Not trolling whatsoever here...but is the reason for the popularity the country's great love for the Sony name and the PS3 - is that it ? Or are both formats just starting out ?

Don't believe it has anything to do with capacity or so forth. I just find it puzzling, as Toshiba are also a hugely popular company within Japan of course.

Not trolling whatsoever here...but is the reason for the popularity the country's great love for the Sony name and the PS3 - is that it ? Or are both formats just starting out ?

Don't believe it has anything to do with capacity or so forth. I just find it puzzling, as Toshiba are also a hugely popular company within Japan of course.

Dude, Sony is worshiped big time. I think they sacrifice small animals in the name of Sony in Japan :D

Lets look at the consoles. Hands down 360 is owning the PS3 in content(Gears,Halo 3, Bioshock,Blue Dragon). Keep in mind, our HI def friends on the blu side, constantly scream CONTENT wins the war in relation to HI DEF. Why then is the PS3 owning the 360 in sales? Gears of War alone trounces, and will continue to trounce anything that comes on the PS3 for sometime.

Blind zealot worshiping?

If you Hi Def folks are gamers to, then you should all have a 360. Its content remember?

Not trolling whatsoever here...but is the reason for the popularity the country's great love for the Sony name and the PS3 - is that it ? Or are both formats just starting out ?

Don't believe it has anything to do with capacity or so forth. I just find it puzzling, as Toshiba are also a hugely popular company within Japan of course.Sony PS3 is one factor, but the real force behind Blu-ray is Panasonic/Matsushita, the world's largest consumer electronics maker.

Japanese prefer recorders to players, and HD DVD has struggled to produce a workable recorder. Their effort so far has been an unholy beast which I've not heard good things about regarding reliability, and is not exactly cheep.

As to 360 vs PS3 the MS strategy in Japan has failed bigtime. Games that appeal here or in the states don't neccessarily play so well in the land of the rising sun, while the reverse is also true. And, yes, gears of war is plenty fun.

The lack of a working shippable HDDVD burner is what killed HDDVD as a PVR/Recorder in Japan. As Isaac described, Toshiba and NEC struggled to get the burner working, apparently still struggling at this point.

The japanese like their optical recorders to come with a HDD that can also make recordings onto an optical media - they basically launched the DVD rcorder market and are now transitioning (albeit slowly) into the very expensive BD recorder.

The best selling BD recorder unit is actually a Panasonic, Sony is a distant #2. In terms of DVD recorders, Panasonic has always had the largest market share in Japan. I don't think people here realize how much toshiba is behind panasonic in the technology curve of the optical burner, but that is a divisive topic, so let's just not talk about that kind of stuff here.

Instead look around for the working selling HDDVD burner and 51GB 3-layer blank. That will be the minimum requirement for Toshiba to do well.

Japanese prefer recorders to players, and HD DVD has struggled to produce a workable recorder. Their effort so far has been an unholy beast which I've not heard good things about regarding reliability, and is not exactly cheep.

As to 360 vs PS3 the MS strategy in Japan has failed bigtime. Games that appeal here or in the states don't neccessarily play so well in the land of the rising sun, while the reverse is also true. And, yes, gears of war is plenty fun.

I think Issac pretty much summed it up in his first paragraph. Hard disk/DVD recorders have been popular here for sometime, which is why standalone VHS recorders have been all but extinct for years here. There's a reason why none of the Blu-ray players that are available in the U.S. are being offered in Japan. People would only end up with two units taking up precious space in already crowded Japanese homes.

Because of this familiarity with HDD and DVD recorders, I think Japanese consumers have a greater appreciation for the advantages of greater storage capacity when recording digital video, which gives Blu-ray an immediate edge over HD-DVD. And yes, 50 Gb dual layer recordable media is already easily available here, although they're still pricey. Also, Sony released a Blu-ray recorder here almost 4 years ago (followed shortly thereafter by Sharp), giving Blu-ray a tremendous advantage in name recognition. These recorders weren't compatible with the current BD-ROM standard so they can't play movie discs, but they served their purpose in establishing Blu-ray as a recognizable "Hi-vision" recording format.

And although it's easy to dismiss the PS3 because of it's lack of games at the moment, you should be aware that Japanese gamers are far more comfortable using their gaming console to watch movies. A much larger percentage of Japanese PS2 owners used their console to watch movies back in 2000 because standalone DVD player prices were much higher in Japan at the time than they were in the U.S. The popular "Gamers buy the PS3 for games" scenario doesn't hold true here the way it does in the States.

Sure Sony has its loyal following, but that's really only a small part of it. If it was Sony worshipping that responsible for the popularity of Blu-ray, why is it that the biggest selling standalone BD recorder by far is a Panasonic?

I think Issac pretty much summed it up in his first paragraph. Hard disk/DVD recorders have been popular here for sometime, which is why standalone VHS recorders have been all but extinct for years here. There's a reason why none of the Blu-ray players that are available in the U.S. are being offered in Japan. People would only end up with two units taking up precious space in already crowded Japanese homes.

Because of this familiarity with HDD and DVD recorders, I think Japanese consumers have a greater appreciation for the advantages of greater storage capacity when recording digital video, which gives Blu-ray an immediate edge over HD-DVD. And yes, 50 Gb dual layer recordable media is already easily available here, although they're still pricey. Also, Sony released a Blu-ray recorder here almost 4 years ago (followed shortly thereafter by Sharp), giving Blu-ray a tremendous advantage in name recognition. These recorders weren't compatible with the current BD-ROM standard so they can't play movie discs, but they served their purpose in establishing Blu-ray as a recognizable "Hi-vision" recording format.

And although it's easy to dismiss the PS3 because of it's lack of games at the moment, you should be aware that Japanese gamers are far more comfortable using their gaming console to watch movies. A much larger percentage of Japanese PS2 owners used their console to watch movies back in 2000 because standalone DVD player prices were much higher in Japan at the time than they were in the U.S. The popular "Gamers buy the PS3 for games" scenario doesn't hold true here the way it does in the States.

Sure Sony has its loyal following, but that's really only a small part of it. If it was Sony worshipping that responsible for the popularity of Blu-ray, why is it that the biggest selling standalone BD recorder by far is a Panasonic?

It's still Sony worshiping, because who is behind blu for the most part?

Also, another factor is a racial factor. Having a girlfriend from Japan helps with this opinion. She tells me how nationalism plays a huge role. Microsoft is seen as an evil American empire.

Yes it is very easy to dismiss it because of the games. It is seen by most as a game machine first ,blu ray second. No matter how you slice it, its big draw are the games. With or without blu, the PLAYSTATION name is known for one thing and one thing only. It seems like there is always some kind of excuse, and some talk of the PS3 not knowing what it is. The games are crap, so the excuse is "Well its a blue ray, in Japan its being used for that" I doubt Sony wants the GAME portion of the PS3 relegated to the cheap seats.

It's still Sony worshiping, because who is behind blu for the most part?

The top seller is a Panasonic BD recorder with about 58% of the HD player/recorder market in Nov/Dec 2006.

Everyone should check out the When do you think Universal will first release content on BDs in Japan? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=791050) poll. There is a lot of great info posted there about Blu-ray in Japan.

Gary

The top seller is a Panasonic BD recorder.

Gary
Don't bother, it's not worth the effort. Though it is amusing to watch some of these fellas' tide of Sony hate crash up against the harsh rocks of reality.Clearly the Japanese are buying the Panny because they love Sony. ;)

BTW I'd forgotten Blu-ray being available for so many years in Japan, with it's associated name recognition. That's a very good point.

BTW I'd forgotten Blu-ray being available for so many years in Japan, with it's associated name recognition. That's a very good point.

Also, it was pointed out (in the poll thread) that "HD" is associated with hard drive in Japan. They use the term "Hi-Vision" to refer to high definition (taken from the analog HD system out in Japan since the early 1990s).

So, HD DVD is confusing to the Japanese. They read that as a DVD unit with a hard drive.

Gary

Don't bother, it's not worth the effort. Though it is amusing to watch some of these fellas' tide of Sony hate crash up against the harsh rocks of reality.Clearly the Japanese are buying the Panny because they love Sony. ;)

BTW I'd forgotten Blu-ray being available for so many years in Japan, with it's associated name recognition. That's a very good point.

Issac, dont be silly. I happen to own a PS3

As far as the panny arguement.

Answer this, would panny have a top selling BD player without Sony? Um duh, of course not, there would be no blu ray. God why is that hard to understand.

Now Issac, whats worse, Sony hate, or legions of fanboys who act like they own Sony stock? Hello pot? this is kettle!

Answer this, would panny have a top selling BD player without Sony? Um duh, of course not, there would be no blu ray. God why is that hard to understand.


Because it is maybe not true?

Blu-ray was co-developed by Sony, Panasonic and Philips. In fact, some say that Panasonic did more to bring BD to market than Sony.

Gary

It seems like there is always some kind of excuse, and some talk of the PS3 not knowing what it is. The games are crap, so the excuse is "Well its a blue ray, in Japan its being used for that" I doubt Sony wants the GAME portion of the PS3 relegated to the cheap seats.

What you don't seem to be getting is that this isn't a matter of having "the GAME portion of the PS3 relegated to the cheap seats." For some reason, a lot of people seem to think it has to be one or the other. Maybe it's about the willingness of the user to see the PS3 as having value beyond being JUST a game console or JUST a Blu-ray player. Just because American buyers can't get past this black and white perception of the PS3's functionality doesn't mean people in other countries can't. Maybe Japanese consumers find value in products with complementary functionality that are dismissed by their U.S. counterparts. That would go a long way in explaining why HDD/DVD recorders and now HDD/Blu-ray recorders are so popular here.

And it's true that Microsoft is observed with a measure of distrust, but nationalism in Japan only goes so far when it comes to brand loyalty. Ask your girlfriend this question. If she were back in Japan and won a contest in which she could choose between a BMW, Mercedes Benz or Lexus of comparable price, which would she (or any of her friends) choose? I've posed this question numerous times to Nihonjin friends here and guess which brand always loses?

Answer this, would panny have a top selling BD player without Sony? Um duh, of course not, there would be no blu ray. God why is that hard to understand.
As Gary pointed out, Matsushita are a key player in BD, and possibly the main stay. The fact that some games "enthusiasts" want to use this format war as an excuse to attack Sony has perhaps blinded some posters to this reality.

Now Issac, whats worse, Sony hate, or legions of fanboys who act like they own Sony stock? Hello pot? this is kettle!
Again you're mistakenly equating this situation as being for/against Sony. It's interesting to see that even the correction of incorrect information can reveal this miopia.

