm not down in a hole but Edgewood is only 100' above sea level (according to wunderground; where I'm at is probably closer to 60) plus my 20' of antenna elevation probably doesn't help. Also I mistakenly said 1713 when I meant I used a Y5-7-13. I'm thinking I probably should have gotten the 1713. Anyway, I tried all kinds of scenarios - hooked in to the 7777 with my 4228, FM trap in/out, bypassed the amp, had a wire running directly to my computer's tuner in the bedroom with a monitor on the roof for remote tuning. Nothing worked better than my original setup and now my neighbors think I'm nuts. :D

I finally got some time to install my 1713 to try to get Ch 7 & 9. Got it from SolidSignal, open box special, so I figured why not. Anyway, after much tweaking and experimenting, I'm now able to FINALLY get a pretty reliable Ch 7 @ ~ 65% signal (16-18 db) and Ch. 9 about 3 db lower :D I still have a few more tweaks to try but hate to mess with a good thing and am happy to have my dual market ABC & CBS back! Thanks again to Robert Forsyth from WJLA for trying to help their viewers.

jgantert

11-30-09, 06:35 PM

mkfs

11-30-09, 07:35 PM

Heads up - new RTN 7 programming starts today.

http://www.myretrotv.com/prog_schedules/WJLA.pdf

Be nicer if RTN every got their head out of their serial port, and resumed reporting episode data to Times Mirror/Zap2It... It stopped when the coup took place, and we've seen nothing since.

Too bad I Spy isn't on at a better time; I still enjoy it...

mkfs

11-30-09, 08:11 PM

Tonight "Chan 4" has no working EPG.

I still see RF48-3,4,5 & they never did.....

Related?

jgantert

11-30-09, 11:20 PM

Be nicer if RTN every got their head out of their serial port, and resumed reporting episode data to Times Mirror/Zap2It... It stopped when the coup took place, and we've seen nothing since.

Too bad I Spy isn't on at a better time; I still enjoy it...

I know what you mean about the episode info. I still haven't seen two episodes of Night Gallery (Silent Snow Secret Snow and Hell's Bells). Guess I'll have to watch them some other way.

I've never actually watched I Spy, so I'm looking forward to it. :)

mkfs

11-30-09, 11:53 PM

I've never actually watched I Spy, so I'm looking forward to it.

Their tradecraft stinks, but the repartee between Cosby and Culp makes it all worthwhile.

It was not just the first series with a black lead, it was also the first with no studio. It was filmed all around the world.

Big J

12-01-09, 08:24 AM

Heads up - new RTN 7 programming starts today.

http://www.myretrotv.com/prog_schedules/WJLA.pdf

Peter Gunn
I Spy
Daniel Boone
The Rifleman
Cisco Kid

Gone are Incredible Hulk, Hitchcock Presents, and Night Gallery (and others).

Have they started lobbing the top and bottom off the picture? All of the sudden, I'm only getting 1/2 of their channel symbol in the corner. I don't watch it that often, only an occasional movie, but I just noticed this.
On an unrelated note, what am I getting on channel 1? I haven't identified it yet. I did a rescan, and it popped up.
J

machpost

12-01-09, 09:18 AM

Heads up - new RTN 7 programming starts today.

http://www.myretrotv.com/prog_schedules/WJLA.pdf

Peter Gunn
I Spy
Daniel Boone
The Rifleman
Cisco Kid

Gone are Incredible Hulk, Hitchcock Presents, and Night Gallery (and others).

I wish RCN would carry this channel. For whatever reason, they seem to be the only cable provider in this area that doesn't carry it.

mdviewer25

12-01-09, 09:50 AM

Have they started lobbing the top and bottom off the picture? All of the sudden, I'm only getting 1/2 of their channel symbol in the corner. I don't watch it that often, only an occasional movie, but I just noticed this.
On an unrelated note, what am I getting on channel 1? I haven't identified it yet. I did a rescan, and it popped up.
J

Last time I checked, channel 1 was the SD channel for WHUT 32. I still have no idea why it's mapped to channel 1. On another note, I was able to tune into some of the QAM channels that were skipped during my last scan. However, I am still missing a lot. My scans used to get at least 440 analog and digital channels now it only gets 285.

machpost

12-01-09, 10:27 AM

Last time I checked, channel 1 was the SD channel for WHUT 32.

