Cliff's G90 thread got me to thinking about how some people change PJs like underwear. Not at all dissin' Cliff or anyone else (hey, whatever makes you happy), I'm just curious how long AVS CRT forum members tend to keep their PJs. This is not for digital guys as we already know buying a new PJ is an annual event. ;)

Me, I've had my G70 for over 3 years with no plans to change in the near or distant future.

Well, I was happy with my 1208/2 and would have been still using it, but I found Zenith Pro 1200x locally that I could not pass on, so picked that up 15 months ago.

Dave

Bought my xg85 a little over 5 years ago

Now that I think about it more, I've had my PJ almost 4 years. I voted wrong my own poll!

Someone that's had their PJ 3 years vote 4 years to correct my error. ;)

G90. Bought it July 2006 and have put less than 100 hours on it (work and family keep getting in the way of what's really important :D).

For the poll, I voted "6 months or less", but I think you should add one more category: more than 6 months, but less than one year. Just my $0.02.


James

I can't change the options. They're locked.

This will be an interesting poll, but it won't serve the purpose I intended. It will just show how long members have owned their current PJ. It will not indicate how often they change PJs, if at all. I'll do another poll in a couple of days.

I've had my G70 for a little over a year (I think.)

I started with a Sony 1271 in 2000 then went through a Air coupled Marquee 8500 phase and bought my G70 near X-Mass 2005 if I remember correctly.

Of course,.. I intend to keep it forever, if I live that long. :)

I'm currently feeding it lots of Blu Ray's via PS3. :)

-Brian

9500LC for about 9 months, so I put down a year. It's been rock solid, switched from 720p to 1080p about 6 months ago. Did a decent setup on it about 3 months ago and improved the focus about 20% (subjectively speaking).

It's the rest of the room that needs finishing..:)

Frankly as picky as I can be about pictures, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I was forced to downgrade to a 7" EM set or even a Sony 1031. I simply don't have the time to put a lot of hours in the HT room, maybe 100 hours a year, and 1/2 of those projector hours I'm asleep...;)

Three years for me.

Art

Let's see... I started out on the forum with an NEC 6PG xtra, from there I went to a Marquee 9500 a little over a year later, and have had it since then.

I now have an 8500 Ultra on the ceiling in the theater. But also own a Dwin HD700, Marquee 8500, Marquee 8000. Barco 909 (just got it), and still have the Marquee 9500 and NEC 6PG Xtra.


And in twenty years, I'll be adding a digital to the list..:D

Had my first Barco Data for a little over a year, of which it was actually dialed in and working the last 6 months or so. Will be 3 years at Easter for my 980 Ultra - until I find another deal like yours within 3 or 4 hours of nowhere, it'll probably keep me a while. (I don't count Cliffy's deal, since I figured there was a good chance he'd change his mind. ;) )

Bought a PG9 Xtra about 3 yrs ago. It arrived trashed (thanks to the Unionized Projector Smashers and an idiot seller) so I sold it to Curt and got my XG852. I've had that for over 2.5 yrs but it came down off the ceiling last month. Right now there's a Dwin HD700 on the ceiling but I'm grooming an 8500 for the position.

So I'm either 3 years or 1 month (or zero!), depending on the projector... :) Guess I'll say 3 years.

I seem to have an ancient unit compared to most of you guys... The Dwin HD-700 I bought around 2001 is still hanging from my ceiling and is displaying a great image. It will be replaced in a couple of months though. :cool:

-- Mehdi

I bought my XG from AVS six years ago and have no plan to dump it. It has been great.

Lots more 5 years and over than I expected. Give me a year and 4 months and I'll be part of your group. :)

I also read Cliff's post. I talked to him once about 6 months ago when he had a G70. I was trying to sell him my NEC 10PG. It was before I had my theater built and thought I could find another 10PG before it was finished. I'm so glad I didn't sell it. Recently however, I have had some troubles the last 2 weeks, F8 error and trying to get it fixed now. I thought about fixing it and selling it, but something in the back of my mind said, "you have waited a long time to get a cinemascope theater built, now you want to throw it all away in place of a digital????" "Snap out of it!!" I'll have to be patient and wait for Doug to come down and fix it. Until then, I am finding things in the yard to work on to pass the time. I would like to get another 2 years out of the CRT, besides the tubes are still nines!!! Maybe that will be around the time Cliff will be dumping his G90's.