It's still Sony worshiping, because who is behind blu for the most part?

Also, another factor is a racial factor. Having a girlfriend from Japan helps with this opinion. She tells me how nationalism plays a huge role. Microsoft is seen as an evil American empire.

Yes it is very easy to dismiss it because of the games. It is seen by most as a game machine first ,blu ray second. No matter how you slice it, its big draw are the games. With or without blu, the PLAYSTATION name is known for one thing and one thing only. It seems like there is always some kind of excuse, and some talk of the PS3 not knowing what it is. The games are crap, so the excuse is "Well its a blue ray, in Japan its being used for that" I doubt Sony wants the GAME portion of the PS3 relegated to the cheap seats.

Sony is not the biggest behind Blu-ray. Panasonic is. They hold the most patents, own the biggest replication plant in California and get the most royalties from BDA with Pioneer. Sony gets less than them.

I do not like Sony myself but these lies have to stop.

As Gary pointed out, Matsushita are a key player in BD, and possibly the main stay. The fact that some games "enthusiasts" want to use this format war as an excuse to attack Sony has perhaps blinded some posters to this reality.


Again you're mistakenly equating this situation as being for/against Sony. It's interesting to see that even the correction of incorrect information can reveal this miopia.

There is no mistake, most subject matter here in these boards tend to be for or against a product. I stand corrected if Sony is indeed not the major benefactor. But its funny how the Sony name comes up with every mention of Blu on this board.

As far as using the format war to attack a company, BD fans do it all the time. Microsoft is viewed by many Sony fans as a threat. I hear many bash the 360, without any clue what a great product it actually is.

By the way, you have to look into WHY people attack Sony. I do think people have valid points. They dont just attack Sony for the fun of it, or at least I dont. I am just sick and tired of Sony trying to force stuff down peoples throat. Sony themselves spew forth baffling rhetoric. For example

"The next generation does not start until we say it does"

So tell me, can you concede that it might just be possible that some Sony bashing is deserved with an anti consumer attitude such as that? Thats just one example. You dont get loyal customers by treating them like little kids, and telling them what is best for them.

Oh and Issac, I am just assuming, I am not sure, but if I were a bettin man, I would bet you own BD?

For the record, I own the following

PS3 60 GIG
XBOX360 with HDDVD add on

They have a better public education system than the US ;)
Tis true and I was going to say the same thing.

There is no mistake, most subject matter here in these boards tend to be for or against a product. I stand corrected if Sony is indeed not the major benefactor. But its funny how the Sony name comes up with every mention of Blu on this board.

As far as using the format war to attack a company, BD fans do it all the time. Microsoft is viewed by many Sony fans as a threat. I hear many bash the 360, without any clue what a great product it actually is.

By the way, you have to look into WHY people attack Sony. I do think people have valid points. They dont just attack Sony for the fun of it, or at least I dont. I am just sick and tired of Sony trying to force stuff down peoples throat. Sony themselves spew forth baffling rhetoric. For example

"The next generation does not start until we say it does"

So tell me, can you concede that it might just be possible that some Sony bashing is deserved with an anti consumer attitude such as that? Thats just one example. You dont get loyal customers by treating them like little kids, and telling them what is best for them.

Oh and Issac, I am just assuming, I am not sure, but if I were a bettin man, I would bet you own BD?

For the record, I own the following

PS3 60 GIG
XBOX360 with HDDVD add on
Sony say some dumb things. Microsoft say some dumb things. The Hollywood studios make and say some increadibly dumb things. Taking it personally, as I've seen on this board, is not a healthy sign. The reason you see their name come up almost interchangably with BD is that we've had an influx of games zealots who want to use this format war to carry on their petty grievences. Facts don't seem to stop them or even slow them down too much.

I live in England, and don't intend to import electronics, so guess which of those game systems I've been using recently. As I said earlier in this thread - Gears of War is mighty good fun!

Why does what people or corporations SAY have anything to do with whether or not we should support a product? The product offered should be the basis of the decision.

Product support is a totally selfish act. Allowing politics blind one to the value being offered would be plain stupidity.

If we insist on being political: How does the move to get Chinese CE involved in the format battle not ultimately support and boost Chinese brand awareness and further the trend to outsourcing jobs to China?

It's the product that matters. The politics should be left at the door.

Gary

JP Anime is also real big on Blu-Ray...So you have JP Anime on Blu-Ray,Sony's PS3 and some great killer apps on the way,So to them...Why buy an American's Evil Empire's console and not have any of those? People in Japan are much more familar and comfortable buying a Sony product than they are an American one...I myself will never buy another American car.I've own 1 Chevy (first car) 2 Nissians and now a Toyota.

Sony is not the biggest behind Blu-ray. Panasonic is. They hold the most patents, own the biggest replication plant in California and get the most royalties from BDA with Pioneer. Sony gets less than them.

I do not like Sony myself but these lies have to stop.

If thats true, maybe its time for me to buy a Panasonic or Pioneer Blu-Ray player.

Dude, Sony is worshiped big time. I think they sacrifice small animals in the name of Sony in Japan :D

Lets look at the consoles. Hands down 360 is owning the PS3 in content(Gears,Halo 3, Bioshock,Blue Dragon). Keep in mind, our HI def friends on the blu side, constantly scream CONTENT wins the war in relation to HI DEF. Why then is the PS3 owning the 360 in sales? Gears of War alone trounces, and will continue to trounce anything that comes on the PS3 for sometime.

Blind zealot worshiping?

If you Hi Def folks are gamers to, then you should all have a 360. Its content remember?

The 360 did have a year head start, of course its going to have more games. I got sick of the 360 because it died on me twice (the 3 red lights thing). Microsoft is great with their warranties (They replace it for free) but the shipping became a hassle. Not to mention the fact that HD-A2 blows the add on away. Plus March is around the corner and thats when we get some killer titles.

Sony is not the biggest behind Blu-ray. Panasonic is. They hold the most patents, own the biggest replication plant in California and get the most royalties from BDA with Pioneer. Sony gets less than them.

I do not like Sony myself but these lies have to stop.

Well said, it seems some people would have us think that Sony are the only/biggest company behind Blu-ray, therefore playing on their recent bad press.

I bought Blu-ray despite the fact that I don't particularly agree with Sony's business practices (that said I disagree with MS a lot more), that is because I realise that there are more companies than just Sony behind R&D in Blu-ray.

Urza stop pigeonholing with this 'Japan worships Sony' stuff. That mentality is way too console-oriented.

Toshiba and Panasonic are every bit the Japanese company that Sony are, and as mentioned Blu-ray didn't demolish HD DVD there (yes I use the past tense) because of brand appeal alone, but because of actual products. Blu-ray recorders (in a prototypical form) have been shipping in Japan before HD DVD was ever even finalized as a standard.

As for Blu-ray being blindly associated with Sony - hey, you tell us! It's an HD DVD fanboy tactic; BD fans will tell you all day long that Blu-ray is the product of a broad-reaching industry coalition.

Thankyou so much for the answers on this thread - all this information is tremendously enlightening to me, and the situation makes a whole load of sense given the facts.

One would have though that the likes of Microsoft would have attempted to 'get' the market a little better given that they had plenty time to observe the Xbox's failure to succeed. For example, in including an HD-DVD player in the Japan edition.

Also - I wonder why Toshiba themselves have not tried harder to focus their own products toward the home market - for anyone in Japan - what is the advertising of HD-DVD like in Japan currently. Have they, essentially, given up ?

It is fascinating (and healthy!) how different the cultures react to technology - I was amazed how much of a hold MiniDisc had in Japan up until relatively recently - I remember visiting Japan about 10 years ago and being AMAZED at the variety of media and portable devices available !

Having been to Japan a few times, I think it's fair to say there is some nationalism that fosters distrust of Microsoft (certainly that's true for the 360), but it's really unfair to speak of Sony worship; many Japanese expressed dissapointment in Sony's last few years of business when I was there. The Japanese are more aware of the benefits of extra storage space (especially because of their preference for recording media), and as a culture tend to prefer taking a long-term outlook on a product, so I would expect the "better specs" arguement to weigh more heavily there than in the U.S., which tends to lean more towards instant gratification.

Notice that I am not saying one is better than the other, so please don't anyone get their undies in a bundle; it's just my observations on two cultures I've interacted with a fair amount.

The Japanese consumer on average is a smarter, more informed consumer than that of an America consumer... your average J6P.

Thankyou so much for the answers on this thread - all this information is tremendously enlightening to me, and the situation makes a whole load of sense given the facts.

One would have though that the likes of Microsoft would have attempted to 'get' the market a little better given that they had plenty time to observe the Xbox's failure to succeed. For example, in including an HD-DVD player in the Japan edition.

Also - I wonder why Toshiba themselves have not tried harder to focus their own products toward the home market - for anyone in Japan - what is the advertising of HD-DVD like in Japan currently. Have they, essentially, given up ?

It is fascinating (and healthy!) how different the cultures react to technology - I was amazed how much of a hold MiniDisc had in Japan up until relatively recently - I remember visiting Japan about 10 years ago and being AMAZED at the variety of media and portable devices available !

There are two big reasons why Minidisc was so popular in Japan. First, CD's cost at least twice as much as in US. Second, and the biggest is that you can rent CD's over there just like DVD's and tapes. People would just rent CD record it to Minidisc for couple bucks instead of paying $20-$30 dollars for a CD.

The Japanese consumer on average is a smarter, more informed consumer than that of an America consumer... your average J6P.

Also, Japanese consumer spends more on electronics because real estate is very expansive and to own a car you need a proof that you have a place to park it.

There are two big reasons why Minidisc was so popular in Japan. First, CD's cost at least twice as much as in US. Second, and the biggest is that you can rent CD's over there just like DVD's and tapes. People would just rent CD record it to Minidisc for couple bucks instead of paying $20-$30 dollars for a CD.

I'd like to add a third reason to the two you listed above. Trains. It never occurred to me until I moved to Japan just how many people ride the train to and from work or school everyday in metropolitan Japan. All of these people have to pass the time somehow, and music is a VERY popular way to do it. If you're going to spend 10+ hours on a train or bus every week, having a small, lightweight music player makes the time go by a lot faster. In those regards, MD beats CD and cassette hands down. Only now as MP3 players are becoming more affordable is MD being supplanted. The percentage of people I see on the train everyday with earphones on remains about the same, they're just listening to better technology.