Can someone please tell me how such a glaring mistake can sit unchanged for months? Do they even have engineers at WHUT?

Kelly From KOMO

12-01-09, 10:35 AM

Are you receiving WHUT Over The Air or cable? If OTA then chances are the station PSIP generator is running on it's default settings, or the station may be running static PSIP via their HDTV encoder, possibly because their PSIP generator failed. Either way, I doubt the discrepancy is because they're not paying attention.

If watching via cable, then chances are the cable company doesn't have the PSIP tables set up correctly.

Gerald C

12-01-09, 11:18 AM

Can someone please tell me how such a glaring mistake can sit unchanged for months? Do they even have engineers at WHUT?

There are even more problems with WHUT's transmission. My Dish 622/722 DVR's will receive their live broadcast OK, but exhibits all sorts of problems recording/buffering it. Something is bad wrong with their PSIP and/or other ATSC transmission protocols.

hsweiss

12-01-09, 12:12 PM

I'm southeast of WUTB in Anne Arundel County. I could sometimes get a lock on them over the summer - some nights good, some nights bad. After the leaves dropped, they dropped off entirely. Repeated scans don't see WUTB at all. If anything I would have expected to gain signal with the leaves dropping. I sent them email asking what was going on - but no response.

On the other hand, I am having lots more problems locking WJZ-13 with the loss of leaves. After their transition to their directional antennas I lost them entirely but not because of lack of signal - in fact just the opposite. They were over driving me. But it turned out that simply moving my converter box around dropped the signal enough to get a decent lock. But now with the loss of leaves, nothing helps. I've even tried using an in-line attenuator - didn't do anything.

When I get a change I might try re-pointing my antenna further toward the West. Maybe I'll drive off axis a bit from WJZ and start picking up WUTB again.

Here's what I got in response to my email to WUTB:

WUTB hasn't made any recent changes.
We are still working on the plans to build out the DTV transmitter slightly increasing our power and reach, but nothing has happened yet with that.
Thanks for staying in touch although it's a frustrating e-mail you are sending since we don't want to loose you as a viewer.

So I wonder what's going on?

Potatoehead

12-01-09, 09:46 PM

So I wonder what's going on?

I am further south than you in Calvert County and have not noticed any change in the signal. I used to have problems getting this channel, until I realized that I had to point the antenna directly at this station and let all of the other channels be a bit less than optimal. Otherwise receiving WUTB was impossible. By the way my antenna is just mounted in my attic.

jgantert

12-01-09, 11:40 PM

There are even more problems with WHUT's transmission. My Dish 622/722 DVR's will receive their live broadcast OK, but exhibits all sorts of problems recording/buffering it. Something is bad wrong with their PSIP and/or other ATSC transmission protocols.
Same problem with my Dynex TV. I tried emailing them, and they just put me on a spam list. So now I just don't watch that station, and tune into one of the several other PBS stations I receive. No sweat off my back, just one more email address to add to my spam list. :rolleyes:

Apostate

12-02-09, 07:33 PM

AntAltMike

12-02-09, 07:37 PM

Heads up - new RTN 7 programming starts today.

http://www.myretrotv.com/prog_schedules/WJLA.pdf

Peter Gunn
I Spy
Daniel Boone
The Rifleman
Cisco Kid

Gone are Incredible Hulk, Hitchcock Presents, and Night Gallery (and others).

Cisco Kid is LAME. No way can that last. "Hey Cisco!" "Hey Pancho!" "HaHaHaHaHa". Was there any more to it than that?

I can't help but notice how much Daniel Boone looks like Davey Cockett.

I hope they bring back Mannix. It had a great run on TV Land.

By the way, WB Network had a retro-Saturday of its own a few years ago, running their really campy, early 1960s detective series, including Surf Side Six, Seventy Seven Sunset Strip and Hawaiian Eye. You can't imagine how ridiculous the dialog was...or maybe you can.