"you have waited a long time to get a cinemascope theater built, now you want to throw it all away in place of a digital????"

Um, if you really want a CH set up, a digital is a better choice then a CRT.

Over three to four years nothing has lasted much over 6 months. Not that they died or anything, actually I have never had a problem happen to any of them.
Why I changed so often is a mystery even to myself.

Troy

Only had my XG110 for 3 or 4 months and now I have to let it go, sad day. But hopefully I will be getting back to crt in a few years down the road.

3 years on my Marquee 8500 but soon to be replaced by a 9500LC.

About 26months ago I decided I was going to go bigscreen for the superbowl. I discovered CRT as the best and biggest pic for the dollar, and acquired my BG801 two years ago this month.
I'm now using a 9PG Plus as my production PJ, with a 9PG Xtra waiting in the wings with a recently replaced oscillator board.

Well I've had my AmPro 4600HD up on the ceiling for three years. It's not being used at this time as it needs a new green tube and Christmas was more important. Now that the expense of that is out of the way, I can put a few buckaroos aside each week till I can pay cash for the new tube.

In it's place is a wonderfull 3600HD

Chip

I bought my first Barco Graphics 800 for about $2000 off eBay from "cieinternational" (who still sells surplus) back in January of 1999. Eleven months later, it broke and the search for spare parts in this addicting hobby led me to today's delima of having parts and projectors in almost every room of the house.

Mark

Rounded up to three years here on a G70.

The G70 was a nice upgrade from a 1272. I'll run it till the tubes fall off :)

I voted "1 year" based on my current projector, but my history goes as follows:

Dec 2000 - Oct 2005: Barco 800
Oct 2005 - Today: Zenith 1200 (aka Barco Cine 8 Onyx)

Kal

Kind of shocked myself as I dug through some paperwork to find some dates. Got the 1271 in Nov 1995. First and only FP. Still solid as a rock but showing it's age (tube-wise). I remember when I used to come to this forum and there was nobody here.

Kind of shocked myself as I dug through some paperwork to find some dates. Got the 1271 in Nov 1995.
:eek: I was just getting out of diapers then!

I got my XG in October 2005, but only started using it in November 2006 (I'm slow).

Um, if you really want a CH set up, a digital is a better choice then a CRT.


Listen, not to sound rude, but have you ever tried a 2.35 setup with a CRT? This is kind of off topic, but just have to defend myself here. Instead of making a comment like that, why don't you do a search and see if I'm the only one REALLY making a go of 2.35 with CRT. There are actually a few here that do have 2.35 setups and are quite happy with them. Maybe the reason there are only a few who dare is because it's so damned hard to setup. If you don't believe me, ask Doug Baisey. He would be the first to tell you it's not an "enjoyable" experience............but it is amazing when the time is taken and done right. The immersion I get sitting at 1.2 times the screen width is incredibly cinematic. I don't know of an affordable digital that could replicate what I am seeing.

A Sony VPH-1000QM for 13 years on the same set of tubes, they had 20,000 hours on them when I bought it and I have put 60,000-80,000 hours and counting through it.
:)

5 months or so on my Marquee 81110+

Great projector after I went through the learning curve and figured out some of my setup snafu's

Re changing or getting new - I can't imagine hauling that beast down from the ceiling unless its broken - I am hoping at least 3 years or so and by that time there will be a latest and greatest that will be better and not too expensive

Another interesting point with me is that my HD displays (and I seem to get a new one every 18 months have all cost about the same (around $1k) and I still own all of them and they all work fine in order of history going back maybe 6 years:

RCA MM36100 Store model closeout (36 in direct view)
Sharp PG A10x (XGA LCD FP- now for portable and sons' use)
Sony KD36Xs955 Refurb (36 inch direct view)
and the best by a nose over the Sony: Marquee 81110+ with 17000 hours

Had a Visual Dynamics Ref 8 (modded Marquee 8500) with new tubes, put 400 hours on it in 8 months... then go the twin 9500 Ultra's, had them for 6+ months, but for each of those months I've added some sort of mod.

