I just purchased an Onkyo DVSP404 DVD upconvert player. I purchased this for DVD's as well as CD audio. This player doesnt support either of the HD audio formats. I could trade this in for the 504 that does support the HD audio. Is this worth while, or are these a dieing breed? Opinions??

Is there stuff out now you want to listen to? If you find enough, something like the $150 Oppo 970 is not much to sink into playback. Even if the formats aren't thriving, it doesn't matter if you can find stuff you like. Personally, I think the Beatles "Love" DVD-A and Floyd's "DSOTM" are enough to justify that much of a purchase, the "killer apps" if you will...

Agreed. It is unfortunate there are not more titles in DVD-A or SACD. But, for me, the ones that are there make it well worth the investment in a universal player.

The same here. I am just getting into SACD and have actually just bought my 1st last weekend. For me and my wife it makes sense because she loves classical music and jazz like Miles Davis and I like and I like bluegrass which all thankfullt have a lot of SACD's.

If you are at all a fan of classical music, then I would say yes. I have many genres in my hi-res audio collection, but even if classical was the only available genre, I'd still be in the hi-res "game". And with the Oppo (which has garnered good to very good reviews for hi-res playback--outstanding at its price point), there is little reason not to join the fun, IMO.

Do some research on the Onkyo DV-SP504. I have (had?) one and it died on me just after the warranty ended. My wife paid a lot of cash for it, but I guess now you can get them pretty cheap. Anyway, it is just a rebadged Pioneer (found this out while trying to research how to fix it) and you'd be better off getting the Pioneer IMO and saving a few bucks.

But, keep in mind the 504 doesn't do up converting. So, you'd be losing that feature.

For what it's worth, I too went with the Oppo 970 and am waiting for it to ship from Amazon. If you read about that player here or on the net, you'll be impressed. Upconverting AND SACD / DVD-A. I was at Barnes & Noble bookstore the other day and saw a high-end audio magazine (featured $4000 ea. speakers on the cover) that had a the Oppo 970 mentioned on it's cover. The article was only 1 page long but they were comparing it to a $1400.00 setup! Not bad for 1/10th the price! (They only reviewed the audio section as they are not a video mag.)

Back on topic though, you'd be surprised at how many genres do dabble in multi-channel audio. Some artists like Depeche Mode are releasing their back cateloge in 5.1.

Personally, I think the Beatles "Love" DVD-A and Floyd's "DSOTM" are enough to justify that much of a purchase, the "killer apps" if you will...

Can't agree with you more! I just called my dad and told him to come over so I can surprise him with the Pink Floyd DVD-A. :) I grew up with him listening to that on LP.

But, keep in mind the 504 doesn't do up converting. So, you'd be losing that feature.

Are you sure about that? I've been reading up on the 504 and Amazon says it upconverts to 720p or 1080i

For what it's worth, I just got onto the SACD/DVD-A bandwagon. I just got the Oppo 970 for Christmas, and have been buying the few hi-res disks that are available. I think that if a person is passionate about music and they like to be immersed in the sound, then you'll love the surround sound experience.


But... it's not for everyone.

For what it's worth, I just got onto the SACD/DVD-A bandwagon.Yeah. There are only about 5000 so far. ;)

For what it's worth, I just got onto the SACD/DVD-A bandwagon. I just got the Oppo 970 for Christmas, and have been buying the few hi-res disks that are available. I think that if a person is passionate about music and they like to be immersed in the sound, then you'll love the surround sound experience.


But... it's not for everyone.

Certainly not the iPod generation! However, if Apple or the other online music vendors were to find a way to encode DVD-A or SACD into Dolby Headphone format as an option, that would be an interesting experiment. Having listened to multichannel music on Dolby Headphone format (using WinDVD), it creates quite a realistic 5 channel effect on headphones - a much more spacious sound field than stereo.

I have often thought about home brewing MP3 or whatever tracks into Dolby Headphone format for my own portable player but it would require capturing the headphone output from say WinDVD in wav format and re-encoding into MP3 format. Might try it one way when I have a spare laptop around


Larry

It should be worth getting SACD and DVD-Audio capability now for most any surround music fan, although probably not worthwhile for somebody only interested in stereo. As Kal mentions, about 5,000 SACD releases to date and the schedule for 2007 appears to be similar to 2006. Although fewer DVD-A's are being released, there were a number in 2006 that I purchased and I expect a few in 2007. Both formats are so good, I would recommend them to anybody that isn't put off by surround music and copy protection.

Chris

I'm just getting into SACD's as well, but have yet to find any! Those of you who are finding them locally, where are they? Do they have their own section, or are they mixed in with regular CD's? All I have in my area is a Best Buy and they've never even heard of SACD (at least, neither of the super-helpful sales associates I've talked to.) Is ordering online the best way to get these?