One would have though that the likes of Microsoft would have attempted to 'get' the market a little better given that they had plenty time to observe the Xbox's failure to succeed. For example, in including an HD-DVD player in the Japan edition.

Microsoft is not HD DVD; their co-opting of the mantle has actually been a pretty recent occurence, and they're certainly not going to invest heavily via any financial means to take part in a war they rather have result in the death of both formats anyway. It's VC-1 and digital distribution they see as the future; a bridge period with HD DVD and VC-1 at its heart is just a "lesser of two evils" sort of a thing for them.

Also - I wonder why Toshiba themselves have not tried harder to focus their own products toward the home market - for anyone in Japan - what is the advertising of HD-DVD like in Japan currently. Have they, essentially, given up ?

This is the question to ask if you're asking "why aren't they fighting," but the answer's already been given. HD DVD has just been too slow in getting viable recorders onto the market, and now, the ship has sailed.

Sony is not the biggest behind Blu-ray.

But sony has most invested in BD.

But sony has most invested in BD.

As far as what?

Why does what people or corporations SAY have anything to do with whether or not we should support a product? The product offered should be the basis of the decision.

Product support is a totally selfish act. Allowing politics blind one to the value being offered would be plain stupidity.

If we insist on being political: How does the move to get Chinese CE involved in the format battle not ultimately support and boost Chinese brand awareness and further the trend to outsourcing jobs to China?

It's the product that matters. The politics should be left at the door.

Gary

Come on man, what a company says or does has a lot to do with it. Are you telling me what a company says or does should not effect a product decision? Remember what happend to companies that were found to use child labor in other countries? What happend? people stopped buying the products they made.

So tell me, lets say you find that Sony knowingly dumps chemicals into a small stream used by a poor town, and people keep getting cancer. Your telling me the value being offered is more important? Your a sick man.

Granted, thats an extreme example, but those kinds of things have and will continue to happen. So, anywhere from dumb statements, to criminal acts affects business. Not sure what business you run, but I am sure you wont get far mouthing off to customers.

Criminal acts should be punished, of course. Verbal insanity is just a fun game that all the top companies compete at. From Microsoft's "kill Google" to Sony's "next gen starts when we say so" it's all just indicitive of an overabundance of testosterone and a lack of deoderant. But then it's just PR and that stuff's like the WWE to me. I treat it accordingly.

Criminal acts should be punished, of course. Verbal insanity is just a fun game that all the top companies compete at. From Microsoft's "kill Google" to Sony's "next gen starts when we say so" it's all just indicitive of an overabundance of testosterone and a lack of deoderant. But then it's just PR and that stuff's like the WWE to me. I treat it accordingly.

But can you concede the point that it does alienate some customers, and can harm business? You may treat it lightly, but I can assure you the wrong "overabundance" and sales can go into the toilet.

While the internet may not be a barometer of anger, I have never seen so much Sony bashing in my life. Heck, I should be bitter, I owned Beta,Mini Disc, and now UMD is on its last legs.

I'm no great fan of Wikipedia, but here's a famous English case of loose lips sinking ships: Doing a Ratner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doing_a_Ratner)

Overtly positive hype for anything just tunes me out, whether it's nationalistic or corporate. I can see how some people would stay engaged with this type of promotion, though doubt that's the cause of most of the anti-Sony banter to be found on this or other forums. Just as most MS bashing doesn't seem to have it's roots in the latest PR quote. A certain group of individuals just hate these companies, regardless, and no sane person is going to touch their reasoning.

Come on man, what a company says or does has a lot to do with it. Are you telling me what a company says or does should not effect a product decision? Remember what happend to companies that were found to use child labor in other countries? What happend? people stopped buying the products they made.

So tell me, lets say you find that Sony knowingly dumps chemicals into a small stream used by a poor town, and people keep getting cancer. Your telling me the value being offered is more important? Your a sick man.


I said "SAY" not "says or does" (check it out). Criminal actions should be punished. However, they are not politics or corporate statements.

Really, do you honestly think I was saying the examples such as you present should be ignored?

Gary

But sony has most invested in BD.

Really, can you show us a link or scan in some (non-MS made) evidence to back that claim up?

I thought it was MEI myself.

But can you concede the point that it does alienate some customers, and can harm business? You may treat it lightly, but I can assure you the wrong "overabundance" and sales can go into the toilet.

While the internet may not be a barometer of anger, I have never seen so much Sony bashing in my life. Heck, I should be bitter, I owned Beta,Mini Disc, and now UMD is on its last legs.

But, can you show me any examples where people have expressed outrage against Sony or Microsoft in this debate over something said, who were not already firmly against their product offering, or pro the other side's, to begin with?

That is, these are usually political reactions. They have their candidate, and they go ballistic over anything said against it.

Gary

I'm no great fan of Wikipedia, but here's a famous English case of loose lips sinking ships: Doing a Ratner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doing_a_Ratner)

Overtly positive hype for anything just tunes me out, whether it's nationalistic or corporate. I can see how some people would stay engaged with this type of promotion, though doubt that's the cause of most of the anti-Sony banter to be found on this or other forums. Just as most MS bashing doesn't seem to have it's roots in the latest PR quote. A certain group of individuals just hate these companies, regardless, and no sane person is going to touch their reasoning.

Isn't doing a Ratner the opposite of positive hype? Overtly positive spin for one side and/or negative spin about the competition, isn't the same thing.

If someone from Microsoft showed up on here and said "VC-1 is a load of crap", that would be doing a Ratner.

Gary

Good information thread. Makes me wonder tho'. If JP is buying PS3 for BD how does Sony make any money from it? e.g. I can't see anyone spending enough time in front of a TV to support both the game and movie industries.

Isn't doing a Ratner the opposite of positive hype? Overtly positive spin for one side and/or negative spin about the competition, isn't the same thing.
Oh, I agree. It was just the example that sprung to mind with regards to corporate statements negatively impacting the company that utters them. There aren't any occasions of possitive PR that I can think of that have sunk companies. Though occasionally they get slapped on the wrist for essentially lying.

BTW please read this entire page

http://www.hdnowonline.com/Comment_Fatal_Flaw.html

After reading it, please, tell me its no big deal, and that its just testosterone, no big deal, or people are being biased or some such nonsense. If after reading, you think people dont have a legit gripe at Sony, I dont know what else to tell you.

Its one thing to always bash Sony, but to always defend it?

BTW please read this entire page

http://www.hdnowonline.com/Comment_Fatal_Flaw.html

After reading it, please, tell me its no big deal, and that its just testosterone, no big deal, or people are being biased or some such nonsense. If after reading, you think people dont have a legit gripe at Sony, I dont know what else to tell you.

Its one thing to always bash Sony, but to always defend it?
You've gotta be kidding me... And here I was hoping you were more than just another one note wonder. :(

Please take the Sony hating along with the MS hating and all the other products of an unstable mentality to somewhere that cares. You've just jumped the shark.

BTW please read this entire page

http://www.hdnowonline.com/Comment_Fatal_Flaw.html

After reading it, please, tell me its no big deal, and that its just testosterone, no big deal, or people are being biased or some such nonsense. If after reading, you think people dont have a legit gripe at Sony, I dont know what else to tell you.

Its one thing to always bash Sony, but to always defend it?

You do realize that site is owned and operated by rdjam, right? How does his site hold anymore credibility than what he posts on here?

Gary

You do realize that site is owned and operated by rdjam, right? How does his site hold anymore credibility than what he posts on here?

Gary

Really? Wow ... that certainly explains a lot.

I suspect he's more than just a fan. Though these things are difficult to prove.

You've gotta be kidding me... And here I was hoping you were more than just another one note wonder. :(

Please take the Sony hating along with the MS hating and all the other products of an unstable mentality to somewhere that cares. You've just jumped the shark.

Ahh struck a nerve eh Issac? You make me happy!

P.S. Who is RDJAM? Am a noob here, have no idea

P.S.S. Rather than name call or attack the source, dispute it instead.

It would also be interesting to know if mods/admins check members ip addresses to ensure they don't post multiple accounts.

P.S. Who is RDJAM? Am a noob here, have no idea

Search his post history here.

And read his article on Muslix being an attempt by the BDA to steal steam away from HD DVD pre-CES. It'll lend some insight into the mind of rdjam.

"hdnowonline" has all the credibility of a slanted tabloid.

It would also be interesting to know if mods/admins check members ip addresses to ensure they don't post multiple accounts.

Now your paranoid LOL

Issac, you continue to entertain me LOL

Search his post history here.

And read his article on Muslix being an attempt by the BDA to steal steam away from HD DVD pre-CES. It'll lend some insight into the mind of rdjam.

Fair enough, I will. I am pretty fair. and if he did say that, sounds stupid.

P.S.S. Rather than name call or attack the source, dispute it instead.
Sigh... re-read the thread title. If you think I'm angry, and that thought fills you with joy, then have at it. You have my (tired) pity.

Sigh... re-read the thread title. If you think I'm angry, and that thought fills you with joy, then have at it. You have my (tired) pity.

LOL I dont need anything from you. Are all Brits uptight? relax!

We are all guilty of going off topic. Actually, all threads have this nasty habbit.

Come on man, what a company says or does has a lot to do with it. Are you telling me what a company says or does should not effect a product decision? Remember what happend to companies that were found to use child labor in other countries? What happend? people stopped buying the products they made.

So tell me, lets say you find that Sony knowingly dumps chemicals into a small stream used by a poor town, and people keep getting cancer. Your telling me the value being offered is more important? Your a sick man.

Granted, thats an extreme example, but those kinds of things have and will continue to happen. So, anywhere from dumb statements, to criminal acts affects business. Not sure what business you run, but I am sure you wont get far mouthing off to customers.

I find it odd you are so anti-Sony, yet don't seem to have a beef with Microsoft?

Japanese always seem to form a solid group, so together they decided that Blu-ray should win the format war so they don't waste their money on a useless format.
Basically they're avoiding the war, pretty smart I'd say.

Good information thread. Makes me wonder tho'. If JP is buying PS3 for BD how does Sony make any money from it? e.g. I can't see anyone spending enough time in front of a TV to support both the game and movie industries.
I retract this (Re good info)

I find it odd you are so anti-Sony, yet don't seem to have a beef with Microsoft?

Your attempt at trying to imply I am biased has failed. This thread was dealing with Sony in Japan, not MS. Start an MS thread, and see how much fun I have with them to.

Yes this thread was beat to death, but I still feel the popularity of Sony in Japan has just as much to do with loyalty to a home country brand, than just simple "value" of a product.