I've also gone from a 90" 16:9 screen for 8 months, to a 136" 1.92:1 for a few months, then to a 169" 2.40:1 for the last couple of months.

Listen, not to sound rude, but have you ever tried a 2.35 setup with a CRT? This is kind of off topic, but just have to defend myself here. Instead of making a comment like that, why don't you do a search and see if I'm the only one REALLY making a go of 2.35 with CRT. There are actually a few here that do have 2.35 setups and are quite happy with them. Maybe the reason there are only a few who dare is because it's so damned hard to setup. If you don't believe me, ask Doug Baisey. He would be the first to tell you it's not an "enjoyable" experience............but it is amazing when the time is taken and done right. The immersion I get sitting at 1.2 times the screen width is incredibly cinematic. I don't know of an affordable digital that could replicate what I am seeing.

I'm doing 2.40 CIH, but that's in a blended setup, so I'm really maximising phosphor usage here. Maybe Dave was speaking of your reduced phosphor usage running 2.35 CIH on a single projector? Now a blend... that is super damned hard to setup.

Got my NEC 6PGextra in 2001, still using it and probaly will for a couple of years to come.

Scopeboy,
I considered to do a 2.35 setup, but never found a solution what to do with subtitles. Most 2.35 movies have at least some part of the subtitles in the lower black bar if not all subtitles. To move them up into the image seemed complicated if not impossible. Most of the time I do not need them, but I occasionally enjoy a french, spanish or chinese movie !!

Thomas

My first was a Panasonic PT101 in 2000; that opened the flood gates.

Every time I tell my sons that this is the last CRT going on the ceiling they roll their eyes, chuckle, and say something sarcastic. Pretty soon they will all have left home, so I'll have to settle on something.

Willie

This will be an interesting poll, but it won't serve the purpose I intended. It will just show how long members have owned their current PJ. It will not indicate how often they change PJs, if at all. I'll do another poll in a couple of days.


How many CRT PJ's have you owned in the last seven years.

1
2-3
4-5
6-8
9-15
15-25
I am Curt

Phil, I'd like to see your poll over in the digital forum to compare.

7 years and 5,000 hours with my G70.

A Sony VPH-1000QM for 13 years on the same set of tubes, they had 20,000 hours on them when I bought it and I have put 60,000-80,000 hours and counting through it.
:)Whoa! This has to be a new record... Got any pictures of the tubes? I"m curious what condition they're in!

Kal

Bought a Kloss Novabeam about 25 years ago. In 1998 I bought a Runco 852 due to all the hype in the rags. Now that was a real mistake. I got a very good discount on it when I bought it so the pain wasn't as bad. Retired in 1999 and moved to Arizona and found this forum. In 2004 I bought a 9500LC from the Big Dog in Scottsdale. Sold the Runco to Curt for pocket change.

Kind of shocked myself as I dug through some paperwork to find some dates. Got the 1271 in Nov 1995. First and only FP. Still solid as a rock but showing it's age (tube-wise). I remember when I used to come to this forum and there was nobody here.That's amazing!

A Sony VPH-1000QM for 13 years on the same set of tubes, they had 20,000 hours on them when I bought it and I have put 60,000-80,000 hours and counting through it.
:)That's even more amazing!

Wow! I'm speechless.

How many CRT PJ's have you owned in the last seven years.

1
2-3
4-5
6-8
9-15
15-25
I am CurtEddie,

I've been thinking a lot about it. I like your idea, and I like "how long is the longest you've owned a CRT PJ" with the same choices as this poll. I think I'll do both. I'll do your suggestion once this thread dies, and I do the other poll at a later date.

Phil, I'd like to see your poll over in the digital forum to compare.Last night I actually looked to see if someone had done a copy cat poll in the digital forum. Some of them read our forum and I thought they might have thought it would be an interesting poll in theirs. But it dawned on me that we always rag on how they're always upgrading to the latest and greatest. And they truely do, so a poll like this would just be giving us more ammo. I don't think a poll like this would be at all welcome in their forum. :D

"6 months or less" 36!
CRT used market is doing well.

