Since AACS just made it official that it was compromised (read : broken) for both BR and HD-DVD, and since both formats are a very tiny market, I wonder how much longer studios will release titles on the new formats.

Yes I know, BD+ exists for BR. And no, it's not been implemented 'cause it's not finalized AFAIK. So for now at least, BD+ doesn't come into consideration. As for BD-Rom mark, it doesn't address internet distribution of ripped discs, so that is not a factor either.

And AFAIK, DRM itself has basically hurt/killed more formats and the "breaking" of it has not substantially hurt a format.

AACS was only broken in a minor way. They will just revoke the authorization for the software which was leaking keys and continue with their plans.

Since AACS just made it official that it was compromised (read : broken) for both BR and HD-DVD, and since both formats are a very tiny market, I wonder how much longer studios will release titles on the new formats.

Such unauthorized disclosures indicate an attack on one or more players sold by AACS licensees. This development is limited to the compromise of specific implementations, and does not represent an attack on the AACS system itself, nor is it exclusive to any particular format.

Response To Reports of Attacks On AACS Tech (http://www.aacsla.com/home)

DVDs were 'cracked' quite a long time ago; I don't think anyone has held back on releasing new DVDs since then.

Why would HD be any different?

[Echoing Anamorphiac, it seems...]

Since AACS just made it official that it was compromised (read : broken) for both BR and HD-DVD, and since both formats are a very tiny market, I wonder how much longer studios will release titles on the new formats.

Yes I know, BD+ exists for BR. And no, it's not been implemented 'cause it's not finalized AFAIK. So for now at least, BD+ doesn't come into consideration. As for BD-Rom mark, it doesn't address internet distribution of ripped discs, so that is not a factor either.

If need be, they can revoke PC player keys and quit supporting PC playback. I hope that they do not.

It really dosent matter what they do some one somewere will find a way around copy protection. So they should just do the best they can and start rolling out the movies. I hope this isn't why HDDVD is so slow right now.

But I think BR and HDDVD will be around for some time but will not over power DVD for some time. DVD is to strong its over powered any prior format. Changed the way hollywood does movies. Its now how much can we make on the DVD. The theater is just a advertizment...

DVDs were 'cracked' quite a long time ago; I don't think anyone has held back on releasing new DVDs since then.

Why would HD be any different?

[Echoing Anamorphiac, it seems...]

Well, the reason it could be different is that these formats have not reached a critical mass yet. They could halt production and an insignificant number of people would be upset. With CD and DVD, they were too far gone for them to just stop.

Well, the reason it could be different is that these formats have not reached a critical mass yet. They could halt production and an insignificant number of people would be upset. With CD and DVD, they were too far gone for them to just stop.

Exactly my point. BR/HD-DVD are barely a blip on the radar so far.

The one good thing right now is that most people internet's speed makes it a real pain to download between 20 Gb and 30 Gb just for a movie. However this won't be true forever, just as it won't last forever that blank BR/HD-DVD media are cost-prohibitive.

Also, they keep talking about key revocation, however so far they haven't taken any measure of that magnitude, so I'm wondering what's the hold up ? Is key revocation a step that can really be implemented ? Wouldn't that invalidate all the compromised titles that have already been purchased ? Or would that just limit the guilty player/software ? I'm sure people around here with more knowledge of AACS could clear this up...

DVDs were 'cracked' quite a long time ago; I don't think anyone has held back on releasing new DVDs since then.

Why would HD be any different?

[Echoing Anamorphiac, it seems...]

because one of the main desires of the studios that they expect the new formats to fill is to plug that hole. This attack is not the one to show that they will not be able to achieve this, I expect that they will revoke all of the PC players keys and start over.....but it could be the end of HD DVD and BD on XP.....

How many movies are in the Pipeline right now? 300? As far as we know, all of them are now at risk of being ripped and sent to the web! That is not a big enough risk to the Studios? How many need to be available? 20 thousand?
The reality is that this is going to continue no matter what Hollywood does to try and stop it!

Well, the reason it could be different is that these formats have not reached a critical mass yet. They could halt production and an insignificant number of people would be upset. With CD and DVD, they were too far gone for them to just stop.

But what would Hollywood now do in face of plateauing DVD sales? No, Hollywood needs to milk consumers for another round. DVD is totally hacked and that doesn't stop them from releasing movies there. So shall it be with next-gen optical.

The need more new revenue streams and HD is the hook for that. I suppose they could move to online distribution as that new source, which tends to lend itself better to DRM, but even that would eventually be hacked and we are back to where we are now. Not to mention the bandwidth isn't quite there yet to really capitalize on this market for HD. Yes for DVD quality titles, but what is compelling about online DVD when I can just buy (or rent) the actual thing and do what I want with it? There needs to be a hook- and I'm not sure that convience is really enough of one in the movie arena unlike in mp3 (where being able to buy single tracks is really what I think the driver of the popularity of the likes of iTunes happens to be).