What still baffles me is the content issues. I have heard BD fans say "HDDVD is over, its the content stupid" Why would this not apply to the console wars? 360 has the content, no one can dispute that. So, why does the PS3 prevail in Japan then? As stated by someone else, probably the value, BD+games. But from a gamer perspective, why PS3? Im not trying to start a fight here, Im just a little confused. If the PS3 had NO bd player,would it still prevail in Japan? Heck, would BD even survive without the PS3? I can tell you right now, I only use the PS3 for movies at the moment, the games stink, and Im a pretty hard gamer.

What still baffles me is the content issues. I have heard BD fans say "HDDVD is over, its the content stupid" Why would this not apply to the console wars? 360 has the content, no one can dispute that. So, why does the PS3 prevail in Japan then? As stated by someone else, probably the value, BD+games. But from a gamer perspective, why PS3? Im not trying to start a fight here, Im just a little confused. If the PS3 had NO bd player,would it still prevail in Japan? Heck, would BD even survive without the PS3? I can tell you right now, I only use the PS3 for movies at the moment, the games stink, and Im a pretty hard gamer.

The availability of content is indeed a key factor in the console wars. The problem is that you're assuming that the HD-DVD content that you're enjoying in the U.S. is equally accessible in the rest of the world. It's not. HD-DVD discs are extremely difficult to find anywhere in Japan. For the most part, you have to go online to find any decent selection of HD-DVD discs. I can walk into any major electronics or video store within 8 minutes of my home and find a selection of Blu-ray movies. So is the lack of availability of HD-DVD discs due to the unpopularity of HD-DVD players, or are HD-DVD players unpopular because HD-DVD discs are impossible to find? I have no idea. All I can tell you is that's the way it is at this moment in time and there are no signs that it's going to change anytime soon. People who buy the PS3 here know that the GAME content will come in time (even you have to admit that) and the BD movie content is already here. On the other hand, buying the XBox 360 guarantees you immediate access to more games, but to assume that a big selection of HD-DVD movies is a given is a stretch for even the most optimistic consumer given the present circumstances here.

This is why I've repeatedly stated that you CANNOT interpret Blu-ray's success based on your consumer experiences in the U.S. Nor can you assume that Japanese consumers look at the PS3 the same way that you do. Most of the people on this forum who dismiss the PS3 do so because they think of it as a GAME device that happens to play BD movies. That's YOUR interpretation of it's functionality based on a very western attitude towards consumer products. I was born and raised in America so I understand how you feel. We often think that combining two products into one implies a compromise of some sort. That a machine can't be good at one thing without sacrificing it's ability to do another. That's why we have separate washing machines and dryers, microwave and conventional ovens, and VHS recorders and DVD players. In most Japanese homes, these everyday things are combined into single units and they don't even think twice about it. They don't look at their oven and say "damn, this is a great microwave, but it sucks as an oven. They like it BECAUSE it's a microwave AND an oven. The fact that they may reheat leftovers more often than they bake cakes doesn't make the oven component any less appreciated. When the time comes for them to do some baking, they know it will serve it's purpose. Why should they think any differently regarding a PS3?

I know you've stated that you have a Japanese girlfriend. If you have a chance ask her about these things and see what she says. I'd be interested to hear what her perspective is. Better yet, if you ever have a chance to accompany her on a trip home, please do so. I think it will be an eye-opening experience for you.

The availability of content is indeed a key factor in the console wars. The problem is that you're assuming that the HD-DVD content that you're enjoying in the U.S. is equally accessible in the rest of the world. It's not. HD-DVD discs are extremely difficult to find anywhere in Japan. For the most part, you have to go online to find any decent selection of HD-DVD discs. I can walk into any major electronics or video store within 8 minutes of my home and find a selection of Blu-ray movies. So is the lack of availability of HD-DVD discs due to the unpopularity of HD-DVD players, or are HD-DVD players unpopular because HD-DVD discs are impossible to find? I have no idea. All I can tell you is that's the way it is at this moment in time and there are no signs that it's going to change anytime soon. People who buy the PS3 here know that the GAME content will come in time (even you have to admit that) and the BD movie content is already here. On the other hand, buying the XBox 360 guarantees you immediate access to more games, but to assume that a big selection of HD-DVD movies is a given is a stretch for even the most optimistic consumer given the present circumstances here.

This is why I've repeatedly stated that you CANNOT interpret Blu-ray's success based on your consumer experiences in the U.S. Nor can you assume that Japanese consumers look at the PS3 the same way that you do. Most of the people on this forum who dismiss the PS3 do so because they think of it as a GAME device that happens to play BD movies. That's YOUR interpretation of it's functionality based on a very western attitude towards consumer products. I was born and raised in America so I understand how you feel. We often think that combining two products into one implies a compromise of some sort. That a machine can't be good at one thing without sacrificing it's ability to do another. That's why we have separate washing machines and dryers, microwave and conventional ovens, and VHS recorders and DVD players. In most Japanese homes, these everyday things are combined into single units and they don't even think twice about it. They don't look at their oven and say "damn, this is a great microwave, but it sucks as an oven. They like it BECAUSE it's a microwave AND an oven. The fact that they may reheat leftovers more often than they bake cakes doesn't make the oven component any less appreciated. When the time comes for them to do some baking, they know it will serve it's purpose. Why should they think any differently regarding a PS3?

I know you've stated that you have a Japanese girlfriend. If you have a chance ask her about these things and see what she says. I'd be interested to hear what her perspective is. Better yet, if you ever have a chance to accompany her on a trip home, please do so. I think it will be an eye-opening experience for you.

Good points indeed, good post.

My last post however was slanted toward gaming. I was wondering if it was about content, why not get a 360? In fact hell, do what I did, I own a PS3 and 360. In Japan, is dual ownership huge? Im guessing no.

I still find it hard to beleive that "national pride" has nothing to do with what brand is chosen(Mind you, I am only saying it is a factor, not the only factor). Others here have been flippant, or very dissmisive of this idea. If I have to hear my girlfriends family and friends mention the evil MS empire again, I'm going to scream LOL :D

There is only one reason why BD is more popular. IMHO. To go against Sony and Matsushita would be considered a national shame. Nothing wrong with that attitude. The same respect that American have for their military, the Japanese have for their CE and auto manufacturers. It is seen as the source of their worldwide respect and they owe them much - right or wrong!

Therefore, stores won't carry HD DVD and people won't buy it. It's xbox story all over again....

So content and price and everything else is immeterial. BD wil win in Japan because it is inherently seen as more Japanese than HD DVD. Perhaps Toshiba will be tried for treason (in the court of public opinion) and banished for collaborating with the enemy :)

Good points indeed, good post.

My last post however was slanted toward gaming. I was wondering if it was about content, why not get a 360? In fact hell, do what I did, I own a PS3 and 360. In Japan, is dual ownership huge? Im guessing no.

I still find it hard to beleive that "national pride" has nothing to do with what brand is chosen(Mind you, I am only saying it is a factor, not the only factor). Others here have been flippant, or very dissmisive of this idea. If I have to hear my girlfriends family and friends mention the evil MS empire again, I'm going to scream LOL :D

Oh, I have no doubt that rooting for the "home team" is a contributing factor. In a sense, Sony helped put Japan's electronic industry on the world map with Trinitron TVs, Betamax and Walkmen. And there is still some appreciation of that fact by the mainstream public, despite some major missteps that the company has made in recent years. But as in the case of the luxury car analogy that I made earlier regarding the relative popularity of BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, the Japanese are capable of putting national pride on the back burner if they perceive that there's a good enough reason. The fact that, unlike Beta, Blu-ray has the support of many other CE heavy hitters helps to reasure local consumers that (for the Japanese market at least) Blu-ray is the best choice. I've spoken to quite a few Japanese gadget geeks, and the fact that ONLY Toshiba makes an HD-DVD deck makes a lot of them uncomfortable.

In re-reading your original post I see that I misinterpreted your meaning. But in a way, my reply above still applies if we accept that a large number of Japanese buyers interpret content for the PS3 to be "anything that can be played on it" rather than just games. I think a lot of buyers want it to be BOTH a great game platform and next-generation movie player. So given the weakness of the HD-DVD format in Japan at this time, consumers see the PS3 as having the best shot at fulfilling this ideal. I'm sure the XBox 360 and HD-DVD add-on make an effective system, but with the current lack of HD-DVD software here, it's like selling a Honda automobile back in the U.S. that only comes with a MiniDisc car stereo that can't be replaced. That same car would have no problem selling in Japan, but it would probably be a pretty hard sell over there.

Therefore, stores won't carry HD DVD and people won't buy it. It's xbox story all over again....

Availability had nothing to do with the slow sales of either the Xbox or Xbox 360. I've been here for the introduction of both platforms and you could find them at any major CE retailer and even more easily online. The same holds true for HD-DVD. I can find the players/recorders just fine. It's the software that's hard to get. I have a hard time believing that it's a conspiracy against the format itself on the part of retailers. I mean, why waste precious (and I do mean PRECIOUS) floorspace on the dedicated HD-DVD hardware displays but not support the software in the same store? At my local BIC Camera store, the Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray displays are right next to the Toshiba HD-DVD display. Yet if you go up to the software department, you can only find Blu-ray movies. There's something else going on that's causing this disconnect, but I don't know what it is.

Oh, I have no doubt that rooting for the "home team" is a contributing factor. In a sense, Sony helped put Japan's electronic industry on the world map with Trinitron TVs, Betamax and Walkmen. And there is still some appreciation of that fact by the mainstream public, despite some major missteps that the company has made in recent years. But as in the case of the luxury car analogy that I made earlier regarding the relative popularity of BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, the Japanese are capable of putting national pride on the back burner if they perceive that there's a good enough reason. The fact that, unlike Beta, Blu-ray has the support of many other CE heavy hitters helps to reasure local consumers that (for the Japanese market at least) Blu-ray is the best choice. I've spoken to quite a few Japanese gadget geeks, and the fact that ONLY Toshiba makes an HD-DVD deck makes a lot of them uncomfortable.

In re-reading your original post I see that I misinterpreted your meaning. But in a way, my reply above still applies if we accept that a large number of Japanese buyers interpret content for the PS3 to be "anything that can be played on it" rather than just games. I think a lot of buyers want it to be BOTH a great game platform and next-generation movie player. So given the weakness of the HD-DVD format in Japan at this time, consumers see the PS3 as having the best shot at fulfilling this ideal. I'm sure the XBox 360 and HD-DVD add-on make an effective system, but with the current lack of HD-DVD software here, it's like selling a Honda automobile back in the U.S. that only comes with a MiniDisc car stereo that can't be replaced. That same car would have no problem selling in Japan, but it would probably be a pretty hard sell over there.