Here's an interesting twist on a poll: compare percentage of current CRT who were former bulb owners against how many current bulb owners who were former CRT owners.

I bet both numbers are really small, implying two very different user characteristics. I'd even wager the statistic is probably similar to the number of former Christians who converted to Islam and vise versa.

Ooh - I feel the religious fervor growing and hearing the call of jihad. "Death to CRT --- death to digital"

ok - maybe a bit non-PC but just in jest amongst the boys. I mean you do all admit CRT ownership is more ideology and culture rather than science or practical in nature. ;)

"6 months or less" 36!
CRT used market is doing well.Depends on what you are measuring against. I'm sure there are at least 36 digitals sold every minute of the business week.

Oh I was just comparing it within the same poll table.

I'd even wager the statistic is probably similar to the number of former Christians who converted to Islam and vise versa.

Ooh - I feel the religious fervor growing and hearing the call of jihad. "Death to CRT --- death to digital"

ok - maybe a bit non-PC but just in jest amongst the boys. I mean you do all admit CRT ownership is more ideology and culture rather than science or practical in nature. ;)

Count the minutes until this thread gets locked or deleted. ;)
Windy, I know this was not baiting the community and was stated in jest, but this kind of comment can quickly spin out of control in a forum like this.

That said, Leave It Alone Boys... Nothing to see here, move along, move along... :p

Depends on what you are measuring against. I'm sure there are at least 36 digitals sold every minute of the business week.

Im sure if this were the digital forum its would be 95% within 6 months and .00001% 5 years with how fast they seem to go from one "crt beater" to the next

:p

Here's an interesting twist on a poll: compare percentage of current CRT who were former bulb owners against how many current bulb owners who were former CRT owners.

I bet both numbers are really small, implying two very different user characteristics.

It is more than you think. A decent percentage of Curt's customers are disillusioned bulb owners. At the same time, there are many CRT owners willing to sacrifice picture quality for the digital ease, so with each new round of digitals, there are some number of CRT owners that decide they are "good enough" now to switch. Some come back to CRT within 6 months, some don't.


I mean you do all admit CRT ownership is more ideology and culture rather than science or practical in nature. ;)

Sort of. It is true that a CRT owner falls into 1 of two camps (or ideologies):
1) Wants the best possible projected image.
2) Wants the best image per $$$ spent

Science? Well that is on both sides. The CRTs are better in some measurable ways.

Practical? I'm not sure which is more practical. A PJ that is going to blow its light source one of the times I turn it on (probably after inviting 7 people over to watch a movie) with no warning or give my guests a headache, or a reliable PJs that just takes longer to install and set up. Guess it depends upon which "practical" aspect you value more. :)

Dave

I think the demand for CRT PJs is dwindling because of the ever shrinking difference in quality between digital and CRT. I think this has a big effect on the first time buyer's decision. We all know there's still plenty of reasons to choose CRT, but I bet it no longer seems that way to a newbie.

I have to admit that there are people that don't want to tinker, and they're going to to take the route of ease, meaning digital. I tried to talk my brother into using a CRT and he flat out said "NO! It's too difficult". Throw in the fact that some better digitals are coming out and are quite affordable...

The average person looking to buy a PJ is going to go digital simply because you buy what you see. Thats why forums like this are great; people buy the cheapy digitals and google to see why they have such a crappy picture. They find avsforum and before you know it they stumble into the crt forum and discover nirvana. :)

Oh, I'm not arguing that it is dwindling. Yes, digitals are now at the point that they can get 90% of the picture quality for 1.5 to 2 times the price. When it is 99% of the picture quality for 1.2 times the price, CRT PJs will be dead. But, I don't see how this will happen for at least a couple years.

I just have an 8" LC PJ and I've seen the Ruby, Pearl, et al, and if someone offered me an even trade for one of these, I would not take it because the picture quality is not good enough.