Trivia question (no fair Googling): Who was the host of the pilot episode of Wheel of Fortune? Hint: he had previously starred in one of the old, WB detective series

systems2000

12-02-09, 09:21 PM

Is it me or is there becoming an epidemic on stations PSIP systems coming up empty? I'm always finding the EPG on my Zinwell having many stations with no entries. It used to be only one or two and only once in awhile.

TheKrell

12-02-09, 09:39 PM

What happened to Mhz channels, 30.1 - 30.5? One day they were there, next they were gone. I observe no problem here, and I tried all 5 subchannels.

AntAltMike

12-02-09, 10:05 PM

What happened to Mhz channels, 30.1 - 30.5? One day they were there, next they were gone. Their web site is still up so I am assuming they are still in business. Did they cut down their transmission power or something?
Are you aware that they are broadcast from a different transmitter at a different location than are 30.6 to 30.10? 30.1 to 30.5 are broadcast on UHF channel 24 from Falls Church, whereas channels 30.6 to 30.10 are broadcast on channel 30 from someplace called Goldvein that is somewhere near Manassas

Digital Rules

12-02-09, 11:18 PM

Good point Mike!! WNVT-30 broadcasts from high atop Independent Hill 6 miles south of downtown Manassas. I don't think they ever did broadcast from Goldvein, which is a good 25 miles south of the actual transmitter.

Dave Loudin

12-03-09, 06:15 AM

What was ch. 53 analog was originally a Fredericksburg allocation. In order to have the transmitter as close to DC as possible, a petition to move the community of license to Goldvein (a grocery store and a few houses on Rt. 17 in southern Fauquier) was approved, allowing the transmitter site to be up in Prince William County along Rt. 234 at Independence Hill.

There also may be a studio location wrinkle to this - there are studio-to-transmitter-site or studio-to-COL distance limits that used to be more strict. WNVC/WNVT have always had the same studio location in Merrifield.

MrHifi

12-03-09, 08:22 AM

What happened to Mhz channels, 30.1 - 30.5? One day they were there, next they were gone. Their web site is still up so I am assuming they are still in business. Did they cut down their transmission power or something?

I am in Davidsonville, MD, 8 miles west of Annapolis. 30.1 is almost impossible to get any more. Up until 2 weeks ago it was strong via my rooftop antenna.

hsweiss

12-03-09, 09:22 AM

I am further south than you in Calvert County and have not noticed any change in the signal. I used to have problems getting this channel, until I realized that I had to point the antenna directly at this station and let all of the other channels be a bit less than optimal. Otherwise receiving WUTB was impossible. By the way my antenna is just mounted in my attic.

My antenna is also mounted in the attic. But its not dead-on for WUTB whose tower is in Catonsville - slightly to the west of the rest of the Baltimore stations who are located on TV hill which is essentially dead-on true north from my location. I know that when I was first playing around with DTV converter boxes and antennas I could not get WUTB with my antenna indoors on the 2nd floor but they did come in after I raised it another story in the attic. So its always been touch-and-go from here. The weird thing is if they haven't changed anything, and I haven't changed anything, and if the leaves came down which should only enhance the signal, why would they drop off? When I get the time & energy to climb up into the attic I will try to re-point slightly to the west to see if it makes a difference.

systems2000

12-03-09, 09:54 AM

I've lost WUTB here to, but I attributed it to tropo propogation interference being more enhanced (stations reaching further) by the loss of folige.

systems2000

12-03-09, 12:07 PM

I finally replaced my Trunkline 20-TDA25 25dB UHF/VHF/FM distribution amplifier with a Channel Master 3414 4-way 8dB distribution amplifier.

This allowed me to eliminate a 2-way splitter and 6db attenuator on the input to the Trunkline amplifier (at the closet). I now have the ability for a future set and to run a coax to my neighbor.

With this new configuration, I now get WUSA, WBAL, WJZ, and WUTB fairly reliably and WTTG is showing signs of returning. :D

I forgot to order an LPF-700 and a couple of HLSJ's. :(

I'll work on positioning until I get those.