Honda with mini disc NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :eek: :p

Availability had nothing to do with the slow sales of either the Xbox or Xbox 360. I've been here for the introduction of both platforms and you could find them at any major CE retailer and even more easily online. The same holds true for HD-DVD. I can find the players/recorders just fine. It's the software that's hard to get. I have a hard time believing that it's a conspiracy against the format itself on the part of retailers. I mean, why waste precious (and I do mean PRECIOUS) floorspace on the dedicated HD-DVD hardware displays but not support the software in the same store? At my local BIC Camera store, the Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray displays are right next to the Toshiba HD-DVD display. Yet if you go up to the software department, you can only find Blu-ray movies. There's something else going on that's causing this disconnect, but I don't know what it is.

Thanks for posting! It's refreshing to read some first-hand concrete information on the Japanese market.

Availability had nothing to do with the slow sales of either the Xbox or Xbox 360. I've been here for the introduction of both platforms and you could find them at any major CE retailer and even more easily online. The same holds true for HD-DVD. I can find the players/recorders just fine. It's the software that's hard to get. I have a hard time believing that it's a conspiracy against the format itself on the part of retailers. I mean, why waste precious (and I do mean PRECIOUS) floorspace on the dedicated HD-DVD hardware displays but not support the software in the same store? At my local BIC Camera store, the Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray displays are right next to the Toshiba HD-DVD display. Yet if you go up to the software department, you can only find Blu-ray movies. There's something else going on that's causing this disconnect, but I don't know what it is.


Are Warner, Universal and Paramount releasing HD DVD titles in Japan, or is it mainly Toshiba?

Why would software be any harder to get in Japan (if it is being released) than in the US? I get the feeling there is something fishy going on there ;)

Your attempt at trying to imply I am biased has failed. This thread was dealing with Sony in Japan, not MS. Start an MS thread, and see how much fun I have with them to.

Yes this thread was beat to death, but I still feel the popularity of Sony in Japan has just as much to do with loyalty to a home country brand, than just simple "value" of a product.

What still baffles me is the content issues. I have heard BD fans say "HDDVD is over, its the content stupid" Why would this not apply to the console wars? 360 has the content, no one can dispute that. So, why does the PS3 prevail in Japan then? You talk as if Xbox 360 didn't fail in Japn :eek: Anyway, stop associating this thread with only Sony. Blu-ray is supported by all consumer electronics manufacturers except for Toshiba.

You talk as if Xbox 360 didn't fail in Japn :eek: Anyway, stop associating this thread with only Sony. Blu-ray is supported by all consumer electronics manufacturers except for Toshiba.

Find a thread that says XBOX is kicking butt in Japan. I never said it was doing well.

Also, you cant have your cake and eat it to. What dominates many threads here? PS3 PS3 PS3 PS3, and now I need to stop associating the thread with Sony? PS3 will be the best selling BD. How can it not be? Games and a BD is a bargain.

Be honest with yourself, how would BD be doing without the PS3? So, BD and Sony will forever be tied at the hip.

You could say the sheeps of America will support anything Microsoft. ;)
Don't really know why your in this thread. Just by looking at your username anyone can tell your a troll trying to stir up controversy. You go on and drive your big bad Chevy/Ford, I'm contempt with any Honda/Toyota ANY day.

Or more like the "Sheeps of the world" with Microsoft :D

xboxboi you have really no idea of whats happening in japan or how business work over there.

xbox failure in japan has nothing to do with racism towards american products. find me a country that buys that many american products then japan and let me know.

Apple has huge succes here. Apple is american right?

american clothes, rap culture is very big in japan as well. again an american culture. take that with mac donalds, KFc fry chicken etc on every corner. and you would be amazed how much pro USa, japan is.

so instead of going that Japanese prefer products from japan instead of the usa. do a little research.

why does the xbox fail in japan. it is very obvious. the hardware is junk. almost no software that is made for the japanese audiance. just because USA likes FPS games. doesnt mean Japanese like them. and blue dragon did so so, because it also played like a beta.

if you want to succeed in Japan you have to bring a quality product. as we know from so many people experience, the xbox360 aint. japanese people arent stupid on that part.

they pay big money, but they also expect quality. the ps3 as hardware is an incredible machine. expensive? yes it is. but it is also quality. and for real succes great quality and a cheap price is even better. nintendo wii is a good example of that.

but overall quality is the most important item in Japan. it reigns all. it is maybe the only country in the world where quality is more important then price.

microsoft can easily make a succes with a xbox in Japan, if they create a truelly magnificent machine and a better design as well.

microsoft should just look at apple. why does apple have such a huge succes in japan.

easy and good working software. great quality hardware. and very good looking designs.

about toshiba in japan. it is something true they are seen as the black sheep in this format war in Japan by japanese people.

and with the recently SED tv debacle it doesnt make it any better. but that has nothing to do with Japanese people. that has all to do with Toshiba themselfs.

Yeah. Whatever. Japanese care about quality, whereas Americans don't. Did you pick that up from Japan?

What's Apples' market share of the ipod in Japan v. Sonys' network walkman series? How does that compare to the US share? How does Samsung do in the Japanese market? That should shed some light on whether the Japanese are Nationalistic in their preferences...

Toshiba is hated, not because their product sucks, but because they have taken a stand against the Japanese establishment.

As far a quality. Our company decided around a year and a half ago to issues Sony Vaio Notebooks to all Sales and marketing folks. These were nice sleek T Series machines. However, we had so many problems and Sony service was so poor that we went back to using our regular Dells. So, yes. they had good styling, and they were expensive. But superior quality to US hardware? No. This is a myth, just like those who believe Bose make the best speakers. Is Bose popular in Japan BTW?
OTOH, I'm on my way to NYC right now to close a major software deal with a Japanese Bank :)

xboxboi you have really no idea of whats happening in japan or how business work over there.

xbox failure in japan has nothing to do with racism towards american products. find me a country that buys that many american products then japan and let me know.

Apple has huge succes here. Apple is american right?

american clothes, rap culture is very big in japan as well. again an american culture. take that with mac donalds, KFc fry chicken etc on every corner. and you would be amazed how much pro USa, japan is.

so instead of going that Japanese prefer products from japan instead of the usa. do a little research.

why does the xbox fail in japan. it is very obvious. the hardware is junk. almost no software that is made for the japanese audiance. just because USA likes FPS games. doesnt mean Japanese like them. and blue dragon did so so, because it also played like a beta.

if you want to succeed in Japan you have to bring a quality product. as we know from so many people experience, the xbox360 aint. japanese people arent stupid on that part.

they pay big money, but they also expect quality. the ps3 as hardware is an incredible machine. expensive? yes it is. but it is also quality. and for real succes great quality and a cheap price is even better. nintendo wii is a good example of that.

but overall quality is the most important item in Japan. it reigns all. it is maybe the only country in the world where quality is more important then price.

microsoft can easily make a succes with a xbox in Japan, if they create a truelly magnificent machine and a better design as well.

microsoft should just look at apple. why does apple have such a huge succes in japan.

easy and good working software. great quality hardware. and very good looking designs.

about toshiba in japan. it is something true they are seen as the black sheep in this format war in Japan by japanese people.

and with the recently SED tv debacle it doesnt make it any better. but that has nothing to do with Japanese people. that has all to do with Toshiba themselfs.

Ok, I'll sound like an ignorant American here, but man Japanese games blow! I am in Europe right now, and no one likes Japanese games here either. I know its subjective, but really, Japanese have a strange taste only they understand. Now dont freak out, not ALL the games stink, but sheesh!(yes ive tried to play them over and over, trying to force myself)

Ok, I'll sound like an ignorant American here, but man Japanese games blow! I am in Europe right now, and no one likes Japanese games here either. I know its subjective, but really, Japanese have a strange taste only they understand. Now dont freak out, not ALL the games stink, but sheesh!(yes ive tried to play them over and over, trying to force myself)

The thing is, MS did not account for JPN tastes when they made games on the original Xbox. Just because we in EU and you guys in NA don't like the games, does not mean MS should not bother with them, they learnt a bit this time and made Blue- Dragon (which I hear is not too good). If Sony took the same view as MS and only catered for their home market, then they would deserve to have crappy sales, fortunately the PS has brought EU great titles such as Pro Evo/Winning Eleven, and NA good titles as well.

MS don't get gaming IMO they keep pumping out the FPS like nobodies business and then complain that EU/JPN are anti-American in their purchasing, it is not true, the thing is, we don't like FPS that much!

The thing is, MS did not account for JPN tastes when they made games on the original Xbox. Just because we in EU and you guys in NA don't like the games, does not mean MS should not bother with them, they learnt a bit this time and made Blue- Dragon (which I hear is not too good). If Sony took the same view as MS and only catered for their home market, then they would deserve to have crappy sales, fortunately the PS has brought EU great titles such as Pro Evo/Winning Eleven, and NA good titles as well.

MS don't get gaming IMO they keep pumping out the FPS like nobodies business and then complain that EU/JPN are anti-American in their purchasing, it is not true, the thing is, we don't like FPS that much!

How the heck cant you like Gears of War? :D

Also cant blame MS too much, have to blame publishers to.

Then again many publishers know USA is the number one market as well. They may spend all the money on an American friendly title first. Im not sure, I dont pretend to know how publishing works.

What's Apples' market share of the ipod in Japan v. Sonys' network walkman series? How does that compare to the US share? How does Samsung do in the Japanese market? That should shed some light on whether the Japanese are Nationalistic in their preferences...

Last year, iPod had 54% of the Japanese MP3 player market.

http://www.itworld.com/Tech/5051/060420appleipod/

So as it applies to MP3 players, nationalism doesn't seem to be leading the way.

The young Japanese individual doesn't care where a product originates, they just care that it be fashionable and perceived as cool. Is a Japanese purse maker going to out-class Louis Vuitton in Japan anytime soon? No.

On the topic of Samsmung, in Japan right now, many things Korean are presently considered 'cool,' so I'm sure if Samsung is doing well or poorly, it does not stem from their nationality alone. The Japanese consumer electronics sector is twice as competetive and vibrant as the US' to boot, which is another factor to consider. Nevertheless though, in Samsung's earnings reports, Japan clearly represents a large enough market of their goods for them to highlight specifically, so they can't be completely marginalized either. If you are an American and/or other company trying to break into Japan, then obviously it's not enough to bring 'as good' as the domestic options - you have to bring better. When companies do, they succeed (like Apple).