Dave

I knew it would not take much to get a reaction. Sort of like playing with matches around a gas can. Not a matter of if, just how long and how big the bang. :-)

@Phil and William,
After all these years of waiting, I think now for me has become the tipping point where the advantages clearly outweigh those of CRT. And it is the vast improvement in the price/performance curve of digitals that has already killed to lower end (7") CRT market. If people don't see this, then there really is no basis for a rationale discussion. Honestly, it would be the rare individual who would decide to spend $800 bucks on anything other than a true 720p bulb unit (in the context of FP display).

I've never been one for posting much because I got so much information from just reading all the post you pro's put in here for us novice guy's. I figured I can at least add to the list.

NEC 6PG Xtra - 4+ years (still owned)
Marquee 8501 - 3 years (not installed, HT room under construction)
ECP 4101 - Recent compulsive buy, almost perfect tubes.

One day when I can afford it, a 9500 LC or 1209s will be my dream.

Thanks again for the help through the years!

Honestly, it would be the rare individual who would decide to spend $800 bucks on anything other than a true 720p bulb unit (in the context of FP display).I agree with that. However this forum is full of those rare individuals. We think CRT PJs are better. Many of us, including myself, can afford to buy any PJ we choose. We choose CRT. That many of us didn't have to spend much is just icing on the cake. :)

I've never been one for posting much because I got so much information from just reading all the post you pro's put in here for us novice guy's.Boy Willie do we have you fooled. ;)

Seriously, you should post more. The more the merrier.

Honestly, it would be the rare individual who would decide to spend $800 bucks on anything other than a true 720p bulb unit (in the context of FP display).

I agree. As with everything, it is the rare individual who wants the best.

Dave

5 years for my first projector and almost 3 years on my second.

Whoa! This has to be a new record... Got any pictures of the tubes? I"m curious what condition they're in!

Kal
The tubes have no burn at all, although they are getting a little dim now but I can still view a 138" diagonal picture in a room that has light coming in from the kitchen, the light does not shine directly on the wall where the picture is displayed (no screen yet but will get one soon) it shines slightly toward the projector but mostly across the loungeroom between the projector and wall, this just means some black level is lost but I can still see where I am walking although a sudden fade to black (FTB) makes it a little difficult to see due to reaction time of my eyes but I can still see enough to not trip on anything (like the 1270 that is in pieces on my longeroom floor).
Once I get the 1270 up and running (waiting for a replacement tube from the seller see: this thread (http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3624&sid=a5eac9d3eb22efbc0529036447649dd3) for details) I will take the lenses off the VPH1000QM and take pics.
I am also working on a Barco Retroblock D808S that has been upgraded to a Graphics and has perfect tubes but needs a new 'C' element seal and glycol for the green tube.

Whoa . . . this made me go back and check and I just passed the six year mark on the Marquee 8500. (Thank you, Tim Martin!)

When I get home, I'll have to see how many hours we've racked up.

-Gary

5 years I think. Bought a M8500 off the bay. Replaced green and blue with rebuilds. Marquee maintenance upgrades with H1100's replaced with 449s. Used as a regular TV when the sun goes down and when there is football or golf when the sun is up. Still sitting on a coffe table in the Lroom. Wife has bad knees and won't allow it down stairs. Tubes are still white all around.

Walt

I'm surprized by how many members voted on both ends of the poll.

A lot people have recently bought new PJs. That might be because they change PJs often, they're newbies (welcome to the club!) or they're members that are upgrading because the prices have dropped so much.

The guys that have had their PJs for a long time have no reason to upgrade. They already have nice PJs. How many digital guys that have had their PJs a long time can say they have a good one? None! That's how many.

Another reason this poll would never fly on the digital forums: Having the latest and greatest is a status symbol for the digital guys. Admitting that you have an older PJ is embarrassing, not something to be proud of like it is with CRT owners.

Seems to me that the tweakers are at the short end of the poll. THey upgrade. Daily.

;)

Those that either bought high end sets, don't put HT at the forefront of their life or are completely happy with the set they have are at the long end.

I don't agree. I don't think it has anything to do with whether the owner is a tweaker or not, or cares about picture quality. All of our PJs are old. Whatever a person can buy today, they could have bought the same exact PJ 5 years ago. Many of these people have no reason to upgrade. I put myself in that category. I think a G70 is a really nice PJ and I have no desire to upgrade.