Apostate

12-03-09, 07:15 PM

I am in Davidsonville, MD, 8 miles west of Annapolis. 30.1 is almost impossible to get any more. Up until 2 weeks ago it was strong via my rooftop antenna.

Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind.:)

I was getting the channels fine and then one day *poof* no signals at all.

I wonder what happened. :confused:

djp952

12-03-09, 08:30 PM

I've lost WUTB here to, but I attributed it to tropo propogation interference being more enhanced (stations reaching further) by the loss of folige.

I tested WUTB out tonight for you guys OTA, and unfortunately I don't see any difference from earlier in the year. I'm distinctly on the "bad" side of their radiation pattern, but I'm also only 5 miles away. Sorry I can't be of assistance. I tried.

AntAltMike

12-04-09, 05:30 AM

Has anyone had any audio probelms with WJLA? I have half a dozen Channel Master CM-7000 CECBs in multiple dwelling unit headends that I leave set on channel 7, and each has been losing the audio probably an average of once a week for the last few months, and it stays off until someone powers the box off and on, but there is nothing wrong with these units, as I have swapped them with other units in the same headends but the problem stays with channel 7.

I just swapped them all out for iNet SSR1921 boxes, so I'll be keeping an eye on them and my fingers crossed. Since the CM-700 is now a discontinued product, I probably won't otherwise try to' "get to the bottom" of this, since I will need the half dozen CM-7000s I just pulled out as spares for future replacements.

hsweiss

12-04-09, 09:00 AM

I tested WUTB out tonight for you guys OTA, and unfortunately I don't see any difference from earlier in the year. I'm distinctly on the "bad" side of their radiation pattern, but I'm also only 5 miles away. Sorry I can't be of assistance. I tried.

Sorry - I'm not sure what you mean - you still have them or you've also lost them and can't reacquire them even at 5 miles from their tower?

Apostate

12-04-09, 09:38 AM

Are you aware that they are broadcast from a different transmitter at a different location than are 30.6 to 30.10? 30.1 to 30.5 are broadcast on UHF channel 24 from Falls Church, whereas channels 30.6 to 30.10 are broadcast on channel 30 from someplace called Goldvein that is somewhere near Manassas

I am up near College Park, MD. I never got 30.6 to 30.10 but I have gotten 30.1 to 30.5 without any problems. I was just trying to figure out what happened. I hope Mhz boost their power up again.

systems2000

12-04-09, 09:48 AM

I spent some time last night sweeping the sky to see how my system improvements have affected my reception. Sweeping from 000° to 360°, I didn't find any signals from channel 2 to 6 and channel 10. I also verified that I don't see any signals from WGAL 8.

I also swept through the channels I do acquire and peaked each one to acquire the following (by true RF):
STATION|SIGNAL|QUALITY|DIRECTION|PATH|DISTANCE
WJLA|90%|70%|150°|2-Edge|71 miles
W08EE-D|89%|83%|188°|LOS|34 miles
WUSA|85%|53%|150°|2-Edge|71 miles
WBAL|50%|22%|117°|2-Edge|65.5 miles
WWPX|90%|100%|216°|LOS|34 miles
WJZ|50%|56%|117°|2-Edge|65.5 miles
WVPY|90%|77%|188°|LOS|71 miles (?)
WLYH|70%|27%|000°|Bounce|71 miles
WHAG|90%|100%|across a wide range|LOS|20 miles
WGCB|82%|68%|83°|2-Edge|58.5 miles
WTAJ|85%|100%|330°|2-Edge|63.5 miles
WPXW|50%|6%|?|2-Edge|71 miles
WDCA|50%|21%|150°|2-Edge|70 miles
WMAR|20%|81%|117°|2-Edge|65.5 miles
WJAL|90%|100%|across a wide range|LOS|15 miles
WNUV|20%|35%|117°|2-Edge|65.5 miles
WUTB|20%|21%|133°|2-Edge|63 miles
WWPB|90%|100%|across a wide range|LOS|21 miles
WPMT|65%|53%|86°|2-Edge|58.5 miles

hsweiss

12-04-09, 10:22 AM

I spent some time last night sweeping the sky to see how my system improvements have affected my reception. Sweeping from 000° to 360°, I didn't find any signals from channel 2 to 6 and channel 10. I also verified that I don't see any signals from WGAL 8.