It's the same anywhere; domestic will naturally default victorious unless the newcomer offers something more. The US became a fan of Japanese cars and electronics not because of lack of US 'nationalism' (nationalism is a terrible thing IMO by the way), but because a superior value proposition was presented.

How the hec cant you like Gears of War? :D

Gears is fine, gets a bit boring after an hour or so, but that's it though, I don't want to buy endless FPS, and that is all I ever see on the X360. Nothing like Final Fantasy, Ico, God of War, DMC; only Oblivion, which is OK, but I had that on the PC anyway. The PS3 has its FPS as well as all of these games, so for us in EU it is a much better deal to buy a PS3 than X360 as there are more games aimed at us on it.

PS3 will rule in EU/JPN, but it will only ever be second best in NA.

xbox failure in japan has nothing to do with racism towards american products. find me a country that buys that many american products then japan and let me know
Yes.............but to a certain extent the Japanese are very loyal to "home grown" products, correct? Meaning I can't remember the last time I talked to a Japanese person here who drove a Ford/GM. NOTE - I don't view this as a negative, if Americans did the same some of our industries would be the better for it.

In most Japanese homes, these everyday things are combined into single units and they don't even think twice about it.
Aren't space constraints a factor? Given the average available space I would think combined devices would be much more necessary.

why does the xbox fail in japan. it is very obvious. the hardware is junk.....
I'll agree with the software portion but this part is just plain wrong. The PS3 is a good media decoder, as a gaming platform the architecture flat out sucks. While that may very well be the overwhelming feeling in Japan "xbox is junk" but they'd be 100% wrong on that count..................but it is irrelevant to the thread :)

Gears is fine, gets a bit boring after an hour or so, but that's it though, I don't want to buy endless FPS, and that is all I ever see on the X360. Nothing like Final Fantasy, Ico, God of War, DMC; only Oblivion, which is OK, but I had that on the PC anyway. The PS3 has its FPS as well as all of these games, so for us in EU it is a much better deal to buy a PS3 than X360 as there are more games aimed at us on it.

PS3 will rule in EU/JPN, but it will only ever be second best in NA.

JPN yes, but no way I agree with the EU. I am there now, and 360 seems to be well liked.

People want whats out now, not what is promised.

The Apple iPod has been around for several years now and I would bet Apples's share in Japan is way lower than it is in the US. So, what is Sonys' share there? Pretty close to Apple?

I agree that there are some products Japanese companies do better than the US and vise versa. The poster who said that US products fail in Japan because they are crap, is totally wrong. Top US companies make high quality products, often unmatched by the Japanese for all types of AV equipment. So, the assertion that US loves low quality is a myth perpetuated by unfortunately many - including Americans.

The auto industry is an example of where Japanese companies have done well, but US companies have done very wel when it comes to computer hardware and both PS3 and xbox are more computer like rather than DVD players. The processors for both are made by American companies....

If the xbox had a made by Panny or Sony it would sell 10x as many units as they do today....that is the crux about cracking the Japanese market.

JPN yes, but no way I agree with the EU. I am there now, and 360 seems to be well liked.

People want whats out now, not what is promised.

I live in EU, the only place it is even half way popular in the UK, where I live, on the mainland it is an abject failure, 400m people and only 1.4-1.7m sold, not great numbers whichever way you look at them.

For you second statement you have to look at broadcast HD, broadcasters here in EU waited for AVC to be finalised before pumping HD out. In NA they were too impatient and now they want to switch to AVC but it is difficult as a lot of people don't have complaint decoders, similarly people here are not too bothered by the wait for the PS3, I for one am not, yes I bought an X360, but it is up for sale to fund my PS3 purchase. I think that is the difference between us in EU and our counterparts on the other side of the Atlantic; we are more patient, the same holds true with JPN, if it means waiting for 6-12 months more, but you will get a better product, then wait for it, don't get something inferior just because it is available (I am not in anyway insinuating that the X360 is inferior to the PS3, I am speaking in more general terms).

Here's an article even more recent than the one I previously gave that pegged Apple's MP3 player market in Japan at 54%; this one (from October) puts Sony's marketshare in Japan at 20%.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/12/business/main2086060.shtml

I completely disagree that if XBox had been made by Sony or Panasonic it would have done well; XBox simply didn't have any games, and was already stigmitized beyond belief by the time it could have gotten any. 360 had a rough start, but when the games come, opinions start to thaw. Blue Dragon did extremely well, considering the platform.

Anyway it's simply the case that certain economies tend to focus on certain things in which they become increasingly specialized. The Japanese, similar to fashion, love PC technology as well... and as you mentioned US companies lead in that space (in terms of AMD and Intel), and certainly the Japanese don't begrudge them sales for being American. IBM does make the chips for all three (Nintendo included remember), but Cell is not some IBM solo project let's remember. A lot of effort (and design decision) was contributed by both Sony and Toshiba, and Kutaragi was the project head. Some of those contributions have been obscured in English media, which center on IBMs role, but if you read some of the better Japanese tech media translations, you gain a window into just how involved Sony and Toshiba were.

Plaz, you really can't judge the quality of CE brands that ship products to both the US and Japan in the same way, because Japanese companies put far more QC into their Japanese products (and charge extra), while catering to the American discount market with lower QC, because we tolerate a higher level of junk in exchange for a higher failure rate. This is pretty well known, and there are actually companies whose entire business is to import Japanese CE products to the US or Enurope (overwriting them with English language software, etc. in the process) and charging a hefty premium because of this.

For anyone who has spent any amount of time in Japan, there can be little doubt that the Japanese on average place a far higher premium on quality than American consumers do, and are willing to pay for it.

The only way a Sony/Panasonic Xbox 360 would have sold better is if those companies had made a higher quality prodcts (e.g. better build quality) and ensured more Japan-oriented games wre available early one. Otherwise, slap "Sony" on the side of the current console and it would be just as dissmal of a failure.

And for the person who said the Japanese have weird tastes; that's certainly true if "wierd" equals "very different from European or North American". Check out kabuki theater if you want to see how different even the basic narrative structure of Japan is from the Western European version. I like it, but I have a hard time following it.

Yes.............but to a certain extent the Japanese are very loyal to "home grown" products, correct? Meaning I can't remember the last time I talked to a Japanese person here who drove a Ford/GM. NOTE - I don't view this as a negative, if Americans did the same some of our industries would be the better for it.

Let's be honest here. When it comes to automobiles that the Japanese sell a lot of (ie: family sedans, compact cars), the american auto industry isn't close. I'd say the only reason people buy an american car is price, and because of the "buy american" mentality, not quality. Seriously, does anyone think a Chevy Malibu is better than a Honda Accord?

Let's be honest here. When it comes to automobiles that the Japanese sell a lot of (ie: family sedans, compact cars), the american auto industry isn't close. I'd say the only reason people buy an american car is price, and because of the "buy american" mentality, not quality. Seriously, does anyone think a Chevy Malibu is better than a Honda Accord?
But then we'd get waaaayy off topic & start to discus the ignorance of the American consumer. "not even close" is a load of crap - might try the Ford Fusion, hands down better than the Accord or Camry in any relevant category.

But that's off topic :)

"Better" is a dangerous word, as it is open to too much subjectivity. I think American carmakers have made up a lot of ground in terms of build quality and repair track records. But there's something beyond that, that even now they can't master. Take the same Ford Fusion example - is it 'better' than the Accord? Maybe. But do you want one over an Accord? Not me. The car doesn't "do it" for me in relation to its competition, and I suspect, not for the majority of consumers shopping in that segment either.

"do it" for me
Subjective. Much like Honda's 85th makeover of their Passat copy w/ a playskool interior doesn't do it for me, nor does Toyota "brand new" copy of a 5 series aka the Camry do it for me either (could have at least skipped copying the butt ugly trunk lid).

Ride, handling, construction, size, cargo capactity - objective.

(disclaimer - don't own any of 'em :D )

But we digress............my only real point was that I think it's fine/okay/good that the Japanese would support a format put forward primarily by Japanese companies.

But we digress............my only real point was that I think it's fine/okay/good that the Japanese would support a format put forward primarily by Japanese companies.

And my point is that consumers - yes, even in Japan - make decisions based on plenty of criteria that go beyond nationalism.

Aren't space constraints a factor? Given the average available space I would think combined devices would be much more necessary.

Space constraints definitely play a part. It's just more efficient to have devices that do more than one thing here. But that being said, the expectations of quality are NOT compromised because of this limitation. In fact, I can think of very few multi-function Japanese CE products that are less than superb at performing their multiple tasks. In our home, combination devices that we own include washer/dryer, oven/microwave, air conditioner/heater, HDD/DVD recorder and rice cooker/warmer. Each one of them performs their tasks as well or better than any individual component I've ever owned back in the States. My wife often says that except for the bigger size, there is nothing about our appliances back home that she prefers over their Japanese counterparts.

Japanese consumers expect a lot from their consumer electronics and the companies that make them, and customer service for defective merchandise is almost freakish by American standards. When my Sanyo Z2 developed a power supply problem two years ago (out of warranty), Sanyo sent a technician to my home at 7:30 in the EVENING because it was the only time I could be home to meet him. He showed up exactly on time, but couldn't fix it on site because he lacked the part. He took the PJ with him, repaired it, and delivered it to my home, once again in the evening, and apologized to me for the inconvenience. Compare this to the horror stories of Sanyo PJ service back in the states. If there was even a rumor that the quality of the PS3 was lacking, people here wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Oh, and regarding nationalism and the relative popularity of homegrown vs. imported products. Many Japanese consumers are more than willing to forego national pride for the sake of being cool or stylish. Yes, there aren't a lot of people buying Fords and GMs here, but it's more a reflection of the impression that people here have about the perceived quality of American cars vs. Japanese makes. Yes, today this opinion may be ill-informed, but that's how people here feel. On the other hand, European makes are HIGHLY in demand. As I said in a previous post, if you offer most people here a choice between a Lexus, Mercedes Benz and BMW of equal price, it's almost a sure thing that they'll pass on the Lexus. In fact, Lexus as a brand didn't even exist here until just a couple of years ago. All Lexus models used to be marketed under the Toyota badge. Bringing in the Lexus name is an effort to be more competive with the more popular "luxury" brands. So far, they're having mixed results as far as I can tell. I personally know way more people with BMWs and Benzes than Lexus cars. One of our best friends is a Honda sales manager which means he could get the Japanese equivalent of an Acura at a great price. What does his wife drive? A BMW 325. Some western brands just achieve cult status and this is hard even for local companies to overcome.