But I think you have ulterior motives for your post. Sorry if people like me aren't good for business Curt! ;)

I'm surprized by how many members voted on both ends of the poll.
I'm not surprised at the short end at all: Those that recently bought a PJ are here asking questions and reading on how to set it up. There are also tweakers here that are looking to better the performance, hence the reason they're in this forum daily and upgrading often.

Polls like this are sort of skewed for a number of reasons just like this. These are the people that see the polls in the first place. The guy that's had a PJ running perfectly well for 5 years and hasn't been on here for 4.5 years isn't obviously going to vote!

We get similar skewed numbers when someone posts a poll asking how realiable their PJ is since a large percentage of people currently on the forum today are people that experienced a problem and are looking for a solution, so the numbers are skewed.

So while like this polls are fun, take the numbers with an enormous grain of salt. In fact, I'd go so far to say that the numbers are meaningless.

I'm actually surprised how many people have had their CRT PJ for a long time and voted.... that's the really telling story. If you were to truly poll *all* CRT PJ owners worldwide, I bet the numbers would skew ever more towards long term ownership.

Kal

So while like this polls are fun, take the numbers with an enormous grain of salt. In fact, I'd go so far to say that the numbers are meaningless.Kind of like your CRT rankings list. ;) Seriously, you've truly done a lot neat things on the web site. The more I peruse it, the more impressed I become. But that list is just not very useful. There are some glaring errors.

Your point is valid, but kind of mute. Any poll on AVS only indicates what the *active members* own, do, like, dislike, etc. There's no reason to think the polls can/should represent anything more than that.

Any poll is a sample. Its accuracy depends on all sort of factors but still useful.
Now if everyone votes we are going to have a larger sample. The larger the sample the better it reflects the actual numbers.
Please post if you read this thread if it is applicable to you.

Kind of like your CRT rankings list. ;)
OUCH! :D Though not my list. It came from here and was contributed to by 100's of people here.

But that list is just not very useful. There are some glaring errors.Tell me what they are and we'll fix them. The list was created by everyone here so no reason why it can't change again.

I have to warn you that I consistently get people telling me something like "I don't think Ampro's should be listed as high!". OK. But when I write back asking me where they should be ranked and why, nobobdy can give me an answer. I've done this a number of times with members here. Help me fix it!

Your point is valid, but kind of mute. Any poll on AVS only indicates what the *active members* own, do, like, dislike, etc. There's no reason to think the polls can/should represent anything more than that.Yes, it's a poll of active members. Very true. If that's all we're trying to show then yes, it's a very accurate poll. Just pointing out that you can't take the results and make the assumption that it's in any way an indication of how long (on average) *all* CRT projector owners in the world have had their PJ's, that's all. We AVS'ers are a special bunch - we're a bit 'different'. :)

Any poll is a sample. Its accuracy depends on all sort of factors but still useful. Now if everyone votes we are going to have a larger sample. The larger the sample the better it reflects the actual numbers.
Please post if you read this thread if it is applicable to you.Useful to indicate what the currently active members here have done, but not useful to indicate how long the average CRT owner in the world has owned their projector. That's all I'm saying. If the latter is the goal then it's accurate of course. Even if you got every single person that's ever been an AVS member with a CRT projector to vote, it wouldn't still give you numbers that you could use outside of AVS. It wouldn't represent how long CRT PJ owners in the world owned their projector.

Guys, all I'm saying is that you can't take the results and apply them to a broad audience, that's all. I think we all agree.

Here's an extreme example: Put a survey at the gas station that asks "Do you own a car?". When 95% of respondents answer "yes" does that mean that 95% of the general population owns cars? Of course not.

Kal

1031Q #1 since 2000
1031Q #2 since 2001
1030Q since 2001
1271Q #1 since 2004
1271Q #2 since 2005
D50Q since 2006
1292Q coming soon!

God, I have a disease!

Kal-I did not disagree with you. Of course this is not a worldwide poll. It is a sample on AVS current traffic to CRT forum
I also agree the log term owners might be absent to vote which I think would be the dominant number in the poll if voted.

But I think you have ulterior motives for your post. Sorry if people like me aren't good for business Curt!