I also swept through the channels I do acquire and peaked each one to acquire the following (by true RF):
STATION|SIGNAL|QUALITY|DIRECTION
WJLA|90%|70%|150°
W08EE-D|89%|83%|188°
WUSA|85%|53%|150°
WBAL|50%|22%|117°
WWPX|90%|100%|216°
WJZ|50%|56%|117°
WVPY|90%|77%|188°
WLYH|70%|27%|000°
WHAG|90%|100%|across a wide range
WGCB|82%|68%|83°
WTAJ|85%|100%|330°
WPXW|50%|6%|?
WDCA|50%|21%|150°
WMAR|20%|81%|117°
WJAL|90%|100%|across a wide range
WNUV|20%|35%|117°
WUTB|20%|21%|133°
WWPB|90%|100%|across a wide range
WPMT|65%|53%|86°

Just curious - what's the definition of "signal" vs. "quality"? Is signal meant to be signal strength where 100% would be best? In most cases in your chart, higher signal indicates higher quality - which is exactly what I would have expected. But I'm curious about WMAR where you show signal=20% but quality=81%. That one surprises me.

howie14

12-04-09, 10:32 AM

I am in Davidsonville, MD, 8 miles west of Annapolis. 30.1 is almost impossible to get any more. Up until 2 weeks ago it was strong via my rooftop antenna.

I'm in Eldersburg MD, 13 miles southeast of Westminster, and when the digital conversion occurred I was getting passable locks on 30.1-.5, 26.1-.4 and 4.1-.3. They all take a great deal of tweaking to pull in now. Some days WRC doesn't come in at all.

I'm also locking in WGAL 8.1-.2 with a weak but lockable signal even with the antenna turned toward DC. That too is a change from back in the summer.

Steve_AA_Co_MD

12-04-09, 12:36 PM

Driving North on I-97 this morning, I noticed that the old WMPT-22 tower is being disassembled. Looks like tricky work since the old tower is fairly close to the new tower with guy wires crisscrossing each other.

systems2000

12-04-09, 06:01 PM

Just curious - what's the definition of "signal" vs. "quality"?

These numbers were from my Zinwell ZAT-970A (027) converter. It has a dual meter (like APEX DT502's, Sunkey SK-801ATSC's, and others). They measure Signal Strength and the Quality/Integrity of the Data present.

Is signal meant to be signal strength where 100% would be best?

Yes.

In most cases in your chart, higher signal indicates higher quality - which is exactly what I would have expected. But I'm curious about WMAR where you show signal=20% but quality=81%. That one surprises me.

I don't have an answer for that and it's still what I get. I can say that it was more in line with the others before the change.

mdviewer25

12-04-09, 08:49 PM

Does anyone else have Comcast QAM channels remapped to different numbers? My Samsung T451 gets an SD version of WJLA at 84-1. On my Toshiba TV, it remaps that channel to 7-31 which means I don't see the other QAM channels on 84 including the Comcast Network, Comcast Sportsnet, ESPN2, and TBS.

ACW112983

12-05-09, 07:14 AM

I'm glad I don't have to worry about all this 9.1 stuff or QAM, 'cause I don't get it at all.

Anyone hear anything more about new Comcast HD channels for Northern VA?

Jim Miller

12-05-09, 08:42 AM

Not in NoVa but here in Baltimore County (Comcast) I was able to find some 8xx replicas of 2xx and added them last weekend. No Tivo guide info showed up for several days. But last night I noticed Tivo had guide info for those channels even though there still has been no "Channel Lineup has Changed" message for them yet. So the changes must still be in progress here.

jtm

Marcus Carr

12-05-09, 03:55 PM

Univision and TeleFutura go HD on Monday. The schedule so far:

December 7, 2009, 12:01 AM (local time):
New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Atlanta

December 14, 2009, 12:01 AM (local time):

Austin, Chicago, Dallas, Fresno, Houston, Raleigh, Sacramento, San Antonio, San Francisco, Bakersfield

December 21, 2009, 12:01 AM (local time):
Miami, Phoenix, Douglas, Flagstaff, Tucson, Salt Lake City

http://www.univision.com/content/content.jhtml?cid=2194649

Trip in VA

12-05-09, 05:14 PM

It looks like only Univision's O&O stations are going (except WQHS in Cleveland), and TeleFutura affiliates only in markets where Univision also owns the Univision affiliate.