The same "cult of popularity" also exists for certain electronics goods. In just a couple of years, the iPod has grown to pretty much dominate the portable player market here. Even Sony is playing catch-up after years of essentially owning the category with Minidisc. It's amazing how rapidly the ubiquitous earbuds hanging from people's heads on my daily commute have changed from black to iPod white. At the gym that I go to, I'd say close to half the people on treadmills, bikes or eliptical trainers who are listening to music are using an Apple product. Sony's trying desperately to regain market share, but they have an uphill battle. They even added built-in electronic noise reduction capability to their newest MP3 player to stand out among its competitors, but if you go to big CE retailers like Yodobashi or BIC Camera, the biggest crowds are always at the iPod section.

Also, ottscay may have a point about the quality of some CE products being different in Japan compared to their U.S. counterparts. Whenever I go home to the States, I always check out Best Buy and CompUSA to do some comparison shopping. I'm constantly surprised at the difference in laptop computer offerings by Japanese manufacturers in the U.S. compared to Japan. There are definitely a lot of "Domestic Market" only computers here that I never see outside Japan. A lot of people I work with own Sony VAIO laptops for their personal use and they swear by them (most of our work PCs are Fujitsu or NEC). My personal laptop is a pre-Lenovo IBM ThinkPad, but I'm seriously giving the Sony some thought when I'm ready to upgrade.

xboxboi you have really no idea of whats happening in japan or how business work over there. I do. Whale hunting is a HUGE business in Japan. Why are they doing that knowing that whale is in the verge of extinction?

why does the xbox fail in japan. it is very obvious. the hardware is junk. almost no software that is made for the japanese audiance. just because USA likes FPS games. doesnt mean Japanese like them. and blue dragon did so so, because it also played like a beta. if you want to succeed in Japan you have to bring a quality product. as we know from so many people experience, the xbox360 aint. japanese people arent stupid on that part. :D LMAO . i beg to differ in opinion. "Nationalism" is a great marketing tool.

they pay big money, but they also expect quality. the ps3 as hardware is an incredible machine. expensive? yes it is. but it is also quality. and for real succes great quality and a cheap price is even better. nintendo wii is a good example of that.

but overall quality is the most important item in Japan. it reigns all. it is maybe the only country in the world where quality is more important then price. humming battery song again .. :D

microsoft can easily make a succes with a xbox in Japan, if they create a truelly magnificent machine and a better design as well. easy and good working software. great quality hardware. and very good looking designs.

so .. The PS3 sales is better in Japan because they are plenty of good game software for the japanese market ... :D :D how many PS3 titles are there in the world as compared to the 1yo xbox 360?

about toshiba in japan. it is something true they are seen as the black sheep in this format war in Japan by japanese people. again LMAO .. humming battery song ...

see those in cyan ;)

Why do they support blu-ray??? Because they are smart and already know which format is going to win.....

I love seeing all the hd-dvd fanboys ranting about sony hahahahaha

I do. Whale hunting is a HUGE business in Japan. Why are they doing that knowing that whale is in the verge of extinction?

I don't want to come across as pro-whaling because I absolutely, positively am not. I have never eaten whale meat, even though it's been offered to me (which has created a few awkward social situations over the years). And I actively preach against it whenever the subject comes up. However, although I am anti-whaling, I am also pro-accuracy. And for that reason, I thought I'd provide some facts in response to xboxboi's gross generalization.

Japanese whalers are currently in the middle of their annual whale hunt. They have received permission from the International Whaling Commission (IWC) to kill 850 Antarctic Minke whales this season. These whales will comprise more than 98 percent of their total catch. Over the past 100 years, the Minke whale population has actually grown to the point where the current population is in excess of 934,000. So Japan's quota comes out to about 1/10th of 1 percent. So to say they are hunting whales that are on the verge of extinction doesn't exactly ring true. In xboxboi's defense, Japan's quota does include up to 10 fin whales (all other larger species that include Sperm, Humpback and others). These whales will constitute less than 2 percent of Japan's total catch. BTW, it may interest you to know that Norway had a higher Minke whale quota this season than Japan does.

Once again, My intention is not to defend Japan's whaling industry. I just want to point out that if xboxboi is using Japan's whaling industry as an example of the irrationality of Japanese business decision making, he's building his argument on a fundamentally inaccurate assumption.

Now excuse me while I put on my "He's a whaling supporter" flame suit.

LMAO . i beg to differ in opinion. "Nationalism" is a great marketing tool.

See my post above regarding nationalism and Japanese consumer tendencies.

I'm curious xboxboi, but after reading some of your generalizations about the Japanese I have to ask. Do you personally know any Japanese people (I'm not talking about Japanese-Americans, because I'm one of them and we're a completely different animal). Or have you had any business dealings that would support your views? Because a lot of your comments sound like the common stereotypical westerner's view of Japan and the Japanese that I hear everytime I go home, or whenever I meet "gaikokujin" who are new to Japan. Like most stereoptypes, there's a microscopic seed of truth at the very core, but that seed is vastly outweighed by unsupportable heresay and conjecture.

"he's building his argument on a fundamentally inaccurate assumption. "

lol, and we all know he's never done that before (sarcasm) :eek:

Why do they support blu-ray??? Because they are smart and already know which format is going to win.....

I love seeing all the hd-dvd fanboys ranting about sony hahahahaha

Oh the irony!

Someone with the name ILOVECIRCUITCITY calling someone a fanboy HAHAHA

Hello pot? This is kettle speaking!

The more I learn about Japan, the more I want to live there.

The point about the domestic products being higher quality than those exported blows my mind.

Btw, does that mean japanese-market PS3s are, in some way or form, better than say the HK or US ones?

thanks

The point about the domestic products being higher quality than those exported blows my mind.
Don't let it - near as anyone can tell it's a myth. I have never, ever seen a single survey, web site, or anything else that has shown anything but equal failure rates. This runs the gamut from watches to game consoles - they fail at the same rate even though "myth" would suggest otherwise.

So far, they're having mixed results as far as I can tell.
That's good to hear, thought only Americans were dumb enough to 2x the price for the same car. :D

Some western brands just achieve cult status and this is hard even for local companies to overcome.
Well I'd say that's pretty well "across the board" - same everywhere. Take the mentioned iPod - a simply uni-tasker, nothing special about it at all. It's an MP3 player - special how exactly? Has the same cult status.

And my point is that consumers - yes, even in Japan - make decisions based on plenty of criteria that go beyond nationalism.
I didn't say or imply that nationalism was the only criteria, my point was that everything else being equal it does come into play & it might play more of a factor than for a US consumer.

If there was even a rumor that the quality of the PS3 was lacking, people here wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.
There's no quality issue with the PS3, architecture? That's a whole 'nother can of worms. :)

On the other hand, European makes are HIGHLY in demand. As I said in a previous post, if you offer most people here a choice between a Lexus, Mercedes Benz and BMW of equal price, it's almost a sure thing that they'll pass on the Lexus. In fact, Lexus as a brand didn't even exist here until just a couple of years ago. All Lexus models used to be marketed under the Toyota badge. Bringing in the Lexus name is an effort to be more competive with the more popular "luxury" brands. So far, they're having mixed results as far as I can tell. I personally know way more people with BMWs and Benzes than Lexus cars. One of our best friends is a Honda sales manager which means he could get the Japanese equivalent of an Acura at a great price. What does his wife drive? A BMW 325. Some western brands just achieve cult status and this is hard even for local companies to overcome.


Actually, when I saw Spirited Away I was surprised to see Chihiro's father drive an Audi and wondered why that'd be. :)

I have to, its just fun sometimes.


Why is Blu Ray so much more popular in Japan?

Answer:
Because Blu Ray is Better.

Don't let it - near as anyone can tell it's a myth. I have never, ever seen a single survey, web site, or anything else that has shown anything but equal failure rates. This runs the gamut from watches to game consoles - they fail at the same rate even though "myth" would suggest otherwise.

Wow, you are looking at this wrong. Do you know what the failure rate of the Japanese Camry is? You can't because there isn't one. The Camry is an export model. I have no idea whether the PS3 has a higher failure rate in the U.S. than Japan (and I doubt you do either), but a comparison between the exact same products (which are, after all, frequently built on the same assembly line) is not the same thing as examining the quality of exclusive products shipped to both markets. It's not like American's don't care about quality, but as a whole we place a greater emphasis on price, and this is (not suprisingly, thank you Adam Smith) reflected in the prodcuts that are sold to our market (again, on average).

But, hey, if you don't want to believe it, that's your choice.

grubert, that is no surprise,

i have friends in japan who are japanese who drive saab, volvo, bmw and mercedes.

also i have a friend who owns a harley davidson store in tokyo. he also sells many bikes.

problem is that many people assume that if xbox doesnt sell in japan, it is because japanese are nationlist or racist towards americans or westerns products. and this is very much untrue. but you would only understand that if you have actually lived in Japan like i did.

same as i have lived in corea and china as well. i even lived 1 year in the usa. you can only understand a culture best if you actually live in the country.

Japanese just care in great deal about Quality. that is why you can sell a movie like ghost in the shell 2 for 80 usa dollars on bluray. disney could release a miyasaki movie on bluray for 100 usa dollar. and it would sell like crazy. as long as the quality is top notch. japanese will buy it.

ofcourse of you try to sell snow white from disney as example in the usa or europe on bluray for 100 usa dollar. it wouldnt sell at all. even if the disc is printed in gold :)

and that is the difference.

d3code, have you tried any of the Japanese BD/DVRs? maybe want to pipe in the Universal on BD in Japan (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=791050) thread?

I've been most interested in the Sony BDZ-V9. Really wish they would release that thing in the US, though it's probably a bit out of my price range...

Because it is maybe not true?

Blu-ray was co-developed by Sony, Panasonic and Philips. In fact, some say that Panasonic did more to bring BD to market than Sony.

Gary


That might be true, but I don't think that Panasonic and Phillips would have a prayer without Sony studios and the PS3 in the fight.

That might be true, but I don't think that Panasonic and Phillips would have a prayer without Sony studios and the PS3 in the fight.

BS! FOX and Disney have absolutely nothing to do with Sony. Same as Warner, Paramount and Lionsgate.

BS! FOX and Disney have absolutely nothing to do with Sony. Same as Warner, Paramount and Lionsgate.