Also, they keep talking about key revocation, however so far they haven't taken any measure of that magnitude, so I'm wondering what's the hold up ? Is key revocation a step that can really be implemented ? Wouldn't that invalidate all the compromised titles that have already been purchased ? Or would that just limit the guilty player/software ? I'm sure people around here with more knowledge of AACS could clear this up...

They really can't revoke the volume keys (well, not without pissing off legitamate buyers of software). The only thing they can do is find out which player(s) left the volume keys in the clear and then revoke that player's key (add it to the disk black-list) and maybe sue them if they didn't live up to their end of the security contract. They can't force you to upgrade your non-compliant software player, but then you are limited in watching only older disks that don't have your player blacklisted.

So it will be cat and mouse back and forth between the hackers and AACS. Ultimately AACS will fail because they are encumbered by not pissing off legitimate users and the hackers will out-manuever them. It is really quite amazing how efficient the internet is for disseminating this type of information. One google search and the top links are a list of volume keys for cracked titles...

Well, the reason it could be different is that these formats have not reached a critical mass yet. They could halt production and an insignificant number of people would be upset. With CD and DVD, they were too far gone for them to just stop.

But the whole point of HiDef DVD is to ensure sales growth for the studios in years to come - even with falling DVD sales. If they ditch HiDef DVD - what do they do next ?

But the whole point of HiDef DVD is to ensure sales growth for the studios in years to come - even with falling DVD sales. If they ditch HiDef DVD - what do they do next ?

Maybe scrap the whole thing and come up with a unified format that the mainstream public will actually want to buy into? Oh wait, that actually makes sense. They wouldn't ever do that.

You know, I can copy standard DVD's pretty easily, I don't see manufacturers freaking out and contemplating not making them anymore. I can also run copied games on my 360 and soon on my PS3, do you really think they are going to quit making stuff just because it can be copied?

Maybe scrap the whole thing and come up with a unified format that the mainstream public will actually want to buy into? Oh wait, that actually makes sense. They wouldn't ever do that.

Apart from the (valid !) reason you gave ... it takes too much resource/investment/time to come up with a new format. Remember, there is absolutely no reason why a new DRM won't be circumvented as well ...

As has been stated elsewhere, studios are well aware that a certain amount of pirating will happen and accept the situation, if it is contained (unlike in CD situation).

Apart from the (valid !) reason you gave ... it takes too much resource/investment/time to come up with a new format.
but why a new format? think of how many DL formats there are right now in the works. Yes they all go against what we want (high quality movies). But they are out there right now competing for consumers wallets

but why a new format? think of how many DL formats there are right now in the works. Yes they all go against what we want (high quality movies). But they are out there right now competing for consumers wallets

Yes, but, DL is destined to remain a niche until the "last meter" problem is solved i.e. connection from PC to your HDTV. Right now the only credible options is XBox 360 .... (and thats why the new AppleTV).

If need be, they can revoke PC player keys and quit supporting PC playback. I hope that they do not.

I sure hope not. That would be the end of support for hi-def discs for me. That would really suck. My 1920x1200p doesn't play well with external sources that are 1080p (vertical stretch) and one can't exactingly calibrate. The standalone players cost too much now (got HD DVD drive for $135 and Blu-Ray drive for $350, well, guess PS3 is not too much more, but anyway). Hope I'm not selling off a bunch of drives and discs soon (and taking a bath, since who will really care about the blu-ray drive if it can't play movies, and software would be worthless now). IMO, they would, in the end, lose more by revoking PC playback. Cable is already losing me with the whole cablecard fiasco.

Well, the reason it could be different is that these formats have not reached a critical mass yet. They could halt production and an insignificant number of people would be upset. With CD and DVD, they were too far gone for them to just stop.

otoh, why stop?
what purpose would that serve them?
why go back and support something with inferior quality that is much easier to copy?

Yes, but, DL is destined to remain a niche until the "last meter" problem is solved i.e. connection from PC to your HDTV. Right now the only credible options is XBox 360 .... (and thats why the new AppleTV).

who said HD? I am sure we discussed it enough in the past that you know I don't like the idea of DL. I was just pointing out that if it was only other revenue streams a new format does not need to be built today there are several DL (one worst then the other) being tried today

who said HD? I am sure we discussed it enough in the past that you know I don't like the idea of DL. I was just pointing out that if it was only other revenue streams a new format does not need to be built today there are several DL (one worst then the other) being tried today


I don't think SD downloads will help Studio's revenues much - they will probably eat into DVD sales.

In any case the last meter preblem remains - whether it is SD or HD we are talking about.

AACS was only broken in a minor way.


It hasn't been broken at all afaic. It's just a decryption mechanism - if the players leave the keys freely accessible in memory, that's not the fault of AACS. You wouldn't claim AES has been broken just because somebody left their hotmail account written on a post-it.

AACS was only broken in a minor way.Sounds like being pregnant "in a minor way". No such thing (un)fortunately.

Using a Fort Knox lock on a house built out of straw won't protect the house valuables.
The lock wasn't even touched to break in. And knowing it is using AES-128 it will take a very brave soul to even think about doing it.

Diogen.