WFDC is owned by Entravision, thus it is not included on the list. I have to wonder if Entravision will add HD at some point.

- Trip

mjw703

12-05-09, 08:12 PM

I'm glad I don't have to worry about all this 9.1 stuff or QAM, 'cause I don't get it at all.

Anyone hear anything more about new Comcast HD channels for Northern VA?

I've read on the Comcast forums on dslreports that Comcast is finally going to start testing Cisco DTA's soon (for those of us on Scientific Atlanta systems, which is what Arlington is.) After they get deployed, then we can expect to see new HD channels. DCRTV.com reports that this won't happen until the middle of 2010.

imref

12-05-09, 08:42 PM

machpost

12-05-09, 08:57 PM

Rob Dibble sent a tweet out yesterday saying that all Nationals and Orioles game would be available via HD next season, so I guess that means MASN 2 will be available in HD. Anyone hear which systems might carry it?

This is great news. I assume that RCN will carry MASN2 HD, as they've carried all MASN programming since day one, and they have unused channels in the HD tier next to both MASN HD and CSN HD, presumably reserved for both channels' respective future HD overflow feeds.

Marcus Carr

12-05-09, 11:34 PM

Makes sense, with most Comcast systems making room for more HD recently.

albertso

12-06-09, 10:01 PM

Hi Folks,

COMCAST MOCO did the first part of the "all digital" switch today (or last night). No notice, at least recently. Hope all of us have our boxes ready...

Jim Miller

12-06-09, 10:12 PM

Nearly 100 HD channels now shown on Comcast Balto County on 8xx channels. Still haven't received notice on Tivo of their existence.

jtm

Big J

12-07-09, 08:04 AM

Hi Folks,

COMCAST MOCO did the first part of the "all digital" switch today (or last night). No notice, at least recently. Hope all of us have our boxes ready...

I believe they did it a few days earlier. As a side note, I lost all digital channels, except, locals, for a few hours yesterday afternoon.
J

Marcus Carr

12-07-09, 08:56 AM

MASN to Launch 2nd HD Channel For Nats, O's

TVPredictions.com

Washington, D.C. (December 7, 2009) -- MASN, the regional sports channel that broadcasts Washington Nationals and Baltimore Oriole games, is launching a second High-Definition channel, according to Sports Business Journal.

The publication writes that the move will enable the sports network to broadcast every Oriole and Nats game in high-def in the 2010 season.

In the 2009 season, MASN was only able to offer 100 Oriole and 100 Nats games in HD because it had just one high-def channel.

Sports Business Journal writes that DIRECTV and Comcast are among the TV providers expected to carry the second MASN HD channel.

The publication added that the second HD channel will be launched in April.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/masn120709.htm

Marcus Carr

12-07-09, 09:27 AM

MASN to launch second HD channel

Washington Business Journal - by John Ourand Contributing Writer

The Mid-Atlantic Sports Network is launching a second high-definition television channel in April, ensuring that every Washington Nationals and Baltimore Orioles game will be available in high definition next season.

Most of the Baltimore and Washington area cable and satellite providers have agreed to carry MASN2 HD as part of affiliate deals that allow for “overflow channels.” MASN uses a second channel when the Nationals and Orioles are playing at the same time.

Unlike its standard-definition version, MASN2 HD will be a dedicated stand-alone channel that telecasts pre- and postgame shows and select games.

On Comcast’s system in Washington, for example, the standard-definition MASN2 shares a channel with the standard-definition C-SPAN2.

Comcast and Cox are the dominant cable operators in the Baltimore-Washington area. DirecTV also is expected to carry the new channel.

This marks a change from 2005, when Comcast and MASN were in the midst of a bitter carriage dispute that kept the regional sports network off of the area’s biggest cable system during the Nationals’ inaugural season.