Thus why I said, "Sony studios". You know, like: Sony/Columbia/TriStar/MGM Pictures.
Without Sony's studio leverage and the PS3, what do Panny/Matsushita and Phillips have? They have another fringe format on their hands, that's what.

Thus why I said, "Sony studios". You know, like: Sony/Columbia/TriStar/MGM Pictures.
Without Sony's studio leverage and the PS3, what do Panny/Matsushita and Phillips have? They have another fringe format on their hands, that's what.


They have plenty. Do not talk about things you have no clue about. Besides this is off topic. BTW, MGM is distributed by FOX now. The only movies that Sony retained are Bond movies.

Does anyone have estimates on how much Sony has put into BD wrt discs, CELL, PS#s BD drive etc.?

thanks

Wow, you are looking at this wrong. Do you know what the failure rate of the Japanese Camry is? You can't because there isn't one. The Camry is an export model.
Export model? Um, hold up there McFly.....US versions are built here.

And I wasn't talking about dissimilar items, I'm referring to like items. The same items built for sale in Japan AND foe sale overseas. An example, watches directly imported from Japan & only available in Japan as compared to a watch using the same components for sale abroad = the same failure rate. Same goes for electronics, i.e. game consoles = same failure rate. I've never seen a single survey, poll, or other piece of data that says otherwise.....aside from subjective claims.

But, hey, if you don't want to believe it, that's your choice.
Likewise, your call.

Japanese just care in great deal about Quality. that is why you can sell a movie like ghost in the shell 2 for 80 usa dollars on bluray. disney could release a miyasaki movie on bluray for 100 usa dollar. and it would sell like crazy. as long as the quality is top notch. japanese will buy it.
You're right, they're the only consumers on earth who care about quality, they're far more discriminating than anyone else.

They have plenty. Do not talk about things you have no clue about. Besides this is off topic. BTW, MGM is distributed by FOX now. The only movies that Sony retained are Bond movies.


Do not talk about things you have no clue about.


That knife cuts two ways, so I’ll thank you kindly to can your dismissive tone. As for what’s off topic, I can find little in this thread that has been on topic.

And I’ll repeat again:

Without Sony’s backing of the format with movies, players, and the PS3, Bluray would stand little chance of surviving against HD-DVD. It’s highly disingenuous to suggest that Sony isn’t a HUGE player in this battle. Sony has leveraged their game division and their movie studio's to a lesser degree on Bluray being a success. In that respect, they have more invested, and more to win or lose than any of the other Bluray CE’s IMO.

Does anyone know what market share of the following hold in Japan?


DVD

BD-R/-RE

BD

HD-DVD

Do not talk about things you have no clue about.


That knife cuts two ways, so I’ll thank you kindly to can your dismissive tone. As for what’s off topic, I can find little in this thread that has been on topic.

And I’ll repeat again:

Without Sony’s backing of the format with movies, players, and the PS3, Bluray would stand little chance of surviving against HD-DVD. It’s highly disingenuous to suggest that Sony isn’t a HUGE player in this battle. Sony has leveraged their game division and their movie studio's to a lesser degree on Bluray being a success. In that respect, they have more invested, and more to win or lose than any of the other Bluray CE’s IMO.

At least you admitted that it your opinion which has nothing to with reality.

At least you admitted that it your opinion which has nothing to with reality.


Attack the premise, not the poster. If you can't offer anything substantive in rebuttal then kindly just shut up.

BS! FOX and Disney have absolutely nothing to do with Sony. Same as Warner, Paramount and Lionsgate.

The word, 'Blu ray' and the Blu Ray logo belong to Sony. So what more do you want?

Export model? Um, hold up there McFly.....US versions are built here.

Now they are. They weren't always.

And I wasn't talking about dissimilar items, I'm referring to like items.

Yeah, but I was. And you were implying that you had a rebuttal to my post.

You're right, they're the only consumers on earth who care about quality, they're far more discriminating than anyone else.

Ah, the good old reducto ad absurdum, usually a last resort when facts fail. No one, certainly not I, was arguing that the Japanese are the only ones that care about quality, or tha Americans don't (in fact, I explicitly said otherwise). It's a continuum, and obviously there is a great deal of overlap at the level of individual consumers. None the less, for first world countries Japan and the U.S. are about as far apart as cultures get on whether to value quality more than price, and it's apparent from even a cursory visit to Japan.

This isn't a promotion nor an attack of either culture, it's just the way things shake out.

The word, 'Blu ray' and the Blu Ray logo belong to Sony. So what more do you want?


Logo is owned by BDA not Sony.

If you have proof, then post it. If not it's just a lie.

Logo is owned by BDA not Sony.

If you have proof, then post it. If not it's just a lie.

Also, why would anyone own the word "Blu ray" when the correct title is "Blu-ray Disc". (The same goes for those who add a hyphen to "HD DVD", there isn't one)

Sony is not the biggest behind Blu-ray. Panasonic is. They hold the most patents, own the biggest replication plant in California and get the most royalties from BDA with Pioneer. Sony gets less than them.

I do not like Sony myself but these lies have to stop.

Care to tell me where this info comes. I have been searching the web and all I can find is Sony, Sony and SOny behind blu-ray :)

Care to tell me where this info comes. I have been searching the web and all I can find is Sony, Sony and SOny behind blu-ray :)

It seems that the blogging world has a vendetta against Sony.

Care to tell me where this info comes. I have been searching the web and all I can find is Sony, Sony and SOny behind blu-ray :)They love Sony like their daddy.

Thus why I said, "Sony studios". You know, like: Sony/Columbia/TriStar/MGM Pictures.
Without Sony's studio leverage and the PS3, what do Panny/Matsushita and Phillips have? They have another fringe format on their hands, that's what.

It's

Sony Pictures / Columbia Tristar

and

20th Century Fox / MGM

As pointed out elsewhere BD was fundamentally designed to record OTA Japanese broadcasting which uses high bandwidth MPEG2, while we use HDDVR's. In those terms, BD is obsolete in the rest of the world.

CableTV in N.A. still broadcast 19Mbps MPEG2 for new programming. Only older programming is lower bitrate, but still MPEG2.

In fact, people who have personally been playing with HTPC and MPEG2 TS see the advantage of BD-R/RE very clearly. This point is lost on those who do not understand what it going on with these HD streams sitting in HTPCs.

As pointed out elsewhere BD was fundamentally designed to record OTA Japanese broadcasting which uses high bandwidth MPEG2, while we use HDDVR's. In those terms, BD is obsolete in the rest of the world.

No it was not. Blu-ray can record any stream. AVC, VC-1, MPEG-2, it does not matter. Japanese models do not record AVC or VC-1 yet, because all broadcasts are MPEG-2 there. When they will come out in NA they will record AVC. I can record AVC from Dish on PC, put it on Blu-ray and it plays no problem on my Panny BD10.

HD DVD dead in Japan

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070313/buena.htm

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070313/buena06.jpg

Ouch.

Care to tell me where this info comes. I have been searching the web and all I can find is Sony, Sony and SOny behind blu-ray :)


Copyright 2006 Blu-ray Disc Association. All rights reserved. Blu-ray Disc™ and the Blu-ray Disc logo are trademarks of the Blu-ray Disc Association

http://www.blu-raydisc.com You'll find the above on the page linked.


The following is the board of directors, for a full listing go here http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

The Blu-ray Disc Association has member companies from the consumer electronics (CE), information technology (IT), media and software industries. The lists below include current members as well as applicants.

For more information about the various membership levels and how to become a member, please refer to the the About Us section at the top of the screen.


Last updated: March 1, 2007



Board of Directors
Apple, Inc.
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.

Aside froim Sony the highlighted companies are a HUGE part of the CE landscape.


This is not a Sony thing. IT is a consortium of most of the largest CE companies on the planet, not to mention the large PC firms.


Among the CONTRIBUTORS

AMD, Arcsoft, Canon, EA, Fujitsu, Kenwood, Lite-on, NEC, Ricoh, Texas Instruments

Contributors are active participants of the format creation and other key BDA activities. They can be elected to become a member of the Board of Directors. A contributor can attend general meetings and seminars, and can participate in Technical Expert Groups (TEGs), regional Promotion Team activities, and most of the Compliance Committee (CC) activities.

and some selected members

Alpine, BOSE, B&W, Konica-Minolta, Linn, Lenovo, NTT, Nvidia, Onkyo, Realtek, Sanyo, TEAC, DTS, Dolby, THX, Vivendi, Yamaha.

So yeah BD is SONY SONY SONY and SONY. </sarcasm>

Copyright 2006 Blu-ray Disc Association. All rights reserved. Blu-ray Disc™ and the Blu-ray Disc logo are trademarks of the Blu-ray Disc Association

http://www.blu-raydisc.com You'll find the above on the page linked.


The following is the board of directors, for a full listing go here http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

The Blu-ray Disc Association has member companies from the consumer electronics (CE), information technology (IT), media and software industries. The lists below include current members as well as applicants.

For more information about the various membership levels and how to become a member, please refer to the the About Us section at the top of the screen.


Last updated: March 1, 2007



Board of Directors
Apple, Inc.
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.

Aside froim Sony the highlighted companies are a HUGE part of the CE landscape.


This is not a Sony thing. IT is a consortium of most of the largest CE companies on the planet, not to mention the large PC firms.


Among the CONTRIBUTORS

AMD, Arcsoft, Canon, EA, Fujitsu, Kenwood, Lite-on, NEC, Ricoh, Texas Instruments

Contributors are active participants of the format creation and other key BDA activities. They can be elected to become a member of the Board of Directors. A contributor can attend general meetings and seminars, and can participate in Technical Expert Groups (TEGs), regional Promotion Team activities, and most of the Compliance Committee (CC) activities.

and some selected members

Alpine, BOSE, B&W, Konica-Minolta, Linn, Lenovo, NTT, Nvidia, Onkyo, Realtek, Sanyo, TEAC, DTS, Dolby, THX, Vivendi, Yamaha.

So yeah BD is SONY SONY SONY and SONY. </sarcasm>

Excellent point ... Further to that, here is a list of Blu-ray patent holders ...

http://press.xtvworld.com/article17065.html

"...

Participating companies include CyberLink Corporation; Dell Inc.; Hewlett-Packard Company; Hitachi Ltd.; Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.; LG Electronics Inc.; Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic); Mitsubishi Electric Corporation; Pioneer Corporation; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; Sonic Solutions; Sony Corporation; TDK Corporation; Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.; and Warner Home Video Inc.

..."