Yeah, there are quite a few titles available. But... being that this is a surround music forum, how many of that 5k are encoded in surround? And of those, how many are not classical music? The number drops significantly. Don't get me wrong, I love the SACD/DVD-A formats, and the titles that are offered. I just wish, like I'm sure a majority here, there were more choices in the "other than classical" surround format.

I wish the studios would recognize that with the proliferation of people with 5.1 (and above) channel setups these days, they would re-visit DVD-A and SACD. Especially if the studios are so concerned about DRM.

And... Sony should get off their buts, and allow the proliferation of SACD into every DVD player that is put out, not only their brand, but every brand.

Sorry... haven't had enough coffee yet. Rant now over.

a lot of their problem is bad marketing when you go into a music store
and ask where the sacd's or dvd-a are they look at you and ask what is that.

I'm just getting into SACD's as well, but have yet to find any! Those of you who are finding them locally, where are they? Do they have their own section, or are they mixed in with regular CD's? All I have in my area is a Best Buy and they've never even heard of SACD (at least, neither of the super-helpful sales associates I've talked to.) Is ordering online the best way to get these?

A the Best Buys in my area the SACD's and the true DVD-A's have their own small section. The Dual Disk's with DVD-A are inserted alone with all the other CD's. The selections are not great at my stores so I find I will have to go online to get most of what I want.

Do some research on the Onkyo DV-SP504. I have (had?) one and it died on me just after the warranty ended. My wife paid a lot of cash for it, but I guess now you can get them pretty cheap. Anyway, it is just a rebadged Pioneer (found this out while trying to research how to fix it) and you'd be better off getting the Pioneer IMO and saving a few bucks.


The DV-SP504 was released less than half a year ago, or at least the European version DV-SP504E was, so warrenty should still be good.

Your player is probably is just a rebadgded Pioneer (like my DV-SP503E) but it sure looks nicer than the cheap Pioneer it was based upon. Many brands of players are rebadgded Pioneers with some changes.

I'm just getting into SACD's as well, but have yet to find any! Those of you who are finding them locally, where are they? Do they have their own section, or are they mixed in with regular CD's? All I have in my area is a Best Buy and they've never even heard of SACD (at least, neither of the super-helpful sales associates I've talked to.) Is ordering online the best way to get these?

I have found quite a few in the Best Buy in Little Rock and North Little Rock and the one in Springfield, MO. I also purchased about 50 from yourmusic.com at $5.99 delivered. The price has been raised now to $6.99 delivered and the remaining titles are about 45 or so if I recall. Go to yourmusic.com and search for album "SACD" or (SACD) if you are interested.

Chris

I have never found an SACD or DVDA in a retail store in the sparsely (MOL)
populated area where I live, except of course the widely distributed DSOTM SACD
. Actually, pretty much all my music is ordered online.
Thank goodness for the digital (ordering!) era.
The closest analog I have to a music sales store is a......Super Wally World!
I recently asked 4 young associates leaning against the counter where one might
find either a SACD or DVDA. ......none of which had a freaking clue what I was
speaking of. I guess if I had said eye-POD the glaze over their eyes would have
de-materialized.
Sad, on all counts.

I don't think dvda or sacd will ever replace CD's as the mainstream music format by any stretch of the imagination. But the difference in sound is > the difference in sound between tape and cd IMO. The fact that more music is being released for each format is promising.

Much like HDTV, you will have a hard time going back to the standard def format after seeing how good it can be. My CD library takes 2nd place to my handful of SACD's and DVDA's.

Get the OPPO-970, I did. Beatles - Love, Doors - Perception, Moody Blues - 5 Titles. Really... Your ears will thank you.

For those of you who mentioned the Oppo 970 player for SACD and DVD-A, what is your opinion of the Oppo 981 for those music formats? I only ask as that is the model I am interested in purchasing for it's 1080p upconversion for watching movie DVD's on my HDTV. Thanks for any input!

Here is a good review of the 981 that also touches on its audio capabilities.....http://audiophileaudition.com/article_print.php?ArticleID=2327

I got the Onkyo 790 AV system and Oppo 981 SACD/DVD-A player recently, but it's not set up til I get my AV cabinet that's on order. My original plan was to upgrade DVD and AV surround sound for my HDTV but I'm now anticipating hi-res audio even more.

I'm finding some hi-res pop titles getting very hard to find already, and rarer ones are price spiking at $100. I only plan to collect maybe 10-20 of my favs from the past and some newer ones. I've purchased about 4-5 already.
I expect BB and CC to at some point start slashing them out, but for now I'm shopping online.