The move to 100 percent HD continues a trend that every regional sports network has been pursuing, even though television executives can’t point to increased ratings or ad revenue for HD.

In 2008, MASN telecast 40 Orioles games and 40 Nationals games in HD. Last season, it telecast 105 games each.

“This is the next logical step for the network,” MASN spokesman Todd Webster said.

Other RSNs also are planning to go all HD with their telecasts this year, too. Last year, four of the six Comcast SportsNets with baseball telecast all of the games in HD. This year, all six are expected to go 100 percent HD.

And last year, about half of the Fox Sports Nets with baseball telecast all games in HD. This year, most of them will be all HD.

MASN plans to split Orioles and Nationals games evenly between MASN HD and MASN2 HD, rather than assigning a team for each network.

“Everything needs to be divided equally with both teams,” Webster said. “Putting one team on a second channel would not be fully equitable.”

http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2009/12/07/daily3.html

Marcus Carr

12-07-09, 09:41 AM

MASN To Launch MASN2 HD for 2010

By MASN Staff on December 7, 2009 9:14 AM

MASN, the television home of the Washington Nationals and the Baltimore Orioles, will launch a high definition overflow channel beginning in the spring of 2010, the network announced today. The launch of MASN2 HD will allow the network to televise every Orioles and Nationals game live and in high-def throughout the season. The majority of MASN's cable and satellite affiliates will be prepared to carry the channel for the 2010 MLB campaign throughout the network's seven-state television territory.

Beginning in April, the network will televise every game and every play -- more than 320 Major League Baseball games in all -- in crystal-clear high definition. Nationals and Orioles game replays will still appear on the network's flagship high definition channel, MASN HD. O's Xtra and Nats Xtra, the network's exclusive pregame and postgame shows, will be televised in HD live and on location from the ballpark during every home game for both teams.

MASN's high definition telecasts of every Nationals and Orioles game next season builds upon the network's efforts in 2009, when the network produced and transmitted a high definition game every day of the season. Two hundred and ten of these productions were broadcast live on MASN's flagship HD channel. The 2010 launch of MASN2 HD, which will televise approximately 130 live games, positions MASN as the leading regional sports network in the United States with 320 Major League Baseball high definition telecasts.

"In only its fourth season, MASN continues to set the standard for regional sports programming, with national-caliber broadcast talent, state of the art in-game technology, and the most in-depth coverage of the Nationals and Orioles," said MASN spokesman Todd Webster. "MASN is proud to be the first RSN in the region to offer every one of its professional games in high definition. And with every play and every game in HD in 2010, fans will be closer to the action than ever before."

MASN HD will continue to occupy a permanent channel position in the HD lineup of its cable, satellite and fiber optic carriers throughout the MASN's seven-state television territory. MASN2 HD will also occupy a dedicated channel position, and will be active during the pregame, game, and postgame show for approximately 130 dates when both the Nationals and Orioles are playing simultaneously.

"We're very excited about the launch of MASN2 HD because this is great for our fans, who can now enjoy every single one of our games in crisp high definition" said Nationals president Stan Kasten. "This is even more good news for the Nationals heading into the 2010 season."

"I continue to be impressed by MASN's commitment to providing our fans with the most technologically advanced and professionally-produced telecasts in all of Major League Baseball," said Orioles president of Baseball Operations, Andy MacPhail. "They continue to push the envelope and set the standard for regional networks."

With four channels in operation for the 2010 season, the easiest way to locate MASN, MASN2, MASN HD and MASN2 HD, will be for viewers to check their on-screen channel guides using their television remote. A full listing of cable, satellite and fiber optic channel positions will be available at MASNsports.com.

With Every Play and Every Game in crystal clear high definition, pre and post game shows before and after every game, state of the art "Game Day" on-location sets at Nationals Park and Oriole Park at Camden Yards, the best broadcast talent in baseball, and 24/7 online coverage at MASNsports.com, MASN is the home of the Baltimore Orioles and Washington Nationals.

http://masnsports.com/2009/12/masn-to-launch-masn2-hd-for-20.html