(sorry, I meant to quote the above from Phil)

Oh Phil, now you just want to fight..:)

Look at the posts from the tweakers here. They are constantly changing projectors, processors, lenses, mods, etc. Then there are the people that post only when they have an issue. Those start with 'I've had my XXXX projector for 5 years, and yesterday it turned purple', something like that. It's the same with the emails I get.

A lot of people are now upgrading their ES set to an EM focusing one after say 4-10 years of ownership. Many original owners of CRTs are switching to higher end sets since they are now really affordable. The tweakers aren't usually the people that buy from me anyways, they'll troll the various auction sites and will find something for dirt cheap and fix it up/tweak it up.

[B]Oh Phil, now you just want to fight..:)



He sure loves his jabs thrown time to time.. :)

But I think you have ulterior motives for your post. Sorry if people like me aren't good for business Curt!

(sorry, I meant to quote the above from Phil)

Oh Phil, now you just want to fight..:)He sure loves his jabs thrown time to time.. :)Yes, sometimes I get carried away. :o Most of the time I think my comments are valid. Rude maybe, but valid. That comment was uncalled for Curt. My apologies! :)

OUCH! :D Though not my list. It came from here and was contributed to by 100's of people here.

Tell me what they are and we'll fix them. The list was created by everyone here so no reason why it can't change again.I'm not familiar with most of the PJs on the list, but a few stand out as being out of place. Never seen an Ampro, but it's pretty much been established that they are problem prone. If for no other reason, they shouldn't be ranked near as high as they are. An undependable PJ is not a good PJ. All 8" LC PJs should be ranked higher, at the least.

There are others. I'll make a list when I get some time.

Guys, all I'm saying is that you can't take the results and apply them to a broad audience, that's all. I think we all agree.I think you're right! :)

I've said it before and maybe I stand alone. Post 1993 or so, Ampro is on par with other sets. I've had MANY through here that looked untouched with 10K + hours on them that were used long enough to toast the tubes. Pre 1993, well yes, they had issues, but a LOT of earlier sets now are breaking down due to chassis hours and just plain old age. The nice thing is, we can still repair them and I've repaired enough Sony 12XX/Barco 800/ECPs to turn around the boards quickly, aka cheaply at this point. 4 years ago I was on a learning curve with each repair, now they're pretty straightforward.

Heck, 17 years lifespan out of ANYTHING electronic is pretty damn good, and the smoke filled Ampro 2000 circa 1990 fired right up and filled my workshop with stale smoke smell... from the smoker that previously partied hard under it, not smoke from the set itself you naysayers!

:)

I've got six years on my G70.

5,400 Hrs on the tubes and running great.

Trying to hold out until I get to eight years or until some non-bulb based PJ comes out (laser, LED, etc.).

I'm not familiar with most of the PJs on the list, but a few stand out as being out of place. Never seen an Ampro, but it's pretty much been established that they are problem prone. If for no other reason, they shouldn't be ranked near as high as they are. An undependable PJ is not a good PJ. All 8" LC PJs should be ranked higher, at the least.

There are others. I'll make a list when I get some time.Thanks!
Make sure however to read the "How to use this list" section at the top as I think you may be reading too much into the list.

Back to our topic at hand...

Kal

I guess I was a "tweaker" (tho around here, that means user of meth, and I'm not into that :)) - starting with a free Barco, adding my Iscan Pro doubler, then my 980 Ultra, and now finally my VP50.....But now, I'm pretty much at the point of stable, satisfied user. Had I had 24k to blow, I could have scored my 980 new 8 or 9 years ago, but I still would have been upgrading the vps..

Now - now everything is fixed, pretty sure there won't be any vps released that look enough better to justify the expense (diminishing returns), so unless a really nice 9" walks in the door, I think I'll join the moribound crowd and just watch the dang thing..

as an aside - made the wife come in to watch an Iowa bb game in HD - she said, that looks ok - so I switched to the SD feed - she yelled "Turn it back. Make it go away. My eyes are closed!" After switching back, her only comment was, "Boy, that looks pretty good." As they say in the Mastercard commercial, PRICELESS. :D

All of our PJs are old. Whatever a person can buy today, they could have bought the same exact PJ 5 years ago. Many of these people have no reason to upgrade.