I'm just getting into SACD's as well, but have yet to find any! Those of you who are finding them locally, where are they? Do they have their own section, or are they mixed in with regular CD's?

I shop for my SACD's at Fry's electronics, a huge warehouse type store. They have a separate section for DVD-A and SACD, but their stockers don't know that, as the formats seem to be mixed up in both sections. The selection gets bigger and bigger each time I'm there.

At one time there were only a few titles that interested me; now, I can't buy the interesting titles fast enough.

Doug

I am a 2 channel music lover but have a 7.1 electrostatic setup and dedicated home theater. Often I have considered surround music but have never pulled the trigger. For 2CH I like the imaging and staging that I get....band playing in front of me.

How would you guys/gals describe the multi-channel experience?

How would you guys/gals describe the multi-channel experience?Better, in almost every way. ;)

I am a 2 channel music lover but have a 7.1 electrostatic setup and dedicated home theater. Often I have considered surround music but have never pulled the trigger.Next time you play some 2 channel music, push the Pro Logic IIx button and take a listen. Don't worry, you won't damage anything. It won't be discrete multi-channel, but it will give you a preview of music in surround.

Sanjay

I'm a newbie and I've only really heard the new Beatle Love CD in 5.1 hi-res on a low-end Onkyo HTIB and it was amazing. Not gimmicky at all and very rich and full sounding.
I'm setting up my own system, (Oppo DVD and Onkyo HTIB) just waiting on my darn AV cabinet to get delivered.

I am a 2 channel music lover but have a 7.1 electrostatic setup and dedicated home theater. Often I have considered surround music but have never pulled the trigger. For 2CH I like the imaging and staging that I get....band playing in front of me.

How would you guys/gals describe the multi-channel experience?

Most high resolution surround releases will have a stereo mix as well so you can have the best of both with SACD and DVD-A. I usually slightly prefer listening in surround but some discs are best in stereo.

Chris

I'm a newbie and I've only really heard the new Beatle Love CD in 5.1 hi-res on a low-end Onkyo HTIB and it was amazing. Not gimmicky at all and very rich and full sounding.
I'm setting up my own system, (Oppo DVD and Onkyo HTIB) just waiting on my darn AV cabinet to get delivered.

I think that one is great also. There are a number of WEA DVD-A's that are getting harder to find and if you like the music should get busy trying to find your favorites, I don't know if they are going to be re-released but I sure doubt it.

Chris

Next time you play some 2 channel music, push the Pro Logic IIx button and take a listen. Don't worry, you won't damage anything. It won't be discrete multi-channel, but it will give you a preview of music in surround.

I have tried that but I don't really think I have my system optimized for it. It seems that when I do it I lose the imaging and the "power" of 2CH. Are there common suggestions for tuning a multi-channel system for best listening?

I have tried that but I don't really think I have my system optimized for it. It seems that when I do it I lose the imaging and the "power" of 2CH. Are there common suggestions for tuning a multi-channel system for best listening?I agree with you about simply pushing the DPL button with a stereo source. One gets surround but at a price. Since you have a 7.1 system, why not try a discrete multichannel disc that is compatible with your equipment. Assuming you can play DVDs, get hold of one of the AIX DVDs of music that appeals to you and try out the DD or DTS tracks.

DPL II depends greatly on the stereo mix, and results vary wildly unless the track was deliberately mixed to Lt/Rt instead of just L/R.
Trouble is because it is a matrix encoding system, sounds panning in opposite directions will collapse the soundfield almost down to mono.
There are other gotchas as well, too numerous to go into.
DPL II can work, but shouldn''t be done blindly as the results can be awful.

Quite. I disagree with the suggestion that DPL II offers any real "preview of music in surround".

I do quite often put DPLII Music on, but I'm increasingly finding myself going back to straight stereo. But neither compares to true multichannel.

THere is truly no substitute for discrete multichannel.

tried the aix disc and very pleased with the sound and how it was distributed.

I agree with you about simply pushing the DPL button with a stereo source. One gets surround but at a price. Since you have a 7.1 system, why not try a discrete multichannel disc that is compatible with your equipment. Assuming you can play DVDs, get hold of one of the AIX DVDs of music that appeals to you and try out the DD or DTS tracks.

Bingo, I will do that. Thanks!

Bingo, I will do that. Thanks!Of course, imho, the DVD-A tracks are even better but let's take this one step at a time. :)

Anyone notice how prices for the rarer hi-res discs are spiking on ebay? I'm starting a collection and have about 6 discs. I've been watching ebay for a few months and certain titles are demanding pretty high prices now. I was an ELP disc go for $75 this week.