I disagree. My PJ was originally sold in 2001 (about 5 years ago) and cost $30,000. I could not have bought that 5 years ago. 5 years ago, I could only afford a 7" ES machine. My recent upgrade was solely due to pricing and availability. Over 2 years ago when I bought my 1208/2, my current PJ (if you could find one) would have been $4000 or more.

It is pretty much getting to the point now where you can buy a G90 today for what you paid for a G70 5 years ago. Surely, this has to be driving upgrades. Heck, you can get decent 8" EM machines now that can still keep up with all the newest digital models for less than $1500. There has to be a bunch of upgrading from 7" ES machines just due to that!

Dave

I have to agree with Dave on this one. With the prices of the 9"ers getting cheaper and cheaper, I jumped on the upgrade bandwagon and now have several 9" projectors. Five years ago, getting one of these machines was a pipe dream.

Hell, I remember flipping through copies of the Stereophile Guide to Home Theater magazine 10 years ago drooling over the $30-50K CRT projectors they had in there knowing full well that there was no way I'd ever be able to afford something like that! There was no way! I had tried to figure out if there was any justifiable way to pay $10-12K or so for a Sony D50 but realized that it was just too much money. Didn't make any sense.

Also ironic is that in the summer of 2001 I remember reading this review in The Perfect Vision: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/Zenith1200_Review_TPV.pdf
I distinctly remember drooling over this one thinking, wow - now that would be a really cool PJ to have!

Fast forward 4 years (not 5) to the fall of 2005 and a brand new one with less than 50 (non-factory) hours on the tubes arrived at my doorstep.

I think I need to start reading magazines about $250K Ferrari's, $5M yachts and $30M dream homes. :)

Kal

Also ironic is that in the summer of 2001 I remember reading this review in The Perfect Vision: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/Zenith1200_Review_TPV.pdf
I distinctly remember drooling over this one thinking, wow - now that would be a really cool PJ to have!

That became one of my "dream PJs" from that review. Funny how things sometimes work out. ;)

Dave

:) This review really had me drooling as well: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/zenith-pro-1200x-projector-11-2001.html

Kal

I think I need to start reading magazines about $250K Ferrari's, $5M yachts and $30M dream homes. :)

Kal

Don't think it works that way. ;) I've been reading Playboy and Penthouse for 30 years. :(

Also ironic is that in the summer of 2001 I remember reading this review in The Perfect Vision: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/Zenith1200_Review_TPV.pdf
I distinctly remember drooling over this one thinking, wow - now that would be a really cool PJ to have! That became one of my "dream PJs" from that review. Funny how things sometimes work out. ;)

DaveYou guys need bigger dreams! Had you set your sights higher, today you might be prowd owners of G70s. ;) :D

Don't think it works that way. ;) I've been reading Playboy and Penthouse for 30 years. :(:D

I agree with that. However this forum is full of those rare individuals. We think CRT PJs are better. Many of us, including myself, can afford to buy any PJ we choose. We choose CRT. That many of us didn't have to spend much is just icing on the cake. :)

No kidding.

My first and only projector (ECP-3100) was purchased with the simple premise that I have more time than money.

When I tell my friends that the 100" 720p picture they are gaming on cost me less than a digital bulb they can't understand how one could get so much for so little.

They laughed when we dragged it into my place...now my inbox is full of Superbowl watching requests.

My first PJ was a NovaBeam 100. I can't remember what year it was when I got it? I bought it new...must have been in the mid 1980's?? After two main board failures I upgraded it in 1994 with a Runco 750T the model with the built in tuner and speakers..120" screen 4X3. This PJ still works great and I was still using it up to 1 month ago.

I wanted to upgrade to HD so I bought a used Marquee 8500 from a member on this site...720P on a 110" screen...I can't stop watching it!!!

So....I guess I've been a CRT owner for over 20 years!! Now I hope to become a tweaker...LOL!! I go though the mechanical set up with the 8500 about every 2 weeks just to try to get it a little bit better!!!

Paul